Yak-Archive.digest.vol-az
May 13, 2002 - May 27, 2002
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: | "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Power Settings |
>
> At 03:09 PM 5/12/2002, you wrote:
> > >
> > > Max continuous power is 2250 RPM and 710 mm (28") hg MAP. You can
> > > maintain this all day long (theoretically).
> > >
> > > For acro I normally use 2150 RPM and 685 mm (27") hg MAP. Fuel burn
seems
> > > to be about 16 GPH in this configuration.
> > >
> > > For economy cruise I do the following:
> > >
> > > Climb to 11,500', reduce the MAP by 25mm (1") with the throttle, set
1850
> > > RPM, and lean for peak EGT.
> >
> >Brian,
> >I am not sure what you mean when you say "peak EGT". Do you mean max EGT,
or
> >some other value?
>
> Max EGT. Slowly lean the mixture and wait for the EGT to stabilize. As
> you continue to lean the EGT will continue to rise until you get to a
point
> where further leaning results in a drop in EGT. You then want to richen
> the mixture to get back to the peak value.
>
> Theoretically you can run on the lean side of peak EGT but I have found
> that the Housai engine will start to surge. I suspect that the carb
> changes the mixture slightly as the mass airflow changes, the engine power
> then changes, which causes a change in prop pitch. It will then just
cycle
> back and forth about 50 RPM until you richen the mixture.
>
> In spam cans you are normally admonished not to run at peak EGT or you
> might cause damage to the engine. This is because the cylinders in a
> carburated Lycoming or Continental engine get very different mixtures.
One
> cylinder may be at 100 degrees rich of peak EGT while another is running
at
> peak EGT. OTOH, the supercharger does a good job of further atomizing and
> mixing the fuel/air mix thus delivering the same mixture to all the
> cylinders. This lets you run closer to or even on the lean side of peak
> EGT, power permitting. Lean of peak operation was normal for the big
> radial engines in cruise.
>
> Lycoming says that once you get below about 65% power there is nothing you
> can do with the mixture control that will hurt the engine so I am
> extrapolating that to imply that running the Housai engine at peak EGT at
> low power settings is not going to hurt anything either. At the power
> settings I was talking about, 1850 RPM and about 21" MAP, I get a rough
> calculation of 52% power so I think we are pretty safe.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
ahhhh thanks!
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: MP settings
>
> At 03:32 PM 5/12/2002, you wrote:
> >
> >Brian Lloyd wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > At 02:21 AM 5/12/2002, you wrote:
> > > >Why this debate about MP setting? Its all in the book, dont tell me
> > > >there are no books on the a/c in the USA !!
> > >
> > > I have looked through the books and I don't see anything that looks at
all
> > > like the kind of power setting chart I am used to seeing. Sure there
are
> > > references to power settings in different configurations but they
don't
> > > give any percentages or fuel flows.
> > >
> >Brian;
> >
> >Do you have Chapter VIII, page 188 of the "Supplementary Description of
> >the Chujiao-6 J1A Airplane" ? It has a table comparing the 260 & 285HP
> >models with: RPM settings, MP, HP for setting and fuel flow
> >(grams/HP-Hr).
>
> Nope, I have not seen that. OTOH, I have the "free" CD here so I can
> perhaps look it up. ...
>
> I did. It is there. I had not seen that before. For the rest of you
> (Ernie!):
>
> Power RPM MAP HP fuel flow
> T/O (100%) 2350 845mm 285 29.7 GPH
> Rated(95%) 2250 840mm 270 26.7 GPH
> 65% 1950 660mm 160 14.1 GPH
> 50% 1790 600mm 130 11.0 GPH
>
> I calculated the fuel flow from the fuel specifics (g/hp*hr) as follows:
>
> g/hp*hr * hp = g/hr
> g/hr * 1 lb/2200 gm = lb/hr
> lb/hr * 1 gal/6 lb = gal/hr
>
> I use the more conservative numbers from the fuel specific column.
>
> No correction for altitude or density altitude so I suspect these numbers
> are for sea level and standard temperature and pressure.
>
>
> >Section 2 (page 190-191) has performance curves also.
>
> Yes, there is some interesting stuff there too. For those of you who want
> to look at that, you can get the file from my CJ6 web site at:
>
>
http://cj6.com/cj6_docs/Technical%20%20Specifications%20Manual/08%20CJ6A%20S
upplementary%20%20Info.tif
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | billm(at)corp.phoenixintl.com |
I would like to endorse what Mike wrote below. I just returned from Mike's
two day aerobatic flying course in Chillicothe, and I am more excited about
flying this morning than I was the day I soloed twenty two years ago.
I learned more about real flying in those two days than I did in the past
twenty years. It was an unbelievably fun and productive experience because:
1) My instructor was a patient and effective teacher
2) My instructor knew my airplane and its systems inside out
3) My instructor was intimately familiar with the flying characteristics of
the CJ6A
4) My instructor is a fantastic aerobatic pilot himself who can teach these
maneuvers with total confidence
Mike didn't ask me to say these words. And I know for a fact that he is not
the only guy qualified to provide the kind of experience I just had. The
question is, after spending the tens of thousands of dollars it takes to own
even the least expensive of these machines, why would anyone worry about
spending a few hundred dollars to learn how fly it safely, and up to its
potential?
I feel exactly the same about maintenance.
Bill McInerney
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike McCoy [mailto:mike(at)aircraftsales.com]
Subject: Yak-List: Cheapo
I agree with what Doug and Mark said about this subject, but I am not at all
surprised that someone would be too cheap to spend $45 on a manual. There
are many in the CJ6A community that are too cheap to buy good airplanes,
maintain their airplanes, get proper training, buy manuals, checklists, or
spend money to go to the clinics.
Remember the guy on the Yak list that was too cheap to spend a few dollars
to attend the YPA clinic?
There is a guy flying around (when his airplane is flyable) that has no
training because he thought my training cost was too much. He said that he
knew of CFI's charging $10 per hour in GA and was too cheap to pay more for
CJ6A training. I don't know about Doug and Mark but I can't afford to eat
on $10 per hour. The same guy has a "mechanic" that he pays $10 per hour to
maintain his airplane. Needless to say his airplane is nearly always broken
down! I won't have any contact with this person and won't sell him parts.
I believe that he is a hazard to the public and the CJ6A community.
I have seen several people save a few dollars purchasing a bargain basement
cheap CJ and then spending tens of thousands of dollars to try to keep it
flying. Several of these folks have had accidents (and yes several are on
this list).
Anyone lurking on this list has seen people assembling their airplanes based
on the info that they got on this list and in many cases they definitely
have gotten what they paid for. I certainly wouldn't fly in an airplane
that was built on advice from an internet list.
We also see people apparently learning to fly based on info that the have
gotten from the list. Again, you get what you pay for.
The fact is that flying is expensive. If you don't have the money to do
things right -- I suggest bowling!
Mike (I have a cheap bowling ball for sale) McCoy
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | To lean, or not to lean |
From: | "Barry W. Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
>>
>> Personally, I would rather have the lever
>> and an EGT gauge but making it automatic tends to keep the neophytes
>> from
>> breaking things.
>
> Then it should be on the 285 as well!
>
> No, it shouldn't. There should be an EGT or O2 sensor and a mixture
> control and then students should be taught how to use them.
Wait a minute? First you suggest the reason it's engineered the way it
is keeps things simplified, then I use your suggestion in a parallel
setting and you disagree? I'm surprised, you usually think things
through better than this, but since you disagreed with me, I'll argue my
point. :)
A mixture control in either the CJ or the Yak is rather superfluous from
a training perspective since the next step for either the Chinese or the
Russians is a turbine. So teaching a student in one of these planes, in
their originally intended environment, to control EGT is teaching them
something they'll not use again. Correct?
OTOH, you could argue that temps are important in a turbine so this
helps them get used to that. However, when they do most of their flying
close to the ground and don't go cross country, there doesn't seem to be
much a practical advantage either, especially when considering the
operating and MX procedures.
There, I've said my peace. I feel much better now and will leave it
alone...thanks for the cheap therapy.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Power Settings |
At 07:28 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
>
>Unfortunately, my CJ doesnt have an EGT guage and I dont think it ever came
>with one.
So install one.
>So what did the original pilots do to find peak?
They didn't. The mixture control in the CJ6A was marked in meters and you
just set the lever next to your altitude. The only problem with this
mechanism is that it assumes that the carburetor and its linkages are all
properly adjusted.
>I was told to put
>the mixture lever parallel to the throttle, but that sounds a bit crude.
Not only is it crude, it is wrong. Stock CJ6As have an interconnect tab
that automatically moves the mixture control to full rich when the throttle
is retarded. (The mixture lever is prevented from being more forward than
the throttle lever.) The only problem is that it allows you to move the
mixture control to full lean when the throttle is fully open. I dislike
this mechanism because sometimes it makes sense to lean the engine during
ground operation. All CJ6As I have seen have removed this tab.
The bottom line is knowing what the mixture actually is. There are two
ways I know of to do this easily: measure EGT or measure oxygen content in
the exhaust. EGT is itself indirect because you have to adjust the mixture
to see the effect on EGT to identify the proper mixture. Peak EGT occurs
at the point of proper stochastic mixture, i.e. the proper ratio of fuel to
oxygen that results in total combustion with neither excess fuel nor excess
O2 in the exhaust.
The oxygen sensor is an even better way to determine mixture because it
actually measures excess O2 (mixture too lean). This is how computers in
automobile engines measure and adjust the mixture automatically.
So without either an EGT or an O2 sensor/display, you really have no idea
what the mixture is in your airplane. You have to trust that the carb and
linkage are properly adjusted or you have to err on the rich side to ensure
not causing damage to the engine at high power settings.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: To lean, or not to lean |
At 08:43 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
>
> >>
> >> Personally, I would rather have the lever
> >> and an EGT gauge but making it automatic tends to keep the neophytes
> >> from
> >> breaking things.
> >
> > Then it should be on the 285 as well!
> >
> > No, it shouldn't. There should be an EGT or O2 sensor and a mixture
> > control and then students should be taught how to use them.
>
>Wait a minute? First you suggest the reason it's engineered the way it
>is keeps things simplified, then I use your suggestion in a parallel
>setting and you disagree? I'm surprised, you usually think things
>through better than this, but since you disagreed with me, I'll argue my
>point. :)
I did think it out. I just went a little fast for you I guess.
>A mixture control in either the CJ or the Yak is rather superfluous from
>a training perspective since the next step for either the Chinese or the
>Russians is a turbine. So teaching a student in one of these planes, in
>their originally intended environment, to control EGT is teaching them
>something they'll not use again. Correct?
Albert Einstein once put it very profoundly, "Things should be made as
simple as possible and no simpler." A radial engine is not a turbine
engine. It should not be operated like a turbine engine. The pilot should
be trained understand the proper operation and limitations of the equipment
he/she is using.
That said, let's look at the cultural background. The Russians and the
Chinese come from the background of a totalitarian state where the state
dictates how one should do things, including the "proper" operation of
their equipment. The pilots are not encouraged to understand, only to
operate by rote. From their point of view, it makes sense to hide the
operating details.
But hiding the operating details does not help us here in the US or other
places where we are responsible for the continued safe operation of our
aircraft. The "automatic" mixture control on the M14P is an open-loop
servo system based on an aneroid that adjusts the mixture based on pressure
altitude. While this prevents the pilot from screwing up and damaging the
engine it does not prevent the aneroid from screwing up and damaging the
engine. Remember, the automatic mixture control is dependent on the proper
operation and ground adjustment of the automatic mixture control.
If I have a manual mixture control and an EGT or O2 sensor, I now have a
closed loop servo system where the pilot acts as the feedback loop. The
pilot accepts EGT input and adjusts the mixture control accordingly. If
the parameters of the system change with age, the pilot compensates and the
engine continues to operate normally and without damage. Fortunately or
unfortunately, for this to work properly the pilot needs to understand
his/her role in the continued safe operation of the engine. It also
increases the pilot's workload.
So, if you do not want to train the pilot to understand the system, the
automatic mixture control may be a better choice from the global
perspective of a large fleet. If you are interested in the health and
well-being of an individual aircraft, giving the pilot more training, more
information, and more control is probably the better choice.
YMMV.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Subject: | Re: Power Settings |
On that note, does anyone know of a GEM for 9 CYL engines. I used to use the
JP EDM-800 in my Dakota and it was nice to see EGT's/CHT's for all the
Cylinders, as well as fuel flow. If I were to install an EGT guage is there
any one cylinder better suited to the probe? My Lycoming had upto a 200
degree F difference between the hottest and coolest cylinder (the hottest
cylinder not necessarily being the leanest).
Why I've been doing is trying to adjust the mixture untill the engine ran
rough and back it off, but I have the stupid tab installed which doesnt
allow me to move the lever past the throttle, which really stinks becuase I
like to run lean while I'm taxi'ing in order to not foul my plugs.
Without referring me to my manual, is it a simple matter to remove the tab?
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings
>
> At 07:28 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
> >
> >Unfortunately, my CJ doesnt have an EGT guage and I dont think it ever
came
> >with one.
>
> So install one.
>
> >So what did the original pilots do to find peak?
>
> They didn't. The mixture control in the CJ6A was marked in meters and you
> just set the lever next to your altitude. The only problem with this
> mechanism is that it assumes that the carburetor and its linkages are all
> properly adjusted.
>
> >I was told to put
> >the mixture lever parallel to the throttle, but that sounds a bit crude.
>
> Not only is it crude, it is wrong. Stock CJ6As have an interconnect tab
> that automatically moves the mixture control to full rich when the
throttle
> is retarded. (The mixture lever is prevented from being more forward than
> the throttle lever.) The only problem is that it allows you to move the
> mixture control to full lean when the throttle is fully open. I dislike
> this mechanism because sometimes it makes sense to lean the engine during
> ground operation. All CJ6As I have seen have removed this tab.
>
> The bottom line is knowing what the mixture actually is. There are two
> ways I know of to do this easily: measure EGT or measure oxygen content in
> the exhaust. EGT is itself indirect because you have to adjust the
mixture
> to see the effect on EGT to identify the proper mixture. Peak EGT occurs
> at the point of proper stochastic mixture, i.e. the proper ratio of fuel
to
> oxygen that results in total combustion with neither excess fuel nor
excess
> O2 in the exhaust.
>
> The oxygen sensor is an even better way to determine mixture because it
> actually measures excess O2 (mixture too lean). This is how computers in
> automobile engines measure and adjust the mixture automatically.
>
> So without either an EGT or an O2 sensor/display, you really have no idea
> what the mixture is in your airplane. You have to trust that the carb and
> linkage are properly adjusted or you have to err on the rich side to
ensure
> not causing damage to the engine at high power settings.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mark and Alison Haskell" <markally(at)gwi.net> |
Subject: | Landing Gear Woes |
Hi Y'all,
The ol' Maineyak (YAK-52 N52MY) has landing gear that won't retract.
Main Air Valve definitely ON, pressures normal, rear cockpit gear handle
in neutral. Front cockpit gear lever moved up for retraction and
nothing happens. Handle returned to down position and tried again with
same results. Gear down lock lights remain lit - barber poles show no
sign of movement. Rear cockpit gear handle cycled with no results
either. But, at least it is locked down instead of up. Any thoughts on
where to start? I've arranged jacks and hangar space for Thursday.
Also, I've heard people saying to use Pneumatic tool oil for lubrication
in the system, and I've also heard a combination of Alcohol and
Glycerine bantered about. I want to do what is right and best, not just
cheap or easy. Please educate me on what the right stuff is - including
where to get it and how to mix it if necessary. Thanks a lot!
Mark Haskell
N52MY
markally(at)gwi.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | D Zeman <curious_wings(at)yahoo.com> |
Mr McCoy,
I want to preface saying that I am reasonably sure you
are trying your best to help people on this list. But
from your past postings it is evident that you are a
man of extremes. There is cheapo flying and
spend-it-at-will flying and a lot in between. This
you seem to forget or it gets lost in your postings.
I consider myself a frugal flyer and aircraft owner.
I assure you that my plane is maintained in immaculate
condition and my training was excellent and ongoing.
I have plenty of money to own, fly and maintain my
aircraft, but I will not waste money. I do not buy
Avgas at my airport because it is over a $1 more per
gallon that at the self-serve just across the way.
Both FBOs get the gas from the SAME distributor! So
why would you pay more when you dont have to for the
same thing! I buy oil in 55 gallon drums to save
money why pay $3 a quart when you can get the SAME
thing for less? Now I know you are going to say not
all maintenance and training is on the same level I
agree. But when people can get the same or better for
a lesser price why not? It is silly not to shop
around and get the BEST DEAL. The key word is best
not cheapest. But let us examine the other extreme.
Just because it is expensive does not mean it is the
best!
Your comments about online maintenance advice are well
taken if we are taking about major components and
difficult tasks. But getting a heads-up about
cleaning a check value, downloading a diagram and
doing it yourself (with youre A&Ps supervision) is
fine. Getting some help in troubleshooting and
benefiting from someone elses experience is great!
And I think you are wrong if you are trying to stifle
this soft of knowledge transfer. On that note, asking
someone what entry speed they use on their loops
should not be a problem if you have had the training
to perform such maneuvers. Granted, everyone should
get some transition, unusual attitude and aerobatic
training if they are going to perform such flights.
But just because someone puts a high price on his or
her training means nothing. Pilots and owners can
safely fly, enjoy, maintain and own CJs and Yaks
without attending YPA clinics (and with respect)
and/or buying parts from your company.
Knowledge is your best asset. Communication over the
Internet and this email list are a couple of sources
(not the end all). Gather your knowledge, learn all
you can and make best deal choice. Blindly spending
all you can to fly can get youre a** in as much
trouble as spending as little as you can.
D (Dont be fooled a high price tag) Zeman
Frugal Flyer
http://launch.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
My DG has now decided to act funny, when I push the button it just goes
round and round but doesnt stop at the correct heading like it used to.
I can stop it at the right heading and it will keep a relative heading.
I guess the flux gate isnt working, has anyone else experienced this and
is there a simple fix for it or am I S.O.L
Ernie
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG(at)Cairnwood.com> |
Subject: | Landing Gear Woes |
Mark Haskell:
Things to check for re: landing gear not retracting -
You may have a shuttle valve ball stuck/deformed allowing high pressure air
to pass to low pressure side. The balls can easily be replaced once you
determine which valve is the suspect. I've replaced all three balls (one
valve for each gear) and my plane is a 1996. I gave the ball info to Carl
Hays and he sells them (it is a US made ball). Contact me off line for more
details.
One way to test the shuttle valves is to bleed air from high pressure side
on nose gear valve. You can reach the fitting through the access panel on
right side of fuselage just aft of cowl. Use 17mm wrench on top fitting.
Let air bleed until you hear a thunk - shuttle valve resetting. Fly the Yak
and see if gear goes up. If so, you have at least one of three shuttle
valves that requires a new ball.
If it does not reset, then you need to check the valve just below and to the
right of pilot seat (you have to remove the seat). Sometimes this valve
gets stuck and needs to be serviced (this is not a shuttle valve - this is a
spring loaded check valve). You can hear air run through it when you first
turn on the main spigot after the plane has set for awhile (after residual
air in system has bled off). If you hear a thunk in this valve when you
first turn on the main spigot then you have a shuttle valve ball that is
stuck or deformed and you are not getting a good isolation from hp to low
pressure side.
The nose gear shuttle valve is the easiest to get to. Once removed the
valves can be opened with a good vise and a good quality socket. The metal
is soft so make sure you have a good mate with the socket (14mm I believe).
The valves look somewhat crude from the outside but are very nicely machined
on the inside.
To get to the valves in the wings requires removal of the umpteen screws in
the access panels around the gear legs. Takes patience but is worth it if
this is your problem. The replacement balls are Buna-n material at 60 or 70
d and I have had them in place for over 100 hours and no gear retraction
problems.
Another way to test the shuttle valves is to mount the plane on jacks and
watch carefully which gear legs move and which don't upon activation of the
gear leaver. In my case we had one (the left main) stay locked down and the
other gear each moved just a bit. I pulled the valve and opened it and the
ball was very distorted - more egg shaped than round. I decided to do all
three. My spares kit had two extra shuttle valves but the balls in each
were also out of round! That's when I went hunting for replacement balls
(no comments from the demented left coasters!).
Tool oil is what we use. Don't need much. I also charge my emergency
bottle with nitrogen rather than air.
Best,
Reade Genzlinger
Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation
215.914.0370
readeg(at)cairnwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: DG/Flux Gate |
Ours did something similar and it turned out to be an inexpensive (cheapo)
vacuum tube in the amplifier box. I believe Doug Sapp still has these tubes
in stock, priced very reasonably.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net> |
Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Woes |
Mark,
In looking at the schematic the only items that are common to all three
landing gear is main air valve; main air tank and the gear valve/lever
itself. If you started with the gear handle in the rear cockpit in the
neutral position and tried retracting the gear using the front cockpit
handle with nothing happening, my first suspicion would be a bad front
cockpit gear valve/lever assembly. But that's not going to always be the
case because the rear valve/lever is the main and it in other than the
neutral position overrides the front.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark and Alison Haskell" <markally(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Landing Gear Woes
>
> Hi Y'all,
>
> The ol' Maineyak (YAK-52 N52MY) has landing gear that won't retract.
> Main Air Valve definitely ON, pressures normal, rear cockpit gear handle
> in neutral. Front cockpit gear lever moved up for retraction and
> nothing happens. Handle returned to down position and tried again with
> same results. Gear down lock lights remain lit - barber poles show no
> sign of movement. Rear cockpit gear handle cycled with no results
> either. But, at least it is locked down instead of up. Any thoughts on
> where to start? I've arranged jacks and hangar space for Thursday.
> Also, I've heard people saying to use Pneumatic tool oil for lubrication
> in the system, and I've also heard a combination of Alcohol and
> Glycerine bantered about. I want to do what is right and best, not just
> cheap or easy. Please educate me on what the right stuff is - including
> where to get it and how to mix it if necessary. Thanks a lot!
>
> Mark Haskell
> N52MY
> markally(at)gwi.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
At 07:14 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
>
>I agree with what Doug and Mark said about this subject, but I am not at all
>surprised that someone would be too cheap to spend $45 on a manual.
Which manual? There are quite a few of them and several of them are of
little use to the pilot. For people who want to just read about it and try
to understand the systems, a set of ten manuals at $45 apiece may be
prohibitive. The scans on the CD-ROM (now on the CJ6 web site) may be
sufficient for them. I know that I prefer paper manuals especially for
material that I look up all the time. But for occasional use I will just
ask the question or borrow someone else's manual. I am not likely to buy a
bound manual just to look at it once.
Think about it, neither Cessna nor Lycoming provide overhaul and
maintenance manuals with their aircraft.
>There
>are many in the CJ6A community that are too cheap to buy good airplanes,
>maintain their airplanes, get proper training, buy manuals, checklists, or
>spend money to go to the clinics.
No one with an ounce of sense shortchanges themselves WRT training and
maintenance but not everyone has an ounce of sense. Some people are
consciously incompetent and prefer to remain that way. There is no help
for them.
>Remember the guy on the Yak list that was too cheap to spend a few dollars
>to attend the YPA clinic?
OTOH, have the YPA clinics done an excellent job in providing good
information? Sure there is a lot of hangar flying and lots of good
information flying around in bull sessions if you want to pick it up but I
don't remember any formal systems, flying, or maintenance training at any
YPA event. Mostly they were FAST clinics. But please correct me if I am
wrong.
Red Star was a bit different. In addition to FAST training there was a
top-notch mechanic there giving a seminar on Yak and CJ systems. There was
an emergency egress specialist talking about how to use a parachute to save
your life. There was even intensive instruction in CRUD and carrier
qualifications. IMHO this was a step up from the previous YPA-associated
fly-ins I have attended in the past. I guess things are looking up.
>There is a guy flying around (when his airplane is flyable) that has no
>training because he thought my training cost was too much. He said that he
>knew of CFI's charging $10 per hour in GA and was too cheap to pay more for
>CJ6A training.
That is his loss then, isn't it. Let's wish him good luck because he will
need it. And if his luck runs out, our insurance rates will probably
suffer because of it. It sucks but that is the way it is.
>I don't know about Doug and Mark but I can't afford to eat
>on $10 per hour. The same guy has a "mechanic" that he pays $10 per hour to
>maintain his airplane. Needless to say his airplane is nearly always broken
>down! I won't have any contact with this person and won't sell him parts.
>I believe that he is a hazard to the public and the CJ6A community.
That is your prerogative. OTOH, by working with him, answering questions,
and selling him good parts maybe he and his airplane will get better. But
then again, maybe not. Some people are a lost cause.
>I have seen several people save a few dollars purchasing a bargain basement
>cheap CJ and then spending tens of thousands of dollars to try to keep it
>flying. Several of these folks have had accidents (and yes several are on
>this list).
Sometimes you just get what you pay for. Some people, like me, go into it
with their eyes open. I got a bargain basement CJ but I knew I was going
to have to rebuild it. Some people get sold a bill of goods and end up
paying through the nose for it. Again, you can't fix that for them.
>Anyone lurking on this list has seen people assembling their airplanes based
>on the info that they got on this list and in many cases they definitely
>have gotten what they paid for. I certainly wouldn't fly in an airplane
>that was built on advice from an internet list.
Sometimes you go where you can get information. You said that you won't
help people who don't buy from you so where do they go? Heck, I bought
from Yakity Yaks, was trained by Yakity Yaks, but I am still
learning. That isn't a slam at Yakity Yaks, just the recognition that
training is a lifetime process. It never stops. There is a lot of
information out there and those of us who aren't tuned into The Oracle do
what we have to do, including exchanging information on this list. You
know, this can be either a positive or negative thing. It is up to you to
make of it what you want it to be.
>We also see people apparently learning to fly based on info that the have
>gotten from the list. Again, you get what you pay for.
Sometimes you get a lot more than what you pay for. Sometimes it is worth
exactly what you paid for it. And sometimes you pay for it and get very
little in return. Life is like that.
Frankly, I think the exchange of information here is pretty
good. Sometimes it is wrong but I can't remember when erroneous
information went uncorrected. I know I have learned things here and I am
glad that people saw fit to provide information and to correct me when I
was wrong. If the yak-list offends your sensibilities so much, why don't
you unsubscribe so you won't be offended all the time?
>The fact is that flying is expensive. If you don't have the money to do
>things right -- I suggest bowling!
I did, once. I dropped the ball on my foot. It hurt like hell. The rest
of the time the ball went in the gutter. Clearly I bought the ball from
the wrong company. I think I'll stick with flying. It is much safer.
>Mike (I have a cheap bowling ball for sale) McCoy
Does your ball come with professional training? I might be interested.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Power Settings |
At 12:19 PM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
>
>On that note, does anyone know of a GEM for 9 CYL engines. I used to use the
>JP EDM-800 in my Dakota and it was nice to see EGT's/CHT's for all the
>Cylinders, as well as fuel flow. If I were to install an EGT guage is there
>any one cylinder better suited to the probe? My Lycoming had upto a 200
>degree F difference between the hottest and coolest cylinder (the hottest
>cylinder not necessarily being the leanest).
JPI has a 9-cylinder graphic engine monitor. It is pricey but it is a very
good instrument.
>Why I've been doing is trying to adjust the mixture untill the engine ran
>rough and back it off, but I have the stupid tab installed which doesnt
>allow me to move the lever past the throttle, which really stinks becuase I
>like to run lean while I'm taxi'ing in order to not foul my plugs.
>
>Without referring me to my manual, is it a simple matter to remove the tab?
I don't know. I have never seen a CJ6A with the tab still installed.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | brian olofsson <brian060901(at)yahoo.com> |
Speaking about being cheap, on my part. Doug just told me about one or two folks
that have use auto "dounts" between the cylinders and exhaust system. My
plane is down for annual and I need two of these. The cost is not the problem
the time is. Dough is out and I haven't been able to reach Carl yet. Has any
one had any experience with these auto exhaust gaskets. Thanks Brian
At 07:14 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
>
>I agree with what Doug and Mark said about this subject, but I am not at all
>surprised that someone would be too cheap to spend $45 on a manual.
Which manual? There are quite a few of them and several of them are of
little use to the pilot. For people who want to just read about it and try
to understand the systems, a set of ten manuals at $45 apiece may be
prohibitive. The scans on the CD-ROM (now on the CJ6 web site) may be
sufficient for them. I know that I prefer paper manuals especially for
material that I look up all the time. But for occasional use I will just
ask the question or borrow someone else's manual. I am not likely to buy a
bound manual just to look at it once.
Think about it, neither Cessna nor Lycoming provide overhaul and
maintenance manuals with their aircraft.
>There
>are many in the CJ6A community that are too cheap to buy good airplanes,
>maintain their airplanes, get proper training, buy manuals, checklists, or
>spend money to go to the clinics.
No one with an ounce of sense shortchanges themselves WRT training and
maintenance but not everyone has an ounce of sense. Some people are
consciously incompetent and prefer to remain that way. There is no help
for them.
>Remember the guy on the Yak list that was too cheap to spend a few dollars
>to attend the YPA clinic?
OTOH, have the YPA clinics done an excellent job in providing good
information? Sure there is a lot of hangar flying and lots of good
information flying around in bull sessions if you want to pick it up but I
don't remember any formal systems, flying, or maintenance training at any
YPA event. Mostly they were FAST clinics. But please correct me if I am
wrong.
Red Star was a bit different. In addition to FAST training there was a
top-notch mechanic there giving a seminar on Yak and CJ systems. There was
an emergency egress specialist talking about how to use a parachute to save
your life. There was even intensive instruction in CRUD and carrier
qualifications. IMHO this was a step up from the previous YPA-associated
fly-ins I have attended in the past. I guess things are looking up.
>There is a guy flying around (when his airplane is flyable) that has no
>training because he thought my training cost was too much. He said that he
>knew of CFI's charging $10 per hour in GA and was too cheap to pay more for
>CJ6A training.
That is his loss then, isn't it. Let's wish him good luck because he will
need it. And if his luck runs out, our insurance rates will probably
suffer because of it. It sucks but that is the way it is.
>I don't know about Doug and Mark but I can't afford to eat
>on $10 per hour. The same guy has a "mechanic" that he pays $10 per hour to
>maintain his airplane. Needless to say his airplane is nearly always broken
>down! I won't have any contact with this person and won't sell him parts.
>I believe that he is a hazard to the public and the CJ6A community.
That is your prerogative. OTOH, by working with him, answering questions,
and selling him good parts maybe he and his airplane will get better. But
then again, maybe not. Some people are a lost cause.
>I have seen several people save a few dollars purchasing a bargain basement
>cheap CJ and then spending tens of thousands of dollars to try to keep it
>flying. Several of these folks have had accidents (and yes several are on
>this list).
Sometimes you just get what you pay for. Some people, like me, go into it
with their eyes open. I got a bargain basement CJ but I knew I was going
to have to rebuild it. Some people get sold a bill of goods and end up
paying through the nose for it. Again, you can't fix that for them.
>Anyone lurking on this list has seen people assembling their airplanes based
>on the info that they got on this list and in many cases they definitely
>have gotten what they paid for. I certainly wouldn't fly in an airplane
>that was built on advice from an internet list.
Sometimes you go where you can get information. You said that you won't
help people who don't buy from you so where do they go? Heck, I bought
from Yakity Yaks, was trained by Yakity Yaks, but I am still
learning. That isn't a slam at Yakity Yaks, just the recognition that
training is a lifetime process. It never stops. There is a lot of
information out there and those of us who aren't tuned into The Oracle do
what we have to do, including exchanging information on this list. You
know, this can be either a positive or negative thing. It is up to you to
make of it what you want it to be.
>We also see people apparently learning to fly based on info that the have
>gotten from the list. Again, you get what you pay for.
Sometimes you get a lot more than what you pay for. Sometimes it is worth
exactly what you paid for it. And sometimes you pay for it and get very
little in return. Life is like that.
Frankly, I think the exchange of information here is pretty
good. Sometimes it is wrong but I can't remember when erroneous
information went uncorrected. I know I have learned things here and I am
glad that people saw fit to provide information and to correct me when I
was wrong. If the yak-list offends your sensibilities so much, why don't
you unsubscribe so you won't be offended all the time?
>The fact is that flying is expensive. If you don't have the money to do
>things right -- I suggest bowling!
I did, once. I dropped the ball on my foot. It hurt like hell. The rest
of the time the ball went in the gutter. Clearly I bought the ball from
the wrong company. I think I'll stick with flying. It is much safer.
>Mike (I have a cheap bowling ball for sale) McCoy
Does your ball come with professional training? I might be interested.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Woes |
At 12:50 PM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
>
>Hi Y'all,
>
>The ol' Maineyak (YAK-52 N52MY) has landing gear that won't retract.
>Main Air Valve definitely ON, pressures normal, rear cockpit gear handle
>in neutral. Front cockpit gear lever moved up for retraction and
>nothing happens. Handle returned to down position and tried again with
>same results. Gear down lock lights remain lit - barber poles show no
>sign of movement. Rear cockpit gear handle cycled with no results
>either.
When you get it up on the jacks, try cracking the b-nuts on the shuttle
valve attached to the extension side of the gear actuators. This will
bleed off any pressure in the emergency side of the system and allow you to
retract the gear again if that is what is holding the gear down.
In a CJ6A you can use the flap system to bleed off the emergency air and
get the shuttle valves to move back into the normal position in flight but
I don't think the Yak-52 emergency air system actuates the flaps so you
can't use that mechanism.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | brian olofsson <brian060901(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Woes |
Doubt it's this easy. But I had a similar problem. I opened my emergency bottle
in flight, the back pressure locked the gear down and would not retract. The
mains would unlock, but not fully retract, the front remained down and locked.
I closed both tanks bleed off the pressure with the brake handle, multple
squeeses, and all worked as before. Doubt it's that easy but you can always hope.
Brian
Mark,
In looking at the schematic the only items that are common to all three
landing gear is main air valve; main air tank and the gear valve/lever
itself. If you started with the gear handle in the rear cockpit in the
neutral position and tried retracting the gear using the front cockpit
handle with nothing happening, my first suspicion would be a bad front
cockpit gear valve/lever assembly. But that's not going to always be the
case because the rear valve/lever is the main and it in other than the
neutral position overrides the front.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark and Alison Haskell"
Subject: Yak-List: Landing Gear Woes
>
> Hi Y'all,
>
> The ol' Maineyak (YAK-52 N52MY) has landing gear that won't retract.
> Main Air Valve definitely ON, pressures normal, rear cockpit gear handle
> in neutral. Front cockpit gear lever moved up for retraction and
> nothing happens. Handle returned to down position and tried again with
> same results. Gear down lock lights remain lit - barber poles show no
> sign of movement. Rear cockpit gear handle cycled with no results
> either. But, at least it is locked down instead of up. Any thoughts on
> where to start? I've arranged jacks and hangar space for Thursday.
> Also, I've heard people saying to use Pneumatic tool oil for lubrication
> in the system, and I've also heard a combination of Alcohol and
> Glycerine bantered about. I want to do what is right and best, not just
> cheap or easy. Please educate me on what the right stuff is - including
> where to get it and how to mix it if necessary. Thanks a lot!
>
> Mark Haskell
> N52MY
> markally(at)gwi.net
>
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Woes |
At 04:44 PM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
>
>
> Doubt it's this easy. But I had a similar problem. I opened my emergency
> bottle in flight, the back pressure locked the gear down and would not
> retract. The mains would unlock, but not fully retract, the front
> remained down and locked. I closed both tanks bleed off the pressure
> with the brake handle, multple squeeses, and all worked as before. Doubt
> it's that easy but you can always hope. Brian
That is what I do with the flap circuit. On a CJ6A if you have this
problem you can turn off the emergency and main air valves and then move
the flap lever part way toward the up position. This will allow the system
air to leak out through the flap valve including any air trapped in the
emergency circuit. Once everything has bled down (as much as possible
because the compressor is still running), turn the main air valve back on.
I had the gear stick down in a CJ6A I was test flying recently and that is
how I cleared the pressure from the emergency side of the system. The gear
then came up and operated normally. When we got down we double checked and
reserviced all the shuttle valves.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net> |
Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Woes |
Let's not make this more difficult than it is. All three gear are doing the
same thing. Not one, not two, but all three. What is common to all three?
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "brian olofsson" <brian060901(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Landing Gear Woes
>
>
> Doubt it's this easy. But I had a similar problem. I opened my emergency
bottle in flight, the back pressure locked the gear down and would not
retract. The mains would unlock, but not fully retract, the front remained
down and locked. I closed both tanks bleed off the pressure with the brake
handle, multple squeeses, and all worked as before. Doubt it's that easy
but you can always hope. Brian
> "A. Dennis Savarese" wrote: --> Yak-List message
posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>
> Mark,
> In looking at the schematic the only items that are common to all three
> landing gear is main air valve; main air tank and the gear valve/lever
> itself. If you started with the gear handle in the rear cockpit in the
> neutral position and tried retracting the gear using the front cockpit
> handle with nothing happening, my first suspicion would be a bad front
> cockpit gear valve/lever assembly. But that's not going to always be the
> case because the rear valve/lever is the main and it in other than the
> neutral position overrides the front.
>
> Dennis Savarese
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark and Alison Haskell"
> To:
> Subject: Yak-List: Landing Gear Woes
>
>
> >
> > Hi Y'all,
> >
> > The ol' Maineyak (YAK-52 N52MY) has landing gear that won't retract.
> > Main Air Valve definitely ON, pressures normal, rear cockpit gear handle
> > in neutral. Front cockpit gear lever moved up for retraction and
> > nothing happens. Handle returned to down position and tried again with
> > same results. Gear down lock lights remain lit - barber poles show no
> > sign of movement. Rear cockpit gear handle cycled with no results
> > either. But, at least it is locked down instead of up. Any thoughts on
> > where to start? I've arranged jacks and hangar space for Thursday.
> > Also, I've heard people saying to use Pneumatic tool oil for lubrication
> > in the system, and I've also heard a combination of Alcohol and
> > Glycerine bantered about. I want to do what is right and best, not just
> > cheap or easy. Please educate me on what the right stuff is - including
> > where to get it and how to mix it if necessary. Thanks a lot!
> >
> > Mark Haskell
> > N52MY
> > markally(at)gwi.net
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Subject: | Re: DG/Flux Gate |
Great!!! Wheres the amplifier box ?
Doug???
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: <KingCJ6(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: DG/Flux Gate
>
> Ours did something similar and it turned out to be an inexpensive (cheapo)
> vacuum tube in the amplifier box. I believe Doug Sapp still has these
tubes
> in stock, priced very reasonably.
>
> Dave
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Power Settings |
The oxygen sensor would be ideal, BUT they do not like lead. They would
work if all you ever used was auto fuel.
Frank Stelwagon
CJ-6A N23021
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings
>
> At 07:28 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
> >
> >Unfortunately, my CJ doesnt have an EGT guage and I dont think it ever
came
> >with one.
>
> So install one.
>
> >So what did the original pilots do to find peak?
>
> They didn't. The mixture control in the CJ6A was marked in meters and you
> just set the lever next to your altitude. The only problem with this
> mechanism is that it assumes that the carburetor and its linkages are all
> properly adjusted.
>
> >I was told to put
> >the mixture lever parallel to the throttle, but that sounds a bit crude.
>
> Not only is it crude, it is wrong. Stock CJ6As have an interconnect tab
> that automatically moves the mixture control to full rich when the
throttle
> is retarded. (The mixture lever is prevented from being more forward than
> the throttle lever.) The only problem is that it allows you to move the
> mixture control to full lean when the throttle is fully open. I dislike
> this mechanism because sometimes it makes sense to lean the engine during
> ground operation. All CJ6As I have seen have removed this tab.
>
> The bottom line is knowing what the mixture actually is. There are two
> ways I know of to do this easily: measure EGT or measure oxygen content in
> the exhaust. EGT is itself indirect because you have to adjust the
mixture
> to see the effect on EGT to identify the proper mixture. Peak EGT occurs
> at the point of proper stochastic mixture, i.e. the proper ratio of fuel
to
> oxygen that results in total combustion with neither excess fuel nor
excess
> O2 in the exhaust.
>
> The oxygen sensor is an even better way to determine mixture because it
> actually measures excess O2 (mixture too lean). This is how computers in
> automobile engines measure and adjust the mixture automatically.
>
> So without either an EGT or an O2 sensor/display, you really have no idea
> what the mixture is in your airplane. You have to trust that the carb and
> linkage are properly adjusted or you have to err on the rich side to
ensure
> not causing damage to the engine at high power settings.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Subject: | Re: Power Settings |
Well I want to install the JPI EGT guage with the fuel flow, I had it in my
Dakota and loved it. Can someone recommend a mechaninc in the Central
Florida area who is knowledgeable in CJ motors who can install it???????
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings
>
> The oxygen sensor would be ideal, BUT they do not like lead. They would
> work if all you ever used was auto fuel.
>
> Frank Stelwagon
> CJ-6A N23021
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings
>
>
> >
> > At 07:28 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
> > >
> > >Unfortunately, my CJ doesnt have an EGT guage and I dont think it ever
> came
> > >with one.
> >
> > So install one.
> >
> > >So what did the original pilots do to find peak?
> >
> > They didn't. The mixture control in the CJ6A was marked in meters and
you
> > just set the lever next to your altitude. The only problem with this
> > mechanism is that it assumes that the carburetor and its linkages are
all
> > properly adjusted.
> >
> > >I was told to put
> > >the mixture lever parallel to the throttle, but that sounds a bit
crude.
> >
> > Not only is it crude, it is wrong. Stock CJ6As have an interconnect tab
> > that automatically moves the mixture control to full rich when the
> throttle
> > is retarded. (The mixture lever is prevented from being more forward
than
> > the throttle lever.) The only problem is that it allows you to move the
> > mixture control to full lean when the throttle is fully open. I dislike
> > this mechanism because sometimes it makes sense to lean the engine
during
> > ground operation. All CJ6As I have seen have removed this tab.
> >
> > The bottom line is knowing what the mixture actually is. There are two
> > ways I know of to do this easily: measure EGT or measure oxygen content
in
> > the exhaust. EGT is itself indirect because you have to adjust the
> mixture
> > to see the effect on EGT to identify the proper mixture. Peak EGT
occurs
> > at the point of proper stochastic mixture, i.e. the proper ratio of fuel
> to
> > oxygen that results in total combustion with neither excess fuel nor
> excess
> > O2 in the exhaust.
> >
> > The oxygen sensor is an even better way to determine mixture because it
> > actually measures excess O2 (mixture too lean). This is how computers
in
> > automobile engines measure and adjust the mixture automatically.
> >
> > So without either an EGT or an O2 sensor/display, you really have no
idea
> > what the mixture is in your airplane. You have to trust that the carb
and
> > linkage are properly adjusted or you have to err on the rich side to
> ensure
> > not causing damage to the engine at high power settings.
> >
> >
> > Brian Lloyd
> > brian(at)lloyd.com
> > +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> > +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Power Settings |
In a message dated 5/13/02 8:58:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ernie(at)gscinc.com
writes:
> Well I want to install the JPI EGT guage with the fuel flow, I had it in my
> Dakota and loved it. Can someone recommend a mechaninc in the Central
> Florida area who is knowledgeable in CJ motors who can install it???????
>
> Ernie
>
Ernie,
There is a guy (Russian I think) just a stones throw to your west, whose
worked on HS6A engines (Mike Filucci can tell you his name). Also one of
George Baker's boys over at New Smyna Beach has work on both HS6A and M14Ps.
Sam Sax down in MIA put one on his M14P. These guys can clue you in on the
details.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: Power Settings |
Lead contamination only slows the response time so it will work with 100LL.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings
The oxygen sensor would be ideal, BUT they do not like lead. They would
work if all you ever used was auto fuel.
Frank Stelwagon
CJ-6A N23021
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings
>
> At 07:28 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
> >
> >Unfortunately, my CJ doesnt have an EGT guage and I dont think it ever
came
> >with one.
>
> So install one.
>
> >So what did the original pilots do to find peak?
>
> They didn't. The mixture control in the CJ6A was marked in meters and you
> just set the lever next to your altitude. The only problem with this
> mechanism is that it assumes that the carburetor and its linkages are all
> properly adjusted.
>
> >I was told to put
> >the mixture lever parallel to the throttle, but that sounds a bit crude.
>
> Not only is it crude, it is wrong. Stock CJ6As have an interconnect tab
> that automatically moves the mixture control to full rich when the
throttle
> is retarded. (The mixture lever is prevented from being more forward than
> the throttle lever.) The only problem is that it allows you to move the
> mixture control to full lean when the throttle is fully open. I dislike
> this mechanism because sometimes it makes sense to lean the engine during
> ground operation. All CJ6As I have seen have removed this tab.
>
> The bottom line is knowing what the mixture actually is. There are two
> ways I know of to do this easily: measure EGT or measure oxygen content in
> the exhaust. EGT is itself indirect because you have to adjust the
mixture
> to see the effect on EGT to identify the proper mixture. Peak EGT occurs
> at the point of proper stochastic mixture, i.e. the proper ratio of fuel
to
> oxygen that results in total combustion with neither excess fuel nor
excess
> O2 in the exhaust.
>
> The oxygen sensor is an even better way to determine mixture because it
> actually measures excess O2 (mixture too lean). This is how computers in
> automobile engines measure and adjust the mixture automatically.
>
> So without either an EGT or an O2 sensor/display, you really have no idea
> what the mixture is in your airplane. You have to trust that the carb and
> linkage are properly adjusted or you have to err on the rich side to
ensure
> not causing damage to the engine at high power settings.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com> |
Am posting this again as it didn't seem to take the first time.
Always yakin,
Doug Sapp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com>
Subject: Re: CD
> Listers and lurkers,
> It would seem that I have opened a ugly can of worms, and now I find
myself
> poised and ready to eat some Nike. I have been asked (and rightly so) to
> set the record straight.
>
> First of all Ray Stallings and Jim Bernier did call me before they started
> the CD project, and yes I did tell them that I did not have a problem with
> it. I will also say it again, both guys are great guys and neither would
> knowingly hurt anyone. They also informed me this morning that the total
> info came from Marcus Bates Sr. with his permission to duplicate it.
>
> My comments were borne of my recent discovery that someone was knocking
off
> my Airframe Accessory Overhaul Manual (which I offered at my cost). And
the
> topper was a call I received from a guy (from Texas) asking if I could let
> him borrow my free CD (I never received one) so he could make himself a
set
> of manuals!! Knowing that he was too cheap to ever actually invest in a
> hard copy I read him the riot act and sent him to Ray. But the more I
> thought about the more it pissed me off. I must admit that after it all
> boiled down Ray's free CD has very little to do with my postings and I
> apologize to both Ray and Jim for any problems my ranting may have caused
> them. Theirs was unfortunately the very last little "straw that broke the
> camels back".
>
> My opinions of our problems of copying manuals and duplicating mods has
been
> stated many times before so I wont bore you with them again but will close
> with one last thought. And that is--I don't have a freeking clue as to
how
> to solve the problem. Maybe someone out there does, if so please drop me
a
> line.
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ray P. Stallings" <JetJockey(at)alumni.utexas.net>
> To: "Doug Sapp"
> Cc: "Jim Bernier"
> Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 9:39 PM
> Subject: CD
>
>
> > Dear Doug,
> >
> > After reading some of the postings on the Yak List today, I am very
> confused
> > about what has transpired. Let's set the record straight. First of
all,
> > none of the parts manuals that Jim Bernier and I have scanned to CD
> > originated from you. Neither did any of the translations. They were
> > obtained from Marcus Bates, Sr. He acquired them many years ago and had
> > them translated at his cost. Jim checked with Mr. Bates and his wife
> before
> > we started this project and got the OK to proceed. The other documents
> on
> > the CD come from various other sources or were done by me. Now implore
> you
> > to please set the record straight on the Yak List that Jim or I did not
> > steal any of your work or your investment.
> >
> > Doug, the thing that really hurts me about all of this is that Jim and I
> > both personally spoke with you (on the telephone) about doing this
before
> we
> > started. We didn't do this because we had to, we did it as a courtesy.
> We
> > didn't want you to feel we were stepping on your turf. You did not
> express
> > any reservations to either myself or Jim. Additionally, you personally
> told
> > me that you didn't have any problem with us including a scan of the
PT-6
> > Overhaul Manual on the CD. My personal feeling is that you will be the
> > biggest beneficiary of the CD because it will let people see how much
> > information really is available in the manuals. As several others have
> > stated, computers are a bitch to use. I need to be able to look at a
> whole
> > page and to be able to go back and forth without using a keyboard. I
> think
> > most people feel the same way. The CD is just a quick way to find what
> you
> > need without having to pull out numerous volumes. I have not doubts
that
> > you will still sell manuals and you will also have the benefit of having
> > people be able to call you with exact part numbers instead of just
saying,
> > "I need the gasket for the widget on the square part of the bottom of
the
> > engine....."
> >
> > As I think Jim and I both told you when we spoke, the whole idea in
doing
> > this was to try to obtain the best possible set of copies to provide to
> the
> > CJ community in order to foster a better knowledge of the aircraft and
to
> > promote safety. Everyone that I know has different manuals of differing
> > quality. If we can get the best of the best and combine them into one
> > "Master Database" everyone associated with these aircraft will benefit
in
> > the long run.
> >
> > As far as Brian Lloyd goes; he has not been forthcoming about how and
why
> he
> > got the CD. Jim Bernier sent him a copy with the understanding he was
> going
> > to reproduce it and distribute it FREE OF CHARGE at the recent Red Star
> > event. Apparently Brian saw this as an opportunity to turn a few bucks.
> > According to his math it costs about $20 to produce a CD. My experience
> has
> > been that it costs about $0.75 (postage included). Maybe I'm a naive
> > country boy, but trying to make a buck at the expense of someone's
safety
> or
> > aircraft systems knowledge is simply a concept I don't subscribe to.
> >
> > Doug, we have personally never met but I feel like I know you pretty
well
> > from our telephone and email exchanges. I hope you understand my deep
> > disappointment from what I have read. As I said before, Jim and I have
> > absolutely no intention of hurting your business. That would be self
> > defeating. If Jim and I wanted to make a couple fast bucks, we would be
> > hawking the CDs, not Mr. Lloyd. Please take the time to read the
> attached
> > file which is included on each CD to see what our real intent was and
> still
> > is.
> >
> > If you still feel what we are doing is causing great harm to you
> personally,
> > please let me know and we will stop distributing the CD and I will
destroy
> > the master disk. You have my word on it.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Ray
> >
> > Ray P. Stallings
> > 9701 Airpark Drive
> > Granbury, TX 76049-4401
> > ********************************
> > Phone: 817-579-1317
> > Fax: 413-425-7783
> > Cell: 817-690-7315
> > Email: JetJockey(at)alumni.utexas.net
> > *********************************
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Samuel Sax" <cd001633(at)mindspring.com> |
Ernie,
I have the JPI EGT/CHT/FF in my CJ. It works great. When you order the
unit, mention that it's for a CJ/Yak engine as the CHT under-the-spark-plug
ring (sensor) assembly (pig tail) needs to be modified slightly for better
spark plug clearance.
You may want to follow up on Jim Goolsby's pointers for a qualified mechanic
in your area.
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernie
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings
Well I want to install the JPI EGT guage with the fuel flow, I had it in my
Dakota and loved it. Can someone recommend a mechaninc in the Central
Florida area who is knowledgeable in CJ motors who can install it???????
Ernie
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: DG/Flux Gate |
At 05:34 PM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
>
>Great!!! Wheres the amplifier box ?
It is the small, roughly square grey box on the avionics tray just behind
the front seat. It is shock mounted.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Power Settings |
At 05:42 PM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
>
>The oxygen sensor would be ideal, BUT they do not like lead. They would
>work if all you ever used was auto fuel.
They will work for a time with leaded fuel. Here is the link for an O2
sensor product for aircraft. http://www.dica.ca/fuelmix.htm
They claim a life of 200 hours for the O2 sensor when running 100LL and
1000 hours when running unleaded. And even at 200 hours, it is an
automotive sensor which you can easily acquire from your local auto parts
place for something like $20. Change it at your annual condition inspection.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
At 02:59 PM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
Interesting stuff Doug. This part was quite interesting. For some reason
I don't like getting slammed like this.
> > > As far as Brian Lloyd goes; he has not been forthcoming about how and
> why he
> > > got the CD.
Gee, that sounds like you are accusing me of some sort of duplicity. The
truth is, I lost Jim's message and didn't remember who had sent the CD to
me. Still, I tried to make the CD available.
> > > Jim Bernier sent him a copy with the understanding he was going
> > > to reproduce it and distribute it FREE OF CHARGE at the recent Red Star
> > > event. Apparently Brian saw this as an opportunity to turn a few bucks.
Oh man, I love this. At $20 a pop I doubt I would ever make any money at
this. I can certainly think of better ways to spend my time to "turn a few
bucks."
But I have produced and distributed software before. I have to drive down,
buy the blank CDs, buy the mailers, dupe the CDs, test the CDs to make sure
they read on another drive, stuff them, take them to the post office, pay
postage, and mail them. I don't see how I can cover my costs at $.75 a copy.
I did go down and buy blank CDs for this. I paid $25 for a pack of 50
Memorex blank CDs. That is $.50/ea. Mailers are at least
$.50/ea. Postage is going to be at least $.50. OK, that is $1.50. I did
have to drive my car down, I do have to drive to the post office, and I
have to babysit the computer instead of doing something else, and I have to
verify each CD on a separate computer, not to mention the wear and tear on
my CD burner and making the computer unavailable for other tasks. That
adds up to time and money. Maybe doing one or two is a favor but if 50
people ask for a copy of the disk it becomes real work. I think that I am
entitled to some compensation for time, effort, and material.
> > > According to his math it costs about $20 to produce a CD. My
> experience has
> > > been that it costs about $0.75 (postage included).
As you can see above, my materials cost is above that. But it isn't the
materials that cost, it is the time. I picked that $20 price out of the air.
> > > Maybe I'm a naive
> > > country boy, but trying to make a buck at the expense of someone's
> safety or
> > > aircraft systems knowledge is simply a concept I don't subscribe to.
Jeez, louise. By your reckoning Doug Sapp should give away parts at cost,
Mike McCoy shouldn't charge for instruction, and Bill Blackwell should just
fix people's airplanes for free because, in your words, "trying to make a
buck at the expense of someone's safety or aircraft systems knowledge is
simply a concept I don't subscribe to."
And if you think I am in this for the money, let me point out what I have
already done:
1. I got the Yak-list set up with Matt Dralle;
2. I set up the web site for CJ6.org;
3. I provide the web site for the Yak Pilots Association on my server
free-of-charge;
4. I am providing a home for the contents of the disk for free on my web
server;
5. I did the initial leg-work to get AOPA to do their spread on formation
flying and then hooked them up with Mike Filucci when it didn't work out
for me to do the instruction on the west coast.
So far I haven't gotten paid for any of this. Yeah, but I guess I am still
an evil money-grubbing capitalist whore.
And all I wanted to do was to cover my costs so that I don't lose money.
Hey, for what it is worth, let's do it the old fashioned way. Let people
vote with their wallets. It is their money and if they think that $20 is
excessive they won't ask me to send them a copy of the CD.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com> |
Subject: | Re: DG/Flux Gate |
Ernie,
Find someone with a CJ with an operable system, swap parts until yours
works, tell me what you need. Sorry, I know that's not very easy, but that
the most efficient way to solve your problem. Start with the amp box it has
several old vacuum type radio tubes in it. I don't have the individual
tubes but I have the complete new box.
Good hunting.
Always yakin,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Yak-List: DG/Flux Gate
>
> My DG has now decided to act funny, when I push the button it just goes
> round and round but doesnt stop at the correct heading like it used to.
> I can stop it at the right heading and it will keep a relative heading.
> I guess the flux gate isnt working, has anyone else experienced this and
> is there a simple fix for it or am I S.O.L
>
> Ernie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mark Schrick <schrick(at)pacbell.net> |
Subject: | Cheapo's ????? Every group has them (EVERY GROUP) |
Hey Mike,
Why don't write what you REALLY FEEL !!!!
As in any club, group, or ownership you will have these type of people
but they are not the majority or some have the abilities to assemble,
ask questions and SAFLY assemble, certify and maintain their own
aircraft. Everyone has there own opinion and has the right to choose
what is best for them under the guidiness of the FAA and FAR's. Not
every CJ that has been brought into this country has had a perfect
record. Just because someone pays $110K for an aircraft verus a $50K
one does that really mean that plane is better? Sound like an opinion
more than fact based survey.
Flying is expensive but some people have more time than money and we
all have to determine which vain to follow and when it is SMART and
legal to obtain professional help with our birds.
Training is a MUST and I hope everyone feels that way. Brian Llyod and
the group of instructors at REDSTAR Gathering stated it best:
"Check your egos at the door so we can all be SAFE and LEARN something
this weekend !!!" Heavy on the SAFE PART.
I support training but I get all the training I can get but some need
to learn though other means. As long as people are getting trained in
some way. If not it becomes a liablity for all of us and the insurance
companies will raise rates. Not good. Look at Glasairs, RV's, and
Lancairs, rates have increased 3 times in two years and dropped many
aircraft from insuring them.
My two cents worth (too cheap to put in a dollar)
Regards,
Mark Schrick
(Not the Mark that Mike was referring too I hope)
YAK 52 400HP
San Jose, CA
FAST training, Acro trained, hired Vladamir to do annuals, No time to
do my own work so write checks now !!!! And still Married.
>
>I agree with what Doug and Mark said about this subject, but I am not at all
>surprised that someone would be too cheap to spend $45 on a manual. There
>are many in the CJ6A community that are too cheap to buy good airplanes,
>maintain their airplanes, get proper training, buy manuals, checklists, or
>spend money to go to the clinics.
>
>Remember the guy on the Yak list that was too cheap to spend a few dollars
>to attend the YPA clinic?
>
>There is a guy flying around (when his airplane is flyable) that has no
>training because he thought my training cost was too much. He said that he
>knew of CFI's charging $10 per hour in GA and was too cheap to pay more for
>CJ6A training. I don't know about Doug and Mark but I can't afford to eat
>on $10 per hour. The same guy has a "mechanic" that he pays $10 per hour to
>maintain his airplane. Needless to say his airplane is nearly always broken
>down! I won't have any contact with this person and won't sell him parts.
>I believe that he is a hazard to the public and the CJ6A community.
>
>I have seen several people save a few dollars purchasing a bargain basement
>cheap CJ and then spending tens of thousands of dollars to try to keep it
>flying. Several of these folks have had accidents (and yes several are on
>this list).
>
>Anyone lurking on this list has seen people assembling their airplanes based
>on the info that they got on this list and in many cases they definitely
>have gotten what they paid for. I certainly wouldn't fly in an airplane
>that was built on advice from an internet list.
>
>We also see people apparently learning to fly based on info that the have
>gotten from the list. Again, you get what you pay for.
>
>The fact is that flying is expensive. If you don't have the money to do
>things right -- I suggest bowling!
>
>Mike (I have a cheap bowling ball for sale) McCoy
>
>
************************************************************
Mark Schrick
966 Wallace Drive
San Jose, CA 95120-1848
(408) 323-5150 Phone/Fax (408) 391-6664 (Cell)
schrick(at)pacbell.net
************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Yak list <yaklist(at)comcast.net> |
So guys, when is the first CJ6 live fire excercise going to be. Now for that
all the 52 pilots would certainly buy expensive tickets.....
Gus Fraser
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fw: CD
>
> At 02:59 PM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
>
> Interesting stuff Doug. This part was quite interesting. For some reason
> I don't like getting slammed like this.
>
> > > > As far as Brian Lloyd goes; he has not been forthcoming about how
and
> > why he
> > > > got the CD.
>
> Gee, that sounds like you are accusing me of some sort of duplicity. The
> truth is, I lost Jim's message and didn't remember who had sent the CD to
> me. Still, I tried to make the CD available.
>
> > > > Jim Bernier sent him a copy with the understanding he was going
> > > > to reproduce it and distribute it FREE OF CHARGE at the recent Red
Star
> > > > event. Apparently Brian saw this as an opportunity to turn a few
bucks.
>
> Oh man, I love this. At $20 a pop I doubt I would ever make any money at
> this. I can certainly think of better ways to spend my time to "turn a
few
> bucks."
>
> But I have produced and distributed software before. I have to drive
down,
> buy the blank CDs, buy the mailers, dupe the CDs, test the CDs to make
sure
> they read on another drive, stuff them, take them to the post office, pay
> postage, and mail them. I don't see how I can cover my costs at $.75 a
copy.
>
> I did go down and buy blank CDs for this. I paid $25 for a pack of 50
> Memorex blank CDs. That is $.50/ea. Mailers are at least
> $.50/ea. Postage is going to be at least $.50. OK, that is $1.50. I did
> have to drive my car down, I do have to drive to the post office, and I
> have to babysit the computer instead of doing something else, and I have
to
> verify each CD on a separate computer, not to mention the wear and tear on
> my CD burner and making the computer unavailable for other tasks. That
> adds up to time and money. Maybe doing one or two is a favor but if 50
> people ask for a copy of the disk it becomes real work. I think that I am
> entitled to some compensation for time, effort, and material.
>
> > > > According to his math it costs about $20 to produce a CD. My
> > experience has
> > > > been that it costs about $0.75 (postage included).
>
> As you can see above, my materials cost is above that. But it isn't the
> materials that cost, it is the time. I picked that $20 price out of the
air.
>
> > > > Maybe I'm a naive
> > > > country boy, but trying to make a buck at the expense of someone's
> > safety or
> > > > aircraft systems knowledge is simply a concept I don't subscribe to.
>
> Jeez, louise. By your reckoning Doug Sapp should give away parts at cost,
> Mike McCoy shouldn't charge for instruction, and Bill Blackwell should
just
> fix people's airplanes for free because, in your words, "trying to make a
> buck at the expense of someone's safety or aircraft systems knowledge is
> simply a concept I don't subscribe to."
>
> And if you think I am in this for the money, let me point out what I have
> already done:
>
> 1. I got the Yak-list set up with Matt Dralle;
>
> 2. I set up the web site for CJ6.org;
>
> 3. I provide the web site for the Yak Pilots Association on my server
> free-of-charge;
>
> 4. I am providing a home for the contents of the disk for free on my web
> server;
>
> 5. I did the initial leg-work to get AOPA to do their spread on formation
> flying and then hooked them up with Mike Filucci when it didn't work out
> for me to do the instruction on the west coast.
>
> So far I haven't gotten paid for any of this. Yeah, but I guess I am
still
> an evil money-grubbing capitalist whore.
>
> And all I wanted to do was to cover my costs so that I don't lose
money.
>
> Hey, for what it is worth, let's do it the old fashioned way. Let people
> vote with their wallets. It is their money and if they think that $20 is
> excessive they won't ask me to send them a copy of the CD.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike McCoy" <mike(at)aircraftsales.com> |
Brian,
Please accept my order for 10 of the maintenance CD's at $1.00 each. If Ray
is correct and your cost is $.75 each, then you'll have a 25% profit, which
should be significant. I'm sure that this will more than cover your missed
day of work. Could you please ship them in individual mailers?
Thanks,
Mike (helping Brian get rich) McCoy
P.S. Even if you aren't making big bucks by selling me these CD's, please
do it anyway. You wouldn't want to jeopardize my safety just because you're
losing money.
________________________________________________________________________________
Jeez, I love this List! I'll never make fun of my wife's soap operas
again....well maybe not as much.
Craig "Listen'n & Lurk'n" Payne
yak-list(at)matronics.com wrote:
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Re: Yak-List: Fw: CD
Interesting stuff Doug. This part was quite interesting. For some reason
I don't like getting slammed like this.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Subject: | Re: Power Settings |
Thanks Jim,
I'll look into it. Also I'm planning to join YPA as soon as I fill in the
app. Are there YPA clinics that are going to be held anytime soon. I just
started my acro training with my instructor here at Leeward, but I'd like to
start some formation stuff soon with you guy's.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings
>
> In a message dated 5/13/02 8:58:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ernie(at)gscinc.com
> writes:
>
>
> > Well I want to install the JPI EGT guage with the fuel flow, I had it in
my
> > Dakota and loved it. Can someone recommend a mechaninc in the Central
> > Florida area who is knowledgeable in CJ motors who can install it???????
> >
> > Ernie
> >
>
> Ernie,
> There is a guy (Russian I think) just a stones throw to your west, whose
> worked on HS6A engines (Mike Filucci can tell you his name). Also one of
> George Baker's boys over at New Smyna Beach has work on both HS6A and
M14Ps.
> Sam Sax down in MIA put one on his M14P. These guys can clue you in on
the
> details.
> Jim Goolsby
> cjpilot710(at)aol.com
> 386-467-3313 voice
> 386-467-3193 fax
> 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
> a little safety, deserve neither liberty
nor
> safety"
> Benjamin Franklin 1759
> "There is no "innocence" in war. All
> collateral damage
> is acceptable."
> unk.
> "With my shield, or on it"
> Trojan Warriors BC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com> |
Subject: | Re: Power Settings |
Call Vinny Tirado @ 305-233-5197 or 305-252-4057. He is at the Weeks Air
Museum. I know he has worked on Lloyd Epperly's CJ and others also. He
seems to be knowledgable.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings
>
> Well I want to install the JPI EGT guage with the fuel flow, I had it in
my
> Dakota and loved it. Can someone recommend a mechaninc in the Central
> Florida area who is knowledgeable in CJ motors who can install it???????
>
> Ernie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings
>
>
>
> >
> > The oxygen sensor would be ideal, BUT they do not like lead. They would
> > work if all you ever used was auto fuel.
> >
> > Frank Stelwagon
> > CJ-6A N23021
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings
> >
> >
> > >
> > > At 07:28 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
> > > >
> > > >Unfortunately, my CJ doesnt have an EGT guage and I dont think it
ever
> > came
> > > >with one.
> > >
> > > So install one.
> > >
> > > >So what did the original pilots do to find peak?
> > >
> > > They didn't. The mixture control in the CJ6A was marked in meters and
> you
> > > just set the lever next to your altitude. The only problem with this
> > > mechanism is that it assumes that the carburetor and its linkages are
> all
> > > properly adjusted.
> > >
> > > >I was told to put
> > > >the mixture lever parallel to the throttle, but that sounds a bit
> crude.
> > >
> > > Not only is it crude, it is wrong. Stock CJ6As have an interconnect
tab
> > > that automatically moves the mixture control to full rich when the
> > throttle
> > > is retarded. (The mixture lever is prevented from being more forward
> than
> > > the throttle lever.) The only problem is that it allows you to move
the
> > > mixture control to full lean when the throttle is fully open. I
dislike
> > > this mechanism because sometimes it makes sense to lean the engine
> during
> > > ground operation. All CJ6As I have seen have removed this tab.
> > >
> > > The bottom line is knowing what the mixture actually is. There are
two
> > > ways I know of to do this easily: measure EGT or measure oxygen
content
> in
> > > the exhaust. EGT is itself indirect because you have to adjust the
> > mixture
> > > to see the effect on EGT to identify the proper mixture. Peak EGT
> occurs
> > > at the point of proper stochastic mixture, i.e. the proper ratio of
fuel
> > to
> > > oxygen that results in total combustion with neither excess fuel nor
> > excess
> > > O2 in the exhaust.
> > >
> > > The oxygen sensor is an even better way to determine mixture because
it
> > > actually measures excess O2 (mixture too lean). This is how computers
> in
> > > automobile engines measure and adjust the mixture automatically.
> > >
> > > So without either an EGT or an O2 sensor/display, you really have no
> idea
> > > what the mixture is in your airplane. You have to trust that the carb
> and
> > > linkage are properly adjusted or you have to err on the rich side to
> > ensure
> > > not causing damage to the engine at high power settings.
> > >
> > >
> > > Brian Lloyd
> > > brian(at)lloyd.com
> > > +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> > > +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: DG/Flux Gate |
One other item to check is in the small flat box on the tray behind the
pilots seat. The selenium rectifier inside the box may be failing, which is
not uncommon as they die of old age. They can be replaced with a silicon
bridge with no trouble. Just make sure the polarity is correct.
Incidentally I got the first set of schematics that I could read from Doug.
He doesn't have everything but what he has is good.
Frank Stelwagon
CJ-6A N23021
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: DG/Flux Gate
>
> Ernie,
> Find someone with a CJ with an operable system, swap parts until yours
> works, tell me what you need. Sorry, I know that's not very easy, but
that
> the most efficient way to solve your problem. Start with the amp box it
has
> several old vacuum type radio tubes in it. I don't have the individual
> tubes but I have the complete new box.
>
> Good hunting.
>
> Always yakin,
> Doug
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
> To:
> Subject: Yak-List: DG/Flux Gate
>
>
> >
> > My DG has now decided to act funny, when I push the button it just goes
> > round and round but doesnt stop at the correct heading like it used to.
> > I can stop it at the right heading and it will keep a relative heading.
> > I guess the flux gate isnt working, has anyone else experienced this and
> > is there a simple fix for it or am I S.O.L
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Barry W. Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
>> Wait a minute? First you suggest the reason it's engineered the way it
>> is keeps things simplified, then I use your suggestion in a parallel
>> setting and you disagree? I'm surprised, you usually think things
>> through better than this, but since you disagreed with me, I'll argue
>> my
>> point. :)
>
> I did think it out. I just went a little fast for you I guess.
Hold.....on..........could.........you.......please.......slow.......things.
......down............for..........uh............me.........?
I'm a v-ver very, good driver.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Subject: | Re: DG/Flux Gate |
Thanks, I ordered some from him. I also found the power amp box and reseated
the tubes and it now seems to work. One tube looks like a 6x6c, which sounds
like an english designation, the other tube however is a 6 (then an x with a
vertical line through it) 7 something. Does anyone have the exact
replacement numbers for the tubes.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: DG/Flux Gate
>
> One other item to check is in the small flat box on the tray behind the
> pilots seat. The selenium rectifier inside the box may be failing, which
is
> not uncommon as they die of old age. They can be replaced with a silicon
> bridge with no trouble. Just make sure the polarity is correct.
> Incidentally I got the first set of schematics that I could read from
Doug.
> He doesn't have everything but what he has is good.
>
> Frank Stelwagon
> CJ-6A N23021
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: DG/Flux Gate
>
>
> >
> > Ernie,
> > Find someone with a CJ with an operable system, swap parts until yours
> > works, tell me what you need. Sorry, I know that's not very easy, but
> that
> > the most efficient way to solve your problem. Start with the amp box it
> has
> > several old vacuum type radio tubes in it. I don't have the individual
> > tubes but I have the complete new box.
> >
> > Good hunting.
> >
> > Always yakin,
> > Doug
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Yak-List: DG/Flux Gate
> >
> >
> > >
> > > My DG has now decided to act funny, when I push the button it just
goes
> > > round and round but doesnt stop at the correct heading like it used
to.
> > > I can stop it at the right heading and it will keep a relative
heading.
> > > I guess the flux gate isnt working, has anyone else experienced this
and
> > > is there a simple fix for it or am I S.O.L
> > >
> > > Ernie
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net> |
Subject: | Re: Power Settings |
Howyadoin' Vinny? I tink dissa guy wants-a you to take-a care of tings, ya
know.
"Tony" (fagedaboutit) Savarese
my Italian heritage come out at the darndest times
ANTHONY Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings
>
> Call Vinny Tirado @ 305-233-5197 or 305-252-4057. He is at the Weeks Air
> Museum. I know he has worked on Lloyd Epperly's CJ and others also. He
> seems to be knowledgable.
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings
>
>
> >
> > Well I want to install the JPI EGT guage with the fuel flow, I had it in
> my
> > Dakota and loved it. Can someone recommend a mechaninc in the Central
> > Florida area who is knowledgeable in CJ motors who can install it???????
> >
> > Ernie
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The oxygen sensor would be ideal, BUT they do not like lead. They
would
> > > work if all you ever used was auto fuel.
> > >
> > > Frank Stelwagon
> > > CJ-6A N23021
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > At 07:28 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >Unfortunately, my CJ doesnt have an EGT guage and I dont think it
> ever
> > > came
> > > > >with one.
> > > >
> > > > So install one.
> > > >
> > > > >So what did the original pilots do to find peak?
> > > >
> > > > They didn't. The mixture control in the CJ6A was marked in meters
and
> > you
> > > > just set the lever next to your altitude. The only problem with
this
> > > > mechanism is that it assumes that the carburetor and its linkages
are
> > all
> > > > properly adjusted.
> > > >
> > > > >I was told to put
> > > > >the mixture lever parallel to the throttle, but that sounds a bit
> > crude.
> > > >
> > > > Not only is it crude, it is wrong. Stock CJ6As have an interconnect
> tab
> > > > that automatically moves the mixture control to full rich when the
> > > throttle
> > > > is retarded. (The mixture lever is prevented from being more
forward
> > than
> > > > the throttle lever.) The only problem is that it allows you to move
> the
> > > > mixture control to full lean when the throttle is fully open. I
> dislike
> > > > this mechanism because sometimes it makes sense to lean the engine
> > during
> > > > ground operation. All CJ6As I have seen have removed this tab.
> > > >
> > > > The bottom line is knowing what the mixture actually is. There are
> two
> > > > ways I know of to do this easily: measure EGT or measure oxygen
> content
> > in
> > > > the exhaust. EGT is itself indirect because you have to adjust the
> > > mixture
> > > > to see the effect on EGT to identify the proper mixture. Peak EGT
> > occurs
> > > > at the point of proper stochastic mixture, i.e. the proper ratio of
> fuel
> > > to
> > > > oxygen that results in total combustion with neither excess fuel nor
> > > excess
> > > > O2 in the exhaust.
> > > >
> > > > The oxygen sensor is an even better way to determine mixture because
> it
> > > > actually measures excess O2 (mixture too lean). This is how
computers
> > in
> > > > automobile engines measure and adjust the mixture automatically.
> > > >
> > > > So without either an EGT or an O2 sensor/display, you really have no
> > idea
> > > > what the mixture is in your airplane. You have to trust that the
carb
> > and
> > > > linkage are properly adjusted or you have to err on the rich side to
> > > ensure
> > > > not causing damage to the engine at high power settings.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Brian Lloyd
> > > > brian(at)lloyd.com
> > > > +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> > > > +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Power Settings |
In a message dated 5/14/02 10:49:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ernie(at)gscinc.com writes:
> I'll look into it. Also I'm planning to join YPA as soon as I fill in the
> app. Are there YPA clinics that are going to be held anytime soon. I just
> started my acro training with my instructor here at Leeward, but I'd like to
> start some formation stuff soon with you guy's.
>
>
The next YPA event is June 5 - 9 in OLU (Columbus, Nebraska). It is our
anunal meeting/ formation clinic/ acro etc. etc. We picked this place
because
1. Its very close to the geographic center of the southern 48 states.
2. One of our members Keith Harbor, is the FBO on the field and invited us.
And 3. It has all the facilities we require.
After that comes MTW/OSH starting July 20th. We will be participating in the
WB part of the show. We will have a new Yak 52TW for close inspection and
systems talks and hopefully an acro box over the field like last year.
This May 25-26 there is small gathering down at Tamiami (south Miami) with
some YPA members cerebrating the opening of Wings Over Miami Museum (Week's
old place). It not an "official" event but there will be a number of CJs and
Yaks there.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Power Settings |
In a message dated 5/14/02 10:55:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rvfltd(at)televar.com writes:
>
> Call Vinny Tirado @ 305-233-5197 or 305-252-4057. He is at the Weeks Air
> Museum. I know he has worked on Lloyd Epperly's CJ and others also. He
> seems to be knowledgable.
Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
Weeks Air Museum is no more although Vinny is still there. It now the Wings
Over Miami Museum. Try the same numbers.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Samuel Sax" <cd001633(at)mindspring.com> |
Boys & Gals,
The Wings Over Miami Museum (Formerly Weeks Air Museum) is holding its first
Warbird fly-in event on Memorial Day weekend (May 25-26th) - you all are
invited! Fuel is provided as well as hotel rooms (while they last).
www.wingsovermiami.com - we are having our Memorial Day weekend fly-in on
the 25th-26th and you are invited, fuel and hotel provided. Let me know if
you can make it.
Visit the museum on line at www.wingsovermiami.com
Location: Kendall Tamiami Executive Airport (TMB), Miami, FL.
Please let me know if you are coming - hope to see you there!
Sam Sax
N92863 "Sax Machine"
305.215.5599
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Ivey <jim(at)jimivey.com> |
Subject: | Re: Power Settings |
Ernie:
I don't' think JPI has come out with the 9-cylinder version of the
EDM-800. I think it's only available in the EDM-700 9c model. However,
I think there is a fuel flow/totalizer option on the 700. Be sure to
get a high-enough flow transducer for the CJ.
The only real difference between the 800 and 700 series is the 800
automatically has fuel flow and also has percentage horsepower read-out.
I have an 800 in my Comanche and like it.
See link:
http://www.jpinstruments.com/
then click on, "home", then the EDM 700 9c in the left margin.
Jim Ivey
P.S. I don't know why they show a P-40 Warhawk in the background for a
9-cylinder analyzer.
Ernie wrote:
>
>Well I want to install the JPI EGT guage with the fuel flow, I had it in my
>Dakota and loved it. Can someone recommend a mechaninc in the Central
>Florida area who is knowledgeable in CJ motors who can install it???????
>
>Ernie
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings
>
>
>>
>
>
>>The oxygen sensor would be ideal, BUT they do not like lead. They would
>>work if all you ever used was auto fuel.
>>
>>Frank Stelwagon
>>CJ-6A N23021
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power Settings
>>
>>
>>>
>>>At 07:28 AM 5/13/2002, you wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Unfortunately, my CJ doesnt have an EGT guage and I dont think it ever
>>>>
>>came
>>
>>>>with one.
>>>>
>>>So install one.
>>>
>>>>So what did the original pilots do to find peak?
>>>>
>>>They didn't. The mixture control in the CJ6A was marked in meters and
>>>
>you
>
>>>just set the lever next to your altitude. The only problem with this
>>>mechanism is that it assumes that the carburetor and its linkages are
>>>
>all
>
>>>properly adjusted.
>>>
>>>>I was told to put
>>>>the mixture lever parallel to the throttle, but that sounds a bit
>>>>
>crude.
>
>>>Not only is it crude, it is wrong. Stock CJ6As have an interconnect tab
>>>that automatically moves the mixture control to full rich when the
>>>
>>throttle
>>
>>>is retarded. (The mixture lever is prevented from being more forward
>>>
>than
>
>>>the throttle lever.) The only problem is that it allows you to move the
>>>mixture control to full lean when the throttle is fully open. I dislike
>>>this mechanism because sometimes it makes sense to lean the engine
>>>
>during
>
>>>ground operation. All CJ6As I have seen have removed this tab.
>>>
>>>The bottom line is knowing what the mixture actually is. There are two
>>>ways I know of to do this easily: measure EGT or measure oxygen content
>>>
>in
>
>>>the exhaust. EGT is itself indirect because you have to adjust the
>>>
>>mixture
>>
>>>to see the effect on EGT to identify the proper mixture. Peak EGT
>>>
>occurs
>
>>>at the point of proper stochastic mixture, i.e. the proper ratio of fuel
>>>
>>to
>>
>>>oxygen that results in total combustion with neither excess fuel nor
>>>
>>excess
>>
>>>O2 in the exhaust.
>>>
>>>The oxygen sensor is an even better way to determine mixture because it
>>>actually measures excess O2 (mixture too lean). This is how computers
>>>
>in
>
>>>automobile engines measure and adjust the mixture automatically.
>>>
>>>So without either an EGT or an O2 sensor/display, you really have no
>>>
>idea
>
>>>what the mixture is in your airplane. You have to trust that the carb
>>>
>and
>
>>>linkage are properly adjusted or you have to err on the rich side to
>>>
>>ensure
>>
>>>not causing damage to the engine at high power settings.
>>>
>>>
>>>Brian Lloyd
>>>brian(at)lloyd.com
>>>+1.530.676.1113 - voice
>>>+1.360.838.9669 - fax
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
I'd like to go, I can also possibly have my L-29 there if you can cover the
fuel for it.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Samuel Sax" <cd001633(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Fly-in
>
> Boys & Gals,
>
> The Wings Over Miami Museum (Formerly Weeks Air Museum) is holding its
first
> Warbird fly-in event on Memorial Day weekend (May 25-26th) - you all are
> invited! Fuel is provided as well as hotel rooms (while they last).
>
> www.wingsovermiami.com - we are having our Memorial Day weekend fly-in on
> the 25th-26th and you are invited, fuel and hotel provided. Let me know
if
> you can make it.
>
> Visit the museum on line at www.wingsovermiami.com
>
> Location: Kendall Tamiami Executive Airport (TMB), Miami, FL.
>
> Please let me know if you are coming - hope to see you there!
>
> Sam Sax
> N92863 "Sax Machine"
>
> 305.215.5599
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Russ Dycus" <dycusr(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | First ever MTW bowling Clinic |
For the first time anywhere! The first annual bowling clinic will be
held at MTW concurrent with the usual Pre-OSH formation clinic.
Equipment list
1. Bowling ball, must have current annual
2. Nomex bowling Shirt, preferably Sage green with lots of Bowling
patches attached
3. Bowling bag
4. Fireproof bowling shoes
5. Nomex bowling gloves
6. Parachute, with current packing date (You can't be too careful)
7. All licenses, permits, and paperwork. These will be verified
9. A sense of humor
10. To bowl at Osh you will be required to have a BAST (Bowlers of
America Standardization Test) patch
Russ (Sorry Mike, but I couldn't resist) Dycus
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
At 05:32 AM 5/14/2002, you wrote:
>
>Brian,
>
>Please accept my order for 10 of the maintenance CD's at $1.00 each. If Ray
>is correct and your cost is $.75 each, then you'll have a 25% profit, which
>should be significant. I'm sure that this will more than cover your missed
>day of work. Could you please ship them in individual mailers?
Cute Mike. :
)
>Mike (helping Brian get rich) McCoy
Thank you for thinking of me!
>P.S. Even if you aren't making big bucks by selling me these CD's, please
>do it anyway. You wouldn't want to jeopardize my safety just because you're
>losing money.
Absolutely not! I want you to be safe. In fact, I will be happy to
provide dual instruction to you so you can be even safer! ;
)
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Drew" <aapilot(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Attendance List at Red Star |
Folks,
I put the roll call with aircraft type up at www.allredstar.com for
those who wanted that info. Some photos are also posted. Please e-mail
me if you need specific contact info...
Drew
Drew A. Blahnick
Red Star Inc.
Cell 310-493-4245
www.allredstar.com
Communism: lousy politics - great airplanes!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Russ Dycus" <dycusr(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 05/14/02 |
No, no, NO! Brian! You are Latte sucking, SUV driving, YUPPIE scum!
Russ (tongue firmly in cheek) Dycus
> Brian said
> Yeah, but I guess I am still an evil money-grubbing capitalist whore.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Attendance List at Red Star |
Drew,
Went to web site. Could not find list nor pics.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Fwd: When Cows Fly |
> This came out of the NAVAL AIR SYS Command, WEEKLY SAFETY WRAPUP.
> __________________________________________________________________
> Earlier this year, the dazed crew of a Japanese Trawler were plucked out
> of the Sea of Japan clinging to the wreckage of their sunken ship. Their
> rescue, however, was followed by immediate imprisonment once authorities
> questioned the sailors on their ship's loss. They claimed that a cow,
> falling out of a clear blue sky, had struck the trawler amidships,
> shattering its
> hull and sinking the vessel within minutes.
>
> They remained in prison for several weeks, until the Russian Air Force
> reluctantly informed Japanese authorities that the crew of one of its
> cargo planes had apparently stolen a cow wandering at the edge of a Siberian
> airfield, forced the cow into the plane's hold and hastily taken off for
> home. Unprepared for live cargo, the Russian crew was ill-equipped to
> manage a now rampaging cow within its hold. To save the aircraft and
> themselves, they shoved the animal out of the cargo hold as they crossed
> the Sea of Japan at an altitude of 30,000 feet.
This must be an April Fools joke?
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
From: "RD Russell" <rrussell20(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: When Cows Fly
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 21:07:10 -0400
This came out of the NAVAL AIR SYS Command, WEEKLY SAFETY WRAPUP.
Earlier this year, the dazed crew of a Japanese Trawler were plucked out
of the Sea of Japan clinging to the wreckage of their sunken ship. Their
rescue, however, was followed by immediate imprisonment once authorities
questioned the sailors on their ship's loss. They claimed that a cow,
falling out of a clear blue sky, had struck the trawler amidships, shattering its
hull and sinking the vessel within minutes.
They remained in prison for several weeks, until the Russian Air Force
reluctantly informed Japanese authorities that the crew of one of its
cargo planes had apparently stolen a cow wandering at the edge of a Siberian
airfield, forced the cow into the plane's hold and hastily taken off for
home. Unprepared for live cargo, the Russian crew was ill-equipped to
manage a now rampaging cow within its hold. To save the aircraft and
themselves, they shoved the animal out of the cargo hold as they crossed
the Sea of Japan at an altitude of 30,000 feet.
This came out of the NAVAL AIR SYS Command, WEEKLY
SAFETY
WRAPUP.
__________________________________________________________________
Earlier
this year, the dazed crew of a Japanese Trawler were plucked out
of the Sea
of Japan clinging to the wreckage of their sunken ship. Their
rescue,
however, was followed by immediate imprisonment once authorities
questioned
the sailors on their ship's loss. They claimed that a cow,
falling out of a
clear blue sky, had struck the trawler amidships, shattering its
hull and
sinking the vessel within minutes.
They remained in prison for several weeks, until the
Russian Air Force
reluctantly informed Japanese authorities that the crew of
one of its
cargo planes had apparently stolen a cow wandering at the edge of
a Siberian
airfield, forced the cow into the plane's hold and hastily taken
off for
home. Unprepared for live cargo, the Russian crew was
ill-equipped to
manage a now rampaging cow within its hold. To
save the aircraft and
themselves, they shoved the animal out of the cargo
hold as they crossed
the Sea of Japan at an altitude of 30,000
feet.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Drew" <aapilot(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Re: Attendance List at Red Star |
It was probably updating Jim. Let me know.
Drew A. Blahnick
Red Star Inc.
Cell 310-493-4245
www.allredstar.com
Communism: lousy politics - great airplanes!
----- Original Message -----
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Attendance List at Red Star
Drew,
Went to web site. Could not find list nor pics.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to
obtain
a little safety, deserve neither
liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
=
=
messages.
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | my characterization |
>
>No, no, NO! Brian! You are Latte sucking, SUV driving, YUPPIE scum!
Nuh uh. I prefer mochas to lattes, I have a pickup truck, and I too old to
be considered a *young* upwardly-mobile person.
But I will fly for money! Actually I will fly for money, food, fun, love
or anything other reason you can think of.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mark and Alison Haskell" <markally(at)gwi.net> |
Subject: | Magazine articles |
Thanks to all of you who responded to my landing gear problems, and
thanks to Mark Jeffries of Yak UK for helping me weed through some of my
C of G issues! Your time and knowledge is much appreciated!
I had a chance to browse through the local bookstore this morning, and I
came across two magazines of interest to Yak pilots and fans. The May
2002 issue of Air and Space Smithsonian (www.airspacemag.com) has a
great article about former Soviet and communist airplanes and the
airshow scene. Pictures and info. on Yaks, CJ's, Migs, etc, including a
poster of various Red Star aircraft seen at airshows around N. America.
The April 2002 issue of AIRFORCES MONTHLY (www.airforcesmonthly.com) has
a neat article on the Sri Lanken Air Force and their new Nanchang PT-6
trainers. Good photos of the planes in action in low vis military gray.
Great exposure for us Yak lovers!
Regards,
Mark Haskell
"maineyak!" N52MY
markally(at)gwi.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Insurance Waiver Charges |
I was informed by my agent today that our insurer (AIG) is now charging for
additional insured and waiver of subrogation clauses added to the policy. In
our case it is $117 for this weekend's West Coast Formation Clinic at MER.
As more and more events/gatherings are requiring these, costs will start to
mount quickly.
Have others on the list experienced these charges? The agent said it is
becoming SOP, but that AIG does tend to "nickel & dime" a lot.
Any one have Bob Cannon's number handy?
Thanks, Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim & Alice" <alikatz(at)mbay.net> |
Subject: | Re: Attendance List at Red Star |
Drew,
Just giving you a hard time ;)
How's everything going with you? I'm hoping to have those Yak 52 Models
real soon, I'll let you know when they arrive. Take care
Jim, Jr
----- Original Message -----
From: Drew <aapilot(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Attendance List at Red Star
>
> It was probably updating Jim. Let me know.
>
>
> Drew A. Blahnick
> Red Star Inc.
> Cell 310-493-4245
> www.allredstar.com
> Communism: lousy politics - great airplanes!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
> To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 9:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Attendance List at Red Star
>
>
> Drew,
> Went to web site. Could not find list nor pics.
>
> Jim Goolsby
> cjpilot710(at)aol.com
> 386-467-3313 voice
> 386-467-3193 fax
> 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to
> obtain
> a little safety, deserve neither
> liberty nor
> safety"
> Benjamin Franklin 1759
> "There is no "innocence" in war. All
> collateral damage
> is acceptable."
> unk.
> "With my shield, or on it"
> Trojan Warriors BC
>
>
> messages.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Wes Warner <wes(at)lppcs.com> |
Subject: | allredstar yak spinner |
I was just looking at allredstar.com and noticed a red yak52 with a
giant spinner and the stock 2-blade prop. I am curious if these
spinners are still available. If the owner of this yak (or a friend of
him/her) could please contact me, It would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Wes
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Elliott, Patrick" <patrick.elliott(at)attws.com> |
Subject: | RED Star Photo's |
I've put the photo's I took at Redstar'02 (Saturday) up on the web.
redstar2002 folder.
for the raw big format go to http://rook.innercite.com/~pelliott/sprite/
Use freely, anywhere you like and in any way you like,
Hell, burn them on to a CD and let Brian sell them at $25 a piece..
Patrick Elliott
AT&T Wireless Services
Signaling Network Operations Team
10030 Goethe Road.
Sacramento, Ca. 95827
916-857-6420
"Every takeoff is optional. Every landing is mandatory."
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Elliott, Patrick" <patrick.elliott(at)attws.com> |
Subject: | RED Star Photo's |
For some reason the list server scrubbed the first link off my message..
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Russ Dycus" <dycusr(at)hotmail.com> |
An excellent poem that my Father gave me. He remembers it from WW II.
http://siri.org/anna/pilot
Russ (The Not So Passive Stability Augmentation aka the notorious GIB)
Dycus
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mark Jefferies , YAK UK Ltd" <yakuk(at)compuserve.com> |
Dear YAK owners and flyers.
As you mostly know by now CAA is meddling with our certification of FSU
a/c. Unfortunately this involves costs that are unnecessary in our
opinion. It will add nothing to air safety!!
Some of these costs are unavoidable, like weight report, load scheduled,
radio annual, compass swing, mods to stop engine starting,large sticky
letters, approx 10 hrs of licensed engineers time, 3 hrs of writing the
AAN and supporting papers, flight tests and reports,(shorter pipe lives
also),
At YAK UK we have decided upon a fixed price for the above works, this
will be =A31130 also to include the business of form filling for the
permit and the overflight permissions. The other works required are on
an individual a/c basis, i.e. what's the next scheduled maintenance,
what year of manufacture for mods, life items to check etc.
If you insert your a/c serial number in the box on the attached excel
form you will get the mods required displayed, then go to your a/c log
book on page 212 and check for compliance this is a good guide.
I will be at North Weald on the trade show for the next 3 days. If
owners of LY and RA a/c would like to visit (call me on arrival for a
free pass, 07785-538317) I have application forms with me and will
complete these forms with you if required. Have available your a/c
serial number, and total time. Bring your log books if you wish I will
be able to check for compliance of the mod status.
I have attached the notices from the CAA for information.
I hope this information is of use.
Best regards, Mark
M G Jefferies for
YAK UK Ltd www.yakuk.co.uk
Lt Gransden Airfield
Sandy, Beds
SG19 3BP England
Tel ## 44 (0)1767 651156 (fax 651157)
Mob ## 44 (0)7785 538317
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Fwd: Fw: FW: Little Known Facts] |
In a message dated 5/16/02 1:28:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rrussell20(at)cfl.rr.com writes:
Something from a friend of mine. From being with the Collings Foundation, I
know #4 is true. I once had a 8th AF bomber guy tell me "that once you
considered yourself already dead, missions became less freighting."
> Interesting little known facts about WWII...
> HISTORICAL INFORMATION from Col. D.G. Swinford, USMC, Ret., HISTORY BUFF
>
> 1. The first German serviceman killed in WW II was killed by the Japanese
> (China, 1937), the first American serviceman killed was killed by the
> Russians (Finland 1940), the highest ranking American killed was Lt. Gen.
> Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps. ... So much for allies.
> 2. The youngest US serviceman was 12 year old Calvin Graham, USN. He was
> wounded and given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying about his age. (His
> benefits were later restored by act of Congress)
> 3. At the time of Pearl Harbor the top US Navy command was called CINCUS
> (pronounced "sink us"), the shoulder patch of the US Army's 45th Infantry
> division was the Swastika, and Hitler's private train
> was named "Amerika."
> All three were soon changed for PR purposes.
> 4. More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the Marine Corps. While
> completing the required 30 missions your chance of being killed was 71%.
> 5. Generally speaking there was no such thing as an average fighter pilot.
> You were either an ace or a target. For instance, Japanese ace Hiroyoshi
> Nishizawa shot down over 80 planes. He died while a passenger on a cargo
> plane.
> 6. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round with a
> tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a mistake. Tracers had different
> ballistics so (at long range) if your tracers were hitting the target 80% of
> your rounds were missing. Worse yet, tracers instantly told your enemy he
> was under fire and from which direction. Worst of all was the practice of
> loading a string of tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were
> out of ammo. This was definitely not something you wanted to tell the enemy.
> Units that stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly double and
> their loss rate go down.
> YOU'VE GOT TO LOVE THIS ONE....
> 7. When allied armies reached the Rhine the first thing men did was pee in
> it. This was pretty universal from the lowest private to Winston Churchill
> (who made a big show of it) and Gen. Patton (who had himself photographed in
> the act).
> 8. German Me-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City but it wasn't
> worth the effort.
> 9. German submarine U-120 was sunk by a malfunctioning toilet.
> 10. Among the first "Germans" captured at Normandy were several Koreans.
> They had been forced to fight for the Japanese Army until they were captured
> by the Russians and forced to fight for the Russian Army until they were
> captured by the Germans and forced to fight for the German Army until they
> were captured by the US Army.
> AND THE BEST FOR LAST....
> 11. Following a massive naval bombardment, 35,000 US and Canadian troops
> stormed ashore at Kiska, in the Aleu
> tian Islands. 21 troops were killed in
> the firefight. It would have been worse if there had been any Japanese on
> the island.
> And now you know the rest of the story.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
From: "RD Russell" <rrussell20(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Fw: FW: Little Known Facts]
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 19:20:52 -0400
Interesting little known facts about WWII...
HISTORICAL INFORMATION from Col. D.G. Swinford, USMC, Ret., HISTORY BUFF
1. The first German serviceman killed in WW II was killed by the Japanese
(China, 1937), the first American serviceman killed was killed by the
Russians (Finland 1940), the highest ranking American killed was Lt. Gen.
Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps. ... So much for allies.
2. The youngest US serviceman was 12 year old Calvin Graham, USN. He was
wounded and given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying about his age. (His
benefits were later restored by act of Congress)
3. At the time of Pearl Harbor the top US Navy command was called CINCUS
(pronounced "sink us"), the shoulder patch of the US Army's 45th Infantry
division was the Swastika, and Hitler's private train
was named "Amerika."
All three were soon changed for PR purposes.
4. More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the Marine Corps. While
completing the required 30 missions your chance of being killed was 71%.
5. Generally speaking there was no such thing as an average fighter pilot.
You were either an ace or a target. For instance, Japanese ace Hiroyoshi
Nishizawa shot down over 80 planes. He died while a passenger on a cargo
plane.
6. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round with a
tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a mistake. Tracers had different
ballistics so (at long range) if your tracers were hitting the target 80% of
your rounds were missing. Worse yet, tracers instantly told your enemy he
was under fire and from which direction. Worst of all was the practice of
loading a string of tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were
out of ammo. This was definitely not something you wanted to tell the enemy.
Units that st
opped using tracers saw their success rate nearly double and
their loss rate go down.
YOU'VE GOT TO LOVE THIS ONE....
7. When allied armies reached the Rhine the first thing men did was pee in
it. This was pretty universal from the lowest private to Winston Churchill
(who made a big show of it) and Gen. Patton (who had himself photographed in
the act).
8. German Me-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City but it wasn't
worth the effort.
9. German submarine U-120 was sunk by a malfunctioning toilet.
10. Among the first "Germans" captured at Normandy were several Koreans.
They had been forced to fight for the Japanese Army until they were captured
by the Russians and forced to fight for the Russian Army until they were
captured by the Germans and forced to fight for the German Army until they
were captured by the US Army.
AND THE BEST FOR LAST....
11. Following a massive naval bombardment, 35,000 US and Canadian troops
stormed ashore at Kiska, in the Aleu
tian Islands. 21 troops were killed in
the firefight. It would have been worse if there had been any Japanese on
the island.
And now you know the rest of the story.
Interesting little known facts about WWII...
HISTORICAL
INFORMATION from Col. D.G. Swinford, USMC, Ret., HISTORY BUFF
1. The
first German serviceman killed in WW II was killed by the Japanese
(China,
1937), the first American serviceman killed was killed by the
Russians
(Finland 1940), the highest ranking American killed was Lt. Gen.
Lesley
McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps. ... So much for allies.
2.=20The
youngest US serviceman was 12 year old Calvin Graham, USN. He was
wounded and
given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying about his age. (His
benefits
were later restored by act of Congress)
3. At the time of Pearl Harbor
the top US Navy command was called CINCUS
(pronounced "sink us"), the
shoulder patch of the US Army's 45th Infantry
division was the Swastika,=20and
Hitler's private train
was named "Amerika."
All three were soon changed
for PR purposes.
4. More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the
Marine Corps. While
completing the required 30 missions your chance of
being killed was 71%.
5. Generally speaking there was no such thing=20as
an average fighter pilot.
You were either an ace or a target. For instance,
Japanese ace Hiroyoshi
Nishizawa shot down over 80 planes. He died while=20a
passenger on a cargo
plane.
6. It was a common practice on fighter
planes to load every 5th round with a
tracer round to aid in aiming. This was
a mistake. Tracers had different
ballistics so (at long range) if your
tracers were hitting the target 80% of
your rounds were missing. Worse yet,
tracers instantly told your enemy he
was under fire and from which direction.
Worst of all was the practice of
loading a string of tracers at the end of
the belt to tell you that you were
out of ammo. This was definitely not
something you wanted to tell the enemy.
Units that st
opped using tracers
saw their success rate nearly double and
their loss rate go down.
YOU'VE GOT TO LOVE THIS ONE....
7. When allied armies reached
the Rhine the first thing men did was pee in
it. This was pretty universal
from the lowest private to Winston Churchill
(who made a big show of it)=20and
Gen. Patton (who had himself photographed in
the act).
8. German
Me-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City but it wasn't
worth=20the
effort.
9. German submarine U-120 was sunk by a malfunctioning toilet.
10. Among the first "Germans" captured at Normandy were several
Koreans.
They had been forced to fight for the Japanese Army until they were
captured
by the Russians and forced to fight for the Russian Army until they
were
captured by the Germans and forced to fight for the German Army until
they
were captured by the US Army.
AND THE BEST FOR LAST....
11. Following a massive naval bombardment, 35,000 US and Canadian
troops
stormed ashore at Kiska, in the Aleu
tian Islands. 21 troops were
killed in
the firefight. It would have been worse if there had been any
Japanese on
the island.
And now you know the rest of the story.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "kpilling" <kjpilling(at)btclick.com> |
Subject: | Russian Aircraft Grounded in UK |
The UK CAA have in their infinite wisdom issued a grounding notice
applying to all Russian, & Lithuanian registered light aircraft.
Aircraft affected include Yak 12, 18, 50, 52 and 55 as well as SU26, 29
and 31. Around 120 aircraft are involved.
There are ways (very expensive) to get a number of these onto the UK
register albeit only if they can be proved to have a Military history.
Permits only will be issued, in itself not too restrictive but any Yak
aircraft manufactured after 1993 by Aerostar of Romania will be excluded
because they were produced not for the military but for the civilian
market!
My '52 was built in 1998 and therefore I cannot fly it legally after
Sunday !
My only real chance is to sell in the US.
Serial; 981206
218 hrs TT
Champion Plugs
Desser Tyres
Duplicated Cowl and Oil cooler controls (Factory fitted)
Western Altimeters
Garmin Colour GPS 295
Manifold drain (Factory Mod)
Air off start interrupter mod'
Luggage compartment.
New Ceconite Control Surfaces.
Anybody interested please respond off list to kjpilling(at)btclick.com for
photos and more info.
I can arrange shipping and re-assembly in US if required.
With apologies to all listers for advertising.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | VDesi10492(at)aol.com |
Hi,
I just got back in town and am very interested in getting some
maintenance CD's. How would I go about doing that? I think Brian had them
but I am not sure.
Thanks
Dave DeSimone
3640 Archer Lane
Plymouth, MN 55446
vdesi10492(at)AOL.com
763 5599189
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Fagan" <sashalee(at)iafrica.com> |
Subject: | Re: Russian Aircraft Grounded in UK |
What is the Price of this Yak please
We are looking for Two to Three 52s here is South Africa
First come fist bought
My email address is as follows
sashalee(at)iafrica.com
Kind regards
Mike Fagan
----- Original Message -----
From: kpilling <kjpilling(at)btclick.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Russian Aircraft Grounded in UK
>
> The UK CAA have in their infinite wisdom issued a grounding notice
> applying to all Russian, & Lithuanian registered light aircraft.
> Aircraft affected include Yak 12, 18, 50, 52 and 55 as well as SU26, 29
> and 31. Around 120 aircraft are involved.
>
> There are ways (very expensive) to get a number of these onto the UK
> register albeit only if they can be proved to have a Military history.
> Permits only will be issued, in itself not too restrictive but any Yak
> aircraft manufactured after 1993 by Aerostar of Romania will be excluded
> because they were produced not for the military but for the civilian
> market!
>
> My '52 was built in 1998 and therefore I cannot fly it legally after
> Sunday !
>
> My only real chance is to sell in the US.
>
> Serial; 981206
> 218 hrs TT
> Champion Plugs
> Desser Tyres
> Duplicated Cowl and Oil cooler controls (Factory fitted)
> Western Altimeters
> Garmin Colour GPS 295
> Manifold drain (Factory Mod)
> Air off start interrupter mod'
> Luggage compartment.
> New Ceconite Control Surfaces.
>
> Anybody interested please respond off list to kjpilling(at)btclick.com for
> photos and more info.
>
> I can arrange shipping and re-assembly in US if required.
>
> With apologies to all listers for advertising.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
yak-list(at)matronics.com wrote:
From: KingCJ6(at)aol.com
Yak-List: Insurance Waiver Charges
I was informed by my agent today that our insurer (AIG) is now charging for
additional insured and waiver of subrogation clauses added to the policy. In
our case it is $117 for this weekend's West Coast Formation Clinic at MER.
As more and more events/gatherings are requiring these, costs will start to
mount quickly.
Have others on the list experienced these charges? The agent said it is
becoming SOP, but that AIG does tend to "nickel & dime" a lot.
Any one have Bob Cannon's number handy?
Thanks, Dave
Dave,
Looking in my handy YPA Directory, I see the ad for Cannon...it is Tom
Johnson you want: 480-951-1566 or tjohnson(at)cannonaviation.com.
Craig Payne
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Yak list <yaklist(at)comcast.net> |
Flew into Newark International today for an aviation expo. Quite something
flying into an major airport like that in an experimental. Due to my op lim
(no landing at the main airport in class B) letter I called the FAA before
hand and they said that as long as I had a letter from the airport manager
no problem. The people there were great, and get this, NO LANDING FEE. They
had me take off 22R from the south end just at the start of the displaced
threshold for 4R so my entire runway was the threshold. They did this to
save me having to taxi the 2 miles or so to the other end, really
appreciated that on a hot day with a radial engine. Took off from there to
Marlboro 2N8. 2000ft runway, 40 planes and a dinner, one extreme to another.
We gave tours to 600 kids from Newark. This is an annual event so if anyone
wants to join in next year let me know and I will remind the group before
next years event.
Gus
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Russian Aircraft Grounded in UK |
Kjpilling wrote.....
"The UK CAA have in their infinite wisdom issued a grounding notice
applying to all Russian, & Lithuanian registered light aircraft.
Aircraft affected include Yak 12, 18, 50, 52 and 55 as well as SU26, 29
and 31. Around 120 aircraft are involved".
I'm reminded of a saying I heard a long time ago. Goes something like
this..........
Hello there. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you!
Can anyone here truly come up with a law recently passed by our
governments that INCREASED our freedoms?
I sure hope something like that don't happen to us here. At least it
won't if I have anything to say about it. Anyone know if AOPA would be
on our side if politicians were thinking of doing this to us?
Frank
Chino
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Russian Aircraft Grounded in UK |
OHH, yea. Almost forgot. I wanted to make a suggestion to our British
friends.
Why don't you move over here to the US? Sell all your British
properties, business' and bring your considerable wealth over here where
you can still exercise some freedoms....... Like flying Russian aircraft
or owning a gun. There's still plenty of land available here, living is
relatively cheap, we have great airshows and the British government may
just miss the wealth and expertise you represent for your country :-)
OHH, well, just a thought!
Frank
Chino
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: Fwd: When Cows Fly |
No, It is a true story reported by several news sources about 2 years ago.
----- Original Message -----
From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Fwd: When Cows Fly
> This came out of the NAVAL AIR SYS Command, WEEKLY SAFETY WRAPUP.
> __________________________________________________________________
> Earlier this year, the dazed crew of a Japanese Trawler were plucked out
> of the Sea of Japan clinging to the wreckage of their sunken ship. Their
> rescue, however, was followed by immediate imprisonment once authorities
> questioned the sailors on their ship's loss. They claimed that a cow,
> falling out of a clear blue sky, had struck the trawler amidships,
> shattering its
> hull and sinking the vessel within minutes.
>
> They remained in prison for several weeks, until the Russian Air Force
> reluctantly informed Japanese authorities that the crew of one of its
> cargo planes had apparently stolen a cow wandering at the edge of a
Siberian
> airfield, forced the cow into the plane's hold and hastily taken off for
> home. Unprepared for live cargo, the Russian crew was ill-equipped to
> manage a now rampaging cow within its hold. To save the aircraft and
> themselves, they shoved the animal out of the cargo hold as they crossed
> the Sea of Japan at an altitude of 30,000 feet.
This must be an April Fools joke?
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
From: "RD Russell" <rrussell20(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: When Cows Fly
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 21:07:10 -0400
This came out of the NAVAL AIR SYS Command, WEEKLY SAFETY WRAPUP.
Earlier this year, the dazed crew of a Japanese Trawler were plucked out
of the Sea of Japan clinging to the wreckage of their sunken ship. Their
rescue, however, was followed by immediate imprisonment once authorities
questioned the sailors on their ship's loss. They claimed that a cow,
falling out of a clear blue sky, had struck the trawler amidships,
shattering its
hull and sinking the vessel within minutes.
They remained in prison for several weeks, until the Russian Air Force
reluctantly informed Japanese authorities that the crew of one of its
cargo planes had apparently stolen a cow wandering at the edge of a Siberian
airfield, forced the cow into the plane's hold and hastily taken off for
home. Unprepared for live cargo, the Russian crew was ill-equipped to
manage a now rampaging cow within its hold. To save the aircraft and
themselves, they shoved the animal out of the cargo hold as they crossed
the Sea of Japan at an altitude of 30,000 feet.
This came out of the NAVAL AIR SYS Command, WEEKLY
SAFETY
WRAPUP.
_____________________________________________________________
=
_____
Earlier
this year, the dazed crew of a Japanese Trawler were plucked out
of the
Sea
of Japan clinging to the wreckage of their sunken ship.
Their
rescue,
however, was followed by immediate imprisonment once
authorities
questioned
the sailors on their ship's loss. They claimed that a cow,
falling out
of a
clear blue sky, had struck the trawler amidships, shattering its
hull
and
sinking the vessel within minutes.
They remained in prison for several weeks, until the
Russian Air Force
reluctantly informed Japanese authorities that the
crew of
one of its
cargo planes had apparently stolen a cow wandering at the
edge of
a Siberian
airfield, forced the cow into the plane's hold and hastily
taken
off for
home. Unprepared for live cargo, the Russian crew was
ill-equipped to
manage a now rampaging cow within its hold.
To
save the aircraft and
themselves, they shoved the animal out of the
cargo
hold as they crossed
the Sea of Japan at an altitude of 30,000
feet.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | brian olofsson <brian060901(at)yahoo.com> |
Does any one know some one that does a good Job dynamically balancing yak props
around Chicago. I've had it done twice by G+N with so so results. I have a
3/10 vibration till 45% then smooth till 75% 3/10 till 88% then again smooth.
in the 75-88% I get some shaking of the pitot tube. Thanks Brian
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Yak list <yaklist(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: Russian Aircraft Grounded in UK |
Frank,
I already heard the call.
In the UK the CAA (FAA equiv) are affectionately known as the Campaign
Against Aviation. I think the logic works something like this
Hey, If we can keep all these damn plane thingies on the ground our jobs
will be oh so easy, lets do it....
Ii know the FAA can make some "strange" calls but hell at least we are still
flying. The only rule here that gives me a headache is the no aeros with 4nm
of a Victor airway. And, that is only a problem because I live near EWR, JFK
& LGA. In England what is class B airspace here is all class A. The
countries airspace is sliced up by 50mile wide "victor airways at descending
altitudes into Heathrow and other airports. Where I used to fly in England
you could not do a decent hammerhead without a quick oops at the top.
Maybe the victor airways will disappear with the adoption of free flight, or
maybe they will ban aeros altogether due to the possibility of collision
anywhere, who knows.
Thanks for the comments. Russian owning Brits, come on in the waters great.
Gus
Ex Pat Brit in New Jersey.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Russian Aircraft Grounded in UK
>
> OHH, yea. Almost forgot. I wanted to make a suggestion to our British
> friends.
>
> Why don't you move over here to the US? Sell all your British
> properties, business' and bring your considerable wealth over here where
> you can still exercise some freedoms....... Like flying Russian aircraft
> or owning a gun. There's still plenty of land available here, living is
> relatively cheap, we have great airshows and the British government may
> just miss the wealth and expertise you represent for your country :-)
>
> OHH, well, just a thought!
> Frank
> Chino
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Walter Fricke <walterfricke(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fwd: When Cows Fly |
--- Cy Galley wrote:
>
>
> No, It is a true story reported by several news
> sources about 2 years ago.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Yak-List: Fwd: When Cows Fly
Jim & Cy:
Check www.snopes.com for veracity of suspect stories
and you'll find the likes of the following:
Claim: The rescued crew of a Japanese fishing
trawler were held in custody when Russian officials
refused to believe their claim that their boat was
sunk by a falling cow.
Example: [Collected on the Internet, 1996]
A very strange true story:
Earlier this year, the dazed crew of a Japanese
trawler were plucked of the Sea of Japan clinging to
the wreckage of their sunken ship.........
Origins: What's not to love about a cow falling from
the clear blue sky story? (There is something
especially hilarious about the mental picture of cows
flying through the air -- a memorable episode of the
TV show Northern Exposure centered on one of the
town's madcap resident's plans to catapult a cow as a
work of performance art.)
This legend has been entertaining people for years,
and the nationality of the cow has changed throughout
the tellings, as has that of the ship it supposedly
swamped. A 1993 folklore book refers to this story's
appearing in the 1 June 1990 Moscow News. In that
version the cow was brought onto the aircraft as a
spur-of-the-moment thing and then driven out of the
plane as the colder air at high altitudes caused her
to become agitated. A similar story shows up in a 1983
folklore book and is said to date to around 1965. In
that case the airborne bovine dropped onto the hood of
a car in Scotland.
The Spring 1996 outbreak of this legend came from the
tale being passed from the German Embassy in Moscow to
the Foreign Ministry in Bonn, and someplace betwixt
the two transforming itself from apocryphal legend
into news story; it subsequently appeared as such in
German newspapers. Perhaps it had something to do with
the "falling cow" tale's having shown up in a
then-recent Russian film, Osobennosti Natsionalnoi
Okhoty (Peculiarities of the National Hunt). The film
depicts hunters stealing a cow and hiding it in a
military jet. Russians also tell the falling cow story
as a joke, something along the line of the Barrel of
Bricks legend in that the hapless fisherman is trying
to explain what happened to his boat but having
difficulty getting anyone to believe him.
Further complicating the mess was someone's twisting
of Reuters' well-researched explanation in April 1996
of how this age-old chestnut had ended up working its
way into German newspapers. (It's sad but true --
articles that debunk legends are often misinterpreted
as news accounts of actual events.) Now "falling cow"
stories appearing on the Internet sport this
attribution: "According to the Reuters News Service:
'Cows Fly.'"
http://launch.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Fwd: When Cows Fly |
I guess this show how little I hear from the world. I guess I'm a little
slow on the up take. What made it hard to believe was the 30,000' altitude
dropping from the plane. Folks tend to forget about pressurization. Even
the free falls the commandos do out the back of high altitude C-130 take
considerable effort than just opening a door. Oh well it makes a good giggle
if one has even the slightest imagination.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver(at)earthlink.net> |
Yaksters
Does anyone know if the YAK-52 wing is a stressed skin design? Let me
say that I think it is but I'd like confirmation. I'm thinking about
adding extra fuel capacity.
Frank
Chino
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net> |
Brian,
When was the last time you had your blade angles set with a digital level?
If you haven't had that done before dynamically balancing, then you're
probably masking the root of the problem. I'll send you a white paper I
wrote that describes how to do it with the prop on the airplane. Several
people have used it and say it solved their problem. It definitely solved
mine and I was doing the same thing you were; dynamically balancing time
after time.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "brian olofsson" <brian060901(at)yahoo.com>
>
> Does any one know some one that does a good Job dynamically balancing yak
props around Chicago. I've had it done twice by G+N with so so results. I
have a 3/10 vibration till 45% then smooth till 75% 3/10 till 88% then again
smooth. in the 75-88% I get some shaking of the pitot tube. Thanks Brian
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
I'd like a copy of that white paper also if you dont mind.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Re:
>
> Brian,
> When was the last time you had your blade angles set with a digital level?
> If you haven't had that done before dynamically balancing, then you're
> probably masking the root of the problem. I'll send you a white paper I
> wrote that describes how to do it with the prop on the airplane. Several
> people have used it and say it solved their problem. It definitely solved
> mine and I was doing the same thing you were; dynamically balancing time
> after time.
> Dennis Savarese
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "brian olofsson" <brian060901(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
>
>
> >
> > Does any one know some one that does a good Job dynamically balancing
yak
> props around Chicago. I've had it done twice by G+N with so so results.
I
> have a 3/10 vibration till 45% then smooth till 75% 3/10 till 88% then
again
> smooth. in the 75-88% I get some shaking of the pitot tube. Thanks
Brian
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RedSkyAviation(at)aol.com |
Me too please.
Bob
I'd like a copy of that white paper also if you dont mind.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net>
To:
Subject: Re:
>
> Brian,
> When was the last time you had your blade angles set with a digital level?
> If you haven't had that done before dynamically balancing, then you're
> probably masking the root of the problem. I'll send you a white paper I
> wrote that describes how to do it with the prop on the airplane. Several
> people have used it and say it solved their problem. It definitely solved
> mine and I was doing the same thing you were; dynamically balancing time
> after time.
> Dennis Savarese
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net> |
Here you go Ernie. Let me know if you have any questions.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re:
>
> I'd like a copy of that white paper also if you dont mind.
>
> Ernie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net>
> To:
> Subject: Yak-List: Re:
>
>
> >
> > Brian,
> > When was the last time you had your blade angles set with a digital
level?
> > If you haven't had that done before dynamically balancing, then you're
> > probably masking the root of the problem. I'll send you a white paper I
> > wrote that describes how to do it with the prop on the airplane.
Several
> > people have used it and say it solved their problem. It definitely
solved
> > mine and I was doing the same thing you were; dynamically balancing time
> > after time.
> > Dennis Savarese
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "brian olofsson" <brian060901(at)yahoo.com>
> > To:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Does any one know some one that does a good Job dynamically balancing
> yak
> > props around Chicago. I've had it done twice by G+N with so so results.
> I
> > have a 3/10 vibration till 45% then smooth till 75% 3/10 till 88% then
> again
> > smooth. in the 75-88% I get some shaking of the pitot tube. Thanks
> Brian
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net> |
Here you go Bob. BTW, it's only a "white paper if you print it out. Hope
it helps. Any questions, please let me know.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: <RedSkyAviation(at)aol.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Re: RE
>
> Me too please.
>
> Bob
>
> I'd like a copy of that white paper also if you dont mind.
>
> Ernie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re:
>
>
> >
> > Brian,
> > When was the last time you had your blade angles set with a digital
level?
> > If you haven't had that done before dynamically balancing, then
you're
> > probably masking the root of the problem. I'll send you a white
paper I
> > wrote that describes how to do it with the prop on the airplane.
Several
> > people have used it and say it solved their problem. It definitely
solved
> > mine and I was doing the same thing you were; dynamically balancing
time
> > after time.
> > Dennis Savarese
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | brian olofsson <brian060901(at)yahoo.com> |
Note: forwarded message attached.
---------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 08:19:46 -0500
From: bnfitz <fitz(at)colint.com>
Subject: Airplanes
Lee Crevier-work , Paula A Crevier ,
Deb Hayden , Frank Beagle ,
Shari and/or Paul ,
Mark Dankel ,
Mark & Tammie Blackwell
Maybe you have seen this. Kinda cute.
DIFFERENCES BETWEEN WOMEN AND AIRPLANES
Airplanes can kill you quickly; a woman takes her time.
Airplanes can be turned on by a flick of a switch.
Airplanes don't get mad if you touch and go.
Airplanes don't object to a preflight inspection.
Airplanes come with manuals to explain their operation.
Airplanes have strict weight and balance limits.
Airplanes can be flown any time of the month.
Airplanes don't come with in-laws.
Airplanes don't care about how many other airplanes you have flown before.
Airplanes and pilots both arrive at the same time.
Airplanes don't mind if you like to look at other airplanes.
Airplanes don't mind if you buy airplane magazines.
Airplanes expect to be tied down.
Airplanes don't comment on your piloting skills.
Airplanes don't whine unless something is really wrong.
However, when airplanes go quiet, just like women, it's a bad thing.
Maybe you have seen this. Kinda cute.
DIFFERENCES BETWEEN WOMEN AND AIRPLANES
Airplanes can kill you quickly; a woman takes her time.
Airplanes can be turned on by a flick of a switch.
Airplanes don't get mad if you touch and go.
Airplanes don't object to a preflight inspection.
Airplanes come with manuals to explain their operation.
Airplanes have strict weight and balance limits.
Airplanes can be flown any time of the month.
Airplanes don't come with in-laws.
Airplanes don't care about how many other airplanes you have flown
before.
Airplanes and pilots both arrive at the same time.
Airplanes don't mind if you like to look at other airplanes.
Airplanes don't mind if you buy airplane magazines.
Airplanes expect to be tied down.
Airplanes don't comment on your piloting skills.
Airplanes don't whine unless something is really wrong.
However, when airplanes go quiet, just like women, it's a bad thing.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | VDesi10492(at)aol.com |
Hi Frank
I got my 52 from Igor Grewshevski it St Louis and he put wet wings
in it for me I have 30 gal per side and it did not change cg. Give him a
call 314 393 7697
Dave DeSimone Good Luck
vdesi10492(at)AOL.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | brian olofsson <brian060901(at)yahoo.com> |
Dave: If I may ask; How much and how well does it work? Does he place a secound
set of caps. How long have you had this system Brian
Hi Frank
I got my 52 from Igor Grewshevski it St Louis and he put wet wings
in it for me I have 30 gal per side and it did not change cg. Give him a
call 314 393 7697
Dave DeSimone Good Luck
vdesi10492(at)AOL.com
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jeff Linebaugh" <linedog(at)peoplepc.com> |
Does anybody have a good source for Phillips 25W-60 Radial engine oil?
Can't seem to find any of the usual suppliers (Aircraft Spruce, etc...) that
list it in their catalogs...
Thanks
Jeff Linebaugh
linedog(at)peoplepc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jeff Linebaugh" <linedog(at)peoplepc.com> |
"Barry W Hancock"
Subject: | Glossary of Terms from Red Star and Sun 'n Fun |
It seems that some new word definitions have evolved amongst the Yak
community at this year's events....
It would be a shame to have anyone feel left out of the "lingo" at the next
gathering when "yaker's" get yaking so here's a partial list to get you
caught up (in case you missed Red Star or Sun 'n Fun):
(Note: this is just a partial list....others please feel free to jump in
here....)
Yak-er...................A Yak driver.....not to be confused with a sick
passenger spewing his lunch on his first aerobatic ride.
Chang................. Affectionate term for Nanchang CJ-6A (for
example..... "Did you see Linedog's gorgeous Chang?")
Chang-er............. a Chang driver (note: a chang-er is also to be
considered a yak-er)
Crud..................... A game where partially inebriated yakers chase
each other around a billiard table attempting to prevent their opponent from
sinking his balls.
Carrier landing...... An attempt by a yaker to stop his/her body on a wet
deck (aka. a beer soaked ping pong table) after a full running leap and
belly slam onto the deck, using only his/her feet to engage the arresting
gear.
Bolter................. An unsuccessful Carrier Landing attempt where a
yaker's body continues past the arresting gear, usually resulting in a
crashing fall to the floor and howling sounds emitted by bystanders.
249 Knots..............The speed at which Mig 21's perform full afterburner
fly-by's below 10,000' MSL.
Mucous............. the name given to a particular bare-metal (anodized)
Yak-52W that longs for a paint job.... also known as "mucous camo"
Chinese Fire Drill.....5 chang-ers and a yak-er at an unfamiliar airport all
trying to find parking spots, doing 360's on a huge empty ramp with tie-down
chains in no apparent logical layout in front of 10 admiring onlookers.
("Uuh, you had such a nice big ramp, we thought we'd practice our, uh,
synchronized parking...yeah..that's it")
taxi-speed control device.....2001 Ford Aerostar Minivan
camaraderie..........yak-er's and chang-er's, jet jocks and gibs all having
a great time together enjoying the particular bond amongst us.....
Jeff Linebaugh
linedog(at)peoplepc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Phillips 25W-60 |
Try Sacramento Sky Ranch in Sacramento CA.
Frank Stelwagon
CJ-6A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Linebaugh" <linedog(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Phillips 25W-60
>
> Does anybody have a good source for Phillips 25W-60 Radial engine oil?
> Can't seem to find any of the usual suppliers (Aircraft Spruce, etc...)
that
> list it in their catalogs...
>
> Thanks
> Jeff Linebaugh
> linedog(at)peoplepc.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dr. Robert Schroeder" <firedog(at)visi.com> |
Dennis,
I would like to see it also...but alais its not attached...so when
I print, all I see is WHITE! Or was that the point? (subtle Brain Lloyd
catagory joke)
Thanks,
Robert Schroeder...one of them "Chang" guys
firedog(at)visi.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Re: RE
Here you go Bob. BTW, it's only a "white paper if you print it out. Hope
it helps. Any questions, please let me know.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: <RedSkyAviation(at)aol.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Re: RE
>
> Me too please.
>
> Bob
>
> I'd like a copy of that white paper also if you dont mind.
>
> Ernie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re:
>
>
> >
> > Brian,
> > When was the last time you had your blade angles set with a digital
level?
> > If you haven't had that done before dynamically balancing, then
you're
> > probably masking the root of the problem. I'll send you a white
paper I
> > wrote that describes how to do it with the prop on the airplane.
Several
> > people have used it and say it solved their problem. It definitely
solved
> > mine and I was doing the same thing you were; dynamically balancing
time
> > after time.
> > Dennis Savarese
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net> |
All,
The Phillips E-Store was really the best price including shipping. But the
E-Store is down so I called Phillips and raised hell. They turned me on to
Red Star Oil Co. (kinda appropriate huh?) in North Carolina. Case price for
gallons was $30.34 which I believe was almost identical to the Phillips
E-Store. I also received the following from Chip Poole at Redstar. Anyone
wanting to share 10 or 20 cases may want to take advantage of this. I don't
have a distributor in Alabama. BTW, if you're wondering who Anthony is,
Anthony is my first name.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Poole" <ecpoole(at)bellsouth.net>
> ANTHONY
>
> THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST IN RED STAR OIL CO PRODUCTS. BELOW YOU WILL
> FIND THE APPROPRIATE PRICES.
>
> 10 CASES - 5% DISCOUNT
>
> 20 OR MORE CASES - 10% DISCOUNT
>
> I CALLED AND GOT A FREIGHT RATE ON 10 CASES - $77.58 ON A FREIGHT TRUCK.
>
> ANY MORE QUESTIONS
>
> YOU MAY CALL ME AT 1-800-774-6033
>
> THANK YOU
>
> CHIP POOLE
> PLANT MANAGER
> RED STAR OIL
> WWW.REDSTAROIL.COM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Barry W. Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
>
>
> Does anybody have a good source for Phillips 25W-60 Radial engine oil?
> Can't seem to find any of the usual suppliers (Aircraft Spruce, etc...)
> that
> list it in their catalogs...
>
> Thanks
> Jeff Linebaugh
> linedog(at)peoplepc.com
I've heard this question more than a couple of times. The best (least
expensive) way to buy it is from wholesale petroleum distributors.
There's one about 50 miles from where I live that sells both the 2.5
gal. containers and the 55 gal. drums. Yeah, it's a haul, but it's
worth it. Buying in the drums will save you about 50% (several hundred
dollars) if you can do a bulk purchase (i.e. find 5-8 guys that want the
drums and pick 'em all up at the same time).
That's about all the information I can Volunteer to a Tenneseean....
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Phillips 25W-60 |
At 07:44 PM 5/17/2002, you wrote:
>
>Does anybody have a good source for Phillips 25W-60 Radial engine oil?
>Can't seem to find any of the usual suppliers (Aircraft Spruce, etc...) that
>list it in their catalogs...
I am lucky in that Philips sponsors Julie Clark so she gets the oil for me
as part of her order for oil for her T-28. The nice thing is that,
somehow, she gets it in 1 gallon containers, perfect for the CJ or
Yak-52. When I change my oil I add 5 gallons (20 quarts) which brings it
up to full. I then let it get down to 14L whereupon I add a gallon. It
couldn't be more convenient.
I will check with Julie to see if there is a way to procure 25W60 in 1
gallon containers. If I can get it could I please see a show of hands from
people who want it and an estimate of how much oil you would need and how
often. I will try to get a jobber like Sacramento Sky Ranch to carry it in
the 1 gallon containers so that people can then order it from there.
Maybe Doug Sapp, Jim Selby, or one of the other purveyors of parts would be
willing to become a dealer so we would have a place to get it and help
support the people who keep us flying.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
At 05:48 AM 5/18/2002, you wrote:
>
>All,
>The Phillips E-Store was really the best price including shipping. But the
>E-Store is down so I called Phillips and raised hell. They turned me on to
>Red Star Oil Co. (kinda appropriate huh?) in North Carolina. Case price for
>gallons was $30.34 which I believe was almost identical to the Phillips
>E-Store. I also received the following from Chip Poole at Redstar. Anyone
>wanting to share 10 or 20 cases may want to take advantage of this. I don't
>have a distributor in Alabama. BTW, if you're wondering who Anthony is,
>Anthony is my first name.
Dennis, what's the matter with you? Don't you know you are supposed to
debate whether 25W60 oil is better than W100 instead of doing research on
how to procure the stuff? If you persist in such rational behavior I may
have to revoke your Yak-List card.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net> |
Woops! Another brain fart. But that's what happens when you implicitly
trust your yak list friends who swear by the 25W-60.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fw:
>
> At 05:48 AM 5/18/2002, you wrote:
> >
> >All,
> >The Phillips E-Store was really the best price including shipping. But
the
> >E-Store is down so I called Phillips and raised hell. They turned me on
to
> >Red Star Oil Co. (kinda appropriate huh?) in North Carolina. Case price
for
> >gallons was $30.34 which I believe was almost identical to the Phillips
> >E-Store. I also received the following from Chip Poole at Redstar.
Anyone
> >wanting to share 10 or 20 cases may want to take advantage of this. I
don't
> >have a distributor in Alabama. BTW, if you're wondering who Anthony is,
> >Anthony is my first name.
>
> Dennis, what's the matter with you? Don't you know you are supposed to
> debate whether 25W60 oil is better than W100 instead of doing research on
> how to procure the stuff? If you persist in such rational behavior I may
> have to revoke your Yak-List card.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net> |
Subject: | Re: Phillips 25W-60 |
Remember my Red Star Oil Co. post. They supplied me with 1 gallon cases for
30.34 per case.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Phillips 25W-60
>
> At 07:44 PM 5/17/2002, you wrote:
> >
> >Does anybody have a good source for Phillips 25W-60 Radial engine oil?
> >Can't seem to find any of the usual suppliers (Aircraft Spruce, etc...)
that
> >list it in their catalogs...
>
> I am lucky in that Philips sponsors Julie Clark so she gets the oil for me
> as part of her order for oil for her T-28. The nice thing is that,
> somehow, she gets it in 1 gallon containers, perfect for the CJ or
> Yak-52. When I change my oil I add 5 gallons (20 quarts) which brings it
> up to full. I then let it get down to 14L whereupon I add a gallon. It
> couldn't be more convenient.
>
> I will check with Julie to see if there is a way to procure 25W60 in 1
> gallon containers. If I can get it could I please see a show of hands
from
> people who want it and an estimate of how much oil you would need and how
> often. I will try to get a jobber like Sacramento Sky Ranch to carry it
in
> the 1 gallon containers so that people can then order it from there.
>
> Maybe Doug Sapp, Jim Selby, or one of the other purveyors of parts would
be
> willing to become a dealer so we would have a place to get it and help
> support the people who keep us flying.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net> |
Subject: | Re: Phillips 25W-60 |
That's plus shipping of course.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Phillips 25W-60
>
> Remember my Red Star Oil Co. post. They supplied me with 1 gallon cases
for
> 30.34 per case.
> Dennis Savarese
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Phillips 25W-60
>
>
> >
> > At 07:44 PM 5/17/2002, you wrote:
> > >
> > >Does anybody have a good source for Phillips 25W-60 Radial engine oil?
> > >Can't seem to find any of the usual suppliers (Aircraft Spruce, etc...)
> that
> > >list it in their catalogs...
> >
> > I am lucky in that Philips sponsors Julie Clark so she gets the oil for
me
> > as part of her order for oil for her T-28. The nice thing is that,
> > somehow, she gets it in 1 gallon containers, perfect for the CJ or
> > Yak-52. When I change my oil I add 5 gallons (20 quarts) which brings
it
> > up to full. I then let it get down to 14L whereupon I add a gallon. It
> > couldn't be more convenient.
> >
> > I will check with Julie to see if there is a way to procure 25W60 in 1
> > gallon containers. If I can get it could I please see a show of hands
> from
> > people who want it and an estimate of how much oil you would need and
how
> > often. I will try to get a jobber like Sacramento Sky Ranch to carry it
> in
> > the 1 gallon containers so that people can then order it from there.
> >
> > Maybe Doug Sapp, Jim Selby, or one of the other purveyors of parts would
> be
> > willing to become a dealer so we would have a place to get it and help
> > support the people who keep us flying.
> >
> >
> > Brian Lloyd
> > brian(at)lloyd.com
> > +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> > +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Fly-over request |
Fellow Yakkers,
I told a Delta Captain that I would post his request for a warbird fly over
of the St. Francis Yacht Club's Stag cruise the last weekend in September.
They will be at Tinsley Island on the Sacramento River and can provide gas
and lodging. Evidently this is a pretty highbrow event and sounds like fun.
Point of Contact is georgedort(at)peoplepc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
For anyone who wants a complete set of lettering for all of the access panels
for your Nanchang, Steve Petersen of Classic Fighters in Marlborough, New
Zealand has a CD or a complete set already transferred onto vinyl that he
will sell you for cost and shipping. Contact Steve at:
steve.petersen(at)xtra.co.nz You can admire mine at Columbus, NB this June.
Skip "Ranger" Slyfield
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 5/18/02 11:43:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
radialpower(at)cox.net writes:
>
> I've heard this question more than a couple of times. The best (least
> expensive) way to buy it is from wholesale petroleum distributors.
> There's one about 50 miles from where I live that sells both the 2.5
> gal. containers and the 55 gal. drums. Yeah, it's a haul, but it's
> worth it. Buying in the drums will save you about 50% (several hundred
> dollars) if you can do a bulk purchase (i.e. find 5-8 guys that want the
> drums and pick 'em all up at the same time).
>
> That's about all the information I can Volunteer to a Tenneseean....
>
> Barry
>
This is what I did. Usually there are wholesale distributors near by. You
may be able to find one just by asking retailers where their supplier is.
That's how I found mine. If the wholesaler does not have it, he can get it
quicker and cheaper for you than anyone else.
You may be able to find a wholesaler by asking a mechanic at your local FBO.
I bought my oil in 55 gal drums. For about $25.00 I purchased a hand pump
that fit right in it and came with 5' hose. Each pump of the handle puts in
one liter of oil. I bought a drum dolly (a ring with 4 wheels) for about
$25.00. I just push it up to the side of the cowl, put in what I need, and
push the drum back to corner. Clean, no mess.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Terry Calloway" <tcalloway(at)datatechnique.com> |
Hey gang,
What's the lineup looking like for Nebraska. ie Who is planning on being there?
Anyone wanting to traverse through Eastern Kansas is welcome to join up with our
flight.
tc
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ATPCFIMD(at)aol.com |
We planning on going to Columbus. Probably leave the 4th. Leaving from
northern Illinois. Anyone wanting to fly along let me know.
Bill Helvey
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Phillips 25W-60 |
At 10:39 AM 5/18/2002, you wrote:
>
>Remember my Red Star Oil Co. post. They supplied me with 1 gallon cases for
>30.34 per case.
I read all the messages with the Phillips 25W60 subject then I read your
message after I had already posted my comment. Sorry.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MFilucci(at)aol.com |
Fellow Yak-ers, Chang-ers and all other enthusiasts:
The registration form for he Nebraska Fly-In is available on the YPA website
home page. The fee will be $50.00 for those participating in the training and
$25.00 for GIBs and all others.
See you there.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Craig Payne <cpayne(at)mc.net> |
ATPCFIMD(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> We planning on going to Columbus. Probably leave the 4th. Leaving from
> northern Illinois. Anyone wanting to fly along let me know.
> Bill Helvey
>
Bill,
Sounds like a plan. Maybe can plan an enroute intercept if we
coordinate. I'm not positive I can make it yet and not sure which
airport I'll be based at, ARR is likely if my hanger rental works out.
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar(at)gte.net> |
Subject: | Re: Phillips 25W-60 |
No Problem.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Phillips 25W-60
>
> At 10:39 AM 5/18/2002, you wrote:
> >
> >Remember my Red Star Oil Co. post. They supplied me with 1 gallon cases
for
> >30.34 per case.
>
> I read all the messages with the Phillips 25W60 subject then I read your
> message after I had already posted my comment. Sorry.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mark Jefferies , YAK UK Ltd" <yakuk(at)compuserve.com> |
This is for UK owners of YAK's apologies to those receiving this mail
outside of UK.
Just a pre warning for those of you that did not legally import your a/c
or those that gave bogusly low invoices on import.
Customs and Excise now look at ALL a/c coming to the UK register and
demand to see the import VAT paid document. Funny old thing that !! They
caught onto this about middle of last year I think.
If you have not "imported" it yet suggest you do and do not give fake
invoices as the values are known. You will have to show the VAT paid or
face paying it again. With the used vintage car import market (mainly
from USA) customs tell you the value of the car and irrespective of what
you paid you pay the value they think you should pay.
Best regards, Mark
M G Jefferies for
YAK UK Ltd www.yakuk.co.uk
Lt Gransden Airfield
Sandy, Beds
SG19 3BP England
Tel ## 44 (0)1767 651156 (fax 651157)
Mob ## 44 (0)7785 538317
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Subject: | Re: Chang lettering |
Do you know if he has lettering for an L-29?
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: <Skipsly(at)aol.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Chang lettering
>
> For anyone who wants a complete set of lettering for all of the access
panels
> for your Nanchang, Steve Petersen of Classic Fighters in Marlborough, New
> Zealand has a CD or a complete set already transferred onto vinyl that he
> will sell you for cost and shipping. Contact Steve at:
> steve.petersen(at)xtra.co.nz You can admire mine at Columbus, NB this June.
>
> Skip "Ranger" Slyfield
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Subject: | Cleveland Air Show |
All,
My wifes dad used to run the Cleveland air show for many years and is
still active with it and has invited me to bring my plane for Labor Day
weekend. I'm sure they wouldnt mind more planes, could I get a show of
hands on who else might be interested in going so I can see if he would
like to host more.
Ernie
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Craig Payne <cpayne(at)mc.net> |
Subject: | Re: Cleveland Air Show |
Ernie wrote:
>
>
> All,
>
> My wifes dad used to run the Cleveland air show for many years and is
> still active with it and has invited me to bring my plane for Labor Day
> weekend. I'm sure they wouldnt mind more planes, could I get a show of
> hands on who else might be interested in going so I can see if he would
> like to host more.
>
> Ernie
Heh, I could do that. I'm based near Chicago.
Craig Payne
________________________________________________________________________________
interface;
From: | GILLES BEDA <beda(at)NETCOURRIER.COM> |
Subject: | Re: Chang lettering |
DO YOU KNOW IF LETTERING FOR T34A
REGARDS
GILLES BEDA
BEDA GILLES
TEL FAX 33 1 42 05 05 49
E MAIL BEDA(at)NETCOURRIER.COM
NetCourrier, votre bureau virtuel sur Internet : Mail, Agenda, Clubs, Toolbar...
Web/Wap : www.netcourrier.com
Tlphone/Fax : 08 92 69 00 21 (0,34 TTC/min)
Minitel: 3615 NETCOURRIER (0,15 TTC/min)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Jim,
I understand you will be flying down on Fri. I'm here at Leeward Air
Ranch, would you like to rendevouz and fly down together??
Ernie
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jeff Linebaugh" <linedog(at)peoplepc.com> |
Thanks for the info on the 25W-60 folks...
The Phillips e-store was the first place I tried....glad that I wasn't the
only one that found it "down".
Purchasing from a company called Red Star... now that I can do...
Jeff Linebaugh
linedog(at)peoplepc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mark and Alison Haskell" <markally(at)gwi.net> |
Subject: | Wacky fuel guages |
Hey Y'all,
I've got a split in my fuel guages - the left side reads correctly, but
the right side shows 12 liters with the red light on (bottom of the
scale) no matter how much fuel is in there. Do these things get stuck
somehow, or am I into some electrical problems? (YAK-52)
By the way, my local FBO has been able to get me the Phillips 25W-60 for
a great price (equal to or less than the Phillips e-store) any time I
need it. It seems they get it through the local wholesale distributor
who makes deliveries regularly. It is definitely cheaper to buy the
bigger jugs - I buy 2 2.5 gallon jugs at a time, and then fill a few
quart containers to keep with me. A little bit of work, but
considerable savings. It sure makes me wish I had my own hangar,
though......
Thanks for the help once again!
Mark Haskell
"maineyak!"
YAK-52W N52MY
markally(at)gwi.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Cleveland Air Show |
In a message dated 5/19/02 11:19:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ernie(at)gscinc.com writes:
>
> My wifes dad used to run the Cleveland air show for many years and is
> still active with it and has invited me to bring my plane for Labor Day
> weekend. I'm sure they wouldnt mind more planes, could I get a show of
> hands on who else might be interested in going so I can see if he would
> like to host more.
Is that August 31- Sept. 1 in Cleveland??
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Miami Fly In |
In a message dated 5/19/02 2:25:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ernie(at)gscinc.com
writes:
>
> Jim,
>
> I understand you will be flying down on Fri. I'm here at Leeward Air
> Ranch, would you like to rendevouz and fly down together??
>
> Ernie
Yep. I was going to ask if you wanted to do that. I was planning to leave
Friday early to mid morning. I could met you over at OCF to tank up and
nonstop from there?
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Subject: | Re: Cleveland Air Show |
I'm not sure of the exact dates yet, but I know its over the labor day
weekend.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Cleveland Air Show
>
> In a message dated 5/19/02 11:19:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> ernie(at)gscinc.com writes:
>
>
> >
> > My wifes dad used to run the Cleveland air show for many years and is
> > still active with it and has invited me to bring my plane for Labor Day
> > weekend. I'm sure they wouldnt mind more planes, could I get a show of
> > hands on who else might be interested in going so I can see if he would
> > like to host more.
>
> Is that August 31- Sept. 1 in Cleveland??
>
> Jim Goolsby
> cjpilot710(at)aol.com
> 386-467-3313 voice
> 386-467-3193 fax
> 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
> a little safety, deserve neither liberty
nor
> safety"
> Benjamin Franklin 1759
> "There is no "innocence" in war. All
> collateral damage
> is acceptable."
> unk.
> "With my shield, or on it"
> Trojan Warriors BC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Subject: | Re: Miami Fly In |
Sounds good but, I mat have to leave in the afternoon since my wife wont be
home from work till around 4:00, ironically, she's is going to be in Ft
Lauderdale akk this week, but I dont have enough luggage room in the CJ to
bring her back from me, and I wanted to fly with her. She may be able to
come home on Thurs though, so we may be able to do it in the morning. I
suggest we touch base later in the week.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Miami Fly In
>
> In a message dated 5/19/02 2:25:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ernie(at)gscinc.com
> writes:
>
>
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> > I understand you will be flying down on Fri. I'm here at Leeward Air
> > Ranch, would you like to rendevouz and fly down together??
> >
> > Ernie
>
> Yep. I was going to ask if you wanted to do that. I was planning to
leave
> Friday early to mid morning. I could met you over at OCF to tank up and
> nonstop from there?
> Jim Goolsby
> cjpilot710(at)aol.com
> 386-467-3313 voice
> 386-467-3193 fax
> 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
> a little safety, deserve neither liberty
nor
> safety"
> Benjamin Franklin 1759
> "There is no "innocence" in war. All
> collateral damage
> is acceptable."
> unk.
> "With my shield, or on it"
> Trojan Warriors BC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Miami Fly In |
ROGER.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael DiMarco <mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Wings Over Miami |
Hope to see you all in Miami. My trek south from Oregon begins
(weather permiting) Wednesday and I hope to be in Miami Sunday. The
new home in Kissimmee isn't ready yet and they're boarding me at FEX.
So a little detour to Miami makes sense. I'll be the one with the
jetBlue rudder(Badda Bing, Badda Blue's tail that is).
Mike and China Blue
http://launch.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mark Jefferies , YAK UK Ltd" <yakuk(at)compuserve.com> |
All the panel labels required for the L-29 are on my web site, just down
load and enjoy sticking them on!!! send a donation if you wish :))
regards.
M G Jefferies for
YAK UK Ltd www.yakuk.co.uk/downloads.htm
Do you know if he has lettering for an L-29?
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: <Skipsly(at)aol.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Chang lettering
>
> For anyone who wants a complete set of lettering for all of the access
panels
> for your Nanchang, Steve Petersen of Classic Fighters in Marlborough,
New
> Zealand has a CD or a complete set already transferred onto vinyl that
he
> will sell you for cost and shipping. Contact Steve at:
> steve.petersen(at)xtra.co.nz You can admire mine at Columbus, NB this
June.
>
> Skip "Ranger" Slyfield
Best regards, Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 05/19/02 |
In a message dated 05/20/2002 3:57:39 AM Atlantic Daylight Time,
yak-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
> Do you know if he has lettering for an L-29?
>
I don't know, Ernie. You might Email him.
Sly
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Terry Calloway" <TCalloway(at)datatechnique.com> |
Hi Mike,
Just so there is no confusion in my planning, I though I should write this note
to clarify.
My intention is to receive a FAST Lead checkride at the YPA FAST Clinic in Columbus,
NB June 5-9. Is there any problem with this?
Will I need another recommendation ride or is the one I received in Greenwood not
valid either?
I plan on arriving on Thursday June 6. Is there any problem with this?
Thanks in advance, I am looking forward to getting this out of the way as quickly
and painless as possible upon arrival and moving on to other stuff?
tc
Terry L. Calloway MCNE, CDE
Data Technique, Inc.
P.O. Box 1301
3510 Airport Drive
Pittsburg, Kansas 66762
620.235.1000 Office
620.231.0990 Fax
620.231.6727 Home
620.249.9190 Mobile
501.277.3110 Wal-Mart Desk
tcalloway(at)datatechnique.com Email
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Subject: | Re: L-29 lettering |
Thanks very much, but I was hoping for the fuselage markings.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Jefferies , YAK UK Ltd" <yakuk(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Yak-List: L-29 lettering
>
> All the panel labels required for the L-29 are on my web site, just down
> load and enjoy sticking them on!!! send a donation if you wish :))
>
> regards.
> M G Jefferies for
> YAK UK Ltd www.yakuk.co.uk/downloads.htm
>
> Do you know if he has lettering for an L-29?
>
> Ernie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Skipsly(at)aol.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Chang lettering
>
>
> >
> > For anyone who wants a complete set of lettering for all of the access
> panels
> > for your Nanchang, Steve Petersen of Classic Fighters in Marlborough,
> New
> > Zealand has a CD or a complete set already transferred onto vinyl that
> he
> > will sell you for cost and shipping. Contact Steve at:
> > steve.petersen(at)xtra.co.nz You can admire mine at Columbus, NB this
> June.
> >
> > Skip "Ranger" Slyfield
>
> Best regards, Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "T.A. Lewis" <talewis(at)attbi.com> |
Hi All,
I just found the best air leak detector around. It is your kid's bubble
solution that you buy in any toy department. It has great surface tension,
so you brush it on with a small paint brush and it stays on long enough to
detect a leak.
Now a question: What are you all using for the moment arm for the tail cone
in the CJ? I got 224.4 in. from Bud Harrell But when I measured it myself I
get aprox. 231.5 in. to the middle of this area. I am putting about 31# of
lead shot back there and need to get it right.
Terry Lewis
======================================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Terry,
Would you have the measurements to the rest of the airplane in Inches? eg to
the radio positions and the rear and front seat, as well as the datum. If
so, could I have them?
Thanks
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "T.A. Lewis" <talewis(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Yak-List: moment arm
>
> Hi All,
> I just found the best air leak detector around. It is your kid's bubble
> solution that you buy in any toy department. It has great surface tension,
> so you brush it on with a small paint brush and it stays on long enough
to
> detect a leak.
>
> Now a question: What are you all using for the moment arm for the tail
cone
> in the CJ? I got 224.4 in. from Bud Harrell But when I measured it myself
I
> get aprox. 231.5 in. to the middle of this area. I am putting about 31# of
> lead shot back there and need to get it right.
> Terry Lewis
>
>
> ======================================================
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
Datum's are where you put them. A number of folks have used different zero
datum points on the CJ to obtain the same thing. You must becareful where
you start from. Some time ago Bud Harrell published the procedure that the
Chinese used. I found it a little confusing because most of us are not use
to using percentage of mean aerodynamic cord.
This is just me and what I learnd from the Bill Frezees when we were puting
my airpalne together out in DVT almost 9 years ago. He placed the zero datum
70" forward of the first vertical firewall. This puts the main gear at
128.75" from the datum. The nose wheel is 88.5 forward of the main gear.
This puts the allowable CG range between 111.2 and 116.1 inches.
The pilot is at 114.5"
GIB at 161.9"
Fuel 133.5"
Oil 57.0"
I have my ballast at 323.0 (the very end of tail)
This of course is not much help if you do not know where the empty CG is and
where its measured from.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Walt Lannon" <lannon(at)look.ca> |
Re; Yak-List; moment arm
Terry;
Depends on your reference datum. Using the forward face of the prop. spinner
retaining nut, with the aircraft longitudinally level, I install ballast at
317 inches. This is the center of the compartment forward of the one you are
refering to. I build support structure in that location and typically
install about 28 lbs. of lead sheet. Amount depends on other equipment /
ballast installed. To be accurate all measurements must be made parallel to
the longitudinal plane.
Walt Lannon
----- Original Message -----
From: "T.A. Lewis" <talewis(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Yak-List: moment arm
>
> Hi All,
> I just found the best air leak detector around. It is your kid's bubble
> solution that you buy in any toy department. It has great surface tension,
> so you brush it on with a small paint brush and it stays on long enough
to
> detect a leak.
>
> Now a question: What are you all using for the moment arm for the tail
cone
> in the CJ? I got 224.4 in. from Bud Harrell But when I measured it myself
I
> get aprox. 231.5 in. to the middle of this area. I am putting about 31# of
> lead shot back there and need to get it right.
> Terry Lewis
>
>
> ======================================================
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Exactly! What I'd like to do is be able to fly single pilot, minimum fuel no
baggage or 2 standard FAA passengers, full fuel and 100lbs of baggage and
still remain within a safe CG envelope at all times. And all without
removable balast. Is that currently possible with your plane???
Actually the more realistic scenarios are full fuel and single pilot or GIB
= 220 lbs GIF 155 LBS full fuel no baggage or GIB (wife) 110 lbs GIF 155lbs
full fuel and 100 lbs baggage.
I guess I'll just have to break out the tape measure and measure to all the
radios and weigh them and then run all the scenarios. I have someone here
who has scales also so I can weigh the plane.
I'm one of those people who completely confused by %MAC.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: moment arm
>
> Datum's are where you put them. A number of folks have used different
zero
> datum points on the CJ to obtain the same thing. You must becareful where
> you start from. Some time ago Bud Harrell published the procedure that
the
> Chinese used. I found it a little confusing because most of us are not
use
> to using percentage of mean aerodynamic cord.
> This is just me and what I learnd from the Bill Frezees when we were
puting
> my airpalne together out in DVT almost 9 years ago. He placed the zero
datum
> 70" forward of the first vertical firewall. This puts the main gear at
> 128.75" from the datum. The nose wheel is 88.5 forward of the main gear.
> This puts the allowable CG range between 111.2 and 116.1 inches.
> The pilot is at 114.5"
> GIB at 161.9"
> Fuel 133.5"
> Oil 57.0"
> I have my ballast at 323.0 (the very end of tail)
> This of course is not much help if you do not know where the empty CG is
and
> where its measured from.
>
> Jim Goolsby
> cjpilot710(at)aol.com
> 386-467-3313 voice
> 386-467-3193 fax
> 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
> a little safety, deserve neither liberty
nor
> safety"
> Benjamin Franklin 1759
> "There is no "innocence" in war. All
> collateral damage
> is acceptable."
> unk.
> "With my shield, or on it"
> Trojan Warriors BC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Coffey, John" <john.coffey(at)attws.com> |
Does anyone know why the manufacturers use %MAC instead of some simple
physical element of the airframe structure (e.g. firewall location, spar
carry through location etc.)
There must be some benefit in using an abstract datum like MAC instead of
something physical? What's the benefit?
-----Original Message-----
From: Ernie [mailto:ernie(at)gscinc.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: moment arm
Exactly! What I'd like to do is be able to fly single pilot, minimum fuel no
baggage or 2 standard FAA passengers, full fuel and 100lbs of baggage and
still remain within a safe CG envelope at all times. And all without
removable balast. Is that currently possible with your plane???
Actually the more realistic scenarios are full fuel and single pilot or GIB
= 220 lbs GIF 155 LBS full fuel no baggage or GIB (wife) 110 lbs GIF 155lbs
full fuel and 100 lbs baggage.
I guess I'll just have to break out the tape measure and measure to all the
radios and weigh them and then run all the scenarios. I have someone here
who has scales also so I can weigh the plane.
I'm one of those people who completely confused by %MAC.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: moment arm
>
> Datum's are where you put them. A number of folks have used different
zero
> datum points on the CJ to obtain the same thing. You must becareful where
> you start from. Some time ago Bud Harrell published the procedure that
the
> Chinese used. I found it a little confusing because most of us are not
use
> to using percentage of mean aerodynamic cord.
> This is just me and what I learnd from the Bill Frezees when we were
puting
> my airpalne together out in DVT almost 9 years ago. He placed the zero
datum
> 70" forward of the first vertical firewall. This puts the main gear at
> 128.75" from the datum. The nose wheel is 88.5 forward of the main gear.
> This puts the allowable CG range between 111.2 and 116.1 inches.
> The pilot is at 114.5"
> GIB at 161.9"
> Fuel 133.5"
> Oil 57.0"
> I have my ballast at 323.0 (the very end of tail)
> This of course is not much help if you do not know where the empty CG is
and
> where its measured from.
>
> Jim Goolsby
> cjpilot710(at)aol.com
> 386-467-3313 voice
> 386-467-3193 fax
> 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
> a little safety, deserve neither liberty
nor
> safety"
> Benjamin Franklin 1759
> "There is no "innocence" in war. All
> collateral damage
> is acceptable."
> unk.
> "With my shield, or on it"
> Trojan Warriors BC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Mean aerodynamic chord |
At 05:02 PM 5/20/2002, you wrote:
>
>Does anyone know why the manufacturers use %MAC instead of some simple
>physical element of the airframe structure (e.g. firewall location, spar
>carry through location etc.)
>
>There must be some benefit in using an abstract datum like MAC instead of
>something physical? What's the benefit?
The center of lift for the wing is relative to the MAC so you have to use
that when you are figuring out the moment of the average lift
vector. Since that is the real starting point for figuring out whether or
not the airplane is "balanced" you might as well keep using it for the rest
of the calculations.
Here are some interesting references on the net:
Simple:
http://www.lferc.org/tips/mean_aerodynamic_chord.htm
Detailed (from 1942):
http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1942/naca-report-751/
It is just another datum.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Craig Payne <cpayne(at)mc.net> |
Ernie wrote:
>
>
> Exactly! What I'd like to do is be able to fly single pilot, minimum fuel no
> baggage or 2 standard FAA passengers, full fuel and 100lbs of baggage and
> still remain within a safe CG envelope at all times. And all without
> removable balast. Is that currently possible with your plane???
>
> Actually the more realistic scenarios are full fuel and single pilot or GIB
> = 220 lbs GIF 155 LBS full fuel no baggage or GIB (wife) 110 lbs GIF 155lbs
> full fuel and 100 lbs baggage.
Ernie,
I have the M14P in my CJ but I adjusted for the same CG with weight. I
can fly solo, with heavy mil chute, min fuel, no GIB or baggage OR with
full fuel, 75 lbs baggage, 250+ lbs of Russ Dycus on a mil chute. It's
really hard to get the CJ out of the envelope unless you really junk it
up into a Chinese Mooney.
But then I'm not really referring to anybody I know.....
Craig Payne
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
And this is with all the radios out and aprox 25 Lbs in the tail....correct?
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <cpayne(at)mc.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: moment arm
>
> Ernie wrote:
> >
> >
> > Exactly! What I'd like to do is be able to fly single pilot, minimum
fuel no
> > baggage or 2 standard FAA passengers, full fuel and 100lbs of baggage
and
> > still remain within a safe CG envelope at all times. And all without
> > removable balast. Is that currently possible with your plane???
> >
> > Actually the more realistic scenarios are full fuel and single pilot or
GIB
> > = 220 lbs GIF 155 LBS full fuel no baggage or GIB (wife) 110 lbs GIF
155lbs
> > full fuel and 100 lbs baggage.
>
> Ernie,
>
> I have the M14P in my CJ but I adjusted for the same CG with weight. I
> can fly solo, with heavy mil chute, min fuel, no GIB or baggage OR with
> full fuel, 75 lbs baggage, 250+ lbs of Russ Dycus on a mil chute. It's
> really hard to get the CJ out of the envelope unless you really junk it
> up into a Chinese Mooney.
>
> But then I'm not really referring to anybody I know.....
>
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
At 08:34 PM 5/20/2002, you wrote:
>
>And this is with all the radios out and aprox 25 Lbs in the tail....correct?
Yes. With me (200lb), my chute, and any amount of fuel, I am just inside
the forward CG limit. I once had a 270 lb guy in my back seat so I did a
W&B. No where near the rear limit.
The CG range of the CJ6A is pretty wide.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Alber <john(at)johnalber.com> |
Subject: | Yak 52 Sighting Device |
Has anyone seen a sighting device (i.e. external attitude reference gauge used
for aerobatics) installed on a Yak 52? If so, how was it installed?
Thanks.
John Alber
John Alber
john(at)johnalber.com
Home 618-675-3553
Work 314-259-2144
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
With the Huosai engine I put 37 lbs of ballast aft to compensate for the
radios and ADF. I also have a very simple, lightweight baggage compartment.
When I went to the M-14P my ballast went up to 51 lbs, spread out over
various spots in the tail.
I'll send you a W&B chart I used for the Huosai if I can find it.
Craig Payne
And this is with all the radios out and aprox 25 Lbs in the tail....correct?
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <cpayne(at)mc.net>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Mean aerodynamic chord |
In a message dated 5/20/02 9:32:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brian(at)lloyd.com
writes:
>
> The center of lift for the wing is relative to the MAC so you have to use
> that when you are figuring out the moment of the average lift
> vector. Since that is the real starting point for figuring out whether or
> not the airplane is "balanced" you might as well keep using it for the rest
> of the calculations.
Correct me Oh mighty Brain (AKA "Sparkly") and any other real aerodynamicist.
The center of lift changes with angle of attack. CG changes with basically
fuel burn off. Although the center of lift should stay in a certain range,
the "center of pressure" is determined by the general layout by the designer.
(i.e.,' the greater the distance the center of pressure from the CG the more
stable in pitch the airplane). While the CG and airfoil center of lift need
to be quite close, would seem to me it is easier to figure CG from a zero
datum than a % of MAC. I understand both, just its easier for me to
comprehend inches from a datum.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain.
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Mean aerodynamic chord |
In a message dated 5/21/02 4:19:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
cjpilot710(at)aol.com writes:
>
> Correct me Oh mighty Brain (AKA "Sparkly") and any other real
> aerodynamicist.
> The center of lift changes with angle of attack. CG changes with basically
> fuel burn off. Although the center of lift should stay in a certain range,
> the "center of pressure" is determined by the general layout by the
> designer.
> (i.e.,' the greater the distance the center of pressure from the CG the
> more
> stable in pitch the airplane). While the CG and airfoil center of lift
> need
> to be quite close, would seem to me it is easier to figure CG from a zero
> datum than a % of MAC. I understand both, just its easier for me to
> comprehend inches from a datum
As I hit the send button, I knew opps!!! Here I am think C/L (which is
Coefficient/Lift) - NOT center of lift! The "center of pressure" (center of
lift) for the AIRFOIL may move around 5% or so after positive angles of
attack and most of the time its back around the 24 to 30% of MAC. The center
of pressure for the entire airframe needs to be behind this another 8% for
normal Cessna type pitch stability.
I stand corrected.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Sighting Device |
In a message dated 5/21/02 5:58:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
john(at)johnalber.com writes:
> Has anyone seen a sighting device (i.e. external attitude reference gauge
> used for aerobatics) installed on a Yak 52? If so, how was it installed?
>
>
John,
All the ones I've seen were home made set ups.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR(at)ci.boulder.co.us> |
Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Sighting Device |
Yes sir; I designed and built one for each side of my -52 when I had it.
It installed on each wing tip where there is a round 4 screw inspection
plate and to a site I believe was just aft where I installed 4 nut plates.
The sight looked like this "4" with two legs. I believe George Coy may
have them, I think it was he that took them off NX52CG. Regards, Rick
>>> john(at)johnalber.com 05/21/02 03:58AM >>>
Has anyone seen a sighting device (i.e. external attitude reference gauge
used for aerobatics) installed on a Yak 52? If so, how was it installed?
Thanks.
John Alber
John Alber
john(at)johnalber.com
Home 618-675-3553
Work 314-259-2144
---------------------------------
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
yak-list(at)matronics.com wrote:
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Re: Yak-List: Mean aerodynamic chord
In a message dated 5/21/02 4:19:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
cjpilot710(at)aol.com writes:
>
> Correct me Oh mighty Brain (AKA "Sparkly") and any other real
> aerodynamicist.
> The center of lift changes with angle of attack. CG changes with basically
> fuel burn off. Although the center of lift should stay in a certain range,
> the "center of pressure" is determined by the general layout by the
> designer.
> (i.e.,' the greater the distance the center of pressure from the CG the
> more
> stable in pitch the airplane). While the CG and airfoil center of lift
> need
> to be quite close,
Jim,
I believe that Center of Pressure calculations are based on the wing at
the design cruise CL, or .2, which for the CJ is about a 2-4% angle of
attack. Same as a Bonnanza or most Cessnas. A CJ flying at design lift
will also be at minimum induced drag (Grasshopper: Another Speed Secret)
Brain, oops, Brian should see this on his AOA indicator when trimmed out
"on the step".
Craig "You can't pass me" Payne
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Mean aerodynamic chord |
At 01:18 PM 5/21/2002, you wrote:
>
> > The center of lift for the wing is relative to the MAC so you have to use
> > that when you are figuring out the moment of the average lift
> > vector. Since that is the real starting point for figuring out whether or
> > not the airplane is "balanced" you might as well keep using it for the
> rest
> > of the calculations.
>
>Correct me Oh mighty Brain (AKA "Sparkly")
Brain or Sparky, either will do.
>and any other real aerodynamicist.
I'm not real. I'm just a figment of your imagination.
> The center of lift changes with angle of attack.
Does it? I wasn't aware that it does. Lift changes with change in AoA but
I wasn't aware that the center of lift changes.
>CG changes with basically fuel burn off.
CG changes whenever you change a mass and/or its moment arm. If the fuel
tank is on the CG, fuel burn off will not change the CG.
>Although the center of lift should stay in a certain range,
>the "center of pressure" is determined by the general layout by the designer.
That is true.
>(i.e.,' the greater the distance the center of pressure from the CG the more
>stable in pitch the airplane).
The farther the CP is aft of the CG the more stable the aircraft is. For
example, increasing the size of the tail feathers, i.e. vertical stab and
horizontal stab, moves the CP aft probably without materially affecting the CG
>While the CG and airfoil center of lift need to be quite close,
The center of lift is normally aft of the CG thus developing a nose-down
torque which is countered by the downward lift of the HS generating an
identical nose-up torque. All the torques due to forces (lifts and
weights) must sum to zero or you get acceleration of rotation about the
relevant axis.
>would seem to me it is easier to figure CG from a zero
>datum than a % of MAC. I understand both, just its easier for me to
>comprehend inches from a datum.
Me too. But the designer has to estimate where the center of lift will
come from. He/she knows where it will come from relative to the airfoil
section chosen but unless the wing is straight, constant chord, constant
airfoil section, and no washout, the apparent center of lift will be
somewhere else. OTOH, it is usually in the vicinity of the MAC so that is
a good starting point for balancing the forces of the airplane.
Yes, it is time for someone to point out the distribution of lift across
the wing but you have to simplify it somewhere or you end up solving
differential equations all over the place.
It would be nice if someone just gave the station for the center of the MAC
as well as its length so that percent of MAC can translate directly into
station and CG range.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Walt Lannon" <lannon(at)look.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Mean aerodynamic chord |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Mean aerodynamic chord
>
> At 01:18 PM 5/21/2002, you wrote:
> >
> > > The center of lift for the wing is relative to the MAC so you have to
use
> > > that when you are figuring out the moment of the average lift
> > > vector. Since that is the real starting point for figuring out
whether or
> > > not the airplane is "balanced" you might as well keep using it for the
> > rest
> > > of the calculations.
> >
> >Correct me Oh mighty Brain (AKA "Sparkly")
>
> Brain or Sparky, either will do.
>
> >and any other real aerodynamicist.
>
> I'm not real. I'm just a figment of your imagination.
>
> > The center of lift changes with angle of attack.
>
> Does it? I wasn't aware that it does. Lift changes with change in AoA
but
> I wasn't aware that the center of lift changes.
>
> >CG changes with basically fuel burn off.
>
> CG changes whenever you change a mass and/or its moment arm. If the fuel
> tank is on the CG, fuel burn off will not change the CG.
>
> >Although the center of lift should stay in a certain range,
> >the "center of pressure" is determined by the general layout by the
designer.
>
> That is true.
>
> >(i.e.,' the greater the distance the center of pressure from the CG the
more
> >stable in pitch the airplane).
>
> The farther the CP is aft of the CG the more stable the aircraft is. For
> example, increasing the size of the tail feathers, i.e. vertical stab and
> horizontal stab, moves the CP aft probably without materially affecting
the CG
>
> >While the CG and airfoil center of lift need to be quite close,
>
> The center of lift is normally aft of the CG thus developing a nose-down
> torque which is countered by the downward lift of the HS generating an
> identical nose-up torque. All the torques due to forces (lifts and
> weights) must sum to zero or you get acceleration of rotation about the
> relevant axis.
>
> >would seem to me it is easier to figure CG from a zero
> >datum than a % of MAC. I understand both, just its easier for me to
> >comprehend inches from a datum.
>
> Me too. But the designer has to estimate where the center of lift will
> come from. He/she knows where it will come from relative to the airfoil
> section chosen but unless the wing is straight, constant chord, constant
> airfoil section, and no washout, the apparent center of lift will be
> somewhere else. OTOH, it is usually in the vicinity of the MAC so that is
> a good starting point for balancing the forces of the airplane.
>
> Yes, it is time for someone to point out the distribution of lift across
> the wing but you have to simplify it somewhere or you end up solving
> differential equations all over the place.
>Subject; Mean Aerodynamic Chord
Brian wrote;
> It would be nice if someone just gave the station for the center of the
MAC
> as well as its length so that percent of MAC can translate directly into
> station and CG range.
>
> Brian
Someone did that. It is in the CJ Technical Specs. Manual. Pg. 6, Fig. 1.3.
Requires some interpretation but it's all there.
Cheers;
Walt Lannon
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mark Jefferies , YAK UK Ltd" <yakuk(at)compuserve.com> |
Ladies and gents.
Do excuse me, I know advertising is frowned upon but I thought that the
YAK community may like to know more about the YAK 12 so to that end last
night I made a small web page with details and pictures of the said
beast. The YAK 11 cruise is 200 kts, the next in line was the YAK 12
with a cruise of 90 kts !! Anyway these YAK 12's can lift 4 people and
have very large baggage space, basically a mobile home at "home in the
air"
the link is http://www.yakuk.co.uk/yak12pics.htm
Best regards, Mark
M G Jefferies for
YAK UK Ltd www.yakuk.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Can I join YPA online, or do I have to mail the form in with a check?
Ernie
________________________________________________________________________________
Ernie,
You can join through the web site (I believe) www.yakpilots.org
You can mail in the form with a check
Craig Payne
Can I join YPA online, or do I have to mail the form in with a check?
Ernie
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MFilucci(at)aol.com |
Ernie,
There are a couple of way you can sign up with the Yak Pilots Association.
1) Online via PayPal (www.paypal.com). You can set up a personal account with
PayPal, selecting yakpilots(at)yakpilots.org as the email recipient. This is the
only secure, online method we have available.
2) Via fax or mail using a check or credit card. Download the membership
application form from the YPA website (www.yakpilots.org) and mail or fax the
form with check or credit card info to the YPA address.
Regards,
Mike Filucci
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "dabear" <dabear(at)damned.org> |
Subject: | Re: YPA membership |
Ernie,
Don't do it! Don't join YPA. You will only have years of fun, meet
great people, get good instruction, and other horrible things.
Don't say you were not warned!
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com>
Subject: Yak-List: YPA membership
>
> Can I join YPA online, or do I have to mail the form in with a
check?
>
> Ernie
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
At 11:48 PM 5/21/2002, you wrote:
>
>
>Ladies and gents.
>
>Do excuse me, I know advertising is frowned upon
Only by some. I think most of us want to know what is out there for sale,
who has it, and how much they are asking for it. The key here is
"tastefully done."
>but I thought that the
>YAK community may like to know more about the YAK 12 so to that end last
>
>the link is http://www.yakuk.co.uk/yak12pics.htm
Thanks Mark. Your approach of calling attention to the information and
then allowing others to go get the information if they are so inclined is
great.
Cool airplane. It looks like an Aeronca Chief on steroids. Never let it
be said that the Russians couldn't take anything and make it
bigger. :
) It looks like just the thing to use as a support aircraft for
a group of Yak/CJ drivers going someplace.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Terry Calloway" <tcalloway(at)datatechnique.com> |
Found on the web.
http://www.kiwiaircraftimages.com/pages/wancj6e.html
Skip is this the one's you saw?
tc
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Hal Morley" <yakjock(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | A large "Thanks"! |
This last weekend about a dozen of us in 52's and CJ's participated in
the CAF West Coast Formation Clinic at Castle AFB in Merced. A good
weekend although the weather kept some of us from getting home for
another two days.
I had developed a persistent oil leak, and flew over to Marina, CA to
get some help from Jim Selby and Kevin Soto at their facility. It is
always such a pleasure to meet really good people that I wanted to
spread the news a bit. Kevin, Jim and Vivian Selby took really great
care of me and "8" and by the time I left the plane was back in great
shape and I'd had a chance to spend some time with classy people.
Hal ( I didn't realize a half-cup of oil well spread could look like the
Exxon Valdez was there) Morley
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "dabear" <dabear(at)damned.org> |
We should have the YPA get one to fly the staff around to the
fly-ins! Also it could carry around a bunch of Yak/CJ first aid
parts just in case as well.
Regards,
Al DeVere
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK 12
>
> At 11:48 PM 5/21/2002, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Ladies and gents.
> >
> >Do excuse me, I know advertising is frowned upon
>
> Only by some. I think most of us want to know what is out there
for sale,
> who has it, and how much they are asking for it. The key here is
> "tastefully done."
>
> >but I thought that the
> >YAK community may like to know more about the YAK 12 so to that
end last
> >
> >the link is http://www.yakuk.co.uk/yak12pics.htm
>
> Thanks Mark. Your approach of calling attention to the
information and
> then allowing others to go get the information if they are so
inclined is
> great.
>
> Cool airplane. It looks like an Aeronca Chief on steroids. Never
let it
> be said that the Russians couldn't take anything and make it
> bigger. :
) It looks like just the thing to use as a support
aircraft for
> a group of Yak/CJ drivers going someplace.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
=====
of
>
=====
messages.
members.
>
=====
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/yak-list
>
=====
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Coffman" <bill(at)wmcoffman.com> |
Subject: | Landing Gear Struts |
I am a new Yak 52 owner and have been working through the differences of
working on a foreign airplane. I need to add air to the gear struts.
Obviously my American schrader fitting on my nitrogen tank does not fit.
I would like to know how others have approached this.
By the way, if the weather is good I will be in Miami for the fly-in.
Thanks,
Bill Coffman
St. Petersburg, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Terry Calloway" <TCalloway(at)datatechnique.com> |
If that is the case then Barry will have to chip in the largest amount.
tc
>>> dabear(at)damned.org 05/22/02 01:59PM >>>
We should have the YPA get one to fly the staff around to the
fly-ins! Also it could carry around a bunch of Yak/CJ first aid
parts just in case as well.
Regards,
Al DeVere
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK 12
>
> At 11:48 PM 5/21/2002, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Ladies and gents.
> >
> >Do excuse me, I know advertising is frowned upon
>
> Only by some. I think most of us want to know what is out there
for sale,
> who has it, and how much they are asking for it. The key here is
> "tastefully done."
>
> >but I thought that the
> >YAK community may like to know more about the YAK 12 so to that
end last
> >
> >the link is http://www.yakuk.co.uk/yak12pics.htm
>
> Thanks Mark. Your approach of calling attention to the
information and
> then allowing others to go get the information if they are so
inclined is
> great.
>
> Cool airplane. It looks like an Aeronca Chief on steroids. Never
let it
> be said that the Russians couldn't take anything and make it
> bigger. :
) It looks like just the thing to use as a support
aircraft for
> a group of Yak/CJ drivers going someplace.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com> |
No, what we need is a AN-14, NATO name CLOD (really!) Its a STOL twin,
powered by 2 M14B engines, with 3 blade props. Fuse looks like an egg,
clamshell doors in the back, could drive a small jeep inside. I suggest
this aircraft as I am afraid Barry would quickly gross the single engine Yak
12 out with his parts needs. Only 6-8
flying in the world, I just found one in Russia, with overhauled engines. I
think I'd look rather rakish, screaming along at a mind numbing 110 kts
burning 35ghp!! Oh my aching wallet!
Always yakin,
Doug Sapp
----- Original Message -----
From: "dabear" <dabear(at)damned.org>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK 12
>
> We should have the YPA get one to fly the staff around to the
> fly-ins! Also it could carry around a bunch of Yak/CJ first aid
> parts just in case as well.
>
> Regards,
>
> Al DeVere
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK 12
>
>
> >
> > At 11:48 PM 5/21/2002, you wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >Ladies and gents.
> > >
> > >Do excuse me, I know advertising is frowned upon
> >
> > Only by some. I think most of us want to know what is out there
> for sale,
> > who has it, and how much they are asking for it. The key here is
> > "tastefully done."
> >
> > >but I thought that the
> > >YAK community may like to know more about the YAK 12 so to that
> end last
> > >
> > >the link is http://www.yakuk.co.uk/yak12pics.htm
> >
> > Thanks Mark. Your approach of calling attention to the
> information and
> > then allowing others to go get the information if they are so
> inclined is
> > great.
> >
> > Cool airplane. It looks like an Aeronca Chief on steroids. Never
> let it
> > be said that the Russians couldn't take anything and make it
> > bigger. :
) It looks like just the thing to use as a support
> aircraft for
> > a group of Yak/CJ drivers going someplace.
> >
> >
> > Brian Lloyd
> > brian(at)lloyd.com
> > +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> > +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> >
> >
> =====
> of
> >
> =====
> messages.
> members.
> >
> =====
> >
> =====
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "dabear" <dabear(at)damned.org> |
We could just call it the BHMRT.
Regards,
Al DeVere
Barry Hancock Memorial Repair Kit.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Calloway" <TCalloway(at)datatechnique.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK 12
>
> If that is the case then Barry will have to chip in the largest
amount.
> tc
>
> >>> dabear(at)damned.org 05/22/02 01:59PM >>>
>
> We should have the YPA get one to fly the staff around to the
> fly-ins! Also it could carry around a bunch of Yak/CJ first aid
> parts just in case as well.
>
> Regards,
>
> Al DeVere
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK 12
>
>
> >
> > At 11:48 PM 5/21/2002, you wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >Ladies and gents.
> > >
> > >Do excuse me, I know advertising is frowned upon
> >
> > Only by some. I think most of us want to know what is out there
> for sale,
> > who has it, and how much they are asking for it. The key here
is
> > "tastefully done."
> >
> > >but I thought that the
> > >YAK community may like to know more about the YAK 12 so to that
> end last
> > >
> > >the link is http://www.yakuk.co.uk/yak12pics.htm
> >
> > Thanks Mark. Your approach of calling attention to the
> information and
> > then allowing others to go get the information if they are so
> inclined is
> > great.
> >
> > Cool airplane. It looks like an Aeronca Chief on steroids.
Never
> let it
> > be said that the Russians couldn't take anything and make it
> > bigger. :
) It looks like just the thing to use as a support
> aircraft for
> > a group of Yak/CJ drivers going someplace.
> >
> >
> > Brian Lloyd
> > brian(at)lloyd.com
>
>
=====
of
>
=====
messages.
members.
>
=====
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/yak-list
>
=====
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Elliott, Patrick" <patrick.elliott(at)attws.com> |
Photo at
http://hep2.physics.arizona.edu/~savin/ram/an-14-www18pair.jpg
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug [mailto:rvfltd(at)televar.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK 12
No, what we need is a AN-14, NATO name CLOD (really!) Its a STOL twin,
powered by 2 M14B engines, with 3 blade props. Fuse looks like an egg,
clamshell doors in the back, could drive a small jeep inside. I suggest
this aircraft as I am afraid Barry would quickly gross the single engine Yak
12 out with his parts needs. Only 6-8
flying in the world, I just found one in Russia, with overhauled engines. I
think I'd look rather rakish, screaming along at a mind numbing 110 kts
burning 35ghp!! Oh my aching wallet!
Always yakin,
Doug Sapp
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
At 01:00 PM 5/22/2002, you wrote:
>
>We could just call it the BHMRT.
>
>Barry Hancock Memorial Repair Kit.
That just doesn't have the right ring to it. Since it will be hauling lots
of ... uh ... stuff, I propose just calling it the Yak-12 GT. I got the
idea from the Mercedes Benz GT that was reviewed many years ago in one of
the automotive rags, e.g. Road and Track, Car and Driver, etc. Performance
as compared to the usual crop of Gran Turismo cars wasn't stellar but it
fit its own mission profile very well.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
Doug,
Any pics? I kinda like the Fat, Hairy kind myself, it's so, so..Russian.
Craig Payne
No, what we need is a AN-14, NATO name CLOD (really!) Its a STOL twin,
powered by 2 M14B engines, with 3 blade props. Fuse looks like an egg,
clamshell doors in the back, could drive a small jeep inside. I suggest
this aircraft as I am afraid Barry would quickly gross the single engine Yak
12 out with his parts needs. Only 6-8
flying in the world, I just found one in Russia, with overhauled engines. I
think I'd look rather rakish, screaming along at a mind numbing 110 kts
burning 35ghp!! Oh my aching wallet!
Always yakin,
Doug Sapp
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com> |
Subject: | Re: AN-14 Pics?? |
Photo at
http://hep2.physics.arizona.edu/~savin/ram/an-14-www18pair.jpg Thanks to
the posting by Pat Elliott
This is not the same aircraft, but it will give you the idea.
Always Yakin,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: <cpayne(at)mc.net>
Subject: Yak-List: AN-14 Pics??
>
> Doug,
>
> Any pics? I kinda like the Fat, Hairy kind myself, it's so, so..Russian.
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
> No, what we need is a AN-14, NATO name CLOD (really!) Its a STOL twin,
> powered by 2 M14B engines, with 3 blade props. Fuse looks like an egg,
> clamshell doors in the back, could drive a small jeep inside. I suggest
> this aircraft as I am afraid Barry would quickly gross the single engine
Yak
> 12 out with his parts needs. Only 6-8
> flying in the world, I just found one in Russia, with overhauled engines.
I
> think I'd look rather rakish, screaming along at a mind numbing 110 kts
> burning 35ghp!! Oh my aching wallet!
>
> Always yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
Just took a look at the AN-14. I LIKE IT!!!!!!
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Samuel Sax" <cd001633(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Landing Gear Struts |
Bill,
Glad to see you are planning to join us for our Memorial Day Warbirds Fly-in
at the Wings-Over-Miami Museum (www.wingsovermiami.com) . The Managing
Director, Vince Tirado, happened to own a Yak-52 and is probably the most
experienced Yak/CJ mechanic in our neck of the woods. I trust he can get
you gear struts pumped up real easy.
Hope to see you at TMB,
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Coffman
Subject: Yak-List: Landing Gear Struts
I am a new Yak 52 owner and have been working through the differences of
working on a foreign airplane. I need to add air to the gear struts.
Obviously my American schrader fitting on my nitrogen tank does not fit.
I would like to know how others have approached this.
By the way, if the weather is good I will be in Miami for the fly-in.
Thanks,
Bill Coffman
St. Petersburg, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | YakPilot27(at)cs.com |
Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Struts |
Based on the information I have for the Yak-52, mains should be 19 Kg./ Sq.
Cm. which is 270 Lbs./Sq. In. with an extension of 205 mm. which is 8.1 In.
Nose should be 26 Kg./Sq. Cm. which is 370 Lbs./Sq. In. with an extension of
131 mm. which is 5.2 In. Be sure to check my conversion math. Anybody else
have different information?
Bob M.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG(at)Cairnwood.com> |
Subject: | Landing Gear Struts |
Bill:
My 52 came with support gear that included hose fittings for landing gear.
I cut the hose and added a US standard fitting. I use nitrogen for the
struts. Somewhere between 350 and 400 phi will give you what you want.
Contact me off line and I will review the procedure in detail if you want.
Reade Genzlinger
Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation
215.914.0370
readeg(at)cairnwood.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Coffman [mailto:bill(at)wmcoffman.com]
Subject: Yak-List: Landing Gear Struts
I am a new Yak 52 owner and have been working through the differences of
working on a foreign airplane. I need to add air to the gear struts.
Obviously my American schrader fitting on my nitrogen tank does not fit.
I would like to know how others have approached this.
By the way, if the weather is good I will be in Miami for the fly-in.
Thanks,
Bill Coffman
St. Petersburg, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | brian olofsson <brian060901(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Landing Gear Struts |
Bill: Paul @ Lake Village has made a gauge/valve that allows you to add/set the
pressure in the struts exactly. Unfortuneately it's alittle pricey, let me know
if you might be interested and I'll send you His number. Brian
Bill,
Glad to see you are planning to join us for our Memorial Day Warbirds Fly-in
at the Wings-Over-Miami Museum (www.wingsovermiami.com) . The Managing
Director, Vince Tirado, happened to own a Yak-52 and is probably the most
experienced Yak/CJ mechanic in our neck of the woods. I trust he can get
you gear struts pumped up real easy.
Hope to see you at TMB,
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Coffman
Subject: Yak-List: Landing Gear Struts
I am a new Yak 52 owner and have been working through the differences of
working on a foreign airplane. I need to add air to the gear struts.
Obviously my American schrader fitting on my nitrogen tank does not fit.
I would like to know how others have approached this.
By the way, if the weather is good I will be in Miami for the fly-in.
Thanks,
Bill Coffman
St. Petersburg, FL
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Alternators VS Generator |
Yaksters;
I've got to add some weight to the tail or remove some from the nose of
my 52. I've heard the alternator retrofit will save around 30Lbs. Who
sells this retrofit, what's it cost, any pro's or cons and where do I
get it?
Thanks in advance
Frank
Chino
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | FLYBOY886(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Alternators VS Generator |
Frank,
Just curious. Why do you want to add weight in the tail of a 52?
John Bertelli
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Alternators VS Generator |
John;
I've removed all of the Russian Radios and nav gear from behind the rear
seat. Though I haven't done my weight and balance yet, I suspect I'll be
a little nose heavy. Just getting my ducks in a row.
That brings up a question.
I want to calculate by hand the CG. For the 52, the moment arm datum is
supposed to be 6.77"-12.9" forward of FUSLAGE STATION #5? What the heck
does that mean? 6.77 minus 12.9 gives me a delta of 6.13" or the CG
range. But from where does that CG range eminate? In other words, where
are the endpoints? Do I have to go forward of FS 5 by 6.77" and then use
that as my most forward CG limit?
Frank
Chino
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
FLYBOY886(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Alternators VS Generator
Frank,
Just curious. Why do you want to add weight in the tail of a 52?
John Bertelli
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Wes Warner <wes(at)lppcs.com> |
Subject: | Re: Alternators VS Generator |
Frank,
http://bandcspecialty.com/ has alternators for the M14's.
Wes
>
> Yaksters;
> I've got to add some weight to the tail or remove some from the nose of
> my 52. I've heard the alternator retrofit will save around 30Lbs. Who
> sells this retrofit, what's it cost, any pro's or cons and where do I
> get it?
> Thanks in advance
> Frank
> Chino
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael DiMarco <mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Mean aerodynamic chord |
One thing to look for before anyone puts weight in the back of a
stock CJ is to check inches LE of MaC versus % LE of MaC. The
manuals refer to % where the range is 17-24. Yet some smart
industrious refurbishers have converted percent to inches and that
range is (memory here fails me) around 10-17 inches. So, if your
adding weight because your C.G. is 15 or 11 you best check to be sure
if you're talking inches or percent.
As best I know from asking around, no stock CJ needs weight in the
tail (in elevator for balance maybe, but....). So check the apples
and oranges are in the right pile.
Mike
China Blue
http://launch.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Walt Lannon" <lannon(at)look.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Mean aerodynamic chord |
Subject; Mean Aerodynamic Chord
Mike
You are correct, the stock CJ does not need any weight in the tail. However
"stock" means that all of the original avionics and associated electrical
equipment is still installed. If you remove all of it including the
redundant wiring you are taking out 195 lbs of equipment. This does not
include the original battery weight.
This reduces the total aircraft moment by a signifigant amount that must be
reinstated by installation of other equipment and/or fixed ballast.
If you were to consider fixed ballast only you would need something on the
order of 75 lbs in the tail. That would be completely unacceptable for
structural reasons and would introduce a moment of inertia change that may
make spins unrecoverable.
Using an imperical method (translation WAG - wild assed guess) I, and other
restorers, have settled on about 25 to 28 lbs. in the tail as a maximum. The
balance of the moment is made up by other installations eg: battery
relocation, air compressor, reserve air tank, baggage compartment structure,
ELT, etc. etc.
MAC % vs inches from MAC LE is really immaterial. As pointed out in earlier
posts % MAC is the aerodynamicist's tool. It must be converted to
measureable units. However, there is no PRACTICAL way to measure directly
from the LE of the MAC. This is done by establishing a reference point (the
Datum), preferably in front of the aircraft in order to simplify the
arithmetic, which is easy to access. All of the information needed to
accomplish this is in the Tech. Specs. Manual,
pg. 5 & 6. It is metric of course and the drawing needs some careful study
to fully understand but it is all there.
I would recommend that you do not remove or add any signifigant weight until
you are prepared to do a proper weight and balance.
Walt Lannon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael DiMarco" <mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Mean aerodynamic chord
>
> One thing to look for before anyone puts weight in the back of a
> stock CJ is to check inches LE of MaC versus % LE of MaC. The
> manuals refer to % where the range is 17-24. Yet some smart
> industrious refurbishers have converted percent to inches and that
> range is (memory here fails me) around 10-17 inches. So, if your
> adding weight because your C.G. is 15 or 11 you best check to be sure
> if you're talking inches or percent.
>
> As best I know from asking around, no stock CJ needs weight in the
> tail (in elevator for balance maybe, but....). So check the apples
> and oranges are in the right pile.
>
> Mike
> China Blue
>
> http://launch.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | where's the CG in a stock CJ6A |
At 08:34 PM 5/22/2002, you wrote:
>
>As best I know from asking around, no stock CJ needs weight in the
>tail (in elevator for balance maybe, but....). So check the apples
>and oranges are in the right pile.
But if you have removed the Chinese radios, you need weight in the
tail. So far I have yet to see a CJ6A that arrives with the Chinese comm
radio so that weight is already gone. Best you weigh your CJ6A and find
out where the CG really is.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Alternators VS Generator |
At 06:42 PM 5/22/2002, you wrote:
>
>Yaksters;
>I've got to add some weight to the tail or remove some from the nose of
>my 52. I've heard the alternator retrofit will save around 30Lbs. Who
>sells this retrofit, what's it cost, any pro's or cons and where do I
>get it?
B&C specialties has an alternator for the M14P. That is what I am putting
in The Project. The B&C alternator weighs about 8 lbs and replaces the 25
lb generator. Also you can get rid of the generator regulator/controller
and filter. That is probably another 8-10 lbs. The B&C alternator
controller weighs about 1 lb. Since the regulators are near the CG, they
aren't going to change the CG very much. The generator to alternator
change will have more effect on the CG but still, the station for the
generator isn't that far forward so that total moment change will remain
small. (moment = mass * arm)
You may still have to put some weight back in the back to restore your CG
to where it was before you pulled out the radio gear. Is there anything
useful you can put back there? Lead is dense but it doesn't do
anything. As long as you have to put weight in, it ought to do something
useful. Useful things:
* scuba tank
* battery
* oxygen tank
* extra fuel tank
* smoke oil tank
Moving the battery farther aft is a good way to move the CG without having
to add extra weight to the airplane. The battery is mostly lead anyway.
>Thanks in advance
>Frank
>Chino
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RedSkyAviation(at)aol.com |
And regarding the Yak 12 and its derivitive the PZL101A, We have some available...
Bob at Red sky Aviation...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Russ Dycus" <dycusr(at)hotmail.com> |
I think we should call the spares kit the BSK (Barry's Spares Kit) aka
Biscuit. I volunteer to haul the Biscuit around in the 182S I'll be
flying into OLU, where do I pick it up?
Russ (The notorious GIB, who is FINALLY flying himself to one of these
things) Dycus
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Subject: | Re: where's the CG in a stock CJ6A |
Brian,
My battery is in the stock battery compartment on the slide. I think this is
a nice feature, has anyone moved it to the slide rails where the large aft
radio used to be?
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Yak-List: where's the CG in a stock CJ6A
>
> At 08:34 PM 5/22/2002, you wrote:
> >
> >As best I know from asking around, no stock CJ needs weight in the
> >tail (in elevator for balance maybe, but....). So check the apples
> >and oranges are in the right pile.
>
> But if you have removed the Chinese radios, you need weight in the
> tail. So far I have yet to see a CJ6A that arrives with the Chinese comm
> radio so that weight is already gone. Best you weigh your CJ6A and find
> out where the CG really is.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Subject: | Re: Miami Fly In |
Jim,
Have you been watching the weather for this weekend, we may get down there
but we might not get back.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Miami Fly In
>
> In a message dated 5/19/02 2:25:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ernie(at)gscinc.com
> writes:
>
>
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> > I understand you will be flying down on Fri. I'm here at Leeward Air
> > Ranch, would you like to rendevouz and fly down together??
> >
> > Ernie
>
> Yep. I was going to ask if you wanted to do that. I was planning to
leave
> Friday early to mid morning. I could met you over at OCF to tank up and
> nonstop from there?
> Jim Goolsby
> cjpilot710(at)aol.com
> 386-467-3313 voice
> 386-467-3193 fax
> 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
> a little safety, deserve neither liberty
nor
> safety"
> Benjamin Franklin 1759
> "There is no "innocence" in war. All
> collateral damage
> is acceptable."
> unk.
> "With my shield, or on it"
> Trojan Warriors BC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug" <rvfltd(at)televar.com> |
Subject: | Re: The Spares Kit |
Listers, lurkers, GIB's and drivers,
I put together a spares kit and thanks to the huge baggage area and extreme
generosity of Hal and #8 we flew them to Red Star. Hal found a totally new
use for them, as the added weight seemed to he a handy place to lay the
blame for his newly demonstrated landing technique (s). :>) Another odd
event happened that no one at Red Star seemed to notice.....no one had a
problem!! (at least not while I was there). But I digress. My real reason
for this posting is to first offer to assemble a first aid kit for the YPA
gatherings. This kit could be purchased by the YPA (at a discounted price)
and managed by someone they appoint, or it could remain my property, but
would have to be shipped to and from the gatherings @ YPA's expense.
Considering the weight involved (over 50 lbs. went to Red Star) shipping
would get to be expensive after awhile. I am up for suggestions as to how
to handle this and also as to what parts the kit should contain. The second
reason for this posting is to mention that B&C gives me a cost break on
their alternators. If we got an order together for say 6-8 units we might
get a even larger discount. I need one for the miniyak, so if we could find
6-7 more, I will approach them for a deal.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russ Dycus" <dycusr(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Yak-List: The Spares Kit
>
> I think we should call the spares kit the BSK (Barry's Spares Kit) aka
> Biscuit. I volunteer to haul the Biscuit around in the 182S I'll be
> flying into OLU, where do I pick it up?
>
> Russ (The notorious GIB, who is FINALLY flying himself to one of these
> things) Dycus
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Mean aerodynamic chord |
At 10:52 PM 5/22/2002, you wrote:
>If you were to consider fixed ballast only you would need something on the
>order of 75 lbs in the tail. That would be completely unacceptable for
>structural reasons and would introduce a moment of inertia change that may
>make spins unrecoverable.
I was concerned about this also so I made a point of ask Mr. (Dr.? Does he
have a PhD? I would certainly think so.) Cheng, the designer, that
question last summer. He said that the change to the polar moment of
inertia is insufficient to significantly alter the spin characteristics of
the aircraft. Yes, I was surprised but pleased to get clear assurance from
the horses mouth.
>Using an imperical method (translation WAG - wild assed guess) I, and other
>restorers, have settled on about 25 to 28 lbs. in the tail as a maximum. The
>balance of the moment is made up by other installations eg: battery
>relocation, air compressor, reserve air tank, baggage compartment structure,
>ELT, etc. etc.
That certainly makes more sense than just a bunch of lead in the tail.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: where's the CG in a stock CJ6A |
At 09:10 AM 5/23/2002, you wrote:
>
>Brian,
>
>My battery is in the stock battery compartment on the slide. I think this is
>a nice feature, has anyone moved it to the slide rails where the large aft
>radio used to be?
My battery is sitting on a plate under the baggage compartment floor where
the ADF antenna used to be. A sealed battery doesn't require any
maintenance so this is just peachy.
BTW, be careful not to let the battery terminals touch the trim cable. The
result is a gratifying flash and bang accompanied shortly thereafter by
much cussing and swearing.
Brian "Sparky" Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
530.676.1113
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Miami Fly In |
In a message dated 5/23/02 12:14:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ernie(at)gscinc.com writes:
>
> Jim,
>
> Have you been watching the weather for this weekend, we may get down there
> but we might not get back.
>
> Ernie
You might be correct. I'm going to try anyway.
I have a meeting tomorrow morning, than I'm going to start watching the
weather. My hope is that we can leave early Saturday morning.
BTW what's your phone # ?
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Alternators VS Generator |
Brian, Wes, Doug, yaksters.........
Thanks for the info. Still there seems to be little information on the
weight and balance points/calculations available on the YAK-52.
I've got the Termikas manuals and the original airframe logs but between
the two I derive little in the way of weight and balance calculations.
Isn't there someone on this list that has that info? It sure would be
appreciated!
Frank
Chino
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Alternators VS Generator |
At 05:43 PM 5/23/2002, you wrote:
>
>Brian, Wes, Doug, yaksters.........
>Thanks for the info. Still there seems to be little information on the
>weight and balance points/calculations available on the YAK-52.
You have the information you need from the existing W&B data in your
airplane. The existing W&B data gives the standard datum plane, the
weight, and the CG. Measure the distance from the standard datum plane to
your generator, remove the 25 lb generator, replace it with an 8 lb
alternator, and recalculate the CG. When I say "remove it" I mean just
subtract the weight and moment for the generator and then add in the weight
and moment for the alternator. Divide the resulting aircraft moment by the
gross weight to get the new CG.
You have to be able to do this already. How do you calculate W&B now?
BTW, if you don't know where the standard datum plane is, find something
you do know, e.g. the oil tank, and measure from there to get the moment
arm for the new item, e.g. the generator.
>I've got the Termikas manuals and the original airframe logs but between
>the two I derive little in the way of weight and balance calculations.
Everything you need is in your standard paperwork package. Remember ARROW?
Airworthiness certificate
Registration
Radio license (not needed any more in the US but needed outside the US)
Operators manual (this one is usually a chuckle -- maybe lOa for us)
W&B
That latter piece of paper gives you everything you need to know to do the
new calculation. OK, maybe you need to get out the tape measure to figure
out the arm for the radios you yanked but you have all the information you
need.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Subject: | Re: Miami Fly In |
My plan is for Sat morning also. 352-347-8751.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: <cjpilot710(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Miami Fly In
>
> In a message dated 5/23/02 12:14:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> ernie(at)gscinc.com writes:
>
>
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> > Have you been watching the weather for this weekend, we may get down
there
> > but we might not get back.
> >
> > Ernie
>
> You might be correct. I'm going to try anyway.
>
> I have a meeting tomorrow morning, than I'm going to start watching the
> weather. My hope is that we can leave early Saturday morning.
>
> BTW what's your phone # ?
>
> Jim Goolsby
> cjpilot710(at)aol.com
> 386-467-3313 voice
> 386-467-3193 fax
> 386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
> a little safety, deserve neither liberty
nor
> safety"
> Benjamin Franklin 1759
> "There is no "innocence" in war. All
> collateral damage
> is acceptable."
> unk.
> "With my shield, or on it"
> Trojan Warriors BC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael DiMarco <mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Mean aerodynamic chord |
--- Walt Lannon wrote:
>
> Subject; Mean Aerodynamic Chord
> Mike
> You are correct, the stock CJ does not need any weight in the tail.
> However
> "stock" means that all of the original avionics and associated
> electrical
> equipment is still installed. If you remove all of it including the
> redundant wiring you are taking out 195 lbs of equipment. This does
> not
> include the original battery weight.
I have only the original battery but not the radios.
>
> This reduces the total aircraft moment by a signifigant amount that
> must be
> reinstated by installation of other equipment and/or fixed ballast.
>
> If you were to consider fixed ballast only you would need
> something on the
> order of 75 lbs in the tail. That would be completely unacceptable
> for
> structural reasons and would introduce a moment of inertia change
> that may
> make spins unrecoverable.
>
> Using an imperical method (translation WAG - wild assed guess) I,
> and other
> restorers, have settled on about 25 to 28 lbs. in the tail as a
> maximum. The
> balance of the moment is made up by other installations eg: battery
> relocation, air compressor, reserve air tank, baggage compartment
> structure,
> ELT, etc. etc.
>
> MAC % vs inches from MAC LE is really immaterial. As pointed out in
> earlier
Inches vs Percent is not immaterial. Its apples and oranges, if you
think your cg is 15%(bad) when its 15 inches(good) you're adding
weight for exactly the wrong reason.
Mike
http://launch.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael DiMarco <mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: where's the CG in a stock CJ6A |
--- Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
> At 08:34 PM 5/22/2002, you wrote:
>
> >
> >As best I know from asking around, no stock CJ needs weight in the
> >tail (in elevator for balance maybe, but....). So check the
> apples
> >and oranges are in the right pile.
>
> But if you have removed the Chinese radios, you need weight in the
> tail. So far I have yet to see a CJ6A that arrives with the
> Chinese comm
> radio so that weight is already gone. Best you weigh your CJ6A and
> find
> out where the CG really is.
Jerry Painter did a w&b after refurb with the chinese radios out. My
cg is fine. Ya'll need to read a little further. Inches ain't
percent. Using one when thinking the other will get the wrong
result. BTW, I have no weight added to my CJ.
Mike
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
>
>
> messages.
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://launch.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: where's the CG in a stock CJ6A |
At 09:02 PM 5/23/2002, you wrote:
>Jerry Painter did a w&b after refurb with the chinese radios out.
Of course. That is what anyone with any sense would do.
>My
>cg is fine. Ya'll need to read a little further. Inches ain't
>percent. Using one when thinking the other will get the wrong
>result.
I certainly never suggested that you did. If course you would get the
wrong result. In fact, I never even imagined that someone would make that
mistake.
>BTW, I have no weight added to my CJ.
All my added weight is in useful stuff. To get my CG right at the forward
limit with just the pilot in the plane:
battery moved to the ADF antenna station
scuba tank about the same station
alternator conversion
It seems to have done the trick.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Walt Lannon" <lannon(at)look.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Mean aerodynamic chord |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael DiMarco" <mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Mean aerodynamic chord
>
>
> --- Walt Lannon wrote:
> >
> > Subject; Mean Aerodynamic Chord
> > Mike
> > You are correct, the stock CJ does not need any weight in the tail.
> > However
> > "stock" means that all of the original avionics and associated
> > electrical
> > equipment is still installed. If you remove all of it including the
> > redundant wiring you are taking out 195 lbs of equipment. This does
> > not
> > include the original battery weight.
>
> I have only the original battery but not the radios.
>
>
> >
> > This reduces the total aircraft moment by a signifigant amount that
> > must be
> > reinstated by installation of other equipment and/or fixed ballast.
> >
> > If you were to consider fixed ballast only you would need
> > something on the
> > order of 75 lbs in the tail. That would be completely unacceptable
> > for
> > structural reasons and would introduce a moment of inertia change
> > that may
> > make spins unrecoverable.
> >
> > Using an imperical method (translation WAG - wild assed guess) I,
> > and other
> > restorers, have settled on about 25 to 28 lbs. in the tail as a
> > maximum. The
> > balance of the moment is made up by other installations eg: battery
> > relocation, air compressor, reserve air tank, baggage compartment
> > structure,
> > ELT, etc. etc.
> >
> > MAC % vs inches from MAC LE is really immaterial. As pointed out in
> > earlier
>
> Inches vs Percent is not immaterial. Its apples and oranges, if you
> think your cg is 15%(bad) when its 15 inches(good) you're adding
> weight for exactly the wrong reason.
Hi Mike;
Immaterial is probably not the right word here. What I was trying to point
out is that %MAC is not a useable term for determining where your CG is
located. Once it is located, in inches or mm, you can convert and refer to
it in % if you wish. The MAC length is 1747mm or 68.78".
Your limits are 17% to 24.1%. That equals 11.7" to 16.6" aft of the leading
edge of the MAC. But since it is impractical at best to use the MAC leading
edge as the datum it is incomprehensible that your empty weight CG
(for example) could be reported by a number such as 12".
The manual specifies the location of the MAC leading edge at 769mm (30.2'')
forward of the main wheel C/L.
With that information you establish a useable datum, let's say at 125"
forward of the MW C/L. This is far enough forward so that all arms are
positive numbers thereby simplifying the math and reducing errors.
The MAC l/e is located at 94.8" aft (125 - 30.2)
The forward limit is at 106.5" (94.8 + 11.7)
The aft limit is 111.4" (94.8 + 16.6)
You could have used the wing l/e at the root (or any reference point) as the
datum which would be AT A GUESS about 6" forward of the MAC l/e, Limits
would then be 17.7" to 22.6".
Hope this is of some help. If all your original radio equip. is removed and
you have no ballast, whether lead or other equip. your CG is well ahead of
the forward limit. You may find it difficult to get the tail down for a
short field landing (though the CJ has excellent elevator effectiveness even
with the CG 1 or 2" forward of the limit). Or you may find that your stall
speed is slightly higher than other CJ's
Walt
lannon(at)look.ca
>
> Mike
>
> http://launch.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie" <ernie(at)gscinc.com> |
Subject: | Re: where's the CG in a stock CJ6A |
Brian,
WHat did you use to reinforce the ADF station? The battery is currently
mounted on some heafty rails secured at several points. DO you do acro in
your plane?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: where's the CG in a stock CJ6A
>
> At 09:02 PM 5/23/2002, you wrote:
> >Jerry Painter did a w&b after refurb with the chinese radios out.
>
> Of course. That is what anyone with any sense would do.
>
> >My
> >cg is fine. Ya'll need to read a little further. Inches ain't
> >percent. Using one when thinking the other will get the wrong
> >result.
>
> I certainly never suggested that you did. If course you would get the
> wrong result. In fact, I never even imagined that someone would make that
> mistake.
>
> >BTW, I have no weight added to my CJ.
>
> All my added weight is in useful stuff. To get my CG right at the forward
> limit with just the pilot in the plane:
>
> battery moved to the ADF antenna station
> scuba tank about the same station
> alternator conversion
>
> It seems to have done the trick.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Drew" <drew(at)allredstar.com> |
Subject: | Seat Cushion for the CJ |
Folks,
I need a couple of seat cushions for the CJ buckets, does anyone know of
a distributor from whom I can order a set? thanks,
Drew
Drew A. Blahnick
Red Stars Inc.
Cell 310-372-6328
Communism: lousy politics - great airplanes!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Seat Cushion for the CJ |
At 09:43 AM 5/24/2002, you wrote:
>
>Folks,
>
>I need a couple of seat cushions for the CJ buckets, does anyone know of
>a distributor from whom I can order a set? thanks,
I had a set made at the local automotive upholsterer.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Seat Cushion for the CJ |
In a message dated 5/24/02 2:22:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brian(at)lloyd.com
writes:
> >I need a couple of seat cushions for the CJ buckets, does anyone know of
> >a distributor from whom I can order a set? thanks,
>
> I had a set made at the local automotive upholsterer.
> Brian Lloyd
Like Brain, I did the same. You can take the measurements off the seat and
have any design you want made up. Ribs, no ribs, rolled edges, whatever.
You can take out the seats and let the upholsterer work right from them. My
advice is stick with the leathers or naga hide.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Russ Dycus" <dycusr(at)hotmail.com> |
Drew,
A to be unnamed CJ pilot from the NW was reportedly seen talking with the
Oregon Aero people at Sun N Fun about seat cushions for his CJ.
http://www.oregonaero.com/p18_2001.htm
> I need a couple of seat cushions for the CJ buckets, does anyone know of
> a distributor from whom I can order a set? thanks,
>
> Drew
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Seat Cushions |
At 08:54 AM 5/25/2002, you wrote:
>
>Drew,
>A to be unnamed CJ pilot from the NW was reportedly seen talking with the
>Oregon Aero people at Sun N Fun about seat cushions for his CJ.
Oregon Aero makes really good seats and seat cushions. I had them for my
RV-4 and it made it possible to fly in that airplane all day long without
my butt becoming sore. The only issue is that you are going to pay a LOT
for a seat cushion from them. Plan on $400+ per cushion and a fairly long
lead time.
Frankly, if you usually fly with your parachute on (and if you own a
parachute why wouldn't you wear it) the cushion is going to have limited
use. In that case the Oregon Area seat cushion is not going to be cost
effective.
>http://www.oregonaero.com/p18_2001.htm
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | CG information for the CJ6A |
Here are the stations and limits for a CJ6A in case someone wants to do
some calculations.
Standard datum: 24" forward of the propeller axial center.
MAC: 65" chord, 42" outboard of the wing joint centerline.
(All inch measurements are aft of the standard datum plane.)
Max forward CG on ground: 11% of MAC, 121.15"
Max forward CG in flight: 12.5% of MAC, 122.13"
Max rear CG in flight: 24.1% of MAC, 129.67"
Stations:
Station name: Position:
prop 24"
engine 45"
nosewheel (ground contact) 57"
engine accessory section 60"
oil tank 69"
front seat 123"
wing jack point 129"
front spar 131.5"
main gear (ground contact) 146.5"
fuel 149"
rear seat 174"
avionics bay behind rear seat 188"
battery box 199"
ADF electronics tray 214"
tail skid 338"
To weigh the airplane and calculate empty weight and CG:
1. Put a scale under each of the wheels.
2. Level the aircraft by adding or removing air from the tires with a
level on the canopy rails.
3. Multiply the weight at each wheel by its station to get the moment at
each wheel.
4. Sum the moments and sum the weights. The sum of the weights is the
empty weight of the airplane.
5. Divide the sum of the moments by the sum of the weights to get new CG.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Hal Morley" <yakjock(at)msn.com> |
Oregon Aero also makes custom seats. I plane to have a set made there later
n the year.
Wherever you go, make sure you have enough support in them to clear the lip
of the bucket seat. The last thing anyone would want is to have the lip of
the seat cutting into your leg.
Hal Morley
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Thayer" <doug.thayer(at)charter.net> |
I have been having problems with one of those little struts that hold the
ring around the shutters in place. The 90 degree strut at 4 o'clock
(looking from the front to the rear) and the diagonal strut at about 4:30
keep breaking. The ring is a little loose from the cowl at that point.
I've started with having to replace the diagonal a couple of times and now
the 90 strut has also failed. Any ideas?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Thayer" <doug.thayer(at)charter.net> |
I have also found my primer line leaking. The one for the right side of
the primer. It was leaking right where the hose comes through the
firewall on the top right side of the firewall. I have had trouble
setting the mixture accurately to get a smooth running engine. I
suspect that this might be the culprit.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Thayer" <doug.thayer(at)charter.net> |
Subject: | Uneven Fuel Burn |
I have had similar problems with uneven fuel burn in the past right tank
feeds good, left tank feeds so-so. Pulled tanks, blew out vent lines,
etc.. Even moved rudder trim tab out so that I flew in a slip all the
time to see how it would feed THAT way. It still fed more from right
just not as bad. They were almost burning even... It makes for a heck of
a look in formation. Am trying a new fuel T with the flapper valves. It
is NOT all about balanced flight. I am wondering if in anybody has
looked at that debubbler return line? Where does it go? Does it tend to
return more to the left side? It must go back into the vent system
somewhere becuase fuel gets into vent lines when you put a little
pressure on the fuel feed lines with the tanks out of the loop. I
guess I could crawl under the panel to look but it's alot easier asking
someone else thats already done it.
Doug Thayer
YAK-52
(817) 488-1724
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jeff Linebaugh" <linedog(at)peoplepc.com> |
Subject: | EAA Warbird Newsletter Survey |
Just got home and found the latest EAA Warbird newsletter on my desk...and
the Warbird Reader Survey...
So..perhaps this is a chance for us to be heard at EAA? Anybody else think
to put down on the survey that we want more articles/coverage for the
fastest growing...and soon to be the largest segment of the warbird
community....us!? If you haven't tossed the survey yet...give it some
thought? Maybe if they got 50 surveys all saying the same thing they would
take notice?
Jeff Linebaugh
linedog(at)peoplepc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Walt Lannon" <lannon(at)look.ca> |
Subject: | Re: CG information for the CJ6A |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Yak-List: CG information for the CJ6A
>
> Here are the stations and limits for a CJ6A in case someone wants to do
> some calculations.
>
> Standard datum: 24" forward of the propeller axial center.
> MAC: 65" chord, 42" outboard of the wing joint centerline.
>
> (All inch measurements are aft of the standard datum plane.)
Brian - I was not aware there was a "standard datum". Where did you find
that?
The MAC length is 1747 mm = 68.78"
The lateral location of the MAC is immaterial for the purpose we are
concerned with here. I expect you have determined the length (65") and
location of the MGC or mean geometric chord which is not exactly the same
but probably close enough for government work.
> Max forward CG on ground: 11% of MAC, 121.15"
> Max forward CG in flight: 12.5% of MAC, 122.13"
> Max rear CG in flight: 24.1% of MAC, 129.67"
Max. forward cg with the landing gear down is 17% not 11%. What you are
referencing here is the VERTICAL location of the CG ABOVE the MAC for an
empty aircraft.
The 12.5% you refer to as the in flight forward cg limit is in fact the
VERTICAL (y axis) location of the cg for the fully loaded aircraft.
These are of no concern for our purposes in locating the longitudinal (x
axis) CG.
Max. rearward cg limit is correct at 24.1%. with the gear retracted. A
normal landing gear retraction moment is not given in the specifications
since no standard datum point is specified. You can't have a moment without
a starting point. What they have done instead is tell us that the cg moves
aft by the amount of 0.7% MAC (0.48 inches) when the gear is retracted. This
is fine, once you have selected a datum point you can determine the moment
if you wish to show it in the W&B report.
The allowable C of G range is 124 mm or 4.9".
Stations:
>
> Station name: Position:
>
> prop 24"
> engine 45"
> nosewheel (ground contact) 57"
> engine accessory section 60"
> oil tank 69"
> front seat 123"
> wing jack point 129"
> front spar 131.5"
> main gear (ground contact) 146.5"
> fuel 149"
> rear seat 174"
> avionics bay behind rear seat 188"
> battery box 199"
> ADF electronics tray 214"
> tail skid 338"
>
> To weigh the airplane and calculate empty weight and CG:
>
> 1. Put a scale under each of the wheels.
>
> 2. Level the aircraft by adding or removing air from the tires with a
> level on the canopy rails.
You might get the aircraft level by this method though you may have to
remove nitrogen from the nose gear shock strut as well. But due to the nose
gear caster angle you will change the dimension between the NG and MG
centers and introduce an incorrect moment.
The correct procedure (if you are using scales under the wheels) is to jack
the aircraft and fit appropriate blocking under the main wheels to level the
aircraft. If you are using load cells at the jack points then blocking is
not required. The blocks are tare weight which is deducted from the main
wheel measured weights.
> 3. Multiply the weight at each wheel by its station to get the moment at
> each wheel.
>
> 4. Sum the moments and sum the weights. The sum of the weights is the
> empty weight of the airplane.
Yes, assuming it was weighed with no oil or fuel. If not the weights and
moments of those items must be deducted to determine the empty weight and
CG. Standard practice is zero fuel. Oil is generally acceptable as the
quantity is small and readily identified for calculation purposes.
Walt
lannon(at)look.ca
> 5. Divide the sum of the moments by the sum of the weights to get new CG.
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | [ Paul B Juergens ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
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Subject: Yak fire
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________________________________________________________________________________
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From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Craig Payne <cpayne(at)mc.net> |
Subject: | Re: EAA Warbird Newsletter Survey |
Jeff and all:
It's possible nobody is listening at the other end of that survey...the
NEW
warbird Executive Director resigned 2 months ago, shortly after getting
the position. I heard he went to fly with AA.
What this means for us remains to be seen. I believe we made at least
one
friend in the WB Air Boss at SNF when we consistently showed up with
airplanes
to put up overhead during the WB airshow. His load was even lighter
since he
didn't have to recover us at Lakeland.
Craig Payne
Jeff Linebaugh wrote:
>
>
> Just got home and found the latest EAA Warbird newsletter on my desk...and
> the Warbird Reader Survey...
>
> So..perhaps this is a chance for us to be heard at EAA? Anybody else think
> to put down on the survey that we want more articles/coverage for the
> fastest growing...and soon to be the largest segment of the warbird
> community....us!? If you haven't tossed the survey yet...give it some
> thought? Maybe if they got 50 surveys all saying the same thing they would
> take notice?
>
> Jeff Linebaugh
> linedog(at)peoplepc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cjpilot710(at)aol.com |
keith.goolsby(at)eds.com, gaf127enl(at)msn.com, roja(at)cwcom.net, DrRSWms(at)aol.com,
MDSHELLEY(at)aol.com, cd001633(at)mindspring.com, cpayne(at)mc.net, yakjock(at)msn.com,
linedog(at)peoplepc.com, bdogltd(at)pacbell.net, wfricke(at)mediaone.net,
finleycj6(at)juno.com, BDorsey777(at)aol.com, wildf15c(at)hotmail.com,
rvfltd(at)televar.com, Swifty305(at)aol.com, tcalloway(at)datatechnique.com,
paulcfitzgerald(at)attbi.com, mason.t(at)worldnet.att.net, WaltOrth(at)aol.com,
radialpower(at)cox.net.Sevendips@aol.com, CEParaiso(at)aol.com,
Inetnovice(at)aol.com, JGoolsby(at)umaryland.edu, artziggy6(at)yahoo.com,
moreira_thais(at)hotmail.com, vicky(at)shippei.com, WINDSURFE(at)aol.com,
paraisoam(at)surfbest.net, EdrisDee(at)aol.com, Ckelso17(at)earthlink.net,
jerrybrun(at)yahoo.com, KROwen(at)charter.net, mentor(at)cheshir.com,
PaulSanden(at)aol.com, Ruthcopes(at)aol.com, carriesuerowe(at)yahoo.com,
paulbeth.mullen(at)worldnet.att.net, ddenham7(at)home.com, wpairprt(at)tdstelme.net,
garvey(at)attbi.com
Just returned from TMB (Tamiami airport south of Miami) Kermit Weeks use to
have a museum there. Some local enthusiast took over the fascility after
Weeks left and have started a flying museum called "Wings Over Miami." At
this point most all of Weeks stuff has been move up to Poke City and the
Fantasy Of Flight.
The new museum is struggling at this point, but the crowd I saw there this
weekend is hearting. The folks there set up a little flying schedule for the
whole day. Each flying group was assigned a :25 minute fly by window which
we did twice each day. One one point each day, all aircraft were launch for
a big fly-by. The weather (as always in Florida) was perfect, and the
control tower folk very accommodating. It went very well,
We had:
6 CJ-6As,
2 Yak-52s,
6 T-6s,
a BT-13,
PBY5A Catolinia,
Mig-15 utb,
L-29,
2 T-28s,
and a French Volga jet, all flying.
Also there was a Yak-18T (beautifully done),
an O-2, and this and that of other nonmilitary stuff.
Being the nice guy that I am. And wanting to do something for museum (since
they paid for my gas, room, car, and lunches), I found myself volunteering to
recover the flight controls for their Yak-11. She was a little doggy but
straight and whole before hurricane Andrew drop some of the hangar on top of
her (10 years ago now folks). She is completely rebuildable and will make a
great flying exhibit for the museum. Anyway it should take up some of my
free time. BTW I just finished rebuilding the pilot/copilot seat for a CAF
SNB-5 based in Deland, Fl. LOTS of work needed there.
One of the events were commentaries of experiences by WW2 vets to the crowds
there. Folks listened. Like all the stories I hear around the B-17 & B-24,
they were heart wrenching at times.
Well, tomorrow, I'll clean up the Dragon and get the bird poop off her
rudder. I seem to have come up with a dragging brake, so that'll will have
to be fixed.
All in all I'd say I've had a great week end. Happy Memorial Day friends.
And remember who those who gave their last and greatest gift.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-569-7060 cell "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"There is no "innocence" in war. All
collateral damage
is acceptable."
unk.
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: CG information for the CJ6A |
At 11:24 PM 5/25/2002, you wrote:
> > (All inch measurements are aft of the standard datum plane.)
>Brian - I was not aware there was a "standard datum". Where did you find
>that?
The standard datum can be anywhere you want it to be. Someone just
happened to pick 24" ahead of the prop. I like having a datum that is
outside the airplane so that I am never faced with a zero-length arm.
I was recently helping Walt Fricke with a W&B problem and his information
happened to place the standard datum at the firewall. It doesn't matter
where you put it, just so long as you keep using the same one for your
calculations. Hence my point about there being no standardization of
"standard" datum planes. Would you prefer I rework the info using a
different datum? Easy enough to do.
>The MAC length is 1747 mm = 68.78"
OK, I'll bite. I will grant you that, for the sake of argument, your
information is correct and mine in error. Mine was provided by Yakity Yaks
with the aircraft. I assumed (uh oh!) that it was correct given that, 1)
Yakity Yaks knows what they are doing, 2) it was so complete and neatly
presented as part of the paperwork package. If you have a pointer to the
Nanchang documents would you please forward them to me so that I can look
them up and translate the numbers (not the writing!) for myself.
>The lateral location of the MAC is immaterial for the purpose we are
>concerned with here.
Unless you are using the chord at a particular location on the wing to be
the MAC. Then the lateral distance tells you where the MAC is. But I will
defer.
>I expect you have determined the length (65") and
>location of the MGC or mean geometric chord which is not exactly the same
>but probably close enough for government work.
It probably is. As I said, I didn't do the work myself. It was part of my
aircraft documentation package. Serves me right to assume that information
given to me is correct without verifying it for myself. That is why I am
asking for the information from the Nanchang documents so I can verify it.
> > Max forward CG on ground: 11% of MAC, 121.15"
> > Max forward CG in flight: 12.5% of MAC, 122.13"
> > Max rear CG in flight: 24.1% of MAC, 129.67"
>
>Max. forward cg with the landing gear down is 17% not 11%.
Probably a typo on my doc then. I could have read it wrong.
>What you are
>referencing here is the VERTICAL location of the CG ABOVE the MAC for an
>empty aircraft.
OK, I will buy that. That certainly isn't stated in my documentation. It
certainly doesn't make sense for the forward CG limit on the ground to be
aft of the forward CG limit in the air.
>The 12.5% you refer to as the in flight forward cg limit is in fact the
>VERTICAL (y axis) location of the cg for the fully loaded aircraft.
>
>These are of no concern for our purposes in locating the longitudinal (x
>axis) CG.
I agree but what really concerns me is that the documentation provided by
Yakity Yaks could be so wrong. This means that I have been promulgating
incorrect information, something that bothers me greatly.
>Max. rearward cg limit is correct at 24.1%. with the gear retracted. A
>normal landing gear retraction moment is not given in the specifications
>since no standard datum point is specified. You can't have a moment without
>a starting point.
And it doesn't matter where the datum is since all the moments will be
relative to that datum plane. Once you translate MAC and percent of MAC to
the datum of your choice, you can figure out where the CG is.
>What they have done instead is tell us that the cg moves
>aft by the amount of 0.7% MAC (0.48 inches) when the gear is retracted. This
>is fine, once you have selected a datum point you can determine the moment
>if you wish to show it in the W&B report.
That works and it doesn't matter what datum plane you chose then.
>The allowable C of G range is 124 mm or 4.9".
Ahhhh, that is a fair bit different. Seems anyone who has W&B data from
Yakity Yaks needs to check their paperwork. Now I really need to find the
Chinese data and adjust my paperwork.
> Stations:
> >
> > Station name: Position:
> >
> > prop 24"
> > engine 45"
> > nosewheel (ground contact) 57"
> > engine accessory section 60"
> > oil tank 69"
> > front seat 123"
> > wing jack point 129"
> > front spar 131.5"
> > main gear (ground contact) 146.5"
> > fuel 149"
> > rear seat 174"
> > avionics bay behind rear seat 188"
> > battery box 199"
> > ADF electronics tray 214"
> > tail skid 338"
> >
> > To weigh the airplane and calculate empty weight and CG:
> >
> > 1. Put a scale under each of the wheels.
> >
> > 2. Level the aircraft by adding or removing air from the tires with a
> > level on the canopy rails.
>
>You might get the aircraft level by this method though you may have to
>remove nitrogen from the nose gear shock strut as well. But due to the nose
>gear caster angle you will change the dimension between the NG and MG
>centers and introduce an incorrect moment.
yup. You may need to put a block under the main gear tires.
>The correct procedure (if you are using scales under the wheels) is to jack
>the aircraft and fit appropriate blocking under the main wheels to level the
>aircraft. If you are using load cells at the jack points then blocking is
>not required. The blocks are tare weight which is deducted from the main
>wheel measured weights.
>
> > 3. Multiply the weight at each wheel by its station to get the moment at
> > each wheel.
> >
> > 4. Sum the moments and sum the weights. The sum of the weights is the
> > empty weight of the airplane.
>
>Yes, assuming it was weighed with no oil or fuel.
You have to leave unusable fuel in the aircraft. For that matter, you can
weigh it with known fuel and oil then subtract their weights and moments to
figure empty weight, moment, and CG.
>If not the weights and
>moments of those items must be deducted to determine the empty weight and
>CG. Standard practice is zero fuel. Oil is generally acceptable as the
>quantity is small and readily identified for calculation purposes.
Insofar as 3.5 gallons of oil is a small quantity.
I guess this is yet another lesson to me to be rigidly accurate in all
things. I will indulge in self-flagellation with a CD-ROM in penance.
"Forgive me father for I have sinned ..."
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mark Jefferies , YAK UK Ltd" <yakuk(at)compuserve.com> |
sorry to here about the fire Paul had but it does illustrate how
important it is to recognise manufactures life limits on hoses.
Best regards, Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike McCoy" <mike(at)aircraftsales.com> |
Subject: | Re: CG information for the CJ6A |
Brian,
All of this weight and balance information is on page 5 of the manual you
were given by Yakity Yaks. Obviously, it is difficult to dispute the
information that you claim you were given by Fred, but all the weight and
balance info that Yakity Yaks gives out is accurate and is located on page 5
of the manual.
Instead of blaming someone else for your mistakes as usual, why not just say
that you got caught putting out more B.S. on the Yak List! I have asked you
time after time to not publish information when you don't know what you are
talking about.
Mike McCoy
>
> At 11:24 PM 5/25/2002, you wrote:
> > > (All inch measurements are aft of the standard datum plane.)
> >Brian - I was not aware there was a "standard datum". Where did you find
> >that?
>
> The standard datum can be anywhere you want it to be. Someone just
> happened to pick 24" ahead of the prop. I like having a datum that is
> outside the airplane so that I am never faced with a zero-length arm.
>
> I was recently helping Walt Fricke with a W&B problem and his information
> happened to place the standard datum at the firewall. It doesn't matter
> where you put it, just so long as you keep using the same one for your
> calculations. Hence my point about there being no standardization of
> "standard" datum planes. Would you prefer I rework the info using a
> different datum? Easy enough to do.
>
> >The MAC length is 1747 mm = 68.78"
>
> OK, I'll bite. I will grant you that, for the sake of argument, your
> information is correct and mine in error. Mine was provided by Yakity
Yaks
> with the aircraft. I assumed (uh oh!) that it was correct given that, 1)
> Yakity Yaks knows what they are doing, 2) it was so complete and neatly
> presented as part of the paperwork package. If you have a pointer to the
> Nanchang documents would you please forward them to me so that I can look
> them up and translate the numbers (not the writing!) for myself.
>
> >The lateral location of the MAC is immaterial for the purpose we are
> >concerned with here.
>
> Unless you are using the chord at a particular location on the wing to be
> the MAC. Then the lateral distance tells you where the MAC is. But I
will
> defer.
>
> >I expect you have determined the length (65") and
> >location of the MGC or mean geometric chord which is not exactly the same
> >but probably close enough for government work.
>
> It probably is. As I said, I didn't do the work myself. It was part of
my
> aircraft documentation package. Serves me right to assume that
information
> given to me is correct without verifying it for myself. That is why I am
> asking for the information from the Nanchang documents so I can verify it.
>
> > > Max forward CG on ground: 11% of MAC, 121.15"
> > > Max forward CG in flight: 12.5% of MAC, 122.13"
> > > Max rear CG in flight: 24.1% of MAC, 129.67"
> >
> >Max. forward cg with the landing gear down is 17% not 11%.
>
> Probably a typo on my doc then. I could have read it wrong.
>
> >What you are
> >referencing here is the VERTICAL location of the CG ABOVE the MAC for an
> >empty aircraft.
>
> OK, I will buy that. That certainly isn't stated in my documentation. It
> certainly doesn't make sense for the forward CG limit on the ground to be
> aft of the forward CG limit in the air.
>
> >The 12.5% you refer to as the in flight forward cg limit is in fact the
> >VERTICAL (y axis) location of the cg for the fully loaded aircraft.
> >
> >These are of no concern for our purposes in locating the longitudinal (x
> >axis) CG.
>
> I agree but what really concerns me is that the documentation provided by
> Yakity Yaks could be so wrong. This means that I have been promulgating
> incorrect information, something that bothers me greatly.
>
> >Max. rearward cg limit is correct at 24.1%. with the gear retracted. A
> >normal landing gear retraction moment is not given in the specifications
> >since no standard datum point is specified. You can't have a moment
without
> >a starting point.
>
> And it doesn't matter where the datum is since all the moments will be
> relative to that datum plane. Once you translate MAC and percent of MAC
to
> the datum of your choice, you can figure out where the CG is.
>
> >What they have done instead is tell us that the cg moves
> >aft by the amount of 0.7% MAC (0.48 inches) when the gear is retracted.
This
> >is fine, once you have selected a datum point you can determine the
moment
> >if you wish to show it in the W&B report.
>
> That works and it doesn't matter what datum plane you chose then.
>
> >The allowable C of G range is 124 mm or 4.9".
>
> Ahhhh, that is a fair bit different. Seems anyone who has W&B data from
> Yakity Yaks needs to check their paperwork. Now I really need to find the
> Chinese data and adjust my paperwork.
>
>
> > Stations:
> > >
> > > Station name: Position:
> > >
> > > prop 24"
> > > engine 45"
> > > nosewheel (ground contact) 57"
> > > engine accessory section 60"
> > > oil tank 69"
> > > front seat 123"
> > > wing jack point 129"
> > > front spar 131.5"
> > > main gear (ground contact) 146.5"
> > > fuel 149"
> > > rear seat 174"
> > > avionics bay behind rear seat 188"
> > > battery box 199"
> > > ADF electronics tray 214"
> > > tail skid 338"
> > >
> > > To weigh the airplane and calculate empty weight and CG:
> > >
> > > 1. Put a scale under each of the wheels.
> > >
> > > 2. Level the aircraft by adding or removing air from the tires with a
> > > level on the canopy rails.
> >
> >You might get the aircraft level by this method though you may have to
> >remove nitrogen from the nose gear shock strut as well. But due to the
nose
> >gear caster angle you will change the dimension between the NG and MG
> >centers and introduce an incorrect moment.
>
> yup. You may need to put a block under the main gear tires.
>
> >The correct procedure (if you are using scales under the wheels) is to
jack
> >the aircraft and fit appropriate blocking under the main wheels to level
the
> >aircraft. If you are using load cells at the jack points then blocking is
> >not required. The blocks are tare weight which is deducted from the main
> >wheel measured weights.
> >
> > > 3. Multiply the weight at each wheel by its station to get the moment
at
> > > each wheel.
> > >
> > > 4. Sum the moments and sum the weights. The sum of the weights is
the
> > > empty weight of the airplane.
> >
> >Yes, assuming it was weighed with no oil or fuel.
>
> You have to leave unusable fuel in the aircraft. For that matter, you can
> weigh it with known fuel and oil then subtract their weights and moments
to
> figure empty weight, moment, and CG.
>
> >If not the weights and
> >moments of those items must be deducted to determine the empty weight and
> >CG. Standard practice is zero fuel. Oil is generally acceptable as the
> >quantity is small and readily identified for calculation purposes.
>
> Insofar as 3.5 gallons of oil is a small quantity.
>
> I guess this is yet another lesson to me to be rigidly accurate in all
> things. I will indulge in self-flagellation with a CD-ROM in penance.
>
> "Forgive me father for I have sinned ..."
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
May 13, 2002 - May 27, 2002
Yak-Archive.digest.vol-az