Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:28 AM - Re: Rotax alternator output concern (Jim McManus)
2. 10:21 AM - ELT selection (Gary K)
3. 10:27 AM - Problem with strobe help (Fergus Kyle)
4. 11:27 AM - Re: ELT selection (Rob Housman)
5. 11:35 AM - Re: Power budget (James E. Clark)
6. 11:50 AM - Re: Problem with strobe help (Canyon)
7. 12:10 PM - Re: ELT selection (Maxime Gou)
8. 12:18 PM - Re: Problem with strobe help (Maxime Gou)
9. 01:23 PM - To be removed from this list (RSwanson)
10. 01:23 PM - Re: ELT selection (RSwanson)
11. 02:33 PM - Re: Problem with strobe help (capacitors going bad on shelf) (David Carter)
12. 03:10 PM - Re: Problem with strobe help (capacitors (Canyon)
13. 05:27 PM - Re: Problem with strobe help (capacitors going bad on shelf) (Cy Galley)
14. 05:59 PM - Re: Problem with strobe help (capacitors (Canyon)
15. 07:25 PM - Whelen caps (Byron & Jean)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax alternator output concern |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim McManus <jmcmanus@polarcom.com>
Thanks Gilles - I'd forgotten about the 914 fuel pump.
Any idea if that pump could be added to a 912 as a backup ?
Jim
Message 2
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary K" <flyink@efortress.com>
Hope this isn't too far off topic, I was ordering an ELT and got lost
comparing features. On three lower-end units from Spruce, there is one with
voice capability (AK-450), one that is satelite capable (ACK E-01), and one
that doesn't require an external antenna (EBC-102). I'm assuming each of
these features is mutually exclusive to each unit. There is also the remote
panel option on some of these. What is the satelite thing all about? Are
all rescue personnel able to get the satelite signal (is it worth getting)?
Any comments on any of these units? The AK-450 seems pretty popular and
that's what I was about to order but figured I'd try to learn more before
buying.
Thanks a bunch,
Gary (the last thing on my list to buy!) Krysztopik
Pelican PL w/subaru, 98% complete
Message 3
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| Subject: | Problem with strobe help |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
There you have it, thanks to Michel -
"And the more interesting part:
"If this is the case, it is recommended to start operating the system on a voltage
that is reduced by 25% for 10 to 15 minutes before putting the power supply
into normal service. This will prevent overheating of the condenser while they
reform. If the power supply, after a long period of non use, is
operated at full voltage immediately, there is an excellent possibility that the
condenser will become overheated."
The fact is that many condensers are 'paste' or similar material which
requires a voltage across it to keep it polarised. As this disappears, it
slowly loses its effectiveness. This is true of radios, strobes or any article
requiring a capacitor input. The traditional way to overcome inactivity for say
a year or moe is to apply the alternating current at a very low voltage and
slowly build it up to operating standard. If the 'paste' is still viable it will
come back to normal. If that fails, one needs to test the capacitor out of
the circuit and usually to replace it. Hams replace capacitors at regular intervals
in equipment that is older but valuable. The same is true of Whelens, or
any other condenser-driven circuits.
Only a salesman interested in a % will advise to 'buy another' without
offering an honest alternate first.
Happy landings
Ferg
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
If you are a member of AOPA check out this link in the AOPA Online Members
Only section: ELT, Phone Home
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/1997/elt9711.html
The last line in the article says everything you need to know..... "121.5
MHz ELTs are just about worthless," said NOAA's Lt. Mark Moran. "Just about
anything would be more effective." Not a very comforting thought. The
article explains the reasons in detail but essentially it says that the
121.5 MHz signals give locations that are rather imprecise, that the first
one of the seven search and rescue satellites in polar orbit may take up to
five hours to get within range, and that the ELT is most likely going to be
destroyed on impact. Unless you are willing to pay the much higher price
($2,800 versus less than $200 for a 121.5 MHz unit) for a 460 MHz ELT, it
would seem that the "best" ELT is the cheapest one broadcasting at 121.5,
there being no justification for buying an expensive 121.5 unit.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airfarame complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary K
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ELT selection
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary K" <flyink@efortress.com>
Hope this isn't too far off topic, I was ordering an ELT and got lost
comparing features. On three lower-end units from Spruce, there is one with
voice capability (AK-450), one that is satelite capable (ACK E-01), and one
that doesn't require an external antenna (EBC-102). I'm assuming each of
these features is mutually exclusive to each unit. There is also the remote
panel option on some of these. What is the satelite thing all about? Are
all rescue personnel able to get the satelite signal (is it worth getting)?
Any comments on any of these units? The AK-450 seems pretty popular and
that's what I was about to order but figured I'd try to learn more before
buying.
Thanks a bunch,
Gary (the last thing on my list to buy!) Krysztopik
Pelican PL w/subaru, 98% complete
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Dick's posting has some very IMPORTANT data to make a note of.
<Output at lower RPM.>
I have found that our "35 amp" alternator (not B&C) *probably* does 15-17
amps at "lower than cruise" RPMs. So ... when approaching the airport in
late afternoon, if I turn on both landing lights, along with strobe and nav,
and announce my position, by the time I am on final (if not before), I have
a BIG RED "low voltage" light staring me in the face. I can literally see
the voltmeter easing toward the lower numbers.
So make sure that you get an alternator that really does put out the
amperage you need without you having to be turning, say 2500 RPM.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Richard Sipp
> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 11:33 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Power budget
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp"
> <rsipp@earthlink.net>
>
> My RV-4 has the following electrical power consumers:
>
> landing lights (big old GE bulbs)
> nav lights
> GPS/com
> Nav/com
> transponder
> 3 unit strobes
> single cockpit flood led
> cockpit lighting dimmer
> VM1000 engine monitor
> intercom
> boost pump
>
> When all of this is operating (not transmitting) the amp load on
> the VM1000
> is stable at 27 amps.
> I use a B&C 35 amp alternator. With the above load and 700 rpm
> the voltage
> drops from the normal 14.3 to 13.9.
> At any rpm above idle the voltage returns to 14.3. Normal day VFR cruise
> load is about 15 amps.
>
> Dick Sipp
> RV4 N250DS
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Problem with strobe help |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Canyon <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
Fergus Kyle wrote:
>The traditional way to overcome inactivity for say a year or moe is to
>apply the alternating current at a very low voltage and slowly build
>it up to operating standard. If the 'paste' is still viable it will
>come back to normal.
---
For the most part, your post is right on. However do NOT place
Alternating Current (AC) across an electrolytic capacitor -- it very
likely will explode! Use DC and follow the rest of the advice. Any
decent capacitor will not need this done every year but long periods
may degrade the electrolyte. As a side note, AC rated capacitors don't
have similar problems. I have no idea what's inside the strobe
supplies, but would have suspected they are AC rated. From the
response posted by someone who talked to the factory, it sounds like
they are either confused or are using electrolytic caps for this
application.
Steve
Message 7
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Maxime Gou" <maximegou@hotmail.com>
please remove me from your list
>From: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ELT selection
>Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:26:51 -0700
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob Housman"
><RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
>
>If you are a member of AOPA check out this link in the AOPA Online Members
>Only section: ELT, Phone Home
>http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/1997/elt9711.html
>
>The last line in the article says everything you need to know..... "121.5
>MHz ELTs are just about worthless," said NOAA's Lt. Mark Moran. "Just about
>anything would be more effective." Not a very comforting thought. The
>article explains the reasons in detail but essentially it says that the
>121.5 MHz signals give locations that are rather imprecise, that the first
>one of the seven search and rescue satellites in polar orbit may take up to
>five hours to get within range, and that the ELT is most likely going to be
>destroyed on impact. Unless you are willing to pay the much higher price
>($2,800 versus less than $200 for a 121.5 MHz unit) for a 460 MHz ELT, it
>would seem that the "best" ELT is the cheapest one broadcasting at 121.5,
>there being no justification for buying an expensive 121.5 unit.
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Rob Housman
>Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
>Airfarame complete
>Irvine, CA
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary K
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: ELT selection
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary K" <flyink@efortress.com>
>
>Hope this isn't too far off topic, I was ordering an ELT and got lost
>comparing features. On three lower-end units from Spruce, there is one
>with
>voice capability (AK-450), one that is satelite capable (ACK E-01), and one
>that doesn't require an external antenna (EBC-102). I'm assuming each of
>these features is mutually exclusive to each unit. There is also the
>remote
>panel option on some of these. What is the satelite thing all about? Are
>all rescue personnel able to get the satelite signal (is it worth getting)?
>Any comments on any of these units? The AK-450 seems pretty popular and
>that's what I was about to order but figured I'd try to learn more before
>buying.
>
>Thanks a bunch,
> Gary (the last thing on my list to buy!) Krysztopik
> Pelican PL w/subaru, 98% complete
>
>
MSN Search, le moteur de recherche qui pense comme vous !
http://fr.ca.search.msn.com/
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Problem with strobe help |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Maxime Gou" <maximegou@hotmail.com>
please remove me from your list
>From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Problem with strobe help
>Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:28:13 -0400
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>
>There you have it, thanks to Michel -
>"And the more interesting part:
>"If this is the case, it is recommended to start operating the system on a
>voltage that is reduced by 25% for 10 to 15 minutes before putting the
>power supply into normal service. This will prevent overheating of the
>condenser while they reform. If the power supply, after a long period of
>non use, is
>operated at full voltage immediately, there is an excellent possibility
>that the condenser will become overheated."
>
> The fact is that many condensers are 'paste' or similar
>material which requires a voltage across it to keep it polarised. As this
>disappears, it slowly loses its effectiveness. This is true of radios,
>strobes or any article requiring a capacitor input. The traditional way to
>overcome inactivity for say a year or moe is to apply the alternating
>current at a very low voltage and slowly build it up to operating standard.
>If the 'paste' is still viable it will come back to normal. If that fails,
>one needs to test the capacitor out of the circuit and usually to replace
>it. Hams replace capacitors at regular intervals in equipment that is older
>but valuable. The same is true of Whelens, or any other condenser-driven
>circuits.
> Only a salesman interested in a % will advise to 'buy another'
>without offering an honest alternate first.
>Happy landings
>Ferg
>
>
http://messenger.fr.msn.ca/
Message 9
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| Subject: | To be removed from this list |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RSwanson <rswan19@comcast.net>
If you mean unsubscrib e then to unsubscrib e from this group you must
first
purchase a Craft-O-Matic Adjustable Subscription Cancellation Unit. The
unit
can be obtained from most hardware stores and dental clinics. Be sure to
obtain the proper permits to operate the unit from the Nuclear Regulatory
Commission and
the Food and Drug Administration in Washington D.C. USA.
Be sure to carefully unpack the kit and place each component in its
accompanying mesh safety bag. Mount the Pershing DF4 mesinator on top of
the
perforated Gerring Mach 77 refibulator and attach them using the
eight-millimeter torque fork. Be sure that the refibulator is mounted at a
66-degree angle and properly dispersed so that it is flush with the curved
section of the Pyrex thistle tube. Place the four sections of the
triangular separation gear into the posture cylinder and lock them into
place using the band-aid adhesive strip. Insert the wiggling pin into the
wobbling hole, making sure that it seated correctly. Place the D cell
battery and the eleven 9 volt batteries in the power chamber.
The device should be calibrated before operation using the optional digital
corkscrew accessory pack prior to operation. Insert the digital corkscrew
through the electronic combustion service chamber using caution
not to touch the reinforced tungsten igniter control module and quickly
turn
the inverter drive to 28.6 degrees. Turn the Craft-O-Matic Adjustable
Subscription Cancellation Unit upside down and hit the bottom plate with a
48-ounce ball-peen hammer while shaking the unit vigorously. Force open the
door to the incineration valve compartment and set the pressure gauge to
719
psi. Close the door and seal it shut with duct tape. The unit should now
be
properly calibrated and ready to use.
Before activating the Craft-O-Matic Adjustable Subscription Cancellation
Unit, you must first elevate it to a height of 229 feet above sea level to
insure that the unit receives the proper oxygen level and barometric
pressure. Point the aerial to 17 degrees north by northeast to within the
parameters of the Telstar GS-2 weather satellite and apply pressure to the
wing shaft on the southern most section of the modular accelerator. Using
the special ratchet adapter supplied with the unit, rotate the heater core
to the "on" position. The "on" position has been obtained when the green
light begins to flash, signifying that the red light is about to go off.
Once the red light is off, flip the toggle switch labeled "ON/OFF" to the
"ON" position and count to 47 before logging on to the system.
Logon using your username and password and wait for the prompt. Once
prompted you must check the box with the appropriate action you wish to
take
and then press the pressure release button and turn off the
compressor while turning the hand crank at 231 meters per minute. Next,
press control, alt, delete, caps lock, shift, number lock, escape and tab
simultaneously. Press enter.
You will have one second to complete the procedure. If you fail to respond
in the time limit allowed, simply purchase a new Craft-O-Matic Adjustable
Subscription Cancellation Unit and start from the beginning.
Please remember that this is the only way we will accept for you to
unsubscrib e from this group. We have made every attempt to simplify the
procedure for your convenience. Failure to comply with the unsubscrib e
policy will result in immediate termination of your subscription so please
follow the above directions closely.
Saw this on another list and couldn't resist. ;-)
R
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: ELT selection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RSwanson <rswan19@comcast.net>
From what I read all 121.5 ELT's will be phased out over the next several
years, so you need one that broadcast on both frequencies.
R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ELT selection
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob Housman"
<RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
>
> If you are a member of AOPA check out this link in the AOPA Online
Members
> Only section: ELT, Phone Home
> http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/1997/elt9711.html
>
> The last line in the article says everything you need to know..... "121.5
> MHz ELTs are just about worthless," said NOAA's Lt. Mark Moran. "Just
about
> anything would be more effective." Not a very comforting thought. The
> article explains the reasons in detail but essentially it says that the
> 121.5 MHz signals give locations that are rather imprecise, that the
first
> one of the seven search and rescue satellites in polar orbit may take up
to
> five hours to get within range, and that the ELT is most likely going to
be
> destroyed on impact. Unless you are willing to pay the much higher price
> ($2,800 versus less than $200 for a 121.5 MHz unit) for a 460 MHz ELT, it
> would seem that the "best" ELT is the cheapest one broadcasting at 121.5,
> there being no justification for buying an expensive 121.5 unit.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob Housman
> Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
> Airfarame complete
> Irvine, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary K
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: ELT selection
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary K" <flyink@efortress.com>
>
> Hope this isn't too far off topic, I was ordering an ELT and got lost
> comparing features. On three lower-end units from Spruce, there is one
with
> voice capability (AK-450), one that is satelite capable (ACK E-01), and
one
> that doesn't require an external antenna (EBC-102). I'm assuming each of
> these features is mutually exclusive to each unit. There is also the
remote
> panel option on some of these. What is the satelite thing all about?
Are
> all rescue personnel able to get the satelite signal (is it worth
getting)?
> Any comments on any of these units? The AK-450 seems pretty popular and
> that's what I was about to order but figured I'd try to learn more before
> buying.
>
> Thanks a bunch,
> Gary (the last thing on my list to buy!) Krysztopik
> Pelican PL w/subaru, 98% complete
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Problem with strobe help (capacitors going bad |
on shelf)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
I bought Whelen tail strobe at Oshkosh 2001. Instructions had the bit about
deterioration if not used for long period. I called tech supt and he said
that was valid for older units but not valid now as they have changed the
capacitors inside. No longer a worry. No longer need periodic "use" in
shop on shop DC power supply to keep alive.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Canyon" <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Problem with strobe help
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Canyon <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
>
> Fergus Kyle wrote:
> >The traditional way to overcome inactivity for say a year or moe is to
> >apply the alternating current at a very low voltage and slowly build
> >it up to operating standard. If the 'paste' is still viable it will
> >come back to normal.
> ---
> For the most part, your post is right on. However do NOT place
> Alternating Current (AC) across an electrolytic capacitor -- it very
> likely will explode! Use DC and follow the rest of the advice. Any
> decent capacitor will not need this done every year but long periods
> may degrade the electrolyte. As a side note, AC rated capacitors don't
> have similar problems. I have no idea what's inside the strobe
> supplies, but would have suspected they are AC rated. From the
> response posted by someone who talked to the factory, it sounds like
> they are either confused or are using electrolytic caps for this
> application.
>
> Steve
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Problem with strobe help (capacitors |
going bad on shelf)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Canyon <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
David Carter wrote:
>I bought Whelen tail strobe at Oshkosh 2001. Instructions had the bit
>about
>deterioration if not used for long period. I called tech supt and he
>said
>that was valid for older units but not valid now as they have changed the
>capacitors inside. No longer a worry. No longer need periodic "use" in
>shop on shop DC power supply to keep alive.
---
Thanks for the update, David. That's much more in line with what I
would have expected. I bet they learned that electrolytics was not the
best choice for their application somewhere along the way. :-)
Steve
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Problem with strobe help (capacitors going bad |
on shelf)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
I reported this "problem" 2 years ago in the Experimenter when some one said
their service rep said the re-formation of the "electrolytic" film wasn't
necessary anymore. BUT when I went to the web site, It still has the
following warning on their web site...'
"WARNING: Strobe light power supplies are meant to be used, not
to remain in an inactive state. Use them at all times, this will improve
their proper functioning. Any strobe light power supply that has been
out of service for a long period of time is subject to failure because
the electrolytic condenser loses the polarity formation. A strobe light
power supply not having been used for one year or longer is vulnerable
to failure.
If this is the case, it is recommended to start operating the system
on a voltage that is reduced by 25 percent for 10 to 15 minutes before
putting the power supply into normal service. This will prevent overheating
of the condenser while they reform. If the power supply, after
a long period of non use, is operated at full voltage immediately, there
is an excellent possibility that the condenser will become overheated."
So now which do you believe?
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Canyon" <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Problem with strobe help (capacitors going
bad on shelf)
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Canyon <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
>
> David Carter wrote:
> >I bought Whelen tail strobe at Oshkosh 2001. Instructions had the bit
> >about
> >deterioration if not used for long period. I called tech supt and he
> >said
> >that was valid for older units but not valid now as they have changed the
> >capacitors inside. No longer a worry. No longer need periodic "use" in
> >shop on shop DC power supply to keep alive.
> ---
> Thanks for the update, David. That's much more in line with what I
> would have expected. I bet they learned that electrolytics was not the
> best choice for their application somewhere along the way. :-)
>
> Steve
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Problem with strobe help (capacitors |
going bad on shelf)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Canyon <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
Cy Galley wrote:
>If the power supply, after
>a long period of non use, is operated at full voltage immediately, there
>is an excellent possibility that the condenser will become overheated."
>
>So now which do you believe?
---
Cy, I think both scenarios may be true and have reasonable
explanations. I'm sure they believe there may be many old units out
there still and wish to advise correctly for them. Such advice will do
no harm on the newer units either, I'm confident. And they may also
have new units which are not subject to the problem at all.
Their method of correction for the old units seems very reasonable --
the difference in what I said and they said is that they recommend
placing a lower voltage on the whole power supply (not across internal
capacitors) as the internal caps are undoubtedly subjected to a proper
voltage which is proportional to the power supply input voltage. My
main fear was that someone might be tempted to place AC voltages
across an electrolytic -- I've called at least one ambulance to haul a
tech to the emergency room over just such a trick. He's lucky he could
still see when the smoke cleared. :-)
Regards,
Steve
Message 15
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Byron & Jean" <byronjean@ticon.net>
I just opened my whelen power supply Mod. A413AHOA-CF-14/28, MFG Date 10/01. Found
two caps about 3 5/8" long by 1 3/8" dia with a plus sign next to one of the
screw terminal on each cap. They are tied in series with 2 wires each form
the plus and negative terminals. The fifth wire is from the series junction. RTV
holds them in place on an aluminum bracket. On the body of one cap the # 51-3361401-42
and # 00-51 along with Whelen Engineering Co., Canada. Printed on
the bottom is 417mF with a black line drawn through it. One more thing, by opening
it I found two unattacted washers and two stand off screws loose. I'm glad
I looked inside. Thanks for bring it to my attention.
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