Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:09 AM - Re: Z-14 considerations (richard@riley.net)
2. 04:48 AM - Re: New Feature on aeroelectric.com (Charlie Kuss)
3. 06:21 AM - Re: Z-14 considerations (John Schroeder)
4. 06:35 AM - Re: Triple pole double throw switch (Benford2@aol.com)
5. 07:06 AM - Re: 10378 Fluent (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:07 AM - Re: Z-14 considerations (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 07:31 AM - Re: Triple pole double throw switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 07:33 AM - Re: Z-14 considerations (John Schroeder)
9. 08:24 AM - Solid State Voltage Regulator (Lonnie Benson)
10. 08:37 AM - BRIGHT FLASHING LED'S? Where do we get them? (Julia)
11. 08:44 AM - Re: Engine startup issues . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 08:58 AM - Re: Solid State Voltage Regulator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: Engine startup issues . . . (SportAV8R@aol.com)
14. 09:25 AM - Hall Effect Ammeters (Ken Brooks)
15. 09:34 AM - Re: New Feature on aeroelectric.com (Dave Grosvenor)
16. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: Engine startup issues . . . (BobsV35B@aol.com)
17. 09:54 AM - Re: BRIGHT FLASHING LED'S? Where do we get (Mark Steitle)
18. 10:25 AM - Re: BRIGHT FLASHING LED'S? Where do we get them? (John Mireley)
19. 10:47 AM - Re: Hall Effect Ammeters ()
20. 10:48 AM - Delamination (Fergus Kyle)
21. 02:39 PM - Re: Z-14 considerations (TimRhod@aol.com)
22. 04:08 PM - Re: Z-14 considerations (TimRhod@aol.com)
23. 04:33 PM - Re: Z-14 considerations (TimRhod@aol.com)
24. 05:02 PM - Re: Solid State Voltage Regulator (Lonnie Benson)
25. 05:17 PM - Re: Z-14 considerations (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 05:20 PM - Re: Z-14 considerations (John Schroeder)
27. 06:15 PM - Re: Re: 10378 Fluent (Duncan McBride)
28. 06:22 PM - Re: Solid State Voltage Regulator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
29. 06:23 PM - Re: Z-14 considerations (TimRhod@aol.com)
30. 06:49 PM - Re: Z-14 considerations (TimRhod@aol.com)
31. 07:24 PM - Re: Z-14 considerations (TimRhod@aol.com)
32. 08:06 PM - Re: Z-14 considerations (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
33. 08:11 PM - Re: Z-14 considerations (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
34. 08:31 PM - Re: BRIGHT FLASHING LED'S? Where do we get them? (Jerzy Krasinski)
35. 08:39 PM - Re: Hall Effect Ammeters (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
36. 08:44 PM - Re: Re: Halon (Jerzy Krasinski)
37. 08:44 PM - Re: Hall Effect Ammeters (Jerzy Krasinski)
38. 09:20 PM - Re: Hall Effect Ammeters (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
39. 10:04 PM - European hole spacing (Rob W M Shipley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 considerations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
>
> Tim. I've been getting your queries on this topic. I'm
> having some conversation with Greg about the validity
> and/or necessity for his advice. If he can produce numbers
> on the risks to his product along with a good excuse as
> to why he can't handle them, fine. But I'm going to hold
> his feet to the fire. Hang tight. Will get to it as soon as I can.
Add me to the list of inquirers. I'm guessing the thinking is that adding
an avionics master adds almost nothing in weight and cost, and not having
it might - just barely might - fry a $16k system. So they're erroring on
what they believe to be the side of caution.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: New Feature on aeroelectric.com |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Bob,
I'd like to thank you for your efforts to educate us. My operating system is Windows
2000 Pro. Using Internet Explorer 6.01 Service Pack 1, I successfully
downloaded the zip file. Download started at 39 kps accelerating up to 75 kps
over a 10 minute span. Download took 24 minutes with a DSL connection. As an experiment,
I've downloaded it again using Netscape 6.2.3 Download started at
75 kps, accelerating up to 78 kps. Download was completed in 23 minutes.
I would suggest to those listers using Windows, who are having trouble, that they
visit the Microsoft Windows Update site. Scan for updates and install ALL
critical updates to their computer. If you are still using IE 5 or 5.5, IE 6.01
SP1 is a nice improvement.
Charlie Kuss
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>Over the years, I've been able to supply a number of
>pin-out diagrams for some of the golden oldie radios
>and a few of the newer ones as well. I've placed a
>compendium of recent requests on:
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data
>
>If you don't find what you need there at any time, drop
>me a note and I'll see if I can add your request to
>the archive. This is a permanent addition to the
>website.
>
>Also, the latest CD_Rom has been uploaded to
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/CD/AEC7_1.zip
>
>
>Would be interested in getting feedback from folks
>who have successfully downloaded and unpacked the
>latest edition.
>
>Thanks!
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
> | over the man who cannot read them. |
> | - Mark Twain |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 considerations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Hi Tim - We are building a Lancair Super ES and are planning almost the same
avionics as you. All of our avionics are on the small bus (20 amp) and the Dynon
will probably be changed to a battery bus or the Large bus. We are planning on
the Aerosance FADEC and have one channel of that on one battery bus and the
second channel on the other battery bus.
Bob is working on a solution to the brownout of the FADEC due to starting
voltage drop. I'm not sure what we will do for the EFIS/ONE. Greg ought to be
working on a similar solution for the EFIS. We might try a very small, third
battery for Dynon, EFIS and FADEC to use for starting and for last ditch
electrical power.
Any other ideas?
I have a lot of Z-14 and our systems in an AutoCAD wirebook, along with a spread
sheet of components in Excel. You are welcome to a copy if you wish.
Cheers,
John Schroeder
I plan to use your Z-14 in my velocity. A few questions have come up. I am
>planning on dividing the avionics between the main bus and aux bus. Ie=A0 main
>bus will have Blue Mountain Efis/One, UPS SL-30 nav com, transponder ect. and
>aux bus will have Dynon EFIS, Garmin 530 nav- comm- GPS ect=A0 This gives total
>redundancy of IFR avionics on each electrical system. I would really like to
>have redundancy in the event of a alt. failure and also a cross feed
>contactor failure.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Triple pole double throw switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
Bob, On my 801 I am running a V-8 Ford with duel MDS ignitions. In the
process of switching between both ignition boxes I will also need to switch
the tach leads too. Do you have or have you seen a 3 pole double throw
toggle switch. I will be powering one box off the main buss and the other box
gets fed right off a fused link coming straight from the battery so in this
layout I need three common pins to switch from. Thanks in advance and once
again THANK you for all the time you spend answering all our questions. Ben
Haas N801BH.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 10378 Fluent |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:49 AM 3/6/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Thanks for the quick response Bob!
>
>Yesterday I inquired about the battery eliminator for an Icom A22. Are
>you referring to a dimmer circuit such as the one in the AeroElectric
>Connection in chapter 12 with the LM317 integrated circuit?
>
>Looking in the Icom manual, I see that the radio requires 12-15 volts.
>What that said, what is the main function of the dimmer circuit? To act
>as a filter or is there still a danger with high or low voltage? I plan
>on putting in the high voltage protection.
Okay, if your voltage requirements are that high, then
you can tie the incoming ship's power directly to
the battery terminals that drive the radio.
If you experience any kind of noise problems (don't
know what, if any, noise filtering may be part of
Icom's adapter), you may need to do something
like:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/filter.html
to clean up ship's power to the Icom's liking.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 considerations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:07 AM 3/6/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
>
>
> >
> > Tim. I've been getting your queries on this topic. I'm
> > having some conversation with Greg about the validity
> > and/or necessity for his advice. If he can produce numbers
> > on the risks to his product along with a good excuse as
> > to why he can't handle them, fine. But I'm going to hold
> > his feet to the fire. Hang tight. Will get to it as soon as I can.
>
>Add me to the list of inquirers. I'm guessing the thinking is that adding
>an avionics master adds almost nothing in weight and cost, and not having
>it might - just barely might - fry a $16k system. So they're erroring on
>what they believe to be the side of caution.
if that floats your boat . . . by all means.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Triple pole double throw switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:33 AM 3/6/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
>
>Bob, On my 801 I am running a V-8 Ford with duel MDS ignitions. In the
>process of switching between both ignition boxes I will also need to switch
>the tach leads too. Do you have or have you seen a 3 pole double throw
>toggle switch. I will be powering one box off the main buss and the other box
>gets fed right off a fused link coming straight from the battery so in this
>layout I need three common pins to switch from.
Go to alliedelec.com and search for:
Mfr.'s Part # 4TL1-1
Allied Stock #:642-2199
Manufacturer:HONEYWELL / MICROSWITCH
Description:Switch, Toggle, 4P, 15 Amps
It's a 4-pole switch . . . just ignore
the unneeded pole. They have several dozen
in stock
Bob . . .
> Thanks in advance and once
>again THANK you for all the time you spend answering all our questions. Ben
>Haas N801BH.
My pleasure
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 considerations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
> >
>> > Tim. I've been getting your queries on this topic. I'm
>> > having some conversation with Greg about the validity
>> > and/or necessity for his advice. If he can produce numbers
>> > on the risks to his product along with a good excuse as
>> > to why he can't handle them, fine. But I'm going to hold
>> > his feet to the fire. Hang tight. Will get to it as soon as I can.
>>
>>Add me to the list of inquirers. I'm guessing the thinking is that adding
>>an avionics master adds almost nothing in weight and cost, and not having
>>it might - just barely might - fry a $16k system. So they're erroring on
>>what they believe to be the side of caution.
>
> if that floats your boat . . . by all means.
>
> Bob . . .
Tim -
If you need/want your engine instruments for starting and initial engine
running, you'll need EFIS/ONE on line. An avionics master won't do this for you.
John
Message 9
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| Subject: | Solid State Voltage Regulator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lonnie Benson" <lonben@erols.com>
The Firewall Forward Kit for my Murphy Rebel contains a solid state voltage
regulator that has no information on it except a stock number? 61751-9HD and
a "Made in USA" stamp. (I remember years ago passing through a Japanese
town named USA). I did a Google search for info on this regulator but had
no luck. Does anyone on this list have any suggestions on where I can find
information on this regulator?
Lonnie
Murphy Rebel
Message 10
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| Subject: | BRIGHT FLASHING LED'S? Where do we get them? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia <wings97302@yahoo.com>
Where can I get bright flashing LED's - any ideas?
must be high intensity, mounted in a solid casing - not a flimsy unit. maybe mounts
in a 3/8 in hole??? What do they use on Fighter Jets? Where can we get
something the military might use in this case? I would prefer the flashing
be something built into the LED - rather than an external flasher - they do make
them this way.
thanks
---------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Engine startup issues . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:31 AM 3/6/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder
><jschroeder@perigee.net>
>
> > >
> >> > Tim. I've been getting your queries on this topic. I'm
> >> > having some conversation with Greg about the validity
> >> > and/or necessity for his advice. If he can produce numbers
> >> > on the risks to his product along with a good excuse as
> >> > to why he can't handle them, fine. But I'm going to hold
> >> > his feet to the fire. Hang tight. Will get to it as soon as I can.
> >>
> >>Add me to the list of inquirers. I'm guessing the thinking is that adding
> >>an avionics master adds almost nothing in weight and cost, and not having
> >>it might - just barely might - fry a $16k system. So they're erroring on
> >>what they believe to be the side of caution.
> >
> > if that floats your boat . . . by all means.
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>Tim -
>
>If you need/want your engine instruments for starting and initial engine
>running, you'll need EFIS/ONE on line. An avionics master won't do this
>for you.
Let's examine the contemporary concerns about startup . . .
We were all taught by our instructors to keep our eyes
glued to the oil pressure gage on startup; and be
spring-loaded to shut 'er down if we don't see some
immediate response after the engine starts.
Okay, has anyone ever heard or experienced a case where
the oil pump on an engine died while the airplane was
parked? Has anyone every heard or experienced an instance
of an oil pump dying on ANY engine in ANY vehicle
while the vehicle was parked? Yeah, cold oil
in airplane engines is really stiff and stresses
of pushing putty-like oil through small holes
are indeed greater than normal . . . do oil pumps
operate so close to ultimate stress limits that
they are truly at risk of failure on cold startups?
What are the other concerns for engine settings at
startup? Mixture full rich . . . no problem here.
Prop Full Increase . . . again no problem. Throttle
. . . open "1/x" inches. Hmmm . . . I rent a lot
of different aircraft and the largest single variable
is throttle setting . . . some airplanes come up
to a faster idle for the same throttle setting.
So? As soon as the engine catches, you throttle
back . . . do you NEED tachometer guidance
for this action?
Aside from oil pressure becoming active, what
are the really valid concerns for say, 2, 3, even
10 seconds after the engine starts? If you have
some form of electronic gaging system that
takes time to wake up, what are the real
risks to the health and well being of your
engine?
Really CONCERNED about the oil pressure thing?
How about an oil pressure operated hour-meter
with a double-throw pressure switch. Use
the low-pressure contact to light a LOW OIL P
annunciator. This will go out immediately
upon sensing that the oil pump is working and
let one breathe easy while some doggy electronics
decides to go to work.
Are we making design and operating decisions
based on physics . . . or simply accommodating
yet another tidbit of poor instruction
carved into aviator's gray matter for decades?
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Solid State Voltage Regulator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:23 AM 3/6/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lonnie Benson" <lonben@erols.com>
>
>The Firewall Forward Kit for my Murphy Rebel contains a solid state voltage
>regulator that has no information on it except a stock number? 61751-9HD and
>a "Made in USA" stamp. (I remember years ago passing through a Japanese
>town named USA). I did a Google search for info on this regulator but had
>no luck. Does anyone on this list have any suggestions on where I can find
>information on this regulator?
Have you talked to the folks who supply the kit?
What are your questions about the part?
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Engine startup issues . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
Bob wrote:
> As soon as the engine catches, you throttle
> back . . . do you NEED tachometer guidance
> for this action?
Lately, I have started heeding the advice I found in the Sac Sky Ranch
Engineering Manual, to idle my Lycoming O-320 at 1150 rpm after startup for
optimal initial lubrication of the cam and followers. These are splash-lubed
parts, and yes, I do use the tach function of my Grand Rapids system as soon
as I can get it booted, to follow this parameter. Unfortunately, 1150 rpm
proves a bit too much throttle for slow taxi downhill from the hangar to the
home strip, so I can't leave it set there very long. It is probably more of
an issue in the first few seconds, anyway, if it is even an issue at all.
I suppose there will be quite a diversity of opinion on this one, but since
the startup is the period of highest wear on engines, it is not altogether
trivial.
Submitted for your consideration; YMMV.
Bill B
RV-6A
Message 14
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| Subject: | Hall Effect Ammeters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks@charter.net>
Bob, and -listers--
I looked for hall effect ammeters like are shown on your Z-14
diagram, but I didn't find any listed on the B&C site. Where can I find
them? Thanks in advance.
Ken Brooks
Roscoe, IL
Do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: New Feature on aeroelectric.com |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Grosvenor" <dwg@iafrica.com>
No problem Bob, it was just a thought. It shouldn't be too long before we
get fast (512k!!!) connections in this part of the world.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New Feature on aeroelectric.com
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 05:51 PM 3/5/2003 +0200, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Grosvenor"
<dwg@iafrica.com>
> >
> >Hi Bob
> >
> >Is there any chance of having a seperate zip file on the site with just
the
> >updates from the one CD version to the next, or is that a real hassel?
If
> >someone has downloaded 7.0, it's another big download to get 7.1.
>
> Sorry . . . it IS a big hassle. There are small changes
> all over the website weekly, to keep track of them and
> try to offer an organized set up updated files would be
> too much.
>
> The CD's were offered for
> sale in deference to those who had slow Internet connections.
> If one has a fast connection, there's a lot of software out
> there (WebZip being one) that will rip and entire site and
> it's published links to a directory on your hard drive . . .
> in other words, do the same thing as we're offering with
> the .zip file.
>
> Posting the .zip file just means that you don't need to
> get Webzip, we've already zipped it. It's obviously
> no help for slow connections. Do you know anybody
> with a fast connection that can download it for you?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Engine startup issues . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 3/6/03 10:44:44 AM Central Standard Time,
bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
> Has anyone every heard or experienced an instance
> of an oil pump dying on ANY engine in ANY vehicle
> while the vehicle was parked?
Good Morning Bob,
Don't know if this qualifies or not.
Several years ago, I dropped my Stearman off at a Stearman guru shop for an
annual. Took a couple of weeks. During that time, they changed the oil and
ran the engine as part of the annual. I came to pick it up about a week
after they had run it.
When I started the engine, lo and behold, no oil pressure. We did all the
usual priming and such but still could not get pressure.
The pump was removed and rebuilt following which the pressure was fine.
This shop is the local Stearman place to go. The father started dusting with
them just after WWII and the sons have been working on them all their lives.
I won't say that the pump failed between the time they changed the oil and
when I started it up, but it would no longer pump oil even after the gurus
tried every trick they or I had heard of.
For What It's Worth!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: BRIGHT FLASHING LED'S? Where do we get |
them?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Steitle <msteitle@mail.utexas.edu>
Have you checked out www.superbrightleds.com for suitable applications?
At 08:36 AM 3/6/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia <wings97302@yahoo.com>
>
>
>Where can I get bright flashing LED's - any ideas?
>
>must be high intensity, mounted in a solid casing - not a flimsy
>unit. maybe mounts in a 3/8 in hole??? What do they use on Fighter
>Jets? Where can we get something the military might use in this
>case? I would prefer the flashing be something built into the LED -
>rather than an external flasher - they do make them this way.
>
>thanks
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: BRIGHT FLASHING LED'S? Where do we get them? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Mireley <mireley@pilot.msu.edu>
Julia wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia <wings97302@yahoo.com>
>
>
>Where can I get bright flashing LED's - any ideas?
>
>must be high intensity, mounted in a solid casing - not a flimsy unit. maybe
mounts in a 3/8 in hole??? What do they use on Fighter Jets? Where can we get
something the military might use in this case? I would prefer the flashing
be something built into the LED - rather than an external flasher - they do
make them this way.
>
>thanks
>
>
>
>
Red navigation
https://ssl.kundenserver.de/s7906728.shoplite.de/sess/utn153e6790051da2d/shopdata/index.shopscript?expand=1
Green navigation
https://ssl.kundenserver.de/s7906728.shoplite.de/sess/utn153e6790051da2d/shopdata/index.shopscript?expand=1
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Hall Effect Ammeters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
Hi Ken,
I Think that the hall effect that B&C has available comes with their standby
alternator regulator kit:
http://www.bandcspecialty.com/14-SB1B.pdf
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks@charter.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hall Effect Ammeters
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Brooks"
<kenbrooks@charter.net>
>
> Bob, and -listers--
> I looked for hall effect ammeters like are shown on your Z-14
> diagram, but I didn't find any listed on the B&C site. Where can I find
> them? Thanks in advance.
>
> Ken Brooks
> Roscoe, IL
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 20
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Marc,
I have made this a net message because my claim of delamination
due to kerosene atmosphere (heating) has yet to see proper confirmation.
The story of a barnbuilt aircraft wing coming apart in the air
was related to me by my 'boss' in a museum WW II rebuild about ten years
ago. he said he knew the victim and that the aircraft was brought down (with
disasterous results) not far from Hamilton ON. I locked the story away in
the "gotta Remember" file and renewed it on net.
You put a 'call' on the details admirably and when I returned to
the airport and questioned oldtimers at both EAA and RAA meetings, no one
had heard of the specific cause. The 'boss' had since departed this life and
the story remains unproven. I have not checked givvermint records but would
be surprised that none in this small av community recalling it if it were
recorded.
So, Marc, good on ya _ I retract the claim utterly (but in some
embarrassment for not having checked back at the time). Nevertheless I'm not
heating by kerosene!
Regards,
Ferg
Europa A064
PS The EAA has admitted to dropping the record of Chapter 65 by
mistake and has 're-recognized' same, so I'm not orphaned after all.....
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 considerations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
Bob I'm not so afraid of two failures on one tank of gas as I am trying to
design an electrical system that with very little extra cost and time is
triple redundant for the following reason. When I fly I would like to have a
plane that is always able to get me home from a trip IFR before It will
require repair. For instance if I fly to the bahamas and happen to loose an
alternator. I dont want to spend my vacation tracking down another one and
rounding up the tools to fix it. I want to be able to fly back home with a
still redundant system (for my peace of mind) and then make the repairs at
home where I have all the tools and can wait to get the parts and have the
time to fixt it. I guess I have gotten stuck too many times in places where I
dont want to be forced to have the plane worked on. Does this seem
illogical?
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 considerations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 considerations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
Hi John:
I am also using the aerosance fadec continental. Have you got yours yet? Im
still waiting. What I am trying to do is design a electrical system around
Z-14 that has as much redundancy as practical. I want to be able to fly
somewhere and if a failure occurs not have to worry about it, not only for
that flight but until I actually get home which could be several flights
later. I have been stuck before in places where I had to spend my vacation
time or had to delay my flights to get something fixed. Anywhere except home
I dont have my tools, may not have a ready sorce of replacement parts and the
time to fix it. In Z-14 in order to continue a IFR flight I have to have at
least one alternator going. If all your avionics are on one aux bus as you
said yours might be then if you loose your Aux Alt you are completely
dependent on the cross feed contactor for power from the other alt. This is
now a single sorce of failure for all you avionics. I see two possable ways
of dealing with this. 1. split your redundant avionics on to the two main
and Aux. busses or put in an endurance buss with an alt path from each of the
two electrical systems. I was thinking of this approach but am concerned
about too many amp going through the diode. I dont know if that is a problem
or not. I would appreciate you input on all these thoughts Thanks Tim
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Solid State Voltage Regulator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lonnie Benson" <lonben@erols.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Solid State Voltage Regulator
>. Does anyone on this list have any suggestions on where I can find
> >information on this regulator?
>
> Have you talked to the folks who supply the kit?
>
> What are your questions about the part?
>
> Bob . . .
>
Bob, I emailed the Murphy Engineer but he was on his way to the Phillipines
and will not return for several weeks.
My main question is, if I add over voltage protection per Fig. Z-11, will
this regulator be suitable for use in the airplane, or would I be wise to go
out and buy a generic Ford regulator? I will be using this airplane for
day VFR.
I would like to know what criteria Murphy used in picking this particular
regulator.
Thanks for your help.
Lonnie
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 considerations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:32 PM 3/6/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
>
>Hi John:
>I am also using the aerosance fadec continental. Have you got yours yet? Im
>still waiting. What I am trying to do is design a electrical system around
>Z-14 that has as much redundancy as practical. I want to be able to fly
>somewhere and if a failure occurs not have to worry about it, not only for
>that flight but until I actually get home which could be several flights
>later. I have been stuck before in places where I had to spend my vacation
>time or had to delay my flights to get something fixed. Anywhere except home
>I dont have my tools, may not have a ready sorce of replacement parts and the
>time to fix it. In Z-14 in order to continue a IFR flight I have to have at
>least one alternator going. If all your avionics are on one aux bus as you
>said yours might be then if you loose your Aux Alt you are completely
>dependent on the cross feed contactor for power from the other alt. This is
>now a single sorce of failure for all you avionics.
Sounds like you need the super quad feed essential bus. One
bus with all your avionics on it with diode feeds from
both aux and main busses plus alternate feed switches
from each battery bus . . .
> I see two possable ways
>of dealing with this. 1. split your redundant avionics on to the two main
>and Aux. busses or put in an endurance buss with an alt path from each of the
>two electrical systems. I was thinking of this approach but am concerned
>about too many amp going through the diode.
You can buy ANY size diode you need.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 considerations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Hi Tim :
I've learned through the years that if you lose a primary system, you fix it
before you fly again. If I lose the #2 alt. and the crossfeed fails (very long
odds, BTW), I still have the battery and that is good enough in IFR to have all
the avionics I need to get down with the fuel that I have. I really believe that
Z-14 is about as safe as you can get re: the electrical system in an airplane
like ours. But to takeoff with anything less, because one does not want to "get
marooned" really begs for trouble. Remember, with a FADEC, you are totally
dependent on electrical power to keep the engine going. This makes VFR flight
with less than a complete system as bad as it would be in IFR.
We have not taken delivery of the IOF-550 yet.
Just my thoughts and self-imposed rules. I'd welcome additional commentary.
Cheers,
John
3/6/2003 7:32:05 PM, TimRhod@aol.com wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
>
>Hi John:
>I am also using the aerosance fadec continental. Have you got yours yet? Im
>still waiting. What I am trying to do is design a electrical system around
>Z-14 that has as much redundancy as practical. I want to be able to fly
>somewhere and if a failure occurs not have to worry about it, not only for
>that flight but until I actually get home which could be several flights
>later.
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: 10378 Fluent |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Duncan McBride <duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 10378 Fluent
> If you experience any kind of noise problems (don't
> know what, if any, noise filtering may be part of
> Icom's adapter), you may need to do something
> like:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/filter.html
>
> to clean up ship's power to the Icom's liking.
>
> Bob . . .
>
I have the MicroAir 760 in my Rotax 912 powered Kolb Twinstar. It's wired
as in your diagram, with the shields from the headphone and mic going to the
mic lo pin on the MicroAir. The only wires going to the panel ground are
from the two ground pins and the intercom ground, through a switch. I'm
getting a very loud alternator or ignition whine when I use the PTT or
intercom switch. The noise frequency and volume is directly proportional to
rpm. Same noise with transmit or intercom, so would it be the antenna? I
have a computer grade electrolytic capacitor in the charging circuit 14V,
22k mf (wiring is appendix Z-7 all the way) Would trying the RadioShack
filter above be the next thing to try?
Maybe not related, when I checked the 760 wiring after noticing the noise,
I realized I had forgotten to hook up the ground wires. Except for the
noise it had worked just fine. Hooking the ground wires up didn't change
anything. Must be that the chassis is grounded where it fastens to the
panel, or is that a problem too? Thanks for your help.
P.S. I downloaded AEC7_1.zip in about ten minutes on a cable modem. No
problems.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Solid State Voltage Regulator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:01 PM 3/6/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lonnie Benson" <lonben@erols.com>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Solid State Voltage Regulator
>
>
> >. Does anyone on this list have any suggestions on where I can find
> > >information on this regulator?
> >
> > Have you talked to the folks who supply the kit?
> >
> > What are your questions about the part?
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
>Bob, I emailed the Murphy Engineer but he was on his way to the Phillipines
>and will not return for several weeks.
>
>My main question is, if I add over voltage protection per Fig. Z-11, will
>this regulator be suitable for use in the airplane, or would I be wise to go
>out and buy a generic Ford regulator? I will be using this airplane for
>day VFR.
the regulator you have will be fine . . .
>I would like to know what criteria Murphy used in picking this particular
>regulator.
it was probably the right price and said "alternator regulator"
on the box . . . and 99% of the time this is quite sufficient.
Alternator are very forgiving of performance from a regulator.
Bob . . .
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 considerations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
In a message dated 3/6/2003 8:18:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
Why would you need duel feeds from both of the main and aux bus when you have
duel alt feeds from both battery busses?
> Sounds like you need the super quad feed essential bus. One
> bus with all your avionics on it with diode feeds from
> both aux and main busses plus alternate feed switches
> from each battery bus . . .
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 considerations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
John :
appreciate the comments. I would totally agree with you about not taking
off with anything less than primary and secondary systems working. In most
planes this is one alt and one batt. However if you have Z-14 with one alt
failure you still have one alt and two batts . Still better than conventional
systems. But this is dependent on the crossfeed contactor if all your
avionics are on one bus with no alternate feed capabilities. I would like an
alt feed to my avionics to cover this scenario,hence my idea of splitting up
the avionics on seperate busses or duel alt feeds to an essential buss. It
doesnt seem to be much work or cost to create this in the design. Comments?
Tim
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 considerations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
In a message dated 3/6/2003 8:18:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
> Sounds like you need the super quad feed essential bus. One
> bus with all your avionics on it with diode feeds from
> both aux and main busses plus alternate feed switches
> from each battery bus . . .
>
Why do you need duel feeds through diodes from main and aux buss if you have
duel alterrnate feeds from each battery bus? I may have the answer to my
own question. If you have both an Alternator failure and crossfeed contactor
failure. With duel feeds through diodes from each bus you as pilot are
still not required to engage the alt feed switch thus eliminating one
additional pilot task? is this correct?
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 considerations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:21 PM 3/6/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 3/6/2003 8:18:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
>
>Why would you need duel feeds from both of the main and aux bus when you have
>duel alt feeds from both battery busses?
>
> > Sounds like you need the super quad feed essential bus. One
> > bus with all your avionics on it with diode feeds from
> > both aux and main busses plus alternate feed switches
> > from each battery bus . . .
If one were to cover every conceivable combination of
multiple failure then feedpaths from each of all four
sources would be indicated.
Bob . . .
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 considerations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:22 PM 3/6/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 3/6/2003 8:18:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
>
> > Sounds like you need the super quad feed essential bus. One
> > bus with all your avionics on it with diode feeds from
> > both aux and main busses plus alternate feed switches
> > from each battery bus . . .
> >
>
>Why do you need duel feeds through diodes from main and aux buss if you have
>duel alterrnate feeds from each battery bus? I may have the answer to my
>own question. If you have both an Alternator failure and crossfeed contactor
>failure. With duel feeds through diodes from each bus you as pilot are
>still not required to engage the alt feed switch thus eliminating one
>additional pilot task? is this correct?
Well, there are battery contactors to be lost too in which
case the attendant alternator may not be available either
so your down to an alternate feed path directly from the
battery(s). One can hypothesize quite an array of multiple
failures . . . The simplest catch-all is exemplified in
many bizjets by the multiple-feed essential bus which at a
minimum has diode feeds from both mains and direct support
from a battery . . . since biz jets generally have only one
battery, it's called a triple-feed essential bus, if you
have two batteries, the you're a candidate for a quad-feed
essential bus. Pilot tasks are seldom the issue here.
What's another page or two in a POH that's already
200 pages?
Bob . . .
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: BRIGHT FLASHING LED'S? Where do we get them? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski@direcway.com>
Julia,
Check
http://www.stores.ebay.com/chiwingledproductshop/plistings/list/all/dept1/page2.html,
or go straight to the item
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2513366932. It is
one of the positions in an EBAY store., located in Hong Kong.
Recently I got these diodes and I am really impressed. They are the
best attention getters I have ever seen. They flash red-green-blue in a
fast sequence and after a few seconds they change to a slow
red-green-blue sequence and back again, sort of like a police car that
stops you when you were speeding. They are VERY bright, they are around
1$ a piece. All the driving electronics is inside, you have to provide
only a current limiting resistor ~600 ohms. Unfortunately these diodes
have no mounts but you can get them easy in a surplus store, or maybe
even in Radio Shack.
Jerzy
Julia wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia <wings97302@yahoo.com>
>
>
>Where can I get bright flashing LED's - any ideas?
>
>must be high intensity, mounted in a solid casing - not a flimsy unit. maybe
mounts in a 3/8 in hole??? What do they use on Fighter Jets? Where can we get
something the military might use in this case? I would prefer the flashing
be something built into the LED - rather than an external flasher - they do
make them this way.
>
>thanks
>
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Hall Effect Ammeters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:47 PM 3/6/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
>
>Hi Ken,
>
>I Think that the hall effect that B&C has available comes with their standby
>alternator regulator kit:
>
>http://www.bandcspecialty.com/14-SB1B.pdf
>
>Ned
that's a hall sensor that drives an output current
detector in the SB-1 regulator. It doesn't provide
any kind of output to drive an instrument.
Bob . . .
Message 36
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski@direcway.com>
Actually halons do much more than just "displacing oxygen and removing
enormous amounts of heat through evaporation". Halons absorb a lot of
radiation from the flame, mostly in the infrared, and they prevent
excitation of molecules ahead of the front of the flame. Excited
molecules of fuel and oxygen have electrons far away from the core of
the molecule, and such excited molecules are very eager to get involved
in a transfer of these electrons to other molecules, which is the base
of chemical reactions. Excitation of molecules ahead of the flame by
radiation heating is the basic mechanism for a flame propagation.
Chemically inert halons absorbing radiation prevent excitation of fuel
and oxygen molecules ahead of the front of the flame, and they make
propagation of the flame difficult or impossible. Even as little as a
few percent of halon stops propagation of the flame which makes it easy
to blow it off - halons are extremely efficient as fire
extinguishers. You would need much higher concentration for a
conventional displacement of oxygen like in a CO2 extinguisher. A few
percent concentration would not make any difference if the displacement
was the main mechanism. Classical cooling by small amounts of halon is
not that important in fighting fire because chemical reaction of burning
fuel generates huge amounts of heat, and cold gasoline vapor burns quite
well anyway. I worked on halons some thirty years ago.
Jerzy
Alex Peterson wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
>
>I talked to an engineer at the outfit that makes halotron, and asked him
>what the scoop was between halon and halotron. He said that pound for
>pound, halotron is about 80% (going on memory here, but the number is
>close) as effective in fire fighting as halon. Shouldn't be any
>more/less safe than halon for us, but it makes the greenies happy. Of
>course, we need to burn more fuel to lift the extra pound of halotron
>around, so I guess there are no free lunches. The halon that is still
>available is from reclaimed sources, as it is no longer legal to
>manufacture halon. Either one puts out fires by displacing oxygen and
>removing enormous amounts of heat through evaporation.
>
>Alex Peterson
>Maple Grove, MN
>RV6-A N66AP 265 hours, dragging an extra pound of extinguisher with the
>whole way
>www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
>
>>
>>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Hall Effect Ammeters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski@direcway.com>
There are many places. Check Sypris Test and measurement Inc, Hanging
Moss Road , Orlando Florida 32807, (407) 678 6900. They sell devices
made by F.W. Bell. Model PI is good up to 350A. Also, it is worth to
check recommended amplifier circuit at www.fwbell.com
Jerzy
Ken Brooks wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks@charter.net>
>
>Bob, and -listers--
> I looked for hall effect ammeters like are shown on your Z-14
>diagram, but I didn't find any listed on the B&C site. Where can I find
>them? Thanks in advance.
>
>Ken Brooks
>Roscoe, IL
>Do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Hall Effect Ammeters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:24 AM 3/6/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks@charter.net>
>
>Bob, and -listers--
> I looked for hall effect ammeters like are shown on your Z-14
>diagram, but I didn't find any listed on the B&C site. Where can I find
>them? Thanks in advance.
>
>Ken Brooks
>Roscoe, IL
>Do not archive
This technology hasn't been developed into a product
by either B&C or AEC as of this writing. Since that
chapter was written, some MUCH more accurate devices
using Hall technology combined with an integrated
circuit gives you a sensor like the closed loop
sensors at:
http://www.sypris.com/stm/content.asp?page_id=323
consider the CLN-200 on
http://www.sypris.com/stm/content.asp?page_id=401
as the core sensor for a DIY ammeter. I can
provide a suggested schematic for using
these devices. They need about 150 milliamperes
of +/- 12 or 15 volts. A bit of a hassle but
getting easier all the time.
I've used a number of these sensors in instrumentation
tasks over the past 10 years. Really predictable
and stable output compared to the older, open
loop devices.
The MicroMonitor uses a hall effect device. The
last time I saw one installed they were using
a Honeywell product. You can browse the
complete line of Honeywell current sensors
at
http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/current/
check out the CSLA1CF open loop sensor at
http://catalog.sensing.honeywell.com/printfriendly.asp?FAM=current&PN=CSLA1CF
and a closed loop sensor at
http://catalog.sensing.honeywell.com/printfriendly.asp?FAM=current&PN=CSNA111-500
Didn't find anyone other than MicroMonitor
taking advantage of this technology in a
product.
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | European hole spacing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob@RobsGlass.com>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Miles Simon" <Simon.Miles@skynet.be>
Why not simply supply the manual with pages punched for both U.S. and
overseas standards? I've got your manual here in front of me and the U.S.
standard holes in the pages you supply seem to be suitably different from
the A4 standard used here in Europe.
Hey Simon,
Why not just repunch it yourself and then buy an A4 binder? I suspect that the
number Bob mails to the UK and Europe probably don't justify his setting up to
punch them for A4 but a chap who can build a plane should be able to handle
this for himself I would imagine ;-]
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV Fuselage.
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