Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:18 AM - gooseneck lamp (Robert Dickson)
2. 06:34 AM - Re: Off line for just a little bit more . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:42 AM - Re: Wiring Question - Protection for main power wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:44 AM - Re: Downloadable CD . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:01 AM - Re: RV-6A Wiring Diagram - Mac Friendly (Kevin Horton)
6. 08:11 AM - dimmer pin soldering (Robert Dickson)
7. 10:56 AM - Re: dimmer pin soldering (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
8. 12:24 PM - Re: gooseneck lamp (Jim Oke)
9. 12:55 PM - Re: dimmer pin soldering (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 12:58 PM - Re: gooseneck lamp (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 02:13 PM - Re: Re: dimmer pin soldering (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
12. 02:23 PM - Re: Re: dimmer pin soldering (Robert Dickson)
13. 02:38 PM - Re: Re[2]: Turn & Bank vs. Turn Coordinator (Kevin Horton)
14. 04:25 PM - Be nice! (Rob W M Shipley)
15. 05:04 PM - Re: Re: dimmer pin soldering (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 05:18 PM - Re: Re: dimmer pin soldering (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 05:21 PM - CAD person needed (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 05:23 PM - Re: Re[2]: Turn & Bank vs. Turn Coordinator (BUCK AND GLORIA BUCHANAN)
19. 07:01 PM - battery testers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 07:08 PM - Re: Re: dimmer pin soldering (Larry Bowen)
21. 07:59 PM - Re: Re: dimmer pin soldering (Robert Dickson)
22. 08:52 PM - Re: Be nice! (John Schroeder)
23. 08:56 PM - Re: Be nice! (N823ms@aol.com)
24. 09:31 PM - Re: Re: dimmer pin soldering (Larry Bowen)
25. 10:20 PM - S700-2-1 switch? (Dan Checkoway)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson" <robert@thenews-journal.com>
I've bought one of Bob's gooseneck lights for my RV-6A, with the intention
of mounting it on the forward canopy rail, just forward of the roll bar
base. For you folks that have installed (or are considering installing) one
of these lights, does this sound like a reasonable place to put it? I've
also thought about mounting it on the forward end of the pilot's armrest. My
thought is to put it someplace where it can illuminate either the panel (in
an E bus-only situation) or a chart in my lap. Other/better ideas?
thanks,
Robert Dickson
RV-6A electrical
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Off line for just a little bit more . . |
.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:12 PM 1/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N823ms@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 01/24/2003 1:46:55 PM Central Standard Time,
>bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
>
>
> >
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <
> > bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >
> >
>
>Bob:
>
> Glade to hear that Dee is on the road of recovery. My
> father-in-law is
>still in the hospital recovering from a lung cancer operation. My prayers are
>with you. I want you to know if you cannot make the Nashville seminar we can
>all reschedule. Keep your priorities right.
>
>God Bless,
>
>Ed Silvanic
Thank you. The Nashville trip is still a go. To work around
that bureaucratic snipe hunt now called "airport security",
I'll be shipping my luggage and demonstration materials
out via UPS on Monday.
Bob. . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring Question - Protection for main power wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:59 PM 1/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 1/23/03 10:36:12 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>F1Rocket@comcast.net writes:
>
><< -> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Randy Pflanzer
><F1Rocket@comcast.net>
>
> Snip<< Why doesn't the power feed wire to the main bus have any
> protection?
> It seems to me that if the main bus (Fuse block) were to become
> grounded, this wire would fry big time. >>
>
>I followed Bob's idea of using fuse links to protect fat wires. For example,
>my main bus feed to the main fuse block is a 10 AWG with a 6 inch 14 AWG fuse
>link at the battery (master relay) end. I bought several feet of some
>fiberglass sleeving from B & C Aeroelectric like they supply with their stock
>22 AWG fuse link kits and used that to make up my own size links four AWG
>sizes smaller that the main feeder per Bob's instructions.
More than 50 years experience has shown that the "protection"
of the fat wires is not necessary. If a major feeder is faulted
to ground in a metal airplane, it's always a loose, low force
kind of failure (insulation rubbed through and/or cut over
sharp edge of sheet metal). These failures happen only on
airplanes that are poorly assembled and/or poorly maintained.
If the fault does happen, it burns away the "connection" as
opposed to burning wires. It's an extremely rare condition
that is easily avoided by proper installation/maintenance.
This is why we've never seen anything but hard-wired
connections in the main power distribution and cranking
circuits on production lightplanes.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Downloadable CD . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:04 AM 1/24/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
>
>Is the downloadable CD still available? The last address I have for it is
>http://216.55.140.222/AEC70 but it says file not found.
It got moved to its own directory at
http://216.55.140.222/CD/AEC7_0.zip
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RV-6A Wiring Diagram - Mac Friendly |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
At 5:21 PM -0500 1/24/03, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jack Haviland <jgh@iavbbs.com>
>
>
>A Mac friendly day/night VFR RV-6A wiring diagram (based on many of
>Bob's concepts but using a key switch), is posted at <
>http://iavbbs.com/jgh/jghplane.htm>. It was done using Appleworks and
>the accompanying instrument panel layout was done in Photoshop but jpeg
>files are also posted and you can view the diagram and panel without
>using an Apple computer. Constructive criticism would be appreciated
>before I order the remainder of the wiring materials and my wife would
>like to know if the site does not work properly.
>
>Jack
>RV-6A
If any other Mac users are interested, I also used Appleworks to
create the wiring diagrams for my RV-8. You can view them in pdf
format at my site, and I could e-mail them in Appleworks format to
anyone who is interested.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 6
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| Subject: | dimmer pin soldering |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson" <robert@thenews-journal.com>
I'm ignorant of how to properly install the pins into the female plug for
the AEC lighting dimmer. The pins have a plain end and an orange tipped end.
It appears that the plain end is the end that gets inserted into the plug to
accept the pins coming from the dimmer heat sink. So this means that I
solder the #22 wires into the orange tipped end. The instructions say to
cover these solder joints with 1/8" heatshrink, but this would appear to
inhibit the pin being inserted all the way into the plug. I'm obviously
missing something pretty basic here and would appreciate someone
straightening me out.
thanks,
Robert Dickson
RV-6A electrical
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: dimmer pin soldering |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
In a message dated 1/25/2003 11:13:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
robert@thenews-journal.com writes:
> I'm ignorant of how to properly install the pins into the female plug for
> the AEC lighting dimmer. The pins have a plain end and an orange tipped
> end.
> It appears that the plain end is the end that gets inserted into the plug
> to
> accept the pins coming from the dimmer heat sink. So this means that I
> solder the #22 wires into the orange tipped end. The instructions say to
> cover these solder joints with 1/8" heatshrink, but this would appear to
> inhibit the pin being inserted all the way into the plug. I'm obviously
> missing something pretty basic here and would appreciate someone
> straightening me out.
>
> thanks,
>
> Robert Dickson
> RV-6A electrical
>
>
Robert,
I am not familiar with this dimmer plug but have built many plug assemblies
over the years. The pins should have two or three small "tangs" sticking out
from the sides that grip the plug body when they are inserted from the rear
of the plug. If you can determine which is the front and rear of the plug,
you can insert the pins in the rear with the tangs aiming to the rear so that
they lock in the body when pressure is applied from the front of the pin.
I'll bet the orange end is the rear of the pin.
Strip the wire end, apply a little liquid electrical soldering flux to the
stripped end and touch the wire to your freshly tinned soldering iron tip.
When I say freshly tinned soldering tip, I mean in the last few seconds
freshly tinned. For this small wire size, a 20 watt pencil iron should work
well. Bob will defend the use of a soldering gun, but I am telling you that
for a beginner this is the way to guarantee success. Most guns will be too
hot and need to be used only by the seasoned pro for this small work.
You should now have a freshly tinned # 22 wire end. Cut the tinned end of
the wire to about 1/8." The insulation of the wire will have shrunk back a
bit from the heat of the tinning process and now you have the opportunity to
make the stripped and tinned ends uniform by trim cutting after tinning.
Put the new clean pin in a small bench vise (hobby vise) very gently secured.
A common wooden spring type clothes pin is what I use for this, glued or
screwed to a piece of plywood say 6" X 6" inches large. It helps to cut the
nose of the clothes pin off with a small saw (coping, Dremel, band saw, etc.)
so that the nose of the clothes pin is flat. It is even helpful to put a
small notch in the jaw of the clothes pin to hold the to-be-soldered pin
snugly.
Your tinned wire should have taken on just enough solder to coat it like a
plating. There is no need to have a blob on the end. This is too much and
may cause you some problem. This thin coat of solder is accomplished easily
when you use my liquid soldering flux method described above. The old saying
of "The bigger the GLOB the better the JOB" is WRONG!
Apply some liquid electrical soldering flux to the pin end and insert the
tinned wire. Touch your again freshly cleaned and tinned soldering iron tip
to the pin and feed in just a little more solder to fill the "joint," the
joint should look shiny and have a smooth finish on all sides. Just enough
heat should have been applied to make the molten solder wick into the joint
and fill it and then the heat needs to be removed. If it looks dull, has a
rough surface or a "tit" on it where you removed the soldering iron tip, it
was overheated making the lead and tin begin to separate. This is the look
of a potentially contaminated or "cold" joint.
You want smooth shiny joints!
Slide your heat shrink tubing over the joint and heat with a heat gun while
rotating the wire/pin assembly until the shrinking just stops. Again, too
much heat is bad here too. Do not use a flame for this! You want to shrink
the tubing not barbecue it!
Trim the heat shrink back as need to allow pin insertion by carefully rolling
the wire/pin assembly under a new (or very sharp) single edged razor blade.
The heat shrink should just cover a short section of the wire insulation
(say, 1/2") and the solder joint. It should not interfere with the locking
tangs of the pin.
Practice your soldering skills on some of your wife's kitchen appliances
first. Microwave ovens are a good source of wires, pins and Molex plugs.
Give her your flame producing implements and tell her to barbecue some steaks
outside on the grill while you are tweaking her microwave.
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: gooseneck lamp |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
I mounted a 12 V cigarette lighter socket on the underside of the F-605E so
that it sits between the two seat backs. I found a flex neck "map light" in
the electrical "odds and ends" accessory dept. in a local auto parts store
that plugs in and this seems to do not a bad job as a map and utility
cockpit light. Plus it unplugs so I use the outlet for the proverbial CD
player, mini-TV or whatever 12 v entertainment device I'll never use when
flying.
This location might do for the flex light you have and seems to be a
reasonable use of otherwise almost wasted space. You may need some sort of
add on bracket to attach it to the F-605E. (This location will probably not
be available if you have electric flaps as the housing seems to fill this
space up.)
Jim Oke
RV-6A
Winnipeg, MB.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Dickson" <robert@thenews-journal.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: gooseneck lamp
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson"
<robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
> I've bought one of Bob's gooseneck lights for my RV-6A, with the intention
> of mounting it on the forward canopy rail, just forward of the roll bar
> base. For you folks that have installed (or are considering installing)
one
> of these lights, does this sound like a reasonable place to put it? I've
> also thought about mounting it on the forward end of the pilot's armrest.
My
> thought is to put it someplace where it can illuminate either the panel
(in
> an E bus-only situation) or a chart in my lap. Other/better ideas?
>
> thanks,
>
> Robert Dickson
> RV-6A electrical
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: dimmer pin soldering |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:53 PM 1/25/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 1/25/2003 11:13:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>robert@thenews-journal.com writes:
>
> > I'm ignorant of how to properly install the pins into the female plug for
> > the AEC lighting dimmer. The pins have a plain end and an orange tipped
> > end.
> > It appears that the plain end is the end that gets inserted into the plug
> > to
> > accept the pins coming from the dimmer heat sink. So this means that I
> > solder the #22 wires into the orange tipped end. The instructions say to
> > cover these solder joints with 1/8" heatshrink, but this would appear to
> > inhibit the pin being inserted all the way into the plug. I'm obviously
> > missing something pretty basic here and would appreciate someone
> > straightening me out.
If your dimmer came with a connector and loose pins, then it is
a crimped on pin like those shown at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/connect/s604.jpg
these are installed with a tool like:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/rct-3.jpg
and removed with a tool like:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/dse-1.jpg
The tools can be ordered from B&C's catalog on our
website at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html
>Robert,
>
>I am not familiar with this dimmer plug but have built many plug assemblies
>over the years. The pins should have two or three small "tangs" sticking out
>from the sides that grip the plug body when they are inserted from the rear
>of the plug. If you can determine which is the front and rear of the plug,
>you can insert the pins in the rear with the tangs aiming to the rear so that
>they lock in the body when pressure is applied from the front of the pin.
>I'll bet the orange end is the rear of the pin.
<snip>
This essay is referring to an entirely different connector
technology that I do not recognize from the descriptive
words. I am unaware of any connector with removable pins
wherein the preferred methodology of wire attachment is
soldering.
When I was supplying dimmers, I put a solder style d-sub
in the kit. It appears that B&C has upgraded the kit by
supplying the more user friendly connector.
The solder-style connectors are installed using techniques
described at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/dsubs/d_solder.html
Flux is never needed nor are "cold joints" a concern if
the proper solder is used in the first place. 63/37 or
60/40 alloy from an electronics shop (yeah, even Radio
Shack will have better solder than your hardware store
will).
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: gooseneck lamp |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:17 AM 1/25/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson"
><robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
>I've bought one of Bob's gooseneck lights for my RV-6A, with the intention
>of mounting it on the forward canopy rail, just forward of the roll bar
>base. For you folks that have installed (or are considering installing) one
>of these lights, does this sound like a reasonable place to put it? I've
>also thought about mounting it on the forward end of the pilot's armrest. My
>thought is to put it someplace where it can illuminate either the panel (in
>an E bus-only situation) or a chart in my lap. Other/better ideas?
My personal favorite is a mounting location to the left of
the pilot's seat cushion. The lamp can be flexed to hover over
a chart in my lap and the head rotated if needs be to flood
the panel.
When not in use, the lamp can be pushed up against the cockpit
wall to be out of the way.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: dimmer pin soldering |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
In a message dated 1/25/2003 3:55:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
> "This essay is referring to an entirely different connector
> technology that I do not recognize from the descriptive
> words. I am unaware of any connector with removable pins
> wherein the preferred methodology of wire attachment is
> soldering."
>
Bob,
Robert Dickson's description of the pins that he received with his dimmer
sounded like they were indeed S604 female pins but he also indicated that
they were to be soldered. Perhaps he mistakenly received a crimp pin type
connector but the instructions for a solder d-sub. I have assembled many
crimp pins and also soldered them for greater life expectancy. The argument
has been made that a crimp connection, properly made, will last a lifetime.
I do not dispute this but while unnecessary, a properly soldered connection
will last virtually forever. The only down side of a soldered pin is the
loss of wire flexibility near the joint.
>
>
> "Flux is never needed nor are "cold joints" a concern if
> the proper solder is used in the first place. 63/37 or
> 60/40 alloy from an electronics shop (yeah, even Radio
> Shack will have better solder than your hardware store
> will).
>
> Bob . . ."
>
>
There is certainly enough flux in the core of 63/37 or 60/40 (even Radio
Shack) electrical solder for good solder joints to be made as described in
your texts. While additional liquid flux is not "needed" it serves as an
extremely quick way to transfer heat to the joint when the iron tip is placed
at the joint. It also serves as a last second cleansing agent for the
joining metals and keeps the heat confined to a smaller area. That is an
important factor when repairing delicate PC boards or working around
temperature sensitive plastics etc.
The liquid flux can be applied via a miniature "acid" brush. A women's nail
polish brush is a good description. I know you have made literally hundreds
of thousands of solder joints in your lifetime and I know that you know how
to make good ones with all kinds of different tooling and do not need to
learn how to make a good solder joint, but I am telling you Bob, this little
trick will make soldering perfect joints the easiest thing to accomplish
since you mastered buttering toast.
You used to end your posts with a phrase something like: "Make my day, show
me where I am wrong"
Well, while you are not at all wrong here, I urge you to try this out and
comment on the speed and quality of your joints. I originally brought this
technique to light to help a complete novice succeed in making a decent
solder joint.
I again send my best wishes to your whole family in your present medical
emergency.
John
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: dimmer pin soldering |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson" <robert@thenews-journal.com>
Bob & John
there are no "tangs" on these pins, and they do look like the pins shown in
the first jpeg listed below (s604s female pins), so I guess they're crimp-on
pins. Too bad, actually. While they may be more user-friendly, they're
certainly not wallet-friendly if I have to buy another $38 tool. The other
d-sub's I have to deal with are the solder type, so it would be nice to have
them all the same. The instructions with the dimmer still talk about
soldering the pins, and there's still 6" of heatshrink in the kit. Do I
still use that? Also, could I just buy a solder-type d-sub female plug and
forego the purchase of the tool?
>> > I'm ignorant of how to properly install the pins into the female plug for
>> > the AEC lighting dimmer. The pins have a plain end and an orange tipped
>> > end.
>> > It appears that the plain end is the end that gets inserted into the plug
>> > to
>> > accept the pins coming from the dimmer heat sink. So this means that I
>> > solder the #22 wires into the orange tipped end. The instructions say to
>> > cover these solder joints with 1/8" heatshrink, but this would appear to
>> > inhibit the pin being inserted all the way into the plug. I'm obviously
>> > missing something pretty basic here and would appreciate someone
>> > straightening me out.
>
> If your dimmer came with a connector and loose pins, then it is
> a crimped on pin like those shown at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/connect/s604.jpg
>
> these are installed with a tool like:
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/rct-3.jpg
>
> and removed with a tool like:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/dse-1.jpg
>
> The tools can be ordered from B&C's catalog on our
> website at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html
>
>
I'm a *good* customer already! Thanks for the extremely educational replies.
Robert Dickson
RV-6A electrical
Message 13
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| Subject: | Turn & Bank vs. Turn Coordinator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
An aircraft in a spin has both yawing and rolling motions (unless the
spin is absolutely flat, with the nose on the horizon). If the spin
is upright, both the yaw and the roll are in the same direction, so a
TC and a TB should both indicate the same thing. But, some aircraft
have oscillatory spins, with short periods where the aircraft is
rolling the other way. Given that the TC indicates a mix of yawing
and rolling information, I'm not sure what it would indicate during
those periods when the roll and yaw were in opposite directions.
I've never flown a P-80, but the T-33, which is somewhat similar, has
quite an oscillatory spin.
If you are in an inverted spin, the roll and yaw are in opposite
directions. I'm not sure what the TC would be telling you.
For IFR use, in my opinion, both the TB and TC are equally suitable.
It is simply a matter of personal preference. For spin recovery, I
think the TB is far superior, because it is the direction of yaw that
determines which rudder pedal you need to push for recovery. I plan
to do aerobatics with my RV-8, so I'm planning on installing a Turn
and Bank.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
At 3:13 PM -0500 1/23/03, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Livingston John W Civ
>ASC/ENFD <John.Livingston@wpafb.af.mil>
>
>I'm confused. In this situation wouldn't the TC have provide the
>same information. I mean even with it tilted gyro axis, wouldn't it
>have pegged to the same limit as the TB and given you the info
>needed to stop turning? Are you TB types saying there are situations
>where the TC would actually mislead you? I'm not talking about
>symbology here, I understand those concerns and aggree with the
>gentleman who would prefer something that related to the pedals.
>
>John
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Hebeard2@aol.com [mailto:Hebeard2@aol.com]
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Re[2]: AeroElectric-List: Turn & Bank vs. Turn Coordinator
>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hebeard2@aol.com
>
>In the real world the T&B once saved my life. Back in the 50's I took off in
>a P-80 in a snowstorm with a 400' ceiling. The last thing I remember was
>climbing thru 29,000' still IFR before passing out due to a failed oxygen
>regulator. When I woke up all the gyros had tumbled except my trusty T&B
>which had the needle pointed to one side and the ball on the other side.
>
>This needed no interpretation and even in my woozzy state I knew I was in a
>spin. A spin recovery was made and I regained level flight at 7,000' on
>partial panel, still in the snowstorm. I was very lucky as the minimum safe
>emergency altitude in the area was 13,000'. Had I been required to figure out
>the situation with a TC indication I doubt that I would be here today.
>
>Just one very real world testimonial for the T&B when seconds counted.
>Needless to say I prefer the T&B.
>
>Harley E. Beard
Message 14
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob@RobsGlass.com>
Dennis O'Connor wrote to "Old Bob", saying-
"If your students learning on a TC are not as good as your students who learned
on a TB, who's fault is that?
Denny"
Clearly in your opinion it's his and you aren't entertaining any possibility you
are mistaken about this. Even if true this is an arrogant, rude and a completely
unnecessary way to treat someone who tries hard to help other pilots. We
all need to support each and discuss our flying constructively.
Lighten up Denny. You can give your view and even correct the errors of others
without being derogatory about their abilities.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV Fuselage.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: dimmer pin soldering |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:23 PM 1/25/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson"
><robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
>Bob & John
>
>there are no "tangs" on these pins, and they do look like the pins shown in
>the first jpeg listed below (s604s female pins), so I guess they're crimp-on
>pins. Too bad, actually. While they may be more user-friendly, they're
>certainly not wallet-friendly if I have to buy another $38 tool. The other
>d-sub's I have to deal with are the solder type, so it would be nice to have
>them all the same. The instructions with the dimmer still talk about
>soldering the pins, and there's still 6" of heatshrink in the kit. Do I
>still use that?
No.
> Also, could I just buy a solder-type d-sub female plug and
>forego the purchase of the tool?
Sure. Strip the wires so that when the strands just touch bottom
in the brass crimp cup leaving about 10-30 thousandths of an
inch gap between insulation and back of pin. Tin the wires and shake
off all excess. Hold the pin with some form of "helper" like that
shown in the soldering comic book. I stick a piece of .032" diameter
solder wire in the back of the pin . . . a piece just long enough to
fit inside the cavity.
Push the tinned end of the wire into the cavity and hold a little
pressure while you touch the side of the cavity with the iron. As
the little hunk of solder melts inside, the wire will slip into
place. Remove heat immediately and let the joint cool.
Yes, you can get a solder type connector at Radio Shack for about
$1.00
If you're going to put radios in your airplane, you're almost
certain to encounter the d-sub connector again. All of my future
products will feature d-sub connector interface to aircraft wiring.
You may find that the investment in tools for the task are quite
cost-effective by the time you finish your airplane.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: dimmer pin soldering |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>Robert Dickson's description of the pins that he received with his dimmer
>sounded like they were indeed S604 female pins but he also indicated that
>they were to be soldered. Perhaps he mistakenly received a crimp pin type
>connector but the instructions for a solder d-sub. I have assembled many
>crimp pins and also soldered them for greater life expectancy. The argument
>has been made that a crimp connection, properly made, will last a lifetime.
>I do not dispute this but while unnecessary, a properly soldered connection
>will last virtually forever. The only down side of a soldered pin is the
>loss of wire flexibility near the joint.
A crimped wire is no more/less flexible than a soldered wire. ALL
wire terminations require support in close proximity to the
finished joint irrespective of termination technique. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html
> >
> >
> > "Flux is never needed nor are "cold joints" a concern if
> > the proper solder is used in the first place. 63/37 or
> > 60/40 alloy from an electronics shop (yeah, even Radio
> > Shack will have better solder than your hardware store
> > will).
> >
> > Bob . . ."
> >
> >
>There is certainly enough flux in the core of 63/37 or 60/40 (even Radio
>Shack) electrical solder for good solder joints to be made as described in
>your texts. While additional liquid flux is not "needed" it serves as an
>extremely quick way to transfer heat to the joint when the iron tip is placed
>at the joint. It also serves as a last second cleansing agent for the
>joining metals and keeps the heat confined to a smaller area. That is an
>important factor when repairing delicate PC boards or working around
>temperature sensitive plastics etc.
Molten solder on the tip of the iron is a stronger heat
conductor than any flux I've encountered.
>The liquid flux can be applied via a miniature "acid" brush. A women's nail
>polish brush is a good description. I know you have made literally hundreds
>of thousands of solder joints in your lifetime and I know that you know how
>to make good ones with all kinds of different tooling and do not need to
>learn how to make a good solder joint, but I am telling you Bob, this little
>trick will make soldering perfect joints the easiest thing to accomplish
>since you mastered buttering toast.
>
>You used to end your posts with a phrase something like: "Make my day, show
>me where I am wrong"
>
>Well, while you are not at all wrong here, I urge you to try this out and
>comment on the speed and quality of your joints. I originally brought this
>technique to light to help a complete novice succeed in making a decent
>solder joint.
I'll have to ask around out at RAC but I don't think I've
ever seen any kind of flux on a workbench. I quit using externally
applied flux in my work about 1960 when I found that the zinc-chloride
component in hardware store flux trashed a project I'd built . . . yes,
flux CAN make a difficult joint easier to assemble but modern
wire solders come with just enough of the right stuff already
in place. There's none of the stuff in my shop and my newest
student (Nephew CJ) will, I suspect, find it as unnecessary
as I have.
>I again send my best wishes to your whole family in your present medical
>emergency.
Thank you. It looks like we might get to bring her home Monday.
Thought I'd do a little catchup on the computer before I head
back to the hospital.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | CAD person needed |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
I have a friend in TX who is interested in hiring someone
to convert some existing wiring diagrams for his military
jet trainer. If anyone is interested in looking at this
task, contact me off list and I'll put you in touch with
him.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Turn & Bank vs. Turn Coordinator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "BUCK AND GLORIA BUCHANAN" <glastar@3rivers.net>
Speaking of inverted spins:
I still think I can remember the Spin Recovery for the T-37.
1 Throttles---Idle
2 Rudder and Ailerons Neutral
3 Stick---Abruptly Full Aft and Hold [ If you were inverted this should
pop you into an upright spin ]
4 Rudder---Abruptly Apply Full Opposite Rudder, Opposite Spin Direction,
Opposite Turn Needle and Hold
5 One Turn After Rudder Application Abruptly Apply Full Forward Stick
6 When Spinning Stops Neutralize Rudder and Ailerons and Recover from the
ensuing dive
We didn't teach students inverted spins. I was an IP in a foreign student
squadron and I had a few cases where the student would lock his elbow during
the Stick Abruptly Full Forward.....
You QUICKLY went from and upright spin to an inverted spin the opposite
direction. We entered the spins at about 24,000 and even on a good recovery
you were down to 14,000 upon pullout and 10,000 on a poor one. The mighty
Tweet could spin like stink.
Buck
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
<khorto1537@rogers.com>
<snip>
If you are in an inverted spin, the roll and yaw are in opposite
directions. I'm not sure what the TC would be telling you.
For IFR use, in my opinion, both the TB and TC are equally suitable.
It is simply a matter of personal preference. For spin recovery, I
think the TB is far superior, because it is the direction of yaw that
determines which rudder pedal you need to push for recovery. I plan
to do aerobatics with my RV-8, so I'm planning on installing a Turn
and Bank.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
Message 19
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>Comments/Questions: I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but when
>the battery tester refers to "carbon pile" batteries, does that
>mean that it DOES NOT work with lead plate (car and airplane, etc...)
>batteries? I would think it DOES, but I want to make sure I'm not mistaken.
Check the description at
http://www.autometertest.com/specifications/sb5sp.htm
. . . the term, "carbon pile battery tester" means
that the tester uses a carbon pile loading device
to test any kind of battery.
A carbon pile is an old but still very useful
type of adjustable resistor capable of handling
a LOT of energy. The "pile" is indeed a stack of
carbon disks or plates with electrical connections
brought out to the ends of the stack. By adjusting
pressure on the stack, the total resistance of
the stack can be adjusted over a wide dynamic
range.
These were used as speed controls on electric streetcars
in the early days of electrification of the nation.
They are still the device of choice for an effective,
low cost means for loading a battery for the purposes
of testing.
Here are some pictures of a rather old example of
carbon pile rheostat . . .
http://www.montagar.com/~patj/ebjagabi12.htm
The device on the right side of this picture of
a physics experiment is a carbon pile.
http://www.montagar.com/~patj/ebjagabi12.htm
Here's a history story about carbon pile controllers
built by Allen Bradley . . . it also speaks of
double-break contacts pioneered by AB which are
now standard in all high powered contactors.
I was hoping to find a really good picture of
a carbon pile rheostat but the links above were
all I could come up with in the time I have this
evening.
There is no such thing as a carbon pile battery . . .
Bob . . .
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: dimmer pin soldering |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I recently used these crimp pins and sockets from Bob to start my
auto-pilot wire harness. I also bought the crimp tool from him. I feel
I did a better job and it was more enjoyable than soldering. But that
is just my preference.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer pin soldering
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
--> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:23 PM 1/25/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson"
><robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
>Bob & John
>
>there are no "tangs" on these pins, and they do look like the pins
>shown in the first jpeg listed below (s604s female pins), so I guess
>they're crimp-on pins. Too bad, actually. While they may be more
>user-friendly, they're certainly not wallet-friendly if I have to buy
>another $38 tool. The other d-sub's I have to deal with are the solder
>type, so it would be nice to have them all the same. The instructions
>with the dimmer still talk about soldering the pins, and there's still
>6" of heatshrink in the kit. Do I still use that?
No.
> Also, could I just buy a solder-type d-sub female plug and forego the
>purchase of the tool?
Sure. Strip the wires so that when the strands just touch bottom
in the brass crimp cup leaving about 10-30 thousandths of an
inch gap between insulation and back of pin. Tin the wires and shake
off all excess. Hold the pin with some form of "helper" like that
shown in the soldering comic book. I stick a piece of .032" diameter
solder wire in the back of the pin . . . a piece just long enough to
fit inside the cavity.
Push the tinned end of the wire into the cavity and hold a little
pressure while you touch the side of the cavity with the iron. As
the little hunk of solder melts inside, the wire will slip into
place. Remove heat immediately and let the joint cool.
Yes, you can get a solder type connector at Radio Shack for about
$1.00
If you're going to put radios in your airplane, you're almost
certain to encounter the d-sub connector again. All of my future
products will feature d-sub connector interface to aircraft wiring.
You may find that the investment in tools for the task are quite
cost-effective by the time you finish your airplane.
Bob . . .
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: dimmer pin soldering |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson" <robert@thenews-journal.com>
Larry
thanks for the real-world input. What kind of autopilot are you installing?
I've got to do the plugs for a two-axis trutrak, but they supplied the
solder-type d-sub plugs. Easily and cheaply replaced with crimp-type, I
suppose.
Robert Dickson
do not archive
----------
>From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer pin soldering
>Date: Sat, Jan 25, 2003, 10:07 PM
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> I recently used these crimp pins and sockets from Bob to start my
> auto-pilot wire harness. I also bought the crimp tool from him. I feel
> I did a better job and it was more enjoyable than soldering. But that
> is just my preference.
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
> 2003 - The year of flight!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer pin soldering
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> --> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 05:23 PM 1/25/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson"
>><robert@thenews-journal.com>
>>
>>Bob & John
>>
>>there are no "tangs" on these pins, and they do look like the pins
>>shown in the first jpeg listed below (s604s female pins), so I guess
>>they're crimp-on pins. Too bad, actually. While they may be more
>>user-friendly, they're certainly not wallet-friendly if I have to buy
>>another $38 tool. The other d-sub's I have to deal with are the solder
>>type, so it would be nice to have them all the same. The instructions
>>with the dimmer still talk about soldering the pins, and there's still
>>6" of heatshrink in the kit. Do I still use that?
>
> No.
>
>
>> Also, could I just buy a solder-type d-sub female plug and forego the
>
>>purchase of the tool?
>
> Sure. Strip the wires so that when the strands just touch bottom
> in the brass crimp cup leaving about 10-30 thousandths of an
> inch gap between insulation and back of pin. Tin the wires and shake
> off all excess. Hold the pin with some form of "helper" like that
> shown in the soldering comic book. I stick a piece of .032" diameter
> solder wire in the back of the pin . . . a piece just long enough to
> fit inside the cavity.
>
> Push the tinned end of the wire into the cavity and hold a little
> pressure while you touch the side of the cavity with the iron. As
> the little hunk of solder melts inside, the wire will slip into
> place. Remove heat immediately and let the joint cool.
>
> Yes, you can get a solder type connector at Radio Shack for about
> $1.00
>
> If you're going to put radios in your airplane, you're almost
> certain to encounter the d-sub connector again. All of my future
> products will feature d-sub connector interface to aircraft wiring.
> You may find that the investment in tools for the task are quite
> cost-effective by the time you finish your airplane.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
Message 22
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Folks -
It's time to retire this totally exhausted and heavily flogged subject of TB vs
TC. Shouldn't have been a subject on this particular forum at all.
Peace
John Schroeder
Do not archive!
1/25/2003 7:28:02 PM, "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob@RobsGlass.com> wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob@RobsGlass.com>
>
>Dennis O'Connor wrote to "Old Bob", saying-
>"If your students learning on a TC are not as good as your students who learned
on a TB, who's fault is that?
>Denny"
>Clearly in your opinion it's his and you aren't entertaining any possibility
you are mistaken about this. Even if true this is an arrogant, rude and a
completely unnecessary way to treat someone who tries hard to help other pilots.
We all need to support each and discuss our flying constructively.
>Lighten up Denny. You can give your view and even correct the errors of others
without being derogatory about their abilities.
>Rob
>Rob W M Shipley
>RV9A N919RV Fuselage.
Message 23
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N823ms@aol.com
I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: dimmer pin soldering |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I have the TruTrak DF200VS. So far I have wired the 9-pin d-subs for
each of the servos. It consumed a lot of wire!! The bundles are
roughly in place, but I haven't put the 37-pin end on yet. I got the
d-subs that accept the crimp pins at the local electrical supply place.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Robert Dickson
> Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 10:59 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer pin soldering
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson"
> --> <robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
> Larry
> thanks for the real-world input. What kind of autopilot are
> you installing? I've got to do the plugs for a two-axis
> trutrak, but they supplied the solder-type d-sub plugs.
> Easily and cheaply replaced with crimp-type, I suppose.
>
> Robert Dickson
>
>
> ----------
> >From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
> >To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer pin soldering
> >Date: Sat, Jan 25, 2003, 10:07 PM
> >
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
> > --> <Larry@BowenAero.com>
> >
> > I recently used these crimp pins and sockets from Bob to start my
> > auto-pilot wire harness. I also bought the crimp tool from him. I
> > feel I did a better job and it was more enjoyable than
> soldering. But
> > that is just my preference.
> >
> > -
> > Larry Bowen
> > Larry@BowenAero.com
> > http://BowenAero.com
> > 2003 - The year of flight!
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer pin soldering
> >
> >
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> > --> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >
> > At 05:23 PM 1/25/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson"
> >><robert@thenews-journal.com>
> >>
> >>Bob & John
> >>
> >>there are no "tangs" on these pins, and they do look like the pins
> >>shown in the first jpeg listed below (s604s female pins),
> so I guess
> >>they're crimp-on pins. Too bad, actually. While they may be more
> >>user-friendly, they're certainly not wallet-friendly if I
> have to buy
> >>another $38 tool. The other d-sub's I have to deal with are
> the solder
> >>type, so it would be nice to have them all the same. The
> instructions
> >>with the dimmer still talk about soldering the pins, and
> there's still
> >>6" of heatshrink in the kit. Do I still use that?
> >
> > No.
> >
> >
> >> Also, could I just buy a solder-type d-sub female plug and forego
> >> the
> >
> >>purchase of the tool?
> >
> > Sure. Strip the wires so that when the strands just touch bottom
> > in the brass crimp cup leaving about 10-30 thousandths of an
> > inch gap between insulation and back of pin. Tin the
> wires and shake
> > off all excess. Hold the pin with some form of "helper"
> like that
> > shown in the soldering comic book. I stick a piece of
> .032" diameter
> > solder wire in the back of the pin . . . a piece just
> long enough to
> > fit inside the cavity.
> >
> > Push the tinned end of the wire into the cavity and
> hold a little
> > pressure while you touch the side of the cavity with
> the iron. As
> > the little hunk of solder melts inside, the wire will slip into
> > place. Remove heat immediately and let the joint cool.
> >
> > Yes, you can get a solder type connector at Radio Shack
> for about
> > $1.00
> >
> > If you're going to put radios in your airplane, you're almost
> > certain to encounter the d-sub connector again. All of my future
> > products will feature d-sub connector interface to
> aircraft wiring.
> > You may find that the investment in tools for the task are quite
> > cost-effective by the time you finish your airplane.
> >
> > Bob . . .
Message 25
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| Subject: | S700-2-1 switch? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
I'm curious why B&C doesn't carry an S700-2-1 switch. Is it rare or
expensive or both?
I'd like to modify the design as shown on the 2nd page here:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/lighting/WigWag.pdf
Unlike that design, I want to get rid of the two 1-3 switches, and I could
combine the Wig-Wag selector switch into a single 2-1 (ON-OFF-ON) switch to
get this behavior:
- up: both lights on
- center: OFF
- down: flash
Am I trying to cram too much into a single switch?
Maybe somebody can tell me where I can get a 2-1 switch, or if there's a way
to do it using a 2-10.
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish)
http://www.rvproject.com
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