---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/23/03: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:53 AM - Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. (Jim Stone) 2. 05:47 AM - Re: Re: It mustn't continue.............. (Harold Kovac) 3. 05:52 AM - Re: It mustn't continue.............. (Harold Kovac) 4. 08:49 AM - Re: Re: exploding Jet-A (Dennis O'Connor) 5. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: runaway, self regulated alternators//FMEA (Paul Messinger) 6. 09:41 AM - Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Computer games joystick?! (Carlos Sa) 7. 10:04 AM - It mustn't continue (Fergus Kyle) 8. 10:10 AM - Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Computer games (richard@riley.net) 9. 10:14 AM - E-Buss Switch (Julia) 10. 10:18 AM - E-Buss - switched vs. non-switched items (Julia) 11. 10:25 AM - Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Computer games joystick?! (Gerry Holland) 12. 10:58 AM - Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Computer games joystick?! (Jim Jewell) 13. 11:55 AM - Re: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. (Jim V. Wickert) 14. 12:01 PM - Re: It mustn't continue (HCRV6@aol.com) 15. 12:03 PM - Re: Re: Microair radio (Rino) 16. 12:15 PM - Re: It mustn't continue (richard@riley.net) 17. 03:57 PM - Re: E-Buss Switch (Ed Holyoke) 18. 04:18 PM - GPS antenna location (Julia) 19. 04:26 PM - Re: It mustn't continue (rv6tc) 20. 04:38 PM - Re: E-Buss Switch (Kevin Horton) 21. 05:08 PM - Push to Talk Switch Wiring (Tom & Cathy Ervin) 22. 05:47 PM - pre-made wiring harnesses (Julia) 23. 06:41 PM - Re: It mustn't continue (Ageless Wings) 24. 07:17 PM - Re: pre-made wiring harnesses (Dan Checkoway) 25. 07:28 PM - Re: It mustn't continue (Harold Kovac) 26. 07:57 PM - Re: It mustn't continue (Tony Babb) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:34 AM PST US From: "Jim Stone" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" Great point Jim, Do you know of such a vender, that sells a great grip? Jim HRII Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim V. Wickert" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim V. Wickert" > > Hi Julia, > > For Flap control one question you must ask yourself with the type aircraft > are there only two flap positions needed one being in the take off and the > other being in the landing positions. If you do not need additional > positions for various loading conditions etc. then the simple switch and > two limit switch is all you will require. > > Major question I would have with anyone I am spending my hard earned cash > with to purchase their product and there are some options that could be > critical to the application and they had the attitude " indicate they are > busy and dont want to be pestered with questions", I would question even > purchasing from them. Its their product and they should be the expert on > its application and want the customer to end up with the proper > installation. I would look some where else with that attitude. > > Maybe we are spoiled from working with Steve Rahm at Vision Aricraft or Bob > at Aeroelectric,these guys are the best, but I know there are several other > companies in the EXP market that would be very happy to work with you in > order to get your business. Just think wha the responce will be if you > have a problem with the product quality of functionality????? > > Jim Wickert > Vision #159 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:14 AM PST US From: "Harold Kovac" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: It mustn't continue.............. --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Harold Kovac" But first you have to know what a contraction is ..... harold ----- Original Message ----- From: "nhulin" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: It mustn't continue.............. > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "nhulin" > > All that you Americans need now is a proper dictionary so that you can learn > to spell. > > Please, just kidding... ;-) > > ...neil > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Harold Kovac" > > > Amen, I've often wondered what has happened to our educational system. I see > non native users with better english skills than some of our native born > writers > > Do Not Archive > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:28 AM PST US From: "Harold Kovac" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It mustn't continue.............. --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Harold Kovac" In this context the US, rarely from some other nation where English is the principal language ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Slade" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: It mustn't continue.............. > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" > > > I see non native users with better english skills than some of our native > born > > writers > > And where, exactly, does a "native born" ENGLISH writer come from? > John Slade > English, and proud of it, but proud also to live in the 'other' land of the > free. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:58 AM PST US From: "Dennis O'Connor" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: exploding Jet-A --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor" It was supposedly dead empty - who knows... I had banned using a torch on drums 18 months before that... He also was supposed to fill it with water before cutting any metal... But if you know anything about millwrights they are long on getting a bigger hammer and short on listening... As far as fuel tanks in aircraft, they are vented or you wouldn't be able to remove the fuel... And, oxygen is one of the most pervasive gases in getting where you don't want it... Just try keeping oxygen out of any container and you will notice that fact... Add heat from the air conditioner pack against the floor of the tank, add an overheated fuel pump that is supposed to be immersed for cooling but isn't, add a spark from wiring running through the tank - fer gawds sake - and you get a boom... Denny ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Rourke" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: exploding Jet-A > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke > > But, did it have any liquid fuel in it? If not, the air-fuel mixture > could get to a stoichiometric level to support combustion. > > Plus, in using the air chisel you are introducing an opening through > which air can enter, which can certainly allow it to achieve the proper > air-fuel ratio for combustion (even if there was alittle liquid in the > bottom), AND providing the spark for ignition... baaaad idea! > > But, a sealed fuel tank does not provide the same scenario as far as I > can tell. > > -John > > > Dennis O'Connor wrote: > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor" > > > > Fine Bob... Not wanting to get into a hoohaa over it... > > In a previous lifetime I happened to hang around the plant engineering > > department of a small, multinational automobile corporation... One of our > > perenniel problems was the exploding 55 gallon, steel drum... One in > > particular I remember was a millwright that managed to blow up a kerosene > > drum (similar to Jet A) that he was chiseling the top off from, with an > > airpowered chisel... At that point I issued an absolute ban on reusing 55 > > gallon drums, which cost us some money but saved a lot more in the long > > run... > > > > Denny > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > To: > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: exploding Jet-A > > > > > > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > > > > > >>At 12:16 PM 3/20/2003 -0600, you wrote: > >> > >>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke > >>> > >>> > >>>I believe you are referring to a 737 in Manila in May 1990? > >>> > >>>Although explosive residue was not found, the possibility remains - I > >>>read a report where the passenger decking being pushed upwards was > >>>claimed to not be consistent with a fuel-tank explosion... but I haven't > >>>read much on it, just wanted to mention that the root cause of that one > >>>is still debated. > >>> > >>>No other fuel-tank explosions are known in 80 years of airline > >>>recordkeeping, according to the same reports. > >>> > >>>-John R. > >> > >>>Dennis O'Connor wrote: > >>> > >>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor" > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>And the center tank that exploded and burned on the ramp in Bahrain in > >>> > >>>front > >>> > >>>>of cameras and witnesses was bogus also? > >>>>(I think it was Bahrain - if not feel free to correct the location) > >>> > >> There has been an exhaustive study of public data on > >> the TWA800 incident. I've read quite a bit of it with > >> particular interest discussions illuminated with > >> logic and good physics. Like all such cases, there > >> are plenty of "fog generators" in the discussion > >> including conspiracy theorists and (not the least > >> of which) are agencies of government with competing > >> agendas. > >> > >> The tank in question had to have unusable and/or > >> unused liquid fuel in it. I am mystified as to how > >> the vapor-space in any closed volume with liquid in > >> the bottom, dilutes what would normally be a nearly > >> saturated mixture of fuel/air down to a > >> stoichiometric ratio required for combustion with > >> a high release of energy with any fuel, much less > >> Jet-A. This is but ONE of many questions which I > >> find puzzling. > >> > >> You're free to evaluate for yourself. There are > >> many reasons to be suspicious of the engineering > >> and investigative techniques . . . but be prepared > >> to spend some time looking through the details. > >> > >> check out www.twa800.com > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~neteagle/ > >> > >> Here's but one of many examples of logical, detailed and > >> independent analysis to be found with a bit of > >> websearching . . . > >> > >> http://www.compassionateweb.net/~missiletwa800/mann.htm > >> > >> and as a tip of the iceberg . . . > >> > >> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24075 > >> http://twa800.com/news/Stalcup.htm > >> http://www.flight800.org/sketch.htm > >> http://www.multipull.com/twacasefile/second649.html > >> http://twa800.com/images/exhibit22c_radar.pdf > >> > >> It's a complex puzzle but in the final analysis, only > >> the RIGHT pieces fit together into the real picture. > >> I've found the reasoning of a number of folks to > >> be compelling and in direct contradiction with > >> the officially published accounts. > >> > >> If you feel compelled to learn and/or enjoy putting > >> big puzzles together one could do worse than study > >> what's out there on TWA800. > >> > >> Bob . . . > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:36 AM PST US From: "Paul Messinger" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: runaway, self regulated alternators//FMEA --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" Bob, One last try as I do not seem to have a reply from you that addresses my failure mode (remember, its what I think you say, not what you think you are saying :-) ). The following discussion is generic in nature and does not address specific design details in a real alternator. Alternators have several different internal winding and diode designs and its not reasonable to address them all, nor is it reasonable to assume all will fail in the same way with the same external conditions. For the readers who do not want to get into the details read the final paragraph (s) of conclusions. First, I believe you are saying that disconnecting the "B" lead to a uncontrolled (failed internal regulator in the failed "FULL ON" mode) alternator will result in the alternator's output voltage (with no external load) will rise to around 100V and that will produce some 25 amps thru the 22 G field winding which will fuse open in several seconds and the result is no excess heat and a safe shutdown of the alternator. The "B" lead contactor will open unloading the alternator and prevent external OV. I agree that externally that will happen. Internally I do not agree however. You have a nice theory (that the internal voltage will go to 100V and stay for several seconds while the field winding fuses) but just how does the alternator voltage magically go to 100V and stay there while the field fuses open? What is the internal alternator design (and common to ALL alternator designs as you state the failure mode result is common to all) that limits the voltage to some value below the internal diode voltage failure rating that my failure mode suggests? Consider the following (mostly for the non technical members of the list). The alternator is a current source and is also a current amplifier. IE: IF 1 amp of field current will produce, for example, 15 amps of current to the "B" lead. Then 2 amps of field current will produce 30 amps of "B" lead current etc. The regulator simply looks at the "B" lead VOLTAGE and controls the field current as needed to keep the voltage at the set point of say 14V. If field current control is lost and the field current goes higher than the resulting external current load can handle the output voltage increases until the "B" lead current is externally loaded to the produced current. The alternator voltage will increase as much as needed to keep the field controlled "B" current flowing. If the field current max is 4 amps from the above example the alternator will increase the output voltage as needed until the load is sinking 60 amps. Thus I am saying the "B" lead voltage will rise (and extremely fast) to the point where the load current matches the generated current. If this is 60 amps and the load is suddenly disconnected the voltage rises in a very small fraction of one second to what is needed to load the "B" current. As there is no internal load to handle that 60 amp current, the voltage rises to the point of internal diode failure short(I believe this will be the primary or most common first failure). As the diodes are rated to handle the current there is no fast burning open of the shorted diodes (at least in the short term). Thus the voltage is now controlled by the shorted windings that can handle the current and that drops the generated voltage to an relatively low value and thus there is no 100V and 25 amps thru the field and no 10 seconds to burn out the field and keep the main current thru the shorted windings from producing internal heat. The internal alternator heats up and may burn the field open first or may get really hot as my real experience showed. What fails first at this point depends on the specific alternator design and what additional internal failures happen. Simply stated, a high uncontrolled field current produces a high "B" current that must be loaded to prevent the voltage from rising to what ever voltage is needed to provide the current load. Something will eventually fail. Perhaps it will be the field fusing open and perhaps it will be the diodes failing short or perhaps something else but the internal unloaded voltage will rise until something cuts the field current and or provides the needed load. My contention is the internal unloaded voltage will rise in a few milliseconds (not seconds) to the diode failure point. Then the shorted windings take the current load and produce internal heat. My contention is based on a real failure and the resulting failure analysis of three professional engineers who were employed in a major company's failure analysis engineering department. No specific conclusions could be made due to the extreme damage to the alternator (including charred Field and power windings as well as shorted diodes and partially melted aluminum case). I am ignoring the inductance and resistance etc of the "REAL" circuit as it is a second order effect to my point. For the interested (not really relevant to the discussion in my opinion) The failure was on a LYC powered experimental aircraft with a fuse on the "B" output and a bus OV that opened the 12V to the alternator control. At the time, the owner builder assumed the regulator could not fall such that the field current went on full (this is a widespread belief among auto service people). We were told the OV tripped (opening the 12V supply to the alternator) and the "B" fuse opened (opening the "B" lead). There is no timing or sequence of events available. The builder noted no alternator output from the above indicators and on inspection discovered the alternator smoked and the drive belt heat damaged. Nothing was damaged in the aircraft but then as far as the pilot remembered nothing was on including any avionics so the only external load was the battery. While you have suggested a Failure Modes and Effects (FMEA), I have never seen a proper FMEA on the subject from anyone outside large industry. A proper FMEA on an alternator's failure modes would be long and complex and likely to exceed 100 different failure modes, most of which assessed as very unlikely. Each alternator design would require some part of the FMEA to be unique to that alternator so no common to all FMEA is possible. CONCLUSIONS: I believe the only way to safely shut down an uncontrolled alternator is to stop the field current. As long as there is field current there will be uncontrolled "B" current and uncontrolled current going somewhere. I disagree the runaway voltage will always be controlled to a voltage that is below diode ratings and thus will allow time for the field to burn open from excessive current. One or more shorted diodes can result in greatly reduced internal voltage and thus reduced field current while providing an internal load that creats heat. Its reasonably easy to short out the field externally (bring out a brush lead) with an internally regulated alternator in addition to the "B" lead contactor for those who insist in using such an alternator. Given the many different alternator designs in production there is too many variables to count on the safe internal fusing of the field current. For an External regulated alternator, there is no connection from the "B" to the field and cutting the power to the field (regulator) is simple and does the job in all cases. For the internally regulated alternator its an entirely different case. Here load removal FORCES a second failure (field current removal) to occur before the alternator is 'safe'. This is where we disagree in that I do not agree the field will always fuse open soon enough to prevent overheating of the entire alternator. I am assuming the external load was disconnected at the time of the initial failure. The above referenced partial "expert " failure analysis demonstrated to me that at least in some cases simple load removal was not enough (and frankly none of my peers {experienced electronics engineers} can understand how the removal of the load will result in magically limiting the voltage to less than the internal diode max voltage rating. All felt the voltage would rise and start shorting diodes in well under 1/10 of a second and the resulting voltage would then be clamped at a relative low value which is determined by the specific alternator design and what diode(s) shorted). Considering how simple it is to use an alternator that is easy to convert or needs no conversion (to an external regulator) I feel there is no reason not to do it. As such alternators are available in similar weight,size, and amp ratings there need not be a weight penalty. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: runaway, self regulated alternators > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 08:52 AM 3/21/2003 -0800, you wrote: > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:44 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Infinity Stick Grip - Computer games joystick?! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Hello, all Why not use one of those cool joysticks used for computer games? A whole bunch of switches on them, pre-wired and all, available at the nearest computer store. They are probably very sturdy, to withstand the many hours of game-playing in the hands of teenagers... Did anyone consider one of those? Carlos --- Ed Holyoke wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ed Holyoke > > On the other hand, I recently e-mailed some questions and got a response > from JD the next day. I've got one of these grips and it is a good > product. The switches are all wired up with a nice cable. It makes for a > very clean installation. I went with the momentary switch on both up and > down for simplicity and so that I wouldn't forget and leave it running. > I don't think it would be that hard to solder in a new switch if I hate > it that way. I haven't flown it so I'll have to wait and see if I made > the right choice. > > If you don't use the momentary, and you don't like the idea of a limit > switch, you could put an indicator light on the panel to remind you to > turn it off when you're done with the go around. > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:35 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: AeroElectric-List: It mustn't continue --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" AND THE WINNER IS: For best response to a post. RSwanson (most constructive) Runners-up: Jim Jewell, James Freeman - (least offensive retort) Harry Crosby, LarryRobertHelming - (best spellers) Passing Grade: Keith - 67%, for 'your' & 'you're', but not 'yore' Helming - 67%, for 'their' & 'there', but not 'they're'. It was in 1507 that Martin Waldseemuller (or his collaborator, Matthias Ringman) in their book, "Cosmographiae introductio" suggested that Columbus' new continent be named after Americus Vesputius [Latin book], since both Europa and Asia were named for women. However by 1527, Franciscus Monarchus produced the first known map of the new continents and "America" appears in northern Brazil. Therefore, it must be that the cousins from Britain are actually in conflict with the grammar of Portugal, and not as we note here, those of south-central North America. Next semester will be 'dampening vs. damping'. Ferg PS: apologies to Matt Dralle for Off Topic ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:10:52 AM PST US From: richard@riley.net Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Infinity Stick Grip - Computer games joystick?! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net The best ones, if you go that route, are the Thrustmaster B8 style. In fact, JD's early sticks were injected urethane foam surplus Thrustmasters (I know, I bought a dozen of them). The Thrustmaster "Top Gun" stick is slightly smaller - the same size at JD's - the "Fighter X" is a full size B8. Neither one is made anymore, but you can get them on EBay for about $20. The later Top Guns and all the Fighter Xs have soft neoprene inserts where the checkering is, which is also where your hand contacts the stick. The coolie hat switch they use is the same one JD uses, but the pushbuttons are really too light for aircraft use. It's best to drill them out and replace them. At 12:40 PM 3/23/03 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > >Hello, all > >Why not use one of those cool joysticks used for computer games? A whole >bunch of >switches on them, pre-wired and all, available at the nearest computer store. > >They are probably very sturdy, to withstand the many hours of game-playing >in the >hands of teenagers... > >Did anyone consider one of those? > >Carlos > > > --- Ed Holyoke wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List > message posted >by: Ed Holyoke > > > > On the other hand, I recently e-mailed some questions and got a response > > from JD the next day. I've got one of these grips and it is a good > > product. The switches are all wired up with a nice cable. It makes for a > > very clean installation. I went with the momentary switch on both up and > > down for simplicity and so that I wouldn't forget and leave it running. > > I don't think it would be that hard to solder in a new switch if I hate > > it that way. I haven't flown it so I'll have to wait and see if I made > > the right choice. > > > > If you don't use the momentary, and you don't like the idea of a limit > > switch, you could put an indicator light on the panel to remind you to > > turn it off when you're done with the go around. > > > >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:14:22 AM PST US From: Julia Subject: AeroElectric-List: E-Buss Switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia with bob's wiring diagram for the main buss and e-buss & internal regular Z-xx previously labeled. there is a master switch with Off/Bat/Alt. - positions. there is then an E-Buss switch under normal proceedures you would get in the airplane, turn the master to Alternator - then start up. The E-Buss gets powered from a diode off the main buss - so would you normally leave the E-Buss switch off - untill you had a situation where you had an alternator failure - then you would flip the master switch to Bat. power and turn on the E-Buss. Is that correct? Also, does the OVM module CAUSE the Alternator field to shut off - or does it just allow some of the voltage to go to ground in order to keep the voltage from spiking? Is it the case that you still need to turn the master to Bat or OFF - to get the alternator contactor to shut off? thanks --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:02 AM PST US From: Julia Subject: AeroElectric-List: E-Buss - switched vs. non-switched items --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia I read somewhere that all items run off the E-Buss should have a switch on them - I notice the diagrams call for a turn coordinator to run off the e-buss - there is no switcfh on that. also I have an electric attitude indicator -so I assume that would run off the e-buss as well? are both of these items ok if they don't have an on/off switch on them? if these are ok -how about other low powered items - like instrument lights? thanks --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Infinity Stick Grip - Computer games joystick?! From: Gerry Holland --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland Carlos Hi! Someone here in UK has done this very well. Just had to adapt from about 3/4" to 1"+ to fit Joystick. The Aircraft is a very well equipped Europa owned by a X777 Pilot for BA. Regards Gerry Gerry Holland mailto://gnholland@onetel.com +44 7808 402404 Europa XS 384 G-FIZY The greatest enjoyment from existence is living dangerously.... Friedrich Nietzsche ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:29 AM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Infinity Stick Grip - Computer games joystick?! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Hi Carlos, CH products Manufactures game controls etc. go to http://www.chproducts.com/retail/hi_res_images.html They have a new product for homebuilt aircraft builders that looks to be just what you describe. They are sending information in the mail on request Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Infinity Stick Grip - Computer games joystick?! > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > Hello, all > > Why not use one of those cool joysticks used for computer games? A whole bunch of > switches on them, pre-wired and all, available at the nearest computer store. > > They are probably very sturdy, to withstand the many hours of game-playing in the > hands of teenagers... > > Did anyone consider one of those? > > Carlos > > > --- Ed Holyoke wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted > by: Ed Holyoke > > > > On the other hand, I recently e-mailed some questions and got a response > > from JD the next day. I've got one of these grips and it is a good > > product. The switches are all wired up with a nice cable. It makes for a > > very clean installation. I went with the momentary switch on both up and > > down for simplicity and so that I wouldn't forget and leave it running. > > I don't think it would be that hard to solder in a new switch if I hate > > it that way. I haven't flown it so I'll have to wait and see if I made > > the right choice. > > > > If you don't use the momentary, and you don't like the idea of a limit > > switch, you could put an indicator light on the panel to remind you to > > turn it off when you're done with the go around. > > > > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:24 AM PST US From: "Jim V. Wickert" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Infinity Stick Grip - Flap Switch. --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim V. Wickert" Hi Julia, Yes I do. CH Products. They supply both commercial joy sticks for Industrial applications this is where I came accross them and they provide top qulity control sticks for the game industry. They now have a control stick for the Home built aircraft market, with picturers of an installation in both a Lancair and RV. The stick I am going to use is one found in thier retail Gameport section not the USB section of products. They have two sticks that I am now looking into. The Game Stick 3D Right or Left hand with 4 single press buttons and a 4 way hat switch they have them on special now for $39.95 remove the base and the rest is ready to use. This the unit they have installed in the Home built pictures They also have the CH Flight stick that has a few less buttons and again right or left hand also $39.95. I have seen these units and they are good quality. CH Products 970 Park Center Dr. Vista, CA 92083 760-598-2518 www.chproducts.com Go to Retail section Good luck, happy building Jim Wickert Vision #159 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:08 PM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It mustn't continue --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com In a message dated 3/23/03 10:05:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, VE3LVO@rac.ca writes: << Next semester will be 'dampening vs. damping'. >> And then will we take up "aluminium vs aluminum?" Do Not Archive Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, firewall forward ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:19 PM PST US From: Rino Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Microair radio --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rino Thanks Lonnie, I got in touch with www.xcom760.com Lonnie Benson wrote: > Rino, > > Just incase you never received an answer to your question, try > www.xcom760.com. or www.becker-avionics.com. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:02 PM PST US From: richard@riley.net Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It mustn't continue --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net At 02:59 PM 3/23/03 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com > >In a message dated 3/23/03 10:05:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, VE3LVO@rac.ca >writes: > ><< Next semester will be 'dampening vs. damping'. >> > >And then will we take up "aluminium vs aluminum?" And then flammable vs inflammable? Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:46 PM PST US From: Ed Holyoke Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: E-Buss Switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ed Holyoke Julia, In case of alternator failure, you would turn the e-bus on and then turn the master off to save the amp or so that the contactor draws. Depending on how much fuel you've got left, you might even want to turn off some of the stuff on the e-bus to make sure you've got enough battery left for arrival. If the alternator overvolts, the OVM causes the field breaker to blow shutting down the alternator. You should then have a blinking light to warn you of low voltage and follow procedure above. I think that's how it works anyway. Ed Holyoke > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner- > aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Julia > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 10:13 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: E-Buss Switch > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia > > > with bob's wiring diagram for the main buss and e-buss & internal regular > Z-xx previously labeled. > > there is a master switch with Off/Bat/Alt. - positions. > > there is then an E-Buss switch > > under normal proceedures you would get in the airplane, turn the master to > Alternator - then start up. The E-Buss gets powered from a diode off the > main buss - so would you normally leave the E-Buss switch off - untill you > had a situation where you had an alternator failure - then you would flip > the master switch to Bat. power and turn on the E-Buss. Is that correct? > > Also, does the OVM module CAUSE the Alternator field to shut off - or does > it just allow some of the voltage to go to ground in order to keep the > voltage from spiking? Is it the case that you still need to turn the > master to Bat or OFF - to get the alternator contactor to shut off? > > thanks > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:18:50 PM PST US From: Julia Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna location --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia is it ok to mount the GPS antenna in a wing tip? I was going to mount it under the engine cowl - but the wing tip is relatively empty when compared with under the engine cowl. Also if I had to find another reason, perhhaps it might be argued that if you flew upside down - the reception would be just as good with the wing tip location - whereas it you mounted it under the engine cowl and flew upside down, you'd have the engine blocking the GPS signal? What arguements are there for NOT mounting it in the wing tip? Do strobe signals interfere with GPS at all? I"m using a wing tip COMM antenna in one tip and thought I'd put the GPS in the other tip. My transponder antenna is underneath the seats and my ELT antenna is in the tail - I think that's all the antennas I need. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:12 PM PST US From: "rv6tc" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It mustn't continue --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rv6tc" By the way...... while we are waaaaaaayyyy off topic...... Is it "nuclear" or "nucular"? These talking heads on TV are driving me nuts. Keith Hughes Denver Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It mustn't continue > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com > > In a message dated 3/23/03 10:05:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, VE3LVO@rac.ca > writes: > > << Next semester will be 'dampening vs. damping'. >> > > And then will we take up "aluminium vs aluminum?" > > Do Not Archive > > Harry Crosby > Pleasanton, California > RV-6, firewall forward > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:53 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: E-Buss Switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia > > >with bob's wiring diagram for the main buss and e-buss & internal >regular Z-xx previously labeled. > >there is a master switch with Off/Bat/Alt. - positions. > >there is then an E-Buss switch > >under normal proceedures you would get in the airplane, turn the >master to Alternator - then start up. The E-Buss gets powered from >a diode off the main buss - so would you normally leave the E-Buss >switch off - untill you had a situation where you had an alternator >failure - then you would flip the master switch to Bat. power and >turn on the E-Buss. Is that correct? 1. I would do a test of the E-Buss switch prior to any flight where this function was important - i.e. an night or IFR flight, assuming your engine is not electrically dependent. If your engine is electrically dependent I would recommend doing a test of the E-Buss switch prior to every flight. The test would basically be: prior to selecting the master switch to ON, select the E-Buss switch to ON and confirm that there is power to the E-Bus. Then select the master switch to ON, and the E-Buss switch to OFF. Once you are close to the airport where you will land, you could power everything else back up if desired by selecting the master to Bat. power. 2. If you had an alternator failure, you would select the E-Buss switch to ON, then select the master switch to OFF. Now your battery is only powering the E-Buss loads, to maximize the electrical endurance. If you left the master to the Bat power position as you suggest the battery is powering everything, and it will run down quicker. This is OK if you are close to the airport where you will land, but you might run the battery to exhaustion otherwise. >Also, does the OVM module CAUSE the Alternator field to shut off - >or does it just allow some of the voltage to go to ground in order >to keep the voltage from spiking? Is it the case that you still >need to turn the master to Bat or OFF - to get the alternator >contactor to shut off? If you have an externally regulated alternator, the OVM shorts out the line to alternator field, causing the field CB to pop. This kills the alternator. If you have an internally regulated alternator, the OVM has to be wired to open a relay in the alternator output, as there is no access to the field power. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:24 PM PST US From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Push to Talk Switch Wiring --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" List, I have my Audio Panel PS-4000 wiring harness in place but they didn't make up separate wires for the Push to Talk Buttons? One wire I know is the ground but wouldn't the other wire go to the "Key Wire" on the Microphone jack that the headset plugs into? Thanks for any help as the wiring is just about done. Tom in Ohio ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:29 PM PST US From: Julia Subject: AeroElectric-List: pre-made wiring harnesses --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia in case anyone is not interested in doing alot of wiring - check out www.approach-systems.com - they made my harness to go from Transponder to altitude encoder and one from intercom system to COMM radio and wow did that save alot of time. I'm impressed. I never have liked working with those small computer pins. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:46 PM PST US From: "Ageless Wings" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: It mustn't continue --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ageless Wings" Keith... >>By the way...... while we are waaaaaaayyyy off topic...... Is it "nuclear" or "nucular"? << Atomic.... Harley ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:36 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: pre-made wiring harnesses --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" You might also want to check into Stark Avionics. John Stark quoted me the absolute lowest prices on all of my avionics (UPSAT stuff), and his prices for wiring harnesses are incredibly inexpensive. Why bother with a "black box" if you don't need to... http://www.mindspring.com/~jts7/index.htm )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (canopy) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julia" Subject: AeroElectric-List: pre-made wiring harnesses > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia > > > in case anyone is not interested in doing alot of wiring - check out www.approach-systems.com - they made my harness to go from Transponder to altitude encoder and one from intercom system to COMM radio and wow did that save alot of time. I'm impressed. I never have liked working with those small computer pins. > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:31 PM PST US From: "Harold Kovac" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It mustn't continue --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Harold Kovac" While we're at it, how many of you have been told to taxi to the "tarmac" (ramp) by ATC. as to nukular, half the (or more) of US congress and the news media can't pronounce the word harold ----- Original Message ----- From: "rv6tc" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It mustn't continue > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rv6tc" > > By the way...... while we are waaaaaaayyyy off topic...... > > Is it "nuclear" or "nucular"? These talking heads on TV are driving me > nuts. > > Keith Hughes > Denver > > Do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It mustn't continue > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com > > > > In a message dated 3/23/03 10:05:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, > VE3LVO@rac.ca > > writes: > > > > << Next semester will be 'dampening vs. damping'. >> > > > > And then will we take up "aluminium vs aluminum?" > > > > Do Not Archive > > > > Harry Crosby > > Pleasanton, California > > RV-6, firewall forward > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:37 PM PST US From: "Tony Babb" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It mustn't continue --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tony Babb" not to mention the correct pronunciation of nuclear > ><< Next semester will be 'dampening vs. damping'. >> > > > >And then will we take up "aluminium vs aluminum?" > > And then flammable vs inflammable? > Do Not Archive