Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:23 AM - Re: starter considerations with EFIS/one and FADEC (Stucklen, Frederic IFC)
2. 06:23 AM - Re: Is this a "good" battery for the price? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:57 AM - Noise Filter Questions (William Yamokoski)
4. 07:12 AM - alternator (KahnSG@aol.com)
5. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: starter considerations with EFIS/one and FADEC (Wendell & Jean Durr)
6. 07:47 AM - Re: Noise Filter Questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 07:51 AM - Re: Hot Little Torch (Denis Walsh)
8. 08:35 AM - Re: alternator (Paul Messinger)
9. 09:23 AM - Fw: Wiring Diagram Questions (Rick Fogerson)
10. 10:37 AM - Re: Noise Filter Questions (William Yamokoski)
11. 11:28 AM - Off Topic - cowl fasteners (Julia)
12. 01:26 PM - Hinge pin/Radio interference (Scott Bilinski)
13. 01:38 PM - Re: Noise Filter Questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 01:40 PM - Re: Hot Little Torch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 03:00 PM - Re: Fw: Wiring Diagram Questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 03:06 PM - Re: Hinge pin/Radio interference (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 03:12 PM - Re: OV warning pin on LR3B-14 (Howard Ogle)
18. 03:53 PM - Re: alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 07:51 PM - Re: ... and burnt alternators (Mike Lehman)
20. 08:00 PM - Re: Stereo Wirin' (Mike Lehman)
21. 08:51 PM - Re: Re: OV warning pin on LR3B-14 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
22. 11:39 PM - Re: OV warning pin on LR3B-14 (Howard Ogle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: starter considerations with EFIS/one and FADEC |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com>
Tim,
This is essentially what I have done with the power to the dual
electronic ignition system that I've installed on my new RV-6A. I have a
dual battery electrical system. The Aux battery contactor is always open
during engine start, thereby assuring that that electronic ignitions always
get 12 V, and do not see any voltage spike on the main battery.
Once started, the Aux battery will switch onto the bus if it's contact
control switch is in the "Auto" position (it also has an "OFF" and an "ON"
position...). Also, once the engine is started, oil pressure switches
connect each ignition system (via a diode) to both batteries. So even if
both battery contactors are turned "OFF", the engine continues to run......
I'll be glad to share this circuit with the list if anybody is
interested.......
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV Reserved
From: TimRhod@aol.com
Bob and others:
Ive been thinking of solutions to some of the things=A0 we have been
discussing
concerning voltage drop when starting FADEC engines. Also concern
over
voltage spikes=A0 or low voltage problems with the EFIS/ONE=A0
during starting.=A0
Here is what I came up with.=A0 Using Z-14 DBDA=A0 Put all avionics
one one=20bus.
from main=20bus
through diode and avionics master switch. Second from Alternate bus
through
diode and avionics secondary master switch. Master switches are
included in
case EFIS systems need isolated as Greg Ricktor seems to think they
should
be. Third and fourth essential feeds from main batt buss and
alternate batt
buss on one switch that would choose one or the other.=A0 Cross feed
contactor
will not have starter switch included. Starter switch will be
seperate. Here
is how I envision it working.=A0 During start up sequence the
avionics bus can
be feed through the alternative electrical system. So the Efis/One
is powered
up from that source. Also the FADEC ignition is powered from the
Alternate
battery. The main battery is used to start the engine The cross feed
is kept
open at this point so the two electrical systems never affect each
other. If
you needed both batteries to start you would not turn on avionics
bus until
engine started. You wouldnt have you oil pressure immediatly but
this
shouldnt be a common occurance to need both batteries for starting.
It seem
to me that this allows the Efis/One and the FADEC ing. to be at 12.5
volts
continually during engine start-up.=A0 What do you think?
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Is this a "good" battery for the price? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:48 PM 3/25/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tom..." <tsled@pacbell.net>
>
>Hiya Mr. Bob,
>
>I found these battries what do you think of the last one, the surplus
>"HAWKER G13EP" they actually weigh 10.8 Lbs. at:
>
>http://surplusev.com/
>
>I got two including shipping to me for $60.oo total ! What do ya think for
>the price.
It's a very good price for this product. I would run
capacity tests to make sure they're okay (there is some
but a very small risk that 'surplus' inventory is also
abused inventory). With this technology, odds are in your
favor that they're an excellent buy.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Noise Filter Questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk@lmc.cc.mi.us>
Hi Folks,
I've admitted defeat in my hunt for radio noise, and am putting
together one of Bob's noise filters. I'm using the Microair radio and
Flightcom 430 intercom. I'm making an assumption that a good choice
for the source of the noise is the essential bus to which both devices
are independantly connected. I intend to place the filter between the
bus and the devices, yellow wire connected to the bus as per Bob's
diagrams. If the bus is the source of the noise, it will no doubt be
effecting both the radio and the intercom. Can I feed both of these
devices from one filter (which would result in both devices being
connected to one fuse)or do I need a separate filter for each device?
Is there anything to worry about re: physical location of the filter?
Thanks for any ideas on this. Oh...one other question...if this filter
doesn't help, can I get a volunteer to take me out back and shoot me?
Thanks again.
Bill Yamokoski, Glastar N4970Y have about 70 hours
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KahnSG@aol.com
The only problem we have with burning is the Mitsubishi alt. used on Ford
Tempo, Taurus and Thunderbird.
The other CS series GM and most other Ford alternators are all american made.
The ND alternator is very dependable and generally lasts 100,000 to 150,000
miles.
Steve
Springfield Auto Parts Co., Inc.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RE: starter considerations with EFIS/one and FADEC |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wendell & Jean Durr" <legacy147@cableone.net>
I for one would be interested in Mr. Stucklen's ideas.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Noise Filter Questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:55 AM 3/26/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Yamokoski"
><yamokosk@lmc.cc.mi.us>
>
>Hi Folks,
> I've admitted defeat in my hunt for radio noise, and am putting
>together one of Bob's noise filters. I'm using the Microair radio and
>Flightcom 430 intercom. I'm making an assumption that a good choice
>for the source of the noise is the essential bus to which both devices
>are independantly connected. I intend to place the filter between the
>bus and the devices, yellow wire connected to the bus as per Bob's
>diagrams. If the bus is the source of the noise, it will no doubt be
>effecting both the radio and the intercom. Can I feed both of these
>devices from one filter (which would result in both devices being
>connected to one fuse)or do I need a separate filter for each device?
>Is there anything to worry about re: physical location of the filter?
>Thanks for any ideas on this. Oh...one other question...if this filter
>doesn't help, can I get a volunteer to take me out back and shoot me?
>Thanks again.
>Bill Yamokoski, Glastar N4970Y have about 70 hours
Have you determined that the noise is indeed coming into
your affected systems via the 14v bus? What kind of
noise are you hearing and what tests have you conducted
to determine how it's getting into your radio?
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Hot Little Torch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@attbi.com>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia <wings97302@yahoo.com>
>
>
> I was in Radio Shack today and picked up one of their Mini Butane-Powered
> Soldering Irons - #64-2188 - for $19.99. WOW what a neat tool! I highly
> recommend getting one of these. I have no patience for waiting for a
> soldering iron to warm up - I was using a full sized plumbers torch. That
> worked fine for all but small items like the potentiometer on the light dimmer
> (no longer a potentiometer) - but this torch is really slick. It comes with
a
> blow torch tip (which I plan to use) and then a soldering tip. The flame is
> very small and has pin point accuracy - i'm impressed - go get one!
>
>
>
>
Ditto. I bought one after almost being stranded 1500 NM from home with some
wires needing solder. Just the thing for the traveling tool kit.
Denis
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@tenforward.com>
Interesting, as my local junk yard research is the (not good) bin is full of
ND alternators where the sliprings are worn out from external dirt. But then
I was only looking for small frame alternator to consider. Perhaps its a
local issue with dirt??
Paul
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KahnSG@aol.com
>
>
> The only problem we have with burning is the Mitsubishi alt. used on Ford
> Tempo, Taurus and Thunderbird.
> The other CS series GM and most other Ford alternators are all american
made.
> The ND alternator is very dependable and generally lasts 100,000 to
150,000
> miles.
>
> Steve
> Springfield Auto Parts Co., Inc.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Fw: Wiring Diagram Questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Fogerson
Subject: Fw: Wiring Diagram Questions
Hi Bob,
I sent this while you were gone so I'll try again.
Rick Fogerson
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Fogerson
Subject: Wiring Diagram Questions
Hi Bob,
I'm finalizing my wiring diagram and getting ready to order starter, alternator,
voltage reg, etc. from B&C.
I noticed on Fig Z-11 that a 5A CB is wired between the Bat/Alt Mstr Sw and the
Alternator Field terminal. As far as I can tell it is not on any other diagram.
Is the CB necessary in my situation and/or under what conditions?
I remember on the RV-6 wiring diagram you made for me back in 1996, I had two or
three big yellow in-line fuse holders on the firewall among the contactor wires.
Sorry, I don't remember exactly what wires, just a bunch of yellow holders
in that area. I was just curious why I don't see any in lines on the present
diagrams?
Last question: B&C sells two push to start sw's. An S895-1 with bare terminals
and according to B&C a 501-200-1 with soldiered wires, veristor across the terminals,
and potted in back. I'm not familiar with the latter and wanted your
opinion of it.
Thanks, Rick Fogerson
RV3 finish kit
Boise, ID
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Noise Filter Questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk@lmc.cc.mi.us>
Hi Bob,
Thanks for the reply. I was sort of thinking that the filter might
function as a very cheap diagnostic device if nothing else. If I
insert in between the bus and the radio, and things improve, great. If
they don't improve, I've learned something.
With the engine off I hear something every time I throw a switch,
from a low hum when turning on the gps to a very nice musical chirping
when the strobes are turned on. With the engine running, I'm getting a
rapid stocatto noise that varies in frequency with engine rpm. When I
depress the PTT switch I hear the stocatto noise very loudly. People
listening to my transmissions report hearing the same. If nav lights
and strobes are off, the stocatto isn't always present, and is less loud
when present. I hear others' transmission perfectly fine.
I'm using a Subaru engine, which has a computer controlling it.
I'm not sure if that can be part of this situation or not.
So...can I run two devices off one filter :)
Thanks again
Bill Yamokoski
Message 11
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| Subject: | Off Topic - cowl fasteners |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia <wings97302@yahoo.com>
Hello
Im working to install my engine cowl and I got the Skybolt.com cowl installation
kit (on sale now 30% off - and no I don't work for them). I cannot emphasize
enough how much I would recommend this kit. I was not looking forward to the
cowl at all with this kit it sounds easy.
I cut the heck out of my engine baffles to allow my top cowl to fit nicely. I
took off my exhaust system. Im going to get the top and bottom cowl to fit together
nicely first This I can do on a workbench.
Next I will fit the bottom onto the firewall and then the top it sure sounds easy
with these fasteners. They certainly are not cheap but I am convinced the
finished product will be significantly better.
Piano hinge is for pianos.
---------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | Hinge pin/Radio interference |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
I have heard of situations where a rattling hinge pin can cause radio
interference. Is this possible?
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Noise Filter Questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:34 PM 3/26/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Yamokoski"
><yamokosk@lmc.cc.mi.us>
>
>Hi Bob,
> Thanks for the reply. I was sort of thinking that the filter might
>function as a very cheap diagnostic device if nothing else. If I
>insert in between the bus and the radio, and things improve, great. If
>they don't improve, I've learned something.
Get a couple of 6v lantern batteries (Wallmart will sell you
a battery AND a flashlight for less $ than a battery alone)
to hook in series for 12v. Run first one, then other then
both devices from battery and see what effect it has on
your observed interference. IF the noise goes away, you
may well be advised to add the filter . . . but I'm skeptical.
> With the engine off I hear something every time I throw a switch,
>from a low hum when turning on the gps to a very nice musical chirping
>when the strobes are turned on. With the engine running, I'm getting a
>rapid stocatto noise that varies in frequency with engine rpm. When I
>depress the PTT switch I hear the stocatto noise very loudly. People
>listening to my transmissions report hearing the same. If nav lights
>and strobes are off, the stocatto isn't always present, and is less loud
>when present. I hear others' transmission perfectly fine.
It's very unusual for one to have such a combination and variety
of antagonists. I'm suspecting something in system assembly and/or
architecture. Let's do the battery test first.
> I'm using a Subaru engine, which has a computer controlling it.
>I'm not sure if that can be part of this situation or not.
Could be a contributor . . . fuel injectors and fuel pumps
have some degree of noise generating ability but the fact that
you hear all these other things suggests a more basic problem.
The vast majority of airplanes turn out noise free from
the get-go if all the rudimentary rules are followed. Let's
do some detective work before you break out hammers-n-saws . . .
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Hot Little Torch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:50 AM 3/26/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@attbi.com>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia <wings97302@yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> > I was in Radio Shack today and picked up one of their Mini Butane-Powered
> > Soldering Irons - #64-2188 - for $19.99. WOW what a neat tool! I highly
> > recommend getting one of these. I have no patience for waiting for a
> > soldering iron to warm up - I was using a full sized plumbers torch. That
> > worked fine for all but small items like the potentiometer on the light
> dimmer
> > (no longer a potentiometer) - but this torch is really slick. It comes
> with a
> > blow torch tip (which I plan to use) and then a soldering tip. The
> flame is
> > very small and has pin point accuracy - i'm impressed - go get one!
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>Ditto. I bought one after almost being stranded 1500 NM from home with some
>wires needing solder. Just the thing for the traveling tool kit.
got one in the toolbox at my desk at RAC . . . lets
you do things a long way from ac power mains . . .
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Wiring Diagram Questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>Hi Bob,
>I sent this while you were gone so I'll try again.
>Rick Fogerson
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Rick Fogerson
>To: aeroelectric-list
>Subject: Wiring Diagram Questions
>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I'm finalizing my wiring diagram and getting ready to order starter,
>alternator, voltage reg, etc. from B&C.
>
>I noticed on Fig Z-11 that a 5A CB is wired between the Bat/Alt Mstr Sw
>and the Alternator Field terminal. As far as I can tell it is not on any
>other diagram. Is the CB necessary in my situation and/or under what
>conditions?
A circuit breaker is shown for all alternator field/control
circuits utilizing crowbar ov protection . . . the crowbar
module's proper operation depends on the use of this breaker.
It appears on all diagrams.
A fuse could be used but since there are system situations
that can nuisance trip the crowbar ov protection, this is
the one circuit protective device that I recommend be in
reach of the pilot. It shows on all of our suggested switch
layouts at
http://216.55.140.222/articles/switchpanel/swpanel.pdf
>I remember on the RV-6 wiring diagram you made for me back in 1996, I had
>two or three big yellow in-line fuse holders on the firewall among the
>contactor wires. Sorry, I don't remember exactly what wires, just a bunch
>of yellow holders in that area. I was just curious why I don't see any in
>lines on the present diagrams?
Those fuse holders were determined to be too fragile
for use in airplanes. I ended up taking most of them
back when the customer had problems with 'em. If you
NEED a single, in-line fuse consider:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/ckrtprot/ckrtprot.html#ifh-2
>Last question: B&C sells two push to start sw's. An S895-1 with bare
>terminals and according to B&C a 501-200-1 with soldiered wires, veristor
>across the terminals, and potted in back. I'm not familiar with the
>latter and wanted your opinion of it.
Use the first one. It comes with no MOV installed. The
MOV's turned out to be a bad idea . . . at least not as
good as using a diode across the contactor. The part number
with MOV installed is part of an STC'd kit that Bill sells.
It should probably be modified but it's so much hassle . . .
well, we've all heard that story before.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Hinge pin/Radio interference |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:24 PM 3/26/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>I have heard of situations where a rattling hinge pin can cause radio
>interference. Is this possible?
>
>
>Scott Bilinski
>Eng dept 305
>Phone (858) 657-2536
>Pager (858) 502-5190
ANY relatively loose joint carrying a current can and will
generate some degree of radio noise. Hinges, loose mounting
brackets, etc. will do it.
Now comes the issue of why does a hinge carry current? In
some cases, p-static current is enough to be a detectable
problem. I recall reading about a rudder hinge that only caused
radio noise at night! Seems that white nav light bulb grounded
through hinge which was right next to VOR antenna cat-whiskers
on vertical fin cap.
A few years ago, a popular myth circulated around the OBAM
grapevine about putting bonding straps across all surface hinges
on every airplane, including composites. Except for the obvious
rudder nav light situation, I doubt the usefulness of this
. . . but it sure doesn't hurt anything either. Keeps
pink elephants away too . . .
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: OV warning pin on LR3B-14 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Howard Ogle <pub@macrotechcorp.com>
Bob,
In a previous post you wrote:
> It's sorta open collector . . . one of the requirements I had for
> configuring the output stage was that the warning lamp should
illuminate
> IF power were entirely removed from the regulator. To get the output
> transistor to turn on using only continuity between the bus and a
> warning lamp, I put a resistor from collector to base to create a
> level of artificial leakage . . . no problem with .08A lamps but
> it will cause problems with LEDs . . . you need to add a pull up
> resistor that mimics the current draw of an incandescent lamp.
> Try adding 200 ohm, 1 watt resistor between terminals 5 (lamp)
> and 3 (lv sense). This should pull up firmly on pin 5 when the
> lamp should be off and swamp out the effects of the "leakage"
> resistor inside.
I understand what you said. However, I would like a little
clarification.
Like some others, I am using a low current indicator (LED like).
Additionally, I would like to be able to test (monitor) my indicator(s)
circuit. In order to test my indicator circuits, I plan to use an active
low "push-to-test" switch that pulls the various indicator circuits low
(0.7V) using diodes to isolate the individual circuits. So, the question
comes up; Should I just simply view pin 5 of the LR3B as an NPN
transistor with a base to collector resistor? Is there any high side
leakage on pin 5?
As such, should I assume, during a LV condition with the 200 ohm
resistor installed as described above, that pin 5 will not pull all the
way to ground if the voltage on pin 3 (OV_SENSE) goes to zero or very
low? I've left out exact voltages. Because, I'd expect the value(s) to
be dependent upon the transistor's gain and value of the internal
collector to base resistor. I don't see any problem with the way LR3
works. It's excellent. I'm just trying to understand and anticipate what
I need to make my stuff work properly.
Is there any problem with my external indicator and monitoring circuit
pulling pin 5 low (open collector low)? Will LR3 continue to "regulate"
during such a condition? If things are the way I've tried to describe
(clarify), I would think this to be O.K.
BTW, I may be glad I found this post. Originally, I was going to feed
pin 3 (OV_SENSE) through a 10K resistor. However, it sounds like this
would be bad. A 10K resistor obviously won't work with the 200 ohm fix
described above. Also, is pin 3 more than just a high impedance voltage
sense? If so, how much current draw should I expect on this pin, even if
it is only milliamps?
The earlier thread was based upon the LR3B-14. Is the same true for the
LR3C-14?
Message 18
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:33 AM 3/26/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger"
><paulm@tenforward.com>
>
>Interesting, as my local junk yard research is the (not good) bin is full of
>ND alternators where the sliprings are worn out from external dirt. But then
>I was only looking for small frame alternator to consider. Perhaps its a
>local issue with dirt??
>
>Paul
This is how I would expect this alternator to fail most often.
In spite of small diameter slip rings (very low surface velocity
under the brushes) I belive the slip rings are the most
vulnerable feature of the design. It's an dry-running,
sliding-parts-interface relatively open to operating atmosphere.
If the rotors are balanced very carefully to favor bearing
life at typical running speeds on a Lycoming, then the
demonstrated service life of this alternator as a B&C product
is understandable.
Return rate on this alternator for reasons other than user
induced damage is virtually non-existent. There must be a couple
thousand in service since they were introduced at B&C about
12 years ago.
(Dave in Wichita, do you ever recall seeing a return for
wear-out or failure? I haven't talked with Bill about this
issue for several years now . . . the answer was always
the same. I'll ask him what the current record is next
time I talk to him.)
I think the B&C/ND service record stands head and shoulders above
the service record of ANY brand alternator on ANY airplane . . .
Bob . . .
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: ... and burnt alternators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Lehman" <LehmansMtl@netzero.com>
"We also see many burned alternators from cars.
Mostly the the diode assy. and reg. in CS130 and CS144 series Delco. (late
1980's and up GM)
The B lead connector burns up on the Ford int. reg. alternators quite often,
including enough fire to melt other wiring that is close to the alt.
Steve
Springfield Auto Parts Co., Inc."
The CS130 diode block life is so poor in auto service that I carry a spare alternator
in the trunk. I now seem to be getting better life with the Transpo DR4000
diode block and a cooling air blast tube (from front of rad). To the lister
who wrote that he must use this alternator on his aircraft, note that even
though rated at 105 amps, the CS130 gets very hot at only 40 amps output. And,
I've seen re-built CS130 alternators sold with a printed warning to never use
this alternator with a low battery ...
Mike
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Stereo Wirin' |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Lehman" <LehmansMtl@netzero.com>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
> I usually put a toggle switch next to the jack to flip
> between stereo and monaural operation.
That's what I was looking for- the obvious solution! (duh- now publicly obvious
why the big
bux elude me!!!)
Thank you sir...
Mark Phillips - do not archive -
The instructions for a stereo intercom I use advises to simply leave mono headphone
plugs one click out from fully inserted. The only 'down side', I've noticed
is selection of OFF or 'radio' on the intercom (or intercom failure) then
requires the mono headphone plug to be fully inserted.
Mike
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: OV warning pin on LR3B-14 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:08 PM 3/26/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Howard Ogle <pub@macrotechcorp.com>
>
>Bob,
>
>In a previous post you wrote:
> > It's sorta open collector . . . one of the requirements I had for
> > configuring the output stage was that the warning lamp should
>illuminate
> > IF power were entirely removed from the regulator. To get the output
> > transistor to turn on using only continuity between the bus and a
> > warning lamp, I put a resistor from collector to base to create a
> > level of artificial leakage . . . no problem with .08A lamps but
> > it will cause problems with LEDs . . . you need to add a pull up
> > resistor that mimics the current draw of an incandescent lamp.
> > Try adding 200 ohm, 1 watt resistor between terminals 5 (lamp)
> > and 3 (lv sense). This should pull up firmly on pin 5 when the
> > lamp should be off and swamp out the effects of the "leakage"
> > resistor inside.
>
>I understand what you said. However, I would like a little
>clarification.
>
<snip>
>BTW, I may be glad I found this post. Originally, I was going to feed
>pin 3 (OV_SENSE) through a 10K resistor. However, it sounds like this
>would be bad. A 10K resistor obviously won't work with the 200 ohm fix
>described above. Also, is pin 3 more than just a high impedance voltage
>sense? If so, how much current draw should I expect on this pin, even if
>it is only milliamps?
>
>The earlier thread was based upon the LR3B-14. Is the same true for the
>LR3C-14?
Yes, the lamp driver is the same throughout the product's
evolution. But why are you hooking this lamp to a PTT circuit?
LEDs never go bad and the light gets tested every preflight
when you turn on the battery master. Testing the light as you've
proposed only tests the light which is always going to be good
. . . turning the alternator off will drop the bus voltage
which should get you a warning light in a few seconds . . .
this tests the entire LV warning system.
Bob . . .
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: OV warning pin on LR3B-14 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Howard Ogle <pub@macrotechcorp.com>
>At 03:08 PM 3/26/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Howard Ogle
<pub@macrotechcorp.com>
>>
>>Bob,
>>
>>In a previous post you wrote:
>> > It's sorta open collector . . . one of the requirements I had for
>> > configuring the output stage was that the warning lamp should
>>illuminate
>> > IF power were entirely removed from the regulator. To get the
output
>> > transistor to turn on using only continuity between the bus and a
>> > warning lamp, I put a resistor from collector to base to create a
>> > level of artificial leakage . . . no problem with .08A lamps but
>> > it will cause problems with LEDs . . . you need to add a pull up
>> > resistor that mimics the current draw of an incandescent lamp.
>> > Try adding 200 ohm, 1 watt resistor between terminals 5 (lamp)
>> > and 3 (lv sense). This should pull up firmly on pin 5 when the
>> > lamp should be off and swamp out the effects of the "leakage"
>> > resistor inside.
>>
>>I understand what you said. However, I would like a little
>>clarification.
>>
>
> <snip>
>
>
>>BTW, I may be glad I found this post. Originally, I was going to feed
>>pin 3 (OV_SENSE) through a 10K resistor. However, it sounds like this
>>would be bad. A 10K resistor obviously won't work with the 200 ohm fix
>>described above. Also, is pin 3 more than just a high impedance
voltage
>>sense? If so, how much current draw should I expect on this pin, even
if
>>it is only milliamps?
>>
>>The earlier thread was based upon the LR3B-14. Is the same true for
the
>>LR3C-14?
>
> Yes, the lamp driver is the same throughout the product's
> evolution. But why are you hooking this lamp to a PTT circuit?
> LEDs never go bad and the light gets tested every preflight
> when you turn on the battery master. Testing the light as you've
> proposed only tests the light which is always going to be good
> . . . turning the alternator off will drop the bus voltage
> which should get you a warning light in a few seconds . . .
> this tests the entire LV warning system.
>
> Bob . . .
Yes, I'm aware that LEDs don't burn out and that such a circuit would
only be testing the LV LED. (I'm an EE.) However, I do have my reasons
for wanting to do this:
1) My annunciators is a cluster of Honeywell AML45 series indicators. In
addition to main and aux bus LV warning, there are other items including
gear status, motor status, crossfeed, etc. At least two of the circuits
have relay circuits that get tested when the PTT is activated. Plus, a
portion of the gear wiring gets tested, as well. I could just have the
PTT light up only the LEDs that have "testable" circuits. But, from a
user (pilot) standpoint, I feel it is better to have a PTT simply light
up all indicators. Thus, the pilot does not have to stop and think...
"Hum, engine is off.. therefore only this one, that one and that one
should be on." Or, "Hum, engine is on... therefore this one, that one
and not that one, etc.". I'm just trying to keep the operational chores
simple. In other words, no thinking is required. Unless, one of the
indicators does NOT light up.
2) My annunciators are also on a high side dimmer circuit that auto
adjusts for ambient light. At the same time, you can adjust it manually,
as well. Although, I'm tweaking the limit of dimming so they are still
somewhat visible in daylight. In any case, I would like to have the PTT
for allowing the pilot to verify the dimmer setting.
The additional wiring and a few diodes is negligible. I don't see where
practical reliability is compromised. A failure of any of the PTT
circuits does not present any real hazard to the flight. Most of us are
already accustomed to PTT. So, why not have the user interface light all
indicators, not just the few that are really being tested beyond the
LEDs. Plus, it's a reminder and method to check the warning light dimmer
setting.
Not necessarily related to the "test" circuit discussed above, but, What
is the expected current draw on pin 3 (OV_Sense)?
Howard
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