Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:26 AM - Re: Re: Secure site? (Tony Babb)
2. 03:00 AM - Re: Re: Wire Splicing (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
3. 04:50 AM - Re: : amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring (BobsV35B@aol.com)
4. 05:04 AM - Re: Re: Wire Splicing (BobsV35B@aol.com)
5. 05:18 AM - Re: Re: Secure site? (Shannon Knoepflein)
6. 05:33 AM - Re: Re: Secure site? WAY off topic (Shannon Knoepflein)
7. 05:39 AM - Tyco EV200 power relay (Alfred Buess)
8. 05:44 AM - TruTrak Sounds (MikeEasley@aol.com)
9. 05:45 AM - Re: Re: Secure site? WAY off topic (DHPHKH@aol.com)
10. 05:52 AM - Re: Eric Jones (John Schroeder)
11. 06:35 AM - Re: Tyco EV200 power relay (Shaun Simpkins)
12. 07:10 AM - Re: Eric Jones (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 07:17 AM - Re: Re: Secure site? (Finn Lassen)
14. 07:20 AM - Re: Off Topic - Lightning & dogs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: Wire Splicing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 07:28 AM - Re: Re: Secure site? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 07:37 AM - Re: Re: Wire Splicing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 07:39 AM - Re: Re: Wire Splicing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 07:42 AM - Re: Off Topic - Lightning & dogs (Larry Bowen)
20. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: Secure site? (Bill Hibbing)
21. 08:36 AM - Re: Wire Splicing (MikeEasley@aol.com)
22. 09:17 AM - Differential Radio Noise (William Yamokoski)
23. 09:21 AM - Re: Eric Jones (Richard Tasker)
24. 09:38 AM - Re: (HCRV6@aol.com)
25. 09:47 AM - Re: Eric Jones (Bill Steer)
26. 10:12 AM - Firewall pass-through protection hardware (czechsix@juno.com)
27. 10:20 AM - Dynon Beta testers, anyone?? (czechsix@juno.com)
28. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: AMP CPC or Equivalent Connectors (Steve Sampson)
29. 10:42 AM - Re: Eric Jones (Richard Tasker)
30. 10:58 AM - Fw: Columbia (Jaye and Scott Jackson)
31. 12:14 PM - Re: TruTrak Sounds (David Chalmers)
32. 12:30 PM - Re[2]: Eric Jones (Freddie Freeloader)
33. 12:59 PM - Re: Eric Jones (Richard Tasker)
34. 01:03 PM - Rotax 912 charge light (Shay King)
35. 01:45 PM - Dynon Beta testers--reply from Dynon (czechsix@juno.com)
36. 02:28 PM - Re: Re: Wire Splicing (N823ms@aol.com)
37. 02:31 PM - Re: Eric Jones (John Schroeder)
38. 02:32 PM - Re: Dynon Beta testers, anyone?? (N823ms@aol.com)
39. 06:47 PM - Circuit Breakers (Tom Brusehaver)
40. 07:40 PM - N2GX Fist Flight (Gabe and Marisol Ferrer)
41. 08:10 PM - Re: AMP CPC or Equivalent Connectors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
42. 08:28 PM - Re: N2GX Fist Flight (John Slade)
43. 08:56 PM - Re: Eric Jones (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
44. 09:33 PM - Re: Circuit Breakers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
45. 09:35 PM - Re: Rotax 912 charge light (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
46. 10:19 PM - Dynon Beta testers--reply from Dynon (Jim V. Wickert)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tony Babb" <tonybabb@alejandra.net>
Bob,
As I understand it the problem was that the company that services
transactions was hacked, not your good self so even if you used one of those
little machines that connects by telephone line to them, at some point the
cc number ends up on the cc servicing company network, it has to so they can
charge the card. No reflection on your own security but on the company that
processes cc transactions for the banks.
Cheers,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 09:28 PM 2/24/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tony Babb"
<tonybabb@alejandra.net>
> >
> >Wasn't there a news item recently (in the past few days maybe a week or
so
> >back) about several million cc numbers being stolen from a cc servicing
> >company. Could be yours was one of them.
>
> Nope. Card numbers are stored here behind two firewalls.
> One which is hardware that filters off all protocols
> for data transfer coming in from the 'net. Nobody taps
> that machine from outside . . . not even me. The
> book keeping machine is never used to download applications
> that might contain trojans and the software firewall would
> trap and flag those if they existed. Drives with
> sensitive data are not shared on the local network nor
> mapped to other computers.
>
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann@kyol.net>
> >To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
> >
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein"
> ><kycshann@kyol.net>
> > >
> > > Bob, no need to get in a hissy, it's really no big deal.
>
> It's something of a "deal" when my system is tagged as "probable
cause"
> with nothing other than commonality of numerous transactions
> over a range of dates. Its like suggesting that I
> was responsible for vandalizing my neighbor's garden
> because I happen to own a shovel.
>
> If my system had been breached, there should have been
> hundreds of incidents with strong correlation to transactions
> with B&C and/or AEC. Vulnerability of the computers
> on which thousands of card numbers are stored
> has no relationship to or benefit from having an
> encrypted transaction between your browser and the
> computer that hosts the website . . . and we're
> looking at closing that very tiny porthole
> soon.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
In a message dated 2/25/2003 1:36:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ripsteel@edge.net writes:
>
> I'd like to think a butt splice would be perfectly suitable- what is the
> advantage gained by the pins? A properly applied "butt" is virtually
> unconpromisable- you crimp the majority of other terminations in your
> system, so why is a butt splice unacceptable?
>
> From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark
>
Mark,
I agree. The key is a "properly crimped" butt splice. Butt splices in my
experience have gotten a bad reputation due to the fact that extra care is
needed to install one correctly. With a crimp-on terminal you can see the
wire ends extend through the crimp zone. A but splice takes more care to
make the crimp in the correct area with the wire properly inserted. Using
the wrong size butt splice is a common mistake but that applies to any
crimped terminal. A butt splice in a tied bundle is a source for wire
chaffing. I would suppose the biggest objection is in the fact that a butt
splice has little or no additional mechanical support other than at the crimp
itself.
Mark, do possums really do any work?
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Outback, (out back in the garage)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: : amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 2/24/03 11:34:31 PM Central Standard Time, N823ms@aol.com
writes:
> Old , John
>
> I may be wrong but I will check it. I have a S-50, and the shunt is
> stamped 100mv'100amp.
>
> Ed
>
Good Morning John,
The data that comes with the shunt calls it a 50 amp unit that is good for up
to 100 amps.
I have no idea if that is common in the industry or not.
I have tried turning on everything that is mounted in my airplane all at the
same time and have never been able to get the load above 35 amps or so. I
am, therefore, unable to tell you whether the system will show a current
above 50 adequately, but I'll bet a milkshake it will!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 2/25/03 12:36:48 AM Central Standard Time,
ripsteel@edge.net writes:
> I'd like to think a butt splice would be perfectly suitable- what is the
> advantage gained by the pins? A properly applied "butt" is virtually
> unconpromisable- you crimp the majority of other terminations in your
> system, so why is a butt splice unacceptable?
Good Morning Mark,
Interesting point.
The thing that interests me about using the crimp on pins is the ease of
disassembly by just cutting off the shrink wrap. That could be handy!
I think I would only use that technique where there is a possibility that
disassembly may be desired sometime in the future. Other than that, a
soldered butt splice is fine with me.
I have never used the technique, but would be willing to give it a try!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann@kyol.net>
Actually, this happened back in September2002, last of the month, so I
doubt it.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony
Babb
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tony Babb"
<tonybabb@alejandra.net>
Wasn't there a news item recently (in the past few days maybe a week or
so
back) about several million cc numbers being stolen from a cc servicing
company. Could be yours was one of them.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann@kyol.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein"
<kycshann@kyol.net>
>
> Bob, no need to get in a hissy, it's really no big deal. All I'm
saying
> is I hadn't used the card for several weeks, then I used it on a
> purchase from your non-secure site, and 3-4 days later I was getting a
> call from my CC company asking me about purchases. The perps had made
5
> or 6 purchases from strange places that didn't fit my pattern (I don't
> use the card much, so a lot of use quickly, from strange places
prompted
> them). So, my only conclusion was it happened from your site. I only
> use this card for airplane parts purchases (B&C and Aircraft Spruce
> basically is it), so I don't know how else it could have happened. I
> have another card I use for all my other personal stuff. The card I
> used was my AOPA card, and I only use it for airplane stuff.
>
> Anyway, I told the lady at B&C about it (very nice and helpful BTW),
and
> she said I was the first (and only as far as she knew) to have a
> problem. I'm sure I was the first, and probably will be the last, but
> who knows. I've ordered 2-3 times from B&C since and I just leave a
> note to call me for the card in the special instructions section.
>
> Again, no big deal. I just would suggest you fix it (like I suggested
> to her) or that you tell people to do the same as I do with a note to
> call.
>
> Now, it is certainly possible it was stolen another way several weeks
> before, but highly unlikely considering the circumstances. Like I've
> said before, its really not a big deal though.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 03:09 PM 2/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein"
> ><kycshann@kyol.net>
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >Not to discourage you or your site, but, my credit card number was
> >stolen while ordering from your site. I know it was your site
because
> >it is the only thing I had ordered within a several week period
around
> >the associated date.
>
>
> >No big deal, my CC company caught it, canceled it, and had me a new
one
> >in a couple days. Now I just leave instructions for B&C to call me
and
> >I'll give them the number. Words great. I would suggest other do
this
> >too, just to be safe.
>
> A single event? A stolen number generally gets a flood
> of activity. Do you recall the name of the company that
> posted the bogus charge?
>
> >However, just so you know, somebody is watching the site and grabbing
> >numbers somehow. I'll be the first to admit I have no idea how they
do
> >it, but I also know I didn't order anything else around that time, so
> it
> >was pretty much the only data point that it being stolen could be
> >attributed to.
>
> What makes you think the # wasn't acquired weeks or even
> months before/after your order? The card is used for nothing
> else other than ordering from AEC/B&C? You didn't go out
> to dinner and hand it to a waiter?
>
> I can understand how, based on what information you have,
> you might arrive at the conclusion you've cited . . .
> but without forensic data or confessions by perps, your
> conclusion is poorly founded.
>
> We are looking into adding encryption to the browser
> uplink . . . the prices have come down considerably
> since the last time I checked.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Secure site? WAY off topic |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann@kyol.net>
Do no archive
Well, whatever the case is, I apologize for saying anything. Last thing
I wanted to do was start another tissy on here. I was just relaying my
experience. I take it all back, and will just leave the listers with
this bit of advise: When you order something online with a credit card,
take all the precautions possible.
Now, forgive my ignorance, because, as usual, you obviously know more
about this as I do. Please explain to me, in your opinion, experience,
whatever, how you think my number was stolen. This really has me
concerned now, as I don't know how it happened. I looked up my
statement, and the last transaction before the B&C one was ~6 weeks
earlier to Aircraft Spruce (August). The transaction I made with you
was in late September. I received a call on October 1 reporting the
false charges (I remember the exact date because I was doing flight
training for my instrument rating I got on 10-2). Now, if there is no
possibility that this occurred when I ordered from you as you have
stated, what else could have happened to allow it to occur? I want to
know so I can be sure to protect myself in the future. All this online
ordering and throwing credit card numbers around sure is fast and
convenient, but now I'm really worried how to protect myself. I thought
I knew the culprit and how to protect myself from it, but if you say it
couldn't have been when I ordered from you, that leaves me with no idea
what happened, which really bothers me......
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:28 PM 2/24/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tony Babb"
<tonybabb@alejandra.net>
>
>Wasn't there a news item recently (in the past few days maybe a week or
so
>back) about several million cc numbers being stolen from a cc servicing
>company. Could be yours was one of them.
Nope. Card numbers are stored here behind two firewalls.
One which is hardware that filters off all protocols
for data transfer coming in from the 'net. Nobody taps
that machine from outside . . . not even me. The
book keeping machine is never used to download applications
that might contain trojans and the software firewall would
trap and flag those if they existed. Drives with
sensitive data are not shared on the local network nor
mapped to other computers.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann@kyol.net>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein"
><kycshann@kyol.net>
> >
> > Bob, no need to get in a hissy, it's really no big deal.
It's something of a "deal" when my system is tagged as "probable
cause"
with nothing other than commonality of numerous transactions
over a range of dates. Its like suggesting that I
was responsible for vandalizing my neighbor's garden
because I happen to own a shovel.
If my system had been breached, there should have been
hundreds of incidents with strong correlation to transactions
with B&C and/or AEC. Vulnerability of the computers
on which thousands of card numbers are stored
has no relationship to or benefit from having an
encrypted transaction between your browser and the
computer that hosts the website . . . and we're
looking at closing that very tiny porthole
soon.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Tyco EV200 power relay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alfred Buess" <Alfred.Buess@shl.bfh.ch>
Bob,
In my Rotax 912S electric power system, I'd like to replace the battery relay by
a Tyco EV200 power relay shown in http://www.ciitech.com/doc_generator.asp?doc_id=1280
. Reason: it has a hold power consumption of only 1.7 W at 12 VDC.
Do you see any reason for not using it in an OBAM Europa?
Thank you for your always helpful advices!
Alfred
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com
All TruTrak autopilots (according to the install manual) have audio alerter
signals from pin 13. It alerts loss of GPSS, glideslope capture, etc.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Secure site? WAY off topic |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DHPHKH@aol.com
Shannon,
First the obvious question, and please, no offense meant in asking; You
do have a firewall in place on your own computer? FWIW, I get pinged about
twice a day.
Dan
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Eric is aware of this problem with his web page and is working on it.
Do not archive
Cheers,
John
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Tyco EV200 power relay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns@hevanet.com>
Forgive me for butting in...
Check the recent archives. I posed nearly the same question to Bob in a
similar vein.
Bottom line: go for it, but the relay costs $80 as opposed to <$20 for
a standard contactor. If there's room on your cowling and big amps in your
load analysis,
the additional cost of the relay is probably better spent towards an
auxiliary vac pad
alternator like the SD-20.
Total system output is nearly double the 15A of the standard 912 alternator
system
and is more than plenty for most applications.
On the other hand, I'd enjoy the challenge of creating a high-capability,
low power drain
aircraft system with modern components, so an extra $60 for a low-power
battery contactor
could be worth it.
Shaun
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alfred Buess" <Alfred.Buess@shl.bfh.ch>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Tyco EV200 power relay
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alfred Buess"
<Alfred.Buess@shl.bfh.ch>
>
> Bob,
>
> In my Rotax 912S electric power system, I'd like to replace the battery
relay by a Tyco EV200 power relay shown in
http://www.ciitech.com/doc_generator.asp?doc_id=1280 . Reason: it has a hold
power consumption of only 1.7 W at 12 VDC. Do you see any reason for not
using it in an OBAM Europa?
> Thank you for your always helpful advices!
>
> Alfred
>
>
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:29 PM 2/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker"
><retasker@optonline.net>
>
>Does this URL actually do anything for you? I have both IE5.5 and
>Netscape 7 and the web site does nothing except display a rather
>rudimentary home page - no links do anything...
>
>Dick
I have WinXP/Netscape7.0 and IE6.0 . . . Netscape won't
pick the links out of his front page. IE6.0 will . . . when
he first put the site up, neither browser would pick the
links.
Just for grins, try viewing the front page's source code.
In Netscape, you click on "View" and then "Page Source", or
hit <ctrl>U from the keyboard. I think IE has a similar
feature.
I was astounded at the amount of code and specialized
commands imbedded in the formation of his front page.
It comes to about 69 Kbytes of stuff. My most complex webpage
is the B&C Catalog page and it's only 37 Kbytes.
I believe Eric's webcrafting was done on some kind
of turn-key Microsoft product, probably Front Page.
Those kinds of applications weren't around when I
set up aeroelectric.com. I was forced to learn
html coding to format a page . . . it's simple
language capable of some pretty whizzy things
(sorta like a modern, compiled BASIC). The problem
I've found with turn-key webcrafting applications
is that they put a LOT of code into your end product
that is beyond understanding given the time and effort
most folks have to invest in it. My pages are stone
simple by default . . . they contain no
features that fall outside the set of things I
needed (or was willing) to learn . . . and by
the same token, simpler to troubleshoot.
The end results can suffer from effects cited
by William of Occam who centuries ago observed,
"Things should not be unnecessarily multiplied."
Like Windows in general, Front Page is a very powerful
program that puts great capabilities in the hands
of neophytes. But when things don't work as
desired, one finds himself sitting at the controls
of a 747 with perhaps 100 hours experience in a
C-172. Yeah, we can navigate from point A to point
B in about ANYTHING that flies . . . but there's
potential for disappointment when things are
not working as expected.
Eric has a huge task ahead that will be handled
either by vertical integration of his personal
skills or horizontal integration of the skills
of other folk he chooses to tap for assistance.
Until you've been there, it's difficult to
appreciate what kind of a struggle this can
be.
Eric's labors are illustrative of the tasks
we face as system designers. And this is not
limited to the OBAM community. I've sat
in plenty of meetings rubbing elbows with
"the big guys" where many had that deer-in-
the-headlights expression as a new problem
was tossed out to the attendees with hopes
that someone present will offer insight.
It's instructive to observe the frustration
of higher level managers that try to balance
desires to off-load (horizontal integration)
with the need to understand and have some
control over our destiny (vertical integration).
We're in the horizontal creep mode at RAC right
now . . . I'm glad I don't have their jobs!
Explanation of the KISS principal often draws
giggles from the listener who just drove up
to your workshop in an automobile with
push-button everything, a webcam fitted
cellphone, a PDA that runs their lives and
a level of understanding that allows them to
use less than 10% of the capabilities of
the universal remote for their
TV/VCR/DVD/Cable boxes. But they BELIEVE
they are in control . . . until one of
those devices craps or produces unexpected
and unwanted results. (I cover some
buttons on my remotes with a blob of
epoxy lest they get punched in the dark
by accident - better to disable features
NOT needed to keep them from getting
in the way of what IS needed).
When I watch a well heeled professional
fly off in his new A-36 Bonanza, I gotta
say a little prayer that his experiences
match his expectations. As you consider
your future with an OBAM product, I'll
suggest that nothing will serve you better
than understanding how EVERYTHING works.
Got a call last evening to go out to flight
test and help with a little project on
our AGATE derivative Bonanza . . . glass
cockpit, fly by wire, auto-land, electronic highways
in the sky, all the goodies one might
imagine. Talk about dropping C-172 pilots
into a B-747 . . . this airplane proposes
to do exactly that! Fun stuff to work on
but it still gives me the shivers.
In the mean time, the least we can do
for Eric is encourage him on and patronize
his offerings when it makes sense for our
projects.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
Whoa... Bob.
Read it again. He wasn't talking about your site but "a cc servicing
company".
In other words a company which vendors connect to to do the transaction.
Finn
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>At 09:28 PM 2/24/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tony Babb" <tonybabb@alejandra.net>
>>
>>Wasn't there a news item recently (in the past few days maybe a week or so
>>back) about several million cc numbers being stolen from a cc servicing
>>company. Could be yours was one of them.
>>
>>
>
> Nope. Card numbers are stored here behind two firewalls.
> One which is hardware that filters off all protocols
> for data transfer coming in from the 'net. Nobody taps
> that machine from outside . . . not even me. The
> book keeping machine is never used to download applications
> that might contain trojans and the software firewall would
> trap and flag those if they existed. Drives with
> sensitive data are not shared on the local network nor
> mapped to other computers.
>
>
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann@kyol.net>
>>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein"
>>>
>>>
>><kycshann@kyol.net>
>>
>>
>>>Bob, no need to get in a hissy, it's really no big deal.
>>>
>>>
>
> It's something of a "deal" when my system is tagged as "probable cause"
> with nothing other than commonality of numerous transactions
> over a range of dates. Its like suggesting that I
> was responsible for vandalizing my neighbor's garden
> because I happen to own a shovel.
>
> If my system had been breached, there should have been
> hundreds of incidents with strong correlation to transactions
> with B&C and/or AEC. Vulnerability of the computers
> on which thousands of card numbers are stored
> has no relationship to or benefit from having an
> encrypted transaction between your browser and the
> computer that hosts the website . . . and we're
> looking at closing that very tiny porthole
> soon.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Off Topic - Lightning & dogs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:17 PM 2/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
>OFF TOPIC. DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>DELETE NOW, UNLESS YOU ARE CURIOUS.
>
>Not really RV related, but someone here may have the answer, so I
>thought I'd try.
>
>My canine underground fence (Contain-A-Pet brand) is continuously being
>zapped by lightning. There is a 2A fuse inside, but it's not blown. If
>I can wire an airplane, I should be able to service this! Anyone know
>where to begin? Warranty service is a pain.
Funny you should mention this . . . I was just invited
to sit in on some activities involving the certification
of Horizon with respect to lightning. Read a little about
this . . . qualified a few black boxes . . . but this will
be my first venture into the issues involved with a full-up
fight system.
When an airplane is struck by lighting, huge currents
(on the order of hundreds of thousands of amps) flow
though the airframe . . . the trick is to keep these
currents contained so that the don't flow IN vulnerable
systems and making sure the airframe is not unduly
compromised by the experience as. Relatively
easy on aluminum airplanes . . . a REALLY BIG task
on composites where sheet resistance of outside
skin is 1000 times that of aluminum.
What you're dealing with is a really large antenna
trying to do delicate command and control tasks
in an environment plagued by occasional electrical
avalanches of energy. There are devices designed to
help with this task whether you're herding dogs
or oil pressure signals. Could you convince the
manufacturer to share the schematic for their
gizmo with us? I can make some recommendations
that you (and perhaps they) would be interested
in to make their product more robust.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:53 PM 2/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DHPHKH@aol.com
>
>Gang,
> Nice idea about using d-sub pins and heat shrink for an inline splice in
>small wires. I wouldn't be concerned about heat shrink being an insecure
>locking device if you're using the good stuff with the hot melt adhesive
>coating on the inside.
>
>Dan
I've used d-sub pins exactly as you have described. They
are an excellent, low volume alternative to butt-splices
with the advantages of a knife splice. Obviously, the
BIG consideration is controlling installation of the
bundle to tightly control and limit TENSION on the
wires. But what you propose is quite rational.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:24 AM 2/25/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tony Babb" <tonybabb@alejandra.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>As I understand it the problem was that the company that services
>transactions was hacked, not your good self so even if you used one of those
>little machines that connects by telephone line to them, at some point the
>cc number ends up on the cc servicing company network, it has to so they can
>charge the card. No reflection on your own security but on the company that
>processes cc transactions for the banks.
Don't know details of how that works. We do manually enter
CC data on a telephone line connected terminal. Obviously,
there are many opportunities for compromise when you
have a byte-thrasher connected to the outside world
via phone lines and Internet connections. It's really
easy to become enamored of doing lots of things by
remote control and communication . . . but every porthole
that is opened to do good things is a potential
entry point for persons of dishonorable intent. The
best thing is to minimize portholes which is what
we try to do here.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:58 AM 2/25/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 2/25/2003 1:36:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>ripsteel@edge.net writes:
>
> >
> > I'd like to think a butt splice would be perfectly suitable- what is the
> > advantage gained by the pins? A properly applied "butt" is virtually
> > unconpromisable- you crimp the majority of other terminations in your
> > system, so why is a butt splice unacceptable?
> >
> > From The PossumWorks in TN
> > Mark
> >
>
>Mark,
>
>I agree. The key is a "properly crimped" butt splice. Butt splices in my
>experience have gotten a bad reputation due to the fact that extra care is
>needed to install one correctly. With a crimp-on terminal you can see the
>wire ends extend through the crimp zone. A butt splice takes more care to
>make the crimp in the correct area with the wire properly inserted.
AMP butt splices use a transparent jacket through which one may
observe and inspect captured wires for sufficient insertion. This
is the style of butt splice sold through the B&C catalog.
> Using
>the wrong size butt splice is a common mistake but that applies to any
>crimped terminal. A butt splice in a tied bundle is a source for wire
>chaffing. I would suppose the biggest objection is in the fact that a butt
>splice has little or no additional mechanical support other than at the crimp
>itself.
. . . Hmmmm . . . it's plastic rubbing against plastic. Similar
materials that are not mechanically antagonistic to each other.
If I were to survey "the big guys" as to desirability or
undesirability of butt splices, I think there would be consensus
on keeping such devices at a minimum (a product or process not
utilized cannot be a future failure point) and concerns about
adding bulk to a bundle. We have process rules at RAC that
limit the number of splices that can exist in any wire before
it is pulled out and replaced in its entirety.
The classic PIDG butt splice is seldom used for small wires
(22 and 20AWG) . . . there's a new product I've seen that
is very small diameter, un-insulated splice covered with
heat-shrinked jacket . . . MUCH smaller volume than the
PIDG product.
Bob . . .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:03 AM 2/25/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 2/25/03 12:36:48 AM Central Standard Time,
>ripsteel@edge.net writes:
>
> > I'd like to think a butt splice would be perfectly suitable- what is the
> > advantage gained by the pins? A properly applied "butt" is virtually
> > unconpromisable- you crimp the majority of other terminations in your
> > system, so why is a butt splice unacceptable?
>
>Good Morning Mark,
>
>Interesting point.
>
>The thing that interests me about using the crimp on pins is the ease of
>disassembly by just cutting off the shrink wrap. That could be handy!
THERE'S the real trick. Cutting the shrink off a small diameter
wire takes some care while wielding sharp tools. Butt splices
are simply cut out and the bundle gets a little shorter when
they are replaced. Getting the shrink off without damage to wire
is a skill to be mastered.
Bob . . .
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Off Topic - Lightning & dogs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Larry Bowen <lcbowen@yahoo.com>
I'll approach them about the idea, but they will really surprise me if they
accept.
Thanks,
LB
--- "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 11:17 PM 2/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
> >
> >OFF TOPIC. DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> >DELETE NOW, UNLESS YOU ARE CURIOUS.
> >
> >Not really RV related, but someone here may have the answer, so I
> >thought I'd try.
> >
> >My canine underground fence (Contain-A-Pet brand) is continuously being
> >zapped by lightning. There is a 2A fuse inside, but it's not blown. If
> >I can wire an airplane, I should be able to service this! Anyone know
> >where to begin? Warranty service is a pain.
>
>
> What you're dealing with is a really large antenna
> trying to do delicate command and control tasks
> in an environment plagued by occasional electrical
> avalanches of energy. There are devices designed to
> help with this task whether you're herding dogs
> or oil pressure signals. Could you convince the
> manufacturer to share the schematic for their
> gizmo with us? I can make some recommendations
> that you (and perhaps they) would be interested
> in to make their product more robust.
>
> Bob . . .
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Hibbing" <n744bh@bellsouth.net>
This is a strange situation. I've used cards on the internet for years and
never had a problem but the card that no one but me ever gets to see is
ripped off. There must be a number of ways that the thieves are getting the
info but the thing I wanted to point out here is if the dollar amount of the
theft gets into the $4,000 to 5,000 or better range, let the Secret Service
know about it. They are the agency that handles this type of crime.
Bill
Glasair
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com
I have used some small uninsulated butt connectors on my instrument panel
wiring. They are for 22-18 awg and only about 9/16" long and about 1/8" in
diameter. I can slip two 22 awg conductors in one end, and one out the other
end for combining two wires into a d-sub pin. A little white shrink wrap on
the outside and it's compact, solid, and pretty! The package is from
GC/Waldom, part # KS-1019. I picked them up at the local electronic supply
store.
Mike Easley
Colorado Springs
Lancair ES
Message 22
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| Subject: | Differential Radio Noise |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk@lmc.cc.mi.us>
Hi Folks,
Got a brief flash of warmth the other day so was able to go out to
the hangar and start fiddling with my radio noise problem.
Dang....it's still there. I did notice that there is quite a
noticeable difference between the noises coming out of the co-pilot
headphone jack as opposed to those coming out of the pilot jack. Used
the same headset and plugged into each. Co-pilot's side was much
quieter, both engine off and engine on. Has anyone else noticed such a
thing? Any ideas on how that might be happening?
Like most airplane builders, I enjoy problem-solving, but this is
getting ridiculous :)
Bill Yamokoski
Putting a muffler on the high rpm Subaru
Message 23
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
Yes, I am aware of this capability (looking at the source code) and have
done it to (laboriously) look at some of his pages.
Don't get me started on Microsoft and their products... Someone
indicated in a post somewhere that Eric said (how's that for indirect
information :-) ) he was using the built-in capabilities of Word and
Excel to create the web pages. That is a very bad way to create usable
web pages and will result in incompatibilities with even older Microsoft
products given their propensity to create file new formats all the time.
This is one of the reasons that you seem to be able to read it in IE6
while I cannot do so in IE5.5. This is absurd given the fact that code
generated for use on the web is supposed to use the standard HTML
command set to ensure compatibility.
All you say about his and your site is true - although not everyone has
the aptitude to learn HTML to do what you did :-) .
I hope Eric is reading this or someone tells him of this exchange. From
what I understand his products are useful and high quality, but he will
severely limit his market if his users cannot get the information. I
realize that he probably cannot afford to pay someone to create a snazzy
web site at this time. On the other hand, he doesn't need a snazzy web
site - just one that is usable. Hopefully he knows someone that would
be willing to help him get a web site together that is rudimentary but
readable rather than complex but not readable.
Dick Tasker
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>At 11:29 PM 2/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker"
>><retasker@optonline.net>
>>
>>Does this URL actually do anything for you? I have both IE5.5 and
>>Netscape 7 and the web site does nothing except display a rather
>>rudimentary home page - no links do anything...
>>
>>Dick
>>
>>
>
> I have WinXP/Netscape7.0 and IE6.0 . . . Netscape won't
> pick the links out of his front page. IE6.0 will . . . when
> he first put the site up, neither browser would pick the
> links.
>
> Just for grins, try viewing the front page's source code.
> In Netscape, you click on "View" and then "Page Source", or
> hit <ctrl>U from the keyboard. I think IE has a similar
> feature.
>
> I was astounded at the amount of code and specialized
> commands imbedded in the formation of his front page.
> It comes to about 69 Kbytes of stuff. My most complex webpage
> is the B&C Catalog page and it's only 37 Kbytes.
>
> I believe Eric's webcrafting was done on some kind
> of turn-key Microsoft product, probably Front Page.
> Those kinds of applications weren't around when I
> set up aeroelectric.com. I was forced to learn
> html coding to format a page . . . it's simple
> language capable of some pretty whizzy things
> (sorta like a modern, compiled BASIC). The problem
> I've found with turn-key webcrafting applications
> is that they put a LOT of code into your end product
> that is beyond understanding given the time and effort
> most folks have to invest in it. My pages are stone
> simple by default . . . they contain no
> features that fall outside the set of things I
> needed (or was willing) to learn . . . and by
> the same token, simpler to troubleshoot.
>
> The end results can suffer from effects cited
> by William of Occam who centuries ago observed,
> "Things should not be unnecessarily multiplied."
> Like Windows in general, Front Page is a very powerful
> program that puts great capabilities in the hands
> of neophytes. But when things don't work as
> desired, one finds himself sitting at the controls
> of a 747 with perhaps 100 hours experience in a
> C-172. Yeah, we can navigate from point A to point
> B in about ANYTHING that flies . . . but there's
> potential for disappointment when things are
> not working as expected.
>
> Eric has a huge task ahead that will be handled
> either by vertical integration of his personal
> skills or horizontal integration of the skills
> of other folk he chooses to tap for assistance.
> Until you've been there, it's difficult to
> appreciate what kind of a struggle this can
> be.
>
> Eric's labors are illustrative of the tasks
> we face as system designers. And this is not
> limited to the OBAM community. I've sat
> in plenty of meetings rubbing elbows with
> "the big guys" where many had that deer-in-
> the-headlights expression as a new problem
> was tossed out to the attendees with hopes
> that someone present will offer insight.
>
> It's instructive to observe the frustration
> of higher level managers that try to balance
> desires to off-load (horizontal integration)
> with the need to understand and have some
> control over our destiny (vertical integration).
> We're in the horizontal creep mode at RAC right
> now . . . I'm glad I don't have their jobs!
>
> Explanation of the KISS principal often draws
> giggles from the listener who just drove up
> to your workshop in an automobile with
> push-button everything, a webcam fitted
> cellphone, a PDA that runs their lives and
> a level of understanding that allows them to
> use less than 10% of the capabilities of
> the universal remote for their
> TV/VCR/DVD/Cable boxes. But they BELIEVE
> they are in control . . . until one of
> those devices craps or produces unexpected
> and unwanted results. (I cover some
> buttons on my remotes with a blob of
> epoxy lest they get punched in the dark
> by accident - better to disable features
> NOT needed to keep them from getting
> in the way of what IS needed).
>
> When I watch a well heeled professional
> fly off in his new A-36 Bonanza, I gotta
> say a little prayer that his experiences
> match his expectations. As you consider
> your future with an OBAM product, I'll
> suggest that nothing will serve you better
> than understanding how EVERYTHING works.
>
> Got a call last evening to go out to flight
> test and help with a little project on
> our AGATE derivative Bonanza . . . glass
> cockpit, fly by wire, auto-land, electronic highways
> in the sky, all the goodies one might
> imagine. Talk about dropping C-172 pilots
> into a B-747 . . . this airplane proposes
> to do exactly that! Fun stuff to work on
> but it still gives me the shivers.
>
> In the mean time, the least we can do
> for Eric is encourage him on and patronize
> his offerings when it makes sense for our
> projects.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: ectric-List: |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 2/24/03 1:58:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
retasker@optonline.net writes:
<< I have seen Eric Jones and his products mentioned several times, but
cannot find him on the web. Do you have a URL for him? >>
Sure: www.PerihelionDesign.com. Eric's got some good stuff on there. I
have installed his wig wag module that is the size and weight of one of those
purse sized aspirin containers ladies used to carry but will handle 250 watt
per side according to Eric (I don't plan to run mine with more than 100 watt
lights and more likely 55 watt lights). He's got lots of other electronic
goodies and is a nice guy to deal with. His direct E-mail is
emjones@charter.net.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, firewall forward
Message 25
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
I'm in the web software business and would be happy to make those pages
workable, for free.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Eric Jones
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
<retasker@optonline.net>
>
> Yes, I am aware of this capability (looking at the source code) and have
> done it to (laboriously) look at some of his pages.
>
> Don't get me started on Microsoft and their products... Someone
> indicated in a post somewhere that Eric said (how's that for indirect
> information :-) ) he was using the built-in capabilities of Word and
> Excel to create the web pages. That is a very bad way to create usable
> web pages and will result in incompatibilities with even older Microsoft
> products given their propensity to create file new formats all the time.
> This is one of the reasons that you seem to be able to read it in IE6
> while I cannot do so in IE5.5. This is absurd given the fact that code
> generated for use on the web is supposed to use the standard HTML
> command set to ensure compatibility.
>
> All you say about his and your site is true - although not everyone has
> the aptitude to learn HTML to do what you did :-) .
>
> I hope Eric is reading this or someone tells him of this exchange. From
> what I understand his products are useful and high quality, but he will
> severely limit his market if his users cannot get the information. I
> realize that he probably cannot afford to pay someone to create a snazzy
> web site at this time. On the other hand, he doesn't need a snazzy web
> site - just one that is usable. Hopefully he knows someone that would
> be willing to help him get a web site together that is rudimentary but
> readable rather than complex but not readable.
>
> Dick Tasker
>
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >
> >At 11:29 PM 2/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker"
> >><retasker@optonline.net>
> >>
> >>Does this URL actually do anything for you? I have both IE5.5 and
> >>Netscape 7 and the web site does nothing except display a rather
> >>rudimentary home page - no links do anything...
> >>
> >>Dick
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I have WinXP/Netscape7.0 and IE6.0 . . . Netscape won't
> > pick the links out of his front page. IE6.0 will . . . when
> > he first put the site up, neither browser would pick the
> > links.
> >
> > Just for grins, try viewing the front page's source code.
> > In Netscape, you click on "View" and then "Page Source", or
> > hit <ctrl>U from the keyboard. I think IE has a similar
> > feature.
> >
> > I was astounded at the amount of code and specialized
> > commands imbedded in the formation of his front page.
> > It comes to about 69 Kbytes of stuff. My most complex webpage
> > is the B&C Catalog page and it's only 37 Kbytes.
> >
> > I believe Eric's webcrafting was done on some kind
> > of turn-key Microsoft product, probably Front Page.
> > Those kinds of applications weren't around when I
> > set up aeroelectric.com. I was forced to learn
> > html coding to format a page . . . it's simple
> > language capable of some pretty whizzy things
> > (sorta like a modern, compiled BASIC). The problem
> > I've found with turn-key webcrafting applications
> > is that they put a LOT of code into your end product
> > that is beyond understanding given the time and effort
> > most folks have to invest in it. My pages are stone
> > simple by default . . . they contain no
> > features that fall outside the set of things I
> > needed (or was willing) to learn . . . and by
> > the same token, simpler to troubleshoot.
> >
> > The end results can suffer from effects cited
> > by William of Occam who centuries ago observed,
> > "Things should not be unnecessarily multiplied."
> > Like Windows in general, Front Page is a very powerful
> > program that puts great capabilities in the hands
> > of neophytes. But when things don't work as
> > desired, one finds himself sitting at the controls
> > of a 747 with perhaps 100 hours experience in a
> > C-172. Yeah, we can navigate from point A to point
> > B in about ANYTHING that flies . . . but there's
> > potential for disappointment when things are
> > not working as expected.
> >
> > Eric has a huge task ahead that will be handled
> > either by vertical integration of his personal
> > skills or horizontal integration of the skills
> > of other folk he chooses to tap for assistance.
> > Until you've been there, it's difficult to
> > appreciate what kind of a struggle this can
> > be.
> >
> > Eric's labors are illustrative of the tasks
> > we face as system designers. And this is not
> > limited to the OBAM community. I've sat
> > in plenty of meetings rubbing elbows with
> > "the big guys" where many had that deer-in-
> > the-headlights expression as a new problem
> > was tossed out to the attendees with hopes
> > that someone present will offer insight.
> >
> > It's instructive to observe the frustration
> > of higher level managers that try to balance
> > desires to off-load (horizontal integration)
> > with the need to understand and have some
> > control over our destiny (vertical integration).
> > We're in the horizontal creep mode at RAC right
> > now . . . I'm glad I don't have their jobs!
> >
> > Explanation of the KISS principal often draws
> > giggles from the listener who just drove up
> > to your workshop in an automobile with
> > push-button everything, a webcam fitted
> > cellphone, a PDA that runs their lives and
> > a level of understanding that allows them to
> > use less than 10% of the capabilities of
> > the universal remote for their
> > TV/VCR/DVD/Cable boxes. But they BELIEVE
> > they are in control . . . until one of
> > those devices craps or produces unexpected
> > and unwanted results. (I cover some
> > buttons on my remotes with a blob of
> > epoxy lest they get punched in the dark
> > by accident - better to disable features
> > NOT needed to keep them from getting
> > in the way of what IS needed).
> >
> > When I watch a well heeled professional
> > fly off in his new A-36 Bonanza, I gotta
> > say a little prayer that his experiences
> > match his expectations. As you consider
> > your future with an OBAM product, I'll
> > suggest that nothing will serve you better
> > than understanding how EVERYTHING works.
> >
> > Got a call last evening to go out to flight
> > test and help with a little project on
> > our AGATE derivative Bonanza . . . glass
> > cockpit, fly by wire, auto-land, electronic highways
> > in the sky, all the goodies one might
> > imagine. Talk about dropping C-172 pilots
> > into a B-747 . . . this airplane proposes
> > to do exactly that! Fun stuff to work on
> > but it still gives me the shivers.
> >
> > In the mean time, the least we can do
> > for Eric is encourage him on and patronize
> > his offerings when it makes sense for our
> > projects.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Firewall pass-through protection hardware |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Guys, I saw this on Doug Reeves' website this morning and thought I'd post it here
for those of you who aren't RV builders and probably didn't see it. Since
the topic of how to protect wire bundles through the firewall while maintaining
the integrity of the firewall has been discussed here before I thought it was
relevant. You can see the text and pictures at:
http://members6.clubphoto.com/doug412210/1161024/guest.phtml
Here's the text for the archives:
Firewall Penetrations
Firewall Penetrations-by Vern Darley (vern@mindspring.com)
Years ago,I was an Air Force Force pilot and had a jet engine throw a compressor
blade thru the
cockpit and hit the side of the ejection seat. The cockpit immediately filled with
intense heat
and I was solid IFR with dense white smoke inside the cockpit. In another type
of AF plane,I
once experienced an electrical fire in the cockpit. In college,I worked parting
out crashed
light aircraft at an FBO. Lately,I've wandered around aircraft junkyards scrounging
parts. All
of these experiences have made me accutely aware of how much I want to keep fire
out of my RV
cockpit.
In the RV world,there are four main penetrations through our firewalls: engine
controls,fuel
lines, wiring, and cabin heat/air. Due to their small size and the availability
of
'eyeballs',etc. engine controls are not a big threat to us. The fuel line penetration
is
normally handled by a through-the-firewall fitting. So, there remain two main threats
to our
health and safety: the wiring bundles and the cabin heat/air.
Typically, most builders seem to opt for the rubber grommet and a dab of RTV for
the wires,and
depend on the aluminum cabin heat devices that Vans and others market to cover
the
two-inch-or-so firewall penetration for air. In my opinion, the aluminum devices
are inadequate
protection to keep fire on the engine side of my RV. In searching for solutions,
I found a new
company that has helped me solve these problems. I asked them for data,and Paul
Bowmar, director
of R&D provided me with a video of a recent test he conducted on aluminum vs.stainless
firewall
penetration devices. His company,EPM.AV Corporation, has developed a beautiful
stainless version
of the airbox most RVs need and has also manufactured various size wiring pass
throughs.He has
also tested various compounds that seal the wire bundles.
In the tests, a standard aluminum RV style vent was subjected to a flame source
at the 1600-1800
degree range that one would get in a fuel fire in a flying RV. The aluminum vent
melted like wax
within ten seconds! Even with a stainless flapper installed, this would not have
protected us
since the flapper would simply fall away when the supporting aluminum structure
melted. Tests on
an all stainless version of the same airbox endured extended direct flames with
no damage for
the duration of the test. Tests with wire penetrations yielded similar results
and pointed out
the need to use top grade wire and insulation for your through-the-firewall wiring.
I've since
bought actual products and am happy to report first class workmanship and to recommend
their new
products to my fellow RV'ers.
Fly safe!
Vern Darley
6A slowbuild
Peachtree City, Ga
Message 27
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| Subject: | Dynon Beta testers, anyone?? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Guys,
I'm one of the masses eagerly awaiting the Dynon EFIS D-10 that is supposed to
be available shortly. Before I send them my money, however, I think it would
be nice to hear from someone who is not a Dynon employee who has flown with the
unit...always nice to get a review from somebody with a different perspective
and hopefully as unbiased as possible...at least without a conflict of interest!
A while back there was talk of Dynon sending out beta test units to a few people.
Is anybody out there a participant, or know of anyone who is? I expect Dynon
may have made a beta tester sign some sort of nondisclosure agreement during
the test phase to allow them to sort out any problems without negative press,
but at some point we should be able to hear from those folks...
I also asked Dynon about this and have not received a response yet...will post
it if I get any information. I'd encourage others interested in seeing a 3rd
party review of the unit to contact Dynon expressing this desire...write them
at info@dynondevelopment.com
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D firewall forward and wiring...
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: AMP CPC or Equivalent Connectors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Bob - I was interested in your comments below about how versatile D-sub
connectors are.
I have always discarded the idea of running the strobe wires - power supply
to head - through one of these assuming they would not take the voltage.
However I do not know what voltage is in those wires. Am I correct, or could
some like AMP/Tyco's HDP-22 take it?
What I would like to do is put one connector in the rear fuse for strobe /
MAC servo/ Tail light disconect.
Thanks, Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AMP CPC or Equivalent Connectors
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:25 AM 2/18/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DHPHKH@aol.com
>
>Bob and Gang,
> Discussion of connectors raises an interesting thought; don't think
> I've
>ever seen a good article on multi-wire plug connectors, and the selection
of
>a particular type for a particular application. Electronics guys know the
>details because they've worked with them for years. The rest of us pick up
a
>Digi-Key catalog or similar, find a jaw-dropping selection, and groan.
> Need examples? When does one use a Molex connector vs a D-sub?
D-subs are the first connector I consider for any new application.
Check out this picture:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/power_dist.jpg
This is a "tall" picture . . . so scroll down to
see the bottom half.
Message 29
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
His email address is: emjones@charter.net
I suspect that he would be interested. I certainly would be since then
I could see the parts he sells!
Dick Tasker
Bill Steer wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
>
>I'm in the web software business and would be happy to make those pages
>workable, for free.
>
>Bill
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Eric Jones
>
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
>>
>>
><retasker@optonline.net>
>
>
>>Yes, I am aware of this capability (looking at the source code) and have
>>done it to (laboriously) look at some of his pages.
>>
>>Don't get me started on Microsoft and their products... Someone
>>indicated in a post somewhere that Eric said (how's that for indirect
>>information :-) ) he was using the built-in capabilities of Word and
>>Excel to create the web pages. That is a very bad way to create usable
>>web pages and will result in incompatibilities with even older Microsoft
>>products given their propensity to create file new formats all the time.
>> This is one of the reasons that you seem to be able to read it in IE6
>>while I cannot do so in IE5.5. This is absurd given the fact that code
>>generated for use on the web is supposed to use the standard HTML
>>command set to ensure compatibility.
>>
>>All you say about his and your site is true - although not everyone has
>>the aptitude to learn HTML to do what you did :-) .
>>
>>I hope Eric is reading this or someone tells him of this exchange. From
>>what I understand his products are useful and high quality, but he will
>>severely limit his market if his users cannot get the information. I
>>realize that he probably cannot afford to pay someone to create a snazzy
>>web site at this time. On the other hand, he doesn't need a snazzy web
>>site - just one that is usable. Hopefully he knows someone that would
>>be willing to help him get a web site together that is rudimentary but
>>readable rather than complex but not readable.
>>
>>Dick Tasker
>>
>>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>>>
>>>
><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>
>>>At 11:29 PM 2/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker"
>>>><retasker@optonline.net>
>>>>
>>>>Does this URL actually do anything for you? I have both IE5.5 and
>>>>Netscape 7 and the web site does nothing except display a rather
>>>>rudimentary home page - no links do anything...
>>>>
>>>>Dick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I have WinXP/Netscape7.0 and IE6.0 . . . Netscape won't
>>> pick the links out of his front page. IE6.0 will . . . when
>>> he first put the site up, neither browser would pick the
>>> links.
>>>
>>> Just for grins, try viewing the front page's source code.
>>> In Netscape, you click on "View" and then "Page Source", or
>>> hit <ctrl>U from the keyboard. I think IE has a similar
>>> feature.
>>>
>>> I was astounded at the amount of code and specialized
>>> commands imbedded in the formation of his front page.
>>> It comes to about 69 Kbytes of stuff. My most complex webpage
>>> is the B&C Catalog page and it's only 37 Kbytes.
>>>
>>> I believe Eric's webcrafting was done on some kind
>>> of turn-key Microsoft product, probably Front Page.
>>> Those kinds of applications weren't around when I
>>> set up aeroelectric.com. I was forced to learn
>>> html coding to format a page . . . it's simple
>>> language capable of some pretty whizzy things
>>> (sorta like a modern, compiled BASIC). The problem
>>> I've found with turn-key webcrafting applications
>>> is that they put a LOT of code into your end product
>>> that is beyond understanding given the time and effort
>>> most folks have to invest in it. My pages are stone
>>> simple by default . . . they contain no
>>> features that fall outside the set of things I
>>> needed (or was willing) to learn . . . and by
>>> the same token, simpler to troubleshoot.
>>>
>>> The end results can suffer from effects cited
>>> by William of Occam who centuries ago observed,
>>> "Things should not be unnecessarily multiplied."
>>> Like Windows in general, Front Page is a very powerful
>>> program that puts great capabilities in the hands
>>> of neophytes. But when things don't work as
>>> desired, one finds himself sitting at the controls
>>> of a 747 with perhaps 100 hours experience in a
>>> C-172. Yeah, we can navigate from point A to point
>>> B in about ANYTHING that flies . . . but there's
>>> potential for disappointment when things are
>>> not working as expected.
>>>
>>> Eric has a huge task ahead that will be handled
>>> either by vertical integration of his personal
>>> skills or horizontal integration of the skills
>>> of other folk he chooses to tap for assistance.
>>> Until you've been there, it's difficult to
>>> appreciate what kind of a struggle this can
>>> be.
>>>
>>> Eric's labors are illustrative of the tasks
>>> we face as system designers. And this is not
>>> limited to the OBAM community. I've sat
>>> in plenty of meetings rubbing elbows with
>>> "the big guys" where many had that deer-in-
>>> the-headlights expression as a new problem
>>> was tossed out to the attendees with hopes
>>> that someone present will offer insight.
>>>
>>> It's instructive to observe the frustration
>>> of higher level managers that try to balance
>>> desires to off-load (horizontal integration)
>>> with the need to understand and have some
>>> control over our destiny (vertical integration).
>>> We're in the horizontal creep mode at RAC right
>>> now . . . I'm glad I don't have their jobs!
>>>
>>> Explanation of the KISS principal often draws
>>> giggles from the listener who just drove up
>>> to your workshop in an automobile with
>>> push-button everything, a webcam fitted
>>> cellphone, a PDA that runs their lives and
>>> a level of understanding that allows them to
>>> use less than 10% of the capabilities of
>>> the universal remote for their
>>> TV/VCR/DVD/Cable boxes. But they BELIEVE
>>> they are in control . . . until one of
>>> those devices craps or produces unexpected
>>> and unwanted results. (I cover some
>>> buttons on my remotes with a blob of
>>> epoxy lest they get punched in the dark
>>> by accident - better to disable features
>>> NOT needed to keep them from getting
>>> in the way of what IS needed).
>>>
>>> When I watch a well heeled professional
>>> fly off in his new A-36 Bonanza, I gotta
>>> say a little prayer that his experiences
>>> match his expectations. As you consider
>>> your future with an OBAM product, I'll
>>> suggest that nothing will serve you better
>>> than understanding how EVERYTHING works.
>>>
>>> Got a call last evening to go out to flight
>>> test and help with a little project on
>>> our AGATE derivative Bonanza . . . glass
>>> cockpit, fly by wire, auto-land, electronic highways
>>> in the sky, all the goodies one might
>>> imagine. Talk about dropping C-172 pilots
>>> into a B-747 . . . this airplane proposes
>>> to do exactly that! Fun stuff to work on
>>> but it still gives me the shivers.
>>>
>>> In the mean time, the least we can do
>>> for Eric is encourage him on and patronize
>>> his offerings when it makes sense for our
>>> projects.
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jaye and Scott Jackson <jayeandscott@shaw.ca>
AM
Subject: Columbia
This is the absolute best information package that I have seen yet, be
sure to let all of
the animations load and watch all of them,,,,,,,This is unbelievable ! !
Subject: Columbia
http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/news/gra/gshuttle_disaster/flash.htm
Message 31
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: David Chalmers <David@ctsinternational.com>
I just talked to them about this. Only the DFC series has audio on pin 13.
Digitrak and DigiFlight do not have audio out.
-----Original Message-----
From: MikeEasley@aol.com [mailto:MikeEasley@aol.com]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: TruTrak Sounds
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com
All TruTrak autopilots (according to the install manual) have audio alerter
signals from pin 13. It alerts loss of GPSS, glideslope capture, etc.
Message 32
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Freddie Freeloader <lists@stevet.net>
Hello Richard,
Another option is to download Mozilla
(http://www.mozilla.org) and install it, for free. This is
the open source version of Netscape. It has a built-in web
development capability called "Composer." It's not flashy,
but it works and it will display on all browsers.
Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 10:42:03 AM, you wrote:
-->> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
RT> His email address is: emjones@charter.net
RT> I suspect that he would be interested. I certainly would be since then
RT> I could see the parts he sells!
RT> Dick Tasker
RT> Bill Steer wrote:
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
>>
>>I'm in the web software business and would be happy to make those pages
>>workable, for free.
>>
>>Bill
--
Best regards,
Freddie mailto:lists@stevet.net
Message 33
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
I am aware of this already, but I am not the one with a web site that
needs work...
Eric Jones is.
Freddie Freeloader wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Freddie Freeloader <lists@stevet.net>
>
>Hello Richard,
>
>Another option is to download Mozilla
>(http://www.mozilla.org) and install it, for free. This is
>the open source version of Netscape. It has a built-in web
>development capability called "Composer." It's not flashy,
>but it works and it will display on all browsers.
>
>Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 10:42:03 AM, you wrote:
>
>-->> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>
>RT> His email address is: emjones@charter.net
>
>RT> I suspect that he would be interested. I certainly would be since then
>RT> I could see the parts he sells!
>
>RT> Dick Tasker
>
>
>RT> Bill Steer wrote:
>
>
>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
>>>
>>>I'm in the web software business and would be happy to make those pages
>>>workable, for free.
>>>
>>>Bill
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 charge light |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shay King" <shaking@eircom.net>
Dear list,
I posted about this topic a while ago and I still haven't found what I need.
The wiring diag. for the Rotax 912s specifies a 12v. 3watt bulb to be used as the
charge ind. light. I can't find a bulb and holder of this kind anywhere.
I've tried RadioShack,Aircraft Spruce, Aeroelectric, Terminal Town and local electronics
stores to no avail.
I have two bulb holders I got from salvage. One has a GE331 bulb with no indication
of what voltage or wattage it is. The other has a 12v / 2 watt bulb which
is the closest I've come to the correct spec.
Has anyone wired up this light and what kind of bulb did you use? Is the 3 watt
rating crucial for operation of ther charge lamp?
Any help appreciated.
Regards,
Shay King.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Dynon Beta testers--reply from Dynon |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Guys, this just in from Gillian at Dynon....answered my question. Guess we'll
have to wait for some of you jocks who are already flying to get a unit and tell
us how you like it...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D wiring and FWF...
------------------------------------------------------
Mark,
All testing to this point has been done with people closely connected with
the company. We hope to see "flying reports" from people not connected with
the company shortly after the first units ship.
By-the-way, our warranty includes a 90 day, money back, no questions asked
clause. Of course, the unit will have to not be damaged, but it will give
you a chance to review the unit.
Thank you for your continued interest.
Gillian C. D'Ancicco
Business Manager
Dynon Development Inc.
19501 144th Ave NE
Suite C-500
Woodinville, WA 98072
(425)402-4404 Phone (425)984-1751 Fax
-----Original Message-----
From: menavrat@rockwellcollins.com [mailto:menavrat@rockwellcollins.com]
Subject: EFIS D-10 beta testing reports?
Hi Gillian,
Are there any beta testers or non-Dynon individuals out there who have used
the EFIS D-10 in flight who can vouch for it to work "as advertised"? Just
curious because I thought there was going to be some folks beta testing the
unit before deliveries started but haven't heard from anyone like this.
<snip>
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D wiring right now....
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N823ms@aol.com
Mike:
Hello. I do not remember seeing your name here before. I am building a
Lancair ES. Live outside of Memphis in a Town called Collierville. I a just
beginning to wire install gauges in my panel. Interested in that kit you
described. Is the product you bought made by a national company, perhaps at a
local electrical supply house may have it here. Would love to see some photos
of the back just to get routing ideas.
Thanks,
Ed Silvanic
N823MS@aol.com
Message 37
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Dear Bill -
Your generous offer to help another member of this community is certainly one of
the finer examples of what this hobby is all about. Many thanks, on behalf of
the all who depend on the list for wisdom. Eric is offering some exciting stuff
and I'm sure he'd rather work on that end of the problem.
Sincerely,
John Schroeder
Do not archive.
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
>
>I'm in the web software business and would be happy to make those pages
>workable, for free.
>
>Bill
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Beta testers, anyone?? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N823ms@aol.com
Mark:
They will begin sending out units March 3rd. They are happy with there
final testing. Beta test units are available, however, I did not apply as
thay want aircraft that are flying. I have not heard of anymore units that
have been handed out.
Ed
Message 39
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| Subject: | Circuit Breakers |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tom Brusehaver <cozytom@mn.rr.com>
I couldn't believe it, but they seem to be
real. Circuit breakers that plug into the
blade fuse blocks!
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page107.html
They are cheap too ($3.95!) Don't think they'll
end up in my plane tho.
Message 40
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| Subject: | N2GX Fist Flight |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gabe and Marisol Ferrer" <ferrergm@bellsouth.net>
I flew RV6 N2GX for the first time today.
Uneventful, except for the unlocked canopy.
Thanks to all in the Aeroelectric list. I've learned much from you.
Special thanks to Bob Nuckolls. Your book has been most informative.
Your willingness to share your experiences is admirable.
Incidentally I spent close to six months (5 days a week) wiring my IFR
panel.
Gabe A Ferrer
RV6 N2GX. 2 hours. South Florida
ferrergm@bellsouth.net
Cell: 561 758 8894
Night or FAX: 561 622 0960
Message 41
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| Subject: | RE: AMP CPC or Equivalent Connectors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:10 PM 2/25/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
><SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
>Bob - I was interested in your comments below about how versatile D-sub
>connectors are.
>
>I have always discarded the idea of running the strobe wires - power supply
>to head - through one of these assuming they would not take the voltage.
>However I do not know what voltage is in those wires. Am I correct, or could
>some like AMP/Tyco's HDP-22 take it?
I wouldn't put high voltage on these connectors. The
connectors would be just fine . . . for awhile. They
are not designed to ward off effects of environmental
contamination that promotes breakdown and arcing between
closely spaced terminals. Stay with the fat-wire (.093" pins)
white nylon connectors as the low cost solution for
this one application.
I design the d-subs into systems at 30 volts and below.
Bob . . .
Message 42
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| Subject: | N2GX Fist Flight |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
> I flew RV6 N2GX for the first time today.
Congrats, Gabe, from another S. Floridian.
I'm curious - where did the fist fight come in? Deciding who gets to fly the
second flight?
John Slade
Cozy IV
West Palm
Message 43
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:17 PM 2/25/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
><retasker@optonline.net>
>
>Yes, I am aware of this capability (looking at the source code) and have
>done it to (laboriously) look at some of his pages.
<snip>
>All you say about his and your site is true - although not everyone has
>the aptitude to learn HTML to do what you did :-) .
It didn't take long. I ripped off some simple pages from
the 'net, bought an HTML for Dummies book that did a good
job explaining about 20 commands that cover 99% of your
needs. Spent a weekend experimenting with the effects of
changes to the ripped pages. Rudimentary .html ain't that
hard.
>I hope Eric is reading this or someone tells him of this exchange. From
>what I understand his products are useful and high quality, but he will
>severely limit his market if his users cannot get the information. I
>realize that he probably cannot afford to pay someone to create a snazzy
>web site at this time. On the other hand, he doesn't need a snazzy web
>site - just one that is usable. Hopefully he knows someone that would
>be willing to help him get a web site together that is rudimentary but
>readable rather than complex but not readable.
I've been bugging him to get "on the 'net" and even suggested
that he rip my webpages to get started. I've suggest to more
than one OBAM aircraft builder to get the airplane flying
in the J-3 mode first. Get your 25/40 hours flown off. Once
the nosey folks are satisfied and go away, then work incrementally
toward the machine of your dreams but never in such big steps
that the airplane is down for more than a week or so. This
way you get the benefits of being able to go flying while
the phase-two details are worked out.
One could build a website the same way. It wouldn't take
but a couple of hours to clone my website and trim it
to get Eric's stuff out for the world to see and order.
Adding the fancier features can be saved for cold winter
nights when there's nothing better to do.
Saw another post where Bill Steer offered to help.
Thanks Bill.
Bob . . .
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Circuit Breakers |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:06 PM 2/25/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tom Brusehaver <cozytom@mn.rr.com>
>
>
>I couldn't believe it, but they seem to be
>real. Circuit breakers that plug into the
>blade fuse blocks!
Been around for years . . .
> http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page107.html
>
>They are cheap too ($3.95!) Don't think they'll
>end up in my plane tho.
Wouldn't end up in my plane either . . .
Bob . . .
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 charge light |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:03 PM 2/25/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shay King" <shaking@eircom.net>
>
>Dear list,
>I posted about this topic a while ago and I still haven't found what I need.
>The wiring diag. for the Rotax 912s specifies a 12v. 3watt bulb to be used
>as the charge ind. light. I can't find a bulb and holder of this kind
>anywhere. I've tried RadioShack,Aircraft Spruce, Aeroelectric, Terminal
>Town and local electronics stores to no avail.
>I have two bulb holders I got from salvage. One has a GE331 bulb with no
>indication of what voltage or wattage it is. The other has a 12v / 2 watt
>bulb which is the closest I've come to the correct spec.
>
>Has anyone wired up this light and what kind of bulb did you use? Is the
>3 watt rating crucial for operation of ther charge lamp?
No, any 12v lamp will work. 3W or .250 mA is a MAX rating.
But you could leave this lamp out completely in favor
of active notification of low voltage which is a much
more definitive notification of alternator failure than
any of the common warning lights built into regulators.
Bob . . .
Message 46
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| Subject: | Dynon Beta testers--reply from Dynon |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim V. Wickert" <JimW_btg@compuserve.com>
One important point to understand with this statement is they are and have
been very honest with everyone on product results, delivery, development
and testing to date results. In our industry what more can we ask for but
this??
Jim Wickert
Vision #159
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