Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:28 AM - Port to Com Radio (William Bernard)
2. 05:50 AM - Re: Power budget (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 05:58 AM - Re: Yaesu Aviator Pilot (Pebvjs@aol.com)
4. 06:35 AM - Re: Pilot Controlled Battery Disconnect - (Shaun Simpkins)
5. 06:47 AM - Re: NiCads and such ()
6. 10:58 AM - Re: Yaesu Aviator Pilot (Jeffrey)
7. 11:23 AM - Re: Yaesu Aviator Pilot (rondefly)
8. 11:26 AM - Re[2]: Yaesu Aviator Pilot (Freddie Freeloader)
9. 12:12 PM - BillBernard's handheld (Fergus Kyle)
10. 12:59 PM - Re: Yaesu Aviator Pilot (William Mills)
11. 01:05 PM - Re: Power budget (Shannon Knoepflein)
12. 01:09 PM - Re: Pilot Controlled Battery Disconnect - (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 01:41 PM - Re: Must strobe feed wires be shielded? (Shannon Knoepflein)
14. 01:57 PM - Re: ALT questions (Shannon Knoepflein)
15. 03:17 PM - autopilot (David.vonLinsowe)
16. 03:44 PM - Re: autopilot (BobsV35B@aol.com)
17. 07:49 PM - Re: ALT questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 07:52 PM - Re: Yaesu Aviator Pilot (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 07:56 PM - Re: autopilot (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 07:59 PM - Re: BillBernard's handheld (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 08:01 PM - Re: NiCads and such (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
22. 08:03 PM - Re: Port to Com Radio (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 08:46 PM - Re: Port to Com Radio (Mauri Morin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Port to Com Radio |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard" <billbernard@worldnet.att.net>
I asked the same question about the antenna for a hand held radio on another list
and got an intriguing reply: the responder connected the hand held radio to
the ELT antenna. (He appears to have disconnected the ELT from the antenna to
use the hand held.)
One brief experiment suggested that the ELT antenna would work, and provide a relatively
simple solution to the antenna problem if there were some way to hook
both transmitters to the same antenna.
Could some sort of splitter be used in this situation? One of the radios wil be
turned off when the other is in use. Will the energy from the antenna lead make
the innards of the 'other' radio unhappy, even if it is not functional?
Also, I found Bob's drawing of a com port for a handheld. I think I understand
how to build it, but I have some questions.
1) Am I correct is assuming that this device functions like some sort of 'interupt'?
That is, the primary com radio is connected to the antenna UNTIL the handheld
radio is plugged in, and then the handheld is connected to the antenna?
2) How is the jack on the end of the coax to the handheld wired? Center conductor
to the tip and ground the shield?
Thanks
Bill
Message 2
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:34 AM 4/23/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
><james@nextupventures.com>
>
>Bob, yes, I meant to say ENGINE RPM.
>
>BTW, do you have any idea as to the output of the 20 amp model at 1500
>(engine) RPM when mounted on the accessory case?
>
>Thanks,
>
>James
Due to poor output speed of
vacuum pump pad, any alternator on this
power source will function well only at
cruise rpms. The spec sheet for the
SD-20 can be had at
http://www.bandc.biz/SD-20.PDF
which tells you that for 2,000 alternator
rpm (1,500 * 1.3) you get 12A on
the 14v version.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Yaesu Aviator Pilot |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Pebvjs@aol.com
The following post on the Canard Aviators list addresses the issue.
Ed Sadler
Subj: [c-a] Yaesu Handheld -- Caveat emptor.
From: brucem@theworks.com (Bruce McElhoe)
Hello,
I thought you might be interested and amazed at the exchange of letters I
had recently with Vertex Standard, the manufacturers of Yaesu handheld
transceivers. I wrote the following to their U.S. office in Cerritos,
California. [condensed version].
I bought a "VXA-100 Aviator Pilot" transceiver [with a VOR receiver]....I
recently had the opportunity to try the navigation receiver during a flight
in my own fiberglass airplane with direct line-of-sight to several VOR
transmitters in Nevada. I am distressed to find that, even in these ideal
conditions, the heading information (including the CDI indicator) is erratic
and unuseable.
I called your service department in Cerritos, California, and learned that
erratic readings are characteristic of that model and can not be corrected.
I was told the following:
1. The navigation function is designed to have a steady reading only
while the receiver is not moving. I was informed that readings would always
be unuseable in a moving airplane!
2. They are well aware of this shortcoming in the design, and their
attempts in the past to improve the performance have been unsuccessful.
3. Your service department does not have a signal generator to test
position information from the navigation receiver. They are currently
unable to attempt repairs to my receiver, even if they thought they could
succeed.
I am disappointed in your product and advertising because I clearly expected
your VXA-100 to operate in my moving airplane. I was informed also that
your newer navigation receiver, Model VXA-200/16, actually displays a
readable VOR signal while the receiver is moving.
Accordingly, I propose an exchange that will reduce my disappointment
greatly and restore my confidence in the trustworthiness of Yaesu. [I then
proposed to send them my transceiver and the difference in price between
mine and the newer VXA-200/16.]
I received the following answer from David Akins, Manager, Commercial
Service, Vertex Standard:
[quote] We do understand the circumstances that you describe with respect to
the VOR operation in the VXA-100. The problems that you describe are more
related to the attempted use of any handheld radio for VOR operation inside
a moving airplane. This is why we state in the VXA-100 Operating Manual:
"Note The VXA-100's VOR and CDI Navigation features are supplemental aids to
navigation only, and are not intended to be a substitute for accurate
(primary) VOR/CDI or landing service equipment.".... We do wish that VOR
function could be made more accurate and stable, but our factory advises
that this just is not possible in a handheld radio.
"Nonetheless, we are unable to honor your request for a direct factory
trade-in.....We are sorry for your disappointment. [unquote].
Well, they got the "disappointment" part right. I wonder where I got the
idea that a handheld VOR receiver would work in a moving airplane? Maybe it
was from their advertisements. Unfortunately, the receiver is useless as
even a "supplemental aid to navigation". The digits change so fast on the
display that they are unreadable.
Caveat emptor.
Bruce McElhoe Long-EZ N64MC
Reedley, California
.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Pilot Controlled Battery Disconnect - |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns@hevanet.com>
Bob:
I don't understand how this would work. The relay could only be engaged if
the load was able to provide positive voltage at sufficient current to pull in
the
coil. If the intent here is to pass most of a large current through a relay instead
of
a switch on the panel, shouldn't the relay coil be connected to the bus side of
the
circuit instead of the load side?
Shaun Simpkins
Time: 06:29:04 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pilot Controlled Battery Disconnect -
help Bob
Sorry to take so long to get back to this . . . been busy.
Download
http://216.55.140.222/temp/v1.pdf
http://216.55.140.222/temp/v2.pdf
http://216.55.140.222/temp/v3.pdf
. . . trim with scissors and use transparent tape to
put these three drawings together into a larger, easier
to read document.
This illustrates a technique for installing control relays
adjacent to the battery bus when switched loads are protected
at greater than 7A . I'm going to add this technique to the 'Connection at
Rev 11.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: NiCads and such |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
Bob,
I learned alot from the sites you showed. Do you know where a 1 tot 2
milliamp charger can be purchased. What voltage should the 1 to 2 milliamp
charger put out?
Thanks
Ned
>
> The nicad/nimh products have a self discharge rate of about 1% per
> day. I've had really good luck with true "trickle" charging for
> both nicads and nimh cells . . . the 1 to 2 ma charge rate suggested
> in the FAQ cited above works good and won't damage the cells by
> overcharging. The "wall-wart" style chargers designed to recharge
> AA cells overnight are very hard on cells . . . don't store cells
> in one of these things to keep them "ready to go" . . . the
> goal is to just overcome self-discharge rates so a "sustaining"
> fixture is much lower power output than most of the practical
> overnight chargers.
>
> I've found that nicads in my cordless phones get 20-30 ma constant
> charge while the handset is in place . . . this is why you only get
> about a year of service from most cordless telephone nicads.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Yaesu Aviator Pilot |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeffrey" <dump@relaypoint.net>
Geeze... thanks for saving me a headache, I wanted one of these handhelds.
This is horrible... Maybe we should make up a complaint letter that
everybody on this list can send to Yaesu... that should get their attention.
I'm sure they won't relish the idea of so many potential customers that have
lost interest and are using word of mouth to get the word out about there
policies and products.
Jeff
(RV-8 Wings)
----- Original Message -----
From: <Pebvjs@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Yaesu Aviator Pilot
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Pebvjs@aol.com
>
> The following post on the Canard Aviators list addresses the issue.
> Ed Sadler
>
> Subj: [c-a] Yaesu Handheld -- Caveat emptor.
> Date: 12/5/01 11:52:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
> From: brucem@theworks.com (Bruce McElhoe)
> To: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com (Canard Aviator's Mailing List)
>
> Hello,
>
> I thought you might be interested and amazed at the exchange of letters I
> had recently with Vertex Standard, the manufacturers of Yaesu handheld
> transceivers. I wrote the following to their U.S. office in Cerritos,
> California. [condensed version].
>
> I bought a "VXA-100 Aviator Pilot" transceiver [with a VOR receiver]....I
> recently had the opportunity to try the navigation receiver during a
flight
> in my own fiberglass airplane with direct line-of-sight to several VOR
> transmitters in Nevada. I am distressed to find that, even in these ideal
> conditions, the heading information (including the CDI indicator) is
erratic
> and unuseable.
>
> I called your service department in Cerritos, California, and learned that
> erratic readings are characteristic of that model and can not be
corrected.
> I was told the following:
>
> 1. The navigation function is designed to have a steady reading only
> while the receiver is not moving. I was informed that readings would
always
> be unuseable in a moving airplane!
>
> 2. They are well aware of this shortcoming in the design, and their
> attempts in the past to improve the performance have been unsuccessful.
>
> 3. Your service department does not have a signal generator to test
> position information from the navigation receiver. They are currently
> unable to attempt repairs to my receiver, even if they thought they could
> succeed.
>
> I am disappointed in your product and advertising because I clearly
expected
> your VXA-100 to operate in my moving airplane. I was informed also that
> your newer navigation receiver, Model VXA-200/16, actually displays a
> readable VOR signal while the receiver is moving.
>
> Accordingly, I propose an exchange that will reduce my disappointment
> greatly and restore my confidence in the trustworthiness of Yaesu. [I
then
> proposed to send them my transceiver and the difference in price between
> mine and the newer VXA-200/16.]
>
> I received the following answer from David Akins, Manager, Commercial
> Service, Vertex Standard:
>
> [quote] We do understand the circumstances that you describe with respect
to
> the VOR operation in the VXA-100. The problems that you describe are more
> related to the attempted use of any handheld radio for VOR operation
inside
> a moving airplane. This is why we state in the VXA-100 Operating Manual:
> "Note The VXA-100's VOR and CDI Navigation features are supplemental aids
to
> navigation only, and are not intended to be a substitute for accurate
> (primary) VOR/CDI or landing service equipment.".... We do wish that VOR
> function could be made more accurate and stable, but our factory advises
> that this just is not possible in a handheld radio.
>
> "Nonetheless, we are unable to honor your request for a direct factory
> trade-in.....We are sorry for your disappointment. [unquote].
>
> Well, they got the "disappointment" part right. I wonder where I got the
> idea that a handheld VOR receiver would work in a moving airplane? Maybe
it
> was from their advertisements. Unfortunately, the receiver is useless as
> even a "supplemental aid to navigation". The digits change so fast on the
> display that they are unreadable.
>
> Caveat emptor.
>
> Bruce McElhoe Long-EZ N64MC
> Reedley, California
>
> .
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Yaesu Aviator Pilot |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rondefly" <rondefly@pacbell.net>
also send it into EAA National.
Ron Triano Quicker one Q-200, 90% Done with 90% to go
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Jeffrey
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Yaesu Aviator Pilot
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeffrey" <dump@relaypoint.net>
Geeze... thanks for saving me a headache, I wanted one of these handhelds.
This is horrible... Maybe we should make up a complaint letter that
everybody on this list can send to Yaesu... that should get their attention.
I'm sure they won't relish the idea of so many potential customers that have
lost interest and are using word of mouth to get the word out about there
policies and products.
Jeff
(RV-8 Wings)
----- Original Message -----
From: <Pebvjs@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Yaesu Aviator Pilot
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Pebvjs@aol.com
>
> The following post on the Canard Aviators list addresses the issue.
> Ed Sadler
>
> Subj: [c-a] Yaesu Handheld -- Caveat emptor.
> Date: 12/5/01 11:52:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
> From: brucem@theworks.com (Bruce McElhoe)
> To: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com (Canard Aviator's Mailing List)
>
> Hello,
>
> I thought you might be interested and amazed at the exchange of letters I
> had recently with Vertex Standard, the manufacturers of Yaesu handheld
> transceivers. I wrote the following to their U.S. office in Cerritos,
> California. [condensed version].
>
> I bought a "VXA-100 Aviator Pilot" transceiver [with a VOR receiver]....I
> recently had the opportunity to try the navigation receiver during a
flight
> in my own fiberglass airplane with direct line-of-sight to several VOR
> transmitters in Nevada. I am distressed to find that, even in these ideal
> conditions, the heading information (including the CDI indicator) is
erratic
> and unuseable.
>
> I called your service department in Cerritos, California, and learned that
> erratic readings are characteristic of that model and can not be
corrected.
> I was told the following:
>
> 1. The navigation function is designed to have a steady reading only
> while the receiver is not moving. I was informed that readings would
always
> be unuseable in a moving airplane!
>
> 2. They are well aware of this shortcoming in the design, and their
> attempts in the past to improve the performance have been unsuccessful.
>
> 3. Your service department does not have a signal generator to test
> position information from the navigation receiver. They are currently
> unable to attempt repairs to my receiver, even if they thought they could
> succeed.
>
> I am disappointed in your product and advertising because I clearly
expected
> your VXA-100 to operate in my moving airplane. I was informed also that
> your newer navigation receiver, Model VXA-200/16, actually displays a
> readable VOR signal while the receiver is moving.
>
> Accordingly, I propose an exchange that will reduce my disappointment
> greatly and restore my confidence in the trustworthiness of Yaesu. [I
then
> proposed to send them my transceiver and the difference in price between
> mine and the newer VXA-200/16.]
>
> I received the following answer from David Akins, Manager, Commercial
> Service, Vertex Standard:
>
> [quote] We do understand the circumstances that you describe with respect
to
> the VOR operation in the VXA-100. The problems that you describe are more
> related to the attempted use of any handheld radio for VOR operation
inside
> a moving airplane. This is why we state in the VXA-100 Operating Manual:
> "Note The VXA-100's VOR and CDI Navigation features are supplemental aids
to
> navigation only, and are not intended to be a substitute for accurate
> (primary) VOR/CDI or landing service equipment.".... We do wish that VOR
> function could be made more accurate and stable, but our factory advises
> that this just is not possible in a handheld radio.
>
> "Nonetheless, we are unable to honor your request for a direct factory
> trade-in.....We are sorry for your disappointment. [unquote].
>
> Well, they got the "disappointment" part right. I wonder where I got the
> idea that a handheld VOR receiver would work in a moving airplane? Maybe
it
> was from their advertisements. Unfortunately, the receiver is useless as
> even a "supplemental aid to navigation". The digits change so fast on the
> display that they are unreadable.
>
> Caveat emptor.
>
> Bruce McElhoe Long-EZ N64MC
> Reedley, California
>
> .
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Yaesu Aviator Pilot |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Freddie Freeloader <lists@stevet.net>
Hello All,
I agree. I was considering purchasing one of these as well. This
is a horrible attitude to take. What's the address?
--
Best regards,
Freddie mailto:lists@stevet.net
Wednesday, April 23, 2003, 10:58:20 AM, you wrote:
-->> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeffrey" <dump@relaypoint.net>
J> Geeze... thanks for saving me a headache, I wanted one of these handhelds.
J> This is horrible...
<snip>
Message 9
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| Subject: | BillBernard's handheld |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Cheers,
The following appeared today and prompted a remark or two (which
follows).
"Time: 07:26:59 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Handheld Radio Antenna
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:06 AM 4/19/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard"
><billbernard@worldnet.att.net>
>
>I'd like to install a handleld radio with the 'rubber ducky' antenna
>mounted near the window. The radio will usually rest between the seats
>behind cockpit metal sides and so might not work well.
>Could I just put an aluminum angle on the side of the fuselage to hold a
>bulkhead mount BNC connector, or would a more elaborate ground plane be
>required/desirable?>
>I'd like the radio to be removable to be usable as a hand held radio, so
>the antenna needs to be available in the aircraft. The goal is to be able
>to use it as a backup radio with a minimum of fuss and bother in the event
of failure of the panel mount radio.
>Thanks in advance for the help. What you propose will probably work fine.
Bob . . ."
The journal of the American Radio Relay League published an article on a
similar layout about two years ago. The topic was the temporary attachment
of a "groundplane" (or 'counterpoise') element to the handheld. Hams use a
frequency slightly higher than fliers in the VHF spectrum, so the general
comparison applies.
The idea was to attach a wire by means of an alligator clip to
the BNC exterior connector and array it outward from the antenna base at
about 90deg (although I think 45 would improve horizontal radiation if the
1/4wave whip is vertical). This does not work with a rubber duckie, but only
1/4wave vert. The length of the wire is about 5% longer than the calculated
1/4wave electrical length, and it seemed to add a verifiable percentage to
the signal strength at a distance.
Just a thought.
Ferg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Yaesu Aviator Pilot |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: William Mills <courierboy@earthlink.net>
Thanks Bruce -
Sorry to hear about this rotten experience - I strongly agree that
this stinks. I also see the letter is dated 12/5/01.
Maybe, hopefully, Yaesu's sales and reputation have suffered and
they'll drop these lame-brained excuses for falsely marketing a "VOR
receiver with CDI display" (maybe it's that "communist" antenna
connector they use instead of BNC?) ;-)
A web search shows they still advertise the same model with VOR
capability. I hope David Akins will learn of our concerns and speak
up.
Bill (Icom A-23)
RANS Courier/912uls in progress
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Pebvjs@aol.com
>
>The following post on the Canard Aviators list addresses the issue.
>Ed Sadler
>
>Subj: [c-a] Yaesu Handheld -- Caveat emptor.
>Date: 12/5/01 11:52:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
>From: brucem@theworks.com (Bruce McElhoe)
>To: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com (Canard Aviator's Mailing List)
>
>Hello,
>
>I thought you might be interested and amazed at the exchange of letters I
>had recently with Vertex Standard, the manufacturers of Yaesu handheld
>transceivers. I wrote the following to their U.S. office in Cerritos,
>California. [condensed version].
>
>I bought a "VXA-100 Aviator Pilot" transceiver [with a VOR receiver]....I
>recently had the opportunity to try the navigation receiver during a flight
>in my own fiberglass airplane with direct line-of-sight to several VOR
>transmitters in Nevada. I am distressed to find that, even in these ideal
>conditions, the heading information (including the CDI indicator) is erratic
>and unuseable.
>
>I called your service department in Cerritos, California, and learned that
>erratic readings are characteristic of that model and can not be corrected.
>I was told the following:
>
> 1. The navigation function is designed to have a steady reading only
>while the receiver is not moving. I was informed that readings would always
>be unuseable in a moving airplane!
>
> 2. They are well aware of this shortcoming in the design, and their
>attempts in the past to improve the performance have been unsuccessful.
>
> 3. Your service department does not have a signal generator to test
>position information from the navigation receiver. They are currently
>unable to attempt repairs to my receiver, even if they thought they could
>succeed.
>
>I am disappointed in your product and advertising because I clearly expected
>your VXA-100 to operate in my moving airplane. I was informed also that
>your newer navigation receiver, Model VXA-200/16, actually displays a
>readable VOR signal while the receiver is moving.
>
>Accordingly, I propose an exchange that will reduce my disappointment
>greatly and restore my confidence in the trustworthiness of Yaesu. [I then
>proposed to send them my transceiver and the difference in price between
>mine and the newer VXA-200/16.]
>
>I received the following answer from David Akins, Manager, Commercial
>Service, Vertex Standard:
>
>[quote] We do understand the circumstances that you describe with respect to
>the VOR operation in the VXA-100. The problems that you describe are more
>related to the attempted use of any handheld radio for VOR operation inside
>a moving airplane. This is why we state in the VXA-100 Operating Manual:
>"Note The VXA-100's VOR and CDI Navigation features are supplemental aids to
>navigation only, and are not intended to be a substitute for accurate
>(primary) VOR/CDI or landing service equipment.".... We do wish that VOR
>function could be made more accurate and stable, but our factory advises
>that this just is not possible in a handheld radio.
>
>"Nonetheless, we are unable to honor your request for a direct factory
>trade-in.....We are sorry for your disappointment. [unquote].
>
>Well, they got the "disappointment" part right. I wonder where I got the
>idea that a handheld VOR receiver would work in a moving airplane? Maybe it
>was from their advertisements. Unfortunately, the receiver is useless as
>even a "supplemental aid to navigation". The digits change so fast on the
>display that they are unreadable.
>
>Caveat emptor.
>
>Bruce McElhoe Long-EZ N64MC
>Reedley, California
>
>.
>
>
Message 11
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann@kyol.net>
A good starting point for you will be my spreadsheet at
http://shannon.v8eaters.com/images/lancair/ click on the spreadsheet
and save it. This will give you some ideas on realistic amp draws, and
show you how to do your budget for each phase of flight, which is what
is really important. Try that and see if you can make more sense of it.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Treff, Arthur
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Power budget
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Treff, Arthur"
<Arthur.Treff@Smartm.com>
'Letric Bob (and the list),
I'm putting together my power budget for my RV-8's electrical system.
When I use the max current draw shown on all the avionics specifications
along with strobes, landing and taxi lights and pitot heat, I'm up
towards 60 amps! Clearly I must be doing something wrong. Can you
provide some guidance on how to size an alternator and if there is a
multiplier that is normally used to calculate nominal current from the
max that is published. It will be a basic IFR ship with pitot heat and
lights and Trutrack with alt hold.
For the GNS 430, for instance, Garmin tech support said that when the
unit is just receiving in cruise, expect 1.5 amps; during approach
phase, when driving needles and switching freq's and cursoring around,
expect 3.0 amps. Then, when the mic is keyed, ADD another 6 amps. This
appears very high to me, as the installation guide from Garmin specifies
two inputs, each protected by a 5 amp fuse.
With lighting, should I expect that the 100W landing light draws 8.3
amps at all times, or is this an inrush current? Whelen strobe power
supply says its rated for 7 amps, is that the value I should put into my
budget? I'm using a Piper heated pitot/static mast, but have no clue
how much it draws.
Most people I talk to say that a 40 amp alternator is more than most
planes need. Any comments on how to get me there?
Art Treff
RV-8
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Pilot Controlled Battery Disconnect - |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:37 AM 4/23/2003 -0700, you wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns@hevanet.com>
Bob:
I don't understand how this would work. The relay could only be engaged if
the load was able to provide positive voltage at sufficient current to pull
in the
coil. If the intent here is to pass most of a large current through a
relay instead of
a switch on the panel, shouldn't the relay coil be connected to the bus
side of the
circuit instead of the load side?
Good eye my friend. Got my mouse cord tangled around my
eyeteeth and couldn't see what I was drawing. I'd snatched
some pieces from another drawing and didn't get the details
sifted out. Here's a better crack at it. If you already have
v2.pdf and v3.pdf, they are not changed. Download v1a.pdf
only.
> http://216.55.140.222/temp/v1a.pdf
> http://216.55.140.222/temp/v2.pdf
> http://216.55.140.222/temp/v3.pdf
Thanks for the heads-up!
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Must strobe feed wires be shielded? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann@kyol.net>
I've followed up my questions from previous weeks about strobe light
wire size with Whelen over the past week or so, and finally got to the
bottom of it yesterday. The Whelen supply with Cometflash releases 42J
in 4 pules over 405ms. The first pulse is 18J, second-fourth are 8J
each. The first two happen within 200ms. The output is about 400-450V.
So, worst case, we have 26J in 200ms at 400V. 26J / 0.200s = 130W.
130W at 400V is (130/400) about .33A. The first pulse of 18J occurs in
22.8ms, so 790W, or 1.97A peak.
The power loss in the 22 gauge is I
2*R. So a 20 foot run would have
0.32ohms resistance. 42J is released each flash, and there are 45
flashes a minute, so 42J every 1.33 seconds, 42J/1.33s=31.5W, 31.5W/400V
is 0.08A. Let use the absolute worse case scenario of the peak current
of 1.97A (not necasary, but will demonstrate we are more than fine).
Power loss is 1.97
2 times 0.32, or just 1.24W. Again, worst case, use
the 31.5W average power consumption, at 1.24W loss, we are only loosing
less than 4% of the power in the wire. More realistic is we are
actually only loosing about 0.007% (0.08
2*0.32 / 31.5).
22 gauge is good for 5A continuous, so we are fine at 22. Whelen
engineers even admitted this after I forced them to do the calculation.
They said they were "just being safe and conservative" in their 16-18
gauge recommendation.
So, use 22 gauge 3 conductor shielded will work great.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Hoskins
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Must strobe feed wires be shielded?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins"
<shoskins@globaleyes.net>
I have received the Nova power suply from Nova, and it lights up my
Whelen
tubes just Jim Dandy. I bought the Micropak which puts out 20 Jules
each to
two tubes. Fairly light weight, simple and cheap.
However, I can't squeeze the supplied cables through my existing plastic
tube (embedded in the wing) along with the two 18AWG I need for the
position
lights. The three conductor 18 AWG shielded has a nominal diameter of
0.246". I think the cable is Belden's #8770.
I found a Belden #8771 which uses 22AWG and has a nominal diameter of
0.199". I think that will do the trick. The run inside the composite
wing
is about eight feet.
Any comments here?
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Richard Tasker
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Must strobe feed wires be shielded?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
<retasker@optonline.net>
The resistance of the wire you want to use (22 AWG) it is less than 0.02
ohms per foot. For a 15 foot length that gives you 0.3 ohms. If you
have a 500V supply supplying 42J in 2 mS that is 42A. Calculating out
the voltage drop due to this current gives you a drop of approximately
12V. This means that you are losing less than 3% of the energy in the
pulse (500V - 12V). If you do the same calculations with 18 AWG you
find you are losing about 1%. So the difference is 2% - not
significant. The total energy dissipation in the wire created by 42A
for 2mS is equivalent to an average current of 1.8A - well within the
rating of 22AWG wire.
So... Common sense and good engineering says this should work just fine
- especially of you have a problem fitting 18 AWG wire.
Dick Tasker
Message 14
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann@kyol.net>
Bob, in your alternator design, what belt tension do you recommend?
What belt tension will the bearings tolerate in your alternator?
I ask because my alternator is belt driven along with my supercharger
from a large pulley behind the spinner on the front of the engine. The
supercharger sits on one side (copilot) and the alternator on the other
(pilot). The pulley is 12", and the belt is 10 rib. See attached pic.
There is an idler/tensioner pulley on each side (see pic).
What is a good way to calculate the belt tension of this setup and to
figure out if I will alternator bearing problems? The tensioner/idler
pulley is "pulled up tight" by use of a 10-32 screw that screws into a
tapped hole in the very top of the bracket that holds the
tensioner/idler pulley. This screw pushes against the top (of the 2)
bolt that secures the tensioner/idler assembly. This bolt is torqued to
45in-pounds. The belt feels sorta loose, looks like normal automotive
belt tension. Does the force on this bolt/screw directly correspond to
the tension on the belt, so 45in-pounds? Or is it 90 in-pounds as there
are 2 tensioners?
This late in the day my force diagrams from physics are escaping my
grasp.
Thanks for the help.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net
running faster increases cooling from internal fans and
improves output at ramp RPMs. The larger pulley was developed
to offset perceived bearing life problems due to "overspeed" when
in fact, the bearings will run very happily at high speed
as long as the rotor is balanced well.
Message 15
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David.vonLinsowe" <David.vonLinsowe@delphi.com>
Bob,
I went down to Sun-n-Fun to autopilot shop for my RV-6. I've been doing
research for some time and just needed a little more info before making
the plunge. What struck me the most was the manufacturers inability to
answer simple questions (and this was on the first day). I was also
somewhat disappointed that there was no clear winner between Navaid,
DigiTrack and DigiFlight 100 from what I learned while there.
The new version of the DigiFlight 100 that was briefly mentioned would
be the way to go (upgraded gyros and a standard instrument hole format),
but they didn't have a plan of when they're going to do it.
I've more or less decided on going with the Navaid because at this point
of the airplane's evolution I won't have to cut the panel up (just
replace the turn and bank) and it's cheap. The problem with the Navaid
is the way it will sometimes veer right or left when it's first engaged
then realize it's off course and then correct. The manufacturer knows
of the situation, but doesn't know why it behaves that way.
I was wondering if you or anyone else out there has come up with a
solution to the problem?
Dave
RV-6
Message 16
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 4/23/03 5:37:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
David.vonLinsowe@delphi.com writes:
> I was wondering if you or anyone else out there has come up with a
> solution to the problem?
>
Buy the TruTrak!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Message 17
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:55 PM 4/23/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein"
><kycshann@kyol.net>
>
>Bob, in your alternator design, what belt tension do you recommend?
>What belt tension will the bearings tolerate in your alternator?
>
>I ask because my alternator is belt driven along with my supercharger
>from a large pulley behind the spinner on the front of the engine. The
>supercharger sits on one side (copilot) and the alternator on the other
>(pilot). The pulley is 12", and the belt is 10 rib. See attached pic.
>There is an idler/tensioner pulley on each side (see pic).
>
>What is a good way to calculate the belt tension of this setup and to
>figure out if I will alternator bearing problems? The tensioner/idler
>pulley is "pulled up tight" by use of a 10-32 screw that screws into a
>tapped hole in the very top of the bracket that holds the
>tensioner/idler pulley. This screw pushes against the top (of the 2)
>bolt that secures the tensioner/idler assembly. This bolt is torqued to
>45in-pounds. The belt feels sorta loose, looks like normal automotive
>belt tension. Does the force on this bolt/screw directly correspond to
>the tension on the belt, so 45in-pounds? Or is it 90 in-pounds as there
>are 2 tensioners?
>
>This late in the day my force diagrams from physics are escaping my
>grasp.
>
>Thanks for the help.
Bill Bainbridge would be better for this question. Give
him a call at 316.283.8000 and let us know what he
says . . .
Bob . . .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Yaesu Aviator Pilot |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:58 PM 4/23/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: William Mills
><courierboy@earthlink.net>
>
>Thanks Bruce -
>
>Sorry to hear about this rotten experience - I strongly agree that
>this stinks. I also see the letter is dated 12/5/01.
>Maybe, hopefully, Yaesu's sales and reputation have suffered and
>they'll drop these lame-brained excuses for falsely marketing a "VOR
>receiver with CDI display" (maybe it's that "communist" antenna
>connector they use instead of BNC?) ;-)
>A web search shows they still advertise the same model with VOR
>capability. I hope David Akins will learn of our concerns and speak
>up.
>
>Bill (Icom A-23)
>RANS Courier/912uls in progress
I'll be putting the Japan Radio VOR/COMM hand-held
back up on the web site in a few weeks . . I've had one
for a couple of years. Never tried to use it for VOR
back up but the view times I tuned VOR stations in
while airborne, it gave me stable readings about 10
miles out. Would probably work well with external
antenna. I have an experiment I'm going to try for
a temporary external antenna. I'll try to get it
run and report the results before I put the radio
back on the website . . .
Bob . . .
Message 19
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:16 PM 4/23/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David.vonLinsowe"
><David.vonLinsowe@delphi.com>
>
>Bob,
>
>I went down to Sun-n-Fun to autopilot shop for my RV-6. I've been doing
>research for some time and just needed a little more info before making
>the plunge. What struck me the most was the manufacturers inability to
>answer simple questions (and this was on the first day). I was also
>somewhat disappointed that there was no clear winner between Navaid,
>DigiTrack and DigiFlight 100 from what I learned while there.
>
>The new version of the DigiFlight 100 that was briefly mentioned would
>be the way to go (upgraded gyros and a standard instrument hole format),
>but they didn't have a plan of when they're going to do it.
>
>I've more or less decided on going with the Navaid because at this point
>of the airplane's evolution I won't have to cut the panel up (just
>replace the turn and bank) and it's cheap. The problem with the Navaid
>is the way it will sometimes veer right or left when it's first engaged
>then realize it's off course and then correct. The manufacturer knows
>of the situation, but doesn't know why it behaves that way.
>
>I was wondering if you or anyone else out there has come up with a
>solution to the problem?
the Navaid hasn't been updated in a very long time. As I recall,
it's a pure analog servo system. He should be able to fix this
problem but for the price, perhaps the idiosyncrasies are
forgivable?
Bob . . .
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: BillBernard's handheld |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:13 PM 4/23/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>
>Cheers,
> The following appeared today and prompted a remark or two (which
>follows).
>
>"Time: 07:26:59 AM PST US
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Handheld Radio Antenna
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>At 08:06 AM 4/19/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard"
> ><billbernard@worldnet.att.net>
> >
> >I'd like to install a handleld radio with the 'rubber ducky' antenna
> >mounted near the window. The radio will usually rest between the seats
> >behind cockpit metal sides and so might not work well.
> >Could I just put an aluminum angle on the side of the fuselage to hold a
> >bulkhead mount BNC connector, or would a more elaborate ground plane be
> >required/desirable?>
> >I'd like the radio to be removable to be usable as a hand held radio, so
> >the antenna needs to be available in the aircraft. The goal is to be able
> >to use it as a backup radio with a minimum of fuss and bother in the event
>of failure of the panel mount radio.
> >Thanks in advance for the help. What you propose will probably work fine.
>Bob . . ."
>
>The journal of the American Radio Relay League published an article on a
>similar layout about two years ago. The topic was the temporary attachment
>of a "groundplane" (or 'counterpoise') element to the handheld. Hams use a
>frequency slightly higher than fliers in the VHF spectrum, so the general
>comparison applies.
> The idea was to attach a wire by means of an alligator clip to
>the BNC exterior connector and array it outward from the antenna base at
>about 90deg (although I think 45 would improve horizontal radiation if the
>1/4wave whip is vertical). This does not work with a rubber duckie, but only
>1/4wave vert. The length of the wire is about 5% longer than the calculated
>1/4wave electrical length, and it seemed to add a verifiable percentage to
>the signal strength at a distance.
>Just a thought.
this does work for a handheld with the rubber-duck in place, for remote
mounting of the antenna, a bracket grounded to airframe will get as
good or better ground plane from the airplane. One of our bulkhead
female BNC connectors would work well to fabricate the extension
harness and antenna mounting bracket. . .
Bob . . .
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: NiCads and such |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:49 AM 4/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>I learned alot from the sites you showed. Do you know where a 1 tot 2
>milliamp charger can be purchased. What voltage should the 1 to 2 milliamp
>charger put out?
any voltage higher than the battery array. go get any size
wall-wart from Radio Shack. Measure it's open circuit voltage.
Subtract array voltage from open circuit voltage and multiply
by 1000. This is size of resistor you need to put in series
with the wall-wart to limit "trickle" charge to the battery array
to 1 milliamp.
Bob . . .
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Port to Com Radio |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:28 AM 4/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard"
><billbernard@worldnet.att.net>
>
>I asked the same question about the antenna for a hand held radio on
>another list and got an intriguing reply: the responder connected the hand
>held radio to the ELT antenna. (He appears to have disconnected the ELT
>from the antenna to use the hand held.)
>
>One brief experiment suggested that the ELT antenna would work, and
>provide a relatively simple solution to the antenna problem if there were
>some way to hook both transmitters to the same antenna.
Sure. An ELT antenna would work fine . . .
>Could some sort of splitter be used in this situation? One of the radios
>wil be turned off when the other is in use. Will the energy from the
>antenna lead make the innards of the 'other' radio unhappy, even if it is
>not functional?
No. Transmit splitters are very expensive and BIG . . .
>Also, I found Bob's drawing of a com port for a handheld. I think I
>understand how to build it, but I have some questions.
>
>1) Am I correct is assuming that this device functions like some sort of
>'interupt'? That is, the primary com radio is connected to the antenna
>UNTIL the handheld radio is plugged in, and then the handheld is connected
>to the antenna?
Yes . . .
>2) How is the jack on the end of the coax to the handheld wired? Center
>conductor to the tip and ground the shield?
Yes.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Port to Com Radio |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mauri Morin" <maurv8@bigsky.net>
Bill
Check out www.rv-8.com/IdeasProducts.htm and look at
King Antenna Adapter
This might be a solution
Mauri Morin
RV-8 Wings/Tanks (still)
Polson, Mt
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Bernard" <billbernard@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Port to Com Radio
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard"
<billbernard@worldnet.att.net>
>
> I asked the same question about the antenna for a hand held radio on
another list and got an intriguing reply: the responder connected the hand
held radio to the ELT antenna. (He appears to have disconnected the ELT from
the antenna to use the hand held.)
>
> One brief experiment suggested that the ELT antenna would work, and
provide a relatively simple solution to the antenna problem if there were
some way to hook both transmitters to the same antenna.
>
> Could some sort of splitter be used in this situation? One of the radios
wil be turned off when the other is in use. Will the energy from the antenna
lead make the innards of the 'other' radio unhappy, even if it is not
functional?
>
> Also, I found Bob's drawing of a com port for a handheld. I think I
understand how to build it, but I have some questions.
>
> 1) Am I correct is assuming that this device functions like some sort of
'interupt'? That is, the primary com radio is connected to the antenna UNTIL
the handheld radio is plugged in, and then the handheld is connected to the
antenna?
>
> 2) How is the jack on the end of the coax to the handheld wired? Center
conductor to the tip and ground the shield?
>
> Thanks
>
> Bill
>
>
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