Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-cb
January 22, 2001 - February 20, 2001
I
> locate the strobe power packs; on the spar, on an internal rib, on the
> inside of the tip rib?
> Regards,
> Roger Tunsley
> CH601HDS
> www.casterbridge.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd(at)tstar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kit Planes on Discovery |
Its also on the Dish Network Satellite for regular TV's.
----- Original Message -----
From: P. Owens <powens(at)inwave.com>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 2:11 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Kit Planes on Discovery
>
> Dear Friends,
> I was interested in this program also but it was not listed in my
> area either, so I went to the web site and discovered the WINGS
> DISCOVERY channel is DIGITAL ONLY! So I guess if we want to see it we
> either have to get digital service or write a lot of letters to the
> Discovery channel telling them we want to see it on the regular
> channel. How about it guys, do we want to see the program on regular
> tv? If so we need a write in campaign.
> Phil Owens
> CH-801 N84349 Builder
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SkyKingN(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 01/20/01 |
Placed power supply at wing tip, saved running all the harnesses back through
to cabin, also, keeps the sending unit away from the radios. Use sheilded
wire for returns to panels ,feed source. keep the work simple, will be flying
sooner. regards, sky.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd(at)tstar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 01/20/01 |
And if you use anchor nuts on the fiber glass wing tips you can get to the
power supplies with out drilling rivets.
----- Original Message -----
From: <SkyKingN(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 01/20/01
>
> Placed power supply at wing tip, saved running all the harnesses back
through
> to cabin, also, keeps the sending unit away from the radios. Use sheilded
> wire for returns to panels ,feed source. keep the work simple, will be
flying
> sooner. regards, sky.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ivan Rosales" <ingenieros(at)netservice.com.mx> |
Hi guys:
I think this was discussed before but couldn't find it in the archives.
I'm in the process of drilling the center wing bottom skin to the rear ribs.
The draft manual says that you have to clamp a 3/4 " tube between the gear
slides to get the proper distance between them but if a do so the 6L3-1 that
has to go between the slides will not fit. Seems like the part 6L3-1 was
made from .5 to 1 mm too narrow. Should I file the gear slides? Has anyone
encountered a similar problem? Thanks in advance.
Ivan Rosales
601 HD From Kit
Mexico City
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Douglas Corarito <dougc(at)infoequipt.com> |
| Subject: | Discovery Wings Channel Zenith Show Videotaped! |
Hi everyone,
I have the show on VHS. I'm too lazy to disconnect/reconnect both my
VCRs to make a dupe. Keeping with the lazy theme, I didn't edit out
the commercials either, so have that finger on the FF button of your
remote. Why is it that I pay extra for Discovery Wings and I'm
forced to sit through a myriad of commercials? Seesh!
If you'd like to barrow my copy for your own personal viewing :-) let me know.
Please contact me directly at :
dougc(at)infoequipt.com
and we'll make arrangements.
--
mailto:dougc(at)INFOequipt.com
http://www.infoequipt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
I took off the tube from a gear leg and used it to
gauge the separation of the slides. I installed the
top L stiffeners as prescribed. Then, I riveted a
temporary piece of aluminium to the bottom of the
slides (I saw that trick on someonelse's web site) to
make the spacing fixed. It worked well.
Michel
--- Ivan Rosales wrote:
>
>
> Hi guys:
> I think this was discussed before but couldn't find
> it in the archives.
> I'm in the process of drilling the center wing
> bottom skin to the rear ribs.
> The draft manual says that you have to clamp a 3/4 "
> tube between the gear
> slides to get the proper distance between them but
> if a do so the 6L3-1 that
> has to go between the slides will not fit. Seems
> like the part 6L3-1 was
> made from .5 to 1 mm too narrow. Should I file the
> gear slides? Has anyone
> encountered a similar problem? Thanks in advance.
> Ivan Rosales
> 601 HD From Kit
> Mexico City
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fhulen" <fhulen(at)gabs.net> |
In Bill's recent "I did it" posting about his first flight, he mentions that
his canopy fogged up, and that he turned on the exhaust fan and it cleared
right up. In one of the aviation magazines that I receive it listed a "Top
12 things" checklist of things that they thought should be included in every
instrument panel design. A "defrost vent" on the front screen was on that
list. This brings forth a question that I had been meaning to post. Do any
of you have this, what's your experience, and of those of you that don't
have this vent, have you run into times when the front canopy fogged up to a
point that you needed or wished that you had this mentioned vent?
Thanks
Fred Getting close to hanging the 3300 engine....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601HDS KIT FOR SALE |
where are you located???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Veltri" <Vijan(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601HDS KIT FOR SALE |
Sarasota, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: <Newdude(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HDS KIT FOR SALE
>
> where are you located???
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Mayne" <bazmay(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Fogging canopy |
G'day Fred,
No I don't have a demisting vent for the screen and don't really know if
it's needed. The bubble gets a lot of handprints and other stuff on it and I
clean it pretty often. I use an anti static cleaning solution which stops
dust clinging to the canopy and also has the added advantage of eliminating
fogging.
Take it for what it's worth.
Barry Mayne HDS Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: fhulen <fhulen(at)gabs.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 1:18 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Fogging canopy
>
> In Bill's recent "I did it" posting about his first flight, he mentions
that
> his canopy fogged up, and that he turned on the exhaust fan and it cleared
> right up. In one of the aviation magazines that I receive it listed a
"Top
> 12 things" checklist of things that they thought should be included in
every
> instrument panel design. A "defrost vent" on the front screen was on that
> list. This brings forth a question that I had been meaning to post. Do any
> of you have this, what's your experience, and of those of you that don't
> have this vent, have you run into times when the front canopy fogged up to
a
> point that you needed or wished that you had this mentioned vent?
> Thanks
> Fred Getting close to hanging the 3300 engine....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <wings1(at)videotron.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fogging canopy |
Hello, Fred
I had an experience just this weekend that relates to your question. It
was a Cessna 152, not a Zodiac, but I think it applies.
Temperature was -10 C. I flew with my wife - my first passenger, her
first flight in a small A/C. We took our time getting prepared,
adjusting the seats, getting the map in position, etc. When I started
taxiing, the windshield was not only fogged, but frosted. It was not too
difficult to clear it, and after a few minutes with the engine running,
it got completely clear. The 152 has a small air vent next to the
windshield. Could be much bigger, but it works.
I believe the same would have happened in a 601.
Bottom line: I'll definitely have a defrost vent in my 601.
Cheers
Carlos
> In Bill's recent "I did it" posting about his first flight, he mentions that
> his canopy fogged up, and that he turned on the exhaust fan and it cleared
> right up. In one of the aviation magazines that I receive it listed a "Top
> 12 things" checklist of things that they thought should be included in every
> instrument panel design. A "defrost vent" on the front screen was on that
> list. This brings forth a question that I had been meaning to post. Do any
> of you have this, what's your experience, and of those of you that don't
> have this vent, have you run into times when the front canopy fogged up to a
> point that you needed or wished that you had this mentioned vent?
> Thanks
> Fred Getting close to hanging the 3300 engine....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fogging canopy |
Fred;
I installed the exhaust fan on the bulkhead at the rear of the baggage
shelf to coolthings off in summer but found that it defogged the canoy
in winter very well. It is a 12 volt computer type fan.
Mike
fhulen wrote:
>
>
> In Bill's recent "I did it" posting about his first flight, he mentions that
> his canopy fogged up, and that he turned on the exhaust fan and it cleared
> right up. In one of the aviation magazines that I receive it listed a "Top
> 12 things" checklist of things that they thought should be included in every
> instrument panel design. A "defrost vent" on the front screen was on that
> list. This brings forth a question that I had been meaning to post. Do any
> of you have this, what's your experience, and of those of you that don't
> have this vent, have you run into times when the front canopy fogged up to a
> point that you needed or wished that you had this mentioned vent?
> Thanks
> Fred Getting close to hanging the 3300 engine....
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mell" <kitplane(at)tradezone.com> |
, ,
| Subject: | First Flight Profile |
Hi,
When it was time for the first flight of our Glasair III, we were lucky
enough to have the assistance of a NAASA test pilot. We came up with a
first flight profile check list that some of you may be able to adapt to
your first flight. Hope it helps.
You can find it at this link.
http://www.kitplaneforum.com/ubb/Forum29/HTML/000001.html
Trip Mellinger
Glasair III
N196G
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | 701 Plans corrections, corrections? |
701 Listers:
After a long lull, I am trying to get started again on my 701 plans
built project. The first thing I did was dowloaded the 13 pages, 227
paragraphs of manual and plans corrections from the ZA site. I am up to the
point of laying out the rear fuselage so I reviewed the corrections
pertaining to pages 7F00 through 7F3 and found what I believe to be errors
as follows:
Par. 109: "Side Channels 7F5-3" should be 7F5-2
Par. 110: "8C5-3" should be 7C5-3
Par. 113: "line AA" should be AE
I need help confirming the following:
Par. 119, the first two sentences say: "7F3 Note: the distance from A to B
is 3050 measured along the EDGE OF THE SKIN. In the kit these distances are
set along the aircraft center line".
I just don't see how the above is possible, the rear top skin layout (7F2-1)
is with a 3050 centerline measurement between points AB plus a 20 mm
overhang for a total of 3070 as shown on the plans, as the top sheet edges
are obviously a longer run than the centerline, there is no way the sheet
side measurements can be "3050". Shouldn't the layout of the rear fuselage,
as shown at the top of 7F3, be done from the centerline of the top skin and
transfered to the side skins, Brought down perpendicular to line AE on the
side skins, and the measurements shown at the bottom of the side skins,
between points CD are approximations only (as the last three aft
measurements are noted).
What am I missing here?
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, 701 plans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Loer" <rloer(at)mighty.net> |
| Subject: | CH 701 plans for sale |
Check them out at:
http://www.barnstormers2000.com/show_ads.asp?CategoryPlans%2DBuilt&MainCatExperimental&startwith0&first1
also aluminum for wings, .020 not .016.
rloer(at)mighty.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | brentbattles(at)pipeline.com (Brent Battles) |
| Subject: | Re: Fogging canopy |
I'm reminded of Chris Heintz' poor-man's air conditioning option - a #2
pencil slipped under the front canopy seal. Seems like this would work
well for defrosting too.
Brent Battles N16BZ 64 Hrs 185 Landings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd(at)tstar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: JABIRU ENGINES |
Ashley,
I am building a Zenith 701 and already have the Jabiru 2200 motor mount.
Out of curiosity what does the FF (without mount but with a 2200 nose bowl)
kit for the 701 cost and what would the shipping costs be for it and later
an engine.
Thanks,
C. Deiterich
Bertram, TX 78605
USA
----- Original Message -----
From: Ashley & Margaret Johnston <Jabiru.nz(at)xtra.co.nz>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 2:41 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: JABIRU ENGINES
>
> Members,
>
> It is firstly a home builder and sport flyer that I am writing to your
group
> with some information many may find interesting.
> I have been privileged to represent Jabiru Pty Ltd in New Zealand since
> bringing the first Jabiru Aircraft here almost six years ago. Presently
> Jabiru Engines are available and landed at most world Custom Clearance
> Airports at:-
>
> 2200 cc 80 hp @ $6400 US
> 3300 cc 120 hp @ $9450 US
>
> All Engines are shipped fully insured and fitted complete with:-
> Oil Cooler
> Full exhaust system including in Cowl muffler
> Starter and Starter Solenoid
> Alternator and Voltage Regulator
> VDO Oil Pressure Sender
> VDO Oil Temperature Sender
>
> Zenair FF Kits are available for 601(with Cowls for both Engines)
> Zenair FF Kits are also avaibable for 701 (no Cowls)
>
> Kindest regards
>
> Ashley Johnston
>
> Jabiru New Zealand (064) 3 302 7197
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fogging canopy |
At 09:18 PM 23-01-2001 , you wrote:
>instrument panel design. A "defrost vent" on the front screen was on that
>list. This brings forth a question that I had been meaning to post. Do any
>of you have this, what's your experience, and of those of you that don't
>have this vent, have you run into times when the front canopy fogged up to a
>point that you needed or wished that you had this mentioned vent?
While I've made some winter flights with little problem, on a flight a
couple weeks ago (at just under the freezing point) there was extensive
fogging while warming up the engine and starting to fly. Keeping a good
airflow through the cabin cleared it up after some minutes of flight, but
having air ducted right to the windscreen infront of the pilot would
probably work much faster. With a 16 gal fuselage tank and a full set of
instruments (& wires & hoses) there's little space available for any
ductwork in my plane.
In a search of the archives I've kept, I found only a couple mentions of
defrost vents.
Mike Fothergill already mentioned how he handles it. Alan Newell in
Calgary, Alberta installed a duct from his cabin heating system, but at the
time he wrote, he hadn't flown it much in cold weather. (He has a Soob and
so used an oil cooler core with electric fans for cabin heat.)
Darryl West, also of Calgary, had a nice approach that avoided ductwork and
provided airflow on the canopy, even if it wasn't hot air. In his 1996
builder's report (available through the Zenith list-of-builders web page)
he wrote:
>I also put a 2" computer fan flush
>to the top of the dash in front of the pilot side to serve as a defroster
>(just prevents breath condensing there)..
When I asked him about it by email, part of his reply was:
> I am happy with the computer fan defroster thru 2 winters and some
>humid summer mornings. It does not have any hot air ducting feeding it,
>but it seems to do the trick anyway. With no SCAT ducting to it, it
>doesn't take up to much space beneath the top of the dash just in front
>of the pilot. Calgary is usually pretty dry (more so than Toronto, I
>suspect), but I have seen the fan make a difference several times. Of
>course, this is only helpful for internal condensation, not exterior
>icing. Being electric instead of ram-air, it can be run prior to engine
>startup when the canopy is closed and condensation is likely..
Ventilation fans with clip mountings and cigarette lighter plugs are
available for cars. For a quick remedy I wondered about adapting one of
them, although they might be too cheap and weak to be useful.
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON 601 HDS / 912 / C-GZDC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net> |
A fellow EAA member and I were discussing Bing carbs tonight. He has an Avid
Flyer on ski's with a Rotax XXX (two stroke) that I have forgotten the
number of. It has Bing 54 carbs. He (Frank) was telling me that in the
winter (cold here in Vermont) he has to change carb jets to richen up the
mixture. If he doesn't, his exhaust gas temp goes above the recommended
limit.
My questions are:
1 - Is that a concern for those of us running Bing carbs on the Stratus,
Rotax 912, etc?
2 - Why do the Bing carbs not require carb heat? Or do they actually require
carb heat and we simply don't put it on???
The information I received from Stratus and ZAC for the engine installation
made no mention of carb heat?
Regards,
Bill N812BM - CH601 HDS - Stratus - 2.1 flight hours, 11 landings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Raker <phadr2(at)yahoo.com> |
No, Bill.
Two-stroke engines are very sensitive to fuel/air
mixture. So much so that changes in air density from
temperature variations, and, of course, altitude
changes, cause the need to re-jet carburetors for the
previling conditions. This is true for almost any
type of vehicle which uses a two-stroke engine. Most
notable among those are ultralight aircraft and
snowmobiles (I work for Polaris).
Four-stroke engines are not nearly as sensitive
to fuel/air mixture as are the two strokes. You
should have no reason to worry about your Rotax
912/914 or Stratus with Bing carbs.
Phil R. - HDS Stratus; on wheels, too cold to work in
unheated shop in NW MN
--- Bill Morelli wrote:
>
>
> A fellow EAA member and I were discussing Bing carbs
> tonight. He has an Avid
> Flyer on ski's with a Rotax XXX (two stroke) that I
> have forgotten the
> number of. It has Bing 54 carbs. He (Frank) was
> telling me that in the
> winter (cold here in Vermont) he has to change carb
> jets to richen up the
> mixture. If he doesn't, his exhaust gas temp goes
> above the recommended
> limit.
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1 - Is that a concern for those of us running Bing
> carbs on the Stratus,
> Rotax 912, etc?
>
> 2 - Why do the Bing carbs not require carb heat? Or
> do they actually require
> carb heat and we simply don't put it on???
>
> The information I received from Stratus and ZAC for
> the engine installation
> made no mention of carb heat?
>
> Regards,
> Bill N812BM - CH601 HDS - Stratus - 2.1 flight
> hours, 11 landings
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 801 Wing Lessons Learned Summary |
A few weeks ago, I requested lessons learned on the 801 Wing from those of
you who have "graduated" from the wings portion of this kit. I received a
number of very good comments, which I've compiled and posted on our web site.
http://www.geocities.com/z4t143/wing_builders_lessons.html
Thanks to all who contributed. Hope this is useful to other 801'ers.
Dave Zilz
St. Peters MO
e-mail: z4t143(at)aol.com
web site: www.geocities.com/z4t143/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
Bill,
The two stroke is dependant upon the oil in the fuel for lube and cooling
and because
of this, running lean would cause the engine to overheat. Four cycle
engines
are affected by lean mixtures, but not to the same extent. Just idling the
2-stroke
causes the engine to want to seize up if it is not run-up occasionally, even
when landing.
Exhaust gas temps are more a consideration in the air cooled Lycoming and
Continentals
than the water cooled Subaru and Rotax 912.
Carb heat is a matter which I hope someone will provide us both an answer.
Larry C. McFarland
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Morelli <billvt(at)together.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 8:02 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Bing Carbs
>
> A fellow EAA member and I were discussing Bing carbs tonight. He has an
Avid
> Flyer on ski's with a Rotax XXX (two stroke) that I have forgotten the
> number of. It has Bing 54 carbs. He (Frank) was telling me that in the
> winter (cold here in Vermont) he has to change carb jets to richen up the
> mixture. If he doesn't, his exhaust gas temp goes above the recommended
> limit.
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1 - Is that a concern for those of us running Bing carbs on the Stratus,
> Rotax 912, etc?
>
> 2 - Why do the Bing carbs not require carb heat? Or do they actually
require
> carb heat and we simply don't put it on???
>
> The information I received from Stratus and ZAC for the engine
installation
> made no mention of carb heat?
>
> Regards,
> Bill N812BM - CH601 HDS - Stratus - 2.1 flight hours, 11 landings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca> |
Bill Morelli wrote:
>
>
> A fellow EAA member and I were discussing Bing carbs tonight. He has an Avid
> Flyer on ski's with a Rotax XXX (two stroke) that I have forgotten the
> number of. It has Bing 54 carbs. He (Frank) was telling me that in the
> winter (cold here in Vermont) he has to change carb jets to richen up the
> mixture. If he doesn't, his exhaust gas temp goes above the recommended
> limit.
Yes, I had to readjust the carbs on the two-stroke incold weather.>
> My questions are:
>
> 1 - Is that a concern for those of us running Bing carbs on the Stratus,
> Rotax 912, etc?
The carb on the 912 is a different model. It has some altitude
compensation built in. The 912 also does not rely as much on fuel for
cooling.
>
> 2 - Why do the Bing carbs not require carb heat? Or do they actually require
> carb heat and we simply don't put it on???
On the 912, the carbs are usually buried back in the cowl where the air
is warmer. I measured 4 degrees. They don't get ram air either. I am
still very careful about getting the engine right up to temp before
launching.
Mike
UHS Spinners
601HDS 912S
>
> The information I received from Stratus and ZAC for the engine installation
> made no mention of carb heat?
>
> Regards,
> Bill N812BM - CH601 HDS - Stratus - 2.1 flight hours, 11 landings
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Collins <collins(at)pali.com> |
Interesting to note is that the Zac 912S FWF _does_ include
carb heat.
I did hear a reason why but I don't remember it.
Bob Collins
Sunnyvale CA
Bill Morelli wrote:
>
>
> A fellow EAA member and I were discussing Bing carbs tonight. He has an Avid
> Flyer on ski's with a Rotax XXX (two stroke) that I have forgotten the
> number of. It has Bing 54 carbs. He (Frank) was telling me that in the
> winter (cold here in Vermont) he has to change carb jets to richen up the
> mixture. If he doesn't, his exhaust gas temp goes above the recommended
> limit.
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1 - Is that a concern for those of us running Bing carbs on the Stratus,
> Rotax 912, etc?
>
> 2 - Why do the Bing carbs not require carb heat? Or do they actually require
> carb heat and we simply don't put it on???
>
> The information I received from Stratus and ZAC for the engine installation
> made no mention of carb heat?
>
> Regards,
> Bill N812BM - CH601 HDS - Stratus - 2.1 flight hours, 11 landings
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Frisby" <marslander(at)hotmail.com> |
Concerning the mixture problem with Rotax engines at altitude, a local
ultralight builder and instructor here in Alaska has developed (and I think
patented) an inflight mixture control system for them. Here's his web page,
you might have to write to him to get specifics on the mixture control. It
works well enough that he and another ultralight flyer flew over Mt.
McKinley (20320 feet) in trikes with rotax power.
Jim Frisby
http://www.arcticsparrowaircraft.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Carb heat on 912 Rotax |
Purely experience, but I've flown in all weathers and temps down to -10C
many times.
I have never had any hint of carb icing while flying in any weather
condition, probably due to the carbs on the 912 being at the rear in a
pressurized and heated airflow. HOWEVER, I was running up the aircraft two
weeks ago with O/T around -3C WITHOUT the upper cowl on, and after ten
minutes the engine started to run rough and would not accellerate. Sudden
movement of the throttle in and out cleared the problem for a minute or two
and it then came back. My conclusion from this unscientific situation and
test is that Bings will ice up, given the right conditions.
They were really bad on my Triumph TR3 many years ago!
Dave Austin 601HDS
daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dick Baner <db8(at)mtco.com> |
Bill, Bing carbs can ice up just like any venturi apparatus but they are not
normally provided with heated air because previouslythey typically ran on
aircraft not operated in icing type of weather or in snowmobiles where icing
produced less dramatic results. If you fly in the type of high humidity/cool
air conditions that promote icing you may want to consider providing heated air
or buying the electric carb heater to install on the bings. I think California
Power Systems CPS, has them in their catalogue. The business about changing
jets certainly applies as cold air is denser than warm air and thus provides
more "air" for the same amount of gas provided by the jetting and thus the
mixture is leaned resulting in higher EGT and ultimately higher CHT although
water cooling makes cylinder temps less of a problem. Dick Baner
Bill Morelli wrote:
>
> A fellow EAA member and I were discussing Bing carbs tonight. He has an Avid
> Flyer on ski's with a Rotax XXX (two stroke) that I have forgotten the
> number of. It has Bing 54 carbs. He (Frank) was telling me that in the
> winter (cold here in Vermont) he has to change carb jets to richen up the
> mixture. If he doesn't, his exhaust gas temp goes above the recommended
> limit.
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1 - Is that a concern for those of us running Bing carbs on the Stratus,
> Rotax 912, etc?
>
> 2 - Why do the Bing carbs not require carb heat? Or do they actually require
> carb heat and we simply don't put it on???
>
> The information I received from Stratus and ZAC for the engine installation
> made no mention of carb heat?
>
> Regards,
> Bill N812BM - CH601 HDS - Stratus - 2.1 flight hours, 11 landings
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chesterman Farm Equipment Inc." <inquire(at)chesterman.on.ca> |
Also Zenair designs draw hot air from inside the cowl at all times so in
a way they have permanent carb heat. I also have a snowmobile dealership
and can say that rejetting a 701 for temperature is not as necessary as
it should be because of always drawing heated air. Radiator covering is
much more common than a rejet.
dave Chesterman
Phil Raker wrote:
>
>
> No, Bill.
> Two-stroke engines are very sensitive to fuel/air
> mixture. So much so that changes in air density from
> temperature variations, and, of course, altitude
> changes, cause the need to re-jet carburetors for the
> previling conditions. This is true for almost any
> type of vehicle which uses a two-stroke engine. Most
> notable among those are ultralight aircraft and
> snowmobiles (I work for Polaris).
> Four-stro
> >
> > 1 - Is that a concern for those of us running Bing
> > carbs on the Stratus,
> > Rotax 912, etc?
> >
> > 2 - Why do the Bing carbs not require carb heat? Or
> > do they actually require
> > carb heat and we simply don't put it on???
> >
> > The information I received from Stratus and ZAC for
> > the engine installation
> > made no mention of carb heat?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bill N812BM - CH601 HDS - Stratus - 2.1 flight
> > hours, 11 landings
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
--
Chesterman Farm Equipment Inc.
PO Box 572, Tillsonburg, ON N4G 4J1
TEL (519) 842-5977 FAX (519) 842-9228
http://www.chesterman.on.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | charles.long(at)gm.com |
| Subject: | Bearing Material for Landing Gear |
There has been some discussion of suitable materials for landing gear
bearings. Allison's has had good success with a material called Aurum JCF3030
manufacured by Mitsui Chemicals. The local rep is Chris Chapman at Allegany
Plastics, phone number 412-741-4416. This material needs to be molded first
into a puck shape. It can then be machined to the proper dimensions. Aurum
has very good wear properties and an expansion rate similar to steel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "P. Owens" <powens(at)inwave.com> |
Dear Phil,
I am not an expert on the Rotax but may I pass along some two cycle
experience I have had with a Bultaco motorcycle which may relate to your
problem as well. When I initially purchased the bike in 1969 the
manufacturer recommended a specific type of oil which I used for about a
year. I found the engine difficult to start and had the usual smoke
associated with two stroke engines. Although it ran fine once started I
wan unable to kick start it. I was introduced to AMSOIL 2 Cycle oil
which was recomended to blend at between 50:1 and 100:1 opposed to the
manufacturers 32:1. With that simple change I have been able to kick
start the engine with the first or second kick and have noted a
significant increase in performance and NO SMOKE. I still have the bike
today and have yet to overhaul the engine. I have been very satisfied
with this product and company and if you wish additional information
please let me know direct and I will mail you info. I sincerely hope
this will be of some assistance to you.
Phil Owens CH-801 Builder
N84349
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Ingram" <jimingerman1(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 801 Wing Lessons Learned Summary |
Sarcasm Alert ;>)
heres a site you might want to visit
www.capslockoff.com
re.
"COULDN'T YOU HAVE SENT THAT DIRECTLY TO DAVE ?????"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bearing Material for Landing Gear |
I used UHMWP for my nose gear bearings, main gear bearings and gear slides
as did several other builders. Wouldn't you know now that I am finished
building I would come across a product that would have probably been better.
In the McMaster-Carr catalog they sell Oil Impregnated UHMWP! Says that it
is self lubricating and can be used for chain guides or similar
applications. Probably would have been nice to use.
Regards,
Bill - N812BM - HDS - Stratus - Flight time 5.1 - Landings 14
>There has been some discussion of suitable materials for landing gear
>bearings. Allison's has had good success with a material called Aurum
JCF3030
>manufacured by Mitsui Chemicals. The local rep is Chris Chapman at
Allegany
>Plastics, phone number 412-741-4416. This material needs to be molded
first
>into a puck shape. It can then be machined to the proper dimensions.
Aurum
>has very good wear properties and an expansion rate similar to steel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Slaughter <mslaughter(at)interhop.net> |
Hi Guys,
Here's my take on the carb heat question with the 912 in
the 601.
Mike Fothergill and I have nearly 2000 hours of flying
time between our two aircraft, and we have discussed the carb ice/need
for carb heat question during many, many hangar flying (read beer) sessions.
Although we frequently fly together in the same air
conditions, we also forge ahead on our own singular, long (sometimes 1000
plus miles) cross-countries. This provides us with a fair amount of real
time been-there-done-that-flying data. Neither of us, in all ranges of
temps and humidity-including the carb ice ideal range- have ever had a
cough in the 912.
Mike F. mentioned in a previous post that he did a
temperature differential experiment and compared outside air temp vs. air
temp at the carb intake inside the cowl. He found the air at the carb
intake area measured about 4C difference to the OAT.
We came to the conclusion that as long as you stick to
the Zenair cowl design, then the higher air temp at the carb intake is
essentially feeding the carbs pre-heated air all the time-thus precluding
the need for carb heat.
During the final paper work required to register the
aircraft in Canada as an amatuer-built (experimental in the US), we were
required to provide a letter from Zenair stating that carb heat was not
required on the 601 series, if the aircraft was built to Zenair specs.
We have long realized that feeding outside air at cooler
temps to the carbs would improve engine performence-possibly to a
considersable extent in some conditions-but just haven't got around to
bashing aluminum (Mike F. calls it "tin-bashing") and forming the
neccesary channels and baffling to feed outside air to the carbs. Then, of
course, we would need to make the switch box to feed warm air for carb
heat from the muffler shroud, and retrofit the control on the instrument
panel....and so on, and so on....
The question becomes, how much of a performance
increase would you see compared to the trouble of making the conversion to
outside air and carb heat? And, is that increase worth the worry of
remembering to applying carb heat every 15 mins?
Cheers,
Mike S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I did it !!!!!!!! |
>N812BM made it's first flight.
Hey Bill,
Holy cow! You've made 14 landings and I haven't said,"WOW,
congratulations!" yet.
As you may have gathered, fate has thrown me a little curve in the form of
Hodgkin's disease. It's a treatable form and I have an airplane to finish
so I will get through this, it'll just take a year longer. Doctors say it's
very treatable form and we underwent first chemo yesterday. Feeling quite
good
today and looking forward to the "bald" look.
Please copy anything you send to Fred to me, I've flying vicariously through
you and it's a hoot. Loved the pixs of the mountain from 6000. I may not
get back to every message, but they keep my spirits up.
Keep a close eye on that canopy mechanism as I feel a sense of
responsibility in that. Your comments are educational.
Congrats again Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I did it !!!!!!!! |
>N812BM made it's first flight.
Hey Bill,
Holy cow! You've made 14 landings and I haven't added my congratulations.
As you may have figured out, nature has thrown me a curve in the form of
Hodgkin's disease. The docs say it's a treatable form, and since I have an
airplane to finish, we'll get through this; will just take a year longer.
Please keep me copied with everything you send Fred; I flying vicariously
through you and it's a hoot.
Loved the 6000 foot pixs.
Keep a close eye on the canopy as I feel some responsibility here. Your
comments will be educational here. I bet it seal a WHOLE lot better than
ZAC's design in cold Vermont weather.
Congrats again, Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff(at)email.msn.com> |
List,
Very sorry as those last two messages were intended for Bill and in a bit of
confusion I sent to everyone. Mea culpa, sorry.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joe mock <airplane_04282(at)yahoo.com> |
I tried to send this out earlier today, but I had some
problems, so will try again. If it shows up
twice-SORRY!!----- After last nights mail, "Joe"
has decided to leave this site as there are so many
people out there who suffer from "CLINTONitis" (that
is- "the rules don't apply to me"). Matt Dralle has
gone through a lot of hard work and spends many hours
maintaining his site, only to have it abused, even
though he prints the rules about once a month. "Joe"
knows there are a lot of sincere builders out there
who are looking for some good constructive
information--to those, "Joe" wants to wish you the
best of luck and "happy building". Also "Joe realizes
that the few individuals who abuse this site have done
as much to hurt homebuilding as this site has to help
it out. Just check around and see how many people
have dropped off. I can't help but wonder if ZAC
would recommend this site on their 'zenithair' web
page if they monitored this site to see all that goes
on. I did try to leave the site a week ago, but I hit
the wrong key (I guess). I will leave the site no
later than 1 Feb 01. Again, to the sincere folks
out there, I wish you the best of luck!! Happy
Building- goodbye-- "Joe"
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Danielson" <steved(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | 701 Trailing edge rivets for slats, wing, and flaperon, need |
bigger size
I am about to close out my right slat, and I have a question about what size
rivets to use on the upper trailing edge. The plans call for AN470A3-3 which
is a 3/32 soft solid rivet. The problem is that some of the holes are
slightly oversized at A4 size (1/8) due to a repair in progress. What is the
correct size of soft solid rivet to get?
Is it AN470A4-3? The 4 for 4/32 diameter?
Besides the normal skins that are joined by these rivets (.016 to .025), in
one section I am adding an extra strip of .016 for a repair, so the rivet
would be joining this: (.025 to .016 to .016). For that section should I go
up to -4 for the extra length on the rivet?
Thanks to all rivet guru's...
Steve Danielson
http://home.nc.rr.com/danielson/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Latimer" <ljm10587(at)qwest.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Collins" <collins(at)pali.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bing Carbs
>
> Interesting to note is that the Zac 912S FWF _does_ include
> carb heat.
> I did hear a reason why but I don't remember it.
>
> Bob Collins
> Sunnyvale CA
I believe the reason that the ZAC 912S FWF kit includes carb is that the
912S actually draws its carb air from outside the aircraft. This is
consistent with the other inputs on carb icing.
Jerry Latimer
601HDS rear fuse complete.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Trailing edge rivets for slats, wing, and flaperon, |
need bigger size
My experience with solid rivets is quite limited
(limited to building the spars and the aileron
bellcranks).
About the rivet style... the AN470A series are the
soft rivets (tensile strenght of 16,000 psi), while
the AN470AD are stronger (tensile strenght of 38,000
psi).
To determine adequate rivet length, install a rivet
and check that it extends 1.5 times its diameter. An
A3 rivet needs to extend 9/64" beyond the grip lenght.
An A4 rivet needs to extend 3/16" beyond the grip
length. The head needs to be formed to 1.5 times the
diameter of the rivet (in diameter) and .5 times the
diameter in thickness.
So, it appears that you do need the A4-4. Not because
of added 0.016", but rather because of increased rivet
diameter (you need a rivet that is .2445" long).
Michel
--- Steve Danielson wrote:
>
>
> I am about to close out my right slat, and I have a
> question about what size
> rivets to use on the upper trailing edge. The plans
> call for AN470A3-3 which
> is a 3/32 soft solid rivet. The problem is that some
> of the holes are
> slightly oversized at A4 size (1/8) due to a repair
> in progress. What is the
> correct size of soft solid rivet to get?
>
> Is it AN470A4-3? The 4 for 4/32 diameter?
>
> Besides the normal skins that are joined by these
> rivets (.016 to .025), in
> one section I am adding an extra strip of .016 for a
> repair, so the rivet
> would be joining this: (.025 to .016 to .016). For
> that section should I go
> up to -4 for the extra length on the rivet?
>
> Thanks to all rivet guru's...
>
> Steve Danielson
> http://home.nc.rr.com/danielson/
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Tanner" <vk3auu(at)sympac.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Beefed up bearings? |
My elevator bearings are showing no sign of wear after 150 hours. (Steel pin
inside aluminium plate as per CH701 plans)
David Tanner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Liming" <gary(at)liming.org>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 5:34 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Beefed up bearings?
>
>
> On the 801, and I would be willing to bet on the 701 and even the 601 as
> well, the elevator is hinged with steel pins into an aluminum hinge
> bracket. I have read that one of the more serious places for wear after a
> few hundred hours is where steel rides against aluminum.
>
> My questions for the esteemed list members are:
>
> 1. Does this really matter?
>
> 2. Anyone used any kind of bushing on these places, and if so, what was
> used and the source?
>
> 3. On the 801, there is a little horizontal play that one of our list
> members filled with a nylon washer. Are there other places in any of the
> kits where this is also appropriate?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary Liming
> 801 builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Jensen <jensenm(at)jps.net> |
To any interested.
Just picked up my Jabiru 3300 engine and firewall forward kit. Mark
Sarkowsky asked me to let any one interested to know that he has a 601
FWF kit in stock and a Prince prop 58 x 48 for a 601 w/3300 engine.
Jerry Jensen
601HDS
tail feathers
outer wings
80% fuselage done
car out of garage and engine in
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Jensen <jensenm(at)jps.net> |
Forgot to include email address
it is mark(at)jabiruaircraft.com
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Jabiru
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:10:42 -0800
From: Jerry Jensen <jensenm(at)jps.net>
To any interested.
Just picked up my Jabiru 3300 engine and firewall forward kit. Mark
Sarkowsky asked me to let any one interested to know that he has a 601
FWF kit in stock and a Prince prop 58 x 48 for a 601 w/3300 engine.
Jerry Jensen
601HDS
tail feathers
outer wings
80% fuselage done
car out of garage and engine in
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fhulen" <fhulen(at)gabs.net> |
Mark
> Sarkowsky asked me to let any one interested to know that he has a 601
> FWF kit in stock and a Prince prop 58 x 48 for a 601 w/3300 engine.
++ I mentioned it to a friend of mine, he wants to know how much it will
cost?
Fred
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Jensen <jensenm(at)jps.net> |
Fred, Your or your friend should contact Mark for prices.
mark(at)jabiruaircraft.com
Jerry Jensen
>
>
> ++ I mentioned it to a friend of mine, he wants to know how much it will
> cost?
> Fred
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Mileski <kmileski(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | 701 Trim Tab hinge riveting |
Hi folks,
Another quick question for builders who have installed a trim tab while
building their elevator:
The trim kit instructs (and I use that word loosely) the builder to
rivet the trim tab hinge to the elevator trailing edge using A4 rivets
of pitch 70. Elevlator plans call for the trailing edge to be riveted
using 3/32" soft rivets of pitch 40. I'm wondering what the best way is
to rivet the trailing edge together where the trim tab is attached.
1/8" soft rivets (of appropriate grip)? Avex pulled A4?
As an aside, I've often wondered: Are the soft rivets used in the
trailing edges because of their relative higher strength compared to
pulled rivets, their lower profile, a combination of these, or an
entirely different reason?
Inquiring minds wanna know..couldn't find an answer to the trim tab
question in the archives.
Thank you,
Bill Mileski
Middletown, Rhode Island
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rudder upper bearing/tail horn question |
Thread-Topic: Zenith-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 01/27/01
Thread-Index: AcCJA1XGIRAN9xuoQu6w8goOh/G6jAAWJcXt
| From: | "Killion, Patrick" <pkillion(at)vitalz.com> |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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd(at)tstar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Trim Tab hinge riveting |
Bill,
I used Axex A4 rivets to hold both the trailing edge and the hinge (70
pitch), and used the solid 3/32 for the rest of the trailing edge (40
pitch). I suspect the solids are used because they are a lot cheaper.
Beware of the soft solid rivets with a small dimple on the head, they are
not soft but hard and I got several with my 701 kit.
Chuck D.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Mileski <kmileski(at)attglobal.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 12:49 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Trim Tab hinge riveting
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Another quick question for builders who have installed a trim tab while
> building their elevator:
> The trim kit instructs (and I use that word loosely) the builder to
> rivet the trim tab hinge to the elevator trailing edge using A4 rivets
> of pitch 70. Elevlator plans call for the trailing edge to be riveted
> using 3/32" soft rivets of pitch 40. I'm wondering what the best way is
> to rivet the trailing edge together where the trim tab is attached.
> 1/8" soft rivets (of appropriate grip)? Avex pulled A4?
>
> As an aside, I've often wondered: Are the soft rivets used in the
> trailing edges because of their relative higher strength compared to
> pulled rivets, their lower profile, a combination of these, or an
> entirely different reason?
>
> Inquiring minds wanna know..couldn't find an answer to the trim tab
> question in the archives.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Bill Mileski
> Middletown, Rhode Island
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mounting Stabilizer |
Hi lIst,
In the past I have read many posts regarding mounting the stabilizer and the
distance from the leading edge of the stabilizer to th rear top bulk head.
Can any of you out thive give measurements for how far your distance is in
this location. I have read anywhere from"almost touching" to as much as a
centimeter or so? IS there any consensus on this topic?
Also on the same vane.....What are some methods that people used to ensure
that the stabilizer was mounted "sqaure" the the center wing "Z" I have
several ideas some of which I think suck. LOL
Anyway, As always thanks for everyones help in advance.
Steve
PS This years Superbowl Pick is Ravens 17, Giants 10. Since I started
building my plane I have yet to miss one......Maybe that is a sign!
Hopefully be able to fly to next years!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brook" <walruss(at)optushome.com.au> |
| Subject: | 701 Trim Tab hinge riveting |
well if it isn't my good friend bill.
Hey bill, How is the plane building caper treating you.
I went for the A4 pulled rivets on the elevator trim tab hinges. The
trailing edge soft rivets are great. I would thing that they are used
because of the low profile if you do them right. I have a LOT left over. and
I've finished all my trailing edges. Although I'm told they are or can be
used in the doors a bit. I'm at 490 hours at the moment and making the push
to 500. Motivation is hard to come by. I'll be putting both fuselages
together this week, as in joinging the rear fuselage and the forward fuse
together.
exciting stuff.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Mileski
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 6:49 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Trim Tab hinge riveting
Hi folks,
Another quick question for builders who have installed a trim tab while
building their elevator:
The trim kit instructs (and I use that word loosely) the builder to
rivet the trim tab hinge to the elevator trailing edge using A4 rivets
of pitch 70. Elevlator plans call for the trailing edge to be riveted
using 3/32" soft rivets of pitch 40. I'm wondering what the best way is
to rivet the trailing edge together where the trim tab is attached.
1/8" soft rivets (of appropriate grip)? Avex pulled A4?
As an aside, I've often wondered: Are the soft rivets used in the
trailing edges because of their relative higher strength compared to
pulled rivets, their lower profile, a combination of these, or an
entirely different reason?
Inquiring minds wanna know..couldn't find an answer to the trim tab
question in the archives.
Thank you,
Bill Mileski
Middletown, Rhode Island
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Green" <jegreen(at)cdc.net> |
| Subject: | Trimming sheet metal |
Each of the fuselage skins on the 801 requires trimming on 3 or 4 sides.
I've been using Wiss sheers to make a rough cut then a final cut. Then I've
been filing the edge smooth and straight. The final result is good, but it
takes a lot of work.
Does anyone have a better and/or quicker way to do this?
Jeff Green
CH-801. Tail section done, working on fuselage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming sheet metal |
My preferred approach is with a knife. I clamp the
sheet with a straight edge and I mark the sheet with a
knife a few times. Then, when I bend the sheet, it
simply breaks appart. Smoothering of the cut is
required (with file, sand paper and scotch brite).
See some pictures....
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601/images/powing15.jpg
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601/images/p6t3f.jpg
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601/images/pmiscpart2.jpg
With this approach, the cut is very nice.
With scissors, it may be that I do not have a good
technique, but there are always marks that remain
showing where I was squeezing the scissors.
Michel
--- Jeff Green wrote:
>
>
> Each of the fuselage skins on the 801 requires
> trimming on 3 or 4 sides.
> I've been using Wiss sheers to make a rough cut then
> a final cut. Then I've
> been filing the edge smooth and straight. The final
> result is good, but it
> takes a lot of work.
>
> Does anyone have a better and/or quicker way to do
> this?
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming sheet metal |
Jeff,
I'd strongly suggest an air shear for less than $50.00 from Harbor
Freight. It will allow you
to follow an ink marker line on it's trace edge from a straight edge. Then
you use the file for
the last .005 for straightness. The Weiss shears are good for small parts,
aileron ribs etc.
A better process I've not yet tried is the router with a carbide tip and a
guide edge. Then you
only need the debur tool to break a sharp edge. I've been using my air
shear for a year and
have no reservations about the straight and flat cuts it makes. Best bang
for the buck.
Larry C. McFarland
I'm bending nose skins for a scratch-built 601 HDS to fit wing ribs, then on
to welding tanks
and 2 years to go.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Green <jegreen(at)cdc.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 8:31 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Trimming sheet metal
>
> Each of the fuselage skins on the 801 requires trimming on 3 or 4 sides.
> I've been using Wiss sheers to make a rough cut then a final cut. Then
I've
> been filing the edge smooth and straight. The final result is good, but it
> takes a lot of work.
>
> Does anyone have a better and/or quicker way to do this?
>
> Jeff Green
> CH-801. Tail section done, working on fuselage.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming sheet metal |
I have tried it with a router also (for the spar
webs). I obtained very good and precise result, but
it was not exactly quick (lots of measurements, fixing
metal and straight edge...)
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601/chwspars.htm
I think that for more casual cuts, the knife approach
is faster and very good. For the spar web, the router
approach allows to meet the .5mm tolerance quite
easily once everything is fixed in position.
Michel
--- Larry McFarland wrote:
> A better process I've not yet tried is the router
> with a carbide tip and a
> guide edge. Then you
> only need the debur tool to break a sharp edge.
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Press for bending nose skins... |
I am done with the press I built to bend the nose
skins of my 601 HD and I would like to make it
available to any builder that would like to use it.
Because of its size (of the press), this offer targets
the builders around Montreal area.
The steel tube and wood channel (to form the skin) are
not included as they were borrowed from a friend. But
I can explain what they are.
For a picture of the press, go to:
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601/images/powing20.jpg
Seen on:
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601/chowings2.htm
oh... Shipping not included
Michel
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tom tiedman" <ttiedman(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming sheet metal |
I prefer the offset head style of Wiss hand shears as you can make very long
cuts on very large parts much more easily than you can with the regular
straight head style Wiss hand shears. The metal being cut just keeps on
feeding right past the offset head with no problems. The biggest, thickest
part I've cut out with them comfortably was the .040 center spar web. They
will cut .063 also, but it is quite a chore and a real hand-killer! My
offset head Wiss shears cost me $13.00 and can be found at any home supply
or hardware store. You have to file and sand the edges after cutting with
them, as their cutting edges are slightly serrated for easy cutting. Tom
601HD
(worried for the past few weeks about mistakenly riveting inboard right
wing rib at 150mm instead of 130mm. Still don't know how that happened! I've
been religiously following the "measure twice, cut once" rule from the
start, only its been more like measure 10 times and cut once. Been racking
my brain for a solution, and thought I might end up having to rebuild the
entire right wing, but then it finally dawned on me that I'll just mount the
inboard left wing rib at 150mm also. That should keep the rivet lines on the
skins identically spaced on both wings anyway... and so it goes)!
>From: Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Trimming sheet metal
>Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:11:56 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>I have tried it with a router also (for the spar
>webs). I obtained very good and precise result, but
>it was not exactly quick (lots of measurements, fixing
>metal and straight edge...)
>
>http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601/chwspars.htm
>
>I think that for more casual cuts, the knife approach
>is faster and very good. For the spar web, the router
>approach allows to meet the .5mm tolerance quite
>easily once everything is fixed in position.
>
>Michel
>
>--- Larry McFarland wrote:
> > A better process I've not yet tried is the router
> > with a carbide tip and a
> > guide edge. Then you
> > only need the debur tool to break a sharp edge.
>
>
>=====
>----------------------------
>Michel Therrien CH601-HD
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
> http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601
>
>Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
>http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Norris <rnorris4(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting Stabilizer |
Mine is almost touching, about 2-3mm. To square the HS to center wing, I
measured from outboard trailing edge of rear wing spar to outboard
leading edge of HS. After drilling holes, about 1mm difference left to
right. For level, I leveled center wing spar, then HS to match.
Rob Norris
No progress since the baby arrived, but trying to get there.
STEFREE(at)aol.com wrote:
> In the past I have read many posts regarding mounting the stabilizer and the
> distance from the leading edge of the stabilizer to th rear top bulk head.
> Can any of you out thive give measurements for how far your distance is in
> this location. I have read anywhere from"almost touching" to as much as a
> centimeter or so? IS there any consensus on this topic?
>
> Also on the same vane.....What are some methods that people used to ensure
> that the stabilizer was mounted "sqaure" the the center wing "Z" I have
> several ideas some of which I think suck. LOL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Ferguson" <pfergus2(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Anyone flying a Jabiru 3300 yet ? |
Hi folks- I am interested in the Jabiru 3300 for my 601 HDS. Has anyone
flown one yet and what are the performance figures on this? Has the
distributor been easy to work with ( In the USA ) and did the FWF kit
work "fit" as planned? Any help at this time would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Peter Ferguson
601 HDS TD with 68 3/8% done and 52% to go!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matthew Mucker" <mmucker(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | Trimming sheet metal |
Larry,
What kind of volume do you get from your air compressor? Have you found
that to be adequate? I'm looking at compressors and don't know how much I
need. I know the riveter won't take much air, but I keep wondering about
those air shears.
-Matt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry
> McFarland
> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 9:08 PM
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Trimming sheet metal
>
>
>
>
> Jeff,
> I'd strongly suggest an air shear for less than $50.00 from Harbor
> Freight. It will allow you
> to follow an ink marker line on it's trace edge from a straight
> edge. Then
> you use the file for
> the last .005 for straightness. The Weiss shears are good for
> small parts,
> aileron ribs etc.
> A better process I've not yet tried is the router with a carbide tip and a
> guide edge. Then you
> only need the debur tool to break a sharp edge. I've been using my air
> shear for a year and
> have no reservations about the straight and flat cuts it makes.
> Best bang
> for the buck.
> Larry C. McFarland
> I'm bending nose skins for a scratch-built 601 HDS to fit wing
> ribs, then on
> to welding tanks
> and 2 years to go.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Green <jegreen(at)cdc.net>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 8:31 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Trimming sheet metal
>
>
> >
> > Each of the fuselage skins on the 801 requires trimming on 3 or 4 sides.
> > I've been using Wiss sheers to make a rough cut then a final cut. Then
> I've
> > been filing the edge smooth and straight. The final result is
> good, but it
> > takes a lot of work.
> >
> > Does anyone have a better and/or quicker way to do this?
> >
> > Jeff Green
> > CH-801. Tail section done, working on fuselage.
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | charles.long(at)gm.com |
| Subject: | Aerodynamics Simulation |
Have been working on an aerodynamics simulation for the HDS the last month
or so. It's just about ready to go. Waiting for some feedback from ZAC.
Thanks to Peter Chapman for his helpful suggestions. This simulation can be of
great value in selecting Engine and Prop combinations.
All that's left to do is check the accuracy of the calculations. For
those of you already flying, could you please provide the following information
on your aircrafts performance. It would be very helpful. Will provide the
completed spreadsheet to those who are interested. Thanks for your help in
advance!
Empty Weight - lbs:
Test Weight - lbs:
Test Altitude, MSL - ft:
Engine Model:
Max Rated Power - hp:
Max Ground Speed (average of two runs in opposite directions to factor
out wind) - mph:
Max Climb Rate @90mph IAS - ft/min:
Engine Idle Sink Rate @80mph IAS - mph:
Any info on drag related items would also be helpful
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming sheet metal |
Matt,
I bought a 6.5 HP-60 Gal -2 cyl vertical tank unit for the garage and
put it on casters for cleaning. The air shear cannot get ahead of it and
I think any compressor that's set to 90 psi and offers NLT 4 SCFM would do.
The shear will cut two lengths of .025, 8' long before kicking in to refill
at
the 90 psi level.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew Mucker <mmucker(at)airmail.net>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 9:56 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Trimming sheet metal
>
> Larry,
>
> What kind of volume do you get from your air compressor? Have you found
> that to be adequate? I'm looking at compressors and don't know how much I
> need. I know the riveter won't take much air, but I keep wondering about
> those air shears.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brook" <walruss(at)optushome.com.au> |
| Subject: | Trimming sheet metal |
my experiience is that a 13CFM compressor is about the right size that you
want. If you want to do any spray painting of your machine you will need
this as a minimum. You want to have a large reciever tank on your compressor
as well. It will run much less frequently and for a shorter duration thus
allowing you to spend more time in peace, trying to figure out what the hell
the plans mean.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matthew
Mucker
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 3:57 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Trimming sheet metal
Larry,
What kind of volume do you get from your air compressor? Have you found
that to be adequate? I'm looking at compressors and don't know how much I
need. I know the riveter won't take much air, but I keep wondering about
those air shears.
-Matt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry
> McFarland
> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 9:08 PM
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Trimming sheet metal
>
>
>
>
> Jeff,
> I'd strongly suggest an air shear for less than $50.00 from Harbor
> Freight. It will allow you
> to follow an ink marker line on it's trace edge from a straight
> edge. Then
> you use the file for
> the last .005 for straightness. The Weiss shears are good for
> small parts,
> aileron ribs etc.
> A better process I've not yet tried is the router with a carbide tip and a
> guide edge. Then you
> only need the debur tool to break a sharp edge. I've been using my air
> shear for a year and
> have no reservations about the straight and flat cuts it makes.
> Best bang
> for the buck.
> Larry C. McFarland
> I'm bending nose skins for a scratch-built 601 HDS to fit wing
> ribs, then on
> to welding tanks
> and 2 years to go.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Green <jegreen(at)cdc.net>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 8:31 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Trimming sheet metal
>
>
> >
> > Each of the fuselage skins on the 801 requires trimming on 3 or 4 sides.
> > I've been using Wiss sheers to make a rough cut then a final cut. Then
> I've
> > been filing the edge smooth and straight. The final result is
> good, but it
> > takes a lot of work.
> >
> > Does anyone have a better and/or quicker way to do this?
> >
> > Jeff Green
> > CH-801. Tail section done, working on fuselage.
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Frisby" <marslander(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming sheet metal |
Larry,
You mentioned "The air shear ..."
I've searched the archive, and can't seem to find anything else about this
tool. Could you help me track down a source?
Thanks
Jim Frisby
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming sheet metal |
Jim Frisby wrote:
>
> Larry,
> You mentioned "The air shear ..."
> I've searched the archive, and can't seem to find anything else about this
> tool. Could you help me track down a source?
> Thanks
> Jim Frisby
>
Hey Jim,
Harbor Freight....Pistol Grip or Straight: $49.95(Free
Shipping)......1-800-423-2567 ( http://www.harborfreight.com )
Good Luck
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Newell" <anewell(at)canuck.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fogging canopy |
Fred:
I installed defrost vents in my 601 and I'm glad that I did. The set up is
very much like a car. I have a heater box that hold a radiator 9actually
it's an oil cooler rad but plumbed to my engine cooling system. The box
has two outlets that go to two defrost vents and two flaps that direct air
to the cockpit foot area. A panel mounted cable control opens the foot
vents and closes the defrost vents via butterfly type valves in the
outlets. Air is supplied by two 12 volt fans. I can run one or both fans
at three different speed settings. I have the canopy frost over in the
winter until the engine warms up but then it clears quickly. I once ran
into freezing drizzel while flying a Cherokee in the circuit and had a
really hard time seeing to land so I made sure that I had a good source of
warm air for the canopy in my HDS.
Regards,
Alan Newell, Calgary, Alberta, Canada
----------
> From: fhulen <fhulen(at)gabs.net>
> To: Zenith List
> Subject: Zenith-List: Fogging canopy
> Date: January 23, 2001 7:18 PM
>
>
> In Bill's recent "I did it" posting about his first flight, he mentions
that
> his canopy fogged up, and that he turned on the exhaust fan and it
cleared
> right up. In one of the aviation magazines that I receive it listed a
"Top
> 12 things" checklist of things that they thought should be included in
every
> instrument panel design. A "defrost vent" on the front screen was on
that
> list. This brings forth a question that I had been meaning to post. Do
any
> of you have this, what's your experience, and of those of you that don't
> have this vent, have you run into times when the front canopy fogged up
to a
> point that you needed or wished that you had this mentioned vent?
> Thanks
> Fred Getting close to hanging the 3300 engine....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Davis" <jd(at)lri.sjhc.london.on.ca> |
| Subject: | Ontario --> Oshkosh route suggestions |
Greetings...
I am starting to organize a flight of several advanced ultra-light
aircraft from London, ON, CA to Oshkosh, WI this summer. Not having
flown there before, I would like to hear any suggestions regarding route,
friendly airfields along the way, border crossing, etc. We plan to camp
overnight at least once, more likely, twice, making the final hop to
Wittman an easy one. We need to avoid built-up areas (ie., cities like
Detroit) and probably most controlled airspace.
I would especially like to hear from one of the Challenger drivers who
made to trip last year (and, incidentally, thank them for pioneering the
recent changes in regulations which now allow ULA's with appropriately
licensed pilots to cross over into the US). I currently have the Detroit
and Chicago sectionals. What is the American equivalent of our Flying
Farmers? That would be a good resource for us. Keep in mind that we cruise
at about 65 Kts, have about 3 hours of usable [auto] fuel, prefer grass to
asphalt. We plan on having ground support, as well, a radio/gps equipped
van.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions/opinions/ideas.
--
Regards, J.
C-IGGY, CH701, ~100 hrs.
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp_sci) | email: jd(at)uwo.ca |
| SysMgr, research programmer | voice: (519) 646 6100 x64166 |
| Lawson Research Institute | fax: (519) 646 6135 |
| London, Ontario | lriweb.sjhc.london.on.ca/~jd |
The other day, I was walking my dog around my building...on the ledge. Some
people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths.
--- Steven Wright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Ontario --> Oshkosh route suggestions |
Hi J;
Having done this flight in a Merlin in 91, I can vouch for the VFR route
around Chicago shown on the Chicago VTA chart. We flew into St Clair
County (Port Huron) to clear customs after filing flight plan from
Sarnia. Overnighted just east of Chicago, then flew into the VFR circuit
at Oshkosh. For this ,you need radio. If no radio, you have to go into
UL circuit at less than 500 ft. Scary!
Route from Baldwin, Ont. was Stratford, Sarnia, Port Huron(St Clair
CO.), Griffith, East Troy and Oshkosh. There are lots of airports to
stop at depending on your range limits. Make sure that you have lots of
fuel going into Oshkosh to allow for holds.
Mike
UHS Spinners
"J. Davis" wrote:
>
>
> Greetings...
>
> I am starting to organize a flight of several advanced ultra-light
> aircraft from London, ON, CA to Oshkosh, WI this summer. Not having
> flown there before, I would like to hear any suggestions regarding route,
> friendly airfields along the way, border crossing, etc. We plan to camp
> overnight at least once, more likely, twice, making the final hop to
> Wittman an easy one. We need to avoid built-up areas (ie., cities like
> Detroit) and probably most controlled airspace.
>
> I would especially like to hear from one of the Challenger drivers who
> made to trip last year (and, incidentally, thank them for pioneering the
> recent changes in regulations which now allow ULA's with appropriately
> licensed pilots to cross over into the US). I currently have the Detroit
> and Chicago sectionals. What is the American equivalent of our Flying
> Farmers? That would be a good resource for us. Keep in mind that we cruise
> at about 65 Kts, have about 3 hours of usable [auto] fuel, prefer grass to
> asphalt. We plan on having ground support, as well, a radio/gps equipped
> van.
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions/opinions/ideas.
>
> --
> Regards, J.
> C-IGGY, CH701, ~100 hrs.
>
> | J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp_sci) | email: jd(at)uwo.ca |
> | SysMgr, research programmer | voice: (519) 646 6100 x64166 |
> | Lawson Research Institute | fax: (519) 646 6135 |
> | London, Ontario | lriweb.sjhc.london.on.ca/~jd |
>
> The other day, I was walking my dog around my building...on the ledge. Some
> people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths.
> --- Steven Wright
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fogging canopy |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <gfcorriv(at)total.net> |
on 1/29/01 10:25 PM, Alan Newell at anewell(at)canuck.com wrote:
...
> I have a heater box that hold a radiator 9actually
> it's an oil cooler rad but plumbed to my engine cooling system.
Alan, I like the concept as I imagine that the heater core is pretty small..
yes/no?... could you give me an estimate of the dimensions?
I've searched for car heater cores, but they're pretty bulky. Does the oil
cooler rad provide enough heat exchange for the cold Calgary winters?
Thanks,
Grant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dick Baner <db8(at)mtco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ontario --> Oshkosh route suggestions |
Two of the fellows in our local ultralight club flew a two place challenger to
s&f last spring and back. They went from central Illinois so their route may
not do you much good. If you want to know how to contact them by phone send me
a note off line. Dick Baner, subaru 701
"J. Davis" wrote:
>
> Greetings...
>
> I am starting to organize a flight of several advanced ultra-light
> aircraft from London, ON, CA to Oshkosh, WI this summer. Not having
> flown there before, I would like to hear any suggestions regarding route,
> friendly airfields along the way, border crossing, etc. We plan to camp
> overnight at least once, more likely, twice, making the final hop to
> Wittman an easy one. We need to avoid built-up areas (ie., cities like
> Detroit) and probably most controlled airspace.
>
> I would especially like to hear from one of the Challenger drivers who
> made to trip last year (and, incidentally, thank them for pioneering the
> recent changes in regulations which now allow ULA's with appropriately
> licensed pilots to cross over into the US). I currently have the Detroit
> and Chicago sectionals. What is the American equivalent of our Flying
> Farmers? That would be a good resource for us. Keep in mind that we cruise
> at about 65 Kts, have about 3 hours of usable [auto] fuel, prefer grass to
> asphalt. We plan on having ground support, as well, a radio/gps equipped
> van.
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions/opinions/ideas.
>
> --
> Regards, J.
> C-IGGY, CH701, ~100 hrs.
>
> | J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp_sci) | email: jd(at)uwo.ca |
> | SysMgr, research programmer | voice: (519) 646 6100 x64166 |
> | Lawson Research Institute | fax: (519) 646 6135 |
> | London, Ontario | lriweb.sjhc.london.on.ca/~jd |
>
> The other day, I was walking my dog around my building...on the ledge. Some
> people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths.
> --- Steven Wright
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Davis" <jd(at)lri.sjhc.london.on.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fogging canopy |
Here in ON, Princess Auto has a wide range of this type of heater. Pricing
varies according to size/number of fans but the one I will use someday was
~$100. Better pricing during summer months ;')
>> on 1/29/01 10:25 PM, Alan Newell at anewell(at)canuck.com wrote:
>> ...
>> > I have a heater box that hold a radiator 9actually
>> > it's an oil cooler rad but plumbed to my engine cooling system.
>>
>> Alan, I like the concept as I imagine that the heater core is pretty small..
>> yes/no?... could you give me an estimate of the dimensions?
>>
>> I've searched for car heater cores, but they're pretty bulky. Does the oil
>> cooler rad provide enough heat exchange for the cold Calgary winters?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Grant
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Regards, J.
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp_sci) | email: jd(at)uwo.ca |
| SysMgr, research programmer | voice: (519) 646 6100 x64166 |
| Lawson Research Institute | fax: (519) 646 6135 |
| London, Ontario | lriweb.sjhc.london.on.ca/~jd |
Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?
The guy who wrote that song wrote everything.
--- Steven Wright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerald Applefeld <jerryvmd(at)blazenet.net> |
I need suggestions from the list--building 601HD--in process of wiring
panel and FFW. Using Bob Nichols drawings--also an EA81--from previous
postings it seems most people put the battery behind the seats for
weight/balance. Is this the best? If so, I'll be running #1 AGW wire
from the battery contactor near the battery to the starter relay on the
engine side of the firewall. Where is the best postion to run the wire
and ground? 1.I've considered thru the rear Z under the seats and thru
the spar but means multiple holes and grommets and removing the seat pan
for access. 2. Thru side seat back support along the side fuselage
(under the top longeron doubler)-over the vertical fuselage stiffeners
to firewall. 3. Thru center armrest area-under control cables-thru
spar-between rudder pedals to firewall
Please-any suggestions--can't proceed to wire panel until this is
solved---Thanks
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help-electrical |
Jerry,
I have a Stratus Soob with two 18 ah batteries behind the passenger seat.
These batteries weight about 12 lbs each. My CG came out right on the money.
I also have 8 gallon header and 10 gallon LE tanks.
I used #4 wire from the battery to the contactor (near the battery) and then
up to the starter. I ran the cable under the upper right longeron doubler (I
have it protected with spiral wrap). I have no trouble cranking the Soob all
day with this setup. I think that #1 wire is major overkill.
Regards,
Bill - N812BM - HDS (tri)- Stratus - Flight Hours 5.9 - Landings 16
>I need suggestions from the list--building 601HD--in process of wiring
>panel and FFW. Using Bob Nichols drawings--also an EA81--from previous
>postings it seems most people put the battery behind the seats for
>weight/balance. Is this the best? If so, I'll be running #1 AGW wire
>from the battery contactor near the battery to the starter relay on the
>engine side of the firewall
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Help-electrical |
I placed my battery behind the seat because of cg problems. I used #2
welding wire as it is relatively inexpensive and contains many more strands
and has a great sheath. I also went with 16 gauge wire for all my wiring so
I could use 10 amp breakers throughout. I used 3 colors only with red - hot,
black - ground, and white - sender. Be sure to mark each wire at both ends -
really big help when chasing any future problems.
Chuck
601HDS
15 hrs
35 landings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Applefeld" <jerryvmd(at)blazenet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 4:51 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Help-electrical
>
> I need suggestions from the list--building 601HD--in process of wiring
> panel and FFW. Using Bob Nichols drawings--also an EA81--from previous
> postings it seems most people put the battery behind the seats for
> weight/balance. Is this the best? If so, I'll be running #1 AGW wire
> from the battery contactor near the battery to the starter relay on the
> engine side of the firewall. Where is the best postion to run the wire
> and ground? 1.I've considered thru the rear Z under the seats and thru
> the spar but means multiple holes and grommets and removing the seat pan
> for access. 2. Thru side seat back support along the side fuselage
> (under the top longeron doubler)-over the vertical fuselage stiffeners
> to firewall. 3. Thru center armrest area-under control cables-thru
> spar-between rudder pedals to firewall
> Please-any suggestions--can't proceed to wire panel until this is
> solved---Thanks
> Jerry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fiberglass tips on Horizontal Stabilizer |
| From: | "Tom Wood" <twood(at)ucf.k12.pa.us> |
I offer a tip on attaching the fiberglass tips. The plans do not mention
it but I epoxy a .025 strip 20mm wide on the inside of the fiberglass
tips before drilling holes for attachment to the HS. The tips are less
likely to develop cracks if the rivets pull on the aluminum rather than
the fiberglass. This procedure is recommended in the RV -4 plans. All
you need to do is rough up the fiberglass with 36 grit paper and use a two
part epoxy for an adhesive.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <wings1(at)videotron.ca> |
| Subject: | Minister's Delegates-Recreational Aviation (Canada) |
This is of interest (primarily) to Canadian builders:
http://www.md-ra.com/
Mandate of Minister's Delegates-Recreational Aviation
(MD-RA)
MD-RA is a Transport Canada external delegation of
authority program operated on behalf of
the Department of Transport. MD-RA is responsible for
amateur built aircraft only. MD-RA
inspectors perform inspections on aircraft under
construction and, upon completion, issue the
initial Special Certificate of Airworthiness and a flight
authority with certain restrictions. Once
the aircraft is complete and flying, the files are
transferred to the Department of Transport.
The site does not look complete, but there is a good deal of interesting
information there.
Cheers
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Meiste's" <meiste(at)essex1.com> |
List,
I know it's been hashed about plenty here in the past but I was just
wondering if anyone out there has found a usable substitute yet to isolate
the 16 gallon main header tank other than cork? I'm getting ready to attempt
this step and was wondering about some kind of rubber instead. From my past
experiences with cork it would seem that in 5 to 10 years it would have to
be redone.
Anyway just wondering if anyone has heard if there was anything new worth
looking at?
Kelly Meiste
601 HD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Tanner" <vk3auu(at)sympac.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Cork (again) |
I used cork floor tile, if that is not durable, I don't know what is.
David Tanner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shay King" <shaking(at)eircom.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel hose/ 701 wing tank access |
Dear List,
I'm installing my first wing tank at the moment [701 -extended range]
and I'm worried about the problem of access after the wing is closed up.
I'm using the black rubber hose supplied with the kit by CZAW. Does
anyone know the life of this hose? Does anyone have any clever ideas
about access panels to the wing tank fittings?
Regards,
Shay King.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel hose/ 701 wing tank access |
I put an access hole between the root rib and the #1 rib, offset of course,
so that I could get tools up there to change the hose and maintain the filter
screen. Don't forget to provide a doubler.
Stan L. CH701 from kit in fifth year of construction (400 hours ??**&
%$??)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich <rich(at)carol.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel hose/ 701 wing tank access |
As far as access... I'm making a 100mm x 70mm hole, big enough for my
hands to get into with a wrench. I'll then make a cover with a lip to
clip inside the skin & a quarter-turn wingnut to hold the cover in
place. So easy to get to that I can also check this as part of every
preflight.
Inspection holes slightly weaken the area so, per ZAC, whenever
inspection holes are cut into the skin another piece the same thickness
or thicker, the shape of the hole, should be riveted to the inside to
strengthen the area.
I'll have to dimple the skin & the stiffener to make nice flush rivets
so my cover will be flush.
Rich
801
Shay King wrote:
>
>
> Dear List,
> I'm installing my first wing tank at the moment [701 -extended range]
> and I'm worried about the problem of access after the wing is closed up.
> I'm using the black rubber hose supplied with the kit by CZAW. Does
> anyone know the life of this hose? Does anyone have any clever ideas
> about access panels to the wing tank fittings?
>
> Regards,
> Shay King.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt(at)mondenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel hose/ 701 wing tank access |
Shay,
I installed my wing-root skins with rivnuts. Its a five minute job to remove
them and voila you have access to the wing root area for your attach
fittings,tanks and other connections. Also saves taking the wings off to
change the windshield.
Happy flying,
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: Shay King <shaking(at)eircom.net>
Date: February 1, 2001 4:55 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel hose/ 701 wing tank access
>
>Dear List,
>I'm installing my first wing tank at the moment [701 -extended range]
>and I'm worried about the problem of access after the wing is closed up.
>I'm using the black rubber hose supplied with the kit by CZAW. Does
>anyone know the life of this hose? Does anyone have any clever ideas
>about access panels to the wing tank fittings?
>
>Regards,
>Shay King.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Ferguson" <pfergus2(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | * New Bulletin from Zenith * |
All 601 owners and builders should go to the Zenith Builders Pages on the
web and check the latest bulletin issued by Chris Heintz. It refers to the
splice plates used to join the wings to the center section. Some plates have
been drilled erroneously ( short edge margin ). This could lead to cracking
or failure of the splice joint.
Peter Ferguson
601HDS TD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel Pelletier" <pelletie1(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagrams |
Hi list,
Is anybody have wiring diagram for Vansaircraft RV'S gauge, please contact
or send by E-mail.
Regards
Daniel Pelletier
601HDS\SOOB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fernando Garzon <garzon(at)nets.com> |
| Subject: | Airlink Quick build kits |
I am looking for builders who are using Airlink quickbuild kits, particularly
for the CH 701. I am interested in a fast build of a 701 (I would probably
just buy one assembled if the FAA would let me) with a 912 S engine. I would
appreciate any info on experiences with the company, i.e. delivery time,
quality of workmanship, financial dealing etc. The variability of quality and
the bankruptcy rate in the experimental aircraft industry are both very large
so I put a lot of merit in customer experiences. Thanks, Fernando
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Tellet" <telletdl(at)erols.com> |
Perhaps I'm being premature and overly complicated with this, but I am
concerned about placement of fuel and/or baggage and center of gravity in
the 601HD. I'm not too keen on the idea of all that gas above my feet, but
I have a feeling that the wing tanks will push the CG too far aft (my
passenger and I aren't lightweights).
Has anyone considered a streamlined belly tank or belly baggage space? This
could probably be put forward of the wing locations and would still separate
the fuel from the passengers.
Any thoughts? Telling me I'm crazy is okay, you wouldn't be the first.
David Tellet, 601HD working on tail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mell" <kitplane(at)tradezone.com> |
, ,
| Subject: | Builders Neat Web Site |
Hello!
If any of you guys need/want a web site for your kitplane project or
airplane you can create one easily here and get listed with other
homebuilders:
http://www.kitplanesite.com/cgi-bin/creator/creator.cgi
It's pretty cool... check it out! :)
Mell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
I did not consider a belley tank, but I did have the
same concerns as you do. I elected to install wing
tanks. These tanks are installed in the leading edge
of the outboard wings (ahead of the spar and
compartment baggages). The baggage compartments can
still be used.
See:
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601/images/PFuel01.jpg
I estimated the CG by using the data from one of my
friend's place and making changes in weight
positioning (I plan for a heavier instrument panel
than him, more forward gas CG and lighter engine--he
uses an EA-82). In his plane, the battery is in the
rear fuselage.
so not archive
--- David Tellet wrote:
>
>
> Perhaps I'm being premature and overly complicated
> with this, but I am
> concerned about placement of fuel and/or baggage and
> center of gravity in
> the 601HD. I'm not too keen on the idea of all that
> gas above my feet, but
> I have a feeling that the wing tanks will push the
> CG too far aft (my
> passenger and I aren't lightweights).
>
> Has anyone considered a streamlined belly tank or
> belly baggage space? This
> could probably be put forward of the wing locations
> and would still separate
> the fuel from the passengers.
>
> Any thoughts? Telling me I'm crazy is okay, you
> wouldn't be the first.
>
>
> David Tellet, 601HD working on tail.
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tom tiedman" <ttiedman(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: * New Bulletin from Zenith * |
Zenith sent me a letter in the mail explaining the splice plate problem and
solutions... even offering free materials for the fix... new aluminum splice
plates (or steel, if your edge distances are too minimal). I thought that
was very nice of them to do, and you all will probably be getting the same
letter shortly if you watch your mail. This sort of thing reassures me that
I made the right choice by using 1/4" plate for all 4 splice plates, as the
specified 1/8" and 3/16" splice plates with only 11.2mm edge distance never
looked or felt quite right to me. I'm using thicker (1/8", instead of .063)
and longer rear zee splice plates also. In building from plans, I found the
proper edge distances to be very easy to obtain. I can't imagine anybody
could end up with only 6mm to 10mm of edge distance on their splice plates,
like the Zenair letter warns about. It would also be very disheartening to
think that any factory pre-drilled kit splice plates might have come from
the factory with only 6 to 10mm of edge distance on such critical parts. At
any rate, watch your mailboxes. Tom
>From: "Peter Ferguson" <pfergus2(at)tampabay.rr.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Zenith-List: * New Bulletin from Zenith *
>Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 08:12:50 -0500
>
>
>
>All 601 owners and builders should go to the Zenith Builders Pages on the
>web and check the latest bulletin issued by Chris Heintz. It refers to the
>splice plates used to join the wings to the center section. Some plates
>have
>been drilled erroneously ( short edge margin ). This could lead to cracking
>or failure of the splice joint.
>
>Peter Ferguson
>601HDS TD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tom tiedman" <ttiedman(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi David, I've been thinking about belly, or even
under-wing mounted fuel tanks similar in shape to the belly baggage pod on
the Bowers Fly-baby, that could be jettisoned in an emergency several
seconds before touchdown, so I could recover them from the same field I
crash-land in. I suppose wing-mounting wouldn't help CG as much as the
adjustable location of a belly tank would, but either way, they all would be
dropable for minimizing any post-crash fire. Still working on wing
skeletons, so drop tanks are just a distant thought at this time, but you
are not alone in your thinking. Tom
>From: "David Tellet" <telletdl(at)erols.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Zenith-List: Drop Tank?
>Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 14:39:37 -0500
>
>
>Perhaps I'm being premature and overly complicated with this, but I am
>concerned about placement of fuel and/or baggage and center of gravity in
>the 601HD. I'm not too keen on the idea of all that gas above my feet, but
>I have a feeling that the wing tanks will push the CG too far aft (my
>passenger and I aren't lightweights).
>
>Has anyone considered a streamlined belly tank or belly baggage space?
>This
>could probably be put forward of the wing locations and would still
>separate
>the fuel from the passengers.
>
>Any thoughts? Telling me I'm crazy is okay, you wouldn't be the first.
>
>
>David Tellet, 601HD working on tail.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net> |
David Tellet wrote:
>
> Perhaps I'm being premature and overly complicated with this, but I am
> concerned about placement of fuel and/or baggage and center of gravity in
> the 601HD. I'm not too keen on the idea of all that gas above my feet, but
> I have a feeling that the wing tanks will push the CG too far aft (my
> passenger and I aren't lightweights).
>
> Has anyone considered a streamlined belly tank or belly baggage space? This
> could probably be put forward of the wing locations and would still separate
> the fuel from the passengers.
>
> Any thoughts? Telling me I'm crazy is okay, you wouldn't be the first.
>
> David Tellet, 601HD working on tail.
>
I'm thinking of designing and adding a set of drop tanks to the wings. Very
similar to what they had on the P-51D mustang's. Would look kool and give me an
extra 5 gallons each...
No, your not crazy...You show signs of intelligence. People that think should
never think they are crazy.
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net> |
| Subject: | Re: * New Bulletin from Zenith * |
WARNING!!! My kit has the splice plates that don't meet spec. !!!!!!!!!!
I went to the Zenith builders pages and printed out this latest bulletin
from Chris with regard to the splice plates.
Today was a beutiful day here albeit cold and I was ready to fly but instead
decided to check my splice plates to see if I have the described problem.
First of all, there is no way to measure them without removing them. I spent
about four hours pulling the plates and taking the measurements. I have an
HDS so my splice plates are all 1/8" thick 6061.
The bad news is that all four of my plates failed the measurement criteria.
The front plates meet the edge distance minimum of 10 mm but the sizes of
the plates are not as drawn by 2 to 3 mm. The closest any of the 3/8" holes
get to the edge on the front plates is 12 mm.
The back plates fail the edge distance measurement as well as the size
measurement. Agin the size is off by 2 to 3 mm but the 3/8" holes to edge is
NO GOOD. The closet one is a scant 8 mm from the edge!!!! The eight 3/8"
holes on the rear plates have edge distances of 10, 9.5, 9, 9.5, 9, 9, 8, 10
So according to the bulletin, I will need two new front plates made from
6061 (since the edge distance is OK) and I will need two new rear plates
made from 4130N steel since the edge distances are bad.
This aircraft was built from a kit. I took delivery on 5/22/1998 so this
problem goes back quite some time. My kit serial number is 6-3798.
I will call Nick Monday and request the new plates and I will stay grounded
until they are installed.
Regards,
Bill N812BM - HDS (tri) - Stratus - 5.9 flight hours - 16 landings
>
>All 601 owners and builders should go to the Zenith Builders Pages on the
>web and check the latest bulletin issued by Chris Heintz. It refers to the
>splice plates used to join the wings to the center section. Some plates
have
>been drilled erroneously ( short edge margin ). This could lead to cracking
>or failure of the splice joint.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net> |
"engines-list(at)matronics.com" ,
"zenith-list(at)matronics.com"
| Subject: | ACS Cable Tension Meter |
Does anyone know how to use the Aircraft Spruce Cable Tension meter.
Darn thing has no instructions....
--
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: * New Bulletin from Zenith * |
Bill Morelli wrote:
> This aircraft was built from a kit. I took delivery on 5/22/1998 so this
> problem goes back quite some time. My kit serial number is 6-3798.
> I will call Nick Monday and request the new plates and I will stay grounded
> until they are installed.
>
> Regards,
> Bill N812BM - HDS (tri) - Stratus - 5.9 flight hours - 16 landings
Has anyone found these plate to show where when they did their conditional
inspections. From the sounds of it, this could be a fleet wide problem.
That rear plate does not have the room to keep the holes in proper check...
--
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Meiste's" <meiste(at)essex1.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ACS Cable Tension Meter |
> Does anyone know how to use the Aircraft Spruce Cable Tension meter.
> Darn thing has no instructions....
++++++
Hi John,
I have the ACS cable tensionmeter CT-1 (hope that's the model you have).
Mine did come with instructions, & I'll gladly send them to you. But to get
you going it basically is operated by hooking the bottom right tab over the
cable, and then pushing on the button at the end of the spring lever. You
keep pushing on the bottom until the tab on the lower left touches the
cable. At that point you read the cable tension on the scale.
I just did this a few weeks ago on my plane. My cables seemed a little to
tight with the ZAC spec of 30 - 40 LBS. I asked Nick about this, and he is
now recommending to tension cables to only 25 - 35 LBS.
Let me know if you would like me to send you the actual instructions.
Kelly Meiste
601 HD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ACS Cable Tension Meter |
The Meiste's wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know how to use the Aircraft Spruce Cable Tension meter.
> > Darn thing has no instructions....
>
> ++++++
> Hi John,
> I have the ACS cable tensionmeter CT-1 (hope that's the model you have).
> Mine did come with instructions, & I'll gladly send them to you. But to get
> you going it basically is operated by hooking the bottom right tab over the
> cable, and then pushing on the button at the end of the spring lever. You
> keep pushing on the bottom until the tab on the lower left touches the
> cable. At that point you read the cable tension on the scale.
> I just did this a few weeks ago on my plane. My cables seemed a little to
> tight with the ZAC spec of 30 - 40 LBS. I asked Nick about this, and he is
> now recommending to tension cables to only 25 - 35 LBS.
> Let me know if you would like me to send you the actual instructions.
>
> Kelly Meiste
> 601 HD
>
Hey Kelly,
Thank you...Your instructions seem very clear and now I see how it should
work.....I'm going to give it a try in the morning.
If I have any questions I'll drop a note.....
--
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fhulen" <fhulen(at)gabs.net> |
Well..... my rear splice plates failed the 10mm minimum dimension too and
due to the position that Zenith has drilled the holes through the spar and
outer wings, the dimensions of the splice plate has to use every single
millimeter of the material size in order not to fail the measurement test.
Have any of you received the replacement parts and instructions on how we
are supposed to drill the holes to match the existing holes in the wings
spars? Looks like that would have to be a very exacting process in order to
maintain the shear pressure evenly on all bolts. For the record, my kit was
received in September of 97.
Fred (should hang the Jabiru 3300 engine within this next week)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Splice plates |
Fred,
I have not spoken to ZAC yet. I plan on calling nick first thing tomorrow
(Monday) to request new plates and instructions.
I am not sure what the drilling instructions will entail but I suspect that
we will need to use the old plates as a template and clamp them to the new
plates? The other thing I might do with the steel replacements is to have
them powder coated to prvent rust. Stainless would be nicer but I doubt ZAC
will provide plates in stainless.
What a bummer!!!!!
Bill
>Well..... my rear splice plates failed the 10mm minimum dimension too and
>due to the position that Zenith has drilled the holes through the spar and
>outer wings, the dimensions of the splice plate has to use every single
>millimeter of the material size in order not to fail the measurement test.
>Have any of you received the replacement parts and instructions on how we
>are supposed to drill the holes to match the existing holes in the wings
>spars? Looks like that would have to be a very exacting process in order
to
>maintain the shear pressure evenly on all bolts. For the record, my kit
was
>received in September of 97.
>Fred (should hang the Jabiru 3300 engine within this next week)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Meiste's" <meiste(at)essex1.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ACS Cable Tension Meter |
John ... try sliding a peace of paper between the cable and the tab on the
lower left as you push on the lever button. When I feel the paper getting
pinched between the cable & tab I know that's my reading. Seems to work a
little better than eyeballing it.
Good Luck!
Kelly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Raker <phadr2(at)yahoo.com> |
No, David. You're not crazy! I've also
considered an external fuel tank. I'm trying to
decide whether to use a "ready made" drop tank type or
a "conformal pod" of my own design (maybe similar to
the CH801 cargo pod but only for fuel). Either one
would be hung underneath the fuselage, probably
mounted to the lower longerons and would be adjustable
(a little bit) to position the CG as required. I'm
looking at about a 10-gallon capacity to augment my
standard 8-gallon firewall tank. That should give
about a 3-hour range with reserves. At 100+ knots
cruise, that'll give useful cross-country abilities.
I plan to keep and use the wing lockers for non-liquid
baggage.
Phil R.; N556P, HDS/Stratus, on wheels, too cold to
work, unheated shop in NW MN
--- David Tellet wrote:
> Has anyone considered a streamlined belly tank or
> belly baggage space?
> Any thoughts? Telling me I'm crazy is okay, you
> wouldn't be the first.
>
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fhulen" <fhulen(at)gabs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Splice plates |
> I am not sure what the drilling instructions will entail but I suspect
that
> we will need to use the old plates as a template and clamp them to the new
> plates? The other thing I might do with the steel replacements is to have
> them powder coated to prvent rust. Stainless would be nicer but I doubt
ZAC
> will provide plates in stainless.
> What a bummer!!!!!
> Bill
++ Ah.... Powder coating the steel plates, good idea. I may be wrong but
in regard to the stainless steel, I don't think it meets the same strength
as the 4130 steel.
Fred
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tom tiedman" <ttiedman(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Splice plates |
I don't think I'd be brave enough to powder coat wing splice plates. The
powder coating finishes I have seen appear to me to be similar to encasing
your parts in a "plastic-like" shell a couple of mm thick. I
don't think I'd be able to inspect the metal plates for cracks, etc. if they
were so thickly hidden from view by the powder coating. I would think that a
thin coat of any zinc-based primer on steel splice plates would be much
better for visual inspection as well as corrosion resistance... zinc being
the sacrificial lamb to corrosion that it is, the steel and aluminum
wouldn't even notice being next to each other with that zinc in between...
at least not for 40 or 50 years. Tom
>From: "fhulen" <fhulen(at)gabs.net>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Splice plates
>Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 10:45:25 -0600
>
>
> > I am not sure what the drilling instructions will entail but I suspect
>that
> > we will need to use the old plates as a template and clamp them to the
>new
> > plates? The other thing I might do with the steel replacements is to
>have
> > them powder coated to prvent rust. Stainless would be nicer but I doubt
>ZAC
> > will provide plates in stainless.
> > What a bummer!!!!!
> > Bill
>
>++ Ah.... Powder coating the steel plates, good idea. I may be wrong but
>in regard to the stainless steel, I don't think it meets the same strength
>as the 4130 steel.
>Fred
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Isaacs" <bob999(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel return line |
I hope someone can give me a little direction reguarding the fuel return
line. I am Installing a Multi-Port-Fuel-Injected engine in my Zodiac
601XL which has leading edge tanks, I'm am gravity feeding a 2gal
header/surge tank from the 3/8" tee line coupled wing tanks. I am using
a duel electric fuel pumps out of the header tank w/ 1/4" line feeding
the fuel rails.
The big question is should I have my fuel return line going back to the
header tank or teed back to the 2 leading edge tanks?
Has body worked this issue before or any susgestions would be helpfur.
Bob
ZODIAC N601XL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Raker <phadr2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Splice plates |
Fred:
It all depends on which stainless alloy you're
talking about. Some are stronger than 4130, some not.
Many are tougher, and some "stainless" alloys are not
even very corrosion resistant.
PHR; N556P, HDS/Stratus
--- fhulen wrote:
I may be wrong but
> in regard to the stainless steel, I don't think it
> meets the same strength as the 4130 steel.
> Fred
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Ingram" <jimingerman1(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line |
Save yourself a lot of hassle and run your return line to the header tank.
This is one of the (few) good things about having a header tank that you
want to take advantage of.
Jim Ingram
Yamhill, Oregon
CH801 mazda 13B working on engine conversion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Isaacs" <bob999(at)worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 9:56 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel return line
>
> I hope someone can give me a little direction reguarding the fuel return
> line. I am Installing a Multi-Port-Fuel-Injected engine in my Zodiac
> 601XL which has leading edge tanks, I'm am gravity feeding a 2gal
> header/surge tank from the 3/8" tee line coupled wing tanks. I am using
> a duel electric fuel pumps out of the header tank w/ 1/4" line feeding
> the fuel rails.
> The big question is should I have my fuel return line going back to the
> header tank or teed back to the 2 leading edge tanks?
> Has body worked this issue before or any susgestions would be helpfur.
>
> Bob
> ZODIAC N601XL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Ingram" <jimingerman1(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line |
I guess I should add that even more important than the fuel return itself
IMO is the line from the header tank to the FI pumps and on to the fuel rail
and even the rail itself. Keep this path as cool as possible. Theoretically,
if you keep this path shielded from heat well enough you dont need a retun
line.But, I'll have a return line AND well shielded fuel line on mine
regardless of theory.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ingram" <jimingerman1(at)home.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel return line
>
> Save yourself a lot of hassle and run your return line to the header tank.
> This is one of the (few) good things about having a header tank that you
> want to take advantage of.
> Jim Ingram
> Yamhill, Oregon
> CH801 mazda 13B working on engine conversion
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Isaacs" <bob999(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 9:56 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel return line
>
>
>
> >
> > I hope someone can give me a little direction reguarding the fuel return
> > line. I am Installing a Multi-Port-Fuel-Injected engine in my Zodiac
> > 601XL which has leading edge tanks, I'm am gravity feeding a 2gal
> > header/surge tank from the 3/8" tee line coupled wing tanks. I am using
> > a duel electric fuel pumps out of the header tank w/ 1/4" line feeding
> > the fuel rails.
> > The big question is should I have my fuel return line going back to the
> > header tank or teed back to the 2 leading edge tanks?
> > Has body worked this issue before or any susgestions would be helpfur.
> >
> > Bob
> > ZODIAC N601XL
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HOLCOMBE" <holcombe(at)oregonfast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Splice plates |
Corosion resistance is one thing, fatigue resistance is another. Ask the
designer.
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff & Marcia Davidson" <jdavidso(at)fcc.net> |
| Subject: | Robert Nuckolls seminar |
fyi
The AeroElectric's annual seminar on aircraft electrical
systems in George and Becki's facilities near Ft. Worth has
been scheduled for the weekend of March 24/25, 2000.
A reservation form has been posted at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/FtWorth.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fhulen" <fhulen(at)gabs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Splice plates |
Just like flying..... we need to "See and Avoid". Now that I have read the
comments about powder coating the splice plates, "I SEE", and I will "Avoid"
that as a potentual problem. I'll stick with the suggestion to stay with
the 4130 steel and protect it with primer. The good advice from this group
never ceases to amaze me.
Thanks
Fred
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dick Baner <db8(at)mtco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line |
Bob, I am in the midst of working out this exact problem so my theories are
untested. At the moment I am set up to return to one of the wing tanks and let
the two tanks level each other but am now concerned after discussion on this
list that the leveling function will not work. The only solution seems to be
what you suggest. In my case I will have to add a tank , one or two gallon, in
the fuselage to put fuel into from the wing tanks and then pump the return into
it. Everyone I have checked this out with says that the header tank will handle
the job with little problem with air bubbles from the return. One thing
different is that I was told that the fuel rails will need 3/8 line even though
the return is large enough at 5/16. Dick Baner
Robert Isaacs wrote:
>
> I hope someone can give me a little direction reguarding the fuel return
> line. I am Installing a Multi-Port-Fuel-Injected engine in my Zodiac
> 601XL which has leading edge tanks, I'm am gravity feeding a 2gal
> header/surge tank from the 3/8" tee line coupled wing tanks. I am using
> a duel electric fuel pumps out of the header tank w/ 1/4" line feeding
> the fuel rails.
> The big question is should I have my fuel return line going back to the
> header tank or teed back to the 2 leading edge tanks?
> Has body worked this issue before or any susgestions would be helpfur.
>
> Bob
> ZODIAC N601XL
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Rear Fuselage question... |
I thought it would be an easy thing to attach 6F1-1,
the fuselage bottom skin, and 6F1-2, the end skin
together today...
Well, when I positioned them as shown in the plans, I
checked the alignment and to my surprise, the line is
not straight on each side. I did some calculations
and found that the angle inside the end skin is of
9.517 degrees while the same angle on the main bottom
skin is 11 degrees.
If we extend a line from the edge of bottom skin on
the end skin, the natural line would be 7mm inside the
end skin (not on the edge).
How do you deal with this? Do you make the longeron
6F1-3 curved as the assembly or do you have a rivet
line at a variable edge distance from the bottom
skin?... or both?
I verified actual measures and they match theoritical
mesures that I determined with some trigonometric
functions.
Michel
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich <rich(at)carol.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line |
It's true that returning fuel to one tank will not level out the 2nd.
I tried it. (Unless you have a 2" or larger diameter crossover)
But I also tried returning the fuel to a tee & the tee evenly brought
the fuel to each tank. I had it run for 30 minutes like this & the
levels were always even. This will work as long as everything is equal
for both sides (lengths, diameters, etc.). I won't be using a header
tank. I bought the Andair fuel selector with return & will be sending
the fuel back to the tanks.
Rich
801
Dick Baner wrote:
>
>
> Bob, I am in the midst of working out this exact problem so my theories are
> untested. At the moment I am set up to return to one of the wing tanks and let
> the two tanks level each other but am now concerned after discussion on this
> list that the leveling function will not work. The only solution seems to be
> what you suggest. In my case I will have to add a tank , one or two gallon,
in
> the fuselage to put fuel into from the wing tanks and then pump the return into
> it. Everyone I have checked this out with says that the header tank will handle
> the job with little problem with air bubbles from the return. One thing
> different is that I was told that the fuel rails will need 3/8 line even though
> the return is large enough at 5/16. Dick Baner
>
> Robert Isaacs wrote:
>
> >
> > I hope someone can give me a little direction reguarding the fuel return
> > line. I am Installing a Multi-Port-Fuel-Injected engine in my Zodiac
> > 601XL which has leading edge tanks, I'm am gravity feeding a 2gal
> > header/surge tank from the 3/8" tee line coupled wing tanks. I am using
> > a duel electric fuel pumps out of the header tank w/ 1/4" line feeding
> > the fuel rails.
> > The big question is should I have my fuel return line going back to the
> > header tank or teed back to the 2 leading edge tanks?
> > Has body worked this issue before or any susgestions would be helpfur.
> >
> > Bob
> > ZODIAC N601XL
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Isaacs" <bob999(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line |
I don't know why you would need to use a fuel ine larger the the origional
design by the Mfr. My EA-82T engine was fed by a 1/4" and a 1/4" return. I
figured 3/8" supply and 1/4" return would suffice. The only concern I have
is whether or no the pressured return line would back up into the 3/8"
gravity system at idle or lean fuel consumption.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Baner" <db8(at)mtco.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel return line
>
> Bob, I am in the midst of working out this exact problem so my theories
are
> untested. At the moment I am set up to return to one of the wing tanks
and let
> the two tanks level each other but am now concerned after discussion on
this
> list that the leveling function will not work. The only solution seems to
be
> what you suggest. In my case I will have to add a tank , one or two
gallon, in
> the fuselage to put fuel into from the wing tanks and then pump the return
into
> it. Everyone I have checked this out with says that the header tank will
handle
> the job with little problem with air bubbles from the return. One thing
> different is that I was told that the fuel rails will need 3/8 line even
though
> the return is large enough at 5/16. Dick Baner
>
> Robert Isaacs wrote:
>
> >
> > I hope someone can give me a little direction reguarding the fuel return
> > line. I am Installing a Multi-Port-Fuel-Injected engine in my Zodiac
> > 601XL which has leading edge tanks, I'm am gravity feeding a 2gal
> > header/surge tank from the 3/8" tee line coupled wing tanks. I am using
> > a duel electric fuel pumps out of the header tank w/ 1/4" line feeding
> > the fuel rails.
> > The big question is should I have my fuel return line going back to the
> > header tank or teed back to the 2 leading edge tanks?
> > Has body worked this issue before or any susgestions would be helpfur.
> >
> > Bob
> > ZODIAC N601XL
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Tanner" <vk3auu(at)sympac.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line |
Hi Dick,
I'm not too sure why you need a return line, seems to me to be an
unnecessary complication. I have flown mine for 160 hours without one. The
only thing that happens is that on a hot day, the fuel in the system seems
to boil when I shut the engine down and this pressurises the line from the
electric pump to the carbys.
A friend of mine had trouble with the return line from the header tank to
the main tank in a Kitfox having an "airlock" and this resulted in pressure
building up above the fuel in the header tank and it would run dry, so it
would seem that your header tank also need to have a vent back to the top of
one of the fuel tanks as well.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Baner" <db8(at)mtco.com>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel return line
>
> Bob, I am in the midst of working out this exact problem so my theories
are
> untested. At the moment I am set up to return to one of the wing tanks
and let
> the two tanks level each other but am now concerned after discussion on
this
> list that the leveling function will not work. The only solution seems to
be
> what you suggest. In my case I will have to add a tank , one or two
gallon, in
> the fuselage to put fuel into from the wing tanks and then pump the return
into
> it. Everyone I have checked this out with says that the header tank will
handle
> the job with little problem with air bubbles from the return. One thing
> different is that I was told that the fuel rails will need 3/8 line even
though
> the return is large enough at 5/16. Dick Baner
>
> Robert Isaacs wrote:
>
> >
> > I hope someone can give me a little direction reguarding the fuel return
> > line. I am Installing a Multi-Port-Fuel-Injected engine in my Zodiac
> > 601XL which has leading edge tanks, I'm am gravity feeding a 2gal
> > header/surge tank from the 3/8" tee line coupled wing tanks. I am using
> > a duel electric fuel pumps out of the header tank w/ 1/4" line feeding
> > the fuel rails.
> > The big question is should I have my fuel return line going back to the
> > header tank or teed back to the 2 leading edge tanks?
> > Has body worked this issue before or any susgestions would be helpfur.
> >
> > Bob
> > ZODIAC N601XL
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Latimer" <ljm10587(at)qwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: * New Bulletin from Zenith * |
I just checked out my splice plates. Front splice plates are fine. Rear
splice plates fail. My edge distance ranged from 8.5mm to 10mm. The rear
plate actually fits very loosely in the outboard wing section and are
approximately 4mm shorter than the drawings. It appears that whoever
radiused the plates so that they would fit the spar, took off way to much
material.
Some data on my aircraft:
recieved kit November 1999
Serial number 6-4141
Spar was built by factory November 1998
Plates have a ZAC work order number of "MWO # 7583-4"
Jerry Latimer
CH601HDS
all flying surfaces complete, center wing complete, and just riveted up the
rear fuse.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Tarabocchia" <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: * New Bulletin from Zenith *
> Bill Morelli wrote:
>
> > This aircraft was built from a kit. I took delivery on 5/22/1998 so this
> > problem goes back quite some time. My kit serial number is 6-3798.
> > I will call Nick Monday and request the new plates and I will stay
grounded
> > until they are installed.
> >
> > Regards,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim and Lucy <jpollard(at)mnsi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line |
Hi Bob
It seem to me that a gravity fed header tank would not work very well
due to the fact that there is not very much difference in the level of
the wing tanks and the header tank. A fairly small obstruction of
many different kinds will block the gravity feed to your header tank.
Where is your header tank, on the floor in front of the spar? If that is
the case you may also be planning to have those buzzy high pressure
fuel pumps in there with you. May be kind of irritating listening to them
all the time. There also may be a problem where if your wing tanks
are not vented exactly the same, one will run down at a different rate
than the other.
Since you got two pumps anyway, why not put one by each wing
tank and leave out the header tank. If the line from the tank will
not backflow due to the design of the pump or check valves you
could switch tanks simply by switching one pump on and the other
pump off. No valves needed for this part of the system although you
may need a valve where each line enters the cabin for emergency
shut off.
Now the fuel return part.
Its probably better to send the tank then to send it to a Tee
just before the pump. Running on the ground for a while
before takeoff could build up allot of bubbles in the fuel
if the same fuel is racing around and round the loop.
The fuel rail is in a hot area of the engine area usually.
Better to send it back to the tanks. That way you know
you always have cool liquid fuel flowing to your injectors
all the time. Especially at takeoff.
Quite allot of fuel runs though those return lines so
you will need a valve to direct it to the desired wing tank.
A regular 3 way valve can do this.
This is simular to what I am doing only I don"t have the
return fuel problem with a carb.
Jim Pollard
ch601hds
ea81
wing tanks only
working on rad and
lights.
>
>I hope someone can give me a little direction reguarding the fuel return
>line. I am Installing a Multi-Port-Fuel-Injected engine in my Zodiac
>601XL which has leading edge tanks, I'm am gravity feeding a 2gal
>header/surge tank from the 3/8" tee line coupled wing tanks. I am using
>a duel electric fuel pumps out of the header tank w/ 1/4" line feeding
>the fuel rails.
>The big question is should I have my fuel return line going back to the
>header tank or teed back to the 2 leading edge tanks?
>Has body worked this issue before or any susgestions would be helpfur.
>
>Bob
>ZODIAC N601XL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Norris <rnorris4(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear Fuselage question... |
Bend the longerons to follow the edge, keeping a constant edge distance.
There is a note explaining this in step 11 of the rear fuselage assembly
document downloaded from the builder's page of the Zenair website.
Rob Norris
Been there, done that.
> I thought it would be an easy thing to attach 6F1-1,
> the fuselage bottom skin, and 6F1-2, the end skin
> together today...
>
> Well, when I positioned them as shown in the plans, I
> checked the alignment and to my surprise, the line is
> not straight on each side. I did some calculations
> How do you deal with this? Do you make the longeron
> 6F1-3 curved as the assembly or do you have a rivet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RUSSELL JOHNSON" <entec1(at)pld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear Fuselage question... |
----- Original Message -----
From: Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
> I thought it would be an easy thing to attach 6F1-1,
> the fuselage bottom skin, and 6F1-2, the end skin
> together today...
When I spliced mine together, I drew a centerline down the middle of each
part and used that to align the two pieces.
The edges of the sheets will not be perfectly straight with each other.
Place the rivet line in the center of the lower longeron. This will be at a
varying distance from the edge of 6F1-2. Once it is assembled it won't even
be noticeable.
I checked my wing splice plates, looks like the rear ones will need to be
replaced.
Hope I can find a local machinest that has a set of transfer punches.
Russell Johnson / 601-HDS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Ingraham" <iflyul(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airlink Quick build kits |
I'm not currently doing business with them but plan to use their interior when
I get to that point......I've known Danny for some time and he's a sraight up
kind of guy......He's been around the kit plane business for a number of years
and does beautiful work........His glass work is second to none as are his interiors.........You
won't be disapointed..........Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dejan Vucinic <n713z(at)mail.com> |
| Subject: | splice plates: me too |
My splice plates' symptoms are pretty much exactly as described
in other messages. Looks like ZAC's jig (assuming they are
using one) was barely within tolerances, and then whoever filed
the plates down to size was too trigger-happy so there's a 2mm
gap to the extrusion and 8mm edge distance on the upper
outboard holes. Batch MWO #7656-9, picked up in May '99.
I'd gladly pay a reasonable fee if someone has access to
equipment that can properly transfer the original holes.
Small business, anyone? :)
Dejan Vucinic
N713Z(at)mail.com
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven J. Devine" <steve(at)tzogon.com> |
| Subject: | Re: splice plates: machine shop? |
I have an excellent relationship with a local/online machine shop... I am talking
to them now about the possibility of them making up new plates for anyone who
is interested. Will post further details when they become available.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dejan Vucinic" <n713z(at)mail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 11:23 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: splice plates: me too
>
> I'd gladly pay a reasonable fee if someone has access to
> equipment that can properly transfer the original holes.
> Small business, anyone? :)
>
> Dejan Vucinic
> N713Z(at)mail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mhodges(at)sprintmail.com |
| Subject: | Four Seater Zenith anyone? |
This may already have been distributed on the list, I'm a little behind in my reading
(and building, but lets not go there!)
Zenith CH640 and 4 seater CH2000 to be announced at Sun and Fun
http://accumcomm.net/~ch2000/News.htm from the http://www.newplane.com site.
Mitch Hodges
CH601HDS
Powder Springs, GA
"Really I am building, my drill is just really slow"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing Tip Light Installation Options - 801 |
I have heard significant discussion about mounting strobe and nav lights.
=A0There seems to be two schools of thought: 1) Mount Strobe generators in the
fuselage and route high voltage wires to strobes and 2) mount strobe
generators on outboard wing ribs to avoid high voltage wiring past the fuel
tanks.
Can anyone provide the pros and cons of these two methods? Does anyone have
any good or bad experience with either installation?
Dave Zilz
St. Peters MO
e-mail: z4t143(at)aol.com
web site: www.geocities.com/z4t143/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thilo Kind" <m_tkind(at)sprynet.com> |
Hi folks,
sorry for my late reply to this subject, but I was out of the country for a
while with no access to e-mail.
It was very lousy and cold, when I pulled the plane out the outer week. As
soon as I closed the canopy it began to fog. However, after starting the
engine and turning on the warm air (air over muffler / Rotax 912 with two
air vents in the instrument panel) it took only a few minutes to clear
again. No problems in flight.
Thilo Kind
spent some serious money for an electrical AH. Anybody interested in a
vacuum AH and a venturi (both new)?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of fhulen
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 9:19 PM
> To: Zenith List
> Subject: Zenith-List: Fogging canopy
>
>
> In Bill's recent "I did it" posting about his first flight,
> he mentions that
> his canopy fogged up, and that he turned on the exhaust fan
> and it cleared
> right up. In one of the aviation magazines that I receive it
> listed a "Top
> 12 things" checklist of things that they thought should be
> included in every
> instrument panel design. A "defrost vent" on the front
> screen was on that
> list. This brings forth a question that I had been meaning to
> post. Do any
> of you have this, what's your experience, and of those of you
> that don't
> have this vent, have you run into times when the front canopy
> fogged up to a
> point that you needed or wished that you had this mentioned vent?
> Thanks
> Fred Getting close to hanging the 3300 engine....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Hello from Michel Therrien |
Hi Peter!
I did not read from you for a long time... Are you
still building your CH601? How are you progressing?
I tried to access your web site, but it appears to be
removed...
On my side, I am doing quite well, but I don't work as
much as I would like on the project.
Later,
Michel
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HOLCOMBE" <holcombe(at)oregonfast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Light Installation Options - 801 |
I mounted mine (701) in the wing tips and found the wireing simpler, in
part, because I did not have to shield the high voltage wires all the way
out from the fuselage. Wing tip lights can include the rear white marker
light and it is not necessary to wire back to the tail and mount a light in
the rudder.
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: <Z4T143(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 4:19 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Wing Tip Light Installation Options - 801
>
>
> I have heard significant discussion about mounting strobe and nav lights.
>There seems to be two schools of thought: 1) Mount Strobe generators in
t> he
> fuselage and route high voltage wires to strobes and 2) mount strobe
> generators on outboard wing ribs to avoid high voltage wiring past the
fuel
> tanks.
>
> Can anyone provide the pros and cons of these two methods? Does anyone
have>
> any good or bad experience with either installation?
>
> Dave Zilz
> St. Peters MO
> e-mail: z4t143(at)aol.com
> web site: www.geocities.com/z4t143/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Meiste's" <meiste(at)essex1.com> |
My 601 HD also has the bad plates.
Fronts are 11 1/2 mm at the worst.
Backs are 8 1/2 at the worst.
Kit was picked up Jan 99
Kit # 6-3934, & MWO # 7253-4HD
Still haven't heard from ZAC yet (they must be notifying the oldest planes
first).
Kelly Meiste
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thilo Kind" <m_tkind(at)sprynet.com> |
| Subject: | I did it !!!!!!!! |
Hi Bill,
just came back from a long trip from overseas (270 e-mail in my inbox...)
and run across your first flight announcement. Congratulations! Believe me,
I know exactly, how you feel. It's a great flying machine.
Keep the blue side up
Thilo Kind
Thilo Kind m_tkind(at)sprynet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Wood" <twood(at)ucf.k12.pa.us> |
Can someone help me with a question?
My plans call for each flap to be 2080 mm in length at the longest point
before cutting the inboard edge. Each flap measures 2200mm long as
received from Zenith. Why? Did I miss something?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Cindy" <cingar(at)mtco.com> |
| Subject: | Stratus Installation |
I'm new to the list. I just received my firewall fwd kit from Zenair
and my Subaru from Stratus. As is the case more and more as I get
further along, information and prints are very poor at best. I'm
searching for someone that has already completed this installation and
has taken photo's of each step. I would be more than happy to pay the
processing costs for a set of these photo's. Also interested in ideas
for cabin heat. Thanx, Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
Boy, everyone is reporting bad splice plates. Doesn't anyone have good
ones. I plan to inspect mine this weekend.
Jim Weston
McDonough, Ga.
-----Original Message-----
From: The Meiste's [mailto:meiste(at)essex1.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 9:16 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Splice plates
My 601 HD also has the bad plates.
Fronts are 11 1/2 mm at the worst.
Backs are 8 1/2 at the worst.
Kit was picked up Jan 99
Kit # 6-3934, & MWO # 7253-4HD
Still haven't heard from ZAC yet (they must be notifying the oldest planes
first).
Kelly Meiste
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fhulen" <fhulen(at)gabs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Splice plates |
I plan to inspect mine this weekend.
>
> Jim Weston
++ The area that seems to be failing most of the inspections on the HDS is
the first three bolt holes going through the center wing section at the top
on the rear plate.
Fred
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff & Marcia Davidson" <jdavidso(at)fcc.net> |
Evidently, the problem has been around a while. The rear splice plates on
my 1994 vintage HD wings have edge distances that vary from 8.5 to 14 also.
Jeff Davidson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thilo Kind" <m_tkind(at)sprynet.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Fogging canopy |
Hi Michel,
no, the venturi is not a good solution. I mounted mine underneath the
cowling - agreeable not the best spot. I get enough vacuum only in straight
and level flight at 120 mph. That's not good enough. Besides, the venturi
looks ugly and is probably a big drag contributing part.
For the records: I only run an AH on the 4" venturi - both are on sale, if
anybody is interested..
Thilo Kind
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michel Therrien [mailto:mtherr(at)yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 9:55 PM
> To: m_tkind(at)sprynet.com
> Subject: RE: Fogging canopy
>
>
> Do I understand right that the venturi does not work
> on the 601? I know that Bruce Brockius tried in
> various positions and could not get satisfying
> results...
>
> This said, you should consider selling it on e-Bay...
> Normally, selling price relatively high.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michel
>
>
> --- Thilo Kind wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > sorry for my late reply to this subject, but I was
> > out of the country for a
> > while with no access to e-mail.
> >
> > It was very lousy and cold, when I pulled the plane
> > out the outer week. As
> > soon as I closed the canopy it began to fog.
> > However, after starting the
> > engine and turning on the warm air (air over muffler
> > / Rotax 912 with two
> > air vents in the instrument panel) it took only a
> > few minutes to clear
> > again. No problems in flight.
> >
> > Thilo Kind
> >
> > spent some serious money for an electrical AH.
> > Anybody interested in a
> > vacuum AH and a venturi (both new)?
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On
> > Behalf Of fhulen
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 9:19 PM
> > > To: Zenith List
> > > Subject: Zenith-List: Fogging canopy
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > In Bill's recent "I did it" posting about his
> > first flight,
> > > he mentions that
> > > his canopy fogged up, and that he turned on the
> > exhaust fan
> > > and it cleared
> > > right up. In one of the aviation magazines that I
> > receive it
> > > listed a "Top
> > > 12 things" checklist of things that they thought
> > should be
> > > included in every
> > > instrument panel design. A "defrost vent" on the
> > front
> > > screen was on that
> > > list. This brings forth a question that I had been
> > meaning to
> > > post. Do any
> > > of you have this, what's your experience, and of
> > those of you
> > > that don't
> > > have this vent, have you run into times when the
> > front canopy
> > > fogged up to a
> > > point that you needed or wished that you had this
> > mentioned vent?
> > > Thanks
> > > Fred Getting close to hanging the 3300
> > engine....
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
> http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601
>
> __________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thilo Kind" <m_tkind(at)sprynet.com> |
Hi group,
I have some problems downloading the memo about the splice plate issue from
ZAC's webpage - get only the first and half of the second page. Next comes a
error message. Can anybody e-mail me the drawings?
Thanks
Thilo Kind
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Web Site Update.... |
Hey Listers,
I have updated my site with new pictures in the Cabin, Fuselage, and
Firewall Forward sections. These include my Canopy Locking system that
I devised from a simple home depot product. It also includes my fuel
system and 0-200 installation and home made metal cowl.....
Enjoy and good luck
--
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven J. Devine" <steve(at)tzogon.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Splice Plates |
> I have some problems downloading the memo about the splice plate issue from
> ZAC's webpage - get only the first and half of the second page. Next comes a
> error message. Can anybody e-mail me the drawings?
Download Acrobat 4.0 reader from Adobe... 3.0 (3.01...) is not compatible with
the file and is producing this error message.
Steve
Steven J. Devine, President, Consultant, TZOGON Enterprises Incorporated
President, EAA Chapter 136 (LWM/Merrimac Valley)
steve@tzogon.com HAM Tech lic: N1YZJ http://www.tzogon.com
http://www.tzogon.com/~steve/glass_cockpit
http://www.tzogon.com/~steve/stolch801
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Venturi on a 601 |
Responding to the comment re use of a venturi on the 601, I've had my 4
inch unit since build, placed below the upper longeron and above the main
spar on the passenger side. It has driven my AH well, and starts to spin up
during takeoff. The AH is fully stabilized well before reaching 200 ft.
The AH is a life-saver. The venturi is a real drag.
Dave Austin 601HDS 912 with ARPLAST
daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Splice Plates |
Hey Bill,
Could you pass those along to me as well?
Thanks,
Steven Freeman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Ferguson" <pfergus2(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
I have just received my FWF kit from Jabiru West. It was complete and
packed so well, it could have carried fine china. The cowling is
EXCELLENT ! The workmanship " A1 ". The engine mount matched the
firewall and the airbox is neat. If you can't tell from this email, I am
very happy.
I had some hesitation in dealing with Mark Sarkowsky ( US agent for
Jabiru ) because of some negative feed back I had received earlier. But
Mark went the extra mile to reassured me and provided me with some other
references. He sent some paper work for me to fill out and a list of
what I should receive in the box. Five days later the FWF shows up and
everything is in the box. It doesn't get better that that. Mark might be
a little hard to get a hold of ( email is best ) but he is honest and I
am not the least bit hesitant in dealing with him.
Bad news, my splice plates ( rear ) need replacement " MWO 4959-3 ".
Peter Ferguson
601HDS TD
Largo FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brook" <walruss(at)optushome.com.au> |
| Subject: | joining fuselages together |
Hey guys,
Sometimes I need to be reminded why building 2 701's at the same time isn't
a good reason to be certified insane. Last night was one of those times.
I've put the forward fuses onto the rear fuses. The first one took me about
7 hours to get tweeked up and I had a lot of angst and one sleepless night.
Last night was the second go at the first one and it went together well.
Using what I learnt from the first one I did the preperation on the second
one and decided to give it a go. It went together in under an hour.
Woooohhooooo
Sooo.. now I have 2 beautiful looking fuselages downstairs ready to be
fitted out and rivetted up. I'm kinda running out of room in my garage.
hmmmm... THis is a good problem to have.
So, for the members of the list with motivation difficulties.
Build boldy and never fear the spills,
for tis very few that know the rewards
of flying the machine they built,
over distant blue hills.
Mike B. 2 701's simultaneously, 520hrs construction time, flying surfaces
complete, fuses joined well and truely over the motivation hump.running out
of room
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
STEFREE(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Splice Plates
Hey Bill,
Could you pass those along to me as well?
Thanks,
Steven Freeman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Isaacs" <bob999(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Venturi on a 601 |
Has anyone tried to use the manifold vacuum w/ a reserve tank for those
using a Subaru engine I can't see why this won't work, you might have to
supplement it with a 4" Venturi.
Just asking? Any comments?
Bob
N601XL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 8:51 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Venturi on a 601
>
> Responding to the comment re use of a venturi on the 601, I've had my 4
> inch unit since build, placed below the upper longeron and above the main
> spar on the passenger side. It has driven my AH well, and starts to spin
up
> during takeoff. The AH is fully stabilized well before reaching 200 ft.
> The AH is a life-saver. The venturi is a real drag.
> Dave Austin 601HDS 912 with ARPLAST
> daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net> |
| Subject: | Splice Plate Update |
I received my replacement splice plates yesterday from ZAC along with
instructions and two drill guides and drill bits.
Today I spent about four hours making the two new steel plates match my two
rear aluminum plates. They came out perfectly. All 10 holes in each plate
match the originals.
I followed the ZAC instructions pretty much to the letter. The only thing I
did differently was that ZAC said to drill all four 3/8" holes (with pilot
holes using the drill guide) with the plate clamped to the OB spar. I only
did that with one upper and one lower 3/8" hole. Then removed the plate and
drilled the pilot hole which was a #7 size hole up to 3/8" using
progressively larger bits till the 3/8" drill Then I simply bolted the new
and old plate together through the 3/8" holes and pilot drilled all of the
other holes on a drill press (using the drill guides supplied)which included
the two remaining 3/8" and six 5/16" holes again stepping up in drill sizes
until the final size was reached.
I had some reservations about using he pilot hole and simply drilling in
this stepped up fashion. I was assured by two A & P mechanics and a retired
machinist the hangs out at the airport that the drills would self align as I
drilled each succeeding size and they were 100% correct.
I can put the old 6061 rear plate and new 4130 rear plate together and slip
all 10 bolts in as snug as the originals supplied by ZAC.
If anyone want the ZAC instructions to look over I can scan the document and
e-mail it.
I was going to change the front plates but decided not to at this time
anyway ( I may never change them). The front plates all have good edge
distance and are only slightly smaller (top to bottom) than the spec. shows.
The edge distance on all the holes in the spars is OK.
My new 4130 plates are at the paint shop getting primed and will go back in
on Saturday. Hopefully I will be back in the air by Sunday.
ZAC did not request that I send back these drill guides and bits but I
probably will anyway so they can pass them on to someone else.
Regards,
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Venturi on a 601 |
This was discussed on the AirSoob list a while ago...
apparently it was affecting the performance of the
engine either at idle or at speed, but I don't
remember exactly.
One interesting thing tough is that a different
approach was discussed. Some tried putting a tube at
an angle in the exhaust system to create a vacuum. It
seems to work better. We would need to consult those
archives to find more.
Michel
--- Robert Isaacs wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone tried to use the manifold vacuum w/ a
> reserve tank for those
> using a Subaru engine I can't see why this won't
> work, you might have to
> supplement it with a 4" Venturi.
> Just asking? Any comments?
>
> Bob
> N601XL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca>
> To: "Zenith list"
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 8:51 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Venturi on a 601
>
>
>
> >
> > Responding to the comment re use of a venturi on
> the 601, I've had my 4
> > inch unit since build, placed below the upper
> longeron and above the main
> > spar on the passenger side. It has driven my AH
> well, and starts to spin
> up
> > during takeoff. The AH is fully stabilized well
> before reaching 200 ft.
> > The AH is a life-saver. The venturi is a real
> drag.
> > Dave Austin 601HDS 912 with ARPLAST
> > daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca
> >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd(at)tstar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: joining fuselages together |
Mike,
How do you do it? I've got about 1400 hrs in my (just 1) 701 and have
wings, tail, slats, flaperons and most of the rear fuselage and some of the
front fuselage done.
I sure hope that Zenith has figured out the geometry so the firewall will
really be at 73 degrees to the horizontal reference line. Because I don't
see any room to adjust the firewall.
Chuck D.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Brook <walruss(at)optushome.com.au>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 12:45 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: joining fuselages together
>
> Hey guys,
>
> Sometimes I need to be reminded why building 2 701's at the same time
isn't
> a good reason to be certified insane. Last night was one of those times.
>
> I've put the forward fuses onto the rear fuses. The first one took me
about
> 7 hours to get tweeked up and I had a lot of angst and one sleepless
night.
> Last night was the second go at the first one and it went together well.
> Using what I learnt from the first one I did the preperation on the second
> one and decided to give it a go. It went together in under an hour.
> Woooohhooooo
>
> Sooo.. now I have 2 beautiful looking fuselages downstairs ready to be
> fitted out and rivetted up. I'm kinda running out of room in my garage.
> hmmmm... THis is a good problem to have.
>
> So, for the members of the list with motivation difficulties.
>
> Build boldy and never fear the spills,
> for tis very few that know the rewards
> of flying the machine they built,
> over distant blue hills.
>
> Mike B. 2 701's simultaneously, 520hrs construction time, flying surfaces
> complete, fuses joined well and truely over the motivation hump.running
out
> of room
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fhulen" <fhulen(at)gabs.net> |
| Subject: | Jabiru U.S. distribution |
I received a message this morning that indicated that Jabiru West might not
be the U.S. distributor any longer. I went to the Jabiru webb site in
Australia and sure enough, it says that Jabiru distrubution in the United
States is being re-organized and that for now we should contact them. I had
heard a rumor about a month ago that a big change was going to happen after
the first of the year and that Jabiru owners would be very happy with what
would be coming in the next few months. I checked the Jabiru West site and
all pages are gone except one, that one saying that you can contact Mark
Sarkowski by email. The rest of the site is gone.
Fred
Area 41 Snailworks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601 XL flaps |
| From: | Michael R Fortunato <wizard-24(at)juno.com> |
Don't know if you ever got your question answered, and I don't have the
plans in front of me, so I may not be of much help......
But having built both my flaps, I seem to remember having to cut them to
size, and leaving them a bit long until installing them against the
fuselage, when the final cut can be made more precisely.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Tail section, rear fuse, and left wing done.
writes:
>
> Can someone help me with a question?
>
> My plans call for each flap to be 2080 mm in length at the
> longest point
> before cutting the inboard edge. Each flap measures 2200mm long
> as
> received from Zenith. Why? Did I miss something?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PWalsh8045(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | fuel filter...and oil |
H
What is everyone using for a fuel filter for the 912?
I have been using a small clear plastic...filter from acsp...kind of a hard
"sand" type. I recall reading somewhere not to use the paper type
filters...so I havent...but it seems thats all there is really....so....any
thoughts?...
Also...what oil is best used with auto gas in the 912..in Texas.....and what
weight...the manual is not too clear on this....I have been using a fully
synthetic motorcycle oil with gear additive only...but cant find it
anymore...certainly an auto parts store should have all we need.....
Thanks in advance
Patrick Walsh....200 + hrs...601 HD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Izard <bill(at)izard.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel filter...and oil |
Please remove me from your Mailing List. I`m get 40- 50 emails from your
company each day ,all I want is Tailwind information
Regards
Bill Izard
>
>H
> What is everyone using for a fuel filter for the 912?
> I have been using a small clear plastic...filter from acsp...kind of a hard
>"sand" type. I recall reading somewhere not to use the paper type
>filters...so I havent...but it seems thats all there is really....so....any
>thoughts?...
> Also...what oil is best used with auto gas in the 912..in Texas.....and
> what
>weight...the manual is not too clear on this....I have been using a fully
>synthetic motorcycle oil with gear additive only...but cant find it
>anymore...certainly an auto parts store should have all we need.....
> Thanks in advance
>Patrick Walsh....200 + hrs...601 HD
>
>
-------------------------
Izard Industries Ltd
P.O.Box 477
Masterton
New Zealand
The Izard Family
http://mysite.xtra.co.nz/~izard/page1.html
Phone 64 6 3788862
Fax 64 6 3788649
Mobile 025 463 254
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net> |
| Subject: | Splice plate tooling |
Today I finished installing the new 4130 rear splice plates. Aircraft is all
back together and will fly tomorrow weather permitting.
I shipped the drill guides and drill bits I received from ZAC to Dejan
Vucinic, N713Z(at)mail.com so he can use them next. If anyone wants them,
contact Dejan and I'm sure he would be glad to pass them along.
For you builders that are weight conscious, each 4130 rear plate weights 1.5
lbs more than the 6061 plate for an increase in gross weight of 3.0 lbs.
Regards,
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew SanClemente <ansancle(at)townisp.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument Panel |
Hi,
For those of you that are flying or near so I have a question on your
instrument panel layout (601 HDS). Most layouts have the nav-comms, gps,
etc.. located in the middle or to the right. When flying with the center
stick does this present a problem when needing to change settings on these
instruments? Im doing my panel layout now and would really like to hear the
comments of those who are flying,
Thanks
Andrew SanClemente
90% complete for 2 years now ;)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Danielson" <steved(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel - Radios on left with center stick? |
On my 701 the com radio and gps are on the left of the panel and the regular
instruments and engine instruments were toward the center. At first I
thought it looked wierd (I wasn't the original builder) but it worked out
really great and feels totally natural to me now. When I am in a 152 or
something it looks wierd to me now that all the instruments are jammed at
the left side of the panel... I could do all the stuff with my left hand,
radio, gps, and puch to talk, and keep my right hand on the stick.
I too have wondered the same thing because I have seen plenty of our panels
with all the radios and stuff in the middle. I wonder how I would change
frequencies on a climbout from a controlled airport or something for
example.
Here is a picture of my panel:
http://home.nc.rr.com/danielson/cockpit.jpg
Steve Danielson
http://home.nc.rr.com/danielson/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew SanClemente" <ansancle(at)townisp.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 10:22 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Instrument Panel
>
> Hi,
> For those of you that are flying or near so I have a question on your
> instrument panel layout (601 HDS). Most layouts have the nav-comms, gps,
> etc.. located in the middle or to the right. When flying with the center
> stick does this present a problem when needing to change settings on these
> instruments? Im doing my panel layout now and would really like to hear
the
> comments of those who are flying,
> Thanks
> Andrew SanClemente
>
> 90% complete for 2 years now ;)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Meiste's" <meiste(at)essex1.com> |
| Subject: | 601 Throttle Cable Stop |
Would anyone out there know why ZAC supplies two Throttle Cable Stops
(6E5-2) with their FWF kit (for the tri-gear style 601)?
I'm trying to install this today. I see on drawing 6E5 that it shows the
Throttle Cable Stop installed on the firewall & angled up to the top shelf
with an "L" joining all three parts. I just don't see where the second
Throttle Cable Stop would be installed?
Thanks to anyone who can comment on this!
Kelly Meiste
601 HD Tri-Gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel |
| From: | Jim <jashford(at)hawaii.rr.com> |
Andrew,
I have an in panel King Radio and Transponder located center with trans. at
bottom. No problem with access in flight. I do have my portable Garmin GPS
velcroed to the top of a pedestal from the panel to the floor. To read it, I
have to bend a bit forward to see around the stick. If I have to make any
changes in the entries, I "unstick" it from the velcro for easy access.
You are getting close!
Jim Ashford
601 HDS 912 tri
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich <rich(at)carol.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Venturi on a 601 |
Are you talking about using the manifold vacuum for the vacuum
instruments like the DG, artificial horizon, etc.?
Rich
801
Robert Isaacs wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone tried to use the manifold vacuum w/ a reserve tank for those
> using a Subaru engine I can't see why this won't work, you might have to
> supplement it with a 4" Venturi.
> Just asking? Any comments?
>
> Bob
> N601XL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca>
> To: "Zenith list"
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 8:51 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Venturi on a 601
>
> >
> > Responding to the comment re use of a venturi on the 601, I've had my 4
> > inch unit since build, placed below the upper longeron and above the main
> > spar on the passenger side. It has driven my AH well, and starts to spin
> up
> > during takeoff. The AH is fully stabilized well before reaching 200 ft.
> > The AH is a life-saver. The venturi is a real drag.
> > Dave Austin 601HDS 912 with ARPLAST
> > daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dejan Vucinic <n713z(at)mail.com> |
| Subject: | tools, heavy splice plates |
Received my new splice plates a few days ago, with instructions
but no tools. I suppose ZAC ran out or stopped including tools
when they realized the magnitude of the problem... Anyway,
Bill Morelli has graciously offered to pass along the drills
and drill guides he got from ZAC. If you'd like me to send you
the tools when I finish my plates write me your snail-mail
address at N713Z(at)mail.com.
I must admit that I was taken by surprise when I was handed the
package by the UPS person, so I measured the old and new plates.
The original rear plates weigh just a tad under 600 grams.
The two new 4130 ones are 1800 grams. Ouch! I wonder if a
lightening hole or two is permissible in the center.
--dv
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Venturi on a 601 |
| From: | clydes-shop(at)juno.com |
HI: Rich
The use of manifold vacuum is too unreliable to use with gyros. They
need to be kept real
clean other wise the gyros are short lived ,I know because I am a retired
Instrument Technician of 41 years experience. It works with vacuum pumps
pumps or Venturi that use fans in front of it that is streamlined In
remote areas
>
> Are you talking about using the manifold vacuum for the vacuum
> instruments like the DG, artificial horizon, etc.?
>
> Rich
> 801
>
>
> Robert Isaacs wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > Has anyone tried to use the manifold vacuum w/ a reserve tank for
> those
> > using a Subaru engine I can't see why this won't work, you might
> have to
> > supplement it with a 4" Venturi.
> > Just asking? Any comments?
> >
> > Bob
> > N601XL
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca>
> > To: "Zenith list"
> > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 8:51 AM
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Venturi on a 601
> >
>
> > >
> > > Responding to the comment re use of a venturi on the 601, I've
> had my 4
> > > inch unit since build, placed below the upper longeron and above
> the main
> > > spar on the passenger side. It has driven my AH well, and
> starts to spin
> > up
> > > during takeoff. The AH is fully stabilized well before reaching
> 200 ft.
> > > The AH is a life-saver. The venturi is a real drag.
> > > Dave Austin 601HDS 912 with ARPLAST
> > > daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Yours truly
Clyde D. Ehlers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Tanner" <vk3auu(at)sympac.com.au> |
Members of the list might be interested to know that one Slepcev Storch is
now flying with a 7 cylinder, 120 h.p. radial engine designed and made
locally in Australia. My informant said that the Storch had a take off run
of about 20 yards and then climbed out at 45 degrees. The engine has 2.8
litre capacity and if I remember right, swings a 75 inch propellor. I have
no other details at the moment.
David Tanner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | 701, 7.F.6.1 rivet size & pitch |
Listers:
I've finally restarted on my 701 project, could anyone advise the
rivet size and spacing to attach part no. 7.F.6.1 to the rear fuselage
lower skin? I can't seem to find it in the plans. I also need
clarification regarding the rivet size used to attach the longerons to
the rear fuselage skins. My location coordinates refer to a location on
the plans measured from the printed borders, the first number is across
from the left border and the second number is down from the top border
in mm, like a road map. On plans sheet 7.F.6 at location (110, 215) is
the note: "Longerons Rivets A4 pitch 40 (except splice + rear end). At
location (220, 215) is the note: "rivets A5 pitch 40 (longerons top +
bottom) shown within arrows like you switch to A5's for the forward
portion at some point. Do you use A4 full length on the longerons or is
there some point up front where you switch to A5?
Started again and immediately stuck again.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, 701 plans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elbie(at)aol.com (by way of Matt Dralle 925-606-1001 <dralle(at)matronics.com>) |
2/9/2001
Fellow Pilots and Builders:
EM aviation is pleased to announce that the RiteAngle III Angle of
Attack system is in production. I know this has been a long, long wait for
some of you, however I will not sell a system that is not up to my standards.
The long delay was partially caused by the total new design required
after the RiteAngle 2000 system was terminated. The remainder of the delay
was insuring the system met all our requirements such as both hot and cold
environment testing. The first production group of systems off the line
are being again extensively tested for approximately 2 weeks before we
deliver any systems to insure there are no "bugs" appearing.
When all production testing is accomplished I will ship according to who
has sent in the order form via fax or US mail. (Again, DO NOT send your
credit card number via e-mail! I DO NOT have a secure e-mail line.)
If you want a spot in line for early delivery you can request this via
e-mail, and mail your check or CC number.
At present time I estimate 4- 10 weeks before your delivery, depending on
when I receive your payment.
To those of you who have been in correspondence with me for the last year,
thanks for your belief in EM aviation's product, and soon you will have a
product in your hands. I honor my correspondence of the quoted price.
Current price $295 + mount & options see web site for information.
www.riteangle.com
Elbie Mendenhall
President
EM Aviation, LLC
P NE Prairie Rd
Brush Prairie WA 98606
360-260-0772
www.riteangle.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Norris <rnorris4(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Splice plate tooling |
Bill Morelli wrote:
> For you builders that are weight conscious, each 4130 rear plate weights 1.5
> lbs more than the 6061 plate for an increase in gross weight of 3.0 lbs.
Actually it results in an increase in empty weight. Gross weight stays
the same. I need new rear plates also, but I don't know yet if I have to
use the 4130 or can get away with Al. Does ANYONE have Zenair produced
plates that meet the specs?
Rob Norris
One step forward, two steps back.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 701, 7.F.6.1 rivet size & pitch |
Randy,
Use A5 on the longeron splices (all four of them, of course) and use
A5 on the forward longerons, starting from about the middle of the bottom
access hole. Use A4 whenever A5 is not specified; thus rivet the 7F6-1
channel to the bottom of the rear fuselage with A4. Do not be discouraged! I
have been working nearly since 1997 on my "four hundred hour" "easy to build"
"first time builder" CH701.
Stan - CH701/"everything finished" but the fuselage, engine and
instruments......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd(at)tstar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701, 7.F.6.1 rivet size & pitch |
Randy,
From: Randy L. Thwing <n4546v(at)mindspring.com>
> Listers:
> I've finally restarted on my 701 project, could anyone advise the
> rivet size and spacing to attach part no. 7.F.6.1 to the rear fuselage
> lower skin? I can't seem to find it in the plans.
use A4 pitch 40
I also need
> clarification regarding the rivet size used to attach the longerons to
> the rear fuselage skins. My location coordinates refer to a location on
> the plans measured from the printed borders, the first number is across
> from the left border and the second number is down from the top border
> in mm, like a road map. On plans sheet 7.F.6 at location (110, 215) is
> the note: "Longerons Rivets A4 pitch 40 (except splice + rear end). At
> location (220, 215) is the note: "rivets A5 pitch 40 (longerons top +
> bottom) shown within arrows like you switch to A5's for the forward
> portion at some point. Do you use A4 full length on the longerons or is
> there some point up front where you switch to A5?
Use A4 pitch 40 on longerons except use A5 at longeron splices, on longerons
forward of uprights 7.F.5.4, for horisontal tail attach brackets and lower
rudder hinge 7.F.4.2. Bolts on upper rudder hinge.
ZAC has a 701 construction manual update on their web site, but beware there
are some typos.
Chuck D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Ingraham" <iflyul(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Radial Engine |
Hi David.....the engine you're speaking of is the Rotec R-8000. It can be
found at WWW.rotecradialengines.com.....You can E-mail them at
cherna(at)netstra.com.au......The engine weighs 194 lbs all up.....seems a bit
on the heavy side for a 701......You might want to check
www.aviator.cc/engines.html..."Eric's Homebuilt Aircraft Engine
Directory".........It's a great site with a lot of info.....Take care and
fly safe.......Eric (no relation to the site listed above.....I only wish I
could take credit for it......te Guy does a great job!)
>From: "David Tanner" <vk3auu(at)sympac.com.au>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Zenith-List: Radial Engine
>Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:47:31 +1100
>
>
>Members of the list might be interested to know that one Slepcev Storch is
>now flying with a 7 cylinder, 120 h.p. radial engine designed and made
>locally in Australia. My informant said that the Storch had a take off run
>of about 20 yards and then climbed out at 45 degrees. The engine has 2.8
>litre capacity and if I remember right, swings a 75 inch propellor. I have
>no other details at the moment.
>
>David Tanner
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601 rivet size |
Tom, when I started my 701 I called the factory and asked if it would be ok
if I used A5s throughout. They asked me why I would want to do that. I said
because then the airplane would be stronger. They took me apart! Bottom
line: Chris Heintz knows what he's doing and part of the cost of our kits
includes his expertise and there's a high probability that he has a better
handle on stresses than most of us do. Now, at my local EAA chapter, all the
old timers think pop rivets are for sissies and they wanted me to buck rivet
the whole airplane; they also wanted me to use thicker skins and beef up the
internal structures. In other words, they wanted me to turn the 701 into a
Beechcraft. I determined then and there that I would build my airplane to
the specs as exactly as I could and that the only "mods" I would consider
would be nonstructural or aesthetic such as where the instruments go on my
panel and where I mount the ELT. Well, for what it's worth, this is my
opinion about rivets although I must say that emotionally, I sure like the
heft of an A5 compared to an A4. stan.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Cindy" <cingar(at)mtco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 Throttle Cable Stop |
I just called on that one the other day...Talked to Nick...he said some had
broken them when trying to make the bend. One is all that you use. He also
said not to attach the choke cables as shown on drawings because the 90 deg
bend after the firewall will make it too stiff. Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: The Meiste's <meiste(at)essex1.com>
Date: Sunday, February 11, 2001 10:49 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Throttle Cable Stop
>
>Would anyone out there know why ZAC supplies two Throttle Cable Stops
>(6E5-2) with their FWF kit (for the tri-gear style 601)?
>I'm trying to install this today. I see on drawing 6E5 that it shows the
>Throttle Cable Stop installed on the firewall & angled up to the top shelf
>with an "L" joining all three parts. I just don't see where the second
>Throttle Cable Stop would be installed?
>Thanks to anyone who can comment on this!
>
>Kelly Meiste
>601 HD Tri-Gear
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Veltri" <vijan(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Airspeed Indicator for sale |
I sold my project and have a United Model 8100, True Airspeed Indicator
with the range marks for a 601HDS silk screened. This is advertised in
TAP for about $395. I will sell for $250. Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darryl West" <rdwest(at)cadvision.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Splice plate tooling |
I have not been able to produce a totally legible print from the
601-splice-plate.pdf file downloaded from Zenair's builder website. The
light grey fine print dimensions on the sketches is very faint and missing
some detail on the printout, making it difficult to read the number values,
even on the best quality setting and blown up to 11"x17". The actual pdf
file can be magnified on-screen to reveal all details, but not the print. Is
everybody else having this problem also?
Darryl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HOLCOMBE" <holcombe(at)oregonfast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 rivet size |
Follow the plans, all part of K.I.S.S. Try squeezing A-5s all day and see
if the unneeded extra beef still looks so good.
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel Pelletier" <pelletie1(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed Indicator for sale |
Hi Vince
What the size of your True airspeed
Daniel 601 HDS
>From: "Vince Veltri" <vijan(at)home.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Zenith-List: Airspeed Indicator for sale
>Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:23:24 -0500
>
>
>I sold my project and have a United Model 8100, True Airspeed Indicator
>with the range marks for a 601HDS silk screened. This is advertised in
>TAP for about $395. I will sell for $250. Vince
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601 rivet size |
Tom, visit my project website at http://hometown.aol.com/sjl219/index.html
and you will clearly see why I fall into the category of "those who adhere
strictly to the plans."
stan CH701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Veltri" <vijan(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed Indicator for sale |
Daniel, It fits a standard 3-1/8" hole. Vince
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Pelletier" <pelletie1(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Airspeed Indicator for sale
>
>
> Hi Vince
>
> What the size of your True airspeed
>
> Daniel 601 HDS
>
>
> >From: "Vince Veltri" <vijan(at)home.com>
> >Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: Zenith-List: Airspeed Indicator for sale
> >Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:23:24 -0500
> >
> >
> >I sold my project and have a United Model 8100, True Airspeed Indicator
> >with the range marks for a 601HDS silk screened. This is advertised in
> >TAP for about $395. I will sell for $250. Vince
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fhulen" <fhulen(at)gabs.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Splice plate instruction printing |
> I have not been able to produce a totally legible print from the
> 601-splice-plate.Is
> everybody else having this problem also?
>
++ Yes.... I finally went up to the upper left corner of my computer and
clicked on "file" which brings down the options, clicked on "print" and up
came the box with "properties". I clicked on "Properties" box and found
after trying a print at better quality, that the only way to get a really
great print was to move the quality button all the way over to best quality,
then I got a great print.
Fred
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Splice plate tooling |
| From: | Jim <jashford(at)hawaii.rr.com> |
Darryl,
I had the same problem, so I e-mailed ZAC for the two drawings. Linda said,
"they're in the mail"
Jim Ashford
601 HDS
> From: "Darryl West" <rdwest(at)cadvision.com>
> Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:17:25 -0700
> To:
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Splice plate tooling
>
>
> I have not been able to produce a totally legible print from the
> 601-splice-plate.pdf file downloaded from Zenair's builder website. The
> light grey fine print dimensions on the sketches is very faint and missing
> some detail on the printout, making it difficult to read the number values,
> even on the best quality setting and blown up to 11"x17". The actual pdf
> file can be magnified on-screen to reveal all details, but not the print. Is
> everybody else having this problem also?
>
> Darryl
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel |
Hi;
Some suggestions re: radios.
Keep the GPS and VHF separated as much as possible. The GPS's radiate a
fair bit of noise. Box in the GPS in metal and make sure it is well
grounded. Separate the coax from the VHF coax. I fyou find that you have
to set the squelch on the VHF higher to cut out the noise when the GPS
is on, then you have some work to do.
Regards
Mike
UHS Spinners
Andrew SanClemente wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
> For those of you that are flying or near so I have a question on your
> instrument panel layout (601 HDS). Most layouts have the nav-comms, gps,
> etc.. located in the middle or to the right. When flying with the center
> stick does this present a problem when needing to change settings on these
> instruments? Im doing my panel layout now and would really like to hear the
> comments of those who are flying,
> Thanks
> Andrew SanClemente
>
> 90% complete for 2 years now ;)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Zodiac 601 XL Sport Plane Catagory |
| From: | "Tom Wood" <twood(at)ucf.k12.pa.us> |
Does anyone know whether the 601XL zodiac will qualify for the proposed
sport plane catagory?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Steer" <bsteer(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601 XL Sport Plane Catagory |
It doesn't appear that, with an advertised stall speed of 49 mph with flaps,
it will
meet the 44 mph stall speed criteria.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Wood" <twood(at)ucf.k12.pa.us>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 4:30 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac 601 XL Sport Plane Catagory
>
> Does anyone know whether the 601XL zodiac will qualify for the proposed
> sport plane catagory?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Pinneo <George.Pinneo(at)trw.com> |
| Subject: | Splice plate tooling |
My rear splice plates, 3/16" 6061, 1994-era, plates meet the specs mailed out by
Chris H.
GGP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net> |
"engines-list(at)matronics.com" ,
"zenith-list(at)matronics.com"
Today was the day I would start my used 0-200. Everything was checked,
fuel, electrical, oil added. Well I sat in the cockpit and started to
turn on the appropriate switches. I then pulled the handle for the pull
starter. It turned several times and didn't fire up. Well it hasn't
been running in over a year. I figured it would take a little working.
Then I tried it again, while the starter was engaged , there was a loud
bang and the prop stopped cold. I got out to investigate and found that
the prop would not move. I got real nervous at this point. Once I
realized that something was wrong internally I started to look for the
likely suspect. I pulled the alternator off and found the the gear on
the alternator broke off completely. This stopped the motor from
turning. Then I looked to see if there was any more damage. Well I
found, when I took the starter off, that the engaging gear was ground
down very bad. I inspected the engine case gears and found that the
starter gear had only a bit of grazing and really didn't look to bad.
Now I'm left with a ton of questions. I called Wentworth Aircraft,
where I purchased the engine, and they said they would replace any parts
required. Which I found to be fair at this time. I also have some
ground up metal from the ground starter gear on internal parts of the
engine (gears, case and mag gears, ect.). How do I get these properly
cleaned up. Or do I let the oil carry it away when I finally do get it
started up.
Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated.
--
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Schemmel, Grant" <Schemmel(at)utmc.aeroflex.com> |
John
Having just finished my overhaul (under A&P supervision) I would recommend that
you wash down the whole area with mineral spirits, which will go down into the
sump. Then pull the sump off (not a big deal) and clean it out.
You might want to pull the sump and inspect it before you wash it down too, just
to see how much sludge is in there.
Grant Schemmel
601HDS - O-200
-----Original Message-----
From: John Tarabocchia [mailto:zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 3:28 PM
zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: O-200 Woes
Today was the day I would start my used 0-200. Everything was checked,
fuel, electrical, oil added. Well I sat in the cockpit and started to
turn on the appropriate switches. I then pulled the handle for the pull
starter. It turned several times and didn't fire up. Well it hasn't
been running in over a year. I figured it would take a little working.
Then I tried it again, while the starter was engaged , there was a loud
bang and the prop stopped cold. I got out to investigate and found that
the prop would not move. I got real nervous at this point. Once I
realized that something was wrong internally I started to look for the
likely suspect. I pulled the alternator off and found the the gear on
the alternator broke off completely. This stopped the motor from
turning. Then I looked to see if there was any more damage. Well I
found, when I took the starter off, that the engaging gear was ground
down very bad. I inspected the engine case gears and found that the
starter gear had only a bit of grazing and really didn't look to bad.
Now I'm left with a ton of questions. I called Wentworth Aircraft,
where I purchased the engine, and they said they would replace any parts
required. Which I found to be fair at this time. I also have some
ground up metal from the ground starter gear on internal parts of the
engine (gears, case and mag gears, ect.). How do I get these properly
cleaned up. Or do I let the oil carry it away when I finally do get it
started up.
Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated.
--
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graham Byass" <gbyass(at)cygnus.uwa.edu.au> |
| Subject: | Splice plate tooling |
Darryl
It may be related to your printer - I tried printing it out on a good
quality inkjet printer and had the same problems but when I used a laser
printer all was revealed.
Graham Byass
Western Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Darryl West
Sent: Tuesday, 13 February 2001 9:17
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Splice plate tooling
I have not been able to produce a totally legible print from the
601-splice-plate.pdf file downloaded from Zenair's builder website. The
light grey fine print dimensions on the sketches is very faint and missing
some detail on the printout, making it difficult to read the number values,
even on the best quality setting and blown up to 11"x17". The actual pdf
file can be magnified on-screen to reveal all details, but not the print. Is
everybody else having this problem also?
Darryl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Isaacs" <bob999(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Venturi on a 601 |
Yes, with the additional use of a vacuum reserve tank and check valve.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich" <rich(at)carol.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Venturi on a 601
>
> Are you talking about using the manifold vacuum for the vacuum
> instruments like the DG, artificial horizon, etc.?
>
> Rich
> 801
>
>
> Robert Isaacs wrote:
> >
> >
> > Has anyone tried to use the manifold vacuum w/ a reserve tank for those
> > using a Subaru engine I can't see why this won't work, you might have to
> > supplement it with a 4" Venturi.
> > Just asking? Any comments?
> >
> > Bob
> > N601XL
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca>
> > To: "Zenith list"
> > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 8:51 AM
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Venturi on a 601
> >
> > >
> > > Responding to the comment re use of a venturi on the 601, I've had my
4
> > > inch unit since build, placed below the upper longeron and above the
main
> > > spar on the passenger side. It has driven my AH well, and starts to
spin
> > up
> > > during takeoff. The AH is fully stabilized well before reaching 200
ft.
> > > The AH is a life-saver. The venturi is a real drag.
> > > Dave Austin 601HDS 912 with ARPLAST
> > > daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kent Brown" <kbplanner(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Splice plate tooling |
Just checked my splice plates, kit 6-4046, Nov '99, front plates OK, but
will need the 4130 rear plates.
Kent
----- Original Message -----
From: Norris <rnorris4(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Splice plate tooling
>
> Bill Morelli wrote:
>
> > For you builders that are weight conscious, each 4130 rear plate weights
1.5
> > lbs more than the 6061 plate for an increase in gross weight of 3.0 lbs.
>
> Actually it results in an increase in empty weight. Gross weight stays
> the same. I need new rear plates also, but I don't know yet if I have to
> use the 4130 or can get away with Al. Does ANYONE have Zenair produced
> plates that meet the specs?
>
> Rob Norris
> One step forward, two steps back.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kent Brown" <kbplanner(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Splice plate tooling |
I had same problem with two different printers, and finally just wrote the
numbers on by hand.
Kent
----- Original Message -----
From: Darryl West <rdwest(at)cadvision.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Splice plate tooling
>
> I have not been able to produce a totally legible print from the
> 601-splice-plate.pdf file downloaded from Zenair's builder website. The
> light grey fine print dimensions on the sketches is very faint and missing
> some detail on the printout, making it difficult to read the number
values,
> even on the best quality setting and blown up to 11"x17". The actual pdf
> file can be magnified on-screen to reveal all details, but not the print.
Is
> everybody else having this problem also?
>
> Darryl
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net> |
"Schemmel, Grant" wrote:
>
> John
>
> Having just finished my overhaul (under A&P supervision) I would recommend that
you wash down the whole area with mineral spirits, which will go down into
the sump. Then pull the sump off (not a big deal) and clean it out.
>
> You might want to pull the sump and inspect it before you wash it down too, just
to see how much sludge is in there.
>
> Grant Schemmel
> 601HDS - O-200
>
Hi Grant,
Your suggestion mirrors what my mechanic suggested. The engine never really started.
So I think that the particles are confined to the gear case area. After
doing this I will have my mechanic take a look. If there is any
evidence of particle going beyond the case, I will tear the whole thing down.
At that point with the engine disassembled I think I will bite the bullet and
overhaul it.
I'm curious as to your own overhaul. I will definitely want to do it myself too.
But I don't have the luxury of the airport and my A&P nearby. I have an overhaul
manual and lots of people that I can get good advice from.
Was it overly complicated or is just follow the manual. I have a good solid idea
as to the way it should be done. But that isn't the same a experience. I would
also like to do with new millennium cylinders. Also have the
crank and cam sent out ot get reconditioned.
Any tips would be greatly appreciated.... I would also like to that you for your
suggestion...
--
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thilo Kind" <m_tkind(at)sprynet.com> |
Hi folks,
have a problem. I installed the Engine Information System (EIS)from Grand
Rapid Technology in my 601 HDS with Rotax 912. The unit is performing as
advertised; I can highly recommend it.
Besides other parameters, the EIS shows the RPM of the engine. However, the
EIS allows to select several different screen; not all of them show the RPM.
151 SQ from A/S made for the Rotax 912). This tach gets the signal from the
same wire than the EIS. In the lower RPM range (below 3000 RPM) both units
display the same RPMs. However, as soon as the RPM exceeds 3000 RPM, the
needle of the Micro - 1000 goes immediately all the way around and stops at
the 6 o'clock position. The EIS on the other hand works fine throughout the
whole RPM range.
I have no explanation for that. I tried already several options:
- the RPM signal wire was replaced with a shielded wire
- the EIS was disconnected (only the Micro - 1000 was connected)
- the Micro - 1000 was exchanged against a new unit
All measurements showed no success. Anybody with an idea? Anybody has an
address, where I can contact the manufacturer?
Thanks, folks
Thilo Kind
25.1 hours so far - this a great flying machine
Thilo Kind m_tkind(at)sprynet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dick Baner <db8(at)mtco.com> |
Thilo, I suggest that you call Greg at EIS and explain your problem to him.
Even though the problem does not seem to be with his instrument he is always
very willing to work out problems for users and may be able to help. I am no
one to give advice on electrical matters but I seem to recall that the tach
settings can be extremely tricky and sometimes on what version of the instrument
you have. Also some of the sender lines have resistors built into the line and
could affect the other tach as you said the same source line went to both
instruments. Anyway greg may have the answer on the tip of his brain and he is
a pleasant guy to talk to in any event. Dick Baner
Thilo Kind wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> have a problem. I installed the Engine Information System (EIS)from Grand
> Rapid Technology in my 601 HDS with Rotax 912. The unit is performing as
> advertised; I can highly recommend it.
>
> Besides other parameters, the EIS shows the RPM of the engine. However, the
> EIS allows to select several different screen; not all of them show the RPM.
> 151 SQ from A/S made for the Rotax 912). This tach gets the signal from the
> same wire than the EIS. In the lower RPM range (below 3000 RPM) both units
> display the same RPMs. However, as soon as the RPM exceeds 3000 RPM, the
> needle of the Micro - 1000 goes immediately all the way around and stops at
> the 6 o'clock position. The EIS on the other hand works fine throughout the
> whole RPM range.
>
> I have no explanation for that. I tried already several options:
> - the RPM signal wire was replaced with a shielded wire
> - the EIS was disconnected (only the Micro - 1000 was connected)
> - the Micro - 1000 was exchanged against a new unit
>
> All measurements showed no success. Anybody with an idea? Anybody has an
> address, where I can contact the manufacturer?
>
> Thanks, folks
>
> Thilo Kind
> 25.1 hours so far - this a great flying machine
>
> Thilo Kind m_tkind(at)sprynet.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joey Powell <joeypowell(at)earthlink.net> |
on 2/13/01 5:28 PM, John Tarabocchia at zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net wrote:
>
>
> Today was the day I would start my used 0-200. Everything was checked,
> fuel, electrical, oil added. Well I sat in the cockpit and started to
> turn on the appropriate switches. I then pulled the handle for the pull
> starter. It turned several times and didn't fire up. Well it hasn't
> been running in over a year. I figured it would take a little working.
> Then I tried it again, while the starter was engaged , there was a loud
> bang and the prop stopped cold. I got out to investigate and found that
> the prop would not move. I got real nervous at this point. Once I
> realized that something was wrong internally I started to look for the
> likely suspect. I pulled the alternator off and found the the gear on
> the alternator broke off completely. This stopped the motor from
> turning. Then I looked to see if there was any more damage. Well I
> found, when I took the starter off, that the engaging gear was ground
> down very bad. I inspected the engine case gears and found that the
> starter gear had only a bit of grazing and really didn't look to bad.
>
> Now I'm left with a ton of questions. I called Wentworth Aircraft,
> where I purchased the engine, and they said they would replace any parts
> required. Which I found to be fair at this time. I also have some
> ground up metal from the ground starter gear on internal parts of the
> engine (gears, case and mag gears, ect.). How do I get these properly
> cleaned up. Or do I let the oil carry it away when I finally do get it
> started up.
>
> Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated.
>
> --
>
> John W. Tarabocchia
>
> 601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
>
> Airframe 100% Complete...
> Installing Wire and Engine...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
If anyone knows a more reliable way to clean out an engine than taking it
completely to pieces - I'd like to hear it!
Joey Powell
801 kit to be collected next month
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Wood <mawood(at)zoo.uvm.edu> |
> > Having just finished my overhaul (under A&P supervision) I would
> recommend that you wash down the whole area with mineral spirits, which
> will go down into the sump. Then pull the sump off (not a big deal) and
> clean it out.
> Grant Schemmel
> > 601HDS - O-200
>
>Hi Grant,
>Your suggestion mirrors what my mechanic suggested. ....
>I'm curious as to your own overhaul. I will definitely want to do it
>myself too. But I don't have the luxury of the airport and my A&P
>nearby. I have an overhaul manual and lots of people that I can get good
>advice from.
>Was it overly complicated or is just follow the manual. I have a good
>solid idea as to the way it should be done. But that isn't the same a
>experience. I would also like to do with new millennium cylinders. Also
>have the crank and cam sent out ot get reconditioned.
>
>Any tips would be greatly appreciated.... I would also like to that you
>for your suggestion...
>John W. Tarabocchia
>601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
John
I am rebuilding my O-200 as a winter project (I can do this in the basement
rather than out in the cold garage) Aircraft Spruce has a video on
rebuilding the O-200 which sells for $25. Not a bad price for some peace of
mind.
Mark Wood
N221MW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Melanie @ Thilo Kind" <m_tkind(at)sprynet.com> |
Hi Dick,
I talked already with Greg. He indeed is a very helpful guy and very
knowledagble, but couldn't help me with the tach.
Best regards
Thilo Kind
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Baner <db8(at)mtco.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tach
>
> Thilo, I suggest that you call Greg at EIS and explain your problem to
him.
> Even though the problem does not seem to be with his instrument he is
always
> very willing to work out problems for users and may be able to help. I am
no
> one to give advice on electrical matters but I seem to recall that the
tach
> settings can be extremely tricky and sometimes on what version of the
instrument
> you have. Also some of the sender lines have resistors built into the
line and
> could affect the other tach as you said the same source line went to both
> instruments. Anyway greg may have the answer on the tip of his brain and
he is
> a pleasant guy to talk to in any event. Dick Baner
>
> Thilo Kind wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > have a problem. I installed the Engine Information System (EIS)from
Grand
> > Rapid Technology in my 601 HDS with Rotax 912. The unit is performing as
> > advertised; I can highly recommend it.
> >
> > Besides other parameters, the EIS shows the RPM of the engine. However,
the
> > EIS allows to select several different screen; not all of them show the
RPM.
TA
> > 151 SQ from A/S made for the Rotax 912). This tach gets the signal from
the
> > same wire than the EIS. In the lower RPM range (below 3000 RPM) both
units
> > display the same RPMs. However, as soon as the RPM exceeds 3000 RPM, the
> > needle of the Micro - 1000 goes immediately all the way around and stops
at
> > the 6 o'clock position. The EIS on the other hand works fine throughout
the
> > whole RPM range.
> >
> > I have no explanation for that. I tried already several options:
> > - the RPM signal wire was replaced with a shielded wire
> > - the EIS was disconnected (only the Micro - 1000 was connected)
> > - the Micro - 1000 was exchanged against a new unit
> >
> > All measurements showed no success. Anybody with an idea? Anybody has an
> > address, where I can contact the manufacturer?
> >
> > Thanks, folks
> >
> > Thilo Kind
> > 25.1 hours so far - this a great flying machine
> >
> > Thilo Kind m_tkind(at)sprynet.com
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Schemmel, Grant" <Schemmel(at)utmc.aeroflex.com> |
Hi John
In my case, I bought an engine from a wrecked 150, and didn't get the logs with
it, so because of that fact, and because I found oil in the mags I decided to
do the teardown. Turns out to be a good thing too, as 3 of the 4 cylinders were
cracked, with the 4th beyond limits.
I ended up getting 4 new cyl. assys from ECI. It also pays to shop around for
parts - I got a bunch of them from Don George Aircraft in Florida, some from Sacramento
Sky Ranch, and some from El Reno Air, but they are pretty pricey. As
to the process itself, I pretty much just followed the latest revision of the
overhaul manual. I only had a few questions for my A&P while doing so. Mostly
it's pretty straightforward, with the only real tricky part being the case
reassembly. One bit of advice I got from my A&P I should pass on - instead of
buying all the different gasketing compounds recommended by TCM, use Permatex
Ultra Copper for most everything. It's good to 700F, makes a great seal, and
cleans up pretty easily.
I sent all of my internal steel parts off to Aircraft Specialties for magnafluxing
and balancing (except the cam, which was beyond limits). I also sent the
case off to Divco to be lapped and line bored, as my A&P says o-200's tend to
get a bit larger in the center bearing area over time. They did a really nice
job too.
Replaced most of the parts recommended by the overhaul SB from the TCMLink website,
and did all my parts cleaning with either mineral spirits or carb cleaner
out in my garage. Everything else I did in my basement. Now that most everything
is together, I have to find a way to get the engine back out to the garage.
Hope this helps.
Grant Schemmel
-----Original Message-----
From: John Tarabocchia [mailto:zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: O-200 Woes
"Schemmel, Grant" wrote:
>
> John
>
> Having just finished my overhaul (under A&P supervision) I would recommend that
you wash down the whole area with mineral spirits, which will go down into
the sump. Then pull the sump off (not a big deal) and clean it out.
>
> You might want to pull the sump and inspect it before you wash it down too, just
to see how much sludge is in there.
>
> Grant Schemmel
> 601HDS - O-200
>
Hi Grant,
Your suggestion mirrors what my mechanic suggested. The engine never really started.
So I think that the particles are confined to the gear case area. After
doing this I will have my mechanic take a look. If there is any
evidence of particle going beyond the case, I will tear the whole thing down.
At that point with the engine disassembled I think I will bite the bullet and
overhaul it.
I'm curious as to your own overhaul. I will definitely want to do it myself too.
But I don't have the luxury of the airport and my A&P nearby. I have an overhaul
manual and lots of people that I can get good advice from.
Was it overly complicated or is just follow the manual. I have a good solid idea
as to the way it should be done. But that isn't the same a experience. I would
also like to do with new millennium cylinders. Also have the
crank and cam sent out ot get reconditioned.
Any tips would be greatly appreciated.... I would also like to that you for your
suggestion...
--
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Maloney <kmaloney(at)lsil.com> |
I am scratch building but double checked my plates anyway. The larger
holes that come in pairs seem to be the only ones covered by the service
request. Mine are well within tolarence, but the last one of the top
three smaller holes is down to 8mm due to the angle on the top of the
plate. I've double checked the plans and everything is dimentionaly
correct. Are the 3/16 plates supplied by Zenith this way or do they
have more edge distance on that last top hole? I guess you could angle
the line of holes to match the splice plate, but I kept mine in the
center of the extrusion flange.
Thanks,
Keith Maloney
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | 701 rear fuselage bulkhead plans errors |
Listers:
Could 701 builders please advise how they addressed the following: On
plans page 7.F.2.3, the rear bottom fuselage skin is cut out 156 mm wide (78
x 2) at the location of the rear bulkhead (7.F.1.3) and cut out 247 mm wide
(123.5 x 2) at the location of the front bulkhead (7.F.1.4), yet on plans
page 7.F.1, they have you construct the rear bulkheads 6mm wider, 162 mm &
253 mm respectively. Of course once you attach the longerons (following the
plans) to the bottom rear fuselage skin, it is 6mm too narrow and the
bulkheads won't fit without jamming them in and creating a bulge. This is
not addressed in the 240 plus corrections available from ZA. I am plans
building so I can just scrap my perfectly good bulkheads I made according to
the plans and build another set that will actually fit the fuselage. Could
a kit builder measure these parts and fuselage widths as furnished by ZA and
advise how they differ from the plans? Could other plans builders advise
how they addressed this error? 6mm isn't much, but it's a fair distance to
spread the longerons. All help is appreciated.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, 701 plans, started out strong but stalled by the plans
again
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tom tiedman" <ttiedman(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Splice plates |
Hi Keith, I'm scratchbuilding mine also. That most inboard 5/16" hole you
mention was the most difficult to get proper edge distance (on the smaller
plate, because of the angle on the top edge of the splice plate). If I was
at 11.2mm as in the plans, then I would wind up too close to the lower edge
of the spar cap... and vice versa. I split the 29mm distance between the top
edge of the plate and bottom edge of the spar cap at that bolt location,
drew a center line, and to make double sure I didn't get too close to either
edge, I then drew 5/16" parallel lines, with the previously drawn center
line as their center line also. This was so I could watch as the drill bit
bit, to make sure no part of the drill touched either parallel line. When
done, The edge distances on that hole turned out to be about 10-1/4mm to the
top edge of the splice plate, and 10-1/2mm to the bottom edge of the cap, so
my drill did want to travel north a teeny bit. Using 1/4" splice plates, I
am not concerned about the 10-1/4mm top edge distance at those two inboard
bolt locations. In my 1993 plans, Chris says 10mm is minimum acceptable
anyway, so I just squeaked by there! Drilling with proper edge distance was
also simplified by having the smaller plates facing up when setting the wing
dihedral and drilling your splice plate bolt holes. If you can keep the bolt
holes in the smaller plates to proper edge distance while drilling, you know
the larger plates underneath, hidden from view, will have proper edge
distance, being that they are larger and all. I guess the only way to
achieve the desired 11.2mm edge distance on that pesky inboard 5/16" bolt
would be to decrease the angle of the wing dihedral. Not me, I'll keep the
dihedral to plan, as I'm after a more stable, less touchy control feel. Hope
this helps all the scratchbuilders. Tom
>From: Keith Maloney <kmaloney(at)lsil.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "zenith-list(at)matronics.com"
>Subject: Zenith-List: Splice plates
>Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:41:39 -0700
>
>
> I am scratch building but double checked my plates anyway. The larger
>holes that come in pairs seem to be the only ones covered by the service
>request. Mine are well within tolarence, but the last one of the top
>three smaller holes is down to 8mm due to the angle on the top of the
>plate. I've double checked the plans and everything is dimentionaly
>correct. Are the 3/16 plates supplied by Zenith this way or do they
>have more edge distance on that last top hole? I guess you could angle
>the line of holes to match the splice plate, but I kept mine in the
>center of the extrusion flange.
>
>Thanks,
>Keith Maloney
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tom tiedman" <ttiedman(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601 XL Sport Plane Catagory |
Nope, HDS stall speed's too high. I'm hoping the HD qualifys, I think it
will just squeak by. Tom
>From: "Tom Wood" <twood(at)ucf.k12.pa.us>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac 601 XL Sport Plane Catagory
>Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 13:30:15 -0800
>
>
>Does anyone know whether the 601XL zodiac will qualify for the proposed
>sport plane catagory?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Jensen <jensenm(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Splice Plate tooling |
Received my rear splice plates from Zenith, without tooling but a list of tools
that are needed. I would like to be placed on the list of builders who are sharing
the tooling. I will then pass them on to the next builder.
601HDS, Jabiru 3300, 90% (??).
Jerry Jensen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Schemmel, Grant" <Schemmel(at)utmc.aeroflex.com> |
Hi John
In my case, I bought an engine from a wrecked 150, and didn't get the logs with
it, so because of that fact, and because I found oil in the mags I decided to
do the teardown. Turns out to be a good thing too, as 3 of the 4 cylinders were
cracked, with the 4th beyond limits.
I ended up getting 4 new cyl. assys from ECI. It also pays to shop around for
parts - I got a bunch of them from Don George Aircraft in Florida, some from Sacramento
Sky Ranch, and some from El Reno Air, but they are pretty pricey. As
to the process itself, I pretty much just followed the latest revision of the
overhaul manual. I only had a few questions for my A&P while doing so. Mostly
it's pretty straightforward, with the only real tricky part being the case
reassembly. One bit of advice I got from my A&P I should pass on - instead of
buying all the different gasketing compounds recommended by TCM, use Permatex
Ultra Copper for most everything. It's good to 700F, makes a great seal, and
cleans up pretty easily.
I sent all of my internal steel parts off to Aircraft Specialties for magnafluxing
and balancing (except the cam, which was beyond limits). I also sent the
case off to Divco to be lapped and line bored, as my A&P says o-200's tend to
get a bit larger in the center bearing area over time. They did a really nice
job too.
Replaced most of the parts recommended by the overhaul SB from the TCMLink website,
and did all my parts cleaning with either mineral spirits or carb cleaner
out in my garage. Everything else I did in my basement. Now that most everything
is together, I have to find a way to get the engine back out to the garage.
Hope this helps.
Grant Schemmel
-----Original Message-----
From: John Tarabocchia [mailto:zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: O-200 Woes
"Schemmel, Grant" wrote:
>
> John
>
> Having just finished my overhaul (under A&P supervision) I would recommend that
you wash down the whole area with mineral spirits, which will go down into
the sump. Then pull the sump off (not a big deal) and clean it out.
>
> You might want to pull the sump and inspect it before you wash it down too, just
to see how much sludge is in there.
>
> Grant Schemmel
> 601HDS - O-200
>
Hi Grant,
Your suggestion mirrors what my mechanic suggested. The engine never really started.
So I think that the particles are confined to the gear case area. After
doing this I will have my mechanic take a look. If there is any
evidence of particle going beyond the case, I will tear the whole thing down.
At that point with the engine disassembled I think I will bite the bullet and
overhaul it.
I'm curious as to your own overhaul. I will definitely want to do it myself too.
But I don't have the luxury of the airport and my A&P nearby. I have an overhaul
manual and lots of people that I can get good advice from.
Was it overly complicated or is just follow the manual. I have a good solid idea
as to the way it should be done. But that isn't the same a experience. I would
also like to do with new millennium cylinders. Also have the
crank and cam sent out ot get reconditioned.
Any tips would be greatly appreciated.... I would also like to that you for your
suggestion...
--
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron dewees" <rdewees(at)mindspring.com> |
Hi fellow builders..
I have sent for my new plates and have read with interest the procedures
for re-centering holes in new plates. I got a new Harbor Freight
catalog today and saw an item I never noticed before. It was a
self-centering hinge drill. I think it's for sinking hinge screws in the
exact center of hinge plates on doors. It has a tapered brass collar
around a 1/8" drill bit and does what we need to do.. center a small
pilot hole in a second surface without danger of scoring the original
hole. It was only $3.00 and I will send for it if others think it would
do the job.
Ron DeWees
601HDS/TD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shay King" <shaking(at)eircom.net> |
Dear List,
I'll soon be doing my first 701 wingtip. So far the
dimensions given, with revisions, don't seem to make a lot of sense.
Are the cut lines in the top and bottom skins meant to be straight or
curved?
Should the top and bottom skins end at the end of the tip rib?
If anyone can give me a few tips, [pardon the pun], I'd be very
grateful.
Regards,
Shay King.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "L.D. Pahnke" <ldpahnke(at)netwitz.net> |
| Subject: | Re: splice plates |
. I got a new Harbor Freight
catalog today and saw an item I never noticed before. It was a
self-centering hinge drill.
Ron, I have this tool and believe it would be too small. Hinge screw holes
are #10 and this tool is about that size. It would not center properly in a
3/8th in. hole in my opinion. A better investment for not much more would
be Harbor Freights' set of transfer punches which are designed for this
purpose. Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net> |
| Subject: | Re: splice plates |
Ron,
My only concern with that is it may be difficult to keep the drill straight.
You need to drill the first couple of pilot holes with the new plate clamped
to the OB spar. Since you have to use hand drill I would be leary about
making sure that everything is perfectly square. Seems like you could be
slightly off with the tapered collar. With the drill guides that ZAC calls
out, there is no danger of that happening as the drill guide fits snugly
inside the 3/8" hole in the spar.
Just my two cents worth.
The drill guides from McMaster-Carr are about $7.00 each.
Regards,
Bill
>It has a tapered brass collar
>around a 1/8" drill bit and does what we need to do.. center a small
>pilot hole in a second surface without danger of scoring the original
>hole. It was only $3.00 and I will send for it if others think it would
>do the job.
>Ron DeWees
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fhulen" <fhulen(at)gabs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: splice plates |
> The drill guides from McMaster-Carr are about $7.00 each.
> Regards,
> Bill
++ Bill, how serviceable will these guides and things be after being used,
handed off to another builder, and so forth, on and on. Assuming each
builder only needs to do rear plates, that's 20 holes per builder. 6
builders X 20 holes will be 120 holes through this guide. Will the guides
be likely to hold close enough tolerances by the time it gets to the 6 th.
builder, or even further on down the line?
Fred
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 701 rear fuselage bulkhead plans errors |
Randy, I'm building from kit. My skins were dimensioned as per plans. Also,
my bottom skin had pilot holes to locate the placement of 7.F.1.4 and
7.F.1.3. All I had to do was drill through the center of the flanges to
establish bulkhead placement. This is apparently idiot proofed, right??
Here's what happened. When I attached the side skins to the bulkheads, the
bulkheads seemed to be too narrow for the fuselage position that ZAC
committed me to by virtue of the predrilled bottom skin. I had to reposition
the bulkheads slightly at the top in order to get an acceptable rivet
seating. Now, I'm left with a bulkhead-to-bulkhead distance greater than the
plans call for. Since the stabilizer supports MUST be attached with A5
rivets ON the bulkhead rivet lines, I have no latitude to move these supports
to and fro. Without this latitude, I cannot "trap" the stabilizer mounting
flanges with proper edge distance for the bolt holes. My solution will be to
make WIDER stabilizer supports with a few extra rivets added. IMHO, the kit
has some "problems" in this area also! If I were you, I'd just use common
sense and build a couple of bulkheads that fit YOUR fuselage and will
properly accept YOUR stabilizer supports based on YOUR stabilizer flange
measurements. Stan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net> |
| Subject: | Re: splice plates |
Fred,
The guides appeared to be made out of some sort of hardened steel but I
honestly can't say how long they would last.
I just looked in the McMaster-Carr catalog. They are actually called drill
bushings. The description says they are made from case hardened steel with a
Rockwell C scale hardness of 62-65. Of course that means nothing to me.
Regards,
Bill - 8.2 flight hours - 18 landings
>++ Bill, how serviceable will these guides and things be after being used,
>handed off to another builder, and so forth, on and on. Assuming each
>builder only needs to do rear plates, that's 20 holes per builder. 6
>builders X 20 holes will be 120 holes through this guide. Will the guides
>be likely to hold close enough tolerances by the time it gets to the 6 th.
>builder, or even further on down the line?
>Fred
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 701 wingtips |
Shay,
The lines ARE meant to be curved. There are "problems" with the plan
coordinates according to Nick. But I didn't know that at the time I built my
wings. I ended up adding an "L" to the end of the wingtip extension to bring
it out far enough to "catch" the skin (based on the erroneous data points I
had). So, in the end, my wings are a bit longer than called for. But there
are no real "forces" acting up way out there so what the heck, the tips are
unlikely to fall off. My experience was that it took me over 20 hours to
build the first wing tip and about 8 hours to complete the other one. If you
talk to Nick, he may tell you what he told me - just to draw a gentle curve
from the end of the wingtip extension to the rear spar. That's not much to
go on, I know. If you use the coordinates from the plans, you'll have to
"extend" the wingtip extension. Be very careful building these wingtips - I
inadvertantly built some washout into one of mine because, with nothing
"solid" out there to "anchor" things building gets tricky. Just ONE extra rib
out there would have made all the difference in the world for a firsttime
builder like me. I see a really big trim tab hanging off my future
airplane! stan.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron dewees" <rdewees(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: splice plates |
THanks Doug, I wondered if it would be large enough.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "L.D. Pahnke" <ldpahnke(at)netwitz.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: splice plates
>
> . I got a new Harbor Freight
> catalog today and saw an item I never noticed before. It was a
> self-centering hinge drill.
>
> Ron, I have this tool and believe it would be too small. Hinge screw holes
> are #10 and this tool is about that size. It would not center properly in
a
> 3/8th in. hole in my opinion. A better investment for not much more would
> be Harbor Freights' set of transfer punches which are designed for this
> purpose. Doug
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd(at)tstar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 wingtips |
Shay,
I made a sample tip skin out of cardboard, and kept trimming it till it fit
then transferred to metal. The wing top and bottom skins end at the curved
L's at the tip.
Chuck D.
----- Original Message -----
From: Shay King <shaking(at)eircom.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:34 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 wingtips
>
> Dear List,
> I'll soon be doing my first 701 wingtip. So far the
> dimensions given, with revisions, don't seem to make a lot of sense.
> Are the cut lines in the top and bottom skins meant to be straight or
> curved?
> Should the top and bottom skins end at the end of the tip rib?
> If anyone can give me a few tips, [pardon the pun], I'd be very
> grateful.
>
> Regards,
> Shay King.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ldpahnke" <ldpahnke(at)netwitz.net> |
| Subject: | Re: splice plates |
Hi All: I am not sure I understand the criteria for requesting 4130 plates
vs. 6061 alum. plates for replacement. I have a good copy of the
announcement from the web site but do not think I understand it properly.
What I think I am reading is that if the d distance on the spar extrusions
is between 6.0-9.9mm then the 4130 is called for. Is this d distance on the
spar extrusions or on on the splice plates? If it is the spar extrusions
where is the "inside edge"? Would there be any benefit to keeping the
original plates and making up a doubler plate in addition.Thanks for the
help Doug.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lanny A. Phillips" <lanny(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 rear fuselage bulkhead plans errors |
The skin is cut 3mm less on each side because that is about the amount of radius
on each longeron. When skin is riveted to longeron the radius will give you the
extra 3mm on each side.
Lanny A. Phillips 701Z
"Randy L. Thwing" wrote:
>
> Listers:
> Could 701 builders please advise how they addressed the following: On
> plans page 7.F.2.3, the rear bottom fuselage skin is cut out 156 mm wide (78
> x 2) at the location of the rear bulkhead (7.F.1.3) and cut out 247 mm wide
> (123.5 x 2) at the location of the front bulkhead (7.F.1.4), yet on plans
> page 7.F.1, they have you construct the rear bulkheads 6mm wider, 162 mm &
> 253 mm respectively. Of course once you attach the longerons (following the
> plans) to the bottom rear fuselage skin, it is 6mm too narrow and the
> bulkheads won't fit without jamming them in and creating a bulge. This is
> not addressed in the 240 plus corrections available from ZA. I am plans
> building so I can just scrap my perfectly good bulkheads I made according to
> the plans and build another set that will actually fit the fuselage. Could
> a kit builder measure these parts and fuselage widths as furnished by ZA and
> advise how they differ from the plans? Could other plans builders advise
> how they addressed this error? 6mm isn't much, but it's a fair distance to
> spread the longerons. All help is appreciated.
> Regards,
> Randy L. Thwing, 701 plans, started out strong but stalled by the plans
> again
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HOLCOMBE" <holcombe(at)oregonfast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 wingtips |
I second the, "just use common sense".
I made everything fit then didn't dare go back to the plans to see if I did
it right.
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HOLCOMBE" <holcombe(at)oregonfast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 wingtips |
Make the fiberglass tips fit nicely and look good, then cut the aluminum to
fit
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Tanner" <vk3auu(at)sympac.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 rear fuselage bulkhead plans errors |
I seem to remember having a bit of trouble with one or both of those rear
bulheads. The clue is to build the fuse first, then when you build the stab,
you can make the supports to fit. The same goes for the wing attachments.
The dimensions on the fuse do not quite agree with the dimensions on the
wings, so dont finish the inboard end of the wings until you have finished
the fuse. Also, do not drill the mounting holes for the slats until you are
ready to mount the slats to the leading edges of the wings. Also, do not
mount your battery until you have EVERYTHING finished and have done a
preliminary weight and balance, if you have an extended bagage compartment,
you probably need to put it just behind the large inspection door if you use
a 912. It could end up just about anywhere with other engines, just make
sure you keep the CoG well away from the forward limit or you will find out
what wheelbarrowing is the first time you land with the flaps and the power
off..
(Been there, done that)
David Tanner CH701 912UL 160 hours flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Mayne" <bazmay(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Just a quick question to all on the list,
What is the situation if you are not on the internet or subscribe to the
newsletter, has ZAC going to notify all builders about the splice plates or
are they relying on the grapevine to let everyone know. I am obviously on
the list and use the internet but what if I wasn't ? ZAC haven't sent me
anything about it and I only found out by information passed on to me by a
builder who exchanges information with me on engines. I know of three
builders down here in Australia who are not on the internet or use the
newsletter and I have no contact info on them so I don't know if they are
aware of the problem.
Interesting to hear how many of you guys have actually been contacted by
ZAC.
Barry Mayne HDS Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Swinford" <grs-pms(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Light-Conducting Fibers |
Hello, Zenith builders:
Does anyone know of a source of inexpensive light-conducting glass or
acrylic fibers? I'm looking for 20 to 25 inch lengths to conduct light for
illumination, not for optical data transmission, so the optical quality
needn't be too high. Also, I need a source of information telling me how to
work with such fibers. Any help will be much appreciated.
The intended application is non-electric fuel gauging.
George Swinford
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich <rich(at)carol.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Venturi on a 601 |
Is there some kind of blow by or dirt that would come from the intake
manifold to dirty up the gyros?
Vacuum line filters on both sides of the instruments can be used as well
as a regulator.
But I guess the engine would register it as some kind of manifold leak &
may have problems. Unless It can be tuned to compensate.
How much vacuum does an intake manifold for an O-360 produce anyway?
Has any thought been given to this?
Rich
clydes-shop(at)juno.com wrote:
>
>
> HI: Rich
> The use of manifold vacuum is too unreliable to use with gyros. They
> need to be kept real
> clean other wise the gyros are short lived ,I know because I am a retired
> Instrument Technician of 41 years experience. It works with vacuum pumps
> pumps or Venturi that use fans in front of it that is streamlined In
> remote areas
> >
> > Are you talking about using the manifold vacuum for the vacuum
> > instruments like the DG, artificial horizon, etc.?
> >
> > Rich
> > 801
> >
> >
> > Robert Isaacs wrote:
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > Has anyone tried to use the manifold vacuum w/ a reserve tank for
> > those
> > > using a Subaru engine I can't see why this won't work, you might
> > have to
> > > supplement it with a 4" Venturi.
> > > Just asking? Any comments?
> > >
> > > Bob
> > > N601XL
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca>
> > > To: "Zenith list"
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 8:51 AM
> > > Subject: Zenith-List: Venturi on a 601
> > >
> >
> > > >
> > > > Responding to the comment re use of a venturi on the 601, I've
> > had my 4
> > > > inch unit since build, placed below the upper longeron and above
> > the main
> > > > spar on the passenger side. It has driven my AH well, and
> > starts to spin
> > > up
> > > > during takeoff. The AH is fully stabilized well before reaching
> > 200 ft.
> > > > The AH is a life-saver. The venturi is a real drag.
> > > > Dave Austin 601HDS 912 with ARPLAST
> > > > daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Yours truly
> Clyde D. Ehlers
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fhulen" <fhulen(at)gabs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: splice plates |
> Barry,
> My first notice about the splice plates was a letter received in the mail.
> Yours is probably on a boat somewhere betwen Oz and Hawaii.
> Cliff
++ Seems to be hit-and-miss. I heard about a letter received by a local
builder in my area about 2 weeks ago, but I have never received one.
Fred
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: splice plates |
Barry Mayne wrote:
>
> Just a quick question to all on the list,
> What is the situation if you are not on the internet or subscribe to the
> newsletter, has ZAC going to notify all builders about the splice plates or
> are they relying on the grapevine to let everyone know. I am obviously on
> the list and use the internet but what if I wasn't ? ZAC haven't sent me
> anything about it and I only found out by information passed on to me by a
> builder who exchanges information with me on engines. I know of three
> builders down here in Australia who are not on the internet or use the
> newsletter and I have no contact info on them so I don't know if they are
> aware of the problem.
>
> Interesting to hear how many of you guys have actually been contacted by
> ZAC.
>
> Barry Mayne HDS Jabiru 3300
>
Interesting point. I'm a scratch builder and I definitely haven't receive a
notice. Come to think of it, I don't think that the factory could give a dam
about us plans buyers. Funny though' when I called to purchase supplies such
as rivets and small items, they don't mind talking to me then. I also love the
looks I get at the tent at Sun-N-Fun when I say Hello to Nick Heintz and
introduce myself as a scratch builder. I would have thought I had tree heads
or something. Are there any other scratch builders that get that feeling?
Just my observation......
Hey Barry.....You like that Jabiru. What this dawn 0-200 is going to cost me
now, I could have bought the 3300 and the firewall forward kit. Oh--Well, You
live and you learn....
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net> |
"engines-list(at)matronics.com" ,
"zenith-list(at)matronics.com"
| Subject: | 0-200 Woes...... |
Well after quite a bit of good information from fellow listers, my
mechanic, and my DAR (also A&P). I decided to tear down the case.
After careful inspection, I found that the metal fragments from the
starter gear, did travel beyond the accessory case. I found metal on
the rear piston bases, the rear connecting rods, and the crankshaft. I
weighed my options, taking into consideration my financial situation,
work involved, and the time SMOH, and decided to tear the motor down,
clean all internal parts, and inspect for damage. I will re-assemble
the case with all new gaskets. I will have to replace the crankshaft
gear which is the gear the starter clutch gear tore into. I decided to
do the top end with new OEM cylinder assemblies. The cheapest way to go
at this time, yet keep a good piece of mind.
Any thoughts would be very welcome. Thanks to all that sent me all that
valuable information and suggestions.
--
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | "Z" ' s around bottom fuse access 701 |
701 Listers:
I am just about ready to rivet traverse members to my lower rear
fuselage skin. Plans sheet no. 7.F.6 shows 2 pieces of "z" located on the
sides of the bottom skin access opening, example is at plan coordinates
(185,177). I cannot find a measurement specifiying how far outboard these
z's should be positioned. They don't seem to interact with other parts so I
could just pick a distance and it looks like it would probably work, but if
others who have been this way before have an opinion on where they should be
located, I would appreciate the benefit of their experience.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, 701 plans, 60 hp Franklin, 50.0001 complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matthew Mucker" <mmucker(at)airmail.net> |
>
> Interesting point. I'm a scratch builder and I definitely
> haven't receive a
> notice. Come to think of it, I don't think that the factory
> could give a dam
> about us plans buyers.
Um.... if you didn't buy splice plates from Zenith, why would they bother
telling you about a manufacturing defect? :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graham Byass" <gbyass(at)cygnus.uwa.edu.au> |
Barry
For what it is worth I am a scratch builder in Australia BUT I did buy the
spars and splice plates from ZAC and I have not heard from ZAC yet. I have
not got around to checking the splice plates yet but the odds are that they
will be out of spec.
Sometimes I think that the mail from the US comes to Australia via camel
train through Moscow of something similar.
Graham Byass
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Barry Mayne
Sent: Friday, 16 February 2001 11:14
Subject: Zenith-List: splice plates
Just a quick question to all on the list,
What is the situation if you are not on the internet or subscribe to the
newsletter, has ZAC going to notify all builders about the splice plates or
are they relying on the grapevine to let everyone know. I am obviously on
the list and use the internet but what if I wasn't ? ZAC haven't sent me
anything about it and I only found out by information passed on to me by a
builder who exchanges information with me on engines. I know of three
builders down here in Australia who are not on the internet or use the
newsletter and I have no contact info on them so I don't know if they are
aware of the problem.
Interesting to hear how many of you guys have actually been contacted by
ZAC.
Barry Mayne HDS Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brook" <walruss(at)optushome.com.au> |
| Subject: | "Z" ' s around bottom fuse access 701 |
I take it you are refering to the 2 longitudinal member thats go on either
side of the access door. The access door is approximately 500mm wide. You
really only have to put the Z's wide enough for teh door. I put my z spacing
at 560mm wide AT THE RIVETLINES, so that I have an inch or so either side of
the rivetlines. I'm going to be putting the door on with rivnuts so that it
can be easily removed if a problem comes up. Teh purpose of the z's is
simply to transfer the load that is carried in the skin to the transverse
member to the frame in such a way that the access hole and panel doesn't
take any excess load that could fail the skin. BAD BAD THING in a semi
monocoque structure.
Hope this helps,
mike 2 planes, 2 701's from kits 525 hours, working on fuses.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy L.
Thwing
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 5:15 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: "Z" ' s around bottom fuse access 701
701 Listers:
I am just about ready to rivet traverse members to my lower rear
fuselage skin. Plans sheet no. 7.F.6 shows 2 pieces of "z" located on the
sides of the bottom skin access opening, example is at plan coordinates
(185,177). I cannot find a measurement specifiying how far outboard these
z's should be positioned. They don't seem to interact with other parts so I
could just pick a distance and it looks like it would probably work, but if
others who have been this way before have an opinion on where they should be
located, I would appreciate the benefit of their experience.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, 701 plans, 60 hp Franklin, 50.0001 complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Douglas Corarito <dougc(at)infoequipt.com> |
| Subject: | 701 Dedalius Wings |
Has anyone considered the Dedalius wings for their 701?
I'm wondering why you did/didn't decide to go with the wings.
Does anyone know anybody that's flying with this system?
I'm interested in knowing performance numbers.
--
Doug
INFOequipt,Inc.
dougc(at)infoequipt.com
http://www.infoequipt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: splice plates |
In a message dated 2/16/01 5:58:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
billvt(at)together.net writes:
<< I was never notified of the splice plate issue. I heard about it on this
e-mail list and then went to the ZAC builders pages. I subscribe to the
newsletter but did not see any mention of the problem in the last
newsletter. >>
Same situation here...
Chris Carey
Richmond, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven J. Devine" <steve(at)tzogon.com> |
| Subject: | Re: splice plates: machine shop |
>
> I have an excellent relationship with a local/online machine shop... I am talking
> to them now about the possibility of them making up new plates for anyone
> who is interested. Will post further details when they become available.
Sounds like everyone is all set or close to it, given the hole transfer tool discussion
and such... but at least one person was asking about a machine shop willing
to transfer the holes, so here it is:
Custom Metal Products
78 Stone Place
Melrose, MA 02176
(781) 438-5300
http://www.cmproducts.com
Excellent facilities, sprectacular workmanship on the parts I've seen there and
the work they've done for me.
Steve
Steven J. Devine, President, Consultant, TZOGON Enterprises Incorporated
President, EAA Chapter 136 (LWM/Merrimac Valley)
steve@tzogon.com HAM Tech lic: N1YZJ http://www.tzogon.com
http://www.tzogon.com/~steve/glass_cockpit
http://www.tzogon.com/~steve/stolch801
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: "Z" ' s around bottom fuse access 701 |
>>>>>>>> I am just about ready to rivet traverse members to my lower rear
fuselage skin. Plans sheet no. 7.F.6 shows 2 pieces of "z" located on the
sides of the bottom skin access opening, example is at plan coordinates
(185,177). I cannot find a measurement specifiying how far outboard these
z's should be positioned. They don't seem to interact with other parts so I
could just pick a distance and it looks like it would probably work, but if
others who have been this way before have an opinion on where they should be
located, I would appreciate the benefit of their experience.
Randy, they certainly do interact with other parts. Look at the plans again,
and also the exploded diagram, and you'll see there really are 3 Zs. Two
along the sides of the access hole and one at the rear. To the front is the
bearing. Thus, you are constructing a reinforcement box around the access
hole. When you cut the Zs to specified length, you'll have answered your
question about placement. Take some precautions and plan ahead for what you
are going to do about the access hole. ZAC just says rivet it shut and drill
it out when you need to get in there. Instead, I chose to leave extra skin
between the hole and the Zs to act as a flange of sorts. Then I installed a
doubler on this flange and tinnerman plates. So my access door is secured
with a bunch of T6XB screws. By the way, the plans don't clearly show that
the Zs are attached to each other. I used scrap to link mine for added
rigidity.
Stan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerald Applefeld <jerryvmd(at)blazenet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: splice plates |
I'm a scratch builder of 601HD and I received my info on plates in the mail at
least
two weeks ago. I have nothing but good comments to say about customer sevice from
ZAC. My biggest complaint overall was that there were several pages missing from
my
original drawing/plans package that I didn't know were missing until I was ready
for
that part of the plane. eg. 6E5 drawing of throttle bellcrank and drawing on
installation of the brake cylinders on the rudder pedals. I bought my plans in
1994
at Oshkosh. Thought maybe these were updates and I fell through the cracks in
getting them, but when I called Missouri they said they should have been in the
original package. However they quickly provided the drawings at no charge.
Just my two cents.
John Tarabocchia wrote:
>
> Barry Mayne wrote:
>
> >
> > Just a quick question to all on the list,
> > What is the situation if you are not on the internet or subscribe to the
> > newsletter, has ZAC going to notify all builders about the splice plates or
> > are they relying on the grapevine to let everyone know. I am obviously on
> > the list and use the internet but what if I wasn't ? ZAC haven't sent me
> > anything about it and I only found out by information passed on to me by a
> > builder who exchanges information with me on engines. I know of three
> > builders down here in Australia who are not on the internet or use the
> > newsletter and I have no contact info on them so I don't know if they are
> > aware of the problem.
> >
> > Interesting to hear how many of you guys have actually been contacted by
> > ZAC.
> >
> > Barry Mayne HDS Jabiru 3300
> >
>
> Interesting point. I'm a scratch builder and I definitely haven't receive a
> notice. Come to think of it, I don't think that the factory could give a dam
> about us plans buyers. Funny though' when I called to purchase supplies such
> as rivets and small items, they don't mind talking to me then. I also love the
> looks I get at the tent at Sun-N-Fun when I say Hello to Nick Heintz and
> introduce myself as a scratch builder. I would have thought I had tree heads
> or something. Are there any other scratch builders that get that feeling?
>
> Just my observation......
>
> Hey Barry.....You like that Jabiru. What this dawn 0-200 is going to cost me
> now, I could have bought the 3300 and the firewall forward kit. Oh--Well, You
> live and you learn....
>
> John W. Tarabocchia
>
> 601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
> Airframe 100% Complete...
> Installing Wire and Engine...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Z" ' s around bottom fuse access 701 |
Thanks for the response, please notice I always give coordinates on the
plans page for the parts I am inquiring about, for example for one of these
z's, I mentioned plans page 7.F.6 coordinates (185,177). These are
measurements on the plans sheets measures in mm, the first number is
measured from the right border across, the second number is measured from
the the top border down, like a road map. It allows one to precisely locate
the parts one is refering to, or talking bout. I think your positioning the
z's about 560 wide is just about right.
Regards,
Randy
>
> I take it you are refering to the 2 longitudinal member thats go on either
> side of the access door. The access door is approximately 500mm wide. You
> really only have to put the Z's wide enough for teh door. I put my z
spacing
> at 560mm wide AT THE RIVETLINES, so that I have an inch or so either side
of
> the rivetlines. I'm going to be putting the door on with rivnuts so that
it
> can be easily removed if a problem comes up. Teh purpose of the z's is
> simply to transfer the load that is carried in the skin to the transverse
> member to the frame in such a way that the access hole and panel doesn't
> take any excess load that could fail the skin. BAD BAD THING in a semi
> monocoque structure.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>
>
> 701 Listers:
> I am just about ready to rivet traverse members to my lower rear
> fuselage skin. Plans sheet no. 7.F.6 shows 2 pieces of "z" located on the
> sides of the bottom skin access opening, example is at plan coordinates
> (185,177). I cannot find a measurement specifiying how far outboard these
> z's should be positioned. They don't seem to interact with other parts so
I
> could just pick a distance and it looks like it would probably work, but
if
> others who have been this way before have an opinion on where they should
be
> located, I would appreciate the benefit of their experience.
> Regards,
> Randy L. Thwing, 701 plans, 60 hp Franklin, 50.0001 complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Ingraham" <iflyul(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Dedalius Wings |
Hey Doug.....I considered using their wing and cost wise it appears to be
comparable.....If you check the builders on the net section of the Z site,
there's a guy by the name of Al Hartman who has a 701 with that wing and a
Rotax 912......He loves it.....I spoke to Sebastion H and he said Dedalius
was supposed to provide them with a wing to test fo strength and to date
they haven't done it.... Sebastion doesn't think it's built strong
enough.......good luck and fly safe.......Eric
>From: Douglas Corarito <dougc(at)infoequipt.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Dedalius Wings
>Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:42:10 -0500
>
>
>Has anyone considered the Dedalius wings for their 701?
>
>I'm wondering why you did/didn't decide to go with the wings.
>
>Does anyone know anybody that's flying with this system?
>
>I'm interested in knowing performance numbers.
>
>--
>
>
>Doug
>
>
>INFOequipt,Inc.
>dougc(at)infoequipt.com
>http://www.infoequipt.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net> |
I can't for the life of me find any info on the Zenith web site about
the notice. I thought someone had noted it could be found on the web
site. Does any one have a URL to link me to it?
--
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Z" ' s around bottom fuse access 701 |
----- Original Message -----
From: <Sjl219(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Z" ' s around bottom fuse access 701
>
>
I am just about ready to rivet traverse members to my lower rear
> fuselage skin. Plans sheet no. 7.F.6 shows 2 pieces of "z" located on the
> sides of the bottom skin access opening, example is at plan coordinates
> (185,177). I cannot find a measurement specifiying how far outboard these
> z's should be positioned. They don't seem to interact with other parts so
I
> could just pick a distance and it looks like it would probably work, but
if
> others who have been this way before have an opinion on where they should
be
> located, I would appreciate the benefit of their experience.
>
>
> Randy, they certainly do interact with other parts. Look at the plans
again,
> and also the exploded diagram, and you'll see there really are 3 Zs. Two
> along the sides of the access hole and one at the rear. To the front is
the
> bearing. Thus, you are constructing a reinforcement box around the access
> hole. When you cut the Zs to specified length, you'll have answered your
> question about placement. Take some precautions and plan ahead for what
you
> are going to do about the access hole. ZAC just says rivet it shut and
drill
> it out when you need to get in there. Instead, I chose to leave extra
skin
> between the hole and the Zs to act as a flange of sorts. Then I installed
a
> doubler on this flange and tinnerman plates. So my access door is
secured
> with a bunch of T6XB screws. By the way, the plans don't clearly show
that
> the Zs are attached to each other. I used scrap to link mine for added
> rigidity.
> Stan
Stan:
Thanks for the response, I fully appreciate that the side Z's interact
with other parts by the fact their aft ends overlap and are attached to the
rear Z, and their forward ends overlap and are attached to 7.F.6.1. But as
far as their outboard location near or away from the access opening, the
only other part that touches them is the short L that is placed on the
bottom skin after the Z's and 7.F.5.4 are located. I meant no other parts
rely on the outboard placement of the side Z's.
As far as "the plans don't clearly show that the Zs are attached to each
other", I'm one of the biggest critics of uncorrected plans mistakes and
lack of revisions when problems are known, but in this case, I believe the
plans clearly show the side Z's overlaping and being attached to the rear Z
(aft) and 7.F.6.1 (forward) on sheet 7.F.2 at the lower right hand corner,
and on 7.F.6 in the second diagram from the top, the top view of the bottom
skin. Again, there is just no spec. telling you how far "outboard" to
position the side Z's.
I normally would provide coordinates when refering to plans location, but my
full size plans are at home and I'm at the plant now where I only have
reduced size copies to refer to. The above is offered in the interest of
accuracy.
Thanks for the help,
Randy L. Thwing, 701 plans, 50.0002%
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Dedalius Wings |
701 Listers:
I recently weighed one of my completed ZA wings, less fuel tank, slats,
and tip: 23 lbs., say 55 lb. for the pair finished. My understanding is the
Dedalius wing, for which plans are not offered, is only available in a kit
for about $6000.00. This wing probably has less than $200.00 in material
contained in it, so from STRICTLY a plans builders perspective, I just
couldn't justify it.
I believe Al Hartman lives in Blue Diamond, NV which is near Las Vegas.
Last month, our EAA chapter went on a flyin breakfast to Stovepipe Wells, in
Northern Death Valley, about 100 miles from LV. I flew my 48 Bonanza to
attend, (38 airplanes & 60 plus people showed up) and when we walked from
the restaurant back to the strip, Al's 701 was parked there. As we arrived
before him, and departed before him, I didn't get a chance to speak to him,
but I know he flies regularly. I also believe he purchased the ship
complete (possibly from Flypass?) and didn't build it.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, 701 plans
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Dedalius Wings
>
> Hey Doug.....I considered using their wing and cost wise it appears to be
> comparable.....If you check the builders on the net section of the Z site,
> there's a guy by the name of Al Hartman who has a 701 with that wing and a
> Rotax 912......He loves it.....I spoke to Sebastion H and he said Dedalius
> was supposed to provide them with a wing to test fo strength and to date
> they haven't done it.... Sebastion doesn't think it's built strong
> enough.......good luck and fly safe.......Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Wood <mawood(at)zoo.uvm.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: splice plates |
>Zenith Aircraft and Flypass both know that I am a
>plans builder... worse than that, I purchased those
>plans second hand and the first service that Zenith
>Aircraft gave me was to transfer the ownership of
>those plans in their record.
>==========================================================
If you are a plans builder, why are you worried about the size of the
splice plates that ZAC has supplied with the kits???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Maloney <kmaloney(at)lsil.com> |
Opinion:
It appears to me that this was a manufacturing error because the plates
were cut too narrow or the holes drilled in the wrong place. The recall
is for edge distance from the inboard/outboard edges of the plates and
edge of the holes and the edge distance of the larger holes (3/8) and
the top of the plates. It does not address the edge distance of the
smaller holes (5/16) and the top of the plates. From reading everyone's
remarks it seems to me that people are using this recall to re-dimention
the the small holes, no where in this document does it say the plans are
wrong. Thus the most inboard of the small upper hole will not have 10mm
edge distance as shown in the recall. The planes call for 12.5mm from
center of hole to edge of plate, that's 8.5mm for dimension "d" at
best. Further more it gives a theoretical value that is even smaller.
If one were to build, without modification, to the plans there is no way
the dimensions could be held for that hole as required for the larger
holes. My point is this, if you are replacing your splice plates
because of the upper most inboard hole I think you are misinterpreting
the recall.
As far as Zenith and scratch builders go. As a scratch builder I've
asked several questions by e-mail and received prompted responses in all
cases. The one time I called in C. Heintz got on the phone himself and
took considerable time talking with me.
Keith Maloney
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Loer" <rloer(at)mighty.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Dedalius Wings |
The Dedalius wings are a copy (authorized or not I do not know but the guy
did have a Pegazair) of the Pegazair 100 STOL. I had one partially built
before being consumed by a fire. The slats are automatically deployed using
gravity and air pressure. Performance specs on this page are pretty accurate
according to those on the Pegazair news list that are flying them.
http://www.ultralightnews.com/plansbuyerguide/pegazair100stol.htm
Robert Loer
----- Original Message -----
From: Douglas Corarito <dougc(at)infoequipt.com>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:42 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Dedalius Wings
>
> Has anyone considered the Dedalius wings for their 701?
>
> I'm wondering why you did/didn't decide to go with the wings.
>
> Does anyone know anybody that's flying with this system?
>
> I'm interested in knowing performance numbers.
>
> --
>
>
> Doug
>
>
> INFOequipt,Inc.
> dougc(at)infoequipt.com
> http://www.infoequipt.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Douglas Corarito <dougc(at)infoequipt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Dedalius Wings |
Robert, Thanks for the link.
I saw cruise (75% ?) listed at 105 mph.
OK, those of you flying a 701+912, what are you seeing at "cruise"?
I'm not planning on building a 701 to go fast. However, I'm assuming
that one would go to a variable geometery wing with hopes of seeing a
significant increase in speed while still maintaining slow flight
STOL characteristics.
I need to know if this set of wings is worth it.
BTW - I tried to email Al Hartman (from the ZAC list) and it bounced.
Anybody have his email?
>
>The Dedalius wings are a copy (authorized or not I do not know but the guy
>did have a Pegazair) of the Pegazair 100 STOL. I had one partially built
>before being consumed by a fire. The slats are automatically deployed using
>gravity and air pressure. Performance specs on this page are pretty accurate
>according to those on the Pegazair news list that are flying them.
>
>http://www.ultralightnews.com/plansbuyerguide/pegazair100stol.htm
>
>Robert Loer
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Douglas Corarito <dougc(at)infoequipt.com>
>To:
>Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:42 AM
>Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Dedalius Wings
>
>
>>
>> Has anyone considered the Dedalius wings for their 701?
>>
>> I'm wondering why you did/didn't decide to go with the wings.
>>
>> Does anyone know anybody that's flying with this system?
>>
>> I'm interested in knowing performance numbers.
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>> INFOequipt,Inc.
>> dougc(at)infoequipt.com
>> http://www.infoequipt.com
>>
>>
>
>
--
Doug
INFOequipt,Inc.
dougc(at)infoequipt.com
http://www.infoequipt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Loer" <rloer(at)mighty.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Dedalius Wings |
By the way....
Here is the page for the Pegazair.
http://www.tapanee.com/index.html
Robert Loer
----- Original Message -----
From: Douglas Corarito <dougc(at)infoequipt.com>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:09 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Dedalius Wings
>
> Robert, Thanks for the link.
>
> I saw cruise (75% ?) listed at 105 mph.
>
> OK, those of you flying a 701+912, what are you seeing at "cruise"?
>
> I'm not planning on building a 701 to go fast. However, I'm assuming
> that one would go to a variable geometery wing with hopes of seeing a
> significant increase in speed while still maintaining slow flight
> STOL characteristics.
>
> I need to know if this set of wings is worth it.
>
>
> BTW - I tried to email Al Hartman (from the ZAC list) and it bounced.
> Anybody have his email?
>
>
> >
> >The Dedalius wings are a copy (authorized or not I do not know but the
guy
> >did have a Pegazair) of the Pegazair 100 STOL. I had one partially built
> >before being consumed by a fire. The slats are automatically deployed
using
> >gravity and air pressure. Performance specs on this page are pretty
accurate
> >according to those on the Pegazair news list that are flying them.
> >
> >http://www.ultralightnews.com/plansbuyerguide/pegazair100stol.htm
> >
> >Robert Loer
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Douglas Corarito <dougc(at)infoequipt.com>
> >To:
> >Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:42 AM
> >Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Dedalius Wings
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Has anyone considered the Dedalius wings for their 701?
> >>
> >> I'm wondering why you did/didn't decide to go with the wings.
> >>
> >> Does anyone know anybody that's flying with this system?
> >>
> >> I'm interested in knowing performance numbers.
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >> Doug
> >>
> >>
> >> INFOequipt,Inc.
> >> dougc(at)infoequipt.com
> >> http://www.infoequipt.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
>
>
> Doug
>
>
> INFOequipt,Inc.
> dougc(at)infoequipt.com
> http://www.infoequipt.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Meiste's" <meiste(at)essex1.com> |
List,
I have a nico swaging tool (screw down style) that has instructions that
state:
1st swag should be at the thimble (loop) end.
2nd swag should be in the middle of nico
3rd swag is made at the cut off end of nico.
From what I have read in the archives on the subject, everyone is swaging
the middle first, then the thimble (loop) end second, and last the cut end.
Just curious if there is any spec out there stating for a fact which
procedure is actually correct?
Thanks!
Kelly Meiste
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <wings1(at)videotron.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Light-Conducting Fibers |
Hi, George
I had a swimming pool installed last summer, and lighting is provided by
a central source and conducted by 3/4" (I guess) fiber optics cable to
different spots on the swimming pool wall.
You could disassemble the cable and use a few strands; they are about
1-2 mm in diameter.
I do not know what the cost is, but this certainly isn't high grade
material.
Try your local swimming pool store...
Carlos
>
> Hello, Zenith builders:
>
> Does anyone know of a source of inexpensive light-conducting glass or
> acrylic fibers? I'm looking for 20 to 25 inch lengths to conduct light for
> illumination, not for optical data transmission, so the optical quality
> needn't be too high. Also, I need a source of information telling me how to
> work with such fibers. Any help will be much appreciated.
>
> The intended application is non-electric fuel gauging.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darryl West" <rdwest(at)cadvision.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Splice plates |
http://www.zenithair.com/bldr/bldr.htm
Darryl
.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Tarabocchia" <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 10:00 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Splice plates
>
> I can't for the life of me find any info on the Zenith web site about
> the notice. I thought someone had noted it could be found on the web
> site. Does any one have a URL to link me to it?
>
> --
>
> John W. Tarabocchia
>
> 601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
>
> Airframe 100% Complete...
> Installing Wire and Engine...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nico Swaging |
| From: | Jim <jashford(at)hawaii.rr.com> |
Kelly,
As you make the three different swages the ????(whatcha ma call
it)lengthens. Swaging the center first "fixes" the location. I found that
gripping the cable end as close to the end as possible with vise grips,
pulling the cable tight around the thimble and then doing the center swage,
followed by the thimble end and then the opposite end, resulted in a tight
fit around the thimble and the swage lenghtening sufficiently(after removal
of vise grips) to almost cover the cut end of the cable. Where possible, use
a vise to hold the thimble.
Jim Ashford
> From: "The Meiste's" <meiste(at)essex1.com>
> Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:12:00 -0600
> To: "Zenith List"
> Subject: Zenith-List: Nico Swaging
>
>
> List,
> I have a nico swaging tool (screw down style) that has instructions that
> state:
> 1st swag should be at the thimble (loop) end.
> 2nd swag should be in the middle of nico
> 3rd swag is made at the cut off end of nico.
>
> From what I have read in the archives on the subject, everyone is swaging
> the middle first, then the thimble (loop) end second, and last the cut end.
>
> Just curious if there is any spec out there stating for a fact which
> procedure is actually correct?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kelly Meiste
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Raker <phadr2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: splice plates |
My first notice was by letter from ZAC, then about
three days later on this list.
Phil Raker: HDS/Stratus in NW MN (almost as remote as
Oz?)
--- fhulen wrote:
>
>
> > Barry,
> > My first notice about the splice plates was a
> letter received in the mail.
> > Yours is probably on a boat somewhere betwen Oz
> and Hawaii.
> > Cliff
>
> ++ Seems to be hit-and-miss. I heard about a letter
> received by a local
> builder in my area about 2 weeks ago, but I have
> never received one.
> Fred
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Reduction Drive from Ireland |
Good evening builders,
I've recently acquired a Subaru EA-81 that has been fitted with an
adapter for a Rotax Redrive.
I didn't take the drive unit because it wasn't the right ratio.
However, there is a Redrive on the web
called the RZ2 for Rotax from www.av8r.co.uk in ireland that has a
capacity for 120 hp and a centrifugal clutch that allows engagement at
1800 to 2100 rpm. It seems priced right and comes in several ratios.
Anyone have any experience with this unit? I'm very interested
Also, the EA-81 has hydraulic lifters. Does anyone have problems with
that?
Appreciative of all input and thanks,
Larry C. McFarland larrymc(at)qconline.com
At a year and 6 months, 601HDS tail feathers, center section complete
and wings are nearly done & I'm welding leading edge tanks after the
Pitot and strobe wiring are complete.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Tellet" <telletdl(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | 601 Stabilizer Skin Rivets |
I know this has been discussed a little before (in the archives), but I
still not sure about it. The plans call for A4 pitch 40 for the stabilizer
skin to the spars, but this means that on the top skin to the aft spar an A4
will go through the skin, the elevator hinge, the spar, and the spar
doubler. This seems to be too much material for the A4. It also means that
the doublers will be attached to the spar web with A5's and the spar flange
with A4's - doesn't seem right to me.
I have a fax question in to Zenith, but I was hoping for a quicker answer.
Can anybody clarify this for me? Is there a maximum thickness of joining
materials for the A4 and A5?
Thanks a lot.
David Tellet, 601HD, working on tail feathers.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PWalsh8045(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: splice plates |
I received a letter from ZAC about the plates......abnd received the plates 2
days after faxing the order form....Good company!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PWalsh8045(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: splice plates |
naaa...scratch builders would have met specs from the plans.....kits were
recalled from factory error....IMHO...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nico Swaging |
Kelly,
The Tony Begelis books and my tech advisor and DAR say that the correct way
to swage is 1 - center, 2 - thimble, 3 - cut off end
Bill
>1st swag should be at the thimble (loop) end.
>2nd swag should be in the middle of nico
>3rd swag is made at the cut off end of nico.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Dixon" <dix39(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nico Swaging |
I looked in AC 43.13-1A, Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices,
which shows the sequence being center first, thimble end, then opposite end,
just as Jim said. This must be the correct way.
Now, would someone please tell me how to access the plans changes (updates
?) for the 701? Also, is anyone on the list using a VW with a GP type
redrive on one of these?
Thanks.
Steve Dixon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim" <jashford(at)hawaii.rr.com>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nico Swaging
>
> Kelly,
>
> As you make the three different swages the ????(whatcha ma call
> it)lengthens. Swaging the center first "fixes" the location. I found that
> gripping the cable end as close to the end as possible with vise grips,
> pulling the cable tight around the thimble and then doing the center
swage,
> followed by the thimble end and then the opposite end, resulted in a tight
> fit around the thimble and the swage lenghtening sufficiently(after
removal
> of vise grips) to almost cover the cut end of the cable. Where possible,
use
> a vise to hold the thimble.
>
> Jim Ashford
>
> > From: "The Meiste's" <meiste(at)essex1.com>
> > Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> > Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:12:00 -0600
> > To: "Zenith List"
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Nico Swaging
> >
> >
> > List,
> > I have a nico swaging tool (screw down style) that has instructions that
> > state:
> > 1st swag should be at the thimble (loop) end.
> > 2nd swag should be in the middle of nico
> > 3rd swag is made at the cut off end of nico.
> >
> > From what I have read in the archives on the subject, everyone is
swaging
> > the middle first, then the thimble (loop) end second, and last the cut
end.
> >
> > Just curious if there is any spec out there stating for a fact which
> > procedure is actually correct?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Kelly Meiste
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Priming without fear |
One of the difficult thing during this project has
been familly relation while I was priming the parts.
My wife really gets pissed off by the smell of Zinc
Chromate (or Oxide). Once, I primed at night and the
smell woke her up... I thought she would leave me...
Well, all to say that I found a simple solution. So
stupid I am ashame that I did not do that before.
Yesterday, I purchased a fan that I inserted against
my garage window. It pushes the air (and heat) out.
Now, instead of pushing primer vapors through the
house, I pull air from it and there is no smell in the
house.
I even got an approval from my wife to prime at
night!!!
I am so happy with this that the fan is my picture of
the day for today.
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 Stabilizer Skin Rivets |
The grip range for the A4 rivet (Avex 1691-412, equiv
to Zenair's 1604-412) is .093" to .250". Frankly, we
all attached less than .093" of material with our
rivets and at .250", the A4 rivet does not work. I
tried to attach two pieces of 1/8" with it and the
rivet is too short (this may be because we re-shape
the rivet head?).
Regarding the stab application, there is 0.016 + 0.016
+ 0.040 + 0.040 + 0.025 = 0.137" of material. This is
well within specifications.
In doubt, you can always try it.
For the A5 rivet, the specified grip range is 0.125"
to 0.312" (for 1691-514 equiv to Zenair's 1604-514)
Michel
PS: When I say "equiv to Zenair's", I mean the the
dimensions are supposed to be the same. C. Heintz
mandates that we use the UK rivets (part no 1604).
Source: Advell Cherry Textron Breakstem Fastening
catalog, page 14 (Avex Fastening Systems)
--- David Tellet wrote:
>
>
> I know this has been discussed a little before (in
> the archives), but I
> still not sure about it. The plans call for A4
> pitch 40 for the stabilizer
> skin to the spars, but this means that on the top
> skin to the aft spar an A4
> will go through the skin, the elevator hinge, the
> spar, and the spar
> doubler. This seems to be too much material for the
> A4. It also means that
> the doublers will be attached to the spar web with
> A5's and the spar flange
> with A4's - doesn't seem right to me.
>
> I have a fax question in to Zenith, but I was hoping
> for a quicker answer.
> Can anybody clarify this for me? Is there a maximum
> thickness of joining
> materials for the A4 and A5?
>
> Thanks a lot.
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Meiste's" <meiste(at)essex1.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nico Swaging |
Thanks to all that replied with advice, looks like not much debate here.
Only wish the tool manufacturers could get it right.
This week at work I'll be doing a lot of destructive testing on nico's with
1/16 to 1/4" cable, I'll be swaging with all kinds of tools (everything
from hammer's and vises, to screw downs and the bolt cutter styles).
I'll also intentionally make some poor swages, & swages not made as
recommended by all you that replied. Hopefully by the end of the week I'll
have some test data I can share with anyone who is interested. Just seems
like this should be done as when scanning the achieves it seems this is the
one thing that brings down our planes most often (usually with fatal
results).
Thanks again to all the replies, and if anyone has a particular type of test
you would like me to try on a nico let me know & I'll do my best to simulate
it.
Kelly Meiste
601 HD a year from flying yet.
> List,
> I have a nico swaging tool (screw down style) that has instructions that
> state:
> 1st swag should be at the thimble (loop) end.
> 2nd swag should be in the middle of nico
> 3rd swag is made at the cut off end of nico.
>
> From what I have read in the archives on the subject, everyone is swaging
> the middle first, then the thimble (loop) end second, and last the cut
end.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net> |
I notice that a lot of listers are on AOL. Has anyone ever thought of
meeting in a chat room, Perhaps on a monthly meeting basis. Would be
kool to chat with a bunch of others real time. Also people who are on
AOL could download Instant Messenger (FREE) from http://www.aol.com and
chat with other AOL members......
I've also wonders if it would be neat to have association of Zodiac
Builder. I notice that a lot of other planes has groups. There seems
to be enough of us builders.
Just some thoughts......I know I think to much
--
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AWilson62(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: "Z" ' s around bottom fuse access 701 |
Hey guys, My 701 also has rivnuts all the way around. that is alot of work
putting them in and alot of work removing to inspect. I slowly got to the
point where I only use 5 screws. one on each side and 3 across the top. It
works fine and is secure. If i were to do it all over again I would make the
door, two doors that overlap. Kinda like bomb bay doors. They would be held
with a couple of spring clips. this is easy access so you can preflight
inside everyother flight and the door would not hit the ground when you open
it. I have been flying 34 hours now with just the 5 screws without any
problem.
Alan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim and Lucy <jpollard(at)mnsi.net> |
>ve also wonders if it would be neat to have association of Zodiac
>Builder. I notice that a lot of other planes has groups. There seems
>to be enough of us builders.
>
>Just some thoughts......I know I think to much
A chat room is allready set up at
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/zenithkitaircraft
I do not check it very often but I have never seen anyone
in it.
Jim Pollard
ch601hds
waiting for spar plates to
fix my 9.5mm edge distances.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Priming without fear |
At 08:14 2001.02.17., you wrote:
>
>One of the difficult thing during this project has
>been familly relation while I was priming the parts.
>My wife really gets pissed off by the smell of Zinc
>Chromate (or Oxide).
Zinc Chromate doesn't really have an odor. It is the toluene vehicle that
is the pungent smell. Maybe this sounds picky, but the zinc chromate is
known to cause cancer and birth defects, and you can't smell it after the
vehicle evaporates. Ever since reading about this stuff, I have tried to
look into what is the best way around it. My notes so far are on my
website http://www.liming.org/ch801 under the "research" and "corrosion"
links. It has a summary of the EAA video on corrosion in case you are
interested - bottom line - save your money and just read the summary.
I have never been at ease with this stuff. I have been doing some
investigation about it with few definitive answers. So far, I have used
the water based primer that ZAC had at their workshop (good stuff in that
it didn't smell, but they don't sell it.) I got some Zinc Oxide spray
(offered by Tempo who does the ZC and who says it is as good as ZC
protection wise, but without the health hazard. Others express doubt about
this, but I have yet to see anything other than just an opinion.
If anyone has some facts about ZC or the oxide or how it compares to self
etch epoxy primers, I would love to know.
Gary Liming
801 with cabin fever, waiting for warmer weather to start the wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Dedalius Wings |
At 06:42 2001.02.16., you wrote:
>
>Has anyone considered the Dedalius wings for their 701?
I know they don't offer it, but would something like that improve the speed
of the 801? The Va and Vne is set by other criteria about the structure,
so would a wing replacement help?
Gary Liming
801
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tom tiedman" <ttiedman(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re:splice plates,scratch-build ZAC support. |
Hi List, I received notice from ZAC here in Minnesota via U.S. mail,
regarding splice plates, that was postmarked Jan. 29th, before I even saw it
on the ZAC website. I bought my hand-drawn plans in 1993 (6-3089), and I'm
scratchbuilding, also. I have found over the years that ZAC has been
extremely helpful and speedy, whether I'm asking for advice, or buying a
part... at least they have been for me, a customer from early last decade,
and for that I'm grateful. So it has been my experience anyway that ZAC does
indeed care about their scratchbuilders as much as their kitbuilders, both
in passing along critical info. as well as in their after-purchase support.
I still have my splice plate information letter. I won't be needing it, and
would be happy to mail it along to anyone who hasn't received it yet or
anyone you know without a computer... first come, first served. Just send me
your street address to ttiedman(at)hotmail.com, and I'll mail it right out to
you! Tom
>From: John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: splice plates
>Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:50:57 -0500
>
>
>
>Barry Mayne wrote:
>
> >
> > Just a quick question to all on the list,
> > What is the situation if you are not on the internet or subscribe to the
> > newsletter, has ZAC going to notify all builders about the splice plates
>or
> > are they relying on the grapevine to let everyone know. I am obviously
>on
> > the list and use the internet but what if I wasn't ? ZAC haven't sent me
> > anything about it and I only found out by information passed on to me by
>a
> > builder who exchanges information with me on engines. I know of three
> > builders down here in Australia who are not on the internet or use the
> > newsletter and I have no contact info on them so I don't know if they
>are
> > aware of the problem.
> >
> > Interesting to hear how many of you guys have actually been contacted by
> > ZAC.
> >
> > Barry Mayne HDS Jabiru 3300
> >
>
>Interesting point. I'm a scratch builder and I definitely haven't receive
>a
>notice. Come to think of it, I don't think that the factory could give a
>dam
>about us plans buyers. Funny though' when I called to purchase supplies
>such
>as rivets and small items, they don't mind talking to me then. I also love
>the
>looks I get at the tent at Sun-N-Fun when I say Hello to Nick Heintz and
>introduce myself as a scratch builder. I would have thought I had tree
>heads
>or something. Are there any other scratch builders that get that feeling?
>
>Just my observation......
>
>Hey Barry.....You like that Jabiru. What this dawn 0-200 is going to cost
>me
>now, I could have bought the 3300 and the firewall forward kit. Oh--Well,
>You
>live and you learn....
>
>
>John W. Tarabocchia
>
>601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
>Airframe 100% Complete...
>Installing Wire and Engine...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Meiste's" <meiste(at)essex1.com> |
Need help from the "been there, done that" group.
I'm trying to install the left & right throttle rods on my 601. For you
guy's that have done this, what's the secret to installing these onto the
throttle bellcrank.
It's easy to assemble either the left or right separately, but installing
both rods to the bellcrank is imposable as I see it.
The slots in the firewall, and the vertical end rods do not allow enough
left & right movement of the bellcrank to engage one rod & then the other.
Sorry this may be confusing to many, but the guys that have done this should
know what I'm talking about.
Also for those of you who have not bent the throttle rod ends (that fit into
the vert rods on the bellcrank) be careful, they will crack if bent to
sharply.
Kelly Meiste
601 HD Tri-Gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel Pelletier" <pelletie1(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle Rods |
Hi Kelly,
I deal with the same problem. My throttle installation is as follow. I buy
at Canadian Tire two throttle friction lock T-handle who normally operate a
cable. I cut the cables and a part of the gain and make filets 1/4-28 and
fit an aluminium 1\4 rod with a jonction at the T-handle. At the other end,
I make filet 1\4-28 and fit a fork clevis with 3\16 hole. I make a hole in
the top of the bellcrank and fix the fork clevis to the rod with castlenuts
and cutterpin. I did the samething on the other side. With fillets, you
have adjustments for the both operation. My sole problem is to find a
swivel jonction 1\4-28 when I want to lock my throttle.
Hope it will serve you.
Regards
Daniel
601 HDS
>I'm trying to install the left & right throttle rods on my 601. For you
>guy's that have done this, what's the secret to installing these onto the
>throttle bellcrank.
>It's easy to assemble either the left or right separately, but installing
>both rods to the bellcrank is imposable as I see it.
>The slots in the firewall, and the vertical end rods do not allow enough
>left & right movement of the bellcrank to engage one rod & then the other.
>Sorry this may be confusing to many, but the guys that have done this
>should
>know what I'm talking about.
>Also for those of you who have not bent the throttle rod ends (that fit
>into
>the vert rods on the bellcrank) be careful, they will crack if bent to
>sharply.
>
>Kelly Meiste
>601 HD Tri-Gear
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Cindy" <cingar(at)mtco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle Rods |
Kelly, I just finished the throttle install a couple weeks ago. The first
thing is that the dimension for the bend on the rods looks like it says 70mm
on prints, but that can't be right. If you look at the handle end, the dim.
is 50mm and visually the bent part is about 50% of that, so I bent mine 25mm
and that worked fine. As far as sliding the bell crank back and forth to get
both rods installed, I installed the throttle bearings so that they are a
total of 40mm wider than the dimension of the outside of the vertical end
rods. That allows the bellcrank to slide about 15 mm in either direction,
and caused me to have to flex the throttle rod a small amount to get it into
the vertical end rod. Two washers and a cotter pin on each end of the
bellcrank stops any lateral movement when complete. The last thing I can
think to tell you, is that I found no dimension for the holes in the
firewall, so I cut mine 12mm wide and approx 30 mm in length because the rod
does move up and down some in its travel and that will allow a small amount
of lateral movement of the rods also. I have a foam type sound and heat
barrier on the inside of the firewall that just has a slot in it to provide
a bit of a seal for all things passing thru the firewall.
Hope this helps...I understand the frustration when there is a lack of
detail in the prints.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: The Meiste's <meiste(at)essex1.com>
Date: Saturday, February 17, 2001 4:23 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Throttle Rods
>
>Need help from the "been there, done that" group.
>I'm trying to install the left & right throttle rods on my 601. For you
>guy's that have done this, what's the secret to installing these onto the
>throttle bellcrank.
>It's easy to assemble either the left or right separately, but installing
>both rods to the bellcrank is imposable as I see it.
>The slots in the firewall, and the vertical end rods do not allow enough
>left & right movement of the bellcrank to engage one rod & then the other.
>Sorry this may be confusing to many, but the guys that have done this
should
>know what I'm talking about.
>Also for those of you who have not bent the throttle rod ends (that fit
into
>the vert rods on the bellcrank) be careful, they will crack if bent to
>sharply.
>
>Kelly Meiste
>601 HD Tri-Gear
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Cindy" <cingar(at)mtco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle Rods |
Kelly, I thought of one more related item that everyone should probably
check. After the throttle bellcrank was installed and because again there
was no dimension on the prints, it looked like the top stop plate on the
gear tube might hit the throttle bellcrank as it passed by, so I took a
little off the stop plate.
This happened because there was no dimension for the throttle bearing hole,
so I moved it forward from center, thinking that would allow more travel in
the vertical end rods of the throttle bellcrank. Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: The Meiste's <meiste(at)essex1.com>
Date: Saturday, February 17, 2001 4:23 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Throttle Rods
>
>Need help from the "been there, done that" group.
>I'm trying to install the left & right throttle rods on my 601. For you
>guy's that have done this, what's the secret to installing these onto the
>throttle bellcrank.
>It's easy to assemble either the left or right separately, but installing
>both rods to the bellcrank is imposable as I see it.
>The slots in the firewall, and the vertical end rods do not allow enough
>left & right movement of the bellcrank to engage one rod & then the other.
>Sorry this may be confusing to many, but the guys that have done this
should
>know what I'm talking about.
>Also for those of you who have not bent the throttle rod ends (that fit
into
>the vert rods on the bellcrank) be careful, they will crack if bent to
>sharply.
>
>Kelly Meiste
>601 HD Tri-Gear
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 Stabilizer Skin Rivets |
Oups! I made a mistake with part nos.
The US Countersunk rivets are the 1682 not 1691 (which
are the lo profile dome rivets).
The UK version of the US 1682 is 1604. I use the UK
ones.
Sorry!
Michel
--- Michel Therrien wrote:
>
>
> The grip range for the A4 rivet (Avex 1691-412,
> equiv
> to Zenair's 1604-412) is .093" to .250". Frankly,
> we
> all attached less than .093" of material with our
> rivets and at .250", the A4 rivet does not work. I
> tried to attach two pieces of 1/8" with it and the
> rivet is too short (this may be because we re-shape
> the rivet head?).
>
> Regarding the stab application, there is 0.016 +
> 0.016
> + 0.040 + 0.040 + 0.025 = 0.137" of material. This
> is
> well within specifications.
>
> In doubt, you can always try it.
>
> For the A5 rivet, the specified grip range is 0.125"
> to 0.312" (for 1691-514 equiv to Zenair's 1604-514)
>
> Michel
> PS: When I say "equiv to Zenair's", I mean the the
> dimensions are supposed to be the same. C. Heintz
> mandates that we use the UK rivets (part no 1604).
>
> Source: Advell Cherry Textron Breakstem Fastening
> catalog, page 14 (Avex Fastening Systems)
>
>
> --- David Tellet wrote:
> >
> >
> > I know this has been discussed a little before (in
> > the archives), but I
> > still not sure about it. The plans call for A4
> > pitch 40 for the stabilizer
> > skin to the spars, but this means that on the top
> > skin to the aft spar an A4
> > will go through the skin, the elevator hinge, the
> > spar, and the spar
> > doubler. This seems to be too much material for
> the
> > A4. It also means that
> > the doublers will be attached to the spar web with
> > A5's and the spar flange
> > with A4's - doesn't seem right to me.
> >
> > I have a fax question in to Zenith, but I was
> hoping
> > for a quicker answer.
> > Can anybody clarify this for me? Is there a
> maximum
> > thickness of joining
> > materials for the A4 and A5?
> >
> > Thanks a lot.
>
>
> =====
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
> http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601
>
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail -
> only $35
> a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://www.pcperfect.com/mthobby/ch601
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brook" <walruss(at)optushome.com.au> |
I have a question for the 701 builders. I'm at the point of installing the
main gear on my stols. You have to cut out a couple of notches for the bolts
in the gear brackets. How did you go about this. There aren't any dimensions
on the distance between the notches. I had a brief look at it and my
brackets are about 1090 apart. The thing that concerns me is that each of
the notches would have to be right at the end of the flat top surfaces just
before it starts to curve down. This isn't the best place to have a notch
froma stress point of view. But I think that is how it will have to be.
one other question. The baggage floor joins with the seat back and rests on
the trapezoidal pieces rivetted to the side skins. What are the rivet
details of the baggage floor on to the trapezoidal pieces?
regards,
Mike 2 planes. 2 701's 536hrs build time, back up to speed, putting on the
gear and the seatbacks. hmmmm..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd(at)tstar.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: 701 rivets etc. |
Michael,
Here's some info I sent to Randy
Subject: Re: 701 rivets etc.
> Randy,
> The 701 manual gets too brief when you get to the fuslage, I had to dig
> around to get the rivet size and pitch, which I list below, hope it helps.
> Use A5 p 40 to attach the uprights, 7.F.5.4, to both the side skins and
the
> longerons.
> Use A4 p 40 to attach bottom channel 7.F.6.1 to floor skin and A5 to
attach
> bottom channel 7.F.6.1 to longerons.
> Use A4 p 40 to attach baggage floor, 7.F.5.7, to tappered channels,
7.F.5.6.
> Use A5 p 40 to attach tappered channels, 7.F.5.6, to side skins, I got
this
> from ZAC via e-mail but differs from the manual update.
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Randy L. Thwing
> To: Chuck Deiterich
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:33 PM
> Subject: 701 rivets etc.
>
>
> Chuck:
> Thanks for the info, Your response was the only one I received with
> specifics that truly answered the question, everyone else responded
> "generally" and though it's good to hear from everyone, that type of info
is
> not of much use. I appreciate you're taking the time to be specific. One
> small point: Is A5 used to attach Uprights 7.F.5.4 to the longerons, or
are
> A5's used "forward" of this part?
> I have downloaded the 13 pages of plans and manual corrections, they
do
> contain errors and typos, you have to be very careful. I went through
them
> and they didn't answer my current inquiries. Thanks again.
> Regards,
> Randy L. Thwing
>
>
> Randy,
>
> From: Randy L. Thwing <n4546v(at)mindspring.com>
> > Listers:
> > I've finally restarted on my 701 project, could anyone advise the
> > rivet size and spacing to attach part no. 7.F.6.1 to the rear fuselage
> > lower skin? I can't seem to find it in the plans.
> use A4 pitch 40
> I also need
> > clarification regarding the rivet size used to attach the longerons to
> > the rear fuselage skins. My location coordinates refer to a location on
> > the plans measured from the printed borders, the first number is across
> > from the left border and the second number is down from the top border
> > in mm, like a road map. On plans sheet 7.F.6 at location (110, 215) is
> > the note: "Longerons Rivets A4 pitch 40 (except splice + rear end). At
> > location (220, 215) is the note: "rivets A5 pitch 40 (longerons top +
> > bottom) shown within arrows like you switch to A5's for the forward
> > portion at some point. Do you use A4 full length on the longerons or is
> > there some point up front where you switch to A5?
> Use A4 pitch 40 on longerons except use A5 at longeron splices, on
longerons
> forward of uprights 7.F.5.4, for horisontal tail attach brackets and lower
> rudder hinge 7.F.4.2. Bolts on upper rudder hinge.
> ZAC has a 701 construction manual update on their web site, but beware
there
> are some typos.
> Chuck D.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dick Baner <db8(at)mtco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 main gear |
You are right about a bad place to narrow the cross section but that is what you
have to do. Be sure to keep away from sharp edges for the notch so that the
stress point is not sharp at least. On the old flat gear bar this is where it
tended to bend on a hard landing. dick baner
Michael Brook wrote:
>
> I have a question for the 701 builders. I'm at the point of installing the
> main gear on my stols. You have to cut out a couple of notches for the bolts
> in the gear brackets. How did you go about this. There aren't any dimensions
> on the distance between the notches. I had a brief look at it and my
> brackets are about 1090 apart. The thing that concerns me is that each of
> the notches would have to be right at the end of the flat top surfaces just
> before it starts to curve down. This isn't the best place to have a notch
> froma stress point of view. But I think that is how it will have to be.
>
> one other question. The baggage floor joins with the seat back and rests on
> the trapezoidal pieces rivetted to the side skins. What are the rivet
> details of the baggage floor on to the trapezoidal pieces?
>
> regards,
>
> Mike 2 planes. 2 701's 536hrs build time, back up to speed, putting on the
> gear and the seatbacks. hmmmm..
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HOLCOMBE" <holcombe(at)oregonfast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 main gear |
On the notches in the landing gear be sure to round, smooth, and polish, to
reduce the chance of stress concentrations.
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Brook <walruss(at)optushome.com.au>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 1:42 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 main gear
>
> I have a question for the 701 builders. I'm at the point of installing the
> main gear on my stols. You have to cut out a couple of notches for the
bolts
> in the gear brackets. How did you go about this. There aren't any
dimensions
> on the distance between the notches. I had a brief look at it and my
> brackets are about 1090 apart. The thing that concerns me is that each of
> the notches would have to be right at the end of the flat top surfaces
just
> before it starts to curve down. This isn't the best place to have a notch
> froma stress point of view. But I think that is how it will have to be.
>
> one other question. The baggage floor joins with the seat back and rests
on
> the trapezoidal pieces rivetted to the side skins. What are the rivet
> details of the baggage floor on to the trapezoidal pieces?
>
>
> regards,
>
> Mike 2 planes. 2 701's 536hrs build time, back up to speed, putting on the
> gear and the seatbacks. hmmmm..
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph Llewellyn" <llewellyn(at)tinet.ie> |
| Subject: | Re: Reduction Drive from Ireland |
Larry
Do you have any more info on www.av8r.co.uk I'm located in Ireland and
would be very interested in following this up.
Ralph Llewellyn (701 scratch building )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Reduction Drive from Ireland |
Ralph,
Their phone number is 028 7082 37 93 Fax: 028 7082 46 25
The company name is Microflight Ireland, AV8R Engines & they appear to be
dealer/representatives for Konig/Zanzottera engines as well.
Good luck,
Larry
Scratch building a 601 HDS, 50% complete since Sept 99.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph Llewellyn <llewellyn(at)tinet.ie>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Reduction Drive from Ireland
>
> Larry
>
> Do you have any more info on www.av8r.co.uk I'm located in Ireland and
> would be very interested in following this up.
>
> Ralph Llewellyn (701 scratch building )
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt(at)mondenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: splice plates |
John,
I must say as a scratch builder that I have been treated very fairly by
Chris and ZAC.
Regards
Carl.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net>
Date: February 15, 2001 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: splice plates
>
>Barry Mayne wrote:
>
>>
>> Just a quick question to all on the list,
>> What is the situation if you are not on the internet or subscribe to the
>> newsletter, has ZAC going to notify all builders about the splice plates
or
>> are they relying on the grapevine to let everyone know. I am obviously on
>> the list and use the internet but what if I wasn't ? ZAC haven't sent me
>> anything about it and I only found out by information passed on to me by
a
>> builder who exchanges information with me on engines. I know of three
>> builders down here in Australia who are not on the internet or use the
>> newsletter and I have no contact info on them so I don't know if they are
>> aware of the problem.
>>
>> Interesting to hear how many of you guys have actually been contacted by
>> ZAC.
>>
>> Barry Mayne HDS Jabiru 3300
>>
>
>Interesting point. I'm a scratch builder and I definitely haven't receive
a
>notice. Come to think of it, I don't think that the factory could give a
dam
>about us plans buyers. Funny though' when I called to purchase supplies
such
>as rivets and small items, they don't mind talking to me then. I also love
the
>looks I get at the tent at Sun-N-Fun when I say Hello to Nick Heintz and
>introduce myself as a scratch builder. I would have thought I had tree
heads
>or something. Are there any other scratch builders that get that feeling?
>
>Just my observation......
>
>Hey Barry.....You like that Jabiru. What this dawn 0-200 is going to cost
me
>now, I could have bought the 3300 and the firewall forward kit. Oh--Well,
You
>live and you learn....
>
>
>John W. Tarabocchia
>
>601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
>Airframe 100% Complete...
>Installing Wire and Engine...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
Could someone direct me to a discussion or other source (preferably on the
web) about buying TSO vs non-TSO'd instruments, avionics, etc? Are there
some things you just don't want to skimp on, or is it usually the case that
if a company makes both a TSO and nonTSO versions, then exercising the
advantage of making a homebuilt is always the thing to do? I realize this
is separate from the question of whether or not a given product or
manufacturer is of quality.
Have most of you who have completed your aircraft gone nonTSO'd, TSO'd, or
a mix?
Thanks,
Gary Liming
801
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TSO vs non-TSO |
| From: | Glen.Worstell(at)seagate.com |
02/20/2001 07:29:11 AM
> Have most of you who have completed your aircraft gone nonTSO'd,
TSO'd, or a mix?
I have a TSO'd navcom and another that is not. They both work fine.
There have been discussions about whether TSO'd stuff is required for IFR
or not; my conclusion is that TSO is not required in homebuilts, except
for transponders and IFR gps. Your conclusions may vary (murky regs).
As there are crappy TSO'd radios (ARC, for example) and some pretty good
ones that are not, I'd purchase on reputation and price.
Were I to purchase a new navcom I'd get a UPS SL-30.
g. 601HD trike, Rotax 912, dual electrical system, IFR, slow but fun
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Tanner" <vk3auu(at)sympac.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: "Z" ' s around bottom fuse access 701 |
My bottom door has a piano hinge at the front edge and 2 Dzus fasteners on
each other edge. If I were to do it again, I would put the hinge on one side
as it touches the ground as it is and I need to put one wheel up on a 4
gallon drum. My battery is also accessible through this door.
David Tanner CH701 912UL 165 hours flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | 801 instrument panel template |
Not seeing one on the website, I asked ZAC if a measured drawing existed
for the 801 instrument panel. Nick said not yet, but was kind enough to
make a tracing of an actual panel and send it to me.
I made a measured drawing of it with dimensions and put it up at
www.liming.org/ch801
You can follow the links to "research" and "801 instrument panel." It is a
help in laying out where you want the instruments and avionics to go.
Gary Liming
801
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Danielson" <steved(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Damage tolerances for the 701 |
Somewhere (maybe in the plans or assembly guide for the 701) I read a
document on allowable damage tolerances after any type of accidents. It
talked about the allowable amount of waviness on trailing edges, talked
about how to patch over dents, how many rivets etc...
I looked quickly through the assembly guide and plans and I didn't spot it.
Does anyone know what I am talking about and where to find it?
Thanks,
Steve Danielson
http://home.nc.rr.com/danielson/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | those with interest in 701 |
Dear 701 Builders and interested friends:
I've established a list of my friends with interest in my 701
building project, plus I'm trying to learn how to use my digital camera.
I'm sending a picture here and there as I try to document progress.
I've added the names of builders and non-builders alike. I'm taking
pictures in the lowest resolution to avoid long download times.
Comments are always welcome, plus I just like to hear from everyone. If
you are interested in receiveing these posts, please email me off list
and I will add you to my list.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, 701 plans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Isaacs" <bob999(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I sometime feel like maybe I am only one of a few who is working on
building a 601XL. Is anyone one else also working on this kit model and
if so what kind of problems have you ran into? How far along are you?
What kind of engine are being considered?
IS THEIR ANYONE OUT THEIR?
Bob
N601XL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Townsend" <mark.townsend(at)xrxgsn.com> |
Hey Bob
Were out here, just look for the high forheads from scratching!!
Problems ? not yet but it is early for me and I'm still learning.
What Kind of Engine? I hav e decided on the CAM125 ,for MANY reasons over
the rotax and jab.
Mark
601XL scrach building
==============
January 22, 2001 - February 20, 2001
Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-cb