Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-he
September 23, 2007 - October 05, 2007
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
they dont speak spanish in Brazil, its portugese dude.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Southern Reflections <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Sep 23, 2007 10:06 AM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>
>
>Thanks Craig, thats the one, only trouble is it's in spanish and all spanish
>is greek to me.. I tried to click it to english ,but it would 't
>work.Thank's again. I've put it on my favorites.I've Got to have a set of
>those wing tips there suppose to slow landing even more ,plus lights in the
>tips and they look hot. Joe N101HD 601 XL P.S> wing roots look
>better too.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
>To:
>Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 11:56 PM
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>
>
>>
>>> The one that I'am talking abouthad a custom canopy,up turned wing
>>> tips,and
>> a small window behind the seat.
>>
>> I think you are referring to Roberto Brito's plane in Brazil:
>> http://www.airfox.com.br
>>
>> -- Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NYTerminat(at)aol.com |
Larry, There were some recent discussions on the Yahoo 701 list of how the
VW is not good for the 701. Not sure if you monitor that list or not. If
anybody could make it work, I know you can.
Take care
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 9/23/2007 10:46:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
lrm(at)skyhawg.com writes:
I decided to go VW on my new 701. I ordered and got the Great Plains Type 1
engine assembly manual. In it I saw something I never heard of before. It
said that if you wanted to paint your engine cylinders to mix enamel and
gasoline 50/50. Has anyone out there done that, and if so, what were the results
and did it hold up?
Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
that guy is in Brazil, wrong country.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Southern Reflections <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Sep 22, 2007 11:28 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>
>
>The one that I'am talking abouthad a custom canopy,up turned wing tips,and a
>small window behind the seat. Thanks Joe N101HD
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
>To:
>Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:44 PM
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>
>
>>
>> if you are refering to the panel that was put on the zenith website, that
>> is me.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Southern Reflections <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
>>>Sent: Sep 22, 2007 7:56 PM
>>>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi Juan, a little off the subject,are you the person built ? that super
>>>custom 601 XL ? Thank's Joe N101HD
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
>>>To:
>>>Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 12:06 PM
>>>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> no steamers on mine, just the dynons, with Back up batteries.
>>>>
>>>> Juan
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: george may <gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
>>>>>Sent: Sep 21, 2007 6:34 PM
>>>>>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>>>>>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Bill--
>>>>> I'm flying the 601xl with the D100 as my main flight instruments and
>>>>> the
>>>>> D180 mounted on the passenger side for my engine instrumentation and
>>>>> EFIS
>>>>> backup. No problem seeing any of the instrument reading of the D180
>>>>> from
>>>>> the pilot seat, either with or without split screen.
>>>>>
>>>>>George May
>>>>>601XL 912s 150hrs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:
>>>>>ElectronicsDate: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:21:21 -0400From:
>>>>>japhillipsga(at)aol.comGeoff, I am interested in the D180 for the RV-8a I'm
>>>>>building. My concerns are is it really big enough to see. I measured and
>>>>>the eyeball to panel distance is almost four feet. I don't want to be
>>>>>squinting trying to see some little light bar so far away they all run
>>>>>together. Also, a friend of mine said the 180 won't keep up with a plane
>>>>>doing anything other than "airliner type" flying. That it is too slow
>>>>>and
>>>>>is always trying to catch up ? I just have not had the opportunity to
>>>>>talk
>>>>>to anyone actually using the unit and before I pay Mr. Dynon a bunch of
>>>>>money I hope to know it'll fit me. Do you have any backup steam gages
>>>>>and
>>>>>such as back up? Thanks and best regards, Billdo not
>>>>>archive-----Original
>>>>>Message-----From: Geoff Heap <stol10(at)comcast.net>To:
>>>>>zenith-list(at)matronics.comSent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 5:27 pmSubject:
>>>>>Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>>>>>
>>>>>Your own words Don
>>>>>"Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles,
>>>>>But
>>>>>the
>>>>>jabiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? "
>>>>>
>>>>>If you price ANY basic dynon unit (except D180) it's ALSO about $2000.
>>>>>Bells and
>>>>>whistles will crank up anyone's price. I bought the D180 combined
>>>>>EFIS/enigine
>>>>>monitoring system plus a full Rotax accessory package, battery backup,
>>>>>pitot
>>>>>tube, remote compass,mounting gizmo's, the works, for $4180. Not trying
>>>>>to
>>>>>sell
>>>>>Dynon here. Most of the competition looks good. I almost bought the
>>>>>Inigma.....Geoff
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Read this topic online here:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135539#135539
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>>More photos; more messages; more whatever Get MORE with Windows Live
>>>>>Hotmail. NOW with 5GB storage.
>>>>>ration_HM_mini_5G_0907
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
| From: | "AB_Summit" <rengler(at)TELUS.NET> |
ProWash wrote:
>
>
> I am currently planning to use a Rotax 583 snowmobile engine on the 701.
>
How do you attach the gearbox to the 583? Being a snowmobile engine it isn't machined
and drilled and tapped to accept a gearbox. Interesting idea though, I
like hearing ideas from others on a tight budget.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136033#136033
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> |
I know that Dude.. portugese,german,french,Itallian, spanish it's all
greek to me. mabye it's all portugese to me now ! who cares
----- Original Message ----- Joe
From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>
> they dont speak spanish in Brazil, its portugese dude.
>
> Juan
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Southern Reflections <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
>>Sent: Sep 23, 2007 10:06 AM
>>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>>
>>
>>
>>Thanks Craig, thats the one, only trouble is it's in spanish and all
>>spanish
>>is greek to me.. I tried to click it to english ,but it would 't
>>work.Thank's again. I've put it on my favorites.I've Got to have a set of
>>those wing tips there suppose to slow landing even more ,plus lights in
>>the
>>tips and they look hot. Joe N101HD 601 XL P.S> wing roots look
>>better too.
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
>>To:
>>Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 11:56 PM
>>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The one that I'am talking abouthad a custom canopy,up turned wing
>>>> tips,and
>>> a small window behind the seat.
>>>
>>> I think you are referring to Roberto Brito's plane in Brazil:
>>> http://www.airfox.com.br
>>>
>>> -- Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n282rs(at)satx.rr.com |
I did that on both the VW and Corvair. It seemed to work ok. Its more like a varnish
than paint. Just avoid the urge to smoke.
Randy Stout
San Antonio TX
www.geocities.com/n282rs
n282rs at satx.rr.com
-----Original Message-----
From: LRM <lrm(at)skyhawg.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:44:42
To:zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: New to me.
I decided to go VW on my new 701. I ordered and got the Great = Plains Type 1
engine assembly manual. In it I saw something I never heard = of before. It said
that if you wanted to paint your engine cylinders to mix = enamel and gasoline
50/50. Has anyone out there done that, and if so, = what were the results
and did it hold up?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing tips and Gull wing Doors |
There is a guy at my airport that had a co. that use to manfu. parts
like that. A friend of mine was telling me about him the other night at
the EAA meeting,I'am going to look him up. I'll let you know what the
out come is.
----- Original Mesagee Joe N101HD
From: Darrell Haas
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:30 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: wing tips and Gull wing Doors
I had a chance to check out pictures of Roberto Brito's plane with
the wing tips and the gull wing doors at www.airfox.com.br and I wrote
him too see if I could order both the wing tips and the gull wing doors.
He sounds like a great guy but is too busy to produce either of them at
his place. Does anyone know others who have made similar wing tips
and/or gull wing doors? Where can one buy them etc? plans?
Thanks,
Darrell Haas
Fairview, Oregon
601XL wana be builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 701 cowl tank addition? |
| From: | "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net> |
Thanks for the replies, I think you impressed me with the gas in my lap comment.
Maybe I'll hold off on that one. Its good to hear about the support from Zenith.
I have not heard a single bad thing about them, except from a competitor
[Wink]
It will be awhile yet as I have to clear out my honey do list a bit before I can
start. But I hope to get going this fall. I ordered the scratch building video
from Homebuilt Help, and I think I'm going to scratch build, it just seems
more fum, if a bit longer.
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136056#136056
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
| From: | "river1" <pedro(at)mycingular.blackberry.net> |
Randy ; I think that if you are going to consider a 2 cicle engine you might as
well make it light, the original empty weight with 582 was 460lb. I look at the
build (haven't started yet) with pretty much the same thoughts .Look at my
previous post , it looks like wen it comes to 2 cicle engines there's not too
many people interested, or in building it light . I talked with Seb Heintz and
said that I could buy the current version plans and he will supply a separate
sheet with the changes needed to achieve a lower weight.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136069#136069
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.D.(Ron) Leclerc" <infow(at)mts.net> |
G'Day Larry
Good choice for an engine... I assume that it will have the redrive. I would get
the all aluminum case that Steve has instead of the alum. mag. standard Type
1 case... its more robust and holds torque better. Although its about 10-12
heavier it is you don't have to worry about cracking the case behind #3 cylinder
like the standard case... when you increase the stroke to 82mm from stock.
Best bet next to a Type 4 case.
R.D.(Ron) Leclerc
CH701 Plans(Scrap) Builder #7-6699
Porsche Power Belted Redrive
Winnipeg, MB Canada
infow(at)mts.net
9/24/2007 8:49:41 AM
***************************************
This E-Mail scanned with AVG Anti-Virus Ver: 7.5!
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:-[ I decided to go VW on my new 701. I ordered and got the Great
:-[ Plains Type 1 engine assembly manual. In it I saw something I
:-[ never heard of before. It said that if you wanted to paint your
:-[ engine cylinders to mix enamel and gasoline 50/50. Has anyone out
:-[ there done that, and if so, what were the results and did it hold
:-[ up?
:-[
:-[ Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
:-[ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List _-
:-[ ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problems with top pre-drilled fuselage skin ( CH-701 |
)
| From: | "txpilot" <djg7(at)comcast.net> |
John,
I had similar problems when I built my rear fuselage. Here's what I suggest as
a solution:
Talk to Roger at ZAC and order new 'L' brackets with one flange at 20mm (normal)
and the other flange at 30mm. Use these extended flange 'L' brackets on the
side skins. Remove your current side 'L' brackets, clamp the small flange to
the top and bottom 'L' bracket flanges, and drill through your existing side
skin holes into the new "long" flange. Yes, it will be slightly off vertical
if your bottom and top 'L' brackets are not plumb, but it seems from your picture
that it won't be too far off. It will guarantee the 'L' bracket flanges will
be flush with each other with no gap.
BTW - on your website, you mentioned placing diagonal 'L' brackets on your skin
to reduce oil canning noise. I did the same on mine. I'm not flying yet, so
I don't know if it really helps. However, you'll notice ZAC has these 'L' brackets
on their aircraft model. Guess it can't be a bad idea.
Best Regards,
Dan Ginty
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136095#136095
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL vs. HDS |
Hi Shane,
I scratch built a HDS and have flown it 105 hours. There are
differences in speed, handling and carrying capacity. The XL with a
Corvair should be faster by 5 - 10 mph than a HDS. The storage capacity
of the HDS wing is very generous and the tapered 23-foot span cuts rough
air better than a wide one like the XL. The strength of the HDS wing is
significantly tougher, has a thicker section, conversely more drag.
Once, I felt I'd want to have an XL because of the advantage of a
thinner wing, but since, find the storage, fuel capacity and handling of
the HDS more to my liking.
I especially do not like the heavy main gear as designed for the XL.
The HDS gear is much lighter, more than a bit frustrating to build, but
a better gear in my opinion.
(opinion value$.02) I've only been in the demonstrator XL once and the
found a lower sink rate on landing. Flaps are an advantage for the wide
wings, not for the HDS.
Another important question, would Zenith continue support for the HDS
down the road if you're a kit builder and later ding a wing. No problem
if you are a scratch builder.
I think you'll find as many people taken by the XL and reluctant to fly
a 23-foot taper wing as well. It's the latest most imitated LSA
aircraft out there.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Shane Norwood wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm in a bit of a dilemma, so maybe you guys with some experience can
> offer your input. I'm just getting started with my Zodiac project
> (rudder workshop in November.) Due to limited hanger space, I'm really
> interested in going with the HDS to save 4 feet of wingspan. I'm
> planning on using the Corvair conversion, and I'm not concerned about
> LSA rules, because I will be not operating my plane under LSA.
>
> So I guess what I'm trying to find out is if there are any HDS
> builders who have flown both the HDS and the XL who can offer a
> practical pro/con assessment of each model. And is there anyone who
> built an HDS who wished they had built a XL, or vice-versa?
>
> Thanks,
> Shane
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
and you are building an airplane, scary dude.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Southern Reflections <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Sep 23, 2007 11:20 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>
>
>I know that Dude.. portugese,german,french,Itallian, spanish it's all
>greek to me. mabye it's all portugese to me now ! who cares
>----- Original Message ----- Joe
>From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
>To:
>Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:57 PM
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>
>
>>
>> they dont speak spanish in Brazil, its portugese dude.
>>
>> Juan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Southern Reflections <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
>>>Sent: Sep 23, 2007 10:06 AM
>>>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks Craig, thats the one, only trouble is it's in spanish and all
>>>spanish
>>>is greek to me.. I tried to click it to english ,but it would 't
>>>work.Thank's again. I've put it on my favorites.I've Got to have a set of
>>>those wing tips there suppose to slow landing even more ,plus lights in
>>>the
>>>tips and they look hot. Joe N101HD 601 XL P.S> wing roots look
>>>better too.
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
>>>To:
>>>Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 11:56 PM
>>>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The one that I'am talking abouthad a custom canopy,up turned wing
>>>>> tips,and
>>>> a small window behind the seat.
>>>>
>>>> I think you are referring to Roberto Brito's plane in Brazil:
>>>> http://www.airfox.com.br
>>>>
>>>> -- Craig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Marzulli" <john.marzulli(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with top pre-drilled fuselage skin ( CH-701 |
)
Thanks for the advice!
On 9/24/07, txpilot wrote:
>
>
> John,
>
> I had similar problems when I built my rear fuselage. Here's what I
> suggest as a solution:
>
> Talk to Roger at ZAC and order new 'L' brackets with one flange at 20mm
> (normal) and the other flange at 30mm. Use these extended flange 'L'
> brackets on the side skins. Remove your current side 'L' brackets, clamp
> the small flange to the top and bottom 'L' bracket flanges, and drill
> through your existing side skin holes into the new "long" flange. Yes, it
> will be slightly off vertical if your bottom and top 'L' brackets are not
> plumb, but it seems from your picture that it won't be too far off. It will
> guarantee the 'L' bracket flanges will be flush with each other with no gap.
>
> BTW - on your website, you mentioned placing diagonal 'L' brackets on your
> skin to reduce oil canning noise. I did the same on mine. I'm not flying
> yet, so I don't know if it really helps. However, you'll notice ZAC has
> these 'L' brackets on their aircraft model. Guess it can't be a bad idea.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Dan Ginty
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136095#136095
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
-Airplane The Movie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
Larry, this is going to be your 3rd engine installation, I am sorry to
hear that the Hog didn=92t work out for you. If it has any weight, I
have
flown behind VW 701=92s and I would recommend a Gro conversion with a
Raven redrive. I have found this to be a far better performer. However
this is only my opinion and you do enjoy a challenge.
Check out Rick Roberts website for installation in a 701 and look into
HYPERLINK "http://www.nessaaircraft.net/"www.nessaaircraft.net for great
proven information on upping the performance of the geo to make your 701
a true performer.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK
"http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:45 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: New to me.
I decided to go VW on my new 701. I ordered and got the Great Plains
Type 1 engine assembly manual. In it I saw something I never heard of
before. It said that if you wanted to paint your engine cylinders to mix
enamel and gasoline 50/50. Has anyone out there done that, and if so,
what were the results and did it hold up?
Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Zenith-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
9/24/2007 11:27 AM
9/24/2007 11:27 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Messages in foreign languges |
Members,
Over time I have seen messages posted on this forum that were in a
language other than English. I have also seen some messages where
members were expressing some measure of dismay for not being able to
understand a post concerning something they might be interested in. I
have never used this web site for translating a foreign language into
english so I have no idea if it works or how well it works. Anyway for
what it's worth, here it is.
http://www.freetranslations.com
Tracy Stone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Messages in foreign languges |
The Google one works as good as any of them. And it will translate a web
site:
http://www.google.com/language_tools
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Forney" <dforney(at)bctonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 XL project for sale |
Abandoning 601XL project.
I have drawings, CD, and slightly started dual-stick fuselage kit for sale.
Nearly $6000 in, willing to sell for $4000 OBO.
Please respond directly if interested and want more detail.
Dan
dforney(at)bctonline.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Marzulli" <john.marzulli(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with top pre-drilled fuselage skin ( CH-701 |
)
First, I want to thank everyone who provided a response, on and off list.
I talked to Roger at Zenith today and we came up with two possible
solutions.
The first is to see if the angles can be bent to match. Since there are so
many rivets in the baggage back, structural integrity should not be an
issue.
If I can't get that to work, then Roger offered to send out a new skin with
the offending rivet line not drilled.
Due to the fact that I have the fuselage squared up with the longerons
matching I want to avoid using a new skin even if the holes theoretically
match simply because they may not.
Once again thanks for all the help!
-John in Seattle
On 9/23/07, John Marzulli wrote:
>
> I'm having a bit of a problem. The ("L") angle that attaches to the top of
> the baggage back is off by exactly 10mm. This seems strange since every
> other junction is dead on, and the longeron splices are exactly even between
> the sides and the top. The flanges for the bulkheads were dead on.
>
> So this leads me to believe it is a CNC error, but it's a little hard to
> get up there to measure and prove it.
>
> Anyway, this has produced a gap too big to shim and I'm not sure what to
> do about it. One thought I had was to move the angle forward, but then the
> existing holes would be directly over the baggage back and the vertical
> ("L") angles.
>
> My other idea was to ignore the gap basically since when I test fit the
> baggage back only the area near the gap didn't site flush. So I would add
> some extra rivets towards the inside of the panel to make up for it, and
> maybe add two gussets. My guess is that two rivets on each side would have
> to be skipped.
>
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> I put pictures up on my blog: http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> John Marzulli
> http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
>
> "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
> harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
> -Airplane The Movie
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
-Airplane The Movie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Quick-build kit lead times? |
| From: | "hansriet" <hansinla(at)mac.com> |
I was just contacted by Zenith that my wings kit is on it's way.
I can finally get back to building and I better start saving for the fuselage right
away.
Happy Riveting,
Hans
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136150#136150
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Wing and horiz stab intersection fairings? |
Gang:
I am planning on putting fiberglass intersection fairings where the wing
and horizontal stabilizer attach to the airframe of my 601XL/TD. (Not
planning light sport!) I was hoping that someone has already done molds
for such, or even that one or the other or both might be available
commercially. (Yes, I know I can make them up moldless, but if
someone's already done the work...)
Anyone have such molds, or a contact for same?
Thanks,
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine Comparison |
| From: | <Craig.Spainhower(at)exeloncorp.com> |
I chose the 601XL so I could use the 0-235. I know the prototype 601xl is still
flying with the lyc engine and Chris Heintz seems pretty happy with it. That
is also the engine used in the CH2000. There is a weight penalty, total weight
with the lyc 0-235 is typically over 850' empty. I'm trying to improve on that
figure by using lightweight everything, electronic panel, fixed flaps, etc..
At least you won't have to worry about being tail heavy ; - )
Craig S.
N601XS, 601xl lyc 0-235
I would like to see some comments on using an O235 Lycoming.
I recently bought an engine, and am wondering why no one seems to be talking
about these engines.
They seem to be reasonable to buy, have a good TBO, and plenty of power.
The only thing that is negative is the weight.
Bill
601XL
0235
-----------------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing and horiz stab intersection fairings? |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> |
If you hear of any let the list know. I do have a question for you though. Why
do you think it matters to light sport status of your aircraft? I only ask because
there has been a significant amount of incorrect LSA info floating around
here the last few weeks.
a.s.elliott(at)cox.net wrote:
> Gang:
>
> I am planning on putting fiberglass intersection fairings where the wing and
horizontal stabilizer attach to the airframe of my 601XL/TD. (Not planning
light sport!) I was hoping that someone has already done molds for such, or
even that one or the other or both might be available commercially. (Yes, I
know I can make them up moldless, but if someone's already done the work...)
>
> Anyone have such molds, or a contact for same?
>
> Thanks,
> Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
> N601GE (reserved)
> 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136179#136179
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Maxson <pmaxpmax(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | Battery cable size |
I think #4 Tefzel wire is a better choice than welding cable. Tefzel insul
ation has been proven in aircraft over and over, and with welding cable, yo
ur gambling on the insulation. Many builders use it, but why take the chan
ce?Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
> Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:37:45 -0500> From: zsmith3rd(at)earthlink.net> To:
zenith-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Battery cable size> >
Mike,> > I used #4 welding cable from the local welding supply. Tough insul
ation, flexible, etc.> They also stock nice copper end terminals> > Regards
,> Zed/701/912/etc/90+%/blue scotchbrite pads
_________________________________________________________________
Can you find the hidden words?- Take a break and play Seekadoo!
http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_wlmailtextlink
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery cable size |
Hi Phil,
You'd find #4 Tefzel is fairly rigid in bending and the same for fitting
connectors. Welding cable is flexible and durable to a fault and the
wire is fine enough that connectors can
be soldered with excellent results. There is no risk taken in using
Welding Cable for battery to starter contactor and battery connections
and it's much easier to lay up tight in corners and bends than Tefzel.
Welding cable insulation is extremely durable as it get stepped on,
driven over and will take an enormous amount of abuse. That said, I'd
not use anything but Tefzel for all light gage wiring jobs.
I'm sure that welding cable costs less and can be had at Farm and Fleet
Stores.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Phil Maxson wrote:
> I think #4 Tefzel wire is a better choice than welding cable. Tefzel
> insulation has been proven in aircraft over and over, and with welding
> cable, your gambling on the insulation. Many builders use it, but why
> take the chance?
>
> Phil Maxson
> 601XL/Corvair
> Northwest New Jersey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> |
What's scarey is , some one in a airplane that doesn't have enough smarts to
keep putting half smart ass remarks on this site JuanVega ..says it all any
way.. see ya Wan Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>
> and you are building an airplane, scary dude.
>
> Juan
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Southern Reflections <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
>>Sent: Sep 23, 2007 11:20 PM
>>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>>
>>
>>
>>I know that Dude.. portugese,german,french,Itallian, spanish it's all
>>greek to me. mabye it's all portugese to me now ! who cares
>>----- Original Message ----- Joe
>>From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
>>To:
>>Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:57 PM
>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>>
>>
>>>
>>> they dont speak spanish in Brazil, its portugese dude.
>>>
>>> Juan
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Southern Reflections <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
>>>>Sent: Sep 23, 2007 10:06 AM
>>>>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>>>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thanks Craig, thats the one, only trouble is it's in spanish and all
>>>>spanish
>>>>is greek to me.. I tried to click it to english ,but it would 't
>>>>work.Thank's again. I've put it on my favorites.I've Got to have a set
>>>>of
>>>>those wing tips there suppose to slow landing even more ,plus lights in
>>>>the
>>>>tips and they look hot. Joe N101HD 601 XL P.S> wing roots look
>>>>better too.
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
>>>>To:
>>>>Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 11:56 PM
>>>>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The one that I'am talking abouthad a custom canopy,up turned wing
>>>>>> tips,and
>>>>> a small window behind the seat.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you are referring to Roberto Brito's plane in Brazil:
>>>>> http://www.airfox.com.br
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Craig
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob St Denis" <rob(at)iahu.ca> |
See y'all there
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing and horiz stab intersection fairings? |
there is a guy in czech area that put nice fairings on an XL. I asked roger and
Sebastian, but nobody could ident the pilot. Check in the tail dragger section,
the red XL nice fairings by mistery pilot.
Who could it be..........
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
>Sent: Sep 24, 2007 4:00 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wing and horiz stab intersection fairings?
>
>
>If you hear of any let the list know. I do have a question for you though. Why
do you think it matters to light sport status of your aircraft? I only ask because
there has been a significant amount of incorrect LSA info floating around
here the last few weeks.
>
>
>a.s.elliott(at)cox.net wrote:
>> Gang:
>>
>> I am planning on putting fiberglass intersection fairings where the wing and
horizontal stabilizer attach to the airframe of my 601XL/TD. (Not planning
light sport!) I was hoping that someone has already done molds for such, or
even that one or the other or both might be available commercially. (Yes,
I know I can make them up moldless, but if someone's already done the work...)
>>
>> Anyone have such molds, or a contact for same?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
>> N601GE (reserved)
>> 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
>>
>
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136179#136179
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Forney" <dforney(at)bctonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL project for sale |
Sorry, I should have added that this is a Zenith factory standard fuselage
kit with dual stick option. The project is located in the Portland, OR.
area.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n801bh(at)netzero.com" <n801bh(at)netzero.com> |
How about that link again ??
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Rob St Denis" wrote:
See y'all there
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Quick-build kit lead times? |
| From: | "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> |
hansriet wrote:
> I was just contacted by Zenith that my wings kit is on it's way.
That was fast!
Maybe I ought to put in a plug for some engine parts I've been waiting on...
:D
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136203#136203
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net> |
All-
Is there any company out there that can provide a customized
schematic for your project? Not actually build the panel, but do all the
calculations? The client would provide exactly what major components are
involved.
For example, the client wants a Dynon XXX 3.0, King XX 1.5 Com,
Narco X 1.0 transponder along with position and landing/taxi lights in a
dual battery redundant system. The company would draw up the schematic
and make recommendations for the bus, switch, and auxilliary hardware.
If one doesn't exist, it'd be a great idea for a small business that
required zero start-up capital!
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob St Denis" <rob(at)iahu.ca> |
http://chat.iahu.ca
On 9/24/07, n801bh(at)netzero.com wrote:
>
> How about that link again ??
>
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
> -- "Rob St Denis" wrote:
> See y'all there
>
> *
>
> ===================================
> ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> ===================================
> tronics.com
> ===================================
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Woody sulloway" <sulloway(at)clis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagrams |
Bill there is a guy who is active in the Experimental Avionics group.
here is the link http://www.ptpengineering.com/. give it a try.
Regards
Woody
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:43 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Wiring diagrams
All-
Is there any company out there that can provide a customized
schematic for your project? Not actually build the panel, but do all the
calculations? The client would provide exactly what major components are
involved.
For example, the client wants a Dynon XXX 3.0, King XX 1.5 Com,
Narco X 1.0 transponder along with position and landing/taxi lights in a
dual battery redundant system. The company would draw up the schematic
and make recommendations for the bus, switch, and auxilliary hardware.
If one doesn't exist, it'd be a great idea for a small business
that required zero start-up capital!
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagrams |
Woody-
No joy on the link.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Woody sulloway
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wiring diagrams
Bill there is a guy who is active in the Experimental Avionics group.
here is the link http://www.ptpengineering.com/. give it a try.
Regards
Woody
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:43 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Wiring diagrams
All-
Is there any company out there that can provide a customized
schematic for your project? Not actually build the panel, but do all the
calculations? The client would provide exactly what major components are
involved.
For example, the client wants a Dynon XXX 3.0, King XX 1.5 Com,
Narco X 1.0 transponder along with position and landing/taxi lights in a
dual battery redundant system. The company would draw up the schematic
and make recommendations for the bus, switch, and auxilliary hardware.
If one doesn't exist, it'd be a great idea for a small business
that required zero start-up capital!
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagrams |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> |
If you don't yet have the book this guy sells get it.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/
If he doesn't have an exact match in it I'll bet he has one that is pretty close.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136221#136221
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LRM" <lrm(at)skyhawg.com> |
Nope, this is for my new 701, totally different plane. Lengthened the
wings and going with VGs on this one. The Hawg is still up and running,
just waiting on a prop adjustment from Culver. I couldn't get the
static rpm I needed. Hopefully real soon. The Hawg is working out,
just takes a lot of patience. Building and designing is where the fun
is anyway, Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: ZodieRocket
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 10:48 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: New to me.
Larry, this is going to be your 3rd engine installation, I am sorry to
hear that the Hog didn=92t work out for you. If it has any weight, I
have flown behind VW 701=92s and I would recommend a Gro conversion with
a Raven redrive. I have found this to be a far better performer. However
this is only my opinion and you do enjoy a challenge.
Check out Rick Roberts website for installation in a 701 and look into
www.nessaaircraft.net for great proven information on upping the
performance of the geo to make your 701 a true performer.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:45 PM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: New to me.
I decided to go VW on my new 701. I ordered and got the Great Plains
Type 1 engine assembly manual. In it I saw something I never heard of
before. It said that if you wanted to paint your engine cylinders to mix
enamel and gasoline 50/50. Has anyone out there done that, and if so,
what were the results and did it hold up?
Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
- The Zenith-List Email Forum - -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - NEW
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com
9/24/2007 11:27 AM
9/24/2007 11:27 AM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
9/24/2007 11:27 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagrams |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
Ditto to what Gig said. The AeroElectric Connection is the guide I use. He has
what you are looking for in the back of the book.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136231#136231
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Woody sulloway" <sulloway(at)clis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagrams |
Bill,
I thought I had seen him in the group within the last week or too.
Sorry!
You might try a message to ExperimentalAvionics(at)yahoogroups.com
you will have to go to the group
at Yahoo.com and join up first. Good group, gotten some good tips there.
Regards
Woody
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wiring diagrams
Woody-
No joy on the link.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Woody sulloway
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wiring diagrams
Bill there is a guy who is active in the Experimental Avionics
group. here is the link http://www.ptpengineering.com/. give it a try.
Regards
Woody
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:43 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Wiring diagrams
All-
Is there any company out there that can provide a customized
schematic for your project? Not actually build the panel, but do all the
calculations? The client would provide exactly what major components are
involved.
For example, the client wants a Dynon XXX 3.0, King XX 1.5
Com, Narco X 1.0 transponder along with position and landing/taxi lights
in a dual battery redundant system. The company would draw up the
schematic and make recommendations for the bus, switch, and auxilliary
hardware.
If one doesn't exist, it'd be a great idea for a small
business that required zero start-up capital!
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> |
LARRY, WHAT KIND OF PROBLEMS DID YOU HAVE WITH THE HOG - AIR ENG? How
many hr. did you have on it?
----- Original Message ----- Joe N101HD 601XL
From: LRM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me.
Nope, this is for my new 701, totally different plane. Lengthened the
wings and going with VGs on this one. The Hawg is still up and running,
just waiting on a prop adjustment from Culver. I couldn't get the
static rpm I needed. Hopefully real soon. The Hawg is working out,
just takes a lot of patience. Building and designing is where the fun
is anyway, Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: ZodieRocket
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 10:48 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: New to me.
Larry, this is going to be your 3rd engine installation, I am sorry
to hear that the Hog didn=92t work out for you. If it has any weight, I
have flown behind VW 701=92s and I would recommend a Gro conversion with
a Raven redrive. I have found this to be a far better performer. However
this is only my opinion and you do enjoy a challenge.
Check out Rick Roberts website for installation in a 701 and look
into www.nessaaircraft.net for great proven information on upping the
performance of the geo to make your 701 a true performer.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:45 PM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: New to me.
I decided to go VW on my new 701. I ordered and got the Great
Plains Type 1 engine assembly manual. In it I saw something I never
heard of before. It said that if you wanted to paint your engine
cylinders to mix enamel and gasoline 50/50. Has anyone out there done
that, and if so, what were the results and did it hold up?
Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
- The Zenith-List Email Forum - -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - NEW
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com
9/24/2007 11:27 AM
9/24/2007 11:27 AM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Release Date: 9/24/2007 11:27 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagrams |
I have it.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 7:58 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wiring diagrams
>
>
> If you don't yet have the book this guy sells get it.
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/
>
> If he doesn't have an exact match in it I'll bet he has one that is pretty
> close.
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136221#136221
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing and horiz stab intersection fairings? |
Andy
I am very much interested in installing wing root fairings on my XL, but
I'd rather buy them than make them. You are probably aware of the
installation that Klaus Truemper did on his HDS. Klaus generously spent a
morning with me last May looking and taking photos of his beautiful plane. See:
http://www.utdallas.edu/~klaus/Airplane/airplane.html
if you haven't already looked at his website. The performance improvements
for Klaus plane were very significant. If the results on an XL are anything
close, they would really be worth installing. I've posted my photos of
Klaus' plane on Picasa. There are several detail shots of his fairings. See:
http://picasaweb.google.com/ttp444/Klaus601HDS
There is a gentleman, Bob Snedaker, in Goodyear, AZ, who makes wing root
fairings for RVs. I talked with him on the phone after I visited with
Klaus. He sounded interested in expanding his product line to include the
XL, but he needed an aircraft so that he could make the molds. I attempted
to find a 601 builder in his neighborhood who would be willing to let their
plane be used to make the molds, but I was unsuccessful. Perhaps if you
would call him, he might make you a deal if you volunteer to be his Guinea
pig. His web site is:
http://www.fairings-etc.com/wing%20root%20fairings.htm
He has a phone number on his site. His price for a pair of RV fairings is a
pretty reasonable $430. I hope you'll contact him and let the group know if
he will be selling fairings for XLs. I'd definitely be willing to buy a pair.
Also, Eddie Seve, an XL builder in Australia is building wing root
fairings. His Kitlog Pro site is:
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=eddieseve&project=89&category=0&log=24760&row=40
Good luck!
Terry
>Gang:
>
>I am planning on putting fiberglass intersection fairings where the wing
>and horizontal stabilizer attach to the airframe of my 601XL/TD. (Not
>planning light sport!) I was hoping that someone has already done molds
>for such, or even that one or the other or both might be available
>commercially. (Yes, I know I can make them up moldless, but if someone's
>already done the work...)
>
>Anyone have such molds, or a contact for same?
>
>Thanks,
>Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
>N601GE (reserved)
>601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | stol ch701 wing profile |
| From: | "ashralf" <ashralf_0422(at)yahoo.com> |
i would like to ask for stol ch701 wing profile
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136272#136272
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | stol ch701 wing profile |
| From: | "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" <Keith.Ashcraft(at)itt.com> |
The airfoil is a NACA 6515 mod.
http://www.ae.uiuc.edu/m-selig/ads/aircraft.html
Search for Heintz. I am figuring that most of these are correct.
Keith
*************************************************************************
*********************
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of ashralf
Sent: Mon 9/24/2007 10:16 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: stol ch701 wing profile
i would like to ask for stol ch701 wing profile
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136272#136272
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Balistic Recovery Parachute |
| From: | martyn(at)flight.co.za |
Hello,
Has anybody here installed a Balistic recovery Parachute system to thier
701. If so what make and where did you attach the device.
Sincerely
Martyn Ward
CH701 - ZU-DPL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
| Subject: | Balistic Recovery Parachute |
BRS Installation Blueprints, this is the installation manual for the BRS
system in the 701. However, I would like to go on record that I have a
grave issue ( yes I chose my words correctly) with installing a BRS into
the 701. However, it is my personal opinion. Please research it closer
and make your own mind up. Check out the conditions in which you can
actually deploy it, think about a ROCKET mounted behind your head. I
personally believe they are a bigger danger to a pilot then flying the
plane (especially a 701 at 30mph) to a landing spot of about 100 feet to
save the plane, 10 feet to save yourself and most of your plane. Please
call me crazy if you wish, that's fine by me as I said this is just my
opinion but research the installation and usefulness of the BRS system.
Don't just take the hype at face value, research the planes design and
check the FAA record for Fatalities ( 701 has none with over 1000
flying)
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/data/701-brs-chute.pdf
I'm not against the BRS product, don't misunderstand that point, I
believe there are many planes that would benefit from the installation (
most Cessna's for example, in fact any plane that requires over 1000ft
of runway. But in a 701 I believe it is a bigger danger to have one
installed then not to.
The 701 is one of the safest planes I have ever flown, just in a time of
quiet reflection when that big fan may stop turning, (or you clip a tree
on final! You know who you are) then do what was drilled into your head
all those years ago FLY THE PLANE !!! Don't give up and pull a rocket,
in most instances you will be able to fix any hard landing in a 701, Ask
Jon Croke on that matter. If you pull a chute on a 701 you're buying a
new kit, the attachment points are not designed for the loads that will
be introduced.
For those of you who may not know Jon, please read his story at
http://www.ch701.com/stories/stories.htm
He is humble enough to share his experience so that others may not fall
into the same trap.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
martyn(at)flight.co.za
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:46 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Balistic Recovery Parachute
Hello,
Has anybody here installed a Balistic recovery Parachute system to thier
701. If so what make and where did you attach the device.
Sincerely
Martyn Ward
CH701 - ZU-DPL
9/25/2007 8:02 AM
9/25/2007 8:02 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Balistic Recovery Parachute |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> |
Since we are talking about chutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1PX7G0u0yI
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136321#136321
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LRM" <lrm(at)skyhawg.com> |
Not that many with the engine really. Most of them were my fault. In
as far as the engine goes, the only real issue with the engine is the
large power pulses. I had to go thru three props before I got one that
was acceptable. The Warp Drive had a blade that tracked out over 1/4",
I just could not get it to smooth out. I sold it on e-bay and lost my
@#$#. The IVO prop was worse, one of it's blades wouldn't even fit on
the prop hub without forcing it. They refunded my money. The Culver is
best, but too long and too much pitch. All I could get was 3k static.
It's now being re-done. I can't say enough good things about Larry
Smith at Culver. The engine runs great, I have 21 hours on it. After
all the engine is a Harley, and will never run as smooth as a car
engine, what it is, is what it is. I had the engine mounted too hard
to the firewall. I had eight mounts, so I felt every little shake
rattle and roll, it is now back to the normal six. I had two supertrapp
mufflers hung ridged off the engine, 4.5 lbs each, a foot back. They
magnified the vibrations. They sounded good but are history, I now have
straight pipes down.
The biggest other problem I had were with the plastic gas tanks and
lines from PegaStol. They used food service fittings and lines that
wouldn't hold up to gasoline. I ended up building my own glass tanks
and changed out all the lines to regular auto type fuel injections
lines. I had to take the wings apart twice, lots of time. And, lots of
little crap, like the EFIS didn't work, had to go back to the factory, I
broke a knob off the radio, etc. Then I had a spinner that I didn't
fasten properly and it came off at about 3000 rpm, and tore up the front
of my cowl. So I had to rebuild the cowling. For a while I think I was
snake bit. So I let it sit for a few months and did other things.
Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Southern Reflections
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me.
LARRY, WHAT KIND OF PROBLEMS DID YOU HAVE WITH THE HOG - AIR ENG? How
many hr. did you have on it?
----- Original Message ----- Joe N101HD 601XL
From: LRM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me.
Nope, this is for my new 701, totally different plane. Lengthened
the wings and going with VGs on this one. The Hawg is still up and
running, just waiting on a prop adjustment from Culver. I couldn't get
the static rpm I needed. Hopefully real soon. The Hawg is working out,
just takes a lot of patience. Building and designing is where the fun
is anyway, Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: ZodieRocket
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 10:48 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: New to me.
Larry, this is going to be your 3rd engine installation, I am
sorry to hear that the Hog didn=92t work out for you. If it has any
weight, I have flown behind VW 701=92s and I would recommend a Gro
conversion with a Raven redrive. I have found this to be a far better
performer. However this is only my opinion and you do enjoy a challenge.
Check out Rick Roberts website for installation in a 701 and look
into www.nessaaircraft.net for great proven information on upping the
performance of the geo to make your 701 a true performer.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:45 PM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: New to me.
I decided to go VW on my new 701. I ordered and got the Great
Plains Type 1 engine assembly manual. In it I saw something I never
heard of before. It said that if you wanted to paint your engine
cylinders to mix enamel and gasoline 50/50. Has anyone out there done
that, and if so, what were the results and did it hold up?
Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
- The Zenith-List Email Forum - -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - NEW
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com
9/24/2007 11:27 AM
9/24/2007 11:27 AM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Release Date: 9/24/2007 11:27 AM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
9/24/2007 11:27 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net> |
| Subject: | Re: stol ch701 wing profile |
The airfoil is the 65018 18% thick. I assume you are asking about
the airfoil in total,
slat and all. It isn't exactly a 65018 either as Chris made
construction a little easier for us by eliminating the slight
undercamber on the lower surface and he flattened the top a little in
the spar area so we could use angle extrusions for spar caps.
LOW&SLO
John Bolding
----- Original Message -----
From: ashralf
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 11:16 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: stol ch701 wing profile
i would like to ask for stol ch701 wing profile
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problems with top pre-drilled fuselage skin ( CH-701 |
)
| From: | "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> |
For stuff like this it's worth building the Zenith 48 inch bending brake.
txpilot wrote:
> John,
>
> I had similar problems when I built my rear fuselage. Here's what I suggest
as a solution:
>
> Talk to Roger at ZAC and order new 'L' brackets with one flange at 20mm (normal)
and the other flange at 30mm. Use these extended flange 'L' brackets on the
side skins. Remove your current side 'L' brackets, clamp the small flange
to the top and bottom 'L' bracket flanges, and drill through your existing side
skin holes into the new "long" flange. Yes, it will be slightly off vertical
if your bottom and top 'L' brackets are not plumb, but it seems from your picture
that it won't be too far off. It will guarantee the 'L' bracket flanges
will be flush with each other with no gap.
>
> BTW - on your website, you mentioned placing diagonal 'L' brackets on your skin
to reduce oil canning noise. I did the same on mine. I'm not flying yet,
so I don't know if it really helps. However, you'll notice ZAC has these 'L'
brackets on their aircraft model. Guess it can't be a bad idea.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Dan Ginty
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136328#136328
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Four Stroke Outboard Engines |
| From: | "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> |
I already have my Corvair engine, but was curious if any one looked into four stroke
outboard power heads as an engine option? A Honda 90hp total weight is 379lbs,
but I'd have to imagine only 1/3 of that is the actual engine block, and
they're rated for 5500 rpm continuous use.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136332#136332
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | vann covington <vanncovi(at)yahoo.com> |
I have a question about the electric trim tab in the elevator. I purchased a partially
built kit and the previous builder did not use the trim kit. Any suggestions
for a retrofit? Thanks, Vann, NC
---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
Vann,
The elevator is removable. If you'd built the elevator, you'd have to
have it completed to install the trim tab anyway, so I'd recommend you
consider adding
the externalized trim tab on your bench at home and follow the guidance
provided in the plans. The only complication is extending wiring for
this thru the plane, but that's
the worst of it. If you need more info, email me off site.
See link of installation,
http://www.macsmachine.com/html/trimtelevatortrimtabs.htm
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
vann covington wrote:
> I have a question about the electric trim tab in the elevator. I
> purchased a partially built kit and the previous builder did not use
> the trim kit. Any suggestions for a retrofit? Thanks, Vann, NC
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery cable size |
Dave,
I understand your concern, but a properly supported cable is not going
to get tired the first 100 years and fail all by itself unless you
put it under stress. Properly done cables are not placed under stress.
To have cable fatigue you have to hang a battery from it or
some flexing tensioned condition and in this case I'd agree with you.
Larry McFarland
David Downey wrote:
> I respectfully disagree. Soldered connections lead to cable fatigue in
> ALL cases - you may just not get there!
>
> Dave Downey
> Harleysville (SE) PA
> 100 HP Corvair
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> |
LARRY , we had the same problem with a 2 blade prop , out about 5/16
out, sent the prop back they re checked it and sent it back, put it back
on, same prob. Heat got to be a prob. also . Joe N101HD
601XL
----- Original Message -----
From: LRM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me.
Not that many with the engine really. Most of them were my fault. In
as far as the engine goes, the only real issue with the engine is the
large power pulses. I had to go thru three props before I got one that
was acceptable. The Warp Drive had a blade that tracked out over 1/4",
I just could not get it to smooth out. I sold it on e-bay and lost my
@#$#. The IVO prop was worse, one of it's blades wouldn't even fit on
the prop hub without forcing it. They refunded my money. The Culver is
best, but too long and too much pitch. All I could get was 3k static.
It's now being re-done. I can't say enough good things about Larry
Smith at Culver. The engine runs great, I have 21 hours on it. After
all the engine is a Harley, and will never run as smooth as a car
engine, what it is, is what it is. I had the engine mounted too hard
to the firewall. I had eight mounts, so I felt every little shake
rattle and roll, it is now back to the normal six. I had two supertrapp
mufflers hung ridged off the engine, 4.5 lbs each, a foot back. They
magnified the vibrations. They sounded good but are history, I now have
straight pipes down.
The biggest other problem I had were with the plastic gas tanks and
lines from PegaStol. They used food service fittings and lines that
wouldn't hold up to gasoline. I ended up building my own glass tanks
and changed out all the lines to regular auto type fuel injections
lines. I had to take the wings apart twice, lots of time. And, lots of
little crap, like the EFIS didn't work, had to go back to the factory, I
broke a knob off the radio, etc. Then I had a spinner that I didn't
fasten properly and it came off at about 3000 rpm, and tore up the front
of my cowl. So I had to rebuild the cowling. For a while I think I was
snake bit. So I let it sit for a few months and did other things.
Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Southern Reflections
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me.
LARRY, WHAT KIND OF PROBLEMS DID YOU HAVE WITH THE HOG - AIR ENG?
How many hr. did you have on it?
----- Original Message ----- Joe N101HD 601XL
From: LRM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me.
Nope, this is for my new 701, totally different plane. Lengthened
the wings and going with VGs on this one. The Hawg is still up and
running, just waiting on a prop adjustment from Culver. I couldn't get
the static rpm I needed. Hopefully real soon. The Hawg is working out,
just takes a lot of patience. Building and designing is where the fun
is anyway, Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: ZodieRocket
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 10:48 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: New to me.
Larry, this is going to be your 3rd engine installation, I am
sorry to hear that the Hog didn=92t work out for you. If it has any
weight, I have flown behind VW 701=92s and I would recommend a Gro
conversion with a Raven redrive. I have found this to be a far better
performer. However this is only my opinion and you do enjoy a challenge.
Check out Rick Roberts website for installation in a 701 and
look into www.nessaaircraft.net for great proven information on upping
the performance of the geo to make your 701 a true performer.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:45 PM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: New to me.
I decided to go VW on my new 701. I ordered and got the Great
Plains Type 1 engine assembly manual. In it I saw something I never
heard of before. It said that if you wanted to paint your engine
cylinders to mix enamel and gasoline 50/50. Has anyone out there done
that, and if so, what were the results and did it hold up?
Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
- The Zenith-List Email Forum - -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - NEW
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com
9/24/2007 11:27 AM
9/24/2007 11:27 AM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Release Date: 9/24/2007 11:27 AM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Release Date: 9/24/2007 11:27 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Ray" <davgray(at)sbcglobal.net> |
This is not a problem since the trim tab can easily be cut after
completing the elevator. Check out the Zenith Builders web site for
latest drawings to be sure you are making the full span version of the
tab.
----- Original Message -----
From: vann covington
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:29 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: trim tab
I have a question about the electric trim tab in the elevator. I
purchased a partially built kit and the previous builder did not use the
trim kit. Any suggestions for a retrofit? Thanks, Vann, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
9/24/07 7:09 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | next batch of photos |
Second batch
Dred
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net> |
This is the last batch. Write if you need more or other info.
Dred
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Loer" <RLOER(at)aceweb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Balistic Recovery Parachute |
That was a bad thing!
>------- Original Message -------
>From : Gig Giacona[mailto:wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net]
>Sent : 9/25/2007 6:58:57 AM
>To : zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Cc :
>Subject : RE: Zenith-List: Re: Balistic Recovery Parachute
>
Since we are talking about chutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1PX7G0u0yI
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136321#136321
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trainnut01(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Third and final |
Thank you very much.
I'm not quite there yet but I kept remembering the nightmare I had at this
point with my RV. I believe you have the answer.
Thanks again
Carroll
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Balistic Recovery Parachute |
| From: | "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> |
What about the 601XL...?
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136389#136389
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "SkipperClyde" <Bluebird(at)Townsqr.com> |
I recently purchased duplicate of two Homebuilt Help Videos:
Weight & Balance 101 for Homebuilts &
How To License your Homebuilt Aircraft
If any one is interested, I'll sell each for $25 including shipping. Please contact
me offline at Bluebird(at)Townsqr.com
thanks
phil
601XL O235 20%
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136391#136391
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 601XL Fuselage Component Crate Length? |
| From: | "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> |
Can anyone tell me exactly how long the crate is for the 601XL fuselage component
kit...? So I can arrange for a trailer. I couldn't find it in the archives.
I learned the hard way (with my wing kit) that there's a BIG difference between
"12 feet" and "12 feet 6 inches". Especially when you try to use a 12 foot trailer
with a tailgate... :)
Thanks,
Patrick
XLCorvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136392#136392
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage Component Crate Length? |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Patrick,
I remember it being 12' 6". Also, one end was a bit heavier than the other. Place
this end towards the front.
Have fun!
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done, engine next.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136404#136404
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Third and final |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Dred,
We are all better off having seen them. It gives me some good ideas.
Thanks!
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done, engine next.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136408#136408
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage Component Crate Length? |
| From: | "SkipperClyde" <Bluebird(at)Townsqr.com> |
Mine measures 1/2 inch under 16 feet
Skipperclyde
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136438#136438
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LRM" <lrm(at)skyhawg.com> |
A two blade prop tracking problem is easy to fix, just put a little
aluminum tape under the low side between the hub and prop until you get
you get it tracking right. It doesn't take much to make a whole bunch
of difference at the tip. I had to do that on the Culver. A three or
four blade is possible to correct that way but harder to get right.
Both of these guys, i.e., Warp Drive/ IVO said a 1'4" out of track was
acceptable. I don't agree, if it ain't tracking true, it can't be
smooth. It is not so difficult to get it right. Warp Drive told me
that sometimes they come out a little different from the molds. Well
most of you know I do a lot of glass work and I'm here to tell you that
if you use the same mold on two parts and leave them in long enough to
cure, they are exactly the same. If you pop them early, they can
distort. They just get in a hurry and won't admit the problem.
I got the heat problem corrected, had to do some creative baffling, but
is under control. Take care, Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Southern Reflections
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me.
LARRY , we had the same problem with a 2 blade prop , out about 5/16
out, sent the prop back they re checked it and sent it back, put it back
on, same prob. Heat got to be a prob. also . Joe N101HD
601XL
----- Original Message -----
From: LRM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me.
Not that many with the engine really. Most of them were my fault.
In as far as the engine goes, the only real issue with the engine is the
large power pulses. I had to go thru three props before I got one that
was acceptable. The Warp Drive had a blade that tracked out over 1/4",
I just could not get it to smooth out. I sold it on e-bay and lost my
@#$#. The IVO prop was worse, one of it's blades wouldn't even fit on
the prop hub without forcing it. They refunded my money. The Culver is
best, but too long and too much pitch. All I could get was 3k static.
It's now being re-done. I can't say enough good things about Larry
Smith at Culver. The engine runs great, I have 21 hours on it. After
all the engine is a Harley, and will never run as smooth as a car
engine, what it is, is what it is. I had the engine mounted too hard
to the firewall. I had eight mounts, so I felt every little shake
rattle and roll, it is now back to the normal six. I had two supertrapp
mufflers hung ridged off the engine, 4.5 lbs each, a foot back. They
magnified the vibrations. They sounded good but are history, I now have
straight pipes down.
The biggest other problem I had were with the plastic gas tanks and
lines from PegaStol. They used food service fittings and lines that
wouldn't hold up to gasoline. I ended up building my own glass tanks
and changed out all the lines to regular auto type fuel injections
lines. I had to take the wings apart twice, lots of time. And, lots of
little crap, like the EFIS didn't work, had to go back to the factory, I
broke a knob off the radio, etc. Then I had a spinner that I didn't
fasten properly and it came off at about 3000 rpm, and tore up the front
of my cowl. So I had to rebuild the cowling. For a while I think I was
snake bit. So I let it sit for a few months and did other things.
Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Southern Reflections
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me.
LARRY, WHAT KIND OF PROBLEMS DID YOU HAVE WITH THE HOG - AIR ENG?
How many hr. did you have on it?
----- Original Message ----- Joe N101HD 601XL
From: LRM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me.
Nope, this is for my new 701, totally different plane.
Lengthened the wings and going with VGs on this one. The Hawg is still
up and running, just waiting on a prop adjustment from Culver. I
couldn't get the static rpm I needed. Hopefully real soon. The Hawg is
working out, just takes a lot of patience. Building and designing is
where the fun is anyway, Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: ZodieRocket
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 10:48 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: New to me.
Larry, this is going to be your 3rd engine installation, I am
sorry to hear that the Hog didn=92t work out for you. If it has any
weight, I have flown behind VW 701=92s and I would recommend a Gro
conversion with a Raven redrive. I have found this to be a far better
performer. However this is only my opinion and you do enjoy a challenge.
Check out Rick Roberts website for installation in a 701 and
look into www.nessaaircraft.net for great proven information on upping
the performance of the geo to make your 701 a true performer.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:45 PM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: New to me.
I decided to go VW on my new 701. I ordered and got the Great
Plains Type 1 engine assembly manual. In it I saw something I never
heard of before. It said that if you wanted to paint your engine
cylinders to mix enamel and gasoline 50/50. Has anyone out there done
that, and if so, what were the results and did it hold up?
Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
- The Zenith-List Email Forum - -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - NEW
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com
9/24/2007 11:27 AM
9/24/2007 11:27 AM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Release Date: 9/24/2007 11:27 AM
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-----
9/25/2007 8:02 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick" <rwripper(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | avex rivet question |
After installation, what is the acceptable criteria of the finished
avex rivet? Is there any as with solid driven rivets on the shop head
diameter and height?
Thanks, Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
Here is how I did mine following the plans 6-T-6 dated 8/05 Recessed Elevator Trim
Tab. After fabricating the elevator is was hard to cut it apart. Take a
look here:
http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=0&log=14761&row=366
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136451#136451
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> |
Larry - You make it all sound so easy.
Breaking new ground like this is amazing, and sharing the experience with the rest
of us is appreciated.
I swear if I ever win the lottery I'm going to retire and just follow guys like
you around so I can learn stuff. If I ever buy lottery tickets. :)
>From my vantage point as a first-time homebuilder, it would be like learning from
Bernie Pietenpol or WW or Steve Wittman.
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136454#136454
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> |
I n the Zenith owner"s manual the "limitation" post the VNE @ 150. mph,
on there web site the vne is 180 ! what's wrong with this picture ?
This is for a 601 XL I also haven't seen a stated HP max. I know
there are 601's out there with 140 HP, mine is 130 hp . For what? if
the Vne is 150. I am prone to belive 180 mph but , don't want to pull
the wing's off. Joe N101HD 601 XL/ Subaru
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Balistic Recovery Parachute |
Mike Sinclair installed a BRS on his 701. Type Mike Sinclair or BRS in the archive.
Art
martyn(at)flight.co.za wrote:
Hello,
Has anybody here installed a Balistic recovery Parachute system to thier
701. If so what make and where did you attach the device.
Sincerely
Martyn Ward
CH701 - ZU-DPL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
Original design (Experimental category) and LSA standards.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK
"http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Southern
Reflections
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:33 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: VNE
I n the Zenith owner"s manual the "limitation" post the VNE @ 150. mph,
on there web site the vne is 180 ! what's wrong with this picture ?
This is for a 601 XL I also haven't seen a stated HP max. I know there
are 601's out there with 140 HP, mine is 130 hp . For what? if the Vne
is 150. I am prone to belive 180 mph but , don't want to pull the
wing's off. Joe N101HD 601 XL/ Subaru
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Zenith-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
9/25/2007 8:02 AM
9/25/2007 8:02 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stanley Challgren <challgren(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Home Built Help |
Skipper Clyde:
Are you saying that you have duplicated Jon's videos and now want to
sell them for $25? Please tell me that you are not stealing his
efforts.
Stan
N701VG
On Sep 25, 2007, at 1:03 PM, SkipperClyde wrote:
>
>
> I recently purchased duplicate of two Homebuilt Help Videos:
>
> Weight & Balance 101 for Homebuilts &
> How To License your Homebuilt Aircraft
>
> If any one is interested, I'll sell each for $25 including
> shipping. Please contact me offline at Bluebird(at)Townsqr.com
>
> thanks
> phil
> 601XL O235 20%
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136391#136391
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Jeffrey L. Davidson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Jeffrey L. Davidson
Lists: Zenith-List
Subject: Zenith Gather 2007 at Winchester, Virginia
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net.09.25.2007/index.html
----------------------------------------------------------
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
----------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Home Built Help |
| From: | "SkipperClyde" <Bluebird(at)Townsqr.com> |
I'm not stealing anyone's efforts.
I purchased duplicate originals and wish to sell one set of unopened, unplayed
originals.
Not unlike buying two of the same engines and deciding I don't need two, so I'll
sell one.
SkipperClyde
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136490#136490
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: avex rivet question |
| From: | "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz> |
The rivet criteria is described in the building handbook, and is primarily set
by the modification to the riveter heads that are machined or obtained from ZAC.
Probably on the website too. The amount of dimpling should just leave a faint
trace of riveter contact on the sheet surface, any dent or permanent crease
is too much.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136498#136498
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage Component Crate Length? |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Skipperclyde,
Just to clarify it for Patrick, was your box just for the fuselage kit or the entire
airplane kit? I am glad mine wasn't that big as I never would have gotten
a 16' box home using my pickup truck. It has a 6.5' bed with a 1.5' tailgate.
That 8' bed was barely enough to haul my 12.5' crate home. I never would
have made it with a 16' crate!
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done, engine next.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136501#136501
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick" <rwripper(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | avex rivet question clarification |
Thanks for the rivet puller side (the formed head) criteria Ralph.
My real concern was regarding the backside/otherside acceptance criteria
of the pulled rivet.
Thanks, Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: avex rivet question clarification |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Dick,
Chris Heintz's Construction Standards manual as well as the Avex spec do not specify
a shop head dimensional requirement. They only publish a grip range spec.
If the actual grip falls into this range, I guess it is assumed that the shop
head dimensions are good. FYI grip range for the A4 rivet = 0-1/4" and A5
= 0-5/16"
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done, engine next.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136512#136512
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage Component Crate Length? |
| From: | "SkipperClyde" <Bluebird(at)Townsqr.com> |
Dave
You are correct, mine is the quick build kit.
Thanks for catching my mistake.
SkipperClyde
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136526#136526
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Hulen" <hulens61(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Open Hanger Day at Zenith |
I hope you will attend Zenith's Open Hanger Day this year. Weather forecast
is wonderful,... mostly sunny with high temperature around 80 degrees!
Check out the big line-up of activities on their web site
http://zenithair.com:80/news/oh2007.html They have really expanded the
activities, special presentations, etc. If you have never been there before
you're in for a really great time. Hope to see you there!
Fred Hulen Jabiru 3300 powered 601 HDS with 292 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dredmoody(at)cox.net> |
Permission granted. The original idea was from Videoflyer and that help plus the
help of a lot of other generous souls has gotten me this far. If I can help
anyone, I'm all for it.
Dred
---- ZodieRocket wrote:
> But they will make a great addition to HYPERLINK
> "http://www.ch601.org/"www.ch601.org with permission.
>
> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
> Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: avex rivet question clarification |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> |
I've pulled hundreds if not thousands of rivets on my plane and I can't think of
one that has failed that there wasn't a problem on the finished side of the
rivet.
So I'm pretty sure that if the shiny side is OK the ship side will be as long as
you are using the proper rivets.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136539#136539
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeyoung65(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: avex rivet question clarification |
In so far as the grip length of pop rivets has came up again I will add my
two cents. Check the way rivet grip length are given in all manuals. For a
button heador dome head rivet the grip length is from the BOTTOM of the head.
Now on a countersunk rivet the grip length is from the TOP of the head. David
and all others that I have seen on this site list Avex's grip length for the
countersunk rivets. Zenith has chose to take a countersunk rivet and form the
into a button head but does not change the grip lenth. Has anyone who is in
the know taken a countersunk rivet and installed it through a max. grip
material and checked the formed end? Will the rivet be formed OK? Jerry of GA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Re: avex rivet question clarification |
> David and all others that I have seen on this site list Avex's grip
length for the countersunk rivets.
In their construction standards (page 10) Zenith lists grip lengths of 0-1/4
inch (0-6mm) for the A4 and 0-5/16 inch (0-8mm) for the A5. Are they
allowing for the difference? Do their numbers differ from the Avex docs?
www.zenithair.com/pdf-doc/zenair%20construction%20standards%20draft%201-07.p
df
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Hays <alhays(at)hickoryhillfarmsheep.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage Component Crate Length? |
Patrick,
My 601XL fuselage kit (including canopy, landing gear and controls
kits) was in a crate 4 feet wide and 10 1/2 feet long. I wouldn't want
to bet on all crates for the same component kits being the same length.
It may vary depending on the dimensions of crating material on hand at
the factory and how they can use it with minimum waste of material and
time. My parts probably would have fit in a crate of slightly smaller
length, width and height but at more cost of time and wood scraps to
dispose of.
The crate for the 701 kit I received early last year was about 12 1/2
feet long as I recall. I was glad they used screws throughout the
crate which made it easy to take apart without damaging the lumber and
plywood and nearly all the screws are reusable. The crate materials
make real nice shelves to hold all the parts out of harms way till
you're ready for them.
Unfortunately, the 601XL fuselage kit was assembled with only a few
screws but mostly gunned roofing and framing nails. It's more trouble
to take apart without damaging the material or oneself and the crate
isn't as strong. I hope there is a worthwhile savings at the factory
end by changing to nails.
I found that my 5x10 utility trailer with ramp/tailgate worked okay
with the ramp folded down into the bed and the crate on top. It stuck
out the back some but I had the heavier end to the front and could have
added weight to the front if needed.
Al
ZenVair601XL starting fuselage
CH 701 on "back burner"
On Sep 25, 2007, at 3:09 PM, PatrickW wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me exactly how long the crate is for the 601XL
> fuselage component kit...? So I can arrange for a trailer. I
> couldn't find it in the archives.
>
> I learned the hard way (with my wing kit) that there's a BIG
> difference between "12 feet" and "12 feet 6 inches". Especially when
> you try to use a 12 foot trailer with a tailgate... :)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Patrick
> XLCorvair
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136392#136392
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Loer" <rloer(at)aceweb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Balistic Recovery Parachute |
Why do I get posts like the one below that appear to be blank? Am I doing something
wrong?
------- Original Message -------
>From : Art Olechowski[mailto:ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net]
Sent : 9/25/2007 6:40:06 PM
To : zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Cc :
Subject : RE: Re: Zenith-List: Balistic Recovery Parachute
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
| From: | "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com> |
I would highly encourage anybody to get their license first, and fly for
a couple years first before buying or starting a kit. The plane you desire
after you have some experience may be vastly different than what
you think you want now.
A kit is a MAJOR commitment of time, you might regret it later. In fact
the difference between low wing and high wing in itself is something you
might find you have a preference change, from just having some time in
the saddle.
Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136586#136586
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Balistic Recovery Parachute |
> So what about a Balistic Recovery system for the 601? Anyone have any
information?
Scott has the nicest installation I've seen:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/BRS.html
Also look on the Photo guide CD for this file: extras\brs-chute-601.pdf
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Balistic Recovery Parachute |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> |
Scott has a bunch of photos of his installation on his site.
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/BRS.html
stshuck2(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> So what about a Balistic Recovery system for the 601? Anyone have any information?
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136593#136593
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: avex rivet question clarification |
| From: | jeyoung65(at)aol.com |
The grip length on Zenithair and Avex are the same so there is no allowance for
the difference. Jerry-GA
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:31 am
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: avex rivet question clarification
?> ?David and all others that I have seen on this site list Avex's grip length
for the countersunk rivets.?
?
In their construction standards (page 10) Zenith lists grip lengths of 0-1/4 inch
(0-6mm) for the A4 and 0-5/16 inch (0-8mm) for the A5. Are they allowing for
the difference? Do their numbers differ from the Avex docs?
?
www.zenithair.com/pdf-doc/zenair%20construction%20standards%20draft%201-07.pdf?
?
-- Craig
?
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
| From: | "AB_Summit" <rengler(at)TELUS.NET> |
n85ae wrote:
> I would highly encourage anybody to get their license first, and fly for
> a couple years first before buying or starting a kit. The plane you desire
> after you have some experience may be vastly different than what
> you think you want now.
>
> A kit is a MAJOR commitment of time, you might regret it later. In fact
> the difference between low wing and high wing in itself is something you
> might find you have a preference change, from just having some time in
> the saddle.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff
Realistically I can't afford to fly if I have to pay $158/hr for dual instruction
in a 152 and $110/hr to rent a 152 solo. Scratch building is a way that I'll
be able to still be able to be involved in aviation in a way that fits my budget.
When I'm done I can fly the 701 under a Canadian ultralight permit, which
is much cheaper to get than a PPL.
Regarding not knowing the type of flying I want to do or the type of plane I want,
I'm pretty sure I have a good idea. I've got a wife and 3 kids, so unless
I buy a Cherokee 6 or a Cessna 206 (which is totally beyond my budget) I'm not
going to be doing any cross countries with the family.
My interests lie mostly in the outdoors, so here's the type of stuff I'd like to
do with my airplane:
- go river flying to scope out a canoe route I've never been down before.
- explore a new snowmobiling area by air.
- go hunting or fishing, or just look for game.
- fly into the rough, high altitude strips on the edge of the mountains near where
I live.
- just go out for a low and slow evening sight-seeing flight with one of my kids.
All of this stuff involves being able to see the ground well and none of it requires
a fast airplane. I doubt my wife will even be interested in flying with
me, so based on that I think a 701 with bubble doors will suit me just fine. There
a lots of other airplanes that could do the job and probably be better at
cross country stuff, but none that can be obtained as cheaply as a scratch built
701. If money was no object I'd just buy a Maule or a Cessna 180, but the
cost of an overhaul alone for one of those planes would pay for my whole 701 project.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136615#136615
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> |
AB,
If that is how you are going to use the plane the 701 is perfect for you. I do
have one suggestion though. Get you wife at least somewhat excited about it. Your
life will be better over the next 7 or 8 years.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136618#136618
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery cable size |
Solder wicks up into the wire through capillary action. that causes all the
flex to occur at the point where the solder ends... that's where it is
going to break not at the connector. Personally if a joint is going to be
subjected to vibration, regardless of the wire size, I'll pass on the
solder.
So far I have resoldered a #24 wire three times in my GPS. It always
breaks at the point where the solder ends. This is a very small wire which
connects the external power tab to the positive terminal of the circuit
board.
Before any one asks I haven't done a cold solder joint in more than thirty
years.
Noel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Fogelson <t_fogelson(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery cable size |
I second what Noel says, all military wiring is crimp
type lugs, not soldered. The only thing I have ever
seen soldered on a military aircraft is small wires
into a cannon plug, but then there is a strain relief
to keep the wire from flexing at the solder joint.
There is also lots of clamps and tiewraps around wire
bundles.
Terry
--- Noel Loveys wrote:
> Solder wicks up into the wire through capillary
> action. that causes all the
> flex to occur at the point where the solder ends...
> that's where it is
> going to break not at the connector. Personally if
> a joint is going to be
> subjected to vibration, regardless of the wire size,
> I'll pass on the
> solder.
>
> So far I have resoldered a #24 wire three times in
> my GPS. It always
> breaks at the point where the solder ends. This is
> a very small wire which
> connects the external power tab to the positive
> terminal of the circuit
> board.
>
> Before any one asks I haven't done a cold solder
> joint in more than thirty
> years.
>
> Noel
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
Thats a good thing, if he can make it happen. I would thiink it
would very basic and not,climb or fly that fast IF he can bring it in at
that price. Funny you should quote that number, thats the price we were
shooting at . As you move along things change, not to forget mistakes
etc. I'am not saying that it can't happen.i'am saying there's a good
chance it won't happen. Best of luck to him
Joe N101HD 601HD XL / RAM
----- Original Message -----
From: William Dominguez
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get
into aviation?
AB is scratch building, if he goes with the alternative engine route,
he will be well bellow $30K.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
http://williamdominguez.myphotoalbum.com
Bill Naumuk wrote:
AB-
REALITY CHECK!
Not quite. Very few Zenith builders get out for less than $30K-$40K.
You could buy a zero-time engine for that.
The money is trivial, the time you spend building isn't. I don't
want
to think about what my HDS actually cost if I counted the hours I've
spent
on my project at the rate I get at work. However, I'm sure I still
beat the
cost of a new Cessna 162. Buying used is a different story.
After a while, you'll find out. Money IS no object when you
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Lykowski <engineerguy3737(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | HELP Advice please!!! |
All,
I am looking for advice on what to do about this. I have contacted the shipper
and will tomorrow morning (9/27) be contacting Zenith to find out what I need
to do to make a claim. I don't know if the spar is bent, but it has some nasty
gouges in it. The instructions on the shipping slip says to leave everything
in the state of when I found the damage.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lykowdk/DamagedCrate
I know this is not Zeniths fault.
Any advice will be very much appreciated.
Why do I always get crappy shippers.
Dan Lykowski
Dynon Avioncs
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Ray" <davgray(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HELP Advice please!!! |
So far So Good, I would self document with several of my own pictures also.
Don't rely on shippers for safe keeping of any records. It is always good
to open a damaged box while the delivery truck is there, or refuse the
delivery if the packaging is suspect.
Gary Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Lykowski" <engineerguy3737(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 1:17 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: HELP Advice please!!!
>
>
> All,
> I am looking for advice on what to do about this. I have contacted the
shipper and will tomorrow morning (9/27) be contacting Zenith to find out
what I need to do to make a claim. I don't know if the spar is bent, but it
has some nasty gouges in it. The instructions on the shipping slip says to
leave everything in the state of when I found the damage.
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lykowdk/DamagedCrate
>
> I know this is not Zeniths fault.
>
> Any advice will be very much appreciated.
> Why do I always get crappy shippers.
>
> Dan Lykowski
> Dynon Avioncs
>
>
> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
> http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
>
>
> --
8:20 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob" <rfg842(at)cox.net> |
This may be way off the subject of building but our airport was sold and
the
net result, I've lost my hanger. I moved to another municipal airport wh
o
will lease me land to build a hanger and now I'm looking for options to b
uy
and erect a hanger. Would like a 50 X 60 to provide both building and
aircraft storage.
Anyone with recommendations?
Bob, Wichita
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
Are you scratch building?
You sort of imply that cheaper will result in a low performing plane. I disagree.
Cheaper is more the result of learning to do more things yourself and be willing
to wait more time for your chance to fly, and less the result of cutting
corners and ending up with a low performing plane.
It is all about paying with time vs. paying with money.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
http://williamdominguez.myphotoalbum.com
Southern Reflections wrote: Thats a good thing,
if he can make it happen. I would thiink it would very basic and not,climb
or fly that fast IF he can bring it in at that price. Funny you should
quote that number, thats the price we were shooting at . As you move along things
change, not to forget mistakes etc. I'am not saying that it can't happen.i'am
saying there's a good chance it won't happen. Best of luck to him
Joe N101HD 601HD XL /
RAM
----- Original Message -----
From: William Dominguez
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into
aviation?
AB is scratch building, if he goes with the alternative engine route, he will
be well bellow $30K.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
http://williamdominguez.myphotoalbum.com
Bill Naumuk wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted
by: "Bill Naumuk"
AB-
REALITY CHECK!
Not quite. Very few Zenith builders get out for less than $30K-$40K.
You could buy a zero-time engine for that.
The money is trivial, the time you spend building isn't. I don't want
to think about what my HDS actually cost if I counted the hours I've spent
on my project at the rate I get at work. However, I'm sure I still beat the
cost of a new Cessna 162. Buying used is a different story.
After a while, you'll find out. Money IS no object when you
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
| From: | "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com> |
Sounds to me like you've convinced yourself already. But just in case,
here's my perspective. Admittedly it might come across as negative,
but it's the same advice I would give anybody.
Ok, I've built two, and flown a lot as a rental pilot. Being a rental pilot cost
me a LOT less than being a kit owner. Don't kid yourself about saving
money. There is not any Zenith Kit, or plans built that's going to cost less
than $30K when you're done. That is a LOT of rental flying. In fact I
paid a substantial amount less than that for ALL of my flight training
which includes my private, instrument, complex endorsement, tailwheel
endorsement, mountain training, and commercial.
Homebuilt planes are great, but there is not a day goes by that I don't
have some feelings about the amount of time, and money I commit to
them. In order to complete a plane, you will have to adopt the attitude
that no matter what else you want to do you, absolutely you have to
force time into your life to go out to the shop. After day 300 and you're
doing some tedious task for 10,000th time you might find yourself
wishing you were just done with it. Fully 50% of projects are never
completed.
I say get a couple years in the saddle first.
Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136760#136760
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | george.mueller(at)aurora.org |
I elected to install a BRS in my 701, and there is a drawing on the Zenith
builders area on the website showing how it is installed. I agree with a
lot of what Mark at Can Zac says about the BRS in a previous post. 99% of
the time you should be able to put the 701 down if you have an engine
failure etc. However during my flying career I have increasingly liked
the idea of having options and keeping options open. It is a bad feeling
to be down to your last option during a flight with all your chips on the
outcome of that one option. It is much worse, I imagine, to be out of
options during a flight.
The negatives of the BRS are it costs a lot, it uses up 30 pounds of the
40 pounds capacity in you baggage area, and it is a less than elegant
installation. In my case I have wing leading edge tape covering the
straps that are exposed on the top of the fuselage. (There are some better
solutions out there, like fabricating channels, etc.)
The positive to the BRS is to have just one last option in case something
very unlikely happens, but these things do happen. Here are two examples.
My EAA tech counselor for my 701 project built a RV 6A. He was a very
fastidious builder, much better than I, and a very careful pilot. He was
flying formation with another RV 8 and they hit each while they were
breaking for approach to landing. Neither plane was damaged that much by
the collision, but the RV 8 had a little less damage than the RV6A, and
was able to land. The RV 6A crashed killing my tech counselor. Now
nobody puts a BRS into an RV because the installation is not feasible, but
if he would have had one, it is very possible he would have been able to
deploy it, and the deployment would have saved him. A second example. A
long time ago I used to get aerobatic training in a Decathlon with a
30,000 hour flight instructor. When the International Aerobatic Club
competitions were at Fond Du Lac, WI he used to inspect the aircraft
before the competition and they used to joke about how his inspections
were "annuals". Ironically, the Decathlon he instructed in had an
improperly welded wing to strut fitting and it took a long time, but it
finally broke. Now nobody puts a BRS in an aerobatic aircraft because you
have chutes and you do the maneuvers with a 3,000 agl floor so you can get
out. But the instructor and his student could not get out in time,
possibly because of interference from the wing, and they were both killed.
If they would have had a BRS it would have very possibly saved them both.
Will I ever use the BRS? Very unlikely, especially in a 701. The most
likely scenario would be a mid air that left me with enough wits to pull
the handle. Or maybe my passenger pulls the handle when I grab my chest
and slump over. For many folks the negatives of a BRS outweigh the
positives, and 99.99% of the time they are exactly right. But I
personally would put a BRS in any aircraft I owned if it was feasible,
because it is just one more option available to you during a flight and
having that option there is worth something to me even if it never is
used.
George in Milwaukee
701 912UL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hanger search |
Bob, try www.hangerdoorsecrets.com gotta pay a few bucks for the
download but it has saved several guys at our airpark THOUSANDS and
given them better doors to boot. Unfortunately I built my hanger 22 yrs
ago so just built 3 section rolling doors on tracks, cheap and still
works fine with almost zero maintenance. Used 2" square tubing. Would
use 3" if doing it again.
Make it bigger than you can afford, no such thing as a hanger too big,
mine is 60 wide 40 deep but as I moved out of a 2 car garage all my
"stuff" swelled up so by the time I made the trip across town the hanger
was almost filled up, by the next morning I was out of room again.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 8:18 AM
Subject: xxx Zenith-List: Hanger search
This may be way off the subject of building but our airport was
sold and the net result, I've lost my hanger. I moved to another
municipal airport who will lease me land to build a hanger and now I'm
looking for options to buy and erect a hanger. Would like a 50 X 60 to
provide both building and aircraft storage.
Anyone with recommendations?
Bob, Wichita
====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" <Keith.Ashcraft(at)itt.com> |
Bob,
You might try this place. I see them advertise in Kitplanes, and AOPA
Pilot. See what they have to offer.
http://www.miracletruss.com/
Keith
*************************************************************************
**************************
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Bob
Sent: Thu 9/27/2007 7:18 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Hanger search
This may be way off the subject of building but our airport was sold and
the
net result, I've lost my hanger. I moved to another municipal airport
who
will lease me land to build a hanger and now I'm looking for options to
buy
and erect a hanger. Would like a 50 X 60 to provide both building and
aircraft storage.
Anyone with recommendations?
Bob, Wichita
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dredmoody(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
Ditto. I am admittedly, a tinkerer and I could and should cut to the chase and
progress more quickly on my 601XL build. With that caveat out of the way, I will
tell you that I am currently at 670 hours on a 601XL and I'm just beginning
to do some wiring. I haven't even begun to fit the wings to the fuselage yet
(the %$!##!*!! hangar project is not complete yet...... oh yeah, should we add
in the cost of the hangar that I would not need if I was renting?) nor have
I begun the FWF work.
I built the rudder at a factory workshop in December 2005 and recevied the entire
kit in mid March 2006. My final building cost will probably be $55K - $60K.
I previously built a fat ultralight 2 place trainer which I still fly and that
ate up 450 hours and $22K. This plane is very likely the last one I will build
for myself because I resent the massive domination of my spare time despite my
desire and determination to finish this plane. I'm doing it because the plane's
abilities fit the flying I want to be able to do without having find a rental
plane and reserve it well ahead of time for every flight. If I want to stay
overnight... no problemo.... it's my plane. Last minute opportunity to go aloft?
Likewise.
Make no mistake, renting IS cheaper and does not eat up your time like some black
hole that just popped up in your schedule book. The only sane reasons to build
your own plane (oxymoron) are your own pride and self satisfaction combined
with the convenience of being in control of the use of the plane. What I have
spent and am currently spending on my two planes AND the hangar would pay the
rent for 665 hours at $200/hour. That would just about triple my current flying
time (325) and I'd be sitting on the interest rather than paying for the plane
and hangar up front..... not an insignificant little distinction there.
Oh and BTW, that calculation does not include the value of the hours I've put in
so far and the hours left to finish N4568G (res.). On top of that, who can estimate
the toll on one's family if they are not the "let's go out to the shop
and help dad build an airplane" type of folks?
This ain't no Polyanna story and it's not a rant to discourage the prospective
builder either. It's just an honest look at the big picture for those who are
interested.
Dred
---- n85ae wrote:
>
> Sounds to me like you've convinced yourself already. But just in case,
> here's my perspective. Admittedly it might come across as negative,
> but it's the same advice I would give anybody.
>
> Ok, I've built two, and flown a lot as a rental pilot. Being a rental pilot cost
> me a LOT less than being a kit owner. Don't kid yourself about saving
> money. There is not any Zenith Kit, or plans built that's going to cost less
> than $30K when you're done. That is a LOT of rental flying. In fact I
> paid a substantial amount less than that for ALL of my flight training
> which includes my private, instrument, complex endorsement, tailwheel
> endorsement, mountain training, and commercial.
>
> Homebuilt planes are great, but there is not a day goes by that I don't
> have some feelings about the amount of time, and money I commit to
> them. In order to complete a plane, you will have to adopt the attitude
> that no matter what else you want to do you, absolutely you have to
> force time into your life to go out to the shop. After day 300 and you're
> doing some tedious task for 10,000th time you might find yourself
> wishing you were just done with it. Fully 50% of projects are never
> completed.
>
> I say get a couple years in the saddle first.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
How much would you estimate the airframe of a scratch
built 601XL could cost, including extra material to cover for mistakes?
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://williamdominguez.myphotoalbum.com
Sounds to me like you've convinced yourself already. But just in case,
here's my perspective. Admittedly it might come across as negative,
but it's the same advice I would give anybody.
Ok, I've built two, and flown a lot as a rental pilot. Being a rental pilot cost
me a LOT less than being a kit owner. Don't kid yourself about saving
money. There is not any Zenith Kit, or plans built that's going to cost less
than $30K when you're done. That is a LOT of rental flying. In fact I
paid a substantial amount less than that for ALL of my flight training
which includes my private, instrument, complex endorsement, tailwheel
endorsement, mountain training, and commercial.
Homebuilt planes are great, but there is not a day goes by that I don't
have some feelings about the amount of time, and money I commit to
them. In order to complete a plane, you will have to adopt the attitude
that no matter what else you want to do you, absolutely you have to
force time into your life to go out to the shop. After day 300 and you're
doing some tedious task for 10,000th time you might find yourself
wishing you were just done with it. Fully 50% of projects are never
completed.
I say get a couple years in the saddle first.
Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136760#136760
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
| From: | "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com> |
I would hate to guess, but I think to get anything flyable, the absolute
rock bottom in dollars is probably $30K.
To build something with any kind of panel, and a decent engine you'll
be in the $50-60K range, at least if you want something nice.
Another thing to consider, is you do NOT want to be a low time pilot
flying a homebuilt plane. I mean, obviously people do, but it is not
smart.
You're going to spend 40-60 hours flight training just to be able to fly
some type of a trainer, then 40-60 more hours just becoming an ok
pilot on your own. Probably another 100 or so after that to where you
are more than just a rank beginner. That's just reality. I honestly
think a pilot isn't really solid until around 200-300 hours, and in some
cases never.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136796#136796
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
I still don't see how you come up with $30K as rock bottom for the complete airplane.
Thats why I was asking for how much you would guess for an airframe alone,
without engine an instrumentation.
I'm scratch building and I have gone thru the numbers several times. Based on what
I have spent so far, how much I already have and some budgeting projections,
my airframe will realistically come about 7K. That is at current prices and
includes realistic reserve for damaged parts and purchasing of some parts that
I might not make. So, adding 12K for a Corvair conversion including FWF and
5K for instrumentation we are talking about 24K.
Scott Laughlin posted some time ago, right when he was close to completing his
project, how much he has spend in his project so far, and his numbers where way
under my estimate.
Are you a scratch builder? I'm trying to see if I'm missing something very big
money wise or if kit builders really tend overestimate the cost of scratch building.
I believe the answer is somewhere in between.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
I would hate to guess, but I think to get anything flyable, the absolute
rock bottom in dollars is probably $30K.
To build something with any kind of panel, and a decent engine you'll
be in the $50-60K range, at least if you want something nice.
Another thing to consider, is you do NOT want to be a low time pilot
flying a homebuilt plane. I mean, obviously people do, but it is not
smart.
You're going to spend 40-60 hours flight training just to be able to fly
some type of a trainer, then 40-60 more hours just becoming an ok
pilot on your own. Probably another 100 or so after that to where you
are more than just a rank beginner. That's just reality. I honestly
think a pilot isn't really solid until around 200-300 hours, and in some
cases never.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136796#136796
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
| From: | "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com> |
Well, I don't gain anything by your not building a plane so there's
nothing for me to win here. I'm just telling you the way it is. Go build
one, and come back in a few years and let me know what you
spent. :)
Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136831#136831
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET> |
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
Hi William,
One thing you are obviously missing is labor. You are probably
planning on spending 5 or 10 years of your life building your
plane. You may not want to count that as monetary value, but even if
it doesn't cost you cash it does cost you years you could be doing
something else.
You may also be missing little things like wheels and tires which are
around $2000. If you plan to use paint on your plane that is
probably another thousand or so. And then there are seats. Lets not
forget all the tools you will need. Do you have welding
equipment? How about paint gun and compressor? Do you need to pay
taxes to your state and/or local government? Also, the original
poster was in Canada so the money exchange rates might come into play.
I am not suggesting scratch building is a bad idea. I chose standard
kit approach myself, but either choice has merit.
The one thing I think nobody has mentioned in this incredibly long
discussion is the simple truth that renting airplanes is A LOT LESS
EXPENSIVE than owning them. Once you are flying you probably want to
have insurance and hangar or tie-down expenses. You also face fuel,
maintenance, and countless other expenses while flying your plane.
Years ago it took over 200 hours of flying per year to justify, from
a financial perspective, owning your own plane instead of renting
one. This is way beyond the typical recreational pilot's flying per year.
Like other posters, I think it is WAY LESS EXPENSIVE to take the
conventional route to flight training and rent your plane from an
existing source rather than building your own airplane. If you must
have your own airplane it would be a lot less expensive to buy an old
Champ, Cub, C-150, Cherokee 140, or similar 60 year old plane than to
build your own new plane. That would also give you a plane to fly
now instead of a chance of having one to fly some ten years in the future.
I believe the only reasonable justification for building a plane is
that you want to enjoy building a plane. Nothing else will give
enough motivation to get you to complete such a tremendous task.
Paul
XL fuselage
Camas, WA
At 10:16 AM 9/27/2007, you wrote:
>I still don't see how you come up with $30K as rock bottom for the
>complete airplane. Thats why I was asking for how much you would
>guess for an airframe alone, without engine an instrumentation.
>
>I'm scratch building and I have gone thru the numbers several times.
>Based on what I have spent so far, how much I already have and some
>budgeting projections, my airframe will realistically come about 7K.
>That is at current prices and includes realistic reserve for damaged
>parts and purchasing of some parts that I might not make. So, adding
>12K for a Corvair conversion including FWF and 5K for
>instrumentation we are talking about 24K.
>
>Scott Laughlin posted some time ago, right when he was close to
>completing his project, how much he has spend in his project so far,
>and his numbers where way under my estimate.
>
>Are you a scratch builder? I'm trying to see if I'm missing
>something very big money wise or if kit builders really tend
>overestimate the cost of scratch building. I believe the answer is
>somewhere in between.
>
>William Dominguez
>Zodiac 601XL Plans
>Miami, Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <n1345p(at)suddenlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
I agree with Jeff. Too many homebuilts are started and never finished. Find someone
to help you find a local plane or rent and learn to fly first. Learning
to fly and building a plane is a too big of a job to do without a lot of help.
If you don't have a pilot certificate, you can fly-off the test hours, when
you learn to fly in your own homebuilt, you or someone will likely spend a lot
of time getting the bugs out of the airplane - making it fly straight, engine
run correct and so forth. Get some flying experience before you try to do this
on your own.
When I became interested in flying, about 20 years ago, I was looking for the least
expensive way to get into the air. I went around the circle: Build a plane,
buy a unfinished homebuilt, get a used SpamCan, Build, Buy, Certified, build,
buy, certified... lets see, Zenith, Vans, kitfox, Cessna, piper......
I looked at a lot of homebuilts and noted that lots of homebuilts never get completed,
or never get flown much. Fact is, saw a email today on the kitfox list
for a homebuilt completed in 1994 and only 40 hours of total time; must not
have liked it.
In '97, I finally bought a '57 C172 for $19,500, finished private pilot, instrument
rating, Comm, CFI-I, ME, A&P... I'm convinced that I can fly and own that
old C172 cheaper than any homebuilt, LSA, Challenger, and when I was ready to
move up to a faster plane, I sold it for $25,000. Burned 87 unleaded, found
an A&P to supervise maintenance, We could actually go somewhere, fly in the clouds,
the whole shootin-match.
I'm currently flying the test hours off a fellow's ASAP Chanook+2 (UL style LSA).
Its cold and windy, not very fast, burns 100LL or 92UL. Doesn't have adjustable
trim, VFR-day-only, doesn't carry two fat people very well, and probably
cost as much as a 50's model c172.
So if you are just starting out, rent at least up to solo, then buy an old spam
can (C172, PA28...), and sell the spam can when your are ready to buy an engine
for your homebuilt.
Mitch - considering a CH701 as an LSA...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
| From: | "Mitch Hodges" <n601mh(at)HODGES.INFO> |
psm(at)ATT.NET wrote:
> I think it is WAY LESS EXPENSIVE to take the
> conventional route to flight training and rent your plane from an
> existing source rather than building your own airplane.
>
[/quote]
To be completely fair to someone new, you also have to consider some of the "hidden"
costs of flying our beloved experimental aircraft (or flying in general).
These are things like added costs, or exclusions, on life and AD&D insurance
for flying experimental aircraft (assuming you find a policy that will cover
you while flying). I believe even AOPA's group term life insurance only pays
50% when flying an experimental aircraft.
At the end of the day, its still worth it for me, but it is things to consider.
--------
N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)
Wings Under Construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136836#136836
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
Don't misinterpret me, I'm not trying to get into a contest here. My project will
take whatever it will take. I just want to understand where I have it wrong
in my estimate if any. I believe you have better reason than the ones you have
provide so far but you have not giving me these reasons and I would like to
know them. In other words, I want to know what is your basis to state that it
wont come for less than 30K. If you don't mind, I want to know your reasons and
not just "this is the way it is".
Feel free to answer me off list if you wish.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
Well, I don't gain anything by your not building a plane so there's
nothing for me to win here. I'm just telling you the way it is. Go build
one, and come back in a few years and let me know what you
spent. :)
Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136831#136831
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery cable size |
| From: | "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com> |
I've soldered a LOT of connectors in Grumman E-2C's, so they definetly
are out there. However they are on the way out.
There are several reason solder isn't used much now:
1). Most people solder poorly, and even a lot of people who think they don't solder
poorly actually do. AND even perfect looking solder joints, when examined
under a microscope some times you can see a clear
separation line between the solder and the cup (i.e. the solder is simply
acting as a filler). I worked a job where everything we soldered was
inspected under a scope, that's how I know this. Even in a professional
shop, with a good QA department, almost everything hand soldered
would go through a couple iterations of rework before passing final
inspection.
2). Any trained ape can properly crimp connectors AND consistently
if they use the right tools.
I personally took a fly cutter and replaced the cutter with a swiveling
post. I attached a 18 gauge tefzel wire with an Amp crimp connector to
the post. The fly cutter was mounted in my drill press. I attached the
other end of the wire to the drill press frame with a spring so the wire
was under constant tension. I then turned on the drill press at let it
run. It was a couple hours before the crimped wire broke. It broke 1/2"
from the crimp in the insulated part of the wire. The crimp did not fail.
Use whatever you want, but for me I'll always use crimp connectors.
Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136847#136847
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
You got it Paul, Thanks.
I agree that renting will always be cheaper. I guess that I have taken this thread
out of its original topic into something different.
You are right, I'm not considering the labor I'm putting in my project because
I enjoy doing it and I'm not paying for it with money. For me, labor is anything
that people do for money but don't necessarily enjoy it. I'm enjoying this
project more now after a year of work than when I started. I'm afraid that if
the enjoyment keeps growing it might become an addiction. I'm keeping an eye on
myself, don't want to end up in a 12 step recovery program from airplane builders
anonymous.
You are right that those details you have mentioned (seats, paints) can add up
and they are easy to underestimate.
However, Scott Laughlin plane came under 20K if I remember correctly.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
Hi William,
One thing you are obviously missing is labor. You are probably
planning on spending 5 or 10 years of your life building your
plane. You may not want to count that as monetary value, but even if
it doesn't cost you cash it does cost you years you could be doing
something else.
You may also be missing little things like wheels and tires which are
around $2000. If you plan to use paint on your plane that is
probably another thousand or so. And then there are seats. Lets not
forget all the tools you will need. Do you have welding
equipment? How about paint gun and compressor? Do you need to pay
taxes to your state and/or local government? Also, the original
poster was in Canada so the money exchange rates might come into play.
I am not suggesting scratch building is a bad idea. I chose standard
kit approach myself, but either choice has merit.
The one thing I think nobody has mentioned in this incredibly long
discussion is the simple truth that renting airplanes is A LOT LESS
EXPENSIVE than owning them. Once you are flying you probably want to
have insurance and hangar or tie-down expenses. You also face fuel,
maintenance, and countless other expenses while flying your plane.
Years ago it took over 200 hours of flying per year to justify, from
a financial perspective, owning your own plane instead of renting
one. This is way beyond the typical recreational pilot's flying per year.
Like other posters, I think it is WAY LESS EXPENSIVE to take the
conventional route to flight training and rent your plane from an
existing source rather than building your own airplane. If you must
have your own airplane it would be a lot less expensive to buy an old
Champ, Cub, C-150, Cherokee 140, or similar 60 year old plane than to
build your own new plane. That would also give you a plane to fly
now instead of a chance of having one to fly some ten years in the future.
I believe the only reasonable justification for building a plane is
that you want to enjoy building a plane. Nothing else will give
enough motivation to get you to complete such a tremendous task.
Paul
XL fuselage
Camas, WA
At 10:16 AM 9/27/2007, you wrote:
>I still don't see how you come up with $30K as rock bottom for the
>complete airplane. Thats why I was asking for how much you would
>guess for an airframe alone, without engine an instrumentation.
>
>I'm scratch building and I have gone thru the numbers several times.
>Based on what I have spent so far, how much I already have and some
>budgeting projections, my airframe will realistically come about 7K.
>That is at current prices and includes realistic reserve for damaged
>parts and purchasing of some parts that I might not make. So, adding
>12K for a Corvair conversion including FWF and 5K for
>instrumentation we are talking about 24K.
>
>Scott Laughlin posted some time ago, right when he was close to
>completing his project, how much he has spend in his project so far,
>and his numbers where way under my estimate.
>
>Are you a scratch builder? I'm trying to see if I'm missing
>something very big money wise or if kit builders really tend
>overestimate the cost of scratch building. I believe the answer is
>somewhere in between.
>
>William Dominguez
>Zodiac 601XL Plans
>Miami, Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
| From: | "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com> |
My kids some times say, Dad you're so stupid, right after I tell them
something, so I just say uh-huh. :)
What you are missing, is the myriad of little things that make a plane.
Everything from little fasteners, to the cost of paint, etc, etc, etc. Since
you have NOT built one, and a bunch of people on this list have, my
best advice is to consider that several of us are saying the same thing.
If I built another plane (third) based on your specs I'm guessing I would
have a minimal VFR airplane which cost me mid thirties to build, and
4 years labor based on my available time to do these kinds of things.
I would build from a kit, because the $10K you will save making your
own parts, isn't worth the number of hours you will spend doing it. I have
a friend building a Bearhawk from plans, who spent more than a year
forming parts for his wings ... When he was done, he was at the same
point a kit builder starts from on day 1.
Best Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136855#136855
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
William,
Ditto.you can build a Pietenpol for around $10k. You can also buy them for
around the same, plus they are easy to fly. I also think that 30k is way
high.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Dominguez
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into
aviation?
Don't misinterpret me, I'm not trying to get into a contest here. My project
will take whatever it will take. I just want to understand where I have it
wrong in my estimate if any. I believe you have better reason than the ones
you have provide so far but you have not giving me these reasons and I would
like to know them. In other words, I want to know what is your basis to
state that it wont come for less than 30K. If you don't mind, I want to know
your reasons and not just "this is the way it is".
Feel free to answer me off list if you wish.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
n85ae wrote:
Well, I don't gain anything by your not building a plane so there's
nothing for me to win here. I'm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
Thanks. As Paul also said, is all the little things. The devil is always in the
details.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://williamdominguez.myphotoalbum.com
My kids some times say, Dad you're so stupid, right after I tell them
something, so I just say uh-huh. :)
What you are missing, is the myriad of little things that make a plane.
Everything from little fasteners, to the cost of paint, etc, etc, etc. Since
you have NOT built one, and a bunch of people on this list have, my
best advice is to consider that several of us are saying the same thing.
If I built another plane (third) based on your specs I'm guessing I would
have a minimal VFR airplane which cost me mid thirties to build, and
4 years labor based on my available time to do these kinds of things.
I would build from a kit, because the $10K you will save making your
own parts, isn't worth the number of hours you will spend doing it. I have
a friend building a Bearhawk from plans, who spent more than a year
forming parts for his wings ... When he was done, he was at the same
point a kit builder starts from on day 1.
Best Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136855#136855
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Herb Heaton" <Heatonhe36(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
Bill,
I have to agree with you. I'm at $10,000 for the entire airframe
including the turbo Subaru and tools. I still have to buy the
instruments and radio, but that shouldn't be more than $5,000. I think
plans building is much cheaper than any other method as long as you are
willing to scrounge for material and willing to put in a lot of time
making what ever you need. Besides, it is very satisfying to know you
made every part in the plane with your own hands.
Herb Heaton
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Colorado Springs, CO
----- Original Message -----
From: William Dominguez<mailto:bill_dom(at)yahoo.com>
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get
into aviation?
I still don't see how you come up with $30K as rock bottom for the
complete airplane. Thats why I was asking for how much you would guess
for an airframe alone, without engine an instrumentation.
I'm scratch building and I have gone thru the numbers several times.
Based on what I have spent so far, how much I already have and some
budgeting projections, my airframe will realistically come about 7K.
That is at current prices and includes realistic reserve for damaged
parts and purchasing of some parts that I might not make. So, adding 12K
for a Corvair conversion including FWF and 5K for instrumentation we are
talking about 24K.
Scott Laughlin posted some time ago, right when he was close to
completing his project, how much he has spend in his project so far, and
his numbers where way under my estimate.
Are you a scratch builder? I'm trying to see if I'm missing something
very big money wise or if kit builders really tend overestimate the cost
of scratch building. I believe the answer is somewhere in between.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
n85ae wrote:
I would hate to guess, but I think to get anything flyable, the
absolute
rock bottom in dollars is probably $30K.
To build something with any kind of panel, and a decent engine
you'll
be in the $50-60K range, at least if you want something nice.
Another thing to consider, is you do NOT want to be a low time pilot
flying a homebuilt plane. I mean, obviously people do, but it is not
smart.
You're going to spend 40-60 hours flight training just to be able to
fly
some type of a trainer, then 40-60 more hours just becoming an ok
pilot on your own. Probably
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
avigator?Zenith-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
Jeff, that's the way I feel also, so I say again" go for it" and find our
for himself . Ijust want to know does he want the 150.00 used prop or the
1500.00 new Prince P- TIP the good brakes or the so,so ones The 150.00
hand held or the1000.00 I-Com the regular exhaust pipes or the custom
built,tuned ,cermaic coated ,the painted engine frame,or the powder coated
one and the list goes on and on.... again I say it, and I mean it The best
of luck to you both. By the way ,if you want talk to some one that can tell
you every thing,and any thing, that you want to know about scratch builbing
get Larry Mc farland to give some in put. To me he knows alot, there there
are more people on here that can give you the correct info, he has helped
me greatly , I'am not a scratch builder,but he is go on his web site and
look at his plane,and his work., that's a airplane.. Joe N101HD 601
XL/RAM
----- Original Message -----
From: "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:20 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into
aviation?
>
> Well, I don't gain anything by your not building a plane so there's
> nothing for me to win here. I'm just telling you the way it is. Go build
> one, and come back in a few years and let me know what you
> spent. :)
>
> Regards,
> Jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136831#136831
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into |
aviation?
Exactly right! If you're not building because you love the process and
just want to fly, you may never get it done. I took 5-1/2 years for my
HDS and it was the sweetest
build time I'll ever have spent. You're also correct about the empty
workshop syndrome. I've built recumbent bikes since and now look
forward to the next serious project. The HDS is a joy to fly and I seem
never to get past being in test and evaluation mode. I'm still learning
about seasonal flight characteristics and feel like a kid let loose with
a fabulous toy that never gets boring. Hang in there William!
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Russell J. wrote:
> ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Building as
> a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?
> You got it Paul, Thanks.
> You are right, I'm not considering the labor I'm putting in my project
> because I enjoy doing it and I'm not paying for it with money. For me,
> labor is anything that people do for money but don't necessarily enjoy
> it. I'm enjoying this project more now after a year of work than when
> I started. I'm afraid that if the enjoyment keeps growing it might
> become an addiction.
>
> William Dominguez
> Zodiac 601XL Plans
> Miami, Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
Jusr saw a Advid Flyer on Barnstomers, Yellow,Folding wingc (one pin)
trailer incl. beatiful job 19,500 Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM
----- Original Message -----
From: <n1345p(at)suddenlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into
aviation?
>
> I agree with Jeff. Too many homebuilts are started and never finished.
> Find someone to help you find a local plane or rent and learn to fly
> first. Learning to fly and building a plane is a too big of a job to do
> without a lot of help. If you don't have a pilot certificate, you can
> fly-off the test hours, when you learn to fly in your own homebuilt, you
> or someone will likely spend a lot of time getting the bugs out of the
> airplane - making it fly straight, engine run correct and so forth. Get
> some flying experience before you try to do this on your own.
>
> When I became interested in flying, about 20 years ago, I was looking for
> the least expensive way to get into the air. I went around the circle:
> Build a plane, buy a unfinished homebuilt, get a used SpamCan, Build, Buy,
> Certified, build, buy, certified... lets see, Zenith, Vans, kitfox,
> Cessna, piper......
>
> I looked at a lot of homebuilts and noted that lots of homebuilts never
> get completed, or never get flown much. Fact is, saw a email today on the
> kitfox list for a homebuilt completed in 1994 and only 40 hours of total
> time; must not have liked it.
>
> In '97, I finally bought a '57 C172 for $19,500, finished private pilot,
> instrument rating, Comm, CFI-I, ME, A&P... I'm convinced that I can fly
> and own that old C172 cheaper than any homebuilt, LSA, Challenger, and
> when I was ready to move up to a faster plane, I sold it for $25,000.
> Burned 87 unleaded, found an A&P to supervise maintenance, We could
> actually go somewhere, fly in the clouds, the whole shootin-match.
>
> I'm currently flying the test hours off a fellow's ASAP Chanook+2 (UL
> style LSA). Its cold and windy, not very fast, burns 100LL or 92UL.
> Doesn't have adjustable trim, VFR-day-only, doesn't carry two fat people
> very well, and probably cost as much as a 50's model c172.
>
> So if you are just starting out, rent at least up to solo, then buy an old
> spam can (C172, PA28...), and sell the spam can when your are ready to buy
> an engine for your homebuilt.
>
> Mitch - considering a CH701 as an LSA...
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Klaus Truemper <klaus(at)utdallas.edu> |
| Subject: | Toe Brake Redesign for 601 HDS |
We have redesigned the toe brakes of our 601 HDS so that they become
much more effective. Details are shown on the page
http://www.utdallas.edu/~klaus/Airplane/toe_brakes.html
As a result, the plane is easily stopped, and the brakes hold the plane
even under a full power runup. The latter is needed when departing
from a high density altitude airport with relatively short runway.
On the other hand, the change has been so made that it still is impossible
to lock up the wheels on dry pavement.
Happy flying,
Klaus
--
Klaus Truemper
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science
University of Texas at Dallas
Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and
Computer Science EC31
P.O. Box 830688
Richardson, TX 75083-0688
(972) 883-2712
klaus(at)utdallas.edu
www.utdallas.edu/~klaus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graeme" <graeme(at)coletoolcentre.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
I have recently started scratch building a Ch 701. In australia 6061T6
is expensive but all the alloy for the project will cost less than $3500
aus.
plus main gear leg $400.
I started halfway throught August 2007 and work week nights approx 2-2.5 hrs
most nights.
I have all wing ribs, nose ribs, finished, main spar cut marker up and
drilled, stab and elevator spar cut and bent, rudder upright cut and bent,
wing rear pieces made.
I expect to have it finished with a S/H 912 80hp Rotax for approx $20000
aus.
a ch701 fuse kit landed in Australia is over $25000aus.
I own a CH701 which I rebuilt and re engined with a S/H 912 80hp after a
GSC propellor Failure.
I will be upgrading the 912 by fitting 912extra pistons $1000 aus and hope
to get 90 plus HP for same weight.
Graeme Cairns
From: "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:07 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into
aviation?
>
> My kids some times say, Dad you're so stupid, right after I tell them
> something, so I just say uh-huh. :)
>
> What you are missing, is the myriad of little things that make a plane.
> Everything from little fasteners, to the cost of paint, etc, etc, etc.
> Since
> you have NOT built one, and a bunch of people on this list have, my
> best advice is to consider that several of us are saying the same thing.
>
> If I built another plane (third) based on your specs I'm guessing I would
> have a minimal VFR airplane which cost me mid thirties to build, and
> 4 years labor based on my available time to do these kinds of things.
>
> I would build from a kit, because the $10K you will save making your
> own parts, isn't worth the number of hours you will spend doing it. I have
> a friend building a Bearhawk from plans, who spent more than a year
> forming parts for his wings ... When he was done, he was at the same
> point a kit builder starts from on day 1.
>
> Best Regards,
> Jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136855#136855
>
>
> --
> 27/09/2007 5:00 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Sherman <msherman95632(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
Well you guys made me do it. I have put off adding up my list of expenses to build
my 701 for a long time now. The wife is at work so I can bring in from the
shop, the 2" thick folder of invoices I have gathered up over the last six
years, and add them up.
I was shooting for something in the $35,000.00 range when I started this project.
This 701 is a pre-SP aircraft, so I have spent a fair amount of money to bring
it as close as I can to the new SP. Bought the parts from Zenith for about
$1,500.00 with shipping , this is included in the supplies cost.
This is certainly not a basic aircraft, if I wanted it, I bought it, but I shopped
for a good price. Had to replace a few parts I messed up, that is included
in the supplies cost.
My 701 is completed with just painting to go.
The kit was $13,135.00
The FWF $16,000.00 SkyShops 912ULS
The inst. panel $5,700.00 EIS/steam gages/ Valcom radio/GTX320A transponder/Intercom
Paint $900.00
Supplies $4,000.00 This includes all the electrical wires, fuel lines
( all hard plumbed with A&N fittings), cables/turnbuckles and lighting. Also
alodine, alumaprep and primer for all of the interior parts.
This brings me to about $39,735.00. Just for the airplane. I spent about $1,200.00
for tools related just to the airplane.
If you were to scratch build this same airplane I would guess you could save about
$6,000.00. Everything else I would still need to build this aircraft.
Mark Sherman
701/912ULS
Galt, CA
Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Zenith building expense |
All-
Yes, it is possible to build a Zenith for under $30K if you have a
basic panel and you never make a mistake.The last thing I wanted to do
was dissuade anyone from building, but I do want people to understand
that homebuilding isn't a walk in the park. I dare any builder to say
this is not good advice!
My main point was, build costs were not less than the cost of an
overhaul. When I was part owner of a C-172, we upgraded to an Air Plains
"Superhawk" conversion with a factory new O-360. $23K for everything.
'Nuff said.
Good building!
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Mikesell" <skyguynca(at)skyguynca.com> |
| Subject: | BRS YouTube video |
Hey, I lost that link to the video someone posted about the Trike taking
off as the BRS deployed, can someone please repost it for me.
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NYTerminat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: BRS YouTube video |
Since we are talking about chutes.
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1PX7G0u0yI_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1PX7G0u0yI)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Johnson" <david_a_g_johnson(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Everyone seems to be stressing the cost of building, what about the
benefits? (think positively folks!).
At the end of the project you have an aeroplane that must be worth
something, here in the UK kit-built aeroplanes sell for about the cost
of the kit. Also what is the value of what you have learned during the
build?
Dave Johnson
601XL from a CZAW kit
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 1:05 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith building expense
All-
Yes, it is possible to build a Zenith for under $30K if you have
a basic panel and you never make a mistake.The last thing I wanted to do
was dissuade anyone from building, but I do want people to understand
that homebuilding isn't a walk in the park. I dare any builder to say
this is not good advice!
My main point was, build costs were not less than the cost of an
overhaul. When I was part owner of a C-172, we upgraded to an Air Plains
"Superhawk" conversion with a factory new O-360. $23K for everything.
'Nuff said.
Good building!
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Laughlin <cookwithgas(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | Building as a way......+BRS + Cost, Update, etc... |
Hi guys:
Scott Laughlin here. I've been reading all the text about building, cost a
nd BRS from the digest version. I haven't posted anything to my website la
tely so first here's an update. The airplane is finished. I had the FAA c
ome out to take a look. It took them six weeks to get around to it even th
ough they are only 20 miles away. The guy made me re-do all of my electric
al wiring and safety wires so I've been working on that. With the airplane
being at the hangar I can't fiddle with it in the evenings anymore and tha
t is a real shame. I get about four hours each weekend to work on it. I'
m just about ready for another inspection and hopefully first flight.
Build-to-learn-to-fly: That is me. I took my first lesson in a pitiful Ch
erokee rental. The seat didn't adjust right and I was wondering the entire
flight what else didn't work. I can build something and maintain it well
and not "hope" someone else didn't neglect something in a rental that I'm t
rusting my life with. I started building soon after that first flight. I'
ve done most of my training in a Fight Design CT. An $80,000 toy-of-an-air
plane. I haven't finished all my training hours so I plan to finish them i
n my own airplane. First flight will be by an experienced pilot - a retire
d SR71 pilot that flies a lot and has test-flown many aircraft. He charges
$30 an hour for this service.
BRS: The first time I heard of a BRS it made sense to me. I started build
ing an airplane because the BRS was available. It is a no-brainer to me an
d I have one installed on my 601XL. I'm afraid of heights so it gives me g
reat piece of mind. Plus the rocket is very cool.
Cost: I have under $20K in my airplane and I have every receipt to prove i
t. Even the little bits and pieces. I'm a real scrounger though so don't
try this at home. It's like beer money when you spread it over 5 years (an
d don't drink). I haven't missed it and it hasn't put a strain on the fami
ly finances.
Plans-building: I
must make things. It is who I am. I have a deep desire to continually
create. This started when I was 2 years old. My mother has a picture of m
e in a diaper at 2-years-old with a screwdriver standing over a lawn mower.
I LOVE to build things and see how things work. If you are not insane li
ke this, then buy a kit or a pre-built airplane.
Scott Laughlin
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
Search "Experimental 601" on Youtube.com to see some of my latest videos.
_________________________________________________________________
News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!
http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way......+BRS + Cost, Update, etc... |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Scott,
I have followed your build with much interest. Thanks for sharing. I am wondering
about your comment that the FAA is making you re-do all of your electrical
wiring. I am just starting the wiring phase and that concerns me. What was
the major FAA gripe that we here can learn from?
Thanks and good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done, engine next.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136975#136975
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darryl West <rdwest(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | CH-601-HD Resale Value Question |
Hi Folks,
I am thinking about selling my Zenair CH-601-HD located at Springbank (near
Calgary, Alberta, Canada).
Built (by me) in 1995 from a kit, but only 340 hours of operating time so
far.
It has Rotax 912, basic VFR, well maintained, runs nice.
First 3 pictures here:
http://members.shaw.ca/rdwest/Pictures/Airplanes/airplanes.htm
I tried searching used airplane sites online (aerotrader, etc) but did not
find any of this design.
Any ideas on what typical pricing should be?
Thanks,
Darryl West
rdwest(at)shaw.ca
http://members.shaw.ca/rdwest/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Well Mate,building a airplane is a good thing ,but you must have a true
pict. of what it's going to cost. Cost is cost and all it ever does is
go up,.over here .then there is the human factor to want a better this
or that. I always wanted to build a" proper " aero plane, and to build a
proper one, I think it's better to have a better this or that than to
have a bad learning experinence on take-off or at 3ooo ft.
----- Original Message ----- Have a good day. N101HD 601 XL/RAM
From: Dave Johnson
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 3:27 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith building expense
Everyone seems to be stressing the cost of building, what about the
benefits? (think positively folks!).
At the end of the project you have an aeroplane that must be worth
something, here in the UK kit-built aeroplanes sell for about the cost
of the kit. Also what is the value of what you have learned during the
build?
Dave Johnson
601XL from a CZAW kit
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 1:05 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith building expense
All-
Yes, it is possible to build a Zenith for under $30K if you
have a basic panel and you never make a mistake.The last thing I wanted
to do was dissuade anyone from building, but I do want people to
understand that homebuilding isn't a walk in the park. I dare any
builder to say this is not good advice!
My main point was, build costs were not less than the cost of
an overhaul. When I was part owner of a C-172, we upgraded to an Air
Plains "Superhawk" conversion with a factory new O-360. $23K for
everything. 'Nuff said.
Good building!
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CH-601-HD Resale Value Question |
Go to" Barnstormers "you will see high prices on some,and some cheep
prices on others Zenith's It depends market,and the economy I wouldn't
sell any thing right now, unless you want to give it away ! Now is time
to buy,not sell. There are some good deal out there ( low prices)It's
better to buy rather than build right now,unless someone just want 's
to build. Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM
----- Original Message -----
From: Darryl West
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 9:31 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: CH-601-HD Resale Value Question
Hi Folks,
I am thinking about selling my Zenair CH-601-HD located at Springbank
(near Calgary, Alberta, Canada).
Built (by me) in 1995 from a kit, but only 340 hours of operating time
so far.
It has Rotax 912, basic VFR, well maintained, runs nice.
First 3 pictures here:
http://members.shaw.ca/rdwest/Pictures/Airplanes/airplanes.htm
I tried searching used airplane sites online (aerotrader, etc) but did
not find any of this design.
Any ideas on what typical pricing should be?
Thanks,
Darryl West
rdwest(at)shaw.ca
http://members.shaw.ca/rdwest/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CH-601-HD Resale Value Question |
Darryl,
Try using Barnstormers at:
http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?PHPSESSID=2ef94a86daa861b6da0186831
53522ef
this is the largest on line market place I know of. You can not only
get an idea what to ask for your aircraft but you can post an add and
it's all free of charge.
Bob (Tracy) Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Darryl West
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 8:31 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: CH-601-HD Resale Value Question
Hi Folks,
I am thinking about selling my Zenair CH-601-HD located at Springbank
(near Calgary, Alberta, Canada).
Built (by me) in 1995 from a kit, but only 340 hours of operating time
so far.
It has Rotax 912, basic VFR, well maintained, runs nice.
First 3 pictures here:
http://members.shaw.ca/rdwest/Pictures/Airplanes/airplanes.htm
I tried searching used airplane sites online (aerotrader, etc) but did
not find any of this design.
Any ideas on what typical pricing should be?
Thanks,
Darryl West
rdwest(at)shaw.ca
http://members.shaw.ca/rdwest/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: avex rivet question clarification |
To Whoever was Concerned About the Inside Dimension of an Avex Rivet,
The grip length is only important in that the 'nubbed' end needs to be
buried in enough material to never vibrate out.
No matter how long the pop rivet is, the inside dimension will always be the
same. The nub merely pulls through the rivet until it bottoms out and
breaks. If you use the right size, or too long, the dimension is still the
same. Obviously this is unlike a driven rivet that will flatten and spread
out.
You do not need to worry about the bottom end. As someone else pointed out,
you are making a major change to the head of the rivet, and you need to obey
ZAC's dimensions on modifying the head.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: avex rivet question clarification
In so far as the grip length of pop rivets has came up again I will add my
two cents. Check the way rivet grip length are given in all manuals. For a
button heador dome head rivet the grip length is from the BOTTOM of the
head. Now on a countersunk rivet the grip length is from the TOP of the
head. David and all others that I have seen on this site list Avex's grip
length for the countersunk rivets. Zenith has chose to take a countersunk
rivet and form the into a button head but does not change the grip lenth.
Has anyone who is in the know taken a countersunk rivet and installed it
through a max. grip material and checked the formed end? Will the rivet be
formed OK? Jerry of GA
Make AOL Your Homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | posting to threads |
| From: | "haven" <haven(at)cfl.rr.com> |
Why are there 6 threads with the name "Building as a way for a non-pilot to get
into aviation?". It is extremely hard to follow the thread with post all over
the place.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137031#137031
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob St Denis" <rob(at)iahu.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: will definitely need those back seats now |
So, we went and got the ultrasound today, and seems as tho we're having
twins!
http://gallery.iahu.ca/main.php/v/lisandrob/Babynumber1/ultrasound.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=3
I am so glad i went with the 640 now ha!
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
The engine is a corvair, still need pistons and cylinders and all the other HW.
Have the crank and the heads ready for flight with the WW gold hub and ring
gear.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137080#137080
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeyoung65(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: avex rivet question clarification |
In a message dated 9/28/2007 1:25:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
gboothe5(at)comcast.net writes:
To Whoever was Concerned About the Inside Dimension of an Avex Rivet,
The grip length is only important in that the 'nubbed' end needs to be
buried in enough material to never vibrate out.
I think this is the question, how do you inspect this requirement?
You do not need to worry about the bottom end. As someone else pointed out,
you are making a major change to the head of the rivet, and you need to obey
ZAC's dimensions on modifying the head.
No correction for this head change has been make with regard to the grip
length! What about the fact the ZAC and Avex give the same max. grip length even
though they reduced the grip length by the thickness of the rivet head?
No matter how long the pop rivet is, the inside dimension will always be the
same.
I understand the inside dimension does not change. The length of the rivet
also does not change so if you form the head down (Dome the head) the length
of the rivet grip length is reduced and Avex set the max. grip based on the
rivet being used as a countersunk rivet. Thus the "nubbed" end is not buried.
Take a .250 thickness section of material and install a 1/8 rivet. Look at the
"nubbed", think it
will not vibrate out?
You had an attached file on your e-mail that I could not open, what was it?
Jerry of GA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: avex rivet question clarification |
Jerry,
I did not attach anything. I merely hit "REPLY."
My opinion is that you are over thinking this. You seem to be concerned
about losing .025 from the change from a countersink to the modified head;
when the rivets are measured in fractions of an inch. Here is a quote from
Mr. Heintz:
".One other very determinant factor for selecting the Avex rivets is that
they are "grip" insensitive. The standard Avex rivets will join from grip 0
to grip 1/4" (6 mm) with the same rivet."
Why would you try to use an 1/8" rivet if you were concerned about its
length? Let common sense prevail.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: avex rivet question clarification
In a message dated 9/28/2007 1:25:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
gboothe5(at)comcast.net writes:
To Whoever was Concerned About the Inside Dimension of an Avex Rivet,
The grip length is only important in that the 'nubbed' end needs to be
buried in enough material to never vibrate out.
I think this is the question, how do you inspect this requirement?
You do not need to worry about the bottom end. As someone else pointed out,
you are making a major change to the head of the rivet, and you need to obey
ZAC's dimensions on modifying the head.
No correction for this head change has been make with regard to the grip
length! What about the fact the ZAC and Avex give the same max. grip length
even though they reduced the grip length by the thickness of the rivet head?
No matter how long the pop rivet is, the inside dimension will always be the
same.
I understand the inside dimension does not change. The length of the rivet
also does not change so if you form the head down (Dome the head) the length
of the rivet grip length is reduced and Avex set the max. grip based on the
rivet being used as a countersunk rivet. Thus the "nubbed" end is not
buried. Take a .250 thickness section of material and install a 1/8 rivet.
Look at the "nubbed", think it
will not vibrate out?
You had an attached file on your e-mail that I could not open, what was it?
Jerry of GA
_____
See what's new at Make AOL Your Homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: will definitely need those back seats now |
| From: | "hansriet" <hansinla(at)mac.com> |
Congrats.
Great names by the way; Baby A and baby B.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137099#137099
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clive Richards" <s.c.richards(at)homecall.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Matco`s Wheel Bearings |
As per previous report in archives Rays Matco Chinese wheel bearings
have also failed 1998/1999 Kit suggest if you have Matco wheels pre 2000
you check the wheels run smoothly & if not fit a reputable make of
bearing.
G CBDG CH601 HD Continental 0-200 170 Hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: will definitely need those back seats now |
| From: | "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net> |
Congratulations!
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137104#137104
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeyoung65(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: avex rivet question clarification |
Gary, Using the 1/8 rivet was just to get you to look as one. As you are
building an 601HDS your center section should be the same as my Dwg. 6-V3 dated
08/04. Look at your two rivets in the outer ribs where the drawing call for
A-5 rivets. Material thickness is: 6V5-1 (.025), "L" angle (.025), 6V4-1HD
(.040), 6V4-5 (.125), 6V4-6HD (.125) Total= .340. We I installed these
rivets I question the rivet so took a sample using these mat'l thickness to
the EAA meeting and two difference members said it was not good. Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: will definitely need those back seats now |
| From: | "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com> |
Congratulations. I have twin boys who are now 9 y/o who have seen a lot of this
country from the back seats of my 640 (OK maybe they haven't seen that much,
but it has taken them to a lot of nice places). You have a lot of great years
to look forward to. Congratulation's.
Steve Adams
CH640 N621J
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137119#137119
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/boys_341.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Great Flight over Killeen, TX |
Recently I saw Bob Stone's post about taking anyone for flight if they
interested in flying in a 601XL if they pay for fuel. I travel in Texas
a lot and most of my evenings are just plain boring so I jumped on the
chance to go flying. It was a beautiful afternoon, winds close to zero,
the only downside was the heat, it was very hot. Bob has a beautiful
601XL with a Jabiru and I was really impressed by the performance on
such a hot day, especially when you consider both of us are around 200
lbs. His plane handles very well and when Bob trimmed it up there was
none of the heavy wing effect I have read about. We flew for about an
hour and in my opinion, the 601 is a great little plane and it certainly
was an enjoyable afternoon for me. Bob is a very interesting fellow, he
is 78 years old, flies an airplane, rides motorcycles and enjoys a
post-flight conversation over a cold brew. I decided during our flight
that I will do the same thing for others when my plane is in the air, it
is a great way to meet people and make new friends. Thanks Bob!
Clyde Barcus
601 XL, Continental Powered
Wings, Tail & Engine Complete
Working on Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: will definitely need those back seats now |
| From: | "AB_Summit" <rengler(at)TELUS.NET> |
Congratulations!
I know how you feel, my wife and I have twins, a boy and a girl that turned two
in June. We found out in the same way you did, my wife went in for her 20 week
ultrasound and they told us we were having twins. My advice is to sleep lots
now, cause when they are born you won't be getting much sleep:)
Lots of luck,
Randy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137120#137120
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: avex rivet question clarification |
Jerry,
Point taken, however it looks as there are some differences in our plans.
For me, 6-V3 is a wing drawing. But I have supplementals for the HDS which
replace that A5 rivet with an AN3 bolt. On the center section, I also have a
supplemental as I am building a tail dragger. All nose ribs have a notch for
the spar cap and are not riveted at that location.
However, you did shine light on the fact that where the gear support crosses
the spar, there will definitely be a need for a longer rivet. 4 of these
will be needed by me, so I will merely buy some 'x-tra longs.'
Interesting that AC43.13 has no verbage concerning Avex rivets.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: avex rivet question clarification
Gary, Using the 1/8 rivet was just to get you to look as one. As you are
building an 601HDS your center section should be the same as my Dwg. 6-V3
dated 08/04. Look at your two rivets in the outer ribs where the drawing
call for A-5 rivets. Material thickness is: 6V5-1 (.025), "L" angle
(.025), 6V4-1HD (.040), 6V4-5 (.125), 6V4-6HD (.125) Total= .340. We I
installed these rivets I question the rivet so took a sample using these
mat'l thickness to the EAA meeting and two difference members said it was
not good. Jerry
_____
See what's new at Make AOL Your Homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Comparison |
> I put my Ellison on and everything changed.
Randy, do you have any pictures or details on how you adapted the Ellison to
connect to the Jabiru and airbox?
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Will there be a Zenith kit version of the Patriot? |
| From: | "zedvair" <mike.zedvair(at)gmail.com> |
I'm just starting to consider building. While I'd think I'd be happy with a 601xl,
the new Patriot high wing, with it's better STOL characteristics and similar
cross-country characteristics, intrigues me.
Is anyone aware of plans by Zenith to offer a kit version of the Patriot?
It seems like a good candidate for the corvair, since it was designed for the O-200.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137172#137172
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Stout" <n282rs(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Comparison |
Gee, if you could have asked that question yesterday. I just had the
cowl
off for the last week to paint it and last night it finally dried enough
I
could put it on. Give me a few days and I'll try to get you a couple of
pictures.
Randy Stout
San Antonio TX
www.geocities.com/ <http://www.geocities.com/n282rs> n282rs
n282rs at satx.rr.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 9:32 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Engine Comparison
> I put my Ellison on and everything changed.
Randy, do you have any pictures or details on how you adapted the
Ellison to
connect to the Jabiru and airbox?
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Comparison |
> Give me a few days and I'll try to get you a couple of pictures.
No rush, it will be a while before I can afford an Ellison. My first one
went with the Corvair.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: posting to threads |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> |
Not everyone uses the WWW version of the forum. In fact most don't. They majority
use the older mail list system.
They forum software then tries to place the messages both from the website and
the mail list into proper threading.
I'm actually surprised it works as well as it usually does.
haven wrote:
> Why are there 6 threads with the name "Building as a way for a non-pilot to get
into aviation?". It is extremely hard to follow the thread with post all over
the place.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137184#137184
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | 701 in New England? |
Not perfect but Brian Unruh is building a beautiful 701 on Long Island:
http://www.701builder.com/
Also the Frapper 701 map show some other builders in New England:
http://www.frappr.com/zenith701.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Laughlin <cookwithgas(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Building as a way......+BRS + Cost, Update, etc... |
Bill Naumuk:
The truck is mine and I must have a clean driveway because I didn't get a s
cratch on it. The ground at the hangar has a lot of pebbles and debris so
I did fill the hangar up with a run-up a few months ago and spent an hour s
weeping it out. I point the nose differently now. Concerning the street
taxi-test, I live in a pretty quiet place (except for me) so nobody really
noticed the few times I rambled down the street way back when and I only di
d it a few times but the video lives forever. If you click on "more for thi
s user" on Youtube you can see some taxis at the airport with the wings on.
Nobody complained about that either.
Dave Gallagher:
I left my camera in a rental car last week in Pittsburgh so I didn't get an
y pictures yesterday. I'll try to bring a backup camera today to the hanga
r and show you some examples of where I went wrong on my wiring and how I f
ixed it. Basically if you can wiggle your wires too much or if they can to
uch any metal, you need to secure them. There are several other examples l
ike tie-wrapping a metal cable to the engine mount, not securing spark plug
wires well, etc. I'll try to put a list of items on my website when I get
a minute.
I want to thank Dave Miller and Brad Saffron (fellow 601XL builders) for th
eir help yesterday. Dave has been a huge help to me in this finishing proc
ess so if you get a chance to talk to him, he can tell you as much about my
FAA inspection and how we solved the problems as I can. Dave was at the h
angar yesterday (and many other days) with me and worked as hard as I did o
n making corrections to my safety-wiring and wiring.
Go out there and build something today.
Scott Laughlin
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Building as a way......+BRS + Cost, Update, etc..
.
Scott-
You have the best neighbors in the world for a homebuilder. Always
wanted to know who the poor guy was who's truck was right in the prop
blast during your first engine run.
If it was yours, did you add in the cost of a new paint job for the
truck?
Bill Naumuk
_________________________________________________________________
Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Space
s. It's easy!
http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.
aspx&mkt=en-us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Will there be a Zenith kit version of the Patriot? |
Bob,
All the Zenith related businesses are confusing. Aircraft
Development and Manufacturing (AMD) is in Georgia and is run by Mathieu
Heintz. They manufacture and sell certified aircraft like the Alarus (ie
CH2000). They also sell the ready to fly Special LSA version of the 601 XL
and the Patriot. They also have a version called 601 Xli which is
instrument flight certified. AMD does not sell kits. 601kits are
manufactured and sold by Zenith Aircraft Company (ZAC) in Mexico Missouri.
Sebastien Heintz is President of ZAC. Nick Heintz is the production
manager. ZAC does not sell ready to fly airplanes. Others like CANZAC
(Mark Townsend), Flightcrafters, and Quality Sport Planes (Michael Heintz)
sell kits and quick build kits. There are several companies selling
different, but maybe overlapping, products in the Zenith world. Each has a
web site if you want further details. Skyshops and Chip Erwin evidently no
longer have business relationships with Zenith.
Jeff Davidson
You say in your message below that AMD does not build kit aircraft. I
think they build the ZodiacXL which is available as a kit so what is it a
factory certified aircraft because they build it?????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RClaggf4u(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Will there be a Zenith kit version of the Patriot? |
Hello all,
I just got back home from the Zenith open house where I saw the CH750 fly. I
flew with Micheal Heintz in the 701 and of course I asked about the 750. He
said it flew really well ( of course) but they still had some tweaking here
and there to do. When I asked about a time line he said it would be some time
before you see kits. Like he said, you just can't build it and start selling
kits. All the tooling has to be built, the drawings developed and proofed,
molds for fiberglass parts etc. have to be created. It does have a 0200 on
it.
Compared to the 701 what I noticed about it just by looking was is has a
wider cabin, the struts are larger and the panel forward is a little different.
The tail feathers and aft fuselage appear the same. When I drove up I thought
it was a 701 until I got closer. We'll just have to wait but it looked like
the answer to the 701 shortcomings, if there are any.
Wayne Clagg
Ch701 coming along
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ken smith <lrepilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | uncommanded flap deployment help needed |
Sometimes the flaps on my 601Xl deploy when they are
not supposed to. They always go to the full flap
position. This can occur when I hit the starter
switch, and also when I turn on the avionics once the
engine is running. I have the 4 inch unit bought from
the surplus center.
Anyone have any ideas for the fix?
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | uncommanded flap deployment help needed |
Are you using the matching three-button electronic controller also sold by
Surplus Center? It is probably picking up electrical noise. Use mechanical
switches instead wired like those for the Zenith factory actuator (page
6-B-20 in the plans). With the switch in the center (off) position there
will be no power applied to the motor so it can not move.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New 95hp engine design. |
| From: | "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net> |
At the time I write this ( or type if you prefer) 59 of you have down loaded the
file out of the 118 of you that have viewed it.
Any comments?
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137352#137352
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: uncommanded flap deployment help needed |
Hi Ken ,why don't you put in an extra toggle switch to kill the ground on
the flaps .This is a cure for run-a-way controls.
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: "ken smith" <lrepilot(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 8:23 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: uncommanded flap deployment help needed
>
> Sometimes the flaps on my 601Xl deploy when they are
> not supposed to. They always go to the full flap
> position. This can occur when I hit the starter
> switch, and also when I turn on the avionics once the
> engine is running. I have the 4 inch unit bought from
> the surplus center.
>
> Anyone have any ideas for the fix?
>
> Ken
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New 95hp engine design. |
| From: | "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz> |
not quite a new engine as its a development of the existing Jabiru which was unsuitable
in off the shelf form to power the proposed helicopters. The company
later reformed as ULpower and I'm impressed with their tecnical info on the website.
there was one sitting in the hangar next to me that hasnt been used yet
so unfortunately nothing to report.
http://home.comcast.net/~aeroengine/Masquito.html
Actually i'm rather interested in the sister engine, masschi 105 but its unlikely
to have got into production, from the small info i can find.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137362#137362
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New 95hp engine design. |
| From: | "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net> |
Interesting, the 105 IS pretty light, strange that the website states 80 hp max
and 80hp continuous. I'd like to see that power curve.
It is available to but on there website though $ 13,125.53 US.
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137383#137383
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Will there be a Zenith kit version of the Patriot? |
| From: | "zedvair" <mike.zedvair(at)gmail.com> |
Does the CH750 have leading edge slats? Or a Patriot like (conventional) airfoil?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137384#137384
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ROTAX 912 UL3 |
| From: | "txpilot" <djg7(at)comcast.net> |
Martyn,
The UL3 version simply means there is a propeller drive housing on the back of
the reduction gear box for a prop governor. Yes, you can run a fixed pitch prop
on this engine. Simply leave the reduction gear box fitting alone.
The only issue with the version 3 is that you cannot run a vacuum pump.
Dan Ginty
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137407#137407
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Derfler" <fderfler(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape |
My AMD-made 601 has four long strips of non-skid tape on the wing roots
right on the rivet lines. After slightly less than one year the tape is
shabby, The upwind edges are peeling and it has generally faded and lost
all of its grit. See my photo at http://mostlyflying.blogspot.com
So, HELP! Has anyone ever removed this kind of tape from a painted
surface? Will it take the World's supply of Goo-Gone? I'd rather just have
the white paint. SInce I either wear Crocs or boat shoes to fly, I don't
need non-skid. Any ideas on how to get rid of the tape and what to do
then? Who has done it?
--
Frank Derfler
-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or
(blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com
- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM
-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at
www.KEYSBOATER.com
-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> |
That's terrible. Especially since there is non-skid tape out there that lasts YEARS
AND YEARS.
I would consider replacing it though instead of just removing it. While you know
where to stand when you get in the tape shows passengers where to step.
fderfler(at)gmail.com wrote:
> My AMD-made 601 has four long strips of non-skid tape on the wing roots right on the rivet lines. After slightly less than one year the tape is shabby, The upwind edges are peeling and it has generally faded and lost all of its grit. See my photo at http://mostlyflying.blogspot.com (http://mostlyflying.blogspot.com)
>
> So, HELP! Has anyone ever removed this kind of tape from a painted surface?
Will it take the World's supply of Goo-Gone? I'd rather just have the white
paint. SInce I either wear Crocs or boat shoes to fly, I don't need non-skid.
Any ideas on how to get rid of the tape and what to do then? Who has done
it?
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137415#137415
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape |
Well, I know that when I removed the factory decals off of my truck, to
prepare for painting, I took a heat gun and heated it up and then the adhesive
softened up and I was able to peel it right off. Before I heated it up, there
is no way I was going to get it. Now, be careful, those heat guns get really
hot, so start out way above the strip and work your way down to find the
right distance. You do not want to burn your paint. Also, I did little
sections at a time instead of trying to do the whole piece at once. Once it was
removed, I used Goof Off to remove what little adhesive was left on the paint.
I do not see why this would not work on your plane as well. I can not say
for sure, since there is no paint on anything of mine yet?
Larry Husky
601XL/Corvair
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape |
Frank,
I'd advise you to try a steam iron and peel it very slowly at low tension.
I'd also recommend you use the Ray Allen company material to cover the
rivets and all.
Their product is not gritty is easy to install and not terribly costly.
The sheet is placed exactly to position, lifted one end and separated
from the peel strip
and laid down. The other end is then lifted and the peel strip is
removed and again the
piece is lowered to position. It can be pressed down tight over each rivet
using a common pin to release air and a AN5 nut to get contact all round
each rivet.
Goes down nice. I'm sure you'd like it much more than bare paint too.
My wing as done see link,
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/wingwalk2.gif
**www.rayallencompany.com/products/accessories.html.
WWK-1 ... WING WALK MATERIAL**
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Frank Derfler wrote:
> My AMD-made 601 has four long strips of non-skid tape on the wing
> roots right on the rivet lines. After slightly less than one year the
> tape is shabby, The upwind edges are peeling and it has generally
> faded and lost all of its grit. See my photo at
> http://mostlyflying.blogspot.com
>
> So, HELP! Has anyone ever removed this kind of tape from a painted
> surface? Will it take the World's supply of Goo-Gone? I'd rather
> just have the white paint. SInce I either wear Crocs or boat shoes to
> fly, I don't need non-skid. Any ideas on how to get rid of the tape
> and what to do then? Who has done it?
>
> --
> Frank Derfler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob St Denis" <rob(at)iahu.ca> |
http://chat.iahu.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape |
guys,
follow Larry's recommendation its a good one, and if you cant get the backing to
come off, do the best you can then tape it off and use truck bed liner spray
over the area. its thick enough to cover the residue of the tape and sturdy,
juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
>Sent: Oct 1, 2007 5:34 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape
>
>
>Frank,
>I'd advise you to try a steam iron and peel it very slowly at low tension.
>
>I'd also recommend you use the Ray Allen company material to cover the
>rivets and all.
>Their product is not gritty is easy to install and not terribly costly.
>
>The sheet is placed exactly to position, lifted one end and separated
>from the peel strip
>and laid down. The other end is then lifted and the peel strip is
>removed and again the
>piece is lowered to position. It can be pressed down tight over each rivet
>using a common pin to release air and a AN5 nut to get contact all round
>each rivet.
>
>Goes down nice. I'm sure you'd like it much more than bare paint too.
>
>My wing as done see link,
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/wingwalk2.gif
>
>**www.rayallencompany.com/products/accessories.html.
>WWK-1 ... WING WALK MATERIAL**
>
>Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
>Frank Derfler wrote:
>> My AMD-made 601 has four long strips of non-skid tape on the wing
>> roots right on the rivet lines. After slightly less than one year the
>> tape is shabby, The upwind edges are peeling and it has generally
>> faded and lost all of its grit. See my photo at
>> http://mostlyflying.blogspot.com
>>
>> So, HELP! Has anyone ever removed this kind of tape from a painted
>> surface? Will it take the World's supply of Goo-Gone? I'd rather
>> just have the white paint. SInce I either wear Crocs or boat shoes to
>> fly, I don't need non-skid. Any ideas on how to get rid of the tape
>> and what to do then? Who has done it?
>>
>> --
>> Frank Derfler
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)primus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape |
I've wondered if putting the wing walk tape or spray or paint on the port
wing is why there are complaints of "left wing heavy". Must play havoc with
the air flow.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 701 in New England? |
| From: | "billmileski" <mileski(at)sonalysts.com> |
Hi Dave,
I have a 701 with 912S and have been trying to find the time to sneak away to NH
for a weekend. I have a flight plan to Franconia ready, but time has been an
issue for me. If I can make it happen I'll drop you an email, and certainly
if you find yourself anywhere near the Groton, CT area, let me know.
Bill Mileski (william(dot)mileski(at)gmail.com)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137547#137547
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape |
Dave,And everyone else out there ,How common is "heavy port wing"? I have
that problem ,and it need's to be addressed, on my thing's to fix or
adjust.All input is welcomed..
----- Original Message ----- Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM
From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)primus.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape
>
> I've wondered if putting the wing walk tape or spray or paint on the port
> wing is why there are complaints of "left wing heavy". Must play havoc
> with the air flow.
> Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing Skin to Fuselage Gap Question |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
I am working my 601XL wing installation to the fuselage. So far I have trimmed
the wing skin back far enough to get the wing bolts in. What have you guys found
to be the optimal gap for the kit provided seal? The drawings do not mention
anything and I could not find anything in the archives.
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done, engine next.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137577#137577
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John M. Goodings" <goodings(at)yorku.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Non-Skid Tape, Heavy Left Wing, etc. |
We first flew our CH601HD with bare metal for a few months in 2003. Then
it was (professionally) painted, and large pieces of non-skid material
were applied to each wing root. They have not deteriorated at all in 4
years, but the aircraft is hangared. There was no change to the cruise or
climb speeds. We fixed our slight heavy wing problem very easily. We
added a fixed (but ground-adjustable) trim tab to the right aileron; it
was about 10 inches by 2 inches, bent down slightly about 20 degrees.
Since then, the aircraft flies hands off. It is NOT necessary to change
the trim tab with 1 or 2 people in the aircraft; it has remained the same
since we first installed it.
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa Carp/Toronto.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)primus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Non-Skid Tape, Heavy Left Wing, etc. |
John,
any change to the stall speed?
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Johnson" <david_a_g_johnson(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator bias spring |
I think this is a query for anyone building in the UK, as it concerns a
PFA mandatory mod.
The PFA insist that we install a link between the Flap torque tube an
the elevator horn to apply a pitch bias when the flaps are lowered.
I have the drawing for it, but don't have the facilities, (or the skill)
to do the machining and welding needed. (the welding presumably has to
be done by a CAA-approved welder).
How have other builders dealt with this? CZAW don't want to know and
Zenith don't reply to e-mails. Since it seems to be a UK-specific mod, I
guess they wouldn't be able to help anyway.
Any advice welcome!
Dave Johnson
601XL 90% done, 90% to go
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
| Subject: | Elevator bias spring |
Dave, call Zenith and ask for the Phone # to Zenair Europe. Nick Heintz
is over there now to help you folks out. Zenith can=92t help because it
was a European modification that they were not involved with. It was
developed by Chris Heintz and the European dealer, of which Nick Heintz
is now in charge.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
HYPERLINK
"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 11:13 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Elevator bias spring
I think this is a query for anyone building in the UK, as it concerns a
PFA mandatory mod.
The PFA insist that we install a link between the Flap torque tube an
the elevator horn to apply a pitch bias when the flaps are lowered.
I have the drawing for it, but don't have the facilities, (or the skill)
to do the machining and welding needed. (the welding presumably has to
be done by a CAA-approved welder).
How have other builders dealt with this? CZAW don't want to know and
Zenith don't reply to e-mails. Since it seems to be a UK-specific mod, I
guess they wouldn't be able to help anyway.
Any advice welcome!
Dave Johnson
601XL 90% done, 90% to go
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Zenith-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Skin to Fuselage Gap Question |
| From: | "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net> |
The drawings give the measurements for marking and cutting the wing skins at their
inboard edges. I'm not that far along but is there a reason you chose not
to use those measurements?
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137621#137621
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Skin to Fuselage Gap Question |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Rick,
Thanks for the 1/4" suggestion. I am about there now so I will hold tight until
I get ready to install them for real.
Tim,
I originally cut my skins to 10mm longer than the numbers given on drawing 6-W-9.
In trimming bit-by-bit during my trial fitting, I have probably taken at least
15mm off putting me 5mm on the other side now. Drawing 6-S-3 shows the fit
of the rubber seal, but it's just kind of floating out there with no suggested
gap.
Thanks guys,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done, engine next.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137640#137640
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure |
| From: | "Edward Micallef" <edmica2(at)yahoo.com> |
[Rolling Eyes] I am a new owner of a Zodiac 601 HDS The A/C has a TTEA of 150 Hrs..
The engine is a Rotax 912 UL # 4401716..I am used to Lyconing engines but
Rotax is new to me. Lately I have noticed that the oil pressure is higher than
what is specified in the manual. It is supposed to be 22-72 psi , when I am
turning about 5000 rpm it fluctuate over 80psi. I can't find any thing about
it in the trouble shooting about high oil pressure..Is there any body out there
that had a similar problem? Any help will be greatly appreciated...Ed
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137669#137669
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on canopy hoops? |
Has anybody tried using rivnuts to hold the canopy to the hoops instead of
the self-tapping screws? I've got a few stripped holes and wonder if rivnuts
could be used for repair or in the original build. One problem I see is that
the shoulder of the rivnut could be a stress point. The self-tapping screws
hold the canopy against the smooth hoop.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on canopy hoops? |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> |
I think your concern is correct. I'd try a larger screw first.
craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
> Has anybody tried using rivnuts to hold the canopy to the hoops instead of
> the self-tapping screws? I've got a few stripped holes and wonder if rivnuts
> could be used for repair or in the original build. One problem I see is that
> the shoulder of the rivnut could be a stress point. The self-tapping screws
> hold the canopy against the smooth hoop.
>
> -- Craig
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137673#137673
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> |
Don't discount the sensor being wrong.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137677#137677
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeyoung65(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure |
Not sure where the pressure transmitter is located in your engine system
but you may have a clogged oil filter. Jerry of Ga
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | victor verdev <vjvus(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on canopy hoops? |
Craig, At Oshkosh this year I noticed the factory
assembled 601XL in the Sports Planes area had soft
aluminum pop rivets holding the canopy to the tubes
and the side frames. I talked to the factory guy who
said they were having no problems using the soft rivet
with aluminum body and mandrel.
--- Craig Payne wrote:
>
>
> Has anybody tried using rivnuts to hold the canopy
> to the hoops instead of
> the self-tapping screws? I've got a few stripped
> holes and wonder if rivnuts
> could be used for repair or in the original build.
> One problem I see is that
> the shoulder of the rivnut could be a stress point.
> The self-tapping screws
> hold the canopy against the smooth hoop.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
>
>
>
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dredmoody(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on canopy hoops? |
It would be more simple safe and easy to drill all the way through the tube and
engage a K1000-6 nutplate. It would be a lot less esthetic but the ugly nutplates
could be camouflaged by dressing up the tube with a split rubber hose to
cover it from underneath. A big advantage of a nutplate is its locknut action
allowing you to have it hold tight without tightening the screw hard against the
plexiglass.
Dred
---- Craig Payne wrote:
>
> Has anybody tried using rivnuts to hold the canopy to the hoops instead of
> the self-tapping screws? I've got a few stripped holes and wonder if rivnuts
> could be used for repair or in the original build. One problem I see is that
> the shoulder of the rivnut could be a stress point. The self-tapping screws
> hold the canopy against the smooth hoop.
>
> -- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ken smith <lrepilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on canopy |
hoops?
I tapped the holes and used 6-32 button head cap
screws with a clear plastic washer under the head
--- Gig Giacona wrote:
>
>
> I think your concern is correct. I'd try a larger
> screw first.
>
>
> craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
> > Has anybody tried using rivnuts to hold the canopy
> to the hoops instead of
> > the self-tapping screws? I've got a few stripped
> holes and wonder if rivnuts
> > could be used for repair or in the original build.
> One problem I see is that
> > the shoulder of the rivnut could be a stress
> point. The self-tapping screws
> > hold the canopy against the smooth hoop.
> >
> > -- Craig
>
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137673#137673
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
that gives answers, not web links.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <Craig.Spainhower(at)exeloncorp.com> |
Check out this resource from Van's; vansaircraft.com/pdf/Wing_Heavy.pdf
Craig S.
N601XS, 601xl lyc 0-235, wiring in progress
Dave,And everyone else out there ,How common is "heavy port wing"? I have
that problem ,and it need's to be addressed, on my thing's to fix or
adjust.All input is welcomed.
-----------------------------------------
**************************************************
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Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged,
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Fosse" <jfosse1(at)shawneelink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: Will there be a Zenith kit version of the Patriot? |
I was at Mexico last month and took a look at the CH 750 and it does have
slats. The biggest difference I noted was the baggage compartment with
windows, the heavier gear (much wider), different brakes, narrow tires
(possibly just for flight testing) and the O200 Continental. Other than
that I could hardly tell the difference.
BTW, I had the good fortune of attending the "Gathering of Mustangs" last
Saturday. There were 109 of them. What a hoot!!!
Jim Fosse
701 N329F (Down for annual)
Goreville, Il
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on canopy hoops? |
> It would be more simple safe and easy to drill all the way through the
tube and engage a K1000-6 nutplate.
I wonder if the extra holes would appreciable weaken the tube more than just
the single row of outside holes? But then again the riveted nutplate would
strengthen the hoop.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on canopy |
hoops?
Then use "Well-nuts=AE" they work like a Rivnut but are rubber and shock ab
sorbing.=0A =0ADave Downey=0AHarleysville (SE) PA=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A
=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.n
et>=0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, October 2, 2007 4:14:5
4 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Re: Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on
giacona(at)suddenlink.net>=0A=0AI think your concern is correct. I'd try a lar
ger screw first.=0A=0A=0Acraig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:=0A> Has anybody t
ried using rivnuts to hold the canopy to the hoops instead of=0A> the self-
tapping screws? I've got a few stripped holes and wonder if rivnuts=0A> cou
ld be used for repair or in the original build. One problem I see is that
=0A> the shoulder of the rivnut could be a stress point. The self-tapping s
crews=0A> hold the canopy against the smooth hoop.=0A> =0A> -- Craig=0A=0A
=0A--------=0AW.R. "Gig" Giacona=0A601XL Under Construction=0ASee
my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic onl
ine here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137673#137673
========0A=0A=0A =0A___________________________________
_________________________________________________=0AGot a little couch pota
search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Non-Skid Tape, Heavy Left Wing, etc. |
Thanks John, Sounds good .Where did you locate it on theaileron. ? and if
you put a tab on the rt. side at 20o down why couldn't you also put a tab on
the left aileron at 20o up ? , wouldn't that balance or split the load
between the two ailerons? Also what do think the bottom line cause is for
the heavy left wing is? It seems to be a common thing,and why to the left?
do you think that wing walk material can really cause that effect or any
thing like low wing, left or right... Thanks Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM
----- Original Message -----
From: "John M. Goodings" <goodings(at)yorku.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:29 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non-Skid Tape, Heavy Left Wing, etc.
>
> We first flew our CH601HD with bare metal for a few months in 2003. Then
> it was (professionally) painted, and large pieces of non-skid material
> were applied to each wing root. They have not deteriorated at all in 4
> years, but the aircraft is hangared. There was no change to the cruise or
> climb speeds. We fixed our slight heavy wing problem very easily. We
> added a fixed (but ground-adjustable) trim tab to the right aileron; it
> was about 10 inches by 2 inches, bent down slightly about 20 degrees.
> Since then, the aircraft flies hands off. It is NOT necessary to change
> the trim tab with 1 or 2 people in the aircraft; it has remained the same
> since we first installed it.
>
> John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa Carp/Toronto.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure |
HI Ed, welcome to the list, a couple of suggestions
have been made about a faulty pressure transmitter.
That is a good thing to think about but it might also
be temperature related.
I'm not flying my 912UL yet but one thing I have heard
about these beasts is that they have quite a bit of
oil cooling capacity. Is it possible you are running
the oil temp too low and causing your pressure to be
on the high side?
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch builder
NW Ontario, Canada
--- Edward Micallef wrote:
>
>
> [Rolling Eyes] I am a new owner of a Zodiac 601 HDS
> The A/C has a TTEA of 150 Hrs.. The engine is a
> Rotax 912 UL # 4401716..I am used to Lyconing
> engines but Rotax is new to me. Lately I have
> noticed that the oil pressure is higher than what is
> specified in the manual. It is supposed to be
> 22-72 psi , when I am turning about 5000 rpm it
> fluctuate over 80psi. I can't find any thing about
> it in the trouble shooting about high oil
> pressure..Is there any body out there that had a
> similar problem? Any help will be greatly
> appreciated...Ed
>
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? |
| From: | "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> |
Are the trailing edges of the Aileron and the Flap aligned with one another when
both are in the "neutral" position...?
I'm getting ready to drill the hingeless ailerons on my 601XL, and I've also got
my flaps sitting there next to them, just to give it an "eyeball" check.
The measurements seem to check, but it just doesn't look right....
Anybody with a completed wing that can give me a sanity check on the measurement
between the trailing edge rivet line on the wing and the leading edge rivet
line on the aileron?
Is your entire trailing edge "one smooth line" across the ailerons and flaps...?
Thanks!
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137730#137730
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure |
| From: | "sonar1(at)cox.net" <sonar1(at)cox.net> |
Hi Ed:
One thing you might check :
I had what I considered to be low oil pressure, so I added two washer-like shims
under the oil pressure spring in the oil pump housing. Now, I have WAY enough
oil pressure. Perhaps the previous owner did that too???........Fred 701 912UL
flying Building 601XL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137734#137734
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob" <rfg842(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Hanger land lease |
For those of you who asked, I was only able to get two land lease quotes.
The Wichita Municipal airport is quoting .21 cents per square foot per mo
nth
A small public airport in the area is quoting .06 cents per square foot
per month. Add the cost of a hanger, from fifteen to some thirty thousan
d
and it becomes a substantial expense.
With the thousands of builders completing their projects, housing them at
an
airport becomes more of a problem every day.
Bob, Wichita
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jaybannist(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? |
Mine did not line up, not by a long shot. It was so far off (probably 20mm) the
hingeless attachment was not possible. I got ZAC to send me wide hinges and
and a doubler, and converted to hinged ailerons.
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
"PatrickW" wrote:
>
>Are the trailing edges of the Aileron and the Flap aligned with one another when
both are in the "neutral" position...?
>
>I'm getting ready to drill the hingeless ailerons on my 601XL, and I've also got
my flaps sitting there next to them, just to give it an "eyeball" check.
>
>The measurements seem to check, but it just doesn't look right....
>
>Anybody with a completed wing that can give me a sanity check on the measurement
between the trailing edge rivet line on the wing and the leading edge rivet
line on the aileron?
>
>Is your entire trailing edge "one smooth line" across the ailerons and flaps...?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Patrick
>XL/Corvair
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137730#137730
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on canopy |
hoops?
=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on
canopy hoops?=0A=0A=0A=0AThen use "Well-nuts=AE" they work like a Rivnut bu
t are rubber and shock absorbing.=0A =0A=0A=0ADave Downey=0A=0AHarleysville
(SE) PA=0A=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----
=0AFrom: Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronic
s.com=0ASent: Tuesday, October 2, 2007 4:14:54 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: R
e: Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on canopy hoops?=0A=0A=0A--> Zeni
th-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" =0A=0AI
think your concern is correct. I'd try a larger screw first.=0A=0A=0Acraig
(at)craigandjean.com wrote:=0A> Has anybody tried using rivnuts to hold the
canopy to the hoops instead of=0A> the self-tapping screws? I've got a few
stripped holes and wonder if rivnuts=0A> could be used for repair or in th
e original build. One problem I see is that=0A> the shoulder of the rivnut
could be a stress point. The self-tapping screws=0A> hold the canopy agains
t the smooth hoop.=0A> =0A> -- Craig=0A=0A=0A--------=0AW.R. "Gig"
; Giacona=0A601XL Under Construction=0ASee my progress at www.peoamerica.ne
t/N601WR=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matr
onics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137673#13767= - The Zenithw.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Zenith-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics
&nb/forums.matronics.com/"=0A====0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A Tonight'
=================0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A____________________________________________________________________
________________=0ABe a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers
hoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Thompson" <dave.thompson(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape |
Juan said:
"do the best you can then tape it off and use truck bed liner spray over the
area."
Years ago I had an all aluminum fishing boat (19ft). It had traction strip
tape all over the deck when I got it. Most of it was pealing just like your
picture. I used my thermal shrink hot air gun (for shrinking tubing around
wires and covering model airplanes) and slowly heated up the tape and it
pulled off very easily. I had no paint but agree that too much heat might
burn the paint. Take your time and be careful.
After the tape was removed, I masked it off and used truck bed liner paint.
I found that masking tape didn't pull off very well after the liner paint.
The paint was too thick and the masking tape just tore up. I had to use a
razor blade to cut the edge of the paint at the tape. I tried duct tape and
it worked wonders. It was strong enough to "cut" the paint at the masking
edge. Get a new roll with clean edges and be sure to seal them well as with
all other masking. The stuff lasted well with a great deal of abuse until I
sold the boat 4 to 5 years later.
Good luck,
Dave Thompson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
I made mine like the top view on 6-W-00 considering all other views show the flap
and aileron in the neutral position it seemed like the logical choice.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137752#137752
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure |
| From: | "Edward Micallef" <edmica2(at)yahoo.com> |
[quote="Jeyoung65(at)aol.com"]Not sure where the pressure transmitter is located
in your engine system but you may have a clogged oil filter. Jerry of Ga
Thanks Jerry, I will check the oil filter although it has only 10 hrs since it
was changed...Regards Ed
See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
> [b]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137780#137780
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure |
| From: | "Edward Micallef" <edmica2(at)yahoo.com> |
dougsnash(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> HI Ed, welcome to the list, a couple of suggestions
> have been made about a faulty pressure transmitter.
> That is a good thing to think about but it might also
> be temperature related.
>
> I'm not flying my 912UL yet but one thing I have heard
> about these beasts is that they have quite a bit of
> oil cooling capacity. Is it possible you are running
> the oil temp too low and causing your pressure to be
> on the high side?
>
> Doug MacDonald
> CH-701 Scratch builder
> NW Ontario, Canada
>
>
> --- Edward Micallef wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > [Rolling Eyes] I am a new owner of a Zodiac 601 HDS
> > The A/C has a TTEA of 150 Hrs.. The engine is a
> > Rotax 912 UL # 4401716..I am used to Lyconing
> > engines but Rotax is new to me. Lately I have
> > noticed that the oil pressure is higher than what is
> > specified in the manual. It is supposed to be
> > 22-72 psi , when I am turning about 5000 rpm it
> > fluctuate over 80psi. I can't find any thing about
> > it in the trouble shooting about high oil
> > pressure..Is there any body out there that had a
> > similar problem? Any help will be greatly
> > appreciated...Ed
> >
> > Thank you Doug, I will check the oil temp and make a note where it it is when
the oil pressure is high....Ed
> >
>
>
>
>
> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
> http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137781#137781
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GLENN JOHNSON <gljno10(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Skin to Fuselage Gap Question |
JUST A NOTE ON WHAT HAPPEN TO ME. I FOLLOWED THE MEASUREMENTS AND I BELIEV
E THAT I HAVE TOO MUCH TRIMMED BACK. I AM GETTING READY TO FIT THE WINGS S
O I WILL FIND OUT SOON ENOUGH.
GLENN> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wing Skin to Fuselage Gap Question> From:
juhl(at)avci.net> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:06:32 -0700> To: zenith-list@matron
The drawings give the measurements for marking and cutting the wing skins
at their inboard edges. I'm not that far along but is there a reason you ch
ose not to use those measurements?> > Tim> > --------> ______________> CFII
> Champ L16A flying> Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A> Working on wings> > > > > Re
ad this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p
======================> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts!- Play Star Shuffle:- the word scramble
challenge with star power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oc
t
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape |
| From: | "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> |
Heat gun sounds good. If you have to scrape, use a plastic scraper, maybe a windshield
ice scraper. You may be able to soak it with acetone under the edges too.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137830#137830
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
| From: | "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> |
Building from scratch is pretty cheap. Figure $5,000 in materials, maybe a little
more. Corvair with conversion, another $2,000. Basic instruments, $2,500 -
$3,000. If it takes you 4 years that's $2,500/yr, or about $200/month.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137835#137835
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on canopy hoops? |
Actually I used countersunk alum pops (and countersunk the canopy) as
there was an epoxy /glass canopy skirt that went on top of the rivets
and I didn't want any bumps, those kind of things hold little
importance now while building the 701, the whole thing is a bump.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: victor verdev
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on
canopy hoops?
No washers under rivet heads.
--- John Bolding wrote:
> Did that on my RV3 about 35 yrs/2000 hrs ago, no
> cracks so far but testing continues.
>
> LOW&SLO John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
| From: | "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com> |
Get real! If you want to build a real plane, that is not really
"experimental", then you're talking Lycoming, Continental,
Rotax, Jabiru, etc. You're also going to spend money on other stuff.
If you scrounge, and convert a car engine, etc. you can be one of the
miracle builders. But for the average guy, it's not gonna happen. PLus
it shouldn't. Do your families a favor, and don't hobby yourself into
becoming a statistic. Flying is dangerous enough.
Mid-Thirties is the bottom end - Realistically.
Yes, I've seen stuff that looks like it was powered by Briggs and Stratton
with a carved 2x4 for a prop, I've also had the pleasure of watching
a hangar neighbor continuously wrenching on his NSI turbo Subaru,
which he enjoyed immensely since he was a tinkerer. Yep 12 hours of
wrenching for every hour of flight, not to mention the occasional dead
stick landing ....
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137844#137844
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure |
| From: | macleod(at)eagle.ca |
Edward:
I had a similar problem with my 912S a few years ago. At first the
pressure would jump from 50 psi to 90 psi stay there for a few seconds
then drop back to 50. A few hours later it would go to 90psi and stay
there. The problem turned out to be a loose connection on the sender.
NOTE: when I first checked the sender connections they seemed ok, later
after I disconnected the sender and did a good reconnection the problem
went away.
Mike
601XL waiting for Rotax FWF
>The engine is a Rotax 912 UL # 4401716... Lately I have noticed that the oil
> pressure is higher than what is specified in the manual. It is supposed
> to be 22-72 psi , when I am turning about 5000 rpm it fluctuate over
> 80psi.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Skin to Fuselage Gap Question |
| From: | "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net> |
Very interesting! Dave and Glenn, I for one would like to know what you end up
with once the wings are installed. For now I think I'll mark the factory cut
lines but leave a little extra.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137853#137853
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Afterfxllc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
I think his #'s are way off if you are wanting to scratch build a nice safe
aircraft.... The spread sheet attached is real world #'s with the part numbers
of a plane I did a builder assist on. It has aluminum brake and fuel lines
and the spread sheet includes all the fittings for them also. It doesn't
include the aluminum for scratch building as I used a kit. But I have been kicking
around the idea of scratch building one and the best I can figure it will
cost around 25,000.
In a message dated 10/3/2007 10:41:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ashontz(at)nbme.org writes:
Building from scratch is pretty cheap. Figure $5,000 in materials, maybe a
little more. Corvair with conversion, another $2,000. Basic instruments,
$2,500 - $3,000. If it takes you 4 years that's $2,500/yr, or about $200/month.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Skin to Fuselage Gap Question |
| From: | "swater6" <waters.scott(at)comcast.net> |
Hi guys,
I had to order a new top skin from Zenith because I put a wrinkle in one of mine
while moving to a new house. The skins they supply now are precut both inboard
and outboard and they matched the skin I had cut based on the plans measurements.
So, I'm thinking that the measurements are good and they are confident
in them since they are now precut. I am leaving the bottom skins cut a little
larger until I mate to the fuselage just in case. As you know, you can always
cut more or drill bigger but not the other way around...
Scott
PS. As of a week ago, both of my wings are now complete and setting in my rack.
First holes drilled in the fuselage last weekend!!! Kind of a nice milestone!!
--------
601 XL kit
Tail, control surfaces and 1 wing complete
www.scottwaters.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137863#137863
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | japhillipsga(at)aol.com |
I went flying the Monday morning.?Cooler and clear. On climb out the CHT for number
4 head went up to about 330 degrees as is it's norm. I climbed up to 3500
feet and trimed up for max cruise. The Jab 3300 was percing along just fine and
it is normal as well that after a brief period the CHTs all drop into the 270-290
degree range. That day number 4 head only reduced down to about 320 and
held there. I kept peeking over at the gage and waiting for it to drop. After
about three times as long as it should have taken to drop I reached over and
tapped the gage and it immediately dropped to 285 degrees. Now I know why I received
that covetous Repairman's Certificate !! I am a certified Aircraft Instrument
Expert !? So my tip is always tap your gage when the output isn't what
it should be. Like banging on the TV for better reception. Best regards, Bill
of Georgia 601XL-3300 120 hrs?
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Juhl <juhl(at)avci.net>
Sent: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:46 am
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wing Skin to Fuselage Gap Question
Very interesting! Dave and Glenn, I for one would like to know what you end up
with once the wings are installed. For now I think I'll mark the factory cut
lines but leave a little extra.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137853#137853
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
This topic is baaack!
Sorry list, but some of us including myself just can get enough of this topic.
So here I go.
Jeff, no matter how much someone scrounge, We all agree that putting a Lyco, Continental,
Jabiru or Rotax and spend less than 30K is close to impossible, even
for non average builder. The < 30K crowd are those who are going for auto conversions,
specially the Corvair.
However, if you consider an auto conversion to be risky, unsafe, only reserved
for miracle builders or not having a real airplane, then that's another big topic
where you will find a lot of experienced builders disagreeing.
Some builders consider an auto conversion a bad way to loose one's marbles, in
the same way some pilots consider flying a homebuilt plane a bad way to loose
one's marbles. I knew one pilot with over 2,000 flight hours who is instrument,
multi engine certified and Mensa member, who consider flying a homebuilt plane
a crazy idea. When I told him that some builders have flown the Zodiac with
Harley Davidson engine he rolled up his eyes so much that he saw his brain.
Andy, 2,000 for a converted Corvair is way low.
Now, I'll just run for cover.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
Get real! If you want to build a real plane, that is not really
"experimental", then you're talking Lycoming, Continental,
Rotax, Jabiru, etc. You're also going to spend money on other stuff.
If you scrounge, and convert a car engine, etc. you can be one of the
miracle builders. But for the average guy, it's not gonna happen. PLus
it shouldn't. Do your families a favor, and don't hobby yourself into
becoming a statistic. Flying is dangerous enough.
Mid-Thirties is the bottom end - Realistically.
Yes, I've seen stuff that looks like it was powered by Briggs and Stratton
with a carved 2x4 for a prop, I've also had the pleasure of watching
a hangar neighbor continuously wrenching on his NSI turbo Subaru,
which he enjoyed immensely since he was a tinkerer. Yep 12 hours of
wrenching for every hour of flight, not to mention the occasional dead
stick landing ....
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137844#137844
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
To give you a lower bound here is Bill Clapp's Corvair-powered KR2S built
(with engine) for $7200:
http://www.krnet.org/krs/wc/
Now somebody will say "but it's composite".
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
| From: | "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> |
No, those numbers are not way off. They're right on the money. I have spent $1,200
- $1,300 to build a rudder, the elevator, the stabilizer, and the left wing
not including the ailerons including rivets from Zenith. Nothing unsafe about
it. The parts are to spec per the plans. Just off the top of my head, I'd say
I've used about 7 sheets of 4 x 12 6061-T6 in various thinknesses. A sheet
from Aircraft spruce is about $90. So right there we're looking at about $650
for 85% of the materials required for those parts. Add in $350 for my 8' bending
brake and we're up to $1,600 - $1,700.
Now if you consider those parts are identical to what would be shipped from Zenith,
then that 'safety issue' is irrelavent. The next safety issue is the assembly
process, in which case there is no difference between a scratch builder and
a kit builder. Actually, if anything, the scratch builder may be a safer builder
due to the skill set developed to actually make the parts to spec, giving
the scratch builder an even better overall metalurgical best-practices understanding
of the building process.
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
> I think his #'s are way off if you are wanting to scratch build a nice safe
aircraft.... The spread sheet attached is real world #'s with the part numbers
of a plane I did a builder assist on. It has aluminum brake and fuel lines and
the spread sheet includes all the fittings for them also. It doesn't include
the aluminum for scratch building as I used a kit. But I have been kicking
around the idea of scratch building one and the best I can figure it will cost
around 25,000.
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/3/2007 10:41:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ashontz(at)nbme.org
writes:
>
> > Building from scratch is pretty cheap. Figure $5,000 in materials, maybe
a little more. Corvair with conversion, another $2,000. Basic instruments,
$2,500 - $3,000. If it takes you 4 years that's $2,500/yr, or about $200/month.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137875#137875
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
| From: | "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> |
Sweet!!! Love it! Thanks for the link.
[quote="craig(at)craigandjean.com"]To give you a lower bound here is Bill Clapp's
Corvair-powered KR2S built (with engine) for $7200:
http://www.krnet.org/krs/wc/ (http://www.krnet.org/krs/wc/)
Now somebody will say "but it's composite".
-- Craig
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137877#137877
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
| From: | "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> |
I've rebuilt a lot of engines in my day. I don't think it'll be much more than
that. Maybe $3,000. I'm certainly not going to skimp on safety. If I can rebuild
a 4 cylinder outboard engine or a car engine for $500, I can't imagine a Corvair
being that much more, they're just parts and they're readily available.
About the only difference is some of the specialty items on it.
[quote="bill_dom(at)yahoo.com"]This topic is baaack!
Sorry list, but some of us including myself just can get enough of this topic.
So here I go.
Jeff, no matter how much someone scrounge, We all agree that putting a Lyco, Continental,
Jabiru or Rotax and spend less than 30K is close to impossible, even
for non average builder. The < 30K crowd are those who are going for auto conversions,
specially the Corvair.
However, if you consider an auto conversion to be risky, unsafe, only reserved
for miracle builders or not having a real airplane, then that's another big topic
where you will find a lot of experienced builders disagreeing.
Some builders consider an auto conversion a bad way to loose one's marbles, in
the same way some pilots consider flying a homebuilt plane a bad way to loose
one's marbles. I knew one pilot with over 2,000 flight hours who is instrument,
multi engine certified and Mensa member, who consider flying a homebuilt plane
a crazy idea. When I told him that some builders have flown the Zodiac with
Harley Davidson engine he rolled up his eyes so much that he saw his brain.
Andy, 2,000 for a converted Corvair is way low.
Now, I'll just run for cover.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
Get real! If you want to build a real plane, that is not really
"experimental", then you're talking Lycoming, Continental,
Rotax, Jabiru, etc. You're also going to spend money on other stuff.
If you scrounge, and convert a car engine, etc. you can be one of the
miracle builders. But for the average guy, it's not gonna happen. PLus
it shouldn't. Do your families a favor, and don't hobby yourself into
becoming a statistic. Flying is
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137880#137880
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? |
if you follow the plans specs, they should align well. I am proud to say mine
came out trimmed out. aileron and flap align nice. Check the flap stop is 4
to 5mm from trail edge.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
>Sent: Oct 2, 2007 10:10 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...?
>
>
>Mine did not line up, not by a long shot. It was so far off (probably 20mm) the
hingeless attachment was not possible. I got ZAC to send me wide hinges and
and a doubler, and converted to hinged ailerons.
>
>Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
>
>
>"PatrickW" wrote:
>
>>
>>Are the trailing edges of the Aileron and the Flap aligned with one another when
both are in the "neutral" position...?
>>
>>I'm getting ready to drill the hingeless ailerons on my 601XL, and I've also
got my flaps sitting there next to them, just to give it an "eyeball" check.
>>
>>The measurements seem to check, but it just doesn't look right....
>>
>>Anybody with a completed wing that can give me a sanity check on the measurement
between the trailing edge rivet line on the wing and the leading edge rivet
line on the aileron?
>>
>>Is your entire trailing edge "one smooth line" across the ailerons and flaps...?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Patrick
>>XL/Corvair
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137730#137730
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
| From: | "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> |
I believe I see the secret to Williams 'success' in the background of one of the
pix. Anyone else catch it? It's lime green. It's a drivable early 70s VW Beetle.
He doesn't just build planes, he's been farting around with this type of
stuff all his life I would guess.
[quote="craig(at)craigandjean.com"]To give you a lower bound here is Bill Clapp's
Corvair-powered KR2S built (with engine) for $7200:
http://www.krnet.org/krs/wc/ (http://www.krnet.org/krs/wc/)
Now somebody will say "but it's composite".
-- Craig
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137882#137882
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage Component Crate Length? |
| From: | "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> |
Crate shipped today.
Shirley said it's 127" x 49" x 28" and weighs 357 lbs.
601XL fuselage, controls, and gear.
Woo Hoo!
PatrickW
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137883#137883
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
| From: | "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com> |
I think mid thirties is the most realistic minimum. At least for anything
that I would think about flying. :)
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137890#137890
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
| From: | "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> |
n85ae wrote:
> I think mid thirties is the most realistic minimum. At least for anything
> that I would think about flying. :)
>
> Jeff
Ok, I'll build you one and sell it to you for $35,000. Then we'll know it's nice
and safe. LOL
Price-wise, what makes it safe? Because it was purchased as a kit, even though
51% of the work was completed by some homebuilder of questionable talent. Or is
it the $25,000 O-200 Lycoming engine from Aircraft Spruce? I'm just curious
as to the logic?
What if I was an A&P mechanic and I built the hull for $6,000 and rebuilt an O-200
I had laying around myself for another $3,000 for a total of $9,000. Would
it be safe?
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137891#137891
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Yarde Metals is still cheaper than Aircraft Spruce and they pack the material very
nicely. You will need to purchase 5 to 8 sheet at a time in order to take
advantage of their better pricing.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
No, those numbers are not way off. They're right on the money. I have spent $1,200
- $1,300 to build a rudder, the elevator, the stabilizer, and the left wing
not including the ailerons including rivets from Zenith. Nothing unsafe about
it. The parts are to spec per the plans. Just off the top of my head, I'd say
I've used about 7 sheets of 4 x 12 6061-T6 in various thinknesses. A sheet
from Aircraft spruce is about $90. So right there we're looking at about $650
for 85% of the materials required for those parts. Add in $350 for my 8' bending
brake and we're up to $1,600 - $1,700.
Now if you consider those parts are identical to what would be shipped from Zenith,
then that 'safety issue' is irrelavent. The next safety issue is the assembly
process, in which case there is no difference between a scratch builder and
a kit builder. Actually, if anything, the scratch builder may be a safer builder
due to the skill set developed to actually make the parts to spec, giving
the scratch builder an even better overall metalurgical best-practices understanding
of the building process.
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
> I think his #'s are way off if you are wanting to scratch build a nice safe
aircraft.... The spread sheet attached is real world #'s with the part numbers
of a plane I did a builder assist on. It has aluminum brake and fuel lines and
the spread sheet includes all the fittings for them also. It doesn't include
the aluminum for scratch building as I used a kit. But I have been kicking
around the idea of scratch building one and the best I can figure it will cost
around 25,000.
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/3/2007 10:41:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ashontz(at)nbme.org
writes:
>
> > Building from scratch is pretty cheap. Figure $5,000 in materials, maybe
a little more. Corvair with conversion, another $2,000. Basic instruments,
$2,500 - $3,000. If it takes you 4 years that's $2,500/yr, or about $200/month.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137875#137875
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Afterfxllc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
All I have to say is good luck with your 5,000 build as almost every one
here has said it is between 25 and 30 thousand to get a plane into the air. I
never said scratch building was unsafe or some how a lesser aircraft. But you
will find your 5,000 figure is going to grow to around 8 or 9 thousand and if
you look at my spread sheet you will see that WW's parts are around 5,000 to
do a safe conversion and the engine parts from clarks is 2,500.00 again to
build a safe reliable engine conversion and that doesn't count the 150.00
nitrate or machine work. If you use falcon heads another 1,200 so just the FWF
is
around 8,800.00 not counting the cowling, carb, airbox etc. So I would say
your #'s are off. I have built one and the numbers are what they are.
In a message dated 10/3/2007 1:33:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ashontz(at)nbme.org writes:
No, those numbers are not way off. They're right on the money. I have spent
$1,200 - $1,300 to build a rudder, the elevator, the stabilizer, and the left
wing not including the ailerons including rivets from Zenith. Nothing unsafe
about it. The parts are to spec per the plans. Just off the top of my head,
I'd say I've used about 7 sheets of 4 x 12 6061-T6 in various thinknesses. A
sheet from Aircraft spruce is about $90. So right there we're looking at
about $650 for 85% of the materials required for those parts. Add in $350 for
my
8' bending brake and we're up to $1,600 - $1,700.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
If you made all of the parts yourself then you can get it around 3,000. But if
you buy all the parts from Clarks, WW and get your heads done by Falcon and you
crank by Nitron, then you are talking about 6K to 7K. Excluding FWF.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
I've rebuilt a lot of engines in my day. I don't think it'll be much more than
that. Maybe $3,000. I'm certainly not going to skimp on safety. If I can rebuild
a 4 cylinder outboard engine or a car engine for $500, I can't imagine a Corvair
being that much more, they're just parts and they're readily available.
About the only difference is some of the specialty items on it.
[quote="bill_dom(at)yahoo.com"]This topic is baaack!
Sorry list, but some of us including myself just can get enough of this topic.
So here I go.
Jeff, no matter how much someone scrounge, We all agree that putting a Lyco, Continental,
Jabiru or Rotax and spend less than 30K is close to impossible, even
for non average builder. The < 30K crowd are those who are going for auto conversions,
specially the Corvair.
However, if you consider an auto conversion to be risky, unsafe, only reserved
for miracle builders or not having a real airplane, then that's another big topic
where you will find a lot of experienced builders disagreeing.
Some builders consider an auto conversion a bad way to loose one's marbles, in
the same way some pilots consider flying a homebuilt plane a bad way to loose
one's marbles. I knew one pilot with over 2,000 flight hours who is instrument,
multi engine certified and Mensa member, who consider flying a homebuilt plane
a crazy idea. When I told him that some builders have flown the Zodiac with
Harley Davidson engine he rolled up his eyes so much that he saw his brain.
Andy, 2,000 for a converted Corvair is way low.
Now, I'll just run for cover.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
Get real! If you want to build a real plane, that is not really
"experimental", then you're talking Lycoming, Continental,
Rotax, Jabiru, etc. You're also going to spend money on other stuff.
If you scrounge, and convert a car engine, etc. you can be one of the
miracle builders. But for the average guy, it's not gonna happen. PLus
it shouldn't. Do your families a favor, and don't hobby yourself into
becoming a statistic. Flying is
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137880#137880
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Afterfxllc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Just build it..... who care's what it costs. If you do it for 5,000 10,000
who cares as long as your happy with it. My numbers are based on what it cost's
me to build one the way I want it built. You may choose to build one with
less expensive things if so when your done send us a pic and a list of costs to
help other builders build theirs cheaper.
In a message dated 10/3/2007 2:40:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ashontz(at)nbme.org writes:
Ok, I'll build you one and sell it to you for $35,000. Then we'll know it's
nice and safe. LOL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
| From: | "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> |
Not to drag on, but just adding up what you have listed here, by your own account,
looks more like 9,000 + 8,800 for fuselage and engine. Where's the extra $17,200?
If you're not going ape with avionics, even by your own admission you
should be under $20,000.
Even so, I said $5,000 - $6,000 for fuselage, $10,000 total, that's a possibility
for a bare bones plane, depending on how much of the engine I do myself, and
I will do a lot.
[quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]All I have to say is good luck with your 5,000 build
as almost every one here has said it is between 25 and 30 thousand to get
a plane into the air. I never said scratch building was unsafe or some how
a lesser aircraft. But you will find your 5,000 figure is going to grow to around
8 or 9 thousand and if you look at my spread sheet you will see that WW's
parts are around 5,000 to do a safe conversion and the engine parts from clarks
is 2,500.00 again to build a safe reliable engine conversion and that doesn't
count the 150.00 nitrate or machine work. If you use falcon heads another
1,200 so just the FWF is around 8,800.00 not counting the cowling, carb, airbox
etc. So I would say your #'s are off. I have built one and the numbers
are what they are.
In a message dated 10/3/2007 1:33:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ashontz(at)nbme.org
writes:
> No, those numbers are not way off. They're right on the money. I have spent
$1,200 - $1,300 to build a rudder, the elevator, the stabilizer, and the
left wing not including the ailerons including rivets from Zenith. Nothing
unsafe about it. The parts are to spec per the plans. Just off the top of my
head, I'd say I've used about 7 sheets of 4 x 12 6061-T6 in various thinknesses.
A sheet from Aircraft spruce is about $90. So right there we're looking
at about $650 for 85% of the materials required for those parts. Add
in $350 for my 8' bending brake and we're up to $1,600 - $1,700.
>
See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137900#137900
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Afterfxllc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
I said just the corvair FWF engine conversion was around 8,800 not counting
the carb, airbox, or cowling. I said nothing about airframe. The avionics I
use cost around 6,000 and as I said before I used a kit not scratch built but
if you have never built an aircraft you will be surprised how the little
things add up. like flap motors, trim servos, wheels, brake's hell a canopy is
600.00 + shipping ... If you are saying you can build just the airframe for
5,000 minus the expensive stuff I might agree with you but I still say that a
well built 601 xl with a good reliable corvair conversion can't be done for
under 25,000 If you do it great but you couldn't do it if you put in standard
instruments and the proper parts for the engine.
In a message dated 10/3/2007 2:59:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ashontz(at)nbme.org writes:
Not to drag on, but just adding up what you have listed here, by your own
account, looks more like 9,000 + 8,800 for fuselage and engine. Where's the
extra $17,200? If you're not going ape with avionics, even by your own admission
you should be under $20,000.
Even so, I said $5,000 - $6,000 for fuselage, $10,000 total, that's a
possibility for a bare bones plane, depending on how much of the engine I do
myself, and I will do a lot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Zenith building expense |
Hello All:
I recommend scrap building as the way to build for nearly free (except the
engine). But it will be a long while before you fly. So in the meantime,
start or join a flying club like ours and be a active pilot the entire time
you build.
http://www.eaa163.com/club/index.htm
We currently have four memberships available.
Buy in at $1000.00
Yearly dues $200.00
Fly at $45.00/wet tach time (we have no hobbs).
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Afterfxllc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
You should really buy WW's conversion manual before you waste your money. We
do use the heads that come off the engine but they need new guides put in the
and anything less than what falcon does IMO shouldn't be in airplanes. The
crank will need to be tapped for the safety shaft and nitrated so the cost for
all the machine work is around 300.00 so whichever crank you use it will
cost you the same because the 209 crank will need to be tapped unless you are
doing that yourself. Look I build aircraft that anyone would feel safe in I
don't cut corners and I don't risk lives to save a buck so build yours how you
want but please do your homework first. This is my last post on this
subject
In a message dated 10/3/2007 3:28:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ashontz(at)nbme.org writes:
Most of the line items I would be interested in would be the internal engine
parts. Still, I don't see heads listed on there, nor would I expect them to
be. That being the case, why replace the jugs but not the heads. If anything
it would be the other way around. If the heads are ok, I don't see any reason
the jugs would need to be replaced. Hone them lightly, caliper them, if they
look ok no need to spend another $350
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Patrick,
Although it is not a good viewpoint, here is a picture of mine. I have about 3-4mm
of trailing edge difference when the aileron and flap are lined up. The
aileron is the one that is a little short. In order to preserve the aileron rivet
line edge distance I left it that way and pressed on.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done, engine next.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137908#137908
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rightwing_462.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
| From: | "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com> |
I guess, you can get a really long string, and some soup cans for cheap
and then you'll have a communication device as well. :) In fact you can
do this for an intercom as well.
I think mid-thirties is a reasonable minimum number for a builder to
spend.
I put an injected Continental in my Kitfox, and filled the panel with stuff
by King and Garmin, I spent mid-sixties on it. I expect I will invest a
similar amount in my 801 when it is done. I could have built the plane
with a lot less, but I would have a lot less plane as well.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137915#137915
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | weight and Balance |
fellow builders,
the day is getting close! I did my weight and Bal. and the plane came in at 767
empty weight with a usefull load of 553lbs. the CG is at 344, not bad. Where
is every one coming in on the Wand B?
Juan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | weight and Balance |
fellow builders,
the day is getting close! I did my weight and Bal. and the plane came in at 767
empty weight with a usefull load of 553lbs. the CG is at 344, not bad. Where
is every one coming in on the Wand B?
Juan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? |
dave that llooks great.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: DaveG601XL <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
>Sent: Oct 3, 2007 4:14 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...?
>
>
>Patrick,
>
>Although it is not a good viewpoint, here is a picture of mine. I have about
3-4mm of trailing edge difference when the aileron and flap are lined up. The
aileron is the one that is a little short. In order to preserve the aileron
rivet line edge distance I left it that way and pressed on.
>
>Good luck,
>
>--------
>David Gallagher
>601 XL, tail and wings completed,
>fueslage almost done, engine next.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137908#137908
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/rightwing_462.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: weight and Balance |
Talking about W&B, is there anyone with a completed W&B for a 601XL, that
they could send me. I want to do some practicing, but have no ideas on the
figures. Send anything you have to _LHusky(at)aol.com_ (mailto:LHusky(at)aol.com)
Thanks,
Larry Husky
601XL/Corvair
Madras, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure |
At 15:43 02-10-07, you wrote:
>
>[Rolling Eyes] I am a new owner of a Zodiac 601 HDS The A/C has a
>TTEA of 150 Hrs.. The engine is a Rotax 912 UL # 4401716..I am used
>to Lyconing engines but Rotax is new to me. Lately I have noticed
>that the oil pressure is higher than what is specified in
>the manual. It is supposed to be 22-72 psi , when I am turning
>about 5000 rpm it fluctuate over 80psi. I can't find any thing about
>it in the trouble shooting about high oil pressure..Is there any body out
Another possible issue regarding oil pressure changes:
I found that changing to an actual Rotax oil filter, from one that is
simply compatible, seems to have increased the oil pressure somewhat.
Have others found this to be correct?
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | weight and Balance |
Gary Ray's has numbers filled in:
http://www.ch601.org/resources/W
<http://www.ch601.org/resources/W&B/ZodiacXLWBFinal.xls>
&B/ZodiacXLWBFinal.xls
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito" <lenabeto(at)uol.com.br> |
| Subject: | About True Track Autopilot |
Hi Guys,
Does anyone here have a pictures showing the True Track Autopilot
instalation which goes on Zodiac XL 601?
If so, please send it to me lenabeto(at)uol.com.br
Rgds,
Roberto Brito.
Zodiac XL Jab 3300,
Enigma,
Woodcomp 3300 Prop
Brazil.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | About True Track Autopilot |
Did you look at the autopilot servo pictures in the photo share?
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/craig@craigandjean.com.02.11.2006
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
| Subject: | Sorry Guys it is another long winded response |
Jeff, would this be the wrong time to mention that my company
demonstrator 601XL is a plans built with a Corvair engine? Not to
mention that total cost is below $15,000 if you don't count my panel of
which I went overboard. In addition, you added Jabiru to the aircraft
motors, this is not a certified Aircraft motor and is mostly constructed
using automotive parts. I have a few friends that have a 601 even
cheaper, one gent has a standard panel 601XL ready for flight,( waiting
for final inspection) he plans built it in a year and is under $12,000
without paint but everything else.
Safety is construction methods and materials, not brand names! Although
most plans built aircraft are not as nice as a kit built plane, I have
seen some plans built planes I would be very happy to fly and some kit
built that scarred me, also I have seen a few that won Grand Champion at
the airshows.
Jeff, you are inflicting your point of view, this comes from the path
you have traveled over your life. IT is sound advice for those who have
traveled similar routes. Nevertheless, it is not an opinion that is
relevant to others who walked the line of life enjoying the creation of
projects. Building a plane from plans is not hard; 10 years ago, Zenair
only sold kits that were hand created, to say, each and every part was
made in the plans builder fashion. THEREFORE, if a builder is willing to
take the time to learn the proper methods, there is no reason in this
world why he cannot build a plane just as airworthy as yours.
MOREOVER, if plans=92 building was such a hard and unachievable goal
then
why would Zenith support such a feature? Why would I have instructed a
workshop, in the Zenith facility during the open house?
Hosted by Mark of HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com" \nCan-Zac
Aviation (Zenith Aircraft's Canadian representative), this workshop
covered the skills, materials, tools and commitment required to
accomplish the feat of plans-building your own aircraft, whether the
HYPERLINK "http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7drawings.html"STOL CH 701
or HYPERLINK "http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/drawings.html"Zodiac
XL, for less than $10,000 (not counting the engine). Topics included:
Reading and understanding the drawings and manuals, making rib form
blocks, cutting the sheet metal rib blanks, deburring and polishing
techniques, rib forming, tips, tricks and techniques, and more.
>From the Zenith website, written by the President of Zenith. Being
generous with a FWF of $5,000 for a Corvair installation and you have a
plane for under $15,000.
Jeff, I in no way wish to insult you, Everything you have stated in the
last few letters is true as it applies to yourself and other like minded
people. I believe that you truly cannot see that it is possible for
others to accomplish this feat; I also believe that you have certain
beliefs in your decisions that would not allow you to accomplish this
goal. However, others do not share your thought process, nor should they
if it is not appropriate.
In closing, installing a Jabiru engine in my 601XL would have been my
first choice, along with the FWF. It really is a simple installation and
very nice engine. Nevertheless, I am not a rich man, so when I weighed
the options I installed the Corvair and have a safe plane, with a proven
track record design.
Yes Jeff, I do consider my 601XL a =93real=94 plane. Also I consider
myself
an average builder when I began it, plus my first plane I built from
plans I considered myself a less then average builder, but very eager to
learn as much as I could.
I have said this before to many, if you are building to own and fly a
brand new plane with superior performance over the old dilapidated
rental fleets out there, buy a QBK kit! IF you are building to save a
few dollars but get a flying plane then purchase a kit. IF your building
to live an adventure of building a plane from a flat sheet and the
flying at the end is just a new bonus then consider a plans built, it is
a hell of an adventure.
As for the NSI and dead stick landings, yup I can see that. I have
always held the belief that if you take any motor designed at 70hp then
hop It up to 105hp your in for a world of headaches. I like the Subaru
engines, I have 5 in the shop, but they are a harder conversion and not
for the average guy like the Corvair is. In addition, the average
Corvair is outputting the hp is was designed for. Nevertheless, each of
us must make that decision based on their own investigations, NO-ONE can
tell us what to do in our own planes, but it is always good to hear the
opinions, BOTH sides of the coin and pick which truths apply to our own
personal capabilities and situations.
As for Renting, Lets see my last rental, C-150 walk around. All
fiberglass parts cracked. Duct tape holding things on, oil leaks from
FWF, drips of fuel from wing tank bleeders. Paint in shameful faded
condition. Windshield and side windows glazed, fuel gauges inaccurate,
one non-functional, seats ripped and hard to move, carpet stank !
GOD I wish I only found this on one plane but it is all to typical of
the rental fleet out there. I show my list of real problems I would NOT
accept in my own plane and get the response that it has just had a fresh
annual a month or two ago and is all good till next year. IT may fly but
I feel far safer behind the plane I built and did not have to use duct
tape to keep parts on.
Moreover, don=92t forget the bragging rights as you take that pretty
woman
up for her first flight in a plane you own and built. Well hopefully
someone has bragged over this, I have been married for over 20 years and
forfeited this right.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of n85ae
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 11:25 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense
Get real! If you want to build a real plane, that is not really
"experimental", then you're talking Lycoming, Continental,
Rotax, Jabiru, etc. You're also going to spend money on other stuff.
If you scrounge, and convert a car engine, etc. you can be one of the
miracle builders. But for the average guy, it's not gonna happen. PLus
it shouldn't. Do your families a favor, and don't hobby yourself into
becoming a statistic. Flying is dangerous enough.
Mid-Thirties is the bottom end - Realistically.
Yes, I've seen stuff that looks like it was powered by Briggs and
Stratton
with a carved 2x4 for a prop, I've also had the pleasure of watching
a hangar neighbor continuously wrenching on his NSI turbo Subaru,
which he enjoyed immensely since he was a tinkerer. Yep 12 hours of
wrenching for every hour of flight, not to mention the occasional dead
stick landing ....
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137844#137844
10/2/2007 6:43 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
| Subject: | Stratus Subaru seasonal mixture |
Hi guys,
Still in test mode, (mentally,) I thought it best to confess my latest
flub so others might learn or gain insight.
September 29 I was at the airport at 7:00 a.m. Larry Dorgan (a friend
and 701 Builder) arrived shortly after and we took off toward Burlington
into a decent headwind. A thin overcast with sunshine provided a soft
light patchwork of brown and green fields and we had smooth 75-degree
air. At 2500 feet and 20 minutes out, water and oil temps crept to my
EIS safe set points 220-coolant and 250-oil. We got a warning light. I
let off 4900 rpm and temps subsided temporarily. The heat muff was
moving cool air, so that wasnt the problem. We were both disappointed,
but decided to safely return to MLI and forego this years Open House at
Zenith. At home, I re-visited the Bing Manual and realized Id noted
178 and 2.78 jets are for summer. I was still flying with the leaner
176 and 2.76 winter jets. These are intended for a winter-air-soaked
engine that could tolerate a warmer mixture. My summer jets should
have been 178 and 2.78 for a richer mixture to reduce engine heat so
coolant and oil can do their part. After lunch, I drove back to the
airport and re-jetted the Bings to 178 and 2.78. Id mixed assumptions
about thin hot air versus thick cold air, which are less a concern. The
percentage of engine heat output reduced by a richer mixture in summer
is important. EGTS reduced from 1425 by 50 degrees should allow coolant
and oil temps go lower by similar numbers. The afternoon wind was
blowing pretty hard so confirmation of this would be left to the next
good day.
This good day, I took flying gear to the hangar to check numbers for the
178 and 2.78 jets. I took off from 27, climbed to 4000 ft and maintained
4900 rpm for 15 minutes. This was repeated at 2500 feet. Coolant
temperatures never went above 197-deg F, Oil remained at 230-deg F, CHTs
read 203-deg F and EGTs stayed under 1380. After the test flight, I
landed on 27, taxied back satisfied and reassured by the results. Its
true that correct seasonal mixture per one jet size can have everything
to do with cooling the Subaru engine. In my haste to be ready for Open
Hangar Day, I missed the symptoms of an engine that had been running
near safe EIS set points most of the summer. Nothing harmed, but its a
point that should be made and will have to be remembered for the next
trip. We probably missed a good Saturday too.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeyoung65(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
This sounds like good advice but I have a problem send money to a PO Box and
not being able to reach a person. Last week I was able to spend some time in
Daytona Beach, Fla. and thought this would be a great time to pickup the
manual from WW. Problem was I thought the hangar was outside Dayton mapquest
could not find the address. Tried calling two number, one was disconnected and
the other one told me to call another number. When I called it a machine told
me to leave a message and then disconnected me. So I sent an e-mail but still
have not heard from anyone. No sure I will buy from anyone I can not talk to!
There I got it off my chest. SORRY Jerry of Ga
"You should really buy WW's conversion manual before you waste your money."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
| Subject: | Stratus Subaru seasonal mixture |
Sorry to say Larry , Ya Missed a Great time. Oh well there is always the
Sun-N-Fun BBQ
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LarryMcFarland
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 8:41 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Stratus Subaru seasonal mixture
Hi guys,
Still in test mode, (mentally,) I thought it best to confess my latest
flub so others might learn or gain insight.
September 29 I was at the airport at 7:00 a.m. Larry Dorgan (a friend
and 701 Builder) arrived shortly after and we took off toward Burlington
into a decent headwind. A thin overcast with sunshine provided a soft
light patchwork of brown and green fields and we had smooth 75-degree
air. At 2500 feet and 20 minutes out, water and oil temps crept to my
EIS safe set points 220-coolant and 250-oil. We got a warning light. I
let off 4900 rpm and temps subsided temporarily. The heat muff was
moving cool air, so that wasnt the problem. We were both disappointed,
but decided to safely return to MLI and forego this years Open House at
Zenith. At home, I re-visited the Bing Manual and realized Id noted
178 and 2.78 jets are for summer. I was still flying with the leaner
176 and 2.76 winter jets. These are intended for a winter-air-soaked
engine that could tolerate a warmer mixture. My summer jets should
have been 178 and 2.78 for a richer mixture to reduce engine heat so
coolant and oil can do their part. After lunch, I drove back to the
airport and re-jetted the Bings to 178 and 2.78. Id mixed assumptions
about thin hot air versus thick cold air, which are less a concern. The
percentage of engine heat output reduced by a richer mixture in summer
is important. EGTS reduced from 1425 by 50 degrees should allow coolant
and oil temps go lower by similar numbers. The afternoon wind was
blowing pretty hard so confirmation of this would be left to the next
good day.
This good day, I took flying gear to the hangar to check numbers for the
178 and 2.78 jets. I took off from 27, climbed to 4000 ft and maintained
4900 rpm for 15 minutes. This was repeated at 2500 feet. Coolant
temperatures never went above 197-deg F, Oil remained at 230-deg F, CHTs
read 203-deg F and EGTs stayed under 1380. After the test flight, I
landed on 27, taxied back satisfied and reassured by the results. Its
true that correct seasonal mixture per one jet size can have everything
to do with cooling the Subaru engine. In my haste to be ready for Open
Hangar Day, I missed the symptoms of an engine that had been running
near safe EIS set points most of the summer. Nothing harmed, but its a
point that should be made and will have to be remembered for the next
trip. We probably missed a good Saturday too.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
10/2/2007 6:43 PM
10/2/2007 6:43 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robin Bellach" <601zv(at)ritternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Jeyoung, you apparently had some very old contact info for WW. Just go
to http://flycorvair.com/ for all current information.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense
This sounds like good advice but I have a problem send money to a PO
Box and not being able to reach a person. Last week I was able to spend
some time in Daytona Beach, Fla. and thought this would be a great time
to pickup the manual from WW. Problem was I thought the hangar was
outside Dayton mapquest could not find the address. Tried calling two
number, one was disconnected and the other one told me to call another
number. When I called it a machine told me to leave a message and then
disconnected me. So I sent an e-mail but still have not heard from
anyone. No sure I will buy from anyone I can not talk to! There I got it
off my chest. SORRY Jerry of Ga
"You should really buy WW's conversion manual before you waste your
money."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response |
| From: | "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net> |
8)
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137973#137973
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John M. Goodings" <goodings(at)yorku.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure |
When we first flew our 601HD with R912S, the oil pressure was LOW. It
turned out to be the pressure gauge or sender, I don't know which. It
reads 2/3 of the correct value over a considerable range (20-40 psi).
This was determined by putting a second known accurate pressure gauge
simultaneously in the oil line. My point is, don't assume your gauge
reading is correct! There may be nothing wrong with the oil pressure.
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa Carp/Toronto.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeyoung65(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
That is where I got the addresses and phone number. Jerry of Ga
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin L. Rupert" <klr12(at)psu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response |
Mark,
Well said! My number are coming in around 14-15K too but hey, I'm not
going to argue about it.
Kevin R.
601XL/Corvair
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET> |
| Subject: | Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response |
Hi Mark,
I don't want to get into the scratch builder pricing discussion, but
I would like to comment on one little part of your message.
At 05:37 PM 10/3/2007, you wrote:
>IF you are building to save a few dollars but get a flying plane
>then purchase a kit.
I think there are nearly as many reasons people build an airplane as
there are people doing it. I am not really trying to get a plane for
a discount and get flying quickly. Indeed, I am not sure I will
enjoy flying at all. I have been an inactive pilot for around 20
years, and while I always was a good pilot I never really enjoyed it
a whole bunch. Flying has always been more of a challenge for me
than an act of pleasure. I am hoping the lack of scheduling issues
flying rentals will make flying my own plane more enjoyable.
I mostly wanted to build a plane because I wanted something
"Worthwhile" to build. After retiring as an engineer and designer of
computers for mass production, I found life to be a bit boring. I
have always enjoyed building stuff and it never really mattered what
kind of stuff it was. The new Sport Pilot and LSA rules led me down
the garden path to building an airplane.
For me the kit approach was the clear choice. I have sufficient
funds for any approach to flying light airplanes. The kit
manufacturer allows me to build my own plane without doing the
administrative work of finding all the materials. They also perform
many of the "Difficult" tasks that require special equipment or
skills. These include things like welding and bending 12 foot long
pieces of metal. I am happy to pay Zenith for these services. For
me the really important saving offered by the kit is not the saving
of money but the saving of time and effort doing stuff I don't really
like doing.
I think it is good for us to have these discussions of builder
motives and costs. Alas, the temptation we all seem to have is to
think our own analysis is the only one that really counts and should
be applied to all other builders. I think the truth is each builder
and each airplane built is unique. We can all try to help each other
complete our projects even if we can't agree on the reasons and
issues each of us must consider.
Paul
XL fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John M. Goodings" <goodings(at)yorku.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing7 |
The "heavy left wing" phenomenon is fairly common on the HD and HDS (I
don't know about the XL). I think it is probably due mainly to
clockwise-rotating propeller torque. Slightly incorrect offset angle of
the engine mount might be another reason. Non-skid wing root material
won't be a contributor. In other words, I can't give you a definitive
answer! Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a
counter-clockwise-rotating prop? It would be fun to know. I have never
heard of a case of heavy right wing. We put our trim tab about half way
out along the aileron; the precise distance is not critical. Further out
from the fuselage will have more effect. It is absolutely NOT necessary
to go to the trouble of making two trim tabs, one for each wing; you have
better uses for your time!
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa Carp/Toronto.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
| From: | "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> |
Hopefully I can do all that on my lather and milling machine.
[quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]You should really buy WW's conversion manual before
you waste your money. We do use the heads that come off the engine but they
need new guides put in the and anything less than what falcon does IMO shouldn't
be in airplanes. The crank will need to be tapped for the safety shaft
and nitrated so the cost for all the machine work is around 300.00 so whichever
crank you use it will cost you the same because the 209 crank will need to
be tapped unless you are doing that yourself. Look I build aircraft that anyone
would feel safe in I don't cut corners and I don't risk lives to save a
buck so build yours how you want but please do your homework first. This is
my last post on this subject
In a message dated 10/3/2007 3:28:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ashontz(at)nbme.org
writes:
> Most of the line items I would be interested in would be the internal engine
parts. Still, I don't see heads listed on there, nor would I expect them
to be. That being the case, why replace the jugs but not the heads. If anything
it would be the other way around. If the heads are ok, I don't see any
reason the jugs would need to be replaced. Hone them lightly, caliper them,
if they look ok no need to spend another $350
See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137981#137981
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure |
| From: | "Edward Micallef" <edmica2(at)yahoo.com> |
To all who responded to my problem with the high oil pressure, thank you I will
check each one out till I find the the right fix and of course keep you all
informed..the weather is changing in the NW and I will have to check this out
in between rain showers...Ed :
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137985#137985
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing7 |
> Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a counter-clockwise-rotating
prop? It would be fun to know.
Corvairs spin the "other" way.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? |
| From: | "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks everyone.
Initially I'd marked off a line 10mm back from the "leading edge" of the aileron
skin that forms the hinge, and set that up as the rivet centerline.
But it just didn't look right...
It occurred to me that maybe there was some "extra" on the top aileron skin, and
that maybe I shouldn't be using it as a reference to measure from.
So I went back to the drawings and added up some measurements and came up with
a distance of 45mm between the front of the aileron "spar" (not sure what it's
really called but I think you know what I mean) and the rear channel of the wing.
I set up for that distance, and things looked a lot better.
So I went with that. Looks good.
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137994#137994
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Gates <leo(at)zuehlfield.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing7 |
I was concerned with this "heavy left wing phenomena" a couple of years
ago when I did my phase one flight testing. I have an HDS with electric
aileron and elevator trim. I noticed that with both wing tanks full, my
trim tab indicated that I had a "heavy left wing". I landed and moved
to the right seat, and took off, you guessed it, I now had a "heavy
right wing". I find that I have to adjust aileron trim, or switch fuel
tanks, about every 10 minutes to maintain "hands off trim", solo or
with passenger. This topic has been beat to death in the past. Do not
archive.
Leo Gates
N601Z, CH601HDS TDO, Rotax 912UL
John M. Goodings wrote:
>
> The "heavy left wing" phenomenon is fairly common on the HD and HDS (I
> don't know about the XL). I think it is probably due mainly to
> clockwise-rotating propeller torque.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeyoung65(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: avex rivet question clarification |
In a message dated 9/29/2007 11:25:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
gboothe5(at)comcast.net writes:
Gary, I used CherryMax rivets and did not try to "done" the head.
I have found no one who has much on the pop rivet inspection. Have fun
building. Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: About True Track Autopilot |
| From: | "N601RT" <N601RT(at)comcast.net> |
TruTrak website has drawings for the CH601XL at http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/documents/ZodiacPitchandRoll.pdf
I'm very happy with my DigiFlight IIVSGV.
Regards,
Roy
N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 851hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138009#138009
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Loer" <rloer(at)aceweb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
------- Original Message -------
>From : Afterfxllc(at)aol.com[mailto:Afterfxllc(at)aol.com]
Sent : 10/3/2007 1:10:29 PM
To : zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Cc :
Subject : RE: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense
SNIP
This is my last post on this subject
THANK GOD!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Loer" <rloer(at)aceweb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing7 |
If I understand a trim tab on an aileron when you have a heavy or low left wing
you put a tab on the left and bend it up which moves the aileron down and raises
the wing.
If this is correct would it make a difference where or how far out on the aileron
it was mounted?
Robert Loer
>------- Original Message -------
>From : John M. Goodings[mailto:goodings(at)yorku.ca]
>Sent : 10/3/2007 7:17:37 PM
>To : zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Cc :
>Subject : RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7
>
The "heavy left wing" phenomenon is fairly common on the HD and HDS (I
don't know about the XL). I think it is probably due mainly to
clockwise-rotating propeller torque. Slightly incorrect offset angle of
the engine mount might be another reason. Non-skid wing root material
won't be a contributor. In other words, I can't give you a definitive
answer! Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a
counter-clockwise-rotating prop? It would be fun to know. I have never
heard of a case of heavy right wing. We put our trim tab about half way
out along the aileron; the precise distance is not critical. Further out
from the fuselage will have more effect. It is absolutely NOT necessary
to go to the trouble of making two trim tabs, one for each wing; you have
better uses for your time!
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa Carp/Toronto.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing7 |
| From: | "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com> |
I don't know about the 601, but the 640 and CH2000 drawings specify an aileron
trim tab to be placed on the bottom inboard surface of the aileron, effectively
pushing that aileron up. This makes sense to me as you are applying the trim
tab force closest to the end rib actuator, thus there is less of a twisting force
applied.
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138035#138035
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> |
>From the top of the main page at flycorvair.com.
William Wynne
The Corvair Authority
5000-18 HWY 17 #247
Orange Park, FL 32003
This is his home address and he is no longer in the Edgewater FL hanger. That has been turned over to Gus. FOr details visit: http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html
Jeyoung65(at)aol.com wrote:
> That is where I got the addresses and phone number. Jerry of Ga
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138053#138053
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Maxson <pmaxpmax(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing7 |
My Corvair spins the "wrong way", and I have the slight left wing heavy thi
ng, so it's not prop-wash. I usually just fill the right tank only or burn
fuel from the left tank first. I find leaning my knee on the stick helps.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
> From: craig(at)craigandjean.com> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: RE:
Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:44:01 -0600> >
> > Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a counter-clockwise-rotat
ing> prop? It would be fun to know.> > Corvairs spin the "other" way.> > --
Craig
_________________________________________________________________
!
ilnews
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeyoung65(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
In a message dated 10/4/2007 9:38:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net writes:
http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html
Thanks Gig for the information. It filled in a lot of blank areas. Jerry of
Ga
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Ray" <davgray(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing7 |
John
There is another method to consider shown on
http://www.ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm under the Bungee Trim heading.
To me the advantage would be to bias the system and assist the electric trim
system for single pilot operation.
In my aircraft with me at 218 lbs flying alone with evenly balanced fuel, my
electric trim tab is deployed 1/2 to 3/4 of full travel depending on air
speed. I may install this modification to allow a nearly neutral trim tab
position and use the electric trim for fine the finer adjustments as fuel
burns off.
Gary Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "John M. Goodings" <goodings(at)yorku.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 10:17 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7
>
> The "heavy left wing" phenomenon is fairly common on the HD and HDS (I
> don't know about the XL). I think it is probably due mainly to
> clockwise-rotating propeller torque. Slightly incorrect offset angle of
> the engine mount might be another reason. Non-skid wing root material
> won't be a contributor. In other words, I can't give you a definitive
> answer! Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a
> counter-clockwise-rotating prop? It would be fun to know. I have never
> heard of a case of heavy right wing. We put our trim tab about half way
> out along the aileron; the precise distance is not critical. Further out
> from the fuselage will have more effect. It is absolutely NOT necessary
> to go to the trouble of making two trim tabs, one for each wing; you have
> better uses for your time!
>
> John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa Carp/Toronto.
>
>
> --
8:22 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing XL |
| From: | japhillipsga(at)aol.com |
I can give you the answer for the heavy left wing on the XL. First the left side
of the plane is heavier than the right side from weight and balance. Even empty
the left side is heavier and has more drag. The flap steel bracket and flap
motor is on the left side of the fuselage. The engine motor mount is canted
to the left side to counter P torque adding to the weight shift. The left wing
has the aileron trim and motor and wires making it heaver and dirtier along with
the pitot tubes under the wing. Now add flying in the left side and you add
body weigh on the left side and you have a heavy left wing. Now when I have
flown with a full size fellow in the right seat I have not had to use much or
any aileron trim so I'm guessing the ZAC folks are smart enough to know the plane
pretty much balances when two folks are flying. Remember, the XL is really
light for as big as it is and sensitive to weight shift. When flying alone I
most ofter use the left tank more than the right to b
alance the plane reduce trim dirt and inprove performance as the plane loses weight.?Just
my 2 cents, Best regards, Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300 120 hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: John M. Goodings <goodings(at)yorku.ca>
Sent: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:17 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7
The "heavy left wing" phenomenon is fairly common on the HD and HDS (I
don't know about the XL). I think it is probably due mainly to
clockwise-rotating propeller torque. Slightly incorrect offset angle of
the engine mount might be another reason. Non-skid wing root material
won't be a contributor. In other words, I can't give you a definitive
answer! Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a
counter-clockwise-rotating prop? It would be fun to know. I have never
heard of a case of heavy right wing. We put our trim tab about half way
out along the aileron; the precise distance is not critical. Further out
from the fuselage will have more effect. It is absolutely NOT necessary
to go to the trouble of making two trim tabs, one for each wing; you have
better uses for your time!
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa Carp/Toronto.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List; Zenith building expense |
| From: | <Craig.Spainhower(at)exeloncorp.com> |
Just a plug for Todd's Canopies www.toddscanopies.com/, I can attest to the excellent quality and the price is about 1/2 that.
>a canopy is
>600.00 + shipping ...
Craig S.
N601XS, 601xl lyc 0-235, ~ $40K not counting labor
-----------------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Afterfxllc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
I need to clarify something from my previous post... on the spread sheet the
gasket set it is priced at 199.00 I ordered one today for my 601 and it is
actually 109.00. You might want to be careful getting an OEM gasket set because
it might have the older style pushrod tube o-rings and they leak and when
you get your head gaskets make sure to use the proper ones not the OEM. I also
stand by my original posts that you cannot build a 601 xl with all the same
parts you get from Zenith for 5,000 dollars there are too many parts you can't
make yourself... Like the gear that is 600.00 or the canopy that is 600.00
the wheels tires and brakes, fuel selector and strobes I do think you can do
it for between 8 and 9 K the rest is up to you as far as costs go I was
simply saying the one's I build can't be done for 20,000. I to see the cost
savings in scratch building and have started making templets of the originals
to
make them faster. And my next one will be plans built. If you would like to see
the one's I am building now you can check out my website at
_www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
the landing gear is eminently doable - and it is not that big of a deal. It
requires a substantial amount of time and craftsmanship but it is a simple
part to make. Now, if you want gundrilled brake lines, that is a different
story - but the basic design is no problem.=0A =0ADave Downey=0AHarleysvil
le (SE) PA=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom:
"Afterfxllc(at)aol.com" =0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
=0ASent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 3:54:06 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: R
e: Zenith building expense=0A=0A=0AI need to clarify something from my prev
ious post... on the spread sheet the gasket set it is priced at 199.00 I or
dered one today for my 601 and it is actually 109.00. You might want to be
careful getting an OEM gasket set because it might have the older style pus
hrod tube o-rings and they leak and when you get your head gaskets make sur
e to use the proper ones not the OEM. I also stand by my original posts tha
t you cannot build a 601 xl with all the same parts you get from Zenith for
5,000 dollars there are too many parts you can't make yourself... Like the
gear that is 600.00 or the canopy that is 600.00 the wheels tires and brak
es, fuel selector and strobes I do think you can do it for between 8 and 9
K the rest is up to you as far as costs go I was simply saying the one's I
build can't be done for 20,000. I to see the cost savings in scratch build
ing and have started making templets of the originals to make them faster.
And my next one will be
plans built. If you would like to see the one's I am building now you can
check out my website at www.project601xl.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ASee what
-========================
============0A=0A=0A =0A_______________________
_____________________________________________________________=0ANeed a vaca
tion? Get great deals=0Ato amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.=0Ahttp://travel
.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response |
| From: | "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com> |
Inflicting my view? Sorry, I didn't realize my opinion conflicted with yours.
I'll run right out and change it. By the way which side of politics do you
stand on?
Have a nice day,
Jeff
zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote:
> ?
> Jeff, would this be the wrong time to mention that my company demonstrator 601XL
is a plans built with a Corvair engine? Not to mention that total cost is
below $15,000 if you don't count my panel of which I went overboard. In addition,
you added Jabiru to the aircraft motors, this is not a certified Aircraft
motor and is mostly constructed using automotive parts. I have a few friends that
have a 601 even cheaper, one gent has a standard panel 601XL ready for flight,(
waiting for final inspection) he plans built it in a year and is under $12,000
without paint but everything else.
>
> Safety is construction methods and materials, not brand names! Although most
plans built aircraft are not as nice as a kit built plane, I have seen some plans
built planes I would be very happy to fly and some kit built that scarred
me, also I have seen a few that won Grand Champion at the airshows.
>
> Jeff, you are inflicting your point of view, this comes from the path you have
traveled over your life. IT is sound advice for those who have traveled similar
routes. Nevertheless, it is not an opinion that is relevant to others who
walked the line of life enjoying the creation of projects. Building a plane from
plans is not hard; 10 years ago, Zenair only sold kits that were hand created,
to say, each and every part was made in the plans builder fashion. THEREFORE,
if a builder is willing to take the time to learn the proper methods, there
is no reason in this world why he cannot build a plane just as airworthy as
yours.
> [img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C805FD.347C1130[/img]
>
>
> MOREOVER, if plans? building was such a hard and unachievable goal then why would
Zenith support such a feature? Why would I have instructed a workshop, in
the Zenith facility during the open house?
> ?
>
> Hosted by Mark of Can-Zac Aviation (http://www.can-zacaviation.com) (Zenith Aircraft's Canadian representative), this workshop covered the skills, materials, tools and commitment required to accomplish the feat of plans-building your own aircraft, whether the STOL CH 701 (http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7drawings.html) or Zodiac XL (http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/drawings.html), for less than $10,000 (not counting the engine). Topics included: Reading and understanding the drawings and manuals, making rib form blocks, cutting the sheet metal rib blanks, deburring and polishing techniques, rib forming, tips, tricks and techniques, and more.
> From the Zenith website, written by the President of Zenith. Being generous with
a FWF of $5,000 for a Corvair installation and you have a plane for under
$15,000.
> Jeff, I in no way wish to insult you, Everything you have stated in the last
few letters is true as it applies to yourself and other like minded people. I
believe that you truly cannot see that it is possible for others to accomplish
this feat; I also believe that you have certain beliefs in your decisions that
would not allow you to accomplish this goal. However, others do not share your
thought process, nor should they if it is not appropriate.
>
> In closing, installing a Jabiru engine in my 601XL would have been my first choice,
along with the FWF. It really is a simple installation and very nice engine.
Nevertheless, I am not a rich man, so when I weighed the options I installed
the Corvair and have a safe plane, with a proven track record design.
>
> Yes Jeff, I do consider my 601XL a ?real? plane. Also I consider myself an average
builder when I began it, plus my first plane I built from plans I considered
myself a less then average builder, but very eager to learn as much as I
could.
>
> I have said this before to many, if you are building to own and fly a brand new
plane with superior performance over the old dilapidated rental fleets out
there, buy a QBK kit! IF you are building to save a few dollars but get a flying
plane then purchase a kit. IF your building to live an adventure of building
a plane from a flat sheet and the flying at the end is just a new bonus then
consider a plans built, it is a hell of an adventure.
>
> As for the NSI and dead stick landings, yup I can see that. I have always held
the belief that if you take any motor designed at 70hp then hop It up to 105hp
your in for a world of headaches. I like the Subaru engines, I have 5 in the
shop, but they are a harder conversion and not for the average guy like the
Corvair is. In addition, the average Corvair is outputting the hp is was designed
for. Nevertheless, each of us must make that decision based on their own investigations,
NO-ONE can tell us what to do in our own planes, but it is always
good to hear the opinions, BOTH sides of the coin and pick which truths apply
to our own personal capabilities and situations.
>
> As for Renting, Lets see my last rental, C-150 walk around. All fiberglass parts
cracked. Duct tape holding things on, oil leaks from FWF, drips of fuel from
wing tank bleeders. Paint in shameful faded condition. Windshield and side
windows glazed, fuel gauges inaccurate, one non-functional, seats ripped and hard
to move, carpet stank !
>
> GOD I wish I only found this on one plane but it is all to typical of the rental
fleet out there. I show my list of real problems I would NOT accept in my
own plane and get the response that it has just had a fresh annual a month or
two ago and is all good till next year. IT may fly but I feel far safer behind
the plane I built and did not have to use duct tape to keep parts on.
>
> Moreover, don?t forget the bragging rights as you take that pretty woman up for
her first flight in a plane you own and built. Well hopefully someone has bragged
over this, I have been married for over 20 years and forfeited this right.
> ?
> Mark Townsend
> Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
> president@can-zacaviation.com
> www.can-zacaviation.com
>
>
> --
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138138#138138
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Afterfxllc(at)aol.com |
September 23, 2007 - October 05, 2007
Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-he