Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:34 AM - Re: Re: Stereo Wirin' (Mark Phillips)
2. 06:19 AM - Re: OV warning pin on LR3B-14 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:05 AM - Re: alternator (Paul Messinger)
4. 07:13 AM - Re: alternator (David Swartzendruber)
5. 08:48 AM - Re: alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 08:53 AM - Re: alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 09:07 AM - Re: lighting dimmers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 10:18 AM - Re: Hinge pin/Radio interference (Stucklen, Frederic IFC)
9. 10:20 AM - Re: OV warning pin on LR3B-14 (Howard Ogle)
10. 10:31 AM - alt. failures (KahnSG@aol.com)
11. 11:16 AM - OVM Circuit Questions (Phil Birkelbach)
12. 12:17 PM - Re: Re: lighting dimmers (Julia)
13. 01:18 PM - Ray Allen stick grip wiring questions (Gilles.Thesee)
14. 02:28 PM - Re: OVM Circuit Questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 02:29 PM - Re: Re: OV warning pin on LR3B-14 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 02:34 PM - Re: Hinge pin/Radio interference (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 08:40 PM - Building an E-Buss, Main Buss, fuse block assembly - my idea (Julia)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Stereo Wirin' |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Bob wrote:
> > I usually put a toggle switch next to the jack to flip
> > between stereo and monaural operation.
Mike wrote:
> The instructions for a stereo intercom I use advises to simply leave mono headphone
plugs one click out from fully inserted. The only 'down side', I've noticed
is selection of OFF or 'radio' on the intercom (or intercom failure) then
requires the mono headphone plug to be fully inserted.
Another workable solution- thanks! After drawing up the circuit for using a switch
as Bob suggests, it appears that not taking care to put the switch in the
"stereo" position still allows one channel to short if a mono plug is fully inserted.
What I have chosen to do is install both the
"transfer circuit" mono jack and a stereo jack, with one of those little spring-loaded
covers on the stereo jack labeled with an "S" as a "heads up" to prevent
mono insertion. About the same cost/labor/parts count as the switch, but with
the possible benefits of being less likely to insert
the wrong plug, a bit simpler, and having a flush surface (no protruding toggle,
although a slider or rocker switch could be used) Now if I could just decide
where to drill these six little holes!
Thanks again from The PossumWorks in TN - the A-list rocks!
Mark Phillips
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: OV warning pin on LR3B-14 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
<snip>
>Not necessarily related to the "test" circuit discussed above, but, What
>is the expected current draw on pin 3 (OV_Sense)?
>
>Howard
As I recall, the drive is capable of pulling down
on a lamp rated at 100 mA or better.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@tenforward.com>
Thank you for your reply.
Years ago I spent a lot of time looking for "My Ideal alternator". With an
auto engine conversion a reliable electrical system is critical.
My question on the ND sliprings was that other small alternators NOT from
ND had little or no slipring wear and most had much larger diameter rings.
It seems to me the major issue with alternators is application and physical
location in autos plus the associated internal regulator that causes one
brand and/or another to fail more than another.
I understand the B&C ND alternators however have the regulator removed and
along with better balance is the reason they are so reliable.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: alternator
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 08:33 AM 3/26/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger"
> ><paulm@tenforward.com>
> >
> >Interesting, as my local junk yard research is the (not good) bin is full
of
> >ND alternators where the sliprings are worn out from external dirt. But
then
> >I was only looking for small frame alternator to consider. Perhaps its a
> >local issue with dirt??
> >
> >Paul
>
> This is how I would expect this alternator to fail most often.
> In spite of small diameter slip rings (very low surface velocity
> under the brushes) I belive the slip rings are the most
> vulnerable feature of the design. It's an dry-running,
> sliding-parts-interface relatively open to operating atmosphere.
>
> If the rotors are balanced very carefully to favor bearing
> life at typical running speeds on a Lycoming, then the
> demonstrated service life of this alternator as a B&C product
> is understandable.
>
> Return rate on this alternator for reasons other than user
> induced damage is virtually non-existent. There must be a couple
> thousand in service since they were introduced at B&C about
> 12 years ago.
>
> (Dave in Wichita, do you ever recall seeing a return for
> wear-out or failure? I haven't talked with Bill about this
> issue for several years now . . . the answer was always
> the same. I'll ask him what the current record is next
> time I talk to him.)
>
> I think the B&C/ND service record stands head and shoulders above
> the service record of ANY brand alternator on ANY airplane . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
> > (Dave in Wichita, do you ever recall seeing a return for
> > wear-out or failure? I haven't talked with Bill about this
> > issue for several years now . . . the answer was always
> > the same. I'll ask him what the current record is next
> > time I talk to him.)
> >
> > I think the B&C/ND service record stands head and shoulders above
> > the service record of ANY brand alternator on ANY airplane . . .
> >
> > Bob . . .
My recollection is that the numbers returned were very small. What the
reasons were for the failures in all cases excapes my memory. It seems
like we had one that we blamed on the regular high pressure washing by
the owner.
Dave in Wichita
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:12 AM 3/27/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber"
><dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
>
>
> > > (Dave in Wichita, do you ever recall seeing a return for
> > > wear-out or failure? I haven't talked with Bill about this
> > > issue for several years now . . . the answer was always
> > > the same. I'll ask him what the current record is next
> > > time I talk to him.)
> > >
> > > I think the B&C/ND service record stands head and shoulders above
> > > the service record of ANY brand alternator on ANY airplane . . .
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
>
>My recollection is that the numbers returned were very small. What the
>reasons were for the failures in all cases excapes my memory. It seems
>like we had one that we blamed on the regular high pressure washing by
>the owner.
Yeah, I remember that one. I think he was the Canadian atmospheric
research pilot flying a Long-Ez . . . not only did he like to keep
things REALLY clean, he managed to mis-understand how the LR-3
works with the alternator and hosed it too. Wanted me to send him
a schematic so he could 're-design it to eliminate obvious
flaws' . . .
I recall some coming back with b-lead terminals burned off due
to inadequate security of the nut on the stud. One other I saw
had some stator wiring damage from some external accident . . .
But you're right, returns were rare and never involved wear-out
or gross failure.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:48 AM 3/27/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger"
><paulm@tenforward.com>
>
>Thank you for your reply.
>
>Years ago I spent a lot of time looking for "My Ideal alternator". With an
>auto engine conversion a reliable electrical system is critical.
>
> My question on the ND sliprings was that other small alternators NOT from
>ND had little or no slipring wear and most had much larger diameter rings.
>
>It seems to me the major issue with alternators is application and physical
>location in autos plus the associated internal regulator that causes one
>brand and/or another to fail more than another.
>
>I understand the B&C ND alternators however have the regulator removed and
>along with better balance is the reason they are so reliable.
Yes, B&C starts with brand new, factory fresh alternators.
They open them up and remove the built in regulator. There's
also a machining operation to accommodate a mechanical
hurdle with making a solid modification to the brush wiring.
Rotors are balanced and the whole thing is put back together
with Loctite on the threaded fasteners.
Service life has mostly to do with balance, re-assembly
with attention to detail and robustness of ND's product.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: lighting dimmers |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:09 PM 3/25/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I am wiring my Rans with a Rotax 912 using your diagram on pg. Z-15 in the
>aeroelectric connection. I have 8 internally lit automotive style engine
>gauges, a stereo AM/FM CD player, a KY97 comm. and a KT76 xponder, all with
>internal lights. I want to put an overhead flood for the flight instruments
>and switches, etc. On page 11-17 you talk about using a 1-3 switch to share
>a dimmer unit with two applications. Could I use the B&C dimmer assy. and
>have one circuit on all of the aforementioned internal lights and a second
>on an overhead flood?
If it were my airplane, I think I'd put the panel lighting
on a B&C dimmer and put the flood lighting on a single
lamp dimmer like
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/SDK-1.jpg and power
it from the e-bus. What kind of flood lighting are
you considering. LED or incandescent? How much
current will it draw?
You COULD do as you've suggested but I like the idea
of totally independent systems powered from separate
busses.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Hinge pin/Radio interference |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com>
Bob,
What about bonding straps for IFR aircraft that have static
wicks? Aren't these installed to protect against fusing the hinges in the
case of a lightning strike? With the RV hinge style Heim joint hinge
concept, there's not much electrical surface area between the control
surface and the fuselage.
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV Reserved
ANY relatively loose joint carrying a current can and will
generate some degree of radio noise. Hinges, loose mounting
brackets, etc. will do it.
Now comes the issue of why does a hinge carry current? In
some cases, p-static current is enough to be a detectable
problem. I recall reading about a rudder hinge that only caused
radio noise at night! Seems that white nav light bulb grounded
through hinge which was right next to VOR antenna cat-whiskers
on vertical fin cap.
A few years ago, a popular myth circulated around the OBAM
grapevine about putting bonding straps across all surface hinges
on every airplane, including composites. Except for the obvious
rudder nav light situation, I doubt the usefulness of this
. . . but it sure doesn't hurt anything either. Keeps
pink elephants away too . . .
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: OV warning pin on LR3B-14 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Howard Ogle <pub@macrotechcorp.com>
<snip>
> >Not necessarily related to the "test" circuit discussed above, but,
What
>>is the expected current draw on pin 3 (OV_Sense)?
>>
>>Howard
>
>As I recall, the drive is capable of pulling down
>on a lamp rated at 100 mA or better.
>
>Bob . . .
I think you mis-understood the question. This was the 2nd point
(question) of the original post. This one is NOT about pin 5 (LAMP). I
was asking about pin 3 (the pin also known as "OV_SENSE")? This is the
so called SENSE pin. If you don't know the precise value, is the current
draw on this pin in the order of microamps, milliamps, or amps? Or, what
is the impedance of this input? In other words, disregarding the
previously discussed 200 ohm resistor for a moment, is a very low
current (<0.1ma) voltage reference adequate for this SENSE pin?
Howard
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KahnSG@aol.com
Mike:
You are right. The CS130 alt. are supplied in 85 to 105 amps. It's a small
unit for so many amps. The rear bearings are sealed ball bearings that fail
often from heat compared to the needle bearings used in the old SI series GM
alt. It is recommended not to charge a low battery with the alt., because it
causes it to put out max amps for an extended period of time. It therefore
overheats the diodes and they fail. The alt. are designed to put back in what
you used during starting and to run the vehicle and the accessories. The
later GM vehicles use a ducted hose to the rear of the alt. to try to solve
some of the overheating. They tend to fail in 40,000 to 60,000 miles. As far
as the wear on the ND alt., the slip rings may be worn on some, but they
still charge and seem to last two to three times longer than most but not all
of the GM's.
Steve
Springfield Auto Parts Co., Inc.
Message 11
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| Subject: | OVM Circuit Questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
Bob,
I intend to 'Roll my Own' Crowbar OVM. I have a question about the 500 ohm
pot. Would it be possible to set this pot and then remove it from the
circuit, measure the resistance and replace it with two resistors. I
thought this might keep the circuit from drifting over time, due to
vibration, heat cycles etc. I just don't know if there is something else
that would cause this circuit to drift and necessitate re-calibration from
time to time.
P.S. I still intend to test the circuit at every condition inspection
regardless.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage
http://www.myrv7.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: lighting dimmers |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia <wings97302@yahoo.com>
my floodlight plan is to use a flashlight - I do have the dimmer you mention -
but why not run it off the e-bus as well. does it draw that much running the
lights down low? I wouldn't think so.
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net> wrote:--> AeroElectric-List message
posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
At 06:09 PM 3/25/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I am wiring my Rans with a Rotax 912 using your diagram on pg. Z-15 in the
>aeroelectric connection. I have 8 internally lit automotive style engine
>gauges, a stereo AM/FM CD player, a KY97 comm. and a KT76 xponder, all with
>internal lights. I want to put an overhead flood for the flight instruments
>and switches, etc. On page 11-17 you talk about using a 1-3 switch to share
>a dimmer unit with two applications. Could I use the B&C dimmer assy. and
>have one circuit on all of the aforementioned internal lights and a second
>on an overhead flood?
If it were my airplane, I think I'd put the panel lighting
on a B&C dimmer and put the flood lighting on a single
lamp dimmer like
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/SDK-1.jpg and power
it from the e-bus. What kind of flood lighting are
you considering. LED or incandescent? How much
current will it draw?
You COULD do as you've suggested but I like the idea
of totally independent systems powered from separate
busses.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------
Message 13
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| Subject: | Ray Allen stick grip wiring questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Hi all,
Maybe those questions have already been addressed, so please pardon me.
Question 1 :
In Bob's schematics, the PTT wire is invariably twisted with the
corresponding ground wire. In the four button Ray Allen stick grip
instructions they show a common ground wire for the PTT wire and the four
trim wires.
That's one ground for five wires. What should I do ? Twist PTT wire and
ground wire all the same ? But then what about the separate routing of the
ground wire to the firewall ground bus ?
Question 2 :
Ray Allen provides 20 ft of 26 AWG wire for the six wires from the grip.
Our kit manufacturer uses one multi-conductor shielded wire, the shield
playing a role as one of the wires.
What would be the best solution ?
Thanks,
Gilles
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: OVM Circuit Questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:15 PM 3/27/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach"
><phil@petrasoft.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>I intend to 'Roll my Own' Crowbar OVM. I have a question about the 500 ohm
>pot. Would it be possible to set this pot and then remove it from the
>circuit, measure the resistance and replace it with two resistors. I
>thought this might keep the circuit from drifting over time, due to
>vibration, heat cycles etc. I just don't know if there is something else
>that would cause this circuit to drift and necessitate re-calibration from
>time to time.
>
>P.S. I still intend to test the circuit at every condition inspection
>regardless.
I've never had a problem with pots changing setting
over time. If consider using multi-turn, screwdriver-
adjust pot. These are VERY stable with time and
environment.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: OV warning pin on LR3B-14 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:18 AM 3/27/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Howard Ogle <pub@macrotechcorp.com>
>
><snip>
>
> > >Not necessarily related to the "test" circuit discussed above, but,
>What
> >>is the expected current draw on pin 3 (OV_Sense)?
> >>
> >>Howard
> >
> >As I recall, the drive is capable of pulling down
> >on a lamp rated at 100 mA or better.
> >
> >Bob . . .
>
>I think you mis-understood the question. This was the 2nd point
>(question) of the original post. This one is NOT about pin 5 (LAMP). I
>was asking about pin 3 (the pin also known as "OV_SENSE")? This is the
>so called SENSE pin. If you don't know the precise value, is the current
>draw on this pin in the order of microamps, milliamps, or amps? Or, what
>is the impedance of this input? In other words, disregarding the
>previously discussed 200 ohm resistor for a moment, is a very low
>current (<0.1ma) voltage reference adequate for this SENSE pin?
Oh, sorry. It's on the order of tens of milliamps but less
than 100 as I recall. This pin powers regulator and ov sense
electronics. It needs a separate, low impedance connection to
the bus.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Hinge pin/Radio interference |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:17 PM 3/27/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC"
><Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com>
>
>
> Bob,
>
> What about bonding straps for IFR aircraft that have static
>wicks? Aren't these installed to protect against fusing the hinges in the
>case of a lightning strike? With the RV hinge style Heim joint hinge
>concept, there's not much electrical surface area between the control
>surface and the fuselage.
Static wicks are useful only to dissipate p-static
from the airplane with many, low-current bleed points
each one too quiet to contribute to atmospheric noise
in radios. They have no protective role to play in
dealing with a lightning strike. Bond straps across
hinges would mitigate the welding issue . . .
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | Building an E-Buss, Main Buss, fuse block assembly |
- my idea
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia <wings97302@yahoo.com>
Todays Good Idea:
I"ve been stewing on how to make my e-buss and main buss and came up with a neat
idea.
If you are familiar with B&Cs ground blocks, the 24 fast-on tab ones well they
have a small hole on one end which would fit right onto the stud on the 10 slot
fuse block sold by B&C. The other end contains a large bolt.
My plan is to mount the 10-slot fuse block vertically with the ground block on
top again the small hole in the bottom of the ground block would go onto the
#8 stud off the top of the 10-slot fuse block. The two rectangular pieces would
each be mounted vertically tied together with the fuseblock stud.
Now make two of these units and let one be the main buss and one be the e-buss.
Mount them side by side on quarter inch white plastic board and just bolt the
board to another board (you might use 1/8 inch white board here - this just
insulates the through bolts which bolt the fast-on tab blocks to the white board
from the fuselage) - then bolt it all to the next panel behind the instrument
panel. Let the white board hang down below the bottom of this panel so the
fuse blocks are a bit easier to get to.
One of the vans guys once said he wished he had put a ground block behind the panel.
With my plan I will have plenty of fast-on tabs available for any main buss
needs, e-buss needs, fused needs, or ground needs all with easy access just
behind the panel.
Time to hit the sack hopefully I havent lost you here but it sure sounded like
a great idea to me.
---------------------------------
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