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August 04, 2009 - November 14, 2009

health care... Fred Coon Cancer survivor Former N9881U owner In a message dated 8/4/2009 12:53:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time, teamgrumman(at)aol.com writes: Hi Mike, Thanks, seriously, for all your efforts. Don't expect anything to change. Even with 60% in favor of change, hell 80%, don't expect anything to change. A National healthcare system, for example, was first proposed in 1948. At that time, the U.S. ranked 16th in healthcare in the world. At that time, healthcare costs were 1% of the average income. A national healthcare system been pushed ahead with roughly 60% to 75% approval for 61 years. Today, the U.S. ranks 37th in healthcare and costs 25% of the average income. There are still those who are screaming it's going ahead to quickly. A quick note on the subject: I taught Algebra at the Antelope Valley Community College in Lancaster. I taught 4 nights a week, 2 hours a night. I was paid $60/hour. After taxes, my take home a month was roughly $1000. In 2004, I got an invite in the college mail to join the College Health Care System. For $980/month, I could get full coverage, hospital stays, low deductible, etc. I recently tried getting health insurance through AARP. For $300/month I can pay for someone to negotiate with doctors and hospitals. I have full benefits from the VA. I don't know how people afford health insurance. If they have any health issues at all, or history thereof, you can kiss the insurance good bye. OK, I'm getting off my soap box . . . . . . . . -----Original Message-----
From: Mike Boyd <mwboyd(at)gmail.com>
teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 7:29 am
Subject: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll
Results (mailto:mwboyd(at)gmail.com) > Hello Everyone, The Straw Poll should now be closed. You can review the results of the poll here: _http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=185_ (http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=185) A total of 56 votes were cast on the forum, with 49 in favor of changing or removing the date restriction and 7 against a change. In addition, I received 4 e-mails from folks that just could not get the poll to work for them (we'll call these provisional votes) and they were of a similar percentage with 3 in favor of a change and 1 against a change. When including the provisional votes, a total of 60 votes were cast. While this does not sound like a lot when compared to our total membership of 1230 (as reported in the July Star), the roughly 5% is apparently a little larger participation than we had in the most recent election. In my periodic checking of the poll numbers while it was running, I noted that the trend of those in favor to those against a change remained fairly constant from the time when the first 10 votes were cast with 80% or greater being in favor of a change. In an effort to give all AYA members a chance to vote, notice of this poll was sent to the Grumman Gang mailing list, the TeamGruman mailing list, and a copy of the notice was sent to each of the regional directors so they could forward it on to their members (just as this e-mail is). I did receive responses from people on the Grumman Gang, on the TeamGrumman list and from several of the regional directors so, for a poll, I think it achieved a reasonable distribution. So, what does all this mean. My goal here was to see if there was enough real interest to continue pursuing a change to the AYA constitution and I think there is. So, my next step is to check and see if there are any potential legal issues with removing the date restriction from our constitution and check on any other legalities related to proposing an amendment to the board. I'll then draft an amendment and provide it for review/comment on the AYA forum topic above or via another appropriate means. Once we are reasonably happy with the results, I'll submit it to the secretary as outlined in our constitution. Your role in this will be to contact your AYA representatives once we have a final draft and provide them with your thoughts on the subject. While the poll should be a good indication to the board of the thoughts of the membership, it is best for them to hear directly from you when the time comes. Once the amendment is submitted, according to the AYA constitution the board must vote on it and if 60% or more agree, then the amendment is voted on by the membership. And what this does not mean. It is ultimately still up to the members who volunteer, make convention proposals to the board, and chair a convention to come up with proposed dates for a specific convention. All this amendment should do is loosen the restriction on the possible choices for those dates. And now, I'm off to check into those issues mentioned above. I will let you know what I find and when drafts are available. And if anyone wants to help out with any of this, please let me know. Cheers, -Mike ------ Michael Boyd '76 AA5A (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "923te" <923te(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results
Date: Aug 04, 2009
People can make statistics support anything. Why trust WHO? read this: http://smartgirlnation.com/2009/06/01/popular-ranking-unfairly-misreprese nts-the-us-health-care-system/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick " <rdp123(at)verizon.net>
Subject: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results
Date: Aug 04, 2009
1 France 2 Italy 3 San Marino 4 Andorra 5 Malta 6 Singapore 7 Spain 8 Oman 9 Austria 10 Japan 11 Norway 12 Portugal 13 Monaco 14 Greece 15 Iceland 16 Luxembourg 17 Netherlands 18 United Kingdom 19 Ireland 20 Switzerland 21 Belgium 22 Colombia 23 Sweden 24 Cyprus 25 Germany 26 Saudi Arabia 27 United Arab Emirates 28 Israel 29 Morocco 30 Canada 31 Finland 32 Australia 33 Chile 34 Denmark 35 Dominica 36 Costa Rica 37 United States of America <http://allcountries.org/health/usa_health_care_2008_nyt.html> _____ From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of FCoon77901(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 3:42 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results I don.t want change. Please tell us the 36 countries offering better health care... Fred Coon Cancer survivor Former N9881U owner In a message dated 8/4/2009 12:53:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time, teamgrumman(at)aol.com writes: Hi Mike, Thanks, seriously, for all your efforts. Don't expect anything to change. Even with 60% in favor of change, hell 80%, don't expect anything to change. A National healthcare system, for example, was first proposed in 1948. At that time, the U.S. ranked 16th in healthcare in the world. At that time, healthcare costs were 1% of the average income. A national healthcare system been pushed ahead with roughly 60% to 75% approval for 61 years. Today, the U.S. ranks 37th in healthcare and costs 25% of the average income. There are still those who are screaming it's going ahead to quickly. A quick note on the subject: I taught Algebra at the Antelope Valley Community College in Lancaster. I taught 4 nights a week, 2 hours a night. I was paid $60/hour. After taxes, my take home a month was roughly $1000. In 2004, I got an invite in the college mail to join the College Health Care System. For $980/month, I could get full coverage, hospital stays, low deductible, etc. I recently tried getting health insurance through AARP. For $300/month I can pay for someone to negotiate with doctors and hospitals. I have full benefits from the VA. I don't know how people afford health insurance. If they have any health issues at all, or history thereof, you can kiss the insurance good bye. OK, I'm getting off my soap box . . . . . . . . -----Original Message----- From: Mike Boyd <mwboyd(at)gmail.com> teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 7:29 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results Hello Everyone, The Straw Poll should now be closed. You can review the results of the poll here: http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=185 A total of 56 votes were cast on the forum, with 49 in favor of changing or removing the date restriction and 7 against a change. In addition, I received 4 e-mails from folks that just could not get the poll to work for them (we'll call these provisional votes) and they were of a similar percentage with 3 in favor of a change and 1 against a change. When including the provisional votes, a total of 60 votes were cast. While this does not sound like a lot when compared to our total membership of 1230 (as reported in the July Star), the roughly 5% is apparently a little larger participation than we had in the most recent election. In my periodic checking of the poll numbers while it was running, I noted that the trend of those in favor to those against a change remained fairly constant from the time when the first 10 votes were cast with 80% or greater being in favor of a change. In an effort to give all AYA members a chance to vote, notice of this poll was sent to the Grumman Gang mailing list, the TeamGruman mailing list, and a copy of the notice was sent to each of the regional directors so they could forward it on to their members (just as this e-mail is). I did receive responses from people on the Grumman Gang, on the TeamGrumman list and from several of the regional directors so, for a poll, I think it achieved a reasonable distribution. So, what does all this mean. My goal here was to see if there was enough real interest to continue pursuing a change to the AYA constitution and I think there is. So, my next step is to check and see if there are any potential legal issues with removing the date restriction from our constitution and check on any other legalities related to proposing an amendment to the board. I'll then draft an amendment and provide it for review/comment on the AYA forum topic above or via another appropriate means. Once we are reasonably happy with the results, I'll submit it to the secretary as outlined in our constitution. Your role in this will be to contact your AYA representatives once we have a final draft and provide them with your thoughts on the subject. While the poll should be a good indication to the board of the thoughts of the membership, it is best for them to hear directly from you when the time comes. Once the amendment is submitted, according to the AYA constitution the board must vote on it and if 60% or more agree, then the amendment is voted on by the membership. And what this does not mean. It is ultimately still up to the members who volunteer, make convention proposals to the board, and chair a convention to come up with proposed dates for a specific convention. All this amendment should do is loosen the restriction on the possible choices for those dates. And now, I'm off to check into those issues mentioned above. I will let you know what I find and when drafts are available. And if anyone wants to help out with any of this, please let me know. Cheers, -Mike ------ Michael Boyd '76 AA5A =================================== ist href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =================================== ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =================================== tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== _____ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results
Date: Aug 05, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
Costa Rica is #36. Here is something you might not know. ?Unless you can afford your own personal physician, you CANNOT buy better health care once you are eligible for Medicare. ?After 65, you get maintenance care. ?In fact, the doctors cannot even recommend a life saving operation if it is not covered by Medicare. ?Even if you have insurance, any insurance, you cannot get better healthcare once you qualify for Medicare. ?Your only solution is to go to Thailand, Hong Kong, etc. ? Here is an example: a friend of mine, one of my customers, is a doctor in the Bay Area. ?He is part of a medical group. ?Their only concern is making money. ?Most of their post op problems are due to infections. ?This is not uncommon. ?Do some research. ?WHY? ?Because they need to keep costs down so the corporation they formed needs to keep a good bottom line. ?The doctors and hospitals only care about profit. ?Think Wall Street. ? One particular patient was a 64 year old man who needed a hip replacement. ?My friend told me that there are 3 different qualities of hips to use. ?The best one is good for 25 years. ?However, because of his age, the insurance companies will only provide payment for one that is good for 10 to 15 years. ?The better one isn't even an option. ?The patient doesn't even know there is a better one because the doctors cannot reveal that. ? AND. ?Medicare is different in different states. ? Ned's web page sites the quality of medical care available. ?I won't argue that some of the best medical research in the world is in the U.S. ?However, that does not translate into better health care. ?Life expectancy, in the U.S., ranks 45th in the world. ?That is worse than Bosnia (44). ?Infant mortality is 33. That is worse than Cuba (28). ?Even if you can afford world class healthcare, you can't get it. ? The problem is insurance companies. ?I worked out a deal with my doctors to pay cash. ?They love it. ?They don't have any paperwork to do and they pocket the profits. ?My GP in Lancaster told me he spends, on the entire insurance process, up to 50% of his profits. ?He is the owner of his medical group. France 1? Italy?2? San Marino 3? Andorra 4? Malta 5? Singapore 6? Spain 7? Oman 8? Austria 9? Japan 10? Norway 11? Portugal 12? Monaco 13? Greece 14? Iceland 15? Luxemburg 16? Netherlands 17 United Kingdom?18? Ireland 19? Switzerland 20 Belgium 21 Colombia 22 Sweden 23 Cyprus 24 Germany 25 Saudi Arabia 26 United Arab Emirates 27 Israel 28 Morocco 29 Canada 30 Finland 31 Australia 32 Chile 33 Denmark 34 Dominica 35 ?Costa Rica 36 United States 37 Slovenia 38 -----Original Message----- From: FCoon77901(at)AOL.COM Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 3:41 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results I don.t want change.?? Please tell us the 36 countries offering better health care... ? Fred Coon Cancer survivor Former N9881U owner ? In a message dated 8/4/2009 12:53:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time, teamgrumman(at)aol.com writes: Hi Mike, Thanks, seriously, for all your efforts. ?Don't expect anything to change. ?Even with 60% in favor of change, hell 80%, don't expect anything to change. ? A National healthcare system, for example, was first proposed in 1948. ?At that time, the U.S. ranked 16th in healthcare in the world. ?At that time, healthcare costs were 1% of the average income. ?A national healthcare system been pushed ahead with roughly 60% to 75% approval for 61 years. ?Today, the U.S. ranks 37th in healthcare and costs 25% of the average income. ?There are?still?those who are screaming it's going ahead to quickly. ? A quick note on the subject: ?I taught Algebra at the Antelope Valley Community College in Lancaster. ?I taught 4 nights a week, 2 hours a night. ?I was paid $60/hour. ?After taxes, my take home a month was roughly $1000. ?In 2004, I got an invite in the college mail to join the College Health Care System. ?For $980/month, I could get full coverage, hospital stays, low deductible, etc. ? I recently tried getting health insurance through AARP. ?For $300/month I can pay for someone to negotiate with doctors and hospitals. ? I have full benefits from the VA. ? I don't know how people afford health insurance. ?If they have any health issues at all, or history thereof, you can kiss the insurance good bye. ? OK, I'm getting off my soap box . . . . . . . .? -----Original Message----- From: Mike Boyd ; teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 7:29 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AYA Convention Date Restrictions - Straw Poll Results Hello Everyone, The Straw Poll should now be closed.? You can review the results of the poll here: ??? http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=185 A total of 56 votes were cast on the forum, with 49 in favor of changing or removing the date restriction and 7 against a change.? In addition, I received 4 e-mails from folks that just could not get the poll to work for them (we'll call these provisional votes) and they were of a similar percentage with 3 in favor of a change and 1 against a change. When including the provisional votes, a total of 60 votes were cast. While this does not sound like a lot when compared to our total membership of 1230 (as reported in the July Star), the roughly 5% is apparently a little larger participation than we had in the most recent election.? In my periodic checking of the poll numbers while it was running, I noted that the trend of those in favor to those against a change remained fairly constant from the time when the first 10 votes were cast with 80% or greater being in favor of a change. In an effort to give all AYA members a chance to vote, notice of this poll was sent to the Grumman Gang mailing list, the TeamGruman mailing list, and a copy of the notice was sent to each of the regional directors so they could forward it on to their members (just as this e-mail is).? I did receive responses from people on the Grumman Gang, on the TeamGrumman list and from several of the regional directors so, for a poll, I think it achieved a reasonable distribution. So, what does all this mean.? My goal here was to see if there was enough real interest to continue pursuing a change to the AYA constitution and I think there is.? So, my next step is to check and see if there are any potential legal issues with removing the date restriction from our constitution and check on any other legalities related to proposing an amendment to the board.? I'll then draft an amendment and provide it for review/comment on the AYA forum topic above or via another appropriate means.? Once we are reasonably happy with the results, I'll submit it to the secretary as outlined in our constitution.? Your role in this will be to contact your AYA representatives once we have a final draft and provide them with your thoughts on the subject.? While the poll should be a good indication to the board of the thoughts of the membership, it is best for them to hear directly from you when the time comes.? Once the amendment is submitted, according to the AYA constitution the board must vote on it and if 60% or more agree, then the amendment is voted on by the membership. And what this does not mean.? It is ultimately still up to the members who volunteer, make convention proposals to the board, and chair a convention to come up with proposed dates for a specific convention. All this amendment should do is loosen the restriction on the possible choices for those dates. And now, I'm off to check into those issues mentioned above.? I will let you know what I find and when drafts are available.? And if anyone wants to help out with any of this, please let me know. Cheers, -Mike ------ Michael Boyd '76 AA5A =================================== ist href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =================================== ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =================================== tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Greetings, thoughts and concerns
Date: Aug 05, 2009
From: radiohound(at)aol.com
Hi: I am concerned, my friends.? And bothered. I am here on this list to share in the?knowledge?of Grumman flying ... and the general fellowship of folks?who sometimes escape the teneous grasp of gravity .. and reality :). Recently, I have read racial slurs, political attacks and had to endure the to-and-fro of things other than flying and Grummans. Is it possible to keep this to things Grumman and flying ?related? We should communicate about things that bring us together and make us stronger .. not?inject or indulge in ?what easily divide us .... There is enough ugliness in the earthly realm ... Let us be true flyers .. and not get sucked into the muck and mire of?the daily ugliness, but ?rise above the mortal coil ... and traverse in the skies ... As only those gifted mortals who pilot all things Grumman know so well. In community and concern, Frank Sundram N200FW Tiger Davenport, IA ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Greetings, thoughts and concerns
Date: Aug 07, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
I agree -----Original Message----- From: radiohound(at)aol.com Sent: Wed, Aug 5, 2009 11:41 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Greetings, thoughts and concerns Hi: I am concerned, my friends.? And bothered. I am here on this list to share in the?knowledge?of Grumman flying ... and the general fellowship of folks?who sometimes escape the teneous grasp of gravity .. and reality :). Recently, I have read racial slurs, political attacks and had to endure the to-and-fro of things other than flying and Grummans. Is it possible to keep this to things Grumman and flying ?related? We should communicate about things that bring us together and make us stronger .. not?inject or indulge in ?what easily divide us .... There is enough ugliness in the earthly realm ... Let us be true flyers .. and not get sucked into the muck and mire of?the daily ugliness, but ?rise above the mortal coil ... and traverse in the skies ... As only those gifted mortals who pilot all things Grumman know so well. In community and concern, Frank Sundram N200FW Tiger Davenport, IA ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 13, 2009
Subject: AYA Convention Date - Draft for Proposed Amendment
From: Mike Boyd <mwboyd(at)gmail.com>
Hello Everyone, Sorry for taking a little time to get this posted, but life got kinda busy for me the last couple weeks. In any case, I've posted a first draft of the proposal. It is a rather simple change that removes the date window restriction from the original text. I've added it as a reply to the original poll posted on the ayaforum site. http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?p=758 Feel free to take a look, post comments or suggestions. I'd like to get this wrapped up so we can get it submitted to the AYA Secretary reasonably soon, so post replies to the forum topic or shoot me an e-mail with suggestions. Cheers, -Mike ------ Michael Boyd '76 AA5A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 13, 2009
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: AYA Convention Date - Draft for Proposed Amendment
No suggestions .... looks really good. Can't get much simpler than that change!!! Linn Mike Boyd wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > Sorry for taking a little time to get this posted, but life got kinda > busy for me the last couple weeks. In any case, I've posted a first > draft of the proposal. It is a rather simple change that removes the > date window restriction from the original text. I've added it as a > reply to the original poll posted on the ayaforum site. > > http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?p=758 > > Feel free to take a look, post comments or suggestions. I'd like to > get this wrapped up so we can get it submitted to the AYA Secretary > reasonably soon, so post replies to the forum topic or shoot me an > e-mail with suggestions. > > Cheers, > -Mike > ------ > Michael Boyd > '76 AA5A > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: G Vogt <teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM>
Subject: Cowling update
Date: Aug 14, 2009
The STC was signed off today. It only took 9 years and $135,000 from concept to signature. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 13, 2009, at 4:56 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > > > > No suggestions .... looks really good. Can't get much simpler than > that change!!! > Linn > > Mike Boyd wrote: >> >> Hello Everyone, >> >> Sorry for taking a little time to get this posted, but life got kinda >> busy for me the last couple weeks. In any case, I've posted a first >> draft of the proposal. It is a rather simple change that removes the >> date window restriction from the original text. I've added it as a >> reply to the original poll posted on the ayaforum site. >> >> http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?p=758 >> >> Feel free to take a look, post comments or suggestions. I'd like to >> get this wrapped up so we can get it submitted to the AYA Secretary >> reasonably soon, so post replies to the forum topic or shoot me an >> e-mail with suggestions. >> >> Cheers, >> -Mike >> ------ >> Michael Boyd >> '76 AA5A >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cowling update
Date: Aug 14, 2009
From: "Hosler, John" <JHOSLER(at)epri.com>
Gary: Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am very appreciative that you undertook this needed mission. I will definitely consider purchasing the new cowling. John Hosler -----Original Message----- From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G Vogt Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update The STC was signed off today. It only took 9 years and $135,000 from concept to signature. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 13, 2009, at 4:56 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > > > No suggestions .... looks really good. Can't get much simpler than > that change!!! > Linn > > Mike Boyd wrote: >> >> Hello Everyone, >> >> Sorry for taking a little time to get this posted, but life got kinda >> busy for me the last couple weeks. In any case, I've posted a first >> draft of the proposal. It is a rather simple change that removes the >> date window restriction from the original text. I've added it as a >> reply to the original poll posted on the ayaforum site. >> >> http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?p=758 >> >> Feel free to take a look, post comments or suggestions. I'd like to >> get this wrapped up so we can get it submitted to the AYA Secretary >> reasonably soon, so post replies to the forum topic or shoot me an >> e-mail with suggestions. >> >> Cheers, >> -Mike >> ------ >> Michael Boyd >> '76 AA5A >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Mutzman <rcmutz(at)msn.com>
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09
Date: Aug 14, 2009
Looks good to me. The only comment might be that the Board and possibly the membership=2C mig ht prefer a window that does not include the winter months=2C so an April-O ct might be better than a wide open window. Of course the Board always has the right to disapprove a particular date and/or location. Richard > Date: Thu=2C 13 Aug 2009 23:59:10 -0700 > From: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > To: teamgrumman-list-digest(at)matronics.com > Subject: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09 > > * > > ======================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================== > > Today's complete TeamGrumman-List Digest can also be found in either of t he > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the TeamGrumman-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text edit or > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& Chapter 09-08-13&Archive=TeamGrumman > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C hapter 09-08-13&Archive=TeamGrumman > > > ======================== ======================= > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================== ======================= > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Thu 08/13/09: 2 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 03:51 PM - AYA Convention Date - Draft for Proposed Amendment (Mike Bo yd) > 2. 03:56 PM - Re: AYA Convention Date - Draft for Proposed Amendment (Lin n Walters) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 ______________________________ _______ > > > Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AYA Convention Date - Draft for Proposed Amend ment > From: Mike Boyd <mwboyd(at)gmail.com> > > > Hello Everyone=2C > > Sorry for taking a little time to get this posted=2C but life got kinda > busy for me the last couple weeks. In any case=2C I've posted a first > draft of the proposal. It is a rather simple change that removes the > date window restriction from the original text. I've added it as a > reply to the original poll posted on the ayaforum site. > > http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?p=758 > > Feel free to take a look=2C post comments or suggestions. I'd like to > get this wrapped up so we can get it submitted to the AYA Secretary > reasonably soon=2C so post replies to the forum topic or shoot me an > e-mail with suggestions. > > Cheers=2C > -Mike > ------ > Michael Boyd > '76 AA5A > > > ________________________________ Message 2 ______________________________ _______ > > > From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AYA Convention Date - Draft for Proposed A mendment > > > No suggestions .... looks really good. Can't get much simpler than that > change!!! > Linn > > Mike Boyd wrote: > > > > Hello Everyone=2C > > > > Sorry for taking a little time to get this posted=2C but life got kinda > > busy for me the last couple weeks. In any case=2C I've posted a first > > draft of the proposal. It is a rather simple change that removes the > > date window restriction from the original text. I've added it as a > > reply to the original poll posted on the ayaforum site. > > > > http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?p=758 > > > > Feel free to take a look=2C post comments or suggestions. I'd like to > > get this wrapped up so we can get it submitted to the AYA Secretary > > reasonably soon=2C so post replies to the forum topic or shoot me an > > e-mail with suggestions. > > > > Cheers=2C > > -Mike > > ------ > > Michael Boyd > > '76 AA5A > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail=AE . http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=PID233 91::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_express:082009 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2009
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09
Just MHO, but it seems that a winter gathering in the south would be popular ..... at least it seems that way ..... I see NY, NJ, OHIO .... license plates in FL! Linn Richard Mutzman wrote: > Looks good to me. > > The only comment might be that the Board and possibly the membership, > might prefer a window that does not include the winter months, so an > April-Oct might be better than a wide open window. Of course the Board > always has the right to disapprove a particular date and/or location. > > Richard > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cowling update
From: "Rick Pollack" <rdp123(at)verizon.net>
Date: Aug 15, 2009
Bravo !!! ------Original Message------ From: G Vogt Sender: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update Sent: Aug 14, 2009 3:21 PM The STC was signed off today. It only took 9 years and $135,000 from concept to signature. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 13, 2009, at 4:56 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > > > > No suggestions .... looks really good. Can't get much simpler than > that change!!! > Linn > > Mike Boyd wrote: >> >> Hello Everyone, >> >> Sorry for taking a little time to get this posted, but life got kinda >> busy for me the last couple weeks. In any case, I've posted a first >> draft of the proposal. It is a rather simple change that removes the >> date window restriction from the original text. I've added it as a >> reply to the original poll posted on the ayaforum site. >> >> http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?p=758 >> >> Feel free to take a look, post comments or suggestions. I'd like to >> get this wrapped up so we can get it submitted to the AYA Secretary >> reasonably soon, so post replies to the forum topic or shoot me an >> e-mail with suggestions. >> >> Cheers, >> -Mike >> ------ >> Michael Boyd >> '76 AA5A >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Roberts <aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com>
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09
Date: Aug 15, 2009
One year I took a two week vacation to TX over the Christmas and New Years weeks. One week in Brownsville and one in Corpus Christi. One of the best v acation and holiday weeks I've ever had. Can't think of a better way to spe nd with my Grumman family too. Gee don't teachers have off work over Christ mas too?... Steve Roberts AA1B - 641HY @ ILG AYA Region 2 Director/Forum Admin We shall not cease from exploration. And at the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive were we started And know the place for the first time - T. S. Eliot > Date: Fri=2C 14 Aug 2009 19:23:21 -0400 > From: pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/1 3/09 > th.net> > > Just MHO=2C but it seems that a winter gathering in the south would be > popular ..... at least it seems that way ..... I see NY=2C NJ=2C OHIO ... . > license plates in FL! > Linn > > Richard Mutzman wrote: > > Looks good to me. > > > > The only comment might be that the Board and possibly the membership=2C > > might prefer a window that does not include the winter months=2C so an > > April-Oct might be better than a wide open window. Of course the Board > > always has the right to disapprove a particular date and/or location. > > > > Richard > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
Subject: Cowling update
Date: Aug 15, 2009
That's fantastic Gary, congratulations. The FAA shouldn't make it that hard. Best, Jamey -----Original Message----- From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G Vogt Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 3:22 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update The STC was signed off today. It only took 9 years and $135,000 from concept to signature. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 13, 2009, at 4:56 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > > > No suggestions .... looks really good. Can't get much simpler than > that change!!! > Linn > > Mike Boyd wrote: >> >> Hello Everyone, >> >> Sorry for taking a little time to get this posted, but life got kinda >> busy for me the last couple weeks. In any case, I've posted a first >> draft of the proposal. It is a rather simple change that removes the >> date window restriction from the original text. I've added it as a >> reply to the original poll posted on the ayaforum site. >> >> http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?p=758 >> >> Feel free to take a look, post comments or suggestions. I'd like to >> get this wrapped up so we can get it submitted to the AYA Secretary >> reasonably soon, so post replies to the forum topic or shoot me an >> e-mail with suggestions. >> >> Cheers, >> -Mike >> ------ >> Michael Boyd >> '76 AA5A >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06:10:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: G Vogt <teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cowling update
Date: Aug 15, 2009
Just think, I get to do more dive tests for the new wheel pants. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 15, 2009, at 9:39 AM, "James Courtney" wrote: > > > > That's fantastic Gary, congratulations. The FAA shouldn't make it > that > hard. > > Best, > > Jamey > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G > Vogt > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 3:22 PM > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update > > > The STC was signed off today. > > It only took 9 years and $135,000 from concept to signature. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 13, 2009, at 4:56 PM, Linn Walters > wrote: > > >> >> >> No suggestions .... looks really good. Can't get much simpler than >> that change!!! >> Linn >> >> Mike Boyd wrote: >>> >>> Hello Everyone, >>> >>> Sorry for taking a little time to get this posted, but life got >>> kinda >>> busy for me the last couple weeks. In any case, I've posted a first >>> draft of the proposal. It is a rather simple change that removes >>> the >>> date window restriction from the original text. I've added it as a >>> reply to the original poll posted on the ayaforum site. >>> >>> http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?p=758 >>> >>> Feel free to take a look, post comments or suggestions. I'd like to >>> get this wrapped up so we can get it submitted to the AYA Secretary >>> reasonably soon, so post replies to the forum topic or shoot me an >>> e-mail with suggestions. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> -Mike >>> ------ >>> Michael Boyd >>> '76 AA5A >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 06:10:00 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: G Vogt <teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09
Date: Aug 15, 2009
Might want to stay away from the South during hurricane season. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 14, 2009, at 5:23 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > > > > Just MHO, but it seems that a winter gathering in the south would be > popular ..... at least it seems that way ..... I see NY, NJ, > OHIO .... license plates in FL! > Linn > > Richard Mutzman wrote: >> Looks good to me. The only comment might be that the Board and >> possibly the membership, might prefer a window that does not >> include the winter months, so an April-Oct might be better than a >> wide open window. Of course the Board always has the right to >> disapprove a particular date and/or location. >> Richard > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2009
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09
I've lived in FL for 42 years now, and I've had two hurricanes in that time. Those two hurricanes (5 years ago)damaged some airplanes because they didn't immobilize the control surfaces. We also get plenty of warning when they're coming .... unlike tornadoes that frequent other parts of the country. Oh yeah .... we do have tornadoes too, but they only hit trailer parks!!! Linn G Vogt wrote: > > Might want to stay away from the South during hurricane season. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 14, 2009, at 5:23 PM, Linn Walters > wrote: > >> >> >> Just MHO, but it seems that a winter gathering in the south would be >> popular ..... at least it seems that way ..... I see NY, NJ, OHIO .... >> license plates in FL! >> Linn >> >> Richard Mutzman wrote: >>> Looks good to me. The only comment might be that the Board and >>> possibly the membership, might prefer a window that does not include >>> the winter months, so an April-Oct might be better than a wide open >>> window. Of course the Board always has the right to disapprove a >>> particular date and/or location. >>> Richard >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Roberts <aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com>
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09
Date: Aug 15, 2009
Awwww man=2C I was hoping to come to FL and visit in my popup camper. I gue ss it would be a bad idea since it is that dreaded season then huh? Steve Roberts AA1B - 641HY @ ILG AYA Region 2 Director/Forum Admin We shall not cease from exploration. And at the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive were we started And know the place for the first time - T. S. Eliot > Date: Sat=2C 15 Aug 2009 12:36:08 -0400 > From: pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/1 3/09 > th.net> > > I've lived in FL for 42 years now=2C and I've had two hurricanes in that > time. Those two hurricanes (5 years ago)damaged some airplanes because > they didn't immobilize the control surfaces. We also get plenty of > warning when they're coming .... unlike tornadoes that frequent other > parts of the country. Oh yeah .... we do have tornadoes too=2C but they > only hit trailer parks!!! > Linn > > > G Vogt wrote: > > > > Might want to stay away from the South during hurricane season. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Aug 14=2C 2009=2C at 5:23 PM=2C Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth. net> > > wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> Just MHO=2C but it seems that a winter gathering in the south would be > >> popular ..... at least it seems that way ..... I see NY=2C NJ=2C OHIO .... > >> license plates in FL! > >> Linn > >> > >> Richard Mutzman wrote: > >>> Looks good to me. The only comment might be that the Board and > >>> possibly the membership=2C might prefer a window that does not includ e > >>> the winter months=2C so an April-Oct might be better than a wide open > >>> window. Of course the Board always has the right to disapprove a > >>> particular date and/or location. > >>> Richard > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2009
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: FL in the fall
C'mon down Steve! The pop-up is portable .... you just move 50 miles 'till the storm passes .... no big deal. The hurricane season is my favorite time to cruise the Caribbean ...... rates go way down!!! Linn Steve Roberts wrote: > Awwww man, I was hoping to come to FL and visit in my popup camper. I > guess it would be a bad idea since it is that dreaded season then huh? > > *Steve Roberts > AA1B - 641HY @ ILG > AYA Region 2 Director/Forum Admin > * > *We shall not cease from exploration. > And at the end of all our exploring > Will be to arrive were we started > And know the place for the first time - T. S. Eliot* > > > > > > Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:36:08 -0400 > > From: pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net > > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - > 08/13/09 > > > > > > > I've lived in FL for 42 years now, and I've had two hurricanes in that > > time. Those two hurricanes (5 years ago)damaged some airplanes because > > they didn't immobilize the control surfaces. We also get plenty of > > warning when they're coming .... unlike tornadoes that frequent other > > parts of the country. Oh yeah .... we do have tornadoes too, but they > > only hit trailer parks!!! > > Linn > > > > > > G Vogt wrote: > > > > > > Might want to stay away from the South during hurricane season. > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > On Aug 14, 2009, at 5:23 PM, Linn Walters > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> Just MHO, but it seems that a winter gathering in the south would be > > >> popular ..... at least it seems that way ..... I see NY, NJ, OHIO > .... > > >> license plates in FL! > > >> Linn > > >> > > >> Richard Mutzman wrote: > > >>> Looks good to me. The only comment might be that the Board and > > >>> possibly the membership, might prefer a window that does not include > > >>> the winter months, so an April-Oct might be better than a wide open > > >>> window. Of course the Board always has the right to disapprove a > > >>> particular date and/or location. > > >>> Richard > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Curry" <don.curry(at)inbox.com>
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09
Date: Aug 15, 2009
Steve, you have a popup camper you can pull behind your Trainer? How cool is that!! Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Roberts Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 1:11 PM Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09 Awwww man, I was hoping to come to FL and visit in my popup camper. I guess it would be a bad idea since it is that dreaded season then huh? Steve Roberts AA1B - 641HY @ ILG AYA Region 2 Director/Forum Admin We shall not cease from exploration. And at the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive were we started And know the place for the first time - T. S. Eliot > Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:36:08 -0400 > From: pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09 > > > I've lived in FL for 42 years now, and I've had two hurricanes in that > time. Those two hurricanes (5 years ago)damaged some airplanes because > they didn't immobilize the control surfaces. We also get plenty of > warning when they're coming .... unlike tornadoes that frequent other > parts of the country. Oh yeah .... we do have tornadoes too, but they > only hit trailer parks!!! > Linn > > > G Vogt wrote: > > > > Might want to stay away from the South during hurricane season. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Aug 14, 2009, at 5:23 PM, Linn Walters > > wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> Just MHO, but it seems that a winter gathering in the south would be > >> popular ..... at least it seems that way ..... I see NY, NJ, OHIO .... > >> license plates in FL! > >> Linn > >> > >> Richard Mutzman wrote: > >>> Looks good to me. The only comment might be that the Board and > >>> possibly the membership, might prefer a window that does not include > >>> the winter months, so an April-Oct might be better than a wide open > >>> window. Of course the Board always has the right to disapprove a > >>> particular date and/or location. > >>> Richard > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bruce Smith <haveblue1(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Cowling update
Date: Aug 15, 2009
You live for this adventure, don't you! lol Hey Gary, after the wheel pants, how about a carbon fiber propeller? Bruce Smith On Aug 15, 2009, at 11:48 AM, G Vogt wrote: > > Just think, I get to do more dive tests for the new wheel pants. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 15, 2009, at 9:39 AM, "James Courtney" > wrote: > >> > >> >> That's fantastic Gary, congratulations. The FAA shouldn't make it >> that >> hard. >> >> Best, >> >> Jamey >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G >> Vogt >> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 3:22 PM >> To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update >> >> >> The STC was signed off today. >> >> It only took 9 years and $135,000 from concept to signature. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 13, 2009, at 4:56 PM, Linn Walters >> wrote: >> >> >>> >>> >>> No suggestions .... looks really good. Can't get much simpler than >>> that change!!! >>> Linn >>> >>> Mike Boyd wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello Everyone, >>>> >>>> Sorry for taking a little time to get this posted, but life got >>>> kinda >>>> busy for me the last couple weeks. In any case, I've posted a >>>> first >>>> draft of the proposal. It is a rather simple change that removes >>>> the >>>> date window restriction from the original text. I've added it as a >>>> reply to the original poll posted on the ayaforum site. >>>> >>>> http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?p=758 >>>> >>>> Feel free to take a look, post comments or suggestions. I'd like >>>> to >>>> get this wrapped up so we can get it submitted to the AYA Secretary >>>> reasonably soon, so post replies to the forum topic or shoot me an >>>> e-mail with suggestions. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> -Mike >>>> ------ >>>> Michael Boyd >>>> '76 AA5A >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> 06:10:00 >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09
Date: Aug 16, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
any chance the St Simons Island can be moved closer to the end of May????? -----Original Message----- From: G Vogt <teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM> Sent: Sat, Aug 15, 2009 8:50 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09 ? Might want to stay away from the South during hurricane season.? ? Sent from my iPhone? ? On Aug 14, 2009, at 5:23 PM, Linn Walters wrote:? ? >? > Just MHO, but it seems that a winter gathering in the south would be > popular ..... at least it seems that way ..... I see NY, NJ, > OHIO .... license plates in FL!? > Linn? >? > Richard Mutzman wrote:? >> Looks good to me. The only comment might be that the Board and >> possibly the membership, might prefer a window that does not >> include the winter months, so an April-Oct might be better than a >> wide open window. Of course the Board always has the right to >> disapprove a particular date and/or location.? >> Richard? >? >? >? >? ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cowling update
Date: Aug 16, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Thanks Jamey, kinda makes you wish you kept your Tiger doesn't it. ?Just kidding -----Original Message----- From: G Vogt <teamgrumman(at)aol.com> Sent: Sat, Aug 15, 2009 8:48 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update ? Just think, I get to do more dive tests for the new wheel pants.? ? Sent from my iPhone? ? On Aug 15, 2009, at 9:39 AM, "James Courtney" wrote:? ? >? > That's fantastic Gary, congratulations. The FAA shouldn't make it > that? > hard.? >? > Best,? >? > Jamey? >? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com? > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G > Vogt? > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 3:22 PM? > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com? > Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update? >? >? > The STC was signed off today.? >? > It only took 9 years and $135,000 from concept to signature.? >? > Sent from my iPhone? >? > On Aug 13, 2009, at 4:56 PM, Linn Walters ? > wrote:? >? > >>? >>? >> No suggestions .... looks really good. Can't get much simpler than? >> that change!!!? >> Linn? >>? >> Mike Boyd wrote:? >>>? >>> Hello Everyone,? >>>? >>> Sorry for taking a little time to get this posted, but life got >>> kinda? >>> busy for me the last couple weeks. In any case, I've posted a first? >>> draft of the proposal. It is a rather simple change that removes >>> the? >>> date window restriction from the original text. I've added it as a? >>> reply to the original poll posted on the ayaforum site.? >>>? >>> http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?p=758? >>>? >>> Feel free to take a look, post comments or suggestions. I'd like to? >>> get this wrapped up so we can get it submitted to the AYA Secretary? >>> reasonably soon, so post replies to the forum topic or shoot me an? >>> e-mail with suggestions.? >>>? >>> Cheers,? >>> -Mike? >>> ------? >>> Michael Boyd? >>> '76 AA5A? >>>? >>>? >>>? >>>? >>>? >>>? >>? >>? >>? >>? >>? >? >? >? >? > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com? > 06:10:00? >? >? >? >? >? ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cowling update
Date: Aug 16, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
Carbon Fiber Propeller . . . . ?maybe. ?In conjunction with a 180 hp IO360. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Smith <haveblue1(at)mac.com> Sent: Sat, Aug 15, 2009 1:53 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update ? You live for this adventure, don't you! lol? ? Hey Gary, after the wheel pants, how about a carbon fiber propeller?? ? Bruce Smith? On Aug 15, 2009, at 11:48 AM, G Vogt wrote:? ? >? > Just think, I get to do more dive tests for the new wheel pants.? >? > Sent from my iPhone? >? > On Aug 15, 2009, at 9:39 AM, "James Courtney" > wrote:? >? >>? >> That's fantastic Gary, congratulations. The FAA shouldn't make it >> that? >> hard.? >>? >> Best,? >>? >> Jamey? >>? >>? >> -----Original Message-----? >> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com? >> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G >> Vogt? >> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 3:22 PM? >> To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com? >> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update? >>? >>? >> The STC was signed off today.? >>? >> It only took 9 years and $135,000 from concept to signature.? >>? >> Sent from my iPhone? >>? >> On Aug 13, 2009, at 4:56 PM, Linn Walters ? >> wrote:? >>? >> >>>? >>>? >>> No suggestions .... looks really good. Can't get much simpler than? >>> that change!!!? >>> Linn? >>>? >>> Mike Boyd wrote:? >>>>? >>>> Hello Everyone,? >>>>? >>>> Sorry for taking a little time to get this posted, but life got >>>> kinda? >>>> busy for me the last couple weeks. In any case, I've posted a >>>> first? >>>> draft of the proposal. It is a rather simple change that removes >>>> the? >>>> date window restriction from the original text. I've added it as a? >>>> reply to the original poll posted on the ayaforum site.? >>>>? >>>> http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?p=758? >>>>? >>>> Feel free to take a look, post comments or suggestions. I'd like >>>> to? >>>> get this wrapped up so we can get it submitted to the AYA Secretary? >>>> reasonably soon, so post replies to the forum topic or shoot me an? >>>> e-mail with suggestions.? >>>>? >>>> Cheers,? >>>> -Mike? >>>> ------? >>>> Michael Boyd? >>>> '76 AA5A? >>>>? >>>>? >>>>? >>>>? >>>>? >>>>? >>>? >>>? >>>? >>>? >>>? >>? >>? >>? >>? >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com? >> 06:10:00? >>? >>? >>? >>? >>? >? >? >? >? ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2009
Subject: Re: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09
From: Mike Boyd <mwboyd(at)gmail.com>
Hey guys, I'm just working on the proposed amendment, I'm not sure what would be involved with changing a specific convention proposal...other than to move it outside the current date range we will need to get the amendment approved by the board and then on a ballot and accepted by the membership as a whole. I guess at this point I'd check with a member of the board and the volunteers that put together a specific convention proposal. And remember that among other things, it is up to the volunteers that are devoting their time to the convention to come up with specific dates so I don't know if a change would be possible for an existing, specific proposal. Of course, all of this still hinges on the process described above (getting the amendment approved). Sorry I don't know more, -Mike ------ Michael Boyd '76 AA5A On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 5:04 PM, wrote: > any chance the St Simons Island can be moved closer to the end of May????? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: G Vogt <teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM> > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sat, Aug 15, 2009 8:50 am > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - > 08/13/09 > > > Might want to stay away from the South during hurricane season. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 14, 2009, at 5:23 PM, Linn Walters > wrote: > >> > >> >> Just MHO, but it seems that a winter gathering in the south would be > >> popular ..... at least it seems that way ..... I see NY, NJ, > OHIO .... >> license plates in FL! >> Linn >> >> Richard Mutzman wrote: >>> Looks good to me. The only comment might be that the Board and >> >>> possibly the membership, might prefer a window that does not >> include the >>> winter months, so an April-Oct might be better than a >> wide open window. >>> Of course the Board always has the right to >> disapprove a particular date >>> and/or location. >>> Richard ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09
Date: Aug 16, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Hi Mike, The only reason I asked about moving the SSI Convention earlier is: This weekend I met a couple from South Carolina. ?They both have family in Georgia. ?I told them about the SSI Convention and at first they were enthusiastic. Then I said, "It's usually in the middle of July." ?The both said, "Are you nuts? ?July is the worst time to be there. ?Between the heat and the humidity, it won't be much fun." I did a quick check on the average temps and late May looks good. ?It even works even for those waiting for the summer off. ? Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <allenc3(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09
Date: Aug 17, 2009
You are right about that. I live about 60 miles south of St. Simons, and I can tell you that if the convention would have been this year, maybe ten people would have made it. We have had nothing but rain and heat since early July this year averaging about 95 degrees and 90% humidity daily. Now the hurricanes are starting to bloom. My idea was to have the St. Simons convention in mid April, a day or two after Sun n Fun then you could make both events. The weather here in April is almost perfect. Claude From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 11:01 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09 Hi Mike, The only reason I asked about moving the SSI Convention earlier is: This weekend I met a couple from South Carolina. They both have family in Georgia. I told them about the SSI Convention and at first they were enthusiastic. Then I said, "It's usually in the middle of July." The both said, "Are you nuts? July is the worst time to be there. Between the heat and the humidity, it won't be much fun." I did a quick check on the average temps and late May looks good. It even works even for those waiting for the summer off. Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
Subject: Cowling update
Date: Aug 17, 2009
Admittedly no, I'm loving the A36 but the Tiger was a lot of fun and a great plane. I did see a very sad looking Cheetah at Barber Aviation in Madera where they work on my Bonanza (had to comply with the ridiculous circuit breaker AD last week). They were chasing some starter issues with the top cowl off the cheetah. I can't remember seeing a sadder set of baffles. Amazing what some owners will just overlook. Barber is a good shop but Bonanza's are more their specialty and I doubt they'll push the Cheetah owner to clean that stuff up as it should be. Too bad. Best, Jamey From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 4:03 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update Thanks Jamey, kinda makes you wish you kept your Tiger doesn't it. Just kidding -----Original Message----- From: G Vogt <teamgrumman(at)aol.com> Sent: Sat, Aug 15, 2009 8:48 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update Just think, I get to do more dive tests for the new wheel pants. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 15, 2009, at 9:39 AM, "James Courtney" wrote: > > > That's fantastic Gary, congratulations. The FAA shouldn't make it > that > hard. > > Best, > > Jamey > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of G > Vogt > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 3:22 PM > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update > > > The STC was signed off today. > > It only took 9 years and $135,000 from concept to signature. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 13, 2009, at 4:56 PM, Linn Walters > wrote: > > >> >> >> No suggestions .... looks really good. Can't get much simpler than >> that change!!! >> Linn >> >> Mike Boyd wrote: >>> >>> Hello Everyone, >>> >>> Sorry for taking a little time to get this posted, but life got >>> kinda >>> busy for me the last couple weeks. In any case, I've posted a first >>> draft of the proposal. It is a rather simple change that removes >>> the >>> date window restriction from the original text. I've added it as a >>> reply to the original poll posted on the ayaforum site. >>> >>> http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?p=758 >>> >>> Feel free to take a look, post comments or suggestions. I'd like to >>> get this wrapped up so we can get it submitted to the AYA Secretary >>> reasonably soon, so post replies to the forum topic or shoot me an >>> e-mail with suggestions. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> -Mike >>> ------ >>> Michael Boyd >>> '76 AA5A >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 06:10:00 > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06:09:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09
Date: Aug 17, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
OK, I elect you to decide when the convention will bee. ?April is just perfect for me. ? ? I went to West Palm for a conference at Pratt & Whitney in July and thought I'd never get cool enough. -----Original Message----- From: allenc3(at)bellsouth.net Sent: Sun, Aug 16, 2009 11:01 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09 You are right about that. I live about 60 miles south of St. Simons, and I can tell you that if the convention would have been this year, maybe ten people would have made it. We have had nothing but rain and heat since early July this year averaging about 95 degrees and 90% humidity daily. Now the hurricanes are starting to bloom. ? My idea was to have the St. Simons convention in mid April, a day or two after Sun n Fun then you could make?both events.?The weather here in April is almost perfect. ? Claude ? From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 11:01 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/13/09 Hi Mike, The only reason I asked about moving the SSI Convention earlier is: This weekend I met a couple from South Carolina. ?They both have family in Georgia. ?I told them about the SSI Convention and at first they were enthusiastic. Then I said, "It's usually in the middle of July." ?The both said, "Are you nuts? ?July is the worst time to be there. ?Between the heat and the humidity, it won't be much fun." I did a quick check on the average temps and late May looks good. ?It even works even for those waiting for the summer off. ? Gary href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cowling update
Date: Aug 17, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
Send him up here. =C2-I need the work. -----Original Message----- From: James Courtney <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 12:13 am Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update Admittedly no, I=99m loving the A36 but the Tiger was a lot of fun and a great plane.=C2- I did see a very sad looking Cheetah at Ba rber Aviation in Madera where they work on my Bonanza (had to comply with the ridiculous circuit breaker AD last week).=C2- They were chasing some starter issues with the top cowl off the cheetah.=C2- I can=99t remember seeing a sadd er set of baffles.=C2- Amazing what some owners will just overlook.=C2- Barbe r is a good shop but Bonanza=99s are more their specialty and I doubt the y=99ll push the Cheetah owner to clean that stuff up as it should be.=C2- Too bad =C2- Best, =C2- Jamey =C2- =C2- From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrum man(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 4:03 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update =C2- Thanks Jamey, kinda makes you wish you kept your Tiger doesn't it. =C2-Just kidding -----Original Message----- From: G Vogt <teamgrumman(at)aol.com> Sent: Sat, Aug 15, 2009 8:48 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List : Cowling update --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: G Vogt =C2- =C2- Just think, I get to do more dive tests for the new wheel pants.=C2- =C2- Sent from my iPhone=C2- =C2- On Aug 15, 2009, at 9:39 AM, "James Courtney" wrote:=C2- =C2- rtney.net> >=C2- >=C2- > That's fantastic Gary, congratulations. The FAA shouldn't make it > that=C2- > hard.=C2- >=C2- > Best,=C2- >=C2- > Jamey=C2- >=C2- >=C2- > -----Original Message-----=C2- > From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com=C2- > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G > Vogt=C2- > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 3:22 PM=C2- > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com=C2- > Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update=C2- >=C2- - >=C2- > The STC was signed off today.=C2- >=C2- > It only took 9 years and $135,000 from concept to signature.=C2- >=C2- > Sent from my iPhone=C2- >=C2- > On Aug 13, 2009, at 4:56 PM, Linn Walters =C2 - > wrote:=C2- >=C2- > >>=C2- >>=C2- >> No suggestions .... looks really good. Can't get much simpler than=C2- >> that change!!!=C2- >> Linn=C2- >>=C2- >> Mike Boyd wrote:=C2- >>> --> TeamG rumman-List message posted by: Mike Boyd =C2- >>>=C2- >>> Hello Everyone,=C2- >>>=C2- >>> Sorry for taking a little time to get this posted, but life got >>> kinda=C2- >>> busy for me the last couple weeks. In any case, I've posted a first=C2- >>> draft of the proposal. It is a rather simple change that removes >>> the=C2- >>> date window restriction from the original text. I've added it as a=C2- >>> reply to the original poll posted on the ayaforum site.=C2- >>>=C2- >>> http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?p=758=C2- >>>=C2- >>> Feel free to take a look, post comments or suggestions. I'd like to=C2- >>> get this wrapped up so we can get it submitted to the AYA Secretary=C2- >>> reasonably soon, so post replies to the forum topic or shoot me an=C2- >>> e-mail with suggestions.=C2- >>>=C2- >>> Cheers,=C2- >>> -Mike=C2- >>> ------=C2- >>> Michael Boyd=C2- >>> '76 AA5A=C2- >>>=C2- >>>=C2- >>>=C2- >>>=C2- >>>=C2- >>>=C2- >>=C2- >>=C2- >>=C2- >>=C2- >>=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=C2- > 06:10:00=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 08/16/09 06:09:00 ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Metal-to-Metal bonding
Date: Aug 17, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Bob, I watched elsewhere and seen your input on various bonding agents. ?What do you know about Hysol 9330? ?I've got approval to do a horizontal repair with it. ?I also have designed new vertical braces which are larger and designed more like the bulkhead just forward of the Horizontal. ?The horizontal brace (against the bottom of the fuselage) is designed more like a bridge truss. ?Based on calcs, the braces are designed to fail after the bonded joint fails, about 6000 psi. ? It'll be interesting to see when it's done. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2009
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Metal-to-Metal bonding
Gary, I got DER approval (from a Fletchair recommended guy) for Hysol 1 C for a horizontal spar repair. http://www.tedpella.com/technote_html/891-60%20TN.pdf It's shear strength is much less than the 6000 psi you mention - nearer 1500 psi. Is the 6000 lbs. the total force? Has the area of the joint been taken into account? gil A At 09:33 AM 8/17/2009, you wrote: >Bob, I watched elsewhere and seen your input on various bonding >agents. What do you know about Hysol 9330? I've got approval to do >a horizontal repair with it. I also have designed new vertical >braces which are larger and designed more like the bulkhead just >forward of the Horizontal. The horizontal brace (against the bottom >of the fuselage) is designed more like a bridge truss. Based on >calcs, the braces are designed to fail after the bonded joint fails, >about 6000 psi. It'll be interesting to see when it's done. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Metal-to-Metal bonding
Date: Aug 19, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
Bob, no words of wisdom? -----Original Message----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:33 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Metal-to-Metal bonding Bob, I watched elsewhere and seen your input on various bonding agents. ?What do you know about Hysol 9330? ?I've got approval to do a horizontal repair with it. ?I also have designed new vertical braces which are larger and designed more like the bulkhead just forward of the Horizontal. ?The horizontal brace (against the bottom of the fuselage) is designed more like a bridge truss. ?Based on calcs, the braces are designed to fail after the bonded joint fails, about 6000 psi. ? It'll be interesting to see when it's done. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2009
Subject: AYA Convention Dates - Call to Action.
From: Mike Boyd <mwboyd(at)gmail.com>
Hello Everyone, Hopefully this will be the last time you are hearing from me about this subject. And for those that are sick of the subject, I apologize. I have taken the comments that were provided and written the formal request for the amendment to the AYA constitution to remove the date restriction. The text of the letter can be found at the end of the original AYAForum topc here: http://ayaforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=185 A signed hard-copy will be mailed to our Secretary-Treasurer in accordance with the guidelines spelled out in the AYA constitution. Now, it's your turn. I've included reference to the poll in the letter, but it is by far the best if the board hears directly from it's membership. So, please take a moment and contact your regional director and/or other board members and let them know how you feel about the idea. You should be able to find contact information for them on the aya.org site. If you have troubles getting contact information, please let me know and I will do what I can to assist. For your reference, here is the process, from the current AYA constitution as published on the aya.org site: --- Amendments: Requests for an amendment to this Constitution may be submitted in writing to the Secretary-Treasurer. The Secretary-Treasurer will send a copy of the proposal to the President and retain the original. The President shall then submit copies to the Board of Directors for consideration and a signature vote. The Board shall then submit their vote to the Secretary-Treasurer and another to the President. If the Board of Directors approves by a 60% majority, the President shall then submit the amendment to the Editor for immediate publication in the STAR for comment. It shall then be voted upon by the membership at the same time as the election of officers, and shall become a part of this Constitution if approved by a 60% majority of those members voting. A Special Election and/or ballot may be run at any time if a 60% majority of the Board deems it necessary. The President shall submit the proposal for publication in the STAR and call for a vote. Votes shall be mailed to the Secretary-Treasurer and shall become a part of this Constitution if approved by a 60% majority of those members voting. --- So, here is your chance. Let the board know that you want to vote on the matter. Clear skies and tail winds, -Mike ------ Michael Boyd '76 AA5A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2009
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: [Fwd: RV-List: Last call for free GNS-430W upgrade]
This was posted on my RV list ..... FYI. Linn --> RV-List message posted by: "SteinAir, Inc." Hi all, In case anyone missed it, I thought I'd post this one last time. If you have a NEW in the box NON WAAS 430, or a NEVER FLOWN 430 NON WAAS, we'll trade you right now for a brand spankin new 430W. The unit has to have zero flight hours on it, no repairs from Garmin (never sent back). It can be installed, just not flown. If you have such a unit, please get hold of me asap and we'll trade you out! Cheers, Stein _________________________________________ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [Fwd: RV-List: Last call for free GNS-430W upgrade
Date: Aug 26, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
An installed and never flown 430. ?That would be a first. -----Original Message----- From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2009 7:58 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: [Fwd: RV-List: Last call for free GNS-430W upgrade] ? This was posted on my RV list ..... FYI.? Linn? ? --> RV-List message posted by: "SteinAir, Inc." ? ? Hi all,? ? In case anyone missed it, I thought I'd post this one last time. If you have? a NEW in the box NON WAAS 430, or a NEVER FLOWN 430 NON WAAS, we'll trade? you right now for a brand spankin new 430W. The unit has to have zero flight? hours on it, no repairs from Garmin (never sent back). It can be installed,? just not flown.? ? If you have such a unit, please get hold of me asap and we'll trade you out!? ? Cheers,? Stein? ? _________________________________________? The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to? which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged? material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or? taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or? entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive? this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any? computer.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ned Thomas <923te(at)att.net>
Subject: Air Sea Rescue
Date: Sep 08, 2009
Gary, Dad says he was in the 2nd air rescue service flying SB29's out of Kadena Okinawa 1951-52 He asks what you were flying, choppers? And what unit? Ned Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tach accuracy
Date: Sep 09, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Is there a regulation, FAR, saying the tach cannot be placarded and must be replaced if the tach is more than 150 rpm wrong? ?I can't find it if there is one. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Lincoln Skyways
Date: Sep 09, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Has anyone ever heard of Lincoln Skyways as a Grumman expert? ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: oil filler door.
Date: Sep 09, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
Lincoln is saying the oil filler door hinge (hinge is sloppy, it shuts and locks tight but it's worn) is an airworthiness issue and wants to charge a seller (customer of mine) $200 to fix it. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Air Sea Rescue
Date: Sep 09, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
I worked on HH-53s, HC-130s, during my tour in Thailand -----Original Message----- From: Ned Thomas <923te(at)att.net> Sent: Tue, Sep 8, 2009 10:52 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue ? Gary,? ? Dad says he was in the 2nd air rescue service flying SB29's out of Kadena Okinawa 1951-52? ? He asks what you were flying, choppers?? ? And what unit?? ? Ned? ? Sent from my iPhone? ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 2009
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Tach accuracy
Gary, I don't think so, since this came from AC 20-37D AIRCRAFT METAL PROPELLER MAINTENANCE on care of metal props - note the bit on no post-manufacture accuracy. It might be hidden in the SAE standard referenced by TSO C94 for tachometers, but the SAE has deemed it necessary to charge $$ for all of their documents. ...but this really old FAA TSO gives the original 1954 accuracy as 25 rpm at room temp.... http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/0/985307e8eb1b9a1986256e930061198b/$FILE/c49.pdf The link above is to the TSO and also to SAE AS404A This SAE $$ document is now at rev. C - but, like the text below says, no post-manufacture stuff is probably in rev C.... I seem to remember the 150 rpm from one of the FAA Mechanics AC books, but I can't presently find it - but it was not a FAR -- gil A -------------------- AC 20-37D text extract ------------- 8. TACHOMETER INSPECTION. Due to the exceptionally high stresses that may be generated by particular propeller/engine combinations at certain engine revolutions per minute (RPM), many propeller and aircraft manufacturers have established areas of RPM restrictions and other restrictions on maximum RPM for some models. Some RPM limits have never exceed values as close as 3 percent of the maximum RPM permitted, and a slow-running tachometer can cause an engine to run past the maximum RPM limits. Since there are no post-manufacture accuracy requirements for engine tachometers, tachometer inaccuracy could be a direct cause of propeller failure, excessive vibration, or unscheduled maintenance. Tachometer accuracy should always be checked during normal maintenance intervals or sooner if indicators such as excessive vibration or aircraft performance changes might indicate inaccurate RPM readings. --------------------------- At 12:01 AM 9/9/2009, teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote: >Is there a regulation, FAR, saying the tach cannot be placarded and >must be replaced if the tach is more than 150 rpm wrong? I can't >find it if there is one. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Air Sea Rescue
Date: Sep 09, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
I forgot to add, I was stationed with the 56th Air Rescue and Recovery Sqdn and later the 40th ARRS in Korat and NKP Thailand. -----Original Message----- From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 12:14 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue I worked on HH-53s, HC-130s, during my tour in Thailand -----Original Message----- From: Ned Thomas <923te(at)att.net> Sent: Tue, Sep 8, 2009 10:52 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue ? Gary,? ? Dad says he was in the 2nd air rescue service flying SB29's out of Kadena Okinawa 1951-52? ? He asks what you were flying, choppers?? ? And what unit?? ? Ned? ? Sent from my iPhone? ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tach accuracy
Date: Sep 09, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
I couldn't find anything either. ?The buyer wants a new one not realizing it is probably 100 rpm wrong to begin with. -----Original Message----- From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 8:29 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy ? Gary,? ? I don't think so, since this came from? AC 20-37D AIRCRAFT METAL PROPELLER MAINTENANCE? on care of metal props - note the bit on no post-manufacture accuracy.? ? It might be hidden in the SAE standard referenced by TSO C94 for tachometers, but the SAE has deemed it necessary to charge $$ for all of their documents.? ? ...but this really old FAA TSO gives the original 1954 accuracy as 25 rpm at room temp....? ? http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/0/985307e8eb1b9a1986256e930061198b/$FILE/c49.pdf? ? The link above is to the TSO and also to SAE AS404A? ? This SAE $$ document is now at rev. C - but, like the text below says, no post-manufacture stuff is probably in rev C....? ? I seem to remember the 150 rpm from one of the FAA Mechanics AC books, but I can't presently find it - but it was not a FAR --? ? gil A? ? -------------------- AC 20-37D text extract -------------? ? 8. TACHOMETER INSPECTION.? Due to the exceptionally high stresses that may be generated by particular propeller/engine? combinations at certain engine revolutions per minute (RPM), many propeller and aircraft? manufacturers have established areas of RPM restrictions and other restrictions on maximum? RPM for some models. Some RPM limits have never exceed values as close as 3 percent of the? maximum RPM permitted, and a slow-running tachometer can cause an engine to run past the? maximum RPM limits. Since there are no post-manufacture accuracy requirements for engine? tachometers, tachometer inaccuracy could be a direct cause of propeller failure, excessive? vibration, or unscheduled maintenance. Tachometer accuracy should always be checked during? normal maintenance intervals or sooner if indicators such as excessive vibration or aircraft? performance changes might indicate inaccurate RPM readings.? ? ---------------------------? ? ? ? At 12:01 AM 9/9/2009, teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote:? >Is there a regulation, FAR, saying the tach cannot be placarded and >must be replaced if the tach is more than 150 rpm wrong? I can't >find it if there is one.? ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 2009
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Tach accuracy
Yep... I sent my mechanical one for overhaul because it was about 125 rpm out, It came back with the same error...:^) The airpark pilots tell me that the local Tucson speedometer shop can re-calibrate it without telling the FAA, but I bought a digital one instead. The old one went on e-bay for $50.... gil A At 01:58 PM 9/9/2009, you wrote: >I couldn't find anything either. The buyer wants a new one not >realizing it is probably 100 rpm wrong to begin with. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> >To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 8:29 am >Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy > ><gilalex(at)earthlink.net> > >Gary, > >I don't think so, since this came from >AC 20-37D AIRCRAFT METAL PROPELLER MAINTENANCE >on care of metal props - note the bit on no post-manufacture accuracy. > >It might be hidden in the SAE standard referenced by TSO C94 for >tachometers, but the SAE has deemed it necessary to charge $$ for >all of their documents. > >...but this really old FAA TSO gives the original 1954 accuracy as >25 rpm at room temp.... > ><http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/0/985307e8eb1b9a1986256e930061198b/$FILE/c49.pdf>http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/0/985307e8eb1b9a1986256e930061198b/$FILE/c49.pdf > > >The link above is to the TSO and also to SAE AS404A > >This SAE $$ document is now at rev. C - but, like the text below >says, no post-manufacture stuff is probably in rev C.... > >I seem to remember the 150 rpm from one of the FAA Mechanics AC >books, but I can't presently find it - but it was not a FAR -- > >gil A > >-------------------- AC 20-37D text extract ------------- > >8. TACHOMETER INSPECTION. >Due to the exceptionally high stresses that may be generated by >particular propeller/engine >combinations at certain engine revolutions per minute (RPM), many >propeller and aircraft >manufacturers have established areas of RPM restrictions and other >restrictions on maximum >RPM for some models. Some RPM limits have never exceed values as >close as 3 percent of the >maximum RPM permitted, and a slow-running tachometer can cause an >engine to run past the >maximum RPM limits. Since there are no post-manufacture accuracy >requirements for engine >tachometers, tachometer inaccuracy could be a direct cause of >propeller failure, excessive >vibration, or unscheduled maintenance. Tachometer accuracy should >always be checked during >normal maintenance intervals or sooner if indicators such as >excessive vibration or aircraft >performance changes might indicate inaccurate RPM readings. > >--------------------------- > > >At 12:01 AM 9/9/2009, teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote: > >Is there a regulation, FAR, saying the tach cannot be placarded > and >must be replaced if the tach is more than 150 rpm wrong? I > can't >find it if there is one. > > ><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 2009
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Tach accuracy
Century Instruments IIRC - the problem is that they can't legally overhaul it, they can just inspect and repaint the dial. Something to do with not having the full data from Stewart Warner. The speedometer shop fairies might do better....:^) gil A At 06:01 PM 9/9/2009, you wrote: >Gil: Recently discovered that I have an Tach accuracy problem, was >referred to a shop in Houston. But, was warned about overhaul >problems with numerous shops around the country..so, will probably >go with a new mechanical Tach with a warranty. Who overhauled your Tach? >Thanks, >Roger > >Roger Rucker >AA5A '78 HWO > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> >To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 8:33 pm >Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy > >Yep... I sent my mechanical one for overhaul because it was about >125 rpm out, It came back with the same error...:^) > >The airpark pilots tell me that the local Tucson speedometer shop >can re-calibrate it without telling the FAA, but I bought a digital >one instead. > >The old one went on e-bay for $50.... gil A > >At 01:58 PM 9/9/2009, you wrote: >>I couldn't find anything either. The buyer wants a new one not >>realizing it is probably 100 rpm wrong to begin with. >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Gil Alexander <<mailto:gilalex(at)earthlink.net>gilalex(at)earthlink.net> >>To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com >>Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 8:29 am >>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy >> >><gilalex(at)earthlink.net> >> >>Gary, >> >>I don't think so, since this came from >>AC 20-37D AIRCRAFT METAL PROPELLER MAINTENANCE >>on care of metal props - note the bit on no post-manufacture accuracy. >> >>It might be hidden in the SAE standard referenced by TSO C94 for >>tachometers, but the SAE has deemed it necessary to charge $$ for >>all of their documents. >> >>...but this really old FAA TSO gives the original 1954 accuracy as >>25 rpm at room temp.... >> >><http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/0/985307e8eb1b9a1986256e930061198b/$FILE/c49.pdf>http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/0/985307e8eb1b9a1986256e930061198b/$FILE/c49.pdf >> >> >>The link above is to the TSO and also to SAE AS404A >> >>This SAE $$ document is now at rev. C - but, like the text below >>says, no post-manufacture stuff is probably in rev C.... >> >>I seem to remember the 150 rpm from one of the FAA Mechanics AC >>books, but I can't presently find it - but it was not a FAR -- >> >>gil A >> >>-------------------- AC 20-37D text extract ------------- >> >>8. TACHOMETER INSPECTION. >>Due to the exceptionally high stresses that may be generated by >>particular propeller/engine >>combinations at certain engine revolutions per minute (RPM), many >>propeller and aircraft >>manufacturers have established areas of RPM restrictions and other >>restrictions on maximum >>RPM for some models. Some RPM limits have never exceed values as >>close as 3 percent of the >>maximum RPM permitted, and a slow-running tachometer can cause an >>engine to run past the >>maximum RPM limits. Since there are no post-manufacture accuracy >>requirements for engine >>tachometers, tachometer inaccuracy could be a direct cause of >>propeller failure, excessive >>vibration, or unscheduled maintenance. Tachometer accuracy should >>always be checked during >>normal maintenance intervals or sooner if indicators such as >>excessive vibration or aircraft >>performance changes might indicate inaccurate RPM readings. >> >>--------------------------- >> >> >> >>At 12:01 AM 9/9/2009, teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote: >> >Is there a regulation, FAR, saying the tach cannot be placarded >> and >must be replaced if the tach is more than 150 rpm wrong? I >> can't >find it if there is one. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - >> >>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List >>- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >><http://forums.matronics.com/>http://forums.matronics.com >>- List Contribution Web Site - >>-Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> >>http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > ><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lincoln Skyways
From: "cwleach" <corl(at)aya.org>
Date: Sep 09, 2009
In regards to what, Gary? Grumman made a mighty fine line of canoes and even RVs at one time. Personally, I wouldn't worry about there being true make/model competition in your area ... but I certainly wouldn't hesitate having them work on my plane when the task is relatively generic such as replacing a failed magneto or starter ... not that I'd know anything about that! :-) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262377#262377 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: oil filler door.
Date: Sep 10, 2009
From: n32romeo(at)AOL.com
I landed at College Park outside of DC in '85.? The line boy came out and said "you have a hole in your cowl".? The oil check door was gone.? It was evident that the hinge pin failed.? The FBO A&P and I fabricated a new door, which is still on the plane. Rich Harrison N1632Romeo Dog is my Co-Pilot "Grumman" -----Original Message----- From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 12:06 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: oil filler door. Lincoln is saying the oil filler door hinge (hinge is sloppy, it shuts and locks tight but it's worn) is an airworthiness issue and wants to charge a seller (customer of mine) $200 to fix it. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 2009
From: Doug Ilg <doug.ilg(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: oil filler door.
Rich,=0A=0AYou were lucky to have gotten good service at College Park in th ose days.- The guy that ran that shop (a well-known local traffic reporte r) ended up becoming notorious for bad business practices.- We got rid of him in the-late 90s.- Since 9/11, of course, we have no real FBO at al l.- Just fuel.- =0A-=0ADoug Ilg=0AGrumman Tiger N74818, College Park-Airport (KCGS), Maryland=0AChallenger II LSS (N641LG-reserved)- - kit underway at Laurel Suburban (W18)=0A=0AFrom: "n32romeo(at)aol.com" <n32r omeo(at)aol.com>=0A>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: oil filler door.=0A>=0A>=0A >I landed at College Park outside of DC in '85.- The line boy came out an d said "you have a hole in your cowl".- The oil check door was gone.- I t was evident that the hinge pin failed.- The FBO A&P and I fabricated a new door, which is still on the plane. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject: Re: Tach accuracy
Date: Sep 10, 2009
I gave up on mechanical tachs years ago. If you really want to know what y our RPM is (accurately) there is no substitute. If you want to evaluate pe rformance changes or whether or not you have the prop pitched the way you w ant it or not an electronic digital readout tach is essential. For instanc e what improvement in static rpm and full throttle rpm do you get with the addition of a Power Flow exhaust or HC pistons in a Cheetah. How does full throttle rpm change with altitude and other similar questions you many wan t answers to. It amazes me sometimes that people don't mind spending $10K on a new Garmin 430W installation but they won't spend an extra $200 to buy an electronic tach over a mechanical one! Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: Gil Alexander To: n26390(at)aol.com ; teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 8:16 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy Century Instruments IIRC - the problem is that they can't legally overhau l it, they can just inspect and repaint the dial. Something to do with not having the full data from Stewart Warner. The speedometer shop fairies might do better....:^) gil A At 06:01 PM 9/9/2009, you wrote: Gil: Recently discovered that I have an Tach accuracy problem, was ref erred to a shop in Houston. But, was warned about overhaul problems with n umerous shops around the country..so, will probably go with a new mechanica l Tach with a warranty. Who overhauled your Tach=3F Thanks, Roger Roger Rucker AA5A '78 HWO -----Original Message----- From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 8:33 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy Yep... I sent my mechanical one for overhaul because it was about 125 r pm out, It came back with the same error...:^) The airpark pilots tell me that the local Tucson speedometer shop can r e-calibrate it without telling the FAA, but I bought a digital one instead. The old one went on e-bay for $50.... gil A At 01:58 PM 9/9/2009, you wrote: I couldn't find anything either. The buyer wants a new one not reali zing it is probably 100 rpm wrong to begin with. -----Original Message----- From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 8:29 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy ink.net> Gary, I don't think so, since this came from AC 20-37D AIRCRAFT METAL PROPELLER MAINTENANCE on care of metal props - note the bit on no post-manufacture accuracy . It might be hidden in the SAE standard referenced by TSO C94 for tach ometers, but the SAE has deemed it necessary to charge $$ for all of their documents. ...but this really old FAA TSO gives the original 1954 accuracy as 25 rpm at room temp.... http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory=5Fand=5FGuidance=5FLibrary/rgTSO.nsf/0/985307 e8eb1b9a1986256e930061198b/$FILE/c49.pdf The link above is to the TSO and also to SAE AS404A This SAE $$ document is now at rev. C - but, like the text below says , no post-manufacture stuff is probably in rev C.... I seem to remember the 150 rpm from one of the FAA Mechanics AC books , but I can't presently find it - but it was not a FAR -- gil A -------------------- AC 20-37D text extract ------------- 8. TACHOMETER INSPECTION. Due to the exceptionally high stresses that may be generated by parti cular propeller/engine combinations at certain engine revolutions per minute (RPM), many pro peller and aircraft manufacturers have established areas of RPM restrictions and other re strictions on maximum RPM for some models. Some RPM limits have never exceed values as clos e as 3 percent of the maximum RPM permitted, and a slow-running tachometer can cause an eng ine to run past the maximum RPM limits. Since there are no post-manufacture accuracy requ irements for engine tachometers, tachometer inaccuracy could be a direct cause of propell er failure, excessive vibration, or unscheduled maintenance. Tachometer accuracy should alw ays be checked during normal maintenance intervals or sooner if indicators such as excessiv e vibration or aircraft performance changes might indicate inaccurate RPM readings. --------------------------- At 12:01 AM 9/9/2009, teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote: >Is there a regulation, FAR, saying the tach cannot be placarded and >must be replaced if the tach is more than 150 rpm wrong=3F I can't >find it if there is one. TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. http://www.matronics.com/contribution TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-List =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F- =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-=========================================================== -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject: Re: oil filler door.
Date: Sep 10, 2009
How did it fit=3F The stock door is a slight compound curve as I recall, mak ing it difficult to fabricate just cutting out of a flat sheet. You can al ways use an English wheel, etc to help it along. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: n32romeo(at)aol.com To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 10:41 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: oil filler door. I landed at College Park outside of DC in '85. The line boy came out and said =22you have a hole in your cowl=22. The oil check door was gone. It was evident that the hinge pin failed. The FBO A&P and I fabricated a new doo r, which is still on the plane. Rich Harrison N1632Romeo Dog is my Co-Pilot =22Grumman=22 -----Original Message----- From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 12:06 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: oil filler door. Lincoln is saying the oil filler door hinge (hinge is sloppy, it shuts an d locks tight but it's worn) is an airworthiness issue and wants to charge a seller (customer of mine) $200 to fix it. =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-List =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F- =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-=========================================================== -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "923te" <923te(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Tach accuracy
Date: Sep 10, 2009
Hi Gil, Just curious what you used to check the accuracy of your tach? ned ----- Original Message ----- From: Gil Alexander To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 7:33 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy Yep... I sent my mechanical one for overhaul because it was about 125 rpm out, It came back with the same error...:^) The airpark pilots tell me that the local Tucson speedometer shop can re-calibrate it without telling the FAA, but I bought a digital one instead. The old one went on e-bay for $50.... gil A At 01:58 PM 9/9/2009, you wrote: I couldn't find anything either. The buyer wants a new one not realizing it is probably 100 rpm wrong to begin with. -----Original Message----- From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 8:29 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy Gary, I don't think so, since this came from AC 20-37D AIRCRAFT METAL PROPELLER MAINTENANCE on care of metal props - note the bit on no post-manufacture accuracy. It might be hidden in the SAE standard referenced by TSO C94 for tachometers, but the SAE has deemed it necessary to charge $$ for all of their documents. ...but this really old FAA TSO gives the original 1954 accuracy as 25 rpm at room temp.... http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/0/985307e8eb 1b9a1986256e930061198b/$FILE/c49.pdf The link above is to the TSO and also to SAE AS404A This SAE $$ document is now at rev. C - but, like the text below says, no post-manufacture stuff is probably in rev C.... I seem to remember the 150 rpm from one of the FAA Mechanics AC books, but I can't presently find it - but it was not a FAR -- gil A -------------------- AC 20-37D text extract ------------- 8. TACHOMETER INSPECTION. Due to the exceptionally high stresses that may be generated by particular propeller/engine combinations at certain engine revolutions per minute (RPM), many propeller and aircraft manufacturers have established areas of RPM restrictions and other restrictions on maximum RPM for some models. Some RPM limits have never exceed values as close as 3 percent of the maximum RPM permitted, and a slow-running tachometer can cause an engine to run past the maximum RPM limits. Since there are no post-manufacture accuracy requirements for engine tachometers, tachometer inaccuracy could be a direct cause of propeller failure, excessive vibration, or unscheduled maintenance. Tachometer accuracy should always be checked during normal maintenance intervals or sooner if indicators such as excessive vibration or aircraft performance changes might indicate inaccurate RPM readings. --------------------------- At 12:01 AM 9/9/2009, teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote: >Is there a regulation, FAR, saying the tach cannot be placarded and >must be replaced if the tach is more than 150 rpm wrong? I can't >find it if there is one. TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lincoln Skyways
Date: Sep 10, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.com
Corl,? The things they told the buyer and the seller were airworthy issues that NEEDED to be completed before it was airworthy, were largely cosmetic. ?Many items, such as needing to replace the Clevis pin on the bottom of the master cylinders because there was too much play in them were bullshit. ?You CAN'T take out the play or the pivot won't work correctly. ?Without removing the pin, there is no way of knowing IF it needs to be replaced. ?They wanted nearly $450 to replace the mechanical tach. ?They claimed the hoses NEEDED to be marked with torque seal to be legal. ?That's bullshit too. ?Appendix D just says to make sure the hoses are tight. ?If they are not leaking, they are tight. Bottom line is, they are trying to gouge the buyer and the seller. ?What they wrote up as airworthy and claim needs to be done to make the plane airworthy tells me they have a tendency to stretch the truth. ?Either that, or they don't know what AIRWORTHY means. Example: the vernier mixture cable they claim needs to be replaced because the owner didn't send down the paperwork. ?OK. ?I'll buy that. ?BUT, the price to replace the cable was $450. ?Fletcher sells the stock one for $50. ? Example: ?The brake lines have some corrosion on them. ?Most brake lines do. ?The problem is, Skyways told the buyer they NEED to be replaced because they MIGHT leak. ?OK. ?Fair enough. ?Then, let's replace the engine too because it MIGHT quit. ? Example: ?Skyways called the nose strut a nose 'spring' and said because the rock chips had some rust in them that the nose 'spring' was unairworthy and needed to be repainted before they signed it off as airworthy. Shall I go on? Greg Ketell (?) had a similar problem when his plane was on lease back in Livermore. ?Going back through the logs I was amazed to find stuff that would never need replacement/service being repaired or replaced. In the last 25 years of working on Grummans, I've never done unnecessary maintenance just to make a few bucks. ?Maybe I'll start finding a lot of cowlings with too many cracks to be airworthy. -----Original Message----- From: cwleach <corl(at)aya.org> Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 9:26 pm Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Lincoln Skyways In regards to what, Gary? Grumman made a mighty fine line of canoes and even RVs at one time. Personally, I wouldn't worry about there being true make/model competition in your area ... but I certainly wouldn't hesitate having them work on my plane when the task is relatively generic such as replacing a failed magneto or starter ... not that I'd know anything about that! :-) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262377#262377 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 2009
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Tach accuracy
Hi Ned, I used a borrowed digital model rpm gauge - worked great. Just pointed it forward from the cockpit when in flight. They can be checked for accuracy against the 60/120 Hz component of mains driven lights. Cheap too -- http://www.towerhobbies.com/products/towp1221.html It will even work on three bladed props....:^) gil A At 08:05 AM 9/10/2009, you wrote: >Hi Gil, > >Just curious what you used to check the accuracy of your tach? > >ned >----- Original Message ----- >From: <mailto:gilalex(at)earthlink.net>Gil Alexander >To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 7:33 PM >Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tach accuracy > >Yep... I sent my mechanical one for overhaul because it was about >125 rpm out, It came back with the same error...:^) > >The airpark pilots tell me that the local Tucson speedometer shop >can re-calibrate it without telling the FAA, but I bought a digital >one instead. > >The old one went on e-bay for $50.... gil A > >At 01:58 PM 9/9/2009, you wrote: >>I couldn't find anything either. The buyer wants a new one not >>realizing it is probably 100 rpm wrong to begin with. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lincoln Skyways
From: "cwleach" <corl(at)aya.org>
Date: Sep 10, 2009
Was there a specific incident that triggered this thread? I know the folks at Lincoln Skyways fairly well and would be happy to obtain the details .... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262430#262430 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 2009
From: Davie Alison <guy4sky(at)YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Air Sea Rescue
I've jumped out of Thai C-130s in Korat and Udon Thani. --- On Wed, 9/9/09, teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote: > I forgot to add, I was stationed with the > 56th Air Rescue and Recovery Sqdn and later the 40th ARRS in > Korat and NKP Thailand. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GOLDPILOT(at)AOL.COM
Date: Sep 11, 2009
Subject: Lincoln Skyways
John Coze has used them for quite a while for his 260 HP Grumman. He likes their work. Check with him. He is based at LHM. _Johncgrumm(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Johncgrumm(at)aol.com) David ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lincoln Skyways
Date: Sep 11, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Hi Corl,? Yes, there was something that triggered this thread. ? Tom Parent has a two-seater he is trying to sell. ?His buyer took it to Lincoln Skyways for a pre-purchase/annual. ?Tom had told the buyer that he would pay for any airworthy issues they found during the pre-buy. ?The airworthy issues came to nearly $4,000. ?Most, if not all, of that which they claim is an airworthy issue is either normal wear and tear or cosmetic. ? They also told Tom this is probably the first 'real' annual this plane has had in many years. ?I did the annual last year. ?At that time, the airframe had almost 2100 hours on it. ?The engine had 216 SMOH. ?The plane showed normal wear and tear. ?LS commented that the elevator bearings were worn and needed to be replaced. ?I measured them (the outboard bearings) at .010 and .015. ?The limit is .030: ?they are still airworthy. ? The ONLY possible airworthy item I found was the stall warning switch. ?It was intermittent on the ground but worked in the air. ?This was not mentioned in the Skyways summary. >From my perspective, LS is either 'claiming' the other items were airworthy to get the owner to pay for unnecessary repairs or simply fishing for work. ?Either way, it's unethical. Gary -----Original Message----- From: cwleach <corl(at)aya.org> Sent: Thu, Sep 10, 2009 9:31 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Lincoln Skyways Was there a specific incident that triggered this thread? I know the folks at Lincoln Skyways fairly well and would be happy to obtain the details .... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262430#262430 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Air Sea Rescue
Date: Sep 11, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
what year? -----Original Message----- From: Davie Alison <guy4sky(at)YAHOO.COM> Sent: Thu, Sep 10, 2009 6:30 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue I've jumped out of Thai C-130s in Korat and Udon Thani. --- On Wed, 9/9/09, teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote: > I forgot to add, I was stationed with the > 56th Air Rescue and Recovery Sqdn and later the 40th ARRS in > Korat and NKP Thailand. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fwd: Auburn Chamber
Date: Sep 11, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
Begin at sign of affection http://auburnjournal.com/detail/128254.html?content_source=&category_id =&search_filter=&user_id=&event_mode=&event_ts_from=&event_ts_to =&list_type=&order_by=&order_sort=&content_class=1&sub_type=&t own_id =C2- Here=99s the article in the Journal.=C2- Kel J =C2- =C2- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Auburn Fire
Date: Sep 11, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2009
From: Davie Alison <guy4sky(at)YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Air Sea Rescue
2004 and 2006. http://theworldteam.com/ --- On Fri, 9/11/09, teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote: > From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com <teamgrumman(at)aol.com> > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 9:32 AM > what year? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Davie Alison <guy4sky(at)YAHOO.COM> > > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > > Sent: Thu, Sep 10, 2009 6:30 pm > > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue > > > > > > > > > > --> TeamGrumman-List > message posted by: Davie Alison > > > I've jumped out of Thai C-130s in Korat and Udon Thani. > > > > --- On Wed, 9/9/09, teamgrumman(at)aol.com > > wrote: > > > I forgot to add, I was stationed with the > > 56th Air Rescue and Recovery Sqdn and later the 40th > ARRS in > > Korat and NKP Thailand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2009
From: Davie Alison <guy4sky(at)YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Air Sea Rescue
2004: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUs2hyKv1jc 2006: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74zhNxgFkTQ --- On Fri, 9/11/09, teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote: > From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com <teamgrumman(at)aol.com> > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 9:32 AM > what year? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Davie Alison <guy4sky(at)YAHOO.COM> > > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > > Sent: Thu, Sep 10, 2009 6:30 pm > > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue > > > > > > > > > > --> TeamGrumman-List > message posted by: Davie Alison > > > I've jumped out of Thai C-130s in Korat and Udon Thani. > > > > --- On Wed, 9/9/09, teamgrumman(at)aol.com > > wrote: > > > I forgot to add, I was stationed with the > > 56th Air Rescue and Recovery Sqdn and later the 40th > ARRS in > > Korat and NKP Thailand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "923te" <923te(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Air Sea Rescue
Date: Sep 11, 2009
Hey Davie, You ever do this? http://tinyurl.com/7aghom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2009
From: Davie Alison <guy4sky(at)YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Air Sea Rescue
I've jumped off of El Capitan, but no skis or wingsuit. --- On Fri, 9/11/09, 923te <923te(at)att.net> wrote: > From: 923te <923te(at)att.net> > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 4:15 PM > > > > > > > > Hey Davie, > > You ever do > this? > > http://tinyurl.com/7aghom > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: oil filler door.
Date: Sep 11, 2009
From: n32romeo(at)AOL.COM
I did not put a compound curve in it, just a flat sheet, curved.? I had to add some doublers later, as the door is not the same thickness as the original, and would not stay shut due to the pressures. Rich -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 10, 2009 5:43 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: oil filler door. How did it fit?? The stock door is a slight compound curve as I recall, making it difficult to fabricate just cutting out of a flat sheet.? You can always use an English wheel, etc to help it along. ? Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: n32romeo(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 10:41 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: oil filler door. I landed at College Park outside of DC in '85.? The line boy came out and said "you have a hole in your cowl".? The oil check door was gone.? It was evident that the hinge pin failed.? The FBO A&P and I fabricated a new door, which is still on the plane. Rich Harrison N1632Romeo Dog is my Co-Pilot "Grumman" -----Original Message----- From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 12:06 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: oil filler door. Lincoln is saying the oil filler door hinge (hinge is sloppy, it shuts and locks tight but it's worn) is an airworthiness issue and wants to charge a seller (customer of mine) $200 to fix it. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfersion does not have this message. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: oil filler door.
Date: Sep 11, 2009
From: n32romeo(at)AOL.COM
Well, in 1985 I had no complaints.? They helped me find a nice place to stay as well as helping me get my plane fixed, and charged me very fairly I thought.? Wish we could still fly in there today with the ease of years past.... Rich -----Original Message----- From: Doug Ilg <doug.ilg(at)verizon.net> Sent: Thu, Sep 10, 2009 4:53 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: oil filler door. Rich, ? You were lucky to have gotten good service at College Park in those days.? The guy that ran that shop (a well-known local traffic reporter) ended up becoming notorious for bad business practices.? We got rid of him in the?late 90s.? Since 9/11, of course, we have no real FBO at all.? Just fuel.? ? Doug Ilg Grumman Tiger N74818, College Park?Airport (KCGS), Maryland Challenger II LSS (N641LG?reserved)?- kit underway at Laurel Suburban (W18) From: "n32romeo(at)aol.com" <n32romeo(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: oil filler door. I landed at College Park outside of DC in '85.? The line boy came out and said "you have a hole in your cowl".? The oil check door was gone.? It was evident that the hinge pin failed.? The FBO A&P and I fabricated a new door, which is still on the plane. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Air Sea Rescue
Date: Sep 12, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
I would love to see it now. ?Did you visit Lady Mo in Korat? -----Original Message----- From: Davie Alison <guy4sky(at)YAHOO.COM> Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 3:33 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue 2004 and 2006. http://theworldteam.com/ --- On Fri, 9/11/09, teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote: > From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com <teamgrumman(at)aol.com> > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 9:32 AM > what year? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Davie Alison <guy4sky(at)YAHOO.COM> > > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > > Sent: Thu, Sep 10, 2009 6:30 pm > > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue > > > > > > > > > > --> TeamGrumman-List > message posted by: Davie Alison > > > I've jumped out of Thai C-130s in Korat and Udon Thani. > > > > --- On Wed, 9/9/09, teamgrumman(at)aol.com > > wrote: > > > I forgot to add, I was stationed with the > > 56th Air Rescue and Recovery Sqdn and later the 40th > ARRS in > > Korat and NKP Thailand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Air Sea Rescue
Date: Sep 12, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
Pretty cool. -----Original Message----- From: Davie Alison <guy4sky(at)YAHOO.COM> Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 3:43 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue 2004: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUs2hyKv1jc 2006: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74zhNxgFkTQ --- On Fri, 9/11/09, teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote: > From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com <teamgrumman(at)aol.com> > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 9:32 AM > what year? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Davie Alison <guy4sky(at)YAHOO.COM> > > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > > Sent: Thu, Sep 10, 2009 6:30 pm > > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Air Sea Rescue > > > > > > > > > > --> TeamGrumman-List > message posted by: Davie Alison > > > I've jumped out of Thai C-130s in Korat and Udon Thani. > > > > --- On Wed, 9/9/09, teamgrumman(at)aol.com > > wrote: > > > I forgot to add, I was stationed with the > > 56th Air Rescue and Recovery Sqdn and later the 40th > ARRS in > > Korat and NKP Thailand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Float doesn't
Date: Sep 20, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
I had a customer called several weeks ago saying his engine felt 'weird' on a landing, kind of like it wanted to stall. ?As he rolled out onto the taxiway, the engine felt normal. ?We made an appointment to check it out, and left it at that. ?The next few flights were about the same. ?He didn't worry much about the engine. ? A couple of weeks ago (oh, he never did come down to have it checked out) he called saying it was worse. ? Note: ?He has a Cheetah. ?Several years ago I had a customer with the same symptoms with his Cheetah and it was the mixture needle working it's way out. ? I had him check the mixture screw and turn it in a 1/4 turn and said to bring it in. ?He planned to bring it in but never did. ?The engine 'felt' better. ? Last week, he called saying it was getting a lot worse. ?He said it barely ran at idle. ?He finally brought it in last Friday. ? I looked for all of the basic stuff, leaks at the intake tubes, mixture screw, looked for leaks on the carb . . . . nothing. ?We removed the cowling and airbox. ?Several years ago, the accelerator nozzle in the carb on my Cheetah had fallen out and was lying in the bottom of the airbox. ?I expected to find something like that. ?Nothing. ?Venturi was tight,?accelerator nozzle was tight . . . ?nothing. ?I removed the carb. I expected to find debris in the bottom of the carb. ?Nothing. ?Then I noticed one of the semi-transparent floats was full, I mean full, of fuel. ?These are the white floats. ?They should have been changed. ?Except that, the carb had been overhauled in 2005. ?All new parts. ? Carb goes to Ken, at Lycon, in the morning. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2009
From: jetinc(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Float doesn't
Gary, Wish I was still flying and you were working on my plane. Your knowledge of these planes saves owners a ton of money. Way to go Gear Head! Eddie ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:58:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't I had a customer called several weeks ago saying his engine felt 'weird' on a landing, kind of like it wanted to stall. As he rolled out onto the taxiway, the engine felt normal. We made an appointment to check it out, and left it at that. The next few flights were about the same. He didn't worry much about the engine. A couple of weeks ago (oh, he never did come down to have it checked out) he called saying it was worse. Note: He has a Cheetah. Several years ago I had a customer with the same symptoms with his Cheetah and it was the mixture needle working it's way out. I had him check the mixture screw and turn it in a 1/4 turn and said to bring it in. He planned to bring it in but never did. The engine 'felt' better. Last week, he called saying it was getting a lot worse. He said it barely ran at idle. He finally brought it in last Friday. I looked for all of the basic stuff, leaks at the intake tubes, mixture screw, looked for leaks on the carb . . . . nothing. We removed the cowling and airbox. Several years ago, the accelerator nozzle in the carb on my Cheetah had fallen out and was lying in the bottom of the airbox. I expected to find something like that. Nothing. Venturi was tight, accelerator nozzle was tight . . . nothing. I removed the carb. I expected to find debris in the bottom of the carb. Nothing. Then I noticed one of the semi-transparent floats was full, I mean full, of fuel. These are the white floats. They should have been changed. Except that, the carb had been overhauled in 2005. All new parts. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Float doesn't
Date: Sep 20, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
Hey Eddie, I know of a couple of project planes. ?What a project? -----Original Message----- From: jetinc(at)comcast.net Sent: Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:19 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't Gary, Wish I was still flying and you were working on my plane. ?Your knowledge of these planes saves owners a ton of money. ?Way to go Gear Head! Eddie ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:58:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't I had a customer called several weeks ago saying his engine felt 'weird' on a landing, kind of like it wanted to stall. ?As he rolled out onto the taxiway, the engine felt normal. ?We made an appointment to check it out, and left it at that. ?The next few flights were about the same. ?He didn't worry much about the engine. ? A couple of weeks ago (oh, he never did come down to have it checked out) he called saying it was worse. ? Note: ?He has a Cheetah. ?Several years ago I had a customer with the same symptoms with his Cheetah and it was the mixture needle working it's way out. ? I had him check the mixture screw and turn it in a 1/4 turn and said to bring it in. ?He planned to bring it in but never did. ?The engine 'felt' better. ? Last week, he called saying it was getting a lot worse. ?He said it barely ran at idle. ?He finally brought it in last Friday. ? I looked for all of the basic stuff, leaks at the intake tubes, mixture screw, looked for leaks on the carb . . . . nothing. ?We removed the cowling and airbox. ?Several years ago, the accelerator nozzle in the carb on my Cheetah had fallen out and was lying in the bottom of the airbox. ?I expected to find something like that. ?Nothing. ?Venturi was tight,?accelerator nozzle was tight . . . ?nothing. ?I removed the carb. I expected to find debris in the bottom of the carb. ?Nothing. ?Then I noticed one of the semi-transparent floats was full, I mean full, of fuel. ?These are the white floats. ?They should have been changed. ?Except that, the carb had been overhauled in 2005. ?All new parts. ? Carb goes to Ken, at Lycon, in the morning. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2009
From: jetinc(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Float doesn't
I think I need another project like I need another Kid! Can't wait to come up and see you... Eddie ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:38:31 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't Hey Eddie, I know of a couple of project planes. What a project? -----Original Message----- From: jetinc(at)comcast.net Sent: Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:19 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't Gary, Wish I was still flying and you were working on my plane. Your knowledge of these planes saves owners a ton of money. Way to go Gear Head! Eddie ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:58:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't I had a customer called several weeks ago saying his engine felt 'weird' on a landing, kind of like it wanted to stall. As he rolled out onto the taxiway, the engine felt normal. We made an appointment to check it out, and left it at that. The next few flights were about the same. He didn't worry much about the engine. A couple of weeks ago (oh, he never did come down to have it checked out) he called saying it was worse. Note: He has a Cheetah. Several years ago I had a customer with the same symptoms with his Cheetah and it was the mixture needle working it's way out. I had him check the mixture screw and turn it in a 1/4 turn and said to bring it in. He planned to bring it in but never did. The engine 'felt' better. Last week, he called saying it was getting a lot worse. He said it barely ran at idle. He finally brought it in last Friday. I looked for all of the basic stuff, leaks at the intake tubes, mixture screw, looked for leaks on the carb . . . . nothing. We removed the cowling and airbox. Several years ago, the accelerator nozzle in the carb on my Cheetah had fallen out and was lying in the bottom of the airbox. I expected to find something like that. Nothing. Venturi was tight, accelerator nozzle was tight . . . nothing. I removed the carb. I expected to find debris in the bottom of the carb. Nothing. Then I noticed one of the semi-transparent floats was full, I mean full, of fuel. These are the white floats. They should have been changed. Except that, the carb had been overhauled in 2005. All new parts. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Float doesn't
Date: Sep 20, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
Come on up and help with the remodeling of my Condo. -----Original Message----- From: jetinc(at)comcast.net Sent: Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:49 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't I think I need another project like I need another Kid! ?Can't wait to come up and see you... Eddie ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:38:31 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't Hey Eddie, I know of a couple of project planes. ?What a project? -----Original Message----- From: jetinc(at)comcast.net Sent: Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:19 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't Gary, Wish I was still flying and you were working on my plane. ?Your knowledge of these planes saves owners a ton of money. ?Way to go Gear Head! Eddie ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:58:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't I had a customer called several weeks ago saying his engine felt 'weird' on a landing, kind of like it wanted to stall. ?As he rolled out onto the taxiway, the engine felt normal. ?We made an appointment to check it out, and left it at that. ?The next few flights were about the same. ?He didn't worry much about the engine. ? A couple of weeks ago (oh, he never did come down to have it checked out) he called saying it was worse. ? Note: ?He has a Cheetah. ?Several years ago I had a customer with the same symptoms with his Cheetah and it was the mixture needle working it's way out. ? I had him check the mixture screw and turn it in a 1/4 turn and said to bring it in. ?He planned to bring it in but never did. ?The engine 'felt' better. ? Last week, he called saying it was getting a lot worse. ?He said it barely ran at idle. ?He finally brought it in last Friday. ? I looked for all of the basic stuff, leaks at the intake tubes, mixture screw, looked for leaks on the carb . . . . nothing. ?We removed the cowling and airbox. ?Several years ago, the accelerator nozzle in the carb on my Cheetah had fallen out and was lying in the bottom of the airbox. ?I expected to find something like that. ?Nothing. ?Venturi was tight,?accelerator nozzle was tight . . . ?nothing. ?I removed the carb. I expected to find debris in the bottom of the carb. ?Nothing. ?Then I noticed one of the semi-transparent floats was full, I mean full, of fuel. ?These are the white floats. ?They should have been changed. ?Except that, the carb had been overhauled in 2005. ?All new parts. ? Carb goes to Ken, at Lycon, in the morning. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2009
From: jetinc(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Float doesn't
roger, wilco! ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:03:04 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't Come on up and help with the remodeling of my Condo. -----Original Message----- From: jetinc(at)comcast.net Sent: Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:49 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't I think I need another project like I need another Kid! Can't wait to come up and see you... Eddie ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:38:31 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't Hey Eddie, I know of a couple of project planes. What a project? -----Original Message----- From: jetinc(at)comcast.net Sent: Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:19 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't Gary, Wish I was still flying and you were working on my plane. Your knowledge of these planes saves owners a ton of money. Way to go Gear Head! Eddie ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:58:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't I had a customer called several weeks ago saying his engine felt 'weird' on a landing, kind of like it wanted to stall. As he rolled out onto the taxiway, the engine felt normal. We made an appointment to check it out, and left it at that. The next few flights were about the same. He didn't worry much about the engine. A couple of weeks ago (oh, he never did come down to have it checked out) he called saying it was worse. Note: He has a Cheetah. Several years ago I had a customer with the same symptoms with his Cheetah and it was the mixture needle working it's way out. I had him check the mixture screw and turn it in a 1/4 turn and said to bring it in. He planned to bring it in but never did. The engine 'felt' better. Last week, he called saying it was getting a lot worse. He said it barely ran at idle. He finally brought it in last Friday. I looked for all of the basic stuff, leaks at the intake tubes, mixture screw, looked for leaks on the carb . . . . nothing. We removed the cowling and airbox. Several years ago, the accelerator nozzle in the carb on my Cheetah had fallen out and was lying in the bottom of the airbox. I expected to find something like that. Nothing. Venturi was tight, accelerator nozzle was tight . . . nothing. I removed the carb. I expected to find debris in the bottom of the carb. Nothing. Then I noticed one of the semi-transparent floats was full, I mean full, of fuel. These are the white floats. They should have been changed. Except that, the carb had been overhauled in 2005. All new parts. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject: Re: Float doesn't
Date: Sep 20, 2009
Gary, after our phone conversation Friday about this, it doesn't surprise m e. The float was sinking, raising the fuel level and making it run very ri ch. Probably could have diagnosed it by leaning the mixture manually until it smoothed out and that would have told you it was to rich (20/20 hindsig ht, right=3F). Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:58 AM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't I had a customer called several weeks ago saying his engine felt 'weird' on a landing, kind of like it wanted to stall. As he rolled out onto the t axiway, the engine felt normal. We made an appointment to check it out, an d left it at that. The next few flights were about the same. He didn't wo rry much about the engine. A couple of weeks ago (oh, he never did come down to have it checked out) he called saying it was worse. Note: He has a Cheetah. Several years ago I had a customer with the sam e symptoms with his Cheetah and it was the mixture needle working it's way out. I had him check the mixture screw and turn it in a 1/4 turn and said to b ring it in. He planned to bring it in but never did. The engine 'felt' be tter. Last week, he called saying it was getting a lot worse. He said it barel y ran at idle. He finally brought it in last Friday. I looked for all of the basic stuff, leaks at the intake tubes, mixture s crew, looked for leaks on the carb . . . . nothing. We removed the cowling and airbox. Several years ago, the accelerator nozzle in the carb on my C heetah had fallen out and was lying in the bottom of the airbox. I expecte d to find something like that. Nothing. Venturi was tight, accelerator no zzle was tight . . . nothing. I removed the carb. I expected to find debris in the bottom of the carb. Nothing. Then I no ticed one of the semi-transparent floats was full, I mean full, of fuel. T hese are the white floats. They should have been changed. Except that, th e carb had been overhauled in 2005. All new parts. Carb goes to Ken, at Lycon, in the morning. =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-List =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F- =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-=========================================================== -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: This is funny.
Date: Sep 21, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
(Sept. 20) - Only one in four Oklahoma high school students can correctly name the first president of the United States, according to a survey released Friday. The Oklahoma Council of Public Affairs conducted the survey to find the students' basic knowledge of civics,?Tulsa World reported. Students were asked 10 questions taken from the U.S. citizenship test. The passing rate for Oklahoma high school students was 2.8 percent. About 92 percent of candidates pass the test for U.S. citizenship.? ========================= Ned, the one thing we noticed the most during our travels through Oklahoma was how remarkably clean it was. ?From the first rest stop to the last, OK left a good impression.? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "923te" <923te(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: This is funny.
Date: Sep 21, 2009
"In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant." - Elwood P. Dowd It's nice to hear a foreigner say we okies be dumb but we be clean.... ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 10:55 AM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: This is funny. (Sept. 20) - Only one in four Oklahoma high school students can correctly name the first president of the United States, according to a survey released Friday. The Oklahoma Council of Public Affairs conducted the survey to find the students' basic knowledge of civics, Tulsa World reported. Students were asked 10 questions taken from the U.S. citizenship test.< /div> The passing rate for Oklahoma high school students was 2.8 percent. About 92 percent of candidates pass the test for U.S. citizenship. Ned, the one thing we noticed the most during our travels through Oklahoma was how remarkably clean it was. From the first rest stop to the last, OK left a good impression. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Float doesn't
Date: Sep 24, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Floats in carburetors have been around for over 100 years. ?It amazes me how carbs in cars have managed to avoid recalls every couple of years to fix a problem with floats. ?Why not have Holley, Edelbrock, Carter or General Motors build the floats? ? It's not like GM doesn't need the work. ? -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> Sent: Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:36 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't Gary, after our phone conversation Friday about this, it doesn't surprise me.? The float was sinking, raising the fuel level and making it run very rich.? Probably could have diagnosed it by leaning the mixture manually until it smoothed out and that would have told you it was to rich (20/20 hindsight, right?). ? Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:58 AM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't I had a customer called several weeks ago saying his engine felt 'weird' on a landing, kind of like it wanted to stall. ?As he rolled out onto the taxiway, the engine felt normal. ?We made an appointment to check it out, and left it at that. ?The next few flights were about the same. ?He didn't worry much about the engine. ? A couple of weeks ago (oh, he never did come down to have it checked out) he called saying it was worse. ? Note: ?He has a Cheetah. ?Several years ago I had a customer with the same symptoms with his Cheetah and it was the mixture needle working it's way out. ? I had him check the mixture screw and turn it in a 1/4 turn and said to bring it in. ?He planned to bring it in but never did. ?The engine 'felt' better. ? Last week, he called saying it was getting a lot worse. ?He said it barely ran at idle. ?He finally brought it in last Friday. ? I looked for all of the basic stuff, leaks at the intake tubes, mixture screw, looked for leaks on the carb . . . . nothing. ?We removed the cowling and airbox. ?Several years ago, the accelerator nozzle in the carb on my Cheetah had fallen out and was lying in the bottom of the airbox. ?I expected to find something like that. ?Nothing. ?Venturi was tight,?accelerator nozzle was tight . . . ?nothing. ?I removed the carb. I expected to find debris in the bottom of the carb. ?Nothing. ?Then I noticed one of the semi-transparent floats was full, I mean full, of fuel. ?These are the white floats. ?They should have been changed. ?Except that, the carb had been overhauled in 2005. ?All new parts. ? Carb goes to Ken, at Lycon, in the morning. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfersion does not have this message. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tire wear
Date: Sep 24, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
Other than the plane I worked on with a gear leg that had been splintered during a really hard landing, I haven't seen a big problem with tire wear. ?I've got a customer with a very low time Cheetah, previously owned by a flight instructor (his personal plane), with a left tire that is wearing. ? On my Citabria, there were angled shims. ?I'm assuming the Grummans have the same setup. ?I haven't dug into it yet. ? Any ideas? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject: Re: Float doesn't
Date: Sep 24, 2009
Oh, come on Gary, you are being way to practical!! Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 11:09 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't Floats in carburetors have been around for over 100 years. It amazes me how carbs in cars have managed to avoid recalls every couple of years to fi x a problem with floats. Why not have Holley, Edelbrock, Carter or General Motors build the floats=3F It's not like GM doesn't need the work. -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:36 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't Gary, after our phone conversation Friday about this, it doesn't surprise me. The float was sinking, raising the fuel level and making it run very rich. Probably could have diagnosed it by leaning the mixture manually unt il it smoothed out and that would have told you it was to rich (20/20 hinds ight, right=3F). Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:58 AM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Float doesn't I had a customer called several weeks ago saying his engine felt 'weird ' on a landing, kind of like it wanted to stall. As he rolled out onto the taxiway, the engine felt normal. We made an appointment to check it out, and left it at that. The next few flights were about the same. He didn't worry much about the engine. A couple of weeks ago (oh, he never did come down to have it checked ou t) he called saying it was worse. Note: He has a Cheetah. Several years ago I had a customer with the s ame symptoms with his Cheetah and it was the mixture needle working it's wa y out. I had him check the mixture screw and turn it in a 1/4 turn and said to bring it in. He planned to bring it in but never did. The engine 'felt' better. Last week, he called saying it was getting a lot worse. He said it bar ely ran at idle. He finally brought it in last Friday. I looked for all of the basic stuff, leaks at the intake tubes, mixture screw, looked for leaks on the carb . . . . nothing. We removed the cowli ng and airbox. Several years ago, the accelerator nozzle in the carb on my Cheetah had fallen out and was lying in the bottom of the airbox. I expec ted to find something like that. Nothing. Venturi was tight, accelerator nozzle was tight . . . nothing. I removed the carb. I expected to find debris in the bottom of the carb. Nothing. Then I noticed one of the semi-transparent floats was full, I mean full, of fuel. These are the white floats. They should have been changed. Except that, the carb had been overhauled in 2005. All new parts. Carb goes to Ken, at Lycon, in the morning. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfersion does not have this message. =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-List =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F- =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-=========================================================== -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tire wear
Date: Sep 24, 2009
From: n32romeo(at)AOL.COM
In the AA-1 service manual it lists shims (PN 701068-1 through -3) to change the toe-in / toe-out..... Rich -----Original Message----- From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM Sent: Thu, Sep 24, 2009 11:55 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Tire wear Other than the plane I worked on with a gear leg that had been splintered during a really hard landing, I haven't seen a big problem with tire wear. ?I've got a customer with a very low time Cheetah, previously owned by a flight instructor (his personal plane), with a left tire that is wearing. ? On my Citabria, there were angled shims. ?I'm assuming the Grummans have the same setup. ?I haven't dug into it yet. ? Any ideas? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2009
From: Doug Ilg <doug.ilg(at)verizon.net>
Subject: test
Trying to determine whether Verizon is blocking my receipt of the teamgrumman emails. They've been doing strange things, lately. Please excuse the annoyance. Doug Ilg Grumman Tiger N74818, College Park Airport (KCGS), Maryland Challenger II LSS (N641LG reserved) - kit underway at Laurel Suburban (W18) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: test
Date: Oct 01, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
You're coming through on WAVE Internet. -----Original Message----- From: Doug Ilg <doug.ilg(at)verizon.net> Sent: Thu, Oct 1, 2009 7:55 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: test Trying to determine whether Verizon is blocking my receipt of the teamgrumman emails. They've been doing strange things, lately. Please excuse the annoyance. Doug Ilg Grumman Tiger N74818, College Park Airport (KCGS), Maryland Challenger II LSS (N641LG reserved) - kit underway at Laurel Suburban (W18) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2009
From: Doug Ilg <doug.ilg(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: test
Thanks, Gary. Test complete. Doug Ilg Grumman Tiger N74818, College Park Airport (KCGS), Maryland Challenger II LSS (N641LG reserved) - kit underway at Laurel Suburban (W18) > >From: "teamgrumman(at)aol.com" <teamgrumman(at)aol.com> >To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 11:33:02 AM >Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: test > >>You're coming through on WAVE Internet. > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Doug Ilg <doug.ilg(at)verizon.net> >>To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com >>Sent: Thu, Oct 1, 2009 7:55 am >>Subject: TeamGrumman-List: test > > >> > >Trying to determine whether Verizon is blocking my receipt of the teamgrumman >emails. They've been doing strange things, lately. > >Please excuse the annoyance. > > >Doug Ilg >Grumman Tiger N74818, College Park Airport (KCGS), Maryland >Challenger II LSS (N641LG reserved) - kit underway at Laurel Suburban (W18) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Horizontal Braces, EDM 830, Wheel alignment
Date: Oct 03, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Just in case I haven't said this before: A couple of years ago, maybe 3 years now, I asked one of the structural engineers (DER) working on the structural certification portion of my cowling abut the horizontal braces.??He works at a company which repairs the P-3s used for fire fighting here in California. ?At the time, I had a 77 Tiger torn apart with its braces out. ?We looked at and talked about the whole thing off-and-on for a couple of weeks. Based on a finite element analysis and some good old fashioned engineering, he said the braces I proposed would be about 100% to 150% stronger than what was currently being used as a field repair. ?He chose a metal-to-metal bonding adhesive, Hysol 9330.3, that could be done in the field IF the surface of the fuselage could be properly prepared. ? As it happens, there is a metal finishing company on the airport property here in Auburn that the DER?also?uses. ?A couple of weeks ago, I talked to the DERs contact at the metal finishers and asked if it were possible to build bulkheads in the area where the braces would be bonded and just do everything in place. ?His response, "We do that all the time in the field." ? Well, 2 funerals later, the metal finisher was available to do the work . . . ?as soon as he got caught up. ? Yesterday, after resealing the plastic bulkheads twice so they would hold water for 2 hours (of course it takes 24 hours for the RTV to cure), they alodined the inside of the fuselage where the braces are to be bonded. ?He told me, since he didn't have a heated drier for the alodine, that it's best to let it air dry for a couple of days. ?It sure looks good. ?When I do the project plane, I plan to do the entire aft section. ?We're working out the details to either take the fuselage to the shop or build a tank big enough to dunk the aft section. The next step is to get everything fitted and match drilled. ?Then, take everything apart and do the bonding. ?I have a call into the DER overseeing this process. ?As soon as he's available, we'll do the bonding. ? The specs for the Hysol says the maximum cure strength is after 1 hour at 180 degrees or 7 days at 77 degrees. ?Being the skeptic, I'll wait the 7 days before final assembly. ?It's getting cooler in Auburn so I'll build a tent around the aft section and keep the heat up. ?The tough part is going to be making sure the thickness is around 10 to 20 mils. ?That's where maximum strength is. ?I have a couple of ideas. ? Today, after I do the paperwork for a JPI EDM 830 installation on a 2005 Tiger, I'm going to take the plastic bulkheads out and clean off the RTV. ?I'll possibly fit the braces today if I can find help to muscle the horizontal in place. ? The EDM 830: ?What a sweet engine analyzer. ?If you aren't familiar with it, Google it. ? I mentioned I have a customer with tires that wore quickly. ?I used a laser to find the angles in the wheels. ?In 23 feet, the wheels show about 0.4 degrees of toe-out. ?Some of that could be the accuracy of the alignment fixture I made. ?I think it's dead on, but, who knows. ?At any rate, it's straight for all practical purposes. ?They looked like new when the owner picked up the plane last year. ?This year, the tires appeared to be nearly flat. ?I asked the owner and he told me the follows the book recommendations for tire pressure. ?I think that's the problem. ?Still, like the owner who burned through a set of brake linings in 70 hours, it all pays the same to me. ?Note: ?I've been running 32-35 mains and 30 nose for 25 years without any problems. ? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mark Miller <mark(at)edenfx.com>
Subject: 1975 Tiger
Date: Oct 04, 2009
Time has come to sell my 50% partnership in my Tiger. I am relocating a bit to far to commute to fly. If anyone on the list or someone you know is interested please contact me. The plane is at KWHP in Los Angeles (Pacoima) in a hanger. It is a 1975 Tiger with a 1,400 hour Engine with great compression. Garmin 430 panel (Gary did the panel and all the upgrades) Pictures at the link below. Really motivated to sell. http://web.me.com/mmiller358/Site/Tiger_pics.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GOLDPILOT(at)AOL.COM
Date: Oct 04, 2009
Subject: Horizontal Braces, EDM 830, Wheel alignment
I think your "Fireside Chats are great! David ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re:
Date: Oct 08, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Gary, I don't understand all the photos you sent.? The first two appear to show two thick bulkheads (honeycomb?).? Are they temporary or permanent?? The other photos show aluminum formed bulkheads that replace the original angles.? They appear to be far stronger than the original.? What's the difference between the two configurations? ? Cliff ------------------------------------- In order to get a MIL spec alodining on the inside of the fuselage, I needed to create a tank in the back for the alodinging process. ?Doing the parts themselves is easy. ?Getting the inside of the fuselage alodined correctly isn't. ? I also designed, and had approved, new braces. ?It doesn't make sense to replace the weak link with the same weak link. ?The new vertical braces have a 25% wider attaching surface (just in case the bond is weaker) and a return along the edge that I see bent in so many planes. ?The horizontal brace is built like a bridge truss. ?The intention here was to transfer the torsional loads from one side of the fuselage to the other. ?Share the load if you will. ?The area of contact between the horizontal and vertical braces is about 400% greater. ?See new pics. I talked to an engineer (who has done tail wheel conversions) about a tail wheel Tiger. ?If I do go ahead with a tail wheel (you heard it here first) I have considered bonding 1/8 inch honeycomb to the sides of that aft section to beef up the structure. ?The floor would get 1/4 inch. ?We'll see what is needed first. ?I have a spare fuselage to drop . . . .? PS, that last pic is of the tail tie down repair. ?It used 0.030 aluminum riveted to the inside on a portion of skin only 0.025 thick. ?I'll need to repair that while I'm in there. Gary -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:42 am Subject: Re: Gary, I don't understand all the photos you sent.? The first two appear to show two thick bulkheads (honeycomb?).? Are they temporary or permanent?? The other photos show aluminum formed bulkheads that replace the original angles.? They appear to be far stronger than the original.? What's the difference between the two configurations? ? Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:10 AM We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re:
Date: Oct 10, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
I have read that the surface preparation for the metal-to-metal bonding is the most critical part in making it hold. ?Since I was able to seal off the back and do the alodining the correct way, for $300, why not? ?The guys doing the alodining had a lot of buckets of various solutions, acids, washes, and stuff. ?The whole process only took about an hour. ? Is there a market for a tail dragger? ?Probably not. ?It isn't likely there are 10% of the Grumman community that have tail-wheel endorsements. ?I want a tail-dragger; if only to see how much faster it is. ?Is it worth it for a couple of knots? no. ?But, if I can squeeze 10 knots out of it, to me that's worth it. ? Gary -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:04 pm Subject: Re: Your new structure looks very impressive!?? Looks like a bridge compared to the original.? You even formed a joggle at the bottom for a recess for the lower longeron angle, nice.? Why is the alodine so critical that you have to submerge the area?? I know you get a better coating that way but is it really necessary? ? Do you think there is a market for a taildragger Tiger?? Most Tiger owners have never flown a taildragger and probably wouldn't want one.? Would there be a whole new market, or just the ability to get rid of a significant amount of drag and make the plane faster??? How long are you going to be working on this plane?? Maybe I'll fly down and see you. ? Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com ; michael(at)michaellyman.com Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 8:08 AM Subject: Re: Gary, I don't understand all the photos you sent.? The first two appear to show two thick bulkheads (honeycomb?).? Are they temporary or permanent?? The other photos show aluminum formed bulkheads that replace the original angles.? They appear to be far stronger than the original.? What's the difference between the two configurations? ? Cliff ------------------------------------- In order to get a MIL spec alodining on the inside of the fuselage, I needed to create a tank in the back for the alodinging process. ?Doing the parts themselves is easy. ?Getting the inside of the fuselage alodined correctly isn't. ? I also designed, and had approved, new braces. ?It doesn't make sense to replace the weak link with the same weak link. ?The new vertical braces have a 25% wider attaching surface (just in case the bond is weaker) and a return along the edge that I see bent in so many planes. ?The horizontal brace is built like a bridge truss. ?The intention here was to transfer the torsional loads from one side of the fuselage to the other. ?Share the load if you will. ?The area of contact between the horizontal and vertical braces is about 400% greater. ?See new pics. I talked to an engineer (who has done tail wheel conversions) about a tail wheel Tiger. ?If I do go ahead with a tail wheel (you heard it here first) I have considered bonding 1/8 inch honeycomb to the sides of that aft section to beef up the structure. ?The floor would get 1/4 inch. ?We'll see what is needed first. ?I have a spare fuselage to drop . . . .? PS, that last pic is of the tail tie down repair. ?It used 0.030 aluminum riveted to the inside on a portion of skin only 0.025 thick. ?I'll need to repair that while I'm in there. Gary -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:42 am Subject: Re: Gary, I don't understand all the photos you sent.? The first two appear to show two thick bulkheads (honeycomb?).? Are they temporary or permanent?? The other photos show aluminum formed bulkheads that replace the original angles.? They appear to be far stronger than the original.? What's the difference between the two configurations? ? Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:10 AM We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 75305 of my spam emails to date. The Professional version does not have this message. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject: Re:
Date: Oct 10, 2009
Didn't the factory build a retractable gear Tiger. Anyone know how much th at increased the speed. I doubt if you would gain 10 kts, but maybe. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com To: flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com ; teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 10:55 AM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: I have read that the surface preparation for the metal-to-metal bonding i s the most critical part in making it hold. Since I was able to seal off t he back and do the alodining the correct way, for $300, why not=3F The guys doing the alodining had a lot of buckets of various solutions, acids, washe s, and stuff. The whole process only took about an hour. Is there a market for a tail dragger=3F Probably not. It isn't likely the re are 10% of the Grumman community that have tail-wheel endorsements. I w ant a tail-dragger; if only to see how much faster it is. Is it worth it f or a couple of knots=3F no. But, if I can squeeze 10 knots out of it, to me that's worth it. Gary -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> To: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:04 pm Subject: Re: Your new structure looks very impressive! Looks like a bridge compared to the original. You even formed a joggle at the bottom for a recess for t he lower longeron angle, nice. Why is the alodine so critical that you hav e to submerge the area=3F I know you get a better coating that way but is it really necessary=3F Do you think there is a market for a taildragger Tiger=3F Most Tiger owner s have never flown a taildragger and probably wouldn't want one. Would the re be a whole new market, or just the ability to get rid of a significant a mount of drag and make the plane faster=3F How long are you going to be wor king on this plane=3F Maybe I'll fly down and see you. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com To: flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com ; teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com ; michael@m ichaellyman.com Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 8:08 AM Subject: Re: Gary, I don't understand all the photos you sent. The first two appear to show two thick bulkheads (honeycomb=3F). Are they temporary or permanent =3F The other photos show aluminum formed bulkheads that replace the origina l angles. They appear to be far stronger than the original. What's the di fference between the two configurations=3F Cliff ------------------------------------- In order to get a MIL spec alodining on the inside of the fuselage, I n eeded to create a tank in the back for the alodinging process. Doing the p arts themselves is easy. Getting the inside of the fuselage alodined corre ctly isn't. I also designed, and had approved, new braces. It doesn't make sense t o replace the weak link with the same weak link. The new vertical braces h ave a 25% wider attaching surface (just in case the bond is weaker) and a r eturn along the edge that I see bent in so many planes. The horizontal bra ce is built like a bridge truss. The intention here was to transfer the to rsional loads from one side of the fuselage to the other. Share the load i f you will. The area of contact between the horizontal and vertical braces is about 400% greater. See new pics. I talked to an engineer (who has done tail wheel conversions) about a t ail wheel Tiger. If I do go ahead with a tail wheel (you heard it here fir st) I have considered bonding 1/8 inch honeycomb to the sides of that aft s ection to beef up the structure. The floor would get 1/4 inch. We'll see what is needed first. I have a spare fuselage to drop . . . . PS, that last pic is of the tail tie down repair. It used 0.030 alumin um riveted to the inside on a portion of skin only 0.025 thick. I'll need to repair that while I'm in there. Gary -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> To: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:42 am Subject: Re: Gary, I don't understand all the photos you sent. The first two appear to show two thick bulkheads (honeycomb=3F). Are they temporary or permanent =3F The other photos show aluminum formed bulkheads that replace the origina l angles. They appear to be far stronger than the original. What's the di fference between the two configurations=3F Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com To: flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:10 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message. =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-List =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F- =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-=========================================================== -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject: Re:
Date: Oct 11, 2009
What I meant to say was a retractable nose gear only. ----- Original Message ----- From: flyv35b To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 5:27 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Didn't the factory build a retractable gear Tiger. Anyone know how much that increased the speed. I doubt if you would gain 10 kts, but maybe. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com To: flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com ; teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 10:55 AM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: I have read that the surface preparation for the metal-to-metal bonding is the most critical part in making it hold. Since I was able to seal off the back and do the alodining the correct way, for $300, why not? The guys doing the alodining had a lot of buckets of various solutions, acids, washes, and stuff. The whole process only took about an hour. Is there a market for a tail dragger? Probably not. It isn't likely there are 10% of the Grumman community that have tail-wheel endorsements. I want a tail-dragger; if only to see how much faster it is. Is it worth it for a couple of knots? no. But, if I can squeeze 10 knots out of it, to me that's worth it. Gary -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> To: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:04 pm Subject: Re: Your new structure looks very impressive! Looks like a bridge compared to the original. You even formed a joggle at the bottom for a recess for the lower longeron angle, nice. Why is the alodine so critical that you have to submerge the area? I know you get a better coating that way but is it really necessary? Do you think there is a market for a taildragger Tiger? Most Tiger owners have never flown a taildragger and probably wouldn't want one. Would there be a whole new market, or just the ability to get rid of a significant amount of drag and make the plane faster? How long are you going to be working on this plane? Maybe I'll fly down and see you. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com To: flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com ; teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com ; michael(at)michaellyman.com Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 8:08 AM Subject: Re: Gary, I don't understand all the photos you sent. The first two appear to show two thick bulkheads (honeycomb?). Are they temporary or permanent? The other photos show aluminum formed bulkheads that replace the original angles. They appear to be far stronger than the original. What's the difference between the two configurations? Cliff ------------------------------------- In order to get a MIL spec alodining on the inside of the fuselage, I needed to create a tank in the back for the alodinging process. Doing the parts themselves is easy. Getting the inside of the fuselage alodined correctly isn't. I also designed, and had approved, new braces. It doesn't make sense to replace the weak link with the same weak link. The new vertical braces have a 25% wider attaching surface (just in case the bond is weaker) and a return along the edge that I see bent in so many planes. The horizontal brace is built like a bridge truss. The intention here was to transfer the torsional loads from one side of the fuselage to the other. Share the load if you will. The area of contact between the horizontal and vertical braces is about 400% greater. See new pics. I talked to an engineer (who has done tail wheel conversions) about a tail wheel Tiger. If I do go ahead with a tail wheel (you heard it here first) I have considered bonding 1/8 inch honeycomb to the sides of that aft section to beef up the structure. The floor would get 1/4 inch. We'll see what is needed first. I have a spare fuselage to drop . . . . PS, that last pic is of the tail tie down repair. It used 0.030 aluminum riveted to the inside on a portion of skin only 0.025 thick. I'll need to repair that while I'm in there. Gary -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> To: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:42 am Subject: Re: Gary, I don't understand all the photos you sent. The first two appear to show two thick bulkheads (honeycomb?). Are they temporary or permanent? The other photos show aluminum formed bulkheads that replace the original angles. They appear to be far stronger than the original. What's the difference between the two configurations? Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com To: flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:10 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfersion does not have this message. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Mutzman <rcmutz(at)msn.com>
Subject: Metal Overlay
Date: Oct 11, 2009
Gary=2C Are you still selling the metal panel overlays? Can you send some pics and a price? I'll need both the left side and the r ight. Also=2C I was wondering about the fiberglass eyebrow as well. I may have t o wait on that=2C but are you still selling them and can you send me a pric e. Thanks Richard Mutzman Dayton=2C OH (Home of AYA 2010) N399RM =0A _________________________________________________________________=0A Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Roberts <aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com>
Subject: Metal Overlay
Date: Oct 11, 2009
Rich=2C I'm not sure if Gary has the overlays or not but he is still sellin g the fiberglass eyebrow. If you are doing the panel I'd recomend doing the eyebrow at the same time as you will have it all apart anyway and that wou ld be the time to do it. I'm very pleased with Gary's product. Steve Roberts AA1B - 641HY @ ILG AYA Region 2 Director/Forum Admin We shall not cease from exploration. And at the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive were we started And know the place for the first time - T. S. Eliot From: rcmutz(at)msn.com Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Metal Overlay Date: Sun=2C 11 Oct 2009 16:42:07 -0400 Gary=2C Are you still selling the metal panel overlays? Can you send some pics and a price? I'll need both the left side and the r ight. Also=2C I was wondering about the fiberglass eyebrow as well. I may have t o wait on that=2C but are you still selling them and can you send me a pric e. Thanks Richard Mutzman Dayton=2C OH (Home of AYA 2010) N399RM Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fwd: 7 great iPhotos
Date: Oct 11, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
Hi Richard The overlays are $120 plus $20 shipping. ? Are you familiar with the Kokaska overlays? ?These are essentially the same pieces. ?The difference is the openings for the gauges. ? If you want a set of overlays, Please send a check for $140 made payable to? Gary L Vogt 2945 Bell Road ?#150 Auburn, CA ?95603 ================== The Eyebrow is $300 plus $20 shipping.? It comes covered in black Mello-Hyde.? If you want one for your plane, please indicate the year and model Grumman you have and send a check for $320 made payable to? Gary L Vogt 2945 Bell Road ?#150 Auburn, CA ?95603 Along with your check, please include a shipping address. ?Allow 3 weeks for delivery.? Thanks -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Keesaman <jkeesaman(at)mac.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:18 pm Subject: 7 great iPhotos JBK_2002.JPG ? JBK_2004.JPG ? JBK_2016.JPG ? JBK_2017.JPG ? JBK_2018.JPG ? JBK_2019.JPG ? JBK_2024.JPG ? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Mutzman <rcmutz(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Overlays
Date: Oct 12, 2009
Gary=2C Got the message on the overlay and eyebrow. I am familiar with the Kokaska overlay=2C but what is different about the g auge openings. Are you referring to the engine gauges and the metal betwee n the individual gauges? Richard Mutzman N399RM Dayton=2C OH (Home of AYA 2010) =0A _________________________________________________________________=0A Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Overlays
Date: Oct 12, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
my overlay has individual openings for the gauges. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Mutzman <rcmutz(at)msn.com> Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:22 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Overlays Gary, ? Got the message on the overlay and eyebrow. ? I am familiar with the Kokaska overlay, but what is different about the gauge openings.? Are you referring to the engine gauges and the metal between the individual gauges? Richard Mutzman N399RM Dayton, OH (Home of AYA 2010) Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Metal to Metal bonding
Date: Oct 12, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
I was lucky enough, last night, to get an email and learn that alodining the aft end for M2M bonding was a waste of time because it won't work. ?The argument was that only anodizing will work. ?Anodizing is out of the question. ?So, last night I agonized and spent 5 hours on the internet learning about all sorts of surfaces preparations for M2M bonding. ? I've included the .pdf file for the Hysol 9330. ?This is the adhesive I chose for bonding the horizontal braces. ?On the second page, there is a heading that starts out ... Bond Strength Performance Tensile Lap Shear Strength Tensile lap shear strength tested per ASTM D1002 after curing as shown below. Adherends are 2024-T3 Alclad aluminum treated with chromic acid etch. Clearly, chromic acid etch is not anodizing. Read the bond strengths of the various surface preparations. ?The bond strength is 5,000 psi when cured at 77 degrees for 7 days. ?The worse case is MEK wipe only (3900 psi). ?The reason I made the vertical braces 3/8 inches wider was to compensate for any reduction is bonding. ?The thought being that, at the low end, MEK wipe = 3900 psi shear strength, the wider surface would still be stronger than the original bonded vertical brace. ? This morning I talked to a structural engineer at Henkel, the supplier of the Hysol 9330, and was told that the process I did should be OK. ?"Should" ?She told me that they haven't done a lot of testing with Alodine because there isn't much call for it. ?BUT, she told me their results show the bond to be a lot better than with a straight chromic acid etch. ?Not as strong as the 5700 psi with anodizing, but a lot stronger than an MEK wipe. ? I also found where B-52s, F-22s, F-16s and the like are being field repaired with Hysol 9330 using a fairly new surface preparation process, developed by Boeing, called Sol-Gen. ?I have a call into a Boeing engineer regarding that for use in our planes. Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Crash of N5840L
Date: Oct 13, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
I have been asked if I know about this crash since it's in my neighborhood and apparently?there is a lot of uninformed speculation about the events. The owner/pilot was giving young eagle rides that day. ?This was his 6th flight. ?Onboard at the time of the incident were two 14 yr old girls and a 14 or 15 yr old boy. ? I talked to the owner/pilot about the incident and was told none of the kids were ever afraid or screaming during the ensuing crash. ? The crash, if you call it that, followed what was a normal run up and take-off roll. ?At about mid-field, a helicopter took off on the adjacent taxiway. ?At that time, N5840L was at about 20 to 30 feet in the air and began losing altitude. ?It is speculated that the downwash from the helicopter blades effected the lift on the plane. ?N5840L was also blown away from the centerline (and helicopter) and toward a hill on the east end of the airport. ?The pilot kept the plane in ground effect as long as he could. ?He then decided to get the plane down as it wasn't gaining enough altitude to clear the hill. ?The plane hit tail first and he dragged the tail in a nose high attitude in an effort to get rid of any energy. ?The plane finally came to a stop at the base of the hill. ?The plane stopped when the nose gear folded under the plane. ?The pilot and the kids got out OK. ? The boy wants the propeller to mount on his wall in his bedroom. ? The girls went on the next young eagles flight. ?It was no big deal. The pilot performed a normal emergency shutdown, turning the fuel and master off prior to exiting the plane, contrary to the information promulgated ?on the 'other' site. ? The plane was totaled. ?Looking at it, it looks like it had had a new front end grafted on it sometime in the past. ?The wings are still in good shape if you're looking for standard range tanks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "923te" <923te(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Crash of N5840L
Date: Oct 13, 2009
Gary, Thanks for sharing your post on this. I had an experience with changing winds in 2002 on my way to the Cody AYA Convention. I landed short of Cody because of approaching thunderstorms. During my approach, downwind and base, winds were as broadcast by ATIS. However, upon flairing an abrupt change in wind direction and velocity was encountered. Ground speed increased while airspeed decayed and the runway was rapidly moving to the left. I found the ground rapidly approaching and chose to force the Tiger onto the runway before leaving it to the right. A porpoise ensued which led to a minor propstrike that night. I did not think it could be powered out of at the time. Normally, I would have gone around however, the wind was so strong and turbulent that I was glad I got safely on the ground. All this to say that I can empathise with what the pilot encountered and can confirm that this "wind shear" or whatever one would call it does occur and when encountered gives a feeling of hopelessness as to beating it. Things happen very fast. I think the pilot made good decisions and did a very good job defeating the wind and surviving what could have been a catastrophy. Regards, ned ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2009
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Crash of N5840L
teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote: > I have been asked if I know about this crash since it's in my > neighborhood and apparently there is a lot of uninformed speculation > about the events. > > The owner/pilot was giving young eagle rides that day. This was his 6th > flight. Onboard at the time of the incident were two 14 yr old girls > and a 14 or 15 yr old boy. > > I talked to the owner/pilot about the incident and was told none of the > kids were ever afraid or screaming during the ensuing crash. > > The crash, if you call it that, followed what was a normal run up and > take-off roll. At about mid-field, a helicopter took off on the > adjacent taxiway. Here's a neat video of 'copter downwash!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7iul2vENIA Linn At that time, N5840L was at about 20 to 30 feet in > the air and began losing altitude. It is speculated that the downwash > from the helicopter blades effected the lift on the plane. N5840L was > also blown away from the centerline (and helicopter) and toward a hill > on the east end of the airport. The pilot kept the plane in ground > effect as long as he could. He then decided to get the plane down as it > wasn't gaining enough altitude to clear the hill. The plane hit tail > first and he dragged the tail in a nose high attitude in an effort to > get rid of any energy. The plane finally came to a stop at the base of > the hill. The plane stopped when the nose gear folded under the plane. > The pilot and the kids got out OK. > > The boy wants the propeller to mount on his wall in his bedroom. The > girls went on the next young eagles flight. It was no big deal. > > The pilot performed a normal emergency shutdown, turning the fuel and > master off prior to exiting the plane, contrary to the information > promulgated on the 'other' site. > > The plane was totaled. Looking at it, it looks like it had had a new > front end grafted on it sometime in the past. The wings are still in > good shape if you're looking for standard range tanks. > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bonding
Date: Oct 14, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
If this attachment comes through, you'll see the tent I made for keeping the aft area warm. I added some blankets since this pic. Yesterday, the temp stayed between 120 and 125. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bonding
Date: Oct 16, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.com
The temp yesterday was 150 degrees. I was going to wait the full 7 days, but, I've been able to keep the temp above 120 degrees since installation and over 150 for the last 2 days. If I extrapolate the data Hysol has, it isn't linear. So, the best curve fit I can get shows that I need 120 degrees for 5 days. >From the initial 'pulling the ELT covers off' to today, I have about 30 ho urs in the project. That includes stripping and sandblasting all of the pulley brackets, horizontal stub spar, etc for powder coating, trial fitt ing, match drilling, and bonding. About the only place I can see where ti me can be saved is sealing up the aft end for alodining. I'd do the next one a little differently to save cleanup time. I still have to repair the tail tie-down area. Whoever patched it did a real hack job. BUT, they did use .040 rivets in .032 sheet metal (airfra me) to attach a piece of .025 doubler. Then, I need to prime, paint, and put it all back together. Test samples: I made 6 sets of test samples to try various surface roughn ess configurations. We'll see what the results are. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: temps
Date: Oct 17, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ned Thomas <923te(at)att.net>
Subject: EDM 830
Date: Oct 26, 2009
Hey Gary Do you have any pictures of your EDM 830 installation on Allens Tiger? Can you install them flush? Ned Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EDM 830
Date: Oct 26, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
no pics. It could probably be installed flush. hell. anything is possib le. it does sit out from the panel. not sure if I like that part. -----Original Message----- From: Ned Thomas <923te(at)att.net> Sent: Mon, Oct 26, 2009 11:29 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: EDM 830 Hey Gary Do you have any pictures of your EDM 830 installation on Allens Tiger? Can you install them flush? Ned Sent from my iPhone ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: cranking pressure
Date: Oct 26, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
Cliff, here's one for you to chew on. I've been doing both leak down and cranking pressure tests now for about a year. Tigers generally run 130-135. One Lycon Tiger was 145 across th e board. Cheetahs run about 125 to 130. I did a cranking pressure test on a Tiger last weekend with (1) 125 psi (2) 123 psi (3) 142 psi (4) 120 psi I redid the #3 4 times and got the same value. Something is changing the valve timing events enough to cause this difference. I didn't go any fur ther into it. The leak down tests were 79/78/78/78 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: horizontal braces
Date: Oct 26, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
I delivered the plane Saturday with the new horizontal braces. One observ ation: it could be me but, I think the horizontal felt stiffer than even the one on my plane. Plane flew well. I did some steep turns and pulled a couple of g's. We'll see. I have 3 more planes with cracks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject: Re: horizontal braces
Date: Oct 27, 2009
You are becoming the tail crack =22expert=22. If I run across any I'm going to send them down to you! Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 8:29 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: horizontal braces I delivered the plane Saturday with the new horizontal braces. One obser vation: it could be me but, I think the horizontal felt stiffer than even the one on my plane. Plane flew well. I did some steep turns and pulled a couple of g's. We'll see. I have 3 more planes with cracks. =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-List =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F- =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-=========================================================== -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject: Re: cranking pressure
Date: Oct 27, 2009
I've have lots of other stuff to chew on but here is a thought without givi ng it much thought! You obviously are aware of dynamic compression ratio w hich is affected by valve timing and probably more significant that static CR. I would GUESS that something is different on the #3 cylinder valve tim ing like you mentioned. Short of a camshaft that is maybe not to spec I wo uld suspect that an intake lifter is bleeding down rapidly or the dry tappe t clearance is out of spec, resulting in an early intake valve closing, les s overlap, and therefore higher dynamic CR and cranking pressure. I would wonder if the difference you are seeing would result in a rough running eng ine. How smooth does it run=3F Also there could be other factors like the actual combustion chamber cleara nce volume and therefore static CR. On my Porsche engine a .010=22 change in piston deck height changes the static CR by 0.25 points. A small change i n combustion chamber volume changes it even more. I could imagine some man ufacturing variables with the cylinder which could at least partially accou nt for the difference in cranking pressure. Seems like the easiest thing t o check or try would be to check the dry tappet clearance on at least #3 an d #4 and swap the intake hydraulic lifters and retest the cranking pressure . That might tell you a lot. Having the tester that Bill Scott uses to te st the leakdown rate would be very informative possibly. BTW, I assume the cranking pressures you mentioned for Cheetahs is with the stock engine with 7.0:1 CR=3F Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: cranking pressure Cliff, here's one for you to chew on. I've been doing both leak down and cranking pressure tests now for about a year. Tigers generally run 130-135. One Lycon Tiger was 145 across the board. Cheetahs run about 125 to 130. I did a cranking pressure test on a Tiger last weekend with (1) 125 psi (2) 123 psi (3) 142 psi (4) 120 psi I redid the #3 4 times and got the same value. Something is changing the valve timing events enough to cause this difference. I didn't go any furt her into it. The leak down tests were 79/78/78/78 =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-List =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F- =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-=========================================================== -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: cranking pressure
Date: Oct 27, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Funny you should ask about the Cheetah compression ratio. I haven't seen a stock compression ratio Cheetah in years. Those values are for the HC pistons. This particular engine with the weird #3 cranking pressure had the #1 cyli nder replaced a few months ago by Pacific Air Care in Watsonville, CA. My thought is, the plane doesn't get much use and there is a good chance the lifters are all gummed up. I wish I had seen the plane to replace the cy linder. I'd know what shape the lifters were in. When James Courtney had a cylinder fail over San Francisco bay I had a cha nce to see the lifters before I put everything back together. They were carboned up to the point they did not collapse at all. We ended up doing a complete top end overhaul. The cylinders had about 1100 hours on them and I didn't trust that the other valves would fail. Besides, you know I recommend new cylinders at 1000 hours. Whatever is weird with the #3 it's either causing the cylinder not to scav enge the exhaust or the intake event is closing early. Either way, leak down didn't show anything. -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> Sent: Tue, Oct 27, 2009 6:22 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: cranking pressure I've have lots of other stuff to chew on but here is a thought without giving it much thought! You obviously are aware of dynami c compression ratio which is affected by valve timing and probably more significant that static CR. I would GUESS that something is different on the #3 cylinder valve timing like you mentioned. Short of a camshaft that is maybe not to spec I would suspect that an intake lifter is bleeding dow n rapidly or the dry tappet clearance is out of spec, resulting in an early intake valve closing, less overlap, and therefore higher dynamic CR and cranking pressure. I would wonder if the difference you are seeing would result in a rough running engine. How smooth does it run? Also there could be other factors like the actual combustion chamber clearance volume and therefore static CR. On my Porsch e engine a .010" change in piston deck height changes the static CR by 0.25 points. A small change in combustion chamber volume changes it even more. I could imagine some manufacturing variables with the cylinder whic h could at least partially account for the difference in cranking pressure. Seems like the easiest thing to check or try would be to check the dry tap pet clearance on at least #3 and #4 and swap the intake hydraulic lifters and retest the cranking pressure. That might tell you a lot. Having the tester that Bill Scott uses to test the leakdown rate would be very informative possibly. BTW, I assume the cranking pressures you mentioned for Cheetahs is with the stock engine with 7.0:1 CR? Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: cranking pressure Cliff, here's one for you to chew on. I've been doing both leak down and cranking pressure tests now for about a year. Tigers generally run 130-135. One Lycon Tiger was 145 across the board. Cheetahs run about 125 to 130. I did a cranking pressure test on a Tiger last weekend with (1) 125 psi (2) 123 psi (3) 142 psi (4) 120 psi I redid the #3 4 times and got the same value. Something is changing the valve timing events enough to cause this difference. I didn't go any further into it. The leak down tests were 79/78/78/78 ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfersion does not have this message. ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Replacing rudder springs
Date: Oct 27, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
I got an email from one of my customers who'd seen me replace rudder sprin gs regarding a post on the other site regarding rudder spring replacement. He sent the email too. Using nickels to spread the spring so you can install it? That's a joke, right? Forward this to the experts on GG (1) Get three two-foot rubber bungie cords, the thick rubber ones. (2) Remove the seats, hook the rubber bungie cord onto the top of one of the rudder peddles and stretch it back to the seat bracket and hook it th ere. Repeat with the other two bungie cords. NOTE: You find one spring stretched, the other will be loose with no load on it all all. (3) Get some vise grips and grab the loop on the end of the old rudder spr ing. Sometimes the firewall is easier to remove, sometimes the peddle sid e. Your choice. (4) Twist the loop out of the hole where it goes through (5) Remove the spring. (6) Get the new spring, hook it on the peddle side and stretch it enough to get it on the firewall attachment. It's really quite easy. Repeat with the other side. Both springs can be replaced from the co-pilo ts side without removing the pilots console cover. I've been doing it this way for 20 years. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: IMG00070-20091027-1034.jpg
Date: Oct 27, 2009
From: "Denham, Bobby D." <BDDenham(at)lasd.org>
DQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KU2VudCB1c2luZyBCbGFja0JlcnJ5DQo ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: IMG00064-20091025-0829.jpg
Date: Oct 27, 2009
From: "Denham, Bobby D." <BDDenham(at)lasd.org>
DQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KU2VudCB1c2luZyBCbGFja0JlcnJ5DQo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
Subject: cranking pressure
Date: Oct 27, 2009
I remember freeing the lifters with you at San Rafel to install the temporary cylinder from Lycon to ferry the plane to Auburn. It was sticky! Hopefully the new owner is enjoying a trouble-free engine. I still greatly appreciate your excellent customer care in coming down to San Rafel to get things straightened out! Jamey From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:18 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: cranking pressure Funny you should ask about the Cheetah compression ratio. I haven't seen a stock compression ratio Cheetah in years. Those values are for the HC pistons. This particular engine with the weird #3 cranking pressure had the #1 cylinder replaced a few months ago by Pacific Air Care in Watsonville, CA. My thought is, the plane doesn't get much use and there is a good chance the lifters are all gummed up. I wish I had seen the plane to replace the cylinder. I'd know what shape the lifters were in. When James Courtney had a cylinder fail over San Francisco bay I had a chance to see the lifters before I put everything back together. They were carboned up to the point they did not collapse at all. We ended up doing a complete top end overhaul. The cylinders had about 1100 hours on them and I didn't trust that the other valves would fail. Besides, you know I recommend new cylinders at 1000 hours. Whatever is weird with the #3 it's either causing the cylinder not to scavenge the exhaust or the intake event is closing early. Either way, leak down didn't show anything. -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> Sent: Tue, Oct 27, 2009 6:22 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: cranking pressure I've have lots of other stuff to chew on but here is a thought without giving it much thought! You obviously are aware of dynamic compression ratio which is affected by valve timing and probably more significant that static CR. I would GUESS that something is different on the #3 cylinder valve timing like you mentioned. Short of a camshaft that is maybe not to spec I would suspect that an intake lifter is bleeding down rapidly or the dry tappet clearance is out of spec, resulting in an early intake valve closing, less overlap, and therefore higher dynamic CR and cranking pressure. I would wonder if the difference you are seeing would result in a rough running engine. How smooth does it run? Also there could be other factors like the actual combustion chamber clearance volume and therefore static CR. On my Porsche engine a .010" change in piston deck height changes the static CR by 0.25 points. A small change in combustion chamber volume changes it even more. I could imagine some manufacturing variables with the cylinder which could at least partially account for the difference in cranking pressure. Seems like the easiest thing to check or try would be to check the dry tappet clearance on at least #3 and #4 and swap the intake hydraulic lifters and retest the cranking pressure. That might tell you a lot. Having the tester that Bill Scott uses to test the leakdown rate would be very informative possibly. BTW, I assume the cranking pressures you mentioned for Cheetahs is with the stock engine with 7.0:1 CR? Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: cranking pressure Cliff, here's one for you to chew on. I've been doing both leak down and cranking pressure tests now for about a year. Tigers generally run 130-135. One Lycon Tiger was 145 across the board. Cheetahs run about 125 to 130. I did a cranking pressure test on a Tiger last weekend with (1) 125 psi (2) 123 psi (3) 142 psi (4) 120 psi I redid the #3 4 times and got the same value. Something is changing the valve timing events enough to cause this difference. I didn't go any further into it. The leak down tests were 79/78/78/78 =================================== ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =================================== ttp://forums.matronics.com =================================== ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== _____ . We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfersion does not have this message. =================================== ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =================================== ttp://forums.matronics.com =================================== ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 07:38:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
Subject: IMG00070-20091027-1034.jpg
Date: Oct 27, 2009
Flying a little low in that one? From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Denham, Bobby D. Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 1:32 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: IMG00070-20091027-1034.jpg -------------------------- Sent using BlackBerry Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 10/27/09 07:38:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: cranking pressure
Date: Oct 27, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
Hi Jamey, The new owner, Dave, loves the plane. Every year he comes up here and doe s an owner assist. Gary -----Original Message----- From: James Courtney <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net> Sent: Tue, Oct 27, 2009 6:21 pm Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: cranking pressure I remember freeing the lifters with you at San Rafel to install the temporary cylinder from Lycon to ferry the plane to Auburn. It was sticky! Hopefully the new owner is enjoying a trouble-free engine. I sti ll greatly appreciate your excellent customer care in coming down to San Rafe l to get things straightened out! Jamey From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrum man(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:18 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: cranking pressure Funny you should ask about the Cheetah compression ratio. I haven't seen a stock compression ratio Cheetah in years. Those values are for the HC pistons. This particular engine with the weird #3 cranking pressure had the #1 cylinder replaced a few months ago by Pacific Air Care in Watsonville, CA. My thought is, the plane doesn't get much use and there is a good chance the lifters are all gummed up. I wish I had seen the plane to replace the cylinder. I'd know what shape the lifters were in. When James Courtney had a cylinder fail over San Francisco bay I had a chance to see the lifters before I put everything back together. They were carboned up to the point they did not collapse at all. We ended up doing a complete top end overhaul. The cylinders had about 1100 hours on them and I didn't trust that the other valves would fail. Besides, you know I recommend new cylinders at 1000 hours. Whatever is weird with the #3 it's either causing the cylinder not to scavenge the exhaust or the intake event is closing early. Either way, leak down didn't show anything. -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> Sent: Tue, Oct 27, 2009 6:22 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: cranking pressure I've have lots of other stuff to chew on but here is a thought without giving it much thought! You obviously are aware of dynamic compression ratio which is affected by valve timing and probably more significant that static CR. I would GUESS that something is different on the #3 cylinder valve timing like you mentioned. Short of a camshaft that is maybe not to spec I would suspect that an intake lifter is bleeding dow n rapidly or the dry tappet clearance is out of spec, resulting in an early intake valve closing, less overlap, and therefore higher dynamic CR and cranking pressure. I would wonder if the difference you are seeing would result in a rough running engine. How smooth does it run? Also there could be other factors like the actual combustion chamber clearance volume and therefore static CR. On my Porsche engine a .010" change in piston deck height changes the static CR by 0.25 points. A small change in combustion chamber volume changes it even more. I could imagine some manufacturing variables with the cylinder which could at least partially account for the difference in cranking pressure. Seems like the easiest thing to check or try would be to check the dry tappet clearance on at least #3 and #4 and swap the intake hydraul ic lifters and retest the cranking pressure. That might tell you a lot. Having the tester that Bill Scott uses to test the leakdown rate would be very informative possibly. BTW, I assume the cranking pressures you mentioned for Cheetahs is with the stock engine with 7.0:1 CR? Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: cranking pressure Cliff, here's one for you to chew on. I've been doing both leak down and cranking pressure tests now for about a year. Tigers generally run 130-135. One Lycon Tiger was 145 across the board. Cheetahs run about 125 to 130. I did a cranking pressure test on a Tiger last weekend with (1) 125 psi (2) 123 psi (3) 142 psi (4) 120 psi I redid the #3 4 times and got the same value. Something is changing the valve timing events enough to cause this difference. I didn't go any further into it. The leak down tests were 79/78/78/78 ======================== =========== ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ======================== =========== ttp://forums.matronics.com ======================== =========== ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== =========== We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfersion does not have this message. ======================== =========== ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ======================== =========== ttp://forums.matronics.com ======================== =========== ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== =========== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 10/27/09 07:38:00 ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Feinstein" <david(at)newlangsyne.com>
Subject: Re: Replacing rudder springs
Date: Oct 28, 2009
# Using nickels to spread the spring so you can install it? Or just get a helper to press one rudder pedal. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject: Re: Replacing rudder springs
Date: Oct 28, 2009
Just cut a block of wood the right length to wedge between the rudder pedal and the firewall to hole it back and relieve the spring tension on the other one. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Feinstein" <david(at)newlangsyne.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:07 AM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Replacing rudder springs > > > # Using nickels to spread the spring so you can install it? > > Or just get a helper to press one rudder pedal. > > > -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Replacing rudder springs
Date: Oct 28, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
tried that, bungies are easier -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> Sent: Wed, Oct 28, 2009 6:06 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Replacing rudder springs Just cut a block of wood the right length to wedge between the rudder peda l and the firewall to hole it back and relieve the spring tension on the oth er one. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Feinstein" <david(at)newlangsyne.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:07 AM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Replacing rudder springs > > > # Using nickels to spread the spring so you can install it? > > Or just get a helper to press one rudder pedal. > > > > -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Replacing rudder springs
Date: Oct 28, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Cliff, My battery went dead. I'll call back when it's charged. -----Original Message----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Wed, Oct 28, 2009 9:24 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Replacing rudder springs tried that, bungies are easier -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> Sent: Wed, Oct 28, 2009 6:06 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Replacing rudder springs Just cut a block of wood the right length to wedge between the rudder peda l and the firewall to hole it back and relieve the spring tension on the oth er one. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Feinstein" <david(at)newlangsyne.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:07 AM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Replacing rudder springs > > > # Using nickels to spread the spring so you can install it? > > Or just get a helper to press one rudder pedal. > > > > -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ======================== ============ ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ======================== ============ ttp://forums.matronics.com ======================== ============ "_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== ============ ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject: Re: Replacing rudder springs
Date: Oct 28, 2009
OK. Mine was getting low too so I thought it was my problem. ----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:56 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Replacing rudder springs Cliff, My battery went dead. I'll call back when it's charged. -----Original Message----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wed, Oct 28, 2009 9:24 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Replacing rudder springs tried that, bungies are easier -----Original Message----- From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wed, Oct 28, 2009 6:06 am Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Replacing rudder springs > Just cut a block of wood the right length to wedge between the rudder ped al and the firewall to hole it back and relieve the spring tension on the o ther one. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: =22David Feinstein=22 <david(at)newlangsyne.c om> To: Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:07 AM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Replacing rudder springs angsyne.com> > > # Using nickels to spread the spring so you can install it=3F > > Or just get a helper to press one rudder pedal. > > > > -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ==================================== ist=22 target==22=5Fblank=22>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-List ==================================== ttp://forums.matronics.com ==================================== =22=5Fblank=22>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ==================================== =================================== ator=3FTeamGrumman-List=22>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-List =================================== ttp://forums.matronics.com =================================== ibution=22>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-List =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F- =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-=========================================================== -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Horizontal Braces
Date: Oct 29, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
I have a quick-time video with 64 pics of the horizontal braces being inst alled. Interested? Email me. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Fudge" <n26780(at)cox.net>
Subject: Horizontal Braces
Date: Oct 29, 2009
Yes please. I have a cheetah that I need to inspect. Jim Fudge From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces I have a quick-time video with 64 pics of the horizontal braces being installed. Interested? Email me. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 02:38:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Horizontal Braces
Date: Oct 29, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
I maintain 26781 which was converted to a Tiger. I tried sending the vide o but it was too large. I'll cut it down. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Fudge <n26780(at)cox.net> Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2009 3:01 pm Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces Yes please. I have a cheetah that I need to inspect. Jim Fudge From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrum man(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces I have a quick-time video with 64 pics of the horizontal braces being installed. Interested? Email me. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 10/29/09 02:38:00 ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Horizontal Braces
Date: Oct 29, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
I got the video down to 100MB and it still won't send. Any suggestions? -----Original Message----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:56 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces I maintain 26781 which was converted to a Tiger. I tried sending the vide o but it was too large. I'll cut it down. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Fudge <n26780(at)cox.net> Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2009 3:01 pm Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces Yes please. I have a cheetah that I need to inspect. Jim Fudge From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrum man(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces I have a quick-time video with 64 pics of the horizontal braces being installed. Interested? Email me. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 10/29/09 02:38:00 ======================== =========== ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ======================== =========== ttp://forums.matronics.com ======================== =========== ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Horizontal Braces
Date: Oct 29, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
I found a way to save it as an exported Q-time file. It's only 9MB now. It works on my computer. -----Original Message----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:35 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces I got the video down to 100MB and it still won't send. Any suggestions? -----Original Message----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:56 pm Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces I maintain 26781 which was converted to a Tiger. I tried sending the vide o but it was too large. I'll cut it down. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Fudge <n26780(at)cox.net> Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2009 3:01 pm Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces Yes please. I have a cheetah that I need to inspect. Jim Fudge From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrum man(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces I have a quick-time video with 64 pics of the horizontal braces being installed. Interested? Email me. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 10/29/09 02:38:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2009
From: matt drahz <mattd(at)drahz.com>
Subject: Re: Horizontal Braces
I will take a copy Gary! matt drahzal teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote: > I found a way to save it as an exported Q-time file. It's only 9MB > now. It works on my computer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:35 pm > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces > > I got the video down to 100MB and it still won't send. Any suggestions? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com <mailto:teamgrumman(at)aol.com> > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:56 pm > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces > > I maintain 26781 which was converted to a Tiger. I tried sending the > video but it was too large. I'll cut it down. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Fudge <n26780(at)cox.net <mailto:n26780(at)cox.net>> > To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2009 3:01 pm > Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces > > Yes please. I have a cheetah that I need to inspect. > > Jim Fudge > > *From:* owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] *On Behalf Of > *teamgrumman(at)aol.com > *Sent:* Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:40 PM > *To:* teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com > > *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces > > I have a quick-time video with 64 pics of the horizontal braces being > installed. Interested? Email me. > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List* > ** > ** > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > ** > * * > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> > 10/29/09 02:38:00 > * > > =================================== > ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > =================================== > ttp://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > * > * > > =================================== > ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > =================================== > ttp://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > * > * > > =================================== > ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > =================================== > ttp://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Fudge" <n26780(at)cox.net>
Subject: Horizontal Braces
Date: Oct 30, 2009
What is involved in converting a cheetah to a tiger. I fly out of short grass strips in northwest florida and some extra horse power sure would be nice. From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:56 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces I maintain 26781 which was converted to a Tiger. I tried sending the video but it was too large. I'll cut it down. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Fudge <n26780(at)cox.net> Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2009 3:01 pm Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces Yes please. I have a cheetah that I need to inspect. Jim Fudge From: <mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com> owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [ mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces I have a quick-time video with 64 pics of the horizontal braces being installed. Interested? Email me. <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List <http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com> www.avg.com 10/29/09 02:38:00 =================================== ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =================================== ttp://forums.matronics.com =================================== ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 02:52:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Horizontal Braces
Date: Oct 30, 2009
From: "Hosler, John" <JHOSLER(at)epri.com>
My Cheetah was converted to a Tiger under an STC in 1980. The conversion involves replacing the engine and front cowling as well as the thru spar to get the increased gross weight. John Hosler ________________________________ From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Fudge Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces What is involved in converting a cheetah to a tiger. I fly out of short grass strips in northwest florida and some extra horse power sure would be nice. From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:56 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces I maintain 26781 which was converted to a Tiger. I tried sending the video but it was too large. I'll cut it down. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Fudge <n26780(at)cox.net> Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2009 3:01 pm Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces Yes please. I have a cheetah that I need to inspect. Jim Fudge From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces I have a quick-time video with 64 pics of the horizontal braces being installed. Interested? Email me. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List> http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Horizontal Braces
Date: Oct 30, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
Funny thing about that extra horsepower. A while back on the other site there was talk of how a 150 hp Traveler was enough. Still, I've never he ard, "Gee, I wish I had less horsepower." The cost to convert your plane to a Tiger is a lot higher than just sellin g your plane and buying a TIger. It really isn't worth the cost to conver t. If you want better climb performance, do the basics. GET RID OF WEIGHT. Most planes have way too much stuff in them that is never used. Then, =A2 Sensenich prop =A2 Powerflow =A2 High Compression STC if you don't have one already =A2 Ported and polished cylinders =A2 Lycon overhaul with ported and polished cylinders and a reinde xed cam. Did you get the video? -----Original Message----- From: Jim Fudge <n26780(at)cox.net> Sent: Fri, Oct 30, 2009 6:51 am Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces What is involved in converting a cheetah to a tiger. I fly out of short grass strips in northwest florida and some extra horse power sure would be nice. From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrum man(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:56 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces I maintain 26781 which was converted to a Tiger. I tried sending the video but it was too large. I'll cut it down. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Fudge <n26780(at)cox.net> Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2009 3:01 pm Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces Yes please. I have a cheetah that I need to inspect. Jim Fudge From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumma n-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces I have a quick-time video with 64 pics of the horizontal braces being installed. Interested? Email me. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution www.avg.com 10/29/09 02:38:00 ======================== =========== ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ======================== =========== ttp://forums.matronics.com ======================== =========== ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== =========== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 10/30/09 02:52:00 ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Fudge" <n26780(at)cox.net>
Subject: Horizontal Braces
Date: Oct 30, 2009
NO still no video. From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 11:25 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces Funny thing about that extra horsepower. A while back on the other site there was talk of how a 150 hp Traveler was enough. Still, I've never heard, "Gee, I wish I had less horsepower." The cost to convert your plane to a Tiger is a lot higher than just selling your plane and buying a TIger. It really isn't worth the cost to convert. If you want better climb performance, do the basics. GET RID OF WEIGHT. Most planes have way too much stuff in them that is never used. Then, =A2 Sensenich prop =A2 Powerflow =A2 High Compression STC if you don't have one already =A2 Ported and polished cylinders =A2 Lycon overhaul with ported and polished cylinders and a reindexed cam. Did you get the video? -----Original Message----- From: Jim Fudge <n26780(at)cox.net> Sent: Fri, Oct 30, 2009 6:51 am Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces What is involved in converting a cheetah to a tiger. I fly out of short grass strips in northwest florida and some extra horse power sure would be nice. From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:56 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces I maintain 26781 which was converted to a Tiger. I tried sending the video but it was too large. I'll cut it down. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Fudge <n26780(at)cox.net> Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2009 3:01 pm Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces Yes please. I have a cheetah that I need to inspect. Jim Fudge From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces I have a quick-time video with 64 pics of the horizontal braces being installed. Interested? Email me. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution www.avg.com 10/29/09 02:38:00 ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Lis t ttp://forums.matronics.com ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 10/30/09 02:52:00 ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Lis t ttp://forums.matronics.com ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 10/30/09 02:52:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject: Re: Horizontal Braces
Date: Oct 30, 2009
I believe changing the center carry through spar is optional. I have seen a plane or two that used the Cheetah cowling and NACA air inlet and modifie d the stock Cheetah airbox with a Beech carburetor heat valve. Might be an alternative as Tiger airboxes are almost nonexistent. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: Hosler, John To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:52 AM Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces My Cheetah was converted to a Tiger under an STC in 1980. The conversion involves replacing the engine and front cowling as well as the thru spar t o get the increased gross weight. John Hosler --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumm an-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Fudge Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 9:51 AM To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces What is involved in converting a cheetah to a tiger. I fly out of short grass strips in northwest florida and some extra horse power sure would be nice. From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumm an-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:56 PM To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces I maintain 26781 which was converted to a Tiger. I tried sending the vid eo but it was too large. I'll cut it down. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Fudge <n26780(at)cox.net> To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2009 3:01 pm Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces Yes please. I have a cheetah that I need to inspect. Jim Fudge From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumm an-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrumman(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:40 PM To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Braces I have a quick-time video with 64 pics of the horizontal braces being ins talled. Interested=3F Email me. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-Listhttp://forums.matronic s.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-List =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F- =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-=========================================================== -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During
November! Dear Listers, Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's solely through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. There is NO advertising to support the Lists. You might have noticed the conspicuous lack of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics Email List email messages and web site pages such as the Matronics List Forums ( http://forums.matronics.com ), the List Wiki ( http://wiki.matronics.com), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matronics.com/search ), the List Browser ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements. During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution counts! Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates. This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/). These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support of the Lists again this year!! You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount!! To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral support over the years! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: November List Fund Raiser
A couple of years ago I implemented an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, he or she will instantly cease to receive these Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple. Don't you wish PBS worked that way! :-) I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site such as this one. It also goes to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List sites. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages, when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum. The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Reminder
Dear Listers, Just a quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided for my your Contributions during this time of the year. Your personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free. Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists
Dear Listers, There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums. The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November Fund Raiser. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution too! You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551-0347 Thank you in advance for your generous support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Fund Raiser List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution
Today! Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Fund Raiser
Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well! Please make your Contribution today: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
Subject: OT: Angel Flight return leg mission 152790
Date: Nov 11, 2009
I'm picking up a couple on an Angel Flight from Arcata, CA (ACV) to Palo Alto on Sunday morning. We're all set for Sunday but the woman travelling with her significant other who is headed to Stanford for treatment expressed some concern that the return leg scheduled for Thursday (11/19) hadn't been filled yet. Thus, if you're an Angel Flight West pilot looking for a flight in Northern CA in the next week or so I know they'd appreciate someone picking up that return leg. Best, Jamey ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Speaking of speed
Date: Nov 12, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
Flew to Novato last weekend. Calm air. 14C OAT. Straight and level at 4500 feet. Wide-open throttle. 160 KTAS. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Weird chirping (sounded like a small bird)
Date: Nov 12, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
One of my customers was flying his 2004 Tiger yesterday and from behind th e engine gauges he heard this chirping (if you make a high pitched, "CHEEP " repeated at 1 second intervals that about duplicates it.) He called while on the ground and I could hear it in the background. Pull ing the circuit breaker for the engine gauges stopped the chirping. Reset ting the CB it returned. Any ideas????? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "923te" <923te(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: 160Knot TIger
Date: Nov 12, 2009
Wahoooooo Finally made it! Congrats Gary Now when can I have one of those 160Knot cowlings on my AG5B? No not a year from now..... ned ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Goeke" <rtgoeke@rea-alp.com>
Subject: AuCountry Aviation
Date: Nov 12, 2009
I'm trying to get a hold of Gary for the past week to buy a new Grumman eyebrow...Does anyone know if the phone number on his webpage is still correct? Thanks Randy Goeke AA1A N2CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject: Re: AuCountry Aviation
Date: Nov 12, 2009
Try 530-613-6488 Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy Goeke To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:43 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AuCountry Aviation I'm trying to get a hold of Gary for the past week to buy a new Grumman e yebrow...Does anyone know if the phone number on his webpage is still correct=3F Thanks Randy Goeke AA1A N2CA =5F-=========================================================== =5F- =5F-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- =5F-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) =5F- =5F-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on =5F-= the Contribution link below to find out more about =5F-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided =5F-= by: =5F-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com =5F-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com =5F-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com =5F- =5F-= List Contribution Web Site: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F- =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F- =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FTeamGrumman-List =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F- =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F- =5F-=========================================================== -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AuCountry Aviation
Date: Nov 12, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
(530) 613-6488 -----Original Message----- From: Randy Goeke <rtgoeke@rea-alp.com> Sent: Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:43 pm Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AuCountry Aviation I'm trying to get a hold of Gary for the past week to buy a new Grumman eyebrow...Does anyone know if the phone number on his webpage is still correct? Thanks Randy Goeke AA1A N2CA ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bert Gilling <grumman932te(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: AuCountry Aviation
Date: Nov 12, 2009
(530) 613-6488 is Gary's correct cell. In my experience=2C Gary answers pro mptly=2C almost 24/7. Keep trying! He is worth it. Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AuCountry Aviation Date: Thu=2C 12 Nov 2009 22:46:17 -0500 From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com (530) 613-6488 -----Original Message----- From: Randy Goeke <rtgoeke@rea-alp.com> Sent: Thu=2C Nov 12=2C 2009 2:43 pm Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AuCountry Aviation I'm trying to get a hold of Gary for the past week to buy a new Grumman eyebrow...Does anyone know if the phone number on his webpage is still correct? Thanks Randy Goeke AA1A N2CA ric.com">www.aeroelectric.com w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com thelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Some Very Nice Comments...
Dear Listers, I've been getting some really nice comments from Listers along with their List Support Contributions. I've shared some of them below. Please read them over and see what your fellow Listers think of the Lists and Forums. Please make a Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation of these services. There are lots of sweet gifts available, so browse the extensive selection and pickup a nice item along with your qualifying Contribution. http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ----------- What Listers Are Saying About The Lists ----------- Few things in life bring more usefulness than the List. This is worth every penny! Stephen T. I have enjoyed the list for way too many years, but continue to get closer to flying my project with the help of listers. C.L. Thanks for this List. It's been a great source of encouragement and information. Arden A. Great service! Gerald T. It's always interesting reading the lists and I've gotten some good help from the issues and answers there. Steve T. Been a member of the List for 12 years. Keep up the good work. John H. Great Site! Harry M. Great source of information... Martin H. Thanks for providing this great service! Jeff P. I continue to get and give information through these lists. Ralph C. This is a wonderful resource! Warren H. This is what inernet was meant for, sharing information and experience. Michael W. Thanks for making such a good list! Fred D. Thanks for running a great service! Michael F. I really appreciate it. Dan H. Thanks for the great service. Michael L. Thanks for maintaining this great resource. John C. Your sites have been a great resourses and an introduction to many competent aircraft designers and fabricators. Jon M. Thanks for all that you do to maintain the Matronics forums and for the personal help that you have been to me in answering my questions regarding the use of the forums. William B. [The List] helped me get flying, fly off my test hours and make my systems better. Ralph C. The Universe is a better place because of you. Eric J. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Feinstein" <david(at)newlangsyne.com>
Subject: Re: Weird chirping (sounded like a small bird)
Date: Nov 13, 2009
# from behind th e engine gauges he heard this chirping (if you # make a high pitched, "CHEEP " repeated at 1 second intervals # that about duplicates it.) A friend just posted to another list about a weird noise like that. Turned out to be a crack in his muffler, which led to his CO detector actually working. It's a possibility. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Feinstein" <david(at)newlangsyne.com>
Subject: summer memories
Date: Nov 14, 2009
Q: What do you call a beautiful morning after two days of wind and rain? A: Monday. That's how our weekend is shaping up in the Northeast, so here's some rainy-day reading. Last July, Barbara and I flew a Grumman Tiger (sorry, Mooney pilots!) from Connecticut to Alberta, and took a lot of pictures. The story is here: http://newlangsyne.com/yqf/ If you use a popup blocker, please turn it off or you'll only see the thumbnails, not the real photos. To those pilots who thought Alberta was a lousy place for a fly-in, I respectfully disagree. It took a little bit of actual aviating to pull it off, but it was more than worth the effort. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Mutzman <rcmutz(at)msn.com>
Subject: Overlay and Eyebrow
Date: Nov 14, 2009
Gary=2C Please drop me an e-mail when the overlay and eyebrow ships so I can be on the lookout for it. Richard Mutzman rcmutz(at)msn.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more. http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T: WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen:112009v2 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: summer memories
Date: Nov 14, 2009
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Thanks, that looked like a fun trip. -----Original Message----- From: David Feinstein <david(at)newlangsyne.com> Sent: Sat, Nov 14, 2009 6:05 am Subject: TeamGrumman-List: summer memories ne.com> Q: What do you call a beautiful morning after two days of wind and rain? A: Monday. That's how our weekend is shaping up in the Northeast, so here's some rainy-day reading. Last July, Barbara and I flew a Grumman Tiger (sorry, Mooney pilots!) from Connecticut to Alberta, and took a lot of pictures. The story is here: http://newlangsyne.com/yqf/ If you use a popup blocker, please turn it off or you'll only see the thumbnails, not the real photos. To those pilots who thought Alberta was a lousy place for a fly-in, I respectfully disagree. It took a little bit of actual aviating to pull it off, but it was more than worth the effort. ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
Subject: summer memories
Date: Nov 14, 2009
Nice stuff David. The mining equipment and history are remarkable and it was great to see some pictures of the Keweenaw Peninsula as I've not been there in some years. I have fond memories of driving up through Copper Harbor to catch a ferry to Isle Royal for canoe/kayak trips. Best, Jamey -----Original Message----- From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Feinstein Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 6:06 AM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: summer memories Q: What do you call a beautiful morning after two days of wind and rain? A: Monday. That's how our weekend is shaping up in the Northeast, so here's some rainy-day reading. Last July, Barbara and I flew a Grumman Tiger (sorry, Mooney pilots!) from Connecticut to Alberta, and took a lot of pictures. The story is here: http://newlangsyne.com/yqf/ If you use a popup blocker, please turn it off or you'll only see the thumbnails, not the real photos.

August 04, 2009 - November 14, 2009

TeamGrumman-Archive.digest.vol-aw