Rocket-Archive.digest.vol-av
June 15, 2009 - April 27, 2010
us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and
support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'.
A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these
things, and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a
box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security
he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable.
Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't
play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead to
their massive buildup.
See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go
back to normal.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: | nico <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> css |
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: | ander-List: Fuming Mad! |
Folks,
I am fuming mad.
The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can
understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on
that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards
similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the countryside.
Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his
or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was
taught from childhood that you don't point a firearm at anybody unless you
are prepared to use it. There is no justification for assuming otherwise
with law enforcement.
Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue
priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the
drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers
lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get
out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that
as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate
response by extrapolating it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to
defend! Those who do not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long
Beach, for incompetence, is just as guilty.
Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when
they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting
everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should
pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect
drawn weapons pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with
them that day? And don't say that it will happen only when there is
justified belief of a suspicious passenger or pilot involved because you
already defended an action where such prior knowledge was not present; on
the contrary, all indications were that there were no suspicious persons on
board that flight. If your agency embarked on a course to totally destroy
general aviation, you have certainly shown the methods by which you want to
accomplish that goal.
I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate
pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny.
Nico
_____
From: | owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR!
So tell me what does this mean for us peons?
As seen in AVweb
A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security
Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said
<http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_list.asp> this week. The list includes
airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as
well as in the U.S. Click here for
<http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_tsa_airportlist.pdf> the full list
(PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close
to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport
exit, according to
<http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090528tsa.html> AOPA, although
some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots.
Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would
satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations
and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about
that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to
provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full
text of the security directive has not been made public. The new listing of
airports is not the same as a list
<http://www.avweb.com/pdf/general_aviation_affected_airports_2009-01.pdf> of
airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft
Security Program.
CUSTOMS
<http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528> AND
BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK
A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border
Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an
aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal."
Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more
ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance
Passenger Information System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the
checks will have the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach,
Calif., pilot David Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an
interview on Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the
Long Beach operation but she also said she could not discuss the
circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP
and local police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the
Long Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in
more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online filing
of flight and passenger information for transborder flights, became
mandatory on May 18. In an interview
<http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/PilotProtestsCustomsCheck_200519-1.htm
l> and podcast <http://www.avweb.com/alm?podcast20090608&kw=RelatedStory>
with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril
by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience
is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This I
would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach
action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal.
"While the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the
heightened alert of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within
(CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles,
planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach
police officers assisting the operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents
kept theirs holstered, something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of
them had their weapons out," Perry said. More...
<http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | What was he thinking... |
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=65426
How would he have landed on that road? Surely hitting that SUV was a life
saver from what I can see. It provided him with a sudden stop with lots of
people around to pull them from the wreck. Had he hit the rocks on the side
trying to land on that narrow road, which appears inevitable, he would have
cart-wheeled and who knows what that outcome would have been. There is a
deep valley to the left in which he could have descended giving him many
more options. Or, he wasn't trying to land at all but buzz the SUV and being
too close to the hill he could have encountered sudden turbulence or a
downdraft.
Since they all survived, we'll know soon enough.
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | FW: If it an't "Boeing" I an't going,, |
Anybody has any experience with this?
Makes the term "If It an't Boeing I an't going" have more meaning
Subject: Air France Accident: Smoking Gun Found
A Brazilian Naval unit reportedly found the complete vertical fin/rudder
assembly of the doomed aircraft floating some 30 miles from the main debris
field. The search for the flight recorders goes on, but given the failure
history of the vertical fins on A300-series aircraft, an analysis of its
structure at the point of failure will likely yield the primary cause factor
in the breakup of the aircraft, with the flight recorder data (if found)
providing only secondary contributing phenomena.
The fin-failure-leading-to-breakup sequence is strongly suggested in the
attached (below) narrative report by George Larson, Editor emeritus of
Smithsonian Air & Space Magazine.
It's regrettable that these aircraft are permitted to continue in routine
flight operations with this known structural defect It appears that safety
finishes last within Airbus Industries, behind national pride and economics.
Hopefully, this accident will force the issue to be addressed, requiring at
a minimum restricted operations of selected platforms, and grounding of some
high-time aircraft until a re-engineered (strengthened) vertical fin/rudder
attachment structure can be incorporated.
This is an account of a discussion I had recently with a maintenance
professional who salvages airliner airframes for a living. He has been at it
for a while, dba BMI Salvage at Opa Locka Airport in Florida. In the process
of stripping parts, he sees things few others are able to see.
His observations confirm prior assessments of Airbus structural deficiencies
within our flight test and aero structures communities by those who have
seen the closely held reports of A3XX-series vertical fin failures.
His observations:
"I have scrapped just about every type of transport aircraft from A-310,
A-320, B-747, 727, 737, 707, DC-3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, MD-80, L-188,
L1011 and various Martin, Convair and KC-97 aircraft. Over a hundred of
them.
Airbus products are the flimsiest and most poorly designed as far as
airframe structure is concerned by an almost obsession to utilize composite
materials.
I have one A310 vertical fin on the premises from a demonstration I just
performed. It was pathetic to see the composite structure shatter as it
did, something a Boeing product will not do.
The vertical fin along with the composite hinges on rudder and elevators is
the worst example of structural use of composites I have ever seen and I am
not surprised by the current pictures of rescue crews recovering the
complete Vertical fin and rudder assembly at some distance from the crash
site.
The Airbus line has a history of both multiple rudder losses and a vertical
fin and rudder separation from the airframe as was the case in NY with AA.
As an old non-radar equipped DC4 pilot who flew through many a thunderstorm
in Africa along the equator, I am quite familiar with their ferocity. It is
not difficult to understand how such a storm might have stressed an aircraft
structure to failure at its weakest point, and especially so in the
presence of instrumentation problems.
I replied with this:
"I'm watching very carefully the orchestration of the inquiry by French
officials and Airbus. I think I can smell a concerted effort to steer
discussion away from structural issues and onto sensors, etc. Now Air
France, at the behest of their pilots' union, is replacing all the air data
sensors on the Airbus fleet, which creates a distraction and shifts the
media's focus away from the real problem.
It's difficult to delve into the structural issue without wading into the
Boeing vs. Airbus swamp, where any observation is instantly tainted by its
origin. Americans noting any Airbus structural issues (A380 early failure
of wing in static test; loss of vertical surfaces in Canadian fleet prior to
AA A300, e.g.) will be attacked by the other side as partisan, biased, etc.
"
His follow-up:
One gets a really unique insight into structural issues when one has
first-hand experience in the dismantling process.
I am an A&P, FEJ and an ATP with 7000 flight hours and I was absolutely
stunned, flabbergasted when I realized that the majority of internal
airframe structural supports on the A 310 which appear to be aluminum are
actually rolled composite material with aluminum rod ends. They shattered.
Three years ago we had a storm come through, with gusts up to 60-70 kts.,
catching several A320s tied down on the line, out in the open.
The A320 elevators and rudder hinges whose actuators had been
removed shattered and the rudder and elevators came off.
Upon closer inspection I realized that not only were the rear spars
composite but so were the hinges. While Boeing also uses composite
material in its airfoil structures, the actual attach fittings for the
elevators, rudder, vertical and horizontal stabilizers are all of machined
aluminum."
-----------------(end of narrative)---------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Runway incursion |
http://flash.aopa.org/asf/faarunwaysafety/BOS021508V3AOPA.swf
Click Play...
(Courtesy of eAOPA)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Right of the People |
I found this article by Paul Berge in Pacific Flyer (www.pacificflyer.com)
in the July 2009 edition. Paul has been my favorite aviation author for a
long time.
-------------------------------
They gathered in a circle beneath the hangar's dusty shop lamp. Shadows
forced Curtis to shift to keep the newspaper in the light.
"Read it again," someone asked in a soft voice. Curtis cleared his throat
before reading the newly ratified amendment to the Constitution: "A well
regulated Sky, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of
the people to keep and fly Aircraft, shall not be infringed."
"Man, that's good," Jean muttered. "And all in one sentence. Did you notice?
That's good writing. How many words in it?"
Curtiss counted and answered, "Twenty-seven." And they all stood quietly
considering the impact of those few words that seemed to guarantee their
right - not merely a privilege - to fly.
"Shall not be infringed, " Doug repeated. His voice rolled up from some deep
recess, gaining power as it left his mouth,. "That means we - the people -
got the right to fly, and no one, not even TSA, can take it away; 'bout damn
time, too."
And most of the crowd mumbled agreement, except Thomas who frowned and asked
to see the paper. He read it slowly to himself before saying, "This first
part concerns me." He tapped the paper with a finger.
"The way it starts, 'A well regulated Sky, being necessary to the security
of a free State...'"
"So what?" Doug interrupted. "Makes sense to have some rules, like we
already got for IFR, VFR, right-of-way and such..."
"Just concerns me," Thomas hesitated. "Like, maybe, the government might
point to the 'well-regulated' part whenever it wants to clamp down .."
"Shall not be infringed," Doug struck back. "That means we fly what we own,
and they got nothin' to say about it!" The vehemence with which he defended
the phrase masked an unspoken fear.
Thomas shook his head.
"Remember when TSA made us all get these silly badges just to get to our own
hangars?" He flicked the tag clipped to his overalls. "They decide what's
well regulated."
Doug slowly unclipped his security badge, smiled and tossed it to the floor.
The other stood in awe witnessing what they knew as an FAR violation.
Doug drew up his full six-foot-two-inch height and ground the offending
badge beneath his boot heel. Jean was next, and after she flung her security
badge to the oily pavement the other pilots threw theirs into a loose pile.
Only Thomas remained still wearing his badge. The clack on an air compressor
kicking on covered an uncomfortable silence.
But by the time it quit Thomas had gathered the badges and, adding his own,
dropped them into a trashcan. Once outside the hangar with the aerodrome
beacon flashing overhead, he drizzled avgas over them.
And then, before dropping a lit match, he intoned, "Shall not be infringed!"
It'd be left to future generations of pilots to decide if it was the
Constitutional amendment or the People's interpretation that saved aviation.
But on that July 4th evening a handful of rebel pilots declared independence
from tyranny.
-----------------------------
That about says it, Paul.
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Mid-Air collusion Today |
I comment on my blog on this today.
<http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/08/mid-air-collusion.html>
TruthByRushDelivery
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | [TruthByRushDelivery] Space Video |
I watched a lot of NASA's video feed from Space Shuttle Endeavour and the
International Space Station last week and edited some of the feed into a
short video.
I am a fool for speed, power, energy, altitude, and a vista of creation.
TruthByRushDelivery
<http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/08/space-video_08.html>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
Subject: | RE: Commander-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Space Video |
Thanks Nico for the putting the video together. Really festinating to
watch..!!
Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB
680F / N6253X
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street
San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 11:23 PM
Subject: Commander-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Space Video
I watched a lot of NASA's video feed from Space Shuttle Endeavour and the
International Space Station last week and edited some of the feed into a
short video.
I am a fool for speed, power, energy, altitude, and a vista of creation.
TruthByRushDelivery
<http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/08/space-video_08.html>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rgraham(at)ozemail.com.au |
Howdy Alistair,
It sounds like you're a real "bushy" now, I'm glad you've settled so well.
The Rocket hasn't flown for three weeks, due work-load, but mainly weather
- it's been very windy, and I'm expanding my x-wind confidence slowly!
The link is from NASA's video feed from the Shuttle and Space Station.
Cheers,
Ron
><http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/08/space-video_08.html>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Shuttling the Shuttle |
Today's post on my blog. TruthByRushDelivery
<http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/08/shuttling-shuttle.html>
Shuttling the Shuttle. From a NASA 747 pilot.
Forwarded by Tyler Hall.
Thanks, Tyler.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Fred LaForge" <fred.laforge(at)verizon.net> |
For all who couldnt attend Oshkosh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKU0uQki5Dc
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | What a powerful speech. |
What a powerful speech.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh9sTgFPQfg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Absolutely spectacular |
What an observation post...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PmYItnlY5M
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Trip Report FL-CO and back! |
Gentlemen,
-The list has been pretty quiet so here is a trip report. We just flew ou
r HR2 out to CO from our FL swamp strip home for our first vacation in a lo
ng time. The plan was to camp on a grass strip in the Rockies at 8250' MSL
for a week of fall colors, camping and hiking and return home, round trip a
lmost 3500 NM. We also planned to land on as many grass strips en route as
we could.-- Mission accomplished, well except for a a couple of paved e
xcursions. I marveled at the amazing numbers my 15 year-old girl posted. De
spite her almost 1000 hour airframe, the efficiency was evident. I have GAM
I injectors and an otherwise stock airframe with big tires and wheel-pants
for my off pavement operations. Flying economy cruise the entire trip I sti
ll managed an average of 10.7 GPH at 179.7 knots GS. With 10 gallon tip tan
ks (54 total) we did a leg from Dallas to central CO and still landed with
16 gallons! When we left two fellow campers with highly modified C-185
and C-206's watched us leave. We rolled about 600 feet and jumped off for
a, well, Rocket launch! Several times on the home leg I saw 200+ Knots GS a
t under 10GPH!-
I miss the F-16, but this is the next best thing!
SmokeyHR2http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoJEX3hdXqw=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Trip Report FL-CO and back! |
From: | im7shannon(at)aol.com |
Great to hear others are getting in some quality Rocket time! I have been using
mine to commute home on weekends from Montana to Washington State Olympic Penninsula,
about an 800 mile round trip and have been seeing similar numbers. I
have Gamis and EI also and usually run LOP unless there is much of a headwind
to deal with. Its great to leave Montana at 5 local time and get home at 6 local
time, and use only 20 gallons of fuel.
I have 160 hours on it now since my first flight last summer, the more I fly it
the more I love it!
Kevin Shannon
N450KS
HR!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Sep 21, 2009 9:27 pm
Subject: Rocket-List: Trip Report FL-CO and back!
Gentlemen,
?The list has been pretty quiet so here is a trip report. We just flew our HR2
out to CO from our FL swamp strip home for our first vacation in a long time.
The plan was to camp on a grass strip in the Rockies at 8250' MSL for a week of
fall colors, camping and hiking and return home, round trip almost 3500 NM.
We also planned to land on as many grass strips en route as we could.
?? Mission accomplished, well except for a a couple of paved excursions. I marveled
at the amazing numbers my 15 year-old girl posted. Despite her almost 1000
hour airframe, the efficiency was evident. I have GAMI injectors and an otherwise
stock airframe with big tires and wheel-pants for my off pavement operations.
Flying economy cruise the entire trip I still managed an average of 10.7
GPH at 179.7 knots GS. With 10 gallon tip tanks (54 total) we did a leg from
Dallas to central CO and still landed with 16 gallons! When we left two fellow
campers with highly modified C-185 and C-206's watched us leave. We rolled about
600 feet and jumped off for a, well, Rocket launch! Several times on the home
leg I saw 200+ Knots GS at under 10GPH!?
I miss the F-16, but this is the next best thing!
Smokey
HR2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoJEX3hdXqw
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rocketman <bluebird270(at)dslextreme.com> |
Subject: | WTB prop Hartzell M2YR |
Need Hartzell M2YR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerry Wymer <jerryw(at)higherspeed.net> |
Subject: | Fuselage fixture |
HR II steel fuselage fixture w/leg levelers - free - you pick up in
Albuquerque.
Jerry Wymer
jerryw(at)higherspeed.net
505-281-0424
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November! |
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's solely through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. There is NO advertising to support the Lists. You might have noticed the conspicuous lack of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics Email List email messages and web site pages such as the Matronics List Forums ( http://forums.matronics.com ), the List Wiki ( http://wiki.matronics.com), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matronics.com/search ), the List Browser ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of
days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution
counts!
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with
the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and
have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/).
These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective
web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product
line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support
of the Lists again this year!!
You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this
year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods
afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with
a qualifying Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Road Landing [from AVweb] (I guess they aren't going to publish |
this after all)
From: Aviation Safety [mailto:aviation_safety(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 12:27 PM
Subject: RE: Road Landing [from AVweb]
Thank you for your note about your experience in landing an airplane on a
road. On behalf of Aviation Safety magazine and AVweb, we sincerely
appreciate your taking the time to share your experience with us.
As you may recall, we asked for your response as part of a project to do a
podcast with two pilots who have landed on roads. Although it took way too
long, we're putting the finishing touches on that project.
Thanks for your response, and best wishes to you in your flying.
Jeb
Joseph E. (Jeb) Burnside
Editor-in-Chief
Aviation Safety magazine
www.aviationsafetymagazine.com
jeb.burnside(at)belvoirpubs.com
941.306.2245
_____
From: nico(at)nicsysco.com
Subject: Road Landing [from AVweb]
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:43:17 -0700
ROAD LANDING
This might not fit your exact story-profile, but in the 1970's and early
'80s, I used to land on roads in Southern Africa on a regular basis. During
those years, there were seldom anybody else in the sky when one ventures
away from the cities, especially north west towards Botswana and Namibia.
I was part of a construction company back then and we landed a contract to
build a flood control/irrigation dam near the Botswana border. Driving out
to survey the site before sending establishment crews to set up camp and
build an airfield, was an arduous affair with hardly any roads, no signs,
and not many people speaking English. Flying there and pick a road or open
area to land was par for the course in those days. Not that I needed a
reason to fly, I should add.
On this particular trip I flew a Cherokee 300, was alone and I made sure
that I didn't have too much fuel on board, preparing for very short landings
and take-offs. The Cherokee is not the plane of choice for road and bush
landings, because of the low wing. A high wing, fowler flap equipped plane,
especially with a STOL conversion, like a Cessna 206 or 207 is the ideal
tri-cycle plane for such work. The Cherokee had to do for this trip and the
only influence the low wing had on the trip was road selection: no culverts,
bridges, shrubs close to the road, and so on.
When I left, my guys wanted to know how I will prove that I actually landed
at the site. I said I'll bring back a rock with fresh soil on it. And off I
went armed with the topographical map of the dam-site. Since navigational
aids fade quickly in that direction, dead reckoning navigation is best not
forgotten and I ended up more or less in the vicinity after about an hour's
flight, but I could not pin-point the exact location to scout for a
camp-site and airfield. I saw, however, a nice gravel road running
north-south that should be close by the construction site.
The most important part of landing on a road is the preparation: make sure
that a safe landing can be executed and that a take-off would be easy. I
found that three inspection passes cover surface and obstacles, approach,
length, and overrun for both the landing and the take-off.
After landing, the unexpected happened. I couldn't help to think that I was
swarmed by hordes of ants, but they were black kids, nicely dressed in
school uniforms, that rushed out of school to witness this never-before-seen
phenomenon. I must have stirred up the excitement with my precautionary
passes and when I actually touched down smack in the middle of their school
complex, school was out. From the air, there was no indication that there
was a school there because their school consisted of mud huts and shelters
built of tree branches. Didn't look like anything in particular at all from
the air.
Pushing through roughly two-thousand kids now pushing up against the plane,
I could see an adult making his way towards me with a smile as large as the
Grand Canyon. I couldn't help but notice that he was smartly dressed with
shirt and tie, quite an unexpected site out in the bush. He shook my hand
vigorously and welcomed me at their school commenting on the excitement I
caused at his school and making for many essays to be written in the future
about the day a plane landed in the school yard.
After exchanging some niceties, I pulled my topographic map out from the
plane and explained to him what I was looking for and if he could point the
location on my map. He immediately recognized the local names on the map and
pointed to a small range of hills to the north and said the spot is just
over those hills and added some landmarks I should look out for. It turned
out he was the school's principal and geography teacher. That was truly
unexpected.
Take-off time. I walked to the side of the road and picked up a brick-sized
rock with fresh red-soil on it and tucked it safely into the plane. The kids
were singing and chanting with delight at the site before them and I had no
chance getting them to move away from the Cherokee. So, I asked the
principal if he could get the kids to move off the road as I will be
accelerating and they might not get out of the way in time. He waved and
yelled something in Tswana causing them to scatter along the road in the
direction of my take-off. As they lined the road, the one behind the one in
front leaning a bit into the road to see the plane, creating a funnel of
kids right into the middle of the road not more than 300 feet ahead. Several
times I had to get out onto the wing, waving them off the road. When I
started the engine, the road closed again with exciting kids wanting to see
and hear the roar of the 300 hp Lycoming, which must have sounded like
something from outer space to them. So I continued my dance out onto the
wing and back again a couple of times, until I had about 500 feet of clear
road ahead of me, cautious of a possible hard stop if they would not move
off the road in time as I approach on my takeoff roll. So I let all 300
horses go with the awesome roar that the Lycoming can produce and the
resultant dust storm behind it. Fortunately, the kids saw what was coming
and they smartly moved out of the way in a wave. I had more than enough
space to take off without endangering anyone, except perhaps the additional
homework that I brought onto them.
I proceeded to the construction site and successfully identified where we
would build the camp-site and airfield. When I landed at Lanseria, west of
Johannesburg, my guys were waiting for me having heard me calling in on the
comm and I promptly delivered the rock with fresh red-soil.
I guess the teachable moment is to expect anything and always be on guard.
Nico van Niekerk, Thousand Oaks, CA 91359
nico(at)acu.org
(818) 574-7146
_____
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up
________________________________________________________________________________
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Subject: | November List Fund Raiser |
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Road Landing |
Smokey,
I agree 100%. In fact I have a briefing I give on emergency landings and
I always recommend a road - for many reasons, one of which you mentioned.
There are very safe ways to accomplish a road landing.
Stan Sutterfield
My first choice for forced landings is a paved road rather than a fie
ld. Reason? Every RV forced landing I have helped clean up was on it's back
, trapping the pilot. Growing up around an AG strip, roads were always high
on our list as "alternate airfields" and used often.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Road Landing |
From: | Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com> |
When landing on roads, what's the trick to avoiding lines (drop lines, power
lines, telephone lines)? They are difficult to see, especially in the
shadows of the trees (a commonplace issue here in the Southeast). Coming in
at a low angle (3-4 degrees would be typical, I would think), lines would
have to be pretty far apart for you not to have to run fairly serious
"gauntlet"of them of one sort or another.
Not arguing, just wondering what the "trick" is...
Lee...
On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM, wrote:
> Smokey,
> I agree 100%. In fact I have a briefing I give on emergency landings and I
> always recommend a road - for many reasons, one of which you mentioned.
> There are very safe ways to accomplish a road landing.
> Stan Sutterfield
>
>
> My first choice for forced landings is a paved road rather than a fie
> ld. Reason? Every RV forced landing I have helped clean up was on it's back
> , trapping the pilot. Growing up around an AG strip, roads were always high
> on our list as "alternate airfields" and used often.
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Road Landing |
Lee,
Growing up around an AG strip the spray pilots always looked for wires, eve
rywhere. The trick on roads is to look for the power poles alongside, there
you will find the where the wires cross. On larger roads and interstates,
only large high tension lines cross as they are required 50 feet vertical f
or large vehicle clearance and are marked. Interstates are actually designa
ted as emergency runways and stressed for load bearing in national crisis s
cenarios, the minimum distance between overpasses is 1 mile, for a reason.
-
BTW, how's your new Rocket running?
-
Smokey
HR2
-
--- On Wed, 11/4/09, Lee Logan wrote:
From: Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing
Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 1:08 PM
When landing on roads, what's the trick to avoiding lines (drop lines, powe
r lines, telephone lines)?- They are difficult to see, especially in the
shadows of the trees (a commonplace issue here in the Southeast).- Coming
in at a low angle (3-4 degrees would be typical, I would think), lines wou
ld have to be pretty far apart for you not to have to run fairly serious "g
auntlet"of them of one sort or another.
Not arguing, just wondering what the "trick" is...
Lee...
On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM, wrote:
Smokey,
I agree 100%.- In fact I have a briefing I give on emergency landings and
I always recommend a road - for many reasons, one of which you mentioned.
- There are very safe ways to accomplish a road landing.
Stan Sutterfield
-
My first choice for forced landings is a paved road rather than a fie
ld. Reason? Every RV forced landing I have helped clean up was on it's back
, trapping the pilot. Growing up around an AG strip, roads were always high
on our list as "alternate airfields" and used often.
-
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
Subject: | Rocket Insurance |
Just a heads up.
I just got my insurance from Falcon for my Harmon Rocket II for next
year. It is underwritten by Global-AAU: the EAA program underwriter.
It states that Global will not underwrite new F-1 or Harmon Rockets as
new business.
For Liability ONLY, it increased $125 from last year.
Tom "GummiBear" Gummo
N-561FS 360 great hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
Just a quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics
Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided
for my your Contributions during this time of the year.
Your personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email
Lists and Forums completely ad-free.
Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running!
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Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
Subject: | Rocket insurance |
SNIP I just got my insurance from Falcon for my Harmon Rocket II for next
year. It is underwritten by Global-AAU: the EAA program underwriter.
It states that Global will not underwrite new F-1 or Harmon Rockets as
new business.
For Liability ONLY, it increased $125 from last year. SNIP
I just renewed my coverage through AUA and the liability only rate was $50 cheaper.
$560 for the year.
Contact http://www.auaonline.com/ and tell them that they owe me a t-shirt for plugging them online. LOL
Vince Frazier
Flyboy Accessories
3963 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-464-1839
1-888-8FLYBOY
1-888-835-9269
www.flyboyaccessories.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Road Landing |
From: | Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com> |
Smokey: That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive around this
area, I see power lines everywhere. Our major north-south highway is I-95
(or Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is very busy. Your
chances of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, but your chances of
clearing 95 unscathed are much less. The frontage road is better in that
respect and has few powerlines itself. I just don't figure I'll be so lucky
as to have an Interstate or frontage road handy when I need one!
My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and to
land beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible. That way, I
figure I've got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear
landing. I'll have to make a couple of practice passes next time I'm up to
see how easy the power lines themselves are to spot from cruising altitude
(not hard from 1,000' as I recall but normally you'd be pretty committed by
then, I would think). I would really like to be able to pick my spot early
in an engine out situation, but I don't know how absolutely practical that
is.
My Rocket is running much better. My last flight before I took it down for
2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the 320-350 range
and the oil temp at 190-195. I'm very pleased with that and assuming it
will be the same once I get it back in the air, I will quickly finish the
rest of my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime time. I've
made arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so all is well!
Have a great weekend!
Lee...
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Rocket insurance |
Where do we find AUA?
Cal
In a message dated 11/5/2009 7:29:04 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
VFrazier(at)usi.edu writes:
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A"
SNIP I just got my insurance from Falcon for my Harmon Rocket II for next
year. It is underwritten by Global-AAU: the EAA program underwriter.
It states that Global will not underwrite new F-1 or Harmon Rockets as
new business.
For Liability ONLY, it increased $125 from last year. SNIP
I just renewed my coverage through AUA and the liability only rate was $50
cheaper. $560 for the year.
Contact http://www.auaonline.com/ and tell them that they owe me a
t-shirt for plugging them online. LOL
Vince Frazier
Flyboy Accessories
3963 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-464-1839
1-888-8FLYBOY
1-888-835-9269
www.flyboyaccessories.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Road Landing |
From: | Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com> |
I have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your method o
f
success in getting yours in range?
Ernest
N540HB
On 11/5/09 8:22 AM, "Lee Logan" wrote:
> Smokey:- That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive around th
is
> area, I see power lines everywhere.- Our major north-south highway is I-9
5 (or
> Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is very busy.- Your ch
ances
> of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, but your chances of cleari
ng 95
> unscathed are much less.-- The frontage road is better in that respect an
d has
> few powerlines itself.- I just don't figure I'll be so lucky as to have a
n
> Interstate or frontage road handy when I need one!
>
> My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and to
land
> beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible.- That way, I figure
I've
> got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear landing.- I'll h
ave
> to make a couple of practice passes next time I'm up to see how easy the
power
> lines themselves are to spot from cruising altitude (not hard from 1,000'
as I
> recall but normally you'd be pretty committed by then, I would think).- I
> would really like to be able to pick my spot early in an engine out situa
tion,
> but I don't know how absolutely practical that is.
>
> My Rocket is running much better.- My last flight before I took it down f
or
> 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the 320-350 ran
ge
> and the oil temp at 190-195.- I'm very pleased with that and assuming it
will
> be the same once I get it back in the air, I will quickly finish the rest
of
> my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime time.- I've made
> arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so all is well!
>
> Have a great weekend!
>
> Lee...
>
>
> <http://www.buildersbooks.com>
om>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 11/04/09 |
From: | larry(at)ncproto.com |
I have many off-airport landings albeit under different circumstances - in flying
sailplanes cross-country. I have always landed in fields with no mishap; although
I agree with Smokey's assessment that most RV's tend to end up upside down.
For me the difference lies in the wingspan. Our sailplanes are 49 feet and
as such anything on the side of the road is cause for a groundloop. A good friend
broke his sailplane twice in this scenario. That said I now consider roads
as options while flying my Decathlon and will do so when my Rocket is in the
air. Just more info.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: Rocket-List Digest Server <rocket-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 23:58:54
Subject: Rocket-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 11/04/09
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Rocket-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Rocket-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 09-11-04&Archive=Rocket
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===============================================
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===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Rocket-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 11/04/09: 4
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:52 PM - Re: Road Landing (Speedy11(at)aol.com)
2. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: Road Landing (Lee Logan)
3. 08:56 PM - Re: Re: Road Landing (Rob Ray)
4. 10:08 PM - Rocket Insurance (Tom Gummo)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
From: Speedy11(at)aol.com
Subject: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing
Smokey,
I agree 100%. In fact I have a briefing I give on emergency landings and
I always recommend a road - for many reasons, one of which you mentioned.
There are very safe ways to accomplish a road landing.
Stan Sutterfield
My first choice for forced landings is a paved road rather than a fie
ld. Reason? Every RV forced landing I have helped clean up was on it's back
, trapping the pilot. Growing up around an AG strip, roads were always high
on our list as "alternate airfields" and used often.
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing
From: Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com>
When landing on roads, what's the trick to avoiding lines (drop lines, power
lines, telephone lines)? They are difficult to see, especially in the
shadows of the trees (a commonplace issue here in the Southeast). Coming in
at a low angle (3-4 degrees would be typical, I would think), lines would
have to be pretty far apart for you not to have to run fairly serious
"gauntlet"of them of one sort or another.
Not arguing, just wondering what the "trick" is...
Lee...
On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM, wrote:
> Smokey,
> I agree 100%. In fact I have a briefing I give on emergency landings and I
> always recommend a road - for many reasons, one of which you mentioned.
> There are very safe ways to accomplish a road landing.
> Stan Sutterfield
>
>
> My first choice for forced landings is a paved road rather than a fie
> ld. Reason? Every RV forced landing I have helped clean up was on it's back
> , trapping the pilot. Growing up around an AG strip, roads were always high
> on our list as "alternate airfields" and used often.
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing
Lee,
Growing up around an AG strip the spray pilots always looked for wires, eve
rywhere. The trick on roads is to look for the power poles alongside, there
you will find the where the wires cross. On larger roads and interstates,
only large high tension lines cross as they are required 50 feet vertical f
or large vehicle clearance and are marked. Interstates are actually designa
ted as emergency runways and stressed for load bearing in national crisis s
cenarios, the minimum distance between overpasses is 1 mile, for a reason.
-
BTW, how's your new Rocket running?
-
Smokey
HR2
-
--- On Wed, 11/4/09, Lee Logan wrote:
From: Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing
When landing on roads, what's the trick to avoiding lines (drop lines, powe
r lines, telephone lines)?- They are difficult to see, especially in the
shadows of the trees (a commonplace issue here in the Southeast).- Coming
in at a low angle (3-4 degrees would be typical, I would think), lines wou
ld have to be pretty far apart for you not to have to run fairly serious "g
auntlet"of them of one sort or another.
Not arguing, just wondering what the "trick" is...
Lee...
On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM, wrote:
Smokey,
I agree 100%.- In fact I have a briefing I give on emergency landings and
I always recommend a road - for many reasons, one of which you mentioned.
- There are very safe ways to accomplish a road landing.
Stan Sutterfield
-
My first choice for forced landings is a paved road rather than a fie
ld. Reason? Every RV forced landing I have helped clean up was on it's back
, trapping the pilot. Growing up around an AG strip, roads were always high
on our list as "alternate airfields" and used often.
-
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
From: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Insurance
Just a heads up.
I just got my insurance from Falcon for my Harmon Rocket II for next
year. It is underwritten by Global-AAU: the EAA program underwriter.
It states that Global will not underwrite new F-1 or Harmon Rockets as
new business.
For Liability ONLY, it increased $125 from last year.
Tom "GummiBear" Gummo
N-561FS 360 great hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rocket insurance |
I too use AUA, in my 20th year. absolute best in the business. Call Rob Kam
sch at 800-727-3823.
Smokey
HR2
http://www.auaonline.com/
--- On Thu, 11/5/09, CalBru(at)aol.com wrote:
From: CalBru(at)aol.com <CalBru(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket insurance
Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 6:38 AM
=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0AWhere do we find AUA?=0A-=0ACal=0A-=0A=0AIn a messa
ge dated 11/5/2009 7:29:04 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, =0AVFrazier(at)usi.edu
writes:=0A--> =0A Rocket-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" =0A
SNIP I just got my insurance from Falcon for =0A my Harmon Rocket II for n
ext
year.- It is underwritten by Global-AAU: =0A the EAA program underwriter
.-
It states that Global will not =0A underwrite new F-1 or Harmon Rockets as
new business.
For =0A Liability ONLY, it increased $125 from last year. SNIP
I just renewed =0A my coverage through AUA and the liability only rate was
$50 cheaper.- =0A $560 for the year.
Contact http://www.auaonline.com/- and tell =0A them that they owe me a
t-shirt for plugging them online.- =0A LOL
Vince Frazier
Flyboy Accessories
3963 Caborn =0A Road
Mount Vernon, IN =0A 47620
812-464-1839
1-888-8FLYBOY
1-888-835-9269
www.flyboyac=====================
==nbsp; =0A - - - -- (And Get Some AWESOME FREE =0A =0A to f
ind =0A Gifts =0Atric =0Are =0Ab =0Ak you for =0Ap; - =0A - - -
- - - - - - -Matt Dralle, =0A List =0A========
================ =0A the =0Aties =0ADay =0A
======================= -
- - - - -- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =0A========
================
===============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Road Landing |
Awesome! Come see me here at the Swamp sometime!
SmokeyHR2@FD33
--- On Thu, 11/5/09, Lee Logan wrote:
From: Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing
Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 5:22 AM
Smokey:- That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive around th
is area, I see power lines everywhere.- Our major north-south highway is
I-95 (or Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is very busy.
- Your chances of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, but your ch
ances of clearing 95 unscathed are much less.-- The frontage road is be
tter in that respect and has few powerlines itself.- I just don't figure
I'll be so lucky as to have an Interstate or frontage road handy when I nee
d one!
=0A
My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and to la
nd beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible.- That way, I fig
ure I've got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear landing.
- I'll have to make a couple of practice passes next time I'm up to see h
ow easy the power lines themselves are to spot from cruising altitude (not
hard from 1,000' as I recall but normally you'd be pretty committed by then
, I would think).- I would really like to be able to pick my spot early i
n an engine out situation, but I don't know how absolutely practical that i
s.
=0A
My Rocket is running much better.- My last flight before I took it down f
or 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the 320-350 ra
nge and the oil temp at 190-195.- I'm very pleased with that and assuming
it will be the same once I get it back in the air, I will quickly finish t
he rest of my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime time.-
I've made arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so all is we
ll!
=0A
Have a great weekend!
Lee...
===============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Sprayers(at)aol.com |
This high temp. ---have you checked your timing (mags)...i see you
have10-1 pistons. barrett in tulsa times his engines with these pistons at
23deg.
(your c4b5) plate on eng says 25 deg. look at the 8.7 to 1 pistons in lyc
.
290 hp engines (most are 20deg).good luck _sprayers(at)aol.com_
(mailto:sprayers(at)aol.com)
In a message dated 11/5/2009 7:25:18 P.M. Central Standard Time,
smokyray(at)rocketmail.com writes:
Ernest,
Let me know how it works out, I will take a photo of my lower cowl in cas
e
you want to compare...:)
Smokey
--- On Thu, 11/5/09, Ernest Hale wrote:
From: Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: High Temps!
Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 2:25 PM
Thanks Smokey, I will look at that, I also have the stock Harmon Cowl.
My
compression is the same as yours as well, hopefully I can get it running
like yours.
Ernest
On 11/5/09 4:34 PM, "Rob Ray" wrote:
Ernest,
An aeronautical engineer once told me that exit area should exceed inlet
area by 1.5%. I carefully measured my inlets and my exit area and ended
up
finding my exhaust pipes ate up alot of my exit area. I started by cuttin
g
quite a bit off my lower cowl in the shape of a U with the bottom of the
U
even with the lower engine mount tube.I also moved my oil cooler to a 30
degree angle and went to #8 lines. BTW, I have a stock Harmon cowl with
a
C4B5 injected with 10.0 Compression, Ly-Con cyllinders.
After the modifications I cruise now at 9500' at 20"/2350 RPM with 180
oil, 310 average on all 6, 10.5 GPH, 188 Knots TAS. If I run 21 Squared
down
low my cyllinders run at 285, oil at 160 and fuel flow at 6.9 GPH. Hope
that
helps.
Smokey
HR2
--- On Thu, 11/5/09, Ernest Hale wrote:
From: Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing
Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 8:06 AM
Huge is I am putting 18 gph through my engine at 6,000=99 to mainta
in a CHT
of 415 or so. On climb out I can hit 440 in minutes. I have replaced th
e
baffling, reconstructed the bottom of the top cowling to get better flow,
placed a lip on the bottom of the engine outlet to promote a suction to
help
pull air through the engine. We are about to build extensions onto the
air inlets in the front of the cowling to hopefully force more air throug
h.
I was having a bad time with oil temps earlier and fixed that by adding
another oil cooler so now I have 2 of those.
Any help would be appreciated.
Ernest
On 11/5/09 10:41 AM, "Michael W Stewart" wrote
:
Ernest.
What is Huge?
What is High?
What have you done to this point to solve the problem?
With this information we can begin to help you.
There are a hundred things to list to do, We should start with where you
are and what you have done.
Mike
do not archive
Ernest Hale ---11/05/2009 09:59:18 AM---I have a huge problem with high
cylinder head temps, what was your method of success in getting your
From:
Ernest Hale
To:
Date:
11/05/2009 09:59 AM
Subject:
Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing
Sent by:
owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
____________________________________
I have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your method
of success in getting yours in range?
Ernest
N540HB
On 11/5/09 8:22 AM, "Lee Logan" > wrote:
Smokey: That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive around
this area, I see power lines everywhere. Our major north-south highway
is
I-95 (or Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is very busy.
Your chances of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, but your chan
ces
of clearing 95 unscathed are much less. The frontage road is better in
that respect and has few powerlines itself. I just don't figure I'll be
so
lucky as to have an Interstate or frontage road handy when I need one!
My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and to
land beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible. That way, I
figure I've got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear land
ing.
I'll have to make a couple of practice passes next time I'm up to see how
easy the power lines themselves are to spot from cruising altitude (not
hard from 1,000' as I recall but normally you'd be pretty committed by th
en, I
would think). I would really like to be able to pick my spot early in
an
engine out situation, but I don't know how absolutely practical that is.
My Rocket is running much better. My last flight before I took it down
for 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the 320-350
range and the oil temp at 190-195. I'm very pleased with that and assumin
g it
will be the same once I get it back in the air, I will quickly finish th
e
rest of my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime time.
I've made arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so all is
well!
Have a great weekend!
Lee...
onth --
me AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Road Landing |
From: | Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com> |
Ernest (Sorry this is so long, but maybe it will help and will be worth your
time to read it): I believe it is a settled fact that Rockets have more
than enough inlet and exit area to cool just fine. If you have a good
cooler, good baffling, smooth inlets, an adequate outlet, and no
engine/oil/magneto/sparkplug/FI issues---it will (or can be made to) run
cool, if it is properly broken in. In my case, I used the RV-10 baffling
kit which was a good start but installed "stock" wasn't just right for my
engine.
I started with 400+ cylinder head temps and 240+ oil. So, I created a
systematic plan to go though the cooling system an item at a time.
Developed a "root cause" analysis and stuck with it. I learned not to take
anything for granted and question everything. The cooling system on any
aircraft engine is truly a "system", everything is interrelated. I got
countless recommendations from the usual suspects at the airport and all the
ideas were good---the invariable problem with them was that they didn't know
what was wrong with MY airplane any more than I did. "Check your timing, my
uncle did and it fixed his problem", "You've got fouled plugs, my cousin
checked his when his engine ran hot and sure enough, 3 of them were fouled",
etc. etc. I heard that constantly. If anyone had ever actually diagnosed
my airplane to a real-world root cause, the solution would have been
obvious. Solutions are easy, it's figuring out what's wrong that is
hard---and here is the major pain in all this: Unless you find an obvious
smoking gun, you may have to do like I did---just keep modifying and
verifying until the temps go down. Change things one at a time; whatever
doesn't improve things, change it back.
I went through the vernatherm, the cooler, the connections, the oil itself,
the filter, the pump, etc. I swapped vernatherms, tested vernatherms, honed
the vernatherm seat, even flew it with a blanked off vernatherm (temp went
up). I flipped the cooler (to eliminate air pockets), verified the oil
lines were connected to the right openings in the accessory case, tested
both oil temp gages, tested both oil pressure gages, flow tested the (brand
new Stewart Warner) cooler and lines, drained the oil to verify the right
amount was on board, swapped oil filters, used a laser temp gage to verify
consistent oil temps throughout the engine to "prove" I had proper
engine-wide flow (sump, hoses, front, back, sides, top and bottom of the
cooler, cylinder heads, barrels, crankcase, accessory case) etc. Over time,
I decided it was not the oil system.
Went through engine baffles in detail and sealed everything. No leak is too
small to fill with RTV. CHT's dropped 10 degrees; reprofiled upper cowl
ramps, temps dropped 5 degrees. Cut down the baffle plates in front of
cylinders 1 and 2 incrementally, and their temps went down 3-5 degrees each
time. Ended up with no baffles in front of 1 and 2 above the inlet ramps.
Incrementally removed trailing edge of aft lower cowl (the cowling inlet
opening/exit opening areas in effect, "throttle" the airflow through the
cowling). Hint: The air going through cowling does not heat up very much in
the process of cooling the engine (8-10 degrees, I'm told), it's FLOW that
makes the system work. Oil temp came down along with these changes but not
as fast. Sometimes very modest changes to the baffles (sealing, trimming)
and the exit/outlet size, made large differences to the temps I saw. The
oil temps came down too with the plummeting CHT's but still stayed way too
high for me.
Decided the oil cooler wasn't getting its share of the flow. My cooler was
fed by a 4" opening in the right aft baffle feeding through a smooth silicon
rubber hose. Added small baffles to channel air into the oil cooler opening
(temps dropped 5 degrees), added 3" under-cowl hose to route air from left
cowling inlet direct to the cooler (no effect/removed it). Removed baffle
elements directly in front of the cylinder *barrels* (the baffles in front
of the cylinder heads were already long gone). Oil temps went up. Added
"flow" baffles in front of barrells angled back toward rear (instead of the
vertical ones that came with the RV-10 baffle kit). Oil temps back down
slightly but still high.
Decided that the 4" oil cooler opening was not big enough. Fabricated and
installed a full cooler sized opening and air path. This took the oil
cooler inlet area from just over 12 sq. in. to 24. I figured this was the
"big fix" the oil system needed to finally fall into line with the
cylinders. Didn't work; no change in oil temps but cylinder temps went back
up (marginally). Fabricated and installed a plenum on the back side of the
oil cooler feeding a 4" hose routed down to the lower cowl outlet. Theory
was that backflow/backpressure in the lower cowling was inhibiting flow
through the cooler. Plan was to go full size with an all new plenum and
outlet if there was any improvement at all. There wasn't any.
What the heck? So... I went through the engine: Changed timing down by 5
degrees; whole system got hotter and power seemed "off". Changed it back.
Pulled all the plugs (they were fine); compression checked fine.
Okay. If the engine is good and the oil system is good and the inlets and
outlet are reasonably close, the cylinder head temps are (now) low, but the
oil temp is still above 210 in cruise (at least it is down from the original
240+), what does that leave? This cowling and oil cooler combination is
working fine on other Rockets with smaller oil cooler inlets. Decided I
would reinstate my flight test program and "live" with the 210 degree oil
temp. OAT's had been highish all summer (80 degrees plus, at altitude). My
DAR buddy was convinced that the engine was already broken in and running as
cool as it was going to run in and of itself. I wasn't so sure. Decided to
try one more thing before continuing the flight test program. I cut a small
NACA scoop in the lower cowl centerline about 2/3 of the way aft of the fuel
injection inlet to the trailing edge of the cowl. It didn't go anywhere,
just brought additional air in from the outside and exhausted it immediately
out of the lower cowl a few inches in front of the lower trailing edge lip.
The theory was that that little "tornado" of air would entrain the slow
moving air in the lower cowl and facilitate it in moving more rapidly to the
cowling exit. Flew the airplane and bingo! The oil temp dropped to 190 on
both gages (I have two independent oil temp and pressure gages). BUT: OAT
was down to 45 degrees that day. Did the NACA scoop really work that well,
did the engine just break in, or was the OAT effect that dramatic? I only
got to fly it once like this before business trips intervened.
In the meantime I had to pull my engine monitor and ship it back for
recalibration (unrelated to my cooling problems). Down for three weeks.
Finally flew it today for the second time since the NACA scoop was
installed. OAT up to 58, oil temp down to 185! What finally did the trick?
I don't know yet but I will keep you informed. The airport closes tomorrow
for 2-3 weeks for resurfacing. I moved my Rocket to a nearby field though
so I can continue my test flights. First up: Seal the NACA scoop and see
what happens. I will do that Saturday. I'm hoping for a couple of hotter
days, so I can gage a broader range of OAT effects. Could be that my engine
in fact just broke in and that was the "remainder" of the problem all along;
we'll know in a few days.
Honest, sorry for the long post but I wanted to get this all straight in my
own mind too. Hope those who are facing the same problems will benefit too.
Regards,
Lee...
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Road Landing |
From: | Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com> |
Great information, thanks for all of the details. We are test flying some
modifications today and I will post this weekend to let everyone know what
we did and how it worked.
Ernest
On 11/5/09 11:18 PM, "Lee Logan" wrote:
> Ernest (Sorry this is so long, but maybe it will help and will be worth y
our
> time to read it):- I believe it is a settled fact that Rockets have more
than
> enough inlet and exit area to cool just fine.- If you have a good cooler,
good
> baffling, smooth inlets, an adequate outlet, and no
> engine/oil/magneto/sparkplug/FI issues---it will (or can be made to) run
cool,
> if it is properly broken in.- In my case, I used the RV-10 baffling kit w
hich
> was a good start but installed "stock" wasn't just right for my engine.
>
> I started with 400+ cylinder head temps and 240+ oil.- So, I created a
> systematic plan to go though the cooling system an item at a time.- Devel
oped
> a "root cause" analysis and stuck with it.- I learned not to take anythin
g for
> granted and question everything.- The cooling system on any aircraft engi
ne is
> truly a "system", everything is interrelated.- I got countless recommenda
tions
> from the usual suspects at the airport and all the ideas were good---the
> invariable problem with them was that they didn't know what was wrong wit
h MY
> airplane any more than I did.- "Check your timing, my uncle did and it fi
xed
> his problem", "You've got fouled plugs, my cousin checked his when his en
gine
> ran hot and sure enough, 3 of them were fouled", etc. etc.- I heard that
> constantly.- If anyone had ever actually diagnosed my airplane to a real-
world
> root cause, the solution would have been obvious.- Solutions are easy, it
's
> figuring out what's wrong that is hard---and here is the major pain in al
l
> this:- Unless you find an obvious smoking gun, you may have to do like I
> did---just keep modifying and verifying until the temps go down.- Change
> things one at a time; whatever doesn't improve things, change it back.
>
> I went through the vernatherm, the cooler, the connections, the oil itsel
f,
> the filter, the pump, etc.- I swapped vernatherms, tested vernatherms, ho
ned
> the vernatherm seat, even flew it with a blanked off vernatherm (temp wen
t
> up).- I flipped the cooler (to eliminate air pockets), verified the oil l
ines
> were connected to the right openings in the accessory case, tested both o
il
> temp gages, tested both oil pressure gages, flow tested the (brand new St
ewart
> Warner) cooler and lines, drained the oil to verify the right amount was
on
> board, swapped oil filters, used a laser temp gage to verify consistent o
il
> temps throughout the engine to "prove" I had proper engine-wide flow (sum
p,
> hoses, front, back, sides, top and bottom of the cooler, cylinder heads,
> barrels, crankcase, accessory case) etc.- Over time, I decided it was not
the
> oil system.
>
> Went through engine baffles in detail and sealed everything. No leak is t
oo
> small to fill with RTV.- CHT's dropped 10 degrees; reprofiled upper cowl
> ramps, temps dropped 5 degrees.- Cut down the baffle plates in front of
> cylinders 1 and 2 incrementally, and their temps went down 3-5 degrees ea
ch
> time.- Ended up with no baffles in front of 1 and 2 above the inlet ramps
.-
> Incrementally removed trailing edge of aft lower cowl (the cowling inlet
> opening/exit opening areas in effect, "throttle" the airflow through the
> cowling).- Hint: The air going through cowling does not heat up very much
in
> the process of cooling the engine (8-10 degrees, I'm told), it's FLOW tha
t
> makes the system work.- Oil temp came down along with these changes but n
ot as
> fast.- Sometimes very modest changes to the baffles (sealing, trimming) a
nd
> the exit/outlet size, made large differences to the temps I saw.- The oil
> temps came down too with the plummeting CHT's but still stayed way too hi
gh
> for me.
>
> Decided the oil cooler wasn't getting its share of the flow.- My cooler w
as
> fed by a 4" opening in the right aft baffle feeding through a smooth sili
con
> rubber hose.- Added small baffles to channel air into the oil cooler open
ing
> (temps dropped 5 degrees), added 3" under-cowl hose to route air from lef
t
> cowling inlet direct to the cooler (no effect/removed it).- Removed baffl
e
> elements directly in front of the cylinder barrels (the baffles in front
of
> the cylinder heads were already long gone).- Oil temps went up.- Added "f
low"
> baffles in front of barrells angled back toward rear (instead of the vert
ical
> ones that came with the RV-10 baffle kit).- Oil temps back down slightly
but
> still high.
>
> Decided that the 4" oil cooler opening was not big enough. Fabricated and
> installed a full cooler sized opening and air path.- This took the oil co
oler
> inlet area from just over 12 sq. in. to 24.- I figured this was the "big
fix"
> the oil system needed to finally fall into line with the cylinders.- Didn
't
> work; no change in oil temps but cylinder temps went back up (marginally)
.-
> Fabricated and installed a plenum on the back side of the oil cooler feed
ing a
> 4" hose routed down to the lower cowl outlet.- Theory was that
> backflow/backpressure in the lower cowling was inhibiting flow through th
e
> cooler.- Plan was to go full size with an all new plenum and outlet if th
ere
> was any improvement at all.- There wasn't any. -
>
> What the heck?- So... I went through the engine: Changed timing down by 5
> degrees; whole system got hotter and power seemed "off".- Changed it back
.-
> Pulled all the plugs (they were fine); compression checked fine.
>
> Okay.- If the engine is good and the oil system is good and the inlets an
d
> outlet are reasonably close, the cylinder head temps are (now) low, but t
he
> oil temp is still above 210 in cruise (at least it is down from the origi
nal
> 240+), what does that leave?- This cowling and oil cooler combination is
> working fine on other Rockets with smaller oil cooler inlets.- Decided I
would
> reinstate my flight test program and "live" with the 210 degree oil temp.
-
> OAT's had been highish all summer (80 degrees plus, at altitude).- My DAR
> buddy was convinced that the engine was already broken in and running as
cool
> as it was going to run in and of itself.- I wasn't so sure.- Decided to t
ry
> one more thing before continuing the flight test program.- I cut a small
NACA
> scoop in the lower cowl centerline about 2/3 of the way aft of the fuel
> injection inlet to the trailing edge of the cowl.- It didn't go anywhere,
just
> brought additional air in from the outside and exhausted it immediately o
ut of
> the lower cowl a few inches in front of the lower trailing edge lip.- The
> theory was that that little "tornado" of air would entrain the slow movin
g air
> in the lower cowl and facilitate it in moving more rapidly to the cowling
> exit.- Flew the airplane and bingo!- The oil temp dropped to 190 on both
gages
> (I have two independent oil temp and pressure gages).- BUT: OAT was down
to 45
> degrees that day.- Did the NACA scoop really work that well, did the engi
ne
> just break in, or was the OAT effect that dramatic?- I only got to fly it
once
> like this before business trips intervened.
>
> In the meantime I had to pull my engine monitor and ship it back for
> recalibration (unrelated to my cooling problems).- Down for three weeks.-
> Finally flew it today for the second time since the NACA scoop was instal
led.-
> OAT up to 58, oil temp down to 185!- What finally did the trick? I don't
know
> yet but I will keep you informed.- The airport closes tomorrow for 2-3 we
eks
> for resurfacing.- I moved my Rocket to a nearby field though so I can con
tinue
> my test flights.- First up: Seal the NACA scoop and see what happens.- I
will
> do that Saturday.- I'm hoping for a couple of hotter days, so I can gage
a
> broader range of OAT effects.- Could be that my engine in fact just broke
in
> and that was the "remainder" of the problem all along; we'll know in a fe
w
> days.
>
> Honest, sorry for the long post but I wanted to get this all straight in
my
> own mind too.- Hope those who are facing the same problems will benefit t
oo.
>
> Regards,
>
> Lee...
>
>
> <http://www.buildersbooks.com>
om>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net> |
Subject: | Re: Road Landing |
Not a Rocket but pretty close so I'll throw my nickel in the ring.
Had an engine out in my RV3 several yrs ago, was in the pattern but due
to altitude, wind, runway configuration ect decided to use the County
road that runs next to the Airpark (54T) No traffic so was only
concerned with powerlines as I got low. Had decided that two things were
NOT going to happen, no stalling allowed and no running into any
powerlines. As I got close to the road on final discovered 6 sets of
wires running across the road in my path, altitude and speed allowed me
to overfly 5 of them , as I approached the last set made the decision to
fly over #5 and under #6. Prolly could have overflown #6 too but
speed/altitude were was depleting. Remembered the 2 rules vividly.
Nice plan but the devil is in the details, plenty of clearance on the
wires but flew the plane into the road, folded the gear up to the point
that the wheels dented the wing tanks, slid to a stop, hopped out
(expecting a fire) before the plane stopped. no fire, tanks intact but
dented.
Half a dozen spectators stopped quickly, one of them took me to my
house 2 blocks away where I got my truck and boat trailer, 10-12 of us
lifted the plane onto the trailer and I had it locked up in my hangar 20
min after touchdown, no TV, no newspaper, sheriff, FAA etc. WHEW !!
I had flown the RV about 500 hrs and had practiced engine outs many
times with an idling engine.
There is a BIG difference between idling and engine stopped in sink
rate. BIG difference.
Had a sore butt for a month and the seat belt bruises were world class
but the rest was just aluminum distress which is easier to fix than
compressed vertebrae. Lucky that day !
Still don't understand why I flew it into the road, have done a couple
hundred of beach, off airport landings in the RV prior to that and was
comfortable (maybe too comfortable) in the airplane.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Wallis <brianpwallis(at)hotmail.com> |
Please remove me from the list
Best,
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
Great post Lee,
I had similar experience with my early flights and even had to land 5
minutes after takeoff as my CHTs soared into the high 400s.
I have 10:1 forged racing pistons with ceramic heads and moly b coated
sides. My engine took 140 hours to finally break the last cylinder in.
Until it is broke in, temps are a big problem. You found many ways to
mitigate the problem but I'll bet your engine is still just running hot
due to a slow and long breakin period. Consider this, the Rocket is so
light that the engine does not have enough load on it to do its breakin
in the normal amount of time. I started running mine 24" at 2200 rpm in
an attempt to load it up and that is when the final cylinder broke in.
I also reduced my timing to 22 deg BTDC to help with the increased
compression.
Additionally, some local success has be realized by adding a small
downward lip on the aft edge of the lower cowl to create a low pressure
area where the cooling air is exiting the cowl. This seems to
accellerate that cooling air which then allows more air to flow through
your cowl. Jim Winnings did this with success. I was about to try it
when my engine normalize.
My normal numbers are 325 or so on CHTs and I lean to 50 deg LOP after
level off and a few potatoes for CHT cooling and stabilizing.
Hang in there, you will enjoy it much more when you don't have to worry
so much about engine temps.
Jim Stone
Louisville KY
Friend of Ben Cunningham
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Logan
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 11:18 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing
Ernest (Sorry this is so long, but maybe it will help and will be
worth your time to read it): I believe it is a settled fact that
Rockets have more than enough inlet and exit area to cool just fine. If
you have a good cooler, good baffling, smooth inlets, an adequate
outlet, and no engine/oil/magneto/sparkplug/FI issues---it will (or can
be made to) run cool, if it is properly broken in. In my case, I used
the RV-10 baffling kit which was a good start but installed "stock"
wasn't just right for my engine.
I started with 400+ cylinder head temps and 240+ oil. So, I created a
systematic plan to go though the cooling system an item at a time.
Developed a "root cause" analysis and stuck with it. I learned not to
take anything for granted and question everything. The cooling system
on any aircraft engine is truly a "system", everything is interrelated.
I got countless recommendations from the usual suspects at the airport
and all the ideas were good---the invariable problem with them was that
they didn't know what was wrong with MY airplane any more than I did.
"Check your timing, my uncle did and it fixed his problem", "You've got
fouled plugs, my cousin checked his when his engine ran hot and sure
enough, 3 of them were fouled", etc. etc. I heard that constantly. If
anyone had ever actually diagnosed my airplane to a real-world root
cause, the solution would have been obvious. Solutions are easy, it's
figuring out what's wrong that is hard---and here is the major pain in
all this: Unless you find an obvious smoking gun, you may have to do
like I did---just keep modifying and verifying until the temps go down.
Change things one at a time; whatever doesn't improve things, change it
back.
I went through the vernatherm, the cooler, the connections, the oil
itself, the filter, the pump, etc. I swapped vernatherms, tested
vernatherms, honed the vernatherm seat, even flew it with a blanked off
vernatherm (temp went up). I flipped the cooler (to eliminate air
pockets), verified the oil lines were connected to the right openings in
the accessory case, tested both oil temp gages, tested both oil pressure
gages, flow tested the (brand new Stewart Warner) cooler and lines,
drained the oil to verify the right amount was on board, swapped oil
filters, used a laser temp gage to verify consistent oil temps
throughout the engine to "prove" I had proper engine-wide flow (sump,
hoses, front, back, sides, top and bottom of the cooler, cylinder heads,
barrels, crankcase, accessory case) etc. Over time, I decided it was
not the oil system.
Went through engine baffles in detail and sealed everything. No leak
is too small to fill with RTV. CHT's dropped 10 degrees; reprofiled
upper cowl ramps, temps dropped 5 degrees. Cut down the baffle plates
in front of cylinders 1 and 2 incrementally, and their temps went down
3-5 degrees each time. Ended up with no baffles in front of 1 and 2
above the inlet ramps. Incrementally removed trailing edge of aft lower
cowl (the cowling inlet opening/exit opening areas in effect, "throttle"
the airflow through the cowling). Hint: The air going through cowling
does not heat up very much in the process of cooling the engine (8-10
degrees, I'm told), it's FLOW that makes the system work. Oil temp came
down along with these changes but not as fast. Sometimes very modest
changes to the baffles (sealing, trimming) and the exit/outlet size,
made large differences to the temps I saw. The oil temps came down too
with the plummeting CHT's but still stayed way too high for me.
Decided the oil cooler wasn't getting its share of the flow. My
cooler was fed by a 4" opening in the right aft baffle feeding through a
smooth silicon rubber hose. Added small baffles to channel air into the
oil cooler opening (temps dropped 5 degrees), added 3" under-cowl hose
to route air from left cowling inlet direct to the cooler (no
effect/removed it). Removed baffle elements directly in front of the
cylinder barrels (the baffles in front of the cylinder heads were
already long gone). Oil temps went up. Added "flow" baffles in front
of barrells angled back toward rear (instead of the vertical ones that
came with the RV-10 baffle kit). Oil temps back down slightly but still
high.
Decided that the 4" oil cooler opening was not big enough. Fabricated
and installed a full cooler sized opening and air path. This took the
oil cooler inlet area from just over 12 sq. in. to 24. I figured this
was the "big fix" the oil system needed to finally fall into line with
the cylinders. Didn't work; no change in oil temps but cylinder temps
went back up (marginally). Fabricated and installed a plenum on the
back side of the oil cooler feeding a 4" hose routed down to the lower
cowl outlet. Theory was that backflow/backpressure in the lower cowling
was inhibiting flow through the cooler. Plan was to go full size with
an all new plenum and outlet if there was any improvement at all. There
wasn't any.
What the heck? So... I went through the engine: Changed timing down
by 5 degrees; whole system got hotter and power seemed "off". Changed
it back. Pulled all the plugs (they were fine); compression checked
fine.
Okay. If the engine is good and the oil system is good and the inlets
and outlet are reasonably close, the cylinder head temps are (now) low,
but the oil temp is still above 210 in cruise (at least it is down from
the original 240+), what does that leave? This cowling and oil cooler
combination is working fine on other Rockets with smaller oil cooler
inlets. Decided I would reinstate my flight test program and "live"
with the 210 degree oil temp. OAT's had been highish all summer (80
degrees plus, at altitude). My DAR buddy was convinced that the engine
was already broken in and running as cool as it was going to run in and
of itself. I wasn't so sure. Decided to try one more thing before
continuing the flight test program. I cut a small NACA scoop in the
lower cowl centerline about 2/3 of the way aft of the fuel injection
inlet to the trailing edge of the cowl. It didn't go anywhere, just
brought additional air in from the outside and exhausted it immediately
out of the lower cowl a few inches in front of the lower trailing edge
lip. The theory was that that little "tornado" of air would entrain the
slow moving air in the lower cowl and facilitate it in moving more
rapidly to the cowling exit. Flew the airplane and bingo! The oil temp
dropped to 190 on both gages (I have two independent oil temp and
pressure gages). BUT: OAT was down to 45 degrees that day. Did the
NACA scoop really work that well, did the engine just break in, or was
the OAT effect that dramatic? I only got to fly it once like this
before business trips intervened.
In the meantime I had to pull my engine monitor and ship it back for
recalibration (unrelated to my cooling problems). Down for three weeks.
Finally flew it today for the second time since the NACA scoop was
installed. OAT up to 58, oil temp down to 185! What finally did the
trick? I don't know yet but I will keep you informed. The airport
closes tomorrow for 2-3 weeks for resurfacing. I moved my Rocket to a
nearby field though so I can continue my test flights. First up: Seal
the NACA scoop and see what happens. I will do that Saturday. I'm
hoping for a couple of hotter days, so I can gage a broader range of OAT
effects. Could be that my engine in fact just broke in and that was the
"remainder" of the problem all along; we'll know in a few days.
Honest, sorry for the long post but I wanted to get this all straight
in my own mind too. Hope those who are facing the same problems will
benefit too.
Regards,
Lee...
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | And a teeny bit more on road and off-airport landings from |
another who's done it...
From: | "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" <andrew(at)nzactive.com> |
....if John's was a nickel, here's my 2c worth...
I've had 2 engine failures in my RV4 (problem now traced & fixed - old
style carb & inlet meant ineffective carb heat) and have landed on a
road once, as a precautionary measure due bad weather, but no engine or
airframe problems, in the Rocket.
I was trained to choose fields over roads, and I think, in general,
that's a wise policy. Reasons include
- wires, which are invisible from afar
- roads can be very narrow & curved, plus sloped, which can mean a loss
of directional control leads to going off the road and...
- hitting poles etc
- traffic
I think it's worth making a distinction bw landing on a US-style
freeway, and landing on a backcountry road. Certainly an empty-ish
freeway would be very tempting. With heavy traffic, not so much.
Backcountry road? They can be VERY narrow, not necessarily straight, and
are often strewn with obstacles, ditches beside them, and all manner of
dangerous things. In an engine failure situation, I'm more concerned
about finding somewhere flat & obstacle free (& WIRE free!!) than saving
the aircraft, and in general, I would take a field over a backcountry
road, nearly every time, UNLESS it's a autobahn/freeway, I could be
reasonably sure about wires, and the traffic is not too bad. I think
it's really important to remember that if the engine has quit, the
aircraft is expendable, getting in trouble with authorities is
irelevant, and saving oneself & one's passengers MUST be the
highest/only priority. The aircraft has already let you down at that
stage, so it's expendable. I reckon it's worth thinking about that on
the ground, in advance, so there's no hesitation if the decision ever
had to be made for real.
It's true that RV4s and other taildraggers can overturn easily on rough
surfaces - Rockets even more so - but my exerience of exactly that
happening, on a field, was that a lot of speed was bled off before that
happening. Touch down at, say, 50 knots...and the kinetic energy
absorbed by the first few feet of rollout, and the overturn itself,
means it can happen at pretty low speed, say 30 knots or less, making
the overturn a very survivable event.
I reckon there's also worthwhile distinction between having to do all
this because of engine failure, and a precautionary landing with a
properly functioning aircraft. In the former case, you're committed,
can't overshoot, etc, and in nearly all cases of engine failure I'd take
a field, unless I was REALLY sure that the road had no wires, was wide
enough, etc. (ie, prior local knowledge). In the latter case, with
plenty of time & ability to reconnoitre, even to signal to someone on
the ground to block the road, by doing dummy approaches and hoping
someone cottons on to your intent...... a road, with its reliable
surface and lower chance of tipping upside down, is more appealing, and
you have the TIME to check for wires and stuff.
Also worth bearing in mind the kind of landing to make - the RV4, and to
a lesser degree the Rocket, touches down pretty slow in a 3-point
attitude. It's easy to accidentally carry a bit of extra airspeed in
these situations, which leads to a wheeler landing, and that extra speed
will make an overturn more likely. So it's a 3-pointer, in most cases,
with full flap of course.
And, finally, when the Big Silence happens for real, it's hard to be
entirely calm and rational. Roads "feel" safer, in part because of their
familiarity, but I think it would be easy to miss wires, poles etc when
the chips are down and the adrenalin starts flowing. Fields leave more
margin, if dead sticking an aircraft very precisely into a very small
space is not something one practices every day, and if fear, lack of
currency, or whatever, means one doesn't do it perfectly. (Which is to
be expected!!)
Bottom line is, nearly all engine failure situations are survivable,
even walk-away-able from, IF one can get the aircraft into the beginning
of a field or other flat area, at minimum airspeed and virtually zero
ROD at touch down. It's the solid ojects that'll hurt ya - and there are
a lot of those around roads.
a
PS One thing I've noticed - quite a few RV4s and Rockets seem to fly
around with no rollbar. ("Rollover bar", in American-speak?). No
criticism or controvery-sparking intended in any of this, but
personally, I won't fly without one - a good, solid bar which matches
the interior shape of the canopy (ie, a broad inverted "U" shape) is, I
reckon, the best neck-saving, anti-engine-failure insurance going.
I hope that's maybe useful to someone, someday.
a
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: rocket cooling |
From: | Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com> |
Jim: Good to hear from you and thanks for checking in. Be sure to say hello
and Happy Birthday to Bosco for me. Great guy!! Remind him he promised to
show up here in his -7 one of these days.
BTW, I agree with your analysis...in fact, though I didn't mention it, I
installed a small external lip on my lower cowl exit also. It worked just
as you advertise in your email. I didn't want it to be permanent
(aesthetics), so cut another 1/2" to 1" off the cowl trailing edge
(eliminating the lip) and that produced the same reduction in temperatures.
Stuck with that.
The other issue you raised was break-in. I was never convinced that my
engine had gone "over the top" all the way to break-in as I was being told
by others. Not only is my engine is an interesting hybrid (IO-540K1G5 case
and crank, with ECi parallel valve cylinders and 9,5:1 forged pistons) that
was put together for my by my friend Bart Dalton in Oklahoma. He suggested
this engine "mixture" as being super strong, powerful, and reliable. I'm
pretty sure he is exactly right. I started it from day one on Phillips X/C
20W50 and just couldn't see how it could be broken in in only 15-18 hours.
I will close up the NACA scoop tomorrow and see if there is any difference
in oil temps. My cylinders are now running in the low 300's at cruise.
I don't have the injectors sorted out on mine yet, so I'm not where you are
on LOP, but I can pull it back pretty seriously and it still runs well. I'm
a gallon or better apart cylinder to cylinder going over peak, so I've got
some work to do there.
Regards and thanks for the info,
Lee...
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Jim Stone wrote:
> Great post Lee,
>
> I had similar experience with my early flights and even had to land 5
> minutes after takeoff as my CHTs soared into the high 400s.
> I have 10:1 forged racing pistons with ceramic heads and moly b coated
> sides. My engine took 140 hours to finally break the last cylinder in.
> Until it is broke in, temps are a big problem. You found many ways to
> mitigate the problem but I'll bet your engine is still just running hot due
> to a slow and long breakin period. Consider this, the Rocket is so light
> that the engine does not have enough load on it to do its breakin in the
> normal amount of time. I started running mine 24" at 2200 rpm in an attempt
> to load it up and that is when the final cylinder broke in. I also reduced
> my timing to 22 deg BTDC to help with the increased compression.
> Additionally, some local success has be realized by adding a small downward
> lip on the aft edge of the lower cowl to create a low pressure area where
> the cooling air is exiting the cowl. This seems to accellerate that cooling
> air which then allows more air to flow through your cowl. Jim Winnings did
> this with success. I was about to try it when my engine normalize.
> My normal numbers are 325 or so on CHTs and I lean to 50 deg LOP after
> level off and a few potatoes for CHT cooling and stabilizing.
> Hang in there, you will enjoy it much more when you don't have to worry so
> much about engine temps.
>
> Jim Stone
> Louisville KY
> Friend of Ben Cunningham
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)amtelecom.net> |
It is nice to see some action on the rocket list! Engine
cooling,
especially with rockets, has been something that I have been working on
for
quite a few years on quite a few planes. My focus has not only been to
properly cool the engine but to do so without increasing drag. If you
open
the bottom of the cowling you will, usually, improve cooling. However
if
not done properly this will also increase drag and hence reduce speed.
Yes
I know that there will be those that say that they have not noticed any
degradation of speed but that has not been my experience.
Lay on your back under your airplane and look up at the
firewall.
If you can see the firewall you have increased the drag of your
airplane.
The air exiting the cowling is pushing down that firewall and creating
turbulence with the rest of the exiting air and the outside air that is
rushing past the cowling. If you need more opening it would be better
to
drop the floor of the cowling and extend it aft. Yes this is more work
but
what it does, is to get the air exiting the cowling going in the same
direction as the air going past the airplane. Internal ductwork in the
lower cowling and cleaning up the outlet area can also improve flow and
reduce drag by increasing the speed of the exit air.
All that work will be for naught if your inlets are not formed
properly. By that I mean that there should be no rough edges, there
should
be a smooth transition area and tight seals around the inlet and the
upper
plenum.
My work has been proven in the races that I have participated
in
during the last few years HYPERLINK
"http://sportairrace.org/index.html"http://sportairrace.org/index.html
note the recent Pagosa Springs race where my average speed was 220.5
knots
placing me in front of three, count them three, Glassair IIIs. The
HRIIs,
over the last few years, have not been doing that well in the races as
compared to the F1s and particularly in regards to John Huft=92s very
fast
RV8. He has been kicking some rocket butt. You will not see huge exit
air
outlets on any of the fast airplanes in these races. While you may not
be
interested in racing, drag reduction, with improved cooling, will save
you
money on each and every flight you take.
Checked by AVG.
15/05/2009
6:16 AM
Checked by AVG.
15/05/2009
6:16 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com> |
Tom: I hear you loud and clear. My plan, now that my temps are quite low
all around, is to incrementally close my exit back up until the temps react
upward and then to "tune" the outlet smaller and smaller until I reach
(hopefully) faster speeds and acceptable temps. Right now, I have some
"excess" to play with---and I'm glad to have it!
Regards,
Lee...
2009/11/7 Tom Martin
> It is nice to see some action on the rocket list! Engine
> cooling, especially with rockets, has been something that I have been
> working on for quite a few years on quite a few planes. My focus has not
> only been to properly cool the engine but to do so without increasing dra
g.
> If you open the bottom of the cowling you will, usually, improve cooling
.
> However if not done properly this will also increase drag and hence redu
ce
> speed. Yes I know that there will be those that say that they have not
> noticed any degradation of speed but that has not been my experience.
>
> Lay on your back under your airplane and look up at the firewall
.
> If you can see the firewall you have increased the drag of your airplane.
> The air exiting the cowling is pushing down that firewall and creating
> turbulence with the rest of the exiting air and the outside air that is
> rushing past the cowling. If you need more opening it would be better to
> drop the floor of the cowling and extend it aft. Yes this is more work b
ut
> what it does, is to get the air exiting the cowling going in the same
> direction as the air going past the airplane. Internal ductwork in the
> lower cowling and cleaning up the outlet area can also improve flow and
> reduce drag by increasing the speed of the exit air.
>
> All that work will be for naught if your inlets are not formed
> properly. By that I mean that there should be no rough edges, there shou
ld
> be a smooth transition area and tight seals around the inlet and the uppe
r
> plenum.
>
> My work has been proven in the races that I have participated in
> during the last few years http://sportairrace.org/index.html note the
> recent Pagosa Springs race where my average speed was 220.5 knots placing
me
> in front of three, count them three, Glassair IIIs. The HRIIs, over the
> last few years, have not been doing that well in the races as compared to
> the F1s and particularly in regards to John Huft=92s very fast RV8. He h
as
> been kicking some rocket butt. You will not see huge exit air outlets on
> any of the fast airplanes in these races. While you may not be intereste
d
> in racing, drag reduction, with improved cooling, will save you money on
> each and every flight you take.
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com> |
Well, the saga of N540HB continues. Yesterday we built some aluminum box
extenders that fit into the air inlets and protruded about an inch out in
front of the cowling. Additionally I had the lip on the outlet at the
bottom of the cowling cut off. Well, took off and the CHT=B9s were climbing
faster than the rocket. Hit 470 before I got to 1,000 feet. Got back into
the pattern and landed worried about causing major problems since the CHT=B9s
were having a hard time coming down. Took off again, this time with not
much power, and flew around the airport at 17=B2 of MP. All of the CHT=B9s wer
e
above 400 with most being around 420. Again, full mixture, 17=B2 and 2,000
feet. Landed, decided that our miracle patch wasn=B9t what it was expected t
o
be and took the extenders off. Feeling a bit discouraged I decide to take
it up again without our device in place and see what was going on. Eureka,
the CHT=B9s were cooler than I have seen them in a long time. I flew around
a
bit, it seemed as though the CHT and EGT were acting almost normal. I am
not sure if I can attach pics or not but am going to try. I think that wha
t
made the difference was taking the lip off of the exit area. After reading
the post by Lee I guess that the additional area that was created in the
exit was more beneficial than the lip that used to be there. It is a bit
perplexing though as I have been told on the list that 1.5:1 is the correct
ratio for exit area as opposed to entry area and I have way more than that.
Now for the next problem. About 5 years ago I had a rudder cable disconnec
t
from the rudder pedal as I was landing in a 15 knot cross wind. Upon
landing the only thing I could do was to hit the rudder pedal that was stil
l
connected and ground loop the plane. As I looped the gear collapsed and I
ended up damaging the wing spar in one of my wings thus having to replace
the wing. I think, after much consternation, that the new wing isn=B9t an
exact match of the old one and thus I am left wing heavy. We have tried al
l
of the tricks of moving around the flaps but I still have to hold maximum
aileron trim when I am in cruise. Any one have any tricks to changing the
way a wing works short of having a new pair made?
If N540HB were a person she would be a case study at Johns Hopkins.
Tried to send the pics, they wouldn=B9t go, if anyone would like to see them
let me know and I will send them to you out of this system.
Ernest
On 11/7/09 8:11 AM, "Lee Logan" wrote:
> Tom:- I hear you loud and clear.- My plan, now that my temps are quite lo
w all
> around, is to incrementally close my exit back up until the temps react u
pward
> and then to "tune" the outlet smaller and smaller until I reach (hopefull
y)
> faster speeds and acceptable temps.- Right now, I have some "excess" to p
lay
> with---and I'm glad to have it!
>
> Regards,
>
> Lee...
>
> 2009/11/7 Tom Martin
>>> -------- It is nice to see some action on the rocket list! --Engine coo
ling,
>>> especially with rockets, has been something that I have been working on
for
>>> quite a few years on quite a few planes. -My focus has not only been to
>>> properly cool the engine but to do so without increasing drag. -If you
open
>>> the bottom of the cowling you will, usually, improve cooling. -However
if
>>> not done properly this will also increase drag and hence reduce speed.
--Yes
>>> I know that there will be those that say that they have not noticed any
>>> degradation of speed but that has not been my experience.
>>> -------- Lay on your back under your airplane and look up at the firewa
ll.-
>>> If you can see the firewall you have increased the drag of your airplan
e.-
>>> The air exiting the cowling is pushing down that firewall and creating
>>> turbulence with the rest of the exiting air and the outside air that is
>>> rushing past the cowling. -If you need more opening it would be better
to
>>> drop the floor of the cowling and extend it aft. -Yes this is more work
but
>>> what it does, is to get the air exiting the cowling going in the same
>>> direction as the air going past the airplane. -Internal ductwork in the
>>> lower cowling and cleaning up the outlet area can also improve flow and
>>> reduce drag by increasing the speed of the exit air.
>>> -------- All that work will be for naught if your inlets are not formed
>>> properly. -By that I mean that there should be no rough edges, there sh
ould
>>> be a smooth transition area and tight seals around the inlet and the up
per
>>> plenum. -
>>> -------- My work has been proven in the races that I have participated
in
>>> during the last few years http://sportairrace.org/index.html --note the
>>> recent Pagosa Springs race where my average speed was 220.5 knots placi
ng me
>>> in front of three, count them three, Glassair IIIs. -The HRIIs, over th
e
>>> last few years, have not been doing that well in the races as compared
to
>>> the F1s and particularly in regards to John Huft=B9s very fast RV8.- He h
as
>>> been kicking some rocket butt.- You will not see huge exit air outlets
on
>>> any of the fast airplanes in these races.- While you may not be interes
ted
>>> in racing, drag reduction, with improved cooling, will save you money o
n
>>> each and every flight you take.
>>
>> Checked by AVG.
>>
>>
>>
>> Checked by AVG.
>>
>
>
>
> <http://www.buildersbooks.com>
om>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | Fund Raiser List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution |
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kevin Shannon" <kshannon(at)seanet.com> |
Re: Rocket-List: High Temps!All great info thanks Tom, my cowling is a
very early HR II version and the exit ramp is not deep enough to clear
the exhaust pipes without cutting it off forward of the firewall. I see
now that I should have done it over back when I was building, made it
about an inch and a half deeper and extended it aft, which would suck
air out instead of creating turbulence. Looks like I have something to
do this winter!
Kevin Shannon
HR II
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Martin
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:36 AM
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: High Temps!
It is nice to see some action on the rocket list! Engine
cooling, especially with rockets, has been something that I have been
working on for quite a few years on quite a few planes. My focus has
not only been to properly cool the engine but to do so without
increasing drag. If you open the bottom of the cowling you will,
usually, improve cooling. However if not done properly this will also
increase drag and hence reduce speed. Yes I know that there will be
those that say that they have not noticed any degradation of speed but
that has not been my experience.
Lay on your back under your airplane and look up at the
firewall. If you can see the firewall you have increased the drag of
your airplane. The air exiting the cowling is pushing down that
firewall and creating turbulence with the rest of the exiting air and
the outside air that is rushing past the cowling. If you need more
opening it would be better to drop the floor of the cowling and extend
it aft. Yes this is more work but what it does, is to get the air
exiting the cowling going in the same direction as the air going past
the airplane. Internal ductwork in the lower cowling and cleaning up
the outlet area can also improve flow and reduce drag by increasing the
speed of the exit air.
All that work will be for naught if your inlets are not
formed properly. By that I mean that there should be no rough edges,
there should be a smooth transition area and tight seals around the
inlet and the upper plenum.
My work has been proven in the races that I have
participated in during the last few years
http://sportairrace.org/index.html note the recent Pagosa Springs race
where my average speed was 220.5 knots placing me in front of three,
count them three, Glassair IIIs. The HRIIs, over the last few years,
have not been doing that well in the races as compared to the F1s and
particularly in regards to John Huft=92s very fast RV8. He has been
kicking some rocket butt. You will not see huge exit air outlets on any
of the fast airplanes in these races. While you may not be interested
in racing, drag reduction, with improved cooling, will save you money on
each and every flight you take.
Checked by AVG.
Checked by AVG.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
11/06/09 12:39:00
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | List Fund Raiser |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There
are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well!
Please make your Contribution today:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | Some Very Nice Comments... |
Dear Listers,
I've been getting some really nice comments from Listers along with their List
Support Contributions. I've shared some of them below. Please read them over
and see what your fellow Listers think of the Lists and Forums.
Please make a Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation
of these services.
There are lots of sweet gifts available, so browse the extensive selection and
pickup a nice item along with your qualifying Contribution.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
----------- What Listers Are Saying About The Lists -----------
Few things in life bring more usefulness than the List. This
is worth every penny!
Stephen T.
I have enjoyed the list for way too many years, but continue
to get closer to flying my project with the help of listers.
C.L.
Thanks for this List. It's been a great source of encouragement
and information.
Arden A.
Great service!
Gerald T.
It's always interesting reading the lists and I've gotten some
good help from the issues and answers there.
Steve T.
Been a member of the List for 12 years. Keep up the good work.
John H.
Great Site!
Harry M.
Great source of information...
Martin H.
Thanks for providing this great service!
Jeff P.
I continue to get and give information through these lists.
Ralph C.
This is a wonderful resource!
Warren H.
This is what inernet was meant for, sharing information and
experience. Michael W.
Thanks for making such a good list!
Fred D.
Thanks for running a great service!
Michael F.
I really appreciate it.
Dan H.
Thanks for the great service.
Michael L.
Thanks for maintaining this great resource.
John C.
Your sites have been a great resourses and an introduction
to many competent aircraft designers and fabricators.
Jon M.
Thanks for all that you do to maintain the Matronics forums
and for the personal help that you have been to me in
answering my questions regarding the use of the forums.
William B.
[The List] helped me get flying, fly off my test hours and
make my systems better. Ralph C.
The Universe is a better place because of you.
Eric J.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | Contributions Down By 21%... |
Dear Listers,
As of today, contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind
last year at this time by 21%. I have a fund raiser each year simply to cover
my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income
to support the Lists and rely solely on the contributions of members to keep the
expenses paid.
I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet
connection is a commercial-grade, T1 connection with public address space. I
also maintain a full backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related
data so that in the event of a server crash or worse, all of the Lists and
the many years of List archive data could be restored onto a new server in a matter
of hours.
All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of
my personal time as well. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs
and I ask that members that feel they receive a benefit from my investments,
make a modest contribution each year to support the continued operation and
upgrade of these services.
If you enjoy the Lists, please make a contribution today. I also offer some incentive
gifts for larger contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Wite, you
can use a credit card, Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the
continuation of these services:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Unexpected humor |
For those of you who haven't seen this on AvWeb.
Apparently the Gators' win was totally unexpected and inflicted quite a bit
of damage on the Bulldogs' ego. Hence the response.
Nico
Short Final
On a recent trip in my Cirrus from KSAV to KPDK, I had this exchange with
Atlanta Approach. (This was right after the FL-GA football game where the
Gators won ... again.)
ATL:
"N267CP, you are cleared to PDK via the TRBOW8 arrival. Proceed direct from
present position to TRBOW."
N267CP (me) :
"N267CP cleared direct TRBOW for the TRBOW8. Are you sure that shouldn't be
renamed TEBOW for the beating that your Bulldogs took?"
ATL:
"N267CP, one more remark about the beatdown, and I will amend your clearance
to IAH, LAX direct PDK!"
N267CP "N267CP O.K. TRBOW8 it is!"
ATL:
"Smart man."
Steve King
via e-mail
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | What's My Contribution Used For? |
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question.
Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides
for the very expensive, commercial-grade T1 Internet connection used on
the List insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when accessing List
services. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling
the highest performance possible for services such as the Archive Search
Engine, List Browser, and Forums. It pays for narly 20 years (yeah, I really
said *20* years) worth of online archive data available for instant random search
and access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and
maintaining the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List
Browse, Search Engine, Forums, and Wiki.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your
peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation,
censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. How many places
on the Internet can you make all those statements these days?
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many aspects of these valuable
List services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one
of the best investments you can make in your Sport...
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society |
I wrote about a riskless society. Check it out: TruthByRushDelivery
<http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/11/riskless-society.html>
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society |
From: | im7shannon(at)aol.com |
Why does this need to be posted in a discussion group about building and
flying Rockets?
-----Original Message-----
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 4:34 pm
Subject: Rocket-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society
I wrote about a riskless society. Check it out: TruthByRushDelivery
Thanks
Nico
========================
===========
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - The Rocket-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Neal George" <n8zg(at)mchsi.com> |
Subject: | [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society |
To paraphrase one whom I admire (even if it is only a line from a movie): I
haven't sufficient flow of speech to answer adequately. I'll try anyway.
Nico's musings on the steady erosion of the liberty guaranteed by our
Constitution, paid for with the blood of patriots, are directly related to
building and flying Rockets (and RVs, and Commanders, and even lowly
Cherokees) and everything else we do or enjoy as citizens of the greatest
country God ever gave Man.
Being a naturalized citizen, Nico has perspective and insight that many of
us mere natives lack. We would do well to learn from him.
Neal E. George, Capt, USAF
Navarre, FL
RV-7 N8ZG
CherokeeJet N9586J
A&P/IA
=========
From: On Behalf Of im7shannon(at)aol.com
Why does this need to be posted in a discussion group about building and
flying Rockets?
I wrote about a riskless society. Check it out: TruthByRushDelivery
<http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/11/riskless-society.html>
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Wolfgang Meyn" <mw104(at)netmdc.com> |
Subject: | Re: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society |
+1
Sick and tired of this BS.
Thanks
Wolfgang
From: im7shannon(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society
Why does this need to be posted in a discussion group about building and
flying Rockets?
-----Original Message-----
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 4:34 pm
Subject: Rocket-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society
I wrote about a riskless society. Check it out: TruthByRushDelivery
Thanks
Nico
=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Wolfgang Meyn" <mw104(at)netmdc.com> |
Please take me off the list.
Thanks
Wolfgang
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society |
Well, the folks on this list oftentimes share things with one another and I
thought the behavioral sciences that determine the risks and their impact on
insurance might be something that would be of interest to some (I just
couldn't cite a personal example involving aviation insurance but I can make
something up if you wish).
The link is so short that deleting without reading it is entirely
acceptable. Next time I post something on this list that's not entirely
reeking of avgas, you can safely delete it by the [TruthByRushDelivery]
inclusion in the Subject line.
Sorry if I offended you, im7shannon(at)aol.com.
________________________________
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
im7shannon(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society
Why does this need to be posted in a discussion group about building and
flying Rockets?
-----Original Message-----
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 4:34 pm
Subject: Rocket-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society
I wrote about a riskless society. Check it out: TruthByRushDelivery
<http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/11/riskless-society.html>
Thanks
Nico
===================================
=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
===================================
tp://forums.matronics.com
===================================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society |
Thank you, sir.
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal George
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:17 PM
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society
To paraphrase one whom I admire (even if it is only a line from a movie): I
haven't sufficient flow of speech to answer adequately. I'll try anyway.
Nico's musings on the steady erosion of the liberty guaranteed by our
Constitution, paid for with the blood of patriots, are directly related to
building and flying Rockets (and RVs, and Commanders, and even lowly
Cherokees) and everything else we do or enjoy as citizens of the greatest
country God ever gave Man.
Being a naturalized citizen, Nico has perspective and insight that many of
us mere natives lack. We would do well to learn from him.
Neal E. George, Capt, USAF
Navarre, FL
RV-7 N8ZG
CherokeeJet N9586J
A&P/IA
=========
From: On Behalf Of im7shannon(at)aol.com
Why does this need to be posted in a discussion group about building and
flying Rockets?
I wrote about a riskless society. Check it out: TruthByRushDelivery
<http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/11/riskless-society.html>
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com> |
Subject: | Speaking of learning from blogs ... |
I'm a naturalized citizen building a HRII in San Francisco :D
Can anyone recommend a good build log on the Rocket ? I confess my flying
RV-9 owes so much to the blogger/builders that went before me.
Did you all build your own wing spars ? I heard Phlogiston aren't willing
any more ...
Regards,
Gerry.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Noel Rodman <ctlimited(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society |
Nico=2CI enjoyed your perspective.Please continue to post all your thoughts
to this list.Thanks=2CNoel RodmanSan Luis Obispo=2C CaliforniaN300HR
From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society
Date: Thu=2C 19 Nov 2009 21:38:00 -0800
Thank you=2C sir.
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal
George
Sent: Thursday=2C November 19=2C 2009 7:17 PM
rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Rocket-List:
[TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society
To
paraphrase one whom I admire (even if it is only a line from a movie): I
haven=92t sufficient flow of speech to answer adequately. I=92ll try
anyway.
Nico=92s
musings on the steady erosion of the liberty guaranteed by our Constitution
=2C
paid for with the blood of patriots=2C are directly related to building and
flying
Rockets (and RVs=2C and Commanders=2C and even lowly Cherokees) and everyth
ing else
we do or enjoy as citizens of the greatest country God ever gave
Man.
Being
a naturalized citizen=2C Nico has perspective and insight that many of us m
ere
natives lack. We would do well to learn from him.
Neal
E. George=2C Capt=2C USAF
Navarre=2C
FL
RV-7
N8ZG
CherokeeJet
N9586J
A&P/IA
=========
From: On Behalf Of
im7shannon(at)aol.com
Why
does this need to be posted in a discussion group about building and flying
Rockets?
I wrote
about a riskless society. Check it out: TruthByRushDelivery
Thanks
Nico
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref
="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: I wanted simpler=2C now it's simpler. I'm a rock star.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=P
ID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:112009
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | Just A Few Days Left; Still Trailing Last Year... |
Dear Listers,
There are just a few more days left of this year's List Fund Raiser! Response
has been very good, but still well behind last year. If you've been waiting until
the last minute to make your contribution and maybe even pick up a great
gift, now might be good time to show your support!
Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists
and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions
during this Fund Raiser.
Please make a Contribution today!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bowen Miles <cessna170bdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Speaking of learning from blogs ... |
Gerry,
-
I haven't run across an actual build log for a rocket, but www.vincesrocket
.com has lots of good info on building techniques. Also, you can go to http
://vansairforce.net/links.htm-and click on Builder Sites for a list of RV
builder sites in general. Also, there are some RV-4 sites at http://www.my
kitlog.com-that might be helpful.
-
I used Van's RV-4-wing kit with-pre-drilled-spars, just deleted any p
redrilled skins, and any parts supplied by Harmon, like tank backs and skin
s. The predrilled RV-4 spars-don't match HRII plans dimensions exactly, b
ut John Harmon said just locate ribs to the pre-drilled holes closest to lo
catons specified in the plans. Driving the -6 rivets wasn't that big a deal
. I did both spars solo in a day using the Avery C-frame tool and a 3lb han
mer.
-
Hope this helps.- Miles
--- On Thu, 11/19/09, Gerry Filby wrote:
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: Speaking of learning from blogs ...
Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 9:59 PM
I'm a naturalized citizen building a HRII in San Francisco :D
-
Can anyone recommend a good build log on the Rocket ?- I confess my flyin
g RV-9 owes so much to the blogger/builders that went before me.
-
Did you all build your own wing spars ?- I heard Phlogiston aren't willin
g any more ...
-
Regards,
Gerry.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published |
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
USA
(Please include your email address on the check!)
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | [TruthByRushDelivery] Ocean Ditching |
Enjoy. Thanks, Nico
TruthByRushDelivery
<http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/11/ocean-ditching.html>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Branden Hartman <hondaguy46041(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | [TruthByRushDelivery] Ocean Ditching |
Please remove me from the list.
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... |
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short
days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support
is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully
it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the
Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there
is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums.
The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit
card, Paypal, or a personal check:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support
the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | High Engine Temps |
From: | Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com> |
Wanted to let everyone know that on my Rocket which had been having high
CHT's we made one more change that dramatically cooled the engine. I had
the compression increased on my engine to 9:1. Someone on the list had
mentioned that I should look at my timing and possibly changing it. When we
looked at the timing it was set at 25 degrees, we moved it to 20 degrees and
it really dropped the CHT's down. Now I am running in the high 300's for
the first time that I can recall. Thanks for all the help.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: High Engine Temps |
Awesome Ernest! Electronic ignition helps immensely as well. Happy Thanksgiving!
Smokey
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 24, 2009, at 9:17 AM, Ernest Hale wrote:
Wanted to let everyone know that on my Rocket which had been having high
CHT's we made one more change that dramatically cooled the engine. I had
the compression increased on my engine to 9:1. Someone on the list had
mentioned that I should look at my timing and possibly changing it. When we
looked at the timing it was set at 25 degrees, we moved it to 20 degrees and
it really dropped the CHT's down. Now I am running in the high 300's for
the first time that I can recall. Thanks for all the help.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | What Are You Thankful For...? |
Dear Listers,
Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many
of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous
feasts of plenty and giving thanks for many blessings that have been bestowed
upon us.
Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are
for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the
assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists.
One of my favorite comments is when someone writes to me and says something like,
"Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!".
That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists.
Its always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning
to check my List email!!
Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for
their continued operation and upgrade?
The List Contribution Site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance for your kind consideration,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | No "Black Friday" For List Fund Raiser... |
Even though the number of List subscriptions and List posts are up significantly
this year compared to last year, support during this year's List Fund Raiser
has been woefully lagging from last year. There are only a couple more days
left in November and the end of the Fund Raiser is quickly approaching.
I have always preferred a non-commercial List experience as many, many members
have also expressed that they do as well. However, if the yearly fund raiser
cannot generate sufficient funds to keep the bills paid on the List service expenses,
I will have to look into some sort of advertising. Please don't let that
happen!
Your personal contribution of $20 or $30 goes a long ways to keeping the operation
a float. The lunch combo at Carl's Jr costs nearly $10 these days. Isn't
the List worth at least as much as a couple of burgers?
Please make sure your name is on this year's List of Contributors published in
December. The Contribution site is secure, quick, and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | Just Two More Days Left; Fund Raiser Behind By 12%... |
Dear Listers,
This year's List Fund Raiser is still trailing last year by a 12% margin. If you
like the ad-free environment that is the Matronics Email List and Forum experience,
please make a quick Contribution to keep it that way!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I've been getting a ton of really nice comments from Contributors regarding the
Lists. Please read over some of them below and see if they don't resonate with
you as well.
Thank you in advance for your generous contribution to support these Lists!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
--------------------------- Member Feedback ----------------------------
ur web site is a real institution of the whole Experimental
Aircraft subculture.
John G
Thanks Matt for the lists. A lot of good info. Great bunch
of list members. Great videos and no SPAM.
Paul C
It has been a valuable tool.
Troy M
..appreciate the site as much as ever.
Larry M
By using various forums I've learned a ton, received great
advice, made friends, and saved money!
Craig W
Since I've finished [my project], I've not had much to do as
far as fabrication of electrical systems. However,
selectively reading various topics is still very valuable
and Bob's insights and new how to's make me a continuous
subscriber.
Larry F
Matronics user groups are the best tool I have for learning
to build my RV-10!
Philip W
There is always useful knowledge to be found on this list,
and I suspect that it has kept quite a few people out of
trouble over the years it has been in operation. Good
entertainment, too.
Graham H
Great web site. I wish I'd known about it while building.
Bob S
I'm happy to provide some support to this list. It is very
helpful.
Vaughn T
Good service to sport aviation!!
Roger B
Awesome Service you provide for us!
Bill R
My [project] is almost finished! However, it wouldn't be
close without the [this] group.
Douwe B
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Thanks again for providing another year of your useful
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Great site indeed, every time I get a message I usually
learn something.
Peter B
You are making a huge contribution to the builder fraternity
and in no small way enhancing sport aviation safety.
Richard G
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building my RV10. I would be lost without out it. And I
have made a bunch of new friends as well!
Les K
The lists are one of the things I really enjoy, so keep
up the good work.
Freddie H
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Thanks for a great site. Although the project is complete
and flying I still get a wealth of information from all
the messages.
Marcus C
Only learned about you six months ago...my RV-7A is just
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[The] Lists are an invaluable resource. I know that it has
helped me enormously in my project.
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Its November 30th and that means at least two things. For better or worse, its
my 46th birthday! But it also means that its that last official day of the
Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been jones'n over one of the really
nice gifts that are available this year with a qualifying Contribution, then now
is the time to jump on one!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting
it off for some reason, NOW is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists!
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so far this
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The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
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Thank you to all in advance!
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Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | FW: F16 vs. C-130 |
Too precious.
F16 vs. C-130
A C-130 was lumbering along when a cocky F-16 flashed by.
The jet jockey decided to show off.
The fighter jock told the C-130 pilot, 'watch this!' and promptly went into
a barrel roll followed by a steep climb. He then finished with a sonic boom
as he broke the sound barrier. The F-16 pilot
asked the C-130 pilot what he thought of that?
The C-130 pilot said, 'That was impressive, but watch this!'
The C-130 droned along for about 5 minutes and then the C-130 pilot came
back on and said: 'What did you think of that?'
Puzzled, the F-16 pilot asked, 'What the heck did you do?'
The C-130 pilot chuckled. 'I stood up, stretched my legs, walked to the
back, took a leak, then got a cup of coffee and a cinnamon roll.'
When you are young & foolish - speed & flash may seem a good thing !!!
When you get older & smarter - comfort & dull is not such a bad thing!!!
Us older folks understand this one.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
John,
--Having been blessed to fly the F-16 for 20 years, I fully agree! :)
Rob RayHR2 760RF
--- On Thu, 12/3/09, John Harmon wrote:
From: John Harmon <hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/02/09
Date: Thursday, December 3, 2009, 8:04 PM
Need guns and missels on the Rocket
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 3, 2009, at 4:51 PM, "nico css" wrote:
=0A=0AThat was my immediate =0Athought, too. The donuts can wait. =0A-
=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-rock
et-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of =0ASpeedy11(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 3:44 =0APM
Subject: Rocket-List: Re: =0ARocket-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/02/09
=0A=0A=0AMy guess is you've never flown the F-16.=0AStan Sutterfield=0ADo n
ot archive=0AToo precious.
F16 =0A vs. C-130
A C-130 was lumbering along when a cocky F-16 flashed =0A by.
The jet jockey decided to show off.
The fighter jock told =0A the C-130 pilot, 'watch this!' and promptly went
into
a barrel roll =0A followed by a steep climb. He then finished with a sonic
boom
as he broke =0A the sound barrier. The F-16 pilot
asked the C-130 pilot what he thought of =0A that?
The C-130 pilot said, 'That was impressive, but watch =0A this!'
The C-130 droned along for about 5 minutes and then the C-130 =0A pilot ca
me
back on and said: 'What did you think of that?'
Puzzled, =0A the F-16 pilot asked, 'What the heck did you do?'
The C-130 pilot =0A chuckled. 'I stood up, stretched my legs, walked to th
e
back, took a =0A leak,- then got a cup of coffee and a cinnamon roll.'
When you =0A are young & foolish --- speed & flash may seem a good thi
ng =0A !!!
When you get older & smarter - comfort & dull is not such a =0A bad thing!
!!
Us older folks understand this =0Aone.
=0A=0A-=0A=0Ahref="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com=0A
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com=0Ahref="http:
//www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com=0Ahref="http://www.matroni
cs.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronic
===========0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | 2009 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
The 2009 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of
weeks ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. Its
the people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums possible.
Their generous
contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and running.
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I also want to thank Bob, Jon, Andy, and John for their generous support through
the supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some great products and
I encourage you to visit their respective web sites:
Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - www.aeroelectric.com
Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - www.homebuilthelp.com
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - www.buildersbooks.com
John Caldwell - HowToCrimp - www.howtocrimp.com
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2009 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2009.html
Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Happy New Year Rocketeers!
Smokey
HR2
Sent from my iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?(MWH) |
What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?
Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine.
As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question
I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured of
hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an
interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there
really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little
more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute.
Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted
to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of
temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high"
speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when
Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order.
Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to
Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen.
So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations,
someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?"
This was a first.
After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never
shared before, and relayed the following.
I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater,
Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron
Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted
across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the
English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander
there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating
moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No
problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the
North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield.
Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat,
and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we
found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most
former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower
and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that
I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as
far as I could see in the haze.
We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we
were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt
said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my
windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes
of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet
commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to
get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and
partial gray overcast.
Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us
but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to
peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the
awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying
career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges.
As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped
and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this
point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank.
Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of
flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view
of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that
morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as
the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the
infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as
some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass.
Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without
incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes.
After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was
reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the
commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen,
especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could
only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats
were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full
afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable.
Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that
morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low
approach.
As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight
suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass."
Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. What
did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two."
We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me
again!"
And I never did.
A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's
club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71
fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids
falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their
eyebrows.
Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands,
he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred.
Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low
approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane."
Impressive indeed.
Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day
that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories.
It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet
can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep
that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Rocket Efficiency, Defined! |
Guys,More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of t
his little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at fore
cast winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and rea
lly get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gall
on aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-
Con built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degr
ees LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RP
M I consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. B
eing a Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested dir
ect to home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 1
5,500 increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally b
egan my descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on boa
rd, landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left.---My
Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize tires,
caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly shows wh
at John's design is capable of.-
BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house, look
ing forward to several thousand more!
Rob "Smokey" RayHR2
--- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote:
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?
(MWH)
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM
What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?
Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine.
As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question
I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured o
f
hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an
interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there
really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little
more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute.
Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted
to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of
temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high"
speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when
Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order.
Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to
Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen.
So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations,
someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?"
This was a first.
After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never
shared before, and relayed the following.
I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater,
Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron
Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted
across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the
English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commande
r
there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating
moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. N
o
problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the
North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield.
Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat,
and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we
found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most
former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small towe
r
and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and tha
t
I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as
far as I could see in the haze.
We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we
were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt
said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my
windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hope
s
of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cade
t
commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to
get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind an
d
partial gray overcast.
Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us
but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to
peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the
awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flyin
g
career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges.
As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped
and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At thi
s
point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank.
Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of
flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view
of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that
morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as
the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the
infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as
some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass.
Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall withou
t
incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes.
After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was
reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the
commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen,
especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that coul
d
only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats
were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full
afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable.
Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that
morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low
approach.
As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight
suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass."
Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots.- Wha
t
did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two.
"
We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me
again!"
And I never did.
A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's
club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71
fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kid
s
falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their
eyebrows.
Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands,
he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred.
Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low
approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane."
Impressive indeed.
Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day
that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories.
It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet
can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep
that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too.
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! |
Nice!!
Jim Stone
Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Ray
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:10 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Guys,
More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the
capabilities of this little machine. Coming home from Dallas
post-Christmas I looked at forecast winds and thought I would try to one
hop it home, nearly 800NM and really get some efficiency numbers. With
54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon aux tanks) I launched, cruise
climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-Con built IO-540 with GAMI
injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degrees LOP and 33 degrees
advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I consistently
showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being a
Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct
to home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to
15,500 increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I
finally began my descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of
fuel on board, landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left.
My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my
oversize tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze,
but it truly shows what John's design is capable of.
BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the
house, looking forward to several thousand more!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
--- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote:
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew
the Blackbird?(MWH)
To: "'nico'"
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM
What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?
Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine.
As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker,
the question
I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can
be assured of
hearing that question several times at any event I attend.
It's an
interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for
speed, but there
really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give
you a little
more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles
a minute.
Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and
never wanted
to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any
limits of
temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own
individual "high"
speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine
over Libya when
Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order.
Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and
effortlessly took us to
Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen.
So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my
presentations,
someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the
Blackbird?"
This was a first.
After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I
had never
shared before, and relayed the following.
I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my
back-seater,
Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and
the Iron
Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base.
As we scooted
across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF
base in the
English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air
cadet commander
there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a
motivating
moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a
low approach. No
problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial
refueling over the
North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield.
Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in
the back seat,
and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to
subsonic speeds, we
found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze.
Like most
former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had
a small tower
and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were
close and that
I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing
but trees as
far as I could see in the haze.
We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from
325 knots we
were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just
uncomfortable. Walt
said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing
in my
windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling
maneuver in hopes
of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile,
below, the cadet
commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower
in order to
get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day
with no wind and
partial gray overcast.
Walter continued to give me indications that the field should
be below us
but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we
continued to
peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our
power back, the
awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good
instructors in my flying
career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges.
As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my
heart stopped
and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full
forward. At this
point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight
bank.
Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a
thunderous roar of
flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell
into full view
of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still
quiet of that
morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in
their face as
the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the
tower side of the
infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be
described as
some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass.
Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to
Mildenhall without
incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes.
After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both
certain he was
reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands
and said the
commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he
had ever seen,
especially how we had surprised them with such a precise
maneuver that could
only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the
cadet's hats
were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in
full
afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable.
Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very
well that
morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to
see our low
approach.
As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits
to flight
suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the
pass."
Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six
knots. What
did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One
hundred fifty-two."
We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do
that to me
again!"
And I never did.
A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall
Officer's
club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an
SR-71
fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story
included kids
falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet
singed their
eyebrows.
Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays
in our hands,
he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had
occurred.
Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a
routine low
approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane."
Impressive indeed.
Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my
audience that day
that it would become one of the most popular and most
requested stories.
It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's
fastest jet
can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good
idea to keep
that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too.
nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
_sp; --> h - List Contribution Web Site;
&nb;
http:=======================
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! |
From: | Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com> |
Great report, Smokey. An amazing airplane, indeed!
Lee...
P.S. Festus and his gang spent the holidays with us. Spun him around the
field in my F1, had a great time!
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Rocket Efficiency, Defined! |
From: | "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" <andrew(at)nzactive.com> |
Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft,
but nothing, NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and
some of you guys seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I true
out at max cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly
200 knots, and I've heard some people true out at 205, even 210? Is that
true, anyone?
And as you say the speed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to
mention, the pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL capabilities too.
Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best
economy comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal
friction of the engine. I wonder if you would have got even better
figures at, say, 22" MP and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit
is, for your engine...? I believe that is the main "trick" that
Lindbergh taught the aviators of the US Navy & Marine Corps in the
Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent over to teach them to get
maximum range and endurance from their steeds.
not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your basic point -
that rockets rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :)
Andrew
________________________________
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Guys,
More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of
this little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at
forecast winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM
and really get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on
board( 10 gallon aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and
after letting my Ly-Con built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I
began to lean to 50 Degrees LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With
just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235
Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being a Saturday and knowing the
Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct to home, straight over
the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 15,500 increasing my GS
to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally began my descent into
the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board, landing on my
1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left.
My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize
tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it
truly shows what John's design is capable of.
BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house,
looking forward to several thousand more!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
--- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote:
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the
Blackbird?(MWH)
To: "'nico'"
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM
What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?
Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine.
As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the
question
I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can
be assured of
hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's
an
interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed,
but there
really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give
you a little
more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a
minute.
Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and
never wanted
to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any
limits of
temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own
individual "high"
speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over
Libya when
Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order.
Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly
took us to
Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen.
So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my
presentations,
someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the
Blackbird?"
This was a first.
After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I
had never
shared before, and relayed the following.
I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my
back-seater,
Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and
the Iron
Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As
we scooted
across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF
base in the
English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air
cadet commander
there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a
motivating
moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low
approach. No
problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling
over the
North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield.
Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the
back seat,
and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic
speeds, we
found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze.
Like most
former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a
small tower
and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were
close and that
I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing
but trees as
far as I could see in the haze.
We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325
knots we
were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just
uncomfortable. Walt
said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing
in my
windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling
maneuver in hopes
of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile,
below, the cadet
commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in
order to
get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with
no wind and
partial gray overcast.
Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be
below us
but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we
continued to
peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our
power back, the
awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors
in my flying
career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges.
As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my
heart stopped
and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full
forward. At this
point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight
bank.
Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous
roar of
flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell
into full view
of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still
quiet of that
morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in
their face as
the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower
side of the
infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be
described as
some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass.
Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to
Mildenhall without
incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes.
After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both
certain he was
reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and
said the
commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had
ever seen,
especially how we had surprised them with such a precise
maneuver that could
only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the
cadet's hats
were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in
full
afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable.
Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very
well that
morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to
see our low
approach.
As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits
to flight
suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the
pass."
Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six
knots. What
did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred
fifty-two."
We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do
that to me
again!"
And I never did.
A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall
Officer's
club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an
SR-71
fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story
included kids
falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet
singed their
eyebrows.
Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in
our hands,
he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had
occurred.
Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a
routine low
approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane."
Impressive indeed.
Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my
audience that day
that it would become one of the most popular and most requested
stories.
It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's
fastest jet
can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good
idea to keep
that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too.
nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
_sp; --> h - List Contribution Web Site;
&nb; <http://forums.matronics.com>
http:=======================
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Rocket Efficiency, Defined! |
>From what I know, the better fuel economy at lower RPM's is due to less air
being pumped per minute. Theoretically, an engine working at 1,000 rpm as
apposed to 3,000 rpm, just as an example, pumps 1/3rd of the air, which has
a greater impact on the fuel burn even at higher mixture settings due to
higher MP's. The net gain is positive at lower RPM's. There would be, I
assume, an envelope in which that is true, in theory.
Just my 2c worth.
Nico
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ -
Andrew
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:01 PM
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft, but
nothing, NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and some of
you guys seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I true out at max
cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly 200 knots, and
I've heard some people true out at 205, even 210? Is that true, anyone?
And as you say the speed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to mention,
the pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL capabilities too.
Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best economy
comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal friction of the
engine. I wonder if you would have got even better figures at, say, 22" MP
and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit is, for your engine...? I
believe that is the main "trick" that Lindbergh taught the aviators of the
US Navy & Marine Corps in the Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent
over to teach them to get maximum range and endurance from their steeds.
not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your basic point - that
rockets rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :)
Andrew
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Guys,
More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of this
little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at forecast
winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and really
get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon
aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-Con
built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degrees
LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I
consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being
a Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct to
home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 15,500
increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally began my
descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board,
landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left.
My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize
tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly
shows what John's design is capable of.
BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house,
looking forward to several thousand more!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
--- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote:
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the
Blackbird?(MWH)
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM
What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?
Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine.
As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question
I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured of
hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an
interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there
really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little
more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute.
Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted
to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of
temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high"
speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when
Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order.
Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to
Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen.
So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations,
someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?"
This was a first.
After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never
shared before, and relayed the following.
I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater,
Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron
Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted
across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the
English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander
there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating
moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No
problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the
North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield.
Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat,
and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we
found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most
former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower
and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that
I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as
far as I could see in the haze.
We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we
were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt
said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my
windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes
of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet
commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to
get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and
partial gray overcast.
Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us
but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to
peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the
awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying
career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges.
As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped
and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this
point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank.
Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of
flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view
of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that
morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as
the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the
infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as
some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass.
Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without
incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes.
After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was
reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the
commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen,
especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could
only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats
were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full
afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable.
Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that
morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low
approach.
As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight
suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass."
Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. What
did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two."
We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me
again!"
And I never did.
A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's
club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71
fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids
falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their
eyebrows.
Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands,
he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred.
Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low
approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane."
Impressive indeed.
Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day
that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories.
It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet
can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep
that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too.
nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
_sp; --> h <http://forums.matronics.com> - List Contribution Web
Site; &nb; http:=======================
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)amtelecom.net> |
Subject: | Rocket Efficiency, Defined! |
Andrew
I have been flying rockets for twelve years now and have been
fortunate to have flown many different versions. All of them fly
beautifully and I can honestly say that if I had to go back to other types
of aircraft I probably would not fly very much. The last three years I have
participated in a few events held by the Sport Aircraft Racing League, SARL,
HYPERLINK
"http://sportairrace.org/index.html"http://sportairrace.org/index.html . It
has been a real learning experience and with constant experimentation I have
increased the top speed of my aircraft considerably. The average top speed,
full power, in three races this year was 220.2 knots. This was full
throttle, 2650rpms.
In the same three races Wayne Hadath with a stock engine, and a clean light
stock F1 had a 212 knot average. The fastest RV8 is currently owned by John
Huft, and he is right around the 200 knot range with his beautiful aircraft.
I would encourage other rocket owners to participate in these events,
experiment with your aircraft and find some different ways to get these
amazing aircraft even faster. With gains in top speed, comes gains in
efficiency which you will use on each and every flight.
Tom Martin
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ -
Andrew
Sent: January 8, 2010 1:01 AM
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft, but
nothing, NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and some of
you guys seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I true out at max
cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly 200 knots, and
I've heard some people true out at 205, even 210? Is that true, anyone?
And as you say the speed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to mention,
the pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL capabilities too.
Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best economy
comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal friction of the
engine. I wonder if you would have got even better figures at, say, 22" MP
and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit is, for your engine...? I
believe that is the main "trick" that Lindbergh taught the aviators of the
US Navy & Marine Corps in the Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent
over to teach them to get maximum range and endurance from their steeds.
not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your basic point - that
rockets rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :)
Andrew
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Guys,
More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of this
little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at forecast
winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and really
get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon
aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-Con
built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degrees
LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I
consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being
a Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct to
home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 15,500
increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally began my
descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board,
landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left.
My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize
tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly
shows what John's design is capable of.
BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house,
looking forward to several thousand more!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
--- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote:
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the
Blackbird?(MWH)
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM
What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?
Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine.
As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question
I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured of
hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an
interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there
really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little
more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute.
Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted
to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of
temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high"
speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when
Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order.
Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to
Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen.
So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations,
someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?"
This was a first.
After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never
shared before, and relayed the following.
I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater,
Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron
Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted
across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the
English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander
there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating
moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No
problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the
North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield.
Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat,
and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we
found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most
former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower
and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that
I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as
far as I could see in the haze.
We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we
were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt
said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my
windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes
of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet
commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to
get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and
partial gray overcast.
Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us
but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to
peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the
awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying
career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges.
As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped
and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this
point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank.
Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of
flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view
of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that
morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as
the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the
infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as
some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass.
Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without
incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes.
After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was
reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the
commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen,
especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could
only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats
were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full
afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable.
Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that
morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low
approach.
As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight
suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass."
Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. What
did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two."
We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me
again!"
And I never did.
A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's
club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71
fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids
falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their
eyebrows.
Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands,
he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred.
Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low
approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane."
Impressive indeed.
Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day
that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories.
It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet
can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep
that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too.
nbsp; --> HYPERLINK "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"
\nhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
_sp; --> HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com" \nh - List
Contribution Web Site; &nb; HYPERLINK
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution" \nhttp:=======================
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Rocket-List
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Checked by AVG.
6:16 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! |
G'day Andy,
I too am a big fan of Charles Lindberg and will have to test his P-38 leaning
technique sometime. When I knock around here locally I set 20/20 below 5000 ft
msl and nomalky show 6 gph at 125 knots, counting the big Hartzell blades as
they pass by:) Even more amazing is comparing my RV4 fuel logs from the past
on identical trips with the HR2, equal or less at 30 knots faster!
Smokey
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 8, 2010, at 1:00 AM, "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" wrote:
Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft, but nothing,
NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and some of you guys
seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I true out at max cruise (2500
rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly 200 knots, and I've heard some
people true out at 205, even 210? Is that true, anyone?
And as you say the speed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to mention, the
pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL capabilities too.
Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best economy comes
from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal friction of the engine.
I wonder if you would have got even better figures at, say, 22" MP and 2000
rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit is, for your engine...? I believe that
is the main "trick" that Lindbergh taught the aviators of the US Navy & Marine
Corps in the Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent over to teach them
to get maximum range and endurance from their steeds.
not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your basic point - that rockets
rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :)
Andrew
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Guys,
More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of this little
machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at forecast winds and
thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and really get some efficiency
numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon aux tanks) I launched,
cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-Con built IO-540 with
GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degrees LOP and 33 degrees advance
on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I consistently showed 10.4
GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being a Saturday and knowing the
Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct to home, straight over the Golfo
De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 15,500 increasing my GS to 252 knots
retaining the same FF. When I finally began my descent into the swamp I still
had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board, landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with
16 gallons left.
My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize tires,
caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly shows what
John's design is capable of.
BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house, looking
forward to several thousand more!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
--- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote:
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?(MWH)
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM
What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?
Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine.
As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question
I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured of
hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an
interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there
really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little
more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute.
Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted
to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of
temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high"
speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when
Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order.
Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to
Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen.
So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations,
someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?"
This was a first.
After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never
shared before, and relayed the following.
I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater,
Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron
Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted
across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the
English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander
there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating
moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No
problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the
North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield.
Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat,
and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we
found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most
former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower
and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that
I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as
far as I could see in the haze.
We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we
were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt
said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my
windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes
of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet
commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to
get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and
partial gray overcast.
Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us
but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to
peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the
awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying
career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges.
As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped
and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this
point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank.
Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of
flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view
of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that
morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as
the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the
infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as
some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass.
Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without
incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes.
After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was
reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the
commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen,
especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could
only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats
were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full
afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable.
Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that
morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low
approach.
As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight
suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass."
Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. What
did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two."
We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me
again!"
And I never did.
A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's
club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71
fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids
falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their
eyebrows.
Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands,
he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred.
Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low
approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane."
Impressive indeed.
Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day
that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories.
It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet
can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep
that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too.
nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
_sp; --> h - List Contribution Web Site; &nb; http:=======================
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! |
Awesome!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 7, 2010, at 6:11 PM, Lee Logan wrote:
Great report, Smokey. An amazing airplane, indeed!
Lee...
P.S. Festus and his gang spent the holidays with us. Spun him around the field
in my F1, had a great time!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja(at)starpower.net> |
Subject: | Re: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! |
I have found that the low RPM cruise choice does exactly what you have
described, primarily due to lower internal engine friction and somewhat
higher prop efficiency due to greater prop blade efficiency. Possibly,
the lower piston speed during the power stroke may provide more complete
combustion, particularly with slightly advanced ignition timing.
I regularly fly cruise at 1900 RPM and anything up to 22 or 23 inches
MAP depending on altitude and temperature with my LYC O-360 and Hartzell
constant speed prop. And with lean of peak operation I get up to 29-30
miles per gallon. In some cases, this allows non-stop flights that take
less flight time than the total elapsed time required by going faster
and having to make an enroute fuel stop. This is a winner on fuel costs,
time, and extended TBO possibilities!
Jim McCulley
===============================================================================
ACTIVE NZ - Andrew wrote: ((SNIP))
> Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best
> economy comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal
> friction of the engine. I wonder if you would have got even better
> figures at, say, 22" MP and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit
> is, for your engine...? I believe that is the main "trick" that
> Lindbergh taught the aviators of the US Navy & Marine Corps in the
> Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent over to teach them to get
> maximum range and endurance from their steeds. ((SNIP))
=================================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Rocket Efficiency, Defined! |
From: | "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" <andrew(at)nzactive.com> |
Nice info, y'all.
Unfortunately, being in NZ, I can't participate in these sorts of
things. Only two Rockets flying in NZ, that I know of - and another
being built.
I'd love to get another 10 knots or so out of my Rocket. I've noticed
that she flies with a LOT of down elevator (ie, forward stick) in the
cruise, and have wondered about resetting the incidence of the tail
plane. She also needs a little left aileron to fly straight, and this
means both ailerons are always *slightly* defected. Are these sorts of
things likely to rob serious speed? (As in, I don't care about 1-2
knots, but 10 or so, and I'd do something about it.
Would also be interested in the perspective of knowledgeable builder
pilots - I've heard of at least one Rocket fatality where the tail came
apart, and I'm told Mr Vans disapproves of our aircraft cos they're
being pushed beyond design limits. Is there anything in this? As in,
would it be worth dismantaling the horizontal and vertical stabs, and
rebuilding with thicker gauge steel? I know it's a big job.
Any 'easy' ideas for speeding up Rockets? I've got 280 hp, and she's
reasonably light, but does have some avionics of course. Not too many
aerials etc. Feel free to contact off list - andrew at activenewzealand
dot com.
Cheers
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Tom Martin
Sent: Sat 1/9/2010 5:30 AM
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Andrew
I have been flying rockets for twelve years now and have
been
fortunate to have flown many different versions. All of them fly
beautifully and I can honestly say that if I had to go back to other
types
of aircraft I probably would not fly very much. The last three years I
have
participated in a few events held by the Sport Aircraft Racing League,
SARL,
HYPERLINK
"http://sportairrace.org/index.html"http://sportairrace.org/index.html .
It
has been a real learning experience and with constant experimentation I
have
increased the top speed of my aircraft considerably. The average top
speed,
full power, in three races this year was 220.2 knots. This was full
throttle, 2650rpms.
In the same three races Wayne Hadath with a stock engine, and a clean
light
stock F1 had a 212 knot average. The fastest RV8 is currently owned by
John
Huft, and he is right around the 200 knot range with his beautiful
aircraft.
I would encourage other rocket owners to participate in these events,
experiment with your aircraft and find some different ways to get these
amazing aircraft even faster. With gains in top speed, comes gains in
efficiency which you will use on each and every flight.
Tom Martin
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ -
Andrew
Sent: January 8, 2010 1:01 AM
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft,
but
nothing, NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and some
of
you guys seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I true out at max
cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly 200 knots,
and
I've heard some people true out at 205, even 210? Is that true, anyone?
And as you say the speed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to
mention,
the pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL capabilities too.
Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best
economy
comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal friction of
the
engine. I wonder if you would have got even better figures at, say, 22"
MP
and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit is, for your engine...? I
believe that is the main "trick" that Lindbergh taught the aviators of
the
US Navy & Marine Corps in the Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was
sent
over to teach them to get maximum range and endurance from their steeds.
not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your basic point -
that
rockets rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :)
Andrew
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Guys,
More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of
this
little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at
forecast
winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and
really
get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10
gallon
aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my
Ly-Con
built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50
Degrees
LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM
I
consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed.
Being
a Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested
direct to
home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to
15,500
increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally
began my
descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board,
landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left.
My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize
tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it
truly
shows what John's design is capable of.
BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house,
looking forward to several thousand more!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
--- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote:
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the
Blackbird?(MWH)
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM
What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?
Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine.
As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the
question
I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be
assured of
hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an
interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but
there
really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a
little
more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute.
Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never
wanted
to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of
temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual
"high"
speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya
when
Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order.
Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us
to
Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen.
So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my
presentations,
someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?"
This was a first.
After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never
shared before, and relayed the following.
I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my
back-seater,
Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron
Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we
scooted
across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the
English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet
commander
there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating
moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low
approach. No
problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the
North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield.
Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back
seat,
and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds,
we
found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most
former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small
tower
and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and
that
I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees
as
far as I could see in the haze.
We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we
were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable.
Walt
said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my
windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in
hopes
of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the
cadet
commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order
to
get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind
and
partial gray overcast.
Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below
us
but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued
to
peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back,
the
awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my
flying
career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges.
As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart
stopped
and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At
this
point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank.
Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of
flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full
view
of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of
that
morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face
as
the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of
the
infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described
as
some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass.
Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall
without
incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes.
After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was
reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said
the
commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever
seen,
especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that
could
only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats
were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full
afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable.
Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that
morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our
low
approach.
As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight
suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass."
Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots.
What
did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred
fifty-two."
We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to
me
again!"
And I never did.
A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's
club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71
fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included
kids
falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their
eyebrows.
Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our
hands,
he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred.
Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low
approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane."
Impressive indeed.
Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that
day
that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories.
It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest
jet
can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to
keep
that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too.
nbsp; --> HYPERLINK "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"
\nhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
_sp; --> HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com" \nh - List
Contribution Web Site; &nb; HYPERLINK
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
\nhttp:======================
=
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron
href
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"http://www.matronics.com/
Nav
igator?Rocket-List
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
Checked by AVG.
6:16 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! |
From: | Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com> |
Hey Andrew,
I didn=B9t build my Rocket and am not inclined in that way so have not input
to your questions. I did want to say that I have the same issues with my
Rocket, I have pretty much full down elevator in cruise, and my plane is
left wing heavy, I have been trying to figure out a way to get the wing
issue worked out, nothing good yet. Haven=B9t gone into the tail issue but
have wondered how much speed I am loosing, I am sure it is substantial.
Looking forward to the answers.
Ernest
N540HB
On 1/9/10 3:27 AM, "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" wrote:
> Nice info, y'all.
>
> Unfortunately, being in NZ, I can't participate in these sorts of things.
Only
> two Rockets flying in NZ, that I know of - and another being built.
>
> I'd love to get another 10 knots or so out of my Rocket. I've noticed tha
t she
> flies with a LOT of down elevator (ie, forward stick) in the cruise, and
have
> wondered about resetting the incidence of the tail plane. She also needs
a
> little left aileron to fly straight, and this means both ailerons are alw
ays
> *slightly* defected. Are these sorts of things likely to rob serious spee
d?
> (As in, I don't care about 1-2 knots, but 10 or so, and I'd do something
about
> it.
>
> Would also be interested in the perspective of knowledgeable builder pilo
ts -
> I've heard of at least one Rocket fatality where the tail came apart, and
I'm
> told Mr Vans disapproves of our aircraft cos they're being pushed beyond
> design limits. Is there anything in this? As in, would it be worth
> dismantaling the horizontal and vertical stabs, and rebuilding with thick
er
> gauge steel? I know it's a big job.
>
> Any 'easy' ideas for speeding up Rockets? I've got 280 hp, and she's
> reasonably light, but does have some avionics of course. Not too many aer
ials
> etc. Feel free to contact off list - andrew at activenewzealand dot com.
>
> Cheers
>
> Andrew
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Tom Martin
> Sent: Sat 1/9/2010 5:30 AM
> To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
>
> Andrew
>
> I have been flying rockets for twelve years now and have been
> fortunate to have flown many different versions. All of them fly
> beautifully and I can honestly say that if I had to go back to other type
s
> of aircraft I probably would not fly very much. The last three years I h
ave
> participated in a few events held by the Sport Aircraft Racing League, SA
RL,
> HYPERLINK
> "http://sportairrace.org/index.html"http://sportairrace.org/index.html .
It
> has been a real learning experience and with constant experimentation I h
ave
> increased the top speed of my aircraft considerably. The average top spe
ed,
> full power, in three races this year was 220.2 knots. This was full
> throttle, 2650rpms.
>
> In the same three races Wayne Hadath with a stock engine, and a clean lig
ht
> stock F1 had a 212 knot average. The fastest RV8 is currently owned by J
ohn
> Huft, and he is right around the 200 knot range with his beautiful aircra
ft.
>
> I would encourage other rocket owners to participate in these events,
> experiment with your aircraft and find some different ways to get these
> amazing aircraft even faster. With gains in top speed, comes gains in
> efficiency which you will use on each and every flight.
>
>
>
> Tom Martin
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ -
> Andrew
> Sent: January 8, 2010 1:01 AM
> To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
>
>
>
> Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft, bu
t
> nothing, NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and some o
f
> you guys seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I true out at max
> cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly 200 knots, a
nd
> I've heard some people true out at 205, even 210? Is that true, anyone?
>
>
>
> And as you say the speed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to menti
on,
> the pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL capabilities too.
>
>
>
> Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best econo
my
> comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal friction of t
he
> engine. I wonder if you would have got even better figures at, say, 22" M
P
> and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit is, for your engine...? I
> believe that is the main "trick" that Lindbergh taught the aviators of th
e
> US Navy & Marine Corps in the Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sen
t
> over to teach them to get maximum range and endurance from their steeds.
>
>
>
> not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your basic point - that
> rockets rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :)
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray
> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM
> To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
>
>
> Guys,
>
> More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of this
> little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at foreca
st
> winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and really
> get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon
> aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-C
on
> built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degree
s
> LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM
I
> consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Bei
ng
> a Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct
to
> home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 15,500
> increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally began
my
> descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board,
> landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left.
>
> My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize
> tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly
> shows what John's design is capable of.
>
>
>
> BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house,
> looking forward to several thousand more!
>
>
>
> Rob "Smokey" Ray
>
> HR2
>
> --- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote:
>
>
> From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the
> Blackbird?(MWH)
> To: "'nico'"
> Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM
>
>
> What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?
>
> Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine.
>
> As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question
> I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured
of
> hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an
> interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but ther
e
> really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a littl
e
> more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute.
>
> Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never want
ed
> to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of
> temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high
"
> speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya wh
en
> Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order.
>
> Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us
to
> Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen.
>
> So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations
,
> someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?"
>
> This was a first.
>
> After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never
> shared before, and relayed the following.
>
> I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seate
r,
> Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron
> Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scoot
ed
> across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the
> English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet comman
der
> there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating
> moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach.
No
> problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the
> North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield.
>
> Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back sea
t,
> and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, w
e
> found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most
> former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small to
wer
> and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and t
hat
> I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees a
s
> far as I could see in the haze.
>
> We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we
> were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Wal
t
> said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my
> windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in ho
pes
> of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the ca
det
> commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to
> get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind
and
> partial gray overcast.
>
> Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us
> but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued
to
> peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, t
he
> awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my fly
ing
> career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges.
>
> As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopp
ed
> and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At t
his
> point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank.
>
> Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of
> flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full vi
ew
> of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that
> morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face a
s
> the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of t
he
> infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described a
s
> some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass.
>
> Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall with
out
> incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes.
>
> After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was
> reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the
> commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever see
n,
> especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that co
uld
> only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats
> were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full
> afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable.
>
> Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that
> morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our lo
w
> approach.
> As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight
> suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass."
>
> Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. Wha
t
> did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-tw
o."
>
> We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me
> again!"
>
> And I never did.
>
> A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's
> club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71
> fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included k
ids
> falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their
> eyebrows.
>
> Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hand
s,
> he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred.
> Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low
> approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane."
>
> Impressive indeed.
>
> Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that d
ay
> that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories.
> It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest je
t
> can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to ke
ep
> that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too.
> nbsp; --> HYPERLINK "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"
> \nhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
> _sp; --> HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com" \nh - List
> Contribution Web Site; &nb; HYPERLINK
> "http://www.matronics.com/contribution" \nhttp:=======================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhr
ef
> "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
> "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"http://www.matronics.com/
Nav
> igator?Rocket-List
> "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 6:16 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! |
Tom and others,
Have you ever noticed your Rocket yaws when you fly into the clouds. I
got significant vertigo the first few times I went IMC and then figured
out why. I noticed as I flew into the clouds my inner ear sensed a 30
deg left bank but the aircraft remained wings level. I noticed the ball
was out to the left and when I centered it, my vertigo went away.
Question, what the heck is causing the ball to slide left when flying
into the clouds? Btw, I have a plastic wedge on the left side of the
rudder which centers the ball in cruise flight, I suspect airflow over
it changes as the air density changes when flying into the clouds.
Anyone else experience such a strange phenomenon? Have an explanation?
Jim Stone
Louisville KY
275 Hours
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Martin
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Andrew
I have been flying rockets for twelve years now and have
been fortunate to have flown many different versions. All of them fly
beautifully and I can honestly say that if I had to go back to other
types of aircraft I probably would not fly very much. The last three
years I have participated in a few events held by the Sport Aircraft
Racing League, SARL, http://sportairrace.org/index.html . It has been a
real learning experience and with constant experimentation I have
increased the top speed of my aircraft considerably. The average top
speed, full power, in three races this year was 220.2 knots. This was
full throttle, 2650rpms.
In the same three races Wayne Hadath with a stock engine, and a clean
light stock F1 had a 212 knot average. The fastest RV8 is currently
owned by John Huft, and he is right around the 200 knot range with his
beautiful aircraft.
I would encourage other rocket owners to participate in these events,
experiment with your aircraft and find some different ways to get these
amazing aircraft even faster. With gains in top speed, comes gains in
efficiency which you will use on each and every flight.
Tom Martin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ -
Andrew
Sent: January 8, 2010 1:01 AM
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft,
but nothing, NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and
some of you guys seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I true
out at max cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly
200 knots, and I've heard some people true out at 205, even 210? Is that
true, anyone?
And as you say the speed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to
mention, the pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL capabilities too.
Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best
economy comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal
friction of the engine. I wonder if you would have got even better
figures at, say, 22" MP and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit
is, for your engine...? I believe that is the main "trick" that
Lindbergh taught the aviators of the US Navy & Marine Corps in the
Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent over to teach them to get
maximum range and endurance from their steeds.
not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your basic point -
that rockets rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :)
Andrew
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Guys,
More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the
capabilities of this little machine. Coming home from Dallas
post-Christmas I looked at forecast winds and thought I would try to one
hop it home, nearly 800NM and really get some efficiency numbers. With
54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon aux tanks) I launched, cruise
climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-Con built IO-540 with GAMI
injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degrees LOP and 33 degrees
advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I consistently
showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being a
Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct
to home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to
15,500 increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I
finally began my descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of
fuel on board, landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left.
My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my
oversize tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze,
but it truly shows what John's design is capable of.
BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the
house, looking forward to several thousand more!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
--- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote:
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the
Blackbird?(MWH)
To: "'nico'"
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM
What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?
Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine.
As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the
question
I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can
be assured of
hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's
an
interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed,
but there
really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give
you a little
more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a
minute.
Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and
never wanted
to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any
limits of
temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own
individual "high"
speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over
Libya when
Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order.
Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly
took us to
Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen.
So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my
presentations,
someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the
Blackbird?"
This was a first.
After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I
had never
shared before, and relayed the following.
I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my
back-seater,
Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and
the Iron
Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As
we scooted
across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF
base in the
English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air
cadet commander
there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a
motivating
moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low
approach. No
problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling
over the
North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield.
Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the
back seat,
and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic
speeds, we
found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze.
Like most
former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a
small tower
and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were
close and that
I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing
but trees as
far as I could see in the haze.
We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325
knots we
were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just
uncomfortable. Walt
said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing
in my
windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling
maneuver in hopes
of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile,
below, the cadet
commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in
order to
get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with
no wind and
partial gray overcast.
Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be
below us
but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we
continued to
peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our
power back, the
awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors
in my flying
career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges.
As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my
heart stopped
and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full
forward. At this
point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight
bank.
Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous
roar of
flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell
into full view
of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still
quiet of that
morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in
their face as
the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower
side of the
infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be
described as
some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass.
Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to
Mildenhall without
incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes.
After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both
certain he was
reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and
said the
commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had
ever seen,
especially how we had surprised them with such a precise
maneuver that could
only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the
cadet's hats
were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in
full
afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable.
Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very
well that
morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to
see our low
approach.
As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits
to flight
suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the
pass."
Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six
knots. What
did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred
fifty-two."
We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do
that to me
again!"
And I never did.
A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall
Officer's
club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an
SR-71
fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story
included kids
falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet
singed their
eyebrows.
Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in
our hands,
he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had
occurred.
Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a
routine low
approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane."
Impressive indeed.
Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my
audience that day
that it would become one of the most popular and most requested
stories.
It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's
fastest jet
can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good
idea to keep
that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too.
nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
_sp; --> h - List Contribution Web Site;
&nb;
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
Full down elevator at cruise? I hope you mean down trim... but then what happens
with a pax? More info needed! If what you say is true, then there are other
issues than speed to be worried about first.
Regarding a well known accident, the tail came off of a Rocket due to a MAJOR builder
error that absolutely would have been caught had the builder had nearly
any reasonably competent RV or Rocket builder do a pre-inspection inspection,
i.e. an inspection before the feds arrived and definitely before anyone flew
it. It really SUCKS that this happened so needlessly.
For goodness sakes guys, no matter how much of a stud you think you are, have at
least one, and preferably two sets of competent, independent eyes look over
your work before you fly a new bird. For example, we've got a local guy who has
flown since WWII and has been an engineer all his life. He's as sharp as anyone
I know, but he's had several (at least five) off airport excursions/incidents/accidents
in his homebuilt because he won't take advantage of the EAA tech
counselors or flight advisors. (The saying "You can always tell a german,
but you can't tell him much" applies here!) The gentleman in question is without
a doubt the luckiest man I know, but he really makes it tough on the rest
of us out here. He is also the most stubborn, hard headed person I know.
He also totaled his C-170 and then fixed it literally with duct tape, bailing wire,
and a sledge hammer. They're out there and walk among us. Amazing.
Back to the issues at hand. built right, there aren't any issues with the tails
coming off the Rockets.
Vince
www.flyboyaccessories.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
I was worried about the full down elevator and the yaw in rain stories. I
guess things have to be checked on those airframes before they defy gravity
again.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frazier,
Vincent A
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:47 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: speed issues
-->
Full down elevator at cruise? I hope you mean down trim... but then what
happens with a pax? More info needed! If what you say is true, then there
are other issues than speed to be worried about first.
Regarding a well known accident, the tail came off of a Rocket due to a
MAJOR builder error that absolutely would have been caught had the builder
had nearly any reasonably competent RV or Rocket builder do a pre-inspection
inspection, i.e. an inspection before the feds arrived and definitely before
anyone flew it. It really SUCKS that this happened so needlessly.
For goodness sakes guys, no matter how much of a stud you think you are,
have at least one, and preferably two sets of competent, independent eyes
look over your work before you fly a new bird. For example, we've got a
local guy who has flown since WWII and has been an engineer all his life.
He's as sharp as anyone I know, but he's had several (at least five) off
airport excursions/incidents/accidents in his homebuilt because he won't
take advantage of the EAA tech counselors or flight advisors. (The saying
"You can always tell a german, but you can't tell him much" applies here!)
The gentleman in question is without a doubt the luckiest man I know, but he
really makes it tough on the rest of us out here. He is also the most
stubborn, hard headed person I know.
He also totaled his C-170 and then fixed it literally with duct tape,
bailing wire, and a sledge hammer. They're out there and walk among us.
Amazing.
Back to the issues at hand. built right, there aren't any issues with the
tails coming off the Rockets.
Vince
www.flyboyaccessories.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: speed issues |
From: | Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com> |
Down trim is what was meant. Can you give us some idea as to what you are
talking about when you say there are other issues besides speed? I didn't
build my rocket but had it reviewed by an A&P before I bought it and he
signed off on it. Is there anything that needs to be evaluated due to the
down trim?
On 1/10/10 6:46 PM, "Frazier, Vincent A" wrote:
>
> Full down elevator at cruise? I hope you mean down trim... but then what
> happens with a pax? More info needed! If what you say is true, then there
> are other issues than speed to be worried about first.
>
> Regarding a well known accident, the tail came off of a Rocket due to a MAJOR
> builder error that absolutely would have been caught had the builder had
> nearly any reasonably competent RV or Rocket builder do a pre-inspection
> inspection, i.e. an inspection before the feds arrived and definitely before
> anyone flew it. It really SUCKS that this happened so needlessly.
>
> For goodness sakes guys, no matter how much of a stud you think you are, have
> at least one, and preferably two sets of competent, independent eyes look over
> your work before you fly a new bird. For example, we've got a local guy who
> has flown since WWII and has been an engineer all his life. He's as sharp as
> anyone I know, but he's had several (at least five) off airport
> excursions/incidents/accidents in his homebuilt because he won't take
> advantage of the EAA tech counselors or flight advisors. (The saying "You can
> always tell a german, but you can't tell him much" applies here!) The
> gentleman in question is without a doubt the luckiest man I know, but he
> really makes it tough on the rest of us out here. He is also the most
> stubborn, hard headed person I know.
>
> He also totaled his C-170 and then fixed it literally with duct tape, bailing
> wire, and a sledge hammer. They're out there and walk among us. Amazing.
>
> Back to the issues at hand. built right, there aren't any issues with the
> tails coming off the Rockets.
>
> Vince
> www.flyboyaccessories.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
SNIP From: Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com>
Down trim is what was meant. Can you give us some idea as to what you are talking
about when you say there are other issues besides speed? I didn't build my
rocket but had it reviewed by an A&P before I bought it and he signed off on
it. Is there anything that needs to be evaluated due to the down trim? SNIP
Ernest, SNIP
************************************************************************************************************
>From what you've said it would seem that you are using full nose down trim at
cruise. If you add a pax in the back, what happens then? Do you have to hold
forward pressure on the stick? If so, holy crap, doesn't your arm get tired!?
It sounds like you've got one of two possible problems:
1) your trim tab is sized or rigged improperly. Maybe your builder biased the trim
for more nose up travel to help with pattern speeds. If so, then maybe you
can adjust it back a little bit.
2) or more likely, your HS is rigged improperly
There are many ways to check your HS rigging, one way is listed here:
http://www.vincesrocket.com/finishing.htm
Basically, you can check your rigging with a level and a few simple shims. Level
the wing per the text, then go see what the HS incidence is. I'll bet it's
off.
If you find that the HS incidence is wrong, change it. It shouldn't be that difficult,
but get help as needed to make sure you do it right.
YMMV. Good luck.
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: speed issues |
Ernest,
--To answer your question I took my HR2 out yesterday evening during ou
r unseasonably cool FL Swamp weather (34 degrees F) and made some speed run
s specifically to look at my horizontal at various speeds. To compare, I kn
ow exactly where my RV4 was at different speeds in the 15 years I flew it a
nd I changed the incidence based on several RV8R articles and Van's input t
o level it at high cruise. My fear at that time was the slow speed STOL cha
racteristics would translate into a "float". None of this proved true and m
y RV4 actually trimmed and flew much better at high cruise after the change
.--I am approaching 1000 Rocket hours now, so I think I'm starting to g
et the hang of it too:)
--My Rocket was documented in the logs that they set the horizontal bas
ed on John's plans and incidence settings which I believe is 2 degrees down
incidence. It is a very early HR2 (1994) and has a stock RV4 tail with .02
0 tail feathers, stock HR2 cowling, 285HP Ly-Con IO540, 2 blade Hartzell D
twist and One EIectroair Electronic Ignition running Automotive Denso L14U
plugs, One Magneto running REM-37BY (hot) plugs, (my standard setup on my l
ast two airplanes). I have larger tires (380 X 150 X 5) Van's Pressure reco
very pants set high enough to clear 3" stones and a large size Aviation pro
ducts dual fork tailwheel.----At 1/2 fuel, a 100 LB passenger 23 sq
uared and 2000 MSL yesterday I was indicating 208 mph and showing 171 Knots
GS, elevator trim level, elevator very slightly up. At 24 squared speed in
creased to 223 MPH indicated, 184 Knots GS. elevator trim 3 degrees down, e
levator perfectly level. 25 squared yielded 235 MPH, 195 Knots GS, trim
two full clicks down (5 degrees) and still a level elevator. Full throttle
showed 29" MP, 2750 RPM, 252 MPH 209 Knots GS, 3 clicks (8 degrees fwd) an
d elevator level. The amazing part is I came back to my 1500 foot strip and
my FAS was 63 Knots over the trees, touchdown at 58 Knots.-What a great
airplane!-
Hope this data helps.
Rob "Smokey" RayHR2
--- On Sun, 1/10/10, Ernest Hale wrote:
From: Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: speed issues
Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 6:46 PM
Down trim is what was meant.- Can you give us some idea as to what you ar
e
talking about when you say there are other issues besides speed?- I didn'
t
build my rocket but had it reviewed by an A&P before I bought it and he
signed off on it.- Is there anything that needs to be evaluated due to th
e
down trim?
On 1/10/10 6:46 PM, "Frazier, Vincent A" wrote:
>
>
> Full down elevator at cruise?- I hope you mean down trim... but then wh
at
> happens with a pax?- More info needed!- If what you say is true, then
there
> are other issues than speed to be worried about first.
>
> Regarding a well known accident, the tail came off of a Rocket due to a M
AJOR
> builder error that absolutely would have been caught had the builder had
> nearly any reasonably competent RV or Rocket builder do a pre-inspection
> inspection, i.e. an inspection before the feds arrived and definitely bef
ore
> anyone flew it.---It really SUCKS that this happened so needlessly.
>
> For goodness sakes guys, no matter how much of a stud you think you are,
have
> at least one, and preferably two sets of competent, independent eyes look
over
> your work before you fly a new bird.- For example, we've got a local gu
y who
> has flown since WWII and has been an engineer all his life.- He's as sh
arp as
> anyone I know, but he's had several (at least five) off airport
> excursions/incidents/accidents in his homebuilt because he won't take
> advantage of the EAA tech counselors or flight advisors.- (The saying "
You can
> always tell a german, but you can't tell him much" applies here!)- The
> gentleman in question is without a doubt the luckiest man I know, but he
> really makes it tough on the rest of us out here.- He is also the most
> stubborn, hard headed person I know.
>
> He also totaled his C-170 and then fixed it literally with duct tape, bai
ling
> wire, and a sledge hammer.- They're out there and walk among us. Amazin
g.
>
> Back to the issues at hand. built right, there aren't any issues with the
> tails coming off the Rockets.
>
> Vince
> www.flyboyaccessories.com
>
>
>
>
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! |
G'day again Andy,
--To answer your question, yes, I have LR tanks, a design identical to
Hotel Whiskey Aviation's (Safe Air One) tanks that slide through the lighte
ning holes in the wing forward of the spar with the largest portion inside
the tip, five gallons each for a total capacity of 54 gallons. Mine utilize
a check valve which requires no separate valves, settings, pumps or otherw
ise to drain, gravity and vent pressure drain them dry every time.---
Maximum range cruise I have tried many settings but -20"/2350 RPM between
8500 and 10500 feet 50 LOP and 33 degrees advance with the GAMI injectors
seems to deliver the best speed/economy. This equates to 10.5 GPH at 183 Kn
ots TAS. On one occasion searching for a lost child in the swamp I set 20/2
0 leaned to peak and saw 6.5 GPH at 125 knots flying search patterns for ov
er five hours and and still had enough fuel left to fly 200NM home at high
cruise!-
Your mileage may vary:)
SmokeyHR2
--- On Sat, 1/9/10, Jim Stone wrote:
From: Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 7:57 AM
=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0ATom and others,=0AHave y
ou ever noticed your Rocket yaws when you fly =0Ainto the clouds.- I got
significant vertigo the first few times I went IMC =0Aand then figured out
why.- I noticed as I flew into the clouds my inner ear =0Asensed a 30 deg
left bank but the aircraft remained wings level.- I noticed =0Athe ball
was out to the left and when I centered it, my vertigo went away.- =0AQue
stion, what the heck is causing the ball to slide left when flying into the
=0Aclouds?- Btw, I have a plastic wedge on the left side of the rudder w
hich =0Acenters the ball in cruise flight, I suspect airflow over it change
s as the air =0Adensity changes when flying into the clouds.- Anyone else
experience such a =0Astrange phenomenon?- Have an explanation?=0AJim Sto
ne =0ALouisville KY=0A275 Hours=0A=0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A Fr
om: =0A Tom =0A Martin =0A To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com =0A Sent: Frid
ay, January 08, 2010 11:07 =0A AM=0A Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket =0A
Efficiency, Defined!=0A
=0A =0A Andrew =0A ----------- =0A I have been fl
ying rockets for twelve years now and have been fortunate to =0A have flow
n many different versions. -All of them fly beautifully and I =0A can ho
nestly say that if I had to go back to other types of aircraft I =0A proba
bly would not fly very much. -The last three years I have =0A participat
ed in a few events held by the Sport Aircraft Racing League, SARL, =0A htt
p://sportairrace.org/index.html =0A . -It has been a real learning exper
ience and with constant =0A experimentation I have increased the top speed
of my aircraft =0A considerably.- The average top speed, full power, in
three races this =0A year was 220.2 knots. -This was full throttle, =0A
2650rpms. =0A In the same three =0A races Wayne Hadath with a stock eng
ine, and a clean light stock F1 had a 212 =0A knot average.- The fastest
RV8 is currently owned by John Huft, and he is =0A right around the 200 k
not range with his beautiful =0A aircraft. =0A I would encourage =0A oth
er rocket owners to participate in these events, experiment with your =0A
aircraft and find some different ways to get these amazing aircraft even
=0A faster. -With gains in top speed, comes gains in efficiency which yo
u =0A will use on each and every flight. - =0A - =0A Tom =0A Marti
n =0A - =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A From: =0A owner-rocket-list-server@ma
tronics.com =0A [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
Of ACTIVE NZ - =0A Andrew
Sent: January 8, 2010 =0A 1:01 AM
To:=0A rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket =0A Efficiency, Defined! =0A - =0A C
ouldn't agree more =0A Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft,
but nothing, NOTHING, =0A can- touch-my Rocket. Except another Rocket,
and some of you guys =0A seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I
-true out at-max =0A cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet)
at exactly 200-knots, =0A and I've heard some people true out at 205, e
ven 210? Is that true, =0A anyone? =0A - =0A And as you say the =0A s
peed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to mention, the pretty damn go
od =0A "go-slow" STOL capabilities too. =0A - =0A Only tiny Q I have i
s =0A that I was under the impression that the best economy comes from low
er RPMs, =0A partly or wholly cos of the internal friction of the engine.
I wonder if you =0A would have got even better figures at, say, 22" MP and
2000 rpm? Or whatever =0A the lowest RPM limit is, for your engine...? I
believe that is the main =0A "trick" that Lindbergh taught the aviators of
the US Navy & Marine Corps =0A in the Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he
was sent over to teach them to get =0A maximum range and endurance from t
heir steeds. =0A - =0A not trying to argue, =0A just thought I'd menti
on it. Your basic point - that rockets rock - is pretty =0A indisputable I
reckon :) =0A - =0A Andrew =0A - =0A =0A =0A =0A From: =0A ow
ner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com =0A [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@
matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 =0A AM
To:=0A rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, =0A Defined! =0A =0A =0A
=0A =0A =0A Guys, =0A More on a Rocket note, I am
constantly amazed by =0A the capabilities of this little machine. C
oming home from=0A Dallas =0A post-Christmas I looked at forecast wi
nds and thought I would try to one =0A hop it home, nearly 800NM and
really get some efficiency numbers. With =0A 54 gallons of 100LL on
board( 10 gallon aux tanks) I launched, cruise =0A climbed to 11,50
0 and after letting my Ly-Con built IO-540 with GAMI =0A injectors s
ettle down I began to lean to 50 Degrees LOP and 33 degrees =0A adva
nce on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I consistently =0A
showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being a =0A
Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct
=0A to home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climb
ed to =0A 15,500 increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF
. When I =0A finally began my descent into the swamp I still had nea
rly 20 gallons of =0A fuel on board, landing on my 1500 ft grass str
ip with 16 gallons =0A left.- =0A =0A --My Rock
et is definitely not the =0A fastest on the block with my oversize t
ires, caked mud and large =0A tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but
it truly shows what John's design =0A is capable of.- =0A
=0A - =0A =0A BTW, the tach almost clicked over 100
0 hours as =0A I flew over the house, looking forward to several tho
usand =0A more! =0A =0A - =0A =0A Rob
"Smokey" =0A Ray =0A =0A HR2
--- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css =0A wrote:
=0A
From: nico css =0A <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was =0A the slowest you ever flew the
Blackbird?(MWH)
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 =0A PM =0A =0A
ore.com>
What =0A was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?
Brian Shul, Retired =0A SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine.
As a former SR-71 =0A pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the
question
I'm most =0A often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can b
e assured =0A of
hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's =0A
an
interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, =0A
but there
really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always =0A give yo
u a little
more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to =0A see 35 miles a
minute.
Because we flew a programmed Mach number =0A on most missions, and n
ever wanted
to harm the plane in any way, we =0A never let it run out to any lim
its of
temperature or speed. Thus, =0A each SR-71 pilot had his own individ
ual "high"
speed that he saw at =0A some point on some mission. I saw mine over
=0A Libya =0A when
Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in =0A order.
Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and =0A effortlessly
took us to
Mach numbers we hadn't previously =0A seen.
So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my =0A pres
entations,
someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the =0A Blackbird
?"
This was a first.
After giving it some =0A thought, I was reminded of a story that I h
ad never
shared before, =0A and relayed the following.
I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF =0A Mildenhall,=0A England , with
my =0A back-seater,
Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over =0A Europe and th
e Iron
Curtain when we =0A received a radio transmission from home base. As
we scooted
across =0A=0A Denmark in three minutes, we =0A learned that a
small RAF base in the
English countryside had =0A requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cad
et commander
there was a =0A former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a mo
tivating
moment =0A for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low
approach. =0A No
problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling =0A
over the
North Sea , we proceeded to =0A find the small airfield.
Walter had a myriad of sophisticated =0A navigation equipment in the
back seat,
and began to vector me toward =0A the field. Descending to subsonic
speeds, we
found ourselves over a =0A densely wooded area in a slight haze. Lik
e most
former WWII British =0A airfields, the one we were looking for had a
small tower
and little =0A surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were cl
ose and that
I =0A should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing bu
t trees =0A as
far as I could see in the haze.
We got a little lower, and =0A I pulled the throttles back from 325
knots we
were at. With the gear =0A up, anything under 275 was just uncomfort
able. Walt
said we were =0A practically over the field-yet; there was nothing i
n my
windscreen. I =0A banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneu
ver in hopes
of =0A picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, belo
w, the =0A cadet
commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower =0A in
order to
get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still =0A day with
no wind and
partial gray overcast.
Walter continued =0A to give me indications that the field should be
below us
but in the =0A overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we c
ontinued to
peer =0A out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our powe
r back, =0A the
awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors =0A
in my flying
career, as something told me I better cross-check the =0A gauges.
As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 =0A knots, my he
art stopped
and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two =0A throttles full forw
ard. At this
point we weren't really flying, but =0A were falling in a slight ban
k.
Just at the moment that both =0A afterburners lit with a thunderous
roar of
flame (and what a joyous =0A feeling that was) the aircraft fell int
o full view
of the shocked =0A observers on the tower. Shattering the still quie
t of that
morning, =0A they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in the
ir face as
the =0A plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower
side of =0A the
infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be =0A de
scribed as
some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass.
Quickly =0A reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Milden
hall =0A without
incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 =0A minutes.
After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were =0A both certai
n he was
reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily =0A shook our hands and
said the
commander had told him it was the =0A greatest SR-71 fly-past he had
ever seen,
especially how we had =0A surprised them with such a precise maneuve
r that could
only be =0A described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cade
t's hats
were =0A blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in
=0A full
afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. =0A
Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very =0A we
ll that
morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited =0A to s
ee our low
approach.
As we retired to the equipment room to =0A change from space suits t
o flight
suits, we just sat there-we hadn't =0A spoken a word since "the pass
."
Finally, Walter looked at me and =0A said, "One hundred fifty-six kn
ots.- What
did you see?" Trying =0A to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred
fifty-two."
We sat in =0A silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do t
hat to =0A me
again!"
And I never did.
A year later, Walter and I =0A were having lunch in the Mildenhall O
fficer's
club, and overheard an =0A officer talking to some cadets about an S
R-71
fly-past that he had =0A seen one day. Of course, by now the story i
ncluded kids
falling off =0A the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singe
d their
eyebrows. =0A
Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in =0A
our hands,
he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had =0A occurr
ed.
Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a =0A routi
ne low
approach; they're pretty impressive in that =0A plane."
Impressive indeed.
Little did I realize after =0A relaying this experience to my audien
ce that day
that it would become =0A one of the most popular and most requested
stories.
It's ironic that =0A people are interested in how slow the world's f
astest jet
can fly. =0A Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good i
dea to =0A keep
that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, =0A too.
nbsp;---> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
_sp;---> =0A h - - =0A - - ---- List Contribu
tion Web Site; - =0A - - - - - - - - - &nb; =0A
http:=====================
==
=0A - =0A - - -href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http:/
/forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
www.matronics.com/c - -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-Listht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution -Checked by AVG.
Checked by =0A AVG.
=======================0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Rocket Efficiency, Defined! |
Did you guys find the kid?
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
G'day again Andy,
To answer your question, yes, I have LR tanks, a design identical to Hotel
Whiskey Aviation's (Safe Air One) tanks that slide through the lightening
holes in the wing forward of the spar with the largest portion inside the
tip, five gallons each for a total capacity of 54 gallons. Mine utilize a
check valve which requires no separate valves, settings, pumps or otherwise
to drain, gravity and vent pressure drain them dry every time.
Maximum range cruise I have tried many settings but 20"/2350 RPM between
8500 and 10500 feet 50 LOP and 33 degrees advance with the GAMI injectors
seems to deliver the best speed/economy. This equates to 10.5 GPH at 183
Knots TAS. On one occasion searching for a lost child in the swamp I set
20/20 leaned to peak and saw 6.5 GPH at 125 knots flying search patterns for
over five hours and and still had enough fuel left to fly 200NM home at high
cruise!
Your mileage may vary:)
Smokey
HR2
--- On Sat, 1/9/10, Jim Stone wrote:
From: Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 7:57 AM
Tom and others,
Have you ever noticed your Rocket yaws when you fly into the clouds. I got
significant vertigo the first few times I went IMC and then figured out why.
I noticed as I flew into the clouds my inner ear sensed a 30 deg left bank
but the aircraft remained wings level. I noticed the ball was out to the
left and when I centered it, my vertigo went away. Question, what the heck
is causing the ball to slide left when flying into the clouds? Btw, I have
a plastic wedge on the left side of the rudder which centers the ball in
cruise flight, I suspect airflow over it changes as the air density changes
when flying into the clouds. Anyone else experience such a strange
phenomenon? Have an explanation?
Jim Stone
Louisville KY
275 Hours
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Martin
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Andrew
I have been flying rockets for twelve years now and have been
fortunate to have flown many different versions. All of them fly
beautifully and I can honestly say that if I had to go back to other types
of aircraft I probably would not fly very much. The last three years I have
participated in a few events held by the Sport Aircraft Racing League, SARL,
http://sportairrace.org/index.html . It has been a real learning experience
and with constant experimentation I have increased the top speed of my
aircraft considerably. The average top speed, full power, in three races
this year was 220.2 knots. This was full throttle, 2650rpms.
In the same three races Wayne Hadath with a stock engine, and a clean light
stock F1 had a 212 knot average. The fastest RV8 is currently owned by John
Huft, and he is right around the 200 knot range with his beautiful aircraft.
I would encourage other rocket owners to participate in these events,
experiment with your aircraft and find some different ways to get these
amazing aircraft even faster. With gains in top speed, comes gains in
efficiency which you will use on each and every flight.
Tom Martin
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ -
Andrew
Sent: January 8, 2010 1:01 AM
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft, but
nothing, NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and some of
you guys seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I true out at max
cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly 200 knots, and
I've heard some people true out at 205, even 210? Is that true, anyone?
And as you say the speed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to mention,
the pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL capabilities too.
Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best economy
comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal friction of the
engine. I wonder if you would have got even better figures at, say, 22" MP
and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit is, for your engine...? I
believe that is the main "trick" that Lindbergh taught the aviators of the
US Navy & Marine Corps in the Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent
over to teach them to get maximum range and endurance from their steeds.
not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your basic point - that
rockets rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :)
Andrew
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Guys,
More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of this
little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at forecast
winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and really
get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon
aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-Con
built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degrees
LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I
consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being
a Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct to
home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 15,500
increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally began my
descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board,
landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left.
My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize
tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly
shows what John's design is capable of.
BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house,
looking forward to several thousand more!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
--- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote:
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the
Blackbird?(MWH)
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM
What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?
Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine.
As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question
I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured of
hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an
interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there
really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little
more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute.
Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted
to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of
temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high"
speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when
Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order.
Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to
Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen.
So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations,
someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?"
This was a first.
After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never
shared before, and relayed the following.
I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England , with my back-seater,
Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron
Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted
across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the
English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander
there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating
moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No
problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the
North Sea , we proceeded to find the small airfield.
Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat,
and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we
found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most
former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower
and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that
I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as
far as I could see in the haze.
We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we
were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt
said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my
windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes
of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet
commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to
get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and
partial gray overcast.
Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us
but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to
peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the
awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying
career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges.
As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped
and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this
point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank.
Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of
flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view
of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that
morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as
the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the
infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as
some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass.
Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without
incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes.
After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was
reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the
commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen,
especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could
only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats
were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full
afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable.
Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that
morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low
approach.
As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight
suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass."
Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. What
did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two."
We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me
again!"
And I never did.
A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's
club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71
fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids
falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their
eyebrows.
Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands,
he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred.
Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low
approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane."
Impressive indeed.
Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day
that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories.
It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet
can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep
that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too.
nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
_sp; --> h <http://forums.matronics.com> - List Contribution Web
Site; &nb; http:=======================
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Checked by AVG.
Checked by AVG.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-Lofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">h
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Rocket Efficiency, Defined! |
From: | "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" <andrew(at)nzactive.com> |
Thx for the info, y'all. Will seriously consider prop upgrade at
overhaul time. Or before :) An extra 10 knots would be marvellous!
Andrew
________________________________
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:00 AM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
G'day again Andy,
To answer your question, yes, I have LR tanks, a design identical to
Hotel Whiskey Aviation's (Safe Air One) tanks that slide through the
lightening holes in the wing forward of the spar with the largest
portion inside the tip, five gallons each for a total capacity of 54
gallons. Mine utilize a check valve which requires no separate valves,
settings, pumps or otherwise to drain, gravity and vent pressure drain
them dry every time.
Maximum range cruise I have tried many settings but 20"/2350 RPM
between 8500 and 10500 feet 50 LOP and 33 degrees advance with the GAMI
injectors seems to deliver the best speed/economy. This equates to 10.5
GPH at 183 Knots TAS. On one occasion searching for a lost child in the
swamp I set 20/20 leaned to peak and saw 6.5 GPH at 125 knots flying
search patterns for over five hours and and still had enough fuel left
to fly 200NM home at high cruise!
Your mileage may vary:)
Smokey
HR2
--- On Sat, 1/9/10, Jim Stone wrote:
From: Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 7:57 AM
Tom and others,
Have you ever noticed your Rocket yaws when you fly into the
clouds. I got significant vertigo the first few times I went IMC and
then figured out why. I noticed as I flew into the clouds my inner ear
sensed a 30 deg left bank but the aircraft remained wings level. I
noticed the ball was out to the left and when I centered it, my vertigo
went away. Question, what the heck is causing the ball to slide left
when flying into the clouds? Btw, I have a plastic wedge on the left
side of the rudder which centers the ball in cruise flight, I suspect
airflow over it changes as the air density changes when flying into the
clouds. Anyone else experience such a strange phenomenon? Have an
explanation?
Jim Stone
Louisville KY
275 Hours
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Martin
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Andrew
I have been flying rockets for twelve years
now and have been fortunate to have flown many different versions. All
of them fly beautifully and I can honestly say that if I had to go back
to other types of aircraft I probably would not fly very much. The last
three years I have participated in a few events held by the Sport
Aircraft Racing League, SARL, http://sportairrace.org/index.html . It
has been a real learning experience and with constant experimentation I
have increased the top speed of my aircraft considerably. The average
top speed, full power, in three races this year was 220.2 knots. This
was full throttle, 2650rpms.
In the same three races Wayne Hadath with a stock
engine, and a clean light stock F1 had a 212 knot average. The fastest
RV8 is currently owned by John Huft, and he is right around the 200 knot
range with his beautiful aircraft.
I would encourage other rocket owners to participate in
these events, experiment with your aircraft and find some different ways
to get these amazing aircraft even faster. With gains in top speed,
comes gains in efficiency which you will use on each and every flight.
Tom Martin
________________________________
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ -
Andrew
Sent: January 8, 2010 1:01 AM
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of
different aircraft, but nothing, NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except
another Rocket, and some of you guys seem to have slightly faster ones
than I do - I true out at max cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle,
5000-10,000 feet) at exactly 200 knots, and I've heard some people true
out at 205, even 210? Is that true, anyone?
And as you say the speed/economy equation is
extraordinary - not to mention, the pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL
capabilities too.
Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression
that the best economy comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the
internal friction of the engine. I wonder if you would have got even
better figures at, say, 22" MP and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM
limit is, for your engine...? I believe that is the main "trick" that
Lindbergh taught the aviators of the US Navy & Marine Corps in the
Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent over to teach them to get
maximum range and endurance from their steeds.
not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your
basic point - that rockets rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :)
Andrew
________________________________
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Guys,
More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of
this little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at
forecast winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM
and really get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on
board( 10 gallon aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and
after letting my Ly-Con built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I
began to lean to 50 Degrees LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With
just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235
Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being a Saturday and knowing the
Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct to home, straight over
the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 15,500 increasing my GS
to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally began my descent into
the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board, landing on my
1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left.
My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize
tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it
truly shows what John's design is capable of.
BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house,
looking forward to several thousand more!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
--- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote:
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the
Blackbird?(MWH)
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM
What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?
Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine.
As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the
question
I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be
assured of
hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an
interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but
there
really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a
little
more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute.
Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never
wanted
to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of
temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual
"high"
speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya
when
Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order.
Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us
to
Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen.
So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my
presentations,
someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?"
This was a first.
After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never
shared before, and relayed the following.
I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England , with my
back-seater,
Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron
Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we
scooted
across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the
English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet
commander
there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating
moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low
approach. No
problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the
North Sea , we proceeded to find the small airfield.
Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back
seat,
and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds,
we
found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most
former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small
tower
and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and
that
I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees
as
far as I could see in the haze.
We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we
were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable.
Walt
said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my
windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in
hopes
of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the
cadet
commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order
to
get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind
and
partial gray overcast.
Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below
us
but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued
to
peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back,
the
awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my
flying
career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges.
As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart
stopped
and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At
this
point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank.
Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of
flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full
view
of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of
that
morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face
as
the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of
the
infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described
as
some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass.
Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall
without
incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes.
After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was
reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said
the
commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever
seen,
especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that
could
only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats
were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full
afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable.
Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that
morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our
low
approach.
As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight
suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass."
Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots.
What
did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred
fifty-two."
We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to
me
again!"
And I never did.
A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's
club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71
fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included
kids
falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their
eyebrows.
Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our
hands,
he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred.
Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low
approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane."
Impressive indeed.
Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that
day
that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories.
It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest
jet
can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to
keep
that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too.
nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
_sp; --> h - List Contribution Web Site;
&nb; <http://forums.matronics.com>
http:=======================
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron
h
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Checked by AVG.
Checked by AVG.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-Lofollow"
target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">h
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" <andrew(at)nzactive.com> |
Vince, I'm not sure if you're responding to my post, but if so, yes, I
mean down elevator, not down trim. I'm no aerodynamicist of course. What
I mean is, at cruise, the elevator is deflected down quite a bit. By no
means full elevator tho, which is why I wonder if you're responding to
another post. Under these conditions, the trim, of course, is set in a
manner which holds it there. I guess I was wondering if having a setup
so that the elevator chord and the HS chord were on the same line would
be better.
I'll look into it more closely at different loadings.
Thanks for the advice re tails coming off. I didn't build my Rocket, but
consulted with the builder who was clear that he built it to plan. It
was his 3rd or 4th homebuilt, and I think he knows what he's doing. The
rocket has 1000 hrTT, of which 600 hrs have been mine, and no probs yet.
Of course, a departing part of the tail feathers is the kind of prob you
only have once. I completely agree with your thoughts about getting a
few pairs of extra, expert, eyes to look over one's work.
So, no serious issues with tails in the fleet? Great.I have nonetheless
been wondering about rebuilding the tail with thicker metal, especially
cos I deal with a lot of mountain-induced turbulence in NZ, and it's
hard to get down from cruise speed to VA in a hurry, without shock
cooling. Obviously better anticipatin of turbulence is part of the
PILOT solution. I've just been wondering about a *metalurgical* solution
too.
Cheers
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frazier,
Vincent A
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:16 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: speed issues
-->
Full down elevator at cruise? I hope you mean down trim... but then
what happens with a pax? More info needed! If what you say is true,
then there are other issues than speed to be worried about first.
Regarding a well known accident, the tail came off of a Rocket due to a
MAJOR builder error that absolutely would have been caught had the
builder had nearly any reasonably competent RV or Rocket builder do a
pre-inspection inspection, i.e. an inspection before the feds arrived
and definitely before anyone flew it. It really SUCKS that this
happened so needlessly.
For goodness sakes guys, no matter how much of a stud you think you are,
have at least one, and preferably two sets of competent, independent
eyes look over your work before you fly a new bird. For example, we've
got a local guy who has flown since WWII and has been an engineer all
his life. He's as sharp as anyone I know, but he's had several (at
least five) off airport excursions/incidents/accidents in his homebuilt
because he won't take advantage of the EAA tech counselors or flight
advisors. (The saying "You can always tell a german, but you can't tell
him much" applies here!) The gentleman in question is without a doubt
the luckiest man I know, but he really makes it tough on the rest of us
out here. He is also the most stubborn, hard headed person I know.
He also totaled his C-170 and then fixed it literally with duct tape,
bailing wire, and a sledge hammer. They're out there and walk among us.
Amazing.
Back to the issues at hand. built right, there aren't any issues with
the tails coming off the Rockets.
Vince
www.flyboyaccessories.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | hr2pilot(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Fwd: Looking for a Rocket |
Apple-Mail-5--169183970--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fwd: Looking for a Rocket |
----- Original Message -----
From: <hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 1:53 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: Fwd: Looking for a Rocket
> Apple-Mail-5--169183970--
>
> John, I don't see what you forwarded to the list.
Jim
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Harmon <hr2pilot(at)aol.com> |
Subject: | Fwd: Looking for a Rocket |
Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:
> From: John Harmon <harmonrocket(at)aol.com>
> Date: January 17, 2010 10:35:39 AM PST
> To: hr2pilot(at)aol.com
> Subject: Fwd: Looking for a Rocket
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: careytn(at)comcast.net
>> Date: January 17, 2010 4:30:02 AM PST
>> To: harmonrocket(at)aol.com
>> Subject: Re: Looking for a Rocket
>>
>
>> Hello again John, Amy --
>>
>> Thanks again for your previous Harmon Rocket info -- still very
>> interested in test flying / buying an existing Rocket -- have stuck
>> out couple times now as planes have been sold before I can get to
>> them from here in Virginia. I regularly check Barnstormers / Trade-
>> a-Plane / Controller.com.
>>
>> REQUEST -- If you know of well-built Rockets coming up for sale any
>> time in the future, would greatly appreciate an email or call.
>>
>> ALSO, if you know an owner, preferably on the East Coast, who'd be
>> willing to fly me, would appreciate contact info. Gladly cover all
>> expenses.
>>
>> (I am looking for IFR-capable Rocket if possible, as I need travel
>> flexibility; though budget-limited, would consider any you think
>> well-built.)
>>
>> Thanks, love your plane
>>
>> Tim Carey
>> (USAF, retired)
>> Dulles Aviation, Inc.
>> Manassas Regional Airport (KHEF)
>> Home 703 590-2536
>> Cell 703 863-2981
>> careytn(at)comcast.net
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: harmonrocket(at)aol.com
>> To: careytn(at)comcast.net
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 2:30:19 PM GMT -05:00 Colombia
>> Subject: Re: Rocket
>>
>>
>> SCHOOLER FLYING CO
>> 100 PIPER AVE
>> CHICO, CA 95973
>> 530-899-0101
>>
>> If you need anything further let us know!
>>
>> Thank You,
>>
>>
>> Amy Osorio
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: careytn(at)comcast.net
>> To: harmonrocket(at)aol.com
>> Sent: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 9:10 am
>> Subject: Re: Rocket
>>
>> Thanks John --
>>
>> Are you able to give me name / contact info for the builder at Chico?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: harmonrocket(at)aol.com
>> To: careytn(at)comcast.net
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:20:36 AM GMT -05:00 Colombia
>> Subject: Rocket
>>
>> There are a couple of Rockets at Grassvally and a builder at the
>> Chico airport.
>> You well find the Rocket easer to handle than the Cub or the Nocker
>> John
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fwd: Looking for a Rocket |
John,
--I would be interested in chatting with Tim, my 13 year old HR2 (N760R
F) is a nice one and I might sell to the right person.
Rob "Smokey" Ray
--- On Sun, 1/17/10, John Harmon wrote:
From: John Harmon <hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: Fwd: Looking for a Rocket
Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 1:34 PM
Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:
From: John Harmon <harmonrocket(at)aol.com>
Date: January 17, 2010 10:35:39 AM PST
Subject: Fwd: Looking for a Rocket
Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:
From: careytn(at)comcast.net
Date: January 17, 2010 4:30:02 AM PST
Subject: Re: Looking for a Rocket
Hello again John, Amy --
Thanks again for your previous Harmon Rocket info -- still very interested
in test flying / buying an existing Rocket -- have stuck out couple times n
ow as planes have been sold before I can get to them from here in Virginia.
- I regularly check Barnstormers / Trade-a-Plane / Controller.com.
-
REQUEST -- If you know of well-built Rockets coming up for sale any time in
the future, would greatly appreciate an email or call.
ALSO, if you know an owner, preferably on the East Coast, who'd be willing
to fly me, would appreciate contact info.- Gladly cover all expenses.
(I am looking for IFR-capable Rocket if possible, as I need travel flexibil
ity; though budget-limited, would consider any you think well-built.)-
Thanks, love your plane
Tim Carey
(USAF, retired)
Dulles Aviation, Inc.
Manassas Regional Airport (KHEF)
Home 703 590-2536
Cell - - 703 863-2981
careytn(at)comcast.net
-
----- Original Message -----
From: harmonrocket(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 2:30:19 PM GMT -05:00 Colombia
Subject: Re: Rocket
=0A-=0A=0A=0ASCHOOLER FLYING CO
=0A100 PIPER AVE
=0ACHICO, CA 95973
=0A530-899-0101=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0AIf you need anything further let us kno
w!=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0AThank You,=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0AAmy Osori
o=0A=0A=0A
=0A
=0A-----Original Message-----
=0AFrom: careytn(at)comcast.net
=0ATo: harmonrocket(at)aol.com
=0ASent: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 9:10 am
=0ASubject: Re: Rocket
=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A#yiv1813718231 #AOLMsgPart_2_fa6f191f-c7ff-441f-b1c4-93b6f25
925c2 p {margin:0;}=0A=0A=0AThanks John --
=0A
=0AAre you able to give me name / contact info for the builder at Chico?
=0A
=0ATim
=0A
=0A----- Original Message -----
=0AFrom: harmonrocket(at)aol.com
=0ATo: careytn(at)comcast.net
=0ASent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:20:36 AM GMT -05:00 Colombia
=0ASubject: Rocket
=0A
=0A=0A=0AThere are a couple of Rockets at Grassvally and a builder at the C
hico airport.=0A=0A=0AYou well find the Rocket easer to handle than the Cub
-========================
============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | FW: [TruthByRushDelivery] What are we thinking? |
Finally, another brain spike!
<http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2010/01/what-are-we-thinking.html>
TruthByRushDelivery
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Branden Hartman <hondaguy46041(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | FW: [TruthByRushDelivery] What are we thinking? |
Please remove me from the list.
From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
Subject: Rocket-List: FW: [TruthByRushDelivery] What are we thinking?
Date: Fri=2C 22 Jan 2010 08:19:32 -0800
Finally=2C another brain spike!
TruthByRushDelivery
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "ray axley" <captrayj(at)netscape.com> |
Subject: | RE: Rocket-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 02/17/10 |
Please remove me from your list..thank ray axley captrayj(at)comcast.net
captrayj(at)netscape.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rocket-List
Digest Server
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:59 AM
Subject: Rocket-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 02/17/10
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Rocket-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Rocket-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
10-02-17&Archive=Rocket
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
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===============================================
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Rocket-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 02/17/10: 0
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Today's Message Index:
----------------------
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4871 (20100216) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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database 4871 (20100216) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traffic her
e? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL At ha
ller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at www
.flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions =0A-Dan Weseman -=0A
=0A________________________________=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bowen Miles <cessna170bdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
Dan,
-
There seems to be only occasional traffic here on the Rocket List. There's
a little more on Vans Air Force at http://www.vansairforce.com/community/fo
rumdisplay.php?f.
-
Miles
Tehachapi, CA
-
SLOWLY plugging away on HRII #211.
--- On Thu, 2/18/10, Daniel Weseman wrote:
From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: new guy
Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 2:50 PM
Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traffic her
e? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL At ha
ller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at www
.flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions
-Dan Weseman
-
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Fred LaForge" <fred.laforge(at)verizon.net> |
Welcome to the group Daniel. Most of us Rocket builders are
second time builders like you, so its kinda quiet here. But if you have
a question, Im sure someone will help. Good luck with your project.
Fred LaForge HR-II 58 hrs now and a dream to fly.
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Weseman
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:50 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: new guy
Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much
traffic here? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south
of Jax FL At haller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can
see my first at www.flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions
Dan Weseman
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Danny <vft(at)aol.com> |
Hi Dan,
Great to see another Florida Rocket.
Danny Melnik
F1 N14ZM
Dreamer
Melbourne, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 18, 2010 5:50 pm
Subject: Rocket-List: new guy
Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traffic he
re? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL At
haller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at
www.flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions
Dan Weseman
========================
===========
-= - The Rocket-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Dan.
I purchased some parts (slider canopy, fairings) from Mark Frederick at
team rocket. Since I'm a customer, I was permitted access to the Team
Rocket Forum on his website. There is some useful information on that
site as well.
Currently, I am reinforcing the RV-4 tail based on several
recommendations on that list. It involves adding stiffeners between the
spars on the HS and adding a front spar doubler on the HS as well. This
is to eliminate the tail shake that some Rockets experience. I urge you
to become a customer of Mark as well at some point. It may be a while,
but don't close up your HS until you get the details. This probably
applies if you are using a -8 HS as well.
Vern Little
HRII
From: Daniel Weseman
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:50 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: new guy
Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traffic
here? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL
At haller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my
first at www.flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions
Dan Weseman
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07:34:00
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Dan,
-
- It's nice to know Arvil's kit is becoming a Rocket, he would have liked
that. John Harmon is still a wealth of information, (he designed it!) and
always willing to chat about anything Rocket related or otherwise.-I enjo
yed stopping by John's cafe a couple of years ago while bringing a Luscombe
to TX for a friend and having dinner with him.
My Rocket just clicked over 1000 hours and compared to my RV4 (which I put
1500 hours on) is still an amazing machine.
-
Good luck, let me know if you need any help:)
-
Smokey
HR2
--- On Thu, 2/18/10, Vern Little <sprocket@vx-aviation.com> wrote:
From: Vern Little <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: new guy
Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 9:03 PM
Hi Dan.
I purchased some parts (slider canopy, fairings) from Mark Frederick at tea
m rocket.- Since I'm a customer, I was permitted access to the Team Rocke
t Forum on his website.- There is some useful information on that site as
well.-
-
Currently, I am reinforcing the RV-4 tail based on several recommendations
on that list.- It involves adding stiffeners between the spars on the HS
and adding a front spar doubler on the HS as well.- This is to eliminate
the tail shake that some Rockets experience.- I urge you to become a cust
omer of Mark as well at some point.- It may be a while, but don't close u
p your HS until you get the details.- This probably applies if you are us
ing a -8 HS as well.
-
Vern Little
HRII
From: Daniel Weseman
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:50 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: new guy
Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traffic her
e? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL At ha
ller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at www
.flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions
-Dan Weseman
-
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Release Date: 02/18/10 07:34:00
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)embarqmail.com> |
Vern,
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- I bought a tail kit off Mark before F1 kit p
roduction was halted. I sold it which was a big mistake. I am flying a RV6-
A and will be building a rocket starting this summer.
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- I also have access to the Team Rocket forum
and agree it's an excellent resource. I plan on building=C2-an F1 but if
=C2-the kit becomes available again or a "Hybrid Rocket" using many F1 pa
rts including the tail kit.
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Mark are you out there.....are tail kits ava
ilable PLEASE.
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Tom in Ohio=C2-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:03:44 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: new guy
Hi Dan.
I purchased some parts (slider canopy, fairings) from Mark Frederick at tea
m rocket.=C2- Since I'm a customer, I was permitted access to the Team Ro
cket Forum on his website.=C2- There is some useful information on that s
ite as well.=C2-
Currently, I am reinforcing the RV-4 tail based on several recommendations
on that list.=C2- It involves adding stiffeners between the spars on the
HS and adding a front spar doubler on the HS as well.=C2- This is to elim
inate the tail shake that some Rockets experience.=C2- I urge you to beco
me a customer of Mark as well at some point.=C2- It may be a while, but d
on't close up your HS until you get the details.=C2- This probably applie
s if you are using a -8 HS as well.
Vern Little
HRII
From: Daniel Weseman
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:50 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: new guy
Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traffic her
e? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL At ha
ller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at www
.flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions
=C2-Dan Weseman
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Release Date: 02/18/10 07:34:00
==
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Guys first thanks for the nice welcome. Ive studied all the info i can f
ind on-Rocket tails. I have a few questions. =0AFirst why are some tails
considered faster? Just due to size ?=0Anext can anyone detail-what makes
the F-1 tails so much stronger? Ive heard of the extra-skin stiffeners b
ut-=0Aare the skins thicker=0Aspars thicker or have doublers etc=0AI have
a nice--4 empenage with .020 control surface skins.-I have another com
plete empenage kit so i could build a new vertical and horizontal if mods a
re available to drastically increase strength? Thanks for any detailed info
about the differences in the structure of the tails used=0A-Dan Weseman
=0Adanweseman(at)yahoo.com=0Awww.flycleanex.com=0Awww.fly5thbearing.com =0A=0A
=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Just for you: http://www.vx-aviation.com/sprocket/empennage.htm
My website is still being developed, but this is the start of the answer
to your questions.
Vern
From: Daniel Weseman
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 5:55 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: Tails?
Hi Guys first thanks for the nice welcome. Ive studied all the info i
can find on Rocket tails. I have a few questions.
First why are some tails considered faster? Just due to size ?
next can anyone detail what makes the F-1 tails so much stronger? Ive
heard of the extra skin stiffeners but
are the skins thicker
spars thicker or have doublers etc
I have a nice -4 empenage with .020 control surface skins. I have
another complete empenage kit so i could build a new vertical and
horizontal if mods are available to drastically increase strength?
Thanks for any detailed info about the differences in the structure of
the tails used
Dan Weseman
danweseman(at)yahoo.com
www.flycleanex.com
www.fly5thbearing.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
19:34:00
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | tompowersrv4(at)sbcglobal.net |
Subject: | Yahoo! Auto Response |
Im in the process of deleting this E-Mail account and transitioning to a new one.
Please make note of new address below and discontinue using the sbcglobal.net
one.
New Address.
tp.rocket(at)gmail.com
Thanks,
Tom Powers
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Hr2pilot(at)aol.com |
The only Rockets That have reported a shake were built using .016
Elevators, the .020 ( recomended )
have not had any problems.
John
John Harmon
D &J Harmon Co., Inc
2201 Coy Avenue
Bakersfield, CA 93307
661-396-3570
661-396-3574 FAX
www.harmonso2generators.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | johntmey(at)aol.com |
Rocketeers,
I have Rocket composite spinner & backplate, no faults, painted metallic
silver.
It ran about 200 hours on Vetterman's HRII and mine. I bought the prop an
d spinner
in 2002 when he switched to MT prop.
Later I popped for the big bucks & bought Hartzell metal spinner via F-1
TeamRocket.
Composite spinner shipped $500.
Pic on request. johntmey(at)aol.com
John Meyers N5800
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks for all the info guys. I found this site-www.docthrock.com- it s
hoes the F-1 evo tail. It has-2 doublers on the front VS spar and a doubl
er on the front of the HS rear spar. it also has some angle doublers on the
front HS spar. Funny it dose not have the extras "rib" skins stiffeners in
it? I think i will use my -4 control surfaces as is. Thanks=0A----
--------=0A- Dan Weseman=0Adanweseman(at)yahoo.com=0Awww.fly
cleanex.com=0Awww.fly5thbearing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________
________=0AFrom: Vern Little <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>=0ATo: rocket-list@m
atronics.com=0ASent: Tue, February 23, 2010 4:09:26 PM=0ASubject: Re: Rocke
t-List: Tails?=0A=0A=0AJust for you: http://www.vx-aviation.com/sprocket/em
pennage.htm=0A-=0AMy website is still being developed, but this is the st
art of the answer to your questions.=0A-=0AVern=0A=0A=0AFrom: Daniel Wese
man =0ASent: Friday, February 19, 2010 5:55 PM=0ATo: rocket-list@matronics.
com =0ASubject: Rocket-List: Tails?=0A=0AHi Guys first thanks for the nice
welcome. Ive studied all the info i can find on-Rocket tails. I have a fe
w questions. =0AFirst why are some tails considered faster? Just due to siz
e ?=0Anext can anyone detail-what makes the F-1 tails so much stronger? I
ve heard of the extra-skin stiffeners but-=0Aare the skins thicker=0Asp
ars thicker or have doublers etc=0AI have a nice--4 empenage with .020 co
ntrol surface skins.-I have another complete empenage kit so i could buil
d a new vertical and horizontal if mods are available to drastically increa
se strength? Thanks for any detailed info about the differences in the stru
cture of the tails used=0A-Dan Weseman=0Adanweseman(at)yahoo.com=0Awww.flycl
eanex.com=0Awww.fly5thbearing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.mat
ronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/
contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c=0A=0A_____________________________
=======0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerry Wymer <jerryw(at)higherspeed.net> |
Subject: | HR II fuselage fixture |
Have a steel HRII fuselage fixture for free. You pick up. Will have
for a few weeks, then I'm cutting it up.
Jerry W.
505-281-0424
Albuquerque, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | 2010 Rocket Fly-in |
Hi Guys,
- Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you knew
the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 wil
l click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in |
From: | hr2pilot(at)aol.com |
The Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june)
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am
Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Hi Guys,
Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you knew
the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 wi
ll click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
========================
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in |
Thanks sir!
--- On Mon, 4/26/10, hr2pilot(at)aol.com wrote:
From: hr2pilot(at)aol.com <hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 12:00 PM
=0AThe Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june)=0A
=0A=0AJohn
=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A
=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----
=0AFrom: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
=0ATo: Rocket List
=0ASent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am
=0ASubject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AHi Guys,
=0A
=0A- Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you k
new the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2
will click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em!
=0A
=0ARob "Smokey" Ray
=0AHR2
=0A
=0A
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in |
Hi Guys-Any chance for a east coast Rocket gathering ...Maybe in Florida?
--I'm finally-slowly getting my project moving .... I love building ,
but a ride in a HrII would probably shift it into high gear... Let see-
FL-to CA in my sonex at 160 mph... and 300 mile range , not this year.
=0A-Dan Weseman=0Adanweseman(at)yahoo.com=0Awww.flycleanex.com=0Awww.fly5thb
earing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "hr2pilo
t(at)aol.com" =0ATo: rocket-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Mon,
April 26, 2010 3:00:20 PM=0ASubject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in=0A
=0AThe Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june)=0AJ
ohn=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Rob Ray <smokyray@rock
etmail.com>=0ATo: Rocket List =0ASent: Mon, Apr
26, 2010 9:55 am=0ASubject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in=0A=0A=0AHi Guys
,=0A=0A- Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of y
ou knew the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty
HR2 will click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em!=0A=0ARob "Smokey"
Ray=0AHR2=0A =0A=0A =================
=================== target=_blank
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List=========
== tp://forums.matronics.com =============
======================= _bla
nk>http://www.matronics.com/contribution===========
============ =0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in |
Maybe I should take the hint and organize one eh? I'll need to find a bigge
r place than my home drome, "The Swamp"- :)
Hmmmmm...
Smokey
--- On Mon, 4/26/10, Daniel Weseman wrote:
From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 6:12 PM
=0AHi Guys-Any chance for a east coast Rocket gathering ...Maybe in Flori
da?--I'm finally-slowly getting my project moving .... I love buildin
g , but a ride in a HrII would probably shift it into high gear... Let see
- FL-to CA in my sonex at 160 mph... and 300 mile range , not this year
.
-Dan Weseman
danweseman(at)yahoo.com
www.flycleanex.com
www.fly5thbearing.com =0A
=0A
=0A=0A=0AFrom: "hr2pilot(at)aol.com" <hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Sent: Mon, April 26, 2010 3:00:20 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
=0AThe Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june)=0AJ
ohn
=0A
=0A-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am
Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AHi Guys,
- Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you knew
the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 wil
l click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
=========== target=_blank>http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Rocket-List=========== tp://forums.m
atronics.com =========== _blank>http://www.matronic
s.com/contribution=========== t utilities such as
List
=
=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Harmon <hr2pilot(at)aol.com> |
Subject: | Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in |
I thank he was looking for a ride, Rob
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 26, 2010, at 8:02 PM, Rob Ray wrote:
> Maybe I should take the hint and organize one eh? I'll need to find
> a bigger place than my home drome, "The Swamp" :)
>
> Hmmmmm...
> Smokey
>
>
> --- On Mon, 4/26/10, Daniel Weseman wrote:
>
> From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
> To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 6:12 PM
>
> Hi Guys Any chance for a east coast Rocket gathering ...Maybe in
> Florida? I'm finally slowly getting my project moving .... I love
> building , but a ride in a HrII would probably shift it into high
> gear... Let see FL to CA in my sonex at 160 mph... and 300 mile
> range , not this year.
>
> Dan Weseman
> danweseman(at)yahoo.com
> www.flycleanex.com
> www.fly5thbearing.com
>
>
> From: "hr2pilot(at)aol.com" <hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
> To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Mon, April 26, 2010 3:00:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
>
> The Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june)
> John
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
> To: Rocket List
> Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am
> Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you
> knew the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my
> trusty HR2 will click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em!
>
> Rob "Smokey" Ray
> HR2
>
> =========== target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List===========
> tp://forums.matronics.com =========== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution==========
> t utilities such as List
>
>
> htt-->
>
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution _-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in |
From: | Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com> |
Just a reminder for those who don't know about it----the "Race to
Ridgeland", our annual fly-in at the Ridgeland Airport (3J1), SC is this
coming Saturday. See: www.racetoridgeland.com for details. 125+ nm cross
country race, spot landing contest, and balloon busting competition among
much more. No admissions charge, food and beverages available---for a one
day event, this is about as much fun as it gets! There will be at least one
Rocket there, for sure!
Otherwise, I'm definitely up for a Rocket get together somewhere...Florida
is fine!
Lee...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in |
Roby has offered-to-take me up .-Roby if you want to Do a east coast
Rocket flyin i have planty of room at 7fl4.-We-a nice 2600 ft strip wit
h 1000 ft over runs on each end (4500 ft-between trees) We have-10 rvs
here already. Its a fun place to live-and- fly?=0A-Dan Weseman=0Adanw
eseman(at)yahoo.com=0Awww.flycleanex.com=0Awww.fly5thbearing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: John Harmon <hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
=0ATo: "rocket-list(at)matronics.com" =0ASent: Mon,
April 26, 2010 11:24:25 PM=0ASubject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
=0A=0A=0AI thank he was looking for a ride, Rob=0A=0ASent from my iPhone=0A
=0AOn Apr 26, 2010, at 8:02 PM, Rob Ray wrote:=0A
=0A=0AMaybe I should take the hint and organize one eh? I'll need to find a
bigger place than my home drome, "The Swamp"- :)=0A>=0A>Hmmmmm...=0A>Smo
key=0A>=0A>=0A>--- On Mon, 4/26/10, Daniel Weseman w
rote:=0A>=0A>=0A>>From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com>=0A>>Subject:
Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in=0A>>To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com=0A>>D
ate: Monday, April 26, 2010, 6:12 PM=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Hi Guys-Any chance for
a east coast Rocket gathering ...Maybe in Florida?--I'm finally-slow
ly getting my project moving .... I love building , but a ride in a HrII wo
uld probably shift it into high gear... Let see- FL-to CA in my sonex a
t 160 mph... and 300 mile range , not this year. =0A>>-Dan Weseman=0A>>da
nweseman(at)yahoo.com=0A>>www.flycleanex.com=0A>>www.fly5thbearing.com =0A>>
=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "hr2pilot@a
ol.com" =0A>>To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com=0A>>Sent: Mon,
April 26, 2010 3:00:20 PM=0A>>Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
=0A>>=0A>>The Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in ju
ne)=0A>>John=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>-----Original Message-----=0A>>From: R
ob Ray =0A>>To: Rocket List =0A>>Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am=0A>>Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Ro
cket Fly-in=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Hi Guys,=0A>>=0A>>- Pretty quiet on the list th
ese days! I was wondering if any of you knew the date for this years Rocket
Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 will click over 1000 hours this mo
nth, gotta like em!=0A>>=0A>>Rob "Smokey" Ray=0A>>HR2=0A>> =0A>>=0A>>
=========== target=_blank>http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Rocket-List=========== tp://forums.matro
nics.com =========== _blank>http://www.matronics.co
m/contribution=========== =0A>>t utilities such as
List=0A>>= =0A>>=0A>>htt--> =0A>=0A> href="http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution ==========
=====================0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
Subject: | Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in |
Hi Dan,
If you want a ride in my Rocket come to Louisville and I'll make it
happen for you or let me know what airport you fly out of and I will try
to stop in sometime in the near future. Good luck with the project, you
will certainly enjoy it when she is done and flying.
Jim Stone
N918JK
On Apr 26, 2010, at 9:12 PM, Daniel Weseman wrote:
Hi Guys Any chance for a east coast Rocket gathering ...Maybe in
Florida? I'm finally slowly getting my project moving .... I love
building , but a ride in a HrII would probably shift it into high
gear... Let see FL to CA in my sonex at 160 mph... and 300 mile range ,
not this year.
Dan Weseman
danweseman(at)yahoo.com
www.flycleanex.com
www.fly5thbearing.com
From: "hr2pilot(at)aol.com" <hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Sent: Mon, April 26, 2010 3:00:20 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
The Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june)
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am
Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Hi Guys,
Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you
knew the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty
HR2 will click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
===========
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List====
======= tp://forums.matronics.com ========
=== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=======
====
t utilities such as List
=
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
Subject: | Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in |
Hey Smokey,
Your nominated, count me in for an east coast Rocket flyin.
Jim Stone
Louisville
On Apr 26, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Rob Ray wrote:
Maybe I should take the hint and organize one eh? I'll need to find a
bigger place than my home drome, "The Swamp" :)
Hmmmmm...
Smokey
--- On Mon, 4/26/10, Daniel Weseman wrote:
From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 6:12 PM
Hi Guys Any chance for a east coast Rocket gathering ...Maybe in
Florida? I'm finally slowly getting my project moving .... I love
building , but a ride in a HrII would probably shift it into high
gear... Let see FL to CA in my sonex at 160 mph... and 300 mile range ,
not this year.
Dan Weseman
danweseman(at)yahoo.com
www.flycleanex.com
www.fly5thbearing.com
From: "hr2pilot(at)aol.com" <hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Sent: Mon, April 26, 2010 3:00:20 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
The Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june)
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am
Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Hi Guys,
Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you
knew the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty
HR2 will click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
===========
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List====
======= tp://forums.matronics.com ========
=== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=======
====
t utilities such as List
=
htt-->
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in |
I am on it!
Smokey
--- On Tue, 4/27/10, Jim Stone wrote:
From: Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Date: Tuesday, April 27, 2010, 5:34 AM
Hey Smokey,Your nominated, count me in for an east coast Rocket flyin.Jim S
toneLouisville
On Apr 26, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Rob Ray wrote:
Maybe I should take the hint and organize one eh? I'll need to find a bigge
r place than my home drome, "The Swamp"- :)
Hmmmmm...
Smokey
--- On Mon, 4/26/10, Daniel Weseman wrote:
From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 6:12 PM
=0AHi Guys-Any chance for a east coast Rocket gathering ...Maybe in Flori
da?--I'm finally-slowly getting my project moving .... I love buildin
g , but a ride in a HrII would probably shift it into high gear... Let see
- FL-to CA in my sonex at 160 mph... and 300 mile range , not this year
.
-Dan Weseman
danweseman(at)yahoo.com
www.flycleanex.com
www.fly5thbearing.com =0A
=0A
=0A=0A=0AFrom: "hr2pilot(at)aol.com" <hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Sent: Mon, April 26, 2010 3:00:20 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
=0AThe Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june)=0AJ
ohn
=0A
=0A-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am
Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AHi Guys,
- Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you knew
the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 wil
l click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
=========== target=_blank>http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Rocket-List=========== tp://forums.m
atronics.com =========== _blank>http://www.matronic
s.com/contribution=========== t utilities such as
List
=
=0A=0A=0Ahtt-->
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronic
s.com/">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/cont
ribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A=0A
===================0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in |
John, looks like he will get a ride and a fly-in too! Hey, if I sent you a
pass on Southwest to come to a FL Rocket fly-in, would you be interested?
Smokey
--- On Mon, 4/26/10, John Harmon wrote:
From: John Harmon <hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 8:24 PM
I thank he was looking for a ride, Rob
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 26, 2010, at 8:02 PM, Rob Ray wrote:
Maybe I should take the hint and organize one eh? I'll need to find a bigge
r place than my home drome, "The Swamp"- :)
Hmmmmm...
Smokey
--- On Mon, 4/26/10, Daniel Weseman wrote:
From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 6:12 PM
=0AHi Guys-Any chance for a east coast Rocket gathering ...Maybe in Flori
da?--I'm finally-slowly getting my project moving .... I love buildin
g , but a ride in a HrII would probably shift it into high gear... Let see
- FL-to CA in my sonex at 160 mph... and 300 mile range , not this year
.
-Dan Weseman
danweseman(at)yahoo.com
www.flycleanex.com
www.fly5thbearing.com =0A
=0A
=0A=0A=0AFrom: "hr2pilot(at)aol.com" <hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Sent: Mon, April 26, 2010 3:00:20 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
=0AThe Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june)=0AJ
ohn
=0A
=0A-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am
Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AHi Guys,
- Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you knew
the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 wil
l click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
=========== target=_blank>http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Rocket-List=========== tp://forums.m
atronics.com =========== _blank>http://www.matronic
s.com/contribution=========== t utilities such as
List
=
=0A=0A=0Ahtt-->
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http:
//www.matronihref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.c
om --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========
=======================0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | careytn(at)comcast.net |
Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 04/26/10 |
Hello Rocketeers, from Manassas VA / KHEF --
Been admiring Rockets for several years now, have had three great back-seat rides
courtesy Jim Stone, Phil Matthews, George Fisher, hope to join your ranks soon!
Jim Winings and Tom Powers now providing priceless background information
to a guy who's never owned a plane, much less an Experimental, much less a Rocket.
As to an East Coast Rocket get-together, hoping to own my own in time to fly into
the annual Become a Pilot Family Day and Aviation Display June 19, at the Smithsonian
Udvar-Hazy Museum, KIAD (google: become a pilot family day udvar-hazy)
. However, realize flying into the DC Special Flight Rules Area / SFRA is
not that much fun for most folks.
So, another Virginia alternative would be the annual Culpeper Airport Air Fest,
Oct 19 (google: C ulpeper Airport Air Fest ). It's a great little airport, with
CAF squadron on the field, and usually features Harrier and multiple other
warbird demos. I know bunch of folks there -- they'd be totally pumped to see
Rockets on the ramp.
Hope to join your illustrious group soon --
Tim Carey
Dulles Aviation, Inc., KHEF
VA Wing Civil Air Patrol, KHEF
USAF, Retired
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rocket-List Digest Server" <rocket-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:47:55 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Rocket-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 04/26/10
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Rocket-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 04/26/10: 6
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:04 AM - 2010 Rocket Fly-in (Rob Ray)
2. 12:02 PM - Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in (hr2pilot(at)aol.com)
3. 12:54 PM - Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in (Rob Ray)
4. 06:13 PM - Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in (Daniel Weseman)
5. 08:04 PM - Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in (Rob Ray)
6. 08:25 PM - Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in (John Harmon)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Hi Guys,
- Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you knew
the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 wil
l click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
From: hr2pilot(at)aol.com
The Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june)
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am
Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Hi Guys,
Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you knew
the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 wi
ll click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em!
Rob "Smokey" Ray
HR2
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________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Thanks sir!
--- On Mon, 4/26/10, hr2pilot(at)aol.com wrote:
From: hr2pilot(at)aol.com <hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
=0AThe Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june)=0A
=0A=0AJohn
=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A
=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----
=0AFrom: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
=0ATo: Rocket List
=0ASent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am
=0ASubject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
June 15, 2009 - April 27, 2010
Rocket-Archive.digest.vol-av