RV10-Archive.digest.vol-fb
September 25, 2009 - September 28, 2009
different days/weeks to desulphate and maintain each on board battery. For
those with constant draw items perhaps the charger should be left connected
that battery. Receptacles are $7 each at Radio shack, DC plug also $7. The
plug will have to be connected to the ring accessory cord that is included
with the charger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
Check the following for differences. It appears that the aviation and
Odyssey versions are designed to be idiot proof.
http://www.batteryminders.com/batterycharger/catalog/Aviation-Specific-Maint
enance-Battery-Charger-De-Sulfators-orderby0-p-1-c-249.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
Actually, the manual for that depicts how to connect it to multiple batte
ries at once. Shouldn't be a problem. I believe the way 'lectric Bob has
explained it in the past is that the charger will sense the combined voltag
e but the resistance to charge will vary by the charge level so the battery
needing the charge will take more than the battery with a full charge.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:40 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Chargers
If using the BM 12248, each battery on board will have to be maintained sep
arately, since it appears to need to sense the voltage of the battery. The
easiest way it seems to do this is establish a DC receptacles that uses rin
g terminals across the battery posts. Then alternate as required different
days/weeks to desulphate and maintain each on board battery. For those with
constant draw items perhaps the charger should be left connected that batt
ery. Receptacles are $7 each at Radio shack, DC plug also $7. The plug will
have to be connected to the ring accessory cord that is included with the
charger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flap positioning system |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
For those who have the flap pre-select system: I am at stage to decide
whether I want this system or not. My question is whether it can be adjusted
to select reflex, trail, 1/2 and full flaps? Or can you only get 10, 20, 30
degrees?
Kelly
40866
QB arriving
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
| Subject: | Flap positioning system |
That is exactly what you get - reflex, 0, =BD and full.
Bob
N442PM
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Flap positioning system
For those who have the flap pre-select system: I am at stage to decide whet
her I want this system or not. My question is whether it can be adjusted to
select reflex, trail, 1/2 and full flaps? Or can you only get 10, 20, 30 d
egrees?
Kelly
40866
QB arriving
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap positioning system |
If I did it again I think I would rather have more control over exactly how
much down=C2-flap I could use past zero. At times full is too much and 1
/2 is not enough but I'm just being picky I suppose. I do like the zero set
ting for take off vs. the reflex or -3 degree setting. I've found the diffe
rence being at zero the aircraft just flies off without much back pressure
at all with an overall increase in climb performance. =C2-In the =C2-re
flex=C2-position =C2-you need a bit more pressure to rotate and take of
f.....that extra one inch of pull is wearing me out! The system works great
though.
Rick Sked
N246RS
Flying naked
Painting the pants and fairings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Condrey (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:42:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system
That is exactly what you get =93 reflex, 0, =C2=BD and full.
Bob
N442PM
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Flap positioning system
For those who have the flap pre-select system: I am at stage to decide whet
her I want this system or not. My question is whether it can be adjusted to
select reflex, trail, 1/2 and full flaps? Or can you only get 10, 20, 30 d
egrees?
Kelly
40866
QB arriving =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http
========
===
=== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matron
===
===
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap positioning system |
I see no reason for any more than these 4 settings,
but by cutting a couple more notches you could
add a couple more steps if you really felt it necessary.
The way it flies though, I see no need for any more
than what it has now. I think, but have not
measured, that it's reflex, 0, 15, 25
Tim
Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:
> That is exactly what you get reflex, 0, and full.
>
>
>
> Bob
>
> N442PM
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Kelly McMullen
> *Sent:* Friday, September 25, 2009 1:39 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Flap positioning system
>
>
>
> For those who have the flap pre-select system: I am at stage to decide
> whether I want this system or not. My question is whether it can be
> adjusted to select reflex, trail, 1/2 and full flaps? Or can you only
> get 10, 20, 30 degrees?
> Kelly
> 40866
> QB arriving
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
Multiple batteries at once are fine provided you don't want to leave the
hook up in place and all connected to a single charge point. I have examined
my twin 680 setup which is wired in parallel to use either or both in
starting. If I wire them to the 12248 for multiple charge then the leads to
the second battery must have diodes to prevent "charge leveling" when the
charger is not connected ; hence the charger will not sense the voltage of
the second battery when connected.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers
Actually, the manual for that depicts how to connect it to multiple
batteries at once. Shouldn't be a problem. I believe the way 'lectric Bob
has explained it in the past is that the charger will sense the combined
voltage but the resistance to charge will vary by the charge level so the
battery needing the charge will take more than the battery with a full
charge.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:40 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Chargers
If using the BM 12248, each battery on board will have to be maintained
separately, since it appears to need to sense the voltage of the battery.
The easiest way it seems to do this is establish a DC receptacles that uses
ring terminals across the battery posts. Then alternate as required
different days/weeks to desulphate and maintain each on board battery. For
those with constant draw items perhaps the charger should be left connected
that battery. Receptacles are $7 each at Radio shack, DC plug also $7. The
plug will have to be connected to the ring accessory cord that is included
with the charger.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cumins" <jcumins(at)jcis.net> |
| Subject: | Flap positioning system |
Rick
Sounds like you need to life weights then hehehe, worn our all of us
still pounding rivits are worn out, LOL
I will look you up next time I am in LAS
Fly safe
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap positioning system
If I did it again I think I would rather have more control over exactly
how much down flap I could use past zero. At times full is too much and
1/2 is not enough but I'm just being picky I suppose. I do like the zero
setting for take off vs. the reflex or -3 degree setting. I've found the
difference being at zero the aircraft just flies off without much back
pressure at all with an overall increase in climb performance. In the
reflex position you need a bit more pressure to rotate and take
off.....that extra one inch of pull is wearing me out! The system works
great though.
Rick Sked
N246RS
Flying naked
Painting the pants and fairings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Condrey (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:42:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
Pacific
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system
That is exactly what you get =93 reflex, 0, =C2=BD and full.
Bob
N442PM
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Flap positioning system
For those who have the flap pre-select system: I am at stage to decide
whether I want this system or not. My question is whether it can be
adjusted to select reflex, trail, 1/2 and full flaps? Or can you only
get 10, 20, 30 degrees?
Kelly
40866
QB arriving
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flap positioning system |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks everyone...exactly what I needed to know.
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I see no reason for any more than these 4 settings,
> but by cutting a couple more notches you could
> add a couple more steps if you really felt it necessary.
> The way it flies though, I see no need for any more
> than what it has now. I think, but have not
> measured, that it's reflex, 0, 15, 25
>
> Tim
>
>
> Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:
>
>> That is exactly what you get ' reflex, 0, =BD and full.
>>
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> N442PM
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Flap positioning system |
Ok for the people that don=99t have the FPS or have not used it
yet. One point of order. You can put your flaps at any setting from -3
degrees to full (?25 degrees). All you have to do is go down to the
preset (anyone), then hit the up switch until it is at the desired
setting.
Now, after 100 hours I have not needed to do that because my empty
weight CG is further aft than the Vans aircraft. But when I was doing
my transition training, I was taught to put the flaps down, then bring
them up just a little, or else you run out of elevator trim for
landing
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap positioning system
If I did it again I think I would rather have more control over exactly
how much down flap I could use past zero. At times full is too much and
1/2 is not enough but I'm just being picky I suppose. I do like the zero
setting for take off vs. the reflex or -3 degree setting. I've found the
difference being at zero the aircraft just flies off without much back
pressure at all with an overall increase in climb performance. In the
reflex position you need a bit more pressure to rotate and take
off.....that extra one inch of pull is wearing me out! The system works
great though.
Rick Sked
N246RS
Flying naked
Painting the pants and fairings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Condrey (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:42:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
Pacific
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system
That is exactly what you get =93 reflex, 0, =C2=BD and full.
Bob
N442PM
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Flap positioning system
For those who have the flap pre-select system: I am at stage to decide
whether I want this system or not. My question is whether it can be
adjusted to select reflex, trail, 1/2 and full flaps? Or can you only
get 10, 20, 30 degrees?
Kelly
40866
QB arriving
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
I went to the Battery Minder manufacturer site and looked at the available
tech manuals. There are about 4 aviation specific options for the battery
models. These are idiot proof. The Odyssey specific model always uses the 8A
option and battery type selection is fixed. Therefore making a mistake
charging an Odyssey battery is not possible. Buy the 12248 standard model
and press the correct buttons; its cheaper.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
| Subject: | Flap positioning system |
During transition training Alex D. demonstrated that it actually takes abou
t 200-300 feet more roll on takeoff if in reflex instead of 0.
Bob
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap positioning system
If I did it again I think I would rather have more control over exactly how
much down flap I could use past zero. At times full is too much and 1/2 is
not enough but I'm just being picky I suppose. I do like the zero setting
for take off vs. the reflex or -3 degree setting. I've found the difference
being at zero the aircraft just flies off without much back pressure at al
l with an overall increase in climb performance. In the reflex position you
need a bit more pressure to rotate and take off.....that extra one inch of
pull is wearing me out! The system works great though.
Rick Sked
N246RS
Flying naked
Painting the pants and fairings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Condrey (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:42:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system
That is exactly what you get - reflex, 0, =BD and full.
Bob
N442PM
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Flap positioning system
For those who have the flap pre-select system: I am at stage to decide whet
her I want this system or not. My question is whether it can be adjusted to
select reflex, trail, 1/2 and full flaps? Or can you only get 10, 20, 30 d
egrees?
Kelly
40866
QB arriving
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <karolamy(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions |
Did my BFR this week in the 6A and spent some ground time with a G1000
system, thus renewing my enthusiasm for installing a G 900 in the 10. I
know as a group we are fortunate to now have several 900 drivers out there -
Robin, Gary, and more! For those of us still contemplating panel choices
would you guys please let us know what the fees ( costs in subscriptions,
XM, etc) are in keeping this 900 going and up to date. Also, what is the
mininum cost one may need to look forword to in VFR vrs IFR. Details would
sure be helpful like: "Charts and plates are $XXX, XM weather is $XXX,
traffic is $XXX, Other is $XXX - all per month. My annual fees are about
$XXX". Do you have NAV-WRX etc?
Appreciate any input from you guys! Thanks so much.
Rich
RV-6A 1000 hours
RV-10 Finishing kit - gear & wheel fairings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> |
Rich,
I am just going through the update process / potential
nightmare. I can't say enough good things about how the GH900X performs
especially with the SVT (synthetic terrain), TIS Traffic (where
available) and XM WX (plus Audio).
First the Fees. If you want to be completely up to date all the
time here are the fees. I didn't write down the individual fees as the
annual fees are 2-3 times the price for 10-13 times the data. Data is
provided by two (2) different companies through Three (3) different
delivery systems (of course).
DataBase Costs:
Jeppesen 800-553-7750/303-799-9090
Airport/Nav/Freq/Waypoint Data etc = $410.00 full US (annual) (partial
US is about $300)
Garmin Data (annual):
Safe Taxi $195
Obstacles $195
Flight Charts $395
~$800.00 Total
Terrain $150 Occasional Random Updates ~1.5-2 years
Assuming random & occasional Terrain updates the total annual DB update
is $410 + $800 = $1,210.00/year. Depending on the type of flying you do
you may be able to save by postponing Safe Taxi which is a tremendous
feature but I am unsure how critical these small changes are over the
years relative to the costs. PLEASE no flaming me, just a suggestion to
save a few $ for some that have regular commutes.
Obviously the two different companies are Jeppesen & Garmin and the
Download process is simple from Jeppesen and simple for Garmin but from
two different places "MyGarmin.com" for technical manuals, System
Updates etc... and Fly.Garmin.com for purchasing & downloading
Taxi/Obstacles/Charts.
Unfortunately there are some issues I am having with Garmin that border
on disturbing. The knowledgeable technical support is near non-existent.
When you call Garmin they answer with minimal hold times. GREAT! You
explain your issues completely and then they tell you they can't answer
your question and transfer you to a Field Service Representative that
SHOULD be versed in the G900X. You explain one more time your issue and
they hem and haw and tell you that you should really speak with the
G900X expert Tim. They transfer you to Tim whom I suspect it the most
overworked person at Garmin and with any luck he will answer your
questions but he is rarely available on the phone and will usually email
you back. Now Tim is excellent, knowledgeable and very friendly but he
seems to be the only person qualified to help. Let me give you a recent
example of some frustrating Garmin processes.
Initially my Garmin would not speak with my ($10,000) Sorcerer AP for
flying a heading. You could set & adjust the heading on the AP and it
would fly but not set or change it on the G900X and have it speak to the
AP to fly that heading. I spoke with Tim via email and after some
research we discovered that a recent System Software version addressed
the issue and all I had to do was upgrade the System Software (here
after SS = System Software) I had 006-00718-04 and needed to upgrade to
006-00718-05. Problem solved... Right... Well not exactly. How the
%(*&^@$! do you update the SS? Obviously you look in the 500 page Pilots
Guide. Fortunately it's in PDF form so after reading it front to back
again and looking for the procedure I contacted Tim who told me I would
find the procedure in the Installation Manual. Cool... All relevant
documents are housed at MyGarmin.com so I downloaded the Installation
Manual (hereafter IM) and read all 500 pages with not a word on
installing the SS. Geezzzz. I called Tim again and he emailed me that
the instructions were in section 15.1.2. Ohhhh that explains it, my IM
ends at 14.something.something. At this point I don't really feel I need
to control the Heading from the Heading knob on the Garmin. But I press
on. I ask Tim why I don't automatically have the latest IM in MyGarmin
as that is the place Garmin automatically updates all owners documents
so everyone is current. Apparently they have a few glitches on the auto
document population process. How much is this G900X again? I get the
latest IM and go straight to section 15.1.2 and start reading the SS
install process. The actual loading of the SS SEEMS pretty straight
forward with the exception of the 3rd paragraph where you are instructed
to clear all User Settings. Sounds innocent enough, User Settings
(hereafter U-S). The U-S are all your saved flight plans, all your
customized PFD/MFD settings and all your calibrations. WHAT? All your
calibrations??? That includes fuel, trim, flap etc... That has to be
wrong. There is no way Garmin would have you clear those w/o a way to
save and reinstall these settings. As part of the G900X purchase
included is a Certified G900X technician to calibrate and approve the
install at your location. As I was one of the first Tim and another tech
spent 2 days getting my system up and running and had to come back one
more time as they didn't have a tool to test some avionics required.
That is a 3 day out of town visit to approve the system and now they
want you to wipe out all the settings for a simple system upgrade.
Now granted the System Upgrades are fantastic as they keep adding
features like CHT/EGT data logging, moving items around based on user
suggestions etc... but no way can I wipe out the calibrations. There
must be some mistake but I am still waiting for an answer before I wipe
out all those settings. Did I mention I am still waiting?
As a user interface systems designer all these processes sure seem
unfriendly compared to how they could have been designed with what
amounts to a system like we have on some of our smart phones but
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (picture John Belushi) this is more DOS like for some
unthinkable reason. Game of Pong anyone?
Since this issue is not resolved I am reserving judgment on the
data/calibrations loss problem till I have final word but as you can
tell from my experience so far simple answers are not readily available.
My one BIG piece of security is that this is a Garmin product and I am
sure they will be around vs. spending a bucket full of $ and having it
go all OP on me. You know me.... Mr. Glass Half Full...
One more thing. I know Tim has found a way to keep his Chelton up to
date for a fraction of what the Garmin/Jeppersen people are spending.
Including purchasing a lifetime deal on some updates that is impossible
to beat.
I have more to say but I am heading to the airport for a night flight
back to SBP.
Robin
-----Original Message -----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
karolamy(at)roadrunner.com
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:41 PM
Subject: RV10-List: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions
Did my BFR this week in the 6A and spent some ground time with a G1000
system, thus renewing my enthusiasm for installing a G 900 in the 10. I
know as a group we are fortunate to now have several 900 drivers out
there -
Robin, Gary, and more! For those of us still contemplating panel
choices
would you guys please let us know what the fees ( costs in
subscriptions,
XM, etc) are in keeping this 900 going and up to date. Also, what is
the
mininum cost one may need to look forword to in VFR vrs IFR. Details
would
sure be helpful like: "Charts and plates are $XXX, XM weather is $XXX,
traffic is $XXX, Other is $XXX - all per month. My annual fees are
about
$XXX". Do you have NAV-WRX etc?
Appreciate any input from you guys! Thanks so much.
Rich
RV-6A 1000 hours
RV-10 Finishing kit - gear & wheel fairings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Leikam" <daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions |
Keep blazin' the trails Robin...
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA
Muskego, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 8:16 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions
>
> Rich,
> I am just going through the update process / potential
> nightmare. I can't say enough good things about how the GH900X performs
> especially with the SVT (synthetic terrain), TIS Traffic (where
> available) and XM WX (plus Audio).
> First the Fees. If you want to be completely up to date all the
> time here are the fees. I didn't write down the individual fees as the
> annual fees are 2-3 times the price for 10-13 times the data. Data is
> provided by two (2) different companies through Three (3) different
> delivery systems (of course).
>
> DataBase Costs:
>
> Jeppesen 800-553-7750/303-799-9090
> Airport/Nav/Freq/Waypoint Data etc = $410.00 full US (annual) (partial
> US is about $300)
>
> Garmin Data (annual):
> Safe Taxi $195
> Obstacles $195
> Flight Charts $395
> ~$800.00 Total
>
> Terrain $150 Occasional Random Updates ~1.5-2 years
>
> Assuming random & occasional Terrain updates the total annual DB update
> is $410 + $800 = $1,210.00/year. Depending on the type of flying you do
> you may be able to save by postponing Safe Taxi which is a tremendous
> feature but I am unsure how critical these small changes are over the
> years relative to the costs. PLEASE no flaming me, just a suggestion to
> save a few $ for some that have regular commutes.
>
> Obviously the two different companies are Jeppesen & Garmin and the
> Download process is simple from Jeppesen and simple for Garmin but from
> two different places "MyGarmin.com" for technical manuals, System
> Updates etc... and Fly.Garmin.com for purchasing & downloading
> Taxi/Obstacles/Charts.
>
> Unfortunately there are some issues I am having with Garmin that border
> on disturbing. The knowledgeable technical support is near non-existent.
> When you call Garmin they answer with minimal hold times. GREAT! You
> explain your issues completely and then they tell you they can't answer
> your question and transfer you to a Field Service Representative that
> SHOULD be versed in the G900X. You explain one more time your issue and
> they hem and haw and tell you that you should really speak with the
> G900X expert Tim. They transfer you to Tim whom I suspect it the most
> overworked person at Garmin and with any luck he will answer your
> questions but he is rarely available on the phone and will usually email
> you back. Now Tim is excellent, knowledgeable and very friendly but he
> seems to be the only person qualified to help. Let me give you a recent
> example of some frustrating Garmin processes.
>
> Initially my Garmin would not speak with my ($10,000) Sorcerer AP for
> flying a heading. You could set & adjust the heading on the AP and it
> would fly but not set or change it on the G900X and have it speak to the
> AP to fly that heading. I spoke with Tim via email and after some
> research we discovered that a recent System Software version addressed
> the issue and all I had to do was upgrade the System Software (here
> after SS = System Software) I had 006-00718-04 and needed to upgrade to
> 006-00718-05. Problem solved... Right... Well not exactly. How the
> %(*&^@$! do you update the SS? Obviously you look in the 500 page Pilots
> Guide. Fortunately it's in PDF form so after reading it front to back
> again and looking for the procedure I contacted Tim who told me I would
> find the procedure in the Installation Manual. Cool... All relevant
> documents are housed at MyGarmin.com so I downloaded the Installation
> Manual (hereafter IM) and read all 500 pages with not a word on
> installing the SS. Geezzzz. I called Tim again and he emailed me that
> the instructions were in section 15.1.2. Ohhhh that explains it, my IM
> ends at 14.something.something. At this point I don't really feel I need
> to control the Heading from the Heading knob on the Garmin. But I press
> on. I ask Tim why I don't automatically have the latest IM in MyGarmin
> as that is the place Garmin automatically updates all owners documents
> so everyone is current. Apparently they have a few glitches on the auto
> document population process. How much is this G900X again? I get the
> latest IM and go straight to section 15.1.2 and start reading the SS
> install process. The actual loading of the SS SEEMS pretty straight
> forward with the exception of the 3rd paragraph where you are instructed
> to clear all User Settings. Sounds innocent enough, User Settings
> (hereafter U-S). The U-S are all your saved flight plans, all your
> customized PFD/MFD settings and all your calibrations. WHAT? All your
> calibrations??? That includes fuel, trim, flap etc... That has to be
> wrong. There is no way Garmin would have you clear those w/o a way to
> save and reinstall these settings. As part of the G900X purchase
> included is a Certified G900X technician to calibrate and approve the
> install at your location. As I was one of the first Tim and another tech
> spent 2 days getting my system up and running and had to come back one
> more time as they didn't have a tool to test some avionics required.
> That is a 3 day out of town visit to approve the system and now they
> want you to wipe out all the settings for a simple system upgrade.
> Now granted the System Upgrades are fantastic as they keep adding
> features like CHT/EGT data logging, moving items around based on user
> suggestions etc... but no way can I wipe out the calibrations. There
> must be some mistake but I am still waiting for an answer before I wipe
> out all those settings. Did I mention I am still waiting?
>
> As a user interface systems designer all these processes sure seem
> unfriendly compared to how they could have been designed with what
> amounts to a system like we have on some of our smart phones but
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (picture John Belushi) this is more DOS like for some
> unthinkable reason. Game of Pong anyone?
>
> Since this issue is not resolved I am reserving judgment on the
> data/calibrations loss problem till I have final word but as you can
> tell from my experience so far simple answers are not readily available.
>
>
> My one BIG piece of security is that this is a Garmin product and I am
> sure they will be around vs. spending a bucket full of $ and having it
> go all OP on me. You know me.... Mr. Glass Half Full...
>
> One more thing. I know Tim has found a way to keep his Chelton up to
> date for a fraction of what the Garmin/Jeppersen people are spending.
> Including purchasing a lifetime deal on some updates that is impossible
> to beat.
>
> I have more to say but I am heading to the airport for a night flight
> back to SBP.
>
> Robin
>
>
> -----Original Message -----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> karolamy(at)roadrunner.com
> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:41 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions
>
>
> Did my BFR this week in the 6A and spent some ground time with a G1000
> system, thus renewing my enthusiasm for installing a G 900 in the 10. I
>
> know as a group we are fortunate to now have several 900 drivers out
> there -
> Robin, Gary, and more! For those of us still contemplating panel
> choices
> would you guys please let us know what the fees ( costs in
> subscriptions,
> XM, etc) are in keeping this 900 going and up to date. Also, what is
> the
> mininum cost one may need to look forword to in VFR vrs IFR. Details
> would
> sure be helpful like: "Charts and plates are $XXX, XM weather is $XXX,
>
> traffic is $XXX, Other is $XXX - all per month. My annual fees are
> about
> $XXX". Do you have NAV-WRX etc?
> Appreciate any input from you guys! Thanks so much.
>
> Rich
> RV-6A 1000 hours
> RV-10 Finishing kit - gear & wheel fairings
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions |
One clarification on the updates that Robin is referring to that
I do for the Chelton... I pay about $500/yr I think for
the updates for my GNS-480 and my Chelton systems combined.
This is NavData, and obstructions. From time to time I guess
they have Terrain updates but as terrain rarely changes, I've
never actually had one. I don't have smart taxi, or charts on
the system. The lifetime deal that he talked about was actually
a one-time promo that Voyager ran for the first 100 customers
to reply to an email offer.....a lifetime of EFB chart
subscription for $600. So, for charts, I use Voyager, which
has Geo-referenced WAC/TAC/SECTIONAL/IFR(low and high) charts
and geo-referenced approach plates, all integrated to GPS to
plot your position...and I use it on an older LE1600 with a
SSD. For me, that works perfectly for what I need for approaches.
The chelton contains most of the info I need, but usually you
still have to look up the minimums for the approach, so
after a quick look at the plate, I can usually just fly it
without the tablet if I choose to. In fact, now that I've
grown attached at the hip to my iphone with Foreflight, I
lately have just been looking at the approach plate on that,
for all of my practice...saving the tablet for those real
IFR times. The Voyager deal was a 1-time thing, so for most
people you'll have an annual subscription just like I used
to for a couple years....but for all the charts you get,
there's not any more effective way to carry all the
charts and have all that function. Voyager even has HITS.
They have a new promo going too, where you can buy a whole
pre-loaded tablet for something like $1000 that comes with
the software and everything, and a 3 month sub. It looks to
be a great way to start it. The only caveat is, no matter
what you do for a PC in the plane, definitely do it with
a SSD hard drive. Far superior for what we do.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
Robin Marks wrote:
>
> Rich,
> I am just going through the update process / potential
> nightmare. I can't say enough good things about how the GH900X performs
> especially with the SVT (synthetic terrain), TIS Traffic (where
> available) and XM WX (plus Audio).
> First the Fees. If you want to be completely up to date all the
> time here are the fees. I didn't write down the individual fees as the
> annual fees are 2-3 times the price for 10-13 times the data. Data is
> provided by two (2) different companies through Three (3) different
> delivery systems (of course).
>
> DataBase Costs:
>
> Jeppesen 800-553-7750/303-799-9090
> Airport/Nav/Freq/Waypoint Data etc = $410.00 full US (annual) (partial
> US is about $300)
>
> Garmin Data (annual):
> Safe Taxi $195
> Obstacles $195
> Flight Charts $395
> ~$800.00 Total
>
> Terrain $150 Occasional Random Updates ~1.5-2 years
>
> Assuming random & occasional Terrain updates the total annual DB update
> is $410 + $800 = $1,210.00/year. Depending on the type of flying you do
> you may be able to save by postponing Safe Taxi which is a tremendous
> feature but I am unsure how critical these small changes are over the
> years relative to the costs. PLEASE no flaming me, just a suggestion to
> save a few $ for some that have regular commutes.
>
> Obviously the two different companies are Jeppesen & Garmin and the
> Download process is simple from Jeppesen and simple for Garmin but from
> two different places "MyGarmin.com" for technical manuals, System
> Updates etc... and Fly.Garmin.com for purchasing & downloading
> Taxi/Obstacles/Charts.
>
> Unfortunately there are some issues I am having with Garmin that border
> on disturbing. The knowledgeable technical support is near non-existent.
> When you call Garmin they answer with minimal hold times. GREAT! You
> explain your issues completely and then they tell you they can't answer
> your question and transfer you to a Field Service Representative that
> SHOULD be versed in the G900X. You explain one more time your issue and
> they hem and haw and tell you that you should really speak with the
> G900X expert Tim. They transfer you to Tim whom I suspect it the most
> overworked person at Garmin and with any luck he will answer your
> questions but he is rarely available on the phone and will usually email
> you back. Now Tim is excellent, knowledgeable and very friendly but he
> seems to be the only person qualified to help. Let me give you a recent
> example of some frustrating Garmin processes.
>
> Initially my Garmin would not speak with my ($10,000) Sorcerer AP for
> flying a heading. You could set & adjust the heading on the AP and it
> would fly but not set or change it on the G900X and have it speak to the
> AP to fly that heading. I spoke with Tim via email and after some
> research we discovered that a recent System Software version addressed
> the issue and all I had to do was upgrade the System Software (here
> after SS = System Software) I had 006-00718-04 and needed to upgrade to
> 006-00718-05. Problem solved... Right... Well not exactly. How the
> %(*&^@$! do you update the SS? Obviously you look in the 500 page Pilots
> Guide. Fortunately it's in PDF form so after reading it front to back
> again and looking for the procedure I contacted Tim who told me I would
> find the procedure in the Installation Manual. Cool... All relevant
> documents are housed at MyGarmin.com so I downloaded the Installation
> Manual (hereafter IM) and read all 500 pages with not a word on
> installing the SS. Geezzzz. I called Tim again and he emailed me that
> the instructions were in section 15.1.2. Ohhhh that explains it, my IM
> ends at 14.something.something. At this point I don't really feel I need
> to control the Heading from the Heading knob on the Garmin. But I press
> on. I ask Tim why I don't automatically have the latest IM in MyGarmin
> as that is the place Garmin automatically updates all owners documents
> so everyone is current. Apparently they have a few glitches on the auto
> document population process. How much is this G900X again? I get the
> latest IM and go straight to section 15.1.2 and start reading the SS
> install process. The actual loading of the SS SEEMS pretty straight
> forward with the exception of the 3rd paragraph where you are instructed
> to clear all User Settings. Sounds innocent enough, User Settings
> (hereafter U-S). The U-S are all your saved flight plans, all your
> customized PFD/MFD settings and all your calibrations. WHAT? All your
> calibrations??? That includes fuel, trim, flap etc... That has to be
> wrong. There is no way Garmin would have you clear those w/o a way to
> save and reinstall these settings. As part of the G900X purchase
> included is a Certified G900X technician to calibrate and approve the
> install at your location. As I was one of the first Tim and another tech
> spent 2 days getting my system up and running and had to come back one
> more time as they didn't have a tool to test some avionics required.
> That is a 3 day out of town visit to approve the system and now they
> want you to wipe out all the settings for a simple system upgrade.
> Now granted the System Upgrades are fantastic as they keep adding
> features like CHT/EGT data logging, moving items around based on user
> suggestions etc... but no way can I wipe out the calibrations. There
> must be some mistake but I am still waiting for an answer before I wipe
> out all those settings. Did I mention I am still waiting?
>
> As a user interface systems designer all these processes sure seem
> unfriendly compared to how they could have been designed with what
> amounts to a system like we have on some of our smart phones but
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (picture John Belushi) this is more DOS like for some
> unthinkable reason. Game of Pong anyone?
>
> Since this issue is not resolved I am reserving judgment on the
> data/calibrations loss problem till I have final word but as you can
> tell from my experience so far simple answers are not readily available.
>
>
> My one BIG piece of security is that this is a Garmin product and I am
> sure they will be around vs. spending a bucket full of $ and having it
> go all OP on me. You know me.... Mr. Glass Half Full...
>
> One more thing. I know Tim has found a way to keep his Chelton up to
> date for a fraction of what the Garmin/Jeppersen people are spending.
> Including purchasing a lifetime deal on some updates that is impossible
> to beat.
>
> I have more to say but I am heading to the airport for a night flight
> back to SBP.
>
> Robin
>
>
> -----Original Message -----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> karolamy(at)roadrunner.com
> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:41 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions
>
>
> Did my BFR this week in the 6A and spent some ground time with a G1000
> system, thus renewing my enthusiasm for installing a G 900 in the 10. I
>
> know as a group we are fortunate to now have several 900 drivers out
> there -
> Robin, Gary, and more! For those of us still contemplating panel
> choices
> would you guys please let us know what the fees ( costs in
> subscriptions,
> XM, etc) are in keeping this 900 going and up to date. Also, what is
> the
> mininum cost one may need to look forword to in VFR vrs IFR. Details
> would
> sure be helpful like: "Charts and plates are $XXX, XM weather is $XXX,
>
> traffic is $XXX, Other is $XXX - all per month. My annual fees are
> about
> $XXX". Do you have NAV-WRX etc?
> Appreciate any input from you guys! Thanks so much.
>
> Rich
> RV-6A 1000 hours
> RV-10 Finishing kit - gear & wheel fairings
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)MSN.COM> |
| Subject: | Flap positioning system |
If you take off with the flaps in reflex and you have a problem that makes
you need to go slow as in engine failure=2C you will tip stall your wing in
stead of allowing the inner portion of the wing to stall first. This would
not be a good thing. At least with sailplane design and other aircraft=2C
tip stalling the wing is a bad thing.
JOhn G
From: bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com
Date: Fri=2C 25 Sep 2009 13:41:25 -0700
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system
During transition training Alex D. demonstrated that it actually takes abou
t 200-300 feet more roll on takeoff if in reflex instead of 0.
Bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: Friday=2C September 25=2C 2009 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap positioning system
If I did it again I think I would rather have more control over exactly how
much down flap I could use past zero. At times full is too much and 1/2 is
not enough but I'm just being picky I suppose. I do like the zero setting
for take off vs. the reflex or -3 degree setting. I've found the difference
being at zero the aircraft just flies off without much back pressure at al
l with an overall increase in climb performance. In the reflex position you
need a bit more pressure to rotate and take off.....that extra one inch of
pull is wearing me out! The system works great though.
Rick Sked
N246RS
Flying naked
Painting the pants and fairings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Condrey (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Sent: Friday=2C September 25=2C 2009 11:42:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacif
ic
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system
That is exactly what you get ' reflex=2C 0=2C =BD and full.
Bob
N442PM
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday=2C September 25=2C 2009 1:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Flap positioning system
For those who have the flap pre-select system: I am at stage to decide whet
her I want this system or not. My question is whether it can be adjusted to
select reflex=2C trail=2C 1/2 and full flaps? Or can you only get 10=2C 20
=2C 30 degrees?
Kelly
40866
QB arriving http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matr
onics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution get=_blank>http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listp://forums.matronics.comblank>http://www.mat
ronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp:
//forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Ninety bucks more for less? I don't think so. I guessing we'll soon see the Aviation
version of the Big Mac for $10....
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine & Panel
delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265084#265084
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone |
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
Getting ready to attach the QB fuselage to my tail cone.
Section 29-2 describes drilling #30 pilot holes for the longeron
attachment using the template provided.
The only issue is that the QB doesn't come with this template, so I have
no clue where to drill these attachment holes.
I know someone else has ran into this issue before me.
Anyone get word from Vans on their proper location?
Thanks,
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone |
I just measured mine, which were drilled using the template. The most
aft
hole is centered about 7/16=94 from the aft end of the longeron. Each
of the
other holes appear to be on =BE=94 centers going forward.
I don=92t think the precise location is critical as long as appropriate
spacing is provided. Btw, you=92ll be taking these bolts on and off
multiple
times later on during the build, so don=92t torque seal them quite yet.
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 9:28 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone
Getting ready to attach the QB fuselage to my tail cone.
Section 29-2 describes drilling #30 pilot holes for the longeron
attachment
using the template provided.
The only issue is that the QB doesn=92t come with this template, so I
have no
clue where to drill these attachment holes.
I know someone else has ran into this issue before me.
Anyone get word from Vans on their proper location?
Thanks,
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
I would affirm Bob's observation. The position need not be exact. Just make sure
that you are centered on the longerons so that you can get the nut on the bolt
(and the bolt tightened). Use the proper spacing to maintain the structural
integrity of the union. Note the position of the rivets that go in on a perpendicular
angle. You have to remove the bolts and nuts to get those rivets in
later, or go with a pop rivet which is ugly.
--------
OSH '10 or Bust
Q/B Kit - phase 1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265105#265105
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flap positioning system |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
I like it. I flew in another RV10 that does not have it. It is not really a big
deal to just set the flaps manually. Still, I like the simplicity of the system.
It is easy to install - uncomplicated to operate and relatively foolproof.
I also installed a little Ray Allen sensor (the 1.2" model) that shows the flaps
position on my AFS3500 EFIS. My only note is that the change on the indicated
position on the EFIS from reflex to 0 degrees is too small to show an indication
on the EFIS.
--------
OSH '10 or Bust
Q/B Kit - phase 1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265107#265107
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone |
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
Thanks for the help Bob and Mike!
Can you tell how they determined the center line of the angle?
Does it look like they determined the center line by finding center on
the interior side of the angle or the exterior side?
The angle is 3/4" x 3/4" and 1/8" thick.
If they measured on the exterior and then drilled, the hole moves closer
to the bend by 1/8".
Thanks again......
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: AirMike [mailto:Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net]
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 9:56 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone
I would affirm Bob's observation. The position need not be exact. Just
make sure that you are centered on the longerons so that you can get the
nut on the bolt (and the bolt tightened). Use the proper spacing to
maintain the structural integrity of the union. Note the position of the
rivets that go in on a perpendicular angle. You have to remove the bolts
and nuts to get those rivets in later, or go with a pop rivet which is
ugly.
--------
OSH '10 or Bust
Q/B Kit - phase 1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265105#265105
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone |
It will be late tonight before I can measure. I would center on the
interior side, since you need to ensure spacing for the washer.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone
Thanks for the help Bob and Mike!
Can you tell how they determined the center line of the angle?
Does it look like they determined the center line by finding center on
the interior side of the angle or the exterior side?
The angle is 3/4" x 3/4" and 1/8" thick.
If they measured on the exterior and then drilled, the hole moves closer
to the bend by 1/8".
Thanks again......
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: AirMike [mailto:Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net]
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 9:56 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone
I would affirm Bob's observation. The position need not be exact. Just
make sure that you are centered on the longerons so that you can get the
nut on the bolt (and the bolt tightened). Use the proper spacing to
maintain the structural integrity of the union. Note the position of the
rivets that go in on a perpendicular angle. You have to remove the bolts
and nuts to get those rivets in later, or go with a pop rivet which is
ugly.
--------
OSH '10 or Bust
Q/B Kit - phase 1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265105#265105
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone |
I was able to make the measurements before I left. My holes are centered on
the outside of the angle, 3/8" from the inside edge of the longeron.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 2:07 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone
It will be late tonight before I can measure. I would center on the
interior side, since you need to ensure spacing for the washer.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone
Thanks for the help Bob and Mike!
Can you tell how they determined the center line of the angle?
Does it look like they determined the center line by finding center on
the interior side of the angle or the exterior side?
The angle is 3/4" x 3/4" and 1/8" thick.
If they measured on the exterior and then drilled, the hole moves closer
to the bend by 1/8".
Thanks again......
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: AirMike [mailto:Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net]
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 9:56 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone
I would affirm Bob's observation. The position need not be exact. Just
make sure that you are centered on the longerons so that you can get the
nut on the bolt (and the bolt tightened). Use the proper spacing to
maintain the structural integrity of the union. Note the position of the
rivets that go in on a perpendicular angle. You have to remove the bolts
and nuts to get those rivets in later, or go with a pop rivet which is
ugly.
--------
OSH '10 or Bust
Q/B Kit - phase 1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265105#265105
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <karolamy(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions |
Thank you so much Robin and Tim. Your input helps greatly. Robin, I feel
for you and sure would like to hear how your situation with Garmin, the SS,
& calibrations comes out! Hang in there and keep us posted. If this is
the same (Garmin) Tim that I met @ OSH, I agree he sure seems like a
knowledgeable and nice fellow, but we are looking for proper problem
resolution here, right?
Thanks so much again for some great helpful posts,
Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move |
Tim,
-Thats not exactly right. when you have fuel or liquid mix with vapor or
air,pass by a volume of air you will see a change in pressure due to the co
mpression of the air. That's why you see fluxuation in pressure gauges.
-If you worked in the oil and gas business you see this all the time in p
ipelines. If you look at a trouble shooting manual for this, one of the rea
sons you see fluxuation in gauges due to vapor in the line and one of the f
irst thing it tells you is to get the air out.
-So what I was getting at is the gas(vapor) is getting into the line goin
g to the gauge so as other vapor mixed with fuel passes by your gauge line
it changes press due to compression of the vapor.
-
-
Patrick Thyssen
still learning
--- On Thu, 9/24/09, Tim Olson wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 11:41 PM
Pressure is pressure, it's just the compressibility that is
different.- If the vapor were at 50psi, it would push
down on the fuel at 50psi, and up on the fuel pressure
sender at 50psi, and the fuel would transfer that pressure
to the engine at 50psi.- Doesn't matter if it's vapor, or
what is in the line...it's just a diaphragm that is
displaying pressure.- Think of a manometer..it's using
air and liquid to show air pressure, but inside the
manometer is both air and liquid.- It's all the same when
it's pushing out against something else.- If you have a
pot of steaming water and you plug it, the steam will
build up pressure, and if you puncture the bottom of
the pot, the water will come out at whatever pressure
the steam is at.
So no, it shouldn't have an effect on the pressure reading.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
Patrick Thyssen wrote:
> One thing I have just thought about and correct me if I'm wrong. From the
fuel pump to the fuel pressure sending unit is up hill or above the fuel p
ump. This being said if you get air in your hoses going to your pressure tr
ansducer from- being hot [vapor] then you could have a problem as to what
it is reporting.
> By having a compression of air instead of solid liquid.
>- Lets hear from the engineers.
>
> Patrick Thyssen
> Engine pickled again!!! for new instrument panel
>- Oh how I love OP
>
> --- On *Thu, 9/24/09, McGann, Ron //* wrot
e:
>
>
>- ---From: McGann, Ron <Ron.McGann(at)thalesgroup.com.au>
>- ---Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
>- ---To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>- ---Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 5:28 PM
>
>- ---
>
>- ---Only 40 hours but same experience as Marcus.- Only irreglua
rity comes
>- ---when the boost pump is engaged but the totaliser function alw
ays appears
>- ---to reflect remaining fuel to within a gallon or so.
>
>- ---Ron McGann
>
>- ---Head of Engineering
>- ---Security Solutions & Services
>- ---Aerospace
>
>- ---Tel: +61 2 9562 3530 | Mob: +61 (0) 466 655 393 | Fax: +61 2
9562 2100
>
>- --------Original Message-----
>- ---From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>- ---[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ma
rcus Cooper
>- ---Sent: Friday, 25 September 2009 2:45 AM
>- ---To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>- ---Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
>
zon.net>
>
>- ---I have about 430 hours with the transducer in the plans locat
ion.- No
>- ---real
>- ---issues although I do notice a slight FF drop when I turn the
boost pump
>- ---off.
>- ---So far it has been very accurate and consistent.
>
>- ---Marcus
>- ---40286
>
>- --------Original Message-----
>- ---From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>- ---[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ni
ck Leonard
>- ---Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:05 PM
>- ---To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>- ---Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
>
d.com>
>
>- ---As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interes
ting to get
>- ---feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally
suggested.
>- ---Are
>- ---any of you having any trouble with the transducer in that loc
ation?
>
>- ---How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate rea
dings or
>- ---other
>- ---problems?
>
>- -----------
>- ---Nick Leonard
>- ---RV-10 (40015) Finish
>
>
>
>
>- ---Read this topic online here:
>
>- ---http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>- ---DISCLAIMER:--------------------------------------------------
-------------------------
>- ---This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and previou
s
>- ---e-mail messages
>- ---attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain
>- ---proprietary or copyright
>- ---material or information that is subject to legal professional
>- ---privilege. They are for
>- ---the use of the intended recipient only.- Any unauthorised v
iewing,
>- ---use, disclosure,
>- ---copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance
on,
>- ---this message is
>- ---strictly prohibited. No part may be reproduced, adapted or
>- ---transmitted without the
>- ---written permission of the owner. If you have received this
>- ---transmission in error, or
>- ---are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify th
e
>- ---sender by return email,
>- ---delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system, a
nd
>- ---destroy any printed
>- ---copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient s
hould
>- ---not be deemed a
>- ---waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does
not
>- ---warrant or represent
>- ---that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail
>- ---messages attached are
>- ---error or virus free.
>- ----------------------------------------------------------------
-------k"
>- ---href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://
www.matroni="_blank"
>- ---href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.
co- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, Lis
t blank"
>- ---href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.mat
ronics.==================
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FireWall Engine Side Paint? |
| From: | "nukeflyboy" <flymoore(at)charter.net> |
Since you haven't gotten a reply I'll add my $0.02 worth. First the fact that
no one paints the firewall should tell you something. But if you have to do it
I would use hi temp paint. I don't know how hot it gets but the exhaust from
the oil cooler is at least that hot at times and I think the firewall gets hotter
as it sits following engine shutdown. The heater box may cook too. Pick
a color that goes well with oil and dirt since that is what will accumulate
there.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB - cabin top/fiberglass hell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265171#265171
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
There are only two ways to get vapor. Either the line is hot enough to
vaporize fuel...only going to happen at low power, or if you have a
leak and are sucking air into the line. If the line is sealed, at high
power you will not have any fluctuations because the flow is
sufficient to keep the lines cool. The line from the spider to the
fuel pressure sending unit is sealed, and it will make little
difference whether it contains air or fuel, other than speed of
response.
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Patrick Thyssen wrote:
>
> Tim,
> Thats not exactly right. when you have fuel or liquid mix with vapor or air,pass
by a volume of air you will see a change in pressure due to the compression
of the air. That's why you see fluxuation in pressure gauges.
> If you worked in the oil and gas business you see this all the time in pipelines.
If you look at a trouble shooting manual for this, one of the reasons you
see fluxuation in gauges due to vapor in the line and one of the first thing
it tells you is to get the air out.
> So what I was getting at is the gas(vapor) is getting into the line going to
the gauge so as other vapor mixed with fuel passes by your gauge line it changes
press due to compression of the vapor.
>
>
> Patrick Thyssen
> still learning
>
>
> --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 11:41 PM
>
>
> Pressure is pressure, it's just the compressibility that is
> different. If the vapor were at 50psi, it would push
> down on the fuel at 50psi, and up on the fuel pressure
> sender at 50psi, and the fuel would transfer that pressure
> to the engine at 50psi. Doesn't matter if it's vapor, or
> what is in the line...it's just a diaphragm that is
> displaying pressure. Think of a manometer..it's using
> air and liquid to show air pressure, but inside the
> manometer is both air and liquid. It's all the same when
> it's pushing out against something else. If you have a
> pot of steaming water and you plug it, the steam will
> build up pressure, and if you puncture the bottom of
> the pot, the water will come out at whatever pressure
> the steam is at.
>
> So no, it shouldn't have an effect on the pressure reading.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone |
| From: | "nukeflyboy" <flymoore(at)charter.net> |
I recall having a minor problem with my QB. If all the holes on the skins don't
line up perfectly check the longerons for interference. They may be too long.
Trim a little off if needed.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB - cabin top/fiberglass hell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265172#265172
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move |
Sure, but when the air is compressing and expanding, the pressure of
the liquid is changing too....it's not staying steady. So if the gas
expands and causes a pressure rise, the fuel pressure will go up too.
The vapor may cause the gauge to move up and down but the fuel
pressure is changing then too.
Tim
On Sep 26, 2009, at 9:29 PM, Patrick Thyssen
wrote:
> Tim,
> Thats not exactly right. when you have fuel or liquid mix with
> vapor or air,pass by a volume of air you will see a change in
> pressure due to the compression of the air. That's why you see
> fluxuation in pressure gauges.
> If you worked in the oil and gas business you see this all the time
> in pipelines. If you look at a trouble shooting manual for this, one
> of the reasons you see fluxuation in gauges due to vapor in the line
> and one of the first thing it tells you is to get the air out.
> So what I was getting at is the gas(vapor) is getting into the line
> going to the gauge so as other vapor mixed with fuel passes by your
> gauge line it changes press due to compression of the vapor.
>
>
> Patrick Thyssen
> still learning
>
>
> --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 11:41 PM
>
>
> Pressure is pressure, it's just the compressibility that is
> different. If the vapor were at 50psi, it would push
> down on the fuel at 50psi, and up on the fuel pressure
> sender at 50psi, and the fuel would transfer that pressure
> to the engine at 50psi. Doesn't matter if it's vapor, or
> what is in the line...it's just a diaphragm that is
> displaying pressure. Think of a manometer..it's using
> air and liquid to show air pressure, but inside the
> manometer is both air and liquid. It's all the same when
> it's pushing out against something else. If you have a
> pot of steaming water and you plug it, the steam will
> build up pressure, and if you puncture the bottom of
> the pot, the water will come out at whatever pressure
> the steam is at.
>
> So no, it shouldn't have an effect on the pressure reading.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>
>
> Patrick Thyssen wrote:
> > One thing I have just thought about and correct me if I'm wrong.
> From the fuel pump to the fuel pressure sending unit is up hill or
> above the fuel pump. This being said if you get air in your hoses
> going to your pressure transducer from being hot [vapor] then you
> could have a problem as to what it is reporting.
> > By having a compression of air instead of solid liquid.
> > Lets hear from the engineers.
> >
> > Patrick Thyssen
> > Engine pickled again!!! for new instrument panel
> > Oh how I love OP
> >
> > --- On *Thu, 9/24/09, McGann, Ron //
> * wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: McGann, Ron <Ron.McGann(at)thalesgroup.com.au>
> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 5:28 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Only 40 hours but same experience as Marcus. Only
> irregluarity comes
> > when the boost pump is engaged but the totaliser function
> always appears
> > to reflect remaining fuel to within a gallon or so.
> >
> > Ron McGann
> >
> > Head of Engineering
> > Security Solutions & Services
> > Aerospace
> >
> > Tel: +61 2 9562 3530 | Mob: +61 (0) 466 655 393 | Fax: +61 2 9562 2100
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Marcus Cooper
> > Sent: Friday, 25 September 2009 2:45 AM
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
> >
> >
> >
> > I have about 430 hours with the transducer in the plans
> location. No
> > real
> > issues although I do notice a slight FF drop when I turn the
> boost pump
> > off.
> > So far it has been very accurate and consistent.
> >
> > Marcus
> > 40286
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Nick Leonard
> > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:05 PM
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
> >
> >
> >
> > As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be
> interesting to get
> > feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally
> suggested.
> > Are
> > any of you having any trouble with the transducer in that
> location?
> >
> > How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate
> readings or
> > other
> > problems?
> >
> > --------
> > Nick Leonard
> > RV-10 (40015) Finish
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> DISCLAIMER:
> ---
> ---
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and previous
> > e-mail messages
> > attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain
> > proprietary or copyright
> > material or information that is subject to legal professional
> > privilege. They are for
> > the use of the intended recipient only. Any unauthorised
> viewing,
> > use, disclosure,
> > copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance on,
> > this message is
> > strictly prohibited. No part may be reproduced, adapted or
> > transmitted without the
> > written permission of the owner. If you have received this
> > transmission in error, or
> > are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify the
> > sender by return email,
> > delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system, and
> > destroy any printed
> > copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient
> should
> > not be deemed a
> > waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does not
> > warrant or represent
> > that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail
> > messages attached are
> > error or virus free.
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------k"
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matroni=
> "_blank"
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://
> forums.matronics.co -Matt Dralle, List
> blank"
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.==================
> &gsp; --> http://= - List
> Contributionsp; -Matt Dralle, cs.com/contribution
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio=============
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FireWall Engine Side Paint? |
| From: | "conradb" <conradbooze(at)cox.net> |
Another person mentioned that the firewall could become in excess of 200 degree
during shutdown/cooling off period. He also mentioned that using a foil/heat
blanket barrier from Spruce Aircraft Supply on the engine side of the firewall.
So what I think I'll do is remove the existing low temp paint, repaint with
high temp paint and use a barrier material on BOTH sides of the firewall to
keep the sound and temps low and the avionics cooler.
--------
Conrad Booze
Sr. Engineer
P. O. Box 7028
Warner Robins, GA. 31095
(478)-335-4264
conradbooze(at)cox.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265176#265176
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil White" <philwhite9(at)aol.com> |
Schumacher chargers are automatic, have an AGM setting and de-sulfating. Their
12248 is also sold at Wal-Mart as model SC-1200A. I bought one today for $45.
Less than half what I saw advertized on several web sites.
If you're using PC680's or other Odyssey models, this looks like the best option
to keep them in great shape.
Phil
#40220 in Downers Grove, IL (finished cowl over 20B rotary)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265178#265178
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move |
Tim,
-Yes but it at different rates. you have the factor that the fluid is mov
ing out to the injector giving relief ever so slightly as the vapor hits a
open area bigger then it was in, allowing it to expand then having to compr
ess again- as per fluid takes less time to compress.
-So my conclusion is , get air out of the lines. Everyone who has fluxuat
ion in their pressure gauges should check for air in their lines to their t
ransducers.
Patrick Thyssen
--- On Sat, 9/26/09, Tim Olson wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 10:09 PM
Sure, but when the air is compressing and expanding, the pressure of the li
quid is changing too....it's not staying steady. -So if the gas expands a
nd causes a pressure rise, the fuel pressure will go up too. -The vapor m
ay cause the gauge to move up and down but the fuel pressure is changing th
en too.Tim
On Sep 26, 2009, at 9:29 PM, Patrick Thyssen wrote:
Tim,
-Thats not exactly right. when you have fuel or liquid mix with vapor or
air,pass by a volume of air you will see a change in pressure due to the co
mpression of the air. That's why you see fluxuation in pressure gauges.
-If you worked in the oil and gas business you see this all the time in p
ipelines. If you look at a trouble shooting manual for this, one of the rea
sons you see fluxuation in gauges due to vapor in the line and one of the f
irst thing it tells you is to get the air out.
-So what I was getting at is the gas(vapor) is getting into the line goin
g to the gauge so as other vapor mixed with fuel passes by your gauge line
it changes press due to compression of the vapor.
-
-
Patrick Thyssen
still learning
--- On Thu, 9/24/09, Tim Olson =0A wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 11:41 PM
Pressure is pressure, it's just the compressibility that is
different.- If the vapor were at 50psi, it would push
down on the fuel at 50psi, and up on the fuel pressure
sender at 50psi, and the fuel would transfer that pressure
to the engine at 50psi.- Doesn't matter if it's vapor, or
what is in the line...it's just a diaphragm that is
displaying pressure.- Think of a manometer..it's using
air and liquid to show air pressure, but inside the
manometer is=0A both air and liquid.- It's all the same when
it's pushing out against something else.- If you have a
pot of steaming water and you plug it, the steam will
build up pressure, and if you puncture the bottom of
the pot, the water will come out at whatever pressure
the steam is at.
So no, it shouldn't have an effect on the pressure reading.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
Patrick Thyssen wrote:
> One thing I have just thought about and correct me if I'm wrong. From the
fuel pump to the fuel pressure sending unit is up hill or above the fuel p
ump. This being said if you get air in your hoses going to your pressure tr
ansducer from- being hot [vapor] then you could have a problem as to what
it is reporting.
> By having a compression of air instead of solid liquid.
>- Lets hear from the engineers.
>
> Patrick Thyssen
> Engine pickled again!!! for new instrument=0A panel
>- Oh how I love OP
>
> --- On *Thu, 9/24/09, McGann, Ron //* wrot
e:
>
>
>- ---From: McGann, Ron <Ron.McGann(at)thalesgroup.com.au>
>- ---Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
>- ---To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>- ---Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 5:28 PM
>
>- ---
>
>- ---Only 40 hours but same experience as Marcus.- Only irreglua
rity comes
>- ---when the boost pump is engaged but the totaliser function alw
ays appears
>- ---to reflect remaining fuel to within a gallon or so.
>
>- ---Ron McGann
>
>- ---Head of Engineering
>- ---Security Solutions & Services
>- ---Aerospace
>
>- ---Tel: +61 2 9562 3530 | Mob: +61 (0) 466 655 393 | Fax: +61 2
9562 2100
>
>- --------Original Message-----
>- ---From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>- ---[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ma
rcus Cooper
>- ---Sent: Friday, 25 September 2009 2:45 AM
>- ---To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>- ---Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
>
zon.net>
>
>- ---I have about 430 hours with the transducer in the plans locat
ion.-=0A No
>- ---real
>- ---issues although I do notice a slight FF drop when I turn the
boost pump
>- ---off.
>- ---So far it has been very accurate and consistent.
>
>- ---Marcus
>- ---40286
>
>- --------Original Message-----
>- ---From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>- ---[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ni
ck Leonard
>- ---Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:05 PM
>- ---To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>- ---Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
>
d.com>
>
>- ---As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interes
ting to get
>- ---feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally
suggested.
>- ---Are
>- ---any of you having any trouble with the transducer in that loc
ation?
>
>- ---How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate rea
dings or
>- ---other
>- ---problems?
>
>-=0A -----------
>- ---Nick Leonard
>- ---RV-10 (40015) Finish
>
>
>
>
>- ---Read this topic online here:
>
>- ---http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>- ---DISCLAIMER:--------------------------------------------------
-------------------------
>- ---This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and previou
s
>- ---e-mail messages
>- ---attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain
>-=0A ---proprietary or copyright
>- ---material or information that is subject to legal professional
>- ---privilege. They are for
>- ---the use of the intended recipient only.- Any unauthorised v
iewing,
>- ---use, disclosure,
>- ---copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance
on,
>- ---this message is
>- ---strictly prohibited. No part may be reproduced, adapted or
>- ---transmitted without the
>- ---written permission of the owner. If you have received this
>- ---transmission in error, or
>- ---are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify th
e
>- ---sender by return email,
>-=0A ---delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system
, and
>- ---destroy any printed
>- ---copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient s
hould
>- ---not be deemed a
>- ---waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does
not
>- ---warrant or represent
>- ---that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail
>- ---messages attached are
>- ---error or virus free.
>- ----------------------------------------------------------------
-------k"
>- ---href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://
www.matroni="_blank"
>- ---href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.
co- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, Lis
t blank"
>- ---href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.mat
ronics.==================
&gsp;---> http://=- - - - - ---- List Contributionsp;
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============
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tribution
=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions |
| From: | "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net> |
[ The knowledgeable technical support is near non-existent.
When you call Garmin they answer with minimal hold times.
I have been flying my RV10 now for a year with the 900X/Sorcerer installed.
Did you buy your 900X from Stein? They have very knowledgeable 900X support.
In particular, they have a technician there that knows the 900X inside and out.
Initially my Garmin would not speak with my ($10,000) Sorcerer AP for
flying a heading.
Is the Heading bug working now? The Heading bug works with the 05 software update
AND the additional D-sub connector wires that must be added.
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265202#265202
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Totally unnecessary. You aren't going to detect the fraction of a second
difference. The only place air makes a difference is in the lines to/from
the fuel servo and injectors. Unless you have a leak, will only be there
during startup/taxi from a hot start. The fluctuations at the transducer
have nothing to do with whether the line to the spyder has air or liquid.
You are confusing pulsation in the fuel FLOW gauge with a pressure pulsation
in the fuel pressure, which is very unlikely. Flow pulsations have to do
with the fuel pump and placement of the transducer and virtually nothing to
do with pressure.
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Patrick Thyssen wrote:
> Tim,
> Yes but it at different rates. you have the factor that the fluid is
> moving out to the injector giving relief ever so slightly as the vapor hits
> a open area bigger then it was in, allowing it to expand then having to
> compress again as per fluid takes less time to compress.
> So my conclusion is , get air out of the lines. Everyone who has
> fluxuation in their pressure gauges should check for air in their lines to
> their transducers.
>
> Patrick Thyssen
>
> --- On *Sat, 9/26/09, Tim Olson * wrote:
>
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
> To: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com"
> Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 10:09 PM
>
> Sure, but when the air is compressing and expanding, the pressure of the
> liquid is changing too....it's not staying steady. So if the gas expands
> and causes a pressure rise, the fuel pressure will go up too. The vapor may
> cause the gauge to move up and down but the fuel pressure is changing then
> too.
> Tim
>
>
> On Sep 26, 2009, at 9:29 PM, Patrick Thyssen http://mc/compose?to=jump2@sbcglobal.net>>
> wrote:
>
> Tim,
> Thats not exactly right. when you have fuel or liquid mix with vapor or
> air,pass by a volume of air you will see a change in pressure due to the
> compression of the air. That's why you see fluxuation in pressure gauges.
> If you worked in the oil and gas business you see this all the time in
> pipelines. If you look at a trouble shooting manual for this, one of the
> reasons you see fluxuation in gauges due to vapor in the line and one of the
> first thing it tells you is to get the air out.
> So what I was getting at is the gas(vapor) is getting into the line going
> to the gauge so as other vapor mixed with fuel passes by your gauge line it
> changes press due to compression of the vapor.
>
>
> Patrick Thyssen
> still learning
>
>
> --- On *Thu, 9/24/09, Tim Olson http://mc/compose?to=Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >* wrote:
>
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com <http://mc/compose?to=Tim@MyRV10.com>>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
> To: <http://mc/compose?to=rv10-list@matronics.com>rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 11:41 PM
>
> >
>
> Pressure is pressure, it's just the compressibility that is
> different. If the vapor were at 50psi, it would push
> down on the fuel at 50psi, and up on the fuel pressure
> sender at 50psi, and the fuel would transfer that pressure
> to the engine at 50psi. Doesn't matter if it's vapor, or
> what is in the line...it's just a diaphragm that is
> displaying pressure. Think of a manometer..it's using
> air and liquid to show air pressure, but inside the
> manometer is both air and liquid. It's all the same when
> it's pushing out against something else. If you have a
> pot of steaming water and you plug it, the steam will
> build up pressure, and if you puncture the bottom of
> the pot, the water will come out at whatever pressure
> the steam is at.
>
> So no, it shouldn't have an effect on the pressure reading.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>
>
> Patrick Thyssen wrote:
> > One thing I have just thought about and correct me if I'm wrong. From the
> fuel pump to the fuel pressure sending unit is up hill or above the fuel
> pump. This being said if you get air in your hoses going to your pressure
> transducer from being hot [vapor] then you could have a problem as to what
> it is reporting.
> > By having a compression of air instead of solid liquid.
> > Lets hear from the engineers.
> >
> > Patrick Thyssen
> > Engine pickled again!!! for new instrument panel
> > Oh how I love OP
> >
> > --- On *Thu, 9/24/09, McGann, Ron /http://mc/compose?to=Ron.McGann@thalesgroup.com.au>>/*
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: McGann, Ron <Ron.McGann@thalesgroup.com.au<http://mc/compose?to=Ron.McGann@thalesgroup.com.au>
> >
> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com<http://mc/compose?to=rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 5:28 PM
> >
> > http://mc/compose?to=Ron.McGann@thalesgroup.com.au>
> >
> >
> > Only 40 hours but same experience as Marcus. Only irregluarity comes
> > when the boost pump is engaged but the totaliser function always
> appears
> > to reflect remaining fuel to within a gallon or so.
> >
> > Ron McGann
> >
> > Head of Engineering
> > Security Solutions & Services
> > Aerospace
> >
> > Tel: +61 2 9562 3530 | Mob: +61 (0) 466 655 393 | Fax: +61 2 9562
> 2100
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com<http://mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com<http://mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>]
> On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
> > Sent: Friday, 25 September 2009 2:45 AM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com<http://mc/compose?to=rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
> >
> >
> >
> > I have about 430 hours with the transducer in the plans location. No
> > real
> > issues although I do notice a slight FF drop when I turn the boost
> pump
> > off.
> > So far it has been very accurate and consistent.
> >
> > Marcus
> > 40286
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com<http://mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com<http://mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>]
> On Behalf Of Nick Leonard
> > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:05 PM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com<http://mc/compose?to=rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
> >
> >
> >
> > As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interesting to
> get
> > feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally
> suggested.
> > Are
> > any of you having any trouble with the transducer in that location?
> >
> > How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate readings or
> > other
> > problems?
> >
> > --------
> > Nick Leonard
> > RV-10 (40015) Finish
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> DISCLAIMER:---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and previous
> > e-mail messages
> > attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain
> > proprietary or copyright
> > material or information that is subject to legal professional
> > privilege. They are for
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> > use, disclosure,
> > copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance on,
> > this message is
> > strictly prohibited. No part may be reproduced, adapted or
> > transmitted without the
> > written permission of the owner. If you have received this
> > transmission in error, or
> > are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify the
> > sender by return email,
> > delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system, and
> > destroy any printed
> > copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient should
> > not be deemed a
> > waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does not
> > warrant or represent
> > that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail
> > messages attached are
> > error or virus free.
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------k"
> > href="
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">
> http://www.matroni="_blank"
> > href=" http://forums.matronics.com">
> http://forums.matronics.co -Matt Dralle, List
> blank"
> > href="
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
> http://www.matronics.==================
> &gsp; --> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
> http://= - List Contributionsp;
> -Matt Dralle, cs.com/contribution" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/contributio=============
>
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move |
This is my last Question, Where is your fuel pressure coming off. Is it the
spider or the fuel pump? I believe most are coming from their fuel pump on
the rv10.
Patrick Thyssen
--- On Sun, 9/27/09, Kelly McMullen wrote:
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 10:42 AM
Totally unnecessary. You aren't going to detect the fraction of a second di
fference. The only place air makes a difference is in the lines to/from the
fuel servo and injectors. Unless you have a leak, will only be there durin
g startup/taxi from a hot start. The fluctuations at the transducer have no
thing to do with whether the line to the spyder has air or liquid. You are
confusing pulsation in the fuel FLOW gauge with a pressure pulsation in the
fuel pressure, which is very unlikely. Flow pulsations have to do with the
fuel pump and placement of the transducer and virtually nothing to do with
pressure.
=0A
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Patrick Thyssen wrot
e:
=0A=0ATim,
-Yes but it at different rates. you have the factor that the fluid is mov
ing out to the injector giving relief ever so slightly as the vapor hits a
open area bigger then it was in, allowing it to expand then having to compr
ess again- as per fluid takes less time to compress.
=0A-So my conclusion is , get air out of the lines. Everyone who has flux
uation in their pressure gauges should check for air in their lines to thei
r transducers.
Patrick Thyssen
--- On Sat, 9/26/09, Tim Olson wrote:
=0A
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
=0ATo: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com"
Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009,=0A 10:09 PM
Sure, but when the air is compressing and expanding, the pressure of the li
quid is changing too....it's not staying steady. -So if the gas expands a
nd causes a pressure rise, the fuel pressure will go up too. -The vapor m
ay cause the gauge to move up and down but the fuel pressure is changing th
en too.=0ATim
On Sep 26, 2009, at 9:29 PM, Patrick Thyssen wrote:
=0A=0ATim,
-Thats not=0A exactly right. when you have fuel or liquid mix with vapor
or air,pass by a volume of air you will see a change in pressure due to the
compression of the air. That's why you see fluxuation in pressure gauges.
-If you worked in the oil and gas business you see this all the time in p
ipelines. If you look at a trouble shooting manual for this, one of the rea
sons you see fluxuation in gauges due to vapor in the line and one of the f
irst thing it tells you is to get the air out.
=0A-So what I was getting at is the gas(vapor) is getting into the line g
oing to the gauge so as other vapor mixed with fuel passes by your gauge li
ne it changes press due to compression of the vapor.
-
-
Patrick Thyssen
=0Astill learning
--- On Thu, 9/24/09, Tim Olson =0A wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
=0ADate: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 11:41 PM
=0A
Pressure is pressure, it's just the compressibility that is
different.- If the=0A vapor were at 50psi, it would push
down on the fuel at 50psi, and up on the fuel pressure
sender at 50psi, and the fuel would transfer that pressure
to the engine at 50psi.- Doesn't matter if it's vapor, or
=0Awhat is in the line...it's just a diaphragm that is
displaying pressure.- Think of a manometer..it's using
air and liquid to show air pressure, but inside the
manometer is=0A both air and liquid.- It's all the same when
it's pushing out against something else.- If you have a
pot of steaming water and you plug it, the steam will
build up pressure, and if you puncture the bottom of
=0Athe pot, the water will come out at whatever pressure
the steam is at.
So no, it shouldn't have an effect on the pressure reading.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
Patrick Thyssen wrote:
> One thing I have just thought about and correct me if I'm wrong. From the
fuel pump to the fuel pressure sending unit is up hill or above the fuel p
ump. This being said if you get air in your hoses going to your pressure tr
ansducer from- being hot [vapor] then you could have a problem as to what
it is reporting.
=0A> By having a compression of air instead of solid liquid.
>- Lets hear from the engineers.
>
> Patrick Thyssen
> Engine pickled again!!! for new instrument=0A panel
>- Oh how I love OP
>
> --- On *Thu, 9/24/09, McGann, Ron //* wrot
e:
=0A>
>
>- ---From: McGann, Ron <Ron.McGann(at)thalesgroup.com.au>
>- ---Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
=0A>- ---To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>- ---Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 5:28 PM
>
>- ---
=0A>
>- ---Only 40 hours but same experience as Marcus.- Only irreglua
rity comes
>- ---when the boost pump is engaged but the totaliser function alw
ays appears
>- ---to reflect remaining fuel to within a gallon or so.
=0A>
>- ---Ron McGann
>
>- ---Head of Engineering
>- ---Security Solutions & Services
>- ---Aerospace
>
>- ---Tel: +61 2 9562 3530 | Mob: +61 (0) 466 655 393 | Fax: +61 2
9562 2100
=0A>
>-=0A --------Original Message-----
>- ---From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>- ---[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ma
rcus Cooper
=0A>- ---Sent: Friday, 25 September 2009 2:45 AM
>- ---To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>- ---Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
=0A>
erizon.net>
>
>- ---I have about 430 hours with the transducer in the plans locat
ion.-=0A No
>- ---real
>- ---issues although I do notice a slight FF drop when I turn the
boost pump
>- ---off.
>- ---So far it has been very accurate and consistent.
>
>- ---Marcus
>- ---40286
=0A>
>- --------Original Message-----
>- ---From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
=0A>- ---[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Nick Leonard
>-=0A ---Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:05 PM
>- ---To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>- ---Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
=0A>
d.com>
>
=0A>- ---As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be inte
resting to get
>- ---feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally
suggested.
>- ---Are
>- ---any of you having any trouble with the transducer in that loc
ation?
=0A>=0A
>- ---How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate rea
dings or
>- ---other
>- ---problems?
>
>-=0A -----------
>- ---Nick Leonard
>- ---RV-10 (40015) Finish
>
>
>
>
>- ---Read this topic online here:
>
>- ---http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706
=0A>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>- ---DISCLAIMER:--------------------------------------------------
-------------------------
=0A>- ---This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and prev
ious
>- ---e-mail=0A messages
>- ---attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain
>-=0A ---proprietary or copyright
>- ---material or information that is subject to legal professional
>- ---privilege. They are for
>- ---the use of the intended recipient only.- Any unauthorised v
iewing,
=0A>- ---use, disclosure,
>- ---copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance
on,
>- ---this message is
>- ---strictly prohibited. No part may be reproduced, adapted or
>- ---transmitted without the
=0A>- ---written permission of the owner. If you have received this
>- ---transmission in error, or
>- ---are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify th
e
>- ---sender by return email,
>-=0A ---delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system
, and
>- ---destroy any printed
>- ---copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient s
hould
>- ---not be deemed a
>- ---waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does
not
=0A>- ---warrant or represent
>- ---that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail
>- ---messages attached are
>- ---error or virus free.
>- ----------------------------------------------------------------
-------k"
=0A>- ---href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http
://www.matroni="_blank"
=0A>- ---href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matroni
cs.co- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle,
List blank"
=0A>- ---href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.
matronics.==================
=0A&gsp;---> http://=- - - - - ---- List Contributionsp
; - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle,=0Ac
s.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
=============
=0A
=0A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution
=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigaget="_blank" href="http://forums.matr
onics.com">http://forums.matronics - List
gt; =0A=0A
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move |
-Correction, I'm not talking about your fuel flow transducer I'm talking
about fuel pressure transducer. The line from pump runs uphill and vapor do
es not travel down hill in a closed end line.
Patrick Thyssen
--- On Sun, 9/27/09, Patrick Thyssen wrote:
From: Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 11:50 AM
This is my last Question, Where is your fuel pressure coming off. Is it the
spider or the fuel pump? I believe most are coming from their fuel pump on
the rv10.
Patrick Thyssen
--- On Sun, 9/27/09, Kelly McMullen wrote:
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 10:42 AM
Totally unnecessary. You aren't going to detect the fraction of a second di
fference. The only place air makes a difference is in the lines to/from the
fuel servo and injectors. Unless you have a leak, will only be there durin
g startup/taxi from a hot start. The fluctuations at the=0A transducer have
nothing to do with whether the line to the spyder has air or liquid. You a
re confusing pulsation in the fuel FLOW gauge with a pressure pulsation in
the fuel pressure, which is very unlikely. Flow pulsations have to do with
the fuel pump and placement of the transducer and virtually nothing to do w
ith pressure.
=0A
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Patrick Thyssen wrot
e:
=0A=0ATim,
-Yes but it at different rates. you have the factor that the fluid is mov
ing out to the injector giving relief ever so slightly as the vapor hits a
open area bigger then it was in, allowing it to expand then having to compr
ess again- as per fluid takes less time to compress.
=0A-So my conclusion is , get air out of the lines. Everyone who has flux
uation in their pressure gauges should check for air in their lines to thei
r transducers.
Patrick Thyssen
--- On Sat, 9/26/09, Tim Olson wrote:
=0A
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
=0ATo: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com"
Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009,=0A 10:09 PM
Sure, but when the air is compressing and expanding, the pressure of the li
quid is changing too....it's not staying steady. -So if the gas expands a
nd causes a pressure rise, the fuel pressure will go up too. -The vapor m
ay cause the gauge to move up and down but the fuel pressure is changing th
en too.=0ATim
On Sep 26, 2009, at 9:29 PM, Patrick Thyssen wrote:
=0A=0ATim,
-Thats not=0A exactly right. when you have fuel or liquid mix with vapor
or air,pass by a volume of air you will see a change in pressure due to the
compression of the air. That's why you see fluxuation in pressure gauges.
-If you worked in the oil and gas business you see this all the time in p
ipelines. If you look at a trouble shooting manual for this, one of the rea
sons you see fluxuation in gauges due to vapor in the line and one of the f
irst thing it tells you is to get the air out.
=0A-So what I was getting at is the gas(vapor) is getting into the line g
oing to the gauge so as other vapor mixed with fuel passes by your gauge li
ne it changes press due to compression of the vapor.
-
-
Patrick Thyssen
=0Astill learning
--- On Thu, 9/24/09, Tim Olson =0A wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
=0ADate: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 11:41 PM
=0A
Pressure is pressure, it's just the compressibility that is
different.- If the=0A vapor were at 50psi, it would push
down on the fuel at 50psi, and up on the fuel pressure
sender at 50psi, and the fuel would transfer that pressure
to the engine at 50psi.- Doesn't matter if it's vapor, or
=0Awhat is in the line...it's just a diaphragm that is
displaying pressure.- Think of a manometer..it's using
air and liquid to show air pressure, but inside the
manometer is=0A both air and liquid.- It's all the same when
it's pushing out against something else.- If you have a
pot of steaming water and you plug it, the steam will
build up pressure, and if you puncture the bottom of
=0Athe pot, the water will come out at whatever pressure
the steam is at.
So no, it shouldn't have an effect on the pressure reading.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
Patrick Thyssen wrote:
> One thing I have just thought about and correct me if I'm wrong. From the
fuel pump to the fuel pressure sending unit is up hill or above the fuel p
ump. This being said if you get air in your hoses going to your pressure tr
ansducer from- being hot [vapor] then you could have a problem as to what
it is reporting.
=0A> By having a compression of air instead of solid liquid.
>- Lets hear from the engineers.
>
> Patrick Thyssen
> Engine pickled again!!! for new instrument=0A panel
>- Oh how I love OP
>
> --- On *Thu, 9/24/09, McGann, Ron //* wrot
e:
=0A>
>
>- ---From: McGann, Ron <Ron.McGann(at)thalesgroup.com.au>
>- ---Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
=0A>- ---To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>- ---Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 5:28 PM
>
>- ---
=0A>
>- ---Only 40 hours but same experience as Marcus.- Only irreglua
rity comes
>- ---when the boost pump is engaged but the totaliser function alw
ays appears
>- ---to reflect remaining fuel to within a gallon or so.
=0A>
>- ---Ron McGann
>
>- ---Head of Engineering
>- ---Security Solutions & Services
>- ---Aerospace
>
>- ---Tel: +61 2 9562 3530 | Mob: +61 (0) 466 655 393 | Fax: +61 2
9562 2100
=0A>
>-=0A --------Original Message-----
>- ---From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>- ---[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ma
rcus Cooper
=0A>- ---Sent: Friday, 25 September 2009 2:45 AM
>- ---To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>- ---Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
=0A>
erizon.net>
>
>- ---I have about 430 hours with the transducer in the plans locat
ion.-=0A No
>- ---real
>- ---issues although I do notice a slight FF drop when I turn the
boost pump
>- ---off.
>- ---So far it has been very accurate and consistent.
>
>- ---Marcus
>- ---40286
=0A>
>- --------Original Message-----
>- ---From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
=0A>- ---[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Nick Leonard
>-=0A ---Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:05 PM
>- ---To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>- ---Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
=0A>
d.com>
>
=0A>- ---As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be inte
resting to get
>- ---feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally
suggested.
>- ---Are
>- ---any of you having any trouble with the transducer in that loc
ation?
=0A>=0A
>- ---How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate rea
dings or
>- ---other
>- ---problems?
>
>-=0A -----------
>- ---Nick Leonard
>- ---RV-10 (40015) Finish
>
>
>
>
>- ---Read this topic online here:
>
>- ---http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706
=0A>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>- ---DISCLAIMER:--------------------------------------------------
-------------------------
=0A>- ---This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and prev
ious
>- ---e-mail=0A messages
>- ---attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain
>-=0A ---proprietary or copyright
>- ---material or information that is subject to legal professional
>- ---privilege. They are for
>- ---the use of the intended recipient only.- Any unauthorised v
iewing,
=0A>- ---use, disclosure,
>- ---copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance
on,
>- ---this message is
>- ---strictly prohibited. No part may be reproduced, adapted or
>- ---transmitted without the
=0A>- ---written permission of the owner. If you have received this
>- ---transmission in error, or
>- ---are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify th
e
>- ---sender by return email,
>-=0A ---delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system
, and
>- ---destroy any printed
>- ---copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient s
hould
>- ---not be deemed a
>- ---waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does
not
=0A>- ---warrant or represent
>- ---that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail
>- ---messages attached are
>- ---error or virus free.
>- ----------------------------------------------------------------
-------k"
=0A>- ---href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http
://www.matroni="_blank"
=0A>- ---href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matroni
cs.co- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle,
List blank"
=0A>- ---href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.
matronics.==================
=0A&gsp;---> http://=- - - - - ---- List Contributionsp
; - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle,=0Ac
s.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
=============
=0A
=0A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution
=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigaget="_blank" href="http://forums.matr
onics.com">http://forums.matronics - List
gt; =0A=0A
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | new item for the rv-10 back seats |
Hey guys I thought I'd show you our newest "add-on" for the RV-10 :-). It
goes in the back seat and adds to the beauty of the plane. Good thing we're
building the 4 seater!
Ben Westfall
Portland, OR
#40579 (Finish Kit)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move |
| From: | William Curtis <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
On the RV-10, the standard location for the fuel pressure indication is from
the output side of the engine driven pump. In other aircraft, such as my
C177RG, the fuel pressure indication is taken off the spider.
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Patrick Thyssen wrote:
> This is my last Question, Where is your fuel pressure coming off. Is it
> the spider or the fuel pump? I believe most are coming from their fuel pump
> on the rv10.
> Patrick Thyssen
>
> --- On *Sun, 9/27/09, Kelly McMullen * wrote:
>
>
> From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 10:42 AM
>
> Totally unnecessary. You aren't going to detect the fraction of a second
> difference. The only place air makes a difference is in the lines to/from
> the fuel servo and injectors. Unless you have a leak, will only be there
> during startup/taxi from a hot start. The fluctuations at the transducer
> have nothing to do with whether the line to the spyder has air or liquid.
> You are confusing pulsation in the fuel FLOW gauge with a pressure pulsation
> in the fuel pressure, which is very unlikely. Flow pulsations have to do
> with the fuel pump and placement of the transducer and virtually nothing to
> do with pressure.
>
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Patrick Thyssen http://mc/compose?to=jump2@sbcglobal.net>
> > wrote:
>
>> Tim,
>> Yes but it at different rates. you have the factor that the fluid is
>> moving out to the injector giving relief ever so slightly as the vapor hits
>> a open area bigger then it was in, allowing it to expand then having to
>> compress again as per fluid takes less time to compress.
>> So my conclusion is , get air out of the lines. Everyone who has
>> fluxuation in their pressure gauges should check for air in their lines to
>> their transducers.
>>
>> Patrick Thyssen
>>
>> --- On *Sat, 9/26/09, Tim Olson * wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
>> To: "rv10-list@matronics.com<http://mc/compose?to=rv10-list@matronics.com>"
>> http://mc/compose?to=rv10-list@matronics.com>>
>> Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 10:09 PM
>>
>> Sure, but when the air is compressing and expanding, the pressure of
>> the liquid is changing too....it's not staying steady. So if the gas
>> expands and causes a pressure rise, the fuel pressure will go up too. The
>> vapor may cause the gauge to move up and down but the fuel pressure is
>> changing then too.
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 26, 2009, at 9:29 PM, Patrick Thyssen http://mc/compose?to=jump2@sbcglobal.net>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Tim,
>> Thats not exactly right. when you have fuel or liquid mix with vapor or
>> air,pass by a volume of air you will see a change in pressure due to the
>> compression of the air. That's why you see fluxuation in pressure gauges.
>> If you worked in the oil and gas business you see this all the time in
>> pipelines. If you look at a trouble shooting manual for this, one of the
>> reasons you see fluxuation in gauges due to vapor in the line and one of the
>> first thing it tells you is to get the air out.
>> So what I was getting at is the gas(vapor) is getting into the line going
>> to the gauge so as other vapor mixed with fuel passes by your gauge line it
>> changes press due to compression of the vapor.
>>
>>
>> Patrick Thyssen
>> still learning
>>
>>
>> --- On *Thu, 9/24/09, Tim Olson http://mc/compose?to=Tim@MyRV10.com>
>> >* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com <http://mc/compose?to=Tim@MyRV10.com>>
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
>> To: <http://mc/compose?to=rv10-list@matronics.com>rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 11:41 PM
>>
>> >
>>
>> Pressure is pressure, it's just the compressibility that is
>> different. If the vapor were at 50psi, it would push
>> down on the fuel at 50psi, and up on the fuel pressure
>> sender at 50psi, and the fuel would transfer that pressure
>> to the engine at 50psi. Doesn't matter if it's vapor, or
>> what is in the line...it's just a diaphragm that is
>> displaying pressure. Think of a manometer..it's using
>> air and liquid to show air pressure, but inside the
>> manometer is both air and liquid. It's all the same when
>> it's pushing out against something else. If you have a
>> pot of steaming water and you plug it, the steam will
>> build up pressure, and if you puncture the bottom of
>> the pot, the water will come out at whatever pressure
>> the steam is at.
>>
>> So no, it shouldn't have an effect on the pressure reading.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrick Thyssen wrote:
>> > One thing I have just thought about and correct me if I'm wrong. From
>> the fuel pump to the fuel pressure sending unit is up hill or above the fuel
>> pump. This being said if you get air in your hoses going to your pressure
>> transducer from being hot [vapor] then you could have a problem as to what
>> it is reporting.
>> > By having a compression of air instead of solid liquid.
>> > Lets hear from the engineers.
>> >
>> > Patrick Thyssen
>> > Engine pickled again!!! for new instrument panel
>> > Oh how I love OP
>> >
>> > --- On *Thu, 9/24/09, McGann, Ron /http://mc/compose?to=Ron.McGann@thalesgroup.com.au>>/*
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > From: McGann, Ron <Ron.McGann@thalesgroup.com.au<http://mc/compose?to=Ron.McGann@thalesgroup.com.au>
>> >
>> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
>> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com<http://mc/compose?to=rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 5:28 PM
>> >
>> > http://mc/compose?to=Ron.McGann@thalesgroup.com.au>
>> >
>> >
>> > Only 40 hours but same experience as Marcus. Only irregluarity
>> comes
>> > when the boost pump is engaged but the totaliser function always
>> appears
>> > to reflect remaining fuel to within a gallon or so.
>> >
>> > Ron McGann
>> >
>> > Head of Engineering
>> > Security Solutions & Services
>> > Aerospace
>> >
>> > Tel: +61 2 9562 3530 | Mob: +61 (0) 466 655 393 | Fax: +61 2 9562
>> 2100
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com<http://mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com<http://mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>]
>> On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
>> > Sent: Friday, 25 September 2009 2:45 AM
>> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com<http://mc/compose?to=rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
>> >
>> coop85@verizon.net <http://mc/compose?to=coop85@verizon.net>>
>> >
>> > I have about 430 hours with the transducer in the plans location.
>> No
>> > real
>> > issues although I do notice a slight FF drop when I turn the boost
>> pump
>> > off.
>> > So far it has been very accurate and consistent.
>> >
>> > Marcus
>> > 40286
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com<http://mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com<http://mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>]
>> On Behalf Of Nick Leonard
>> > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:05 PM
>> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com<http://mc/compose?to=rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> > Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interesting to
>> get
>> > feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally
>> suggested.
>> > Are
>> > any of you having any trouble with the transducer in that location?
>> >
>> > How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate readings
>> or
>> > other
>> > problems?
>> >
>> > --------
>> > Nick Leonard
>> > RV-10 (40015) Finish
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> DISCLAIMER:---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and previous
>> > e-mail messages
>> > attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain
>> > proprietary or copyright
>> > material or information that is subject to legal professional
>> > privilege. They are for
>> > the use of the intended recipient only. Any unauthorised viewing,
>> > use, disclosure,
>> > copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance on,
>> > this message is
>> > strictly prohibited. No part may be reproduced, adapted or
>> > transmitted without the
>> > written permission of the owner. If you have received this
>> > transmission in error, or
>> > are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify the
>> > sender by return email,
>> > delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system, and
>> > destroy any printed
>> > copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient should
>> > not be deemed a
>> > waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does not
>> > warrant or represent
>> > that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail
>> > messages attached are
>> > error or virus free.
>> >
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------k"
>> > href="
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">
>> http://www.matroni="_blank"
>> > href=" http://forums.matronics.com">
>> http://forums.matronics.co -Matt Dralle, List
>> blank"
>> > href="
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
>> http://www.matronics.==================
>> &gsp; --> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
>> http://= - List Contributionsp;
>> -Matt Dralle, cs.com/contribution" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/contributio=============
>>
>>
>>
>> <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>>
>> <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigaget="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics - List
>> gt; <http://www.matronics.com/======%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3E%3C/font%3E%3C/b%3E%3Cfont+size=>*
>>
>> *
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
> **
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> |
Mistake #1. No I did not buy from Stein. It may make sense for me to pay
an hourly phone rate to a technical expert on the subject. My issues are
common in regards to upgrade paths. This is something a knowledgeable
technician should know blindfolded.
Have you ever upgraded your system software? I assume you must have
since with the release of the new version due in Nov/Dec this will be 3
updates in 12 months (from what I can tell).
No my heading bug is not working because I am not up to _05 due to the
calibration loss issue. I hope to resolve this in the coming week and
perform the upgrade.
Of note the group I purchased my G900X and all the other avionics
suggested I take it over the a certified Garmin avionics shop to upgrade
the system software. After the well respected local avionics shop called
Garmin to confirm the process they came back to me with 4-5 hours labor
at $110/hour. I have read the procedure, it's not very difficult or time
consuming unless the whole calibration loss is thrown into the process?
AGAIN I must be missing something unstated in the manual as there is no
way anyone would design a procedure whereby you lose all this critical
data that cannot be stored and reinstalled.
Do you have SVT?
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of zackrv8
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 7:02 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions
[ The knowledgeable technical support is near non-existent.
When you call Garmin they answer with minimal hold times.
I have been flying my RV10 now for a year with the 900X/Sorcerer
installed.
Did you buy your 900X from Stein? They have very knowledgeable 900X
support. In particular, they have a technician there that knows the
900X inside and out.
Initially my Garmin would not speak with my ($10,000) Sorcerer AP for
flying a heading.
Is the Heading bug working now? The Heading bug works with the 05
software update AND the additional D-sub connector wires that must be
added.
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265202#265202
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/27/09 05:51:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: new item for the rv-10 back seats |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
Congratulations - no better compliment to life and the back seat
--------
OSH '10 or Bust
Q/B Kit - phase 1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265223#265223
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
Check the manual on std aircraft construction and Van's instructions. The most
important thing is to maintain structural integrity. If I recall correctly your
holes should be no more than 1.5x the width of the hole from the edge. Like
the prior post said leave enuf room for the washers and nut
--------
OSH '10 or Bust
Q/B Kit - phase 1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265224#265224
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions |
| From: | "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net> |
Robin,
You need to upgrade to the 05 software because it cures many issues. To download
this software into your 900X takes about 1 hour. It's not difficult at all
as I have done it myself a few times.
No way should you have to recalibrate all of your settings...for sure the fuel
calibration. The fuel calibration is protected and takes a couple more button
pushes to cancel it. So, I don't know why or how you would have to cancel
your fuel calibrations.
When I have a problem with software or hardware issues (and I have had many!),
I first talk to Stein. Stein has a guy working for him named Christer. He
is a GENIUS with the 900X! If he can't resolve the issue (he usually does in
most cases), then he'll call Tim Larberg at Garmin.
Between the two of them, I get results.
One issue that stumped Christer and I was the GDL69. I wasn't getting good quality
stereo audio on the XM radio. We tried everything. Finally, somehow I
figured out it was a "slide switch" on my Bose headset.
Problem solved.
Yes, I have SVT. best thing since canned beer! I have flown many IFR (IMC) flights
with it and it's like looking out the window. I also love the audio warnings
it gives (you may not get audio until you upgrade to the 05 software).
Zack
robin1(at)mrmoisture.com wrote:
> Mistake #1. No I did not buy from Stein. It may make sense for me to pay
> an hourly phone rate to a technical expert on the subject. My issues are
> common in regards to upgrade paths. This is something a knowledgeable
> technician should know blindfolded.
>
> Have you ever upgraded your system software? I assume you must have
> since with the release of the new version due in Nov/Dec this will be 3
> updates in 12 months (from what I can tell).
>
> No my heading bug is not working because I am not up to _05 due to the
> calibration loss issue. I hope to resolve this in the coming week and
> perform the upgrade.
>
> Of note the group I purchased my G900X and all the other avionics
> suggested I take it over the a certified Garmin avionics shop to upgrade
> the system software. After the well respected local avionics shop called
> Garmin to confirm the process they came back to me with 4-5 hours labor
> at $110/hour. I have read the procedure, it's not very difficult or time
> consuming unless the whole calibration loss is thrown into the process?
> AGAIN I must be missing something unstated in the manual as there is no
> way anyone would design a procedure whereby you lose all this critical
> data that cannot be stored and reinstalled.
>
> Do you have SVT?
>
> Robin
>
>
> --
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265225#265225
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Neither one, actually. Comes off of the fuel servo right behind the
inlet connection, so it is the pressure the servo sees.
Any air in the line would tend to dampen pulsations, not cause them.
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Patrick Thyssen wrote:
>
> This is my last Question, Where is your fuel pressure coming off. Is it the spider
or the fuel pump? I believe most are coming from their fuel pump on the
rv10.
> Patrick Thyssen
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: new item for the rv-10 back seats |
That's the most expensive "mod" yet for the -10. CONGRATULATIONS!
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Sep 27, 2009, at 1:55 PM, Ben Westfall wrote:
> Hey guys I thought I=92d show you our newest =93add-on=94 for the
RV-10
> J. It goes in the back seat and adds to the beauty of the plane.
> Good thing we=92re building the 4 seater!
>
> Ben Westfall
> Portland, OR
> #40579 (Finish Kit)
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: new item for the rv-10 back seats |
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
I did four of those add-ons including a two for one deal (at three times the price).
Now the add-ons are adding on, but the next-gens are so much more user
friendly that it would have been nice to skip the previous gen and go next gen
direct.
Keep that precious picture of the eyes and mouth closed, and hand turned down instead
of up for money. It doesn't stay that way. An owner's manual or even
tech support would be nice too, but good luck with that.
The quick drains are effective and automatic, but there's no control over that
for quite some time.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265241#265241
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone |
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
You're right. I was measuring mine last night and they're all too long.
Not by a little, but by a lot!!! Almost 1.5 inches too long. I can't
believe they couldn't even get close.
One of them is so long that it sticks into the baggage door opening...
I also found another stupid thing in the mix too.
Directly above the baggage door are a couple of pieces of angle. You're
supposed to trim the bottom 3/8" off the entire length of the angle(s).
The goof balls just riveted the thing in place and never trimmed the
bottom flange down. That's not going to be a fun one to fix.
Also notice several missing pieces that were supposed to be included in
the QB part (not in the inventory) and they're just not installed and
not on the inventory list either.
The work is generally pretty good and they're still saving me a bunch of
time, but their attention to detail is terrible.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: nukeflyboy [mailto:flymoore(at)charter.net]
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 10:06 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone
I recall having a minor problem with my QB. If all the holes on the
skins don't line up perfectly check the longerons for interference.
They may be too long. Trim a little off if needed.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB - cabin top/fiberglass hell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265172#265172
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | James plenum question |
| From: | "Lenny Iszak" <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com> |
Those of you who installed the James plenum (Deems, Robin?), how did you get air
to the left side heat muff?
Thanks,
Lenny
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265254#265254
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: new item for the rv-10 back seats |
Hi Ben
I got a similar option for my pa28 years ago. For some reason the
option underwent numerous, unexpected upgrades, ADs, STCs and MSBs.
All required application of vast quantities of cash resulting in very
surprising results. YMMV.
Congrats
Les
Sent from my iPhone
On 2009-09-27, at 11:55 AM, Ben Westfall wrote:
> Hey guys I thought I=99d show you our newest =9Cadd-on
=9D for the
> RV-10 J. It goes in the back seat and adds to the beauty of the pla
> ne. Good thing we=99re building the 4 seater!
>
> Ben Westfall
> Portland, OR
> #40579 (Finish Kit)
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | new item for the rv-10 back seats |
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
Congrats Ben!
We went with the QB version too and it should be here around April 26th.
We decided to go with stork shipping instead of Partain this time
though.
Is this your first? I'm interested in learning how this new mod affects
your overall build time.
Phil
From: Ben Westfall [mailto:rv10(at)sinkrate.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 12:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: new item for the rv-10 back seats
Hey guys I thought I'd show you our newest "add-on" for the RV-10 J. It
goes in the back seat and adds to the beauty of the plane. Good thing
we're building the 4 seater!
Ben Westfall
Portland, OR
#40579 (Finish Kit)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: James plenum question |
Here's how I did the ones on my 6A.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lenny Iszak" <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 9:14 PM
Subject: RV10-List: James plenum question
>
> Those of you who installed the James plenum (Deems, Robin?), how did you
> get air to the left side heat muff?
>
> Thanks,
> Lenny
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265254#265254
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FireWall Engine Side Paint? |
| From: | "nukeflyboy" <flymoore(at)charter.net> |
The beauty of stainless steel is that is, well, stainless - and easy to clean.
A well painted surface is too. But you should reconsider a blanket on the firewall
side. I am serious about oil and dirt accumulation and it may not look
good after a while as well be a pain in the behind to install and clean.
I think that I just read that the allowable oil consumption for an IO-540 is 0.87
quarts per hour. Lycoming doesn't care if it is internal or external loss
and they do both.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB - cabin top/fiberglass hell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265263#265263
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: new item for the rv-10 back seats |
| From: | "nukeflyboy" <flymoore(at)charter.net> |
I hope the rear seats are vinyl. :D
Congratulations!
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB - cabin top/fiberglass hell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265264#265264
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Window trim - inside |
| From: | "nukeflyboy" <flymoore(at)charter.net> |
Redmond Air has fiberglass rings that cover the offending areas and I think will
help hold the headliner in place too. I have not bought them - just seen pictures.
Check redmondair.com
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB - cabin top/fiberglass hell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265265#265265
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | James plenum question |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> |
Lenny,
Because of high temp issues early on we upgraded and
relocated the oil cooler to accept RAM air from the front of the cowl.
We sealed the rear hole leaving all the cowl/plenum air for cooling the
cylinders. While I hope temps will not be an issue with your build I
suspect you will experience similar thermal challenges. Assuming I were
using the James Cowl/Plenum again (highly doubtful) I would consider
side louvers as the under cowl louvers were beneficial but still not
sufficient to keep temps in an acceptable range. I have even toyed with
the idea of converting the Plenum back to standard baffles but there are
too many unknowns to go that route at this point in time.
I hate to sound like an RV-List whiner dealing with the
Garmin issues and the James Cowl/Plenum cooling but these are real life
challenges and I sure hate to have people see my beautiful front end and
think it's all rainbows and unicorns. That being said I did display the
-10 at SBP Airport Day last Saturday sitting across from a fleet of
Cirrus and a bunch of other experimental & certified aircraft and we can
be pretty proud of the decision we made to build these airplanes. Once
you have a flying -10 there are some planes you no longer have the need
to envy.
Robin
Note: Ram Oil Cooler inlet just below Pilots Side Inlet
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lenny Iszak
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 6:15 PM
Subject: RV10-List: James plenum question
Those of you who installed the James plenum (Deems, Robin?), how did you
get air to the left side heat muff?
Thanks,
Lenny
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265254#265254
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/27/09 17:52:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone |
Be sure to give Van's your comments with regards to the workmanship as
well as the shortages, in writing.
Perry, Phil wrote:
>
> You're right. I was measuring mine last night and they're all too long.
> Not by a little, but by a lot!!! Almost 1.5 inches too long. I can't
> believe they couldn't even get close.
>
> One of them is so long that it sticks into the baggage door opening...
>
> I also found another stupid thing in the mix too.
>
> Directly above the baggage door are a couple of pieces of angle. You're
> supposed to trim the bottom 3/8" off the entire length of the angle(s).
> The goof balls just riveted the thing in place and never trimmed the
> bottom flange down. That's not going to be a fun one to fix.
>
> Also notice several missing pieces that were supposed to be included in
> the QB part (not in the inventory) and they're just not installed and
> not on the inventory list either.
>
> The work is generally pretty good and they're still saving me a bunch of
> time, but their attention to detail is terrible.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nukeflyboy [mailto:flymoore(at)charter.net]
> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 10:06 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Attaching QB Fuse to Tailcone
>
>
> I recall having a minor problem with my QB. If all the holes on the
> skins don't line up perfectly check the longerons for interference.
> They may be too long. Trim a little off if needed.
>
> --------
> Dave Moore
> RV-6 flying
> RV-10 QB - cabin top/fiberglass hell
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265172#265172
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Copperstate RV10 nest |
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
The second (and last), annual RV10 nest at Copperstate is a go.
Should be set up by Friday morning through Sat night for a shady place to relax.
Carne Asada mid day Saturday until its gone. Would like to get a rough head count
for planning purposes.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265270#265270
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Copperstate RV10 nest |
I plan on making it.
Kelly
woxofswa wrote:
>
> The second (and last), annual RV10 nest at Copperstate is a go.
>
> Should be set up by Friday morning through Sat night for a shady place to relax.
>
> Carne Asada mid day Saturday until its gone. Would like to get a rough head
count for planning purposes.
>
>
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265270#265270
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Souza <electspec(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copperstate RV10 nest |
Had a great time last year and the food was excellent, we'll be there this
year, count 4 more people in.
Bill Souza
RV-10
N279RB
--- On Sun, 9/27/09, woxofswa wrote:
> From: woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Copperstate RV10 nest
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 8:20 PM
> "woxofswa"
>
> The second (and last), annual RV10 nest at Copperstate is a
> go.
>
> Should be set up by Friday morning through Sat night for a
> shady place to relax.
>
> Carne Asada mid day Saturday until its gone. Would
> like to get a rough head count for planning purposes.
>
>
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265270#265270
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | new item for the rv-10 back seats |
Phil,
Yes first kid. The build came to a stand still early summer because we
decided to add on to the house. The remodel is about 60% of the way done so
we didn't quite get it done in time for the baby but were making due. I
don't envision getting back to the 10 for a month or two. I've been
chomping at the bit wanting to continue work on it but we'll see. Ask me
again in 3 - 4 months and I'll let you know.
One things for sure though it's hard to want to do much other than make
googly eyes at the baby. They sure tug on your heart strings. It's been
about 3 weeks and I don't feel at all like she's "taken away from anything".
quite the opposite. I think the joy/love you get from the whole experience
lessens the distraction from my first passion (flying/building). When the
non-stop crying sets in we'll just don our Zulu headsets!
-Ben
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: new item for the rv-10 back seats
Congrats Ben!
We went with the QB version too and it should be here around April 26th. We
decided to go with stork shipping instead of Partain this time though.
Is this your first? I'm interested in learning how this new mod affects
your overall build time.
Phil
From: Ben Westfall [mailto:rv10(at)sinkrate.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 12:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: new item for the rv-10 back seats
Hey guys I thought I'd show you our newest "add-on" for the RV-10 :-). It
goes in the back seat and adds to the beauty of the plane. Good thing we're
building the 4 seater!
Ben Westfall
Portland, OR
#40579 (Finish Kit)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: new item for the rv-10 back seats |
Myron that's too funny. I've seen a whole lot more of grandma now that the
kid is here so she might agree. Yes the quick drains right now leak quite
often... As all "next-gens" go you don't really appreciate them as much
unless you muddle through the first gen right??? Elyse is 3 weeks old now
and were having a blast!
-Ben
-----Original Message-----
I did four of those add-ons including a two for one deal (at three times the
price). Now the add-ons are adding on, but the next-gens are so much more
user friendly that it would have been nice to skip the previous gen and go
next gen direct.
Keep that precious picture of the eyes and mouth closed, and hand turned
down instead of up for money. It doesn't stay that way. An owner's manual
or even tech support would be nice too, but good luck with that.
The quick drains are effective and automatic, but there's no control over
that for quite some time.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Bibb" <rbibb(at)tomet.net> |
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
In following the thread on the James Plenum and various others with cooling
problems I have been thinking about potential alternatives for my RV-10
setup (it's down the road as I'm just starting main fuselage).
For the aerodynamicists out there: How would a larger intake scoop that had
in internal split to feed intake air as well as oil cooler input work IYHO?
I'm thinking making the inlet a large affair that has a flow divider to send
air into the FI body and a separate path (via flex hose) to the Oil Cooler,
This allows the plenum to concentrate on supplying cooling air to the
cylinders without having any flow diverted to the oil cooler. Similar to
Robin Marks approach shown below but with the input combined into one input
"hole" in the cowling.
As an electrical engineer I should know better than to delve into the world
of fluid dynamics but I figure that is what the "experimental" designation
is all about.
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
_____
Note: Ram Oil Cooler inlet just below Pilots Side Inlet
DSC08657 [Desktop Resolution].JPG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Caution, my current aircraft has an oil cooler mounted on the lower cowling
,
not much lower than where Robin's inlet is located. Unfortunately, the
manufacturer did no testing of that location, and in a climb it is enough o
f
a low pressure area that flow can actually reverse, passing from cylinder
bottoms out the oil cooler. Not good, and most every example I know of runs
210-215 oil temps. The only solution is for my aircraft is to relocate the
oil cooler to the rear top of the engine baffling. I suppose what really
needs examining is whether the engine air outlet is large enough or could
benefit from cowl flaps. It is unfortunate that the prototypes didn't get
any testing in AZ or TX to optimize engine cooling.
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Richard Bibb wrote:
> In following the thread on the James Plenum and various others with
> cooling problems I have been thinking about potential alternatives for my
> RV-10 setup (it=92s down the road as I=92m just starting main fuselage).
>
>
> For the aerodynamicists out there: How would a larger intake scoop that
> had in internal split to feed intake air as well as oil cooler input work
> IYHO? I=92m thinking making the inlet a large affair that has a flow div
ider
> to send air into the FI body and a separate path (via flex hose) to the O
il
> Cooler, This allows the plenum to concentrate on supplying cooling air t
o
> the cylinders without having any flow diverted to the oil cooler. Simila
r
> to Robin Marks approach shown below but
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au> |
| Subject: | Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
I am seeking some wise words of advice from the pioneers that have gone bef
ore me please, just to make sure that I've covered all my bases-before cl
osing the bottom skins.=0A=0ACould someone please tell me if there-are an
y prudent things that I should-consider prior to riveting on the bottom w
ing skins?=0A=0ATo date, I have routed all the wiring through conduits whic
h pass through the ribs; installed the pitot mast and plumbed the pitot lin
e; installed the pitot heater module; installed the roll servo and I've ass
embled the aileron trim mechanism.=0A=0AIs there anything that I may have f
orgotten to do please, you advice would be very much appreciated?=0A=0AKind
regards from down under.=0A=0APatrick Pulis=0A#40299-------
-- VH-XPP=0AAdelaide, South Australia-=0A=0A=0A ________________
__________________________________________________________________=0AGet mo
re done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail.=0ALearn more: http://au.overvi
ew.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
I have been considering the same problem on the -10 I'm building. So=2C eve
ry airshow I go to I look to see what other manufacturers have done. My fav
orite is the Navion that used a NACA duct plumbed down to the oil cooler. I
t came off the right side of the cowling. Simple and elegant.
Date: Mon=2C 28 Sep 2009 08:41:52 -0400
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
From: apilot2(at)gmail.com
Caution=2C my current aircraft has an oil cooler mounted on the lower cowli
ng=2C not much lower than where Robin's inlet is located. Unfortunately=2C
the manufacturer did no testing of that location=2C and in a climb it is en
ough of a low pressure area that flow can actually reverse=2C passing from
cylinder bottoms out the oil cooler. Not good=2C and most every example I k
now of runs 210-215 oil temps. The only solution is for my aircraft is to r
elocate the oil cooler to the rear top of the engine baffling. I suppose wh
at really needs examining is whether the engine air outlet is large enough
or could benefit from cowl flaps. It is unfortunate that the prototypes did
n't get any testing in AZ or TX to optimize engine cooling.
On Mon=2C Sep 28=2C 2009 at 7:23 AM=2C Richard Bibb wrote
:
In following the thread on the James Plenum and various others with cooling
problems I have been thinking about potential alternatives for my RV-10 se
tup (it=92s down the road as I=92m just starting main fuselage).
For the aerodynamicists out there: How would a larger intake scoop that ha
d in internal split to feed intake air as well as oil cooler input work IYH
O? I=92m thinking making the inlet a large affair that has a flow divider
to send air into the FI body and a separate path (via flex hose) to the Oil
Cooler=2C This allows the plenum to concentrate on supplying cooling air
to the cylinders without having any flow diverted to the oil cooler. Simil
ar to Robin Marks approach shown below but
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.=0A
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tut
orial_QuickAdd_062009
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Bibb" <rbibb(at)tomet.net> |
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
Well I wasn't thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just deriving
the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock location but perhaps
modified mount to reflect change in air source geometry) from a combined
induction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is to eliminate the source of air for
the oil cooer from the rear of the baffles (whether inside a plenum or not)
as to increase cooling air for the cylinders. That creates the problem of
creating an air source for the cooler. Rather than create a separate inlet
I was thinking of creating a larger "mouth" on the below-cowl scoop for the
induction and creating some sort of flow divider to send some air to the
inlet and some to the cooler.
Not being educated in fluid dynamics I'm looking for general guidelines as
to an efficient method of engineering such an inlet/splitter combo.
Thanks for the warning...
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
Caution, my current aircraft has an oil cooler mounted on the lower cowling,
not much lower than where Robin's inlet is located. Unfortunately, the
manufacturer did no testing of that location, and in a climb it is enough of
a low pressure area that flow can actually reverse, passing from cylinder
bottoms out the oil cooler. Not good, and most every example I know of runs
210-215 oil temps. The only solution is for my aircraft is to relocate the
oil cooler to the rear top of the engine baffling. I suppose what really
needs examining is whether the engine air outlet is large enough or could
benefit from cowl flaps. It is unfortunate that the prototypes didn't get
any testing in AZ or TX to optimize engine cooling.
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Richard Bibb wrote:
In following the thread on the James Plenum and various others with cooling
problems I have been thinking about potential alternatives for my RV-10
setup (it's down the road as I'm just starting main fuselage).
For the aerodynamicists out there: How would a larger intake scoop that had
in internal split to feed intake air as well as oil cooler input work IYHO?
I'm thinking making the inlet a large affair that has a flow divider to send
air into the FI body and a separate path (via flex hose) to the Oil Cooler,
This allows the plenum to concentrate on supplying cooling air to the
cylinders without having any flow diverted to the oil cooler. Similar to
Robin Marks approach shown below but
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: James plenum question |
| From: | "Lenny Iszak" <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com> |
Robin,
Thanks for you input. That's a brave idea to cut into the lower cowling and move
the oil cooler. How did it work out? By the way, do you have some before and
after numbers for oil temps?
I have the stock engine, so I hope I'm not going to have too high temps but everyone
reassures me that I will so life is good, i'm assured to have a "hot" airplane
:)
Were your CHTs ok? Did closing off the oil cooler hole in the back help your CHTs
at all?
Lenny
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265303#265303
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
Like you, my background is in electronics, so my comments may not help!
I don't think the problem is in robbing the available air from the
cylinders, it's finding a balance in the area of entrance air Vs exit
air, and finding a less-obstructed path for the air. Lopresti was an
expert at it, and his son is carrying on the effort. Look at the size
of the holes in some 'certificated' cowls Vs the Swift Fury or the
Lancair. I'll go the plenum route ..... cowl seals leak ..... and I'll
use a manometer to try and balance the pressures. Providing for good
exit flows seem to help a lot.
Linn
Richard Bibb wrote:
> Well I wasnt thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just
> deriving the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock location
> but perhaps modified mount to reflect change in air source geometry)
> from a combined induction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is to eliminate
> the source of air for the oil cooer from the rear of the baffles
> (whether inside a plenum or not) as to increase cooling air for the
> cylinders. That creates the problem of creating an air source for the
> cooler. Rather than create a separate inlet I was thinking of creating
> a larger mouth on the below-cowl scoop for the induction and creating
> some sort of flow divider to send some air to the inlet and some to the
> cooler.
>
>
>
> Not being educated in fluid dynamics Im looking for general guidelines
> as to an efficient method of engineering such an inlet/splitter combo.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the warning..
>
>
>
> Richard Bibb
>
> 972-771-2598
>
> 972-835-5979 mobile
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Bibb" <rbibb(at)tomet.net> |
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
My thought was it would be easier to balance the flow if you didn't have a
big 3" round exit on one side of the engine. But I'm waiting for the
aerodynamicists to weigh in here...
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
Like you, my background is in electronics, so my comments may not help!
I don't think the problem is in robbing the available air from the
cylinders, it's finding a balance in the area of entrance air Vs exit
air, and finding a less-obstructed path for the air. Lopresti was an
expert at it, and his son is carrying on the effort. Look at the size
of the holes in some 'certificated' cowls Vs the Swift Fury or the
Lancair. I'll go the plenum route ..... cowl seals leak ..... and I'll
use a manometer to try and balance the pressures. Providing for good
exit flows seem to help a lot.
Linn
Richard Bibb wrote:
> Well I wasn't thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just
> deriving the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock location
> but perhaps modified mount to reflect change in air source geometry)
> from a combined induction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is to eliminate
> the source of air for the oil cooer from the rear of the baffles
> (whether inside a plenum or not) as to increase cooling air for the
> cylinders. That creates the problem of creating an air source for the
> cooler. Rather than create a separate inlet I was thinking of creating
> a larger "mouth" on the below-cowl scoop for the induction and creating
> some sort of flow divider to send some air to the inlet and some to the
> cooler.
>
>
>
> Not being educated in fluid dynamics I'm looking for general guidelines
> as to an efficient method of engineering such an inlet/splitter combo.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the warning...
>
>
>
> Richard Bibb
>
> 972-771-2598
>
> 972-835-5979 mobile
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Copperstate RV10 nest |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> |
I am going and bringing fellow RV-10 Builder Jearl Strickland. Two
total.
Robin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
pushrods and bellcranks.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:22 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins?
I am seeking some wise words of advice from the pioneers that have gone
before me please, just to make sure that I've covered all my bases before
closing the bottom skins.
Could someone please tell me if there are any prudent things that I should
consider prior to riveting on the bottom wing skins?
To date, I have routed all the wiring through conduits which pass through
the ribs; installed the pitot mast and plumbed the pitot line; installed the
pitot heater module; installed the roll servo and I've assembled the aileron
trim mechanism.
Is there anything that I may have forgotten to do please, you advice would
be very much appreciated?
Kind regards from down under.
Patrick Pulis
#40299 VH-XPP
Adelaide, South Australia
_____
Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more
<http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/launch09/tagline/*http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc
X3oDMTFnY201cHJnBHRtX2RtZWNoA1RleHQgTGluawR0bV9sbmsDVTExMDQ3NjAEdG1fbmV0A1lh
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | FWF bag contents breakdown |
Does anyone have a bag breakdown from the FWF kit?
1.000 BAG 520 MISC. AN BOLTS
1.000 BAG 521 MISC. WASHERS
1.000 BAG 522 MISC. FITTINGS/CLAMPS
1.000 BAG 523-1 FITTINGS/MISC.
1.000 BAG 524 MISC. CLAMPS
1.000 BAG 525-1 MISC/BEARINGS
1.000 BAG 526 AEROSPACE EXH HARDWRE
I called Van's and was told they are on the plans.
Thank you!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
The Navion had the oil cooler mounted on the firewall but the NACA duct was
on the cowl side with SCAT tube running back about 24" to the oil cooler a
nd ducting downward. There has been demonstrated to be very little air ente
ring the front of the cowl behind the prop in a lot of the angles of flight
. The sides alway pretty much has air passing over them.
From: rbibb(at)tomet.net
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
Date: Mon=2C 28 Sep 2009 08:57:21 -0500
Well I wasn=92t thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just derivi
ng the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock location but perhaps
modified mount to reflect change in air source geometry) from a combined i
nduction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is to eliminate the source of air for
the oil cooer from the rear of the baffles (whether inside a plenum or not)
as to increase cooling air for the cylinders. That creates the problem of
creating an air source for the cooler. Rather than create a separate inle
t I was thinking of creating a larger =93mouth=94 on the below-cowl scoop
for the induction and creating some sort of flow divider to send some air t
o the inlet and some to the cooler.
Not being educated in fluid dynamics I=92m looking for general guidelines a
s to an efficient method of engineering such an inlet/splitter combo.
Thanks for the warning=85..
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Monday=2C September 28=2C 2009 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
Caution=2C my current aircraft has an oil cooler mounted on the lower cowli
ng=2C not much lower than where Robin's inlet is located. Unfortunately=2C
the manufacturer did no testing of that location=2C and in a climb it is en
ough of a low pressure area that flow can actually reverse=2C passing from
cylinder bottoms out the oil cooler. Not good=2C and most every example I k
now of runs 210-215 oil temps. The only solution is for my aircraft is to r
elocate the oil cooler to the rear top of the engine baffling. I suppose wh
at really needs examining is whether the engine air outlet is large enough
or could benefit from cowl flaps. It is unfortunate that the prototypes did
n't get any testing in AZ or TX to optimize engine cooling.
On Mon=2C Sep 28=2C 2009 at 7:23 AM=2C Richard Bibb wrote
:
In following the thread on the James Plenum and various others with cooling
problems I have been thinking about potential alternatives for my RV-10 se
tup (it=92s down the road as I=92m just starting main fuselage).
For the aerodynamicists out there: How would a larger intake scoop that ha
d in internal split to feed intake air as well as oil cooler input work IYH
O? I=92m thinking making the inlet a large affair that has a flow divider
to send air into the FI body and a separate path (via flex hose) to the Oil
Cooler=2C This allows the plenum to concentrate on supplying cooling air
to the cylinders without having any flow diverted to the oil cooler. Simil
ar to Robin Marks approach shown below but
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Hotmail=AE has ever-growing storage! Don=92t worry about storage limits.=0A
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tuto
rial_Storage_062009
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FWF bag contents breakdown |
| From: | "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net> |
This is from Tim's site so it's a little old:
http://www.myrv10.com/files/kitparts/RV10_FWF_Kit_Hardware.pdf
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265329#265329
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
| From: | "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Exit flows. Delta P seems to be the most productive area of pursuit.
Get the low pressure lower cowl more efficient at extraction - both the
plenum air and the exhaust gases.
John Cox - a LoPresti follower and fan of Fred Moreno's reports.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Bibb
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 8:26 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
My thought was it would be easier to balance the flow if you didn't have
a
big 3" round exit on one side of the engine. But I'm waiting for the
aerodynamicists to weigh in here...
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
Like you, my background is in electronics, so my comments may not help!
I don't think the problem is in robbing the available air from the
cylinders, it's finding a balance in the area of entrance air Vs exit
air, and finding a less-obstructed path for the air. Lopresti was an
expert at it, and his son is carrying on the effort. Look at the size
of the holes in some 'certificated' cowls Vs the Swift Fury or the
Lancair. I'll go the plenum route ..... cowl seals leak ..... and I'll
use a manometer to try and balance the pressures. Providing for good
exit flows seem to help a lot.
Linn
Richard Bibb wrote:
> Well I wasn't thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just
> deriving the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock location
> but perhaps modified mount to reflect change in air source geometry)
> from a combined induction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is to eliminate
> the source of air for the oil cooer from the rear of the baffles
> (whether inside a plenum or not) as to increase cooling air for the
> cylinders. That creates the problem of creating an air source for the
> cooler. Rather than create a separate inlet I was thinking of
creating
> a larger "mouth" on the below-cowl scoop for the induction and
creating
> some sort of flow divider to send some air to the inlet and some to
the
> cooler.
>
>
>
> Not being educated in fluid dynamics I'm looking for general
guidelines
> as to an efficient method of engineering such an inlet/splitter combo.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the warning...
>
>
>
> Richard Bibb
>
> 972-771-2598
>
> 972-835-5979 mobile
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
| From: | "Nick Leonard" <nick(at)nleonard.com> |
This is an interesting discussion. I have a friend (Bob Cole) with an RV-6 that
has done some extensive modifications to his cowling and I plan to follow in
his footsteps. Let me tell you a little about Bob. He couldn't get the performance
that he expected from the Katto prop he had made so he learned about prop
design and manufacturing and made his own. He is on his fourth 'tweak' (prop)
and has it just about what he considers perfect. He decided to build his
own exhaust system so he learned about designing balanced flow exhaust systems
and made his own. He has since made several further modifications to further
improve the performance and keeps working on the next knot of speed, degree
of cooling, etc. In each case he gets a base line measurement of performance
before he makes his changes (they don't all make it better).
So about improving cooling. Bob's approach has been to use an airspeed indicator
to measure the change in the differential air pressure before and after any
airflow modifications. He simply runs the indicator tubes to the front and back
of the testing area, gets a baseline and checks again after the change. Like
many others, he found that reducing the air inlet area on the cowling improved
the air flow through the cowling. Something about air being damned up in
that area when the opening is too large, which is typical of the Van's design.
He also worked on getting the air out more effectively with a ramp on the back
of the cowl. One of the things that made a big difference for him was to pay
special attention on making sure that the seal to the engine baffling was 100%
effective (no leaks). It is the simple things that can make the biggest difference.
I saw how much information you can get from the measurement of the differential
pressure (air speed indicator) throughout the engine area that I installed a
small device from Honeywell (sourced from Allied Electronics) that will allow
me to electronically do what Bob has done without having to run the tubes through
the firewall (2-wires). I expect to make various modification to the -10
for cooling efficiency, etc. (not flying yet).
The bottom line to this conversation is that getting more air into the cowling
is often more of a problem than a solution. Also, get a good baseline measurement
before you make any changes. And also to thank the Bob's of the world for
their curiosity, intelligence, gumption and incredible talent.
--------
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Finish
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265331#265331
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
| From: | "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
High angles of attack coupled with higher ambient temperatures certainly
would have skewed the design results. Being in the Northern climate and
cooler temperature your idea holds strong merit. Too bad a great design
could not be reconsidered by the Parts Manufacturer.
Much of the trailblazing is being done by the great group of "Early
Adapters" south of the Oregon border.
John - Aurora, OR
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
Caution, my current aircraft has an oil cooler mounted on the lower
cowling, not much lower than where Robin's inlet is located.
Unfortunately, the manufacturer did no testing of that location, and in
a climb it is enough of a low pressure area that flow can actually
reverse, passing from cylinder bottoms out the oil cooler. Not good, and
most every example I know of runs 210-215 oil temps. The only solution
is for my aircraft is to relocate the oil cooler to the rear top of the
engine baffling. I suppose what really needs examining is whether the
engine air outlet is large enough or could benefit from cowl flaps. It
is unfortunate that the prototypes didn't get any testing in AZ or TX to
optimize engine cooling.
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Richard Bibb wrote:
In following the thread on the James Plenum and various others with
cooling problems I have been thinking about potential alternatives for
my RV-10 setup (it's down the road as I'm just starting main fuselage).
For the aerodynamicists out there: How would a larger intake scoop that
had in internal split to feed intake air as well as oil cooler input
work IYHO? I'm thinking making the inlet a large affair that has a flow
divider to send air into the FI body and a separate path (via flex hose)
to the Oil Cooler, This allows the plenum to concentrate on supplying
cooling air to the cylinders without having any flow diverted to the oil
cooler. Similar to Robin Marks approach shown below but
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
I'll venture into the oil cooler mount/high temp waters with some thoughts:
1. There was a good article a few months back in one of the kit magazines
on cooling air flow into the engine. The bottom line is once the top of the
cowl (or plenum) is pressurized, the cylinder airflow (lbm/hr) is fairly
uniform. My take from this is the air coming off the back for the oil
cooler does not affect one side more than the other.
2. This article also discussed the relatively high pressure area at the
front top of the cowl caused by air bouncing off the rear baffle. The
lesson learned is make sure the front cowl seal is in good shape.
3. The third take away from the article is huge gain received from
smoothing the cowl air inlet passages. For the James cowl this is done by
design. For the Van's cowl this is done by adding the top cowl inlet ramps.
4. While the standard Van's mount has clear advantage for installation
ease, I can't see how multiple redirections of air flow can go any good. I
am not using this standard oil cooler mount in my project.
5. Talking with others, I get the impression that the mid/aft cowl region
is a relatively high pressure area. This would contribute to a lower
differential pressure across the oil cooler (in the standard mount) and thus
lower air flow.
6. The other heat problem I see are the cabin heat valves. As they are
shut on hot days, the more than ample heat muff hot air bounces off the
closed valves directly toward the fuel pump. In addition to heating the
wrong component, I would guess this additional air pressure in the aft mid
cowl region contributes to the less than adequate differential pressure
across the oil cooler in the standard mount.
What I'm doing:
1. Using the James Cowl and plenum
2. Mounting the oil cooler aft of the rear baffle with a direct connection
for air flow.
3. Mounted Cool Mat between the cabin heat valves and over the top and
front of the valves. The objective is to isolate radiant heat from the
firewall and tunnel and redirect the unused hot air down toward the bottom
of the cowl.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (500 hrs)
RV-10 (fuselage make it pretty fiberglass work)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Bibb
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:26 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
My thought was it would be easier to balance the flow if you didn't have a
big 3" round exit on one side of the engine. But I'm waiting for the
aerodynamicists to weigh in here...
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
Like you, my background is in electronics, so my comments may not help!
I don't think the problem is in robbing the available air from the
cylinders, it's finding a balance in the area of entrance air Vs exit
air, and finding a less-obstructed path for the air. Lopresti was an
expert at it, and his son is carrying on the effort. Look at the size
of the holes in some 'certificated' cowls Vs the Swift Fury or the
Lancair. I'll go the plenum route ..... cowl seals leak ..... and I'll
use a manometer to try and balance the pressures. Providing for good
exit flows seem to help a lot.
Linn
Richard Bibb wrote:
> Well I wasn't thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just
> deriving the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock location
> but perhaps modified mount to reflect change in air source geometry)
> from a combined induction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is to eliminate
> the source of air for the oil cooer from the rear of the baffles
> (whether inside a plenum or not) as to increase cooling air for the
> cylinders. That creates the problem of creating an air source for the
> cooler. Rather than create a separate inlet I was thinking of creating
> a larger "mouth" on the below-cowl scoop for the induction and creating
> some sort of flow divider to send some air to the inlet and some to the
> cooler.
>
>
>
> Not being educated in fluid dynamics I'm looking for general guidelines
> as to an efficient method of engineering such an inlet/splitter combo.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the warning...
>
>
>
> Richard Bibb
>
> 972-771-2598
>
> 972-835-5979 mobile
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Copperstate RV10 nest |
| From: | "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
John Cox & Greg Guy from Oregon = 2, so let us know how we can sweeten
the pot financially for the fabulous job done last year. If LOE is the
same weekend, sorry guys, there are prettier RV-10s in Arizona this time
of year and too many non RV-10 builders can spoil a great get together.
I am surprised no one posted the turnout from the VANS annual get
together from Independence (7S5) back at the first of the month.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of woxofswa
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 8:20 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Copperstate RV10 nest
The second (and last), annual RV10 nest at Copperstate is a go.
Should be set up by Friday morning through Sat night for a shady place
to relax.
Carne Asada mid day Saturday until its gone. Would like to get a rough
head count for planning purposes.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265270#265270
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FWF bag contents breakdown |
BTW- I called Vans support on the FF1 instructions covered on FF1-3 (figure
2) for the DWG-7 clamps that are attached to the firewall and hold the VA133
(oil pressure hose). Was told that now that they have a new vendor for their
hoses the VA-133 is slimmer and needs the DWG-5 clamp. This does not apply
to older kits that have the older hoses.
Thanks Todd for the response. Missed that on Tim's page- and I did look.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:12 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: FWF bag contents breakdown
>
> This is from Tim's site so it's a little old:
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/files/kitparts/RV10_FWF_Kit_Hardware.pdf
>
> --------
> Todd Stovall
> 728TT (reserved)
> RV-10 Empacone, Wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265329#265329
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: James plenum question |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> |
Lenny,
I no longer have any specific numbers but here is a thumbnail of
our development.
First we worked closely with Airflow Performance who loaned us a
Manometer to test differential pressure (DP) in many different areas on
our set up. We probably relocated and tested DP's in 20+ different
areas. It was immediately obvious that the DP over the oil cooler was
very poor. And in the case of the oil cooler wedge the DP was small and
not evenly distributed meaning that the upper portion of the cooler was
receiving most of the minimal airflow while the lower 1/3 had almost no
airflow so 1/3rd of the cooler was just along for the ride. In rough
numbers we were getting DP's of between 0.7 to 1.5 "W/C. We tried a
bunch of different configurations with the oil cooler temperately
supported in different areas. We also tested DP from the top of the
engine to the bottom and near the outlet area. The DP was just not that
significant in our set up to drive the air through the cylinders and out
the bottom of the cowl. If our thinking was correct and we were not
seeing a large DP over the cylinders than most likely much of the
cooling air was reversing out the inlet holes causing two issues,
minimal cooling and disturbed aerodynamic as the airflow is pouring out
the front of the cowl instead of down & out the underside.. Once we knew
that we first worked on opening up the bottom of the cowl by trimming
back & adding first one set of AFP louvers then a second set of louvers.
This helped substantially but still not enough to drive out CHTs' under
400.
After exhausting all other likely options we decided that the
CHT/EGT issue was one in the same and that we were not going to get the
CHT's lower till we got the oil temps inline. We seem to always have
CHT's two times Oil Temps (215/430, 212/425...). We decided that
pulling hot air off the engine and running it through the largest oil
cooler AFP makes was not enough so we chose to seal up the back end of
the plenum providing more cooling air to the cylinders and cutting a RAM
air inlet for a high volume of cooler air direct to the oil cooler. The
DP results were immediate. We went from 0.7-1.2 "W/C (depending on the
phase of flight) to 7.0-9.0 "W/C. That is a HUGE change over the cooler.
This made the plane flyable and brought our oil temps to about 220-230
in climb and 210 in cruise. CHT's were now 410-420 in cruise. Please
keep in mind this was a brand new engine that tends to run hot for up to
150 hours. I am now at 85 hours and am seeing further settling down of
both CHT's & oil tempts. Again the oil temps are coming down slightly
because the CHT's are a bit lower. Unfortunately they are both still
higher than I would like and probably higher than optimal.
So the major improvements came when we opened up the bottom of
the cowl and when we plumbed RAM air to the oil cooler. Still none of
these numbers are great or even good in my opinion but I can now fly the
plane consistently with numbers that are not detrimental to the engine.
My plan is to get past 150 hours TT and see where the engine settles in
temp wise. Additionally I am working on optimizing for LOP which should
really help the temps all the way around.
I have to say I am a bit surprised that most standard build
-10's still using the wedge and original oil cooler do not have greater
temp problems. I do live in CA with high OAT's but still our numbers are
still too high to be acceptable.
The one option we did not try was to place a louver on the side
of the lower cowl and orient the back side of the oil cooler towards
that louver. Some have added these side louvers (one or both sides) with
some success (I believe). We did not want to ruin the appearance of the
nose area but in retrospect anything that improves functions is probably
better looking than Yellow or Red warning indications on your PFD.
To those that are to follow us down the path of alternate
cowl/plenum I can only say good luck. This mod has cost us significantly
more time & money to develop than we ever thought it could. Add the
potential costs of an engine not going to TBO and the stock Vans cowl is
looking better & better all the time. That Van is a smart guy. Finally
the hassle of having to remove the plenum every time you want to take a
look at something quadruples (or worse) the amount of time it takes to
remove the lid. I can take my top cowl off in 90 seconds. The plenum is
another story even with our simple attachment mechanism It's 5-7 minutes
off and 10 minutes on plus wear & tear.
I have to say that so many of my original ideas in aviation were
wrong. I always thought I wanted retract aircraft till I owned several
of them. I then discovered the retracts can be a pain in the rear by
adding complexity, weight & maintenance costs, plus increase insurance
rates. I hope to never own a retract again (Pilatus excluded). Same goes
for the beauty of the round inlet cowls that have ZERO engineering
behind them. Don't fool yourself, these cowls are originally crafted for
looks. No one did 3D modeling, computer simulations, critical airflow
analysis, probably not even a slide rule or an abacus to generate this
design. Just another pretty face. And hot too! But the wrong type of hot
unfortunately. Throw in the pressure issues trying to run LOP vs. the
standard cowl and you may have more R&D than you were planning to
perform once you plane is past Phase 1.
Again off to the airport for my regular commute.
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lenny Iszak
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 7:04 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: James plenum question
Robin,
Thanks for you input. That's a brave idea to cut into the lower cowling
and move the oil cooler. How did it work out? By the way, do you have
some before and after numbers for oil temps?
I have the stock engine, so I hope I'm not going to have too high temps
but everyone reassures me that I will so life is good, i'm assured to
have a "hot" airplane :)
Were your CHTs ok? Did closing off the oil cooler hole in the back help
your CHTs at all?
Lenny
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265303#265303
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/27/09 17:52:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Souza <electspec(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Copperstate RV10 nest |
John,
A must go too. If anyone has not attended before. A large RV community
grathering. LOE dates are OCT 9th thru 11th, Santa Teresa Airport (5T6), NW..
Copperstate, OCT 22nd thru 24th, Casa Grande Airport (KCGZ), AZ.
So no conflicts here between the two RV gatherings.
Will be going to both.
Member SoCal RV Group
Bill Souza
RV-10
N279RB
--- On Mon, 9/28/09, John Cox wrote:
> From: John Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Copperstate RV10 nest
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 9:35 AM
> "John Cox"
>
> John Cox & Greg Guy from Oregon = 2, so let us know how
> we can sweeten
> the pot financially for the fabulous job done last
> year. If LOE is the
> same weekend, sorry guys, there are prettier RV-10s in
> Arizona this time
> of year and too many non RV-10 builders can spoil a great
> get together.
>
> I am surprised no one posted the turnout from the VANS
> annual get
> together from Independence (7S5) back at the first of the
> month.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of woxofswa
> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 8:20 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Copperstate RV10 nest
>
>
> The second (and last), annual RV10 nest at Copperstate is a
> go.
>
> Should be set up by Friday morning through Sat night for a
> shady place
> to relax.
>
> Carne Asada mid day Saturday until its gone. Would
> like to get a rough
> head count for planning purposes.
>
>
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265270#265270
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | new item for the rv-10 back seats |
Congrats Ben! She looks beautiful.
Congrats also to Jesse, quite the clan you are building!
The RV-10 sure is a great family airplane. Ironically I am at the other end
of the spectrum and switched from a RV-7 to the -10 because my girls went
and grew up somehow. I thought it would be the best way to try and keep the
family together with them venturing off to college and beyond. Let me tell
you, it works! I have lived 12-14 hours drive from them for the past few
years and the 4 hour trip in the -10 is much more palatable as well as
possible on a busy schedule.
Marcus
40286
From: Ben Westfall [mailto:rv10(at)sinkrate.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 12:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: new item for the rv-10 back seats
Hey guys I thought I'd show you our newest "add-on" for the RV-10 J. It
goes in the back seat and adds to the beauty of the plane. Good thing we're
building the 4 seater!
Ben Westfall
Portland, OR
#40579 (Finish Kit)
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
"I installed a small device from Honeywell (sourced from Allied Electronics
) that will allow me to electronically"......could you be a bit more specif
ic about this device. Sounds like something I need to look at. Very interes
ting discussion! Dan
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
> From: nick(at)nleonard.com
> Date: Mon=2C 28 Sep 2009 09:23:36 -0700
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> This is an interesting discussion. I have a friend (Bob Cole) with an RV-
6 that has done some extensive modifications to his cowling and I plan to f
ollow in his footsteps. Let me tell you a little about Bob. He couldn't get
the performance that he expected from the Katto prop he had made so he lea
rned about prop design and manufacturing and made his own. He is on his fou
rth 'tweak' (prop) and has it just about what he considers perfect. He deci
ded to build his own exhaust system so he learned about designing balanced
flow exhaust systems and made his own. He has since made several further mo
difications to further improve the performance and keeps working on the nex
t knot of speed=2C degree of cooling=2C etc. In each case he gets a base li
ne measurement of performance before he makes his changes (they don't all m
ake it better).
>
> So about improving cooling. Bob's approach has been to use an airspeed in
dicator to measure the change in the differential air pressure before and a
fter any airflow modifications. He simply runs the indicator tubes to the f
ront and back of the testing area=2C gets a baseline and checks again after
the change. Like many others=2C he found that reducing the air inlet area
on the cowling improved the air flow through the cowling. Something about a
ir being damned up in that area when the opening is too large=2C which is t
ypical of the Van's design. He also worked on getting the air out more effe
ctively with a ramp on the back of the cowl. One of the things that made a
big difference for him was to pay special attention on making sure that the
seal to the engine baffling was 100% effective (no leaks). It is the simpl
e things that can make the biggest difference.
>
> I saw how much information you can get from the measurement of the differ
ential pressure (air speed indicator) throughout the engine area that I ins
talled a small device from Honeywell (sourced from Allied Electronics) that
will allow me to electronically do what Bob has done without having to run
the tubes through the firewall (2-wires). I expect to make various modific
ation to the -10 for cooling efficiency=2C etc. (not flying yet).
>
> The bottom line to this conversation is that getting more air into the co
wling is often more of a problem than a solution. Also=2C get a good baseli
ne measurement before you make any changes. And also to thank the Bob's of
the world for their curiosity=2C intelligence=2C gumption and incredible ta
lent.
>
> --------
> Nick Leonard
> RV-10 (40015) Finish
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265331#265331
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing=99 now=0A
http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_ta
gline_try bing_1x1
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Copperstate RV10 nest |
| From: | "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Some guys have all the luck. Say high to the RV-10 corral. I try to stay away
from large groups after getting my OSH fix each summer;-)
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Souza
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:30 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Copperstate RV10 nest
John,
A must go too. If anyone has not attended before. A large RV community
grathering. LOE dates are OCT 9th thru 11th, Santa Teresa Airport (5T6), NW..
Copperstate, OCT 22nd thru 24th, Casa Grande Airport (KCGZ), AZ.
So no conflicts here between the two RV gatherings.
Will be going to both.
Member SoCal RV Group
Bill Souza
RV-10
N279RB
--- On Mon, 9/28/09, John Cox wrote:
> From: John Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Copperstate RV10 nest
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 9:35 AM
> "John Cox"
>
> John Cox & Greg Guy from Oregon = 2, so let us know how
> we can sweeten
> the pot financially for the fabulous job done last
> year. If LOE is the
> same weekend, sorry guys, there are prettier RV-10s in
> Arizona this time
> of year and too many non RV-10 builders can spoil a great
> get together.
>
> I am surprised no one posted the turnout from the VANS
> annual get
> together from Independence (7S5) back at the first of the
> month.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of woxofswa
> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 8:20 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Copperstate RV10 nest
>
>
> The second (and last), annual RV10 nest at Copperstate is a
> go.
>
> Should be set up by Friday morning through Sat night for a
> shady place
> to relax.
>
> Carne Asada mid day Saturday until its gone. Would
> like to get a rough
> head count for planning purposes.
>
>
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265270#265270
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
I don't know the builder or owner..
Phil
=================
Airframe Info
Manufacturer:
Koonce John P <http://www.airport-data.com/manuf/Koonce_John_P.html>
Model:
RV-10 \
Year built:
2007
Construction Number (C/N):
40428
Number of Seats:
4
Number of Engines:
1
Engine Manufacturer and Model:
Lycoming IO-540-D4A5
Owner
Registration Type:
Individual
Address:
Jefferson City, MO 65109
United States
Region:
Central
Status
Certification Class:
Experimental
Certification Issued:
2007-02-06
Air Worthiness Test:
2007-06-13
Last Action Taken:
2007-02-06
Current Status:
Valid
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: door
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing:
N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com> |
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real f
irm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
Date: Mon=2C 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF=2C PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT=2C LANDED W
ITHOUT
INCIDENT=2C JEFFERSON CITY=2C MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk
:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk
:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk
:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.=0A
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tut
orial_QuickAdd_062009
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cumins" <jcumins(at)jcis.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FireWall Engine Side Paint? |
I would not recommend you use any firewall material on the engine
compartment firewall side. It will not work and will not last and will
suckup any and all fluids in the compnartment and become a fire hazard.
Using it on the cabin side is where most people and manufactures place this.
John G. Cumins
AP
40864 Trim Tabs 98% done
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of conradb
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 8:26 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: FireWall Engine Side Paint?
Another person mentioned that the firewall could become in excess of 200
degree during shutdown/cooling off period. He also mentioned that using a
foil/heat blanket barrier from Spruce Aircraft Supply on the engine side of
the firewall. So what I think I'll do is remove the existing low temp
paint, repaint with high temp paint and use a barrier material on BOTH sides
of the firewall to keep the sound and temps low and the avionics cooler.
--------
Conrad Booze
Sr. Engineer
P. O. Box 7028
Warner Robins, GA. 31095
(478)-335-4264
conradbooze(at)cox.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265176#265176
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
This is a familiar topic. ;-) I have the James cowl/Plenum,
Live in AZ and have to deal with heat issues (Today's high will reach
107!). I have been through several machinations in an attempt to deal
with heat. Ton's of louvers on bottom of cowl, increasing the lower cowl
exit area 5-10%. Plenum rework, baffle sealing. I still have the oil
cooler mounted in the stock (Van's) location. My current temps are
'manageable'. Everything is linked directly to OAT, the cooler the
better. With OAT of approx 90-95, On Take Off, I will see Oil temps
climb to 210-215 if I keep airspeed up to 120-130 kts. Hottest cyls CHT
seem to peak @ 400-405. At altitude oil temps come back to 195 and CHT
to 360-380. On our trip back east (ie. cooler temps) we saw oil temps
175-185. I consider my temperatures on the high side, but am worried
about overreacting until I get some more experience in some lower
temperatures.
One approach I have considered is relocating the oil cooler to behind
the baffle (#6 likely). Initially I didn't think there was enough room,
however I saw an installation on an F1 Rocket
http://www.pflanzer-aviation.com/Engine9.html which got me thinking, I
borrowed an unmounted oil cooler and did a loose test fit and I think it
could be made to work.
Deems Davis
www.deemsrv10.com
N519PJ
Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> I'll venture into the oil cooler mount/high temp waters with some thoughts:
> 1. There was a good article a few months back in one of the kit magazines
> on cooling air flow into the engine. The bottom line is once the top of the
> cowl (or plenum) is pressurized, the cylinder airflow (lbm/hr) is fairly
> uniform. My take from this is the air coming off the back for the oil
> cooler does not affect one side more than the other.
> 2. This article also discussed the relatively high pressure area at the
> front top of the cowl caused by air bouncing off the rear baffle. The
> lesson learned is make sure the front cowl seal is in good shape.
> 3. The third take away from the article is huge gain received from
> smoothing the cowl air inlet passages. For the James cowl this is done by
> design. For the Van's cowl this is done by adding the top cowl inlet ramps.
> 4. While the standard Van's mount has clear advantage for installation
> ease, I can't see how multiple redirections of air flow can go any good. I
> am not using this standard oil cooler mount in my project.
> 5. Talking with others, I get the impression that the mid/aft cowl region
> is a relatively high pressure area. This would contribute to a lower
> differential pressure across the oil cooler (in the standard mount) and thus
> lower air flow.
> 6. The other heat problem I see are the cabin heat valves. As they are
> shut on hot days, the more than ample heat muff hot air bounces off the
> closed valves directly toward the fuel pump. In addition to heating the
> wrong component, I would guess this additional air pressure in the aft mid
> cowl region contributes to the less than adequate differential pressure
> across the oil cooler in the standard mount.
>
> What I'm doing:
> 1. Using the James Cowl and plenum
> 2. Mounting the oil cooler aft of the rear baffle with a direct connection
> for air flow.
> 3. Mounted Cool Mat between the cabin heat valves and over the top and
> front of the valves. The objective is to isolate radiant heat from the
> firewall and tunnel and redirect the unused hot air down toward the bottom
> of the cowl.
>
> Carl Froehlich
> RV-8A (500 hrs)
> RV-10 (fuselage make it pretty fiberglass work)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Bibb
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:26 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
>
>
> My thought was it would be easier to balance the flow if you didn't have a
> big 3" round exit on one side of the engine. But I'm waiting for the
> aerodynamicists to weigh in here...
>
> Richard Bibb
> 972-771-2598
> 972-835-5979 mobile
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:48 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
>
>
> Like you, my background is in electronics, so my comments may not help!
> I don't think the problem is in robbing the available air from the
> cylinders, it's finding a balance in the area of entrance air Vs exit
> air, and finding a less-obstructed path for the air. Lopresti was an
> expert at it, and his son is carrying on the effort. Look at the size
> of the holes in some 'certificated' cowls Vs the Swift Fury or the
> Lancair. I'll go the plenum route ..... cowl seals leak ..... and I'll
> use a manometer to try and balance the pressures. Providing for good
> exit flows seem to help a lot.
> Linn
>
>
> Richard Bibb wrote:
>
>> Well I wasn't thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just
>> deriving the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock location
>> but perhaps modified mount to reflect change in air source geometry)
>> from a combined induction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is to eliminate
>> the source of air for the oil cooer from the rear of the baffles
>> (whether inside a plenum or not) as to increase cooling air for the
>> cylinders. That creates the problem of creating an air source for the
>> cooler. Rather than create a separate inlet I was thinking of creating
>> a larger "mouth" on the below-cowl scoop for the induction and creating
>> some sort of flow divider to send some air to the inlet and some to the
>> cooler.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not being educated in fluid dynamics I'm looking for general guidelines
>> as to an efficient method of engineering such an inlet/splitter combo.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the warning...
>>
>>
>>
>> Richard Bibb
>>
>> 972-771-2598
>>
>> 972-835-5979 mobile
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: James plenum question |
Here's a link to some pictures that might help.
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%20FF6%20Exhaust%20System/index.html
However, it should be noted that I have since removed the heat muff on
the left side, in a semi-successful attempt to clean-up the airflow in
this area and to improve cooling.
(Cabin heat is NOT an issue for me currently)
Deems Davis
N519PJ
Lenny Iszak wrote:
>
> Those of you who installed the James plenum (Deems, Robin?), how did you get
air to the left side heat muff?
>
> Thanks,
> Lenny
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265254#265254
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cumins" <jcumins(at)jcis.net> |
| Subject: | new item for the rv-10 back seats |
Ben Congrats
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution ProviderFrom:
owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 10:56 AM
Subject: RV10-List: new item for the rv-10 back seats
Hey guys I thought I'd show you our newest "add-on" for the RV-10 J. It
goes in the back seat and adds to the beauty of the plane. Good thing we're
building the 4 seater!
Ben Westfall
Portland, OR
#40579 (Finish Kit)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors
and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before
takeoff.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
<http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/emoticons/smile_sad.gif>
_____
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. See how.
<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutor
ial_QuickAdd_062009>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lbgjb10" <lbgjb(at)gnt.net> |
Probably the achilles heal of the 10. We use a secondary strap every time. Simple
and reliable--I think. larry
--------
Larry and Gayle N104LG
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265394#265394
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
I've often wondered if a more direct route to the airflow would help the oil
cooler. Would this location give enough room for "exhausting" the hot air?
I wonder what it would do pressure wise for air behind the baffling?
I sure wish somebody would figure this out :-).
Ben Westfall
Portland, OR
#40579
-----Original Message-----
This is a familiar topic. ;-) I have the James cowl/Plenum,
Live in AZ and have to deal with heat issues (Today's high will reach
107!). I have been through several machinations in an attempt to deal
with heat. Ton's of louvers on bottom of cowl, increasing the lower cowl
exit area 5-10%. Plenum rework, baffle sealing. I still have the oil
cooler mounted in the stock (Van's) location. My current temps are
'manageable'. Everything is linked directly to OAT, the cooler the
better. With OAT of approx 90-95, On Take Off, I will see Oil temps
climb to 210-215 if I keep airspeed up to 120-130 kts. Hottest cyls CHT
seem to peak @ 400-405. At altitude oil temps come back to 195 and CHT
to 360-380. On our trip back east (ie. cooler temps) we saw oil temps
175-185. I consider my temperatures on the high side, but am worried
about overreacting until I get some more experience in some lower
temperatures.
One approach I have considered is relocating the oil cooler to behind
the baffle (#6 likely). Initially I didn't think there was enough room,
however I saw an installation on an F1 Rocket
http://www.pflanzer-aviation.com/Engine9.html which got me thinking, I
borrowed an unmounted oil cooler and did a loose test fit and I think it
could be made to work.
Deems Davis
www.deemsrv10.com
N519PJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors
and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before
takeoff.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
<http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/emoticons/smile_sad.gif>
_____
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. See how.
<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutor
ial_QuickAdd_062009>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
It's really essential that everyone have some improved way of keeping the
doors closed: our metal door blocks are one way, buy you could also make
your own, get Rivetheads, use a strap or something. This is happening a LO
T
and it's only a matter of time until the results are very bad.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:02 PM, David McNeill wrote:
>
>
> I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
> changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the door
s
> and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before
> takeoff.
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Danny Riggs
> *Sent:* Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: door
>
> That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weeke
nd
> and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
> firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
>
> ------------------------------
> From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: door
> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
>
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
> Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing:
N
> Damage: Minor
>
> LOCATION
> City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
> WITHOUT
> INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> # Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
>
> WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
>
> *
>
> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/con
tribution
> *
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE. See how.<http://w
indowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Qu
ickAdd_062009>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
*
>
> *
>
===========
ronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
===========
=========
> =
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
| From: | "Nick Leonard" <nick(at)nleonard.com> |
[quote="jdriggs49(at)msn.com"]"I installed a small device from Honeywell (sourced
from Allied Electronics) that will allow me to electronically"......could you
be a bit more specific about this device. Sounds like something I need to look
at. Very interesting discussion! Dan
Dan,
The device is the Honeywell DCXL30DS. Here is the spec sheet from Allied..
https://www.alliedelec.com/Images/Products/Datasheets/BM/HONEYWELL_SENSYM_ICT/643-0213.PDF
I plan on capturing the data with a simple USB data logger such as the EL-USB-3
which will provide a time stamp that I hope to link with the glass panel (AFS
4500) flight log info.
http://www.dataq.com/support/documentation/pdf/datasheets/el-data-logger.pdf
When I need to measure the effectiveness of anything (air inlet openings, outlets,
oil cooler, etc) I will connect the tubes to the unit and the logger at the
other end. Any changes I make should be easily measured with this set up.
I could carry a small PC and see the results in real time.
Nick
> Subject: Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
> From: nick(at)nleonard.com
> Date: Mon C 28 Sep 2009 09:23:36 -0700
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> This is an interesting discussion. I have a friend (Bob Cole) with an RV-6 that
has done some extensive modifications to his cowling and I plan to follow
in his footsteps. Let me tell you a little about Bob. He couldn't get the performance
that he expected from the Katto prop he had made so he learned about prop
design and manufacturing and made his own. He is on his fourth 'tweak' (prop)
and has it just about what he considers perfect. He decided to build his own
exhaust system so he learned about designing balanced flow exhaust systems
and made his own. He has since made several further modifications to further improve
the performance and keeps working on the next knot of speed C degree of
cooling C etc. In each case he gets a base line measurement of performance before
he makes his changes (they don't all make it better).
>
> So about improving cooling. Bob's approach has been to use an airspeed indicator
to measure the change in the differential air pressure before and after any
airflow modifications. He simply runs the indicator tubes to the front and
back of the testing area C gets a baseline and checks again after the change.
Like many others C he found that reducing the air inlet area on the cowling improved
the air flow through the cowling. Something about air being damned up in
that area when the opening is too large C which is typical of the Van's design.
He also worked on getting the air out more effectively with a ramp on the
back of the cowl. One of the things that made a big difference for him was to
pay special attention on making sure that the seal to the engine baffling was
100% effective (no leaks). It is the simple things that can make the biggest difference.
>
> I saw how much information you can get from the measurement of the differential
pressure (air speed indicator) throughout the engine area that I installed
a small device from Honeywell (sourced from Allied Electronics) that will allow
me to electronically do what Bob has done without having to run the tubes through
the firewall (2-wires). I expect to make various modification to the -10
for cooling efficiency C etc. (not flying yet).
>
> The bottom line to this conversation is that getting more air into the cowling
is often more of a problem than a solution. Also C get a good baseline measurement
before you make any changes. And also to thank the Bob's of the world
for their curiosity C intelligence C gumption and incredible talent.
>
> --------
> Nick Leonard
> RV-10 (40015) Finish
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265331#265331
>
> = Archive Search & Download C 7-Day Browse C Chat C FAQ C
> &g==
>
>
>
>
> Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing now
> > [b]
>
--------
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Finish
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265402#265402
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au> |
| Subject: | Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
G'day fellow builders,=0A=0AI am seeking some wise words of advice (or caut
ion) from the pioneers that have gone before me please, just to make sure t
hat I've covered all my bases-before closing the bottom skins.=0A=0ACould
someone please tell me if there-are any prudent things that I should-c
onsider prior to riveting on the bottom wing skins?=0A=0ATo date, I have ro
uted all the wiring through conduits which pass through the ribs; installed
the pitot mast and plumbed the pitot line; installed the pitot heater modu
le; installed the roll servo and I've assembled the aileron trim mechanism.
=0A=0AIs there anything that I may have forgotten to do please, you advice
would be very much appreciated?=0A=0AKind regards from down under.=0A=0APat
rick Pulis=0A#40299--------- VH-XPP=0AAdelaide, South Aus
tralia-=0A=0A=0A ___________________________________________________
_______________________________=0AGet more done like never before with Yaho
o!7 Mail.=0ALearn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting
to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
* When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb
out, cruise etc)?
* Was the Van door warning installed
* What kind of door blocks were being used (Van's nylon, Rivethead,
IflyRV10 etc)?
* Were any other "secondary" latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely
not the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door should not
result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - living in f/g hell.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors
and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before
takeoff.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
<http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/emoticons/smile_sad.gif>
_____
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. See how.
<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutor
ial_QuickAdd_062009>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cumins" <jcumins(at)jcis.net> |
Ok here comes my 2 cents. It appears that there could be some type of
design change, better locking longer door pins, longer throw on the pins or
a air dam of some kind that forces the door shut and not let it open with a
air load in or. Has any Lanceairs lost any doors in flight. Looking at
the Cirius doors it is almost impossible to loose on of theirs from the
looks of it.
I think when I get to that point I will have to take a harder look at this
and see if I can build in more safety into this. I do agree that the door
should not come off and cause a major damage or loss of aircraft due to a
door opening.
It is time to put some major brain cells into this issue. I think it will
take more than metal door blocks to really get this resolved.
I am open to any and all ideas.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting
to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
* When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb
out, cruise etc)?
* Was the Van door warning installed
* What kind of door blocks were being used (Van's nylon, Rivethead,
IflyRV10 etc)?
* Were any other "secondary" latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely
not the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door should not
result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - living in f/g hell.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors
and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before
takeoff.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
<http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/emoticons/smile_sad.gif>
_____
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. See how.
<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutor
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
| From: | "Lenny Iszak" <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com> |
I'm using an MPX5050DP in my speed sensitive trim controller and it appears to
be working fine, although not flight tested yet. It's cheaper at $10.34. I read
it with an arduino.
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Freescale-Semiconductor/MPX5050DP/?qs=r8OyiFxb6RdEZ0vCbPdH8w%3d%3d
Since the arduino has plenty of analog ports, i was thinking to hook up a few of
these sensors and get DP readings from multiple locations at the same time.
Lenny
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265410#265410
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Emailing: 2__2_[1] |
I believe this one had the door open in flight?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
I disagree that it will take more than metal blocks to solve this. I
switched to the metal blocks and have very solid latch on mine. Connect
the
proximity switch circuit to your EFIS alarm system, and it will scream
at
you when you advance the throttle and don=92t have all 4 pins locked.
The
solution is not difficult or expensive.
Gary Specketer
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:44 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Ok here comes my 2 cents. It appears that there could be some type of
design change, better locking longer door pins, longer throw on the pins
or
a air dam of some kind that forces the door shut and not let it open
with a
air load in or. Has any Lanceairs lost any doors in flight. Looking
at
the Cirius doors it is almost impossible to loose on of theirs from the
looks of it.
I think when I get to that point I will have to take a harder look at
this
and see if I can build in more safety into this. I do agree that the
door
should not come off and cause a major damage or loss of aircraft due to
a
door opening.
It is time to put some major brain cells into this issue. I think it
will
take more than metal door blocks to really get this resolved.
I am open to any and all ideas.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be
interesting
to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
* When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb
out, cruise etc)?
* Was the Van door warning installed
* What kind of door blocks were being used (Van=92s nylon, Rivethead,
IflyRV10 etc)?
* Were any other =93secondary=94 latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are
definitely
not the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door should
not
result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 ' living in f/g hell.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the
doors
and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and
before
takeoff.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the
weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
<http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/emoticons/smile_sad.gif>
_____
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing:
N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE. See how.
<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_
Tutor
ial_QuickAdd_062009>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: James plenum question |
| From: | "Lenny Iszak" <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com> |
Thanks Deems! That's what I was looking for. Where did you get that Y splitter
from?
Lenny
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265415#265415
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <toaster73(at)embarqmail.com> |
More 2 cents.Remember to make sure the door pins go all the way through the
upright F-1005 and F-1042. I have mine such that there is solid pin (with no
taper) engaged in the hole in these uprights. That is a lot of strength in
shear with this, so as long as the door and latch is closed properly it is
not going anywhere. Now if the door can flex in the middle thereby pulling
those out such as if the cabin were pressurized that could be a problem.
-Chris
#40072
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:54 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
I disagree that it will take more than metal blocks to solve this. I
switched to the metal blocks and have very solid latch on mine. Connect the
proximity switch circuit to your EFIS alarm system, and it will scream at
you when you advance the throttle and don't have all 4 pins locked. The
solution is not difficult or expensive.
Gary Specketer
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:44 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Ok here comes my 2 cents. It appears that there could be some type of
design change, better locking longer door pins, longer throw on the pins or
a air dam of some kind that forces the door shut and not let it open with a
air load in or. Has any Lanceairs lost any doors in flight. Looking at
the Cirius doors it is almost impossible to loose on of theirs from the
looks of it.
I think when I get to that point I will have to take a harder look at this
and see if I can build in more safety into this. I do agree that the door
should not come off and cause a major damage or loss of aircraft due to a
door opening.
It is time to put some major brain cells into this issue. I think it will
take more than metal door blocks to really get this resolved.
I am open to any and all ideas.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting
to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
* When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb
out, cruise etc)?
* Was the Van door warning installed
* What kind of door blocks were being used (Van's nylon, Rivethead,
IflyRV10 etc)?
* Were any other "secondary" latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely
not the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door should not
result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - living in f/g hell.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors
and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before
takeoff.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
<http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/emoticons/smile_sad.gif>
_____
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. See how.
<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutor
ial_QuickAdd_062009>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net> |
[quote="speckter(at)comcast.net"]I disagree that it will take more than metal blocks
to solve this. I switched to the metal blocks and have very solid latch
on mine. Connect the proximity switch circuit to your EFIS alarm system, and
it will scream at you when you advance the throttle and dont have all 4 pins
locked. The solution is not difficult or expensive.
Gary Specketer
I agree,
I have the Door Guides and Pins and have been flying my RV10 for a year now without
a problem. I have redundant warning switches in my setup. One reed switch
is for the DOOR LIGHT warning on the instrument panel. The other is for
the Garmin 900X which gives a DOOR OPEN warning above 1800RPM. Plus, in my checklist,
when it comes to "DOORS CLOSED and LOCKED" the Pilot is required to
physically check both doors closed and locked. Triple checks!
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265423#265423
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: James plenum question |
I believe I got it from Aircraft Spruce.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ep/engineaccessories_connectors.html
Deems
Lenny Iszak wrote:
>
> Thanks Deems! That's what I was looking for. Where did you get that Y splitter
from?
>
> Lenny
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265415#265415
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roxanne and Mike Lefever <roxianmike(at)msn.com> |
I asked my local design engineer to review the door design and consider an
"ultimate" solution to these concerns. His reply would probably work but I
may not adopt it. His solution: (a) tie a piece of safety wire on the do
or handle=3B (b) run it under the passenger seat=3B (c) wrap around both te
sticles.
You won't ever forget to check the pins are engaged. On the rare chance you
do forget and the door departs the aircraft=2C you won't be focused on tha
t particular problem.
If this violates the decorum of the Matronics rules of the road. I hereby a
pply for a pardon.
From: toaster73(at)embarqmail.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Date: Mon=2C 28 Sep 2009 19:23:04 -0400
More 2 cents=85Remember to make sure the door pins go all the way through t
he upright F-1005 and F-1042. I have mine such that there is solid pin (wit
h no taper) engaged in the hole in these uprights. That is a lot of strengt
h in shear with this=2C so as long as the door and latch is closed properly
it is not going anywhere. Now if the door can flex in the middle thereby p
ulling those out such as if the cabin were pressurized that could be a prob
lem.
-Chris
#40072
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Monday=2C September 28=2C 2009 6:54 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
I disagree that it will take more than metal blocks to solve this. I switc
hed to the metal blocks and have very solid latch on mine. Connect the pro
ximity switch circuit to your EFIS alarm system=2C and it will scream at yo
u when you advance the throttle and don=92t have all 4 pins locked. The so
lution is not difficult or expensive.
Gary Specketer
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Monday=2C September 28=2C 2009 6:44 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Ok here comes my 2 cents. It appears that there could be some type of desi
gn change=2C better locking longer door pins=2C longer throw on the pins or
a air dam of some kind that forces the door shut and not let it open with
a air load in or. Has any Lanceairs lost any doors in flight. Looking at
the Cirius doors it is almost impossible to loose on of theirs from the lo
oks of it.
I think when I get to that point I will have to take a harder look at this
and see if I can build in more safety into this. I do agree that the door
should not come off and cause a major damage or loss of aircraft due to a d
oor opening.
It is time to put some major brain cells into this issue. I think it will t
ake more than metal door blocks to really get this resolved.
I am open to any and all ideas.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday=2C September 28=2C 2009 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting
to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff=2C during climb out=2C c
ruise etc)?
Was the Van door warning installed
What kind of door blocks were being used (Van=92s nylon=2C Rivethead=2C Ifl
yRV10 etc)?
Were any other =93secondary=94 latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely n
ot the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway=2C in my not so humble opinion=2C an improperly unlatched door shoul
d not result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 ' living in f/g hell.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC=3B I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors
and check the pins both fore and aft=2C both sides=2C when we load and befo
re takeoff.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday=2C September 28=2C 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real f
irm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
Date: Mon=2C 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF=2C PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT=2C LANDED W
ITHOUT
INCIDENT=2C JEFFERSON CITY=2C MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk
:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk
:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk
:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995 ttp://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?RV10-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE. See how. href="
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics
.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com
/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator
?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.c
om http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigat
or?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: James plenum question |
| From: | "Lenny Iszak" <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com> |
Duh... should have checked first. Thanks!
Lenny
Deems Davis wrote:
> I believe I got it from Aircraft Spruce.
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ep/engineaccessories_connectors.html
>
> Deems
>
> Lenny Iszak wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks Deems! That's what I was looking for. Where did you get that Y splitter
from?
> >
> > Lenny
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 65415#265415
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265433#265433
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com> |
Guys,
On my doors, when the stock Van's handle locks down, both locking pins
go THROUGH the phenolic guides and are firmly through metal frame.
The phenolic blocks are not designed to hold the door close, merely to
guide the locking pin through the metal!
I have warning lights on the aft pins - if the pin does not go through
the metal hole, the light does not get turned off.
And part of the before takeoff checklist is to ensure that the handle
is locked into position and that you cannot push out on the door.
You must make this check a slow, methodical check every takeoff and
not trust your seat-mate to do it correctly.
grumpy
N184JM
On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:21 PM, Les Kearney wrote:
> Hi
>
> These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be
> interesting to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
>
> When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb
> out, cruise etc)?
> Was the Van door warning installed
> What kind of door blocks were being used (Van=92s nylon, Rivethead,
> IflyRV10 etc)?
> Were any other =93secondary=94 latches / straps etc being used?
>
> The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are
> definitely not the way to go when installing doors.
>
> Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door
> should not result in a near death experience in a light single.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> #40643 ' living in f/g hell.
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-serve
r(at)matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of David McNeill
> Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
>
>
> I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now
> been changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I
> close the doors and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides,
> when we load and before takeoff.
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-serve
r(at)matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
>
> That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the
> weekend and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The
> landing was real firm and the front end was twisted up to the
> firewall.
>
> From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: door
> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
>
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
> Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N
> Missing: N
> Damage: Minor
>
> LOCATION
> City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT,
> LANDED WITHOUT
> INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min:
> 0 Unk:
> # Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min:
> 0 Unk:
> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min:
> 0 Unk:
>
> WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
>
>
> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ronics.com
> ww.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE. See how.
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Re: James plenum question |
Vans sells the y also.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: James plenum question
I believe I got it from Aircraft Spruce.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ep/engineaccessories_connectors.html
Deems
Lenny Iszak wrote:
>
> Thanks Deems! That's what I was looking for. Where did you get that Y
splitter from?
>
> Lenny
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265415#265415
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ricksked(at)embarqmail.com |
Mine do the same, when the reed switches were rigged sp
ecial care was taken to make the light indicators very
sensitive. If you rotate my door handles towards the open
position the lights come on with about 10 degrees of
motion...well in advance of the over center position...Ano
ther reminder is when flying alone double check the passe
nger door...assuming it is locked and secure could be a
big risk...Question... I have door key locks....what do
most of you do when flying solo? Lock the doors or ju
st close the handle.
Rick Sked
N246RS
Looking forward to LOE
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:07:04
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
I ran a nylon fish tape out through the conduits (2) on each wing for later wiring
or maintenance. Fast- cheap- light. Who knows what kind of gadgets will be
available in 3-5 years
--------
OSH '10 or Bust
Q/B Kit - phase 1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265439#265439
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
Mike
Your engineer friend has, as engineers often do, failed to understand the
real problem and thereby design the correct solution. Implementation of this
solution would, at some point, result in recognition that he has designed a
"detective control" rather than a "preventative control". Even at that, it
is still inadequate as it would only be effective for pilots of the male
persuasion.
..Les
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roxanne and Mike
Lefever
Sent: September-28-09 5:46 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
I asked my local design engineer to review the door design and consider an
"ultimate" solution to these concerns. His reply would probably work but I
may not adopt it. His solution: (a) tie a piece of safety wire on the door
handle; (b) run it under the passenger seat; (c) wrap around both testicles.
You won't ever forget to check the pins are engaged. On the rare chance you
do forget and the door departs the aircraft, you won't be focused on that
particular problem.
If this violates the decorum of the Matronics rules of the road. I hereby
apply for a pardon.
_____
From: toaster73(at)embarqmail.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:23:04 -0400
More 2 cents.Remember to make sure the door pins go all the way through the
upright F-1005 and F-1042. I have mine such that there is solid pin (with no
taper) engaged in the hole in these uprights. That is a lot of strength in
shear with this, so as long as the door and latch is closed properly it is
not going anywhere. Now if the door can flex in the middle thereby pulling
those out such as if the cabin were pressurized that could be a problem.
-Chris
#40072
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:54 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
I disagree that it will take more than metal blocks to solve this. I
switched to the metal blocks and have very solid latch on mine. Connect the
proximity switch circuit to your EFIS alarm system, and it will scream at
you when you advance the throttle and don't have all 4 pins locked. The
solution is not difficult or expensive.
Gary Specketer
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:44 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Ok here comes my 2 cents. It appears that there could be some type of
design change, better locking longer door pins, longer throw on the pins or
a air dam of some kind that forces the door shut and not let it open with a
air load in or. Has any Lanceairs lost any doors in flight. Looking at
the Cirius doors it is almost impossible to loose on of theirs from the
looks of it.
I think when I get to that point I will have to take a harder look at this
and see if I can build in more safety into this. I do agree that the door
should not come off and cause a major damage or loss of aircraft due to a
door opening.
It is time to put some major brain cells into this issue. I think it will
take more than metal door blocks to really get this resolved.
I am open to any and all ideas.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting
to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
* When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb
out, cruise etc)?
* Was the Van door warning installed
* What kind of door blocks were being used (Van's nylon, Rivethead,
IflyRV10 etc)?
* Were any other "secondary" latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely
not the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door should not
result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - living in f/g hell.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors
and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before
takeoff.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
<http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/emoticons/smile_sad.gif>
_____
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. See
<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutor
ial_QuickAdd_062009> how.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Screw length for cowl closeout pins |
| From: | "Phil White" <philwhite9(at)aol.com> |
On page 47-7, there is a callout reference in step 12 to Figure 7, for the small
plate that holds the top cowl pins in place. On my plans figure 7 has NO listing
for the screw size. :(
I know it's a flat head counter sunk #6, but HOW LONG should it be?
Anyone have a more recent plans set that shows the screw size?
Phil #40220 fitting 53" long cowl over 20B rotary
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265450#265450
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ricksked(at)embarqmail.com |
Me too. Thanks John er Grumpy or General ,
Just wanted to know your thoughts.....I appreciate more feedback and arguments...
I do feel better with the latch "locked". Odds are the door opening vs. Crash
and needing rescue....interesting huh?
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:49:18
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
I think I have my high oil temps problem under control finally. I previously
had added another oil cooler on the right side but still was seeing temps
climbing too high. I added 2 non-retractable cowl flaps on the bottom. The
rectangular opening in the cowl is 4 x 9 inches. The opening at the rear is
2 x 4 inches. They are non-retractable because the mufflers would interfere.
This seems to be a final fix. I wish I had added the cowl flaps before I
tried the 2nd oil cooler.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
N991RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
Hey Jesse,
The door rods/seats issue has been addressed many times, but your comment about
the handle latch made me decide to list the following:
Our -10 is not flying yet, but in the many off/on 's during fitting the doors,
I noticed that a couple of times that the safety wire holding the pins that hold
the rods to the latch mechanism (whew, what a sentence!) get buggered and come
off if not twisted and positioned just right. I've thought, "Wow, the whole
door integrity is dependent on this delicate little wire -- how scary is that!"
Thoughts? By the way, is it not possible to edit out all the quotes when responding
by iphone?
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting done!
On with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265509#265509
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: High Oil temps |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Sure how this does the job Albert. Of course the AZ hot temps are on
their way out, so limited testing wx remaining.
If it proves to be the fix, it sure would point to the original
lacking sufficient exit area.
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:22 AM, Albert Gardner wrote:
>
> I think I have my high oil temps problem under control finally. I previously
> had added another oil cooler on the right side but still was seeing temps
> climbing too high. I added 2 non-retractable cowl flaps on the bottom. The
> rectangular opening in the cowl is 4 x 9 inches. The opening at the rear is
> 2 x 4 inches. They are non-retractable because the mufflers would interfere.
> This seems to be a final fix. I wish I had added the cowl flaps before I
> tried the 2nd oil cooler.
> Albert Gardner
> Yuma, AZ
> N991RV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: new item for the rv-10 back seats |
Congrats.... someone has to do it... I simply knew I wouldn't have been abl
e to have a boat or the 10, if I had one or more of those mods.=C2- (--:
Don McDonald
--- On Sun, 9/27/09, Jesse Saint wrote:
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: new item for the rv-10 back seats
Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 1:54 PM
That's the most expensive "mod" yet for the -10. =C2-CONGRATULATIONS!
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Sep 27, 2009, at 1:55 PM, Ben Westfall wrote:
Hey guys I thought I=99d show you our newest =9Cadd-on=9D
for the RV-10 J. =C2-It goes in the back seat and adds to the beauty of
the plane.=C2- Good thing we=99re building the 4 seater!
=C2-
Ben Westfall
Portland, OR
#40579 (Finish Kit)
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
To answer your question, I installed everything, including the push rods before
closing.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine & Panel
delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265529#265529
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
It is possible to tap the hole on the pushrod for a stainless #4 or 6? Screw
and then threadlock in place. Another option is a clevis pin with cotter key
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 4:38 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: door
Hey Jesse,
The door rods/seats issue has been addressed many times, but your comment
about the handle latch made me decide to list the following:
Our -10 is not flying yet, but in the many off/on 's during fitting the
doors, I noticed that a couple of times that the safety wire holding the
pins that hold the rods to the latch mechanism (whew, what a sentence!) get
buggered and come off if not twisted and positioned just right. I've
thought, "Wow, the whole door integrity is dependent on this delicate little
wire -- how scary is that!"
Thoughts? By the way, is it not possible to edit out all the quotes when
responding by iphone?
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting done!
On with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265509#265509
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
If the flap is a solution , it needs to be retractable for high altitude/
winter and speed. Those cowl flaps are going to cause lots of drag.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 5:10 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: High Oil temps
Sure how this does the job Albert. Of course the AZ hot temps are on their
way out, so limited testing wx remaining.
If it proves to be the fix, it sure would point to the original lacking
sufficient exit area.
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:22 AM, Albert Gardner
wrote:
>
> I think I have my high oil temps problem under control finally. I
> previously had added another oil cooler on the right side but still
> was seeing temps climbing too high. I added 2 non-retractable cowl
> flaps on the bottom. The rectangular opening in the cowl is 4 x 9
> inches. The opening at the rear is
> 2 x 4 inches. They are non-retractable because the mufflers would
interfere.
> This seems to be a final fix. I wish I had added the cowl flaps before
> I tried the 2nd oil cooler.
> Albert Gardner
> Yuma, AZ
> N991RV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com> |
I used clevis pins and cotter keys. I am pretty sure that this is the
method called out in the plans. I will take a look next time I am at
the airport.
David Maib
40559
Flying
On Sep 29, 2009, at 9:14 AM, David McNeill wrote:
It is possible to tap the hole on the pushrod for a stainless #4 or
6? Screw
and then threadlock in place. Another option is a clevis pin with
cotter key
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 4:38 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: door
Hey Jesse,
The door rods/seats issue has been addressed many times, but your
comment
about the handle latch made me decide to list the following:
Our -10 is not flying yet, but in the many off/on 's during fitting the
doors, I noticed that a couple of times that the safety wire holding the
pins that hold the rods to the latch mechanism (whew, what a
sentence!) get
buggered and come off if not twisted and positioned just right. I've
thought, "Wow, the whole door integrity is dependent on this delicate
little
wire -- how scary is that!"
Thoughts? By the way, is it not possible to edit out all the quotes
when
responding by iphone?
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting done!
On with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265509#265509
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: High Oil temps |
| From: | "cjay" <cgfinney(at)yahoo.com> |
awhile back wasn't there an ecstatic contributer who claimed that by adding louvers
at the lower back side of the cowl not only solved his heat and hot tunnel
problem, but also showed markedly improved performance? I seem to remember
his name was Glen but I couldn't find the thread.
cjay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265549#265549
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vernon Smith <planesmith(at)hotmail.com> |
David=2C
Where did you get the new material for your extended door pins? I used the
Rivethead guides but didn't extend the pins through the fuselage structure
and the more I think about it I would like to redo this.
Thanks=2C
Vern Smith (#40324)
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Date: Mon=2C 28 Sep 2009 20:14:47 -0700
concur. The entire circumference of the pin must extend through the metal d
oor frame or other metal. In my case we made new pins from the same materia
l as supplied by Vans. One can make the pins extra long =2C install them wi
th the doors on the aircraft. Then using a cutoff wheel and sanding disk
=2C one can trim back the pins until the retracted pins just clear the fram
e=3B the extended pins will be inserted more than sufficiently into the met
al door frames. The standard length pins do not work unless you locate the
door mechanism exactly where Vans intended. Given the epoxy process to glue
the door halves together and the trimming process =2C the mechanism can va
ry enough to make the Vans supplied pins insufficient in length.
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Bing=99 brings you maps=2C menus=2C and reviews organized in one place.
Try it now.=0A
http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&cre
a=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
It is standard aluminum 6061T6 tubing; I believe the OD was 7/16" and the ID
3/8"; 1/16" walls. Measure it to be sure. comes in 6 ft lengths from
aircraft spruce or ?. slots can be cut using a dril press and band saw.
Another thing I bought from McMaster Carr is additional Stainless/ Steel
pins for the cowl pins. I sharpened the point on one end and placed a couple
underneath the baggage area carpeting fore to aft and they extend to the
right side of the rear seat. This provides , if a builder uses the cowl
pins, backup pins while away from home in case the aircraft is serviced and
a cowl pin is bent.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Smith
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
David,
Where did you get the new material for your extended door pins? I used the
Rivethead guides but didn't extend the pins through the fuselage structure
and the more I think about it I would like to redo this.
Thanks,
Vern Smith (#40324)
_____
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:14:47 -0700
concur. The entire circumference of the pin must extend through the metal
door frame or other metal. In my case we made new pins from the same
material as supplied by Vans. One can make the pins extra long , install
them with the doors on the aircraft. Then using a cutoff wheel and sanding
disk, one can trim back the pins until the retracted pins just clear the
frame; the extended pins will be inserted more than sufficiently into the
metal door frames. The standard length pins do not work unless you locate
the door mechanism exactly where Vans intended. Given the epoxy process to
glue the door halves together and the trimming process , the mechanism can
vary enough to make the Vans supplied pins insufficient in length.
_____
_____
BingT brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it
now.
<http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT
_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
For those of you who have recently received (or will soon be receiving)
your QB fuselage's, here is some feedback I sent to Vans today.
You might want to pack it away some place special and double check these
area when yours arrives. Some of it is nit-picky, but I wanted to be as
thorough as I could possibly be.
Phil
Hello,
My QB Fuselage (40750) arrived a couple of weeks ago and I thought I'd
share some feedback and some inventory discrepancies.
I've spent the past couple of weeks walking through the steps and I have
currently made it through section 29. Generally speaking, the quality
of the work is actually quite nice and the kit was well work the wait.
Rivet work looks good and it's generally deburred quite well.
I have found a few issues with their attention to detail.
These are the most concerning areas of workmanship:
28-4 Step #1) "Radius the corners and remove material from the middle of
both control column mounts." (Remove hatched area).
This step was completely ignored. The control column
mounts were deburred and simply bolted into position.
29-6 Step #7) "Draw a line on the flange of the F-10102A and B Baggage
Door Seal Angles 3/8" from the lower face of the F-1046-L Mid Fuse
Longeron as show in Figure 4. Remove the baggage door seal angles and
trim off the portion of the flange below this line. Note that once
trimmed, the flange on the F-10102B will be shorter than the flange on
F-10102A"
This step was completely ignored. They just riveted the
piece into the airplane and left it. Now I'm trying to figure out the
best way to trim the part per the plans. I wish they had paid attention
and trimmed the part before riveting, or not riveted it at all.
29-9 Step #5) "Check the distance between the aft most rivet hole and
the aft end of the F-1013-L and -R Fwd Fuse Longerons per the dimensions
in Figure 3. Pull away the F-1070L and -R Mid Side Skins and trim the
longerons if necessary (or wait until fwd fuselage longerons are
disassembled, but don't forget)."
This step was ignored and the longerons were just
riveted to the skin. They're not slightly long, but way too long. So
long that the left one sticks into the baggage door opening. Now I'm
drilling rivets in the skin/longeron and trying to slide a piece of
stainless between the two so I can cut them to the proper length before
riveting them again. If they wanted to leave them long, they should
have never riveted them.
Torque Wrench Use:)
Upon checking the torque value of the AN-3 bolts, it's quite obvious
that they don't have one on the floor. All of the bolts are over torque
by 2X. I'm now backing off all of the nuts to neutral and re-torquing
them to 25 inches.
================
Other items of omission.....
25-5 Step #7) The Snap Bushings were not installed - And not included in
the kit.
25-6 Step #4) The Snap Bushings were not installed - And not included in
the kit.
25-6 Step #5,6,7) The UMHW plastic was not installed - And not included
in the kit.
27-6 Step #4) The Snap Bushings were not installed and not included in
the kit.
29-19 Step #8) The 5610-90-31 washers were not included in the kit.
28-6 Step #2) None of the F-1084B's were shipped with the kit. The A's
are riveted to the floor but they didn't include the other half (B)'s.
30-4 Step #2) The AN3-20A's for the steps was not included in the kit.
They shipped a 24 with a stack of AN960-10 washers.
Many other sections) They completely ignored dimpling/countersinking and
chose to install pan head interior screws as opposed the flush. I
cannot speak to the problems this might cause right now - but I'm sure
I'll have a better understand of it as I go forward.
================
Inventory omissions (summarized above):
SB750-10 QTY 8
SB625-8 QTY 2
UHMW-125X1/2X5 QTY 1
Washer 5610-18-31 QTY 2
F-1084B QTY 4
AN3-20A QTY 2
MS21042-3 QTY 2
================
I'm sure I'll find a few more omissions and areas of concern as I
continue through the kit, but these are the ones I have on my list right
now. Generally speaking, the kit is great though. I just wanted to
provide my findings/feedback upon a closer inspection - since the new
factory is now running.
If you have any questions, let me know.
Thanks,
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> |
I'll add my 2c to add to this discussion.
After installing my rivethead aero door guides, I realized that my door
pins did not retract enough into the door when latch is open. They stuck
out just enough, less than a 1/4", where they would not clear the guides
to let me close the door. However, I could twist the door slightly and
they would clear the guide. In the locked position, the aluminum door
pin just barely, 1/8" maybe, extends beyond the metal door frame for a
positive engagement. The Al door pins were cut right where the taper began.
Thus, I could shorten the Al door pin but that means I lose the 1/8"
engagement past the door frame.
Then I thought, what I really want is just a longer ratchet travel. IE,
from locked to fully open, I just want that travel to be a bit longer.
That means ordering new CRACK's - the sliding metal with teeth. For
whatever reason, just 1 of them costs $75 from Vans. I need 2 for L and
R doors, so that means $150 for a few inches of metal.
Thus, if I had to do over again, I would cut those CRACK's longer than
plans. You could always drill a hole anywhere along its length to put an
arbitrary stop at any point to make them shorter. What you cannot do is
make them longer again, unless you pay $150 for it.
Jae
40533
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Bibb" <rbibb(at)tomet.net> |
It is obvious from reading Phil's feedback that Van's subcontractor does not
have even a rudimentary QC System in place. It is also obvious that Van's
doesn't have much of a QC process in place either from an incoming
inspection standpoint as some of the items could not be missed with even the
most cursory inspection of the items (thinking longeron length).
Excuses can be imagined centered around the ramp up of the new subcontractor
location and the emphasis to clear backlog of unhappy customers, neither of
which is good enough in my opinion.
In my business (fabricating aerospace parts) this would result in a
rejection and me having to remake the item to spec. I realize this is a
different world but this level of sloppiness is unacceptable IMO.
Glad I'm building a slow-build.
Don't get me wrong I love Van's but this doesn't live up to the standard I'm
used to seeing from them.
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
| From: | "Kevin O'Shea" <kevino(at)WorldWarehouse.com> |
Attaching a pic of my louvers. One on each side. Have 15 hrs on ac with
new IO 540. After first 5 hrs CHT's have settled down to 350-380. Oil
temps have never exceeded 190. Stock Van's cowl, cooler etc. In Vt so
oat not like the southwest. Max temp flown 85. I believe the louver is a
key variable. Built a Glastar with O360 with cooler on firewall. had a
horrible time with oil temps and had to move cooler to front baffle. Did
not use a louver but felt that could make a big difference which I think
has been the case with the RV 10. The 10 is a great airplane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neil & Sarah Colliver <ncol(at)xtra.co.nz> |
Here is an air to air pic + enlargement.
Speed was only about 110 knts max as the photo ship was a C182.
On the ground the door is perfectly flush all around, with no visible
bulge at the leading edge, nor at the bottom.
In flight I have not noticed it moving out, but we have a thick lining
material there. But the bulge is definitely visible in these pics. Our
pins go right into the frame as per Vans instructions, but it serves
as a reminder to ensure that the front pins have plenty of engagement.
We also have the Vans door warning system and that hasn't illumintated
in flight.
Nor is there any feeling of a draught at all, so the seals obviously
do their job well.
Neil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
Jae
There is another solution, if I understand your problem, which is much
simpler & cheaper.
I had a problem in that after I mounted the nylon door blocks on the door
and then glassed them in, there was interference between the Rivet head
blocks & the door pins / nylon blocks on the door. I simply notched out the
fibreglass door frame so the Rivethead blocks now mount directly on the
aluminum frame (and not on the fibreglass)
Problem solved & I still have pins that extend into the door frame.
The advantage of this solution is that the gap between the Rivethead blocks
and the nylon door blocks is quite small so it a) helps ensure good door
alignment in the opening and b) minimizes the unsupported gap for the door
pin between the frame and the door blocks.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - still living in f/g hell
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang
Sent: September-29-09 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
I'll add my 2c to add to this discussion.
After installing my rivethead aero door guides, I realized that my door
pins did not retract enough into the door when latch is open. They stuck
out just enough, less than a 1/4", where they would not clear the guides
to let me close the door. However, I could twist the door slightly and
they would clear the guide. In the locked position, the aluminum door
pin just barely, 1/8" maybe, extends beyond the metal door frame for a
positive engagement. The Al door pins were cut right where the taper began.
Thus, I could shorten the Al door pin but that means I lose the 1/8"
engagement past the door frame.
Then I thought, what I really want is just a longer ratchet travel. IE,
from locked to fully open, I just want that travel to be a bit longer.
That means ordering new CRACK's - the sliding metal with teeth. For
whatever reason, just 1 of them costs $75 from Vans. I need 2 for L and
R doors, so that means $150 for a few inches of metal.
Thus, if I had to do over again, I would cut those CRACK's longer than
plans. You could always drill a hole anywhere along its length to put an
arbitrary stop at any point to make them shorter. What you cannot do is
make them longer again, unless you pay $150 for it.
Jae
40533
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
Attached are two photos of four offenses.
Baggage Seal photo shows:
The longeron extending into the baggage door opening.
The baggage door seal angles (top of baggage door) - not
trimmed.
1084 and Control Column mount photo shows:
The 1084B's missing. The bottom half is riveted to the
floor
The control column brackets without the hatched area
removed.
From: Richard Bibb [mailto:rbibb(at)tomet.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 12:14 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB Feedback
It is obvious from reading Phil's feedback that Van's subcontractor does
not have even a rudimentary QC System in place. It is also obvious that
Van's doesn't have much of a QC process in place either from an incoming
inspection standpoint as some of the items could not be missed with even
the most cursory inspection of the items (thinking longeron length).
Excuses can be imagined centered around the ramp up of the new
subcontractor location and the emphasis to clear backlog of unhappy
customers, neither of which is good enough in my opinion.
In my business (fabricating aerospace parts) this would result in a
rejection and me having to remake the item to spec. I realize this is a
different world but this level of sloppiness is unacceptable IMO.
Glad I'm building a slow-build.
Don't get me wrong I love Van's but this doesn't live up to the standard
I'm used to seeing from them.
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
Several ways to skin a cat here. Instead of cutting out the fiberglass I
sliced about a 1/4" off the back of the rivethead block on the bandsaw. I
then used the 1/4" thick piece in place of the front rivethead door block.
This allowed me to leave the front door pin much longer.
For the back door pin I sized that so it just clears the rivethead door
block. This gives me a fairly decent amount of the door pin through the
aluminum framing. I don't recall the exact depth it extends. I'll have to
look at it next time I install the doors (they aren't on the fuse at this
time).
I think I'll take a second look at it though at a later date and see if I
can get the rear pins to extend farther through the aluminum. I recall it
being 1/2" or so. That might be a bit slim if the door bows in flight very
much.
-Ben Westfall
-----Original Message-----
Jae
There is another solution, if I understand your problem, which is much
simpler & cheaper.
I had a problem in that after I mounted the nylon door blocks on the door
and then glassed them in, there was interference between the Rivet head
blocks & the door pins / nylon blocks on the door. I simply notched out the
fibreglass door frame so the Rivethead blocks now mount directly on the
aluminum frame (and not on the fibreglass)
Problem solved & I still have pins that extend into the door frame.
The advantage of this solution is that the gap between the Rivethead blocks
and the nylon door blocks is quite small so it a) helps ensure good door
alignment in the opening and b) minimizes the unsupported gap for the door
pin between the frame and the door blocks.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - still living in f/g hell
-----Original Message-----
I'll add my 2c to add to this discussion.
After installing my rivethead aero door guides, I realized that my door
pins did not retract enough into the door when latch is open. They stuck
out just enough, less than a 1/4", where they would not clear the guides
to let me close the door. However, I could twist the door slightly and
they would clear the guide. In the locked position, the aluminum door
pin just barely, 1/8" maybe, extends beyond the metal door frame for a
positive engagement. The Al door pins were cut right where the taper began.
Thus, I could shorten the Al door pin but that means I lose the 1/8"
engagement past the door frame.
Then I thought, what I really want is just a longer ratchet travel. IE,
from locked to fully open, I just want that travel to be a bit longer.
That means ordering new CRACK's - the sliding metal with teeth. For
whatever reason, just 1 of them costs $75 from Vans. I need 2 for L and
R doors, so that means $150 for a few inches of metal.
Thus, if I had to do over again, I would cut those CRACK's longer than
plans. You could always drill a hole anywhere along its length to put an
arbitrary stop at any point to make them shorter. What you cannot do is
make them longer again, unless you pay $150 for it.
Jae
40533
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
Hi Ben
I considered the approach you suggested but decided against it for a couple
of reasons. First, Cutting 1/4" off *neatly* would be difficult, at least
for me. Most importantly though is that it would mean reducing the depth
that the rear attach bolts on the Rivethead blocks "grab". I believe that
Steve Deniri's blocks screw in from the front so this wouldn't be a concern
for his blocks.
With notching, it is always easy to repair a mistake with a little flox and
epoxy. It is not so easy to fix poorly cut aluminum.
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: September-29-09 1:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Several ways to skin a cat here. Instead of cutting out the fiberglass I
sliced about a 1/4" off the back of the rivethead block on the bandsaw. I
then used the 1/4" thick piece in place of the front rivethead door block.
This allowed me to leave the front door pin much longer.
For the back door pin I sized that so it just clears the rivethead door
block. This gives me a fairly decent amount of the door pin through the
aluminum framing. I don't recall the exact depth it extends. I'll have to
look at it next time I install the doors (they aren't on the fuse at this
time).
I think I'll take a second look at it though at a later date and see if I
can get the rear pins to extend farther through the aluminum. I recall it
being 1/2" or so. That might be a bit slim if the door bows in flight very
much.
-Ben Westfall
-----Original Message-----
Jae
There is another solution, if I understand your problem, which is much
simpler & cheaper.
I had a problem in that after I mounted the nylon door blocks on the door
and then glassed them in, there was interference between the Rivet head
blocks & the door pins / nylon blocks on the door. I simply notched out the
fibreglass door frame so the Rivethead blocks now mount directly on the
aluminum frame (and not on the fibreglass)
Problem solved & I still have pins that extend into the door frame.
The advantage of this solution is that the gap between the Rivethead blocks
and the nylon door blocks is quite small so it a) helps ensure good door
alignment in the opening and b) minimizes the unsupported gap for the door
pin between the frame and the door blocks.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - still living in f/g hell
-----Original Message-----
I'll add my 2c to add to this discussion.
After installing my rivethead aero door guides, I realized that my door
pins did not retract enough into the door when latch is open. They stuck
out just enough, less than a 1/4", where they would not clear the guides
to let me close the door. However, I could twist the door slightly and
they would clear the guide. In the locked position, the aluminum door
pin just barely, 1/8" maybe, extends beyond the metal door frame for a
positive engagement. The Al door pins were cut right where the taper began.
Thus, I could shorten the Al door pin but that means I lose the 1/8"
engagement past the door frame.
Then I thought, what I really want is just a longer ratchet travel. IE,
from locked to fully open, I just want that travel to be a bit longer.
That means ordering new CRACK's - the sliding metal with teeth. For
whatever reason, just 1 of them costs $75 from Vans. I need 2 for L and
R doors, so that means $150 for a few inches of metal.
Thus, if I had to do over again, I would cut those CRACK's longer than
plans. You could always drill a hole anywhere along its length to put an
arbitrary stop at any point to make them shorter. What you cannot do is
make them longer again, unless you pay $150 for it.
Jae
40533
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net> |
| Subject: | Trimming Control Column Mounts |
I'm about at this step, and Phil's QB feedback prompted this question
from me:
Is there any reason (other than to save weight) for trimming the control
column mounts? Would it cause interference problems with anything later?
Here's the step (copied from Phil's email)
28-4 Step #1) Radius the corners and remove material from the middle of
both control column mounts. (Remove hatched area).
-Jim 40384 (Its been a rough year, along with the death of a very close
friend.. Progress has been slow)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> |
Hi Les,
Yes, I kept the door guide unmodified and instead shaved the fiberglass
down a bit, too. I didn't shave all the fiberglass out down to the
metal, though, because the fit seemed to work well this way for me. The
delrin blocks on the doors are forced into alignment by the rivethead
blocks when closing. I only shaved enough to create a flat spot for the
rivethead guide to sit on since the back of the rivethead guides are flat.
However, even still, the aluminum door tube was still too long for me. I
think the difference may be that, at the time, I was shooting for having
the aluminum tube extend thu the metal frame, goal #1. IE, if you
removed the rivethead pins, the aluminum tube still extended behind the
metal frame. That was the easy part. The problem was that the TUBE and
PIN would not fully recess into the delrin block on the door, goal #2.
To have goal #1 and goal #2 both, i think requires the longer latch travel.
I know plenty of people who only have the PINS go extend past the metal
door frame, which is probably what i'll end up doing too. I know a
builder who has expoxied his door pins in, which is probably a good idea
too.
I hope that explains it better. For most people, i think you can ignore
everything I have said. I just mentioned it in case someone decides to
shoot for the same goals mentioned above.
Jae
40533
Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Jae
>
> There is another solution, if I understand your problem, which is much
> simpler & cheaper.
>
> I had a problem in that after I mounted the nylon door blocks on the door
> and then glassed them in, there was interference between the Rivet head
> blocks & the door pins / nylon blocks on the door. I simply notched out the
> fibreglass door frame so the Rivethead blocks now mount directly on the
> aluminum frame (and not on the fibreglass)
>
> Problem solved & I still have pins that extend into the door frame.
>
> The advantage of this solution is that the gap between the Rivethead blocks
> and the nylon door blocks is quite small so it a) helps ensure good door
> alignment in the opening and b) minimizes the unsupported gap for the door
> pin between the frame and the door blocks.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> #40643 - still living in f/g hell
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
IMHO, if you are using the aluminum guide set, why would it be necessary fo
r the pin to protrude into the metal part of the door frame.- Certainly t
he aluminum billet receiver isn't going to give up.- Nor are the 2 bolts
holding it in place.... that only leaves the original Van's tubing and the
aluminum pin.... if those go, it won't matter if it's through the metal doo
r frame or not, you're screwed.- Am I missing something here.- Why woul
d anyone leave that original Van's setup on their plane.- I installed it,
and after a few months through the building process, the alum tubing had g
orged/cut the receiver to death.- I knew that either I was going to make
something else, or someone else would.- This time, someone else did.
Don McDonald
--- On Tue, 9/29/09, Jae Chang wrote:
From: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 9:47 AM
I'll add my 2c to add to this discussion.
After installing my rivethead aero door guides, I realized that my door pin
s did not retract enough into the door when latch is open. They stuck out j
ust enough, less than a 1/4", where they would not clear the guides to let
me close the door. However, I could twist the door slightly and they would
clear the guide. In the locked position, the aluminum door pin just barely,
1/8" maybe, extends beyond the metal door frame for a positive engagement.
The Al door pins were cut right where the taper began.
Thus, I could shorten the Al door pin but that means I lose the 1/8" engage
ment past the door frame.
Then I thought, what I really want is just a longer ratchet travel. IE, fro
m locked to fully open, I just want that travel to be a bit longer. That me
ans ordering new CRACK's - the sliding metal with teeth. For whatever reaso
n, just 1 of them costs $75 from Vans. I need 2 for L and R doors, so that
means $150 for a few inches of metal.
Thus, if I had to do over again, I would cut those CRACK's longer than plan
s. You could always drill a hole anywhere along its length to put an arbitr
ary stop at any point to make them shorter. What you cannot do is make them
longer again, unless you pay $150 for it.
Jae
40533
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
"I just want that travel to be a bit longer.
That means ordering new CRACK's"
Remove the stop rivet from the shorter of the two, then re-rig to give yourself
a bit more throw. The remaining stop rivet will limit travel for both racks.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265614#265614
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
Jae
You may find that you have to revisit this *if* you decide to glass in the
nylon blocks that re recessed on the door. I made them flush all the way
round which reduced the clearance to the door mounted blocks.
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang
Sent: September-29-09 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
Hi Les,
Yes, I kept the door guide unmodified and instead shaved the fiberglass
down a bit, too. I didn't shave all the fiberglass out down to the
metal, though, because the fit seemed to work well this way for me. The
delrin blocks on the doors are forced into alignment by the rivethead
blocks when closing. I only shaved enough to create a flat spot for the
rivethead guide to sit on since the back of the rivethead guides are flat.
However, even still, the aluminum door tube was still too long for me. I
think the difference may be that, at the time, I was shooting for having
the aluminum tube extend thu the metal frame, goal #1. IE, if you
removed the rivethead pins, the aluminum tube still extended behind the
metal frame. That was the easy part. The problem was that the TUBE and
PIN would not fully recess into the delrin block on the door, goal #2.
To have goal #1 and goal #2 both, i think requires the longer latch travel.
I know plenty of people who only have the PINS go extend past the metal
door frame, which is probably what i'll end up doing too. I know a
builder who has expoxied his door pins in, which is probably a good idea
too.
I hope that explains it better. For most people, i think you can ignore
everything I have said. I just mentioned it in case someone decides to
shoot for the same goals mentioned above.
Jae
40533
Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Jae
>
> There is another solution, if I understand your problem, which is much
> simpler & cheaper.
>
> I had a problem in that after I mounted the nylon door blocks on the door
> and then glassed them in, there was interference between the Rivet head
> blocks & the door pins / nylon blocks on the door. I simply notched out
the
> fibreglass door frame so the Rivethead blocks now mount directly on the
> aluminum frame (and not on the fibreglass)
>
> Problem solved & I still have pins that extend into the door frame.
>
> The advantage of this solution is that the gap between the Rivethead
blocks
> and the nylon door blocks is quite small so it a) helps ensure good door
> alignment in the opening and b) minimizes the unsupported gap for the door
> pin between the frame and the door blocks.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> #40643 - still living in f/g hell
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
Yes I definitely have less threads making contact in the rivethead block.
It's a balancing act between bottoming out the an bolt in the rivethead
block and adding enough washers on the bolt head side to keep it from
bottoming but still getting enough threads to grab.
I actually was able to free hand the cut on the bandsaw and it came out
pretty good. The cut side is a bit rough but I put that side toward the
fiberglass.
I thought about your method too and what steered me this way is that I was
leery of cutting into the fiberglass at that point as the door posts are
essentially the "roll bar" if you will. Does the load from the door posts
transfer all the way down to the horizontal deck or is it held by the AN
hardware through the aluminum posts above the door blocks? Would that size
hold in the post change the structural integrity? I really don't know.
I have thought about ordering the Deniri blocks to get around the bolt
"grab" issues. I still might...
-Ben
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Hi Ben
I considered the approach you suggested but decided against it for a couple
of reasons. First, Cutting 1/4" off *neatly* would be difficult, at least
for me. Most importantly though is that it would mean reducing the depth
that the rear attach bolts on the Rivethead blocks "grab". I believe that
Steve Deniri's blocks screw in from the front so this wouldn't be a concern
for his blocks.
With notching, it is always easy to repair a mistake with a little flox and
epoxy. It is not so easy to fix poorly cut aluminum.
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: September-29-09 1:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Several ways to skin a cat here. Instead of cutting out the fiberglass I
sliced about a 1/4" off the back of the rivethead block on the bandsaw. I
then used the 1/4" thick piece in place of the front rivethead door block.
This allowed me to leave the front door pin much longer.
For the back door pin I sized that so it just clears the rivethead door
block. This gives me a fairly decent amount of the door pin through the
aluminum framing. I don't recall the exact depth it extends. I'll have to
look at it next time I install the doors (they aren't on the fuse at this
time).
I think I'll take a second look at it though at a later date and see if I
can get the rear pins to extend farther through the aluminum. I recall it
being 1/2" or so. That might be a bit slim if the door bows in flight very
much.
-Ben Westfall
-----Original Message-----
Jae
There is another solution, if I understand your problem, which is much
simpler & cheaper.
I had a problem in that after I mounted the nylon door blocks on the door
and then glassed them in, there was interference between the Rivet head
blocks & the door pins / nylon blocks on the door. I simply notched out the
fibreglass door frame so the Rivethead blocks now mount directly on the
aluminum frame (and not on the fibreglass)
Problem solved & I still have pins that extend into the door frame.
The advantage of this solution is that the gap between the Rivethead blocks
and the nylon door blocks is quite small so it a) helps ensure good door
alignment in the opening and b) minimizes the unsupported gap for the door
pin between the frame and the door blocks.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - still living in f/g hell
-----Original Message-----
I'll add my 2c to add to this discussion.
After installing my rivethead aero door guides, I realized that my door
pins did not retract enough into the door when latch is open. They stuck
out just enough, less than a 1/4", where they would not clear the guides
to let me close the door. However, I could twist the door slightly and
they would clear the guide. In the locked position, the aluminum door
pin just barely, 1/8" maybe, extends beyond the metal door frame for a
positive engagement. The Al door pins were cut right where the taper began.
Thus, I could shorten the Al door pin but that means I lose the 1/8"
engagement past the door frame.
Then I thought, what I really want is just a longer ratchet travel. IE,
from locked to fully open, I just want that travel to be a bit longer.
That means ordering new CRACK's - the sliding metal with teeth. For
whatever reason, just 1 of them costs $75 from Vans. I need 2 for L and
R doors, so that means $150 for a few inches of metal.
Thus, if I had to do over again, I would cut those CRACK's longer than
plans. You could always drill a hole anywhere along its length to put an
arbitrary stop at any point to make them shorter. What you cannot do is
make them longer again, unless you pay $150 for it.
Jae
40533
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob and Karen Brown" <bkbrown(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
Kevin, what engine do you have? Is it stock IO-540 or "built" w 9:1's,
electronic ignition, etc?
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
Attaching a pic of my louvers. One on each side. Have 15 hrs on ac with new
IO 540. After first 5 hrs CHT's have settled down to 350-380. Oil temps have
never exceeded 190. Stock Van's cowl, cooler etc. In Vt so oat not like the
southwest. Max temp flown 85. I believe the louver is a key variable. Built
a Glastar with O360 with cooler on firewall. had a horrible time with oil
temps and had to move cooler to front baffle. Did not use a louver but felt
that could make a big difference which I think has been the case with the RV
10. The 10 is a great airplane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
Sad to see that the door issue has come back to the fore. If I recall, this
was on my list of issues that got slammed awhile back. Looking forward to a
tested solution that involves both a primary and secondary latch, such as
autos have. Would the strap be strong enough for secondary? Not sure. I
think Tim James has designed such. John Cox, do you remember Tim's
solution? Maybe I can get out to his hanger and take some pics.
John J
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: FW: RV10-List: door
It's really essential that everyone have some improved way of keeping the
doors closed: our metal door blocks are one way, buy you could also make
your own, get Rivetheads, use a strap or something. This is happening a LOT
and it's only a matter of time until the results are very bad.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:02 PM, David McNeill wrote:
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors
and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before
takeoff.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
<http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/emoticons/smile_sad.gif>
_____
September 25, 2009 - September 28, 2009
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-fb