Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:22 AM - Re: Antenna Electronics (Fergus Kyle)
2. 06:48 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 34 Msgs - 01/07/03 (willfly)
3. 07:08 AM - Re: Dead Dimmer? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:20 AM - Re: CESSNA Cardinal NO AVIONICS MASTER (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:25 AM - Re: Re: Antenna Electronics (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:42 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-Pulse charger (Jim Robinson)
7. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: Antenna Electronics (Jim Robinson)
8. 07:46 AM - Rotax 912UL alternator output (Paul Wilson)
9. 07:51 AM - Re: 10209 Danielson (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 08:27 AM - Re: Dead Dimmer? (John Slade)
11. 08:37 AM - unusual toggle switch (richard@riley.net)
12. 08:58 AM - Re: unusual toggle switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 09:08 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-Pulse charger (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: Antenna Electronics (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 10:14 AM - mounting specs for the Klixon breakers (richard@riley.net)
16. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: 10209 Danielson (LarryRobertHelming)
17. 10:25 AM - Re: Radio Master Switch (Werner Schneider)
18. 11:02 AM - Re: unusual toggle switch (HCRV6@aol.com)
19. 12:15 PM - Soldering torch on sale at Radio Shack thru 2 Feb (David Carter)
20. 12:40 PM - Re: Re: Antenna Electronics (Dennis O'Connor)
21. 12:54 PM - Re: Soldering torch on sale at Radio Shack thru 2 Feb (Sam Buchanan)
22. 02:01 PM - Trim on e-buss? (nhulin)
23. 03:03 PM - Re: Trim on e-buss? (Dan Checkoway)
24. 04:03 PM - Alternator Connection (Bbbb Green)
25. 09:01 PM - Mounting stuff (Tom Brusehaver)
26. 09:50 PM - New Survey: what's on your bus? (Dan Checkoway)
27. 11:21 PM - Re: New Survey: what's on your bus? (Mark Phillips)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna Electronics |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
"> -John R.>
> P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought we to >
have to run such tests?"
"> . . . . or an antenna analyzer like
> http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B
> is handy. Perhaps your EAA chapter could purchase one and
> rent/loan it to members.> Bob . .
Cheers,
John, Bob has it quite right. The MFJ259B Antenna Analyzer is
just the ticket for measuring and adjusting antennas of most sorts -
including aviation types we are discussing.
The device was produced for hams who these days pretty-well end
up building antennas since everything is surface-mount (or worse) in the
manufactured-unit snese. However, useful as it is (I have one for our radio
club use), it is MOST sensitive to improper use. In fact if you plug in the
wallwart power supply with the Analyzer turned on, the surge will cost you
about $100 to repair. So it is not for average or casual use. Having kicked
in for the unit, my advice is to let the owner use it - period. He/she is
the sole caretaker and will doubtless take excellent care of the investment.
I found a "club" ownership is a ticket to early destruction - even with
'old' hands.
The result of this advice is to suggest you make contact with
the local radio club - they are far more populous than EAA chapters - and
are similar in function - guys/gals who enjoy a common goal. Their
whereabouts are easily gleaned from the American Radio Relay League (in
U.S.) In that frame of mind, I would suggest the chapter/individual contact
the local club and buy the pres. a coffee over which to arrange a visit from
one of his members who owns such a device. Hams like builders are a curious
lot and am sure there's one who would volunteer his services, as they do to
each other. ....sounds like a lot of fuss, but you could end up with an
'in-house' antenna specialist/lecturer and do the chapter a longterm
favour - without putting the airfield radio shop's nose out of joint.
Anyway, that's my experience, and $.02,
Ferg
Europa A064
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 34 Msgs - 01/07/03 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "willfly" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Hi Bob,
Yes I have 2 alternators (B&C 40 and 8 amp). I'm using Z12 (1 Battery, Dual
Alternator drawing). The turn and bank is built into the Navaid Devices
auto pilot. No lighting because I'm using two red glow-bug lights (battery
operated see: www.glow-bug.com) for night panel lighting. Any exterior
lights if needed will be provided from the battery just before landing.
Please let me know if this is not all A OK.
Steve Glasgow
704-362-0005
\.........0........./
----- Original Message -----
From: "AeroElectric-List Digest Server"
<aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List Digest: 34 Msgs - 01/07/03
> *
>
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> ================================================
>
>
> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue 01/07/03: 34
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 01:41 AM - Re: Radio Master Switch (Werner Schneider)
> 2. 05:39 AM - Re: Trim on e-buss? (willfly)
> 3. 06:59 AM - Re: 10204 Simpkins (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 4. 07:05 AM - Re: Trim on e-buss? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 5. 07:46 AM - (Gary Casey)
> 6. 07:46 AM - Avionics Masters (Gary Casey)
> 7. 08:18 AM - Re: Dual regulator OV protection (David
Swartzendruber)
> 8. 08:27 AM - Re: GPS antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 9. 08:29 AM - Re: 10198 Clabots (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 10. 09:29 AM - Re: Antenna Electronics (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 11. 09:31 AM - Need some help . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 12. 09:39 AM - Re: Emp wire bundle (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 13. 10:20 AM - Re: Perm magnet alternator & fuel pump (Robert L.
Nuckolls, III)
> 14. 10:24 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-Pulse charger (Robert L.
Nuckolls, III)
> 15. 10:56 AM - Re: Avionics Masters (Walter Casey)
> 16. 11:02 AM - Re: Antenna Electronics (John Rourke)
> 17. 11:37 AM - Re: Antenna Electronics (David Lundquist)
> 18. 11:38 AM - Re: Antenna Electronics (SportAV8R@aol.com)
> 19. 11:42 AM - Re: Antenna Electronics (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 20. 11:45 AM - Re: Avionics Masters (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 21. 11:57 AM - Re: Antenna Electronics (MATTHEW PRATHER)
> 22. 12:20 PM - Re: Antenna Electronics (Cy Galley)
> 23. 12:27 PM - Re: Avionics Masters (Cy Galley)
> 24. 12:47 PM - Re: Antenna Electronics (Rod Kimmell)
> 25. 01:07 PM - Re: Radio Master Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 26. 01:13 PM - Good price on battery tester (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 27. 01:42 PM - Re: Good price on battery tester (BobsV35B@aol.com)
> 28. 01:55 PM - Dead Dimmer? (John Slade)
> 29. 06:17 PM - Re: Dead Dimmer? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 30. 06:18 PM - Re: Good price on battery tester (Robert L. Nuckolls,
III)
> 31. 06:53 PM - Re: Avionics Masters (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 32. 06:57 PM - Re: Dead Dimmer? (John Schroeder)
> 33. 07:19 PM - CESSNA Cardinal NO AVIONICS MASTER (Don Boardman)
> 34. 07:38 PM - Re: Dead Dimmer? (John Slade)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:41:51 AM PST US
> From: "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider@compuserve.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio Master Switch
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider"
<WernerSchneider@compuserve.com>
>
> >
> > Yup . . . I've seen it, and others like it for
> > years. I can't remember if I wrote to this particular
> > author or not. I used to attempt contact with everyone who
> > published articles touting the virtues of an avionics
> > master with respect to protecting radios from airplane
> > gremlins. My question has always been, "Please identify
> > for me the source, duration and magnitude of any
> > transient that might endanger the health and well-being
> > of any piece of electronics.
> >
> .
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> Just started installing my "things" and I have a used Insight engine
monitor
> GEM 602 in the installation instructions (Version 3.0 May 1996) Page 6
>
>
> .....If the aircraft installation does not include an Avionics Master
switch
> circuit or bus, we recommend that one be installed or a separate switch
> provided to remove power from the Display during engine starts.
>
> Should I really follow the separate switch way (tube display) or just
ignore
> (Bob, do you want the notes in pdf form for asking them =(;o))
>
> Werner (VFR all electric)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:39:09 AM PST US
> From: "willfly" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Trim on e-buss?
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "willfly"
<willfly@carolina.rr.com>
>
> I would say the real answer would be determined by the total load you are
planning
> for the E Bus. The heavy load items will be the com/transmitter and
transponder.
>
>
> I'm not flying yet but currently have the following on my E Bus;
>
> GNC 300XL Nav/Com, GTX 327 transponder, VLM, Elevator Trim, Auto Pilot,
AH, DG
> and EIS system. I plan to limit transponder and com transmissions during
E BUS
> only operation.
>
> Steve Glasgow
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:59:57 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 10204 Simpkins
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>
> > Bob:
> >
> >Thanks for your excellent publication and advice. I've been stewing over
a
> >dual-alternator dual-bus Rotax 914 system for a pusher,
> >and am appalled at how the the hideous current drain of the battery
> >contactor solenoid eats up the capacity of the standard 914
> >generator. Though it would be tolerable for a momentary actuator to have
> >a high solenoid current, the battery (and crossfeed) contactor is a prime
> >candidate for improvement. I'm somewhat suprised that with all the
> >advances in power controllers there isn't a low trigger current (or
> >voltage) solid-state alternative to the battery contactor.
>
> >The only reasons I can think of for this is:
> > 1. the on resistance is still way too high
> > 2. the starter currents could fry the solid state contactor
> > 3. the market is for higher bus voltages
> > 4. a solid state unit would cost 5 times as much
> > 5. not enough volume for anybody to be interested
> >Have you come across a possible replacement, or have you some cautionary
> >thoughts
> >on the matter?
>
> As you've discovered, such devices exist and have for a number of
years.
> There are high current contactors that use stepped power management
> to supply fast actuation with low sustaining current but they are not
> cheap. My question to you is, what features of your load analysis
> tell you that "power wasteful" contactors are driving your
> design up to the ragged edge of practicality?
>
> What is your second alternator? If it's at least a 40A belt
> driven machine, then the 18A alternator built onto the back
> of the Rotax can be treated as if it were an SD-8 or SD-20
> pad driven alternator on the back of a Lycoming. You should
> have gobs of energy to do everything the airplane needs to
> do an still toss off 20-30 watts for closing less-than-ideal
> contactors which are more readily acquired and much less
> expensive.
>
> I'd recommend you wire things up using Figure Z-13 where the
> smaller alternator on the Rotax is used for back-up only.
> In this configuration, even with dual batteries, the ugly
> contactors are close only while the big alternator is operating
> and you have power to burn. If the big alternator is off line,
> the only relay you need to keep close is the ov protection relay
> on the smaller alternator which only wastes about 1.5 watts.
>
> I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
> to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
> share the information with as many folks as possible.
> You can join at . . .
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |---------------------------------------------------|
> | A lie can travel half way around the world while |
> | the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
> | -Mark Twain- |
> |---------------------------------------------------|
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:05:13 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Trim on e-buss?
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 08:37 AM 1/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "willfly"
<willfly@carolina.rr.com>
> >
> >I would say the real answer would be determined by the total load you are
> >planning for the E Bus. The heavy load items will be the com/transmitter
> >and transponder.
> >
> >I'm not flying yet but currently have the following on my E Bus;
> >
> >GNC 300XL Nav/Com, GTX 327 transponder, VLM, Elevator Trim, Auto Pilot,
> >AH, DG and EIS system. I plan to limit transponder and com transmissions
> >during E BUS only operation.
>
>
> Since you are all electric, do you have a second alternator
> planned? If you have two alternators, which of the architectures
> have you selected for wiring things up . . . Z-12, Z-13, or Z-14?
>
> Transponder and comm loads are the smallest of loads. The comm in
> receive mode should be .5A or less, the transponder will run about
> an amp or so with moderate reply rates.
>
> What have you calculated as the total running loads for your
> present e-bus architecture and why don't you have any lighting
> and/or turn coordinator on the e-bus?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:46:15 AM PST US
> From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey"
<glcasey@adelphia.net>
>
> <<A failure of the regulator could be caused by a problem somewhere else
> in the aircraft such as a partially shorted field winding, or
> intermittently shorting field wire. This could fail both regulators in
> the same manner and then leave you with an over-voltage condition and no
> protection other than the pilot noticing it and turning off the
> alternator. Bob's OV module would provide the necessary OV protection
> in this situation.
>
> There are other reasons why I would not choose the two regulators in
> series approach, but I believe the one above is enough.
>
> David Swartzendruber
> Wichita>>
>
> To analyze the situation we need to evaluate all failure modes that would
> cause an uncommanded full excitation of the alternator field. Yes, I
> suppose it is possible for the positive side of the field to become
shorted
> to battery voltage, but how would that happen? The wiring is not close to
> each other, not even internally to the alternator. And if it did short
like
> that any OV system that disconnected the power wouldn't work anyway. If
the
> field had an internal short it would either be a short between windings or
a
> short to ground. In either case the alternator output goes down and
doesn't
> require an over-voltage action. If it did short to ground it presumably
> will blow the fuse in the field supply, possibly taking the regulator with
> it. In either case the charging system won't work again until repaired.
If
> the primary regulator had an internal short to ground the fuse will again
> blow and the secondary regulator would be helpless - still no over-voltage
> condition. On the other hand, if the voltage regulator sense lead opened,
> or a number of devices in the regulator failed the regulator output could
> turn full on, creating an over-voltage. In this case the second regulator
> would behave as though it were a "proportional" over-voltage module and
> limit the current to the field. The second regulator should, of course,
> have a completely independent voltage sense connection. I suppose the
> failure mode left is a very short duration, single event short to ground,
> which could cause the output devices in both regulators to fail shorted,
but
> still not blow the in-line fuse. But I think that specific failure mode
is
> very, very rare.
>
> Gary Casey
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:46:15 AM PST US
> From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Masters
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey"
<glcasey@adelphia.net>
>
> <<I was at Cessna when the avionics master was born, and
> we thought we had a good reason . . . . over the years
> the reasoning, experience and technology upon which
> the decision was made are long since gone the way of
> the buggy whip.
>
> Bob . . . >>
>
> Just as a point of reference, my Cardinal apparently was equipped with an
> "avionics master relay" which was a normally closed relay between the main
> buss and the avionics buss. The coil was connected to the starter
terminal
> on the ignition switch so that when the starter was engaged the avionics
> were turned off. It either only showed up in the service manual, never
> being installed, or had been removed at some point in its life. Another
> single point of failure.
>
> As far as I can tell there are very minor voltage transients that occur
> during cranking. The first is when the starter is engaged and the battery
> voltage takes a virtually instantaneous drop to some lower voltage.
During
> cranking the battery voltage will smoothly rise and fall with each
> compression stroke, accompanied by a ripple voltage from starter
commutator
> segments. When the starter is released the voltage will step back to a
> no-load condition, not overshooting. The inductive surge from the starter
> exists on the STARTER side of the contactor and doesn't exist at the main
> buss. Car systems shut off some of the electronics during cranking
because
> they only need to shut off the heater blower and the electronics were just
> hooked to the same switch terminal because it was there.
>
> It would be tempting, I suppose, to hook the starter contactor directly to
> the battery and leave the master off during cranking. But then there
would
> be no way to disconnect the starter if the contactor welded.
>
> Gary Casey
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:18:27 AM PST US
> From: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Dual regulator OV protection
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber"
<dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
>
> The failure mode you mention below is one of the ones I was trying to
> describe. I was not talking about any shorting of the field wire to bus
> voltage. The other failure mode I was thinking of was shorting of the
> field winding to itself which would decrease the field resistance, and
> increase the field current. The pass transistor in the regulator could
> potentially fail as a result of higher than normal field current, yet
> not high enough to trip the breaker.
>
> You are right about these being somewhat rare, but any OV condition is
> rare. My preference would be to provide OV protection that didn't have
> the same failure mode as the regulator. If the regulator is so
> unreliable that a backup regulator is desired, I would prefer to put it
> in parallel to the first with the ability to switch between them. Each
> one would also have OV protection. This still doesn't provide the
> reliability that one might expect because a fault in the aircraft could
> take out the first regulator, and then when you switch in the second, it
> goes too. Also, there are still other single point failures that could
> take out the alternator system.
>
> A second, completely separate alternator system would be my choice if
> the one alternator, one regulator system was not reliable enough. I
> believe that one can find a regulator that is as reliable as other parts
> of the alternator system. Trying to provide redundancy for some
> components of the system, but not others which are just as likely to
> fail, seems to be increasing parts count and complexity without the
> increase in reliability needed to justify it.
>
> David Swartzendruber
> Wichita
>
> > I suppose the
> > failure mode left is a very short duration, single event (or
> intermittent) short to ground,
> > which could cause the output devices in both regulators to fail
> shorted,
> > but
> > still not blow the in-line fuse. But I think that specific failure
> mode
> > is
> > very, very rare.
> >
> > Gary Casey
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:27:35 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 11:20 PM 1/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
> >
> >See the current issue of Kitplanes for an article on building an external
> >GPS antenna.
> >
> >Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage
> >
> >Do not archive
> >
> >
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Whollo80@aol.com
> >
> >I'm using a Garmin 90 and sometimes lose coverage on cloudy days. Would
> >using
> >one of the externally mounted antennas improve my coverage? Everything
> >that I
> >see in Aircraft Spruce is a little bit on the expensive side. Any
> >thoughts?
>
>
> I've been using GPS antennas from these folk for several
> years. They have a variety of types including some active
> (amplified) antennas for as low as $20.
>
> http://www.laipac.com/products/gps/GPS%20Active%20Antennas.htm
>
> Can't imagine why anyone would want to try and build an antenna
> at these prices.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:29:38 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 10198 Clabots
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 06:59 PM 1/4/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
> >Gerald Clabots (gclabots@execpc.com) on Saturday, January 4, 2003 at
18:59:39
> >
> >Saturday, January 4, 2003
> >
> >Gerald Clabots
> >
> >,
> >Email: gclabots@execpc.com
> >Comments/Questions: I plan on ordering you fuse block and fuses, My
> >question is my pitot tube draws 8.5 amps. Is a 10 amp fuse to small? That
> >would be 85% of rating. What is a recommended loading of fuses?
>
> Pitot heaters are unique in that they have a rather long duration
> warm-up inrush current. For an 8A pitot heater, I would fuse it
> at 15A and wire the circuit with 14AWG wire. Every other
> system in the airplane will be fine with a fuse rated only
> slightly higher than running current for the device.
>
>
> >Thanks
> >Gerry
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
> | over the man who cannot read them. |
> | - Mark Twain |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:29:22 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 09:37 PM 1/4/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Duane Bentley"
<dbentley@fuse.net>
> >
> >Maybe I have some new, defective antennas or I don't understand the
> >electronics. I've read Bob's chapter on antenna theory, but don't
readily
> >see the answer to my questions.
> >
> >I'm installing the various nav & com antennas on my RV6 and decided to do
a
> >continuity check on them before connecting the cables. On the
Aeroelectric
> >transponder antenna, at the connector, the inner pin is insulated from
the
> >outer, and the inner has continuity with the shaft, all as I would
expect.
> >
> >On my Comant VOR/LOC/GS cat wiskers, the ohm meter says the inner pin and
> >outer connector are hooked together somewhere inside and have complete
> >continuity, but the two "whiskers" are insulated from everything.
> >
> >The Comant marker beacon antenna also has continuity between the inner
pin
> >and the outer connector shell, but the actual antenna is buried inside
the
> >housing and I can't check that out.
> >
> >The bent whip Com antenna is different from the rest. The inner pin and
> >outer shell are insulated from each other, but there is also no
continuity
> >between the inner pin and the whip.
> >
> >So, are the electronics correct, or do I have some defective antenna?
>
> As a general rule, antennas cannot always be "tested" with an
ohmmeter.
> Some antennas may have matching networks consisting of various
> inductors and capacitors that will make continuity measurements
> confusing or meaningless. Active testing by exciting the antenna
> with a source at the frequency of interest and measuring resistive
> and reactive components (SWR) is the only effective means for
> testing an antenna.
>
> As a general rule also, antennas are quite rugged. I cannot
> recall ever having to replace an antenna that did not suffer
> some catastrophic damage (collision, lighting stroke, etc).
> So if your coax feedlines check out, go ahead and stick everything
> together. If you find performance lacking after every thing is
installed,
> it is MORE likely that you have a problem with a radio but it's
> easy to test the antenna as installed with test equipment that
> will be in the possession of every decent avionics shop.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:31:16 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Need some help . . .
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> We've set a date for the annual weekend seminar in Ft. Worth.
> It's a rather short coupled date (Mar 22/23). I'd really
> appreciate it if folks who frequent other list servers would
> make an announcement for me (assuming list-manager would not
> dis-approve).
>
> Link to the Ft. Worth page is
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars/Ft.Worth.html
>
> Thanks guys . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
> | over the man who cannot read them. |
> | - Mark Twain |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:39:29 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Emp wire bundle
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 12:02 AM 1/5/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
<Larry@BowenAero.com>
> >
> >I have wire runs going to the empannage area for three things: trim
> >servo, Pointer ELT, and rudder position/strobe combo light. The ELT and
> >strobe wires are shielded. (The ELT itself and its antennea are both
> >beneath the VS.)
> >
> >Should there be any problems bundling all three of these wire runs
> >together?
> >
> >-
>
> Risks are quite low . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:20:22 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Perm magnet alternator & fuel pump
> trouble
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 09:10 AM 1/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DHPHKH@aol.com
> >
> ><<I suspect the pump (which I believe is solid state electronics to
control
> >motor coil) may be sensitive to the severe ripple voltage that is present
> >with the permanent alternators. >>
> >
> > Bob, can you expand on the subject of PM alternator ripple?
Didn't
> >realize that, nor the part about an old battery not being able to smooth
> >things for the system.
> >
> >
> >Thanks
> >Dan
>
> PM alternators in general are single phase devices with
> an unfiltered ripple voltage equal to full output from the
> device. 3-phase alternators on the other hand have only
> about 5% pk-pk ripple after rectification.
>
> All of our diagrams show a hefty filter capacitor on
> each PM alternator installation . . . which should be
> replaced every 4-5 years. We also recommend periodic
> battery replacement for the purposes of maintaining
> both battery capacity and battery filtering effectiveness.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:24:39 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-Pulse charger
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 07:02 AM 1/3/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Robinson"
> ><jbr@hitechnetworks.net>
> >
> >Bob
> >There was a thread awhile back on battery chargers that helped
> >desulfonate a battery to prolong it's life. I wonder what was found
> >out regarding the units. Do they work as stated? Are they worth
> >buying? any suggestions as to brands/ sources?
> >Jim Robinson
> >Glasair 79R
>
> I have a sample product that's supposed to recover
> lost capacity in a battery due to sulfation . . . the
> limited testing I've been able to conduct haven't been
> conclusive in support of the claims. I wasn't able
> to recover a battery that was pulled from service
> after it failed to start a car . . . I did see some
> increase in battery capacity for a few cycles of testing.
> I let the battery sit on the shelf for a month with the
> de-sulfater installed . . . took it down and attempted
> to charge and retest . . . battery wouldn't accept any
> significant charge and it's capacity had dropped to
> a few percent of new.
>
> If it were my airplane, I'd still have to opt for
> the new-battery-every-year technique for making sure
> I was carrying the expected reserve capacity.
>
> Dave S. You guys were looking at some de-sulfator
> type products, any new info on that program?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 15
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:56:25 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Masters
> From: Walter Casey <mikec@caseyspm.com>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey <mikec@caseyspm.com>
>
>
> Does anyone remember vacuum tube radios in automobiles. The vacuum
> tubes required high voltage (over 90V) and to get this voltage the 6V
> DC had to be converted to AC an run through a transformer. The DC to AC
> converted was called vibrator and worked like an electric door bell.
> When you turned on the radio the first thing you heard was the hum of
> the vibrator. The vibrator was quite prone to failure due to contacts
> sticking. As I understood it, it was to prevent the contact sticking
> that the starter button was removed and replaced by the key
> switch/starter which prevented the radio from being on while the car
> was started.
>
> Old habits die hard.
>
> Best wishes,
> Walter Casey
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 16
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:02:03 AM PST US
> From: John Rourke <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke
<jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>
> I would agree that an "open circuit" as shown with an ohmmeter is
> entirely possible in a properly functioning antenna, but if it shows a
> dead short of 0 ohms from the shielding to the center conductor, I can't
> think of any way that antenna could function properly.
>
> If that is the case, I wouldn't want to initiate any transmission test
> until the short is found - although I guess today's transceivers can
> handle that, it still just doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Am I
wrong?
>
> -John R.
>
> P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought we to
> have to run such tests?
>
>
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >
> > At 09:37 PM 1/4/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Duane Bentley"
<dbentley@fuse.net>
> >>
> >>Maybe I have some new, defective antennas or I don't understand the
> >>electronics. I've read Bob's chapter on antenna theory, but don't
readily
> >>see the answer to my questions.
> >>
> >>I'm installing the various nav & com antennas on my RV6 and decided to
do a
> >>continuity check on them before connecting the cables. On the
Aeroelectric
> >>transponder antenna, at the connector, the inner pin is insulated from
the
> >>outer, and the inner has continuity with the shaft, all as I would
expect.
> >>
> >>On my Comant VOR/LOC/GS cat wiskers, the ohm meter says the inner pin
and
> >>outer connector are hooked together somewhere inside and have complete
> >>continuity, but the two "whiskers" are insulated from everything.
> >>
> >>The Comant marker beacon antenna also has continuity between the inner
pin
> >>and the outer connector shell, but the actual antenna is buried inside
the
> >>housing and I can't check that out.
> >>
> >>The bent whip Com antenna is different from the rest. The inner pin and
> >>outer shell are insulated from each other, but there is also no
continuity
> >>between the inner pin and the whip.
> >>
> >>So, are the electronics correct, or do I have some defective antenna?
> >
> >
> > As a general rule, antennas cannot always be "tested" with an
ohmmeter.
> > Some antennas may have matching networks consisting of various
> > inductors and capacitors that will make continuity measurements
> > confusing or meaningless. Active testing by exciting the antenna
> > with a source at the frequency of interest and measuring resistive
> > and reactive components (SWR) is the only effective means for
> > testing an antenna.
> >
> > As a general rule also, antennas are quite rugged. I cannot
> > recall ever having to replace an antenna that did not suffer
> > some catastrophic damage (collision, lighting stroke, etc).
> > So if your coax feedlines check out, go ahead and stick everything
> > together. If you find performance lacking after every thing is
installed,
> > it is MORE likely that you have a problem with a radio but it's
> > easy to test the antenna as installed with test equipment that
> > will be in the possession of every decent avionics shop.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 17
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:37:11 AM PST US
> From: "David Lundquist" <lundquist@ieee.org>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lundquist"
<lundquist@ieee.org>
>
> It is entirely possible that a perfectly good antenna can be either open
or
> a dead short when checked with an ohm meter. The ohm meter is only useful
> if you know what the antenna is supposed to be.
>
> Dave Lundquist
> lundquist@ieee.org
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Rourke" <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke
> <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
> >
> > I would agree that an "open circuit" as shown with an ohmmeter is
> > entirely possible in a properly functioning antenna, but if it shows a
> > dead short of 0 ohms from the shielding to the center conductor, I can't
> > think of any way that antenna could function properly.
> >
> > If that is the case, I wouldn't want to initiate any transmission test
> > until the short is found - although I guess today's transceivers can
> > handle that, it still just doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Am I
> wrong?
> >
> > -John R.
> >
> > P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought we to
> > have to run such tests?
> >
> >
> > Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> > >
> > > At 09:37 PM 1/4/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > >
> > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Duane Bentley"
> <dbentley@fuse.net>
> > >>
> > >>Maybe I have some new, defective antennas or I don't understand the
> > >>electronics. I've read Bob's chapter on antenna theory, but don't
> readily
> > >>see the answer to my questions.
> > >>
> > >>I'm installing the various nav & com antennas on my RV6 and decided to
> do a
> > >>continuity check on them before connecting the cables. On the
> Aeroelectric
> > >>transponder antenna, at the connector, the inner pin is insulated from
> the
> > >>outer, and the inner has continuity with the shaft, all as I would
> expect.
> > >>
> > >>On my Comant VOR/LOC/GS cat wiskers, the ohm meter says the inner pin
> and
> > >>outer connector are hooked together somewhere inside and have complete
> > >>continuity, but the two "whiskers" are insulated from everything.
> > >>
> > >>The Comant marker beacon antenna also has continuity between the inner
> pin
> > >>and the outer connector shell, but the actual antenna is buried inside
> the
> > >>housing and I can't check that out.
> > >>
> > >>The bent whip Com antenna is different from the rest. The inner pin
and
> > >>outer shell are insulated from each other, but there is also no
> continuity
> > >>between the inner pin and the whip.
> > >>
> > >>So, are the electronics correct, or do I have some defective antenna?
> > >
> > >
> > > As a general rule, antennas cannot always be "tested" with an
> ohmmeter.
> > > Some antennas may have matching networks consisting of various
> > > inductors and capacitors that will make continuity measurements
> > > confusing or meaningless. Active testing by exciting the antenna
> > > with a source at the frequency of interest and measuring resistive
> > > and reactive components (SWR) is the only effective means for
> > > testing an antenna.
> > >
> > > As a general rule also, antennas are quite rugged. I cannot
> > > recall ever having to replace an antenna that did not suffer
> > > some catastrophic damage (collision, lighting stroke, etc).
> > > So if your coax feedlines check out, go ahead and stick everything
> > > together. If you find performance lacking after every thing is
> installed,
> > > it is MORE likely that you have a problem with a radio but it's
> > > easy to test the antenna as installed with test equipment that
> > > will be in the possession of every decent avionics shop.
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 18
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:38:11 AM PST US
> From: SportAV8R@aol.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 01/07/2003 2:02:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jrourke@allied-computer.com writes:
>
>
> > if it shows a
> > dead short of 0 ohms from the shielding to the center conductor, I can't
> > think of any way that antenna could function properly.
> >
>
> I can: balun transformer between feedline and cat-whiskers. The standard
> arrangement, I believe.
>
> Bill B
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 19
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:42:00 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 12:57 PM 1/7/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke
> ><jrourke@allied-computer.com>
> >
> >I would agree that an "open circuit" as shown with an ohmmeter is
> >entirely possible in a properly functioning antenna, but if it shows a
> >dead short of 0 ohms from the shielding to the center conductor, I can't
> >think of any way that antenna could function properly.
>
> There are LOTS of antenna designs that measure zero ohms (or
> close to it) at the connector that work just fine as an antenna.
> The ohmmeter is NOT the tool for antenna testing. . . .
>
> >If that is the case, I wouldn't want to initiate any transmission test
> >until the short is found - although I guess today's transceivers can
> >handle that, it still just doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Am I
wrong?
> >
> >-John R.
> >
> >P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought we to
> >have to run such tests?
>
> An SWR meter is good . . . like
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4671&item=1949914808
> . . . . or an antenna analyzer like
> http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B
> is handy. Perhaps your EAA chapter could purchase one and
> rent/loan it to members.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 20
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:45:47 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Masters
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 11:54 AM 1/7/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey
<mikec@caseyspm.com>
> >
> >
> >Does anyone remember vacuum tube radios in automobiles. The vacuum
> >tubes required high voltage (over 90V) and to get this voltage the 6V
> >DC had to be converted to AC an run through a transformer. The DC to AC
> >converted was called vibrator and worked like an electric door bell.
> >When you turned on the radio the first thing you heard was the hum of
> >the vibrator. The vibrator was quite prone to failure due to contacts
> >sticking. As I understood it, it was to prevent the contact sticking
> >that the starter button was removed and replaced by the key
> >switch/starter which prevented the radio from being on while the car
> >was started.
> >
> >Old habits die hard.
>
> My first mobile rig was vibrator power supply powered. Had
> it installed in a 6-volt, 1941 Pontiac. Here's some more
> info on this bit of ancient but elegant technology at
> http://www.geocities.com/vintage_radio/vpwrsup.htm
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 21
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:57:33 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics
> From: "MATTHEW PRATHER" <mprather@spro.net>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "MATTHEW PRATHER"
<mprather@spro.net>
>
> At the risk of being argumentative, and to somewhat amplify on what Bob
> said, I believe that an impedance matching balun may be very close to a dc
> short across its inputs. Check out
http://www.kc7nod.20m.com/new_page_1.htm.
> The reason that doesn't damage a transmitter is that the AC impedance of
the
> inductor will always be greater than the measured DC resistance. What
short
> circuit protection scheme is designed into the output stage of the
> transmitter
> shouldn't matter when driving into an inductive load (like a matching
> transformer).
>
> I would imagine that your ADF antenna might look like a DC short because
of
> just such an impedance matcher. This is so because an efficiently sized
> dipole
> for lower (ADF) frequencies might be quite large. Not relevant example
for
> transmitter damage, but if you are playing with an ohmeter and your
airplane
> antennas, don't be surprised...
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt Prather
> N34RD
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke
> > <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
> >
> > I would agree that an "open circuit" as shown with an ohmmeter is
> > entirely possible in a properly functioning antenna, but if it shows a
> > dead short of 0 ohms from the shielding to the center conductor, I can't
> > think of any way that antenna could function properly.
> >
> > If that is the case, I wouldn't want to initiate any transmission test
> > until the short is found - although I guess today's transceivers can
> > handle that, it still just doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Am I
> > wrong?
> >
> > -John R.
> >
> > P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought we to
> > have to run such tests?
> >
> >
> > Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> >> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >>
> >> At 09:37 PM 1/4/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >>
> >>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Duane Bentley"
> >>> <dbentley@fuse.net>
> >>>
> >>>Maybe I have some new, defective antennas or I don't understand the
> >>> electronics. I've read Bob's chapter on antenna theory, but don't
> >>> readily see the answer to my questions.
> >>>
> >>>I'm installing the various nav & com antennas on my RV6 and decided to
> >>> do a continuity check on them before connecting the cables. On the
> >>> Aeroelectric transponder antenna, at the connector, the inner pin is
> >>> insulated from the outer, and the inner has continuity with the shaft,
> >>> all as I would expect.
> >>>
> >>>On my Comant VOR/LOC/GS cat wiskers, the ohm meter says the inner pin
> >>> and outer connector are hooked together somewhere inside and have
> >>> complete continuity, but the two "whiskers" are insulated from
> >>> everything.
> >>>
> >>>The Comant marker beacon antenna also has continuity between the inner
> >>> pin and the outer connector shell, but the actual antenna is buried
> >>> inside the housing and I can't check that out.
> >>>
> >>>The bent whip Com antenna is different from the rest. The inner pin
> >>> and outer shell are insulated from each other, but there is also no
> >>> continuity between the inner pin and the whip.
> >>>
> >>>So, are the electronics correct, or do I have some defective antenna?
> >>
> >>
> >> As a general rule, antennas cannot always be "tested" with an
> >> ohmmeter. Some antennas may have matching networks consisting of
> >> various inductors and capacitors that will make continuity
> >> measurements confusing or meaningless. Active testing by exciting
> >> the antenna with a source at the frequency of interest and
> >> measuring resistive and reactive components (SWR) is the only
> >> effective means for testing an antenna.
> >>
> >> As a general rule also, antennas are quite rugged. I cannot
> >> recall ever having to replace an antenna that did not suffer some
> >> catastrophic damage (collision, lighting stroke, etc).
> >> So if your coax feedlines check out, go ahead and stick everything
> >> together. If you find performance lacking after every thing is
> >> installed, it is MORE likely that you have a problem with a radio
> >> but it's easy to test the antenna as installed with test equipment
> >> that will be in the possession of every decent avionics shop.
> >>
> >> Bob . . .
> >>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 22
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:20:44 PM PST US
> From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> Radio waves are AC and you are measuring DC resistance.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Lundquist" <lundquist@ieee.org>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lundquist"
> <lundquist@ieee.org>
> >
> > It is entirely possible that a perfectly good antenna can be either open
> or
> > a dead short when checked with an ohm meter. The ohm meter is only
useful
> > if you know what the antenna is supposed to be.
> >
> > Dave Lundquist
> > lundquist@ieee.org
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Rourke" <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics
> >
> >
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke
> > <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
> > >
> > > I would agree that an "open circuit" as shown with an ohmmeter is
> > > entirely possible in a properly functioning antenna, but if it shows a
> > > dead short of 0 ohms from the shielding to the center conductor, I
can't
> > > think of any way that antenna could function properly.
> > >
> > > If that is the case, I wouldn't want to initiate any transmission test
> > > until the short is found - although I guess today's transceivers can
> > > handle that, it still just doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Am I
> > wrong?
> > >
> > > -John R.
> > >
> > > P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought we
to
> > > have to run such tests?
> > >
> > >
> > > Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> > <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> > > >
> > > > At 09:37 PM 1/4/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Duane Bentley"
> > <dbentley@fuse.net>
> > > >>
> > > >>Maybe I have some new, defective antennas or I don't understand the
> > > >>electronics. I've read Bob's chapter on antenna theory, but don't
> > readily
> > > >>see the answer to my questions.
> > > >>
> > > >>I'm installing the various nav & com antennas on my RV6 and decided
to
> > do a
> > > >>continuity check on them before connecting the cables. On the
> > Aeroelectric
> > > >>transponder antenna, at the connector, the inner pin is insulated
from
> > the
> > > >>outer, and the inner has continuity with the shaft, all as I would
> > expect.
> > > >>
> > > >>On my Comant VOR/LOC/GS cat wiskers, the ohm meter says the inner
pin
> > and
> > > >>outer connector are hooked together somewhere inside and have
complete
> > > >>continuity, but the two "whiskers" are insulated from everything.
> > > >>
> > > >>The Comant marker beacon antenna also has continuity between the
inner
> > pin
> > > >>and the outer connector shell, but the actual antenna is buried
inside
> > the
> > > >>housing and I can't check that out.
> > > >>
> > > >>The bent whip Com antenna is different from the rest. The inner pin
> and
> > > >>outer shell are insulated from each other, but there is also no
> > continuity
> > > >>between the inner pin and the whip.
> > > >>
> > > >>So, are the electronics correct, or do I have some defective
antenna?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > As a general rule, antennas cannot always be "tested" with an
> > ohmmeter.
> > > > Some antennas may have matching networks consisting of various
> > > > inductors and capacitors that will make continuity measurements
> > > > confusing or meaningless. Active testing by exciting the
antenna
> > > > with a source at the frequency of interest and measuring
resistive
> > > > and reactive components (SWR) is the only effective means for
> > > > testing an antenna.
> > > >
> > > > As a general rule also, antennas are quite rugged. I cannot
> > > > recall ever having to replace an antenna that did not suffer
> > > > some catastrophic damage (collision, lighting stroke, etc).
> > > > So if your coax feedlines check out, go ahead and stick
everything
> > > > together. If you find performance lacking after every thing is
> > installed,
> > > > it is MORE likely that you have a problem with a radio but it's
> > > > easy to test the antenna as installed with test equipment that
> > > > will be in the possession of every decent avionics shop.
> > > >
> > > > Bob . . .
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 23
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:27:20 PM PST US
> From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Masters
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> What a great site for old radios. Brought back many old memories of my
> expensive 1948 Buick with the dual point vibrator. Never could get the
hash
> out!
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
>
> Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Masters
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >
> > At 11:54 AM 1/7/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey
> <mikec@caseyspm.com>
> > >
> > >
> > >Does anyone remember vacuum tube radios in automobiles. The vacuum
> > >tubes required high voltage (over 90V) and to get this voltage the 6V
> > >DC had to be converted to AC an run through a transformer. The DC to AC
> > >converted was called vibrator and worked like an electric door bell.
> > >When you turned on the radio the first thing you heard was the hum of
> > >the vibrator. The vibrator was quite prone to failure due to contacts
> > >sticking. As I understood it, it was to prevent the contact sticking
> > >that the starter button was removed and replaced by the key
> > >switch/starter which prevented the radio from being on while the car
> > >was started.
> > >
> > >Old habits die hard.
> >
> > My first mobile rig was vibrator power supply powered. Had
> > it installed in a 6-volt, 1941 Pontiac. Here's some more
> > info on this bit of ancient but elegant technology at
> > http://www.geocities.com/vintage_radio/vpwrsup.htm
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 24
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:47:58 PM PST US
> From: "Rod Kimmell" <rod.kimmell@worldnet.att.net>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rod Kimmell"
<rod.kimmell@worldnet.att.net>
>
> What looks like a dead short or open to DC current flow on an antenna
> will look entirely differerent to RF energy whether received or
> transmitted.
>
> Impedance is the AC equivalent of DC resistance and is a combination of
> resistance, reactance, and frequency. Depending on the antenna design,
> the DC measurement could be anythings for 0 to infinity. Most VHF/UHF
> radios, including aircraft, typically expect to see a 50 ohm impedance
> at the operating frequency. Some antennas have capacitance coupling
> which would look like an open. Ever wonder how those glass mounted
> cellular antennas work? Capacitive coupling through the glass.
>
> For those interested, any Amateur Radio Relay League Handbook will have
> more information.
>
> Rod
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cy
> Galley
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> Radio waves are AC and you are measuring DC resistance.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Lundquist" <lundquist@ieee.org>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lundquist"
> <lundquist@ieee.org>
> >
> > It is entirely possible that a perfectly good antenna can be either
> > open
> or
> > a dead short when checked with an ohm meter. The ohm meter is only
> > useful if you know what the antenna is supposed to be.
> >
> > Dave Lundquist
> > lundquist@ieee.org
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Rourke" <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics
> >
> >
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke
> > <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
> > >
> > > I would agree that an "open circuit" as shown with an ohmmeter is
> > > entirely possible in a properly functioning antenna, but if it shows
>
> > > a dead short of 0 ohms from the shielding to the center conductor, I
>
> > > can't think of any way that antenna could function properly.
> > >
> > > If that is the case, I wouldn't want to initiate any transmission
> > > test until the short is found - although I guess today's
> > > transceivers can handle that, it still just doesn't sound like a
> > > good idea to me. Am I
> > wrong?
> > >
> > > -John R.
> > >
> > > P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought we
>
> > > to have to run such tests?
> > >
> > >
> > > Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> > <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> > > >
> > > > At 09:37 PM 1/4/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Duane Bentley"
> > <dbentley@fuse.net>
> > > >>
> > > >>Maybe I have some new, defective antennas or I don't understand
> > > >>the electronics. I've read Bob's chapter on antenna theory, but
> > > >>don't
> > readily
> > > >>see the answer to my questions.
> > > >>
> > > >>I'm installing the various nav & com antennas on my RV6 and
> > > >>decided to
> > do a
> > > >>continuity check on them before connecting the cables. On the
> > Aeroelectric
> > > >>transponder antenna, at the connector, the inner pin is insulated
> > > >>from
> > the
> > > >>outer, and the inner has continuity with the shaft, all as I
> > > >>would
> > expect.
> > > >>
> > > >>On my Comant VOR/LOC/GS cat wiskers, the ohm meter says the inner
> > > >>pin
> > and
> > > >>outer connector are hooked together somewhere inside and have
> > > >>complete continuity, but the two "whiskers" are insulated from
> > > >>everything.
> > > >>
> > > >>The Comant marker beacon antenna also has continuity between the
> > > >>inner
> > pin
> > > >>and the outer connector shell, but the actual antenna is buried
> > > >>inside
> > the
> > > >>housing and I can't check that out.
> > > >>
> > > >>The bent whip Com antenna is different from the rest. The inner
> > > >>pin
> and
> > > >>outer shell are insulated from each other, but there is also no
> > continuity
> > > >>between the inner pin and the whip.
> > > >>
> > > >>So, are the electronics correct, or do I have some defective
> > > >>antenna?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > As a general rule, antennas cannot always be "tested" with an
> > ohmmeter.
> > > > Some antennas may have matching networks consisting of various
> > > > inductors and capacitors that will make continuity
> measurements
> > > > confusing or meaningless. Active testing by exciting the
> antenna
> > > > with a source at the frequency of interest and measuring
> resistive
> > > > and reactive components (SWR) is the only effective means for
> > > > testing an antenna.
> > > >
> > > > As a general rule also, antennas are quite rugged. I cannot
> > > > recall ever having to replace an antenna that did not suffer
> > > > some catastrophic damage (collision, lighting stroke, etc).
> > > > So if your coax feedlines check out, go ahead and stick
> everything
> > > > together. If you find performance lacking after every thing is
> > installed,
> > > > it is MORE likely that you have a problem with a radio but
> it's
> > > > easy to test the antenna as installed with test equipment that
> > > > will be in the possession of every decent avionics shop.
> > > >
> > > > Bob . . .
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 25
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:07:14 PM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio Master Switch
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 10:40 AM 1/7/2003 +0100, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider"
> ><WernerSchneider@compuserve.com>
> >
> > >
> > > Yup . . . I've seen it, and others like it for
> > > years. I can't remember if I wrote to this particular
> > > author or not. I used to attempt contact with everyone who
> > > published articles touting the virtues of an avionics
> > > master with respect to protecting radios from airplane
> > > gremlins. My question has always been, "Please identify
> > > for me the source, duration and magnitude of any
> > > transient that might endanger the health and well-being
> > > of any piece of electronics.
> > >
> >.
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> > >
> >Just started installing my "things" and I have a used Insight engine
monitor
> >GEM 602 in the installation instructions (Version 3.0 May 1996) Page 6
> >
> >
> >.....If the aircraft installation does not include an Avionics Master
switch
> >circuit or bus, we recommend that one be installed or a separate switch
> >provided to remove power from the Display during engine starts.
> >
> >Should I really follow the separate switch way (tube display) or just
ignore
> >(Bob, do you want the notes in pdf form for asking them =(;o))
>
> What does Insight say are the consequences of not
> waiting until after the engine is started to turn on
> their system? I suspect they've not done their homework
> on a microcontroller and the thing wanders off into the
> weeds during brownout. If this is the case, and you
> want to use the product, put the system on it's own
> power switch and write a procedure into your manual for
> keeping it OFF until after the engine is started.
>
> Had a builder some years ago find that the display
> processor on one of his instruments locked up during
> brownout. He just added a normally closed pushbutton
> next to the instrument that was in series with the
> +14V power. After startup, he would hold the button
> in for a second to interrupt the power and cause the
> processor to do a normal re-set.
>
> Some people put such products on the market thinking
> they can hide their shortcomings behind somebody else's
> avionics master switch. The normally closed push-button
> might be an option for you too . . . you can label
> Push for WAKE UP
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 26
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:13:03 PM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Good price on battery tester
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> Check out the specials/consignment section of
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
> | over the man who cannot read them. |
> | - Mark Twain |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 27
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:42:51 PM PST US
> From: BobsV35B@aol.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Good price on battery tester
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 1/7/03 3:14:04 PM Central Standard Time,
> bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
>
> > Check out the specials/consignment section of
> >
> > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
>
> Good Afternoon Bob,
>
> The battery tester sounds interesting. Is there anything similar
available
> for twenty-four volt batteries?
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 28
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:55:07 PM PST US
> From: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dead Dimmer?
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade"
<sladerj@bellsouth.net>
>
> Bob,
> My dimmer unit (DIM15-14 - came with the gooseneck light) seems to have
> died. It gets hot, but doesnt light the lights. I had this problem a few
> weeks ago, but it came back on. Last week I connected one of the dimmer
> output's to the LEDs which light up my fuel sight guages. It worked fine,
> but now it's acting up again.
> Any suggestions?
> John Slade
> Cozy IV #757
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 29
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:17:43 PM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dead Dimmer?
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 04:52 PM 1/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade"
<sladerj@bellsouth.net>
> >
> >Bob,
> >My dimmer unit (DIM15-14 - came with the gooseneck light) seems to have
> >died. It gets hot, but doesnt light the lights. I had this problem a few
> >weeks ago, but it came back on. Last week I connected one of the dimmer
> >output's to the LEDs which light up my fuel sight guages. It worked fine,
> >but now it's acting up again.
> >Any suggestions?
> >John Slade
> >Cozy IV #757
>
> If the dimmer is getting hot but the light doesn't light
> up, then there is most likely a short circuit that is
> causing the dimmer to go into thermal shutdown. The short
> would have to be in wiring between the dimmer and the
> lamp fixture or in the fixture itself.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 30
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:18:05 PM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Good price on battery tester
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 04:40 PM 1/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
> >
> >In a message dated 1/7/03 3:14:04 PM Central Standard Time,
> >bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
> >
> > > Check out the specials/consignment section of
> > >
> > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> > >
> >
> >Good Afternoon Bob,
> >
> >The battery tester sounds interesting. Is there anything similar
available
> >for twenty-four volt batteries?
> >
> >Happy Skies,
> >
> >Old Bob
>
> Somebody probably makes one for commercial aviation and military
> applications but you can bet it wouldn't be a $240 device. I'm
> not aware of any specific products I can guide you toward . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 31
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:53:50 PM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Masters
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 07:42 AM 1/7/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey"
<glcasey@adelphia.net>
> >
> ><<I was at Cessna when the avionics master was born, and
> > we thought we had a good reason . . . . over the years
> > the reasoning, experience and technology upon which
> > the decision was made are long since gone the way of
> > the buggy whip.
> >
> > Bob . . . >>
> >
> >Just as a point of reference, my Cardinal apparently was equipped with an
> >"avionics master relay" which was a normally closed relay between the
main
> >buss and the avionics buss. The coil was connected to the starter
terminal
> >on the ignition switch so that when the starter was engaged the avionics
> >were turned off. It either only showed up in the service manual, never
> >being installed, or had been removed at some point in its life. Another
> >single point of failure.
> >
> >As far as I can tell there are very minor voltage transients that occur
> >during cranking. The first is when the starter is engaged and the
battery
> >voltage takes a virtually instantaneous drop to some lower voltage.
During
> >cranking the battery voltage will smoothly rise and fall with each
> >compression stroke, accompanied by a ripple voltage from starter
commutator
> >segments. When the starter is released the voltage will step back to a
> >no-load condition, not overshooting. The inductive surge from the
starter
> >exists on the STARTER side of the contactor and doesn't exist at the main
> >buss. Car systems shut off some of the electronics during cranking
because
> >they only need to shut off the heater blower and the electronics were
just
> >hooked to the same switch terminal because it was there.
> >
> >It would be tempting, I suppose, to hook the starter contactor directly
to
> >the battery and leave the master off during cranking. But then there
would
> >be no way to disconnect the starter if the contactor welded.
> >
> >Gary Casey
>
> I've had data acquisition systems tied to perhaps 30 different
> airplanes over the years to look for voltage aberrations. Early
> explorations were with relatively slow chart recorders. Later
> measurements used 8000 sample/second data acquisition adapters
> on a computer. I've never been able to catch a killer starting
> transient in the wild . . . During contactor bounce, there
> are some short fuzzy spikes of very low energy content when
> measured at the bus. If there are any capacitors on the input
> circuits to powered devices, these little fellers disappear
> completely. the next most noted artifact is battery voltage
> at starter inrush current levels that typically pulls the
> battery down to 6 volts or so for about 2 milliseconds. It
> rises quickly as the motor begins to turn an passes 8 volts
> in about 10 milliseconds. After the engine starts and
> the starter is released, there are no significant
> transients when the contactor opens.
>
> Some folks call the inrush artifact a "spike" and indeed
> on the oscilloscope, it's pretty pointy . . . but it's
> relatively long compared to the kinds of real spikes
> that used to trip our ov modules by a factor of 50 or
> more. Further, the negative going excursion stays inside
> the range of voltages any device should expect
> to see in normal operations . . . zero to 15 volts.
>
> I prefer to call it a perfectly acceptable and
> expected effect of hitting the battery with a 1000A
> inrush transient and as such should not be a threat
> to ANY other part of the airplane. DO-160 says so
> too . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 32
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:57:43 PM PST US
> From: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dead Dimmer?
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder
<jschroeder@perigee.net>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> John Slade mentioned that he can run LED's with the dimmer on your
gooseneck
> lamp.
>
> Does the lamp have a LED or LED's?
>
> Can you run more than one light off of the dimmer?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Schroeder
>
> >>My dimmer unit (DIM15-14 - came with the gooseneck light) seems to have
> >>died. It gets hot, but doesnt light the lights. I had this problem a few
> >>weeks ago, but it came back on. Last week I connected one of the dimmer
> >>output's to the LEDs which light up my fuel sight guages. It worked
fine,
> >>but now it's acting up again.
>
> > If the dimmer is getting hot but the light doesn't light
> > ... .>
>
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 33
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:19:52 PM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: CESSNA Cardinal NO AVIONICS MASTER
> From: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman
<dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Funny thing, if Cessna put an avionics master in 100,000 airplanes they
must
> have missed my 1971 Cardinal RG ... or maybe this model was supposed to be
> ahead of it's time?
>
> Starting to wire my Murphy Moose soon and I think I will follow Cessna's
> lead and leave out the avionics master!
>
> Bob, I may be bugging you in the near future with some questions as I
> proceed with my dual alt and single bat system.
>
> Thanks for all the generosity you apply to this list,
>
> Regards,
> Don Boardman & Partner, Randy Bowers
> Murphy Moose #130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-prop, Aerocet 3500 amphibs, Rome, NY
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 34
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:38:48 PM PST US
> From: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dead Dimmer?
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade"
<sladerj@bellsouth.net>
>
> > Does the lamp have a LED or LED's?
> No. Its a very low wattage bulb.
>
> > Can you run more than one light off of the dimmer?
> Bob may give you a more complete answer but yes, you can run any number of
> LED's off the dimmer. It has five outputs. I use one for the fuel gauges,
> one for the transponder / radio lights, one for the panel lights and one
for
> the goose neck light. I still have a spare output. My only complaint,
other
> than the fact that it aint working right now, is that it doesnt dim down
far
> enough.
>
> Off to check my wiring.
> John Slade
>
>
Message 3
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:36 PM 1/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
>
> > Does the lamp have a LED or LED's?
>No. Its a very low wattage bulb.
>
> > Can you run more than one light off of the dimmer?
>Bob may give you a more complete answer but yes, you can run any number of
>LED's off the dimmer. It has five outputs. I use one for the fuel gauges,
>one for the transponder / radio lights, one for the panel lights and one for
>the goose neck light. I still have a spare output. My only complaint, other
>than the fact that it aint working right now, is that it doesnt dim down far
>enough.
>
>Off to check my wiring.
>John Slade
The dimmer was set up for incandescent lights.
Minimum voltage was set for barely usable light
output from a filament-type bulb at about 4 volts.
LED dimming curves will be much different.
If you can tell me what voltage range you'd like
the dimmer to deliver, I can calculate some
new resistors for the setting limits.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: CESSNA Cardinal NO AVIONICS MASTER |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:19 PM 1/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
>
>Hi all,
>
>Funny thing, if Cessna put an avionics master in 100,000 airplanes they must
>have missed my 1971 Cardinal RG ... or maybe this model was supposed to be
>ahead of it's time?
>
>Starting to wire my Murphy Moose soon and I think I will follow Cessna's
>lead and leave out the avionics master!
I believe it was always an option. I used to find it amusing
that Cessna would publish these long lists of "standard" items
in their products that included things like, battery, tires,
seat belts, etc. By the same token, Cessna wasn't real
keen on putting anything on the airplane for free that they
could get more money for. I belive the avionics master was
an option on most if not all the models.
>Bob, I may be bugging you in the near future with some questions as I
>proceed with my dual alt and single bat system.
Put them up here on the list so we can share with everyone.
>Thanks for all the generosity you apply to this list,
My pleasure sir.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna Electronics |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:19 AM 1/8/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>
>"> -John R.>
> > P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought we to >
>have to run such tests?"
>"> . . . . or an antenna analyzer like
> > http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B
> > is handy. Perhaps your EAA chapter could purchase one and
> > rent/loan it to members.> Bob . .
>
>Cheers,
> John, Bob has it quite right. The MFJ259B Antenna Analyzer is
>just the ticket for measuring and adjusting antennas of most sorts -
>including aviation types we are discussing.
> The device was produced for hams who these days pretty-well end
>up building antennas since everything is surface-mount (or worse) in the
>manufactured-unit snese. However, useful as it is (I have one for our radio
>club use), it is MOST sensitive to improper use. In fact if you plug in the
>wallwart power supply with the Analyzer turned on, the surge will cost you
>about $100 to repair. So it is not for average or casual use. Having kicked
>in for the unit, my advice is to let the owner use it - period. He/she is
>the sole caretaker and will doubtless take excellent care of the investment.
>I found a "club" ownership is a ticket to early destruction - even with
>'old' hands.
As I recall, there is a jumper inside that allows you to bypass
the automatic disconnect of batteries when external power supply
is plugged in . . . this lets you charge internal ni-cads from
the external supply.
Simple wallwarts are transformer-rectifiers with a filter
capacitor. When not loaded, they soar to the peak output
voltage value of the rectifier . . . typically half again
higher than loaded value. This can be overly stressful
to circuits not designed to accommodate the condition.
I buy AA cells dirt cheap and never use the external
power supply on my analyzer . . .
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-Pulse charger |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Robinson" <jbr@hitechnetworks.net>
Hi Bob
Thanks for the reply regarding the battery charger. I am not
interested in using it on my batteries for my airplane. I just will
swap one out each year. ( Dual bat/ dual alt system) I do have
regular wet cell batteries for my generator and other things that
seem to die over a time. These are what I was wanting to prolong
the life if possible. It doesn't sound like the process is very
successful from your tests. The ads sure sound good, however. A
thought came to mind as I was writing this. Maybe I will use the
retired aircraft battery each year as a replacement for the generator
start battery.
Jim
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 07:02 AM 1/3/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Robinson"
> ><jbr@hitechnetworks.net>
> >
> >Bob
> >There was a thread awhile back on battery chargers that helped
> >desulfonate a battery to prolong it's life. I wonder what was found
> >out regarding the units. Do they work as stated? Are they worth
> >buying? any suggestions as to brands/ sources? Jim Robinson Glasair
> >79R
>
> I have a sample product that's supposed to recover
> lost capacity in a battery due to sulfation . . . the
> limited testing I've been able to conduct haven't been
> conclusive in support of the claims. I wasn't able
> to recover a battery that was pulled from service
> after it failed to start a car . . . I did see some
> increase in battery capacity for a few cycles of testing.
> I let the battery sit on the shelf for a month with the
> de-sulfater installed . . . took it down and attempted
> to charge and retest . . . battery wouldn't accept any
> significant charge and it's capacity had dropped to
> a few percent of new.
>
> If it were my airplane, I'd still have to opt for
> the new-battery-every-year technique for making sure
> I was carrying the expected reserve capacity.
>
> Dave S. You guys were looking at some de-sulfator
> type products, any new info on that program?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> List members.
> ==
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna Electronics |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Robinson" <jbr@hitechnetworks.net>
Bob
Is there a link to this unit or is it on your web site? I know there was
discussion in the past, but I can't seem to find the post.
Jim
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 09:19 AM 1/8/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle"
> ><VE3LVO@rac.ca>
> >
> >"> -John R.>
> > > P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought
> > > we to >
> >have to run such tests?"
> >"> . . . . or an antenna analyzer like
> > > http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B is
> > > handy. Perhaps your EAA chapter could purchase one and
> > > rent/loan it to members.> Bob . .
> >
> >Cheers,
> > John, Bob has it quite right. The MFJ259B Antenna
> > Analyzer is
> >just the ticket for measuring and adjusting antennas of most sorts -
> >including aviation types we are discussing.
> > The device was produced for hams who these days
> > pretty-well end
> >up building antennas since everything is surface-mount (or worse) in
> >the manufactured-unit snese. However, useful as it is (I have one for
> >our radio club use), it is MOST sensitive to improper use. In fact if
> >you plug in the wallwart power supply with the Analyzer turned on,
> >the surge will cost you about $100 to repair. So it is not for
> >average or casual use. Having kicked in for the unit, my advice is to
> >let the owner use it - period. He/she is the sole caretaker and will
> >doubtless take excellent care of the investment. I found a "club"
> >ownership is a ticket to early destruction - even with 'old' hands.
>
> As I recall, there is a jumper inside that allows you to bypass
> the automatic disconnect of batteries when external power supply
> is plugged in . . . this lets you charge internal ni-cads from the
> external supply.
>
> Simple wallwarts are transformer-rectifiers with a filter
> capacitor. When not loaded, they soar to the peak output
> voltage value of the rectifier . . . typically half again
> higher than loaded value. This can be overly stressful
> to circuits not designed to accommodate the condition.
>
> I buy AA cells dirt cheap and never use the external
> power supply on my analyzer . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> List members.
> ==
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Rotax 912UL alternator output |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Wilson <pwilson@climber.org>
Help me with my thought process before I commit to a second alternator.
From Rotax manual:
At a constant 13.5V from a "battery charging" graph (fluctuations +/-5%)
@4000 rpm ~18 amps
@5000 rpm ~21 amps
@5800 rpm ~22 amps
Then with more detail from a "DC output" chart
@2000 rpm, 8.9 v/12.4 amp max
@4000 rpm, 13.5 v/7.7 amp
@4000 rpm, 12.8 v/17.8 amp max
@5800 rpm, 13.7 v/7.8 amps
@5800 rpm, 12.6 v/20.5 amps max
Rotax recommends cruise at 5000 to 5500 rpms. Interpolating:
@5000 rpm 12.69 v/19.3 amps
@5500 rpm 12.63 v/20.05 amps
The questions are:
- What output level should I use for the load analysis? Any reason
why I could not use 19 to 20 amps as my max output for continuous
operation?
- Why is the "battery charging" graph different than the "DC output" chart?
Thanks for your help, Paul
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 10209 Danielson |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Bob,
>
>Preface: I have had your book for almost 3 years now and havelearned/am
>learning a lot from it.
>
>I am building a Zenithair CH 801 and it is time for me to wire up the tail
>light. The socket that Zenith sells has two big tabs coming out of the
>back, and each is threaded to accept a small screw, so I am guessing the
>intended method of connection is to crimp a ring terminal to the end of my
>16 guage wire and screw it to the tab. I am not too excited by this
>prospect and wondered what your recommendation is?
Why do the screws bother you . . . and why 16AWG wire? 20AWG is
fine for position lights. I'd go ahead and use the screws with
PIDG terminals. I've seen people solder these joints but
they loose insulation support offered by PIDG terminals.
>On the other end of the 2 wires that leave the rudder and enter the
>fuselage, my intention is to use faston receptacles purchased from the
>site, and put a piece of shrinkwrap around them. If you sell the fully
>insulated fastons then I'll use those, otherwise I'll use regular and
>shrinkwrap each one, before I shrinkwrap the pair together. Does that
>sound acceptable?
Use knife splices for service joints. Put shrink
tube over the mated splices. . .
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/wiring.html#s816
>PS I am subscribed to the Zenith list on matronics, but not the
>aeroelectric list. If you desire, I will subscribe and ask my question there.
I would recommend you join the AeroElectric-List. It's always
better to share these conversations with others.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
> If you can tell me what voltage range you'd like
> the dimmer to deliver, I can calculate some
> new resistors for the setting limits.
Cool.
My LED's have 470 ohm resistors in series per you're LED tutorial. Right now
the LED's go from "bright" to "medium". Ideally I'd like them to go all the
way to "off" = i.e. zero or close to it, but "dim" would be fine. I don't
have an easy way to specify a voltage, but I'd guess that if 4 volts gets me
half way, 1 or 2 volts would be good.
John Slade
Message 11
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| Subject: | unusual toggle switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
In my last airplane I had a single switch for both the nav and strobe
lights that was an oddball - double pole double throw, but the pattern was
off-circuit 1 on-circuit 1&2 on. It saved a little panel space. In use,
down was off, middle was position lights, up was position lights and
strobes. Bat handle, .5" mounting hole, metal case.
I got if from the Electric Switch Company on Fischer in LA, but they don't
seem to exist anymore. Anyone know where I might find another one?
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: unusual toggle switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:35 AM 1/8/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
>
>In my last airplane I had a single switch for both the nav and strobe
>lights that was an oddball - double pole double throw, but the pattern was
>off-circuit 1 on-circuit 1&2 on. It saved a little panel space. In use,
>down was off, middle was position lights, up was position lights and
>strobes. Bat handle, .5" mounting hole, metal case.
>
>I got if from the Electric Switch Company on Fischer in LA, but they don't
>seem to exist anymore. Anyone know where I might find another one?
That's called a progressive transfer switch. Our S700-2-10
is such a device. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#switch
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/switches.pdf
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-Pulse charger |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:40 AM 1/8/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Robinson"
><jbr@hitechnetworks.net>
>
>Hi Bob
>Thanks for the reply regarding the battery charger. I am not
>interested in using it on my batteries for my airplane. I just will
>swap one out each year. ( Dual bat/ dual alt system) I do have
>regular wet cell batteries for my generator and other things that
>seem to die over a time. These are what I was wanting to prolong
>the life if possible. It doesn't sound like the process is very
>successful from your tests. The ads sure sound good, however. A
>thought came to mind as I was writing this. Maybe I will use the
>retired aircraft battery each year as a replacement for the generator
>start battery.
>
>Jim
The limited testing I've been able to do was most
informal. If I were wanting to plug something into
a wall to maintain a battery, I'd build
a wall-wart power supply to put out about 13.0
volts. . . . too low to charge the battery but
high enough to prevent self discharge. If
one were to add some form of pulsed-desulfation
device in parallel with this combination, it
probably wouldn't hurt and may well be useful.
There is a lot of literature that supports
the notion . . .
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna Electronics |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:43 AM 1/8/2003 -0800, you wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Robinson"
<jbr@hitechnetworks.net>
Bob
Is there a link to this unit or is it on your web site? I know there was
discussion in the past, but I can't seem to find the post.
Jim
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B
This is a link to the folks that make/sell them. I believe
you can download a copy of the instruction manual for this
piece of equipment to see the ways it can be used.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | mounting specs for the Klixon breakers |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
Though I'm using fuses for most of the systems I'm doing I am ending up
with a couple of breakers. Among other reasons - I already have them :)
Does anyone have the mounting specs for them - hole size, and placement and
size for the anti-rotation tab? Are they the same as the s700 series toggles?
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 10209 Danielson |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
> Why do the screws bother you . . . and why 16AWG wire? 20AWG is
> fine for position lights. I'd go ahead and use the screws with
> PIDG terminals. I've seen people solder these joints but
> they loose insulation support offered by PIDG terminals.
Bob, I have your manual. As we all know, it does not have a cross reference
to make it a very easy-to-use reference source. This recent post forces
some of us to need to check what a PIDG terminal is even though we have run
across it before in our lives. I probably would not be wrong to say it is
in your manual somewhere. But finding it would be easier if there was a
cross reference list.
If I had your manual in electronic form, I could word search for any topic.
OK, without giving away your manual for free and depriving you of future
authorship income, what about having a cross reference list of your manual
on the aerolectric web site for everyone to use at so we could find stuff
more easily in your manual. If anything, showing entries for various topics
will wet the appetite of those not having your nice manual, I think. And
those who own it -- it will be even more valuable.
Indiana Larry
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Master Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider@compuserve.com>
>
> What does Insight say are the consequences of not
> waiting until after the engine is started to turn on
In the troubleshooting section they tell about when the gas plasma screen
goes out during engine start. They refer to valtage transient or over
voltage condition.
> their system? I suspect they've not done their homework
> on a microcontroller and the thing wanders off into the
> weeds during brownout. If this is the case, and you
> want to use the product, put the system on it's own
> power switch and write a procedure into your manual for
> keeping it OFF until after the engine is started.
So I start without a switch and if I have the effects just install a switch.
> avionics master switch. The normally closed push-button
> might be an option for you too . . . you can label
> Push for WAKE UP
=(;o))
I have two other question, they say:
......engine harnesses (probes) should be positioned away from sources of
high energy, such as ignition harnesses,.....
The wires of the probes itself are surounded with a metall shielding. Do I
have a problem, if I bundle this wires partly together with the ignition
harness (same clamp to the rocker box screws)??
The probes I have came with a set out of a crimp pin and and a socket.
Insight seams to have standard wires without any shield and is using ring
terminals with screw to make a connection point on the way from the
instrument to the connector.
My question is now, should I really cut the wires (breaking the shielding)
with one of the methodes above. Or do I have a better setup, if I leave them
intact from the probe to the instrument 30 pin connector?
If you want, I can send you the installation instruction as PDF.
Many thanks for helping us so much with your deep knowledge!
Kind regards
Werner
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: unusual toggle switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 1/8/03 8:39:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, richard@riley.net
writes:
<< In my last airplane I had a single switch for both the nav and strobe
lights that was an oddball - double pole double throw, but the pattern was
off-circuit 1 on-circuit 1&2 on. It saved a little panel space. In use,
down was off, middle was position lights, up was position lights and
strobes. Bat handle, .5" mounting hole, metal case.
I got if from the Electric Switch Company on Fischer in LA, but they don't
seem to exist anymore. Anyone know where I might find another one?
>>
You want a 2-10 switch from B&C Specialty Products, 316-283-800.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, starting firewall forward
Message 19
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|
"aeroelectric-list" <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Soldering torch on sale at Radio Shack thru 2 Feb |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
On my RV-6 I'm splicing in extra lengths of wire (14 or 16 awg - definitely bigger
than 20 or 22) on my Whelen tail/strobe lights so have enough wire for service
loop, etc. for maintenance/light fixture removal, etc. First tried to solder
with a regular soldering gun but got cold solder joints due to wires wiggling
with gun tip physically pressing on the wires.
So, am going to buy a soldering torch - so don't have to physically touch the wires
except with the thin solder strand. Had previously figured the torch was
only for real pros like Bob Nuckolls - now I can see that an amateur like me
needs one, too.
Went to Radio Shack and found they are on sale for $5 off the normal $19.99 price
thru 2 Feb or some such date. Anyone needs one, enjoy the price.
David Carter
RV-6 - about to close the aft fuselage with top aft skins
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna Electronics |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor@chartermi.net>
Most interesting.... I have the 259B and it has nicads inside and an
external charger/power supply... No problems... I plug the external supply
in and out with it on frequently...
Denny - K8DO
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Antenna Electronics
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 09:19 AM 1/8/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
> >
> >"> -John R.>
> > > P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought we
to >
> >have to run such tests?"
> >"> . . . . or an antenna analyzer like
> > > http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B
> > > is handy. Perhaps your EAA chapter could purchase one and
> > > rent/loan it to members.> Bob . .
> >
> >Cheers,
> > John, Bob has it quite right. The MFJ259B Antenna Analyzer
is
> >just the ticket for measuring and adjusting antennas of most sorts -
> >including aviation types we are discussing.
> > The device was produced for hams who these days pretty-well
end
> >up building antennas since everything is surface-mount (or worse) in the
> >manufactured-unit snese. However, useful as it is (I have one for our
radio
> >club use), it is MOST sensitive to improper use. In fact if you plug in
the
> >wallwart power supply with the Analyzer turned on, the surge will cost
you
> >about $100 to repair. So it is not for average or casual use. Having
kicked
> >in for the unit, my advice is to let the owner use it - period. He/she is
> >the sole caretaker and will doubtless take excellent care of the
investment.
> >I found a "club" ownership is a ticket to early destruction - even with
> >'old' hands.
>
> As I recall, there is a jumper inside that allows you to bypass
> the automatic disconnect of batteries when external power supply
> is plugged in . . . this lets you charge internal ni-cads from
> the external supply.
>
> Simple wallwarts are transformer-rectifiers with a filter
> capacitor. When not loaded, they soar to the peak output
> voltage value of the rectifier . . . typically half again
> higher than loaded value. This can be overly stressful
> to circuits not designed to accommodate the condition.
>
> I buy AA cells dirt cheap and never use the external
> power supply on my analyzer . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Soldering torch on sale at Radio Shack thru 2 Feb |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
David Carter wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
>
> On my RV-6 I'm splicing in extra lengths of wire (14 or 16 awg - definitely bigger
than 20 or 22) on my Whelen tail/strobe lights so have enough wire for service
loop, etc. for maintenance/light fixture removal, etc. First tried to
solder with a regular soldering gun but got cold solder joints due to wires wiggling
with gun tip physically pressing on the wires.
>
> So, am going to buy a soldering torch - so don't have to physically touch the
wires except with the thin solder strand. Had previously figured the torch was
only for real pros like Bob Nuckolls - now I can see that an amateur like me
needs one, too.
>
> Went to Radio Shack and found they are on sale for $5 off the normal $19.99 price
thru 2 Feb or some such date. Anyone needs one, enjoy the price.
>
> David Carter
> RV-6 - about to close the aft fuselage with top aft skins
Crimped butt joints work great in situations like this. Only takes a few
seconds to install (even in cramped quarters), is self-insulating, and
less likely to fail than a soldered joint.
Be sure you use the proper, high-quality racheting crimper (about $45.00
and works great with all "Fast-On" terminals).
Sam Buchanan (RV-6)
Message 22
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
Robert Watson mentioned the problem of run away trim in this thread
yesterday.
So the trim is now at the stop and I can't get it back. I'm using constant
manual pressure to fly the aircraft. What is advantage to pulling the power
from the trim? When the servo hits the stop it shuts down so there isn't any
current draw to worry about.
Can any one comment on the failure modes of an electric trim system. I have
a Ray Allen installed for both elevetor and aileron.
Thanks.
Neil Hulin
Construction
Zodiac 601XL
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Trim on e-buss? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Good point. In theory, if you catch the runaway trim in time and pull the
breaker, then you can avoid a full up- or down-trim situation. In
actuality, would I personally catch it in time? Can't say until I fly this
sucker and see how quickly the trim moves and how much force it applies.
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim on e-buss?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
>
> Robert Watson mentioned the problem of run away trim in this thread
> yesterday.
>
> So the trim is now at the stop and I can't get it back. I'm using constant
> manual pressure to fly the aircraft. What is advantage to pulling the
power
> from the trim? When the servo hits the stop it shuts down so there isn't
any
> current draw to worry about.
>
> Can any one comment on the failure modes of an electric trim system. I
have
> a Ray Allen installed for both elevetor and aileron.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Neil Hulin
>
> Construction
> Zodiac 601XL
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Alternator Connection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bbbb Green <rvinfo@juno.com>
I have a Prestolite alternator with two terminals for the field
connection. My question is: Does it matter which wires to which on
these field wires or are they interchangeable? One goes to the regulator
and one goes to the battery, I am just not sure which is which.
Bruce Green
Eagle N110GM
Message 25
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tom Brusehaver <cozytom@mn.rr.com>
Ya know, wiring is easy, it is figuring out where to
mount everything that is starting to worry me.
I have a MB receiver, GS receiver, dimmer, and
other stuff (ground bus). It is a Cozy, so I have
some room, but is there like a shelf system
or something to organize it?
Right now I have the MB receiver mounted
on the one side of the radio rack, and the GS
receiver mounted on the other side. I built a
box for the dimmer, and am thinking of mounting
it next to the MB receiver. The Ground bus is
on the wall above the passengers legs. The sensor
wiring (canopy, LG, throttle, etc) terminal strip
is on the pilot side wall.
Oh yea, and what are people doing for post lights.
Like how do they get wired? Daisy chain, or all the
wires to a terminal strip?
Any ideas are welcome.
Message 26
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| Subject: | New Survey: what's on your bus? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
If you have a moment, I kindly ask that you take this quick survey (just a
few clicks required) which asks what you have (or will have) on your various
electrical busses:
http://www.rvproject.com/buspoll/
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: New Survey: what's on your bus? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Dan I applaud your efforts here as I am struggling with these same
options- Everybody be sure & chime in here as I could sure use the
opinions... y'all DO have opinions, dontcha?!
From electron purgatory at The PossumWorks
Mark -6A - do not archive -
Dan Checkoway wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> If you have a moment, I kindly ask that you take this quick survey (just a
> few clicks required) which asks what you have (or will have) on your various
> electrical busses:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/buspoll/
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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