---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/26/03: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:33 AM - Re: Re: dimmer pin soldering (Robert Dickson) 2. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: dimmer pin soldering (Larry Bowen) 3. 01:22 PM - Thermocouple wire (richard@riley.net) 4. 02:47 PM - Re: S700-2-1 switch? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 02:51 PM - Re: Thermocouple wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 03:08 PM - Re: battery testers REDUX (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 03:15 PM - Re: S700-2-1 switch? (Dan Checkoway) 8. 05:09 PM - Re: S700-2-1 switch? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 05:42 PM - Re: S700-2-1 switch? (Dan Checkoway) 10. 06:15 PM - Strobes (Rob W M Shipley) 11. 06:38 PM - Electric fuel valves (KeithHallsten) 12. 07:02 PM - Re: Electric fuel valves (John Rourke) 13. 07:36 PM - Re: Electric fuel valves (Cy Galley) 14. 08:29 PM - Re: Re: dimmer pin soldering (Shannon Knoepflein) 15. 10:02 PM - Re: Electric fuel valves (John Rourke) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer pin soldering From: "Robert Dickson" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson" ---------- >From: "Larry Bowen" >To: >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer pin soldering >Date: Sun, Jan 26, 2003, 12:30 AM > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" > > I have the TruTrak DF200VS. So far I have wired the 9-pin d-subs for > each of the servos. It consumed a lot of wire!! The bundles are > roughly in place, but I haven't put the 37-pin end on yet. I got the > d-subs that accept the crimp pins at the local electrical supply place. > > > - > Larry Bowen > Larry@BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > 2003 - The year of flight! You & Bob have just about convinced me to go for the crimp tool. I've got exactly the same issue with the trutrak ahead of me. How are you handling the wing to fuselage transition with that bundle of wires? Robert Dickson RV-6A electrical do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:21 AM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer pin soldering --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" All my AP wiring is contained within the fuselage. The RV-8 installation has the roll servo very near the fuse centerline with a short arm connecting it to the weldment. I don't know why TruTrak has different installation methods for the tandem vs. side-by-side model RVs. There is probably a good reason..... - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com 2003 - The year of flight! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Robert Dickson > Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 9:32 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer pin soldering > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson" > --> > > > ---------- > >From: "Larry Bowen" > >To: > >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer pin soldering > >Date: Sun, Jan 26, 2003, 12:30 AM > > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" > > --> > > > > I have the TruTrak DF200VS. So far I have wired the 9-pin > d-subs for > > each of the servos. It consumed a lot of wire!! The bundles are > > roughly in place, but I haven't put the 37-pin end on yet. > I got the > > d-subs that accept the crimp pins at the local electrical supply > > place. > > > > > > - > > Larry Bowen > > Larry@BowenAero.com > > http://BowenAero.com > > 2003 - The year of flight! > > You & Bob have just about convinced me to go for the crimp > tool. I've got exactly the same issue with the trutrak ahead > of me. How are you handling the wing to fuselage transition > with that bundle of wires? > > Robert Dickson > RV-6A electrical ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:22:20 PM PST US From: richard@riley.net Subject: AeroElectric-List: Thermocouple wire --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net Is there thermocouple wire on the website? I looked but didn't find it. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:57 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: S700-2-1 switch? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:06 PM 1/25/2003 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > >I'm curious why B&C doesn't carry an S700-2-1 switch. Is it rare or >expensive or both? Never had any call for them . . . it's the same price as a 2-3 but few designers like to put OFF in the middle on an airplane panel. >I'd like to modify the design as shown on the 2nd page here: >http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/lighting/WigWag.pdf > >Unlike that design, I want to get rid of the two 1-3 switches, and I could >combine the Wig-Wag selector switch into a single 2-1 (ON-OFF-ON) switch to >get this behavior: > >- up: both lights on >- center: OFF >- down: flash How about down is OFF, center is WIG/WAG and up is ON? You can do this with a 2-10 wired per the SECOND drawing just added to the file at http://216.55.140.222/articles/WigWag/WigWag.pdf >Am I trying to cram too much into a single switch? > >Maybe somebody can tell me where I can get a 2-1 switch, or if there's a way >to do it using a 2-10. The disadvantage of this option is that you don't have all the redundancies offered by the earlier version and you always have to burn both lamps . . but if this floats your boat, the new drawing shows how to do it. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:48 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Thermocouple wire --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 01:20 PM 1/26/2003 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net > >Is there thermocouple wire on the website? I looked but didn't find it. Used to stock it but took it out of the catalog when B&C took it over. Had a couple hundred dollars worth of wire that sat on shelf for several years and moved at less than 5% of inventory per year. Check out Omega Engineering at http://www.omega.com/toc_asp/subsectionSC.asp?subsection=H06&book=Temperature . . . for about everything you might imagine in on-line offerings of thermocouple wire. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:57 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: battery testers REDUX --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > >Comments/Questions: I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but when > >the battery tester refers to "carbon pile" batteries, does that > >mean that it DOES NOT work with lead plate (car and airplane, etc...) > >batteries? I would think it DOES, but I want to make sure I'm not mistaken. > > Check the description at > > http://www.autometertest.com/specifications/sb5sp.htm > > . . . the term, "carbon pile battery tester" means > that the tester uses a carbon pile loading device > to test any kind of battery. > > A carbon pile is an old but still very useful > type of adjustable resistor capable of handling > a LOT of energy. The "pile" is indeed a stack of > carbon disks or plates with electrical connections > brought out to the ends of the stack. By adjusting > pressure on the stack, the total resistance of > the stack can be adjusted over a wide dynamic > range. > > These were used as speed controls on electric streetcars > in the early days of electrification of the nation. > They are still the device of choice for an effective, > low cost means for loading a battery for the purposes > of testing. > > Here are some pictures of a rather old example of > carbon pile rheostat . . . > > http://www.montagar.com/~patj/ebjagabi12.htm Looks like I hosed the links I was trying to paste into the piece. Here are good ones. > The device on the right side of this picture of > a physics experiment is a carbon pile. > > (Fooey . . . couldn't find it) > > Here's a history story about carbon pile controllers > built by Allen Bradley . . . it also speaks of > double-break contacts pioneered by AB which are > now standard in all high powered contactors. http://www.ab.com/abjournal/nov2002/departments/viewpoint/ > I was hoping to find a really good picture of > a carbon pile rheostat but the links above were > all I could come up with in the time I have this > evening. > > There is no such thing as a carbon pile battery . . . > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:15:05 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: S700-2-1 switch? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > Never had any call for them . . . it's the same > price as a 2-3 but few designers like to put OFF > in the middle on an airplane panel. > > ..snip.. > > How about down is OFF, center is WIG/WAG and up is > ON? You can do this with a 2-10 wired per the SECOND > drawing just added to the file at > > http://216.55.140.222/articles/WigWag/WigWag.pdf Hm...that still doesn't really accomplish my goal of having independent circuit protection for each light and keeping the system down to two components (one switch + one SSF-1). Thanks for putting that drawing together, it's definitely a helpful reference. Out of curiosity, what's the purpose of the full wave diode rectifier...sorry, I'm new. 8 ) The way I want to do it with a 2-1 switch is admittedly funky with OFF in the center, but it's the simplest solution in my opinion. So you do have the 2-1 switch in stock for $7.50? I didn't see it on the web order form. Thanks, )_( Dan ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:42 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: S700-2-1 switch? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 03:09 PM 1/26/2003 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > > Never had any call for them . . . it's the same > > price as a 2-3 but few designers like to put OFF > > in the middle on an airplane panel. > > > > ..snip.. > > > > How about down is OFF, center is WIG/WAG and up is > > ON? You can do this with a 2-10 wired per the SECOND > > drawing just added to the file at > > > > http://216.55.140.222/articles/WigWag/WigWag.pdf > >Hm...that still doesn't really accomplish my goal of having independent >circuit protection for each light and keeping the system down to two >components (one switch + one SSF-1). > >Thanks for putting that drawing together, it's definitely a helpful >reference. Out of curiosity, what's the purpose of the full wave diode >rectifier...sorry, I'm new. 8 The rectifier keeps you from having to purchase a more expensive switch but the 2-10 switch also drives you to a single power source. Download the drawing again and check out the third drawing. This shows how a four-pole switch can do what you want. Allied Electronics has this device from Honeywell-Microswitch. >The way I want to do it with a 2-1 switch is admittedly funky with OFF in >the center, but it's the simplest solution in my opinion. So you do have >the 2-1 switch in stock for $7.50? I didn't see it on the web order form. Understand. Sorry no, B&C does not stock the 2-1 . . . you're the first request we've had for it in 5 years. You might check the Allied listings at www.allied-elec.com for a 2TL1-1 switch. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:17 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: S700-2-1 switch? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > > http://216.55.140.222/articles/WigWag/WigWag.pdf > > > Download the drawing again and check out the third drawing. > This shows how a four-pole switch can do what you want. > Allied Electronics has this device from Honeywell-Microswitch. Perfect. Even nicer that down is OFF. Thanks much! )_( Dan ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:01 PM PST US From: "Rob W M Shipley" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strobes --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" Steve Sampson wrote "Rob - the RV9 wing tip is wider at the back than the front. Therefore the white light in the combined unit will not be seen from directly behind. I have gone for lights in the tips like the blue and yellow RV9 demonstrator and have finally decided to order the horribly expensive combined strobe/tail from Wheeln. Regards, Steve." Rats. Oh well, just going to have to bite the bullet I suppose. Thanks to all who gave me input on this thread. Rob Rob W M Shipley RV9A N919RV Fuselage. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:51 PM PST US From: "KeithHallsten" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electric fuel valves --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "KeithHallsten" I'm building a Velocity, and I'm considering adding a couple of fuel shut-off valves between the main strake fuel tanks and the small center sump tank. Because the fuel system is entirely in the back of the airplane, it is not very convenient to use manual or mechanical valves. So I'm looking for some reliable 3/8" electric valves. The usual concept would probably be to use normally-open solenoid valves, but I can imagine some (admittedly unlikely) conditions under which I might want to close them and then shut down the electrical system. Is anyone aware of a source of some suitable motorized valves which would stay in the last-ordered position upon loss of electrical power? Keith Hallsten ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:41 PM PST US From: John Rourke Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electric fuel valves --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke Are you on the Velocity Reflector list? Jim Agnew has listedthe part number of the electric valve he used, in JC Whitney I believe (it's used for fuel transfer in a dual-tank RV apparently). It stops in the last position commanded. -John Rourke KeithHallsten wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "KeithHallsten" > > I'm building a Velocity, and I'm considering adding a couple of fuel shut-off valves between the main strake fuel tanks and the small center sump tank. Because the fuel system is entirely in the back of the airplane, it is not very convenient to use manual or mechanical valves. So I'm looking for some reliable 3/8" electric valves. > > The usual concept would probably be to use normally-open solenoid valves, but I can imagine some (admittedly unlikely) conditions under which I might want to close them and then shut down the electrical system. Is anyone aware of a source of some suitable motorized valves which would stay in the last-ordered position upon loss of electrical power? > > Keith Hallsten > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:15 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electric fuel valves --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" The Grand Champ Long Ez had electric fuel valves and he crashed with gas because they failed him. Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "KeithHallsten" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electric fuel valves > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "KeithHallsten" > > I'm building a Velocity, and I'm considering adding a couple of fuel shut-off valves between the main strake fuel tanks and the small center sump tank. Because the fuel system is entirely in the back of the airplane, it is not very convenient to use manual or mechanical valves. So I'm looking for some reliable 3/8" electric valves. > > The usual concept would probably be to use normally-open solenoid valves, but I can imagine some (admittedly unlikely) conditions under which I might want to close them and then shut down the electrical system. Is anyone aware of a source of some suitable motorized valves which would stay in the last-ordered position upon loss of electrical power? > > Keith Hallsten > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:10 PM PST US From: "Shannon Knoepflein" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer pin soldering --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" Speaking of wiring...in my continued/final planning (its done, yeah!!!) of my wiring harness, I calculated I will have over 3000 feet of wire in my airplane, not including the wire in the instrument panel. This really surprised me...quite a bit. This includes everything though, from #2 ground to #22, from each wire in the multi-conductors to the thermocouple wire, from the coax to all the shields. Very interesting..... -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bowen Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer pin soldering --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" I have the TruTrak DF200VS. So far I have wired the 9-pin d-subs for each of the servos. It consumed a lot of wire!! The bundles are roughly in place, but I haven't put the 37-pin end on yet. I got the d-subs that accept the crimp pins at the local electrical supply place. - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com 2003 - The year of flight! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Robert Dickson > Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 10:59 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer pin soldering > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson" > --> > > Larry > thanks for the real-world input. What kind of autopilot are > you installing? I've got to do the plugs for a two-axis > trutrak, but they supplied the solder-type d-sub plugs. > Easily and cheaply replaced with crimp-type, I suppose. > > Robert Dickson > > > ---------- > >From: "Larry Bowen" > >To: > >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer pin soldering > >Date: Sat, Jan 25, 2003, 10:07 PM > > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" > > --> > > > > I recently used these crimp pins and sockets from Bob to start my > > auto-pilot wire harness. I also bought the crimp tool from him. I > > feel I did a better job and it was more enjoyable than > soldering. But > > that is just my preference. > > > > - > > Larry Bowen > > Larry@BowenAero.com > > http://BowenAero.com > > 2003 - The year of flight! > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > > Robert L. Nuckolls, III > > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer pin soldering > > > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > --> > > > > At 05:23 PM 1/25/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert Dickson" > >> > >> > >>Bob & John > >> > >>there are no "tangs" on these pins, and they do look like the pins > >>shown in the first jpeg listed below (s604s female pins), > so I guess > >>they're crimp-on pins. Too bad, actually. While they may be more > >>user-friendly, they're certainly not wallet-friendly if I > have to buy > >>another $38 tool. The other d-sub's I have to deal with are > the solder > >>type, so it would be nice to have them all the same. The > instructions > >>with the dimmer still talk about soldering the pins, and > there's still > >>6" of heatshrink in the kit. Do I still use that? > > > > No. > > > > > >> Also, could I just buy a solder-type d-sub female plug and forego > >> the > > > >>purchase of the tool? > > > > Sure. Strip the wires so that when the strands just touch bottom > > in the brass crimp cup leaving about 10-30 thousandths of an > > inch gap between insulation and back of pin. Tin the > wires and shake > > off all excess. Hold the pin with some form of "helper" > like that > > shown in the soldering comic book. I stick a piece of > .032" diameter > > solder wire in the back of the pin . . . a piece just > long enough to > > fit inside the cavity. > > > > Push the tinned end of the wire into the cavity and > hold a little > > pressure while you touch the side of the cavity with > the iron. As > > the little hunk of solder melts inside, the wire will slip into > > place. Remove heat immediately and let the joint cool. > > > > Yes, you can get a solder type connector at Radio Shack > for about > > $1.00 > > > > If you're going to put radios in your airplane, you're almost > > certain to encounter the d-sub connector again. All of my future > > products will feature d-sub connector interface to > aircraft wiring. > > You may find that the investment in tools for the task are quite > > cost-effective by the time you finish your airplane. > > > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:44 PM PST US From: John Rourke Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electric fuel valves --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke Which Grand Champ Long EZ (there have been many)? Tail number? I'm considering putting one on myself, so I'd like to know the details. Thanks, -John R. Cy Galley wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > The Grand Champ Long Ez had electric fuel valves and he crashed with gas > because they failed him. > > Cy Galley > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "KeithHallsten" > To: > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electric fuel valves > > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "KeithHallsten" > > > >>I'm building a Velocity, and I'm considering adding a couple of fuel > > shut-off valves between the main strake fuel tanks and the small center sump > tank. Because the fuel system is entirely in the back of the airplane, it > is not very convenient to use manual or mechanical valves. So I'm looking > for some reliable 3/8" electric valves. > >>The usual concept would probably be to use normally-open solenoid valves, > > but I can imagine some (admittedly unlikely) conditions under which I might > want to close them and then shut down the electrical system. Is anyone > aware of a source of some suitable motorized valves which would stay in the > last-ordered position upon loss of electrical power? > >>Keith Hallsten >> >> > > > > > > > > >