Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:19 AM - Re: LED post lights for instrument lighting? (Ian Scott)
2. 02:19 AM - Re: Multiple GPS feeds (Ian Scott)
3. 04:26 AM - Re: LED post lights for instrument lighting? (Paul Messinger)
4. 05:28 AM - Re: How to dim multiple annunciator lights? (Mark Phillips)
5. 06:25 AM - Re: How to dim multiple annunciator lights? (Peter Laurence)
6. 07:30 AM - Re: JCWhitney heaters (Jim Ziegler)
7. 07:38 AM - Re: Alternator Recommendation - Subaru EA-81 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 08:04 AM - Crowbar OVM (Clay Smith)
9. 08:30 AM - Re: JCWhitney heaters (Matt Prather)
10. 08:55 AM - Re: #22 size pin removal tool...S-Tec (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 09:00 AM - Re: Crowbar OVM (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 09:07 AM - Hall Effect Ammeters (Charles Brame)
13. 09:27 AM - Re: Hall Effect Ammeters (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 10:35 AM - Re: Z-14 Interface with FADEC (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 01:12 PM - DRE-244e Intercom wiring (Phil Birkelbach)
16. 01:14 PM - RGbattery (thomas pekar)
17. 02:13 PM - Standby Battery Charging (Barton Guderian)
18. 02:30 PM - Re: Z-14 Interface with FADEC (John Schroeder)
19. 02:58 PM - RG battery (TimRhod@aol.com)
20. 03:08 PM - Re: Multiple GPS feeds (Scot Stambaugh)
21. 03:14 PM - Warning circuit (rv6tc)
22. 03:30 PM - Re: RG battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 04:00 PM - Re: DRE-244e Intercom wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 05:12 PM - Re: E.I. instruments need pampering? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 05:13 PM - Re: Warning circuit (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 07:11 PM - Must strobe feed wires be shielded? (Sam Hoskins)
27. 07:45 PM - Re: Warning circuit (rv6tc)
28. 08:15 PM - Re: Must strobe feed wires be shielded? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
29. 09:14 PM - Re: Must strobe feed wires be shielded? (Sam Hoskins)
30. 09:44 PM - Re: Must strobe feed wires be shielded? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
31. 09:51 PM - Re: Standby Battery Charging (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
32. 10:09 PM - Re: LED post lights for instrument lighting? ()
33. 10:50 PM - Re: Z-14 Interface with FADEC (Tom Schiff)
Message 1
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| Subject: | LED post lights for instrument lighting? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ian Scott" <jabiru22@yahoo.com.au>
I will let you know when I have done a setup with the new 20000 Millicad
LEDS
Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LED post lights for instrument lighting?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
--> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:47 PM 4/4/2003 +1000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ian Scott"
>--> <jabiru22@yahoo.com.au>
>
>
>HI BOB and all,
>
>Have you got any ideal, examples for LED post lights for cockpit
>instrument lighting?
This is possible but for the moment, difficult
to do practically. Output beam-width LEDs is narrow
compared to the more spherical output from lamps.
Getting an LED to illuminate a post light fixture
in the same manner as the incandescent lamp would
take some doing. The light fixtures I've purchased
from RS in the past for my LV Warn indicators appears
to have been discontinued. I'm looking for a new fixture
that gives me the nice scattering pattern in front
of the LED as the old one did . . . it's not a plug-n-
play situation across the spectrum of fixtures.
There are LEDs with sufficient light output to do
what you propose but the physics on which they
operate makes them a less than idea substitute.
Bob . . .
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Multiple GPS feeds |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ian Scott" <jabiru22@yahoo.com.au>
Just a side note,
The anywhere map is happy to drive a autopilot.
So the hook op would like this
Antenna---------GPS---------Anywheremap-------------autopilot---------se
rvo-------------wings and tail------------air
On a another note something like the Garmin etrex at $100 USD makes a
lovely 12 channel GPS that will work for 24 hours on a set of AA
batteries and could be useful outside the aircraft.
Plus 2 is better than one for redundancy.
Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scot
Stambaugh
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Multiple GPS feeds
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scot Stambaugh
--> <sstambaugh@qualcomm.com>
Steve,
The GPS 35 is a complete 12 channel GPS receiver, not just an
antenna. once power is applied, it finds satellites and gathers a
longitude and latitude position coordinates as well as developing a
error
metric and a number of other variables that it can offer to whatever
devise
it is connected to, such as a Trutrak A/P or a Chelton Flight Systems
EFIS
or Control Vision's Anywhere moving map package. The interface to the
GPS
35 is a RS-232 two way serial connection that reports the various
information to the above instruments. RS-232 is intended to be a
point-to-point protocol, which means one unit on each end of the
cable. Since the above mentioned units assume that there is only one
device on the other end of the cable it only sends the information that
is
requested of it. So, consider this situation. If you have one GPS 35
and
you connect it to the Trutrak and also the GTX 327. The GTX 327 may
only
request Lat/Lon information and never ask for any of the other data that
the unit makes available, but the Trutrak wants to also request position
error data for example. What could happen is the Trutrack would send a
command to the GPS requesting a position error message and the GPS
promptly
replies. The GTX 327 is connected to the same wire and gets the
position
error message same as the Trutrak but one of two things will happen.
The
design engineer for the GTX 327 assumed that this would always be a
point-to-point connection and that all messages are for him only and
would
attempt to decipher the "position error" message as Lat/Lon. It would
either get confused and declare an error, or worse, it would somehow
convince itself that the data string is a Lat/Lon and treat it as
such. Now everything is hosed.
Now, onto your original question, GPS antenna signals should be able to
be
split and shared between GPS receivers but the signal is not real
strong. It dissipates over long cable runs and should be carefully
managed
when adding additional loads to it such as making it drive two GPS's.
You
can purchase GPS amplifiers for long cable runs or just to boost the
signal
but you need to know what your doing because if you don't need to boost
the
signal that much and you give the GPS receiver too much signal that will
cause signal distortion. A reduction in signal power to the GPS
receiver
will usually result in a difficultly for the receiver to detect and
acquire
as many satellites. This increases position error and can cause signal
loss conditions more often.
Sorry for the long dissertation. I am in a similar situation, with a
GPS
35 driving my CFS EFIS-2000 and needing (but not wanting) a second GPS
35
to drive my Anywhere map PDA system as a backup.
good luck,
scot
At 10:02 PM 4/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve J Hurlbut"
><sjhdcl@kingston.net>
>
>Can a GPS antenna feed more than 1 GPS device?
>
>Trutrak Flight Systems says no, Garmin says yes.
>
>Which is it and anybody have experience doing this?
>
>Specically I want to feed GPS signal to my Digitrak autopilot and GTX
>327 transponder. I have a GPS 35 receiver as recommended by Trutrak
>Flight Systems.
>
>Steve
>Rv7A
>Wiring
>
>
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: LED post lights for instrument lighting? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@tenforward.com>
Bob;
Have you looked at the "inverted cone" style of LED where the Viewing Angle
is 180 deg?
Mouser 512-QL484 (plus color code) from Fairchild. Smaller case than normal
but shape provides 180 deg VU angle.
I have not tried them.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LED post lights for instrument lighting?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 09:47 PM 4/4/2003 +1000, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ian Scott"
<jabiru22@yahoo.com.au>
> >
> >
> >HI BOB and all,
> >
> >Have you got any ideal, examples for LED post lights for cockpit
> >instrument lighting?
>
> This is possible but for the moment, difficult
> to do practically. Output beam-width LEDs is narrow
> compared to the more spherical output from lamps.
> Getting an LED to illuminate a post light fixture
> in the same manner as the incandescent lamp would
> take some doing. The light fixtures I've purchased
> from RS in the past for my LV Warn indicators appears
> to have been discontinued. I'm looking for a new fixture
> that gives me the nice scattering pattern in front
> of the LED as the old one did . . . it's not a plug-n-
> play situation across the spectrum of fixtures.
>
> There are LEDs with sufficient light output to do
> what you propose but the physics on which they
> operate makes them a less than idea substitute.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: How to dim multiple annunciator lights? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Hi Kevin-
I was wrestling with using incandescents for my annunciator and the need for a
PTT on it- In earlier discussions on the A-list Bob basically said to toss this
plan and go with LEDs, so I've been experimenting. (oh, no!) Something I've been
playing with is using one of these:
http://mpja.com/directview.asp?product=4057+MD
It's a "DC Motor Speed Control" using a 555 timer for PWM for $16. It's set up
with a forward/reverse switch on the board and comes with a small motor. It
arrived as a "kit" so I had to dust off the soldering iron and I was amazed it
actually worked- very fine control of the motor from a crawl to full speed. I
removed the switch and wired a project board up with a bunch of different LEDs
I
bought from the same outfit (cheap!), mostly three LEDs in series with an
appropriate resistor in a variety of colors for experimentation. It takes them
from full bright down to about half brightness. I'm planning on using this thing
to power my annunciator (ten arrays of 3 LEDs ea.) and all my panel legends
(backlit through engraved overlay- 20 "arrays" of 3 LEDs ea. for a total of less
than 2 amps total draw, assuming 20 mA per LED, and my math is right. 8-) (the
thing is rated for 10 amps)
The only thing I can't dim is the "starter on" and "fuel pump on" annunciators
as
these monitor actual voltage at each, but I don't particularly see a problem as
these aren't normally lit in cruise, or at least shouldn't be.
One problem is the pot controlling the output pulse width is soldered to the
board and will have to be mounted remotely on the panel. The one supplied with
the kit is labeled "50KB" and seems a little cheesy as the output flickers
somewhat as it rotates- it is stable when not being turned. Can somebody
recommend a suitable, quality substitute for this pot? All three leads are
connected in the circuit.
Mark Phillips
Kevin Horton wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>
> I've started pondering how to control the intensity of several
> annunciator lights, but I haven't come up with a solution that I like
> yet. I figure I can't be the first builder with this problem, so
> there must be several good ideas I haven't thought of yet.
>
> I've got four LED annunciators that I need to deal with. All will be
> unlit most of the time, but they could be illuminated for long
> periods if they are annunciating a system failure. All of them are
> driven by a 12V signal when they are in the ON state. I.e 12V = ON,
> 0V = OFF.
>
> I had planned on running the ground return for all of them through a
> rotary potentiometer, but now that I start looking, I can't find a
> potentiometer that controls four outputs. Are there any reasonably
> priced, small, single-turn potentiometers that control four outputs?
> I haven't figured out how many watts I need to deal with yet, so this
> idea might require too big a potentiometer.
>
> My next idea was to power the annunciators with a small solid state
> dimmer module, and to use relays to control the ground return from
> each annunciator. But that requires a relay for each annunciator, so
> I'm not happy about the complexity. Is there a cheap, reliable and
> easy to install solid state solution I can use instead of relays?
>
> The only simple solution I've thought of is to run the ground returns
> for all annunciators through a single potentiometer. The intensity
> will vary depending on how many annunciators are lit, but the vast
> majority of cases will only have one lit at a time, so this might be
> workable. Are there pitfalls to this idea that I haven't thought of?
>
> What other solutions are there?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: How to dim multiple annunciator lights? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Peter Laurence <dr.laurence@mbdi.org>
Kevin
Just completed wiring a Velocity. The instuments utilize a fibre optic
system. We used a pot to contol the brightness.
You may have to experiment with the total ohms of the pot.
Make sure it's a linear pot.
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorto1537@rogers.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: How to dim multiple annunciator lights?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
<khorto1537@rogers.com>
>
> I've started pondering how to control the intensity of several
> annunciator lights, but I haven't come up with a solution that I like
> yet. I figure I can't be the first builder with this problem, so
> there must be several good ideas I haven't thought of yet.
>
> I've got four LED annunciators that I need to deal with. All will be
> unlit most of the time, but they could be illuminated for long
> periods if they are annunciating a system failure. All of them are
> driven by a 12V signal when they are in the ON state. I.e 12V = ON,
> 0V = OFF.
>
> I had planned on running the ground return for all of them through a
> rotary potentiometer, but now that I start looking, I can't find a
> potentiometer that controls four outputs. Are there any reasonably
> priced, small, single-turn potentiometers that control four outputs?
> I haven't figured out how many watts I need to deal with yet, so this
> idea might require too big a potentiometer.
>
> My next idea was to power the annunciators with a small solid state
> dimmer module, and to use relays to control the ground return from
> each annunciator. But that requires a relay for each annunciator, so
> I'm not happy about the complexity. Is there a cheap, reliable and
> easy to install solid state solution I can use instead of relays?
>
> The only simple solution I've thought of is to run the ground returns
> for all annunciators through a single potentiometer. The intensity
> will vary depending on how many annunciators are lit, but the vast
> majority of cases will only have one lit at a time, so this might be
> workable. Are there pitfalls to this idea that I haven't thought of?
>
> What other solutions are there?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: JCWhitney heaters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Ziegler <jcz@espllc.com>
Amazing and refreshing to see the word "problematical"
used correctly.......
>
> The garden variety, plug in the wall heaters you find
> in hardware stores are 1500W/5000BTU devices. I've
> used these to defrost and pre-warm a car sitting in
> the driveway . . . takes about 30 min on a really
> cold morning with the car sitting still . . . move
> a 150 MPH slipstream over the car at local ambient
> temps, an the usefulness of the 1500W heater becomes
> problematical.
>
> I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying it but be
> aware of the numbers and the fact that your available
> energy from most alternators is going to be very
> limited.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
jcz@espllc.com (Jim Ziegler)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator Recommendation - Subaru EA-81 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:47 PM 4/6/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>
>After reading a BK's AeroElectric and ended up with a dead alternator,
>I'm looking to replace the alternator included with my Subaru EA-81 from
>Stratus with one that works with an external voltage regulator. Has
>anybody had any good experience with any particular brand, etc.?
What brand came on it? If you change much, you may have to
build new brackets. Satisfactory performance may not
hang so much on getting an alternator with external regulator
as it does on getting a known superior brand (Nipon Denso
for one) and paying attention to mechanical concerns like
balancing the rotor for long bearing life and tolerance
for high-pulley ratios that make the alternator run fast
in airplanes.
Let's start with what you had before. What brand was it
and how did it fail?
Bob . . .
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Clay Smith" <cbsmith@nf.sympatico.ca>
Hi Bob,
I did build my own Crowbar following your schematic diagram. I first bench tested
the circuit using a variable power supply and set the trip voltage to 16.2
V as you recommended. The circuit seemed to be operating perfectly. So, I installed
the unit in my panel and further tested with a small, very old, ATV battery.
Now I'm getting a lot of false trips when turning switches from on to
off. I allowed the battery to drain down to about 10 to 11 and even tried re-adjusting
the trip point of the OVM. Still the same. My guess is that I'm getting
a quick positive voltage spike when I remove a load (switch off) from the
battery, so for trouble-shooting purposes I tried putting a 100 uf electrolytic
cap across the terminals. This did eliminated the false trips...? So do
you think my circuit is defective? Shouldn't it be able to ignore these spikes?
Perhaps these spikes are normal and my old battery doesn't have enough capacity
? FWIW, I'm using all polyfuses in my panel and the OVM is tripping a 5
amp polyfuse. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Clay
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: JCWhitney heaters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
I have one other observation regarding cabin heat. Internal combustion
engines are at best only about 50% thermally efficient (much less for
aircraft). This means that for every gallon of gas burned, less than half
of it is available for thrust.
Engines are often rated in terms of kilowatts instead of horsepower. Small
aircraft engines operate in the range of 100kW to 200kW of output. This
means,
because of their imperfect efficiency, they reject more than their rated
100kW to
200kW in the form of heat. The waste heat is lost through exhaust gas and
through the cooling systems (air, oil, water).
What this all implies is that it is MUCH more efficient to tap into your
engine's
waste heat rejection (cooling) system, whether it be the exhaust mounted
heat muff, the oil cooler, or a water heated exchanger. The heat your engine
generates is waste that must be transferred to the air around the airplane
anyway.
Another way to look at it is that you have the choice to tap into this
free heat
source, or you can make the engine generate extra electricity in order to
produce even more heat. A 1500W heater takes at least 1.1horsepower, and
a 5kW heater will require an additional 3.7horsepower. If you have an O-320
it is rejecting more than 200kW in cooling loss. A very small percentage
of this
will keep the cabin nice and warm.
Regards,
Matt Prather
N34RD
>
>>
>> The garden variety, plug in the wall heaters you find
>> in hardware stores are 1500W/5000BTU devices. I've
>> used these to defrost and pre-warm a car sitting in
>> the driveway . . . takes about 30 min on a really
>> cold morning with the car sitting still . . . move
>> a 150 MPH slipstream over the car at local ambient
>> temps, an the usefulness of the 1500W heater becomes
>> problematical.
>>
>> I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying it but be
>> aware of the numbers and the fact that your available
>> energy from most alternators is going to be very
>> limited.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: #22 size pin removal tool...S-Tec |
installation
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:59 AM 4/6/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen"
><recapen@earthlink.net>
>
>Hey listers,
>
>Anyone out there have a #22 size pin removal/insertion tool? It would be
>smaller than the tool that you would use on your UPSAT gear (I have one of
>those). It is for the high density connectors (like S-Tec).
>
>If so, where did you get it? I've already tried
>mouser/digikey/altex...all they have is the bigger ones. I know that this
>is a fairly inexpensive tool...but when you don't have one it's worth a
>fortune...!
>
>I've already sent a zap to the connector manufacturer - but I thought I'd
>try you guy/gals too!
http://www.tecratools.com/pages/datacom/extraction.html #35232
http://www.e-sci.com/jensen/RENDER/1/56/510/W510.html #080B044
http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/catalogpages/2002/236.pdf #91285-1
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T031/0110.pdf #91285-1
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/613/539.pdf #571-912851
http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bin/scripts/pd/0160-0009/0160-0010/0160-0010
91285-1 (other one is HD20)
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 11
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:34 PM 4/7/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Clay Smith"
><cbsmith@nf.sympatico.ca>
>
>Hi Bob,
>I did build my own Crowbar following your schematic diagram. I first
>bench tested the circuit using a variable power supply and set the trip
>voltage to 16.2 V as you recommended. The circuit seemed to be operating
>perfectly. So, I installed the unit in my panel and further tested with a
>small, very old, ATV battery. Now I'm getting a lot of false trips when
>turning switches from on to off. I allowed the battery to drain down to
>about 10 to 11 and even tried re-adjusting the trip point of the
>OVM. Still the same. My guess is that I'm getting a quick positive
>voltage spike when I remove a load (switch off) from the battery, so for
>trouble-shooting purposes I tried putting a 100 uf electrolytic cap across
>the terminals. This did eliminated the false trips...? So do you think
>my circuit is defective? Shouldn't it be able to ignore these spikes?
>Perhaps these spikes are normal and my old battery doesn't have enough
>capacity ? FWIW, I'm using all polyfuses in my panel an!
>d the OVM is tripping a 5 amp polyfuse. Any suggestions would be
>appreciated.
Try a smaller bypass . . . 100uf is a tad heavy. A 10uF tantalum
would be about right if you want to put it right in the crowbar
ovm. Solder (+) to SCR anode, (-) to SCR cathode.
Alternatively, tying the 100uF capacitor to another protected
feed from the bus would be beneficial to both the OVM and
other devices in your system.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Hall Effect Ammeters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charles Brame <charleyb@earthlink.net>
My alternators are a B&C 60 amp and a B&C SD-8. The sensor hole is
approximately 1/2 inch dia.
Charlie
---------------------
> Time: 07:14:16 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hall Effect Ammeters
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 04:08 PM 4/5/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charles Brame
> ><Charleyb@earthlink.net>
> >
> >Running b-leads from both the main and backup alternator through my
> >VM-1000 Ammeter hall-sensor is exactly what I want to do. However, I
> >haven't found a way to get both fat wires through the hole. Any suggestions?
>
> How big are your alternators and how big is the hole
> in the hall sensor?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Hall Effect Ammeters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:06 AM 4/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charles Brame
><charleyb@earthlink.net>
>
>My alternators are a B&C 60 amp and a B&C SD-8. The sensor hole is
>approximately 1/2 inch dia.
Hmmm . . . teh 60A alternator would be quite happy on
a 4AWG or even 6AWG wire, the SD-8 is okay on as small
as 16AWG wire. You should be able to get these through
a 1/2" hole.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 Interface with FADEC |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:43 PM 4/5/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder
><jschroeder@perigee.net>
>
>Bob -
>
>Just returned from Sun N Fun and some conversations wi/ the Velocity folks
>and
>the Aerosance (FADEC) folks. In a dual battery aircraft with 2 x 17AH
>batteries
>ganged for start, the FADEC will brown out and the engine will not start
>reliably.
>
>Question: I know that you were looking into a solution to this and wonder
>if it
>has been completed.
I won't belabor my disappointment that folks who
sell products claimed to be suited for use in airplanes
won't work in an airplane because of dumb reasons that
require users to accommodate the shortcoming . . .
If it were my airplane, I'd build a little voltage booster
illustrated in http://216.55.140.222/temp/Fadec_Boost.gif
This is a Royer oscillator diagram . . . VERY popular in
50's through 70's as high voltage power supplies in vehicular
powered systems. This push-pull power oscillator has a
primary winding suited to an 8-12v input. The secondary winding
is scaled to give you something on the order of 4 volts output
at 12v input.
Under normal operations, a 12 to 14.6 volt bus supply to the
FADEC goes through the transformer secondary and diode
rectifier with a nominal, but acceptable voltage drop. When
you hit the starter button, the power supply is energized and
it boosts the battery voltage by about 4V at 12V dropping to
2.7V at 8V in. This voltage is ADDED to the sagging battery
voltage during cranking only and makes sure the FADEC sees
10.5 volts or better during cranking.
>We are installing the Z-14 system and have one channel of the FADEC on each
>battery bus. Thus when we crossfeed for starting, we risk the brownout. One
>solution Aerosance recommends is to install a larger battery on the 60 amp
>alternator circuit. A 35 AH battery would work as we would then not have to
>crossfeed for start and the FADEC would get full voltage from the 17AH
>battery
>on the 20 amp alternator circuit. The downside of this is more weight and we
>would lose the battery rotation system you recommend.
>
>Question: Could we put 2 17's in parallel for the large battery? Any risks in
>this approach besides adding parts count? We would then have a 3 year
>rotation
>cycle of 17 AH batteries.
You can certainly do that too . . . but the extra 17 pounds
of battery, contactor and wiring seems like a hell of a penalty
to pay to add super-whizzy technology to your engine that's
never going to re-coupe additional costs by any savings
of fuel (does this system let you run cheap plugs?).
The Royer box would be about 2 x 3 x 5 inches and
weigh about a pound.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | DRE-244e Intercom wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
I bought a DRE-244e Intercom off of Ebay and it came without any wiring
diagrams. If anybody has one of these units could I get wiring diagram or a
pinout description? Thanks.
Do Not Archive
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage
http://www.myrv7.com
Message 16
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: thomas pekar <niagaratom@yahoo.com>
I have found a source for the computer rg batteries, can someone give me a part
or model #, many thanks tom pekar
---------------------------------
Message 17
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| Subject: | Standby Battery Charging |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Barton Guderian <bguderia@rconnect.com>
Hello Group:
I am new to group and am so glad to have found it as I am "knowlege
challenged" when it comes to electrical theory and application but can
apply solutions with some competence.
I am flying an aircraft powered by an auto engine. The aircraft is
wired more like a car than an airplane. It has the basic 12 volt
system that any auto
would have. I have two batteries, two coils, two ignition modules and
a distributor with a dual pick-up triggering device.
The main battery is a regular car battery , what amp hour rating I don't
know but it is the battery that would be used in a 1985 Ford
Thunderbird V-6
3.8Liter engine. The standby battery is a sealed motorcycle size
battery rated at I believe 12 amp hour. At present I have a 1 ohm
resistor in line with a wire
running to the main bus bar to keep the standby battery charged. I did
not engineer this, it was on the airframe when I bought it.and the
previous owner said it would work OK. Other aircraft with this
configuration use a line from the main bus to the standby battery with
some diodes in line to regulate the amount of charge that goes from the
main battery to the standby battery.
My question is this. What is the best method to keep the standby
battery properly charged from the main battery and what should I have in
line to best accomplish
this task.
If I have not included enough info for an answer please contact me at
my e-mail address.
Thank you.
Bart Guderian
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 Interface with FADEC |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
> If it were my airplane, I'd build a little voltage booster
> illustrated in http://216.55.140.222/temp/Fadec_Boost.gif
>
> This is a Royer oscillator diagram . . . VERY popular in
> 50's through 70's as high voltage power supplies in vehicular
> powered systems. This push-pull power oscillator has a
> primary winding suited to an 8-12v input. The secondary winding
> is scaled to give you something on the order of 4 volts output
> at 12v input.
>
> Under normal operations, a 12 to 14.6 volt bus supply to the
> FADEC goes through the transformer secondary and diode
> rectifier with a nominal, but acceptable voltage drop. When
> you hit the starter button, the power supply is energized and
> it boosts the battery voltage by about 4V at 12V dropping to
> 2.7V at 8V in. This voltage is ADDED to the sagging battery
> voltage during cranking only and makes sure the FADEC sees
> 10.5 volts or better during cranking.
>
> You can certainly do that too . . . but the extra 17 pounds
> of battery, contactor and wiring seems like a hell of a penalty
> to pay to add super-whizzy technology to your engine that's
> never going to re-coupe additional costs by any savings
> of fuel (does this system let you run cheap plugs?).
>
> The Royer box would be about 2 x 3 x 5 inches and
> weigh about a pound.
>
Bob -
Could you refine this box with specific ratings, specs, etc. for the components.
I'd like to try this option first before going for the third battery or the 35AH
battery.
Thanks,
John Schroeder
Message 19
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
Bob Will a single 17 AH RG battery start a contintenental IO550
consistently?
If so couldnt Z-14 be used as two independent electrical systems one
for starting the other for consistent voltage to FADEC.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Multiple GPS feeds |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scot Stambaugh <sstambaugh@qualcomm.com>
Thanks for the correct Todd. After further research I found out what you
just stated is true with one difference. The data stream definition that
the GPS35 is given must be the same for all of the devices who are
expecting the stream or I think they will get data that they don't expect
and could puck on it.
Sorry for the previous inaccuracies. I will endeavor to be more accurate
before offering info in the future.
At 11:31 PM 4/4/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Todd Houg <thoug@attglobal.net>
>
>Actually, GPS devices that support a serial interface typically support
>the NMEA data stream protocol. The NMEA protocol defines a continuous
>stream of data that the GPS provides. Although the GPS is not "required"
>to provide all of the data types defined by the NMEA. For instance, a
>GPS-35 receiver as Scott mentions is a complete GPS unit that provides an
>NMEA data stream. However, you can't program in a course or waypoints like
>you can on a panel or handheld GPS. Thus the GPS-35 has no clue where you
>want to go, only which way you're going. As such, it cannot provide cross
>track error information which is part of the data stream definition. Thus
>a GPS-35 cannot drive a Navaid autopilot even with the smartcoupler
>because it has no course information to determine if your off track.
>
>But I digress . . .
>The NMEA is a data stream and is not a request protocol as Scott mentions
>below. This data stream is a one way communication from GPS to whatever is
>connected at the other end. Some GPS's can be configured to send different
>optional data types, but this is not done by a device requesting
>information. The data continually streams out of teh receiver, and the
>autopilot/transponder/moving map just sucks it up. Thus it is possible to
>hook up this one way data stream to more than one device as Garmin
>indicated. As such, a single GPS receiver CAN drive the NMEA data stream
>to more than one device. However, If the discussion with TruTrack
>was relating to hooking up multiple GPS antenna's, then the answer to
>that is no, you can't hookup a single antenna to more than one receiver.
>
> Todd Houg
> RV9A - N194TH - reserved
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Scot Stambaugh [SMTP:sstambaugh@qualcomm.com]
>Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 12:37 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Multiple GPS feeds
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scot Stambaugh
><sstambaugh@qualcomm.com>
>
>Steve,
>
>The GPS 35 is a complete 12 channel GPS receiver, not just an
>antenna. once power is applied, it finds satellites and gathers a
>longitude and latitude position coordinates as well as developing a error
>metric and a number of other variables that it can offer to whatever devise
>it is connected to, such as a Trutrak A/P or a Chelton Flight Systems EFIS
>or Control Vision's Anywhere moving map package. The interface to the GPS
>35 is a RS-232 two way serial connection that reports the various
>information to the above instruments. RS-232 is intended to be a
>point-to-point protocol, which means one unit on each end of the
>cable. Since the above mentioned units assume that there is only one
>device on the other end of the cable it only sends the information that is
>requested of it. So, consider this situation. If you have one GPS 35 and
>you connect it to the Trutrak and also the GTX 327. The GTX 327 may only
>request Lat/Lon information and never ask for any of the other data that
>the unit makes available, but the Trutrak wants to also request position
>error data for example. What could happen is the Trutrack would send a
>command to the GPS requesting a position error message and the GPS promptly
>replies. The GTX 327 is connected to the same wire and gets the position
>error message same as the Trutrak but one of two things will happen. The
>design engineer for the GTX 327 assumed that this would always be a
>point-to-point connection and that all messages are for him only and would
>attempt to decipher the "position error" message as Lat/Lon. It would
>either get confused and declare an error, or worse, it would somehow
>convince itself that the data string is a Lat/Lon and treat it as
>such. Now everything is hosed.
>
>Now, onto your original question, GPS antenna signals should be able to be
>split and shared between GPS receivers but the signal is not real
>strong. It dissipates over long cable runs and should be carefully managed
>when adding additional loads to it such as making it drive two GPS's. You
>can purchase GPS amplifiers for long cable runs or just to boost the signal
>but you need to know what your doing because if you don't need to boost the
>signal that much and you give the GPS receiver too much signal that will
>cause signal distortion. A reduction in signal power to the GPS receiver
>will usually result in a difficultly for the receiver to detect and acquire
>as many satellites. This increases position error and can cause signal
>loss conditions more often.
>Sorry for the long dissertation. I am in a similar situation, with a GPS
>35 driving my CFS EFIS-2000 and needing (but not wanting) a second GPS 35
>to drive my Anywhere map PDA system as a backup.
>
>good luck,
>
>scot
>
>
>At 10:02 PM 4/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve J Hurlbut"
> ><sjhdcl@kingston.net>
> >
> >Can a GPS antenna feed more than 1 GPS device?
> >
> >Trutrak Flight Systems says no, Garmin says yes.
> >
> >Which is it and anybody have experience doing this?
> >
> >Specically I want to feed GPS signal to my Digitrak autopilot and GTX 327
> >transponder.
> >I have a GPS 35 receiver as recommended by Trutrak Flight Systems.
> >
> >Steve
> >Rv7A
> >Wiring
> >
> >
>
>
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>AAAAAAAeACmACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgAqgAggBgAAAAAA
>wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AK4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAAB
>AAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAASWQ
>
>
Message 21
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rv6tc" <rv6tc@earthlink.net>
If there is anyone with any electronics experience out there that is
familiar with Jim Weir's article this month, I could use a little help. HE
makes a warning circuit that has a tone that goes from high to low pitch. I
would like it to go from off to on. He says it's easy, you just have to
make a "comparator buffer amplifier". I guess "easy" is a relative term.
Anyway, if you have any idea how to do this, I would appreciate the help.
Thanks,
Keith Hughes
RV-6 finish
Denver CO.
Message 22
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:57 PM 4/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
>
>Bob Will a single 17 AH RG battery start a contintenental IO550
>consistently?
> If so couldnt Z-14 be used as two independent electrical systems
> one
>for starting the other for consistent voltage to FADEC.
Yes, it will . . . and what you propose would
work.
Bob . . .
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: DRE-244e Intercom wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:12 PM 4/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach"
><phil@petrasoft.net>
>
>I bought a DRE-244e Intercom off of Ebay and it came without any wiring
>diagrams. If anybody has one of these units could I get wiring diagram or a
>pinout description? Thanks.
That one's not in my list of installation drawings.
Try contacting the manufacturer. The webpage for
your intercom is at:
http://www.drecomm.com/244eproduct.htm
Their customer service department can be
e-mailed at:
mailto:cs@drecomm.com
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 24
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| Subject: | RE: E.I. instruments need pampering? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:31 PM 4/7/2003 -0700, <Sales@Buy-Ei.com> wrote:
>We would like to respond to your questions of Friday-
>
>1). DO-160 Section 17 (Voltage Spike Testing) requires a +78 volt to a -22
>volt intermittent transient test for a 28 volt system and a +39 volt to a
>-11 volt test for a 12 volt system each with 50 ohm output impedance. In
>our opinion this test is not stringent enough for an instrument to survive
>on the main bus during an engine start on most aircraft.
Please cite the basis for this opinion. What is the amplitude,
waveform and duration of any transients you have observed and
> . . . . . All of our
>instruments can survive transients that are well over the DO-160
>requirement.
2). It is our understanding the industry standard for most electronic
>aircraft instrument installation is to install on an avionics or radio bus.
>We just installed an Apollo GX-60, SL-30, ACU, MX-20, SL-15, Garmin GTX 327,
>550/20 encoder, NSD-360 H.S.I. and many other pieces of equipment, and the
>install documentation made it clear that these instruments should be
>installed on the radio or avionics bus (isolating them from the starting
>sequence).
It is indeed a "practice" originally promulgated by the notion
that the root cause of lots of dead transistors at Cessna
and elsewhere was "spikes" from the starter. This was the
early days of low voltage, germanium transistors that
were showing up in audio and power supply circuits in the
current crop of aircraft radios. I cannot attest to studies done
elsewhere but at Cessna, there were NO actual spikes captured,
quantified and deemed antagonistic to our radios. When we
added the avionics master, the problems mostly went away
so the "practice" was called a success and we drove happily
onward.
Nearly 40 years later some folks assume that the "practice"
is now a "standard" and that the standard has some foundation
in real physics for its existence. I've been designing electronics
for aircraft for nearly 40 years and not once have I identified
any transients on the bus that reside outside the DO-160
test envelope. Therefore, I've not perceived a need to
have my customers protect my products with anything like
an "avionics bus".
>3). Our definition of a sophisticated circuit (when referring to power
>supplies), is one that would require fly back transformers to drive plasma
>displays or TFT backlights, one that uses floating step-up power to allow
>top side differential measurement, and high efficiency and charge pump
>units.
>
>4). We know that our instruments can handle input voltage spikes in excess
>of +/- 250 volts and over 400 microseconds AC input impedance. This is
>approximately 100 times the energy limitation of DO-160 and much better than
>other aviation equipment that we have tested.
>We feel that the industry needs published data on the voltage spikes
>produced during the start sequence for normal aircraft, worst case normal,
>abnormal and worst case abnormal. Most manufacturers have solved the
>uncertainty by going to a radio or avionics bus that is switched off during
>engine start.
If such stresses exist in the course of operating an
airplane, I could not agree more. I would have assumed that EI
has studied and quantified the problem and made an
engineering judgment as to whether or not their products
could/should be designed to withstand the worst case or
powered instead from a "protected" bus.
>We have been producing TSO'd equipment for over 20 years that can survive
>the somewhat hostile aircraft electrical environment, but would prefer that
>the UBG-16 be operated from a source that is protected from the starting
>sequence.
>
>We are always open to suggestions and new ideas. Thank you for your input.
>David Campbell
>Electronics International Inc.
>63296 Powell Butte Highway
>Bend, OR 97701
>Phone: (541) 318-6060
>Fax: (541) 318-7575
>Web: www.Buy-Ei.com
Perhaps I can suggest this. Take a scope and go look
at the output from the cigar lighter on a car. Set up to
+ slope trigger at say, 20 volts and then crank the engine.
My Tektronix 220 could not capture a single transient at
ANY horizontal resolution. Tried triggering on - slope
at zero volts. Same result. I'd say my GMC van is roughly
equal to C-150 for cranking currents and DC system impedance.
This is typical of what I've captured on a number of
airplanes ranging from C-150 to Beechjets over the past
25 years measured with all manner of scopes, chart
recorders and high speed (8,000 samples/second)
data acquisition systems.
Where am I going wrong? Where did the hundreds
who have participated in the crafting and maintenance
of DO-160 over the past two decades go astray?
Bob . . .
(-----------------------------------------)
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( -C. F. Kettering )
(-----------------------------------------)
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Warning circuit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:05 PM 4/7/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rv6tc" <rv6tc@earthlink.net>
>
>If there is anyone with any electronics experience out there that is
>familiar with Jim Weir's article this month, I could use a little help. HE
>makes a warning circuit that has a tone that goes from high to low pitch. I
>would like it to go from off to on. He says it's easy, you just have to
>make a "comparator buffer amplifier". I guess "easy" is a relative term.
>Anyway, if you have any idea how to do this, I would appreciate the help.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Keith Hughes
Need more input. What's the circuit do for you
and how would you like for it to do different?
Can you scan and email the article?
Bob . . .
Message 26
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| Subject: | Must strobe feed wires be shielded? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@globaleyes.net>
Must strobe feed wires be shielded? I am cobbling together a strobe system,
using Whelen lights and I intend to buy one of those power supplies from
strobes-r-us.com. I wish to mount the PS somewhere in the center section.
Can I just run regular 18AWG wire from the PS to the wing tips?
Thanks.
Sam Hoskins
Quickie Q-200
Web site: http://home.globaleyes.net/shoskins/page1.htm
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Warning circuit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rv6tc" <rv6tc@earthlink.net>
I'll see if I can get it scanned and send it to you guys.
Thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Warning circuit
>
> Need more input. What's the circuit do for you
> and how would you like for it to do different?
> Can you scan and email the article?
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Must strobe feed wires be shielded? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:11 PM 4/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins"
><shoskins@globaleyes.net>
>
>Must strobe feed wires be shielded? I am cobbling together a strobe system,
>using Whelen lights and I intend to buy one of those power supplies from
>strobes-r-us.com. I wish to mount the PS somewhere in the center section.
>
>Can I just run regular 18AWG wire from the PS to the wing tips?
These wired DO carry fast-risetime voltage and current pulses
that are worthy of shields and the twisted-trio configuration
supplied with a contemporary strobe installation kit.
Why would you NOT want to shield it? The wire isn't expensive.
But then, you could give it a try. The outcome cannot be anything
worse than having to replace the wire later.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Must strobe feed wires be shielded? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@globaleyes.net>
Thanks for the prompt reply, Bob.
The problem is, I'm running wire for the strobe and the position lights
through a narrow (3/8" I.D.?) piece of tubing that runs down through my
composite wing. I installed this tube 15 years ago when I built the wing
and there is no practical way to enlarge it. I hope to squeeze all the
wires through this opening. My reasoning is that I could run 5 pieces of
18AWG more easily than a cable and the two for the position lights.
Sam
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Must strobe feed wires be shielded?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 09:11 PM 4/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins"
> ><shoskins@globaleyes.net>
> >
> >Must strobe feed wires be shielded? I am cobbling together a strobe
system,
> >using Whelen lights and I intend to buy one of those power supplies from
> >strobes-r-us.com. I wish to mount the PS somewhere in the center
section.
> >
> >Can I just run regular 18AWG wire from the PS to the wing tips?
>
>
> These wired DO carry fast-risetime voltage and current pulses
> that are worthy of shields and the twisted-trio configuration
> supplied with a contemporary strobe installation kit.
>
> Why would you NOT want to shield it? The wire isn't expensive.
> But then, you could give it a try. The outcome cannot be anything
> worse than having to replace the wire later.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Must strobe feed wires be shielded? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:14 PM 4/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins"
><shoskins@globaleyes.net>
>
>Thanks for the prompt reply, Bob.
>
>The problem is, I'm running wire for the strobe and the position lights
>through a narrow (3/8" I.D.?) piece of tubing that runs down through my
>composite wing. I installed this tube 15 years ago when I built the wing
>and there is no practical way to enlarge it. I hope to squeeze all the
>wires through this opening. My reasoning is that I could run 5 pieces of
>18AWG more easily than a cable and the two for the position lights.
>
>Sam
Understand . . . no magic wands I can wave here
and make it okay and I've never had the chance
to try it myself. You're charting new territory.
Hope it works okay.
Bob . . .
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Standby Battery Charging |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:11 PM 4/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Barton Guderian
><bguderia@rconnect.com>
>
>Hello Group:
>
>I am new to group and am so glad to have found it as I am "knowlege
>challenged" when it comes to electrical theory and application but can
>apply solutions with some competence.
<snip>
>My question is this. What is the best method to keep the standby
>battery properly charged from the main battery and what should I have in
>line to best accomplish this task.
>
>If I have not included enough info for an answer please contact me at
>my e-mail address.
Bart, the easiest way to add a second battery of ANY
size is illustrated in Figure Z-30 of the 'Connection
which you can download at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev10/z10.pdf
you might also find this article useful . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bat_iso2.pdf
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: LED post lights for instrument lighting? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
Here is another source of 12V LED's that may be used for instrument
ilumination
http://www.visibolts.com/sys-tmpl/door/
Message 33
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| Subject: | Z-14 Interface with FADEC |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tom Schiff" <tomschiff@attbi.com>
I recently read a article in a Motorcycle magazine that related the
troubleshooting of a Honda Gold Wing 1800 (a recent model). The owner
was on a long cross country trip and stopped for lunch. When he returned
the starter would spin the motor but it wouldn't start. Two Honda
dealerships, much conferring with Honda, and many thousands of dollars
of troubleshooting later the bike would still not start. The editor of
the magazine was called in to see if he could help. I brought a new
battery with him and a volt meter. He determined that when the starter
was cranking the original battery voltage would drop below 10 volts. He
installed the new battery and the bike roared to life. Is this what the
FADEC's are going to bring to the aviation world?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-14 Interface with FADEC
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:43 PM 4/5/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder
><jschroeder@perigee.net>
>
>Bob -
>
>Just returned from Sun N Fun and some conversations wi/ the Velocity
folks
>and
>the Aerosance (FADEC) folks. In a dual battery aircraft with 2 x 17AH
>batteries
>ganged for start, the FADEC will brown out and the engine will not
start
>reliably.
>
>Question: I know that you were looking into a solution to this and
wonder
>if it
>has been completed.
I won't belabor my disappointment that folks who
sell products claimed to be suited for use in airplanes
won't work in an airplane because of dumb reasons that
require users to accommodate the shortcoming . . .
If it were my airplane, I'd build a little voltage booster
illustrated in http://216.55.140.222/temp/Fadec_Boost.gif
This is a Royer oscillator diagram . . . VERY popular in
50's through 70's as high voltage power supplies in vehicular
powered systems. This push-pull power oscillator has a
primary winding suited to an 8-12v input. The secondary winding
is scaled to give you something on the order of 4 volts output
at 12v input.
Under normal operations, a 12 to 14.6 volt bus supply to the
FADEC goes through the transformer secondary and diode
rectifier with a nominal, but acceptable voltage drop. When
you hit the starter button, the power supply is energized and
it boosts the battery voltage by about 4V at 12V dropping to
2.7V at 8V in. This voltage is ADDED to the sagging battery
voltage during cranking only and makes sure the FADEC sees
10.5 volts or better during cranking.
>We are installing the Z-14 system and have one channel of the FADEC on
each
>battery bus. Thus when we crossfeed for starting, we risk the brownout.
One
>solution Aerosance recommends is to install a larger battery on the 60
amp
>alternator circuit. A 35 AH battery would work as we would then not
have to
>crossfeed for start and the FADEC would get full voltage from the 17AH
>battery
>on the 20 amp alternator circuit. The downside of this is more weight
and we
>would lose the battery rotation system you recommend.
>
>Question: Could we put 2 17's in parallel for the large battery? Any
risks in
>this approach besides adding parts count? We would then have a 3 year
>rotation
>cycle of 17 AH batteries.
You can certainly do that too . . . but the extra 17 pounds
of battery, contactor and wiring seems like a hell of a penalty
to pay to add super-whizzy technology to your engine that's
never going to re-coupe additional costs by any savings
of fuel (does this system let you run cheap plugs?).
The Royer box would be about 2 x 3 x 5 inches and
weigh about a pound.
Bob . . .
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