Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:37 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 12/20/02 (Dennis O'Connor)
2. 07:03 AM - Re: System Planning (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:08 AM - Firewall Penetrations (Jack Haviland)
4. 07:46 AM - Re: Firewall Penetrations (Paul Wilson)
5. 07:56 AM - Re: Firewall Penetrations (Jerzy Krasinski)
6. 11:05 AM - Flap indicator (Fred Stucklen)
7. 11:20 AM - Re: Firewall Penetrations (CBFLESHREN@aol.com)
8. 07:02 PM - Unison Help (BAKEROCB@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 12/20/02 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor@chartermi.net>
On my twin I have a flaps indicator... I don't use it... Once the gear is
extended on downwind I give a short push on the flap handle <done by pitch
change feel> to get about 10 degrees... On base leg the flap may or may not
be blipped depending on the wind and how it looks ... On final, once that
magic sight picture appears, the handle is held down until the flaps quit
moving... If I can see I will look left just to verify they are full down...
Now on some of the fast glass, warbirds, etc., the flaps are flown by the
numbers... These are different birds than you and I fly...
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronald A. Cox" <racox@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 12/20/02
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald A. Cox"
<racox@ix.netcom.com>
>
> Why, on an airplane like an RV, or Glasair, etc., would one need a flap
> indicator???
>
> You can look out the window and see the flaps, can't you? Another thing
I'd
> think one could easily do without, without losing anything.
>
> A couple of little lines on the flap at various extension points where the
> flaps extend from the trailing edge, and you're all set.
>
> I can't think of a situation where the precise flap setting is of any real
> use to the pilot. You're either "flaps up" or "some flaps", "more flaps"
> and "all flaps", right?
>
> More K.I.S.S. it would seem to me.
>
> Ron
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Time: 10:34:44 AM PST US
> From: "larry OKeefe" <okeefel@adelphia.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: ACS 2002 Eng Mon
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "larry OKeefe"
> <okeefel@adelphia.net>
>
> anyone have any data and/or reliability on this new Advanced Control
System
> ACS
> 2002 Eng Monitoring Sys?
> I saw the article in Van's RVator, 5th issue, 2002, and it seems like an
> interesting
> unit, even has flaps position indicator.
> do not archive.
> Larry OKeefe,RV7A, wings
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: System Planning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:09 AM 12/20/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> > I'll be publishing drawings with the next revision for
> > adding a battery relay, a sort of mini-contactor
> > at the battery to handle e-bus loads in special cases.
>
>Bob, I'm curious why somebody would want/need that. Sounds like just an
>additional point of failure...when that realy goes, would the battery bus
>and/or e-bus be rendered useless? I'm just getting my feet wet here, so go
>easy on me... 8
No, only ONE of TWO feeds to the e-bus would be affected.
The normal feed is still intact. Adding the relay does
increase complexity in control of the alternate feed path
(1) One switch, one fuse, two pieces of wire versus (2) a
switch, fuse, diode, relay and four pieces of wire. The relay
is not known for stellar reliability but the one we need
is very lightly stressed an more robust than products we
grew up with.
Plastic airplanes are a bit less worrisome . . .
even under crash loads and deformations, the likelihood
of faulting wires to ground is low. Metal airplanes
are not so benign in this regard. In my metal airplane, an
e-bus alternate feed path fused at greater than 5A
would be relay controlled at the battery bus . . .
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Firewall Penetrations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jack Haviland <jgh@iavbbs.com>
The label on the 3M fire stop caulk available in the electrical
department of Home Depot stores indicates it is water based material
that remains flexible and expands when subjected to heat. Sounds great
for immobilizing electrical cables where they pass through firewall
grommets but silicone based, high temperature Permatex RTV is reported
to have similar flexibility and heat resistance properties. Is there a
safety related reason for choosing one over the other? Has anybody
found measured data on the flame resistance of the two alternatives?
I did not find it on the company websites.
Is there a safety related reason for choosing rubber grommets over
plastic snap-in bushings? The latter would seem to offer better
mechanical protection to the cable. Has anybody found asbestos based
grommets?
Finally, if the cable is already protected by a firewall grommet and
some type of flexible "immobilizing caulk", does the addition of a
stainless fire shield (with another hole in it that the cable must pass
through and be isolated from) provide significant added protection?
Jack H.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall Penetrations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Wilson <pwilson@climber.org>
Jack,
I happened to be fabricating the Bingellis firewall grommets when
this thread started and was frustrated trying to find the asbestos
material. What I am using scrap are Fiberfrax disks in layers leaving
the SS foil in place as further protection to accomplish the same
purpose. I am going to use plain old rubber grommets for mechanical
protection at the firewall penetration backed up with red silicone
for an air tight seal.
It appears to be over-kill based on the planes I have examined
around the airport. But My fix should give significant fire
protection.
Paul
===========
At 10:07 AM -0500 12/23/02, Jack Haviland wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jack Haviland <jgh@iavbbs.com>
>
>The label on the 3M fire stop caulk available in the electrical
>department of Home Depot stores indicates it is water based material
>that remains flexible and expands when subjected to heat. Sounds great
>for immobilizing electrical cables where they pass through firewall
>grommets but silicone based, high temperature Permatex RTV is reported
>to have similar flexibility and heat resistance properties. Is there a
>safety related reason for choosing one over the other? Has anybody
>found measured data on the flame resistance of the two alternatives?
>I did not find it on the company websites.
>
>Is there a safety related reason for choosing rubber grommets over
>plastic snap-in bushings? The latter would seem to offer better
>mechanical protection to the cable. Has anybody found asbestos based
>grommets?
>
>Finally, if the cable is already protected by a firewall grommet and
>some type of flexible "immobilizing caulk", does the addition of a
>stainless fire shield (with another hole in it that the cable must pass
>through and be isolated from) provide significant added protection?
>
>Jack H.
--
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall Penetrations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski <krasins@ceat.okstate.edu>
Chris,
You are right. I should have said "silicone RTV rubber" rather than
"RTV rubber".
Most of these RTV silicones would be fine for the application, but to
make sure I would suggest to make a test with a torch. If it melts and
burns smoking as most of carbon based rubbers will do, I would not
consider it good. If it decomposes without melting, packing the tube
with white powdery stuff, it should be fine.
One possible problem with most popular RTV silicones is that during
curing they release corrosive acetic acid. That should not affect
stainless steel and a high quality wire insulation like teflon, but
might start corrosion on open surfaces of corrosion nonresistant metals
in contact with the stuff or even around. However, there are many
versions of RTV silicones that are non corrosive.
Jerzy
CBFLESHREN@aol.com wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: CBFLESHREN@aol.com
>
> " RTV is a silicone rubber. At high temperature it decomposes
>into quartz powder,"
>
> Not trying to step on toes here but I believe "RTV" (Room Temperature
>Vulcanizing) is simply a means by which many compositions "set" or "cure".
>Granted there are "silicone rubbers" that "set" in this fashion. However,
>most of the MANY different types of caulks (latex etc) at the hardware stores
>do too ! Lastly, clearly not all of these would result in "quartz" if burned
>. Just felt like clarifying- Happy Holidays to all . Chris
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1@cox.net>
Time: 07:25:33 PM PST US
From: "Ronald A. Cox" <racox@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 12/20/02
Listers,
The concept of marking the inboard edge of the ailerons with flap position settings
works quite well. When i changed from mechanical flaps to electric flaps
on my RV-6A, I marked the ailerons before I installed the electric system (
I wanted to make sure that the positions were the same...). It worked wel for
the nine years I flew the plane, and is still working out OK for the new owner..
When people ask me what I do when it gets dark outside and I caouldn't see
the markings, I tell them, that if you really need to know where the flaps are
after dark, you sholdn't be flying after dark..... Fly often, and know your
aircrafts flying characteristics. If you really know them, you don't need to
know where the flaps are positioned.....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A
Over 2000 hours of safe flying.....
Working to finish the new RV-6A by this summer....
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald A. Cox" <racox@ix.netcom.com>
Why, on an airplane like an RV, or Glasair, etc., would one need a flap
indicator???
You can look out the window and see the flaps, can't you? Another thing
I'd
think one could easily do without, without losing anything.
A couple of little lines on the flap at various extension points where the
flaps extend from the trailing edge, and you're all set.
I can't think of a situation where the precise flap setting is of any real
use to the pilot. You're either "flaps up" or "some flaps", "more flaps"
and "all flaps", right?
More K.I.S.S. it would seem to me.
Ron
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall Penetrations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: CBFLESHREN@aol.com
Sounds Great ! Chris
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BAKEROCB@aol.com
In a message dated 12/23/2002 2:56:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: Roy Glass or Mary Poteet
<rlglass@alaska.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LASAR ignition wiring
<<The hardware came with my new Lycoming O-320 from Van's. The
instructions (service letter SL1-96) are for hacking into a certified
ship's existing ignition system and refer to splicing into the existing
p-leads which are connected to a key switch.....skip......>>
12/23/2002
Hello Roy, Sounds like deja vu all over again. I bought a Unison SlickStart
starting vibrator for my TCM IO-240 B9B powered KIS TR-1. Every bit of
information in the Unison installation instruction (SL2-96) was couched in
terms of "take an existing ignition system like this and modify it like so".
If one didn't have an existing system to modify or to reverse engineer so
that one could understand how the SlickStart unit functioned there was
absolutely no way to know how to wire it.
I managed to get some initial erroneous information from Unison (probably
provided by some marketing type) and wired my system up wrong. Being a
skeptical type I continued to probe Unison and finally got what seems correct
(and totally different) wiring information.
Let me suggest two sources within Unison that may be of further help to you
and others. One is Adam Mohler, Unison GA representative. He can be reached
at 904-739-4068 or at <<mohler_ad@unisonindustries.com>>. The other is Harry
Fenton. Try reaching him at 815-965-4700. At one time his email was
<<harry@unisonindustries.com>>
Harry has an excellent article in the November 2002 issue of Aircraft
Maintenance Technology magazine on installing the SlickStart. He may have
written something similar for the Lasar system.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
PS: Unison faithfully sends me a bill for $30 every year to renew my
subscription to the Unison Industries F-1100 Master Service Manual. They
always cash my check, but the letter that I include with the check that asks
questions like "When are you going to include information on a fielded item
that is not yet in your manual?" or point out that there are missing part
numbers and erroneous information in the current manual never gets a response.
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