Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:08 AM - ANR headset supply (Piers Herbert)
2. 04:56 AM - Re: Comm VS VOR antenna (Dennis O'Connor)
3. 06:37 AM - Re: Affordable time-delay (Mark Phillips)
4. 06:39 AM - Re: Z Diagrams (Joel Harding)
5. 06:43 AM - Re: Wig wag relay (Scott Bilinski)
6. 09:02 AM - Re: Z Diagrams (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 09:07 AM - Magnet on small access door ? (Gilles.Thesee)
8. 09:09 AM - Re: Z-14 Questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 09:11 AM - Re: ANR headset supply (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 09:15 AM - Re: Affordable time-delay (Phil Birkelbach)
11. 10:13 AM - Circuit protection question (Gilles.Thesee)
12. 03:22 PM - Re: Wig wag relay (Bob Kuc)
13. 03:32 PM - Z-15? (TimRhod@aol.com)
14. 04:16 PM - Re: Affordable time-delay (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 04:20 PM - Re: Magnet on small access door ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 06:32 PM - Re: Magnet on small access door ? (rondefly)
17. 07:10 PM - FYI (Eric M. Jones)
18. 09:09 PM - Quartz Hour Meters on Ebay (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | ANR headset supply |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Piers Herbert" <piers.herbert@ntlworld.com>
I would like to have a panel mount supply of 9 V for anr headsets. There are several
commercially available from companies like David Clarke or Headsets inc.
The question is can I make my own? I could easily make a 9V supply circuit from
a 3 pin regulator chip, but would this be suficient? I note that the Headsets
inc units contain a dc-dc converter to provide "isolaion". Why is this nescessary?
Piers
RV-8
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Comm VS VOR antenna |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor@chartermi.net>
Look up Jim Weir's site... He will show you the best method of having an
emergency port to the com antennas...
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey" <dump@relaypoint.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Comm VS VOR antenna
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeffrey" <dump@relaypoint.net>
>
> Ok, I saw Bob Archer's VOR antenna (asked where to see it in another post,
I
> really like it) now I have another question because of this post.
>
> Is it possible that you could create a switch for the BNC connector that
> hooks your handheld to the COM antenna so that you could switch between
the
> COM and the VOR antennas? Of course without lots of signal loss and
> noise??? ;) For some reason this just sounds messy.
>
> Jeff
> (RV8 Wings)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor@chartermi.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Comm VS VOR antenna
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor"
> <doconnor@chartermi.net>
> >
> > Minus 20dB for cross polarization is part of the signal loss I alluded
> to...
> >
> > Denny
> > K8DO
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <BobsV35B@aol.com>
> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Comm VS VOR antenna
> >
> >
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
> > >
> > > In a message dated 4/25/03 4:18:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > > doconnor@chartermi.net writes:
> > >
> > > > No.... The VOR antenna is resonated at a lower frequency than the
> > COM...
> > > > However, it will work as an emergency antenna for the handheld with
> some
> > > > signal loss....
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Comm and VOR antennas are the same right?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Good Afternoon,
> > >
> > > In addition, the comm signal is transmitted in a vertical mode. The
> > > receiving antenna will work best when it is vertical as well. The VOR
> > works
> > > in a horizontal plane, Therefore the VOR signal will be best received
by
> > an
> > > antenna oriented in the horizontal plane.
> > >
> > > Happy Skies,
> > >
> > > Old Bob
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Affordable time-delay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Hi Jon-
John Marzluf sent me a couple of small circuit boards that look like they
will work great for the purpose you describe- that's exactly what I plan to
do with them. He even wired one up with a "demo" arrangement of a switch to
activate it and an LED for output. It is adjustable with an on-board trimpot
for (IIRC) about 5-120 seconds and is about 3" square. The output is through
a small relay on the board if you want to isolate that circuit's power
input. It's gonna be a while before I actually get to put the gas in, but
they look promising so far. If you'd like, I could get the part# and a foto
(they are at home & I'm hard at work!! 8-) -thanks John for your
help!) Maybe John should offer these little dudes complete with the floats
and become another OBAM market supplier multimillionaire!
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips
Jon Finley wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jon Finley" <jon@finleyweb.net>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Looking thru the archives it appears that this topic has been discussed
> before but I couldn't find a clear answer.
>
> I am looking for what I think is called an "on-delay timer". My specific
> use is to control my low-fuel level light. I have a float type sensor.
> The fuel sloshing around causes the light to cycle. I would really like
> to install an on-delay timer/relay which requires the input signal to be
> "on" for 15 seconds or so (flexible here) before turning on the light.
> If the input signal is goes "off" at any point during the countdown, the
> timer is reset.
>
> Doing a web search turns up a ton of products. However; not being much
> of an electronic geek, I'm not sure which ones would work. So, if
> anyone knows of a product that would do this job (and is terribly
> expensive) please forward me some info. I have a 12v system and my low
> level light is an LED so don't need much capactity on the circuit.
>
> Thanks much!!
>
> Jon Finley
> N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 440 Hrs. TT - 0 Hrs Engine
> Apple Valley, Minnesota
> http://www.FinleyWeb.net/default.asp?id=96
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
> > Behalf Of KITFOXZ@aol.com
> > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:10 PM
> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Affordable time-delay
> >
> >
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 1/9/2003 3:00:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > ripsteel@edge.net writes:
> >
> > > Here's one for you gadget design junkies- I have reed type float
> > > switches in each tank that should close at about 1/3 fuel remaining
> > > (RV-6A) to turn on low fuel annunciator lamps. I'd like to
> > feed these
> > > with a time delay so they don't flicker continuously as
> > they transition
> > > from off to on- I'm thinking maybe a 10 sec. to 30 sec. delay would
> > > probably be suitable. I have looked for commercial timing
> > relays and
> > > their size, weight &price will take yer breath away! Is there a
> > > reasonably simple way to employ an IC type timer (555
> > chip?) - I don't
> > > pretend to understand this stuff and would prefer to get
> > the airplane
> > > finished than learn IC design &use! Maybe after it flies,
> > but would
> > > like to install this circuit as the system goes together.
> > >
> > > Thanks from The PossumWorks in TN
> > > Mark Phillips do not archive
>
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joel Harding <cajole76@ispwest.com>
Having encountered total silence, I would like to resubmit this for
your consideration.
I have a question about differences between wiring diagrams Z 11 and Z
13. One has a fuselink and the 5 A field circuit breaker between the
main bus and the master switch. The other has the circuit breaker
downstream of the master switch. Does it make any difference one way
or the other?
Also, I'm planning a small 4 to 5 A. H. battery to back up my #2
electronic ignition. I will probably locate it somewhere near the
instrument panel. Would there be a problem grounding it on the
firewall ground, when the main battery is grounded locally in the rear
fuselage?
And the last awe inspiring question of the day is, since there will
be a large number of ground wires coming off the back of the
instrument panel, does it make sense to combine them all with a
multiple tab ground and just run one wire to the firewall ground, to
reduce the size of the wire bundle?
Joel Harding
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wig wag relay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
I would look into a flasher unit for a semi tractor trailer.
At 08:32 PM 4/26/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1@tampabay.rr.com>
>
>In the low cost wig- wag system using automative flasher article, there is
>mention of a B&C SSF-1 relay or equal. What would be a comparative
>automotive flasher that I could use?
>
>Bob
>
>
Message 6
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>I have a question about differences between wiring diagrams Z 11 and Z
>13. One has a fuselink and the 5 A field circuit breaker between the
>main bus and the master switch. The other has the circuit breaker
>downstream of the master switch. Does it make any difference one way
>or the other?
both figures suggest extending the bus via a vulnerable
wire up to the alternator control switch. BOTH systems
suggest a 5A breaker in this power lead to accommodate the
modus-operandi of crowbar ov protection. Exact location
of breaker along the route is not terribly important as
long as wires leading up to the breaker are not at risk.
Risk is mitigated with the fusible link at the bus. Fusible
links are preferred to fuses because they have a very long
time constant compared to fuses and breakers . . . so that
if the crowbar system operates, only the breaker will open.
>Also, I'm planning a small 4 to 5 A. H. battery to back up my #2
>electronic ignition. I will probably locate it somewhere near the
>instrument panel. Would there be a problem grounding it on the
>firewall ground, when the main battery is grounded locally in the rear
>fuselage?
Ground it to the single point ground on the firewall.
>And the last awe inspiring question of the day is, since there will
> be a large number of ground wires coming off the back of the
>instrument panel, does it make sense to combine them all with a
>multiple tab ground and just run one wire to the firewall ground, to
>reduce the size of the wire bundle?
No. Every system should have its own ground wire to the single
point ground bus . . . else the single point ground is no longer
a single point ground.
>Joel Harding
>
>
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Magnet on small access door ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Hi Bob and all,
A friend proposes to lock a small access door on the top front of the
fuselage with a magnet , within one foot or so from the instrument panel.
Anyone around have tried this setup ? Are there any chances the compass will
be enfluenced by the magnet ?
Any workaround ?
Thanks in advance,
Gilles Thesee
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 Questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:04 PM 4/27/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
>
>Bob:
> I have been studying the Z-14 duel batt duel alt wiring diagram and have a
>few questions.
>1. Why is the hydraulic pump coming off the main battery contactor as opposed
>to the main power bus?
Hydraulic pumps take a lot of snort that's not practical
to supply from a fuse block, they also generate more noise
and it's better to have them drive from shortest practical
array of fat wires between pump and battery.
>2. Why is there a #2AWG between the main battery contactor and the crossfeed
>contactor when there is only a #4 between crossfeed and aux battery
>contactor?
Keep in mind that these drawings are to suggest ARCHITECTURES. Wire
sizes need to be considered for your particular situation. As
a general rule of thumb, if batteries are close to engine
then ALL fat wires can be 4AWG. If batteries are a long way from
engine, then fat wires may want to be 2AWG or even larger as in
case of some seaplanes.
>3. I am wiring a canard so I have substituted a #2AWG wire for the #4AWG
>shown between the main battery contactor and the starter contactor per Z-15.
>Same on the return Ground. Is this correct?
I presume your batteries are up front. All wiring up front between
batteries and all contactors can be 4AWG. The wire feeding the starter
and taking ground back to the engine should be 2AWG
>4. Should I also connect the two battery negatives with a #2 or is #4 still
>ok?
4AWG to single point ground is fine, then run on from ground to
engine with 2AWG.
>5. Z-15 two different diagrams show the panel ground connected to the #2 AWG
>ground wire and the other diagram shows the panel ground connected to the
>battery with a #4AWG. Any difference here or is it just preference?
Z-15B is not a good idea and will be revised at next revision
to bring battery and 2AWG engine grounds together at the
ground bus.
>6. The ground strap from engine to firewall ground calls for a braided
>strap. Could a #2 welding cable be used here as a substitute?
sure.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: ANR headset supply |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:05 AM 4/28/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Piers Herbert"
><piers.herbert@ntlworld.com>
>
>I would like to have a panel mount supply of 9 V for anr headsets. There
>are several commercially available from companies like David Clarke or
>Headsets inc.
>
>The question is can I make my own? I could easily make a 9V supply circuit
>from a 3 pin regulator chip, but would this be suficient?
Yes
>I note that the Headsets inc units contain a dc-dc converter to provide
>"isolaion". Why is this nescessary?
it isn't.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Affordable time-delay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
Go to Radio Shack and buy the little engineers handbook that they have on
the 555 timer IC. It has several circuits in there that will do what you
want. They are easy to build on a small prototype board and will cost you
less than 5 bucks. Not only that but you'll learn something valuable to
boot.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Finley" <jon@finleyweb.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Affordable time-delay
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jon Finley" <jon@finleyweb.net>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Looking thru the archives it appears that this topic has been discussed
> before but I couldn't find a clear answer.
>
> I am looking for what I think is called an "on-delay timer". My specific
> use is to control my low-fuel level light. I have a float type sensor.
> The fuel sloshing around causes the light to cycle. I would really like
> to install an on-delay timer/relay which requires the input signal to be
> "on" for 15 seconds or so (flexible here) before turning on the light.
> If the input signal is goes "off" at any point during the countdown, the
> timer is reset.
>
> Doing a web search turns up a ton of products. However; not being much
> of an electronic geek, I'm not sure which ones would work. So, if
> anyone knows of a product that would do this job (and is terribly
> expensive) please forward me some info. I have a 12v system and my low
> level light is an LED so don't need much capactity on the circuit.
>
> Thanks much!!
>
> Jon Finley
> N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 440 Hrs. TT - 0 Hrs Engine
> Apple Valley, Minnesota
> http://www.FinleyWeb.net/default.asp?id=96
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
> > Behalf Of KITFOXZ@aol.com
> > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:10 PM
> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Affordable time-delay
> >
> >
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 1/9/2003 3:00:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > ripsteel@edge.net writes:
> >
> > > Here's one for you gadget design junkies- I have reed type float
> > > switches in each tank that should close at about 1/3 fuel remaining
> > > (RV-6A) to turn on low fuel annunciator lamps. I'd like to
> > feed these
> > > with a time delay so they don't flicker continuously as
> > they transition
> > > from off to on- I'm thinking maybe a 10 sec. to 30 sec. delay would
> > > probably be suitable. I have looked for commercial timing
> > relays and
> > > their size, weight &price will take yer breath away! Is there a
> > > reasonably simple way to employ an IC type timer (555
> > chip?) - I don't
> > > pretend to understand this stuff and would prefer to get
> > the airplane
> > > finished than learn IC design &use! Maybe after it flies,
> > but would
> > > like to install this circuit as the system goes together.
> > >
> > > Thanks from The PossumWorks in TN
> > > Mark Phillips do not archive
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Circuit protection question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Hi Bob and all,
I started the wiring for real last week. No hassles except keeping those
wire coils clear. Oh, and a 'crimper elbow' !
Here is my question :
We're using some parts supplied by the kit manufacturer for the flaps
control and motors.
They say they wire with 16 AWG, despite the fact they use a 25 amp breaker.
My intention is to use a fuse, and fatter wires.
Does it make sense to use 14 AWG wires, since the 25 amp protection is only
there for the very momentary inrush current draw ?
And do I add a 18 AWG fuselink in case of faulted wire or shorted motor ?
Thanks,
Gilles Thesee
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Wig wag relay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1@tampabay.rr.com>
> about anything .1 or larger will work . . . if you have .1 uf, that's
fine.
>
Ok so I have those caps in place. Now the question is does it matter what
kind of caps they should be? A ceramic .1uF is rather small. My 10 uF is a
dipped tantalum style, while my .1 uf is larger and I believe a coated one.
Maybe I have the wrong type of cap on mine? should I go with the 1000v 1"
.1uf cap?
I did try the separate lead into the relay and it still acted the same way.
Bob
Message 13
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
Bob one point of clairification Is what you are describing below
essentially the Z-15 view C Ground system for seaplane?
5. Z-15 two different diagrams show the panel ground connected to the #2 AWG
>ground wire and the other diagram shows the panel ground connected to the
>battery with a #4AWG.=A0=A0 Any difference here or is it just=A0 preference?
=A0 Z-15B is not a good idea and will be revised at next revision
=A0 to bring battery and 2AWG engine grounds together at the
=A0 ground bus.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Affordable time-delay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> > Here's one for you gadget design junkies- I have reed type float
> > > switches in each tank that should close at about 1/3 fuel remaining
> > > (RV-6A) to turn on low fuel annunciator lamps. I'd like to
> > feed these
> > > with a time delay so they don't flicker continuously as
> > they transition
> > > from off to on- I'm thinking maybe a 10 sec. to 30 sec. delay would
> > > probably be suitable. I have looked for commercial timing
> > relays and
> > > their size, weight &price will take yer breath away! Is there a
> > > reasonably simple way to employ an IC type timer (555
> > chip?) - I don't
> > > pretend to understand this stuff and would prefer to get
> > the airplane
> > > finished than learn IC design &use! Maybe after it flies,
> > but would
> > > like to install this circuit as the system goes together.
> > >
> > > Thanks from The PossumWorks in TN
> > > Mark Phillips do not archive
>
What you're looking for is more than a simple timer . . . and
a brief look at the replies didn't pick up on what's needed.
A "flicker filter" is really easy to implement in a little
micro-controller for the lowest parts count . . . but unless
you have access to the programming hardware and skills
this could a low-return-on-investment approach. A pure
discrete component approach is illustrated at:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/Flicker_Filter.pdf
All the parts are available from Digikey. Timing
for turn-on and turn-off response is set by the
470K/22uF resistor/capacitor pairs. The constants
shown give you about 11 seconds of delay for uninterrupted
switch closure to turn the light on and the same delay
of uninterrupted switch opening to turn the light back
out.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Magnet on small access door ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:19 PM 4/28/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee"
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>Hi Bob and all,
>
>A friend proposes to lock a small access door on the top front of the
>fuselage with a magnet , within one foot or so from the instrument panel.
>Anyone around have tried this setup ? Are there any chances the compass will
>be enfluenced by the magnet ?
>Any workaround ?
A properly designed latch could probably work that
close to the panel without upsetting the compass. Does
he know how to do this? The magnet needs to reside in
a magnetic enclosure that minimizes leakage of flux
while the door is closed. A steel cup with the same
depth as magnet thickness is in order. A piece of steel
on the inside of the door should exactly close the
cup all around the periphery and should not have a lot
of overlap . . . diameter of door shunt is only slightly
larger than diameter of cup.
In any case, give it a try. It can't do worse than
make you figure out something else if it doesn't
work. Let us all know how it works out and send
pictures.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Magnet on small access door ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rondefly" <rondefly@pacbell.net>
Why don't you tell your friend to try touch latch, don't need a magnetic.
Ron Triano Quicker one Q-200, 90% Done with 90% to go
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Magnet on small access door ?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:19 PM 4/28/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee"
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>Hi Bob and all,
>
>A friend proposes to lock a small access door on the top front of the
>fuselage with a magnet , within one foot or so from the instrument panel.
>Anyone around have tried this setup ? Are there any chances the compass
will
>be enfluenced by the magnet ?
>Any workaround ?
A properly designed latch could probably work that
close to the panel without upsetting the compass. Does
he know how to do this? The magnet needs to reside in
a magnetic enclosure that minimizes leakage of flux
while the door is closed. A steel cup with the same
depth as magnet thickness is in order. A piece of steel
on the inside of the door should exactly close the
cup all around the periphery and should not have a lot
of overlap . . . diameter of door shunt is only slightly
larger than diameter of cup.
In any case, give it a try. It can't do worse than
make you figure out something else if it doesn't
work. Let us all know how it works out and send
pictures.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Ebay Item # 2526787231--- 12 Volt Turn & Slip Bank Indicator R.C. Allen
Message 18
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| Subject: | Quartz Hour Meters on Ebay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
see
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26442&item=2413197823
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
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