Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:31 AM - Re: Re: RG battery mounting positions (Paul Messinger)
2. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: runaway, self regulated alternators (Paul Messinger)
3. 08:34 AM - Re: Re: RG battery mounting positions (John Rourke)
4. 08:46 AM - Re: runaway, self regulated alternators (David Swartzendruber)
5. 11:56 AM - Firewall penetraton for wires (Hebeard2@aol.com)
6. 12:34 PM - Re: Firewall penetraton for wires (Ron Triano)
7. 01:15 PM - Wire Gauge for Whelen strobes? (Scott Richardson)
8. 02:25 PM - Genave Beta 5000 (Tom Brusehaver)
9. 03:02 PM - Re: Firewall penetraton for wires (Benford2@aol.com)
10. 03:05 PM - Starter concerns with FADEC and EFIS (TimRhod@aol.com)
11. 03:10 PM - Re: Wire Gauge for Whelen strobes? (Phil Birkelbach)
12. 07:35 PM - Re: Wire Gauge for Whelen strobes? (John Loram)
13. 09:47 PM - Re: Re: RG battery mounting positions (Aucountry@aol.com)
14. 11:10 PM - Re: Re: RG battery mounting positions (Jim Jewell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RE: RG battery mounting positions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@tenforward.com>
Bob's reply to the original question was upside down was fine. As for on the
side i am just quoting what the tect department at concord told me on the
phone some 5 years ago. Any position is fine for discharge but strongly
recommended upright for charging.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: RG battery mounting positions
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber"
<dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
>
> Don Grunke, who is an engineer that works for Concorde Battery out of
> their Wichita office, happens to be sitting down the hall from me as I
> write. I just asked him about mounting Concorde RG batteries in strange
> orientations and he said that on their side is fine. The only reason
> they don't recommend upside down mounting is because it's possible that
> some liquid could escape through the safety vent if the battery was
> overcharged and forced to vent a little. This vent is normally closed
> and only opens briefly if the pressure inside the battery becomes too
> great.
>
> Dave in Wichita
>
>
>> >
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger"
> > > <paulm@tenforward.com>
> > >
> > > Many mfgrs include insytructions to not mount that way as the vents
> can
> > > then discharge caustic materials.
> > >
> > > Concord told me to not even mount on its side.
> > >
> > > What ever
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > >> Mount it in any position. Upside down if you like.
> > >>
> > >> Bob . . .
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: runaway, self regulated alternators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@tenforward.com>
Bob
Thanks for the extended reply.
However its hard to ignore the melted alternator I had in my hands years
ago. That convinced me that an internal failure could keep the voltage low
enough so the shorted current had time to heat things up and one could not
count on the field acting as a fuse. The theory was a diode failure started
things.
Regardless of our differences I personally would never consider a regulator
that could not be controlled fully. Thus no internal regulator with
connections to the "B" lead. Its just not worth the small cost savings.
Paul
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RE: RG battery mounting positions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
The folks at Optima said their batteries are mounted in every position,
even upside-down, from commercial to military uses. Their most common
battery, though is 56AH at 37#; I understand there is one that is
somewhat lighter (but still well over 20#)
They even offered to provide me the same bracket they sell to the
military to mount it in strange positions; normally it is $10, but for
some reason they offered to send it to me gratis...
-John R.
Paul Messinger wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@tenforward.com>
>
> Bob's reply to the original question was upside down was fine. As for on the
> side i am just quoting what the tect department at concord told me on the
> phone some 5 years ago. Any position is fine for discharge but strongly
> recommended upright for charging.
>
> Paul
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: RG battery mounting positions
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber"
>
> <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
>
>>Don Grunke, who is an engineer that works for Concorde Battery out of
>>their Wichita office, happens to be sitting down the hall from me as I
>>write. I just asked him about mounting Concorde RG batteries in strange
>>orientations and he said that on their side is fine. The only reason
>>they don't recommend upside down mounting is because it's possible that
>>some liquid could escape through the safety vent if the battery was
>>overcharged and forced to vent a little. This vent is normally closed
>>and only opens briefly if the pressure inside the battery becomes too
>>great.
>>
>>Dave in Wichita
>>
>>
>>
>>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger"
>>>><paulm@tenforward.com>
>>>>
>>>>Many mfgrs include insytructions to not mount that way as the vents
>>>
>>can
>>
>>>>then discharge caustic materials.
>>>>
>>>>Concord told me to not even mount on its side.
>>>>
>>>>What ever
>>>>
>>>>Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Mount it in any position. Upside down if you like.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob . . .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: runaway, self regulated alternators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
> I personally would never consider a regulator
> that could not be controlled fully. Thus no internal regulator with
> connections to the "B" lead. Its just not worth the small cost
savings.
>
> Paul
>
Have you considered the routing of the field wire and "B" lead from
alternator? Often, they are routed together for at least some distance.
If they were to ever short together, you would have a runaway alternator
that would not be shut down even if power to the regulator was
disconnected. I saw a Cessna 206 once where the "B" lead and field
passed through the front engine baffle together. The bundle was
chaffing against the cat grommet, and had worn clear through the
insulation of the "B" lead. I don't recall what the insulation on the
field wire looked like. Nothing had happened yet, but it looked like it
could if given enough time. The issue was resolved by clamping the
bundle right there at the hole in the baffle, not allowing it to get
against the edge of the hole any more.
I bring this up just to remind everyone that even with an externally
regulated alternator, how you route, secure, and protect the field wire
and "B" lead is important to insure you don't completely bypass your
super duper crowbar OV protection.
Dave in Wichita
Message 5
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| Subject: | Firewall penetraton for wires |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hebeard2@aol.com
Subject: Firewall Penetration for Wires.
All,
A short time ago some kind soul (whose name I have forgotten) told us all the
identification of stainless steel towel Bars available from Home Depot to be
used for firewall penetration. Being one of the certified dummies building an
airplane, I went to my neighborhood Home Depot today, and had the following
experience.
First of all I couldn't find any stainless steel towel bars, but with the
help of a sales person I found stainless steel Grab Bars. I couldn't find any
with the stock number given, but they did have quite a selection. Most were
1.5" in diameter rather than 1.25". The various stock numbers referred to
varying finishes available to facilitate good friction when grasping. There
were some 1.25" diameter in 24" length which cost $33.00. Searching for a
shorter length, I found an 18" length in 1.5" diameter for $19.96 (Stock #
6318, Satin Stainless Steel). Since length means nothing for our purposes,
and I am cheap, this is the one I bought. I figure the firestop to plug the
extra .25" wouldn't cost $13.00. Don't get too hung up on stock numbers, look
at the product under Grab Bars.
Harley E. Beard
RV-6A, Finishing Kit
Message 6
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| Subject: | Firewall penetraton for wires |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron Triano" <rondefly@pacbell.net>
Hi Harvey, since I was the one with the stainless towel/ grab bar
suggestion, I am supprised you found a salesman in Home depot that knew
what supplies were in their department. If you happen to be a capable
stainless welder you could just use a piece of tubing with a flange
welded to the end. I am squishing mine with the flange on the firewall
side with fire caulking then over filling the interior of the tube and
wire with the same caulking. The caulking is readilly available in
varying temp's.
Hope this helps
Ron Triano
Soon to be a Q-200 driver.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Hebeard2@aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Firewall penetraton for wires
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hebeard2@aol.com
Subject: Firewall Penetration for Wires.
All,
A short time ago some kind soul (whose name I have forgotten) told us
all the
identification of stainless steel towel Bars available from Home Depot
to be
used for firewall penetration. Being one of the certified dummies
building an
airplane, I went to my neighborhood Home Depot today, and had the
following
experience.
First of all I couldn't find any stainless steel towel bars, but with
the
help of a sales person I found stainless steel Grab Bars. I couldn't
find any
with the stock number given, but they did have quite a selection. Most
were
1.5" in diameter rather than 1.25". The various stock numbers referred
to
varying finishes available to facilitate good friction when grasping.
There
were some 1.25" diameter in 24" length which cost $33.00. Searching for
a
shorter length, I found an 18" length in 1.5" diameter for $19.96 (Stock
#
6318, Satin Stainless Steel). Since length means nothing for our
purposes,
and I am cheap, this is the one I bought. I figure the firestop to plug
the
extra .25" wouldn't cost $13.00. Don't get too hung up on stock numbers,
look
at the product under Grab Bars.
Harley E. Beard
RV-6A, Finishing Kit
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Wire Gauge for Whelen strobes? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Richardson <scott_m_richardson@sbcglobal.net>
I had a some questions on wiring Whelen strobe lights
that I just can't seem to find answers to in the
archive.
I'm intending to run shielded wire from a single power
supply (HDA,CF) to two A600 units in the wingtips -
this
distance is about 15' max on each side. The Whelen
install kit cabling is 16 ga 3/c shielded. My
questions are:
o Do I really need this large a wire for this length
run or would 18 ga (or smaller) suffice? I figure
that Whelen used 16 ga as a catch-all to allow runs
of arbitary (within limits) length. I'd rather save
some money and weight by using lighter gauge.
o Do all three wires need to be the same gauge?
I'm guessing that the Anode (red) and Ground
(black)
should be the same, but can the Trigger (white)
which is carrying half the voltage (200v vs 425v)
be
smaller? (There doesn't seem to be any info
I can find on the amperage on these lines).
o Along those lines, if I'm running three separate
wires, do they all need to be shielded? And if
not, which ones?
o Other than easier wiring, is there an advantage to
3/c shielded vs having three separately shielded
conductors?
Thanks for any and all help.
Scott
Message 8
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| Subject: | Genave Beta 5000 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tom Brusehaver <cozytom@mn.rr.com>
I just picked up a Genave Beta 5000 Transponder,
looks great, yellow tag and all (3-3-03).
Anyone know where I can get a plug that matches
the one attached? It is about 1-1/2" round.
Looks similar to an old octal tube. There are
12-15 pins out of it.
I do have a wiring diagram, so I am ok there,
I'd just rather have the correct plug before
I chop off what is there already.
Thanks
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall penetraton for wires |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 3/14/2003 12:58:18 PM Mountain Standard Time,
Hebeard2@aol.com writes:
>
>
> First of all I couldn't find any stainless steel towel bars, but with the
> help of a sales person I found stainless steel Grab Bars. I couldn't find
> any
> with the stock number given, but they did have quite a selection. Most were
>
> 1.5" in diameter rather than 1.25". The various stock numbers referred to
> varying finishes available to facilitate good friction when grasping. There
>
> were some 1.25" diameter in 24" length which cost $33.00. Searching for a
> shorter length, I found an 18" length in 1.5" diameter for $19.96 (Stock #
> 6318, Satin Stainless Steel). Since length means nothing for our purposes,
> and I am cheap, this is the one I bought. I figure the firestop to plug the
>
> extra .25" wouldn't cost $13.00. Don't get too hung up on stock numbers,
> look
> at the product under Grab Bars.
>
> Harley E. Beard
> RV-6A, Finishing Kit
>
Thanks for doing all the leg work on this. I will be using those same grab
bars too. Ben Haas N801BH.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Starter concerns with FADEC and EFIS |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
In a message dated 3/14/2003 5:25:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cozytom@mn.rr.com writes:
> <A HREF="mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com">aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Bob and others:
Ive been thinking of solutions to some of the things we have been discussing
concerning voltage drop when starting FADEC engines. Also concern over
voltage spikes or low voltage problems with the EFIS/ONE during starting.
Here is what I came up with. Using Z-14 DBDA Put all avionics one one bus.
For me I think this will be a avionics bus with quad feed. One from main bus
through diode and avionics master switch. Second from Alternate bus through
diode and avionics secondary master switch. Master switches are included in
case EFIS systems need isolated as Greg Ricktor seems to think they should
be. Third and fourth essential feeds from main batt buss and alternate batt
buss on one switch that would choose one or the other. Cross feed contactor
will not have starter switch included. Starter switch will be seperate. Here
is how I envision it working. During start up sequence the avionics bus can
be feed through the alternative electrical system. So the Efis/One is powered
up from that source. Also the FADEC ignition is powered from the Alternate
battery. The main battery is used to start the engine The cross feed is kept
open at this point so the two electrical systems never affect each other. If
you needed both batteries to start you would not turn on avionics bus until
engine started. You wouldnt have you oil pressure immediatly but this
shouldnt be a common occurance to need both batteries for starting. It seem
to me that this allows the Efis/One and the FADEC ing. to be at 12.5 volts
continually during engine start-up. What do you think?
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Wire Gauge for Whelen strobes? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
I am installing the Nova power supply in my RV-7 with about the same
distance you are discussing and Nova told me to use 18AWG 3C Sheilded. I
have not run the strobes yet with this wire so I can't comment on whether it
works or not.
If you find a better way don't tell me because I don't want to know AFTER I
spent all the money. :-)
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Richardson" <scott_m_richardson@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire Gauge for Whelen strobes?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Richardson
<scott_m_richardson@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I had a some questions on wiring Whelen strobe lights
> that I just can't seem to find answers to in the
> archive.
>
> I'm intending to run shielded wire from a single power
> supply (HDA,CF) to two A600 units in the wingtips -
> this
> distance is about 15' max on each side. The Whelen
> install kit cabling is 16 ga 3/c shielded. My
> questions are:
>
> o Do I really need this large a wire for this length
> run or would 18 ga (or smaller) suffice? I figure
> that Whelen used 16 ga as a catch-all to allow runs
> of arbitary (within limits) length. I'd rather save
>
> some money and weight by using lighter gauge.
>
> o Do all three wires need to be the same gauge?
> I'm guessing that the Anode (red) and Ground
> (black)
> should be the same, but can the Trigger (white)
> which is carrying half the voltage (200v vs 425v)
> be
> smaller? (There doesn't seem to be any info
> I can find on the amperage on these lines).
>
> o Along those lines, if I'm running three separate
> wires, do they all need to be shielded? And if
> not, which ones?
>
> o Other than easier wiring, is there an advantage to
> 3/c shielded vs having three separately shielded
> conductors?
>
> Thanks for any and all help.
>
> Scott
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Wire Gauge for Whelen strobes? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Loram <johnl@loram.org>
Aeroflash techsupport recommends shielded 18 gauge three wire cable with the
shield connected at the powersuppy end (not used to provide a ground
connection at the outboard end).
-john-
john@loram.org
www.loram.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Birkelbach [mailto:phil@petrasoft.net]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Gauge for Whelen strobes?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach"
<phil@petrasoft.net>
I am installing the Nova power supply in my RV-7 with about the same
distance you are discussing and Nova told me to use 18AWG 3C Sheilded. I
have not run the strobes yet with this wire so I can't comment on whether it
works or not.
If you find a better way don't tell me because I don't want to know AFTER I
spent all the money. :-)
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Richardson" <scott_m_richardson@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire Gauge for Whelen strobes?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Richardson
<scott_m_richardson@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I had a some questions on wiring Whelen strobe lights
> that I just can't seem to find answers to in the
> archive.
>
> I'm intending to run shielded wire from a single power
> supply (HDA,CF) to two A600 units in the wingtips -
> this
> distance is about 15' max on each side. The Whelen
> install kit cabling is 16 ga 3/c shielded. My
> questions are:
>
> o Do I really need this large a wire for this length
> run or would 18 ga (or smaller) suffice? I figure
> that Whelen used 16 ga as a catch-all to allow runs
> of arbitary (within limits) length. I'd rather save
>
> some money and weight by using lighter gauge.
>
> o Do all three wires need to be the same gauge?
> I'm guessing that the Anode (red) and Ground
> (black)
> should be the same, but can the Trigger (white)
> which is carrying half the voltage (200v vs 425v)
> be
> smaller? (There doesn't seem to be any info
> I can find on the amperage on these lines).
>
> o Along those lines, if I'm running three separate
> wires, do they all need to be shielded? And if
> not, which ones?
>
> o Other than easier wiring, is there an advantage to
> 3/c shielded vs having three separately shielded
> conductors?
>
> Thanks for any and all help.
>
> Scott
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RE: RG battery mounting positions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
Anyone on this list ever get an RG battery approved in a cerified plane?
Especially now with the way the FAA is (more) messed up?
Gary
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: RE: RG battery mounting positions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hello Gary,
Seek out the Concord Battery site for one. They sell Certified RG sealed
lead acid batteries for Certified aircraft and have done so for some number
of years now.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: <Aucountry@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: RG battery mounting positions
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
>
> Anyone on this list ever get an RG battery approved in a cerified plane?
> Especially now with the way the FAA is (more) messed up?
>
> Gary
>
>
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