Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:31 AM - Ant. distance (Larry Bowen)
2. 08:42 AM - Fuel pump(s) switch selection (Sam Hoskins)
3. 09:01 AM - Re: Ant. distance (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 09:08 AM - Re: 10351 Watson (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 09:20 AM - Re: Fuel pump(s) switch selection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:29 AM - Re: Fw: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring (John Schroeder)
7. 10:16 AM - Re: Fuel pump(s) switch selection (Sam Hoskins)
8. 10:42 AM - Re: Fw: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring (BobsV35B@aol.com)
9. 11:06 AM - Re: Fw: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring (John Schroeder)
10. 11:25 AM - Re: Fw: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring (BobsV35B@aol.com)
11. 11:37 AM - Re: Fw: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring (N823ms@aol.com)
12. 11:46 AM - Re: Fw: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring (BobsV35B@aol.com)
13. 11:51 AM - Re: Fw: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring (N823ms@aol.com)
14. 12:23 PM - Re: Fuel pump(s) switch selection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 12:25 PM - Wire Splicing (PTACKABURY@aol.com)
16. 01:06 PM - Re: Wire Splicing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 04:53 PM - EXPbus (PA-Glastar)
18. 05:45 PM - Re: Wire Splicing (PTACKABURY@aol.com)
19. 08:40 PM - Headset wiring (J. Oberst)
20. 09:13 PM - Re: Headset wiring (Don Boardman)
21. 09:52 PM - ELT antennas. (Rob W M Shipley)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I'm considering mounting my bent-whip com antennae under one foot well
and my blade xpdr antennae under the other foot well. This will give
approximately 24" between the two. Is this enough distance between the
two? Has anyone else done this? What were your results?
Thanks,
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 wires ...
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
Message 2
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| Subject: | Fuel pump(s) switch selection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@globaleyes.net>
I have started re-wiring my Quickie Q-200. I have two transfer pumps which I
would like to control independently, with one switch (to preserve panel real
estate). One switch (main) gets used a lot and the second (aux) is only used
when the temporary aux fuel tank is installed, perhaps five flights per year.
Both will be fed off the essential bus and I would like to have independent circuit
protection.
I was looking at the switches in AEC and am not able to make an appropriate selection.
I think I am looking for a 2 pole ON-ON-Off switch.
Any suggestions here?
Sam
Quickie Q-200 1,350 hrs.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Ant. distance |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:30 AM 2/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
>I'm considering mounting my bent-whip com antennae under one foot well
>and my blade xpdr antennae under the other foot well. This will give
>approximately 24" between the two. Is this enough distance between the
>two? Has anyone else done this? What were your results?
These systems are so far apart in operating frequency that
proximity to each other is pretty much a non-issue.
Comm antennas used to be mounted in pairs on top of Cessna
cabins with not much more separation with what appears
to be satisfactory performance. We did some pattern tests
with this antenna arrangement back in the 60's . . . don't
recall how much effect they had on each other. It
must have been pretty minimal since nobody got excited
enough about the test results to force repositioning
of the antennas.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 10351 Watson |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>Comments/Questions: Wiring for folding wings.
>In the electronics industry (non-flying) whenever I need to bring a cable
>(wire bundle)
>across a hinge line, we always route it parallel to the hinge pin, and as
>close as possible.
>We then clamp it as far apart as practical. (ends of hinge line)
>This allows the wire to "TWIST", not bend, and twisted wire will withstand
>much
>more twisting than it will bending. Also, if the wing (lid, panel,etc) is
>detachable,
>the connector is placed between the two tiedown points, one of which is on the
>removeable part and the other on the base. The connector should NOT be
>located in
>the middle of the span, biasing it towards one end will minimize most
>vibration effects.
Good points. Thank you for sharing them with us.
When wires have to span across moving hardware,
they're always happier being twisted/untwisted
as opposed to longitudinal flexing.
Many times, I've found it possible to mount
connectors adjacent to but outside the "twist
zone" . . . it's generally necessary to remove
only one additional clamp or other wire bundle
support to de-mate the equipment.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
You can join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump(s) switch selection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:42 AM 2/23/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins"
><shoskins@globaleyes.net>
>
>I have started re-wiring my Quickie Q-200. I have two transfer pumps
>which I would like to control independently, with one switch (to preserve
>panel real estate). One switch (main) gets used a lot and the second
>(aux) is only used when the temporary aux fuel tank is installed, perhaps
>five flights per year. Both will be fed off the essential bus and I would
>like to have independent circuit protection.
>
>I was looking at the switches in AEC and am not able to make an
>appropriate selection. I think I am looking for a 2 pole ON-ON-Off switch.
>
>Any suggestions here?
Would it matter/hurt if the main pump were running any time
aux pump was running? At 2-10 switch can give you an OFF-MAIN-BOTH
kind of opertation with the OFF position being at the bottom and
independent power circuits for both pumps.
If this isn't practical, then a 2-5 switch will let you
do an AUX-OFF-MAIN style of operation with each pump
operating independently of the other and never in
concert.
If you could use a single power source, the 2-10 can
be wired to operate as a single-pole, three-position
switch where you have OFF-MAIN-AUX operation with
the pumps never operating together.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Hi Bob -
What are the amp ratings on your alternators and the sizes/ratings of the 3
shunts?
Thanks,
John Schroeder
>
>Good Evening Ed,
>
>For what it's worth, I have an EI VA-1A-50 with a three way switch and three
>shunts which allows me to check my Battery buss, Primary Alternator buss and
>my B&C Standby Alternator buss.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump(s) switch selection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@globaleyes.net>
Thanks for the speedy reply.
Holy permutations, Batman! I have three tanks, a six gallon gravity fed
header (fwd of C.G.), 16 gallon main (approx. on C.G.), and nine gallon
removable aux (aft of C.G.). Both the main and aux feed directly into the
header tank. In this configuration I can't run the main pump at the same
time as the aux. Since the aux is in the baggage compartment it should be
burned off first to maintain proper W&B.
On one hand, I'm looking for individual circuit protection because I would
hate to have two full fuel tanks and have none available due to a single
blown fuse. But, let's see... If I'm using the aux tank (1.75 hr. capacity)
unable to transfer fuel from the aux tank, for whatever reason, I would be
forced to land as soon as practical since further flight would only make it
more tail heavy. So yes, I would need dual circuit protection to ensure
that I can take fuel out of the main tank and send it forward to the header,
helping to maintain W&B.
I suppose I could re-plumb the hoses so the aux pumps into the main tank
instead of the header. If I did that, I could use your first 2-10
suggestion. I'll have to mull that one over.
Yes, I could use a 2-5. The only problem with that is the OFF will be in the
middle position instead of the down position. I prefer to use standard
positions, where down is always off. Not saying I wouldn't make an
exception, but if possible I would rather keep it standard.
Sam
(Soon to be selling several barely used circuit breakers)
<snip>
> >
> >I have started re-wiring my Quickie Q-200. I have two transfer pumps
> >which I would like to control independently, with one switch (to preserve
> >panel real estate). One switch (main) gets used a lot and the second
> >(aux) is only used when the temporary aux fuel tank is installed, perhaps
> >five flights per year. Both will be fed off the essential bus and I
would
> >like to have independent circuit protection.
> >
> >I was looking at the switches in AEC and am not able to make an
> >appropriate selection. I think I am looking for a 2 pole ON-ON-Off
switch.
> >
> >Any suggestions here?
>
> Would it matter/hurt if the main pump were running any time
> aux pump was running? At 2-10 switch can give you an OFF-MAIN-BOTH
> kind of opertation with the OFF position being at the bottom and
> independent power circuits for both pumps.
>
> If this isn't practical, then a 2-5 switch will let you
> do an AUX-OFF-MAIN style of operation with each pump
> operating independently of the other and never in
> concert.
>
> If you could use a single power source, the 2-10 can
> be wired to operate as a single-pole, three-position
> switch where you have OFF-MAIN-AUX operation with
> the pumps never operating together.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 2/23/03 11:30:34 AM Central Standard Time,
jschroeder@perigee.net writes:
> What are the amp ratings on your alternators and the sizes/ratings of the 3
> shunts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Schroeder
>
>
Good Afternoon John,
The primary alternator is a 60 amp Teledyne 24 volt model 646849.
The backup is a B&C model BC410-1, 20 amp, 24 volt.
The shunts are all Electronics International model S-50.
The S-50 is listed by EI as follows:
> S-50: 50 amp, 50mV (100 amp capability) External Shunt. To be used with a
> VA-1A-50. Size 2" x 1.2" x 1.7" height. 3.5 Oz. Unit.Price: $35.00
>
I also used an EI switch:
> RSVA-3: Remote Switch used to monitor the Left and Right Alternator and
> Battery Current for Twins. To be used with any external shunt unit. Body 1"
> x 1" x 1.5" depth. Front Panel 2" x 1.15." 3 Oz. Unit. STC'd, PMA'd.Price:
> $98.00
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Hi Bob -
Thanks for the response. I'm beginning to understand this thread! One more
question:
When you are in each position of the 3-way switch, and with the amps function
selected on the instrument, do you read what looks like a % of the amps from
each source or do you read the amps that the sources are providing at the time
you are looking at the readout?
Thanks Again,
John
>Good Afternoon John,
>
>The primary alternator is a 60 amp Teledyne 24 volt model 646849.
>
>The backup is a B&C model BC410-1, 20 amp, 24 volt.
>
>The shunts are all Electronics International model S-50.
>
>The S-50 is listed by EI as follows:
>
>> S-50: 50 amp, 50mV (100 amp capability) External Shunt. To be used with a
>> VA-1A-50. Size 2" x 1.2" x 1.7" height. 3.5 Oz. Unit.Price: $35.00
>>
>I also used an EI switch:
>
>> RSVA-3: Remote Switch used to monitor the Left and Right Alternator and
>> Battery Current for Twins. To be used with any external shunt unit. Body 1"
>> x 1" x 1.5" depth. Front Panel 2" x 1.15." 3 Oz. Unit. STC'd, PMA'd.Price:
>> $98.00
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 2/23/03 1:06:59 PM Central Standard Time,
jschroeder@perigee.net writes:
> When you are in each position of the 3-way switch, and with the amps
> function
> selected on the instrument, do you read what looks like a % of the amps
> from
> each source or do you read the amps that the sources are providing at the
> time
> you are looking at the readout?
>
Good Afternoon John,
When in Batt position, it will show the output, if any, as a a minus flow
from the battery. If the battery is being charged, it will show the actual
charge current, in amps, to the closest tenth of an amp.
In the Primary or Standby position, it will show the total output of the
selected alternator. The readings are in amps to the closest tenth of an
amp.
When the VA switch is in the voltage position, it shows the voltage of the
whole system. There is no capability of showing any other voltage because
they are all hooked together!
My B&C is set up strictly as a back up alternator. If the voltage of the
system falls below 26 volts, for any reason, the B&C will begin to supply
current.
So far, for about four years and a thousand hours, it has worked flawlessly.
It even warned me of a drive clutch on the primary alternator starting to
slip.
I began to get an indication that the system was calling for the standby to
come on line at an RPM that it had not been calling for operation under
normal conditions. I pulled the primary alternator and my accessory guru
discovered a clutch that was starting to slip under very high loads.
I am very pleased with the unit and the counsel I have received from Bill
Bainbridge.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N823ms@aol.com
Well then old Bob, send me the type of switch and schematic.
Ed
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 2/23/03 1:38:29 PM Central Standard Time, N823ms@aol.com
writes:
> Well then old Bob, send me the type of switch and schematic.
>
>
Good Afternoon Ed,
The switch is as a listed in the last communique and I wired it just as EI
suggested. I don't have the schematic with me just now.
> RSVA-3: Remote Switch used to monitor the Left and Right Alternator and
> Battery Current for Twins. To be used with any external shunt unit. Body 1"
> x 1" x 1.5" depth. Front Panel 2" x 1.15." 3 Oz. Unit. STC'd, PMA'd.Price:
> $98.00
Works great!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N823ms@aol.com
Old Bob:
Thanks, I found the schematics within the box the gauge came in.
Thanks so much.
Ed
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump(s) switch selection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:15 PM 2/23/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins"
><shoskins@globaleyes.net>
>
>Thanks for the speedy reply.
>
>Holy permutations, Batman! I have three tanks, a six gallon gravity fed
>header (fwd of C.G.), 16 gallon main (approx. on C.G.), and nine gallon
>removable aux (aft of C.G.). Both the main and aux feed directly into the
>header tank. In this configuration I can't run the main pump at the same
>time as the aux. Since the aux is in the baggage compartment it should be
>burned off first to maintain proper W&B.
>
>On one hand, I'm looking for individual circuit protection because I would
>hate to have two full fuel tanks and have none available due to a single
>blown fuse. But, let's see... If I'm using the aux tank (1.75 hr. capacity)
>unable to transfer fuel from the aux tank, for whatever reason, I would be
>forced to land as soon as practical since further flight would only make it
>more tail heavy. So yes, I would need dual circuit protection to ensure
>that I can take fuel out of the main tank and send it forward to the header,
>helping to maintain W&B.
Hmmmm . . . how about a relay with normally closed
contacts in series with main pump. Wire coil of
relay such that it energizes with aux pump. Then
wire 2-10 in first permutation OFF-MAIN-BOTH except
relay will shut down MAIN pump in BOTH postion making
it AUX only. Now, if power is lost to aux pump,
the main pump will not shut down even if you're in the
AUX (both) position.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PTACKABURY@aol.com
Bob: After six months of daily lurking with few questions, I am ready to
seek the least esoteric advise given on this site to date: To wit--how do
you recommend I splice wires in my Lancair? Now before the rest of you
lurkers hurt yourselves giggling, I have already built a successful airplane,
a LongEZ in which I used crimped butt joints--hundreds of 'em with more added
every time I change avionics or think of a better way of doing something. My
wire bundles look like snakes after swallowing a litter of pigs. So I am
considering terminal blocks (heavy, complex, bulky and a source of future
electrical surprises) and soldered joints (twist, solder, and then heat
shrink--if only I had 4 hands this would be the obvious solution and I
wouldn't be typing this question). Oh--I read your book, mostly, but
nada--you must have assumed a lever of expertise beyond mine. So whats the
secret to neat wire runs connecting devices that come with several wires
hanging out like MAC motors, blowers, and other mostly automotive eqpt?
Thank you for considering this rather pedestrian problem. paul
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:24 PM 2/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PTACKABURY@aol.com
>
>Bob: After six months of daily lurking with few questions, I am ready to
>seek the least esoteric advise given on this site to date: To wit--how do
>you recommend I splice wires in my Lancair? Now before the rest of you
>lurkers hurt yourselves giggling, I have already built a successful airplane,
>a LongEZ in which I used crimped butt joints--hundreds of 'em with more added
>every time I change avionics or think of a better way of doing something. My
>wire bundles look like snakes after swallowing a litter of pigs. So I am
>considering terminal blocks (heavy, complex, bulky and a source of future
>electrical surprises) and soldered joints (twist, solder, and then heat
>shrink--if only I had 4 hands this would be the obvious solution and I
>wouldn't be typing this question). Oh--I read your book, mostly, but
>nada--you must have assumed a lever of expertise beyond mine. So whats the
>secret to neat wire runs connecting devices that come with several wires
>hanging out like MAC motors, blowers, and other mostly automotive eqpt?
>Thank you for considering this rather pedestrian problem. paul
Hmmmm . . . do you plan to revise/replace/modify system components
like blowers, trim actuators, etc. very often? I can sorta see where
avionics items or other whippy panel mounted gizmos can be in a
constant if slow state of flux . . . but their wires tend to be
short segments that are relatively easy to replace in their entirety.
If I understand the words with which you described your Ez project
conjures up some rather bizarre images.
I think terminal blocks with lots of screw fasteners are
rarely the solution to anything. When equipment items
such as trim actuators, blowers, fuel pumps, do not
come with service disconnects you can certainly add them
in the form of a connector. For multiple, low current wires
(less than 5a) you can do things like this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html
For heavier current, two or three-wire devices, knife
splices work pretty nice . . . For more wires in the
greater than 5A category, the AMP CPC Series I connectors
are reasonable in price and low cost tooling is available.
If you find yourself playing musical radios (or any
other panel mounted accessory), then you MIGHT benefit
from a set of cable connectors behind the radio that
simply provide a convenient place to open the wire
bundle and fabricate a new, short jumper cable to
accommodate the new radio . . . However, odds are that
a new radio will have some feature not supported in the
old bundle and you'll be doing some major rework
anyhow.
To reduce bulk in spiced wires, there is absolutely
nothing wrong with lap soldering 1/2" segments of
bare wires and covering with heatshrink. This IS
the essence of Raychem's popular solder sleeves for
joining conductors and insulating the joint with
a single, relatively easy to use but expensive
component. If you're doing just a few splices
then ordinary butt spices are no big deal. If
your doing a LOT of splices, then one would be
wise to consider cleaner ways to avoid splices
entirely.
The few times I've swapped out a radio in an airplane,
I pulled in all new wires for the installation.
Every splice, whether accomplished in a connector
or any other form adds joints and volume to the bundle
that degrades (as you have already observed) appearance,
and reliability. A strong sense of craftsmanship
will dictate that spontaneous eruptions of wire
splicing be kept to the most practical minimum.
If I were building an airplane I think I try
to practice high levels of craftsmanship for
airframe, systems AND wiring.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PA-Glastar <paglastar@nationi.net>
Bob, I was wondering how you were making out analyzing the
Eggenfellner/EXPbus design? I'm not flying yet but I have my
electrical design almost done using your Z-11a as the backbone.
Randy Gaugler
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PTACKABURY@aol.com
Bob: Thanks for your thoughts. My remaining question centers on those
components that are wired in "permanently"--that is replacement is planned
only in case of failure. Boost pumps, air blower, MAC motors all come with
wires hanging out rather than receptacles (screws) to atch wires--and those
devices would be replaced only if they fail. So why use a neat little
connector ala your referenced web page--MAC motors don't fail so why not make
an equally "permanent" splice? And should that splice be soldered twisted
wires covered with heat shrink, or a crimped butt splice, or do I really need
to fab a connector? Craftsmanship might be defined as lightness rather than
superbly flexible--maybe? paul
Message 19
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "J. Oberst" <joberst@cox-internet.com>
Can someone tell me which is the smaller-diameter plug... the mic or the
headphones?
Jim Oberst
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Headset wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
Jim,
The mic plug is smaller at .206 " with the larger phone weighing in at .25"
> Can someone tell me which is the smaller-diameter plug... the mic or the
> headphones?
>
> Jim Oberst
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob@RobsGlass.com>
A friend told me today that new rules mandate the use of external antennas only
for ELTs. I've been unable to find confirmation of this. Does anyone have any
further information?
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV Fuselage.
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