Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:35 AM - angle of attack indicator (Gary Casey)
2. 08:57 AM - Re: LED post lights for instrument lighting? (Tom Brusehaver)
3. 09:20 AM - Re: Fw: RV-List: Electrical System Gremlin (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 09:27 AM - Re: LED post lights for instrument lighting? ()
5. 09:38 AM - SLIM-LINE 55-WATT LIGHTS ()
6. 09:40 AM - Re: LED post lights for instrument lighting? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 10:03 AM - ATC BLADE FUSES THAT GLOW WHEN BLOWN ()
8. 10:10 AM - Re: strobe wiring (BobsV35B@aol.com)
9. 10:56 AM - Re: angle of attack indicator (Jerzy Krasinski)
10. 11:24 AM - Re: ATC BLADE FUSES THAT GLOW WHEN BLOWN ()
11. 02:02 PM - Re: angle of attack indicator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 02:09 PM - Hall Effect Ammeters (Charles Brame)
13. 02:33 PM - Bolder Technologies still operating? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 02:42 PM - Could someone crimp a few D-Subs for me? (Sam Hoskins)
15. 02:43 PM - Z-14 Interface with FADEC (John Schroeder)
16. 04:07 PM - Re: Bolder Technologies still operating? (Sam Hoskins)
17. 04:19 PM - Re: Bolder Technologies still operating? ()
18. 04:23 PM - Re: Bolder Technologies still operating? ()
19. 04:33 PM - Re: Bolder Technologies still operating? ()
20. 04:34 PM - JCWhitney heaters ()
21. 05:18 PM - Re: Bolder Technologies still operating? ()
22. 05:44 PM - Re: Bolder Technologies still operating? ()
23. 05:46 PM - Re: Could someone crimp a few D-Subs for me? (TimRhod@aol.com)
24. 07:54 PM - Re: JCWhitney heaters (Jim Stone)
25. 08:20 PM - Re: JCWhitney heaters ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | angle of attack indicator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
<<Replace the pressure gauge with a pressure/voltage transducer, connect
the output to a bargraph driver and display it using a bar of LEDs with
different colors, and it is ALL electric. Doing it this way you do not
have to mess with alignment of the mechanical gauge "...until it
shows..." whatever. Just mount it roughly at 45 degrees to the flow and
that's it, since you can make voltage correction electronically.>>
That would work, I suppose, but what you will have is more like an airspeed
indicator than a true angle-of-attack indicator. The commercially available
AOA indicators DIVIDE the wing top-side pressure by the bottom-side
pressure. Reading the DIFFERENCE by probes that are sensitive to
orientation pretty much describes an airspeed indicator - and you already
have one of those. The link describes the result as a "Lift Reserve
Indicator" which sounds like an appropriate label.
Gary Casey
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: LED post lights for instrument lighting? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tom Brusehaver <cozytom@mn.rr.com>
I just went and took some pictures now.
Try these:
http://home.mn.rr.com/brusehaver/avionics/led-assembly.jpg
http://home.mn.rr.com/brusehaver/avionics/led-closeup.jpg
http://home.mn.rr.com/brusehaver/avionics/led-parts.jpg
Cy Galley wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> do you have any pictures?
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
>
> Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: RV-List: Electrical System Gremlin |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:43 PM 4/4/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin"
><tcervin@valkyrie.net>
>
>List, Worked all day (It's Friday) and nothing was wired wrong or were
>there any loose grounds!! My A/P just came down with his handy dandy high
>tech equipment and determined either my Van's Amp. Gauge or the Shunt is
>Junk!
>am drawing about a 4 amp. discharge which he says is about right.
> Does anyone know a test that will show if it's the Gauge or
>Shunt? If I replace the Amp. Gauge with another 2 1/4" Steam Gauge what have
>you had luck with??
I'm not sure from your post why he thinks it's bad.
If it's a Van's instrument, I presume you have it wired
in as a classic battery ammeter (-0+). Is this a new
instrument? Did you purchase the shunt and instrument
at the same time as a set?
There are some other posts suggesting ways to "test"
the shunt which are valid things to do IF you know how
the shunt is calibrated. The quasi-standard for shunted
ammeters in the instrumentation world is to make your
panel instrument read full scale on either 50 or 100 millivolts
of applied voltage. The vast majority of systems I've worked
with are of the 50mV full scale variety. I've seen some
100 mV systems advertised and described in a service manual
or two . . . by and large, 50mV systems predominate.
Now, when you go to Smiley Jacks's auto-cum-aeromotive
parts store, you may find matched sets of instrument and
shunt that operating on some scale factor OTHER than
50mV full scale. I've encountered 35 mV and a few odd
factors I don't recall any more. Without this basic
knowledge as to how your particular combination works,
you don't have data needed to trouble shoot the components
independently of each other.
So, I'll suggest you use a mulitmeter's 20A scale
and hook it in series with the battery (+) lead.
With the OUTPUT side of the battery contactor
disconnected, turn on the battery master switch
and get a reading of battery contactor current.
Hook the output side again and turn on enough
stuff in the airplane to get a 10-15A load on
your test instrument. Subtract the battery contactor
value and see how closely it matches with the
panel instrument. If it's within 10%, the panel
instrument is probably okay . . . or at least
good enough.
The IMPORTANT calibration point for a battery ammeter
is at ZERO . . . a properly operating system
will indicate some small value just above zero
after you've been flying for awhile and you know
the battery is fully charged. ALL other readings
are useful to the extent that you know the alternator
is NOT working or that the battery never seems to
get fully charged 'cause the needle rides too far
right of zero for too long. All other readings,
whether accurate or not, are not terribly useful.
The only car I had with a factory installed battery
ammeter didn't even have numbers on the scale . . .
just a minus, zero mark and plus. After owning the
car for a time, I learned it was important to note
that the needle rode slightly above zero with
everything turned off . . . and mentally adjust
for that slip of calibration while interpreting
significance of the instrument's display.
I wish Van didn't sell those things . . . when
someone of his stature in aviation offers them,
it's easy to assign more usefulness to the instrument
than is really there.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: LED post lights for instrument lighting? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
JC Whitney lists a 12v LED Map Light for $14.99 that plugs into a cigarette
lighter and has a flexible arm. Can't get it to come up on the net but it
is in their paper cataloge numbered 672J-03 on the lower left bottom of page
10. Comes in red, Purple, Neon blue, green, turquoise, pink,white, yellow or
orange. Theri number is 800 529-4486
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Brusehaver" <cozytom@mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LED post lights for instrument lighting?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tom Brusehaver
<cozytom@mn.rr.com>
>
>
> I just went and took some pictures now.
>
> Try these:
>
> http://home.mn.rr.com/brusehaver/avionics/led-assembly.jpg
> http://home.mn.rr.com/brusehaver/avionics/led-closeup.jpg
> http://home.mn.rr.com/brusehaver/avionics/led-parts.jpg
>
>
> Cy Galley wrote:
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> >
> > do you have any pictures?
> > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
> >
> > Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> > cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
> >
> > Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
>
> >
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | SLIM-LINE 55-WATT LIGHTS |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
These lights mght be similar to the ones Bob mentioned:
http://www.jcwhitney.com/SearchCatContainer.jhtml?_requestid=19101
OR A BIT LARGER
http://www.jcwhitney.com/SearchCatContainer.jhtml?_requestid=19158
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Landing/taxi light warm up
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 12:18 PM 4/3/2003 +0200, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Herminghaus
> ><catignano@everyday.com>
> >
> >Looks very interesting. Where can it be purchased.
>
> Car parts store . . . #4352 It was only used
> on a few years of GM vehicles . . . low volume
> product so expect to pay about $20 per bulb. But
> they are the right size, shape and technology. Should
> last a VERY long time in your airplane.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: LED post lights for instrument lighting? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:19 AM 4/5/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tom Brusehaver <cozytom@mn.rr.com>
>
>
>I just went and took some pictures now.
>
>Try these:
>
> http://home.mn.rr.com/brusehaver/avionics/led-assembly.jpg
> http://home.mn.rr.com/brusehaver/avionics/led-closeup.jpg
> http://home.mn.rr.com/brusehaver/avionics/led-parts.jpg
These pictures illustrate one builder's approach to living
with the narrow and end-centered beam-width of leds. Another
approach I've considered is similar to the technique used
to scatter and broaden the beam-width of a camera mounted
flash. I have brackets to hold approx 10" x 8" white card
at 45 degree angle above a flashgun pointed at the ceiling.
Light is reflected off this card as a softer, broader light
source that softens shadows behind the subject.
An LED pointed parallel to the face of an instrument
shining on a reflective tab might do well to turn light
around the corner and scatter it to more broadly light
the instrument. I'm not personally attracted to the post-light
technique. If I were going to front light instruments, I think
an overhead or side mounted flood is a more efficient way
to use the light without having lamp-post-fungi growing
off the surface of the panel.
Someone else posted a note about work they'd done with
light wedges made from plastic. These have a natural
light scattering effect . . . the design also lends itself
to the use of multiple lamps from the same or adjacent
edges to improve coverage. Better yet, your panel stays
smooth. The instruments do recess back to allow for light
wedge thickness . . . this needs to be considered in
the overall visibility of the instrument face.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | ATC BLADE FUSES THAT GLOW WHEN BLOWN |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
http://www.jcwhitney.com/SearchCatContainer.jhtml?_requestid21150
ANYBODY KNOW HOW THESE WORK AND IF THEY WOULD BE JUST AS RELIABLE AS REGULAR ATC'S.
I AM BUIDING A BATTERY BUS IN THE TAIL CONE OF MY RV6A AND THOUGHT THESE
WOULD MAKE IT EASY TO SEE WHICH FUSE BLEW WITHOUT CRAWLING BACK INTO THE TAILCONE.
THANKS,
NED
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: strobe wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 4/3/2003 4:21:55 PM Central Standard Time,
kycshann@kyol.net writes:
> Hrm. That sucks as I already ran it at 22-3. After writing the email,
> I called Whelen to get some specs on the HDACF power supply I'm using.
> Turns out its 21J, and it flashes on some deal they call Cometflash.
> Cometflash pulses the tube 4 times in rapid succession so the effective
> on-time is increases from 2ms to 400ms, which they say increases
> visibility. Also, I learned that the output voltage is 500-600 volts.
>
Good Morning Shannon,
For What It's Worth. I have strobes on my tip tanks and the tubing that was
installed to carry the wiring out to the strobes and running lights was too
small for anything larger than number 22 wire.
I contacted Whelen and was advised that # 22 should work OK. Don't remember
if they said I would lose anything or not.
Mine is twenty-four volt system.
It has been working adequately for twelve years and over two thousand hours.
Not all at night though!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: angle of attack indicator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski@direcway.com>
The lift reserve indicator as described by Jim Mantyla provides
different input than the airspeed indicator. The air speed indicator
uses a probe to be as little sensitive to the direction of flow as
possible. The air speed indicator measures pressure difference between
that probe and the static port. The pressure difference is the dynamic
pressure which is equal to the density of air multiplied by velocity
squared and divided by two. The air speed indicator measures the
dynamic pressure, and it does not care what is the attack angle. You
might have greater than minimum velocity, but you will stall if you jerk
the controlls.
In the other design the probe has two sensing openings, one on top and
one on the bottom, and you measure the pressure difference between these
two, and not between the probe and the static port. That produces a
pressure difference signal proportional to the attack angle (measured in
respect to some reference angle, depending how you mount the probe)
multiplied by the dynamic pressure, and this product is rougly the lift
reserve. If you jerk the controlls the measured pressure difference
will change a lot because of change of the attack angle.
Formally this instrument does not measure the attack angle, it measures
the attack angle multiplied by something. But air speed indicator does
not measure the air speed either, it measures the air speed multiplied
by the air density, which as we well know is not constant and it changes
with altitude. But few people would go flying without airspeed indicator.
In my opinion the lift reserve indicator is a valid and very useful
instrument telling you when are you going to stall. However, a
mechanical pressure gauge connected to the probe does not offer enough
warning when the lift reserve vanishes, it just shows some low
pressure. Electronics would activate a strong red diode in the
bargraph, and perhaps activate a screamer providing a hard not to
notice warning.
Jerzy
Gary Casey wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
>
><<Replace the pressure gauge with a pressure/voltage transducer, connect
>the output to a bargraph driver and display it using a bar of LEDs with
>different colors, and it is ALL electric. Doing it this way you do not
>have to mess with alignment of the mechanical gauge "...until it
>shows..." whatever. Just mount it roughly at 45 degrees to the flow and
>that's it, since you can make voltage correction electronically.>>
>
>That would work, I suppose, but what you will have is more like an airspeed
>indicator than a true angle-of-attack indicator. The commercially available
>AOA indicators DIVIDE the wing top-side pressure by the bottom-side
>pressure. Reading the DIFFERENCE by probes that are sensitive to
>orientation pretty much describes an airspeed indicator - and you already
>have one of those. The link describes the result as a "Lift Reserve
>Indicator" which sounds like an appropriate label.
>
>Gary Casey
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: ATC BLADE FUSES THAT GLOW WHEN BLOWN |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
Sorry,
Click on the link below:
http://www.jcwhitney.com
Then enter the number below inteh search blank:
49UB1501R
----- Original Message -----
From: <315@cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ATC BLADE FUSES THAT GLOW WHEN BLOWN
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
>
> http://www.jcwhitney.com/SearchCatContainer.jhtml?_requestid21150
>
> ANYBODY KNOW HOW THESE WORK AND IF THEY WOULD BE JUST AS RELIABLE AS
REGULAR ATC'S. I AM BUIDING A BATTERY BUS IN THE TAIL CONE OF MY RV6A AND
THOUGHT THESE WOULD MAKE IT EASY TO SEE WHICH FUSE BLEW WITHOUT CRAWLING
BACK INTO THE TAILCONE.
> THANKS,
> NED
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: angle of attack indicator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:58 PM 4/5/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski
><krasinski@direcway.com>
<snip>
>In the other design the probe has two sensing openings, one on top and
>one on the bottom, and you measure the pressure difference between these
>two, and not between the probe and the static port. That produces a
>pressure difference signal proportional to the attack angle (measured in
>respect to some reference angle, depending how you mount the probe)
>multiplied by the dynamic pressure, and this product is rougly the lift
>reserve. If you jerk the controlls the measured pressure difference
>will change a lot because of change of the attack angle.
Jerzy, Thanks for taking this on. You save me some writing.
The LRI as an instrument has been around for a very long time.
I don't remember the first manifestation I saw of this . . .I think
we had an engineering flight test equivalent to it at Cessna 40 years
ago. The biggest hurdle with this system is how to sense/display
very small delta-pressures between the two probe openings. A company
called Dwyer has produced laboratory grade instruments for this
purpose for decades. Their Magnehelic series gages were, I believe,
made it possible for a number of companies to offer this kind
of cockpit panel instrumentation. See:
http://www.dwyer-inst.com/htdocs/pressure/2000.html
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve.htm
http://www.liftreserve.com/
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/liftres_indicators.php
http://www.snyder.on.ca/pages/angle%20of%20attack.jpg
here's a retouched version of the drawing:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/angle_of_attack.jpg
As someone suggested, there are solid state pressure
transducers capable of differential pressure sensitivities
needed for this task . . . although the miniature
Magnehelic gages are interesting for their simplicity
and no power required for operation.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Hall Effect Ammeters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charles Brame <Charleyb@earthlink.net>
Running b-leads from both the main and backup alternator through my
VM-1000 Ammeter hall-sensor is exactly what I want to do. However, I
haven't found a way to get both fat wires through the hole. Any suggestions?
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
--------------------------------
> Time: 11:38:56 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hall Effect Ammeters
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 10:04 AM 4/4/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Geoff Evans
> ><hellothaimassage@yahoo.com>
> >
> >A few months back in the archives, Bob wrote:
> >
> >-----
> > You can also use the hall-sensor to measure
> > the current in more than one wire wherein the sensor
> > sees the algebraic sum of all the currents. Not much
> > application for this in airplanes but there is ONE
> > two-wire opportunity. You can run the b-lead for both
> > the main and aux alternators through the sensor and it
> > will read either alternator or the sum of both should they
> > both happen to be on and delivering power.
> >----
> >
> >I'm not quite sure how one could do this, as the b-leads from the different
> >alternators seem to go to different places. In drawing Z-13, for example, the
> >main b-lead goes the the starter and then the battery contactor, but the
> >alternate b-lead goes to the *other* side of the battery contactor.
> >
> >Am I missing something, or is there a way to run two b-leads through a single
> >hall effect sensor when the b-leads need to go to different places?
>
> The hall sensor has no way of knowing where the wires
> it watches goes and doesn't care. It measures the total
> magnetic field around the wire(s) and converts this to
> a voltage proportional to magnetic field which is in
> turn proportional to the sum of currents in the wires.
>
> Now, suppose you had a pair of wires, each carrying
> 5A in the same direction through the sensor. The sensor
> has no way to know if it's one wire with 10A or 5 wires
> with 2A. Suppose you had two wires; one carrying
> 10A in one direction and a second wire with 3A
> in the OPPOSITE direction, the hall sensor would "see"
> a field proportional to 7A and would respond appropriately.
>
> You can run both alternator output leads through the
> same sensor. If both are running, then the sensor would
> report the sum total of output from both irrespective
> of their sizes . . . in most cases, the alternators
> do not run at the same time. In the "All-Electric-Airplane-
> on-a-Budget" drawing, running both alternator feed wires
> through the same sensor would allow it to read EITHER
> or BOTH alternators, depending on which ones were turned
> on. Given that this system is designed to operate on
> alternator at a time, whatever the Amps display says
> at the moment is the output load for the alternator
> currently ON.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Bolder Technologies still operating? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
While looking for some other things on the J.C. Whitney
site, I ran across this critter:
http://www.jcwhitney.com/product.jhtml?CATID=141565&FID=967&BQ=jcw2
also find other folks still showing the Secure Start
product in their online catalogs:
https://secure2.lswwm.com/cgi-bin/cart006/BOL900XLT.html?id=JzpyTgko
Last time I knew, this product used a very small, 1 a.h.
sealed lead acid cell made by Bolder Technologies. See:
http://www.industryweek.com/CurrentArticles/asp/articles.asp?ArticleID=346
http://www.chipcenter.com/power/powp006.htm
http://www.edgar-online.com/brand/businessweek/glimpse/glimpse.pl?symbol=BOLD
http://denver.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2001/04/02/daily7.html
As near as I can tell, Bolder is out of existence . . . yet here
the folks still offering the product. I was unable to find any
recent postings about the health and welfare of Bolder or
any other company producing the amazing little 1 a.h. cells
that will dump nearly 1000A . . .
If any of you run across this product in a store, I'd appreciate
it if you could get the name of a manufacturer and/or distributor
off the box.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
Message 14
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| Subject: | Could someone crimp a few D-Subs for me? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@globaleyes.net>
Hi group,
I purchased the low voltage module, thinking I could borrow a D-sub pin
crimper tool from the local university's avionics shop. Turns out they
don't have one.
Would someone volunteer to crimp a few pieces of 22AWG onto the pins for me,
using your tool? Of course I'll supply everything and postage both ways.
If you're up for it, please drop me a line off-line.
And of course, please do not archive.
Sam Hoskins Quickie Q-200
Murphysboro, IL
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Z-14 Interface with FADEC |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Bob -
Just returned from Sun N Fun and some conversations wi/ the Velocity folks and
the Aerosance (FADEC) folks. In a dual battery aircraft with 2 x 17AH batteries
ganged for start, the FADEC will brown out and the engine will not start
reliably.
Question: I know that you were looking into a solution to this and wonder if it
has been completed.
We are installing the Z-14 system and have one channel of the FADEC on each
battery bus. Thus when we crossfeed for starting, we risk the brownout. One
solution Aerosance recommends is to install a larger battery on the 60 amp
alternator circuit. A 35 AH battery would work as we would then not have to
crossfeed for start and the FADEC would get full voltage from the 17AH battery
on the 20 amp alternator circuit. The downside of this is more weight and we
would lose the battery rotation system you recommend.
Question: Could we put 2 17's in parallel for the large battery? Any risks in
this approach besides adding parts count? We would then have a 3 year rotation
cycle of 17 AH batteries.
Thanks,
John Schroeder
Lancair Super ES
Message 16
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| Subject: | Bolder Technologies still operating? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@globaleyes.net>
Bob,
I used to be a stock holder in Bolder. Yes, they went belly up, another
case of company execs. giving themselves big bonuses as the ship was
sinking.
A friend of mine was very closely involved with the Secure Start and I
copied him on this e-mail. You might want to contact Dave about the cells.
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bolder Technologies still operating?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
While looking for some other things on the J.C. Whitney
site, I ran across this critter:
http://www.jcwhitney.com/product.jhtml?CATID=141565&FID=967&BQ=jcw2
also find other folks still showing the Secure Start
product in their online catalogs:
https://secure2.lswwm.com/cgi-bin/cart006/BOL900XLT.html?id=JzpyTgko
Last time I knew, this product used a very small, 1 a.h.
sealed lead acid cell made by Bolder Technologies. See:
http://www.industryweek.com/CurrentArticles/asp/articles.asp?ArticleID=346
http://www.chipcenter.com/power/powp006.htm
http://www.edgar-online.com/brand/businessweek/glimpse/glimpse.pl?symbol=BOL
D
http://denver.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2001/04/02/daily7.html
As near as I can tell, Bolder is out of existence . . . yet here
the folks still offering the product. I was unable to find any
recent postings about the health and welfare of Bolder or
any other company producing the amazing little 1 a.h. cells
that will dump nearly 1000A . . .
If any of you run across this product in a store, I'd appreciate
it if you could get the name of a manufacturer and/or distributor
off the box.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bolder Technologies still operating? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
Hi Bob,
Just found abit f news on Bolder Tech.:
http://202.66.146.82/listco/sg/gpbatteries/annual/2002/chairst.pdf
Looks like they got bought out.
I pass on anything else I find.
BTW, would these batteries make a good backup battery for my electric
ignition????
Thanks,
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bolder Technologies still operating?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> While looking for some other things on the J.C. Whitney
> site, I ran across this critter:
>
> http://www.jcwhitney.com/product.jhtml?CATID=141565&FID=967&BQ=jcw2
>
> also find other folks still showing the Secure Start
> product in their online catalogs:
>
> https://secure2.lswwm.com/cgi-bin/cart006/BOL900XLT.html?id=JzpyTgko
>
>
> Last time I knew, this product used a very small, 1 a.h.
> sealed lead acid cell made by Bolder Technologies. See:
>
> http://www.industryweek.com/CurrentArticles/asp/articles.asp?ArticleID=346
> http://www.chipcenter.com/power/powp006.htm
>
http://www.edgar-online.com/brand/businessweek/glimpse/glimpse.pl?symbol=BOL
D
> http://denver.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2001/04/02/daily7.html
>
>
> As near as I can tell, Bolder is out of existence . . . yet here
> the folks still offering the product. I was unable to find any
> recent postings about the health and welfare of Bolder or
> any other company producing the amazing little 1 a.h. cells
> that will dump nearly 1000A . . .
>
> If any of you run across this product in a store, I'd appreciate
> it if you could get the name of a manufacturer and/or distributor
> off the box.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
> | over the man who cannot read them. |
> | - Mark Twain |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bolder Technologies still operating? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
Here is an html withthe same message:
http://www.gpbatteries.com.sg/newproducts.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bolder Technologies still operating?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> While looking for some other things on the J.C. Whitney
> site, I ran across this critter:
>
> http://www.jcwhitney.com/product.jhtml?CATID=141565&FID=967&BQ=jcw2
>
> also find other folks still showing the Secure Start
> product in their online catalogs:
>
> https://secure2.lswwm.com/cgi-bin/cart006/BOL900XLT.html?id=JzpyTgko
>
>
> Last time I knew, this product used a very small, 1 a.h.
> sealed lead acid cell made by Bolder Technologies. See:
>
> http://www.industryweek.com/CurrentArticles/asp/articles.asp?ArticleID=346
> http://www.chipcenter.com/power/powp006.htm
>
http://www.edgar-online.com/brand/businessweek/glimpse/glimpse.pl?symbol=BOL
D
> http://denver.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2001/04/02/daily7.html
>
>
> As near as I can tell, Bolder is out of existence . . . yet here
> the folks still offering the product. I was unable to find any
> recent postings about the health and welfare of Bolder or
> any other company producing the amazing little 1 a.h. cells
> that will dump nearly 1000A . . .
>
> If any of you run across this product in a store, I'd appreciate
> it if you could get the name of a manufacturer and/or distributor
> off the box.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
> | over the man who cannot read them. |
> | - Mark Twain |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Bolder Technologies still operating? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
Here is the whole story of the bankruptcy and buy out:
http://www.irasia.com/listco/sg/gpbatteries/press/p011220.htm
I wonder why my emails to aeroelectric always staggerin after 15 or so
minutes and sometomes longer and out of chronological sequence???
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bolder Technologies still operating?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> While looking for some other things on the J.C. Whitney
> site, I ran across this critter:
>
> http://www.jcwhitney.com/product.jhtml?CATID=141565&FID=967&BQ=jcw2
>
> also find other folks still showing the Secure Start
> product in their online catalogs:
>
> https://secure2.lswwm.com/cgi-bin/cart006/BOL900XLT.html?id=JzpyTgko
>
>
> Last time I knew, this product used a very small, 1 a.h.
> sealed lead acid cell made by Bolder Technologies. See:
>
> http://www.industryweek.com/CurrentArticles/asp/articles.asp?ArticleID=346
> http://www.chipcenter.com/power/powp006.htm
>
http://www.edgar-online.com/brand/businessweek/glimpse/glimpse.pl?symbol=BOL
D
> http://denver.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2001/04/02/daily7.html
>
>
> As near as I can tell, Bolder is out of existence . . . yet here
> the folks still offering the product. I was unable to find any
> recent postings about the health and welfare of Bolder or
> any other company producing the amazing little 1 a.h. cells
> that will dump nearly 1000A . . .
>
> If any of you run across this product in a store, I'd appreciate
> it if you could get the name of a manufacturer and/or distributor
> off the box.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
> | over the man who cannot read them. |
> | - Mark Twain |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | JCWhitney heaters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <ktlkrn@cox.net>
While cruising the JC Whitney site I also noticed some small 12volt
heaters/defrosters. I think these would work perfect for most airplanes
especially for defrosting. This would save the hassles of doing a heater
muff and somewhat complicated duct work.
Anyone try these? Any thoughts?
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
Aerocomp 7SL
-----
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Bolder Technologies still operating? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
Johnson Controls had a lisence to produce TMF batteries and it apears they
made only a few before the lisence ran out:. I copied an article that
outlines this. The last paragraph has a lnk to a fellow looking for more TMF
battteries for his electric drag bike.....
http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:nFNbdZieXNQC:solstice.crest.org/efficie
ncy/ev-list-archive/9910/msg00337.html+optima+inspira+battery&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
This is G o o g l e's cache of
http://solstice.crest.org/efficiency/ev-list-archive/9910/msg00337.html.
G o o g l e's cache is the snapshot that we took of the page as we crawled
the web.
The page may have changed since that time. Click here for the current page
without highlighting.
To link to or bookmark this page, use the following url:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:nFNbdZieXNQC:solstice.crest.org/efficie
ncy/ev-list-archive/9910/msg00337.html+optima+inspira+battery&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Google is not affiliated with the authors of this page nor responsible for
its content.
These search terms have been highlighted: optima inspira battery
----
----
[Subject Prev][Subject Next][Subject Index]
Re: Johnson controls
----
Subject: Re: Johnson controls
From: Bill Dube <billdube@killacycle.com>
----
At 04:39 PM 10/7/99 -0700, you wrote:
>The Cloud dragster had some of those in it also, of 2 different sizes. They
>are a bit smaller than the Hawker's smallest, and appeared to be of 6 cel
>spiral style, like Optimas, and were black cased with blue letter labels.
>The connectors didn't look very robust, and were of an odd style off the
>side I had not seen before.
>
>I should have gotten pictures, but figured they were very close to
>production from the look of the blue on black "Inspira" labels, and
although
>they were probably there, I don't recall seeing any "prototype" stickers.
>
>Not relabeled Boulders from what I can tell, but actual JCs.
>
>Erik
>EKO Systems
>
>> Not sure about the tranny, but I've heard he no longer runs Hawkers.
>> Switched to a Johnson Control thin-film battery. And no, I don't
>> know where he, or anyone else got them. (Prototype/beta, etc.)
>>
>> My understanding is they are called "Inspira"(?) batteries and are
>> relabelled Bolder Batteries.
>> GF
Here are the facts.
The Inspira battery is manufactured by Johnson Controls under license from
Bolder Technologies. Johnson Controls (JCI) has an exclusive license to
make TMF style batteries for Automobile starting batteries. The exclusivity
runs out in a few years.
Inspiras come in several different sizes. I believe they make 3, 4.5 and 6
amp-hr versions. They are still in the prototype stage of development. From
what I've observed, they apparently don't have as much power density that
Bolder cells. I suspect that JCI is using a cast-on strap similar in nature
to an Optima. That is, a portion of the positive plate sticks up from the
top of the jelly roll in one quadrant, while the negative sticks up in
another. These "tabs" are then connected via cast-on jumpers to adjacent
cells and the output terminals. (This is speculation, keep in mind.) The
tabs are typically the weak spot of the design and limit maximum current
flow.
Bolder's design has the entire edge of each plate bonded to a cast-on cap
at either end of the cell. This results in minimum resistance, uniform
current density, and maximum power density (more correctly, specific power.)
A single, 1 amp-hr Bolder cell can take a 1,000 amp load. Three in
parallel can take 3,000 amps. I don't think that a 3 amp-hr JCI Inspira can
go to 3,000 amps without damage. I would be surprised if the 6 amp-hr
Inspira can.
Bill Dube' billdube@killacycle.com
check my website at:
http://www.killacycle.com
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Bolder Technologies still operating? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
Okay my last post on this... This article from a trade journal mentions TMF
being a "great white hope"
http://www.batteriesinternational.com/default.asp?Page=6&SID=5143&ISS=42
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Could someone crimp a few D-Subs for me? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
I would be happy to do it for you. Let me know if you want me to. Tim
Rhodenbaugh timrhod@aol.com I,m in ohio
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: JCWhitney heaters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jrstone@insightbb.com>
One of what? Got a link for us?
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <ktlkrn@cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: JCWhitney heaters
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <ktlkrn@cox.net>
>
> While cruising the JC Whitney site I also noticed some small 12volt
> heaters/defrosters. I think these would work perfect for most airplanes
> especially for defrosting. This would save the hassles of doing a heater
> muff and somewhat complicated duct work.
>
> Anyone try these? Any thoughts?
>
> Darwin N. Barrie
> Chandler AZ
> Aerocomp 7SL
> -----
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: JCWhitney heaters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <ktlkrn@cox.net>
Check www.jcwhitney.com Look under A/C heating and air-conditioning. Then
look under auxiliary heaters. It is the mini heater.
Darwin N. Barrie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone@insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: JCWhitney heaters
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone"
<jrstone@insightbb.com>
>
> One of what? Got a link for us?
> Do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ktlkrn@cox.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: JCWhitney heaters
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <ktlkrn@cox.net>
> >
> > While cruising the JC Whitney site I also noticed some small 12volt
> > heaters/defrosters. I think these would work perfect for most airplanes
> > especially for defrosting. This would save the hassles of doing a heater
> > muff and somewhat complicated duct work.
> >
> > Anyone try these? Any thoughts?
> >
> > Darwin N. Barrie
> > Chandler AZ
> > Aerocomp 7SL
> > -----
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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