Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:04 AM - Fuse size vs Breaker size (Billie Lamb)
2. 07:53 AM - two stage blower (John Slade)
3. 08:19 AM - Re: two stage blower (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
4. 08:22 AM - Re: two stage blower (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
5. 08:24 AM - Re: two stage blower (John Rourke)
6. 08:33 AM - Re: two stage blower (CozyGirrrl@aol.com)
7. 09:19 AM - Re: two stage blower (Neil Clayton)
8. 09:27 AM - Re: GPS Antennas (David Lundquist)
9. 09:32 AM - Re: Alternator weights (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 09:44 AM - Re: OV protection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 09:52 AM - Re: Fuse size vs Breaker size (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 09:52 AM - Re: Alternator weights (Alex Peterson)
13. 09:53 AM - Re: two stage blower (John Slade)
14. 10:00 AM - Re: two stage blower (John Slade)
15. 10:06 AM - Re: Alternator weights (Paul Wilson)
16. 10:10 AM - Re: Fuse size vs Breaker size (Billie Lamb)
17. 10:13 AM - Alternator rating (Walter Casey)
18. 10:17 AM - Re: second alternator (Paul Wilson)
19. 10:45 AM - Re: Alternator rating (Dan Checkoway)
20. 11:57 AM - Re: Alternator rating (Walter Casey)
21. 12:18 PM - L-60 Alternator rating (Walter Casey)
22. 12:28 PM - Re: two stage blower (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 12:32 PM - Re: two stage blower (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 12:34 PM - Re: two stage blower (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 12:41 PM - Re: Alternator rating (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 12:44 PM - Re: two stage blower (John Slade)
27. 12:50 PM - Re: two stage blower (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
28. 12:55 PM - Re: Alternator weights (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
29. 01:08 PM - Monster battery for Walter M601 . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
30. 01:08 PM - Monster battery for Walter M601 . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
31. 01:16 PM - Re: cockpit backup batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
32. 01:24 PM - Re: two stage blower (Sam Buchanan)
33. 01:36 PM - Re: Monster battery for Walter M601 . . . (John Rourke)
34. 02:17 PM - Lightweight Starters (DHPHKH@aol.com)
35. 03:43 PM - Re: L-60 Alternator rating (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
36. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: second alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
37. 03:44 PM - Re: two stage blower (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
38. 03:47 PM - Re: Monster battery for Walter M601 . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
39. 04:40 PM - Perm magnet alternator & fuel pump trouble (Sam Hoskins)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Fuse size vs Breaker size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Billie Lamb" <N254BL@cfl.rr.com>
I thought I had seen this somewhere but can't find it in the book. When replacing
breakers with fuses do you replace with the same size?
My electronic ignition calls for a 3A resettable breaker. Is that the fuse size
I would use or would I use a higher rating because the breakers are slower to
operate?
Is there a rule of thumb to this sizing??
Bill Lamb
Message 2
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| Subject: | two stage blower |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
Happy New Year, Bob and all.
I have a cabin heat blower fan which draws 4.9 amps at 13v. I'd like to
create a "slow" switch setting where it would run at about half speed. Whats
the best way to do this? Put a resistor in the circuit for the slow speed?
What size resistor?
Regards,
John Slade
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: two stage blower |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
In a message dated 1/1/2003 10:53:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
sladerj@bellsouth.net writes:
> Happy New Year, Bob and all.
>
> I have a cabin heat blower fan which draws 4.9 amps at 13v. I'd like to
> create a "slow" switch setting where it would run at about half speed.
> Whats
> the best way to do this? Put a resistor in the circuit for the slow speed?
> What size resistor?
> Regards,
> John Slade
>
>
John, Go to the auto salvage yard and rob a wreck for it's blower motor speed
dropping resistor assembly to experiment with. I just put a new one in my
neighbor's Toyota truck last month. I paid about $20 or $30 for it new.
This is the simplest and cheapest way out but it is also the most wasteful of
your electrical power. The resistor unit needs to be in the air stream to
keep it cool because it does get hot!
The really cool way is to wire in a variable DC to DC converter type of power
supply.
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Outback, (out back in the garage)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: two stage blower |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
Look at: <A HREF="http://www.solorb.com/elect/solarcirc/">http://www.solorb.com/elect/solarcirc/
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Outback, (out back in the garage)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: two stage blower |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
For DC fans it usually is a fairly linear relationship between current
and RPM, but not always... if it is, though, you can figure your fan has
a resistance of about 2.65 ohms (13/4.9); so a 2.65 ohm resistor in
series with the fan would cut the current in half.
Next you have to figure wattage; I
2*R is the equation, or 15.9 watts
(2.45*2.45*2.65). You generally want to oversize by at least 50-100%, so
you'd want a 25-30 watt resistor. Since you probably aren't going to
find 2.65 ohm resistors, you could put two 5-Ohm resistors in parallel
together (for 2.5 ohms), in series with the fan. So, two minimum 10-watt
(but preferably 15 or 20-watt) sandblock resistors from Radio Shack
ought to do the trick. They'll get hot; maybe mount them to the inlet
side of the fan so you can't accidentally touch them, but don't mount it
to plastic or anything that would be a high-temp hazard.
Or, you could do some kind of 12-volt motor speed controller or light
dimmer. Be careful you don't run it too slowly, I think some motors can
be damaged if not run at rated voltage range (but 6 volts should be OK
for a 12-volt fan motor).
-John R.
John Slade wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
>
> Happy New Year, Bob and all.
>
> I have a cabin heat blower fan which draws 4.9 amps at 13v. I'd like to
> create a "slow" switch setting where it would run at about half speed. Whats
> the best way to do this? Put a resistor in the circuit for the slow speed?
> What size resistor?
> Regards,
> John Slade
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: two stage blower |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: CozyGirrrl@aol.com
Dear John,
Hey, Happy New Year!
Just a thought, I think some form of electronic control will be more
efficient.
...Chrissi
Cozy Mk-IV 13B Turbo
www.CozyGirrrl.com
Chrissi@BlueMountainAvionics.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: two stage blower |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Neil Clayton <harvey4@earthlink.net>
Hey Mate....happy new year!!!
Where did you put your blower? I was thinking of doing the same thing but
can't decide where to locate it.
I had a problem with the fan speed on my truck a while ago. I took the
beast apart and found a set of in-line resistors, selected by the fan speed
control, one of which had "blown". I experimented with different sized
resistors until I found one that seemed to make the fan speed about where I
needed it.
One thing though - the resistor "bank" was in the air flow, probably for
cooling. Might have to do the same thing with a plane installation?
Neil
At 10:50 AM 1/1/03, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
>
>Happy New Year, Bob and all.
>
>I have a cabin heat blower fan which draws 4.9 amps at 13v. I'd like to
>create a "slow" switch setting where it would run at about half speed. Whats
>the best way to do this? Put a resistor in the circuit for the slow speed?
>What size resistor?
>Regards,
>John Slade
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: GPS Antennas |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: David Lundquist <lundquist@ieee.org>
After seeing this message I did some digging around in a few textbooks I had
here. I really wasn't able to find much and the little I did find seemed to
indicate that the attenuation due to rain or clouds at GPS frequencies
should be VERY small. Nothing even approaching a few dB. More like a few
hundreths of a dB which of course would have no real effect.
Now that I've started in on this I'd be curious if anybody else has any hard
info on the effect of clouds and water vapor. I'll keep looking and post
anything interesting I find.
Dave Lundquist
'77 C150
RV-6 Wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor@chartermi.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS Antennas
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor"
<doconnor@chartermi.net>
>
> Bob, I have to take exception to your statement that clouds make no
> difference... A thick layer of clouds does absorb energy from the
satellite
> signals.. If you have a good antenna and therefore a good signal to noise
> ratio you will not notice it... But if your receiver s/n ratio is marginal
> for what ever reason, a few more dB of loss will make a difference...
>
> Denny
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <BobsV35B@aol.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS Antennas
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 12/30/02 7:36:06 PM Central Standard Time,
> > Whollo80@aol.com writes:
> >
> > > I'm using a Garmin 90 and sometimes lose coverage on cloudy days.
Would
> > > using
> > > one of the externally mounted antennas improve my coverage? Everything
> that
> > > I
> > > see in Aircraft Spruce is a little bit on the expensive side. Any
> thoughts?
> >
> > Good Evening Bill,
> >
> > The clouds should have absolutely nothing to do with your GPS coverage.
> > However, getting a full view of the sky is always a good idea. The 90
was
> a
> > good unit in it's day and still has the capability of providing useful
> > information, but the technology curve is still rising quite steeply on
> such
> > equipment. You might consider upgrading to something like the Garmin
196.
> >
> > Any remote antenna that will allow a better view of the sky will make
the
> 90
> > work a bit better. I don't know whether an active antenna will help
with
> the
> > 90 or not, but why don't you call the Garmin service number? I have
found
> > them to be easy to get hold of and full of good information.
> >
> > I added an active antenna for use with my Trimble 2000 Approach Plus.
> That
> > old antique had it's performance noticeably improved by the addition.
> >
> > Look up Garmin at: <A HREF="www.garmin.com">www.garmin.com
> >
> > They have data there as to the phone numbers to call.
> >
> > Happy Skies,
> >
> > Old Bob
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator weights |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:23 PM 12/31/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charles Brame
><charleyb@earthlink.net>
>
>Interested in either the B&C L-60 or L-40 alternator. The L-60 may be
>overkill, but might be nice if its size and weight are close to the
>L-40. I cannot find any reference to weight on the B& C sites.
>
>Does anyone know what the L-60 and the L-40 alternators weigh.
>
>Charlie Brame
>RV-6A N11CB
>San Antonio
There is also a price difference. The largest, full-up
IFR continuous load I've calculated for a small airplane
is under 30A which makes the L-40 ideal. You might consider
putting the difference in cost into an SD-8 for standby
service.
Seems like the L-60 was just over 8 pounds while the
L-40 was about 6 pounds.
I'll bug Todd at B&C about getting some weights up
for the products . . .
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | RE: OV protection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:11 PM 12/31/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rhett Westerman"
><Rhettwesterman@cox.net>
>
>Bob,
>
> I had the OVM module installed and put 644 hours on it in three years. Put
>it in service in 98 but purchased the OVM probably in 97. Early on it
>tripped a few times but then quit tripping and performed well for about 600
>hours. Then the plane sat for a year and I put a new engine and alternator
>in the plane. Same regulator etc.
>
> The tripping started immediately. I swapped regulators and alternators with
>no change. Still got the tripping. Checked wiring etc and still no
>resolution. Last thing to change was the module itself. That did the job.
>Also note went back to the original alternator I got with the new engine and
>the same regulator that I have now had for many years. This was in Nov and
>now 50 hours later not one trip.
Hmmm . . . sorry you went through these gyrations without
bringing the problem to my attention.
> I just assumed the OVM went bad. BTW, I have the vision system that records
>min and max voltages and the voltage was not going above 14.6 when the
>tripping was occurring, so there was never a voltage spike unless it was too
>fast for the Vision to capture.
There is a characteristic of the silicon controlled rectifiers
used in the crowbar ovm that makes it sensitive to very fast rise
time spikes of moderate amplitude and extremely low energy. Too
small and fast to be observed with normal instrumentation.
We had to reduce the gate to cathode tie down resistor from
220 ohms to 10 ohms to fix this problem in the Bonanzas and
the same change was propagated across the product line.
It's a fairly easy thing to do on older versions of the OVM
and we've been doing the modification without charge for
the very few individuals who have the problem. If you still
have your old module, I'd be happy to update it for you . .
you could keep it around as a spare.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuse size vs Breaker size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:01 AM 1/1/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Billie Lamb" <N254BL@cfl.rr.com>
>
>I thought I had seen this somewhere but can't find it in the book. When
>replacing breakers with fuses do you replace with the same size?
>
>My electronic ignition calls for a 3A resettable breaker. Is that the fuse
>size I would use or would I use a higher rating because the breakers are
>slower to operate?
>
>Is there a rule of thumb to this sizing??
It's rare that any given system would prefer the slower
operating breaker in favor of a faster fuse due to momentary
inrush or operating current "spikes" during normal operations.
The 3A fuse substitute is a 99+% probability of a reasonable
thing to do.
Do I presume correctly that this fuse will be on a battery
bus?
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Alternator weights |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
> There is also a price difference. The largest, full-up
> IFR continuous load I've calculated for a small airplane
> is under 30A which makes the L-40 ideal. You might consider
> putting the difference in cost into an SD-8 for standby
> service.
Bob's estimate is pretty close - I noticed the other day while flying
into the evening my alternator load was 31 amps. This is with strobes,
nav, landing (two RMD halogens), panel lights, Garmin 430, 327, 340,
engine instruments, King 97A, etc. all running. Pitot is about 8 amps
more, although the landing lights and pitot heat would likely not be on
simultaneously, although that would also work. Radio transmitting would
briefly debit the battery, but utterly insignificantly.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 247 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 13
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| Subject: | two stage blower |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
> Hey, Happy New Year!
Hey! Happy New year Back to ya.
> Just a thought, I think some form of electronic control will be more
> efficient.
Right. I just wanted to keep it simple. Blowing 30 watts of heat into the
back of the panel area doesnt seem like a good idea. Turn the blower down,
and I get radiant heat instead. :)
Regards,
John
Message 14
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| Subject: | two stage blower |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
> Hey Mate....happy new year!!!
Same to you.
> Where did you put your blower? I was thinking of doing the same thing but
> can't decide where to locate it.
Everything fits nicely in the nose. See
http://www.kgarden.com/cozy/chap23g.htm
> a set of in-line resistors
I'd rather avoid making heat in a resistor, so there seem to be two options.
Simple option - live with on and off for now
Complex option - get a voltage diode type dimmer
Regards,
John
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator weights |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Wilson <pwilson@climber.org>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>At 05:23 PM 12/31/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charles Brame
>><charleyb@earthlink.net>
>>
>>Interested in either the B&C L-60 or L-40 alternator. The L-60 may be
>>overkill, but might be nice if its size and weight are close to the
>>L-40. I cannot find any reference to weight on the B& C sites.
>>
>>Does anyone know what the L-60 and the L-40 alternators weigh.
>>
>>Charlie Brame
>>RV-6A N11CB
>>San Antonio
>
> There is also a price difference. The largest, full-up
> IFR continuous load I've calculated for a small airplane
> is under 30A which makes the L-40 ideal. You might consider
> putting the difference in cost into an SD-8 for standby
> service.
>
> Seems like the L-60 was just over 8 pounds while the
> L-40 was about 6 pounds.
>
> I'll bug Todd at B&C about getting some weights up
> for the products . . .
>
> Bob . . .
=====
Here is a quick answer since the documents are in front of me.
The B&C data sheets (below) and the flyer they mail out have the
weights. L60=8.5, L40=6.1, 200G=3.4, SD20=5.75, SD8=2.9
see
http://www.bandcspecialty.com/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?2X358218
Paul
--
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Fuse size vs Breaker size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Billie Lamb" <N254BL@cfl.rr.com>
Yes it will be on the battery bus.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuse size vs Breaker size
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 09:01 AM 1/1/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Billie Lamb"
<N254BL@cfl.rr.com>
> >
> >I thought I had seen this somewhere but can't find it in the book. When
> >replacing breakers with fuses do you replace with the same size?
> >
> >My electronic ignition calls for a 3A resettable breaker. Is that the
fuse
> >size I would use or would I use a higher rating because the breakers are
> >slower to operate?
> >
> >Is there a rule of thumb to this sizing??
>
> It's rare that any given system would prefer the slower
> operating breaker in favor of a faster fuse due to momentary
> inrush or operating current "spikes" during normal operations.
>
> The 3A fuse substitute is a 99+% probability of a reasonable
> thing to do.
>
> Do I presume correctly that this fuse will be on a battery
> bus?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Alternator rating |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey <mikec@caseyspm.com>
I wish to ask a general question about how an alternator is rated. To
do this I will give a specific example:
The SD-20 Alternator is rated at 20 Amps at 3500 alternator RPM.
If a Lycoming IO-360 200HP engine is turning at 2000 RPM what is the
alternator RPM?
Walter
********************************************
* Walter Casey
*
* 6528 S. Oneida Ct. *
* Englewood, CO 80110-4617 USA *
* *
* Phone (303) 771-0815 *
* FAX (303) 220-1477 *
* eMail mikec@caseyspm.com *
********************************************
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: second alternator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Wilson <pwilson@climber.org>
Bob,
Thanks for jogging my brain. A rear pulley would be much easier than
a front. pulley. Do you remember how to contact any one who has done
this conversion. I do not remember any on the aero.. list?
Can any body on the list point me to some one who has added the 2nd
alternator to the rear of the Rotax 912?
Thanks, Paul
==============
>At 12:48 PM 12/31/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>> Lots of discussion on alternators over the years. I would like to
>>get help for my 912 Kitfox. For 10 to 12 amps slightly less than
>>the Rotax, the L40/SD20 and SD8/200G seen on the B&C web page. The
>>vacuum drive while being handy is expensive due to the
>>modifications required for the Rotax to get the gears installed. So
>>I am looking at two alternators and adding a belt drive unit.
>> I probably can modify the Accessory drive B&C alternators to add a
>>pulley and mounting provisions. The PM units are slightly smaller
>>and lighter (2.9 vs 5.7 pounds).
>>
>> Question: Is the SD8 an acceptable alternative to the SD20? The
>>cost is less for the SD8 and it uses a less expensive regulator. I
>>wonder what I would give up with the SD8.
>> What is the heritage of the SD8?
>
> If you're considering going to the trouble to add
> ANY" kind of alternator, I'll suggest a ND 40A belt
> driven machine running from a pulley on the rear
> of the crankshaft. This has been done by a number of
> builders and I've not been made aware of any problems.
>
> This will let you configure a REAL electrical system
> for your airplane and use the stock 18A alternator
> as a backup . . . Figure Z-13 describes a whippy
> architecture for this combination of alternators.
>
> Bob . . .
--
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator rating |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
The ratio is 1.3 (pad) to 1 (crankshaft) for all O-360 and IO-360 models.
So the alternator would be spinning at 2600 RPM.
To hit 3500 RPM, the crank has to spin at 2692 RPM...or just say red line.
8
)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Casey" <mikec@caseyspm.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator rating
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey <mikec@caseyspm.com>
>
> I wish to ask a general question about how an alternator is rated. To
> do this I will give a specific example:
>
> The SD-20 Alternator is rated at 20 Amps at 3500 alternator RPM.
> If a Lycoming IO-360 200HP engine is turning at 2000 RPM what is the
> alternator RPM?
>
> Walter
>
> ********************************************
> * Walter Casey
> *
> * 6528 S. Oneida Ct. *
> * Englewood, CO 80110-4617 USA *
> * *
> * Phone (303) 771-0815 *
> * FAX (303) 220-1477 *
> * eMail mikec@caseyspm.com *
> ********************************************
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator rating |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey <mikec@caseyspm.com>
Thanks Dan,
I took the Alternator Performance data form B & C and plotted a graph.
It appears that at 2600 alternator RPM the output is close to zero amps.
We must have something wrong since I am sure that the SD-20 provides
more than a nose weight.
Walter
On Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 11:29 AM, Dan Checkoway wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
> <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> The ratio is 1.3 (pad) to 1 (crankshaft) for all O-360 and IO-360
> models.
> So the alternator would be spinning at 2600 RPM.
>
> To hit 3500 RPM, the crank has to spin at 2692 RPM...or just say red
> line.
> 8
> )
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Walter Casey" <mikec@caseyspm.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator rating
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey
>> <mikec@caseyspm.com>
>>
>> I wish to ask a general question about how an alternator is rated. To
>> do this I will give a specific example:
>>
>> The SD-20 Alternator is rated at 20 Amps at 3500 alternator RPM.
>> If a Lycoming IO-360 200HP engine is turning at 2000 RPM what is the
>> alternator RPM?
>>
>> Walter
>>
>> ********************************************
>> * Walter Casey
>> *
>> * 6528 S. Oneida Ct. *
>> * Englewood, CO 80110-4617 USA *
>> * *
>> * Phone (303) 771-0815 *
>> * FAX (303) 220-1477 *
>> * eMail mikec@caseyspm.com *
>> ********************************************
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | L-60 Alternator rating |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey <mikec@caseyspm.com>
This belt driven 60A alternator has an output of 25A at 3000 alternator
RPM and 60A at 10,000 alternator RPM.
So the question is, when a Lycoming IO-360 is turning 2000 RPM what is
the RPM of the alternator?
Best wishes,
Walter
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: two stage blower |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:50 AM 1/1/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
>
>Happy New Year, Bob and all.
>
>I have a cabin heat blower fan which draws 4.9 amps at 13v. I'd like to
>create a "slow" switch setting where it would run at about half speed. Whats
>the best way to do this? Put a resistor in the circuit for the slow speed?
>What size resistor?
>Regards,
>John Slade
The simplest way is to emulate the speed controls used
on cars . . . add a resistor in series of the appropriate
size to achieve desired speed reduction. This may be difficult
to do in advance of final installation so one can hedge their
bets by using an adjustable resistor.
You can purchase such a device from Digikey as described at
http://info.digikey.com/T023/V5/0675-0679.pdf
I think the AVT50-3 would be a safe bet. Wire it up
per . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/2speed.gif
When the installation is completed and the system
can be powered up, adjust slider on resistor
to get desired low speed.
Bob . . .
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: two stage blower |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:31 AM 1/1/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: CozyGirrrl@aol.com
>
>Dear John,
>Hey, Happy New Year!
>Just a thought, I think some form of electronic control will be more
>efficient.
One could do a variable duty cycle controller. Build
one for cabin vent blower on King Air about 20 years
ago. Quite efficient compared to resistor (this was an
18-20 amp motor at full speed). However, the critter
generated so much noise that filtering became an
issue. We whipped it but parts count, volume and
cost was pretty high . . . it did have the advantage
of offering a knob for variable speed selection by
the pilots but if you can afford a King Air, perhaps
cost of the feature isn't so important in the overall
scheme of things. For little airplanes, and particularly
at this lower current/voltage application, the stone-age
resistor seems pretty attractive.
Bob . . .
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: two stage blower |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:20 AM 1/1/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
>
>Look at: <A HREF="http://www.solorb.com/elect/solarcirc/">
This is similar to the King Air project I cited earlier.
Bob . . .
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator rating |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:11 AM 1/1/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey <mikec@caseyspm.com>
>
>I wish to ask a general question about how an alternator is rated. To
>do this I will give a specific example:
>
>The SD-20 Alternator is rated at 20 Amps at 3500 alternator RPM.
>If a Lycoming IO-360 200HP engine is turning at 2000 RPM what is the
>alternator RPM?
Vacuum pump pads step up from crankshaft speeds by
1.3 to 1.5 to 1 depending on engine make and model.
So at cruise RPM, the SD-20 delivers rated output.
The SD-20 is a 40A frame . . . run it faster and
you can get up to and including 40A out of it. The
device is de-rated to 20A due to speed and/or
cooling limits.
Bob . . .
Message 26
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| Subject: | two stage blower |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
> One could do a variable duty cycle controller. Build
> one for cabin vent blower on King Air about 20 years
> ago....
Bob,
What about using one of the dimmers you ship with the goose neck light to
provide variable voltage?
John Slade
Message 27
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| Subject: | two stage blower |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:57 PM 1/1/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
>
> > Hey Mate....happy new year!!!
>Same to you.
>
> > Where did you put your blower? I was thinking of doing the same thing but
> > can't decide where to locate it.
>Everything fits nicely in the nose. See
>http://www.kgarden.com/cozy/chap23g.htm
>
> > a set of in-line resistors
>I'd rather avoid making heat in a resistor, so there seem to be two options.
>
>Simple option - live with on and off for now
>Complex option - get a voltage diode type dimmer
If the controlling device is passive . . i.e. resistor,
zener diode, transistor (like our dimmers) then there is
energy to be dumped out in heat and that energy is a constant
for any given blower speed irrespective of the controlling
device. One can opt for a hard-switched, variable
duty cycle device if you want to wrestle with additional
parts count and the need to filter the noise. I suspect that
your blower might draw 3A at say 8 volts in low speed
for an output power draw of 24 watts. This can be supplied
with a switch-mode power supply of modest size but it
is a more complex device that you would probably have
to build from scratch.
Try the resistor first . . . after you've got 50 hours
or so on the airplane, you may find that you never or
seldom want the low speed mode or you may find that
a full-range variable speed mode is attractive.
I'll suggest that your airplane wont be "finished"
until perhaps 100 hours after first flight . . .
I wouldn't spend a lot of time wrestling with the
kinds of details that have strong possibility of
being revised later anyhow. Get the airplane
airworthy with high value features fully debugged
first. Bells and whistles are easy to deal with
later.
Bob . . .
>Regards,
>John
>
>
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
Message 28
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| Subject: | Alternator weights |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:50 AM 1/1/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson"
><alexpeterson@usjet.net>
>
> > There is also a price difference. The largest, full-up
> > IFR continuous load I've calculated for a small airplane
> > is under 30A which makes the L-40 ideal. You might consider
> > putting the difference in cost into an SD-8 for standby
> > service.
>
>
>Bob's estimate is pretty close - I noticed the other day while flying
>into the evening my alternator load was 31 amps. This is with strobes,
>nav, landing (two RMD halogens), panel lights, Garmin 430, 327, 340,
>engine instruments, King 97A, etc. all running. Pitot is about 8 amps
>more, although the landing lights and pitot heat would likely not be on
>simultaneously,
. . . nor would strobes and nav lights. The only time you need
pitot heat is in the clouds and you don't want any exterior
lights on then.
> although that would also work. Radio transmitting would
>briefly debit the battery, but utterly insignificantly.
Not if you have the 10A of charging head room offered
by a 40A alternator. After you've replaced energy used
to crank the engine (which happens in the first few
minutes of flight) then ALL of the alternator is available
for powering systems. If your max continuous plus transient
loads exceed 40A, then it may be that you have too much stuff
in your airplane.
Bob . . .
Message 29
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| Subject: | Monster battery for Walter M601 . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>: Hi Bob,
>
>Building a Turbine Legend with Walter M601 engine. The M601 engine has a
>high current starting requirement -- a single 24v battery doesn't have
>enough capacity.
>
>I am planning to use four B&C 12 volt 25AHour batteries -- two 12v
>batteries connected in series for the 24 volt requirement, with two of
>these in paralles. B&C indicates no problem with this setup, but I wanted
>to get your opinion if you would be so kind to comment on the pros and
>cons. Thanks.
That's been done and will function. This combo
could produce a battery array on the order of
100 pounds and total capacity of 50 a.h.
Have you considered perhaps two batteries like
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA_LC-X1265P.pdf
for a total weight of 88 pounds, fewer parts
to install and a capacity of 65 a.h?
Bob . . .
Message 30
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| Subject: | Monster battery for Walter M601 . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>: Hi Bob,
>
>Building a Turbine Legend with Walter M601 engine. The M601 engine has a
>high current starting requirement -- a single 24v battery doesn't have
>enough capacity.
>
>I am planning to use four B&C 12 volt 25AHour batteries -- two 12v
>batteries connected in series for the 24 volt requirement, with two of
>these in paralles. B&C indicates no problem with this setup, but I wanted
>to get your opinion if you would be so kind to comment on the pros and
>cons. Thanks.
That's been done and will function. This combo
could produce a battery array on the order of
100 pounds and total capacity of 50 a.h.
Have you considered perhaps two batteries like
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA_LC-X1265P.pdf
for a total weight of 88 pounds, fewer parts
to install and a capacity of 65 a.h?
Bob . . .
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: cockpit backup batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:56 PM 12/31/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>bob, thanks for your detailed response. i am
>considering an alternator conversion and would
>probably go with the b and c. do you know what type of
>modifications i would have to make to the baffling of
>my aircraft or is it something that would fit in
>without any modification.
You need to talk to the folks at B&C about
it. They'll have first hand information.
>also, i had installed a magnaflite starter
>recently...what happens quite often is that when i
>engage the starter the starter turns the engine to top
>dead center then does not have the power to turn it
>over. i then release the starter button and reengage
>and the engine turns over and starts. what i found out
>after i had the starter installed is that these types
>of starters supposedly require about twice the power
>to operate as the old geared starter i replaced it
>with. in hindsight i wish i had the old starter back
>because it always turned the engine over.
>do you agree with this analysis and do you think the
>alternator conversion would eliminate this issue...
Going to an RG battery (if you haven't already done this)
would help. I'm not familiar with the particular starter
you cited but if it's a permanent magnet starter, it
is true that it probably doesn't deliver the torque
under limited battery conditions that a wound-field
starter provides. This is why B&C has stayed with
the wound field technology in spite of their
competition favoring with PM motors for lower
cost. B&C was unwilling to give up the performance
advantage.
The alternator installation would not help with
regard to cranking . . . attention to battery
technology and condition of wiring, components
and connections between battery and starter
are the critical issues.
Bob . . .
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: two stage blower |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
<snip>
> I'll suggest that your airplane wont be "finished"
> until perhaps 100 hours after first flight . . .
<snip>
How 'bout ~440 hrs and still "buildin' the plane"?? ;-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, probably never will be finished as long as I am
flying it)
"The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Monster battery for Walter M601 . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
how about the Optima line, 800 cca (1000 "marine cranking amp"?), 56 AH,
3 milliohms, 38 lbs each - http://www.dcbattery.com/optima_red.html or
http://www.dcbattery.com/optima_blue.html
-John
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>
>>: Hi Bob,
>>
>>Building a Turbine Legend with Walter M601 engine. The M601 engine has a
>>high current starting requirement -- a single 24v battery doesn't have
>>enough capacity.
>>
>>I am planning to use four B&C 12 volt 25AHour batteries -- two 12v
>>batteries connected in series for the 24 volt requirement, with two of
>>these in paralles. B&C indicates no problem with this setup, but I wanted
>>to get your opinion if you would be so kind to comment on the pros and
>>cons. Thanks.
>
>
> That's been done and will function. This combo
> could produce a battery array on the order of
> 100 pounds and total capacity of 50 a.h.
>
> Have you considered perhaps two batteries like
> http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA_LC-X1265P.pdf
> for a total weight of 88 pounds, fewer parts
> to install and a capacity of 65 a.h?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Lightweight Starters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DHPHKH@aol.com
<<had installed a magnaflite starter..quite often..when i engage the starter
the starter turns the engine to top dead center then does not have the power
to turn it over.>>
Have a data sheet faxed by Electrosystems, maker of the Magnaflite
starter. Here is their comparison of the old MZ-4222 vs the Magnaflite
MZ-6222, exactly as on the sheet:
____
The following test results are based on 15 ft/lbs of torque
MZ-4222 12V 145A 0.89 HP 310 RPM
MZ-6222 12V 235A 1.65 HP 580 RPM
RPM is actual engine RPM
The Magnaflite starters weigh 7.8 lb compared to 17 lb for the standard
starter.
____
Large current draw is obvious, and goes to what Bob wrote about
condition of the current paths. The rest of the specs seem crazy. 15 ft/lb
torque? 580 RPM actual engine cranking speed? Some kind of lab rating
system maybe? I sent questions, but no response.
Skytec lists specs on their web page. The 149-12 (LS or PM) covers the
same applications as the MZ-6222. Here's their data:
_____
Power Output: Typical 2.03 Bhp @ 90% of rated battery voltage
Torque: Typical 230 ft/lb @ 112 RPM @ 90% of rated battery voltage
Current: Typical, cranking new IO-540 @ 160 RPM: 185A @42 ft/lb
_____
Dan Horton
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: L-60 Alternator rating |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:16 PM 1/1/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey <mikec@caseyspm.com>
>
>This belt driven 60A alternator has an output of 25A at 3000 alternator
>RPM and 60A at 10,000 alternator RPM.
>
>So the question is, when a Lycoming IO-360 is turning 2000 RPM what is
>the RPM of the alternator?
do the math. I seem to recall the ring gear
pulley on a Lyc is about 9" The pulley
on a B&C alternator is about 2.5" so
the ratio is about 3.6:1 step up . . .
it may be more. So you can expect nearly
full output out of the alternator at
taxi speeds.
Bob . . .
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: second alternator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:20 AM 1/1/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Wilson <pwilson@climber.org>
>
>Bob,
> Thanks for jogging my brain. A rear pulley would be much easier than
>a front. pulley. Do you remember how to contact any one who has done
>this conversion. I do not remember any on the aero.. list?
>
> Can any body on the list point me to some one who has added the 2nd
>alternator to the rear of the Rotax 912?
The ones that come to mind are Europa builders. You might
poke your head into one of their builder's groups and ask. . .
Saw one on a Dragonfly or Quickie last summer too . . .
Bob . . .
Message 37
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| Subject: | two stage blower |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:42 PM 1/1/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
>
> > One could do a variable duty cycle controller. Build
> > one for cabin vent blower on King Air about 20 years
> > ago....
>Bob,
>What about using one of the dimmers you ship with the goose neck light to
>provide variable voltage?
>John Slade
That would work. You need the DIM14-50
Bob . . .
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Monster battery for Walter M601 . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:31 PM 1/1/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke
><jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>
>how about the Optima line, 800 cca (1000 "marine cranking amp"?), 56 AH,
> 3 milliohms, 38 lbs each - http://www.dcbattery.com/optima_red.html or
>http://www.dcbattery.com/optima_blue.html
>
>-John
Another appealing option. Thanks John. I'll forward it on to him.
Bob . . .
Message 39
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| Subject: | Perm magnet alternator & fuel pump trouble |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@globaleyes.net>
About 15 years ago I installed the B&C 14 amp PM alternator on my Quickie Q-200
powered by a Continental O-200. After I flew the aircraft a couple of years,
I found a wierd condition. My Facet fuel transfer pump would not pump while
airborne. It would seem to work on the ground, but not in the air. I replaced
the fuel pump but it still occurred. Finally, I replaced the battery (I do
not use a starter), and that corrected the problem. A couple of years later when
my battery again went bad, the same problem occurred. Installed a new battery
and the fuel pump worked fine.
This made me nervous (I really need that transfer pump) so when I had an opportunity
to swap out a standard O-200 alternator and regulator for the B&C unit (even
steven) I did it.
I now want to convert back to the B&C, and I will be using an RG battery. I never
did figure out exactly why this occurred. Could it have something to do with
filtering of the alternator output? In my new installation I will be installing
the B&C regulator, with the new addition of the crowbar OV protection and
the filtering capacitor.
Should this take care of it? What do you think?
Thanks! BTW, my O-200 alternator and regulator are for sale on eBay, right now.
Auction # 1876166436.
Sam
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