Rocket-Archive.digest.vol-av

June 15, 2009 - April 27, 2010



      us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and
      support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'.
      
      A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these
      things, and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a
      box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security
      he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable.
      
      Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't
      play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead to
      their massive buildup.
      
      See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go
      back to normal.
      
      Steve
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
From: nico <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> css
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: ander-List: Fuming Mad!
Folks, I am fuming mad. The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the countryside. Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you don't point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement. Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is just as guilty. Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect drawn weapons pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with them that day? And don't say that it will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where such prior knowledge was not present; on the contrary, all indications were that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your agency embarked on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you have certainly shown the methods by which you want to accomplish that goal. I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny. Nico _____
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR! So tell me what does this mean for us peons? As seen in AVweb A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said <http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_list.asp> this week. The list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for <http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_tsa_airportlist.pdf> the full list (PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport exit, according to <http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090528tsa.html> AOPA, although some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots. Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full text of the security directive has not been made public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a list <http://www.avweb.com/pdf/general_aviation_affected_airports_2009-01.pdf> of airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft Security Program. CUSTOMS <http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528> AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach operation but she also said she could not discuss the circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP and local police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the Long Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online filing of flight and passenger information for transborder flights, became mandatory on May 18. In an interview <http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/PilotProtestsCustomsCheck_200519-1.htm l> and podcast <http://www.avweb.com/alm?podcast20090608&kw=RelatedStory> with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered, something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had their weapons out," Perry said. More... <http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: What was he thinking...
Date: Jun 15, 2009
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=65426 How would he have landed on that road? Surely hitting that SUV was a life saver from what I can see. It provided him with a sudden stop with lots of people around to pull them from the wreck. Had he hit the rocks on the side trying to land on that narrow road, which appears inevitable, he would have cart-wheeled and who knows what that outcome would have been. There is a deep valley to the left in which he could have descended giving him many more options. Or, he wasn't trying to land at all but buzz the SUV and being too close to the hill he could have encountered sudden turbulence or a downdraft. Since they all survived, we'll know soon enough. Nico ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: FW: If it an't "Boeing" I an't going,,
Date: Jun 17, 2009
Anybody has any experience with this? Makes the term "If It an't Boeing I an't going" have more meaning Subject: Air France Accident: Smoking Gun Found A Brazilian Naval unit reportedly found the complete vertical fin/rudder assembly of the doomed aircraft floating some 30 miles from the main debris field. The search for the flight recorders goes on, but given the failure history of the vertical fins on A300-series aircraft, an analysis of its structure at the point of failure will likely yield the primary cause factor in the breakup of the aircraft, with the flight recorder data (if found) providing only secondary contributing phenomena. The fin-failure-leading-to-breakup sequence is strongly suggested in the attached (below) narrative report by George Larson, Editor emeritus of Smithsonian Air & Space Magazine. It's regrettable that these aircraft are permitted to continue in routine flight operations with this known structural defect It appears that safety finishes last within Airbus Industries, behind national pride and economics. Hopefully, this accident will force the issue to be addressed, requiring at a minimum restricted operations of selected platforms, and grounding of some high-time aircraft until a re-engineered (strengthened) vertical fin/rudder attachment structure can be incorporated. This is an account of a discussion I had recently with a maintenance professional who salvages airliner airframes for a living. He has been at it for a while, dba BMI Salvage at Opa Locka Airport in Florida. In the process of stripping parts, he sees things few others are able to see. His observations confirm prior assessments of Airbus structural deficiencies within our flight test and aero structures communities by those who have seen the closely held reports of A3XX-series vertical fin failures. His observations: "I have scrapped just about every type of transport aircraft from A-310, A-320, B-747, 727, 737, 707, DC-3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, MD-80, L-188, L1011 and various Martin, Convair and KC-97 aircraft. Over a hundred of them. Airbus products are the flimsiest and most poorly designed as far as airframe structure is concerned by an almost obsession to utilize composite materials. I have one A310 vertical fin on the premises from a demonstration I just performed. It was pathetic to see the composite structure shatter as it did, something a Boeing product will not do. The vertical fin along with the composite hinges on rudder and elevators is the worst example of structural use of composites I have ever seen and I am not surprised by the current pictures of rescue crews recovering the complete Vertical fin and rudder assembly at some distance from the crash site. The Airbus line has a history of both multiple rudder losses and a vertical fin and rudder separation from the airframe as was the case in NY with AA. As an old non-radar equipped DC4 pilot who flew through many a thunderstorm in Africa along the equator, I am quite familiar with their ferocity. It is not difficult to understand how such a storm might have stressed an aircraft structure to failure at its weakest point, and especially so in the presence of instrumentation problems. I replied with this: "I'm watching very carefully the orchestration of the inquiry by French officials and Airbus. I think I can smell a concerted effort to steer discussion away from structural issues and onto sensors, etc. Now Air France, at the behest of their pilots' union, is replacing all the air data sensors on the Airbus fleet, which creates a distraction and shifts the media's focus away from the real problem. It's difficult to delve into the structural issue without wading into the Boeing vs. Airbus swamp, where any observation is instantly tainted by its origin. Americans noting any Airbus structural issues (A380 early failure of wing in static test; loss of vertical surfaces in Canadian fleet prior to AA A300, e.g.) will be attacked by the other side as partisan, biased, etc. " His follow-up: One gets a really unique insight into structural issues when one has first-hand experience in the dismantling process. I am an A&P, FEJ and an ATP with 7000 flight hours and I was absolutely stunned, flabbergasted when I realized that the majority of internal airframe structural supports on the A 310 which appear to be aluminum are actually rolled composite material with aluminum rod ends. They shattered. Three years ago we had a storm come through, with gusts up to 60-70 kts., catching several A320s tied down on the line, out in the open. The A320 elevators and rudder hinges whose actuators had been removed shattered and the rudder and elevators came off. Upon closer inspection I realized that not only were the rear spars composite but so were the hinges. While Boeing also uses composite material in its airfoil structures, the actual attach fittings for the elevators, rudder, vertical and horizontal stabilizers are all of machined aluminum." -----------------(end of narrative)--------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Runway incursion
Date: Jun 19, 2009
http://flash.aopa.org/asf/faarunwaysafety/BOS021508V3AOPA.swf Click Play... (Courtesy of eAOPA) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Right of the People
Date: Jul 12, 2009
I found this article by Paul Berge in Pacific Flyer (www.pacificflyer.com) in the July 2009 edition. Paul has been my favorite aviation author for a long time. ------------------------------- They gathered in a circle beneath the hangar's dusty shop lamp. Shadows forced Curtis to shift to keep the newspaper in the light. "Read it again," someone asked in a soft voice. Curtis cleared his throat before reading the newly ratified amendment to the Constitution: "A well regulated Sky, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and fly Aircraft, shall not be infringed." "Man, that's good," Jean muttered. "And all in one sentence. Did you notice? That's good writing. How many words in it?" Curtiss counted and answered, "Twenty-seven." And they all stood quietly considering the impact of those few words that seemed to guarantee their right - not merely a privilege - to fly. "Shall not be infringed, " Doug repeated. His voice rolled up from some deep recess, gaining power as it left his mouth,. "That means we - the people - got the right to fly, and no one, not even TSA, can take it away; 'bout damn time, too." And most of the crowd mumbled agreement, except Thomas who frowned and asked to see the paper. He read it slowly to himself before saying, "This first part concerns me." He tapped the paper with a finger. "The way it starts, 'A well regulated Sky, being necessary to the security of a free State...'" "So what?" Doug interrupted. "Makes sense to have some rules, like we already got for IFR, VFR, right-of-way and such..." "Just concerns me," Thomas hesitated. "Like, maybe, the government might point to the 'well-regulated' part whenever it wants to clamp down .." "Shall not be infringed," Doug struck back. "That means we fly what we own, and they got nothin' to say about it!" The vehemence with which he defended the phrase masked an unspoken fear. Thomas shook his head. "Remember when TSA made us all get these silly badges just to get to our own hangars?" He flicked the tag clipped to his overalls. "They decide what's well regulated." Doug slowly unclipped his security badge, smiled and tossed it to the floor. The other stood in awe witnessing what they knew as an FAR violation. Doug drew up his full six-foot-two-inch height and ground the offending badge beneath his boot heel. Jean was next, and after she flung her security badge to the oily pavement the other pilots threw theirs into a loose pile. Only Thomas remained still wearing his badge. The clack on an air compressor kicking on covered an uncomfortable silence. But by the time it quit Thomas had gathered the badges and, adding his own, dropped them into a trashcan. Once outside the hangar with the aerodrome beacon flashing overhead, he drizzled avgas over them. And then, before dropping a lit match, he intoned, "Shall not be infringed!" It'd be left to future generations of pilots to decide if it was the Constitutional amendment or the People's interpretation that saved aviation. But on that July 4th evening a handful of rebel pilots declared independence from tyranny. ----------------------------- That about says it, Paul. Thanks Nico ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Mid-Air collusion Today
Date: Aug 08, 2009
I comment on my blog on this today. <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/08/mid-air-collusion.html> TruthByRushDelivery ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: [TruthByRushDelivery] Space Video
Date: Aug 08, 2009
I watched a lot of NASA's video feed from Space Shuttle Endeavour and the International Space Station last week and edited some of the feed into a short video. I am a fool for speed, power, energy, altitude, and a vista of creation. TruthByRushDelivery <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/08/space-video_08.html> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Space Video
Date: Aug 09, 2009
Thanks Nico for the putting the video together. Really festinating to watch..!! Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB 680F / N6253X Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 11:23 PM Subject: Commander-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Space Video I watched a lot of NASA's video feed from Space Shuttle Endeavour and the International Space Station last week and edited some of the feed into a short video. I am a fool for speed, power, energy, altitude, and a vista of creation. TruthByRushDelivery <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/08/space-video_08.html> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2009
From: rgraham(at)ozemail.com.au
Subject: NASA video
Howdy Alistair, It sounds like you're a real "bushy" now, I'm glad you've settled so well. The Rocket hasn't flown for three weeks, due work-load, but mainly weather - it's been very windy, and I'm expanding my x-wind confidence slowly! The link is from NASA's video feed from the Shuttle and Space Station. Cheers, Ron ><http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/08/space-video_08.html> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Shuttling the Shuttle
Date: Aug 10, 2009
Today's post on my blog. TruthByRushDelivery <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/08/shuttling-shuttle.html> Shuttling the Shuttle. From a NASA 747 pilot. Forwarded by Tyler Hall. Thanks, Tyler. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fred LaForge" <fred.laforge(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Oshkosh
Date: Aug 12, 2009
For all who couldnt attend Oshkosh. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKU0uQki5Dc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: What a powerful speech.
Date: Sep 15, 2009
What a powerful speech. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh9sTgFPQfg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Absolutely spectacular
Date: Sep 17, 2009
What an observation post... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PmYItnlY5M ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2009
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Trip Report FL-CO and back!
Gentlemen, -The list has been pretty quiet so here is a trip report. We just flew ou r HR2 out to CO from our FL swamp strip home for our first vacation in a lo ng time. The plan was to camp on a grass strip in the Rockies at 8250' MSL for a week of fall colors, camping and hiking and return home, round trip a lmost 3500 NM. We also planned to land on as many grass strips en route as we could.-- Mission accomplished, well except for a a couple of paved e xcursions. I marveled at the amazing numbers my 15 year-old girl posted. De spite her almost 1000 hour airframe, the efficiency was evident. I have GAM I injectors and an otherwise stock airframe with big tires and wheel-pants for my off pavement operations. Flying economy cruise the entire trip I sti ll managed an average of 10.7 GPH at 179.7 knots GS. With 10 gallon tip tan ks (54 total) we did a leg from Dallas to central CO and still landed with 16 gallons! When we left two fellow campers with highly modified C-185 and C-206's watched us leave. We rolled about 600 feet and jumped off for a, well, Rocket launch! Several times on the home leg I saw 200+ Knots GS a t under 10GPH!- I miss the F-16, but this is the next best thing! SmokeyHR2http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoJEX3hdXqw=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Trip Report FL-CO and back!
Date: Sep 22, 2009
From: im7shannon(at)aol.com
Great to hear others are getting in some quality Rocket time! I have been using mine to commute home on weekends from Montana to Washington State Olympic Penninsula, about an 800 mile round trip and have been seeing similar numbers. I have Gamis and EI also and usually run LOP unless there is much of a headwind to deal with. Its great to leave Montana at 5 local time and get home at 6 local time, and use only 20 gallons of fuel. I have 160 hours on it now since my first flight last summer, the more I fly it the more I love it! Kevin Shannon N450KS HR!! -----Original Message----- From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> Sent: Mon, Sep 21, 2009 9:27 pm Subject: Rocket-List: Trip Report FL-CO and back! Gentlemen, ?The list has been pretty quiet so here is a trip report. We just flew our HR2 out to CO from our FL swamp strip home for our first vacation in a long time. The plan was to camp on a grass strip in the Rockies at 8250' MSL for a week of fall colors, camping and hiking and return home, round trip almost 3500 NM. We also planned to land on as many grass strips en route as we could. ?? Mission accomplished, well except for a a couple of paved excursions. I marveled at the amazing numbers my 15 year-old girl posted. Despite her almost 1000 hour airframe, the efficiency was evident. I have GAMI injectors and an otherwise stock airframe with big tires and wheel-pants for my off pavement operations. Flying economy cruise the entire trip I still managed an average of 10.7 GPH at 179.7 knots GS. With 10 gallon tip tanks (54 total) we did a leg from Dallas to central CO and still landed with 16 gallons! When we left two fellow campers with highly modified C-185 and C-206's watched us leave. We rolled about 600 feet and jumped off for a, well, Rocket launch! Several times on the home leg I saw 200+ Knots GS at under 10GPH!? I miss the F-16, but this is the next best thing! Smokey HR2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoJEX3hdXqw ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2009
From: rocketman <bluebird270(at)dslextreme.com>
Subject: WTB prop Hartzell M2YR
Need Hartzell M2YR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 18, 2009
From: Jerry Wymer <jerryw(at)higherspeed.net>
Subject: Fuselage fixture
HR II steel fuselage fixture w/leg levelers - free - you pick up in Albuquerque. Jerry Wymer jerryw(at)higherspeed.net 505-281-0424 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November!
Dear Listers, Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's solely through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. There is NO advertising to support the Lists. You might have noticed the conspicuous lack of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics Email List email messages and web site pages such as the Matronics List Forums ( http://forums.matronics.com ), the List Wiki ( http://wiki.matronics.com), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matronics.com/search ), the List Browser ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements. During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution counts! Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates. This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/). These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support of the Lists again this year!! You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount!! To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral support over the years! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Road Landing [from AVweb] (I guess they aren't going to publish
this after all)
Date: Nov 02, 2009
From: Aviation Safety [mailto:aviation_safety(at)hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 12:27 PM Subject: RE: Road Landing [from AVweb] Thank you for your note about your experience in landing an airplane on a road. On behalf of Aviation Safety magazine and AVweb, we sincerely appreciate your taking the time to share your experience with us. As you may recall, we asked for your response as part of a project to do a podcast with two pilots who have landed on roads. Although it took way too long, we're putting the finishing touches on that project. Thanks for your response, and best wishes to you in your flying. Jeb Joseph E. (Jeb) Burnside Editor-in-Chief Aviation Safety magazine www.aviationsafetymagazine.com jeb.burnside(at)belvoirpubs.com 941.306.2245 _____ From: nico(at)nicsysco.com Subject: Road Landing [from AVweb] Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:43:17 -0700 ROAD LANDING This might not fit your exact story-profile, but in the 1970's and early '80s, I used to land on roads in Southern Africa on a regular basis. During those years, there were seldom anybody else in the sky when one ventures away from the cities, especially north west towards Botswana and Namibia. I was part of a construction company back then and we landed a contract to build a flood control/irrigation dam near the Botswana border. Driving out to survey the site before sending establishment crews to set up camp and build an airfield, was an arduous affair with hardly any roads, no signs, and not many people speaking English. Flying there and pick a road or open area to land was par for the course in those days. Not that I needed a reason to fly, I should add. On this particular trip I flew a Cherokee 300, was alone and I made sure that I didn't have too much fuel on board, preparing for very short landings and take-offs. The Cherokee is not the plane of choice for road and bush landings, because of the low wing. A high wing, fowler flap equipped plane, especially with a STOL conversion, like a Cessna 206 or 207 is the ideal tri-cycle plane for such work. The Cherokee had to do for this trip and the only influence the low wing had on the trip was road selection: no culverts, bridges, shrubs close to the road, and so on. When I left, my guys wanted to know how I will prove that I actually landed at the site. I said I'll bring back a rock with fresh soil on it. And off I went armed with the topographical map of the dam-site. Since navigational aids fade quickly in that direction, dead reckoning navigation is best not forgotten and I ended up more or less in the vicinity after about an hour's flight, but I could not pin-point the exact location to scout for a camp-site and airfield. I saw, however, a nice gravel road running north-south that should be close by the construction site. The most important part of landing on a road is the preparation: make sure that a safe landing can be executed and that a take-off would be easy. I found that three inspection passes cover surface and obstacles, approach, length, and overrun for both the landing and the take-off. After landing, the unexpected happened. I couldn't help to think that I was swarmed by hordes of ants, but they were black kids, nicely dressed in school uniforms, that rushed out of school to witness this never-before-seen phenomenon. I must have stirred up the excitement with my precautionary passes and when I actually touched down smack in the middle of their school complex, school was out. From the air, there was no indication that there was a school there because their school consisted of mud huts and shelters built of tree branches. Didn't look like anything in particular at all from the air. Pushing through roughly two-thousand kids now pushing up against the plane, I could see an adult making his way towards me with a smile as large as the Grand Canyon. I couldn't help but notice that he was smartly dressed with shirt and tie, quite an unexpected site out in the bush. He shook my hand vigorously and welcomed me at their school commenting on the excitement I caused at his school and making for many essays to be written in the future about the day a plane landed in the school yard. After exchanging some niceties, I pulled my topographic map out from the plane and explained to him what I was looking for and if he could point the location on my map. He immediately recognized the local names on the map and pointed to a small range of hills to the north and said the spot is just over those hills and added some landmarks I should look out for. It turned out he was the school's principal and geography teacher. That was truly unexpected. Take-off time. I walked to the side of the road and picked up a brick-sized rock with fresh red-soil on it and tucked it safely into the plane. The kids were singing and chanting with delight at the site before them and I had no chance getting them to move away from the Cherokee. So, I asked the principal if he could get the kids to move off the road as I will be accelerating and they might not get out of the way in time. He waved and yelled something in Tswana causing them to scatter along the road in the direction of my take-off. As they lined the road, the one behind the one in front leaning a bit into the road to see the plane, creating a funnel of kids right into the middle of the road not more than 300 feet ahead. Several times I had to get out onto the wing, waving them off the road. When I started the engine, the road closed again with exciting kids wanting to see and hear the roar of the 300 hp Lycoming, which must have sounded like something from outer space to them. So I continued my dance out onto the wing and back again a couple of times, until I had about 500 feet of clear road ahead of me, cautious of a possible hard stop if they would not move off the road in time as I approach on my takeoff roll. So I let all 300 horses go with the awesome roar that the Lycoming can produce and the resultant dust storm behind it. Fortunately, the kids saw what was coming and they smartly moved out of the way in a wave. I had more than enough space to take off without endangering anyone, except perhaps the additional homework that I brought onto them. I proceeded to the construction site and successfully identified where we would build the camp-site and airfield. When I landed at Lanseria, west of Johannesburg, my guys were waiting for me having heard me calling in on the comm and I promptly delivered the rock with fresh red-soil. I guess the teachable moment is to expect anything and always be on guard. Nico van Niekerk, Thousand Oaks, CA 91359 nico(at)acu.org (818) 574-7146 _____ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: November List Fund Raiser
A couple of years ago I implemented an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, he or she will instantly cease to receive these Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple. Don't you wish PBS worked that way! :-) I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site such as this one. It also goes to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List sites. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages, when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum. The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Speedy11(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 04, 2009
Subject: Re: Road Landing
Smokey, I agree 100%. In fact I have a briefing I give on emergency landings and I always recommend a road - for many reasons, one of which you mentioned. There are very safe ways to accomplish a road landing. Stan Sutterfield My first choice for forced landings is a paved road rather than a fie ld. Reason? Every RV forced landing I have helped clean up was on it's back , trapping the pilot. Growing up around an AG strip, roads were always high on our list as "alternate airfields" and used often. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2009
Subject: Re: Road Landing
From: Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com>
When landing on roads, what's the trick to avoiding lines (drop lines, power lines, telephone lines)? They are difficult to see, especially in the shadows of the trees (a commonplace issue here in the Southeast). Coming in at a low angle (3-4 degrees would be typical, I would think), lines would have to be pretty far apart for you not to have to run fairly serious "gauntlet"of them of one sort or another. Not arguing, just wondering what the "trick" is... Lee... On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM, wrote: > Smokey, > I agree 100%. In fact I have a briefing I give on emergency landings and I > always recommend a road - for many reasons, one of which you mentioned. > There are very safe ways to accomplish a road landing. > Stan Sutterfield > > > My first choice for forced landings is a paved road rather than a fie > ld. Reason? Every RV forced landing I have helped clean up was on it's back > , trapping the pilot. Growing up around an AG strip, roads were always high > on our list as "alternate airfields" and used often. > > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2009
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Road Landing
Lee, Growing up around an AG strip the spray pilots always looked for wires, eve rywhere. The trick on roads is to look for the power poles alongside, there you will find the where the wires cross. On larger roads and interstates, only large high tension lines cross as they are required 50 feet vertical f or large vehicle clearance and are marked. Interstates are actually designa ted as emergency runways and stressed for load bearing in national crisis s cenarios, the minimum distance between overpasses is 1 mile, for a reason. - BTW, how's your new Rocket running? - Smokey HR2 - --- On Wed, 11/4/09, Lee Logan wrote: From: Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 1:08 PM When landing on roads, what's the trick to avoiding lines (drop lines, powe r lines, telephone lines)?- They are difficult to see, especially in the shadows of the trees (a commonplace issue here in the Southeast).- Coming in at a low angle (3-4 degrees would be typical, I would think), lines wou ld have to be pretty far apart for you not to have to run fairly serious "g auntlet"of them of one sort or another. Not arguing, just wondering what the "trick" is... Lee... On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM, wrote: Smokey, I agree 100%.- In fact I have a briefing I give on emergency landings and I always recommend a road - for many reasons, one of which you mentioned. - There are very safe ways to accomplish a road landing. Stan Sutterfield - My first choice for forced landings is a paved road rather than a fie ld. Reason? Every RV forced landing I have helped clean up was on it's back , trapping the pilot. Growing up around an AG strip, roads were always high on our list as "alternate airfields" and used often. - _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List tp://forums.matronics.com =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Rocket Insurance
Date: Nov 04, 2009
Just a heads up. I just got my insurance from Falcon for my Harmon Rocket II for next year. It is underwritten by Global-AAU: the EAA program underwriter. It states that Global will not underwrite new F-1 or Harmon Rockets as new business. For Liability ONLY, it increased $125 from last year. Tom "GummiBear" Gummo N-561FS 360 great hours. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Reminder
Dear Listers, Just a quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided for my your Contributions during this time of the year. Your personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free. Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
Date: Nov 05, 2009
Subject: Rocket insurance
SNIP I just got my insurance from Falcon for my Harmon Rocket II for next year. It is underwritten by Global-AAU: the EAA program underwriter. It states that Global will not underwrite new F-1 or Harmon Rockets as new business. For Liability ONLY, it increased $125 from last year. SNIP I just renewed my coverage through AUA and the liability only rate was $50 cheaper. $560 for the year. Contact http://www.auaonline.com/ and tell them that they owe me a t-shirt for plugging them online. LOL Vince Frazier Flyboy Accessories 3963 Caborn Road Mount Vernon, IN 47620 812-464-1839 1-888-8FLYBOY 1-888-835-9269 www.flyboyaccessories.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2009
Subject: Re: Road Landing
From: Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com>
Smokey: That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive around this area, I see power lines everywhere. Our major north-south highway is I-95 (or Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is very busy. Your chances of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, but your chances of clearing 95 unscathed are much less. The frontage road is better in that respect and has few powerlines itself. I just don't figure I'll be so lucky as to have an Interstate or frontage road handy when I need one! My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and to land beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible. That way, I figure I've got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear landing. I'll have to make a couple of practice passes next time I'm up to see how easy the power lines themselves are to spot from cruising altitude (not hard from 1,000' as I recall but normally you'd be pretty committed by then, I would think). I would really like to be able to pick my spot early in an engine out situation, but I don't know how absolutely practical that is. My Rocket is running much better. My last flight before I took it down for 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the 320-350 range and the oil temp at 190-195. I'm very pleased with that and assuming it will be the same once I get it back in the air, I will quickly finish the rest of my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime time. I've made arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so all is well! Have a great weekend! Lee... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CalBru(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 05, 2009
Subject: Re: Rocket insurance
Where do we find AUA? Cal In a message dated 11/5/2009 7:29:04 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, VFrazier(at)usi.edu writes: --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" SNIP I just got my insurance from Falcon for my Harmon Rocket II for next year. It is underwritten by Global-AAU: the EAA program underwriter. It states that Global will not underwrite new F-1 or Harmon Rockets as new business. For Liability ONLY, it increased $125 from last year. SNIP I just renewed my coverage through AUA and the liability only rate was $50 cheaper. $560 for the year. Contact http://www.auaonline.com/ and tell them that they owe me a t-shirt for plugging them online. LOL Vince Frazier Flyboy Accessories 3963 Caborn Road Mount Vernon, IN 47620 812-464-1839 1-888-8FLYBOY 1-888-835-9269 www.flyboyaccessories.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2009
Subject: Re: Road Landing
From: Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com>
I have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your method o f success in getting yours in range? Ernest N540HB On 11/5/09 8:22 AM, "Lee Logan" wrote: > Smokey:- That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive around th is > area, I see power lines everywhere.- Our major north-south highway is I-9 5 (or > Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is very busy.- Your ch ances > of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, but your chances of cleari ng 95 > unscathed are much less.-- The frontage road is better in that respect an d has > few powerlines itself.- I just don't figure I'll be so lucky as to have a n > Interstate or frontage road handy when I need one! > > My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and to land > beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible.- That way, I figure I've > got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear landing.- I'll h ave > to make a couple of practice passes next time I'm up to see how easy the power > lines themselves are to spot from cruising altitude (not hard from 1,000' as I > recall but normally you'd be pretty committed by then, I would think).- I > would really like to be able to pick my spot early in an engine out situa tion, > but I don't know how absolutely practical that is. > > My Rocket is running much better.- My last flight before I took it down f or > 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the 320-350 ran ge > and the oil temp at 190-195.- I'm very pleased with that and assuming it will > be the same once I get it back in the air, I will quickly finish the rest of > my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime time.- I've made > arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so all is well! > > Have a great weekend! > > Lee... > > > <http://www.buildersbooks.com> om> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 11/04/09
From: larry(at)ncproto.com
Date: Nov 05, 2009
I have many off-airport landings albeit under different circumstances - in flying sailplanes cross-country. I have always landed in fields with no mishap; although I agree with Smokey's assessment that most RV's tend to end up upside down. For me the difference lies in the wingspan. Our sailplanes are 49 feet and as such anything on the side of the road is cause for a groundloop. A good friend broke his sailplane twice in this scenario. That said I now consider roads as options while flying my Decathlon and will do so when my Rocket is in the air. Just more info. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Rocket-List Digest Server <rocket-list(at)matronics.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 23:58:54 Subject: Rocket-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 11/04/09 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Rocket-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Rocket-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 09-11-04&Archive=Rocket Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 09-11-04&Archive=Rocket =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Rocket-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/04/09: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:52 PM - Re: Road Landing (Speedy11(at)aol.com) 2. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: Road Landing (Lee Logan) 3. 08:56 PM - Re: Re: Road Landing (Rob Ray) 4. 10:08 PM - Rocket Insurance (Tom Gummo) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ From: Speedy11(at)aol.com Subject: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing Smokey, I agree 100%. In fact I have a briefing I give on emergency landings and I always recommend a road - for many reasons, one of which you mentioned. There are very safe ways to accomplish a road landing. Stan Sutterfield My first choice for forced landings is a paved road rather than a fie ld. Reason? Every RV forced landing I have helped clean up was on it's back , trapping the pilot. Growing up around an AG strip, roads were always high on our list as "alternate airfields" and used often. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing From: Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com> When landing on roads, what's the trick to avoiding lines (drop lines, power lines, telephone lines)? They are difficult to see, especially in the shadows of the trees (a commonplace issue here in the Southeast). Coming in at a low angle (3-4 degrees would be typical, I would think), lines would have to be pretty far apart for you not to have to run fairly serious "gauntlet"of them of one sort or another. Not arguing, just wondering what the "trick" is... Lee... On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM, wrote: > Smokey, > I agree 100%. In fact I have a briefing I give on emergency landings and I > always recommend a road - for many reasons, one of which you mentioned. > There are very safe ways to accomplish a road landing. > Stan Sutterfield > > > My first choice for forced landings is a paved road rather than a fie > ld. Reason? Every RV forced landing I have helped clean up was on it's back > , trapping the pilot. Growing up around an AG strip, roads were always high > on our list as "alternate airfields" and used often. > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing Lee, Growing up around an AG strip the spray pilots always looked for wires, eve rywhere. The trick on roads is to look for the power poles alongside, there you will find the where the wires cross. On larger roads and interstates, only large high tension lines cross as they are required 50 feet vertical f or large vehicle clearance and are marked. Interstates are actually designa ted as emergency runways and stressed for load bearing in national crisis s cenarios, the minimum distance between overpasses is 1 mile, for a reason. - BTW, how's your new Rocket running? - Smokey HR2 - --- On Wed, 11/4/09, Lee Logan wrote: From: Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing When landing on roads, what's the trick to avoiding lines (drop lines, powe r lines, telephone lines)?- They are difficult to see, especially in the shadows of the trees (a commonplace issue here in the Southeast).- Coming in at a low angle (3-4 degrees would be typical, I would think), lines wou ld have to be pretty far apart for you not to have to run fairly serious "g auntlet"of them of one sort or another. Not arguing, just wondering what the "trick" is... Lee... On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM, wrote: Smokey, I agree 100%.- In fact I have a briefing I give on emergency landings and I always recommend a road - for many reasons, one of which you mentioned. - There are very safe ways to accomplish a road landing. Stan Sutterfield - My first choice for forced landings is a paved road rather than a fie ld. Reason? Every RV forced landing I have helped clean up was on it's back , trapping the pilot. Growing up around an AG strip, roads were always high on our list as "alternate airfields" and used often. - _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List tp://forums.matronics.com =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ From: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Insurance Just a heads up. I just got my insurance from Falcon for my Harmon Rocket II for next year. It is underwritten by Global-AAU: the EAA program underwriter. It states that Global will not underwrite new F-1 or Harmon Rockets as new business. For Liability ONLY, it increased $125 from last year. Tom "GummiBear" Gummo N-561FS 360 great hours. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2009
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket insurance
I too use AUA, in my 20th year. absolute best in the business. Call Rob Kam sch at 800-727-3823. Smokey HR2 http://www.auaonline.com/ --- On Thu, 11/5/09, CalBru(at)aol.com wrote: From: CalBru(at)aol.com <CalBru(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket insurance Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 6:38 AM =0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0AWhere do we find AUA?=0A-=0ACal=0A-=0A=0AIn a messa ge dated 11/5/2009 7:29:04 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, =0AVFrazier(at)usi.edu writes:=0A--> =0A Rocket-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" =0A SNIP I just got my insurance from Falcon for =0A my Harmon Rocket II for n ext year.- It is underwritten by Global-AAU: =0A the EAA program underwriter .- It states that Global will not =0A underwrite new F-1 or Harmon Rockets as new business. For =0A Liability ONLY, it increased $125 from last year. SNIP I just renewed =0A my coverage through AUA and the liability only rate was $50 cheaper.- =0A $560 for the year. Contact http://www.auaonline.com/- and tell =0A them that they owe me a t-shirt for plugging them online.- =0A LOL Vince Frazier Flyboy Accessories 3963 Caborn =0A Road Mount Vernon, IN =0A 47620 812-464-1839 1-888-8FLYBOY 1-888-835-9269 www.flyboyac===================== ==nbsp; =0A - - - -- (And Get Some AWESOME FREE =0A =0A to f ind =0A Gifts =0Atric =0Are =0Ab =0Ak you for =0Ap; - =0A - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, =0A List =0A======== ================ =0A the =0Aties =0ADay =0A ======================= - - - - - -- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =0A======== ================ ===============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2009
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Road Landing
Awesome! Come see me here at the Swamp sometime! SmokeyHR2@FD33 --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Lee Logan wrote: From: Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 5:22 AM Smokey:- That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive around th is area, I see power lines everywhere.- Our major north-south highway is I-95 (or Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is very busy. - Your chances of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, but your ch ances of clearing 95 unscathed are much less.-- The frontage road is be tter in that respect and has few powerlines itself.- I just don't figure I'll be so lucky as to have an Interstate or frontage road handy when I nee d one! =0A My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and to la nd beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible.- That way, I fig ure I've got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear landing. - I'll have to make a couple of practice passes next time I'm up to see h ow easy the power lines themselves are to spot from cruising altitude (not hard from 1,000' as I recall but normally you'd be pretty committed by then , I would think).- I would really like to be able to pick my spot early i n an engine out situation, but I don't know how absolutely practical that i s. =0A My Rocket is running much better.- My last flight before I took it down f or 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the 320-350 ra nge and the oil temp at 190-195.- I'm very pleased with that and assuming it will be the same once I get it back in the air, I will quickly finish t he rest of my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime time.- I've made arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so all is we ll! =0A Have a great weekend! Lee... ===============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sprayers(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 05, 2009
Subject: Re: High Temps!
This high temp. ---have you checked your timing (mags)...i see you have10-1 pistons. barrett in tulsa times his engines with these pistons at 23deg. (your c4b5) plate on eng says 25 deg. look at the 8.7 to 1 pistons in lyc . 290 hp engines (most are 20deg).good luck _sprayers(at)aol.com_ (mailto:sprayers(at)aol.com) In a message dated 11/5/2009 7:25:18 P.M. Central Standard Time, smokyray(at)rocketmail.com writes: Ernest, Let me know how it works out, I will take a photo of my lower cowl in cas e you want to compare...:) Smokey --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Ernest Hale wrote: From: Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: High Temps! Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 2:25 PM Thanks Smokey, I will look at that, I also have the stock Harmon Cowl. My compression is the same as yours as well, hopefully I can get it running like yours. Ernest On 11/5/09 4:34 PM, "Rob Ray" wrote: Ernest, An aeronautical engineer once told me that exit area should exceed inlet area by 1.5%. I carefully measured my inlets and my exit area and ended up finding my exhaust pipes ate up alot of my exit area. I started by cuttin g quite a bit off my lower cowl in the shape of a U with the bottom of the U even with the lower engine mount tube.I also moved my oil cooler to a 30 degree angle and went to #8 lines. BTW, I have a stock Harmon cowl with a C4B5 injected with 10.0 Compression, Ly-Con cyllinders. After the modifications I cruise now at 9500' at 20"/2350 RPM with 180 oil, 310 average on all 6, 10.5 GPH, 188 Knots TAS. If I run 21 Squared down low my cyllinders run at 285, oil at 160 and fuel flow at 6.9 GPH. Hope that helps. Smokey HR2 --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Ernest Hale wrote: From: Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 8:06 AM Huge is I am putting 18 gph through my engine at 6,000=99 to mainta in a CHT of 415 or so. On climb out I can hit 440 in minutes. I have replaced th e baffling, reconstructed the bottom of the top cowling to get better flow, placed a lip on the bottom of the engine outlet to promote a suction to help pull air through the engine. We are about to build extensions onto the air inlets in the front of the cowling to hopefully force more air throug h. I was having a bad time with oil temps earlier and fixed that by adding another oil cooler so now I have 2 of those. Any help would be appreciated. Ernest On 11/5/09 10:41 AM, "Michael W Stewart" wrote : Ernest. What is Huge? What is High? What have you done to this point to solve the problem? With this information we can begin to help you. There are a hundred things to list to do, We should start with where you are and what you have done. Mike do not archive Ernest Hale ---11/05/2009 09:59:18 AM---I have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your method of success in getting your From: Ernest Hale To: Date: 11/05/2009 09:59 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing Sent by: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com ____________________________________ I have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your method of success in getting yours in range? Ernest N540HB On 11/5/09 8:22 AM, "Lee Logan" > wrote: Smokey: That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive around this area, I see power lines everywhere. Our major north-south highway is I-95 (or Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is very busy. Your chances of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, but your chan ces of clearing 95 unscathed are much less. The frontage road is better in that respect and has few powerlines itself. I just don't figure I'll be so lucky as to have an Interstate or frontage road handy when I need one! My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and to land beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible. That way, I figure I've got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear land ing. I'll have to make a couple of practice passes next time I'm up to see how easy the power lines themselves are to spot from cruising altitude (not hard from 1,000' as I recall but normally you'd be pretty committed by th en, I would think). I would really like to be able to pick my spot early in an engine out situation, but I don't know how absolutely practical that is. My Rocket is running much better. My last flight before I took it down for 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the 320-350 range and the oil temp at 190-195. I'm very pleased with that and assumin g it will be the same once I get it back in the air, I will quickly finish th e rest of my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime time. I've made arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so all is well! Have a great weekend! Lee... onth -- me AWESOME FREE Gifts!) ="_http://www.aeroelectric.com">http://www.aeroelectric.com_ (http://www.aeroelectric.com">http//www.aeroelectric.com) > <_http://www.buildersbooks.com_ (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) <_http://www.buildersbooks.com/_ (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) > > ef="_http://www.homebuilthelp.com">http://www.homebuilthelp.com_ (http://www.homebuilthelp.com">http//www.homebuilthelp.com) > ://www.matronics.com/contribution ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. Email Forum - ist">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List) ; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - matronics.com =========== com/">www.aeroelectric.com <_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List_ (http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Rocket-List) > ildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com <_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List_ (http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Rocket-List) > p.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com <_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List_ (http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Rocket-List) > ion">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) <_http://www.matronics.com/Navig ator?Rocket-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List) > =========== ?Rocket-List">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List) <_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List_ (http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Rocket-List) > ======================== ============ u>_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) <_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List) > =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2009
Subject: Re: Road Landing
From: Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com>
Ernest (Sorry this is so long, but maybe it will help and will be worth your time to read it): I believe it is a settled fact that Rockets have more than enough inlet and exit area to cool just fine. If you have a good cooler, good baffling, smooth inlets, an adequate outlet, and no engine/oil/magneto/sparkplug/FI issues---it will (or can be made to) run cool, if it is properly broken in. In my case, I used the RV-10 baffling kit which was a good start but installed "stock" wasn't just right for my engine. I started with 400+ cylinder head temps and 240+ oil. So, I created a systematic plan to go though the cooling system an item at a time. Developed a "root cause" analysis and stuck with it. I learned not to take anything for granted and question everything. The cooling system on any aircraft engine is truly a "system", everything is interrelated. I got countless recommendations from the usual suspects at the airport and all the ideas were good---the invariable problem with them was that they didn't know what was wrong with MY airplane any more than I did. "Check your timing, my uncle did and it fixed his problem", "You've got fouled plugs, my cousin checked his when his engine ran hot and sure enough, 3 of them were fouled", etc. etc. I heard that constantly. If anyone had ever actually diagnosed my airplane to a real-world root cause, the solution would have been obvious. Solutions are easy, it's figuring out what's wrong that is hard---and here is the major pain in all this: Unless you find an obvious smoking gun, you may have to do like I did---just keep modifying and verifying until the temps go down. Change things one at a time; whatever doesn't improve things, change it back. I went through the vernatherm, the cooler, the connections, the oil itself, the filter, the pump, etc. I swapped vernatherms, tested vernatherms, honed the vernatherm seat, even flew it with a blanked off vernatherm (temp went up). I flipped the cooler (to eliminate air pockets), verified the oil lines were connected to the right openings in the accessory case, tested both oil temp gages, tested both oil pressure gages, flow tested the (brand new Stewart Warner) cooler and lines, drained the oil to verify the right amount was on board, swapped oil filters, used a laser temp gage to verify consistent oil temps throughout the engine to "prove" I had proper engine-wide flow (sump, hoses, front, back, sides, top and bottom of the cooler, cylinder heads, barrels, crankcase, accessory case) etc. Over time, I decided it was not the oil system. Went through engine baffles in detail and sealed everything. No leak is too small to fill with RTV. CHT's dropped 10 degrees; reprofiled upper cowl ramps, temps dropped 5 degrees. Cut down the baffle plates in front of cylinders 1 and 2 incrementally, and their temps went down 3-5 degrees each time. Ended up with no baffles in front of 1 and 2 above the inlet ramps. Incrementally removed trailing edge of aft lower cowl (the cowling inlet opening/exit opening areas in effect, "throttle" the airflow through the cowling). Hint: The air going through cowling does not heat up very much in the process of cooling the engine (8-10 degrees, I'm told), it's FLOW that makes the system work. Oil temp came down along with these changes but not as fast. Sometimes very modest changes to the baffles (sealing, trimming) and the exit/outlet size, made large differences to the temps I saw. The oil temps came down too with the plummeting CHT's but still stayed way too high for me. Decided the oil cooler wasn't getting its share of the flow. My cooler was fed by a 4" opening in the right aft baffle feeding through a smooth silicon rubber hose. Added small baffles to channel air into the oil cooler opening (temps dropped 5 degrees), added 3" under-cowl hose to route air from left cowling inlet direct to the cooler (no effect/removed it). Removed baffle elements directly in front of the cylinder *barrels* (the baffles in front of the cylinder heads were already long gone). Oil temps went up. Added "flow" baffles in front of barrells angled back toward rear (instead of the vertical ones that came with the RV-10 baffle kit). Oil temps back down slightly but still high. Decided that the 4" oil cooler opening was not big enough. Fabricated and installed a full cooler sized opening and air path. This took the oil cooler inlet area from just over 12 sq. in. to 24. I figured this was the "big fix" the oil system needed to finally fall into line with the cylinders. Didn't work; no change in oil temps but cylinder temps went back up (marginally). Fabricated and installed a plenum on the back side of the oil cooler feeding a 4" hose routed down to the lower cowl outlet. Theory was that backflow/backpressure in the lower cowling was inhibiting flow through the cooler. Plan was to go full size with an all new plenum and outlet if there was any improvement at all. There wasn't any. What the heck? So... I went through the engine: Changed timing down by 5 degrees; whole system got hotter and power seemed "off". Changed it back. Pulled all the plugs (they were fine); compression checked fine. Okay. If the engine is good and the oil system is good and the inlets and outlet are reasonably close, the cylinder head temps are (now) low, but the oil temp is still above 210 in cruise (at least it is down from the original 240+), what does that leave? This cowling and oil cooler combination is working fine on other Rockets with smaller oil cooler inlets. Decided I would reinstate my flight test program and "live" with the 210 degree oil temp. OAT's had been highish all summer (80 degrees plus, at altitude). My DAR buddy was convinced that the engine was already broken in and running as cool as it was going to run in and of itself. I wasn't so sure. Decided to try one more thing before continuing the flight test program. I cut a small NACA scoop in the lower cowl centerline about 2/3 of the way aft of the fuel injection inlet to the trailing edge of the cowl. It didn't go anywhere, just brought additional air in from the outside and exhausted it immediately out of the lower cowl a few inches in front of the lower trailing edge lip. The theory was that that little "tornado" of air would entrain the slow moving air in the lower cowl and facilitate it in moving more rapidly to the cowling exit. Flew the airplane and bingo! The oil temp dropped to 190 on both gages (I have two independent oil temp and pressure gages). BUT: OAT was down to 45 degrees that day. Did the NACA scoop really work that well, did the engine just break in, or was the OAT effect that dramatic? I only got to fly it once like this before business trips intervened. In the meantime I had to pull my engine monitor and ship it back for recalibration (unrelated to my cooling problems). Down for three weeks. Finally flew it today for the second time since the NACA scoop was installed. OAT up to 58, oil temp down to 185! What finally did the trick? I don't know yet but I will keep you informed. The airport closes tomorrow for 2-3 weeks for resurfacing. I moved my Rocket to a nearby field though so I can continue my test flights. First up: Seal the NACA scoop and see what happens. I will do that Saturday. I'm hoping for a couple of hotter days, so I can gage a broader range of OAT effects. Could be that my engine in fact just broke in and that was the "remainder" of the problem all along; we'll know in a few days. Honest, sorry for the long post but I wanted to get this all straight in my own mind too. Hope those who are facing the same problems will benefit too. Regards, Lee... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2009
Subject: Re: Road Landing
From: Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com>
Great information, thanks for all of the details. We are test flying some modifications today and I will post this weekend to let everyone know what we did and how it worked. Ernest On 11/5/09 11:18 PM, "Lee Logan" wrote: > Ernest (Sorry this is so long, but maybe it will help and will be worth y our > time to read it):- I believe it is a settled fact that Rockets have more than > enough inlet and exit area to cool just fine.- If you have a good cooler, good > baffling, smooth inlets, an adequate outlet, and no > engine/oil/magneto/sparkplug/FI issues---it will (or can be made to) run cool, > if it is properly broken in.- In my case, I used the RV-10 baffling kit w hich > was a good start but installed "stock" wasn't just right for my engine. > > I started with 400+ cylinder head temps and 240+ oil.- So, I created a > systematic plan to go though the cooling system an item at a time.- Devel oped > a "root cause" analysis and stuck with it.- I learned not to take anythin g for > granted and question everything.- The cooling system on any aircraft engi ne is > truly a "system", everything is interrelated.- I got countless recommenda tions > from the usual suspects at the airport and all the ideas were good---the > invariable problem with them was that they didn't know what was wrong wit h MY > airplane any more than I did.- "Check your timing, my uncle did and it fi xed > his problem", "You've got fouled plugs, my cousin checked his when his en gine > ran hot and sure enough, 3 of them were fouled", etc. etc.- I heard that > constantly.- If anyone had ever actually diagnosed my airplane to a real- world > root cause, the solution would have been obvious.- Solutions are easy, it 's > figuring out what's wrong that is hard---and here is the major pain in al l > this:- Unless you find an obvious smoking gun, you may have to do like I > did---just keep modifying and verifying until the temps go down.- Change > things one at a time; whatever doesn't improve things, change it back. > > I went through the vernatherm, the cooler, the connections, the oil itsel f, > the filter, the pump, etc.- I swapped vernatherms, tested vernatherms, ho ned > the vernatherm seat, even flew it with a blanked off vernatherm (temp wen t > up).- I flipped the cooler (to eliminate air pockets), verified the oil l ines > were connected to the right openings in the accessory case, tested both o il > temp gages, tested both oil pressure gages, flow tested the (brand new St ewart > Warner) cooler and lines, drained the oil to verify the right amount was on > board, swapped oil filters, used a laser temp gage to verify consistent o il > temps throughout the engine to "prove" I had proper engine-wide flow (sum p, > hoses, front, back, sides, top and bottom of the cooler, cylinder heads, > barrels, crankcase, accessory case) etc.- Over time, I decided it was not the > oil system. > > Went through engine baffles in detail and sealed everything. No leak is t oo > small to fill with RTV.- CHT's dropped 10 degrees; reprofiled upper cowl > ramps, temps dropped 5 degrees.- Cut down the baffle plates in front of > cylinders 1 and 2 incrementally, and their temps went down 3-5 degrees ea ch > time.- Ended up with no baffles in front of 1 and 2 above the inlet ramps .- > Incrementally removed trailing edge of aft lower cowl (the cowling inlet > opening/exit opening areas in effect, "throttle" the airflow through the > cowling).- Hint: The air going through cowling does not heat up very much in > the process of cooling the engine (8-10 degrees, I'm told), it's FLOW tha t > makes the system work.- Oil temp came down along with these changes but n ot as > fast.- Sometimes very modest changes to the baffles (sealing, trimming) a nd > the exit/outlet size, made large differences to the temps I saw.- The oil > temps came down too with the plummeting CHT's but still stayed way too hi gh > for me. > > Decided the oil cooler wasn't getting its share of the flow.- My cooler w as > fed by a 4" opening in the right aft baffle feeding through a smooth sili con > rubber hose.- Added small baffles to channel air into the oil cooler open ing > (temps dropped 5 degrees), added 3" under-cowl hose to route air from lef t > cowling inlet direct to the cooler (no effect/removed it).- Removed baffl e > elements directly in front of the cylinder barrels (the baffles in front of > the cylinder heads were already long gone).- Oil temps went up.- Added "f low" > baffles in front of barrells angled back toward rear (instead of the vert ical > ones that came with the RV-10 baffle kit).- Oil temps back down slightly but > still high. > > Decided that the 4" oil cooler opening was not big enough. Fabricated and > installed a full cooler sized opening and air path.- This took the oil co oler > inlet area from just over 12 sq. in. to 24.- I figured this was the "big fix" > the oil system needed to finally fall into line with the cylinders.- Didn 't > work; no change in oil temps but cylinder temps went back up (marginally) .- > Fabricated and installed a plenum on the back side of the oil cooler feed ing a > 4" hose routed down to the lower cowl outlet.- Theory was that > backflow/backpressure in the lower cowling was inhibiting flow through th e > cooler.- Plan was to go full size with an all new plenum and outlet if th ere > was any improvement at all.- There wasn't any. - > > What the heck?- So... I went through the engine: Changed timing down by 5 > degrees; whole system got hotter and power seemed "off".- Changed it back .- > Pulled all the plugs (they were fine); compression checked fine. > > Okay.- If the engine is good and the oil system is good and the inlets an d > outlet are reasonably close, the cylinder head temps are (now) low, but t he > oil temp is still above 210 in cruise (at least it is down from the origi nal > 240+), what does that leave?- This cowling and oil cooler combination is > working fine on other Rockets with smaller oil cooler inlets.- Decided I would > reinstate my flight test program and "live" with the 210 degree oil temp. - > OAT's had been highish all summer (80 degrees plus, at altitude).- My DAR > buddy was convinced that the engine was already broken in and running as cool > as it was going to run in and of itself.- I wasn't so sure.- Decided to t ry > one more thing before continuing the flight test program.- I cut a small NACA > scoop in the lower cowl centerline about 2/3 of the way aft of the fuel > injection inlet to the trailing edge of the cowl.- It didn't go anywhere, just > brought additional air in from the outside and exhausted it immediately o ut of > the lower cowl a few inches in front of the lower trailing edge lip.- The > theory was that that little "tornado" of air would entrain the slow movin g air > in the lower cowl and facilitate it in moving more rapidly to the cowling > exit.- Flew the airplane and bingo!- The oil temp dropped to 190 on both gages > (I have two independent oil temp and pressure gages).- BUT: OAT was down to 45 > degrees that day.- Did the NACA scoop really work that well, did the engi ne > just break in, or was the OAT effect that dramatic?- I only got to fly it once > like this before business trips intervened. > > In the meantime I had to pull my engine monitor and ship it back for > recalibration (unrelated to my cooling problems).- Down for three weeks.- > Finally flew it today for the second time since the NACA scoop was instal led.- > OAT up to 58, oil temp down to 185!- What finally did the trick? I don't know > yet but I will keep you informed.- The airport closes tomorrow for 2-3 we eks > for resurfacing.- I moved my Rocket to a nearby field though so I can con tinue > my test flights.- First up: Seal the NACA scoop and see what happens.- I will > do that Saturday.- I'm hoping for a couple of hotter days, so I can gage a > broader range of OAT effects.- Could be that my engine in fact just broke in > and that was the "remainder" of the problem all along; we'll know in a fe w > days. > > Honest, sorry for the long post but I wanted to get this all straight in my > own mind too.- Hope those who are facing the same problems will benefit t oo. > > Regards, > > Lee... > > > <http://www.buildersbooks.com> om> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net>
Subject: Re: Road Landing
Date: Nov 06, 2009
Not a Rocket but pretty close so I'll throw my nickel in the ring. Had an engine out in my RV3 several yrs ago, was in the pattern but due to altitude, wind, runway configuration ect decided to use the County road that runs next to the Airpark (54T) No traffic so was only concerned with powerlines as I got low. Had decided that two things were NOT going to happen, no stalling allowed and no running into any powerlines. As I got close to the road on final discovered 6 sets of wires running across the road in my path, altitude and speed allowed me to overfly 5 of them , as I approached the last set made the decision to fly over #5 and under #6. Prolly could have overflown #6 too but speed/altitude were was depleting. Remembered the 2 rules vividly. Nice plan but the devil is in the details, plenty of clearance on the wires but flew the plane into the road, folded the gear up to the point that the wheels dented the wing tanks, slid to a stop, hopped out (expecting a fire) before the plane stopped. no fire, tanks intact but dented. Half a dozen spectators stopped quickly, one of them took me to my house 2 blocks away where I got my truck and boat trailer, 10-12 of us lifted the plane onto the trailer and I had it locked up in my hangar 20 min after touchdown, no TV, no newspaper, sheriff, FAA etc. WHEW !! I had flown the RV about 500 hrs and had practiced engine outs many times with an idling engine. There is a BIG difference between idling and engine stopped in sink rate. BIG difference. Had a sore butt for a month and the seat belt bruises were world class but the rest was just aluminum distress which is easier to fix than compressed vertebrae. Lucky that day ! Still don't understand why I flew it into the road, have done a couple hundred of beach, off airport landings in the RV prior to that and was comfortable (maybe too comfortable) in the airplane. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Wallis <brianpwallis(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Remove
Date: Nov 06, 2009
Please remove me from the list Best, Brian ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: rocket cooling
Date: Nov 06, 2009
Great post Lee, I had similar experience with my early flights and even had to land 5 minutes after takeoff as my CHTs soared into the high 400s. I have 10:1 forged racing pistons with ceramic heads and moly b coated sides. My engine took 140 hours to finally break the last cylinder in. Until it is broke in, temps are a big problem. You found many ways to mitigate the problem but I'll bet your engine is still just running hot due to a slow and long breakin period. Consider this, the Rocket is so light that the engine does not have enough load on it to do its breakin in the normal amount of time. I started running mine 24" at 2200 rpm in an attempt to load it up and that is when the final cylinder broke in. I also reduced my timing to 22 deg BTDC to help with the increased compression. Additionally, some local success has be realized by adding a small downward lip on the aft edge of the lower cowl to create a low pressure area where the cooling air is exiting the cowl. This seems to accellerate that cooling air which then allows more air to flow through your cowl. Jim Winnings did this with success. I was about to try it when my engine normalize. My normal numbers are 325 or so on CHTs and I lean to 50 deg LOP after level off and a few potatoes for CHT cooling and stabilizing. Hang in there, you will enjoy it much more when you don't have to worry so much about engine temps. Jim Stone Louisville KY Friend of Ben Cunningham ----- Original Message ----- From: Lee Logan To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 11:18 PM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing Ernest (Sorry this is so long, but maybe it will help and will be worth your time to read it): I believe it is a settled fact that Rockets have more than enough inlet and exit area to cool just fine. If you have a good cooler, good baffling, smooth inlets, an adequate outlet, and no engine/oil/magneto/sparkplug/FI issues---it will (or can be made to) run cool, if it is properly broken in. In my case, I used the RV-10 baffling kit which was a good start but installed "stock" wasn't just right for my engine. I started with 400+ cylinder head temps and 240+ oil. So, I created a systematic plan to go though the cooling system an item at a time. Developed a "root cause" analysis and stuck with it. I learned not to take anything for granted and question everything. The cooling system on any aircraft engine is truly a "system", everything is interrelated. I got countless recommendations from the usual suspects at the airport and all the ideas were good---the invariable problem with them was that they didn't know what was wrong with MY airplane any more than I did. "Check your timing, my uncle did and it fixed his problem", "You've got fouled plugs, my cousin checked his when his engine ran hot and sure enough, 3 of them were fouled", etc. etc. I heard that constantly. If anyone had ever actually diagnosed my airplane to a real-world root cause, the solution would have been obvious. Solutions are easy, it's figuring out what's wrong that is hard---and here is the major pain in all this: Unless you find an obvious smoking gun, you may have to do like I did---just keep modifying and verifying until the temps go down. Change things one at a time; whatever doesn't improve things, change it back. I went through the vernatherm, the cooler, the connections, the oil itself, the filter, the pump, etc. I swapped vernatherms, tested vernatherms, honed the vernatherm seat, even flew it with a blanked off vernatherm (temp went up). I flipped the cooler (to eliminate air pockets), verified the oil lines were connected to the right openings in the accessory case, tested both oil temp gages, tested both oil pressure gages, flow tested the (brand new Stewart Warner) cooler and lines, drained the oil to verify the right amount was on board, swapped oil filters, used a laser temp gage to verify consistent oil temps throughout the engine to "prove" I had proper engine-wide flow (sump, hoses, front, back, sides, top and bottom of the cooler, cylinder heads, barrels, crankcase, accessory case) etc. Over time, I decided it was not the oil system. Went through engine baffles in detail and sealed everything. No leak is too small to fill with RTV. CHT's dropped 10 degrees; reprofiled upper cowl ramps, temps dropped 5 degrees. Cut down the baffle plates in front of cylinders 1 and 2 incrementally, and their temps went down 3-5 degrees each time. Ended up with no baffles in front of 1 and 2 above the inlet ramps. Incrementally removed trailing edge of aft lower cowl (the cowling inlet opening/exit opening areas in effect, "throttle" the airflow through the cowling). Hint: The air going through cowling does not heat up very much in the process of cooling the engine (8-10 degrees, I'm told), it's FLOW that makes the system work. Oil temp came down along with these changes but not as fast. Sometimes very modest changes to the baffles (sealing, trimming) and the exit/outlet size, made large differences to the temps I saw. The oil temps came down too with the plummeting CHT's but still stayed way too high for me. Decided the oil cooler wasn't getting its share of the flow. My cooler was fed by a 4" opening in the right aft baffle feeding through a smooth silicon rubber hose. Added small baffles to channel air into the oil cooler opening (temps dropped 5 degrees), added 3" under-cowl hose to route air from left cowling inlet direct to the cooler (no effect/removed it). Removed baffle elements directly in front of the cylinder barrels (the baffles in front of the cylinder heads were already long gone). Oil temps went up. Added "flow" baffles in front of barrells angled back toward rear (instead of the vertical ones that came with the RV-10 baffle kit). Oil temps back down slightly but still high. Decided that the 4" oil cooler opening was not big enough. Fabricated and installed a full cooler sized opening and air path. This took the oil cooler inlet area from just over 12 sq. in. to 24. I figured this was the "big fix" the oil system needed to finally fall into line with the cylinders. Didn't work; no change in oil temps but cylinder temps went back up (marginally). Fabricated and installed a plenum on the back side of the oil cooler feeding a 4" hose routed down to the lower cowl outlet. Theory was that backflow/backpressure in the lower cowling was inhibiting flow through the cooler. Plan was to go full size with an all new plenum and outlet if there was any improvement at all. There wasn't any. What the heck? So... I went through the engine: Changed timing down by 5 degrees; whole system got hotter and power seemed "off". Changed it back. Pulled all the plugs (they were fine); compression checked fine. Okay. If the engine is good and the oil system is good and the inlets and outlet are reasonably close, the cylinder head temps are (now) low, but the oil temp is still above 210 in cruise (at least it is down from the original 240+), what does that leave? This cowling and oil cooler combination is working fine on other Rockets with smaller oil cooler inlets. Decided I would reinstate my flight test program and "live" with the 210 degree oil temp. OAT's had been highish all summer (80 degrees plus, at altitude). My DAR buddy was convinced that the engine was already broken in and running as cool as it was going to run in and of itself. I wasn't so sure. Decided to try one more thing before continuing the flight test program. I cut a small NACA scoop in the lower cowl centerline about 2/3 of the way aft of the fuel injection inlet to the trailing edge of the cowl. It didn't go anywhere, just brought additional air in from the outside and exhausted it immediately out of the lower cowl a few inches in front of the lower trailing edge lip. The theory was that that little "tornado" of air would entrain the slow moving air in the lower cowl and facilitate it in moving more rapidly to the cowling exit. Flew the airplane and bingo! The oil temp dropped to 190 on both gages (I have two independent oil temp and pressure gages). BUT: OAT was down to 45 degrees that day. Did the NACA scoop really work that well, did the engine just break in, or was the OAT effect that dramatic? I only got to fly it once like this before business trips intervened. In the meantime I had to pull my engine monitor and ship it back for recalibration (unrelated to my cooling problems). Down for three weeks. Finally flew it today for the second time since the NACA scoop was installed. OAT up to 58, oil temp down to 185! What finally did the trick? I don't know yet but I will keep you informed. The airport closes tomorrow for 2-3 weeks for resurfacing. I moved my Rocket to a nearby field though so I can continue my test flights. First up: Seal the NACA scoop and see what happens. I will do that Saturday. I'm hoping for a couple of hotter days, so I can gage a broader range of OAT effects. Could be that my engine in fact just broke in and that was the "remainder" of the problem all along; we'll know in a few days. Honest, sorry for the long post but I wanted to get this all straight in my own mind too. Hope those who are facing the same problems will benefit too. Regards, Lee... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: And a teeny bit more on road and off-airport landings from
another who's done it...
Date: Nov 07, 2009
From: "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" <andrew(at)nzactive.com>
....if John's was a nickel, here's my 2c worth... I've had 2 engine failures in my RV4 (problem now traced & fixed - old style carb & inlet meant ineffective carb heat) and have landed on a road once, as a precautionary measure due bad weather, but no engine or airframe problems, in the Rocket. I was trained to choose fields over roads, and I think, in general, that's a wise policy. Reasons include - wires, which are invisible from afar - roads can be very narrow & curved, plus sloped, which can mean a loss of directional control leads to going off the road and... - hitting poles etc - traffic I think it's worth making a distinction bw landing on a US-style freeway, and landing on a backcountry road. Certainly an empty-ish freeway would be very tempting. With heavy traffic, not so much. Backcountry road? They can be VERY narrow, not necessarily straight, and are often strewn with obstacles, ditches beside them, and all manner of dangerous things. In an engine failure situation, I'm more concerned about finding somewhere flat & obstacle free (& WIRE free!!) than saving the aircraft, and in general, I would take a field over a backcountry road, nearly every time, UNLESS it's a autobahn/freeway, I could be reasonably sure about wires, and the traffic is not too bad. I think it's really important to remember that if the engine has quit, the aircraft is expendable, getting in trouble with authorities is irelevant, and saving oneself & one's passengers MUST be the highest/only priority. The aircraft has already let you down at that stage, so it's expendable. I reckon it's worth thinking about that on the ground, in advance, so there's no hesitation if the decision ever had to be made for real. It's true that RV4s and other taildraggers can overturn easily on rough surfaces - Rockets even more so - but my exerience of exactly that happening, on a field, was that a lot of speed was bled off before that happening. Touch down at, say, 50 knots...and the kinetic energy absorbed by the first few feet of rollout, and the overturn itself, means it can happen at pretty low speed, say 30 knots or less, making the overturn a very survivable event. I reckon there's also worthwhile distinction between having to do all this because of engine failure, and a precautionary landing with a properly functioning aircraft. In the former case, you're committed, can't overshoot, etc, and in nearly all cases of engine failure I'd take a field, unless I was REALLY sure that the road had no wires, was wide enough, etc. (ie, prior local knowledge). In the latter case, with plenty of time & ability to reconnoitre, even to signal to someone on the ground to block the road, by doing dummy approaches and hoping someone cottons on to your intent...... a road, with its reliable surface and lower chance of tipping upside down, is more appealing, and you have the TIME to check for wires and stuff. Also worth bearing in mind the kind of landing to make - the RV4, and to a lesser degree the Rocket, touches down pretty slow in a 3-point attitude. It's easy to accidentally carry a bit of extra airspeed in these situations, which leads to a wheeler landing, and that extra speed will make an overturn more likely. So it's a 3-pointer, in most cases, with full flap of course. And, finally, when the Big Silence happens for real, it's hard to be entirely calm and rational. Roads "feel" safer, in part because of their familiarity, but I think it would be easy to miss wires, poles etc when the chips are down and the adrenalin starts flowing. Fields leave more margin, if dead sticking an aircraft very precisely into a very small space is not something one practices every day, and if fear, lack of currency, or whatever, means one doesn't do it perfectly. (Which is to be expected!!) Bottom line is, nearly all engine failure situations are survivable, even walk-away-able from, IF one can get the aircraft into the beginning of a field or other flat area, at minimum airspeed and virtually zero ROD at touch down. It's the solid ojects that'll hurt ya - and there are a lot of those around roads. a PS One thing I've noticed - quite a few RV4s and Rockets seem to fly around with no rollbar. ("Rollover bar", in American-speak?). No criticism or controvery-sparking intended in any of this, but personally, I won't fly without one - a good, solid bar which matches the interior shape of the canopy (ie, a broad inverted "U" shape) is, I reckon, the best neck-saving, anti-engine-failure insurance going. I hope that's maybe useful to someone, someday. a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2009
Subject: Re: rocket cooling
From: Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com>
Jim: Good to hear from you and thanks for checking in. Be sure to say hello and Happy Birthday to Bosco for me. Great guy!! Remind him he promised to show up here in his -7 one of these days. BTW, I agree with your analysis...in fact, though I didn't mention it, I installed a small external lip on my lower cowl exit also. It worked just as you advertise in your email. I didn't want it to be permanent (aesthetics), so cut another 1/2" to 1" off the cowl trailing edge (eliminating the lip) and that produced the same reduction in temperatures. Stuck with that. The other issue you raised was break-in. I was never convinced that my engine had gone "over the top" all the way to break-in as I was being told by others. Not only is my engine is an interesting hybrid (IO-540K1G5 case and crank, with ECi parallel valve cylinders and 9,5:1 forged pistons) that was put together for my by my friend Bart Dalton in Oklahoma. He suggested this engine "mixture" as being super strong, powerful, and reliable. I'm pretty sure he is exactly right. I started it from day one on Phillips X/C 20W50 and just couldn't see how it could be broken in in only 15-18 hours. I will close up the NACA scoop tomorrow and see if there is any difference in oil temps. My cylinders are now running in the low 300's at cruise. I don't have the injectors sorted out on mine yet, so I'm not where you are on LOP, but I can pull it back pretty seriously and it still runs well. I'm a gallon or better apart cylinder to cylinder going over peak, so I've got some work to do there. Regards and thanks for the info, Lee... On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Jim Stone wrote: > Great post Lee, > > I had similar experience with my early flights and even had to land 5 > minutes after takeoff as my CHTs soared into the high 400s. > I have 10:1 forged racing pistons with ceramic heads and moly b coated > sides. My engine took 140 hours to finally break the last cylinder in. > Until it is broke in, temps are a big problem. You found many ways to > mitigate the problem but I'll bet your engine is still just running hot due > to a slow and long breakin period. Consider this, the Rocket is so light > that the engine does not have enough load on it to do its breakin in the > normal amount of time. I started running mine 24" at 2200 rpm in an attempt > to load it up and that is when the final cylinder broke in. I also reduced > my timing to 22 deg BTDC to help with the increased compression. > Additionally, some local success has be realized by adding a small downward > lip on the aft edge of the lower cowl to create a low pressure area where > the cooling air is exiting the cowl. This seems to accellerate that cooling > air which then allows more air to flow through your cowl. Jim Winnings did > this with success. I was about to try it when my engine normalize. > My normal numbers are 325 or so on CHTs and I lean to 50 deg LOP after > level off and a few potatoes for CHT cooling and stabilizing. > Hang in there, you will enjoy it much more when you don't have to worry so > much about engine temps. > > Jim Stone > Louisville KY > Friend of Ben Cunningham > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists
Dear Listers, There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums. The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November Fund Raiser. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution too! You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551-0347 Thank you in advance for your generous support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tom Martin <fairlea(at)amtelecom.net>
Subject: High Temps!
Date: Nov 07, 2009
It is nice to see some action on the rocket list! Engine cooling, especially with rockets, has been something that I have been working on for quite a few years on quite a few planes. My focus has not only been to properly cool the engine but to do so without increasing drag. If you open the bottom of the cowling you will, usually, improve cooling. However if not done properly this will also increase drag and hence reduce speed. Yes I know that there will be those that say that they have not noticed any degradation of speed but that has not been my experience. Lay on your back under your airplane and look up at the firewall. If you can see the firewall you have increased the drag of your airplane. The air exiting the cowling is pushing down that firewall and creating turbulence with the rest of the exiting air and the outside air that is rushing past the cowling. If you need more opening it would be better to drop the floor of the cowling and extend it aft. Yes this is more work but what it does, is to get the air exiting the cowling going in the same direction as the air going past the airplane. Internal ductwork in the lower cowling and cleaning up the outlet area can also improve flow and reduce drag by increasing the speed of the exit air. All that work will be for naught if your inlets are not formed properly. By that I mean that there should be no rough edges, there should be a smooth transition area and tight seals around the inlet and the upper plenum. My work has been proven in the races that I have participated in during the last few years HYPERLINK "http://sportairrace.org/index.html"http://sportairrace.org/index.html note the recent Pagosa Springs race where my average speed was 220.5 knots placing me in front of three, count them three, Glassair IIIs. The HRIIs, over the last few years, have not been doing that well in the races as compared to the F1s and particularly in regards to John Huft=92s very fast RV8. He has been kicking some rocket butt. You will not see huge exit air outlets on any of the fast airplanes in these races. While you may not be interested in racing, drag reduction, with improved cooling, will save you money on each and every flight you take. Checked by AVG. 15/05/2009 6:16 AM Checked by AVG. 15/05/2009 6:16 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2009
Subject: Re: High Temps!
From: Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com>
Tom: I hear you loud and clear. My plan, now that my temps are quite low all around, is to incrementally close my exit back up until the temps react upward and then to "tune" the outlet smaller and smaller until I reach (hopefully) faster speeds and acceptable temps. Right now, I have some "excess" to play with---and I'm glad to have it! Regards, Lee... 2009/11/7 Tom Martin > It is nice to see some action on the rocket list! Engine > cooling, especially with rockets, has been something that I have been > working on for quite a few years on quite a few planes. My focus has not > only been to properly cool the engine but to do so without increasing dra g. > If you open the bottom of the cowling you will, usually, improve cooling . > However if not done properly this will also increase drag and hence redu ce > speed. Yes I know that there will be those that say that they have not > noticed any degradation of speed but that has not been my experience. > > Lay on your back under your airplane and look up at the firewall . > If you can see the firewall you have increased the drag of your airplane. > The air exiting the cowling is pushing down that firewall and creating > turbulence with the rest of the exiting air and the outside air that is > rushing past the cowling. If you need more opening it would be better to > drop the floor of the cowling and extend it aft. Yes this is more work b ut > what it does, is to get the air exiting the cowling going in the same > direction as the air going past the airplane. Internal ductwork in the > lower cowling and cleaning up the outlet area can also improve flow and > reduce drag by increasing the speed of the exit air. > > All that work will be for naught if your inlets are not formed > properly. By that I mean that there should be no rough edges, there shou ld > be a smooth transition area and tight seals around the inlet and the uppe r > plenum. > > My work has been proven in the races that I have participated in > during the last few years http://sportairrace.org/index.html note the > recent Pagosa Springs race where my average speed was 220.5 knots placing me > in front of three, count them three, Glassair IIIs. The HRIIs, over the > last few years, have not been doing that well in the races as compared to > the F1s and particularly in regards to John Huft=92s very fast RV8. He h as > been kicking some rocket butt. You will not see huge exit air outlets on > any of the fast airplanes in these races. While you may not be intereste d > in racing, drag reduction, with improved cooling, will save you money on > each and every flight you take. > > > Checked by AVG. > > > Checked by AVG. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2009
Subject: Re: High Temps!
From: Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com>
Well, the saga of N540HB continues. Yesterday we built some aluminum box extenders that fit into the air inlets and protruded about an inch out in front of the cowling. Additionally I had the lip on the outlet at the bottom of the cowling cut off. Well, took off and the CHT=B9s were climbing faster than the rocket. Hit 470 before I got to 1,000 feet. Got back into the pattern and landed worried about causing major problems since the CHT=B9s were having a hard time coming down. Took off again, this time with not much power, and flew around the airport at 17=B2 of MP. All of the CHT=B9s wer e above 400 with most being around 420. Again, full mixture, 17=B2 and 2,000 feet. Landed, decided that our miracle patch wasn=B9t what it was expected t o be and took the extenders off. Feeling a bit discouraged I decide to take it up again without our device in place and see what was going on. Eureka, the CHT=B9s were cooler than I have seen them in a long time. I flew around a bit, it seemed as though the CHT and EGT were acting almost normal. I am not sure if I can attach pics or not but am going to try. I think that wha t made the difference was taking the lip off of the exit area. After reading the post by Lee I guess that the additional area that was created in the exit was more beneficial than the lip that used to be there. It is a bit perplexing though as I have been told on the list that 1.5:1 is the correct ratio for exit area as opposed to entry area and I have way more than that. Now for the next problem. About 5 years ago I had a rudder cable disconnec t from the rudder pedal as I was landing in a 15 knot cross wind. Upon landing the only thing I could do was to hit the rudder pedal that was stil l connected and ground loop the plane. As I looped the gear collapsed and I ended up damaging the wing spar in one of my wings thus having to replace the wing. I think, after much consternation, that the new wing isn=B9t an exact match of the old one and thus I am left wing heavy. We have tried al l of the tricks of moving around the flaps but I still have to hold maximum aileron trim when I am in cruise. Any one have any tricks to changing the way a wing works short of having a new pair made? If N540HB were a person she would be a case study at Johns Hopkins. Tried to send the pics, they wouldn=B9t go, if anyone would like to see them let me know and I will send them to you out of this system. Ernest On 11/7/09 8:11 AM, "Lee Logan" wrote: > Tom:- I hear you loud and clear.- My plan, now that my temps are quite lo w all > around, is to incrementally close my exit back up until the temps react u pward > and then to "tune" the outlet smaller and smaller until I reach (hopefull y) > faster speeds and acceptable temps.- Right now, I have some "excess" to p lay > with---and I'm glad to have it! > > Regards, > > Lee... > > 2009/11/7 Tom Martin >>> -------- It is nice to see some action on the rocket list! --Engine coo ling, >>> especially with rockets, has been something that I have been working on for >>> quite a few years on quite a few planes. -My focus has not only been to >>> properly cool the engine but to do so without increasing drag. -If you open >>> the bottom of the cowling you will, usually, improve cooling. -However if >>> not done properly this will also increase drag and hence reduce speed. --Yes >>> I know that there will be those that say that they have not noticed any >>> degradation of speed but that has not been my experience. >>> -------- Lay on your back under your airplane and look up at the firewa ll.- >>> If you can see the firewall you have increased the drag of your airplan e.- >>> The air exiting the cowling is pushing down that firewall and creating >>> turbulence with the rest of the exiting air and the outside air that is >>> rushing past the cowling. -If you need more opening it would be better to >>> drop the floor of the cowling and extend it aft. -Yes this is more work but >>> what it does, is to get the air exiting the cowling going in the same >>> direction as the air going past the airplane. -Internal ductwork in the >>> lower cowling and cleaning up the outlet area can also improve flow and >>> reduce drag by increasing the speed of the exit air. >>> -------- All that work will be for naught if your inlets are not formed >>> properly. -By that I mean that there should be no rough edges, there sh ould >>> be a smooth transition area and tight seals around the inlet and the up per >>> plenum. - >>> -------- My work has been proven in the races that I have participated in >>> during the last few years http://sportairrace.org/index.html --note the >>> recent Pagosa Springs race where my average speed was 220.5 knots placi ng me >>> in front of three, count them three, Glassair IIIs. -The HRIIs, over th e >>> last few years, have not been doing that well in the races as compared to >>> the F1s and particularly in regards to John Huft=B9s very fast RV8.- He h as >>> been kicking some rocket butt.- You will not see huge exit air outlets on >>> any of the fast airplanes in these races.- While you may not be interes ted >>> in racing, drag reduction, with improved cooling, will save you money o n >>> each and every flight you take. >> >> Checked by AVG. >> >> >> >> Checked by AVG. >> > > > > <http://www.buildersbooks.com> om> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Fund Raiser List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution
Today! Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Shannon" <kshannon(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: High Temps!
Date: Nov 10, 2009
Re: Rocket-List: High Temps!All great info thanks Tom, my cowling is a very early HR II version and the exit ramp is not deep enough to clear the exhaust pipes without cutting it off forward of the firewall. I see now that I should have done it over back when I was building, made it about an inch and a half deeper and extended it aft, which would suck air out instead of creating turbulence. Looks like I have something to do this winter! Kevin Shannon HR II ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Martin To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:36 AM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: High Temps! It is nice to see some action on the rocket list! Engine cooling, especially with rockets, has been something that I have been working on for quite a few years on quite a few planes. My focus has not only been to properly cool the engine but to do so without increasing drag. If you open the bottom of the cowling you will, usually, improve cooling. However if not done properly this will also increase drag and hence reduce speed. Yes I know that there will be those that say that they have not noticed any degradation of speed but that has not been my experience. Lay on your back under your airplane and look up at the firewall. If you can see the firewall you have increased the drag of your airplane. The air exiting the cowling is pushing down that firewall and creating turbulence with the rest of the exiting air and the outside air that is rushing past the cowling. If you need more opening it would be better to drop the floor of the cowling and extend it aft. Yes this is more work but what it does, is to get the air exiting the cowling going in the same direction as the air going past the airplane. Internal ductwork in the lower cowling and cleaning up the outlet area can also improve flow and reduce drag by increasing the speed of the exit air. All that work will be for naught if your inlets are not formed properly. By that I mean that there should be no rough edges, there should be a smooth transition area and tight seals around the inlet and the upper plenum. My work has been proven in the races that I have participated in during the last few years http://sportairrace.org/index.html note the recent Pagosa Springs race where my average speed was 220.5 knots placing me in front of three, count them three, Glassair IIIs. The HRIIs, over the last few years, have not been doing that well in the races as compared to the F1s and particularly in regards to John Huft=92s very fast RV8. He has been kicking some rocket butt. You will not see huge exit air outlets on any of the fast airplanes in these races. While you may not be interested in racing, drag reduction, with improved cooling, will save you money on each and every flight you take. Checked by AVG. Checked by AVG. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 11/06/09 12:39:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Fund Raiser
Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well! Please make your Contribution today: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Some Very Nice Comments...
Dear Listers, I've been getting some really nice comments from Listers along with their List Support Contributions. I've shared some of them below. Please read them over and see what your fellow Listers think of the Lists and Forums. Please make a Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation of these services. There are lots of sweet gifts available, so browse the extensive selection and pickup a nice item along with your qualifying Contribution. http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ----------- What Listers Are Saying About The Lists ----------- Few things in life bring more usefulness than the List. This is worth every penny! Stephen T. I have enjoyed the list for way too many years, but continue to get closer to flying my project with the help of listers. C.L. Thanks for this List. It's been a great source of encouragement and information. Arden A. Great service! Gerald T. It's always interesting reading the lists and I've gotten some good help from the issues and answers there. Steve T. Been a member of the List for 12 years. Keep up the good work. John H. Great Site! Harry M. Great source of information... Martin H. Thanks for providing this great service! Jeff P. I continue to get and give information through these lists. Ralph C. This is a wonderful resource! Warren H. This is what inernet was meant for, sharing information and experience. Michael W. Thanks for making such a good list! Fred D. Thanks for running a great service! Michael F. I really appreciate it. Dan H. Thanks for the great service. Michael L. Thanks for maintaining this great resource. John C. Your sites have been a great resourses and an introduction to many competent aircraft designers and fabricators. Jon M. Thanks for all that you do to maintain the Matronics forums and for the personal help that you have been to me in answering my questions regarding the use of the forums. William B. [The List] helped me get flying, fly off my test hours and make my systems better. Ralph C. The Universe is a better place because of you. Eric J. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Contributions Down By 21%...
Dear Listers, As of today, contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind last year at this time by 21%. I have a fund raiser each year simply to cover my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income to support the Lists and rely solely on the contributions of members to keep the expenses paid. I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet connection is a commercial-grade, T1 connection with public address space. I also maintain a full backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related data so that in the event of a server crash or worse, all of the Lists and the many years of List archive data could be restored onto a new server in a matter of hours. All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of my personal time as well. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs and I ask that members that feel they receive a benefit from my investments, make a modest contribution each year to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. If you enjoy the Lists, please make a contribution today. I also offer some incentive gifts for larger contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Wite, you can use a credit card, Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the continuation of these services: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Unexpected humor
Date: Nov 16, 2009
For those of you who haven't seen this on AvWeb. Apparently the Gators' win was totally unexpected and inflicted quite a bit of damage on the Bulldogs' ego. Hence the response. Nico Short Final On a recent trip in my Cirrus from KSAV to KPDK, I had this exchange with Atlanta Approach. (This was right after the FL-GA football game where the Gators won ... again.) ATL: "N267CP, you are cleared to PDK via the TRBOW8 arrival. Proceed direct from present position to TRBOW." N267CP (me) : "N267CP cleared direct TRBOW for the TRBOW8. Are you sure that shouldn't be renamed TEBOW for the beating that your Bulldogs took?" ATL: "N267CP, one more remark about the beatdown, and I will amend your clearance to IAH, LAX direct PDK!" N267CP "N267CP O.K. TRBOW8 it is!" ATL: "Smart man." Steve King via e-mail ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What's My Contribution Used For?
Dear Listers, Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides for the very expensive, commercial-grade T1 Internet connection used on the List insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when accessing List services. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest performance possible for services such as the Archive Search Engine, List Browser, and Forums. It pays for narly 20 years (yeah, I really said *20* years) worth of online archive data available for instant random search and access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums, and Wiki. But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all those statements these days? It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many aspects of these valuable List services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of the best investments you can make in your Sport... List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society
Date: Nov 19, 2009
I wrote about a riskless society. Check it out: TruthByRushDelivery <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/11/riskless-society.html> Thanks Nico ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society
Date: Nov 19, 2009
From: im7shannon(at)aol.com
Why does this need to be posted in a discussion group about building and flying Rockets? -----Original Message----- From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 4:34 pm Subject: Rocket-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society I wrote about a riskless society. Check it out: TruthByRushDelivery Thanks Nico ======================== =========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The Rocket-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neal George" <n8zg(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society
Date: Nov 19, 2009
To paraphrase one whom I admire (even if it is only a line from a movie): I haven't sufficient flow of speech to answer adequately. I'll try anyway. Nico's musings on the steady erosion of the liberty guaranteed by our Constitution, paid for with the blood of patriots, are directly related to building and flying Rockets (and RVs, and Commanders, and even lowly Cherokees) and everything else we do or enjoy as citizens of the greatest country God ever gave Man. Being a naturalized citizen, Nico has perspective and insight that many of us mere natives lack. We would do well to learn from him. Neal E. George, Capt, USAF Navarre, FL RV-7 N8ZG CherokeeJet N9586J A&P/IA ========= From: On Behalf Of im7shannon(at)aol.com Why does this need to be posted in a discussion group about building and flying Rockets? I wrote about a riskless society. Check it out: TruthByRushDelivery <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/11/riskless-society.html> Thanks Nico ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wolfgang Meyn" <mw104(at)netmdc.com>
Subject: Re: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society
Date: Nov 19, 2009
+1 Sick and tired of this BS. Thanks Wolfgang From: im7shannon(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:17 PM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society Why does this need to be posted in a discussion group about building and flying Rockets? -----Original Message----- From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 4:34 pm Subject: Rocket-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society I wrote about a riskless society. Check it out: TruthByRushDelivery Thanks Nico =_blank>www.aeroelectric.com m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List tp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wolfgang Meyn" <mw104(at)netmdc.com>
Subject:
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Please take me off the list. Thanks Wolfgang ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Well, the folks on this list oftentimes share things with one another and I thought the behavioral sciences that determine the risks and their impact on insurance might be something that would be of interest to some (I just couldn't cite a personal example involving aviation insurance but I can make something up if you wish). The link is so short that deleting without reading it is entirely acceptable. Next time I post something on this list that's not entirely reeking of avgas, you can safely delete it by the [TruthByRushDelivery] inclusion in the Subject line. Sorry if I offended you, im7shannon(at)aol.com. ________________________________ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of im7shannon(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:18 PM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society Why does this need to be posted in a discussion group about building and flying Rockets? -----Original Message----- From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 4:34 pm Subject: Rocket-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society I wrote about a riskless society. Check it out: TruthByRushDelivery <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/11/riskless-society.html> Thanks Nico =================================== =_blank>www.aeroelectric.com m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List =================================== tp://forums.matronics.com =================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Thank you, sir. _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal George Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:17 PM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society To paraphrase one whom I admire (even if it is only a line from a movie): I haven't sufficient flow of speech to answer adequately. I'll try anyway. Nico's musings on the steady erosion of the liberty guaranteed by our Constitution, paid for with the blood of patriots, are directly related to building and flying Rockets (and RVs, and Commanders, and even lowly Cherokees) and everything else we do or enjoy as citizens of the greatest country God ever gave Man. Being a naturalized citizen, Nico has perspective and insight that many of us mere natives lack. We would do well to learn from him. Neal E. George, Capt, USAF Navarre, FL RV-7 N8ZG CherokeeJet N9586J A&P/IA ========= From: On Behalf Of im7shannon(at)aol.com Why does this need to be posted in a discussion group about building and flying Rockets? I wrote about a riskless society. Check it out: TruthByRushDelivery <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/11/riskless-society.html> Thanks Nico ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Subject: Speaking of learning from blogs ...
Date: Nov 19, 2009
I'm a naturalized citizen building a HRII in San Francisco :D Can anyone recommend a good build log on the Rocket ? I confess my flying RV-9 owes so much to the blogger/builders that went before me. Did you all build your own wing spars ? I heard Phlogiston aren't willing any more ... Regards, Gerry. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Noel Rodman <ctlimited(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society
Date: Nov 20, 2009
Nico=2CI enjoyed your perspective.Please continue to post all your thoughts to this list.Thanks=2CNoel RodmanSan Luis Obispo=2C CaliforniaN300HR From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com Subject: RE: Rocket-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society Date: Thu=2C 19 Nov 2009 21:38:00 -0800 Thank you=2C sir. From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal George Sent: Thursday=2C November 19=2C 2009 7:17 PM rocket-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Rocket-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society To paraphrase one whom I admire (even if it is only a line from a movie): I haven=92t sufficient flow of speech to answer adequately. I=92ll try anyway. Nico=92s musings on the steady erosion of the liberty guaranteed by our Constitution =2C paid for with the blood of patriots=2C are directly related to building and flying Rockets (and RVs=2C and Commanders=2C and even lowly Cherokees) and everyth ing else we do or enjoy as citizens of the greatest country God ever gave Man. Being a naturalized citizen=2C Nico has perspective and insight that many of us m ere natives lack. We would do well to learn from him. Neal E. George=2C Capt=2C USAF Navarre=2C FL RV-7 N8ZG CherokeeJet N9586J A&P/IA ========= From: On Behalf Of im7shannon(at)aol.com Why does this need to be posted in a discussion group about building and flying Rockets? I wrote about a riskless society. Check it out: TruthByRushDelivery Thanks Nico href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref ="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: I wanted simpler=2C now it's simpler. I'm a rock star. http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=P ID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:112009 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just A Few Days Left; Still Trailing Last Year...
Dear Listers, There are just a few more days left of this year's List Fund Raiser! Response has been very good, but still well behind last year. If you've been waiting until the last minute to make your contribution and maybe even pick up a great gift, now might be good time to show your support! Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions during this Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution today! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2009
From: Bowen Miles <cessna170bdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Speaking of learning from blogs ...
Gerry, - I haven't run across an actual build log for a rocket, but www.vincesrocket .com has lots of good info on building techniques. Also, you can go to http ://vansairforce.net/links.htm-and click on Builder Sites for a list of RV builder sites in general. Also, there are some RV-4 sites at http://www.my kitlog.com-that might be helpful. - I used Van's RV-4-wing kit with-pre-drilled-spars, just deleted any p redrilled skins, and any parts supplied by Harmon, like tank backs and skin s. The predrilled RV-4 spars-don't match HRII plans dimensions exactly, b ut John Harmon said just locate ribs to the pre-drilled holes closest to lo catons specified in the plans. Driving the -6 rivets wasn't that big a deal . I did both spars solo in a day using the Avery C-frame tool and a 3lb han mer. - Hope this helps.- Miles --- On Thu, 11/19/09, Gerry Filby wrote: From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com> Subject: Rocket-List: Speaking of learning from blogs ... Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 9:59 PM I'm a naturalized citizen building a HRII in San Francisco :D - Can anyone recommend a good build log on the Rocket ?- I confess my flyin g RV-9 owes so much to the blogger/builders that went before me. - Did you all build your own wing spars ?- I heard Phlogiston aren't willin g any more ... - Regards, Gerry. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published
in December! Dear Listers, The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 USA (Please include your email address on the check!) I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: [TruthByRushDelivery] Ocean Ditching
Date: Nov 23, 2009
Enjoy. Thanks, Nico TruthByRushDelivery <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/11/ocean-ditching.html> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Branden Hartman <hondaguy46041(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: [TruthByRushDelivery] Ocean Ditching
Date: Nov 23, 2009
Please remove me from the list. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution...
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums. The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit card, Paypal, or a personal check: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support the Lists! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2009
Subject: High Engine Temps
From: Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com>
Wanted to let everyone know that on my Rocket which had been having high CHT's we made one more change that dramatically cooled the engine. I had the compression increased on my engine to 9:1. Someone on the list had mentioned that I should look at my timing and possibly changing it. When we looked at the timing it was set at 25 degrees, we moved it to 20 degrees and it really dropped the CHT's down. Now I am running in the high 300's for the first time that I can recall. Thanks for all the help. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2009
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: High Engine Temps
Awesome Ernest! Electronic ignition helps immensely as well. Happy Thanksgiving! Smokey Sent from my iPhone On Nov 24, 2009, at 9:17 AM, Ernest Hale wrote: Wanted to let everyone know that on my Rocket which had been having high CHT's we made one more change that dramatically cooled the engine. I had the compression increased on my engine to 9:1. Someone on the list had mentioned that I should look at my timing and possibly changing it. When we looked at the timing it was set at 25 degrees, we moved it to 20 degrees and it really dropped the CHT's down. Now I am running in the high 300's for the first time that I can recall. Thanks for all the help. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What Are You Thankful For...?
Dear Listers, Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous feasts of plenty and giving thanks for many blessings that have been bestowed upon us. Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists. One of my favorite comments is when someone writes to me and says something like, "Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!". That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists. Its always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning to check my List email!! Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for their continued operation and upgrade? The List Contribution Site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance for your kind consideration, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: No "Black Friday" For List Fund Raiser...
Even though the number of List subscriptions and List posts are up significantly this year compared to last year, support during this year's List Fund Raiser has been woefully lagging from last year. There are only a couple more days left in November and the end of the Fund Raiser is quickly approaching. I have always preferred a non-commercial List experience as many, many members have also expressed that they do as well. However, if the yearly fund raiser cannot generate sufficient funds to keep the bills paid on the List service expenses, I will have to look into some sort of advertising. Please don't let that happen! Your personal contribution of $20 or $30 goes a long ways to keeping the operation a float. The lunch combo at Carl's Jr costs nearly $10 these days. Isn't the List worth at least as much as a couple of burgers? Please make sure your name is on this year's List of Contributors published in December. The Contribution site is secure, quick, and easy: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just Two More Days Left; Fund Raiser Behind By 12%...
Dear Listers, This year's List Fund Raiser is still trailing last year by a 12% margin. If you like the ad-free environment that is the Matronics Email List and Forum experience, please make a quick Contribution to keep it that way! http://www.matronics.com/contribution I've been getting a ton of really nice comments from Contributors regarding the Lists. Please read over some of them below and see if they don't resonate with you as well. Thank you in advance for your generous contribution to support these Lists! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator --------------------------- Member Feedback ---------------------------- ur web site is a real institution of the whole Experimental Aircraft subculture. John G Thanks Matt for the lists. A lot of good info. Great bunch of list members. Great videos and no SPAM. Paul C It has been a valuable tool. Troy M ..appreciate the site as much as ever. Larry M By using various forums I've learned a ton, received great advice, made friends, and saved money! Craig W Since I've finished [my project], I've not had much to do as far as fabrication of electrical systems. However, selectively reading various topics is still very valuable and Bob's insights and new how to's make me a continuous subscriber. Larry F Matronics user groups are the best tool I have for learning to build my RV-10! Philip W There is always useful knowledge to be found on this list, and I suspect that it has kept quite a few people out of trouble over the years it has been in operation. Good entertainment, too. Graham H Great web site. I wish I'd known about it while building. Bob S I'm happy to provide some support to this list. It is very helpful. Vaughn T Good service to sport aviation!! Roger B Awesome Service you provide for us! Bill R My [project] is almost finished! However, it wouldn't be close without the [this] group. Douwe B Great list. Robert S I'm not a builder yet but learning lots from the list. Peter M Some nonsense, some humor, but mostly good information. Tony C Thanks for creating and keeping the Lists. They are entertaining and always informative! John M Thanks for this valuable resource to our community. Barry H The list is IMHO the greatest resource on the net. John B Thanks again for providing another year of your useful List service. Jerry B Great site indeed, every time I get a message I usually learn something. Peter B You are making a huge contribution to the builder fraternity and in no small way enhancing sport aviation safety. Richard G The List is the SINGLE, MOST IMPORTANT resource I have in building my RV10. I would be lost without out it. And I have made a bunch of new friends as well! Les K The lists are one of the things I really enjoy, so keep up the good work. Freddie H Every year -- the best value for my time and money! Owen B This list is a major contribution to safe building! Donald K Really enjoy the daily boost it gives me. Walter S In the last 18 months I have been privileged to listen & ask. I have learnt at the feet of the masters... Stewart G You set the standard on how Internet forums should be run and managed. Larry W The Universe is a better place because of you. Eric J [The List] helped me get flying, fly off my test hours and make my systems better. I continue to get and give information through these lists. Ralph C ..another GREAT year of advice, answers, and inspiration courtesy of the Lists and your hard work!!!! Rob B ..the best forum on the Internet! Robert B I can't tell you how grateful I am for your list and your subscribers to keep me up to date and holding the dream. Ashley M This page makes it easy to contribute. Jeffrey P Thank you for your expertise in creating & running the much useful lists! Anthony P Thanks for providing our advertising free on line community. George R Thanks for maintaining the equipment and software to provide this valuable source of information to us individuals. Your effort is appreciated by many more people than you realize. Ross H Thanks for a great site. Although the project is complete and flying I still get a wealth of information from all the messages. Marcus C Only learned about you six months ago...my RV-7A is just finished, but the list has been helpful. Wish I had discovered you sooner. Jack B This is an invaluable communications media for us common minded folks to exchange technical and other information. George H ..great service that you provide. David W ..still appreciate your list. Alain L [The] Lists are an invaluable resource. I know that it has helped me enormously in my project. William B ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!
Dear Listers, Its November 30th and that means at least two things. For better or worse, its my 46th birthday! But it also means that its that last official day of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been jones'n over one of the really nice gifts that are available this year with a qualifying Contribution, then now is the time to jump on one!! If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting it off for some reason, NOW is the time! I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want to be known as a person that supported the Lists! I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so far this year in support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation a float and I don't ever forget it. Hopefully everyone feels the same. The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making your Contribution right now: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you to all in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: FW: F16 vs. C-130
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Too precious. F16 vs. C-130 A C-130 was lumbering along when a cocky F-16 flashed by. The jet jockey decided to show off. The fighter jock told the C-130 pilot, 'watch this!' and promptly went into a barrel roll followed by a steep climb. He then finished with a sonic boom as he broke the sound barrier. The F-16 pilot asked the C-130 pilot what he thought of that? The C-130 pilot said, 'That was impressive, but watch this!' The C-130 droned along for about 5 minutes and then the C-130 pilot came back on and said: 'What did you think of that?' Puzzled, the F-16 pilot asked, 'What the heck did you do?' The C-130 pilot chuckled. 'I stood up, stretched my legs, walked to the back, took a leak, then got a cup of coffee and a cinnamon roll.' When you are young & foolish - speed & flash may seem a good thing !!! When you get older & smarter - comfort & dull is not such a bad thing!!! Us older folks understand this one. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2009
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: F-16
John, --Having been blessed to fly the F-16 for 20 years, I fully agree! :) Rob RayHR2 760RF --- On Thu, 12/3/09, John Harmon wrote: From: John Harmon <hr2pilot(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/02/09 Date: Thursday, December 3, 2009, 8:04 PM Need guns and missels on the Rocket Sent from my iPhone On Dec 3, 2009, at 4:51 PM, "nico css" wrote: =0A=0AThat was my immediate =0Athought, too. The donuts can wait. =0A- =0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-rock et-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of =0ASpeedy11(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 3:44 =0APM Subject: Rocket-List: Re: =0ARocket-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/02/09 =0A=0A=0AMy guess is you've never flown the F-16.=0AStan Sutterfield=0ADo n ot archive=0AToo precious. F16 =0A vs. C-130 A C-130 was lumbering along when a cocky F-16 flashed =0A by. The jet jockey decided to show off. The fighter jock told =0A the C-130 pilot, 'watch this!' and promptly went into a barrel roll =0A followed by a steep climb. He then finished with a sonic boom as he broke =0A the sound barrier. The F-16 pilot asked the C-130 pilot what he thought of =0A that? The C-130 pilot said, 'That was impressive, but watch =0A this!' The C-130 droned along for about 5 minutes and then the C-130 =0A pilot ca me back on and said: 'What did you think of that?' Puzzled, =0A the F-16 pilot asked, 'What the heck did you do?' The C-130 pilot =0A chuckled. 'I stood up, stretched my legs, walked to th e back, took a =0A leak,- then got a cup of coffee and a cinnamon roll.' When you =0A are young & foolish --- speed & flash may seem a good thi ng =0A !!! When you get older & smarter - comfort & dull is not such a =0A bad thing! !! Us older folks understand this =0Aone. =0A=0A-=0A=0Ahref="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com=0A href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com=0Ahref="http: //www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com=0Ahref="http://www.matroni cs.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronic ===========0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: 2009 List of Contributors
Dear Listers, The 2009 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of weeks ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. Its the people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums possible. Their generous contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and running. You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I also want to thank Bob, Jon, Andy, and John for their generous support through the supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some great products and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites: Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - www.aeroelectric.com Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - www.homebuilthelp.com Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - www.buildersbooks.com John Caldwell - HowToCrimp - www.howtocrimp.com And finally, I'm proud to present The 2009 Fund Raiser List of Contributors: http://www.matronics.com/loc/2009.html Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 2009
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Happy 2010!
Happy New Year Rocketeers! Smokey HR2 Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?(MWH)
Date: Jan 06, 2010
What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird? Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine. As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured of hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute. Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high" speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order. Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen. So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations, someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?" This was a first. After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never shared before, and relayed the following. I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater, Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield. Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat, and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as far as I could see in the haze. We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and partial gray overcast. Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges. As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank. Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass. Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes. After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen, especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low approach. As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass." Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. What did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two." We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me again!" And I never did. A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71 fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their eyebrows. Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands, he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred. Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane." Impressive indeed. Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories. It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2010
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Guys,More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of t his little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at fore cast winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and rea lly get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gall on aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly- Con built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degr ees LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RP M I consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. B eing a Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested dir ect to home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 1 5,500 increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally b egan my descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on boa rd, landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left.---My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly shows wh at John's design is capable of.- BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house, look ing forward to several thousand more! Rob "Smokey" RayHR2 --- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote: From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird? (MWH) Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird? Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine. As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured o f hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute. Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high" speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order. Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen. So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations, someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?" This was a first. After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never shared before, and relayed the following. I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater, Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commande r there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. N o problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield. Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat, and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small towe r and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and tha t I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as far as I could see in the haze. We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hope s of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cade t commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind an d partial gray overcast. Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flyin g career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges. As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At thi s point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank. Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass. Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall withou t incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes. After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen, especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that coul d only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low approach. As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass." Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots.- Wha t did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two. " We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me again!" And I never did. A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71 fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kid s falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their eyebrows. Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands, he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred. Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane." Impressive indeed. Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories. It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too. le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Date: Jan 07, 2010
Nice!! Jim Stone Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Ray To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:10 PM Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Guys, More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of this little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at forecast winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and really get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-Con built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degrees LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being a Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct to home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 15,500 increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally began my descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board, landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left. My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly shows what John's design is capable of. BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house, looking forward to several thousand more! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 --- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote: From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?(MWH) To: "'nico'" Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird? Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine. As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured of hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute. Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high" speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order. Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen. So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations, someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?" This was a first. After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never shared before, and relayed the following. I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater, Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield. Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat, and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as far as I could see in the haze. We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and partial gray overcast. Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges. As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank. Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass. Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes. After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen, especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low approach. As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass." Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. What did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two." We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me again!" And I never did. A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71 fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their eyebrows. Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands, he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred. Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane." Impressive indeed. Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories. It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too. nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List _sp; --> h - List Contribution Web Site; &nb; http:======================= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2010
Subject: Re: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
From: Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com>
Great report, Smokey. An amazing airplane, indeed! Lee... P.S. Festus and his gang spent the holidays with us. Spun him around the field in my F1, had a great time! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Date: Jan 08, 2010
From: "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" <andrew(at)nzactive.com>
Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft, but nothing, NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and some of you guys seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I true out at max cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly 200 knots, and I've heard some people true out at 205, even 210? Is that true, anyone? And as you say the speed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to mention, the pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL capabilities too. Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best economy comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal friction of the engine. I wonder if you would have got even better figures at, say, 22" MP and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit is, for your engine...? I believe that is the main "trick" that Lindbergh taught the aviators of the US Navy & Marine Corps in the Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent over to teach them to get maximum range and endurance from their steeds. not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your basic point - that rockets rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :) Andrew ________________________________ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Guys, More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of this little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at forecast winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and really get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-Con built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degrees LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being a Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct to home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 15,500 increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally began my descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board, landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left. My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly shows what John's design is capable of. BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house, looking forward to several thousand more! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 --- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote: From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?(MWH) To: "'nico'" Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird? Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine. As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured of hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute. Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high" speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order. Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen. So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations, someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?" This was a first. After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never shared before, and relayed the following. I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater, Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield. Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat, and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as far as I could see in the haze. We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and partial gray overcast. Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges. As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank. Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass. Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes. After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen, especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low approach. As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass." Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. What did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two." We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me again!" And I never did. A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71 fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their eyebrows. Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands, he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred. Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane." Impressive indeed. Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories. It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too. nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List _sp; --> h - List Contribution Web Site; &nb; <http://forums.matronics.com> http:======================= <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Date: Jan 07, 2010
>From what I know, the better fuel economy at lower RPM's is due to less air being pumped per minute. Theoretically, an engine working at 1,000 rpm as apposed to 3,000 rpm, just as an example, pumps 1/3rd of the air, which has a greater impact on the fuel burn even at higher mixture settings due to higher MP's. The net gain is positive at lower RPM's. There would be, I assume, an envelope in which that is true, in theory. Just my 2c worth. Nico _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ - Andrew Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:01 PM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft, but nothing, NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and some of you guys seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I true out at max cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly 200 knots, and I've heard some people true out at 205, even 210? Is that true, anyone? And as you say the speed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to mention, the pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL capabilities too. Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best economy comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal friction of the engine. I wonder if you would have got even better figures at, say, 22" MP and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit is, for your engine...? I believe that is the main "trick" that Lindbergh taught the aviators of the US Navy & Marine Corps in the Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent over to teach them to get maximum range and endurance from their steeds. not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your basic point - that rockets rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :) Andrew _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Guys, More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of this little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at forecast winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and really get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-Con built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degrees LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being a Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct to home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 15,500 increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally began my descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board, landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left. My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly shows what John's design is capable of. BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house, looking forward to several thousand more! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 --- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote: From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?(MWH) Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird? Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine. As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured of hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute. Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high" speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order. Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen. So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations, someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?" This was a first. After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never shared before, and relayed the following. I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater, Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield. Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat, and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as far as I could see in the haze. We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and partial gray overcast. Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges. As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank. Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass. Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes. After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen, especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low approach. As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass." Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. What did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two." We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me again!" And I never did. A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71 fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their eyebrows. Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands, he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred. Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane." Impressive indeed. Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories. It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too. nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List _sp; --> h <http://forums.matronics.com> - List Contribution Web Site; &nb; http:======================= <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tom Martin <fairlea(at)amtelecom.net>
Subject: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Date: Jan 08, 2010
Andrew I have been flying rockets for twelve years now and have been fortunate to have flown many different versions. All of them fly beautifully and I can honestly say that if I had to go back to other types of aircraft I probably would not fly very much. The last three years I have participated in a few events held by the Sport Aircraft Racing League, SARL, HYPERLINK "http://sportairrace.org/index.html"http://sportairrace.org/index.html . It has been a real learning experience and with constant experimentation I have increased the top speed of my aircraft considerably. The average top speed, full power, in three races this year was 220.2 knots. This was full throttle, 2650rpms. In the same three races Wayne Hadath with a stock engine, and a clean light stock F1 had a 212 knot average. The fastest RV8 is currently owned by John Huft, and he is right around the 200 knot range with his beautiful aircraft. I would encourage other rocket owners to participate in these events, experiment with your aircraft and find some different ways to get these amazing aircraft even faster. With gains in top speed, comes gains in efficiency which you will use on each and every flight. Tom Martin _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ - Andrew Sent: January 8, 2010 1:01 AM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft, but nothing, NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and some of you guys seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I true out at max cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly 200 knots, and I've heard some people true out at 205, even 210? Is that true, anyone? And as you say the speed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to mention, the pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL capabilities too. Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best economy comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal friction of the engine. I wonder if you would have got even better figures at, say, 22" MP and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit is, for your engine...? I believe that is the main "trick" that Lindbergh taught the aviators of the US Navy & Marine Corps in the Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent over to teach them to get maximum range and endurance from their steeds. not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your basic point - that rockets rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :) Andrew _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Guys, More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of this little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at forecast winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and really get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-Con built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degrees LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being a Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct to home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 15,500 increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally began my descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board, landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left. My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly shows what John's design is capable of. BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house, looking forward to several thousand more! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 --- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote: From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?(MWH) Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird? Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine. As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured of hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute. Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high" speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order. Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen. So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations, someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?" This was a first. After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never shared before, and relayed the following. I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater, Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield. Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat, and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as far as I could see in the haze. We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and partial gray overcast. Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges. As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank. Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass. Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes. After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen, especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low approach. As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass." Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. What did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two." We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me again!" And I never did. A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71 fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their eyebrows. Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands, he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred. Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane." Impressive indeed. Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories. It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too. nbsp; --> HYPERLINK "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List" \nhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List _sp; --> HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com" \nh - List Contribution Web Site; &nb; HYPERLINK "http://www.matronics.com/contribution" \nhttp:======================= href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Rocket-List "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. 6:16 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2010
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
G'day Andy, I too am a big fan of Charles Lindberg and will have to test his P-38 leaning technique sometime. When I knock around here locally I set 20/20 below 5000 ft msl and nomalky show 6 gph at 125 knots, counting the big Hartzell blades as they pass by:) Even more amazing is comparing my RV4 fuel logs from the past on identical trips with the HR2, equal or less at 30 knots faster! Smokey Sent from my iPhone On Jan 8, 2010, at 1:00 AM, "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" wrote: Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft, but nothing, NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and some of you guys seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I true out at max cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly 200 knots, and I've heard some people true out at 205, even 210? Is that true, anyone? And as you say the speed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to mention, the pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL capabilities too. Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best economy comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal friction of the engine. I wonder if you would have got even better figures at, say, 22" MP and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit is, for your engine...? I believe that is the main "trick" that Lindbergh taught the aviators of the US Navy & Marine Corps in the Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent over to teach them to get maximum range and endurance from their steeds. not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your basic point - that rockets rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :) Andrew From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Guys, More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of this little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at forecast winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and really get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-Con built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degrees LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being a Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct to home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 15,500 increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally began my descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board, landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left. My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly shows what John's design is capable of. BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house, looking forward to several thousand more! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 --- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote: From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?(MWH) Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird? Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine. As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured of hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute. Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high" speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order. Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen. So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations, someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?" This was a first. After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never shared before, and relayed the following. I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater, Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield. Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat, and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as far as I could see in the haze. We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and partial gray overcast. Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges. As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank. Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass. Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes. After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen, especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low approach. As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass." Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. What did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two." We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me again!" And I never did. A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71 fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their eyebrows. Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands, he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred. Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane." Impressive indeed. Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories. It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too. nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List _sp; --> h - List Contribution Web Site; &nb; http:======================= href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2010
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Awesome! Sent from my iPhone On Jan 7, 2010, at 6:11 PM, Lee Logan wrote: Great report, Smokey. An amazing airplane, indeed! Lee... P.S. Festus and his gang spent the holidays with us. Spun him around the field in my F1, had a great time! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2010
From: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja(at)starpower.net>
Subject: Re: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
I have found that the low RPM cruise choice does exactly what you have described, primarily due to lower internal engine friction and somewhat higher prop efficiency due to greater prop blade efficiency. Possibly, the lower piston speed during the power stroke may provide more complete combustion, particularly with slightly advanced ignition timing. I regularly fly cruise at 1900 RPM and anything up to 22 or 23 inches MAP depending on altitude and temperature with my LYC O-360 and Hartzell constant speed prop. And with lean of peak operation I get up to 29-30 miles per gallon. In some cases, this allows non-stop flights that take less flight time than the total elapsed time required by going faster and having to make an enroute fuel stop. This is a winner on fuel costs, time, and extended TBO possibilities! Jim McCulley =============================================================================== ACTIVE NZ - Andrew wrote: ((SNIP)) > Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best > economy comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal > friction of the engine. I wonder if you would have got even better > figures at, say, 22" MP and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit > is, for your engine...? I believe that is the main "trick" that > Lindbergh taught the aviators of the US Navy & Marine Corps in the > Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent over to teach them to get > maximum range and endurance from their steeds. ((SNIP)) ================================================================================= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Date: Jan 09, 2010
From: "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" <andrew(at)nzactive.com>
Nice info, y'all. Unfortunately, being in NZ, I can't participate in these sorts of things. Only two Rockets flying in NZ, that I know of - and another being built. I'd love to get another 10 knots or so out of my Rocket. I've noticed that she flies with a LOT of down elevator (ie, forward stick) in the cruise, and have wondered about resetting the incidence of the tail plane. She also needs a little left aileron to fly straight, and this means both ailerons are always *slightly* defected. Are these sorts of things likely to rob serious speed? (As in, I don't care about 1-2 knots, but 10 or so, and I'd do something about it. Would also be interested in the perspective of knowledgeable builder pilots - I've heard of at least one Rocket fatality where the tail came apart, and I'm told Mr Vans disapproves of our aircraft cos they're being pushed beyond design limits. Is there anything in this? As in, would it be worth dismantaling the horizontal and vertical stabs, and rebuilding with thicker gauge steel? I know it's a big job. Any 'easy' ideas for speeding up Rockets? I've got 280 hp, and she's reasonably light, but does have some avionics of course. Not too many aerials etc. Feel free to contact off list - andrew at activenewzealand dot com. Cheers Andrew -----Original Message----- From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Tom Martin Sent: Sat 1/9/2010 5:30 AM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Andrew I have been flying rockets for twelve years now and have been fortunate to have flown many different versions. All of them fly beautifully and I can honestly say that if I had to go back to other types of aircraft I probably would not fly very much. The last three years I have participated in a few events held by the Sport Aircraft Racing League, SARL, HYPERLINK "http://sportairrace.org/index.html"http://sportairrace.org/index.html . It has been a real learning experience and with constant experimentation I have increased the top speed of my aircraft considerably. The average top speed, full power, in three races this year was 220.2 knots. This was full throttle, 2650rpms. In the same three races Wayne Hadath with a stock engine, and a clean light stock F1 had a 212 knot average. The fastest RV8 is currently owned by John Huft, and he is right around the 200 knot range with his beautiful aircraft. I would encourage other rocket owners to participate in these events, experiment with your aircraft and find some different ways to get these amazing aircraft even faster. With gains in top speed, comes gains in efficiency which you will use on each and every flight. Tom Martin _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ - Andrew Sent: January 8, 2010 1:01 AM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft, but nothing, NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and some of you guys seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I true out at max cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly 200 knots, and I've heard some people true out at 205, even 210? Is that true, anyone? And as you say the speed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to mention, the pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL capabilities too. Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best economy comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal friction of the engine. I wonder if you would have got even better figures at, say, 22" MP and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit is, for your engine...? I believe that is the main "trick" that Lindbergh taught the aviators of the US Navy & Marine Corps in the Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent over to teach them to get maximum range and endurance from their steeds. not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your basic point - that rockets rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :) Andrew _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Guys, More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of this little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at forecast winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and really get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-Con built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degrees LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being a Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct to home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 15,500 increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally began my descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board, landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left. My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly shows what John's design is capable of. BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house, looking forward to several thousand more! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 --- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote: From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?(MWH) Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird? Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine. As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured of hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute. Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high" speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order. Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen. So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations, someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?" This was a first. After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never shared before, and relayed the following. I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater, Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield. Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat, and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as far as I could see in the haze. We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and partial gray overcast. Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges. As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank. Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass. Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes. After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen, especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low approach. As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass." Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. What did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two." We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me again!" And I never did. A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71 fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their eyebrows. Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands, he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred. Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane." Impressive indeed. Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories. It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too. nbsp; --> HYPERLINK "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List" \nhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List _sp; --> HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com" \nh - List Contribution Web Site; &nb; HYPERLINK "http://www.matronics.com/contribution" \nhttp:====================== = href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron href "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"http://www.matronics.com/ Nav igator?Rocket-List "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion Checked by AVG. 6:16 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2010
Subject: Re: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
From: Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com>
Hey Andrew, I didn=B9t build my Rocket and am not inclined in that way so have not input to your questions. I did want to say that I have the same issues with my Rocket, I have pretty much full down elevator in cruise, and my plane is left wing heavy, I have been trying to figure out a way to get the wing issue worked out, nothing good yet. Haven=B9t gone into the tail issue but have wondered how much speed I am loosing, I am sure it is substantial. Looking forward to the answers. Ernest N540HB On 1/9/10 3:27 AM, "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" wrote: > Nice info, y'all. > > Unfortunately, being in NZ, I can't participate in these sorts of things. Only > two Rockets flying in NZ, that I know of - and another being built. > > I'd love to get another 10 knots or so out of my Rocket. I've noticed tha t she > flies with a LOT of down elevator (ie, forward stick) in the cruise, and have > wondered about resetting the incidence of the tail plane. She also needs a > little left aileron to fly straight, and this means both ailerons are alw ays > *slightly* defected. Are these sorts of things likely to rob serious spee d? > (As in, I don't care about 1-2 knots, but 10 or so, and I'd do something about > it. > > Would also be interested in the perspective of knowledgeable builder pilo ts - > I've heard of at least one Rocket fatality where the tail came apart, and I'm > told Mr Vans disapproves of our aircraft cos they're being pushed beyond > design limits. Is there anything in this? As in, would it be worth > dismantaling the horizontal and vertical stabs, and rebuilding with thick er > gauge steel? I know it's a big job. > > Any 'easy' ideas for speeding up Rockets? I've got 280 hp, and she's > reasonably light, but does have some avionics of course. Not too many aer ials > etc. Feel free to contact off list - andrew at activenewzealand dot com. > > Cheers > > Andrew > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Tom Martin > Sent: Sat 1/9/2010 5:30 AM > To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! > > Andrew > > I have been flying rockets for twelve years now and have been > fortunate to have flown many different versions. All of them fly > beautifully and I can honestly say that if I had to go back to other type s > of aircraft I probably would not fly very much. The last three years I h ave > participated in a few events held by the Sport Aircraft Racing League, SA RL, > HYPERLINK > "http://sportairrace.org/index.html"http://sportairrace.org/index.html . It > has been a real learning experience and with constant experimentation I h ave > increased the top speed of my aircraft considerably. The average top spe ed, > full power, in three races this year was 220.2 knots. This was full > throttle, 2650rpms. > > In the same three races Wayne Hadath with a stock engine, and a clean lig ht > stock F1 had a 212 knot average. The fastest RV8 is currently owned by J ohn > Huft, and he is right around the 200 knot range with his beautiful aircra ft. > > I would encourage other rocket owners to participate in these events, > experiment with your aircraft and find some different ways to get these > amazing aircraft even faster. With gains in top speed, comes gains in > efficiency which you will use on each and every flight. > > > > Tom Martin > > > > _____ > > From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ - > Andrew > Sent: January 8, 2010 1:01 AM > To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! > > > > Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft, bu t > nothing, NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and some o f > you guys seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I true out at max > cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly 200 knots, a nd > I've heard some people true out at 205, even 210? Is that true, anyone? > > > > And as you say the speed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to menti on, > the pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL capabilities too. > > > > Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best econo my > comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal friction of t he > engine. I wonder if you would have got even better figures at, say, 22" M P > and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit is, for your engine...? I > believe that is the main "trick" that Lindbergh taught the aviators of th e > US Navy & Marine Corps in the Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sen t > over to teach them to get maximum range and endurance from their steeds. > > > > not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your basic point - that > rockets rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :) > > > > Andrew > > > > _____ > > From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray > Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM > To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! > > > Guys, > > More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of this > little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at foreca st > winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and really > get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon > aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-C on > built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degree s > LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I > consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Bei ng > a Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct to > home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 15,500 > increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally began my > descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board, > landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left. > > My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize > tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly > shows what John's design is capable of. > > > > BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house, > looking forward to several thousand more! > > > > Rob "Smokey" Ray > > HR2 > > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote: > > > From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> > Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the > Blackbird?(MWH) > To: "'nico'" > Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM > > > What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird? > > Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine. > > As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question > I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured of > hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an > interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but ther e > really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a littl e > more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute. > > Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never want ed > to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of > temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high " > speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya wh en > Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order. > > Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to > Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen. > > So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations , > someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?" > > This was a first. > > After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never > shared before, and relayed the following. > > I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seate r, > Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron > Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scoot ed > across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the > English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet comman der > there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating > moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No > problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the > North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield. > > Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back sea t, > and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, w e > found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most > former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small to wer > and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and t hat > I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees a s > far as I could see in the haze. > > We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we > were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Wal t > said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my > windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in ho pes > of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the ca det > commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to > get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and > partial gray overcast. > > Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us > but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to > peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, t he > awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my fly ing > career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges. > > As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopp ed > and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At t his > point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank. > > Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of > flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full vi ew > of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that > morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face a s > the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of t he > infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described a s > some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass. > > Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall with out > incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes. > > After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was > reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the > commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever see n, > especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that co uld > only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats > were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full > afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. > > Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that > morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our lo w > approach. > As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight > suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass." > > Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. Wha t > did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-tw o." > > We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me > again!" > > And I never did. > > A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's > club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71 > fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included k ids > falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their > eyebrows. > > Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hand s, > he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred. > Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low > approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane." > > Impressive indeed. > > Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that d ay > that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories. > It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest je t > can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to ke ep > that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too. > nbsp; --> HYPERLINK "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List" > \nhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List > _sp; --> HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com" \nh - List > Contribution Web Site; &nb; HYPERLINK > "http://www.matronics.com/contribution" \nhttp:======================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhr ef > "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > > "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"http://www.matronics.com/ Nav > igator?Rocket-List > "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion > > > Checked by AVG. > 6:16 AM > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Date: Jan 09, 2010
Tom and others, Have you ever noticed your Rocket yaws when you fly into the clouds. I got significant vertigo the first few times I went IMC and then figured out why. I noticed as I flew into the clouds my inner ear sensed a 30 deg left bank but the aircraft remained wings level. I noticed the ball was out to the left and when I centered it, my vertigo went away. Question, what the heck is causing the ball to slide left when flying into the clouds? Btw, I have a plastic wedge on the left side of the rudder which centers the ball in cruise flight, I suspect airflow over it changes as the air density changes when flying into the clouds. Anyone else experience such a strange phenomenon? Have an explanation? Jim Stone Louisville KY 275 Hours ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Martin To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:07 AM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Andrew I have been flying rockets for twelve years now and have been fortunate to have flown many different versions. All of them fly beautifully and I can honestly say that if I had to go back to other types of aircraft I probably would not fly very much. The last three years I have participated in a few events held by the Sport Aircraft Racing League, SARL, http://sportairrace.org/index.html . It has been a real learning experience and with constant experimentation I have increased the top speed of my aircraft considerably. The average top speed, full power, in three races this year was 220.2 knots. This was full throttle, 2650rpms. In the same three races Wayne Hadath with a stock engine, and a clean light stock F1 had a 212 knot average. The fastest RV8 is currently owned by John Huft, and he is right around the 200 knot range with his beautiful aircraft. I would encourage other rocket owners to participate in these events, experiment with your aircraft and find some different ways to get these amazing aircraft even faster. With gains in top speed, comes gains in efficiency which you will use on each and every flight. Tom Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ - Andrew Sent: January 8, 2010 1:01 AM To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft, but nothing, NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and some of you guys seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I true out at max cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly 200 knots, and I've heard some people true out at 205, even 210? Is that true, anyone? And as you say the speed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to mention, the pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL capabilities too. Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best economy comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal friction of the engine. I wonder if you would have got even better figures at, say, 22" MP and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit is, for your engine...? I believe that is the main "trick" that Lindbergh taught the aviators of the US Navy & Marine Corps in the Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent over to teach them to get maximum range and endurance from their steeds. not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your basic point - that rockets rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :) Andrew ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Guys, More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of this little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at forecast winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and really get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-Con built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degrees LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being a Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct to home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 15,500 increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally began my descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board, landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left. My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly shows what John's design is capable of. BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house, looking forward to several thousand more! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 --- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote: From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?(MWH) To: "'nico'" Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird? Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine. As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured of hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute. Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high" speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order. Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen. So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations, someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?" This was a first. After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never shared before, and relayed the following. I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater, Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield. Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat, and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as far as I could see in the haze. We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and partial gray overcast. Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges. As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank. Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass. Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes. After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen, especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low approach. As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass." Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. What did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two." We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me again!" And I never did. A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71 fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their eyebrows. Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands, he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred. Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane." Impressive indeed. Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories. It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too. nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List _sp; --> h - List Contribution Web Site; &nb; http:======================= href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="h ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-Listhttp://www.matronics.com/co ntribution Checked by AVG. Checked by AVG. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
Date: Jan 10, 2010
Subject: speed issues
Full down elevator at cruise? I hope you mean down trim... but then what happens with a pax? More info needed! If what you say is true, then there are other issues than speed to be worried about first. Regarding a well known accident, the tail came off of a Rocket due to a MAJOR builder error that absolutely would have been caught had the builder had nearly any reasonably competent RV or Rocket builder do a pre-inspection inspection, i.e. an inspection before the feds arrived and definitely before anyone flew it. It really SUCKS that this happened so needlessly. For goodness sakes guys, no matter how much of a stud you think you are, have at least one, and preferably two sets of competent, independent eyes look over your work before you fly a new bird. For example, we've got a local guy who has flown since WWII and has been an engineer all his life. He's as sharp as anyone I know, but he's had several (at least five) off airport excursions/incidents/accidents in his homebuilt because he won't take advantage of the EAA tech counselors or flight advisors. (The saying "You can always tell a german, but you can't tell him much" applies here!) The gentleman in question is without a doubt the luckiest man I know, but he really makes it tough on the rest of us out here. He is also the most stubborn, hard headed person I know. He also totaled his C-170 and then fixed it literally with duct tape, bailing wire, and a sledge hammer. They're out there and walk among us. Amazing. Back to the issues at hand. built right, there aren't any issues with the tails coming off the Rockets. Vince www.flyboyaccessories.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: speed issues
Date: Jan 10, 2010
I was worried about the full down elevator and the yaw in rain stories. I guess things have to be checked on those airframes before they defy gravity again. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frazier, Vincent A Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:47 PM Subject: Rocket-List: speed issues --> Full down elevator at cruise? I hope you mean down trim... but then what happens with a pax? More info needed! If what you say is true, then there are other issues than speed to be worried about first. Regarding a well known accident, the tail came off of a Rocket due to a MAJOR builder error that absolutely would have been caught had the builder had nearly any reasonably competent RV or Rocket builder do a pre-inspection inspection, i.e. an inspection before the feds arrived and definitely before anyone flew it. It really SUCKS that this happened so needlessly. For goodness sakes guys, no matter how much of a stud you think you are, have at least one, and preferably two sets of competent, independent eyes look over your work before you fly a new bird. For example, we've got a local guy who has flown since WWII and has been an engineer all his life. He's as sharp as anyone I know, but he's had several (at least five) off airport excursions/incidents/accidents in his homebuilt because he won't take advantage of the EAA tech counselors or flight advisors. (The saying "You can always tell a german, but you can't tell him much" applies here!) The gentleman in question is without a doubt the luckiest man I know, but he really makes it tough on the rest of us out here. He is also the most stubborn, hard headed person I know. He also totaled his C-170 and then fixed it literally with duct tape, bailing wire, and a sledge hammer. They're out there and walk among us. Amazing. Back to the issues at hand. built right, there aren't any issues with the tails coming off the Rockets. Vince www.flyboyaccessories.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2010
Subject: Re: speed issues
From: Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com>
Down trim is what was meant. Can you give us some idea as to what you are talking about when you say there are other issues besides speed? I didn't build my rocket but had it reviewed by an A&P before I bought it and he signed off on it. Is there anything that needs to be evaluated due to the down trim? On 1/10/10 6:46 PM, "Frazier, Vincent A" wrote: > > Full down elevator at cruise? I hope you mean down trim... but then what > happens with a pax? More info needed! If what you say is true, then there > are other issues than speed to be worried about first. > > Regarding a well known accident, the tail came off of a Rocket due to a MAJOR > builder error that absolutely would have been caught had the builder had > nearly any reasonably competent RV or Rocket builder do a pre-inspection > inspection, i.e. an inspection before the feds arrived and definitely before > anyone flew it. It really SUCKS that this happened so needlessly. > > For goodness sakes guys, no matter how much of a stud you think you are, have > at least one, and preferably two sets of competent, independent eyes look over > your work before you fly a new bird. For example, we've got a local guy who > has flown since WWII and has been an engineer all his life. He's as sharp as > anyone I know, but he's had several (at least five) off airport > excursions/incidents/accidents in his homebuilt because he won't take > advantage of the EAA tech counselors or flight advisors. (The saying "You can > always tell a german, but you can't tell him much" applies here!) The > gentleman in question is without a doubt the luckiest man I know, but he > really makes it tough on the rest of us out here. He is also the most > stubborn, hard headed person I know. > > He also totaled his C-170 and then fixed it literally with duct tape, bailing > wire, and a sledge hammer. They're out there and walk among us. Amazing. > > Back to the issues at hand. built right, there aren't any issues with the > tails coming off the Rockets. > > Vince > www.flyboyaccessories.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
Date: Jan 11, 2010
Subject: speed and trim
SNIP From: Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com> Down trim is what was meant. Can you give us some idea as to what you are talking about when you say there are other issues besides speed? I didn't build my rocket but had it reviewed by an A&P before I bought it and he signed off on it. Is there anything that needs to be evaluated due to the down trim? SNIP Ernest, SNIP ************************************************************************************************************ >From what you've said it would seem that you are using full nose down trim at cruise. If you add a pax in the back, what happens then? Do you have to hold forward pressure on the stick? If so, holy crap, doesn't your arm get tired!? It sounds like you've got one of two possible problems: 1) your trim tab is sized or rigged improperly. Maybe your builder biased the trim for more nose up travel to help with pattern speeds. If so, then maybe you can adjust it back a little bit. 2) or more likely, your HS is rigged improperly There are many ways to check your HS rigging, one way is listed here: http://www.vincesrocket.com/finishing.htm Basically, you can check your rigging with a level and a few simple shims. Level the wing per the text, then go see what the HS incidence is. I'll bet it's off. If you find that the HS incidence is wrong, change it. It shouldn't be that difficult, but get help as needed to make sure you do it right. YMMV. Good luck. Vince ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2010
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: speed issues
Ernest, --To answer your question I took my HR2 out yesterday evening during ou r unseasonably cool FL Swamp weather (34 degrees F) and made some speed run s specifically to look at my horizontal at various speeds. To compare, I kn ow exactly where my RV4 was at different speeds in the 15 years I flew it a nd I changed the incidence based on several RV8R articles and Van's input t o level it at high cruise. My fear at that time was the slow speed STOL cha racteristics would translate into a "float". None of this proved true and m y RV4 actually trimmed and flew much better at high cruise after the change .--I am approaching 1000 Rocket hours now, so I think I'm starting to g et the hang of it too:) --My Rocket was documented in the logs that they set the horizontal bas ed on John's plans and incidence settings which I believe is 2 degrees down incidence. It is a very early HR2 (1994) and has a stock RV4 tail with .02 0 tail feathers, stock HR2 cowling, 285HP Ly-Con IO540, 2 blade Hartzell D twist and One EIectroair Electronic Ignition running Automotive Denso L14U plugs, One Magneto running REM-37BY (hot) plugs, (my standard setup on my l ast two airplanes). I have larger tires (380 X 150 X 5) Van's Pressure reco very pants set high enough to clear 3" stones and a large size Aviation pro ducts dual fork tailwheel.----At 1/2 fuel, a 100 LB passenger 23 sq uared and 2000 MSL yesterday I was indicating 208 mph and showing 171 Knots GS, elevator trim level, elevator very slightly up. At 24 squared speed in creased to 223 MPH indicated, 184 Knots GS. elevator trim 3 degrees down, e levator perfectly level. 25 squared yielded 235 MPH, 195 Knots GS, trim two full clicks down (5 degrees) and still a level elevator. Full throttle showed 29" MP, 2750 RPM, 252 MPH 209 Knots GS, 3 clicks (8 degrees fwd) an d elevator level. The amazing part is I came back to my 1500 foot strip and my FAS was 63 Knots over the trees, touchdown at 58 Knots.-What a great airplane!- Hope this data helps. Rob "Smokey" RayHR2 --- On Sun, 1/10/10, Ernest Hale wrote: From: Ernest Hale <ernest(at)flmitigation.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: speed issues Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 6:46 PM Down trim is what was meant.- Can you give us some idea as to what you ar e talking about when you say there are other issues besides speed?- I didn' t build my rocket but had it reviewed by an A&P before I bought it and he signed off on it.- Is there anything that needs to be evaluated due to th e down trim? On 1/10/10 6:46 PM, "Frazier, Vincent A" wrote: > > > Full down elevator at cruise?- I hope you mean down trim... but then wh at > happens with a pax?- More info needed!- If what you say is true, then there > are other issues than speed to be worried about first. > > Regarding a well known accident, the tail came off of a Rocket due to a M AJOR > builder error that absolutely would have been caught had the builder had > nearly any reasonably competent RV or Rocket builder do a pre-inspection > inspection, i.e. an inspection before the feds arrived and definitely bef ore > anyone flew it.---It really SUCKS that this happened so needlessly. > > For goodness sakes guys, no matter how much of a stud you think you are, have > at least one, and preferably two sets of competent, independent eyes look over > your work before you fly a new bird.- For example, we've got a local gu y who > has flown since WWII and has been an engineer all his life.- He's as sh arp as > anyone I know, but he's had several (at least five) off airport > excursions/incidents/accidents in his homebuilt because he won't take > advantage of the EAA tech counselors or flight advisors.- (The saying " You can > always tell a german, but you can't tell him much" applies here!)- The > gentleman in question is without a doubt the luckiest man I know, but he > really makes it tough on the rest of us out here.- He is also the most > stubborn, hard headed person I know. > > He also totaled his C-170 and then fixed it literally with duct tape, bai ling > wire, and a sledge hammer.- They're out there and walk among us. Amazin g. > > Back to the issues at hand. built right, there aren't any issues with the > tails coming off the Rockets. > > Vince > www.flyboyaccessories.com > > > > le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2010
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
G'day again Andy, --To answer your question, yes, I have LR tanks, a design identical to Hotel Whiskey Aviation's (Safe Air One) tanks that slide through the lighte ning holes in the wing forward of the spar with the largest portion inside the tip, five gallons each for a total capacity of 54 gallons. Mine utilize a check valve which requires no separate valves, settings, pumps or otherw ise to drain, gravity and vent pressure drain them dry every time.--- Maximum range cruise I have tried many settings but -20"/2350 RPM between 8500 and 10500 feet 50 LOP and 33 degrees advance with the GAMI injectors seems to deliver the best speed/economy. This equates to 10.5 GPH at 183 Kn ots TAS. On one occasion searching for a lost child in the swamp I set 20/2 0 leaned to peak and saw 6.5 GPH at 125 knots flying search patterns for ov er five hours and and still had enough fuel left to fly 200NM home at high cruise!- Your mileage may vary:) SmokeyHR2 --- On Sat, 1/9/10, Jim Stone wrote: From: Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 7:57 AM =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0ATom and others,=0AHave y ou ever noticed your Rocket yaws when you fly =0Ainto the clouds.- I got significant vertigo the first few times I went IMC =0Aand then figured out why.- I noticed as I flew into the clouds my inner ear =0Asensed a 30 deg left bank but the aircraft remained wings level.- I noticed =0Athe ball was out to the left and when I centered it, my vertigo went away.- =0AQue stion, what the heck is causing the ball to slide left when flying into the =0Aclouds?- Btw, I have a plastic wedge on the left side of the rudder w hich =0Acenters the ball in cruise flight, I suspect airflow over it change s as the air =0Adensity changes when flying into the clouds.- Anyone else experience such a =0Astrange phenomenon?- Have an explanation?=0AJim Sto ne =0ALouisville KY=0A275 Hours=0A=0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A Fr om: =0A Tom =0A Martin =0A To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com =0A Sent: Frid ay, January 08, 2010 11:07 =0A AM=0A Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket =0A Efficiency, Defined!=0A =0A =0A Andrew =0A ----------- =0A I have been fl ying rockets for twelve years now and have been fortunate to =0A have flow n many different versions. -All of them fly beautifully and I =0A can ho nestly say that if I had to go back to other types of aircraft I =0A proba bly would not fly very much. -The last three years I have =0A participat ed in a few events held by the Sport Aircraft Racing League, SARL, =0A htt p://sportairrace.org/index.html =0A . -It has been a real learning exper ience and with constant =0A experimentation I have increased the top speed of my aircraft =0A considerably.- The average top speed, full power, in three races this =0A year was 220.2 knots. -This was full throttle, =0A 2650rpms. =0A In the same three =0A races Wayne Hadath with a stock eng ine, and a clean light stock F1 had a 212 =0A knot average.- The fastest RV8 is currently owned by John Huft, and he is =0A right around the 200 k not range with his beautiful =0A aircraft. =0A I would encourage =0A oth er rocket owners to participate in these events, experiment with your =0A aircraft and find some different ways to get these amazing aircraft even =0A faster. -With gains in top speed, comes gains in efficiency which yo u =0A will use on each and every flight. - =0A - =0A Tom =0A Marti n =0A - =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A From: =0A owner-rocket-list-server@ma tronics.com =0A [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ - =0A Andrew Sent: January 8, 2010 =0A 1:01 AM To:=0A rocket-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket =0A Efficiency, Defined! =0A - =0A C ouldn't agree more =0A Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft, but nothing, NOTHING, =0A can- touch-my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and some of you guys =0A seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I -true out at-max =0A cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly 200-knots, =0A and I've heard some people true out at 205, e ven 210? Is that true, =0A anyone? =0A - =0A And as you say the =0A s peed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to mention, the pretty damn go od =0A "go-slow" STOL capabilities too. =0A - =0A Only tiny Q I have i s =0A that I was under the impression that the best economy comes from low er RPMs, =0A partly or wholly cos of the internal friction of the engine. I wonder if you =0A would have got even better figures at, say, 22" MP and 2000 rpm? Or whatever =0A the lowest RPM limit is, for your engine...? I believe that is the main =0A "trick" that Lindbergh taught the aviators of the US Navy & Marine Corps =0A in the Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent over to teach them to get =0A maximum range and endurance from t heir steeds. =0A - =0A not trying to argue, =0A just thought I'd menti on it. Your basic point - that rockets rock - is pretty =0A indisputable I reckon :) =0A - =0A Andrew =0A - =0A =0A =0A =0A From: =0A ow ner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com =0A [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@ matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 =0A AM To:=0A rocket-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, =0A Defined! =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A Guys, =0A More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by =0A the capabilities of this little machine. C oming home from=0A Dallas =0A post-Christmas I looked at forecast wi nds and thought I would try to one =0A hop it home, nearly 800NM and really get some efficiency numbers. With =0A 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon aux tanks) I launched, cruise =0A climbed to 11,50 0 and after letting my Ly-Con built IO-540 with GAMI =0A injectors s ettle down I began to lean to 50 Degrees LOP and 33 degrees =0A adva nce on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I consistently =0A showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being a =0A Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct =0A to home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climb ed to =0A 15,500 increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF . When I =0A finally began my descent into the swamp I still had nea rly 20 gallons of =0A fuel on board, landing on my 1500 ft grass str ip with 16 gallons =0A left.- =0A =0A --My Rock et is definitely not the =0A fastest on the block with my oversize t ires, caked mud and large =0A tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly shows what John's design =0A is capable of.- =0A =0A - =0A =0A BTW, the tach almost clicked over 100 0 hours as =0A I flew over the house, looking forward to several tho usand =0A more! =0A =0A - =0A =0A Rob "Smokey" =0A Ray =0A =0A HR2 --- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css =0A wrote: =0A From: nico css =0A <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was =0A the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?(MWH) Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 =0A PM =0A =0A ore.com> What =0A was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird? Brian Shul, Retired =0A SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine. As a former SR-71 =0A pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question I'm most =0A often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can b e assured =0A of hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's =0A an interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, =0A but there really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always =0A give yo u a little more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to =0A see 35 miles a minute. Because we flew a programmed Mach number =0A on most missions, and n ever wanted to harm the plane in any way, we =0A never let it run out to any lim its of temperature or speed. Thus, =0A each SR-71 pilot had his own individ ual "high" speed that he saw at =0A some point on some mission. I saw mine over =0A Libya =0A when Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in =0A order. Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and =0A effortlessly took us to Mach numbers we hadn't previously =0A seen. So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my =0A pres entations, someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the =0A Blackbird ?" This was a first. After giving it some =0A thought, I was reminded of a story that I h ad never shared before, =0A and relayed the following. I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF =0A Mildenhall,=0A England , with my =0A back-seater, Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over =0A Europe and th e Iron Curtain when we =0A received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted across =0A=0A Denmark in three minutes, we =0A learned that a small RAF base in the English countryside had =0A requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cad et commander there was a =0A former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a mo tivating moment =0A for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. =0A No problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling =0A over the North Sea , we proceeded to =0A find the small airfield. Walter had a myriad of sophisticated =0A navigation equipment in the back seat, and began to vector me toward =0A the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we found ourselves over a =0A densely wooded area in a slight haze. Lik e most former WWII British =0A airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower and little =0A surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were cl ose and that I =0A should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing bu t trees =0A as far as I could see in the haze. We got a little lower, and =0A I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we were at. With the gear =0A up, anything under 275 was just uncomfort able. Walt said we were =0A practically over the field-yet; there was nothing i n my windscreen. I =0A banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneu ver in hopes of =0A picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, belo w, the =0A cadet commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower =0A in order to get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still =0A day with no wind and partial gray overcast. Walter continued =0A to give me indications that the field should be below us but in the =0A overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we c ontinued to peer =0A out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our powe r back, =0A the awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors =0A in my flying career, as something told me I better cross-check the =0A gauges. As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 =0A knots, my he art stopped and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two =0A throttles full forw ard. At this point we weren't really flying, but =0A were falling in a slight ban k. Just at the moment that both =0A afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of flame (and what a joyous =0A feeling that was) the aircraft fell int o full view of the shocked =0A observers on the tower. Shattering the still quie t of that morning, =0A they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in the ir face as the =0A plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of =0A the infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be =0A de scribed as some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass. Quickly =0A reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Milden hall =0A without incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 =0A minutes. After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were =0A both certai n he was reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily =0A shook our hands and said the commander had told him it was the =0A greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen, especially how we had =0A surprised them with such a precise maneuve r that could only be =0A described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cade t's hats were =0A blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in =0A full afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. =0A Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very =0A we ll that morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited =0A to s ee our low approach. As we retired to the equipment room to =0A change from space suits t o flight suits, we just sat there-we hadn't =0A spoken a word since "the pass ." Finally, Walter looked at me and =0A said, "One hundred fifty-six kn ots.- What did you see?" Trying =0A to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two." We sat in =0A silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do t hat to =0A me again!" And I never did. A year later, Walter and I =0A were having lunch in the Mildenhall O fficer's club, and overheard an =0A officer talking to some cadets about an S R-71 fly-past that he had =0A seen one day. Of course, by now the story i ncluded kids falling off =0A the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singe d their eyebrows. =0A Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in =0A our hands, he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had =0A occurr ed. Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a =0A routi ne low approach; they're pretty impressive in that =0A plane." Impressive indeed. Little did I realize after =0A relaying this experience to my audien ce that day that it would become =0A one of the most popular and most requested stories. It's ironic that =0A people are interested in how slow the world's f astest jet can fly. =0A Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good i dea to =0A keep that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, =0A too. nbsp;---> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List _sp;---> =0A h - - =0A - - ---- List Contribu tion Web Site; - =0A - - - - - - - - - &nb; =0A http:===================== == =0A - =0A - - -href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigato r?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http:/ /forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// www.matronics.com/c - -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-Listht tp://www.matronics.com/contribution -Checked by AVG. Checked by =0A AVG. =======================0A=0A=0A =0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Date: Jan 11, 2010
Did you guys find the kid? _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:23 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! G'day again Andy, To answer your question, yes, I have LR tanks, a design identical to Hotel Whiskey Aviation's (Safe Air One) tanks that slide through the lightening holes in the wing forward of the spar with the largest portion inside the tip, five gallons each for a total capacity of 54 gallons. Mine utilize a check valve which requires no separate valves, settings, pumps or otherwise to drain, gravity and vent pressure drain them dry every time. Maximum range cruise I have tried many settings but 20"/2350 RPM between 8500 and 10500 feet 50 LOP and 33 degrees advance with the GAMI injectors seems to deliver the best speed/economy. This equates to 10.5 GPH at 183 Knots TAS. On one occasion searching for a lost child in the swamp I set 20/20 leaned to peak and saw 6.5 GPH at 125 knots flying search patterns for over five hours and and still had enough fuel left to fly 200NM home at high cruise! Your mileage may vary:) Smokey HR2 --- On Sat, 1/9/10, Jim Stone wrote: From: Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 7:57 AM Tom and others, Have you ever noticed your Rocket yaws when you fly into the clouds. I got significant vertigo the first few times I went IMC and then figured out why. I noticed as I flew into the clouds my inner ear sensed a 30 deg left bank but the aircraft remained wings level. I noticed the ball was out to the left and when I centered it, my vertigo went away. Question, what the heck is causing the ball to slide left when flying into the clouds? Btw, I have a plastic wedge on the left side of the rudder which centers the ball in cruise flight, I suspect airflow over it changes as the air density changes when flying into the clouds. Anyone else experience such a strange phenomenon? Have an explanation? Jim Stone Louisville KY 275 Hours ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Martin Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:07 AM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Andrew I have been flying rockets for twelve years now and have been fortunate to have flown many different versions. All of them fly beautifully and I can honestly say that if I had to go back to other types of aircraft I probably would not fly very much. The last three years I have participated in a few events held by the Sport Aircraft Racing League, SARL, http://sportairrace.org/index.html . It has been a real learning experience and with constant experimentation I have increased the top speed of my aircraft considerably. The average top speed, full power, in three races this year was 220.2 knots. This was full throttle, 2650rpms. In the same three races Wayne Hadath with a stock engine, and a clean light stock F1 had a 212 knot average. The fastest RV8 is currently owned by John Huft, and he is right around the 200 knot range with his beautiful aircraft. I would encourage other rocket owners to participate in these events, experiment with your aircraft and find some different ways to get these amazing aircraft even faster. With gains in top speed, comes gains in efficiency which you will use on each and every flight. Tom Martin _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ - Andrew Sent: January 8, 2010 1:01 AM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft, but nothing, NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and some of you guys seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I true out at max cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly 200 knots, and I've heard some people true out at 205, even 210? Is that true, anyone? And as you say the speed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to mention, the pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL capabilities too. Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best economy comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal friction of the engine. I wonder if you would have got even better figures at, say, 22" MP and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit is, for your engine...? I believe that is the main "trick" that Lindbergh taught the aviators of the US Navy & Marine Corps in the Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent over to teach them to get maximum range and endurance from their steeds. not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your basic point - that rockets rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :) Andrew _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Guys, More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of this little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at forecast winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and really get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-Con built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degrees LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being a Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct to home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 15,500 increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally began my descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board, landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left. My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly shows what John's design is capable of. BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house, looking forward to several thousand more! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 --- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote: From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?(MWH) Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird? Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine. As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured of hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute. Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high" speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order. Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen. So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations, someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?" This was a first. After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never shared before, and relayed the following. I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England , with my back-seater, Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the North Sea , we proceeded to find the small airfield. Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat, and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as far as I could see in the haze. We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and partial gray overcast. Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges. As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank. Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass. Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes. After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen, especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low approach. As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass." Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. What did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two." We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me again!" And I never did. A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71 fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their eyebrows. Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands, he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred. Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane." Impressive indeed. Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories. It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too. nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List _sp; --> h <http://forums.matronics.com> - List Contribution Web Site; &nb; http:======================= <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. Checked by AVG. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-Lofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">h ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rocket Efficiency, Defined!
Date: Jan 12, 2010
From: "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" <andrew(at)nzactive.com>
Thx for the info, y'all. Will seriously consider prop upgrade at overhaul time. Or before :) An extra 10 knots would be marvellous! Andrew ________________________________ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:00 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! G'day again Andy, To answer your question, yes, I have LR tanks, a design identical to Hotel Whiskey Aviation's (Safe Air One) tanks that slide through the lightening holes in the wing forward of the spar with the largest portion inside the tip, five gallons each for a total capacity of 54 gallons. Mine utilize a check valve which requires no separate valves, settings, pumps or otherwise to drain, gravity and vent pressure drain them dry every time. Maximum range cruise I have tried many settings but 20"/2350 RPM between 8500 and 10500 feet 50 LOP and 33 degrees advance with the GAMI injectors seems to deliver the best speed/economy. This equates to 10.5 GPH at 183 Knots TAS. On one occasion searching for a lost child in the swamp I set 20/20 leaned to peak and saw 6.5 GPH at 125 knots flying search patterns for over five hours and and still had enough fuel left to fly 200NM home at high cruise! Your mileage may vary:) Smokey HR2 --- On Sat, 1/9/10, Jim Stone wrote: From: Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 7:57 AM Tom and others, Have you ever noticed your Rocket yaws when you fly into the clouds. I got significant vertigo the first few times I went IMC and then figured out why. I noticed as I flew into the clouds my inner ear sensed a 30 deg left bank but the aircraft remained wings level. I noticed the ball was out to the left and when I centered it, my vertigo went away. Question, what the heck is causing the ball to slide left when flying into the clouds? Btw, I have a plastic wedge on the left side of the rudder which centers the ball in cruise flight, I suspect airflow over it changes as the air density changes when flying into the clouds. Anyone else experience such a strange phenomenon? Have an explanation? Jim Stone Louisville KY 275 Hours ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Martin To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:07 AM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Andrew I have been flying rockets for twelve years now and have been fortunate to have flown many different versions. All of them fly beautifully and I can honestly say that if I had to go back to other types of aircraft I probably would not fly very much. The last three years I have participated in a few events held by the Sport Aircraft Racing League, SARL, http://sportairrace.org/index.html . It has been a real learning experience and with constant experimentation I have increased the top speed of my aircraft considerably. The average top speed, full power, in three races this year was 220.2 knots. This was full throttle, 2650rpms. In the same three races Wayne Hadath with a stock engine, and a clean light stock F1 had a 212 knot average. The fastest RV8 is currently owned by John Huft, and he is right around the 200 knot range with his beautiful aircraft. I would encourage other rocket owners to participate in these events, experiment with your aircraft and find some different ways to get these amazing aircraft even faster. With gains in top speed, comes gains in efficiency which you will use on each and every flight. Tom Martin ________________________________ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ - Andrew Sent: January 8, 2010 1:01 AM To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Couldn't agree more Smokey - I've flown a bunch of different aircraft, but nothing, NOTHING, can touch my Rocket. Except another Rocket, and some of you guys seem to have slightly faster ones than I do - I true out at max cruise (2500 rpm, max throttle, 5000-10,000 feet) at exactly 200 knots, and I've heard some people true out at 205, even 210? Is that true, anyone? And as you say the speed/economy equation is extraordinary - not to mention, the pretty damn good "go-slow" STOL capabilities too. Only tiny Q I have is that I was under the impression that the best economy comes from lower RPMs, partly or wholly cos of the internal friction of the engine. I wonder if you would have got even better figures at, say, 22" MP and 2000 rpm? Or whatever the lowest RPM limit is, for your engine...? I believe that is the main "trick" that Lindbergh taught the aviators of the US Navy & Marine Corps in the Pacific, back in '44 or so, when he was sent over to teach them to get maximum range and endurance from their steeds. not trying to argue, just thought I'd mention it. Your basic point - that rockets rock - is pretty indisputable I reckon :) Andrew ________________________________ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ray Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:31 AM To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Efficiency, Defined! Guys, More on a Rocket note, I am constantly amazed by the capabilities of this little machine. Coming home from Dallas post-Christmas I looked at forecast winds and thought I would try to one hop it home, nearly 800NM and really get some efficiency numbers. With 54 gallons of 100LL on board( 10 gallon aux tanks) I launched, cruise climbed to 11,500 and after letting my Ly-Con built IO-540 with GAMI injectors settle down I began to lean to 50 Degrees LOP and 33 degrees advance on my EI. With just under 20" MP and 2375 RPM I consistently showed 10.4 GPH at 235 Knots GS, a nice tailwind indeed. Being a Saturday and knowing the Whiskey areas would be cold I requested direct to home, straight over the Golfo De Mexico, went on O2 and climbed to 15,500 increasing my GS to 252 knots retaining the same FF. When I finally began my descent into the swamp I still had nearly 20 gallons of fuel on board, landing on my 1500 ft grass strip with 16 gallons left. My Rocket is definitely not the fastest on the block with my oversize tires, caked mud and large tailwheel dragging in the breeze, but it truly shows what John's design is capable of. BTW, the tach almost clicked over 1000 hours as I flew over the house, looking forward to several thousand more! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 --- On Wed, 1/6/10, nico css wrote: From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Subject: Rocket-List: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?(MWH) Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:29 PM What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird? Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine. As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured of hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute. Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high" speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order. Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen. So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations, someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?" This was a first. After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never shared before, and relayed the following. I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England , with my back-seater, Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the North Sea , we proceeded to find the small airfield. Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat, and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as far as I could see in the haze. We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and partial gray overcast. Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges. As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank. Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass. Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes. After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen, especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low approach. As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass." Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. What did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two." We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me again!" And I never did. A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71 fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their eyebrows. Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands, he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred. Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane." Impressive indeed. Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories. It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too. nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List _sp; --> h - List Contribution Web Site; &nb; <http://forums.matronics.com> http:======================= <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron h ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. Checked by AVG. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-Lofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">h ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: speed issues
Date: Jan 12, 2010
From: "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" <andrew(at)nzactive.com>
Vince, I'm not sure if you're responding to my post, but if so, yes, I mean down elevator, not down trim. I'm no aerodynamicist of course. What I mean is, at cruise, the elevator is deflected down quite a bit. By no means full elevator tho, which is why I wonder if you're responding to another post. Under these conditions, the trim, of course, is set in a manner which holds it there. I guess I was wondering if having a setup so that the elevator chord and the HS chord were on the same line would be better. I'll look into it more closely at different loadings. Thanks for the advice re tails coming off. I didn't build my Rocket, but consulted with the builder who was clear that he built it to plan. It was his 3rd or 4th homebuilt, and I think he knows what he's doing. The rocket has 1000 hrTT, of which 600 hrs have been mine, and no probs yet. Of course, a departing part of the tail feathers is the kind of prob you only have once. I completely agree with your thoughts about getting a few pairs of extra, expert, eyes to look over one's work. So, no serious issues with tails in the fleet? Great.I have nonetheless been wondering about rebuilding the tail with thicker metal, especially cos I deal with a lot of mountain-induced turbulence in NZ, and it's hard to get down from cruise speed to VA in a hurry, without shock cooling. Obviously better anticipatin of turbulence is part of the PILOT solution. I've just been wondering about a *metalurgical* solution too. Cheers Andrew -----Original Message----- From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frazier, Vincent A Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:16 PM Subject: Rocket-List: speed issues --> Full down elevator at cruise? I hope you mean down trim... but then what happens with a pax? More info needed! If what you say is true, then there are other issues than speed to be worried about first. Regarding a well known accident, the tail came off of a Rocket due to a MAJOR builder error that absolutely would have been caught had the builder had nearly any reasonably competent RV or Rocket builder do a pre-inspection inspection, i.e. an inspection before the feds arrived and definitely before anyone flew it. It really SUCKS that this happened so needlessly. For goodness sakes guys, no matter how much of a stud you think you are, have at least one, and preferably two sets of competent, independent eyes look over your work before you fly a new bird. For example, we've got a local guy who has flown since WWII and has been an engineer all his life. He's as sharp as anyone I know, but he's had several (at least five) off airport excursions/incidents/accidents in his homebuilt because he won't take advantage of the EAA tech counselors or flight advisors. (The saying "You can always tell a german, but you can't tell him much" applies here!) The gentleman in question is without a doubt the luckiest man I know, but he really makes it tough on the rest of us out here. He is also the most stubborn, hard headed person I know. He also totaled his C-170 and then fixed it literally with duct tape, bailing wire, and a sledge hammer. They're out there and walk among us. Amazing. Back to the issues at hand. built right, there aren't any issues with the tails coming off the Rockets. Vince www.flyboyaccessories.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: hr2pilot(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 17, 2010
Subject: Fwd: Looking for a Rocket
Apple-Mail-5--169183970-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Looking for a Rocket
Date: Jan 17, 2010
----- Original Message ----- From: <hr2pilot(at)aol.com> Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 1:53 PM Subject: Rocket-List: Fwd: Looking for a Rocket > Apple-Mail-5--169183970-- > > John, I don't see what you forwarded to the list. Jim > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Harmon <hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Subject: Fwd: Looking for a Rocket
Date: Jan 17, 2010
Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: > From: John Harmon <harmonrocket(at)aol.com> > Date: January 17, 2010 10:35:39 AM PST > To: hr2pilot(at)aol.com > Subject: Fwd: Looking for a Rocket > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: careytn(at)comcast.net >> Date: January 17, 2010 4:30:02 AM PST >> To: harmonrocket(at)aol.com >> Subject: Re: Looking for a Rocket >> > >> Hello again John, Amy -- >> >> Thanks again for your previous Harmon Rocket info -- still very >> interested in test flying / buying an existing Rocket -- have stuck >> out couple times now as planes have been sold before I can get to >> them from here in Virginia. I regularly check Barnstormers / Trade- >> a-Plane / Controller.com. >> >> REQUEST -- If you know of well-built Rockets coming up for sale any >> time in the future, would greatly appreciate an email or call. >> >> ALSO, if you know an owner, preferably on the East Coast, who'd be >> willing to fly me, would appreciate contact info. Gladly cover all >> expenses. >> >> (I am looking for IFR-capable Rocket if possible, as I need travel >> flexibility; though budget-limited, would consider any you think >> well-built.) >> >> Thanks, love your plane >> >> Tim Carey >> (USAF, retired) >> Dulles Aviation, Inc. >> Manassas Regional Airport (KHEF) >> Home 703 590-2536 >> Cell 703 863-2981 >> careytn(at)comcast.net >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: harmonrocket(at)aol.com >> To: careytn(at)comcast.net >> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 2:30:19 PM GMT -05:00 Colombia >> Subject: Re: Rocket >> >> >> SCHOOLER FLYING CO >> 100 PIPER AVE >> CHICO, CA 95973 >> 530-899-0101 >> >> If you need anything further let us know! >> >> Thank You, >> >> >> Amy Osorio >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: careytn(at)comcast.net >> To: harmonrocket(at)aol.com >> Sent: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 9:10 am >> Subject: Re: Rocket >> >> Thanks John -- >> >> Are you able to give me name / contact info for the builder at Chico? >> >> Tim >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: harmonrocket(at)aol.com >> To: careytn(at)comcast.net >> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:20:36 AM GMT -05:00 Colombia >> Subject: Rocket >> >> There are a couple of Rockets at Grassvally and a builder at the >> Chico airport. >> You well find the Rocket easer to handle than the Cub or the Nocker >> John > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 18, 2010
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Looking for a Rocket
John, --I would be interested in chatting with Tim, my 13 year old HR2 (N760R F) is a nice one and I might sell to the right person. Rob "Smokey" Ray --- On Sun, 1/17/10, John Harmon wrote: From: John Harmon <hr2pilot(at)aol.com> Subject: Rocket-List: Fwd: Looking for a Rocket Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 1:34 PM Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: From: John Harmon <harmonrocket(at)aol.com> Date: January 17, 2010 10:35:39 AM PST Subject: Fwd: Looking for a Rocket Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: From: careytn(at)comcast.net Date: January 17, 2010 4:30:02 AM PST Subject: Re: Looking for a Rocket Hello again John, Amy -- Thanks again for your previous Harmon Rocket info -- still very interested in test flying / buying an existing Rocket -- have stuck out couple times n ow as planes have been sold before I can get to them from here in Virginia. - I regularly check Barnstormers / Trade-a-Plane / Controller.com. - REQUEST -- If you know of well-built Rockets coming up for sale any time in the future, would greatly appreciate an email or call. ALSO, if you know an owner, preferably on the East Coast, who'd be willing to fly me, would appreciate contact info.- Gladly cover all expenses. (I am looking for IFR-capable Rocket if possible, as I need travel flexibil ity; though budget-limited, would consider any you think well-built.)- Thanks, love your plane Tim Carey (USAF, retired) Dulles Aviation, Inc. Manassas Regional Airport (KHEF) Home 703 590-2536 Cell - - 703 863-2981 careytn(at)comcast.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: harmonrocket(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 2:30:19 PM GMT -05:00 Colombia Subject: Re: Rocket =0A-=0A=0A=0ASCHOOLER FLYING CO =0A100 PIPER AVE =0ACHICO, CA 95973 =0A530-899-0101=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0AIf you need anything further let us kno w!=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0AThank You,=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0AAmy Osori o=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A-----Original Message----- =0AFrom: careytn(at)comcast.net =0ATo: harmonrocket(at)aol.com =0ASent: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 9:10 am =0ASubject: Re: Rocket =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A#yiv1813718231 #AOLMsgPart_2_fa6f191f-c7ff-441f-b1c4-93b6f25 925c2 p {margin:0;}=0A=0A=0AThanks John -- =0A =0AAre you able to give me name / contact info for the builder at Chico? =0A =0ATim =0A =0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: harmonrocket(at)aol.com =0ATo: careytn(at)comcast.net =0ASent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:20:36 AM GMT -05:00 Colombia =0ASubject: Rocket =0A =0A=0A=0AThere are a couple of Rockets at Grassvally and a builder at the C hico airport.=0A=0A=0AYou well find the Rocket easer to handle than the Cub -======================== ============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: FW: [TruthByRushDelivery] What are we thinking?
Date: Jan 22, 2010
Finally, another brain spike! <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2010/01/what-are-we-thinking.html> TruthByRushDelivery ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Branden Hartman <hondaguy46041(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: FW: [TruthByRushDelivery] What are we thinking?
Date: Jan 22, 2010
Please remove me from the list. From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com Subject: Rocket-List: FW: [TruthByRushDelivery] What are we thinking? Date: Fri=2C 22 Jan 2010 08:19:32 -0800 Finally=2C another brain spike! TruthByRushDelivery _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ray axley" <captrayj(at)netscape.com>
Subject: RE: Rocket-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 02/17/10
Date: Feb 18, 2010
Please remove me from your list..thank ray axley captrayj(at)comcast.net captrayj(at)netscape.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rocket-List Digest Server Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:59 AM Subject: Rocket-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 02/17/10 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Rocket-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Rocket-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 10-02-17&Archive=Rocket Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 2010-02-17&Archive=Rocket =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Rocket-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/17/10: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4871 (20100216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4871 (20100216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2010
From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: new guy
Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traffic her e? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL At ha ller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at www .flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions =0A-Dan Weseman -=0A =0A________________________________=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2010
From: Bowen Miles <cessna170bdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: new guy
Dan, - There seems to be only occasional traffic here on the Rocket List. There's a little more on Vans Air Force at http://www.vansairforce.com/community/fo rumdisplay.php?f. - Miles Tehachapi, CA - SLOWLY plugging away on HRII #211. --- On Thu, 2/18/10, Daniel Weseman wrote: From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Rocket-List: new guy Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 2:50 PM Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traffic her e? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL At ha ller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at www .flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions -Dan Weseman - ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fred LaForge" <fred.laforge(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: new guy
Date: Feb 18, 2010
Welcome to the group Daniel. Most of us Rocket builders are second time builders like you, so its kinda quiet here. But if you have a question, Im sure someone will help. Good luck with your project. Fred LaForge HR-II 58 hrs now and a dream to fly. ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Weseman To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:50 PM Subject: Rocket-List: new guy Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traffic here? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL At haller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at www.flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions Dan Weseman ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new guy
Date: Feb 18, 2010
From: Danny <vft(at)aol.com>
Hi Dan, Great to see another Florida Rocket. Danny Melnik F1 N14ZM Dreamer Melbourne, FL -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Thu, Feb 18, 2010 5:50 pm Subject: Rocket-List: new guy Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traffic he re? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL At haller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at www.flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions Dan Weseman ======================== =========== -= - The Rocket-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>
Subject: Re: new guy
Date: Feb 18, 2010
Hi Dan. I purchased some parts (slider canopy, fairings) from Mark Frederick at team rocket. Since I'm a customer, I was permitted access to the Team Rocket Forum on his website. There is some useful information on that site as well. Currently, I am reinforcing the RV-4 tail based on several recommendations on that list. It involves adding stiffeners between the spars on the HS and adding a front spar doubler on the HS as well. This is to eliminate the tail shake that some Rockets experience. I urge you to become a customer of Mark as well at some point. It may be a while, but don't close up your HS until you get the details. This probably applies if you are using a -8 HS as well. Vern Little HRII From: Daniel Weseman Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:50 PM Subject: Rocket-List: new guy Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traffic here? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL At haller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at www.flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions Dan Weseman ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 07:34:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 2010
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: new guy
Dan, - - It's nice to know Arvil's kit is becoming a Rocket, he would have liked that. John Harmon is still a wealth of information, (he designed it!) and always willing to chat about anything Rocket related or otherwise.-I enjo yed stopping by John's cafe a couple of years ago while bringing a Luscombe to TX for a friend and having dinner with him. My Rocket just clicked over 1000 hours and compared to my RV4 (which I put 1500 hours on) is still an amazing machine. - Good luck, let me know if you need any help:) - Smokey HR2 --- On Thu, 2/18/10, Vern Little <sprocket@vx-aviation.com> wrote: From: Vern Little <sprocket@vx-aviation.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: new guy Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 9:03 PM Hi Dan. I purchased some parts (slider canopy, fairings) from Mark Frederick at tea m rocket.- Since I'm a customer, I was permitted access to the Team Rocke t Forum on his website.- There is some useful information on that site as well.- - Currently, I am reinforcing the RV-4 tail based on several recommendations on that list.- It involves adding stiffeners between the spars on the HS and adding a front spar doubler on the HS as well.- This is to eliminate the tail shake that some Rockets experience.- I urge you to become a cust omer of Mark as well at some point.- It may be a while, but don't close u p your HS until you get the details.- This probably applies if you are us ing a -8 HS as well. - Vern Little HRII From: Daniel Weseman Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:50 PM Subject: Rocket-List: new guy Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traffic her e? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL At ha ller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at www .flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions -Dan Weseman - href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Release Date: 02/18/10 07:34:00 =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 2010
From: Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: new guy
Vern, =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- I bought a tail kit off Mark before F1 kit p roduction was halted. I sold it which was a big mistake. I am flying a RV6- A and will be building a rocket starting this summer. =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- I also have access to the Team Rocket forum and agree it's an excellent resource. I plan on building=C2-an F1 but if =C2-the kit becomes available again or a "Hybrid Rocket" using many F1 pa rts including the tail kit. =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Mark are you out there.....are tail kits ava ilable PLEASE. =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Tom in Ohio=C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:03:44 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: Rocket-List: new guy Hi Dan. I purchased some parts (slider canopy, fairings) from Mark Frederick at tea m rocket.=C2- Since I'm a customer, I was permitted access to the Team Ro cket Forum on his website.=C2- There is some useful information on that s ite as well.=C2- Currently, I am reinforcing the RV-4 tail based on several recommendations on that list.=C2- It involves adding stiffeners between the spars on the HS and adding a front spar doubler on the HS as well.=C2- This is to elim inate the tail shake that some Rockets experience.=C2- I urge you to beco me a customer of Mark as well at some point.=C2- It may be a while, but d on't close up your HS until you get the details.=C2- This probably applie s if you are using a -8 HS as well. Vern Little HRII From: Daniel Weseman Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:50 PM Subject: Rocket-List: new guy Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traffic her e? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL At ha ller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at www .flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions =C2-Dan Weseman href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Release Date: 02/18/10 07:34:00 == ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 2010
From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Tails?
Hi Guys first thanks for the nice welcome. Ive studied all the info i can f ind on-Rocket tails. I have a few questions. =0AFirst why are some tails considered faster? Just due to size ?=0Anext can anyone detail-what makes the F-1 tails so much stronger? Ive heard of the extra-skin stiffeners b ut-=0Aare the skins thicker=0Aspars thicker or have doublers etc=0AI have a nice--4 empenage with .020 control surface skins.-I have another com plete empenage kit so i could build a new vertical and horizontal if mods a re available to drastically increase strength? Thanks for any detailed info about the differences in the structure of the tails used=0A-Dan Weseman =0Adanweseman(at)yahoo.com=0Awww.flycleanex.com=0Awww.fly5thbearing.com =0A=0A =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>
Subject: Re: Tails?
Date: Feb 23, 2010
Just for you: http://www.vx-aviation.com/sprocket/empennage.htm My website is still being developed, but this is the start of the answer to your questions. Vern From: Daniel Weseman Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 5:55 PM Subject: Rocket-List: Tails? Hi Guys first thanks for the nice welcome. Ive studied all the info i can find on Rocket tails. I have a few questions. First why are some tails considered faster? Just due to size ? next can anyone detail what makes the F-1 tails so much stronger? Ive heard of the extra skin stiffeners but are the skins thicker spars thicker or have doublers etc I have a nice -4 empenage with .020 control surface skins. I have another complete empenage kit so i could build a new vertical and horizontal if mods are available to drastically increase strength? Thanks for any detailed info about the differences in the structure of the tails used Dan Weseman danweseman(at)yahoo.com www.flycleanex.com www.fly5thbearing.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 19:34:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 2010
From: tompowersrv4(at)sbcglobal.net
Subject: Yahoo! Auto Response
Im in the process of deleting this E-Mail account and transitioning to a new one. Please make note of new address below and discontinue using the sbcglobal.net one. New Address. tp.rocket(at)gmail.com Thanks, Tom Powers ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hr2pilot(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 23, 2010
Subject: Re: Tails?
The only Rockets That have reported a shake were built using .016 Elevators, the .020 ( recomended ) have not had any problems. John John Harmon D &J Harmon Co., Inc 2201 Coy Avenue Bakersfield, CA 93307 661-396-3570 661-396-3574 FAX www.harmonso2generators.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rocket Spinner
Date: Feb 25, 2010
From: johntmey(at)aol.com
Rocketeers, I have Rocket composite spinner & backplate, no faults, painted metallic silver. It ran about 200 hours on Vetterman's HRII and mine. I bought the prop an d spinner in 2002 when he switched to MT prop. Later I popped for the big bucks & bought Hartzell metal spinner via F-1 TeamRocket. Composite spinner shipped $500. Pic on request. johntmey(at)aol.com John Meyers N5800 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 2010
From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tails?
Thanks for all the info guys. I found this site-www.docthrock.com- it s hoes the F-1 evo tail. It has-2 doublers on the front VS spar and a doubl er on the front of the HS rear spar. it also has some angle doublers on the front HS spar. Funny it dose not have the extras "rib" skins stiffeners in it? I think i will use my -4 control surfaces as is. Thanks=0A---- --------=0A- Dan Weseman=0Adanweseman(at)yahoo.com=0Awww.fly cleanex.com=0Awww.fly5thbearing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________ ________=0AFrom: Vern Little <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>=0ATo: rocket-list@m atronics.com=0ASent: Tue, February 23, 2010 4:09:26 PM=0ASubject: Re: Rocke t-List: Tails?=0A=0A=0AJust for you: http://www.vx-aviation.com/sprocket/em pennage.htm=0A-=0AMy website is still being developed, but this is the st art of the answer to your questions.=0A-=0AVern=0A=0A=0AFrom: Daniel Wese man =0ASent: Friday, February 19, 2010 5:55 PM=0ATo: rocket-list@matronics. com =0ASubject: Rocket-List: Tails?=0A=0AHi Guys first thanks for the nice welcome. Ive studied all the info i can find on-Rocket tails. I have a fe w questions. =0AFirst why are some tails considered faster? Just due to siz e ?=0Anext can anyone detail-what makes the F-1 tails so much stronger? I ve heard of the extra-skin stiffeners but-=0Aare the skins thicker=0Asp ars thicker or have doublers etc=0AI have a nice--4 empenage with .020 co ntrol surface skins.-I have another complete empenage kit so i could buil d a new vertical and horizontal if mods are available to drastically increa se strength? Thanks for any detailed info about the differences in the stru cture of the tails used=0A-Dan Weseman=0Adanweseman(at)yahoo.com=0Awww.flycl eanex.com=0Awww.fly5thbearing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.mat ronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/ contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c=0A=0A_____________________________ =======0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2010
From: Jerry Wymer <jerryw(at)higherspeed.net>
Subject: HR II fuselage fixture
Have a steel HRII fuselage fixture for free. You pick up. Will have for a few weeks, then I'm cutting it up. Jerry W. 505-281-0424 Albuquerque, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2010
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Hi Guys, - Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you knew the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 wil l click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Date: Apr 26, 2010
From: hr2pilot(at)aol.com
The Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june) John -----Original Message----- From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in Hi Guys, Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you knew the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 wi ll click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 ======================== =========== -= - The Rocket-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2010
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Thanks sir! --- On Mon, 4/26/10, hr2pilot(at)aol.com wrote: From: hr2pilot(at)aol.com <hr2pilot(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 12:00 PM =0AThe Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june)=0A =0A=0AJohn =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A-----Original Message----- =0AFrom: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> =0ATo: Rocket List =0ASent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am =0ASubject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AHi Guys, =0A =0A- Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you k new the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 will click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em! =0A =0ARob "Smokey" Ray =0AHR2 =0A =0A target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2010
From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Hi Guys-Any chance for a east coast Rocket gathering ...Maybe in Florida? --I'm finally-slowly getting my project moving .... I love building , but a ride in a HrII would probably shift it into high gear... Let see- FL-to CA in my sonex at 160 mph... and 300 mile range , not this year. =0A-Dan Weseman=0Adanweseman(at)yahoo.com=0Awww.flycleanex.com=0Awww.fly5thb earing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "hr2pilo t(at)aol.com" =0ATo: rocket-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, April 26, 2010 3:00:20 PM=0ASubject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in=0A =0AThe Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june)=0AJ ohn=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Rob Ray <smokyray@rock etmail.com>=0ATo: Rocket List =0ASent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am=0ASubject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in=0A=0A=0AHi Guys ,=0A=0A- Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of y ou knew the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 will click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em!=0A=0ARob "Smokey" Ray=0AHR2=0A =0A=0A ================= =================== target=_blank >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List========= == tp://forums.matronics.com ============= ======================= _bla nk>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=========== ============ =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2010
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Maybe I should take the hint and organize one eh? I'll need to find a bigge r place than my home drome, "The Swamp"- :) Hmmmmm... Smokey --- On Mon, 4/26/10, Daniel Weseman wrote: From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 6:12 PM =0AHi Guys-Any chance for a east coast Rocket gathering ...Maybe in Flori da?--I'm finally-slowly getting my project moving .... I love buildin g , but a ride in a HrII would probably shift it into high gear... Let see - FL-to CA in my sonex at 160 mph... and 300 mile range , not this year . -Dan Weseman danweseman(at)yahoo.com www.flycleanex.com www.fly5thbearing.com =0A =0A =0A=0A=0AFrom: "hr2pilot(at)aol.com" <hr2pilot(at)aol.com> Sent: Mon, April 26, 2010 3:00:20 PM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in =0AThe Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june)=0AJ ohn =0A =0A-----Original Message----- From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in =0A=0A=0A=0A=0AHi Guys, - Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you knew the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 wil l click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 =========== target=_blank>http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Rocket-List=========== tp://forums.m atronics.com =========== _blank>http://www.matronic s.com/contribution=========== t utilities such as List = =0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Harmon <hr2pilot(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Date: Apr 26, 2010
I thank he was looking for a ride, Rob Sent from my iPhone On Apr 26, 2010, at 8:02 PM, Rob Ray wrote: > Maybe I should take the hint and organize one eh? I'll need to find > a bigger place than my home drome, "The Swamp" :) > > Hmmmmm... > Smokey > > > --- On Mon, 4/26/10, Daniel Weseman wrote: > > From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in > To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 6:12 PM > > Hi Guys Any chance for a east coast Rocket gathering ...Maybe in > Florida? I'm finally slowly getting my project moving .... I love > building , but a ride in a HrII would probably shift it into high > gear... Let see FL to CA in my sonex at 160 mph... and 300 mile > range , not this year. > > Dan Weseman > danweseman(at)yahoo.com > www.flycleanex.com > www.fly5thbearing.com > > > From: "hr2pilot(at)aol.com" <hr2pilot(at)aol.com> > To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Mon, April 26, 2010 3:00:20 PM > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in > > The Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june) > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> > To: Rocket List > Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am > Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in > > Hi Guys, > > Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you > knew the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my > trusty HR2 will click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em! > > Rob "Smokey" Ray > HR2 > > =========== target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List=========== > tp://forums.matronics.com =========== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution========== > t utilities such as List > > > htt--> > > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2010
Subject: Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
From: Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com>
Just a reminder for those who don't know about it----the "Race to Ridgeland", our annual fly-in at the Ridgeland Airport (3J1), SC is this coming Saturday. See: www.racetoridgeland.com for details. 125+ nm cross country race, spot landing contest, and balloon busting competition among much more. No admissions charge, food and beverages available---for a one day event, this is about as much fun as it gets! There will be at least one Rocket there, for sure! Otherwise, I'm definitely up for a Rocket get together somewhere...Florida is fine! Lee... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2010
From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Roby has offered-to-take me up .-Roby if you want to Do a east coast Rocket flyin i have planty of room at 7fl4.-We-a nice 2600 ft strip wit h 1000 ft over runs on each end (4500 ft-between trees) We have-10 rvs here already. Its a fun place to live-and- fly?=0A-Dan Weseman=0Adanw eseman(at)yahoo.com=0Awww.flycleanex.com=0Awww.fly5thbearing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________=0AFrom: John Harmon <hr2pilot(at)aol.com> =0ATo: "rocket-list(at)matronics.com" =0ASent: Mon, April 26, 2010 11:24:25 PM=0ASubject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in =0A=0A=0AI thank he was looking for a ride, Rob=0A=0ASent from my iPhone=0A =0AOn Apr 26, 2010, at 8:02 PM, Rob Ray wrote:=0A =0A=0AMaybe I should take the hint and organize one eh? I'll need to find a bigger place than my home drome, "The Swamp"- :)=0A>=0A>Hmmmmm...=0A>Smo key=0A>=0A>=0A>--- On Mon, 4/26/10, Daniel Weseman w rote:=0A>=0A>=0A>>From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com>=0A>>Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in=0A>>To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com=0A>>D ate: Monday, April 26, 2010, 6:12 PM=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Hi Guys-Any chance for a east coast Rocket gathering ...Maybe in Florida?--I'm finally-slow ly getting my project moving .... I love building , but a ride in a HrII wo uld probably shift it into high gear... Let see- FL-to CA in my sonex a t 160 mph... and 300 mile range , not this year. =0A>>-Dan Weseman=0A>>da nweseman(at)yahoo.com=0A>>www.flycleanex.com=0A>>www.fly5thbearing.com =0A>> =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "hr2pilot@a ol.com" =0A>>To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com=0A>>Sent: Mon, April 26, 2010 3:00:20 PM=0A>>Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in =0A>>=0A>>The Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in ju ne)=0A>>John=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>-----Original Message-----=0A>>From: R ob Ray =0A>>To: Rocket List =0A>>Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am=0A>>Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Ro cket Fly-in=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Hi Guys,=0A>>=0A>>- Pretty quiet on the list th ese days! I was wondering if any of you knew the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 will click over 1000 hours this mo nth, gotta like em!=0A>>=0A>>Rob "Smokey" Ray=0A>>HR2=0A>> =0A>>=0A>> =========== target=_blank>http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Rocket-List=========== tp://forums.matro nics.com =========== _blank>http://www.matronics.co m/contribution=========== =0A>>t utilities such as List=0A>>= =0A>>=0A>>htt--> =0A>=0A> href="http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== =====================0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Date: Apr 27, 2010
Hi Dan, If you want a ride in my Rocket come to Louisville and I'll make it happen for you or let me know what airport you fly out of and I will try to stop in sometime in the near future. Good luck with the project, you will certainly enjoy it when she is done and flying. Jim Stone N918JK On Apr 26, 2010, at 9:12 PM, Daniel Weseman wrote: Hi Guys Any chance for a east coast Rocket gathering ...Maybe in Florida? I'm finally slowly getting my project moving .... I love building , but a ride in a HrII would probably shift it into high gear... Let see FL to CA in my sonex at 160 mph... and 300 mile range , not this year. Dan Weseman danweseman(at)yahoo.com www.flycleanex.com www.fly5thbearing.com From: "hr2pilot(at)aol.com" <hr2pilot(at)aol.com> Sent: Mon, April 26, 2010 3:00:20 PM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in The Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june) John -----Original Message----- From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in Hi Guys, Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you knew the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 will click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 =========== target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List==== ======= tp://forums.matronics.com ======== === _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution======= ==== t utilities such as List = ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
Date: Apr 27, 2010
Hey Smokey, Your nominated, count me in for an east coast Rocket flyin. Jim Stone Louisville On Apr 26, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Rob Ray wrote: Maybe I should take the hint and organize one eh? I'll need to find a bigger place than my home drome, "The Swamp" :) Hmmmmm... Smokey --- On Mon, 4/26/10, Daniel Weseman wrote: From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 6:12 PM Hi Guys Any chance for a east coast Rocket gathering ...Maybe in Florida? I'm finally slowly getting my project moving .... I love building , but a ride in a HrII would probably shift it into high gear... Let see FL to CA in my sonex at 160 mph... and 300 mile range , not this year. Dan Weseman danweseman(at)yahoo.com www.flycleanex.com www.fly5thbearing.com From: "hr2pilot(at)aol.com" <hr2pilot(at)aol.com> Sent: Mon, April 26, 2010 3:00:20 PM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in The Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june) John -----Original Message----- From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in Hi Guys, Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you knew the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 will click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 =========== target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List==== ======= tp://forums.matronics.com ======== === _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution======= ==== t utilities such as List = htt--> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2010
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
I am on it! Smokey --- On Tue, 4/27/10, Jim Stone wrote: From: Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in Date: Tuesday, April 27, 2010, 5:34 AM Hey Smokey,Your nominated, count me in for an east coast Rocket flyin.Jim S toneLouisville On Apr 26, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Rob Ray wrote: Maybe I should take the hint and organize one eh? I'll need to find a bigge r place than my home drome, "The Swamp"- :) Hmmmmm... Smokey --- On Mon, 4/26/10, Daniel Weseman wrote: From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 6:12 PM =0AHi Guys-Any chance for a east coast Rocket gathering ...Maybe in Flori da?--I'm finally-slowly getting my project moving .... I love buildin g , but a ride in a HrII would probably shift it into high gear... Let see - FL-to CA in my sonex at 160 mph... and 300 mile range , not this year . -Dan Weseman danweseman(at)yahoo.com www.flycleanex.com www.fly5thbearing.com =0A =0A =0A=0A=0AFrom: "hr2pilot(at)aol.com" <hr2pilot(at)aol.com> Sent: Mon, April 26, 2010 3:00:20 PM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in =0AThe Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june)=0AJ ohn =0A =0A-----Original Message----- From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in =0A=0A=0A=0A=0AHi Guys, - Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you knew the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 wil l click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 =========== target=_blank>http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Rocket-List=========== tp://forums.m atronics.com =========== _blank>http://www.matronic s.com/contribution=========== t utilities such as List = =0A=0A=0Ahtt--> =0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronic s.com/">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/cont ribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A=0A ===================0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2010
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in
John, looks like he will get a ride and a fly-in too! Hey, if I sent you a pass on Southwest to come to a FL Rocket fly-in, would you be interested? Smokey --- On Mon, 4/26/10, John Harmon wrote: From: John Harmon <hr2pilot(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 8:24 PM I thank he was looking for a ride, Rob Sent from my iPhone On Apr 26, 2010, at 8:02 PM, Rob Ray wrote: Maybe I should take the hint and organize one eh? I'll need to find a bigge r place than my home drome, "The Swamp"- :) Hmmmmm... Smokey --- On Mon, 4/26/10, Daniel Weseman wrote: From: Daniel Weseman <danweseman(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 6:12 PM =0AHi Guys-Any chance for a east coast Rocket gathering ...Maybe in Flori da?--I'm finally-slowly getting my project moving .... I love buildin g , but a ride in a HrII would probably shift it into high gear... Let see - FL-to CA in my sonex at 160 mph... and 300 mile range , not this year . -Dan Weseman danweseman(at)yahoo.com www.flycleanex.com www.fly5thbearing.com =0A =0A =0A=0A=0AFrom: "hr2pilot(at)aol.com" <hr2pilot(at)aol.com> Sent: Mon, April 26, 2010 3:00:20 PM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in =0AThe Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june)=0AJ ohn =0A =0A-----Original Message----- From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in =0A=0A=0A=0A=0AHi Guys, - Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you knew the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 wil l click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 =========== target=_blank>http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Rocket-List=========== tp://forums.m atronics.com =========== _blank>http://www.matronic s.com/contribution=========== t utilities such as List = =0A=0A=0Ahtt--> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http: //www.matronihref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.c om --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========= =======================0A=0A=0A =0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2010
From: careytn(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 04/26/10
Hello Rocketeers, from Manassas VA / KHEF -- Been admiring Rockets for several years now, have had three great back-seat rides courtesy Jim Stone, Phil Matthews, George Fisher, hope to join your ranks soon! Jim Winings and Tom Powers now providing priceless background information to a guy who's never owned a plane, much less an Experimental, much less a Rocket. As to an East Coast Rocket get-together, hoping to own my own in time to fly into the annual Become a Pilot Family Day and Aviation Display June 19, at the Smithsonian Udvar-Hazy Museum, KIAD (google: become a pilot family day udvar-hazy) . However, realize flying into the DC Special Flight Rules Area / SFRA is not that much fun for most folks. So, another Virginia alternative would be the annual Culpeper Airport Air Fest, Oct 19 (google: C ulpeper Airport Air Fest ). It's a great little airport, with CAF squadron on the field, and usually features Harrier and multiple other warbird demos. I know bunch of folks there -- they'd be totally pumped to see Rockets on the ramp. Hope to join your illustrious group soon -- Tim Carey Dulles Aviation, Inc., KHEF VA Wing Civil Air Patrol, KHEF USAF, Retired ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocket-List Digest Server" <rocket-list(at)matronics.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:47:55 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Rocket-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 04/26/10 * ================================================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================== Today's complete Rocket-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Rocket-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 10-04-26&Archive=Rocket Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 10-04-26&Archive=Rocket ================================================ EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================ ---------------------------------------------------------- Rocket-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/26/10: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:04 AM - 2010 Rocket Fly-in (Rob Ray) 2. 12:02 PM - Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in (hr2pilot(at)aol.com) 3. 12:54 PM - Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in (Rob Ray) 4. 06:13 PM - Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in (Daniel Weseman) 5. 08:04 PM - Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in (Rob Ray) 6. 08:25 PM - Re: 2010 Rocket Fly-in (John Harmon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in Hi Guys, - Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you knew the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 wil l click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in From: hr2pilot(at)aol.com The Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june) John -----Original Message----- From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am Subject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in Hi Guys, Pretty quiet on the list these days! I was wondering if any of you knew the date for this years Rocket Gathering at John's? BTW, my trusty HR2 wi ll click over 1000 hours this month, gotta like em! Rob "Smokey" Ray HR2 ======================== =========== -= - The Rocket-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in Thanks sir! --- On Mon, 4/26/10, hr2pilot(at)aol.com wrote: From: hr2pilot(at)aol.com <hr2pilot(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in =0AThe Bakersfield EAA 71 fly-in well be on June 5 ( first sat in june)=0A =0A=0AJohn =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A-----Original Message----- =0AFrom: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> =0ATo: Rocket List =0ASent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:55 am =0ASubject: Rocket-List: 2010 Rocket Fly-in


June 15, 2009 - April 27, 2010

Rocket-Archive.digest.vol-av