Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:52 AM - Re: New Survey: what's on your bus? (John Schroeder)
2. 06:26 AM - Re: Mounting stuff (John Slade)
3. 07:53 AM - Re: FS: Bendex electric AI (N823ms@aol.com)
4. 08:12 AM - RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment (Rob Miller)
5. 08:15 AM - Re: Dead Dimmer? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 08:15 AM - wiring differences (Werner Schneider)
7. 08:29 AM - Re: Indexing the 'Connection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 08:33 AM - Re: Dead Dimmer? (John Slade)
9. 09:01 AM - Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment (N823ms@aol.com)
10. 11:02 AM - Re: Dead Dimmer? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 11:29 AM - Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment (Scot Stambaugh)
12. 11:41 AM - Re: Dead Dimmer? (John Slade)
13. 11:47 AM - Low Voltage Monitor (Mark Phillips)
14. 11:59 AM - Affordable time-delay (Mark Phillips)
15. 01:07 PM - Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment (Ron Raby)
16. 01:11 PM - Re: Affordable time-delay (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
17. 01:49 PM - Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment (I-Blackler, Wayne R)
18. 02:09 PM - Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment (Rob Miller)
19. 02:12 PM - Re: Low Voltage Monitor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 02:14 PM - Re: Dead Dimmer? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 03:40 PM - Fuel pump wiring (I-Blackler, Wayne R)
22. 05:18 PM - Re: Affordable time-delay (David Lundquist)
23. 05:36 PM - Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment (N823ms@aol.com)
24. 06:23 PM - Re: Mounting stuff (Tom Brusehaver)
25. 06:28 PM - Re: Affordable time-delay (Charlie and Tupper England)
26. 07:01 PM - Re: Affordable time-delay (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
27. 07:52 PM - Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment (richard@riley.net)
28. 08:39 PM - Re: Fuel pump wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
29. 09:06 PM - Solder Sleeves (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
30. 09:07 PM - Re: Alternator Connection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
31. 11:17 PM - Re: Affordable time-delay (Mark Phillips)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: New Survey: what's on your bus? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Dan -
What a super, wonderful idea!!! Great job! I did not fill out the questionaire
because I was not able to provide much useable information. We are doing Bob's
Z-14 power distribution plan (dual battery and dual alternator). However, it
would be a great tool to gather data from folks and build a superb database for
future, and present, builders to view. My guess is that you already have the
basic framework but with some modifications you could build the data on Bob's
series of Z diagrams and people could view the data from several builders who
are using a particular diagram.
Bob already has had a number of folks submit their data on various Z's and an
on-line database would really be an asset.
Email me off line if you want to discuss further.
If you don't have the time, perhaps someone else on this list would consider
taking it on.
Cheers,
John Schroeder
>If you have a moment, I kindly ask that you take this quick survey (just a
>few clicks required) which asks what you have (or will have) on your various
>electrical busses:
>
>http://www.rvproject.com/buspoll/
>
>Thanks in advance,
>)_( Dan
>
Message 2
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
> it is figuring out where to
> mount everything that is starting to worry me.
I have the same problem, Tom. Even though the Cozy is fairly big I'm running
out of room for stuff. Maybe I have too much stuff :) I can't imaging how
the LongEz types squeeze everything in.
My MB is on the passenger wall below the airvent.
The ground bus is on the rear of the panel just above the lower wire inlet.
The encoder is attached to the bottom of the radio stack frame
On the pilot side wall is the parking brake and the trim / landing brake
relay
The dimmer is behind the top center of the panel tucked under the defrost
vent
Most of the sensor wiring will go on the forward side of the firewall
(the firewall is getting pretty full too)
I can't find an ideal spot on the panel for the voice annunciator.
I'm thinking of building a horizontal frame between the IP and F22 in the
center for additional stuff.
> Oh yea, and what are people doing for post lights.
> Like how do they get wired? Daisy chain, or all the
> wires to a terminal strip?
I'm using LED's daisy chained.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: FS: Bendex electric AI |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N823ms@aol.com
In a message dated 01/06/2003 6:43:44 AM Central Standard Time,
neilmcleod@direcway.com writes:
> > I have ended up with a spare electric AI. The bad news is that it's 110v
> > 400hz 3 phase. The good news is that the inverters are available from
> > http://freespace.virgin.net/andy.wright617/ for $160.
> >
> > The one I have is a Bendex#1978130-1, cageable with a full ball
> > display. Removed as serviceable and kept as a serviceable spare with a
> > yellow tag, sealed with desiccant and caged. I'm told it's mounted in an
> > ATI-3 rack.
> >
>
I would like photos as well of your AI gauge.
Thanks,
Ed SIlvanic
N823MS@aol.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rob Miller <rmill2000@yahoo.com>
Hi listers
After completing some electronic installations in the "Bad Cat." I
thought I needed to express my utter disappointment with my brand new RC
Allen Artificial Horizon. After nearly $2,000, the unit worked for about
an hour, then rolled over and died. It came back to life several times
only to die once again. No flag came up, nothing, just erroneous info
that could have had dire results had I been in the clouds. The unit was
returned to the avionics shop where it is being repaired--I can hardly
wait.
Also, the horizon came with absolutely no paperwork. No warranty details,
installation info, or even a "thank you for buying our product" note. I
even had to spend $35 on a connector to hook up power--I feel this should
have been included.
In short, Dynon, Blue Mountain, and anyone else out there, please get your
product to the marketplace and give us consumers a choice. The better
mousetrap must be right around the corner.
Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 40 hrs.
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:24 AM 1/8/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
>
> > If you can tell me what voltage range you'd like
> > the dimmer to deliver, I can calculate some
> > new resistors for the setting limits.
>
>Cool.
>My LED's have 470 ohm resistors in series per you're LED tutorial. Right now
>the LED's go from "bright" to "medium". Ideally I'd like them to go all the
>way to "off" = i.e. zero or close to it, but "dim" would be fine. I don't
>have an easy way to specify a voltage, but I'd guess that if 4 volts gets me
>half way, 1 or 2 volts would be good.
The purpose of not taking the voltage to zero at bottom of
potentiometer travel is to make use of the control's full
travel. Many designs take illumination voltage to zero at
max ccw travel. This means that you turn the pot quite a way
before there is any useful light output . . . I.e., that amount
of travel is not useful for control.
LED's are relatively constant voltage devices but they vary
between colors. Red LEDs are lowest voltage devices that come
on at about 2 volts. Sooo . . to modify a stock dimmer for
a 2 to 12 volt adjustment range, the 909 ohm resistor in
series with the control pot changes to 220 ohms, the 392 ohm
resistor changes to 330 ohms.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | wiring differences |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider@compuserve.com>
Hello Bob,
I've the LR-3 Voltage Regulator from B&C, now I see some difference between
the wiring in your Z-x diagramms and the delivered installation
instructions for the regulator. The wires (FLD) (7) and case GND are 2
gauges smaller in your diag (AWG22) as in the intructions (AWG20). I've done
it with Z-11 in my hands, can this cause any problems?
Further, is it correct, that I should size the wire from the alternator to
the
starter contactor according the Alternator size?
eg. a 40 Amp 8 awg
a 60 Amp 6 awg
Many thanks for a clarification.
Werner
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Indexing the 'Connection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:18 PM 1/8/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
><lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
> > Why do the screws bother you . . . and why 16AWG wire? 20AWG is
> > fine for position lights. I'd go ahead and use the screws with
> > PIDG terminals. I've seen people solder these joints but
> > they loose insulation support offered by PIDG terminals.
>
>
>Bob, I have your manual. As we all know, it does not have a cross reference
>to make it a very easy-to-use reference source. This recent post forces
>some of us to need to check what a PIDG terminal is even though we have run
>across it before in our lives. I probably would not be wrong to say it is
>in your manual somewhere. But finding it would be easier if there was a
>cross reference list.
>
>If I had your manual in electronic form, I could word search for any topic.
>OK, without giving away your manual for free and depriving you of future
>authorship income, what about having a cross reference list of your manual
>on the aerolectric web site for everyone to use at so we could find stuff
>more easily in your manual. If anything, showing entries for various topics
>will wet the appetite of those not having your nice manual, I think. And
>those who own it -- it will be even more valuable.
Understand . . . in its present form, doing a credible
index a a pretty big task. Some chapters are original
and still in WordStar. Each chapter is a stand-alone
document in the word processor so I can't take advantage
the automatic indexing feature present in most modern
word processors.
There are chapters yet to be written and I have hopes
of one getting the entire document into a single
file so that it can be published in a .pdf format
that would make searches possible. Can't tell you
when all this will happen . . . if I had nothing
else to work on, it would happen sooner but as long
as the AeroElectric Connection remains a hobby that
makes a little money, grandest plans for the future
aren't going to move to the front burner soon.
Sorry.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
> to modify a stock dimmer for
> a 2 to 12 volt adjustment range, the 909 ohm resistor in
> series with the control pot changes to 220 ohms, the 392 ohm
> resistor changes to 330 ohms.
Hmmm. Sounds easy, except that I don't know where those resistors are.
Looking at the back of the circuit board I see 2 tiny little black things
and 2 tenny tiny little black things. Could these be they?
Regards,
John Slade
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N823ms@aol.com
Rob:
I could not agree more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards,
Ed Silvanic
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:32 AM 1/9/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
>
> > to modify a stock dimmer for
> > a 2 to 12 volt adjustment range, the 909 ohm resistor in
> > series with the control pot changes to 220 ohms, the 392 ohm
> > resistor changes to 330 ohms.
>Hmmm. Sounds easy, except that I don't know where those resistors are.
>Looking at the back of the circuit board I see 2 tiny little black things
>and 2 tenny tiny little black things. Could these be they?
that's them . . . you can use 1/4w wired resistors and
tack solder them to the traces on the ECB so that
they replace the surface mounted devices.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scot Stambaugh <sstambaugh@qualcomm.com>
Except for the failure part I had the same experience with my new TC.
- no documents
-no power cord
-no mounting hardware
-no thank you
Must be nice to be able to provide terrible service and a marginal product
and still have good sales. My TC is a backup unit as I have the Sierra
Flight systems EFIS 2000 in my Rocket. Very cool stuff and, I suspect, 100
times more reliable than the backup mechanical units(TC, Altimeter,
ASI). Panel pictures at:
http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com/photo/Scot%20Stambaugh/index.html
Scot
At 08:12 AM 1/9/2003, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rob Miller <rmill2000@yahoo.com>
>
>Hi listers
>
>After completing some electronic installations in the "Bad Cat." I
>thought I needed to express my utter disappointment with my brand new RC
>Allen Artificial Horizon. After nearly $2,000, the unit worked for about
>an hour, then rolled over and died. It came back to life several times
>only to die once again. No flag came up, nothing, just erroneous info
>that could have had dire results had I been in the clouds. The unit was
>returned to the avionics shop where it is being repaired--I can hardly
>wait.
>
>Also, the horizon came with absolutely no paperwork. No warranty details,
>installation info, or even a "thank you for buying our product" note. I
>even had to spend $35 on a connector to hook up power--I feel this should
>have been included.
>
>In short, Dynon, Blue Mountain, and anyone else out there, please get your
>product to the marketplace and give us consumers a choice. The better
>mousetrap must be right around the corner.
>
>Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 40 hrs.
>
>
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
> > > to modify a stock dimmer for
> > > a 2 to 12 volt adjustment range, the 909 ohm resistor in
> > > series with the control pot changes to 220 ohms, the 392 ohm
> > > resistor changes to 330 ohms.
> >Hmmm. Sounds easy, except that I don't know where those resistors are.
> >Looking at the back of the circuit board I see 2 tiny little black things
> >and 2 tenny tiny little black things. Could these be they?
>
> that's them . . . you can use 1/4w wired resistors and
> tack solder them to the traces on the ECB so that
> they replace the surface mounted devices.
OK. I can do that. I have to change 2 of the 4. Which is which?
Message 13
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| Subject: | Low Voltage Monitor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Any new info on price/availability of the new AEC9005-201/202 modules?
Could not find in B&C catalog or referenced on the Aeroelectric site...
Thanks & do not archive !
Mark Phillips
Message 14
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| Subject: | Affordable time-delay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Here's one for you gadget design junkies- I have reed type float
switches in each tank that should close at about 1/3 fuel remaining
(RV-6A) to turn on low fuel annunciator lamps. I'd like to feed these
with a time delay so they don't flicker continuously as they transition
from off to on- I'm thinking maybe a 10 sec. to 30 sec. delay would
probably be suitable. I have looked for commercial timing relays and
their size, weight & price will take yer breath away! Is there a
reasonably simple way to employ an IC type timer (555 chip?) - I don't
pretend to understand this stuff and would prefer to get the airplane
finished than learn IC design & use! Maybe after it flies, but would
like to install this circuit as the system goes together.
Thanks from The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron Raby" <ronr@advanceddesign.com>
I was about to write the check for my artificial horizon, tc etc. I was
going to buy rc allen. Now I have second thoughts. Any recommendations? my
plan was to go with all electric guages, then upgrade to a glass panel
system down the road.
Ron Raby
Lancair ES
N829R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scot Stambaugh" <sstambaugh@qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scot Stambaugh
<sstambaugh@qualcomm.com>
>
> Except for the failure part I had the same experience with my new TC.
> - no documents
> -no power cord
> -no mounting hardware
> -no thank you
>
> Must be nice to be able to provide terrible service and a marginal product
> and still have good sales. My TC is a backup unit as I have the Sierra
> Flight systems EFIS 2000 in my Rocket. Very cool stuff and, I suspect,
100
> times more reliable than the backup mechanical units(TC, Altimeter,
> ASI). Panel pictures at:
> http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com/photo/Scot%20Stambaugh/index.html
>
> Scot
>
>
> At 08:12 AM 1/9/2003, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rob Miller <rmill2000@yahoo.com>
> >
> >Hi listers
> >
> >After completing some electronic installations in the "Bad Cat." I
> >thought I needed to express my utter disappointment with my brand new RC
> >Allen Artificial Horizon. After nearly $2,000, the unit worked for about
> >an hour, then rolled over and died. It came back to life several times
> >only to die once again. No flag came up, nothing, just erroneous info
> >that could have had dire results had I been in the clouds. The unit was
> >returned to the avionics shop where it is being repaired--I can hardly
> >wait.
> >
> >Also, the horizon came with absolutely no paperwork. No warranty
details,
> >installation info, or even a "thank you for buying our product" note. I
> >even had to spend $35 on a connector to hook up power--I feel this should
> >have been included.
> >
> >In short, Dynon, Blue Mountain, and anyone else out there, please get
your
> >product to the marketplace and give us consumers a choice. The better
> >mousetrap must be right around the corner.
> >
> >Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 40 hrs.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Affordable time-delay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
In a message dated 1/9/2003 3:00:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ripsteel@edge.net writes:
> Here's one for you gadget design junkies- I have reed type float
> switches in each tank that should close at about 1/3 fuel remaining
> (RV-6A) to turn on low fuel annunciator lamps. I'd like to feed these
> with a time delay so they don't flicker continuously as they transition
> from off to on- I'm thinking maybe a 10 sec. to 30 sec. delay would
> probably be suitable. I have looked for commercial timing relays and
> their size, weight &price will take yer breath away! Is there a
> reasonably simple way to employ an IC type timer (555 chip?) - I don't
> pretend to understand this stuff and would prefer to get the airplane
> finished than learn IC design &use! Maybe after it flies, but would
> like to install this circuit as the system goes together.
>
> Thanks from The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark Phillips do not archive
>
>
Mark,
Better than that, I have a few timer/relay modules built around the 555 in
stock for general use in several configurations. They can be set up to
control an on board relay via dip switch settings and a disc pot. for a delay
on, delay off, momentary pulse trip, count down or count up timer/relay,
etc., etc. If you send me your address off list I will send you one or two
to play with. They are very inexpensive but reliable, light weight and have
a six point terminal strip for all connections.
John
Message 17
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| Subject: | RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "I-Blackler, Wayne R" <wayne.blackler@boeing.com>
G'Day Ron and list,
In most cases, in terms of current glass panel systems, failure would apply
to ASI, AH, Altimeter, TC, VSI and compass as a minimum. Not just your AH.
In terms of qualification (without backup), I would require that an
experimental glass panel have a probability of failure less than or equal to
the combined standard T primary instruments (electric).
In terms of the instrument itself, a failure analysis would have been
undertaken as part of the TSO process. I wouldn't consider a failure in the
first hour to be very common! Particularly an electric unit. In terms of
vacuum AH's, statistically Vac pump failure is FAR more probable than the
instrument itself.
I purchased an RC Allen electric AH with inclinometer, internal lighting and
8 degree tilt at OSH '02. This is for a VFR experimental aircraft installed
for safety - I am an inexperienced pilot, flying in Seattle. I'm glad I
bought it.
Cheers
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Raby [mailto:ronr@advanceddesign.com]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron Raby"
<ronr@advanceddesign.com>
I was about to write the check for my artificial horizon, tc etc. I was
going to buy rc allen. Now I have second thoughts. Any recommendations? my
plan was to go with all electric guages, then upgrade to a glass panel
system down the road.
Ron Raby
Lancair ES
N829R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scot Stambaugh" <sstambaugh@qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scot Stambaugh
<sstambaugh@qualcomm.com>
>
> Except for the failure part I had the same experience with my new TC.
> - no documents
> -no power cord
> -no mounting hardware
> -no thank you
>
> Must be nice to be able to provide terrible service and a marginal product
> and still have good sales. My TC is a backup unit as I have the Sierra
> Flight systems EFIS 2000 in my Rocket. Very cool stuff and, I suspect,
100
> times more reliable than the backup mechanical units(TC, Altimeter,
> ASI). Panel pictures at:
> http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com/photo/Scot%20Stambaugh/index.html
>
> Scot
>
>
> At 08:12 AM 1/9/2003, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rob Miller <rmill2000@yahoo.com>
> >
> >Hi listers
> >
> >After completing some electronic installations in the "Bad Cat." I
> >thought I needed to express my utter disappointment with my brand new RC
> >Allen Artificial Horizon. After nearly $2,000, the unit worked for about
> >an hour, then rolled over and died. It came back to life several times
> >only to die once again. No flag came up, nothing, just erroneous info
> >that could have had dire results had I been in the clouds. The unit was
> >returned to the avionics shop where it is being repaired--I can hardly
> >wait.
> >
> >Also, the horizon came with absolutely no paperwork. No warranty
details,
> >installation info, or even a "thank you for buying our product" note. I
> >even had to spend $35 on a connector to hook up power--I feel this should
> >have been included.
> >
> >In short, Dynon, Blue Mountain, and anyone else out there, please get
your
> >product to the marketplace and give us consumers a choice. The better
> >mousetrap must be right around the corner.
> >
> >Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 40 hrs.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rob Miller <rmill2000@yahoo.com>
Ron
I had this gut feeling that this was a poor purchase going in. You know,
that sick to the stomach feeling one gets when they suspect they are
paying a lot for a product of dubious quality. Well, that feeling hasn't
gone away.
Rob Miller <----Preparing to kick self
--- Ron Raby <ronr@advanceddesign.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron Raby"
> <ronr@advanceddesign.com>
>
> I was about to write the check for my artificial horizon, tc etc. I was
> going to buy rc allen. Now I have second thoughts. Any recommendations?
> my
> plan was to go with all electric guages, then upgrade to a glass panel
> system down the road.
>
> Ron Raby
>
> Lancair ES
> N829R
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scot Stambaugh" <sstambaugh@qualcomm.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scot Stambaugh
> <sstambaugh@qualcomm.com>
> >
> > Except for the failure part I had the same experience with my new TC.
> > - no documents
> > -no power cord
> > -no mounting hardware
> > -no thank you
> >
> > Must be nice to be able to provide terrible service and a marginal
> product
> > and still have good sales. My TC is a backup unit as I have the
> Sierra
> > Flight systems EFIS 2000 in my Rocket. Very cool stuff and, I
> suspect,
> 100
> > times more reliable than the backup mechanical units(TC, Altimeter,
> > ASI). Panel pictures at:
> > http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com/photo/Scot%20Stambaugh/index.html
> >
> > Scot
> >
> >
> > At 08:12 AM 1/9/2003, you wrote:
> > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rob Miller
> <rmill2000@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > >Hi listers
> > >
> > >After completing some electronic installations in the "Bad Cat." I
> > >thought I needed to express my utter disappointment with my brand new
> RC
> > >Allen Artificial Horizon. After nearly $2,000, the unit worked for
> about
> > >an hour, then rolled over and died. It came back to life several
> times
> > >only to die once again. No flag came up, nothing, just erroneous
> info
> > >that could have had dire results had I been in the clouds. The unit
> was
> > >returned to the avionics shop where it is being repaired--I can
> hardly
> > >wait.
> > >
> > >Also, the horizon came with absolutely no paperwork. No warranty
> details,
> > >installation info, or even a "thank you for buying our product" note.
> I
> > >even had to spend $35 on a connector to hook up power--I feel this
> should
> > >have been included.
> > >
> > >In short, Dynon, Blue Mountain, and anyone else out there, please get
> your
> > >product to the marketplace and give us consumers a choice. The
> better
> > >mousetrap must be right around the corner.
> > >
> > >Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 40 hrs.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Low Voltage Monitor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:43 PM 1/9/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
>Any new info on price/availability of the new AEC9005-201/202 modules?
>
>Could not find in B&C catalog or referenced on the Aeroelectric site...
Just put them up on the website. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
We're finishing up 15 ship sets . . .
Bob . . .
Message 20
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:40 PM 1/9/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
>
> > > > to modify a stock dimmer for
> > > > a 2 to 12 volt adjustment range, the 909 ohm resistor in
> > > > series with the control pot changes to 220 ohms, the 392 ohm
> > > > resistor changes to 330 ohms.
> > >Hmmm. Sounds easy, except that I don't know where those resistors are.
> > >Looking at the back of the circuit board I see 2 tiny little black things
> > >and 2 tenny tiny little black things. Could these be they?
> >
> > that's them . . . you can use 1/4w wired resistors and
> > tack solder them to the traces on the ECB so that
> > they replace the surface mounted devices.
>OK. I can do that. I have to change 2 of the 4. Which is which?
Two devices are resistors . . . mounted apart from the
others. Two are capacitors mounted side-by-side.
The resistors are usually installed with the number
facing up. One will be marked 392 the other 909 . . . these
are the ones that need to be replaced.
Bob . . .
Message 21
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| Subject: | Fuel pump wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "I-Blackler, Wayne R" <wayne.blackler@boeing.com>
Bob,
I have the Airflow Performance Fuel Injection system on my IO360 powered
Long EZ. The literature on the supplied electric fuel pump states the use of
16AWG wiring, and a 7A to 10A breaker. I had a feeling that the continuous
duty current for the MIL-W-22759 used on the cold side of the firewall would
have been more like 15A, maybe more in reality. The wire run is short.
Unfortunately, I don't have any specifications on the electric motor used to
make an educated determination. What's your recommendation?
Cheers
Wayne Blackler
IO-360 Long EZ
Seattle, USA
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Affordable time-delay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: David Lundquist <lundquist@ieee.org>
Mark,
I didn't see any other responses so I thought I offer a few comments of my
own. I think you fundamental problems is that these switches are going to
be going on an off a LOT around the threshold. It isn't so much a delay you
need but an averager, then a level slicer with some hysteresis. Here's why:
As the fuel sloshes around, I think you will see switch activity over a
pretty wide range. The key thing is that at some nominal level, the switch
will be on an average of 50% of the time. In order to see a good steady
average though you are going to have to average probably over a time period
of many seconds. 20 or 30 I would guess is about right.
Once you have an average you still aren't really done. You will still see
the average value wander around as the fuel moves. So with just averaging
and a 50% on time threshold I'd still anticipate that you will see quite a
few on/off cycles as the average goes back and forth above and below 50%.
This is where hysteresis comes in. A hysteresis funcition will change the
threshold depending on the state of your lamp. For example we might decide
to turn the lamp on when the switch is on an average of 60% of the time. As
soon as it turns on though, we would require the switch average on time to
be 40% or so to turn it off. This should ensure that once it turns on, any
sloshing wont turn it back off.
The circuitry to do this isn't really very complicated. If you are the
slightest bit handy with a soldering iron I could sketch something up that
should do the trick. Probably just a single op-amp lowpass filter and a
comparator with hysteresis.
As an aside, you can probably see that a "digital" fuel sensor is really not
the best way to go. An analog resistive sender produces a much easier to
deal with signal that is more suited to averaging. If you are using
resistive senders the same circuit in fact could just tap off them to
produce the same low fuel warning. The only advantage I can see with the
switches is that it would give you an independent warning of low fuel.
Regards,
Dave Lundquist
'77 Cessna 150M
RV-6 Wings.
lundquist@ieee.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <ripsteel@edge.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Affordable time-delay
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
> Here's one for you gadget design junkies- I have reed type float
> switches in each tank that should close at about 1/3 fuel remaining
> (RV-6A) to turn on low fuel annunciator lamps. I'd like to feed these
> with a time delay so they don't flicker continuously as they transition
> from off to on- I'm thinking maybe a 10 sec. to 30 sec. delay would
> probably be suitable. I have looked for commercial timing relays and
> their size, weight & price will take yer breath away! Is there a
> reasonably simple way to employ an IC type timer (555 chip?) - I don't
> pretend to understand this stuff and would prefer to get the airplane
> finished than learn IC design & use! Maybe after it flies, but would
> like to install this circuit as the system goes together.
>
> Thanks from The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark Phillips do not archive
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N823ms@aol.com
In a message dated 01/09/2003 3:08:50 PM Central Standard Time,
ronr@advanceddesign.com writes:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron Raby" <ronr@advanceddesign.com>
>
>
> I was about to write the check for my artificial horizon, tc etc. I was
> going to buy rc allen. Now I have second thoughts. Any recommendations? my
> plan was to go with all electric gauges, then upgrade to a glass panel
> system down the road.
>
> Ron Raby
>
> Lancair ES
> N829R
>
>
Ron:
Remember, I am building a Lancair ES too. I going with the Falcon
gauges for my AI/DG, electric. Rick Davis at electronics Technologies can
probably get both gauges for the money you spend on one RC Allen. I will be
using these as part of my primary six pack until Dynon EFIS -10 is completed.
$1995.00. Look at Dynondevelopment.com and get on the list to at least secure
the price when it comes available. If at that time you choose not to, no
harm. I'll use these as backup gauges when it comes. I am also looking
control vision iPAQ 3950 as a backup to the EFIS. I have forward your letter
to Rick, however, his E-mail is etech@ucnsb.net.
Ed Silvanic
Lancair ES
N823MS@aol.com
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Mounting stuff |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tom Brusehaver <cozytom@mn.rr.com>
Thanks, There were a bunch of things I forgot,
I put the encoder under the rack too, then there
is the fuse block, and various other terminal
strips too.
Putting stuff on the firewall sounds like a good
idea, tho. I'll give it a chance.
John Slade wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
>
>>it is figuring out where to
>>mount everything that is starting to worry me.
>>
> I have the same problem, Tom. Even though the Cozy is fairly big I'm running
> out of room for stuff. Maybe I have too much stuff :) I can't imaging how
> the LongEz types squeeze everything in.
>
> My MB is on the passenger wall below the airvent.
> The ground bus is on the rear of the panel just above the lower wire inlet.
> The encoder is attached to the bottom of the radio stack frame
> On the pilot side wall is the parking brake and the trim / landing brake
> relay
> The dimmer is behind the top center of the panel tucked under the defrost
> vent
> Most of the sensor wiring will go on the forward side of the firewall
> (the firewall is getting pretty full too)
> I can't find an ideal spot on the panel for the voice annunciator.
> I'm thinking of building a horizontal frame between the IP and F22 in the
> center for additional stuff.
>
>
>>Oh yea, and what are people doing for post lights.
>>Like how do they get wired? Daisy chain, or all the
>>wires to a terminal strip?
>>
> I'm using LED's daisy chained.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Affordable time-delay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
Mark Phillips wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
> Here's one for you gadget design junkies- I have reed type float
> switches in each tank that should close at about 1/3 fuel remaining
> (RV-6A) to turn on low fuel annunciator lamps. I'd like to feed these
> with a time delay so they don't flicker continuously as they transition
> from off to on- I'm thinking maybe a 10 sec. to 30 sec. delay would
> probably be suitable. I have looked for commercial timing relays and
> their size, weight & price will take yer breath away! Is there a
> reasonably simple way to employ an IC type timer (555 chip?) - I don't
> pretend to understand this stuff and would prefer to get the airplane
> finished than learn IC design & use! Maybe after it flies, but would
> like to install this circuit as the system goes together.
>
> Thanks from The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark Phillips do not archive
>
>
You could do it with a resistor-capacitor network, but have you considered the
simple brute-force method? Mount the reed switch in a tube with tiny holes at
the top & bottom. The time constant is supplied by the slow fill time through
the tiny hole.
This has the added advantage of fewer components to fail.
Charlie
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Affordable time-delay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:27 PM 1/9/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie and Tupper England
><cengland@netdoor.com>
>
>Mark Phillips wrote:
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
> >
> > Here's one for you gadget design junkies- I have reed type float
> > switches in each tank that should close at about 1/3 fuel remaining
> > (RV-6A) to turn on low fuel annunciator lamps. I'd like to feed these
> > with a time delay so they don't flicker continuously as they transition
> > from off to on- I'm thinking maybe a 10 sec. to 30 sec. delay would
> > probably be suitable. I have looked for commercial timing relays and
> > their size, weight & price will take yer breath away! Is there a
> > reasonably simple way to employ an IC type timer (555 chip?) - I don't
> > pretend to understand this stuff and would prefer to get the airplane
> > finished than learn IC design & use! Maybe after it flies, but would
> > like to install this circuit as the system goes together.
> >
> > Thanks from The PossumWorks in TN
> > Mark Phillips do not archive
> >
> >
>
>You could do it with a resistor-capacitor network, but have you
>considered the
>simple brute-force method? Mount the reed switch in a tube with tiny holes at
>the top & bottom. The time constant is supplied by the slow fill time through
>the tiny hole.
>
>This has the added advantage of fewer components to fail.
You beat me to it Charlie . . . an elegant solution
I think . . .
Bob . . .
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
My BlueMountain EFIS 1 was delivered today. I'll be reporting as I install it.
At 04:03 PM 1/9/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron Raby" <ronr@advanceddesign.com>
>
>I was about to write the check for my artificial horizon, tc etc. I was
>going to buy rc allen. Now I have second thoughts. Any recommendations? my
>plan was to go with all electric guages, then upgrade to a glass panel
>system down the road.
>
>Ron Raby
>
>Lancair ES
>N829R
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Scot Stambaugh" <sstambaugh@qualcomm.com>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scot Stambaugh
><sstambaugh@qualcomm.com>
> >
> > Except for the failure part I had the same experience with my new TC.
> > - no documents
> > -no power cord
> > -no mounting hardware
> > -no thank you
> >
> > Must be nice to be able to provide terrible service and a marginal product
> > and still have good sales. My TC is a backup unit as I have the Sierra
> > Flight systems EFIS 2000 in my Rocket. Very cool stuff and, I suspect,
>100
> > times more reliable than the backup mechanical units(TC, Altimeter,
> > ASI). Panel pictures at:
> > http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com/photo/Scot%20Stambaugh/index.html
> >
> > Scot
> >
> >
> > At 08:12 AM 1/9/2003, you wrote:
> > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rob Miller <rmill2000@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > >Hi listers
> > >
> > >After completing some electronic installations in the "Bad Cat." I
> > >thought I needed to express my utter disappointment with my brand new RC
> > >Allen Artificial Horizon. After nearly $2,000, the unit worked for about
> > >an hour, then rolled over and died. It came back to life several times
> > >only to die once again. No flag came up, nothing, just erroneous info
> > >that could have had dire results had I been in the clouds. The unit was
> > >returned to the avionics shop where it is being repaired--I can hardly
> > >wait.
> > >
> > >Also, the horizon came with absolutely no paperwork. No warranty
>details,
> > >installation info, or even a "thank you for buying our product" note. I
> > >even had to spend $35 on a connector to hook up power--I feel this should
> > >have been included.
> > >
> > >In short, Dynon, Blue Mountain, and anyone else out there, please get
>your
> > >product to the marketplace and give us consumers a choice. The better
> > >mousetrap must be right around the corner.
> > >
> > >Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 40 hrs.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:39 PM 1/9/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "I-Blackler, Wayne R"
><wayne.blackler@boeing.com>
>
>Bob,
>
>I have the Airflow Performance Fuel Injection system on my IO360 powered
>Long EZ. The literature on the supplied electric fuel pump states the use of
>16AWG wiring, and a 7A to 10A breaker. I had a feeling that the continuous
>duty current for the MIL-W-22759 used on the cold side of the firewall would
>have been more like 15A, maybe more in reality. The wire run is short.
>Unfortunately, I don't have any specifications on the electric motor used to
>make an educated determination. What's your recommendation?
16AWG isn't TOO big. Go ahead and put 16AWG wire in, then
when you're flying, let's get some REAL current measurements
and see what size protection is appropriate. You can put 10A
protection in to start and then let's see what really makes
sense.
Bob . . .
Message 29
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|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>Any words of wisdom re. the heat gun and tip used on raychem solder
>sleeves? I use a weller with a "focusing" heat tip plus several other
>guns (Master-mite and Ideal) but all I seem able to do is to melt the
>plastic sleeve before the solder flows. Hate to ruin such costly items so
>I've gone back to soldering pigtail to the shield. Any suggestions as to
>how better to use the sleeves or a better heat gun. Thanks, Ben Martin
The plastic always shrinks before the solder flows inside.
My current favorite heat gun is a Milwaukee variable heat
gun I bought at Home Depot. I'm always amazed how much
heat the plastic sleeve and wiring insulation will stand
while these critters are being applied. After the plastic
shrinks down, I concentrate the heat on the pigtail side
of the sleeve until I get first flow of the solder before
I rotate it around to heat the other side.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator Connection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:58 PM 1/8/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bbbb Green <rvinfo@juno.com>
>
>I have a Prestolite alternator with two terminals for the field
>connection. My question is: Does it matter which wires to which on
>these field wires or are they interchangeable? One goes to the regulator
>and one goes to the battery, I am just not sure which is which.
>
>Bruce Green
>Eagle N110GM
IF there are two field terminals brought outside
the alternator, you can ground either one and use
the remaining terminal to apply field power from
the regulator.
Bob . . .
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Affordable time-delay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Hi Charlie- I considered exactly this while in tank construction, but
figured I could come up with a cheap time-delay device (duh!) and
haven't! Tanks are sealed and I ain't goin' back in!!
Tanks anyway!
Mark do not archive
Charlie and Tupper England wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
>
> Mark Phillips wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>>
>>Here's one for you gadget design junkies- I have reed type float
>>switches in each tank that should close at about 1/3 fuel remaining
>>(RV-6A) to turn on low fuel annunciator lamps. I'd like to feed these
>>with a time delay so they don't flicker continuously as they transition
>>from off to on- I'm thinking maybe a 10 sec. to 30 sec. delay would
>>probably be suitable. I have looked for commercial timing relays and
>>their size, weight & price will take yer breath away! Is there a
>>reasonably simple way to employ an IC type timer (555 chip?) - I don't
>>pretend to understand this stuff and would prefer to get the airplane
>>finished than learn IC design & use! Maybe after it flies, but would
>>like to install this circuit as the system goes together.
>>
>>Thanks from The PossumWorks in TN
>>Mark Phillips do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>
> You could do it with a resistor-capacitor network, but have you considered the
> simple brute-force method? Mount the reed switch in a tube with tiny holes at
> the top & bottom. The time constant is supplied by the slow fill time through
> the tiny hole.
>
> This has the added advantage of fewer components to fail.
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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