Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:38 AM - Re: A413 HDA-DF strobe power supply schematics ? (Andre Beusch - Sun Switzerland Basel - Enterprise Services)
2. 07:52 AM - Ground strap (Ron Raby)
3. 08:00 AM - Re: Master disconnect for elec trim & Autopilot (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 08:04 AM - Re: Fw: new voltage regulator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:26 AM - Re: Ground strap (DWENSING@aol.com)
6. 08:27 AM - Re: Ground strap (DWENSING@aol.com)
7. 09:04 AM - Re: Ground strap (CBFLESHREN@aol.com)
8. 09:05 AM - Re: Ground strap (Ron Raby)
9. 11:33 AM - Re: Ground strap (TSaccio@aol.com)
10. 02:02 PM - Lightspeed hall effect module failure (czechsix@juno.com)
11. 05:32 PM - Re: Ground strap (N823ms@aol.com)
12. 08:55 PM - Bob - AEC70.zip (Dave Grosvenor)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: A413 HDA-DF strobe power supply schematics ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Andre Beusch - Sun Switzerland Basel -
Enterprise Services <Andre.Beusch@Sun.COM>
Charlie,
that is a good point, unfortunately, the unit has now completely failed, so it
won't help.
BTW, freezing spray is easy to get here in Switzerland.
Investing enough time I will eventually be able to repair it, even without a schematic
diagram.
A new unit is about $370 at ACS, I have already "invested" $30 for new capacitors.
Regards, Andre
> Andre,
>
> If you own a scope I may be telling you something you already know, but here's
a
> 'shade tree' troubleshooting technique. Actually it's only shade tree if you
> must use option 2 or 3.
>
> Use some type of cooling liquid on the various components to see if the
> oscillator will restart more quickly.
>
> Choices of coolant:
> 1. 'freeze spray' from an electronics supply house (hard to find due to ozone
laws)
> 2. brake & carb cleaner in an aerosol can, if it feels very cold when sprayed
> 3. regular old rubbing alcohol & a q-tip swab
>
> All the usual safety, environmental & health liability disclaimers apply here.
> You obviously don't want sparks & open flame around while you do this.
>
> Cool the entire circuit 1st & see if it will restart when cooled. If it does,
> try cooling individual components (after waiting for it to shut down on its own)
> to isolate the bad one. Remember that if you use too much, the coolant will cool
> multiple components by cooling their leads where they attach to the circuit board.
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron Raby" <ronr@advanceddesign.com>
I have qty 3 7ft long ground straps from an obselete product line. They are
made from 3/4" tinned copper braid and have lugs with 1/4" holes. good for
85 amps. Something for nothing for whoever wants one. just send me your
adress and I will mail one to you. Cleaning out my stk room.
Ron Raby
N829R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: re: Electrical System redux
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> Thanks for your advice. Like Columbo, just a few more questions, sir. I
> think that I will go with a system similar to the one you have in your
> book on Figure Z-12. I like the redundancy of 2 alternators, and with
> all electric, a 20A aux alternator will power all the avionics in my
> F1-Rocket (like an RV-4.) The reason I'm thinking a 20A vs the 8A unit
> is that the gps/nav/com draws about 7A alone on transmit. Granted, I
> don't have a lot to say, but on a dark and stormy night I think that the
> extra 2 lbs will be the least of my worries. Your thoughts?
>
> Main alternator sizing is driven by CONTINUOUS loads plus headroom
> for battery charging. The standby system needs to be configured
> for ENDURANCE meaning that when the main alternator is down,
> you want unlimited endurance with 8-10A continuous load while holding
your
> battery in reserve for approach to landing. Intermittent
> loads like transmit, trim, flaps, etc are insignificant to
> this consideration.
>
> Anyway, I
> guess that I'm concerned about an overvoltage on the main alternator,
>
> Easy to handle with rudimentary ov protection . . . see articles
> on website and discussions in the AeroElectric Connection.
>
> or a short on the main alt or main bus.
>
> How is this going to happen? It's sorta like worrying about
> wings falling off or propellers flying away. It's easy to
> fabricate your airplane in ways that make these probabilities
> too small to worry about.
>
> In this case, the first step would
> be to open the master switch. Next, close the E-bus feed, then the aux
> alt switch. As you say, the order these switches are opened and closed
> is important. Now, there is nothing to excite the field for the aux alt,
> since it feeds from the main bus, which is now unpowered, right? What
> did I miss here? Is an overvoltage or short that unlikely?
>
> yes . . . lots of folks worry about these things based
> on reading too many dark-n-stormy-night stories without
> getting the benefit of critical analysis of how things
> failed and what could be done to either make the system
> TOLERANT of the failure.
>
> ad the
> biggest problem will be the belt breaking, or an internal failure of the
> main alt resulting in the regulator not providing any field voltage to
> the main alt?
>
> . . . the most robust systems ASSUME that critical
> components are going to fail to function. The system
> becomes robust by deducing alternative modes of operation
> wherein the failure of any single component will not
> produce a situation that causes you to break a sweat.
>
> How 'bout feeding the aux alt field off the essential bus
> instead? Or even the battery bus? Further, with the battery contactor
> open and a short on the main bus, should the B lead from the aux alt go
> to the battery bus, or essential bus? Maybe I'm thinking too much, and
> these failure modes are just too remote, but I know that just about
> anything can happen in aviation.
>
> I'm not suggesting that every kind of failure you can
> imagine shouldn't be considered. They fall into three
> categories (1) redesign or select alternate component to
> reduce likelihood of failure [which still doesn't make
> it ZERO], (2) design system and mode of operation so
> that the outcome of any flight that suffers the failure
> is comfortably assured or (3) failure is so remote as
> to make further consideration unnecessary.
>
> Also, I'm thinking about using a DPDT
> switch for the aux alt and using the xtra set of terminals to switch the
> ammeter so I don't need two ammeters--what do you think?
>
> It would need to be a three pole switch. You need to switch
> ammeter leads as pairs . . . but what you propose would work.
>
> You show 4AWG
> and 2AWG from the battery contactor to the starter contactor in different
> places in your book--must be a typo. Which do you recommend--remember,
> I'm cranking an IO-540?
>
> Depends on your airplane. 2AWG is the minimum when battery and engine
> are on opposite ends of airplane. On sea-planes with large
> separations between engine and battery(s) wires have been
> as large as 00AWG (twice the cross section of 2AWG). So,
> if your battery is up front, close to firewall, 4AWG will
> be fine. If your battery is behind seats, 2AWG is recommended.
>
> Keep in mind that the power distribution diagrams are
> seeds of an array of ideas for how to configure a system
> for operation . . . EVERY detail of these drawings (such
> as wire gage) needs to be considered in light of your
> particular situation.
>
> Thanks a lot for your help with these questions,
>
> My pleasure . . .
>
> PS--Really like the line in your book about vaccuum systems being for
> cleaning carpets. Love to tell my buds that one. Happy Holidays.
>
> I've had a lot of supportive response on that one . . .
> Vacuum systems were marvelous inventions back in the
> days when fat venturi tubes on the fuselage were
> the best we could do. Remember that lots of airplanes
> had gyros a decade or more before they got batteries,
> starters and generators.
>
> Like carburetors and magnetos, vacuum pumps need to
> make way for better ways . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
> --------------------------------------------
> | People are far more willing to pay |
> | for being amused than for anything else. |
> | -Thomas Edison- |
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | RE: Master disconnect for elec trim & Autopilot |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:53 PM 12/12/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Slaughter"
><willslau@alumni.rice.edu>
>
>Bob,
>1)Do you consider the latching circuitry/momentary switch combination an
>important element of this device? I ask because my stick grip already has
>SPST push-off push-on switches installed, not momentary switches. They could
>be changed out, but that's a bit of a hassle. Presuming that most OBAM
>aircraft don't have any such master disconnect at all, does the latching
>circuitry/momentary switch combination offer a noticeable improvement over
>controlling the relay with a SPST switch?
Nope. That's the way I would do it but if you have an idea more attractive
to you, by all means . . .
>2) My interest in the FADEC electrical architecture is not just academic -
>my FADEC unit is going to be delivered in about 60 days. Unlike the Lancair
>4's however, I'm building a (hopefully) lightweight night/VFR RV-8. The
>"basic" FADEC plan is to have just a 7ah battery for the second FADEC power
>source, but this would not comfortably run the engine for fuel duration. My
>current thinking is to add the 8ah B&C alternator on the small battery
>circuit (dedicated to FADEC power supply), as this is the lightest method of
>gaining the desired endurance. Another choice, if more weight is needed aft,
>is to forego the B&C alternator and install a second 17ah battery in the
>back alongside the primary one. Looking forward to seeing your ideas on this
>matter.
Airplanes with electrically dependent engines are beginning to outstrip
what's practical to carry in terms of lead and acid. The second alternator
is a good idea but doesn't need to be dedicated to FADEC service . . .
the all electric system on a budget would work find with FADEC running
from an Aux battery. Have the SD-8 drive the Aux battery instead of
the main battery and run the E-bus from the aux battery bus too. Aux
battery would not be tied to bus for cranking. During main alternator
failure, you shut down the main battery to preserve approach to
landing reserves and run from the SD-8. If the SD-8 turns out to be too
light, then upsize to the SD-20.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: new voltage regulator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Bob
I just purchased Van's 60 amp alternator which has an internal voltage
regulator. For the previous alternator (not regulated) I installed your 14
v linear regulator. Can I take remove this regulator now that the
alternator has one?
Sure. You need to add b-lead disconnect contactor and OV protection
as shown in Figure Z-24
The one thing I like about that regulator is the yellow light that
indicates low voltage. Is there another way to trigger a low voltage light?
Yup. Working the LVWarn/AuxBatManagement module instructions now.
Probably get
them posted this weekend and put the kits up on the website.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ground strap |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DWENSING@aol.com
In a message dated 12/13/02 10:53:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ronr@advanceddesign.com writes:
> I have qty 3 7ft long ground straps from an obselete product line. They are
> made from 3/4" tinned copper braid and have lugs with 1/4" holes. good for
> 85 amps. Something for nothing for whoever wants one. just send me your
> adress and I will mail one to you. Cleaning out my stk room.
>
>
Hello Ron,
I would like one if I am not too late.
Dale Ensing
1050 Baron Road
Weddington NC 28173
Thanks
Dale
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ground strap |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DWENSING@aol.com
In a message dated 12/13/02 10:53:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ronr@advanceddesign.com writes:
> just send me your
> adress and I will mail one to you.
Ron,
I forgot to add that I will be happy to pay shipping.
Dale Ensing
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Ground strap |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: CBFLESHREN@aol.com
Hey Ron , I'd be happy to have one . I'll send ya back the shipping cast
too if ya include your address ! Thanks, Chris Fleshren
[Unable to display image]
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Ground strap |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron Raby" <ronr@advanceddesign.com>
keith,dwane and todd got the ground straps.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: <DWENSING@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground strap
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DWENSING@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 12/13/02 10:53:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> ronr@advanceddesign.com writes:
>
>
> > I have qty 3 7ft long ground straps from an obselete product line. They
are
> > made from 3/4" tinned copper braid and have lugs with 1/4" holes. good
for
> > 85 amps. Something for nothing for whoever wants one. just send me your
> > adress and I will mail one to you. Cleaning out my stk room.
> >
> >
>
> Hello Ron,
> I would like one if I am not too late.
> Dale Ensing
> 1050 Baron Road
> Weddington NC 28173
> Thanks
> Dale
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Ground strap |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TSaccio@aol.com
I'd be very interested in the ground straps, If possible send to:
Tom Saccio
4373 Maules Point Rd
Blounts Creek NC 27814
tsaccio@aol.com
Please send address and I would be glad to send you a check for the shipping
charges.
Thank you,
Tom Saccio
Message 10
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| Subject: | Lightspeed hall effect module failure |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Anyone else had, or heard of, a failure like this? I have dual crank-triggered
Lightspeeds so this failure mode won't affect me, but I thought I'd pass along
the info FYI...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing....
IAD03IA017
Incident occurred Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at LEESBURG, VA
Aircraft:CRAIG N. MOEN RV-8, registration: N184CM
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any
errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On October 22, 2002, about 1600 eastern standard time, a homebuilt RV-8, N184CM,
experienced a failure of the right ignition system during descent into Leesburg
Executive Airport (JYO), Leesburg, Virginia. The airplane landed uneventfully,
and the certificated private pilot/builder/owner was not injured. No flight
plan was filed for the flight that originated at Elizabethtown Airport, (4W1),
Elizabethtown, North Carolina, about 1400. Visual meteorological conditions
prevailed for the personal flight conducted under 14 CFR Part 91.
According to the pilot, he was on a return flight from Florida, when he was forced
to land at Elizabethtown due to weather. While in the traffic pattern the
engine backfired a few times. After landing, and while taxiing to the ramp, he
determined that the right ignition source was working intermittently.
The pilot was unable to replace the right ignition source in Elizabethtown, and
returned to Leesburg the following day. As the airplane made a normal descent
into Leesburg, the pilot discovered the right ignition source was "completely
dead."
The pilot had installed a Dual Lightspeed Plasma II ignition system with Hall Effect
Sensor Modules, which replaced both magnetos.
The pilot removed the back plate of the right Hall Effect sensor module and found
the timing rotor had fractured, and the internal face of the back plate exhibited
rotational scoring.
The pilot reported that the right Hall Effect sensor module had accrued a total
of 34 hours.
According to the manufacturer, 400 timing rotors were currently in use and there
been no reported failures.
The fractured timing rotor and back plate were sent to Safety Board's Materials
Laboratory, Washington, D.C, for further examination.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Ground strap |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N823ms@aol.com
Ron:
Are these good for a grounding strap? If they are, I could use one.
Regards,
Ed Silvanic
Lancair ES
N823MS@aol.com
1741 Roseberry Cove
Collierville, TN 38017
Thanks
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Grosvenor" <dwg@iafrica.com>
Bob, is your AEC70.zip file still available on the web somewhere? I tried
the old link but it wasn't there.
Dave
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