Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:16 AM - Re: Rotax 912S Voltage Reg Wiring, (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 09:19 AM - Re: LASAR ignition wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 10:18 AM - Re: System Planning (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 10:59 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 12/21/02 (Fergus Kyle)
5. 01:35 PM - Re: Rotax 912S Voltage Reg Wiring, (gilles.thesee)
6. 01:50 PM - Piston Aircraft PFD's (BAKEROCB@aol.com)
7. 02:32 PM - Re: LASAR ignition wiring (Roy Glass or Mary Poteet)
8. 04:17 PM - Re: LASAR ignition wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 04:50 PM - Van's lighted gages (BillRVSIX@aol.com)
10. 05:02 PM - Re: Van's lighted gages (HCRV6@aol.com)
11. 05:16 PM - Re: Van's lighted gages (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
12. 07:25 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 12/20/02 (Ronald A. Cox)
Message 1
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912S Voltage Reg Wiring, |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> >
>
>The light goes on when the voltage is below a fixed value. To date I have
>been unable to perform a measurement for this actual value.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Gilles
Gilles, I would be interested in knowing what you
find out about this light. Rotax folks don't know.
The regulator/rectifier is built for them by
a third party . . . they barely know how to hook
it up and they sure don't understand how it works.
Bob . . .
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LASAR ignition wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:15 PM 12/20/2002 -0900, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Roy Glass or Mary Poteet
><rlglass@alaska.net>
>
>How does one wire the p-leads for a LASAR ignition? I want to use toggle
>switches for each magneto and a push-button starter. The blue and green
>wires from the LASAR low voltage control harness do not appear to be
>shielded and do not go directly to a magneto, instead they go to the
>controller box. I realize that each magneto needs to be grounded to be
>"off," but how does one do this with a LASAR?
> Should I use a shielded
>p-lead wire with the primary wire attached to terminal 3 of a
>single-pole switch and the wire's shielding connected to both terminal 2
>AND to panel ground? The other end of each shielded wire would not be
>grounded to a magneto or engine ground (single-point ground, but with a
>short length of shielded wire). The other end of the primary wire would
>be spliced to the blue or green harness wire. Is there a better way? Is
>a shielded p-lead even needed with the LASAR? Should I shorten the
>non-shielded harness wires to reduce the chance of noise or leave them
>be (about 6 feet long) and just use a short length of shielded wire to
>get past the firewall? Lots of questions, and I haven't even gotten to
>the CHT part yet. Can someone direct me to a wiring diagram for the
>LASAR using toggle switches instead of a key switch?
How did you come into the hardware? No installation manual?
Bob . . .
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: System Planning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> > "Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily." .... "when you
> have two
> > competing theories which make exactly the same predictions,
> > the one that is simpler is the better."
>
>...which is exactly why I am working at convincing myself that having a
>triple bus
>(main/"e"/batt) system is an advantage over dual (main/batt) - We're
>talking about a simple
>day/nite VFR experimental where total circuits requiring shutdown number
>about 3 to 5
>(alternator, comm, xpndr, wing leveler, stereo, ?) for day ops, or about 7
>to 9 (add strobes,
>pos, panel lites, maybe landing lites if on) for nite. My RV certainly
>ain't no full-dress
>Lancair IVP (darn!) or Convair 340. Would it not be prudent to shut off
>anything on the
>E-bus if a problem is encountered before selecting "Alternate
>Feed"? ("...and just what did
>I hook to that E-bus? Best shut it all off anyway to be sure...")
>
>What started this was trying to determine appropriate placement of
>circuits to the
>appropriate bus. Much is no-brainerism- outside lights, wing lever,
>stereo, coffee pot:
>Main!! Comm, Engine monitor, EFIS, GPS, panel lights: easy-
>"E-bus"!! ...or is it? What
>about flaps?
The only times you wouldn't have flaps available at the
end of a sans alternator flight are (1) if the battery were
undersized or under-maintained and ran down completely in
the max-endurance mode or (2) you've lost the battery
contactor and the alternator along with it in which case you
need to land without flaps. Of course, flap motors, switches
and other devices in the wiring have been known to fail
too . . . this isn't JUST about where to hang things for
alternator-out operations, it's about considering EVERY
way in which a system may become unavailable to you and
having a plan to deal with it.
>Elevator trim?
Trims are very low current loads and intermittent too.
You are most likely to have a failure during trimmed flight.
Continuing to landing with the aircraft trimmed this way
shouldn't be a big deal . . . if it is a big deal, what
are your plans for when the trim motor craps? But running
trim from the e-bus doesn't represent a large energy
budget.
>Transponder?
Transponder is #1 communications tool in a minimum power mode
requiring max pilot attention. Squawk 7600 and get on with
your job. When you've got the airport in sight and comfortable
arrival is assured, call the tower and say, "Gee the radio
just came back on line . . . we're in good shape, no
emergency to declare, got information November, would
like a clearance to land."
>Fuel pump?
Does your airplane fall down when the pump isn't working,
run it from the battery bus.
> What are the important criteria to
>examine? I prefer solid rationale to "best guess", and as I am a low time
>pilot and first
>time builder, any guidance would be most appreciated! Got any simple
>rules this lowly
>grasshopper can abide by? Or better yet, just give me a simple list-
>(butcha better be able
>to tell me WHY what stuff goes WHERE!)
Tell yourself. This is an exercise in deducing all the
ways that having or not having a particular piece of equipment
will affect the flight . . . and having a plan for dealing
with it needs to be done before you put first light
under the wheels.
It's not hard if you understand the role that each piece of
equipment plays in the grand scheme of things. You didn't need
to know much about it to get through the holy-watered flight
school syllabus . . .
Battery busses are (1) for things that keep the powered airplane from
behaving
like an glider even when alternator and battery switches are OFF and (2)
for powering things that need to be operated on the ground while the
airplane
is being loaded and/or stored like clocks, courtesy lights, radio memories,
etc.
Endurance busses are for goodies needed to get from point A to point B even
if (1) the alternator has quit or (2) the main battery contactor has quit.
The e-bus isn't just for load reduction convenience, it has dual supply
paths
so that goodies powered therefrom work even when the normal feed-path has
opened up for whatever reason. The e-bus can carry MORE than minimal
goodies
for sweat-free termination of flight but (1) additional goodies NOT needed
during max-endurance flight need to have their own power switches so that
they can be independently turned and (2) e-bus alternate feed path needs
to be designed to carry a full-up e-bus load even though you don't plan to
operate it fully loaded in the max-endurance mode.
>Thanks for your patience, opinions and for just being here- can't imagine
>doing this alone-
>And the best Holiday Wishes to all on the A-list!!
No problem, that's what were ALL here for. Your decisions are based on
a collection of simple-ideas assembled in a manner that fits your
vision of a finished product. It might look complicated 'cause there's
lots of ideas . . . but taken one system at a time and dissected
down to the core concepts, it's a lot simpler than you think. We just
need to talk about it for awhile. When you are finished, the way
your airplane goes together will be based on your understanding
and needs and not upon a pile of anyone's recommendations or
pronouncements.
Bob . . .
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 12/21/02 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
> But would you call your vacuum pump a venturi? A fuel injector
> a carburetor? A wet wing tank a bladder? A rotating beacon a strobe?
> A GPS receiver an omni? Lots of features in our airplanes have
> come and gone and I think it's safe to say were not saddened to
> see many of them go.
Well, yes, I see your point. I'm not trying to put a name to
something which has gone, nor find fault with legitimate nomenclature. Let's
call a spade a spayed. It's just that the lever I mentioned is not a
throttle any more than it's a power control. But since many decades pilots
cave called it a throttle and I'm prepared to join the multitude to keep
word-smiths from changing things for personal gain. I didn't mean to include
you in that group!
> Things "essential" are those that make the airplane come down
> when they quit . . . if those are 'lectric things, then run them from
a battery bus . . . That way, when there are bad smells that might have
something to do with electrical stuff, killing ALL master switches will not
trade a bad situation for a worse one."
Quite right. I thought of putting the second 'essential' fuel
pump on the alternate battery, so that I can double the choice of power in
the event of either primary battery failure (remote I admit) or pump
breakdown. Since electrical power is vital to my engine I figured it was
more than an endurance item. Besides, I've made my placards......
"> I respectfully suggest my friend, that IS an endurance bus.> Bob .
."
It is unquestionably. You're the man.
Cheers, Ferg
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912S Voltage Reg Wiring, |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
----- Message d'origine -----
De : "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
Envoy : dimanche 22 dcembre 2002 18:14
Objet : Re: AeroElectric-List: Rotax 912S Voltage Reg Wiring,
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>
> >
> > >
> >
> >The light goes on when the voltage is below a fixed value. To date I have
> >been unable to perform a measurement for this actual value.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >Gilles
>
> Gilles, I would be interested in knowing what you
> find out about this light.
Not much at the moment, I'm afraid. Pilots and builders don't care much
about electricity, and the measurements I took are very partial.
> Rotax folks don't know.
> The regulator/rectifier is built for them by
> a third party . . . they barely know how to hook
> it up and they sure don't understand how it works.
The thing is made by DUCATI, a renowned motorcycle builder in Italy.
Unfortunately it has a poor reliability record among bikers, and many of
them replace it with Honda units. At least that is what I gathered from an
extensive research on the Internet.
And my Honda dealer friends know still less about their regulators....I'll
have a try at the DUCATI dealer.
Rotax litterature could shed some light on the operation of the rectifier/
regulator. They speak of SRCs, sense connections not to be severed,
etc...But I presume you already got the manuals ?
Something just occured to me. In case I could lay my hands on a
rectifier/regulator, are there any tests an ordinary builder could perform
on it to learn more with a 5 amps adjustable power supply ?
Any suggestions ?
Best wishes from France
Gilles
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Piston Aircraft PFD's |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BAKEROCB@aol.com
12/22/2002
A while back there were several postings on the subject of piston aircraft
PFD's (Primary Flight Displays) and the attempts to develop them, sell them,
and install them in our OBAM (Owner Built and Maintained) aircraft.
For further education on this subject I invite your attention to an article
on page 50 of the January 2003 issue of Flying magazine.
The article is entitled "Finally a PFD for Pistons" and it discusses the
Avidyne Flight Max Entegra along with some fundamental principles involved
in non rotating gyros.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LASAR ignition wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Roy Glass or Mary Poteet <rlglass@alaska.net>
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 10:15 PM 12/20/2002 -0900, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Roy Glass or Mary Poteet
> ><rlglass@alaska.net>
> >
> >How does one wire the p-leads for a LASAR ignition? I want to use toggle
> >switches for each magneto and a push-button starter. The blue and green
> >wires from the LASAR low voltage control harness do not appear to be
> >shielded and do not go directly to a magneto, instead they go to the
> >controller box. I realize that each magneto needs to be grounded to be
> >"off," but how does one do this with a LASAR?
>
> snip
>
> How did you come into the hardware? No installation manual?
>
> Bob . . .
>
The hardware came with my new Lycoming O-320 from Van's. The
instructions (service letter SL1-96) are for hacking into a certified
ship's existing ignition system and refer to splicing into the existing
p-leads which are connected to a key switch (ensuring that shielding on
the p-lead does not ground p-lead at splice and removing the jumper wire
in the key switch for the right mag). From John Huft (RV8 Pagosa
Springs, CO 28 hours flying with LASAR): "The blue and green wires are
simply grounded to turn the mags off, and left open to turn the mags on.
The magic box senses the ground and turns the mags off. There is not the
usual noise on these wires, because they are not P-leads at all. You can
cut these wires to whatever length is convienent. The cables from the
magic box to the mags are pre-prepared, and are not to be messed with."
Therefore, I plan to hook the green and blue wires to #3 terminals on
seperate single-pole switches, and a panel ground wire to each terminal
#2, and leave each terminal #1 open so that the down position is "off."
Wanting to get this stuff right because I don't like hot mags, frying
expensive gizmos, or radio noise.
roy, rv-6, firewall forward stuff, anchorage, ak
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LASAR ignition wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:29 PM 12/22/2002 -0900, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Roy Glass or Mary Poteet
><rlglass@alaska.net>
>
>
>"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
> >
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >
> > At 10:15 PM 12/20/2002 -0900, you wrote:
> > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Roy Glass or Mary Poteet
> > ><rlglass@alaska.net>
> > >
> > >How does one wire the p-leads for a LASAR ignition? I want to use toggle
> > >switches for each magneto and a push-button starter. The blue and green
> > >wires from the LASAR low voltage control harness do not appear to be
> > >shielded and do not go directly to a magneto, instead they go to the
> > >controller box. I realize that each magneto needs to be grounded to be
> > >"off," but how does one do this with a LASAR?
> >
> > snip
> >
> > How did you come into the hardware? No installation manual?
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
>
>The hardware came with my new Lycoming O-320 from Van's. The
>instructions (service letter SL1-96) are for hacking into a certified
>ship's existing ignition system and refer to splicing into the existing
>p-leads which are connected to a key switch (ensuring that shielding on
>the p-lead does not ground p-lead at splice and removing the jumper wire
>in the key switch for the right mag). From John Huft (RV8 Pagosa
>Springs, CO 28 hours flying with LASAR): "The blue and green wires are
>simply grounded to turn the mags off, and left open to turn the mags on.
>The magic box senses the ground and turns the mags off. There is not the
>usual noise on these wires, because they are not P-leads at all. You can
>cut these wires to whatever length is convienent. The cables from the
>magic box to the mags are pre-prepared, and are not to be messed with."
Found a copy of the service bulletin at
http://www.unisonindustries.com/pdf/marketing_literature/SL1-96(F).pdf
It's pretty clear that the ignition control leads are
configured so as to be transparent to the ignition switch
as to whether the ignition system is magneto or LASAR.
>Therefore, I plan to hook the green and blue wires to #3 terminals on
>seperate single-pole switches, and a panel ground wire to each terminal
>#2, and leave each terminal #1 open so that the down position is "off."
That ought to do it.
Here's some stuff I found about local aviation writer's
LASAR installation on his Cherokee 180 in Earl Long's
facility at Dead Cow International . .
http://www.avweb.com/articles/lasar1/
http://www.avweb.com/articles/lasar2/
Bob . . .
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Van's lighted gages |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BillRVSIX@aol.com
Hello just wondering if anyone new how many watts or amps the light bulbs
draws in the vans lighted instruments (Fuel presser, oil press&temp, volts
and amps, tack) there is not any info on there web page. I need to size the
wire and circuit breaker on my drawing. Second question in Van's catalog the
ammeter dose not say if it is lighted has anyone installed one and is it
lighted all the others are. Thanks
Bill Higgins
Pembroke Ma
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Van's lighted gages |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 12/22/02 4:51:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,
BillRVSIX@aol.com writes:
<< just wondering if anyone new how many watts or amps the light bulbs
draws in the vans lighted instruments (Fuel presser, oil press&temp, volts
and amps, tack) there is not any info on there web page. >>
Don't know about the others (but I'd bet they are all the same) but the
lights in Van's voltmeter draws 60 ma with from a 12 volt battery. Should be
pretty close to 50 ma at 14 volts. I checked the lights in several other
manufacturers instruments and they also drew 50 to 60 ma at 12 volts. Hope
this helps.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, electrical (still)
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Van's lighted gages |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
The Amp Gauge is lighted.
Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: <BillRVSIX@aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Van's lighted gages
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BillRVSIX@aol.com
>
> . Second question in Van's catalog the
> ammeter dose not say if it is lighted has anyone installed one and is it
> lighted all the others are. Thanks
>
> Bill Higgins
> Pembroke Ma
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 12/20/02 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald A. Cox" <racox@ix.netcom.com>
Why, on an airplane like an RV, or Glasair, etc., would one need a flap
indicator???
You can look out the window and see the flaps, can't you? Another thing I'd
think one could easily do without, without losing anything.
A couple of little lines on the flap at various extension points where the
flaps extend from the trailing edge, and you're all set.
I can't think of a situation where the precise flap setting is of any real
use to the pilot. You're either "flaps up" or "some flaps", "more flaps"
and "all flaps", right?
More K.I.S.S. it would seem to me.
Ron
------------------------------
Time: 10:34:44 AM PST US
From: "larry OKeefe" <okeefel@adelphia.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ACS 2002 Eng Mon
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "larry OKeefe"
<okeefel@adelphia.net>
anyone have any data and/or reliability on this new Advanced Control System
ACS
2002 Eng Monitoring Sys?
I saw the article in Van's RVator, 5th issue, 2002, and it seems like an
interesting
unit, even has flaps position indicator.
do not archive.
Larry OKeefe,RV7A, wings
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|