---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/03/03: 42 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:58 AM - Re: KX125 wireing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 08:59 AM - Re: Right Angle BNC (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 09:01 AM - Re: Coaxial cables (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 09:02 AM - Re: Right Angle BNC (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 09:05 AM - Re: Switches and AC (Shannon Knoepflein) 6. 09:14 AM - Wiring headset jacks 2nd try (Werner Schneider) 7. 09:39 AM - Re: Dual Alt, Dual Battery Installation (PTACKABURY@aol.com) 8. 09:57 AM - Re: 10265 Sherick (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 09:59 AM - Re: Low Cost Ground Power Jack ..... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 10:00 AM - Re: Switches and AC (Walter Casey) 11. 10:03 AM - PTT switches (Mark A. Wood) 12. 10:15 AM - Re: 10267 Strickland (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 10:16 AM - Re: Switches and AC (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 10:22 AM - LEDs (Steve Sampson) 15. 10:52 AM - Re: Dual battery / Dual Alternator in composite canard pusher (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 11:07 AM - Re: Switches and AC (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 11:10 AM - Re: Dual Alt, Dual Battery Installation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 18. 11:23 AM - Re: Wiring headset jacks 2nd try (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 19. 11:25 AM - Re: PTT switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 20. 11:28 AM - Re: LEDs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 21. 11:44 AM - Re: Switches and AC (Shannon Knoepflein) 22. 12:06 PM - switch keyway question (Dan Checkoway) 23. 12:20 PM - Re: Switches and AC (William Shaffer) 24. 12:20 PM - Re: Switches and AC (Shannon Knoepflein) 25. 12:43 PM - Re: Dual Alt, Dual Battery Installation (PTACKABURY@aol.com) 26. 12:53 PM - Re: Switches and AC (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 27. 01:01 PM - Re: Switches and AC (Jim Jewell) 28. 01:05 PM - Re: switch keyway question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 29. 01:06 PM - Re: switch keyway question (Scot Stambaugh) 30. 01:16 PM - Re: Dual Alt, Dual Battery Installation (Shannon Knoepflein) 31. 01:21 PM - Re: Dual Alt, Dual Battery Installation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 32. 03:43 PM - Strobes (frequent flyer) 33. 03:57 PM - Re: Strobes (Scot Stambaugh) 34. 04:05 PM - Strobes (frequent flyer) 35. 04:12 PM - Re: switch keyway question (Werner Schneider) 36. 04:25 PM - Re: Wiring headset jacks 2nd try (Werner Schneider) 37. 04:27 PM - Re: Strobes (Scot Stambaugh) 38. 04:53 PM - Re: cycling voltmeter and ammeter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 39. 06:13 PM - DC-DC Converter or AC Inverter w/ Standby ADI???? (Brian & Debi Shannon) 40. 06:20 PM - Re: Right Angle BNC (Kevin Horton) 41. 06:59 PM - Re: LEDs (Jerzy Krasinski) 42. 07:53 PM - ABMM (Tom Parks) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:54 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX125 wireing --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:05 AM 2/1/2003 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" > >All > >I am wiring my Panel. My Bendix/King KX125 has three output lines labeled >"AUX AUDIO 1 , 2 , 3 ". What are they used for? I am trying to figure out >the audio wiring of this thing. > > >Cliff Shaw >1041 Euclid ave. >Edmonds WA 98020 >(425) 776-5555 > Europa XS N229WC "Wile E Coyote" Many nav/coms of years gone by had auxiliary audio INPUTS to their audio amplifiers that could be used to mix outputs from other sources together into the same headphone/speaker signals. I suspect that's what these are. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:15 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Right Angle BNC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > If it were my airplane, I'd install a cable male connector, > > mate it with a right angle adapter and shrink a chunk > > of double walled tubing over the interface to make it > > permanent. . . . the po' boy's right angle connector. > >I've done that in the past, and it's seemed to work fine for me. But >someone who *says* that they know RF tells me that you loose a lot of >energy out the angle unless it's a super special very expensive right angle >that has a little horseshoe magnet in it. Any truth to that? Nope . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:37 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Coaxial cables --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:49 PM 1/31/2003 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" > >The Chief Aircraft catalog has 3 different types of coaxial cable: RG-58 >(50 ohm), RG-142 (low loss for DME/TPX/GPS) and RG-400(low loss for GPS). >I have used only the multi-stranded RG58 in my homebuilt for all the >radios, not knowing about the other two. Why the other two??? >Wayne RG-58 is an obsolete spec coax of WWII era using PVC and polyethylene insulations and single braid shield. Hasn't been used in a production aircraft for decades. RG400 cousins are lower loss, double shielded, modern insulation products that march along hand-in-hand with tefzel insulated wires for the rest of your airplane. It's the year-2003 way to go. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:56 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Right Angle BNC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 01:05 PM 2/1/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bernie_C@erols.com > >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > >What about these guys?? > > ><> > > ><> > >The 4053 is solder. No special tools. That will work. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:40 AM PST US From: "Shannon Knoepflein" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" For an application like this, I would suggest the Perfect Cubes, which are solid state devices that Eric Jones is building. I have been testing these units the past couple weeks, and have found their performance to be great. They draw very little current to turn them on, so your switches should last for a long time with little degradation. The cubes themselves, being solid state, will far outlast any relay. Just something to think about. I'm using these for my taxi lights (11A), landing lights (11A), pitot heat (7A), Navs (5A), and strobes (7A). I'm using Eric's larger units called the Powerlink JR on my gear up and down (35A) and my avionics busses (15A and 22A). No relays in my plane :) (well, hopefully someday) Eric is also working on a larger unit, called a Powerlink, that will hopefully be able to replace the stardard battery contactors and handle 200A+. I have a prototype, and hope to test it soon. Eric has some other cool products too, like the super diodes, a wig wag flasher, and is working on LED bulbs. All kinds of cool electronic gadgets that should make our planes safer. --- Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob W M Shipley Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" Hey Bob, I saw this in the RV digest and would like your comments. Subject: RV-List: Re: [ExperimentalAvionics] off topic request Hi.. I agree completely with what Marshall just said about using a relay to handle current, but would add that believing the rating of a switch can be VERY hazardous to you health. I rode a "quiet" 2 cycle engine to the ground twice before realizing that the Mag switch that was rated at 20Amps AC is only good for about 1/10th that in DC. It arched across the contacts and shut the magneto off by grounding it. If you do go with a switch and it operates on DC, make sure the switch has the current rating you need for DC Hope this helps someone avoid my impromptu soaring lession Ron DeWees Atlanta, Ga ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall M. Dues" For switching rather high current (10 to 20 amp) circuits, it is better > to use a lesser rated switch to control a small Bosch type relay that > uses 30 to 40 amp contacts to turn on the heavier loads, like landing > lights, etc. These little relays are popular in most German vehicles. > They are available at most auto parts stores. I used them exclusively > to turn on halogen type landing and taxi lights on my RV-6. Never had a > failure in 675 hours. Switching heavy currents through a toggle switch > makes for relatively short life of the switch. The contacts arc each > time they make and break, and soon they either weld themselves shut, or > simply carbon themselves over and won't make next time they are turned > on. > Marshall Dues Katy, Texas RV-6 N243MD It sounds like a way of ontroducing more failure points if the available switches are actually up to snuff. How's Dee? Making good progress I hope. Rob Rob W M Shipley RV9A N919RV Fuselage. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:14:31 AM PST US From: "Werner Schneider" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring headset jacks 2nd try --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" As I've got no answer I repost this message Dear all, another question where I'm a bit uncertain, even after reading Bob's Shop Notes and comparing them with the Seminar wirebook. Maybe Bob, if you read this could you comment? Bob, in the shop note you say, that you use 3 wire shielded, and the shield itself is connected on both (?) sides to the Mic LO, did you use the 3 wire because of wiring both mic's to only 4 ports? (You used the shielding instead of one wire). I have a used Garmin 340, where I have a separate port for each mic/phone, should I use a 2wire shielded for each mic using the shield as the third wire (if yes, which contact should be wired with the shield)? Same for the phones, if I use the same approach I could use a 1wire shielded wire for the two contacts. It would save weight and money. Many thanks for your feedback Werner ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:57 AM PST US From: PTACKABURY@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual Alt, Dual Battery Installation --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PTACKABURY@aol.com Bob: I am building an unpressurized Lancair IV and am designing the power distribution to support all electric dual electronic ignition operation (no vacuum, no mags). I am therefore using your Z-14 diagram as the foundation for the dual alt, dual battery installation. My question: what criteria should I use to size the second alternator and second battery? I would like to save weight where possible and yet insure these devices are capable of supporting what ever load an emergency might require. thank you, paul ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:16 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 10265 Sherick --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > >Thanks for the reply to my previous email concerning antenna ground >planes. I did review the antenna section in your (nicely done) book and >it brings up a couple more questions that I hope you will comment on. > >I am using a Comant COMM antenna (swept back version) on the e-glass belly >pan. I have a total space of 24" wide x 48" long for a ground plane >area. The Comm antenna is back from a Transponder antenna, which is >placed forward on the belly pan. > >Question: Can I use the copper tape approach for the COMM antenna with the >limited belly pan width of 24 inches? Or, is it possible to just use a >single piece of aluminum 24" x 48" for the ground plane for both the COMM >and Transponder antennas? Which approach might be more effective as a >ground plane? One never achieves an ideal ground plane on small aircraft. ANY ground plane is better than NO ground plane. Do the best you can and don't worry about it. Radials can run up the contours and still be VERY effective. It's the length that is magic, not the "flatness" . . . any hunk of aluminum you can fit in there will probably be adequate also. >Regarding the Marker Beacon antenna: You indicate a "sled" type approach >75" in length. Bob Archer has a 1" wide copper tape version 40" long. Is >either approach OK the the Marker Beacon antenna requirement? Also, how >for from the COMM ground plane should the Marker Beacon antenna be located? That 75" figure is an error . . . which you are the first one to bring it to my attention. 75MHz marker beacon is 4 meters full wavelength making a 1/4 wave antenna 1 meter long or 40". The 40" internal antenna wire would be fine. It can begin at the edge of your aluminum sheet ground plane. Ground shield of marker beacon coax to ground plane and connect center conductor of coax to 40' piece of wire that is straight as possible but again, length is magic, straightness is less important. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:59:48 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Cost Ground Power Jack ..... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:43 PM 1/31/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Dudley > >Bob, >I believe that I have found the answer to my own question. The symbol >that I took as a circuit breaker is a switch breaker. Then the operating >procedure would be to connect the external power which could be >confirmed by the push-to-test light. The switch breaker would have >control of the contactor and would have to be switched off at the end of >the transfer to avoid the battery holding the contactor closed. > >Regards, > >Richard Dudley You got it! ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:28 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC From: Walter Casey --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey Shannon, How do we contact Eric Jones. On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 10:04 AM, Shannon Knoepflein wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" > > > For an application like this, I would suggest the Perfect Cubes, which > are solid state devices that Eric Jones is building. I have been > testing these units the past couple weeks, and have found their > performance to be great. They draw very little current to turn them > on, > so your switches should last for a long time with little degradation. > The cubes themselves, being solid state, will far outlast any relay. > Just something to think about. > > I'm using these for my taxi lights (11A), landing lights (11A), pitot > heat (7A), Navs (5A), and strobes (7A). I'm using Eric's larger units > called the Powerlink JR on my gear up and down (35A) and my avionics > busses (15A and 22A). No relays in my plane :) (well, hopefully > someday) > > Eric is also working on a larger unit, called a Powerlink, that will > hopefully be able to replace the stardard battery contactors and handle > 200A+. I have a prototype, and hope to test it soon. > > Eric has some other cool products too, like the super diodes, a wig wag > flasher, and is working on LED bulbs. All kinds of cool electronic > gadgets that should make our planes safer. > > --- > Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob > W > M Shipley > To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" > > > Hey Bob, > I saw this in the RV digest and would like your comments. > > Subject: RV-List: Re: [ExperimentalAvionics] off topic request > Hi.. I agree completely with what Marshall just said about using a > relay > to > handle current, but would add that believing the rating of a switch can > be > VERY hazardous to you health. I rode a "quiet" 2 cycle engine to the > ground > twice before realizing that the Mag switch that was rated at 20Amps AC > is > only good for about 1/10th that in DC. It arched across the contacts > and > shut the magneto off by grounding it. If you do go with a switch and > it > operates on DC, make sure the switch has the current rating you need > for > DC > Hope this helps someone avoid my impromptu soaring lession > Ron DeWees Atlanta, Ga > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall M. Dues" > > For switching rather high current (10 to 20 amp) circuits, it is > better >> to use a lesser rated switch to control a small Bosch type relay that >> uses 30 to 40 amp contacts to turn on the heavier loads, like landing >> lights, etc. These little relays are popular in most German vehicles. >> They are available at most auto parts stores. I used them exclusively >> to turn on halogen type landing and taxi lights on my RV-6. Never had > a >> failure in 675 hours. Switching heavy currents through a toggle > switch >> makes for relatively short life of the switch. The contacts arc each >> time they make and break, and soon they either weld themselves shut, > or >> simply carbon themselves over and won't make next time they are turned >> on. >> Marshall Dues Katy, Texas RV-6 N243MD > > It sounds like a way of ontroducing more failure points if the > available > switches are actually up to snuff. > > How's Dee? Making good progress I hope. > Rob > Rob W M Shipley > RV9A N919RV Fuselage. > > > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:39 AM PST US From: "Mark A. Wood" Subject: AeroElectric-List: PTT switches --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood" Hello all Forgive me if this has been addressed before, I am new to this list and did not have luck running the archives. I was wiring a PTT switch for my hand held 520 JRC radio. It seems to work better and shut off faster if I use only a single switch from the tip of the plug to the ground, and leave the center connector to center connector connection connected rather then disconnecting them with a second switch when I release the PTT switch. ( I hope that is understandable to people.) Does anyone have feelings on weather or not I should leave this as a single switch or double it up and disconnect the center connectors? _____________________ _____ l \/ \ ___________l_________/\_____/ ground center tip Thanks Mark Wood ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:31 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 10267 Strickland --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > >I'm an RV-6 builder and I'm building your dual alt/single battery >electrical system (Figure Z-12 in revision 10.) I have a couple of questions: > >1) I'm running a dual electronic ignition (Light Speed Engineering, Klaus >Saviors system) and he recommends I connect to the battery, by-passing any >busses. He also recommends a 5 amp circuit breaker. Your schematic shows >electronic ignition coming off the battery bus. I'm a total fan of your >design and was planning on running one electronic ignition, via the fuse >block, off the battery bus and the other off the essential bus, what >should I do? I think I'd run both of them off the battery bus. Each on with it's own fuse. . . . since this is an electrically dependent engine, you might consider adding a second battery, (even if just a small, 6-8 a.h. device), a battery relay (mini-contactor) to support one of ignition systems. >2)Your schematic shows a circuit braker for the alt fld, lv warn, and >start. How do I connect a circuit breaker to the fuse block? Those diagrams are generic depictions of architectures. If you use fuse blocks, then only the ALT FLD gets a breaker on an EXTENSION of the bus created by fusible link connection to the main feedpoint bolt of the fuseblock. (See Figure Z-11) If you use breakers as depicted in Z-12, then everything feeds from your fabricated bus via breakers. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | The man who does not read good books has no advantage | | over the man who cannot read them. | | - Mark Twain | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:32 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 05:14 PM 2/1/2003 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" > >Hey Bob, >I saw this in the RV digest and would like your comments. > >Subject: RV-List: Re: [ExperimentalAvionics] off topic request >Hi.. I agree completely with what Marshall just said about using a relay to >handle current, but would add that believing the rating of a switch can be >VERY hazardous to you health. I rode a "quiet" 2 cycle engine to the ground >twice before realizing that the Mag switch that was rated at 20Amps AC is >only good for about 1/10th that in DC. It arched across the contacts and >shut the magneto off by grounding it. If you do go with a switch and it >operates on DC, make sure the switch has the current rating you need for DC >Hope this helps someone avoid my impromptu soaring lession >Ron DeWees Atlanta, Ga See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:34 AM PST US From: "Steve Sampson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: LEDs --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" I am about to order some LEDs. Roughly how many mcd do I need for the following: 1. For a red flood for the cabin if all else fails so I can see in dim light? 2. A white one to provide some light in the baggage compartement to find something in the dark when the plane is parked? Thanks, Steve. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:14 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Dual battery / Dual Alternator in composite canard pusher boeing.com> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:43 AM 2/3/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Bob, > >I managed to work this one out myself (like I should have in the first >place). The listed connections in the email below are incorrect. I now have: > >1. 2AWG all the way from Main battery to engine crankcase ground. >2. Ground strap from engine crankcase ground to firewall fast on ground >bus (5/16" brass bolt). >3. 4AWG from firewall fast on ground bus (5/16" brass bolt) to instrument >panel fast on ground bus (5/16" brass bolt). >4. 2AWG from Aux battery to firewall fast on ground bus (5/16" brass bolt). > >Unless you have any further comment, I'll move fwd with this plan. > >- Wayne Take a look at http://216.55.140.222/temp/CPDBFB.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:22 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > >I'm using these for my taxi lights (11A), landing lights (11A), pitot >heat (7A), Navs (5A), and strobes (7A). A 7A "rated" toggle or rocker switch would run for thousands of cycles in any of these applications. > I'm using Eric's larger units >called the Powerlink JR on my gear up and down (35A) and my avionics >busses (15A and 22A). Avionics busses?????? how come? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:11 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual Alt, Dual Battery Installation --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 12:38 PM 2/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PTACKABURY@aol.com > > >Bob: I am building an unpressurized Lancair IV and am designing the power >distribution to support all electric dual electronic ignition operation (no >vacuum, no mags). I am therefore using your Z-14 diagram as the foundation >for the dual alt, dual battery installation. My question: what criteria >should I use to size the second alternator and second battery? I would like >to save weight where possible and yet insure these devices are capable of >supporting what ever load an emergency might require. thank you, paul You haven't got many choices for vacuum pump driven alternators. There's an 8A and a 20A device currently on the market. The 8A is probably too small, so go with the SD-20. Bob . . . p.s. please don't think of ANY failure in your electrical system as being worthy of calling it an EMERGENCY. If we don't end up with a system that takes ANY failure as a ho-hum, no-sweat event, then we haven't done our homework. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:12 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring headset jacks 2nd try --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > Bob, in the shop note you say, that you use 3 wire shielded, and the shield > itself is connected on both (?) sides to the Mic LO, did you use the 3 wire > because of wiring both mic's to only 4 ports? (You used the shielding > instead of one wire). The shop notes are one example of suitable wiring as it applies to the 760VHF that has one PTT and two mic inputs for the pair crew stations. This means I have three active wires departing the radio and the need for one ground return. I had some 3-conductor shielded and the drawing illustrates a technique for using wire on hand for this task. > I have a used Garmin 340, where I have a separate port for each mic/phone, > should I use a 2wire shielded for each mic using the shield as the third > wire (if yes, which contact should be wired with the shield)? Same for the > phones, if I use the same approach I could use a 1wire shielded wire for >the > two contacts. It would save weight and money. Here's a wirebook I did for a 430/340 combo in the AGATE Bonanza a few years ago. http://216.55.140.222/temp/gns430.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:36 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PTT switches --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 01:02 PM 2/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood" > >Hello all >Forgive me if this has been addressed before, I am new to this list >and did not have luck running the archives. > >I was wiring a PTT switch for my hand held 520 JRC radio. It seems to >work better and shut off faster if I use only a single switch from >the tip of the plug to the ground, and leave the center connector to >center connector connection connected rather then disconnecting them >with a second switch when I release the PTT switch. ( I hope that is >understandable to people.) >Does anyone have feelings on weather or not I should leave this as a >single switch or double it up and disconnect the center connectors? > >_____________________ _____ > l \/ \ >___________l_________/\_____/ >ground center tip > >Thanks >Mark Wood You difficult to argue with success . . . but if what you're doing is contrary to manufacturer's instructions, there is some risk that requirements unknown to us are not being satisfied. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:28:28 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LEDs --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 06:28 PM 2/3/2003 +0000, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" > > >I am about to order some LEDs. Roughly how many mcd do I need for the >following: > >1. For a red flood for the cabin if all else fails so I can see in dim >light? >2. A white one to provide some light in the baggage compartement to >find something in the dark when the plane is parked? The human eye is an amazing device with a huge dynamic range. ANY high output led (600 MCD or more) will produce usable results for total light output. You may find that the light doesn't spread enough for convenient use which may drive a need for multiple lamps. It's a an experiment that may well dictate changes to whatever you put in the first time. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:44:18 AM PST US From: "Shannon Knoepflein" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" Eric M. Jones emjones@charter.net He's on this list. --- Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Casey Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey Shannon, How do we contact Eric Jones. On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 10:04 AM, Shannon Knoepflein wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" > > > For an application like this, I would suggest the Perfect Cubes, which > are solid state devices that Eric Jones is building. I have been > testing these units the past couple weeks, and have found their > performance to be great. They draw very little current to turn them > on, > so your switches should last for a long time with little degradation. > The cubes themselves, being solid state, will far outlast any relay. > Just something to think about. > > I'm using these for my taxi lights (11A), landing lights (11A), pitot > heat (7A), Navs (5A), and strobes (7A). I'm using Eric's larger units > called the Powerlink JR on my gear up and down (35A) and my avionics > busses (15A and 22A). No relays in my plane :) (well, hopefully > someday) > > Eric is also working on a larger unit, called a Powerlink, that will > hopefully be able to replace the stardard battery contactors and handle > 200A+. I have a prototype, and hope to test it soon. > > Eric has some other cool products too, like the super diodes, a wig wag > flasher, and is working on LED bulbs. All kinds of cool electronic > gadgets that should make our planes safer. > > --- > Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob > W > M Shipley > To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" > > > Hey Bob, > I saw this in the RV digest and would like your comments. > > Subject: RV-List: Re: [ExperimentalAvionics] off topic request > Hi.. I agree completely with what Marshall just said about using a > relay > to > handle current, but would add that believing the rating of a switch can > be > VERY hazardous to you health. I rode a "quiet" 2 cycle engine to the > ground > twice before realizing that the Mag switch that was rated at 20Amps AC > is > only good for about 1/10th that in DC. It arched across the contacts > and > shut the magneto off by grounding it. If you do go with a switch and > it > operates on DC, make sure the switch has the current rating you need > for > DC > Hope this helps someone avoid my impromptu soaring lession > Ron DeWees Atlanta, Ga > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall M. Dues" > > For switching rather high current (10 to 20 amp) circuits, it is > better >> to use a lesser rated switch to control a small Bosch type relay that >> uses 30 to 40 amp contacts to turn on the heavier loads, like landing >> lights, etc. These little relays are popular in most German vehicles. >> They are available at most auto parts stores. I used them exclusively >> to turn on halogen type landing and taxi lights on my RV-6. Never had > a >> failure in 675 hours. Switching heavy currents through a toggle > switch >> makes for relatively short life of the switch. The contacts arc each >> time they make and break, and soon they either weld themselves shut, > or >> simply carbon themselves over and won't make next time they are turned >> on. >> Marshall Dues Katy, Texas RV-6 N243MD > > It sounds like a way of ontroducing more failure points if the > available > switches are actually up to snuff. > > How's Dee? Making good progress I hope. > Rob > Rob W M Shipley > RV9A N919RV Fuselage. > > > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:06:19 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch keyway question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" Sorry if the answer to this is obvious... I'm still in the panel planning phase...haven't bought any switches or cut any holes yet. When drilling your panel for toggle switches, is the keyway slot generally ignored? I mean...maybe if you have the panel laser cut you could have the keyway notch integrated into the cutout, but when drilling your own 15/32" holes there doesn't seem to be a good way to do this. Does simply using a lock washer of some sort prevent switch rotation? )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:15 PM PST US From: William Shaffer Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: William Shaffer Shannon Knoepflein wrote:--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" Eric M. Jones emjones@charter.net He's on this list. --- Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Casey Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey Shannon, How do we contact Eric Jones. On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 10:04 AM, Shannon Knoepflein wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" > > > For an application like this, I would suggest the Perfect Cubes, which > are solid state devices that Eric Jones is building. I have been > testing these units the past couple weeks, and have found their > performance to be great. They draw very little current to turn them > on, > so your switches should last for a long time with little degradation. > The cubes themselves, being solid state, will far outlast any relay. > Just something to think about. > > I'm using these for my taxi lights (11A), landing lights (11A), pitot > heat (7A), Navs (5A), and strobes (7A). I'm using Eric's larger units > called the Powerlink JR on my gear up and down (35A) and my avionics > busses (15A and 22A). No relays in my plane :) (well, hopefully > someday) > > Eric is also working on a larger unit, called a Powerlink, that will > hopefully be able to replace the stardard battery contactors and handle > 200A+. I have a prototype, and hope to test it soon. > > Eric has some other cool products too, like the super diodes, a wig wag > flasher, and is working on LED bulbs. All kinds of cool electronic > gadgets that should make our planes safer. > > --- > Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob > W > M Shipley > To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" > > > Hey Bob, > I saw this in the RV digest and would like your comments. > > Subject: RV-List: Re: [ExperimentalAvionics] off topic request > Hi.. I agree completely with what Marshall just said about using a > relay > to > handle current, but would add that believing the rating of a switch can > be > VERY hazardous to you health. I rode a "quiet" 2 cycle engine to the > ground > twice before realizing that the Mag switch that was rated at 20Amps AC > is > only good for about 1/10th that in DC. It arched across the contacts > and > shut the magneto off by grounding it. If you do go with a switch and > it > operates on DC, make sure the switch has the current rating you need > for > DC > Hope this helps someone avoid my impromptu soaring lession > Ron DeWees Atlanta, Ga > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall M. Dues" > >> For switching rather high current (10 to 20 amp) circuits, it is > better >> to use a lesser rated switch to control a small Bosch type relay that >> uses 30 to 40 amp contacts to turn on the heavier loads, like landing >> lights, etc. These little relays are popular in most German vehicles. >> They are available at most auto parts stores. I used them exclusively >> to turn on halogen type landing and taxi lights on my RV-6. Never had > a >> failure in 675 hours. Switching heavy currents through a toggle > switch >> makes for relatively short life of the switch. The contacts arc each >> time they make and break, and soon they either weld themselves shut, > or >> simply carbon themselves over and won't make next time they are turned >> on. >> Marshall Dues Katy, Texas RV-6 N243MD > > It sounds like a way of ontroducing more failure points if the > available > switches are actually up to snuff. > > How's Dee? Making good progress I hope. > Rob > Rob W M Shipley > RV9A N919RV Fuselage. > > > _- > ====================================================================== > _- you san go candhsales.com they have 50 amp DC aircraft relays for $7.95 ea. > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > > --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:15 PM PST US From: "Shannon Knoepflein" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" Bob, ....per comments about switches versus solid state devices.... I stick with 1,000,000 cycles, thanks. No big deal, but to each his own, and in this case I'll stick with my way. You always want people to tell you why. Well, in this case, my reason is quite simple.....1,000,000+ cycles is better than 1,000. Solid state devices will always win when it becomes a battle of dependability, especially where vibration is a concern. Also, the solid state devices have thermal shutout protection modes that no switch or relay have. The sizes and weight are also much less for the solid state devices. The cube (20A) is about the size of a dice, the powerlink jr (35A) is the size of a domino. In my design I haven't chosen to implement this, as they aren't 100% proven yet, but in the future, you won't even need fuses or circuit breakers with these devices and their protection modes.....if they draw too much current, they trip out until the current reaches a normal level. This would be a highly simplified system without CB's or fuses, and a lot less weight, AND no pilot thought/action required. Until they are proven and I have some hours on them, I chose to go a more traditional route.... http://www.lancaironline.net/pix/shannon-jan03/panel_cbs http://www.lancaironline.net/pix/shannon-jan03/panel_perfect_cube_2 with mounting the cubes DIRECTLY to the circuit breaker, as their tab is a Vin terminal also. ....per questions about avionics busses..... Bob, we've been through all this before on the avionics busses, http://shannon.v8eaters.com/images/lancair/ the spreadsheet with all the loads is there. My devices, Chelton Flight Systems EFIS 2000 system, are not DO-160 on the experimental side (and half the price versus the certified DO-160 version.....the certified version wasn't even available when I purchased mine though, so it wasn't an option), so they require a dedicated buss during starting. I realize this isn't ideal, but it is what I have chosen to work with, and I am quite happen with them. Therefore, I decided to design a system as simple and yet robust as possible within the design limits I chose by using the CFS EFIS. I think I've succeeded. Here's what I've done: The EFIS has to be behind an AV MASTER, no other way about it. I also like the convenience of an AV MASTER to simplify power up and down of my quite complex all electric panel. So, 1) I have to have it to protect my "wimpy" or "pampered" EFIS, and 2) I like the convenience. Also, since the EFIS is one of my essential flight instruments, it needs to be on an ESS buss, so basically I combined an ESS (or endurance as you call it now) buss and a AVIONICS buss together. My design is simple. There is a switch on the panel that controls a Powerlink Jr SSR. The Jr SSR is fed from the main buss through a diode and then on to the ESS AV devices. Now, this alone doesn't make it an ESS buss, so an ALT FEED switch will switch power directly to this ESS buss from the battery in a true emergency, just leaving on what I need, which the EFIS happens to be one of the devices. The only difference between my system and yours is instead of just the diode feeding the ESS buss, I added a interruptible power, so I can shut it off and make it an AV buss too and protect the EFIS during starting. To make this aspect as dependable as possible, I went beyond just a normal relay, and am using a solid state device. In true ESS buss form, this is all backed up by a ALT FEED switch. I think I've come up with the simplest system and the most robust that will fit my needs. I see no drawbacks. As always, I'm open to comments. --- Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > >I'm using these for my taxi lights (11A), landing lights (11A), pitot >heat (7A), Navs (5A), and strobes (7A). A 7A "rated" toggle or rocker switch would run for thousands of cycles in any of these applications. > I'm using Eric's larger units >called the Powerlink JR on my gear up and down (35A) and my avionics >busses (15A and 22A). Avionics busses?????? how come? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:15 PM PST US From: PTACKABURY@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual Alt, Dual Battery Installation --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PTACKABURY@aol.com Thanks Bob: 20A backup alternator it is. Now how do I size the backup battery? paul ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:25 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 03:18 PM 2/2/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" > > >Bob, > >....per comments about switches versus solid state devices.... >I think I've come up with the simplest system and the most robust that >will fit my needs. I see no drawbacks. As always, I'm open to >comments. Fair 'nuf. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:38 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Recently I have noticed a few listers sending requests for lost or missing contact information for other listers. A simple way to obtain the most recent email addresses of other listers is to go to the list archives and enter the name or the email address that you have for the person being sought. Entering your own email address/s can be interesting, A sort of journal like experience might describe the outcome. do not archive ... Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Shaffer" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: William Shaffer > > > Shannon Knoepflein wrote:--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" > > Eric M. Jones emjones@charter.net > > He's on this list. > > --- > Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Walter Casey > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey > > > Shannon, > How do we contact Eric Jones. > > On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 10:04 AM, Shannon Knoepflein wrote: > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" > > > > > > For an application like this, I would suggest the Perfect Cubes, which > > are solid state devices that Eric Jones is building. I have been > > testing these units the past couple weeks, and have found their > > performance to be great. They draw very little current to turn them > > on, > > so your switches should last for a long time with little degradation. > > The cubes themselves, being solid state, will far outlast any relay. > > Just something to think about. > > > > I'm using these for my taxi lights (11A), landing lights (11A), pitot > > heat (7A), Navs (5A), and strobes (7A). I'm using Eric's larger units > > called the Powerlink JR on my gear up and down (35A) and my avionics > > busses (15A and 22A). No relays in my plane :) (well, hopefully > > someday) > > > > Eric is also working on a larger unit, called a Powerlink, that will > > hopefully be able to replace the stardard battery contactors and > handle > > 200A+. I have a prototype, and hope to test it soon. > > > > Eric has some other cool products too, like the super diodes, a wig > wag > > flasher, and is working on LED bulbs. All kinds of cool electronic > > gadgets that should make our planes safer. > > > > --- > > Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob > > > W > > M Shipley > > To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" > > > > > > Hey Bob, > > I saw this in the RV digest and would like your comments. > > > > Subject: RV-List: Re: [ExperimentalAvionics] off topic request > > Hi.. I agree completely with what Marshall just said about using a > > relay > > to > > handle current, but would add that believing the rating of a switch > can > > be > > VERY hazardous to you health. I rode a "quiet" 2 cycle engine to the > > ground > > twice before realizing that the Mag switch that was rated at 20Amps AC > > is > > only good for about 1/10th that in DC. It arched across the contacts > > and > > shut the magneto off by grounding it. If you do go with a switch and > > > it > > operates on DC, make sure the switch has the current rating you need > > for > > DC > > Hope this helps someone avoid my impromptu soaring lession > > Ron DeWees Atlanta, Ga > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall M. Dues" > > >> For switching rather high current (10 to 20 amp) circuits, it is > > better > >> to use a lesser rated switch to control a small Bosch type relay that > >> uses 30 to 40 amp contacts to turn on the heavier loads, like > landing > >> lights, etc. These little relays are popular in most German > vehicles. > >> They are available at most auto parts stores. I used them > exclusively > >> to turn on halogen type landing and taxi lights on my RV-6. Never > had > > a > >> failure in 675 hours. Switching heavy currents through a toggle > > switch > >> makes for relatively short life of the switch. The contacts arc each > >> time they make and break, and soon they either weld themselves shut, > > or > >> simply carbon themselves over and won't make next time they are > turned > >> on. > >> Marshall Dues Katy, Texas RV-6 N243MD > > > > It sounds like a way of ontroducing more failure points if the > > available > > switches are actually up to snuff. > > > > How's Dee? Making good progress I hope. > > Rob > > Rob W M Shipley > > RV9A N919RV Fuselage. > > > > > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > _- you san go candhsales.com they have 50 amp DC aircraft relays for $7.95 ea. > > ====================================================================== > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:59 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: switch keyway question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 11:52 AM 2/3/2003 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > >Sorry if the answer to this is obvious... > >I'm still in the panel planning phase...haven't bought any switches or cut >any holes yet. > >When drilling your panel for toggle switches, is the keyway slot generally >ignored? I mean...maybe if you have the panel laser cut you could have the >keyway notch integrated into the cutout, but when drilling your own 15/32" >holes there doesn't seem to be a good way to do this. Does simply using a >lock washer of some sort prevent switch rotation? Ignore the keyway for cutting panel and then use anti-rotation washer that comes with switch. Hole layout for using these washers is shown on page 6 of: http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/tr/catalog/tl_series.pdf Note that tab on anti-rotation washer may be on the OPPOSITE side from switch keyway so the anti-rotation hole may need to be BELOW the main clearance hole. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:02 PM PST US From: Scot Stambaugh Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: switch keyway question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scot Stambaugh My switches came with the washer that fits over the flat on the threaded shaft. The washer has a tab that is bent 90 deg. so I drilled a small hole next to the main switch mounting hole and clocked it properly to align the switch. This keeps the switches properly oriented during installation and keeps them that way during use. Because the switch can't turn during normal use, it also helps to prevent the switch nut from working loose. scot At 11:52 AM 2/3/2003, Dan Checkoway wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > >Sorry if the answer to this is obvious... > >I'm still in the panel planning phase...haven't bought any switches or cut >any holes yet. > >When drilling your panel for toggle switches, is the keyway slot generally >ignored? I mean...maybe if you have the panel laser cut you could have the >keyway notch integrated into the cutout, but when drilling your own 15/32" >holes there doesn't seem to be a good way to do this. Does simply using a >lock washer of some sort prevent switch rotation? > >)_( Dan >RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish) >http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:16:30 PM PST US From: "Shannon Knoepflein" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dual Alt, Dual Battery Installation --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" How can you size the altenator without even knowing what loads will be on it? I'd suggest doing a load analysis spreadsheet. There is one on my site, http://shannon.v8eaters.com/images/lancair/ get the spreadsheet, which you can use as a starting point/template. There is a 35A pad mount alternator available from GAMI in both a standard and a 90 degree mount. These are ~6# units. Also, Kelly Aerospace is developing a 70A unit that is pad mount. I imagine you are a little ways out from need the alternator, so I would suggest doing a load analysis, and then deciding what alternator to use. --- Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of PTACKABURY@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual Alt, Dual Battery Installation --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PTACKABURY@aol.com Thanks Bob: 20A backup alternator it is. Now how do I size the backup battery? paul ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:44 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual Alt, Dual Battery Installation --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 03:42 PM 2/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PTACKABURY@aol.com > > >Thanks Bob: 20A backup alternator it is. Now how do I size the backup >battery? paul I'd run a pair of 17 a.h. batteries. Every year, put a new battery in main alternator slot, move old main to aux battery slot, give old aux battery to grand-kids for their battery powered kiddie-car. This way, you always have a battery less than one year old, no battery more than two years old. This combination of 34 a.h. of demonstrable capacity combined with two engine driven power sources will provide you system integrity not available on the vast majority of aircraft flying in the world today. However, given the the way most light aircraft are used you could probably save a few dollars by running the batteries till they croak . . . with two alternators, your chances of getting caught with a dark panel are on the same order as having your propeller break off. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:27 PM PST US From: frequent flyer Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strobes --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: frequent flyer Someone recently posted a URL for a set of four Wheelen strobes and power supply for around $195.00. I looked in the archives and couldn't find it. Anyone know what it is? Jack in AZ do not archive. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:52 PM PST US From: Scot Stambaugh Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scot Stambaugh check out: http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/index.htm?359 At 03:42 PM 2/3/2003, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: frequent flyer > >Someone recently posted a URL for a set of four >Wheelen strobes and power supply for around $195.00. I >looked in the archives and couldn't find it. Anyone >know what it is? > >Jack in AZ > >do not archive. > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:01 PM PST US From: frequent flyer Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strobes --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: frequent flyer That was it Scott, any suggestions why I would want to spend $50 more for 90W as opposed to 60W? Jack do not archive ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:43 PM PST US From: "Werner Schneider" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: switch keyway question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" Hello Dan, if you drill the keyway switch (the 90 deg tab) first, there is no problem to drill the switch hole later, worked on my panel in about 10 cases. Werner (crimping and crimping and crimping.......) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch keyway question > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > Sorry if the answer to this is obvious... > > I'm still in the panel planning phase...haven't bought any switches or cut > any holes yet. > > When drilling your panel for toggle switches, is the keyway slot generally > ignored? I mean...maybe if you have the panel laser cut you could have the > keyway notch integrated into the cutout, but when drilling your own 15/32" > holes there doesn't seem to be a good way to do this. Does simply using a > lock washer of some sort prevent switch rotation? > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish) > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:07 PM PST US From: "Werner Schneider" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring headset jacks 2nd try --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" Hello Bob, as usual, exactly what I need to confirm my doing! Appreciate very much your help! Kind regards Werner > Here's a wirebook I did for a 430/340 combo > in the AGATE Bonanza a few years ago. > > http://216.55.140.222/temp/gns430.pdf > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:06 PM PST US From: Scot Stambaugh Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scot Stambaugh I bought the 90W because the various specs show that the strobes create more candle power. More candle power translates to more range in my novice mind. I'll check brightness against some of my spam can friends when I get it to the airport. Right now it really lights up the garage -- and I haven't seen the cat for some time either so there is a secondary benefit!!! scot At 04:04 PM 2/3/2003, frequent flyer wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: frequent flyer > >That was it Scott, any suggestions why I would want to >spend $50 more for 90W as opposed to 60W? > >Jack > >do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:11 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: cycling voltmeter and ammeter --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 06:56 AM 1/31/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N223RV@aol.com > > have about 16 hours on my RV-4 and have a question.=A0 My voltmeter and >ammeter cycle between 13-14.5 V on the voltmeter and between 5-10 amps every >1/2 second or so.=A0 The volt meter rapidly rises from 13 volts to 14.5 volts >and back almost like the voltage is rising, gets too high, cuts out, drops >below 13 volts, kicks back in, rises to 14.5 volts, cuts out......=A0 It just >rapidly cycles up and down.=A0 I have tried adjusting the voltage regulator >lower but does not seem to help the cycling..... > >I have a 35 amp Van's supplied alternator, a Van's supplied $35ish voltage >regulator, and an Aeroelectric overvoltage protection device.=A0 This issue >does not seem to cause any problems, but it does not seem right.=A0 > >Last night I turned on all my electrical accessories and it seemed to steady >out at about 13 V, but if I turn off just a couple of items, it goes right >back to cycling.=A0 I don't understand what is going on or if it is an issue, >but it just does not seem right. Does anyone have any ideas on what to check? This sounds like a classic voltage stability problem that can jump up when there is too much resistance in the wiring and components between a voltage regulator and where it ties to the bus. Just for grins, try making a temporary connection from the input of your regulator right to the b-lead of the alternator. Use a nice fat 18AWG or 16AWG wire. Disconnect the regulator's input lead that gets power from the bus and splice it to the test wire. Attach the other end of the wire to the alternator b-lead. Turn off ALL electronic gizmos. Start the engine and check the voltmeter. If the voltage looks okay, then try turning things on to vary the load while you watch the voltmeter. There's a good chance that the voltage will be steady. If this is true, then you need to "refurbish" all wiring/components between the bus and the regulator. This is a very common problem on some models of single engine Cessnas where there can be as many as 20 joints in the wiring between bus and regulator. As these age and increase in resistance, the system can become unstable in exactly the manner you have described. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:32 PM PST US From: "Brian & Debi Shannon" Subject: AeroElectric-List: DC-DC Converter or AC Inverter w/ Standby ADI???? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brian & Debi Shannon" Hi Bob/All, I'm looking for a 2" standby ADI as a backup to a dual-EFIS panel for my Glasair with a 14V electric system. Unfortunately it's pretty hard to come by the 2" standby ADIs at all, much less in a 14v version! I've found a few 28V versions and a few 115vac, 400hz, 3 phase versions. So my question is: Would it be better to use a DC-DC converter for the 28v version or an inverter for the AC version. Would there be any problem using the DC-DC converter found here at http://www.majorpower.com/dctodc/majorvtc_120.html#MajorVTC120 (MajorVTC120-12-24)? How about the inverter found here at http://freespace.virgin.net/andy.wright617/inverter.htm ?? The DC-DC converter appears to be much lighter than most inverters at 2.5 lbs but is a bit "pricey" at $279 versus about $160 for an inverter. Are there any issues that would be necessary to consider besides price & weight? Thanks for any input! I'm sure there will be many others curious about this issue as the EFIS units become more economically feasible and people start looking for electric back-up attitude indicators! Regards, Brian --- ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:25 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Right Angle BNC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DHPHKH@aol.com >> >>Gang, >> A few months ago somebody asked about crimp-on right angle female BNC >> connectors. Bob mentioned using a right angle adapter. Has anyone yet >> found a source for a decent crimp-on right angle? > > There are a number of sources . . . but none that > I know of that will install with the tool we sell. > AMP 225974-2 is a suitable part that sells for $22.00 > qty of 1. The hand tool that installs it is about $400.00 > > If it were my airplane, I'd install a cable male connector, > mate it with a right angle adapter and shrink a chunk > of double walled tubing over the interface to make it > permanent. . . . the po' boy's right angle connector. > > Bob . . > What about the Amphenol 31-334, available from Newark as PN 39F1443 for $28.92? It needs the Amphenol CTL-1 tool, which Mouser lists for about $50. Is this connector comptiable with the RCT-2 tool that B&C sells? I suddenly developed an interest in 90 deg coax connectors tonight, as I just discovered that my avionics installation leaves a bit less room for the RG-400 coax than I had hoped. So, I spent a little while flipping pages of an old Newark catalog and found: 90 deg BNC 50 ohm jack plug - part number 89F2919 - $18.11 - TYCO ELECTRONICS http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/newark/en_US/support/catalog/productDetail.jsp?id=89F2919 90 deg BNC crimp on jack plug (UG-306)- part number 39F071 - $17.39 - AMPHENOL http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/newark/en_US/support/catalog/productDetail.jsp?id=39F071 90 deg BNC crimp on jack plug (UG-306A)- part number 39F1071 - $12.62 - AMPHENOL http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/newark/en_US/support/catalog/productDetail.jsp?id=39F1071 Questions - should there be enough performance difference between the crimp on connector vs the jack plug to make this a consideration? I've got to connect to COM, NAV, G/S and GPS antennae. I've searched the web, but I can't find what the difference is between a UG-306 and a UG-306A connector (other than about $5). Can anyone shed any light on this? Thanks, -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:45 PM PST US From: Jerzy Krasinski Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LEDs --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski Steve Sampson wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" > >I am about to order some LEDs. Roughly how many mcd do I need for the >following: > >1. For a red flood for the cabin if all else fails so I can see in dim >light? >2. A white one to provide some light in the baggage compartement to >find something in the dark when the plane is parked? > >Thanks, Steve. > Steve, l000 mcd = 1cd is approximately as much light as from 1 regular candle. Jerzy > > > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:09 PM PST US From: "Tom Parks" Subject: AeroElectric-List: ABMM --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tom Parks" Bob! If I wire the switch per the terminal number sequence shown in Fig 11-11 of Aeroconnection, it works as advertised regarding closing the contactor in the bat and alt position. Figure 7 of the ABMM schematic shows a (2-10) switch terminals only. The (2-10) switch terminals shown in the notes section of Figure 7 indicates a S700 (2-10) switch, mounted keyway up. I'll use the terminal layout shown in Fig 11-11 for all (2-10) switches (obtained from B&C) for my aircraft wiring. regards, Tom Parks RV-7 N620CF