Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:08 AM - Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment (N823ms@aol.com)
2. 03:45 AM - Whelen Connectors (Roy Taylor)
3. 05:45 AM - Re: Low fuel warning (David Lundquist)
4. 08:05 AM - Re: runaway trim (Eric M. Jones)
5. 08:28 AM - Re: Switch on a strobe line? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:29 AM - Re: OV Module problems (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 09:40 AM - Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint (was Butane powered tools) (David Carter)
8. 10:34 AM - Dimming LED's and incansadent bulbs with AeroLectric (royt.or)
9. 10:45 AM - Re: Switch on a strobe line? (richard@riley.net)
10. 10:56 AM - Runaway trim control (Bob Darrah)
11. 12:54 PM - Re: Affordable time-delay (Mark Phillips)
12. 01:14 PM - Re: Affordable time-delay (RSwanson)
13. 07:47 PM - Re: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint (was Butan... (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
14. 08:30 PM - Re: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint (was Butan... (Jon Croke)
15. 09:10 PM - Re: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint (was Butan... (David Carter)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N823ms@aol.com
E-bay--under aviation/avionics
Message 2
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| Subject: | Whelen Connectors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Roy Taylor" <Royandjilly@btinternet.com>
Steve, I rang Whelen direct to get a couple of extra connectors for the wing roots,
they were most helpful....sent me a few at no cost, not even postage to UK...that's
service!
Roy, RV9A, Somerset, UK
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Low fuel warning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: David Lundquist <dlndqst@optonline.net>
I'll put on my thinking cap and try to post something this weekend.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob@RobsGlass.com>
<aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Low fuel warning
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley"
<Rob@RobsGlass.com>
>
>
> Dave Lundquist wrote -
> "As an aside, you can probably see that a "digital" fuel sensor is really
not
> the best way to go. An analog resistive sender produces a much easier to
> deal with signal that is more suited to averaging. If you are using
> resistive senders the same circuit in fact could just tap off them to
> produce the same low fuel warning. The only advantage I can see with the
> switches is that it would give you an independent warning of low fuel."
> This sounds like something I would really like to add to my project. I
have the standard Vans resistive senders and would welcome your input on how
to tap the output of these for a warning light without interfering with the
gauges.
> Rob
> Rob W M Shipley
> RV9A N919RV Fuselage.
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | RE: runaway trim |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
I mentioned before that I have a revision to the MAC8 servo where a simple voltage
determines the position of the trim.
This is a true "servo" system. The advantage is that the position of the input
control determines the trim position.
Maybe it is not the perfect "no-runaway-trim", or maybe it is. But I figure it
is far safer than the standard system. It employs a potentiometer, which can be
environmentally sealed, or any other method of setting a voltage (like a microprocessor
or D-A converter.
Contact me off-line and I will email you data. even if you don't want to do it,
I will detail some areas of the MAC8 that can be improved.
Bob, Did you ever test the stuff I sent???
Eric M. Jones, struggling to get a website up.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Switch on a strobe line? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:08 PM 1/10/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
>
>I'm installing a 4 head strobe pack and would like to be able to turn off
>two of the strobes while leaving the other 2 on. Can I use a conventional
>toggle swich in line with the bulbs, or does the high voltage make that
>unworkable?
Why would you want to do this?
You need to switch high voltages that should be as confined as
practical inside a shielded environment, shortest practical
wires and routed away from other avionics and instrumentation
wiring.
If there's a really good reason to make yourself less noticeable
to others while flying, I'd put a relay near the power supply
to open the trigger lead of the controlled strobe head. Operate
the relay from a remote switch on the panel.
The three wires from power supply to flash tube are ground,
trigger and high voltage. The trigger signal is also high
voltage but very low energy. Discontinuing this signal
will stop the tube from flashing.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: OV Module problems |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:54 PM 1/10/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Kellar" <rkellar@attbi.com>
>
>Bob, I posted this a week ago to the net and missed the answer you may
>have given. I am re posting it to see if you have any ideas regarding
>this problem.
>
>What follows is my original e-mail to Bob through his web site, his answer
>and questions, my response and finally at the bottom of the message is the
>new information regarding the tripping of the breaker...
>
>Comments/Questions: I am using your voltage regulator LR3B-14 in my
>RV6. Purchased 2 years ago. Worked wonderfully until 2 months ago. On
>multiple occasions the 5A fuse from the bus to the master switch to
>terminal 6 blows.
>
> This fuse should have been a circuit breaker . . . all of our
> installation drawings show a breaker used with any form of
> crowbar overvoltage protection.
>
>When not blown the voltage regulator functions perfectly 20+ amps
>charge then cycles down to less than 5 amps for flight. Usually the
>fuse lasts for 1 hr or less and then with the next flight, as I take off the
>fuse will blow and the blinking warning light comes on. Replace the
>fuse and I can fly again for awhile. I have inspected everything in the
>panel, wires, connections etc looking for a possible short or failure. My
>question is...Is there anything internal to the unit that could cause
>this intermittent failure? If not, I will continue my investigation of
>all the wire out to the alternator looking for a possible intermittent
>short.
>
> Do you have a voltmeter in the airplane? What does it read
> just before the ov system trips?
>
>Thank you for your response and all the help provided on the net and
>in your electical manual and diagrams.
> >
> > My pleasure sir.
> >
> > I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
> > to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
> > share the information with as many folks as possible.
> > You can join at . . .
>
>Thank you for you quick response. I missed the part about the breaker in
>the instructions. I'll install a breaker and fly some more and then let you
>know here on the list. Re: Voltage before the fuse blows...I am too busy
>flying the takeoff to notice. I'll bring a passenger to monitor this value.
>Bob Kellar
>
>Jan 2, 03
>Bob, After installing a 5 amp breaker, I went flying today with an
>observer with the following results. Start up and taxi, runup all trouble
>free. I placed various loads, lights radios, strobes etc. onto the bus
>without any problems. Good charge at 13 + volts even during idle. Take
>off started and just about at 100 ft. of altitude the breaker popped and
>the yellow blinking light came on. The observer reported no change in the
>volt meter until the breaker popped and it of course dropped to 10-12
>volts. She noted that the amp meter had suddenly flicked full to charge
>just before the breaker popped. I unloaded the system bus completely,
>reset the breaker and then restarted to apply the load. No problems at
>all. We flew for awhile and then landed, shut down, restarted and took
>off, this time without any problems. Regualator and alternator continued
>to work well for the 30 min. of additional flight. The unit was purchased
>from you 5/4/99 with first flight 10/4/01.
> I noted above I have about 100 hours on the airplane and no problems
> until the last 15 hours. Any suggestions regarding diagnostics or fixes
> would be greately appreciated.
If you have access to a variable voltage power supply,
you might try putting 0-17 volts on pin 6 of the
regulator with the engine not running and the DC power
master switch off. This should be a current limited
power supply that will not be hurt by a momentary
dead short.
Slowly advance the voltage until you see a sudden
drop . . . note the highest voltage reading just
before the "trip" . . . it should be 16.0 to 16.5
volts.
If it is lower, the LR-3 needs some factory attention.
Further, what I suspect is that your LR3 is an older
configuration which is sensitive to low energy transients
present in a few airplanes. OV protection circuitry
in B&C and AEC products was modified a bit more than
a year ago to tolerate this rare situation.
It may be that something in your airplane has changed
to begin producing the antagonistic stress . . . B&C
would be happy to update your LR-3 -AND- check the
OV trip calibration.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint (was Butane |
powered tools)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Thanks for everyone's responses. Let me start over.
I'm lengthening the factory wiring harness to my Whelen tail lite/strobe in
my RV-6 rudder bottom fairing. I tried using a standard soldering gun and
a Radio Shack "hands free" gadget (2 alligator clips, small magnifying
glass, all on a heavy base) - could hardly get the wires to heat up enough
to melt solder. Got 1 of 3 done. 2nd turned out to be a cold solder
joint - mechanically bonded but infinite resistance, because the wires were
wiggling continuously as I held the solder gun tip on the wires, which
weren't being held very solidly by the "hands free" thing.
About this time the gun burned out (far exceeded its duty cycle, probably).
I assumed that the gun was OK, initially, and just couldn't heat the wires
enough, so my mind seized on an old memory of Bob mentioning "soldering
torches" and thought, "A direct flame would heat the wires quickly and
without my shakey hands wiggling the joint and making a cold solder joint."
- That is what I've been pursuing until all these replies, especially
Bob's statement that the torch is really for 2 AWG HEAVY stuff.
I now have a new Weller solder gun, to replace the one that burned out, as
well as a 25 watt soldering pencil.
Should I just start over and try the gun again? I have the 63/37 solder.
Is the direct flame on the wire not a good idea?
Yes, I could use butt splices, knife splices, or "wire nuts" (I'm just
kidding), instead of soldering. I'm just following Bob's previously stated
opinion that he prefers a solder joint to the crimped joints, in some cases,
as a general rule, etc, etc. (not trying to put words in his mouth, just
trying to recall what I've "learned" or remember from this list).
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Butane powered tools
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 07:36 PM 1/10/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie and Tupper England
> ><cengland@netdoor.com>
> >
> >David Carter wrote:
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter"
> > <dcarter@datarecall.net>
> > >
> > > Hey, RV-list & Aeroelectric List - the "torch" I told you all about is
a
> > > "butane heated tip IRON" - not a torch. Found one at another Radio
Shack
> > > last night and realized I "saw what I wanted to see" at the first RS
where
> > > it was out of stock and all I had to go by was the tiny letters on the
> > > pegboard label - probably didn't have my reading glasses on. Anyway,
its
> > > not a torch. Sorry.
> > >
> > > So, where's a good place to buy a torch for working away from where
there
> > > is electricity for solder guns?
>
> I've kept butane powered irons in my mini-box of tools
> at my desk for a number of years. See some exemplar
> tools at:
>
> http://www.ba-electronics.com/soldiron.htm
> http://www.elexp.com/sdr_05pl.htm
> http://www.hobbytron.net/r-bsi20.html
> http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/PP-PPSK.html
>
>
> I had a butane powered heat gun from Radio Shack that
> really worked nice when it worked. Igniter was flakey . .
>
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?DID=7&PartNumber=370-275
>
>
> The butane powered torch is useful only for (1) very large
> solder jobs like installing terminals on 2AWG wire and (2)
> very hot jobs like sliver soldering. I've had several
> versions of these things on my website catalog from time
> to time.
>
> http://www.chefdepot.net/minitorch.htm
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?DID=7&PartNumber=370-270
> http://hightechdepot.com/static/Bt-8000.Html
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42099
>
>
> these were on sale at Harbor Freight before xmas for $1.50 each.
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=39440
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Dimming LED's and incansadent bulbs with AeroLectric |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "royt.or" <royt.or@netzero.net>
For a circuit which allows using LED's and standard incandesent bulbs on the
same B&C dimmer see Randall Henderson's web page at
http://www.edt.com/homewing/rhproject/cabinlts.html. For LED's, Randall uses
a 4.7V Zener diode to offset the 4V minimum output voltage of the dimmer,
allowing the LED's to be completely dimmed when the incandesant bulbs are
getting the "keep warm" voltage.
Regards,
Roy
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Switch on a strobe line? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
At 10:27 AM 1/11/03 -0600, you wrote:
> Why would you want to do this?
My plane (a canard pusher) already has 2 nice, clear lenses just on each
side of the nose. They currently have mounts for MR-16 bulbs, as landing
lights. Unfortunately the amount of light they put out is (IMHP)
inadequate. I'm going to a pair of 50 W HID's on the main gear, which
still leaves me with these clear lenses.
My thought was to put a couple of strobes behind them. But then I thought
at night with a little moisture in the air it might be pretty annoying to
have all that blinking directly in front of me, so, some way to switch them
off while leaving the wing strobes on.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Runaway trim control |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Darrah" <RDarrah@austin.rr.com>
I can't prevent runaway trim, but my system allows me to control it (at least on
the bench). I put in a three position switch, up-on (normal). Center-off,
and momentary down is reverse. When the trim runs away, hit and hold the reverse
until it gets back in the proper area, then off.
Works great on the bench!
Bob Darrah
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Affordable time-delay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Thanks Bob & Charlie for commenting!
I did consider containing the float in a small baffle as y'all suggest, but failed
to arrive at a satisfactory design prior to tank closing, and I'd prefer
to not go back in there! What I envision is a small module similar to
Bob's Crowbar OVM (how elegant!), totally solid-state & compact enough
for a variety of mounting options, even in-line, with a fixed time
constant of, say, 15 seconds as opposed to microseconds on the OVM- the
comparator/timing part sees input for selected interval then gates on
transistor/SCR (or whatever is appropriate) output for LED or small
incandescent on the panel- input goes low, output off. I do this with
PLCs all the time, but I ain't putting an Allen-Bradley mini in my RV
and I don't design hardware, folks!
What would actually happen is that after 15 seconds with level low
enough to trip the switch, light would go on until the float rose again,
then turn off until another 15 seconds with the float switch made.
(probably staying on for only a second or two at first, then with longer
"on" intervals as fuel level falls, until staying on for good) It might
make a dozen on-off transitions before staying on, but at 15 second
intervals, I believe this is a good attention-getter without being an
annoyance.
I am also using fuel gauges in both tanks & considering adding fuel flow
option to EIS, so this is not primary "low fuel" warning- more a
reminder to switch tanks if not paying attention, and look for a gas
station if both lights are on- no lectures about fuel management by time
& distance, please, this is for re-inforcement! They would also be
blinking at ya way early if you were losing fuel faster than anticipated
(loose cap, leaking drain, bird-strike hole in tank, bullet holes 8-)
etc.) Like it or not, fuel exhaustion is the #1 reason (IIRC) why
planes make unplanned arrivals at less-than-ideal locations!
So the question stands: anyone know how to make such a device?
Thanks again!
Mark Phillips
>>>
>>>Here's one for you gadget design junkies- I have reed type float
>>>switches in each tank that should close at about 1/3 fuel remaining
>>>(RV-6A) to turn on low fuel annunciator lamps. I'd like to feed these
>>>with a time delay so they don't flicker continuously as they transition
>>>from off to on- I'm thinking maybe a 10 sec. to 30 sec. delay would
>>>probably be suitable. I have looked for commercial timing relays and
>>>their size, weight & price will take yer breath away! Is there a
>>>reasonably simple way to employ an IC type timer (555 chip?) - I don't
>>>pretend to understand this stuff and would prefer to get the airplane
>>>finished than learn IC design & use! Maybe after it flies, but would
>>>like to install this circuit as the system goes together.
>>>
>>>Thanks from The PossumWorks in TN
>>>Mark Phillips do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>You could do it with a resistor-capacitor network, but have you
>>considered the
>>simple brute-force method? Mount the reed switch in a tube with tiny holes at
>>the top & bottom. The time constant is supplied by the slow fill time through
>>the tiny hole.
>>
>>This has the added advantage of fewer components to fail.
>>
>
> You beat me to it Charlie . . . an elegant solution
> I think . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Affordable time-delay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RSwanson <rswan19@comcast.net>
Why not latch it closed on the first low indication like on most new cars?
R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <ripsteel@edge.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Affordable time-delay
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
> Thanks Bob & Charlie for commenting!
>
> I did consider containing the float in a small baffle as y'all suggest,
but failed
>
> to arrive at a satisfactory design prior to tank closing, and I'd prefer
> to not go back in there! What I envision is a small module similar to
> Bob's Crowbar OVM (how elegant!), totally solid-state & compact enough
> for a variety of mounting options, even in-line, with a fixed time
> constant of, say, 15 seconds as opposed to microseconds on the OVM- the
> comparator/timing part sees input for selected interval then gates on
> transistor/SCR (or whatever is appropriate) output for LED or small
> incandescent on the panel- input goes low, output off. I do this with
> PLCs all the time, but I ain't putting an Allen-Bradley mini in my RV
> and I don't design hardware, folks!
>
> What would actually happen is that after 15 seconds with level low
> enough to trip the switch, light would go on until the float rose again,
> then turn off until another 15 seconds with the float switch made.
> (probably staying on for only a second or two at first, then with longer
> "on" intervals as fuel level falls, until staying on for good) It might
> make a dozen on-off transitions before staying on, but at 15 second
> intervals, I believe this is a good attention-getter without being an
> annoyance.
>
> I am also using fuel gauges in both tanks & considering adding fuel flow
> option to EIS, so this is not primary "low fuel" warning- more a
> reminder to switch tanks if not paying attention, and look for a gas
> station if both lights are on- no lectures about fuel management by time
> & distance, please, this is for re-inforcement! They would also be
> blinking at ya way early if you were losing fuel faster than anticipated
> (loose cap, leaking drain, bird-strike hole in tank, bullet holes 8-)
> etc.) Like it or not, fuel exhaustion is the #1 reason (IIRC) why
> planes make unplanned arrivals at less-than-ideal locations!
>
> So the question stands: anyone know how to make such a device?
>
> Thanks again!
> Mark Phillips
>
>
> >>>
> >>>Here's one for you gadget design junkies- I have reed type float
> >>>switches in each tank that should close at about 1/3 fuel remaining
> >>>(RV-6A) to turn on low fuel annunciator lamps. I'd like to feed these
> >>>with a time delay so they don't flicker continuously as they transition
> >>>from off to on- I'm thinking maybe a 10 sec. to 30 sec. delay would
> >>>probably be suitable. I have looked for commercial timing relays and
> >>>their size, weight & price will take yer breath away! Is there a
> >>>reasonably simple way to employ an IC type timer (555 chip?) - I don't
> >>>pretend to understand this stuff and would prefer to get the airplane
> >>>finished than learn IC design & use! Maybe after it flies, but would
> >>>like to install this circuit as the system goes together.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks from The PossumWorks in TN
> >>>Mark Phillips do not archive
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>You could do it with a resistor-capacitor network, but have you
> >>considered the
> >>simple brute-force method? Mount the reed switch in a tube with tiny
holes at
> >>the top & bottom. The time constant is supplied by the slow fill time
through
> >>the tiny hole.
> >>
> >>This has the added advantage of fewer components to fail.
> >>
> >
> > You beat me to it Charlie . . . an elegant solution
> > I think . . .
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint (was |
Butan...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
In a message dated 1/11/2003 12:41:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dcarter@datarecall.net writes:
>
> I'm lengthening the factory wiring harness to my Whelen tail lite/strobe in
> my RV-6 rudder bottom fairing. I tried using a standard soldering gun and
> a Radio Shack "hands free" gadget (2 alligator clips, small magnifying
> glass, all on a heavy base) - could hardly get the wires to heat up enough
> to melt solder. Got 1 of 3 done. 2nd turned out to be a cold solder
> joint - mechanically bonded but infinite resistance, because the wires were
> wiggling continuously as I held the solder gun tip on the wires, which
> weren't being held very solidly by the "hands free" thing.
>
> About this time the gun burned out (far exceeded its duty cycle, probably).
>
> I assumed that the gun was OK, initially, and just couldn't heat the wires
> enough, so my mind seized on an old memory of Bob mentioning "soldering
> torches" and thought, "A direct flame would heat the wires quickly and
> without my shakey hands wiggling the joint and making a cold solder joint."
> - That is what I've been pursuing until all these replies, especially
> Bob's statement that the torch is really for 2 AWG HEAVY stuff.
>
> I now have a new Weller solder gun, to replace the one that burned out, as
> well as a 25 watt soldering pencil.
>
> Should I just start over and try the gun again? I have the 63/37 solder.
>
> Is the direct flame on the wire not a good idea?
>
> Yes, I could use butt splices, knife splices, or "wire nuts" (I'm just
> kidding), instead of soldering. I'm just following Bob's previously stated
> opinion that he prefers a solder joint to the crimped joints, in some
> cases,
> as a general rule, etc., etc., (not trying to put words in his mouth, just
> trying to recall what I've "learned" or remember from this list).
>
> David Carter
>
>
David,
I don't want to sound like a jerk here but I have to establish some
credentials and experience in the area of soldering to make my point. I have
done tons of electrical soldering in the last 30 years. From PC board
building or repairing to wire splicing and connector/terminal installing,
etc., etc. I was one of the few to earn a Navy "White Card" in the US Naval
Avionics Micro Miniature Repair School (for work center 690) of the early
1970s. A properly soldered connection is superb in every way except wire
flexibility near the joint. As a "solder it" guy, it took me a long time to
trust the very good crimped terminal joints of today. These crimped devices
maintain wire flexibility at the joint but are subject to mechanical strength
problems if not done with the proper tools and care. So, if I may, let me
give you some of my opinions and ideas on electrical soldering.
"The ten commandments of electrical soldering."
First, forget about using a flame for anything but the largest of wires (4 or
2 gauge). I feel that it takes a lot of experience to be able to solder with
a flame on anything smaller than a 4 gauge wire. In fact, it is better to
use a big soldering iron on big wires rather than a flame at all because you
have better control of the heat. I have a 300 watt Weller iron I call
"Bertha" for battery cable terminals etc.
Second, forget about a soldering gun. The secret to electrical soldering is
to be able to control the heat at the joint. A soldering gun is typically
too much heat for the work that you are trying to do (solder wires of 22 to
say, 12 gauge). A soldering gun is often 150 to 250 watts and maybe higher.
This is too much heat except in the hands of an expert for this type of
soldering.
Third, a 25 to 35 watt iron is plenty of heat for this range of work. I
would stay at 25 watts up to about a 16 gauge wire splice. It will take a
little more heat for larger wires.
Fourth, the second secret to soldering is cleanliness. Get everything clean
and shiny bright. A common pencil eraser or a miniature stiff fiberglass
brush can be used to clean wires. Fine sandpaper will work for this too and
then dip them in liquid electrical soldering flux or lemon juice to prep them
for "tinning." More about "tinning" in a minute. All oxidation must be
removed from any "to be soldered" part.
Fifth, about that "tinning," soldering is easier to perform if the parts are
"tinned" separately first before they are joined with a solder "joint." A
clean, fluxed wire is heated by the iron and solder is added to melt and flow
onto the wire in just the amount to just coat the wire.
Sixth, more about "tinning," the soldering iron tip needs to transfer it's
heat to the materials to be soldered. It must be clean and tinned with
solder to do this. Wipe the hot tip on a very damp sponge to clean the slag
off the tip and melt solder on it to "tin" the tip. Once the solder on the
iron tip is melted, coating the tip, it is tinned. But, the tin and lead
that the solder is made of begin to separate in this molten state, the flux
in the solder evaporates and the tip begins to build an ash on itself. This
is bad! You must keep the tip clean and tinned at all times. Heat will not
transfer through ash on a "dirty" iron tip. This means before every single
joint is soldered or every wire tinning operation is done. Keep that tip
clean and tinned, and you will be on your way to being a master solderer.
Seventh, make the joint quickly. The name of the game is to melt the solder
and keep it melted for only a few seconds while it flows into the joint and
then get the heat away from it. When the solder is kept at the molten state
it begins to separate into tin and lead and this is bad! The joint will be
dull looking (lead is dull). It needs to look shiny and bright to indicate
that it was not over heated or cooked into a highly resistive or "cold"
solder joint. Lead is a poor electrical conductor by itself. Don't allow
the tin and lead to separate by keeping the heat on it too long.
Eighth, more about that tinned soldering iron tip. The freshly cleaned and
tinned soldering iron tip will transfer it's heat to the wire quickly when
touched to the wire because the fresh molten solder on the tip will engulf
the end of the wire and heat it quickly due to the larger contact area of the
molten solder on the tip. This is good! You want the wire to heat up
quickly so that you can flow a little more solder to the "joint" and get the
heat away before it turns into a bad joint due to tin/lead separation.
Ninth, The right heat is very important. An iron's heat is fairly constant
once it comes up to temperature. You can vary the heat delivered to the work
a little bit by choosing a tip that is slightly larger or smaller or by using
a wire wound potentiometer to control the iron's input voltage. Radio shack
has one that is rated for an iron up to 150 watts, Cat. No. 64-2054.
Tenth, Clean all of the flux off the finished joint with denatured alcohol.
Get your magnifying glass out and admire your clean shiny new solder joint!
Now where did I lay my crimping tool?
John
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint (was |
Butan...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <Jon@joncroke.com>
John,
I printed your post and hung it on the wall!
Thanks for an informative lesson on proper soldering!
Jon
CH 701
near Green Bay
www.joncroke.com
do not arcihve
----- Original Message -----
From: <KITFOXZ@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint
(was Butan...
> Tenth, Clean all of the flux off the finished joint with denatured
alcohol.
> Get your magnifying glass out and admire your clean shiny new solder
joint!
>
> Now where did I lay my crimping tool?
>
> John
>
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint (was |
Butan...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
John (KitfoxZ),
Thank yoiu very much for the excellent info on soldering. Just what I
needed. Now I need to see if I want to use that info or use the excellent
crimpers & bought from B&C!
I used to send my USAF/ANG A-7D avionics guys to Navy Jacksonville to the
"high reliability soldering course" in early 1980's - me being the Avionics
Officer, I didn't get to go and get those skills.
Do Not Archive
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: <KITFOXZ@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint
(was Butan...
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 1/11/2003 12:41:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> dcarter@datarecall.net writes:
>
> >
> > I'm lengthening the factory wiring harness to my Whelen tail lite/strobe
in
> > my RV-6 rudder bottom fairing. I tried using a standard soldering gun
and
> > a Radio Shack "hands free" gadget (2 alligator clips, small magnifying
> > glass, all on a heavy base) - could hardly get the wires to heat up
enough
> > to melt solder. Got 1 of 3 done. 2nd turned out to be a cold solder
> > joint - mechanically bonded but infinite resistance, because the wires
were
> > wiggling continuously as I held the solder gun tip on the wires, which
> > weren't being held very solidly by the "hands free" thing.
> >
> > About this time the gun burned out (far exceeded its duty cycle,
probably).
> >
> > I assumed that the gun was OK, initially, and just couldn't heat the
wires
> > enough, so my mind seized on an old memory of Bob mentioning "soldering
> > torches" and thought, "A direct flame would heat the wires quickly and
> > without my shakey hands wiggling the joint and making a cold solder
joint."
> > - That is what I've been pursuing until all these replies, especially
> > Bob's statement that the torch is really for 2 AWG HEAVY stuff.
> >
> > I now have a new Weller solder gun, to replace the one that burned out,
as
> > well as a 25 watt soldering pencil.
> >
> > Should I just start over and try the gun again? I have the 63/37
solder.
> >
> > Is the direct flame on the wire not a good idea?
> >
> > Yes, I could use butt splices, knife splices, or "wire nuts" (I'm just
> > kidding), instead of soldering. I'm just following Bob's previously
stated
> > opinion that he prefers a solder joint to the crimped joints, in some
> > cases,
> > as a general rule, etc., etc., (not trying to put words in his mouth,
just
> > trying to recall what I've "learned" or remember from this list).
> >
> > David Carter
> >
> >
>
> David,
>
> I don't want to sound like a jerk here but I have to establish some
> credentials and experience in the area of soldering to make my point. I
have
> done tons of electrical soldering in the last 30 years. From PC board
> building or repairing to wire splicing and connector/terminal installing,
> etc., etc. I was one of the few to earn a Navy "White Card" in the US
Naval
> Avionics Micro Miniature Repair School (for work center 690) of the early
> 1970s. A properly soldered connection is superb in every way except wire
> flexibility near the joint. As a "solder it" guy, it took me a long time
to
> trust the very good crimped terminal joints of today. These crimped
devices
> maintain wire flexibility at the joint but are subject to mechanical
strength
> problems if not done with the proper tools and care. So, if I may, let me
> give you some of my opinions and ideas on electrical soldering.
>
> "The ten commandments of electrical soldering."
>
> First, forget about using a flame for anything but the largest of wires (4
or
> 2 gauge). I feel that it takes a lot of experience to be able to solder
with
> a flame on anything smaller than a 4 gauge wire. In fact, it is better to
> use a big soldering iron on big wires rather than a flame at all because
you
> have better control of the heat. I have a 300 watt Weller iron I call
> "Bertha" for battery cable terminals etc.
>
> Second, forget about a soldering gun. The secret to electrical soldering
is
> to be able to control the heat at the joint. A soldering gun is typically
> too much heat for the work that you are trying to do (solder wires of 22
to
> say, 12 gauge). A soldering gun is often 150 to 250 watts and maybe
higher.
> This is too much heat except in the hands of an expert for this type of
> soldering.
>
> Third, a 25 to 35 watt iron is plenty of heat for this range of work. I
> would stay at 25 watts up to about a 16 gauge wire splice. It will take a
> little more heat for larger wires.
>
> Fourth, the second secret to soldering is cleanliness. Get everything
clean
> and shiny bright. A common pencil eraser or a miniature stiff fiberglass
> brush can be used to clean wires. Fine sandpaper will work for this too
and
> then dip them in liquid electrical soldering flux or lemon juice to prep
them
> for "tinning." More about "tinning" in a minute. All oxidation must be
> removed from any "to be soldered" part.
>
> Fifth, about that "tinning," soldering is easier to perform if the parts
are
> "tinned" separately first before they are joined with a solder "joint." A
> clean, fluxed wire is heated by the iron and solder is added to melt and
flow
> onto the wire in just the amount to just coat the wire.
>
> Sixth, more about "tinning," the soldering iron tip needs to transfer it's
> heat to the materials to be soldered. It must be clean and tinned with
> solder to do this. Wipe the hot tip on a very damp sponge to clean the
slag
> off the tip and melt solder on it to "tin" the tip. Once the solder on
the
> iron tip is melted, coating the tip, it is tinned. But, the tin and lead
> that the solder is made of begin to separate in this molten state, the
flux
> in the solder evaporates and the tip begins to build an ash on itself.
This
> is bad! You must keep the tip clean and tinned at all times. Heat will
not
> transfer through ash on a "dirty" iron tip. This means before every
single
> joint is soldered or every wire tinning operation is done. Keep that tip
> clean and tinned, and you will be on your way to being a master solderer.
>
> Seventh, make the joint quickly. The name of the game is to melt the
solder
> and keep it melted for only a few seconds while it flows into the joint
and
> then get the heat away from it. When the solder is kept at the molten
state
> it begins to separate into tin and lead and this is bad! The joint will
be
> dull looking (lead is dull). It needs to look shiny and bright to
indicate
> that it was not over heated or cooked into a highly resistive or "cold"
> solder joint. Lead is a poor electrical conductor by itself. Don't allow
> the tin and lead to separate by keeping the heat on it too long.
>
> Eighth, more about that tinned soldering iron tip. The freshly cleaned
and
> tinned soldering iron tip will transfer it's heat to the wire quickly when
> touched to the wire because the fresh molten solder on the tip will engulf
> the end of the wire and heat it quickly due to the larger contact area of
the
> molten solder on the tip. This is good! You want the wire to heat up
> quickly so that you can flow a little more solder to the "joint" and get
the
> heat away before it turns into a bad joint due to tin/lead separation.
>
> Ninth, The right heat is very important. An iron's heat is fairly
constant
> once it comes up to temperature. You can vary the heat delivered to the
work
> a little bit by choosing a tip that is slightly larger or smaller or by
using
> a wire wound potentiometer to control the iron's input voltage. Radio
shack
> has one that is rated for an iron up to 150 watts, Cat. No. 64-2054.
>
> Tenth, Clean all of the flux off the finished joint with denatured
alcohol.
> Get your magnifying glass out and admire your clean shiny new solder
joint!
>
> Now where did I lay my crimping tool?
>
> John
>
>
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