Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-bd

August 12, 1999 - September 13, 1999



      
      Thanks,
      
      Ron Hansen
      601HDS scratchbuilding
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jason Zwyers" <jzwyers(at)concentric.net>
Subject: Anyone near STL on the way to Open Hangar Day
Date: Aug 12, 1999
Phil, I live in the St. Louis area and will be driving out :( You are welcome to ride along if you wish. Of course, if you find someone flying out I would pick that mode! -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Polstra, Phil Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 10:31 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Anyone near STL on the way to Open Hangar Day I had been considering driving to the Open Hangar day from ATL, but it turns out I'll be coming back from a trip to CA. I'll be flying into STL at 7:45am on the 28th. Will anyone with an extra seat be flying in that direction on their way to the event? If not, I'll have a rental car to share with anyone else who might be flying into STL. Philip A. Polstra Technical Director, Internal Products WebMD ppolstra(at)webmd.net (404)479-7713 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 1999
From: Fred Hulen <fhulen(at)gabs.net>
Subject: Re: Open Hanger Day List Attendees list
> > >Darla Golin wrote: > >> >> > >> >List Builders attending the Mexico, MO factory Open Hanger Day >> > >> >Attendee From (area) >> >----------------------------------------------- >> >Jimmy Ayres Russellville, AR >> >Mike Fothergill Keswick, Ontario, Canada (weather permitting) >> >Jason Zwyers Wentzville, MO >> >Fred Hulen Lee's Summit, Mo >> >Greg Ferris Cedar Falls, IA >> >Mike Slaughter Ft.Lauderdale,FL (back to Toronto in November) >> >Dave Austin Oshawa, Ontario,Canada >>> Bill and Carol Morelli Vermont >> > >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 1999
From: Norris <rnorris4(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Fuel pump switch
Any of you using locker tanks or leading edge tanks might be interested in this - it's a fuel pump switch that automatically turns off the pump when your aux or wing tank has emptied into the header or main tank, or runs the pump for 5 min then automatically shuts off. I plan to use it to transfer fuel from my aux (locker) tanks to the leading edge (main) tanks (no header tank). Now if we could get one to look at the radar altimeter and automatically turn the boost pump on if <1000' AGL... http://www.ppavionics.com/ Rob Norris Starting on center wing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ronbo135(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 13, 1999
Subject: Re: Forward fuse top skin
Yes, I have the 8 gallon header tank. Thanks, Ron << Ron, As I recall, the only problem with the deflection involved wings tanks only. Do you have a header tank? Jimmy Ayres 601HDS (still working on canopy) -----Original Message----- From: Ronbo135(at)aol.com [mailto:Ronbo135(at)aol.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 10:31 AM To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Forward fuse top skin Group, I am about to cut the forward top skin and remembered some folks saying they had some flex in flight under the canopy and others saying that they could use some reinforcement at the top of the instrument panel. Would anyone recommend using thicker metal for this? I have enough spare material to do this. I'm installing the forward hinging canopy. Thanks, Ron Hansen 601HDS scratchbuilding >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell" <entec1(at)pld.com>
Subject: Re: Open Hanger Day List Attendees list
Date: Aug 13, 1999
List Builders attending the Mexico, MO factory Open Hanger Day Attendee From (area) ----------------------------------------------- Jimmy Ayres Russellville, AR Mike Fothergill Keswick, Ontario, Canada (weather permitting) Jason Zwyers Wentzville, MO Fred Hulen Lee's Summit, Mo Greg Ferris Cedar Falls, IA Mike Slaughter Ft.Lauderdale,FL (back to Toronto in November) Dave Austin Oshawa, Ontario,Canada Russell Johnson Dodge City, Ks. ----------------------------------------------- I just called and made reservations at the Amerihost Motel, 573-582-0055, it is located on the south edge of Mexico, Mo., just off of Hwy 54 with easy access to the airport. Be sure and tell them that you are visiting Zenith Aircraft to receive an additional discount. Russell J. (still working on the center wing section 601-HDS) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ronbo135(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 13, 1999
Subject: smart fuel transfer switch
Attached is some more info from the manufacturer that may be of interest. I'd like to know the transfer rate from the wing tanks to header tank through 3/8" line if someone has measured it, please. Thanks, Ron Hansen Ronbo135(at)aol.com wrote: > > Nice web site and nice product. > > About how much fuel do you think would be pumped by a Facet pump in 5 > minutes? The line is 3/8" aluminum, total line length about 7' and total > rise about 2'. > > I am building a Zenair 601 which has two wing tanks of 7 gallons transferring > to a header tank of 8 gallons, so I would use timed mode for the first > transfer out of each aux tank. > > Thanks, > > Ron Hansen Ron... When we first undertook the development project, I did a bunch of transfers from one container into another. As I recall, the pump rate was about 1 to 2 gallons per minute. I could be wrong by a bit, but I know the rate is pretty puny... The next time I hook up a pump, I will make some measurements and let you know. But.... Recall from the website that in the MANUAL mode, the control switch blinks green during a transfer. When the end-of-fuel condition is detected, the switch blinks yellow. Although the pump would continue to run (in the manual mode) until it had timed out, the pilot can see the flashing yellow, and manually turn the pump off by simply pressing the control switch... Regarding the pump time. We can make a 3-minute version for you. If you'd like one done to pump for 3 minutes in the manual mode instead of 5 minutes, we'll do that for $10 extra. I'll announce that as an option, and if another person buys a 3-minute minute option, I'll refund the $10 to you. Please let me know if you have any questions. I'd REALLY like to sell some controllers to the Zenair builders! Dennis Douglas Pillar Point Avionics, Inc. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001)
Date: Aug 13, 1999
Subject: Re: PLEASE READ! - Email Weasel...
>-------------- >RE: Test from Matronics - Please Ignore - Weasel #WSN01613 > >This is totally unacceptable! I have requested several times that you >remove my e-mail address from your Spam "Weasel" and obviously it is falling >on deaf ears or eyes. We all get hit with SPAM but that does not make it >acceptable for you to contribute to it also. You have obviously assigned me >a serial number, PLEASE mark it for non-intrusive mode. I will notify you >when I am changing or canceling my e-mail address. Although I don't >contribute to the Kolb List very often, as a SlingShot builder I like to >keep up with the group. I do not wish to cancel my subscription to the >kolb-list, but please have understanding. > >Howard G. Penny >Ericsson, Inc. >(919) 472-7216 >penny(at)rtp.ericsson.se >-------------- Howard, I believe that you are substantially over-reacting to this situation. There are nearly 3000 email addresses subscribed to the Email Lists hosted here at Matronics with 200-300 email messages a day being forwarded to them. Because many people do not unsubscribe from the email Lists when their address is no longer valid, I receive megabytes worth of bounced email each day. Since I have many other more important things to do with my life than pour over thousands of bounced email messages trying to figure out just which List they are subscribed to, I have written a number of automated tools to process this excess of bounced email and automatically unsubscribe the bogus addresses. These tools as a collection are called The Email Weasel and are divided into two main tools - The Daily Weasel, and The Monthly Weasel. The Daily Weasel looks through the 5 to 10mb of bounced email each day and makes a best-guess at what the address was that caused the bounce and tries to automatically remove the address. However, because many mailers on the Internet do not conform to the "standard" email header layout, this process only affectively catches about 70% of the bogus email addresses. There are cases where someone has had their email forwarded from the email address that is subscribed to the List and the second address is actually bouncing the email and often their mailer gives no indication of what the original email address was. These and other similar cases are handled by The Monthly Weasel and requires that a single message be sent to each email address on all of the Lists with a unique serial number so that the bounced email message's subscription to to respective List can be asynchronously determined without the use of the header information and therefore can removed from the Lists if necessary. The utility afforded by the combination of these two tools has greatly reduced the amount of manual labor involved in the day-to-day operation of these email Lists and more importantly has substantially decreased the amount of time necessary to redistribute any given message to each of the subscribers on a given List. One polite automated Email Weasel message out of the 1000 to 2000 emails a month seems like a very small price to pay for the continued efficient operation of this service that is provided to you free of charge. Please remember that if you feel that these policies are too intrusive for you, you may unsubscribe at any time. Respectfully, Matt Dralle Lists Admin. Matronics >-------------- >From: testmail(at)matronics.com [mailto:testmail(at)matronics.com] >Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 12:52 AM >To: penny(at)rtp.ericsson.se >Subject: Test from Matronics - Please Ignore - Weasel #WSN01613 > > >User Serial Number: WSN01613 >User Email Address: penny(at)rtp.ericsson.se > >This is a test message to determine the source of bogus email addresses. >Please do *not* respond to this message as the test relies upon which email >addresses bounce this message. Your email address could be inadvertently >deleted from the List if you respond directly to this message. > >This test is being done to locate bad email addresses currently on one of >the following email Lists sponsored by Matronics: > > RV-List, Kolb-List, Zenith-List, Yak-List, EZ-List, Lancair-List, or >Glasair-List > >The results of this test aid in purging bad email addresses from the Lists >and can increase the performance of the email list server substantially. > >Thank you for your patience and understanding. > >Matt Dralle >Matronics >dralle(at)matronics.com >RV, Kolb, Zenith, Yak, EZ, Lancair, and Glasair List Administrator. >-------------- -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 13, 1999
Subject: Re: Rear baggage comp.
From: "Grant Corriveau" <gfcorriv(at)total.net>
Mike, Those are great ideas to make best use of that shelf. Thanks. I'm planning to install some sort of a center console from the bottom of the instrument panel to the main spar between the seats. Did you add anything there? I'm also thinking about building a box behind the seats that could serve as a place to lock up or hide a headset, etc.. I think I've 'heard' Bernie Gunn mention that he uses that space. Does anyone else? BTW - I passed a big milestone yesterday - the PRE-COVER inspection! We found a half dozen snags, easily fixed. Otherwise - so far, so good! Cheers, Grant Corriveau ---------- >From: Darla Golin <darlajean(at)earthlink.net> ... > I carpeted that rear area top and bottom, and put in a false bulkhead ... > Cheers, Mike slaughter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elkins35" <Elkins35(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Fw: email tax (no joke) FORWARDED MESSAGE from SUPPORT (SUPPORT@HW)
Date: Aug 13, 1999
Dear fellow builders, A fellow pilot sent this to me and it looks like we might have to go back to bulliten boards if this is true. Dennis Elkins 601HDS - read on. - Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 12:32 AM Subject: FWD: email tax (no joke) FORWARDED MESSAGE from SUPPORT (SUPPORT@HW) Important: Please read. Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 8:02 PM Subject: Fw: email tax (no joke) Please read the following carefully if you intend to stay on-line and continue using email: The last few months have revealed an alarming trend in the Government of the United States attempting to quietly push through legislation that will affect your use of the Internet. Under proposed legislation the US Postal Service will be attempting to bilk email users out of "alternate postage fees". Bill 602P will permit the Federal Govt. to charge a 5 cent surcharge on every email delivered, by billing Internet Service Providers at source. The consumer would then be billed in turn by the ISP. Washington, DC lawyer Richard Stepp is working without pay to prevent this legislation from becoming law. The US Postal Service is claiming that lost revenue due to the proliferation of email is costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per year. You may have noticed their recent ad campaign "There is nothing like a letter." Since the average citizen received about 10 pieces of email per day in 1998, the cost to the typical individual would be an additional 50 cents per day, or over $180 dollars per year, above and beyond their regular Internet costs. Note that this would be money paid directly to the US Postal Service for a service they do not even provide. The whole point of the Internet is democracy and noninterference. If the federal government is permitted to tamper with our liberties by adding a surcharge to email, who knows where it will end. You are already paying an exorbitant price for snail mail because of bureaucratic efficiency. It currently takes up to 6 days for a letter to be delivered from New York to Buffalo. If the US Postal Service is allowed to tinker with email, it will mark the end of the "free" Internet in the United States. One congressman, Tony Schnell (r) has even suggested a "twenty to forty dollar per month surcharge on all Internet service" above and beyond the government's proposed email charges. Note that most of the major newspapers have ignored the story, the only exception being the Washingtonian which called the idea of email surcharge "a useful concept who's time has come" (March 6th 1999 Editorial. Don't sit by and watch your freedoms erode away! Send this e-mail to EVERYONE on your list, and tell all your friends and relatives to write to their congressman and say "No!" to Bill 602P. It will only take a few moments of your time, and could very well be instrumental in killing a bill we don't want. **** NOTES from Eileen Swope (SWOPE @ HW) at 8/12/99 8:45 AM ---------------------- Internet Header -------------------------------- by hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.8) with ESMTP id OAA21399 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 13, 1999
Subject: Re: Fw: email tax - HOAX!!!
From: "Grant Corriveau" <gfcorriv(at)total.net>
HOAX! was sent to thousands in Canada a few months ago. PLEASE DO NOT respond or use up web bandwidth with this junk! Grant Corriveau Montreal ================== > Dear fellow builders, > A fellow pilot sent this to me and it looks like we might have to go back to > bulliten boards if this is true. > Dennis Elkins > 601HDS - read on. > - > Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 12:32 AM > Subject: FWD: email tax (no joke) FORWARDED MESSAGE from SUPPORT > (SUPPORT@HW) > > > Important: Please read. > > Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 8:02 PM > Subject: Fw: email tax (no joke) > > Please read the following carefully if you intend to stay on-line and > continue using email: The last few months have revealed an > alarming trend in the Government of the United States attempting > to quietly push through legislation that will affect your use of the > Internet. Under proposed legislation the US Postal Service will > be attempting to bilk email users out of "alternate postage fees". ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 13, 1999
Subject: GPS heads up to those to whom it may concern
From: "Grant Corriveau" <gfcorriv(at)total.net>
If you're using GPS you may want to check out the details pertaining to this news item I found: Fly low 'n slow, Grant Corriveau ======================= US Department of Defense is cautioning users of its satellite-based Global Positioning System (GPS) to prepare for a different kind of date rollover that will occur much sooner - this month, in fact. And this problem could afflict incoming satellite data and end up providing inaccurate information to civilian GPS receivers. . . . The GPS system calculates time by counting the number of lapsed weeks since Jan. 6, 1980. At midnight on Aug. 21, that counter will roll back to zero weeks. The US Air Force, which operates the satellites out of Schriever Air Force Base in Colorado, says the rollover won't create problems for the satellites or its ground control center. But individuals with ground receivers may encounter some navigation problems if they don't get their systems upgraded, the Air Force warns. . . . The Air Force is urging GPS users to contact their receiver manufacturers to make sure the technology is "end-of-week rollover compliant." . . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SLF998(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 14, 1999
Subject: Re: Fw: email tax (no joke) FORWARDED MESSAGE from
SUPPORT (SUPP... This is totally bogus and been circulating for months. Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Montgomery" <derman(at)gte.net>
Subject: Question ==CH701
Date: Aug 13, 1999
What is the maximum weight for the engine that i can use in my 701. Also what do i need for a reasonable horsepower? Thanks for any help ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Asp" <asp(at)jet2.net>
Subject: Re: GPS heads up to those to whom it may concern
Date: Aug 14, 1999
-----Original Message----- From: Grant Corriveau <gfcorriv(at)total.net> Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 11:10 PM Subject: Zenith-List: GPS heads up to those to whom it may concern > >If you're using GPS you may want to check out the details pertaining to this >news item I found: > >Fly low 'n slow, >Grant Corriveau >======================= > >US Department of Defense is cautioning users of its satellite-based Global >Positioning System (GPS) to prepare for a different kind of date rollover >that will occur much sooner - this month, in fact. And this problem could >afflict incoming satellite data and end up providing inaccurate information >to civilian GPS receivers. . . . > >The GPS system calculates time by counting the number of lapsed weeks since >Jan. 6, 1980. At midnight on Aug. 21, that counter will roll back to zero >weeks. > >The US Air Force, which operates the satellites out of Schriever Air Force >Base in Colorado, says the rollover won't create problems for the satellites >or its ground control center. But individuals with ground receivers may >encounter some navigation problems if they don't get their systems upgraded, >the Air Force warns. . . . > >The Air Force is urging GPS users to contact their receiver manufacturers to >make sure the technology is "end-of-week rollover compliant." . . . . Grant, Where did you get this? It sounds really fishy to me. Another "email tax" story? Why would the date on a gps have any effect on navigation? Why that date? Why should it roll back to zero? It makes no sense to me, and it sounds like someone trying to get some mileage out of the Y2K stupidity that is rampant these days. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 1999
From: Darla Golin <darlajean(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: GPS heads up to those to whom it may concern
A> >Grant, >Where did you get this? It sounds really fishy to me. Another "email >tax" story? >Why would the date on a gps have any effect on navigation? Why that date? >Why should it roll back to zero? It makes no sense to me, and it sounds >like someone trying to get some mileage out of the Y2K stupidity that is >rampant these days. > >Hi Guys, Grant is correct-this GPS week rollover problem is for real and has nothing to do with the bogus Y2K hype. Garmin has a section on it's website for details on how it's various models handle this week rollover problem. <http://www.garmin.com/> Cheers , Mike Slaughter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 1999
From: Chris Boultinghouse <zodiacbuilder(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GPS heads up to those to whom it may concern
--- Asp wrote: > Grant, > Where did you get this? It sounds really fishy to me. Another > "email > tax" story? > Why would the date on a gps have any effect on navigation? Why that > date? > Why should it roll back to zero? It makes no sense to me, and it > sounds > like someone trying to get some mileage out of the Y2K stupidity that > is > rampant these days. It was published in the August 99 Sport Aviation, in the "Hot Line" section. It's real. Contact your GPS manufacturer to make sure it can handle the GPS system time rollover. If it is a fairly new aviation unit it probably can (according to the article) but better to check. === Regards, Chris Boultinghouse Zenith CH-601HDS sn 6-3951 http://members.tripod.com/zodiacbuilder ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 1999
From: db8 <db8(at)mtco.com>
Subject: Re: Question ==CH701
Larry Montgomery wrote: > > > What is the maximum weight for the engine that i can use in my 701. > Also what do i need for a reasonable horsepower? Thanks for any help > A 701 will fly with a 50 hp Rotax 503 (fan cooled version). The first prototype had an air cooled 503 of 52 HP. It is not so much a question of how much horsepower you need as how much thrust. According to Chris several years ago you need a minimum of 260 lbs of static thrust for adequate flight in a 701 but of course if the engine is especially heavy you are impacting the load capacity and eventually the amount of thrust needed to fly. Dick Baner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 1999
From: Darla Golin <darlajean(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rear baggage comp.
> >Mike, >Those are great ideas to make best use of that shelf. Thanks. > >I'm planning to install some sort of a center console from the bottom of the >instrument panel to the main spar between the seats. Did you add anything >there? > >I'm also thinking about building a box behind the seats that could serve as >a place to lock up or hide a headset, etc.. I think I've 'heard' Bernie Gunn >mention that he uses that space. Does anyone else? > >BTW - I passed a big milestone yesterday - the PRE-COVER inspection! We >found a half dozen snags, easily fixed. Otherwise - so far, so good! > >Cheers, >Grant Corriveau > >Hi Grant, Way to go on the pre-cover! I do have a center console that houses my transponder at top and and com radio below. I also have a bracket attached behind the console where I've mounted the remote fuel shut-off. The entire console is attached with rivnuts for easy removal, and covered with the same material as the inst panel. It looks good, saves space in the panel, and provides considerable extra bracing. I seriously considered a lock-box behind the seats for the headsets and such, but opted instead for the false bulkhead on the rear shelf. Biggest problem I saw was actually getting to the box. You wouldn't want to be pulling the seats out each time you need access, so you need some sort of hole in the seatback, and that meant a hole in the upholstery and so on..... Also, you'll also find yourself at some point after completion wriggling back into the rear of the aircraft for SOMETHING you need to do back there, and I figured a box big enough to house 2 headset(and more) would really get in the way. The only thing I did mount behind the seatback (right side) is the ELT, with the remote on the panel. Cheers, Mike Slaughter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Newell" <anewell(at)canuck.com>
Subject: Re: Forward fuse top skin
Date: Aug 14, 1999
Ron: I've never had any problem with mine. This includes flying in some fairly heavy rain. It's built strictly according to the plans. Regards, Alan Newell, Calgary, Alberta, Canada ---------- > From: Ronbo135(at)aol.com > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Forward fuse top skin > Date: August 12, 1999 9:31 AM > > > Group, I am about to cut the forward top skin and remembered some folks > saying they had some flex in flight under the canopy and others saying that > they could use some reinforcement at the top of the instrument panel. > > Would anyone recommend using thicker metal for this? I have enough spare > material to do this. I'm installing the forward hinging canopy. > > Thanks, > > Ron Hansen > 601HDS scratchbuilding ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Newell" <anewell(at)canuck.com>
Subject: Re: GPS heads up to those to whom it may concern
Date: Aug 14, 1999
Grant: I heard the same thing and checked it out with Lowrance when I was at Oshkosh. The tech rep said that the worst impact would be that the unit would do a "cold start" rather than the normal start that happens when the unit "remembers" where is was when it was shut down. Presumably if you were in flight when this happened you'd loose position info for a few minutes. Mine is a low cost non-aviation unit that is about a year old. Regards, Alan Newell, Calgary, Alberta, Canada ---------- > From: Grant Corriveau <gfcorriv(at)total.net> > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: GPS heads up to those to whom it may concern > Date: August 13, 1999 9:04 PM > > > If you're using GPS you may want to check out the details pertaining to this > news item I found: > > Fly low 'n slow, > Grant Corriveau > ======================= > > US Department of Defense is cautioning users of its satellite-based Global > Positioning System (GPS) to prepare for a different kind of date rollover > that will occur much sooner - this month, in fact. And this problem could > afflict incoming satellite data and end up providing inaccurate information > to civilian GPS receivers. . . . > > The GPS system calculates time by counting the number of lapsed weeks since > Jan. 6, 1980. At midnight on Aug. 21, that counter will roll back to zero > weeks. > > The US Air Force, which operates the satellites out of Schriever Air Force > Base in Colorado, says the rollover won't create problems for the satellites > or its ground control center. But individuals with ground receivers may > encounter some navigation problems if they don't get their systems upgraded, > the Air Force warns. . . . > > The Air Force is urging GPS users to contact their receiver manufacturers to > make sure the technology is "end-of-week rollover compliant." . . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SLF998(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 14, 1999
Subject: Re: GPS heads up to those to whom it may concern
<< www.garmin.com >> I went to the Garmin web site and according to their info all except their older units will not require any special treatment. Those of you flying the GPS III pilot need not worry. Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kent Brown" <kbplanner(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: GPS heads up to those to whom it may concern
Date: Aug 14, 1999
This one is real. If you have a GPS, especially an older one, check with the manufacturer to see if it's going to be accurate after the rollover date. The whole system was set up to run 1000+ weeks (1024?), then "rollover" and reset to zero. This will confuse some GPS models, and they will not give accurate info. Kent ----- Original Message ----- From: Asp <asp(at)jet2.net> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 1999 4:40 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS heads up to those to whom it may concern > Grant, > Where did you get this? It sounds really fishy to me. Another "email > tax" story? > Why would the date on a gps have any effect on navigation? Why that date? > Why should it roll back to zero? It makes no sense to me, and it sounds > like someone trying to get some mileage out of the Y2K stupidity that is > rampant these days. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net>
Subject: Re: GPS heads up to those to whom it may concern
Date: Aug 14, 1999
>I went to the Garmin web site and according to their info all except their >older units will not require any special treatment. I use a Lowrance Airmap 300 and the Lowrance web site does not mention anything about this rollover concern. I sent them an e-mail. Waiting for reply. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck" <cps(at)tisd.net>
Subject: Wing Splice
Date: Aug 14, 1999
I've had my wings back off for a while , but remember that I could not get a very attractive wing-cover splice on the leading edge of either wing. Open to any and all soulotions or do I live with a 1/2" gap? Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 1999
From: Darla Golin <darlajean(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Splice
> >I've had my wings back off for a while , but remember that I could not get a >very attractive wing-cover splice on the leading edge of either wing. Open >to any and all soulotions or do I live with a 1/2" gap? >Chuck > >Hey Chuck, I found with the HD wings, I could make a smooth wing splice cover, but the HDS wings pose a different problem. I ended up narrowing the cover starting from the spar rivet line down around the leading edge. That helps some, but I still have a 1/4 inch gap. Short of some nifty tin bashing on a English Wheel, or a fibrglass cover, not sure how you'd fix the problem. Cheers, Mike slaughter > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 1999
From: Norris <rnorris4(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Splice
Chuck, Unfortunately the gap area wants to be covered with something that has a compound curve in it, and that is hard to do with 6061 Al. I plan to make a fiberglass cover and not bother with the Al one. Just a couple of layers is all that's needed. Another option would be to use 1100 or 3003 Al as those are much softer and easier to form. Also harder to find in sheet form. Chuck wrote: > > > I've had my wings back off for a while , but remember that I could not get a > very attractive wing-cover splice on the leading edge of either wing. Open > to any and all soulotions or do I live with a 1/2" gap? > Chuck > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Fetzer" <george.f(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Splice
Date: Aug 14, 1999
I laid up some glass over the leading edge on the HDS and extended it with the aluminum supplied in the kit. The glass extends back a few inches top and bottom and fits like a glove. I moved the tension bolt rearward near the aileron horn. This longer bottom strip covers a not-so-nice fit I have of the bottom skins. George -----Original Message----- From: Chuck <cps(at)tisd.net> Date: Saturday, August 14, 1999 4:27 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Wing Splice > >I've had my wings back off for a while , but remember that I could not get a >very attractive wing-cover splice on the leading edge of either wing. Open >to any and all soulotions or do I live with a 1/2" gap? >Chuck > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 1999
From: Chuck Deiterich <cfd(at)tstar.net>
Subject: Re: GPS heads up to those to whom it may concern
I heard about this somewhere else a few months ago and it seems like it was from a valid source. Chuck Asp wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Grant Corriveau <gfcorriv(at)total.net> > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 11:10 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: GPS heads up to those to whom it may concern > > > > >If you're using GPS you may want to check out the details pertaining to > this > >news item I found: > > > >Fly low 'n slow, > >Grant Corriveau > >======================= > > > >US Department of Defense is cautioning users of its satellite-based Global > >Positioning System (GPS) to prepare for a different kind of date rollover > >that will occur much sooner - this month, in fact. And this problem could > >afflict incoming satellite data and end up providing inaccurate information > >to civilian GPS receivers. . . . > > > >The GPS system calculates time by counting the number of lapsed weeks since > >Jan. 6, 1980. At midnight on Aug. 21, that counter will roll back to zero > >weeks. > > > >The US Air Force, which operates the satellites out of Schriever Air Force > >Base in Colorado, says the rollover won't create problems for the > satellites > >or its ground control center. But individuals with ground receivers may > >encounter some navigation problems if they don't get their systems > upgraded, > >the Air Force warns. . . . > > > >The Air Force is urging GPS users to contact their receiver manufacturers > to > >make sure the technology is "end-of-week rollover compliant." . . . . > > Grant, > Where did you get this? It sounds really fishy to me. Another "email > tax" story? > Why would the date on a gps have any effect on navigation? Why that date? > Why should it roll back to zero? It makes no sense to me, and it sounds > like someone trying to get some mileage out of the Y2K stupidity that is > rampant these days. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Melanie @ Thilo Kind" <m_tkind(at)sprynet.com>
Subject: Steering Rods
Date: Aug 15, 1999
Hi folks, yesterday I installed the Steering Rods (trycicle gear). The plans (6F17 left bottom corner) call for a length of 397 mm(left) and 417 (right). That turned out way too long in my case. I cut them somewhat shorter. They are now installed and everything works fine. However, anybody has an idea what the problem might be? The rudder pedals are installed according to plans with the left lateral pedal bearing touching the forward edge of the heel support. Otherwise everything looks fine. Can't come to the open hangar day in exico - will be on a business trip on the 28th. Thilo Kind ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 1999
Subject: Re: Steering Rods
From: "Grant Corriveau" <gfcorriv(at)total.net>
Thilo, I also found the listed dimensions to be too long. I meant to ask about it but forgot. I suppose it's just a mistake in the plans... a 'carryover' from the original CH600 with a smaller cockpit?? (ie rudder pedals further away??).. I can't really believe that I managed to build the fuselage about 100 mm too short in the front end!!! (but anything's possible ;-> Grant ---------- >From: "Melanie @ Thilo Kind" <m_tkind(at)sprynet.com> >To: "'Zenith List'" >Subject: Zenith-List: Steering Rods >Date: Sun, Aug 15, 1999, 9:37 AM > > > Hi folks, > > yesterday I installed the Steering Rods (trycicle gear). The plans (6F17 > left bottom corner) call for a length of 397 mm(left) and 417 (right). That > turned out way too long in my case. I cut them somewhat shorter. They are > now installed and everything works fine. However, anybody has an idea what > the problem might be? The rudder pedals are installed according to plans > with the left lateral pedal bearing touching the forward edge of the heel > support. > > Otherwise everything looks fine. Can't come to the open hangar day in > exico - will be on a business trip on the 28th. > > Thilo Kind > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Schallgren(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 15, 1999
Subject: Re: Steering Rods
In regards to length of steering rods, I measured mine and they are 300mm and 324 respectively. I concur with comment that 397/417 mm is an error resulting from earlier aircraft. Stan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sam Cajun" <sam.caj(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Question ==CH701
Date: Aug 15, 1999
I think I recall Zenair recommending a 171 lb upper limit but... Take a look (links below) at the photo library for the 701 and you will see cont. O200(210+ lb), subaru(215+ lb), suzuki(200+ lb) powered 701s. Also, a gentleman living in the Congo (a member of this list sometime back) was flying a 701 powered by an O200. His only complaint as I recall was fuel capacity. (check the archives, keyword congo). With these engines I suspect one would have to give major thought to cg. http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-photo8.htm http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-photo5.htm Sam >Larry Montgomery wrote: >> >> >> What is the maximum weight for the engine that i can use in my 701. >> Also what do i need for a reasonable horsepower? Thanks for any help >> >A 701 will fly with a 50 hp Rotax 503 (fan cooled version). The first >prototype had an air cooled 503 of 52 HP. It is not so much a question >of how much horsepower you need as how much thrust. According to Chris >several years ago you need a minimum of 260 lbs of static thrust for >adequate flight in a 701 but of course if the engine is especially heavy >you are impacting the load capacity and eventually the amount of thrust >needed to fly. Dick Baner >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 1999
From: Dan Knezacek <dknezace(at)bconnex.net>
Subject: Re: GPS heads up to those to whom it may concern
Those flying with a GPS may want to fly by dead reconning, using their GPS as a back up only, until this "bug" is no longer a danger. Of course you guys are too smart to trust your lives to a little electronic box anyway? Right? :-) I don't believe this is some kind of Y2K hoax. I heard of this problem some time ago and believe it's genuine. As far as the question: "Why would the date on a gps have any effect on navigation?" All I know is that the GPS system is constantly using time to calculate position. If you have the wrong time you have the wrong position, it's that simple. Dan Knezacek (I'll buy my GPS in the new year when the january sales are on) >> > >> >Fly low 'n slow, >> >Grant Corriveau >> >======================= >> > >> >US Department of Defense is cautioning users of its satellite-based Global >> >Positioning System (GPS) to prepare for a different kind of date rollover >> >that will occur much sooner - this month, in fact. And this problem could >> >afflict incoming satellite data and end up providing inaccurate information >> >to civilian GPS receivers. . . . >> > >> >The GPS system calculates time by counting the number of lapsed weeks since >> >Jan. 6, 1980. At midnight on Aug. 21, that counter will roll back to zero >> >weeks. >> > >> >The US Air Force, which operates the satellites out of Schriever Air Force >> >Base in Colorado, says the rollover won't create problems for the >> satellites >> >or its ground control center. But individuals with ground receivers may >> >encounter some navigation problems if they don't get their systems >> upgraded, >> >the Air Force warns. . . . >> > >> >The Air Force is urging GPS users to contact their receiver manufacturers >> to >> >make sure the technology is "end-of-week rollover compliant." . . . . >> >> Grant, >> Where did you get this? It sounds really fishy to me. Another "email >> tax" story? >> Why would the date on a gps have any effect on navigation? Why that date? >> Why should it roll back to zero? It makes no sense to me, and it sounds >> like someone trying to get some mileage out of the Y2K stupidity that is >> rampant these days. >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 1999
From: "P.J. Larson" <pjl(at)cass.net>
Subject: Re: Question ==CH701
larry i was told a couple of years ago by chris heintz that he did not want more than 170# hanging on the front. i am going to use a chevy turbo sprint ( 3 cylinder suzuki ) with raven redrive on my 701. hope this was of help. pat larson pjl(at)cass.net Larry Montgomery wrote: > > What is the maximum weight for the engine that i can use in my 701. > Also what do i need for a reasonable horsepower? Thanks for any help > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 1999
From: Darla Golin <darlajean(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Florida builders
Hi Guys, At our Florida builders get together last month, one of the guys mentioned to me a neat place to fly into on the NW Florida coast. I've lost that info. Whoever that was, can you email me that info directly? Cheers, Mike Slaughter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SkyKingN(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 15, 1999
Subject: Re: Open Hanger Day List Attendees list
by the way, does anyone know when the open hanger day is??? I have been out of touch for a while ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Melanie @ Thilo Kind" <m_tkind(at)sprynet.com>
Subject: Steering Rods
Date: Aug 15, 1999
Hi Grant, I also had a difference of round about 100 mm. Made me wonder. Normally, the plans are very accurate. Seems really to be an error in the plans. Thilo Kind > > Thilo, > I also found the listed dimensions to be too long. I meant to > ask about it > but forgot. I suppose it's just a mistake in the plans... a > 'carryover' from > the original CH600 with a smaller cockpit?? (ie rudder pedals further > away??).. I can't really believe that I managed to build the > fuselage about > 100 mm too short in the front end!!! (but anything's possible ;-> > > Grant > > ---------- > >From: "Melanie @ Thilo Kind" <m_tkind(at)sprynet.com> > >To: "'Zenith List'" > >Subject: Zenith-List: Steering Rods > >Date: Sun, Aug 15, 1999, 9:37 AM > > > > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > yesterday I installed the Steering Rods (trycicle gear). > The plans (6F17 > > left bottom corner) call for a length of 397 mm(left) and > 417 (right). That > > turned out way too long in my case. I cut them somewhat > shorter. They are > > now installed and everything works fine. However, anybody > has an idea what > > the problem might be? The rudder pedals are installed > according to plans > > with the left lateral pedal bearing touching the forward > edge of the heel > > support. > > > > Otherwise everything looks fine. Can't come to the open > hangar day in > > exico - will be on a business trip on the 28th. > > > > Thilo Kind > > > > > > > > > ------------- > > ------------- > Zenith-List: > http://www.matronics.com/zenith-list > List > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe > Other Email > Lists: http://www.matronics.com/other > > ------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 1999
From: Glen Chapple <sims(at)recorder.ca>
Subject: Re: GPS heads up to those to whom it may concern
> >Those flying with a GPS may want to fly by dead reconning, using their GPS >as a back up only, until this "bug" is no longer a danger. Of course you >guys are too smart to trust your lives to a little electronic box anyway? >Right? :-) > >I don't believe this is some kind of Y2K hoax. I heard of this problem >some time ago and believe it's genuine. > >As far as the question: "Why would the date on a gps have any effect on >navigation?" > >All I know is that the GPS system is constantly using time to calculate >position. If you have the wrong time you have the wrong position, it's >that simple. > >Dan Knezacek >(I'll buy my GPS in the new year when the january sales are on) Dan. I've just finished downloading software from the Garmin site for use on or after the 22nd of this month. Reading the fine print it sounds like no adjustment is necessary as long as you allow the gps to re acquire the sats. Use of the software instantly resets the internal clock of the unit. I quote frome their site "Use of this software is NOT REQUIRED for these units but will eliminate a tempory period of slow acquisition." The whole process is called an EOW(end of week) Rollover/Y2K. For further info check out www.garmin.com FWIW Glen RAA #1114 CH-701 & Subaru EA-81 with Ross redrive (Both under construction) Amphibs ready to fly ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Melanie @ Thilo Kind" <m_tkind(at)sprynet.com>
Subject: Engine Mount
Date: Aug 15, 1999
Hi everybody, yesterday I unpacked the engine mount (for Rotax 912). Anybody with some tips how to install the engine mount, i. e. how to determine the right position for the bolt holes, how to offset the trust line (3 degrees), etc.? Thilo Kind ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 1999
From: Norris <rnorris4(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: GPS heads up to those to whom it may concern
All GPS users, The position, time, and date in the receiver is used to estimate the position of the satellites before receiving their signals. The GPS receiver needs to know which satellites it can 'see' and approximately where they are if it is to acquire a good signal quickly. Otherwise, the trial and error method of signal acquisition can take about 20 minutes. If the date is off, then the receiver must check all the satellites in turn, and listen for a long time to each one before it can be sure it has found it. The signal put out by the satellite is actually at a lower amplitude than the surrounding noise, what we engineers call a signal to noise ratio of less than one. GPS receivers can get away with such a setup because the satellite's serial number, position, and the date & time are part of the signal, and the GPS receiver knows exactly what to expect IF it knows the correct date, time, and approximate position of itself, and the fact that the signal is repeated many times, so the signal strength builds with each repetition. This process is analogous to you being able to understand what someone is saying without actually hearing all the words IF you can see their lips move AND you know approximately what they're going to say, and is greatly enhanced if they repeat themselves many times. The less you know about what they are saying, the less likely you will be able to comprehend them, which may extend all the way to the point where you can't understand them even if you CAN hear all the words. BTW, according to the folks at IIMorrow (now UPS Technologies?), the Precedus (any software rev) will function w/o problems through the rollover. Rob Norris Center wing, 601HDS Glen Chapple wrote: > >I don't believe this is some kind of Y2K hoax. I heard of this problem > >some time ago and believe it's genuine. > > > >As far as the question: "Why would the date on a gps have any effect on > >navigation?" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 1999
Subject: Re: Engine Mount
From: "James Ashford" <jashford1(at)earthlink.net>
Thilo, Specific measurements for location of bolt holes are detailed on 6-F-8. The engine mount has a slight flex capability so if your holes and mount don't exactly line up, you can flex the mount. As it is a ZAC furnished mount, I'm sure the thrust line, both vertical and horizontal has been correctly built in. After mounting the engine in accordance with ZAC's instructions, I found that the coolant lines would chaff against the aft mounting bracket, E2-1X. I managed to slightly readjust the coolant lines but it required the use of cable clamps with straps to an appropriate engine anchor to insure positive separation of the coolant lines from E2-1X . I also used Nick's recently developed oil cooler mounting bracket which places the oil cooler at the front of the engine just under the prop shaft. A neat installation though I found the oil line routing to be a puzzle. If you have the kit and have questions, feel free to query me direct and I will send you some digital photos of how I handled it. Good luck, Jim Ashford 912 601 HDS N 601Q, 90% done, 50% to go ---------- >From: "Melanie @ Thilo Kind" <m_tkind(at)sprynet.com> >To: "'Zenith List'" >Subject: Zenith-List: Engine Mount >Date: Mon, Aug 16, 1999, 1:09 AM > > > Hi everybody, > > yesterday I unpacked the engine mount (for Rotax 912). Anybody with some > tips how to install the engine mount, i. e. how to determine the right > position for the bolt holes, how to offset the trust line (3 degrees), etc.? > > Thilo Kind > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Rust protection for steel parts...
Date: Aug 15, 1999
Hi Everyone, Was looking in the archives and found that some builders are using Hot Linseed Oil to rust protect the steel parts. Was hoping someone could tell me where to purchase this oil and if any guides available on how to apply, etc. Thanks! Don Honabach - Tempe, AZ (601HDS, Center Wing Section, http://www.pcperfect.com/zodiac - A Builder's Chronicle) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ldpahnke" <ldpahnke(at)mvn.net>
Subject: Re: Rust protection for steel parts...
Date: Aug 15, 1999
Home Depot has it in the paint section. Instructions on quart cans. Watch out , it is capable of spontaneous combustion. Doug P. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 1999
From: Bill Morelli <billvt(at)together.net>
Subject: Re: Rust protection for steel parts...
>it is capable of spontaneous combustion. Doug P. > Don, I would like to reiterate what Doug said. Linseed oil can spontaneous combust. It is especially prone if you wipe up the excess with rags and such and throw these in the garbage. As the oil dries, the temperature goes up. What I did was to use paper towels for all of my cleanup and at the end of the day I would burn the paper in a metal garbage can outside. I also purchased the oil a Home Depot. It comes in a quart can and that was plenty to do the control stick, steps, gear legs, etc. I put the oil in an old coffee can, warmed it on a small camping stove (outside) and then poured it into the various steel components to coat the inside. It seems to work much better when warmed as it gets into all nooks and crannies. You will have to plug various holes temporarily to keep the stuff in. Then I would pour out the excess and hang the parts over a bucket to drip dry. After a couple of days the oil starts to set up and when dry creates this coating that helps prevent rust. Regards, Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Tannock" <James.Tannock(at)nottingham.ac.uk>
Date: Aug 16, 1999
Subject: Re: GPS heads up to those to whom it may concern
Some of the older GPS units like my Garmin 55 will have trouble with the week number rollover next week. Looking at the Garmin web sight you can either download the software and buy a cable to connect it to your PC to reset the system, or you can do a 'master reset' (pressing a certain key when powering up - not documented in the handbook). This wipes all your waypoints and routes. The unit is then 'born again' and can search the sky for satellites, which can take 20-30 minutes. All should then be well. I'm hoping! James Tannock Nottingham England 601HD Fitting out firewall and IP. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: asp(at)jet2.net
Date: Aug 16, 1999
Subject: EOW rollover
Yup, I guess it's no hoax. I checked the Magellan site, since no one mentioned it and if you have a Meridian XL, (or any of quite a few of their gps units), it's EOW and Y2K compliant. Check the following address if you have a Magellan GPS. http://www.magellangps.com/frames/frame5.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Rust protection for steel parts...
Date: Aug 16, 1999
Paint store! Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) -----Original Message----- From: Don Honabach <don(at)pcperfect.com> Date: Sunday, August 15, 1999 10:16 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Rust protection for steel parts... > >Hi Everyone, > >Was looking in the archives and found that some builders are using Hot >Linseed Oil to rust protect the steel parts. Was hoping someone could tell >me where to purchase this oil and if any guides available on how to apply, >etc. > >Thanks! >Don Honabach - Tempe, AZ (601HDS, Center Wing Section, >http://www.pcperfect.com/zodiac - A Builder's Chronicle) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 1999
From: Carlos Sa <wings(at)axess.com>
Subject: Straightedge
Hello I'd like to know what you are using as a straightedge. Yesterday I bought a router and was trimming some long, straight pieces. The straightedge I was using was a 12" x 96" particle board shelf with some plastic covering, used to make shelves. I decided to verify how straight it was, and I found it has a 1/16" bow in the middle. Somebody said he used a 8' long piece of MDF. If I use this, how can I be sure the cut will be straight?? [For those interested, I decided to "outsource" the bending of all pieces thicker than .032", along with everything that does not fit in my bending brake (>4 feet)] Thanks Carlos (Not much accomplished and frustrated at every step) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell" <entec1(at)pld.com>
Subject: Re: Straightedge
Date: Aug 16, 1999
> I'd like to know what you are using as a straightedge. > Yesterday I bought a router and was trimming some long, straight pieces. > The straightedge I was using was a 12" x 96" particle board shelf with > some plastic covering, used to make shelves. > I decided to verify how straight it was, and I found it has a 1/16" bow > in the middle. > Somebody said he used a 8' long piece of MDF. If I use this, how can I > be sure the cut will be straight?? Your local lumber yard or building supply should have an 8' long metal straight edge that is used for cutting sheetrock. They usually are made in two pieces that are joined together with a center splice that is locked inplace with setscrews. Russell J. \ 601-hds ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 1999
From: Darla Golin <darlajean(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Mount
A>After mounting the engine in accordance with ZAC's instructions, I found >that the coolant lines would chaff against the aft mounting bracket, E2-1X. >I managed to slightly readjust the coolant lines but it required the use of >cable clamps with straps to an appropriate engine anchor to insure positive >separation of the coolant lines from E2-1X . > Hi Guys, I solved this problem by slicing some 1" rad coolant hose in half, and wrapping it around the existing coolant lines where they chafe on the moumt. Attach with tie wraps. This has worked for 800+ hours. You might need to replace the tie wraps after a few hundred hours. Cheers, Mike Slaughter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "AYRES, JIMMY L" <JAYRES(at)entergy.com>
Subject: Canopy cracking
Date: Aug 16, 1999
Hello Guys, I thought I should warn y'all about something I did over the weekend which resulted in two cracks in my bubble. I completed all of the drilling on my bubble with no cracks and was very happy. Then, while riveting the inner and out aluminum side frame panels on the canopy, I had a sudden and complete loss of brain activity. The drawings (CF-13) shows the outer side frame to be trimmed even with the canopy edge. This piece is several inches long and must be secured. So, I riveted it to the bubble. The problem was that a I forgot to put a back plate behind the bubble. And when I pulled the second rivet, it cracked at both of the rivets. I stop-drilled the cracks (about 2-3 inches each) and I am hoping that one of the those auto windshield repair places can repair/hide the cracks. Anyway, just a rather lengthy story to say always use a back plate behind the bubble when riveting. Jimmy Ayres 601HDS (almost finished with canopy) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 1999
From: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Canopy cracking
Jimmy; Pacer "Poly Zap" available at hobby shops will glue the cracks very securely. It is an instant glue "cyano" that is specially formulated for plastics. Not one of several small cracks on my original canopy ever let go. Mike "AYRES, JIMMY L" wrote: > > Hello Guys, > > I thought I should warn y'all about something I did over the weekend which > resulted in two cracks in my bubble. > I completed all of the drilling on my bubble with no cracks and was very > happy. Then, while riveting the inner and out aluminum side frame panels on > the canopy, I had a sudden and complete loss of brain activity. The > drawings (CF-13) shows the outer side frame to be trimmed even with the > canopy edge. This piece is several inches long and must be secured. So, I > riveted it to the bubble. The problem was that a I forgot to put a back > plate behind the bubble. And when I pulled the second rivet, it cracked at > both of the rivets. I stop-drilled the cracks (about 2-3 inches each) and I > am hoping that one of the those auto windshield repair places can > repair/hide the cracks. Anyway, just a rather lengthy story to say always > use a back plate behind the bubble when riveting. > > Jimmy Ayres > 601HDS > (almost finished with canopy) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AWilson62(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 16, 1999
Subject: Re: Straightedge
I bought an 8ft long 2" wide aluminum flat piece it is about 1/8 inch thick. I used it throughout my scratch built 701 and I couldn't have done without it. The wider the better. My 701 flys great so I must have built it straight. Also fishing line pulled tight has no substitute for a straight line. also small 4 foot pieces of aluminum also. Alan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AWilson62(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 16, 1999
Subject: Re: Straightedge
you can get the metal straight edge at a hardware store. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SkyKingN(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 16, 1999
Subject: Re: Rust protection for steel parts...
Don, you can purchase linseed oil at your local hardware store, HQ, HD, or any paint supplier ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SkyKingN(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 16, 1999
Subject: Re: Straightedge
Carlos, I use a stright edge that is sold at most lumber yards, it is used for a guide when cutting plywood sheets or paneling, believe you can find it at HQ, Home Depot, and the alike type stores. It comes with clamps and is 8 foot 6 inches in length and about 4 inches wide. I used it for a lot of things while building. You can also get levels that are over 6 feet in length, they make great striaght edges, Neil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "AYRES, JIMMY L" <JAYRES(at)entergy.com>
Subject: Canopy cracking
Date: Aug 17, 1999
Mike, Thanks for the info. Look forward to seeing you at Zenith's Open Hanger Day. Jimmy -----Original Message----- From: Mike Fothergill [mailto:mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca] Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 4:06 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy cracking Jimmy; Pacer "Poly Zap" available at hobby shops will glue the cracks very securely. It is an instant glue "cyano" that is specially formulated for plastics. Not one of several small cracks on my original canopy ever let go. Mike "AYRES, JIMMY L" wrote: > > Hello Guys, > > I thought I should warn y'all about something I did over the weekend which > resulted in two cracks in my bubble. > I completed all of the drilling on my bubble with no cracks and was very > happy. Then, while riveting the inner and out aluminum side frame panels on > the canopy, I had a sudden and complete loss of brain activity. The > drawings (CF-13) shows the outer side frame to be trimmed even with the > canopy edge. This piece is several inches long and must be secured. So, I > riveted it to the bubble. The problem was that a I forgot to put a back > plate behind the bubble. And when I pulled the second rivet, it cracked at > both of the rivets. I stop-drilled the cracks (about 2-3 inches each) and I > am hoping that one of the those auto windshield repair places can > repair/hide the cracks. Anyway, just a rather lengthy story to say always > use a back plate behind the bubble when riveting. > > Jimmy Ayres > 601HDS > (almost finished with canopy) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net>
Subject: ELT's and such
Date: Aug 17, 1999
1 - I want to order my ELT. Looking through the catalogs I see several models and various prices. Is there some features I should be looking for? Is there a big difference between the cheapest versus the most expensive? 2 - I assume the ELT comes with an antenna and seems logical that it would be mounted on the top rear fuselage? 3 - On the Cessnas that I fly, the com antenna is mounted on the top and transponder antenna on the bottom. Seems like it would be better with the com antenna on the bottom also since you are usually talking to the ground. I guess my question is, on the Zodiac are the antennas typically mounted ELT top rear, COM and TRANSPONDER on bottom? Thanks, Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 1999
From: Darla Golin <darlajean(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: ELT's and such
> >1 - I want to order my ELT. Looking through the catalogs I see several >models and various prices. Is there some features I should be looking for? >Is there a big difference between the cheapest versus the most expensive? > >2 - I assume the ELT comes with an antenna and seems logical that it would >be mounted on the top rear fuselage? > >3 - On the Cessnas that I fly, the com antenna is mounted on the top and >transponder antenna on the bottom. Seems like it would be better with the >com antenna on the bottom also since you are usually talking to the ground. >I guess my question is, on the Zodiac are the antennas typically mounted ELT >top rear, COM and TRANSPONDER on bottom? > >Thanks, >Bill > >Hi Bill, I'm sure you'll get other opinions, but here's mine. I bought the Ameri-King AK-450. It was $180 at Oshkosh 3 years ago, and I see in the A/S catalog it's still $184. It comes with a mounting bracket which I modified, and mounted it behind the seat on the right side. The unit has a remote head (for testing and reset) that I mounted on the panel. This particular ELT allows you to plug in a microphone and actually talk on 121.5 in a rescue situation. It came with the antenna, which I mounted on the top of the fuse, about a foot behind the com ant. My transponder ant is located under the fuse. The unit came with 8 D size Duracells, which also saves about $10. Geez, I sound like an ad. Cheers, Mike Slaughter > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Over Voltage Question
>I performed my first engine run in my RV-4 the other day,, and all went >very well, except for a problem with excessive (excessive to me anyway) >voltage. I have a standard, "Vans-issue 35amp alternator with a sealed, >solid state voltage regulater,,, again, from Vans. I am using your crowbar >OV protection module and I have a standard setup of a split-type master, >with a field circuit protected with a 5amp breaker. > >The voltage ranged from 15.1 to as high as 15.8v. Now, I only ran it twice >for five minutes per run so I didn't allow myself to much time for >troubleshooting. >I am fairly confident in the reliability of the voltmeter, curtesy of a >VM1000 which shows a "normal" bus voltage of 12.3 with the engine not >running. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe your OV module triggers at >16v?? In any case, the field breaker did not trip but this still seems very >odd to me as the regulator is pre-set at the factory at 13.8v,, or so I >have been told. A regulator can be confused into believing that the bus voltage is too low and causing the system voltage to run too high. This happens when there is excessive voltage drop between the alternator's output terminals and the regulator. The problem is generally caused You're correct that our OV modules are set for 16.0 to 16.5 volts with 16.2 being the room temperaure nominal. The readings you were getting are too low to cause the ovm to trip . . . but getting close. Do you have a voltmeter with some long leads? There are a couple of measurements that would be good to know: While the engine is running and the VM1000 is reporting a high bus voltage, what is: (1) voltage at the regulator's input and ground terminals? (2) voltage across the battery posts? (3) voltage from alternator b-lead and alternator case? If all these voltages are within a few hundred millivolts of the VM1000 reading, then the regulator is bad. If the regulator input voltage (1) is 13.8 and other voltages high, then we need to diagnose some excessive wiring or ground voltage drops. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < Independence Kansas: the > < Jurassic Park of aviation. > < Your source for brand new > < 40 year old airplanes. > ================================= http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 1999
From: Dan Knezacek <dknezace(at)bconnex.net>
Subject: Re: Rust protection for steel parts...
Regarding Linseed oil, Morgan Williams, the designer/builder of the North Star kitplane, cut open a tube that had been treated years earlier with linseed oil. He found that the oil had hardened and shrunk to the size of a straw, pulling away from the sides and performing no usefull function whatsoever. If your welds are air tight, and there are no holes in the tubes, it will use up the oxygen very quickly and then cease to rust. Dan 601 HD > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net>
Subject: Trim Servos
Date: Aug 18, 1999
I read an article a while back about an aircraft crash that was attributed to runaway trim. I guess in that particular aircraft (do not remember what make) if the trim servo decided to go full deflection, the aircraft was difficult if not impossible to control!! My question is, how does the 601 HDS act with the elevator and / or aileron trims at full deflection? Is it still controllable? I'm sure the Mac servos are extremely reliable but you never know. Thanks, Bill Morelli - Vermont 601HDS - N812BM up on it's wheels and tail group installed (looks great) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 18, 1999
Subject: Re: Trim Servos
From: "James Ashford" <jashford1(at)earthlink.net>
Bill, I know of another accident (USAF in 1955) for the same reason. I flew in the Fly Pass 912 601 HD in July, and the elevator trim was extremely sensitive. I suggested to Art that he should decrease the size of the tab. He replied that the tab should be big enough to control pitch at low speeds which makes sense to me. If you accept that, then it is reasonable to make the tab as small as possible while still providing low speed control, even if higher(cruise) speed trim is sensitive. Jim Ashford Wings fitted today,great leading edge match on right side, so so on left. ---------- >From: "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net> >To: "Zenith List" >Subject: Zenith-List: Trim Servos >Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999, 3:57 PM > > > I read an article a while back about an aircraft crash that was attributed > to runaway trim. > > I guess in that particular aircraft (do not remember what make) if the trim > servo decided to go full deflection, the aircraft was difficult if not > impossible to control!! > > My question is, how does the 601 HDS act with the elevator and / or aileron > trims at full deflection? Is it still controllable? I'm sure the Mac servos > are extremely reliable but you never know. > > Thanks, > Bill Morelli - Vermont > 601HDS - N812BM > up on it's wheels and tail group installed (looks great) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 1999
From: Fred Hulen <fhulen(at)gabs.net>
Subject: Re:Trim Servos/Tab size
>I flew in the Fly Pass 912 601 HD in July, and the elevator trim was >extremely sensitive. I suggested to Art that he should decrease the size of >the tab. He replied that the tab should be big enough to control pitch at >low speeds which makes sense to me. If you accept that, then it is >reasonable to make the tab as small as possible while still providing low >speed control, even if higher(cruise) speed trim is sensitive. ++++ So where are we now, with the new trim tab system being part of the airfoil of the actual elevator and aileron instead of an extra tab of metal external of those surfaces? Ultimately I would think that since the trim surface material is so small relative to the rest of the control surface that overcoming a "runaway" trim servo shouldn't be a problem, although the surprise effect it would have when it happened would sure wake you up! Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NOLIES4US(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 19, 1999
Subject: Re: Trim Servos
In a message dated 08/18/1999 9:02:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, billvt(at)together.net writes: << I read an article a while back about an aircraft crash that was attributed to runaway trim. >> The biggest concern I have with trim servo is it breaking or becoming diconnected and allowing thitrim tab to flap and cause a severe flutter. Know of this happening on an Ercoupe Trim cable broke, limit tab was bent and tab speings were broken.(Need to see the system)am thinking of installing on Zodiac, Pilot said the flutter was so bad couldn't see elev. so he put in a full stall and pancaked it in. Bill J. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 1999
From: Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Finger screen replacement
Some questions in regards with leading edge tanks...: Is it possible to inspect/replace the finger screen of a leading edge tank? It is required to have this ability? Is an inspection plate required between the two ribs (station 130 and 170)? Thanks! === Michel Therrien http://www.netaxis.qc.ca/people/m.therrien Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 1999
From: Greg Ferris <ferret(at)forbin.com>
Subject: Re: Finger screen replacement
With the O/B wings removed, the fittings with the finger screen could be removed for inspection. One may also be able to inspect the screen by inserting an inspection mirror into the filler neck, and visually checking it out. It seems highly unlikely that this screen would ever plug with how loose the mesh is. It would be something to check every 500 hours or so though. Greg F. Michel Therrien wrote: > > Some questions in regards with leading edge tanks...: > > Is it possible to inspect/replace the finger screen of > a leading edge tank? It is required to have this > ability? > > Is an inspection plate required between the two ribs > (station 130 and 170)? > > Thanks! > > === > Michel Therrien > http://www.netaxis.qc.ca/people/m.therrien > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "AYRES, JIMMY L" <JAYRES(at)entergy.com>
Subject: gas springs
Date: Aug 19, 1999
Hey Guys, In case anyone is interested, I (after hours of searching) found a supplier of 30# gas springs with a stroke of 15 inches. The supplier is; Orr & Orr, Inc. in Chicago, phone: 773-254-0022. This spring uses a 13 mm ball socket which comes on the spring. The 30# is a little too much force, but I can live with it. The advantage of the 15 inch stroke is that I was able to locate the spring between the two hooks on a standard ZAC latching system and avoid cutting a hole in my forward top skin as per the ZAC (forward tilting canopy) plans. The shorter and more common gas springs did not provide enough stroke to open the canopy high enough. I posted some pictures on my website if anyone wants to see what it looks like. The address is: www.crosswinds.net/little-rock/~jayres/zodiac.html Jimmy Ayres 601HDS (starting on the cowling) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Finger screen replacement
Date: Aug 19, 1999
Michel, >Is an inspection plate required between the two ribs (station 130 and 170)? I put an inspection hole in - just in case. You could probably always work from the root of the wing, but thought an inspection hole between the ribs on the bottom would be better. Also, since I haven't hooked in the fuel line yet, thought it would be easier to attached with the inspection hole. Don ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net>
Subject: Rudder Fairing
Date: Aug 19, 1999
Can anyone tell me how the fairing 6T5-4 worked out? There doesn't seem to be much room between the lower rudder and lower fuselage. Especially when the rudder is deflected. Any suggestions to make it easier to install? Thanks, Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Bellcrank...
Date: Aug 19, 1999
Was just curious as to what everyone did with the aileron bell crank in the center wing section. The plans (6-V-14, #1 & #3) indicate that the pivot hole should be 10mm in section #1 and imply 8mm in section #2. Seems like 10mm would be the best bet, but not sure if this will cause any unknown problems down the road. Thanks, Don ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 1999
From: Fred Hulen <fhulen(at)gabs.net>
Subject: Re: Trim Servos
>The biggest concern I have with trim servo is it breaking or becoming >diconnected and allowing thitrim tab to flap and cause a severe flutter. >Know of this happening on an Ercoupe >Trim cable broke, limit tab was bent and tab speings were broken.(Need to see >the system)am thinking of installing on Zodiac, >Pilot said the flutter was so bad couldn't see elev. so he put in a full >stall and pancaked it in. Bill, Since no one else has commented on this... I have had a lot of experience with various types of servo's. The Mack servo is the RIGHT kind. Rather than operating on a principle of rack/gears that can be stripped and alow the trim tab to slip to an incorrect position, the Mack servos use a very hefty worm gear, and the pounds of load it can take are huge. As I see it, the worst thing is that if the servo differential amplifier failed, it could run to one end of the travel and stop. But as I said before, I think that the tab is so small Vs the elevator or aileron total surface area that you should easily be able to overcome it's effect even if the tab is fully deflected. (my 1 1/2 cents on the subject) Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Steer" <bsteer(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Finger screen replacement
Date: Aug 20, 1999
Where are inspection holes required/used in general? Is it a matter of personal judgement, does the FAA have requirements? Bill Steer 601HD > >Michel, > >>Is an inspection plate required between the two ribs >(station 130 and 170)? > >I put an inspection hole in - just in case. You could probably always work >from the root of the wing, but thought an inspection hole between the ribs >on the bottom would be better. > >Also, since I haven't hooked in the fuel line yet, thought it would be >easier to attached with the inspection hole. > >Don > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 1999
From: "Kilby, Roger" <Roger.Kilby(at)GSC.GTE.Com>
Subject: Trim Servos
The Metroliner I use to fly had a "quick disconnect" switch that broke the electical circuit thus killing the trim servos. It had only electric trim and moved the entire tail so a runaway trim could be and, in one accident in the late 80's, was fatal. We also had an audiable warning that beeped when the trim was in motion so even the non-flying pilot would know immediately when the trim was moving. Having an easy kill via the circuit breaker may be a good idea. Roger Kilby N98RK - 601HDS.....standing on its own gear.....finally ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 1999
From: Darla Golin <darlajean(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Trim Servos
At 1> >My question is, how does the 601 HDS act with the elevator and / or aileron >trims at full deflection? Is it still controllable? I'm sure the Mac servos >are extremely reliable but you never know. > >Thanks, >Bill Morelli - Vermont >601HDS - N812BM >up on it's wheels and tail group installed (looks great) > >Hi Bill, The A/C is easily controllable with the trim tabs at any setting. Some more control force required for sure, but no problem. One thing I have practiced with the 601 is flying it on elevator trim alone. In the unlikely event of an elevator cable failure, with some practice and power on, you can get the aircraft on the ground in one entire piece. Cheers, Mike Slaughter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ronbo135(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 20, 1999
Subject: Re: Finger screen replacement
In a message dated 8/20/99 5:36:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bsteer(at)gwi.net writes: << Where are inspection holes required/used in general? Is it a matter of personal judgement, does the FAA have requirements? >> When a friend and I showed part of our 601s at an EAA meeting, an A&P said everything looked good, but where were the inspection holes? He thought we should have one in the rudder, a couple in the h-stab, and so forth. I haven't studied this further yet, but I am interested in what people have to say. They are obviously not required based on looking at scores of homebuilts at airshows, but perhaps they are a good idea. Any experts out there? Thanks, Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ronbo135(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 20, 1999
Subject: Header tank fit
Someone else had a tight fit recently and I am in the process of fitting the 8-gal header tank. I bought the tank from ZAC and I had installed the horizontal bottom support for the tank e x a c t l y where the plans say, but my fit was too tight to get 1/8" of cork on the bottom and on the top. It was actually snug without any cork in there. I think their tank building process is just not all that precise. Mine is solid, but not symmetrical and is quite lumpy and uneven from most any angle you look at it. My solution was to remake and move the bottom support down 1/4" using the same firewall holes. Then I flattened out some of the monster crimps that ZAC puts on the firewall flange and I added smaller crimps to keep the firewall straight. Then.....(there's more)....I used a belt sander to sand the cork down a bit top and bottom. It all fits now and will be fine, but was a lot of work. Ron Hansen 601HDS scratchbuilding, airframe about 90% done ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Designing for Failure
>Be aware that when you disconnect the battery from a vehicle or aircraft >fitted with a alternator a sudden surge may occur. This can damage the >alternator depending on the type of surge diodes fitted and can also in the >case of motor vehicles damage electronic control units. This rather generalized caveat has been floating around in various forms for decades in transportation industries where vehicles use battery/alternator DC power systems. Many folk have interpreted it to have applicability under all conditions, even when the engine is not running. Others have enlarged the meaning to include the attachment or disconnection of jumper cables between the vehicle's power supply and that of another vehicle or exernal power source. I'd guess that the basis for the statement comes from what we learned about alternator behavior when they first replaced generators on airplanes back in the early 60's. While a generator would willingly start up and provide stable, useful power even when there was no battery on line, the new fangled alternator would not. Depending on design of the alternator/regulator combination, power supplied by an alternator sans battery could be anything from barely satisfactory to wildly hazardous to the health of electro-goodies on the airplane. This lays foundation for the birth of the split rocker, battery master switch that found its way onto most of the single engine airplanes flying today. The idea of the split rocker was to prevent leaving an alternator on line unless the battery was also on line. However, it did allow leaving the alternator OFF until after engine start and for battery-only ground ops. Of course, it also allowed turning off the alternator in flight. This last fact raised a new issue. 60 amp alternators were standard equipment on most Cessnas . . . even the lowly Day/VFR training ships like the C-150. As the battery slid off toward oblivion, it's ability to stabilize an alternator degraded too . . . especially when the machine was a 60-amp, fire-breathing dragon. Some folks experimenting with the alternator switch in flight found that re-energizing the alternator at cruise RPM, low system loads and a soggy battery produced surge transients of wallet vacuuming proportions. Hence the placard you see on many single engine certified ships saying "DO NOT TURN ALTERNATOR OFF IN FLIGHT EXCPET IN AN EMERGENCY". Again, we find the certified side of the house "fixing" a design problem with increased training and pilot workload. It also shifts the blame for subsequent mishaps off onto the pilot when the happless chap fails to observe the placard. In conversations with a number of TC aircraft owners, I've suggested that they superglue the halves of their split rocker switches together if their airplane has a pullable field breaker. This prevents inadvertent operation of only the alternator side of the rocker switch but still allows battery only ground ops and/or disabling the alternator in flight should the situation warrant it. Our recommended wiring diagrams for amateur built aircraft show single operator, two pole switches for the DC power master switch and a pullable breaker for the alternator feeding the alternator field. Alternator and battery come ON and OFF together. Getting back to the original statement, we need to understand also that as long as there is a battery of reasonably good condition on the line (even if it's presently discharged), there is no risk from adding or disconnecing an external battery with or without the alternator on line and/or engine running. The risks associated with external power connection are from inadvertent reversal of polarity and/or connection of 28v ground power to a 14v airplane (unlike connectors on the wall of your house for 120 versus 240 volts, ground power connectors on airplanes are not mechanically different for 14 versus 28v). The last risk associated with ground power shows up on some TC aircraft where the pilot has no control from his seat over the application or removal of ground power from his aircraft's system. All three of these gotchas have been addressed in the recommended wiring we show for ground power jacks as published on our website. Bottom line is that there are valid reasons for people to hand down these little bits of hangar wisdom. However without an understanding of the physics and circumstances behind the statement, it becomes more folklore than fact. Educated pilots are much less likely to have a bad day - in the air or on the ground. Education by sound byte or excerpt can be worse than none at all. The politicians and news anchors prove it every day. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 1999
From: Dan Knezacek <dknezace(at)bconnex.net>
Subject: Re: Trim Servos
I had a runaway elevator trim last fall on my 601 when I was on approach. I think the switch just got stuck. It hasn't happened since. It was possible to overcome it, although I wouldn't want to fly like that for a long period of time. Dan Knezacek > >The Metroliner I use to fly had a "quick disconnect" switch that broke the >electical circuit >thus killing the trim servos. It had only electric trim and moved the entire >tail so a runaway trim >could be and, in one accident in the late 80's, was fatal. We also had an >audiable warning that >beeped when the trim was in motion so even the non-flying pilot would know >immediately when >the trim was moving. >Having an easy kill via the circuit breaker may be a good idea. > >Roger Kilby >N98RK - 601HDS.....standing on its own gear.....finally > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 1999
From: Carlos Sa <wings(at)axess.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co.]
Here's ZAC's suggestion for a 8' long straightedge... Carlos -------- Original Message -------- For a straight edge this long, I would recommend the edge of a sheet (aluminum sheets are usually 8 or 12 feet long). Nick Heintz ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 1999
From: Norris <rnorris4(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder fairing
I made a cardboard version so I could get the bends on the Al one right the first time. Shove the cardboard around with your hands until you have as small a gap as you can stand and about the same gap on both sides during maximum rudder deflection. There needs to be about a 45' bend where the fairing meets the rudder skin. Bill Morelli wrote: > Can anyone tell me how the fairing 6T5-4 worked out? There doesn't seem to > be much room between the lower rudder and lower fuselage. Especially when > the rudder is deflected. Any suggestions to make it easier to install? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 1999
From: Norris <rnorris4(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Finger screen replacement
Michel, Make the hole for the fuel line big enough to pass through the required deep socket for the finger screen and you will be able to remove and replace it very easily. Rob Norris ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 1999
From: Dennis Douglas <ddouglas(at)coastside.net>
Subject: Re: Trim Servos
Bill: I think you might be thinking about the GlaStar that went down in Georgia a few months ago, killing both onboard. Investigators found the plane totally destroyed and they determined that the trim tab was in the full-nose-down position. I am building a GlaStar so I was very interested in this. Stoddard-Hamilton was very concerned also and they took an immediate proactive position on this. They took their demonstrator and another GlaStar as well (as I recall) and did a series of tests to simulate a runaway electrim trim under different power and CG conditions. The results, which were later verified by a whole bunch of guys with flying GlaStars was that the GlaStar remains fully controllable-including level flight--throughout the entire envelope. Although the trim does not appear to be the cause of the crash (at least based on the flight tests), the GlaStar builder community debated the runaway trim problem. I think it was concluded that the best way to prevent the problem was to put a pushbutton switch in series with the trim switch in such a way that the pilot has to press BOTH switches to activate the trim motor. Dennis Douglas GlaStar #5220 Pillar Point Avionics, Inc. http://www.ppavionics.com Bill Morelli wrote: > > I read an article a while back about an aircraft crash that was attributed > to runaway trim. > > I guess in that particular aircraft (do not remember what make) if the trim > servo decided to go full deflection, the aircraft was difficult if not > impossible to control!! > > My question is, how does the 601 HDS act with the elevator and / or aileron > trims at full deflection? Is it still controllable? I'm sure the Mac servos > are extremely reliable but you never know. > > Thanks, > Bill Morelli - Vermont > 601HDS - N812BM > up on it's wheels and tail group installed (looks great) > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 1999
From: Bruce Bockius <elrond(at)xprt.net>
Subject: Help! Cooling problem?
Help! I've started testing my CH601HD taildragger with Stratus engine and think I have a cooling problem... but maybe not. With the tail tied to my pickup truck I can run the engine at full throttle (5050rpm) for no more than 4 minutes before the block temp exceeds 230 degrees. Oil temp climbs to about 200-220 and then seems steady. Is it unreasonable to expect the engine to run at full throttle for five minutes on the ground? Certainly it will get much more air flow across the radiator in flight. I've repeatedly checked for air bubbles, bypassed the thermostat, inspected the water pump, checked all tubing for obstructions, inspected the radiator... as near as I can tell the cooling system is as it should be. Tried swapping temp sensors & gauges in case it was an instrumentation error... it's not. When just taxiing around the block temp is steady at 180F. Outside air temp for these tests has been 85F. I'm using the Zenith firewall forward package, so the hoses and setup I have should be normal... Thanks for any ideas or observations. -Bruce ******************************************** Bruce Bockius Hillsboro, OR, USA elrond(at)xprt.net http://www.xprt.net/~elrond/zodiac/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: asp(at)jet2.net
Date: Aug 21, 1999
Subject: Re: Help! Cooling problem?
Bruce Bockius wrote: > > Help! > > I've started testing my CH601HD taildragger with Stratus engine and > think I have a cooling problem... but maybe not. With the tail tied to > my pickup truck I can run the engine at full throttle (5050rpm) for no > more than 4 minutes before the block temp exceeds 230 degrees. Oil temp > climbs to about 200-220 and then seems steady. Is it unreasonable to > expect the engine to run at full throttle for five minutes on the > ground? Certainly it will get much more air flow across the radiator in > flight. > I have a couple of thoughts, based on personal experience behind my EA81. 1. You may be just fine in flight, but I had no cooling troubles with my engine during 20 minute, full power tied town engine testing. However, my oil pan was sticking out in the breeze and inch or so back then. It is much more enclosed now, but I still have a lot of air blowing around my oil pan, hence no oil temp problems at all..in fact, it's too cool 180 - 190 2. You may still have a "tight" engine that will loosen up 3. Is your rad installed per the Zenith Subaru instructions?...closed in sides and back, with the front dropped down about 4"? Another local Zenair driver insisted on installing his rad per the rotax arrangement, (back end dropped down), and had cooling problems until he turned it around. I hope this helps...It's usually the little things that drive you nuts! James Neely Captain, Essex Zenairforce I - flying great and having a ball ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 1999
From: Rich <rich(at)carol.net>
Subject: CH-801 web site update
For those interested, I've updated my web site. Continue at: http://www.millennium-interactive.com/CH801/page13.htm Thanks Rich 801 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 1999
Subject: Re: Major Milestone
From: "Grant Corriveau" <gfcorriv(at)total.net>
>From: Fred Hulen <fhulen(at)gabs.net> >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Congrats, Fred! Are your top rear skins on? I think the construction manual has a caution about sitting in the cockpit before they are installed - it is possible to overstress the fuselage components I guess... >... now when I sit in the cabin moving the > stick and making engine noises, thing really move too. Grant Corriveau ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 1999
Subject: Re: Bellcrank...
From: "Grant Corriveau" <gfcorriv(at)total.net>
Don, I don't recall noting that difference, myself. Is it possible that there's provision for a small bushing in there - as with the rudder hinges? Grant ---------- > > Was just curious as to what everyone did with the aileron bell crank in the > center wing section. The plans (6-V-14, #1 & #3) indicate that the pivot > hole should be 10mm in section #1 and imply 8mm in section #2. Seems like > 10mm would be the best bet, but not sure if this will cause any unknown > problems down the road. > > Thanks, > Don ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 1999
Subject: Re:Trim Servos/Tab size
From: "Grant Corriveau" <gfcorriv(at)total.net>
I figure that part of an early test flight should be an exploration of the controllability of the aircraft with the trim 'mis-trimmed' to each extreme position. If it's possible for a runaway trim condition to make the aircraft uncontrollable - then I think the trim tab needs to be rendered 'less powerful' by one means or another. And part of our 'emergency procedures' practice drills etc.. should be to know where the circuit breaker for the trim motor is if a runaway occurs - and to be familiar with maneuvering/landing the aircraft with a mistrim configuration. (this kind of drill is usually part of the pre-planned 'emergency' training for aircraft with electric trim systems - usually more complex aircraft than our Zodiacs - but that doesn't make it less of a concern, along with such things as engine failures/fires; electrical problems, etc. etc...) Grant Corriveau > ++++ So where are we now, with the new trim tab system being part of the > airfoil of the actual elevator and aileron instead of an extra tab of metal > external of those surfaces? Ultimately I would think that since the trim > surface material is so small relative to the rest of the control surface > that overcoming a "runaway" trim servo shouldn't be a problem, although the > surprise effect it would have when it happened would sure wake you up! > Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 1999
From: Darla Golin <darlajean(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bellcrank...
> >Don, >I don't recall noting that difference, myself. Is it possible that there's >provision for a small bushing in there - as with the rudder hinges? > >Grant > >---------- >> >> Was just curious as to what everyone did with the aileron bell crank in the >> center wing section. The plans (6-V-14, #1 & #3) indicate that the pivot >> hole should be 10mm in section #1 and imply 8mm in section #2. Seems like >> 10mm would be the best bet, but not sure if this will cause any unknown >> problems down the road. >> >> Thanks, >> Don > >Hi Guys, There is a steel bushing in the bellcrank pivot, Cheers Mike Slaughter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Barlow" <barlow(at)thegrid.net>
Subject: CH-801 web site update
Date: Aug 21, 1999
Rich, Please post the URL of the schematics for the aircraft strobe shown on page 17. Thanks Jeff Thinking real hard about an 801 -----Original Message----- For those interested, I've updated my web site. Continue at: http://www.millennium-interactive.com/CH801/page13.htm Thanks Rich 801 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 1999
From: Norris <rnorris4(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: GSC Props
Listers, I saw this on the Zenith website. I think it will be of interest. http://www.zenithair.com/bldr/tech/gsc-prop.html Rob Norris ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 1999
From: Fred Hulen <fhulen(at)gabs.net>
Subject: Re: Major Milestone
> >>From: Fred Hulen <fhulen(at)gabs.net> >>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > >Congrats, Fred! > >Are your top rear skins on? I think the construction manual has a caution >about sitting in the cockpit before they are installed - it is possible to >overstress the fuselage components I guess... > >>... now when I sit in the cabin moving the >> stick and making engine noises, thing really move too. > >Grant Corriveau +++ You're right Grant, I have only sat in it when it was supported on the building table. I will make sure the longerons on the bottom etc, are in place before getting in... but it sure looks inviting. I installed the steps last night. I had them satin plated, looks cool. Upper skins have been on and are now off for deburing and will stay off until the rest of the antenna wires etc are done. They sure look great off the bench and on the floor. Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 1999
From: Fred Hulen <fhulen(at)gabs.net>
Subject: Something for Nuthin !
Now that I have my fuselage off the bench, I don't have a place for the bench. It IS straight and true, and each of the six legs has an adjustable height foot pad. Made of high density Medite and other top quality parts. FREE to anyone that will come get it this week end. It must be out of the garage when my wife's new car arrives (new to us, a 97). So, if you want a great "something for nothing", give me a call at (816) 373-6883, and if someone else hasn't claimed it, and you can get it out of here right away.... It's Yours ! I'll wait a bit for calls, then I'll start calling some local friends that might want it for a work shop bench. I'd rather it be used to build another Zodiac, so please give me a call. Fred Hulen Lee's Summit, Mo. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Re: Bellcrank...
Date: Aug 21, 1999
Sorry everyone! I wrote, "...indicate that the pivot hole should be 10mm in section #1 and imply 8mm in section #2." What I meant was that the plans indicate that the pivot hole has a 10mm EDGE DISTANCE in section #1 and imply a 8mm EDGE DISTANCE in section #2. Thanks, Don ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 1999
From: Don Woodley <dwoodley(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Help! Cooling problem?
Bruce Have you checked to see if you are collapsing a radiator hose when at full throttle? Don Woodley Independence, Oregon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 1999
From: Fred Hulen <fhulen(at)gabs.net>
Subject: Work Blocks with chocks
> >I know what you mean. This was the point that I really began to feel like I >owned an aircraft and not just a pile of aluminum. Now I go downstairs to >work on THE AIRCRAFT! It's an incentive. >Grant > +++ And How! I hung the steps on it the other night, really makes you want to get in. These were satin nickel plated and really look neat. In order to install them I built a couple of riser/blocks about 10" square with built in chocks on the top so the wheel won't roll off. Lifted one side up and slid one of the blocks under the wheel. (makes you appreciate how light this thing is when you can just lift one side up to do that). Anyway, now I had it up at an angle, which made installing the step on that side easy and getting underneath to do the "joiner" easy too. Swapped sides with the block and the other side was done easily too. I'd recommend a set of these blocks as they sure make working on the bottom side easy. Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 1999
From: Chuck Deiterich <cfd(at)tstar.net>
Subject: Re: Rust protection for steel parts...
Has anybody tried "CorrosionX" for corrosion, their data does not single out only aluminum but says it is also good where dissimilar metals come in contact. You can buy it in gallons or spray cans, they also have locations where they do whole airplanes. I wonder it would be good inside the steel and aluminum tubes? Chuck Dan Knezacek wrote: > > Regarding Linseed oil, > > Morgan Williams, the designer/builder of the North Star kitplane, cut open > a tube that had been treated years earlier with linseed oil. He found that > the oil had hardened and shrunk to the size of a straw, pulling away from > the sides and performing no usefull function whatsoever. > > If your welds are air tight, and there are no holes in the tubes, it will > use up the oxygen very quickly and then cease to rust. > > Dan > 601 HD > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 1999
From: Rich <rich(at)carol.net>
Subject: Re:Trim Servos/Tab size
If trim servo travel extremes are a problem, I believe opening up the servo will allow you to adjust the stops. Adjust it to allow just enough trim for your regular flying habits. If you need to climb or descend a little steeper, just use the stick. When the aircraft is close to trim, it won't require much stick force. If you don't want to do it yourself because of the warranty or skill, perhaps the manufacturer will do it for you. What do you think? Rich ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 1999
From: Rich <rich(at)carol.net>
Subject: Re: CH-801 web site update
URL for aircraft strobe schematics: http://www.rst-engr.com/ then click the 'magazine articles' link Rich Jeff Barlow wrote: > > > Rich, Please post the URL of the schematics for the aircraft strobe shown on > page 17. > > Thanks > Jeff > Thinking real hard about an 801 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SLF998(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 22, 1999
Subject: Rod Acuator
Hi List, I have changed my canopy system to the front tilt XL version and I have a question for anyone else who is using this mod. On page CF-11 of the canopy docs it indicates to place the Rod Acuator assembly behind the seat back channel 6F13-2 but it gives no reference as to measurements on where to place it. Does it just mount flush up against the top or does it get mounted down a little ways. Any help would be appreciated. For anyone that cares....Sorry I haven't been keeping my web site up very well lately. Things have just been a little hectic. I have made a lot of progress on the forward fuselage and I hope to have my log and photo up dates within a couple of days. Steve www.tempe-embroidery.com/zodiac ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "AYRES, JIMMY L" <JAYRES(at)entergy.com>
Subject: Rod Accouter
Date: Aug 23, 1999
Steve, I don't know if this any help but here's what I did: I didn't like the seat back channel mounting so, I made the rod actuator per the plans, but I installed it vertically (mounted to the baggage floor) I pulled a string between the two actuator attachment points on the hooks and positioned the actuator inline with the string. I then had to do some reinforcing on the baggage floor in that area and install a couple of braces diagonally down to the bottom of the actuator. It works great. I have a very poor picture of in on my website under "Canopy". Jimmy Ayres 601HDS (working on cowling) -----Original Message----- From: SLF998(at)aol.com [mailto:SLF998(at)aol.com] Sent: Sunday, August 22, 1999 5:13 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Rod Acuator Hi List, I have changed my canopy system to the front tilt XL version and I have a question for anyone else who is using this mod. On page CF-11 of the canopy docs it indicates to place the Rod Acuator assembly behind the seat back channel 6F13-2 but it gives no reference as to measurements on where to place it. Does it just mount flush up against the top or does it get mounted down a little ways. Any help would be appreciated. For anyone that cares....Sorry I haven't been keeping my web site up very well lately. Things have just been a little hectic. I have made a lot of progress on the forward fuselage and I hope to have my log and photo up dates within a couple of days. Steve www.tempe-embroidery.com/zodiac ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Pinneo <George.Pinneo(at)trw.com>
Subject: Rust protection for steel parts...
Date: Aug 23, 1999
I've used Corrosion-X for about a year now: works well, expecially on Rotax steel hardware. GGP - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 1999
Subject: Canopy
From: "Grant Corriveau" <gfcorriv(at)total.net>
Well, after 4 1/2 years I was wondering how easily the 'sticky paper' would come off of my canopy. I'm glad to say that it was no problem. I wonder if the fact that it was stored in a cool, dry basement might have helped. (I.e. no chance for the glue on the tape to get gooey...) Now I'm working out the details of how to go about this... I'll go back and check the archives for all your previous comments about cutting the dimensions. I tried to find a drill 'abrasive cutter' wheel today, but couldn't find anything that seems right. The hardware store 'guy' lent me his sabre saw and sold me an abrasive saw blade - supposed to work for fibreglass and ceramics etc. I cut a small chunk on the corner and it seems to work okay, but I don't like the vibrations caused by the back-and-forth motion. Maybe I'll look again for that cutting wheel. Grant Corriveau Montreal pre-cover inspection done - why does it still seem like 80% to go? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 1999
Subject: AVWeb flash... fwiw
From: "Grant Corriveau" <gfcorriv(at)total.net>
I just found this on the AVWeb site newsletter: EAA GETS FAA CLARIFICATION ON HOMEBUILT OVERFLIGHTS OF POPULATED AREAS EAA finally got a clarification from the FAA regarding limitations for homebuilt aircraft that fly over populated areas. The FAA said that amateur-built aircraft that received an airworthiness certificate before May 28, 1998, and have authorization to take off and land over densely populated areas continue to have authorization to fly over those areas for "en route operations." Amateur-built aircraft receiving airworthiness certificates after May 28, 1998, may fly over populated areas if the aircraft has no hazardous operating characteristics or design features, and the aircraft is controllable throughout its normal range of speeds. (I certainly hope so.... grant corriveau ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 1999
From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy
DON'T USE A SABER SAW. Quickest way I know to crack a canopy. Abrasive wheel in a dremal tool is better. Get the fiber reinforced model. Polish all cut edges until smooth with 320 or 400 wet or dry so there are no scratches to form into cracks. Go to a place that fabricates plastic like cadilac or Cope plastics for help and tooling. They have shopr all over the country. > >Well, after 4 1/2 years I was wondering how easily the 'sticky paper' would >come off of my canopy. I'm glad to say that it was no problem. I wonder if >the fact that it was stored in a cool, dry basement might have helped. (I.e. >no chance for the glue on the tape to get gooey...) > > >Now I'm working out the details of how to go about this... > >I'll go back and check the archives for all your previous comments about >cutting the dimensions. I tried to find a drill 'abrasive cutter' wheel >today, but couldn't find anything that seems right. > >The hardware store 'guy' lent me his sabre saw and sold me an abrasive saw >blade - supposed to work for fibreglass and ceramics etc. I cut a small >chunk on the corner and it seems to work okay, but I don't like the >vibrations caused by the back-and-forth motion. > >Maybe I'll look again for that cutting wheel. > >Grant Corriveau >Montreal >pre-cover inspection done - why does it still seem like 80% to go? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1999
From: Dan Knezacek <dknezace(at)bconnex.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy
Hi Grant, I wouldn't use anything with a back and forth motion, it scares me! I used a grinder with a regular grinding wheel on it (10,000 rpm). It worked fine, although a cutting wheel would be faster (1/8" cut rather than 1/4"). I made several cuts taking off a small amount each time. There was never any problem with cracking. Dan Knezacek > >Well, after 4 1/2 years I was wondering how easily the 'sticky paper' would >come off of my canopy. I'm glad to say that it was no problem. I wonder if >the fact that it was stored in a cool, dry basement might have helped. (I.e. >no chance for the glue on the tape to get gooey...) > > >Now I'm working out the details of how to go about this... > >I'll go back and check the archives for all your previous comments about >cutting the dimensions. I tried to find a drill 'abrasive cutter' wheel >today, but couldn't find anything that seems right. > >The hardware store 'guy' lent me his sabre saw and sold me an abrasive saw >blade - supposed to work for fibreglass and ceramics etc. I cut a small >chunk on the corner and it seems to work okay, but I don't like the >vibrations caused by the back-and-forth motion. > >Maybe I'll look again for that cutting wheel. > >Grant Corriveau >Montreal >pre-cover inspection done - why does it still seem like 80% to go? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: Canopy
Dan Knezacek wrote: > I wouldn't use anything with a back and forth motion, it scares me! It's the best way to melt plexiglass and to brake the saw blade, nothing scary, just fun, see (ok, depends on your sense of humor). > I used a grinder with a regular grinding wheel on it (10,000 rpm). Try the Makita #3704 trimmer, you will not want to hear about anything else after... I use the same bit as for trimming plywood on fuselage longerons once glued. They call the bit : Ball bearing flush trimming bit. The bit has 2 blades, a diameter of 10mm (25/64") and revs at 30,000rpm. If you trim plywood on a longeron, the longeron is used as the guide, and the result is amazing. For cutting a plastic sheet, you need of course a well clamped guide (straight, or any curve) in contact with the ball bearing, under the sheet. It does a perfect cut, and it's the best method I found in 40 years. Here in Europe we pay $ 160 for the trimmer and 40 for the bit. Claude (you think I hold some Makita shares, but you're wrong...) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Polstra, Phil" <PPOLSTRA(at)exchange.webmd.net>
Subject: Hotel for Open Hangar Day
Date: Aug 24, 1999
I'm staying at the Holiday Inn Express in Mexico, Mo Saturday night. Is this where others are staying as well? If not, could those of us who are interested get together there after Zenith kicks us out? Philip A. Polstra Director, Information Systems WebMD ppolstra(at)webmd.net (404)479-7713 name="Philip Polstra (E-mail).vcf" filename="Philip Polstra (E-mail).vcf" HILIP%7E1.VCF BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Polstra;Philip FN:Philip Polstra ORG:WebMD TITLE:Director of Information Services TEL;WORK;VOICE:(404) 479-7713 TEL;WORK;FAX:(404) 479-7824 tates of America =0AUnited States of America EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:ppolstra(at)webmd.net REV:19990813T111444Z END:VCARD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: asp(at)jet2.net
Date: Aug 24, 1999
Subject: Re: Canopy
I used the 1/32 X3" cutoff wheel available at any home hardware or home depot, or the like on my air drill...wonderful!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1999
From: Darla Golin <darlajean(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Mexico Fly In
Hi Guys, I just made a reservation at the Best Western in Mexico (573-581-1440). They know about our fly in, and are giving us a 10% discount. Rate is $37.10 for a King size bed (and a room, I hope). They also extended the cancellation time from 4pm to 6pm, in consideration of those of us flying in. I checked at the Amerihost, and they wanted $62 a night. Ouch. Mike Fothergill and Dave Austin are also at the Best Western. I'm leaving Ft Lauderdale early thursday, and would like to make the flight in one day, although the weather might not co-operate. Mike F. is also trying for the same timetable from Toronto. Cheers, Mike Slaughter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1999
From: Chris Boultinghouse <zodiacbuilder(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Mexico Fly-in (builders please read)
Hey folks, If you are a builder, be sure to see Linda when you arrive at Zenith. She will issue you a name tag and a white Zenith hat, so all the builders can recognize the other builders! If I catch any of you guys (or gals) without your hat on, yer in trouble. : ) -Chris Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kjl33u(at)ezy.net
Date: Aug 24, 1999
Subject: Open Cockpit
Flying my 601 HDS in 90 degree plus weather, made a decision to construct a spotster version. Today I made a windshield out of 1/4 tinted Plexiglas using 1/2" steel conduit frame. It fits very nice on the front cowl and can be removed in seconds. I am planning to use 1/8 marine plywood to cover the baggage compartment opening. My question is how does it fly in that configuration, has anybody out there flown the 601HDS with just a windshield. I saw one picture on the web flying with just the windshield but don't know who he is, anyone know? Installed my wheel and gear leg failings and on sunday morning with the temp at 59 degrees and at sea level saw 1500 ft/min at 110 mpg IAS. Was complaining to a friend of mine who works for NASA that in order to fly hands at cruise RPM I had to use full down elevator trim. Two days later several NASA engineers showed up at my hanger with scales and other hi tech measuring equipment. After 4 hours going over my plane, here is what they found. 1. Was at the extreme end of my aft CG under the worst possible conditions( two 190 lb. people, low fuel and no baggage ) They suggested I move my battery from behind the pax seat to the firewall which I did. 2. I gained nearly 40 lb. after painting my bird using 1 gal of epoxy primer, 2 gal of base coat, 3/4 gal of stripping, and adding speed failings. She now weighs 713 lb.. 3. They measured my wings,rudder and elevator for alignment all were OK, but they discovered that my wings and elevator had 0 degrees angle of incident. They said this was not necessarily bad as almost all fighter planes have 0 deg., but would make it a bit unstable at low speeds. They suggested I raise the elevator 2 1/2 degrees up angle, this I have not done yet. Changing the CG sure made the plane easy to land at slow speeds, I now use 70 mph over the numbers. Ken Lennox N99KL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1999
From: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Open Cockpit
Ken; How did you get to 0 deg incidence on the wing? Mike kjl33u(at)ezy.net wrote: > > Flying my 601 HDS in 90 degree plus weather, made a decision to > construct a spotster version. Today I made a windshield out of 1/4 > tinted Plexiglas using 1/2" steel conduit frame. It fits very nice > on the front cowl and can be removed in seconds. I am planning to > use 1/8 marine plywood to cover the baggage compartment opening. > My question is how does it fly in that configuration, has anybody > out there flown the 601HDS with just a windshield. > I saw one picture on the web flying with just the windshield but > don't know who he is, anyone know? > Installed my wheel and gear leg failings and on sunday morning > with the temp at 59 degrees and at sea level saw 1500 ft/min at > 110 mpg IAS. > > Was complaining to a friend of mine who works for NASA that in > order to fly hands at cruise RPM I had to use full down elevator > trim. > Two days later several NASA engineers showed up at my hanger with > scales and other hi tech measuring equipment. After 4 hours going > over my plane, here is what they found. > 1. Was at the extreme end of my aft CG under the worst possible > conditions( two 190 lb. people, low fuel and no baggage ) > They suggested I move my battery from behind the pax seat to the > firewall which I did. > 2. I gained nearly 40 lb. after painting my bird using 1 gal of > epoxy primer, 2 gal of base coat, 3/4 gal of stripping, and adding > speed failings. She now weighs 713 lb.. > 3. They measured my wings,rudder and elevator for alignment all > were OK, > but they discovered that my wings and elevator had 0 degrees > angle of incident. They said this was not necessarily bad as > almost all fighter planes have 0 deg., but would make it a bit > unstable at low speeds. > They suggested I raise the elevator 2 1/2 degrees up angle, this I > have not done yet. > Changing the CG sure made the plane easy to land at slow speeds, I > now use 70 mph over the numbers. > > Ken Lennox N99KL > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darryl West" <rdwest(at)cadvision.com>
Subject: Re: GPS rollover
Date: Aug 24, 1999
My GPS 90 took 30 minutes to acquire the satellites on Aug22 instead of the usual 30 seconds. There is a software patch available on Garmin's website : http://www.garmin.com/ Darryl > >Gang, > >Okay, we hashed it out for two weeks: did anyones GPS go haywire on Sunday? >Just curious. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1999
From: Darla Golin <darlajean(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: GPS rollover
I tried my Garmin 55AVD today, and had no joy locking on. Tomorrow I'll try a Master Reset. Cheers, Mike slaughter > >Gang, > >Okay, we hashed it out for two weeks: did anyones GPS go haywire on Sunday? >Just curious. > >Jeff > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: flyboy401(at)intranet.ca
Date: Aug 25, 1999
Subject: Re: GPS rollover
My Garmin 38 is dead as a door nail. Looks like I will have to buy the cable and do the software upgrade. Anyone with version 3,04 or earlier should suffer same problem. Version 3.05 and later should be OK Dan Bedard CH 600 Mosler 2164cc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Tannock" <James.Tannock(at)nottingham.ac.uk>
Date: Aug 25, 1999
Subject: Re: GPS rollover
Mike wrote: > I tried my Garmin 55AVD today, and had no joy locking on. Tomorrow I'll > try a Master Reset. I found the same with my Garmin 55 until I did the Master Reset (hold down CLR while powering up). The unit took about 20 minutes on Sunday morning to go through all possible satellites and fix its position, and I left it on for a while longer to download some of the additional info ('ephemera'?) the satellites send out from time to time. Of course since then I have been spending ages keying in waypoints. A good thing it worked. I had my IP finished with the GPS mounting clamp in a prominent position! James Tannock Nottingham England 601HD Fitting out firewall and IP. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Tannock" <James.Tannock(at)nottingham.ac.uk>
Date: Aug 25, 1999
Subject: Re: Open Cockpit
Ken wrote > but they discovered that my wings and elevator had 0 degrees > angle of incident. They said this was not necessarily bad as > almost all fighter planes have 0 deg., but would make it a bit > unstable at low speeds. > They suggested I raise the elevator 2 1/2 degrees up angle, this I > have not done yet. Ken, I presume you mean that the wing and the horizontal tail were both at 0 degrees angle of incidence (i.e. parallel) to the datum which is the fuselage top longeron. The HT is meant to be parallel, but the wing is meant to have a 3 degree positive angle of incidence (i.e up at the front). ( I imagine it would be quite possible to build an aircraft with 0 degrees wing incidence, judging by the way I struggled to get those angles correct!) The key point is that the HT must not stall before the wing, otherwise you might be unable to recover, So the angle of attack of the HT must be less than the wing. Increasing the HT angle of incidence will (i.e lifting it at the front) could be a problem. In my view it should go up at the back to improve stability (i.e. perhaps a slight HT negative angle of incidence with a wing at 0 degrees ). In any case I suggest you talk to Chris Heintz before doing anything. James Tannock Nottingham England 601HD Fitting out firewall and IP. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: asp(at)jet2.net
Date: Aug 25, 1999
Subject: Re: Open Cockpit
James Tannock wrote: > > Ken wrote > > but they discovered that my wings and elevator had 0 degrees > > angle of incident. They said this was not necessarily bad as > > almost all fighter planes have 0 deg., but would make it a bit > > unstable at low speeds. > > They suggested I raise the elevator 2 1/2 degrees up angle, this I > > have not done yet. > > It's nice to know that I'm not the only one!! It's easy to do if you follow the instruction that says to "place the centre section flat on the worktable" I forget whether it's on the online instructions or the plans, anyway that's what I did and came up w/ 0deg incedence too. I wrote Chris and he said not to worry about it, and I could change the incedence of the stab if I wanted, but could also just use trim as a MUCH simpler cure. I've never had any problems in deep stalls -just mushes along at 50mph and 900fpm sink ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SLF998(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 25, 1999
Subject: Re: Open Cockpit
Thank you for that excellent information. Can I borrow your engineers! Steve PS Same questions on the Sportster Canopy! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SLF998(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 25, 1999
Subject: Re: GPS rollover
My Bendix King KLX 100 took almost 20 minutes to aquire sat. but once she did there was no problem at all. MY Garmin PIlot III performes like nothing had happened. Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SLF998(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 25, 1999
Subject: Re: Mexico Fly-in (builders please read)
In a message dated 8/24/99 2:40:07 PM US Mountain Standard Time, zodiacbuilder(at)yahoo.com writes: << white Zenith hat >> Hey my company made those hats!!!! I wish I could be there, sound like it is going to be a great event. If anyone on the list would like their hats personalized with tail numbers or anything like drop me an e-mail and I'll be more than happy to do that for you. Of course I might have to bum a ride off you in your plane some day! Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net>
Subject: Open Cockpit
Date: Aug 25, 1999
I had a bad experience with Plexiglas when building my landing light lens. After it was formed, it developed some slight hazing (fine cracks). As I was mounting it, the lens exploded into many pieces!! I then went with Lexan (much stronger than Plexiglas and more expensive). This lens I can bent, torqued, hammered or whatever without any sign of cracking! If I personally where to make a sportster windshield, I would go with the Lexan. I don't think the Plexiglas would stand up very well at all to a bird strike or maybe even to the 100+ mph winds it will encounter. Juts my opinion. Regards, Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 1999
From: Greg Ferris <ferret(at)forbin.com>
Subject: Re: Mexico Fly In
> Russell Johnson/ 601-HDS/ > Stilllllllllll working on the center wing section. Maybe I will get fired > up after the open hanger day. I'm also stillllll working on the center wing section. Everyone said how slow progress was on it, so I was prepared for the worst. Although I've been working on it for quite a while now, it's taking shape. I'm about to install the seat. I've been looking forward to sitting in this thing for a long time...soon I will be appeased. Open Hangar Day comes at a good time because I wonder how anyone can make sense out of the dimension given to locate the back of the seat. The leader lines of the dimension given do not appear to be related to anything in particular. Can anyone share how critical the location of the seat back is? I would rather recline it a little, but don't want to cause problems down the road. Greg F. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 1999
From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Open Cockpit
> >I had a bad experience with Plexiglas when building my landing light lens. >After it was formed, it developed some slight hazing (fine cracks). As I was >mounting it, the lens exploded into many pieces!! > >I then went with Lexan (much stronger than Plexiglas and more expensive). >This lens I can bent, torqued, hammered or whatever without any sign of >cracking! > >If I personally where to make a sportster windshield, I would go with the >Lexan. I don't think the Plexiglas would stand up very well at all to a bird >strike or maybe even to the 100+ mph winds it will encounter. > >Juts my opinion. > >Regards, >Bill Unfortunately, Lexan with all its strength has a weakness... Gasoline. Just a slash will ruin the Lexan. That is why most all aircraft windows are plexiglas. Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh EAA volunteer for 28 continous years Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh EAA volunteer for 28 continous years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 1999
From: Rich <rich(at)carol.net>
Subject: Re: Open Cockpit
It must be nice to have your own personal NASA engineers checking over your plane. ;-) Rich ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 1999
From: "Dennis G. Douglas" <ddouglas(at)coastside.net>
Subject: Zenith Fuel Transfers
Hey Zenith Builders! I wanted to let you know about a fuel pump controller that can really simplify the fuel management issues for your plane. It also prevents your fuel transfer pump from running "dry", which will accelerate the wear of the diaphram. If you have a web browser, point it to: http://www.ppavionics.com and have a look. If you don't have a web browser, call me at 650-740-1516 or email me at ddouglas(at)ppavionics.com and I'll send out a brochure.... From the pilot's side, the PPav "Smart Switch" looks like any high-end pushbutton switch for turning your fuel pumps on and off. Behind the panel, however, is a microcontroller with a couple of solid state switches for handling the pump current loads. The pilot starts the transfer by pressing the button and then forgets it. The controller will pump until the aux tank is empty, then turn itself off automatically! There's also a timed mode where the pilot presses the start button for at least one second. The pump pumps for 5 (or 3) minutes, then turns off. The pilot can also stop any ongoing transfer by merely pressing the pushbutton switch. No additional wiring is necessary! We are shipping these now at a special introductory price of $129.95. Dennis Douglas Pillar Point Avionics, Inc. ddouglas(at)ppavionics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cliffsuss(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 25, 1999
Subject: Re: Open Cockpit
Bill, Did you heat form or cold form the plexiglas? If you cold formed,that could account for the cracks. That's the nice thing about Lexan, it readily cold forms with a minimal spring back. Cliff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 1999
From: Bill Morelli <billvt(at)together.net>
Subject: Re: Open Cockpit
>Did you heat form or cold form the plexiglas? If you cold formed,that could >account for the cracks. I heat formed both the plexi and the Lexan. If I recall I used 300 deg F and let them melt over my form. Regards, Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 1999
From: Bill Morelli <billvt(at)together.net>
Subject: Re: Mexico Fly In
>Can anyone share how critical the location of the seat back is? I would rather >recline it a little, but don't want to cause problems down the road. > Greg, I am at work and do not have the drawings here but if I recall correctly, there is a 535mm dimension for the seat back. I think it was from the main spar to the back. Best check to be sure. Also, If you take the two arm rest sides that are cut to shape and lay them inplace, you can get a feel for the seat back angle as it needs to match the arm rest sides. If you still are having trouble, let me know and I can dig up the information tomorrow. Regards, Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: asp(at)jet2.net
Date: Aug 25, 1999
Subject: Re: Mexico Fly In
Bill Morelli wrote: > > >Can anyone share how critical the location of the seat back is? I would > rather > >recline it a little, but don't want to cause problems down the road. > > I angled mine back an extra inch and I'm very pleased w/ the result. You have to be a little careful how much you change it, because it throws other measurements out. If you are building from plans that's ok, because you can cut your pieces a little longer, but with a kit I'd check it carefully first ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Day" <robday(at)gte.net>
Subject: How tall can you be?
Date: Aug 25, 1999
Hello Listers- How tall is our tallest 601 pilot? I'm only 6'0", but my CFI is 6'7". Would he fit? Also, is there a tendency to bump your headset on the canopy? Thanks everybody, Rob Day ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 1999
From: Fred Hulen <fhulen(at)gabs.net>
Subject: Re: How tall can you be?
> >Hello Listers- >How tall is our tallest 601 pilot? I'm only 6'0", but my CFI is 6'7". Would >he fit? Also, is there a tendency to bump your headset on the canopy? >Thanks everybody, >Rob Day ++++ You might want to refine the information a bit farther, to be the dimension from the seat bottom you sit on to the top of your head. My friend Bob Wiley (who is building his 601 HDS) is 6' 4" tall and I'm 6' 1" tall. However, we are both almost identical from the seat bottom to top of our heads (36 1/4"), (measured sitting absolutely upright). He has all his extra height in his legs. If you are a tall guy that happens to have the opposite situation, that being that you are long from the seat to top of head, you'll be having a problem that Bob and I won't. By the way, Bob and I both have headset clearance in the demo planes we have tried on for size. Fred > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tony Gunn" <ragunn(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: GPS and HOT Batteries
Date: Aug 26, 1999
Hey Guys: I checked out my Apollo 920 last night, and other than taking about 20 minutes to lock on everything seemed fine. As the battery indicator said my new batteries were "low" at power up I removed all six AA batteries, only to find that one of them was so hot I could barely hold it. Has anyone ever seen this before. Tony Gunn, Houston HDS kit 2/3 done (and holding while I finish workshop to finish plane) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 1999
From: Dan Knezacek <dknezace(at)bconnex.net>
Subject: Re: How tall can you be?
Hi Rob, I'm 6'2" and have no problem. I did, however, raise up my canopy to the max - 4". I also have temperfoam seats (which protect your spine in a crash) and also raise you up another 3". I also use a helmet and only bump my head in severe turbulence. Dan > >Hello Listers- >How tall is our tallest 601 pilot? I'm only 6'0", but my CFI is 6'7". Would >he fit? Also, is there a tendency to bump your headset on the canopy? >Thanks everybody, >Rob Day > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 1999
Subject: Re: GPS and HOT Batteries
From: jackie b johnson <zoejohnson(at)juno.com>
Having one in backward would sure do the trick..also, would drag your voltage down.. > >Hey Guys: > >I checked out my Apollo 920 last night, and other than taking about 20 > >minutes to lock on everything seemed fine. > >As the battery indicator said my new batteries were "low" at power up >I >removed all six AA batteries, only to find that one of them was so hot >I >could barely hold it. > >Has anyone ever seen this before. > >Tony Gunn, Houston >HDS kit 2/3 done (and holding while I finish workshop to finish >plane) > > > --- >Aircraft > --- > Zenith-List: >http://www.matronics.com/zenith-list > --- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Steer <bsteer(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Wing riblets
Date: Aug 27, 1999
The riblets, part 6-V-7-5, I received in my wing kit from ZAC are absolutely symmetrical - no top or bottom, left or right. But the drawing on 6-V-7 sure doesn't look that way. Has anybody else seen this in the factory supplied riblets? Thanks. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Davidson" <jdavidso(at)doubled.com>
Subject: Re: Wing riblets
Date: Aug 27, 1999
Bill Steer wrote: The riblets, part 6-V-7-5, I received in my wing kit from ZAC are absolutely symmetrical - no top or bottom, left or right. But the drawing on 6-V-7 sure doesn't look that way. Has anybody else seen this in the factory supplied riblets? I went downstairs and checked mine. And yes mine are symmetrical too. I'm building my HD wings from an older (1994) kit. I did put them in place and the riblet fits well into the O/B Wing Rear Extension 6V7-4 which has the same angle on both flanges. I have the wing extension clecoed on and it lines up well. I matched the riblet next to the outboard end of the aileron and it seems to fit there too. I've only done 1 O/B wing so far, but the other mystery is why 4 riblets are required. I only see 1 on each O/B wing section so far as shown on 6V10. The plans also seem to show on 6V7 that the longer flange on 6V7-4 is cut away at the riblet end. On mine, the flange extends the entire length of the extension and it fits. Jeff Davidson CH601-HD tail 85%, skinning 1st O/B wing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1999
From: Greg Ferris <ferret(at)forbin.com>
Subject: Re: Wing riblets
Jeff Davidson wrote: > I've only done 1 O/B wing so far, but the > other mystery is why 4 riblets are required. I only see 1 on each O/B wing > section so far as shown on 6V10. I ran into this as well. One doesn't like to have "extra" parts :) , but I also got 4 riblets, and only needed 2. I'm thinking they may be used on the center wing, and it was just an oversight that they were included with the O/B wing kit. Greg F. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Facet Fuel Pumps
Date: Aug 27, 1999
This is probably a really basic question. When the Facet Fuel Pumps are not on, do they block fuel from moving past the pump? Thanks, Don ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1999
From: Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pumps
I have a friend that uses two pumps in series (not in parallel). So I would answer 'no' to that question. --- Don Honabach wrote: > > > This is probably a really basic question. When the > Facet Fuel Pumps are > not on, do they block fuel from moving past the > pump? > > Thanks, > Don === Michel Therrien http://www.netaxis.qc.ca/people/m.therrien Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1999
From: "Dennis G. Douglas" <ddouglas(at)coastside.net>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pumps
Don (And other Zenith Builders): The Facet pump has a check valve in it that prevents fuel from flowing "backwards" (i.e., from the header (or main) to the auxiliary tank(s)) when the pump is "OFF". The diaphram in the pump is spring loaded so that it stops such that it blocks fuel flow from flowing "forward" (i.e., from the aux to the main.) Thus, unless the pump is pumping, it provides a positive shut-off in both directions. The PPAv controller provides a means to both control and monitor the status of the fuel pump(s). We can meet the fuel management needs of the Zenith community! See us on the web at http://www.ppavionics.com Dennis Douglas Pillar Point Avionics, Inc. ddouglas(at)ppavionics.com (ph) 650-740-1516 (fax) 650-726-9567 Don Honabach wrote: > > > This is probably a really basic question. When the Facet Fuel Pumps are > not on, do they block fuel from moving past the pump? > > Thanks, > Don ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1999
From: billn(at)ppiteam.com (PPITEAM)
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pumps
FWIW When I spoke with the people who make the Facet pumps, they said that there needed to be a check valve in the line to keep fuel from passing back through the pump. They told me that the pump did not supply a positive check, so I installed a check valve in my fuel line based on their information. Zodiac 601HDS S/N 3556 Bill Nichelson Bellefontaine, Oh bn2(at)bright.net or billn(at)ppiteam.com 3300 Jabiru engine installed, wiring panel. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1999
From: Bruce Bockius <elrond(at)xprt.net>
Subject: First Flight
Today I performed the first flight of my CH601HD taildragger with Stratus engine. Everything seemed to go well - the plane and I are still in one piece! Over the last three years of building I've found other's first flight announcements very motivating, so I thought I'd let everyone still building know that there is one more Zodiac in the air! The flight went great, engine temps stayed normal (thanks James N., Don W. and Frank H. for your suggestions), although I never had the engine above 4500rpm (basically I think you could fly the thing around the pattern at about 3000rpm if you were so motivated!). Next flight I'll try full throttle! If you're curious you can read more about it in my builders log http://www.xprt.net/~elrond/zodiac/build.htm Also, if you're not sure if you can test fly the plane yourself you should know that I only have 120 hours total time, have never flown in a Zodiac or any other low-wing plane before, and have only 1.2 hours flight time in the last nine months (a BFR in May). That should prove that the plane handles easily! -Bruce ****************************************** Bruce Bockius elrond(at)xprt.net http://www.xprt.net/~elrond Hillsboro, OR, USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Pinneo <George.Pinneo(at)trw.com>
Subject: First Flight
Date: Aug 27, 1999
Congratulations! Enjoy! GGP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1999
From: "Dennis G. Douglas" <ddouglas(at)coastside.net>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pumps
Frank, Bill, Don (and other Zenith builders): My reply to Don's inquiry was focussed on the fuel check capability of the Facet pumps against normal gravity-type heads. If my math is correct, 3.5 psi corresponds to a head of almost 7 feet, which would be a _pumped_ head pressure for most airplane fuel systems, not a gravity head because our planes aren't that large. My experience using a 40105-type pump is that it resists backflows pretty well against heads of a foot or less. It also resists forward flows pretty well when the pump is off. Maybe not perfect, but pretty well. The GlaStar can sit for long periods with full aux and mains without losing fuel through the vents because of aux-to-main draining.... What maximum volume rate of leakage of backflow or pump-off forward flow are you willing to tolerate? Regarding Bills' comment about the "need" for a check valve, if you point your browser to http://www.facet-purolator.com/electri.htm , you will see a cutaway of the Facet pump. The drawing shows that there is a "foot valve" at the inlet end and a "plunger valve) at the outlet end. For all practical purposes these serve as "check valves" against the low gravity heads normally encountered. If you are going to operate the outlet of one pump against the inlet of another pump, you very well may need an additional check valve. Don't forget the PPAv controller to manage your transfers! Dennis Douglas http://www.ppavionics.com Frank_Hinde(at)ex.cv.hp.com wrote: > > Not True I'm afraid Dennis! > > The pump MAY stop the fuel backflowing under just the head from the header tank > to aux tanks, but it will certainly not prevent backflow under 3.5 psi... or > when like me you have no header tank and want to be sure your not pumping fuel > into the other wing tank. > > Both of my pumps had a considerable backflow... I even changed one out and it > did the same. > > I wish they did... it cost me $50 for two high quality check valves...:-) > > Frank > -----Original Message----- > > > Don (And other Zenith Builders): > > The Facet pump has a check valve in it that prevents fuel from flowing > "backwards" (i.e., from the header (or main) to the auxiliary tank(s)) > when the pump is "OFF". The diaphram in the pump is spring loaded so > that it stops such that it blocks fuel flow from flowing "forward" > (i.e., from the aux to the main.) Thus, unless the pump is pumping, it > provides a positive shut-off in both directions. > > The PPAv controller provides a means to both control and monitor the > status of the fuel pump(s). We can meet the fuel management needs of > the Zenith community! See us on the web at http://www.ppavionics.com > > Dennis Douglas > Pillar Point Avionics, Inc. > ddouglas(at)ppavionics.com > (ph) 650-740-1516 > (fax) 650-726-9567 > > Don Honabach wrote: > > > > > > This is probably a really basic question. When the Facet Fuel Pumps are > > not on, do they block fuel from moving past the pump? > > > > Thanks, > > Don ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "barry mayne" <bazmay(at)ozemail.com.au>
Subject: riblets
Date: Aug 28, 1999
Hi Jeff and Greg, The riblets you think you have 2 extra of are used on the wing root fairing from centre wing to fuselage. Believe me you don't get much extra in the kit. Barry Mayne HDS in the land of OZ. last piece of sheet metal fitted last night, now the wait to afford an engine. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jtlazear" <jtlazear1(at)excite.com>
Subject: 701 Engine option
Date: Aug 27, 1999
I'am ready to purchase the engine for my 701,I have decided on the Rotax 912 but I can't come to decision between the 912 or the 912S. I would appreciate any opinions,pros and cons etc. Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pumps
Don Honabach wrote: > This is probably a really basic question. When the Facet Fuel Pumps are > not on, do they block fuel from moving past the pump? > On my 701 I mounted the Facet pump in serie between the front tank and the 912 mechanical pump. I use it only as a booster at start. I'm obliged to switch it ON before starting after the engine has been switched off for few minutes to get rid of the vapor lock under the hot cowl here in summer. So NO, the Facet pump does not block the fuel forwards when it is OFF. On planes where it is mounted it in parallel with the mechanical pump, the guys have installed a check valve in serie with the Fact AND ANOTHER ONE in serie with the mechanical pump. Seems too complicated (my opinion). Valid for ultralights only, because the DGAC (french FAA) does not approve the Facet on GA homebuilts. Claude ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 1999
From: Fred Hulen <fhulen(at)gabs.net>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pumps
>Valid for ultralights only, because the DGAC (french FAA) does not approve >the Facet on GA homebuilts. > >Claude +++ Claude, Do you know why they don't approve of them, and what kind DO they approve and why? Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: 701 Engine option
Jtlazear wrote: > > I'am ready to purchase the engine for my 701,I have decided on the Rotax 912 > but I can't come to decision between the 912 or the 912S. > The 701 was designed to fly with 65 hp. The 912 was an option for those -like me- who don't like the 2-strokes. With the 912, the takeoff distance is longer, you only have a better climb rate. Cruise speed is the same as with a 582 engine +- 5mph. Don't forget the 701 is a drag, not a racer : with a 912, the MCR01 (2-seater, non rectractable tri-gear) cruises at 192 mph. And if I'm not wrong, the cost of a mile is proportional for a given plane to the speed squared.... With a 912S, you won't have much more cruise speed, a slightly better climb speed, and you would pay more for the engine and the fuel. BTW, I don't like too much getting 100 hp out of a 1200cc engine... I hesitated between a 912 and a 914 (I wanted to see the french Alps under my a** ) but I choosed a 912 and I'm very happy with it. Any opposite opinion welcome too. Claude 701-912 F-JCUO #7-8036. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 1999
Subject: Re: Mexico Fly In
From: "Grant Corriveau" <gfcorriv(at)total.net>
While installing the 'longer cockpit' mod I inadvertantly canted the seat back all the way to the floor instead of making the change in the angles at the top of the 'seat pan'. The only hassle later was that the clearance for the control cables under this seat back needs to be addressed - with a fair lead or a slight 'adjustment'... Grant Corriveau Montreal ---------- >From: Greg Ferris <ferret(at)forbin.com> ... > > Can anyone share how critical the location of the seat back is? I would rather > recline it a little, but don't want to cause problems down the road. > > Greg F. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 1999
Subject: Re: Open Cockpit
From: "Grant Corriveau" <gfcorriv(at)total.net>
I believe the open cockpit you see in the picture is flown by one of Chris Heintz' sons. Call the factory to ask about this mod Grant Corriveau ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "barry mayne" <bazmay(at)ozemail.com.au>
Subject: regulations
Date: Aug 29, 1999
To all who read the list. I thought you may be interested to know the differences between the Experimental catagory in the U.S. and Australia. Our experimental catagory only came into effect last October and is still not quite complete, however the following is how it is now. 1. We obtain a building permit from the Sport Aircraft Association of Australia. 2. you can then build without any inspections If you like and have a final inspection ( pre first flight ) there are no requirements for any intermediate inspections or pre closing. A bit weird when you think about how tough the regulating body has been in the past. 3. You can vertually use any material you like as the attitude is " it's your butt up there not ours" 4. Flight over populated areas--- no problem 5. A late addition will be the ability for a builder to use his workmans certificate on any aircraft of the same type of construction that he or she may purchase in the future. All the other regs are much the same. My opinion of the no inspection required is not a good move although they do urge you to have inspections. One very interesting part is that in the past you could not make your own cable swages, they had to be made by a professional body and certified, now apaarently we are capable of making our own. Thought this may be of interest. Barry Mayne HDS waiting for warmer weather before tackling canopy. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Dual Stick Mod
Date: Aug 29, 1999
Attended the Zenith Open Hanger Day in Mexico yesterday and had a great time meeting other builders. I mentioned that I had some drawings I received from Alan Cozens that I would share. Please email me directly if you are one of the interested builders. By the way, the eaddress for Alan < alan.cozens(at)which.net > seems to be outdated. Does anyone have a current one? Thanks, Albert Gardner LaGrange, KY albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 1999
From: Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net>
Subject: new
Hello everyone. As a new plans purchaser I was hoping somebody out there could tell me were the best source is for getting Alu- sheets and rivets and such. And I don't suppose anybody has any flange dies laying around with dust on them! Truth is I'm still trying to figuare out what materal the flanges are made out of after looking at the plans. Maybe this means I'm dumber than dirt or over my head or just need glasses! phil, need help ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 1999
From: Fred Hulen <fhulen(at)gabs.net>
Subject: Zenith Event... Yeah!
What a Blast. Zenth has really expanded, and as usual, their hospitality was first class! MUCH bigger attendance of builders, aircaft, and the general public. I got to meet many of you that I knew only as messages and names on this net. Those of you that brought pictures and shared ideas... Many Thanks. Special thanks to the Mike Slaughter, Mike Fathergill, and Dave Austin, who flew there 601 HDS's in from Canada and Fort Lauderdale to make this Open Hanger a really great day. I picked the two Mike's brains until they couldn't hardly remember who they were.... just kidding, but got some great ideas and photos. And to Mike Slaughter... Hey, you really made my day by taking me up in your 601... what a great job you have done on it! Guys, it was really hot out there on the ramp as we waited for several planes to leave the active runway, but Mike held the canopy up a bit, and the prop gave us a welcome breeze. The view from the 601 bubble is soooo awsome, I can't get over not seeing ANY structure, just beautiful view. Big thanks to Zenith, all of you guys that made it there, What a great day! Fred Hulen Lee's Summit, Mo. (I picked up my canopy bubble and associated parts. Recon I'll have my hands full with plenty to do for a while) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Newell" <anewell(at)canuck.com>
Subject: Re: First Flight
Date: Aug 29, 1999
Congratulations Bruce. May you have many hours of happy flying. I'm glad that everything went well with the flight and I also found the Zodiac an easy flying aircraft but I'd advise peole to get a few hours in type before their first flight. You never know when you will have a problem. I speak from experience as I had to do an off airport landing after only 5 hours in the air with my aircraft because of an engine problem and I was glad that I had some previous experience in Zodiacs. Remember that most homebuilt accidents happen in the first 10 hours or so. (I've over 100 hours now with no more problems). Regards,Alan Newell, Calgary, Alberta, Canada ---------- > From: Bruce Bockius <elrond(at)xprt.net> > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight > Date: August 27, 1999 3:52 PM > > > Today I performed the first flight of my CH601HD taildragger with > Stratus engine. Everything seemed to go well - the plane and I are > still in one piece! Over the last three years of building I've found > other's first flight announcements very motivating, so I thought I'd let > everyone still building know that there is one more Zodiac in the air! > > Also, if you're not sure if you can test fly the plane yourself you > should know that I only have 120 hours total time, have never flown in a > Zodiac or any other low-wing plane before, and have only 1.2 hours > flight time in the last nine months (a BFR in May). That should prove > that the plane handles easily! > > -Bruce > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Steer <bsteer(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Wing end rib
Date: Aug 29, 1999
Hello, folks. I'm fitting the end rib 6V2-2 to the wing skeleton. The plans specify an approximate dimension of 80 mm from the front of the rib to the aft side of the spar tip. But in order for mine to fit (I'm using the factory kit), and for the end rib to align with the position of the riblet, I end up with a dimension that varies from 63 mm at the top of the rib to 72 mm at the bottom. If I do that, everything fits fine and the crimps in the rib don't interfere with either the spar tip or the rear Zee extention. What's everybody else's experience with that 80 mm dimension and the positioning of the end rib? Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 1999
From: Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: new
Phil, For aluminium, go to a local metal supplier. Here, around Montreal, we have several suppliers, including Ideal Metal. I purchase my aluminium from a small reseller (I don't know how he gets those deals). For a 4X12 sheet of 0.025", I pay 100$ canadian (that is about 65$US). The 0.016" is cheaper. For the rivets, go directly to Advel Textron.... Carlos Sa published their phone number last year. Look in the archives. The last time I purchased, a box of 1000 A4 rivets was 45$cdn (about 30$US?). Flange dies? Do you mean for lightening holes? Mine (well, they are borrowed) are made of hard wood. They work well with a homemade hydraulic press. All my ribs are done with those... the only problem is the press. It failed twice so far (6-ton pressure is quite a bit). Details on how to make the dies are in the builder manual (not on the plans). --- Phil Peck wrote: > phil, need help We all do! I don't know where you live, but look for an amateur builders club... something like a RAA or EAA chapter. I belong to the RAA 415 chapter near Montreal and because of that, I have access to invaluable support. I met several builders, all very helpful. I think that without them, I would already have quit the project. === Michel Therrien http://www.netaxis.qc.ca/people/m.therrien Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: asp(at)jet2.net
Date: Aug 29, 1999
Subject: Re: new
Michel Therrien wrote: > > Flange dies? Do you mean for lightening holes? Mine > (well, they are borrowed) are made of hard wood. They > work well with a homemade hydraulic press. All my > ribs are done with those... the only problem is the > press. It failed twice so far (6-ton pressure is quite > a bit). > A lot of builders just used a vise to squeeze the dies. Mine were of wood too and had a large bolt thru the centre to squeeze it. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 1999
From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: new
What does RAA stand for??? > >Phil, > >For aluminium, go to a local metal supplier. Here, >around Montreal, we have several suppliers, including >Ideal Metal. I purchase my aluminium from a small >reseller (I don't know how he gets those deals). For >a 4X12 sheet of 0.025", I pay 100$ canadian (that is >about 65$US). The 0.016" is cheaper. > >For the rivets, go directly to Advel Textron.... >Carlos Sa published their phone number last year. >Look in the archives. The last time I purchased, a >box of 1000 A4 rivets was 45$cdn (about 30$US?). > >Flange dies? Do you mean for lightening holes? Mine >(well, they are borrowed) are made of hard wood. They >work well with a homemade hydraulic press. All my >ribs are done with those... the only problem is the >press. It failed twice so far (6-ton pressure is quite >a bit). > >Details on how to make the dies are in the builder >manual (not on the plans). > >--- Phil Peck wrote: >> phil, need help > >We all do! I don't know where you live, but look for >an amateur builders club... something like a RAA or >EAA chapter. I belong to the RAA 415 chapter near >Montreal and because of that, I have access to >invaluable support. I met several builders, all very >helpful. I think that without them, I would already >have quit the project. > > >=== >Michel Therrien >http://www.netaxis.qc.ca/people/m.therrien >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! Visit our web site at... http://www.bellanca-championclub.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 1999
From: Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: new
--- Cy Galley wrote: > > What does RAA stand for??? Recreational Aircraft Association. It is a Canadian association. Like the EAA, the RAA has various chapters in different locations. They are also madated by Transport Canada for inspections (precover and final). === Michel Therrien http://www.netaxis.qc.ca/people/m.therrien Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 1999
From: Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: new
--- asp(at)jet2.net wrote: > A lot of builders just used a vise to squeeze the > dies. Mine were of wood too > and had a large bolt thru the centre to squeeze it. I tried first with a bolt thru the center of the die. While the flange was nice, the rib was "popping". The reason is the inequal bend of the flange. My mentor explained me that the strenght of the aluminium is different accros the grain than with the direction of the grain. Therefore, it requires quite a bit of uniform pressure to make an equal bend. I started with a 2-ton press, but it was still not satisfactory. The 6-ton press gives me a straight, solid almost non popping rib (many times non popping). === Michel Therrien http://www.netaxis.qc.ca/people/m.therrien Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 1999
From: boardman(at)borg.com (Don Boardman)
Subject: Re: 701 Engine option
> >I'am ready to purchase the engine for my 701,I have decided on the Rotax 912 >but I can't come to decision between the 912 or the 912S. I would appreciate >any opinions,pros and cons etc. My 912 on the land version worked quite well. I am now on amphib floats and would like to have more power. If you ever plan floats I would go the 912S or even better the 914 Don Boardman Rome, NY N701ST 912 Amphib, 535 Hobbs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Polstra, Phil" <PPOLSTRA(at)exchange.webmd.net>
Subject: Open Hangar Day
Date: Aug 30, 1999
Just got back from the Open Hangar day. Oh what a blast. It was great to meet some others builders in person. Some of us cruised on over to Sliders after the event for dinner and some brews. It was a motivational experience. I got a ride in an 601HDS for the first time and was happy to see that my three years of labor will all be worth it. It was fun heckling Nick a little bit (we were just joking with you :)). I'll definitely be back next year with my completed Zodiac! name="Philip Polstra (E-mail).vcf" filename="Philip Polstra (E-mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Polstra;Philip FN:Philip Polstra ORG:WebMD TITLE:Director of Information Services TEL;WORK;VOICE:(404) 479-7713 TEL;WORK;FAX:(404) 479-7824 tates of America =0AUnited States of America EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:ppolstra(at)webmd.net REV:19990813T111444Z END:VCARD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: asp(at)jet2.net
Date: Aug 30, 1999
Subject: Re: Canopy Installation
Fred Hulen wrote: > I'd gladly welcome input from ANY of you, so please, if you've got some > ideas to contribute, please do. Thanks for the input. Fred > Yup, Fred, I've been there 8-) The main tips I can give are: 1. Get a a 3" X 1/32 Hummer cutoff wheel and chuck. Use this with an air tool..works soooo nice 2. Do the cutting and riveting in fairly warm temps (don't get crazy, 72 is plenty) 3. Make sure that the acrylic is always backed up if you rivet it I have about 100hrs on my riveted canopy. No sign of cracks, though I fly in temps from +100 down to 0F (that was a little cold! thought my hand froze to the stick!) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Glen_Worstell(at)notes.seagate.com
Date: Aug 30, 1999
Subject: Tall pilots, late to open house
>How tall is our tallest 601 pilot? I'm only 6'0", but my CFI is 6'7". Would he fit? Also, is there a tendency to bump your headset on the canopy? I am 6'6". I moved the rudder pedals forward 3" and now my 601 is pretty comfortable. I can't use a thick seat cushion. Sorry to anyone who wanted to see my green and yellow 601HD at the open house. I managed to lose the keys at a fuel stop, and spent hours getting going again. Arrived at 4:00, just after everything was shut down and everyone was gone. cheers, glen. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Pinneo <George.Pinneo(at)trw.com>
Subject: GPS Rollover
Date: Aug 30, 1999
What roll-over problem? My Lowrence works just fine! GGP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 1999
From: Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net>
Subject: thanks
Michel T, I want to thank you for letting me know about the archive elist . I am learning alot by just reading the back posts. But I wish to speed things up a bit. I am curious to know which head to get when ordering the rivets. As their seems to be a differance of thought. Also does anybody keep a list of suppliers and Tel# on a website somewhere. The archives are a little hit and miss. phil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Weight of Chromed Legs...
Date: Aug 30, 1999
Just recently got my gear legs hard chromed. Forgot to weigh them before sending in. If anyone has the virgin gear legs, it would be interesting to see what chroming adds to the process. Don ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 1999
From: Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: thanks
Phil, > Michel T, I want to thank you for letting me know Welcome! > to speed things up a bit. I am curious to know which > head to get when > ordering the rivets. As their seems to be a > differance of thought. If your intention is to follow the plans... and I think it is reasonable to do so, you need the countersunk (flat) rivet head. The part nos are: 01604-00412 for the A4 rivet 01606-00514 for the A5 rivet Avdel Textron takes orders on the phone with credit cards. The phone number is 800-268-9947. Their web site address is www.avdeltextron.ca. Don't be surprised if you don't find these part nos. in their catalog... these are the UK rivets. The US rivets have the following part nos. 1682-0412 and 1682-0514. C. Heinz recommends the UK rivets. A few month ago, I requested help from this list to sort this out... you may find this in the archives. (note: there is a great search engine where you may look for information with keywords). === Michel Therrien http://www.netaxis.qc.ca/people/m.therrien Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 1999
From: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Tall pilots, late to open house
> Hi Glen; Well, at least you tried! We (the 3 red 601's) use the K&N RC-0500 air filter to improve the air intake on the 912. We all gained performance over the original air filters due to the decrease in airflow resistance. Mike F. UHS Spinners > Sorry to anyone who wanted to see my green and yellow 601HD at the open > house. I managed to lose the keys at a fuel stop, and spent hours getting > going again. Arrived at 4:00, just after everything was shut down and > everyone was gone. > > cheers, > glen. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 1999
From: Fred Hulen <fhulen(at)gabs.net>
Subject: Re: Weight of Chromed Legs...
> >Just recently got my gear legs hard chromed. Forgot to weigh them before >sending in. If anyone has the virgin gear legs, it would be interesting to >see what chroming adds to the process. +++ My opinion is that it ADDS wear and rust protection. The tiny thickness won't add hardly any weight as explained by the company that did mine. Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 1999
From: Tim Shankland <tshank(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: thanks
This is a copy of a post I sent ealier this year. Regarding the AVEX rivets I was able to locally source the rivets from a distributor. They can be purchased as The part numbers I listed are from the Avdel Technical Data sheet. I took the rivets I had to a local distributor that deal exclusivly in Avex rivets. I didn't take them a few minute to match the ones I had. These are identical in size shape and strength to those provided by ZAC. I use the same rivet puller that I modified and the result is the same. If anyone is interested The complany I got mine from does take credit cards and ships UPS Crawford Products 3637 Corporate Dr Columbus, Ohio 4331 1-800-666-3424 Phil Peck wrote: > > > Michel T, I want to thank you for letting me know about the archive > elist . I am learning alot by just reading the back posts. But I wish > to speed things up a bit. I am curious to know which head to get when > ordering the rivets. As their seems to be a differance of thought. > Also does anybody keep a list of suppliers and Tel# on a website > somewhere. The archives are a little hit and miss. > > phil > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 1999
From: Tim Shankland <tshank(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: thanks
Phil Peck wrote: > > > Michel T, I want to thank you for letting me know about the archive > elist . I am learning alot by just reading the back posts. But I wish > to speed things up a bit. I am curious to know which head to get when > ordering the rivets. As their seems to be a differance of thought. > Also does anybody keep a list of suppliers and Tel# on a website > somewhere. The archives are a little hit and miss. > > phil > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Cables & Ground Straps
>--> RV-List message posted by: pcondon(at)csc.com > > >I crimped my battery cables with a bottle jack ( or sissor jack ) , a sorta >sharp-angled piece of STEEL angle iron ( bed frame angle iron ) & #2 copper >lugs. I simply positioned the cable--stripped- into the copper lug, shimmed >under my car, found a stout frame member and placed the cable/copper lug between >the angle iron and the frame member of the car and jacked up to squash-- I mean >crimp- the assembly together. Took 5 minutes & cost nothing. I did this for a >friend a few weeks later but walked up the street & crawled under a truck to >jack-crimp the cable(the truck was much heaver & produced a perfect crimp). >Don't over jack to distort the copper lug.............happy crimping It's also very easy to solder large terminals onto fat wires . . . see: http://www.aereoelectric.com/articles.html and page down to "Big Connections" . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1999
Subject: Re: Canopy Installation
From: "Grant Corriveau" <gfcorriv(at)total.net>
Jimmy, I just scanned the photos of your canopy work and I thank you. I helps me picture my own sequence. If I see the photo correctly you have anchored your gas strut on the upper longeron just inside the forward cockpit area, as opposed to taking it to the floor through the forward skin. I recall someone had searched out a 'special length' gas strut for his project a while back on the list - I guess this was you. Looks like an interesting mod. Grant Montreal > > Fred, It wasn't me that you spoke with earlier, but I did just complete my > canopy installation. And other than two small cracks (due to shear > stupidity), it went flawlessly. I used the forward hinging system with a > few of my own modifications. If you are interested, I will give the details > of how it went. There are some pictures on my website under "canopy", see > at: www.crosswinds.net/little-rock/~jayres/zodiac.html > > Jimmy Ayres > 601HDS (still working on cowling) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: UNCRT(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 31, 1999
Subject: Lycoming horse power
In about 6 weeks, I'll be placing an order for either a 701 complete kit or an 801 FWB kit. The cost of the FWF in the 801 is my determining factor. I'm still researching everything I can about alternative engines, but right now I'm most interested in info on lycoming model #'s vs. horse power rating, i.e., is a 0-360 always 180 HP? Any help I can get in this 701/801 decision making process is sorely appreciated. Roger Osborne Have plans for 701. UNCRT(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PWalsh8045(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 31, 1999
Subject: Re: Lycoming horse power
It is my understanding that a Lycoming would be too heavy for a 701...would not take advantage of the stol characteristics. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "AYRES, JIMMY L" <JAYRES(at)entergy.com>
Subject: Canopy Installation
Date: Aug 31, 1999
Hey Grant, I am glad you got a little benefit from the pictures. I will try to remember the steps and sequence I went through: 1. First, I installed the forward hinge brackets per the ZAC forward hinged canopy drawings. 2. Then, I installed the top skin. I didn't like the idea of cutting the slot in the sides of the top skin, so I just bent the side edges to come down just on the inside edge of the upper longeron. I left about 4" on the front to go over the hinge (see pictures on my website). I also decided to make my top skin removable for later access to instruments, so I installed tinnerman u-clips along the IP and firewall flanges and screwed #10 machine screws through the skin into the tinnerman fasteners. 3. Next, I installed the side tubes (I used a 3/4" conduit bender to get the right curvature to match the upper longerons) 4. Then, I installed the latching system. I used the original ZAC double hook design since I already had the parts. I altered the actuator mechanism a little too. Rather than anchor the mechanism through rear seat channel, I went straight through the baggage floor (I thought it would be easier to line-up the mechanism with the hook actuating levers that way. It worked out pretty well, but I did have to do some stiffening. You can see a pretty bad picture on my website. 5. Then, I laid the bubble up on the fuselage. (if you have a header tank like I do, be careful not to position the bubble too far forward, like I did). 6. Then, I bent/cut the front and rear tubes to fit inside the bubble. Once the tubes fit up against the bubble and on the side frame tubes, I drilled and clecoed the bubble to the front and rear tubes. The beauty of this method (recommended by Nick Heintz) is that I didn't have to cut the bubble at all. 7. Next I made and installed the outer side panel which closes the air gap between the bubble and the side frame tubes. After drilling and clecoing these pieces in place, I removed the clecos and bubble, and made the inner side panels. The plans call for each inner panel to be one piece with cutouts for the hooks. This did not seem practical to me, so I made each side out of three pieces (one long piece in the middle and two short pieces on either side of the front and rear hooks). (See pictures on my website). 8. After making and drilling/clecoing the inner panel, disassembled everything, deburred, painted and reassembled everything. Once everything was in place, I drilled the bubble holes out to 1/4" one at a time and installed the spacers and screws (I think the trick to not cracking the bubble while drilling is to use a high speed drill and push very lightly and slowly). 9. Somewhere in all this, I made a couple of cover panels to fit over the side frame tubes from the hinge to the bubble (see pictures on website). 10. Then I riveted all of the aluminum parts to the frame and bubble. Caution!!! The trailing end of the outer side panel that goes back past the rear tube must be riveted to the bubble. This is where I got stupid and cracked my bubble. I forgot to put an aluminum backing plate behind the Plexiglas and when I pulled my second rivet (in this region) it cracked at both rivets. I drilled them out, made a backing plate and had no further problems. 11. Then I attached the rubber seal around the front and rear edge of the bubble. I used clear silicone (I will let y'all know how well that holds up). 12. At this point the canopy system was basically done except for the gas springs, which I did next. I wanted to mount the gas springs between the front and rear hooks which required that I have about a 35" stroke to get the canopy opened up high enough. This proved to be a problem since almost everyone that sells the gas springs doesn't have one that has that much stroke without going up to about 100 pounds of force, which is too much. I finally found a company that does sell a gas spring with 35" of stroke at 30 pounds (which is still a bit much, 20 would be better) The company is "Orr & Orr" in Chicago. Their phone is: 773-254-0022. This gas spring uses a 13mm ball and socket. An alternative to this would be to use a different latching system (or not use the front hook). This would allow the hinge point on the gas spring (on the fuselage) to be move further forward and maybe require less stroke. I think George Pinneo did this successfully. You can see pictures of the gas springs and the attachment points on my website). And that was that. It really wasn't too bad of a job. The only real problems I had were the two cracks and placing the bubble too far forward (which required cutting a little out of the bubble to clear the gas cap). I know this has been lengthy and I apologize for that. I hope this helps you (and others). Jimmy Ayres 601HDS (STillllllllll working on cowling) -----Original Message----- From: Grant Corriveau [mailto:gfcorriv(at)total.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 8:22 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy Installation Jimmy, I just scanned the photos of your canopy work and I thank you. I helps me picture my own sequence. If I see the photo correctly you have anchored your gas strut on the upper longeron just inside the forward cockpit area, as opposed to taking it to the floor through the forward skin. I recall someone had searched out a 'special length' gas strut for his project a while back on the list - I guess this was you. Looks like an interesting mod. Grant Montreal > > Fred, It wasn't me that you spoke with earlier, but I did just complete my > canopy installation. And other than two small cracks (due to shear > stupidity), it went flawlessly. I used the forward hinging system with a > few of my own modifications. If you are interested, I will give the details > of how it went. There are some pictures on my website under "canopy", see > at: www.crosswinds.net/little-rock/~jayres/zodiac.html > > Jimmy Ayres > 601HDS (still working on cowling) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven J. Devine" <steve(at)tzogon.com>
Subject: Re: Lycoming horse power
Date: Aug 31, 1999
>It is my understanding that a Lycoming would be too heavy for a 701... >would not take advantage of the stol characteristics. Yes, but Roger (UNCRT(at)aol.com) was debating on getting the 801 vs. 701... the main question relating to the firewall forward costs of an 801. He was talking about the O-360 (~180-200 HP) Lycoming models for the 801. I have done a small amount of research on ~200 HP engines so far, and they are detailed on the engine pages pf my build log. A link to the build log is down below... Happy building... followed by happy flying. Steve Devine 801 - working on tail section... 25+/- hours into building http://web.tzogon.com/~steve/stolch801 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: UNCRT(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 31, 1999
Subject: Re:CH701
Yo, Brian I have what Zenith markets as "PLANS, MANUAL, AND PHOTO GUIDE", the first thing listed on their Pricing web page for the 701, ($320). It appears to me these plans are not included in the other packages, even the "complete" airframe kit. So if I build the 701, I'll have to keep them, but if I build the 801, then yes, I would sell them. BTW, if I do the 701, I was planning on the FWF engine accessories, instruments and rotax packages all together from Zenith. That's what I'm kinda comparing to when I'm looking at the lycoming installation expense for the 801. Obviously, it is going to be considerably more, but how much is 'considerably'? And thanks Matt and all you guys, this ( the List ) is awesome. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1999
From: Chuck Deiterich <cfd(at)tstar.net>
Subject: Re:CH701
Yes the plans do come with the kit. I got a complete 701 kit in March and got a set of plans, a construction manual and two photo packages as part of the kit. But I'll tell you I have to periodically e-mail ZAC with questions to be sure I'm following the plans correctly, however, they are very good about getting you the answer prmoptly. Chuck----- as of today, I now have two completed wing skeletons. UNCRT(at)aol.com wrote: > > Yo, Brian > I have what Zenith markets as "PLANS, MANUAL, AND PHOTO GUIDE", the first > thing listed on their Pricing web page for the 701, ($320). It appears to me > these plans are not included in the other packages, even the "complete" > airframe kit. So if I build the 701, I'll have to keep them, but if I build > the 801, then yes, I would sell them. BTW, if I do the 701, I was planning on > the FWF engine accessories, instruments and rotax packages all together from > Zenith. That's what I'm kinda comparing to when I'm looking at the lycoming > installation expense for the 801. Obviously, it is going to be considerably > more, but how much is 'considerably'? > And thanks Matt and all you guys, this ( the List ) is awesome. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com>
Subject: RE: Canopy Installation (attaching the seal)
Date: Aug 31, 1999
>11. Then I attached the rubber seal around the front and rear edge of the >bubble. I used clear silicone (I will let y'all know how well that holds >up). We tried clear silicon sealant, but it wouldn't stick to the acrylic. Within a day we peeled the seal strip off effortlessly. At least it was easy to scrape it out of the rubber seal, so it was no big deal that it didn't work. (We're currently using some sort of all purpose clear glue found in a hardware store. That's been fine for a month so far.) Peter Chapman C-GZDC Toronto, ON ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: "full field test"
>I am hav.ing trouble with my alternator, and I have heard of a 'full field >Test'. Can you tell me what this test is or where I can find a description >Of it? Yes sir! The "full field" test is a VERY useful tool in diagnosing charger system difficulties but it must be done with caution. Of course, it applies only to alternators with external regulators. It's also not applicable to alternators with permanent magnet fields (like Rotax and B&C SD-8 alternators). Fabricate a jumper harness from a toggle switch (or even a push button if it's good for 5 amps or so) and two lengths of 20AWG wire long enough to reach from pilot's seat and the rear of your alternator. Disconnect the small wire from the alternator's field terminal and attach one of wires of your test harness. Attach the other wire to the alternator's output terminal or b-lead. Start with the test switch OFF or open. Start your engine. Monitor bus voltage with a good voltmeter and it's also really nice if your airplane is equipped with an alternator loadmeter (alternator output amps). Start the engine. Bus voltage should be equal to battery voltage . . . something around 12.5 volts or below. Turn on landing lights and pitot heat if you have them. Turn all radios OFF. Operate engine at minimum RPM and close your test switch while watching bus voltage. If it rises above 14 volts, shut the switch off and go to plan-B. The only time this will happen is if your idle speed is pretty high and your alternator pulley ratio is pretty fast also. Most likely, you will not see any increase in bus voltage. Now, carefully increase RPM until bus voltage reads 14 volts. Now turn everything ON that you can load the bus with except radios. Increase RPM's again to get 14 volts. If you can get 14 volts at any RPM below cruise values, then your alternator is probably okay. Pull the throttle back to idle, turn your test switch OFF, turn off all electro-goodies in your airplane and then shut things down. Another, less tricky test uses an el-cheapo automotive voltage regulator (generic Ford aftermarket is a good one . . . they can be had for about $20 or less). Rig test leads on test regulator as follows: B-lead input wire goes to pins "A" and "S" on regulator. A ground lead goes to the regulator case. A field ouput wire goes to the regulator's "F" lead. Leave the "I" lead un-connected. Again, remove the existing field lead from the rear of your alternator. Make a temporary installation of the test regulator by attaching "A/S" wire to the alternator's b-lead terminal. Attach "F" wire to alternator field. Attach ground wire to alternator case. Start engine and watch bus voltage. If the alternator is okay, the system will come up to 14 volts and carry all system loads at some RPM below cruise. If the alternator is bad, then you're not going to get enough output to bring the bus up to 14 volts . . . maybe no output at all. The snap-in test regulator is an excellent test tool to isolate regulator/wiring problems from alternator problems. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < Independence Kansas: the > < Jurassic Park of aviation. > < Your source for brand new > < 40 year old airplanes. > ================================= http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 1999
From: Darla Golin <darlajean(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Canopy Installation (attaching the seal)
> > >>11. Then I attached the rubber seal around the front and rear edge of the >>bubble. I used clear silicone (I will let y'all know how well that holds >>up). > >We tried clear silicon sealant, but it wouldn't stick to the acrylic. Within >a day we peeled the seal strip off effortlessly. At least it was easy to >scrape it out of the rubber seal, so it was no big deal that it didn't work. >(We're currently using some sort of all purpose clear glue found in a >hardware store. That's been fine for a month so far.) > >Peter Chapman C-GZDC Toronto, ON > Hi guys, Regular 'ol thin crazy glue works great for installing the rubber seal. Just run a small amount inside the rubber channel- about 6-10 inches at a time. Cheers Mike Slaughter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Tannock" <James.Tannock(at)nottingham.ac.uk>
Date: Sep 01, 1999
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pumps
Claude wrote > On my 701 I mounted the Facet pump in serie between the front tank and > the 912 mechanical pump. I use it only as a booster at start. > I'm obliged to switch it ON before starting after the engine has been > switched off for few minutes to get rid of the vapor lock under the > hot cowl here in summer. That's the same way I've installed my Facet pump, although I haven't tried it out yet. In my 912S installation manual it shows a diagram of a vapour return system mounted between the mechanical fuel piump and the carbs. Has anyone used this to get rid of vapour lock? James Tannock Nottingham England 601HD Fitting out firewall and IP. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AWilson62(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 01, 1999
Subject: Re:CH701
Hey you guys, My name is Alan and I just test flew my 701 here in Illinois. I built from plans so can give you advice etc. I just want to stay in touch with 701 guys and maybe some day we can have little fly-ins etc. Anyway if you have any questions drop me a line. I do not although check my e-mail too often so don't be hurt if you don't here from me always right away. Maybe we can create a 701 e-mail address list that we keep adding to. Alan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Pinneo <George.Pinneo(at)trw.com>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pumps
Date: Sep 01, 1999
I hooked my 912 up per Zenith's plans using a Facet pump only for fuel pressure boost before startup. I've no problems in 200.+ hours; if there's any vapor-lock, I've not seen it. GGP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 1999
From: Chris Boultinghouse <zodiacbuilder(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Canopy Installation (attaching the seal)
--- Darla Golin wrote: > Hi guys, > Regular 'ol thin crazy glue works great for installing the > rubber > seal. Just run a small amount inside the rubber channel- about 6-10 > inches > at a time. > Cheers Mike Slaughter --- Darla Golin wrote: > Hi guys, > Regular 'ol thin crazy glue works great for installing the > rubber > seal. Just run a small amount inside the rubber channel- about 6-10 > inches > at a time. > Cheers Mike Slaughter Mike, One thing I discovered (the hard way) regarding cyano glues and clear plastics from my modeling days: It will often "fog" the plastic when the glue kicks. Doesn't happen all the time, but when it does you'll end up with a white residue on the plastic that is virtually impossible to remove. To avoid this, use cyano formulated for plastics (Poly ZAP is the brand I'm familiar with, from Pacer Technologies). It is available from local hobby shops, or online from http://www.towerhobbies.com. From the tech notes section on the product: "Poly Zap is a high performance CA formula disigned to work on the new space age plastic materials of today and tomorrow. Excellent on LEXAN (tm), delrin, polycarbonate, and nylon parts. Non-fogging formula when KICKER is NOT used. Ideal for clear canopies. Works with fiberglass cloth patches on damaged LEXAN (tm) car bodies. Repairs almost ready to fly (ARF) & EZ (r) aircraft & boats. Repairs rubber bumpers on family cars. 12 month shelf life." === Regards, Chris Boultinghouse http://members.tripod.com/zodiacbuilder My opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer (or anyone else, for that matter). Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 1999
From: "Dennis G. Douglas" <ddouglas(at)coastside.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Canopy Installation (attaching the seal)
Chris Boultinghouse wrote: > > > --- Darla Golin wrote: > > > Hi guys, > > Regular 'ol thin crazy glue works great for installing the > > rubber > > seal. Just run a small amount inside the rubber channel- about 6-10 > > inches > > at a time. > > Cheers Mike Slaughter > > --- Darla Golin wrote: > > > Hi guys, > > Regular 'ol thin crazy glue works great for installing the > > rubber > > seal. Just run a small amount inside the rubber channel- about 6-10 > > inches > > at a time. > > Cheers Mike Slaughter Mike.. Those instant glues are very brittle. They might hold OK during construction but when the shakin' starts, I suspect the glues will fail right away.... Dennis Douglas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 1999
From: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: RE: Canopy Installation (attaching the seal)
Gang; Mine never failed. Mike "Dennis G. Douglas" wrote: > > Chris Boultinghouse wrote: > > > > > > --- Darla Golin wrote: > > > > > Hi guys, > > > Regular 'ol thin crazy glue works great for installing the > > > rubber > > > seal. Just run a small amount inside the rubber channel- about 6-10 > > > inches > > > at a time. > > > Cheers Mike Slaughter > > > > --- Darla Golin wrote: > > > > > Hi guys, > > > Regular 'ol thin crazy glue works great for installing the > > > rubber > > > seal. Just run a small amount inside the rubber channel- about 6-10 > > > inches > > > at a time. > > > Cheers Mike Slaughter > > Mike.. Those instant glues are very brittle. They might hold OK during > construction but when the shakin' starts, I suspect the glues will fail > right away.... > Dennis Douglas > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 1999
From: Darla Golin <darlajean(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Canopy Installation (attaching the seal)
> >> Hi guys, >> Regular 'ol thin crazy glue works great for installing the >> rubber >> seal. Just run a small amount inside the rubber channel- about 6-10 >> inches >> at a time. >> Cheers Mike Slaughter > > >Mike, > >One thing I discovered (the hard way) regarding cyano glues and clear >plastics from my modeling days: It will often "fog" the plastic when >the glue kicks. Doesn't happen all the time, but when it does you'll >end up with a white residue on the plastic that is virtually impossible >to remove. > >To avoid this, use cyano formulated for plastics (Poly ZAP is the brand >I'm familiar with, from Pacer Technologies). It is available from >local hobby shops, or online from http://www.towerhobbies.com. From >the tech notes section on the product: > >"Poly Zap is a high performance CA formula disigned to work on the new >space age plastic materials of today and tomorrow. Excellent on LEXAN >(tm), delrin, polycarbonate, and nylon parts. Non-fogging formula when >KICKER is NOT used. Ideal for clear canopies. Works with fiberglass >cloth patches on damaged LEXAN (tm) car bodies. Repairs almost ready to >fly (ARF) & EZ (r) aircraft & boats. Repairs rubber bumpers on family >cars. 12 month shelf life." > >=== >Regards, > >Chris Boultinghouse Hi Guys, Some interesting comments on the cyano glues. Mike Fothergill did some experimenting with the Poly-Zap, and we use that to actually repair cracks in the canopy-works great-but I have found the regular cyano glue to work fine with the rubber seal, with no indication of fogging on contact, or failing after 800 hours. That said, I think the best recommendation and safest method is to use the Poly-Zap. One thing I forgot to mention is to use masking tape every foot or so to hold the seal in place while the glue dries. Cheers, Mike Slaughter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pumps (&return line)
Date: Sep 01, 1999
At 12:07 01-09-1999 GMT0BST, you wrote: >tried it out yet. In my 912S installation manual it shows a diagram >of a vapour return system mounted between the mechanical fuel piump >and the carbs. Has anyone used this to get rid of vapour lock? I've never YET heard of a 601 using it. A couple Rotax dealers / distributors I talked to said they 'recommend' it, although I doubt many of their customers (except in the certified Katana) install the vapour return line. Peter Chapman Toronto, ON ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Steer <bsteer(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Fuel lines
Date: Sep 01, 1999
Hello, folks. ZAC supplies rubber fuel line, with appropriate fittings, with their leading edge fuel tank kit. But I've seen some mention in this list of aluminum tubing fuel lines. What have those of you who have the LE fuel tanks used in the various parts of the fuel system (i.e., tanks to pumps, pumps to gascolator, etc.)? Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 1999
From: Don Berridge <berridge(at)cis.net>
Subject: Aileron Root Rib
A question for anyone who has completed their 601 HDS ailerons: I'm not sure how to align the aileron root ribs 6V10-31. I have cut the 11-deg angle on the aileron top skin as per the building sequence but have hit a snag. What is the correct way to locate the cut line on the bottom skin to accommodate the root rib? If the aileron is flat on the worktable, with top skin up, should the rib be at 90 degrees (vertical) relative to the tabletop? This seems logical to me however, if I flip the aileron over (top skin down on the worktable) the rib is no longer vertical when assembled as described above. Am I missing something obvious?? Thanks Don Berridge CH601 HDS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darryl West" <rdwest(at)cadvision.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Canopy Installation (attaching the seal)
Date: Sep 01, 1999
Cyanoacrylate has held my rubber edging onto the canopy fine for 4 years so far. As noted by others, watch out for the glue vapor precipitating onto (permanently fogging) the canopy near the joint. Just keep good ventilation while drying to prevent this. I think I also washed the rubber strip with methanol prior to bonding in order to remove greasy factory residue. Darryl ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 1999
From: Chuck Deiterich <cfd(at)tstar.net>
Subject: 701 wings
As of yesterday I have 2 (left and right) CH 701 wing skeletons done. Today our chapter EAA 889 Tech Counselor looked at them and signed my construction log book. I may build the stabilizer and elevator before I skin the wings just to get some practice putting skins on. Does anyone have any opinions on skinning the stabilizer and elevator before I try the wing? I bench tested my strobe and nav lights yesterday, I just couldn't stand seeing them in a box on the shelf and not putting power to them, they worked fine - double flashes. Chuck Deiterich ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Re: 701 wings
Date: Sep 02, 1999
Chuck, One of the things that my tech con. mentioned was that it was generally preferred to start with the tail section first. That way as your learning and make mistakes, if you need to replace a part it is much less expensive. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Deiterich <cfd(at)tstar.net> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 11:55 AM Subject: Zenith-List: 701 wings > > As of yesterday I have 2 (left and right) CH 701 wing skeletons done. > Today our chapter EAA 889 Tech Counselor looked at them and signed my > construction log book. > > I may build the stabilizer and elevator before I skin the wings just to > get some practice putting skins on. Does anyone have any opinions on > skinning the stabilizer and elevator before I try the wing? > > I bench tested my strobe and nav lights yesterday, I just couldn't stand > seeing them in a box on the shelf and not putting power to them, they > worked fine - double flashes. > Chuck Deiterich > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net>
Subject: Saddle and rear top skin
Date: Sep 02, 1999
I'm having a problem getting a smooth transition between the top rear skin and the fiberglass saddle. I am getting a pucker affect due to the compound curves between the two pieces. Any suggestions or do I have to live with some wrinkles in the .016" aluminum??? Thanks, Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Pinneo <George.Pinneo(at)trw.com>
Subject: Saddle and rear top skin
Date: Sep 02, 1999
I got some "deformation" of the aluminum skin where the fiberglass compresses, also. You might try to use stainless washers on the bottom of the fiberglass to spread-out the rivet-force. GGP ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jtlazear" <jtlazear1(at)excite.com>
Subject: Re: 701 wings
Date: Sep 02, 1999
> > As of yesterday I have 2 (left and right) CH 701 wing skeletons done. > When I skined my stabilizer I got some twist in it and had to drill out severial rivits. So I would be cautious when drilling and riviting. Tom Lazear 701 ready to install engine. > > > > > > > > > Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ronbo135(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 02, 1999
Subject: Re: Saddle and rear top skin
You can change the shape of the fibreglass a little if that would help. Take a hair dryer/heat gun to the glass and heat it up until if gets plastic and you can re-form it a little. Gloves help. Too hot and you'l buble the surface a bit. Probably not good for impoprtant structural pieces, but it didn't seem to change anything but the shape, that I could tell. I did this on my wing tips because, frankly, they were not very well made. They were sort of crude, distorted, and didn't fit well. The elevator tips I purchased recently look like better quality. My tail saddle I bought with the wing tips about 3 years ago and it will need help too. Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 1999
From: Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net>
Subject: (no subject)
As a beginner,having checked out every archive on rivets and aluminum suppliers, I have come to the following conclusions: Everybody is building their 601 &701 projects with all kinds of rivets from every manufacture or location. And the rivets seem to work fine with no obvious differences in strengths or safety issues. At this point in time I seem to be heading in the direction of the designer and his use of the UK rivets, but that reforming of the head seems to bug me a little. Any rivet comments on the subject should be e-mail to me directly as I sense that the zenith list is a little tired of the subject. Your comments could possably help me to decide on a obviously important part of the building of my 701. I am also looking for a Aluminum supply in the California or Oregon area that has the same great prices that Canada seems to have. So far Zenith has the best prices on Alu- sheets. phil -- Check out Crusader Toys @ http://www.Crusadertoys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pumps
George Pinneo wrote: > I hooked my 912 up per Zenith's plans using a Facet pump only for fuel > pressure boost before startup. I've no problems in 200.+ hours; if there's > any vapor-lock, I've not seen it. > When you boost the pressure, the pump noise is different if the fuel moves forward (clear noise = vapor-lock), or not (muffled noise = there was no vapor-lock, or you got rid of it). Claude ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Tannock" <James.Tannock(at)nottingham.ac.uk>
Date: Sep 03, 1999
Subject: Re: Saddle and rear top skin
Bill wrote:- > I'm having a problem getting a smooth transition between the top rear skin > and the fiberglass saddle. I am getting a pucker affect due to the compound > curves between the two pieces. > > Any suggestions or do I have to live with some wrinkles in the .016" > aluminum??? Remarkably, I had no problem at that point. I slipped the saddle under the top skin and used self-tapping screws and tinnermans fixings slipped over the edge of the fiberglass, rather than rivets. (I want easy access as I have located my elevator cable adjuster under the saddle - too hard to reach in the bottom of the armrest.) The saddle pulled up to the skin quite easily. James Tannock Nottingham England 601HD Fitting out firewall and IP. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pumps
James Tannock wrote: > > In my 912S installation manual it shows a diagram > of a vapour return system mounted between the mechanical fuel piump > and the carbs. Has anyone used this to get rid of vapour lock? > James This system needs a hose with a calibrated hole between the carbs and the tank, as close as possible to the carbs. The diameter of the hole depends upon the fuel pressure at the output of the mech pump (you have to monitor this pressure). You would get rid of a vapor-lock in the hoses, but what about a vapor lock inside the carb, raised at a fairly high temp by the exhaust pipe just below ??? And what if this tiny hole is blocked up with some sh__ ??? This system is used in Diesel cars and in central heating installations mainly to re-heat somewhat the gasoil tank in very cold winters. In my opinion, too far from a KISS system. Claude ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 1999
From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Facet Fuel Pumps
The vented return is also used on Cars. I had it on all my Volkwagen Rabbits. It is also in use on all Bellanca 14-13 Airplanes as they had a problem with the pump pressure over coming the float level. To solve, there is a pressure relief valve that returns the excess pressure to the tank. Since there is always excess pressure, this circulates the fuel so that it doesn't have time to heat up. Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh EAA volunteer for 28 continous years > >James Tannock wrote: >> >> In my 912S installation manual it shows a diagram >> of a vapour return system mounted between the mechanical fuel piump >> and the carbs. Has anyone used this to get rid of vapour lock? >> > >James >This system needs a hose with a calibrated hole between the carbs and the >tank, as close as possible to the carbs. The diameter of the hole depends >upon the fuel pressure at the output of the mech pump (you have to monitor >this pressure). >You would get rid of a vapor-lock in the hoses, but what about a vapor lock >inside the carb, raised at a fairly high temp by the exhaust pipe just below ??? >And what if this tiny hole is blocked up with some sh__ ??? >This system is used in Diesel cars and in central heating installations >mainly to re-heat somewhat the gasoil tank in very cold winters. >In my opinion, too far from a KISS system. >Claude > > Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! Visit our web site at... http://www.bellanca-championclub.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 1999
From: Greg Ferris <ferret(at)forbin.com>
Subject: Upgrading from 912 to 912S
I am curious if any of those on the list who are flying, are pondering upgrading from their standard 912 to the 912S. I would expect that there is more to gain with the HDS model than with the HD. I am building an HD and think that a standard 912 will have plenty of pull for me. I'm considering the possiblity of purchasing a used 912 from someone wanting to upgrade. It would seem that there might be a substantial number of 912's becoming available in the near future. Greg Ferris ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 1999
From: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Upgrading from 912 to 912S
Greg; You are correct. The 912 is quite adequate for the HD. A switch to the HDS later on will up your speed. I retrofitted the HDS wings after 3 years and am now planning on moving up to the 912S. My 912 will be for sale, maybe by next spring. Mike UHS Spinners Greg Ferris wrote: > > I am curious if any of those on the list who are flying, are pondering > upgrading from their standard 912 to the 912S. I would expect that > there is more to gain with the HDS model than with the HD. I am > building an HD and think that a standard 912 will have plenty of pull > for me. I'm considering the possiblity of purchasing a used 912 from > someone wanting to upgrade. It would seem that there might be a > substantial number of 912's becoming available in the near future. > > Greg Ferris > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "barry mayne" <bazmay(at)ozemail.com.au>
Subject: engine selection
Date: Sep 04, 1999
G'day group, Big surprise this week. I thought I would have to wait until early next year to order my choice of engine, but low and behold !! my good lady informed me she has been puting a bit of loot away all year so to "go ahead and order it". You bet I did, in a flash. My choice is the Aussie built Jabiru 3300. They are putting a complete firewall forward kit together for me and the cost works to be around the $12,400 US mark. Delivery is due on Sept 19 except for the cowls which will take a bit longer. They also were able to supply almost all instruments including flight instruments, radios etc. at excellent prices. Getting fairly excited. Barry Mayne HDS Looking like a real plane, only canopy to fit. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Steer <bsteer(at)gwi.net>
Subject: RearZee extention
Date: Sep 03, 1999
Hello, folks. I'm working on the skeleton for the wing of my 601 HD. The drawing on page 6V7 implies that the top flange of the rear Zee extention 6V7-4 is trimmed back to be even with the end of the Zee. I could also see how it might be trimmed back to be flush with the inside face of the riblet, so it doesn't interfere with aileron movement. What have you other 601 builders done in that area? Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 1999
From: Dennis Douglas <ddouglas(at)coastside.net>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Phil... I am building a GlaStar. While I am NOT an A&P, nor am I an expert on these things, I have learned a bit. First of all, get yourself an Aircraft Spruce & Specialties catalog. Go on the web to http://www.aircraft-spruce.com and order a catalog. They'll send it free. Then look at the rivets section. You'll note that there are two main kinds of driven rivets -- the "AD' series and the "A" series. The AD rivets are hard and the A rivets are soft. Unless your plans specifically allow soft rivets ("A"), then use the AD rivets. The AD rivets are MUCH stronger in tensile strength and the thing you simply DON'T want is to have your skin start to peel away because the rivets start to "pop". The other rivets, the pull-type rivets and such should also be specified by the plans. DON'T install a pull rivet simply because it is easier, and don't drive a soft rivet simply because it is easier also. Use the RIGHT rivet for the job. If there are no instructions, get the answer from the plans seller--not from your buddy on the Net--because he might not know any more than you do and you are quite literally putting your life in the hands of the advice-giver.... Dennis Douglas Phil Peck wrote: > > As a beginner,having checked out every archive on rivets and aluminum > suppliers, I have come to the following conclusions: Everybody is > building their 601 &701 projects with all kinds of rivets from every > manufacture or location. And the rivets seem to work fine with no > obvious differences in strengths or safety issues. At this point in > time I seem to be heading in the direction of the designer and his use > of the UK rivets, but that reforming of the head seems to bug me a > little. Any rivet comments on the subject should be e-mail to me > directly as I sense that the zenith list is a little tired of the > subject. Your comments could possably help me to decide on a obviously > important part of the building of my 701. > I am also looking for a Aluminum supply in the California or Oregon area > that has the same great prices that Canada seems to have. So far Zenith > has the best prices on Alu- sheets. > phil > > -- > Check out Crusader Toys @ > http://www.Crusadertoys.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: [c-a] Com/Vor Antena
>>> The COMM antenna must be vertical, while the NAV antenna must be >>> horizontal. > >> Interesting! So what do we do if we want to connect one of the new handheld >> navcomms to an external antenna to use as an emergency backup for BOTH navigating >> and communicating? The new Yaesu has only one antenna connection. > > >The proper solution is two antennas and a switch. > >However, if you're determined to do it with one antenna and are willing to >settle for some loss of signal strength on both NAV and COMM, you could mount >a single antenna on a 45 angle. This is effectively what you get if you mount >one element of the antenna on a vertical surface and one element on a >horizontal surface as John Rippengal suggests. With this setup, you'd probably >pick up NAV signals fore and aft, but have increasing difficulty as they >approached 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock. > >I'd recommend separate antennas if at all possible. While it is true that a vertical comm and horizontal VOR antenna represent optimum performance, you would he hard pressed to "see" it without test equipment. The hand-held VOR/Comm transceivers will work quite satisfactorily on the Comm antenna. Given the limited power output of your hand held comm transmitter and the VERY HEALTHY vor signal strength at cruise altitudes, I'd give weight to the communications performance and use the Comm antenna on your hand held. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < Independence Kansas: the > < Jurassic Park of aviation. > < Your source for brand new > < 40 year old airplanes. > ================================= http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 1999
From: Chuck Deiterich <cfd(at)tstar.net>
Subject: Stab/elevator
701 Builders On drawing 7.H.0 the bottom half shows the exploded view of the stabilizer. Just above the piece marked 7.H.3.3 there looks to be a short "L" and above it another unlabeled piece, I can not find where the "L" or the unlabeled piece are described or how they are installed. Do any of you know what they are? Also they are not included on the shipping list from ZAC. Also on the parts list for the stab and elevator is one length of 7.V.6.3 stock which is also used in the wing (rear rib angles) to attach the rear ribs to the rear channel. I can find no place in the stab/elevator directions for this piece. Anybody have a clue as to what this is for in the tail? Chuck Deiterich ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 1999
Subject: Canopy Riveting
From: "James Ashford" <jashford1(at)earthlink.net>
How did those of you that have finished your canopies handle the riveting the plexiglass in the aluminum sandwich on the canopy side panels? The construction manual leads me to believe to just go ahead and rivet. It seems to me that enlarging the hole in the plexiglass and inserting a short piece of tubing would be better practice. Any thoughts, suggestions would be appreciated-this is my last major task for completion!!!!! Jim Ashford 912 601 HDS N 601Q ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: 701 Stab/elevator
Chuck Deiterich wrote: > On drawing 7.H.0 the bottom half shows the exploded view of the > stabilizer. Just above the piece marked 7.H.3.3 there looks to be a > short "L" and above it another unlabeled piece They simply don't exist. > Also on the parts list for the stab and elevator is one length of > 7.V.6.3 stock which is also used in the wing (rear rib angles) to > attach the rear ribs to the rear channel. I can find no place in the > stab/elevator directions for this piece. 2 pieces of this angle ( L=90mm ) are shown on drawing 7H4-2 to attach the outboard ribs to the elevator spar. I hope you made the rear fuselage before the stab. If not, be careful to have 252mm between the two 7H2-6 front brackets, then remember that you will perhaps have to move 7F1-3 and 7F1-4 a bit forward or backward to make the stab fit the 7F3-4 attachments correctly. I made the fuselage before the stab, and then I discovered that I had to have 244mm between the stab front brackets ! Use the 7.x.0 assembly drawings only to avoid big mistakes, such as installing both wings on the left side of the fuselage . Also be prepared to buy some extra lengths of "L" and "Z" as well as bolts, rivets and some square feet of alum sheets. Claude ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PWalsh8045(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 04, 1999
Subject: Re: Spatk Plugs
What spark plugs may be used in the Rotax 912? I'm doing my second annual inspection, and cant seem to find the number (brand) for the off the shelf automotive replacemant plugs. Thanks Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jtlazear" <jtlazear1(at)excite.com>
Subject: Re: Stab/elevator
Date: Sep 04, 1999
> > 701 Builders > On drawing 7.H.0 the bottom half shows the exploded view of the > stabilizer. Just above the piece marked 7.H.3.3 there looks to be a > short "L" and above it another unlabeled piece, > >I think the short "L" is a short piece of 3/4 X 1/8 inch angle that you cut and use for the elevator stop, at full up deflection. I can't remember what the other piece is but I could check mine and let you know. Tom > > > > > > > Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001)
Date: Sep 04, 1999
Subject: New Email Lists Added to the Matronics Server!!
Dear Listers, In the spirit of the existing and extremely popular Internet Email Lists currently hosted at Matronics such at the RV-List, Zenith-List, and Kolb-List, I have just added a number of new Lists and cordially invite everyone to have a look at the long list of Forums now available. Email Discussion Lists now include the following categories: aerobatic-list aviation-list beech-list cessna-list ez-list glasair-list homebuilt-list kolb-list lancair-list piper-list rocket-list rv-list sailplane-list seaplane-list ultralight-list warbird-list yak-list zenith-list These Lists all include both a real-time distribution as well as a daily "digest" version. All Lists also include archive files that can be searched using the custom designed high speed web search engine. The archives may also be viewed directly using the custom browsing interface. All of these services are brought to you Free of Charge compliments of Matronics, although voluntary contributions are always graciously accepted using a Secure Web Contribution Web Page. I encourage you to surf over and have a look at the Email List Web sites and subscribe to as many of the available Lists as you wish. There is an extremely handy and easy to use web page now for subscribing and unsubscribing to your favorite Forums. Here are a couple of URLs to check out: http://www.matronics.com/other.html Main Email List Web Site http://www.matronics.com/subscribe List Subscription Form http://www.matronics.com/contribution Secure Contribution Site I look forward to seeing you on the Lists and to our future discussions. If you've ever been subscribed to the RV-List or any of the other Lists at Matronics, you already know the quality and "family" atmosphere that is typified by these Lists. Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 1999
From: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Spatk Plugs
The plugs are NGK DCPR7E (3932). Make sure that they have the removable top piece. Mike PWalsh8045(at)aol.com wrote: > > What spark plugs may be used in the Rotax 912? I'm doing my second annual > inspection, and cant seem to find the number (brand) for the off the shelf > automotive replacemant plugs. > Thanks > Pat > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darryl West" <rdwest(at)cadvision.com>
Subject: Re: Spatk Plugs
Date: Sep 04, 1999
Check your engine serial number and operators manual. I believe some older versions of the 912 use different spark plugs than the newer engines. UAP/NAPA carries NGK plugs. Darryl -----Original Message----- From: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca> Date: Saturday, September 04, 1999 9:43 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spatk Plugs > >The plugs are NGK DCPR7E (3932). Make sure that they have the removable top >piece. >Mike > >PWalsh8045(at)aol.com wrote: > >> >> What spark plugs may be used in the Rotax 912? I'm doing my second annual >> inspection, and cant seem to find the number (brand) for the off the shelf >> automotive replacemant plugs. >> Thanks >> Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Antennas
> >Bob, > >Fred Hulen here, off the net. I have purchased one of your manuals, so >maybe you wouldn't mine answering a quick question for me. My plesure sir . . . >I am ready to mount a Comant CI-292-2 (BOTTOM MOUNT type, steeply swept >back Com antenna) on my Zenith 601. I see in the archives that most 601 >builders mount their transponder antenna immediately behind the rear "Z" of >the center wing section (I must assume you are not familiar with the 601, >so the rear Z is the last structural member going from left to right at the >very rear of the center wing section where it attaches to the rear >fuselage.) Anyway... my questions is this: Due to limitations in ground >clearance there is a limit as to how far I can mount the Com antenna toward >the rear away from the transponder antenna, and, in trying to stiffen the >mounting area for the com antenna near on of the "L" crossmembers, the >forward base of the com antenna will be about 23" away from the transponder >antenna. Is this OK? Otherwise I'll have to find a different location for >the transponder antenna. The risk for mounting them closer together is that the transponder transmitter will put little buzzes into the comm receiver every time it replies to a radar interrogation. I would suggest this: Go ahead and mount the comm antenna further forward and see how well it works. If the transponder's interferrence with the comm receiver is small (meaning tollerable) or non-existant, then you're off and running. The worst thing that happens is that you have to find a new, more remote location for the transponder antenna later which is no worse than you are considering right now. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < Independence Kansas: the > < Jurassic Park of aviation. > < Your source for brand new > < 40 year old airplanes. > ================================= http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Inst. lamp dimmers
>I built the dimmer you designed, mentioned in the RV-List, some time ago. >It worked! I played around with an idea I had that would make the >instrument light level vary with ambient light intensity. By using a >photoresitor (RS part), I got the light to dim when the ambient light was >high, ie, daylight. This was the opposite of what I was looking for, so I >wired a 2N2222 transistor across the pot, controlled by the photoresistor. >This worked fairly well, dimming the instrument light as the ambient light >decreased. The pot still operated to trim the light level. I suppose with >more tinkering, I could install a trim pot to vary the response rate of the >photoresitor. Good for you! Autodimming has been with us for awhile. The Cessna 400 series radios and some of the earlier autopilots produced some of industry's first whacks at the problem. I think it was fairly successful . . . you will probably have to tinker with the resistors associated with the photoresistor to set min-max ratios . . . but you can do this on the bench using a wall-dimmer on an overhead bulb to simulate approaching darkness. Turn down ambient lighting down all the way and let your eyes dark adapt for about 5 min . . . bring lighting up until you can just read the panel with no additional lighting . . . this is the light level where panel lighting wants to be "max" . . . then dim room lighting to full dark and adjust the "min" to the right level. . . . doing this on the bench (or in the shop sitting in the cockpit) will get you in the ballpark making it unlikely that further fiddling will be needed later. >This is all just benchtop tinkering....It hasn't been installed in any >cockpit, so the variables of cockpit brightness, photoresistor location, >etc., would have to be worked out. I don't know if you could get ideal >automatic instrument light dimming, but I'm forwarding you this as food for >thought. Of course radios have photo-resistors right on their front panels . . . a bit of a pain in the whatsit since your hand shades the photodetector when you reach for controls . . . just when you most want to see what's going on, the lights on the device dim down! Your notion of finding a suitable photo detector location NOT on the panel is a sound one. Your efforts are a good example of ways amateur builders can provide bells and whistles that spam can drivers can only wish for. . . Let us know how it works out. Better yet, write up an article and share the knowledge. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < Independence Kansas: the > < Jurassic Park of aviation. > < Your source for brand new > < 40 year old airplanes. > ================================= http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sam Cajun" <sam.caj(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Stab/elevator
Date: Sep 05, 1999
> > >> >> 701 Builders >> On drawing 7.H.0 the bottom half shows the exploded view of the >> stabilizer. Just above the piece marked 7.H.3.3 there looks to be a >> short "L" and above it another unlabeled piece, >> >>I think the short "L" is a short piece of 3/4 X 1/8 inch angle that you cut >and use for the elevator stop, at full up deflection. I can't remember what >the other piece is but I could check mine and let you know. > >Tom Tom, as you point out(indicated in the manual on center of page 37) a stop is required, this fails to explain the larger piece. I think this was probably a gusset intended to augment 7H5-4. The unknown upper piece would rivit to the top of 7H2-2 and lie on the top edge of 7H3-3 and be attached to 7H3-3 using the short piece of L. Probably this was later deemed unnecessary, as was 7F13-2-3-4. Respectfully, Sam (tail, rear fus completed) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: Antennas
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > Anyway... my questions is this: Due to limitations in ground > clearance there is a limit as to how far I can mount the Com antenna toward > the rear away from the transponder antenna, and, in trying to stiffen the > mounting area for the com antenna near on of the "L" crossmembers, the > forward base of the com antenna will be about 23" away from the transponder > antenna. Is this OK? Otherwise I'll have to find a different location for > the transponder antenna. Fred, I mounted the XPDR antenna under, and the VHF above the fuselage. Because I saw other guys doing this. I'm too stupid to reinvent the wheel. It works great. Claude ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Steer <bsteer(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Source for cork sheet
Date: Sep 07, 1999
Well, I've looked everywhere *I* can think of for cork sheet and have yet to find it. Can anybody suggest a source for the sheet used to wrap and cushion the fuel tanks? Thanks for any suggestions. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SLF998(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 07, 1999
Subject: Re: Source for cork sheet
If you have a MICHAELS craft store in your area, they have exactly what you are looking for. Steve Freeman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Polstra, Phil" <PPOLSTRA(at)exchange.webmd.net>
Subject: Source for cork sheet
Date: Sep 07, 1999
I bought some at Michael's craft store. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Steer > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 1:26 PM > To: 'zenith list' > Subject: Zenith-List: Source for cork sheet > > > > Well, I've looked everywhere *I* can think of for cork sheet > and have yet to find it. Can anybody suggest a source > for the sheet used to wrap and cushion the fuel tanks? > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > Bill > > > > > ------------- > > ------------- > Zenith-List: > http://www.matronics.com/zenith-list > List > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe > Other Email > Lists: http://www.matronics.com/other > > ------------- > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 1999
From: Greg Ferris <ferret(at)forbin.com>
Subject: Re: Source for cork sheet
I found mine at Parts America (auto parts store). Mine was even fuel resistant which made me feel better about using it (as far as it not crumbling with age). I believe difference with being fuel resistant was that the binding agent was nitrile. Greg F. Bill Steer wrote: > > Well, I've looked everywhere *I* can think of for cork sheet > and have yet to find it. Can anybody suggest a source > for the sheet used to wrap and cushion the fuel tanks? > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 1999
From: "Dennis G. Douglas" <ddouglas(at)coastside.net>
Subject: Re: Source for cork sheet
Bill Steer wrote: > > > Well, I've looked everywhere *I* can think of for cork sheet > and have yet to find it. Can anybody suggest a source > for the sheet used to wrap and cushion the fuel tanks? > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > Bill Bill.. Hardware stores usually carry huge rolls of cork sheet. Also, check out the foam neoprene there... Dennis Douglas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "AYRES, JIMMY L" <JAYRES(at)entergy.com>
Subject: Source for cork sheet
Date: Sep 07, 1999
Got mine at Lowe's building supply. I heard others say Home Depot has it too. Jimmy Ayres 601HDS -----Original Message----- From: Dennis G. Douglas [mailto:ddouglas(at)coastside.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 12:52 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Source for cork sheet Bill Steer wrote: > > > Well, I've looked everywhere *I* can think of for cork sheet > and have yet to find it. Can anybody suggest a source > for the sheet used to wrap and cushion the fuel tanks? > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > Bill Bill.. Hardware stores usually carry huge rolls of cork sheet. Also, check out the foam neoprene there... Dennis Douglas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 1999
From: Chuck Deiterich <cfd(at)tstar.net>
Subject: Re: Source for cork sheet
Sutherland Building Supply also has cork sheets. The auto parts sell sheets of various thickness for gasket material and it is impregnated with some kind of bonding agent. Nick at ZAC said I could use this material and to prime the aluminum with zinc chromate before gluing the cork in place. Chuck "AYRES, JIMMY L" wrote: > > Got mine at Lowe's building supply. I heard others say Home Depot has it > too. > > Jimmy Ayres > 601HDS > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dennis G. Douglas [mailto:ddouglas(at)coastside.net] > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 12:52 PM > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Source for cork sheet > > > > Bill Steer wrote: > > > > > > Well, I've looked everywhere *I* can think of for cork sheet > > and have yet to find it. Can anybody suggest a source > > for the sheet used to wrap and cushion the fuel tanks? > > > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > > > Bill > > Bill.. Hardware stores usually carry huge rolls of cork sheet. Also, > check out the foam neoprene there... > Dennis Douglas > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: cork sheet
Dennis G. Douglas wrote: > Bill.. Hardware stores usually carry huge rolls of cork sheet. Also, > check out the foam neoprene there... Don't use neoprene foam, or you will see your tank, after each landing, slowly disappearing into your fuselage / wing. As it happened to me. Claude ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Newell" <anewell(at)canuck.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy Riveting
Date: Sep 07, 1999
James Don't just drill and rivet, the plexiglass will crack. I found that out on my first rivet! I have had success so far (103 flight hours) with oversized holes and rivets. Inserting a piece of tubing in each hole would be even better I think. Regards, Alan Newell, Calgary, Alberta, Canada CH 601 HDS C-GANL ---------- > From: James Ashford <jashford1(at)earthlink.net> > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy Riveting > Date: September 4, 1999 7:32 AM > > > How did those of you that have finished your canopies handle the riveting > the plexiglass in the aluminum sandwich on the canopy side panels? The > construction manual leads me to believe to just go ahead and rivet. It seems > to me that enlarging the hole in the plexiglass and inserting a short piece > of tubing would be better practice. > > Any thoughts, suggestions would be appreciated-this is my last major task > for completion!!!!! > > Jim Ashford > 912 601 HDS > N 601Q > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 1999
From: Mark Wood <mawood(at)zoo.uvm.edu>
Subject: Re: cork sheet
>Don't use neoprene foam, or you will see your tank, after each landing, >slowly disappearing into your fuselage / wing. >As it happened to me. >Claude Claude and others Could you expand on this a little? Is it just the compression of the material you had problems with or is there more to it? I am using a 1/8 inch dense neoprene sheet, not wet suit material, in place of the cork. Do you see any problem with this? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 1999
From: Leo Gates <leogates(at)tooeasy.net>
Subject: Re: Source for cork sheet
Bill Steer wrote: > > > Well, I've looked everywhere *I* can think of for cork sheet > and have yet to find it. Can anybody suggest a source > for the sheet used to wrap and cushion the fuel tanks? > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > Bill > I live in the San Antonio Texas area. I could find no local supply of cork sheet - Hadware sotores craft shops etc. I ordered my 1/8th and 1/4 inch cork sheet from Pacific States Felt & Mfg Co Inc. Hayward, CA, 1-800-854-6786. Their min, as I recall, was $80 so I also ordered some sheet rubber (like in scuba suits) to use as insulation in the cabin are. Leo Gates CH601 HDS - N301LG Building: Horiz. Stab. Elevator, Rudder and Rt. Wing - Done ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 1999
From: Don Berridge <berridge(at)cis.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy Riveting
Alan What diameter oversize holes and/or rivets did you use on your canopy? Don Berridge Ch 601 HDS Alan Newell wrote: > > James > Don't just drill and rivet, the plexiglass will crack. I found that out on > my first rivet! I have had success so far (103 flight hours) with > oversized holes and rivets. Inserting a piece of tubing in each hole would > be even better I think. > > Regards, > Alan Newell, Calgary, Alberta, Canada > CH 601 HDS C-GANL > > ---------- > > From: James Ashford <jashford1(at)earthlink.net> > > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy Riveting > > Date: September 4, 1999 7:32 AM > > > > > > > How did those of you that have finished your canopies handle the riveting > > the plexiglass in the aluminum sandwich on the canopy side panels? The > > construction manual leads me to believe to just go ahead and rivet. It > seems > > to me that enlarging the hole in the plexiglass and inserting a short > piece > > of tubing would be better practice. > > > > Any thoughts, suggestions would be appreciated-this is my last major task > > for completion!!!!! > > > > Jim Ashford > > 912 601 HDS > > N 601Q > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: cork sheet
Mark Wood wrote: > > >Don't use neoprene foam, or you will see your tank, after each landing, > >slowly disappearing into your fuselage / wing. > Could you expand on this a little? Is it just the compression of the > material you had problems with or is there more to it? Compression. I used 2mm (.08 inch) soft neoprene (like wet suit) for noise reduction all inside the fuselage in my CH701, which is know to be a good flying drum. I had checked that neoprene does not dissolve in fuel. (I must also say it's a good combustible). Since I bought a full 60 ft x 6ft roll, I thought to use several layers of it to baby my wing tanks : on the top and on the sides. On bottom I thought I was wrong and I put cork. It worked great, nothing moved at all. My error was to glue 6 layers of this stuff on the strips that hang the front tank : after one week I could not reach the cap which had disappeared into the fuselage. One evening I put 6 layers of neoprene under a table leg, the next morning you bet it had got way thinner. But never came back.... > I am using a 1/8 inch dense neoprene sheet, not wet suit material, in > place of the cork. Do you see any problem with this? Try to burn neoprene. Try to burn a cork. Do the table leg compression test with both. Then you decide. Claude ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Help GSC prop
I mounted a 68" tri-blade GSC prop on my CH701-912. I fine-tuned the pitch at 13.5 deg +- .2 deg with a laser. Someone on this list sent me pictures of a home-made balancer (thanks again to him) : I balanced it with varnish spray so it can't be better. I checked the bolts torque to be exactly what GSC requested, re-checked it after 5 and 10 hours, as well as the pitch (nothing had changed). To make this long story short, I'm the best having the best prop. In the world (to be modest).... The thing is I'm getting everyday less confident. Yesterday a friend took my bird three times to fly a pattern. It's a mountain airfield with no highway, where we are disturbed only by the noise of the flight of some ravens or eagles (and our noisy machines). I could hear from the ground a rumble of low frequency, something like 6 hertz during the whole pattern. Other flight, other noise, always about the same frequency. Another fact is that under a certain speed, the reductor makes horrible noise. At 0 hours, it was under 2000 rpm, now at 20 hours, it's under 2800. Apart from that, the prop is OK for climb and top speed. Any idea before I throw this prop into the fireplace and buy a carbon one ? Is this prop (bought with the kit) the worst in the world, as some posts said ? The prop and engine are new. Thanks Claude ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: 912 carb
The 912 comes with a spring on each carb which makes the engine go full throttle in the event the throttle control would break. I suppressed these 2 springs which allowed me to soften the Heintz nylon friction bearings. Any inconvenient to do this ? Thanks Claude ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 1999
From: Chuck Deiterich <cfd(at)tstar.net>
Subject: Re: Source for cork sheet
NAPA (auto parts) in Texas sells cork gasket material, and they will usually order it if it's not in stock. Chuck Leo Gates wrote: > > Bill Steer wrote: > > > > > > Well, I've looked everywhere *I* can think of for cork sheet > > and have yet to find it. Can anybody suggest a source > > for the sheet used to wrap and cushion the fuel tanks? > > > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > > > Bill > > > I live in the San Antonio Texas area. I could find no local supply of > cork sheet - Hadware sotores craft shops etc. I ordered my 1/8th and > 1/4 inch cork sheet from Pacific States Felt & Mfg Co Inc. Hayward, CA, > 1-800-854-6786. > > Their min, as I recall, was $80 so I also ordered some sheet rubber > (like in scuba suits) to use as insulation in the cabin are. > > Leo Gates > CH601 HDS - N301LG > Building: Horiz. Stab. Elevator, Rudder and Rt. Wing - Done > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Melanie @ Thilo Kind" <m_tkind(at)sprynet.com>
Subject: Seats
Date: Sep 08, 1999
Hi everybody, question: how do you come up with seats for the airplane? I'm especially interested in the seat bottom. Do you use plywood with foam (like with the seat back)? Thanks Thilo Kind 601 HDS w. Rotax 912 - it looks like an airplane now ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SkyKingN(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 08, 1999
Subject: Re: Source for cork sheet
Bill, try Home Depot or any hardware store, they can order it from a supplier for you, it comes in large sheets and also adhesive backed to make it easier to install. I bought four sheets of various thicknesses, got them from true value hardware, from one of their distributors. Hope this helps ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 1999
From: Rich <rich(at)carol.net>
Subject: Re: cork sheet
> for noise reduction all inside the fuselage in my CH701, which is know to be > a good flying drum. At our EAA chapter someone brought in a sample of sound deadening foil with adhesive on one side attached to a piece of sheet aluminum. To test it, it said to drop the 3" x 5" piece of sheet aluminum without the foil. Then drop the piece with the foil. The piece with the foil must have been 50% more quiet and was only covering about 50% of the alum sheet. Amazing stuff. I think it was either G.E. or Dupont. Not sure. It's a lot lighter than neoprene, non combustible and only about .010" to .015" thick. I think the same can be done with double sided tape & ordinary household aluminum foil. I haven't tried it yet. Rich ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 1999
From: Darla Golin <darlajean(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: 912 carb
> >The 912 comes with a spring on each carb which makes the engine go >full throttle in the event the throttle control would break. > >I suppressed these 2 springs which allowed me to soften the Heintz >nylon friction bearings. > >Any inconvenient to do this ? >Thanks >Claude > Hi Claude, ` I don't think it's a good idea to mess with those carb springs. While it's true the springs will pull the engine to full throttle in the event of a cable break, I believe thier main function is to allow the slides in the carbs to open at an even rate ensuring the carbs are balanced during throttle changes. If the carbs aren't balanced, the engine will not run smoothly at all. I'm in the process of balancing my carbs now, and a very small change in tension of either of the throttle cables will cause the engine to run roughly. Cheers, Mike Slaughter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Tannock" <James.Tannock(at)nottingham.ac.uk>
Date: Sep 09, 1999
Subject: Re: 912 carb
Claude wrote: > The 912 comes with a spring on each carb which makes the engine go > full throttle in the event the throttle control would break. > > I suppressed these 2 springs which allowed me to soften the Heintz > nylon friction bearings. I think this is just a traditional aircraft practice. If a throttle linkage becomes detached the carb goes to full throttle, you have more power rather than less, so you don't have to 'go to the cows' (how exactly do you say that in French, Claude?). You fly to an airfield, cut the engine with the ignition and glide in for a perfect landing. IMHO its worth the trouble of making up a decent throttle friction system and anyway I'm sure my inspector wouldn't let me change it! James James Tannock Nottingham England 601HD Nearly ready to go to the field ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Tannock" <James.Tannock(at)nottingham.ac.uk>
Date: Sep 09, 1999
Subject: Re: Help GSC prop
Claude Many people are using the GSC, certainly on the 601, with good results, even without super accurate blade pitching. I have never heard a strange noise such as you describe from various 601s flying with 912 and GSC. No doubt you are carefully checking your prop for damage, tracking, etc. Perhaps you are experiencing a 'beat' phenomenom like when multi-engine aircraft have engines running very close to the same speed. There could be an interference effect created between the air vibrations produced by each blade. You can see in some single fan applications (i.e car cooling fans) asymetric blade placement to avoid such effects. You might try changing the angle of one blade very slightly. Perhaps your blade pitching is too good? The 912 gearbox is a nasty noisy thing but it should only rattle when not under load. James Tannock Nottingham England 601HD Nearly ready to go to the field ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Bucher" <tongarra(at)tpgi.com.au>
Subject: Re: Help GSC prop
Date: Sep 09, 1999
Hi Claude This resonance or rumbling, are you positive it originates from the prop? or could it be it is oil-canning of the fuse or wing? Are your your wing struts vibrating? What type of your engine mounts are you using? I would be surprised if your prop is the culprit ( balanced and accurately pitched ) Joe, CH 701, 00003hr on the log ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Schemmel, Grant" <Schemmel(at)utmc.utc.com>
Subject: O-200 Nose Bowl
Date: Sep 09, 1999
Hi Ken I'm finally getting to the point of wiring up my o-200, and am seriously considering doing the generator/alternator conversion too. I remembered you had mentioned something about doing this, so went back through my saved list messages and found this one. So, I guess I have a couple of questions before I jump into it. Did you shop around before you found this place, and was the alternator a 14v one? I got a quote from Wentworth, and those bandits want $295 for one. How did the conversion go, did all of the drive pieces from the generator fit well? And last of all, if you could email a copy of your hookup diagram, I would appreciate it. I would also like to know which regulator you used too. Thanks a bunch. Grant Schemmel Penrose, CO 601HDS - finishing left outboard wing panel, wiring engine and contemplating rebuilding engine mount (sigh) -----Original Message----- From: kjl33u(at)ezy.net [SMTP:kjl33u(at)ezy.net] Sent: Saturday, February 20, 1999 5:25 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: O-200 Nose Bowl Bert, My c-85 weighed 207lbs with a 20amp generator, I removed the generator and installed a O-200 alternator. It is basically a ford alternator and you can use a late model electronic ford voltage about $15.00 and a harness plug $2.00. MY engine weight is now 210lbs. The cost of a used alternator is $125.00 from Jenkins junk yard in Dover Delaware his phone # 302-697-7743, he will UPS it to you. If you need the hook up diagram e-mail me and I will send it to you ----- Aircraft ----- Zenith-List: http://www.matronics.com/zenith-list http://www.matronics.com/contribution ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 1999
From: Tom Decker <tdecker(at)pronetisp.net>
Subject: 601 HDS F/S
Well I hate to do it but it looks like I'll need to sell my 601 HDS , I just plain need more room . The outboard wings with 7.5 gal LE tanks need the front tip finished and the baggage locker covers made . The tail section is done and the fuselage is ready to be attached to the center section , all the holes are drilled and it's ready to rivet . Nothing above the longerons has been made yet . It's set up as a tail dragger . This was built from the drawings and is near Binghamtom NY . I'm asking $7500.00 Call or email for information 607-775-1969 ......Tom Decker EAA TC # 3942 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 1999
From: Dan Knezacek <dknezace(at)bconnex.net>
Subject: Re: Seats
Hi Thilo, I used Temperfoam for my seat bottoms and had it shaped to the shape of the aluminum seat bottom (sort of a sling) and upholstered with A/C fire resistant material. I just held it in place with velcro strips. some people use a piece of regular foam, but in case of an accident the Temperfoam will protect your spine. A friend of mine used Obus Forme back supports and seat bottoms. It looks good and was easy to fabricate. If you do use temperfoam I'd recommend using one or two layers. I used the standard three layers and had to raise my canopy so I don't bump my head. However I do feel safer as a result, and it's very comfortable. Dan Knezacek 601 HD > >Hi everybody, > >question: how do you come up with seats for the airplane? I'm especially >interested in the seat bottom. Do you use plywood with foam (like with the >seat back)? > >Thanks > >Thilo Kind >601 HDS w. Rotax 912 - it looks like an airplane now > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: 912 carb
James Tannock wrote: > > I suppressed these 2 springs which allowed me to soften the Heintz > > nylon friction bearings. > If a throttle > linkage becomes detached the carb goes to full throttle, you have > more power rather than less, so you don't have to 'go to the cows' > (how exactly do you say that in French, Claude?). "Aller aux vaches". Word for word translation, see, James, must come from England :-) We say also "go to wallow", "aller se vautrer" (must come from France). > IMHO its worth the trouble of making up a decent throttle > friction system and anyway I'm sure my inspector wouldn't let me > change it! You're right, (BTW, change your inspector). Just kidding, but we have no inspection on this side of the Channel, hence no advice : Heintz sketch or whatever you want, good or bad. Mike Slaughter wrote : > I believe thier main function is to allow the > slides in the carbs to open at an even rate ensuring the carbs are balanced > during throttle changes. If the carbs aren't balanced, the engine will not > run smoothly at all. I mounted the left and right controls from the cabin to the throttle bellcrank as per Heintz plans. But I found the cables system complicated and I re-welded the bellcrank in order to go from this bellcrank directly to each carb with a 3/16 rod bent at both ends which goes directly into the hole where the wire stop was. You bet I got trouble for balancing the carbs : I had to thread these rods with a left and a right thread and install a kind of small turnbuckle on each one. I can sleep in flight, the control will not break !!! That's why I removed the throttle valve spring. But I'm sure that because of this rigid control and the engine vibrations, the carb throttle valves could be subject to a permanent stress. I will borrow a strobe light to check that point (yes, on ground, thanks). No car engine has a rigid control, there must be a good reason.... If it is the case, I'll come back to Heintz design. > I'm in the process of balancing my carbs now, and a very small > change in tension of either of the throttle cables will cause the engine to > run roughly. I noticed that. When will they invent a single carb 912 ??? Claude ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: Help GSC prop
James Tannock wrote: > Many people are using the GSC, certainly on the 601, with good > results, even without super accurate blade pitching. > (snip) > Perhaps you are experiencing a 'beat' phenomenom like when > multi-engine aircraft have engines running very close to the same > speed. Joe Bucher wrote: > I would be surprised if your prop is the culprit ( balanced and accurately pitched ) Thanks James and Joe for your advices. You're right, the prop can't be the source of such a low freq rumble (or the laws of physics are not valid above my airfield...). Better to think of something else. BTW if I wanted a silent aircraft, the 701 was not the best choice... I'll investigate it (yes, even if I must borrow a spectrum analyzer... I know I'm crazy), and I will keep you informed. I must confess that some posts I read about GSC prop disturbed me a bit, but I must say also that my 701 climbs and flies perfect, and when I look at the prop at a certain angle in the sunshine, I admit that it can't run smoother. > Joe, CH 701, 00003hr on the log You can't have done 3hr ground test tied to your car... so it flies !! > James, Nearly ready to go to the field Your next best moments : 1. driving with the trailer 2. after the first landing, wowww !! (you'll have to tell that). Claude 00021hr of pattern. Tomorrow, first 300 miles trip with 590 lbs of AC plus 2 x 200 lbs of meat and 3 tanks full. Saint Rotax pray for us. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Melanie @ Thilo Kind" <m_tkind(at)sprynet.com>
Subject: RE: Zodiac Seats
Date: Sep 09, 1999
Hi Dan and Brent, thanks for the input in regards to the seats. Brent, I also can sit for hours in the seat panel of my plane, move the stick back and for and make airplane noises (my wife thinks I'm nuts - she is probably right...). Anyway, one more question: how do you attach the fabrik to the bottom of the seat? Thilo Kind > -----Original Message----- > From: Brenton E. Battles [mailto:brentbattles(at)pipeline.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 2:01 PM > To: m_tkind(at)sprynet.com > Subject: Zodiac Seats > > > Hi Thilo, > > Saw your question on seats and thought I'd share what I've > done. I went to > the local foam & fabric store and bought some very dense 1" foam, some > medium density foam of about 1-3/4" thickness, and some 5" diameter > cylinders of medium to soft foam. And then I just started > cutting . . .no > CAD drawing, no sketch, nothing. I used a tilt head band saw > which worked > perfectly. My seats are absolutely fantastic! I've been > doing a bunch of > cockpit wiring involving a harness running under the armrest > with leads > from two MAC stick grips which have 2-axis trim and PTT on > the pilot's side > and PTT alone on the passenger side. My point is that I've > spent several > hours at a time in these seats and don't want to get out of > the airplane. > > The bottom layer (#1)is the high-density stuff and runs from > a beveled-flat- > to-the-top-of-the-wing-spar edge around to a point about two > inches above > the wing top skin at the back. At this point I tapered the piece to a > sharp edge 5" above the wing skin. I then tapered the front > and rear edges > of an 8" piece of the same high-density foam (piece #2) and > placed this > with shorter face downwards on top of the first piece and > located right at > the bottom of the seat pan. I then laid on a piece of the > medium density > foam (#3) extending from the wing spar bevel line to a point > 2" above the > wing skin at the back. I then cut a cylinder in half for a > lumbar support > (#4) and cut the bottom to match the aft end of the medium > density foam > piece (#3). This left gaps between the high and medium > density foam pieces > forward and aft of the beveled ends of piece #2 which I > filled with strips > beveled to fill the gap. The long faces (visible from above) > are 3" in > front and 2" in back. Fitting the seat will require notching > front and > back outboard edges to fit under the wing skin. > > I made a single piece back frame from oak veneer plywood (5/16" or > therebouts) which rests in place on two L angle pieces I > attached to the > back to fit on top of the 6V12-5 seat back channel. The angles are > attached with small countersunk bolts. I then attached some > of the same > medium density foam on the back rest to but up against the > lumbar support > cylinder. At the top I attached another half cylinder for a > head rest on > each side. The tops of the seats are tapered inwards from > each side 45 > through the thickness of the headrest cylinder. > > Everything is attached with 3M Foam Fast 74 which works great > and will be > used to attach the upholstery fabric. Surprisingly, with a > couple of tucks > you can make the fabric conform to all seat surfaces > including the beveled > headrest sides. The beveled headrest conforms to the outline > of the canopy > while allowing a smooth path for the shoulder harness. I'm > really jazzed > about how the seats came out!! Can't wait to put the fabric on!! > > FYI, I have my radio console completely installed (minus > radios and panel - > my next step) and it is rock solid. I cut a rounded notch at > the spar end > of the console cover to accept a vinyl tube containing my > tail/wing/stick > grip wiring which runs forward and up the console "L" to the > panel. I'll > mount a rocker switch on the "L" to control my baggage > bulkhead circulation > fan. > > BTW, all antennas are in as is the ELT. Baggage shelf and > rear bulkhead > are carpeted with auto headliner to follow for the inside of > the baggage > area top skin. > > Hope some of this helps! > > Adios for now, > Brent > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 1999
From: Chuck Deiterich <cfd(at)tstar.net>
Subject: Power Requirements
Folks, Does anyone have the current requirements (amperage) for the following equipment operating on 12 volts: electric turn and bank, tach, temp guages, fuel guages, radios (COM/GPS) are about 1.1 amp listen to 6 amps transmit, dual flash strobes are about 2.3 amps, nav lites about 1 to 1.5 amps each, Hobbs meter, etc. Chuck Deiterich 701 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Main battery cable size
>What size wire are people using for the main battery cable. I gotta >get mine. Richard says his (#2) cable sometimes doesn't seem to >"carry the load." For airplanes where the battery is on or just behind the firewall, 4AWG is fine for all the "fat" wires. If the battery has to be further away, like on the other end of the airplane from the engine, #2 is better. I have dozens of Ez builders who have run 2 strands of #2 full length of the airplane to crank an O-320. 4AWG is about .00025 ohms per foot. A 24 foot round trip in an Ez is .006 ohms. A 200 amp cranking current will drop 1.2 volts or about 12 to 15% of your total cranking energy. 2AWG drops to .004 ohms total for a voltage drop of 0.8 volts in the wire. Of course each terminal joint and set of contactor contacts will ADD to this resistance but our experience has shown good performance for even the long circuits just cited when 2AWG is used. If someone is having difficulties with a 2AWG wired starter, I strongly suspect a combination of tired battery, high resistance joints or high resistance contactors are the major contributors to the problem. Some measurements with a voltmeter while loading the system with an automotive load-type battery tester will quickly isolate the causes. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < Independence Kansas: the > < Jurassic Park of aviation. > < Your source for brand new > < 40 year old airplanes. > ================================= http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Bucher" <tongarra(at)tpgi.com.au>
Subject: Re: Help GSC prop
Date: Sep 10, 1999
> You can't have done 3hr ground test tied to your car... so it flies !! Yes and very nicely at that by the way what is your actual STOL and your top speed? Regarding the rumbling I've had to tension my fuse side panels and add another diagonal brace to stabilise the struts ( non faired struts ). Tail winds, you need them with the 701 Joe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 1999
From: Fred Hulen <fhulen(at)gabs.net>
Subject: Attaching Fiberglass Saddle
Tips Please. In securing the rear fiberglass saddle to the rear edge of the fuselage top skin, how did those of you handle the fact that the screws are going down against a pretty curved surface? If you don't crush into the metal, there will be "edges" sticking up on the screw, and contact only in the middle? Also, it would seem that we need a locking nuts on the bottom side, underneath the fiberglass. How did you secure the locking nuts to the fiberglass? Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 1999
From: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Attaching Fiberglass Saddle
Fred; I used rivnuts on the fiberglass. Mike Fred Hulen wrote: > > Tips Please. In securing the rear fiberglass saddle to the rear edge of > the fuselage top skin, how did those of you handle the fact that the screws > are going down against a pretty curved surface? If you don't crush into > the metal, there will be "edges" sticking up on the screw, and contact only > in the middle? Also, it would seem that we need a locking nuts on the > bottom side, underneath the fiberglass. How did you secure the locking > nuts to the fiberglass? Fred > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Schemmel, Grant" <Schemmel(at)utmc.utc.com>
Subject: Attaching Fiberglass Saddle
Date: Sep 10, 1999
Fred My solution was to put nut plates underneath the fiberglass (5 or 6 I think), and use #8 screws through the skin and into the nut plates. I then put a couple more on each side where my bracket the h-stab is. This lets me take the saddle off for inspections/maint., and it looks good too. Grant Schemmel Penrose, CO 601hds trigear -----Original Message----- From: Fred Hulen [SMTP:fhulen(at)gabs.net] Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 3:58 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Attaching Fiberglass Saddle Tips Please. In securing the rear fiberglass saddle to the rear edge of the fuselage top skin, how did those of you handle the fact that the screws are going down against a pretty curved surface? If you don't crush into the metal, there will be "edges" sticking up on the screw, and contact only in the middle? Also, it would seem that we need a locking nuts on the bottom side, underneath the fiberglass. How did you secure the locking nuts to the fiberglass? Fred ----- Aircraft ----- Zenith-List: http://www.matronics.com/zenith-list http://www.matronics.com/contribution ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 1999
From: billn(at)ppiteam.com (PPITEAM)
Subject: Re: Attaching Fiberglass Saddle
> > >Tips Please. In securing the rear fiberglass saddle to the rear edge of >the fuselage top skin, how did those of you handle the fact that the screws >are going down against a pretty curved surface? If you don't crush into >the metal, there will be "edges" sticking up on the screw, and contact only >in the middle? Also, it would seem that we need a locking nuts on the >bottom side, underneath the fiberglass. How did you secure the locking >nuts to the fiberglass? Fred Fred, I used nut plates on the inside and pan head ss screws. They fit up nicely and match the other screws that I have on exterior surfaces that show. I actually added an aluminum strip to the fiberglass saddle, so the top of the saddle is at the same level as the fuselage top. The added strip lays on top of both. I does cause a step from fore to aft, but with .016 stock it is barely noticeable. Zodiac 601HDS S/N 3556 Bill Nichelson Bellefontaine, Oh bn2(at)bright.net or billn(at)ppiteam.com 3300 Jabiru engine installed, wiring panel. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net>
Subject: Re: Attaching Fiberglass Saddle
Date: Sep 10, 1999
>Tips Please. In securing the rear fiberglass saddle to the rear edge of >the fuselage top skin Fred, I used #10 "T" nuts mounted upside down on the bottom of the fiberglass. I secured them to the fiberglass with some glass cloth and resin. I use #10 stainless pan head screws through the skin to secure the saddle. I may change to truss head screws that have a flatter head profile. Even though the "T" nuts are not self locking, I don't think the screws will come lose. I may add a bit of locktite just to be sure. Regards, Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 1999
From: Fred Hulen <fhulen(at)gabs.net>
Subject: Re: Attaching Fiberglass Saddle
>the "T" nuts are not self locking, I don't think the screws will come lose. >I may add a bit of locktite just to be sure. > >Regards, >Bill +++ I figured you would respond, and I remembered what you had said about the "T-nuts". Knowing that it would be "bad news" to have the saddle come loose in flight and jam the elevator or rudder, I thought that lock nuts might be needed. But... putting locktite on after each inspection would probably do too. Not sure if I told you, but I decided on the Jabiru 3300, and sent in a deposit to reserve the price which is changing this quarter. Thanks for the reply. Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
From: UNCRT(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 10, 1999
Subject: 701 stuff
Well, we've decided on the 701. Should place the order by the end of next week. Have some questions: 1. What size work table do I need? Is a 4 x 14 necessary or, for a 701, will a 4 x 12 work? 2. I am going to mount a radio (COM? ) while building. What are your thoughts on a GPS/COM? What can you tell me about antennas and a lessor expensive (read cheap) GPS/COM? 3. We plan on ordering everything from Zenith.....instrument pkg.....firewall forward pkg......912.....strobes......folding wing.....what are your thoughts on this plan? i.e. can I do better buying the instruments separately? 4. I plan on using this bird in acquiring my private. Anyone see any problems with that? Any suggestions? Thanks guys uncrt(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Newell" <anewell(at)canuck.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy Riveting
Date: Sep 11, 1999
Don: I used A4 rivets in (I think) 5/32" holes, its amazing how many construction details I've forgotten in 18 months. If you do use tubing in the hole I'd go to a larger hole. I've found model aircraft fuel tubing good in these kinds of applications. I used it for the canopy to canopy frame mounting screws. Regards, Alan Newell, Calgary, Alberta, Canada ---------- > From: Don Berridge <berridge(at)cis.net> > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy Riveting > Date: September 8, 1999 10:25 AM > > > Alan > What diameter oversize holes and/or rivets did you use on your canopy? > > Don Berridge > Ch 601 HDS > > Alan Newell wrote: > > > > > James > > Don't just drill and rivet, the plexiglass will crack. I found that out on > > my first rivet! I have had success so far (103 flight hours) with > > oversized holes and rivets. Inserting a piece of tubing in each hole would > > be even better I think. > > > > Regards, > > Alan Newell, Calgary, Alberta, Canada > > CH 601 HDS C-GANL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Newell" <anewell(at)canuck.com>
Subject: Re: Seats
Date: Sep 11, 1999
I used seat cushions sold for garden chairs. They were just the right size and cheap too!. I have spent over 9 hours in the cockpit in one day and not been uncomfortable. Regards, Alan Newell, Calgary, Alberta, Canada ---------- > From: Melanie @ Thilo Kind <m_tkind(at)sprynet.com> > To: 'Zenith List' > Subject: Zenith-List: Seats > Date: September 8, 1999 5:55 PM > > > Hi everybody, > > question: how do you come up with seats for the airplane? I'm especially > interested in the seat bottom. Do you use plywood with foam (like with the > seat back)? > > Thanks > > Thilo Kind > 601 HDS w. Rotax 912 - it looks like an airplane now > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Coax Cable
>Can you tell me the difference between RG142 and RG400 >cable except that one has solid center conductor and the >other stranded. Their electrical performance seems to >be the same, and their physical dimensions also seem >equivalent but I was wondering if the RG400 might be >more flexible and have a smaller bend radius. That >might be an advantage when threading through the >airframe, but it might have other disadvatages! Since >both cables are fairly pricy, I don't want to buy the >wrong cable! > >Thanks again for you helpful advice, > >Will Chorley > >PS. Do you sell the fiberglass isulation material for >fuseable link construction, it doesn't seem to be listed >on your Web pages? Why use either of these cables? The good ol' RG-58 has been used with great success for about a half century. The reason the BIG guys (al la 747, DC-10 etc) use this kind of cable is that their coax runs can be quite long . . sometimes. In a single engine a/c the longest run is generally to a VOR antenna on tail (perhaps 20'). Losses in RG-58 at 110 MHz are about 1.2 dB per 100' (3db is loss of 1/2 the power). A 10' chunk of RG-58 looses .12 dB and a 20' chunk is .24 dB . . . not worth worrying about. Transponders at 1000 mHz will loose 18-22 dB per 100 feet or 2.2 dB for 10' and 1.1 dB for 5 foot. Here, it's obviously more critical but even when you go to a twice diameter, lower loss coax like RG-8 or RG-214, the looses only go down by about half. The modern RG cables like 400 and 142 are still small diameter cables and have losses comparable to RG-58. They ARE made from Teflons, et. als. which increases their resistance to temperature effects but give the very long history of RG-58 and RG-8 in airplanes, I'd suggest that the time and effort to upgrade your small airplane's coax cables isn't going to produce any perceivable value in return. Another thing to consider for bigger cables are connectors. The larger (.35 to .4" diameter) cables take special connectors. I've seen a number of installations where a builder used straight coax connectors on his fat coax than added right angle adapters at each end for installation. The losses in the adapters may have increased his total system losses by as much as he saved by not using smaller RG-58 with the proper right angle connectors. Bottom line is that much is said and recommended with respect to "modernizing" one's anteanna feedlines in amateur built airplanes. My recommendation is to save the time and dollars for things that will make a difference. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < Independence Kansas: the > < Jurassic Park of aviation. > < Your source for brand new > < 40 year old airplanes. > ================================= http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net>
Subject: Control Cable
Date: Sep 11, 1999
For some unknown reason, I was under the impression that the kit came with 1/8" stainless control cable!! Well, today I was going to start making cables and found that ZAC supplies 1/8" 7 x 7 galvanized cable. What is the consensus on using stainless versus galvanized. Less chance for corrosion obviously but is that really a problem on the CH601? Trying to decide if I should use the galvanized or spend $50.00 and go with stainless?? Any comments would be appreciated. Regards, Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Alternator/Battery issues . . .
>OK, A&P's and EE's, jump in here and correct my thinking. This could be the >case if you were talking about a car, but I'm not 100% sure about alt's in >aircraft. Automobile alt's have diodes in them, that when they go bad will >allow a battery to completely discharge back through the alternator. When the diodes in an alternator go "bad" they either open (do nothing) or short (lots of smoke) . . . actually, you have to fail a minimum of two of the six to eight diodes in an alternator to effect the reverse feed of energy from battery back into alternator and it will not be any whimpy current flow . . . we're talking HUNDREDS of amps. This is why your b-lead on the alternator has a circuit breaker or fuse in it . . . >. . . . . When >this happens, depending on how long the battery as sat (or discharged), you >may never get it to come back to life with just a battery charger. First, alternator diode failure is a VERY rare event. This is one of the reasons why I've recommended firewall mounted fuses in the alternator b-lead for homebuilts . . . if the fuse is properly sized to eliminate nuisance trips, then most likely it will NEVER trip for the lifetime of the airplane. > . . . To keep >things simple, think of batteries as having a "memory". When they lose it, >through complete discharge, they don't know which side is positive and which >is negative (and can't be recharged until pos and neg are established). One >way to overcome this (sometimes) is by simply hooking another battery to the >dead one, to reestablish neg and pos sides. Once this is done, the battery >"may" be able to be fully charged with a charger. Alternators can also be >checked to see if the diodes are bad. Again, whether or not this applies to >aircraft type or not...I don't know. The MEMORY effect alluded to was first improperly applied to liquid Ni-Cads used mostly in BIG airplanes. I could cite about a half dozen articles that appeared in various electronics journals over the past 15 years debunking the memory theory but suffice it to say here that "memory" doesn't happen in other batteries . . . and especially in lead acid ones. Lead acid batteries have a shelf life . . . meaning that once a battery has acquired a certain age, it's capacity has degraded to a non-useful level. The RATE at which a battery degrades to useless is a function of state of charge and where in the life cycle the battery presently resides. For example, a 3 year old battery that's down to 40% of capacity already may loose half of that by sitting in a totally dischaged for a week and become NON-recoverable. While a brand new battery can take that 20% whack and still appear to have "recovered" . . . . It's true that a totally discharged battery can be charged up reversed with some apparent capacity of a reverse polarity but it doesn't take another battery to properly "polarize" a totally discharged battery . . . just hook your charger to it in the normal manner and say a few kind words over it, . . and hope you get back some utility for having done so. If you have bad diodes in an alternator that are at risk of discharging the battery, you're going to know it in a hurry. If you have open diodes, you may NOT know it. I bought a used car a few years back with a crippled alternator. The car seemed to have a pretty noisy bus and I filtered the +14V lead going into my ham rig to control the noise. It wasn't until I got the a/c fixed and had the blower running on HI along with headlights at night that I discovered the alternator's output was insufficient to keep the battery charged. I must have driven the car six months or more with a funky alternator. If you have a 60 amp alternator and fly only day/vfr, you might fly for years with a half dead alternator and not know it. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < Independence Kansas: the > < Jurassic Park of aviation. > < Your source for brand new > < 40 year old airplanes. > ================================= http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 1999
From: Dan Knezacek <dknezace(at)bconnex.net>
Subject: Re: Control Cable
A few years ago, before I built my cables, I was at a Zenair fly-in in Midland. While there I saw a beautiful CH-200/250. While examining the airplane I was shocked to find the rudder cables were totaly rust covered. It was at that moment that I decided to use stainless. The breaking strength of stainless (if memory serves me) is around 1700 lbs versus 2000 for the galvanised. When it was that rusty I'd say the stainless was likely much stronger. Dan Knezacek 601 HD > >For some unknown reason, I was under the impression that the kit came with >1/8" stainless control cable!! > >Well, today I was going to start making cables and found that ZAC supplies >1/8" 7 x 7 galvanized cable. > >What is the consensus on using stainless versus galvanized. Less chance for >corrosion obviously but is that really a problem on the CH601? > >Trying to decide if I should use the galvanized or spend $50.00 and go with >stainless?? > >Any comments would be appreciated. > >Regards, >Bill > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: UNCRT(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 11, 1999
Subject: 701 stuff
Gentlemen, for ye that were going to share some information and hopefully some advice about my upcoming 701 adventure........never mind. I had several good discussions with some tech advisors, A&P guys and a bunch of the best old farts in the country today at my EAA chapter meeting. With their help in the firewall forward area, it's going to be much more affordable than I had figured to hatch an 801. So be it. Hope to get the order in this week. So Steve, how big of a table did you use to build your wings? Thanks, Rog ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: 701 "rumble"
Chris Boultinghouse wrote: > How is your radiator mounted? If external, could the low frequency > noise be the rumble of air through the radiator and along the fuselage? Chris. The water and oil rads are within the cowl. > I really cannot think of anything else that would sound as you > describe. > Neither I could until yesterday when, by chance I found it. I was doing patterns and patterns since one week in order to be more comfortable with landings at different flaps angles. I was feeling vibrations in the stick (but what is not vibrating in this plane ?) something very slow like : brrrr......brrrr.....brrrrr. when a friend called me from the ground to say : "I hear this $% $% noise again". I asked him "Keep on and sing what you hear". It was about the same timing, somewhat shifted. I thought it could be from the elevator, I checked the control cables, found them a bit loose, retightened them (by chance I had deciced to mount the turnbuckles on the elevator horns side, not inside the belly...). I and some other guys we did a dozen more patterns : no more rumble. Imagine that, guys, flutter (sort of) on a 701 !!!! I don't like AT ALL the way the 7C1.1 bellcrank is mounted : ON THE TORQUE TUBE, which make the cable tight on a right turn (they even touch each other), and loose on a left turn (or the reverse, depends how you crossed them). Having mounted it ON THE SIDE of the torque tube makes the things even worse. I coated each one with three shrink tubes. Of course AFTER having seen they touched, which means 2 hours lost to cut and reinstall the thimbles and Nicopress. Sure Chris Heintz was asleep on his feet when he designed this part... Claude PS : Chris, I reply through the list, it's ALSO a 701 list :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: 701 stuff
Joe Bucher wrote: > by the way what is your actual STOL and your top speed? Well, Joe, not exactly what I expected. Some data : 701-912 built as per plans, tundra tires, plus a lot of goodies and mods that, unexpectedly, reappeared on the scale : empty weight : 600 lbs. Gravel airfield : 1650 ft altitude, temp = 30 Celsius, wind less than 5 kts. Pilot + full fwd tank = 265 lbs (reluctant to give you the detail...) Weight at takeoff = 865 lbs, CG at 29% MAC Takeoff distance = 300 ft Best climb rate with 15deg flaps : 1000 ft/mn Top speed at 2000ft, 5600rpm, no flaps = 70kts Today, 2 on board with 3 tanks full (yes, I know, 1100 lbs is a bit heavy and the nose was a bit high), speed at 5000ft / 5000rpm = 60kts, climb rate at 6000ft / 5200rpm : 200ft/mn. Landings : Same weight and weather conditions, no brakes (more exactly Matco disc brakes, which is the same, except the weight and the price). Clean : approach at 60 kts full idle, markings at 55, flare at 50, run : 600 ft 15 deg flaps (electric flaps with digital indicator) : 45, 40 and 33, run 400 ft. Flare manageable up to 20 / 22 deg flaps full idle (at 22deg, must begin flare at 30 ft height). Flaps at 30 deg : same figures, but have to flare with the trottle very precisely when the stick reaches full aft. If I leave full idle, the tail is not blown, and I may pull the stick full aft, nothing happens, the nose does not raise at all. The first time, I splashed down like a cow sh__ , but thanks to the "drag" tubes I added to the main gear, all was ok except my pride. I'll carve in my stones : in case of engine failure, 15 deg flaps max. > Regarding the rumbling I've had to tension my fuse side panels I glued all inside rear fuselage with 3mm soft neoprene, I don't want to go caving in there anymore. Will change the 1mm Zenair Lexan (their logo should be "You can't find lighter and cheaper"), fairly cracked after 20 hours, for a 2mm one. I hope this will allow me to change my PTY button (push to yell) for a standard PTT one. > and add another diagonal brace to stabilise the struts ( non faired struts ). Good idea, will add that to my -already fairly long- mod list. > Tail winds, you need them with the 701 You bet, tomorrow, I'll tell you how today could have been a bad day. By the way did you say STOL ? Claude ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Day" <robday(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: 701 stuff
Date: Sep 12, 1999
.> uncrt(at)aol.com wrote, > 2. I am going to mount a radio (COM? ) while building. What are your > thoughts on a GPS/COM? What can you tell me about antennas and a lessor > expensive (read cheap) GPS/COM? > 3. We plan on ordering everything from Zenith.....instrument > pkg.....firewall forward pkg......912.....strobes......folding wing.....what > are your thoughts on this plan? i.e. can I do better buying the instruments > separately? > 4. I plan on using this bird in acquiring my private. Anyone see any > problems with that? Any suggestions? Thanks guys > uncrt(at)aol.com > > Hello, Regarding the GPS/COMM issue, I would wait until it's time to install it before buying it. Why? The prices of these items, especially GPS, is dropping. Also, I've found out that it may work better (for me) to buy a standard NAV/COM/ILS and add an approach certified GPS w/map for around $2400. Apollo makes some of the most attractive (price and looks) units, and they're almost in a real-world budget :-) As far as instruments, Zenith's aren't junk or anything, but if you want everything to be "just-so" like me, you might want to compare the catalog prices of what they offer, through Wick's or Aircraft Spruce (or WAG or Leading Edge Airfoils, or...you know).You'll also have more options if you don't restrict yourself to ZAC. I plan to get the firewall-forward pack from them, but there are some items I just want to change, for whatever reason. I like their NAV/STROBE light kit, and will probably buy it. For your PPL, as far as I know (ok, admittedly not much) all you have to do is find a willing CFI, and as long as the plane is never flown for compensation, you should be good to go. There's a flight school in Canada called FlyPass that used 601's. HOWEVER, take all of this with a big ol' grain of salt, because I've been at the same stage of building for a long time, which is STARTING. My information is only what I've learned from researching this list, a couple of newsgroups, and bugging ZAC for about 2 years now. I promised myself I'd get out of debt first; I'm shooting for New Years. 8-) Good luck, Robert Day ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Day" <robday(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: Control Cable
Date: Sep 12, 1999
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: 701 stuff
UNCRT(at)aol.com wrote: > 1. What size work table do I need? Is a 4 x 14 necessary or, for a 701, will > a 4 x 12 work? Ideal size = fuselage length + room for plans and cans of beer. > 3. We plan on ordering everything from Zenith.....instrument > pkg.....firewall forward pkg......912.....strobes......folding wing.....what > are your thoughts on this plan? i.e. can I do better buying the instruments > separately? Robert Day reply was well balanced on the subject. Mine would be more abrupt : Buy only the firewall backward package plus the engine mount. Period. I could not use anything but the ASI (temp senders don't fit the 912, need a microscope to read the tachometer, one needle alti with Hg inches window useless in Europe, etc...). Build the plane first, then buy the engine and instruments when you can't do anything but install them : if you buy the engine now, the warranty will have elapsed when you're ready to install it. Claude ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: Control Cable
Bill Morelli wrote: > For some unknown reason, I was under the impression that the kit came with > 1/8" stainless control cable!! > Well, today I was going to start making cables and found that ZAC supplies > 1/8" 7 x 7 galvanized cable. Dream is a feature of man. I received 3/32" 7x7 galva. Zenair logo should be "We can't do lighter or cheaper". > Trying to decide if I should use the galvanized or spend $50.00 and go with > stainless?? For a same kind of cable, stainless has 20% less strength than galva. I use 1/8" 7x19 stainless (1700 lbs instead of 2000 for galva). I'll have to be a bit lighter on the controls :-) Claude 701 F-JCUO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 1999
Subject: Re: cork sheet
From: "Grant Corriveau" <gfcorriv(at)total.net>
Rich, I'd sure like to know the brand name or some other means to track down this material. Thanks, Grant ---------- >From: Rich <rich(at)carol.net> >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: cork sheet >Date: Wed, Sep 8, 1999, 10:37 PM > > >> for noise reduction all inside the fuselage in my CH701, which is know to be >> a good flying drum. > > At our EAA chapter someone brought in a sample of sound deadening foil > with adhesive on one side attached to a piece of sheet aluminum. To test > it, it said to drop the 3" x 5" piece of sheet aluminum without the > foil. Then drop the piece with the foil. The piece with the foil must > have been 50% more quiet and was only covering about 50% of the alum > sheet. Amazing stuff. I think it was either G.E. or Dupont. Not sure. > It's a lot lighter than neoprene, non combustible and only about .010" > to .015" thick. I think the same can be done with double sided tape & > ordinary household aluminum foil. I haven't tried it yet. > > Rich > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 1999
Subject: Re: Attaching Fiberglass Saddle
From: "Grant Corriveau" <gfcorriv(at)total.net>
Mike, What are rivnuts? Grant ---------- >From: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca> >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Attaching Fiberglass Saddle >Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999, 9:46 AM > > > Fred; > I used rivnuts on the fiberglass. > Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 1999
Subject: CAM 100 or 125?
From: "Grant Corriveau" <gfcorriv(at)total.net>
Just when you think you've decided on an engine.... I was looking with interest at the European Zenithair dealer who has a 601HD flying with the CAM100 engine. It looks good and now that they have a cowling and the details worked out, this deserves another look. I called the supplier (being in Canada, this is also an advantage for me...) and they informed me that they are now producing a very nice CAM 125 with electronic ignition plus electronic fuel injection. The only drawback to this engine is the weight. Didn't I see that someone on this list is now installing the CAM 125 in his Zodiac 601? Thanks Grant Corriveau (gonna havta order an engine sooner or later!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Jokey 701 wing tanks
I mounted the 701 wing tanks as per plans with one valve per tank mounted on the 7F5.3 top channel, then a tee and a hose to the front tank valve. On the front tank I drilled a 3mm hole in the cap. The wing tanks having a vent tube open below the bottom skin, I did not drill the caps (see, I'm able to think hard). I like the idea to have a vent under the wing where air pressure is higher, as they do on many aircraft. I rinsed the tanks, checked for no leak, and I found (on static) that they filled the front tank in 15 minutes by gravity. I had already added on my list of mods to change the panel gauge tube for the good old cork-and-spoke system. The gauge tube cannot work properly for 2 reasons : 1. it is way too high with respect to the tank, so when the fuel reaches the bottom of the tube, the tank is still half-full. Maybe I'm stupid, but I could be interested to know what's the matter after. 2. when I fill it, the fuel goes up to the middle and stays there, because the upper tank tube fitting is oriented upward, so a bubble of air blocks the fuel. Maybe I'm stupid, but I could be interested to know what's the matter after. So yesterday was a nice day, I filled the 3 tanks for a scheduled 4 hours trip (2hr go + 2hr return) for a Fournier motorgliders fly'in (RF-6, RF-10, Ximangos and other marvels of which I could consider to build one next). We were 2 onboard. First we lost on our bumpy taxiway one gallon or two of fuel through the wing tank vent tubes. I discovered that the 701 could also be used as a municipal water cart. We did a vertical above a gliders airfield at 40 miles, where there is a famous restaurant, then decided to land for a coffee and a cigarette at an airport 20 miles farther (nice girl in the bar and no taxes there in weekends....). Calling the airfield for the fly'in, they told us that all motorgliders had took off one hour ago en route to the gliders airfield for a lunch in the restaurant. No need to check the fuel, so we reserved for the restaurant, and took off back with the wing tanks still full. On the way we crossed about 30 motorgliders, some ones southward, some ones northward, all faster than us. On the airfield, no motorgliders, but a 20kts crosswind with gusts at 30, and the chef of the restaurant looking at us. At 30 ft from the ground, full throttle and way back home. Safety first. The chef must have eaten his 30 or 40 meals.... A strong front wind had appeared and we had a hard 30kts ground speed. I opened both wing tanks valves and asked my passenger to close them as soon as some fuel would go out of the cap hole onto the windshield. Nothing never came on the windshield. After a one hour flight, just before landing, I closed the valves and we landed uneventfully. I opened the front tank : there was about half a gallon of fuel, and the wing tanks were still full. If I had to do a forced landing, I had the choice between steep pine forests or rocks. I opened the valves and 3 cans of beer. End of story. Claude ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sam Cajun" <sam.caj(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List cork , engine, Plathey post
Date: Sep 12, 1999
> >Rich, > >I'd sure like to know the brand name or some other means to track down this >material. > >Thanks, >Grant >> ditto! Also, on the engine question, 801 and 601 builders looking at auto conversions might want to take a look at http://www.eggenfellneraircraft.com/page4.html . I have no connection, just came across them on the web and thought their wt, prices, hp etc. "look" good. Claude, keep the stories and data coming, they are very much appreciated. Sam(701, thinking good headset) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 1999
From: Chuck Deiterich <cfd(at)tstar.net>
Subject: Re: Attaching Fiberglass Saddle
Rivnuts are rivets that have threads on the inside that will take a machine screw like 6-32, 8-32 etc. These would be good for inspection hole covers. They install like pop rivets but instead of the mandrel that breaks off when you pull it, there is a threaded rod which is pulled and then unscrewed from the rivnut. You can buy a special rivnut puller or buy a rod that can be pulled with a regular puller. Chuck Deiterich 701 Grant Corriveau wrote: > > Mike, > What are rivnuts? > > Grant > > ---------- > >From: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca> > >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Attaching Fiberglass Saddle > >Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999, 9:46 AM > > > > > > > > Fred; > > I used rivnuts on the fiberglass. > > Mike > > Matronics: http://www.matronics.com > Zenith-List: http://www.matronics.com/zenith-list > Archive Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search > Archive Browsing: http://www.matronics.com/archives > Other Email Lists: http://www.matronics.com/other ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: new logo for 701
Sam Cajun wrote: > Sam(701, thinking good headset) Yeah, new logo for the 701 : Nice little plane with good tailwinds and good headset. Claude ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jimingerman" <jimingerman(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: 801 work bench
Date: Sep 12, 1999
I have seen a couple of questions on size of workbench for 801 building and decided to tell you what i've done. first of all let me say i have a 28x36 shop so room is not to much of an issue. ZAC reccomends min. of 4x12'. the wings are 14'. it was easy for me to build a 4x16' table because i would'nt need to cut a sheet of 4x8. boy am i glad i went with the big table!!! with the right wing currently laid out on the table i still have room to set down tools and work on sub assemblies at each end. as for construction my welder buddy built 4 saw horses out of 1 1/2" sched 40 pipe and tacked welded three 16' 2x2" steel tubes lenthwise on which i screwed 2 4x8 sheets of 1" underlaminate. with 5/8" bolts on the bottom of each leg of the sawhorses it can be levelled very nicely.( also available 10x5' "ping pong" stock for 20x5' table which would be nice) when the table is no longer needed the tack welds can be ground and table disassembled and used at the wifes garage sales( almost justifies cost ) hope this helps ---jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 1999
From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Attaching Fiberglass Saddle
But they, being aluminum do NOT work well. You would be better off to use nut plates if you can get to the back to set the small rivets that hold them. > >Rivnuts are rivets that have threads on the inside that will take a machine >screw like 6-32, 8-32 etc. These would be good for inspection hole covers. They >install like pop rivets but instead of the mandrel that breaks off when you pull >it, there is a threaded rod which is pulled and then unscrewed from the rivnut. >You can buy a special rivnut puller or buy a rod that can be pulled with a >regular puller. >Chuck Deiterich 701 > >Grant Corriveau wrote: > >> >> Mike, >> What are rivnuts? >> >> Grant >> >> ---------- >> >From: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca> >> >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >> >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Attaching Fiberglass Saddle >> >Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999, 9:46 AM >> > >> >> >> > >> > Fred; >> > I used rivnuts on the fiberglass. >> > Mike >> >> Matronics: http://www.matronics.com >> Zenith-List: http://www.matronics.com/zenith-list >> Archive Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search >> Archive Browsing: http://www.matronics.com/archives >> Other Email Lists: http://www.matronics.com/other > > Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! Visit our web site at... http://www.bellanca-championclub.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 1999
From: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Attaching Fiberglass Saddle
Grant; They are captive nuts that are pulled sort of like a pop rivet. Check AS on page 101. Mike Grant Corriveau wrote: > > Mike, > What are rivnuts? > > Grant > > ---------- > >From: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca> > >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Attaching Fiberglass Saddle > >Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999, 9:46 AM > > > > > > > Fred; > > I used rivnuts on the fiberglass. > > Mike > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 1999
From: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Attaching Fiberglass Saddle
Guess I don't understand the problem. After 5 years and over 800 hrs and several removals etc my rivnuts are still like new. Mike Cy Galley wrote: > > But they, being aluminum do NOT work well. You would be better off to use > nut plates if you can get to the back to set the small rivets that hold them. > > > > >Rivnuts are rivets that have threads on the inside that will take a machine > >screw like 6-32, 8-32 etc. These would be good for inspection hole covers. > They > >install like pop rivets but instead of the mandrel that breaks off when > you pull > >it, there is a threaded rod which is pulled and then unscrewed from the > rivnut. > >You can buy a special rivnut puller or buy a rod that can be pulled with a > >regular puller. > >Chuck Deiterich 701 > > > >Grant Corriveau wrote: > > > >> > >> Mike, > >> What are rivnuts? > >> > >> Grant > >> > >> ---------- > >> >From: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca> > >> >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > >> >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Attaching Fiberglass Saddle > >> >Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999, 9:46 AM > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > Fred; > >> > I used rivnuts on the fiberglass. > >> > Mike > >> > >> Matronics: http://www.matronics.com > >> Zenith-List: http://www.matronics.com/zenith-list > >> Archive Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search > >> Archive Browsing: http://www.matronics.com/archives > >> Other Email Lists: http://www.matronics.com/other > > > > > Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! > Visit our web site at... http://www.bellanca-championclub.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 1999
From: Rich <rich(at)carol.net>
Subject: Re: cork sheet
The foil is actually 3M Damping Foil 2552 (with a pressure sensitive viscoelastic polymer backed foil... ie. adhesive) Per their instructions: To request additional info or to arrange for sales assistance call toll free 1800-362-3550. Address correspondence to: 3M Industrial Tape & Specialties Division 3M Center Building 220-7W-03 St Paul, MN 55144-1000 Should be able to ask for a sample. Give it a try. Rich > >> for noise reduction all inside the fuselage in my CH701, which is know to be > >> a good flying drum. > > > > At our EAA chapter someone brought in a sample of sound deadening foil > > with adhesive on one side attached to a piece of sheet aluminum. To test > > it, it said to drop the 3" x 5" piece of sheet aluminum without the > > foil. Then drop the piece with the foil. The piece with the foil must > > have been 50% more quiet and was only covering about 50% of the alum > > sheet. Amazing stuff. I think it was either G.E. or Dupont. Not sure. > > It's a lot lighter than neoprene, non combustible and only about .010" > > to .015" thick. I think the same can be done with double sided tape & > > ordinary household aluminum foil. I haven't tried it yet. > > > > Rich ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: nut plates and edge distance...
Date: Sep 12, 1999
Got my hands on some nut plates the other day. Sure looks like they save a lot of time when you can't get to the back of a piece that needs a bolt, etc. Was wondering though, since the rivets that hold the nut plate are so close to the actual hole, is there a structural concern? The nut plates I have definitely would violate the edge distance rules, just not sure if the whole assembly factor makes this a moot point. Don Honabach, 601HDS, Tempe, AZ (Stalled with the bulding the landing gear ribs, trying to make the gear slides perfectly symetrical and it's just not happening.) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Coax Cable for transponders
>>>Can you tell me the difference between RG142 and RG400 >>>cable except that one has solid center conductor and the >>>other stranded. >> >>bn: Why use either of these cables? > >Well, for one reason, the Bendix/King KLX-135A Installation Manual >specifies that if the length of the coax is to be longer than 9 feet (as I >recall), RG-142 or RG-400 is to be used. > > >bn: The modern RG cables like 400 and 142 are still >bn: small diameter cables and have losses comparable >bn: to RG-58. > >NOT TRUE. >RG58 has a nominal attenuation of 20db per 100 feet at 1GHz. >RG142 has a nominal attenuation of 13db per 100 feet at 1GHz. bn: I stand corrected . . . but for a run of say 15' (very long in a single engine airplane) we're talking 3db for RG58 versus 2db for RG142 . . . which is still trivial. I encourage my readers to put the xponder antenna as close to the instrument panel as they can. Given that very few antennas are on the belly of any airplane, a coax length of 5-6 feet is possible for most airplanes . . . a GOOD thing to shoot for irrespective of the kind of coax you use. Losses in this length of coax are insignificant. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < Independence Kansas: the > < Jurassic Park of aviation. > < Your source for brand new > < 40 year old airplanes. > ================================= http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 1999
From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: nut plates and edge distance...
Nut plate attach rivet holes go parallel to the sheet edge not at right angles. They do make single tab, two 2 rivets on one side or they also mad a right angled one that you could move the rivet holes father from the sheet edge. Nut plates are the way to go if you are making an access panel, or fastening something like a fairing that has to be removed for inspections. Makes a two person job into one. Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh EAA volunteer for 28 continous years > >Got my hands on some nut plates the other day. Sure looks like they save a >lot of time when you can't get to the back of a piece that needs a bolt, >etc. > >Was wondering though, since the rivets that hold the nut plate are so close >to the actual hole, is there a structural concern? The nut plates I have >definitely would violate the edge distance rules, just not sure if the whole >assembly factor makes this a moot point. > >Don Honabach, 601HDS, Tempe, AZ >(Stalled with the bulding the landing gear ribs, trying to make the gear >slides perfectly symetrical and it's just not happening.) > > Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! Visit our web site at... http://www.bellanca-championclub.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Sep 12, 1999
Subject: Two MORE Email Lists at Matronics...
Dear Listers, At the request of a couple of members, I have added two more Email Lists to the Servers here at Matronics. These include: avionics-list(at)matronics.com Aircraft Avionics related topics such as Radios, GPSs, VSIs, DMEs, etc. engines-list(at)matronics.com Aircraft Engine related topics such as Lycomings, Auto conversions, etc. As usual, the new lists have full archive searching and browsing capabilities. You may subscribe to the new lists by using the Web-Based subscription form at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Coax Cable
>Thanks for the helpful advice. . . . . . Maybe >you might expand on your explanation and suggest or remind those >interested that a stranded center conductor coaxial cable is the best way >to go in a mobile installation. Excellent point. About 33 years ago we had a rash of VOR antenna system failures in the Cessna singles. Seems the coax cable from panel to antenna back on the vertical fin became shorted. It took some digging to figure out why. The coax had been routed through an area of structure where the bend radius was too tight. Over time, the pressure of a single strand conductor on the plastic caused the wire to cold-flow through the insulation and short out on the outer conductor! Replacment of the coax with stranded center conductor -AND- rerouting for a larger bend radius prevented this from happening again . . . Further, a stranded conductor is more resistant to breakage from flexing and is preferable for that reason also. Thanks for the reminder! Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < Independence Kansas: the > < Jurassic Park of aviation. > < Your source for brand new > < 40 year old airplanes. > ================================= http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 1999
From: boardman(at)borg.com (Don Boardman)
Subject: Re: 701 "rumble"
>I thought it could be from the elevator, I checked the control cables, >found them >a bit loose, retightened them (by chance I had deciced to mount the >turnbuckles on >the elevator horns side, not inside the belly...). >I and some other guys we did a dozen more patterns : no more rumble. >Imagine that, guys, flutter (sort of) on a 701 !!!! > >I don't like AT ALL the way the 7C1.1 bellcrank is mounted : ON THE TORQUE >TUBE, >which make the cable tight on a right turn (they even touch each other), >and loose >on a left turn (or the reverse, depends how you crossed them). >Having mounted it ON THE SIDE of the torque tube makes the things even worse. >I coated each one with three shrink tubes. Of course AFTER having seen >they touched, >which means 2 hours lost to cut and reinstall the thimbles and Nicopress. I installed a pulley and a tensioning spring hooked to a stiffner on the rear fusalage floor on one of the cables to keep the cables taunt as there tension changed with aileron input. Chris Ok'ed it and it has worked fine. Don Boardman Rome, NY N701ST 912 Amphib, 545 Hobbs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: 701 stuff part 1
Hi builders. Here is the logg of my 701-912 building, if anyone interested. Hope there is food for 601 buffs too (items marked ***). I've tried to be constructive. Since I'm too lazy to make a web site, I'll post you the pictures personnally if you are interested. 1. Workbench ------------ I have a 4 x 17 ft table, a bending brake, a lathe. The main tools were a Black-Decker bandsaw (with a fine wood band) which allowed me to cut all small pieces, extrusions, even the 1/4 steel tubes... And a small hand sander to smooth all corners. And a digital level meter, that I consider mandatory. 2. Receiving the kit -------------------- I sorted the parts by kind (wings, fuse, etc). Then, before building a new piece, I cleaned the parts, remove (and try to remember) all labels, and I zinc-chromated everything. 3. Building ----------- Heintz plans are very clear, just have to gather every part, work it, and assemble. I spent 1300 hours, from a 49% kit. 3.1. Wings ---------- I detected some errors in the plans : 7V3.2 : drill the 3 holes 9mm from the bottom, not 11mm. 7V3 Spar assembly : tip station is at 3585 (3090+495), not 3595. 7V4.7 flaperon arm : the radius R=17 at X=135 / Y=51 does not allow the flaperon to move free, and must be widely filed once the flaperon is installed. 7V6 wing skeleton : the spar flanges are aftward. I did not understand why flush rivets where to be used to rivet rear skins to the spar. I clecoed the rear skins to the ribs, then drilled them on the spar caps. Then I slided the nose skin between the rear skins and the spar, and drilled it through the holes, removed and deburred. Then clecoed all again, but with the nose skin above the rear skins before riveting. Easier to say than to do. The struts I received were in 2 parts, one sleeve welded STRAIGHT on one tube. Zenair does not know the 30deg cut for welding tubes. This defies common sense. I used single tube struts and machined the 8 upper and lower fittings. As the aviation Bibles say. 3.2. Slats ---------- Needed 8 days to to them. I had to build a jig with 2 dozens of templates and 2 dozens of ratchet belts. Given the dimensions of the 7S1.6 slat support, the data on drawings 7S2-above and 7S1.2 (33mm) are not consistent. The slat supports must be cut on the ref line of drawing 7S2-above. (***)I mounted 2 50W-12V bulbs (from my bathroom...) in the left slat, between the center rib and another extra rib. Makes a 100 W landing light ! (picture #1). 3.3. Flaperons Better to check the position of the 7A1.5 hinge brackets on the wing arms rather than on the plans. Reality is sometimes different from theory. I made a higher 7A2.2 rear splice plates to have a ~70mm lever arm instead of the ~40mm one, for better stiffness. I removed the 7C1.6 flaperon rod quick disconnect end, called "widow maker" in France for its lack of lock pin. Replaced with a normal rod end and a re-threaded AN5 bolt. Disconnecting is by removing a bolt. Still quick, but safe. (pic #4, drwg #2). (***)Installed a large washer close to rod ends wherever they could jump out, should they break. Also between bellcranks and cotter pins. Just common sense. 3.4. Fuselage ------------- Tail cone. ---------- On the tail cone, once riveted the bottom longerons on the (pre-drilled) 7F2.3 bottom skin, the 7F1.4 tail frame did not enter, I had to re-drill the holes a bit forward. I added "L" diagonal stiffners between the vertical ones, not for strength, but for the hope it would reduce noise and oil canning. And I glued a 3mm soft neoprene sheet on the 4 sides. I added 100mm x 100mm triangular gussets at each corner of each bulkhead for the same reason. I made a mistake : mounting the 7F2.4 access cover with 3/32" anchor nuts at a pitch of 40mm, which was about 120 plain rivets to hammer, and now about 60 bolts to remove... What if (or when) the nylon fairlead under the 7C5.3 rudder cable outlet gets worn ? Since I didn't even want to think to go in there to change it, I first riveted the nylon outside, under the outlet, did not like it, and spent one full day to carve a massive fairlead that could be twisted and removed from outside once removed the cover. I added static ports in front of the "L" (between 745 and 700, drwng 7F3 above) 240mm from the bottom. The ASI is exactly exact, as calibrated with a GPS. Front fuselage. --------------- Chris loves the sign ~. On the sketch 7F15-above, the angle between the firewall and the floor is ~80deg (BTW all dimensions are ~ ). I made a 80.00000000deg angle. Guess what: my prop thrust line is now at 4.1deg from the horizontal ref. Free advice : clamp the engine mount and check with the ref before riveting or bolting anything. 4.1deg pitching down prop thrust line means : flying level at full load, you don't see the horizon. In the 7F1.2 panel I routed 4 holes : 2 big ones between the tank supports, 2 small ones on the sides. What was left was reinforced with "L". This allows to mount removable panels and to think to that later. (pictures #2 and #3). The flaps arm was replaced with a homemade motor located under the left seat, which moves a 3/8" threaded rod and a linear slide potentiometer for the angle display. 2 diodes, 2 limit switches and a rocker switch do the job.Run : 60mm in 9 seconds. Reason : one have no strength with outstretched arm to move the handle forward. (drawing #1). The 7F7.2 vertical lower channel was made 88mm wide instead of 65, and the 7F7.6 bungee pin replaced with a longer one. Reason : as it is designed, the bungee would have been quickly cut like a sausage by the channel sides. The holes in the 7F7.1 / 7F7.4 upper and 7F8.4 / 7F8.5 lower bearings were given a 2 1/4 diameter (instead of 2") to allow mounting two 1" thick nylon bearings, or more exactly 1 full upper and 2 half lower bearings (pic #5). The 7F8.6 gear stops were made straight. Reason : unable to move the rudder pedals with the "self centering" vees. Just for fun : on 7F11.4, the laws of geometry are not those we learned.... The 7F14.1 cowl support was found to be useless because the insertion of the fiberglas between the two sheets suspected to be problematic. Four steel .016 plates 1" by 1" were flush riveted under 7F14.4, then both drilled to 9mm for the Dzus. The springs were flush riveted to the upper cowl. The front tank straps were made of .016 steel and the strap angles bolted to the firewall and the channels. Reason : a friend got the full tank on his feet during a steep turn. The 7F17.1 gear/strut fitting should be made with tubes (3/32 wall) welded in place of the bolts, and the ~90 and ~99 dimensions increased accordingly. It's bad job to weld a bolt. A friend broke a bolt on a hard landing, his fuselage is now in his backyard. 7F19 ~Doors ~were ~made ~with ~~~~~sliding ~plexiglass ~sheets which decided to stay on the runway when full throttle was applied. Of course they first did not clear the struts and braces... (....to be continued....) Claude ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 1999
From: claude <claude.plathey(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: 701 stuff, part 2
(... part 2/2) 3.4. Stab --------- The 7H3.1 hinge plates were doubled around the hole. The hole was drilled at 1/4 to receive a bushing. 3.6. Elevator ------------- A MAC trim was installed, with a small access door. The Zenair low quality hinge (too much play) was replaced with an MS20001-P4 extruded one. The trim horn was cut off and riveted to the plate in the center, for less twist when full deflected. 3.7. Fin -------- A Wheelen strobe was installed on top of the fin. The three 7R2.3 horn holes were drilled to 1/4 for bushings, the ends reinforced locally for less play in the turnbuckcle. 3.8. Gear ---------- Since I was too lazy to make new gear/strut fittings, I mounted 2 "drag" tubes between the bottom of the gear and somewhere under the fuselage.(pic #6 and #7) Two pieces of 10mm nylon reinforced rubber, coming from a conveyor belt, were used as a shock absorber under the strut/gear fittings. The four AN3-5A bolts holding the nose fork were replaced with AN4-5A. The front wheel axle was made with a 5/8 4mm-wall tube. The fork flanges drilled to 5/8 so the axle transmits the load directly to the fork, not through the bolts. A 8mm threaded rod goes in the axle, ended by washers and castle nuts. The 3/4 spacers tubes were steel instead of alum. (These mods after all what I've seen........) 3.9. Panel ---------- see pics 2 and 3. 3.10.Engine ----------- (***)Rotax requests a filtering condensator on the 12V bus. I added in serie with the condensator, between the "-" and the bus a 12V 2W bulb. When I close the main battery switch (automotive model located on the 7F11.1 seat front), the condensator is flat and the bulb lights a short moment then goes off. If the condensator go short, the bulb will light. Better than a fuse... The water pump outlets face directly the engine rear mount bolts. I was obliged to change the 2 lower outlets angles. Had to remove the pump cover, heat the outlets to remove them and install new ones. They are glued with green Loctite. The carb overspill tubes fall directly on the exhaust pipes. I installed long ones to the firewall bottom. I replaced the alum tube connecting both inlet manifolds with one without pressure outlet. (***)A heat screen made of two .040 alum plates (5mm from each other) was monted on the exhaust bolts under each carb. (***)I installed a Facet pump between the main tank and the engine pump. I use it only at cold start to prime the carb, and to get rid of the vapor lock when the engine is stopped (hot) for few minutes. (***)I first forgot to ground the engine to the firewall. I thought the starter was dead.... I made the throttle control rigid from the bellcrank (had to move one arm at another place). (pic #8). I changed the choke cable for a smoother nylon coated one and made a system simpler than the Zenair one (pic #9). (***)I discovered that the oil filter was the Renault R4L one ($8). (***)I found that the temp and pressure senders had to go to VDO automotive gauges, nothing else. 4. Prop ------- The 3-blade 68" GSC pitch was adjusted with a keyring laser (pic #10). Static RPM was found 5300. 5. Tests -------- Empty weight : 600 lbs Empty CG : 24% MAC. 6. Modifications I will make ---------------------------- Set the thrust line correctly by installing new engine brackets. Replace the 7F8.6 gear stops with nylon bars, because the rudder tubes hammer the alum stops and make nasty noise on each bump. Install a 2nd Facet pump to empty the wing tanks (the fuel refuses to go down in flight). Tap the wing tanks lower air vents (or fountains if you prefer) and drill the caps (fuel is $4.40 a gallon here...). Remove the panel fuel gauge tube, install a cork-and-spoke system. Change the 1mm Lexan for a 2mm one. Change the high quality GSC prop for a high quality carbon one. 7. THE modification I should have made Build a 9.80m span wing instead of 8.22m. Due to old UL regs now obsolete here, most 701s built in France had to have this span. They fly MUCH better, I know a 701 with a Hirth F30 which is a HELL of STOL and lands (in clean) within a handkerchief. That's it folks. Now let me some time to take the pics... Claude ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 1999
Subject: Re: nut plates and edge distance...
From: "Grant Corriveau" <gfcorriv(at)total.net>
>From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> ... > Don Honabach, 601HDS, Tempe, AZ > (Stalled with the bulding the landing gear ribs, trying to make the gear > slides perfectly symetrical and it's just not happening.) Hi Don, Your comment about 'stalled with the building' resonated with me. Seems I also stalled out many times because of a particular difficulty that stumped me for a while. I do recall that the gear slides were a challenge and I'm sure mine didn't turn out perfectly. I can't even imagine how some of the builders on the list have even managed to add slide bearing materials, etc. etc. etc. I was just glad to get mine together some how and to see that when I test-installed the leg, it could actually slide! I think I used a wooden dowel or some other kind of block to hold the slide spacing gaps while assembling all this. When I inserted the gear legs, the leg pins rubbed (maybe just a little too much?) along the bearing slides like they should and I could make the legs move up and down. I figured if


August 12, 1999 - September 13, 1999

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