Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:39 AM - howto for units using less then 12V (Werner Schneider)
2. 05:22 AM - Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System (Stucklen, Frederic IFC)
3. 05:28 AM - howto for units using less then 12V (Stucklen, Frederic IFC)
4. 05:46 AM - Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System (Ken Simmons)
5. 06:28 AM - GNS 430 AND GTX 327 TALK (BAKEROCB@aol.com)
6. 06:40 AM - Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System (John Schroeder)
7. 06:44 AM - Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System (sjhdcl@kingston.net)
8. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: E.I. instruments need pampering? (Paul Messinger)
9. 07:27 AM - Re: E.I. instruments need pampering? (Jim Ziegler)
10. 08:29 AM - Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System (Ken Simmons)
11. 09:47 AM - Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System (Aucountry@aol.com)
12. 10:09 AM - Re: Must strobe feed wires be shielded? (Shannon Knoepflein)
13. 10:12 AM - Re: Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System (John Schroeder)
14. 10:38 AM - Re: Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring (richard@riley.net)
15. 10:39 AM - Re: Must strobe feed wires be shielded? (BobsV35B@aol.com)
16. 11:59 AM - Re: Must strobe feed wires be shielded? (Shannon Knoepflein)
17. 12:49 PM - Re: LED post lights for instrument lighting? (Dennis Golden)
18. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System (Dan Checkoway)
19. 01:24 PM - Re: Must strobe feed wires be shielded? (Richard Tasker)
20. 03:10 PM - Re: Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System (John Schroeder)
21. 04:07 PM - Re: Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring (richard@riley.net)
22. 06:02 PM - Stainless steel firewall fitting for wires (David Carter)
23. 07:56 PM - Battery Box (William Bernard)
24. 07:58 PM - Dual E.I. bus configuration (Geoff Evans)
25. 08:04 PM - Re: howto for units using less then 12V (Charlie & Tupper England)
26. 09:15 PM - Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System (BobsV35B@aol.com)
27. 09:16 PM - Re: howto for units using less then 12V (Richard E. Tasker)
28. 09:52 PM - Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System (richard@riley.net)
Message 1
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| Subject: | howto for units using less then 12V |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
Dear all,
I'm building several "handheld" gadgets in my plane, I'm using Bob's pwr
filter, to protect this gadgets from power spikes (if they realy happen).
Now several of them are using only 5V, or 6V. What is the best way to
transform the board-voltage of 12-14V down to a stabilised 5 to 6V, can I
integrate such thing into the pwr filter design?.
Many thanks for your help
Werner
Message 2
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| Subject: | Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com>
Listers,
I looked at this system several years ago when it was first introduced. In
my opinion, except
for the convenience of swapping similar radio systems in the future, it
doesn't add much value
to the overall stack wiring. And even then, it confines you to the limits
of the their original
wiring solutions for your original radios. (I.E., future radios may require
more interconnections..)
The conventional approach of defining a wire bundle between radios
certainly offers more
flexibility in future updates.
There seems to be a level of hesitation to wire ones own radio stack.
There shouldn't be.
Like building the plane itself, it's just another discipline that you will
learn how to perform.
It's part of the learning experience that goes along with building.
Pick out your dream stack, then work with someone with experienced to
develop the schematics.
Then wire that stack on the bench. If you don't have the proper tools, see
if you can borrow them.
If that's not possible, then contract out to have just the stack wired. It's
then easy for you to
complete the installation into your aircraft.
I've posted an example of this process at
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com.01.19.200
3/
If you have overcome your fears of building an aircraft, you certainly can
overcome the
fears of wiring up the radios....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV Reserved
RV-6A N925RV 2008 Wonderful hours of flying!
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DeWitt (Dee) Whittington"
Just got back from Sun 'n Fun. There I attended a forum presented by
Approach Systems who claim to have a product that will let you "Wire an
avionics stack in LESS THAN 3 hours with Fast Stack.".
The packed tent heard about a system that's been on the market since
Oshkosh 2002. This company makes a "hub" consisting of 8 layers of PC
boards and custom built connecting cables to provide all the interconnect
wiring for your avionics stack. You tell them what particular avionics
items you have in your panel and how long the cables must be. However,
they leave it up to you to connect buss power, ground, lighting and
antennas as well as mount the avionics boxes in the panel.
They suggest that it will save hours of build time and debugging,
especially for the segment of the homebuilding public who dread
wiring their avionics stack. Approach Systems also claims that their
system makes it easy to change or add boxes in the future to your
stack. Some of their systems have been put in certified aircraft with 337s.
On initial hearing, seemed like these folks may have something. If you
haven't heard about them, check out their web site, www.approach-systems.com
Any comments from someone who has bought one of their systems or have heard
their presentation?
DeWitt Whittington A&P
406 N Mulberry St
Richmond, VA 23220
(804) 358-4333 phone and fax
dewittw@earthlink.net
<mailto:dewittw@earthlink.net?subject=Re:%20Approach-Systems%20Avionics%20Wi
ring%20System&replyto=200304090326.h393Q4P12371@matronics.com>
Message 3
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| Subject: | howto for units using less then 12V |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com>
Werner,
It really depends on the power needed for those devices. Low
power devices could use a simple linear regulator, much like
Bob's adjustable output light dimmer circuit, but with a fixed
output. Higher power devices might require a switching type
converter. Both approaches should inherently offer spike
filtering.
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV Reserved
N925RV 2008 wonderful hours of flying!
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider"
Dear all,
I'm building several "handheld" gadgets in my plane, I'm
using Bob's pwr
filter, to protect this gadgets from power spikes (if they
realy happen).
Now several of them are using only 5V, or 6V. What is the
best way to
transform the board-voltage of 12-14V down to a stabilised 5
to 6V, can I
integrate such thing into the pwr filter design?.
Many thanks for your help
Werner
Message 4
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| Subject: | Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
I heard their presentation at an EAA Chapter meeting. I was very skeptical
at first after spending 20 years working on nuclear reactor instrumentation
in the Navy. After listening to their presentation, however, I wound up
buying one of the hubs and a cable for an intercom (it's the only "avionics"
piece I have so far). I haven't wired them up yet, but the quality is
excellent. Additionally, one of the wires (PTT) on the intercom cable wasn't
long enough to reach the back seat of the RV8 I'm building so they fixed the
cable and paid shipping both ways. The reason I went ahead and purchased now
was that they were offering a 10% discount if you purchased within a certain
time of the presentation at the meeting. This is supposed to be a forever
10% discount not a one time thing. We'll see if that's true when I need to
purchase additional cables. They will also take the hubs and standard
stocked cables back as a trade-in when you change your avionics.
Ken
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DeWitt (Dee)
> Whittington" <dewittw@earthlink.net>
>
> Just got back from Sun 'n Fun. There I attended a forum presented by
> Approach Systems who claim to have a product that will let you "Wire an
> avionics stack in LESS THAN 3 hours with Fast Stack.".
>
> The packed tent heard about a system that's been on the market since
> Oshkosh 2002. This company makes a "hub" consisting of 8 layers of PC
> boards and custom built connecting cables to provide all the interconnect
> wiring for your avionics stack. You tell them what particular avionics
> items you have in your panel and how long the cables must be. However,
> they leave it up to you to connect buss power, ground, lighting and
> antennas as well as mount the avionics boxes in the panel.
>
> They suggest that it will save hours of build time and debugging,
> especially for the segment of the homebuilding public who dread
> wiring their avionics stack. Approach Systems also claims that their
> system makes it easy to change or add boxes in the future to your
> stack. Some of their systems have been put in certified aircraft
> with 337s.
>
> On initial hearing, seemed like these folks may have something. If you
> haven't heard about them, check out their web site,
> www.approach-systems.com
>
> Any comments from someone who has bought one of their systems or
> have heard
> their presentation?
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | GNS 430 AND GTX 327 TALK |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BAKEROCB@aol.com
4/8/2003
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Alex Peterson"
<alexpeterson@usjet.net>
<<......skip...... Having done this in my plane, I can tell you the links.
First, the 430
sends a serial data stream to the 327 which, among other things, tells
the 327 when the ground speed is above 40 knots. This signal can be
used to switch the transponder from standby to altitude and vice versa,
a nice feature. It is a remarkably common thing to hear ATC asking a
pilot who just took off to switch his transponder on. The 327 sends
back a serial data stream to the 430 which includes the altitude
information the transponder is receiving from the altitude encoder. The
430 uses this data to refine/compare the altitude data gathered from the
GPS receiver in some fashion. I can't tell you exactly how the 430 uses
the altitude data, but it does inform me if I turn off the transponder
with a message like "not receiving altitude information". Possibly, it
will inform one of differences greater than some amount between the two
altitude systems, I don't know. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN>>
4/8/2003
Hello Alex, I also have a GNS 430 and GTX 327 in my panel (not yet flown).
Panel was built by a professional and I have the pin out / wiring diagrams,
but cannot figure out what is going on between the two boxes.
Can you please tell me the pins on both boxes that would be sending any
altitude or airspeed between them -- either direction? Many thanks.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Hi DeWitt -
We have been looking at avionics and were very impressed with the Approach
Sytems box. We did not attend their briefing, but have talked them at OSH and
Sun N Fun. We have also been getting quotes from various avionics houses, like
Pacific Coast, for an avionics stack. For Garmin's stuff, you have to have the
dealer provide the harness for the stack and for our proposed stack, this is
between 450 and 600 dollars. UPS is now requiring the same if you install one of
their new CNX-80's. With a dealer's harness, we also would have to wire up the
power and antennae. When we compare this to the cost of an Approach IFR box and
cabling for the same stack, they come out significantly more expensive.
Pros & Cons:
1. Flexibility for the future to change out a piece of avionics. However, I
believe their buss is hardwired (vice software controlled), so it could become
outdated as hardware avionics take their usual leap forward every 3-4 years.
2. I am still unclear about how they handle the interface between an autopilot
and the stack. If you have a harness made by a dealer, they will provide the
output/input for such pieces of equipment.
Keep us posted on your research.
Thanks,
John
>Just got back from Sun 'n Fun. There I attended a forum presented by
>Approach Systems who claim to have a product that will let you "Wire an
>avionics stack in LESS THAN 3 hours with Fast Stack.".
Message 7
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| Subject: | Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sjhdcl@kingston.net
I have the Pro-G wiring package from Approach systems with intercom,
transponder, radio, and encoder connected to it.
It really is a nice system that allows fast connection of the avionics stack.
The hub is very well made (looks good too) and takes care of all
interconnections between units. As well, all grounding of shielded wires is
taken care of as well. I found the unit a bit expensive to start ($880 for the
hub and cables from $79 to $150) but I will use this system again on my next
plane.
The biggest advantage is future update of the instrument panel. Say you want to
change radios or add a GPS. You install the unit in the panel (the longest
part) connect the cable to the hub, connet power and ground (and a few others
if required) and you're done.
While wiring the radio to the intercom, or transponder to the encoder is not
too difficult, the Appoarch Systems hub makes it so simple and professional
looking.
Plus the guys who work there have been very helpful in providing me with all
the information to make my decision and how everything works.
Highly recommended,
Steve
RV7A
Quoting Ken Simmons <ken@truckstop.com>:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
>
> I heard their presentation at an EAA Chapter meeting. I was very skeptical
> at first after spending 20 years working on nuclear reactor instrumentation
> in the Navy. After listening to their presentation, however, I wound up
> buying one of the hubs and a cable for an intercom (it's the only
> "avionics"
> piece I have so far). I haven't wired them up yet, but the quality is
> excellent. Additionally, one of the wires (PTT) on the intercom cable
> wasn't
> long enough to reach the back seat of the RV8 I'm building so they fixed
> the
> cable and paid shipping both ways. The reason I went ahead and purchased
> now
> was that they were offering a 10% discount if you purchased within a
> certain
> time of the presentation at the meeting. This is supposed to be a forever
> 10% discount not a one time thing. We'll see if that's true when I need to
> purchase additional cables. They will also take the hubs and standard
> stocked cables back as a trade-in when you change your avionics.
>
> Ken
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DeWitt (Dee)
> > Whittington" <dewittw@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Just got back from Sun 'n Fun. There I attended a forum presented by
> > Approach Systems who claim to have a product that will let you "Wire an
> > avionics stack in LESS THAN 3 hours with Fast Stack.".
> >
> > The packed tent heard about a system that's been on the market since
> > Oshkosh 2002. This company makes a "hub" consisting of 8 layers of PC
> > boards and custom built connecting cables to provide all the interconnect
> > wiring for your avionics stack. You tell them what particular avionics
> > items you have in your panel and how long the cables must be. However,
> > they leave it up to you to connect buss power, ground, lighting and
> > antennas as well as mount the avionics boxes in the panel.
> >
> > They suggest that it will save hours of build time and debugging,
> > especially for the segment of the homebuilding public who dread
> > wiring their avionics stack. Approach Systems also claims that their
> > system makes it easy to change or add boxes in the future to your
> > stack. Some of their systems have been put in certified aircraft
> > with 337s.
> >
> > On initial hearing, seemed like these folks may have something. If you
> > haven't heard about them, check out their web site,
> > www.approach-systems.com
> >
> > Any comments from someone who has bought one of their systems or
> > have heard
> > their presentation?
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RE: E.I. instruments need pampering? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@tenforward.com>
Agreed. But that does not alter my reply to his question as there is sort of
an avionics master switch for the radios etc. After all, Ford etc does not
want to get the rep of causing aftermarket electronics to fail simply
because that equipment is "poorly designed". And who knows, perhaps today's
aftermarket radios may be internally protected and there is no need for the
aux buss in autos.
However, they ALL also have transient protection either built in or on the
supply lines for designed in electronics that must be on all the time (as
far as I have been able to tell). At least every electronic part since (or
perhaps even before) the GM HEI Ign system was used has had effective
transient protection.
The real issue is what does one do on an aircraft with electrical equipment
that is not designed to meet the latest requirements.
I have avionics etc that were designed before the latest requirements and to
suggest I not use them because the mfgr may have failed to follow the latest
rules seems foolish to me. I feel one must recognize the real world of those
who cannot afford the very latest and/or boycott those with less than
perfect designs.
Thus if E.I. suggests some "pampering" the decision to me is go along and
"pamper it" or go elsewhere.
As long as I know what the mfgr requirements are and how to design to meet
then I am happy. By adding a few transorbs to my design I have taken care of
any potential damage from transients that may or may not exist that may or
may not cause damage to equipment that may or may not meet the latest
requirements.
I simply add a transorb on the output of my CB to ground and forget it. That
way downstream any equipment changes are protected and its very inexpensive.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert McCallum" <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: E.I. instruments need pampering?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert McCallum
<robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
>
> Paul Messinger wrote:
>
> > >
> > > What about the billions of cars on the road today WITHOUT an avionics
> > > SWITCH ? Do they not have any electronics on board?
> > >
> > > Rino
> >
> > In a way as the ign switch turns off the radios etc. during the starting
> > process.
> >
> > Paul
>
> The vast majority of electronics in modern cars have nothing to do with
radios or anything else on
> the accessory buss. The electronics for the most part reside in the
plethora of computers which
> control everything from engine management, to door locks, to air bags,
NONE of which are off during
> engine start. (And ALL of which presumably continue working quitehappily)
> --
> Bob McC
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | RE: E.I. instruments need pampering? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Ziegler <jcz@espllc.com>
Bob:
You clearly have a great deal of practical experience in designing
electric/electronic equipment to meet not only the requirements of
DO-160, but also your own additional requirements (e.g. lightning) based
on your experience.
I would like to request (urge, beg?) you to share this knowledge with
those of us who would like to try our hand at doing some of our own
design work. For example, practical tips on power filtering and
conditioning, including suggested parts and/or rules for part selection,
rules for protecting various types of inputs and outputs, e.g.
thermocouple, digital, high and low level analog, etc.
I think this would make a great paper to add to your website, and
perhaps a revenue source, like your existing aeroelectric notebook. I
for one would be willing to purchase same.
If such a resource already exists, please point me to it.
Thanks.
jcz@espllc.com (Jim Ziegler)
--
jcz@espllc.com (Jim Ziegler)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
This reminded me of another thing I left out of my previous reply. I
believe Garmin requires installation by an approved shop for a valid
warranty. According to Approach Systems (they have documents to verify
this), you can do your own install of Garmin products and retain the
warranty if you use Approach Systems' hub/cable system.
Ken
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder
<jschroeder@perigee.net>
---snip---
For Garmin's stuff, you have to have the dealer provide the harness for
the stack and for our proposed stack, this is between 450 and 600
dollars.
---snip---
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
In a message dated 04/09/03 05:23:08 AM, Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com
writes:
> Pick out your dream stack, then work with someone with experienced to
> develop the schematics. Then wire that stack on the bench. If you don't
> have the proper tools, see if you can borrow them. If that's not possible,
> then contract out to have just the stack wired. It's then easy for you to
> complete the installation into your aircraft.
>
How is this different from contracting Approach Systems to 'Pre-Wire" the
avionics stack? If you change it down the road (which is very unlikely in
the near term, say 10-15 years), have Approach Systems mod the
interconnections.
Certainly is a lot simplier than having 4 or 5 unwanted sets of wiring under
your panel which NO-One can follow.
There is no way to describe what it's like to try and sort out an avionics
gremlin only to find there are 8 (EIGHT) sets of com installations, complete
with 8 different coax-cables which are dead-ended on both ends and still
wrapped so tight in a wire bundle that you can't move anything without taking
it all apart and starting over.
Gary
3 weeks and counting into fixing the wiring in an AA1C
Message 12
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| Subject: | Must strobe feed wires be shielded? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann@kyol.net>
Hey Old Bob,
So, if I understand you correctly, the power supplies are in the
wingtips next to the strobes? That means that the #22 wire you are
running to the strobes that we discussed earlier is actually just the
24VDC power feed to the power supplies?
If that's true, that throws a wrench in my plans/thoughts. I though the
#22 wire you ran was from the power supply to the strobes, the shielded
wire that is usually 18-3 from Whelen. From what it sounds now, if I
understand correct, the #22 is actually just your power feed. At 24V,
#22 will easily feed the 3-4 amps the power supplies need.
The 34J is an amount of energy. A Joule is a Watt-second, or could be
similarily shown as a kilowatt-hour as in our homes. If your supplies
deliver 34J in 0.002 seconds, that works out to be 34/0.002, or 17000
Watts of power. Divide the power by the Voltage, in this case Whelen
specifies about 500-600V from the power supplies to the strobes, and
that works out to have a peak current of about 34A. Make sense?
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B@aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Must strobe feed wires be shielded?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 4/8/03 9:49:11 AM Central Daylight Time,
kycshann@kyol.net
writes:
> Which power supply do you have and do you know the amount of energy it
> puts out per flash? Thanks for the help.
>
Good Evening Shannon,
I have the Whelen A490A power supplies. One on the tail and one in each
wing
tip. They are connected with a trigger wire so that they flash
together.
The ad in the Aircraft Spruce catalog says that it produces an
accumulated 34
joules of energy. Any idea what that means?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Another point that Approach makes is that they are a dealer for UPS and their
cabling/buss is acceptable to UPS regarding the installation of the CNX-80.
However, I believe that you still pay a premium for the Approach system for
either Garmin or UPS stacks. If I'm wrong, I'd sure like to know. It is a very
nice system.
Cheers,
John
>This reminded me of another thing I left out of my previous reply. I
>believe Garmin requires installation by an approved shop for a valid
>warranty. According to Approach Systems (they have documents to verify
>this), you can do your own install of Garmin products and retain the
>warranty if you use Approach Systems' hub/cable system.
>
>Ken
>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder
><jschroeder@perigee.net>
>
>---snip---
>
>For Garmin's stuff, you have to have the dealer provide the harness for
>the stack and for our proposed stack, this is between 450 and 600
>dollars.
>
>---snip---
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring |
System
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
I looked at the Approach system for my panel, it was $1500. Then I talked
to John Stark at Stark Avionics, http://www.mindspring.com/~jts7/index.htm
he'll do the same job for $400. I chose "B"
At 01:11 PM 4/9/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder
><jschroeder@perigee.net>
>
>Another point that Approach makes is that they are a dealer for UPS and their
>cabling/buss is acceptable to UPS regarding the installation of the CNX-80.
>However, I believe that you still pay a premium for the Approach system for
>either Garmin or UPS stacks. If I'm wrong, I'd sure like to know. It is a
>very
>nice system.
>
>Cheers,
>
>John
>
>
> >This reminded me of another thing I left out of my previous reply. I
> >believe Garmin requires installation by an approved shop for a valid
> >warranty. According to Approach Systems (they have documents to verify
> >this), you can do your own install of Garmin products and retain the
> >warranty if you use Approach Systems' hub/cable system.
> >
> >Ken
> >
> >
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder
> ><jschroeder@perigee.net>
> >
> >---snip---
> >
> >For Garmin's stuff, you have to have the dealer provide the harness for
> >the stack and for our proposed stack, this is between 450 and 600
> >dollars.
> >
> >---snip---
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Must strobe feed wires be shielded? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 4/9/03 12:09:32 PM Central Daylight Time,
kycshann@kyol.net writes:
> So, if I understand you correctly, the power supplies are in the
> wingtips next to the strobes? That means that the #22 wire you are
> running to the strobes that we discussed earlier is actually just the
> 24VDC power feed to the power supplies?
>
> If that's true, that throws a wrench in my plans/thoughts. I though the
> #22 wire you ran was from the power supply to the strobes, the shielded
> wire that is usually 18-3 from Whelen. From what it sounds now, if I
> understand correct, the #22 is actually just your power feed. At 24V,
> #22 will easily feed the 3-4 amps the power supplies need.
>
Good Morning Shannon,
No, the power supplies are in the wing about six inches inboard of the wing
tip fuel tanks. They are mounted on the front face of the spar. The strobe
lights are mounted within the space provided in the nose of the wing tip fuel
tanks for the running lights.
The # 22 wires run from the power supplies to the strobe lights through the
one quarter inch OD aluminum tubing that was installed by the manufacturer of
the tip tanks as a means of getting wiring to the running lights. Total run
from the power supply to the strobe is about three and a half feet.
The #22 wires replace the leads you describe. The directions from Whelen
suggested mounting the power supplies so as to provide for minimum length
runs of the high voltage wires. Mounting them in the outer portions of the
wings was one of their suggestions.
I have encountered absolutely no noise problem with my strobes.
Mine were very early production fiberglass wing tip fuel tanks. The
manufacturer went to a three-eighths of an inch tubing on his later fuel
tanks.
Did I do a better job of describing the installation this time?
Happy skies,
Old Bob
Message 16
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| Subject: | Must strobe feed wires be shielded? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann@kyol.net>
Yes, Bob, that makes it all clear. I guess my only concern now is that
my power supplies might put out a bit more energy (42J vs. 34J). Also,
my run is about 15 feet, whereas yours is only about 3. I'm still in
contact with Whelen on this topic.
Bob N, do you have anything else to add to this discussion? Are my
calculations anywhere close from my previous emails about this topic?
Am I missing something?
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B@aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Must strobe feed wires be shielded?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 4/9/03 12:09:32 PM Central Daylight Time,
kycshann@kyol.net writes:
> So, if I understand you correctly, the power supplies are in the
> wingtips next to the strobes? That means that the #22 wire you are
> running to the strobes that we discussed earlier is actually just the
> 24VDC power feed to the power supplies?
>
> If that's true, that throws a wrench in my plans/thoughts. I though
the
> #22 wire you ran was from the power supply to the strobes, the
shielded
> wire that is usually 18-3 from Whelen. From what it sounds now, if I
> understand correct, the #22 is actually just your power feed. At 24V,
> #22 will easily feed the 3-4 amps the power supplies need.
>
Good Morning Shannon,
No, the power supplies are in the wing about six inches inboard of the
wing
tip fuel tanks. They are mounted on the front face of the spar. The
strobe
lights are mounted within the space provided in the nose of the wing tip
fuel
tanks for the running lights.
The # 22 wires run from the power supplies to the strobe lights through
the
one quarter inch OD aluminum tubing that was installed by the
manufacturer of
the tip tanks as a means of getting wiring to the running lights. Total
run
from the power supply to the strobe is about three and a half feet.
The #22 wires replace the leads you describe. The directions from Whelen
suggested mounting the power supplies so as to provide for minimum
length
runs of the high voltage wires. Mounting them in the outer portions of
the
wings was one of their suggestions.
I have encountered absolutely no noise problem with my strobes.
Mine were very early production fiberglass wing tip fuel tanks. The
manufacturer went to a three-eighths of an inch tubing on his later fuel
tanks.
Did I do a better job of describing the installation this time?
Happy skies,
Old Bob
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: LED post lights for instrument lighting? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dennis Golden <dgolden@golden-consulting.com>
Dan Branstrom wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Branstrom"
> <swedan@pcmagic.net>
>
> For a possible emergency panel light, (or at least a great map
> reading light), I've discovered a great folding LED light, made by
> Energizer that lights up an area. It can be bought from Wal-Mart
> (Their SKU number is, I believe, 0968489) for about 9 dollars plus
> tax & less batteries. I was told about it by another pilot who is
> also a Boy Scout leader. The boys in his scout troop use them all
> the time.
Dan,
Is that the Energizer Folding LED? I didn't find anything with that SKU,
but I found the Energizer with UPC 39800 04553. You got my attention.
The first store didn't have it, but the second did. It really looks
interesting, but I haven't taken it apart yet (or used it at night).
Regards,
Dennis
--
Dennis Golden
Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> I looked at the Approach system for my panel, it was $1500. Then I talked
> to John Stark at Stark Avionics, http://www.mindspring.com/~jts7/index.htm
> he'll do the same job for $400. I chose "B"
Ditto. Stark's pre-wired, ready to go prices on a UPSAT stack were cheaper
than buying the radios alone from any other source.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (finish)
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Must strobe feed wires be shielded? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
The resistance of the wire you want to use (22 AWG) it is less than 0.02
ohms per foot. For a 15 foot length that gives you 0.3 ohms. If you
have a 500V supply supplying 42J in 2 mS that is 42A. Calculating out
the voltage drop due to this current gives you a drop of approximately
12V. This means that you are losing less than 3% of the energy in the
pulse (500V - 12V). If you do the same calculations with 18 AWG you
find you are losing about 1%. So the difference is 2% - not
significant. The total energy dissipation in the wire created by 42A
for 2mS is equivalent to an average current of 1.8A - well within the
rating of 22AWG wire.
So... Common sense and good engineering says this should work just fine
- especially of you have a problem fitting 18 AWG wire.
Dick Tasker
Shannon Knoepflein wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann@kyol.net>
>
>Yes, Bob, that makes it all clear. I guess my only concern now is that
>my power supplies might put out a bit more energy (42J vs. 34J). Also,
>my run is about 15 feet, whereas yours is only about 3. I'm still in
>contact with Whelen on this topic.
>
>Bob N, do you have anything else to add to this discussion? Are my
>calculations anywhere close from my previous emails about this topic?
>Am I missing something?
>
>---
>Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>BobsV35B@aol.com
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Must strobe feed wires be shielded?
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 4/9/03 12:09:32 PM Central Daylight Time,
>kycshann@kyol.net writes:
>
>
>
>>So, if I understand you correctly, the power supplies are in the
>>wingtips next to the strobes? That means that the #22 wire you are
>>running to the strobes that we discussed earlier is actually just the
>>24VDC power feed to the power supplies?
>>
>>If that's true, that throws a wrench in my plans/thoughts. I though
>>
>>
>the
>
>
>>#22 wire you ran was from the power supply to the strobes, the
>>
>>
>shielded
>
>
>>wire that is usually 18-3 from Whelen. From what it sounds now, if I
>>understand correct, the #22 is actually just your power feed. At 24V,
>>#22 will easily feed the 3-4 amps the power supplies need.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Good Morning Shannon,
>
>No, the power supplies are in the wing about six inches inboard of the
>wing
>tip fuel tanks. They are mounted on the front face of the spar. The
>strobe
>lights are mounted within the space provided in the nose of the wing tip
>fuel
>tanks for the running lights.
>
>The # 22 wires run from the power supplies to the strobe lights through
>the
>one quarter inch OD aluminum tubing that was installed by the
>manufacturer of
>the tip tanks as a means of getting wiring to the running lights. Total
>run
>from the power supply to the strobe is about three and a half feet.
>
>The #22 wires replace the leads you describe. The directions from Whelen
>
>suggested mounting the power supplies so as to provide for minimum
>length
>runs of the high voltage wires. Mounting them in the outer portions of
>the
>wings was one of their suggestions.
>
>I have encountered absolutely no noise problem with my strobes.
>
>Mine were very early production fiberglass wing tip fuel tanks. The
>manufacturer went to a three-eighths of an inch tubing on his later fuel
>
>tanks.
>
>Did I do a better job of describing the installation this time?
>
>Happy skies,
>
>Old Bob
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
We have a quote from John and we'll probably go with him. His quote for wiring
the stack is: $600 and that includes the new CNX-80.
John
>I looked at the Approach system for my panel, it was $1500. Then I talked
>to John Stark at Stark Avionics, http://www.mindspring.com/~jts7/index.htm
>he'll do the same job for $400. I chose "B"
>
>
>At 01:11 PM 4/9/03 -0400, you wrote:
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder
>><jschroeder@perigee.net>
>>
>>Another point that Approach makes is that they are a dealer for UPS and their
>>cabling/buss is acceptable to UPS regarding the installation of the CNX-80.
>>However, I believe that you still pay a premium for the Approach system for
>>either Garmin or UPS stacks. If I'm wrong, I'd sure like to know. It is a
>>very
>>nice system.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>John
>>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring |
System
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
At 06:09 PM 4/9/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder
><jschroeder@perigee.net>
>
>We have a quote from John and we'll probably go with him. His quote for
>wiring
>the stack is: $600 and that includes the new CNX-80.
That must be a heck of a stack, mine is Bluemountain, SL30, GX60, Microair
Txp, encoder, DRE-224e and that was only $400. $100 more for a psudo-audio
panel (which I thought was a little high for 4 toggle switches, I may do
that myself).
When I saw the hub I thought it was a great idea, but at that price
difference there's no way I can justify it.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Stainless steel firewall fitting for wires |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Bought my 1.25" X 18" stainless steel "grab bar" at Lowe's for $17.94 + tax.
- Was "made in Taiwan".
Returned the Franklin Brass brand to Home Depot because was "MADE IN CHINA" (my
wife bought it and didn't look).
David Carter
Message 23
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|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard" <billbernard@worldnet.att.net>
I have a question about the use of a battery box with a sealed lead acid battery
(RG Battery). I know that one is not really required with this type of battery,
but is any harm likely if one is used?
I built a fiberglass battery box some years ago, when I assumed that I would be
using a wet battery. The battery box mounts under the baggage compartment floor,
and the floor actually serves as the lid on the box. Do I need to re-design
the battery installation, or will what I have likely work?
Thanks in advance
BillB
Message 24
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| Subject: | Dual E.I. bus configuration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Geoff Evans <hellothaimassage@yahoo.com>
Bob.
In planning the electrical system for my RV-8, I was leaning heavily towards
using the Aerosance FADEC to control the engine. However, after reading of the
brownout problems during start, I'm now leaning towards dual Lightspeed
ignitions instead.
I'm planning a system based on drawing Z-13, with one battery and a backup SD-8
alternator.
With dual electronic ignitions, should I put both of them on the hot battery
bus? Or should I put one on the hot battery bus and one on the essential bus?
The only reason I can see for splitting them is to prevent engine failure in
the extremely remote chance that the short link between the battery and the hot
battery bus is compromised somehow.
Speaking of short links... the asterisk label in your drawings indicates wiring
lengths of 6" or less, with no protection for the wire. Is the assumption that
no fusible link is required if the wire run is kept very short? Why 6" as
opposed to any other number?
Thanks.
-Geoff
http://tax.yahoo.com
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: howto for units using less then 12V |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
Werner Schneider wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
>
>Dear all,
>
>I'm building several "handheld" gadgets in my plane, I'm using Bob's pwr
>filter, to protect this gadgets from power spikes (if they realy happen).
>Now several of them are using only 5V, or 6V. What is the best way to
>transform the board-voltage of 12-14V down to a stabilised 5 to 6V, can I
>integrate such thing into the pwr filter design?.
>
>Many thanks for your help
>
>Werner
>
The simplest way is to use a 3-terminal linear regulator preset for the
desired voltage.
Try a Google search on 'LM7805 regulator'. The '5' indicates a 5 volt
regulator.
http://www.iguanalabs.com/7805kit.htm
shows a good photo of the device. Remember that rated current requires a
heat sink.
Poke around the various sites hit by the Google search to get a feel for
what you need to do.
Most gadgets designed for 6 volts will work fine using a 5 volt regulator.
Charlie
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 4/9/03 6:08:07 PM Central Daylight Time, richard@riley.net
writes:
> When I saw the hub I thought it was a great idea, but at that price
> difference there's no way I can justify it.
>
>
Good Evening Richard and All,
Has anyone checked the weight difference? How about the extra space needed
to mount the hub?
Happy skies,
Old Bob
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: howto for units using less then 12V |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Or you could look for a LM7806 and get what you really need.for a six
volt device - a six volt source. All the other comments apply regarding
heat sink, etc.
Look at www.digikey.com (minimum order or $5.00 service charge) or
www.mouser.com (no minimum order). You can follow the links on these
sites for data sheets for the parts that show you how to use them.
Basically you will need the regulator, two capacitors and maybe a heat
sink (depending on the power output required).
Dick Tasker
Charlie & Tupper England wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
>
>Werner Schneider wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
>>
>>Dear all,
>>
>>I'm building several "handheld" gadgets in my plane, I'm using Bob's pwr
>>filter, to protect this gadgets from power spikes (if they realy happen).
>>Now several of them are using only 5V, or 6V. What is the best way to
>>transform the board-voltage of 12-14V down to a stabilised 5 to 6V, can I
>>integrate such thing into the pwr filter design?.
>>
>>Many thanks for your help
>>
>>Werner
>>
>>
>>
>The simplest way is to use a 3-terminal linear regulator preset for the
>desired voltage.
>
>Try a Google search on 'LM7805 regulator'. The '5' indicates a 5 volt
>regulator.
>
>http://www.iguanalabs.com/7805kit.htm
>
>shows a good photo of the device. Remember that rated current requires a
>heat sink.
>
>Poke around the various sites hit by the Google search to get a feel for
>what you need to do.
>Most gadgets designed for 6 volts will work fine using a 5 volt regulator.
>
>Charlie
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Approach-Systems Avionics Wiring System |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
At 12:14 AM 4/10/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 4/9/03 6:08:07 PM Central Daylight Time, richard@riley.net
>writes:
>
> > When I saw the hub I thought it was a great idea, but at that price
> > difference there's no way I can justify it.
> >
> >
>
>Good Evening Richard and All,
>
>Has anyone checked the weight difference? How about the extra space needed
>to mount the hub?
The hub is pretty small, and it can be well back behind the panel, but it
does weigh something. I'd guess the advantage (again) is for the live
wiring job but not by much. The advantage the hub has is ease of adding
new units to the system - but how often does that happen in a panel's lifetime?
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