Rocket-Archive.digest.vol-af
February 05, 2001 - June 06, 2001
----- Original Message -----
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 5:31 AM
>
> Listers
> I asked this question a couple of years ago and was not satisfied
with the
> responses at that time... We have various methods of getting air into our
> cockpits, engine plenum, under wing, naca vents, etc, but seldom is much
> thought given to how all that air exits the cockpit.
> I suspect most of it squirts out around the tail and some throught he
canopy
> and wing roots, but would it not be better to have it flow smoothly out in
> the best location? Kent Pacer touched on this issue in his speed mod book
> but I have never seen an RV or rocket that has addressed this problem. If
> we can get the air to go out smoother then less effort will be required to
> introduce the air.
> I ask this now as I am doing my tail faring. There is a nice
little gap
> under the rear horizontal stablizer and I wonder if some vents in this
area
> would be appropriate, any ideas?
>
> Tom Martin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Martin" <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
David
I had a couple of holes in my aft baggage wall as well, the problem is
not
getting the air in but where is the best place for the air to get smoothly
out of the airplane without creating drag. Any thoughts out there about the
best place to put a NACA duct in backwards?
Tom Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
Deffner
Sent: February 5, 2001 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: venting air
Last year a fellow on the RV list commented on the difficulty of getting air
and heat into the cabin. His solution was, I believe a 2 inch hole in the
aft baggage area. He lived up north and said it worked great in summer and
winter.
David working on a Tx Rocket
Do not archieve
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 5:31 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: venting air
>
> Listers
> I asked this question a couple of years ago and was not satisfied
with the
> responses at that time... We have various methods of getting air into our
> cockpits, engine plenum, under wing, naca vents, etc, but seldom is much
> thought given to how all that air exits the cockpit.
> I suspect most of it squirts out around the tail and some throught he
canopy
> and wing roots, but would it not be better to have it flow smoothly out in
> the best location? Kent Pacer touched on this issue in his speed mod book
> but I have never seen an RV or rocket that has addressed this problem. If
> we can get the air to go out smoother then less effort will be required to
> introduce the air.
> I ask this now as I am doing my tail faring. There is a nice
little gap
> under the rear horizontal stablizer and I wonder if some vents in this
area
> would be appropriate, any ideas?
>
> Tom Martin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
> cockpits, engine plenum, under wing, naca vents, etc, but seldom is much
> thought given to how all that air exits the cockpit.
> I suspect most of it squirts out around the tail and some throught he
> canopy
> and wing roots, but would it not be better to have it flow smoothly out in
> the best location? Kent Pacer touched on this issue in his speed mod book
> but I have never seen an RV or rocket that has addressed this problem. If
> we can get the air to go out smoother then less effort will be required to
> introduce the air.
> I ask this now as I am doing my tail faring. There is a nice
> little gap
> under the rear horizontal stablizer and I wonder if some vents in this
> area
> would be appropriate, any ideas?
>
I also have seen holes in the rear seat bulkhead to allow air to
exit. Some of you may recall that my RV-4 canopy was a two piece
installation that was split at the rear seat bulkhead (details are in the
RV-list archives). The front part flopped as usual, and the rear part was
fixed to the turtledeck. At a glance it didn't look much different from a
stock installation, that is until you opened it. Then it was obvious. I
liked this installation very much for reasons that are in the archives.
What's this got to do with air exit vents???? Well, the exit air
went out the vertical 1/8" gap between the two canopy parts. Sucked it
right outta there! Good ventilation in that low pressure area. Remember
how many 4's have a problem with the rear canopy skirt raising in flight?
That's because of the low pressure. So just drill a 6" diameter hole in
that area and you're all set. . Seriously though, some ventilation
holes through the baggage area are a sound idea. I plan to put some mesh
over them so they look nice. If I ever get to that point .
On another topic, I hear reports that Bill Asbell and Phil Watson's
F-1 is on the gear and really moving along.
Vince Frazier
3965 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-985-7309 home
812-464-1839 work
Harmon Rocket II
http://www.usi.edu/CHEM/FACULTY/vfrazier/page1.html
"It is easier to beg for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tails Pump: Pacer(sp) Was Right! |
| From: | Gary Graham <beeb(at)teleport.com> |
To those of you who want better air flow through (hot and cold) the cockpit
with smaller systems providing you with greater comfort, you need to stop
the battle of inlet air coming from the front of the plane(your design) with
that coming from the tail (and to some extent from the wings, rear canopy
skirt, flap rod holes, etc.). The RV-4 tail PUMPS!!! and I suspect that the
other designs do also. You can mitigate this problem as many s-cans have (
or use the tail as a source of pressure air).
I learned of this issue from books and followed up with empirical methods.
After 35hrs. in the back of an RV-4, X-country, that had a single hole in
the fire wall (no hoses in cockpit) providing heat evenly to the cockpit
(front and back) I wanted to know how it worked so well. Because other RV's
didn't, including mine. Sleeping under the wing, I spotted a hole in the
belly that turned out to be one of those plastic NACA Ducts BACKWORDS. WAS
this it? I wasn't about to cut up my bird to find out. The owner had
purchased the RV-4 and had no idea why it was there. He thought it was part
of the design (no hoses to it).
Here is how I got my air conditioning GRINN: RV-4 Fastback
To stop cold air from coming in an freezing certain body parts:
1. I sewed up some boots for the aileron push tubes from light weight
synthetic leather(garment from the GoodWill).
2. Sealed the canopy to canopy rails with "P-Strip" from Van's.
Sealed the front of the canopy to the cowl boot with the silicone
pressed into plastic wrap.
Sealed the front right corner of the canopy to canopy rail with a piece
of foam wedge.
Covered the flap arms with a shaped aluminum panel (this was for safety
also).
No problem with rear skirts because I don't have them. No stick boots
either but maybe one day. The lack of stick boots does allow for air
flow under the floorboards but I'm not sure that this is an advantage.
All of this sealing got a HALF GRINN.
My source of fresh air is a 7/8" hole in the left wing root fairing, plumbed
with 1" hose to a dash mounted Wemac(sp) ball. My source of hot air is
standard through a 1.5" valve on the center of the firewall (Lancair) In
the future I will be adding some general purpose cooling air near the ruder
pedals with a valve. Right now I am bypassing the heat exchanger in the
summer.
Before I made the full grin changes, this is what happened. I would open
my air conditioning valves and would receive a blast of air that would then
diminish as the cockpit would pressurize. The fight was on between the
front air and the tail air. The front lines were at the cockpit. Without
stick boots I have plenty of openings front to back under the floor boards.
With stick boots I would have to open a 2" (min.) hole in the baggage
compartment. The RV-4 has enough of a leak around the back seat to the
baggage compartment.
You may remember that I proved the tail pumping theory by providing a 1/4"
stream of 100LL down the belly where it proceeded to spice up my day(see
"There I was at 10,000 feet" in the RV Archives). The good and the bad of
tail pumping.
Full GRINN Time:
Improving cockpit air flow:
1. Remember that I didn't want to cut a reverse NACA Duct in my RV's
belly? It so happens that I have an inspection plate forward of the first
tail bulkheads(this was to get at the bolts that hold my tail on(first
generation mod. to equal second gen. strength). I made up a second cover
plate, cut an 1 1/4" hole in it and made a fiberglass cover for the hole
that looks like a rounded over half of a jar lid. Think of it as a reverse
scoop(idea stolen from a British Auster antique that a friend wins prizes
with). The trailing edge of this device is 1/2" and the purpose is to
create a low pressure area over the hole. I haven't sewn a boot for the
elevator push tube at that first tail bulkhead yet, but I moved the battle
front back to the tail. I have so much hot air that I can't open the valve
but a crack. BIG GRINN
2. Seal the tail off with a boot and put a reverse something forward of it
on the belly or wherever. My proof of concept part is just under the
leading edge of the left horz. stab. (remember that it is also an inspection
cover).
Warm in the NW
Gary Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Martin" <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Tails Pump: Pacer(sp) Was Right! |
Gary
Great Post, this is the type of info that we need to share, would you mind
sending my your phone # so I could give you a call,
Thanks
Tom martin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Graham
Sent: February 6, 2001 6:33 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: Tails Pump: Pacer(sp) Was Right!
To those of you who want better air flow through (hot and cold) the cockpit
with smaller systems providing you with greater comfort, you need to stop
the battle of inlet air coming from the front of the plane(your design) with
that coming from the tail (and to some extent from the wings, rear canopy
skirt, flap rod holes, etc.). The RV-4 tail PUMPS!!! and I suspect that the
other designs do also. You can mitigate this problem as many s-cans have (
or use the tail as a source of pressure air).
I learned of this issue from books and followed up with empirical methods.
After 35hrs. in the back of an RV-4, X-country, that had a single hole in
the fire wall (no hoses in cockpit) providing heat evenly to the cockpit
(front and back) I wanted to know how it worked so well. Because other RV's
didn't, including mine. Sleeping under the wing, I spotted a hole in the
belly that turned out to be one of those plastic NACA Ducts BACKWORDS. WAS
this it? I wasn't about to cut up my bird to find out. The owner had
purchased the RV-4 and had no idea why it was there. He thought it was part
of the design (no hoses to it).
Here is how I got my air conditioning GRINN: RV-4 Fastback
To stop cold air from coming in an freezing certain body parts:
1. I sewed up some boots for the aileron push tubes from light weight
synthetic leather(garment from the GoodWill).
2. Sealed the canopy to canopy rails with "P-Strip" from Van's.
Sealed the front of the canopy to the cowl boot with the silicone
pressed into plastic wrap.
Sealed the front right corner of the canopy to canopy rail with a piece
of foam wedge.
Covered the flap arms with a shaped aluminum panel (this was for safety
also).
No problem with rear skirts because I don't have them. No stick boots
either but maybe one day. The lack of stick boots does allow for air
flow under the floorboards but I'm not sure that this is an advantage.
All of this sealing got a HALF GRINN.
My source of fresh air is a 7/8" hole in the left wing root fairing, plumbed
with 1" hose to a dash mounted Wemac(sp) ball. My source of hot air is
standard through a 1.5" valve on the center of the firewall (Lancair) In
the future I will be adding some general purpose cooling air near the ruder
pedals with a valve. Right now I am bypassing the heat exchanger in the
summer.
Before I made the full grin changes, this is what happened. I would open
my air conditioning valves and would receive a blast of air that would then
diminish as the cockpit would pressurize. The fight was on between the
front air and the tail air. The front lines were at the cockpit. Without
stick boots I have plenty of openings front to back under the floor boards.
With stick boots I would have to open a 2" (min.) hole in the baggage
compartment. The RV-4 has enough of a leak around the back seat to the
baggage compartment.
You may remember that I proved the tail pumping theory by providing a 1/4"
stream of 100LL down the belly where it proceeded to spice up my day(see
"There I was at 10,000 feet" in the RV Archives). The good and the bad of
tail pumping.
Full GRINN Time:
Improving cockpit air flow:
1. Remember that I didn't want to cut a reverse NACA Duct in my RV's
belly? It so happens that I have an inspection plate forward of the first
tail bulkheads(this was to get at the bolts that hold my tail on(first
generation mod. to equal second gen. strength). I made up a second cover
plate, cut an 1 1/4" hole in it and made a fiberglass cover for the hole
that looks like a rounded over half of a jar lid. Think of it as a reverse
scoop(idea stolen from a British Auster antique that a friend wins prizes
with). The trailing edge of this device is 1/2" and the purpose is to
create a low pressure area over the hole. I haven't sewn a boot for the
elevator push tube at that first tail bulkhead yet, but I moved the battle
front back to the tail. I have so much hot air that I can't open the valve
but a crack. BIG GRINN
2. Seal the tail off with a boot and put a reverse something forward of it
on the belly or wherever. My proof of concept part is just under the
leading edge of the left horz. stab. (remember that it is also an inspection
cover).
Warm in the NW
Gary Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tails Pump: Pacer(sp) Was Right! |
| From: | Gary Graham <beeb(at)teleport.com> |
This is a re-post to hopefully clarify some of the confusion I created with
the original post. I am photo challenged but will include a phone number.
To those of you who want better air flow through (hot and cold) the cockpit
with smaller systems providing you with greater comfort, you need to stop
the battle of inlet air coming from the front of the plane(your design) with
that coming from the tail (and to some extent from the wings, rear canopy
skirt, flap rod holes, etc.). The RV-4 tail PUMPS!!! and I suspect that the
other designs do also. You can mitigate this problem as many s-cans have (
or use the tail as a source of pressure air).
I learned of this issue from books and followed up with empirical methods.
After 35hrs. in the back of an RV-4, X-country, that had a single hole in
the fire wall (no hoses in cockpit) providing heat evenly to the cockpit
(front and back) I wanted to know how it worked so well. Other RV's didn't
work this well, including mine. Sleeping under the wing, I spotted a hole
in the center of the belly of the tail cone that turned out to be one of
those plastic NACA Ducts BACKWORDS(located 49" ahead of the back end of the
fuselage). WAS this it? I wasn't about to cut up my bird to find out. The
owner had purchased the RV-4 and had no idea why it was there. He thought
it was part of the design (no hoses to it).
Here is how I got my air conditioning GRIN: RV-4 Fastback
To stop cold air from coming in and freezing certain body parts:
1. I sewed up some boots for the aileron push tubes from light weight
synthetic Swede leather(womens garment from the GoodWill provided the
material).
2. Sealed the canopy to canopy rails with "P-Strip" from Van's.
Sealed the front of the canopy to the cowl boot with the silicone pressed
into plastic wrap.
Sealed the front right corner of the canopy to canopy rail with a piece
of foam wedge.
Covered the flap arms with a shaped aluminum panel (this was for safety
also).
No problem with rear skirts because I don't have them. No stick boots
either but maybe one day. The lack of stick boots does allow for air
flow under the floorboards but I'm not sure that this is an advantage.
All of this sealing got a HALF GRIN.
My source of fresh air is a 7/8" hole in the left wing root fairing, plumbed
with 1" hose to an instrument panel mounted Wemac(sp) ball. My source of
hot air is a standard heat exchanger through a 1.5" valve(Lancair) on the
center of the firewall. In the future I will be adding some general purpose
cooling air near the ruder pedals with a valve. Right now I am bypassing
the heat exchanger in the summer.
Before I made the full grin changes, this is what happened. I would open
my air conditioning valves and would receive a blast of air that would then
diminish as the cockpit would pressurize. The fight was on between the
front air and the tail air. The "front lines"(front lines= that point where
the two pressure fronts meet) were at the cockpit. Without stick boots I
have plenty of openings front to back under the floor boards. With stick
boots I would have to open a 2" (min.) hole in the back of the baggage
compartment(in a location where baggage would not block it). The RV-4 has
enough of an air flow leak around the back seat to the baggage compartment.
You may remember that I proved the tail pumping theory by providing a 1/4"
stream of 100LL down the belly where it proceeded to spice up my day(see
"There I was at 10,000 feet" in the RV Archives). The good and the bad of
tail pumping.
Full GRIN Time:
Improving cockpit air flow:
1. Remember that I didn't want to cut a reverse NACA Duct in my RV's
belly? It so happens that I have an inspection hole forward of the first
tail bulkheads(this was to get at the bolts that hold my tail on(first
generation mod. to equal second gen. strength). I made up a second cover
plate for that hole, cut an 1 1/4" hole in it and made a fiberglass cover
for the hole that looks like a rounded over half of a jar lid. Think of it
as a reverse scoop(idea stolen from a British Auster(sp) antique that a
friend wins prizes with). The trailing edge of this device is a 1/2" above
the cover plate surface. The rounded over leading edge is a 3/16"
radius(from the side it looks like the top half of a wing leading edge) and
the purpose is to create a low pressure area over the hole. I haven't sewn
a boot for the elevator push tube at that first tail bulkhead yet, but I
moved the battle "front lines" back to the tail where the air flow is vented
via the device I made up. I now have so much hot air that I can't open the
valve but a crack. BIG GRIN.
2. Seal the tail off with a boot and put a reverse something(NACA Duct
(inset) or low pressure device (outset) forward of the booted bulkhead on
the belly or wherever. My proof of concept part is just under the leading
edge of the left horse. stab. (remember that it is also an inspection
cover).
Warm in the NW
Gary Graham
503 648-6123
Sorry about the confusion from the first post.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tails Pump: Pacer(sp) Was Right! |
Hi Gary and all,
I'm not sure I followed what you did from a system perspective.
Did you seal the fuselage along its length, add a vent in the tailcone, and
provide hot and cold inlet air at the front?
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Deffner" <deffner(at)glade.net> |
"Mark Fredrick"
| Subject: | Fw: Electric from air |
I must be behind the times something terrible. I had not heard of
this technology. How about you Rocketeers?
Is this akin to getting blood out of a turnip? Hmm...
David # 5
----- Original Message -----
From: Rod Kirkendall
Ryser ; David Deffner
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 10:47 AM
Subject: Electric from air
Ten O'Clock Tech: Power From Thin Air
While the state of California and its power utilities struggle for a
solution to the state's ongoing electrical power crisis, residents have
had to adjust to life with electrical power that's as dependable as an
aging car: Most of the time it works, but sometimes it doesn't.
A steady stream of electrical power is crucial, especially among the
gadget set. Many electronic devices need to be recharged almost daily,
and the most common of these is the mobile phone. But you can't recharge
anything during a rolling blackout. What if you could recharge it out of
thin air?
Electric Fuel's Instant Power Battery: extra juice when you need
it.
That's the idea behind a pair of products from Electric Fuel (nasdaq:
EFCX), which makes zinc-air batteries that use the oxygen in the air to
create electricity. Its battery technology can be used in all types of
applications, like consumer electronics, electric cars and defense
products.
In the last few weeks, the company has debuted several batteries and
rechargers under the brand name Instant Power for the most popular
models of mobile phones from Nokia (nyse: NOK), Motorola (nyse: MOT) and
Ericsson (nasdaq: ERICY). Attach one of the single-use batteries to the
back of the phone, and you'll have as much as three to five times as
much power that you typically get from your regular rechargeable
battery. Once it's used up, you can throw it away. They sell for about
$17 each.
The battery generates power through a chemical action stimulated by its
contact with oxygen. Like regular alkaline batteries, zinc-air batteries
produce electricity through the controlled oxidation of zinc. But a
regular battery stores its oxygen inside; zinc-air batteries draw oxygen
from the open air.
Electric Fuel's charger: Charge your cell phone by candlelight.
The company also makes phone chargers, which use the same method of
producing electricity to charge the phone's internal rechargeable
battery up to three times before it runs out of power. For the charger
you'll also need to purchase a connection cord that fits with your
particular model of mobile phone, which you'll keep to use again. The
charger with the cord sells for about $30 retail, while charger refill
cartridges sell for about $15.
Electric Fuel's stock price spiked toward the end of 1999, right when
paranoia about power outages caused by the Y2K bug was at a fever pitch.
On Dec. 17, 1999, it closed at $1.63 per share. It then went on a
24-session tear, peaking at $15.25 a share on Jan. 24. Since then it's
been all over the map. It hit its highest close at $20.81 last March,
only to drop all the way to $4.13 in December, but has been climbing
slowly but steadily since.
Other than mobile-phone batteries, the company is involved in electric
vehicles and is developing electric buses for mass transportation in
cities. It also develops power products for use by Army soldiers in the
field and just landed a contract to sell 500 battery packs to the U.S.
Army as part of a trial. The batteries will be used to power radios and
field telephones and an anti-tank missile launch unit.
Too bad the company can't find a way to ensure power for all of
California.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hr2pilot(at)aol.com |
Rocket builders keep up the good work and congratulations to Danny Hurd the
64th
Rocket II to fly.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Deffner" <deffner(at)glade.net> |
| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
Hooray!! Good job Danny! I'll follow ya this year.
F1 #5
David
Do not archieve
----- Original Message -----
From: <Hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 3:25 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: (no subject)
>
> Rocket builders keep up the good work and congratulations to Danny Hurd
the
> 64th
> Rocket II to fly.
> John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | News flash Who is Second |
| From: | CAPTAIN KAOS <kaos(at)captainkaos.com> |
F1builders lists
http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com/news/index.html
Worth a look
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: News flash Who is Second |
>
> http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com/news/index.html
> Worth a look
Right you are, captain.
Archie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elbie(at)aol.com (by way of Matt Dralle 925-606-1001 <dralle(at)matronics.com>) |
2/9/2001
Fellow Pilots and Builders:
EM aviation is pleased to announce that the RiteAngle III Angle of
Attack system is in production. I know this has been a long, long wait for
some of you, however I will not sell a system that is not up to my standards.
The long delay was partially caused by the total new design required
after the RiteAngle 2000 system was terminated. The remainder of the delay
was insuring the system met all our requirements such as both hot and cold
environment testing. The first production group of systems off the line
are being again extensively tested for approximately 2 weeks before we
deliver any systems to insure there are no "bugs" appearing.
When all production testing is accomplished I will ship according to who
has sent in the order form via fax or US mail. (Again, DO NOT send your
credit card number via e-mail! I DO NOT have a secure e-mail line.)
If you want a spot in line for early delivery you can request this via
e-mail, and mail your check or CC number.
At present time I estimate 4- 10 weeks before your delivery, depending on
when I receive your payment.
To those of you who have been in correspondence with me for the last year,
thanks for your belief in EM aviation's product, and soon you will have a
product in your hands. I honor my correspondence of the quoted price.
Current price $295 + mount & options see web site for information.
www.riteangle.com
Elbie Mendenhall
President
EM Aviation, LLC
P NE Prairie Rd
Brush Prairie WA 98606
360-260-0772
www.riteangle.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Rudder pedal questions |
Rocketeers,
As I am waiting for the humidity to drop from 101% so I can do a bit paint
and prime, I'm fabricating bits and pieces. A couple of questions came up
tonight.
On the HRII do the F444 rudder/brake brackets get shortened to about 6"
(compared to RV4)? Seems that it must be for them to fit between the top
firewall angle and the firewall recess bend.
You buys who have gone before, did you go ahead and mount those to the
firewall before jigging it or wait til later? It appears that it woud be
easier on the bench!
Aloha,
Russ
HRII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Martin" <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder pedal questions |
Russ
Yes the brackets are a little shorter, just make them fit. As for hanging
the rudder pedals now, this will save lots of time later. you should clamp
the firewall to the 404 bulkhead using those centre two floor pieces. Those
are the deep ones that run from the 404 to the firewall. They run back at
an angle and to get the pedals to hang right and clear these pieces you
should have them clamped in place when drilling the mounts for the pedals.
After you have done this rivet the mounts to the firewall now, it is much
easier on the bench.
Tom Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Russ Werner
Sent: February 12, 2001 4:08 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Rudder pedal questions
Rocketeers,
As I am waiting for the humidity to drop from 101% so I can do a bit paint
and prime, I'm fabricating bits and pieces. A couple of questions came up
tonight.
On the HRII do the F444 rudder/brake brackets get shortened to about 6"
(compared to RV4)? Seems that it must be for them to fit between the top
firewall angle and the firewall recess bend.
You buys who have gone before, did you go ahead and mount those to the
firewall before jigging it or wait til later? It appears that it woud be
easier on the bench!
Aloha,
Russ
HRII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Carter" <ronc(at)metropolis.slc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal questions |
Russ-
Get your entire firewall/ rudder pedal assembly built on the bench. Do you
have Vans fuselage instruction manual? Also there are some old copies of the
Rocketeer newsletter that may help. I could fax them to you. Make sure the
rudder pedals clear the center fuselage floor beams that run fore and aft
and the outside edges of the foot well, the pedals tend to drag on the
footwell outside edges very easily. Yes the rudder pedal mounting brackets
are shorter on the rocket- check the plans. Actually I cant quite remember
if that is on the plans.
Ron Carter
#149
----- Original Message -----
From: Russ Werner <russ(at)maui.net>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:08 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Rudder pedal questions
>
> Rocketeers,
>
> As I am waiting for the humidity to drop from 101% so I can do a bit paint
> and prime, I'm fabricating bits and pieces. A couple of questions came up
> tonight.
>
> On the HRII do the F444 rudder/brake brackets get shortened to about 6"
> (compared to RV4)? Seems that it must be for them to fit between the top
> firewall angle and the firewall recess bend.
>
> You buys who have gone before, did you go ahead and mount those to the
> firewall before jigging it or wait til later? It appears that it woud be
> easier on the bench!
>
> Aloha,
>
> Russ
> HRII
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal questions |
Ron,
I'll look and see if I have the old newlsetters around here. I think I do
somewhere.
In terms of sequence, I think I'll jig the firewall and the 404, get the
keel beams figured out, then unjig and finish the rudder pedal stuff on the
firewall. If anyone else is interested, I have 3 great photos of this area
showing mods that Art Chard uses when building an RV4. He beefs this stuff
substantially. I'm doing most of that also. I can email the photos to
anyone interested.
Aloha hui ho,
Russ
HRII
----- snip-----
> Get your entire firewall/ rudder pedal assembly built on the bench. Do you
> have Vans fuselage instruction manual? Also there are some old copies of
the
> Rocketeer newsletter that may help. I could fax them to you. Make sure the
> rudder pedals clear the center fuselage floor beams that run fore and aft
> and the outside edges of the foot well, the pedals tend to drag on the
> footwell outside edges very easily.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KAOS <kaos(at)captainkaos.com> |
Rocket list
Tr web page has had some major work
Worth a look
Updated regularly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Round Head #4 Rivets |
One of the first tough things I remember as a new builder was using the gun
and bucking bar setting 1/8 rivets in the various skeletons. I recall that
one in my tail was tried a few times and got worse each time. A call (cry)
to Vans taught me that I could use a 3/16 bolt with a nylock nut there for
the fix.
Awhile later I bought a computer and got on this RV List that I had been
hearing about. I soon started to catalog neat tips and suggestions. One
thing that caught my attention right away was several people discussing how
to get these round head 1/8 rivets perfect every time. They were talking
about using hockey shin guard tape over the rivet sets on the gun. I
thought, hey that's cool but it must be the same as vinyl electrical tape.
So I tried it but still got the occasional smile next to a rivet. I then
started trying all other different kinds of tape with again the occasional
smile. I just couldn't get why those Listers were so adamant that shin guard
tape is the ultimate solution.
Finally about a year ago I went to Burnaby 8 Rinks and got some of this shin
guard tape. It comes in a massive roll around the same width as electrical
tape. It is enough for about a hundred builders to complete their projects.
It is almost rubbery and stretches evenly when putting on shin guards. It is
much thicker than electrical tape.
I took it home and low and behold I haven't pooched a rivet since. This
stuff is the goods. Perfect rivets every time. Why? I don't know but I do
know that every one should try this stuff. I can't say this enough, it makes
a difference.
Go to your local hockey store and get some, put a small piece on the head of
your gun set, it will never slip again. I change it every 5-10 rivets. Use
your local yellow pages under "sporting goods".
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Martin" <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
On this rocket I have the forward mounted fuel controller. This opens up
the right rear baffle for the oil cooler. On the last one the cooler was on
the left side. It worked well but was very tight, the other side affords
more room but there does not seem to be a good place to mount it. Has
anyone mounted the cooler on this side? There is room to mount it directly
on the baffle itself and although there would be more vibration the
installation would be easier. Any ideas or pics out there?
Tom martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Knight <knightair(at)lv.rmci.net> |
| Subject: | Knight Upholstery for Rocket |
Rocket Builders:
I have moved to Las Vegas. Please note my new telephone number and e-mail
address.
I have been in the upholstery business for 28 years and have been making
upholstery products for kitplanes for 16 years. I have interior kits
available for the Harmon Rocket. I also have cabin covers and other items.
I am the supplier of upholstery products for several kitplane manufacturers.
A list of other kitplane interior products available upon request.
For more information, call Knight Aircraft Interiors, Inc., at (702)
207-6681 or e-mail me at knightair(at)lv.rmci.net. If you e- mail for
information, please mention either "Knight" or "Upholstery" in your
reference line so I can give your request my immediate attention. Photos
available upon request.
Sincerely,
KNIGHT AIRCRAFT INTERIORS, INC.
"Fly by Knight" Upholstery Products
Sam Knight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Hall <tkhall(at)highland.net> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Irvine <wgirvine(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Firewall to jig spacing |
I'm just getting started putting together an HR2
fuselage, got the firewall nailed together, now can
someone tell me what thickness do I use for the spacer
between the firewall and the jig? The RV manual says
to use 3/4", but when I do the math using HR drawings
101 and 146, I get 3-15/16". Is this right?
Bill Irvine
Lancaster, CA
"I'd rather be flying my 310."
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimandkathy" <jimandkathy(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall to jig spacing |
Hi Bill,
I believe I used the location of the F-404 bh to determine the firewall
spacing aft of the jig. Assuming your jig horizontal members (bulkhead
locations) are all in the right place, getting the firewall in the right
place should be easy, just measure fwd from the F-404 bh location on the jig
the distance given on John's plans. Even though the firewall is first on
the jig, it's exact location is not important because of builder induced
variances from jig to jig. The important thing is to have it positioned
correctly in relation to the F-404 location. Hang the firewall, position
the F-404, and then fine tune the location of the firewall.
My firewall was just a couple of inches from the jig.
Jim Stone
Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Irvine <wgirvine(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 11:58 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: Firewall to jig spacing
>
> I'm just getting started putting together an HR2
> fuselage, got the firewall nailed together, now can
> someone tell me what thickness do I use for the spacer
> between the firewall and the jig? The RV manual says
> to use 3/4", but when I do the math using HR drawings
> 101 and 146, I get 3-15/16". Is this right?
>
> Bill Irvine
> Lancaster, CA
> "I'd rather be flying my 310."
>
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Hall <tkhall(at)highland.net> |
| Subject: | Rear Canopy catches |
I don't seem to have any details or picts regarding rear canopy
catches......I assume that they attach along inboard side of rear canopy
track and protrude over the top to snag the rear canopy pins.
1) How do they need to attach to canopy rails?
2) Got any tricks for determining best location so that they will hold well,
but not too much?
Tom #15
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firewall to jig spacing |
In a message dated 02/28/2001 9:00:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
wgirvine(at)yahoo.com writes:
> I'm just getting started putting together an HR2
> fuselage, got the firewall nailed together, now can
> someone tell me what thickness do I use for the spacer
> between the firewall and the jig? The RV manual says
> to use 3/4", but when I do the math using HR drawings
> 101 and 146, I get 3-15/16". Is this right?
>
> Bill Irvine
> Lancaster, CA
> "I'd rather be flying my 310."
>
Hi Bill,
The space between the firewall and jig is for clearance of the forward side
skin as it wraps around the firewall. You'll need 1 1/2" minimum.
Probably the most important dimension is between the firewall to the main
spar bulkhead.
Of course, the wing determines the spacing of the main spar bulkhead to the
rear spar bulkhead.
Jim Ayers
HR2 sn 269 fuselage out of jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Martin" <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Firewall to jig spacing |
The comments about using the 404 bulkhead as a place to start are all right
on. Another thing you might consider is to jig the engine mount to the
firewall at the same time. This would mean moving the forward uprights even
further forward. The advantage of doing this is there will be no doubt
about your mount fitting later in construction. No shims or filing will be
necessary. To mount the motor mount/firewall to the jig I used lengths of
3/8" threaded rod with lots of nuts. This allows you to move the firewall
in and out in to faclitate the critical alignment to the fuselage.
Have fun
Tom Martin
HR2 wiring and plumbing to go!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firewall to jig spacing |
Hi Bill:
There is no hard and fast rulle for this dim. You will have to set the
correct dim from your #12 bulkhead, and the distance from the jig arms will
be what it is.
Now, a recommended minimum distance might be useful -- 1.5" like another
lister suggested sounds OK for side skin and assy process clearance.
Tweaking the firewall to get it centered and pointed at the center of the
tailpost (at the same time) will be tedious, with all the cross-measuring
necessary to get it right. Adjustable fasteners at the corners will help here
(threaded rod with as many nuts as needed works OK).
Keep working -- it's worth it!
Cheers
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 03/01/01 |
In a message dated 3/1/01 11:58:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rocket-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
> >
> >
>
Here=E2=80=99s a win-win offer!
I am about to embark on a first-time Rocket kit build and this may be my
only one. I
would like to save $ by acquiring used tools from a Van=E2=80=99s or derivative
builder who is
finished or about to complete, and also may not be planning another.
Please do not reply through the list, but directly to me: DvdBock(at)AOL.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Info on aussie f1 (good looking) |
| From: | KAOS <kaos(at)captainkaos.com> |
F1builders lists
Well Doug has build a great f1qb
I have spent the week end with him and his wife and over the next couple of
days I will have another page set up with all photos and verbal stories
We even have video which you will be able to down load
Captain kaos
Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | HERE'S THE PHOTOS |
| From: | KAOS <kaos(at)captainkaos.com> |
Rocket list
http://www.captainkaos.com/doug/index.html
HERE ARE SOME PHOTOS
TO HAVE A LOOK
MORE TOMORROW
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 03/05/01 |
Subject: Rocket-List: Info on aussie f1=A0 (good looking)
Captain kaos
Well, all us potential (and actual?) F1 QB builders will be waiting. Will
you let us know?
Bock
Redondo Beach
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KAOS <kaos(at)captainkaos.com> |
Rocket list
We have added some new articles in the news letter section
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terminaltown(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Terminal Town is For Sale |
kolb-list(at)matronics.com
We are in Seattle, Wa. and I just finished putting in order more than 100,000
terminals and other inventory items that launched off their shelves and
formed up into a pile during our quake last week when most of our system fell
over due to a 6.8 earth shaking. It was truly scary and awesome all at the
same moment.
As it says above, Terminal Town is for sale. The site and inventory. It's a
good, small easy to run business that you can run out of a garage size
building. The price is between $10 and $15K depending on the final value of
the present inventory.
Why is it for sale? My wife and I started this business together about 8
years ago and have enjoyed growing it. But our interests have changed.
If you are interested in having an up and running fun
E business that meets a market need. Contact me at
206-242-2527 or E mail me at terminaltown(at)aol.com!
In the mean time I have shut the shopping cart off to stop any further orders
from coming in so I can get a handle on the inventory.
Best regards,
John @ Terminal Town's Home Page!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KAOS <kaos(at)captainkaos.com> |
Rocket list
I have added the blown up photo's of Doug's f1 qb
http://www.captainkaos.com/doug/index.html
There are aprox 200 kb and will take aprox on a 56 k modem 30sec each
Just click on the pictures that are on that page to access large photo
We have added a popup menu to the Team Rocket web page to help keep you in
touch with the updates , this will save a lot time searching the site,
This can be found on the front page
http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com
All updates with be forwarded to the email list's to help you keep up with
the changes
CAPTAIN KAOS
kaos(at)captainkaos.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Thomson <jthomson-cdm(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Just finished my HRII ... see you at Oshkosh! |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hr2pilot(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Just finished my HRII ... see you at Oshkosh! |
Congratulations To Bob Marshall,Truckee Ca #66
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com |
test
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | CG Program Available From Matronics (long) |
> Listers,
>
> The other day I was feeling bad about not helping support the Lists that
> Matt allows us to use.
> A long time ago, I had written a Center of Gravity program with a older
> version of visual basic but it had problems running on other systems but
my
> own. I thought I might give it to Matt as a small payment and he could
use
> it as he wanted. Anyway, I finally got a new version of VB and rewrote
the
> program. It has been tested on most of my friends computers (IBM and its
> clones) and seems to run on all of them. I am sure someone will find a
way
> to crash the program but it looks like it works pretty well.
>
> As I am building a Harmon Rocket, it is based on the RV series aircraft.
> The numbers were taken from Van's manuals and or supplied from other
> listers. Note, I don't have any of the RV-9 numbers so they default to
the
> same as the rocket. So, after the RV-9 builders supply me with the
correct
> numbers I will change the program. The RV-8 numbers were supplied from
> other Listers so if wrong please let me know.
>
> Anyway, there are no instructions with the program but it is easy to use.
> Only the boxes in the "Calculated Flight Conditions" cann't be changed by
> the user.
> First, select the type of aircraft.
> Second, change any number to the values you want to see. The graphic will
> show the results.
>
> Here is a very good way to use the program.
> Change the numbers to reflect your aircraft's empty weight and CG.
> By changing the other numbers, the conditions for the most forward CG, Aft
> CG can be found quickly.
>
> Want to see the effects of moving the battery from the baggage area to the
> between the pilot's feet in the RV-4.
> Put the weight of the battery but as a negative in the baggage box.
> Then use a user defined slot to put the weight and ARM of the new
location.
> DONE
>
> Anyway, Matt has put the program up on his site at the following location:
>
>
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Public/t.gummo(at)verizon.net/Center_Of_Gravity_Cal
> culator.exe
>
> If you download it and use it, I think a small donation to Matt would be
in
> order (say $5.00).
>
> NOTES:
> 1. Matt did not write this program so don't complaint to him if you
have
> problems with it.
> 2. Any type of plane can use the program but will have to input all the
> numbers.
> 3. I plan to update the program as required but not to expand it
outside
> the RV series aircraft.
> 4. The program doesn't save your changes.
> 5. I am thinking about adding a method to allow the program to get/save
> data to a database (Micosoft Access) but I just started a new job and time
> to work on this is very limited. (Besides, I want to get my Harmon Rocket
> flying in my lifetime.)
>
> So, sent the donations to Matt and the complaints to me.
> t.gummo(at)verizon.net
> Have fun with the program.
>
> Tom Gummo
> Apple Valley, CA
> HR-II project finally moved to the APV airport.
> Goal is the fly it to OSH this year (Looks good so far)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tails Pump: Pacer(sp) Was Right! |
| From: | Gary Graham <beeb(at)teleport.com> |
To those of you who want better air flow through (hot and cold) the cockpit
with smaller systems providing you with greater comfort, you need to stop
the battle of inlet air coming from the front of the plane(your design) with
that coming from the tail (and to some extent from the wings, rear canopy
skirt, flap rod holes, etc.). The RV-4 tail PUMPS!!! and I suspect that the
other designs do also. You can mitigate this problem as many s-cans have (
or use the tail as a source of pressure air).
I learned of this issue from books and followed up with empirical methods.
After 35hrs. in the back of an RV-4, X-country, that had a single hole in
the fire wall (no hoses in cockpit) providing heat evenly to the cockpit
(front and back) I wanted to know how it worked so well. Because other RV's
didn't, including mine. Sleeping under the wing, I spotted a hole in the
belly that turned out to be one of those plastic NACA Ducts BACKWORDS. WAS
this it? I wasn't about to cut up my bird to find out. The owner had
purchased the RV-4 and had no idea why it was there. He thought it was part
of the design (no hoses to it).
Here is how I got my air conditioning GRINN: RV-4 Fastback
To stop cold air from coming in an freezing certain body parts:
1. I sewed up some boots for the aileron push tubes from light weight
synthetic leather(garment from the GoodWill).
2. Sealed the canopy to canopy rails with "P-Strip" from Van's.
Sealed the front of the canopy to the cowl boot with the silicone pressed
into plastic wrap.
Sealed the front right corner of the canopy to canopy rail with a piece
of foam wedge.
Covered the flap arms with a shaped aluminum panel (this was for safety
also).
No problem with rear skirts because I don't have them. No stick boots
either but maybe one day. The lack of stick boots does allow for air
flow under the floorboards but I'm not sure that this is an advantage.
All of this sealing got a HALF GRINN.
My source of fresh air is a 7/8" hole in the left wing root fairing, plumbed
with 1" hose to a dash mounted Wemac(sp) ball. My source of hot air is
standard through a 1.5" valve on the center of the firewall (Lancair) In
the future I will be adding some general purpose cooling air near the ruder
pedals with a valve. Right now I am bypassing the heat exchanger in the
summer.
Before I made the full grin changes, this is what happened. I would open
my air conditioning valves and would receive a blast of air that would then
diminish as the cockpit would pressurize. The fight was on between the
front air and the tail air. The front lines were at the cockpit. Without
stick boots I have plenty of openings front to back under the floor boards.
With stick boots I would have to open a 2" (min.) hole in the baggage
compartment. The RV-4 has enough of a leak around the back seat to the
baggage compartment.
You may remember that I proved the tail pumping theory by providing a 1/4"
stream of 100LL down the belly where it proceeded to spice up my day(see
"There I was at 10,000 feet" in the RV Archives). The good and the bad of
tail pumping.
Full GRINN Time:
Improving cockpit air flow:
1. Remember that I didn't want to cut a reverse NACA Duct in my RV's
belly? It so happens that I have an inspection plate forward of the first
tail bulkheads(this was to get at the bolts that hold my tail on(first
generation mod. to equal second gen. strength). I made up a second cover
plate, cut an 1 1/4" hole in it and made a fiberglass cover for the hole
that looks like a rounded over half of a jar lid. Think of it as a reverse
scoop(idea stolen from a British Auster antique that a friend wins prizes
with). The trailing edge of this device is 1/2" and the purpose is to
create a low pressure area over the hole. I haven't sewn a boot for the
elevator push tube at that first tail bulkhead yet, but I moved the battle
front back to the tail. I have so much hot air that I can't open the valve
but a crack. BIG GRINN
2. Seal the tail off with a boot and put a reverse something forward of it
on the belly or wherever. My proof of concept part is just under the
leading edge of the left horz. stab. (remember that it is also an inspection
cover).
Warm in the NW
Gary Graham
P.S.
This is the posting I submitted on 2/06/01 I can't take credit for the for
the info. posted on 3/14/01 with my name signed. ref. vents used in the
housing market (I have not tested these, but they make sense to me).
Gary
PPS. " Battle front" is a metaphor for the area in the plane where the good
air(wanted for heat or cooling) meets the bad air(flowing forward from the
high pressure tail area). The reversed NACA Duct on my friends RV-4 is 49"
forward of the last bulkhead.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com |
Hello listers,
I am new to this list, with plans to start building a Rocket soon. I have
been reading
the archives for the past 3-4 months to gain more knowledge about Rockets and
I
personally think that this medium is fantastic.
I would like to ask your help with the following:
1. Does anyone know a Rocket-man in or close to Raleigh-Durham, North
Carolina?
2. Does anyone know a "hired (rivet) gun" in that area (100 mile radius)
since I am
in a hurry to take off :-)
Will appreciate any leads. Thanks.
/Hans Altena
Cary, North Carolina
(919) 412 6221
Still on the fence with my $$$
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
yak-list(at)matronics.com, rocket-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | New Webpages on Jet830 CNC Converstion... |
Hi Listers,
A couple of people emailed me and ask if I was ever going to finish my
web site on the Jet 830 Vertical Mill CNC conversion that I did a
couple of years back. Hum, I thought, that's a good idea... So I took
a few pictures today and put up a site on the converstion. Feel free
to email me if you have questions. It was a really fun project, and
well, everyone needs a CNC mill... ;-)
Have a look at the following URL for the new Jet 830 pages:
http://www.matronics.com/cnc2
And here's a link to the older pages on the CNC converstion I did on
the Sherline milling machine:
http://www.matronics.com/cnc
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin Heisler" <majh(at)islandtelecom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocket in NC |
HI , i built and sold a rocket to a guy in tuscaloosa alabama . his name is
ernest hale.
ehale@Cheyenne-Enviro.com
you could try him. i could and do build parts and planes for others , about
11 now , i am just finishing a couple of lancair IV's and will be looking
for another job after sun.n.fun . there are some reasonable ways to help
keep the cost down if you are interested i could help you out with as little
as just more information . you can use the advise or forget it.
try ernest.............marty
-----Original Message-----
From: RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com <RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com>
Date: Friday, March 16, 2001 12:20 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket in NC
>
>Hello listers,
>I am new to this list, with plans to start building a Rocket soon. I have
>been reading
>the archives for the past 3-4 months to gain more knowledge about Rockets
and
>I
>personally think that this medium is fantastic.
>I would like to ask your help with the following:
>
>1. Does anyone know a Rocket-man in or close to Raleigh-Durham, North
>Carolina?
>2. Does anyone know a "hired (rivet) gun" in that area (100 mile radius)
>since I am
> in a hurry to take off :-)
>
>Will appreciate any leads. Thanks.
>/Hans Altena
>Cary, North Carolina
>(919) 412 6221
>Still on the fence with my $$$
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hr2pilot(at)aol.com |
Congratulations Jim Thompson #67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | N-number reservation? |
Hi Rocket men,
does anyone know how to reserve a N-number with the FAA? I guess I need to
fill out forms, any place I can download them?
/Hans Altena
Cary, North Carolina
(919) 412 6221
Sitting on the fence with my $$$
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rocket in NC |
Martin,
thank you for the information. I got some offers as reply on my posting and
right
now I am considering the options. Have to think about the 51%, huh ;-)
I will certainly contact the guy in Alabama, again, thanks.
/Hans Altena
Cary, North Carolina
(919) 412 6221
Sitting on the fence with my $$$
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | N-number reservation? |
Take a look here:
http://vondane.com/rv8a/nnumber.htm
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 12.16 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: N-number reservation?
Hi Rocket men,
does anyone know how to reserve a N-number with the FAA? I guess I need to
fill out forms, any place I can download them?
/Hans Altena
Cary, North Carolina
(919) 412 6221
Sitting on the fence with my $$$
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rocket in NC and more |
HI Hans:
There are several in NC: Brian Campbell has an HR2 in Elizebethtown, there is
an F1 in Ashboro, and there are two more F1s in Bladenboro. Brian's is the
only one flying of this group, but the two F1s in Bladenboro are close.
There's another F1 in Hilton Head SC.
Don't call Earnest -- he demolished that ship last week. Seems a rudder cable
came loose from the pedal, and the rest is history. Tailwheel ships do not go
straight without good guidance, and a missing cable attachment kept Earnest
from controlling his ship. He's OK, and he's looking forward to getting the
replacement parts going in the proper direction.
My count shows 4 HR2s are no longer "on the books". 4 total losses out of 67
flying examples shows the reason for the difficulty in procuring insurance
for this type of aircraft -- that's a pretty high ratio. Add the numerous
prop strikes, and you'll see why the insurance companies run the other way.
Avemco will write the F1, but I suspect they will require some training as
part of their contract.
Cheers
Mark
Team Rocket Inc
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rocket in NC and more |
In a message dated 3/18/2001 2:01:53 PM Central Standard Time, Mlfred(at)aol.com
writes:
> My count shows 4 HR2s are no longer "on the books". 4 total losses out of 67
> flying examples shows the reason for the difficulty in procuring insurance
> for this type of aircraft -- that's a pretty high ratio. Add the numerous
> prop strikes, and you'll see why the insurance companies run the other way.
> Avemco will write the F1, but I suspect they will require some training as
> part of their contract.
>
> Cheers
> Mark
> Team Rocket Inc
Mark had me check out Avemco, casue I own a F1 and I own and insurance
agency. Heres the deal with Avemco they are the best place for insurance by
far at this point in time. Once more F1's are flying that may change. THe
F1 fits in the same catagory as the RV8 at this point in time. They do
require a tailwheel endorsement. They also want 5 hours time in type. They
would also like 50 hours of tail wheel time, but thats not mandatory. The
rate for a novice pilot, myself is this.
Builders risk, 40,000 of value is 384 a year. For inflight coverage of
80,000 value it will be 2800 a year, with million liability limits, This is
for me a pilot of just over 100 hours and a 10 hours tail wheel time and 5
hours in a rocket. Hope this helps
Chris Wilcox, President
CGW Insurance/Investments
Oshkosh, WI
www.cgwi.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lee" <leetay(at)idcomm.com> |
| Subject: | NC Rockets--taildragger flying |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
CW9371(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket in NC and more
In a message dated 3/18/2001 2:01:53 PM Central Standard Time,
Mlfred(at)aol.com
writes:
> My count shows 4 HR2s are no longer "on the books". 4 total losses out of
67
> flying examples shows the reason for the difficulty in procuring insurance
> for this type of aircraft -- that's a pretty high ratio. Add the numerous
> prop strikes, and you'll see why the insurance companies run the other
way.
> Avemco will write the F1, but I suspect they will require some training as
> part of their contract.
>
> Cheers
> Mark
> Team Rocket Inc
Mark had me check out Avemco, casue I own a F1 and I own and insurance
agency. Heres the deal with Avemco they are the best place for insurance by
far at this point in time. Once more F1's are flying that may change. THe
F1 fits in the same catagory as the RV8 at this point in time. They do
require a tailwheel endorsement. They also want 5 hours time in type. They
would also like 50 hours of tail wheel time, but thats not mandatory. The
rate for a novice pilot, myself is this.
Builders risk, 40,000 of value is 384 a year. For inflight coverage of
80,000 value it will be 2800 a year, with million liability limits, This is
for me a pilot of just over 100 hours and a 10 hours tail wheel time and 5
hours in a rocket. Hope this helps
Chris Wilcox, President
CGW Insurance/Investments
Oshkosh, WI
www.cgwi.com
Just general comments, guys, from someone who has been around taildraggers
a little. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, if you are not highly proficient in
taildraggers, especially high-performance ones, GET SOME EXPERIENCE with a
GOOD taildragger instructor, preferably A LOT, before risking everything you
have and are in going out by yourself the first time. Taildraggers are
not
the least bit dangerous, but they are DIFFERENT, and they are MORE DEMANDING
of attention. If you let one of them get a bit out of sorts, you will be
amazed as to how INTENSELY DEMANDING they very quickly become. The secret
is just plain NEVER letting them get out of sorts, and the only way for that
to happen is through MUCH PRACTICE. Primarily there is a quantum shift in
your mental on-the-ground attitude, from tricycle flying. Until you have
that practice, thoroughly develop that mental attitude, with that safety
valve in the back seat, you are in very dangerous territory.
A short time ago I was taking a moderately experienced Bonanza pilot for
a
lesson in his (newly acquired) Citabria. (one of the world's tamest
taildraggers). He was doing fine, until on one landing, at about 20 mph,
HE TURNED AROUND IN THE SEAT AND STARTED TO SAY SOMETHING!!!!! He could get
away with that in the Bonanza, BUT CERTAINLY NOT IN A TAILDRAGGER!!
Please, guys, don't take (stupid) risks with your birds. Get some GOOD
taildragger time, and be proficient in something like a Pitts S-2A or some
other high-performance, reasonably demanding instructor-equipped taildragger
before trying your Rockets. To not do so is just plain foolish. That
4-out-of-67 accident rate highlights this. And that is ones destroyed. The
"damaged" rate would, probably, be a little more-------Don't let yours be an
addition to the list, simply because you were negligent in getting
proficient in what will be a more demanding type of flying.
Lee Taylor
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NC Rockets--taildragger flying |
I guess I should have added, the quote for me, my ships still a year away
from being done due to the cost of the engine and avionics. Also I Mark is
going to check me out on the F1 rocket and he is an instructor so it should
be fine. Next the F1 is better handling then a Harmon, and much better then
a pitts from what i have been told. Plus I will have 100,000 tied up in my
plane so i know i will be careful, very carefull. But it still has to be
safer the motorcycles at 150 mph. Just more expensive.
Also in regards to teh 4 out of 67. 1 ran out of fuel and crashed, 1 was
destroyed by a tornado, not sure about the other 2. The Harmon is also nose
heavy and has a different gear setup the the F1.
But yes I will get training and my training is going to be with Mark, but
also just so you know I am not ignoring your point, I will feel safe and
comfortable in it before I fly it myself and that will come about though
training and practice. I am not stupid, i was just pointing out the
insurance cost for someone with low time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Taildragger flying |
Lee,
Having accumulated some T/W experience myself, I understand and agree with
what
you are saying. It seems that just about the time you think you have it mastered
is
when it will bite you. Several years ago I had an embarrassing morning with a T-6.
After the dust had settled a well known, war bird, air show performer can up to
me and
said: "There are only three kinds of tail dragger pilots,...Those that have,...Those
that haven't yet,.....and Those that will again."
Doug
Lee wrote:
> Just general comments, guys, from someone who has been around taildraggers
> a little. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, if you are not highly proficient in
> taildraggers, especially high-performance ones, GET SOME EXPERIENCE with a
> GOOD taildragger instructor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hr2pilot(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: NC Rockets--taildragger flying |
I have flown a dozen or more talewheel aircraft and have not found one easier
to handle on the ground than the Rocket II And that may be the problem.
As for the accedence 3 Were mechanical and the others were the pilots taking
a nap.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hr2pilot(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: NC Rockets--taildragger flying |
Hay Mark, How many times have you crashed your HRII?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larry boggan" <laboggan(at)hotmail.com> |
Anyone know a good, reasonable upholsterer that can make my seats on my
rocket?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lee" <leetay(at)idcomm.com> |
| Subject: | NC Rockets--taildragger flying |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Hr2pilot(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: NC Rockets--taildragger flying
I have flown a dozen or more talewheel aircraft and have not found one
easier
to handle on the ground than the Rocket II And that may be the problem.
As for the accedence 3 Were mechanical and the others were the pilots taking
a nap.
John
Hi, John,
I do have to agree with your last comment! I have not personally flown
the
Rocket or F-1, but I have done the test-flying on a couple of RV-4's,
and -6's. They are great handling on the ground, maybe a little too much
so, which I'd imagine the Rocket/F-1 even improves on. One of my early
experiences with the -4 was that I relaxed a little too much too soon,
(bored), and it gently reminded me that IT WAS STILL A TAILDRAGGER! Only
about a 5-ft little swerve, but it was enough to regain my attention.
Everyone reread the last comment by Doug--only too true, and that's why
we
are taildragger PILOTS, not airplane drivers like the rest of the world.
Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NC Rockets--taildragger flying |
In a message dated 3/18/2001 7:24:51 PM Central Standard Time,
Hr2pilot(at)aol.com writes:
> Hay Mark, How many times have you crashed your HRII?
thats a low blow john, lol
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larry boggan" <laboggan(at)hotmail.com> |
Speaking of insurance, I was quoted nearly 4,000 a year by avemco once I
start flying mine. I have over 1,000 hours, commercial, but low taildragger
time....but even with 50 hours, which they wanted it was well over 3,600 a
year....and the next crossover point of 100 hours still kept it way up
there.
No accidents ever,..etc.....
I am trying a few others.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 3/18/2001 7:44:20 PM Central Standard Time,
laboggan(at)hotmail.com writes:
> Speaking of insurance, I was quoted nearly 4,000 a year by avemco once I
> start flying mine. I have over 1,000 hours, commercial, but low
> taildragger
> time....but even with 50 hours, which they wanted it was well over 3,600 a
> year....and the next crossover point of 100 hours still kept it way up
> there.
> No accidents ever,..etc.....
> I am trying a few others.
>
is that a harmon or f1. They rate them different. Also what is the hull
value. You also need to speak to a supervisor on the F1, they are pretty
clueless there.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NC Rockets--taildragger flying |
That ain't no low blow Chris. Mark's the only Ace on the list!
Russ
----- Original Message -----
From: <CW9371(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: NC Rockets--taildragger flying
>
> In a message dated 3/18/2001 7:24:51 PM Central Standard Time,
> Hr2pilot(at)aol.com writes:
>
>
> > Hay Mark, How many times have you crashed your HRII?
>
> thats a low blow john, lol
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Plans mods from RV6 |
Rocketeers,
If any of you are interested, I scanned the bits of plans that show the RV6
rear shoulder harness attach and the bottom of the front seatback. Both are
nice changes from the RV4/RocketII setup. If anyone wants a copy emailed
(about 100k) drop me a line offlist.
Russ Werner
Maui
HRII
russ(at)maui.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Sather" <sather1(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocket in NC and more |
Are both the HRII and F1 equal on insurance rates?
----- Original Message -----
From: <CW9371(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket in NC and more
>
> In a message dated 3/18/2001 2:01:53 PM Central Standard Time,
Mlfred(at)aol.com
> writes:
>
>
> > My count shows 4 HR2s are no longer "on the books". 4 total losses out
of 67
> > flying examples shows the reason for the difficulty in procuring
insurance
> > for this type of aircraft -- that's a pretty high ratio. Add the
numerous
> > prop strikes, and you'll see why the insurance companies run the other
way.
> > Avemco will write the F1, but I suspect they will require some training
as
> > part of their contract.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Mark
> > Team Rocket Inc
>
> Mark had me check out Avemco, casue I own a F1 and I own and insurance
> agency. Heres the deal with Avemco they are the best place for insurance
by
> far at this point in time. Once more F1's are flying that may change.
THe
> F1 fits in the same catagory as the RV8 at this point in time. They do
> require a tailwheel endorsement. They also want 5 hours time in type.
They
> would also like 50 hours of tail wheel time, but thats not mandatory.
The
> rate for a novice pilot, myself is this.
> Builders risk, 40,000 of value is 384 a year. For inflight coverage of
> 80,000 value it will be 2800 a year, with million liability limits, This
is
> for me a pilot of just over 100 hours and a 10 hours tail wheel time and 5
> hours in a rocket. Hope this helps
>
> Chris Wilcox, President
> CGW Insurance/Investments
> Oshkosh, WI
> www.cgwi.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tradezone." <tradezone(at)tradezone.com> |
I am quoted $3800 for liability and $150,000 qround damage included.
Try Falcon Insurance say I sent you. Sunshine answers the phone.
Mell
----- Original Message -----
From: "larry boggan" <laboggan(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 5:42 PM
>
> Speaking of insurance, I was quoted nearly 4,000 a year by avemco once I
> start flying mine. I have over 1,000 hours, commercial, but low
taildragger
> time....but even with 50 hours, which they wanted it was well over 3,600 a
> year....and the next crossover point of 100 hours still kept it way up
> there.
> No accidents ever,..etc.....
> I am trying a few others.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tradezone." <tradezone(at)tradezone.com> |
Use Jessy Upholstery in Camarillo Ca.
805- 647 4580
Mell
http://kitairplaneforum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "larry boggan" <laboggan(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 5:27 PM
>
> Anyone know a good, reasonable upholsterer that can make my seats on my
> rocket?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K.Janet Asbell" <kj(at)wworld.com> |
Guys looking for insurance---try AUA they have ADS in most pubs Bill#32
larry boggan wrote:
>
> Speaking of insurance, I was quoted nearly 4,000 a year by avemco once I
> start flying mine. I have over 1,000 hours, commercial, but low taildragger
> time....but even with 50 hours, which they wanted it was well over 3,600 a
> year....and the next crossover point of 100 hours still kept it way up
> there.
> No accidents ever,..etc.....
> I am trying a few others.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NC Rockets--taildragger flying |
In a message dated 3/18/2001 8:09:23 PM Central Standard Time, russ(at)maui.net
writes:
> That ain't no low blow Chris. Mark's the only Ace on the list!
>
> Russ
This is the russ in that was over at my house during airventure right, got to
hand it to mark no one has crashed a rocket quite as many times as mark. But
you got to watch out of those cables over the nude beaches etc.
Hope to see you again during airventure
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rocket in NC and more |
In a message dated 3/18/2001 8:17:56 PM Central Standard Time,
sather1(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
> Are both the HRII and F1 equal on insurance rates?
Some companies dont like the harmon right now. Accident rate is high, but
then again there are only 69 flying I beleive. F1 is a little better,but
then again there is only 1 flying. I think they will even out on insurance,
but the f1 should be slighly better rate rise due to some enginering
differences. However due to the fact the catagory is so small, I think they
will end up lumped together for rates.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 3/18/2001 9:46:09 PM Central Standard Time,
tradezone(at)tradezone.com writes:
> I am quoted $3800 for liability and $150,000 qround damage included.
> Try Falcon Insurance say I sent you. Sunshine answers the phone.
>
what about inmotion damage. Falcon was not interested in quoting either
aircraft when i talked to them last fall. Things due change. Also are you
talking F1 or Harmon
thanks
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 3/18/2001 10:48:39 PM Central Standard Time, kj(at)wworld.com
writes:
> Guys looking for insurance---try AUA they have ADS in most pubs Bill#32
Remember here there are only 11 companies writing aviation insurance in the
US. However some agencies are sticking rockets in certain programs they may
or maynot belong in.
chris
Bill, are you talking F1 or Harmon so we know if your flying or building.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimandkathy" <jimandkathy(at)email.msn.com> |
I know of one in the Louisville Ky area, are you nearby? Call me for
details (pros and cons), if you are interested.
Jim Stone
502 228-8572
----- Original Message -----
From: larry boggan <laboggan(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 8:27 PM
>
> Anyone know a good, reasonable upholsterer that can make my seats on my
> rocket?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LKDAUDT2(at)aol.com |
Call Cleaveland, The parts people, Im told they are good...
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 18-Mar-01 8:09:21 PM Central Standard Time, russ(at)maui.net
writes:
<< That ain't no low blow Chris. Mark's the only Ace on the list!
Russ
>>
Hey -- I don't think it counts if those 5 are on your side!!!? Anyway,
thanks!!
I have retired from my esteemed postion as semi-official Crash-test Dummy...I
hope.
Cheers
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NC Rockets--taildragger flying |
In a message dated 18-Mar-01 7:24:49 PM Central Standard Time,
Hr2pilot(at)aol.com writes:
<< Hay Mark, How many times have you crashed your HRII?
>>
None!!! Well, this week anyway...but there's always next week!
I hope to officially pass on the crash-test dummy job to someone else. I
reckon Steve Jackson can take that job, as he broke his plane in half at the
spar bulkhead and simply stood up and walked away. He should be a crispy
critter at minimum!
The induction hose from injector to scoop slipped off the scoop (no clamp)
and vacuumed itself to the inside of the cowling. No air = no power, and
gravity always works. He crashed into a stand of trees, so the ground impact
was not so severe.
Geez....
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Sather" <sather1(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocket in NC and more |
I thought that there was one other F1 completed that crashed because a
flexible induction hose came off and sucked itself to the side of the
cowling and lost power and went it to the trees.
----- Original Message -----
From: <CW9371(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket in NC and more
>
> In a message dated 3/18/2001 8:17:56 PM Central Standard Time,
> sather1(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
>
>
> > Are both the HRII and F1 equal on insurance rates?
>
> Some companies dont like the harmon right now. Accident rate is high, but
> then again there are only 69 flying I beleive. F1 is a little better,but
> then again there is only 1 flying. I think they will even out on
insurance,
> but the f1 should be slighly better rate rise due to some enginering
> differences. However due to the fact the catagory is so small, I think
they
> will end up lumped together for rates.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K.Janet Asbell" <kj(at)wworld.com> |
Building an F-1---and a PITTS S-1-11 in my spare time,now I can go vertical as
well as straight `n fast. Bill#32
CW9371(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 3/18/2001 10:48:39 PM Central Standard Time, kj(at)wworld.com
> writes:
>
> > Guys looking for insurance---try AUA they have ADS in most pubs Bill#32
>
> Remember here there are only 11 companies writing aviation insurance in the
> US. However some agencies are sticking rockets in certain programs they may
> or maynot belong in.
> chris
>
> Bill, are you talking F1 or Harmon so we know if your flying or building.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rocket in NC and more |
In a message dated 3/19/2001 8:46:09 AM Central Standard Time,
sather1(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
> I thought that there was one other F1 completed that crashed because a
> flexible induction hose came off and sucked itself to the side of the
> cowling and lost power and went it to the trees.
Nope that was a Harmon. Only 2 F1 are finished. Jimmy Cashs in the US which
is flying and the one in austrailia, Not sure if that one is flying yet or
not.
I think thats the one Mark talked about in an earlier post today.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Please Explain..CW9371 |
Just about bored to tears with this Rocket List until you posted again.
Please explain to all of us how what you say is so, so we might all benifit
in our Rocket building.
In a message dated 3/18/01 1:46:33 PM Pacific Standard Time, CW9371(at)aol.com
writes:
> 1. Next the F1 is better handling then a Harmon,
>
2.=A0 I think they will even out on insurance, but the f1 should be slighly
better rate rise due to some enginering differences.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | taildragger flying humor |
Taildragger, I hate your guts,
I have the license, ratings and such
But to make you go straight is driving me nuts
With hours of teaching and the controls in my clutch
It takes a little rudder, easy that's to much!
You see I learned to fly in a tricycle gear
with one up front and two in the rear.
She was sleek and clean and easy to steer
But this miserable thing with tires and struts
Takes a little rudder, easy that's to much!
It demands your attention on the take off roll
or it heads towards Jone's as you pour on the coal.
Gotta hang loose, don't over control.
This wicked little plane is just to much.
With a lot of zigzaging and words obscene
I think I've mastered this slippery machine
It's not that bad if you have the touch
Just a little rudder, easy that's to much!
I relax for a second and from the corner of my eye,
I suddenly realize with a gasp and a cry
That's my own tail that's going by.
You ground looping wreck; I hate your guts,
Give a little rudder, DAMMIT THAT'S TO MUCH.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bryan Pender <pender(at)airmail.net> |
I've used AUA for an antique and a homebuilt. Good service and quite
reasonable rates for 3 years or so.
BP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K.Janet Asbell" <kj(at)wworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: taildragger flying humor |
Ya wanna learn t` fly taildraggers----go get a LUSCOMBE,and fly in cross
winds and all sorts of conditions and NO wheel landings!!And it`s
cheaper than $200/hour or so in a PITTS,besides they are a fun
plane!!Any ??? contact me direct at my "E" whiz!! Bill#32
MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Taildragger, I hate your guts,
> I have the license, ratings and such
> But to make you go straight is driving me nuts
> With hours of teaching and the controls in my clutch
> It takes a little rudder, easy that's to much!
>
> You see I learned to fly in a tricycle gear
> with one up front and two in the rear.
> She was sleek and clean and easy to steer
> But this miserable thing with tires and struts
> Takes a little rudder, easy that's to much!
>
> It demands your attention on the take off roll
> or it heads towards Jone's as you pour on the coal.
> Gotta hang loose, don't over control.
>
> This wicked little plane is just to much.
> With a lot of zigzaging and words obscene
> I think I've mastered this slippery machine
> It's not that bad if you have the touch
> Just a little rudder, easy that's to much!
>
> I relax for a second and from the corner of my eye,
> I suddenly realize with a gasp and a cry
> That's my own tail that's going by.
> You ground looping wreck; I hate your guts,
> Give a little rudder, DAMMIT THAT'S TO MUCH.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | You cant be second but may be third |
| From: | KAOS <KAOS(at)captainkaos.com> |
"F1builders lists
Noel Pierson" ,
Dave Ecclestone , David Hirst ,
Robert Corben ,
Brett ebbeck ,
Glen Merton ,
Mike Morgan ,
Trevor Merton <merton@nsw-mail.acenet.com.au>,
Stuart Summers
Well today Tues around 830 am the second F1 and first aussie f1 took off
for its first flight , Flight lasted aprox 25 min with out any problems
Back on the ground with a very happy pilot for a good inspection and its
next flight will be latter in the week
Congratulations to Doug Watson Queens land Australia
Captain kaos
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: You cant be second but may be third |
In a message dated 03/19/2001 6:50:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,
KAOS(at)captainkaos.com writes:
> Well today Tues around 830 am the second F1 and first aussie f1 took off
>
Congratulations.
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lee" <leetay(at)idcomm.com> |
| Subject: | taildragger flying humor |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of K.Janet
Asbell
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: taildragger flying humor
Ya wanna learn t` fly taildraggers----go get a LUSCOMBE,and fly in cross
winds and all sorts of conditions and NO wheel landings!!And it`s
cheaper than $200/hour or so in a PITTS,besides they are a fun
plane!!Any ??? contact me direct at my "E" whiz!! Bill#32
Bill, the Luscombe is one of the best training taildraggers that there
is,
anyone learning on one of them is further ahead than just about any other
"normal" taildragger trainer. However, there is a rather huge performance
difference in a Luscombe and a Rocket, and a corresponding difference in the
overall effect of the reflexes needed. I have taught in both the Luscombe,
RV-4's, 6's, and Pitts types, and the difference is rather extreme. If a
person is going to be flying something with the high-speed performance of a
Rocket, then before he tackles the Rocket, he needs some time in something
with similar performance. While I will agree (strongly!) that the Luscombe
experience can be used for the majority of the skill training needed for
competent taildragger experience, there is still a very strong need for
experience in something that much more closely represents the type of flying
that the Rocket types are going to be doing. I find that many people, good
competent Luscombe-driver types, are heavily intimidated when moving up into
this performance class, and it takes awhile and some experience with that
back-seat safety valve before they can get up to speed. (Besides, I have
yet to find a Luscombe for rent! All of my flying in them has been with
owners! Pitts are fairly available.)
Lee Taylor
MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Taildragger, I hate your guts,
> I have the license, ratings and such
> But to make you go straight is driving me nuts
> With hours of teaching and the controls in my clutch
> It takes a little rudder, easy that's to much!
>
> You see I learned to fly in a tricycle gear
> with one up front and two in the rear.
> She was sleek and clean and easy to steer
> But this miserable thing with tires and struts
> Takes a little rudder, easy that's to much!
>
> It demands your attention on the take off roll
> or it heads towards Jone's as you pour on the coal.
> Gotta hang loose, don't over control.
>
> This wicked little plane is just to much.
> With a lot of zigzaging and words obscene
> I think I've mastered this slippery machine
> It's not that bad if you have the touch
> Just a little rudder, easy that's to much!
>
> I relax for a second and from the corner of my eye,
> I suddenly realize with a gasp and a cry
> That's my own tail that's going by.
> You ground looping wreck; I hate your guts,
> Give a little rudder, DAMMIT THAT'S TO MUCH.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Captain Kaos <kaos(at)captainkaos.com> |
>>
>
> Well, if you say a modified RV 4 with a a IO-540 worth 125,000 and most
> companies go Rocket or say hell no, we wont do it. In fact Avemco and a
> couple other companies dont want to insure aircraft that dont follow the
> plans or kit in regard to major components. The thing about insurance is its
> the law of large numbers, the more insured people the lower the premium.
> There are a lot more RV'6 flying then rockets and thats why the insurance is
> reasonable on them. Life insurance on pilots is easy. No problem, Life
> insurance on a race car driver is moderately hard, ski diver is no problem,
> once your past the beginner stage life insurance is easy to get.
>
> Chris wilcox
> F1 rocket 000
I dont know why you are all complaining
Down under we cant insure the F1 or HR2
so you reckon you got it bad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K.Janet Asbell" <kj(at)wworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: taildragger flying humor |
Lee --Before I will let anyone fly my PITTS I insist that they fly/or have flown
a
LUSCOMBE or CESSNA 120,then I`m very careful to explain the diff`s.One gent had
150
hrs in a C-150,got him some C-120 time with me in the bird with him and let him
go.1500 hrs PITTS time later --no probs.Guess I learned to fly in the 1950`s and
it
was all in T/D`s and I`m not intimidated and I spend some time with the guys like
my
old IP did covering things.My T/D exper. 40 hp J-3 to P-51D and DC-3.I just got
thru
checking a friend out in a STEARMAN after about 2 hrs of dual and he had little
or no
time in T/D`s only spam cans,ie C150 and C-210.TAFN!! Bill#32 in Illinois
Lee wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of K.Janet
> Asbell
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 4:21 PM
> To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: taildragger flying humor
>
>
> Ya wanna learn t` fly taildraggers----go get a LUSCOMBE,and fly in cross
> winds and all sorts of conditions and NO wheel landings!!And it`s
> cheaper than $200/hour or so in a PITTS,besides they are a fun
> plane!!Any ??? contact me direct at my "E" whiz!! Bill#32
>
> Bill, the Luscombe is one of the best training taildraggers that there
is,
> anyone learning on one of them is further ahead than just about any other
> "normal" taildragger trainer. However, there is a rather huge performance
> difference in a Luscombe and a Rocket, and a corresponding difference in the
> overall effect of the reflexes needed. I have taught in both the Luscombe,
> RV-4's, 6's, and Pitts types, and the difference is rather extreme. If a
> person is going to be flying something with the high-speed performance of a
> Rocket, then before he tackles the Rocket, he needs some time in something
> with similar performance. While I will agree (strongly!) that the Luscombe
> experience can be used for the majority of the skill training needed for
> competent taildragger experience, there is still a very strong need for
> experience in something that much more closely represents the type of flying
> that the Rocket types are going to be doing. I find that many people, good
> competent Luscombe-driver types, are heavily intimidated when moving up into
> this performance class, and it takes awhile and some experience with that
> back-seat safety valve before they can get up to speed. (Besides, I have
> yet to find a Luscombe for rent! All of my flying in them has been with
> owners! Pitts are fairly available.)
>
> Lee Taylor
>
> MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Taildragger, I hate your guts,
> > I have the license, ratings and such
> > But to make you go straight is driving me nuts
> > With hours of teaching and the controls in my clutch
> > It takes a little rudder, easy that's to much!
> >
> > You see I learned to fly in a tricycle gear
> > with one up front and two in the rear.
> > She was sleek and clean and easy to steer
> > But this miserable thing with tires and struts
> > Takes a little rudder, easy that's to much!
> >
> > It demands your attention on the take off roll
> > or it heads towards Jone's as you pour on the coal.
> > Gotta hang loose, don't over control.
> >
> > This wicked little plane is just to much.
> > With a lot of zigzaging and words obscene
> > I think I've mastered this slippery machine
> > It's not that bad if you have the touch
> > Just a little rudder, easy that's to much!
> >
> > I relax for a second and from the corner of my eye,
> > I suddenly realize with a gasp and a cry
> > That's my own tail that's going by.
> > You ground looping wreck; I hate your guts,
> > Give a little rudder, DAMMIT THAT'S TO MUCH.
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LKDAUDT2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: You cant be second but may be third |
Extend my congrats to Doug....May he have many more good flights Larry
#001
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LKDAUDT2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rocket in NC and more |
Jeez... you guys are scarin the hell out of me...Stop it... #1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lee" <leetay(at)idcomm.com> |
| Subject: | taildragger flying humor |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of K.Janet
Asbell
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 5:35 AM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: taildragger flying humor
Lee --Before I will let anyone fly my PITTS I insist that they fly/or have
flown a
LUSCOMBE or CESSNA 120,then I`m very careful to explain the diff`s.One gent
had 150
hrs in a C-150,got him some C-120 time with me in the bird with him and let
him
go.1500 hrs PITTS time later --no probs.Guess I learned to fly in the
1950`s and it
was all in T/D`s and I`m not intimidated and I spend some time with the guys
like my
old IP did covering things.My T/D exper. 40 hp J-3 to P-51D and DC-3.I just
got thru
checking a friend out in a STEARMAN after about 2 hrs of dual and he had
little or no
time in T/D`s only spam cans,ie C150 and C-210.TAFN!! Bill#32 in Illinois
My point exactly, Bill. They get the initial taildragger experience,
develop the reflexes in a "normal" taildragger, get comfortable with them,
and then get through the "intimidation" factor in the higher-performance
bird, and at that point, they will be capable of handling the speed and
performance of the Rocket types. UNTIL THAT TIME-------Being a little
afraid of performance is the greatest factor in being able to handle these
Pitts/Rockets. Afterwards, the ego blossoms and they feel a little sheepish
remembering that. But until then, though, it is a BIG safety factor. You
dramatically described that exactly in your comment that you want any
student to be a good taildragger pilot BEFORE they ever are allowed into
your Pitts. Bet you don't just let them go solo in the Pitts right away,
though, Huh?
Lee
P.S. Hope your friend survives the Stearman experience. 2 hours
taildragger time IS NOT ENOUGH.
Lee wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of K.Janet
> Asbell
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 4:21 PM
> To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: taildragger flying humor
>
>
> Ya wanna learn t` fly taildraggers----go get a LUSCOMBE,and fly in cross
> winds and all sorts of conditions and NO wheel landings!!And it`s
> cheaper than $200/hour or so in a PITTS,besides they are a fun
> plane!!Any ??? contact me direct at my "E" whiz!! Bill#32
>
> Bill, the Luscombe is one of the best training taildraggers that
there is,
> anyone learning on one of them is further ahead than just about any other
> "normal" taildragger trainer. However, there is a rather huge performance
> difference in a Luscombe and a Rocket, and a corresponding difference in
the
> overall effect of the reflexes needed. I have taught in both the
Luscombe,
> RV-4's, 6's, and Pitts types, and the difference is rather extreme. If a
> person is going to be flying something with the high-speed performance of
a
> Rocket, then before he tackles the Rocket, he needs some time in something
> with similar performance. While I will agree (strongly!) that the
Luscombe
> experience can be used for the majority of the skill training needed for
> competent taildragger experience, there is still a very strong need for
> experience in something that much more closely represents the type of
flying
> that the Rocket types are going to be doing. I find that many people,
good
> competent Luscombe-driver types, are heavily intimidated when moving up
into
> this performance class, and it takes awhile and some experience with that
> back-seat safety valve before they can get up to speed. (Besides, I have
> yet to find a Luscombe for rent! All of my flying in them has been with
> owners! Pitts are fairly available.)
>
> Lee Taylor
>
> MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Taildragger, I hate your guts,
> > I have the license, ratings and such
> > But to make you go straight is driving me nuts
> > With hours of teaching and the controls in my clutch
> > It takes a little rudder, easy that's to much!
> >
> > You see I learned to fly in a tricycle gear
> > with one up front and two in the rear.
> > She was sleek and clean and easy to steer
> > But this miserable thing with tires and struts
> > Takes a little rudder, easy that's to much!
> >
> > It demands your attention on the take off roll
> > or it heads towards Jone's as you pour on the coal.
> > Gotta hang loose, don't over control.
> >
> > This wicked little plane is just to much.
> > With a lot of zigzaging and words obscene
> > I think I've mastered this slippery machine
> > It's not that bad if you have the touch
> > Just a little rudder, easy that's to much!
> >
> > I relax for a second and from the corner of my eye,
> > I suddenly realize with a gasp and a cry
> > That's my own tail that's going by.
> > You ground looping wreck; I hate your guts,
> > Give a little rudder, DAMMIT THAT'S TO MUCH.
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Martin" <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
I am just completing my second rocket and all this talk about insurance got
me wondering if my rates would be higher on this one. I made two calls, one
to Avemco and one to a broker. The bottom line is that rates are NOT
significantly higher than last year. A Harmon Rocket is rated at a 10%
increase over a RV6, not much in my opinion. What this means that if you
were quoted $2000 for a RV6 based on your tail dragger experience the Rocket
would cost you $2200. That does not sound like a huge increase for the
added performance. The rates will vary significantly based on tail dragger
experience and how current you are. Handled properly these are safe
airplanes and just about the most fun you can legally have.
Tom Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List: |
As it was explained to me as i explained it to the underwriter, handling wise
i ment that the f1 is not as nose heavy as the Harmon. It is less likely to
nose over. Also the landing gear design is different. I am not going to
even try to explain all the stuff Petr ( chech enginer) told me, casue i am
sure i will screw that up to. I am not saying that there is a huge
difference. I will rephase what i said, the f1 is a more refined harmon. I
appologize, i wasnt thinking clearing, or typing clearly as the case maybe.
So from now on I am going to keep my mouth shut since i always seem to piss
someone off
bye from the list
chris wilcox
F1 rocket kit 000
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 3/20/2001 11:30:09 AM Central Standard Time,
fairlea(at)execulink.com writes:
> I am just completing my second rocket and all this talk about insurance got
> me wondering if my rates would be higher on this one. I made two calls, one
> to Avemco and one to a broker. The bottom line is that rates are NOT
> significantly higher than last year. A Harmon Rocket is rated at a 10%
> increase over a RV6, not much in my opinion. What this means that if you
> were quoted $2000 for a RV6 based on your tail dragger experience the Rocket
> would cost you $2200. That does not sound like a huge increase for the
> added performance. The rates will vary significantly based on tail dragger
> experience and how current you are. Handled properly these are safe
> airplanes and just about the most fun you can legally have.
>
> Tom Martin
>
Are you insuring yours in canada or the US.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 plans bits |
Jim,
The seat mod is used to reverse the 3/4 angle at the bottom of the seatback.
I am told it is a more graceful method off attaching and it is less apt to
hit the floor. I haven't got that far yet. I just had Vans send me the
plans bits, as I heard that Mark Frederick and others have done it this way.
Good luck,
Russ
----- Original Message -----
> Thanks for the RV-6 plans. I am going to use the RV-6 rear seat shoulder
> attach points. I don't understand how the Rocket fwd seat can be moded to
> be similar to the RV-6, or why one would do it. We have a roll bar to
lean
> our seat up against, the 6 does not. Please explain what you are
thinking.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bettis GW (Gary) at Aera" <gwbettis(at)aeraenergy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 plans bits |
Thanks Russ. I was wondering what the difference was!
-----Original Message-----
From: Russ Werner [mailto:russ(at)maui.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:19 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Re: RV6 plans bits
Jim,
The seat mod is used to reverse the 3/4 angle at the bottom of the seatback.
I am told it is a more graceful method off attaching and it is less apt to
hit the floor. I haven't got that far yet. I just had Vans send me the
plans bits, as I heard that Mark Frederick and others have done it this way.
Good luck,
Russ
----- Original Message -----
> Thanks for the RV-6 plans. I am going to use the RV-6 rear seat shoulder
> attach points. I don't understand how the Rocket fwd seat can be moded to
> be similar to the RV-6, or why one would do it. We have a roll bar to
lean
> our seat up against, the 6 does not. Please explain what you are
thinking.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BuddClark(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: taildragger flying humor |
In a message dated 3/20/2001 2:21:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,
leetay(at)idcomm.com writes:
> rocket-list(at)matronics.com
The Luscombe seems to be the plane of choice to learn the intricacies of
flying a taildragger. No less than Budd Davisson recommended it to me as a
very good trainer for demanding tailwheel planes. Budd also suggested some
time in S2-B or A's, or even a Skybolt to get the higher speeds that an F-1
would have. Of course an RV-4 would work nicely as well.
Bud Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K.Janet Asbell" <kj(at)wworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: taildragger flying humor |
There is only one way to describe learning to fly a tail dragger(properly
configured a/c)"Ain`t the size of the dawg in th` fight, it`s the size of the
fight in the dawg!!"Bill#32
BuddClark(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 3/20/2001 2:21:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> leetay(at)idcomm.com writes:
>
> > rocket-list(at)matronics.com
>
> The Luscombe seems to be the plane of choice to learn the intricacies of
> flying a taildragger. No less than Budd Davisson recommended it to me as a
> very good trainer for demanding tailwheel planes. Budd also suggested some
> time in S2-B or A's, or even a Skybolt to get the higher speeds that an F-1
> would have. Of course an RV-4 would work nicely as well.
>
> Bud Clark
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hr2pilot(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: taildragger flying humor |
You guys aren't going to believe what kind of monster you getting into with
the Rocket!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Sather" <sather1(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: taildragger flying humor |
The HRII is my kind of monster, Yes
----- Original Message -----
From: <Hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: taildragger flying humor
>
> You guys aren't going to believe what kind of monster you getting into
with
> the Rocket!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dallas Benham" <dlbenham(at)smithville.net> |
| Subject: | Re: taildragger flying humor |
Yeah, its a real monster! I fly 398DB in and out of 1300' turf runway with no
problems. Its
awfully nose heavy though. Thinking about putting a nosewheel on it so it won't
fall on its nose
when I get out of the cockpit. ha
Dallas Benham
Lyons, Indiana
Builder and flyer of Harmon Rocket II and DAMMED PROUD of John Harmon's development!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K.Janet Asbell" <kj(at)wworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: taildragger flying humor |
what`s that mean????????? Bill #32
Hr2pilot(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> You guys aren't going to believe what kind of monster you getting into with
> the Rocket!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Wymer" <jwymer(at)concentric.net> |
>
> I am just completing my second rocket and all this talk about insurance
got
> me wondering if my rates would be higher on this one. I made two calls,
one
> to Avemco and one to a broker. The bottom line is that rates are NOT
> significantly higher than last year. A Harmon Rocket is rated at a 10%
> increase over a RV6, not much in my opinion. What this means that if you
> were quoted $2000 for a RV6 based on your tail dragger experience the
Rocket
> would cost you $2200. That does not sound like a huge increase for the
> added performance. The rates will vary significantly based on tail
dragger
> experience and how current you are. Handled properly these are safe
> airplanes and just about the most fun you can legally have.
>
> Tom Martin
Tom,
As a point of reference for the rest of us, what is your taildragger &
experience level?
Jerry Wymer, HRII
Starting fuselage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Martin" <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
Tom,
As a point of reference for the rest of us, what is your taildragger &
experience level?
Jerry Wymer, HRII
Starting fuselage.
Jerry
I have 988.6 hours of total time. Approximatly 300 in a Harmon Rocket,
300
in a RV4, 300 in a Citabria and the balance Cessna trainers. It took 10
years to get 300 hours in the citabria and less than 5 years to get the 600
hours in the Rocket and RV4. When you start flying a Rocket expect your
yearly hours to go way up. If you are a low time tail dragger pilot the
first year you will probably pay more for insurance but your rates should
come down a lot the next year as you are going to fly the plane much more
than any plane you have every been in before. The line up of passengers
alone will keep you busy! I never get tired of hearing controllers
ask,"ahhhh... is a Harmon Rocket a twin engine?"
Tom Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
Tom, but are you insured in canada or us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Martin" <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
Chris
I am insured in Canada and when I fly in the States. The companies are
international, I do not believe that we have a Canadian only insurance
company for aviation. Avemco is certainly an american company.
Tom Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
CW9371(at)aol.com
Sent: March 21, 2001 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: insurance
Tom, but are you insured in canada or us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin Heisler" <majh(at)islandtelecom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: taildragger flying humor |
I built and flew an early rocket . it was not a hard tailwheel plane to
handle. but i do have a lot of tail time.....marty
-----Original Message-----
From: Hr2pilot(at)aol.com <Hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:41 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: taildragger flying humor
>
>You guys aren't going to believe what kind of monster you getting into with
>the Rocket!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | CD Player Audio PAnel |
I was reading the latest Plane and Pilot and saw an ad for the PS
Engineering CD player. It's a little big, but check it out for yourself at:
http://www.ps-engineering.com/
Regards,
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
Thread-Topic: Rocket-List: insurance
Thread-Index: AcCyQLz8Rlws56KBQBujuuR3pG1eugEANXkw
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
Hi Tom,
I was searching throught the rocket list archives and it looks like you
had an -8 tail on your bird, did you have any problems running out of
elevator authority? I'm going to be building a rocket soon and am
looking for advice on what tail I need to go with...-4,-8 or F1. The -8
tail seems to have a smaller HS and elevators. I don't think I'll like
the trailing edge of the F1 tail...
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying Kokomo, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john linman" <johnl(at)aopa.net> |
| Subject: | NavAid Autopilot |
I am considering installing an autopilot in my completed and flying
Harmon Rocket II. I did not build the bird, but have had the floor
out and suspect it should probably be installed under the front seat.
I haven't found anything on the Rocket List pertaining to NavAid, but
the RV List includes installation problems such as "stick
vibrations", "wing rock", "failure to track VOR/GPS", etc. Most of
these problems seem to result from a communication breakdown between
the factory guys and the builders out in the field. Once corrected,
everyone seems to be very satisfied with the product and the company.
Another problem I am facing is the 6 month backlog in orders. I can
live with that, if I can be sure my order goes in correctly the first
time. Seems some of the RV guys initially got the wrong parts for
the type installation they were planning. This added further delays
which I am hoping I can avoid.
If you have any suggestions to help me get past these pitfalls, I'd
appreciate it.
By the way Larry Lake of Portersville, CA built my N76HR and it is a
terrific airplane. I flew fighters for 20 years and this is as good
as it gets.
John Linman Prineville,OR
www.myplaneonline.com/N76HR.html
aopa.net
The official e-mail service of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association.
Visit AOPA Online at http://www.aopa.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Martin" <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
Bob
Yes I had a RV8 tail on my rocket and will have one the one that I am
building now. The horizontal services are mostly RV6 parts except the
elevator skins are heavier and the horizontal skins are a little different
because of the narrower turtle deck of an 8 vs. a 6. Otherwise all the
parts are the same.
The only time that I felt I was close to the stops happened on a hot
day, full fuel, solo, full flaps, slower than normal, landing at a grass
strip over a stand of trees. Just as I flared the elevator hit the stop. A
brief shot of power settled the tail, no problem, but there it is.
I wonder if the new RV7 tail elevators are a little larger? I would
not change the vertical surfaces as the plane flys very straight with no
hint of the "tail wagging the dog" syndrome that I occasionally felt in my
RV4. I never did use full rudder in the rocket. When I delivered the plane
to Arizona I stopped for fuel at Gallup NM. The elevation is 6700 feet,
there was a mean 25 knot crosswind and the plane behaved very well.
I have not yet seen the F1 tail so I cannot comment on the appearance
or effectiveness. Mark has built a lot of planes and has some serious
engineers working on things so I expect it will be quite good.
Tom Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Japundza
Sent: March 26, 2001 5:16 PM
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: insurance
Hi Tom,
I was searching throught the rocket list archives and it looks like you
had an -8 tail on your bird, did you have any problems running out of
elevator authority? I'm going to be building a rocket soon and am
looking for advice on what tail I need to go with...-4,-8 or F1. The -8
tail seems to have a smaller HS and elevators. I don't think I'll like
the trailing edge of the F1 tail...
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying Kokomo, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NavAid Autopilot |
Hi John:
This unit will fit under the floor fwd of the spar on the left side. I've
installed 2 of these, and that was the easier of the two. A simple bracket
attached to the fwd end of the torque tube allows easy attachment of the
pushrod.
The unit has to be tuned in flight, and having the thing installed there made
that job easier too (have your GIB fly the ship while you tweak the servo --
if it even needs it).
Cheers
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NavAid Autopilot |
John,
Check this out:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/navaid.html
Another option for mounting.
Aloha,
Russ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
| Subject: | Version 2.0 Experimental Panel Builder |
Version 2.0 of the Experimental Panel Builder is up and running. The
response to Version 1.0 was almost overwhelming and we received many
requests for additional panels and instruments. We've tried to
accommodate as many as possible but if we've missed something please let
us know by clicking on the "Request New Panels" or "Request New
Instruments" link.
After we published version 1.0 fellow RV List member, RV-8 Builder
(soon to be RV-7 builder) and web master extraordinaire, Jared Boone
(Portland, OR) offered us some suggestions on how we could make things
work a little better. I had some discussions with Jared via email and
even tossed back a brewski or two with him on a recent visit to
Portland. Jared took time out of his busy work schedule (guess what he
does for a living) and helped turn out the version of code that you see
here. Truly remarkable and Bill and I owe him a lot of thanks.
So what's new?
First, you can now save your work. Yes, that's right. After creating a
panel, all you have to do is log out or go to another web page. The
next time you log in you're panel will still be right there were you
left off. Neat.
Space saving organization. Drop down menu's allow you to select the
panel you're interested and the category of instruments your interested
in working on. This saves space and makes creating panels easier.
Duplicate items. Now you can drag as many items onto the panel as you
like. Just keep dragging them up there. You want lots of circuit
breaker and switches. Just keep dragging them up.
If you don't like an instrument then just drag it off the panel and it
goes away. Don't like any of your work and want to start over? Just
hit the reset button.
Because of all the code changes, the time it takes for the initial page
to load has been greatly reduced because it doesn't have to load all the
images at once.
After the last version was published we received a ton or requests for
additional panels and equipment. This is where Bill Vondane came to the
rescue.
Bill jumped into action and developed no less than 20, yes 20, new
panels and added many more instruments. After Jared modified the code
to make the new changes possible, Bill had to add all the new data, and
modify things to get it published. Bill also created the user interface
and "Tips" page to help makes things a little clearer.
Bill and Jared have graciously donated LOTS of time and effort to bring
this tool to it's present state. Remember, these guys both have planes
to build and busy jobs and families to take care of.
Enjoy the updated version and let us know what you think.
Alas, there is a downside. For all those Microsoft haters out there,
this new version is even LESS Netscape friendly than the pervious
version. At this time, due to the methods used to create some of the
features, ONLY Internet Explore 5.5 can be used to access the new
features. Jared is working on making it compatible with earlier
versions of Internet Explorer so until that time, the earlier version
1.0 is still available to use.
We're talking about developing some techniques that will allow ALL
browsers to work but that's still a ways off as time and energy permits.
Check it out. http://sonexlinks.com/panelbuilder/ or link to it from
my page http://bmnellis.com or Bills page http://vondane.com/rv8a
Guess what? It's still free! What a country.
Mike Nellis
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
RV-6 N699BM (reserved)
Plainfield, IL (LOT)
http://bmnellis.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Dysinger" <larrykdysinger(at)hotmail.com> |
AeroElectric-List(at)matronics.com, Aviation-List(at)matronics.com,
Avionics-List(at)matronics.com, EZ-List(at)matronics.com,
Glasair-List(at)matronics.com, Homebuilt-List(at)matronics.com,
Kolb-List(at)matronics.com, Lancair-List(at)matronics.com,
Pitts-List(at)matronics.com, Rocket-List(at)matronics.com,
RVCanada-List(at)matronics.com, RVEurope-List(at)matronics.com,
Sonerai-List(at)matronics.com, Tailwind-List(at)matronics.com,
Zenith-List(at)matronics.com, BostonRVBuilders(at)yahoogroups.com,
oregon-rvlist(at)yahoogroups.com, RV-6and6A(at)yahoogroups.com,
SEFlaRVbuilders(at)yahoogroups.com
| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] Version 2.0 Experimental Panel Builder |
Mike,
That is great work. And thanks for sharing it with your fellow listers.
Larry
RV-8QB - Fuselage
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
Subject: [rv8list] Version 2.0 Experimental Panel Builder
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 00:00:08 -0600
Version 2.0 of the Experimental Panel Builder is up and running. The
response to Version 1.0 was almost overwhelming and we received many
requests for additional panels and instruments. We've tried to accommodate
as many as possible but if we've missed something please let us know by
clicking on the "Request New Panels" or "Request New Instruments" link.
After we published version 1.0 fellow RV List member, RV-8 Builder (soon to
be RV-7 builder) and web master extraordinaire, Jared Boone (Portland, OR)
offered us some suggestions on how we could make things work a little
better. I had some discussions with Jared via email and even tossed back a
brewski or two with him on a recent visit to Portland. Jared took time out
of his busy work schedule (guess what he does for a living) and helped turn
out the version of code that you see here. Truly remarkable and Bill and I
owe him a lot of thanks.
So what's new?
First, you can now save your work. Yes, that's right. After creating a
panel, all you have to do is log out or go to another web page. The next
time you log in you're panel will still be right there were you left off.
Neat.
Space saving organization. Drop down menu's allow you to select the panel
you're interested and the category of instruments your interested in working
on. This saves space and makes creating panels easier.
Duplicate items. Now you can drag as many items onto the panel as you like.
Just keep dragging them up there. You want lots of circuit breaker and
switches. Just keep dragging them up.
If you don't like an instrument then just drag it off the panel and it goes
away. Don't like any of your work and want to start over? Just hit the
reset button.
Because of all the code changes, the time it takes for the initial page to
load has been greatly reduced because it doesn't have to load all the images
at once.
After the last version was published we received a ton or requests for
additional panels and equipment. This is where Bill Vondane came to the
rescue.
Bill jumped into action and developed no less than 20, yes 20, new panels
and added many more instruments. After Jared modified the code to make the
new changes possible, Bill had to add all the new data, and modify things to
get it published. Bill also created the user interface and "Tips" page to
help makes things a little clearer.
Bill and Jared have graciously donated LOTS of time and effort to bring this
tool to it's present state. Remember, these guys both have planes to build
and busy jobs and families to take care of.
Enjoy the updated version and let us know what you think.
Alas, there is a downside. For all those Microsoft haters out there, this
new version is even LESS Netscape friendly than the pervious version. At
this time, due to the methods used to create some of the features, ONLY
Internet Explore 5.5 can be used to access the new features. Jared is
working on making it compatible with earlier versions of Internet Explorer
so until that time, the earlier version 1.0 is still available to use.
We're talking about developing some techniques that will allow ALL browsers
to work but that's still a ways off as time and energy permits.
Check it out. http://sonexlinks.com/panelbuilder/ or link to it from my
page http://bmnellis.com or Bills page http://vondane.com/rv8a
Guess what? It's still free! What a country.
Mike Nellis
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
RV-6 N699BM (reserved)
Plainfield, IL (LOT)
http://bmnellis.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] Version 2.0 Experimental Panel Builder |
AeroElectric-List(at)matronics.com, Aviation-List(at)matronics.com,
Avionics-List(at)matronics.com, EZ-List(at)matronics.com,
Glasair-List(at)matronics.com, Homebuilt-List(at)matronics.com,
Kolb-List(at)matronics.com, Lancair-List(at)matronics.com,
Pitts-List(at)matronics.com, Rocket-List(at)matronics.com,
RVCanada-List(at)matronics.com, RVEurope-List(at)matronics.com,
Sonerai-List(at)matronics.com, Tailwind-List(at)matronics.com,
Zenith-List(at)matronics.com, BostonRVBuilders(at)yahoogroups.com,
oregon-rvlist(at)yahoogroups.com, RV-6and6A(at)yahoogroups.com,
SEFlaRVbuilders(at)yahoogroups.com
Mike,
wonderful job. Thanks a lot !!!
(Hey, listers, shouldn't we throw a dollar in the hat for Mike ??????)
/Hans Altena
Cary, North Carolina
(919) 412 6221
Sitting on the fence with my $$$
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matthew Mucker" <mmucker(at)airmail.net> |
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] Version 2.0 Experimental |
Panel Builder
I'm so impressed, that if someone'll give me an address, I'll pitch in TWO
dollars!
-Matt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:35 PM
> To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com; rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com;
> rv-list(at)matronics.com; AeroElectric-List(at)matronics.com;
> Aviation-List(at)matronics.com; Avionics-List(at)matronics.com;
> EZ-List(at)matronics.com; Glasair-List(at)matronics.com;
> Homebuilt-List(at)matronics.com; Kolb-List(at)matronics.com;
> Lancair-List(at)matronics.com; Pitts-List(at)matronics.com;
> Rocket-List(at)matronics.com; RVCanada-List(at)matronics.com;
> RVEurope-List(at)matronics.com; Sonerai-List(at)matronics.com;
> Tailwind-List(at)matronics.com; Zenith-List(at)matronics.com;
> BostonRVBuilders(at)yahoogroups.com; oregon-rvlist(at)yahoogroups.com;
> RV-6and6A(at)yahoogroups.com; SEFlaRVbuilders(at)yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rocket-List: Re: [rv8list] Version 2.0
> Experimental Panel Builder
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com
>
> Mike,
> wonderful job. Thanks a lot !!!
>
> (Hey, listers, shouldn't we throw a dollar in the hat for Mike ??????)
>
> /Hans Altena
> Cary, North Carolina
> (919) 412 6221
> Sitting on the fence with my $$$
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
"RV-List: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Rocket-List: Re: [rv8list]
Version 2.0 Experimental Panel Builder" (Mar 28, 7:22pm)
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: RV-List: Version 2.0 Experimental Panel Builder |
I've just made my contribution to Mike Nellis' great effort. Have you?
Paypal was painless and quick. Give it a try.
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
>--------------
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane"
>
>Here you go...
>
>Experimental Panel Builder Donations...
>http://sonexlinks.com/panelbuilder/donate.htm
>
>-Bill
>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matthew Mucker"
>
>
>I'm so impressed, that if someone'll give me an address, I'll pitch in TWO
>dollars!
>
>-Matt
>--------------
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dallas Benham" <dlbenham(at)smithville.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Notification for Payment Received |
Mike:
Thanks for such an outstanding program. And thanks to Matt Dralle for reminding
me that I had
Paypal, but had forgotten about it. DLB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: Notification for Payment Received
> Dallas,
>
> Thank you very much for your donation to the Panel Tool Development fund.
> We've enjoyed putting this together and learning to do the coding almost as
> much as building the RV. We appreciate you're generosity.
>
> If there is anything you liked to see done differently or requests for
> instruments, please don't hesitate to let us know.
>
> Mike Nellis Stinson 108-2 N9666K RV-6 N699BM (reserved) Plainfield, IL (LOT)
> http://bmnellis.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | NEW THINGS FOR WEB PAGES |
| From: | KAOS <kaos(at)captainkaos.com> |
Rocket list
In the future we will be adding video to web pages to give better support
and information to customers
You will need Quick Time as this allows us to send media in a very small
file sizes
Standard pc media player will not support this ,This is the new web standard
now is and a good time to update
You download a small installer file
Which will be found on my web site
http://www.captainkaos.com
(488 kb) 1 min download @ 56 k modem
(FROM APPLES QUICK TIME WEB PAGE )
QuickTime 4.1.2 is the latest version of Apple's complete technology for
handling video, sound, animation, graphics, text, music, and even 360-degree
virtual reality (VR) scenes. A gateway for rich media including images,
music, MIDI, MP3 and more, QuickTime lets you experience more than 200 kinds
of digital media with your Mac or PC and it offers unparalleled quality,
ease of use and functionality.
QuickTime users have been enjoying quality digital video since 1991. Today,
QuickTime is rapidly becoming the most popular distributed media technology
for Windows and Mac computers.
Learn more about QuickTime and find out why top computer entertainment
companies use QuickTime to deliver digital media. Only QuickTime provides
such a high level of performance, compatibility and quality.
You can download QuickTime form
AT THIS STAGE YOU CAN ALSO DOWN LOAD THE INSTALLER FROM BELOW
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/
(488 kb) 1 min download @ 56 k modem
THEN YOUR CHOICE WILL BE
For the basic viewer is 3 meg download (9 minutes) recommended
full viewer is 6 meg download (16 min)
TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE
A 2.5 MEG (.MPEG,MPG,AVI) FILE WILL GO DOWN TO ABOUT A 250 KB( .MOV) FILE
10 TIMES SMALLER
CAPTAIN KAOS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Master cylinder position |
Rocketeers,
I'm in the process of mounting the rudder pedals on a HRII and things are
pretty tight. I can make it fit with minimum clearance if the master
cylinders are "piston down". If I move the piston to the top, things are
much better, making me more comfortable. What is the downside of inverting
the master cylinders?
I've hear that bleeding MAY be a problem this way, but I'm not sure.
Russ
Maui
HRII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Martin" <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Master cylinder position |
Russ
On this rocket I tried to do the piston down installation. I went to a
lot
of work to modify the pedal so that there was adequate clearance and yet
when I finally got around to mounting it I just was not happy with the room.
I gave up on the idea and mounted the cylinders up. The downside is that you
will probably have to undo the bottom bolt and pull the cylinder up to bleed
it. Once done, you bolt it down and forget it. Both my RV4 and my rocket
had the cylinder up, I now ask myself why I spent any time changing
something that worked OK???
Tom Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Russ Werner
Sent: March 31, 2001 4:30 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Master cylinder position
Rocketeers,
I'm in the process of mounting the rudder pedals on a HRII and things are
pretty tight. I can make it fit with minimum clearance if the master
cylinders are "piston down". If I move the piston to the top, things are
much better, making me more comfortable. What is the downside of inverting
the master cylinders?
I've hear that bleeding MAY be a problem this way, but I'm not sure.
Russ
Maui
HRII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lee" <leetay(at)idcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Master cylinder position |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Martin
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 4:05 AM
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Master cylinder position
Russ
On this rocket I tried to do the piston down installation. I went to
a lot
of work to modify the pedal so that there was adequate clearance and yet
when I finally got around to mounting it I just was not happy with the room.
I gave up on the idea and mounted the cylinders up. The downside is that you
will probably have to undo the bottom bolt and pull the cylinder up to bleed
it. Once done, you bolt it down and forget it. Both my RV4 and my rocket
had the cylinder up, I now ask myself why I spent any time changing
something that worked OK???
Tom Martin
Bleeding brake cylinders---
Cylinder up or down is much more of an "idealistic" problem than it is
an
actual one, whatever works easiest is the way to go. The cylinders will
work just fine either way.
However, this problem brought back memories of past problems that I had,
referring to actually bleeding the brakes. The "standard" way is to fill
your reservoirs, then pump the brakes, holding the pressure while
simultaneously bleeding pressure from the bleed valve on the brake cylinder,
close the valve, pump the brakes again, then rebleed---until all air is
purged from the line. A rather long, and somewhat complicated procedure
that is totally negated if you allow the reservoir to get low enough that
you accidentally "pump in" some more air. (Don't ask me how I know that!)
A much more efficient way is to use a standard pump-type oil can with a
long, flexible hose that will attach to the bleed valve stem. With the hose
disconnected and the (clean) oil can filled with hydraulic fluid, pump the
can until the hose is completely filled. Then open the brake cylinder bleed
valve about a half-turn, and attach the hose from the oil can. Gently
pumping the oil can will fill the brake cylinder and line from the bottom,
and accomplish line bleeding from a much more effective and easy direction,
(bottom up), also filling your brake reservoir in the process. Of course,
you have the reservoir fill cap removed, to let excess air escape, and this
port is watched to determine when the reservoir is full. When the oil
overflows out of the reservoir, then the system is completely purged, and
the oil reservoir full. Close the purge valve, and disconnect the oil can
hose.
NOW COMES THE HARD-LEARNED LESSON! AT this point there is TOO MUCH oil
in
the system, there is no reservoir air space for any return or release of the
brakes! AND, since you were purging the system via pressure, the brake
cylinders are probably all the way out. What this means is that the brakes
possibly can not fully release, and you will have dragging brakes. (Makes
the plane pure hell to move around by hand! Again, don't ask me how I know
that.)
Very simple solution--depress the brake pedal, and while you hold the
pressure, your partner lightly cracks the bleed valve on the cylinder until
enough brake fluid is drained so that one stroke of approximately 1/2-3/4
pedal travel drain-down is accomplished. Retighten the bleed valve, and
there will now be enough reserve air space in the reservoir to allow the
brakes to fully release. Now reapply the reservoir fill cap, and you are
done.
Lee Taylor
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Russ Werner
Sent: March 31, 2001 4:30 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Master cylinder position
Rocketeers,
I'm in the process of mounting the rudder pedals on a HRII and things are
pretty tight. I can make it fit with minimum clearance if the master
cylinders are "piston down". If I move the piston to the top, things are
much better, making me more comfortable. What is the downside of inverting
the master cylinders?
I've hear that bleeding MAY be a problem this way, but I'm not sure.
Russ
Maui
HRII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Sather" <sather1(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Has anyone used a TSIO 540 in a Rocket yet? And if not, what are the
obstacles to over come.
Bobby
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Airflow Purge Line |
A friend just went through this and Airflow told him he didn't need the
complexity of a duplex valve, but the purge goes INTO the tank supply line,
not the vent. That way, NO fuel can go to the ramp unless the tank is
absolutly full. He was going to put another fitting on the tank access
cover, but they said it wasn't needed. Purge is simple, by selecting the
tank opposite the return line with the pump on and the purge valve open.
Seems clear to me. I wouldn't want it in my vent nor would I want a check
valve in my vent.
Russ
HRII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Airflow Purge Line |
> A friend just went through this and Airflow told him he didn't need the
> complexity of a duplex valve, but the purge goes INTO the tank supply
line,
> not the vent. That way, NO fuel can go to the ramp unless the tank is
> absolutly full. He was going to put another fitting on the tank access
> cover, but they said it wasn't needed. Purge is simple, by selecting the
> tank opposite the return line with the pump on and the purge valve open.
If both tanks are full then this system will put fuel on the ground.
> Seems clear to me. I wouldn't want it in my vent nor would I want a
check
> valve in my vent.
I have the manual from Airflow and it shows the return line going to the
vent. There will be a standard T, no check valve. This system can be
operated when both tanks are full. The vent line has suction from the tank
when purging so no fuel hits the ramp. The hot fuel ends up out in the last
bay while fresh cool fuel is sucked into the delivery system from the first
bay.
Sounds like I will have to make a phone call to Airflow next week.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Airflow Purge Line |
Norman,
I agree. Make a call and let us know what they say. I am amazed that this
stuff hasn't all been hashed out before now! Seems everyone has to learn
the hard way! I'm planning the same install, so I'm very interested in what
you find out.
Russ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Airflow Purge Line |
In a message dated 02-Apr-01 2:39:51 AM Central Daylight Time,
nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes:
<< I have the manual from Airflow and it shows the return line going to the
vent. There will be a standard T, no check valve. This system can be
operated when both tanks are full. The vent line has suction from the tank
when purging so no fuel hits the ramp. The hot fuel ends up out in the last
bay while fresh cool fuel is sucked into the delivery system from the first
bay. >>
Hi Fellas:
I've installed such a system using the vent system as the return, and even
when you select the same tank for purge & return, there is a small amount
dribbled on the ramp. The best setup would be a dedicated fitting on either
tank for the return, but be sure to pull from that same tank when purging.
Installing a second fitting could be as easy as using blind rivets to attach
a drain flange to the root rib -- no disassembly of the tank would be needed.
I question the actual necessity of the system: I can get my ship started in
PHX after a fuel stop in August. No better test, IMHO. Your mileage may
vary....
Cheers!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larry boggan" <laboggan(at)hotmail.com> |
What have most people attached the plexiglass canopy to the tube frame with?
What type rivets? I read where you use slightly oversize holes drilled in
the plexiglass, but then it doesn't seem to make sense to then use pop
rivets....seems they defeat the oversize hole purpose.
How much have most of you had to trim off the plexiglass to make it fit
also?
I can't seem to see what the rear of the canopy should be ..just the
plexglass on the rear hooped tube? Nothing else back there?
Thanks for any help...I know I'm in for some real fun on this part.
Only a grand if I "mess up."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Sather" <sather1(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Airflow Purge Line |
Has anyone installed a TSIO 540 Lycoming or for that matter any TurboCharged
engine in a Rocket? And what obstacles would you have to overcome.
Bobby
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Airflow Purge Line |
In a message dated 4/3/2001 12:03:32 AM Central Daylight Time,
sather1(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
> Has anyone installed a TSIO 540 Lycoming or for that matter any TurboCharged
> engine in a Rocket? And what obstacles would you have to overcome.
> Bobby
>
how could u do to the length and weight of the engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Airflow Purge Line |
In a message dated 4/3/2001 12:03:32 AM Central Daylight Time,
sather1(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
> Has anyone installed a TSIO 540 Lycoming or for that matter any TurboCharged
> engine in a Rocket? And what obstacles would you have to overcome.
> Bobby
>
better option would be the 3 rotor masda engine thats turbo normileed, that
would work, Atkins aviation has 1 that would work, i bleive its 400 hp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K.Janet Asbell" <kj(at)wworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airflow Purge Line |
Lookin the Aicraft Spruce& Spec catalog they have a weight table for LYC
engines.You`d probably have to put a saddle back in front of the fin to drive it.
Once you check on the maint/per flt hour it`ll scare ya. BA #32
CW9371(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/3/2001 12:03:32 AM Central Daylight Time,
> sather1(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
>
> > Has anyone installed a TSIO 540 Lycoming or for that matter any TurboCharged
> > engine in a Rocket? And what obstacles would you have to overcome.
> > Bobby
> >
>
> how could u do to the length and weight of the engine
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Airflow Purge Line |
| From: | "thomas r. jones" <tom144(at)juno.com> |
Has anyone installed a TSIO 540 Lycoming or for that matter any
TurboCharged engine in a Rocket? And what obstacles would you have to
overcome. Bobby
A better option would be the 3 rotor Mazda engine that's turbo
normileed, that would work, Atkins aviation has 1 that would work, I
believe its 400 hp
What about a 350 Chevy engine? They seem to be a proven performer in
several different a/c. Big difference in initial and operational costs.
Tom Jones
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Airflow Purge Line |
Hmmmmm, let me think. A TSIO 540 or a Chevy V8 in a Rocket.....
I don't know. I definately don't want to be underpowered, so I am thinking
about a Dodge Viper V10 with 4 turbo's. Output about 850 HP, estimated speed
of the Rocket to be over 450 KTS, or Mach .4. To cope with the flutter I
bought some duct tape (it comes in large sizes called "industry package")
Is there anyone out there who has experience with a Pratt & Whitney JT6D on a
Rocket. Heard that you can reach Mach .8 with that one......
Be careful guys.... too much power and too much weight could kill you. Keep
it within the recommendations of the Harmon Rocket and F1 Rocket guys. They
are the experts.........
/Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Airflow Purge Line |
In a message dated 4/3/2001 10:25:31 AM Central Daylight Time,
tom144(at)juno.com writes:
> What about a 350 Chevy engine? They seem to be a proven performer in
> several different a/c. Big difference in initial and operational costs.
>
> Tom Jones
>
>
weight would be an issue witht he 350 chevy from what i have seen, mazda 3
rotor weights almost the same as a io-540
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Hall <tkhall(at)highland.net> |
| Subject: | Airflow Purge Line |
The primary source of slowdown inherent in the Rockets ( and all RV's) is
the drag. Look at the wings and gear. To make a go faster a/c, one needs to
look at another, thinner airfoil and retractable gear. At that point, a
turbine or turbo ( or blower) might make sense. Naturally, we are actually
building a completely different a/c and it might lose some of its other
endearing characteristics, like good slow speed handling and short field
capacity, but we all make choices. If a go fast bullet is the strong desire,
you might check out the Nemesis NXT kits. They are due out this summer and
use TCM TSIO-550. Their projected speeds are 350 MPH sealevel and 400 MPH at
20K.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Airflow Purge Line
Hmmmmm, let me think. A TSIO 540 or a Chevy V8 in a Rocket.....
I don't know. I definately don't want to be underpowered, so I am thinking
about a Dodge Viper V10 with 4 turbo's. Output about 850 HP, estimated speed
of the Rocket to be over 450 KTS, or Mach .4. To cope with the flutter I
bought some duct tape (it comes in large sizes called "industry package")
Is there anyone out there who has experience with a Pratt & Whitney JT6D on
a
Rocket. Heard that you can reach Mach .8 with that one......
Be careful guys.... too much power and too much weight could kill you. Keep
it within the recommendations of the Harmon Rocket and F1 Rocket guys. They
are the experts.........
/Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Airflow Purge Line |
Another option would be to order a kit for a F16. I've noted that they are
only $ 35 million a piece, but boy, they climb at 10K/feet a minute at 400
kts.......
Way better then a Rocket or any RV.
/Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Sather" <sather1(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com |
CW, Not sure as I am just getting ready for my kit and have a TSIO lyc
available. By lengthening the moment aft and adding weight there. The
weight would be less than the difference in the IO 540. Does that make sense
and do you think it would work. Not going to be any faster until you get to
altitude, but should make a difference up in the thin air. Appreciate your
comments.
Thanks Bobby
----- Original Message -----
From: <CW9371(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Airflow Purge Line
>
> In a message dated 4/3/2001 12:03:32 AM Central Daylight Time,
> sather1(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
>
>
> > Has anyone installed a TSIO 540 Lycoming or for that matter any
TurboCharged
> > engine in a Rocket? And what obstacles would you have to overcome.
> > Bobby
> >
>
> how could u do to the length and weight of the engine
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 4/3/2001 8:25:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
sather1(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
> CW, Not sure as I am just getting ready for my kit and have a TSIO lyc
> available. By lengthening the moment aft and adding weight there. The
> weight would be less than the difference in the IO 540. Does that make sense
> and do you think it would work. Not going to be any faster until you get to
> altitude, but should make a difference up in the thin air. Appreciate your
> comments.
> Thanks Bobby
talk to mark, but the length of the tsio means the weight it much farther out
on he nose and you would have to add a lot of weight to the tail.
If you really want a turbo engine, the turbonormalized mazda 3 rotorengine
woulld be the way to go.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Sather" <sather1(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com |
Has anyone used this mazda engine yet and where would I get information on
it. Also, looks like unless I can use it I will have a TSIO Lyc for sale.
Thanks so much for your help.
Bobby
----- Original Message -----
From: <CW9371(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com
>
> In a message dated 4/3/2001 8:25:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
> sather1(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
>
>
> > CW, Not sure as I am just getting ready for my kit and have a TSIO lyc
> > available. By lengthening the moment aft and adding weight there. The
> > weight would be less than the difference in the IO 540. Does that make
sense
> > and do you think it would work. Not going to be any faster until you get
to
> > altitude, but should make a difference up in the thin air. Appreciate
your
> > comments.
> > Thanks Bobby
>
> talk to mark, but the length of the tsio means the weight it much farther
out
> on he nose and you would have to add a lot of weight to the tail.
> If you really want a turbo engine, the turbonormalized mazda 3 rotorengine
> woulld be the way to go.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com |
| From: | "thomas r. jones" <tom144(at)juno.com> |
"Robert Sather" Has anyone used this mazda
engine yet and where would I get information on it. Also, looks like
unless I can use it I will have a TSIO Lyc for sale. Thanks Bobby
Put an aluminum Brodix Chevy in it like Tom Z did in his Lancair P4 and
go 400mph! Reno to Las Vegas in 62 minutes & Las Vegas to Williams AFB,
Phoenix, Arizona in 48 minutes!
Tom Jones
Las Vegas, NV
Tuesday 9:52pm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com |
Bobby,
I'm surprised Harry Paine hasn't chimed in here. I believe he converted a
TSIO to an IO. I'd check with an engine shop and see what it would take.
Russ
cc Harry Paine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Sather" <sather1(at)worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com
>
> Has anyone used this mazda engine yet and where would I get information on
> it. Also, looks like unless I can use it I will have a TSIO Lyc for sale.
> Thanks so much for your help.
> Bobby
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CW9371(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 9:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 4/3/2001 8:25:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > sather1(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
> >
> >
> > > CW, Not sure as I am just getting ready for my kit and have a TSIO lyc
> > > available. By lengthening the moment aft and adding weight there. The
> > > weight would be less than the difference in the IO 540. Does that make
> sense
> > > and do you think it would work. Not going to be any faster until you
get
> to
> > > altitude, but should make a difference up in the thin air. Appreciate
> your
> > > comments.
> > > Thanks Bobby
> >
> > talk to mark, but the length of the tsio means the weight it much
farther
> out
> > on he nose and you would have to add a lot of weight to the tail.
> > If you really want a turbo engine, the turbonormalized mazda 3
rotorengine
> > woulld be the way to go.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com |
| From: | KAOS <kaos(at)captainkaos.com> |
On 4/4/01 2:17 PM, "CW9371(at)aol.com" wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/3/2001 8:25:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
> sather1(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
>
>
>> CW, Not sure as I am just getting ready for my kit and have a TSIO lyc
>> available. By lengthening the moment aft and adding weight there. The
>> weight would be less than the difference in the IO 540. Does that make sense
>> and do you think it would work. Not going to be any faster until you get to
>> altitude, but should make a difference up in the thin air. Appreciate your
>> comments.
>> Thanks Bobby
>
> talk to mark, but the length of the tsio means the weight it much farther out
> on he nose and you would have to add a lot of weight to the tail.
> If you really want a turbo engine, the turbonormalized mazda 3 rotorengine
> woulld be the way to go.
You all aint getting the big picture
That is why the call it a car engine
It aint made to work in a plane
If you gunna spend this much on a kit
Go sit with a good engineer and he will explain why
As it would take to long here
If in doubt come to Oshkosh and I can introduce you to a guy that can
explain it
Captain kaos
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Airflow Purge Line |
In a message dated 03-Apr-01 7:18:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com writes:
<< Another option would be to order a kit for a F16. I've noted that they are
only $ 35 million a piece >>
Geez - I hope that's the QB version....!
You guys crack me up!
Cheers
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hr2pilot(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com |
Take the turbo off and use the -540
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Sather" <sather1(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com |
Short, Simple, Easy, Sell the turbo and it will pay for some of the panel..
Thats John for you.
Thanks
John
----- Original Message -----
From: <Hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com
>
> Take the turbo off and use the -540
> John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 4/4/2001 4:20:00 AM Central Daylight Time,
kaos(at)captainkaos.com writes:
> You all aint getting the big picture
> That is why the call it a car engine
> It aint made to work in a plane
> If you gunna spend this much on a kit
> Go sit with a good engineer and he will explain why
> As it would take to long here
> If in doubt come to Oshkosh and I can introduce you to a guy that can
> explain it
>
> Captain kaos
jeez, kaos, i will get an enginer to show you how the mazda will work in a
plane and work great. I cant help it i want an engine that is modern in my
aircraft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com |
Try this site and let their engineers explain how an auto engine CAN work in
your airplane. http://www.powersportaviation.com/
> Has anyone used this mazda engine yet and where would I get information on
> it. Also, looks like unless I can use it I will have a TSIO Lyc for sale.
> Thanks so much for your help.
> Bobby
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CW9371(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 9:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 4/3/2001 8:25:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > sather1(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
> >
> >
> > > CW, Not sure as I am just getting ready for my kit and have a TSIO lyc
> > > available. By lengthening the moment aft and adding weight there. The
> > > weight would be less than the difference in the IO 540. Does that make
> sense
> > > and do you think it would work. Not going to be any faster until you
get
> to
> > > altitude, but should make a difference up in the thin air. Appreciate
> your
> > > comments.
> > > Thanks Bobby
> >
> > talk to mark, but the length of the tsio means the weight it much
farther
> out
> > on he nose and you would have to add a lot of weight to the tail.
> > If you really want a turbo engine, the turbonormalized mazda 3
rotorengine
> > woulld be the way to go.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 4/4/2001 11:26:18 AM Central Daylight Time,
mnellis(at)peoplepc.com writes:
> Try this site and let their engineers explain how an auto engine CAN work in
> your airplane. http://www.powersportaviation.com/
>
> > Has anyone used this mazda engine yet and where would I get information on
> > it. Also, looks like unless I can use it I will have a TSIO Lyc for sale.
> > Thanks so much for your help.
> > Bobby
Also check out this months kit plane magazine, They have an article an
atkins avaition which makes the 3 rotor turbo engine for aircraft. The
powersport poeple talked to mark from team rocket and the Petr the chech
enginer for the company that builds the kit for team rocket. It all looked
good.
chris wilcox F1 kit 000
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 4/3/2001 11:57:26 PM Central Daylight Time,
tom144(at)juno.com writes:
> engine yet and where would I get information on it. Also, looks like
> unless I can use it I will have a TSIO Lyc for sale. Thanks Bobby
>
> Put an aluminum Brodix Chevy in it like Tom Z did in his Lancair P4 and
> go 400mph! Reno to Las Vegas in 62 minutes & Las Vegas to Williams AFB,
> Phoenix, Arizona in 48 minutes!
>
> Tom Jones
the chevy v8 is to heavy for a rocket. You have to remember the lancair IVP
use a TSIO550 which is over 100 lbs heavier then a IO-540.
Atkins Avation has the 3 rotor turbo flying. THere in this month kit planes.
Big article about them. Also power sport aviation is working on a 3 rotor.
For reduction gears you want to use powersport avation. 6500 bucks
atkins 3 rotor turbo engine is about 15 or 16000
www.adkinsrotary.com
chris wilcox
f1 kit 000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lee" <leetay(at)idcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
CW9371(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com
In a message dated 4/3/2001 11:57:26 PM Central Daylight Time,
tom144(at)juno.com writes:
> engine yet and where would I get information on it. Also, looks like
> unless I can use it I will have a TSIO Lyc for sale. Thanks Bobby
>
> Put an aluminum Brodix Chevy in it like Tom Z did in his Lancair P4 and
> go 400mph! Reno to Las Vegas in 62 minutes & Las Vegas to Williams AFB,
> Phoenix, Arizona in 48 minutes!
>
> Tom Jones
the chevy v8 is to heavy for a rocket. You have to remember the lancair IVP
use a TSIO550 which is over 100 lbs heavier then a IO-540.
Atkins Avation has the 3 rotor turbo flying. THere in this month kit
planes.
Big article about them. Also power sport aviation is working on a 3 rotor.
For reduction gears you want to use powersport avation. 6500 bucks
atkins 3 rotor turbo engine is about 15 or 16000
www.adkinsrotary.com
Atkins Rotary website is available at www.atkinsrotary.com (error in
spelling)
chris wilcox
f1 kit 000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
Rocketeers,
Those of you in the know, here's one for you.
Mattituck has videos describing overhaul on several of the Lyc 4 cylinder
engines. Anyone know which one (O320, 360, IO360) is the closest to the
C4B5 IO540 that we are using in the Rockets? I'm not looking to rebuild one
myself, just want to get more up to speed on where I'm heading.
Aloha a hui ho aku,
Russ
HRII
Maui
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
> Rocketeers,
>
> Those of you in the know, here's one for you.
>
> Mattituck has videos describing overhaul on several of the Lyc 4 cylinder
> engines. Anyone know which one (O320, 360, IO360) is the closest to the
> C4B5 IO540 that we are using in the Rockets? I'm not looking to rebuild
one
> myself, just want to get more up to speed on where I'm heading.
>
> Aloha a hui ho aku,
>
> Russ
> HRII
> Maui
Russ,
In essence, any one will help.
If you are capable or rebuilding a lawnmower engine, no problem.
This is especially true if you were to overhaul to factory specs,
and are not seeking more power. I have done many to those specs,
(boring), and I send nothing out, everything is done in house.
The manual for direct drive Lycomings takes you through
step-by-step, and all you need are accurate measuring tools.
Just research the applicable AD's, and you will find that
these engine tolerances are quite liberal in comparison to
automotive racing engines. If you are planning on utilizing
magnetos, you might ask for some help in overhauling them
if you have not done it before, although it is not difficult, just
time consuming the first time. If you are not aligned with a
precision shop, you may farm some of the machine work and
inspections out. One clue to a shop that may perform
precision work, is one that does not lap valves in.
This is completely unnecessary with precision equipment.
Archie
Archie's Racing Service
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com |
As usual, wise words, Archie.
/Hans Altena
Cary, North Carolina
(919) 412 6221
Sitting on the fence with my $$$
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LKDAUDT2(at)aol.com |
Larry... Youre right, the canopy is a real bitch.. Rule 1... Dont even begin
to cut if the temp is below 75 degrees F. When you start to cut the canopy
only remove about an inch at a time. When it sets own on the frame totally
you can mark and cut the windscreen for the slider. I used the plexi type
#30 drill to make the first holes
in the plexi and then went through (very carefully) into the frame. I then
marked the skirts with a hole finder and drilled the skirt holes. I then went
back and enlarged the plexi holes to 1/4 inch. I then redrilled the frame
holes and tapped them to accept a #6 screw. I then filled the plexi holes
with ATV. This will ultimatly allow for expansion and contradtion. I will
redrill the ATV and tap the frame and then attach it all together with #6
screws..
Hope this helps..
I used the 2 and !/4 inch cutter on my 1/4 inch drill to cut the plexi. (very
carefully)
Good Luck Larry #001
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tsio Lyc 540 CW9371(at)aol.com |
| From: | KAOS <kaos(at)captainkaos.com> |
On 4/4/01 11:15 PM, "Hr2pilot(at)aol.com" wrote:
>
> Take the turbo off and use the -540
> John
And thats from the man that invented the hr2
Good comment john
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harry Paine <hpaine(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | turbo 540 conversion |
Okay Ive sat on the sidelines for a while on the turbo engine situation.
First of all forget automotive in aircraft. I'll give anybody $1,000.00
cash if they can prove to me with proper
documentation that a reworked automotive engine of 250 hp or more has run
to 1,000 HRS with out blowing up!!!! most don't even make it to 200!!!!
now then no more crap about automotive in a rocket okay!!
By the way Curtiss Wright spent over 50 million back in the sixtys trying
to make the wankel rotary work in aircraft, and it probably would have been
more fun BBQ those $$$$ for Tri tip!!
Okay My motor started out as a C1ATIO540 out of an aztec. heres what you
need to do:
1. take off 50lbs of turbo dead weight yes 50lbs I weighted it!
2. Remove rear case and put on one that accepts plunger type fuel pump. (
geared pump with oil scavenger, will not fit.
3. replace fuel injector spider with normally aspirated spider.
4. put in higher compression pistons, your choice 8:1 clear up to 11:1 (not
reccomend for 200 hr TBO!)
I have H2AD pistons ceramic coated.
The turbo motor is a little heavier but has some advantages such as oil
splashing bottom of piston from
different crank than non turbo motor,
Harry Paine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Sather" <sather1(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: turbo 540 conversion |
John and Harry make a lot of sense.
----- Original Message -----
From: Harry Paine <hpaine(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:45 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: turbo 540 conversion
>
> Okay Ive sat on the sidelines for a while on the turbo engine situation.
> First of all forget automotive in aircraft. I'll give anybody $1,000.00
> cash if they can prove to me with proper
> documentation that a reworked automotive engine of 250 hp or more has run
> to 1,000 HRS with out blowing up!!!! most don't even make it to 200!!!!
> now then no more crap about automotive in a rocket okay!!
> By the way Curtiss Wright spent over 50 million back in the sixtys trying
> to make the wankel rotary work in aircraft, and it probably would have
been
> more fun BBQ those $$$$ for Tri tip!!
>
> Okay My motor started out as a C1ATIO540 out of an aztec. heres what you
> need to do:
> 1. take off 50lbs of turbo dead weight yes 50lbs I weighted it!
> 2. Remove rear case and put on one that accepts plunger type fuel pump.
> geared pump with oil scavenger, will not fit.
> 3. replace fuel injector spider with normally aspirated spider.
> 4. put in higher compression pistons, your choice 8:1 clear up to 11:1
(not
> reccomend for 200 hr TBO!)
> I have H2AD pistons ceramic coated.
>
> The turbo motor is a little heavier but has some advantages such as oil
> splashing bottom of piston from
> different crank than non turbo motor,
> Harry Paine
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ghrhodes" <ghrhodes(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Assorted Procedures |
Clear DayF1 builders:
I have a few items of possible interest. I apologize for the late post,
vacation, MD11 instructor upgrade, and painting the cockpit have been
busy.
I have discovered a great HVLP gravity feed primer gun at Harbor Freight
here is the link:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber43430
Go down to your paint supplier and order a Devilbiss paint liner
conversion kit part number OMX-7--K48. It is a kit to line your cup in a
gravity feed gun with a liner (plastic bag) to speed clean up and allow
upside down spraying of paint. It has changed my painting in both my
Devilbiss Finishline gun for final coats and Harbor Freight primer gun.
All the tubular pieces from the cockpit are back from the powder coat
guy here in Memphis and they are drop dead pretty. Almost the same color
as the motor mount only a little less white pigment. Here is the way to
contact him:
David Meek
8480 Old Brownsville Road
Arlington, TN 38002
(901)377-0145
He does thermal barrier coatings, dry film coatings, thermal
dispersants, and corrosion & chemical inhibiting coatings. Your paint
dealer can computer match a sample he shoots and cures in the oven for
your spray painting final colors. I believe the control mount support in
question in an earlier email to the F1 forum was wondering "what paint
is that?" it wasn't paint guys it was powder coat.
I have put together some final procedures for me on the canopy (check
w/Mark if you don't like 'em). Here they are:
Windshield bow
1 Drill initial holes to 40
1A Prime, paint or powder coat
2 Remove plexi, drill bow to 36, tap 6-32
3 Drill plexi to 5/16
4 countersink windshield plexi hole for washers
5 secure with #6 screws
Front Slider Hoop
1 Drill initial holes to 40 GO SLOW USE LIGHT PRESSURE SLOW BIT SPEED ON
PLEXI TO NOT CHIP
2 Drill plexi and hoop together to 30
3 countersink the plexi while at the 30 hole size
4 drill the plexi and hoop together with a #1 unibit to the 2nd stop on
the bit in the plexi
4A Prime, paint or powder coat
5 Rivet AACQ 4-3
Rear Slider Hoop
1 Drill initial holes to 40
2 drill to 30 with rear skirts on
3 remove skirts countersink plexi at #30 hole size
4 dimple sheetmetal skirts with 30 dimple
5 skirts off, #1 unibit to 2nd step in plexi and hoop
5A Prime, paint or powder coat
6 rivet AACQ 4-4
UHMW strip both transverse (front to rear)
1 drill all initial holes to 40
2 set uhmw strip aside keep it at 40
3 drill plexi and skirt to 27
4 remove skirt dimple with # 6 dimple
5 countersink plexi at #6
6 enlarge plexi only to 3rd step on #1 unibit (3/16)
6A Prime, paint or powder coat
7 number ??? screws I think 6 is correct, must check
Inner transverse tube
1 drill all initial holes to 40
2 drill to 30
2A Prime, paint or powder coat
3 rivet LP4-3
Outer Transverse tube
1 drill all initial holes 40
1A Prime, paint or powder coat
2 #40 machine countersink
3 drill to #34
4 rivet MK319BS
All Plain rivets on side skirts
1 drill all initial holes to 40
2 dimple at 40
2A Prime, paint or powder coat
3 rivet AN426 AD3-3.5
Please q-c this guys and I will honestly try to get some photos
together.
Regards
Howard Rhodes
ghrhodes(at)midsouth.rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hr2pilot(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Assorted Procedures |
That don't sound much like a QB kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Sather" <sather1(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Assorted Procedures |
Not a valid number on the web site either
----- Original Message -----
From: <Hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Fw: Assorted Procedures
>
> That don't sound much like a QB kit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hr2pilot(at)aol.com |
Thank you?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Hall <tkhall(at)highland.net> |
| Subject: | Canopy frame measurements |
Rocket-List
Fellow builders,
I seem to be having some fitting and bending difficulties
with the canopy frame. Any of you that have passed this point could help if
you could send me the distance from top center of the fwd canopy slider bow
to the top center of aft canopy slider bow. This will help me approximate
how much I may need to change angle of rear bow.
Thanks,
Tom #15
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nelson James Maj P42/Site 2 <James.Nelson(at)edwards.af.mil> |
Rocket-List
| Subject: | RE: Canopy frame measurements |
I know what your going through. I spent 2 weeks tweaking the frame to make
it "fit" better, and when I was done I'm not sure it was that much different
from what I started with. Then when the Acrylic was added the shape changed
again, requiring more tweaking. I eventually got it working really nice.
I used a 4 foot long piece of wire, to simulate the hoops, to help figure
out where to bend, to change the shape in the direction I was trying to go.
I found that a bend at point x, often resulted in unwanted and unexpected
results at point y but the wire trick helped me visualize where I needed to
make a bend.
Greg Nelson F-1 #8
[Nelson James Maj P42/Site 2-QA] -----Original Message-----
From: Tom Hall [mailto:tkhall(at)highland.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 5:26 PM
Subject: Canopy frame measurements
Fellow builders,
I seem to be having some fitting and bending difficulties
with the canopy frame. Any of you that have passed this point could help if
you could send me the distance from top center of the fwd canopy slider bow
to the top center of aft canopy slider bow. This will help me approximate
how much I may need to change angle of rear bow.
Thanks,
Tom #15
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ClearProp1(at)aol.com |
Hey Rocket builders,
I am building an F-1, and am trying to locate the static ports. Either it is
staring me in the face and I can''t see it, or I cannot find it in the plans.
Does anyone know what the measurements are to locate the static ports?
Cheers!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Hall <tkhall(at)highland.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Canopy frame measurements |
Well, I am finding the same thing. Mark assures me that the tubing should
only bend at the fulcrum. Someone needs to tell the tubing that! It would
seem that if Vans can duplicate the windshield bow with the fwd canopy frame
on the -8, then it can be done better than is being currently supplied. I
cannot rationalize making it "sort of" fit and then filling with spacers and
such. I have to see that every time I get in or open canopy. Currently it
appears to me that cutting off fwd bow and trying to fabricate a better
fitting one, then reattaching is probably the only alternative. I have had 4
different metal experts (i.e. machinists, welders, sheet metal fabricators,
and A&P) and they all feel that this is probably the only way to
satisfactorily fit the fwd parts.
Also, if any of you could measure the distance between the canopy bows, that
would help me to determine if I need to extend my rear catch pins or if
possibly bending aft bow will suffice to make them contact the catches.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Nelson James Maj
P42/Site 2
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 11:15 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: RE: Canopy frame measurements
I know what your going through. I spent 2 weeks tweaking the frame to make
it "fit" better, and when I was done I'm not sure it was that much different
from what I started with. Then when the Acrylic was added the shape changed
again, requiring more tweaking. I eventually got it working really nice.
I used a 4 foot long piece of wire, to simulate the hoops, to help figure
out where to bend, to change the shape in the direction I was trying to go.
I found that a bend at point x, often resulted in unwanted and unexpected
results at point y but the wire trick helped me visualize where I needed to
make a bend.
Greg Nelson F-1 #8
[Nelson James Maj P42/Site 2-QA] -----Original Message-----
From: Tom Hall [mailto:tkhall(at)highland.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 5:26 PM
Subject: Canopy frame measurements
Fellow builders,
I seem to be having some fitting and bending difficulties
with the canopy frame. Any of you that have passed this point could help if
you could send me the distance from top center of the fwd canopy slider bow
to the top center of aft canopy slider bow. This will help me approximate
how much I may need to change angle of rear bow.
Thanks,
Tom #15
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LKDAUDT2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Static Ports |
I put mine about 3 inches aft of the #8 bulkhead and about 3 inches below the
main stringer. One on each side. Next time I will go forward of the #8
bulkhead. Easier to plumb from the inside.
Good Luck....Larry #001
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hr2pilot(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Canopy frame measurements |
You might do what some other F1 builders are doing and use the tilt over.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Canopy frame measurements |
In a message dated 4/12/2001 8:28:21 PM Central Daylight Time,
Hr2pilot(at)aol.com writes:
> You might do what some other F1 builders are doing and use the tilt over.
> John
>
why would you put a tilt over on a f1, it doesnt look as sexy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hr2pilot(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Canopy frame measurements |
I expected that!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Canopy frame measurements |
In a message dated 4/12/2001 9:02:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
Hr2pilot(at)aol.com writes:
> I expected that!
That don't sound much like a QB kit,
Least I stated why i liked the slider instead of the tilt over. Instead of
making smart ass no class comments like this one
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Canopy frame measurements |
In a message dated 4/12/2001 9:03:02 PM Central Daylight Time,
jhstarn(at)earthlink.net writes:
> Have you ever tried to get into and out of an F1, Oh, I forgot there are
> only two F1's flying. You could try on an HRII for size I believe there are
> 70 or so completed and flying.
70 Harmons completed and flying I though there were like 54 or so.
Anyways this shit is getting old. I know I have been part of the problem.
There both good planes. So lets quit this shit, casue all it does is make
everyone look stupid and if if really was a perfect world the Harmon and the
F1 would be produced by the same company and it would be great. However
there not so lets all live with it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Canopy frame measurements |
In a message dated 12-Apr-01 8:28:21 PM Central Daylight Time,
Hr2pilot(at)aol.com writes:
<< You might do what some other F1 builders are doing and use the tilt over.
John >>
Hi John:
Not a bad idea! Seems thus far, 6-8 F1 builders think the same way. I'll bet
there's more too. After all, it is labeled "experimental".
Now, those fellas could refer to the HR2 assembly manual, but none can find
the damn thing, except what was written by Harry Paine and I in the spirit of
homebuilder co-operation. We were trying to help other HR2 builders, but this
was quite a while back. Could be you've forgotten.....might be an archive
search of Russ Werners' web site would help.
If those fellas want a flopper, be assured they know about it, and they will
build one if desired. Jim Winings will have an F1-specific frame in
production soon.
No regrets from me, if they use an adaption of Van's design for the RV-4.
However, I will suggest they also include a roll over bar in their
modifications, something left out of the HR2, but included in my slider
design. We can (and should) all learn from a certain Sea Fury accident
involving Charlie Hillard at Lakeland a while back.
Cheers
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com> |
<"I believe there are
<70 or so completed and flying."
Hi Folks,
Is there any kind of Rocket network in existence? The RV's have Van's Air
Force, the Hatz builders have the Hatz Association. Is there anything
along those lines for Rocket enthusiasts? Any national or regional Rocket
fly-ins? It has been my experience that, no matter what type aircraft, you
have a lot more fun when you can get together with others of the same type.
Tim
Pittsburgh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Social stuff |
> Is there any kind of Rocket network in existence? The RV's have Van's Air
> Force, the Hatz builders have the Hatz Association. Is there anything
> along those lines for Rocket enthusiasts? Any national or regional Rocket
> fly-ins? It has been my experience that, no matter what type aircraft,
you
> have a lot more fun when you can get together with others of the same
type.
Just follow the RV crowd. They are the largest group of homebuilders ever.
Rockets are welcome and most times are mixed right in. Many RV builders will
build a rocket next. Rocket builders who want a four seater will almost
surely be building the RV-10 when it comes out next year. We are all the
same community.
Norman Hunger
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Social stuff |
In a message dated 4/13/2001 12:14:36 PM Central Daylight Time,
nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes:
> Just follow the RV crowd. They are the largest group of homebuilders ever.
> Rockets are welcome and most times are mixed right in. Many RV builders will
> build a rocket next. Rocket builders who want a four seater will almost
> surely be building the RV-10 when it comes out next year. We are all the
> same community.
>
> Norman Hunger
I agree with the first part as for the most part us rocket builders and
owners get a long great with the RV crowd, probably get along better with
them then we do among ourselves with the F1 Harmon debates.
However I dont know if a RV 10 would be my plane of choice for a 4 seater. I
think my plane of choice for a 4 seater if only i could afford it would be a
Lancair IVP. Seriously the RV 10 probably would be the plane of choice casue
were familair with the RV and rocket series of planes.
Hey Mark, you need to make a F4 rocket which is a 4 seater with a turbine
engine. Yeaaaaaa thats the ticket. lol
chris wilcox F1 rocket builder kit 0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "thomas r. jones" <tom144(at)juno.com> |
Seriously the RV 10 plane of choice F4 rocket which is a 4 seater with
a turbine engine..............
This sounds like the perfect plane for a Chevy V8, yes it's light
enough.......
Tom
RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Social stuff |
> Hey Mark, you need to make a F4 rocket which is a 4 seater with a turbine
> engine. Yeaaaaaa thats the ticket. lol
Hey Mark, I second the notion........Norman........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Canopy frame measurements |
In a message dated 4/12/01 6:41:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, CW9371(at)aol.com
writes:
>
>
> why would you put a tilt over on a f1, it doesnt look as sexy.
>
> Now would that not be sexy with the canopy open or closed ? your confusing
> us.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
This is Lee Behel with a suggestion about how to let out some of the
rhetoric about F-1 Rockets vs. Harmon Rockets if I understand the issue
correctly. Come duel it out on the pylon course at Reno!
This year at the Reno Air Races, we are encouraging new participants. All
that is necessary is a "kit" airplane that can turn a 200 mph lap speed on
the 6 mile pylon course and enough formation experience to join up and stay
in formation for the start.
It is a great way to attract attention to your airplanes in addition to have
a great time. We will offer a trophy for the fastest airplane of its
particular type, so it is not necessary to directly challenge Lancair in
order to come home a winner.
The races are in September, but there is a pylon school that is necessary
for first time racers, which is conducted the weekend of June 22. More
information can be obtained at http://www.sportclass.com.
Consider this an invitation to all of the Rocket guys. We would love to
have you participate. Please e-mail me with any questions or comments.
Lee Behel
President
Sport Class Air Racing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Canopy frame measurements |
In a message dated 4/13/2001 2:12:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com writes:
> >
> >
> > why would you put a tilt over on a f1, it doesnt look as sexy.
> >
> > Now would that not be sexy with the canopy open or closed ? your
> confusing
> > us.
> >
>
I can see it doesnt take much to confuse you
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Canopy frame measurements |
In a message dated 4/13/01 12:22:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, CW9371(at)aol.com
writes:
> CW9371(at)aol.com
> > > I can see it doesnt take much to confuse you
>
> Now don't get personal, I was just saying in a nice way "you don't make
> know sense" just answer the question open or closed.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SixShooters1(at)aol.com |
Listers,
I have an F-1 Rocket that is for sale. I am interested in building it for
someone. I currently have another one in my shop currently being built and
would like to build this one along with it. If you have any interest, please
respond off-line.
Thanks!
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Canopy frame measurements |
In a message dated 4/13/2001 2:46:58 PM Central Daylight Time,
MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com writes:
>
> In a message dated 4/13/01 12:22:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> CW9371(at)aol.com
> writes:
>
>
> > CW9371(at)aol.com
> > > > I can see it doesnt take much to confuse you
> >
> > Now don't get personal, I was just saying in a nice way "you don't make
> > know sense" just answer the question open or closed.
> >
>
>
I wasnt getting personal. Open or closed i personally think the slider looks
better.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KAOS <kaos(at)captainkaos.com> |
>> why would you put a tilt over on a f1, it doesnt look as sexy.
Hate to go with the other side but kaos prefers tilt
And it is horny
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tilt or slide |
In a message dated 4/14/2001 11:59:48 PM Central Daylight Time,
kaos(at)captainkaos.com writes:
> Hate to go with the other side but kaos prefers tilt
> And it is horny
>
You but your an australia you do everything backwards
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KAOS <kaos(at)captainkaos.com> |
Hi guys if I can call you that
I've just been at an air show in southern australia (Mangalore)
There where 200 kit air planes
Most of them rv series
At lunch there where 3 rv4 builders 1 hr2 builder an f1 builder an a rv8
builder
All got a long great , We all hang out together Saturday afternoon
Sucked back some beers (which we do here on regular interval's )
But no one was bitchen (that is whining for those who don=B9t speak
Australian)
I got back today from this air show (Sunday) and got 37 emails
I answered one of them and started reading the rest
30 where whining people on who ,was ,it ,there or mine was the best
Come on guys we are all here for the one thing
To go flying
Between both camps there is little difference lets all try and get along
From top to bottom
Im am not saying that I in the past have had not joined in but it is getting
long in the tooth
Its the old chev , ford thing, no one wins its who's got the most money who
goes fastest ,highest
Ask Bruce bohannon how much it costs
And he done it in an rv4 shows both up
Of course I will upset some ,may be all and being an aussie I don=B9t care
remember we nearly got the first one flying, not to take any thing from
jimmy cash As he did a great job
I have attached a photo which I know I should not do
When you are flying a beautiful plane like this then you can bitch
But may be you would help others like this guy does
He goes out of his way to help any one
No matter what u fly
Captain kaos
ps
Energy is only useful if put in the right direction
Blowing it out the rear end only give you pain ????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harry Paine <hpaine(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Automotive engine bet/offer expiration |
Two week have passed since I made the statement About automotive engines of
250 HP or more in aircraft, the silence was deafeaning!
The offer has now expired!
Harry Paine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Automotive engine bet/offer expiration |
Subject: Rocket-List: Automotive engine bet/offer expiration
>
> Two week have passed since I made the statement About automotive engines
of
> 250 HP or more in aircraft, the silence was deafeaning!
> The offer has now expired!
>
> Harry Paine
Hi Harry,
Was not aware of your offer, but the only automobile engine of 250 HP or
more in aircraft that I am aware of is a turbocharged 13B Mazda Rotary in a
Velocity. We had 4 rotary powered RVs at Sun & Fun using 13Bs (two rotors).
Several folks are putting 20Bs (three rotors) capable of 250-300 HP into
RV-8s as well as other types of aircraft. The rotary powered aircraft with
the most flying time is an RV-4 with over 1000 hours behind a rotary engine.
FWIW
Ed Anderson
RV-6A Rotary Powered
90 Hours flying time
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Automotive engine bet/offer expiration |
In a message dated 4/15/2001 11:49:10 AM Central Daylight Time,
hpaine(at)earthlink.net writes:
> Two week have passed since I made the statement About automotive engines of
> 250 HP or more in aircraft, the silence was deafeaning!
> The offer has now expired!
>
> Harry Paine
>
>
No obvious u know it all, and no one wanted to argue with you.
chris wilcox
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dallas Benham" <dlbenham(at)smithville.net> |
| Subject: | Re: list bickers |
Vince:
Well said, and I agree with you 100%!!! I believe Matt should be more enforcing
of his rules of
behavior.
Dallas Benham
398DB HRII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bryan Pender <pender(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: list bickers |
Thanks Vince.. dittos. Anyone else out there with children using their
"family" computers? Sure hope I don't have to sensor this sight/list.
BP
________________________________________________________________________________
I, after remaining silent for 4 months also feel the need of throwing my
2 cents in. I feel like Dallas and Vince. After reading the trashy, 12 year
old mentality of Chris Wilcox's retort, I have heard enough. Please let John
build his kits, Mark sell his kits, people build sliders, fliptops, or
anything else they feel like building. I really don't think anyone cares
whether we like or approve of it or not. If you feel the need to toss your
personal comments in, do it direct and not for all of us that neither care
nor want to hear this crap. There's always got to be a few. Matt please print
the mission statement yet another time so the 12 year olds might understand
this is not the place for this. Tell them to write "Dear Abbey" or National
Inquirer, but please let this be the spot for grownups to exchange quality,
neat, constructive builder/operator stuff. TT in Indy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "FRED WEAVER" <Mytyweav(at)flash.net> |
Thank you so much.............
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: <HR69GT(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 10:14 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Carping
>
> I, after remaining silent for 4 months also feel the need of throwing
my
> 2 cents in. I feel like Dallas and Vince. After reading the trashy, 12
year
> old mentality of Chris Wilcox's retort, I have heard enough. Please let
John
> build his kits, Mark sell his kits, people build sliders, fliptops, or
> anything else they feel like building. I really don't think anyone cares
> whether we like or approve of it or not. If you feel the need to toss your
> personal comments in, do it direct and not for all of us that neither care
> nor want to hear this crap. There's always got to be a few. Matt please
print
> the mission statement yet another time so the 12 year olds might
understand
> this is not the place for this. Tell them to write "Dear Abbey" or
National
> Inquirer, but please let this be the spot for grownups to exchange
quality,
> neat, constructive builder/operator stuff. TT in Indy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LKDAUDT2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: list bickers |
I agree with Vince..Come on guys... Grow up!!
Larry 001
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
>
> I, after remaining silent for 4 months also feel the need of
throwing my
> 2 cents in. I feel like Dallas and Vince. After reading the trashy, 12
year
> old mentality of Chris Wilcox's retort, I have heard enough. Please
let John
> build his kits, Mark sell his kits, people build sliders, fliptops, or
> anything else they feel like building. I really don't think anyone
cares
> whether we like or approve of it or not. If you feel the need to toss
your
> personal comments in, do it direct and not for all of us that neither
care
> nor want to hear this crap. There's always got to be a few. Matt
please print
> the mission statement yet another time so the 12 year olds might
understand
> this is not the place for this. Tell them to write "Dear Abbey" or
National
> Inquirer, but please let this be the spot for grownups to exchange
quality,
> neat, constructive builder/operator stuff. TT in Indy
BRAVO, And ditto.
Archie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hr2pilot(at)aol.com |
It seam to me without this stuff there is no rocket list if you ask the
question someone on the list well answer, good or bad. I have been here for
any one who ask
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 4/16/01 10:16:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, HR69GT(at)aol.com
writes:
>
> I, after remaining silent for 4 months also feel the need of throwing
> my
> 2 cents in. I feel like Dallas and Vince. After reading the trashy, 12 year
> old mentality of Chris Wilcox's retort, I have heard enough.
>
***I had 2 cents too!
BANG! # ! POW*"# SLAP>>>
Good job, I think you cyber slapped Chris Wilcox pretty good, but some of
this carping stuff is very funny and on a local level (at the hangar) makes
most of us laugh our ass's off. Ever wonder what some of these guys are like?
I believe there is room for the serious builder to exchange quality, neat,
constructive builder/operator stuff, but when that constructive
builder/operator stuff is going smooth (meaning no post) we all should sit
back and let these
"Rocket List Boneheads" post their Idea's and fantasies, after all nothing
said on these post's is going to change anything with what the kit builders
do.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 4/16/2001 12:16:22 PM Central Daylight Time,
HR69GT(at)aol.com writes:
> I, after remaining silent for 4 months also feel the need of throwing my
> 2 cents in. I feel like Dallas and Vinci. After reading the trashy, 12 year
> old mentality of Chris Wilcox's retort, I have heard enough. Please let
> John
> build his kits, Mark sell his kits, people build sliders, fliptops, or
> anything else they feel like building. I really don't think anyone cares
> whether we like or approve of it or not. If you feel the need to toss your
> personal comments in, do it direct and not for all of us that neither care
> nor want to hear this crap. There's always got to be a few. Matt please
> print
> the mission statement yet another time so the 12 year olds might understand
> this is not the place for this. Tell them to write "Dear Abbey" or National
> Inquirer, but please let this be the spot for grownups to exchange quality,
> neat, constructive builder/operator stuff. TT in Indy
I guess I have to respond since I have been called trashy and I have a 12
year olds mentality. I am not quite sure on how my saying that a slider is
sexy, can be called trashy. The trashiest remark I have made was in regard
to John Harmon's remarks about that it doesn't sound like a quick build to me
in regards to the F1 slider.
Building an experimental aircraft is a matter of personal opinion. I am
building a slider cause I think its sexy. Some people build a flip cause
they like it better. If you cant deal with comments like that go hide in a
hole, cause personal opinions are abound in the world today.
Also I think its quite remarkable that John Harmon can make snide remarks in
here all the time, and nothing is said, but hey your building a Harmon. But
yet let someone who is not building a Harmon question something and he has to
be "cyber slapped" I believe was the term used, by the gentleman who has
accused Mark on the list of being a thief basically.
Rules go both ways fellows, You cant tell one person he has to shut up and
then let another say what he wants. Plus theirs a free speech amendment and
other stuff like that to.
Yes, I do admit I go to far sometimes and for that I apologize. But if you
want to go back over the last few weeks I was also the first person that said
this needed to end this time, but yet you all conveniently forget that.
I left this list once before, but I was asked to come back, now people want
me to leave again, Its so confusing, lol. But I think I will stay and
contribute when I see fit. If you don't like what I have to say, don't read
my posts. It is fairly easy to see that the post came from cw9371(at)aol.com.
If you don't want to hear what I have to say just delete it.
Chris Wilcox
F1 rocket builder
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 4/17/2001 2:49:15 AM Central Daylight Time,
MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com writes:
> BANG! # ! POW*"# SLAP>>>
> Good job, I think you cyber slapped Chris Wilcox pretty good, but some of
> this carping stuff is very funny and on a local level (at the hangar) makes
> most of us laugh our ass's off. Ever wonder what some of these guys are
> like?
> I believe there is room for the serious builder to exchange quality, neat,
> constructive builder/operator stuff, but when that constructive
> builder/operator stuff is going smooth (meaning no post) we all should sit
> back and let these
> "Rocket List Boneheads" post their Idea's and fantasies, after all nothing
> said on these post's is going to change anything with what the kit builders
> do.
Yea, I am such an ass, yet I have the Team Rocket cookout at my house during
eaa. Yet almost half the people there were harmon rocket builders.
If you want to meet me, come to oshkosh. I'll even buy you a beer or two so
you can get to know me.
Chris Wilcox
F1 rocket builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
I was running a tap through a painted #6 nutplate and the thing snapped
off. How do I get the broken bit out?
Thank-you,
Norman Hunger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Martin" <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | oil breather tube |
Listers
I have one job left on the engine installation and that is the oil breather
tube. On my last rocket I used a neat little piece of radiator hose that
had the right bends. I turns out that oil degrads the inner linings of
radiator hoses!, I am looking for suggestions from the crowd about what
materials to use for this application. There really is not a lot of room at
the top of the engine as the port is very close to the engine mount frame.
It is exciting to get to this stage, I should get a weight and balance
done next week and maybe start the engine up as well!!
Tom Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
>
> I was running a tap through a painted #6 nutplate and the thing snapped
> off. How do I get the broken bit out?
>
> Thank-you,
> Norman Hunger
Warm the area with a hair dryer, (if practical), and
add some WD40 or similar agent.
Many ways to remove, but try a tap extractor first.
use a #6 extractor.
Center punch and drill out with the appropriate drill,
(carbide), then use an easy out.
Possible to use a fine punch on the periphery of the
tap, and with gentle tapping, unwind.
Could be removed with a portable EDM. ($$)
Bite the bullet & replace the nut plate.
There are others, but dependent on the location,
may not be feasible.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Mokry <robmokry(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: oil breather tube |
There is a black rubber(syn?) medium pressure hose in Spruce's catalog rated for
fuels
and oils. If memory serves me correctly 7/8"- 1" id. I don't have my catalogs
here at
home (they're at work where I do my procurement processing). I was concerned about
the
tight routing near the engine mount but this hose has a stiff wall and is holding
up
well. I had to transition to a final termination of 5/8" id through a smaller
dia hose
slipped inside and with a thinwall aluminum tube inside of that to carry the clamp
pressure. I will post the MS # later today.
Tom Martin wrote:
>
> Listers
> I have one job left on the engine installation and that is the oil breather
> tube. On my last rocket I used a neat little piece of radiator hose that
> had the right bends. I turns out that oil degrads the inner linings of
> radiator hoses!, I am looking for suggestions from the crowd about what
> materials to use for this application. There really is not a lot of room at
> the top of the engine as the port is very close to the engine mount frame.
> It is exciting to get to this stage, I should get a weight and balance
> done next week and maybe start the engine up as well!!
>
> Tom Martin
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: oil breather tube |
Hi Tom. I also used a be with the correct bends. I haven't noticed any
deterioration but if it does I guess I should remember the part # and just
replace it and then it will always look new.(even the birds in the trees hung
their heads and said, CHEEP! CHEEP!) Thanks for your comment on my spew.
Sometimes I blast out too hard but gosh, it is beginning to sound like a
bunch of old biddies at the quilting party. Luv, TT in Indy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: oil breather tube |
Tom,
Take your piece of radiator hose back to your local auto supply and tell them you
need
one just like it, that is fuel resistant, made from neoprene. A good auto supply
will
have a variety of fuel and emission hoses to choose from. You might have to go
through
the stock matching it up, but you should be able to find one. It will require a
little
cooperation from the salesman, but a good one will help you. This information comes
from 25 years in the retail auto parts business. We never turned down a sale on
a hose,
there's always one that will work.
Doug
Tom Martin wrote:
>
> Listers
> I have one job left on the engine installation and that is the oil breather
> tube. On my last rocket I used a neat little piece of radiator hose that
> had the right bends. I turns out that oil degrads the inner linings of
> radiator hoses!, I am looking for suggestions from the crowd about what
> materials to use for this application. There really is not a lot of room at
> the top of the engine as the port is very close to the engine mount frame.
> It is exciting to get to this stage, I should get a weight and balance
> done next week and maybe start the engine up as well!!
>
> Tom Martin
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: oil breather tube |
Tom and Rob. What are you guys doing to combat the tendency of the
breather tube to freeze over in cold climes with catastrophic results as has
happened to several aircraft? Luv, TT in Indy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: oil breather tube |
One common practice in our race engines
is to plumb it into the induction system.
No oil residue on the belly, and light
vacuum for the lower end.
Remember, the better the ring seal, the less
pressure out of the breather.
Archie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robmokry(at)pacbell.net |
| Subject: | Re: oil breather tube |
Stratoflex 160 hose mil-h-6000, 1" id,
Multiple layers and won't colapse.
I havn't heard (or experienced) of the freezing vent lines-jeeze just when it was
safe to get back in the water. Tom?
----Original Message-----
>From: HR69GT(at)aol.com
>To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
>Subj: Re: Rocket-List: oil breather tube
>Reply To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 8:50 AM
>
>
> Tom and Rob. What are you guys doing to combat the tendency of the
>breather tube to freeze over in cold climes with catastrophic results as has
>happened to several aircraft? Luv, TT in Indy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Martin" <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | oil breather tube |
Thanks to all the replies regarding breather hoses. I will let the list
know what I settle on. In my research today I found that there are lots of
1" hoses out there but not many that are resistant to oil on the inside. A
radiator hose for example is resistant to oil on the outside.
It is important to get the right hose as any restriction that could block
the tube could cause your front crankshaft seal to blow.
In Canada we have to have a "whistle slot" or hole in the tube near the
end
but inside the cowling. This would provide a pressure relief if the hose
did freeze over. This is possible in colder climates or at altitude under
certain conditions. The hole is very small and does not tend to leak oil.
Thanks again, it is nice to see the list respond so positively!
Tom Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
robmokry(at)pacbell.net
Sent: April 18, 2001 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: oil breather tube
Stratoflex 160 hose mil-h-6000, 1" id,
Multiple layers and won't colapse.
I havn't heard (or experienced) of the freezing vent lines-jeeze just when
it was safe to get back in the water. Tom?
----Original Message-----
>From: HR69GT(at)aol.com
>To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
>Subj: Re: Rocket-List: oil breather tube
>Reply To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 8:50 AM
>
>
> Tom and Rob. What are you guys doing to combat the tendency of the
>breather tube to freeze over in cold climes with catastrophic results as
has
>happened to several aircraft? Luv, TT in Indy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Dal Porto <bdalporto(at)earthlink.net> |
We had a problem with some floating nut plates at work a couple of years
ago. What we did was bend two of the tangs up and replace the nut piece. I
don't know if yours are the floating type but good luck any way.
Brian
Norman Hunger wrote:
>
> I was running a tap through a painted #6 nutplate and the thing snapped
> off. How do I get the broken bit out?
>
> Thank-you,
> Norman Hunger
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KAOS <kaos(at)captainkaos.com> |
Rocket list
There have been some photos of jimmy's plane
And news letter from s&f
Added to the web server
Happy flying
kaos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terminaltown(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Sites up and running |
cadet-list(at)matronics.com, cessna-list(at)matronics.com,
czech-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com, glasair-list(at)matronics.com,
homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com,
piper-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com,
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, rvcanada-list(at)matronics.com,
rveurope-list(at)matronics.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com,
seaplane-list(at)matronics.com, skymaster-list(at)matronics.com,
smithmini-list(at)matronics.com, sonerai-list(at)matronics.com,
yak-list(at)matronics.com, zenith-list(at)matronics.com,
lancair-list(at)matronics.com
Hello Listers:
Terminal Town's Shopping Cart is up
and running!
Or http://www.terminaltown.com
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
,
| Subject: | ANR Headset Conversion |
I have been thinking of converting two of my DC's to this exact system.
http://www.avweb.com/sponsors/headsets/index.html
They've been around a few years now and I've yet to hear anything bad about
them.
They run off a 9v battery that will last 20 hours. Does that mean a 9v
rechargeable will last slightly under 20 hours?
What I would like to source is a 9v battery charger that is very small and
runs on 12v. Does anyone know of one and a source? I want to run
re-chargeable batteries and have the ability to charge up dead ones in my
airplane. I have two cig lighter sockets in a really neat side panel in the
luggage compartment. There are two more on the bottom right of my panel just
above a pocket. I'll buy three batteries and rotate them when one dies.
I have ten year old DC 10-30's and 10-40's in perfect condition and would
rather upgrade these quality pieces than spend another couple of thousand
dollars on new fashion pieces.
Thanks,
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ANR Headset Conversion |
>
> I have been thinking of converting two of my DC's to this exact system.
> http://www.avweb.com/sponsors/headsets/index.html
> They've been around a few years now and I've yet to hear anything bad
about
> them.
>
> They run off a 9v battery that will last 20 hours. Does that mean a 9v
> rechargeable will last slightly under 20 hours?
You can purchase a plug-in module from them which
will allow to discard the battery and use the aircraft
system.
Archie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ANR Headset Conversion |
>
> I have been thinking of converting two of my DC's..
>
>You can purchase a plug-in module from them which
>will allow to discard the battery and use the aircraft
>system.
I had these in my last airplane. I'd definitely recommend powering them
from the aircraft electrical system rather than the 9v battery. Tie wrap
or use lacing cord (better)to tie the power cord to the headset cord to
eliminate having to deal with extra loose wires, and mount the power jack
next to your headset and microphone jacks. Much neater installation. Also,
the 9v batteries never seem to fail on the ground, which means you have to
change them in flight - a momentary but unnecessary distraction. The first
few times the battery runs down in flight the sudden increase in engine
noise will give you a nice adrenaline rush.
The 9v battery pack is about 3 3/4" X 2 1/4" X 15/16". If you use it
you'll need to keep it in a pocket or velcro it to something, and don't
forget to turn it off when you shut down or you'll discharge the battery.
You'll need one for each headset.
I think a twenty hour battery life is a bit optimistic (by about 50%)
unless the current system is more efficient than it was two or three years
ago.
Tim - Pittsburgh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Carter" <ronc(at)metropolis.slc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ANR Headset Conversion |
Norman-
I tried the Denali, Lightspeed 15 and 25,owned Flightcom Eclipse, and I
have tried the "Headsets" brand add on noise cancelling modules and sent
them all back. Granted on the Headsets inserts I did not fine tune the ear
seals like they suggest and I was using some low cost Flightcom 5DX headsets
for the starting point. After trying all major brands but DC I bought
another pair of Bose X headsets. They are worth every penny, especially when
the objective is to keep my wife as comfortable as possible in the Rocket.
(She is like most wives in that she only gets in the plane for special trips
once or twice a year. But I figure if she hates it she will probably never
go again). Plus the Bose are so light and comfortable, totally amazing. If
you have not flown with them you owe it to your ears to try them out.
Ron Carter
Rocket # 149
155 hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: Norman Hunger <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
;
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 10:31 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: ANR Headset Conversion
>
> I have been thinking of converting two of my DC's to this exact system.
> http://www.avweb.com/sponsors/headsets/index.html
> They've been around a few years now and I've yet to hear anything bad
about
> them.
>
> They run off a 9v battery that will last 20 hours. Does that mean a 9v
> rechargeable will last slightly under 20 hours?
>
> What I would like to source is a 9v battery charger that is very small and
> runs on 12v. Does anyone know of one and a source? I want to run
> re-chargeable batteries and have the ability to charge up dead ones in my
> airplane. I have two cig lighter sockets in a really neat side panel in
the
> luggage compartment. There are two more on the bottom right of my panel
just
> above a pocket. I'll buy three batteries and rotate them when one dies.
>
> I have ten year old DC 10-30's and 10-40's in perfect condition and would
> rather upgrade these quality pieces than spend another couple of thousand
> dollars on new fashion pieces.
>
> Thanks,
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
| Subject: | I read through ALL the rocket list archives yesterday. |
I read through ALL the rocket list archives yesterday. ALL of them. Ack!
Building tips were few and far between. But there were 20,000 posts from
listers whining about everything from JPI, to F-1 vs HR, to business
integrity. I almost threw up.
That's why I'm taking a little time and effort to try to put together a
builder's tips page. I'm trying to get the plans corrections, errors, and
omissions put in this week.
I sure could use some input from builders who have finished one of these
things. Remember, I'm only on the wings (although I've built an RV-4 and
other lesser airplanes) so my comments are like having a doctor who has only
watched surgery trying to tell someone else which artery to clamp.
Please share your tips with me and the list.
Thanks,
Vince Frazier
3965 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-985-7309 home
812-464-1839 work
Harmon Rocket II ... the fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
http://www.usi.edu/CHEM/FACULTY/vfrazier/page1.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "FRED WEAVER" <Mytyweav(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: I read through ALL the rocket list archives yesterday. |
Thanx Vince........It would be great to avoid the "Drivle"...
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: Frazier, Vincent A <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 6:33 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: I read through ALL the rocket list archives yesterday.
>
>
> I read through ALL the rocket list archives yesterday. ALL of them. Ack!
> Building tips were few and far between. But there were 20,000 posts from
> listers whining about everything from JPI, to F-1 vs HR, to business
> integrity. I almost threw up.
>
> That's why I'm taking a little time and effort to try to put together a
> builder's tips page. I'm trying to get the plans corrections, errors, and
> omissions put in this week.
>
> I sure could use some input from builders who have finished one of these
> things. Remember, I'm only on the wings (although I've built an RV-4 and
> other lesser airplanes) so my comments are like having a doctor who has
only
> watched surgery trying to tell someone else which artery to clamp.
>
> Please share your tips with me and the list.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Vince Frazier
> 3965 Caborn Road
> Mount Vernon, IN 47620
> 812-985-7309 home
> 812-464-1839 work
> Harmon Rocket II ... the fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
> http://www.usi.edu/CHEM/FACULTY/vfrazier/page1.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SixShooters1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | rocket kit for sale |
Listers, I have a rocket qb kit for sale. If you are interested, please
respond off-line. thanks!
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MBragg001(at)cs.com |
Scott , Could you e-mail me and let me know what you E-Mail is .
My phone # 949-650-8443
Cel 904-314-4747
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Construction Comment |
Hi All,
The upper longeron attachment to the firewall bracket uses flush fasteners
through the fuselage side skin, the longeron and the steel bracket (This is a
secondary attachment).
There are also four #10 fasteners through the top of each longeron into the
steel bracket (This is the primary attachment).
On the HR2, the spacing for these fasteners are shown in the RV-4 plans.
On the F-1, there is a page just to install these fasteners.
Just thought I would mention this.
"When an engine quits running" is the preferred definition to "losing" an
engine. :-)
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | elevator push tube question |
Rocketeers,
Can someone tell me if the holes in the 406 and 407 for the elevator control
tube are okay if sized according to the RV4 plans?
I was looking through my photo archives and it appeared that it needed to be
enlarged on a friends RV4. He made his sort of a rounded triangle that
looked about 3" across at the 406. Am I missing something?
Aloha,
Russ
Maui, HRII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Martin" <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | elevator push tube question |
Russ
Yes, the holes have to be enlarged as you noticed. The hole dimension that
Van gives is just a place to start. On both of my rockets I have had to
raise the rear stick 1/8" higher to get clearance between the push tube and
the rear spar pickups at the number six bulkhead. Each plane will be
slightly different so you may not have to do this. Have fun!
Tom Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Russ Werner
Sent: April 30, 2001 4:35 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: elevator push tube question
Rocketeers,
Can someone tell me if the holes in the 406 and 407 for the elevator control
tube are okay if sized according to the RV4 plans?
I was looking through my photo archives and it appeared that it needed to be
enlarged on a friends RV4. He made his sort of a rounded triangle that
looked about 3" across at the 406. Am I missing something?
Aloha,
Russ
Maui, HRII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
Here's a list of allegedly bigger salvage yards that have websites:
Westcan in Kamloops BC
http://www.westcanaircraft.com/index.html
Upper Valley Aviation in Chilliwack BC
http://www.uppervalleyaviation.com/
Global Aircraft Industries
http://www.globalparts.com/index.html
Discount Aircraft Salvage in Deer Park Washington
http://www.discountaircraftsalvage.com/
I'm now looking for the bigger yards from all over the States. Can anyone
supply some more links?
Thank-you,
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
,
So I emailed these guys and asked what is coming out with a bigger screen.
I'm just trying to keep on top of the latest greatest color moving map. They
said Sharp is about to release a good 6 inch screen. Hitachi currently has
the Eplate at 8 inches but it is not very good in sunlight. They currently
recommend the 4 inch Ipaq.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Hall <tkhall(at)highland.net> |
Take a look at the Fujitsu 500-C pen tablet. 2#, has great brightness than
can be controlled and even further increased by mod. Will run JeppView
Flightdeck, Echomap, etc. A very capable compact and cockpit friendly
computer with onscreen keyboard
Tom Hall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Norman Hunger
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 12:07 AM
rvcanada-list(at)matronics.com; rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Rocket-List: Anywhere Map
So I emailed these guys and asked what is coming out with a bigger screen.
I'm just trying to keep on top of the latest greatest color moving map. They
said Sharp is about to release a good 6 inch screen. Hitachi currently has
the Eplate at 8 inches but it is not very good in sunlight. They currently
recommend the 4 inch Ipaq.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hr2pilot(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Key Switch Failures |
My Bendix switch failed after 1450 HR the Rocket III well have 2 Toggle and a
push button $14. $150 for the Bendix.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Key Switch Failures |
Hi John,
But what do you think of having two switches in parallel? Is it an
electrical no no?
And what is the Rocket III going to be?
Thank-you,
Norman Hunger
: Re: Rocket-List: Key Switch Failures
>
> My Bendix switch failed after 1450 HR the Rocket III well have 2 Toggle
and a
> push button $14. $150 for the Bendix.
> John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hr2pilot(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Key Switch Failures |
Do you need more weight? Keep it light and simple.
380HP single seat with a real short wing
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Key Switch Failures |
I had TWO (2) of those switches on other aircraft fail, and one
almost got me while propping the engine, it started and knocked my gloved
hands out of the way. Luckily I had the mixture all the way out and it quit
after an eternity as I was frozen and afraid to blink my eyes as the prop was
tipping the brim of a cowboy hat. Needless to say, I have 2 toggles (one
mounted in reverse for an Electro-Air ign) and a button that have worked
flawlessly. TT in Indy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dallas Benham" <dlbenham(at)smithville.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Key Switch Failures |
Ouch! That was a close one Tailspin. Glad you didn't get prop chopped.
As I remember back 40 or so years ago, All Piper Pawnee ag planes used the 2 toggle
and push button set-up, and I believe most of the planes used 0-540 Lycs, although
some of the
earlier planes used the 0-320. Seemed to work fine for piper and was cheap and
light. ( I must admit
however, I went the Bendix key start route also.)
Dallas
Rocket II
398DB
________________________________________________________________________________
Can any of you fellows share information as to what prices are being
paid for IO-540-C4B5 engines.
Thanks,
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "sue gregor" <hailey67(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-540 Prices |
Doug it depends on the quality of the engine you want. The pricing can vary
from about 20k to 30k. I sell the ones I build for 27k. This is with new
cylinders all new accessories and built to Lycoming NEW limits. The engines
are test run pickled for long term storage and come with a excellent
warranty. I can also build engines with overhauled cylinders and accessories
for less. If you would like more information feel free to call me at
250-376-2955 or e-mail at this address.
Regards Bart Lalonde
>From: dfuss(at)eaze.net
>Reply-To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "rocket-list(at)matronics.com"
>Subject: Rocket-List: IO-540 Prices
>Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 23:25:02 -0500
>
>
>Can any of you fellows share information as to what prices are being
>paid for IO-540-C4B5 engines.
>
>Thanks,
>Doug
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Martin" <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | weight and balance |
I just finished getting the weights on this rocket. The empty weight is
1173 lbs with 33 lbs of that on the tail. This one is 11 lbs heavier than
my last plane. I had really tried to keep the weight down during
construction but this plane has some extras; lights, rear rudder pedals, and
extra storage. Darn, I wanted all that stuff and less weight... The good
news is that this engine bench tested 267hp vs 260 for the other plane so my
lbs/hp actually went down.
I should be starting the engine next week, final inspection to follow...
Tom Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan E. Files" <bfiles(at)gci.net> |
Bart are you installing new crankshafts in these engines?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of sue gregor
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: IO-540 Prices
Doug it depends on the quality of the engine you want. The pricing can vary
from about 20k to 30k. I sell the ones I build for 27k. This is with new
cylinders all new accessories and built to Lycoming NEW limits. The engines
are test run pickled for long term storage and come with a excellent
warranty. I can also build engines with overhauled cylinders and accessories
for less. If you would like more information feel free to call me at
250-376-2955 or e-mail at this address.
Regards Bart Lalonde
>From: dfuss(at)eaze.net
>Reply-To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "rocket-list(at)matronics.com"
>Subject: Rocket-List: IO-540 Prices
>Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 23:25:02 -0500
>
>
>Can any of you fellows share information as to what prices are being
>paid for IO-540-C4B5 engines.
>
>Thanks,
>Doug
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi Norm,
Speaking from an operational point of view, IMHO the toggle switches are
the way to go. Easier to operate, and you don't have the crossed
orientation of mag selection (i.e. the key position to operate on the left
mag is to the right of the position to operate on the right mag - confusing
for simple minds like mine). I used to fly Twin Cessnas that had the
toggle switch/push button set-up and found it easy to use.
I would suggest some type of guard around the mag switches to keep them
from being accidently turned on (dangerous) or off (exciting!).
Regarding the start button, a nice RV-8 I saw at OSH last year had a toggle
switch on the panel that "enabled" the start button. The start button
itself was on the stick grip, so the the stick was held while engaging the
starter. After start, the panel mounted toggle switch is turned off to
disable the start button, preventing inadvertant actuation. I think this
is a slick setup, and is what I will use.
Tim
Pittsburgh-based future builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Carter" <ronc(at)metropolis.slc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: weight and balance |
Tom-
Who built your Engine.
Ron Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 5:34 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: weight and balance
>
> I just finished getting the weights on this rocket. The empty weight is
> 1173 lbs with 33 lbs of that on the tail. This one is 11 lbs heavier than
> my last plane. I had really tried to keep the weight down during
> construction but this plane has some extras; lights, rear rudder pedals,
and
> extra storage. Darn, I wanted all that stuff and less weight... The good
> news is that this engine bench tested 267hp vs 260 for the other plane so
my
> lbs/hp actually went down.
> I should be starting the engine next week, final inspection to
follow...
>
> Tom Martin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Martin" <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | weight and balance |
Ron
My engine was rebuilt by A.T.C. in Orillia Ontario.
Tom Martin
Who built your Engine.
Ron Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 5:34 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: weight and balance
>
> I just finished getting the weights on this rocket. The empty weight is
> 1173 lbs with 33 lbs of that on the tail. This one is 11 lbs heavier than
> my last plane. I had really tried to keep the weight down during
> construction but this plane has some extras; lights, rear rudder pedals,
and
> extra storage. Darn, I wanted all that stuff and less weight... The good
> news is that this engine bench tested 267hp vs 260 for the other plane so
my
> lbs/hp actually went down.
> I should be starting the engine next week, final inspection to
follow...
>
> Tom Martin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jones15183(at)aol.com |
Bart Lalonde, Do you use the wide deck or narrow deck engines in your engine
buildups? Could you explain the difference (and or advantage) in the two
engines.Thanks Billy Waters
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "sue gregor" <hailey67(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming I0-540-D4A5 Engine |
Rocket builders.
Lycoming IO-540 D4A5 available. Complete with all accessories. Includes
light weight starter and alternater[40amp]and new cylinders. Engine built to
Lycoming new limits. All service bulletins and ADs complied with. Warranty
one year from start up date. Interest parties e-mail for more information.
Regards Bart Lalonde
________________________________________________________________________________
Just wanted to thank all who responded to my request for information on
engine pricing. It's really nice when this list functions the way it
was intended.
Thanks......Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian E. Adams" <md11plt(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming I0-540-D4A5 Engine |
To all,
I found an engine by placing a free ad on Wings Online. I found a
IO-540 with only 133 hours total time since new for $15,000. This was
complete with all accessories including baffling and oil cooler. I just
have to replace the engine mounts. Not a bad deal. Do it earlier as it
took me 3 months before someone responded to my ad.
If you are not in a hurry, try a free ad, and defiantly look at them.
You might find a better deal. To answer Doug's question, when I was
looking for my engine, I found that the average cost of a run out core is
around $8,500.
I hope this helps.
Brian
Original HR II builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Hall <tkhall(at)highland.net> |
| Subject: | Ideas for bending fwd canopy bow |
F1buildersLists Cc Utexas Edu
Since others have indicated to me that they have had problems with bending
the tubing by using two blocks attached to bench, I will submit what I have
found to be more accurate and useful. When using wooden blocks as fulcrum, I
had trouble with the tubing not only bending at block fulcrum, but also
father away. This was caused by distance necessary to obtain significant
leverage and bending of the tubing far from the fulcrum.
I found it easier to bend in bench vise using wood blocks in jaws. In my
case, I just used 2X and rested on throat of vise. One could attach with
The Handymans Secret Weapon (duct tape for those unfamiliar with Red
Green). Obviously you cannot really crank down the vise, but that is not
necessary. I used a solid rod of about diameter and about one foot long
to insert into the end of the tubing. This gave leverage, but distributed
the force, so that virtually all bending occurs at fulcrum. One can also use
pipe with a sufficient ID to allow to fit over tubing. This is particularly
helpful in straightening lower portions and increasing radius, if needed.
Needless to say, working over an area with small bends is preferable to
major bends at one point. ( Can you say crease). Hope this is useful to
others.
Tom #15
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LKDAUDT2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ideas for bending fwd canopy bow |
Thats exactly what I did when I bent my rollbar...
Larry #001
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SixShooters1(at)aol.com |
Has anyone had problems with the square tubing that attaches to the rear bow
of the canopy frame being not in the center of the bow? This is the piece
that eventually attaches to the spine that runs down the back of the rocket
for the canopy slide. If anyone has had this problem, please tell me a fix.
Thanks!
Scott
F-1 Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Gross" <rocketrobert(at)hotmail.com> |
test plz ignore
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New web page added |
| From: | KAOS <kaos(at)captainkaos.com> |
Rocket list
Sitting around down here in aussie land as we do
I added another page to the web site
Just click the quick find and boom off you go to it
Have a nice week end
Cap kaos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Gross" <rocketrobert(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New web page added |
Is this list dead? I've only seen one post in 4 days. Anyone hearing me?
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "KAOS" <kaos(at)captainkaos.com>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 4:02 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: New web page added
>
> Sitting around down here in aussie land as we do
> I added another page to the web site
> Just click the quick find and boom off you go to it
> Have a nice week end
>
> Cap kaos
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New web page added |
This list is not very active.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Gross" <rocketrobert(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: New web page added
>
> Is this list dead? I've only seen one post in 4 days. Anyone hearing me?
>
> Bob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "KAOS" <kaos(at)captainkaos.com>
> To: "F1builders lists" ; "Rocket list"
>
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 4:02 AM
> Subject: Rocket-List: New web page added
>
>
> >
> > Sitting around down here in aussie land as we do
> > I added another page to the web site
> > Just click the quick find and boom off you go to it
> > Have a nice week end
> >
> > Cap kaos
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Inactivity |
>
>
>
> I can fix that! Which is better, the Harmon Rocket or the F-1?
>
> [Easy there...just kidding...] ;)
>
> Tim
Do you like McIntosh or Delicious?
Is it relevant?
They are both great looking and performing aircraft.
Thank goodness we have choices of two offshoots
of perhaps the most successful kit plane provider.
Archie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Starn" <jhstarn(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Inactivity |
Thirty days has septober,
Everyone eats peanut butter
'cept Grandmother,
she flies a Rocket.
Gummibear was looking for the stuff to lubricate the tool for attaching 491
fittings into 303 hose today. I may have his e-mails mixed up but he was
also advising someone about using KY jelly and salt.
There, that should heat up this ole list. :>) KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: Archie <archie97(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket-List Inactivity
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Dal Porto <bdalporto(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Inactivity |
Ok I've been lurking long enough. I've read some comments referring back and
forth gingerly about the HRII versus the F1. Can some one fill me in. Thinking
about one or the other. Hope this isn't opening an old can of worms just
curious.
Brian
John Starn wrote:
>
> Thirty days has septober,
> Everyone eats peanut butter
> 'cept Grandmother,
> she flies a Rocket.
> Gummibear was looking for the stuff to lubricate the tool for attaching 491
> fittings into 303 hose today. I may have his e-mails mixed up but he was
> also advising someone about using KY jelly and salt.
> There, that should heat up this ole list. :>) KABONG
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Archie <archie97(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 7:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket-List Inactivity
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Inactivity |
In a message dated 5/18/2001 11:18:07 PM Central Daylight Time,
n45640(at)earthlink.net writes:
> I'm new to this.
> what's
> the difference between the
Harmon is a highly modified Rv4 kit. F1 is a true quick build kit or a slow
build kit. There are other major diffenceses, but email me directly.
chris wilcox
F1 rocket builder, kit 000
cw9371(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Martin" <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | The doors are open |