Yak-Archive.digest.vol-az

May 13, 2002 - May 27, 2002



      
      Ernie
      ----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Power Settings
> > At 03:09 PM 5/12/2002, you wrote: > > > > > > Max continuous power is 2250 RPM and 710 mm (28") hg MAP. You can > > > maintain this all day long (theoretically). > > > > > > For acro I normally use 2150 RPM and 685 mm (27") hg MAP. Fuel burn seems > > > to be about 16 GPH in this configuration. > > > > > > For economy cruise I do the following: > > > > > > Climb to 11,500', reduce the MAP by 25mm (1") with the throttle, set 1850 > > > RPM, and lean for peak EGT. > > > >Brian, > >I am not sure what you mean when you say "peak EGT". Do you mean max EGT, or > >some other value? > > Max EGT. Slowly lean the mixture and wait for the EGT to stabilize. As > you continue to lean the EGT will continue to rise until you get to a point > where further leaning results in a drop in EGT. You then want to richen > the mixture to get back to the peak value. > > Theoretically you can run on the lean side of peak EGT but I have found > that the Housai engine will start to surge. I suspect that the carb > changes the mixture slightly as the mass airflow changes, the engine power > then changes, which causes a change in prop pitch. It will then just cycle > back and forth about 50 RPM until you richen the mixture. > > In spam cans you are normally admonished not to run at peak EGT or you > might cause damage to the engine. This is because the cylinders in a > carburated Lycoming or Continental engine get very different mixtures. One > cylinder may be at 100 degrees rich of peak EGT while another is running at > peak EGT. OTOH, the supercharger does a good job of further atomizing and > mixing the fuel/air mix thus delivering the same mixture to all the > cylinders. This lets you run closer to or even on the lean side of peak > EGT, power permitting. Lean of peak operation was normal for the big > radial engines in cruise. > > Lycoming says that once you get below about 65% power there is nothing you > can do with the mixture control that will hurt the engine so I am > extrapolating that to imply that running the Housai engine at peak EGT at > low power settings is not going to hurt anything either. At the power > settings I was talking about, 1850 RPM and about 21" MAP, I get a rough > calculation of 52% power so I think we are pretty safe. > > > Brian Lloyd > brian(at)lloyd.com > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: MP settings
Date: May 13, 2002
ahhhh thanks! Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: MP settings > > At 03:32 PM 5/12/2002, you wrote: > > > >Brian Lloyd wrote: > > > > > > > > > At 02:21 AM 5/12/2002, you wrote: > > > >Why this debate about MP setting? Its all in the book, dont tell me > > > >there are no books on the a/c in the USA !! > > > > > > I have looked through the books and I don't see anything that looks at all > > > like the kind of power setting chart I am used to seeing. Sure there are > > > references to power settings in different configurations but they don't > > > give any percentages or fuel flows. > > > > >Brian; > > > >Do you have Chapter VIII, page 188 of the "Supplementary Description of > >the Chujiao-6 J1A Airplane" ? It has a table comparing the 260 & 285HP > >models with: RPM settings, MP, HP for setting and fuel flow > >(grams/HP-Hr). > > Nope, I have not seen that. OTOH, I have the "free" CD here so I can > perhaps look it up. ... > > I did. It is there. I had not seen that before. For the rest of you > (Ernie!): > > Power RPM MAP HP fuel flow > T/O (100%) 2350 845mm 285 29.7 GPH > Rated(95%) 2250 840mm 270 26.7 GPH > 65% 1950 660mm 160 14.1 GPH > 50% 1790 600mm 130 11.0 GPH > > I calculated the fuel flow from the fuel specifics (g/hp*hr) as follows: > > g/hp*hr * hp = g/hr > g/hr * 1 lb/2200 gm = lb/hr > lb/hr * 1 gal/6 lb = gal/hr > > I use the more conservative numbers from the fuel specific column. > > No correction for altitude or density altitude so I suspect these numbers > are for sea level and standard temperature and pressure. > > > >Section 2 (page 190-191) has performance curves also. > > Yes, there is some interesting stuff there too. For those of you who want > to look at that, you can get the file from my CJ6 web site at: > > http://cj6.com/cj6_docs/Technical%20%20Specifications%20Manual/08%20CJ6A%20S upplementary%20%20Info.tif > > > Brian Lloyd > brian(at)lloyd.com > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: billm(at)corp.phoenixintl.com
Subject: Cheapo
Date: May 13, 2002
I would like to endorse what Mike wrote below. I just returned from Mike's two day aerobatic flying course in Chillicothe, and I am more excited about flying this morning than I was the day I soloed twenty two years ago. I learned more about real flying in those two days than I did in the past twenty years. It was an unbelievably fun and productive experience because: 1) My instructor was a patient and effective teacher 2) My instructor knew my airplane and its systems inside out 3) My instructor was intimately familiar with the flying characteristics of the CJ6A 4) My instructor is a fantastic aerobatic pilot himself who can teach these maneuvers with total confidence Mike didn't ask me to say these words. And I know for a fact that he is not the only guy qualified to provide the kind of experience I just had. The question is, after spending the tens of thousands of dollars it takes to own even the least expensive of these machines, why would anyone worry about spending a few hundred dollars to learn how fly it safely, and up to its potential? I feel exactly the same about maintenance. Bill McInerney -----Original Message----- From: Mike McCoy [mailto:mike(at)aircraftsales.com] Subject: Yak-List: Cheapo I agree with what Doug and Mark said about this subject, but I am not at all surprised that someone would be too cheap to spend $45 on a manual. There are many in the CJ6A community that are too cheap to buy good airplanes, maintain their airplanes, get proper training, buy manuals, checklists, or spend money to go to the clinics. Remember the guy on the Yak list that was too cheap to spend a few dollars to attend the YPA clinic? There is a guy flying around (when his airplane is flyable) that has no training because he thought my training cost was too much. He said that he knew of CFI's charging $10 per hour in GA and was too cheap to pay more for CJ6A training. I don't know about Doug and Mark but I can't afford to eat on $10 per hour. The same guy has a "mechanic" that he pays $10 per hour to maintain his airplane. Needless to say his airplane is nearly always broken down! I won't have any contact with this person and won't sell him parts. I believe that he is a hazard to the public and the CJ6A community. I have seen several people save a few dollars purchasing a bargain basement cheap CJ and then spending tens of thousands of dollars to try to keep it flying. Several of these folks have had accidents (and yes several are on this list). Anyone lurking on this list has seen people assembling their airplanes based on the info that they got on this list and in many cases they definitely have gotten what they paid for. I certainly wouldn't fly in an airplane that was built on advice from an internet list. We also see people apparently learning to fly based on info that the have gotten from the list. Again, you get what you pay for. The fact is that flying is expensive. If you don't have the money to do things right -- I suggest bowling! Mike (I have a cheap bowling ball for sale) McCoy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2002
Subject: To lean, or not to lean
From: "Barry W. Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
>> >> Personally, I would rather have the lever >> and an EGT gauge but making it automatic tends to keep the neophytes >> from >> breaking things. > > Then it should be on the 285 as well! > > No, it shouldn't. There should be an EGT or O2 sensor and a mixture > control and then students should be taught how to use them. Wait a minute? First you suggest the reason it's engineered the way it is keeps things simplified, then I use your suggestion in a parallel setting and you disagree? I'm surprised, you usually think things through better than this, but since you disagreed with me, I'll argue my point. :) A mixture control in either the CJ or the Yak is rather superfluous from a training perspective since the next step for either the Chinese or the Russians is a turbine. So teaching a student in one of these planes, in their originally intended environment, to control EGT is teaching them something they'll not use again. Correct? OTOH, you could argue that temps are important in a turbine so this helps them get used to that. However, when they do most of their flying close to the ground and don't go cross country, there doesn't seem to be much a practical advantage either, especially when considering the operating and MX procedures. There, I've said my peace. I feel much better now and will leave it alone...thanks for the cheap therapy. Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Power Settings
At 07:28 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote: > >Unfortunately, my CJ doesnt have an EGT guage and I dont think it ever came >with one. So install one. >So what did the original pilots do to find peak? They didn't. The mixture control in the CJ6A was marked in meters and you just set the lever next to your altitude. The only problem with this mechanism is that it assumes that the carburetor and its linkages are all properly adjusted. >I was told to put >the mixture lever parallel to the throttle, but that sounds a bit crude. Not only is it crude, it is wrong. Stock CJ6As have an interconnect tab that automatically moves the mixture control to full rich when the throttle is retarded. (The mixture lever is prevented from being more forward than the throttle lever.) The only problem is that it allows you to move the mixture control to full lean when the throttle is fully open. I dislike this mechanism because sometimes it makes sense to lean the engine during ground operation. All CJ6As I have seen have removed this tab. The bottom line is knowing what the mixture actually is. There are two ways I know of to do this easily: measure EGT or measure oxygen content in the exhaust. EGT is itself indirect because you have to adjust the mixture to see the effect on EGT to identify the proper mixture. Peak EGT occurs at the point of proper stochastic mixture, i.e. the proper ratio of fuel to oxygen that results in total combustion with neither excess fuel nor excess O2 in the exhaust. The oxygen sensor is an even better way to determine mixture because it actually measures excess O2 (mixture too lean). This is how computers in automobile engines measure and adjust the mixture automatically. So without either an EGT or an O2 sensor/display, you really have no idea what the mixture is in your airplane. You have to trust that the carb and linkage are properly adjusted or you have to err on the rich side to ensure not causing damage to the engine at high power settings. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: To lean, or not to lean
At 08:43 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote: > > >> > >> Personally, I would rather have the lever > >> and an EGT gauge but making it automatic tends to keep the neophytes > >> from > >> breaking things. > > > > Then it should be on the 285 as well! > > > > No, it shouldn't. There should be an EGT or O2 sensor and a mixture > > control and then students should be taught how to use them. > >Wait a minute? First you suggest the reason it's engineered the way it >is keeps things simplified, then I use your suggestion in a parallel >setting and you disagree? I'm surprised, you usually think things >through better than this, but since you disagreed with me, I'll argue my >point. :) I did think it out. I just went a little fast for you I guess. >A mixture control in either the CJ or the Yak is rather superfluous from >a training perspective since the next step for either the Chinese or the >Russians is a turbine. So teaching a student in one of these planes, in >their originally intended environment, to control EGT is teaching them >something they'll not use again. Correct? Albert Einstein once put it very profoundly, "Things should be made as simple as possible and no simpler." A radial engine is not a turbine engine. It should not be operated like a turbine engine. The pilot should be trained understand the proper operation and limitations of the equipment he/she is using. That said, let's look at the cultural background. The Russians and the Chinese come from the background of a totalitarian state where the state dictates how one should do things, including the "proper" operation of their equipment. The pilots are not encouraged to understand, only to operate by rote. From their point of view, it makes sense to hide the operating details. But hiding the operating details does not help us here in the US or other places where we are responsible for the continued safe operation of our aircraft. The "automatic" mixture control on the M14P is an open-loop servo system based on an aneroid that adjusts the mixture based on pressure altitude. While this prevents the pilot from screwing up and damaging the engine it does not prevent the aneroid from screwing up and damaging the engine. Remember, the automatic mixture control is dependent on the proper operation and ground adjustment of the automatic mixture control. If I have a manual mixture control and an EGT or O2 sensor, I now have a closed loop servo system where the pilot acts as the feedback loop. The pilot accepts EGT input and adjusts the mixture control accordingly. If the parameters of the system change with age, the pilot compensates and the engine continues to operate normally and without damage. Fortunately or unfortunately, for this to work properly the pilot needs to understand his/her role in the continued safe operation of the engine. It also increases the pilot's workload. So, if you do not want to train the pilot to understand the system, the automatic mixture control may be a better choice from the global perspective of a large fleet. If you are interested in the health and well-being of an individual aircraft, giving the pilot more training, more information, and more control is probably the better choice. YMMV. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: Power Settings
Date: May 13, 2002
On that note, does anyone know of a GEM for 9 CYL engines. I used to use the JP EDM-800 in my Dakota and it was nice to see EGT's/CHT's for all the Cylinders, as well as fuel flow. If I were to install an EGT guage is there any one cylinder better suited to the probe? My Lycoming had upto a 200 degree F difference between the hottest and coolest cylinder (the hottest cylinder not necessarily being the leanest). Why I've been doing is trying to adjust the mixture untill the engine ran rough and back it off, but I have the stupid tab installed which doesnt allow me to move the lever past the throttle, which really stinks becuase I like to run lean while I'm taxi'ing in order to not foul my plugs. Without referring me to my manual, is it a simple matter to remove the tab? Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings > > At 07:28 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote: > > > >Unfortunately, my CJ doesnt have an EGT guage and I dont think it ever came > >with one. > > So install one. > > >So what did the original pilots do to find peak? > > They didn't. The mixture control in the CJ6A was marked in meters and you > just set the lever next to your altitude. The only problem with this > mechanism is that it assumes that the carburetor and its linkages are all > properly adjusted. > > >I was told to put > >the mixture lever parallel to the throttle, but that sounds a bit crude. > > Not only is it crude, it is wrong. Stock CJ6As have an interconnect tab > that automatically moves the mixture control to full rich when the throttle > is retarded. (The mixture lever is prevented from being more forward than > the throttle lever.) The only problem is that it allows you to move the > mixture control to full lean when the throttle is fully open. I dislike > this mechanism because sometimes it makes sense to lean the engine during > ground operation. All CJ6As I have seen have removed this tab. > > The bottom line is knowing what the mixture actually is. There are two > ways I know of to do this easily: measure EGT or measure oxygen content in > the exhaust. EGT is itself indirect because you have to adjust the mixture > to see the effect on EGT to identify the proper mixture. Peak EGT occurs > at the point of proper stochastic mixture, i.e. the proper ratio of fuel to > oxygen that results in total combustion with neither excess fuel nor excess > O2 in the exhaust. > > The oxygen sensor is an even better way to determine mixture because it > actually measures excess O2 (mixture too lean). This is how computers in > automobile engines measure and adjust the mixture automatically. > > So without either an EGT or an O2 sensor/display, you really have no idea > what the mixture is in your airplane. You have to trust that the carb and > linkage are properly adjusted or you have to err on the rich side to ensure > not causing damage to the engine at high power settings. > > > Brian Lloyd > brian(at)lloyd.com > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark and Alison Haskell" <markally(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Landing Gear Woes
Date: May 13, 2002
Hi Y'all, The ol' Maineyak (YAK-52 N52MY) has landing gear that won't retract. Main Air Valve definitely ON, pressures normal, rear cockpit gear handle in neutral. Front cockpit gear lever moved up for retraction and nothing happens. Handle returned to down position and tried again with same results. Gear down lock lights remain lit - barber poles show no sign of movement. Rear cockpit gear handle cycled with no results either. But, at least it is locked down instead of up. Any thoughts on where to start? I've arranged jacks and hangar space for Thursday. Also, I've heard people saying to use Pneumatic tool oil for lubrication in the system, and I've also heard a combination of Alcohol and Glycerine bantered about. I want to do what is right and best, not just cheap or easy. Please educate me on what the right stuff is - including where to get it and how to mix it if necessary. Thanks a lot! Mark Haskell N52MY markally(at)gwi.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2002
From: D Zeman <curious_wings(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Cheapo
Mr McCoy, I want to preface saying that I am reasonably sure you are trying your best to help people on this list. But from your past postings it is evident that you are a man of extremes. There is cheapo flying and spend-it-at-will flying and a lot in between. This you seem to forget or it gets lost in your postings. I consider myself a frugal flyer and aircraft owner. I assure you that my plane is maintained in immaculate condition and my training was excellent and ongoing. I have plenty of money to own, fly and maintain my aircraft, but I will not waste money. I do not buy Avgas at my airport because it is over a $1 more per gallon that at the self-serve just across the way. Both FBOs get the gas from the SAME distributor! So why would you pay more when you dont have to for the same thing! I buy oil in 55 gallon drums to save money why pay $3 a quart when you can get the SAME thing for less? Now I know you are going to say not all maintenance and training is on the same level I agree. But when people can get the same or better for a lesser price why not? It is silly not to shop around and get the BEST DEAL. The key word is best not cheapest. But let us examine the other extreme. Just because it is expensive does not mean it is the best! Your comments about online maintenance advice are well taken if we are taking about major components and difficult tasks. But getting a heads-up about cleaning a check value, downloading a diagram and doing it yourself (with youre A&Ps supervision) is fine. Getting some help in troubleshooting and benefiting from someone elses experience is great! And I think you are wrong if you are trying to stifle this soft of knowledge transfer. On that note, asking someone what entry speed they use on their loops should not be a problem if you have had the training to perform such maneuvers. Granted, everyone should get some transition, unusual attitude and aerobatic training if they are going to perform such flights. But just because someone puts a high price on his or her training means nothing. Pilots and owners can safely fly, enjoy, maintain and own CJs and Yaks without attending YPA clinics (and with respect) and/or buying parts from your company. Knowledge is your best asset. Communication over the Internet and this email list are a couple of sources (not the end all). Gather your knowledge, learn all you can and make best deal choice. Blindly spending all you can to fly can get youre a** in as much trouble as spending as little as you can. D (Dont be fooled a high price tag) Zeman Frugal Flyer http://launch.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: DG/Flux Gate
Date: May 13, 2002
My DG has now decided to act funny, when I push the button it just goes round and round but doesnt stop at the correct heading like it used to. I can stop it at the right heading and it will keep a relative heading. I guess the flux gate isnt working, has anyone else experienced this and is there a simple fix for it or am I S.O.L Ernie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG(at)Cairnwood.com>
Subject: Landing Gear Woes
Date: May 13, 2002
Mark Haskell: Things to check for re: landing gear not retracting - You may have a shuttle valve ball stuck/deformed allowing high pressure air to pass to low pressure side. The balls can easily be replaced once you determine which valve is the suspect. I've replaced all three balls (one valve for each gear) and my plane is a 1996. I gave the ball info to Carl Hays and he sells them (it is a US made ball). Contact me off line for more details. One way to test the shuttle valves is to bleed air from high pressure side on nose gear valve. You can reach the fitting through the access panel on right side of fuselage just aft of cowl. Use 17mm wrench on top fitting. Let air bleed until you hear a thunk - shuttle valve resetting. Fly the Yak and see if gear goes up. If so, you have at least one of three shuttle valves that requires a new ball. If it does not reset, then you need to check the valve just below and to the right of pilot seat (you have to remove the seat). Sometimes this valve gets stuck and needs to be serviced (this is not a shuttle valve - this is a spring loaded check valve). You can hear air run through it when you first turn on the main spigot after the plane has set for awhile (after residual air in system has bled off). If you hear a thunk in this valve when you first turn on the main spigot then you have a shuttle valve ball that is stuck or deformed and you are not getting a good isolation from hp to low pressure side. The nose gear shuttle valve is the easiest to get to. Once removed the valves can be opened with a good vise and a good quality socket. The metal is soft so make sure you have a good mate with the socket (14mm I believe). The valves look somewhat crude from the outside but are very nicely machined on the inside. To get to the valves in the wings requires removal of the umpteen screws in the access panels around the gear legs. Takes patience but is worth it if this is your problem. The replacement balls are Buna-n material at 60 or 70 d and I have had them in place for over 100 hours and no gear retraction problems. Another way to test the shuttle valves is to mount the plane on jacks and watch carefully which gear legs move and which don't upon activation of the gear leaver. In my case we had one (the left main) stay locked down and the other gear each moved just a bit. I pulled the valve and opened it and the ball was very distorted - more egg shaped than round. I decided to do all three. My spares kit had two extra shuttle valves but the balls in each were also out of round! That's when I went hunting for replacement balls (no comments from the demented left coasters!). Tool oil is what we use. Don't need much. I also charge my emergency bottle with nitrogen rather than air. Best, Reade Genzlinger Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation 215.914.0370 readeg(at)cairnwood.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KingCJ6(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2002
Subject: Re: DG/Flux Gate
Ours did something similar and it turned out to be an inexpensive (cheapo) vacuum tube in the amplifier box. I believe Doug Sapp still has these tubes in stock, priced very reasonably. Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: Landing Gear Woes
Date: May 13, 2002
Mark, In looking at the schematic the only items that are common to all three landing gear is main air valve; main air tank and the gear valve/lever itself. If you started with the gear handle in the rear cockpit in the neutral position and tried retracting the gear using the front cockpit handle with nothing happening, my first suspicion would be a bad front cockpit gear valve/lever assembly. But that's not going to always be the case because the rear valve/lever is the main and it in other than the neutral position overrides the front. Dennis Savarese ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark and Alison Haskell" <markally(at)gwi.net> Subject: Yak-List: Landing Gear Woes > > Hi Y'all, > > The ol' Maineyak (YAK-52 N52MY) has landing gear that won't retract. > Main Air Valve definitely ON, pressures normal, rear cockpit gear handle > in neutral. Front cockpit gear lever moved up for retraction and > nothing happens. Handle returned to down position and tried again with > same results. Gear down lock lights remain lit - barber poles show no > sign of movement. Rear cockpit gear handle cycled with no results > either. But, at least it is locked down instead of up. Any thoughts on > where to start? I've arranged jacks and hangar space for Thursday. > Also, I've heard people saying to use Pneumatic tool oil for lubrication > in the system, and I've also heard a combination of Alcohol and > Glycerine bantered about. I want to do what is right and best, not just > cheap or easy. Please educate me on what the right stuff is - including > where to get it and how to mix it if necessary. Thanks a lot! > > Mark Haskell > N52MY > markally(at)gwi.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Cheapo
At 07:14 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote: > >I agree with what Doug and Mark said about this subject, but I am not at all >surprised that someone would be too cheap to spend $45 on a manual. Which manual? There are quite a few of them and several of them are of little use to the pilot. For people who want to just read about it and try to understand the systems, a set of ten manuals at $45 apiece may be prohibitive. The scans on the CD-ROM (now on the CJ6 web site) may be sufficient for them. I know that I prefer paper manuals especially for material that I look up all the time. But for occasional use I will just ask the question or borrow someone else's manual. I am not likely to buy a bound manual just to look at it once. Think about it, neither Cessna nor Lycoming provide overhaul and maintenance manuals with their aircraft. >There >are many in the CJ6A community that are too cheap to buy good airplanes, >maintain their airplanes, get proper training, buy manuals, checklists, or >spend money to go to the clinics. No one with an ounce of sense shortchanges themselves WRT training and maintenance but not everyone has an ounce of sense. Some people are consciously incompetent and prefer to remain that way. There is no help for them. >Remember the guy on the Yak list that was too cheap to spend a few dollars >to attend the YPA clinic? OTOH, have the YPA clinics done an excellent job in providing good information? Sure there is a lot of hangar flying and lots of good information flying around in bull sessions if you want to pick it up but I don't remember any formal systems, flying, or maintenance training at any YPA event. Mostly they were FAST clinics. But please correct me if I am wrong. Red Star was a bit different. In addition to FAST training there was a top-notch mechanic there giving a seminar on Yak and CJ systems. There was an emergency egress specialist talking about how to use a parachute to save your life. There was even intensive instruction in CRUD and carrier qualifications. IMHO this was a step up from the previous YPA-associated fly-ins I have attended in the past. I guess things are looking up. >There is a guy flying around (when his airplane is flyable) that has no >training because he thought my training cost was too much. He said that he >knew of CFI's charging $10 per hour in GA and was too cheap to pay more for >CJ6A training. That is his loss then, isn't it. Let's wish him good luck because he will need it. And if his luck runs out, our insurance rates will probably suffer because of it. It sucks but that is the way it is. >I don't know about Doug and Mark but I can't afford to eat >on $10 per hour. The same guy has a "mechanic" that he pays $10 per hour to >maintain his airplane. Needless to say his airplane is nearly always broken >down! I won't have any contact with this person and won't sell him parts. >I believe that he is a hazard to the public and the CJ6A community. That is your prerogative. OTOH, by working with him, answering questions, and selling him good parts maybe he and his airplane will get better. But then again, maybe not. Some people are a lost cause. >I have seen several people save a few dollars purchasing a bargain basement >cheap CJ and then spending tens of thousands of dollars to try to keep it >flying. Several of these folks have had accidents (and yes several are on >this list). Sometimes you just get what you pay for. Some people, like me, go into it with their eyes open. I got a bargain basement CJ but I knew I was going to have to rebuild it. Some people get sold a bill of goods and end up paying through the nose for it. Again, you can't fix that for them. >Anyone lurking on this list has seen people assembling their airplanes based >on the info that they got on this list and in many cases they definitely >have gotten what they paid for. I certainly wouldn't fly in an airplane >that was built on advice from an internet list. Sometimes you go where you can get information. You said that you won't help people who don't buy from you so where do they go? Heck, I bought from Yakity Yaks, was trained by Yakity Yaks, but I am still learning. That isn't a slam at Yakity Yaks, just the recognition that training is a lifetime process. It never stops. There is a lot of information out there and those of us who aren't tuned into The Oracle do what we have to do, including exchanging information on this list. You know, this can be either a positive or negative thing. It is up to you to make of it what you want it to be. >We also see people apparently learning to fly based on info that the have >gotten from the list. Again, you get what you pay for. Sometimes you get a lot more than what you pay for. Sometimes it is worth exactly what you paid for it. And sometimes you pay for it and get very little in return. Life is like that. Frankly, I think the exchange of information here is pretty good. Sometimes it is wrong but I can't remember when erroneous information went uncorrected. I know I have learned things here and I am glad that people saw fit to provide information and to correct me when I was wrong. If the yak-list offends your sensibilities so much, why don't you unsubscribe so you won't be offended all the time? >The fact is that flying is expensive. If you don't have the money to do >things right -- I suggest bowling! I did, once. I dropped the ball on my foot. It hurt like hell. The rest of the time the ball went in the gutter. Clearly I bought the ball from the wrong company. I think I'll stick with flying. It is much safer. >Mike (I have a cheap bowling ball for sale) McCoy Does your ball come with professional training? I might be interested. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Power Settings
At 12:19 PM 5/13/2002, you wrote: > >On that note, does anyone know of a GEM for 9 CYL engines. I used to use the >JP EDM-800 in my Dakota and it was nice to see EGT's/CHT's for all the >Cylinders, as well as fuel flow. If I were to install an EGT guage is there >any one cylinder better suited to the probe? My Lycoming had upto a 200 >degree F difference between the hottest and coolest cylinder (the hottest >cylinder not necessarily being the leanest). JPI has a 9-cylinder graphic engine monitor. It is pricey but it is a very good instrument. >Why I've been doing is trying to adjust the mixture untill the engine ran >rough and back it off, but I have the stupid tab installed which doesnt >allow me to move the lever past the throttle, which really stinks becuase I >like to run lean while I'm taxi'ing in order to not foul my plugs. > >Without referring me to my manual, is it a simple matter to remove the tab? I don't know. I have never seen a CJ6A with the tab still installed. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2002
From: brian olofsson <brian060901(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cheapo
Speaking about being cheap, on my part. Doug just told me about one or two folks that have use auto "dounts" between the cylinders and exhaust system. My plane is down for annual and I need two of these. The cost is not the problem the time is. Dough is out and I haven't been able to reach Carl yet. Has any one had any experience with these auto exhaust gaskets. Thanks Brian At 07:14 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote: > >I agree with what Doug and Mark said about this subject, but I am not at all >surprised that someone would be too cheap to spend $45 on a manual. Which manual? There are quite a few of them and several of them are of little use to the pilot. For people who want to just read about it and try to understand the systems, a set of ten manuals at $45 apiece may be prohibitive. The scans on the CD-ROM (now on the CJ6 web site) may be sufficient for them. I know that I prefer paper manuals especially for material that I look up all the time. But for occasional use I will just ask the question or borrow someone else's manual. I am not likely to buy a bound manual just to look at it once. Think about it, neither Cessna nor Lycoming provide overhaul and maintenance manuals with their aircraft. >There >are many in the CJ6A community that are too cheap to buy good airplanes, >maintain their airplanes, get proper training, buy manuals, checklists, or >spend money to go to the clinics. No one with an ounce of sense shortchanges themselves WRT training and maintenance but not everyone has an ounce of sense. Some people are consciously incompetent and prefer to remain that way. There is no help for them. >Remember the guy on the Yak list that was too cheap to spend a few dollars >to attend the YPA clinic? OTOH, have the YPA clinics done an excellent job in providing good information? Sure there is a lot of hangar flying and lots of good information flying around in bull sessions if you want to pick it up but I don't remember any formal systems, flying, or maintenance training at any YPA event. Mostly they were FAST clinics. But please correct me if I am wrong. Red Star was a bit different. In addition to FAST training there was a top-notch mechanic there giving a seminar on Yak and CJ systems. There was an emergency egress specialist talking about how to use a parachute to save your life. There was even intensive instruction in CRUD and carrier qualifications. IMHO this was a step up from the previous YPA-associated fly-ins I have attended in the past. I guess things are looking up. >There is a guy flying around (when his airplane is flyable) that has no >training because he thought my training cost was too much. He said that he >knew of CFI's charging $10 per hour in GA and was too cheap to pay more for >CJ6A training. That is his loss then, isn't it. Let's wish him good luck because he will need it. And if his luck runs out, our insurance rates will probably suffer because of it. It sucks but that is the way it is. >I don't know about Doug and Mark but I can't afford to eat >on $10 per hour. The same guy has a "mechanic" that he pays $10 per hour to >maintain his airplane. Needless to say his airplane is nearly always broken >down! I won't have any contact with this person and won't sell him parts. >I believe that he is a hazard to the public and the CJ6A community. That is your prerogative. OTOH, by working with him, answering questions, and selling him good parts maybe he and his airplane will get better. But then again, maybe not. Some people are a lost cause. >I have seen several people save a few dollars purchasing a bargain basement >cheap CJ and then spending tens of thousands of dollars to try to keep it >flying. Several of these folks have had accidents (and yes several are on >this list). Sometimes you just get what you pay for. Some people, like me, go into it with their eyes open. I got a bargain basement CJ but I knew I was going to have to rebuild it. Some people get sold a bill of goods and end up paying through the nose for it. Again, you can't fix that for them. >Anyone lurking on this list has seen people assembling their airplanes based >on the info that they got on this list and in many cases they definitely >have gotten what they paid for. I certainly wouldn't fly in an airplane >that was built on advice from an internet list. Sometimes you go where you can get information. You said that you won't help people who don't buy from you so where do they go? Heck, I bought from Yakity Yaks, was trained by Yakity Yaks, but I am still learning. That isn't a slam at Yakity Yaks, just the recognition that training is a lifetime process. It never stops. There is a lot of information out there and those of us who aren't tuned into The Oracle do what we have to do, including exchanging information on this list. You know, this can be either a positive or negative thing. It is up to you to make of it what you want it to be. >We also see people apparently learning to fly based on info that the have >gotten from the list. Again, you get what you pay for. Sometimes you get a lot more than what you pay for. Sometimes it is worth exactly what you paid for it. And sometimes you pay for it and get very little in return. Life is like that. Frankly, I think the exchange of information here is pretty good. Sometimes it is wrong but I can't remember when erroneous information went uncorrected. I know I have learned things here and I am glad that people saw fit to provide information and to correct me when I was wrong. If the yak-list offends your sensibilities so much, why don't you unsubscribe so you won't be offended all the time? >The fact is that flying is expensive. If you don't have the money to do >things right -- I suggest bowling! I did, once. I dropped the ball on my foot. It hurt like hell. The rest of the time the ball went in the gutter. Clearly I bought the ball from the wrong company. I think I'll stick with flying. It is much safer. >Mike (I have a cheap bowling ball for sale) McCoy Does your ball come with professional training? I might be interested. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Landing Gear Woes
At 12:50 PM 5/13/2002, you wrote: > >Hi Y'all, > >The ol' Maineyak (YAK-52 N52MY) has landing gear that won't retract. >Main Air Valve definitely ON, pressures normal, rear cockpit gear handle >in neutral. Front cockpit gear lever moved up for retraction and >nothing happens. Handle returned to down position and tried again with >same results. Gear down lock lights remain lit - barber poles show no >sign of movement. Rear cockpit gear handle cycled with no results >either. When you get it up on the jacks, try cracking the b-nuts on the shuttle valve attached to the extension side of the gear actuators. This will bleed off any pressure in the emergency side of the system and allow you to retract the gear again if that is what is holding the gear down. In a CJ6A you can use the flap system to bleed off the emergency air and get the shuttle valves to move back into the normal position in flight but I don't think the Yak-52 emergency air system actuates the flaps so you can't use that mechanism. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2002
From: brian olofsson <brian060901(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Landing Gear Woes
Doubt it's this easy. But I had a similar problem. I opened my emergency bottle in flight, the back pressure locked the gear down and would not retract. The mains would unlock, but not fully retract, the front remained down and locked. I closed both tanks bleed off the pressure with the brake handle, multple squeeses, and all worked as before. Doubt it's that easy but you can always hope. Brian Mark, In looking at the schematic the only items that are common to all three landing gear is main air valve; main air tank and the gear valve/lever itself. If you started with the gear handle in the rear cockpit in the neutral position and tried retracting the gear using the front cockpit handle with nothing happening, my first suspicion would be a bad front cockpit gear valve/lever assembly. But that's not going to always be the case because the rear valve/lever is the main and it in other than the neutral position overrides the front. Dennis Savarese ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark and Alison Haskell" Subject: Yak-List: Landing Gear Woes > > Hi Y'all, > > The ol' Maineyak (YAK-52 N52MY) has landing gear that won't retract. > Main Air Valve definitely ON, pressures normal, rear cockpit gear handle > in neutral. Front cockpit gear lever moved up for retraction and > nothing happens. Handle returned to down position and tried again with > same results. Gear down lock lights remain lit - barber poles show no > sign of movement. Rear cockpit gear handle cycled with no results > either. But, at least it is locked down instead of up. Any thoughts on > where to start? I've arranged jacks and hangar space for Thursday. > Also, I've heard people saying to use Pneumatic tool oil for lubrication > in the system, and I've also heard a combination of Alcohol and > Glycerine bantered about. I want to do what is right and best, not just > cheap or easy. Please educate me on what the right stuff is - including > where to get it and how to mix it if necessary. Thanks a lot! > > Mark Haskell > N52MY > markally(at)gwi.net > > --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Landing Gear Woes
At 04:44 PM 5/13/2002, you wrote: > > > Doubt it's this easy. But I had a similar problem. I opened my emergency > bottle in flight, the back pressure locked the gear down and would not > retract. The mains would unlock, but not fully retract, the front > remained down and locked. I closed both tanks bleed off the pressure > with the brake handle, multple squeeses, and all worked as before. Doubt > it's that easy but you can always hope. Brian That is what I do with the flap circuit. On a CJ6A if you have this problem you can turn off the emergency and main air valves and then move the flap lever part way toward the up position. This will allow the system air to leak out through the flap valve including any air trapped in the emergency circuit. Once everything has bled down (as much as possible because the compressor is still running), turn the main air valve back on. I had the gear stick down in a CJ6A I was test flying recently and that is how I cleared the pressure from the emergency side of the system. The gear then came up and operated normally. When we got down we double checked and reserviced all the shuttle valves. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: Landing Gear Woes
Date: May 13, 2002
Let's not make this more difficult than it is. All three gear are doing the same thing. Not one, not two, but all three. What is common to all three? Dennis Savarese ----- Original Message ----- From: "brian olofsson" <brian060901(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Landing Gear Woes > > > Doubt it's this easy. But I had a similar problem. I opened my emergency bottle in flight, the back pressure locked the gear down and would not retract. The mains would unlock, but not fully retract, the front remained down and locked. I closed both tanks bleed off the pressure with the brake handle, multple squeeses, and all worked as before. Doubt it's that easy but you can always hope. Brian > "A. Dennis Savarese" wrote: --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" > > Mark, > In looking at the schematic the only items that are common to all three > landing gear is main air valve; main air tank and the gear valve/lever > itself. If you started with the gear handle in the rear cockpit in the > neutral position and tried retracting the gear using the front cockpit > handle with nothing happening, my first suspicion would be a bad front > cockpit gear valve/lever assembly. But that's not going to always be the > case because the rear valve/lever is the main and it in other than the > neutral position overrides the front. > > Dennis Savarese > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark and Alison Haskell" > To: > Subject: Yak-List: Landing Gear Woes > > > > > > Hi Y'all, > > > > The ol' Maineyak (YAK-52 N52MY) has landing gear that won't retract. > > Main Air Valve definitely ON, pressures normal, rear cockpit gear handle > > in neutral. Front cockpit gear lever moved up for retraction and > > nothing happens. Handle returned to down position and tried again with > > same results. Gear down lock lights remain lit - barber poles show no > > sign of movement. Rear cockpit gear handle cycled with no results > > either. But, at least it is locked down instead of up. Any thoughts on > > where to start? I've arranged jacks and hangar space for Thursday. > > Also, I've heard people saying to use Pneumatic tool oil for lubrication > > in the system, and I've also heard a combination of Alcohol and > > Glycerine bantered about. I want to do what is right and best, not just > > cheap or easy. Please educate me on what the right stuff is - including > > where to get it and how to mix it if necessary. Thanks a lot! > > > > Mark Haskell > > N52MY > > markally(at)gwi.net > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: DG/Flux Gate
Date: May 13, 2002
Great!!! Wheres the amplifier box ? Doug??? Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: <KingCJ6(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: DG/Flux Gate > > Ours did something similar and it turned out to be an inexpensive (cheapo) > vacuum tube in the amplifier box. I believe Doug Sapp still has these tubes > in stock, priced very reasonably. > > Dave > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Power Settings
Date: May 13, 2002
The oxygen sensor would be ideal, BUT they do not like lead. They would work if all you ever used was auto fuel. Frank Stelwagon CJ-6A N23021 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings > > At 07:28 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote: > > > >Unfortunately, my CJ doesnt have an EGT guage and I dont think it ever came > >with one. > > So install one. > > >So what did the original pilots do to find peak? > > They didn't. The mixture control in the CJ6A was marked in meters and you > just set the lever next to your altitude. The only problem with this > mechanism is that it assumes that the carburetor and its linkages are all > properly adjusted. > > >I was told to put > >the mixture lever parallel to the throttle, but that sounds a bit crude. > > Not only is it crude, it is wrong. Stock CJ6As have an interconnect tab > that automatically moves the mixture control to full rich when the throttle > is retarded. (The mixture lever is prevented from being more forward than > the throttle lever.) The only problem is that it allows you to move the > mixture control to full lean when the throttle is fully open. I dislike > this mechanism because sometimes it makes sense to lean the engine during > ground operation. All CJ6As I have seen have removed this tab. > > The bottom line is knowing what the mixture actually is. There are two > ways I know of to do this easily: measure EGT or measure oxygen content in > the exhaust. EGT is itself indirect because you have to adjust the mixture > to see the effect on EGT to identify the proper mixture. Peak EGT occurs > at the point of proper stochastic mixture, i.e. the proper ratio of fuel to > oxygen that results in total combustion with neither excess fuel nor excess > O2 in the exhaust. > > The oxygen sensor is an even better way to determine mixture because it > actually measures excess O2 (mixture too lean). This is how computers in > automobile engines measure and adjust the mixture automatically. > > So without either an EGT or an O2 sensor/display, you really have no idea > what the mixture is in your airplane. You have to trust that the carb and > linkage are properly adjusted or you have to err on the rich side to ensure > not causing damage to the engine at high power settings. > > > Brian Lloyd > brian(at)lloyd.com > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: Power Settings
Date: May 13, 2002
Well I want to install the JPI EGT guage with the fuel flow, I had it in my Dakota and loved it. Can someone recommend a mechaninc in the Central Florida area who is knowledgeable in CJ motors who can install it??????? Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings > > The oxygen sensor would be ideal, BUT they do not like lead. They would > work if all you ever used was auto fuel. > > Frank Stelwagon > CJ-6A N23021 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> > To: > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings > > > > > > At 07:28 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote: > > > > > >Unfortunately, my CJ doesnt have an EGT guage and I dont think it ever > came > > >with one. > > > > So install one. > > > > >So what did the original pilots do to find peak? > > > > They didn't. The mixture control in the CJ6A was marked in meters and you > > just set the lever next to your altitude. The only problem with this > > mechanism is that it assumes that the carburetor and its linkages are all > > properly adjusted. > > > > >I was told to put > > >the mixture lever parallel to the throttle, but that sounds a bit crude. > > > > Not only is it crude, it is wrong. Stock CJ6As have an interconnect tab > > that automatically moves the mixture control to full rich when the > throttle > > is retarded. (The mixture lever is prevented from being more forward than > > the throttle lever.) The only problem is that it allows you to move the > > mixture control to full lean when the throttle is fully open. I dislike > > this mechanism because sometimes it makes sense to lean the engine during > > ground operation. All CJ6As I have seen have removed this tab. > > > > The bottom line is knowing what the mixture actually is. There are two > > ways I know of to do this easily: measure EGT or measure oxygen content in > > the exhaust. EGT is itself indirect because you have to adjust the > mixture > > to see the effect on EGT to identify the proper mixture. Peak EGT occurs > > at the point of proper stochastic mixture, i.e. the proper ratio of fuel > to > > oxygen that results in total combustion with neither excess fuel nor > excess > > O2 in the exhaust. > > > > The oxygen sensor is an even better way to determine mixture because it > > actually measures excess O2 (mixture too lean). This is how computers in > > automobile engines measure and adjust the mixture automatically. > > > > So without either an EGT or an O2 sensor/display, you really have no idea > > what the mixture is in your airplane. You have to trust that the carb and > > linkage are properly adjusted or you have to err on the rich side to > ensure > > not causing damage to the engine at high power settings. > > > > > > Brian Lloyd > > brian(at)lloyd.com > > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2002
Subject: Re: Power Settings
In a message dated 5/13/02 8:58:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ernie(at)gscinc.com writes: > Well I want to install the JPI EGT guage with the fuel flow, I had it in my > Dakota and loved it. Can someone recommend a mechaninc in the Central > Florida area who is knowledgeable in CJ motors who can install it??????? > > Ernie > Ernie, There is a guy (Russian I think) just a stones throw to your west, whose worked on HS6A engines (Mike Filucci can tell you his name). Also one of George Baker's boys over at New Smyna Beach has work on both HS6A and M14Ps. Sam Sax down in MIA put one on his M14P. These guys can clue you in on the details. Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Power Settings
Date: May 13, 2002
Lead contamination only slows the response time so it will work with 100LL. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings The oxygen sensor would be ideal, BUT they do not like lead. They would work if all you ever used was auto fuel. Frank Stelwagon CJ-6A N23021 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings > > At 07:28 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote: > > > >Unfortunately, my CJ doesnt have an EGT guage and I dont think it ever came > >with one. > > So install one. > > >So what did the original pilots do to find peak? > > They didn't. The mixture control in the CJ6A was marked in meters and you > just set the lever next to your altitude. The only problem with this > mechanism is that it assumes that the carburetor and its linkages are all > properly adjusted. > > >I was told to put > >the mixture lever parallel to the throttle, but that sounds a bit crude. > > Not only is it crude, it is wrong. Stock CJ6As have an interconnect tab > that automatically moves the mixture control to full rich when the throttle > is retarded. (The mixture lever is prevented from being more forward than > the throttle lever.) The only problem is that it allows you to move the > mixture control to full lean when the throttle is fully open. I dislike > this mechanism because sometimes it makes sense to lean the engine during > ground operation. All CJ6As I have seen have removed this tab. > > The bottom line is knowing what the mixture actually is. There are two > ways I know of to do this easily: measure EGT or measure oxygen content in > the exhaust. EGT is itself indirect because you have to adjust the mixture > to see the effect on EGT to identify the proper mixture. Peak EGT occurs > at the point of proper stochastic mixture, i.e. the proper ratio of fuel to > oxygen that results in total combustion with neither excess fuel nor excess > O2 in the exhaust. > > The oxygen sensor is an even better way to determine mixture because it > actually measures excess O2 (mixture too lean). This is how computers in > automobile engines measure and adjust the mixture automatically. > > So without either an EGT or an O2 sensor/display, you really have no idea > what the mixture is in your airplane. You have to trust that the carb and > linkage are properly adjusted or you have to err on the rich side to ensure > not causing damage to the engine at high power settings. > > > Brian Lloyd > brian(at)lloyd.com > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com>
Subject: Fw: CD
Date: May 13, 2002
Am posting this again as it didn't seem to take the first time. Always yakin, Doug Sapp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com> Subject: Re: CD > Listers and lurkers, > It would seem that I have opened a ugly can of worms, and now I find myself > poised and ready to eat some Nike. I have been asked (and rightly so) to > set the record straight. > > First of all Ray Stallings and Jim Bernier did call me before they started > the CD project, and yes I did tell them that I did not have a problem with > it. I will also say it again, both guys are great guys and neither would > knowingly hurt anyone. They also informed me this morning that the total > info came from Marcus Bates Sr. with his permission to duplicate it. > > My comments were borne of my recent discovery that someone was knocking off > my Airframe Accessory Overhaul Manual (which I offered at my cost). And the > topper was a call I received from a guy (from Texas) asking if I could let > him borrow my free CD (I never received one) so he could make himself a set > of manuals!! Knowing that he was too cheap to ever actually invest in a > hard copy I read him the riot act and sent him to Ray. But the more I > thought about the more it pissed me off. I must admit that after it all > boiled down Ray's free CD has very little to do with my postings and I > apologize to both Ray and Jim for any problems my ranting may have caused > them. Theirs was unfortunately the very last little "straw that broke the > camels back". > > My opinions of our problems of copying manuals and duplicating mods has been > stated many times before so I wont bore you with them again but will close > with one last thought. And that is--I don't have a freeking clue as to how > to solve the problem. Maybe someone out there does, if so please drop me a > line. > > Always Yakin, > Doug Sapp > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ray P. Stallings" <JetJockey(at)alumni.utexas.net> > To: "Doug Sapp" > Cc: "Jim Bernier" > Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 9:39 PM > Subject: CD > > > > Dear Doug, > > > > After reading some of the postings on the Yak List today, I am very > confused > > about what has transpired. Let's set the record straight. First of all, > > none of the parts manuals that Jim Bernier and I have scanned to CD > > originated from you. Neither did any of the translations. They were > > obtained from Marcus Bates, Sr. He acquired them many years ago and had > > them translated at his cost. Jim checked with Mr. Bates and his wife > before > > we started this project and got the OK to proceed. The other documents > on > > the CD come from various other sources or were done by me. Now implore > you > > to please set the record straight on the Yak List that Jim or I did not > > steal any of your work or your investment. > > > > Doug, the thing that really hurts me about all of this is that Jim and I > > both personally spoke with you (on the telephone) about doing this before > we > > started. We didn't do this because we had to, we did it as a courtesy. > We > > didn't want you to feel we were stepping on your turf. You did not > express > > any reservations to either myself or Jim. Additionally, you personally > told > > me that you didn't have any problem with us including a scan of the PT-6 > > Overhaul Manual on the CD. My personal feeling is that you will be the > > biggest beneficiary of the CD because it will let people see how much > > information really is available in the manuals. As several others have > > stated, computers are a bitch to use. I need to be able to look at a > whole > > page and to be able to go back and forth without using a keyboard. I > think > > most people feel the same way. The CD is just a quick way to find what > you > > need without having to pull out numerous volumes. I have not doubts that > > you will still sell manuals and you will also have the benefit of having > > people be able to call you with exact part numbers instead of just saying, > > "I need the gasket for the widget on the square part of the bottom of the > > engine....." > > > > As I think Jim and I both told you when we spoke, the whole idea in doing > > this was to try to obtain the best possible set of copies to provide to > the > > CJ community in order to foster a better knowledge of the aircraft and to > > promote safety. Everyone that I know has different manuals of differing > > quality. If we can get the best of the best and combine them into one > > "Master Database" everyone associated with these aircraft will benefit in > > the long run. > > > > As far as Brian Lloyd goes; he has not been forthcoming about how and why > he > > got the CD. Jim Bernier sent him a copy with the understanding he was > going > > to reproduce it and distribute it FREE OF CHARGE at the recent Red Star > > event. Apparently Brian saw this as an opportunity to turn a few bucks. > > According to his math it costs about $20 to produce a CD. My experience > has > > been that it costs about $0.75 (postage included). Maybe I'm a naive > > country boy, but trying to make a buck at the expense of someone's safety > or > > aircraft systems knowledge is simply a concept I don't subscribe to. > > > > Doug, we have personally never met but I feel like I know you pretty well > > from our telephone and email exchanges. I hope you understand my deep > > disappointment from what I have read. As I said before, Jim and I have > > absolutely no intention of hurting your business. That would be self > > defeating. If Jim and I wanted to make a couple fast bucks, we would be > > hawking the CDs, not Mr. Lloyd. Please take the time to read the > attached > > file which is included on each CD to see what our real intent was and > still > > is. > > > > If you still feel what we are doing is causing great harm to you > personally, > > please let me know and we will stop distributing the CD and I will destroy > > the master disk. You have my word on it. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Ray > > > > Ray P. Stallings > > 9701 Airpark Drive > > Granbury, TX 76049-4401 > > ******************************** > > Phone: 817-579-1317 > > Fax: 413-425-7783 > > Cell: 817-690-7315 > > Email: JetJockey(at)alumni.utexas.net > > ********************************* > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Samuel Sax" <cd001633(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Power Settings
Date: May 13, 2002
Ernie, I have the JPI EGT/CHT/FF in my CJ. It works great. When you order the unit, mention that it's for a CJ/Yak engine as the CHT under-the-spark-plug ring (sensor) assembly (pig tail) needs to be modified slightly for better spark plug clearance. You may want to follow up on Jim Goolsby's pointers for a qualified mechanic in your area. Sam Sax -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernie Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings Well I want to install the JPI EGT guage with the fuel flow, I had it in my Dakota and loved it. Can someone recommend a mechaninc in the Central Florida area who is knowledgeable in CJ motors who can install it??????? Ernie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: DG/Flux Gate
At 05:34 PM 5/13/2002, you wrote: > >Great!!! Wheres the amplifier box ? It is the small, roughly square grey box on the avionics tray just behind the front seat. It is shock mounted. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Power Settings
At 05:42 PM 5/13/2002, you wrote: > >The oxygen sensor would be ideal, BUT they do not like lead. They would >work if all you ever used was auto fuel. They will work for a time with leaded fuel. Here is the link for an O2 sensor product for aircraft. http://www.dica.ca/fuelmix.htm They claim a life of 200 hours for the O2 sensor when running 100LL and 1000 hours when running unleaded. And even at 200 hours, it is an automotive sensor which you can easily acquire from your local auto parts place for something like $20. Change it at your annual condition inspection. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: CD
At 02:59 PM 5/13/2002, you wrote: Interesting stuff Doug. This part was quite interesting. For some reason I don't like getting slammed like this. > > > As far as Brian Lloyd goes; he has not been forthcoming about how and > why he > > > got the CD. Gee, that sounds like you are accusing me of some sort of duplicity. The truth is, I lost Jim's message and didn't remember who had sent the CD to me. Still, I tried to make the CD available. > > > Jim Bernier sent him a copy with the understanding he was going > > > to reproduce it and distribute it FREE OF CHARGE at the recent Red Star > > > event. Apparently Brian saw this as an opportunity to turn a few bucks. Oh man, I love this. At $20 a pop I doubt I would ever make any money at this. I can certainly think of better ways to spend my time to "turn a few bucks." But I have produced and distributed software before. I have to drive down, buy the blank CDs, buy the mailers, dupe the CDs, test the CDs to make sure they read on another drive, stuff them, take them to the post office, pay postage, and mail them. I don't see how I can cover my costs at $.75 a copy. I did go down and buy blank CDs for this. I paid $25 for a pack of 50 Memorex blank CDs. That is $.50/ea. Mailers are at least $.50/ea. Postage is going to be at least $.50. OK, that is $1.50. I did have to drive my car down, I do have to drive to the post office, and I have to babysit the computer instead of doing something else, and I have to verify each CD on a separate computer, not to mention the wear and tear on my CD burner and making the computer unavailable for other tasks. That adds up to time and money. Maybe doing one or two is a favor but if 50 people ask for a copy of the disk it becomes real work. I think that I am entitled to some compensation for time, effort, and material. > > > According to his math it costs about $20 to produce a CD. My > experience has > > > been that it costs about $0.75 (postage included). As you can see above, my materials cost is above that. But it isn't the materials that cost, it is the time. I picked that $20 price out of the air. > > > Maybe I'm a naive > > > country boy, but trying to make a buck at the expense of someone's > safety or > > > aircraft systems knowledge is simply a concept I don't subscribe to. Jeez, louise. By your reckoning Doug Sapp should give away parts at cost, Mike McCoy shouldn't charge for instruction, and Bill Blackwell should just fix people's airplanes for free because, in your words, "trying to make a buck at the expense of someone's safety or aircraft systems knowledge is simply a concept I don't subscribe to." And if you think I am in this for the money, let me point out what I have already done: 1. I got the Yak-list set up with Matt Dralle; 2. I set up the web site for CJ6.org; 3. I provide the web site for the Yak Pilots Association on my server free-of-charge; 4. I am providing a home for the contents of the disk for free on my web server; 5. I did the initial leg-work to get AOPA to do their spread on formation flying and then hooked them up with Mike Filucci when it didn't work out for me to do the instruction on the west coast. So far I haven't gotten paid for any of this. Yeah, but I guess I am still an evil money-grubbing capitalist whore. And all I wanted to do was to cover my costs so that I don't lose money. Hey, for what it is worth, let's do it the old fashioned way. Let people vote with their wallets. It is their money and if they think that $20 is excessive they won't ask me to send them a copy of the CD. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com>
Subject: Re: DG/Flux Gate
Date: May 13, 2002
Ernie, Find someone with a CJ with an operable system, swap parts until yours works, tell me what you need. Sorry, I know that's not very easy, but that the most efficient way to solve your problem. Start with the amp box it has several old vacuum type radio tubes in it. I don't have the individual tubes but I have the complete new box. Good hunting. Always yakin, Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> Subject: Yak-List: DG/Flux Gate > > My DG has now decided to act funny, when I push the button it just goes > round and round but doesnt stop at the correct heading like it used to. > I can stop it at the right heading and it will keep a relative heading. > I guess the flux gate isnt working, has anyone else experienced this and > is there a simple fix for it or am I S.O.L > > Ernie > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2002
From: Mark Schrick <schrick(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Cheapo's ????? Every group has them (EVERY GROUP)
Hey Mike, Why don't write what you REALLY FEEL !!!! As in any club, group, or ownership you will have these type of people but they are not the majority or some have the abilities to assemble, ask questions and SAFLY assemble, certify and maintain their own aircraft. Everyone has there own opinion and has the right to choose what is best for them under the guidiness of the FAA and FAR's. Not every CJ that has been brought into this country has had a perfect record. Just because someone pays $110K for an aircraft verus a $50K one does that really mean that plane is better? Sound like an opinion more than fact based survey. Flying is expensive but some people have more time than money and we all have to determine which vain to follow and when it is SMART and legal to obtain professional help with our birds. Training is a MUST and I hope everyone feels that way. Brian Llyod and the group of instructors at REDSTAR Gathering stated it best: "Check your egos at the door so we can all be SAFE and LEARN something this weekend !!!" Heavy on the SAFE PART. I support training but I get all the training I can get but some need to learn though other means. As long as people are getting trained in some way. If not it becomes a liablity for all of us and the insurance companies will raise rates. Not good. Look at Glasairs, RV's, and Lancairs, rates have increased 3 times in two years and dropped many aircraft from insuring them. My two cents worth (too cheap to put in a dollar) Regards, Mark Schrick (Not the Mark that Mike was referring too I hope) YAK 52 400HP San Jose, CA FAST training, Acro trained, hired Vladamir to do annuals, No time to do my own work so write checks now !!!! And still Married. > >I agree with what Doug and Mark said about this subject, but I am not at all >surprised that someone would be too cheap to spend $45 on a manual. There >are many in the CJ6A community that are too cheap to buy good airplanes, >maintain their airplanes, get proper training, buy manuals, checklists, or >spend money to go to the clinics. > >Remember the guy on the Yak list that was too cheap to spend a few dollars >to attend the YPA clinic? > >There is a guy flying around (when his airplane is flyable) that has no >training because he thought my training cost was too much. He said that he >knew of CFI's charging $10 per hour in GA and was too cheap to pay more for >CJ6A training. I don't know about Doug and Mark but I can't afford to eat >on $10 per hour. The same guy has a "mechanic" that he pays $10 per hour to >maintain his airplane. Needless to say his airplane is nearly always broken >down! I won't have any contact with this person and won't sell him parts. >I believe that he is a hazard to the public and the CJ6A community. > >I have seen several people save a few dollars purchasing a bargain basement >cheap CJ and then spending tens of thousands of dollars to try to keep it >flying. Several of these folks have had accidents (and yes several are on >this list). > >Anyone lurking on this list has seen people assembling their airplanes based >on the info that they got on this list and in many cases they definitely >have gotten what they paid for. I certainly wouldn't fly in an airplane >that was built on advice from an internet list. > >We also see people apparently learning to fly based on info that the have >gotten from the list. Again, you get what you pay for. > >The fact is that flying is expensive. If you don't have the money to do >things right -- I suggest bowling! > >Mike (I have a cheap bowling ball for sale) McCoy > > ************************************************************ Mark Schrick 966 Wallace Drive San Jose, CA 95120-1848 (408) 323-5150 Phone/Fax (408) 391-6664 (Cell) schrick(at)pacbell.net ************************************************************ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2002
From: Yak list <yaklist(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: CD
So guys, when is the first CJ6 live fire excercise going to be. Now for that all the 52 pilots would certainly buy expensive tickets..... Gus Fraser ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fw: CD > > At 02:59 PM 5/13/2002, you wrote: > > Interesting stuff Doug. This part was quite interesting. For some reason > I don't like getting slammed like this. > > > > > As far as Brian Lloyd goes; he has not been forthcoming about how and > > why he > > > > got the CD. > > Gee, that sounds like you are accusing me of some sort of duplicity. The > truth is, I lost Jim's message and didn't remember who had sent the CD to > me. Still, I tried to make the CD available. > > > > > Jim Bernier sent him a copy with the understanding he was going > > > > to reproduce it and distribute it FREE OF CHARGE at the recent Red Star > > > > event. Apparently Brian saw this as an opportunity to turn a few bucks. > > Oh man, I love this. At $20 a pop I doubt I would ever make any money at > this. I can certainly think of better ways to spend my time to "turn a few > bucks." > > But I have produced and distributed software before. I have to drive down, > buy the blank CDs, buy the mailers, dupe the CDs, test the CDs to make sure > they read on another drive, stuff them, take them to the post office, pay > postage, and mail them. I don't see how I can cover my costs at $.75 a copy. > > I did go down and buy blank CDs for this. I paid $25 for a pack of 50 > Memorex blank CDs. That is $.50/ea. Mailers are at least > $.50/ea. Postage is going to be at least $.50. OK, that is $1.50. I did > have to drive my car down, I do have to drive to the post office, and I > have to babysit the computer instead of doing something else, and I have to > verify each CD on a separate computer, not to mention the wear and tear on > my CD burner and making the computer unavailable for other tasks. That > adds up to time and money. Maybe doing one or two is a favor but if 50 > people ask for a copy of the disk it becomes real work. I think that I am > entitled to some compensation for time, effort, and material. > > > > > According to his math it costs about $20 to produce a CD. My > > experience has > > > > been that it costs about $0.75 (postage included). > > As you can see above, my materials cost is above that. But it isn't the > materials that cost, it is the time. I picked that $20 price out of the air. > > > > > Maybe I'm a naive > > > > country boy, but trying to make a buck at the expense of someone's > > safety or > > > > aircraft systems knowledge is simply a concept I don't subscribe to. > > Jeez, louise. By your reckoning Doug Sapp should give away parts at cost, > Mike McCoy shouldn't charge for instruction, and Bill Blackwell should just > fix people's airplanes for free because, in your words, "trying to make a > buck at the expense of someone's safety or aircraft systems knowledge is > simply a concept I don't subscribe to." > > And if you think I am in this for the money, let me point out what I have > already done: > > 1. I got the Yak-list set up with Matt Dralle; > > 2. I set up the web site for CJ6.org; > > 3. I provide the web site for the Yak Pilots Association on my server > free-of-charge; > > 4. I am providing a home for the contents of the disk for free on my web > server; > > 5. I did the initial leg-work to get AOPA to do their spread on formation > flying and then hooked them up with Mike Filucci when it didn't work out > for me to do the instruction on the west coast. > > So far I haven't gotten paid for any of this. Yeah, but I guess I am still > an evil money-grubbing capitalist whore. > > And all I wanted to do was to cover my costs so that I don't lose money. > > Hey, for what it is worth, let's do it the old fashioned way. Let people > vote with their wallets. It is their money and if they think that $20 is > excessive they won't ask me to send them a copy of the CD. > > > Brian Lloyd > brian(at)lloyd.com > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike McCoy" <mike(at)aircraftsales.com>
Subject: CD Order
Date: May 14, 2002
Brian, Please accept my order for 10 of the maintenance CD's at $1.00 each. If Ray is correct and your cost is $.75 each, then you'll have a 25% profit, which should be significant. I'm sure that this will more than cover your missed day of work. Could you please ship them in individual mailers? Thanks, Mike (helping Brian get rich) McCoy P.S. Even if you aren't making big bucks by selling me these CD's, please do it anyway. You wouldn't want to jeopardize my safety just because you're losing money. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cpayne(at)mc.net
Subject: List
Date: May 14, 2002
Jeez, I love this List! I'll never make fun of my wife's soap operas again....well maybe not as much. Craig "Listen'n & Lurk'n" Payne yak-list(at)matronics.com wrote: From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> Re: Yak-List: Fw: CD Interesting stuff Doug. This part was quite interesting. For some reason I don't like getting slammed like this. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: Power Settings
Date: May 14, 2002
Thanks Jim, I'll look into it. Also I'm planning to join YPA as soon as I fill in the app. Are there YPA clinics that are going to be held anytime soon. I just started my acro training with my instructor here at Leeward, but I'd like to start some formation stuff soon with you guy's. Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings > > In a message dated 5/13/02 8:58:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ernie(at)gscinc.com > writes: > > > > Well I want to install the JPI EGT guage with the fuel flow, I had it in my > > Dakota and loved it. Can someone recommend a mechaninc in the Central > > Florida area who is knowledgeable in CJ motors who can install it??????? > > > > Ernie > > > > Ernie, > There is a guy (Russian I think) just a stones throw to your west, whose > worked on HS6A engines (Mike Filucci can tell you his name). Also one of > George Baker's boys over at New Smyna Beach has work on both HS6A and M14Ps. > Sam Sax down in MIA put one on his M14P. These guys can clue you in on the > details. > Jim Goolsby > cjpilot710(at)aol.com > 386-467-3313 voice > 386-467-3193 fax > 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain > a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor > safety" > Benjamin Franklin 1759 > "There is no "innocence" in war. All > collateral damage > is acceptable." > unk. > "With my shield, or on it" > Trojan Warriors BC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com>
Subject: Re: Power Settings
Date: May 14, 2002
Call Vinny Tirado @ 305-233-5197 or 305-252-4057. He is at the Weeks Air Museum. I know he has worked on Lloyd Epperly's CJ and others also. He seems to be knowledgable. Always Yakin, Doug Sapp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings > > Well I want to install the JPI EGT guage with the fuel flow, I had it in my > Dakota and loved it. Can someone recommend a mechaninc in the Central > Florida area who is knowledgeable in CJ motors who can install it??????? > > Ernie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net> > To: > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings > > > > > > > The oxygen sensor would be ideal, BUT they do not like lead. They would > > work if all you ever used was auto fuel. > > > > Frank Stelwagon > > CJ-6A N23021 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> > > To: > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings > > > > > > > > > > At 07:28 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote: > > > > > > > >Unfortunately, my CJ doesnt have an EGT guage and I dont think it ever > > came > > > >with one. > > > > > > So install one. > > > > > > >So what did the original pilots do to find peak? > > > > > > They didn't. The mixture control in the CJ6A was marked in meters and > you > > > just set the lever next to your altitude. The only problem with this > > > mechanism is that it assumes that the carburetor and its linkages are > all > > > properly adjusted. > > > > > > >I was told to put > > > >the mixture lever parallel to the throttle, but that sounds a bit > crude. > > > > > > Not only is it crude, it is wrong. Stock CJ6As have an interconnect tab > > > that automatically moves the mixture control to full rich when the > > throttle > > > is retarded. (The mixture lever is prevented from being more forward > than > > > the throttle lever.) The only problem is that it allows you to move the > > > mixture control to full lean when the throttle is fully open. I dislike > > > this mechanism because sometimes it makes sense to lean the engine > during > > > ground operation. All CJ6As I have seen have removed this tab. > > > > > > The bottom line is knowing what the mixture actually is. There are two > > > ways I know of to do this easily: measure EGT or measure oxygen content > in > > > the exhaust. EGT is itself indirect because you have to adjust the > > mixture > > > to see the effect on EGT to identify the proper mixture. Peak EGT > occurs > > > at the point of proper stochastic mixture, i.e. the proper ratio of fuel > > to > > > oxygen that results in total combustion with neither excess fuel nor > > excess > > > O2 in the exhaust. > > > > > > The oxygen sensor is an even better way to determine mixture because it > > > actually measures excess O2 (mixture too lean). This is how computers > in > > > automobile engines measure and adjust the mixture automatically. > > > > > > So without either an EGT or an O2 sensor/display, you really have no > idea > > > what the mixture is in your airplane. You have to trust that the carb > and > > > linkage are properly adjusted or you have to err on the rich side to > > ensure > > > not causing damage to the engine at high power settings. > > > > > > > > > Brian Lloyd > > > brian(at)lloyd.com > > > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > > > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: DG/Flux Gate
Date: May 14, 2002
One other item to check is in the small flat box on the tray behind the pilots seat. The selenium rectifier inside the box may be failing, which is not uncommon as they die of old age. They can be replaced with a silicon bridge with no trouble. Just make sure the polarity is correct. Incidentally I got the first set of schematics that I could read from Doug. He doesn't have everything but what he has is good. Frank Stelwagon CJ-6A N23021 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: DG/Flux Gate > > Ernie, > Find someone with a CJ with an operable system, swap parts until yours > works, tell me what you need. Sorry, I know that's not very easy, but that > the most efficient way to solve your problem. Start with the amp box it has > several old vacuum type radio tubes in it. I don't have the individual > tubes but I have the complete new box. > > Good hunting. > > Always yakin, > Doug > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> > To: > Subject: Yak-List: DG/Flux Gate > > > > > > My DG has now decided to act funny, when I push the button it just goes > > round and round but doesnt stop at the correct heading like it used to. > > I can stop it at the right heading and it will keep a relative heading. > > I guess the flux gate isnt working, has anyone else experienced this and > > is there a simple fix for it or am I S.O.L > > > > Ernie > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2002
Subject: Too fast!
From: "Barry W. Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
>> Wait a minute? First you suggest the reason it's engineered the way it >> is keeps things simplified, then I use your suggestion in a parallel >> setting and you disagree? I'm surprised, you usually think things >> through better than this, but since you disagreed with me, I'll argue >> my >> point. :) > > I did think it out. I just went a little fast for you I guess. Hold.....on..........could.........you.......please.......slow.......things. ......down............for..........uh............me.........? I'm a v-ver very, good driver. Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: DG/Flux Gate
Date: May 14, 2002
Thanks, I ordered some from him. I also found the power amp box and reseated the tubes and it now seems to work. One tube looks like a 6x6c, which sounds like an english designation, the other tube however is a 6 (then an x with a vertical line through it) 7 something. Does anyone have the exact replacement numbers for the tubes. Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Yak-List: DG/Flux Gate > > One other item to check is in the small flat box on the tray behind the > pilots seat. The selenium rectifier inside the box may be failing, which is > not uncommon as they die of old age. They can be replaced with a silicon > bridge with no trouble. Just make sure the polarity is correct. > Incidentally I got the first set of schematics that I could read from Doug. > He doesn't have everything but what he has is good. > > Frank Stelwagon > CJ-6A N23021 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com> > To: > Subject: Re: Yak-List: DG/Flux Gate > > > > > > Ernie, > > Find someone with a CJ with an operable system, swap parts until yours > > works, tell me what you need. Sorry, I know that's not very easy, but > that > > the most efficient way to solve your problem. Start with the amp box it > has > > several old vacuum type radio tubes in it. I don't have the individual > > tubes but I have the complete new box. > > > > Good hunting. > > > > Always yakin, > > Doug > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> > > To: > > Subject: Yak-List: DG/Flux Gate > > > > > > > > > > My DG has now decided to act funny, when I push the button it just goes > > > round and round but doesnt stop at the correct heading like it used to. > > > I can stop it at the right heading and it will keep a relative heading. > > > I guess the flux gate isnt working, has anyone else experienced this and > > > is there a simple fix for it or am I S.O.L > > > > > > Ernie > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: Power Settings
Date: May 14, 2002
Howyadoin' Vinny? I tink dissa guy wants-a you to take-a care of tings, ya know. "Tony" (fagedaboutit) Savarese my Italian heritage come out at the darndest times ANTHONY Dennis Savarese ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings > > Call Vinny Tirado @ 305-233-5197 or 305-252-4057. He is at the Weeks Air > Museum. I know he has worked on Lloyd Epperly's CJ and others also. He > seems to be knowledgable. > > Always Yakin, > Doug Sapp > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> > To: > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings > > > > > > Well I want to install the JPI EGT guage with the fuel flow, I had it in > my > > Dakota and loved it. Can someone recommend a mechaninc in the Central > > Florida area who is knowledgeable in CJ motors who can install it??????? > > > > Ernie > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net> > > To: > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings > > > > > > > > > > > > The oxygen sensor would be ideal, BUT they do not like lead. They would > > > work if all you ever used was auto fuel. > > > > > > Frank Stelwagon > > > CJ-6A N23021 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 07:28 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > >Unfortunately, my CJ doesnt have an EGT guage and I dont think it > ever > > > came > > > > >with one. > > > > > > > > So install one. > > > > > > > > >So what did the original pilots do to find peak? > > > > > > > > They didn't. The mixture control in the CJ6A was marked in meters and > > you > > > > just set the lever next to your altitude. The only problem with this > > > > mechanism is that it assumes that the carburetor and its linkages are > > all > > > > properly adjusted. > > > > > > > > >I was told to put > > > > >the mixture lever parallel to the throttle, but that sounds a bit > > crude. > > > > > > > > Not only is it crude, it is wrong. Stock CJ6As have an interconnect > tab > > > > that automatically moves the mixture control to full rich when the > > > throttle > > > > is retarded. (The mixture lever is prevented from being more forward > > than > > > > the throttle lever.) The only problem is that it allows you to move > the > > > > mixture control to full lean when the throttle is fully open. I > dislike > > > > this mechanism because sometimes it makes sense to lean the engine > > during > > > > ground operation. All CJ6As I have seen have removed this tab. > > > > > > > > The bottom line is knowing what the mixture actually is. There are > two > > > > ways I know of to do this easily: measure EGT or measure oxygen > content > > in > > > > the exhaust. EGT is itself indirect because you have to adjust the > > > mixture > > > > to see the effect on EGT to identify the proper mixture. Peak EGT > > occurs > > > > at the point of proper stochastic mixture, i.e. the proper ratio of > fuel > > > to > > > > oxygen that results in total combustion with neither excess fuel nor > > > excess > > > > O2 in the exhaust. > > > > > > > > The oxygen sensor is an even better way to determine mixture because > it > > > > actually measures excess O2 (mixture too lean). This is how computers > > in > > > > automobile engines measure and adjust the mixture automatically. > > > > > > > > So without either an EGT or an O2 sensor/display, you really have no > > idea > > > > what the mixture is in your airplane. You have to trust that the carb > > and > > > > linkage are properly adjusted or you have to err on the rich side to > > > ensure > > > > not causing damage to the engine at high power settings. > > > > > > > > > > > > Brian Lloyd > > > > brian(at)lloyd.com > > > > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > > > > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2002
Subject: Re: Power Settings
In a message dated 5/14/02 10:49:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ernie(at)gscinc.com writes: > I'll look into it. Also I'm planning to join YPA as soon as I fill in the > app. Are there YPA clinics that are going to be held anytime soon. I just > started my acro training with my instructor here at Leeward, but I'd like to > start some formation stuff soon with you guy's. > > The next YPA event is June 5 - 9 in OLU (Columbus, Nebraska). It is our anunal meeting/ formation clinic/ acro etc. etc. We picked this place because 1. Its very close to the geographic center of the southern 48 states. 2. One of our members Keith Harbor, is the FBO on the field and invited us. And 3. It has all the facilities we require. After that comes MTW/OSH starting July 20th. We will be participating in the WB part of the show. We will have a new Yak 52TW for close inspection and systems talks and hopefully an acro box over the field like last year. This May 25-26 there is small gathering down at Tamiami (south Miami) with some YPA members cerebrating the opening of Wings Over Miami Museum (Week's old place). It not an "official" event but there will be a number of CJs and Yaks there. Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2002
Subject: Re: Power Settings
In a message dated 5/14/02 10:55:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rvfltd(at)televar.com writes: > > Call Vinny Tirado @ 305-233-5197 or 305-252-4057. He is at the Weeks Air > Museum. I know he has worked on Lloyd Epperly's CJ and others also. He > seems to be knowledgable. Always Yakin, > Doug Sapp Weeks Air Museum is no more although Vinny is still there. It now the Wings Over Miami Museum. Try the same numbers. Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Samuel Sax" <cd001633(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Fly-in
Date: May 14, 2002
Boys & Gals, The Wings Over Miami Museum (Formerly Weeks Air Museum) is holding its first Warbird fly-in event on Memorial Day weekend (May 25-26th) - you all are invited! Fuel is provided as well as hotel rooms (while they last). www.wingsovermiami.com - we are having our Memorial Day weekend fly-in on the 25th-26th and you are invited, fuel and hotel provided. Let me know if you can make it. Visit the museum on line at www.wingsovermiami.com Location: Kendall Tamiami Executive Airport (TMB), Miami, FL. Please let me know if you are coming - hope to see you there! Sam Sax N92863 "Sax Machine" 305.215.5599 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2002
From: Jim Ivey <jim(at)jimivey.com>
Subject: Re: Power Settings
Ernie: I don't' think JPI has come out with the 9-cylinder version of the EDM-800. I think it's only available in the EDM-700 9c model. However, I think there is a fuel flow/totalizer option on the 700. Be sure to get a high-enough flow transducer for the CJ. The only real difference between the 800 and 700 series is the 800 automatically has fuel flow and also has percentage horsepower read-out. I have an 800 in my Comanche and like it. See link: http://www.jpinstruments.com/ then click on, "home", then the EDM 700 9c in the left margin. Jim Ivey P.S. I don't know why they show a P-40 Warhawk in the background for a 9-cylinder analyzer. Ernie wrote: > >Well I want to install the JPI EGT guage with the fuel flow, I had it in my >Dakota and loved it. Can someone recommend a mechaninc in the Central >Florida area who is knowledgeable in CJ motors who can install it??????? > >Ernie >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net> >To: >Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings > > >> > > >>The oxygen sensor would be ideal, BUT they do not like lead. They would >>work if all you ever used was auto fuel. >> >>Frank Stelwagon >>CJ-6A N23021 >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> >>To: >>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings >> >> >>> >>>At 07:28 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>Unfortunately, my CJ doesnt have an EGT guage and I dont think it ever >>>> >>came >> >>>>with one. >>>> >>>So install one. >>> >>>>So what did the original pilots do to find peak? >>>> >>>They didn't. The mixture control in the CJ6A was marked in meters and >>> >you > >>>just set the lever next to your altitude. The only problem with this >>>mechanism is that it assumes that the carburetor and its linkages are >>> >all > >>>properly adjusted. >>> >>>>I was told to put >>>>the mixture lever parallel to the throttle, but that sounds a bit >>>> >crude. > >>>Not only is it crude, it is wrong. Stock CJ6As have an interconnect tab >>>that automatically moves the mixture control to full rich when the >>> >>throttle >> >>>is retarded. (The mixture lever is prevented from being more forward >>> >than > >>>the throttle lever.) The only problem is that it allows you to move the >>>mixture control to full lean when the throttle is fully open. I dislike >>>this mechanism because sometimes it makes sense to lean the engine >>> >during > >>>ground operation. All CJ6As I have seen have removed this tab. >>> >>>The bottom line is knowing what the mixture actually is. There are two >>>ways I know of to do this easily: measure EGT or measure oxygen content >>> >in > >>>the exhaust. EGT is itself indirect because you have to adjust the >>> >>mixture >> >>>to see the effect on EGT to identify the proper mixture. Peak EGT >>> >occurs > >>>at the point of proper stochastic mixture, i.e. the proper ratio of fuel >>> >>to >> >>>oxygen that results in total combustion with neither excess fuel nor >>> >>excess >> >>>O2 in the exhaust. >>> >>>The oxygen sensor is an even better way to determine mixture because it >>>actually measures excess O2 (mixture too lean). This is how computers >>> >in > >>>automobile engines measure and adjust the mixture automatically. >>> >>>So without either an EGT or an O2 sensor/display, you really have no >>> >idea > >>>what the mixture is in your airplane. You have to trust that the carb >>> >and > >>>linkage are properly adjusted or you have to err on the rich side to >>> >>ensure >> >>>not causing damage to the engine at high power settings. >>> >>> >>>Brian Lloyd >>>brian(at)lloyd.com >>>+1.530.676.1113 - voice >>>+1.360.838.9669 - fax >>> >>> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: Fly-in
Date: May 14, 2002
I'd like to go, I can also possibly have my L-29 there if you can cover the fuel for it. Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Samuel Sax" <cd001633(at)mindspring.com> Subject: Yak-List: Fly-in > > Boys & Gals, > > The Wings Over Miami Museum (Formerly Weeks Air Museum) is holding its first > Warbird fly-in event on Memorial Day weekend (May 25-26th) - you all are > invited! Fuel is provided as well as hotel rooms (while they last). > > www.wingsovermiami.com - we are having our Memorial Day weekend fly-in on > the 25th-26th and you are invited, fuel and hotel provided. Let me know if > you can make it. > > Visit the museum on line at www.wingsovermiami.com > > Location: Kendall Tamiami Executive Airport (TMB), Miami, FL. > > Please let me know if you are coming - hope to see you there! > > Sam Sax > N92863 "Sax Machine" > > 305.215.5599 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russ Dycus" <dycusr(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: First ever MTW bowling Clinic
Date: May 14, 2002
For the first time anywhere! The first annual bowling clinic will be held at MTW concurrent with the usual Pre-OSH formation clinic. Equipment list 1. Bowling ball, must have current annual 2. Nomex bowling Shirt, preferably Sage green with lots of Bowling patches attached 3. Bowling bag 4. Fireproof bowling shoes 5. Nomex bowling gloves 6. Parachute, with current packing date (You can't be too careful) 7. All licenses, permits, and paperwork. These will be verified 9. A sense of humor 10. To bowl at Osh you will be required to have a BAST (Bowlers of America Standardization Test) patch Russ (Sorry Mike, but I couldn't resist) Dycus ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: CD Order
At 05:32 AM 5/14/2002, you wrote: > >Brian, > >Please accept my order for 10 of the maintenance CD's at $1.00 each. If Ray >is correct and your cost is $.75 each, then you'll have a 25% profit, which >should be significant. I'm sure that this will more than cover your missed >day of work. Could you please ship them in individual mailers? Cute Mike. : ) >Mike (helping Brian get rich) McCoy Thank you for thinking of me! >P.S. Even if you aren't making big bucks by selling me these CD's, please >do it anyway. You wouldn't want to jeopardize my safety just because you're >losing money. Absolutely not! I want you to be safe. In fact, I will be happy to provide dual instruction to you so you can be even safer! ; ) Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Drew" <aapilot(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Attendance List at Red Star
Date: May 14, 2002
Folks, I put the roll call with aircraft type up at www.allredstar.com for those who wanted that info. Some photos are also posted. Please e-mail me if you need specific contact info... Drew Drew A. Blahnick Red Star Inc. Cell 310-493-4245 www.allredstar.com Communism: lousy politics - great airplanes! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russ Dycus" <dycusr(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 05/14/02
Date: May 15, 2002
No, no, NO! Brian! You are Latte sucking, SUV driving, YUPPIE scum! Russ (tongue firmly in cheek) Dycus > Brian said > Yeah, but I guess I am still an evil money-grubbing capitalist whore. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2002
Subject: Re: Attendance List at Red Star
Drew, Went to web site. Could not find list nor pics. Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2002
Subject: Fwd: When Cows Fly
> This came out of the NAVAL AIR SYS Command, WEEKLY SAFETY WRAPUP. > __________________________________________________________________ > Earlier this year, the dazed crew of a Japanese Trawler were plucked out > of the Sea of Japan clinging to the wreckage of their sunken ship. Their > rescue, however, was followed by immediate imprisonment once authorities > questioned the sailors on their ship's loss. They claimed that a cow, > falling out of a clear blue sky, had struck the trawler amidships, > shattering its > hull and sinking the vessel within minutes. > > They remained in prison for several weeks, until the Russian Air Force > reluctantly informed Japanese authorities that the crew of one of its > cargo planes had apparently stolen a cow wandering at the edge of a Siberian > airfield, forced the cow into the plane's hold and hastily taken off for > home. Unprepared for live cargo, the Russian crew was ill-equipped to > manage a now rampaging cow within its hold. To save the aircraft and > themselves, they shoved the animal out of the cargo hold as they crossed > the Sea of Japan at an altitude of 30,000 feet. This must be an April Fools joke? Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC From: "RD Russell" <rrussell20(at)cfl.rr.com> Subject: When Cows Fly Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 21:07:10 -0400 This came out of the NAVAL AIR SYS Command, WEEKLY SAFETY WRAPUP. Earlier this year, the dazed crew of a Japanese Trawler were plucked out of the Sea of Japan clinging to the wreckage of their sunken ship. Their rescue, however, was followed by immediate imprisonment once authorities questioned the sailors on their ship's loss. They claimed that a cow, falling out of a clear blue sky, had struck the trawler amidships, shattering its hull and sinking the vessel within minutes. They remained in prison for several weeks, until the Russian Air Force reluctantly informed Japanese authorities that the crew of one of its cargo planes had apparently stolen a cow wandering at the edge of a Siberian airfield, forced the cow into the plane's hold and hastily taken off for home. Unprepared for live cargo, the Russian crew was ill-equipped to manage a now rampaging cow within its hold. To save the aircraft and themselves, they shoved the animal out of the cargo hold as they crossed the Sea of Japan at an altitude of 30,000 feet. This came out of the NAVAL AIR SYS Command, WEEKLY SAFETY WRAPUP. __________________________________________________________________ Earlier this year, the dazed crew of a Japanese Trawler were plucked out of the Sea of Japan clinging to the wreckage of their sunken ship. Their rescue, however, was followed by immediate imprisonment once authorities questioned the sailors on their ship's loss. They claimed that a cow, falling out of a clear blue sky, had struck the trawler amidships, shattering its hull and sinking the vessel within minutes. They remained in prison for several weeks, until the Russian Air Force reluctantly informed Japanese authorities that the crew of one of its cargo planes had apparently stolen a cow wandering at the edge of a Siberian airfield, forced the cow into the plane's hold and hastily taken off for home. Unprepared for live cargo, the Russian crew was ill-equipped to manage a now rampaging cow within its hold. To save the aircraft and themselves, they shoved the animal out of the cargo hold as they crossed the Sea of Japan at an altitude of 30,000 feet. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Drew" <aapilot(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Attendance List at Red Star
Date: May 15, 2002
It was probably updating Jim. Let me know. Drew A. Blahnick Red Star Inc. Cell 310-493-4245 www.allredstar.com Communism: lousy politics - great airplanes! ----- Original Message ----- From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com To: yak-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 9:05 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Attendance List at Red Star Drew, Went to web site. Could not find list nor pics. Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC = = messages. = = ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: my characterization
> >No, no, NO! Brian! You are Latte sucking, SUV driving, YUPPIE scum! Nuh uh. I prefer mochas to lattes, I have a pickup truck, and I too old to be considered a *young* upwardly-mobile person. But I will fly for money! Actually I will fly for money, food, fun, love or anything other reason you can think of. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark and Alison Haskell" <markally(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Magazine articles
Date: May 15, 2002
Thanks to all of you who responded to my landing gear problems, and thanks to Mark Jeffries of Yak UK for helping me weed through some of my C of G issues! Your time and knowledge is much appreciated! I had a chance to browse through the local bookstore this morning, and I came across two magazines of interest to Yak pilots and fans. The May 2002 issue of Air and Space Smithsonian (www.airspacemag.com) has a great article about former Soviet and communist airplanes and the airshow scene. Pictures and info. on Yaks, CJ's, Migs, etc, including a poster of various Red Star aircraft seen at airshows around N. America. The April 2002 issue of AIRFORCES MONTHLY (www.airforcesmonthly.com) has a neat article on the Sri Lanken Air Force and their new Nanchang PT-6 trainers. Good photos of the planes in action in low vis military gray. Great exposure for us Yak lovers! Regards, Mark Haskell "maineyak!" N52MY markally(at)gwi.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KingCJ6(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2002
Subject: Insurance Waiver Charges
I was informed by my agent today that our insurer (AIG) is now charging for additional insured and waiver of subrogation clauses added to the policy. In our case it is $117 for this weekend's West Coast Formation Clinic at MER. As more and more events/gatherings are requiring these, costs will start to mount quickly. Have others on the list experienced these charges? The agent said it is becoming SOP, but that AIG does tend to "nickel & dime" a lot. Any one have Bob Cannon's number handy? Thanks, Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim & Alice" <alikatz(at)mbay.net>
Subject: Re: Attendance List at Red Star
Date: May 16, 2002
Drew, Just giving you a hard time ;) How's everything going with you? I'm hoping to have those Yak 52 Models real soon, I'll let you know when they arrive. Take care Jim, Jr ----- Original Message ----- From: Drew <aapilot(at)adelphia.net> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Attendance List at Red Star > > It was probably updating Jim. Let me know. > > > Drew A. Blahnick > Red Star Inc. > Cell 310-493-4245 > www.allredstar.com > Communism: lousy politics - great airplanes! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 9:05 AM > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Attendance List at Red Star > > > Drew, > Went to web site. Could not find list nor pics. > > Jim Goolsby > cjpilot710(at)aol.com > 386-467-3313 voice > 386-467-3193 fax > 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to > obtain > a little safety, deserve neither > liberty nor > safety" > Benjamin Franklin 1759 > "There is no "innocence" in war. All > collateral damage > is acceptable." > unk. > "With my shield, or on it" > Trojan Warriors BC > > > messages. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2002
From: Wes Warner <wes(at)lppcs.com>
Subject: allredstar yak spinner
I was just looking at allredstar.com and noticed a red yak52 with a giant spinner and the stock 2-blade prop. I am curious if these spinners are still available. If the owner of this yak (or a friend of him/her) could please contact me, It would be much appreciated. Thanks, Wes ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elliott, Patrick" <patrick.elliott(at)attws.com>
Subject: RED Star Photo's
Date: May 15, 2002
I've put the photo's I took at Redstar'02 (Saturday) up on the web. redstar2002 folder. for the raw big format go to http://rook.innercite.com/~pelliott/sprite/ Use freely, anywhere you like and in any way you like, Hell, burn them on to a CD and let Brian sell them at $25 a piece.. Patrick Elliott AT&T Wireless Services Signaling Network Operations Team 10030 Goethe Road. Sacramento, Ca. 95827 916-857-6420 "Every takeoff is optional. Every landing is mandatory." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elliott, Patrick" <patrick.elliott(at)attws.com>
Subject: RED Star Photo's
Date: May 15, 2002
For some reason the list server scrubbed the first link off my message.. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russ Dycus" <dycusr(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Date: May 15, 2002
An excellent poem that my Father gave me. He remembers it from WW II. http://siri.org/anna/pilot Russ (The Not So Passive Stability Augmentation aka the notorious GIB) Dycus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Jefferies , YAK UK Ltd" <yakuk(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: The grounding.
Date: May 16, 2002
Dear YAK owners and flyers. As you mostly know by now CAA is meddling with our certification of FSU a/c. Unfortunately this involves costs that are unnecessary in our opinion. It will add nothing to air safety!! Some of these costs are unavoidable, like weight report, load scheduled, radio annual, compass swing, mods to stop engine starting,large sticky letters, approx 10 hrs of licensed engineers time, 3 hrs of writing the AAN and supporting papers, flight tests and reports,(shorter pipe lives also), At YAK UK we have decided upon a fixed price for the above works, this will be =A31130 also to include the business of form filling for the permit and the overflight permissions. The other works required are on an individual a/c basis, i.e. what's the next scheduled maintenance, what year of manufacture for mods, life items to check etc. If you insert your a/c serial number in the box on the attached excel form you will get the mods required displayed, then go to your a/c log book on page 212 and check for compliance this is a good guide. I will be at North Weald on the trade show for the next 3 days. If owners of LY and RA a/c would like to visit (call me on arrival for a free pass, 07785-538317) I have application forms with me and will complete these forms with you if required. Have available your a/c serial number, and total time. Bring your log books if you wish I will be able to check for compliance of the mod status. I have attached the notices from the CAA for information. I hope this information is of use. Best regards, Mark M G Jefferies for YAK UK Ltd www.yakuk.co.uk Lt Gransden Airfield Sandy, Beds SG19 3BP England Tel ## 44 (0)1767 651156 (fax 651157) Mob ## 44 (0)7785 538317 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 16, 2002
Subject: Fwd: Fw: FW: Little Known Facts]
In a message dated 5/16/02 1:28:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rrussell20(at)cfl.rr.com writes: Something from a friend of mine. From being with the Collings Foundation, I know #4 is true. I once had a 8th AF bomber guy tell me "that once you considered yourself already dead, missions became less freighting." > Interesting little known facts about WWII... > HISTORICAL INFORMATION from Col. D.G. Swinford, USMC, Ret., HISTORY BUFF > > 1. The first German serviceman killed in WW II was killed by the Japanese > (China, 1937), the first American serviceman killed was killed by the > Russians (Finland 1940), the highest ranking American killed was Lt. Gen. > Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps. ... So much for allies. > 2. The youngest US serviceman was 12 year old Calvin Graham, USN. He was > wounded and given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying about his age. (His > benefits were later restored by act of Congress) > 3. At the time of Pearl Harbor the top US Navy command was called CINCUS > (pronounced "sink us"), the shoulder patch of the US Army's 45th Infantry > division was the Swastika, and Hitler's private train > was named "Amerika." > All three were soon changed for PR purposes. > 4. More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the Marine Corps. While > completing the required 30 missions your chance of being killed was 71%. > 5. Generally speaking there was no such thing as an average fighter pilot. > You were either an ace or a target. For instance, Japanese ace Hiroyoshi > Nishizawa shot down over 80 planes. He died while a passenger on a cargo > plane. > 6. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round with a > tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a mistake. Tracers had different > ballistics so (at long range) if your tracers were hitting the target 80% of > your rounds were missing. Worse yet, tracers instantly told your enemy he > was under fire and from which direction. Worst of all was the practice of > loading a string of tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were > out of ammo. This was definitely not something you wanted to tell the enemy. > Units that stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly double and > their loss rate go down. > YOU'VE GOT TO LOVE THIS ONE.... > 7. When allied armies reached the Rhine the first thing men did was pee in > it. This was pretty universal from the lowest private to Winston Churchill > (who made a big show of it) and Gen. Patton (who had himself photographed in > the act). > 8. German Me-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City but it wasn't > worth the effort. > 9. German submarine U-120 was sunk by a malfunctioning toilet. > 10. Among the first "Germans" captured at Normandy were several Koreans. > They had been forced to fight for the Japanese Army until they were captured > by the Russians and forced to fight for the Russian Army until they were > captured by the Germans and forced to fight for the German Army until they > were captured by the US Army. > AND THE BEST FOR LAST.... > 11. Following a massive naval bombardment, 35,000 US and Canadian troops > stormed ashore at Kiska, in the Aleu > tian Islands. 21 troops were killed in > the firefight. It would have been worse if there had been any Japanese on > the island. > And now you know the rest of the story. Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC From: "RD Russell" <rrussell20(at)cfl.rr.com> Subject: Fw: FW: Little Known Facts] Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 19:20:52 -0400 Interesting little known facts about WWII... HISTORICAL INFORMATION from Col. D.G. Swinford, USMC, Ret., HISTORY BUFF 1. The first German serviceman killed in WW II was killed by the Japanese (China, 1937), the first American serviceman killed was killed by the Russians (Finland 1940), the highest ranking American killed was Lt. Gen. Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps. ... So much for allies. 2. The youngest US serviceman was 12 year old Calvin Graham, USN. He was wounded and given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying about his age. (His benefits were later restored by act of Congress) 3. At the time of Pearl Harbor the top US Navy command was called CINCUS (pronounced "sink us"), the shoulder patch of the US Army's 45th Infantry division was the Swastika, and Hitler's private train was named "Amerika." All three were soon changed for PR purposes. 4. More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the Marine Corps. While completing the required 30 missions your chance of being killed was 71%. 5. Generally speaking there was no such thing as an average fighter pilot. You were either an ace or a target. For instance, Japanese ace Hiroyoshi Nishizawa shot down over 80 planes. He died while a passenger on a cargo plane. 6. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round with a tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a mistake. Tracers had different ballistics so (at long range) if your tracers were hitting the target 80% of your rounds were missing. Worse yet, tracers instantly told your enemy he was under fire and from which direction. Worst of all was the practice of loading a string of tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were out of ammo. This was definitely not something you wanted to tell the enemy. Units that st opped using tracers saw their success rate nearly double and their loss rate go down. YOU'VE GOT TO LOVE THIS ONE.... 7. When allied armies reached the Rhine the first thing men did was pee in it. This was pretty universal from the lowest private to Winston Churchill (who made a big show of it) and Gen. Patton (who had himself photographed in the act). 8. German Me-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City but it wasn't worth the effort. 9. German submarine U-120 was sunk by a malfunctioning toilet. 10. Among the first "Germans" captured at Normandy were several Koreans. They had been forced to fight for the Japanese Army until they were captured by the Russians and forced to fight for the Russian Army until they were captured by the Germans and forced to fight for the German Army until they were captured by the US Army. AND THE BEST FOR LAST.... 11. Following a massive naval bombardment, 35,000 US and Canadian troops stormed ashore at Kiska, in the Aleu tian Islands. 21 troops were killed in the firefight. It would have been worse if there had been any Japanese on the island. And now you know the rest of the story. Interesting little known facts about WWII... HISTORICAL INFORMATION from Col. D.G. Swinford, USMC, Ret., HISTORY BUFF 1. The first German serviceman killed in WW II was killed by the Japanese (China, 1937), the first American serviceman killed was killed by the Russians (Finland 1940), the highest ranking American killed was Lt. Gen. Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps. ... So much for allies. 2.=20The youngest US serviceman was 12 year old Calvin Graham, USN. He was wounded and given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying about his age. (His benefits were later restored by act of Congress) 3. At the time of Pearl Harbor the top US Navy command was called CINCUS (pronounced "sink us"), the shoulder patch of the US Army's 45th Infantry division was the Swastika,=20and Hitler's private train was named "Amerika." All three were soon changed for PR purposes. 4. More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the Marine Corps. While completing the required 30 missions your chance of being killed was 71%. 5. Generally speaking there was no such thing=20as an average fighter pilot. You were either an ace or a target. For instance, Japanese ace Hiroyoshi Nishizawa shot down over 80 planes. He died while=20a passenger on a cargo plane. 6. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round with a tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a mistake. Tracers had different ballistics so (at long range) if your tracers were hitting the target 80% of your rounds were missing. Worse yet, tracers instantly told your enemy he was under fire and from which direction. Worst of all was the practice of loading a string of tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were out of ammo. This was definitely not something you wanted to tell the enemy. Units that st opped using tracers saw their success rate nearly double and their loss rate go down. YOU'VE GOT TO LOVE THIS ONE.... 7. When allied armies reached the Rhine the first thing men did was pee in it. This was pretty universal from the lowest private to Winston Churchill (who made a big show of it)=20and Gen. Patton (who had himself photographed in the act). 8. German Me-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City but it wasn't worth=20the effort. 9. German submarine U-120 was sunk by a malfunctioning toilet. 10. Among the first "Germans" captured at Normandy were several Koreans. They had been forced to fight for the Japanese Army until they were captured by the Russians and forced to fight for the Russian Army until they were captured by the Germans and forced to fight for the German Army until they were captured by the US Army. AND THE BEST FOR LAST.... 11. Following a massive naval bombardment, 35,000 US and Canadian troops stormed ashore at Kiska, in the Aleu tian Islands. 21 troops were killed in the firefight. It would have been worse if there had been any Japanese on the island. And now you know the rest of the story. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kpilling" <kjpilling(at)btclick.com>
Subject: Russian Aircraft Grounded in UK
Date: May 16, 2002
The UK CAA have in their infinite wisdom issued a grounding notice applying to all Russian, & Lithuanian registered light aircraft. Aircraft affected include Yak 12, 18, 50, 52 and 55 as well as SU26, 29 and 31. Around 120 aircraft are involved. There are ways (very expensive) to get a number of these onto the UK register albeit only if they can be proved to have a Military history. Permits only will be issued, in itself not too restrictive but any Yak aircraft manufactured after 1993 by Aerostar of Romania will be excluded because they were produced not for the military but for the civilian market! My '52 was built in 1998 and therefore I cannot fly it legally after Sunday ! My only real chance is to sell in the US. Serial; 981206 218 hrs TT Champion Plugs Desser Tyres Duplicated Cowl and Oil cooler controls (Factory fitted) Western Altimeters Garmin Colour GPS 295 Manifold drain (Factory Mod) Air off start interrupter mod' Luggage compartment. New Ceconite Control Surfaces. Anybody interested please respond off list to kjpilling(at)btclick.com for photos and more info. I can arrange shipping and re-assembly in US if required. With apologies to all listers for advertising. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: VDesi10492(at)aol.com
Date: May 16, 2002
Subject: Re: CD Order
Hi, I just got back in town and am very interested in getting some maintenance CD's. How would I go about doing that? I think Brian had them but I am not sure. Thanks Dave DeSimone 3640 Archer Lane Plymouth, MN 55446 vdesi10492(at)AOL.com 763 5599189 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Fagan" <sashalee(at)iafrica.com>
Subject: Re: Russian Aircraft Grounded in UK
Date: May 16, 2002
What is the Price of this Yak please We are looking for Two to Three 52s here is South Africa First come fist bought My email address is as follows sashalee(at)iafrica.com Kind regards Mike Fagan ----- Original Message ----- From: kpilling <kjpilling(at)btclick.com> Subject: Yak-List: Russian Aircraft Grounded in UK > > The UK CAA have in their infinite wisdom issued a grounding notice > applying to all Russian, & Lithuanian registered light aircraft. > Aircraft affected include Yak 12, 18, 50, 52 and 55 as well as SU26, 29 > and 31. Around 120 aircraft are involved. > > There are ways (very expensive) to get a number of these onto the UK > register albeit only if they can be proved to have a Military history. > Permits only will be issued, in itself not too restrictive but any Yak > aircraft manufactured after 1993 by Aerostar of Romania will be excluded > because they were produced not for the military but for the civilian > market! > > My '52 was built in 1998 and therefore I cannot fly it legally after > Sunday ! > > My only real chance is to sell in the US. > > Serial; 981206 > 218 hrs TT > Champion Plugs > Desser Tyres > Duplicated Cowl and Oil cooler controls (Factory fitted) > Western Altimeters > Garmin Colour GPS 295 > Manifold drain (Factory Mod) > Air off start interrupter mod' > Luggage compartment. > New Ceconite Control Surfaces. > > Anybody interested please respond off list to kjpilling(at)btclick.com for > photos and more info. > > I can arrange shipping and re-assembly in US if required. > > With apologies to all listers for advertising. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cpayne(at)mc.net
Subject: Insurance
Date: May 16, 2002
yak-list(at)matronics.com wrote: From: KingCJ6(at)aol.com Yak-List: Insurance Waiver Charges I was informed by my agent today that our insurer (AIG) is now charging for additional insured and waiver of subrogation clauses added to the policy. In our case it is $117 for this weekend's West Coast Formation Clinic at MER. As more and more events/gatherings are requiring these, costs will start to mount quickly. Have others on the list experienced these charges? The agent said it is becoming SOP, but that AIG does tend to "nickel & dime" a lot. Any one have Bob Cannon's number handy? Thanks, Dave Dave, Looking in my handy YPA Directory, I see the ad for Cannon...it is Tom Johnson you want: 480-951-1566 or tjohnson(at)cannonaviation.com. Craig Payne ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2002
From: Yak list <yaklist(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Newark Airport
Flew into Newark International today for an aviation expo. Quite something flying into an major airport like that in an experimental. Due to my op lim (no landing at the main airport in class B) letter I called the FAA before hand and they said that as long as I had a letter from the airport manager no problem. The people there were great, and get this, NO LANDING FEE. They had me take off 22R from the south end just at the start of the displaced threshold for 4R so my entire runway was the threshold. They did this to save me having to taxi the 2 miles or so to the other end, really appreciated that on a hot day with a radial engine. Took off from there to Marlboro 2N8. 2000ft runway, 40 planes and a dinner, one extreme to another. We gave tours to 600 kids from Newark. This is an annual event so if anyone wants to join in next year let me know and I will remind the group before next years event. Gus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Russian Aircraft Grounded in UK
Date: May 16, 2002
Kjpilling wrote..... "The UK CAA have in their infinite wisdom issued a grounding notice applying to all Russian, & Lithuanian registered light aircraft. Aircraft affected include Yak 12, 18, 50, 52 and 55 as well as SU26, 29 and 31. Around 120 aircraft are involved". I'm reminded of a saying I heard a long time ago. Goes something like this.......... Hello there. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you! Can anyone here truly come up with a law recently passed by our governments that INCREASED our freedoms? I sure hope something like that don't happen to us here. At least it won't if I have anything to say about it. Anyone know if AOPA would be on our side if politicians were thinking of doing this to us? Frank Chino ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Russian Aircraft Grounded in UK
Date: May 16, 2002
OHH, yea. Almost forgot. I wanted to make a suggestion to our British friends. Why don't you move over here to the US? Sell all your British properties, business' and bring your considerable wealth over here where you can still exercise some freedoms....... Like flying Russian aircraft or owning a gun. There's still plenty of land available here, living is relatively cheap, we have great airshows and the British government may just miss the wealth and expertise you represent for your country :-) OHH, well, just a thought! Frank Chino ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Fwd: When Cows Fly
Date: May 16, 2002
No, It is a true story reported by several news sources about 2 years ago. ----- Original Message ----- From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com> Subject: Yak-List: Fwd: When Cows Fly > This came out of the NAVAL AIR SYS Command, WEEKLY SAFETY WRAPUP. > __________________________________________________________________ > Earlier this year, the dazed crew of a Japanese Trawler were plucked out > of the Sea of Japan clinging to the wreckage of their sunken ship. Their > rescue, however, was followed by immediate imprisonment once authorities > questioned the sailors on their ship's loss. They claimed that a cow, > falling out of a clear blue sky, had struck the trawler amidships, > shattering its > hull and sinking the vessel within minutes. > > They remained in prison for several weeks, until the Russian Air Force > reluctantly informed Japanese authorities that the crew of one of its > cargo planes had apparently stolen a cow wandering at the edge of a Siberian > airfield, forced the cow into the plane's hold and hastily taken off for > home. Unprepared for live cargo, the Russian crew was ill-equipped to > manage a now rampaging cow within its hold. To save the aircraft and > themselves, they shoved the animal out of the cargo hold as they crossed > the Sea of Japan at an altitude of 30,000 feet. This must be an April Fools joke? Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC From: "RD Russell" <rrussell20(at)cfl.rr.com> Subject: When Cows Fly Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 21:07:10 -0400 This came out of the NAVAL AIR SYS Command, WEEKLY SAFETY WRAPUP. Earlier this year, the dazed crew of a Japanese Trawler were plucked out of the Sea of Japan clinging to the wreckage of their sunken ship. Their rescue, however, was followed by immediate imprisonment once authorities questioned the sailors on their ship's loss. They claimed that a cow, falling out of a clear blue sky, had struck the trawler amidships, shattering its hull and sinking the vessel within minutes. They remained in prison for several weeks, until the Russian Air Force reluctantly informed Japanese authorities that the crew of one of its cargo planes had apparently stolen a cow wandering at the edge of a Siberian airfield, forced the cow into the plane's hold and hastily taken off for home. Unprepared for live cargo, the Russian crew was ill-equipped to manage a now rampaging cow within its hold. To save the aircraft and themselves, they shoved the animal out of the cargo hold as they crossed the Sea of Japan at an altitude of 30,000 feet. This came out of the NAVAL AIR SYS Command, WEEKLY SAFETY WRAPUP. _____________________________________________________________ = _____ Earlier this year, the dazed crew of a Japanese Trawler were plucked out of the Sea of Japan clinging to the wreckage of their sunken ship. Their rescue, however, was followed by immediate imprisonment once authorities questioned the sailors on their ship's loss. They claimed that a cow, falling out of a clear blue sky, had struck the trawler amidships, shattering its hull and sinking the vessel within minutes. They remained in prison for several weeks, until the Russian Air Force reluctantly informed Japanese authorities that the crew of one of its cargo planes had apparently stolen a cow wandering at the edge of a Siberian airfield, forced the cow into the plane's hold and hastily taken off for home. Unprepared for live cargo, the Russian crew was ill-equipped to manage a now rampaging cow within its hold. To save the aircraft and themselves, they shoved the animal out of the cargo hold as they crossed the Sea of Japan at an altitude of 30,000 feet. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2002
From: brian olofsson <brian060901(at)yahoo.com>
Does any one know some one that does a good Job dynamically balancing yak props around Chicago. I've had it done twice by G+N with so so results. I have a 3/10 vibration till 45% then smooth till 75% 3/10 till 88% then again smooth. in the 75-88% I get some shaking of the pitot tube. Thanks Brian --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2002
From: Yak list <yaklist(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Russian Aircraft Grounded in UK
Frank, I already heard the call. In the UK the CAA (FAA equiv) are affectionately known as the Campaign Against Aviation. I think the logic works something like this Hey, If we can keep all these damn plane thingies on the ground our jobs will be oh so easy, lets do it.... Ii know the FAA can make some "strange" calls but hell at least we are still flying. The only rule here that gives me a headache is the no aeros with 4nm of a Victor airway. And, that is only a problem because I live near EWR, JFK & LGA. In England what is class B airspace here is all class A. The countries airspace is sliced up by 50mile wide "victor airways at descending altitudes into Heathrow and other airports. Where I used to fly in England you could not do a decent hammerhead without a quick oops at the top. Maybe the victor airways will disappear with the adoption of free flight, or maybe they will ban aeros altogether due to the possibility of collision anywhere, who knows. Thanks for the comments. Russian owning Brits, come on in the waters great. Gus Ex Pat Brit in New Jersey. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Yak-List: Russian Aircraft Grounded in UK > > OHH, yea. Almost forgot. I wanted to make a suggestion to our British > friends. > > Why don't you move over here to the US? Sell all your British > properties, business' and bring your considerable wealth over here where > you can still exercise some freedoms....... Like flying Russian aircraft > or owning a gun. There's still plenty of land available here, living is > relatively cheap, we have great airshows and the British government may > just miss the wealth and expertise you represent for your country :-) > > OHH, well, just a thought! > Frank > Chino > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2002
From: Walter Fricke <walterfricke(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: When Cows Fly
--- Cy Galley wrote: > > > No, It is a true story reported by several news > sources about 2 years ago. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com> > To: > Subject: Yak-List: Fwd: When Cows Fly Jim & Cy: Check www.snopes.com for veracity of suspect stories and you'll find the likes of the following: Claim: The rescued crew of a Japanese fishing trawler were held in custody when Russian officials refused to believe their claim that their boat was sunk by a falling cow. Example: [Collected on the Internet, 1996] A very strange true story: Earlier this year, the dazed crew of a Japanese trawler were plucked of the Sea of Japan clinging to the wreckage of their sunken ship......... Origins: What's not to love about a cow falling from the clear blue sky story? (There is something especially hilarious about the mental picture of cows flying through the air -- a memorable episode of the TV show Northern Exposure centered on one of the town's madcap resident's plans to catapult a cow as a work of performance art.) This legend has been entertaining people for years, and the nationality of the cow has changed throughout the tellings, as has that of the ship it supposedly swamped. A 1993 folklore book refers to this story's appearing in the 1 June 1990 Moscow News. In that version the cow was brought onto the aircraft as a spur-of-the-moment thing and then driven out of the plane as the colder air at high altitudes caused her to become agitated. A similar story shows up in a 1983 folklore book and is said to date to around 1965. In that case the airborne bovine dropped onto the hood of a car in Scotland. The Spring 1996 outbreak of this legend came from the tale being passed from the German Embassy in Moscow to the Foreign Ministry in Bonn, and someplace betwixt the two transforming itself from apocryphal legend into news story; it subsequently appeared as such in German newspapers. Perhaps it had something to do with the "falling cow" tale's having shown up in a then-recent Russian film, Osobennosti Natsionalnoi Okhoty (Peculiarities of the National Hunt). The film depicts hunters stealing a cow and hiding it in a military jet. Russians also tell the falling cow story as a joke, something along the line of the Barrel of Bricks legend in that the hapless fisherman is trying to explain what happened to his boat but having difficulty getting anyone to believe him. Further complicating the mess was someone's twisting of Reuters' well-researched explanation in April 1996 of how this age-old chestnut had ended up working its way into German newspapers. (It's sad but true -- articles that debunk legends are often misinterpreted as news accounts of actual events.) Now "falling cow" stories appearing on the Internet sport this attribution: "According to the Reuters News Service: 'Cows Fly.'" http://launch.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 16, 2002
Subject: Re: Fwd: When Cows Fly
I guess this show how little I hear from the world. I guess I'm a little slow on the up take. What made it hard to believe was the 30,000' altitude dropping from the plane. Folks tend to forget about pressurization. Even the free falls the commandos do out the back of high altitude C-130 take considerable effort than just opening a door. Oh well it makes a good giggle if one has even the slightest imagination. Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Yak-52 wing
Date: May 16, 2002
Yaksters Does anyone know if the YAK-52 wing is a stressed skin design? Let me say that I think it is but I'd like confirmation. I'm thinking about adding extra fuel capacity. Frank Chino ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re:
Date: May 17, 2002
Brian, When was the last time you had your blade angles set with a digital level? If you haven't had that done before dynamically balancing, then you're probably masking the root of the problem. I'll send you a white paper I wrote that describes how to do it with the prop on the airplane. Several people have used it and say it solved their problem. It definitely solved mine and I was doing the same thing you were; dynamically balancing time after time. Dennis Savarese ----- Original Message ----- From: "brian olofsson" <brian060901(at)yahoo.com> > > Does any one know some one that does a good Job dynamically balancing yak props around Chicago. I've had it done twice by G+N with so so results. I have a 3/10 vibration till 45% then smooth till 75% 3/10 till 88% then again smooth. in the 75-88% I get some shaking of the pitot tube. Thanks Brian > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re:
Date: May 17, 2002
I'd like a copy of that white paper also if you dont mind. Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net> Subject: Yak-List: Re: > > Brian, > When was the last time you had your blade angles set with a digital level? > If you haven't had that done before dynamically balancing, then you're > probably masking the root of the problem. I'll send you a white paper I > wrote that describes how to do it with the prop on the airplane. Several > people have used it and say it solved their problem. It definitely solved > mine and I was doing the same thing you were; dynamically balancing time > after time. > Dennis Savarese > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "brian olofsson" <brian060901(at)yahoo.com> > To: > > > > > > Does any one know some one that does a good Job dynamically balancing yak > props around Chicago. I've had it done twice by G+N with so so results. I > have a 3/10 vibration till 45% then smooth till 75% 3/10 till 88% then again > smooth. in the 75-88% I get some shaking of the pitot tube. Thanks Brian > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2002
From: RedSkyAviation(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: RE
Me too please. Bob I'd like a copy of that white paper also if you dont mind. Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net> To: Subject: Re: > > Brian, > When was the last time you had your blade angles set with a digital level? > If you haven't had that done before dynamically balancing, then you're > probably masking the root of the problem. I'll send you a white paper I > wrote that describes how to do it with the prop on the airplane. Several > people have used it and say it solved their problem. It definitely solved > mine and I was doing the same thing you were; dynamically balancing time > after time. > Dennis Savarese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re:
Date: May 17, 2002
Here you go Ernie. Let me know if you have any questions. Dennis Savarese ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: > > I'd like a copy of that white paper also if you dont mind. > > Ernie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net> > To: > Subject: Yak-List: Re: > > > > > > Brian, > > When was the last time you had your blade angles set with a digital level? > > If you haven't had that done before dynamically balancing, then you're > > probably masking the root of the problem. I'll send you a white paper I > > wrote that describes how to do it with the prop on the airplane. Several > > people have used it and say it solved their problem. It definitely solved > > mine and I was doing the same thing you were; dynamically balancing time > > after time. > > Dennis Savarese > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "brian olofsson" <brian060901(at)yahoo.com> > > To: > > > > > > > > > > Does any one know some one that does a good Job dynamically balancing > yak > > props around Chicago. I've had it done twice by G+N with so so results. > I > > have a 3/10 vibration till 45% then smooth till 75% 3/10 till 88% then > again > > smooth. in the 75-88% I get some shaking of the pitot tube. Thanks > Brian > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: Re: RE
Date: May 17, 2002
Here you go Bob. BTW, it's only a "white paper if you print it out. Hope it helps. Any questions, please let me know. Dennis Savarese ----- Original Message ----- From: <RedSkyAviation(at)aol.com> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Re: RE > > Me too please. > > Bob > > I'd like a copy of that white paper also if you dont mind. > > Ernie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net> > To: > Subject: Re: > > > > > > Brian, > > When was the last time you had your blade angles set with a digital level? > > If you haven't had that done before dynamically balancing, then you're > > probably masking the root of the problem. I'll send you a white paper I > > wrote that describes how to do it with the prop on the airplane. Several > > people have used it and say it solved their problem. It definitely solved > > mine and I was doing the same thing you were; dynamically balancing time > > after time. > > Dennis Savarese > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2002
From: brian olofsson <brian060901(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: Airplanes
Note: forwarded message attached. --------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 08:19:46 -0500 From: bnfitz <fitz(at)colint.com> Subject: Airplanes Lee Crevier-work , Paula A Crevier , Deb Hayden , Frank Beagle , Shari and/or Paul , Mark Dankel , Mark & Tammie Blackwell Maybe you have seen this. Kinda cute. DIFFERENCES BETWEEN WOMEN AND AIRPLANES Airplanes can kill you quickly; a woman takes her time. Airplanes can be turned on by a flick of a switch. Airplanes don't get mad if you touch and go. Airplanes don't object to a preflight inspection. Airplanes come with manuals to explain their operation. Airplanes have strict weight and balance limits. Airplanes can be flown any time of the month. Airplanes don't come with in-laws. Airplanes don't care about how many other airplanes you have flown before. Airplanes and pilots both arrive at the same time. Airplanes don't mind if you like to look at other airplanes. Airplanes don't mind if you buy airplane magazines. Airplanes expect to be tied down. Airplanes don't comment on your piloting skills. Airplanes don't whine unless something is really wrong. However, when airplanes go quiet, just like women, it's a bad thing. Maybe you have seen this. Kinda cute. DIFFERENCES BETWEEN WOMEN AND AIRPLANES Airplanes can kill you quickly; a woman takes her time. Airplanes can be turned on by a flick of a switch. Airplanes don't get mad if you touch and go. Airplanes don't object to a preflight inspection. Airplanes come with manuals to explain their operation. Airplanes have strict weight and balance limits. Airplanes can be flown any time of the month. Airplanes don't come with in-laws. Airplanes don't care about how many other airplanes you have flown before. Airplanes and pilots both arrive at the same time. Airplanes don't mind if you like to look at other airplanes. Airplanes don't mind if you buy airplane magazines. Airplanes expect to be tied down. Airplanes don't comment on your piloting skills. Airplanes don't whine unless something is really wrong. However, when airplanes go quiet, just like women, it's a bad thing. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: VDesi10492(at)aol.com
Date: May 17, 2002
Subject: Re: Yak-52 wing
Hi Frank I got my 52 from Igor Grewshevski it St Louis and he put wet wings in it for me I have 30 gal per side and it did not change cg. Give him a call 314 393 7697 Dave DeSimone Good Luck vdesi10492(at)AOL.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2002
From: brian olofsson <brian060901(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-52 wing
Dave: If I may ask; How much and how well does it work? Does he place a secound set of caps. How long have you had this system Brian Hi Frank I got my 52 from Igor Grewshevski it St Louis and he put wet wings in it for me I have 30 gal per side and it did not change cg. Give him a call 314 393 7697 Dave DeSimone Good Luck vdesi10492(at)AOL.com --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Linebaugh" <linedog(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Phillips 25W-60
Date: May 17, 2002
Does anybody have a good source for Phillips 25W-60 Radial engine oil? Can't seem to find any of the usual suppliers (Aircraft Spruce, etc...) that list it in their catalogs... Thanks Jeff Linebaugh linedog(at)peoplepc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Linebaugh" <linedog(at)peoplepc.com>
"Barry W Hancock"
Subject: Glossary of Terms from Red Star and Sun 'n Fun
Date: May 17, 2002
It seems that some new word definitions have evolved amongst the Yak community at this year's events.... It would be a shame to have anyone feel left out of the "lingo" at the next gathering when "yaker's" get yaking so here's a partial list to get you caught up (in case you missed Red Star or Sun 'n Fun): (Note: this is just a partial list....others please feel free to jump in here....) Yak-er...................A Yak driver.....not to be confused with a sick passenger spewing his lunch on his first aerobatic ride. Chang................. Affectionate term for Nanchang CJ-6A (for example..... "Did you see Linedog's gorgeous Chang?") Chang-er............. a Chang driver (note: a chang-er is also to be considered a yak-er) Crud..................... A game where partially inebriated yakers chase each other around a billiard table attempting to prevent their opponent from sinking his balls. Carrier landing...... An attempt by a yaker to stop his/her body on a wet deck (aka. a beer soaked ping pong table) after a full running leap and belly slam onto the deck, using only his/her feet to engage the arresting gear. Bolter................. An unsuccessful Carrier Landing attempt where a yaker's body continues past the arresting gear, usually resulting in a crashing fall to the floor and howling sounds emitted by bystanders. 249 Knots..............The speed at which Mig 21's perform full afterburner fly-by's below 10,000' MSL. Mucous............. the name given to a particular bare-metal (anodized) Yak-52W that longs for a paint job.... also known as "mucous camo" Chinese Fire Drill.....5 chang-ers and a yak-er at an unfamiliar airport all trying to find parking spots, doing 360's on a huge empty ramp with tie-down chains in no apparent logical layout in front of 10 admiring onlookers. ("Uuh, you had such a nice big ramp, we thought we'd practice our, uh, synchronized parking...yeah..that's it") taxi-speed control device.....2001 Ford Aerostar Minivan camaraderie..........yak-er's and chang-er's, jet jocks and gibs all having a great time together enjoying the particular bond amongst us..... Jeff Linebaugh linedog(at)peoplepc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Phillips 25W-60
Date: May 17, 2002
Try Sacramento Sky Ranch in Sacramento CA. Frank Stelwagon CJ-6A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Linebaugh" <linedog(at)peoplepc.com> Subject: Yak-List: Phillips 25W-60 > > Does anybody have a good source for Phillips 25W-60 Radial engine oil? > Can't seem to find any of the usual suppliers (Aircraft Spruce, etc...) that > list it in their catalogs... > > Thanks > Jeff Linebaugh > linedog(at)peoplepc.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dr. Robert Schroeder" <firedog(at)visi.com>
Subject: Re: Re: RE
Date: May 18, 2002
Dennis, I would like to see it also...but alais its not attached...so when I print, all I see is WHITE! Or was that the point? (subtle Brain Lloyd catagory joke) Thanks, Robert Schroeder...one of them "Chang" guys firedog(at)visi.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Re: RE Here you go Bob. BTW, it's only a "white paper if you print it out. Hope it helps. Any questions, please let me know. Dennis Savarese ----- Original Message ----- From: <RedSkyAviation(at)aol.com> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Re: RE > > Me too please. > > Bob > > I'd like a copy of that white paper also if you dont mind. > > Ernie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net> > To: > Subject: Re: > > > > > > Brian, > > When was the last time you had your blade angles set with a digital level? > > If you haven't had that done before dynamically balancing, then you're > > probably masking the root of the problem. I'll send you a white paper I > > wrote that describes how to do it with the prop on the airplane. Several > > people have used it and say it solved their problem. It definitely solved > > mine and I was doing the same thing you were; dynamically balancing time > > after time. > > Dennis Savarese > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net>
Subject: Fw:
Date: May 18, 2002
All, The Phillips E-Store was really the best price including shipping. But the E-Store is down so I called Phillips and raised hell. They turned me on to Red Star Oil Co. (kinda appropriate huh?) in North Carolina. Case price for gallons was $30.34 which I believe was almost identical to the Phillips E-Store. I also received the following from Chip Poole at Redstar. Anyone wanting to share 10 or 20 cases may want to take advantage of this. I don't have a distributor in Alabama. BTW, if you're wondering who Anthony is, Anthony is my first name. Dennis Savarese ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chip Poole" <ecpoole(at)bellsouth.net> > ANTHONY > > THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST IN RED STAR OIL CO PRODUCTS. BELOW YOU WILL > FIND THE APPROPRIATE PRICES. > > 10 CASES - 5% DISCOUNT > > 20 OR MORE CASES - 10% DISCOUNT > > I CALLED AND GOT A FREIGHT RATE ON 10 CASES - $77.58 ON A FREIGHT TRUCK. > > ANY MORE QUESTIONS > > YOU MAY CALL ME AT 1-800-774-6033 > > THANK YOU > > CHIP POOLE > PLANT MANAGER > RED STAR OIL > WWW.REDSTAROIL.COM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2002
Subject: 25W-60
From: "Barry W. Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
> > > Does anybody have a good source for Phillips 25W-60 Radial engine oil? > Can't seem to find any of the usual suppliers (Aircraft Spruce, etc...) > that > list it in their catalogs... > > Thanks > Jeff Linebaugh > linedog(at)peoplepc.com I've heard this question more than a couple of times. The best (least expensive) way to buy it is from wholesale petroleum distributors. There's one about 50 miles from where I live that sells both the 2.5 gal. containers and the 55 gal. drums. Yeah, it's a haul, but it's worth it. Buying in the drums will save you about 50% (several hundred dollars) if you can do a bulk purchase (i.e. find 5-8 guys that want the drums and pick 'em all up at the same time). That's about all the information I can Volunteer to a Tenneseean.... Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Phillips 25W-60
At 07:44 PM 5/17/2002, you wrote: > >Does anybody have a good source for Phillips 25W-60 Radial engine oil? >Can't seem to find any of the usual suppliers (Aircraft Spruce, etc...) that >list it in their catalogs... I am lucky in that Philips sponsors Julie Clark so she gets the oil for me as part of her order for oil for her T-28. The nice thing is that, somehow, she gets it in 1 gallon containers, perfect for the CJ or Yak-52. When I change my oil I add 5 gallons (20 quarts) which brings it up to full. I then let it get down to 14L whereupon I add a gallon. It couldn't be more convenient. I will check with Julie to see if there is a way to procure 25W60 in 1 gallon containers. If I can get it could I please see a show of hands from people who want it and an estimate of how much oil you would need and how often. I will try to get a jobber like Sacramento Sky Ranch to carry it in the 1 gallon containers so that people can then order it from there. Maybe Doug Sapp, Jim Selby, or one of the other purveyors of parts would be willing to become a dealer so we would have a place to get it and help support the people who keep us flying. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Fw:
At 05:48 AM 5/18/2002, you wrote: > >All, >The Phillips E-Store was really the best price including shipping. But the >E-Store is down so I called Phillips and raised hell. They turned me on to >Red Star Oil Co. (kinda appropriate huh?) in North Carolina. Case price for >gallons was $30.34 which I believe was almost identical to the Phillips >E-Store. I also received the following from Chip Poole at Redstar. Anyone >wanting to share 10 or 20 cases may want to take advantage of this. I don't >have a distributor in Alabama. BTW, if you're wondering who Anthony is, >Anthony is my first name. Dennis, what's the matter with you? Don't you know you are supposed to debate whether 25W60 oil is better than W100 instead of doing research on how to procure the stuff? If you persist in such rational behavior I may have to revoke your Yak-List card. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: Fw:
Date: May 18, 2002
Woops! Another brain fart. But that's what happens when you implicitly trust your yak list friends who swear by the 25W-60. Dennis Savarese ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fw: > > At 05:48 AM 5/18/2002, you wrote: > > > >All, > >The Phillips E-Store was really the best price including shipping. But the > >E-Store is down so I called Phillips and raised hell. They turned me on to > >Red Star Oil Co. (kinda appropriate huh?) in North Carolina. Case price for > >gallons was $30.34 which I believe was almost identical to the Phillips > >E-Store. I also received the following from Chip Poole at Redstar. Anyone > >wanting to share 10 or 20 cases may want to take advantage of this. I don't > >have a distributor in Alabama. BTW, if you're wondering who Anthony is, > >Anthony is my first name. > > Dennis, what's the matter with you? Don't you know you are supposed to > debate whether 25W60 oil is better than W100 instead of doing research on > how to procure the stuff? If you persist in such rational behavior I may > have to revoke your Yak-List card. > > > Brian Lloyd > brian(at)lloyd.com > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: Phillips 25W-60
Date: May 18, 2002
Remember my Red Star Oil Co. post. They supplied me with 1 gallon cases for 30.34 per case. Dennis Savarese ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Phillips 25W-60 > > At 07:44 PM 5/17/2002, you wrote: > > > >Does anybody have a good source for Phillips 25W-60 Radial engine oil? > >Can't seem to find any of the usual suppliers (Aircraft Spruce, etc...) that > >list it in their catalogs... > > I am lucky in that Philips sponsors Julie Clark so she gets the oil for me > as part of her order for oil for her T-28. The nice thing is that, > somehow, she gets it in 1 gallon containers, perfect for the CJ or > Yak-52. When I change my oil I add 5 gallons (20 quarts) which brings it > up to full. I then let it get down to 14L whereupon I add a gallon. It > couldn't be more convenient. > > I will check with Julie to see if there is a way to procure 25W60 in 1 > gallon containers. If I can get it could I please see a show of hands from > people who want it and an estimate of how much oil you would need and how > often. I will try to get a jobber like Sacramento Sky Ranch to carry it in > the 1 gallon containers so that people can then order it from there. > > Maybe Doug Sapp, Jim Selby, or one of the other purveyors of parts would be > willing to become a dealer so we would have a place to get it and help > support the people who keep us flying. > > > Brian Lloyd > brian(at)lloyd.com > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: Phillips 25W-60
Date: May 18, 2002
That's plus shipping of course. Dennis Savarese ----- Original Message ----- From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Phillips 25W-60 > > Remember my Red Star Oil Co. post. They supplied me with 1 gallon cases for > 30.34 per case. > Dennis Savarese > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> > To: > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Phillips 25W-60 > > > > > > At 07:44 PM 5/17/2002, you wrote: > > > > > >Does anybody have a good source for Phillips 25W-60 Radial engine oil? > > >Can't seem to find any of the usual suppliers (Aircraft Spruce, etc...) > that > > >list it in their catalogs... > > > > I am lucky in that Philips sponsors Julie Clark so she gets the oil for me > > as part of her order for oil for her T-28. The nice thing is that, > > somehow, she gets it in 1 gallon containers, perfect for the CJ or > > Yak-52. When I change my oil I add 5 gallons (20 quarts) which brings it > > up to full. I then let it get down to 14L whereupon I add a gallon. It > > couldn't be more convenient. > > > > I will check with Julie to see if there is a way to procure 25W60 in 1 > > gallon containers. If I can get it could I please see a show of hands > from > > people who want it and an estimate of how much oil you would need and how > > often. I will try to get a jobber like Sacramento Sky Ranch to carry it > in > > the 1 gallon containers so that people can then order it from there. > > > > Maybe Doug Sapp, Jim Selby, or one of the other purveyors of parts would > be > > willing to become a dealer so we would have a place to get it and help > > support the people who keep us flying. > > > > > > Brian Lloyd > > brian(at)lloyd.com > > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Skipsly(at)aol.com
Date: May 18, 2002
Subject: Fly-over request
Fellow Yakkers, I told a Delta Captain that I would post his request for a warbird fly over of the St. Francis Yacht Club's Stag cruise the last weekend in September. They will be at Tinsley Island on the Sacramento River and can provide gas and lodging. Evidently this is a pretty highbrow event and sounds like fun. Point of Contact is georgedort(at)peoplepc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Skipsly(at)aol.com
Date: May 18, 2002
Subject: Chang lettering
For anyone who wants a complete set of lettering for all of the access panels for your Nanchang, Steve Petersen of Classic Fighters in Marlborough, New Zealand has a CD or a complete set already transferred onto vinyl that he will sell you for cost and shipping. Contact Steve at: steve.petersen(at)xtra.co.nz You can admire mine at Columbus, NB this June. Skip "Ranger" Slyfield ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 18, 2002
Subject: Re: 25W-60
In a message dated 5/18/02 11:43:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, radialpower(at)cox.net writes: > > I've heard this question more than a couple of times. The best (least > expensive) way to buy it is from wholesale petroleum distributors. > There's one about 50 miles from where I live that sells both the 2.5 > gal. containers and the 55 gal. drums. Yeah, it's a haul, but it's > worth it. Buying in the drums will save you about 50% (several hundred > dollars) if you can do a bulk purchase (i.e. find 5-8 guys that want the > drums and pick 'em all up at the same time). > > That's about all the information I can Volunteer to a Tenneseean.... > > Barry > This is what I did. Usually there are wholesale distributors near by. You may be able to find one just by asking retailers where their supplier is. That's how I found mine. If the wholesaler does not have it, he can get it quicker and cheaper for you than anyone else. You may be able to find a wholesaler by asking a mechanic at your local FBO. I bought my oil in 55 gal drums. For about $25.00 I purchased a hand pump that fit right in it and came with 5' hose. Each pump of the handle puts in one liter of oil. I bought a drum dolly (a ring with 4 wheels) for about $25.00. I just push it up to the side of the cowl, put in what I need, and push the drum back to corner. Clean, no mess. Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2002
From: "Terry Calloway" <tcalloway(at)datatechnique.com>
Subject: Columbus
Hey gang, What's the lineup looking like for Nebraska. ie Who is planning on being there? Anyone wanting to traverse through Eastern Kansas is welcome to join up with our flight. tc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ATPCFIMD(at)aol.com
Date: May 18, 2002
Subject: Re: Columbus
We planning on going to Columbus. Probably leave the 4th. Leaving from northern Illinois. Anyone wanting to fly along let me know. Bill Helvey ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Phillips 25W-60
At 10:39 AM 5/18/2002, you wrote: > >Remember my Red Star Oil Co. post. They supplied me with 1 gallon cases for >30.34 per case. I read all the messages with the Phillips 25W60 subject then I read your message after I had already posted my comment. Sorry. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MFilucci(at)aol.com
Date: May 18, 2002
Subject: Nebraska Fly-In
Fellow Yak-ers, Chang-ers and all other enthusiasts: The registration form for he Nebraska Fly-In is available on the YPA website home page. The fee will be $50.00 for those participating in the training and $25.00 for GIBs and all others. See you there. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2002
From: Craig Payne <cpayne(at)mc.net>
Subject: Re: Columbus
ATPCFIMD(at)aol.com wrote: > > > We planning on going to Columbus. Probably leave the 4th. Leaving from > northern Illinois. Anyone wanting to fly along let me know. > Bill Helvey > Bill, Sounds like a plan. Maybe can plan an enroute intercept if we coordinate. I'm not positive I can make it yet and not sure which airport I'll be based at, ARR is likely if my hanger rental works out. Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: Phillips 25W-60
Date: May 18, 2002
No Problem. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Phillips 25W-60 > > At 10:39 AM 5/18/2002, you wrote: > > > >Remember my Red Star Oil Co. post. They supplied me with 1 gallon cases for > >30.34 per case. > > I read all the messages with the Phillips 25W60 subject then I read your > message after I had already posted my comment. Sorry. > > > Brian Lloyd > brian(at)lloyd.com > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Jefferies , YAK UK Ltd" <yakuk(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: VAT
Date: May 19, 2002
This is for UK owners of YAK's apologies to those receiving this mail outside of UK. Just a pre warning for those of you that did not legally import your a/c or those that gave bogusly low invoices on import. Customs and Excise now look at ALL a/c coming to the UK register and demand to see the import VAT paid document. Funny old thing that !! They caught onto this about middle of last year I think. If you have not "imported" it yet suggest you do and do not give fake invoices as the values are known. You will have to show the VAT paid or face paying it again. With the used vintage car import market (mainly from USA) customs tell you the value of the car and irrespective of what you paid you pay the value they think you should pay. Best regards, Mark M G Jefferies for YAK UK Ltd www.yakuk.co.uk Lt Gransden Airfield Sandy, Beds SG19 3BP England Tel ## 44 (0)1767 651156 (fax 651157) Mob ## 44 (0)7785 538317 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: Chang lettering
Date: May 19, 2002
Do you know if he has lettering for an L-29? Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: <Skipsly(at)aol.com> Subject: Yak-List: Chang lettering > > For anyone who wants a complete set of lettering for all of the access panels > for your Nanchang, Steve Petersen of Classic Fighters in Marlborough, New > Zealand has a CD or a complete set already transferred onto vinyl that he > will sell you for cost and shipping. Contact Steve at: > steve.petersen(at)xtra.co.nz You can admire mine at Columbus, NB this June. > > Skip "Ranger" Slyfield > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Cleveland Air Show
Date: May 19, 2002
All, My wifes dad used to run the Cleveland air show for many years and is still active with it and has invited me to bring my plane for Labor Day weekend. I'm sure they wouldnt mind more planes, could I get a show of hands on who else might be interested in going so I can see if he would like to host more. Ernie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2002
From: Craig Payne <cpayne(at)mc.net>
Subject: Re: Cleveland Air Show
Ernie wrote: > > > All, > > My wifes dad used to run the Cleveland air show for many years and is > still active with it and has invited me to bring my plane for Labor Day > weekend. I'm sure they wouldnt mind more planes, could I get a show of > hands on who else might be interested in going so I can see if he would > like to host more. > > Ernie Heh, I could do that. I'm based near Chicago. Craig Payne ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2002
interface;
From: GILLES BEDA <beda(at)NETCOURRIER.COM>
Subject: Re: Chang lettering
DO YOU KNOW IF LETTERING FOR T34A REGARDS GILLES BEDA BEDA GILLES TEL FAX 33 1 42 05 05 49 E MAIL BEDA(at)NETCOURRIER.COM NetCourrier, votre bureau virtuel sur Internet : Mail, Agenda, Clubs, Toolbar... Web/Wap : www.netcourrier.com Tlphone/Fax : 08 92 69 00 21 (0,34 TTC/min) Minitel: 3615 NETCOURRIER (0,15 TTC/min) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Miami Fly In
Date: May 19, 2002
Jim, I understand you will be flying down on Fri. I'm here at Leeward Air Ranch, would you like to rendevouz and fly down together?? Ernie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Linebaugh" <linedog(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: 25W-60
Date: May 19, 2002
Thanks for the info on the 25W-60 folks... The Phillips e-store was the first place I tried....glad that I wasn't the only one that found it "down". Purchasing from a company called Red Star... now that I can do... Jeff Linebaugh linedog(at)peoplepc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark and Alison Haskell" <markally(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Wacky fuel guages
Date: May 19, 2002
Hey Y'all, I've got a split in my fuel guages - the left side reads correctly, but the right side shows 12 liters with the red light on (bottom of the scale) no matter how much fuel is in there. Do these things get stuck somehow, or am I into some electrical problems? (YAK-52) By the way, my local FBO has been able to get me the Phillips 25W-60 for a great price (equal to or less than the Phillips e-store) any time I need it. It seems they get it through the local wholesale distributor who makes deliveries regularly. It is definitely cheaper to buy the bigger jugs - I buy 2 2.5 gallon jugs at a time, and then fill a few quart containers to keep with me. A little bit of work, but considerable savings. It sure makes me wish I had my own hangar, though...... Thanks for the help once again! Mark Haskell "maineyak!" YAK-52W N52MY markally(at)gwi.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 19, 2002
Subject: Re: Cleveland Air Show
In a message dated 5/19/02 11:19:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ernie(at)gscinc.com writes: > > My wifes dad used to run the Cleveland air show for many years and is > still active with it and has invited me to bring my plane for Labor Day > weekend. I'm sure they wouldnt mind more planes, could I get a show of > hands on who else might be interested in going so I can see if he would > like to host more. Is that August 31- Sept. 1 in Cleveland?? Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 19, 2002
Subject: Re: Miami Fly In
In a message dated 5/19/02 2:25:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ernie(at)gscinc.com writes: > > Jim, > > I understand you will be flying down on Fri. I'm here at Leeward Air > Ranch, would you like to rendevouz and fly down together?? > > Ernie Yep. I was going to ask if you wanted to do that. I was planning to leave Friday early to mid morning. I could met you over at OCF to tank up and nonstop from there? Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: Cleveland Air Show
Date: May 19, 2002
I'm not sure of the exact dates yet, but I know its over the labor day weekend. Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Cleveland Air Show > > In a message dated 5/19/02 11:19:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > ernie(at)gscinc.com writes: > > > > > > My wifes dad used to run the Cleveland air show for many years and is > > still active with it and has invited me to bring my plane for Labor Day > > weekend. I'm sure they wouldnt mind more planes, could I get a show of > > hands on who else might be interested in going so I can see if he would > > like to host more. > > Is that August 31- Sept. 1 in Cleveland?? > > Jim Goolsby > cjpilot710(at)aol.com > 386-467-3313 voice > 386-467-3193 fax > 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain > a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor > safety" > Benjamin Franklin 1759 > "There is no "innocence" in war. All > collateral damage > is acceptable." > unk. > "With my shield, or on it" > Trojan Warriors BC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: Miami Fly In
Date: May 19, 2002
Sounds good but, I mat have to leave in the afternoon since my wife wont be home from work till around 4:00, ironically, she's is going to be in Ft Lauderdale akk this week, but I dont have enough luggage room in the CJ to bring her back from me, and I wanted to fly with her. She may be able to come home on Thurs though, so we may be able to do it in the morning. I suggest we touch base later in the week. Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Miami Fly In > > In a message dated 5/19/02 2:25:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ernie(at)gscinc.com > writes: > > > > > > Jim, > > > > I understand you will be flying down on Fri. I'm here at Leeward Air > > Ranch, would you like to rendevouz and fly down together?? > > > > Ernie > > Yep. I was going to ask if you wanted to do that. I was planning to leave > Friday early to mid morning. I could met you over at OCF to tank up and > nonstop from there? > Jim Goolsby > cjpilot710(at)aol.com > 386-467-3313 voice > 386-467-3193 fax > 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain > a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor > safety" > Benjamin Franklin 1759 > "There is no "innocence" in war. All > collateral damage > is acceptable." > unk. > "With my shield, or on it" > Trojan Warriors BC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 19, 2002
Subject: Re: Miami Fly In
ROGER. Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2002
From: Michael DiMarco <mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Wings Over Miami
Hope to see you all in Miami. My trek south from Oregon begins (weather permiting) Wednesday and I hope to be in Miami Sunday. The new home in Kissimmee isn't ready yet and they're boarding me at FEX. So a little detour to Miami makes sense. I'll be the one with the jetBlue rudder(Badda Bing, Badda Blue's tail that is). Mike and China Blue http://launch.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Jefferies , YAK UK Ltd" <yakuk(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: L-29 lettering
Date: May 20, 2002
All the panel labels required for the L-29 are on my web site, just down load and enjoy sticking them on!!! send a donation if you wish :)) regards. M G Jefferies for YAK UK Ltd www.yakuk.co.uk/downloads.htm Do you know if he has lettering for an L-29? Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: <Skipsly(at)aol.com> Subject: Yak-List: Chang lettering > > For anyone who wants a complete set of lettering for all of the access panels > for your Nanchang, Steve Petersen of Classic Fighters in Marlborough, New > Zealand has a CD or a complete set already transferred onto vinyl that he > will sell you for cost and shipping. Contact Steve at: > steve.petersen(at)xtra.co.nz You can admire mine at Columbus, NB this June. > > Skip "Ranger" Slyfield Best regards, Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Skipsly(at)aol.com
Date: May 20, 2002
Subject: Re: Yak-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 05/19/02
In a message dated 05/20/2002 3:57:39 AM Atlantic Daylight Time, yak-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > Do you know if he has lettering for an L-29? > I don't know, Ernie. You might Email him. Sly ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2002
From: "Terry Calloway" <TCalloway(at)datatechnique.com>
Subject: FAST Checkride
Hi Mike, Just so there is no confusion in my planning, I though I should write this note to clarify. My intention is to receive a FAST Lead checkride at the YPA FAST Clinic in Columbus, NB June 5-9. Is there any problem with this? Will I need another recommendation ride or is the one I received in Greenwood not valid either? I plan on arriving on Thursday June 6. Is there any problem with this? Thanks in advance, I am looking forward to getting this out of the way as quickly and painless as possible upon arrival and moving on to other stuff? tc Terry L. Calloway MCNE, CDE Data Technique, Inc. P.O. Box 1301 3510 Airport Drive Pittsburg, Kansas 66762 620.235.1000 Office 620.231.0990 Fax 620.231.6727 Home 620.249.9190 Mobile 501.277.3110 Wal-Mart Desk tcalloway(at)datatechnique.com Email ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: L-29 lettering
Date: May 20, 2002
Thanks very much, but I was hoping for the fuselage markings. Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jefferies , YAK UK Ltd" <yakuk(at)compuserve.com> Subject: Yak-List: L-29 lettering > > All the panel labels required for the L-29 are on my web site, just down > load and enjoy sticking them on!!! send a donation if you wish :)) > > regards. > M G Jefferies for > YAK UK Ltd www.yakuk.co.uk/downloads.htm > > Do you know if he has lettering for an L-29? > > Ernie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Skipsly(at)aol.com> > Subject: Yak-List: Chang lettering > > > > > > For anyone who wants a complete set of lettering for all of the access > panels > > for your Nanchang, Steve Petersen of Classic Fighters in Marlborough, > New > > Zealand has a CD or a complete set already transferred onto vinyl that > he > > will sell you for cost and shipping. Contact Steve at: > > steve.petersen(at)xtra.co.nz You can admire mine at Columbus, NB this > June. > > > > Skip "Ranger" Slyfield > > Best regards, Mark > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T.A. Lewis" <talewis(at)attbi.com>
Subject: moment arm
Date: May 20, 2002
Hi All, I just found the best air leak detector around. It is your kid's bubble solution that you buy in any toy department. It has great surface tension, so you brush it on with a small paint brush and it stays on long enough to detect a leak. Now a question: What are you all using for the moment arm for the tail cone in the CJ? I got 224.4 in. from Bud Harrell But when I measured it myself I get aprox. 231.5 in. to the middle of this area. I am putting about 31# of lead shot back there and need to get it right. Terry Lewis ====================================================== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: moment arm
Date: May 20, 2002
Terry, Would you have the measurements to the rest of the airplane in Inches? eg to the radio positions and the rear and front seat, as well as the datum. If so, could I have them? Thanks Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: "T.A. Lewis" <talewis(at)attbi.com> Subject: Yak-List: moment arm > > Hi All, > I just found the best air leak detector around. It is your kid's bubble > solution that you buy in any toy department. It has great surface tension, > so you brush it on with a small paint brush and it stays on long enough to > detect a leak. > > Now a question: What are you all using for the moment arm for the tail cone > in the CJ? I got 224.4 in. from Bud Harrell But when I measured it myself I > get aprox. 231.5 in. to the middle of this area. I am putting about 31# of > lead shot back there and need to get it right. > Terry Lewis > > > ====================================================== > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 20, 2002
Subject: Re: moment arm
Datum's are where you put them. A number of folks have used different zero datum points on the CJ to obtain the same thing. You must becareful where you start from. Some time ago Bud Harrell published the procedure that the Chinese used. I found it a little confusing because most of us are not use to using percentage of mean aerodynamic cord. This is just me and what I learnd from the Bill Frezees when we were puting my airpalne together out in DVT almost 9 years ago. He placed the zero datum 70" forward of the first vertical firewall. This puts the main gear at 128.75" from the datum. The nose wheel is 88.5 forward of the main gear. This puts the allowable CG range between 111.2 and 116.1 inches. The pilot is at 114.5" GIB at 161.9" Fuel 133.5" Oil 57.0" I have my ballast at 323.0 (the very end of tail) This of course is not much help if you do not know where the empty CG is and where its measured from. Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Walt Lannon" <lannon(at)look.ca>
Subject: Re: moment arm
Date: May 20, 2002
Re; Yak-List; moment arm Terry; Depends on your reference datum. Using the forward face of the prop. spinner retaining nut, with the aircraft longitudinally level, I install ballast at 317 inches. This is the center of the compartment forward of the one you are refering to. I build support structure in that location and typically install about 28 lbs. of lead sheet. Amount depends on other equipment / ballast installed. To be accurate all measurements must be made parallel to the longitudinal plane. Walt Lannon ----- Original Message ----- From: "T.A. Lewis" <talewis(at)attbi.com> Subject: Yak-List: moment arm > > Hi All, > I just found the best air leak detector around. It is your kid's bubble > solution that you buy in any toy department. It has great surface tension, > so you brush it on with a small paint brush and it stays on long enough to > detect a leak. > > Now a question: What are you all using for the moment arm for the tail cone > in the CJ? I got 224.4 in. from Bud Harrell But when I measured it myself I > get aprox. 231.5 in. to the middle of this area. I am putting about 31# of > lead shot back there and need to get it right. > Terry Lewis > > > ====================================================== > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: moment arm
Date: May 20, 2002
Exactly! What I'd like to do is be able to fly single pilot, minimum fuel no baggage or 2 standard FAA passengers, full fuel and 100lbs of baggage and still remain within a safe CG envelope at all times. And all without removable balast. Is that currently possible with your plane??? Actually the more realistic scenarios are full fuel and single pilot or GIB = 220 lbs GIF 155 LBS full fuel no baggage or GIB (wife) 110 lbs GIF 155lbs full fuel and 100 lbs baggage. I guess I'll just have to break out the tape measure and measure to all the radios and weigh them and then run all the scenarios. I have someone here who has scales also so I can weigh the plane. I'm one of those people who completely confused by %MAC. Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: moment arm > > Datum's are where you put them. A number of folks have used different zero > datum points on the CJ to obtain the same thing. You must becareful where > you start from. Some time ago Bud Harrell published the procedure that the > Chinese used. I found it a little confusing because most of us are not use > to using percentage of mean aerodynamic cord. > This is just me and what I learnd from the Bill Frezees when we were puting > my airpalne together out in DVT almost 9 years ago. He placed the zero datum > 70" forward of the first vertical firewall. This puts the main gear at > 128.75" from the datum. The nose wheel is 88.5 forward of the main gear. > This puts the allowable CG range between 111.2 and 116.1 inches. > The pilot is at 114.5" > GIB at 161.9" > Fuel 133.5" > Oil 57.0" > I have my ballast at 323.0 (the very end of tail) > This of course is not much help if you do not know where the empty CG is and > where its measured from. > > Jim Goolsby > cjpilot710(at)aol.com > 386-467-3313 voice > 386-467-3193 fax > 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain > a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor > safety" > Benjamin Franklin 1759 > "There is no "innocence" in war. All > collateral damage > is acceptable." > unk. > "With my shield, or on it" > Trojan Warriors BC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Coffey, John" <john.coffey(at)attws.com>
Subject: moment arm
Date: May 20, 2002
Does anyone know why the manufacturers use %MAC instead of some simple physical element of the airframe structure (e.g. firewall location, spar carry through location etc.) There must be some benefit in using an abstract datum like MAC instead of something physical? What's the benefit? -----Original Message----- From: Ernie [mailto:ernie(at)gscinc.com] Subject: Re: Yak-List: moment arm Exactly! What I'd like to do is be able to fly single pilot, minimum fuel no baggage or 2 standard FAA passengers, full fuel and 100lbs of baggage and still remain within a safe CG envelope at all times. And all without removable balast. Is that currently possible with your plane??? Actually the more realistic scenarios are full fuel and single pilot or GIB = 220 lbs GIF 155 LBS full fuel no baggage or GIB (wife) 110 lbs GIF 155lbs full fuel and 100 lbs baggage. I guess I'll just have to break out the tape measure and measure to all the radios and weigh them and then run all the scenarios. I have someone here who has scales also so I can weigh the plane. I'm one of those people who completely confused by %MAC. Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: moment arm > > Datum's are where you put them. A number of folks have used different zero > datum points on the CJ to obtain the same thing. You must becareful where > you start from. Some time ago Bud Harrell published the procedure that the > Chinese used. I found it a little confusing because most of us are not use > to using percentage of mean aerodynamic cord. > This is just me and what I learnd from the Bill Frezees when we were puting > my airpalne together out in DVT almost 9 years ago. He placed the zero datum > 70" forward of the first vertical firewall. This puts the main gear at > 128.75" from the datum. The nose wheel is 88.5 forward of the main gear. > This puts the allowable CG range between 111.2 and 116.1 inches. > The pilot is at 114.5" > GIB at 161.9" > Fuel 133.5" > Oil 57.0" > I have my ballast at 323.0 (the very end of tail) > This of course is not much help if you do not know where the empty CG is and > where its measured from. > > Jim Goolsby > cjpilot710(at)aol.com > 386-467-3313 voice > 386-467-3193 fax > 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain > a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor > safety" > Benjamin Franklin 1759 > "There is no "innocence" in war. All > collateral damage > is acceptable." > unk. > "With my shield, or on it" > Trojan Warriors BC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Mean aerodynamic chord
At 05:02 PM 5/20/2002, you wrote: > >Does anyone know why the manufacturers use %MAC instead of some simple >physical element of the airframe structure (e.g. firewall location, spar >carry through location etc.) > >There must be some benefit in using an abstract datum like MAC instead of >something physical? What's the benefit? The center of lift for the wing is relative to the MAC so you have to use that when you are figuring out the moment of the average lift vector. Since that is the real starting point for figuring out whether or not the airplane is "balanced" you might as well keep using it for the rest of the calculations. Here are some interesting references on the net: Simple: http://www.lferc.org/tips/mean_aerodynamic_chord.htm Detailed (from 1942): http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1942/naca-report-751/ It is just another datum. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2002
From: Craig Payne <cpayne(at)mc.net>
Subject: Re: moment arm
Ernie wrote: > > > Exactly! What I'd like to do is be able to fly single pilot, minimum fuel no > baggage or 2 standard FAA passengers, full fuel and 100lbs of baggage and > still remain within a safe CG envelope at all times. And all without > removable balast. Is that currently possible with your plane??? > > Actually the more realistic scenarios are full fuel and single pilot or GIB > = 220 lbs GIF 155 LBS full fuel no baggage or GIB (wife) 110 lbs GIF 155lbs > full fuel and 100 lbs baggage. Ernie, I have the M14P in my CJ but I adjusted for the same CG with weight. I can fly solo, with heavy mil chute, min fuel, no GIB or baggage OR with full fuel, 75 lbs baggage, 250+ lbs of Russ Dycus on a mil chute. It's really hard to get the CJ out of the envelope unless you really junk it up into a Chinese Mooney. But then I'm not really referring to anybody I know..... Craig Payne ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: moment arm
Date: May 20, 2002
And this is with all the radios out and aprox 25 Lbs in the tail....correct? Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" <cpayne(at)mc.net> Subject: Re: Yak-List: moment arm > > Ernie wrote: > > > > > > Exactly! What I'd like to do is be able to fly single pilot, minimum fuel no > > baggage or 2 standard FAA passengers, full fuel and 100lbs of baggage and > > still remain within a safe CG envelope at all times. And all without > > removable balast. Is that currently possible with your plane??? > > > > Actually the more realistic scenarios are full fuel and single pilot or GIB > > = 220 lbs GIF 155 LBS full fuel no baggage or GIB (wife) 110 lbs GIF 155lbs > > full fuel and 100 lbs baggage. > > Ernie, > > I have the M14P in my CJ but I adjusted for the same CG with weight. I > can fly solo, with heavy mil chute, min fuel, no GIB or baggage OR with > full fuel, 75 lbs baggage, 250+ lbs of Russ Dycus on a mil chute. It's > really hard to get the CJ out of the envelope unless you really junk it > up into a Chinese Mooney. > > But then I'm not really referring to anybody I know..... > > > Craig Payne > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: moment arm
At 08:34 PM 5/20/2002, you wrote: > >And this is with all the radios out and aprox 25 Lbs in the tail....correct? Yes. With me (200lb), my chute, and any amount of fuel, I am just inside the forward CG limit. I once had a 270 lb guy in my back seat so I did a W&B. No where near the rear limit. The CG range of the CJ6A is pretty wide. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2002
From: John Alber <john(at)johnalber.com>
Subject: Yak 52 Sighting Device
Has anyone seen a sighting device (i.e. external attitude reference gauge used for aerobatics) installed on a Yak 52? If so, how was it installed? Thanks. John Alber John Alber john(at)johnalber.com Home 618-675-3553 Work 314-259-2144 --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cpayne(at)mc.net
Subject: Moments
Date: May 21, 2002
With the Huosai engine I put 37 lbs of ballast aft to compensate for the radios and ADF. I also have a very simple, lightweight baggage compartment. When I went to the M-14P my ballast went up to 51 lbs, spread out over various spots in the tail. I'll send you a W&B chart I used for the Huosai if I can find it. Craig Payne And this is with all the radios out and aprox 25 Lbs in the tail....correct? Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" <cpayne(at)mc.net> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 21, 2002
Subject: Re: Mean aerodynamic chord
In a message dated 5/20/02 9:32:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brian(at)lloyd.com writes: > > The center of lift for the wing is relative to the MAC so you have to use > that when you are figuring out the moment of the average lift > vector. Since that is the real starting point for figuring out whether or > not the airplane is "balanced" you might as well keep using it for the rest > of the calculations. Correct me Oh mighty Brain (AKA "Sparkly") and any other real aerodynamicist. The center of lift changes with angle of attack. CG changes with basically fuel burn off. Although the center of lift should stay in a certain range, the "center of pressure" is determined by the general layout by the designer. (i.e.,' the greater the distance the center of pressure from the CG the more stable in pitch the airplane). While the CG and airfoil center of lift need to be quite close, would seem to me it is easier to figure CG from a zero datum than a % of MAC. I understand both, just its easier for me to comprehend inches from a datum. Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain. a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 21, 2002
Subject: Re: Mean aerodynamic chord
In a message dated 5/21/02 4:19:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cjpilot710(at)aol.com writes: > > Correct me Oh mighty Brain (AKA "Sparkly") and any other real > aerodynamicist. > The center of lift changes with angle of attack. CG changes with basically > fuel burn off. Although the center of lift should stay in a certain range, > the "center of pressure" is determined by the general layout by the > designer. > (i.e.,' the greater the distance the center of pressure from the CG the > more > stable in pitch the airplane). While the CG and airfoil center of lift > need > to be quite close, would seem to me it is easier to figure CG from a zero > datum than a % of MAC. I understand both, just its easier for me to > comprehend inches from a datum As I hit the send button, I knew opps!!! Here I am think C/L (which is Coefficient/Lift) - NOT center of lift! The "center of pressure" (center of lift) for the AIRFOIL may move around 5% or so after positive angles of attack and most of the time its back around the 24 to 30% of MAC. The center of pressure for the entire airframe needs to be behind this another 8% for normal Cessna type pitch stability. I stand corrected. Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 21, 2002
Subject: Re: Yak 52 Sighting Device
In a message dated 5/21/02 5:58:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, john(at)johnalber.com writes: > Has anyone seen a sighting device (i.e. external attitude reference gauge > used for aerobatics) installed on a Yak 52? If so, how was it installed? > > John, All the ones I've seen were home made set ups. Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2002
From: "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR(at)ci.boulder.co.us>
Subject: Re: Yak 52 Sighting Device
Yes sir; I designed and built one for each side of my -52 when I had it. It installed on each wing tip where there is a round 4 screw inspection plate and to a site I believe was just aft where I installed 4 nut plates. The sight looked like this "4" with two legs. I believe George Coy may have them, I think it was he that took them off NX52CG. Regards, Rick >>> john(at)johnalber.com 05/21/02 03:58AM >>> Has anyone seen a sighting device (i.e. external attitude reference gauge used for aerobatics) installed on a Yak 52? If so, how was it installed? Thanks. John Alber John Alber john(at)johnalber.com Home 618-675-3553 Work 314-259-2144 --------------------------------- = = = = ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cpayne(at)mc.net
Subject: Wing design CL
Date: May 21, 2002
yak-list(at)matronics.com wrote: From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com Re: Yak-List: Mean aerodynamic chord In a message dated 5/21/02 4:19:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cjpilot710(at)aol.com writes: > > Correct me Oh mighty Brain (AKA "Sparkly") and any other real > aerodynamicist. > The center of lift changes with angle of attack. CG changes with basically > fuel burn off. Although the center of lift should stay in a certain range, > the "center of pressure" is determined by the general layout by the > designer. > (i.e.,' the greater the distance the center of pressure from the CG the > more > stable in pitch the airplane). While the CG and airfoil center of lift > need > to be quite close, Jim, I believe that Center of Pressure calculations are based on the wing at the design cruise CL, or .2, which for the CJ is about a 2-4% angle of attack. Same as a Bonnanza or most Cessnas. A CJ flying at design lift will also be at minimum induced drag (Grasshopper: Another Speed Secret) Brain, oops, Brian should see this on his AOA indicator when trimmed out "on the step". Craig "You can't pass me" Payne ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Mean aerodynamic chord
At 01:18 PM 5/21/2002, you wrote: > > > The center of lift for the wing is relative to the MAC so you have to use > > that when you are figuring out the moment of the average lift > > vector. Since that is the real starting point for figuring out whether or > > not the airplane is "balanced" you might as well keep using it for the > rest > > of the calculations. > >Correct me Oh mighty Brain (AKA "Sparkly") Brain or Sparky, either will do. >and any other real aerodynamicist. I'm not real. I'm just a figment of your imagination. > The center of lift changes with angle of attack. Does it? I wasn't aware that it does. Lift changes with change in AoA but I wasn't aware that the center of lift changes. >CG changes with basically fuel burn off. CG changes whenever you change a mass and/or its moment arm. If the fuel tank is on the CG, fuel burn off will not change the CG. >Although the center of lift should stay in a certain range, >the "center of pressure" is determined by the general layout by the designer. That is true. >(i.e.,' the greater the distance the center of pressure from the CG the more >stable in pitch the airplane). The farther the CP is aft of the CG the more stable the aircraft is. For example, increasing the size of the tail feathers, i.e. vertical stab and horizontal stab, moves the CP aft probably without materially affecting the CG >While the CG and airfoil center of lift need to be quite close, The center of lift is normally aft of the CG thus developing a nose-down torque which is countered by the downward lift of the HS generating an identical nose-up torque. All the torques due to forces (lifts and weights) must sum to zero or you get acceleration of rotation about the relevant axis. >would seem to me it is easier to figure CG from a zero >datum than a % of MAC. I understand both, just its easier for me to >comprehend inches from a datum. Me too. But the designer has to estimate where the center of lift will come from. He/she knows where it will come from relative to the airfoil section chosen but unless the wing is straight, constant chord, constant airfoil section, and no washout, the apparent center of lift will be somewhere else. OTOH, it is usually in the vicinity of the MAC so that is a good starting point for balancing the forces of the airplane. Yes, it is time for someone to point out the distribution of lift across the wing but you have to simplify it somewhere or you end up solving differential equations all over the place. It would be nice if someone just gave the station for the center of the MAC as well as its length so that percent of MAC can translate directly into station and CG range. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Walt Lannon" <lannon(at)look.ca>
Subject: Re: Mean aerodynamic chord
Date: May 21, 2002
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Mean aerodynamic chord > > At 01:18 PM 5/21/2002, you wrote: > > > > > The center of lift for the wing is relative to the MAC so you have to use > > > that when you are figuring out the moment of the average lift > > > vector. Since that is the real starting point for figuring out whether or > > > not the airplane is "balanced" you might as well keep using it for the > > rest > > > of the calculations. > > > >Correct me Oh mighty Brain (AKA "Sparkly") > > Brain or Sparky, either will do. > > >and any other real aerodynamicist. > > I'm not real. I'm just a figment of your imagination. > > > The center of lift changes with angle of attack. > > Does it? I wasn't aware that it does. Lift changes with change in AoA but > I wasn't aware that the center of lift changes. > > >CG changes with basically fuel burn off. > > CG changes whenever you change a mass and/or its moment arm. If the fuel > tank is on the CG, fuel burn off will not change the CG. > > >Although the center of lift should stay in a certain range, > >the "center of pressure" is determined by the general layout by the designer. > > That is true. > > >(i.e.,' the greater the distance the center of pressure from the CG the more > >stable in pitch the airplane). > > The farther the CP is aft of the CG the more stable the aircraft is. For > example, increasing the size of the tail feathers, i.e. vertical stab and > horizontal stab, moves the CP aft probably without materially affecting the CG > > >While the CG and airfoil center of lift need to be quite close, > > The center of lift is normally aft of the CG thus developing a nose-down > torque which is countered by the downward lift of the HS generating an > identical nose-up torque. All the torques due to forces (lifts and > weights) must sum to zero or you get acceleration of rotation about the > relevant axis. > > >would seem to me it is easier to figure CG from a zero > >datum than a % of MAC. I understand both, just its easier for me to > >comprehend inches from a datum. > > Me too. But the designer has to estimate where the center of lift will > come from. He/she knows where it will come from relative to the airfoil > section chosen but unless the wing is straight, constant chord, constant > airfoil section, and no washout, the apparent center of lift will be > somewhere else. OTOH, it is usually in the vicinity of the MAC so that is > a good starting point for balancing the forces of the airplane. > > Yes, it is time for someone to point out the distribution of lift across > the wing but you have to simplify it somewhere or you end up solving > differential equations all over the place. >Subject; Mean Aerodynamic Chord Brian wrote; > It would be nice if someone just gave the station for the center of the MAC > as well as its length so that percent of MAC can translate directly into > station and CG range. > > Brian Someone did that. It is in the CJ Technical Specs. Manual. Pg. 6, Fig. 1.3. Requires some interpretation but it's all there. Cheers; Walt Lannon > Brian Lloyd > brian(at)lloyd.com > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Jefferies , YAK UK Ltd" <yakuk(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: YAK 12
Date: May 22, 2002
Ladies and gents. Do excuse me, I know advertising is frowned upon but I thought that the YAK community may like to know more about the YAK 12 so to that end last night I made a small web page with details and pictures of the said beast. The YAK 11 cruise is 200 kts, the next in line was the YAK 12 with a cruise of 90 kts !! Anyway these YAK 12's can lift 4 people and have very large baggage space, basically a mobile home at "home in the air" the link is http://www.yakuk.co.uk/yak12pics.htm Best regards, Mark M G Jefferies for YAK UK Ltd www.yakuk.co.uk ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: YPA membership
Date: May 22, 2002
Can I join YPA online, or do I have to mail the form in with a check? Ernie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cpayne(at)mc.net
Subject: YPA Membership
Date: May 22, 2002
Ernie, You can join through the web site (I believe) www.yakpilots.org You can mail in the form with a check Craig Payne Can I join YPA online, or do I have to mail the form in with a check? Ernie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MFilucci(at)aol.com
Date: May 22, 2002
Subject: YPA membership
Ernie, There are a couple of way you can sign up with the Yak Pilots Association. 1) Online via PayPal (www.paypal.com). You can set up a personal account with PayPal, selecting yakpilots(at)yakpilots.org as the email recipient. This is the only secure, online method we have available. 2) Via fax or mail using a check or credit card. Download the membership application form from the YPA website (www.yakpilots.org) and mail or fax the form with check or credit card info to the YPA address. Regards, Mike Filucci ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dabear" <dabear(at)damned.org>
Subject: Re: YPA membership
Date: May 22, 2002
Ernie, Don't do it! Don't join YPA. You will only have years of fun, meet great people, get good instruction, and other horrible things. Don't say you were not warned! Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> Subject: Yak-List: YPA membership > > Can I join YPA online, or do I have to mail the form in with a check? > > Ernie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: YAK 12
At 11:48 PM 5/21/2002, you wrote: > > >Ladies and gents. > >Do excuse me, I know advertising is frowned upon Only by some. I think most of us want to know what is out there for sale, who has it, and how much they are asking for it. The key here is "tastefully done." >but I thought that the >YAK community may like to know more about the YAK 12 so to that end last > >the link is http://www.yakuk.co.uk/yak12pics.htm Thanks Mark. Your approach of calling attention to the information and then allowing others to go get the information if they are so inclined is great. Cool airplane. It looks like an Aeronca Chief on steroids. Never let it be said that the Russians couldn't take anything and make it bigger. : ) It looks like just the thing to use as a support aircraft for a group of Yak/CJ drivers going someplace. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2002
From: "Terry Calloway" <tcalloway(at)datatechnique.com>
Subject: Tank Mod
Found on the web. http://www.kiwiaircraftimages.com/pages/wancj6e.html Skip is this the one's you saw? tc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hal Morley" <yakjock(at)msn.com>
Subject: A large "Thanks"!
Date: May 22, 2002
This last weekend about a dozen of us in 52's and CJ's participated in the CAF West Coast Formation Clinic at Castle AFB in Merced. A good weekend although the weather kept some of us from getting home for another two days. I had developed a persistent oil leak, and flew over to Marina, CA to get some help from Jim Selby and Kevin Soto at their facility. It is always such a pleasure to meet really good people that I wanted to spread the news a bit. Kevin, Jim and Vivian Selby took really great care of me and "8" and by the time I left the plane was back in great shape and I'd had a chance to spend some time with classy people. Hal ( I didn't realize a half-cup of oil well spread could look like the Exxon Valdez was there) Morley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dabear" <dabear(at)damned.org>
Subject: Re: YAK 12
Date: May 22, 2002
We should have the YPA get one to fly the staff around to the fly-ins! Also it could carry around a bunch of Yak/CJ first aid parts just in case as well. Regards, Al DeVere ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK 12 > > At 11:48 PM 5/21/2002, you wrote: > > > > > >Ladies and gents. > > > >Do excuse me, I know advertising is frowned upon > > Only by some. I think most of us want to know what is out there for sale, > who has it, and how much they are asking for it. The key here is > "tastefully done." > > >but I thought that the > >YAK community may like to know more about the YAK 12 so to that end last > > > >the link is http://www.yakuk.co.uk/yak12pics.htm > > Thanks Mark. Your approach of calling attention to the information and > then allowing others to go get the information if they are so inclined is > great. > > Cool airplane. It looks like an Aeronca Chief on steroids. Never let it > be said that the Russians couldn't take anything and make it > bigger. : ) It looks like just the thing to use as a support aircraft for > a group of Yak/CJ drivers going someplace. > > > Brian Lloyd > brian(at)lloyd.com > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > ===== of > ===== messages. members. > ===== http://www.matronics.com/browselist/yak-list > ===== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Coffman" <bill(at)wmcoffman.com>
Subject: Landing Gear Struts
Date: May 22, 2002
I am a new Yak 52 owner and have been working through the differences of working on a foreign airplane. I need to add air to the gear struts. Obviously my American schrader fitting on my nitrogen tank does not fit. I would like to know how others have approached this. By the way, if the weather is good I will be in Miami for the fly-in. Thanks, Bill Coffman St. Petersburg, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2002
From: "Terry Calloway" <TCalloway(at)datatechnique.com>
Subject: Re: YAK 12
If that is the case then Barry will have to chip in the largest amount. tc >>> dabear(at)damned.org 05/22/02 01:59PM >>> We should have the YPA get one to fly the staff around to the fly-ins! Also it could carry around a bunch of Yak/CJ first aid parts just in case as well. Regards, Al DeVere ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK 12 > > At 11:48 PM 5/21/2002, you wrote: > > > > > >Ladies and gents. > > > >Do excuse me, I know advertising is frowned upon > > Only by some. I think most of us want to know what is out there for sale, > who has it, and how much they are asking for it. The key here is > "tastefully done." > > >but I thought that the > >YAK community may like to know more about the YAK 12 so to that end last > > > >the link is http://www.yakuk.co.uk/yak12pics.htm > > Thanks Mark. Your approach of calling attention to the information and > then allowing others to go get the information if they are so inclined is > great. > > Cool airplane. It looks like an Aeronca Chief on steroids. Never let it > be said that the Russians couldn't take anything and make it > bigger. : ) It looks like just the thing to use as a support aircraft for > a group of Yak/CJ drivers going someplace. > > > Brian Lloyd > brian(at)lloyd.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com>
Subject: Re: YAK 12
Date: May 22, 2002
No, what we need is a AN-14, NATO name CLOD (really!) Its a STOL twin, powered by 2 M14B engines, with 3 blade props. Fuse looks like an egg, clamshell doors in the back, could drive a small jeep inside. I suggest this aircraft as I am afraid Barry would quickly gross the single engine Yak 12 out with his parts needs. Only 6-8 flying in the world, I just found one in Russia, with overhauled engines. I think I'd look rather rakish, screaming along at a mind numbing 110 kts burning 35ghp!! Oh my aching wallet! Always yakin, Doug Sapp ----- Original Message ----- From: "dabear" <dabear(at)damned.org> Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK 12 > > We should have the YPA get one to fly the staff around to the > fly-ins! Also it could carry around a bunch of Yak/CJ first aid > parts just in case as well. > > Regards, > > Al DeVere > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> > To: > Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK 12 > > > > > > At 11:48 PM 5/21/2002, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >Ladies and gents. > > > > > >Do excuse me, I know advertising is frowned upon > > > > Only by some. I think most of us want to know what is out there > for sale, > > who has it, and how much they are asking for it. The key here is > > "tastefully done." > > > > >but I thought that the > > >YAK community may like to know more about the YAK 12 so to that > end last > > > > > >the link is http://www.yakuk.co.uk/yak12pics.htm > > > > Thanks Mark. Your approach of calling attention to the > information and > > then allowing others to go get the information if they are so > inclined is > > great. > > > > Cool airplane. It looks like an Aeronca Chief on steroids. Never > let it > > be said that the Russians couldn't take anything and make it > > bigger. : ) It looks like just the thing to use as a support > aircraft for > > a group of Yak/CJ drivers going someplace. > > > > > > Brian Lloyd > > brian(at)lloyd.com > > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > > > > ===== > of > > > ===== > messages. > members. > > > ===== > > > ===== > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dabear" <dabear(at)damned.org>
Subject: Re: YAK 12
Date: May 22, 2002
We could just call it the BHMRT. Regards, Al DeVere Barry Hancock Memorial Repair Kit. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Calloway" <TCalloway(at)datatechnique.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK 12 > > If that is the case then Barry will have to chip in the largest amount. > tc > > >>> dabear(at)damned.org 05/22/02 01:59PM >>> > > We should have the YPA get one to fly the staff around to the > fly-ins! Also it could carry around a bunch of Yak/CJ first aid > parts just in case as well. > > Regards, > > Al DeVere > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> > To: > Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK 12 > > > > > > At 11:48 PM 5/21/2002, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >Ladies and gents. > > > > > >Do excuse me, I know advertising is frowned upon > > > > Only by some. I think most of us want to know what is out there > for sale, > > who has it, and how much they are asking for it. The key here is > > "tastefully done." > > > > >but I thought that the > > >YAK community may like to know more about the YAK 12 so to that > end last > > > > > >the link is http://www.yakuk.co.uk/yak12pics.htm > > > > Thanks Mark. Your approach of calling attention to the > information and > > then allowing others to go get the information if they are so > inclined is > > great. > > > > Cool airplane. It looks like an Aeronca Chief on steroids. Never > let it > > be said that the Russians couldn't take anything and make it > > bigger. : ) It looks like just the thing to use as a support > aircraft for > > a group of Yak/CJ drivers going someplace. > > > > > > Brian Lloyd > > brian(at)lloyd.com > > ===== of > ===== messages. members. > ===== http://www.matronics.com/browselist/yak-list > ===== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elliott, Patrick" <patrick.elliott(at)attws.com>
Subject: RE: YAK 12
Date: May 22, 2002
Photo at http://hep2.physics.arizona.edu/~savin/ram/an-14-www18pair.jpg -----Original Message----- From: Doug [mailto:rvfltd(at)televar.com] Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK 12 No, what we need is a AN-14, NATO name CLOD (really!) Its a STOL twin, powered by 2 M14B engines, with 3 blade props. Fuse looks like an egg, clamshell doors in the back, could drive a small jeep inside. I suggest this aircraft as I am afraid Barry would quickly gross the single engine Yak 12 out with his parts needs. Only 6-8 flying in the world, I just found one in Russia, with overhauled engines. I think I'd look rather rakish, screaming along at a mind numbing 110 kts burning 35ghp!! Oh my aching wallet! Always yakin, Doug Sapp ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: YAK 12
At 01:00 PM 5/22/2002, you wrote: > >We could just call it the BHMRT. > >Barry Hancock Memorial Repair Kit. That just doesn't have the right ring to it. Since it will be hauling lots of ... uh ... stuff, I propose just calling it the Yak-12 GT. I got the idea from the Mercedes Benz GT that was reviewed many years ago in one of the automotive rags, e.g. Road and Track, Car and Driver, etc. Performance as compared to the usual crop of Gran Turismo cars wasn't stellar but it fit its own mission profile very well. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cpayne(at)mc.net
Subject: AN-14 Pics??
Date: May 22, 2002
Doug, Any pics? I kinda like the Fat, Hairy kind myself, it's so, so..Russian. Craig Payne No, what we need is a AN-14, NATO name CLOD (really!) Its a STOL twin, powered by 2 M14B engines, with 3 blade props. Fuse looks like an egg, clamshell doors in the back, could drive a small jeep inside. I suggest this aircraft as I am afraid Barry would quickly gross the single engine Yak 12 out with his parts needs. Only 6-8 flying in the world, I just found one in Russia, with overhauled engines. I think I'd look rather rakish, screaming along at a mind numbing 110 kts burning 35ghp!! Oh my aching wallet! Always yakin, Doug Sapp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com>
Subject: Re: AN-14 Pics??
Date: May 22, 2002
Photo at http://hep2.physics.arizona.edu/~savin/ram/an-14-www18pair.jpg Thanks to the posting by Pat Elliott This is not the same aircraft, but it will give you the idea. Always Yakin, Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: <cpayne(at)mc.net> Subject: Yak-List: AN-14 Pics?? > > Doug, > > Any pics? I kinda like the Fat, Hairy kind myself, it's so, so..Russian. > > Craig Payne > > > No, what we need is a AN-14, NATO name CLOD (really!) Its a STOL twin, > powered by 2 M14B engines, with 3 blade props. Fuse looks like an egg, > clamshell doors in the back, could drive a small jeep inside. I suggest > this aircraft as I am afraid Barry would quickly gross the single engine Yak > 12 out with his parts needs. Only 6-8 > flying in the world, I just found one in Russia, with overhauled engines. I > think I'd look rather rakish, screaming along at a mind numbing 110 kts > burning 35ghp!! Oh my aching wallet! > > Always yakin, > Doug Sapp > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 22, 2002
Subject: Re: RE: YAK 12
Just took a look at the AN-14. I LIKE IT!!!!!! Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Samuel Sax" <cd001633(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Landing Gear Struts
Date: May 22, 2002
Bill, Glad to see you are planning to join us for our Memorial Day Warbirds Fly-in at the Wings-Over-Miami Museum (www.wingsovermiami.com) . The Managing Director, Vince Tirado, happened to own a Yak-52 and is probably the most experienced Yak/CJ mechanic in our neck of the woods. I trust he can get you gear struts pumped up real easy. Hope to see you at TMB, Sam Sax -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Coffman Subject: Yak-List: Landing Gear Struts I am a new Yak 52 owner and have been working through the differences of working on a foreign airplane. I need to add air to the gear struts. Obviously my American schrader fitting on my nitrogen tank does not fit. I would like to know how others have approached this. By the way, if the weather is good I will be in Miami for the fly-in. Thanks, Bill Coffman St. Petersburg, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: YakPilot27(at)cs.com
Date: May 22, 2002
Subject: Re: Landing Gear Struts
Based on the information I have for the Yak-52, mains should be 19 Kg./ Sq. Cm. which is 270 Lbs./Sq. In. with an extension of 205 mm. which is 8.1 In. Nose should be 26 Kg./Sq. Cm. which is 370 Lbs./Sq. In. with an extension of 131 mm. which is 5.2 In. Be sure to check my conversion math. Anybody else have different information? Bob M. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG(at)Cairnwood.com>
Subject: Landing Gear Struts
Date: May 22, 2002
Bill: My 52 came with support gear that included hose fittings for landing gear. I cut the hose and added a US standard fitting. I use nitrogen for the struts. Somewhere between 350 and 400 phi will give you what you want. Contact me off line and I will review the procedure in detail if you want. Reade Genzlinger Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation 215.914.0370 readeg(at)cairnwood.com -----Original Message----- From: Bill Coffman [mailto:bill(at)wmcoffman.com] Subject: Yak-List: Landing Gear Struts I am a new Yak 52 owner and have been working through the differences of working on a foreign airplane. I need to add air to the gear struts. Obviously my American schrader fitting on my nitrogen tank does not fit. I would like to know how others have approached this. By the way, if the weather is good I will be in Miami for the fly-in. Thanks, Bill Coffman St. Petersburg, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2002
From: brian olofsson <brian060901(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Landing Gear Struts
Bill: Paul @ Lake Village has made a gauge/valve that allows you to add/set the pressure in the struts exactly. Unfortuneately it's alittle pricey, let me know if you might be interested and I'll send you His number. Brian Bill, Glad to see you are planning to join us for our Memorial Day Warbirds Fly-in at the Wings-Over-Miami Museum (www.wingsovermiami.com) . The Managing Director, Vince Tirado, happened to own a Yak-52 and is probably the most experienced Yak/CJ mechanic in our neck of the woods. I trust he can get you gear struts pumped up real easy. Hope to see you at TMB, Sam Sax -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Coffman Subject: Yak-List: Landing Gear Struts I am a new Yak 52 owner and have been working through the differences of working on a foreign airplane. I need to add air to the gear struts. Obviously my American schrader fitting on my nitrogen tank does not fit. I would like to know how others have approached this. By the way, if the weather is good I will be in Miami for the fly-in. Thanks, Bill Coffman St. Petersburg, FL --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Alternators VS Generator
Date: May 22, 2002
Yaksters; I've got to add some weight to the tail or remove some from the nose of my 52. I've heard the alternator retrofit will save around 30Lbs. Who sells this retrofit, what's it cost, any pro's or cons and where do I get it? Thanks in advance Frank Chino ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLYBOY886(at)aol.com
Date: May 22, 2002
Subject: Re: Alternators VS Generator
Frank, Just curious. Why do you want to add weight in the tail of a 52? John Bertelli ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Alternators VS Generator
Date: May 22, 2002
John; I've removed all of the Russian Radios and nav gear from behind the rear seat. Though I haven't done my weight and balance yet, I suspect I'll be a little nose heavy. Just getting my ducks in a row. That brings up a question. I want to calculate by hand the CG. For the 52, the moment arm datum is supposed to be 6.77"-12.9" forward of FUSLAGE STATION #5? What the heck does that mean? 6.77 minus 12.9 gives me a delta of 6.13" or the CG range. But from where does that CG range eminate? In other words, where are the endpoints? Do I have to go forward of FS 5 by 6.77" and then use that as my most forward CG limit? Frank Chino -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYBOY886(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Alternators VS Generator Frank, Just curious. Why do you want to add weight in the tail of a 52? John Bertelli ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2002
From: Wes Warner <wes(at)lppcs.com>
Subject: Re: Alternators VS Generator
Frank, http://bandcspecialty.com/ has alternators for the M14's. Wes > > Yaksters; > I've got to add some weight to the tail or remove some from the nose of > my 52. I've heard the alternator retrofit will save around 30Lbs. Who > sells this retrofit, what's it cost, any pro's or cons and where do I > get it? > Thanks in advance > Frank > Chino > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2002
From: Michael DiMarco <mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mean aerodynamic chord
One thing to look for before anyone puts weight in the back of a stock CJ is to check inches LE of MaC versus % LE of MaC. The manuals refer to % where the range is 17-24. Yet some smart industrious refurbishers have converted percent to inches and that range is (memory here fails me) around 10-17 inches. So, if your adding weight because your C.G. is 15 or 11 you best check to be sure if you're talking inches or percent. As best I know from asking around, no stock CJ needs weight in the tail (in elevator for balance maybe, but....). So check the apples and oranges are in the right pile. Mike China Blue http://launch.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Walt Lannon" <lannon(at)look.ca>
Subject: Re: Mean aerodynamic chord
Date: May 22, 2002
Subject; Mean Aerodynamic Chord Mike You are correct, the stock CJ does not need any weight in the tail. However "stock" means that all of the original avionics and associated electrical equipment is still installed. If you remove all of it including the redundant wiring you are taking out 195 lbs of equipment. This does not include the original battery weight. This reduces the total aircraft moment by a signifigant amount that must be reinstated by installation of other equipment and/or fixed ballast. If you were to consider fixed ballast only you would need something on the order of 75 lbs in the tail. That would be completely unacceptable for structural reasons and would introduce a moment of inertia change that may make spins unrecoverable. Using an imperical method (translation WAG - wild assed guess) I, and other restorers, have settled on about 25 to 28 lbs. in the tail as a maximum. The balance of the moment is made up by other installations eg: battery relocation, air compressor, reserve air tank, baggage compartment structure, ELT, etc. etc. MAC % vs inches from MAC LE is really immaterial. As pointed out in earlier posts % MAC is the aerodynamicist's tool. It must be converted to measureable units. However, there is no PRACTICAL way to measure directly from the LE of the MAC. This is done by establishing a reference point (the Datum), preferably in front of the aircraft in order to simplify the arithmetic, which is easy to access. All of the information needed to accomplish this is in the Tech. Specs. Manual, pg. 5 & 6. It is metric of course and the drawing needs some careful study to fully understand but it is all there. I would recommend that you do not remove or add any signifigant weight until you are prepared to do a proper weight and balance. Walt Lannon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael DiMarco" <mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Mean aerodynamic chord > > One thing to look for before anyone puts weight in the back of a > stock CJ is to check inches LE of MaC versus % LE of MaC. The > manuals refer to % where the range is 17-24. Yet some smart > industrious refurbishers have converted percent to inches and that > range is (memory here fails me) around 10-17 inches. So, if your > adding weight because your C.G. is 15 or 11 you best check to be sure > if you're talking inches or percent. > > As best I know from asking around, no stock CJ needs weight in the > tail (in elevator for balance maybe, but....). So check the apples > and oranges are in the right pile. > > Mike > China Blue > > http://launch.yahoo.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: where's the CG in a stock CJ6A
At 08:34 PM 5/22/2002, you wrote: > >As best I know from asking around, no stock CJ needs weight in the >tail (in elevator for balance maybe, but....). So check the apples >and oranges are in the right pile. But if you have removed the Chinese radios, you need weight in the tail. So far I have yet to see a CJ6A that arrives with the Chinese comm radio so that weight is already gone. Best you weigh your CJ6A and find out where the CG really is. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Alternators VS Generator
At 06:42 PM 5/22/2002, you wrote: > >Yaksters; >I've got to add some weight to the tail or remove some from the nose of >my 52. I've heard the alternator retrofit will save around 30Lbs. Who >sells this retrofit, what's it cost, any pro's or cons and where do I >get it? B&C specialties has an alternator for the M14P. That is what I am putting in The Project. The B&C alternator weighs about 8 lbs and replaces the 25 lb generator. Also you can get rid of the generator regulator/controller and filter. That is probably another 8-10 lbs. The B&C alternator controller weighs about 1 lb. Since the regulators are near the CG, they aren't going to change the CG very much. The generator to alternator change will have more effect on the CG but still, the station for the generator isn't that far forward so that total moment change will remain small. (moment = mass * arm) You may still have to put some weight back in the back to restore your CG to where it was before you pulled out the radio gear. Is there anything useful you can put back there? Lead is dense but it doesn't do anything. As long as you have to put weight in, it ought to do something useful. Useful things: * scuba tank * battery * oxygen tank * extra fuel tank * smoke oil tank Moving the battery farther aft is a good way to move the CG without having to add extra weight to the airplane. The battery is mostly lead anyway. >Thanks in advance >Frank >Chino Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2002
From: RedSkyAviation(at)aol.com
Subject: Re:Yak 12
And regarding the Yak 12 and its derivitive the PZL101A, We have some available... Bob at Red sky Aviation... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russ Dycus" <dycusr(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: The Spares Kit
Date: May 23, 2002
I think we should call the spares kit the BSK (Barry's Spares Kit) aka Biscuit. I volunteer to haul the Biscuit around in the 182S I'll be flying into OLU, where do I pick it up? Russ (The notorious GIB, who is FINALLY flying himself to one of these things) Dycus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: where's the CG in a stock CJ6A
Date: May 23, 2002
Brian, My battery is in the stock battery compartment on the slide. I think this is a nice feature, has anyone moved it to the slide rails where the large aft radio used to be? Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> Subject: Yak-List: where's the CG in a stock CJ6A > > At 08:34 PM 5/22/2002, you wrote: > > > >As best I know from asking around, no stock CJ needs weight in the > >tail (in elevator for balance maybe, but....). So check the apples > >and oranges are in the right pile. > > But if you have removed the Chinese radios, you need weight in the > tail. So far I have yet to see a CJ6A that arrives with the Chinese comm > radio so that weight is already gone. Best you weigh your CJ6A and find > out where the CG really is. > > > Brian Lloyd > brian(at)lloyd.com > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: Miami Fly In
Date: May 23, 2002
Jim, Have you been watching the weather for this weekend, we may get down there but we might not get back. Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Miami Fly In > > In a message dated 5/19/02 2:25:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ernie(at)gscinc.com > writes: > > > > > > Jim, > > > > I understand you will be flying down on Fri. I'm here at Leeward Air > > Ranch, would you like to rendevouz and fly down together?? > > > > Ernie > > Yep. I was going to ask if you wanted to do that. I was planning to leave > Friday early to mid morning. I could met you over at OCF to tank up and > nonstop from there? > Jim Goolsby > cjpilot710(at)aol.com > 386-467-3313 voice > 386-467-3193 fax > 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain > a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor > safety" > Benjamin Franklin 1759 > "There is no "innocence" in war. All > collateral damage > is acceptable." > unk. > "With my shield, or on it" > Trojan Warriors BC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com>
Subject: Re: The Spares Kit
Date: May 23, 2002
Listers, lurkers, GIB's and drivers, I put together a spares kit and thanks to the huge baggage area and extreme generosity of Hal and #8 we flew them to Red Star. Hal found a totally new use for them, as the added weight seemed to he a handy place to lay the blame for his newly demonstrated landing technique (s). :>) Another odd event happened that no one at Red Star seemed to notice.....no one had a problem!! (at least not while I was there). But I digress. My real reason for this posting is to first offer to assemble a first aid kit for the YPA gatherings. This kit could be purchased by the YPA (at a discounted price) and managed by someone they appoint, or it could remain my property, but would have to be shipped to and from the gatherings @ YPA's expense. Considering the weight involved (over 50 lbs. went to Red Star) shipping would get to be expensive after awhile. I am up for suggestions as to how to handle this and also as to what parts the kit should contain. The second reason for this posting is to mention that B&C gives me a cost break on their alternators. If we got an order together for say 6-8 units we might get a even larger discount. I need one for the miniyak, so if we could find 6-7 more, I will approach them for a deal. Always Yakin, Doug Sapp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Dycus" <dycusr(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Yak-List: The Spares Kit > > I think we should call the spares kit the BSK (Barry's Spares Kit) aka > Biscuit. I volunteer to haul the Biscuit around in the 182S I'll be > flying into OLU, where do I pick it up? > > Russ (The notorious GIB, who is FINALLY flying himself to one of these > things) Dycus > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Mean aerodynamic chord
At 10:52 PM 5/22/2002, you wrote: >If you were to consider fixed ballast only you would need something on the >order of 75 lbs in the tail. That would be completely unacceptable for >structural reasons and would introduce a moment of inertia change that may >make spins unrecoverable. I was concerned about this also so I made a point of ask Mr. (Dr.? Does he have a PhD? I would certainly think so.) Cheng, the designer, that question last summer. He said that the change to the polar moment of inertia is insufficient to significantly alter the spin characteristics of the aircraft. Yes, I was surprised but pleased to get clear assurance from the horses mouth. >Using an imperical method (translation WAG - wild assed guess) I, and other >restorers, have settled on about 25 to 28 lbs. in the tail as a maximum. The >balance of the moment is made up by other installations eg: battery >relocation, air compressor, reserve air tank, baggage compartment structure, >ELT, etc. etc. That certainly makes more sense than just a bunch of lead in the tail. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: where's the CG in a stock CJ6A
At 09:10 AM 5/23/2002, you wrote: > >Brian, > >My battery is in the stock battery compartment on the slide. I think this is >a nice feature, has anyone moved it to the slide rails where the large aft >radio used to be? My battery is sitting on a plate under the baggage compartment floor where the ADF antenna used to be. A sealed battery doesn't require any maintenance so this is just peachy. BTW, be careful not to let the battery terminals touch the trim cable. The result is a gratifying flash and bang accompanied shortly thereafter by much cussing and swearing. Brian "Sparky" Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com 530.676.1113 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 23, 2002
Subject: Re: Miami Fly In
In a message dated 5/23/02 12:14:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ernie(at)gscinc.com writes: > > Jim, > > Have you been watching the weather for this weekend, we may get down there > but we might not get back. > > Ernie You might be correct. I'm going to try anyway. I have a meeting tomorrow morning, than I'm going to start watching the weather. My hope is that we can leave early Saturday morning. BTW what's your phone # ? Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Alternators VS Generator
Date: May 23, 2002
Brian, Wes, Doug, yaksters......... Thanks for the info. Still there seems to be little information on the weight and balance points/calculations available on the YAK-52. I've got the Termikas manuals and the original airframe logs but between the two I derive little in the way of weight and balance calculations. Isn't there someone on this list that has that info? It sure would be appreciated! Frank Chino ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Alternators VS Generator
At 05:43 PM 5/23/2002, you wrote: > >Brian, Wes, Doug, yaksters......... >Thanks for the info. Still there seems to be little information on the >weight and balance points/calculations available on the YAK-52. You have the information you need from the existing W&B data in your airplane. The existing W&B data gives the standard datum plane, the weight, and the CG. Measure the distance from the standard datum plane to your generator, remove the 25 lb generator, replace it with an 8 lb alternator, and recalculate the CG. When I say "remove it" I mean just subtract the weight and moment for the generator and then add in the weight and moment for the alternator. Divide the resulting aircraft moment by the gross weight to get the new CG. You have to be able to do this already. How do you calculate W&B now? BTW, if you don't know where the standard datum plane is, find something you do know, e.g. the oil tank, and measure from there to get the moment arm for the new item, e.g. the generator. >I've got the Termikas manuals and the original airframe logs but between >the two I derive little in the way of weight and balance calculations. Everything you need is in your standard paperwork package. Remember ARROW? Airworthiness certificate Registration Radio license (not needed any more in the US but needed outside the US) Operators manual (this one is usually a chuckle -- maybe lOa for us) W&B That latter piece of paper gives you everything you need to know to do the new calculation. OK, maybe you need to get out the tape measure to figure out the arm for the radios you yanked but you have all the information you need. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: Miami Fly In
Date: May 23, 2002
My plan is for Sat morning also. 352-347-8751. Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Miami Fly In > > In a message dated 5/23/02 12:14:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > ernie(at)gscinc.com writes: > > > > > > Jim, > > > > Have you been watching the weather for this weekend, we may get down there > > but we might not get back. > > > > Ernie > > You might be correct. I'm going to try anyway. > > I have a meeting tomorrow morning, than I'm going to start watching the > weather. My hope is that we can leave early Saturday morning. > > BTW what's your phone # ? > > Jim Goolsby > cjpilot710(at)aol.com > 386-467-3313 voice > 386-467-3193 fax > 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain > a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor > safety" > Benjamin Franklin 1759 > "There is no "innocence" in war. All > collateral damage > is acceptable." > unk. > "With my shield, or on it" > Trojan Warriors BC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2002
From: Michael DiMarco <mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mean aerodynamic chord
--- Walt Lannon wrote: > > Subject; Mean Aerodynamic Chord > Mike > You are correct, the stock CJ does not need any weight in the tail. > However > "stock" means that all of the original avionics and associated > electrical > equipment is still installed. If you remove all of it including the > redundant wiring you are taking out 195 lbs of equipment. This does > not > include the original battery weight. I have only the original battery but not the radios. > > This reduces the total aircraft moment by a signifigant amount that > must be > reinstated by installation of other equipment and/or fixed ballast. > > If you were to consider fixed ballast only you would need > something on the > order of 75 lbs in the tail. That would be completely unacceptable > for > structural reasons and would introduce a moment of inertia change > that may > make spins unrecoverable. > > Using an imperical method (translation WAG - wild assed guess) I, > and other > restorers, have settled on about 25 to 28 lbs. in the tail as a > maximum. The > balance of the moment is made up by other installations eg: battery > relocation, air compressor, reserve air tank, baggage compartment > structure, > ELT, etc. etc. > > MAC % vs inches from MAC LE is really immaterial. As pointed out in > earlier Inches vs Percent is not immaterial. Its apples and oranges, if you think your cg is 15%(bad) when its 15 inches(good) you're adding weight for exactly the wrong reason. Mike http://launch.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2002
From: Michael DiMarco <mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: where's the CG in a stock CJ6A
--- Brian Lloyd wrote: > > At 08:34 PM 5/22/2002, you wrote: > > > > >As best I know from asking around, no stock CJ needs weight in the > >tail (in elevator for balance maybe, but....). So check the > apples > >and oranges are in the right pile. > > But if you have removed the Chinese radios, you need weight in the > tail. So far I have yet to see a CJ6A that arrives with the > Chinese comm > radio so that weight is already gone. Best you weigh your CJ6A and > find > out where the CG really is. Jerry Painter did a w&b after refurb with the chinese radios out. My cg is fine. Ya'll need to read a little further. Inches ain't percent. Using one when thinking the other will get the wrong result. BTW, I have no weight added to my CJ. Mike > > > Brian Lloyd > brian(at)lloyd.com > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > > > > messages. > > > > > > http://launch.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: where's the CG in a stock CJ6A
At 09:02 PM 5/23/2002, you wrote: >Jerry Painter did a w&b after refurb with the chinese radios out. Of course. That is what anyone with any sense would do. >My >cg is fine. Ya'll need to read a little further. Inches ain't >percent. Using one when thinking the other will get the wrong >result. I certainly never suggested that you did. If course you would get the wrong result. In fact, I never even imagined that someone would make that mistake. >BTW, I have no weight added to my CJ. All my added weight is in useful stuff. To get my CG right at the forward limit with just the pilot in the plane: battery moved to the ADF antenna station scuba tank about the same station alternator conversion It seems to have done the trick. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Walt Lannon" <lannon(at)look.ca>
Subject: Re: Mean aerodynamic chord
Date: May 23, 2002
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael DiMarco" <mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Mean aerodynamic chord > > > --- Walt Lannon wrote: > > > > Subject; Mean Aerodynamic Chord > > Mike > > You are correct, the stock CJ does not need any weight in the tail. > > However > > "stock" means that all of the original avionics and associated > > electrical > > equipment is still installed. If you remove all of it including the > > redundant wiring you are taking out 195 lbs of equipment. This does > > not > > include the original battery weight. > > I have only the original battery but not the radios. > > > > > > This reduces the total aircraft moment by a signifigant amount that > > must be > > reinstated by installation of other equipment and/or fixed ballast. > > > > If you were to consider fixed ballast only you would need > > something on the > > order of 75 lbs in the tail. That would be completely unacceptable > > for > > structural reasons and would introduce a moment of inertia change > > that may > > make spins unrecoverable. > > > > Using an imperical method (translation WAG - wild assed guess) I, > > and other > > restorers, have settled on about 25 to 28 lbs. in the tail as a > > maximum. The > > balance of the moment is made up by other installations eg: battery > > relocation, air compressor, reserve air tank, baggage compartment > > structure, > > ELT, etc. etc. > > > > MAC % vs inches from MAC LE is really immaterial. As pointed out in > > earlier > > Inches vs Percent is not immaterial. Its apples and oranges, if you > think your cg is 15%(bad) when its 15 inches(good) you're adding > weight for exactly the wrong reason. Hi Mike; Immaterial is probably not the right word here. What I was trying to point out is that %MAC is not a useable term for determining where your CG is located. Once it is located, in inches or mm, you can convert and refer to it in % if you wish. The MAC length is 1747mm or 68.78". Your limits are 17% to 24.1%. That equals 11.7" to 16.6" aft of the leading edge of the MAC. But since it is impractical at best to use the MAC leading edge as the datum it is incomprehensible that your empty weight CG (for example) could be reported by a number such as 12". The manual specifies the location of the MAC leading edge at 769mm (30.2'') forward of the main wheel C/L. With that information you establish a useable datum, let's say at 125" forward of the MW C/L. This is far enough forward so that all arms are positive numbers thereby simplifying the math and reducing errors. The MAC l/e is located at 94.8" aft (125 - 30.2) The forward limit is at 106.5" (94.8 + 11.7) The aft limit is 111.4" (94.8 + 16.6) You could have used the wing l/e at the root (or any reference point) as the datum which would be AT A GUESS about 6" forward of the MAC l/e, Limits would then be 17.7" to 22.6". Hope this is of some help. If all your original radio equip. is removed and you have no ballast, whether lead or other equip. your CG is well ahead of the forward limit. You may find it difficult to get the tail down for a short field landing (though the CJ has excellent elevator effectiveness even with the CG 1 or 2" forward of the limit). Or you may find that your stall speed is slightly higher than other CJ's Walt lannon(at)look.ca > > Mike > > http://launch.yahoo.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: where's the CG in a stock CJ6A
Date: May 24, 2002
Brian, WHat did you use to reinforce the ADF station? The battery is currently mounted on some heafty rails secured at several points. DO you do acro in your plane? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> Subject: Re: Yak-List: where's the CG in a stock CJ6A > > At 09:02 PM 5/23/2002, you wrote: > >Jerry Painter did a w&b after refurb with the chinese radios out. > > Of course. That is what anyone with any sense would do. > > >My > >cg is fine. Ya'll need to read a little further. Inches ain't > >percent. Using one when thinking the other will get the wrong > >result. > > I certainly never suggested that you did. If course you would get the > wrong result. In fact, I never even imagined that someone would make that > mistake. > > >BTW, I have no weight added to my CJ. > > All my added weight is in useful stuff. To get my CG right at the forward > limit with just the pilot in the plane: > > battery moved to the ADF antenna station > scuba tank about the same station > alternator conversion > > It seems to have done the trick. > > > Brian Lloyd > brian(at)lloyd.com > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Drew" <drew(at)allredstar.com>
Subject: Seat Cushion for the CJ
Date: May 24, 2002
Folks, I need a couple of seat cushions for the CJ buckets, does anyone know of a distributor from whom I can order a set? thanks, Drew Drew A. Blahnick Red Stars Inc. Cell 310-372-6328 Communism: lousy politics - great airplanes! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Seat Cushion for the CJ
At 09:43 AM 5/24/2002, you wrote: > >Folks, > >I need a couple of seat cushions for the CJ buckets, does anyone know of >a distributor from whom I can order a set? thanks, I had a set made at the local automotive upholsterer. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 24, 2002
Subject: Re: Seat Cushion for the CJ
In a message dated 5/24/02 2:22:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brian(at)lloyd.com writes: > >I need a couple of seat cushions for the CJ buckets, does anyone know of > >a distributor from whom I can order a set? thanks, > > I had a set made at the local automotive upholsterer. > Brian Lloyd Like Brain, I did the same. You can take the measurements off the seat and have any design you want made up. Ribs, no ribs, rolled edges, whatever. You can take out the seats and let the upholsterer work right from them. My advice is stick with the leathers or naga hide. Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russ Dycus" <dycusr(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Seat Cushions
Date: May 25, 2002
Drew, A to be unnamed CJ pilot from the NW was reportedly seen talking with the Oregon Aero people at Sun N Fun about seat cushions for his CJ. http://www.oregonaero.com/p18_2001.htm > I need a couple of seat cushions for the CJ buckets, does anyone know of > a distributor from whom I can order a set? thanks, > > Drew ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Seat Cushions
At 08:54 AM 5/25/2002, you wrote: > >Drew, >A to be unnamed CJ pilot from the NW was reportedly seen talking with the >Oregon Aero people at Sun N Fun about seat cushions for his CJ. Oregon Aero makes really good seats and seat cushions. I had them for my RV-4 and it made it possible to fly in that airplane all day long without my butt becoming sore. The only issue is that you are going to pay a LOT for a seat cushion from them. Plan on $400+ per cushion and a fairly long lead time. Frankly, if you usually fly with your parachute on (and if you own a parachute why wouldn't you wear it) the cushion is going to have limited use. In that case the Oregon Area seat cushion is not going to be cost effective. >http://www.oregonaero.com/p18_2001.htm Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: CG information for the CJ6A
Here are the stations and limits for a CJ6A in case someone wants to do some calculations. Standard datum: 24" forward of the propeller axial center. MAC: 65" chord, 42" outboard of the wing joint centerline. (All inch measurements are aft of the standard datum plane.) Max forward CG on ground: 11% of MAC, 121.15" Max forward CG in flight: 12.5% of MAC, 122.13" Max rear CG in flight: 24.1% of MAC, 129.67" Stations: Station name: Position: prop 24" engine 45" nosewheel (ground contact) 57" engine accessory section 60" oil tank 69" front seat 123" wing jack point 129" front spar 131.5" main gear (ground contact) 146.5" fuel 149" rear seat 174" avionics bay behind rear seat 188" battery box 199" ADF electronics tray 214" tail skid 338" To weigh the airplane and calculate empty weight and CG: 1. Put a scale under each of the wheels. 2. Level the aircraft by adding or removing air from the tires with a level on the canopy rails. 3. Multiply the weight at each wheel by its station to get the moment at each wheel. 4. Sum the moments and sum the weights. The sum of the weights is the empty weight of the airplane. 5. Divide the sum of the moments by the sum of the weights to get new CG. Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hal Morley" <yakjock(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Seats
Date: May 25, 2002
Oregon Aero also makes custom seats. I plane to have a set made there later n the year. Wherever you go, make sure you have enough support in them to clear the lip of the bucket seat. The last thing anyone would want is to have the lip of the seat cutting into your leg. Hal Morley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Thayer" <doug.thayer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Cowl struts
Date: May 25, 2002
I have been having problems with one of those little struts that hold the ring around the shutters in place. The 90 degree strut at 4 o'clock (looking from the front to the rear) and the diagonal strut at about 4:30 keep breaking. The ring is a little loose from the cowl at that point. I've started with having to replace the diagonal a couple of times and now the 90 strut has also failed. Any ideas? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Thayer" <doug.thayer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Primer Line
Date: May 25, 2002
I have also found my primer line leaking. The one for the right side of the primer. It was leaking right where the hose comes through the firewall on the top right side of the firewall. I have had trouble setting the mixture accurately to get a smooth running engine. I suspect that this might be the culprit. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Thayer" <doug.thayer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Uneven Fuel Burn
Date: May 25, 2002
I have had similar problems with uneven fuel burn in the past right tank feeds good, left tank feeds so-so. Pulled tanks, blew out vent lines, etc.. Even moved rudder trim tab out so that I flew in a slip all the time to see how it would feed THAT way. It still fed more from right just not as bad. They were almost burning even... It makes for a heck of a look in formation. Am trying a new fuel T with the flapper valves. It is NOT all about balanced flight. I am wondering if in anybody has looked at that debubbler return line? Where does it go? Does it tend to return more to the left side? It must go back into the vent system somewhere becuase fuel gets into vent lines when you put a little pressure on the fuel feed lines with the tanks out of the loop. I guess I could crawl under the panel to look but it's alot easier asking someone else thats already done it. Doug Thayer YAK-52 (817) 488-1724 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Linebaugh" <linedog(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: EAA Warbird Newsletter Survey
Date: May 25, 2002
Just got home and found the latest EAA Warbird newsletter on my desk...and the Warbird Reader Survey... So..perhaps this is a chance for us to be heard at EAA? Anybody else think to put down on the survey that we want more articles/coverage for the fastest growing...and soon to be the largest segment of the warbird community....us!? If you haven't tossed the survey yet...give it some thought? Maybe if they got 50 surveys all saying the same thing they would take notice? Jeff Linebaugh linedog(at)peoplepc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Walt Lannon" <lannon(at)look.ca>
Subject: Re: CG information for the CJ6A
Date: May 25, 2002
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> Subject: Yak-List: CG information for the CJ6A > > Here are the stations and limits for a CJ6A in case someone wants to do > some calculations. > > Standard datum: 24" forward of the propeller axial center. > MAC: 65" chord, 42" outboard of the wing joint centerline. > > (All inch measurements are aft of the standard datum plane.) Brian - I was not aware there was a "standard datum". Where did you find that? The MAC length is 1747 mm = 68.78" The lateral location of the MAC is immaterial for the purpose we are concerned with here. I expect you have determined the length (65") and location of the MGC or mean geometric chord which is not exactly the same but probably close enough for government work. > Max forward CG on ground: 11% of MAC, 121.15" > Max forward CG in flight: 12.5% of MAC, 122.13" > Max rear CG in flight: 24.1% of MAC, 129.67" Max. forward cg with the landing gear down is 17% not 11%. What you are referencing here is the VERTICAL location of the CG ABOVE the MAC for an empty aircraft. The 12.5% you refer to as the in flight forward cg limit is in fact the VERTICAL (y axis) location of the cg for the fully loaded aircraft. These are of no concern for our purposes in locating the longitudinal (x axis) CG. Max. rearward cg limit is correct at 24.1%. with the gear retracted. A normal landing gear retraction moment is not given in the specifications since no standard datum point is specified. You can't have a moment without a starting point. What they have done instead is tell us that the cg moves aft by the amount of 0.7% MAC (0.48 inches) when the gear is retracted. This is fine, once you have selected a datum point you can determine the moment if you wish to show it in the W&B report. The allowable C of G range is 124 mm or 4.9". Stations: > > Station name: Position: > > prop 24" > engine 45" > nosewheel (ground contact) 57" > engine accessory section 60" > oil tank 69" > front seat 123" > wing jack point 129" > front spar 131.5" > main gear (ground contact) 146.5" > fuel 149" > rear seat 174" > avionics bay behind rear seat 188" > battery box 199" > ADF electronics tray 214" > tail skid 338" > > To weigh the airplane and calculate empty weight and CG: > > 1. Put a scale under each of the wheels. > > 2. Level the aircraft by adding or removing air from the tires with a > level on the canopy rails. You might get the aircraft level by this method though you may have to remove nitrogen from the nose gear shock strut as well. But due to the nose gear caster angle you will change the dimension between the NG and MG centers and introduce an incorrect moment. The correct procedure (if you are using scales under the wheels) is to jack the aircraft and fit appropriate blocking under the main wheels to level the aircraft. If you are using load cells at the jack points then blocking is not required. The blocks are tare weight which is deducted from the main wheel measured weights. > 3. Multiply the weight at each wheel by its station to get the moment at > each wheel. > > 4. Sum the moments and sum the weights. The sum of the weights is the > empty weight of the airplane. Yes, assuming it was weighed with no oil or fuel. If not the weights and moments of those items must be deducted to determine the empty weight and CG. Standard practice is zero fuel. Oil is generally acceptable as the quantity is small and readily identified for calculation purposes. Walt lannon(at)look.ca > 5. Divide the sum of the moments by the sum of the weights to get new CG. > > Brian Lloyd > brian(at)lloyd.com > +1.530.676.1113 - voice > +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2002
Subject: [ Paul B Juergens ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Paul B Juergens Subject: Yak fire http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/pjuer@earthlink.net.05.26.2002/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2002
Subject: [ Terry Calloway ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Terry Calloway Subject: SnF http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/TCalloway@datatechnique.com.05.26.2002/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2002
Subject: [ Melinda Whiteway ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Melinda Whiteway Subject: Operation Red Star http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/mmwhiteway@yahoo.com.05.26.2002/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2002
Subject: [ Steve "Wheels" Wieland ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Steve "Wheels" Wieland Subject: 2 ship fingertip formation of Yak-52's at Zelienople,Pa. http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/wheels@attbi.com.05.26.2002/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2002
From: Craig Payne <cpayne(at)mc.net>
Subject: Re: EAA Warbird Newsletter Survey
Jeff and all: It's possible nobody is listening at the other end of that survey...the NEW warbird Executive Director resigned 2 months ago, shortly after getting the position. I heard he went to fly with AA. What this means for us remains to be seen. I believe we made at least one friend in the WB Air Boss at SNF when we consistently showed up with airplanes to put up overhead during the WB airshow. His load was even lighter since he didn't have to recover us at Lakeland. Craig Payne Jeff Linebaugh wrote: > > > Just got home and found the latest EAA Warbird newsletter on my desk...and > the Warbird Reader Survey... > > So..perhaps this is a chance for us to be heard at EAA? Anybody else think > to put down on the survey that we want more articles/coverage for the > fastest growing...and soon to be the largest segment of the warbird > community....us!? If you haven't tossed the survey yet...give it some > thought? Maybe if they got 50 surveys all saying the same thing they would > take notice? > > Jeff Linebaugh > linedog(at)peoplepc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Date: May 26, 2002
Subject: Week-end
keith.goolsby(at)eds.com, gaf127enl(at)msn.com, roja(at)cwcom.net, DrRSWms(at)aol.com, MDSHELLEY(at)aol.com, cd001633(at)mindspring.com, cpayne(at)mc.net, yakjock(at)msn.com, linedog(at)peoplepc.com, bdogltd(at)pacbell.net, wfricke(at)mediaone.net, finleycj6(at)juno.com, BDorsey777(at)aol.com, wildf15c(at)hotmail.com, rvfltd(at)televar.com, Swifty305(at)aol.com, tcalloway(at)datatechnique.com, paulcfitzgerald(at)attbi.com, mason.t(at)worldnet.att.net, WaltOrth(at)aol.com, radialpower(at)cox.net.Sevendips@aol.com, CEParaiso(at)aol.com, Inetnovice(at)aol.com, JGoolsby(at)umaryland.edu, artziggy6(at)yahoo.com, moreira_thais(at)hotmail.com, vicky(at)shippei.com, WINDSURFE(at)aol.com, paraisoam(at)surfbest.net, EdrisDee(at)aol.com, Ckelso17(at)earthlink.net, jerrybrun(at)yahoo.com, KROwen(at)charter.net, mentor(at)cheshir.com, PaulSanden(at)aol.com, Ruthcopes(at)aol.com, carriesuerowe(at)yahoo.com, paulbeth.mullen(at)worldnet.att.net, ddenham7(at)home.com, wpairprt(at)tdstelme.net, garvey(at)attbi.com Just returned from TMB (Tamiami airport south of Miami) Kermit Weeks use to have a museum there. Some local enthusiast took over the fascility after Weeks left and have started a flying museum called "Wings Over Miami." At this point most all of Weeks stuff has been move up to Poke City and the Fantasy Of Flight. The new museum is struggling at this point, but the crowd I saw there this weekend is hearting. The folks there set up a little flying schedule for the whole day. Each flying group was assigned a :25 minute fly by window which we did twice each day. One one point each day, all aircraft were launch for a big fly-by. The weather (as always in Florida) was perfect, and the control tower folk very accommodating. It went very well, We had: 6 CJ-6As, 2 Yak-52s, 6 T-6s, a BT-13, PBY5A Catolinia, Mig-15 utb, L-29, 2 T-28s, and a French Volga jet, all flying. Also there was a Yak-18T (beautifully done), an O-2, and this and that of other nonmilitary stuff. Being the nice guy that I am. And wanting to do something for museum (since they paid for my gas, room, car, and lunches), I found myself volunteering to recover the flight controls for their Yak-11. She was a little doggy but straight and whole before hurricane Andrew drop some of the hangar on top of her (10 years ago now folks). She is completely rebuildable and will make a great flying exhibit for the museum. Anyway it should take up some of my free time. BTW I just finished rebuilding the pilot/copilot seat for a CAF SNB-5 based in Deland, Fl. LOTS of work needed there. One of the events were commentaries of experiences by WW2 vets to the crowds there. Folks listened. Like all the stories I hear around the B-17 & B-24, they were heart wrenching at times. Well, tomorrow, I'll clean up the Dragon and get the bird poop off her rudder. I seem to have come up with a dragging brake, so that'll will have to be fixed. All in all I'd say I've had a great week end. Happy Memorial Day friends. And remember who those who gave their last and greatest gift. Jim Goolsby cjpilot710(at)aol.com 386-467-3313 voice 386-467-3193 fax 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "There is no "innocence" in war. All collateral damage is acceptable." unk. "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2002
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: CG information for the CJ6A
At 11:24 PM 5/25/2002, you wrote: > > (All inch measurements are aft of the standard datum plane.) >Brian - I was not aware there was a "standard datum". Where did you find >that? The standard datum can be anywhere you want it to be. Someone just happened to pick 24" ahead of the prop. I like having a datum that is outside the airplane so that I am never faced with a zero-length arm. I was recently helping Walt Fricke with a W&B problem and his information happened to place the standard datum at the firewall. It doesn't matter where you put it, just so long as you keep using the same one for your calculations. Hence my point about there being no standardization of "standard" datum planes. Would you prefer I rework the info using a different datum? Easy enough to do. >The MAC length is 1747 mm = 68.78" OK, I'll bite. I will grant you that, for the sake of argument, your information is correct and mine in error. Mine was provided by Yakity Yaks with the aircraft. I assumed (uh oh!) that it was correct given that, 1) Yakity Yaks knows what they are doing, 2) it was so complete and neatly presented as part of the paperwork package. If you have a pointer to the Nanchang documents would you please forward them to me so that I can look them up and translate the numbers (not the writing!) for myself. >The lateral location of the MAC is immaterial for the purpose we are >concerned with here. Unless you are using the chord at a particular location on the wing to be the MAC. Then the lateral distance tells you where the MAC is. But I will defer. >I expect you have determined the length (65") and >location of the MGC or mean geometric chord which is not exactly the same >but probably close enough for government work. It probably is. As I said, I didn't do the work myself. It was part of my aircraft documentation package. Serves me right to assume that information given to me is correct without verifying it for myself. That is why I am asking for the information from the Nanchang documents so I can verify it. > > Max forward CG on ground: 11% of MAC, 121.15" > > Max forward CG in flight: 12.5% of MAC, 122.13" > > Max rear CG in flight: 24.1% of MAC, 129.67" > >Max. forward cg with the landing gear down is 17% not 11%. Probably a typo on my doc then. I could have read it wrong. >What you are >referencing here is the VERTICAL location of the CG ABOVE the MAC for an >empty aircraft. OK, I will buy that. That certainly isn't stated in my documentation. It certainly doesn't make sense for the forward CG limit on the ground to be aft of the forward CG limit in the air. >The 12.5% you refer to as the in flight forward cg limit is in fact the >VERTICAL (y axis) location of the cg for the fully loaded aircraft. > >These are of no concern for our purposes in locating the longitudinal (x >axis) CG. I agree but what really concerns me is that the documentation provided by Yakity Yaks could be so wrong. This means that I have been promulgating incorrect information, something that bothers me greatly. >Max. rearward cg limit is correct at 24.1%. with the gear retracted. A >normal landing gear retraction moment is not given in the specifications >since no standard datum point is specified. You can't have a moment without >a starting point. And it doesn't matter where the datum is since all the moments will be relative to that datum plane. Once you translate MAC and percent of MAC to the datum of your choice, you can figure out where the CG is. >What they have done instead is tell us that the cg moves >aft by the amount of 0.7% MAC (0.48 inches) when the gear is retracted. This >is fine, once you have selected a datum point you can determine the moment >if you wish to show it in the W&B report. That works and it doesn't matter what datum plane you chose then. >The allowable C of G range is 124 mm or 4.9". Ahhhh, that is a fair bit different. Seems anyone who has W&B data from Yakity Yaks needs to check their paperwork. Now I really need to find the Chinese data and adjust my paperwork. > Stations: > > > > Station name: Position: > > > > prop 24" > > engine 45" > > nosewheel (ground contact) 57" > > engine accessory section 60" > > oil tank 69" > > front seat 123" > > wing jack point 129" > > front spar 131.5" > > main gear (ground contact) 146.5" > > fuel 149" > > rear seat 174" > > avionics bay behind rear seat 188" > > battery box 199" > > ADF electronics tray 214" > > tail skid 338" > > > > To weigh the airplane and calculate empty weight and CG: > > > > 1. Put a scale under each of the wheels. > > > > 2. Level the aircraft by adding or removing air from the tires with a > > level on the canopy rails. > >You might get the aircraft level by this method though you may have to >remove nitrogen from the nose gear shock strut as well. But due to the nose >gear caster angle you will change the dimension between the NG and MG >centers and introduce an incorrect moment. yup. You may need to put a block under the main gear tires. >The correct procedure (if you are using scales under the wheels) is to jack >the aircraft and fit appropriate blocking under the main wheels to level the >aircraft. If you are using load cells at the jack points then blocking is >not required. The blocks are tare weight which is deducted from the main >wheel measured weights. > > > 3. Multiply the weight at each wheel by its station to get the moment at > > each wheel. > > > > 4. Sum the moments and sum the weights. The sum of the weights is the > > empty weight of the airplane. > >Yes, assuming it was weighed with no oil or fuel. You have to leave unusable fuel in the aircraft. For that matter, you can weigh it with known fuel and oil then subtract their weights and moments to figure empty weight, moment, and CG. >If not the weights and >moments of those items must be deducted to determine the empty weight and >CG. Standard practice is zero fuel. Oil is generally acceptable as the >quantity is small and readily identified for calculation purposes. Insofar as 3.5 gallons of oil is a small quantity. I guess this is yet another lesson to me to be rigidly accurate in all things. I will indulge in self-flagellation with a CD-ROM in penance. "Forgive me father for I have sinned ..." Brian Lloyd brian(at)lloyd.com +1.530.676.1113 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Jefferies , YAK UK Ltd" <yakuk(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: fire
Date: May 27, 2002
sorry to here about the fire Paul had but it does illustrate how important it is to recognise manufactures life limits on hoses. Best regards, Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike McCoy" <mike(at)aircraftsales.com>
Subject: Re: CG information for the CJ6A
Date: May 27, 2002
Brian, All of this weight and balance information is on page 5 of the manual you were given by Yakity Yaks. Obviously, it is difficult to dispute the information that you claim you were given by Fred, but all the weight and balance info that Yakity Yaks gives out is accurate and is located on page 5 of the manual. Instead of blaming someone else for your mistakes as usual, why not just say that you got caught putting out more B.S. on the Yak List! I have asked you time after time to not publish information when you don't know what you are talking about. Mike McCoy > > At 11:24 PM 5/25/2002, you wrote: > > > (All inch measurements are aft of the standard datum plane.) > >Brian - I was not aware there was a "standard datum". Where did you find > >that? > > The standard datum can be anywhere you want it to be. Someone just > happened to pick 24" ahead of the prop. I like having a datum that is > outside the airplane so that I am never faced with a zero-length arm. > > I was recently helping Walt Fricke with a W&B problem and his information > happened to place the standard datum at the firewall. It doesn't matter > where you put it, just so long as you keep using the same one for your > calculations. Hence my point about there being no standardization of > "standard" datum planes. Would you prefer I rework the info using a > different datum? Easy enough to do. > > >The MAC length is 1747 mm = 68.78" > > OK, I'll bite. I will grant you that, for the sake of argument, your > information is correct and mine in error. Mine was provided by Yakity Yaks > with the aircraft. I assumed (uh oh!) that it was correct given that, 1) > Yakity Yaks knows what they are doing, 2) it was so complete and neatly > presented as part of the paperwork package. If you have a pointer to the > Nanchang documents would you please forward them to me so that I can look > them up and translate the numbers (not the writing!) for myself. > > >The lateral location of the MAC is immaterial for the purpose we are > >concerned with here. > > Unless you are using the chord at a particular location on the wing to be > the MAC. Then the lateral distance tells you where the MAC is. But I will > defer. > > >I expect you have determined the length (65") and > >location of the MGC or mean geometric chord which is not exactly the same > >but probably close enough for government work. > > It probably is. As I said, I didn't do the work myself. It was part of my > aircraft documentation package. Serves me right to assume that information > given to me is correct without verifying it for myself. That is why I am > asking for the information from the Nanchang documents so I can verify it. > > > > Max forward CG on ground: 11% of MAC, 121.15" > > > Max forward CG in flight: 12.5% of MAC, 122.13" > > > Max rear CG in flight: 24.1% of MAC, 129.67" > > > >Max. forward cg with the landing gear down is 17% not 11%. > > Probably a typo on my doc then. I could have read it wrong. > > >What you are > >referencing here is the VERTICAL location of the CG ABOVE the MAC for an > >empty aircraft. > > OK, I will buy that. That certainly isn't stated in my documentation. It > certainly doesn't make sense for the forward CG limit on the ground to be > aft of the forward CG limit in the air. > > >The 12.5% you refer to as the in flight forward cg limit is in fact the > >VERTICAL (y axis) location of the cg for the fully loaded aircraft. > > > >These are of no concern for our purposes in locating the longitudinal (x > >axis) CG. > > I agree but what really concerns me is that the documentation provided by > Yakity Yaks could be so wrong. This means that I have been promulgating > incorrect information, something that bothers me greatly. > > >Max. rearward cg limit is correct at 24.1%. with the gear retracted. A > >normal landing gear retraction moment is not given in the specifications > >since no standard datum point is specified. You can't have a moment without > >a starting point. > > And it doesn't matter where the datum is since all the moments will be > relative to that datum plane. Once you translate MAC and percent of MAC to > the datum of your choice, you can figure out where the CG is. > > >What they have done instead is tell us that the cg moves > >aft by the amount of 0.7% MAC (0.48 inches) when the gear is retracted. This > >is fine, once you have selected a datum point you can determine the moment > >if you wish to show it in the W&B report. > > That works and it doesn't matter what datum plane you chose then. > > >The allowable C of G range is 124 mm or 4.9". > > Ahhhh, that is a fair bit different. Seems anyone who has W&B data from > Yakity Yaks needs to check their paperwork. Now I really need to find the > Chinese data and adjust my paperwork. > > > > Stations: > > > > > > Station name: Position: > > > > > > prop 24" > > > engine 45" > > > nosewheel (ground contact) 57" > > > engine accessory section 60" > > > oil tank 69" > > > front seat 123" > > > wing jack point 129" > > > front spar 131.5" > > > main gear (ground contact) 146.5" > > > fuel 149" > > > rear seat 174" > > > avionics bay behind rear seat 188" > > > battery box 199" > > > ADF electronics tray 214" > > > tail skid 338" > > > > > > To weigh the airplane and calculate empty weight and CG: > > > > > > 1. Put a scale under each of the wheels. > > > > > > 2. Level the aircraft by adding or removing air from the tires with a > > > level on the canopy rails. > > > >You might get the aircraft level by this method though you may have to > >remove nitrogen from the nose gear shock strut as well. But due to the nose > >gear caster angle you will change the dimension between the NG and MG > >centers and introduce an incorrect moment. > > yup. You may need to put a block under the main gear tires. > > >The correct procedure (if you are using scales under the wheels) is to jack > >the aircraft and fit appropriate blocking under the main wheels to level the > >aircraft. If you are using load cells at the jack points then blocking is > >not required. The blocks are tare weight which is deducted from the main > >wheel measured weights. > > > > > 3. Multiply the weight at each wheel by its station to get the moment at > > > each wheel. > > > > > > 4. Sum the moments and sum the weights. The sum of the weights is the > > > empty weight of the airplane. > > > >Yes, assuming it was weighed with no oil or fuel. > > You have to leave unusable fuel in the aircraft. For that matter, you can > weigh it with known fuel and oil then subtract their weights and moments to > figure empty weight, moment, and CG. > > >If not the weights and > >moments of those items must be deducted to determine the empty weight and > >CG. Standard practice is zero fuel. Oil is generally acceptable as the > >quantity is small and readily identified for calculation purposes. > > Insofar as 3.5 gallons of oil is a small quantity. > > I guess this is yet another lesson to me to be rigidly accurate in all > things. I will indulge in self-flagellation with a CD-ROM in penance. > > "Forgive me father for I have sinned ..." > > > Brian Lloyd > brian(at)lloyd.com > +1.530.676.1113 - voice


May 13, 2002 - May 27, 2002

Yak-Archive.digest.vol-az