Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:28 AM - Message resend Sheild Termination/ Power cable (Don Boardman)
2. 03:54 AM - Re: Re: Wire Splicing (Mark Phillips)
3. 04:45 AM - Re: Rotax 912 charge light (Billie Lamb)
4. 05:54 AM - Eric Jones (Eric M. Jones)
5. 06:00 AM - splices (Gary Casey)
6. 06:09 AM - regulator/charging voltage questions (Bob Japundza)
7. 06:20 AM - Re: battery charger (James Robinson)
8. 08:14 AM - Re: secure transactions (Rob Logan)
9. 11:44 AM - Re: Re: AMP CPC or Equivalent Connectors (Steve Sampson)
10. 12:18 PM - Re: battery charger (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 05:15 PM - Connectors (PreDial@aol.com)
12. 07:48 PM - Design brainstorming - help, please? (richard@riley.net)
13. 08:28 PM - Re: Design brainstorming - help, please? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 08:58 PM - Re: Design brainstorming - help, please? (James Freeman)
15. 09:39 PM - Re: Design brainstorming - help, please? (Richard E. Tasker)
16. 11:09 PM - Re: Design brainstorming - help, please? (richard@riley.net)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Message resend Sheild Termination/ Power cable |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
Hi Bob,
My partner faxed you copies of the wire diagrams on Saturday in the event
mine from earlier in the week did not make it.
I am re-posting the questions in the chance you still don't have the
originals.
> Hi Bob,
>>
>> The shields for the mic and phone inputs and then the outputs to the com
>> radios for my PMA4000 Audio Panel/Intercom are shown terminated to "Lo" at
>> the intercom only. Fine. The outputs are shown going to Com 1 and Com 2 and
>> the shield is left unconnected. The unswitched audio connection to the GPS
>> is also shown grounded only at the intercom, fine.
>>
>> The problem ... the wire diagram for the Icom radios show the mic and phone
>> shields making a connection at the radio, actually it looks like they are
>> using a single shielded conductor and using the shield as the ground/return
>> wire. The GPS also shows the audio to the intercom with the shield
>> terminated at the GPS end.
>>
>> Do I need to make some phone calls?
>
> It wouldn't hurt . . . but if you've deduced that some shields
> are attached at both ends for the purposes of providing
> ground return, then a double ended connection makes
> sense. I'm mystified by the shields with NO connection,
> I would return these to ground at the black box where
> the center conductors provide INPUTS.
>
> Can you scan/mail or fax me copies of the drawings?
> It's always easier to sort these things out when
> we're both looking at the same pieces of paper.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob, I will fax copies to 316-685-8617.
I am heading over to the workshop, will send them after lunch.
I have used three conductor shielded wire for both mic and audio runs as it
made economical sense to go this way.
I must have miscommunicated. None of the shields are left hanging at both
ends. It is just that PS Engineering shows termination at there unit only
and the GPS and Coms show termination at there end.
Don
Hi Bob,
Faxed you the wire diagrams and an antenna "farm" consideration this
afternoon. I hope it all came through I was using my sisters fax and am a
rookie at it.
In the process of faxing I had the pleasure of talking with a very pleasant
and upbeat lady ... thank her for me for being so patient.
Note on the Icom page under Power cable wiring, the statement "Use 2 pairs
of #18 wires for power and power grounding wiring. 2 pairs? I am not sure
what they mean. Use 2 separate conductors for power ... one to pin 14 and
the other to pin R and then tie them together at the fuse? The ground pins
6-15-F- S ... a pair of conductors to ground these pins?????
I have also added the pin numbers on the Icom sheet that I feel will hook up
with the pins on the intercom. I hope my notations are clear.
Thanks much,
Don
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
> Mark, do possums really do any work?
>
> John P. Marzluf
> Columbus, Ohio
> Outback, (out back in the garage)
'Round these parts they stay busy testing drivers' reflexes- there is evidence
they occasionally test tires & suspension systems, but usually that's a one-splat
affair...
8-)
Mark Phillips
Columbia, TN
Outyonder (in The PossumWorks) - do not archive -
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 charge light |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Billie Lamb" <N254BL@cfl.rr.com>
According to my handy pocket reference (from Harbor Freight) the GE331 lamp
Shay is questioning is rated at 1.35 volts .06 amps.
Bill Lamb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Rotax 912 charge light
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 09:03 PM 2/25/2003 +0000, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shay King" <shaking@eircom.net>
> >
> >Dear list,
> >I posted about this topic a while ago and I still haven't found what I
need.
> >The wiring diag. for the Rotax 912s specifies a 12v. 3watt bulb to be
used
> >as the charge ind. light. I can't find a bulb and holder of this kind
> >anywhere. I've tried RadioShack,Aircraft Spruce, Aeroelectric, Terminal
> >Town and local electronics stores to no avail.
> >I have two bulb holders I got from salvage. One has a GE331 bulb with no
> >indication of what voltage or wattage it is. The other has a 12v / 2
watt
> >bulb which is the closest I've come to the correct spec.
> >
> >Has anyone wired up this light and what kind of bulb did you use? Is the
> >3 watt rating crucial for operation of ther charge lamp?
>
> No, any 12v lamp will work. 3W or .250 mA is a MAX rating.
> But you could leave this lamp out completely in favor
> of active notification of low voltage which is a much
> more definitive notification of alternator failure than
> any of the common warning lights built into regulators.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Hey don't wear it out, that's my name.
Yes, I know my website has a problem with the Ms Web wizard stuff and Netscape
stuff. I am recreating the whole thing so that Netscape and Opera and six or seven
other "off-brand" (just kidding) browsers can read it.
In the meantime...folks with Ms products won't have much problem. I checked this
thing on several Windows computers with few issues, then people running Netcape
3.0 Linux on Apple 4 computers started to complain...yikes!
Thanks for the encouragement and the kind words. Have faith.....soon.....
www.PerihelionProducts.com
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual
who perceives a solution and is willing to take command.
Very often, that individual is crazy.
--Dave Barry
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
<< Nice idea about using d-sub pins and heat shrink for an inline splice
in
>small wires.>>
For what is worth, in situations like this I usually double the wire back
over the "splice", making an "S" out of it and then heat-shrink the whole
thing. Makes more of a lump in the wiring, but totally eliminates any
tensile load on the connection. I do the same thing if I have to put a
diode in-line without support.
Gary Casey
Message 6
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| Subject: | regulator/charging voltage questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob Japundza <bjapundza@yahoo.com>
Hi Bob,
I have a small Denso alternator that is indentical in
form-factor to the B&C alternator but it has the
built-in regulator. I have a lightweight 17ah
Panasonic battery that I believe will be adequate to
turn over my IO-540. This battery has the same specs
as the Odyssey but only cost $36. In the battery
datasheet Panasonic specifies a charging voltage of
14.5-14.9 volts. I noticed that the Odyssey specs are
based on a 14.7v charging voltage. At this point I am
going to disable the internal regulator so I can use
an adjustable external regulator and OV protection
without a contactor. With this in mind I have a few
questions:
1. Other than maybe a slight reduction in the lifespan
of incandescent bulbs, do you see any problems with
running the electrical system at 14.5? I assume the
13.8 volt systems were set at that voltage because
that is the ideal voltage for normal (i.e., non-rg or
vented batteries?)
2. Is the difference noticable between linear
regulators such as the B&C and cheap switching-type
regulators you can buy at Autozone, as far as
electrical system noise goes?
3. With the battery in back, and the alternator in
front, I assume the place for the regulator would be
as close to the alternator as possible?
4. I haven't opened up my alternator yet, but other
than making sure all diodes are connected to the
ground and power lug respectively, is there any advice
you could offer when disabling the internal regulator?
Thanks in advance,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying, F1 QB under const.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: battery charger |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: James Robinson <jbr@hitechnetworks.net>
Bob
Do you have any recomendations for a good battery charger for the sealed batteries.
Jim Robinson
Glasair 79R nearing first flight
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: secure transactions |
|July 24, 2002) at 02/26/2003 11:12:38 AM,
Serialize by Router on mtasmtp2-clev/P/SERVER/PHILIPS-CLE(Release 5.0.11
|July
24, 2002) at 02/26/2003 11:13:11 AM,
Serialize complete at 02/26/2003 11:13:11 AM
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rob Logan <Rob@Logan.com>
As the owner of an ISP, the risk of "snooping" the wire
is greatest on a cable modem line or co-hosting site
that use hubs rather than switches for clients (rare).
as the pipes come together and get fatter it get
harder to tap, and the cpu required to "snoop" goes
up a huge amount.
the "risk" is much greater protecting the accounting
system, or the transaction house.
I still send my credit card number over clear text email
or web when ever required..
-- Source of Credit Card Security Breach Disclosed
(18/19 February 2003)
The locus of the massive credit card security breach has been traced
to a computer system at Omaha-based Data Processors International,
a company that handles credit card transactions for catalogs and
direct marketers. It appears the security breach was launched from
the outside; information is being analyzed to see if there is a
trail that will lead to the hacker. Data Processors International
also handles American Express accounts. There have been no reported
cases of credit card fraud so far, and it isn't clear if the hacker
actually stole any information.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/874307.asp?0dm=C236T
http://www.msnbc.com/news/874907.asp?0si=-&cp1=1
-- Banks Cancel Cards After Security Breach
(20/21 February 2003)
Pittsburgh's PNC bank has canceled 16,000 Visa cards after being
informed that their card were among those exposed in the recent
security breach; they are in the process of issuing new cards to
their customers. MasterCards issued by Rhode Island-based Citizens'
Financial Group were also affected by the breach.
http://www.post-gazette.com/businessnews/20030220pnc0220p4.asp
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2003-02-21-hack-attack_x.htm
--
Utopian Maturity: Eternity, Liberty, Equality and now Fraternity & Altruism.
Message 9
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| Subject: | RE: AMP CPC or Equivalent Connectors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Bob - thanks, Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: AMP CPC or Equivalent Connectors
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:10 PM 2/25/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
><SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
>Bob - I was interested in your comments below about how versatile D-sub
>connectors are.
>
>I have always discarded the idea of running the strobe wires - power supply
>to head - through one of these assuming they would not take the voltage.
>However I do not know what voltage is in those wires. Am I correct, or
could
>some like AMP/Tyco's HDP-22 take it?
I wouldn't put high voltage on these connectors. The
connectors would be just fine . . . for awhile. They
are not designed to ward off effects of environmental
contamination that promotes breakdown and arcing between
closely spaced terminals. Stay with the fat-wire (.093" pins)
white nylon connectors as the low cost solution for
this one application.
I design the d-subs into systems at 30 volts and below.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: battery charger |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:19 AM 2/26/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: James Robinson
><jbr@hitechnetworks.net>
>
>Bob
>
>Do you have any recomendations for a good battery charger for the sealed
>batteries.
If you want a charger to boost a battery that is known to
be in some state less than full charge . . . anything
you pick up at the car parts store is fine. Just leave
it on no longer than required to top the battery off.
Look for an "automatic shutoff" feature . . . this is always
good too. There is NOTHING magic about chargers for flooded
vis-a-vis sealed lead-acid batteries . . . I've seen some
add which suggest that one needs to select a battery charger
with care lest you get one that's "okay" for flooded batteries
and "killer" for sealed batteries.
Any charger with "killer instincts" will kill any
kind of battery.
If you want a maintenance charger and/or you're not looking
for short term boost capability, then consider something
like
http://www.battery-chargers.com/catalog/6.pdf
. . . here you see a little automatic charger that
can be left on your battery indefinitely. This little
charger will recharge a totally dead battery of any
size. We had a thread on here a few weeks ago wherein
someone suggested that a small maintenance or "trickle"
charger was unsuited for recharging depleted batteries.
Not true. As long as the charging source puts out more
current than the self-discharge or leakage current
within the battery, the excess current will charge
the battery . . . it may take many hours to days but
it WILL charge the battery.
Folks have put 100 mA solar arrays on their hangars
thinking that this little bit of current can't possibly
hurt their battery. After sitting unattended for months,
many have come out to fly only to find that their
battery is cooked. "Automatic" is the key word for
extended unattended operation of any charger connected
to any battery technology.
A charger good for both boost and maintenance is
shown here:
http://www.battery-chargers.com/catalog/9.pdf
. . . but if you use an RG battery and fly regularly,
you should never find yourself in need of a battery
charger. A ground power jack for extended maintenance
operations on the ground is a pretty good idea too.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PreDial@aol.com
Bob,
Looking for suggestions for how to get wires thru the firewall ie connector
suggestions, how about battery cables? EMF problems with thermocouples?
Thanks
Jim Butcher
Message 12
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| Subject: | Design brainstorming - help, please? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
I need brainstorming help with initial design concepts, and this is as good
a group as it gets. This one's a little unusual.
My father died last month. I want to scatter his ashes from my plane. My
plane's a canard pusher - a Berkut - and I can't just open the window. I
need to build a pod that will hold his ashes, then open a door in front and
back when I push a button.
There's a wing tiedown point halfway out the wing that makes a natural
place to attach, but there's no electrical system available there. So, I'm
thinking I'll make it self contained, with batteries built in, and radio
controlled.
The door actuators should be self limiting. I was thinking of electric car
door lock actuators, but they seem to have a centrifugal clutch, so you can
move the lock button manually and not back drive the motor. That would
mean the actuator wouldn't keep the doors closed, so at the moment I'm
thinking of electric car window motors, but they seem oversized and powered
for the job.
The radio control, I'm not sure of. I'm thinking of buying a cheap RC car
and tearing it apart. All I need is "press button, switch goes on over
there" - I don't need any proportionality, and once they're open they don't
need to close again.
I know both doors will have to open toward the rear.
If anyone has any ideas either about design or sources for actuators and
radio control, I'd be thankful.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Design brainstorming - help, please? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:45 PM 2/26/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
>
>I need brainstorming help with initial design concepts, and this is as good
>a group as it gets. This one's a little unusual.
>
>My father died last month. I want to scatter his ashes from my plane. My
>plane's a canard pusher - a Berkut - and I can't just open the window. I
>need to build a pod that will hold his ashes, then open a door in front and
>back when I push a button.
>
>There's a wing tiedown point halfway out the wing that makes a natural
>place to attach, but there's no electrical system available there. So, I'm
>thinking I'll make it self contained, with batteries built in, and radio
>controlled.
>
>The door actuators should be self limiting. I was thinking of electric car
>door lock actuators, but they seem to have a centrifugal clutch, so you can
>move the lock button manually and not back drive the motor. That would
>mean the actuator wouldn't keep the doors closed, so at the moment I'm
>thinking of electric car window motors, but they seem oversized and powered
>for the job.
Consider door held shut by short stroke pin through
a clevis . . . You can get very small solenoids with
a goodly amount of pull force over short distances of
say .25" or less. They can take a lot of current but
a AA ni-cad pack will produce a lot of current for
the very short interval needed to pull the pin.
>The radio control, I'm not sure of. I'm thinking of buying a cheap RC car
>and tearing it apart. All I need is "press button, switch goes on over
>there" - I don't need any proportionality, and once they're open they don't
>need to close again.
See http://www.rfdigital.com/
>I know both doors will have to open toward the rear.
>
>If anyone has any ideas either about design or sources for actuators and
>radio control, I'd be thankful.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Design brainstorming - help, please? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: James Freeman <flyeyes@bellsouth.net>
On Wednesday, February 26, 2003, at 09:45 PM, richard@riley.net wrote:
>
> I need brainstorming help with initial design concepts, and this is as
> good
> a group as it gets. This one's a little unusual.
>
> My father died last month. I want to scatter his ashes from my plane.
> My
> plane's a canard pusher - a Berkut - and I can't just open the window.
> I
> need to build a pod that will hold his ashes, then open a door in
> front and
> back when I push a button.
>
Richard--I'm sorry to hear about your loss. I never met your father,
but I suspect he is largely responsible for the traits I admire in
you...
Could you run a pull string to a main gear well? I have heard of
people scattering ashes by placing them in a paper bag with a "rip
cord." Simple, reliable, "appropriate technology".
Maybe you could put the ashes in a main gear well, pull a string to
open the bag, and fly the whole mission with the gear down and locked.
IIRC the gear well is a foot or so outside the prop arc and they should
scatter in the prop/wing wash without reentering vents or the cockpit.
I've read that opening a window in cessnas fills the cabin and aft fuse
with ashes.
HTH
James Freeman
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Design brainstorming - help, please? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Sorry to hear of your loss - you have my condolences.
How tight is your canopy? Would it be possible to run a length of
monofilament fish line through the canopy/fuselage joint to the canister
and just pull on it to release a pull pin to allow the doors to open?
Or possibly route it through a ventilation port?
Dick Tasker
richard@riley.net wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
>
>I need brainstorming help with initial design concepts, and this is as good
>a group as it gets. This one's a little unusual.
>
>My father died last month. I want to scatter his ashes from my plane. My
>plane's a canard pusher - a Berkut - and I can't just open the window. I
>need to build a pod that will hold his ashes, then open a door in front and
>back when I push a button.
>
>There's a wing tiedown point halfway out the wing that makes a natural
>place to attach, but there's no electrical system available there. So, I'm
>thinking I'll make it self contained, with batteries built in, and radio
>controlled.
>
>The door actuators should be self limiting. I was thinking of electric car
>door lock actuators, but they seem to have a centrifugal clutch, so you can
>move the lock button manually and not back drive the motor. That would
>mean the actuator wouldn't keep the doors closed, so at the moment I'm
>thinking of electric car window motors, but they seem oversized and powered
>for the job.
>
>The radio control, I'm not sure of. I'm thinking of buying a cheap RC car
>and tearing it apart. All I need is "press button, switch goes on over
>there" - I don't need any proportionality, and once they're open they don't
>need to close again.
>
>I know both doors will have to open toward the rear.
>
>If anyone has any ideas either about design or sources for actuators and
>radio control, I'd be thankful.
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Design brainstorming - help, please? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
At 10:59 PM 2/26/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: James Freeman <flyeyes@bellsouth.net>
>Richard--I'm sorry to hear about your loss. I never met your father,
>but I suspect he is largely responsible for the traits I admire in
>you...
>
>Could you run a pull string to a main gear well? I have heard of
>people scattering ashes by placing them in a paper bag with a "rip
>cord." Simple, reliable, "appropriate technology".
>
>Maybe you could put the ashes in a main gear well, pull a string to
>open the bag, and fly the whole mission with the gear down and locked.
>IIRC the gear well is a foot or so outside the prop arc and they should
>scatter in the prop/wing wash without reentering vents or the cockpit.
Thanks, James. I can't go that way, for a couple of reasons.
I'm going to be doing this several times, scattering a little bit at each
of many places. Yosemite, Kill Devil Hill, La Bourget Airport, Eugene OR
(where he was born) Laurel, MS (where his father was born). Some will be
in the middle of cross country flights, and performance with gear down is
awful.
Second, my dad wouldn't have done it that way. He was a builder, he's why
I'm a builder. Even my grandfather was a builder. He was a flight
instructor for the signal corps during the first world war. He pulled up
the cornstalks to lay out the first runways at Kelly Field.
Right now I'm having to rebuild the landing gear on the Berkut, one of the
parts was *way* under engineered. I looked at several ways to do it,
widely varying in cost from about $100 (the half assed way) to about $3000
(the gold plated way). A couple of months ago I ran down all the options
for him, to ask his advice on which way to go. He said "Just do it right."
>I've read that opening a window in cessnas fills the cabin and aft fuse
>with ashes.
I've read that too. I'm actually going to keep a little in a tube in my
plane permanently. I don't need God as my co-pilot, that position is
already filled.
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