Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:16 AM - GM low oil sensor redux (Mark Means)
2. 05:00 AM - Re: Too close to my compass? (John Slade)
3. 05:33 AM - Re: GM low oil sensor, bum advise (Dennis O'Connor)
4. 05:46 AM - Re: Re: exploding Jet-A (Dennis O'Connor)
5. 06:07 AM - Re: GM low oil sensor redux (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:30 AM - pin outs (cary rhodes)
7. 06:38 AM - Re: relay switch protection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 08:19 AM - Re: pin outs (Phil Birkelbach)
9. 08:54 AM - Re: Re: exploding Jet-A (John Rourke)
10. 09:07 AM - Re: Re: runaway, self regulated alternators (Paul Messinger)
11. 09:27 AM - Re: pin outs (Cy Galley)
12. 10:33 AM - Re: Re: exploding Jet-A (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 11:16 AM - Re: runaway, self regulated alternators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 11:18 AM - off line again . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 11:43 AM - Re: off line again . . . (Canyon)
16. 01:32 PM - Re: off line again . . . (Tony Babb)
17. 01:32 PM - Re: off line again . . . (Lonnie Benson)
18. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: Microair radio (Lonnie Benson)
19. 01:46 PM - Re: off line again . . . (Canyon)
20. 05:33 PM - Seminar (Donald Maziarz)
21. 05:34 PM - Call the ball ?? (Tony Babb)
22. 05:49 PM - Re: Call the ball ?? (Billie Lamb)
23. 06:32 PM - Re: Call the ball ?? (John Slade)
24. 06:41 PM - Re: Call the ball ?? (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
25. 09:00 PM - Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. (Julia)
26. 09:33 PM - Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. (Robert McCallum)
27. 09:44 PM - Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. (richard@riley.net)
28. 09:58 PM - Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. (Dan Checkoway)
29. 10:09 PM - Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. (Jim V. Wickert)
30. 10:23 PM - Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. (N67BT@aol.com)
31. 10:28 PM - Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. (N67BT@aol.com)
32. 10:33 PM - Re: Call the ball ?? (Tony Babb)
33. 10:48 PM - Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. (Ed Holyoke)
34. 11:18 PM - Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. (richard@riley.net)
35. 11:22 PM - Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. (Gerry Holland)
Message 1
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| Subject: | GM low oil sensor redux |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Means" <rgvelocity@lmf.net>
Maybe I missed it in the continuing discussion of fuel tank explosions.... but
my original question was whether anyone had any experience with these inductive
type switches and knew whether they are designed for direct application of 12volts
or something less (I would prefer to not fry it finding out) :)
Also, was there a final consensus on the contactor/diode question (bigger diode,
TVS, or just say no)? Thanks.
Mark
Message 2
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| Subject: | Too close to my compass? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
> You need to keep all wiring as far as possible from compass.
As a data point on this, I just moved some wires for landing and nav lights
which were deflecting the panel mount compass 30 degrees when running past
it one inch away. At 3 inches the deflection was barely noticable - maybe 2
degrees. At 6 inches I couldnt see any deflection at all. I moved the wires
18 away. For some reason, a fuel pump wire didnt have any effect, even at 1
inch.
John SLade
Cozy IV
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: GM low oil sensor, bum advise |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor@chartermi.net>
There was a 'B' in the name somewhere :)
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GM low oil sensor, bum advise
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
>
> Wasn't that in Bangkok? The prime minister was to board the aircraft a
> couple of hours later. Initial talk was an assassination attempt. Later
> they said it was the center tank.
>
> Ed Holyoke
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> > aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis O'Connor
> > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 8:07 AM
> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GM low oil sensor, bum advise
> >
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor"
> > <doconnor@chartermi.net>
> >
> > And the center tank that exploded and burned on the ramp in Bahrain in
> > front
> > of cameras and witnesses was bogus also?
> > (I think it was Bahrain - if not feel free to correct the location)
> >
> > Denny
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GM low oil sensor, bum advise
> >
> >
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> > <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> > >
> > > At 06:37 PM 3/17/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Finn Lassen
> > <finnlassen@netzero.net>
> > > >
> > > >Ok, I see.
> > > >
> > > >Could have been spectacular though: full battery voltage across a
> > switch
> > > >no longer fully submerged in oil. Wonder if the flash would have
> been
> > > >enough to ignite the oil?
> > >
> > > If it were a little bit of oil in a large volume
> > > of air, perhaps. You can't ignite a fuel that
> > > doesn't also have the right ratio of oxygen to
> > > go along with the ignition event. That's what's
> > > so bogus about the official story of root-cause
> > > for TWA800 . . .
> > >
> > > If you've ever done explosion proof testing of
> > > products you'll know how DIFFICULT it is to get
> > > the right ratio for explosive mixture even when
> > > your trying to do it right. Any time the fuel
> > > is in great excess compared to oxygen, the system
> > > is as inert as a rock. Stuff like gunpowder works
> > > anytime because the chemical reaction provides
> > > its own oxygen in an otherwise closed environment.
> > > It's a really neat thing that gasoline and its
> > > cousins make such lousy bombs.
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: exploding Jet-A |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor@chartermi.net>
Fine Bob... Not wanting to get into a hoohaa over it...
In a previous lifetime I happened to hang around the plant engineering
department of a small, multinational automobile corporation... One of our
perenniel problems was the exploding 55 gallon, steel drum... One in
particular I remember was a millwright that managed to blow up a kerosene
drum (similar to Jet A) that he was chiseling the top off from, with an
airpowered chisel... At that point I issued an absolute ban on reusing 55
gallon drums, which cost us some money but saved a lot more in the long
run...
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: exploding Jet-A
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 12:16 PM 3/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke
> ><jrourke@allied-computer.com>
> >
> >I believe you are referring to a 737 in Manila in May 1990?
> >
> >Although explosive residue was not found, the possibility remains - I
> >read a report where the passenger decking being pushed upwards was
> >claimed to not be consistent with a fuel-tank explosion... but I haven't
> >read much on it, just wanted to mention that the root cause of that one
> >is still debated.
> >
> >No other fuel-tank explosions are known in 80 years of airline
> >recordkeeping, according to the same reports.
> >
> >-John R.
>
> >Dennis O'Connor wrote:
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor"
> > <doconnor@chartermi.net>
> > >
> > > And the center tank that exploded and burned on the ramp in Bahrain in
> > front
> > > of cameras and witnesses was bogus also?
> > > (I think it was Bahrain - if not feel free to correct the location)
>
> There has been an exhaustive study of public data on
> the TWA800 incident. I've read quite a bit of it with
> particular interest discussions illuminated with
> logic and good physics. Like all such cases, there
> are plenty of "fog generators" in the discussion
> including conspiracy theorists and (not the least
> of which) are agencies of government with competing
> agendas.
>
> The tank in question had to have unusable and/or
> unused liquid fuel in it. I am mystified as to how
> the vapor-space in any closed volume with liquid in
> the bottom, dilutes what would normally be a nearly
> saturated mixture of fuel/air down to a
> stoichiometric ratio required for combustion with
> a high release of energy with any fuel, much less
> Jet-A. This is but ONE of many questions which I
> find puzzling.
>
> You're free to evaluate for yourself. There are
> many reasons to be suspicious of the engineering
> and investigative techniques . . . but be prepared
> to spend some time looking through the details.
>
> check out www.twa800.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~neteagle/
>
> Here's but one of many examples of logical, detailed and
> independent analysis to be found with a bit of
> websearching . . .
>
> http://www.compassionateweb.net/~missiletwa800/mann.htm
>
> and as a tip of the iceberg . . .
>
> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24075
> http://twa800.com/news/Stalcup.htm
> http://www.flight800.org/sketch.htm
> http://www.multipull.com/twacasefile/second649.html
> http://twa800.com/images/exhibit22c_radar.pdf
>
> It's a complex puzzle but in the final analysis, only
> the RIGHT pieces fit together into the real picture.
> I've found the reasoning of a number of folks to
> be compelling and in direct contradiction with
> the officially published accounts.
>
> If you feel compelled to learn and/or enjoy putting
> big puzzles together one could do worse than study
> what's out there on TWA800.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: GM low oil sensor redux |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:11 AM 3/21/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Means" <rgvelocity@lmf.net>
>
>Maybe I missed it in the continuing discussion of fuel tank explosions....
>but my original question was whether anyone had any experience with these
>inductive type switches and knew whether they are designed for direct
>application of 12volts or something less (I would prefer to not fry it
>finding out) :)
Don't understand this question. What's an "inductive
type" switch? Any switch is limited by it's physical
attributes and operating characteristics as described
in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf
what are the ratings for the device you're considering.
When you wrote something about putting 12v directly
across the switch, were you saying that you blew it
up by having the switch hard-fault a 12v source? What
does this switch drive? The best thing is for the switch
to close to ground so that only lamp or some small
signal current flows in the switch under any conditions,
normal or faulted.
>Also, was there a final consensus on the contactor/diode question (bigger
>diode, TVS, or just say no)?
Haven't had time to wade through the threads on
contactor spike catchers. Did an article on the
subject at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spikecatcher.pdf
. . . the short answer is put a diode across the coil of
any inductive device such as a contactor or solenoid.
It will improve the life of the switching device. All
other concerns for whether or not movs, transorbs,
resistors, capacitors, etc, etc should be part of the
circuit are either myths or insignificant to the task.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: cary rhodes <rhodeseng@yahoo.com>
bob
I have a KT-78 king transponder.
I have a copy of your pin out legend.
But I don't understand the circuit column.
What do the A1, A2, B2 etc. numbers refer to??
Thanks for answering stupid questions a hundred times
I am sure.
cary rhodes
http://platinum.yahoo.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: relay switch protection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>This discussion got started over a shorted battery contactor coil dampening
>device and the concern of smoke or fire from an UN-fused circuit wired with
>22ga. wire used to supply the ground to the battery contactor. Although very
>unlikely, the contactor's coil could short, and again not very likely, the
>diode used to dampen the contactor's coil could short. All things
>considered, a diode is best for coil dampening performance. Most other
>devices will be a source for ringing or not clamp the voltage as low as can
>be done with a diode. We really are splitting hairs here though. An MOV
>will clamp it at some voltage just over 15 volts -not bad. While a diode
>will clamp it at .6 volts -better. I am going to insert a 5A fuse in my
>grounding leg at the contactor end of the 22ga. wire to be safe I think. One
>could increase the size of the wire to say 16, 12, 10 , etc., and let the
>shorted diode or coil become the fuse! I am not concerned about a failure
>that results in an open circuit. That will just have to be a failure that
>requires picking a spot to land. I just want to be reasonable enough to
>protect my ship from smoke in the cockpit.
>
>Again, this one circuit may be cause for concern only in the very remote
>chance that the contactor's coil shorts or the diode punches through. A
>simple fuse can set us all at ease.
True . . . but take care lest we become "uneasy" about
a whole lot of things that are so far down on the ladder
of concerns. The scenario you hypothesized, while obviously
not ZERO risk, it's tiny compared to the risk of your
wing bolts shearing off or your propeller flying away.
It's like those articles you read by new journalism
graduates who advise that you keep a first aid kit
in your car . . . I'll bet those articles have
precipitated the sales of bizillions of first aid
kits (you can find them in the automotive section
of any Walmart). In 40 years of driving a car, I
cannot recall a single instance of wishing I'd
bought that first aid kit. I've had several instances
where "aid" was necessary, but nothing contained
in that little tin box was going to be helpful.
Let's not load our airplanes up with "little tin
boxes" . . .
Bob . . .
>John P. Marzluf
>Columbus, Ohio
>Outback, (out back in the garage)
>
>
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
Those are the encoder inputs, I believe.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "cary rhodes" <rhodeseng@yahoo.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: pin outs
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: cary rhodes <rhodeseng@yahoo.com>
>
> bob
>
> I have a KT-78 king transponder.
>
> I have a copy of your pin out legend.
>
> But I don't understand the circuit column.
>
> What do the A1, A2, B2 etc. numbers refer to??
>
>
> Thanks for answering stupid questions a hundred times
> I am sure.
>
> cary rhodes
>
>
> http://platinum.yahoo.com
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: exploding Jet-A |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
But, did it have any liquid fuel in it? If not, the air-fuel mixture
could get to a stoichiometric level to support combustion.
Plus, in using the air chisel you are introducing an opening through
which air can enter, which can certainly allow it to achieve the proper
air-fuel ratio for combustion (even if there was alittle liquid in the
bottom), AND providing the spark for ignition... baaaad idea!
But, a sealed fuel tank does not provide the same scenario as far as I
can tell.
-John
Dennis O'Connor wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor@chartermi.net>
>
> Fine Bob... Not wanting to get into a hoohaa over it...
> In a previous lifetime I happened to hang around the plant engineering
> department of a small, multinational automobile corporation... One of our
> perenniel problems was the exploding 55 gallon, steel drum... One in
> particular I remember was a millwright that managed to blow up a kerosene
> drum (similar to Jet A) that he was chiseling the top off from, with an
> airpowered chisel... At that point I issued an absolute ban on reusing 55
> gallon drums, which cost us some money but saved a lot more in the long
> run...
>
> Denny
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: exploding Jet-A
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>>At 12:16 PM 3/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke
>>><jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>>>
>>>I believe you are referring to a 737 in Manila in May 1990?
>>>
>>>Although explosive residue was not found, the possibility remains - I
>>>read a report where the passenger decking being pushed upwards was
>>>claimed to not be consistent with a fuel-tank explosion... but I haven't
>>>read much on it, just wanted to mention that the root cause of that one
>>>is still debated.
>>>
>>>No other fuel-tank explosions are known in 80 years of airline
>>>recordkeeping, according to the same reports.
>>>
>>>-John R.
>>
>>>Dennis O'Connor wrote:
>>>
>>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor"
>>>
>>><doconnor@chartermi.net>
>>>
>>>>And the center tank that exploded and burned on the ramp in Bahrain in
>>>
>>>front
>>>
>>>>of cameras and witnesses was bogus also?
>>>>(I think it was Bahrain - if not feel free to correct the location)
>>>
>> There has been an exhaustive study of public data on
>> the TWA800 incident. I've read quite a bit of it with
>> particular interest discussions illuminated with
>> logic and good physics. Like all such cases, there
>> are plenty of "fog generators" in the discussion
>> including conspiracy theorists and (not the least
>> of which) are agencies of government with competing
>> agendas.
>>
>> The tank in question had to have unusable and/or
>> unused liquid fuel in it. I am mystified as to how
>> the vapor-space in any closed volume with liquid in
>> the bottom, dilutes what would normally be a nearly
>> saturated mixture of fuel/air down to a
>> stoichiometric ratio required for combustion with
>> a high release of energy with any fuel, much less
>> Jet-A. This is but ONE of many questions which I
>> find puzzling.
>>
>> You're free to evaluate for yourself. There are
>> many reasons to be suspicious of the engineering
>> and investigative techniques . . . but be prepared
>> to spend some time looking through the details.
>>
>> check out www.twa800.com
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~neteagle/
>>
>> Here's but one of many examples of logical, detailed and
>> independent analysis to be found with a bit of
>> websearching . . .
>>
>> http://www.compassionateweb.net/~missiletwa800/mann.htm
>>
>> and as a tip of the iceberg . . .
>>
>> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24075
>> http://twa800.com/news/Stalcup.htm
>> http://www.flight800.org/sketch.htm
>> http://www.multipull.com/twacasefile/second649.html
>> http://twa800.com/images/exhibit22c_radar.pdf
>>
>> It's a complex puzzle but in the final analysis, only
>> the RIGHT pieces fit together into the real picture.
>> I've found the reasoning of a number of folks to
>> be compelling and in direct contradiction with
>> the officially published accounts.
>>
>> If you feel compelled to learn and/or enjoy putting
>> big puzzles together one could do worse than study
>> what's out there on TWA800.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: runaway, self regulated alternators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@tenforward.com>
I see no point to beating a dead horse.
I resent your 'shot' about me not acting like an engineer You simply do not
know the extent of my training and experience. I simply am unwilling to
present facts based on unproven conjecture and or no longer or never known.
There is not always an clear engineering determination of the failure
method.
Surely you do not mean to infer that the the use of the "B" lead contactor
will prevent ALL failures that could cause overheating of the alternator.
I did have a shorted out (burned up) alternator, the damage was too large to
analyze properly. Several electrical engineers concluded the failure could
have been from shorted diodes in the alternator diode module and that
produced an internal load that prevented the high voltage that could over
current the field and shut the "heat" down. There was no indication of
external over loading or external overvoltage.
This was many years ago. As a design engineer I have found there is little
need to recall why things are not good designs as long as you remember that
an approach is not good and there is a better one that is available.
As you know one cannot always determine the initial cause of the failure,
but when most any assumption can be eliminated by a simple alternative
design, simply select the better approach and go on.
I would have presented proof if there was any ever determined. The engineers
doing the analysis concluded that an internal diode failure could result in
a shorted winding that would essentially short the alternator out preventing
overvoltage while all the current was used to heat the primary winding that
was shorted. Frankly I do not understand your not recognizing that failure
mode.
Your suggestion that the only failure method would result in an overvoltage
and resulting field fusing open is only one failure mode and while it may be
the most likely it is not in my experience the only one.
In any event I stand by my position that its safer to externally regulate
the alternator and is so easy to do. Simply use a different alternator or
modify the one you insist using. Small light 40-60 amp alternators are
available so why not use them. I disagree good alternators are hard to find.
Harder perhaps but they are out there.
Also I have looked at many ND alternators and also would not use them in an
aircraft. Common yes, simple to modify NO, poor slipring life, very common.
Not one found out of dozens from a junk yard had usable sliprings. The
position and seal used for slipring protection all flails to varying extent
and allowed grit inside and the sliprings were heavily worn down.
Why spend the same amount $ for the ND or much more for a converted ND when
other brands are similar in size and weight?, and better suited to aircraft
use.
Not that ND are bad, but I would suggest your comments about stamped sub "D"
pins vs machined pins is a similar case. Perhaps the stamped pins are harder
to properly use but properly assembled are the additional costs of machined
pins worth it? With proper harness support most wiring will outlast the
aircraft.
I fly a 67 Cessna from time to time and fine the factory wiring and wireing
support is the worst example of what seems to work in spite of what good
wiring should be.
I would not use a ND on my acft. Why spend 30-60K on an acft and save $100
or so on a lesser alternator.
I do not intend to keep this thread going with further comments. I think its
been beaten too much already. Sorry if I have failed to provide a suitable
(to you) reply.
Paul
> Let's be engineers here and dispel lingering
> doubts on the part of some who read this list. This
> is an IMPORTANT discussion Paul. The availability
> of alternators easily modified for external
> regulation is low. Availability of off-the-
> car alternators with stellar track records
> and built in regulators is high. If we're
> going to take advantage of what SHOULD be
> a trend toward utilization of commercial off
> the shelf products, we need to offer our
> brothers and sisters good reasons and lucid
> explanations for our recommendations based
> on the best engineering we know.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 11
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Those are the data lines for your encoder.
----- Original Message -----
From: "cary rhodes" <rhodeseng@yahoo.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: pin outs
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: cary rhodes <rhodeseng@yahoo.com>
>
> bob
>
> I have a KT-78 king transponder.
>
> I have a copy of your pin out legend.
>
> But I don't understand the circuit column.
>
> What do the A1, A2, B2 etc. numbers refer to??
>
>
> Thanks for answering stupid questions a hundred times
> I am sure.
>
> cary rhodes
>
>
> http://platinum.yahoo.com
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: exploding Jet-A |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:42 AM 3/21/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor"
><doconnor@chartermi.net>
>
>Fine Bob... Not wanting to get into a hoohaa over it...
>In a previous lifetime I happened to hang around the plant engineering
>department of a small, multinational automobile corporation... One of our
>perenniel problems was the exploding 55 gallon, steel drum... One in
>particular I remember was a millwright that managed to blow up a kerosene
>drum (similar to Jet A) that he was chiseling the top off from, with an
>airpowered chisel... At that point I issued an absolute ban on reusing 55
>gallon drums, which cost us some money but saved a lot more in the long
>run...
it's a sure bet he thought he was doing a good thing
by working on a container that was "empty" . . . when
in fact, he would have been better off if it had been
half full.
A weld shop down the street from me when I was a kid
got a guy killed when he put a torch to a tank that
had been "washed out" . . . the same weld shop is
still there. They flush tanks to be repaired with
CO2 now . . .
The nose is an excellent safety tool here . . . but
if one smokes, perhaps that tool is compromised.
If you can smell any remnant of the stuff that
used to occupy the volume, you're not through
cleaning it -OR- you fill the volume with CO2 before
you start working on it.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: runaway, self regulated alternators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:52 AM 3/21/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger"
><paulm@tenforward.com>
>
>I see no point to beating a dead horse.
>
>I resent your 'shot' about me not acting like an engineer You simply do not
>know the extent of my training and experience. I simply am unwilling to
>present facts based on unproven conjecture and or no longer or never known.
>There is not always an clear engineering determination of the failure
>method.
I said let US be good engineers here . . . perhaps it is I who
needs enlightened . . . I have offered data and hypothesis based
on what I believe is a logical assimilation of facts. So far,
you have voiced only concerns based on some smoked alternators
you have experienced/observed.
>Surely you do not mean to infer that the the use of the "B" lead contactor
>will prevent ALL failures that could cause overheating of the alternator.
Of course not, I've seen both internally and externally regulated
alternators go up in smoke with severe damage. In every case,
the alternators were connected to external loads during the
entire destruction sequence.
>I did have a shorted out (burned up) alternator, the damage was too large to
>analyze properly. Several electrical engineers concluded the failure could
>have been from shorted diodes in the alternator diode module and that
>produced an internal load that prevented the high voltage that could over
>current the field and shut the "heat" down. There was no indication of
>external over loading or external overvoltage.
<snip>
>I would have presented proof if there was any ever determined.
Proof based on a single case observation is not what's needed here.
What I was asking for was a failure modes effects analysis that
shows how internal/external alternators stack up with each
other in similar failures.
> . . . The engineers
>doing the analysis concluded that an internal diode failure could result in
>a shorted winding that would essentially short the alternator out preventing
>overvoltage while all the current was used to heat the primary winding that
>was shorted. Frankly I do not understand your not recognizing that failure
>mode.
The failure modes that produce underage smoking on the part of
alternators can happen in both types and yes, without causing
an over-voltage condition . . . in fact, EVERY smoked alternator
I've pulled seen pulled from the wreckage did NOT participate in
an ov event and NONE of them were internally regulated. So
my question is, how is an internally regulated machine any
more hazardous?
>Your suggestion that the only failure method would result in an overvoltage
>and resulting field fusing open is only one failure mode and while it may be
>the most likely it is not in my experience the only one.
I suggested no such thing. Your premise as I understood it
said that an internally regulated alternator presents an increased
risk of fire because of mutually acknowledged OV failure modes that could
not be shut down peaceably from the outside . . . that even when we
included the b-lead contactor to protect the rest of the airplane
from impending doom, the alternator was still an increased risk
because it would operate in what has to be a relatively slow,
self destruction mode that would burn things up.
I offered that in an ov condition and the alternator unhooked from
the ship's systems that (1) the alternator's only load was its own
field winding and (2) the output voltage would do what faulted
alternators do best and rise to levels over 100 volts and (3) the field
winding
would last mere seconds with 25+ amps of current flowing in it.
>In any event I stand by my position that its safer to externally regulate
>the alternator and is so easy to do. Simply use a different alternator or
>modify the one you insist using. Small light 40-60 amp alternators are
>available so why not use them. I disagree good alternators are hard to find.
>Harder perhaps but they are out there.
>
<snip>
>I do not intend to keep this thread going with further comments. I think its
>been beaten too much already. Sorry if I have failed to provide a suitable
>(to you) reply.
We're discussing two different failure scenarios one in which
no OV condition occurs and one where it does. You offered a
opinion for increased hazard due to the way internally regulated
alternators are wired and controlled. I thought I'd laid out
fact that show an ov condition with an internally regulated
but ISOLATED alternator terminates quickly and quietly. Further,
all other failures inclined to smoke the machine can happen with
EITHER type alternator thus making the extra-ordinary hazard for
the off-the-shelf internally regulated alternator difficult to
support. Let US be good engineers and figure out where this is wrong.
If you have an alternator with burned windings, bad diodes, etc
then we're not talking about an ov condition. Should
one become aware of the problem, both kinds alternators can be shut
down . . . except that the internally regulated alternator has
the decided ADVANTAGE of being unhooked from the system via the
b-lead contactor. It's unlikely that a pilot will become aware
of the problem before the alternator fails irretrievably
and disconnects itself via the b-lead fuse or breaker. Now,
if the pilot needs to see through an iced-over window now
gone cold . . . well . . . I've dug through that pile before.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | off line again . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Leaving for Ft. Worth in a few minutes for a couple
of days of good airplane-speak with builders in George
and Becki's hangar. Back late Sunday night.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: off line again . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Canyon <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>Leaving for Ft. Worth in a few minutes for a couple
>of days of good airplane-speak with builders in George
>and Becki's hangar. Back late Sunday night.
Darn! And only a few miles from me! If you're still here, what is the
cost and schedule? I'll see if I can make it if at all possible.
Thanks,
Steve
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: off line again . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tony Babb" <tonybabb@alejandra.net>
Steve,
Check out the AeroElectric home page, the courses are listed there. Cost is
$150 or it was last year when I took it. Highly recommended, best value for
$150 I've gotten so far.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Canyon" <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: off line again . . .
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Canyon <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
>
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> >Leaving for Ft. Worth in a few minutes for a couple
> >of days of good airplane-speak with builders in George
> >and Becki's hangar. Back late Sunday night.
>
> Darn! And only a few miles from me! If you're still here, what is the
> cost and schedule? I'll see if I can make it if at all possible.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: off line again . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lonnie Benson" <lonben@erols.com>
Steve, go to www.aeroelectric.com/seminars/seminars.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Canyon" <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: off line again . . .
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Canyon <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
>
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> >Leaving for Ft. Worth in a few minutes for a couple
> >of days of good airplane-speak with builders in George
> >and Becki's hangar. Back late Sunday night.
>
> Darn! And only a few miles from me! If you're still here, what is the
> cost and schedule? I'll see if I can make it if at all possible.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Microair radio |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lonnie Benson" <lonben@erols.com>
Rino,
Just incase you never received an answer to your question, try
www.xcom760.com. or www.becker-avionics.com.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rino" <lacombr@nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Microair radio
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rino <lacombr@nbnet.nb.ca>
>
> Anyone have information about the new radio similar to the Microair.
> I am looking for a supplier of this radio
>
> Rino
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: off line again . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Canyon <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lonnie Benson"
><lonben@erols.com>
>
>Steve, go to www.aeroelectric.com/seminars/seminars.html
Thanks all for the links...
Steve
do not archive
Message 20
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Donald Maziarz" <n2va@arrl.net>
You Can Fly Them,
But Can You Wire Them?
What: Weekend seminar presented by The AeroElectric
Connection
Hosted by the National Capital Area
Chapter 186,
Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA)
When: June 7 0800 - 1700
June 8 0800 - 1200
Where: Manassas, VA at the Manassas Regional Airport
(HEF),
EAA 186 Chapter House, at the base of the
tower
Learn the ins and outs of wiring your homebuilt or
restoration project airplane.
Not building or restoring, then get a general
understanding of the aircraft
electrical systems.
Bob Nuckolls has 40 years of knowledge to share with
you.
Cost: $150 per person including a copy of Bob's super
book The AeroElectric Connection
Door Prizes
For more information and to register go to the seminar
area at http://www.aeroelectric.com/
Also note Bob's satisfaction guarantee.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Call the ball ?? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tony Babb" <tonybabb@alejandra.net>
I have a small problem with my wife.
I'm building a Velocity in the garage at home and she who must be obeyed
parks her car alongside my Velocity. Recently she's taken to parking very
close to the Velocity (her Ford Explorer wheels pass within three inches of
the Velocity main gear) even though there is plenty of space on the other
side of her car. I've mentioned this a couple of times - big mistake. Sooo
I'm thinking I need to do something to provide her with lateral guidance. I
should mention there's a wooden frame I built to store the wings along the
back wall of the garage so she has to stop before she gets to the storage
rack also.
Options seem to be:
1) I act as a flagman every time she parks in the garage - not very
realistic and probably irritating to her so a non-starter
2) Nail some wood to the floor along the side of the plane and in front of
the storage rack so she'll know if she's too close to the plane or the
storage rack - a bit crude and I'll probably trip over it when I'm working
on the plane - so not a very attractive solution
3) Provide something a bit more sophisticated to provide lateral guidance
and tell her when to stop - much more fun !!
Seems to me what I need is something like a VASI turned sideways that'll
show red if she's too close to the plane and white is she's OK, also a
second light - or flash the VASI -when she should stop.
I've seen the tennis ball on a string hanging from the roof approach and
also seen these laser devices that point down to a spot on the dashboard.
neither seems very attractive so I was wondering if anyone has suggestions
for either the lateral VASI or stop light approach? I would power it from
the garage door opener
I'm electronically challenged so the simpler the better,
Thanks all
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Call the ball ?? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Billie Lamb" <N254BL@cfl.rr.com>
I'd try erecting a cement block wall.
I tried the new wife approach and that cost me a Cessna 172.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Babb" <tonybabb@alejandra.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Call the ball ??
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tony Babb"
<tonybabb@alejandra.net>
>
> I have a small problem with my wife.
>
> I'm building a Velocity in the garage at home and she who must be obeyed
> parks her car alongside my Velocity. Recently she's taken to parking very
> close to the Velocity (her Ford Explorer wheels pass within three inches
of
> the Velocity main gear) even though there is plenty of space on the other
> side of her car. I've mentioned this a couple of times - big mistake. Sooo
> I'm thinking I need to do something to provide her with lateral guidance.
I
> should mention there's a wooden frame I built to store the wings along the
> back wall of the garage so she has to stop before she gets to the storage
> rack also.
>
> Options seem to be:
>
> 1) I act as a flagman every time she parks in the garage - not very
> realistic and probably irritating to her so a non-starter
> 2) Nail some wood to the floor along the side of the plane and in front of
> the storage rack so she'll know if she's too close to the plane or the
> storage rack - a bit crude and I'll probably trip over it when I'm working
> on the plane - so not a very attractive solution
> 3) Provide something a bit more sophisticated to provide lateral guidance
> and tell her when to stop - much more fun !!
>
> Seems to me what I need is something like a VASI turned sideways that'll
> show red if she's too close to the plane and white is she's OK, also a
> second light - or flash the VASI -when she should stop.
>
> I've seen the tennis ball on a string hanging from the roof approach and
> also seen these laser devices that point down to a spot on the dashboard.
> neither seems very attractive so I was wondering if anyone has suggestions
> for either the lateral VASI or stop light approach? I would power it from
> the garage door opener
>
> I'm electronically challenged so the simpler the better,
>
> Thanks all
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Call the ball ?? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
> I'm electronically challenged so the simpler the better,
Hang an expensive crystal vase containing fresh flowers from a wire on
you're side of the garage. Keep the flowers fresh and tell her they're there
to greet her every time she returns home. She'll never drive close to the
vase. You're plane will be safe, and you'll get a bonus point every time she
enters the garage.
John Slade
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Call the ball ?? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
Tony,
I have the exact same situation with my dear little lady. We share a two
door two car garage with my Kitfox and her Toyota V6 Camry. She backs it in
and needs to be positioned a bit to the center so as to have ample room at
the left wall of the garage and the left side of her car. I put a tennis
ball on a rope in the perfect position for her to back up to. It has four
bright LEDs mounted on it that are powered from the door opener's light
circuit to annunciate itself in all lighting conditions. When she is on
target, the ball hits the high mounted break light in the rear window so that
she knows that "docking" is complete.
She only drives about five miles to work every day and so to preheat the
engine in the winter I have installed a cooling jacket block heater that
plugs into a timed outlet to preheat the engine from about 4 AM every
morning. This is my attempt to be sure that her engine has a chance to
obtain full operating temperature for her short run to work. She thinks I am
doing this to give her nearly instant heater output on those cold mornings!
J
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
Message 25
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| Subject: | Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia <wings97302@yahoo.com>
Im trying to get my Infinity stick grip order ready since they take 6 weeks or
more to get. They also indicate they are busy and dont want to be pestered with
questions hence my questions here:
On the Flap switch (button #3 in my case), they mention using a "Vertically mounted
Toggle Switch [(ON)/OFF/(ON) or ON/OFF/(ON) SDPT] for flaps.
Then they mention "Also, we have ON/OFF/ON, ON/ON and ON/OFF Toggle Switches. Note:
brackets around the word "ON" [(ON)] in the Toggle Switch descriptions above
means that the toggle is momentary in that direction."
Later in a description of a standard set up for an aircraft WITH electric Flaps
- on switch #3, they say the following: "Flaps ON/OFF/(ON) toggle switch using
a limit switch on the UP side, or use a spring loaded-to-center (ON)/OFF/(ON)
toggle switch which means youll have to hold the Flap switch UP during a touch-and-go
or go-around - - not a good idea. Most dont use this switch (99+%)."
Im assuming the one I want is the (ON)/OFF/(ON) one. I dont understand their concern
in the paragraph above. I would think with the spring loaded-to-center switch
as long as I held it in the ON position, the flaps would move in that direction
once I let up on the switch it would return to center and the flaps
would stop where they happen to be. Isnt that what I want? Isnt that the way
the switch which came with my flap motor is set up? - The one I already have mounted
on my instrument panel?
I dont want a complicated flap system I just want a motor and an up and down switch
can it work that way?
Would adding a limit switch be a simple matter of a switch to break the line feeding
power to the motor when it runs in the up direction when the flaps get
to a certain point? or does it get more complicated than that?
Any guidance here would be appreciated. Also what might be the benefits of the
ON/OFF/(ON) toggle?
Thanks
---------------------------------
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Julia wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia <wings97302@yahoo.com>
>
> Im trying to get my Infinity stick grip order ready since they take 6 weeks
or more to get. They also indicate they are busy and dont want to be pestered
with questions hence my questions here:
>
> On the Flap switch (button #3 in my case), they mention using a "Vertically mounted
Toggle Switch [(ON)/OFF/(ON) or ON/OFF/(ON) SDPT] for flaps.
>
> Later in a description of a standard set up for an aircraft WITH electric Flaps
- on switch #3, they say the following: "Flaps ON/OFF/(ON) toggle switch using
a limit switch on the UP side, or use a spring loaded-to-center (ON)/OFF/(ON)
toggle switch which means youll have to hold the Flap switch UP during a
touch-and-go or go-around - - not a good idea. Most dont use this switch (99+%)."
Julia;
The idea behind the ON/OFF/(ON) switch combined with an up limit is that when you
want "flaps up" you simply flip the switch to the up position and forget it.
The flaps run all the way up, then stop on the limit switch fully retracted.
In other words in the case of a "go round" you don't have to keep you finger
on the switch. (you can still stop them part way if you wish by turning the switch
off at the desired position) Flaps "down" is the spring loaded position which
you have to hold for
operation and motion stops when you let go where ever the flaps may be at that
time.
--
Bob McC
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
At 08:59 PM 3/21/03 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia <wings97302@yahoo.com>
>
>
>Any guidance here would be appreciated. Also what might be the benefits of
>the ON/OFF/(ON) toggle?
I've used ON-OFF-(ON) for years for a speed brake and agree with JD on this
(there's very little I agree with him on).
If you have to go around, it's very awkward to have to keep pushing the
toggle up to get the flaps or brake to retract when you're also flying with
that hand. So, by making the up position not momentary, you flick it with
your thumb and then forget about it.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
The idea is that if you have to go around, or even in general, it's easiest
if you can just flip the flap switch up and forget about it. The flaps will
go all the way up and stop.
In an RV, though (not sure if that's what you're building), the flap motor
will run endlessly if you leave it in the up position without a limit
switch. There's nothing technically wrong with that (although it could
conceivably wear the motor out prematurely), but it just bothers me
philosophically.
My plan is to install limit swithes for both down and up travel. A down
limit switch because I get about 50 degrees of flap travel if I let the
motor go until it spins, and the plans call for a maximum of 45 degrees. An
up limit switch (NC -- normally closed) because I don't want to mess around
with a momentary switch when I raise the flaps. I want to flip the switch
up and forget about it. The up limit switch will open the circuit when the
flaps reach the full-up position, and the motor will stop spinning.
NOTE: the up limit switch will only be in the UP circuit. The down limit
switch will only be in the DOWN circuit.
If you can live with the momentary up switch thing, then all of this is a
non-issue...you don't need any limit switches.
Hope this helps,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (canopy)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julia" <wings97302@yahoo.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch.
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia <wings97302@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Im trying to get my Infinity stick grip order ready since they take 6
weeks or more to get. They also indicate they are busy and dont want to be
pestered with questions hence my questions here:
>
> On the Flap switch (button #3 in my case), they mention using a
"Vertically mounted Toggle Switch [(ON)/OFF/(ON) or ON/OFF/(ON) SDPT] for
flaps.
>
> Then they mention "Also, we have ON/OFF/ON, ON/ON and ON/OFF Toggle
Switches. Note: brackets around the word "ON" [(ON)] in the Toggle Switch
descriptions above means that the toggle is momentary in that direction."
>
> Later in a description of a standard set up for an aircraft WITH electric
Flaps - on switch #3, they say the following: "Flaps ON/OFF/(ON) toggle
switch using a limit switch on the UP side, or use a spring loaded-to-center
(ON)/OFF/(ON) toggle switch which means youll have to hold the Flap switch
UP during a touch-and-go or go-around - - not a good idea. Most dont use
this switch (99+%)."
>
>
> Im assuming the one I want is the (ON)/OFF/(ON) one. I dont understand
their concern in the paragraph above. I would think with the spring
loaded-to-center switch as long as I held it in the ON position, the flaps
would move in that direction once I let up on the switch it would return
to center and the flaps would stop where they happen to be. Isnt that what I
want? Isnt that the way the switch which came with my flap motor is set
up? - The one I already have mounted on my instrument panel?
>
> I dont want a complicated flap system I just want a motor and an up and
down switch can it work that way?
>
> Would adding a limit switch be a simple matter of a switch to break the
line feeding power to the motor when it runs in the up direction when the
flaps get to a certain point? or does it get more complicated than that?
>
> Any guidance here would be appreciated. Also what might be the benefits of
the ON/OFF/(ON) toggle?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim V. Wickert" <JimW_btg@compuserve.com>
Hi Julia,
For Flap control one question you must ask yourself with the type aircraft
are there only two flap positions needed one being in the take off and the
other being in the landing positions. If you do not need additional
positions for various loading conditions etc. then the simple switch and
two limit switch is all you will require.
Major question I would have with anyone I am spending my hard earned cash
with to purchase their product and there are some options that could be
critical to the application and they had the attitude " indicate they are
busy and dont want to be pestered with questions", I would question even
purchasing from them. Its their product and they should be the expert on
its application and want the customer to end up with the proper
installation. I would look some where else with that attitude.
Maybe we are spoiled from working with Steve Rahm at Vision Aricraft or Bob
at Aeroelectric,these guys are the best, but I know there are several other
companies in the EXP market that would be very happy to work with you in
order to get your business. Just think wha the responce will be if you
have a problem with the product quality of functionality?????
Jim Wickert
Vision #159
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N67BT@aol.com
I guess I'm a one percenter. My grip has the momentary up mode. I tested my
RV flap, full travel time, on the bench - about 5 seconds. I'm not flying
yet so I don't know if that will hold up under load, but it could be even
less. Has anyone timed this in flight with a RV? Other aircraft are
probably different.
I can't imagine a problem moving my thumb 1/2" to hold the flap switch for 5
seconds while manipulating the controls. If I want to bleed off flaps, thumb
movement to stop up flaps takes a much larger digital displacement. I also
didn't think it was worth the extra complexity of the limit switch.
> Most dont use this switch (99+%)
>
Bob Trumpfheller
Building a RV7A in western Colorado
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N67BT@aol.com
I've had just the opposite experience with Infinity. All the help I wanted
and no hurry.
> Major question I would have with anyone I am spending my hard earned cash
> with to purchase their product and there are some options that could be
> critical to the application and they had the attitude " indicate they are
> busy and dont want to be pestered with questions",
Bob Trumpfheller
Building a RV7A in western Colorado
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Call the ball ?? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tony Babb" <tonybabb@alejandra.net>
Genius, pure genius.!!
> Hang an expensive crystal vase containing fresh flowers from a wire on
> you're side of the garage. Keep the flowers fresh and tell her they're
there
> to greet her every time she returns home. She'll never drive close to the
> vase. You're plane will be safe, and you'll get a bonus point every time
she
> enters the garage.
> John Slade
Message 33
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| Subject: | Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
On the other hand, I recently e-mailed some questions and got a response
from JD the next day. I've got one of these grips and it is a good
product. The switches are all wired up with a nice cable. It makes for a
very clean installation. I went with the momentary switch on both up and
down for simplicity and so that I wouldn't forget and leave it running.
I don't think it would be that hard to solder in a new switch if I hate
it that way. I haven't flown it so I'll have to wait and see if I made
the right choice.
If you don't use the momentary, and you don't like the idea of a limit
switch, you could put an indicator light on the panel to remind you to
turn it off when you're done with the go around.
Ed Holyoke
6qb
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim V. Wickert"
> <JimW_btg@compuserve.com>
>
> Hi Julia,
> snip
> Major question I would have with anyone I am spending my hard earned
cash
> with to purchase their product and there are some options that could
be
> critical to the application and they had the attitude " indicate they
are
> busy and dont want to be pestered with questions", I would question
even
> purchasing from them. Its their product and they should be the expert
on
> its application and want the customer to end up with the proper
> installation. I would look some where else with that attitude.
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
I've got a left handed infinity grip for my throttle, and the cyclic out of
an Apache for my stick. I THINK it's enough buttons.
At 10:45 PM 3/21/03 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
>
>On the other hand, I recently e-mailed some questions and got a response
>from JD the next day. I've got one of these grips and it is a good
>product. The switches are all wired up with a nice cable. It makes for a
>very clean installation. I went with the momentary switch on both up and
>down for simplicity and so that I wouldn't forget and leave it running.
>I don't think it would be that hard to solder in a new switch if I hate
>it that way. I haven't flown it so I'll have to wait and see if I made
>the right choice.
>
>If you don't use the momentary, and you don't like the idea of a limit
>switch, you could put an indicator light on the panel to remind you to
>turn it off when you're done with the go around.
>
>Ed Holyoke
>6qb
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim V. Wickert"
> > <JimW_btg@compuserve.com>
> >
> > Hi Julia,
> > snip
>
> > Major question I would have with anyone I am spending my hard earned
>cash
> > with to purchase their product and there are some options that could
>be
> > critical to the application and they had the attitude " indicate they
>are
> > busy and dont want to be pestered with questions", I would question
>even
> > purchasing from them. Its their product and they should be the expert
>on
> > its application and want the customer to end up with the proper
> > installation. I would look some where else with that attitude.
> >
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
> I've had just the opposite experience with Infinity. All the help I
> wanted
> and no hurry.
>
Concurrence with this mentioned response about Infinity.
Had e-mail and Voice communication with JD and some useful advice
regarding my requirements from my UK base.
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
mailto://gnholland@onetel.com
+44 7808 402404
Europa XS 384
G-FIZY
The greatest enjoyment from existence is living dangerously....
Friedrich Nietzsche
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