---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/24/03: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:32 AM - Re: Wire Splicing (Jon Finley) 2. 06:45 AM - Re: Wire Splicing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 07:54 AM - Antenna Proximity limits Larry Bowen (Fergus Kyle) 4. 07:56 AM - Antenna prximity Larry Bowen et al (Fergus Kyle) 5. 09:52 AM - Re: Antenna Proximity limits Larry Bowen (Larry Bowen) 6. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: Secure site? (Shannon Knoepflein) 7. 12:50 PM - Re: (Shannon Knoepflein) 8. 01:56 PM - Unswitched Audio Inputs (MikeEasley@aol.com) 9. 01:57 PM - Re: (Richard Tasker) 10. 02:06 PM - Re: Unswitched Audio Inputs (Stanley Blanton) 11. 02:27 PM - Eric Jones (David Swartzendruber) 12. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: Secure site? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 04:55 PM - Re: : amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring (emrath) 14. 05:11 PM - Re: : amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring (BobsV35B@aol.com) 15. 05:11 PM - Re: Re: Secure site? (Shannon Knoepflein) 16. 05:43 PM - Re: Unswitched Audio Inputs (Larry Bowen) 17. 06:10 PM - Re: Wire Splicing (William Bernard) 18. 06:41 PM - Re: Unswitched Audio Inputs (Bruce Gray) 19. 06:56 PM - Re: Re: Secure site? (Bill Hibbing) 20. 07:32 PM - Re: Re: Secure site? (William Slaughter) 21. 07:36 PM - Re: Re: Wire Splicing (Charlie & Tupper England) 22. 07:39 PM - Re: Re: Secure site? (Shannon Knoepflein) 23. 07:55 PM - Re: Re: Wire Splicing (DHPHKH@aol.com) 24. 08:18 PM - Off Topic - Lightning & dogs (Larry Bowen) 25. 08:30 PM - Re: Eric Jones (Richard E. Tasker) 26. 08:52 PM - Re: Eric Jones (Larry Bowen) 27. 09:06 PM - Re: Eric Jones (Robert McCallum) 28. 09:30 PM - Re: Re: Secure site? (Tony Babb) 29. 09:34 PM - Re: : amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring (N823ms@aol.com) 30. 10:35 PM - Re: Re: Wire Splicing (Mark Phillips) 31. 11:34 PM - Re: Re: Secure site? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:32 AM PST US From: "Jon Finley" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wire Splicing --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jon Finley" Hi Paul, Supurb work on your Long-EZ, I've appreciated your involvement (with CSA) over the years!! I have elected to use connectors in all (most) locations simply for the purpose of maintenance. The mentioned devices inevitably have to come out (or at least be moved out of the way) for some reason. I've enjoyed being able to simply unplug the device and then just plug it back in when finished (as opposed to have re-splicing all the wires). Jon Finley N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 440 Hrs. TT - 0 Hrs Engine Apple Valley, Minnesota http://www.FinleyWeb.net/default.asp?id=96 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of PTACKABURY@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 7:44 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Splicing > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PTACKABURY@aol.com > > Bob: Thanks for your thoughts. My remaining question > centers on those > components that are wired in "permanently"--that is > replacement is planned > only in case of failure. Boost pumps, air blower, MAC motors > all come with > wires hanging out rather than receptacles (screws) to atch > wires--and those > devices would be replaced only if they fail. So why use a > neat little > connector ala your referenced web page--MAC motors don't fail > so why not make > an equally "permanent" splice? And should that splice be > soldered twisted > wires covered with heat shrink, or a crimped butt splice, or > do I really need > to fab a connector? Craftsmanship might be defined as > lightness rather than > superbly flexible--maybe? paul ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:52 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Splicing --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:44 PM 2/23/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PTACKABURY@aol.com > >Bob: Thanks for your thoughts. My remaining question centers on those >components that are wired in "permanently"--that is replacement is planned >only in case of failure. Boost pumps, air blower, MAC motors all come with >wires hanging out rather than receptacles (screws) to atch wires--and those >devices would be replaced only if they fail. So why use a neat little >connector ala your referenced web page--MAC motors don't fail Really? Perhaps I should see if they'd be interested in a trim system contract for the Beechjet. We see replacements of perhaps 30 actuators a year in a fleet of 700 aircraft. If they build actuators that never fail, Raytheon is missing out on a really good deal . . . > . . . . . so why not make >an equally "permanent" splice? And should that splice be soldered twisted >wires covered with heat shrink, or a crimped butt splice, or do I really need >to fab a connector? Craftsmanship might be defined as lightness rather than >superbly flexible--maybe? paul The devices you've mentioned are called "LRU" (line replaceable units) in the parlance of certified aircraft. Purely as a matter of deference to the mechanic who will have to work with the airplane in the future, LRU's are installed using some form of connector. Devices with few, heavier gage wires can use a knife splice, very nearly as reliable as a butt splice and a whole lot easier to work with from a maintenance perspective. Smaller, more numerous wires for a device a brought through some kind of connector such as I have illustrated for the MAC trim actuator. No LRU is wired in "permanently" . . . Were I to suggest such a device require strip, twist and solder to remove/replace, my professionalism would be unanimously questioned by by contemporaries . . . On an OBAM airplane, the only mechanic you have to satisfy is yourself. Choice of assembly methods for wires beyond concerns for mechanical integrity are completely optional. You don't "need" to do anything you don't want to. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:14 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Proximity limits Larry Bowen --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Larry, IMHO too close. These are both 1/4wavelength antennas and are both in the VHF COMM band. Theory says they should be separated by 1/2wave at least = 300/130m = 44 inches or so. This can be relieved somewhat by substituting and antenna in another band, such as GPS or transponder. If another type of antenna is used, this restriction might be modified, depending on type. There's lots of room in most 2seaters to put antennas where least interference may be encountered. Good luck, Ferg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:05 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antenna prximity Larry Bowen et al --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Oh, oh....... I misspoke by thinking the transponder was ELT. Please ignore all foregoing................ Getting senile.......... Ferg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Proximity limits Larry Bowen From: "Larry Bowen" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" Ferg, The plan is comm on one side of the belly and xpdr on the other. Sounds like you read something else. There is also a discussion going on about ELT antennas, but that is a different thread....right? Thanks, -- Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com 2003: The Year of Flight! Fergus Kyle said: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" > > Larry, > IMHO too close. These are both 1/4wavelength antennas and > are > both in the VHF COMM band. Theory says they should be separated by > 1/2wave at least = 300/130m = 44 inches or so. This can be relieved > somewhat by substituting and antenna in another band, such as GPS or > transponder. If another type of antenna is used, this restriction might > be modified, depending on type. There's lots of room in most 2seaters to > put antennas where least interference may be encountered. > Good luck, > Ferg > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:23 PM PST US From: "Shannon Knoepflein" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" Bob, Not to discourage you or your site, but, my credit card number was stolen while ordering from your site. I know it was your site because it is the only thing I had ordered within a several week period around the associated date. No big deal, my CC company caught it, canceled it, and had me a new one in a couple days. Now I just leave instructions for B&C to call me and I'll give them the number. Words great. I would suggest other do this too, just to be safe. However, just so you know, somebody is watching the site and grabbing numbers somehow. I'll be the first to admit I have no idea how they do it, but I also know I didn't order anything else around that time, so it was pretty much the only data point that it being stolen could be attributed to. --- Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 12:03 PM 2/11/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Doug Lawton" > > >Bob, > >Just curious, is your website's order taking capability a secure >transaction? It doesn't look to be so. No. The costs of secure website software adds only a modicum of safety to an issue that is hundreds of times wider than encrypted transfers from your browser to my server . . . I've determined that the whole "secure server" thing is bogus and I elected not to load my customers with essentially worthless overhead. >I'd like to order a copy of the book, but I'm not in favor of insecure >transactions over the internet. I tried calling your phone number to relay >credit card information and got the fax. If I'm in the office, I pick up in 4 rings or less. Otherwise you get the fax. You could fax your order in. >Just starting on the planning stages of my electrical system and need all >the help I can get...... B&C stocks the book too . . . you can call them during CST business hours and talk to a person who will write down your order. Call 316.283.8000 Thanks! Bob . . . |---------------------------------------------------| | A lie can travel half way around the world while | | the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . | | -Mark Twain- | |---------------------------------------------------| ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:26 PM PST US From: "Shannon Knoepflein" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" I agree with Bob that they shouldn't be needed. However, I had a piece of equipment (read SFS EFIS, basically a PC) that could not tolerate the low voltage condition during starting, and if it happened at the wrong point during the SFS bootup, it could chunk memory and files and not recover. Therefore, I had to do something to protect this "pampered" piece. I feel an AV MASTER that just controls a solid state relay (eric jones powerlink JR) is a good choice when this HAS to be this way. I went one step further and put my ESS avionics behind this AV MASTER, and added a diode (superDiode from Eric Jones) and an ESS (AV) alternate feed directly from the battery. I feel this is the most robust design when confronted with a piece that actually DOES (most don't as Bob points out) have to be protected, and doesn't have its own ON/OFF switch. --- Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Casey Subject: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" << I've seen this article and several others in the same vein. As you have observed, they are remarkable for their lack of data. These writers are propagandists, no more than living echoes of ancient dogma. As a PhD, Mr Rogers is OBLIGATED to expand on understanding based on data . . . this guy might just as well be writing ad copy for breakfast cereal.>> I dealt with Tom Rogers a number of times when he was doing an installation in my Cessna (I'll admit it, we installed an avionics master at the time). While he is very knowledgeable, I would have bet a weeks pay he didn't have a PhD, at least not in a technical field. His understanding of the engineering basics was more of an experience-based one than one founded on the physics and theoretical. He does make a point that some of the electronic gizmos don't have power switches, so a "master" is the only way to turn them off. In my uninformed state (read ignorant) state, the reason for the master was simple - it's easier to remember to turn one thing on and off than several. Having said all that, the only reason I can think of to turn off the radios at all is to eliminate the few amps of draw during cranking to save every bit of energy for the starter. I once owned a no-master airplane with several others; there were always radios that were left on and I often tried to transmit through a radio which I hadn't yet turned on. It would seem to me two masters in parallel would be a reasonable approach. Gary Casey ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:37 PM PST US From: MikeEasley@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Unswitched Audio Inputs --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com I am wiring my own panel with a UPSAT SL15M audio panel with 2 unswitched audio inputs. I have an AOA, EDM900, TruTrak Autopilot, and a Davtron that all need to be connected to an unswitched audio input. PS Engineering said, "Use a dropping resistor from 100 to 460 ohms on each feed and hook two up to each input". UPSAT said, "It can't be done, pick two". TruTrak said, "Just hook all 4 up, it won't hurt a thing". Anyone else care to cast a vote!!! Thanks, Mike Easley Colorado Springs Lancair ES ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:57:52 PM PST US From: Richard Tasker Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker I have seen Eric Jones and his products mentioned several times, but cannot find him on the web. Do you have a URL for him? DIck Tasker, RV9A - 90573 Shannon Knoepflein wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" > >I agree with Bob that they shouldn't be needed. However, I had a piece >of equipment (read SFS EFIS, basically a PC) that could not tolerate the >low voltage condition during starting, and if it happened at the wrong >point during the SFS bootup, it could chunk memory and files and not >recover. Therefore, I had to do something to protect this "pampered" >piece. > >I feel an AV MASTER that just controls a solid state relay (eric jones >powerlink JR) is a good choice when this HAS to be this way. I went one >step further and put my ESS avionics behind this AV MASTER, and added a >diode (superDiode from Eric Jones) and an ESS (AV) alternate feed >directly from the battery. I feel this is the most robust design when >confronted with a piece that actually DOES (most don't as Bob points >out) have to be protected, and doesn't have its own ON/OFF switch. > >--- >Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary >Casey >To: Aeroelectric-List >Subject: AeroElectric-List: > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" > > ><< > I've seen this article and several others in the > same vein. As you have observed, they are > remarkable for their lack of data. These writers > are propagandists, no more than living echoes of > ancient dogma. > > As a PhD, Mr Rogers is OBLIGATED to expand > on understanding based on data . . . this guy > might just as well be writing ad copy for > breakfast cereal.>> > >I dealt with Tom Rogers a number of times when he was doing an >installation >in my Cessna (I'll admit it, we installed an avionics master at the >time). >While he is very knowledgeable, I would have bet a weeks pay he didn't >have >a PhD, at least not in a technical field. His understanding of the >engineering basics was more of an experience-based one than one founded >on >the physics and theoretical. He does make a point that some of the >electronic gizmos don't have power switches, so a "master" is the only >way >to turn them off. In my uninformed state (read ignorant) state, the >reason >for the master was simple - it's easier to remember to turn one thing on >and >off than several. Having said all that, the only reason I can think of >to >turn off the radios at all is to eliminate the few amps of draw during >cranking to save every bit of energy for the starter. I once owned a >no-master airplane with several others; there were always radios that >were >left on and I often tried to transmit through a radio which I hadn't yet >turned on. It would seem to me two masters in parallel would be a >reasonable approach. > >Gary Casey > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:03 PM PST US From: "Stanley Blanton" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Unswitched Audio Inputs --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stanley Blanton" snip I am wiring my own panel with a UPSAT SL15M audio panel with 2 unswitched audio inputs. I have an AOA, EDM900, TruTrak Autopilot, and a Davtron that all need to be connected to an unswitched audio input. PS Engineering said, "Use a dropping resistor from 100 to 460 ohms on each feed and hook two up to each input". UPSAT said, "It can't be done, pick two". TruTrak said, "Just hook all 4 up, it won't hurt a thing". Anyone else care to cast a vote!!! Thanks, Mike Easley Colorado Springs Lancair ES Mike, Here's a past exchnge on this topic from the AeroElectric list: (Basically a poor man's audio panel) Stan Blanton >> See some new drawings I just posted at: >> >> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v1.pdf >> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v2.pdf >> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v3.pdf >> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v4.pdf >> >> These four drawings show how to do stereo with the >> Microair (or any other transceiver). >Is this amplifier (p. 2.4) expandable in parallel using the same value >components for other inputs such as engine monitors, fuel monitors, MB >lights etc. or would all of the component values have to be adjusted? You can add additional inputs to as many as you need. The component values assume that all audio sources are in the same ballpark for output voltage. If you have a lot of different sources, you might want to put a screwdriver adjustment gain control in the input circuit of each source. >Does each warning tone source need its own set of resitor/capacitors? Yes . . . >Could this be used (with some of the sources switched) as a poor man's audio >panel driving an intercom other than that included in a Microair? You can use this basic amplifier configuration with any combination of radios/music sources/intercom systems. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------- ( "Teaching should be such that what is offered ) ( is perceived as a valuable gift and not as a ) ( hard duty ." Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:29 PM PST US From: "David Swartzendruber" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Eric Jones --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber" Try http://www.periheliondesign.com Dave in Wichita > > I have seen Eric Jones and his products mentioned several times, but > cannot find him on the web. Do you have a URL for him? > > DIck Tasker, RV9A - 90573 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:02 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 03:09 PM 2/24/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" > > >Bob, > >Not to discourage you or your site, but, my credit card number was >stolen while ordering from your site. I know it was your site because >it is the only thing I had ordered within a several week period around >the associated date. >No big deal, my CC company caught it, canceled it, and had me a new one >in a couple days. Now I just leave instructions for B&C to call me and >I'll give them the number. Words great. I would suggest other do this >too, just to be safe. A single event? A stolen number generally gets a flood of activity. Do you recall the name of the company that posted the bogus charge? >However, just so you know, somebody is watching the site and grabbing >numbers somehow. I'll be the first to admit I have no idea how they do >it, but I also know I didn't order anything else around that time, so it >was pretty much the only data point that it being stolen could be >attributed to. What makes you think the # wasn't acquired weeks or even months before/after your order? The card is used for nothing else other than ordering from AEC/B&C? You didn't go out to dinner and hand it to a waiter? I can understand how, based on what information you have, you might arrive at the conclusion you've cited . . . but without forensic data or confessions by perps, your conclusion is poorly founded. We are looking into adding encryption to the browser uplink . . . the prices have come down considerably since the last time I checked. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:00 PM PST US From: emrath Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: : amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: emrath What is so special about that Switch RSVA-3 that it costs $98.00? Marty in Brentwood TN Time: 10:42:08 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 2/23/03 11:30:34 AM Central Standard Time, jschroeder@perigee.net writes: > What are the amp ratings on your alternators and the sizes/ratings of the 3 > shunts? > > Thanks, > > John Schroeder > > Good Afternoon John, The primary alternator is a 60 amp Teledyne 24 volt model 646849. The backup is a B&C model BC410-1, 20 amp, 24 volt. The shunts are all Electronics International model S-50. The S-50 is listed by EI as follows: > S-50: 50 amp, 50mV (100 amp capability) External Shunt. To be used with a > VA-1A-50. Size 2" x 1.2" x 1.7" height. 3.5 Oz. Unit.Price: $35.00 > I also used an EI switch: > RSVA-3: Remote Switch used to monitor the Left and Right Alternator and > Battery Current for Twins. To be used with any external shunt unit. Body 1" > x 1" x 1.5" depth. Front Panel 2" x 1.15." 3 Oz. Unit. STC'd, PMA'd.Price: > $98.00 Happy Skies, Old Bob ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:53 PM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: : amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 2/24/03 6:55:49 PM Central Standard Time, emrath@comcast.net writes: > What is so special about that Switch RSVA-3 that it costs $98.00? > Marty in Brentwood TN > Good Evening Marty, I don't know, but I would imagine it is because it is FAA approved! Happy Skies, Old Bob ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:54 PM PST US From: "Shannon Knoepflein" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" Bob, no need to get in a hissy, it's really no big deal. All I'm saying is I hadn't used the card for several weeks, then I used it on a purchase from your non-secure site, and 3-4 days later I was getting a call from my CC company asking me about purchases. The perps had made 5 or 6 purchases from strange places that didn't fit my pattern (I don't use the card much, so a lot of use quickly, from strange places prompted them). So, my only conclusion was it happened from your site. I only use this card for airplane parts purchases (B&C and Aircraft Spruce basically is it), so I don't know how else it could have happened. I have another card I use for all my other personal stuff. The card I used was my AOPA card, and I only use it for airplane stuff. Anyway, I told the lady at B&C about it (very nice and helpful BTW), and she said I was the first (and only as far as she knew) to have a problem. I'm sure I was the first, and probably will be the last, but who knows. I've ordered 2-3 times from B&C since and I just leave a note to call me for the card in the special instructions section. Again, no big deal. I just would suggest you fix it (like I suggested to her) or that you tell people to do the same as I do with a note to call. Now, it is certainly possible it was stolen another way several weeks before, but highly unlikely considering the circumstances. Like I've said before, its really not a big deal though. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 03:09 PM 2/24/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" > > >Bob, > >Not to discourage you or your site, but, my credit card number was >stolen while ordering from your site. I know it was your site because >it is the only thing I had ordered within a several week period around >the associated date. >No big deal, my CC company caught it, canceled it, and had me a new one >in a couple days. Now I just leave instructions for B&C to call me and >I'll give them the number. Words great. I would suggest other do this >too, just to be safe. A single event? A stolen number generally gets a flood of activity. Do you recall the name of the company that posted the bogus charge? >However, just so you know, somebody is watching the site and grabbing >numbers somehow. I'll be the first to admit I have no idea how they do >it, but I also know I didn't order anything else around that time, so it >was pretty much the only data point that it being stolen could be >attributed to. What makes you think the # wasn't acquired weeks or even months before/after your order? The card is used for nothing else other than ordering from AEC/B&C? You didn't go out to dinner and hand it to a waiter? I can understand how, based on what information you have, you might arrive at the conclusion you've cited . . . but without forensic data or confessions by perps, your conclusion is poorly founded. We are looking into adding encryption to the browser uplink . . . the prices have come down considerably since the last time I checked. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:42 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Unswitched Audio Inputs --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" I have a TruTrak (DF200VS) also. I didn't realize it made noise. When? - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com 2003 - The year of flight! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of MikeEasley@aol.com > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 4:55 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Unswitched Audio Inputs > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com > > I am wiring my own panel with a UPSAT SL15M audio panel with > 2 unswitched > audio inputs. I have an AOA, EDM900, TruTrak Autopilot, and > a Davtron that > all need to be connected to an unswitched audio input. PS > Engineering said, > "Use a dropping resistor from 100 to 460 ohms on each feed > and hook two up to > each input". UPSAT said, "It can't be done, pick two". > TruTrak said, "Just > hook all 4 up, it won't hurt a thing". Anyone else care to > cast a vote!!! > > Thanks, > > Mike Easley > Colorado Springs > Lancair ES > > > ========== > Matronics Forums. > ========== > List members. > ========== > ========== > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:24 PM PST US From: "William Bernard" "AeroElectric-List Digest List" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wire Splicing --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard" I'd like to pass on a suggestion one of my friends made about wire splices, useful on small wires. Attach the pins for a d-sub connector onto each wire (obviously male on one and female on the wire to be joined.) Then, instead of inserting the pin into a connector, simply slide a piece of heat shrink over the pins and the splice is made. If the part needs to be changed out, just cut off the heat shrink. Sounded good to this neophyte! Bill > > > Time: 01:06:27 PM PST US > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Splicing > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 03:24 PM 2/23/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PTACKABURY@aol.com > > > >Bob: After six months of daily lurking with few questions, I am ready to > >seek the least esoteric advise given on this site to date: To wit--how do > >you recommend I splice wires in my Lancair? Now before the rest of you > >lurkers hurt yourselves giggling, I have already built a successful airplane, > >a LongEZ in which I used crimped butt joints--hundreds of 'em with more added > >every time I change avionics or think of a better way of doing something. My > >wire bundles look like snakes after swallowing a litter of pigs. So I am > >considering terminal blocks (heavy, complex, bulky and a source of future > >electrical surprises) and soldered joints (twist, solder, and then heat > >shrink--if only I had 4 hands this would be the obvious solution and I > >wouldn't be typing this question). Oh--I read your book, mostly, but > >nada--you must have assumed a lever of expertise beyond mine. So whats the > >secret to neat wire runs connecting devices that come with several wires > >hanging out like MAC motors, blowers, and other mostly automotive eqpt? > >Thank you for considering this rather pedestrian problem. paul > > Hmmmm . . . do you plan to revise/replace/modify system components > like blowers, trim actuators, etc. very often? I can sorta see where > avionics items or other whippy panel mounted gizmos can be in a > constant if slow state of flux . . . but their wires tend to be > short segments that are relatively easy to replace in their entirety. > If I understand the words with which you described your Ez project > conjures up some rather bizarre images. > > I think terminal blocks with lots of screw fasteners are > rarely the solution to anything. When equipment items > such as trim actuators, blowers, fuel pumps, do not > come with service disconnects you can certainly add them > in the form of a connector. For multiple, low current wires > (less than 5a) you can do things like this: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html > > For heavier current, two or three-wire devices, knife > splices work pretty nice . . . For more wires in the > greater than 5A category, the AMP CPC Series I connectors > are reasonable in price and low cost tooling is available. > > If you find yourself playing musical radios (or any > other panel mounted accessory), then you MIGHT benefit > from a set of cable connectors behind the radio that > simply provide a convenient place to open the wire > bundle and fabricate a new, short jumper cable to > accommodate the new radio . . . However, odds are that > a new radio will have some feature not supported in the > old bundle and you'll be doing some major rework > anyhow. > > To reduce bulk in spiced wires, there is absolutely > nothing wrong with lap soldering 1/2" segments of > bare wires and covering with heatshrink. This IS > the essence of Raychem's popular solder sleeves for > joining conductors and insulating the joint with > a single, relatively easy to use but expensive > component. If you're doing just a few splices > then ordinary butt spices are no big deal. If > your doing a LOT of splices, then one would be > wise to consider cleaner ways to avoid splices > entirely. > > The few times I've swapped out a radio in an airplane, > I pulled in all new wires for the installation. > Every splice, whether accomplished in a connector > or any other form adds joints and volume to the bundle > that degrades (as you have already observed) appearance, > and reliability. A strong sense of craftsmanship > will dictate that spontaneous eruptions of wire > splicing be kept to the most practical minimum. > > If I were building an airplane I think I try > to practice high levels of craftsmanship for > airframe, systems AND wiring. > > Bob . . . > Time: 05:45:26 PM PST US > From: PTACKABURY@aol.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Splicing > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PTACKABURY@aol.com > > Bob: Thanks for your thoughts. My remaining question centers on those > components that are wired in "permanently"--that is replacement is planned > only in case of failure. Boost pumps, air blower, MAC motors all come with > wires hanging out rather than receptacles (screws) to atch wires--and those > devices would be replaced only if they fail. So why use a neat little > connector ala your referenced web page--MAC motors don't fail so why not make > an equally "permanent" splice? And should that splice be soldered twisted > wires covered with heat shrink, or a crimped butt splice, or do I really need > to fab a connector? Craftsmanship might be defined as lightness rather than > superbly flexible--maybe? paul > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:34 PM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Unswitched Audio Inputs --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" It should put out a chime when it's disengaged. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bowen Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Unswitched Audio Inputs --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" I have a TruTrak (DF200VS) also. I didn't realize it made noise. When? - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com 2003 - The year of flight! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of MikeEasley@aol.com > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 4:55 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Unswitched Audio Inputs > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com > > I am wiring my own panel with a UPSAT SL15M audio panel with > 2 unswitched > audio inputs. I have an AOA, EDM900, TruTrak Autopilot, and > a Davtron that > all need to be connected to an unswitched audio input. PS > Engineering said, > "Use a dropping resistor from 100 to 460 ohms on each feed > and hook two up to > each input". UPSAT said, "It can't be done, pick two". > TruTrak said, "Just > hook all 4 up, it won't hurt a thing". Anyone else care to > cast a vote!!! > > Thanks, > > Mike Easley > Colorado Springs > Lancair ES > > > ========== > Matronics Forums. > ========== > List members. > ========== > ========== > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:24 PM PST US From: "Bill Hibbing" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Hibbing" I find this very interesting. My AOPA card was also compromised and the only place that I use it is for self service avgas and then I make sure that I have the receipt. I had a couple of charges from places that were widely separated. The bank took care of the charges and sent me a new card also. Kind of makes a person wonder. Bill Glasair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Knoepflein" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" > The card I > used was my AOPA card, and I only use it for airplane stuff. > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:18 PM PST US From: "William Slaughter" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Slaughter" Very recently there was a computer security breach at a third party card processor (un-named in the article I read) which compromised millions of credit card numbers. William RV-8 -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Hibbing Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Hibbing" I find this very interesting. My AOPA card was also compromised and the only place that I use it is for self service avgas and then I make sure that I have the receipt. I had a couple of charges from places that were widely separated. The bank took care of the charges and sent me a new card also. Kind of makes a person wonder. Bill Glasair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Knoepflein" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" > The card I > used was my AOPA card, and I only use it for airplane stuff. > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:13 PM PST US From: Charlie & Tupper England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wire Splicing --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England William Bernard wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard" > >I'd like to pass on a suggestion one of my friends made about wire splices, >useful on small wires. Attach the pins for a d-sub connector onto each wire >(obviously male on one and female on the wire to be joined.) Then, instead >of inserting the pin into a connector, simply slide a piece of heat shrink >over the pins and the splice is made. If the part needs to be changed out, >just cut off the heat shrink. > >Sounded good to this neophyte! > >Bill > The only significant downside is that the heat shrink isn't a reliable locking device & could allow the connection to be opened by unintended tension on the wires. Charlie ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:40 PM PST US From: "Shannon Knoepflein" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" There you go. See, I could be totally off base. Just seemed like it made sense. Its possible it happened another way when mine got stolen. Either way, its no big deal and there are ways to protect yourself. I know I'm more careful now. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Hibbing Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Hibbing" I find this very interesting. My AOPA card was also compromised and the only place that I use it is for self service avgas and then I make sure that I have the receipt. I had a couple of charges from places that were widely separated. The bank took care of the charges and sent me a new card also. Kind of makes a person wonder. Bill Glasair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Knoepflein" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" > The card I > used was my AOPA card, and I only use it for airplane stuff. > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:45 PM PST US From: DHPHKH@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wire Splicing --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DHPHKH@aol.com Gang, Nice idea about using d-sub pins and heat shrink for an inline splice in small wires. I wouldn't be concerned about heat shrink being an insecure locking device if you're using the good stuff with the hot melt adhesive coating on the inside. Dan ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:22 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Off Topic - Lightning & dogs --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" OFF TOPIC. DO NOT ARCHIVE DELETE NOW, UNLESS YOU ARE CURIOUS. Not really RV related, but someone here may have the answer, so I thought I'd try. My canine underground fence (Contain-A-Pet brand) is continuously being zapped by lightning. There is a 2A fuse inside, but it's not blown. If I can wire an airplane, I should be able to service this! Anyone know where to begin? Warranty service is a pain. - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com 2003 - The year of flight! ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:38 PM PST US From: "Richard E. Tasker" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Eric Jones --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" Does this URL actually do anything for you? I have both IE5.5 and Netscape 7 and the web site does nothing except display a rather rudimentary home page - no links do anything... Dick David Swartzendruber wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber" > >Try http://www.periheliondesign.com > > >Dave in Wichita > > > >>I have seen Eric Jones and his products mentioned several times, but >>cannot find him on the web. Do you have a URL for him? >> >>DIck Tasker, RV9A - 90573 >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:07 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Eric Jones --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" Works for me. XP SP1, IE6SP1. Some neat stuff. I like the little wig-wag(d) Do not archive. - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com 2003 - The year of flight! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Richard E. Tasker > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 11:29 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Eric Jones > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" > --> > > Does this URL actually do anything for you? I have both IE5.5 and > Netscape 7 and the web site does nothing except display a rather > rudimentary home page - no links do anything... > > Dick > > David Swartzendruber wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber" > >--> > > > >Try http://www.periheliondesign.com > > > > > >Dave in Wichita > > > > > > > >>I have seen Eric Jones and his products mentioned several > times, but > >>cannot find him on the web. Do you have a URL for him? > >> > >>DIck Tasker, RV9A - 90573 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:39 PM PST US From: Robert McCallum Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Eric Jones --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert McCallum "Richard E. Tasker" wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" > > Does this URL actually do anything for you? I have both IE5.5 and > Netscape 7 and the web site does nothing except display a rather > rudimentary home page - no links do anything... > > Dick > This page does not work in Netscape 7, or 4.79 but does work fine in Internet Explorer 6.0 on my computer. -- Bob McC DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:55 PM PST US From: "Tony Babb" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tony Babb" Wasn't there a news item recently (in the past few days maybe a week or so back) about several million cc numbers being stolen from a cc servicing company. Could be yours was one of them. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Knoepflein" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" > > Bob, no need to get in a hissy, it's really no big deal. All I'm saying > is I hadn't used the card for several weeks, then I used it on a > purchase from your non-secure site, and 3-4 days later I was getting a > call from my CC company asking me about purchases. The perps had made 5 > or 6 purchases from strange places that didn't fit my pattern (I don't > use the card much, so a lot of use quickly, from strange places prompted > them). So, my only conclusion was it happened from your site. I only > use this card for airplane parts purchases (B&C and Aircraft Spruce > basically is it), so I don't know how else it could have happened. I > have another card I use for all my other personal stuff. The card I > used was my AOPA card, and I only use it for airplane stuff. > > Anyway, I told the lady at B&C about it (very nice and helpful BTW), and > she said I was the first (and only as far as she knew) to have a > problem. I'm sure I was the first, and probably will be the last, but > who knows. I've ordered 2-3 times from B&C since and I just leave a > note to call me for the card in the special instructions section. > > Again, no big deal. I just would suggest you fix it (like I suggested > to her) or that you tell people to do the same as I do with a note to > call. > > Now, it is certainly possible it was stolen another way several weeks > before, but highly unlikely considering the circumstances. Like I've > said before, its really not a big deal though. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Robert L. Nuckolls, III > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > At 03:09 PM 2/24/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" > > > > > >Bob, > > > >Not to discourage you or your site, but, my credit card number was > >stolen while ordering from your site. I know it was your site because > >it is the only thing I had ordered within a several week period around > >the associated date. > > > >No big deal, my CC company caught it, canceled it, and had me a new one > >in a couple days. Now I just leave instructions for B&C to call me and > >I'll give them the number. Words great. I would suggest other do this > >too, just to be safe. > > A single event? A stolen number generally gets a flood > of activity. Do you recall the name of the company that > posted the bogus charge? > > >However, just so you know, somebody is watching the site and grabbing > >numbers somehow. I'll be the first to admit I have no idea how they do > >it, but I also know I didn't order anything else around that time, so > it > >was pretty much the only data point that it being stolen could be > >attributed to. > > What makes you think the # wasn't acquired weeks or even > months before/after your order? The card is used for nothing > else other than ordering from AEC/B&C? You didn't go out > to dinner and hand it to a waiter? > > I can understand how, based on what information you have, > you might arrive at the conclusion you've cited . . . > but without forensic data or confessions by perps, your > conclusion is poorly founded. > > We are looking into adding encryption to the browser > uplink . . . the prices have come down considerably > since the last time I checked. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:02 PM PST US From: N823ms@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: : amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N823ms@aol.com Old , John I may be wrong but I will check it. I have a S-50, and the shunt is stamped 100mv'100amp. Ed ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:37 PM PST US From: Mark Phillips Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wire Splicing --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips I'd like to think a butt splice would be perfectly suitable- what is the advantage gained by the pins? A properly applied "butt" is virtually unconpromisable- you crimp the majority of other terminations in your system, so why is a butt splice unacceptable? From The PossumWorks in TN Mark DHPHKH@aol.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DHPHKH@aol.com > > Gang, > Nice idea about using d-sub pins and heat shrink for an inline splice in > small wires. I wouldn't be concerned about heat shrink being an insecure > locking device if you're using the good stuff with the hot melt adhesive > coating on the inside. > > Dan > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:01 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:28 PM 2/24/2003 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tony Babb" > >Wasn't there a news item recently (in the past few days maybe a week or so >back) about several million cc numbers being stolen from a cc servicing >company. Could be yours was one of them. Nope. Card numbers are stored here behind two firewalls. One which is hardware that filters off all protocols for data transfer coming in from the 'net. Nobody taps that machine from outside . . . not even me. The book keeping machine is never used to download applications that might contain trojans and the software firewall would trap and flag those if they existed. Drives with sensitive data are not shared on the local network nor mapped to other computers. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Shannon Knoepflein" >To: >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site? > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" > > > > > Bob, no need to get in a hissy, it's really no big deal. It's something of a "deal" when my system is tagged as "probable cause" with nothing other than commonality of numerous transactions over a range of dates. Its like suggesting that I was responsible for vandalizing my neighbor's garden because I happen to own a shovel. If my system had been breached, there should have been hundreds of incidents with strong correlation to transactions with B&C and/or AEC. Vulnerability of the computers on which thousands of card numbers are stored has no relationship to or benefit from having an encrypted transaction between your browser and the computer that hosts the website . . . and we're looking at closing that very tiny porthole soon. Bob . . .