---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/04/03: 35 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:27 AM - Grounding strobe shield on RV's? (czechsix@juno.com) 2. 02:35 AM - Best Brand of 2.25 in Turn & Bank (James Foerster) 3. 04:44 AM - Re: Best Brand of 2.25 in Turn & Bank (Shannon Knoepflein) 4. 05:15 AM - Re: DC-DC Converter or AC Inverter w/ Standby ADI???? (Shannon Knoepflein) 5. 06:28 AM - Re: Best Brand of 2.25 in Turn & Bank (BobsV35B@aol.com) 6. 06:31 AM - Re: LEDs (Shaun Simpkins) 7. 07:49 AM - Re: DC-DC Converter or AC Inverter w/ (richard@riley.net) 8. 07:50 AM - Re: Strobes (richard@riley.net) 9. 08:00 AM - Deltran On Board Charger (DHPHKH@aol.com) 10. 08:11 AM - Re: Strobes (lm4@juno.com) 11. 08:17 AM - Re: Switches and AC (Wendell & Jean Durr) 12. 08:31 AM - OT: NAV Radio Squelch (Jon Finley) 13. 09:01 AM - Re: Switches and AC (Jon Finley) 14. 09:01 AM - Re: Deltran On Board Charger (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 09:11 AM - Re: OT: NAV Radio Squelch (Matt Prather) 16. 09:30 AM - Re: LEDs (Larry Bowen) 17. 09:33 AM - Re: Grounding strobe shield on RV's? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 18. 09:57 AM - Re: switch keyway question (HCRV6@aol.com) 19. 10:07 AM - Re: LEDs (Mark A. Wood) 20. 10:25 AM - Re: Switches and AC (Jim Jewell) 21. 10:32 AM - BNA seminar (Sam Buchanan) 22. 10:56 AM - Re: switch keyway question (Vincent Welch) 23. 11:58 AM - inexpensive low output alternator (Mark A. Wood) 24. 12:14 PM - Re: Switches and AC (Wendell & Jean Durr) 25. 03:19 PM - SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - BUS INSTABILITY (Francis, David CMDR) 26. 05:26 PM - Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - BUS INSTABILITY (Cy Galley) 27. 05:33 PM - Re: Deltran On Board Charger (DHPHKH@aol.com) 28. 06:37 PM - Wiring harness heads up (Kevin Horton) 29. 06:49 PM - Re: Wiring harness heads up (Benford2@aol.com) 30. 07:19 PM - Re: switch keyway question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 31. 07:40 PM - Re: Wiring harness heads up (Kevin Horton) 32. 08:36 PM - Re: Deltran On Board Charger (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 33. 08:37 PM - Gotta pack up again . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 34. 08:44 PM - Re: inexpensive low output alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 35. 08:50 PM - Re: Wiring harness heads up (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:08 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grounding strobe shield on RV's? From: czechsix@juno.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com Bob, I'm interested in getting the strobe wire shield grounding philosophy clarified....understand you recommend for composite aircraft to ground the shielding to the strobe head body, whereas on a metal aircraft to leave the shield at the strobe head end unconnected. Is that correct? Now, on the RV series, of course most of the wing is metal BUT the wingtip is fiberglass so the strobe body is not mounted directly on the metal airframe. So what do you recommend in this case? I think most guys with RV's leave the strobe head end of the shielding unconnected but a friend with an RV-8 using this scheme has some strobe noise coming through the headset. Have no idea if grounding the strobe ends of the shielding would make a difference hence the question (he has the power supply end grounded). Thanks, --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D firewall forward stuff... ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:24 AM PST US From: "James Foerster" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Best Brand of 2.25 in Turn & Bank --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" I dutifully read the List with search term of 'turn & bank'. After 99 postings, I still don't know what brand of Turn & Bank is best. Aircraft Spruce lists a 2.25in unit for $1187. It has a brushless motor, which should make it more reliable. Another 2.25 in unit is unlighted, and goes for $$810: presumably with a brush motor. The 3.2 in units run less at $662. Anyone know if the smaller units are less reliable? Or more reliable due to newer manufacture? I need to buy one soon, and old Bob convinced me that I'd rather had the T&B instead of the TC. My panel is tight, and the smaller unit would be preferable--and more expensive. Jim Foerster J400 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:43 AM PST US From: "Shannon Knoepflein" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Best Brand of 2.25 in Turn & Bank --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" The backup unit that Lancair Avionics is putting in my panel is a Mid-Continent 2.25" unit, with a part number of 5550-8340-N5L. Hope that helps, not sure of price, as it is all bunched in with other flight instruments. --- Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Foerster Subject: AeroElectric-List: Best Brand of 2.25 in Turn & Bank --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" I dutifully read the List with search term of 'turn & bank'. After 99 postings, I still don't know what brand of Turn & Bank is best. Aircraft Spruce lists a 2.25in unit for $1187. It has a brushless motor, which should make it more reliable. Another 2.25 in unit is unlighted, and goes for $$810: presumably with a brush motor. The 3.2 in units run less at $662. Anyone know if the smaller units are less reliable? Or more reliable due to newer manufacture? I need to buy one soon, and old Bob convinced me that I'd rather had the T&B instead of the TC. My panel is tight, and the smaller unit would be preferable--and more expensive. Jim Foerster J400 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:18 AM PST US From: "Shannon Knoepflein" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: DC-DC Converter or AC Inverter w/ Standby ADI???? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" If by ADI you mean a backup attitude instrument, I would suggest a refurbished 2" USAF JET Attitude Gyro unit, 501-1131-01. It is 14V, and under $2000 I believe. From the people I've talked to that have it, it performs flawlessly. If that's not what you meant by ADI, ignore. --- Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian & Debi Shannon Subject: AeroElectric-List: DC-DC Converter or AC Inverter w/ Standby ADI???? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brian & Debi Shannon" Hi Bob/All, I'm looking for a 2" standby ADI as a backup to a dual-EFIS panel for my Glasair with a 14V electric system. Unfortunately it's pretty hard to come by the 2" standby ADIs at all, much less in a 14v version! I've found a few 28V versions and a few 115vac, 400hz, 3 phase versions. So my question is: Would it be better to use a DC-DC converter for the 28v version or an inverter for the AC version. Would there be any problem using the DC-DC converter found here at http://www.majorpower.com/dctodc/majorvtc_120.html#MajorVTC120 (MajorVTC120-12-24)? How about the inverter found here at http://freespace.virgin.net/andy.wright617/inverter.htm ?? The DC-DC converter appears to be much lighter than most inverters at 2.5 lbs but is a bit "pricey" at $279 versus about $160 for an inverter. Are there any issues that would be necessary to consider besides price & weight? Thanks for any input! I'm sure there will be many others curious about this issue as the EFIS units become more economically feasible and people start looking for electric back-up attitude indicators! Regards, Brian --- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:58 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Best Brand of 2.25 in Turn & Bank --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 2/4/03 4:35:54 AM Central Standard Time, jmfpublic@attbi.com writes: > old Bob convinced me > that I'd rather had the T&B instead of the TC. My panel is tight, and the > smaller unit would be preferable--and more expensive. > Good Morning Jim, Welcome to the ranks of believers! Unfortunately, my instrument guru tells me that none of the currently available crop of 2.25 rate instruments, TC or T&B, are much good. They both have comparably high failure rates. My first one lasted about 500 hours and the second one about two thousand hours. I could tell the first one was going bad by the sound it made. The second one sounded nice and quiet right up to the day it died. I intend to take it to my guru to see if we can determine the failure point, but haven't gotten around to doing so as yet. I decided to go back to the full size T&B because I think it helps force me to keep it in my normal scan. After Itzahk Jacoby was killed at Newark, I tried to analyze my technique and realized that I had not been checking the rate instrument as much as I thought I had. If you are not familiar with Itzahk's accident findings, it appears that both his HSI and his TC had failed. If it is a choice between a 2.25 TC or a 2.25 T&B, I would still opt for the T&B, but none of the smaller instruments seem to be as reliable as the ancient sized ones. If you must stick to the little bitty ones, listen to several, if you can, and pick the one that sounds the smoothest. Sure wish Jim Younkin was developing his stuff for certificated machines. It would be nice to be able to get something that was designed after World War One! Happy Skies, Old Bob ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:45 AM PST US From: "Shaun Simpkins" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LEDs --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shaun Simpkins" The illuminating power of a light source depends not only on the overall light output but on the solid angle over which it radiates its light. Since an LED is a diffuse light source, it's tricky to constrain the light pattern with an external reflector. There are so many LED fixtures now out on the market that I would go there first before rolling my own. I'd suggest checking into http://www.ledmuseumm.org one of the many LED enthusiast websites, for guidance, or http://www.theledlight.com for LED flashlights, replacement bulbs, fixtures, and raw LEDs. One builder I know was successful in replacing the lamp in the ACS Mini Eyeball Cockpit Light (11-07800) with a high-intensity red LED for use as a cockpit flood. Only works for planes with roofs. Another possibility is to use one of the many LED headlamp fixtures available for campers. These are usually 2-3 bulb affairs that run on tiny batteries but throw a lot of light for around $20. Some have switchable colors. Suitable gooseneck LED fixtures are available, as are LED "brick" fixtures, at automotive customization shops. Shaun > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" > > > >I am about to order some LEDs. Roughly how many mcd do I need for the > >following: > > > >1. For a red flood for the cabin if all else fails so I can see in dim > >light? > >2. A white one to provide some light in the baggage compartement to > >find something in the dark when the plane is parked? > > > >Thanks, Steve. > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:04 AM PST US From: richard@riley.net Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DC-DC Converter or AC Inverter w/ Standby ADI???? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net Brian, I'm using a single panel Bluemountain EFIS, and bought a 115 v 400 hz 3 ph AI. I'm powering it with one of Andy Wright's inverters - haven't installed it yet, so I can't say anything good or bad, but it works nicely on the bench. Can I ask where you found the 28V, and how much they run? At 08:12 PM 2/3/03 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brian & Debi Shannon" > > >Hi Bob/All, > > I'm looking for a 2" standby ADI as a backup to a dual-EFIS panel for my >Glasair with a 14V electric system. Unfortunately it's pretty hard to come >by the 2" standby ADIs at all, much less in a 14v version! I've found a few >28V versions and a few 115vac, 400hz, 3 phase versions. So my question is: >Would it be better to use a DC-DC converter for the 28v version or an >inverter for the AC version. Would there be any problem using the DC-DC >converter found here at >http://www.majorpower.com/dctodc/majorvtc_120.html#MajorVTC120 >(MajorVTC120-12-24)? How about the inverter found here at >http://freespace.virgin.net/andy.wright617/inverter.htm ?? The DC-DC >converter appears to be much lighter than most inverters at 2.5 lbs but is a >bit "pricey" at $279 versus about $160 for an inverter. Are there any >issues that would be necessary to consider besides price & weight? > >Thanks for any input! I'm sure there will be many others curious about this >issue as the EFIS units become more economically feasible and people start >looking for electric back-up attitude indicators! > >Regards, > Brian >--- > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:08 AM PST US From: richard@riley.net Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net At 04:04 PM 2/3/03 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: frequent flyer > >That was it Scott, any suggestions why I would want to >spend $50 more for 90W as opposed to 60W? If your strobe tubes will take the extra power (like, they aren't the Aeroflash wingtip strobes) the 90 w (45 w per side, if you're only running 2) is that much brighter. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:00:12 AM PST US From: DHPHKH@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Deltran On Board Charger --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DHPHKH@aol.com Gang, Ran across something interesting. Deltran has 21 oz automatic battery charger designed for on-board installation, with software tailored for RG batteries. If you have battery dependent ignitions, you could simply plug the airplane into an AC outlet anywhere, and always depart for the next flight with fully charged batteries. http://www.batterytender.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=46 Dan Horton ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes From: lm4@juno.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: lm4@juno.com Jack, I don't know if this answers your question or not. I presume your talking about Strobes & More equipment. The 90 watt power supply has two output sockets. If you wire three strobes to one socket you will get 90 watts charge to three lights, all at once. 30 watts / strobe. If you wire two strobes to one socket and a third to another socket you will get 90 watts to the latter and 90 watts to the two. 45 watts / strobe. The 90 watt unit has instructions that allow you to operate the system at high or low power. Add another switch and you can operate them, for example, at double flash or quintuple flash. E.G. high power, quintuple flash near controlled fields daytime--double flash, low power on the ramp. HTH Larry Mac Donald Rochester N.Y. do not archive On Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:04:44 -0800 (PST) frequent flyer writes: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: frequent flyer > > > That was it Scott, any suggestions why I would want to > spend $50 more for 90W as opposed to 60W? > > Jack > > do not archive > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:20 AM PST US From: "Wendell & Jean Durr" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wendell & Jean Durr" go to the list archives how does one do that? (Please forgive my ignorance) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:13 AM PST US From: "Jon Finley" Subject: AeroElectric-List: OT: NAV Radio Squelch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jon Finley" Hi all, This is a completely off topic question - I apologize. The nav volume on my NAV/COM (King KX-155) will not "disengage". Normally pulling the nav volume knob out turn it "on" and then you turn the knob to increase/decrease the volume. When my nav volume knob is "in" and set to minimum volume I can still hear the nav signal. Anyone know if this is a simple adjustment that I can make, something that a radio shop can fix, or worse??? Thanks! Jon Finley N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 440 Hrs. TT - 0 Hrs Engine Apple Valley, Minnesota http://www.FinleyWeb.net/default.asp?id=96 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:42 AM PST US From: "Jon Finley" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jon Finley" Look down about this message about 50 lines to where it says either "Search Engine:" or "Archives:". These addresses are included at the end of EVERY message coming out of this list server. The search engine allows you to search by keyword. The archives are all message by subject (alphabetic), I believe). Jon Do not archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Wendell & Jean Durr > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:17 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wendell & Jean Durr" > --> > > go to the list archives > > how does one do that? (Please forgive my ignorance) > > > ========== > Matronics Forums. > ========== > List members. > ========== > ========== > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:42 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Deltran On Board Charger --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:59 AM 2/4/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DHPHKH@aol.com > >Gang, > Ran across something interesting. Deltran has 21 oz automatic battery >charger designed for on-board installation, with software tailored for RG >batteries. If you have battery dependent ignitions, you could simply plug >the airplane into an AC outlet anywhere, and always depart for the next >flight with fully charged batteries. > >http://www.batterytender.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=46 If you store your airplane for extended periods of time (many months), some type of smart, float charger may be beneficial. RG battery self discharge rates are on the order of 2-3% per MONTH. Further, most folks who want the ultimate in battery performance will have a new battery every year. I'll suggest that time and expense to incorporate such a device in a modern airplane will have next to zero return on investment. My father-in-law has a small fork lift in his business that got parked for 90 days and the FLOODED battery ran down and destroyed itself. It was one of those long, skinny, odd-ball 3EE series batteries that cost about $200 each. He put a new battery in and the fork lift is up and running. Given that he is trying to spin this business down, the new battery is at risk of self-destruction too . . . I'm building a 13.0 volt float charger to clip onto the parked fork lift to keep this from happening again. Now, if I could only figure out a way to get an RG battery fitted to the machine . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:04 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT: NAV Radio Squelch From: "Matt Prather" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" Did this just happen, or has it been like this since installed? I wonder if there are multiple audio outputs from the radio, one of which might be "line-level" (to go to an audio panel) and therefore not volume controlled. Totally speculating. Regards, Matt- do not archive > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jon Finley" > > > Hi all, > > This is a completely off topic question - I apologize. > > The nav volume on my NAV/COM (King KX-155) will not "disengage". > Normally pulling the nav volume knob out turn it "on" and then you turn > the knob to increase/decrease the volume. When my nav volume knob is > "in" and set to minimum volume I can still hear the nav signal. Anyone > know if this is a simple adjustment that I can make, something that a > radio shop can fix, or worse??? > > Thanks! > > Jon Finley > N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 440 Hrs. TT - 0 Hrs Engine > Apple Valley, Minnesota > http://www.FinleyWeb.net/default.asp?id=96 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LEDs From: "Larry Bowen" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" Huh? Roofs? -- Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com 2003: The Year of Flight! Shaun Simpkins said: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shaun Simpkins" > > [snip] > One builder I know was successful in replacing the lamp in the ACS Mini > Eyeball Cockpit Light > (11-07800) with a high-intensity red LED for use as a cockpit flood. > Only works for planes with > roofs. [snip] ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:32 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grounding strobe shield on RV's? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 03:24 AM 2/4/2003 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com > >Bob, > >I'm interested in getting the strobe wire shield grounding philosophy >clarified....understand you recommend for composite aircraft to ground >the shielding to the strobe head body, whereas on a metal aircraft to >leave the shield at the strobe head end unconnected. Is that correct? Yes. >Now, on the RV series, of course most of the wing is metal BUT the >wingtip is fiberglass so the strobe body is not mounted directly on the >metal airframe. So what do you recommend in this case? Ground the base of the strobe head to the shield . . . >I think most guys with RV's leave the strobe head end of the shielding >unconnected but a friend with an RV-8 using this scheme has some strobe >noise coming through the headset. Have no idea if grounding the strobe >ends of the shielding would make a difference hence the question (he has >the power supply end grounded). Depending on what conditions he is hearing the strobe noise, grounding the strobe head via shield on wiring may help. Need more details on kind of noise and conditions under which it happens. See chapter on noise . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:37 AM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: switch keyway question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com In a message dated 2/3/03 12:06:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, dan@rvproject.com writes: << When drilling your panel for toggle switches, is the keyway slot generally ignored? I mean...maybe if you have the panel laser cut you could have the keyway notch integrated into the cutout, but when drilling your own 15/32" holes there doesn't seem to be a good way to do this. Does simply using a lock washer of some sort prevent switch rotation? >> Most quality toggle switches, at least the ones that Bob supplies through B&C, come with an anti-rotation washer that requires a second small hole to engage the tang on the washer. They work great. Do not archive Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, starting firewall forward ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:56 AM PST US From: "Mark A. Wood" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LEDs --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood" You need something above your head (a roof) to put the lamp on. >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" > >Huh? Roofs? > >-- >Larry Bowen >Larry@BowenAero.com >http://BowenAero.com >2003: The Year of Flight! > >Shaun Simpkins said: >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shaun Simpkins" >> >> >[snip] >> One builder I know was successful in replacing the lamp in the ACS Mini >> Eyeball Cockpit Light >> (11-07800) with a high-intensity red LED for use as a cockpit flood. >> Only works for planes with >> roofs. >[snip] > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:05 AM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Hi Wendell, Try the following: Go to http://www.matronics.com/ the source of some great products and all the various lists. go to the bottom of the page and click on http://www.matronics.com/ and follow instructions. Go to http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html and enter various words and word combinations and see what you find. Sometimes it takes a bit of patience to get the info you want. Other times, depending on subject, no amount of trying will seem to work. Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendell & Jean Durr" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wendell & Jean Durr" > > go to the list archives > > how does one do that? (Please forgive my ignorance) > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:02 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: AeroElectric-List: BNA seminar --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Bob, I got very positive reviews as expected from the Tennessee Valley RV Builders Group members who attended the Nashville seminar this past weekend. I hope the TVRVBG bunch didn't embarrass the rest of the class what with their drooling and other unsociable behavior. ;-) Any members of this list who have an opportunity to attend one of 'Lectric Bob's seminars really need to consider enrollment. He may be too modest to say so, but it will be some of the most valuable time and dollars you can spend while educating yourself about the wiring architecture on our custom-built planes. Sam Buchanan (RV-6) "The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:11 AM PST US From: "Vincent Welch" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: switch keyway question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Vincent Welch" I have several toggle switches that came without anti-rotation washers. Does anyone know where the washers can be purchased seperately? Vince Welch N327W >From: HCRV6@aol.com >Reply-To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: switch keyway question >Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:56:42 EST > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com > >In a message dated 2/3/03 12:06:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, >dan@rvproject.com writes: > ><< When drilling your panel for toggle switches, is the keyway slot >generally > ignored? I mean...maybe if you have the panel laser cut you could have >the > keyway notch integrated into the cutout, but when drilling your own >15/32" > holes there doesn't seem to be a good way to do this. Does simply using >a > lock washer of some sort prevent switch rotation? > >> >Most quality toggle switches, at least the ones that Bob supplies through >B&C, come with an anti-rotation washer that requires a second small hole to >engage the tang on the washer. They work great. > >Do not archive > >Harry Crosby >Pleasanton, California >RV-6, starting firewall forward > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:43 AM PST US From: "Mark A. Wood" Subject: AeroElectric-List: inexpensive low output alternator --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood" Bob I am building a light VFR aircraft (Zenith 601) and I am looking for an inexpensive low output alternator to connect to my Continental O-200. I have heard people talk about the alternator from a John Deer lawn tractor and was looking for any input on using this. I have used the drive gear from an old generator which I cut down and I plan to put a pulley on the shaft to drive the alternator. 1 Is using this alternator a reasonable way to go? (in your opinion or feedback from anyone on the list is welcome.) 2. This is a permanent magnet type alternator, do you know how the voltage is regulated, and do I need an external regulator? 3. Do you know what RPM range the alternator would need to turn? I can adjust this by the ratio of the pulleys. Thanks Mark Wood ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:09 PM PST US From: "Wendell & Jean Durr" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wendell & Jean Durr" Thanx. My learning curve is almost vertical ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:19:58 PM PST US From: "Francis, David CMDR" Subject: AeroElectric-List: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - BUS INSTABILITY --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR" Bob, is this another example of system instability that just needs a cleanup of bus to voltage regulator, or is it more: Aircraft is an elderly Pawnee, amps are stable at all times. There are two voltage cycles, one imposed on the other. Normally the voltage needle oscillates over 0.5 volt about 3-5 times per second. If I turn on the strobe, the voltage drops 1.5 volts in time with firing of the strobe, additonal to the underlying 0.5 cycle. The radios are noisy all the time. Should this be fixed, if so how? Regards, David Francis Email: David.Francis@defence.gov.au ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:11 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - BUS INSTABILITY --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Do you have the Cessna Flashing Beacon? Our Skyhawk did the same thing until we reversed the connections for the large resistor and the light. Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club Newsletter Editor & EAA TC www.bellanca-championclub.com We support Aeroncas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francis, David CMDR" Subject: AeroElectric-List: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - BUS INSTABILITY > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR" > > > Bob, is this another example of system instability that just needs a cleanup > of bus to voltage regulator, or is it more: > > Aircraft is an elderly Pawnee, amps are stable at all times. There are two > voltage cycles, one imposed on the other. > > Normally the voltage needle oscillates over 0.5 volt about 3-5 times per > second. If I turn on the strobe, the voltage drops 1.5 volts in time with > firing of the strobe, additonal to the underlying 0.5 cycle. The radios are > noisy all the time. Should this be fixed, if so how? > > Regards, David Francis > > Email: David.Francis@defence.gov.au > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:48 PM PST US From: DHPHKH@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Deltran On Board Charger --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DHPHKH@aol.com Bob writes: <> You may be right, but it's still fun to explore the "why". Subject is an RV8A with dual Lightspeeds. I've declined to install an APU plug, as it seems kinda dumb to help crank and launch a battery dependent airplane with low batteries. At 21 oz and less than $100, the charger doesn't weigh much more than an APU plug, or cost much more either. You always have it with you. You know it has the right charge cycle and rates, unlike the relic in the back of the hanger. The little green light tells you when you've reached full charge, and it won't overcharge. It would allow recharging without removing the rear of the RV baggage compartment. Return on investment? Fail an alternator on the outbound trip, and after a full recharge you could fly your battery ignition airplane some reasonable distance back to home base. I'll bet you would save more than $100 compared to repairs in a foreign port No, I haven't thought it all through yet, but it is an interesting idea. Dan ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:14 PM PST US aeroelectric-list@matronics.com From: Kevin Horton Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring harness heads up --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton I've just had a bad wiring harness experience that I want to share with you, as it highlights a potential safety problem. I bought my avionics from a popular avionics vendor, and I had him make up the wiring harness. Well, this wiring harness has been a nightmare. Two pins were swapped on the transponder, which meant the transponder and altitude encode wouldn't talk to each other. I swapped the pins and everything is OK there now. On the intercom, the PTT and mic wires were swapped between the Com 1 and Com 2 spots. If I had selected Com 1 to transmit, I would have been transmitting on Com 2, but listening on Com 1. OK, I can fix that. I found it on the bench when I decided to check every wire with an ohmmeter. It would have been a royal PITA to find and fix if I hadn't found the problem until I was doing post-installation functional checks. Well tonight I found the problem that has stopped me in my tracks. The Com 1 power line is supposed to get a 10a fuse, but the wire is only 20 AWG. It needs to be 18 AWG if it is going to get a 10a fuse. If I had simply followed the notes the vendor sent me, and I ever had a short, I could have a smoking wire before the fuse blew. If I use a 7a fuse to match the wire I could be looking at nuisance fuse blowing. So, please pay close attention to the details of any vendor supplied wiring harness. Don't simply assume that it must be OK just because it comes from a reputable vendor. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:40 PM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring harness heads up --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 2/4/2003 7:37:58 PM Mountain Standard Time, khorto1537@rogers.com writes: > > I've just had a bad wiring harness experience that I want to share > with you, as it highlights a potential safety problem. > > I bought my avionics from a popular avionics vendor, and I had him > make up the wiring harness. Well, this wiring harness has been a > nightmare. Two pins were swapped on the transponder, which meant the > transponder and altitude encode wouldn't talk to each other. I > swapped the pins and everything is OK there now. On the intercom, > the PTT and mic wires were swapped between the Com 1 and Com 2 spots. > If I had selected Com 1 to transmit, I would have been transmitting > on Com 2, but listening on Com 1. OK, I can fix that. I found it on > the bench when I decided to check every wire with an ohmmeter. It > would have been a royal PITA to find and fix if I hadn't found the > problem until I was doing post-installation functional checks. > > Well tonight I found the problem that has stopped me in my tracks. > The Com 1 power line is supposed to get a 10a fuse, but the wire is > only 20 AWG. It needs to be 18 AWG if it is going to get a 10a fuse. > If I had simply followed the notes the vendor sent me, and I ever had > a short, I could have a smoking wire before the fuse blew. If I use > a 7a fuse to match the wire I could be looking at nuisance fuse > blowing. > > So, please pay close attention to the details of any vendor supplied > wiring harness. Don't simply assume that it must be OK just because > it comes from a reputable vendor. > -- > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ > Do tell all of us the name of this vendor so we can steer real clear of them. I just finished my panel and it was ALOT of work. I am sure everything is connected correctly. You were smart by checking your harness while it was still on the bench. You can probably run another 18 ga wire on the outside of your bundle and disable the smaller wire. I would bet a 7 amp fuse will work without blowing out though. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:06 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: switch keyway question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 01:55 PM 2/4/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Vincent Welch" > > >I have several toggle switches that came without anti-rotation washers. >Does anyone know where the washers can be purchased seperately? > >Vince Welch >N327W Send me your address and how many you need . . . I'll mail them to you. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:13 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring harness heads up --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com > >In a message dated 2/4/2003 7:37:58 PM Mountain Standard Time, >khorto1537@rogers.com writes: > > >Do tell all of us the name of this vendor so we can steer real clear of them. >I just finished my panel and it was ALOT of work. I am sure everything is >connected correctly. You were smart by checking your harness while it was >still on the bench. You can probably run another 18 ga wire on the outside of >your bundle and disable the smaller wire. I would bet a 7 amp fuse will work >without blowing out though. > I'd rather not name names. This vendor has lots of satisfied customers, and I have never heard anyone else complain about a problem. Any vendor can screw up a wiring harness. So no matter who you buy from you should give the harness a good check out on the bench. That was really the point of my message, rather than to skewer a vendor whose employee had a bad day. Kevin ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:55 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Deltran On Board Charger --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:32 PM 2/4/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DHPHKH@aol.com > >Bob writes: ><modern airplane will have next to zero return on investment.>> > > You may be right, but it's still fun to explore the "why". > > Subject is an RV8A with dual Lightspeeds. I've declined to install an > APU plug, as it seems kinda dumb to help crank and launch a battery > dependent airplane with low batteries. > > At 21 oz and less than $100, the charger doesn't weigh much more than > an APU plug, or cost much more either. You always have it with you. You > know it has the right charge cycle and rates, unlike the relic in the > back of the hanger. The little green light tells you when you've reached > full charge, and it won't overcharge. It would allow recharging without > removing the rear of the RV baggage compartment. > > Return on investment? Fail an alternator on the outbound trip, and > after a full recharge you could fly your battery ignition airplane some > reasonable distance back to home base. I'll bet you would save more than > $100 compared to repairs in a foreign port > > No, I haven't thought it all through yet, but it is an interesting idea. If you were flying a Ford gear driven alternator on a C-172 fitted with a flooded battery that was 3-4 years old, then I would agree, you need everything going for you that you can get. That same $100 will by two years worth of batteries for a yearly change-out cycle that would (if the airplane is flown every two months or so) guarantee a level of reliability that all the chargers in the world cannot bestow on a Cessna. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:35 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Gotta pack up again . . . --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" RAC is sending me out to Whippany, NJ for the rest of the week. See you all Saturday morning. . . Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | The man who does not read good books has no advantage | | over the man who cannot read them. | | - Mark Twain | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:53 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: inexpensive low output alternator --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 02:57 PM 2/4/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood" > >Bob >I am building a light VFR aircraft (Zenith 601) and I am looking for >an inexpensive low output alternator to connect to my Continental >O-200. I have heard people talk about the alternator from a John Deer >lawn tractor and was looking for any input on using this. > >I have used the drive gear from an old generator which I cut down and >I plan to put a pulley on the shaft to drive the alternator. > >1 Is using this alternator a reasonable way to go? (in your opinion >or feedback from anyone on the list is welcome.) > >2. This is a permanent magnet type alternator, do you know how the >voltage is regulated, and do I need an external regulator? > >3. Do you know what RPM range the alternator would need to turn? I >can adjust this by the ratio of the pulleys. If you're proposing a belt-drive adapter, then the Nipon-Denso 40A machine would be my choice (B&C L-40). Unless you are experienced at modifying modern alternator to accept external regulators, consider using the built in regulator with external OV protection as shown in http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/crowbar.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:59 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring harness heads up --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:34 PM 2/4/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > >I've just had a bad wiring harness experience that I want to share >with you, as it highlights a potential safety problem. > >I bought my avionics from a popular avionics vendor, and I had him >make up the wiring harness. Well, this wiring harness has been a >nightmare. Two pins were swapped on the transponder, which meant the >transponder and altitude encode wouldn't talk to each other. I >swapped the pins and everything is OK there now. On the intercom, >the PTT and mic wires were swapped between the Com 1 and Com 2 spots. >If I had selected Com 1 to transmit, I would have been transmitting >on Com 2, but listening on Com 1. OK, I can fix that. I found it on >the bench when I decided to check every wire with an ohmmeter. It >would have been a royal PITA to find and fix if I hadn't found the >problem until I was doing post-installation functional checks. > >Well tonight I found the problem that has stopped me in my tracks. >The Com 1 power line is supposed to get a 10a fuse, but the wire is >only 20 AWG. It needs to be 18 AWG if it is going to get a 10a fuse. >If I had simply followed the notes the vendor sent me, and I ever had >a short, I could have a smoking wire before the fuse blew. If I use >a 7a fuse to match the wire I could be looking at nuisance fuse >blowing. An 20AWG wire would rise 10 degrees C at 7A continuous . . which never happens in a transceiver. The 10A protection recommended is a bit hefty, a 7A fuse (80+ watts into the radio during transmit) would probably be fine too. There was no danger imposed by running a 10A fuse in this case, it just means that the wire gets a bit hotter before the fuse opens but in no way represents a threat to the wire bundle. >So, please pay close attention to the details of any vendor supplied >wiring harness. Don't simply assume that it must be OK just because >it comes from a reputable vendor. Sounds like a case of multiple dyslexic pin insertions. Pretty easy to do. Disappointing tho that they didn't do their own pin-to-pin ringout of the harness. Bob . . .