Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:05 AM - Re: Facet Electric fuel pump ? (Shannon Knoepflein)
2. 05:41 AM - Re: Wiring harness follow up (Avionics Systems)
3. 07:40 AM - Re: EXPBUS (CBFLESHREN@aol.com)
4. 08:05 AM - Re: Best Brand of 2.25 in Turn & Bank (Cliff Shaw)
5. 08:54 AM - EXPBUS (Huw & Rachel)
6. 09:08 AM - Re: EXPBUS (James E. Clark)
7. 09:31 AM - Re: EXPBUS (James E. Clark)
8. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: EXPBUS (William Yamokoski)
9. 09:59 AM - EXPBUS (brucem@olypen.com)
10. 10:12 AM - Re: Facet Electric fuel pump ? (czechsix@juno.com)
11. 12:00 PM - CarlingTech PWM Dimmer (long) (Stucklen, Frederic IFC)
12. 03:16 PM - Re: CarlingTech PWM Dimmer (long) (John Schroeder)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Facet Electric fuel pump ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann@kyol.net>
If it's the same little 14V facet pump I'm using, it draws .98 amps
while pumping, .76 when empty. Hope that helps.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BillRVSIX@aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Facet Electric fuel pump ?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BillRVSIX@aol.com
Hello dose any have any idea how many amps the Facet fuel pump from vans
draws. Working on bus load analysis and need to figure out circuit
breaker
size. Thanks
Bill Higgins
Pembroke Ma.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring harness follow up |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Avionics Systems" <hk53@his.com>
Just a little additional info here. The longer pins that work with the 18 gauge
wire could potentially short against each other, but nothing would happen since
it would be ground touching ground or power touching power. All the other
pins are inside the connector and could not be affected. Also Garmin supplies
insulating tubing with each GNS-430 kit to insulate those longer pins from touching
each other. We use the longer pins and have never had a problem.
David Buckwalter
Avionics Systems, LLC.
Message 3
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: CBFLESHREN@aol.com
In a message dated 2/5/2003 4:20:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com writes:
> Still, I'm leaning towards the EXPBUS - as it must be the simplest and most
> well arranged system for the homebuilder. So - to all who has been there,
> done that: what's your experience/advice??
>
> Hans
>
Hans, I don't know how much you personally respect AeroElectric Bob but
see <A HREF"http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusad.html">http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusad.html
for his in depth
critical review of the EXPBUS.=A0=A0=A0
=A0=A0=A0 And=A0 <A HREF"http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusthd.html">http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusthd.html
for more follow
thru discussions to this review online.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
Chris
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Best Brand of 2.25 in Turn & Bank |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@attbi.com>
Shannon
I found the list price of your TnB off there web page. $1776.00 I about
fell off my chare. It is made by a instrument company , General Design, but
I can't make Google find it. It does find a list of aviation company with
General Design listed, so I am sure they are for real. Just NO web sight.
( just a little follow-up)
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann@kyol.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Best Brand of 2.25 in Turn & Bank
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein"
<kycshann@kyol.net>
>
> The backup unit that Lancair Avionics is putting in my panel is a
> Mid-Continent 2.25" unit, with a part number of 5550-8340-N5L. Hope
> that helps, not sure of price, as it is all bunched in with other flight
> instruments.
>
> ---
> Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net
>
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Huw & Rachel" <huwrachel@earthlink.net>
Hans wrote on 02/05/03 >>>>
>>I'll soon start on the electric system for my Europa. I'm considering the
EXPBUS
>>from Control Vision to be the "heart" of my system. One of the local
veterans
>>in the field adviced against it however (he has no personal experience
with
>>the EXPBUS though). He said that it looked vulnerable - and, if something
would
>>go wrong with it, it would take a lot of work to trouble-shoot - and most
likely
>>have it sent across the pond for repairs.... With of course a longtime
>>grounding of the A/C as a result.
Hans
There is a lot of discussion in the archives of this list about the EXPBUS,
but I doubt that anyone has enough airtime with the device to give you
advice. I am planning to install an Eggenfellner Subaru in my Glastar and
the recommended electrical system for that installation is based around the
EXPBUS. This is mainly because it supports automatic switching between
batteries in a dual battery setup. I strongly disagree with the choice of
the EXPBUS not on grounds of its technical capabilities, because I don't
have the knowledge to argue, but on its repairability. I keep hoping that
Bob or someone else will produce a wiring diagram that we can pick up and
use for building. That diagram would of course be based on standard
components available from a number of sources.
Meanwhile I read Bob's book and watch here in the hope that I can find an
alternate way forward.
from
Huw Williams
huwrachel@earthlink.net
Message 6
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <jclark@conterra.com>
There has been a lot of dialog on this list about the unit.
First some upfront comments.
1. I am using (planning to use) both this approach (EXPBUS) in a plane and
Bob's dual/dual approach in another.
2. I like BOTH approaches. For me they solve different problems.
3. I am *happy* with the EXPBUS installation. So far there have been no
problems with it (~75hrs)
I installed one in the RV6 my partner and I are currently flying and plan a
different route for another RV I have under construction. I think both
approaches are just fine, you need to decide what is important to you.
Some of *my* logic follows. It may not apply to anyone else's way of
thinking (for either case).
RV with EXPBUS
1. Wanted a contained system that allowed the "connections to be made" to a
reserved space already.
2. Works well for straightforward systems
3. If anything goes wrong, the unit can be replaced (Some may think the
plane has to be down if *anything* fails but I didn't see it that way. If it
was a major failure, then I would try to get them to send me a loaner while
it was being repaired.
RV without EXPBUS
1. I plan for a more "complex" (please note the quotes) system. Basically
Bob's Z14 I think. All electric. Dual alternator. Dual battery. I think the
Eggenfellner (sp?) Subaru systems use the EXPBUS for this but I will be
going the Aeroelectric way.
2. Z14 handles the issues I have for the second RV that I did not have for
the first.
There is a lot of solid logic and thinking behind the designs that Bob has
made available to us over the years. It is also a matter of what you really
feel comfortable working with and then flying behind.
On the other hand some people feel more comfortable with a "box" they feel
is straightforward, pre-tested and built by someone else. To each his own.
I have seen many planes with the EXPBUS but you don't hear that much about
it hear because we (me included) on this list tend to more so disciples of
the "Aeroelectric Way" (for good reason).
All I am saying is that there is room for both approaches and if you want to
dicuss a **specific** question about your potential installation, feel free
to contact me off list.
James
p.s. Another couple of comments I forgot to add.
1. You will need to take a minute and walk through the EXPBUS design
philosophy just like you need to do with Bob's.
2. Control Vision would do themselves and us all a big favor if they
included a few more "application notes" ... a kinda "here's how you would
hook it up for A, here's how for B and here's how for C. The system has a
lot more flexibility than meets the eye, but you have tostudy it to realize
that.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 4:20 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: EXPBUS
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
>
> Hi all.
>
> I'll soon start on the electric system for my Europa. I'm
> considering the EXPBUS from Control Vision to be the "heart" of
> my system. One of the local veterans in the field adviced against
> it however (he has no personal experience with the EXPBUS
> though). He said that it looked vulnerable - and, if something
> would go wrong with it, it would take a lot of work to
> trouble-shoot - and most likely have it sent across the pond for
> repairs.... With of course a longtime grounding of the A/C as a result.
>
> Still, I'm leaning towards the EXPBUS - as it must be the
> simplest and most well arranged system for the homebuilder. So -
> to all who has been there, done that: what's your experience/advice??
>
> Hans
>
>
Message 7
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <jclark@conterra.com>
Huw raises an important point ... repairability.
And personally I think this might be the most relevant point.
What one needs to do though is a failure mode analysis ... what is likely to
fail when and how and what will its impact be on my flight. (We have all
heard that here before).
Basic things that could fail ..
Mechanical Switches
"Connections"
"Polyfuse Switch" (name??)
Capacitors, diodes in circuit
Mechanical Switches ...
<stuff deleted about switch reliability as I was guessing numbers>
Changing the switch is straightforward.
Also, it is possible to use the SAME switches that you would otherwise use
if that was a concern.
Connections ...
The same Fast-on (name??) tabs used here.
Polyfuse Switch ...
If one of these fails, you have the ability (on some later models I believe)
to insert a standard fuse and simply loose the "reset" capability.
Caps, diodes etc ....
This would be more problematic.
Now you need to ask what components of you panel would be taken out.
THere are some specific things that I did to try to minimize the downside
here. Don't have it all before me but I would be willing to **TRY** to
answer a specific question about the installation.
James
By the way ....
I have **NO** conection to CV other than being a customer.
I believe their system "works" for some people and not for others
Your mileage may vary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Huw &
> Rachel
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 11:54 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: EXPBUS
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Huw & Rachel"
> <huwrachel@earthlink.net>
>
> Hans wrote on 02/05/03 >>>>
>
> >>I'll soon start on the electric system for my Europa. I'm
> considering the
> EXPBUS
> >>from Control Vision to be the "heart" of my system. One of the local
> veterans
> >>in the field adviced against it however (he has no personal experience
> with
> >>the EXPBUS though). He said that it looked vulnerable - and, if
> something
> would
> >>go wrong with it, it would take a lot of work to trouble-shoot
> - and most
> likely
> >>have it sent across the pond for repairs.... With of course a longtime
> >>grounding of the A/C as a result.
>
> Hans
>
> There is a lot of discussion in the archives of this list about
> the EXPBUS,
> but I doubt that anyone has enough airtime with the device to give you
> advice. I am planning to install an Eggenfellner Subaru in my
> Glastar and
> the recommended electrical system for that installation is based
> around the
> EXPBUS. This is mainly because it supports automatic switching between
> batteries in a dual battery setup. I strongly disagree with the choice of
> the EXPBUS not on grounds of its technical capabilities, because I don't
> have the knowledge to argue, but on its repairability. I keep hoping that
> Bob or someone else will produce a wiring diagram that we can pick up and
> use for building. That diagram would of course be based on standard
> components available from a number of sources.
>
> Meanwhile I read Bob's book and watch here in the hope that I can find an
> alternate way forward.
>
> from
> Huw Williams
> huwrachel@earthlink.net
>
>
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk@lmc.cc.mi.us>
Just a minor point of clarification....the Eggenfellner EXPBUS design is
for dual batteries, one alternator. I didn't use it...went with a
basic Bob design, mainly because I already had most of the parts before
deciding on the Eggenfellner engine. Wonder if using EXPBUS would have
toned down my miserable radio noise....NAH!
Bill Yamokoski
Message 9
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: brucem@olypen.com
Hans,
The EXPBUS uses poly fuses (solid state, self-resetting devices).
See the AeroElectric book and website for some strong negative
opinions on these.
Regards, Bruce
McGregor
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using OlyPen's WebMail.
http://www.olypen.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Facet Electric fuel pump ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Bill, I asked this question to Craig Weber, Facet's engineering rep, a while back
and the answer for the pump Vans sells (model # 40108) is 1.4 amps. I went
with the "beer can" style pump instead on my RV, not because it draws less current
(1 A) but because I like the inlet filter screen and it also fit in the
wingroot where I wanted to mount it.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D firewall forward....
------------------------------------------------------
Mark,
The 478360 draws 1 amp max. The 40108 draws 1.4 amps max.
Regards
Craig
> ----------
> From:
> menavrat@rockwellcollins.com[SMTP:menavrat@rockwellcollins.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 1:40 PM
> To: Weber, Craig
> Subject: RE: Interrupter Fuel Pump Question
>
>
> Hi Craig,
>
> Can you tell me the max current or power requirements for the 478360
> interrupter fuel pump (@12 VDC)?
> Also for comparison sake, what is the power req'ts for the solid state
> 40108 pump (also 12 VDC)?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Mark Navratil
Time: 06:15:38 PM PST US
From: BillRVSIX@aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Facet Electric fuel pump ?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BillRVSIX@aol.com
Hello dose any have any idea how many amps the Facet fuel pump from vans
draws. Working on bus load analysis and need to figure out circuit breaker
size. Thanks
Bill Higgins
Pembroke Ma.
Message 11
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| Subject: | CarlingTech PWM Dimmer (long) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com>
Listers,
Yesterday I received an electronic dimmer from Carling Technologies that
was previously talked about on the Aeroelectric List. (see
http://www.carlingtech.com/products/switches/ld_series.asp ). This is a
digital PWM circuit that is capable of 10A of current, with an output that
is adjustable from 0-100% duty cycle. (i.e., full OFF to full ON. 50% duty
cycle would essentially be a square wave..). It has a three wire interface:
+12VDC, Output, and Ground, with 1/4" fast-on tabs, so it's real simple to
hook up. In my case, the dimmer power and all lights are brought to a
terminal strip, so running a twisted pair of #18 wire to the dimmer, and
another #18 wire from the dimmer to the avionics common ground, only took a
few minutes to complete. (I did not mount it into the panel yet..) The part
I evaluated is a LD3A1CC1-3AAFE-1FC. (12v, 10A, 11 step, Red led labeling,
black case, rocker switch, "Bright/DIM" labeling. See the Carling web site
for other versions).
When I first heard of this device, my main concern centered about the
interference it might cause to the IFR panel I'm installing in my new RV-6A.
In a previous IFR RV-6A, I had designed and installed a PWM style dimmer,
and had to take special care to avoid EMI that would negate it's usefulness
in an avionics panel. Among other design issues, I found that by using
relatively low switching frequencies, controlling the rising and falling
edges of the switching waveform, using proper bypass and grounding
techniques, and using twisted pairs for power leads, the EMI was issues
were eliminated.
I was pleasantly surprised to find that these issues have been properly
addressed in the Carling LD-Series dimmer circuit. Even with the dimmer next
to the antenna of a COMM radio, I was not able to detect any significant EMI
on either the COMM or VOR/ILS frequency ranges. I was also not able to
detect any perceptible additional noise in an adjacent AM radio over the
entire AM band, so it shouldn't effect ADF's. With the dimmer near it's
intended mounting location, I couldn't detect any interference on any of the
radios. (see
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com.01.19.200
3/ for an earlier picture of my panel..) Any noise I was able to detect, at
any test condition, was only with the radio squelch open and the audio
turned up. Even this was barely perceptible. While this test was done in the
shop, and not out in the quiet electrical domain of an open field, I'm
relatively confident that the device will not cause any electrical
interference to the avionics.
Putting an oscilloscope on the dimmers output revealed a 200 Hz PWM
waveform with smooth rise/fall time transitions and no spikes or overshoots
when driving a load of standard incandescent bulbs and some LED's (i.e., no
additional inductive loads...). Switch turn off times were about 60 uSec (0V
- 12 Vdc) with a max Dv/Dt of 9V/50 uSec. Switch turn on times were a bit
faster at 20 uSec (12 Vdc - 0V) with a max Dv/Dt of -9V/15uSec. The PWM duty
cycle was adjustable from 0-100% in .5mS steps. With a 5 mS period for the
frequency, that results in 11 steps over the full range of control
(including OFF). For some, this might not be fine enough control. But
turning out the lights in the shop, and playing around with the dimmer while
sitting in the cockpit, convinced me that it should do the job for me.
According to Carling Technologies, the dimmer retail cost is about $35.00.
I'm trying to get a quote from a local distributor for cost and delivery
times......
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV (Reserved)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: CarlingTech PWM Dimmer (long) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Fred -
Keep us posted on the price and availability.
John Schroeder
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