Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-hc

August 23, 2007 - September 06, 2007



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Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: weight & balance with one scale?
Gig, i am in the process of getting ready for weight and bal as well. when you do the three scals, do you take the average of the three? hows that work? I have the work sheets with the arms but the weight things i am needing of some pip slapping to understand. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> >Sent: Aug 23, 2007 2:31 PM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: weight & balance with one scale? > > >Ok her's the plan. Go to Wal-Mart or Home Depot and get 3 of the best analog scales you can find. > >Then go do the weight and balance and then return the scales. Here's the clincher. Tell them they didn't go high enough for your wife to use. > >I'll bet they hand you your money back and not say a word. > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130552#130552 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JG" <vgstol(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: 701 VG's - Put this puppy to rest
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Yes, you certainly can make your own VGs. One set of instructions on how to make them is at http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly19.html . (He's another dedicated experimenter when you read the rest of his website.) In the beginning I made these and they worked OK, just look a bit crude and don't fit the contour of the wing skin very well. For the 701 wing, mount them with the front tips 140mm in front of the rivet line on the top of the spar, about 100-150mm apart. Tailwinds always, JG ----- Original Message ----- From: Matt Ronics To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:38 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 VG's - Put this puppy to rest As a side point, I think it petty that these people should charge money for such simple things as VGs. Why not just share the idea and give instructions for other builders (ie in the spirit of the movement). Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130308#130308 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: "John Marzulli" <john.marzulli(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages
We all get packages delivered to us full of clecos, Homebuilt Help DVDs or other parts, and normally nothing goes wrong. This week UPS left a package on my doorstep without taking a signature. It turns out that this step is discretionary to the driver. As a result the package was stolen. Anyway, I was able to recover my package with the help of the Police. It's a long story, and I have it recounted here: http://701builder.livejournal.com/ In other news my fuselage kit is being delivered tomorrow. Let's see them try to steal that! Happy building! -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -Airplane The Movie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Riedlinger" <paulried(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages
Date: Aug 23, 2007
I just love the "discretion" clause. I had a very expensive network storage device delivered to my house yesterday and found it behind the planters on the front porch. It is always fun to find a two terabyte device in your ferns! Someone was home all day so I guess the UPS driver just decided to drop it and run. The funny thing was it had stickers all over it saying "signature required". Paul Riedlinger paulried(at)rogers.com From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Marzulli Sent: August-23-07 7:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages We all get packages delivered to us full of clecos, Homebuilt Help DVDs or other parts, and normally nothing goes wrong. This week UPS left a package on my doorstep without taking a signature. It turns out that this step is discretionary to the driver. As a result the package was stolen. Anyway, I was able to recover my package with the help of the Police. It's a long story, and I have it recounted here: http://701builder.livejournal.com/ In other news my fuselage kit is being delivered tomorrow. Let's see them try to steal that! Happy building! -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -Airplane The Movie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: weight & balance with one scale?
1. Add the three weights to get the total empty weight. 2. Multiply each individual weight by its distance behind the datum. 4. Add the three products. 5. Divide this sum by the empty weight to get the distance behind the datum of the CG. Juan Vega wrote: > > Gig, > i am in the process of getting ready for weight and bal as well. when you do the three scals, do you take the average of the three? hows that work? I have the work sheets with the arms but the weight things i am needing of some pip slapping to understand. > > Juan > > -----Original Message----- >> From: Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> >> Sent: Aug 23, 2007 2:31 PM >> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: weight & balance with one scale? >> >> >> Ok her's the plan. Go to Wal-Mart or Home Depot and get 3 of the best analog scales you can find. >> >> Then go do the weight and balance and then return the scales. Here's the clincher. Tell them they didn't go high enough for your wife to use. >> >> I'll bet they hand you your money back and not say a word. >> >> -------- >> W.R. "Gig" Giacona >> 601XL Under Construction >> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Out-of-spec 601XL/Jabiru 3300 motor mount
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Would you be so kind as to share the measurements Jabiru sent you? I have an engine mount that I received from them in May but who knows when it was made...... Thanks! Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130631#130631 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: Out-of-spec 601XL/Jabiru 3300 motor mount
Date: Aug 23, 2007
I only have the measurements I made and the "top tubes 10 mm too long" comment from Jabiru USA. Below are my measurements. Since the tubes are cut on a diagonal these measurements are on the longest, outside edges of the tubes from the plates at the firewall to the disks at the rear of the engine mount "pins". Take these measurements as approximate as it was hard to make some of them with a steel tape with the mount and engine on the plane: top tube, pilot side: 445 mm top tube, copilot side: 465-470 mm bottom, pilot side: 380 mm bottom, copilot side: 400-405 mm What is actually critical is the angle of the engine (horizontal and vertical) to the firewall. So it is best to measure these directly and compare them to 6-JE-1 in the Zenith plans. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel System Design
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Craig, I have allowed for the pressure gage but hadn't thought about the flow. And yes it is a Corvair the WW way. I have been waiting for him to publish the 601 book but have gotten to the point I need to move forward. Got any pictures of the Andair Valve mounted? Thanks for the ideas. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130646#130646 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel System Design
Date: Aug 23, 2007
> Got any pictures of the Andair Valve mounted? Mine is still mounted in its box. But I've attached pictures of somebody else's installation. Unfortunately I've lost track of whose plane it is. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: 801 VOR
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Does anyone have a suggestion on a VOR antenna location for an 801. I just got a request to install one. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com 8/22/2007 6:51 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 801 VOR
From: "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Mark, Best antenna would be the towel rail type ( D&M N48-3 ) due to low twisting loads on the mount area. Best position on rear empenage sides - lower edge below the fwd horiz stab brackets. Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130668#130668 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: Charles McGloughlin <charlesmcg(at)citlink.net>
Subject: Choice of engine for the CH 601HDS
Having acquired a partially complete 601 HDS kit, which I intend to complete as an E-LSA, I would like to hear comments on the broad question below! How do the Subaru and Corvair engines stack up against Rotax & Jabiru when you take cost, installation, available technical support, weight and final performance into account? And are there any 601 builders reasonably close to Sacramento, CA? Sincerely -- Charles McGloughlin Email - charlesmcg(at)citlink.net 8654 Bluefield Way Phones - Cell (916)832-0654 Sacramento, CA 95823 Home (916)689-7701 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Choice of engine for the CH 601HDS
Date: Aug 24, 2007
If you want it to be an ELSA, I believe that you will need it flying by December of this year. However I may be wrong as I am a Canadian and not fully up on the U.S. LSA. IF it is true and to meet the ELSA category by December, you will have to order a Rotax or Jabiru in the next week in order to have a chance to make the deadline. IF you go auto conversion, typically add another year to your construction. Also a missed deadline. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles McGloughlin Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 12:17 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Choice of engine for the CH 601HDS Having acquired a partially complete 601 HDS kit, which I intend to complete as an E-LSA, I would like to hear comments on the broad question below! How do the Subaru and Corvair engines stack up against Rotax & Jabiru when you take cost, installation, available technical support, weight and final performance into account? And are there any 601 builders reasonably close to Sacramento, CA? Sincerely -- Charles McGloughlin Email - charlesmcg(at)citlink.net 8654 Bluefield Way Phones - Cell (916)832-0654 Sacramento, CA 95823 Home (916)689-7701 8/22/2007 6:51 PM 8/22/2007 6:51 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JG" <vgstol(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: VGs on 701
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Boy, the mention of VGs sure does stir up a storm........ That's really mystifying to me, because I'm just trying to share some really significant discoveries that we've found by experience.......... I've been in love with the CH701 for about 18 years, but intrigued by the possibility of removing the slats for most of that time, so always watching and studying for evidence in that direction. I certainly didn't start this as a manufacturer of VGs looking for a market for them on the 701. I was a doubting sceptic before I actually tried them - and you wouldn't think they'd do much on a wing like the 701, anyhow eh. I was just going to remove the slats, as the Columbians had done, expecting to get better cruise efficiency, and prepared to lose some STOL capability which had lots to spare. I expected maybe 10% improvement in fuel burn, but was amazed to find 23%! STOL performance was less of course, but still adequate for most all practical use. Then, being a curious experimenter, decided to try VGs, and was totally amazed that most all of the STOL capability came back! The more I tried VGs the more I liked the effect that they gave, but I didn't like the sharp points and the fit to the wing of the ones on the market. And so designed and tested the 'Feathers', and so it went from there....... I certainly didn't start manufacturing VGs to make a lot of money. Homebuilt aircraft is not a mass market and so many of those builders are complete sceptics, some are even from Missouri..... And only need one set of VGs for an aircraft, then never hear from that one again. If I wanted to make lots of cash flow I'd go for something like lawn mowing - get paid to do it all over again in a couple of weeks. Or for more excitement, get a mobile dog-washing franchise.... I'm semi-retired, and not inspired to make any big business of this, just enough to keep tinkering and experimenting with light STOL aircraft. There'll be more to come, stay tuned. Some of us are born experimenters and innovators, and are always interested in trying to make things go better. (I even felt the need to modify my Buck pocket knife....) Others just want to follow the straight and narrow, especially with aircraft - so let it be for them. Surely we can all share this forum without animosity, and encourage the diversity rather than trying to shoot it down...... It's almost as if it's considered heresy to even explore alternatives...... This homebuilt aircraft game attracts some really clever and capable minds, and I for one really enjoy sharing constructive ideas and experiences with them. I've already met many really interesting and innovative builders online, and it's just great to have this medium to hear from more of them all over the world. The nay-sayers always seem to shout the loudest, but I know of many builder/flyers out there with heaps of good experience, who speak seldom, and quietly when they do, but are really worth listening to..... It's heartening to note that the first to be attracted to, and try these changes, were very experienced flyers, who now love their 701s even more since they've cut their slats off - surely that says something worth paying attention to..... I pay most attention to real life experience and evidence, rather than theory or pre-conceived opinions. And I'm ready to change my opinions when I see new evidence. That 'big wind tunnel in the sky' is the real test. That's why I've flown 400 hrs in the last two years, always observing and testing these changes we've made. And I certainly don't fly like a Cessna - more like a hawk on a mouse! Always looking for some new challenging spot to practice STOL landings. Just got back from 38hrs of flying into outback Australia, actually using my STOL aircraft to land in very rough and remote places - how many of you really do land your STOL aircraft off-field.... Everything in that website is derived from such experience. Lastly, there seems to be some misconception of the results I've claimed for replacing slats with VGs: I'm not saying that VGs make for shorter landings than slats, just pretty close to equal STOL performance, with lots of improvement in climb, cruise and glide. The common experience that most flyers notice is an gentler transition from hold-off to touch-down, thus making slower landings easier for the average flyer. And I certainly don't encourage anyone to go near Vne, but it sure is good to be able to cruise at 80 kts while burning less fuel than used to at 75, and still have pretty much the same STOL performance. That's really significant for those of us who actually go cross-country in our aircraft...... I've written pretty much all I have to say in the www.stolspeed.com website, and written it as carefully and as completely as I can. I won't get into a shouting match here, as happens on so many forums. But if there are serious questions that I haven't covered in the website, I'll discuss them. Tailwinds always, JG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JG" <vgstol(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: VGs to Z.A.C.
Date: Aug 24, 2007
I've just sent a set of FeathersVGs to Zenith Aircraft Company for testing on their CH701. Also a copy of the following open letter: Zenith Aircraft Corporation Mexico, Missouri, USA Dear Sirs, As you will have heard, our experience here in Australia, of removing the slats from a CH701 and replacing them with VGs, demonstrates a considerable improvement in climb and cruise and glide performance, with little or no real loss in STOL capability. Hundreds of hours of intensive STOL flying on several aircraft has shown no down-side of the conversion. Multiple testimonials from other 701 owners in the USA and elsewhere have confirmed these results. It's heartening that many of those to try this mod are high-time pilots with considerable experience in different aircraft, and they now like their 701s better without the slats..... Now we hear that fellas in Brazil have also been flying without slats for years. There's no doubt that the improvement is real. Seems to me these discoveries involving VGs instead of slats should be seen not as a threat to the CH701, but an opportunity to broaden the range of an already excellent and popular aircraft. It doesn't need any major change in the aircraft construction to implement this alternative. I reckon customers should be offered the choice of slats or VGs...... At the time that Chris Heintz designed the CH701, VGs were not as well tested as today, and even so, no one would have predicted that they could actually replace the effect of leading edge slats so effectively on this wing. It was a real surprise, but now we know from experience they can be a real advantage. So why not take that information on board and exploit it??? I realize that those slats were the best innovation at that time, and a great marketing feature, but the facts are now clear that many of us, from experience, prefer the aircraft with VGs rather than with slats. So I'm sending you a set of 'Feathers' VGs, free of charge, for testing on your CH701. Another major improvement we have tested on the 701 is to extend the wings by 400mm (16") each side. This has dramatically improved the slow speed performance and considerably lowered the landing speed. Glide ratio at very low speed is much improved, making for easier, gentler, slower landings. Now we learn that those same fellas in Brazil have also been building longer wings for years, and already know the benefits.... See 'Long Wing' page for more details. Yet another improvement we have tested is to apply VGs to the leading edge of the elevator - not to the horizontal stabilizer, but to the elevator itself. This way the VGs are hidden at cruise in the slot between the horiz stab and the elevator, but are exposed in the very best position to catch the airflow when they are most needed at flare. This has sure helped to increase elevator authority at very slow touch-down speeds, making for much improved landing control. See 'Tail Feathers' page for more details. The owner of the 701 with all these modifications is absolutely thrilled with the improvements - no way would he go back to the original configuration! The two other 701 owners at our airfield have long since replaced their slats with VGs and added VGs to their elevators, and now want to lengthen their wings as well. Who wouldn't, after having compared their aircraft's slow speed performance to the modified one...... Your competitor, I.C.P. Savannah, had already realized the benefits of the longer wing when they copied your design. And as soon as I demonstrated the benefit of VGs instead of slats they jumped on the opportunity with their 'VG' model, and now are very successful with it. Yes, they copied your basic CH701 design but made some significant improvements that weren't and still aren't available on the CH701 (longer cleaner wing and more powerful horizontal stabilizer/elevator), then they exactly copied the VGs that I was importing at the time, which is ironic in that I wasn't satisfied with those VGs so felt the need to design and manufacture some better ones, i.e.- Feathers VGs. Zenith could easily do the same and even better with the CH701, so why not do it???? We're happy to have done the amateur experimenting that discovered some of these significant improvements, but I would hope that now that the results are revealed, Z.A.C. would incorporate them, with proper qualified engineering, for all CH701 owners. It's just not right that other amateurs without engineering backing should have to make these changes for themselves. We would rather have the benefit of your engineering experience and stay with Zenith rather than go to some copier. You have a large and loyal following so please give us the best performing aircraft that you can. All of these changes would be really easy to incorporate - no need to engineer a completely new aircraft. The original wing profile without the slats is already proven to be an ideal airfoil with VGs. I've heard (but can't confirm) that the longer wing has already been produced for the French market to comply with their regulations, so Z.A.C. must already have some experience with it. If us amateurs in remote parts of the world can do it so successfully, then surely Z.A.C. can do it for the benefit of all. There's an old adage in business, "....If you just stand still, the pace of progress will leave you behind.....". I sure hope this doesn't happen to the 701, 'cause it's been standing still for a long time now , while others are exploiting every improvement.... I still love the 701, and I admire all that Chris Heintz and Zenith have done for the homebuilders. The CH701 is still one of the only designs that the homebuilder can realistically build from plans and scratch materials. I sure hope that can continue, what with all the move to factory-built, high cost (and I assume higher profit) machines. If you want to experience any of these improvements that we're now enjoying then please come to Australia for a holiday/business trip, and fly Hans's modified 701 and my Savannah - you really do need to know what is possible...... Thanking you for your attention. Fair skies and tailwinds always, John Gilpin ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FWF for 701
From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Mike My exp was same as Dan Wilde. 3 months for the package + 3 additional for a 90 degree bent elbow fitting for the cooling system. I have now been waiting about 3 months so far for a Warp drive 3 blade ground adjustable (no charge yet) and I have ordered a full Dynon 180 package and was given a 12 week delivery on that too. Wise up Mike. Everything is a three month wait. Just kidding Mike, looks that way though...PS Dynon sent me the complete instalation package for the unit almost immediately. This is a comprehensive package and will give the builder a lot of work to do while he waits. The unit basicaly just plugs in when it comes. Where are you getting the engine from. I got mine from Lockwood and discovered that they no longer ship engines with the "BANJO bolt" oil return @ bottom of engine. They now ship with a straight fitting that you have to change out. Another 6 week wait for me. Sorry about the long reply, You got nothing else to do though....Geoff.....hang in there Mike. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130688#130688 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Wright <davidhwright(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel System Design
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Ron I am more or less at the same stage as you are - I was considering quick disconnects at each wing root - any thoughts on these? Dave Wright Washington UK 601XL Wings, Scratchbuild On 24 Aug 2007, at 03:28, Ron Lendon wrote: > > Craig, > > I have allowed for the pressure gage but hadn't thought about the > flow. And yes it is a Corvair the WW way. I have been waiting > for him to publish the 601 book but have gotten to the point I need > to move forward. > > Got any pictures of the Andair Valve mounted? > > Thanks for the ideas. > > -------- > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) > http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130646#130646 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: CANOPY FLASHING
From: "GLJSOJ1" <gljno10(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Aug 24, 2007
HI ALL I AM NOW WORKING ON THE FLASHING ON THE FRONT OF THE CANOPY RAILS. BEST I CAN TELL THESE ARE TO SLIDE UNDER THE TOP SKIN WHEN THE CANOPY IS OPENED. FOR PILOTS SIDE I CAN DO THIS IF I CUT A SLOT JUST ABOUVE THE BEND, BUT THE OTHER SIDE IS ANOTHER 1/8 INCH OUTBOARD. SEEMS LIKE I CAN HAVE IT GO OUTSIDE THE TOP SKIN AND JUST LET THE RUBBER SEAL SLIDE OVER THE SKIN. THANKS GLENN THANKS ALSO FOR THE IDEAS FOR THE SCREWS IN THE SIDE FLASHING. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130692#130692 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sheet Metal Supplier in Hampton Roads VA Area?
From: "GLJSOJ1" <gljno10(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Aug 24, 2007
I'M A KIT BUILDER IN CHESAPEAKE SO I'LL ASK AROUND AT THE NEXT EAA METTING GLENN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130694#130694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Faulkner" <tomtafcor(at)triton.net>
Subject: 801 VOR
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Mark: I mounted my VOR antenna on the top of the rudder and it works fine. Tom Faulkner N801TP 110 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2007
I have the opposite problem to what you describe, and I refuse to use UPS if I can help it. This is a bit of a rant, but I have really had it with UPS and it's customer no-service. I live in a rural area where there is little risk of having a package stolen. About 2 years ago the driver misdelivered a package to another house, saying he had delivered it to my house. The package was never recovered and I filed a claim. I then discovered that if a claim is ever filed for a lost package to an address, UPS policy is to always require a signature at that address, and it can never be changed. The nearest UPS station is a 45 minute drive, so now I have to drive 1 1/2 hours any time someone sends a package to me via UPS. To make matters worse, when I know a package is due to come, I will make an effort to be home to get it. But since we are so far in the boonies, the driver will log that he attempted delivery, but not bother to drive all the way out to my house to actually make an attempt. I hate UPS. End of rant. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130705#130705 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruno M." <bruno(at)shortcutto701.com>
Subject: CH701 empenage aluminum sheets
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Hi all, Empenage form blocks are done, i wish to know if somebody could suggest the minimum quantity of alminum sheets i need to buy (.016, .025, ecc.) to build just the rudder, elevator and stabilizer. Thanks Best Regards, Bruno ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "R.D.(Ron) Leclerc" <infow(at)mts.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Subject: Re: type IV vw engine
Hey Bill... I will be using a 914 Type 4 2056cc with a redrive in my 701... with a mild cam upgrade and reworked heads. I have a lot of info on this engine. The type 4 was used in a lot of KR's. R.D.(Ron) Leclerc CH701 Plans(Scrap) Builder Porsche Power Belted Redrive Winnipeg, MB Canada infow(at)mts.net 8/24/2007 7:27:40 AM *************************************** This E-Mail scanned with AVG Anti-Virus Ver: 7.5! *************************************** :-[ has or is anyone useing a type iv vw engine on the zenair or any :-[ other plane? i am thinking of one with a redrive and would like :-[ any info you may have. thanks bill :-[ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List _- :-[ =========================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Re: Fuel System Design
David, I have an XL with the dual stick option. The outboard bearing brackets for the system have holes in them for fuel line support. In these holes, I mounted a AN bulkhead fitting. The inboard side is connected to the fuel selector with braided fuel line. I installed a hose barb fitting on the outboard side. When I attach my wings, I will route the ZAC-furnished rubber hose from the fuel tank, thru the side skin and to this hose barb. In that location, the connection, with a clamp, will be real easy to make. That is about as close to a quick disconnect as I want to be. Jay in Dallas David Wright wrote: > >Ron > >I am more or less at the same stage as you are - I was considering >quick disconnects at each wing root - any thoughts on these? > >Dave Wright >Washington UK >601XL Wings, Scratchbuild > >On 24 Aug 2007, at 03:28, Ron Lendon wrote: > >> >> Craig, >> >> I have allowed for the pressure gage but hadn't thought about the >> flow. And yes it is a Corvair the WW way. I have been waiting >> for him to publish the 601 book but have gotten to the point I need >> to move forward. >> >> Got any pictures of the Andair Valve mounted? >> >> Thanks for the ideas. >> >> -------- >> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI >> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) >> http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130646#130646 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ryan Vechinski <brothapig(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages
Date: Aug 24, 2007
John, I'm glad you got your Tivo back, and I'm glad you got the guy! By the way, I see you're making some nice progress on the plane! Ryan Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:03:15 -0700From: john.marzulli(at)gmail.comTo: zenit h-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Zenith-List: Slightly off topic: Lost and stol en packagesWe all get packages delivered to us full of clecos, Homebuilt He lp DVDs or other parts, and normally nothing goes wrong.This week UPS left a package on my doorstep without taking a signature. It turns out that this step is discretionary to the driver. As a result the package was stolen. A nyway, I was able to recover my package with the help of the Police.It's a long story, and I have it recounted here: http://701builder.livejournal.com / In other news my fuselage kit is being delivered tomorrow. Let's see them try to steal that!Happy building!-- John Marzullihttp://701Builder.blogspo t.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.-Airplane The Movie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2007
From: John C Edwards <cte82621(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Re: VGs on 701
Juan, Well said! I am one of those quiet but experienced pilots who decided long ago that there is nothing out there that can't be improved upon. It is the spirit of Americans after all , isn't it... I started my project at kitlog.com/kapowsin about six months ago and from the get-go ordered it without the leading edge of the wings cut for slats. I have heard all of your various viewpoints and appreciate the input. I bought into the 701 because of the slats and really like the way it flies with slats, but love the advatages VG's add to it! Thanks again , John E in Kapowsin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Crvsecretary(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Subject: Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages
I have to agree, Steve. UPS has put a LOT of 'discretion' into the drivers hands; an unscrupulous driver will find it easy to do what you describe, and the repercussions for an honest driver for an honest mistake are dear. At my workplace, we use UPS extensively and I have found over the past year the volume of misdelivered packages has gone up. Since we do not insure EVERY package (too expensive) and basic UPS liability is limited to $100...IF they admit a misdelivery (and that's a big "IF")....and IF we want to go through the UPS claims process.....well, it's just not worth it. We end up taking a big hit for misdelivered packages and we will usually re-ship the order to make a customer happy and hope UPS can retrieve the misdelivered package...and if not, we take the loss. But I can tell you we tell every customer that it is a UPS issue and to put pressure on thier regional manager to improve customer service on the local level. To be fair, I don't see FedEx Ground as an answer. either...... In a message dated 8/24/2007 7:32:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams" I have the opposite problem to what you describe, and I refuse to use UPS if I can help it. This is a bit of a rant, but I have really had it with UPS and it's customer no-service. I live in a rural area where there is little risk of having a package stolen. About 2 years ago the driver misdelivered a package to another house, saying he had delivered it to my house. The package was never recovered and I filed a claim. I then discovered that if a claim is ever filed for a lost package to an address, UPS policy is to always require a signature at that address, and it can never be changed. The nearest UPS station is a 45 minute drive, so now I have to drive 1 1/2 hours any time someone sends a package to me via UPS. To make matters worse, when I know a package is due to come, I will make an effort to be home to get it. But since we are so far in the boonies, the driver will log that he attempted delivery, but not bother to drive all the way out to my house to actually make a a ttempt. I hate UPS. End of rant. http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: weight & balance with one scale?
Averaging only enters in if you decide to do three weighings rotating the scales each time. You just need to know a reliable weight for each main and for the nosewheel, empty of fuel and non-essential gadgets with the plane as level as possible (upper longerons are the reference) and no sideways stress on the wheels. Then plug the figures into the W&B formula, assuming you already have that. Does that help any? Dred ---- Juan Vega wrote: > > Gig, > i am in the process of getting ready for weight and bal as well. when you do the three scals, do you take the average of the three? hows that work? I have the work sheets with the arms but the weight things i am needing of some pip slapping to understand. > > Juan > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> > >Sent: Aug 23, 2007 2:31 PM > >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: weight & balance with one scale? > > > > > >Ok her's the plan. Go to Wal-Mart or Home Depot and get 3 of the best analog scales you can find. > > > >Then go do the weight and balance and then return the scales. Here's the clincher. Tell them they didn't go high enough for your wife to use. > > > >I'll bet they hand you your money back and not say a word. > > > >-------- > >W.R. "Gig" Giacona > >601XL Under Construction > >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > > > > > > > >Read this topic online here: > > > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130552#130552 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry Hey <jerryhey(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: VGs on 701
Date: Aug 24, 2007
The impression I get is that the slats improve STOL performance when taking off i.e. high power settings- prop wash. However, when landing with low or idle power below 50 mph a 701 with slats will sink rapidly and the elevator may lack the authority to pick up the nose. The claim is that eliminating the slats and adding VGs to the wing and elevator restores elevator authority. I am keeping an open mind. I would like to hear from veteran 701 pilots about power off, low speed approaches and high sink rates. P.S. My last airplane, a Tailwind, would not stall until about 50 mph, but sank heavily if the air speed fell below 80 mph. All Tailwind pilots know to maintain 80mph to the flair or face a gear bending collision with the runway. Thanks Jerry On Aug 24, 2007, at 9:15 AM, John C Edwards wrote: > > > Juan, > > Well said! I am one of those quiet but experienced pilots who > decided long ago that there is nothing out there that can't be > improved upon. It is the spirit of Americans after all , isn't it... > > I started my project at kitlog.com/kapowsin about six months ago > and from the get-go ordered it without the leading edge of the > wings cut for slats. > > I have heard all of your various viewpoints and appreciate the input. > I bought into the 701 because of the slats and really like the way > it flies with slats, but love the advatages VG's add to it! > > Thanks again , > > John E in Kapowsin > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: weight & balance with one scale?
yep, awesome thanx. juan -----Original Message----- >From: dredmoody(at)cox.net >Sent: Aug 24, 2007 9:51 AM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: weight & balance with one scale? > > >Averaging only enters in if you decide to do three weighings rotating the scales each time. You just need to know a reliable weight for each main and for the nosewheel, empty of fuel and non-essential gadgets with the plane as level as possible (upper longerons are the reference) and no sideways stress on the wheels. Then plug the figures into the W&B formula, assuming you already have that. > >Does that help any? > >Dred > >---- Juan Vega wrote: >> >> Gig, >> i am in the process of getting ready for weight and bal as well. when you do the three scals, do you take the average of the three? hows that work? I have the work sheets with the arms but the weight things i am needing of some pip slapping to understand. >> >> Juan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >From: Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> >> >Sent: Aug 23, 2007 2:31 PM >> >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >> >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: weight & balance with one scale? >> > >> > >> >Ok her's the plan. Go to Wal-Mart or Home Depot and get 3 of the best analog scales you can find. >> > >> >Then go do the weight and balance and then return the scales. Here's the clincher. Tell them they didn't go high enough for your wife to use. >> > >> >I'll bet they hand you your money back and not say a word. >> > >> >-------- >> >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >> >601XL Under Construction >> >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Read this topic online here: >> > >> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130552#130552 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Subject: Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages
Steve, I have the same experience except with FedEX. We also live in the boonies and the after one attempt to deliver, we have to travel about the same 45 min to the nearest FedEx depot. In our area the FedEx home delivery is subbed out to private contractors and they get paid very little per package so they don't want to waste time. I have everything I can delivered by UPS, the route driver Tony has delivered so much stuff for my plane and a bus RV conversion that he claims to have delivered all the parts for it. Tony will leave my packages in the garage if we are not home. The trick is to get to know the driver. Bob Spudis In a message dated 8/24/2007 8:32:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams" I have the opposite problem to what you describe, and I refuse to use UPS if I can help it. This is a bit of a rant, but I have really had it with UPS and it's customer no-service. I live in a rural area where there is little risk of having a package stolen. About 2 years ago the driver misdelivered a package to another house, saying he had delivered it to my house. The package was never recovered and I filed a claim. I then discovered that if a claim is ever filed for a lost package to an address, UPS policy is to always require a signature at that address, and it can never be changed. The nearest UPS station is a 45 minute drive, so now I have to drive 1 1/2 hours any time someone sends a package to me via UPS. To make matters worse, when I know a package is due to come, I will make an effort to be home to get it. But since we are so far in the boonies, the driver will log that he attempted delivery, but not bother to drive all the way out to my house to actually make an a! ttempt. I hate UPS. End of rant. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130705#130705 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Choice of engine for the CH 601HDS
From: "rickpitcher" <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2007
charlesmcg(at)citlink.net wrote: > Having acquired a partially complete 601 HDS kit, which I intend to > complete as an E-LSA, I would like to hear comments on the broad > question below! > > How do the Subaru and Corvair engines stack up against Rotax & Jabiru > when you take cost, installation, available technical support, weight > and final performance into account? And are there any 601 builders > reasonably close to Sacramento, CA? > > Sincerely > > -- > Charles McGloughlin Email - charlesmcg(at)citlink.net > 8654 Bluefield Way Phones - Cell (916)832-0654 > Sacramento, CA 95823 Home (916)689-7701 I went through the same thing a few years ago when it was time to pick a powerplant. So many choices it's hard to decide which one to use. You have to decide if you want the max performance or the lowest initial price. I ended up going with the Jabiru 3300. It's the lightest of the group, and the most horsepower. I'm happy with the choice. The auto conversions are really inviting because of their lower cost and familiarity, but by the time you add the PSRU the extra weight and $$$ starts to add up. You might wish later that you'd spent a couple thousand more for a lighter/stronger powerplant in the first place. You're going to have to come in on the lightweight side if you want those little HDS wings to be meet LSA stall speeds. While you're building and contemplating "improvements", remember the homebuilder's adage: "Add only lightness and simplicity". Rick Pitcher CH601HD (considering another build...) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130767#130767 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Subject: Re: VGs on 701
Jerry, I can attest to high sink rates at idle below 45 mph. I haven't really found lack of elevator authority though. You definitely need a fair amount of power with a high attitude and slats, it will literally hang on the prop. My last BFR a few weeks ago,my instructor wanted to fly in the 701 and see what it would do. He had me fly hands off using rudder only, right to the airport, do an engine out 180 degree turn to see how much altitude you loose to see if you could make it back to the runway, pull the power near the airport and do an engine out right to the ground. The plane performed well, you need to keep you speed up and fly it right to a few feet above the ground before flaring. Someday I would like to remove the slats and try some VG's, but for now I am having a blast. Bob Spudis N701ZX In a message dated 8/24/2007 10:03:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jerryhey(at)earthlink.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jerry Hey The impression I get is that the slats improve STOL performance when taking off i.e. high power settings- prop wash. However, when landing with low or idle power below 50 mph a 701 with slats will sink rapidly and the elevator may lack the authority to pick up the nose. The claim is that eliminating the slats and adding VGs to the wing and elevator restores elevator authority. I am keeping an open mind. I would like to hear from veteran 701 pilots about power off, low speed approaches and high sink rates. http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Choice of engine for the CH 601HDS
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2007
And just to reduce possible future confusion there isn't a need for a PSRU on the Corvair auto coversion. rickpitcher wrote: > > The auto conversions are really inviting because of their lower cost and familiarity, but by the time you add the PSRU the extra weight and $$$ starts to add up. You might wish later that you'd spent a couple thousand more for a lighter/stronger powerplant in the first place. > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130770#130770 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: CANOPY FLASHING
Glenn, I think the entire front flashing should be positioned inboard of the front top skin so no slots need to be cut. The front top skin should fit over the flashing, over the combination canopy hinge and upper motor mount bracket, and even over the canopy hinge bolt. If you need some photos, email me back off list, but there are decent photos in the assembly guide that should help you. Dred ---- GLJSOJ1 wrote: > > HI ALL > > I AM NOW WORKING ON THE FLASHING ON THE FRONT OF THE CANOPY RAILS. BEST I CAN TELL THESE ARE TO SLIDE UNDER THE TOP SKIN WHEN THE CANOPY IS OPENED. FOR PILOTS SIDE I CAN DO THIS IF I CUT A SLOT JUST ABOUVE THE BEND, BUT THE OTHER SIDE IS ANOTHER 1/8 INCH OUTBOARD. SEEMS LIKE I CAN HAVE IT GO OUTSIDE THE TOP SKIN AND JUST LET THE RUBBER SEAL SLIDE OVER THE SKIN. > > THANKS > GLENN > > THANKS ALSO FOR THE IDEAS FOR THE SCREWS IN THE SIDE FLASHING. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130692#130692 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "hillsgun" <hillsgun(at)nwinfo.net>
Subject: Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages
Date: Aug 24, 2007
I agree that you need to get to know the driver and sometimes the terminal personnel. I have had problems with some ups drivers, but my regular driver is as good as gold. I picked up quite a few packages from the terminal for quite a while and once they got to know me there they were great. The once handed me a package (self sealing bubble envelope) and it felt light to me. I checked it and not only was it empty, but the vendor had not even pealed the self seal strip off the package. Obviously the vendors fault. UPS called while I was standing there. Told the vendor to send me another next day air and that UPS would cover all expenses (shipping and the part). GREAT SERVICE. I am not affiliated with them in any way, and don't ship or receive a large amount of items. I just take the time to get to know the carrier, try and be pleasant to the personnel, and know there system of operation, and usually they will try and work with me. I have found this to work with the post office as well. Back to the adage about more flies with honey. Dan _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of NYTerminat(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 7:58 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages Steve, I have the same experience except with FedEX. We also live in the boonies and the after one attempt to deliver, we have to travel about the same 45 min to the nearest FedEx depot. In our area the FedEx home delivery is subbed out to private contractors and they get paid very little per package so they don't want to waste time. I have everything I can delivered by UPS, the route driver Tony has delivered so much stuff for my plane and a bus RV conversion that he claims to have delivered all the parts for it. Tony will leave my packages in the garage if we are not home. The trick is to get to know the driver. Bob Spudis In a message dated 8/24/2007 8:32:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com writes: I have the opposite problem to what you describe, and I refuse to use UPS if I can help it. This is a bit of a rant, but I have really had it with UPS and it's customer no-service. I live in a rural area where there is little risk of having a package stolen. About 2 years ago the driver misdelivered a package to another house, saying he had delivered it to my house. The package was never recovered and I filed a claim. I then discovered that if a claim is ever filed for a lost package to an address, UPS policy is to always require a signature at that address, and it can never be changed. The nearest UPS station is a 45 minute drive, so now I have to drive 1 1/2 hours any time someone sends a package to me via UPS. To make matters worse, when I know a package is due to come, I will make an effort to be home to get it. But since we are so far in the boonies, the driver will log that he attempted delivery, but not bother to drive all the way out to my house to actually make an a! ttempt. I hate UPS. End of rant. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130705#130705 bsp; --> ===================== _____ <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982> . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Choice of engine for the CH 601HDS
From: "rickpitcher" <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Gig Giacona wrote: > And just to reduce possible future confusion there isn't a need for a PSRU on the Corvair auto coversion. > > > rickpitcher wrote: > > > > The auto conversions are really inviting because of their lower cost and familiarity, but by the time you add the PSRU the extra weight and $$$ starts to add up. You might wish later that you'd spent a couple thousand more for a lighter/stronger powerplant in the first place. > > > Yes. Gig is absolutely correct. There are some excellent auto conversions aout there. the Corvair has been a popular choice for 3 decades now. Very well suited to aircraft use. The Subaru was the auto engine conversion that I almost went for. I REALLY wanted to find a fuel injected Honda conversion but was surprised to find very few Honda powered airplanes. My choice was made when I found a "new in the crate" Jabiru 3300 a few hundred miles nor'east across the mighty Colorado River for a very decent price. A lucky break :) Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130779#130779 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VGs on 701
From: "Avidmagnum" <classpix(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2007
I went flying a couple days ago with my 20,000+ hour CFI for by BFR. The last BFR we flew with the slats and he thought the aircraft flew OK as he put it. With the slats off he said it flew much nicer. The handling is just that much better. My 701 is on amphibious floats with a 912s. He had such a good time in the 701 he said he hated to charge me! The nice thing about Experimental Aircraft is just that....they are experimental! For those that love the slats...leave them alone! For those that are not sure.....experiment....you are only out a little on the price of the VG's. (The ones for my Cessna 170A were $1450...one reason that I only own home builts now!) And you can remove the vg's and put the slats back on....no problem. I love looking at JG's web site and enjoy our back and forth e-mails. He seems to love what he does! Please keep new ideas coming. I'll look and then "take them or leave them" In my case.... with my situation....I'd have sold my 701 and got a different float plane if the idea to remove the slats would not have been posted here. Thanks!! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130786#130786 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Out-of-spec 601XL/Jabiru 3300 motor mount
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Just to be sure I understand you correcly..... The measurements you provided were of the original mount that was "too long", correct? Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130793#130793 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Subject: Re: VGs to Z.A.C.
Dear John Gilpin: If you know so much about aircraft design why do you not start your own company and leave those of us that like the CH701 just the way it is alone. You and many others seem to completely miss the fact that the CH701 uses a slotted airfoil, the slats are not an add-on. VGs are an add-on to make a poorly performing airfoil work better. Adding VGs in place of the slotted portion of the CH701 airfoil merely replaces some of the performance lost. John Read Phone: 303-648-3261 Fax: 303-648-3262 Cell: 719-494-4567 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "john H" <professor71(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: 601HD to HDS
Date: Aug 24, 2007
I've been flying my 601HD-912ul for about 3 years now. It is a great little plane and fun to fly most of the time. However living in the mountains of southwest VA it can be pretty turbulent sometimes. I've been thinking about possibly switching out to HDS wings hoping that the higher wing loading would smooth out some of the bumps. Anyone out there that has made the switch have any pros or cons or would there even be that much difference? I'm guessing the another plus may be about a 10mph increase in cruise speed. Thanks in advance John _________________________________________________________________ See what youre getting intobefore you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)primus.ca>
Subject: Re: 601HD to HDS
Date: Aug 24, 2007
John, I replaced my HD wings with HDS some years ago. You are right on both counts - extra cruise speed and significantly less bumpy. But, in very hot moist air and 80 hp Rotax, with two 200 lbs people on board it barely "gets up on the step". I can cruise 120 mph with one up, but with two I'm down to 110 to 112 mph. With the HD wings I cruised at 95 mph with two up. Recently added VGs by John Gilpin. Dropped the stall and landing speeds back to where they were with the HDs with no loss of cruise speed. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2007
hillsgun(at)nwinfo.net wrote: > I agree that you need to get to know the driver and sometimes the terminal personnel. I have had problems with some ups drivers, but my regular driver is as good as gold. I picked up quite a few packages from the terminal for quite a while and once they got to know me there they were great. The once handed me a package (self sealing bubble envelope) and it felt light to me. I checked it and not only was it empty, but the vendor had not even pealed the self seal strip off the package. Obviously the vendors fault. UPS called while I was standing there. Told the vendor to send me another next day air and that UPS would cover all expenses (shipping and the part). GREAT SERVICE. I am not affiliated with them in any way, and dont ship or receive a large amount of items. I just take the time to get to know the carrier, try and be pleasant to the personnel, and know there system of operation, and usually they will try and work with me. I have found this to work with the post office as well. Back to the adage about more flies with honey. Dan > > [/b][b] I don't blame the current driver, the package was "lost" by another driver covering his route who was not familiar with the area. His having to drive out to my place 3 times fully expecting me not to be there takes a serious bite out of his time. I know the folks at the terminal better than I would like, they bring my package up to the counter when they see me drive in the gate so it's there when I walk in. Yet the local terminal management say they can't change the signature requirement. I call customer service and they say that only the local terminal can change the requirement. I've gone around and around in circles for almost 2 years, and after a number of outright lies, shuffling blame, and a lot of frustration, I ran out of honey a while ago. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130819#130819 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2007
From: Robert Schoenberger <hrs1(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Stolen or lost packages
List . . . Seems to me I signed a written release for Fed Ex a couple of years ago giving them permission to leave the packages without signature. Same with UPS. We're pretty smart people - can't you devise some sort of container like a street mailbox into which these folk can deposit the package? Most of the libraries up this way have return boxes like this. Also a twenty spot at Christmas works wonders with these nice service people. Robert Schoenberger 701 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: Out-of-spec 601XL/Jabiru 3300 motor mount
Date: Aug 24, 2007
> Just to be sure I understand you correctly..... The measurements you provided were of the original mount that was "too long", correct? Yup, those are the measurements of my bad mount, the one that tilts the engine's nose down about 2 degrees too much. That would make sense if (as Jabiru USA says) the top tubes are 10 mm too long. I never got around to checking the side angle. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Subject: Re: VGs to Z.A.C.
John, If you don't like the tread, hit the delete button. I find the tread interesting. Bob Spudis In a message dated 8/24/2007 1:34:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, JohnDRead(at)aol.com writes: Dear John Gilpin: If you know so much about aircraft design why do you not start your own company and leave those of us that like the CH701 just the way it is alone. You and many others seem to completely miss the fact that the CH701 uses a slotted airfoil, the slats are not an add-on. VGs are an add-on to make a poorly performing airfoil work better. Adding VGs in place of the slotted portion of the CH701 airfoil merely replaces some of the performance lost. John Read Phone: 303-648-3261 Fax: 303-648-3262 Cell: 719-494-4567 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Subject: Builders Log CD
From: dhmacp(at)maqs.net
Can anyone suggest a company that sells a CD Builders Log? Just beginning my 601XL. Dave Mac Pherson dhmacp(at)maqs.net do not archieve ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Builders Log CD
From: "hansriet" <hansinla(at)mac.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2007
I don't know that software, but have you checked out www.expercraft.com. It might give you what you want. Hans Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130850#130850 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2007
From: Bob Percival <bob@frontrange-pc.com>
Subject: somewhat off topic - Purchasing an incomplete homebuilt
I looked at CH601HD project, recently advertised here, and have a couple of questions about purchasing a work in progress: 1 - Is it possible to be the A&P for a purchased project? I seem to recall that this honor can be bestowed on the original builder and I wonder if it is applicable to someone who finishes a project. 2 - What must be done to satisfy the FAA that you meet the 51% rule? Thx Bob Percival bob@frontrange-pc.com CH701 scratch builder - glacial pace ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Flap Indicator
Date: Aug 24, 2007
While staring at Surplus's inexpensive flap motor, it struck me I hadn't thought any further about an indicator than putting painted lines on the left flap. Then my devious mind took over. Has anyone used an extra fuel quantity sender, and a re-painted VDO fuel gauge to serve as an indicator? Seems to me that replacing the float with an appropriate length of stiff wire riding in some sort of clip ought to do the job. Any thoughts on this? Paul Rodriguez 601XL/Corvair ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JG" <vgstol(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: VGs on 701
Date: Aug 25, 2007
For those who have tried to access the www.stolspeed.com website recently, the provider was changing servers, so all the new links and photos were missing. Try again now for details on the Longer Wing and some photos of STOL flying in the Australian outback. Tailwinds always, JG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Flap Indicator
Date: Aug 24, 2007
It would work, so would a position indicator and led display from the ray allen company. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of paulrod36(at)msn.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 7:35 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Flap Indicator While staring at Surplus's inexpensive flap motor, it struck me I hadn't thought any further about an indicator than putting painted lines on the left flap. Then my devious mind took over. Has anyone used an extra fuel quantity sender, and a re-painted VDO fuel gauge to serve as an indicator? Seems to me that replacing the float with an appropriate length of stiff wire riding in some sort of clip ought to do the job. Any thoughts on this? Paul Rodriguez 601XL/Corvair "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 8/23/2007 4:04 PM 8/23/2007 4:04 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Flap Indicator
Hi Paul That sounds like a great idea. If you are using an EFIS you can probably just plug the sensor into the EFIS to get a readout. My approach is a little different. I have designed (but not yet completed) a magnetic switch sensor to tell me when I have 10 degrees of flaps. It will light a panel LED to indicate that. I can depend on the limit switches to set the flaps to 0 and max. You might want to contact your EFIS/EIS vendor and see if they can suggest a sensor that will easily plug into their display box. That might be a quicker and easier solution than the fuel sender approach. Paul XL fuselage At 04:34 PM 8/24/2007, you wrote: >While staring at Surplus's inexpensive flap motor, it struck me I >hadn't thought any further about an indicator than putting painted >lines on the left flap. Then my devious mind took over. Has anyone >used an extra fuel quantity sender, and a re-painted VDO fuel gauge >to serve as an indicator? Seems to me that replacing the float with >an appropriate length of stiff wire riding in some sort of clip >ought to do the job. Any thoughts on this? > >Paul Rodriguez >601XL/Corvair > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel System Design
Date: Aug 24, 2007
That is from my web site. http://www.zodiacxl.com/Brake%20and%20Fuel%20system.htm I wasn't happy with the location up on the panel. So I moved it low to keep a pressure head on the valve. It works fine. Cheers Matt www.zodiacxl.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:43 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel System Design >> Got any pictures of the Andair Valve mounted? > > Mine is still mounted in its box. But I've attached pictures of somebody > else's installation. Unfortunately I've lost track of whose plane it is. > > -- Craig > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Builders Log CD
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Using Kitlog Pro 2.0. Works for me. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130900#130900 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Builders Log CD
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2007
You should check out our Kitlog Pro software. There is a free 15 day evaluation version downloadable from the web site and if you like it you can register it for $49.95. Kitlog comes with a nice automatic web site building feature and your logs can be displayed on the www.mykitlog.com site with the click of a button. Probably the most significant feature of Kitlog, however, is the fact that your building database is stored locally on YOUR computer. Only a copy is stored on the MyKitlog web site. Your precious log entries are safe on your computer no matter what the long term status of the Kitlog Pro company is. This is a pretty important aspect, in my mind. I've been working on my RV-4 for about 17 years now and that's a long time to expect a free web site to keep my records around. Anyway, check out Kitlog Pro. I think you'll like it. Main Site: Kitbuilders Site: Evaluation Dowload: Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics / Kitlog Pro -------- Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130905#130905 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel System Design
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Craig and others, Added a Floscan 210B to the design just down from the second pump, filter will come after that. It will connect right to the Dynon unit I plan to install. I don't see the need for a quick disconnect at the wings, once they go on I hope to keep them on. I am planing on using the Stainless Braided hose though and keeping all the pressure on the engine side of the firewall. The braided hose is much less likely to rupture if the worse thing happens. I am going to have to experiment with some clear line to decide about mounting the selector valve low. Thanks for all the feedback, keep it coming, -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130906#130906 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Danny Offill" <doffill(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel System Design
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Matt what did you use to paint the inside of the fuselage with. It looks great. Danny -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt & Jo Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 9:02 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel System Design That is from my web site. http://www.zodiacxl.com/Brake%20and%20Fuel%20system.htm I wasn't happy with the location up on the panel. So I moved it low to keep a pressure head on the valve. It works fine. Cheers Matt www.zodiacxl.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:43 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel System Design >> Got any pictures of the Andair Valve mounted? > > Mine is still mounted in its box. But I've attached pictures of somebody > else's installation. Unfortunately I've lost track of whose plane it is. > > -- Craig > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel System Design
Date: Aug 24, 2007
> That is from my web site. Thanks, I'll make a note. BTW: Matt's site contains a link to a very good article on fuel systems that I've read in the past: www.ellison-fluid-systems.com/article/fuelsystemsforhomebuilts/fuelsystems.h tm -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2007
From: "Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net>
Subject: Re: 701 VG's - Put this puppy to rest
Matt, The concept is called Capitalism, If you have something I want then I'll pay you some money for what you have.You then take a portion of my money and go make some more to sell to other people, works from hamburgers (simple, you could even make these yourself, kinda petty of BurgerKing to charge us for them isn't it?) to HumVee's(complex).You get to keep the balance to feed your family or develop more stuff. Worked pretty good for over 200yrs. I assume that you aren't just refering to John Gilpin and his VG's for homebuilts but the folks that sell VG's for Cessna's and other certified aircraft as well. THOSE are priced 10-20 TIMES what John is asking. Back under my Rock,the Sun is coming up! John Bolding > > As a side point, I think it petty that these people should charge money for such simple things as VGs. Why not just share the idea and give instructions for other builders (ie in the spirit of the movement). > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2007
From: "Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net>
Subject: Re: VGs to Z.A.C.
John, Respectfully, YOU have missed the fact that the slats ARE an add on that Mr. Heintz used to increase the C/L (at high AOA) to the max value he could get from the 65018 airfoil, which does NOT, in it's original form, have a slat. They do a WONDERFUL job at the assigned task. SOME think that VG's change the flying properties to something they like BETTER than those of the slats. Each one of us has "Experimental " written in big letters on the side of our airplanes. It REALLY does mean something !! Regards John From: JohnDRead(at)aol.com You and many others seem to completely miss the fact that >the CH701 uses a slotted airfoil, the slats are not an add-on. >John Read > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2007
From: Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone(at)gci.net>
Subject: 801 VOR
Mark I mounted mine on the left wing behind the inboard fuel tank. It works fine. Bill Wilcox N801BW 325 hrs > > Mark: > I mounted my VOR antenna on the top of the rudder and it works fine. > Tom Faulkner > N801TP > 110 hrs > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2007
From: Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone(at)gci.net>
Subject: VGs on 801
I agree. I have taken the VGs off my 801 and put the slats back on because it his hunting season and I need the extra performance. I'm glad I have a convertible airplane! The conversion takes about 20 minutes. It flys different in each configuration but it flys fine in each configuration. A Cessna flys different than an Maul which flys different than a Piper. I must admit I did not get as much increase in speed as I initially estimated but I am happy. It is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all. Bill Wilcox N801BW 325 hrs To the beach after work. Subject: Zenith-List: Re: VGs on 701 From: "Avidmagnum" <classpix(at)sbcglobal.net> I went flying a couple days ago with my 20,000+ hour CFI for by BFR. The last BFR we flew with the slats and he thought the aircraft flew OK as he put it. With the slats off he said it flew much nicer. The handling is just that much better. My 701 is on amphibious floats with a 912s. He had such a good time in the 701 he said he hated to charge me! The nice thing about Experimental Aircraft is just that....they are experimental! For those that love the slats...leave them alone! For those that are not sure.....experiment....you are only out a little on the price of the VG's. (The ones for my Cessna 170A were $1450...one reason that I only own home builts now!) And you can remove the vg's and put the slats back on....no problem. I love looking at JG's web site and enjoy our back and forth e-mails. He seems to love what he does! Please keep new ideas coming. I'll look and then "take them or leave them" In my case.... with my situation....I'd have sold my 701 and got a different float plane if the idea to remove the slats would not have been posted here. Thanks!! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130786#130786 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel System Design
Date: Aug 25, 2007
I used Stewart Systems water based paint. It takes a little getting used to. But I really like it. This stuff is very durable and very safe. I tried it on the interior to get the feel of it. I am glad I did. If you order paint from them they will send you a video that shows how to do it. They are really great to work with. http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/ Good luck and happy building Matt www.zodiacxl.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danny Offill" <doffill(at)cableone.net> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 10:21 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel System Design > > Matt what did you use to paint the inside of the fuselage with. It looks > great. > > Danny > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Repairs to Plexiglass 701 Door
From: "Tommy Walker" <twalker(at)cableone.net>
Date: Aug 25, 2007
Thanks to the many listers who replied to my post about repairing my Pax door. I tried Acetone and several other strong chemicals. None of them worked. I guess the composition of the plexiglas is different now. Finally I found a product that worked to "weld" the pieces together. It is called Weld-On 16. It is a good product. I got it from McMaster-Carr. http://www.mcmaster.com Thanks for all the advice. Thanks to John Hoak for the suggestion to make a gusset out of a piece of scrap to keep everything together. It appears to be working. Thanks, Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Archive 99 and 99/100% complete. Flight is imminent http://myweb.cableone.net/twalker/noseup.mpg -------- Tommy Walker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131001#131001 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VGs to Z.A.C.
From: "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Aug 25, 2007
The 701 was designed to the safety and engineering standards of TP10141E and later also qualified to BCAR-S and LSA in some specific configurations. In many countries, the modifications as suggested disqualify the aircraft from operating in a simple category and require a change to experimental category priveleges. This may be up to individual choice however I do not expect ZAC to waste resources on validating someone elses design changes. The suggestion of adding 18" to the wingtips is simply alarming - and I understand ZAC already offer a bigger 701 called the patriot150 if thats what is wanted. Like to know the response from ZAC particuarly the results of any testing they may have already done, but for now I'm happy with my 701 operating as a microlight aircraft versus having to register as experimental which requires LAME maintenance and full PPL to operate. Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131008#131008 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: somewhat off topic - Purchasing an incomplete homebuilt
From: "txpilot" <djg7(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 25, 2007
Bob, The following is from AC 20-27F, Section 7g: (3) Buying an Aircraft Built From a Partially Completed Kit. If you buy an aircraft built from a partially completed kit, you should get all fabrication and assembly records, such as receipts for materials, the builders log, and aircraft, engine, and propeller logbooks, from the previous owner. You should add the construction efforts of the previous amateur builders to your builders log to show the construction history of the kit. This information may help us to determine that your aircraft is eligible for amateur-built certification. This AC contains other information regarding the Repairman Certificate. Also, you might want to check AC 65-23A regarding the Repairman Certificate. Hope this helps. Best Regards, Dan Ginty Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131032#131032 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "george may" <gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: electrical design
Date: Aug 26, 2007
you might want to check out the exp2 buss at anywheremap.com/pdfs/BBATTech.pdf It eliminates a lot of wiring ,has a lot of features condensed into one place and is very convienent to use I have it on my system George May 601XL 912s 145 hours _________________________________________________________________ A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2007
From: Bob Percival <bob@frontrange-pc.com>
Subject: Re: somewhat off topic - Purchasing an incomplete homebuilt
Thanks Dan, The 601 in question is a plans project. The builder's approach was to fabricate the sheet metal parts for the entire project before riveting any of the sub-assemblies. The fab work is mostly done so it's really like buying a kit at this point. Based on what I've read I think I'd be in good shape for the amateur-built classification. Thanks again for you response! Bob txpilot wrote: > > Bob, > > The following is from AC 20-27F, Section 7g: > > (3) Buying an Aircraft Built From a Partially Completed Kit. If you buy an aircraft built from a partially completed kit, you should get all fabrication and assembly records, such as receipts for materials, the builders log, and aircraft, engine, and propeller logbooks, from the previous owner. You > should add the construction efforts of the previous amateur builders to your builders log to show the construction history of the kit. This information may help us to determine that your aircraft is eligible for amateur-built certification. > > This AC contains other information regarding the Repairman Certificate. Also, you might want to check AC 65-23A regarding the Repairman Certificate. Hope this helps. > > Best Regards, > > Dan Ginty > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131032#131032 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: electrical design
Date: Aug 26, 2007
There actually is a use for the split master in our 601/Jabiru application Jeff. The side that is intended to send power to the field of the alternator can be used instead to activate a continuous duty relay between the permanent magnet alternator's regulated output and the positive terminal of the battery. Serves the same purpose without any big drawbacks. Dred 3) If you are used to the Cessna master switch, it probably doesn't make sense with the single phase alternator. . Jeff Davidson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com>
Subject: Oil Temps
Date: Aug 26, 2007
Hello group ,this is somewhat Zenith related at least to the Cont.0-200 powered people.When flying my 0200 Sonerai in this Texas heat my oil temps climb to the red line of 220 degrees and seems to stay there . Now my Tripacer with the 0320 Lyc. is red lined at 245 degrees .Sometimes I fly the Tripacer at 230 degrees 15 short of the red line .Both engines being built similar using the same type and weight of oil should I be concerned with the 0-200 say heating to slightly above the red line temp ,remember I am using the engine in an experimental . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net>
Subject: 601XL Rear Spar Reinforcement Idea
Date: Aug 26, 2007
Gang: There has been some concern about the unexpected in-flight failures of various 601XL's. As an experienced (Ph.D. + 25 years) aerospace engineer, I am tempted to brush these off as "cause unknowable" due [1]to the large number of unknown variables in construction, maintenance and operation of the accident aircraft, and [2] the lack of available data about the accidents themselves. That is my "official" opinion. A few people have asked me about this, however, so I took a good look at the 1/2 built wings in my garage. Knowing that the wings have passed static proof tests, I looked mainly for what you might call "less than optimal" design features, including places in the design where a reasonable error in construction might lead to a more serious condition. The only thing I found was that the clearance hole for the aileron pushrod is rather large and is located rather close to the rear spar lower flange. It would be easy during construction to make this hole closer to, or even touch the flange. Since the top and bottom of the spar carry the large part of the wing bending load, this *could* weaken the spar. NOTE: This is an analytical discussion, not support by experimental evidence. In engineering one often lacks complete data, and in those cases you look for ways to mitigate risk. If the cost of mitigating the risk is large, you may decide to do more extensive analysis or experimental testing. If the cost of mitigating the risk is small, however, you might just decide to go ahead and do the fix regardless. That is what I chose to do. So I cut a piece of .025 standard angle to a length will cover the three A5 rivet holes in the bottom flange on both sides of the aileron pushrod hole. I bent the piece to match the angle of the spar flange, then trimmed it to fit flush with the flange and also to clear the exit hole. Finally, I match drilled it to the spar, deburred and primed. Complete details and pictures of this "fix" are available on line at: http://members.cox.net/n601ge/drawings/rearspar.html This small doubler strap reinforces the flange in that section of the spar, and thereby helps transfer wing bending loads across the hole. It has many good characteristics: * It takes about an hour to make and install. * Installed, it is invisible. * It does not interfere with aileron operation. * It weighs approximately nothing. * It costs approximately nothing. * It can be easily retrofit to completed wings. and no bad ones that I know of, and therefore fits the requirements for risk mitigation, IMHO. So I'm putting them on my plane. If you think differently, please do not put them on your plane. If you think my analysis is flawed, please correspond with me off-group. All standard disclaimers apply, etc. FWIW, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: 601XL Rear Spar Reinforcement Idea
Andy, Your reinforcing looks reasonable. Just don't forget that, on the inboard part of this reinforced area, the flap hinge will go between the bottom skin and the bottom flange of the rear spar. And that hinge won't be riveted until much later. On my particular airplane, the drawings called for a 38mm hole, 20mm from the bottom of the bottom flange. That leaves less than 1mm between the hole and the flange. The hole was later changed to a 32mm dia., leaving about a 4mm clearance; which I suspect is what you have. I might measure the clearance between the flange and the control rod end to see if I can partially cover the hole with the reinforcing angle. Instead of trimming the vertical leg fo the doubler angle, I think I would only notch it (at the hole) and put some A4 rivets into the web of the spar to help resist buckling of the doubler angle. Just my 2 cents worth. Jay ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Scott's XL?
Date: Aug 26, 2007
I hesitate to ask but does anyone know the status of Scott Laughlin's 601XL project? The last update on his website was on May 27th and said he was ready for FAA inspection. Since then, nothing. It is such a beautiful plane it is hard to believe the inspector found much to complain about. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Out-of-spec 601XL/Jabiru 3300 motor mount
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Date: Aug 26, 2007
Checked my mount today..... my top tubes are about 10 mm shorter than yours so hopefully I've got a good one. Thanks for sharing your experience! Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131126#131126 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: Out-of-spec 601XL/Jabiru 3300 motor mount
Date: Aug 26, 2007
> Checked my mount today..... my top tubes are about 10 mm shorter than yours so hopefully I've got a good one. Glad to hear it. Do you have any way to measure the angle of the plane defined by the disks at the back of the mounting pins relative to the plane defined by the plates that bolt to the firewall? That (and the angle of your firewall to the upper longerons) are the critical numbers. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: somewhat off topic - Purchasing an incomplete homebuilt
From: "cbaron66" <bruce.lee(at)honeywell.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2007
Just a small note of correction: If the plane/parts meet the qualifications, you might get a repairmans certificate. Unless you complete the necessary schooling and or expeariance and pass all the written, oral and practical tests, you will never be an A&P 8) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131182#131182 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2007
From: alex trent <atrent8(at)cogeco.ca>
Subject: LRI probe
I have made the LRI probe from the data available on the ch601.org site. The profile is not very streamlined and I wonder just how much I can radius it to give a more areodynamic profile with out effecting the accuracy. I am assuming that the 45 degree corner is important but how about the rest of it? alex t. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Non-aviation question about fuel (octane and "knocking")
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Aug 27, 2007
I can really on help on one of your questions. Does mixing different octane fuel "average" the effective octane of each grade? Yes, when you go to a station that has 3 grades look around there are only, in most cases, only two tanks. This is because to make the middle grade the pump mixes premium and unleaded. Have you tried a full tank from another station that uses a different distributor? If the knocking goes away when you do the problem is with their gas if not it is with your car. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131201#131201 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Zenith-List Digest: Purchasing an incomplete homebuilt
Date: Aug 27, 2007
From: <Craig.Spainhower(at)exeloncorp.com>
Bob, The subject was recently addressed, I believe it was in KitPlanes. To meet the rule the plane must be built 51% by amateurs. You will need to have documentation of the previous builders. If you complete the project you can apply for the Repairman certificate. Craig S. N601XS, 601xl lyc 0-235 I looked at CH601HD project, recently advertised here, and have a couple of questions about purchasing a work in progress: 1 - Is it possible to be the A&P for a purchased project? I seem to recall that this honor can be bestowed on the original builder and I wonder if it is applicable to someone who finishes a project. 2 - What must be done to satisfy the FAA that you meet the 51% rule? Thx Bob Percival ----------------------------------------- ************************************************** This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corporation family of Companies. This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Thank You. ************************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2007
From: "Bill Sewell" <billsewell(at)gmail.com>
Subject: N601BZ Fly's!
flight was unintentional, occurring during a high speed taxi test. I had the stick full back as is typical when taxing a conventional gear aircraft and as the aircraft accelerated past 40MPH and approached 50MPH, just as I was about to bring the tail up, the right wheel broke ground. I moved the stick to the right and the left wheel came up and we were flying. I moved the stick to lower the nose into a gentle climb attitude and added right trim to bring the stick back to neutral. I then trimmed the nose up to continue the climb at around 90 MPH, when I had a chance to look, and was at pattern altitude before I knew it. Since the there were clouds at about 2000 feet and since I hadn't intended to fly in the first place, I decided to make one circuit of the pattern and attempt to put the airplane back on the runway at the first opportunity. I made a gentle left turn to cross wind and another to down wind. Once on down wind, I reduced power to 2000 and added a bit more nose up trim. Once past the end of the runway I reduced power to 1500 and began a smooth gradual descent. Another gentle left turn to base and one more to final and before I knew it I was over the end of the runway. I pulled power back to idle as I flared and the propeller stopped just a second before I made a soft 3 point touch down. I rolled out and slowed down and restarted the engine with the starter. My first flight was over and it probably lasted all of 6 minutes. So this is what I learned. First, the TD will take off in a 3 point attitude very easily. The 601XL accelerates very quickly once the throttle is fully open. I had heard about the left wing being heavy and needing right trim from other first flight reports so there was no surprise there. I'm not sure why the propeller stopped over the runway in the flair, the ground idle speed is set to 850 and hasn't been a problem. I realized after landing that I had forgotten to pull carb heat and it was a humid so I suppose there might have been some carb ice but I'm not convinced of that. I will download the EMS data and see if it contains any clue. Even though my first flight was very short, my impression of the 601XL's flight characteristics are that it is very much like a Citabria or even a Cessna and I felt right at home flying it. The landing and taxi characteristics are also very similar to the Citabria that I have done most of my tail wheel flying in. I will be posting some video to my web site in the near future. Just want to thank Zenith Aircraft for a great design and all the other builders that have helped me out. And of course to thank my wife for supporting my hobby and for filming my "high speed taxi tests." Bill Sewell N601BZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com>
Subject: Re: N601BZ Fly's!
Date: Aug 27, 2007
Congratulations Bill ,you have built a beautiful aircraft and did well on your first flight .I have seen this happen before with high speed taxing and it is nice when your plane is prepared for flight even when it is not your intention .Thanks for the help you have given me and as always be safe and enjoy your new toy . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Sewell To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com ; Zenith AC Support Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 12:04 PM Subject: Zenith-List: N601BZ Fly's! The flight was unintentional, occurring during a high speed taxi test. I had the stick full back as is typical when taxing a conventional gear aircraft and as the aircraft accelerated past 40MPH and approached 50MPH, just as I was about to bring the tail up, the right wheel broke ground. I moved the stick to the right and the left wheel came up and we were flying. I moved the stick to lower the nose into a gentle climb attitude and added right trim to bring the stick back to neutral. I then trimmed the nose up to continue the climb at around 90 MPH, when I had a chance to look, and was at pattern altitude before I knew it. Since the there were clouds at about 2000 feet and since I hadn't intended to fly in the first place, I decided to make one circuit of the pattern and attempt to put the airplane back on the runway at the first opportunity. I made a gentle left turn to cross wind and another to down wind. Once on down wind, I reduced power to 2000 and added a bit more nose up trim. Once past the end of the runway I reduced power to 1500 and began a smooth gradual descent. Another gentle left turn to base and one more to final and before I knew it I was over the end of the runway. I pulled power back to idle as I flared and the propeller stopped just a second before I made a soft 3 point touch down. I rolled out and slowed down and restarted the engine with the starter. My first flight was over and it probably lasted all of 6 minutes. So this is what I learned. First, the TD will take off in a 3 point attitude very easily. The 601XL accelerates very quickly once the throttle is fully open. I had heard about the left wing being heavy and needing right trim from other first flight reports so there was no surprise there. I'm not sure why the propeller stopped over the runway in the flair, the ground idle speed is set to 850 and hasn't been a problem. I realized after landing that I had forgotten to pull carb heat and it was a humid so I suppose there might have been some carb ice but I'm not convinced of that. I will download the EMS data and see if it contains any clue. Even though my first flight was very short, my impression of the 601XL's flight characteristics are that it is very much like a Citabria or even a Cessna and I felt right at home flying it. The landing and taxi characteristics are also very similar to the Citabria that I have done most of my tail wheel flying in. I will be posting some video to my web site in the near future. Just want to thank Zenith Aircraft for a great design and all the other builders that have helped me out. And of course to thank my wife for supporting my hobby and for filming my "high speed taxi tests." Bill Sewell N601BZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2007
From: "John Marzulli" <john.marzulli(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: N601BZ Fly's!
Congrats and good luck tracking down the engine gremlins. What engine are you using? -John in Seattle On 8/27/07, Bill Sewell wrote: > > flight was unintentional, occurring during a high speed taxi test. I had > the stick full back as is typical when taxing a conventional gear aircraft > and as the aircraft accelerated past 40MPH and approached 50MPH, just as I > was about to bring the tail up, the right wheel broke ground. I moved > the stick to the right and the left wheel came up and we were flying. I > moved the stick to lower the nose into a gentle climb attitude and added > right trim to bring the stick back to neutral. I then trimmed the nose > up to continue the climb at around 90 MPH, when I had a chance to look, and > was at pattern altitude before I knew it. Since the there were clouds at > about 2000 feet and since I hadn't intended to fly in the first place, I > decided to make one circuit of the pattern and attempt to put the airplane > back on the runway at the first opportunity. I made a gentle left turn > to cross wind and another to down wind. Once on down wind, I reduced > power to 2000 and added a bit more nose up trim. Once past the end of > the runway I reduced power to 1500 and began a smooth gradual descent. Another > gentle left turn to base and one more to final and before I knew it I was > over the end of the runway. I pulled power back to idle as I flared and > the propeller stopped just a second before I made a soft 3 point touch down. > I rolled out and slowed down and restarted the engine with the starter. My > first flight was over and it probably lasted all of 6 minutes. > > > So this is what I learned. First, the TD will take off in a 3 point > attitude very easily. The 601XL accelerates very quickly once the > throttle is fully open. I had heard about the left wing being heavy and > needing right trim from other first flight reports so there was no surprise > there. I'm not sure why the propeller stopped over the runway in the > flair, the ground idle speed is set to 850 and hasn't been a problem. I > realized after landing that I had forgotten to pull carb heat and it was a > humid so I suppose there might have been some carb ice but I'm not convinced > of that. I will download the EMS data and see if it contains any clue. > > > Even though my first flight was very short, my impression of the 601XL's > flight characteristics are that it is very much like a Citabria or even a > Cessna and I felt right at home flying it. The landing and taxi > characteristics are also very similar to the Citabria that I have done most > of my tail wheel flying in. > > > I will be posting some video to my web site in the near future. > > > Just want to thank Zenith Aircraft for a great design and all the other > builders that have helped me out. And of course to thank my wife for > supporting my hobby and for filming my "high speed taxi tests." > > > Bill Sewell > > N601BZ > > * > > > * > > -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -Airplane The Movie ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: N601BZ Fly's!
From: "eddies" <eddie.seve(at)clarity.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2007
A big congratulations Bill, looking forward to seeing your flight video's on your website Eddie Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131237#131237 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net>
Subject: 601XL rear spar risk mitigation
Date: Aug 27, 2007
Gang: I appreciate all the feedback I have gotten on my idea to mitigate the risk of rear spar failures by adding a small strap to the lower spar flange in the area of the aileron pushrod hole. This was discussed in detail at http://members.cox.net/n601ge/drawings/rearspar.html Many people have other ideas, which is why it's called "experimental" aviation! I would like to add some notes: [1] It should be straightforward to inspect the strap doubler on a regular basis for working rivets or cracks. So an additional good characteristic of this type of risk mitigation is that you can use it to get some real data on the hypothetical problem. If people install the strap and report no damage over time (50 hour intervals?), then either there was no problem there or the minimalist fix worked like a charm. If people later report that they are finding evidence of strap fatigue, then we have identified a "real" problem and can work out a "real" fix. [1a] If you install such a strap, you should note it in your builder's log and consider putting an inspection item in your annual checklist - "Visually inspect strap doublers on rear spar lower flange in area of aileron pushrod for any evidence of cracks, fatigue or working rivets." Over the years, as evidence builds, you will gain (or lose) confidence in the design and/or strap. [3] It was brought up to me by one respondent that for scratch builders, there is an option to use a 2-piece rear spar, and that this design has a larger, heavy-duty splice in the same area. If people with that design built and flying can inspect the doubler and report its apparent condition, those would be additional data points. FWIW, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "george may" <gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: N601BZ Fly's!
Date: Aug 27, 2007
Bill Congradulations!! The fun begins------- George May 601XL 912s 147hrs >From: "Bill Sewell" <billsewell(at)gmail.com> >Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com, "Zenith AC Support" >Subject: Zenith-List: N601BZ Fly's! >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:04:46 -0400 > >flight was unintentional, occurring during a high speed taxi test. I had >the stick full back as is typical when taxing a conventional gear aircraft >and as the aircraft accelerated past 40MPH and approached 50MPH, just as I >was about to bring the tail up, the right wheel broke ground. I moved the >stick to the right and the left wheel came up and we were flying. I moved >the stick to lower the nose into a gentle climb attitude and added right >trim to bring the stick back to neutral. I then trimmed the nose up to >continue the climb at around 90 MPH, when I had a chance to look, and was >at >pattern altitude before I knew it. Since the there were clouds at about >2000 feet and since I hadn't intended to fly in the first place, I decided >to make one circuit of the pattern and attempt to put the airplane back on >the runway at the first opportunity. I made a gentle left turn to cross >wind and another to down wind. Once on down wind, I reduced power to 2000 >and added a bit more nose up trim. Once past the end of the runway I >reduced power to 1500 and began a smooth gradual descent. Another gentle >left turn to base and one more to final and before I knew it I was over the >end of the runway. I pulled power back to idle as I flared and the >propeller stopped just a second before I made a soft 3 point touch down. I >rolled out and slowed down and restarted the engine with the starter. My >first flight was over and it probably lasted all of 6 minutes. > > >So this is what I learned. First, the TD will take off in a 3 point >attitude very easily. The 601XL accelerates very quickly once the throttle >is fully open. I had heard about the left wing being heavy and needing >right trim from other first flight reports so there was no surprise there. >I'm >not sure why the propeller stopped over the runway in the flair, the ground >idle speed is set to 850 and hasn't been a problem. I realized after >landing that I had forgotten to pull carb heat and it was a humid so I >suppose there might have been some carb ice but I'm not convinced of that. >I >will download the EMS data and see if it contains any clue. > > >Even though my first flight was very short, my impression of the 601XL's >flight characteristics are that it is very much like a Citabria or even a >Cessna and I felt right at home flying it. The landing and taxi >characteristics are also very similar to the Citabria that I have done most >of my tail wheel flying in. > > >I will be posting some video to my web site in the near future. > > >Just want to thank Zenith Aircraft for a great design and all the other >builders that have helped me out. And of course to thank my wife for >supporting my hobby and for filming my "high speed taxi tests." > > >Bill Sewell > >N601BZ _________________________________________________________________ Booking a flight? Know when to buy with airfare predictions on MSN Travel. http://travel.msn.com/Articles/aboutfarecast.aspx&ocid=T001MSN25A07001 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net>
Subject: Re: N601BZ Fly's!
Date: Aug 27, 2007
Congratulations Bill, I have been following your progress on your website and it has really helped when I run into problems. Great News. Keep Safe Matt Archer www.zodiacxl.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Sewell To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com ; Zenith AC Support Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 12:04 PM Subject: Zenith-List: N601BZ Fly's! The flight was unintentional, occurring during a high speed taxi test. I had the stick full back as is typical when taxing a conventional gear aircraft and as the aircraft accelerated past 40MPH and approached 50MPH, just as I was about to bring the tail up, the right wheel ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: question about fuel related to aviation.
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 27, 2007
Boy Mark, that blue stuff looks better all the time. :D -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131269#131269 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cooling the cockpit
From: "GLJSOJ1" <gljno10(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Aug 27, 2007
SOMETHING THAT I AM TRYING IS PUTTING A HEAT/COOL AIR VENT IN WITH THE HEATER, WHICH IS LOCATED NEAR THE FLOOR OF THE CABIN THIS WAY I CAN HAVE HEAT IN WINTER AND SWITCH IT TO COOL AIR WHEN HOT GLENN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131281#131281 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: chat
From: "Falcon" <crx(at)ubbdev.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2007
Dang, I missed another one. In my defense, wife and I were helping a friend assemble a Taylorcraft L-2, and having way too much fun watching this tube and fabric plane return to life. We'll be certain to catch you all next week. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131283#131283 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: N601BZ Fly's!
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2007
Congrats! You inspire the rest of us. - Pat XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131295#131295 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: N601BZ Fly's!
From: "lgingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Date: Aug 28, 2007
Big congratulations Bill! I didn't even know you got started again after completing the airframe. Can't wait to see the video! ..lance, 210hours -------- Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131303#131303 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: N601BZ Fly's!
From: "GLJSOJ1" <gljno10(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Aug 28, 2007
CAN SOMBODY GIVE ME A LINK TO BILL'S WEBSITE THANKS GLENN -------- 601XL BUILDER ALMOST DONE CHESAPEAKE VA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131312#131312 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: N601BZ Fly's!
Date: Aug 28, 2007
CAN SOMBODY GIVE ME A LINK TO BILL'S WEBSITE THANKS GLENN Links to many builders' web sites, including Bill's, are at the following URL: http://www.ch601.org/Builder_links.htm Jeff D. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: N601BZ Fly's!
Date: Aug 28, 2007
I also drive a Miata. One of the very first ones to come across from the land of the rising sun. No power steering (it's supposed to be a sports car!) No Air conditioning ( just the drop top) No Power anything (I can reach most anything except the outside passenger side mirror) It does have a half decent, for '89, stereo but it gets in the way of enjoying the car. Now if I could only shoe horn in a bigger engine :-)! Now that's out of the way. The Miata has a very small tank. Around ten Gal., 12 Gal. U.S.. If you refill from one of those service stations that have the one hose for all grades of gas places you will no doubt end up pumping a considerable quantity of low octane gas into your car before the good stuff even gets to the nozzle. Lets assume the inside of the hose is around 1.25 in in diameter and it is around 20 feet long to account for some of the plumbing that goes to the overhead connector the hose is attached to. this gives us 93.75 cubic inches or .4 Gal U.S.. If you have a habit of keeping your car full and refill the tank as soon as the needle hits 3/4 then you actually have a lot less high octane gas in your tank. This is important to an engine like the Miata and the 912/Jab or even the TSC'd Lycoming. They will knock like, never mind (PG 13), and you can be sure it isn't good for the engine either. My advice is: Only purchase your high octane gas at service stations where they have dedicated nozzles for each grade of gas or put the first Gal into a separate container to use in your lawn mower. Check to make sure you aren't getting fuel contaminated (no better word) with Ethanol when buying gas for your plane. Personally because of the increase in carbon footprint I won't use Ethanol contaminated fuel in anything. If you want to debate that statement I'll do it off list. Try to buy gas at busy locations. It may cost a few pennies more but the gas gets delivered there more often so it should be fresher. Never add any thing to your gas. A lot of petroleum distillates will eat parts of your engine. I haven't seen MTBE, the agent used to increase octane, for sale any where. But hey, if you can get it. Noel ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: Unhappness is a dead battery
Date: Aug 28, 2007
Members, This message is for those of you who experence long periods between flights in your aircraft. Since I am involved in so many other activities I am one of those who sometimes go for a month to six weeks before I fly my aircraft so I had a problem of the battery going dead or so weak that it would not turn the engine over. I tried to do a prop start one time and found out that with the Jabiru 3300 engine, this is impossible. Anyway I solved my problem with a small charger that stays connected to the battery all the time. I have enclosed a copy of the add from Harbor Freight catalog so you can see the price has been reduced. This trickle charger may be left on the battery all the time but there are some trickle chargers that must be watched because they are manual and will over charge and ruin the battery. My first attempt to send this out was returned by the system as being too large because I scanned the whole page in the Harbor Freight catalog, I then tried to use the URL and that would not work so this is the 4th try and I hope it goes this time. Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2007
From: "David Brooks" <dkbrooks(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Non-aviation question about fuel (octane and "knocking")
I never knew that the pumps blended the gas on demand. I never really needed to use anything other than super cheap stuff before I started playing around with turbos and superchargers (effectively high compression engines). I think you are right about this station's gas being 'bad'. What started me down this path was filling up at a different station and seeing all my worries go away. I suppose the good news is that I don't have to tear down my engine to fix my problem. The bad news is that I no longer have an excuse to tear down the engine and install some more new shiny go-fast parts. I suppose I will just have to admit the fact that I want to do it because I can and get on with it. Thanks for the info and suggestion. I love this list. Dave On 8/27/07, Gig Giacona wrote: > > wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> > > I can really on help on one of your questions. > > Does mixing different octane fuel "average" the effective octane of each > grade? > > Yes, when you go to a station that has 3 grades look around there are > only, in most cases, only two tanks. This is because to make the middle > grade the pump mixes premium and unleaded. > > Have you tried a full tank from another station that uses a different > distributor? If the knocking goes away when you do the problem is with their > gas if not it is with your car. > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131201#131201 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601XL rear spar risk mitigation
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Aug 28, 2007
Not a bad idea. A better arrangement would have been to place an entire channel inside the spar to span that area like the splice plate that's in there for when the rear spar is made ouut of two spars butted together. Check with Mark Townsend on that. Easy enough to make and even replace where you have that strap and you'll probably like the idea and be more comfortable with it when you see it. What you're really trying to do it beef up the circumference of that hole, albeit mostly at the bottom. A plate that spans the entire hole is more "per the book" than a strap. Just my two cents. [quote="a.s.elliott(at)cox.net"]Gang: I appreciate all the feedback I have gotten on my idea to mitigate the risk of rear spar failures by adding a small strap to the lower spar flange in the area of the aileron pushrod hole. This was discussed in detail at http://members.cox.net/n601ge/drawings/rearspar.html (http://members.cox.net/n601ge/drawings/rearspar.html) Many people have other ideas, which is why it's called "experimental" aviation! I would like to add some notes: [1] It should be straightforward to inspect the strap doubler on a regular basis for working rivets or cracks. So an additional good characteristic of this type of risk mitigation is that you can use it to get some real data on the hypothetical problem. If people install the strap and report no damage over time (50 hour intervals?), then either there was no problem there or the minimalist fix worked like a charm. If people later report that they are finding evidence of strap fatigue, then we have identified a "real" problem and can work out a "real" fix. [1a] If you install such a strap, you should note it in your builder's log and consider putting an inspection item in your annual checklist - "Visually inspect strap doublers on rear spar lower flange in area of aileron pushrod for any evidence of cracks, fatigue or working rivets." Over the years, as evidence builds, you will gain (or lose) confidence in the design and/or strap. [3] It was brought up to me by one respondent that for scratch builders, there is an option to use a 2-piece rear spar, and that this design has a larger, heavy-duty splice in the same area. If people with that design built and flying can inspect the doubler and report its apparent condition, those would be additional data points. FWIW, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131333#131333 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Painting Layout
Hey Gang, I am about to start some outside painting on my XL. I will need to do some marking on the aluminum to get the masking accurately placed. I know that a lead (graphite)pencil is a no-no; but what is the preferred tool? I am hesitant to use a Sharpie, because whatever is used to remove it may also remove paint. I have considered a PaperMate Flare or Pentel felt tip pin, mainly because the ink is water soluble. Any suggestions? Jay in Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: N601BZ Fly's!
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Aug 28, 2007
Congrats on the first flight. But this should be a reminder to all. When doing fast taxi testing, BE PREPARED TO FLY. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131346#131346 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Non-aviation question about fuel (octane and "knocking")
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Aug 28, 2007
Shiny, go fast parts in a Miata. How cute. :) dkbrooks(at)gmail.com wrote: > I never knew that the pumps blended the gas on demand. I never really needed to use anything other than super cheap stuff before I started playing around with turbos and superchargers (effectively high compression engines). > > I think you are right about this station's gas being 'bad'. What started me down this path was filling up at a different station and seeing all my worries go away. I suppose the good news is that I don't have to tear down my engine to fix my problem. The bad news is that I no longer have an excuse to tear down the engine and install some more new shiny go-fast parts. I suppose I will just have to admit the fact that I want to do it because I can and get on with it. > > Thanks for the info and suggestion. I love this list. > > Dave > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131349#131349 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: question about fuel related to aviation.
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Aug 28, 2007
Yea, there is. WW just spent some time doing it and wasn't happy with the results. ashontz wrote: > > > I'm wondering if there's some way (I'm sure there is) to hook a fuel injector rail up to Corvair engine. I may try that when I get to that point. > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131351#131351 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Painting Layout
Hi Jay, I think you can use the Sharpie to mark your paint limits. You might need to wait a couple of days for the paint to harden before removing the Sharpie marks, but the paint should not be a problem once it is hardened. My understanding is that "Enamel" paints are not subject to solvent destruction after dry. Lacquer paints are indeed always limited in their resistance to solvent. I also believe all the paints you are likely to use on your plane will indeed be enamels. You might want to conduct some tests to determine how long to let the paint dry before attacking the marks with solvent. Indeed, I might be wrong about all this. Paul XL fuselage At 07:24 AM 8/28/2007, you wrote: > >Hey Gang, > >I am about to start some outside painting on my XL. I will need to >do some marking on the aluminum to get the masking accurately >placed. I know that a lead (graphite)pencil is a no-no; but what is >the preferred tool? I am hesitant to use a Sharpie, because >whatever is used to remove it may also remove paint. I have >considered a PaperMate Flare or Pentel felt tip pin, mainly because >the ink is water soluble. Any suggestions? > >Jay in Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Unhappness is a dead battery
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: Aug 28, 2007
I do the same thing with my motorcycle in the winter. In my area, there are enough periods to ride during winter months that I do not winterize the bike. There are, though, enough cold snaps to keep you from riding for a month or so. I have the $40 Battery Tender brand that monitors the voltage and only trickle charges when needed. Has worked well for three winters now on the same battery. I hear that some t-hangers in my area do not have electrical power so I have been thinking about solar alternatives. But that can all wait. I need to finish the airplane first. -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done, engine next. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131388#131388 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Unhappness is a dead battery
I use a different brand of battery minder in my ultralight. I hard wired a pigtail plug to the battery. The pigtail plug is sort of like a two wire version of a trailer light plug. I bought that at Radio Shack and it is installed such that the + terminal can't accidently reach ground and drain the battery. Everytime I put the plane up in the hangar, the last action is to plug in the battery minder and I never arrive to a dead battery. I too, have breaks in my flying access so it is a must for me. Dred ---- robert stone wrote: > Members, > This message is for those of you who experence long periods between flights in your aircraft. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GLENN JOHNSON <gljno10(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Painting Layout
Date: Aug 28, 2007
I HAVEN'T PAINTED YET, BUT I WILL TRY USING PAINTERS TAPE UNTIL I GET IT L IKE I WANT IT. IT FLEXES WELL AND SHOULDN'T PULL PAINT OFF. I USE THE BLU E FROM SCOTCH GLENN> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:24:53 -0400> From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Zenith-List: Painting Layout> > --> Zen ith-List message posted by: Jaybannist(at)cs.com> > Hey Gang,> > I am about to start some outside painting on my XL. I will need to do some marking on th e aluminum to get the masking accurately placed. I know that a lead (graphi te)pencil is a no-no; but what is the preferred tool? I am hesitant to use a Sharpie, because whatever is used to remove it may also remove paint. I h ave considered a PaperMate Flare or Pentel felt tip pin, mainly because the =======> > > _________________________________________________________________ Learn. Laugh. Share. Reallivemoms is right place! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2007
From: Jean-Paul Roy <royjp(at)yahoo.ca>
Subject: Unhappness is a dead battery
Tracy, as the picture tell, this not a trickle charger but a float charger (two different beasts) The float charger will do the job whereas the trickle one will ruin your battery in about a year. Don't ask me how I know. Too bad Harbor Freight don't deliver in Canada. Jean-Paul 701 wings robert stone a crit : Members, This message is for those of you who experence long periods between flights in your aircraft. Since I am involved in so many other activities I am one of those who sometimes go for a month to six weeks before I fly my aircraft so I had a problem of the battery going dead or so weak that it would not turn the engine over. I tried to do a prop start one time and found out that with the Jabiru 3300 engine, this is impossible. Anyway I solved my problem with a small charger that stays connected to the battery all the time. I have enclosed a copy of the add from Harbor Freight catalog so you can see the price has been reduced. This trickle charger may be left on the battery all the time but there are some trickle chargers that must be watched because they are manual and will over charge and ruin the battery. My first attempt to send this out was returned by the system as being too large because I scanned the whole page in the Harbor Freight catalog, I then tried to use the URL and that would not work so this is the 4th try and I hope it goes this time. Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 --------------------------------- Combattez les mchants pourriels... Le filtre SpamGuard vous aide lutter efficacement contre les pourriels sur le Tout-nouveau Yahoo! Courriel ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2007
From: Jean-Paul Roy <royjp(at)yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: Painting Layout
Hello Jay. How about using a little piece of masking tape temporiraly applied until you have the proper tape in place. Hope this helps Jean-Paul Paul Mulwitz a crit : Hi Jay, I think you can use the Sharpie to mark your paint limits. You might need to wait a couple of days for the paint to harden before removing the Sharpie marks, but the paint should not be a problem once it is hardened. My understanding is that "Enamel" paints are not subject to solvent destruction after dry. Lacquer paints are indeed always limited in their resistance to solvent. I also believe all the paints you are likely to use on your plane will indeed be enamels. You might want to conduct some tests to determine how long to let the paint dry before attacking the marks with solvent. Indeed, I might be wrong about all this. Paul XL fuselage At 07:24 AM 8/28/2007, you wrote: > >Hey Gang, > >I am about to start some outside painting on my XL. I will need to >do some marking on the aluminum to get the masking accurately >placed. I know that a lead (graphite)pencil is a no-no; but what is >the preferred tool? I am hesitant to use a Sharpie, because >whatever is used to remove it may also remove paint. I have >considered a PaperMate Flare or Pentel felt tip pin, mainly because >the ink is water soluble. Any suggestions? > >Jay in Dallas --------------------------------- Dcouvrez ce qui fait jaser les gens ! Visitez les groupes de l'heure sur Yahoo! Qubec Groupes. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2007
From: Leo Gates <leo(at)zuehlfield.com>
Subject: Re: Unhappness is a dead battery
List, I use the same float charger as Robert Stone. Three years now. I bought a 1/4" Phone Jack and Plug from Rat Shack. My battery is mounted behind the passenger seat so I mounted the Phone Jack on the side of the fuselage about 6 inches above the trailing edge of the wing. Wired the Phone Plug to the float charger. I leave it plugged in all the time - except in-flight. (:-) Leo Gates N601Z ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Painting Layout
Don't use the blue or the purple painter's tape to do your actual masking on the plane. It will leak paint at places no matter how hard you try to stop it. That stuff only works reasonably for latex paints in my experience. Use that blue stuff to mark where the next color will be. Then position real masking tape next to the painter's tape using it as a guide. Once the masking tape is in place, the painter's tape is removed and the painting continues. That way you have the ease of placement and removal offered by the blue stuff to set the design then the superioir sealing of regular masking tape when you are painting. Dred ---- GLENN JOHNSON wrote: > > I HAVEN'T PAINTED YET, BUT I WILL TRY USING PAINTERS TAPE UNTIL I GET IT LIKE I WANT IT. IT FLEXES WELL AND SHOULDN'T PULL PAINT OFF. I USE THE BLUE FROM SCOTCH ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: LRI probe
Date: Aug 28, 2007
From: <Craig.Spainhower(at)exeloncorp.com>
Last year I saw a commercial version of the LRI probe at Oshkosh. As I remember the probe was streamlined from ~1" from the working end up to the mounting hole. If I remember correctly the "kit" with probe, gauge and tubing was $400 - $500. Craig S. N601XS, 601xl lyc 0-235 I have made the LRI probe from the data available on the ch601.org site. The profile is not very streamlined and I wonder just how much I can radius it to give a more areodynamic profile with out effecting the accuracy. I am assuming that the 45 degree corner is important but how about the rest of it? alex t. ----------------------------------------- ************************************************** This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corporation family of Companies. This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Thank You. ************************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2007
From: Michael Hilderbrand <m_hilderbrand(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: LRI probe
http://www.liftreserve.com/=0A=0AHere is the one I am buying. =0A =0AMichae l Hilderbrand=0ADerby, Kansas=0AHttp://www.kansasflying.com=0A=0A=0A=0A---- - Original Message ----=0AFrom: "Craig.Spainhower(at)exeloncorp.com" <Craig.Sp ainhower(at)exeloncorp.com>=0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, A ugust 28, 2007 2:34:51 PM=0ASubject: RE: Zenith-List: LRI probe=0A=0A=0A--> Zenith-List message posted by: =0A=0ALast year I saw a commercial version of the LRI probe at Oshkosh. As I remember the probe was streamlined from ~1" from the working end up to the mounting hole. If I remember correctly the "kit" with probe, gauge and tubing was $ 400 - $500.=0A=0ACraig S.=0AN601XS, 601xl lyc 0-235=0A=0A=0AI have made the LRI probe from the data available on the ch601.org =0Asite. The profile is not very streamlined and I wonder just how much I =0Acan radius it to give a more areodynamic profile with out effecting the =0Aaccuracy. I am assu ming that the 45 degree corner is important but how =0Aabout the rest of it ?=0A =0A alex t.=0A=0A--------- --------------------------------=0A**************************************** **********=0AThis e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon=0ACo rporation proprietary information, which is privileged,=0Aconfidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon=0ACorporation family of Compan ies.=0AThis e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or=0Aen tity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended=0Arecipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any=0Adissemination, distribution , copying, or action taken in relation=0Ato the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly=0Aprohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail=0Ain error, please notify the sender immediately and p ermanently=0Adelete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printo ut.=0AThank You.=0A**************************************************=0A=0A = ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Burger and a chat
From: "Wingrider" <rwhitt3(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Aug 28, 2007
I'm interested if I'm not traveling also. Couldn't make the last one hopefully I can this time. -------- Rich Whittington Tullahoma, TN Zenith 601HDS Under Construction Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131478#131478 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2007
From: Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com>
Subject: HDS nose gear bottom attachment to fuselage - sheared rivets
Just to mention a maintenance issue I recently found. This was on a 601 HDS with 450 engine hours (vs. fewer flight hours). The ramps on which the nose gear steering rod rests, appear to attach to the U-channel that runs up the firewall, with a bolt and (I think) an A5 rivet on each side. On both sides, the A5 was found at an annual inspection to be sheared off. The ca. 1995 kit was from an era when everything was steel on steel, with no nylon in the gear slide assemblies. However, this aircraft was built with a nylon block below the strap that is bolted under the fuselage, which holds the nose gear tube. A couple of bolts connecting the strap to the fuselage appear slightly loose, something I'm now looking into. They're in the first row aft of the firewall, as if the strap were getting bent up and down, more likely once those rivets sheared. (Even in the small version of the photo attached, one bolt head appears to not be flush with the strap.) It might be possible to replace the rivets with bolts, but there is limited space on the inside of the U-channel because of other bolts coming up vertically in that area. Clearly there's some stress on the area. The aircraft flies mainly off pavement but from time to time uses a grass runway, and we know how stiff the bungee gear system is. Peter Chapman Toronto, ON 601 HDS / 912 / C-GZDC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LRM" <lrm(at)skyhawg.com>
Subject: No slats
Date: Aug 28, 2007
After careful consideration, I have decided to build my new 701 without slats and with vgs and longer wings. The slats are already built by the previous owner. I have to admit they are not workmanship up to my standards but they are ok and as good as most. They are now for sale with brackets, real cheap. Pick up only. E-mail me with an offer I can't refuse. I'm talking about, like almost take them off my hands. Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2007
From: Don Mountain <mountain4don(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Firewall Engine Mounting Nuts
I am working on the firewall and engine mounts through the firewall on my 601 XL, and found the plans call for AN 365-624 Self Locking nuts for the engine mounts on the firewall. These are the low temperature type with the plastic self-locking ring in them. I was wondering how they were holding up on the finished planes and if there was any trouble with them. Are they working loose at all? These are supposed to be limited to a 250 degree environment. And I am not sure the back of the engine won't produce heat in that range. How many have switched these firewall engine mounting nuts to the High Temperature type AN 363-624 that look like castle nuts that have been pinched for the self locking feature? Or are people drilling the mounting bolts through the firewall and putting castle nuts and cotter pins through them to lock them on? Don Mountain --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 28, 2007
Subject: Re: No slats
OH, NO not you too Larry!!!!!!! Sorry I couldn't resist, just kidding. Bob Spudis do not archive After careful consideration, I have decided to build my new 701 without slats and with vgs and longer wings. The slats are already built by the previous owner. Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Painting Layout
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 28, 2007
I have seen this done. Find 1/8" wide masking tape for doing the complex shapes. OR use 3/4" tape over the joint, mark the tape, cut with an exatco knife and lift the side you don't want. Just some thoughts, -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131499#131499 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon" <cscsail(at)gmavt.net>
Subject: Re: Painting Layout
Date: Aug 29, 2007
Use 3M fineline Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: GLENN JOHNSON To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:34 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Painting Layout I HAVEN'T PAINTED YET, BUT I WILL TRY USING PAINTERS TAPE UNTIL I GET IT LIKE I WANT IT. IT FLEXES WELL AND SHOULDN'T PULL PAINT OFF. I USE THE BLUE FROM SCOTCH GLENN > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:24:53 -0400 > From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Painting Layout > > > Hey Gang, > > I am about to start some outside painting on my XL. I will need to do some marking on the aluminum to get the masking accurately placed. I know that a lead (graphite)pencil is a no-no; but what is the preferred tool? I am hesitant to use a Sharpie, because whatever is used to remove it may also remove paint. I have considered a PaperMate Flare or Pentel felt tip pin, mainly because the ink is water soluble. Any suggestions? > > Jay in Dallas> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- New home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "george may" <gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Firewall Engine Mounting Nuts
Date: Aug 29, 2007
Don I had the same concerns when Ifirst saw the design, however, I decided to go with the specified nuts. Also checked the factory plane and that is what they used. I have 145 hours on my 601 and nothing has loosened up. The areas where these nuts are used does not see much heat George May 601XL 912s 145hrs >From: Don Mountain <mountain4don(at)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >To: Zenith >Subject: Zenith-List: Firewall Engine Mounting Nuts >Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:38:57 -0700 (PDT) > >I am working on the firewall and engine mounts through the firewall on my >601 XL, and found the plans call for AN 365-624 Self Locking nuts for the >engine mounts on the firewall. These are the low temperature type with the >plastic self-locking ring in them. I was wondering how they were holding >up on the finished planes and if there was any trouble with them. Are they >working loose at all? These are supposed to be limited to a 250 degree >environment. And I am not sure the back of the engine won't produce heat >in that range. > >How many have switched these firewall engine mounting nuts to the High >Temperature type AN 363-624 that look like castle nuts that have been >pinched for the self locking feature? Or are people drilling the mounting >bolts through the firewall and putting castle nuts and cotter pins through >them to lock them on? > > >Don Mountain > > >--------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry Hey <jerryhey(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: No slats
Date: Aug 29, 2007
Hi Larry, I must have missed something in the VG/slat discussion. Why are you increasing the wing span? Most reports I am aware of, the standard wing was used. Jerry On Aug 28, 2007, at 10:22 PM, LRM wrote: > After careful consideration, I have decided to build my new 701 > without slats and with vgs and longer wings. The slats are already > built by the previous owner. I have to admit they are not > workmanship up to my standards but they are ok and as good as > most. They are now for sale with brackets, real cheap. Pick up > only. E-mail me with an offer I can't refuse. I'm talking about, > like almost take them off my hands. > Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List_- > ============================================================ _- > forums.matronics.com_- > =========================================================== > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Firewall Engine Mounting Nuts
Date: Aug 29, 2007
Don, Why not just buy the required amount of all steel hot section lock nuts from Aircraft Spruce and use them. The cold section plastic nuts may do just as well but with all steel, you would have peace of mind. Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Mountain To: Zenith Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:38 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Firewall Engine Mounting Nuts I am working on the firewall and engine mounts through the firewall on my 601 XL, and found the plans call for AN 365-624 Self Locking nuts for the engine mounts on the firewall. These are the low temperature type with the plastic self-locking ring in them. I was wondering how they were holding up on the finished planes and if there was any trouble with them. Are they working loose at all? These are supposed to be limited to a 250 degree environment. And I am not sure the back of the engine won't produce heat in that range. How many have switched these firewall engine mounting nuts to the High Temperature type AN 363-624 that look like castle nuts that have been pinched for the self locking feature? Or are people drilling the mounting bolts through the firewall and putting castle nuts and cotter pins through them to lock them on? Don Mountain ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Re: Painting Layout
Gordon, Thanks for the suggestion. Still don't have an engine. - Jay "Gordon" wrote: >Use 3M fineline >Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2007
From: "Kevin L. Rupert" <klr12(at)psu.edu>
Subject: Mount Bolts
Don, Firewall forward gets friction locks, firewall aft gets fiber locks, But don't take my word for it. Here it is straight from the horse's mouth. Kevin R. XL/C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LRM" <lrm(at)skyhawg.com>
Subject: Re: No slats
Date: Aug 29, 2007
Check out the longer wing page. http://www.stolspeed.com/content.php?id=48, Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Hey To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com ; LRM Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:27 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: No slats Hi Larry, I must have missed something in the VG/slat discussion. Why are you increasing the wing span? Most reports I am aware of, the standard wing was used. Jerry On Aug 28, 2007, at 10:22 PM, LRM wrote: After careful consideration, I have decided to build my new 701 without slats and with vgs and longer wings. The slats are already built by the previous owner. I have to admit they are not workmanship up to my standards but they are ok and as good as most. They are now for sale with brackets, real cheap. Pick up only. E-mail me with an offer I can't refuse. I'm talking about, like almost take them off my hands. Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L - The Zenith-List Email Forum class="Apple-converted-space"> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space"> --> http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Looking for a canopy cover
From: "alex_01" <zoechling(at)gmx.de>
Date: Aug 29, 2007
looking for a canopy cover when plane 601xl is parked outside during stops on my trips. should be light and easy to install and hopefully not too expensive thank you Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131534#131534 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phil Maxson <pmaxpmax(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Looking for a canopy cover
Date: Aug 29, 2007
I got mine from Bruce's Custom Covers : http://aircraftcovers.com/ My plan e is outside all the time and the cover has held up nicely to two summers a nd one winter. It still looks brand new. I have a friend, Jim Norton on t his list, who made me wing covers too, and those have yet to be tested over the winter. There was also a person who designed their own from a table cloth. Informa tion in the archives.Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey g for a canopy cover when plane 601xl is parked outside during stops on my trips.> should be light and easy to install and hopefully not too expensive > thank you _________________________________________________________________ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Firewall Engine Mounting Nuts
The first bit of useful info would be the the lack of any discussion following the actual observation of a problem. So, it probably hasn't been an issue on any of the flying 601XLs so far. Second, given the cylinder head temps and the necessity for the ambient under cowl temperature to be significantly less, the air temp under the cowl should not be higher than 250 F. If it does get to that temperature very often or for very long periods, we'll probably have trouble with the fiberglass long before the bolts get loose. If it feels more secure to you the AN 363-624 high heat, all metal style of locknut would not be an expensive add-on. Reversing the bolt head to the forward side and the nut to the cockpit side is another option but likely to be pointless due to the thermal conduction of the bolt itself. Dred ---- Don Mountain wrote: > I am working on the firewall and engine mounts through the firewall on my 601 XL, and found the plans call for AN 365-624 Self Locking nuts for the engine mounts on the firewall. These are the low temperature type with the plastic self-locking ring in them. I was wondering how they were holding up on the finished planes and if there was any trouble with them. Are they working loose at all? These are supposed to be limited to a 250 degree environment. And I am not sure the back of the engine won't produce heat in that range. > > How many have switched these firewall engine mounting nuts to the High Temperature type AN 363-624 that look like castle nuts that have been pinched for the self locking feature? Or are people drilling the mounting bolts through the firewall and putting castle nuts and cotter pins through them to lock them on? > > > Don Mountain > > > --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Painting Layout
Are you sure that you want to cut through the tape with an exacto knife and amost certainly score the aluminum skin underneath it? That sounds dangerous to me. Did I miss something there? Dred ---- Ron Lendon wrote: > > I have seen this done. Find 1/8" wide masking tape for doing the complex shapes. > > OR use 3/4" tape over the joint, mark the tape, cut with an exatco knife and lift the side you don't want. > > Just some thoughts, > > -------- > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) > http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131499#131499 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: HDS nose gear bottom attachment to fuselage - sheared
rivets Hi Peter, The segment shown with the rivet head broken off should have had a bolt. That's what the latest revision of the plans require. It is crowded with the other bolt heads sticking up, but it can be done. I'm surprised to see that a rivet held up so long in that area. See link, http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/stratstops.gif Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Peter Chapman wrote: > > Just to mention a maintenance issue I recently found. > > This was on a 601 HDS with 450 engine hours (vs. fewer flight hours). > > The ramps on which the nose gear steering rod rests, appear to attach > to the U-channel that runs up the firewall, with a bolt and (I think) > an A5 rivet on each side. > > On both sides, the A5 was found at an annual inspection to be sheared > off. > > The ca. 1995 kit was from an era when everything was steel on steel, > with no nylon in the gear slide assemblies. However, this aircraft was > built with a nylon block below the strap that is bolted under the > fuselage, which holds the nose gear tube. A couple of bolts connecting > the strap to the fuselage appear slightly loose, something I'm now > looking into. They're in the first row aft of the firewall, as if the > strap were getting bent up and down, more likely once those rivets > sheared. (Even in the small version of the photo attached, one bolt > head appears to not be flush with the strap.) > > It might be possible to replace the rivets with bolts, but there is > limited space on the inside of the U-channel because of other bolts > coming up vertically in that area. > > Clearly there's some stress on the area. The aircraft flies mainly off > pavement but from time to time uses a grass runway, and we know how > stiff the bungee gear system is. > > > Peter Chapman > Toronto, ON 601 HDS / 912 / C-GZDC > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: Firewall Engine Mounting Nuts
Don, It's rather unlikely you'll see 225 degrees at the firewall mount bolts unless you route your exhaust very near them. I used regular castle nuts and drilled the bolts, but that leaves you with the necessity of playing with washers to get the cotter hole to align at the torque you want. I'd not recommend the pinched type castle nut because it will damage the bolts in repeated removal and replacement. If you have doubts with the low temp nuts, go with the standard castle type. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Don Mountain wrote: > I am working on the firewall and engine mounts through the firewall on > my 601 XL, and found the plans call for AN 365-624 Self Locking nuts > for the engine mounts on the firewall. These are the low temperature > type with the plastic self-locking ring in them. I was wondering how > they were holding up on the finished planes and if there was any > trouble with them. Are they working loose at all? These are supposed > to be limited to a 250 degree environment. And I am not sure the back > of the engine won't produce heat in that range. > > How many have switched these firewall engine mounting nuts to the High > Temperature type AN 363-624 that look like castle nuts that have been > pinched for the self locking feature? Or are people drilling the > mounting bolts through the firewall and putting castle nuts and cotter > pins through them to lock them on? > > > Don Mountain > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2007
From: Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com>
Subject: Re: HDS nose gear bottom attachment to fuselage - sheared
rivets At 10:13 29-08-07, you wrote: >The segment shown with the rivet head broken off should have had a >bolt. That's what the latest revision >of the plans require. Sounds good to me! Thanks. (There are a surprising number of plans drawings online these days, as well as lists of revisions changes, but one doesn't always know everything that's been upgraded over the years.) Peter Chapman Toronto, ON ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Unhappness is a dead battery
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Aug 29, 2007
Did you notice this at the end of the page? Not for use with Aviation Specific batteries. See models 12248-AA and 24041-AA aviation specific charger-maintainer-desulphator-conditioners. [quote="don_lewis(at)swbell.net"]See this http://www.vdcelectronics.com/batteryminder_12117.htm (http://www.vdcelectronics.com/batteryminder_12117.htm) I think VDC makes the best... I have 4 of them... You can catch them on sale for $ 40- $50... Worth every penny.... Don n FTW quote] -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131569#131569 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2007
From: "Kevin L. Rupert" <klr12(at)psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Mount Bolts
Bryan, I agree that the nuts will never see the 250 degrees, but I work on planes for a living and in our shop, friction lock go in the engine compartment. I don't like questions from the FAA inspector, when he comes around. Kevin R. XL/C ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: No slats
From: "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 29, 2007
I've been working on my Ch801 for some time now, and I decided to convert it to a low wing, because I like bubble canopies. I chose also to remove the slats because I wanted more speed. I then converted it to a laminar flow airfoil. After that I decided in order to reduce drag a composite wing was just the ticket. Decided the fueslage was kind of boxy so I reshaped it, and converted it to a sexy composite based shape. Oh, then of course to further reduce drag I converted the gear to retractable. But darnit all, if I had only known that pulling the slats was considered by the FAA to be a Major change, and I violated my airworthiness cert by NOT getting it reinspected ... I wouldn't have gotten busted! I guess I should have just bought a Lancair to begin with ... Regards, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131576#131576 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 29, 2007
Subject: Re: HDS nose gear bottom attachment to fuselage - sheared
rivets When was the drawing 6-F-10 rev. Mine is dated 09-03 and has only one bolt on each side at this location. These bolts secure the (one for each 6-F-10-1) Nose Gear Stops to the 6-F-9-4 Center Firewall Stiffener. How important is adding the second bolt? If the second bolt is required then I will have to replace the Center Firewall Stiffener or just add the new bolts with less then desired spacing. Jerry of GA http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Firewall Engine Mounting Nuts
Date: Aug 29, 2007
I did not use the nylock nuts in the XL kit but instead used the hi-temp nuts supplied in the FWF kit from Jabiru USA. I torque-striped the nuts. After checking the torque at 50 hrs, I have an annual requirement to check the torque on the nuts. I used 300 inch-lbs. I also check the torque whenever I remove the fwd top skin, which I installed to be removable. As this area is probably subjected to cyclic loading, I would not recommend using castle nuts with cotter pins. I remember seeing pictures of a failure of one of the mount bolts a few years ago There was what appeared to be a lot of fretting corrosion in the area leading me to suspect loss of torque contributed to the failure. Fair winds, VMC and CAVU to all Tony Graziano XL/Jab3300; N493TG; 280 hrs. -------------- Firewall Engine Mounting Nuts From: Don Mountain (mountain4don(at)yahoo.com) Date: Tue Aug 28 - 7:41 PM I am working on the firewall and engine mounts through the firewall on my 601 XL, and found the plans call for AN 365-624 Self Locking nuts for the engine mounts on the firewall. These are the low temperature type with the plastic self-locking ring in them. I was wondering how they were holding up on the finished planes and if there was any trouble with them. Are they working loose at all? These are supposed to be limited to a 250 degree environment. And I am not sure the back of the engine won't produce heat in that range. How many have switched these firewall engine mounting nuts to the High Temperature type AN 363-624 that look like castle nuts that have been pinched for the self locking feature? Or are people drilling the mounting bolts through the firewall and putting castle nuts and cotter pins through them to lock them on? Don Mountain From: Don Mountain (mountain4don(at)yahoo.com) Date: Tue Aug 28 - 7:41 PM I am working on the firewall and engine mounts through the firewall on my 601 XL, and found the plans call for AN 365-624 Self Locking nuts for the engine mounts on the firewall. These are the low temperature type with the plastic self-locking ring in them. I was wondering how they were holding up on the finished planes and if there was any trouble with them. Are they working loose at all? These are supposed to be limited to a 250 degree environment. And I am not sure the back of the engine won't produce heat in that range. How many have switched these firewall engine mounting nuts to the High Temperature type AN 363-624 that look like castle nuts that have been pinched for the self locking feature? Or are people drilling the mounting bolts through the firewall and putting castle nuts and cotter pins through them to lock them on? Don Mountain ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry Hey <jerryhey(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: No slats
Date: Aug 29, 2007
Thanks for that reference. I had been on the site several times but messed that page somehow. JG's reasoning based on real world experience is compelling. I too am leaning toward eliminating the slats and installing VGs and maybe a longer wing too to complete the package. I wish that someone in addition to JG had already done the mods and could confirm the performance figures he is claiming. I was going to start with the wings next week but will hold off a bit. Jerry On Aug 29, 2007, at 8:59 AM, LRM wrote: > Check out the longer wing page. http://www.stolspeed.com/ > content.php?id=48, Larry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jerry Hey > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com ; LRM > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:27 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: No slats > > Hi Larry, I must have missed something in the VG/slat discussion. > Why are you increasing the wing span? Most reports I am aware of, > the standard wing was used. Jerry > > > On Aug 28, 2007, at 10:22 PM, LRM wrote: > >> After careful consideration, I have decided to build my new 701 >> without slats and with vgs and longer wings. The slats are >> already built by the previous owner. I have to admit they are not >> workmanship up to my standards but they are ok and as good as >> most. They are now for sale with brackets, real cheap. Pick up >> only. E-mail me with an offer I can't refuse. I'm talking about, >> like almost take them off my hands. >> Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L >> >> - The Zenith-List Email Forum class="Apple-converted- >> space"> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith- >> List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple- >> converted-space"> --> http://forums.matronics.com >> > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http:// > www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http:// > forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List_- > ============================================================ _- > forums.matronics.com_- > =========================================================== > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: WICKS 10% OFF
From: "GLJSOJ1" <gljno10(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Aug 29, 2007
JUST GOT THIS FROM WICKS A/C September Is Customer Appreciation Month 10% OFF From: info(at)wicksaircraft.com Sent: Tue 8/28/07 3:37 PM Security scan upon download ATT00001 (1.5 KB) http://www.wicksaircraft.com/customer_ml/view.php?mi=41481&nl=9 Type your text after the link above. -------- 601XL BUILDER ALMOST DONE CHESAPEAKE VA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131596#131596 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2007
From: "Kevin L. Rupert" <klr12(at)psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Mount Bolts
Randy, I'd say you have an aftermarket maintenance manual. All my TCM manuals show either friction lock, running nut with star lock washer, running nut with palnut, or castle nut with cotter pin. I have installed a lot of starters and generators on Continentals in my time and I have never used a fiber lock on any of them. Maybe your FSDO will buy fiber locks in the engine compartment, Mine won't, and as I said before I don't argue with the FAA. They always win. Kevin R. XL/C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Malcolm Hunt" <malcolmhunt(at)mha1.fsbusiness.co.uk>
Subject: Re: 601XL Rear Spar Reinforcement Idea
Date: Aug 29, 2007
Hi Jay Where did you get the information on the 32mm dia hole from? I have looked up the revisions to the drawings and cannot see it. Has anyone on the list made the spar cap angles (6W3-6&7) in two pieces to bend them on a 8' brake? I have e-mailed Zenair technical people asking their veiws without a reply. I wonder if they are still considering the implication for the load test of the wing as noted in this months newsletter? Best regards Malcolm Hunt CH601XL Plans Builder in England ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jaybannist(at)cs.com> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:30 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL Rear Spar Reinforcement Idea > > Andy, > > Your reinforcing looks reasonable. Just don't forget that, on the inboard > part of this reinforced area, the flap hinge will go between the bottom > skin and the bottom flange of the rear spar. And that hinge won't be > riveted until much later. > > On my particular airplane, the drawings called for a 38mm hole, 20mm from > the bottom of the bottom flange. That leaves less than 1mm between the > hole and the flange. The hole was later changed to a 32mm dia., leaving > about a 4mm clearance; which I suspect is what you have. I might measure > the clearance between the flange and the control rod end to see if I can > partially cover the hole with the reinforcing angle. > > Instead of trimming the vertical leg fo the doubler angle, I think I would > only notch it (at the hole) and put some A4 rivets into the web of the > spar to help resist buckling of the doubler angle. > > Just my 2 cents worth. > > Jay > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2007
From: Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com>
Subject: tuft test video - 601 HDS
I finally got around to doing a little video of some tuft testing on the 601 HDS I fly, filmed with a 0.3 wide angle lens on the camcorder. It is posted online at http://pcxstuff.blip.tv/file/356716/ and can also be downloaded as a 13MB .wmv file. It's not a particularly clear video. It was an unprofessional test, a flight with no detailed plan, on a dark, turbulent day, quickly done before the weather got any worse. But I haven't seen anything better, so this will have to do until I get around to trying again. In its nearly 2 minutes, the video basically shows slow flight, throttled back, with a few approaches down to incipient stalls. Audio was removed (including a lot of oil canning noise near the stall!), but some indicated speeds called out by the pilot are shown in text on screen. Speeds are typically low, eg 70 mph indicated before slowing down, then down to 50 or 40 indicated (naturally likely inaccurate) for the slow flight. The pitch angle against the horizon is an indication of the speed. At about 37 and 49 seconds seconds there are clear stall recoveries, after a lot of wing rock. I don't know if there was an actual stall break or the pilot simply let the stick forward once the bucking was getting enough. I haven't thought through it all yet myself, but a few observations are possible: -- One can clearly see the region of separated airflow spread outboard and forward as the wing gets closer to a stall. -- Even when in slow flight not right at a stall, a large area near the wing root doesn't have straight fore to aft flow. I'm not current on my aerodynamics, but a waving yarn might only indicate an area of a turbulence within a thick boundary lager, and not fully separated flow. One can't see the actual wing/fuselage junction, but even outboard of that, the flow isn't all front to back. -- It doesn't take much to mess up airflow right down on the wing surface, if closer to the leading edge. There's a yarn just behind of the aft, inboard Dzus fastener on the wing locker. Even when the plane dives with speed when recovering from a stall, that yarn doesn't like to stay straight. On the other hand, the yarn behind the top of the main wheel strut, also behind an obstacle, does stay straight. A quick guess is that the slight upwards bulge of the wing locker near the front of the locker is what's actually causing a flow problem, not the Dzus fastener. The slight bulge is far enough forward on the airfoil that the shape becomes critical, unlike for the gear strut which is further back. The yarn that is forward of the "behind the Dzus" one, is right on the locker, and it shows a tendency to lift off the surface rather than stay flat on the wing. -- There is substantial inwards flow near the trailing edge of the wing. Some is expected near the tip as the tip vortex rotates up and inwards. But at low speed there's some inwards flow component along the aileron pretty much all the way inboard. Some inwards flow can be expected from a sharply forward swept trailing edge wing, but the amount is much more than I expected. -- Right when the plane is about to stall, it is impressive how many of those little yarns are trying to go the wrong way, to jump the aerodynamically sinking ship! Peter Chapman Toronto, ON ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Re: 601XL Rear Spar Reinforcement Idea
Malcolm, There is a section of the Zenith web site for builders. You must log in with a user name and password (which are available from Zenith) In that section there is an option to choose Zodiac XL and then select "For the lateset Drawings updates". This change can be found under "updates 2006" in the 3rd edition 3rd revision. I didn't locate this information until I had already drilled the 38mm hole. >From their we site, I surmise that they have already done the re-testing, but just have not compiled and published the results. Jay in Dallas "Malcolm Hunt" wrote: > >Hi Jay > >Where did you get the information on the 32mm dia hole from? I have looked >up the revisions to the drawings and cannot see it. > >Has anyone on the list made the spar cap angles (6W3-6&7) in two pieces to >bend them on a 8' brake? I have e-mailed Zenair technical people asking >their veiws without a reply. I wonder if they are still considering the >implication for the load test of the wing as noted in this months >newsletter? > >Best regards > >Malcolm Hunt >CH601XL Plans Builder in England ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tuft test video - 601 HDS
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Aug 29, 2007
Great video. I to looks like the air is really confused just aft of the inboard corner of the wing locker. I wonder if this is caused by the locker? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131635#131635 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Painting Layout
From: "AZFlyer" <millrML(at)aol.com>
Date: Aug 29, 2007
Jay, >From my RC building/flying days we always used thin "trim" tape (1/16, 1/8, 1/4") to make the painting edge, then regular masking tape over that for cover paper, blue 3M works for that. Electrical (plastic) tape also works, if the curves are not too tight. Use "Fine point dry erase markers" to mark your dimensions...marks come off easy. Wouldn't use the Xacto knife procedure... very hard to control the depth of cut. Mike -------- Mike Miller @ millrml(at)aol.com 601 XL, 3300, Dynon Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131640#131640 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tuft test video - 601 HDS
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Aug 29, 2007
Since you are doing tuft testing how about doing the side of they fuselage and find a good location for a static port. :D -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131653#131653 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graeme" <graeme(at)coletoolcentre.com.au>
Subject: Re: No slats
Date: Aug 30, 2007
There is a savana in Nth Qld with the VGs and VG wing mod with 80HP Rotax and From what I have heard the cruise speed is no better than my CH 701 with 80 hp Rotax 70 knots 5200rpm 2 up. if you want an improvement in speed use 100hp Rotax cruise 80 Knots ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Hey To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 3:12 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: No slats Thanks for that reference. I had been on the site several times but messed that page somehow. JG's reasoning based on real world experience is compelling. I too am leaning toward eliminating the slats and installing VGs and maybe a longer wing too to complete the package. I wish that someone in addition to JG had already done the mods and could confirm the performance figures he is claiming. I was going to start with the wings next week but will hold off a bit. Jerry On Aug 29, 2007, at 8:59 AM, LRM wrote: Check out the longer wing page. http://www.stolspeed.com/content.php?id=48, Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Hey To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com ; LRM Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:27 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: No slats Hi Larry, I must have missed something in the VG/slat discussion. Why are you increasing the wing span? Most reports I am aware of, the standard wing was used. Jerry On Aug 28, 2007, at 10:22 PM, LRM wrote: After careful consideration, I have decided to build my new 701 without slats and with vgs and longer wings. The slats are already built by the previous owner. I have to admit they are not workmanship up to my standards but they are ok and as good as most. They are now for sale with brackets, real cheap. Pick up only. E-mail me with an offer I can't refuse. I'm talking about, like almost take them off my hands. Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L - The Zenith-List Email Forum class="Apple-converted-space"> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space"> --> http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com - The Zenith-List Email Forum class="Apple-converted-space"> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space"> --> http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 28/08/2007 4:29 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2007
From: Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com>
Subject: Re: tuft test video - 601 HDS
George wrote: >How about tufting the canopy aft of the high point and along the top skin >behind the canopy. I'll bet there is considerable separation there, Good idea. There's a single canopy tuft test picture that I took years ago, 3/4 the way down the page: http://web.ionsys.com/~pchapman/zdc/zdc_photos_construction.htm (I haven't updated the 601 part of my website in years.) >As for the area near the wing root, I wonder if a suitable fillet wouldn't >improve that. ... Like Dave Austin put on his plane. While the video showed an area of disturbed airflow much larger than a fillet, the video was all at low speed and not cruise. (A small photo of Dave's fillet is on the same web page mentioned above.) Gig wrote: >Since you are doing tuft testing how about doing the side of they >fuselage and find a good location for a static port. I'm NOT planning to duct tape the camera to the wingtip to look back inboard. Peter Chapman Toronto, ON ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601XL Rear Spar Reinforcement Idea
From: "dfmoeller" <dfmoeller(at)austin.rr.com>
Date: Aug 29, 2007
Not to be contrarian here, but I believe that change is actually the developed length of the hinge doubler, not the aileron rod hole. I have both the original issue drawings from 2001 and the 3/06 drawing set. The size of the hole is 38 mm (or 1 1/2") on both. The only difference is that in the original set, the distance from the flange was several mm more. That change was done very early though. Your 38 mm holes are still the correct size. I agree that adding a doubler or some sort of reinforcement, around that hole is extremely cheap insurance and I am adding it! Doug Jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: > Malcolm, > > There is a section of the Zenith web site for builders. You must log in with a user name and password (which are available from Zenith) In that section there is an option to choose Zodiac XL and then select "For the lateset Drawings updates". This change can be found under "updates 2006" in the 3rd edition 3rd revision. I didn't locate this information until I had already drilled the 38mm hole. > > > > From their we site, I surmise that they have already done the re-testing, but just have not compiled and published the results. > > > > > > Jay in Dallas > > > "Malcolm Hunt" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Jay > > > > Where did you get the information on the 32mm dia hole from? I have looked > > up the revisions to the drawings and cannot see it. > > > > Has anyone on the list made the spar cap angles (6W3-6&7) in two pieces to > > bend them on a 8' brake? I have e-mailed Zenair technical people asking > > their veiws without a reply. I wonder if they are still considering the > > implication for the load test of the wing as noted in this months > > newsletter? > > > > Best regards > > > > Malcolm Hunt > > CH601XL Plans Builder in England > > > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131665#131665 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Hoak" <planejim(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: HDS nose gear bottom attachment to fuselage - sheared
rivets
Date: Aug 29, 2007
Peter & List, I have a 601HD (nose gear version) circa 1995 Plans & Kit. This A/C ( completed in late 1996 ) has over 550 hours with no operation on grass. I believe the nose gear on the HD and HDS are the same. I checked my plans, relative to your description of what you are seeing at your lower nose gear area. Observations: Where you note the sheared A5 rivets ( L & R sides ) there is no fastner required at all. I doubt you will have space to install a AN3 bolt. I believe you can just ignore the rivets. The centering ramps are to be secured with one AN3 bolt in the vertical leg as your picture shows and three AN3 bolts in the horizontal leg as your picture shows. The bolt head with the space under the head just aft of the firewall does look as though the hole was drilled crooked; the bolt is loose and bent or is just loose and cocked to one side in the hole. The original aircraft of the 1995 era were metal to metal but it was steel gear leg to aluminum "wear" plate ( not steel to steel ) both at top and bottom of the nose gear leg. ( I added the plastic/nylon wear block to the bottom of the nose gear on my aircraft at 350 hours due to excess wear of the aluminum wear plate - the original aluminum plate was left in place also). It appears to me that your original aluminum "wear" plate is also still in place. The top of my nose gear is still steel to aluminum with fairly heavy wear. I will soon add the plastic/nylon to the top. The gear leg in the picture seems to lack a good coat of grease as called for in the original Zenith operating instructions ( they suggest greasing the gear every 25 hours if my memory serves me). Also grease the ramps too. Based on my experience the nose gear must be kept greased well at both the top and bottom of the gear leg. I have found no loose bolts or sheared rivets in this area on my aircraft. Also, I would suggest that you check to assure the all the bolts associated with the nose gear are tight ( check it at annual condition inspection). Be aware that the nose gear gets a heavy workout on this aircraft on grass or rough surfaces. I still use the 1080HD bungee on my nose gear and see about 1" to 1 1/2" vertical movement of the nose gear leg in normal operation. As an aside I now use 1080 bungees ( not 1080HD ) on my main gear. ( I posted extensive information some months ago my experiences with my main gear). I hope this information is of benifit to you. Jim Hoak 601HD - Rotax 912UL - 551 hours. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Chapman" <pchapman(at)ionsys.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 7:13 PM Subject: Zenith-List: HDS nose gear bottom attachment to fuselage - sheared rivets > > Just to mention a maintenance issue I recently found. > > This was on a 601 HDS with 450 engine hours (vs. fewer flight hours). > > The ramps on which the nose gear steering rod rests, appear to attach > to the U-channel that runs up the firewall, with a bolt and (I think) > an A5 rivet on each side. > > On both sides, the A5 was found at an annual inspection to be sheared off. > > The ca. 1995 kit was from an era when everything was steel on steel, > with no nylon in the gear slide assemblies. However, this aircraft > was built with a nylon block below the strap that is bolted under the > fuselage, which holds the nose gear tube. A couple of bolts > connecting the strap to the fuselage appear slightly loose, something > I'm now looking into. They're in the first row aft of the firewall, > as if the strap were getting bent up and down, more likely once those > rivets sheared. (Even in the small version of the photo attached, > one bolt head appears to not be flush with the strap.) > > It might be possible to replace the rivets with bolts, but there is > limited space on the inside of the U-channel because of other bolts > coming up vertically in that area. > > Clearly there's some stress on the area. The aircraft flies mainly > off pavement but from time to time uses a grass runway, and we know > how stiff the bungee gear system is. > > > Peter Chapman > Toronto, ON 601 HDS / 912 / C-GZDC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Herb Heaton" <heatonhe36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Canopy Side Frame
Date: Aug 29, 2007
Hi Group, I am in the process of building my canopy frame for my 601XL. I can't find a dimension for the steel plate (0.05 x 100 x 30) welded at 31 deg to the side of the side frame. My plans are from April, 04 and I am looking at page 6-C-2, top, center iso view. The plate appears to be about 150mm back from the front pivot point but that's just a wag. Any help from those who have been there would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Herb Colorado Springs 601XL plans built, Turbo Subaru ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Canopy Side Frame
Herb, That piece is shown on my drawings (07/05) and the location is not dimensioned. However, the location is not critical. The outside cover for the forward part of the frame is secured by the pivot bolt and by riveting to this plate. Mine is already covered up or I would measure it for you. Since the location is not critical, I would just "eyeball" it. Jay in Dallas "Herb Heaton" wrote: > >Hi Group, > >I am in the process of building my canopy frame for my 601XL. I can't find >a dimension for the steel plate (0.05 x 100 x 30) welded at 31 deg to the >side of the side frame. My plans are from April, 04 and I am looking at >page 6-C-2, top, center iso view. The plate appears to be about 150mm back >from the front pivot point but that's just a wag. Any help from those who >have been there would be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks in advance, >Herb >Colorado Springs >601XL plans built, Turbo Subaru > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy Side Frame
Date: Aug 29, 2007
Hi Herb, I had the same problem .I just looked at the pictures and placed it where it looked like it sould be .The only purpose of this piece is to recieve 3 rivets attaching 6C3-6 . Mine worked out fine ,so close should be good enough . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herb Heaton" <heatonhe36(at)msn.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 7:48 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy Side Frame > > Hi Group, > > I am in the process of building my canopy frame for my 601XL. I can't > find a dimension for the steel plate (0.05 x 100 x 30) welded at 31 deg to > the side of the side frame. My plans are from April, 04 and I am looking > at page 6-C-2, top, center iso view. The plate appears to be about 150mm > back from the front pivot point but that's just a wag. Any help from > those who have been there would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance, > Herb > Colorado Springs > 601XL plans built, Turbo Subaru > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Canopy Side Frame
From: "GLJSOJ1" <gljno10(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Aug 30, 2007
JUST MEASURED MINE FROM THE KIT AND IT IS 210 MM FROM CENTER OF THE CANOPY RAIL HINGE BOLT TO THE BEGINNING OF THE STEEL PLATE. I HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH THE FLASHING THAT ATTACHES THERE FOR OVER A WEEK OFF AND ON, BUT I FINALLY GOT IT LIKE I WANTED IT. THANKS TO ALL HOW HELPED ME WITH THAT GLENN -------- 601XL BUILDER ALMOST DONE CHESAPEAKE VA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131782#131782 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2007
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Subject: Re: tuft test video - 601 HDS
Peter, thank you for posting the video. Very interesting results there. It is really great when someone takes the time and effort to produce real data, rather than just speculating--like I am doing ;-) Your study reminds me of the work that Klaus Truemper did on his HDS--see: http://www.utdallas.edu/~klaus/Airplane/airplane.html and follow the link to the wing root fairing. Klaus used a manometer to look at the pressure at various points on his HDS and demonstrated that the curvature of the fuselage over the wing creates a low pressure region at the wing root aft of the widest part of the fuselage. Klaus built wing root fairings that reduced the effect of the low pressure zone and improved the performance and stall behavior of his aircraft. Is it possible that the inward flow at the aileron is caused by the low pressure region all the way in at the wing root? I plan to put fairings on my 601XL, but I'm hoping that someone will start selling them before I get to that point so that I don't have to make them myself. The turbulence around the wing locker is troubling. I am putting in the wing lockers, and I am planning to use flexible tape to cover the hinge. Soaring pilots commonly use tape to seal gaps, see, e.g., http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page29.htm My goal was primarily to seal the rain out. However, there might be a fringe benefit of reducing boundary layer separation caused by the locker door hinge. The separation along the inboard side of the wing locker door could be caused by air leakage from the inside of the wing. The bottom of the wing is a high pressure area. I'm guessing that the inside of the wing is pressurized through any small opening on the bottom of the wing. There appears to be a gap along the inside edge of the locker door. Leakage through that gap could induce separation, and your video suggests that is a problem area on that wing. It would be interesting to know if taping that gap would affect the separation in that zone. If leakage is causing the problem, possible fixes might be to use more Dzus fasteners along the door edge, putting a thin gasket to improve the seal, or stiffening the door by gluing or riveting on longitudinal doubler strips to the inside of the door. Thanks again for posting the video. Nice work. Terry > > >I finally got around to doing a little video of some tuft testing on the >601 HDS I fly, filmed with a 0.3 wide angle lens on the camcorder. > >It is posted online at http://pcxstuff.blip.tv/file/356716/ and can also >be downloaded as a 13MB .wmv file. It's not a particularly clear video. > >It was an unprofessional test, a flight with no detailed plan, on a dark, >turbulent day, quickly done before the weather got any worse. But I >haven't seen anything better, so this will have to do until I get around >to trying again. > >In its nearly 2 minutes, the video basically shows slow flight, throttled >back, with a few approaches down to incipient stalls. Audio was removed >(including a lot of oil canning noise near the stall!), but some indicated >speeds called out by the pilot are shown in text on screen. Speeds are >typically low, eg 70 mph indicated before slowing down, then down to 50 or >40 indicated (naturally likely inaccurate) for the slow flight. The pitch >angle against the horizon is an indication of the speed. > >At about 37 and 49 seconds seconds there are clear stall recoveries, after >a lot of wing rock. I don't know if there was an actual stall break or the >pilot simply let the stick forward once the bucking was getting enough. > > >I haven't thought through it all yet myself, but a few observations are >possible: > >-- One can clearly see the region of separated airflow spread outboard and >forward as the wing gets closer to a stall. > >-- Even when in slow flight not right at a stall, a large area near the >wing root doesn't have straight fore to aft flow. I'm not current on my >aerodynamics, but a waving yarn might only indicate an area of a >turbulence within a thick boundary lager, and not fully separated flow. >One can't see the actual wing/fuselage junction, but even outboard of >that, the flow isn't all front to back. > >-- It doesn't take much to mess up airflow right down on the wing >surface, if closer to the leading edge. >There's a yarn just behind of the aft, inboard Dzus fastener on the wing >locker. Even when the plane dives with speed when recovering from a stall, >that yarn doesn't like to stay straight. On the other hand, the yarn >behind the top of the main wheel strut, also behind an obstacle, does stay >straight. A quick guess is that the slight upwards bulge of the wing >locker near the front of the locker is what's actually causing a flow >problem, not the Dzus fastener. The slight bulge is far enough forward on >the airfoil that the shape becomes critical, unlike for the gear strut >which is further back. The yarn that is forward of the "behind the Dzus" >one, is right on the locker, and it shows a tendency to lift off the >surface rather than stay flat on the wing. > >-- There is substantial inwards flow near the trailing edge of the wing. >Some is expected near the tip as the tip vortex rotates up and inwards. >But at low speed there's some inwards flow component along the aileron >pretty much all the way inboard. Some inwards flow can be expected from a >sharply forward swept trailing edge wing, but the amount is much more than >I expected. > >-- Right when the plane is about to stall, it is impressive how many of >those little yarns are trying to go the wrong way, to jump the >aerodynamically sinking ship! > > >Peter Chapman >Toronto, ON > Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601XL Rear Spar Reinforcement Idea
From: "Scotsman" <james.roberts(at)computershare.co.za>
Date: Aug 30, 2007
Andy et al. Just browsing through the accident reports I was wondering, as I haven't received my ordered kit, if you noted any potential design "problems" around about the 6 feet inboard mark as I noted that NTSB did specify additional damage in this area? "The leading edge wing skins for both wings had separated from the wing spars and ribs about 6 feet from the wing tip inboard" Is there any possibility that the wing baggage locker space set could interfere with the structure stability of the wing under a torsional load? j Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131798#131798 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: British 601 Crash (was: 601 Crash)
From: "Scotsman" <james.roberts(at)computershare.co.za>
Date: Aug 30, 2007
Makes you wonder what was reduced/removed to facilitate this? j Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131805#131805 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2007
From: Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com>
Subject: Re: tuft test video - 601 HDS
At 10:37 30-08-07, you wrote: > Is it possible that the inward flow at the aileron is caused by > the low pressure region all the way in at the wing root? For all I know, sure, it could be encouraging some of that inwards flow. >There appears to be a gap along the inside edge of the locker door. Yes that particular locker door is a little bulged in spots -- I think a snugly fitted door would do better. Just didn't come out perfectly when built. Next time I should put yarn right next to those gaps to see if I can detect outflow -- or tape up the gap for one flight. I personally wouldn't worry about gap taping the hinges given all the other drag sources, and because water can also leak in from the sides. But no objections if one can get it to fit snugly over the hinge. (I did use some sort of gap seal like tape on the top wing skin where the locker doors press on them when closed, to try to reduce any metal on metal (or metal on paint) rubbing.) I sometimes thought of doing water manometer tests of pressures in the rad ducting in my engine compartment... and now that I've looked again at Klaus' page, I see he has done exactly that. Peter Chapman Toronto, ON ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2007
From: Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com>
Subject: Re: 601XL Rear Spar Reinforcement Idea
At 11:00 30-08-07, you wrote some stuff that was pretty suspicious about 601 structural integrity: > > >"The leading edge wing skins for both wings had separated from the >wing spars and ribs about 6 feet from the wing tip inboard" This is re: the 601 XL in report LAX06LA105. Considering that the aircraft spun in with both wings folded, and the spars were extensively bent from the inflight failure and crash, the simple fact that leading edge skins had separated is of no real concern to me. >Is there any possibility that the wing baggage locker space set >could interfere with the structure stability of the wing under a >torsional load? Of course it reduces it but the design analysis used on homebuilts is not like airliners where more is taken into account. I'll guess that all anticipated torsional loads can be handled by the main and rear spar and ribs alone. Or perhaps the leading edge box was taken into account too for the torsional strength it can give. Any skin stiffness is then bonus. From another post: >Makes you wonder what was reduced/removed to facilitate this? j If that refers to the UL being lighter weight than the HD, you've got it turned around. They didn't take stuff out of the HD to make the UL; the UL came first and later was beefed up into the HD. Peter Chapman Toronto, ON ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Sunshades revisited
Has anyone recently (last two years or so) put a Koger shade in a 601XL? The website for the Koger shade only lists models for the RV7 and RV8 as far as I can tell. There was a post in the archives quite a while back referring to a Koger shade in a 601 but nobody has talked about it since. Anyone have recent info on the subject? Dred 610XL/Jabiru ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sunshades revisited
From: "rickpitcher" <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Aug 30, 2007
dredmoody(at)cox.net wrote: > Has anyone recently (last two years or so) put a Koger shade in a 601XL? The website for the Koger shade only lists models for the RV7 and RV8 as far as I can tell. There was a post in the archives quite a while back referring to a Koger shade in a 601 but nobody has talked about it since. > > Anyone have recent info on the subject? > > Dred > 610XL/Jabiru I bought one from Koger a couple of months ago. The RV style fits our Zodiac bubbles just fine. I LOVE it! One of the best accessories I've bought for One Zulu Romeo Rick Pitcher Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131924#131924 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Sunshades revisited
Rick, was it an RV7 style shade? That would seem to me to be too short in the fore and aft direction. The RV7 has a rollover protection structure right behind the pilots so it has to stop there. We have a good bit more clear canopy going rearward from that point. Does the RV7 style shade do the job adequately for you? Dred ---- rickpitcher wrote: > I bought one from Koger a couple of months ago. The RV style fits our Zodiac bubbles just fine. > I LOVE it! One of the best accessories I've bought for One Zulu Romeo > > Rick Pitcher ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: British 601 Crash (was: 601 Crash)
From: "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Aug 30, 2007
The 601UL has less wing ribs installed amongst other things. There is nothing "taken out" to make it cheap or anything - just designed for a specific weight / performance category. If the aircraft is being operated outside of that category it needs the heavier parts, or placarded with the lower Va / Vne speeds that ZAC supplies the calculation formula for. Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131931#131931 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Corvair engine in Southern California
From: "lwinger" <larrywinger(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 30, 2007
There seem to be a bunch of Corvair builders on the list. I'm selling an engine and wanted to offer it to the Corvair and Zenith lists before Craigslist and Ebay. Pickup only in Orange County, CA. http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwinger/sets/72157601765999888/show/ -------------------------------- 1965 to 1967 Corvair engine for conversion. T0707RK - 110HP, 164 cubic inch displacement originally from car with PowerGlide transmission and air conditioning. Heads on engine upon removal were mismatched. Got matched 3856759 heads from a 1965 110HP 9:1 compression ratio, dual valve engine. Engine is disassembled and surface cleaned. Ready for thorough cleaning and conversion. Paid over $400 one year ago. Will accept reasonable offer. -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL/Corvair from scratch Control surfaces and wing parts complete Building the wing Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131934#131934 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sunshades revisited
From: "rickpitcher" <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Aug 30, 2007
dredmoody(at)cox.net wrote: > Rick, was it an RV7 style shade? That would seem to me to be too short in the fore and aft direction. The RV7 has a rollover protection structure right behind the pilots so it has to stop there. We have a good bit more clear canopy going rearward from that point. Does the RV7 style shade do the job adequately for you? > > Dred > > > ---- rickpitcher wrote: > > > > I bought one from Koger a couple of months ago. The RV style fits our Zodiac bubbles just fine. > > I LOVE it! One of the best accessories I've bought for One Zulu Romeo > > > > Rick Pitcher > > > > > I think he said it was for an RV6. Send an email to :r.koger(at)mchsi.com and tell him you want a shade for the Zodiac. He knows which one we need. Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131935#131935 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sunshades revisited
From: "rickpitcher" <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Aug 30, 2007
rickpitcher wrote: > > dredmoody(at)cox.net wrote: > > Rick, was it an RV7 style shade? That would seem to me to be too short in the fore and aft direction. The RV7 has a rollover protection structure right behind the pilots so it has to stop there. We have a good bit more clear canopy going rearward from that point. Does the RV7 style shade do the job adequately for you? > > > > Dred > > > > > > ---- rickpitcher wrote: > > > > > > > I bought one from Koger a couple of months ago. The RV style fits our Zodiac bubbles just fine. > > > I LOVE it! One of the best accessories I've bought for One Zulu Romeo > > > > > > Rick Pitcher > > > > > > > > > > > I think he said it was for an RV6. > Send an email to :r.koger(at)mchsi.com and tell him you want a shade for the Zodiac. He knows which one we need. > > Rick Here's their webpage: http://cleavelandtool.com/kogercompany/sunshade.htm Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131936#131936 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Sunshades revisited
Date: Aug 30, 2007
Dred, My dad Bob ordered and installed one of the Koger shades in my ZodiacXL about five months ago and it is too small. It does a fair job but should be just a little wider and about 9 inches longer. He worked with Ralph on a suitable design for the ZodiacXL after he bought mine by designing one specifically for the ZodiacXL and sent him the dimensions. If you e-mail him at r.koger(at)mchsi.com, he should have the proper dimensions to make you a shade that will provide maximum shade. Mention my dad's name, Bob Stone and remind him that he was sent the proper dimensions Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 3:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Sunshades revisited > > Has anyone recently (last two years or so) put a Koger shade in a 601XL? > The website for the Koger shade only lists models for the RV7 and RV8 as > far as I can tell. There was a post in the archives quite a while back > referring to a Koger shade in a 601 but nobody has talked about it since. > > Anyone have recent info on the subject? > > Dred > 610XL/Jabiru > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LRM" <lrm(at)skyhawg.com>
Subject: 701 slats
Date: Aug 30, 2007
In a recent post a fellow "poster" used the "I have heard" statement to compare performances between aircraft with equal HP engines performing about the same. This is what he said; "There is a savana in Nth Qld with the VGs and VG wing mod with 80HP Rotax and From what I have heard the cruise speed is no better than my CH 701 with 80 hp Rotax 70 knots 5200rpm 2 up. if you want an improvement in speed use 100hp Rotax cruise 80 Knots". There is nothing wrong with the post other than it has minimum validity to it. Except the more hp part. A person can say "I have heard" about anything. The only problem is that if it repeated enough, it becomes fact. There are only a few ways a true comparison like that can be made. One is if all the variables are the same and it becomes a true apples to apples comparison and another is if enough runs are made by both to compute some types of averages or I guess they could race. But, "I have heard", nope I don't buy that one. You will have to pardon me, it's just a pet peeve with me. However, I have heard, less drag, more lift equals better performance. That's just a rumor, don't repeat it. lol. Just funning, don't get upset. Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sunshades revisited
From: "alex_01" <zoechling(at)gmx.de>
Date: Aug 31, 2007
my one is perfect see pic bought from cleveland tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131992#131992 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00024_957.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Sunshades revisited
alex, how is it stuck on? -----Original Message----- >From: alex_01 <zoechling(at)gmx.de> >Sent: Aug 31, 2007 8:39 AM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sunshades revisited > > >my one is perfect see pic bought from cleveland tools > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131992#131992 > > >Attachments: > >http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00024_957.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: cockpit cover, 701?
From: "billmileski" <mileski(at)sonalysts.com>
Date: Aug 31, 2007
Hi all, Any opinions on a good cover for the 701 cockpit? Been wanting to get one for overnight/extended trips. It would be great if it wasn't very bulky when packed up. Have thought about hacking up a car cover and making my own. Are any available for sale anywhere? Thanks, Bill Mileski 701 912S 102hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132048#132048 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: Speed
Date: Aug 31, 2007
Members, I have seen several posts concerning what speed to expect in cruise depending on which engine is installed in the ZodiacXL. I guess one can use anything from a 75 HP VW to the 120 HP 0-235 and get better climb and cruise performance depending on the prop as well as the engine. I have a 120 HP Jabiru 3300 installed in my ZodiacXL. My top speed with the engine running wide open in cruise is 135 MPH. I reduce engine speed to 2500 RPM on a trip and cruise at 120. This is with a washed clean airplane with wheel pants. I have no idea weather the wheel pants or wash job increase speed performance but have heard both help. The above is fact now here is my opinion. If you would be satisfied with Cessna 150 performance in your ZodiacXL, then install a 75 HP VW. If money in no object use the Lycoming 0-235. I think that any engine that will produce at least 100 HP is suitable for the ZodiacXL. I used the Jabiru 3300 which is rated at 120 HP. The cost was about $14,000.00 and the firewall forward kit was another $495.00. I am very satisfied with the performance of my aircraft both in climb and cruise. Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sunshades revisited
From: "alex_01" <zoechling(at)gmx.de>
Date: Aug 31, 2007
with a kind of a double side tape short strips (slightl foamy) about 2" long. was ok but not really strong enought when parked outside in the sun. i got some more from 3M it is used to stick mirrowglass to the wall on tiles etc. used over the full lenght and perfect i bought a 2nd one for my friend here who has my old xl and he had similar problems but now also ok. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132066#132066 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sunshades revisited
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Date: Aug 31, 2007
Has anyone tried little suction cups to support the rail? That way it would be removable. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132084#132084 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Pictrue of the DAY
Date: Aug 31, 2007
Sorry I just couldn't resist! At least they admit where the design comes from ! Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com 8/31/2007 6:13 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2007
From: Kevin McCune <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Subject: Jabiru 2200A and Ch 701
I just saw a new FWF on the Jabiru USA site and it looks good. Any one have first hand experience with this engine in a 701? I'm looking for Clime and cruise speed info. The Kit has a 62" 44pitch prop. Link below. http://www.usjabiru.com/Zenith%20701%20fwf.htm Thanks Kevin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Jabiru 2200A and Ch 701
Date: Aug 31, 2007
If you drill down you will see that the yellow 701 has a 3300, not a 2200: http://www.usjabiru.com/Zenith%20701%20FWF%20Images/IMG_0018.jpg Jabiru USA may also have a FWF kit for the 2200, I don't know. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 601XL rear spar risk mitigation
Another thing to emphasize would be to "polish" the hole edges as well. Since the necked down area of concern near the flange in the original spar is now occluded by the strap doubler, it could crack without being detected. perhaps add a strip of this along the lower edge after polishing to avoid notching or dinging during asembly? http://www.devicetec.com/DTIProducts/SpringFast/Default.asp "Dr. Andrew Elliott" wrote: BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; MARGIN-TOP: 10px; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; COLOR: #000000; BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Courier New } Gang: I appreciate all the feedback I have gotten on my idea to mitigate the risk of rear spar failures by adding a small strap to the lower spar flange in the area of the aileron pushrod hole. This was discussed in detail at http://members.cox.net/n601ge/drawings/rearspar.html Many people have other ideas, which is why it's called "experimental" aviation! I would like to add some notes: [1] It should be straightforward to inspect the strap doubler on a regular basis for working rivets or cracks. So an additional good characteristic of this type of risk mitigation is that you can use it to get some real data on the hypothetical problem. If people install the strap and report no damage over time (50 hour intervals?), then either there was no problem there or the minimalist fix worked like a charm. If people later report that they are finding evidence of strap fatigue, then we have identified a "real" problem and can work out a "real" fix. [1a] If you install such a strap, you should note it in your builder's log and consider putting an inspection item in your annual checklist - "Visually inspect strap doublers on rear spar lower flange in area of aileron pushrod for any evidence of cracks, fatigue or working rivets." Over the years, as evidence builds, you will gain (or lose) confidence in the design and/or strap. [3] It was brought up to me by one respondent that for scratch builders, there is an option to use a 2-piece rear spar, and that this design has a larger, heavy-duty splice in the same area. If people with that design built and flying can inspect the doubler and report its apparent condition, those would be additional data points. FWIW, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Painting Layout
talent critical suggestion. A slightly heavy hand or a bobble will leave a completely hiddden scratch or cut in the aluminum. Guess where the fatigue failure will occur? I have seen this done. Find 1/8" wide masking tape for doing the complex shapes. OR use 3/4" tape over the joint, mark the tape, cut with an exatco knife and lift the side you don't want. Just some thoughts, -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131499#131499 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Painting Layout
talent critical suggestion. A slightly heavy hand or a bobble will leave a completely hiddden scratch or cut in the aluminum. Guess where the fatigue failure will occur? David Downey wrote: Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Mobil MX4T oil for Rotax
From: "billmileski" <mileski(at)sonalysts.com>
Date: Aug 31, 2007
Hi, Just went to buy Mobil 1 MX4T motorcycle oil for the Rotax 912S, which was on the approved list, and found that it's been renamed to "Mobil 1 Racing 4T". Just thought I'd post in case anyone was unsure this is still the same oil. From www.mobil1.com: "Mobil 1 MX4T 10W-40 was renamed because the product is known as Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 outside the US. Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 joins Mobil 1 Racing 2T, for two-cycle engines, and Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50. Be assured that no changes to the Mobil 1 MX4T 10W-40 formulation occurred during this name change. Same great product, new name. " Bill Mileski 701 912S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132177#132177 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graeme Bell" <graeme(at)coletoolcentre.com.au>
Subject: 701 slats
Date: Sep 01, 2007
----- Original Message ----- From: Cole Tool Centre Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 1:03 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 slats When I say I have herd it is a correct statement as I have not flown in the aircraft. A pilot of this aircraft stated the quoted figures, I see larry you are removing slats to reduce drag but adding three ft on each wing will this not increase drag??? As far as VG's are concerned if there percieved benifits are repeated enough they will sell more of them as your post already shows. Graeme Cairns ----- Original Message ----- From: LRM To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 12:22 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 701 slats In a recent post a fellow "poster" used the "I have heard" statement to compare performances between aircraft with equal HP engines performing about the same. This is what he said; "There is a savana in Nth Qld with the VGs and VG wing mod with 80HP Rotax and From what I have heard the cruise speed is no better than my CH 701 with 80 hp Rotax 70 knots 5200rpm 2 up. if you want an improvement in speed use 100hp Rotax cruise 80 Knots". There is nothing wrong with the post other than it has minimum validity to it. Except the more hp part. A person can say "I have heard" about anything. The only problem is that if it repeated enough, it becomes fact. There are only a few ways a true comparison like that can be made. One is if all the variables are the same and it becomes a true apples to apples comparison and another is if enough runs are made by both to compute some types of averages or I guess they could race. But, "I have heard", nope I don't buy that one. You will have to pardon me, it's just a pet peeve with me. However, I have heard, less drag, more lift equals better performance. That's just a rumor, don't repeat it. lol. Just funning, don't get upset. Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Falcon Heads for corvair Recommended!
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 31, 2007
It's been awhile, as a mater of fact last November 2006, during CC 10 that I talked to Mark about doing my heads. He told me to just scrape off the rough stuff and ship em. Told me then I was number 10 in the Q. I told him I was in no hurry but wanted him to do his magic to these 95hp heads which had some broken bolts and bad exhaust pipes etc. All this took place over the phone, I have never met Mark face to face. This week the heads arrived and they were in two boxes and packed very well. I opened them up and took some pictures to show you guys just what kind of work this guy does. I must say I am very pleased with the results. I don't please all that easy. A little of my history, 10 years as a machinist in the Chevrolet Engineering Center / Powertrain Engineering prototype shop. I do know good work and Mark at Falcon Automotive is doing excellent work. Recommended! The before and after pictures are here: http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/wsb/html/view.cgi-photos.html-.html The files are large, about a CD's worth for each picture. You have been warned. -- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132187#132187 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Sunshades revisited
Alex, did you buy the 3m doub le side tape on line, ? where would you recommend? Juan -----Original Message----- >From: alex_01 <zoechling(at)gmx.de> >Sent: Aug 31, 2007 1:23 PM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sunshades revisited > > >with a kind of a double side tape short strips (slightl foamy) about 2" long. >was ok but not really strong enought when parked outside in the sun. >i got some more from 3M it is used to stick mirrowglass to the wall on tiles etc. >used over the full lenght and perfect >i bought a 2nd one for my friend here who has my old xl and he had similar problems but now also ok. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132066#132066 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Speed
Date: Sep 01, 2007
I checked last night and my quick math yeilded somewhere in the $4,500 neighborhood, so that's ballpark. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: robert stone To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 6:00 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Speed Hay Dred, This getting old is for the birds, but at least I can blame all of my stupid errors on it. In my message where I quoted the firewall forward price as $495.00, it should have been $4,950.00 Tracy Stone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Stanley Challgren <challgren(at)mac.com>
Subject: 701 Seatbelts
Date: Sep 01, 2007
List: I am intrigued by the seat belts in AMD's new Patriot as shown on page 155 of the August 2007 AOPA magazine. I am about to attach the seat belt fittings in my 701 and am wondering what I would have to alter in the installation to achieve the same kind of installation? Stan N701VG (Reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ryan Vechinski <brothapig(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Flanging spar web
Date: Sep 01, 2007
Working on finishing up my 701 spars from scratch. When is the best time for flanging the spar web lightening holes - before o r after riveting the spar caps on? Or does it even makes a difference? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: &01 Owners in Ottawa Area
Date: Sep 01, 2007
Group, I need help. I am looking for a flying 701 or one that is near completion in the Ottawa area for a interested party to visit tomorrow. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com 8/22/2007 6:51 PM 8/31/2007 5:21 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: Flanging spar web
Ryan, It would seem best to complete the work on the spar before attaching spar caps. This way, if you mess it up, the spar caps don't go with the repair or replacement that would be required. Also, you have more area to work with without spar caps. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Ryan Vechinski wrote: > Working on finishing up my 701 spars from scratch. > When is the best time for flanging the spar web lightening holes > - before or after riveting the spar caps on? Or does it even makes a > difference? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ho Hum - Not! N8701 validates Zenith Design
From: "Tommy Walker" <twalker(at)cableone.net>
Date: Sep 01, 2007
Fellow Builders, (Possible Long Post. Skip if irrelevant to you). We started our kit August, 2004. Airworthiness Certificate issued August 2007 First flight, August 31, 2007 Since this is our first project, My buddy and I decided at the beginning our project would conform to the designer's specification. The building has been a project of faith in the designer's creation. Our thanks go out to: Mr. Chris Heintz The Zenith List (The Matronics Digest has been a part of my morning coffee ritual for three years). There are several builders on this list who gave me good advice on several problems I faced. Thanks to each of you. Roger Dubbert at Zenith Nick Heintz Sebastian Heintz Shirley at Zenith Caleb Gephardt at Zenith Rick Roberts (hopefully a new life long friend), builder extarodinaire who possesses a positive attitude. I love his Purple and Black 701. If we get our Phase I testing done, we are going to fly our planes to the SERFI fly-in in October. http://www.serfi.org/ John Anderson. His advice was always good, and he helped kept me on-task during the final days leading up to the DAR inspection. Randy Fortune. Randy and I are former amateur marathon runners. We co-owned a Cessna 175 for several years. What can you say about a buddy? Randy proved his confidence in my work by being the test pilot. Thanks Randy! You Know Who (please forgive me for this aside: I've tried to not offer comments outside the purpose for this list, but now offer thanks to our Personal Designer). Tommy Walker in Alabama -------- Tommy Walker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132263#132263 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/de_plane_705.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ho Hum - Not! N8701 validates Zenith Design
From: "rroberts" <groberts19(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Sep 01, 2007
EXCELLENT job Tommy and Randy. Can't wait till we fly some paint ! [Exclamation] -------- Low & Slow Rick www.n701rr.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132270#132270 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2007
From: "Leo Gates" <leo(at)zuehlfield.com>
Subject: Re: Ho Hum - Not! N8701 validates Zenith Design
Tommy, It can't get any better! Leo Gates N601Z (Possible Long Post. Skip if irrelevant to you). We started our kit August, 2004. Airworthiness Certificate issued August 2007 First flight, August 31, 2007 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Forney" <dforney(at)bctonline.com>
Subject: Re: 601XL rear spar risk mitigation
Date: Sep 01, 2007
Most of the guys in my local EAA chapter are real RV advocates. Several are building RV9As. I am the only one building a Zenith 601XL in my chapter. I wanted to take advantage of the "Sport Pilot" rating for medical and flying longevity, even though I am currently "Private Pilot" rated. I chose the 601XL after doing what I felt was in-depth investigative due diligence. One of the members brought up and made a point of noting at one of our club meetings the other day, the two NTSB fatal accident reports (LAX06LA105 & DFW07LA102) regarding in-flight breakups & wing failures. At that time I was unaware of the incidents and did not respond. Since then, I have read the official reports on the NTSB web site, but they are far from conclusive. I found it interesting that one of the aircraft had just had some work and modifications done by an aircraft repair facility two weeks earlier and the other incident appeared to be during some very foul weather. I was wondering if anyone had any additional information on these two incidents, or knows of any more details and information that I could access regarding them. I realize that there are many factors that could contribute to these incidents such as build quality, maintenance quality, flying procedures, etc. I am building from standard 601XL kit and trying to do everything exactly as the plans and assembly guides instruct. Since I have never built an aircraft before I just want to make sure that I don't unknowing do something that could contribute to in-flight failures and want to feel that I am building and flying a safely engineered aircraft. All feedback or reassurance is welcome. Thanks! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 01, 2007
Subject: Re: Ho Hum - Not! N8701 validates Zenith Design
Congratulations Tommy on the first flight, the plane looks great. Bob Spudis In a message dated 9/1/2007 5:22:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, twalker(at)cableone.net writes: Fellow Builders, (Possible Long Post. Skip if irrelevant to you). We started our kit August, 2004. Airworthiness Certificate issued August 2007 First flight, August 31, 2007 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Ho Hum - Not! N8701 validates Zenith Design
Date: Sep 01, 2007
Tommy, we watched you from the beginning, great job and good fortune. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of NYTerminat(at)aol.com Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 8:45 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ho Hum - Not! N8701 validates Zenith Design Congratulations Tommy on the first flight, the plane looks great. Bob Spudis In a message dated 9/1/2007 5:22:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, twalker(at)cableone.net writes: Fellow Builders, (Possible Long Post. Skip if irrelevant to you). We started our kit August, 2004. Airworthiness Certificate issued August 2007 First flight, August 31, 2007 _____ "http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982" \nAOL.com. "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 8/31/2007 5:21 PM 8/31/2007 5:21 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ho Hum - Not! N8701 validates Zenith Design
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 01, 2007
Congratulations Tommy. I am about a year away, keep us posted on the testing. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132297#132297 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jari Kaija (LapTop2)" <jari.kaija(at)pp.inet.fi>
Subject: Re: Flanging spar web
Date: Sep 02, 2007
Before! If you ruin lightening hole, all of that annoying riveting work was waste of time :-) http://www.project-ch701.net/ch701_wings/construct_wings.php ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Vechinski To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 7:23 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Flanging spar web Working on finishing up my 701 spars from scratch. When is the best time for flanging the spar web lightening holes - before or after riveting the spar caps on? Or does it even makes a difference? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2007
From: Christian Tremblay <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Subject: Wing chord line alignement to spars
Hi Guys, I am in the process to fix the ribs to the wing spar (right wing). I fixed the spar on my work table with iron corners, same attachments for ribs on the work table. The wing of CH640 have 9 and 10 Front & Rear Ribs, identical on Y and X measurement. I would confirms 2 ideas about the chord line alignment of the wing. 1) The chord line should to be perpendicular oriented to the Spar, in the Assembly doc, it's say the Wing ribs must be 90 degrees to spars ; 2) The chord line, if this above assumption (1) is right, should be at the same distance (y) from the table top, for both nose and rear ribs. Am I right ? This will help me to obtain a perfect ribs alignment with spars. Thanks again ______________________________________ Christian Tremblay A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan http://www.zodiac640.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2007
From: "Dave Thompson" <dave.thompson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Cable Ties
List, I was searching for some equipment for a large telephone system installation that I have next month. I came across some cool items that might interest some of you. The link below is for the Thomas & Betts ty-rap catalog. Check out page 32 for a low profile ty-rap. The end lays along side the other piece to form a smooth "buckle" (no bloody hands). Page 33 has a double loop ty-rap that can be used to attach a wire bundle to a tube. They also have a variety of ty-rap mounts and stainless steel ty-raps. If you have trouble finding a local supplier, try your local electrician's supply house. Thomas & Betts is known for their electrical parts. Question? Could the stainless steel ty-raps be used in high heat applications such as FWF and exhaust wrap? These items have been around for a while but I thought some of you might want a catalog and might find something you didn't know existed. Click the link below. http://www.tnb.com/contractor/docs/tyrap.pdf Dave Thompson Westminster, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sunshades revisited
From: "alex_01" <zoechling(at)gmx.de>
Date: Sep 03, 2007
Hello Juan, I got mine here in Germany we have it in our workshop, but please look here this should help you http://www.tesatape.com/professional/industry/products/doubl4249/doubl4300/46800.html and i looked for you where you could order online http://www.pamarcoglobal.com/flexo-pages/_body-flexo-content8-02c.htm TESA 4977 will do the job perfect Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132458#132458 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Cable Ties
Date: Sep 03, 2007
Great site Thanks...Joe N101HD 601XL ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Thompson To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 12:48 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Cable Ties List, I was searching for some equipment for a large telephone system installation that I have next month. I came across some cool items that might interest some of you. The link below is for the Thomas & Betts ty-rap catalog. Check out page 32 for a low profile ty-rap. The end lays along side the other piece to form a smooth "buckle" (no bloody hands). Page 33 has a double loop ty-rap that can be used to attach a wire bundle to a tube. They also have a variety of ty-rap mounts and stainless steel ty-raps. If you have trouble finding a local supplier, try your local electrician's supply house. Thomas & Betts is known for their electrical parts. Question? Could the stainless steel ty-raps be used in high heat applications such as FWF and exhaust wrap? These items have been around for a while but I thought some of you might want a catalog and might find something you didn't know existed. Click the link below. http://www.tnb.com/contractor/docs/tyrap.pdf Dave Thompson Westminster, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "don wentz" <dasduck(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Sunshades revisited
Date: Sep 03, 2007
Regarding the Koger Sunshades - I installed one in my RV-6 Tip-up canopy very early in his production, 1995 or 6? Anyway, I have never had any issue with it of any kind, the sticky strips are still sticky, the slide still slides. I use it all the time - extended for taxi/ground work, pulled back for takoff and pattern work. The only time it doesan't cover enough is cross country where you are at altitude on a sunny day. I usually just put a map up under the edge of it to block the side sun if it's an issue (one of those small suction cup shades may be better for that side sun than a map ;-). The fact that it's always there and so easy to extend/retract, makes it worth the price IMO. Don ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Corvair Bell Housing Needed
From: "Kemter" <james.kemter(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Sep 03, 2007
Redeploying from Afghanistan in a few days and have a Corvair engine to start converting upon my return. Anyone have an extra bell housing they'd like to part with? Thanks. Jim K. San Antonio, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132508#132508 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ho Hum - Not! N8701 validates Zenith Design
From: "Dirtbos" <dirtbozz(at)ATT.NET>
Date: Sep 03, 2007
Nice work guys. I think the plane looks very clean just the way it is. I would appreciate some close up photos of the panel and interior. Do you have a bulders website? Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132513#132513 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2007
From: Jimbo <jimandmandy(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Falcon Heads for corvair Recommended!
--- Ron Lendon wrote: > > > It's been awhile, as a mater of fact last November > 2006, during CC 10 > that I talked to Mark about doing my heads. He told > me to just scrape > off the rough stuff and ship em. Told me then I was > number 10 in the > Q. I told him I was in no hurry but wanted him to > do his magic to these > 95hp heads which had some broken bolts and bad > exhaust pipes etc. All > this took place over the phone, I have never met > Mark face to face. > > This week the heads arrived and they were in two > boxes and packed very > well. I opened them up and took some pictures to > show you guys just > what kind of work this guy does. I must say I am > very pleased with the > results. > > I don't please all that easy. A little of my > history, 10 years as a > machinist in the Chevrolet Engineering Center / > Powertrain Engineering > prototype shop. I do know good work and Mark at > Falcon Automotive is > doing excellent work. Recommended! > > The before and after pictures are here: > > http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/wsb/html/view.cgi-photos.html-.html > > The files are large, about a CD's worth for each > picture. You have been > warned. > > -- > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder > http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > --------====== > > > > Can someone please post contact information for Falcon? WW mentions them, but I cannot find an address, phone number or web link on his site. Google searches come up with nothing. They must be like Castillo's crankshaft service, word of mouth only. Jim LoBue 601XL #6483, buildng from component kits Wynne Corvair manual #7202 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Al Hays <alhays(at)hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>
Subject: Re: Falcon Heads for corvair Recommended!
Date: Sep 03, 2007
Jim, I had the same experience trying to find that info. Finally found it on WW's website in the 7 Dec 2005 Suppliers Update. The contact info for Mark Petniunas of Falcon Automotive is shown as: 2043 S Fish Hatchery Road Oregon, WI 53575 (608) 835-3317 I think it should have read Fitchburg rather than Oregon in the address. Al On Sep 3, 2007, at 1:01 PM, Jimbo wrote: > > > --- Ron Lendon wrote: > >> >> >> It's been awhile, as a mater of fact last November >> 2006, during CC 10 >> that I talked to Mark about doing my heads. He told >> me to just scrape >> off the rough stuff and ship em. Told me then I was >> number 10 in the >> Q. I told him I was in no hurry but wanted him to >> do his magic to these >> 95hp heads which had some broken bolts and bad >> exhaust pipes etc. All >> this took place over the phone, I have never met >> Mark face to face. >> >> This week the heads arrived and they were in two >> boxes and packed very >> well. I opened them up and took some pictures to >> show you guys just >> what kind of work this guy does. I must say I am >> very pleased with the >> results. >> >> I don't please all that easy. A little of my >> history, 10 years as a >> machinist in the Chevrolet Engineering Center / >> Powertrain Engineering >> prototype shop. I do know good work and Mark at >> Falcon Automotive is >> doing excellent work. Recommended! >> >> The before and after pictures are here: >> >> > http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/wsb/html/view.cgi-photos.html-.html >> >> The files are large, about a CD's worth for each >> picture. You have been >> warned. >> >> -- >> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI >> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder >> http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon >> >> --------====== >> >> >> >> > Can someone please post contact information for > Falcon? > WW mentions them, but I cannot find an address, phone > number or web link on his site. Google searches come > up with nothing. They must be like Castillo's > crankshaft service, word of mouth only. > > Jim LoBue > 601XL #6483, buildng from component kits > Wynne Corvair manual #7202 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2007
From: Jay Caldwell <caldwelljf(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: CH-701 cowling mold
I mentioned I have a cowling mold for a CH-701 with a Subaru installed. I have sinced moved from my Fab site to a hanger in Ramona CA. During the process of relocating AT&T lost my e-mail. Someone was interested and I no longer have their e-mail, so if whoever responded is still interested, e-mail as well as anyone else that may be interested. Jay F. Caldwell Owner, Caldwell Systems Engineering (CSE), LLC 4181 Tamilynn Court San Diego, CA 92122 Voice 858.453.4594 Facsimile 858.452.1560 Work 619.562.0885 Mobile 858.336.0394 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: WW nose bowl disc
William Wynne shows the use of a plywood disc bolted to the prop hub to facilitate the locating of the fiberglass nose bowl. I asked Kevin Fahy about it and he said that it was not just a simple disc, but an assembly of discs. Does anyone have instructions as how to replicate this device? Thanks in advance - Jay in Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 03, 2007
Subject: Re: WW nose bowl disc
I make my own and can send you pics and the measurements but if you look on WW web site I think the measurements are there somewhere. Jeff http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 03, 2007
Subject: Re: 601HD fuel system
I am building a 601HD from plans and have installed fuel tanks on in the wing outer section aft of the main spar (baggage comp.). I would like to route the fuel line through the leading edge but this would require drilling a hole through the main spar web. Has anyone done this, if so did you use a bulkhead fitting or just a grommet? Jerry of GA http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2007
From: "Rob St Denis" <rob(at)iahu.ca>
Subject: chat
8pm edt is coming up ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: 601HD fuel system
Jerry, The grommet would require less inspection attention than a bulkhead fitting but you need a clamp to limit movement one side or the other. I'm curious why you don't bring the fuel along behind the spar in under the seats and go forward thru the center spar to join at a selector valve forward of the spar. Aluminum tube and fittings are easily arranged to do this. You'll also need a convenient accessible connection at the wing joint to be able to remove the wings. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Jeyoung65(at)aol.com wrote: > I am building a 601HD from plans and have installed fuel tanks on in > the wing outer section aft of the main spar (baggage comp.). I would > like to route the fuel line through the leading edge but this would > require drilling a hole through the main spar web. Has anyone done > this, if so did you use a bulkhead fitting or just a grommet? Jerry of GA > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Corvair Bell Housing Needed
From: n282rs(at)satx.rr.com
Date: Sep 04, 2007
Jim I think my hangar mate may have an extra. Why don't you drop him a note and see how much he wants for it. It's Oscar Zuniga taildrags(at)hotmail.com . We are out at San Geronimo Airpark on FM 471 near the Bexar/Medina county line. Stop by when you get back. Oscar has a Pietenpol and I have a 601HD. Randy Stout San Antonio TX n282rs(at)satx.rr.com www.geocities.com/n282rs -----Original Message----- From: Kemter <james.kemter(at)us.army.mil> Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 09:33:29 To:zenith-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair Bell Housing Needed Redeploying from Afghanistan in a few days and have a Corvair engine to start converting upon my return. Anyone have an extra bell housing they'd like to part with? Thanks. Jim K. San Antonio, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132508#132508 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 03, 2007
Subject: Re: 601HD fuel system
I want to reduce the length of fuel line in the cabin also not too sure about running the line throught the same hole with the control tube in the main spar. Guess I could go through another hole. I will use aluminum tube for the fuel system with a break to remove the wings. Jerry of Ga http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Falcon Heads for corvair Recommended!
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 03, 2007
Thats the right address and phone number. Oregon, WI is where I shipped to and it all worked out. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132586#132586 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: EA-81 Stratus Question -- Replacinig PSRU Bearings
From: "Falcon" <crx(at)ubbdev.com>
Date: Sep 03, 2007
And I'll ask on the Stratus list, too, but when I go there, I hear crickets. I need to replace my PSRU bearings -- these are the two 6207-2RS bearings in the large hub. To get to them, I think I need to pull the spindle, by loosening the jam nut on the back of the PSRU. Now, the jam nut is a spanner type, with four rectangular notches, cut into the perimeter of the nut at 90 degree increments. Where do I find a wrench that will handle this? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132587#132587 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Buying aluminium in Australia
From: "Jugle" <glenn(at)eastcoastit.net>
Date: Sep 04, 2007
I've just got a quote for the sheets for my 601XL and the lead time on some thicknesses is 10-12 weeks. I'd like to try and get it all in one go to save on freight. Anyone out there recommend a supplier in Australia? I'm in East Gippsland, Victoria. Glenn. -------- Glenn Andressen 601XL- just started. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132623#132623 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Buying aluminium in Australia
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Sep 04, 2007
Hi Where did you order from? There are a few places on the east coast to buy from. Have you asked any of the other victorian builders where they got theirs? Give me an email off line at sinfield(a)zeta.org.au Chris Sinfield Zodiac Xl Jab 3300 Sydney. PS we welcome another Aussie Xl builder.. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132628#132628 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Johnson" <david_a_g_johnson(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Static ports
Date: Sep 04, 2007
I am planning on fitting the Dynon AOA Pitot head to the 601XL. This does not have a static port, so I will fit ports on either side of the fuselage. I understand the location is critical, so does anyone know where I should put them (practical suggetsions only - this is a family list!!). I have tried the obvious line of e-mailing Zenith, but no response at all. Dave Johnson CH601XL form a CZAW kit ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Static ports
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: Sep 04, 2007
Dave, I asked this very question to ZAC at their Oshkosh booth this year. Nick said the location of a static port was not all that critical. The suggestion was on the fuselage side aft of the wing. Good luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done, engine next. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132634#132634 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Re: Static ports
Date: Sep 04, 2007
Measurement I use in 150mm down from the upper longerons and 150 mm back from the firewall rivet line. Ensure to install two, one on either side of cabin. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- I asked this very question to ZAC at their Oshkosh booth this year. Nick said the location of a static port was not all that critical. The suggestion was on the fuselage side aft of the wing. Good luck, 9:31 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Buying aluminium in Australia
Date: Sep 04, 2007
Glenn, Try H-Aircraft Spares in Moorabbin:- H-Aircraft Spares P/L P.O. Box 503 Braeside 3195 Unit 8/63-65 Voltri Street, Mentone 3194. (opp the Moorabbin Airport) 03 9585 0941 tele 03 9585 0942 fax Cheers Peter Wonthaggi, Vic -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jugle Sent: Tuesday, 4 September 2007 5:29 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Buying aluminium in Australia I've just got a quote for the sheets for my 601XL and the lead time on some thicknesses is 10-12 weeks. I'd like to try and get it all in one go to save on freight. Anyone out there recommend a supplier in Australia? I'm in East Gippsland, Victoria. Glenn. -------- Glenn Andressen 601XL- just started. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132623#132623 9:31 AM 9:31 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2007
From: burbby <burbby(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ho Hum - Not! N8701 validates Zenith Design
Nice looking 701 . Its probly my computer but i had to open the movies with Quick time. Nicely done and your plane looks great. Thanks Gary --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Backfire or Afterfire
From: george.mueller(at)aurora.org
Date: Sep 04, 2007
I am at the point of doing full power run-ups with my Zenith 701 with a rotax 912 UL 80hp installed with a Skyshops firewall forward kit. When I do a full power run up, I get a backfire (or afterfire maybe) after I turn the ignition key to "off". When I taxi around keeping the engine to around 2,000 rpm, this does not happen after shutdown, only after I do a full power run-up. Everything else seems normal as far as I can tell, the engine starts really well, seems to run smoothly, idles well. But after doing three full power run ups, I have had three backfires, all after turning off the ignition. Does anyone on the list have an idea about what might be causing this? George in Milwaukee 701 912UL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Static ports
Why not install the Zenith supplied combo pitot and static source on the same or the other wing? The pitot could be valved to provide an alternate incase the Dynon pitot eats a bug or something. Seems easier than researching a good static point on the fuselage. Dred ---- Dave Johnson wrote: > I am planning on fitting the Dynon AOA Pitot head to the 601XL. This does not have a static port, so I will fit ports on either side of the fuselage. > > I understand the location is critical, so does anyone know where I should put them (practical suggetsions only - this is a family list!!). > > I have tried the obvious line of e-mailing Zenith, but no response at all. > > Dave Johnson > > CH601XL form a CZAW kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jari Kaija (LapTop2)" <jari.kaija(at)pp.inet.fi>
Subject: Re: Backfire or Afterfire
Date: Sep 04, 2007
You are doing WHAT! Turning off ignition, while engine runs at maximum speed? What kind of test is this? Newer heard and I have quite a lott of experience with single piston aeroplanes, since I got my PPL license -96! Don't destroy your engine. Think a while! When you turn ignition off and engine have such kind of rpm. All gasoline/air mix will flow to muffler, because that mix didn't blow out in the cylinders. And muffler, when there is enough gas/air mix in a hot "steel botle", WILL catch fire!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: george.mueller(at)aurora.org To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 4:58 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Backfire or Afterfire I am at the point of doing full power run-ups with my Zenith 701 with a rotax 912 UL 80hp installed with a Skyshops firewall forward kit. When I do a full power run up, I get a backfire (or afterfire maybe) after I turn the ignition key to "off". When I taxi around keeping the engine to around 2,000 rpm, this does not happen after shutdown, only after I do a full power run-up. Everything else seems normal as far as I can tell, the engine starts really well, seems to run smoothly, idles well. But after doing three full power run ups, I have had three backfires, all after turning off the ignition. Does anyone on the list have an idea about what might be causing this? George in Milwaukee 701 912UL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jari Kaija (LapTop2)" <jari.kaija(at)pp.inet.fi>
Subject: Re: Backfire or Afterfire
Date: Sep 04, 2007
...or did you mention fire in the carburetor's intake? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2007
From: "Kevin L. Rupert" <klr12(at)psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Backfire or Afterfire
Mr. Pilot, Ever hear of *AD 76-07-12*,* BENDIX IGNITION SWITCHES? *KLR* * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2007
From: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Backfire or Afterfire
George, I have a similar set up but am still about six months away from run-ups. That being said, sounds like you could have a mixture issue (running rich and loading up the exhust with unburned fuel) but I would be more suspicious of fuel quality. Maybe try a different souce for your fuel. Might be stale fuel or something. Food for thought at least. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder, 912 UL NW Ontario, Canada Working on throttle assy. --- george.mueller(at)aurora.org wrote: > I am at the point of doing full power run-ups with > my Zenith 701 with a > rotax 912 UL 80hp installed with a Skyshops firewall > forward kit. When I > do a full power run up, I get a backfire (or > afterfire maybe) after I turn > the ignition key to "off". When I taxi around > keeping the engine to > around 2,000 rpm, this does not happen after > shutdown, only after I do a > full power run-up. Everything else seems normal as > far as I can tell, the > engine starts really well, seems to run smoothly, > idles well. But after > doing three full power run ups, I have had three > backfires, all after > turning off the ignition. Does anyone on the list > have an idea about what > might be causing this? > > > George in Milwaukee > 701 912UL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2007
From: "Kevin L. Rupert" <klr12(at)psu.edu>
Subject: (no subject)
I know this has nothing to do with Corvairs but I found it interesting reading and thought the list might too. Kevin R. C/XL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2007
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Subject: Re: Static ports
Dave I am planning on using the Dynon AOA Pitot also and using the dual static port kit from Van's ($19). I hope you'll post a photo or two of the pitot installation after you get it in and working. I'm thinking of adding in the surplus differential pressure gage that is commonly used as an LRI idicator and using the Dynon EFIS to calibrate a scale for the gage. (I'm paranoid about failures of electronic gear and like analog backups.) Terry >I am planning on fitting the Dynon AOA Pitot head to the 601XL. This does >not have a static port, so I will fit ports on either side of the fuselage. > >I understand the location is critical, so does anyone know where I should >put them (practical suggetsions only - this is a family list!!). > >I have tried the obvious line of e-mailing Zenith, but no response at all. > >Dave Johnson > >CH601XL form a CZAW kit Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Static ports
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Sep 04, 2007
DrEd, that's a great idea IF you didn't seal up the wings 3 years ago. Terry, A back-up for the AOA really? While nice it is hardly even bordering on critical. Mark, Thanks. I've been looking for a place to put the static ports in for the exact same reason as Dave. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132754#132754 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: (no subject)
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Sep 04, 2007
Well what do you know. The FAA does care about us Auto Coversion guys. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132755#132755 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Static ports
Date: Sep 04, 2007
Zodie- What if they're integral with the pitot? Per Zenith, the attached. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 7:14 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Static ports > > Measurement I use in 150mm down from the upper longerons and 150 mm back > from the firewall rivet line. Ensure to install two, one on either side > of cabin. > > Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario > Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started > www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com > > -----Original Message----- > I asked this very question to ZAC at their Oshkosh booth this year. > Nick said the location of a static port was not all that critical. The > suggestion was on the fuselage side aft of the wing. > > Good luck, > > > > 9:31 AM > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EA-81 Stratus Question -- Replacinig PSRU Bearings
From: "Falcon" <crx(at)ubbdev.com>
Date: Sep 04, 2007
Larry Macfarland caught up with me on the Stratus list. Thanks everyone! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132775#132775 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Re: Static ports
Date: Sep 04, 2007
That will work just fine Bill. The fuselage mount is for those who only have a Pitot tube only. Or an AOA. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- Zodie- What if they're integral with the pitot? Per Zenith, the attached. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- 9:14 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2007
From: Bob Sturgis <bobefx(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: New to list
Hi, I am bobefx in southern California. I am building a 601XL QB kit. I have the rudder, horz stab, elevator, left wing and landing gear done. I found some things that I am concerned about in the kit. 1. The fuel tank vent and quick drain holes in the leading edge skin did not line up with the tank. Any one had that problem? 2. The elevator stops were placed right next to the elevator hole, in the way of the bolt and nut to operate the elevator. Any one had that problem? 3. Some holes were smaller than they should have been to accept the rivet, and others were elongated. It seems that Zenith has a quality control problem. Has anyone had any problems with their QB kit and if so what? Thank you Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2007
From: Bob Duns <rduns(at)sasktel.net>
Subject: Re: WW nose bowl disc
Jeff: I too am planning to build my own nosebowl for 601HD/Corvair and am very much interested in your specs. The pics were great but measurements would sure help, also materials list used. The measurements that I found on WW website were minimal. Thanks. Bob D. Melfort, SK 601HD/Corvair ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2007
From: "Frank Derfler" <fderfler(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Static Ports
DAVE and TERRY: I have the Dynon AoA and I'm sorry I paid the money for it. (This in a 601XL) I've replaced everything from the pitot on in while trying to get it to work effectively. It's been calibrated by experienced test pilots a number of times. It jumps, it twitters, it bounces around. Any "reading" you extrapolate is by eyeball averaging the jumping around over a range. And at that point in the flight you have better uses for your eyeballs! Even an experienced Navy carrier pilot laughed at trying to use it to maintain a constant angle of attack. For me, it's useless. From my experience, I wish I'd have spent the money elsewhere (specifically on a backup AI of some sort.) That said, I plan to go flying on Thursday. I'll take pictures of the static ports and post them. -- Frank Derfler -- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com - Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM -Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at www.KEYSBOATER.com -For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flight Crafters and Zenith Distributing NEW LOCATION
Date: Sep 05, 2007
From: rlaviation(at)aol.com
Greetings to Everyone! Flight Crafters (Experimental and Kit Built Builder Assistance Center) and Zenith Distributing, LLC (Southeastern Distributor of Zenith Aircraft Kits,Parts, & Accessories) have completed their move to a NEW location. We are still located adjacent to the Zephyrhills, Florida Municipal Airport (www.zephyrhills-airport.com), but we have moved to a new building. The address is: 40417 Chancey Road #102 Zephyrhills, Fl 33542. Our phone numbers remain the same (813-779-1156 (telephone), 813-690-1916(Russell Lepre'), 813-695-1120 (Bob Berube),813-779-7582 FAX. Keep checking our website (www.flightcrafters.com) or (www.zenithdistributing.com) for pictures, maps, and our latest projects. Russell Lepre' / Bob Berube ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Static ports
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Sep 05, 2007
Frank, have you talked to Dynon about the problem and if so what did they say? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132881#132881 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: More on the backfire
From: george.mueller(at)aurora.org
Date: Sep 05, 2007
Just to clarify my previous message about backfiring on shut down, I was not turning the ignition off during the full power run up, but would get a backfire after doing a full power run up, backing the throttle back down to 1800 rpm, letting it run at 1800 rpm for about 15 seconds, and then shutting the engine off. The rpms would wind down after the key was turned to off, followed by a "bang" at the very end, then silence, except for the snickering coming from nearby hangers. I am doing the full power run ups to check the pitch on my prop. I found it very interesting, however, that the NASCAR folks check plugs by doing a shut down at full throttle. I called Lockwood on this in addition to asking this list, and they said to synch the carbs. Even though I asked them to explain it to me twice, I am not entirely clear about the connection between the out of synch carbs and the backfire, but it had something to do with the extra vibration moving a needle in the carb and spilling fuel or something. So I will synch the carbs. Another viable theory contributed by the list is stale fuel. I am using autogas from the airport, but it has been sitting in my tanks for a couple of months while I finish the airplane. I actually put Stable in the gas a while back because my understanding is that if you are going to keep autogas in your tanks more than 60 days you should add a fuel stabilizer. So I will put in some fresh gas and see if that helps. I will also let the engine idle longer before shutting down. George in Milwaukee 701 912UL ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: More on the backfire
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Sep 05, 2007
An outright backfire (not an engine knock or ping) would come from excess fuel igniting in the intake manifold. I would guess the excess fuel would be coming from the fact that even though you're turning off the engine, at 1800 rpms it's still pulling a lot of air (and fuel) through the carbs. Even so, that excess fuel should still be pulled through the cylinders even if it's not getting burned. So you have to ask yourself, what's the ignition source in the intake manifold? Could it be a stuck valve or hot carbon deposits on a valve that's causing the mixture to get an ignition source. Are the head gaskets good or could compression be leaking back and causing a pressure buildup in the intake manifold and causing a dieseling type of ignition. Does the carb have an accellerator pump that's maybe leaking and allowing too much fuel in? How good does the engine run in general? What kind of an engine is it. A Lycoming 0-200 occasionally backfires when you turn it off per the book (idle speed then cut the fuel off). -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132885#132885 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Backfire or Afterfire
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Sep 05, 2007
Apparently heat is involved. I'm sure the engine is a lot hotter after a full power run up. Even so, you really shouldn't be shutting down and engine at full power. I don't think it will hurt the engine, unless a backfire blows out a gasket somewhere, but even so, there's no reason to be shutting down at full power. Looking at a fellow builders 912 I can see that the carbs on those things aren't very complicated. It's not like a car engine that has an O2 sensor and all kinds of other engine management systems. That being said, it's easy to create a situation where you can fool the engine into behaving badly. An airplane engine isn't meant to be much more than an adjustable oversized lawner engine. It provides power, but it's not meant to be revved up and down and all over. It's meant more for slower, more controlled inputs. [quote="george.mueller(at)aurora."]I am at the point of doing full power run-ups with my Zenith 701 with a rotax 912 UL 80hp installed with a Skyshops firewall forward kit. When I do a full power run up, I get a backfire (or afterfire maybe) after I turn the ignition key to "off". When I taxi around keeping the engine to around 2,000 rpm, this does not happen after shutdown, only after I do a full power run-up. Everything else seems normal as far as I can tell, the engine starts really well, seems to run smoothly, idles well. But after doing three full power run ups, I have had three backfires, all after turning off the ignition. Does anyone on the list have an idea about what might be causing this? George in Milwaukee 701 912UL > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132887#132887 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: British 601 Crash (was: 601 Crash)
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Sep 05, 2007
amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: > If it was lighter it would stall, but with more stuff inside it, the wings will start to complain. We are flying a sport pilot rated arecraft that is robust, not an EXTRA 300. > > Juan > > -- Actually, I'm sure it's even more likely to be stalling at a higher rate of speed, it's just that there's a lot more drag on the wing at higher speeds and that's what's snapping the wings. A lightly loaded plane and a heavily loaded plane, pulled up quickly, will exert just as much stress on the wings, the only difference is the lighter plane will climb 50 or 100 feet while the wings fail where as the heavier plane will just continue in a straight line while the wings break off. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132890#132890 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Another quick bungee tool for the XL nose gear.
I just figured out how to stretch the bungee ring to get it into position on the XL nose gear. I started with a piece of 1 inch PVC pipe with one end cut at a 45 degree angle. After positioning the bungee ring in the hook at the aft side of the nose gear column I placed the pipe through the ring with the point over the front tube. Just a simple lift of the pipe and the bungee stretched and slid right into place. I doubt this method will help with removing the ring or doing anything with it when the engine is installed, but it got me past this point in the build. Paul XL fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Painting Layout
Date: Sep 05, 2007
From: japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Don't use regular masking tape to separate two different colors because it will leak and bleed. Use vinyell or plastic painter's tape from an auto paint store. -----Original Message----- From: dredmoody(at)cox.net Sent: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 2:48 pm Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Painting Layout Don't use the blue or the purple painter's tape to do your actual masking on the plane. It will leak paint at places no matter how hard you try to stop it. That stuff only works reasonably for latex paints in my experience. Use that blue stuff to mark where the next color will be. Then position real masking tape next to the painter's tape using it as a guide. Once the masking tape is in place, the painter's tape is removed and the painting continues. That way you have the ease of placement and removal offered by the blue stuff to set the design then the superioir sealing of regular masking tape when you are painting. Dred ---- GLENN JOHNSON wrote: > > I HAVEN'T PAINTED YET, BUT I WILL TRY USING PAINTERS TAPE UNTIL I GET IT LIKE I WANT IT. IT FLEXES WELL AND SHOULDN'T PULL PAINT OFF. I USE THE BLUE FROM SCOTCH ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Another quick bungee tool for the XL nose gear.
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Date: Sep 05, 2007
How about a picture of your tool? Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132925#132925 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2007
From: "kensmith(at)springnet1.com" <kensmith(at)springnet1.com>
Subject: Re: Static ports
Dynon had a software update several years ago to eliminate the problem of erratic angle-of-attack readings. The location of the pitot also plays a major role in the proper indications. Gig Giacona wrote: > >Frank, have you talked to Dynon about the problem and if so what did they say? > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132881#132881 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Another quick bungee tool for the XL nose gear.
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: Sep 05, 2007
For me the best tool I have found for the nose gear bungee (that i got off this Matronics site) is a 1/2" socket breaker bar. The 1/2" square drive fits in the gear strut hole and by pulling the handle of the breaker bar up, the bungee slides easily on. Good luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done, engine next. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132937#132937 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Hoak" <planejim(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: More on the backfire
Date: Sep 05, 2007
George, I too operate a 912UL 80 HP ( 553 hrs ). The "cooling down" procedure that I use is to operate the engine at about 2400 / 2500 RPM for a minute or two before turning off the ignition - the way the Rotax engine is shut down - no mixture control! I seem to remember reading about this procedure somewhere, but it isn't in the Operators Manual. I've never experienced " backfire" or "afterfire" Rotax does mention that " After a full-load ground test a short cooling run is necessary to prevent vapour formation in the cylinder head" This appears in the "Warming up period, ground test" section of the manual. This may be referring to the cooling system. I understand the need of high power runs to set the prop but I suggest keeping the high power ground runs to a minimum and check the engine RPM / Prop Settings during a flight around the pattern. As long as all blades are the same angle and close to your final setting this has seemed to work for me. Just my thoughts. Jim Hoak 601HD ----- Original Message ----- From: george.mueller(at)aurora.org To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:10 AM Subject: Zenith-List: More on the backfire Just to clarify my previous message about backfiring on shut down, I was not turning the ignition off during the full power run up, but would get a backfire after doing a full power run up, backing the throttle back down to 1800 rpm, letting it run at 1800 rpm for about 15 seconds, and then shutting the engine off. The rpms would wind down after the key was turned to off, followed by a "bang" at the very end, then silence, except for the snickering coming from nearby hangers. I am doing the full power run ups to check the pitch on my prop. I found it very interesting, however, that the NASCAR folks check plugs by doing a shut down at full throttle. I called Lockwood on this in addition to asking this list, and they said to synch the carbs. Even though I asked them to explain it to me twice, I am not entirely clear about the connection between the out of synch carbs and the backfire, but it had something to do with the extra vibration moving a needle in the carb and spilling fuel or something. So I will synch the carbs. Another viable theory contributed by the list is stale fuel. I am using autogas from the airport, but it has been sitting in my tanks for a couple of months while I finish the airplane. I actually put Stable in the gas a while back because my understanding is that if you are going to keep autogas in your tanks more than 60 days you should add a fuel stabilizer. So I will put in some fresh gas and see if that helps. I will also let the engine idle longer before shutting down. George in Milwaukee 701 912UL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry Hey <jerryhey(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Bending Brake for 701
Date: Sep 05, 2007
What length bending brake is needed for the 701? I have a good brake but only 52 inches. Thanks, Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2007
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: British 601 Crash (was: 601 Crash)
> > amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: >> If it was lighter it would stall, but with more stuff inside it, the wings will start to complain. We are flying a sport pilot rated arecraft that is robust, not an EXTRA 300. >> >> Juan >> >> -- > > > > Actually, I'm sure it's even more likely to be stalling at a higher rate of speed, it's just that there's a lot more drag on the wing at higher speeds and that's what's snapping the wings. A lightly loaded plane and a heavily loaded plane, pulled up quickly, will exert just as much stress on the wings, the only difference is the lighter plane will climb 50 or 100 feet while the wings fail where as the heavier plane will just continue in a straight line while the wings break off. > > -------- > Andy Shontz Not quite. There are two ways to stall an airplane, keep the G loading constant and reduce the speed or keep the speed constant and increase the G loading. In other words, for any particular airspeed, there is a maximum amount of lift that the wings can generate, beyond that point the wing will stall. For any aircraft, the rated clean stall speed (Vs) is the speed at which the wings can just generate enough lift to carry the gross weight of the airplane. At higher speeds than Vs, the wings can generate more lift than the max gross weight of the airplane but they can still be made to stall if the G loading is increased enough. If the airspeed is higher than maneuvering speed (Va), the G loading that will cause the wings to stall exceeds the maximum flight G loading of the structure. In other words, the wings can generate more lift than the structure can safely handle. This is what causes wings to fail during a sharp pull-up at high speeds. Drag is not generally going to be a factor in structural failure unless you significantly exceed Vne because most aircraft are designed to tolerate their maximum flight G loading at Vne without damage. -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bending Brake for 701
From: "bryanekholm" <ekholmbk(at)lakedalelink.net>
Date: Sep 05, 2007
A six foot brake should be long enough to bend all of the parts. I'm not certain how long the elevator and horizontal stabilizer spars are, but I'm thinking they are right at about 6 feet. I don't have my plans available to look at right now. Bryan Ekholm -------- Bryan Ekholm Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132957#132957 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2007
From: richard priebus <rpriebus(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: ICS Plus nav/com needed
Hi, I'm in need of an ics plus nav/com dead or alive. I also need a schematic as I can't find anyone who can repair an ICS Plus. if anybody has one for sale, please contact me by email at rpriebus(at)yahoo.com. Do not archive. Thanks for reading this. Richard Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2007
From: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Bending Brake for 701
Almost all bends on the 701 can be done on a on a 72 inch break except the elevator and H-stab spars. The require a 96 inch break. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch builder NW Ontario, Canada --- Jerry Hey wrote: > > > What length bending brake is needed for the 701? I > have a good > brake but only 52 inches. Thanks, Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: EMS
I have a Dynon EMS-D10. Has anyone figured out how to get a tachometer read-out with a Corvair engine? I called Dynon and they were absolutely no help. Jay in Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: water pump anyone?
Hi Guys, I decided to buy a water pump for the Stratus Subaru EA-81 as these tend to fail with some warning, but on their own schedule. So it seemed prudent to have spare parts, belts, plugs, filters, etc. The EA-81 has been a great performer with exceptional economy. I ordered a water pump for $26.00 at my local auto parts store. For the car data, it turned out not to be the correct one. The pulley (which was not included) was to be fastened with 4 bolts (not included) and the later than 1984 design pressed steel impeller is reported to self-destruct at high rpm. I visited *OReillys auto parts web site and found that the part number for the correct pump is* *57-1042*. This pump has the preferred cast impeller, the correct mushroom shaped pulley (attached) and it is listed for $26.99 less $3.00 core-exchange if you happen to need one. Data used for both was *Brat 1.8 pickup truck 1982-1987*. Another source part number for it is 53105, GMB water pump. Both are built by Cardone Industries. Stratus only provides Atsugi as "Specification" for the pump which is interpreted to mean it has "its own" characteristics. No one flies 100 horsepower pound for pound as inexpensively as the Subaru EA-81. Tuck this info into your Stratus manual or reference information and avoid the 48 hours of bewilderment. Happy flying guys, Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EMS
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Sep 05, 2007
This little Gizmo is the key. http://www.msdignition.com/2006/06-22.htm I'm just not sure yet where the lock is. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132984#132984 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "R.P." <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Bending Brake for 701
Date: Sep 05, 2007
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Hey" <jerryhey(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:49 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Bending Brake for 701 > > What length bending brake is needed for the 701? I have a good brake > but only 52 inches. Thanks, Jerry I don't know what the longest part is on a 701, but I was able to bend almost everything I needed for a 601 on a 4-foot brake. I ALSO took a few sheets of aluminum over to a local sheet metal fabrication shop and had them cut &bend the aft spars and a couple other large pieces. They sheared and bent all the"L"'s I needed for the project too. The fab shop charged $100 for all this. A lot cheaper than buying a 8 foot brake! Rick ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2007
From: Dan Lykowski <engineerguy3737(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: EMS
Gig, I have been looking at these.. I don't know if the signal they put out is too noisy or not.. If someone wants to give it a shot, it does put out the correct voltages and its only $40.. I would try it myself, but my engine is nowhere near ready for it. I'm trying to convince my wife to let me go to college #11. Dan Lykowski Dynon Avionics ----- Original Message ---- From: Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2007 5:27:25 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: EMS This little Gizmo is the key. http://www.msdignition.com/2006/06-22.htm I'm just not sure yet where the lock is. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132984#132984 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graeme" <graeme(at)coletoolcentre.com.au>
Subject: Re: Bending Brake for 701
Date: Sep 06, 2007
Hi rick did you have any trouble getting them to ajust their bender to get the right radius of the bends. most have there bender set with the wrong radius and don't like changing their machine Graemecns ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.P." <zodie(at)adelphia.net> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending Brake for 701 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Hey" <jerryhey(at)earthlink.net> > To: "Zenith" > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:49 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Bending Brake for 701 > > >> >> What length bending brake is needed for the 701? I have a good brake >> but only 52 inches. Thanks, Jerry > > I don't know what the longest part is on a 701, but I was able to bend > almost everything I needed for a 601 on a 4-foot brake. I ALSO took a few > sheets of aluminum over to a local sheet metal fabrication shop and had > them cut &bend the aft spars and a couple other large pieces. They sheared > and bent all the"L"'s I needed for the project too. > The fab shop charged $100 for all this. A lot cheaper than buying a 8 foot > brake! > > Rick > > > -- > 269.13.6/991 - Release Date: 5/09/2007 2:55 PM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2007
From: "Don Baker" <dbaker(at)sbuniv.edu>
Subject: 601 HDS stall spead
I am test flying a 601 HDS and getting a stall speed of 75 MPH. What stall speed do you get with the HDS wing? Don ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bending Brake for 701
Date: Sep 05, 2007
From: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" <Keith.Ashcraft(at)itt.com>
Part #7H2-2 Stabilizer Rear Spar is 2220mm (87.4") long. The other long part is 7H2-8 at 2180mm (85.8").Another suggestion could be to purchase it, by itself, (or other parts that are too big for the 72" brake) from Zenith. The current Zenith Data Base shows the 7H2-2 for $57, and 7H2-8 for $72, or as Rick suggested, find a local metal worker and "Supervise his work", making sure the bending radius is not too sharp, or your metal may end up cracking. Good Luck!! Keith CH701 scratch builder N 38.9947 W 105.1305 Alt. 9,100' ************************************************************************* ********************* -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of R.P. Sent: Wed 9/5/2007 6:17 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending Brake for 701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Hey" <jerryhey(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:49 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Bending Brake for 701 > > What length bending brake is needed for the 701? I have a good brake > but only 52 inches. Thanks, Jerry I don't know what the longest part is on a 701, but I was able to bend almost everything I needed for a 601 on a 4-foot brake. I ALSO took a few sheets of aluminum over to a local sheet metal fabrication shop and had them cut &bend the aft spars and a couple other large pieces. They sheared and bent all the"L"'s I needed for the project too. The fab shop charged $100 for all this. A lot cheaper than buying a 8 foot brake! Rick ***************************************************************** This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporation. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. ******************************************************************* ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2007
From: Art Gibeaut <aagibeaut(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 701 Kit Info
Art, I got my wing component kit a couple of months ago, and they have the pre-drilled holes in the skins. I was apprehensive at first, but when I got to the point where I set the nose skin with bottom pre-drilled holes over the front edge of the bottom skin pre-drilled holes--they lined up perfectl y. I only have this much of the building under my belt, but I'd opt for the pre-drilled. Maybe someone else is further along, like John M. in Seattle. He has the wings done and is starting the fuselage. Just google "Building a CH701 in Seattle". He responds right away to Emails and has been a big he lp to me.=0A=0AArt Gibeaut=0ACH 701 maybe 20% done.=0AErie, IL=0A=0ADo not archive=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Art Olechowski <ifly4fu n2(at)sbcglobal.net>=0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, Septem ber 5, 2007 8:17:13 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: 701 Kit Info=0A=0A=0AList, =0AI'm extremely close in pulling the trigger for the 701 kit but I need so me advise. I've read that there has been issues in the past with pre-drill ed holes. I'm curious if the issues have been resolved or if I should requ est the kit un-drilled to avoid dealing with the frustration of getting rep lacement parts and wasting time. Has anyone experienced this lately? =0A ======================0A=0A=0A =0A____________________________________________________________________ ________________Ready for the edge of your seat? =0ACheck out tonight's top ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Static ports
Hi David, Actually, it seems Nick is not an expert on this particular subject. The position of static ports is indeed critical if you want accurate readings on your instruments. You want to place the static ports somewhere so that there is no ram air pressure going into them or vacuum created around them. The position you mentioned, aft of the wing on the fuselage side, would probably have some vacuum because of the ever narrowing fuselage at that point. If you want to put the static ports on the fuselage side, I think you should find a location where the fuselage is exactly parallel to the air flow in flight. The pitot/static probe provided with the XL kit has three static ports located around a small tube near the ram air probe. This should indeed provide an unbiased measure point for static air pressure. Paul XL fuselage At 04:00 AM 9/4/2007, you wrote: >Dave, > >I asked this very question to ZAC at their Oshkosh booth this >year. Nick said the location of a static port was not all that >critical. The suggestion was on the fuselage side aft of the wing. > >Good luck, > >-------- >David Gallagher ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Re: Static ports
Date: Sep 05, 2007
In a Way both Nick and Paul are correct even though it seems to be a differing opinion. I discussed this with Chris and he explained it by stating that there is a small boundary layer adhered to the fuselage sides that resides a dead static pressure air. As long as a force is not applied in a side load and the static port is installed flush with the skins then it will work in almost any position. Though the best area I have seen is in the Fuselage cabin area near the pilots knee. I have located both of my static ports 150 mm back from the firewall rivet line and 150mm down from the Longerons. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 10:24 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Static ports Hi David, Actually, it seems Nick is not an expert on this particular subject. The position of static ports is indeed critical if you want accurate readings on your instruments. You want to place the static ports somewhere so that there is no ram air pressure going into them or vacuum created around them. The position you mentioned, aft of the wing on the fuselage side, would probably have some vacuum because of the ever narrowing fuselage at that point. If you want to put the static ports on the fuselage side, I think you should find a location where the fuselage is exactly parallel to the air flow in flight. The pitot/static probe provided with the XL kit has three static ports located around a small tube near the ram air probe. This should indeed provide an unbiased measure point for static air pressure. Paul XL fuselage At 04:00 AM 9/4/2007, you wrote: >Dave, > >I asked this very question to ZAC at their Oshkosh booth this >year. Nick said the location of a static port was not all that >critical. The suggestion was on the fuselage side aft of the wing. > >Good luck, > >-------- >David Gallagher 10:36 PM 10:36 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bending Brake for 701
From: "rickpitcher" <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Sep 05, 2007
graeme(at)coletoolcentre. wrote: > Hi rick > > did you have any trouble getting them to ajust their bender to get the right > radius of the bends. > most have there bender set with the wrong radius and don't like changing > their machine > > Graemecns > > --- Good point Graeme. The shop I went to is a sheet metal fabrication shop, not an Air Conditioning duct shop. The AC guys do use a tighter bend radius, but they can make adjustments if they know what you expect. Someone else mentioned that you'd want to supervise them. Good idea. Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133022#133022 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: EMS
Date: Sep 05, 2007
I had one of the MSD GMR ignition sensors but never hooked it up. I loaned it to Scott Laughlin but he could not get it to work with his dedicated tach. You might have better luck getting it to work with an engine monitor. I'm not certain if Scott still has the one I sent him but he might be willing to pass it on to someone to experiment with. They are not cheap. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC??
Date: Sep 06, 2007
From: n787xl(at)aol.com
List We were promised by Zenith new structural? testing after rash of 601XL wing failures?? With unbiased observer also! Did I miss something? JES ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net>
Subject: Finishing Rudder?
Date: Sep 05, 2007
Gang: The photo guide for the rudder ends before the lower fairing, control horn and hinges are installed. Is there a photo guide which covers finishing the rudder and installing it on the fuselage? Or do you just work off the plans? Is there an "accepted way to line everything up and hold it in place before installing the hinges? Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graeme" <graeme(at)coletoolcentre.com.au>
Subject: Re: Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC??
Date: Sep 06, 2007
you may have missed it but pictures of new testing on website. Graemecns ----- Original Message ----- From: n787xl(at)aol.com To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC?? List We were promised by Zenith new structural testing after rash of 601XL wing failures With unbiased observer also! Did I miss something? JES ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 5/09/2007 2:55 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC??
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Sep 06, 2007
Saw the pictures on the website, but does anyone know when we will get to see the data?? thats the info I want to digest.. Mark got any Ideas when we can expext Chris to release that info? Chris From a long way Down Under. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133044#133044 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC??
Date: Sep 06, 2007
HYPERLINK "http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo-testing.html"http://www.zenitha ir.com/zodiac/6-photo-testing.html The Testing was done and yes you missed it when I announced it to this list awhile back. The test was done by a 3rd party and not by Zenith. The results were simply that the plane passed it=92s design characteristics, and was done to accepted standards. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of n787xl(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 1:16 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC?? List We were promised by Zenith new structural testing after rash of 601XL wing failures With unbiased observer also! Did I miss something? JES _____ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free HYPERLINK "http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?nc id=AOLAOF00020000000970" \nAOL Mail! "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 10:36 PM 10:36 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Ray" <davgray(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: EMS
Date: Sep 06, 2007
I tried two of these units thinking the first one was defective but I also had no joy. The tech support was not helpful. I connected these as per instructions and fed the signal to a VDO tach. I wish I had a scope to view the signal that the company said should be present which is a square wave of 1/3 cycle duration. I was not able to detect any voltage output from the unit on my digital meter. I sent them back. Gary Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: EMS > > This little Gizmo is the key. http://www.msdignition.com/2006/06-22.htm > > I'm just not sure yet where the lock is. > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132984#132984 > > > -- 10:36 PM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: British 601 Crash (was: 601 Crash)
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 06, 2007
A simple way to look at wing loading, G forces, and structural failure point is to bring everything down to a common denominator; load vs. lift. For simplicity, I am just making up numbers, but the concepts are valid. Say you have a 1000lb max gross airplane with structural limit of 6G's. 6G x 1000 = 6000lb on the wings will break them off. Now look at lift. At stall speed at 1G, the max lift generated by the wings = 1000lb. At Va, stall will occur just before we exceed the design load, (for simplicity we'll use the ultimate load, but in practice you would use a more conservative loading). So at Va, stall will occur just before 6G, so the max lift generated by the wings at that speed = just under 6000lb. The faster you go, the more lift the wings generate, therefore going any faster than Va the wings can generate more than 6000 lb of lift. Say you are at Va +10 mph and the wings at that speed produce 10% more lift, therefore, stall will not occur until you load the wings to 6600lbs, far greater than the failure point. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133050#133050 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2007
From: "Leo Gates" <leo(at)zuehlfield.com>
Subject: Re: 601 HDS stall spead
Don, Stall speed is relative to aircraft weight. I tested with two GPS' s running, just to be sure, and both read within .2 mph. I made triangular runs in calm air on headings of 000, 120 and 240 degrees. Tested at 2,00 0' msl +- 50'. I recorded mag heading, OAT, IAS (at what appeared onset of mush on the VSI) and Ground speed. Tested at 1,000 lbs., 1,500 lbs and 1 200 lbs. Test runs were done at idle and about 40% power. IAS was converted to CAL airspeed. My POH says the plane stalls at 49 mph . My pitot tube is ACS with an integral static port mounted on the bottom of the left wing, just forward of the spar and about 2' outboard of the center section joint line. FWIW my IAS will drop all the way to 37mph at a high mush" (really high angle of attack) and then fall off to zero. Leo Gates N601Z, CH601HDS TDO -------Original Message------- From: Don Baker Date: 9/5/2007 8:52:59 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 601 HDS stall spead I am test flying a 601 HDS and getting a stall speed of 75 MPH. What sta ll speed do you get with the HDS wing? Don ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Finishing Rudder?
Andy, I followed the plans and just located the hinge points on the rudder as they are dimensioned on the drawings. When I went to connect the rudder to the fuselage, I found that I had to shim the upper hinge plate; about .040" if I remember correctly. I would suggest that you not install the upper hinge bracket until you can locate it using the fuselage hinge plates. Jay in Dallas "Dr. Andrew Elliott" wrote: >Gang: > >The photo guide for the rudder ends before the lower fairing, control horn and hinges are installed. Is there a photo guide which covers finishing the rudder and installing it on the fuselage? Or do you just work off the plans? Is there an "accepted way to line everything up and hold it in place before installing the hinges? > >Thanks, >Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ >N601GE (reserved) >601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)primus.ca>
Subject: Re: 601 HDS stall spead
Date: Sep 06, 2007
Don, what weight were you flying at? My 601 with 912 stalled at 55 mph without VGs. Now 50 with VGs. I'm intereste to know why yours is so high. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: 601 HDS stall spead
Don, My HDS stalls at 50 mph fully loaded. I can't see how you can manage to stall out at 75. That's the speed you should be on final approach. Lightly loaded, full fueled header and just me it's 46 mph. Perhaps you need to look closer at your airspeed indicator and pitot system. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Don Baker wrote: > > I am test flying a 601 HDS and getting a stall speed of 75 MPH. What stall speed do you get with the HDS wing? Don > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC??
there was no "rash of wing failures" two crsahed due to wings bending too much , the other crashed due to suspected engine falling to pieces in flight. I love the journalist embelishments. for what it does, the 601 is a good over built plane, so long as built right and flown within its limits. Let move on. -----Original Message----- >From: ZodieRocket <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> >Sent: Sep 6, 2007 7:08 AM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC?? > >HYPERLINK >"http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo-testing.html"http://www.zenitha >ir.com/zodiac/6-photo-testing.html > >The Testing was done and yes you missed it when I announced it to this >list awhile back. The test was done by a 3rd party and not by Zenith. >The results were simply that the plane passed its design >characteristics, and was done to accepted standards. > >Mark Townsend >Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. >HYPERLINK >"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com >HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >n787xl(at)aol.com >Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 1:16 AM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC?? > >List > >We were promised by Zenith new structural testing after rash of 601XL >wing failures With unbiased observer also! > >Did I miss something? > >JES > > _____ > >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free HYPERLINK >"http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?nc >id=AOLAOF00020000000970" \nAOL Mail! > > >"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com >/Navigator?Zenith-List >"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com > > >10:36 PM > > >10:36 PM > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC??
there was no "rash of wing failures" two crsahed due to wings bending too much , the other crashed due to suspected engine falling to pieces in flight. I love the journalist embelishments. for what it does, the 601 is a good over built plane, so long as built right and flown within its limits. Let move on. -----Original Message----- >From: ZodieRocket <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> >Sent: Sep 6, 2007 7:08 AM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC?? > >HYPERLINK >"http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo-testing.html"http://www.zenitha >ir.com/zodiac/6-photo-testing.html > >The Testing was done and yes you missed it when I announced it to this >list awhile back. The test was done by a 3rd party and not by Zenith. >The results were simply that the plane passed its design >characteristics, and was done to accepted standards. > >Mark Townsend >Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. >HYPERLINK >"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com >HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >n787xl(at)aol.com >Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 1:16 AM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC?? > >List > >We were promised by Zenith new structural testing after rash of 601XL >wing failures With unbiased observer also! > >Did I miss something? > >JES > > _____ > >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free HYPERLINK >"http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?nc >id=AOLAOF00020000000970" \nAOL Mail! > > >"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com >/Navigator?Zenith-List >"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com > > >10:36 PM > > >10:36 PM > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Al Hays <alhays(at)hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>
Subject: Re: 601 HDS stall spead
Date: Sep 06, 2007
Hey Guys, For what it's worth, 75 KPH equates to about 46 or 47 MPH. Just coincidence? Al Hays 601XL - starting fuselage On Sep 6, 2007, at 9:32 AM, LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > > Don, > My HDS stalls at 50 mph fully loaded. I can't see how you can manage > to stall out at 75. That's the speed you should be on final approach. > Lightly loaded, full fueled header and just me it's 46 mph. Perhaps > you need to look closer at your airspeed indicator and pitot system. > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > Don Baker wrote: >> >> I am test flying a 601 HDS and getting a stall speed of 75 MPH. What >> stall speed do you get with the HDS wing? Don >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: Stratus-List: water pump anyone?
Hi Frank, I dont think theres anything to prevent the EA-81 Subaru from reaching 2500 hours with proper maintenance. Ive witnessed several of $22K certified engines at our airport going thru overhaul at $7 to $9K, getting new magnetos at $1K and requiring other parts that are just breathtakingly expensive. The Subaru needs about $500 parts to do an overhaul. Im able to selectively burn 3.5 to 4.5 gal per hour of 87-octane at <$3/gal. Our fields 100LL is over $4.50 gal. You only have to do the numbers to see the economy of this engine. I agree that the $600 heads rework by Ram Performance was necessary for peace of mind. The most satisfying part of the Subaru is its very quiet, relative to my friends RV6 certified air-cooled engine. The OHV Subaru has a distinctive sound that says smooth. Recent data shows the 100 hp Subaru has as much or more hp per pound than 100 hp certified engines. Step up to a $14K 3300 or a $22K 0360 and its a whole other story, The $7K paid for the Stratus engine is matched by a low price for any part on it, and its mostly locally available. Spark plugs are still $2.25. What more could one ask of it, perhaps, just be able to go faster? Everything has an appropriate price. Then, it becomes your preference. Im very pleased with the Stratus Subaru and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > --> Stratus-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > Oh don't you just love a naysayer...but here goes..:) > Your last statement about the economy. I don't think you can really say > that Larry until you know how long Stratus lasts. > > Secondly, if your simply comparing fuel costs then airplane motors (at > least fuel injected ones) can be run more economically than the Stratus > simply because you can run the engine lean or peak exhaust as > temperature. > > My 190Hp IO360 will normally run 10GPH but that can be got doen to 7gph > running on the lean side of peak EGT...this has a significant effect on > fuel caosts and as almost all airplane motors can be run on auto fuel > then the comparison could be a lot closer than you might think. > > On the whole though, with sorted valve guides, the Stratus setup is a > sweet little motor. > > All the best > > Frank > 601HDS 400 hours > RV7a IO360 21o hours in one year...YIKES! > > > No one flies 100 horsepower pound for pound as inexpensively as the > Subaru EA-81. > > Happy flying guys, > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2007
From: "Dave Nixon" <adnasap(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Zenith 601XL POH needed
I am in the process of finishing up up a CH601XL. Does anyone have acces s to or tell me how to get a POH that I can copy/change? I need it for my airworthiness application. Dave Nixon, Florida CH601XL, N107R ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GLENN JOHNSON <gljno10(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Finishing Rudder?
Date: Sep 06, 2007
Andy My construction manual says to not put the hinges on the rudder untill you are ready to put it on the fuselage so that it will all mattch up. Mine di d match the drawing, but it could be a problem down the road if hinges are already riveted intoplace.> Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 08:59:16 -0400> From: Jay bannist(at)cs.com> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fi Andy,> > I followed the plans and just located the hinge points on the rudd er as they are dimensioned on the drawings. When I went to connect the rudd er to the fuselage, I found that I had to shim the upper hinge plate; about .040" if I remember correctly. I would suggest that you not install the up per hinge bracket until you can locate it using the fuselage hinge plates.> > Jay in Dallas > > > "Dr. Andrew Elliott" wrote:> > >Gang:> >> >The photo guide for the rudder ends before the lower fairing, control horn and hinges are installed. Is there a photo guide which covers finishing the rudder and installing it on the fuselage? Or do you just work off the plans? Is there an "accepted way to line everything up and hold it in place before installing the hinges?> >> >Thanks,> >Andy Elliott, Mesa, ========> > > _________________________________________________________________ Explore the seven wonders of the world BRE ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith 601XL POH needed
Zenith provides a general one. Tony Graziano wrote a very detailed one for his plane and may be willing to provide a copy for your review and use. Dred ---- Dave Nixon wrote: > I am in the process of finishing up up a CH601XL. Does anyone have access > to or tell me how to get a POH that I can copy/change? > > I need it for my airworthiness application. > > Dave Nixon, Florida CH601XL, N107R > >


August 23, 2007 - September 06, 2007

Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-hc