Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-dn
July 05, 2003 - July 19, 2003
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron flutter |
| From: | Ray Montagne <ac6qj(at)earthlink.net> |
On 7/4/03 3:18 PM, "Jeff Paden" wrote:
>
Each one of those flutter cycles counts as one cycle against the total
number of cycles allowable for the life of the aileron hinge. A 10 cycle
per second flutter would a 10,000 cycle life to 1000 seconds of operation
which is just under 16 minutes and 40 seconds of flight time...
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zygon Tubing and Grommets... |
| From: | Ray Montagne <ac6qj(at)earthlink.net> |
On 5/26/03 8:30 PM, "Don Honabach" wrote:
>
> If anyone is or has used the rubber grommets from Aircraft Spruce to aid
> in running your Tygon based tubing for your static/pitot lines, most
> likely you'll want to replace this right away. I ran mine in my wing
> with these grommets and the rubber grommets reacted with the Tygon
> tubing and now the tubing is destoryed in any area where the tubing came
> into contact with the grommet :(
This post really concerned me and I wanted to find an alternative that would
not require a major service inside the wing sometime down the road. I've
installed threaded PVC feed-through fittings (available in the electrical
department of Orchard Supply Hardware). Anyone interested in seeing photo
can view one at <http://12.234.74.66/zodiac/DSCN2702.jpg> or click on the
"Left Wing" link on my web page and scroll down to the entry for 4 July
2003.
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <n5ff(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Zygon Tubing and Grommets... |
The rubber O ring on this PVC fixture will dry out and fall off in a
year or two from the heat. I've used those in various applications, and
the O ring fell off in less than a year in Texas heat. This will leave
the fixture loose....it may not be a real issue here, but it may work
itself out then you are risking the tubing, cables, whatever you are
running into it getting cut or damaged by the metal sharp edge. You
don't need the O ring, just take it off, tighten the two halves together
and use few drops of contact cement or glue on the threads.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Montagne
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zygon Tubing and Grommets...
On 5/26/03 8:30 PM, "Don Honabach" wrote:
>
> If anyone is or has used the rubber grommets from Aircraft Spruce to
aid
> in running your Tygon based tubing for your static/pitot lines, most
> likely you'll want to replace this right away. I ran mine in my wing
> with these grommets and the rubber grommets reacted with the Tygon
> tubing and now the tubing is destoryed in any area where the tubing
came
> into contact with the grommet :(
This post really concerned me and I wanted to find an alternative that
would
not require a major service inside the wing sometime down the road.
I've
installed threaded PVC feed-through fittings (available in the
electrical
department of Orchard Supply Hardware). Anyone interested in seeing
photo
can view one at <http://12.234.74.66/zodiac/DSCN2702.jpg> or click on
the
"Left Wing" link on my web page and scroll down to the entry for 4 July
2003.
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
========================================================================
===
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
========================================================================
===
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Brenton E. Battles ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Brenton E. Battles
Subject: Zenith-List 601 POH Template (pdf)
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/brentbattles@charter.net.07.05.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Zygon Tubing and Grommets... |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Ray,
I was the guy the posted the original message and I've changed my rubber
grommets for the tygon tubing to 'pop-in plastic guides/grommets'.
Purchased a bunch of them from Aircraft Spruce (ordered like 20 of each
size so I could just use as needed as I was plumbing everything).
They've worked out great so far.
If you can't find them in the catalog, let me know and I'll track them
down and send you the page number and/or part #s.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Montagne [mailto:ac6qj(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zygon Tubing and Grommets...
On 5/26/03 8:30 PM, "Don Honabach" wrote:
>
> If anyone is or has used the rubber grommets from Aircraft Spruce to
> aid in running your Tygon based tubing for your static/pitot lines,
> most likely you'll want to replace this right away. I ran mine in my
> wing with these grommets and the rubber grommets reacted with the
> Tygon tubing and now the tubing is destoryed in any area where the
> tubing came into contact with the grommet :(
This post really concerned me and I wanted to find an alternative that
would not require a major service inside the wing sometime down the
road. I've installed threaded PVC feed-through fittings (available in
the electrical department of Orchard Supply Hardware). Anyone
interested in seeing photo can view one at
<http://12.234.74.66/zodiac/DSCN2702.jpg> or click on the "Left Wing"
link on my web page and scroll down to the entry for 4 July 2003.
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
========================================================================
===
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
========================================================================
===
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Gary Zilik ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Gary Zilik
Subject: CH Products Stick Grip
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/zilik@direcpc.com.07.05.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
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5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zygon Tubing and Grommets... |
| From: | Ray Montagne <ac6qj(at)earthlink.net> |
On 7/5/03 10:00 AM, "n5ff(at)attbi.com" wrote:
>
> The rubber O ring on this PVC fixture will dry out and fall off in a
> year or two from the heat. I've used those in various applications, and
> the O ring fell off in less than a year in Texas heat. This will leave
> the fixture loose....it may not be a real issue here, but it may work
> itself out then you are risking the tubing, cables, whatever you are
> running into it getting cut or damaged by the metal sharp edge. You
> don't need the O ring, just take it off, tighten the two halves together
> and use few drops of contact cement or glue on the threads.
>
Thanks for the tip! Will do!
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Philip Polstra ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Philip Polstra
Subject: Pictures from Stratus Teardown
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/ppolstra@mindspring.com.07.05.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
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3) Your Email Address:
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5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [ Philip Polstra ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
Philip,
My guess is that you had pieces of valve guide banging in your cylinders for
quite a while, meaning hours of flying, prior to the failure which brought you
down. Were you able to look at the valve guides, or was there any left. Eventually
I would guess that the chipping away at the guide reduced its size until
it let the valve go.
From the pics there is evidence that this was beginning to occur in your "Good"
cylinders, too. The pits in the bottom of the pistons are probably from pieces
of valve guide. Did you check the guides in this head to see if they are
intact? These pictures are just like the condition of my pistons after three
failures with guides. My guess is that you will find what is left of knurled guides.
All of my failures were on the intake.
Thanks for posting the pics. x Stratus...still soob Don Walker
----- Original Message -----
From: Email List Photo Shares
To: Email List Photo Shares
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 2:29 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: [ Philip Polstra ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Philip Polstra
Subject: Pictures from Stratus Teardown
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/ppolstra@mindspring.com.07.05.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weatherstrip adhesive |
I call everywhere I could and could'nt find PolyZap
locally. One retailer had other ZAP products, but he
said I would need to buy 6 bottles to justify an order
to his supplier.
I found one retailer that proposed me Flash glue, I
believe made by NHP. Would this do the same?
http://www.hobbysport.no/flash/flash1.htm
--- Fred or Sandy Hulen wrote:
> Hulen"
>
> > The other one is Poly-Zap. There was
> > a thread on this list several years ago about
> Poly-Zap which you may find
> > helpful.
> > Bill
>
> ++ I can offer some information on this as I have
> given clinics on "instant
> glues" and have used more of the stuff than you can
> ever imagine. One of my
> friends said he wouldn't be surprised if I built a
> house some day with the
> stuff! Reading from the label on the container, it
> says, "For specialty
> plastics" "Ideal for Lexan repairs", "Strong and
> flexible", etc. etc. Poly
> Zap (a special version of super glue for "slick"
> plastics) sure made the job
> easy for me when I secured the rubber seals to the
> canopy. After I had the
> rubber in place and satisfied with the fit, I just
> went along the rubber
> strip about every 8", lifted the rubber up far
> enough to squeeze a small
> drop of the Poly Zap down in the bottom of the slot,
> then held the rubber
> down in place for about 15 seconds or so until the
> Zap had "gone off"
> (bonding by a rapid chemical reaction, not drying),
> then went to the next
> spot 8" away. After I had these spots "tacked" I
> went in between each of
> those with more spots. No need to use the stuff in
> a continuous amount all
> the way around. After I had the rubber spotted in
> along the outside, I
> lifted the canopy and did a few on the inside (not
> vary many though). It
> doesn't take much to completely secure the rubber
> seal. Don't put enough in
> there that it pushes out and shows when you press
> the rubber down while it
> sets. Using this method, you won't be trying to put
> some sort of glue along
> the whole thing and struggling to hold the whole
> thing in place at the same
> time. I did some test applications on some of the
> scrap pieces that I had
> cut off while fitting the canopy and you'll rip the
> surface off the rubber
> before it will come loose from the canopy.
>
> There are about 8 different types of Zap instant
> glues made by Pacer
> Products (thin, thick, slow, gel, oderless, for
> nylon and delrin, etc.).
> Poly Zap is not commonly used for normal wood and
> plastic model building and
> thus not regularly stocked by most hobby shops. If
> you can't find it in
> stock, wait for them to order it for you. My advice
> is....... Use ONLY POLY
> ZAP. DO NOT use the other ZAP brand instant glue
> types as they are not
> designed for long term bonding to slick acrylic
> plastics. The will become
> brittle and will break loose with time and flexing.
>
> Here's a valuable tip. Poly Zap tends to harden in
> the container sooner
> than other "instant glues". It's life can be
> extended much longer if you
> store it in the refrigerator between uses. Let it
> come up to room
> temperature before using it again.
>
> Fred Hulen
> Jabiru 3300, 601HDS 50.5 hours
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weatherstrip adhesive |
Try:
http://www.houseofbalsa.com/e/env/0001kGMUrtvliPkzgE8h9L8/store/store-zap.html?link=/store/store-zap-tem.html&item=products:pt-22
Winston Ellis
Ketchum, Idaho
701/Suzuki
Michel Therrien wrote:
>
> I call everywhere I could and could'nt find PolyZap
> locally. One retailer had other ZAP products, but he
> said I would need to buy 6 bottles to justify an order
> to his supplier.
>
> I found one retailer that proposed me Flash glue, I
> believe made by NHP. Would this do the same?
>
> http://www.hobbysport.no/flash/flash1.htm
>
> --- Fred or Sandy Hulen wrote:
> > Hulen"
> >
> > > The other one is Poly-Zap. There was
> > > a thread on this list several years ago about
> > Poly-Zap which you may find
> > > helpful.
> > > Bill
> >
> > ++ I can offer some information on this as I have
> > given clinics on "instant
> > glues" and have used more of the stuff than you can
> > ever imagine. One of my
> > friends said he wouldn't be surprised if I built a
> > house some day with the
> > stuff! Reading from the label on the container, it
> > says, "For specialty
> > plastics" "Ideal for Lexan repairs", "Strong and
> > flexible", etc. etc. Poly
> > Zap (a special version of super glue for "slick"
> > plastics) sure made the job
> > easy for me when I secured the rubber seals to the
> > canopy. After I had the
> > rubber in place and satisfied with the fit, I just
> > went along the rubber
> > strip about every 8", lifted the rubber up far
> > enough to squeeze a small
> > drop of the Poly Zap down in the bottom of the slot,
> > then held the rubber
> > down in place for about 15 seconds or so until the
> > Zap had "gone off"
> > (bonding by a rapid chemical reaction, not drying),
> > then went to the next
> > spot 8" away. After I had these spots "tacked" I
> > went in between each of
> > those with more spots. No need to use the stuff in
> > a continuous amount all
> > the way around. After I had the rubber spotted in
> > along the outside, I
> > lifted the canopy and did a few on the inside (not
> > vary many though). It
> > doesn't take much to completely secure the rubber
> > seal. Don't put enough in
> > there that it pushes out and shows when you press
> > the rubber down while it
> > sets. Using this method, you won't be trying to put
> > some sort of glue along
> > the whole thing and struggling to hold the whole
> > thing in place at the same
> > time. I did some test applications on some of the
> > scrap pieces that I had
> > cut off while fitting the canopy and you'll rip the
> > surface off the rubber
> > before it will come loose from the canopy.
> >
> > There are about 8 different types of Zap instant
> > glues made by Pacer
> > Products (thin, thick, slow, gel, oderless, for
> > nylon and delrin, etc.).
> > Poly Zap is not commonly used for normal wood and
> > plastic model building and
> > thus not regularly stocked by most hobby shops. If
> > you can't find it in
> > stock, wait for them to order it for you. My advice
> > is....... Use ONLY POLY
> > ZAP. DO NOT use the other ZAP brand instant glue
> > types as they are not
> > designed for long term bonding to slick acrylic
> > plastics. The will become
> > brittle and will break loose with time and flexing.
> >
> > Here's a valuable tip. Poly Zap tends to harden in
> > the container sooner
> > than other "instant glues". It's life can be
> > extended much longer if you
> > store it in the refrigerator between uses. Let it
> > come up to room
> > temperature before using it again.
> >
> > Fred Hulen
> > Jabiru 3300, 601HDS 50.5 hours
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > latest messages.
> > List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> =====
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
>
> __________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg(at)ps.gen.nz> |
Jeff,
For God's sake listen to what you are being told here. If you want more
information, try this link
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/authors/bingelis/
Scroll down a wee way and read the two articles, "Control Surface
Balancing in Homebuilts" and "Control Surface Flutter Problems".
Cheers,
Phil Miller
New Zealand
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Paden
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron flutter
OK, maybe flutter was the wrong word to use here... it was the best way
that I knew to describe the problem. =0D =0D It can not be as bad as
everyone is saying or I would have been dead long ago since I flew a 10
hour flight with the ailerons "fluttering" the entire flight. By
flutter I mean that the ailerons wiggle up and down slightly but
quickly.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Out of Office AutoReply: Zenith-List Digest: 33 Msgs - 07/05/03 |
| From: | <max.johansson(at)nokia.com> |
On vacation - back in office on Tuesday 15.07.2003
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Flutters and pops. |
Well, guys, Here is a question I should have asked a while back. There are times
when my HDS will pop loudly and abruptly. Usually it happens when I unwittingly
kick the ball out of the center or am rocked around a little bit. Sometimes
it occurs when I accelerate through about 108 mph. Sometimes when I land, this
seems to "readjust", so to say, as the tailwheel hits the ground.
I have found a number of places on the skins, mostly fuselage sides, which I
imagine could pop like this with changing pressures. But there are other places,
too. I have checked the obvious. The motor mounts are all tight. No loose
rivets.
I think it is just an oilcanning, but it is pretty crisp sounding. Any thoughts.
don Walker HDS 292 hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil & Michele Miller
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 1:07 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aileron flutter
Jeff,
For God's sake listen to what you are being told here. If you want more
information, try this link
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/authors/bingelis/
Scroll down a wee way and read the two articles, "Control Surface
Balancing in Homebuilts" and "Control Surface Flutter Problems".
Cheers,
Phil Miller
New Zealand
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Paden
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron flutter
OK, maybe flutter was the wrong word to use here... it was the best way
that I knew to describe the problem. 0D 0D It can not be as bad as
everyone is saying or I would have been dead long ago since I flew a 10
hour flight with the ailerons "fluttering" the entire flight. By
flutter I mean that the ailerons wiggle up and down slightly but
quickly.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graham Byass" <gbyass(at)cygnus.uwa.edu.au> |
| Subject: | Zodiac Flaperons |
Phil
I am from 'Down Under' but I do not know the guy you are chasing.
However I have installed flaperons on my 601HDS - unfortunately it is still
a few months from flying but the system seems pretty bulletproof.
The main changes I have adopted are the use of pushrods for the ailerons and
flaperons with 'mixer' bellcranks in place of the normal bellcranks on the
outboard ends of the centre wing.
I guess flight testing will be the proof but I will have to wait a while.
Graham Byass
Western Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Phil Raker
Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac Flaperons
Hello, List:
Do any of you from "Down-Under" know a builder named Charles Furlonger?
I
haven't seen any postings from him on this list. According to a recent
issue
of Zenair News he has a design for drooping the ailerons on a 601 to achieve
flap effect which has been approved by Cris H.
I'd like to contact him to compare his system with the one I'm
building.
I've sent messages twice to the e-mail address that Nick gave me, but have
received no response. Do any of you know Charles, or are any of you
familiar
with his plane/design?
You or he may contact me off-list at: phadr1(at)yahoo.com
Phil Raker - N556P: HDS/Stratus; about 3/4 complete (trying to get back to
building after flood, job change, and interstate move)
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Livsey <jlivsey(at)bigpond.com> |
Bill,
I used parts no's 932-3308 EN3C5F and 932-3310 EN3C5M from Allied
Connectors. They are fairly small (A bit expensive) and are weather
proof and are good for the elevator trim but not nearly heavy enough for
the ruder light.
Their catalog page is at http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=366.pdf
regards john livsey
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron flutter required 5, |
| From: | Ray Montagne <ac6qj(at)earthlink.net> |
On 7/5/03 1:24 PM, "George Swinford" wrote:
>
> The real danger from flutter isn't fatigue failure. Flutter can cause gross
> structural failure in just a few cycles, literally in a fraction of a
> second. I recall seeing an in-cockpit flight test movie of a flutter test on
> a modified Piper twin in which the time between the deliberate pulse of the
> yoke and disintegration of the airplane was only a few frames. The
> professional test pilot escaped by parachute and later showed the film to
> our EAA chapter.
>
True! But one does not negate the other when catastrophic failure does not
occur. The point about cycles still holds true too. Suffice to say that
Flutter is bad for a plethora of reasons!
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Swinford" <grs-pms(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flutters and pops. |
Don:
Normal deflection of the structure under changing loads also can cause a
skin panel to "oilcan". The aft fuselage skin panels are obvious candidates.
Since you describe it as happening when the ball is displaced, torsional
deflection of the fuselage due to rudder loads might be the explanation.
George
---- Original Message -----
From: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw(at)msn.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Flutters and pops.
>
> Well, guys, Here is a question I should have asked a while back. There are
times when my HDS will pop loudly and abruptly. Usually it happens when I
unwittingly kick the ball out of the center or am rocked around a little
bit. Sometimes it occurs when I accelerate through about 108 mph. Sometimes
when I land, this seems to "readjust", so to say, as the tailwheel hits the
ground.
> I have found a number of places on the skins, mostly fuselage sides,
which I imagine could pop like this with changing pressures. But there are
other places, too. I have checked the obvious. The motor mounts are all
tight. No loose rivets.
> I think it is just an oilcanning, but it is pretty crisp sounding. Any
thoughts. don Walker HDS 292 hrs.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Phil & Michele Miller
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 1:07 AM
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aileron flutter
>
>
>
> Jeff,
>
> For God's sake listen to what you are being told here. If you want more
> information, try this link
> http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/authors/bingelis/
> Scroll down a wee way and read the two articles, "Control Surface
> Balancing in Homebuilts" and "Control Surface Flutter Problems".
>
> Cheers,
> Phil Miller
> New Zealand
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Paden
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron flutter
>
>
> OK, maybe flutter was the wrong word to use here... it was the best way
> that I knew to describe the problem. 0D 0D It can not be as bad as
> everyone is saying or I would have been dead long ago since I flew a 10
> hour flight with the ailerons "fluttering" the entire flight. By
> flutter I mean that the ailerons wiggle up and down slightly but
> quickly.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I sold my 601 HDS with Stratus. I wanted to post what I think are good and
bad points
with this aircraft. Well, mine at least.
Good points
1-Easy to build
2-Great factory support
3-Great kits (Received a few wrongs parts, factory immediately corrected)
4-Engine starts easily and was very strong
5-Very fun to fly
6-Great stall characteristics
Bad Points
1-Plans could be better
2-Slow 110 mph
Problems
Had to reinforce upper nose gear shelf as it bent during taxi tests
Oil temps low, she never used oil. The person who bought her used 2
quarts in 10 hours. Any ideas as to why?
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave(at)rockinrimranch.com> |
601HD project for sale. Fuselage, wings, tail completed and pre-cover inspection
signed off. Canopy available but not installed. Professional construction. Rotax
912S engine mount. Does not include firewall forward. Instruments included
are Taskem electronic encoding altimeter and Microair 760 (both new). Asking
US $12,900. Located in Northern Arizona.
Dave Pepper
800-514-6953
dave(at)rockinrimranch.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Connector at B6 |
I used a MOLEX connector. I stuffed the female pins, in the bulkhead nylon
block with lithium white grease. Then plug in the male connector and wipe
off any excess. This has worked fine for 7 yrs amd 390 hrs tied down
outside.
Leo Corbalis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RJK" <rjk1964(at)BELLSOUTH.NET> |
Hello all. I am brand new to the building process and I am currently working on
the 601 XL rudder start kit. I am curious about the gap that is present at
the trailing edge of the rudder just past the ribs? I don't see anything in the
"Starter Kit" instruction guide that mentions this gab or how to close it up.
Am I missing something or is this detail further discussed in the complete
plans?
Any help is appreciated.
Rick
Zodiac 601 XL
Cumming, GA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n282rs" <n282rs(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gap in rudder |
Rick
If it's that gap I think you are talking about, it's supposed to be there.
You should be able to have a friend shine a flashlight in one end and you
will be able to see it at the other end. You will find the same type of gap
on the elevator, and ailerons.
Randy Stout
VW powered CH 601 HD
n282rs(at)sbcglobal.net
http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "RJK" <rjk1964(at)BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Zenith-List: Gap in rudder
>
> Hello all. I am brand new to the building process and I am currently
working on the 601 XL rudder start kit. I am curious about the gap that is
present at the trailing edge of the rudder just past the ribs? I don't see
anything in the "Starter Kit" instruction guide that mentions this gab or
how to close it up. Am I missing something or is this detail further
discussed in the complete plans?
> Any help is appreciated.
>
> Rick
> Zodiac 601 XL
> Cumming, GA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden(at)madbbs.com> |
| Subject: | fixed the flutter problem |
=0D
Hello list, I just wanted to thank everyone for all the great feedback you
have given me.=0D
Today we finally fixed our flutter problem. The fix was actually quite
simple. We adjusted our ailerons so that they were both 1 degree below the
top of the wing... which as it turns out makes the exactly level with the
bottom of the wing. Strange that the ailerons are not shaped exactly the
same as the wing, but they are not. This fixed my flutter and we have now
tested the aircraft to a speed of 160 mph which is just below the VNE so we
are very happy now with our CH-300.=0D
=0D
Thanks again for all your help!=0D
=0D
Jeff Paden=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=2E
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fixed the flutter problem |
| From: | Ray Montagne <ac6qj(at)earthlink.net> |
On 7/6/03 5:01 PM, "Jeff Paden" wrote:
>
> =0D
> Hello list, I just wanted to thank everyone for all the great feedback you
> have given me.=0D
> Today we finally fixed our flutter problem. The fix was actually quite
> simple. We adjusted our ailerons so that they were both 1 degree below the
> top of the wing... which as it turns out makes the exactly level with the
> bottom of the wing. Strange that the ailerons are not shaped exactly the
> same as the wing, but they are not. This fixed my flutter and we have now
> tested the aircraft to a speed of 160 mph which is just below the VNE so we
> are very happy now with our CH-300.=0D
> =0D
> Thanks again for all your help!=0D
> =0D
> Jeff Paden=0D
> =0D
That's great news Jeff! Congratulations!
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Jones" <fjones(at)sympatico.ca> |
The gaps ensure drainage.
______________________
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ
601XL
______________________
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RJK
Subject: Zenith-List: Gap in rudder
Hello all. I am brand new to the building process and I am currently
working on the 601 XL rudder start kit. I am curious about the gap that
is present at the trailing edge of the rudder just past the ribs? I
don't see anything in the "Starter Kit" instruction guide that mentions
this gab or how to close it up. Am I missing something or is this
detail further discussed in the complete plans?
Any help is appreciated.
Rick
Zodiac 601 XL
Cumming, GA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Jones" <fjones(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Rotax 912ULS Tach Trouble |
I've been having a heck of a time trying to get a Micro-1000 Digital
Tach (same as Tiny-Tach I think) to work properly on my Rotax engine.
I've configured the wire wrap to go around both spark plug wires to one
cylinder so I can do the differential check. It seems to work out ok at
low RPMs but it provides a very unstable readout at higher RPMs, to the
point that it really isn't usable. Has anyone else experimented with
these?
I'm thinking of two alternatives: 1) hooking up the input directly from
the tach pickup provided on the engine - probably need a 10K resistor or
something like that, but I'm not sure if the number of pulses will be
the same so who knows if this will work 2) buying a new analog tach like
2-1/4 UMA. Has anyone had any experience with any of this?
______________________
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ
601XL - oh so close to flying
______________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard McLachlan <richard(at)foxfield.demon.co.uk> |
We have a double gas strut that holds the canopy open on our CH601HDS.
The lower gas seal has failed, so we need a new one.
Does anybody know if it is a Zenair part or if not who make it?
--
Richard McLachlan
CH601HDS/R22 G3OQT
Landing Site info at http://www.foxfield.demon.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Paul" <glennpaul(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Lawyers - Who needs them? |
I guess I should be offended by the negative lawyer comments but I find it
humorous. I practice in the area of civil litigation (personal injury,
wrongful death insurance bad faith, etc.)
Ask a widow who has no means of support who just lost her husband why she
would deal with an attorney. The response would not be tongue and cheek.
I suppose there are lawyers out there that would sue over any issue, as for
me I represents VICTIMS on a contingency fee basis (as due most personal
injury attorneys) which means I forward the costs of litigation. No
recovery no fee or costs to client. Therefore it is necessary to be very
selective in who you decide to represent and who you decide to sue.
My apologies for being off topic. I actually am a plans builder who has
done nothing more than review the plans at this point.
Philip sometimes a letter from an attorney will get the insurance company's
attention but if you decide to sue get a good civil trial lawyer and best of
luck.
Zenith Zodiac CH-601HD(S)
Plans
Glenn J. Paul
PAUL & ELKIND, P.A.
Attorneys at Law
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | [ Philip Polstra ] : New Email List Photo Share |
Available!
Wow!
Did you get any curious misfires before this happened Philip? Like a single
cough and felt the torque reversal through the airframe?
That would be a normal characteristic of valve guide failure, some hours
prior to this happening.
What did the NTSB say about the valve guides?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Email List Photo Shares [mailto:pictures(at)matronics.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: [ Philip Polstra ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
-->
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Philip Polstra
Subject: Pictures from Stratus Teardown
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/ppolstra@mindspring.com.07.05.2003/index
.html
o Main Photo Share Index
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Email the information above and your files and photos to:
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Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronnie Koonce" <rlk(at)granderiver.net> |
| Subject: | rotax overhaul and parts manuals |
I heard these were available online for downloading. Anyone know where?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rotax overhaul and parts manuals |
| From: | Ray Montagne <ac6qj(at)earthlink.net> |
On 7/7/03 3:32 PM, "Ronnie Koonce" wrote:
>
> I heard these were available online for downloading. Anyone know where?
>
>
Try:
<http://www.kodiakbs.com>
<http://www.kodiakbs.com/sdintro.htm>
<http://www.rotax-owner.com/>
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron DeWees" <rdewees(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A4 and A5 rivets |
Hi Listers.. Just noticed that I am about to run out of A4 and A5 pull
rivets for my final stages of the ole 601. Does anyone have a couple of
hundred A4 and 100 or so A5's left over they want to sell? Is there another
source beside ZAC for small numbers of them?
Thanks.
Ron DeWees
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | More about rivets |
I was browsing the Textron site, and found this series of animations on blind
rivets.
Try the slow motion as well, there is additional information...
http://www.avdel.textron.com/animation_library/index.htm
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | [ Philip Polstra ] : New Email List Photo Share |
Available!
>Did you get any curious misfires before this happened Philip? Like a single
>cough and felt the torque reversal through the airframe?
I think this might have happened say twice a few minutes before the real
trouble.
>What did the NTSB say about the valve guides?
Nothing. They sent the valve that broke to the lab.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Lawyers - Who needs them? |
>Philip sometimes a letter from an attorney will get the insurance company's
>attention but if you decide to sue get a good civil trial lawyer and best
of
>luck.
I'm hoping it doesn't come to that. If so, my favorite uncle lives on the
other side of Atlanta. He isn't afraid of going to court, especially for
his nephew.
Most of my time lately is spent waiting for people who have no motivation to
do their jobs. I'm waiting on the insurance company to pay me, and waiting
on the finance company to finish their job so I can get my shiney new CH2000
that is sitting at the factory waiting for me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave(at)rockinrimranch.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lawyers - Who needs them? |
Welcome to the new millenium, Philip.No one gives a damn about anything or
anyone....
Times have a-changed!
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Lawyers - Who needs them?
>
> >Philip sometimes a letter from an attorney will get the insurance
company's
> >attention but if you decide to sue get a good civil trial lawyer and best
> of
> >luck.
>
> I'm hoping it doesn't come to that. If so, my favorite uncle lives on the
> other side of Atlanta. He isn't afraid of going to court, especially for
> his nephew.
>
> Most of my time lately is spent waiting for people who have no motivation
to
> do their jobs. I'm waiting on the insurance company to pay me, and
waiting
> on the finance company to finish their job so I can get my shiney new
CH2000
> that is sitting at the factory waiting for me.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RoyN9869L(at)aol.com |
List Members
Try www.rivetsplus.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A4 and A5 rivets |
If I remember, Aircraft Spruce sells the US version of
the rivets. Not the UK version specified by Zenair.
I bought mine from Avdel Textron directly (in
Toronto).
Michel
--- Bryan Martin wrote:
> If you are building from a kit, ZAC will probably
> send you some at no
> charge. I've run out a couple of times because they
> didn't ship enough for
> the partial kit I ordered at that time. (I ordered
> the tail, wings and
> fuselage separately.)
>
> Otherwise, Aircraft Spruce sells the avex rivets:
>
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/avexblindriv.php
>
> And so does Wicks:
> http://www.wicksaircraft.com/gotopage.php?page=100
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron DeWees" <rdewees(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A4 and A5 rivets |
Hi Listers,
Thanks for the info re resupply of rivets. I bit the bullet this am and
called ZAC and ordered them from there. They cost a bit, but will be at
home with their genetically similar brothers in the rest of the plane ;< }
While I was at it I touched base for some tech support and that made me
feel better too. They seemed as excited as I am at the prospect of another
ZAC plane coming to life in the near future.
Thanks for the help.
Ron DeWees
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A4 and A5 rivets |
| From: | "Pinneo, George" <george.pinneo(at)ngc.com> |
ACS!
GGP
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A4 and A5 rivets |
| From: | "Pinneo, George" <george.pinneo(at)ngc.com> |
Whatever the pedigree of the Avex rivets ACS sells, I've had no issues flying them
for something like 5 years.
GGP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis(at)sbcglobal.net> |
While I was building my 601, Iadded some A4 rivets to an order. They were domed
rivets, the same size as the A4 and seemed to be interchangeable. To be on the
safe side, I used them for the skin over the instrument panel. They were fine
until I switched to a front hinged canopy. When I tried to drill them out,
I hit the retained stem which deflected the drill bit, making a mess. I had to
drive out the stem before drilling. With the regular A4, the head just rips off
onto the drill bit and you can pull out the body without messing up the hole.
Leo Corbalis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
Please see the attached zip file for details.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <Skykingjfg(at)aol.com> |
Please see the attached zip file for details.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Thinking about moving the rad |
Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of aluminium
tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is 6061.
I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old catalogue).
Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a 1"
plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings to make
the rubber hose connections secure)?
Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at the
trailing edge of the wing?
I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop the
front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a statc
pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of the rad,
fixed to the underside of the fuse.
I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
Thanks
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Skykingjfg(at)aol.com [mailto:Skykingjfg(at)aol.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Movie
Please see the attached zip file for details.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Hey guys
Think I have almost persuaded "she who must be obeyed" to let me go to
Arlington this W/E.
Think I'll be there sometime Friday pm and leave on Saturday pm.
Silver HDS N6380H...Hope to see some of you there?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Skykingjfg(at)aol.com [mailto:Skykingjfg(at)aol.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Movie
Please see the attached zip file for details.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
----- Original Message -----
From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
> Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of aluminium
> tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is 6061.
>
> I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old catalogue).
>
> Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a 1"
> plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings to make
> the rubber hose connections secure)?
>
> Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at the
> trailing edge of the wing?
>
> I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop the
> front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a statc
> pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of the rad,
> fixed to the underside of the fuse.
>
> I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
Frank,
I just ordered 3 pieces of 1"-.049-wall 6061-T6 from Wicks that total
12-feet.
(12' is minimum order) and am comfortable with that. The radiator is 38"
rearward
of it's normal position and intend to use about 36" or more of the tube to
reach the elbows
at the firewall. Also, re-positioned the radiator front end 1" down from
its normal position between
two .040 angles, 20mm x 24mm, 65-1/2" long to reach from the rear spar to
the firewall.
I really like the appearance of the radiator back there, but I punched the
angles before hanging
them so the radiator can also be readily moved forward if something requires
I retreat from this.
We all seem to be on the same wave length (cooling issues).
I'm compiling a set of parameters that have direct impact on getting the
engine
cooler on hot days. Lot of research................
Larry McFarland - 601hds
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flydog1966(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: A4 and A5 rivets |
> "is there another source for the rivets in low quantity"
Zenith will sell in low quantity, and at .08 and .09 cents each
verses .12 cents from ACS.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Thinking about moving the rad |
| From: | "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston(at)delta.com> |
Be careful in using aluminum tubing for something as important as the cooling system.
Aluminum cracks from vibration and flexing very easily. I think that
George learned this the hard way with his oil pressure fittings a while back.
Jim Weston
McDonough, Ga.
-----Original Message-----
From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:frank.hinde(at)hp.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of aluminium
tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is 6061.
I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old catalogue).
Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a 1"
plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings to make
the rubber hose connections secure)?
Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at the
trailing edge of the wing?
I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop the
front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a statc
pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of the rad,
fixed to the underside of the fuse.
I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
Thanks
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Skykingjfg(at)aol.com [mailto:Skykingjfg(at)aol.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Movie
Please see the attached zip file for details.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jackie B. Johnson" <zjohnson(at)ucnsb.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
Larry/george/frank::
Several comments..1. I got a 1 1/4 x 6' length tube at home depot..al.
has worked for 5 years so far!!.Absolutely !! put bead of some type on each
end of tube !! on my first flight, had very tight 2 clamped hose blow off
tube..so don't think of not beading some way..( I was lucky to be able to
borrow a beading tool from my local a&P SHOP ) 2.I get the impression you
guys are just hanging the rads out in the breeze..don't think it will make
much difference where you put it if that's all you're doing..there has been
many excellent articles on rads/cowlings/placements/ect in Contact,RAC/ect
would suggest you take a look at these articles...thgere's some science to
getting flow into and thru rad..( I was supplied a good cowling/rad as part
of my engine package ..NSI ) so I just had to get the location that allowed
good relative flow into/thru rad, and exit to low pressure area to solve my
problems..I'll try next trip to A/P to get some photos to post if anyone is
interestered..drop me a note and I'll sent photos so I don't clog up net..
Jackie N5JZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
> To:
> Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
>
>
> >
> > Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of aluminium
> > tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is 6061.
> >
> > I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old
catalogue).
> >
> > Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a 1"
> > plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings to
make
> > the rubber hose connections secure)?
> >
> > Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at
the
> > trailing edge of the wing?
> >
> > I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop
the
> > front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a statc
> > pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of the rad,
> > fixed to the underside of the fuse.
> >
> > I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Frank
>
> Frank,
> I just ordered 3 pieces of 1"-.049-wall 6061-T6 from Wicks that total
> 12-feet.
> (12' is minimum order) and am comfortable with that. The radiator is 38"
> rearward
> of it's normal position and intend to use about 36" or more of the tube to
> reach the elbows
> at the firewall. Also, re-positioned the radiator front end 1" down from
> its normal position between
> two .040 angles, 20mm x 24mm, 65-1/2" long to reach from the rear spar to
> the firewall.
> I really like the appearance of the radiator back there, but I punched the
> angles before hanging
> them so the radiator can also be readily moved forward if something
requires
> I retreat from this.
> We all seem to be on the same wave length (cooling issues).
> I'm compiling a set of parameters that have direct impact on getting the
> engine
> cooler on hot days. Lot of research................
>
> Larry McFarland - 601hds
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Thinking about moving the rad |
Thanks Larry,
If I remember rightly there is only one 90 deg 1" to 1.25" transition rubber
elbow in the original ZAC kit. The other connection is a stright "inch to
inch and a quarter" transition.
Did you buy a second rubber elbow and how did you find one with the size
change?
Are you bending a 90 deg elbow in the alu tube to reach the original 1"
rubber hose? If not how are you connecting these?
I assume you have not flown this new configuration yet?
Thanks
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry McFarland [mailto:larrymc(at)qconline.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
-->
----- Original Message -----
From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
> Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of
> aluminium tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is
> 6061.
>
> I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old
> catalogue).
>
> Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a
> 1" plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings
> to make the rubber hose connections secure)?
>
> Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at
> the trailing edge of the wing?
>
> I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop
> the front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a
> statc pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of
> the rad, fixed to the underside of the fuse.
>
> I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
Frank,
I just ordered 3 pieces of 1"-.049-wall 6061-T6 from Wicks that total
12-feet. (12' is minimum order) and am comfortable with that. The radiator
is 38" rearward of it's normal position and intend to use about 36" or more
of the tube to reach the elbows at the firewall. Also, re-positioned the
radiator front end 1" down from its normal position between two .040 angles,
20mm x 24mm, 65-1/2" long to reach from the rear spar to the firewall. I
really like the appearance of the radiator back there, but I punched the
angles before hanging them so the radiator can also be readily moved forward
if something requires I retreat from this. We all seem to be on the same
wave length (cooling issues). I'm compiling a set of parameters that have
direct impact on getting the engine cooler on hot days. Lot of
research................
Larry McFarland - 601hds
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Varun" <vp(at)inforunner.com> |
| Subject: | Where to buy Solid Rivets |
What's a good source in Canada for buying solid rivets.
Thanks,
varun
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Karnes" <jpkarnes(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
For what it's worth, when I moved my rad to the rear my cooling problems
actually got worse. Maybe the additional "load" on the water pump hindered
the movement of the solution through the system. All I know is that the
movement of the rad didn't work for me.
John Karnes
Port Orchard, WA
-----
Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
Frank,
Correct, I'm having to find a few rubber elbows and the point on beading
the tube is a good item as well. I don't intend to bend any aluminum tube
tho it would be neat if one could radius around the firewall.
I posted pictures on the subaru page on my site and the journal
part 5 has been updated so far on process.
Won't fly until next spring no matter what.
Keep me posted.
Thanks,
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
> Thanks Larry,
>
> If I remember rightly there is only one 90 deg 1" to 1.25" transition
rubber
> elbow in the original ZAC kit. The other connection is a stright "inch to
> inch and a quarter" transition.
>
> Did you buy a second rubber elbow and how did you find one with the size
> change?
>
> Are you bending a 90 deg elbow in the alu tube to reach the original 1"
> rubber hose? If not how are you connecting these?
>
> I assume you have not flown this new configuration yet?
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry McFarland [mailto:larrymc(at)qconline.com]
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
>
> -->
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
> To:
> Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
>
>
> >
> > Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of
> > aluminium tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is
> > 6061.
> >
> > I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old
> > catalogue).
> >
> > Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a
> > 1" plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings
> > to make the rubber hose connections secure)?
> >
> > Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at
> > the trailing edge of the wing?
> >
> > I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop
> > the front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a
> > statc pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of
> > the rad, fixed to the underside of the fuse.
> >
> > I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Frank
>
> Frank,
> I just ordered 3 pieces of 1"-.049-wall 6061-T6 from Wicks that total
> 12-feet. (12' is minimum order) and am comfortable with that. The
radiator
> is 38" rearward of it's normal position and intend to use about 36" or
more
> of the tube to reach the elbows at the firewall. Also, re-positioned the
> radiator front end 1" down from its normal position between two .040
angles,
> 20mm x 24mm, 65-1/2" long to reach from the rear spar to the firewall. I
> really like the appearance of the radiator back there, but I punched the
> angles before hanging them so the radiator can also be readily moved
forward
> if something requires I retreat from this. We all seem to be on the same
> wave length (cooling issues). I'm compiling a set of parameters that have
> direct impact on getting the engine cooler on hot days. Lot of
> research................
>
> Larry McFarland - 601hds
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
Many people use 3003 tubing as it is soft and doesn't crack as easily as the
tempered stuff.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston(at)delta.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
> Be careful in using aluminum tubing for something as important as the
cooling system. Aluminum cracks from vibration and flexing very easily. I
think that George learned this the hard way with his oil pressure fittings a
while back.
>
> Jim Weston
> McDonough, Ga.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:frank.hinde(at)hp.com]
> To: 'zenith-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
>
>
> Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of aluminium
> tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is 6061.
>
> I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old catalogue).
>
> Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a 1"
> plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings to make
> the rubber hose connections secure)?
>
> Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at the
> trailing edge of the wing?
>
> I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop the
> front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a statc
> pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of the rad,
> fixed to the underside of the fuse.
>
> I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Skykingjfg(at)aol.com [mailto:Skykingjfg(at)aol.com]
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Movie
>
>
> Please see the attached zip file for details.
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Szewc" <szewc(at)cdsnet.net> |
Is there any way to get the top skin on a 701 wing without some oil canning? I
got it on my first wing and thought that I didn't spend enough time leveling the
ribs, but put in the due diligence on the ribs this time and still can't seem
to find a middle ground before drilling the skin.
Ribs 2,3, and 4 seem like they are 5mm low in the middle even though they are the
same height at the spar and rear channel. As soon as I push the skin down the
skin deforms.
Is this a losing battle, and should I just live with it?
Ken Szewc
701SP 912ULS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
Cy,
The only problem with 3003 is it does crush easily and in the effort to
tighten a clamp down, it does not have enough punch to stay tight as
a larger diameter pipe. 6061-T6 gives more than copper tube with
less work hardening but will hold better if it is properly supported.
I agree, that 3003 is probably much easier for flared fittings of small
diameter and for bending around tight areas, but for me, a 1" straight
36" piece, well supported, should be a 5052 or 6000 series aluminum.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
> Many people use 3003 tubing as it is soft and doesn't crack as easily as
the
> tempered stuff.
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
> Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston(at)delta.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
>
> >
> > Be careful in using aluminum tubing for something as important as the
> cooling system. Aluminum cracks from vibration and flexing very easily.
I
> think that George learned this the hard way with his oil pressure fittings
a
> while back.
> >
> > Jim Weston
> > McDonough, Ga.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:frank.hinde(at)hp.com]
> > To: 'zenith-list(at)matronics.com'
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> >
> >
>
> >
> > Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of aluminium
> > tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is 6061.
> >
> > I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old
catalogue).
> >
> > Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a 1"
> > plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings to
make
> > the rubber hose connections secure)?
> >
> > Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at
the
> > trailing edge of the wing?
> >
> > I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop
the
> > front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a statc
> > pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of the rad,
> > fixed to the underside of the fuse.
> >
> > I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Skykingjfg(at)aol.com [mailto:Skykingjfg(at)aol.com]
> > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Movie
> >
> >
> >
> > Please see the attached zip file for details.
> >
> >
> > advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> > Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 wing skin |
I've got the same problem and when I spoke with Nick at S n F, he suggested
a false top rib about the middle between the two regular full ribs, said
false rib to consist of an L piece bent to conform to the shape of the top
of a standard rib and then rivetede to the spar and the rear channel. The
offending skin would then be riveted to this. I welcome comments from
anyone who's tried this or other means. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail finished,
working on right wing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Szewc" <szewc(at)cdsnet.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 wing skin
>
> Is there any way to get the top skin on a 701 wing without some oil
canning? I got it on my first wing and thought that I didn't spend enough
time leveling the ribs, but put in the due diligence on the ribs this time
and still can't seem to find a middle ground before drilling the skin.
> Ribs 2,3, and 4 seem like they are 5mm low in the middle even though they
are the same height at the spar and rear channel. As soon as I push the skin
down the skin deforms.
>
> Is this a losing battle, and should I just live with it?
>
> Ken Szewc
> 701SP 912ULS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 wing skin |
I am not a metal expert but I think you can use some aluminum strips over
the top of the ribs to shim out the differences.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Szewc" <szewc(at)cdsnet.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 wing skin
>
> Is there any way to get the top skin on a 701 wing without some oil
canning? I got it on my first wing and thought that I didn't spend enough
time leveling the ribs, but put in the due diligence on the ribs this time
and still can't seem to find a middle ground before drilling the skin.
> Ribs 2,3, and 4 seem like they are 5mm low in the middle even though they
are the same height at the spar and rear channel. As soon as I push the skin
down the skin deforms.
>
> Is this a losing battle, and should I just live with it?
>
> Ken Szewc
> 701SP 912ULS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CBRxxDRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 701 wing skin |
In a message dated 7/8/03 10:46:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HRS4(at)prodigy.net
writes:
> I've got the same problem and when I spoke with Nick at S n F, he suggested
> a false top rib about the middle between the two regular full ribs, said
> false rib to consist of an L piece bent to conform to the shape of the top
> of a standard rib and then rivetede to the spar and the rear channel. The
> offending skin would then be riveted to this. I welcome comments from
> anyone who's tried this or other means. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail finished,
> working on right wing.
>
What metal is used on the 701 skin .016 or .025 ?
I am about to reskin a rebuild project (601HD) with .025
The HD uses .016 and the new XL uses .025.
I found the metal ( 6061 T6 .025 ) locally and it was pretty cheap.
Sal Capra
Lakeland, FL
My Home Page
http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Szewc" <szewc(at)cdsnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 wing skin |
Sal,
The 701 uses .016 aluminum for wing skins. I don't think the thickness is
really the problem, more likely the large space between the ribs and the
slight inconsistency in the ribs (or rib placement).
I used L braces in the right wing to support the skin in between the ribs
(from rib to rib at about the six rivet from the spar) with no rivets to the
skin. The L supports the skin from fully deflecting between the ribs and
keeps it from popping. After riveting everything together I am not really
sure how much I needed it though. When you rivet the nose skin down it has a
lifting effect on the rear portion of the skin due to the angle of the spar
caps compared to the rear wing.
I just wondered if there was a magical way to avoid it all together.
Thanks Ken
>
>
> > I've got the same problem and when I spoke with Nick at S n F, he
suggested
> > a false top rib about the middle between the two regular full ribs, said
> > false rib to consist of an L piece bent to conform to the shape of the
top
> > of a standard rib and then rivetede to the spar and the rear channel.
The
> > offending skin would then be riveted to this. I welcome comments from
> > anyone who's tried this or other means. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail
finished,
> > working on right wing.
> >
>
> What metal is used on the 701 skin .016 or .025 ?
> I am about to reskin a rebuild project (601HD) with .025
> The HD uses .016 and the new XL uses .025.
> I found the metal ( 6061 T6 .025 ) locally and it was pretty cheap.
>
>
> Sal Capra
> Lakeland, FL
> My Home Page
> http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 wing skin |
Hi Hap,
When we beguin building the 701, was our first time with an aluminum
plane, we were having second thoughts about the strtucture of the
plane, everything looked so thin and bended like reynolds wrap :-)
Once we built here the first piece (the rudder was brought already from
the factory shop by my brother), a 1/4th of the flapperons, we were
amased how strong and light the plane was coming though, I admire
everyday more the design capabilities of Mr. Heintz...
Well, the only thing we noticed when clecoing the wing skins was the
BIG space betwen the ribs and the oil canning of the skins... our main
concern was about what would happen when the plane was going to get
cleaned with the wetted rag by our club's plane keepers, not the
integity of the wing.
We decided to add false ribs made like my Pouchel... with blue foam and
a very light cover of thin fiberglass (suf board mat) with epoxy (to
prevent melting, just in case a little of gasoline drips [or fumes] get
inside the wing when refueling).
The result was a very light but strong rib and the skins areas solid as
they where built using .250" cromoly :-) not only 0.025" AL (in fact
they were a hair lighter than the aluminum ribs, using the diet scale
to compare weights).
The wings ended better than spected.
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico
--- "H. Robert Schoenberger" wrote:
>
>
> I've got the same problem and when I spoke with Nick at S n F, he
> suggested
> a false top rib about the middle between the two regular full ribs,
> said
> false rib to consist of an L piece bent to conform to the shape of
> the top
> of a standard rib and then rivetede to the spar and the rear channel.
> The
> offending skin would then be riveted to this. I welcome comments
> from
> anyone who's tried this or other means. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail
> finished,
> working on right wing.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Szewc" <szewc(at)cdsnet.net>
> To:
> Subject: Zenith-List: 701 wing skin
>
>
> >
> > Is there any way to get the top skin on a 701 wing without some oil
> canning? I got it on my first wing and thought that I didn't spend
> enough
> time leveling the ribs, but put in the due diligence on the ribs this
> time
> and still can't seem to find a middle ground before drilling the
> skin.
> > Ribs 2,3, and 4 seem like they are 5mm low in the middle even
> though they
> are the same height at the spar and rear channel. As soon as I push
> the skin
> down the skin deforms.
> >
> > Is this a losing battle, and should I just live with it?
> >
> > Ken Szewc
> > 701SP 912ULS
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Raker <phadr1(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Thinking about moving the rad |
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
Hello, all:
I've also mounted my radiator approximately under the rear spar. Rather
than simple tubes to get coolant to/from the radiator, I'm usingthe same
extrusions that Polaris snowmobiles have mounted underneath their running
boards. Cross section is about 1.5" X .75" (slightly trapezoidal) with very
small ribs on the top (bottom as mounted) of the extrusion and a flange about
.3" wide on each side for riviting. I had a beaded hose nipple welded onto
each end. It makes for a very clean installation and should add some extra
heat rejection (cooling) at the same time. Those 6061-T6 extrusions are
designed to survive in an extremely abusive environment with lots of vibration
and impact. I am confident that they will work well in the CH-601 application.
Phil Raker - N556P: HDS/Stratus
>
> I agree, that 3003 is probably much easier for flared fittings of small
> diameter and for bending around tight areas, but for me, a 1" straight
> 36" piece, well supported, should be a 5052 or 6000 series aluminum.
> >
> > Many people use 3003 tubing as it is soft and doesn't crack as easily as
the
> > tempered stuff.
> > >
> > > Be careful in using aluminum tubing for something as important as the
> > > cooling system. Aluminum cracks from vibration and flexing very easily.
> > > I think that George learned this the hard way with his oil pressure
> > > fittings a while back.
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave(at)rockinrimranch.com> |
| Subject: | 912S engine mount frame |
I just noticed that the engine mounting frame I purchased from ZAC is crooked When
placed on the firewall, it angles to the right. Is this normal to counteract
torque and P factor, or should the frame be straight, and in line with the
fuselage?
Thanks for any comments anyone may have.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 912S engine mount frame |
| From: | "Pinneo, George" <george.pinneo(at)ngc.com> |
Yes, the engine mount must be angled right to counter P-torque, at least on a 912.
GGP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave(at)rockinrimranch.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
Aha. Thanks George. That's what I figured!
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pinneo, George" <george.pinneo(at)ngc.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 912S engine mount frame
>
> Yes, the engine mount must be angled right to counter P-torque, at least
on a 912.
>
> GGP
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
John,
I've been researching some of this and there are some 29 factors
so far that present the overheating problems we've seen.
The one I was most surprised to find was that the 3or 4 anti-freeze
additives deteriorate
and are ineffective in a relatively short period of time. Nitrates improve
heat transfer by preventing
cavitation and bubbles for a 2-year period or so. When this additive
goes, the engine can be overheating near the heads for a time without a good
read on it til it's too late.
I guess the question would be best asked, "How long since you replaced all
of your coolant?"
If your coolant is over 2 years old, take readings on your temps and then
change the
coolant completely and take another reading under the same conditions.
I'd be very interested in what you find out.
Larry McFarland - 601hds at www.macsmachine.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
> For what it's worth, when I moved my rad to the rear my cooling problems
> actually got worse. Maybe the additional "load" on the water pump
hindered
> the movement of the solution through the system. All I know is that the
> movement of the rad didn't work for me.
>
> John Karnes
> Port Orchard, WA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
In a message dated 7/9/2003 6:26:27 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
phadr1(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> Hello, all:
> I've also mounted my radiator approximately under the rear spar.
> Rather
> than simple tubes to get coolant to/from the radiator, I'm usingthe same
> extrusions that Polaris snowmobiles have mounted underneath their running
> boards. Cross section is about 1.5" X .75" (slightly trapezoidal) with very
> small ribs on the top (bottom as mounted) of the extrusion and a flange
> about
> .3" wide on each side for riviting. I had a beaded hose nipple welded onto
> each end. It makes for a very clean installation and should add some extra
> heat rejection (cooling) at the same time. Those 6061-T6 extrusions are
> designed to survive in an extremely abusive environment with lots of
> vibration
> and impact. I am confident that they will work well in the CH-601
> application.
>
> Phil Raker - N556P: HDS/Stratus
>
>
>
Good Idea. I have several snowmobile parts in my 801. I have to agree they
are pretty robust.
Ben Haas N801BH Jackson Hole Wy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
In a message dated 7/9/2003 11:44:40 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
dave(at)rockinrimranch.com writes:
>
>
> dave(at)rockinrimranch.com>
>
> I just noticed that the engine mounting frame I purchased from ZAC is
> crooked When placed on the firewall, it angles to the right. Is this normal to
> counteract torque and P factor, or should the frame be straight, and in line
with
> the fuselage?
>
> Thanks for any comments anyone may have.
>
> Dave
>
I just built my mount for my 801 this week. It is a V-8 Ford and a 84" three
blade prop. I made mine 1.5 degrees to thr right and .5 degrees pointed down.
I had mine dummied up at 3 degrees to the right and it looked like that plane
was in a head on crash it was so crooked looking. Nick says 2-3 to the right
and 1 down but several RV guys I spoke to have made 0-0 mounts and they claim
they fly just fine. Time will tell for me.
Ben Haas N801BH.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave(at)rockinrimranch.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
Thanks Ben. It just looked weird, but I knew there had to be a reason.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: <Benford2(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912S engine mount frame
>
> In a message dated 7/9/2003 11:44:40 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
> dave(at)rockinrimranch.com writes:
>
>
> >
> >
> > dave(at)rockinrimranch.com>
> >
> > I just noticed that the engine mounting frame I purchased from ZAC is
> > crooked When placed on the firewall, it angles to the right. Is this
normal to
> > counteract torque and P factor, or should the frame be straight, and in
line with
> > the fuselage?
> >
> > Thanks for any comments anyone may have.
> >
> > Dave
> >
>
> I just built my mount for my 801 this week. It is a V-8 Ford and a 84"
three
> blade prop. I made mine 1.5 degrees to thr right and .5 degrees pointed
down.
> I had mine dummied up at 3 degrees to the right and it looked like that
plane
> was in a head on crash it was so crooked looking. Nick says 2-3 to the
right
> and 1 down but several RV guys I spoke to have made 0-0 mounts and they
claim
> they fly just fine. Time will tell for me.
>
> Ben Haas N801BH.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
--- Benford2(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/9/2003 11:44:40 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
> dave(at)rockinrimranch.com writes:
>
>
> >
> >
> > dave(at)rockinrimranch.com>
> >
> > I just noticed that the engine mounting frame I purchased from ZAC
> is
> > crooked When placed on the firewall, it angles to the right. Is
> this normal to
> > counteract torque and P factor, or should the frame be straight,
> and in line with
> > the fuselage?
> >
> > Thanks for any comments anyone may have.
> >
> > Dave
> >
>
> I just built my mount for my 801 this week. It is a V-8 Ford and a
> 84" three
> blade prop. I made mine 1.5 degrees to thr right and .5 degrees
> pointed down.
> I had mine dummied up at 3 degrees to the right and it looked like
> that plane
> was in a head on crash it was so crooked looking. Nick says 2-3 to
> the right
> and 1 down but several RV guys I spoke to have made 0-0 mounts and
> they claim
> they fly just fine. Time will tell for me.
>
> Ben Haas N801BH.
>
Ben,
I dont think we can compare the RV's design with the ZAC's.
Remenber that the ZAC planes have full moving rudder, no triming can be
achieved with the front part of the rudder, like in "normal" planes....
Maybe this is why ZAC compensates the p factor with the engine mount.
What do you think? If you leave your mount straight you will take off
like a P-51 or P-38 pilot :-) watch the pedals...
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Thinking about moving the rad |
I think John's cooling probs is more likely to be a combination of the extra
load on the water pump and maybe the air is going around the rad rather than
through it.
I bet it would be pretty easy to rig up a rudimentery pressure recovery duct
from sheet alu. If you think about it, this duct does not have to be perfect
because the air pressure loss through such a thin core is going to be pretty
low.
So I think covering the rad with a simple bent up sheet metal duct with the
appropriate 14 deg tapered opening would be pretty easy to make.
Might have to put a spoiler plate in the duct to spread the air to the
outsides to prevent it barreling through the middle.
I bet it would work though.
One day I'll try it, but I think I'll use the 1.25 tubes.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry McFarland [mailto:larrymc(at)qconline.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
-->
John,
I've been researching some of this and there are some 29 factors so far that
present the overheating problems we've seen. The one I was most surprised to
find was that the 3or 4 anti-freeze additives deteriorate and are
ineffective in a relatively short period of time. Nitrates improve heat
transfer by preventing cavitation and bubbles for a 2-year period or so.
When this additive goes, the engine can be overheating near the heads for a
time without a good read on it til it's too late.
I guess the question would be best asked, "How long since you replaced all
of your coolant?" If your coolant is over 2 years old, take readings on your
temps and then change the coolant completely and take another reading under
the same conditions. I'd be very interested in what you find out.
Larry McFarland - 601hds at www.macsmachine.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> -->
>
> For what it's worth, when I moved my rad to the rear my cooling
> problems actually got worse. Maybe the additional "load" on the water
> pump
hindered
> the movement of the solution through the system. All I know is that
> the movement of the rad didn't work for me.
>
> John Karnes
> Port Orchard, WA
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave(at)rockinrimranch.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
I'm used to flying jets where no P factor exists to run you into the grass!
:{) A P-51 sounds like a blast!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912S engine mount frame
>
>
> --- Benford2(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 7/9/2003 11:44:40 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
> > dave(at)rockinrimranch.com writes:
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > dave(at)rockinrimranch.com>
> > >
> > > I just noticed that the engine mounting frame I purchased from ZAC
> > is
> > > crooked When placed on the firewall, it angles to the right. Is
> > this normal to
> > > counteract torque and P factor, or should the frame be straight,
> > and in line with
> > > the fuselage?
> > >
> > > Thanks for any comments anyone may have.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> >
> > I just built my mount for my 801 this week. It is a V-8 Ford and a
> > 84" three
> > blade prop. I made mine 1.5 degrees to thr right and .5 degrees
> > pointed down.
> > I had mine dummied up at 3 degrees to the right and it looked like
> > that plane
> > was in a head on crash it was so crooked looking. Nick says 2-3 to
> > the right
> > and 1 down but several RV guys I spoke to have made 0-0 mounts and
> > they claim
> > they fly just fine. Time will tell for me.
> >
> > Ben Haas N801BH.
> >
> Ben,
>
> I dont think we can compare the RV's design with the ZAC's.
>
> Remenber that the ZAC planes have full moving rudder, no triming can be
> achieved with the front part of the rudder, like in "normal" planes....
> Maybe this is why ZAC compensates the p factor with the engine mount.
>
>
> What do you think? If you leave your mount straight you will take off
> like a P-51 or P-38 pilot :-) watch the pedals...
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
> 701 912S
>
> __________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm looking for performance information for a Zodiac 601 HD/HDS/XL
powered by a Corvair engine.
Thanks, Greg
gpjann(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A4 and A5 rivets |
This rivet thing has really got legs over the years. Looking in the
archives will give several suppliers of these rivets, the last ones I
bought were about $0.04 each. I know that Zenith said that they only
use the ones from the British plant and not the US made ones. Well
interestingly enough the fellow at the rivet store informed me that Avex
closed it's US plant and that now all the rivets are made in the UK. So
that means that whoever you buy them from they will be the right ones.
Tim Shankland
Michel Therrien wrote:
>
>If I remember, Aircraft Spruce sells the US version of
>the rivets. Not the UK version specified by Zenair.
>
>I bought mine from Avdel Textron directly (in
>Toronto).
>
>Michel
>
>--- Bryan Martin wrote:
>
>
>
>>If you are building from a kit, ZAC will probably
>>send you some at no
>>charge. I've run out a couple of times because they
>>didn't ship enough for
>>the partial kit I ordered at that time. (I ordered
>>the tail, wings and
>>fuselage separately.)
>>
>>Otherwise, Aircraft Spruce sells the avex rivets:
>>
>>
>>
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/avexblindriv.php
>
>
>>And so does Wicks:
>>http://www.wicksaircraft.com/gotopage.php?page=100
>>
>>
>>
>
>=====
>----------------------------
>Michel Therrien CH601-HD
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
>
>__________________________________
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
Although I'm not moving my radiator, mine are being put under the
cowling, I made the "T" 's , transitions and elbows I needed using
copper sweat fittings., just like the ones that Status has on the
engine. The only difficult part , as mentioned earlier in this thread is
the bead required on the ends. You can buy a beader for about $300-400,
but I was able to fabricate one in a few evenings but you need some
machine tools.
Tim Shankland
Larry McFarland wrote:
>
>Frank,
>Correct, I'm having to find a few rubber elbows and the point on beading
>the tube is a good item as well. I don't intend to bend any aluminum tube
>tho it would be neat if one could radius around the firewall.
>I posted pictures on the subaru page on my site and the journal
>part 5 has been updated so far on process.
>Won't fly until next spring no matter what.
>Keep me posted.
>Thanks,
>Larry
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
>To:
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Thanks Larry,
>>
>>If I remember rightly there is only one 90 deg 1" to 1.25" transition
>>
>>
>rubber
>
>
>>elbow in the original ZAC kit. The other connection is a stright "inch to
>>inch and a quarter" transition.
>>
>>Did you buy a second rubber elbow and how did you find one with the size
>>change?
>>
>>Are you bending a 90 deg elbow in the alu tube to reach the original 1"
>>rubber hose? If not how are you connecting these?
>>
>>I assume you have not flown this new configuration yet?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Frank
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Larry McFarland [mailto:larrymc(at)qconline.com]
>>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>>
>>
>>-->
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
>>To:
>>Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of
>>>aluminium tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is
>>>6061.
>>>
>>>I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old
>>>catalogue).
>>>
>>>Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a
>>>1" plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings
>>>to make the rubber hose connections secure)?
>>>
>>>Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at
>>>the trailing edge of the wing?
>>>
>>>I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop
>>>the front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a
>>>statc pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of
>>>the rad, fixed to the underside of the fuse.
>>>
>>>I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Frank
>>>
>>>
>>Frank,
>>I just ordered 3 pieces of 1"-.049-wall 6061-T6 from Wicks that total
>>12-feet. (12' is minimum order) and am comfortable with that. The
>>
>>
>radiator
>
>
>>is 38" rearward of it's normal position and intend to use about 36" or
>>
>>
>more
>
>
>>of the tube to reach the elbows at the firewall. Also, re-positioned the
>>radiator front end 1" down from its normal position between two .040
>>
>>
>angles,
>
>
>>20mm x 24mm, 65-1/2" long to reach from the rear spar to the firewall. I
>>really like the appearance of the radiator back there, but I punched the
>>angles before hanging them so the radiator can also be readily moved
>>
>>
>forward
>
>
>>if something requires I retreat from this. We all seem to be on the same
>>wave length (cooling issues). I'm compiling a set of parameters that have
>>direct impact on getting the engine cooler on hot days. Lot of
>>research................
>>
>>Larry McFarland - 601hds
>>
>>
>>advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>>Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
In a message dated 7/9/2003 5:40:24 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
ggower_99(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
>
> What do you think? If you leave your mount straight you will take off
> like a P-51 or P-38 pilot :-) watch the pedals...
>
>
Your mount is angled to the right and when you fly your 701 watch YOUR
peddles. If you don't use right rudder on the take off roll you will end up building
ANOTHER 701... I have flown alot of certified planes with all flying rudders
and they all had the mounts angled to the right too. I used the RV as an
example because one cannot alter a certified plane legally. Now maybe down there
in
Mexico the rules are different and torque works the other way, ya know how
things change when you cross the border.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
It would be neat to see how you built a beader. Do you have a picture or
two?
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim & Diane Shankland" <tshank(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
> Although I'm not moving my radiator, mine are being put under the
> cowling, I made the "T" 's , transitions and elbows I needed using
> copper sweat fittings., just like the ones that Status has on the
> engine. The only difficult part , as mentioned earlier in this thread is
> the bead required on the ends. You can buy a beader for about $300-400,
> but I was able to fabricate one in a few evenings but you need some
> machine tools.
>
> Tim Shankland
>
> Larry McFarland wrote:
>
> >
> >Frank,
> >Correct, I'm having to find a few rubber elbows and the point on beading
> >the tube is a good item as well. I don't intend to bend any aluminum tube
> >tho it would be neat if one could radius around the firewall.
> >I posted pictures on the subaru page on my site and the journal
> >part 5 has been updated so far on process.
> >Won't fly until next spring no matter what.
> >Keep me posted.
> >Thanks,
> >Larry
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
> >To:
> >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>Thanks Larry,
> >>
> >>If I remember rightly there is only one 90 deg 1" to 1.25" transition
> >>
> >>
> >rubber
> >
> >
> >>elbow in the original ZAC kit. The other connection is a stright "inch
to
> >>inch and a quarter" transition.
> >>
> >>Did you buy a second rubber elbow and how did you find one with the size
> >>change?
> >>
> >>Are you bending a 90 deg elbow in the alu tube to reach the original 1"
> >>rubber hose? If not how are you connecting these?
> >>
> >>I assume you have not flown this new configuration yet?
> >>
> >>Thanks
> >>
> >>Frank
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Larry McFarland [mailto:larrymc(at)qconline.com]
> >>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> >>
> >>
> >>-->
> >>
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
> >>To:
> >>Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of
> >>>aluminium tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is
> >>>6061.
> >>>
> >>>I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old
> >>>catalogue).
> >>>
> >>>Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a
> >>>1" plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings
> >>>to make the rubber hose connections secure)?
> >>>
> >>>Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at
> >>>the trailing edge of the wing?
> >>>
> >>>I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop
> >>>the front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a
> >>>statc pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of
> >>>the rad, fixed to the underside of the fuse.
> >>>
> >>>I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
> >>>
> >>>Thanks
> >>>
> >>>Frank
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Frank,
> >>I just ordered 3 pieces of 1"-.049-wall 6061-T6 from Wicks that total
> >>12-feet. (12' is minimum order) and am comfortable with that. The
> >>
> >>
> >radiator
> >
> >
> >>is 38" rearward of it's normal position and intend to use about 36" or
> >>
> >>
> >more
> >
> >
> >>of the tube to reach the elbows at the firewall. Also, re-positioned
the
> >>radiator front end 1" down from its normal position between two .040
> >>
> >>
> >angles,
> >
> >
> >>20mm x 24mm, 65-1/2" long to reach from the rear spar to the firewall. I
> >>really like the appearance of the radiator back there, but I punched the
> >>angles before hanging them so the radiator can also be readily moved
> >>
> >>
> >forward
> >
> >
> >>if something requires I retreat from this. We all seem to be on the same
> >>wave length (cooling issues). I'm compiling a set of parameters that
have
> >>direct impact on getting the engine cooler on hot days. Lot of
> >>research................
> >>
> >>Larry McFarland - 601hds
> >>
> >>
> >>advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> >>Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave(at)rockinrimranch.com> |
Has anyone had any experience with the Stratomaster E2 engine monitoring system
by MGL Avionics? This instrument seems to do more than the Grand Rapids Technologies
EIS and at a much lower price. This is a Quebec company. The E2 features
can be seen at this website:
http://www.para-aviation.ca/
Any comments are appreciated.
Thanks...Dave
CH-601HD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
Beading
I used copper sweat fittings and bent a slim piece of steel rod (heavy wire)around
a piece of tubing to produce the appropriate radius, then soldered it to the
fitting. It's been good for three years and three hundred hours. dw
----- Original Message -----
From: Cy Galley
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
It would be neat to see how you built a beader. Do you have a picture or
two?
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim & Diane Shankland" <tshank(at)megsinet.net>
To:
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
> Although I'm not moving my radiator, mine are being put under the
> cowling, I made the "T" 's , transitions and elbows I needed using
> copper sweat fittings., just like the ones that Status has on the
> engine. The only difficult part , as mentioned earlier in this thread is
> the bead required on the ends. You can buy a beader for about $300-400,
> but I was able to fabricate one in a few evenings but you need some
> machine tools.
>
> Tim Shankland
>
> Larry McFarland wrote:
>
> >
> >Frank,
> >Correct, I'm having to find a few rubber elbows and the point on beading
> >the tube is a good item as well. I don't intend to bend any aluminum tube
> >tho it would be neat if one could radius around the firewall.
> >I posted pictures on the subaru page on my site and the journal
> >part 5 has been updated so far on process.
> >Won't fly until next spring no matter what.
> >Keep me posted.
> >Thanks,
> >Larry
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
> >To:
> >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>Thanks Larry,
> >>
> >>If I remember rightly there is only one 90 deg 1" to 1.25" transition
> >>
> >>
> >rubber
> >
> >
> >>elbow in the original ZAC kit. The other connection is a stright "inch
to
> >>inch and a quarter" transition.
> >>
> >>Did you buy a second rubber elbow and how did you find one with the size
> >>change?
> >>
> >>Are you bending a 90 deg elbow in the alu tube to reach the original 1"
> >>rubber hose? If not how are you connecting these?
> >>
> >>I assume you have not flown this new configuration yet?
> >>
> >>Thanks
> >>
> >>Frank
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Larry McFarland [mailto:larrymc(at)qconline.com]
> >>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> >>
> >>
> >>-->
> >>
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
> >>To:
> >>Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of
> >>>aluminium tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is
> >>>6061.
> >>>
> >>>I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old
> >>>catalogue).
> >>>
> >>>Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a
> >>>1" plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings
> >>>to make the rubber hose connections secure)?
> >>>
> >>>Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at
> >>>the trailing edge of the wing?
> >>>
> >>>I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop
> >>>the front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a
> >>>statc pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of
> >>>the rad, fixed to the underside of the fuse.
> >>>
> >>>I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
> >>>
> >>>Thanks
> >>>
> >>>Frank
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Frank,
> >>I just ordered 3 pieces of 1"-.049-wall 6061-T6 from Wicks that total
> >>12-feet. (12' is minimum order) and am comfortable with that. The
> >>
> >>
> >radiator
> >
> >
> >>is 38" rearward of it's normal position and intend to use about 36" or
> >>
> >>
> >more
> >
> >
> >>of the tube to reach the elbows at the firewall. Also, re-positioned
the
> >>radiator front end 1" down from its normal position between two .040
> >>
> >>
> >angles,
> >
> >
> >>20mm x 24mm, 65-1/2" long to reach from the rear spar to the firewall. I
> >>really like the appearance of the radiator back there, but I punched the
> >>angles before hanging them so the radiator can also be readily moved
> >>
> >>
> >forward
> >
> >
> >>if something requires I retreat from this. We all seem to be on the same
> >>wave length (cooling issues). I'm compiling a set of parameters that
have
> >>direct impact on getting the engine cooler on hot days. Lot of
> >>research................
> >>
> >>Larry McFarland - 601hds
> >>
> >>
> >>advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> >>Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graham Byass" <gbyass(at)cygnus.uwa.edu.au> |
Dave
I have not seen the E2 system but I have purchased the Stratomaster Ultra
that incorporates the major flight instruments plus the basic engine
instruments such as oil temp, pressure, fuel level and flow, tacho and 4 EGT
or CHT's. There are other combinations possible here as well depending on
the type of engine used.
All I can say is that their engineering looks excellent and the visibility
in daylight is very good (backlighting is also available).
My plane is not yet ready to fly but I have seen a similar instrument in a
flying 701 and the owner is very pleased with it.
I am sure you would not be disappointed with the E2 and I am sure the price
would be quite competitive.
Graham Byass
Western Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rockin Rim
Ranch, Inc.
Subject: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
Has anyone had any experience with the Stratomaster E2 engine monitoring
system by MGL Avionics? This instrument seems to do more than the Grand
Rapids Technologies EIS and at a much lower price. This is a Quebec company.
The E2 features can be seen at this website:
http://www.para-aviation.ca/
Any comments are appreciated.
Thanks...Dave
CH-601HD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg(at)ps.gen.nz> |
Hi, Dave,
One thing you need to check very carefully is visibility/readability in
certain light conditions. I have a similar instrument (Skydat GX1) in my
701. When flying into low-ish sun, the sun on me reflects off the LCD
screen and can cause it to wash out completely (and I mean COMPLETELY)
leaving me flying totally blind. The first time it happened was as I set
up on final one day when I was still on very low hours in the plane. It
was very scary to have no airspeed reference when I hadn't yet acquired
a good feel for correct approach speed/attitude. And, yes, it is
backlit.
I've tried changing the mounting angle and putting non-reflective glass
over the screen to no avail. I have just heard that the 3M company
apparently have a polarising film which may help. Failing that I am
working with a local electronics company to see if they can adapt my
unit to one of their display panels.
I should say here that the Skydat agent says he has not heard of the
problem in other installations. Also, I think the Skydat display is
layed out better than the Stratomaster. You can check it out at
http://homepages.acenet.co.za/cheeky/skydat/
Cheers,
Phil Miller
New Zealand
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rockin Rim
Ranch, Inc.
Subject: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
-->
Has anyone had any experience with the Stratomaster E2 engine monitoring
system by MGL Avionics? This instrument seems to do more than the Grand
Rapids Technologies EIS and at a much lower price. This is a Quebec
company. The E2 features can be seen at this website:
http://www.para-aviation.ca/
Any comments are appreciated.
Thanks...Dave
CH-601HD
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> ... several RV guys I spoke to have made 0-0 mounts and they claim
> they fly just fine. Time will tell for me.
The engine offset angle is intended to counteract engine 'P' effect -- a
combination of torque, and the angular movement of the air around the
airframe as well as the difference in the center of thrust of the propellor
during low speed / high power situations (i.e. thrust is offset towards the
down-travelling side of the prop at high aircraft attitudes / power settings
such as climbing).
I've always been impressed how 'neutral' my rudder is during takeoff power
and climb applications -- evidence that the engine offset works. With a 0
offset engine mount, the aircraft is simply being controlled by other
aerodynamics - rudder offset, etc. etc...
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
Has anyone thought of burying the rad in that fat little wing - ala
Spitfires and Messerschmidts? Theres lots of room in that little 'bay'
where the wings attach.... and with the high pressure under the wing and low
pressure above the wing, seems like it wouldn't take much of an opening to
get a good airflow... maybe a NACA duct on the lower skin?.... hmmmm
So far my incowl, nose-mounted rad works fine - but I don't like having it
attached to the engine due to eventual vibration effects on the soldered
joints etc.... If I ever start to get problems with it there, I'll look
seriously at the wing-mounted rad idea....
Keep us posted on how it works out Frank.
Thanks
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
> So I think covering the rad with a simple bent up sheet metal duct with the
> appropriate 14 deg tapered opening would be pretty easy to make.
>
> Might have to put a spoiler plate in the duct to spread the air to the
> outsides to prevent it barreling through the middle.
>
> I bet it would work though.
>
> One day I'll try it, but I think I'll use the 1.25 tubes.
>
> Frank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
In a message dated 7/10/2003 4:54:15 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
grantc(at)ca.inter.net writes:
>
> The engine offset angle is intended to counteract engine 'P' effect -- a
> combination of torque, and the angular movement of the air around the
> airframe as well as the difference in the center of thrust of the propellor
> during low speed / high power situations (i.e. thrust is offset towards the
> down-travelling side of the prop at high aircraft attitudes / power settings
> such as climbing).
>
> I've always been impressed how 'neutral' my rudder is during takeoff power
> and climb applications -- evidence that the engine offset works. With a 0
> offset engine mount, the aircraft is simply being controlled by other
> aerodynamics - rudder offset, etc. etc...
>
Very good explanation of the forces involded in the engine / mount
arrangement. Does your Zenith need any right rudder on the take off roll?
Ben Haas N801BH.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave(at)rockinrimranch.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MGL Avionics |
Thanks Phil. I have a tinted canopy, and a dash that extends beyond the
panel, both of which help to keep the sun off the panel. We'll see what
happens.
Thanks...Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg(at)ps.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
>
> Hi, Dave,
>
> One thing you need to check very carefully is visibility/readability in
> certain light conditions. I have a similar instrument (Skydat GX1) in my
> 701. When flying into low-ish sun, the sun on me reflects off the LCD
> screen and can cause it to wash out completely (and I mean COMPLETELY)
> leaving me flying totally blind. The first time it happened was as I set
> up on final one day when I was still on very low hours in the plane. It
> was very scary to have no airspeed reference when I hadn't yet acquired
> a good feel for correct approach speed/attitude. And, yes, it is
> backlit.
>
> I've tried changing the mounting angle and putting non-reflective glass
> over the screen to no avail. I have just heard that the 3M company
> apparently have a polarising film which may help. Failing that I am
> working with a local electronics company to see if they can adapt my
> unit to one of their display panels.
>
> I should say here that the Skydat agent says he has not heard of the
> problem in other installations. Also, I think the Skydat display is
> layed out better than the Stratomaster. You can check it out at
> http://homepages.acenet.co.za/cheeky/skydat/
>
> Cheers,
> Phil Miller
> New Zealand
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rockin Rim
> Ranch, Inc.
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
>
>
> -->
>
> Has anyone had any experience with the Stratomaster E2 engine monitoring
> system by MGL Avionics? This instrument seems to do more than the Grand
> Rapids Technologies EIS and at a much lower price. This is a Quebec
> company. The E2 features can be seen at this website:
>
> http://www.para-aviation.ca/
>
> Any comments are appreciated.
>
> Thanks...Dave
> CH-601HD
>
>
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave(at)rockinrimranch.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MGL Avionics |
Graham,
The MGL Avionics do seem very attractive, especially at their low prices.
Thanks for your input.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Byass" <gbyass(at)cygnus.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
>
> Dave
>
> I have not seen the E2 system but I have purchased the Stratomaster Ultra
> that incorporates the major flight instruments plus the basic engine
> instruments such as oil temp, pressure, fuel level and flow, tacho and 4
EGT
> or CHT's. There are other combinations possible here as well depending on
> the type of engine used.
> All I can say is that their engineering looks excellent and the visibility
> in daylight is very good (backlighting is also available).
> My plane is not yet ready to fly but I have seen a similar instrument in a
> flying 701 and the owner is very pleased with it.
> I am sure you would not be disappointed with the E2 and I am sure the
price
> would be quite competitive.
>
> Graham Byass
> Western Australia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rockin Rim
> Ranch, Inc.
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
>
>
>
>
> Has anyone had any experience with the Stratomaster E2 engine monitoring
> system by MGL Avionics? This instrument seems to do more than the Grand
> Rapids Technologies EIS and at a much lower price. This is a Quebec
company.
> The E2 features can be seen at this website:
>
> http://www.para-aviation.ca/
>
> Any comments are appreciated.
>
> Thanks...Dave
> CH-601HD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph <rdf1del1(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MGL Avionics |
I am an MGL Avionics dealer located in Toronto, to answer some of your questions,
the LCD panel has an antiglare shield built-in and has excellent contrast in
all bright light conditions. It also has backlighting which can be turned on
to help in low light conditions. I spent quite a bit of time evaluating this
product before I committed to the line. Thus far I am quite happy with the products.
I am installing a complete system in a Zenith CH250 and a Pulsar XP.
If anyone has any more questions, please feel free to ask.
Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with the Stratomaster E2 engine monitoring system
by MGL Avionics? This instrument seems to do more than the Grand Rapids Technologies
EIS and at a much lower price. This is a Quebec company. The E2 features
can be seen at this website:
http://www.para-aviation.ca/
Any comments are appreciated.
Thanks...Dave
CH-601HD
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Thinking about moving the rad |
Sure, Its interesting how we all gravitate to the P51 idea when in fact the
spitfire used the underwing method. This is because primarily the tubes just
go straight back under the fuse which makes installation simple.
Note however the P51 exhaust (namely it's a Spitfire engine when your
bragging about the performance of WW 2 fighters!) does not go down under the
fuse as it does on the zodiac, hence the rad is not exposed to warmer air
from the engine.
I have looked at the under wing (use an evaporator thick coil) method which
would be better I think because its gets cooled by fresh air. But the
plumbing would be a challenge.
Ideas, ideas.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Corriveau [mailto:grantc(at)ca.inter.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
Has anyone thought of burying the rad in that fat little wing - ala
Spitfires and Messerschmidts? Theres lots of room in that little 'bay'
where the wings attach.... and with the high pressure under the wing and low
pressure above the wing, seems like it wouldn't take much of an opening to
get a good airflow... maybe a NACA duct on the lower skin?.... hmmmm
So far my incowl, nose-mounted rad works fine - but I don't like having it
attached to the engine due to eventual vibration effects on the soldered
joints etc.... If I ever start to get problems with it there, I'll look
seriously at the wing-mounted rad idea....
Keep us posted on how it works out Frank.
Thanks
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
> So I think covering the rad with a simple bent up sheet metal duct
> with the appropriate 14 deg tapered opening would be pretty easy to
> make.
>
> Might have to put a spoiler plate in the duct to spread the air to the
> outsides to prevent it barreling through the middle.
>
> I bet it would work though.
>
> One day I'll try it, but I think I'll use the 1.25 tubes.
>
> Frank
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <grandpanma(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS |
=0D
I am changing my Email address =0D
=0D
FROM: grandpanma(at)earthlink.net =0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
Donald Vough Jr.=0D
=0D
=0D
For Sale=0D
=0D
601HDS partial Kit=0D
=0D
1). Complete Tail Kit: (Finished) Paid $300.00=0D
=0D
***********Will sell for $100.00 *************=0D
=0D
1a). The complete Horizontal Stabilizer W/flush electric trim tab.=0D
(Finished) Paid: $1495.00=0D
=0D
****** Will sell for $775.00 ************=0D
=0D
2). Wing & Aileron Kit: ( Finished skeleton of one wing) Paid $4580.00=0D
=0D
******** Will sell for $2900.00 *************=0D
=0D
=0D
Will Sell everything for: $3125.00 or Best Reasonable Offer.=0D
=0D
Plus Boxing up & Shipping, if needed.=0D
=0D
I live in Puckett, MS. That's about 25 miles south-east of Jackson, MS.=0D
=0D
E-mail address: mister_m(at)bellsouth.net =0D
=0D
Phone No.: 601-591-1589=0D
=0D
P.O. Box 194=0D
=0D
Puckett, MS. 39151=0D
=0D
=0D
Thanks, Don Vough
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
Sure not, gravity and phisics laws are the same worldwide. That is why
all pilots try to undertand and help other pilots, thanks to the news
and the internet we all know that there is no perfect laws and
everywhere you can find honest and corrupt, liars and truth politics.
Please build your plane safe, the way you chose to build it.
Only comment, no more, I like this list because if focused only in our
planes.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Benford2(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/9/2003 5:40:24 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
> ggower_99(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
>
> >
> >
> > What do you think? If you leave your mount straight you will take
> off
> > like a P-51 or P-38 pilot :-) watch the pedals...
> >
> >
>
> Your mount is angled to the right and when you fly your 701 watch
> YOUR
> peddles. If you don't use right rudder on the take off roll you will
> end up building
> ANOTHER 701... I have flown alot of certified planes with all flying
> rudders
> and they all had the mounts angled to the right too. I used the RV as
> an
> example because one cannot alter a certified plane legally. Now maybe
> down there in
> Mexico the rules are different and torque works the other way, ya
> know how
> things change when you cross the border.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <grandpanma(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | New EMAIL ADDRESS |
SORRY about that last email. Forgot to change to PLAIN TEST only.
Let me try again.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Old Email address: grandpanma(at)earthlink.net
New Email address: mister_m(at)bellsouth.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
For Sale
601HDS partial Kit
1). Complete Tail Kit: (Finished) Paid $300.00
***********Will sell for $100.00 *************
1a). The complete Horizontal Stabilizer W/flush electric trim tab.
(Finished) Paid: $1495.00
****** Will sell for $775.00 ************
2). Wing & Aileron Kit: ( Finished skeleton of one wing) Paid $4580.00
******** Will sell for $2900.00 *************
Will Sell everything for: $3125.00 or Best Reasonable Offer.
Plus Boxing up & Shipping, if needed.
I live in Puckett, MS. That's about 25 miles south-east of Jackson, MS.
E-mail address: mister_m(at)bellsouth.net
Phone No.: 601-591-1589
P.O. Box 194
Puckett, MS. 39151
Thanks, Don Vough
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek(at)golden.net> |
Well , Now that i have calmed down.
It is with Great Pleasure i would like to anounce on wednesday 8AM july9/03
C-FDSF 601 XL made her first flyte
The freshly rebuilt 0235 Lyc. preformed flawlessly with all temps and press. in
the green.
Controls all preformed the same, wonderfull..
May have to add a touck of weight in the tail/battery area.
Full aft trim required to fly straight and level,hands off.
Left wing slightly heavy but easily corrected with the electric trim tab.
For all intents and purposes flys and handles identical to the chec. built XL i
just finished doing a check out in with Flypass c/w Rotax 912.
The XL with 912 being slightly more agile maybe with 150 lbs. less engine.
Keep up the hard work fellow's, one day they will fly.
Our tach now reads 1.7 hrs and 6 take offs and landings which we were able to walk
away from.
Praise the Lord
Dave Kubassek
RR#3 Bright Ont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wizard-24(at)juno.com |
> C-FDSF 601 XL made her first flyte
How about that -- the XL's are starting to leave the nest. Congrats!
Mike Fortunato
601XL
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Awesome...I remember the hands trembling as I wrote my "yahoo" message...:)
Congrats
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Kubassek [mailto:dkubassek(at)golden.net]
Subject: Zenith-List: YAHOOO
-->
Well , Now that i have calmed down.
It is with Great Pleasure i would like to anounce on wednesday 8AM july9/03
C-FDSF 601 XL made her first flyte The freshly rebuilt 0235 Lyc. preformed
flawlessly with all temps and press. in the green. Controls all preformed
the same, wonderfull.. May have to add a touck of weight in the tail/battery
area. Full aft trim required to fly straight and level,hands off. Left wing
slightly heavy but easily corrected with the electric trim tab. For all
intents and purposes flys and handles identical to the chec. built XL i just
finished doing a check out in with Flypass c/w Rotax 912. The XL with 912
being slightly more agile maybe with 150 lbs. less engine. Keep up the hard
work fellow's, one day they will fly. Our tach now reads 1.7 hrs and 6 take
offs and landings which we were able to walk away from. Praise the Lord Dave
Kubassek RR#3 Bright Ont
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Jones" <fjones(at)sympatico.ca> |
Congratulations Dave,
I hope to be right behind you in the next month or so with my XL + 912S
combo. I plan on getting some time in on Art's bird in KW too. How much
time did you spend with his before you did your first flight?
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Kubassek
Subject: Zenith-List: YAHOOO
Well , Now that i have calmed down.
It is with Great Pleasure i would like to anounce on wednesday 8AM
july9/03
C-FDSF 601 XL made her first flyte
The freshly rebuilt 0235 Lyc. preformed flawlessly with all temps and
press. in the green.
Controls all preformed the same, wonderfull..
May have to add a touck of weight in the tail/battery area.
Full aft trim required to fly straight and level,hands off.
Left wing slightly heavy but easily corrected with the electric trim
tab.
For all intents and purposes flys and handles identical to the chec.
built XL i just finished doing a check out in with Flypass c/w Rotax
912.
The XL with 912 being slightly more agile maybe with 150 lbs. less
engine.
Keep up the hard work fellow's, one day they will fly.
Our tach now reads 1.7 hrs and 6 take offs and landings which we were
able to walk away from.
Praise the Lord
Dave Kubassek
RR#3 Bright Ont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg(at)ps.gen.nz> |
I guess I didn't make the point properly. Sun on the screen is good as
it increases contrast. The problem is with sunlight reflecting off the
pilot and cabin, onto the screen and then reflecting back to your eyes.
You see a great reflection of yourself but the display data can
completely disappear.
Cheers,
Phil M
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rockin Rim
Ranch, Inc.
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
-->
Thanks Phil. I have a tinted canopy, and a dash that extends beyond the
panel, both of which help to keep the sun off the panel. We'll see what
happens.
Thanks...Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg(at)ps.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
>
> Hi, Dave,
>
> One thing you need to check very carefully is visibility/readability
> in certain light conditions. I have a similar instrument (Skydat GX1)
> in my 701. When flying into low-ish sun, the sun on me reflects off
> the LCD screen and can cause it to wash out completely (and I mean
> COMPLETELY) leaving me flying totally blind. The first time it
> happened was as I set up on final one day when I was still on very low
> hours in the plane. It was very scary to have no airspeed reference
> when I hadn't yet acquired a good feel for correct approach
> speed/attitude. And, yes, it is backlit.
>
> I've tried changing the mounting angle and putting non-reflective
> glass over the screen to no avail. I have just heard that the 3M
> company apparently have a polarising film which may help. Failing that
> I am working with a local electronics company to see if they can adapt
> my unit to one of their display panels.
>
> I should say here that the Skydat agent says he has not heard of the
> problem in other installations. Also, I think the Skydat display is
> layed out better than the Stratomaster. You can check it out at
> http://homepages.acenet.co.za/cheeky/skydat/
>
> Cheers,
> Phil Miller
> New Zealand
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rockin
> Rim Ranch, Inc.
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
>
>
> -->
>
> Has anyone had any experience with the Stratomaster E2 engine
> monitoring system by MGL Avionics? This instrument seems to do more
> than the Grand Rapids Technologies EIS and at a much lower price. This
> is a Quebec company. The E2 features can be seen at this website:
>
> http://www.para-aviation.ca/
>
> Any comments are appreciated.
>
> Thanks...Dave
> CH-601HD
>
>
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Turner" <normsflighttraining(at)bigpond.com> |
Congratulations Dave, From down under on your first flight may you have many more.
Norm Turner 601 Hds 912 / 230 hrs.PS We are all looking forward to some pics
of your pride and joy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> Very good explanation of the forces involded in the engine / mount
> arrangement. Does your Zenith need any right rudder on the take off roll?
>
> Ben Haas N801BH.
Actually because my prop turns counterclockwise (viewed from the cockpit), I
expected to need a touch of left rudder during takeoff and climb -- but in
fact very little is needed. IF anything, a touch of right rudder is needed
in descent to offset the reverse effect! ;-)
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <rbauer(at)INTERGATE.COM> |
I have a Co-Pilot digital LCD compass for my car. It's built for use in
automobiles. When it gets hot in the car, wether using the windshield sun cover
or not, the LCD has a few light shades of rainbow colors & I am able to see all
the segments on the display when I turn it on, making it useless. I'm guessing
it has a low quality LCD & I'm sure other components in it but I hope the
aviation type are better. It does get pretty hot in those cabins in the summer.
Rich
801
Quoting Phil & Michele Miller :
>
>
> I guess I didn't make the point properly. Sun on the screen is good as
> it increases contrast. The problem is with sunlight reflecting off the
> pilot and cabin, onto the screen and then reflecting back to your eyes.
> You see a great reflection of yourself but the display data can
> completely disappear.
>
> Cheers,
> Phil M
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rockin Rim
> Ranch, Inc.
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
>
>
> -->
>
> Thanks Phil. I have a tinted canopy, and a dash that extends beyond the
> panel, both of which help to keep the sun off the panel. We'll see what
> happens.
>
> Thanks...Dave
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg(at)ps.gen.nz>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi, Dave,
> >
> > One thing you need to check very carefully is visibility/readability
> > in certain light conditions. I have a similar instrument (Skydat GX1)
> > in my 701. When flying into low-ish sun, the sun on me reflects off
> > the LCD screen and can cause it to wash out completely (and I mean
> > COMPLETELY) leaving me flying totally blind. The first time it
> > happened was as I set up on final one day when I was still on very low
>
> > hours in the plane. It was very scary to have no airspeed reference
> > when I hadn't yet acquired a good feel for correct approach
> > speed/attitude. And, yes, it is backlit.
> >
> > I've tried changing the mounting angle and putting non-reflective
> > glass over the screen to no avail. I have just heard that the 3M
> > company apparently have a polarising film which may help. Failing that
>
> > I am working with a local electronics company to see if they can adapt
>
> > my unit to one of their display panels.
> >
> > I should say here that the Skydat agent says he has not heard of the
> > problem in other installations. Also, I think the Skydat display is
> > layed out better than the Stratomaster. You can check it out at
> > http://homepages.acenet.co.za/cheeky/skydat/
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Phil Miller
> > New Zealand
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rockin
> > Rim Ranch, Inc.
> > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
> >
> >
> > -->
> >
> > Has anyone had any experience with the Stratomaster E2 engine
> > monitoring system by MGL Avionics? This instrument seems to do more
> > than the Grand Rapids Technologies EIS and at a much lower price. This
>
> > is a Quebec company. The E2 features can be seen at this website:
> >
> > http://www.para-aviation.ca/
> >
> > Any comments are appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks...Dave
> > CH-601HD
> >
> >
> > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> >
> >
>
>
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Bonsell <tbonsell(at)luxuria.com> |
Why don't we just run cooling pipes in a straight line? Maybe up and down
the strut or something?
Conventional rads need to fit in a compact space in any other vehicular
application, but we have lots of space to string them around...
701SP 1.5 wings done
******************************************************
Tony Bonsell (tbonsell(at)luxuria.com) CI-FKF
Luxuria + Apparatus Design Communications
535 Cragg Road, RR #3
Uxbridge, Ontario L9P 1R3
Voice: 905.852.3848 Fax: 905.852.0652
http://www.luxuria.com
******************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave(at)rockinrimranch.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MGL Avionics |
I see what you're saying. I guess any screen with an LCD will have these
same problems in reflective sunlight. Maybe the best solution is to stick
with those ol mechanical gages.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg(at)ps.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
>
> I guess I didn't make the point properly. Sun on the screen is good as
> it increases contrast. The problem is with sunlight reflecting off the
> pilot and cabin, onto the screen and then reflecting back to your eyes.
> You see a great reflection of yourself but the display data can
> completely disappear.
>
> Cheers,
> Phil M
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rockin Rim
> Ranch, Inc.
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
>
>
> -->
>
> Thanks Phil. I have a tinted canopy, and a dash that extends beyond the
> panel, both of which help to keep the sun off the panel. We'll see what
> happens.
>
> Thanks...Dave
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg(at)ps.gen.nz>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi, Dave,
> >
> > One thing you need to check very carefully is visibility/readability
> > in certain light conditions. I have a similar instrument (Skydat GX1)
> > in my 701. When flying into low-ish sun, the sun on me reflects off
> > the LCD screen and can cause it to wash out completely (and I mean
> > COMPLETELY) leaving me flying totally blind. The first time it
> > happened was as I set up on final one day when I was still on very low
>
> > hours in the plane. It was very scary to have no airspeed reference
> > when I hadn't yet acquired a good feel for correct approach
> > speed/attitude. And, yes, it is backlit.
> >
> > I've tried changing the mounting angle and putting non-reflective
> > glass over the screen to no avail. I have just heard that the 3M
> > company apparently have a polarising film which may help. Failing that
>
> > I am working with a local electronics company to see if they can adapt
>
> > my unit to one of their display panels.
> >
> > I should say here that the Skydat agent says he has not heard of the
> > problem in other installations. Also, I think the Skydat display is
> > layed out better than the Stratomaster. You can check it out at
> > http://homepages.acenet.co.za/cheeky/skydat/
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Phil Miller
> > New Zealand
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rockin
> > Rim Ranch, Inc.
> > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
> >
> >
> > -->
> >
> > Has anyone had any experience with the Stratomaster E2 engine
> > monitoring system by MGL Avionics? This instrument seems to do more
> > than the Grand Rapids Technologies EIS and at a much lower price. This
>
> > is a Quebec company. The E2 features can be seen at this website:
> >
> > http://www.para-aviation.ca/
> >
> > Any comments are appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks...Dave
> > CH-601HD
> >
> >
> > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> >
> >
>
>
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> It is with Great Pleasure i would like to anounce on wednesday 8AM july9/03
> C-FDSF 601 XL made her first flyte
Congratulations, DAVE!!!
Well done. There's one comment you made that caught my attention:
>May have to add a touck of weight in the tail/battery area.
>Full aft trim required to fly straight and level,hands off.
Did you have full elevator authority through the full speed range? Are the
weight and balance computations in the proper limits? Was the aircraft was
in the proper envelope for flight (i.e. properly loaded)? Could the problem
be with the trim system itself rather than the C of G of the aircraft?
I guess all I'm asking is 'do the CofG numbers confirm that your center of
gravity is too far forward?' before you add more weight.
Again - Congratulations! Enjoy you new bird!
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crazy Rad Idea? |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> Why don't we just run cooling pipes in a straight line? Maybe up and down
> the strut or something?
Apparently someone in Quebec installed a radiator in the fuselage behind the
seat, and addded automotive fans to the sideskin/inlet to ensure airflow on
the ground. Heavy and overly-complicated....for sure, but innovative at
least.
What you propose is intruiging.... how about an entire upper or lower wing
surface designed to dissipate heat?....
Or a large underbelly section? We have so much more space to work with
compared to a car .... I wonder how much heat a single (long) aluminum pipe
would radiate? What if it was equipped with fins of some sort?
Hmmmmm.... it is true as you suggest. We have locked ourselves in with the
concept of automotive radiators. There may be a lighter, easier design that
would be tailor-made to an aircraft...
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
That's a good point. One of my friend has a similar
problem, but his Balance calculation says he's within
the envelope.
He decided to re-pitch the stabilizer to resolve the
problem. He will try this in the coming week.
Michel
PS: Congratulations Dave! I hope to get my plane in
the air this year as well...
--- Grant Corriveau wrote:
> >May have to add a touck of weight in the
> tail/battery area.
> >Full aft trim required to fly straight and
> level,hands off.
>
> Did you have full elevator authority through the
> full speed range? Are the
> weight and balance computations in the proper
> limits? Was the aircraft was
> in the proper envelope for flight (i.e. properly
> loaded)? Could the problem
> be with the trim system itself rather than the C of
> G of the aircraft?
>
> I guess all I'm asking is 'do the CofG numbers
> confirm that your center of
> gravity is too far forward?' before you add more
> weight.
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
One of the ideas I've been kicking around is why are we mounting the
radiator the long way instead of using one that can be mount on the
short side?
So instead of doing this
ENGINE
|--------|
|--------|
|--------|
|--------|
|--------|
|--------|
|--------|
|--------|
|--------|
Do it like this:
ENGINE
|-------------------|
|-------------------|
|-------------------|
|-------------------|
|-------------------|
My guess is that the front part of the current design doesn't get much
air through it and that the air is forced through the back of the
radiator's fins.
If this is the case you could then get more cooling coverage by reducing
the depth and increasing the part that air if forced though. Ultimately,
the most efficient design would be a long tube with fins that run the
course of the center wing section like this:
|-------------------------------------------------------|
Just thinking out loud.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Corriveau [mailto:grantc(at)ca.inter.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Crazy Rad Idea?
> Why don't we just run cooling pipes in a straight line? Maybe up and
> down the strut or something?
Apparently someone in Quebec installed a radiator in the fuselage behind
the seat, and addded automotive fans to the sideskin/inlet to ensure
airflow on the ground. Heavy and overly-complicated....for sure, but
innovative at least.
What you propose is intruiging.... how about an entire upper or lower
wing surface designed to dissipate heat?....
Or a large underbelly section? We have so much more space to work with
compared to a car .... I wonder how much heat a single (long) aluminum
pipe would radiate? What if it was equipped with fins of some sort?
Hmmmmm.... it is true as you suggest. We have locked ourselves in with
the concept of automotive radiators. There may be a lighter, easier
design that would be tailor-made to an aircraft...
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dietrich Ulrich <ulrichd(at)shaw.ca> |
Keep in mind, that the cooling coil should stay within the range of an
efficient propeller wash, for cooling on the ground. Also the further
away from the engine, the more cooling fluid is needed and therefore
more weight added to the a/c. I think, placing the rad into an
operational convenient place and using ductwork with a venturi on the
discharge side of the coil would be my choice.
Dietrich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grant
Corriveau
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Crazy Rad Idea?
> Why don't we just run cooling pipes in a straight line? Maybe up and
down
> the strut or something?
Apparently someone in Quebec installed a radiator in the fuselage behind
the
seat, and addded automotive fans to the sideskin/inlet to ensure airflow
on
the ground. Heavy and overly-complicated....for sure, but innovative at
least.
What you propose is intruiging.... how about an entire upper or lower
wing
surface designed to dissipate heat?....
Or a large underbelly section? We have so much more space to work with
compared to a car .... I wonder how much heat a single (long) aluminum
pipe
would radiate? What if it was equipped with fins of some sort?
Hmmmmm.... it is true as you suggest. We have locked ourselves in with
the
concept of automotive radiators. There may be a lighter, easier design
that
would be tailor-made to an aircraft...
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: to all eCharts customers |
| From: | Ray Montagne <ac6qj(at)earthlink.net> |
On 7/10/03 11:22 AM, "Aircraft Technical Book Company"
wrote:
>
>
Gotta love it when the list gets spammed on top of the 300 or so a month I
get directly...
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com> |
I got a call yesterday from my insurance underwriter (AIG). They have
agreed in theory to pay me the full agreed value of my CH601HDS minus my
$100 deductable. I haven't seen any money yet. They have to send me some
paperwork and get that and the logs and then the theory goes that they will
pay the claim. They didn't try to get out of paying or pay less than full
value, or anything like that. On Wednesday it will have been a month since
the accident, so it is almost guaranteed that it will have taken them over a
month to pay the claim.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Swinford" <grs-pms(at)comcast.net> |
Grant:
I believe that the Supermarine Schnieder Cup racers (early 1930s) used skin radiators.
A few other specialized airplanes have also. Probably not a very practical
set-up for everyday low maintenance airplanes.
The F-4-U Corsair had air inlets for the oil coolers right in the leading edge
of the wing roots. I don't know where that air was exhausted.
I looked at Frank Hinde's radiator installation today at the Arlington fly-in.
The flow of air into the radiator is obstructed by the two radiator hoses and
the nose strut, as well as by being quite close to the muffler. I find it remarkable
that it cools as well as it does. Moving it aft looks like a good idea
to me.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg(at)ps.gen.nz> |
My electronics friend showed me a display panel which he thinks could be
adapted. It has yellow graphics on a black background and he assures me
it can be seen in any light conditions. He says it is the same as used
in F16 fighters. If all else fails I will go with that as it will be
cheaper than buying a full set of conventional instruments and gauges. I
have no doubt that electronic instrumentation is the way of the future
but there will be hiccups along the way. At least we have the freedom to
experiment which the GA guys don't have
Cheers,
Phil Miller
New Zealand
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rockin Rim
Ranch, Inc.
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
-->
I see what you're saying. I guess any screen with an LCD will have these
same problems in reflective sunlight. Maybe the best solution is to
stick with those ol mechanical gages.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg(at)ps.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
>
> I guess I didn't make the point properly. Sun on the screen is good as
> it increases contrast. The problem is with sunlight reflecting off the
> pilot and cabin, onto the screen and then reflecting back to your
> eyes. You see a great reflection of yourself but the display data can
> completely disappear.
>
> Cheers,
> Phil M
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rockin
> Rim Ranch, Inc.
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
>
>
> -->
>
> Thanks Phil. I have a tinted canopy, and a dash that extends beyond
> the panel, both of which help to keep the sun off the panel. We'll see
> what happens.
>
> Thanks...Dave
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg(at)ps.gen.nz>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi, Dave,
> >
> > One thing you need to check very carefully is visibility/readability
> > in certain light conditions. I have a similar instrument (Skydat
> > GX1) in my 701. When flying into low-ish sun, the sun on me reflects
> > off the LCD screen and can cause it to wash out completely (and I
> > mean
> > COMPLETELY) leaving me flying totally blind. The first time it
> > happened was as I set up on final one day when I was still on very
low
>
> > hours in the plane. It was very scary to have no airspeed reference
> > when I hadn't yet acquired a good feel for correct approach
> > speed/attitude. And, yes, it is backlit.
> >
> > I've tried changing the mounting angle and putting non-reflective
> > glass over the screen to no avail. I have just heard that the 3M
> > company apparently have a polarising film which may help. Failing
> > that
>
> > I am working with a local electronics company to see if they can
> > adapt
>
> > my unit to one of their display panels.
> >
> > I should say here that the Skydat agent says he has not heard of the
> > problem in other installations. Also, I think the Skydat display is
> > layed out better than the Stratomaster. You can check it out at
> > http://homepages.acenet.co.za/cheeky/skydat/
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Phil Miller
> > New Zealand
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rockin
> > Rim Ranch, Inc.
> > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
> >
> >
> > -->
> >
> > Has anyone had any experience with the Stratomaster E2 engine
> > monitoring system by MGL Avionics? This instrument seems to do more
> > than the Grand Rapids Technologies EIS and at a much lower price.
> > This
>
> > is a Quebec company. The E2 features can be seen at this website:
> >
> > http://www.para-aviation.ca/
> >
> > Any comments are appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks...Dave
> > CH-601HD
> >
> >
> > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> >
> >
>
>
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg(at)ps.gen.nz> |
Don't forget that you would be carrying around a lot more water if you
start running pipes all over the place. It's probably a weight penalty
that you don't need.
Cheers,
Phil Miller
New Zealand
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grant
Corriveau
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Crazy Rad Idea?
> Why don't we just run cooling pipes in a straight line? Maybe up and
> down the strut or something?
Apparently someone in Quebec installed a radiator in the fuselage behind
the seat, and addded automotive fans to the sideskin/inlet to ensure
airflow on the ground. Heavy and overly-complicated....for sure, but
innovative at least.
What you propose is intruiging.... how about an entire upper or lower
wing surface designed to dissipate heat?....
Or a large underbelly section? We have so much more space to work with
compared to a car .... I wonder how much heat a single (long) aluminum
pipe would radiate? What if it was equipped with fins of some sort?
Hmmmmm.... it is true as you suggest. We have locked ourselves in with
the concept of automotive radiators. There may be a lighter, easier
design that would be tailor-made to an aircraft...
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | caspainhower(at)aep.com |
07/12/2003 08:40:36 AM
Congratulations Dave, looking forward to hearing more about future flights!
Please post your performance figures when you get it rung out a little. I
plan to use the Lycoming also. What prop did you use and did you go with
an aftermarket starter and/or alternator to lighten the engine? I wonder
if it would be acceptable to adjust/bias the trim for more nose up.
Craig S.
601 XL
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
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contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Reese Nelson" <reesen(at)hotmail.com> |
Does anyone know how the CH 701 flies without the LE slats? I would be
willing to sacrifice STOL if I could spin the plane.
Reese
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff & Marcia Davidson" <jdavidso(at)fcc.net> |
Phil,
Concerning "I got a call yesterday from my insurance underwriter (AIG).
They have
agreed in theory to pay me the full agreed value of my CH601HDS minus my
$100 deductable. ", what was the process used to determine the value of your
craft?
jeff davidson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike sinclair <mike.sinclair(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Philips seat belt failure |
Philip
You said that your seat belt failed during your accident, and I was curious as
to
where it broke. I seen an instance 2 or 3 years ago where a 701 out in Colorado
flipped over on a forced landing and there were pictures posted showing that his
seat belt failed by pulling the bolt right out of the .040 thick central attach
strap (I hope this is correct, if anyone else seen this and I have made an error,
please let me know). I am currently adding an additional .030 thick strap
anchored with A5 rivets at slightly different angles from the zenith design, at
all 6 attach points. Figure better safe than sorry.
Philip Polstra wrote:
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike sinclair <mike.sinclair(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | 701 Cowl Project |
For those interested, Scott Laughlin at "cooknwithgas.com" has posted pictures
of
the sequential process I went through to create a mold for my cowl. I quesstimate
that the whole process of building a plug, laying up a mold, and laying up a
cowl, will be under 120 hours total. Plus it is going to be a lot better looking
than the Zenith supplied cowl. This is not intended to represent the best way to
make your own cowl, just another possible solution. I have done quite a bit of
fiberglass before, but this has been my most ambitious project so far. And I
found a couple things that I would do a little differently if I had to do it
again. But overall would be pretty much as you see on Scott's web site. Thanks
Scott for hosting this. By the way, you will probably need Internet Explorer to
view the pictures, Netscape won't do. I think it must be some Microsoft
proprietary thing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com> |
Phil,
Concerning "I got a call yesterday from my insurance underwriter (AIG).
They have
agreed in theory to pay me the full agreed value of my CH601HDS minus my
$100 deductable. ", what was the process used to determine the value of your
craft?
The aircraft has an agreed value of $35k. What that means is that I
requested that much coverage from the insurance company and they agreed that
the plane was worth at least that much. In retrospect I should have gotten
more coverage. I thought at the time I could get something equivalent for
the same money, but I don't think that's true.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Philips seat belt failure |
You said that your seat belt failed during your accident, and I was curious
as to
where it broke.
The seatbelt broke on the outboard attach point. The long piece of metal
that the bolt goes into literally tore. The bolt was still in the piece. I
think I pulled some serious g's though. I was still going at least 50 mph
when I hit a stump with the left main that stopped me and spun me almost
instantly. There was enough force involved to launch my tow bar clear
through the canopy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Cowl Project |
--- mike sinclair wrote:
>
> For those interested, Scott Laughlin at "cooknwithgas.com" has posted pictures
of
> the sequential process I went through to create a mold for my cowl. ....
...
> By the way, you will probably need Internet Explorer to
> view the pictures, Netscape won't do. I think it must be some Microsoft
> proprietary thing.
FYI, Netscape 7.02 works perfectly.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zodie Rocket" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca> |
HI Group it would seem that the matronics weasel caught me. I was a
little longer building a new puter and was kicked off the list. Hope I
didn't miss too much. I do have a question however.
In the 601XL plans the flap motor is referred to as Commercial Aircraft
Company P/N D145-0036-3. I seem to be at a loss as to where this company
is located? Do they have a website? What have others done for the flap
motor other then buy them from ZAC at $400.00 U.S.
Mark
601XL EA-82MPFI Turbo
Alma, Ontario
-----Original Message-----
Congratulations Dave, looking forward to hearing more about future
flights!
Please post your performance figures when you get it rung out a little.
I
plan to use the Lycoming also. What prop did you use and did you go
with
an aftermarket starter and/or alternator to lighten the engine? I
wonder
if it would be acceptable to adjust/bias the trim for more nose up.
Craig S.
601 XL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pete Ritter <cpritter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: LE slats/ nuts?? |
On Saturday 12 July 2003 08:40 pm, you wrote:
> bit "functionally" ugly (though not as UGLY as a Sonnex!!!) but
> strapped in the seats on a small grass strip the 701 is a creation from
> the Wizard of OZ.(Straight UP Toto!!!)
If it flies, it ain't ugly. Even if it is a Sonex!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Cribb" <wscribb(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Drive - Commercial Aircraft Products |
Hello Mark,
Here is how to contact Commercial Aircraft Products.
Address: 2311 So. Edwards
Wichita, KS 67213
phone: 316-942-7987
fax: 316-942-3588
I bought my flap drive directly from CAP in last year, cost was $265 plus
shipping. They are really great people to deal with. Lead time is approx 7
days after ordering.
Take care
Bill Cribb
N601WC reserved
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zodie Rocket" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: YAHOOO
>
>
> > In the 601XL plans the flap motor is referred to as Commercial Aircraft
> Company P/N D145-0036-3. I seem to be at a loss as to where this company
> is located? >
> Mark
> 601XL EA-82MPFI Turbo
> Alma, Ontario
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | Seat belt failures |
Quite a few months ago, an 801 crashed and I happened to see a picture of
the seat belt attachment bracket from that aircraft where the bolt that
attaches the belt to the bracket completely pulled through the
bracket. More recently, Phil Polstra was kind enough to send me a picture
of his 601 attachment bracket that had failed in the middle of the
bracket. Both bracket failures caused injuries.
Curious about this, and intending to "beef" mine up a bit, I sent an
inquiry to ZAC about the human factors the bracket was designed for and
received this reply from Chris Heintz:
"the standard occupant weight used is 80kg = 176lbs (corresponds to
FAR 23 requirements) and a forward ultimate load factor of 9. The
attachment were successfully static tested for above loads, but with
240lbs occupant the ultimate load factor is reduced to 176 divided by
240 multiplied by 9 = 6.5!! Thicker brackets in aluminum or steel
will be Ok, but the attach to the airplane need also more A5 rivets!"
Curiously, if you look up FAR 23.785:
Seats, berths, litters, safety belts, and shoulder harnesses.
[There must be a seat or berth for each occupant that meets the following:]
(a) Each seat/restraint system and the supporting structure must be
designed to support occupants weighing at least 215 pounds when subjected
to the maximum load factors corresponding to the specified flight and
ground load conditions, as defined in the approved operating envelope of
the airplane. In addition, these loads must be multiplied by a factor of
1.33 in determining the strength of all fittings and the attachment of--
(1) Each seat to the structure; and
(2) Each safety belt and shoulder harness to the seat or structure.
I have no idea why the FAR for this particular item uses a safety factor of
1.3 instead of its usual 1.5. It is nice to note that Chris uses 1.6.
I am 6' 1" and my pilot son is 6' 4" and one of the reasons we chose the
801 was its load carrying capacity. Yeah, I could stand to loose some
weight, and in fact I have since building this thing, but I know many, many
pilots heavier than me, and very many that are heavier than 176 lbs - not
to mention passengers!
Therefore, I am going to make my selt belt brackets thicker (and/or steel)
and use more rivets! One sure hopes you never need them, but if you do,
you sure want them to work!
Gary Liming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
Reese,
I wouldnt dare, each plane is designed with some goals in mind, why
dont you build a 601 if you want a faster plane?
There has to be another high wing that will fly as you spected (if you
want high wing), without fooling around and risking yourself (and the
sport) as a test pilot. Flying a plane with a peace of mind is
important to enjoy the sport... the wing design is an important part
of any plane.
Get a second opinion, and keep looking, if you dont find another plane
better than the 701, we will be happy to have you as another builder
here.
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S.
My wings look great with the slots...
--- Reese Nelson wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone know how the CH 701 flies without the LE slats? I would
> be
> willing to sacrifice STOL if I could spin the plane.
>
> Reese
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall true <randtrue(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Questions from a new member |
I'm building a 601 intro rudder kit to see what the
Heintz system is like. 1) Is spray zinc oxide a pretty
good way to go, or is there a better and or easier way
to do it? 2) Is there a better pre-cleaner than mek?
3) Does anyone know if the system that sprays in oil
after the parts are done is effective? 4) What is this
CH152 you are talking about and where can I learn
about it? Thanks, Randall True in Creston, Ca.
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1(at)mail.ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions from a new member |
>
>I'm building a 601 intro rudder kit to see what the
>Heintz system is like. 1) Is spray zinc oxide a pretty
>good way to go, or is there a better and or easier way
>to do it? 2) Is there a better pre-cleaner than mek?
>3) Does anyone know if the system that sprays in oil
>after the parts are done is effective? 4) What is this
>CH152 you are talking about and where can I learn
>about it? Thanks, Randall True in Creston, Ca.
>>
I chased coating problems for a living for 33 yrs and offer the following for what
it's worth to you.
If you were working on your car and got your hands all greasy would you rub them
with MEK (or any thinner,even if it was safe) and then wipe you hands on a dry
towel? Probably not. What you would do is to get the oil and grime suspended
by using a surfactant (soap ) and then rinse the goop away with water. ALL
that you do with solvents and a rag is chase the oils around in smaller and smaller
concentrations . It doesn't take much to affect the adhesion of a coating.
Use a good metal cleaner (WO-1, Metal Prep) to get things loose and WASH IT
OFF . Two applications is better than one. LOW&SLOW John Bolding
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Seat belt failures |
In a message dated 7/12/2003 9:09:19 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
gary(at)liming.org writes:
>
>
> Therefore, I am going to make my selt belt brackets thicker (and/or steel)
> and use more rivets! One sure hopes you never need them, but if you do,
> you sure want them to work!
>
> Gary Liming
Amen to that.!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Stout" <n282rs(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions from a new member |
Randall
1) It just depends on what you want. The spray in the cans, zinc chromate or
zinc phosphate, has several drawbacks: One causes cancer, neither is good to
breathe, they clog easy, and are expensive. You can go to a boat shop and
find a quart size can of zinc chromate that you can brush on. It goes a lot
farther that the spray cans, is cheaper in the long run, and you don't have
to mess with a respirator to keep from breathing it in.
2) John already gave you a good answer. The only thing I might add is to not
touch the parts with your bare hands after cleaning them.
3) Don't know
4) Rumor mill has it the Zenith is working on an aircraft the looks similar
to a C-152. Hopefully with much better performance. Nothing has been
released officially. Somewhere on the Zenith site is a place where you can
sign up for their email updates. http://www.zenithair.com/maillist.html I'm
sure they will send out a message when it's official.
Randy Stout - San Antonio TX
CH601HD N282RS
r5t0ut(at)earthlink.net
http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
----- Original Message -----
From: "randall true" <randtrue(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Questions from a new member
>
> I'm building a 601 intro rudder kit to see what the
> Heintz system is like. 1) Is spray zinc oxide a pretty
> good way to go, or is there a better and or easier way
> to do it? 2) Is there a better pre-cleaner than mek?
> 3) Does anyone know if the system that sprays in oil
> after the parts are done is effective? 4) What is this
> CH152 you are talking about and where can I learn
> about it? Thanks, Randall True in Creston, Ca.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | auto-engine cooling system that works |
Dear Listers:
After following the recent discussion regarding water cooling system design/placement/problems, I took my camera to the airport yesterday and took a few pictures of the BeltedAir, Chevrolet 4.3L, V6 powered RV-6A. I know it's neither a Zenith aircraft nor a subaru engine. It is a very clean liquid-cooled installation that works. The baffling completely isolates the exhaust system from the ram air. All air that enters the cowl inlets that is not used by the carburetor is directed through the radiator. Maybe the concepts shown here can be used in the ZA installations. Thought you water-cooled builders would like to see this. More information is available at www.beltedair.com Links to the pictures are:
www.mindspring.com/~newstandardmfg/beltedairtop.jpg
www.mindspring.com/~newstandardmfg/beltedairfront.jpg
Hope this help,
Randy L. Thwing, 701 plans, Las Vegas, NV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Swinford" <grs-pms(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions from a new member |
Randall:
In mid construction of my 601HD I switched from zinc chromate to a grey
self-etching primer called Mar-Hyde which I buy at an auto paint store. It
has a good appearance and seems to adhere very well. I don't know how
dangerous it may be if inhaled, but less than zinc chromate, I'm sure. I
have no experience with zinc oxide so I can't make a comparison there. MEK
has worked well for me, especially when used with a green Scotch-brite pad.
I never heard of spraying oil into the primed areas, but i know that LPS 3
has been used. I doubt that it's necessary.
George
----- Original Message -----
From: "randall true" <randtrue(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Questions from a new member
>
> I'm building a 601 intro rudder kit to see what the
> Heintz system is like. 1) Is spray zinc oxide a pretty
> good way to go, or is there a better and or easier way
> to do it? 2) Is there a better pre-cleaner than mek?
> 3) Does anyone know if the system that sprays in oil
> after the parts are done is effective? 4) What is this
> CH152 you are talking about and where can I learn
> about it? Thanks, Randall True in Creston, Ca.
>
> __________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Questions from a new member |
| From: | caspainhower(at)aep.com |
07/13/2003 02:11:09 PM
Randall,
I just went through the Zenith workshop (in February) and they are
using a clear primer now instead of the zinc oxide. It's not supposed to
be so toxic and it brushes or rolls on easily. I have completed the tail,
and wing control surfaces so far using just under a quart. I've gotten
good adhesion cleaning with just laquer thinner, but I'm not one to debate
the experts. I've read about the oil type protectants, supposedly they
work pretty good. I don't know what type of frequency you need to re-apply
them though. I definitely lean towards priming the interior while its
being assembled, it's like the ultimate z-bart treatment. Good luck on
the rudder!
Craig S.
601 XL
randall true
To: zenith list
Sent by: cc:
owner-zenith-list-server@ma Subject: Zenith-List:
Questions from a new member
tronics.com
07/13/03 04:40 AM
Please respond to
zenith-list
I'm building a 601 intro rudder kit to see what the
Heintz system is like. 1) Is spray zinc oxide a pretty
good way to go, or is there a better and or easier way
to do it? 2) Is there a better pre-cleaner than mek?
3) Does anyone know if the system that sprays in oil
after the parts are done is effective? 4) What is this
CH152 you are talking about and where can I learn
about it? Thanks, Randall True in Creston, Ca.
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole
use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Seat belt attachments |
| From: | David Tellet <telletdl(at)erols.com> |
This is good information, why don't you want it archived?
I also went through the calculations and it appeared that the 0.040
straps were sized for the 175 lb person for 9 gs. Didn't look like the
1.33 was used for the fitting sizes. But my straps in the kit appear
to be 0.063. I still beefed them up a little to prevent the bolt from
pulling through and because I doubt I'll see 175 again.
David Tellet, 601HD, ~50% done
On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 12:32 AM, George Swinford wrote:
>
>
> Re Gary's comments on crash loads and load factors:
>
> The 1.3 load factor is what is known as a "fitting factor" and is
> applied in the design of all the fittings in the airplane to account
> for uncertainties in the analysis of load distribution and other
> things unique to fittings. The fitting factor is used in addition to
> the 1.5 "factor of safety" that is applied to the greatest expected
> operating load or "limit load" to define the "ultimate load". In other
> words, for fittings like wing, tail and landing gear attachments, it's
> limit load multiplied by 1.5 then multiplied again by the 1.3 fitting
> factor to get the ultimate design load. For parts like ribs and spars
> only the 1.5 factor is applied. Seat belt and shoulder harness
> fittings are designed by ultimate loads since their normal operating
> loads are trivial by comparison.
>
> Limit load is the greatest load the airplane or part is expected to
> stand without being permanently distorted. For loads greater than
> limit load but less than ultimate load the airplane or part may be
> permanently bent, but it will function without failure.At ultimate
> load the part may break. A well designed airplane won't carry loads
> much above the design ultimate, because the designer doesn't want to
> incorporate any more weight than the ultimate load requires.
>
> Incidentally, a properly restrained person can survive a lot more than
> 9g forward. I'm using 20g for redesigning my seat and shoulder
> restraints, figuring the load to be equally divided between seat and
> shoulder harness and using 200 pounds for weight. The basic structure
> may not be adequate for that but at least the fittings won't fail
> before the rest of the airplane. I think the cockpits in some ag
> airplanes are designed for much higher crash loads.
>
> Those of you who already knew all this, forgive me for being so
> long-winded.
>
> George
>
> Do not
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Jones" <fjones(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Questions from a new member |
I know of people who built aircraft in the 70s using Zinc Chromate. They
don't show any sign of corrosion damage. That proof sold me on the use
of Zinc Chromate. What I did not like was the toxicity of the sprayed
version. It contains some nasty chemicals that will be readily inhaled.
I just bought the can of zinc chromate liquid and cut it with lacquer
thinner to apply it with a paint brush. I hope its not too toxic this
way.
______________________
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ
601 XL
______________________
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of randall
true
Subject: Zenith-List: Questions from a new member
I'm building a 601 intro rudder kit to see what the
Heintz system is like. 1) Is spray zinc oxide a pretty
good way to go, or is there a better and or easier way
to do it? 2) Is there a better pre-cleaner than mek?
3) Does anyone know if the system that sprays in oil
after the parts are done is effective? 4) What is this
CH152 you are talking about and where can I learn
about it? Thanks, Randall True in Creston, Ca.
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Beading aluminum tubing |
List,
In the effort to set the radiator back, aluminum tubes
that would join hoses or reach between the firewall hoses and radiator hose elbows,
one does need to raise an edge to make good the hose clamp
connections. I found that if a short steel plug with a taper is placed in each
end,
it can be hammered to bring both ends to a smooth radius flare. I'm, for now,
using
1"-.049 and bringing it to 1-1/8" flare which provides a serious grip over the
conventional
rolled hump.
Looking for a good heater core for this thing.
Larry McFarland - 601hds
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Croke" <jon(at)joncroke.com> |
| Subject: | Zenith Newsletters |
I am interested in reviewing the past issues of the Zenith newsletters... I
understand there are some interesting tidbits that might be useful in the
construction of my 701.
I do not want to waste another tree and order a set of copies for myself, so
I was wondering if anyone would be interested in 'loaning' me their copies
for a week after which I would return them. I would first send that person
a cash deposit to ensure they would in fact get them back from me in a
timely manner. Also, I would be happy to pay a fee for this service!
(deduct from my deposit for shipping/handling etc)
OK, I'm a cheapskate! But since these are not online (and why is this? ZAC
has a great website and email notification system), and if anyone would like
to recoupe some of their original cost of these newsletters and help a
builder out... then email me direct.
Thanks
Jon Croke
701 (w/slats firmly attached!) 90%
near Green Bay, Wi
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall true <randtrue(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | New clear primer |
Craig, can you tell us the name of and source for the
new clear primer that the work shop used? Thanks,
Randall
>
>
>
>
> 07/13/03 04:40 AM
>
>
> Please respond to
>
>
> zenith-list
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm building a 601 intro rudder kit to see what the
> Heintz system is like. 1) Is spray zinc oxide a
> pretty
> good way to go, or is there a better and or easier
> way
> to do it? 2) Is there a better pre-cleaner than mek?
> 3) Does anyone know if the system that sprays in oil
> after the parts are done is effective? 4) What is
> this
> CH152 you are talking about and where can I learn
> about it? Thanks, Randall True in Creston, Ca.
>
>
> This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted
> with it from the
> Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power
> are for the sole
> use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain
> confidential and
> privileged information. Any unauthorized review,
> use, disclosure or
> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please
> contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all
> copies of the original
> message.
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chip W Erwin" <aircraft(at)czaw.cz> |
I am sorry but we have no information on that engine at all. We
recommend the Rotax 912ULS.
Regards,
CHIP
Chip W. Erwin
CZECH AIRCRAFT WORKS, S.R.O.
Manufacturer of Sport Aircraft & Aircraft Floats
Lucn 1824, 686 02 Star Mesto, Czech Republic
Tel: +420 572 543 456 Fax: +420 572 543 692
USA Fax: (772) 264 0936
Mobile Tel: (420) 602 342 717
E-mail: aircraft(at)czaw.cz www.airplane.cz
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gpjann(at)juno.com
Subject:
I'm looking for performance information for a Zodiac 601 HD/HDS/XL
powered by a Corvair engine.
Thanks, Greg
gpjann(at)juno.com
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Guy Cotnoir" <guy_cotnoir(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Zenith into Sonex |
Hi all,=0D
I am building a Sonex and I am considering the incorporation of a few =0D
Zenith ideas into my Sonex.=0D
The Zenith aileron hinge is made to be almost permanently installed.=0D
Has anyone ever needed to remove their ailerons from the wings?=0D
Is there a Zenith plans owner in the Toronto area (Canada)?=0D
=0D
Please reply to guy_cotnoir(at)msn.com=0D
=0D
Thanx=0D
Guy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Questions from a new member |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> Somewhere on the Zenith site is a place where you can
> sign up for their email updates. http://www.zenithair.com/maillist.html I'm
> sure they will send out a message when it's official.
Thanks Randy -- I didn't even know this existed - now I'm signed up.
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zenith into Sonex |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> From: "Guy Cotnoir" <guy_cotnoir(at)msn.com>
...
> Has anyone ever needed to remove their ailerons from the wings?
The rivets can be drilled out and the aileron removed with a little care.
Not something I'd recommend as a 'regular' operation, but certainly do-able.
I'm curious why this is important?
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Thompson <rcav8r(at)charter.net> |
Jon,
ZAC doesn't put out the newsletters. They're done independently. Thats
why they aren't online.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Thompson <rcav8r(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Zenith plans on eBay |
All, I've put my 4th edition plans on eBay. just search for zenith 701
on eBay motors. This includes the plans, manual, and all the newsletters
concerning the 701. If I can't get my price on eBay, I'll take them to
the aeromart at Oshkosh.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
That's partially true.
I discussed the idea of making the newsletter an (optional) on-line service (i.e.,
e-mailed), but the publisher (Steve Krog) didn't think it was worthwhile, as a
significant number of the subscribers aren't "internet enabled".
Carlos
--- John Thompson wrote:
>
> Jon,
> ZAC doesn't put out the newsletters. They're done independently. Thats
> why they aren't online.
>
> John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New clear primer |
| From: | caspainhower(at)aep.com |
07/14/2003 10:05:00 AM
can you tell us the name of and source for the
new clear primer that the work shop used?
The product is called Cortec and according to ZAC it is available in St.
Louis but only in 5 gallon quantities. ZAC sells it for $20/qt.
Craig S.
601 XL Tail, flaps and ailerons done, used ~ 3/4 qt.
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: eloquent- NO, honest- Yes |
In a message dated 7/12/2003 10:29:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
fredspoor2002(at)yahoo.com writes:
> the guy
> is a complete asshole for even considering doing such
> a STUPID thing (or asking about it)..
I think you are out of line here. This is not the way you should treat
people that have a question for this list. It will shy people away from a medium
that is designed for just such questions. The person should not be didiculed
for experimenting with an idea.
I also think you need to get yourself a bit more class. Your trashy response
simply shows you are an ignorant member of this list. Which I WOULD PROBABLY
THINK MOST OF IT'S MEMBERS WOULD LIKE TO SEE GONE.
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Barth <davids601xl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Zinc-Chromate |
Frank
The vapours from the brush-on zinc-chromate is very
strong too. Princess Auto sells a respirator and
filter cartridges, I think it was about $30 total and
it really works well. I even use it when I brush on
the zinc-chromate outdoors. It is really cheap
insurance for your health.
FWIW
David
--- Frank Jones wrote:
> I just bought the can of zinc chromate liquid and
> cut it with lacquer
> thinner to apply it with a paint brush. I hope its
> not too toxic this
> way.
>
> ______________________
> Frank Jones
> C-GYXQ
> 601 XL
> ______________________
>
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder
Currently making parts.
Stab, elevator and Rudder waiting for skins. Flaps and ailerons ready for inspection.
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Jones" <fjones(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | RE: Zinc-Chromate |
David, thanks for the tip. I was banking on the spray containing all the
harmful stuff to help the Zinc Chromate get applied. It's too late now
for this airplane (and this body). Hopefully I'll live long enough at
least to fly it, and then some.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Barth
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Zinc-Chromate
Frank
The vapours from the brush-on zinc-chromate is very
strong too. Princess Auto sells a respirator and
filter cartridges, I think it was about $30 total and
it really works well. I even use it when I brush on
the zinc-chromate outdoors. It is really cheap
insurance for your health.
FWIW
David
--- Frank Jones wrote:
> I just bought the can of zinc chromate liquid and
> cut it with lacquer
> thinner to apply it with a paint brush. I hope its
> not too toxic this
> way.
>
> ______________________
> Frank Jones
> C-GYXQ
> 601 XL
> ______________________
>
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder
Currently making parts.
Stab, elevator and Rudder waiting for skins. Flaps and ailerons ready
for inspection.
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Guy Cotnoir" <guy_cotnoir(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith into Sonex |
Guy Cotnoir wrote: =0D
"Has anyone ever needed to remove their ailerons from the wings?"=0D
=0D
Grant Corriveau wrote: =0D
"I'm curious why this is important?"=0D
=0D
I am looking to MAYBE use the Zenith hinge on the Sonex control =0D
surfaces, and also I am considering modifying the aileron counterweight =0D
but this modification would make the removal of the aileron/counterweight =0D
assembly difficult.=0D
Still, it would save as much as 6 pounds over the per-plans counterweight =0D
and would be better at canceling flutter.=0D
=0D
guy_cotnoir(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Tauch" <erictauch(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New clear primer |
I found this website....I dont know which specific product ZAC is using.
I am interested in using this too.
http://www.cortecvci.com/Products/Coatings/coatings.php
Eric Tauch
----- Original Message -----
From: <caspainhower(at)aep.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New clear primer
>
>
> can you tell us the name of and source for the
> new clear primer that the work shop used?
>
> The product is called Cortec and according to ZAC it is available in St.
> Louis but only in 5 gallon quantities. ZAC sells it for $20/qt.
>
> Craig S.
> 601 XL Tail, flaps and ailerons done, used ~ 3/4 qt.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Frisby" <marslander(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | LE slats closing slot?? |
I think we would all agree that the 801 and 701 cannot be flown without the
slats. The effect on the center of lift alone would be disasterous, add to
that the fact that without the slat, the wing has no recognizable
aerodynamic design.
on the other hand, it might be possible to fly the plane with the slat
blocked, such that it is streamlined with the wing skin and no air can flow
through it. In fact, I believe ZAC has broached this subject with the
idea that it might improve cruise speed for cross-country flight.
I have thought about taping up a short (then longer if successful) section
of the bottom the slat opening on each side of my 801 (it's not flying yet)
to observe the effect on flight performance.
Jim Frisby
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall true <randtrue(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LE slats closing slot?? |
Perhaps Reese would be interested in learning about
the Savannah, a 701 kit built in Italy, but with a
more standard type wing and elevator I think. Take off
roll is about double, but cruise is about 10 knots
faster, and I assume it can be spun. Randall
--- Jim Frisby wrote:
>
>
>
> I think we would all agree that the 801 and 701
> cannot be flown without the
> slats. The effect on the center of lift alone would
> be disasterous, add to
> that the fact that without the slat, the wing has no
> recognizable
> aerodynamic design.
>
> on the other hand, it might be possible to fly the
> plane with the slat
> blocked, such that it is streamlined with the wing
> skin and no air can flow
> through it. In fact, I believe ZAC has broached
> this subject with the
> idea that it might improve cruise speed for
> cross-country flight.
>
> I have thought about taping up a short (then longer
> if successful) section
> of the bottom the slat opening on each side of my
> 801 (it's not flying yet)
> to observe the effect on flight performance.
>
> Jim Frisby
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Making big holes |
Guys,
I have just started fuselage and am working on the Bottom Channel 7F6-1 and Rear
Torque Tube Bearing 7F6-2. Sect 2 pg 12 of the manual calls for drilling a 1
1/8 " hole using a flat face drill bit. Does he mean a hole saw or a Forsner
bit? If not, what is this and where can you get it? I've tried my unibit and it
is making a mess. Does anyone have sugestions on drilling clean holes in this
size range.
Thanks for your help.
Jon Croke I do have all news letters sitting on the shelf, collecting dust at the
moment. I'll send them to you for a couple weeks as thanks for the great pics
on your web site.
Brian Unruh
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/bunruh/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RoyN9869L(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: LE slats closing slot?? |
To all interested CH-701 / Savannah comparison check out http://sky-rider.net
I am building a CH-701 but last October I flew this bird, and I only regret I
hadn't known of this aircraft sooner, what a great performer. Sorry folks but
"Spins" not recommended as well on this airframe as well. BTW this aircraft
is a couple grand cheaper than the CH-701 with 912S (kit form) and includes
everything and all sheet metal predrilled and deburred. Check out the site, you
might also check out the manufacturer www.icp.it for their highly modified
speedster CH-601 AKA the AMIGO. My 701 is to far along to quite I'm certain I
will enjoy my 701 when finished but I would be flying now had I bought a Savannah
kit (150 hrs airframe and 100 hrs Engine Install). Ah C'est la vie. Cheers
R. Roy
CH-701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jari Kaija" <jari.kaija(at)pp.inet.fi> |
| Subject: | Re: Making big holes |
> 1 1/8 " hole using a flat face drill bit. Does he mean a hole saw or a
> Forsner bit? If not, what is this and where can you get it? I've tried
> my unibit and it is making a mess. Does anyone have sugestions on
> drilling clean holes in this size range.
I'm using these two holecutters for big holes. Bigger one of these
(with two cutting blades) is intended to use with wood, but it works
very well with aluminium too. Only minor filing is required if any...
You should find similar tools from your local hardware store.
http://www.project-ch701.net/ch701_tools/big_circle_cutter.jpg
and couple pictures, how they work:
http://www.project-ch701.net/ch701_fuselage/big_rfuse78.jpg
http://www.project-ch701.net/ch701_wings/big_0066.jpg
-Jari / OH-XJJ
www.jarikaija.com
www.project-ch701.net
(Spammers! All spam messages will be deleted automatically
from server, so, save your miserable time...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jari Kaija" <jari.kaija(at)pp.inet.fi> |
| Subject: | Re: LE slats closing slot?? |
> BTW this aircraft is a couple grand cheaper than the CH-701
> with 912S (kit form) and includes
Yep, it's cheaper... In fact, I have copy of Savannah's
landing gear blue prints and I'm considering to buy
landing gear fork, brakes etc from Italy. Total prices
are something incredible when comparing ZAC or
ANY other manufacturer of airplane parts. And
greatest thing is, that I don't need pay even customs
duty, since Italy belongs EU-countries! :-)
-Jari / OH-XJJ
www.jarikaija.com
www.project-ch701.net
(Spammers! All spam messages will be deleted automatically
from server, so, save your miserable time...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CBRxxDRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wing reskin - (601HD) |
Well I have made forward progress. I reskined
the rear top skin and top of the wing tip on the right wing.
The .025 (was .016 ) made a big difference and turned out really nice. I
found that
the previous owner had been in the RT wing before because I found the
tale tell figure 8 holes. I made some L brackets as per ZAC and all is well.
I got the skin off the second wing last night.......no double holes .
Still have the panel/fuel system/electrical system/interior/paint to go :)
Maybe I should have bought a kit :))
The plane is down to a bare airframe now
Sal Capra
Lakeland, FL
My Home Page
http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Making big holes |
When they say flat face bit, that what it is. Irwin makes a flat spade bit
that has spurs on the outside corners. These spurs cut the circle in thin
metal long before the horizontal part hits.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: <RURUNY(at)aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Making big holes
>
> Guys,
>
> I have just started fuselage and am working on the Bottom Channel 7F6-1
and Rear Torque Tube Bearing 7F6-2. Sect 2 pg 12 of the manual calls for
drilling a 1 1/8 " hole using a flat face drill bit. Does he mean a hole saw
or a Forsner bit? If not, what is this and where can you get it? I've tried
my unibit and it is making a mess. Does anyone have sugestions on drilling
clean holes in this size range.
> Thanks for your help.
> Jon Croke I do have all news letters sitting on the shelf, collecting dust
at the moment. I'll send them to you for a couple weeks as thanks for the
great pics on your web site.
>
> Brian Unruh
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/bunruh/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Making big holes |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
I would also go ahead and cut a few test holes in spare stock and see
how the torque tube fits. Sometimes because of the tool not being true
to it's marking or from operatior error while drilling you'll end up
with a hole that is too large.
Don Honabach
-----Original Message-----
From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Making big holes
When they say flat face bit, that what it is. Irwin makes a flat spade
bit that has spurs on the outside corners. These spurs cut the circle
in thin metal long before the horizontal part hits.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: <RURUNY(at)aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Making big holes
>
> Guys,
>
> I have just started fuselage and am working on the Bottom Channel
> 7F6-1
and Rear Torque Tube Bearing 7F6-2. Sect 2 pg 12 of the manual calls for
drilling a 1 1/8 " hole using a flat face drill bit. Does he mean a hole
saw or a Forsner bit? If not, what is this and where can you get it?
I've tried my unibit and it is making a mess. Does anyone have
sugestions on drilling clean holes in this size range.
> Thanks for your help.
> Jon Croke I do have all news letters sitting on the shelf, collecting
> dust
at the moment. I'll send them to you for a couple weeks as thanks for
the great pics on your web site.
>
> Brian Unruh http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/bunruh/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <PAULROD36(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Cheap Hole Finder |
I lucked into this, and thought I'd pass it on------ As a result of yet another
malfunction of the linkage between my hat and my neck, I found I had to lay an
undrilled piece of sheet aluminum over a pre-drilled piece, and then figure
out how to find a hole several inches from the edge. Being too cheap to go buy
a hole finder, as well as skeptical about finding one the size I needed, I
tried this and it worked: I took two straight, narrow pieces of aluminum, lined
them up one on top of the other, and securely riveted one end. Then, I drilled
a hole (#30 in this case) through both pieces at the other end. I then removed
the business end of an A-4 rivet from the stem, stuck it through the bottom
piece, and laid a piece of masking tape on to hold it in place. Sliding
the lower piece under the undrilled sheet, I wiggled it around until it fell
into the hole, and there I was looking at the spot to drill. I imagine others
have figured out this quick and dirty solution, but I thought I'd pass it on
anyway.
It anybody has figure out other work aids, I'd like to hear about them (Probably
we ALL would.)
SECOND SUBJECT--- Has anybody figured out what headlight components would make
good landing lights? I'm looking to use small halogens from my local junkyard.
Paul Rodriguez
601 XL-Corvair still working on the wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: re: LE slats closing slot |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
I'm new to the list, and am still pondering the financial side of
building a CH701, but it sure looks like a great aircraft. I heard
Chris Heintz talk at Sun 'n Fun, and was very impressed. So FWIW, two
points:
1) he understandably wasn't real keen on the Savannah as a rip-off of
his design, and as I recall he felt that it was structurally inferior to
the CH701.
2) I don't think the Savannah's LE slats are any less fixed than the
CH701, although I could be wrong.
3) a little Googling reveals the following intriguing quote from a Yahoo
group:
"the French 'Le Guerin G1', a Zenair CH701/ Savannah look-alike, quite
fast at 100 MPH
claimed cruise speed) with genuinely easily folding wings and a leading
edge
that moved in (when travelling fast) and out (when travelling slowly) to
reduce
the drag and reduce the stall speed respectively. For an aircraft-type
that is
often described as 'agricultural' in appearance, the all-metal design
actually
looked quite good and the high standard of build quality was favourably
commented upon by many people there. AND it is a STOL aircraft par
excellence!" These were remarks regarding some show at Friedrichshaven,
I think. I couldn't find anything more on 'Le Guerin G1,' but I didn't
look very hard either.
I'd never want to experiment with a Chris Heintz design, but I'm
certainly curious if somebody else has and what the results are,
especially in the perhaps not-too-likely event of success.
Mark Hodgson
mhodgson(at)bu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Cortec primer - info from ZAC |
Here are some specifics on the Cortec primer:
> From: "Zenith Aircraft Company" <info(at)zenithair.com>
> To: carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:47:54 -0500
> Subject: Re: TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co.
>
>
> > I heard you are now using a clear primer instead of the zinc oxide.
> > (Feb/2003 workshop)
> >
> > Can you provide additional information?
>
> VCI-373 liquid wash primer/ coating with corrosion inhibitor
> This is a water-based, safe, non-toxic
> www.cortecvci.com
>
>
>
> Nick Heintz
> Zenith Aircraft Company
> support(at)zenithair.com
> http://www.zenithair.com
>
> Technical Support Disclaimer: While we strive to ensure that the
> advice/information provided through our support is correct, Zenith
> Aircraft Company does not accept any responsibility for errors or
> omissions. Any advice or information that Zenith Aircraft Company
> gives you via any form of communication is not a guarantee that it
> will correct your problem. It is only offered as assistance to you.
> Zenith Aircraft Company will not be held responsible for any loss or
> damage as a result of our advice or information supplied.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Corrosion Protection |
List . . .Here is a message I wrote to Nick regarding their use of a new
corrosion protection product. I am quite encouraged by his answer and
thought you might also be interested. Boy would it be great to be able to
use this stuff in the workshop without all the worries about face masks etc.
Hap Schoenberger 701 tail and rudder done, 60% right wing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zenith Aircraft Company" <info(at)zenithair.com>
Subject: Re: Corrosion Protection
> So far we have been pleased with the result, though it can be
> sprayed, we generally prefer to brush it on. When dry, the primer
> turns into a very durable clear coating.
>
> > 2. Which Cortec product product are you specifically using?
>
> VCI-373
>
> > 3. Can it be safely used inside without the usual respirator or
> > danger of explosion? I'm building in the basement and have to drag
> > parts, partially completely skeletons, wings with partial skin etc
> > up the stairs and out to the garage when I coat with Zinc Chromate.
> > It would be really nice to find a user friendly product.
>
> www.cortecvci.com
>
> This is a water-based, safe, non-toxic
>
> Nick Heintz
> Zenith Aircraft Company
> support(at)zenithair.com
> http://www.zenithair.com
>
> Technical Support Disclaimer: While we strive to ensure that the
> advice/information provided through our support is correct, Zenith
> Aircraft Company does not accept any responsibility for errors or
> omissions. Any advice or information that Zenith Aircraft Company
> gives you via any form of communication is not a guarantee that it
> will correct your problem. It is only offered as assistance to you.
> Zenith Aircraft Company will not be held responsible for any loss or
> damage as a result of our advice or information supplied.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Perry M. Chappano" <polestar(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cortec primer - info from ZAC |
I've been using the VCI-373 from the get go. Easy to use and clean up.
Probably will add some weight though.
Perry Chappano
Zodiac 601XL N9961
1940 Porterfield LC-65 NC32372
Carlos Sa wrote:
>
> Here are some specifics on the Cortec primer:
>
> > From: "Zenith Aircraft Company" <info(at)zenithair.com>
> > To: carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com
> > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:47:54 -0500
> > Subject: Re: TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co.
> >
> >
> > > I heard you are now using a clear primer instead of the zinc oxide.
> > > (Feb/2003 workshop)
> > >
> > > Can you provide additional information?
> >
> > VCI-373 liquid wash primer/ coating with corrosion inhibitor
> > This is a water-based, safe, non-toxic
> > www.cortecvci.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Nick Heintz
> > Zenith Aircraft Company
> > support(at)zenithair.com
> > http://www.zenithair.com
> >
> > Technical Support Disclaimer: While we strive to ensure that the
> > advice/information provided through our support is correct, Zenith
> > Aircraft Company does not accept any responsibility for errors or
> > omissions. Any advice or information that Zenith Aircraft Company
> > gives you via any form of communication is not a guarantee that it
> > will correct your problem. It is only offered as assistance to you.
> > Zenith Aircraft Company will not be held responsible for any loss or
> > damage as a result of our advice or information supplied.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Danielson" <steved(at)nc.rr.com> |
I called Cortec and got the number of my local distributor here in Raleigh,
NC. I just talked with him and it is $268.54 US for the 5 gallon pail.
That's 20 qts, so if ZAC is selling it at $20 a qt they aren't making much
(if any) off it. I was kind of hoping that it would be really cheap from the
source, but it isn't to be.
Here is a link to the cortec datasheet for this:
http://www.cortecvci.com/Publications/PDS/373.pdf
Here is the page that has the other details for it:
http://www.cortecvci.com/Products/products.php?showonly=HighPerfCoat
(got to scroll down a little to find it)
I've been using ZnCr (I have a quart that I bought from ACS and have been
thinning it & brushing on with a sponge brush) but when it runs out I think
I may try a quart of the Cortec. I've got too many little green dots on my
driveway around where I do my priming...
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | erictauch(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Cortec VcPI 373...topcoat?? |
Hi,
So in reading about the 373 product, it says it "has to be topcoated" (should
be?). This is probably for max wear. Just below the 373, was listed
the 374, which says it "can or cannot" be topcoated.
That is one thing that always bothered me about zinc chromates is that it
is essentially a primer and doesnt provide a good protection to moisture
or abrasion (?). I always imagine the primer as "soaking up water" and
such, although I'm sure thats not really the case.
I would like to try this new stuff, but wonder why they are not using the
374. It may be due to the fact that the 373 can be applied in a very
thin film (weight savings).
Eric
>
> I called Cortec and got the number of my local distributor here in Raleigh,
> NC. I just talked with him and it is $268.54 US for the 5 gallon pail.
> That's 20 qts, so if ZAC is selling it at $20 a qt they aren't making much
> (if any) off it. I was kind of hoping that it would be really cheap from the
> source, but it isn't to be.
>
> Here is a link to the cortec datasheet for this:
> http://www.cortecvci.com/Publications/PDS/373.pdf
>
> Here is the page that has the other details for it:
> http://www.cortecvci.com/Products/products.php?showonly=HighPerfCoat
> (got to scroll down a little to find it)
>
> I've been using ZnCr (I have a quart that I bought from ACS and have been
> thinning it & brushing on with a sponge brush) but when it runs out I think
> I may try a quart of the Cortec. I've got too many little green dots on my
> driveway around where I do my priming...
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Hole Finder |
Paul:
I didn't quite follow your description, but is sounds similar to my flange
finder pictured here:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/5_02_03_FlangeFinder.jpg
Your idea of putting the rivet-part is a good one for finding a hole. Mine
is more like for finding the center of a flange before drilling.
Thanks for the tip.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: <PAULROD36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Cheap Hole Finder
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:02:27 -0500
I lucked into this, and thought I'd pass it on------ As a result of yet
another malfunction of the linkage between my hat and my neck, I found I had
to lay an undrilled piece of sheet aluminum over a pre-drilled piece, and
then figure out how to find a hole several inches from the edge. Being too
cheap to go buy a hole finder, as well as skeptical about finding one the
size I needed, I tried this and it worked: I took two straight, narrow
pieces of aluminum, lined them up one on top of the other, and securely
riveted one end. Then, I drilled a hole (#30 in this case) through both
pieces at the other end. I then removed the business end of an A-4 rivet
from the stem, stuck it through the bottom piece, and laid a piece of
masking tape on to hold it in place. Sliding the lower piece under the
undrilled sheet, I wiggled it around until it fell into the hole, and there
I was looking at the spot to drill. I imagine others have figured out
this quick and dirty solution, b!
ut I thought I'd pass it on anyway.
It anybody has figure out other work aids, I'd like to hear about them
(Probably we ALL would.)
SECOND SUBJECT--- Has anybody figured out what headlight components would
make good landing lights? I'm looking to use small halogens from my local
junkyard.
Paul Rodriguez
601 XL-Corvair still working on the wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Making big holes |
This is what we used, we bought a set, very cheap, we use them with low
speed drill and very little pressure, hold the alum piece with lock
pliers (sp?) protect with thin pieces of plywood. Excelent results.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Cy Galley wrote:
>
> When they say flat face bit, that what it is. Irwin makes a flat
> spade bit
> that has spurs on the outside corners. These spurs cut the circle in
> thin
> metal long before the horizontal part hits.
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
> Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <RURUNY(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Zenith-List: Making big holes
>
>
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > I have just started fuselage and am working on the Bottom Channel
> 7F6-1
> and Rear Torque Tube Bearing 7F6-2. Sect 2 pg 12 of the manual calls
> for
> drilling a 1 1/8 " hole using a flat face drill bit. Does he mean a
> hole saw
> or a Forsner bit? If not, what is this and where can you get it? I've
> tried
> my unibit and it is making a mess. Does anyone have sugestions on
> drilling
> clean holes in this size range.
> > Thanks for your help.
> > Jon Croke I do have all news letters sitting on the shelf,
> collecting dust
> at the moment. I'll send them to you for a couple weeks as thanks for
> the
> great pics on your web site.
> >
> > Brian Unruh
> > http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/bunruh/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cortec primer - info from ZAC |
I kind of like the green color so I can easily distinguish parts that are
ready for assembly. I noticed that VpCI-373 is available in clear and also
green. I've requested dealer information in my area and I'll let you guys
know what kind of price I get here in Nebraska.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Perry M. Chappano" <polestar(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cortec primer - info from ZAC
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:46:52 -0400
I've been using the VCI-373 from the get go. Easy to use and clean up.
Probably will add some weight though.
Perry Chappano
Zodiac 601XL N9961
1940 Porterfield LC-65 NC32372
Carlos Sa wrote:
>
> Here are some specifics on the Cortec primer:
>
> > From: "Zenith Aircraft Company" <info(at)zenithair.com>
> > To: carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com
> > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:47:54 -0500
> > Subject: Re: TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co.
> >
> >
> > > I heard you are now using a clear primer instead of the zinc oxide.
> > > (Feb/2003 workshop)
> > >
> > > Can you provide additional information?
> >
> > VCI-373 liquid wash primer/ coating with corrosion inhibitor
> > This is a water-based, safe, non-toxic
> > www.cortecvci.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Nick Heintz
> > Zenith Aircraft Company
> > support(at)zenithair.com
> > http://www.zenithair.com
> >
> > Technical Support Disclaimer: While we strive to ensure that the
> > advice/information provided through our support is correct, Zenith
> > Aircraft Company does not accept any responsibility for errors or
> > omissions. Any advice or information that Zenith Aircraft Company
> > gives you via any form of communication is not a guarantee that it
> > will correct your problem. It is only offered as assistance to you.
> > Zenith Aircraft Company will not be held responsible for any loss or
> > damage as a result of our advice or information supplied.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek(at)golden.net> |
For those of you who are interested and have asked for photos of C-FDSF , 601 XL
w/0235
this not very computer literate person has just made an attemt to post some on
the photo site........I hope they make it??
Just an up date on flight testing
Wedenesday Am,July 9 1st flight - 1.5 hrs,6 T.O's & Landings on grass, all when
well(terrified)
Sunday Am July 13 2cd flight - 1.5 hrs of circuits at local airport on ashphalt,
Preforms wonderfull(definetly an improvment in preformance on ashphalt vs. grass.)
900-1000 ft. per min. climb at 80 mph. with full fuel and 2-225 lb people (not
bad)
Tuesday Am, July 14 3rd flight - .5 siteseeing and playing with trims and power
settings and generally getting the feel of things(a little more relaxed)Noteing
that climb and cruise not changing that noticably with one person or fully
loaded.
Weight differance noted mostly in Take off and on Flaring for landing.......
So far so good,what a lovely little bird,sure is a sweet handling thing.
(You must remember i come form a background of flying champs and cubs and ultra
lites for the last 28 years .
this is forcing me to hone my flying skills some what! )
Later .....dave kubassek,601 XL C-FDSF,0235 lyc.
1 year, 650 hrs later & or -
( first homebuilt XL to fly in Canada)
I cant believe i did it!!!!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Sent File: pdf/WaterTreatment.pdf etc. |
List . . . When I requested some information from Cortec, there was a place
to ask a question so I specifically asked them about plane construction. .
This is what I got back. The first attachment deals with 373 and the second
386. This tried to open in Acrobatic 2.1 and wouldn't. I then activated
3.0 and it came up okay. I'm a bit concerned about the recommendation of a
second coat of 386 on top of the 373. Hap Schoenberger 701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kpr Adcor Inc" <kpr(at)corrosionvci.com>
Subject: RE: Sent File: pdf/WaterTreatment.pdf etc.
>
> Prime aluminum with 373 and top coat with 386 aluminum coating is very
good
> for plane construction.
>
> KPR ADCOR INC 'We Stop Rust!' TM
> Toll free: 1-866-577-2326 Phone: 905-628-3232 Fax: 905-628-2529
> www.Corrosionvci.com www.Foodgradebag.com www.car-rust.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: H Robert Schoenberger [mailto:hrs4(at)prodigy.net]
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 1:34 PM
> To: kpr(at)corrosionvci.com
> Subject: Sent File: pdf/WaterTreatment.pdf etc.
>
>
> hrs4(at)prodigy.net (H Robert Schoenberger)
> requested the file(s) pdf/WaterTreatment.pdf
> I am interested in a corrosion protection for airplane construction. Is
the
> VCl - 373 the best product to use on new 6031 aluminum construction?
> Presently I'm using ZnChr. Thank you . . . Robert S. What are you
> supplying to the Zenith Aircraft Company in Mexico MO?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | abc abc <yah67890(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Slat stuff in the archives |
Found a lot of slat stuff in the
archives,
http://www.dedaliusaviation.com
Message: #19083
From: "michael brook" <walruss(at)optushome.com.au>
Subject: Re: 701 MODS
Date: Jan 27, 2002
I don't know if the theory of a dangerous mismatch in lift is real. My gut
feeling is that it would be but my friend who has the dedalius wings took
off the slats on one wing of his machine to test it out. Apparently there
wasn't that much difference in the stall characteristics of the machine.
There was some effect but it wasn't dangerous. He also took off the slats on
a 701 and tested the level flight characteristics of the bird with no slats
on. Low down it made a big difference but high up there wasn't that much.
Maybe 1-2kts at cruise.
http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/ht-87-8.html
Pegazair 15mph stall retractable slats
http://www.ultralightnews.com/plansbuyerguide/pegazair100stol.htm
http://www.tapanee.com/index.html
also cut
Message: #1255
I however also
have a problem on mine related to the slats, they are in the wrong position, i.
e. pre 1991 plans.
Maybe people with experience with the slats in an alternate position.
And in regard to another post, take off role for Savannah
Rotax582 130ft Rotax912 120ft Rotax912s 90ft i think the same as CH701
http://www.icp.it/avio_en.htm
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Monty Graves <mgraves(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re: LE slats closing slot/Savannah |
This is sort of off topic since its a Zenith list.
But I did a lot of looking at the Savannah at SnF. And there are a lot
more differences to the 701 than Zenith would probalby like us to believe.
These are the ones I know for sure that I observed.
1. longer wing span
2. fixed slats as the 701 but a much narrower slot opening and the best I
could measure with a piece of paper were a little longer slats than the 701
slats. i.e. they had a longer tail that rapped over the wing more about
3/4 inch
3. Tail is complety different. different shape, different size. And it
doesn't have the inverted horizontial stab for sure.
4. wing tips are made differently.
5 internal bulk heads are used in fuse are different.
6. Seats are different, looking behind the seats you can see the full
length of the plane
7. landing gear is attached to the fuse differently
8. corrigated skins to stop oil canning
So it has a different wing, different tail, different method to make the
fuse, different way to attach the landing gear, but the same general shape
and appearance.. How much does one have to change a plane to not be called
a copy?
Did all these changes make things better? I didn't fly the Savannah
Monty
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | re: LE slats closing slot/Savannah |
| From: | David Tellet <telletdl(at)erols.com> |
From looking at their website it sure looks like they've ripped off the
design from Zenith - same overall configuration, wing slats, fuse
angle, etc. They even use the same Y center stick idea. Okay, so form
follows function, so it's just coincidence that their other plane, the
Amigo, looks just like a 601 HD without a bubble canopy. They even use
the same airfoil section! (how long before they "develop" a better
wing just like the XL?).
Who knows, maybe they've taken the Zenith planes and made them better,
but it sure smells suspicious and I for one will stick with the
originals.
David Tellet, 601HD, ~50% done
>
> This is sort of off topic since its a Zenith list.
>
> But I did a lot of looking at the Savannah at SnF. And there are a lot
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | New Completions - Kit Planes |
Fellow Zenith Listers:
I have a subscription to "KitPlanes" magazine. Every month I get my new
copy and skim through once quickly and find myself near the end usually
around page 71. This is where KitPlanes shows photographs and a paragraph
or two of Completions. I see Vans RV-9s, KR2s, RV-6s, RVs, and more
RVs and even a Texas Chuckbird for goodness sake. Why dont we see any
completed Zenith aircraft in this magazine? OK, Im only 6 months new to
this, so maybe there were some before my time, but it is time for some new
completions to be published.
I know some of you are nearing completion and several of you have just
finished and are flying. Send your photos to KitPlanes and get our name out
there! Maybe some of you already have and I patiently wait each month to
see a Zenith aircraft on Page 71 or 72 of Kitplanes Magazine!
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re: LE slats closing slot/Savannah |
I think the same as you. Going faster (5 mph) in an airplane is not
that important (at least for me). If in a hurry I go by airline, is
useless to get there fast if flying is what I am enjoying! If
somebody is really in a hurry, there are always chances of getting
cought by the climate, so in first place, go flying in another ocasion
when you have all the time you need.
About Safety: I can't find a safer line of airplanes in his class than
ZAC's. More than 30 years experience says it all. Of course we need
to get off the incindents or accidents related to pilot error or engine
failure, they are important but has nothing to do with the airplane
design.
I also think that in airplanes, making an airplane lighter is the only
way to improve it, and takes a lot of knowledge to do this without
compromise structural safety in this airplanes, building the 701
proved to me that it cant be built lighter, great design.
There is always something to pay for everything. Want a faster
airplane? I am shure it "needs" a more proficient pilot, the fact that
we are weekenders (50 hrs a year average}.
Just one point of view.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- David Tellet wrote:
>
> From looking at their website it sure looks like they've ripped off
> the
> design from Zenith - same overall configuration, wing slats, fuse
> angle, etc. They even use the same Y center stick idea. Okay, so
> form
> follows function, so it's just coincidence that their other plane,
> the
> Amigo, looks just like a 601 HD without a bubble canopy. They even
> use
> the same airfoil section! (how long before they "develop" a better
> wing just like the XL?).
>
> Who knows, maybe they've taken the Zenith planes and made them
> better,
> but it sure smells suspicious and I for one will stick with the
> originals.
>
> David Tellet, 601HD, ~50% done
>
> >
> > This is sort of off topic since its a Zenith list.
> >
> > But I did a lot of looking at the Savannah at SnF. And there are a
> lot
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Completions - Kit Planes |
Someone knows if is needed to be a subscriber to Kitplanes to get the
photo published? I buy it at the newstand, I have the chance to get a
look to it and buy it only if I find something interesting enough.
The few there last less than a week and are sold out.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Scott Laughlin wrote:
>
>
> Fellow Zenith Listers:
>
> I have a subscription to "KitPlanes" magazine. Every month I get my
> new
> copy and skim through once quickly and find myself near the end
> usually
> around page 71. This is where KitPlanes shows photographs and a
> paragraph
> or two of Completions. I see Vans RV-9s, KR2s, RV-6s, RVs, and more
>
> RVs and even a Texas Chuckbird for goodness sake. Why dont we see
> any
> completed Zenith aircraft in this magazine? OK, Im only 6 months new
> to
> this, so maybe there were some before my time, but it is time for
> some new
> completions to be published.
>
> I know some of you are nearing completion and several of you have
> just
> finished and are flying. Send your photos to KitPlanes and get our
> name out
> there! Maybe some of you already have and I patiently wait each
> month to
> see a Zenith aircraft on Page 71 or 72 of Kitplanes Magazine!
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | 601's are good at X wind landings |
For the group that may have wondered what its like to land a 601 in a high
cross wind I have the following data.
My worst X wind landing was last Saturday at Corvallis, OR. Wind was 70deg
from the right at 19Kts, gusting 28Kts.
It was made a little more hair raising because I had 35 mins of fuel
remaining but exactly which wing tank it was all in was a bit of a question
(I have wing tanks only).
I darn't put the thing in a slip because if the fuel was all in the right
tank the engine would have quit on final...So I did the crab approach and
turned into a slip over the threashold.
I got blown over to the grass a couple of times but other than that the
plane handled it really nicely.
It was on of my better landings...:)
Frank
601 HDS Soob, 299 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brad Johnston" <bradley.johnston(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Completions - Kit Planes |
Hey cool! Which issue had the Chuckbird in it?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: New Completions - Kit Planes
>
> Fellow Zenith Listers:
>
> I have a subscription to "KitPlanes" magazine. Every month I get my new
> copy and skim through once quickly and find myself near the end usually
> around page 71. This is where KitPlanes shows photographs and a paragraph
> or two of Completions. I see Vans RV-9s, KR2s, RV-6s, RVs, and more
> RVs and even a Texas Chuckbird for goodness sake. Why dont we see any
> completed Zenith aircraft in this magazine? OK, Im only 6 months new to
> this, so maybe there were some before my time, but it is time for some new
> completions to be published.
>
> I know some of you are nearing completion and several of you have just
> finished and are flying. Send your photos to KitPlanes and get our name
out
> there! Maybe some of you already have and I patiently wait each month to
> see a Zenith aircraft on Page 71 or 72 of Kitplanes Magazine!
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1(at)mail.ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601's are good at X wind landings |
>I darn't put the thing in a slip because if the fuel was all in the right
>tank the engine would have quit on final...So I did the crab approach and
>turned into a slip over the threashold.
>
>I got blown over to the grass a couple of times but other than that the
>plane handled it really nicely.
>
>It was on of my better landings...:)
>
Funny how that when you're knee deep in adrenelin your focus and execution are
very precise, huh? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek(at)golden.net> |
| Subject: | 601 XL crosswind landing |
One morning while getting my check out on the XL owned by Flypass and we had crosswinds
of 15 gusting 25 at 30-40 degrees off the runway and she handled them
very well.
dave kubassek
C-FDSF 601 XL w/0235 Lyc.Still grinning :
)))) 3.5 hrs and starting to relax a little.
Everything preforming wonderfull.
I think i will install the 600 x 6 wheels vs the 5" and things should smooth out
a little for grass strip operation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Thomure" <rthomure(at)ameritech.net> |
I got in contact with Cortec today about their primers.
They recommended the VpCI-374, instead of the 373.
The 373 needs to be top coated, where the 374 is OK without a top coat.
Unfortunately they only sell the stuff in 5 gal and 55 gal drums.
Would there be enough interest for them to stock the stuff in quarts?
Ill try to get some price estimates for 5 gals and their price for smaller
lots.
Your guess on demand would be appreciated.
Randy Thomure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David J. Dormer" <revdjd(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
----- Original Message -----
From: David J. Dormer
Subject: Re: New Completions - Kit Planes
Mr. Laughlin:
I, too, have made the same observation regarding what appears to be the greater
popularity of the RV airplane over that of the Zenith line. It would appear to
the outside observer that the RV line has something going for it that Zenith
doesn't and I wish I knew what that "something" was. It certainly isn't cost
and I say this because it is my understanding that building an RV is more expensive,
overall, than building a Zenith. I don't think it is ease of construction
for I have been told, by those who should know, that building an RV is more
difficult. All this makes me wonder if the RV's popularity has to do with a belief
that it is a better engineered airplane, with greater quality, when it comes
to the parts and materials that make up the airplane? Or could it be that
the RV line simply has more models available for sale than that of Zenith? All
this is pure speculation on my part. However, it is very apparent that the RV
is more popular as a kitplane given the numbers out there and the "cottage industries"
that have come into existence that provide after-market accessories
for RV aircraft. In any case, it is to be sure that there must be some solid
reasons for its popularity. I wish I knew what they are.
D.J. Dormer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pwalsh4539(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
RV popularity vs Zenith.......Resale is one reason. Speed is another. Also,
some see it as a "real" airplane as opposed to a 601 being a semi-ultralite.
This is what I have heard people say, not that it is of any importance to me, as
I love my 601, except the resale part. An RV does have higher resale. Oh
maybe the "real" rivets...flush, etc. make it more of a airplane to many, or the
aluminum is "real" aircraft aluminum. Of course RVs use Lycomings as standard
fare, as opposed to the Rotaxes, which still have not caught on with the
certified crowd and the RV is viewed as a "certified" experimental, if that makes
any sense. Rotaxes are still thought of as snowmobile engines by many. This is
not how I personally feel, but again it is what I have heard
Patrick Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Tauch" <erictauch(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
I am not so sure that Vans has sold many more RVs than Zenith has sold
Zodiacs...I think the sales figures are
in the "same ballpark". One thing I have heard is that Zenith sells a lot
more overseas as well as
domestically, -vs- Vans sells mainly in the US.
I have RV8 tailkit and plans that I plan on finishing some day. First I
will finish the 601XL, as its much
faster to build. My opinion, comparing the two is similar to comparing a
Volkswagen to a Ford Mustang.
Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: <wizard-24(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes
>
>
> > RV's popularity has to do with a belief that it is a better
> > engineered airplane, with greater quality, when it comes to the
> > parts and materials that make up the airplane?
>
> That's precisely it, in my opinion. I've seen RV's being built, and
> compared to the 601XL kit I received, there's a substantial difference in
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | abc abc <yah67890(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Importing a Kit to Australia, cost,tax,gst,customs. |
Has anyone had experience importing a kit to Australia?.
I am thinking about the handling charges ,customs,import duty, sales tax, storage,
quarantine, gst, shipping time.
Did you have a broker?, Cost? and Problems?.
Any sites that may be useful?.
Many thanks
Tony
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Tauch" <erictauch(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cortec Primer...373 vs 374 |
I would be interested in getting some, but I was wondering why ZAC went with
the 373. It may be because
it is a wash primer and is thus very thin/light (?).
Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall Thomure" <rthomure(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Cortec Primer
>
> I got in contact with Cortec today about their primers.
> They recommended the VpCI-374, instead of the 373.
> The 373 needs to be top coated, where the 374 is OK without a top coat.
>
> Unfortunately they only sell the stuff in 5 gal and 55 gal drums.
>
> Would there be enough interest for them to stock the stuff in quarts?
>
> Ill try to get some price estimates for 5 gals and their price for smaller
> lots.
>
> Your guess on demand would be appreciated.
>
> Randy Thomure
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
RV's company is very big.
Bigger company, bigger investment, bigger marketing, etc.
That is why WalMart is bigger than the store in the corner of our
neghborhood...
This also implies more (financial) risk and more managing problems for
the owner(s), ZAC is a lower size family company...
Bigger bussiness, more investors, later they will "buy" you out...
Another opinion, I can be wrong... Maybe I am always wrong :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- "David J. Dormer" wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David J. Dormer
> To: cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: New Completions - Kit Planes
>
>
> Mr. Laughlin:
>
> I, too, have made the same observation regarding what appears to be
> the greater popularity of the RV airplane over that of the Zenith
> line. It would appear to the outside observer that the RV line has
> something going for it that Zenith doesn't and I wish I knew what
> that "something" was. It certainly isn't cost and I say this because
> it is my understanding that building an RV is more expensive,
> overall, than building a Zenith. I don't think it is ease of
> construction for I have been told, by those who should know, that
> building an RV is more difficult. All this makes me wonder if the
> RV's popularity has to do with a belief that it is a better
> engineered airplane, with greater quality, when it comes to the parts
> and materials that make up the airplane? Or could it be that the RV
> line simply has more models available for sale than that of Zenith?
> All this is pure speculation on my part. However, it is very apparent
> that the RV is more popular as a kitplane given the numbers ou!
> t there and the "cottage industries" that have come into existence
> that provide after-market accessories for RV aircraft. In any case,
> it is to be sure that there must be some solid reasons for its
> popularity. I wish I knew what they are.
>
> D.J. Dormer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weatherstrip adhesive |
Thanks Fred for those details... I bought and used
PolyZap. Much easier to use than the slow setting
Weatherstrip adhesive.
Michel, oh yes.... C-GZGQ!
--- Fred or Sandy Hulen wrote:
> Hulen"
>
> > The other one is Poly-Zap. There was
> > a thread on this list several years ago about
> Poly-Zap which you may find
> > helpful.
> > Bill
>
> ++ I can offer some information on this as I have
> given clinics on "instant
> glues" and have used more of the stuff than you can
> ever imagine. One of my....
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <PAULROD36(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Hole Finder |
You're right, my Q/D hole finder is very similar to your flange finder, of
which I made two of different sizes from your picture. They worked great. I
filed a small notch (sharpie tip size) at measured distances to make drawing
the rivet line easier. If everybody shared their ingenious home made tool
ideas there'd be quite a library of homebrew solutions!! By the way, those
old-fashioned steel bed rails make pretty slick mini sheet metal brakes.
Probably everybody knows that, however.
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cheap Hole Finder
>
> Paul:
>
> I didn't quite follow your description, but is sounds similar to my flange
> finder pictured here:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/5_02_03_FlangeFinder.jpg
>
> Your idea of putting the rivet-part is a good one for finding a hole.
Mine
> is more like for finding the center of a flange before drilling.
>
> Thanks for the tip.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: <PAULROD36(at)msn.com>
> To: "zenith-list"
> Subject: Zenith-List: Cheap Hole Finder
> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:02:27 -0500
>
>
> I lucked into this, and thought I'd pass it on------ As a result of yet
> another malfunction of the linkage between my hat and my neck, I found I
had
> to lay an undrilled piece of sheet aluminum over a pre-drilled piece, and
> then figure out how to find a hole several inches from the edge. Being
too
> cheap to go buy a hole finder, as well as skeptical about finding one the
> size I needed, I tried this and it worked: I took two straight, narrow
> pieces of aluminum, lined them up one on top of the other, and securely
> riveted one end. Then, I drilled a hole (#30 in this case) through both
> pieces at the other end. I then removed the business end of an A-4 rivet
> from the stem, stuck it through the bottom piece, and laid a piece of
> masking tape on to hold it in place. Sliding the lower piece under the
> undrilled sheet, I wiggled it around until it fell into the hole, and
there
> I was looking at the spot to drill. I imagine others have figured out
> this quick and dirty solution, b!
> ut I thought I'd pass it on anyway.
> It anybody has figure out other work aids, I'd like to hear about
them
> (Probably we ALL would.)
>
> SECOND SUBJECT--- Has anybody figured out what headlight components would
> make good landing lights? I'm looking to use small halogens from my local
> junkyard.
>
> Paul Rodriguez
> 601 XL-Corvair still working on the wings.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
| From: | Ray Montagne <ac6qj(at)earthlink.net> |
On 7/16/03 6:35 PM, "Eric Tauch" wrote:
>
> I am not so sure that Vans has sold many more RVs than Zenith has sold
> Zodiacs...I think the sales figures are
> in the "same ballpark".
Vans has sold over 7000 kits.
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CBRxxDRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
In a message dated 7/17/03 12:32:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ac6qj(at)earthlink.net writes:
> Vans has sold over 7000 kits.
>
Before we start counting kits remember the numbers are based on
plans and or tail kits not complete kits. That goes for both ZAC and
Vans. The companys count each serial number as a sale. I am
sure there are lots of tail kits for ZAC and VANS sitting in garages.
Sal Capra
Lakeland, FL
My Home Page
http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Montagne <ac6qj(at)earthlink.net> |
On 7/16/03 10:51 PM, "Norman Turner"
wrote:
>
>
> Hi all on the list, Hey girls and guys lets keep the ZENITH LIST for all of us
> who are flying or building ZENITH aircraft .
I am a Zenith builder and I believe everyone in this discussion is too!
Discussion of the relative merits of any aircraft usually yields ideas
relevant or at least related to our own projects. To limit the scope of our
discussion is a stifling idea. Innovation springs from taking good ideas
and evolving them into better ideas. I welcome the open discussion. IMHO,
it is a far better situation to filter those things that are not of value to
us at our own screens then to muzzle the list members.
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Barth <davids601xl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weatherstrip adhesive |
Michel. I see you have got your call letters. I see
you will always end with Quebec. How nice for
you....living there and all. Congrats. I sense you
will be flying soon.
David
--- Michel Therrien wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Fred for those details... I bought and used
> PolyZap. Much easier to use than the slow setting
> Weatherstrip adhesive.
>
> Michel, oh yes.... C-GZGQ!
>
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder
Currently making parts.
Stab, elevator and Rudder waiting for skins. Flaps and ailerons ready for inspection.
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Some updates... |
>
>I also installed the labels for the switches and
>placards on my inst. panel. I used the technique
>described on the RV Journal and I'm very satisfied
>with the result. This is shown on my instruments
>panel finishing page.
Hi Michel,
What software did you use to make the labels? I've tried Word, since it
knows the label numbers, but I can't seem to position the lettering like
I'd like to.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Some updates... |
I used Excel, but I did not use mailing labels. The
05665 sheet are full sheet stickers.
--- Gary Liming wrote:
>
> Hi Michel,
>
> What software did you use to make the labels? I've
> tried Word, since it
> knows the label numbers, but I can't seem to
> position the lettering like
> I'd like to.
>
> Gary
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cortec Primer |
List . . . I would be interested once the 373 vs. 374 issue is resolved. The
correspondence I had with the company indicated the 373 should be topcoated
with 386 aluminum coating, but I'm not sure what aluminum coating is. I'm
not too interested in a two coat installation.
If this stuff is as good as it appears, I should think Aircraft Spruce
should be made aware of it so they can repackage it into quart cans. The
zinc chromate (qt. size) I bought from them last year had the appearance of
repackaging (no company label etc.). Cortec makes it in green accornding to
their website, and I think this is much more preferable than the clear both
for seeing where the primer has been applied and also for a traditional
appearance. If offered through Aircraft Spruce, I think the demand
throughout the kitbuilders world would be quite high. Hap Schoenberger 701
tail completed, working on right wing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall Thomure" <rthomure(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Cortec Primer
>
> I got in contact with Cortec today about their primers.
> They recommended the VpCI-374, instead of the 373.
> The 373 needs to be top coated, where the 374 is OK without a top coat.
>
> Unfortunately they only sell the stuff in 5 gal and 55 gal drums.
>
> Would there be enough interest for them to stock the stuff in quarts?
>
> Ill try to get some price estimates for 5 gals and their price for smaller
> lots.
>
> Your guess on demand would be appreciated.
>
> Randy Thomure
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Completions - Kit Planes |
I have too noticed that I don't see many completion photos of Zeniths in
any of the mags. I have meant to say something because since September
when I started both building and reading this list I know I've counted
at least 5 or six completions.
Come on guys. When you finish send the photos to the magazines. I know
I'll be sending one in days after completion. (When that day finaly
comes.) It's good for Zenith which means it's good for us.
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
Zenith 601XL http://www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
PP-SEL RH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Completions - Kit Planes |
Brad:
I have posted a photo of the chuckbird completion on my website at:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/OTHERSTUFF/Chuckbird.jpg
I'm all for talking about other aircraft projects. This just reinforces my
decision to build a Zenith aircraft. I did lots of research before starting
my 601XL and the more I read, the more I'm happy with my decision. I review
RV builders sites and other aircraft builder sites often to get ideas and
tips on building parts. Being a plans builder, this type of research is a
really helpful.
Of course if you were not a builder (like someone who posted a reply to this
message yesterday), but just a flyer then you wouldn't be interested in most
of the building discussions we have on this site anyway.
May all of your rivet lines be straight.
Enjoy,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Brad Johnston" <bradley.johnston(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Completions - Kit Planes
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:49:57 -0400
Hey cool! Which issue had the Chuckbird in it?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: New Completions - Kit Planes
>
> Fellow Zenith Listers:
>
> I have a subscription to "KitPlanes" magazine. Every month I get my new
> copy and skim through once quickly and find myself near the end usually
> around page 71. This is where KitPlanes shows photographs and a
paragraph
> or two of Completions. I see Vans RV-9s, KR2s, RV-6s, RVs, and more
> RVs and even a Texas Chuckbird for goodness sake. Why dont we see any
> completed Zenith aircraft in this magazine? OK, Im only 6 months new to
> this, so maybe there were some before my time, but it is time for some
new
> completions to be published.
>
> I know some of you are nearing completion and several of you have just
> finished and are flying. Send your photos to KitPlanes and get our name
out
> there! Maybe some of you already have and I patiently wait each month to
> see a Zenith aircraft on Page 71 or 72 of Kitplanes Magazine!
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rv's vs 601's, comparison to automobiles |
| From: | charles.long(at)gm.com |
07/17/2003 10:41:35 AM
. . . My opinion, comparing the two is similar to comparing a
Volkswagen to a Ford Mustang.
I would like to take exception to this statement. In my opinion,
both aircraft are sports cars in a sense. From a climb and handling
standpoint, they're both superb, a hoot to fly; far better than most
certified aircraft (I've flown both designs as well as many other
certificed aircraft). Remember, the HP - Weight ratio on a lightly built /
100 hp 601 is not that much less than a corvette. A Volkswagen doesn't
even come close performance wise. Not trying to minimize RV's other strong
points. From a top speed standpoint, the RV leaves the 601 in the dust and
it's also aerobatic. All depends what kind of flying you do. If you like
to drive the winding roads with the top down, a top end of a 130 mph takes
nothing away from the experience. Handling is what counts. If you
honestly do a lot of cross crounty (most of us hate to admit we don't), the
extra 50 kts is nice to have. But there again, if I'm trying to go
somewhere and I'm in a hurry, I like to file IFR. In talking to the RV
guys, they don't feel their airplanes are all that good an IFR platform
(like the 601, too light on the controls). My pick for a useful CC plane
would be a Mooney 201 or Cessna 210, even though they both drive more like
trucks than sportscars!
Hope I haven't touched any nerves out there, just trying to provide
another perspective on why we fly airplanes.
Chuck Long, CFI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
>> the fact that I won't recuperate my investment should I sell the
plane is quite disturbing to me.
I've always gotten a kick out of the thinking that Aircraft are
investments. No one assumes a car is an investment. It is true the some
folks make money on their planes, but no one is really making money once
you put time, tools, etc. into the equation. The fact that there is a
substainal resale value for a homebuilt aircraft is actually pretty
amazing.
I also think the reasons the RVs tend to sell for more than the base
cost is because there isn't any current inexpensive ceritifed birds that
have similar performance and cost numbers. So a non-builder can pick up
a RV aircraft that is much faster than most of the SPAM cans out there
for the same or a lot less than a typical SPAM can. With the Zodiac
being relatively slow and using engines that are typically less popular
it's harder for the buyer to justify not just buying a used C152 or
whatever with similar performance figures and getting a certificated
engine as well.
Don Honabach
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Frank,
>> I think part of what you are seeing is the natural variation in how
long it takes to build planes in general, i.e there are a number of
folks who have spent 4 years building a zodie.
I'm going on year 6 and still have at least another 6 to 12 months to
go. Sometimes life just gets in the way :)
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
List,
Have any HD or HDS builders looked into using an XL type aluminum spring gear?
I am not a big proponent of modifying from original designs, but it seems
like a considerably cleaner and easier installation. Any idea about the weight
difference between the two? Ground handling characteristics? Mounting location
and airframe modifications?
I have read about some of the difficulties of the "bungee box" installation
on some of your websites, and wondered how difficult it would be.
-Just thinking aloud.
Brandon Tucker
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
List,
Have any HD or HDS builders looked into using an XL type aluminum spring gear?
I am not a big proponent of modifying from original designs, but it seems
like a considerably cleaner and easier installation. Any idea about the weight
difference between the two? Ground handling characteristics? Mounting location
and airframe modifications?
I have read about some of the difficulties of the "bungee box" installation
on some of your websites, and wondered how difficult it would be.
-Just thinking aloud.
Brandon Tucker
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com> |
>In fact considering that a good used 152 can be had for less than $20k, Vs
>$30+ for the 601 and it gets real hard.
>Mind you, with 100Hp the 152/172 owners think we have rocket ships when
they
>watch us take off!
You can't even compare a CH601HDS or a CH601XL to a clunky old Cessna.
Faster climb, cruise, better payload, and half the fuel load, not to mention
more comfort. That's why I'm selling shares in the CH601XL, Alarus CH2000,
and CH640 at my flight school, but not in a Cessna.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com> |
>Faster cruise?...Are you sure about that?
>Its been a while since I flew a 152 but I thought it did a little better
>than the 110mph of the HDS (well of MY HDS anyway).
I've got hundreds of hours in 152's. They normally only cruise at 90 kts,
or 105 mph. So even if your HDS is a bit slower than mine was (120-130 mph)
it will still beat the 152.
>Even if it is faster, the point is its is similar (on paper at least) at
>less money and the 152 does not APPEAR to lose value as fast.
That's only because all 152's are old and have already depreciated away most
of their value. A later model 152 can run you over $30k, and it is still 20
years old.
>At 2/3rds the price (and zero building time) it makes the 601 a tough
>financial choice to many folks.
It depends on how old you go on the 152. In order to get something below
$20k, you are most likely looking at a 150, or a 152 with nasty radios
and/or high time engine. I would never recommend anyone to build an
airplane soley to save money. You can't buy a new 152, but you can buy a
new factory built CH601XL if you don't have the time or desire to build.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes
>
> Frank,
>
> >> I think part of what you are seeing is the natural variation in how
> long it takes to build planes in general, i.e there are a number of
> folks who have spent 4 years building a zodie.
>
> I'm going on year 6 and still have at least another 6 to 12 months to
> go. Sometimes life just gets in the way :)
>
> Don
>
Frank and Don,
Life should get in the way, just as moving too fast on a project
just takes the joy out of it. The 601 is an ideal aircraft construction
for either kit or scratch builder. I know of some RV builders
having to make more than one to be able to keep the last one without
a mortgage. That philosophy plays into a rush to get there and they
soon tire of the intense effort. I'm going into 4th year of 601
construction
and still look forward to each process and progress.
Larry McFarland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | The movement of radiator and coolant |
List,
We've discussed aspects of the radiators being
placed back where perhaps they should be, but has
anyone slowed down the coolant to get a reading
on the engine temps after actually doing it?
The thermostat has some part to play in this, but
is there any data that suggests slower coolant is
more effective at the Cyl Head Temps?
Larry McFarland - Stratus Subaru - 601 hds
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HDS spring gear |
| From: | wizard-24(at)juno.com |
> Have any HD or HDS builders looked into using an XL type
> aluminum spring gear?
> Any idea about the weight difference between the two?
The only thing I can speak to is the weight issue, being that I'm
building an XL. And I'll tell you - I was surprised at how much that
spring gear weighs! It's a monster. I suppose it has to be in order to be
structurally sound -- but lifting that thing in place -- it almost seems
to weight as much as the empty fuselage itself. I could be wrong -- but
it's heavy!
Mike Fortunato
601XL
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | hans blohm <hansblohm(at)controlelectronics.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Importing a Kit to Australia, cost,tax,gst,customs. |
I imported a 601XL complete kit to Sydney 18 months ago. I used a transport
company I found in Airsport (CH Freight). You wont have to pay import
duty or bother with quarantine, but there are plenty of other expenses.
After several months waiting for ZAC to complete the kit the shipment took 3
weeks to Sydney. Then another 7 days through customs before they would let me
have it. You will probably pay several thousand for transport and insurance.
When it gets here the government will want 10% of whatever you paid for the
kit for GST. You can't get aroud this as customs won't clear it until you do.
Then you will have to hire a truck to transport the crate from customs to you.
If you buy the complete kit, it will arrive in a very large crate (8' x 4' x
4') weighing about 900lbs. You will need a large truck and possibly a crane
to unload it at your place. In Sydney these trucks are hard to hire, they
don't like picking up from customs because they have to wait around all day,
and they are expensive.
In my case the truck wouldn't fit down the driveway so I had the driver leave
the crate on the footpath. It took several hours to unpack and carry
everything into the workshop.
It's an expensive exercise, but once it arrives you soon forget about the
money.
Halfway there.
--
Hans Blohm
Control Electronics
79 Alan Road
Berowra Heights NSW 2082
Phone: 02 9456 0736
Email: hansblohm(at)controlelectronics.com.au
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:53 am, abc abc wrote:
>
> Has anyone had experience importing a kit to Australia?.
> I am thinking about the handling charges ,customs,import duty, sales tax,
> storage, quarantine, gst, shipping time. Did you have a broker?, Cost? and
> Problems?.
> Any sites that may be useful?.
> Many thanks
> Tony
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Jones" <fjones(at)sympatico.ca> |
FYI,
I used Visio to do my panel labels with these stickers and was very
happy. Visio give you a CAD like capability to layout the lables so one
sticker can have many labels. This is particularly good when you have a
bank of switches close together. You can see what I mean in this picture
of my panel:
http://www.iprules.com/plane/insideview.jpg
______________________
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ
______________________
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Therrien
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Some updates...
I used Excel, but I did not use mailing labels. The
05665 sheet are full sheet stickers.
--- Gary Liming wrote:
>
> Hi Michel,
>
> What software did you use to make the labels? I've
> tried Word, since it
> knows the label numbers, but I can't seem to
> position the lettering like
> I'd like to.
>
> Gary
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Yes they are,
I was at arlington this last W/E and picked up a Cessna spring gear...Almost
got a hernia. Now this company was offering titanium gears which are about
2/3rds the weight.
Still heavy though. I'm doubtful the spring gear saves weight over the old
bungee cord design. I think they are used more for simplicity and reduced
factory labour time.
I can also tell you the old style works very well. I landed on a runway
consisting of ploughruts and BIG rocks. At almost gross weight the little
ZAC just skipped right over them.
I have noticed some wear on the gearbox lowers though, probably just my
nylon spacer worn out.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: wizard-24(at)juno.com [mailto:wizard-24(at)juno.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HDS spring gear
> Have any HD or HDS builders looked into using an XL type
> aluminum spring gear?
> Any idea about the weight difference between the two?
The only thing I can speak to is the weight issue, being that I'm building
an XL. And I'll tell you - I was surprised at how much that spring gear
weighs! It's a monster. I suppose it has to be in order to be structurally
sound -- but lifting that thing in place -- it almost seems to weight as
much as the empty fuselage itself. I could be wrong -- but it's heavy!
Mike Fortunato
601XL
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web
up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "No 6" <drshr(at)hotmail.com> |
The RV bunch are jealous of the Zodiac which is a better plane in many ways
and a fraction the cost.
Keep them OUT!
----Original Message Follows----
From: Norman Turner <normsflighttraining(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Kit Planes
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:21:24 +0930
Hi all on the list, Hey girls and guys lets keep the ZENITH LIST for all of
us who are flying or building ZENITH aircraft . If the RV's builders or /
and flyers wish to comment on RV's then do it on your web site not on the
ZENITH site. It is in my personal opinion that this site is for the builders
and flyers of ZENITHS benefit that we all communicate on this site to better
our knowledge and ensure that others who follow in our footsteps learn by
our experiences and not try to re-invent the wheel, Just my opinion! I
personally have met many new friends from this site and have learned so much
the my little brain is working overtime continually. At the first chance I
get, this bucket of electrons is turned on so I can read the latest news on
zenith tips and how to doo's and not to doo's . All I can say is I'm a
ZODIAC 601 HDS flyer (not builder) and I am very proud of it,I have also
been the test person for a kit built 701 built in W.A. Australia then flew
it across the dese!
st to Ali
to the owner, it is a job I do with pride and faith in Zenith aircraft.
This site is just great for information on any subject on ZENITH aircraft ,
wether it is to do with building or mods to your pet zenith. My thoughts
,and I might add the ZAC factory are always happy to answer any questions
you may have no matter how silly you may think they are ( boy!!! have I
asked some stupid questions in the past) and received very constructive
answers( with no malice), Cheers to all from a very happy zodiac 601 hds
rotax 912/ 232hrs flyer @ 16 lph fuel consumption and 90kts thanks ZAC. Norm
Turner CFI Top End Ultralight Club Northern Territory Australia. Do not
archive.
Surf the net and talk on the phone with Xtra Jetstream @
http://www.xtra.co.nz/products/0,,5803,00.html !
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Some updates... |
Cowling looks great Michel Kinda the Rollie - Pollie - Ollie - Zodie
I Love it.
Ever see the cartoon "JJ the jet plane". Paint a couple of eyebrows on it and
you will have one of the characters. My wife loved it!
Jack Russell
Clovis CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Drilling wing skins - 601 XL |
Fellow listers,
I'm to the point of drilling my wing skins.... finally! I have clamped the
top rear skin flush with the rear channel. I have drilled and clecoed the
pilot holes through the rear channel. The manual says to work from rear to
front.
Question: Do I A. Work span wise e.g. drill RR1 - hole 1; RR2 - hole 1; RR3
- hole 1; etc or B: Drill all of RR1 then RR2, RR3, RR4, etc.
In the manual, 6-W-8 pg 7 (Revision 3 - 1/22/03) they tell you to work span
wise on the bottom rear skin. Just wondering if I should do the same with
the top rear skin.
Thanks for any advice.
Mark Stauffer
601 XL N996XL (Reserved)
Tail completed, aileron and flaps completed.
Working on the hard wing!! ;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
Frank
I take it your guides didn't fall out?
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Pitcher <rick.pitcher(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Some updates... |
I'm right behind you on the panel Michel. Should be printing my decals
in the next week or two. Thanks for the tip :
)
http://www.lightflyers.com/wires.jpg
Rick P.
Michel Therrien wrote:
>
> I used Excel, but I did not use mailing labels. The
> 05665 sheet are full sheet stickers.
>
> --- Gary Liming wrote:
>
>>Hi Michel,
>>
>>What software did you use to make the labels? I've
>>tried Word, since it
>>knows the label numbers, but I can't seem to
>>position the lettering like
>>I'd like to.
>>
>>Gary
>>
>>
>
>
> =====
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV popularity... |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
..
> Lets face it even the slowest RV9 with a 118HP engine is about 50mph faster
> than any zodiac (at least excluding the XL).
I suspect the speed is a big factor that makes people lean towards the RV.
I also suspect that many recreational pilots buy more airplane than they can
comfortably handle.
A friend and professional pilot at the local airport keeps his hand into
instructing and checking out people on various aircraft, and last summer he
checked out two guys who'd finished their RVs. One took a few hours but
eventually was considered safe to let loose (he had been flying a C-170
tailwheeler while building so was still pretty current). The other fellow
hadn't been flying, was getting on in years (hey - I have gray hair too and
I'm discovering how the carbon-based computer between my ears slows down
when least desired! ;-). After several hours of checking, my colleague
still didn't consider him competent to send solo. Any lapse of attention
during a circuit would see the aircraft rapidly loosing altitude and
building speed in the beginnings of a spiral -- it's a very clean aircraft
aerodynamically! I haven't heard the latested update on this one yet...
My point is simply this - most recreational pilots only fly a few hours a
year - life is busy - we never get as much flying time as we dream we're
going to. AND WE AIN'T GETTIN' ANY YOUNGER! I know way too many who scare
themselves (and bystanders !) when the take their annual flight on aircraft
that are just too much for them.
The beauty of the 601 and 701, is that by keeping it simple, there is still
a wonderful tradeoff of performace (speed or STOL) versus ease of handling.
I suspect that the average Zenair builder will get a lot more fun and fewer
frights from his finished aircraft. Just my suspicion!
NOTE: this is IN NO WAY MEANT TO SLAM all the highly-qualified,
professionally-oriented recreational pilots on this list!!! ;-).
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Alberti" <daberti(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Drilling wing skins - 601 XL |
I worked from the center out to minimize the oil caning or puckering.
Dave
Airworthiness Certification issued on 7/14/03.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark
Stauffer
Subject: Zenith-List: Drilling wing skins - 601 XL
Fellow listers,
I'm to the point of drilling my wing skins.... finally! I have clamped the
top rear skin flush with the rear channel. I have drilled and clecoed the
pilot holes through the rear channel. The manual says to work from rear to
front.
Question: Do I A. Work span wise e.g. drill RR1 - hole 1; RR2 - hole 1; RR3
- hole 1; etc or B: Drill all of RR1 then RR2, RR3, RR4, etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Perry Morrison" <perrymorrison(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV popularity... |
Grant,
I think some self-examination is useful in any major life "commitment" whether
it's career, house or the aircraft you're going to spend several years building.
Too much aviation is dream driven. Dreams are great unless reality turns them
into nightmares. Unfortunately, most of us don't confront our own realities enough
because it can be a bit of a disappointment. But it's still essential nonetheless.
A lot of the RV crowd see themselves doing long trips all the time with an aviation
mad spouse or SO in the right seat while they spend their well financed retirement
flitting
from one exotic location to the next.
Quite often the build time stretches to eternity, the spouse never catches the
flying fever
needed for the right hand seat, money gets tight as other demands beckon. Even
when it's built, it's hard to find the time for long trips. Money issues make pressing
the starter button a painful experience and a quick calculation of the opportunity
cost of having THAT much capital tied up in an RV that only YOU fly on the occasional
weekend makes you blanche.
Its worse if the plane you sacrificed so much for turns out to be one that you
can't fly or just never fly because it doesn't fit in with the rest of your life
either
timewise or moneywise or both.
Of course, if you have money by the truckload, then none of this matters a toss.
But
if you don't, then it's a genuine tragedy.
So, yes I agree that people can buy "too much airplane", but this is just one aspect
of poor self examination.
At the end of the day, flying a plane that's 50% of your dream is a helluva lot
better than
having nothing but 100% of the same old dream or even worse, a dream that turned
into
a nightmare all by itself.
Best
Perry Morrison
Grant Corriveau wrote:
> From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
..
> Lets face it even the slowest RV9 with a 118HP engine is about 50mph faster
> than any zodiac (at least excluding the XL).
I suspect the speed is a big factor that makes people lean towards the RV.
I also suspect that many recreational pilots buy more airplane than they can
comfortably handle.
A friend and professional pilot at the local airport keeps his hand into
instructing and checking out people on various aircraft, and last summer he
checked out two guys who'd finished their RVs. One took a few hours but
eventually was considered safe to let loose (he had been flying a C-170
tailwheeler while building so was still pretty current). The other fellow
hadn't been flying, was getting on in years (hey - I have gray hair too and
I'm discovering how the carbon-based computer between my ears slows down
when least desired! ;-). After several hours of checking, my colleague
still didn't consider him competent to send solo. Any lapse of attention
during a circuit would see the aircraft rapidly loosing altitude and
building speed in the beginnings of a spiral -- it's a very clean aircraft
aerodynamically! I haven't heard the latested update on this one yet...
My point is simply this - most recreational pilots only fly a few hours a
year - life is busy - we never get as much flying time as we dream we're
going to. AND WE AIN'T GETTIN' ANY YOUNGER! I know way too many who scare
themselves (and bystanders !) when the take their annual flight on aircraft
that are just too much for them.
The beauty of the 601 and 701, is that by keeping it simple, there is still
a wonderful tradeoff of performace (speed or STOL) versus ease of handling.
I suspect that the average Zenair builder will get a lot more fun and fewer
frights from his finished aircraft. Just my suspicion!
NOTE: this is IN NO WAY MEANT TO SLAM all the highly-qualified,
professionally-oriented recreational pilots on this list!!! ;-).
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
__________________________
Dr. Perry Morrison
Morrison Associates Pty Ltd
+61 08 89 88 4617
0408892638
perrymorrison(at)yahoo.com
__________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:New Completions - Kit Planes |
| From: | Brenton Battles <brentbattles(at)charter.net> |
You don't have to be a Kitplanes subscriber to have your airplane
appear in the completions pages. I had mine published in late 2000 as
I recall and all they wanted was a brief text entry and either 2 or 3
different non-returnable photographs among which they would select the
one for publication. My motivation for submitting - beyond Nicholas's
suggestion to do so - was based largely on getting the word out about
Zodiacs and spreading my enthusiasm.
Regards,
Brent Battles N16BZ 601HD Rotax 912
By the way, I have a new website with a domain name supplied by my
daughter:
http://www.flappingpappy.com/zodiac/hangar.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Nichelson <bn2(at)bright.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Zodiac vs. RV |
Zodiac List,
I don't contribute much to the list anymore, but do follow the discussions
and jump in when I think I have something to add - FWIW (for what its
worth). I have a good friend who flies a beautiful RV4. I helped him some
with his construction before and during the four years I spend building my
601, and he helped support me in my building. He had almost 12 years total
building time for the RV4, but has younger children and started back when
the RV kits were far from quick build. Last Sunday, we flew across our
state (Ohio) for breakfast, believing that any reason to fly is a good
reason. The trip was 117.3nm each way. I left 15 minutes before he did and
he got there about 5 minutes ahead of me. My flight time was .9 hours going
and .8 hours on the return trip. He can pass me like I am standing still,
but it does not bother me at all. I love my little airplane and I love his
too. We flew to Oshkosh together last year - well sort of. The total trip
took him about an hour less than me. We met up at fuel stops, and actually
flew in formation from Fond Du Lac to Oshkosh.
At the breakfast last week, we met up with some friends. They looked at my
friends RV, but spent most of the time looking over my 601HDS. My point is
this - unless you fly long cross country trips all the time, the speed
difference means very little. I did not mind at all the trip last Sunday
taking almost an hour. It was a beautiful morning and I loved every minute
of it. Why would I want to get there and faster? I don't. There are times I
would love to have an RV7 sitting in my hanger, something that would cruise
at over 200 mph. But I don't NEED that speed. I used to fly a 250 Comanche
- cruised at 180 mph. A trip across the state to see my Mother takes me
15-20 minutes longer in my 601HDS than it did in the Comanche. In the grand
scheme of things, the time difference is insignificant. And I burn way less
fuel - way less than half.
So to each his own. Both RV's and Zodiacs are great airplanes. But it sure
is fun to have people flock to look at my airplane when I go somewhere. It
gets lots of attention and I am proud to say "Yes, I built it myself".
Bill Nichelson
Bellefontaine, Ohio USA
Zodiac 601HDS - Casual Passion
S/N 6-3556 - N132BN
Jabiru 3300 / Prince P-Tip Prop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Ha..Yeah I made it back OK. Its running beautifully!
I'm off to Prospect fly in this W/e, about 150miles up in the
mountains...Should take an hour and a half...assuming the valve guides don't
fall out.
If you don't see me on the list next week...call somebody!...:)
I re-torqued the head bolts which had not moved, had to reset a couple of
valve clearances. I belive you said 10 and 12 thou? That's what they are set
to.
Say, there is a little wear on my distributor shaft...just a couple of thou
but I did open my reluctor gap to max just in case.
I got a feeling I'm gonna need your new distributor sometime soon. How is
development on that coming?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Ramperf(at)aol.com [mailto:Ramperf(at)aol.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Kit Planes
Frank
I take it your guides didn't fall out?
Ron
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Aaron" <agustafson(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HDS spring gear |
Myself as well as one other builder I know of have installed Grove Aircraft
spring gear. The other one is flying, and having flown both the plans gear
and the Grove, he says to me "You are going to love your spring gear". It
weighs 28#. I think much less than the stock one. It is 2024T6 and
guaranteed for life! $900
Aaron
601HDTD Plans
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Tucker" <btucke73(at)yahoo.com>
> Have any HD or HDS builders looked into using an XL type aluminum
spring gear? I am not a big proponent of modifying from original designs,
but it seems like a considerably cleaner and easier installation. Any idea
about the weight difference between the two? Ground handling
characteristics? Mounting location and airframe modifications?
>
> I have read about some of the difficulties of the "bungee box"
installation on some of your websites, and wondered how difficult it would
be.
>
> -Just thinking aloud.
>
> Brandon Tucker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | RV popularity... |
I think this was a very well thought out point of view. When I think back to
my purchase decision I had not started on my private ticket when I bought
the kit.
At 70 hours I pranged a C152, me and my passenger escaped by the skin of our
teeth. I remember being thankful that it was the Cessna I crashed 'cos it
took a really hard slam into the ground and I'm still amazed the nose gear
didn't break off! They are really strong (and heavy).
If it had happened in a 601 or an RV I don't it would have been such a
fortunate outcome.
Of course if the accident happened in the RV the speed may well have been
much higher.
The nice thing about the ZAC (now I am a MUCH better pilot for my near
miss...another 400 hours helps too!) is I hardly ever think about flying
it...I just get in and fly.
Airspeed in the pattern, landing lights and fuel, that's about it.
Frank
601 HDS Stratus with RAM heads where the valve guides stay put!
-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Corriveau [mailto:grantc(at)ca.inter.net]
Subject: Zenith-List: RV popularity...
> From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
..
> Lets face it even the slowest RV9 with a 118HP engine is about 50mph
> faster than any zodiac (at least excluding the XL).
I suspect the speed is a big factor that makes people lean towards the RV. I
also suspect that many recreational pilots buy more airplane than they can
comfortably handle.
A friend and professional pilot at the local airport keeps his hand into
instructing and checking out people on various aircraft, and last summer he
checked out two guys who'd finished their RVs. One took a few hours but
eventually was considered safe to let loose (he had been flying a C-170
tailwheeler while building so was still pretty current). The other fellow
hadn't been flying, was getting on in years (hey - I have gray hair too and
I'm discovering how the carbon-based computer between my ears slows down
when least desired! ;-). After several hours of checking, my colleague
still didn't consider him competent to send solo. Any lapse of attention
during a circuit would see the aircraft rapidly loosing altitude and
building speed in the beginnings of a spiral -- it's a very clean aircraft
aerodynamically! I haven't heard the latested update on this one yet...
My point is simply this - most recreational pilots only fly a few hours a
year - life is busy - we never get as much flying time as we dream we're
going to. AND WE AIN'T GETTIN' ANY YOUNGER! I know way too many who scare
themselves (and bystanders !) when the take their annual flight on aircraft
that are just too much for them.
The beauty of the 601 and 701, is that by keeping it simple, there is still
a wonderful tradeoff of performace (speed or STOL) versus ease of handling.
I suspect that the average Zenair builder will get a lot more fun and fewer
frights from his finished aircraft. Just my suspicion!
NOTE: this is IN NO WAY MEANT TO SLAM all the highly-qualified,
professionally-oriented recreational pilots on this list!!! ;-).
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Karnes" <jpkarnes(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV popularity... |
One reason that I picked the 601 HDS is that I am a low time pilot and felt
that the RV planes might be more than I can handle at this point in my
flying career. I find the 601 a very docile, easily forgiving, yet fun
ride. The Y stick is very intuitive and maneuvering the plane is a breeze.
Transitioning from C152's was a snap once you adjust to the view outside the
cockpit at flare.
John Karnes
Port Orchard, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Royer, Michel" <RoyerM(at)tc.gc.ca> |
| Subject: | HDS 601 On Flight Sim... |
As of curiosity, as I'm still building and not flown the real thing yet.
Has anyone of you tried the Trike 601 HDS with Flight Sim 2002 and
the downloadable 601 available on the Zenith Web site????????\\
How far from reality for the ones that has tried it??????
Thx
> Michel Royer
>
________________________________________________________________________________
July 05, 2003 - July 19, 2003
Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-dn