Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:03 AM - toggle spacing (Robert Dickson)
2. 06:28 AM - A Question to End the Holiday Doldrums (Reid)
3. 06:42 AM - Re: A Question to End the Holiday Doldrums (Randy Pflanzer)
4. 06:50 AM - Airframe ground (Ed Kramer)
5. 06:55 AM - Re: A Question to End the Holiday Doldrums (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
6. 06:59 AM - Re: A Question to End the Holiday Doldrums (David Swartzendruber)
7. 07:02 AM - Re: A Question to End the Holiday Doldrums (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
8. 07:31 AM - Re: toggle spacing (Larry Bowen)
9. 08:03 AM - Re: A Question to End the Holiday Doldrums (Charlie and Tupper England)
10. 08:08 AM - Re: toggle spacing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 08:23 AM - Over-voltage protection (again) (Gary Casey)
12. 08:41 AM - Re: Airframe ground (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 08:45 AM - Re: toggle spacing (Robert Dickson)
14. 09:40 AM - Re: toggle spacing (CBFLESHREN@aol.com)
15. 02:36 PM - SD-20 (Walter Casey)
16. 05:34 PM - GPS Antennas (Whollo80@aol.com)
17. 05:48 PM - Re: GPS Antennas (BobsV35B@aol.com)
18. 06:08 PM - Re: GPS Antennas (Whollo80@aol.com)
19. 07:01 PM - Re: GPS Antennas (Michel Therrien)
20. 08:19 PM - Checking the crowbar OV module (Ed Perry)
21. 09:09 PM - Re: Checking the crowbar OV module (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
22. 09:13 PM - Re: SD-20 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 09:14 PM - Re: SD-20 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 09:34 PM - OV regulatro (Robert Kellar)
25. 10:43 PM - Re: SD-20 (Walter Casey)
26. 11:06 PM - Recombinant Gas Batteries (Walter Casey)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson" <robert@thenews-journal.com>
What are you folks using for toggle switch spacing on your panels? Also,
anyone want to comment on how and why they grouped their switches?
I'm using two toggles for mags/start and am generally following Z-11.
After a very quiet week on this list, maybe this will get some chatter going
and I can learn something I really need to know.
TIA for your thoughts.
Robert Dicksom
RV-6A electrical
Message 2
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| Subject: | A Question to End the Holiday Doldrums |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Reid" <Reid@Siebert.com>
If I wire a new 12-volt, 300-cranking amp battery
in series with a new 12-volt, 1000-cranking amp battery,
how many 24-volt cranking amps will be available for use?
Reid Siebert
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: A Question to End the Holiday Doldrums |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Randy Pflanzer <F1Rocket@comcast.net>
Uh....enough so that the prop will spin fast enough for powered flight
with the ignition off???
Sure puts my 17 AH battery to shame.
Randy
(F1 Rocket #95)
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/
----- Original Message -----
From: Reid <Reid@Siebert.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: A Question to End the Holiday Doldrums
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Reid" <Reid@Siebert.com>
>
>
> If I wire a new 12-volt, 300-cranking amp battery
> in series with a new 12-volt, 1000-cranking amp battery,
> how many 24-volt cranking amps will be available for use?
>
> Reid Siebert
>
>
> _-
>
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> _-
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Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" <edkramer@prodigy.net>
List,
I have a question. My original plan was to use the airframe as the ground for
things such as the strobe power supply, nav-lights ect. I've been told radio
noise can be eliminated by running a ground wire directly from the unit to the
firewall. If this is true what kind of a ground wire is used? (just insulated
or must it be shielded).
Thanks!
Ed Kramer
West Seneca, NY
Zenith CH 701
edkramer@prodigy.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: A Question to End the Holiday Doldrums |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
In a message dated 12/30/2002 9:28:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Reid@Siebert.com writes:
>
> If I wire a new 12-volt, 300-cranking amp battery
> in series with a new 12-volt, 1000-cranking amp battery,
> how many 24-volt cranking amps will be available for use?
>
> Reid Siebert
>
>
Reid, As you state: "in series" you will have only the Max capacity of the
smaller battery. You will have 300 amps available at 24 volts. After that,
the voltage will fall to something far less than 24 V and nearly 12 V for the
duration of the capacity of the 1000 amp battery.
This configuration will likely destroy the 300 amp battery. In series, once
the 300 amp battery's charge is depleted, the load current of the larger
battery will try to reverse charge the depleted battery. Not good at all!
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Outback, (out back in the garage)
Message 6
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| Subject: | A Question to End the Holiday Doldrums |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
I believe your 17AH battery can deliver 300 cranking amps as well. The
two batteries in series will be limited by the 300 cranking amp battery,
so your 17AH battery has nothing to be ashamed of.
David Swartzendruber
Wichita
>
> Uh....enough so that the prop will spin fast enough for powered flight
> with the ignition off???
>
> Sure puts my 17 AH battery to shame.
>
> Randy
> (F1 Rocket #95)
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/
> >
> > If I wire a new 12-volt, 300-cranking amp battery
> > in series with a new 12-volt, 1000-cranking amp battery,
> > how many 24-volt cranking amps will be available for use?
> >
> > Reid Siebert
> >
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: A Question to End the Holiday Doldrums |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
In a message dated 12/30/2002 9:28:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Reid@Siebert.com writes:
>
> If I wire a new 12-volt, 300-cranking amp battery
> in series with a new 12-volt, 1000-cranking amp battery,
> how many 24-volt cranking amps will be available for use?
>
> Reid Siebert
>
>
Extreme caution should be exercised when charging or discharging any
batteries in series! Even innocent child's toys can catch fire by mixing
"drycell" batteries of different chemistry/capacity/characteristics!
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Outback, (out back in the garage)
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I drilled mine the other day...0.8 inches on center.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Robert Dickson
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 9:02 AM
> To: Aeroelectric List
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: toggle spacing
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson"
> --> <robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
> What are you folks using for toggle switch spacing on your
> panels? Also,
> anyone want to comment on how and why they grouped their switches?
>
> I'm using two toggles for mags/start and am generally following Z-11.
>
> After a very quiet week on this list, maybe this will get
> some chatter going and I can learn something I really need to know.
>
> TIA for your thoughts.
>
> Robert Dicksom
> RV-6A electrical
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: A Question to End the Holiday Doldrums |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
Reid wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Reid" <Reid@Siebert.com>
>
>
> If I wire a new 12-volt, 300-cranking amp battery
> in series with a new 12-volt, 1000-cranking amp battery,
> how many 24-volt cranking amps will be available for use?
>
> Reid Siebert
>
300
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: toggle spacing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:01 AM 12/30/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson"
><robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
>What are you folks using for toggle switch spacing on your panels? Also,
>anyone want to comment on how and why they grouped their switches?
>
>I'm using two toggles for mags/start and am generally following Z-11.
>
>After a very quiet week on this list, maybe this will get some chatter going
>and I can learn something I really need to know.
I use .8" spacing for the switches we sell. I've published
some exemplar layouts for switch panels at
http://216.55.140.222/temp//Switches.pdf
If the switches go in a single row, I try to organize
switches used pre/post-flight separate from those used
in flight. Two row switch panels might put the engine
and DC power switches above those used for lighting
and other functions likely to be used en route.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Over-voltage protection (again) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
In reading all the submissions about over-voltage protection I have come up
with a question. It is based on the assumption that the only failure that
can cause an over-voltage condition is that of the voltage regulator,
assuming that the regulator is external or otherwise not internally powered.
The typical over-voltage protection circuit is in series with the regulator
and disconnects the power feed to the field. I'm assuming that the
protection device could be on either side of the regulator. Question: Why
not just install a second regulator in series with the first? The second
one could be adjusted to a somewhat higher voltage than the first one and
could be designed to provide an output for a warning light if it came on
line. Therefore, a (primary) regulator failure would result in a system
voltage of, say, 15 volts instead of 14 and a warning indicator. Nothing
would have to be done by the pilot and he could complete his flight without
worry of running out of battery. This would seem like a more elegant
solution than to just kill the alternator if the voltage regulator fails,
which only replaces one emergency with another less urgent one.
Gary Casey
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Airframe ground |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:49 AM 12/30/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" <edkramer@prodigy.net>
>
>List,
> I have a question. My original plan was to use the airframe as the
> ground for things such as the strobe power supply, nav-lights ect. I've
> been told radio noise can be eliminated by running a ground wire directly
> from the unit to the firewall. If this is true what kind of a ground wire
> is used? (just insulated or must it be shielded).
You use the same wire to "ground" things as you use
to "power" things . . . shielded wire is used only
when the installation instructions for the device
call for it.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: toggle spacing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson" <robert@thenews-journal.com>
Bob
Thanks! that's EXACTLY what I was looking for.
Robert Dickson
RV-6A electrical
do not archive
----------
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: toggle spacing
>Date: Mon, Dec 30, 2002, 11:07 AM
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 09:01 AM 12/30/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson"
>><robert@thenews-journal.com>
>>
>>What are you folks using for toggle switch spacing on your panels? Also,
>>anyone want to comment on how and why they grouped their switches?
>>
>>I'm using two toggles for mags/start and am generally following Z-11.
>>
>>After a very quiet week on this list, maybe this will get some chatter going
>>and I can learn something I really need to know.
>
> I use .8" spacing for the switches we sell. I've published
> some exemplar layouts for switch panels at
>
> http://216.55.140.222/temp//Switches.pdf
>
> If the switches go in a single row, I try to organize
> switches used pre/post-flight separate from those used
> in flight. Two row switch panels might put the engine
> and DC power switches above those used for lighting
> and other functions likely to be used en route.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: toggle spacing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: CBFLESHREN@aol.com
In a message dated 12/30/2002 9:04:02 AM Eastern Standard Time,
robert@thenews-journal.com writes:
> >What are you folks using for toggle switch spacing on your panels?
Hi Robert, assuming you are not in dire need of EVERY square millimeter
of your panel space, the most relevant affect dictating minimum spacing
(since you're not building a Certificated A/C) on the front of the panel is
your finger size/length. Unless you want to make the concerted effort of
using only the tip of your index finger & thumb, locate your switches at
least far enough apart so you can comfortably cycle the switches without
cycling it's neighbor . You can "slot" a piece of scrap material, install
three switches in the slot, chuck it up in your vice & cycle the middle
switch in a comfortable manner. Try left & right hands. At least a few hairs
greater distance than it takes to not disturb switches 1 and 3 is your
minimum clearance. Obviously switch type can limit spacing behind the panel
(i.e. a typical 4 pole toggle switch is 1.5" wide). Rocker type switches are
typically smaller & selected with just a finger tip so they are often the
choice for tighter spacing. Wire routing & the way the wires attach to the
switch can also influence spacing. At a minimum the switches should never
touch each other behind the panel.
> Also, anyone want to comment on how and why they grouped their
switches?
In turbulence you don't want to have to actually read what a given switch's
function is. If you have 12 similar switches in a row , you will have a hard
time actually counting "5" from either end. So! Grouping "choices" are only
limited by your imagination. Landing, taxi, strobe and nav (position) lights
would be a logical "group" separated from a continuing "row" by at least one
switch hole spacing being blank. Longer "rows" of switches are dealt with by
occasionally installing a switch with a differently designed lever or any one
of a variety switch guards or at least a different color. This way you can
quickly count 2 from the right of "this" switch or 3 from the left of that
switch . Obviously never include batt master or buss switches or fuel boost
or transfer pump switches where they could possibly be confused with anything
else !
I have not checked lately but I'm sure Bob addresses all of this somewhere
in the "Connection" publication. I think that's where I learned it ! Hope my
2 cent's worth is helpful .
Good luck Robert & Happy New Year ! Chris Fleshren
Message 15
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey <mikec@caseyspm.com>
On page 17-9 of "Electrical System Reliability" Bob recommends an SD-20
20A backup alternator.
I can't find this alternator on the B&C web site.
Is this a discontinued item or what?
Best wishes
Walter
********************************************
* Walter Casey
*
* 6528 S. Oneida Ct. *
* Englewood, CO 80110-4617 USA *
* *
* Phone (303) 771-0815 *
* FAX (303) 220-1477 *
* eMail mikec@caseyspm.com *
********************************************
Message 16
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Whollo80@aol.com
I'm using a Garmin 90 and sometimes lose coverage on cloudy days. Would using
one of the externally mounted antennas improve my coverage? Everything that I
see in Aircraft Spruce is a little bit on the expensive side. Any thoughts?
Bill
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: GPS Antennas |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 12/30/02 7:36:06 PM Central Standard Time,
Whollo80@aol.com writes:
> I'm using a Garmin 90 and sometimes lose coverage on cloudy days. Would
> using
> one of the externally mounted antennas improve my coverage? Everything that
> I
> see in Aircraft Spruce is a little bit on the expensive side. Any thoughts?
Good Evening Bill,
The clouds should have absolutely nothing to do with your GPS coverage.
However, getting a full view of the sky is always a good idea. The 90 was a
good unit in it's day and still has the capability of providing useful
information, but the technology curve is still rising quite steeply on such
equipment. You might consider upgrading to something like the Garmin 196.
Any remote antenna that will allow a better view of the sky will make the 90
work a bit better. I don't know whether an active antenna will help with the
90 or not, but why don't you call the Garmin service number? I have found
them to be easy to get hold of and full of good information.
I added an active antenna for use with my Trimble 2000 Approach Plus. That
old antique had it's performance noticeably improved by the addition.
Look up Garmin at: <A HREF="www.garmin.com">www.garmin.com
They have data there as to the phone numbers to call.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: GPS Antennas |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Whollo80@aol.com
Thanks Bob, like always you are a great help.
Bill
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: GPS Antennas |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I bought a remote amplified antenna from GPSGeek on
eBay. 20$ and it performs as well as my other remote
Garmin amplified antenna (I have one in each car).
Michel
--- BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
> BobsV35B@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 12/30/02 7:36:06 PM Central
> Standard Time,
> Whollo80@aol.com writes:
>
> > I'm using a Garmin 90 and sometimes lose coverage
> on cloudy days. Would
> > using
> > one of the externally mounted antennas improve my
> coverage? Everything that
> > I
> > see in Aircraft Spruce is a little bit on the
> expensive side. Any thoughts?
>
> Good Evening Bill,
>
> The clouds should have absolutely nothing to do with
> your GPS coverage.
> However, getting a full view of the sky is always a
> good idea. The 90 was a
> good unit in it's day and still has the capability
> of providing useful
> information, but the technology curve is still
> rising quite steeply on such
> equipment. You might consider upgrading to something
> like the Garmin 196.
>
> Any remote antenna that will allow a better view of
> the sky will make the 90
> work a bit better. I don't know whether an active
> antenna will help with the
> 90 or not, but why don't you call the Garmin service
> number? I have found
> them to be easy to get hold of and full of good
> information.
>
> I added an active antenna for use with my Trimble
> 2000 Approach Plus. That
> old antique had it's performance noticeably improved
> by the addition.
>
> Look up Garmin at: <A
> HREF="www.garmin.com">www.garmin.com
>
> They have data there as to the phone numbers to
> call.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> -
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
>
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>
>
>
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
Message 20
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| Subject: | Checking the crowbar OV module |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Perry" <eperry@san.rr.com>
Is there any convenient way to check the OV module for proper operation?
Ed Perry
eperry@san.rr.com
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Checking the crowbar OV module |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:21 PM 12/30/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Perry" <eperry@san.rr.com>
>
>Is there any convenient way to check the OV module for proper operation?
>Ed Perry
>eperry@san.rr.com
See notes section of
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/crowbar.pdf
Bob . . .
Message 22
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:34 PM 12/30/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey <mikec@caseyspm.com>
>
>On page 17-9 of "Electrical System Reliability" Bob recommends an SD-20
>20A backup alternator.
>I can't find this alternator on the B&C web site.
>Is this a discontinued item or what?
>Best wishes
>Walter
Try
http://www.bandcspecialty.com/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?2X358218
Bob . . .
Message 23
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:34 PM 12/30/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey <mikec@caseyspm.com>
>
>On page 17-9 of "Electrical System Reliability" Bob recommends an SD-20
>20A backup alternator.
>I can't find this alternator on the B&C web site.
>Is this a discontinued item or what?
>Best wishes
>Walter
On other pages I show an SD-8 which is considerably less
expensive and lighter . . . are you sure you NEED one
as big as the SD-20?
Bob . . .
Message 24
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Kellar" <rkellar@attbi.com>
Thank you for you quick response. I missed the part about the breaker in
the instructions. I'll install a breaker and fly some more and then let you
know here on the list. Re: Voltage before the fuse blows...I am too busy
flying the takeoff to notice. I'll bring a passenger to monitor this value.
Bob Kellar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: 10179 Kellar
> At 10:51 PM 12/29/2002 -0800, you wrote:
> >Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
> >Robert Kellar (rkellar@attbi.com) on Sunday, December 29, 2002 at
22:51:40
>
> >
> >Sunday, December 29, 2002
> >
> >Robert Kellar
> >
> >,
> >Email: rkellar@attbi.com
> >Comments/Questions: I am using your voltage regulator LR3B-14 in my
> >RV6. Purchased 2 years ago. Worked wonderfully until 2 months ago. On
> >multiple occasions the 5A fuse from the bus to the master switch to
> >terminal 6 blows.
>
> This fuse should have been a circuit breaker . . . all of our
> installation drawings show a breaker used with any form of
> crowbar overvoltage protection.
>
> > When not blown the voltage regulator functions perfectly 20+ amps
> > charge then cycles down to less than 5 amps for flight. Usually the
fuse
> > lasts for 1 hr or less and then with the next flight, as I take off the
> > fuse will blow and the blinking warning light comes on. Replace the
fuse
> > and I can fly again for awhile. I have inspected everything in the
panel,
> > wires, connections etc looking for a possible short or failure. My
> > question is...Is there anything internal to the unit that could cause
> > this intermittent failure? If not, I will continue my investigation of
> > all the wire out to the alternator looking for a possible intermittent
short.
>
> Do you have a voltmeter in the airplane? What does it read
> just before the ov system trips?
>
> > Thank you for your response and all the help provided on the net and
in
> > your electical manual and diagrams.
>
> My pleasure sir.
>
> I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
> to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
> share the information with as many folks as possible.
> You can join at . . .
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |---------------------------------------------------|
> | A lie can travel half way around the world while |
> | the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
> | -Mark Twain- |
> |---------------------------------------------------|
>
Message 25
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey <mikec@caseyspm.com>
Thanks Bob,
No I am not sure. I have just started investigating.
Best wishes,
Walter
On Monday, December 30, 2002, at 10:12 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 03:34 PM 12/30/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey
>> <mikec@caseyspm.com>
>>
>> On page 17-9 of "Electrical System Reliability" Bob recommends an
>> SD-20
>> 20A backup alternator.
>> I can't find this alternator on the B&C web site.
>> Is this a discontinued item or what?
>> Best wishes
>> Walter
>
> On other pages I show an SD-8 which is considerably less
> expensive and lighter . . . are you sure you NEED one
> as big as the SD-20?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Recombinant Gas Batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey <mikec@caseyspm.com>
In the literature Bob appears to recommend the RG batteries. The
problem is that I have searched both B&C and AircraftSpruce but can't
find the RG batteries.
Please help.
Walter
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