Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:55 AM - Trim Relays (Steve Sampson)
2. 05:11 AM - Re: Re: Engine Startup issues... (Alex Peterson)
3. 07:40 AM - Re: PC/Monitor noise on Recording Equipment (nhulin)
4. 08:19 AM - Re: Hall effect ammeters (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:49 AM - Re: Trim Relays (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 10:31 AM - Re: Firewall Wire Penetration (HCRV6@aol.com)
7. 12:38 PM - Audio Isolation Amp (Mark Phillips)
8. 02:48 PM - Re: Audio Isolation Amp (Jos Okhuijsen)
9. 03:11 PM - Re: Audio Isolation Amp (Richard E. Tasker)
10. 03:38 PM - Aux battery Low Voltage notification (Glles.Thesee)
11. 06:37 PM - Re: Audio Isolation Amp (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 06:42 PM - Re: Aux battery Low Voltage notification (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 10:39 PM - Galls flasher FS039 (Amit Dagan)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Bob - two questions concerning the MAC trim system to be installed in an
RV9a.
1. Although MAC say I can drive the trim directly from the stick I plan
to put a relay between the stick and relay as you previously advised.
Presumably I would need 2 of your P/N S704-1 relays, one for up and one for
down? Assuming yes are there not appropriate relays which mimic the 2-7
switch?
2. Are there any solid state parts that would mimic the 2-7 and act as
a relay. Surely this would be cheaper and more reliable?
Sorry if you have covered this before but I could not find it.
Regards, Steve
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Startup issues... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
That is exactly how I set mine up, and am happy with it. The red idiot
light is high on the panel, so I can tell if I've left the master on
from outside the plane. The other side of the switch (NO) side connects
the battery bus to the hour-meter, so it always ticks whenever the
engine is running.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 264 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
> That's what a pressure switch driven lamp would do for us. The
> same switch could run the hour-meter.
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: PC/Monitor noise on Recording Equipment |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
Jim,
I agree with Bob that we can't tell without some investigation but I work
with a lot of live audio gear and radio mics. The setup continually varies
depending on the venue and the event. The RF from the PC can be getting into
the audio gear by radiation, through the common ground, or through the
power. Most likely you are picking something up in your mic preamps.
First things to try are orientation and distance. This will tell you if it
is being coupled by radiation or via the physical connections. If it goes
away when you relocate the equipment then you can guess that it is being
radiated and then tackle that problem.
If relocating the equipment doesn't help, then unplug or power down each
item one at a time to determine who the "antagonist" is.
In general terms look at the quality of your low signal level cables. Use
good quality XLR connectors and shielded cables. If you have doubtful
cables, swap them out. Cable routing is another item to consider. Keep the
interconnects short and direct. Keep audio away from power.
If you suspect the noise is entering through the common ground, prove this
by powering the recording equipment off a different cct than the PC
equipment. This will likely introduce 60Hz hum but it proves the
interference mechanism.
Another suggestion is that you put the mic preamps out front and run
everything to the recording equipment as line level. Might be worth a try if
it provides a reliable solution.
...neil
Cincinnati Ohio
Zodiac 601XL
> Time: 01:10:13 PM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PC/Monitor noise on Recording Equipment
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 10:19 AM 3/7/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Pack" <jpack@igs3.com>
> >
> >It's not Aero, but you guys seem to know everything electric.
> >
> >I've just put music recording equipement in the same portable case as my
PC
> >mixing equipement. I now have a static sound. I think it is caused by
the
> >monitor/cables or PC Fans. What can I do to isolate these systems from
the
> >recording equipement while keeping them all in the same physical box?
Can
> >it be done electrically? Or is there some sort of shealding I should use
> >around the PC & monitor/cables?
>
> No really good way to know. You need to find out what
> the propagation mode between victim and antagonist
> and then break that path. It can be radiated or
> conducted and take time and effort to ferret out.
>
> I'd hesitate to recommend any particular action
> without doing some "sniffing" in the lab with equipment
> designed to assist in deducing the answers. You can
> certainly try combinations of shielding, filters,
> and magnetic barriers (low hardness steel sheet
> between the combatants) . . . you might get lucky
> and find that the solution is simple.
>
> Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Hall effect ammeters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:04 PM 3/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BAKEROCB@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 03/07/2003 2:58:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com Bob Nuckolls writes:
>
><snip>
>
> Didn't find anyone other than MicroMonitor taking advantage of this
>technology in a
> product. Bob . . . >>
>
>3/7/2003
>
>Hello Bob, How about the Vision Microsystems Hall effect sensor installed on
>the alternator B cable to create the eventual amperage read out on their
>proprietary display? Does it qualify?
Yup, that's the MicroMonitor I mentioned . . .
Bob . . .
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:27 AM 3/8/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
><SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
>Bob - two questions concerning the MAC trim system to be installed in an
>RV9a.
>
>1. Although MAC say I can drive the trim directly from the stick I plan
>to put a relay between the stick and relay as you previously advised.
>Presumably I would need 2 of your P/N S704-1 relays, one for up and one for
>down? Assuming yes are there not appropriate relays which mimic the 2-7
>switch?
>2. Are there any solid state parts that would mimic the 2-7 and act as
>a relay. Surely this would be cheaper and more reliable?
>
>Sorry if you have covered this before but I could not find it.
>
>Regards, Steve
The MAC actuators draw about 100 ma . . . QUITE within
the capability of stick mounted switches and the wiring
normally associated with them. You need
a TWO-pole, double-throw, spring-loaded center off
switch like the 2-7. These CAN be acquired in miniature
switches. One such source is Newark Electronics
Cat# 21F657 C & K COMPONENTS C and K 7000 Series
Miniature Toggle Switch, DP3T Circut at $8.04 each
C&K p/n 7205SYZQE
You can find dimension data for this switch at:
http://www.ittcannon.com/media/pdf/catalogs/7000togl.pdf
See page A-4
There are some electronic interfaces that would convert
a single pole switch to this task . . . it takes a couple
of power transistors, 4 resistors, 2 capacitors. Relatively
easy but perhaps you might want to look into the size
issues for the C&K 7205 first.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall Wire Penetration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 3/7/03 10:35:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,
wings97302@yahoo.com writes:
<< I have a aircraft stainless steel welder interested in adding to his
product line a firewall penetration product RV builders might purchase. His
question is what might the best thing look like?
I"m picturing an Stainless flange to which is welded a tube with a 90
degree bend in it. What size tubing would work best. Would it be better to
have a small one on each side, or all wires run through one larger tube? >>
Sounds very interesting. My preference would be to have three sizes of tube
I.D.s, 1/4", 1/2" and 3/4". I'd definitely go for these if they become
available soon, like within the next 30 days or so (at a reasonable price
that is).
Do not archive
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, firewall forward
Message 7
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| Subject: | Audio Isolation Amp |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
'Lectronics arnt us!
I've spent the better part of two days rummaging around in the Mouser
catalog trying to dig up the parts for this little beast,
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v4.pdf
and I have learned how totally ignerant I am and little else! I "think"
I have found the LM386 (Mouser #513-NJM386BD) and the LM7808 (Mouser
#513-NJM7808FA), but how does one decide which capacitors and resistors
to opt for? Kind of looks like I'd have to call them to place the
resistor order anyway as I didn't see anywhere on the website to specify
resistance value. And what kind of caps? Bob specs 1uF/15V for most,
but I don't see anything "rated" that low- is this a minimum rating for
dielectric strength and 400V would be OK as long as the capacitance is
correct? There are almost 50 pages of just non-electrolytics! And most
moronic of all, is 1uF = 1000pF? (aaarghh!)
I'd like to use the clad board technique Bob demonstrates at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/cladboard/cladboard.html
In the back of the Mouser catalog (p844) is "Vectorboard General
Purpose" prototyping board described as "CEM 1 Epoxy glass comp", .062
thk, 4-1/2"x17" Is this the right stuff? (for $20!!!!!- probably only
need about 5 bucks worth!)
I'm sure most of you tech-types just got all this stuff laying around
your workbench and could slop one together in yer sleep that works
perfectly, but I could sure use some advice- I really don't want to take
out time to go back & grind through all the fundamentals, but if any of
y'all have a specific parts list put together for this thing, DigiKey,
Mouser or whatever, I could sure use it! Better yet, throw the parts in
a baggie, mail it to me and I'll send you some bucks! Maybe one day Bob
will add a comic strip on this critter to his other great stuff, but I'm
not sure if enough builders like me (cheap!) actually go about making
one of these things to justify his time- I feel guilty just THINKING
about asking him...
Need to be in the shop & not in the catalogs at The PossumWorks
Mark do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Audio Isolation Amp |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jos Okhuijsen <josok@ukolo.fi>
Mark Phillips wrote:
>dielectric strength and 400V would be OK as long as the capacitance is
>correct? There are almost 50 pages of just non-electrolytics! And most
>moronic of all, is 1uF = 1000pF? (aaarghh!)
>
>
Higher voltages will be larger and heavier, for the rest better
The order is 1 pico= 0.000 000 000 0001F, 1 nano=0.000 000 0001F, 1
micro= 0.000 0001F,
So 1 uF = 1 000 000 pF
>I'd like to use the clad board technique Bob demonstrates at
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/cladboard/cladboard.html
>
>In the back of the Mouser catalog (p844) is "Vectorboard General
>Purpose" prototyping board described as "CEM 1 Epoxy glass comp", .062
>thk, 4-1/2"x17" Is this the right stuff? (for $20!!!!!- probably only
>need about 5 bucks worth!)
>
>I'm sure most of you tech-types just got all this stuff laying around
>your workbench and could slop one together in yer sleep that works
>perfectly, but I could sure use some advice- I really don't want to take
>out time to go back & grind through all the fundamentals, but if any of
>y'all have a specific parts list put together for this thing, DigiKey,
>Mouser or whatever, I could sure use it! Better yet, throw the parts in
>a baggie, mail it to me and I'll send you some bucks! Maybe one day Bob
>will add a comic strip on this critter to his other great stuff, but I'm
>not sure if enough builders like me (cheap!) actually go about making
>one of these things to justify his time- I feel guilty just THINKING
>about asking him...
>
And how about your soldering technique? Better to find a hobbiest i guess?
Jos
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Audio Isolation Amp |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Here is a Mouser part number list of acceptable components.
Description Qty Mouser #
Cost (ea) Comments
470 ohm resistor 7 299-470
0.08 Min. qty. is 10 pieces
27 ohm resistor 5 299-27
0.08 Min. qty. is 10 pieces
0.01uf/50V ceramic capacitor 2 80-C315C103K5R 0.13 Polarity
insensitive, axial lead
Choose one:
1uf/50V ceramic capacitor 7 581-SR215E105M 0.35 Polarity
insensitive, axial lead
1uf/25V electrolytic capacitor 7 140-XRL25V1.0 0.05 Polarity
sensitive, radial lead
1uf/100V electrolytic capacitor 7 140-XAL100V1.0 0.25
Polarity sensitive, axial lead
Choose one:
10uf/15V electrolytic capacitor 4 140-XAL16V10 0.25 Polarity
sensitive, axial lead
10uf/15V electrolytic capacitor 4 140-XRL16V10 0.05 Polarity
sensitive, radial lead
The selection of resistors and 0.01uf capacitor is straightforward.
The other capacitors are optional based on what you want and feel
comfortable with. If you are building the circuit using Bob's method
and you use the electrolytic capacitors, you probably want to use the
axial leaded versions (the leads come out of the two ends) for ease of
assembly. You have a choice with the 1uf capacitors of electrolytic or
ceramic - the ceramic is more expensive but is doesn't matter which end
you connect to what in the circuit. With the electrolytics you MUST
connect the positive end (marked on the case) to the flat plate side
shown on the schematic. The resistors can be connected however you want.
I didn't specify a DB-15 connector style because that is dependent on
how you want to mount everything. Look at the catalog or on the web site.
>and I have learned how totally ignerant I am and little else! I "think"
>I have found the LM386 (Mouser #513-NJM386BD) and the LM7808 (Mouser
>#513-NJM7808FA),
>
These are correct, although you could also use a 513-NJM78L08A (lower
power, smaller version).
>is this a minimum rating for
>dielectric strength and 400V would be OK as long as the capacitance is
>correct?
>
Yes, although 400V would probably be rather large :-) .
>There are almost 50 pages of just non-electrolytics! And most
>moronic of all, is 1uF = 1000pF? (aaarghh!)
>
No. 1uf = 1,000,000 pf
>In the back of the Mouser catalog (p844) is "Vectorboard General
>Purpose" prototyping board described as "CEM 1 Epoxy glass comp", .062
>thk, 4-1/2"x17" Is this the right stuff? (for $20!!!!!- probably only
>need about 5 bucks worth!)
>
You can use FR-4 or CEM (do not get FR-2). The stuff is expensive
because this material has holes in it. The holes make it easier to use
(you can stick the components leads through the holes before soldering)
and you can cut grooves in teh copper to separate sections.
If you are prepared to spend $20, you might consider 574-3797-2
($18.66). It has a general purpose circuit pattern on it that you can
use to mount all your components on (lots of separated circuit
sections). It will allow a much neater layout than Bob's method
(nothing wrong with his method though if you have the PCB material he
specifies). Take a look on the mouser web site.
>I'm sure most of you tech-types just got all this stuff laying around
>your workbench and could slop one together in yer sleep that works
>perfectly, but I could sure use some advice- I really don't want to take
>out time to go back & grind through all the fundamentals, but if any of
>y'all have a specific parts list put together for this thing, DigiKey,
>Mouser or whatever, I could sure use it! Better yet, throw the parts in
>a baggie, mail it to me and I'll send you some bucks!
>
Sorry I don't have all the parts on hand or I would do so.
If you have any other questions (or if I have confused you even more :-)
) email me.
Dick Tasker, 90573 RV9A
Message 10
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| Subject: | Aux battery Low Voltage notification |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Bob,
Our project is single alternator, dual battery with LVW-ABMM.
Concerning your LVW-ABMM diagram, I'd like to have a 'Aux Bat Low Voltage'
notification for the aux battery, instead of the 'Aux Bat On' light.
Do the following solutions make sense ?
- Discard the light, and install a LVW module sensing the Aux Bat voltage,
but fed from the Main Power Bus, to avoid illumination when the master
switch is off.
OR
-Replace the light with a small relay, and drive the annunciator from the
Main Power Bus, via the NC contact.
Or is there a more elegant -or more correct - solution to achieve this goal
?
Thanks,
Gilles
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Audio Isolation Amp |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
<SNIP>
> >
> >I'm sure most of you tech-types just got all this stuff laying around
> >your workbench and could slop one together in yer sleep that works
> >perfectly, but I could sure use some advice- I really don't want to take
> >out time to go back & grind through all the fundamentals, but if any of
> >y'all have a specific parts list put together for this thing, DigiKey,
> >Mouser or whatever, I could sure use it! Better yet, throw the parts in
> >a baggie, mail it to me and I'll send you some bucks! Maybe one day Bob
> >will add a comic strip on this critter to his other great stuff, but I'm
> >not sure if enough builders like me (cheap!) actually go about making
> >one of these things to justify his time- I feel guilty just THINKING
> >about asking him...
This is not a very good first-time project for
the neophyte assembler. First, there are some minor
errors on the drawing that the ol' salts would
catch. Second, this circuit has not been actually
assembled and tried out. Again, someone with
experience in tailoring gains and frequency
response wouldn't have a hard time with it.
I've laid out an etched circuit board for a
close approximation of the diagram I published.
The whole amplifier fits on a 1.9 x 2.5" ECB.
I'll order boards tonight and should have them
Friday of next week . . . although I'll be
out of town Friday through Wednesday next. In any
case, let me stuff one board and make sure
that we don't need to tweak some values. The
minimum order on boards is six . . . if
there are no serious errors, I'll have 5 or
six boards to offer for those who would like
to take a whack at their own iso-amp . . .
and I'll publish the board layout files
(Experesspcb.com) and some pictures as to
how it goes together.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Aux battery Low Voltage notification |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:35 AM 3/9/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glles.Thesee"
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>Bob,
>
>Our project is single alternator, dual battery with LVW-ABMM.
>Concerning your LVW-ABMM diagram, I'd like to have a 'Aux Bat Low Voltage'
>notification for the aux battery, instead of the 'Aux Bat On' light.
>Do the following solutions make sense ?
>
>- Discard the light, and install a LVW module sensing the Aux Bat voltage,
>but fed from the Main Power Bus, to avoid illumination when the master
>switch is off.
You need either (1) relay to control aux battery power to the LVW
module when the system is shut down. The LVW module draws
about 10mA which is about 30-100 times the self-discharge
current of your RG battery . . . will run it down in due
course -OR- (2) make the AUX battery master a two-pole switch
and use second pole to control power to the LVW module.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Galls flasher FS039 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan@hotmail.com>
Q:
Does anyone have actual experience with this flasher in an RV ?
Instead of hard-wiring the flasher to the power and using the built-in
switch to control the lights, can you leave the built-in switch permanently
on, and install a switch on the instrument panel to control the power TO the
unit with the same functionality ?
Thanks,
Amit.
PS:
http://www.galls.com/shop/viewProductDetail.jsp?item=FS039
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