Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:07 AM - questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:08 AM - Re: Starter Contactor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:12 AM - Re: Odyssey PC625 Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:14 AM - Re: Z-14 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:18 AM - Re: JJN Current Limiters (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:20 AM - Re: BundleDeratingFactor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 06:26 AM - starter transients (Gary Casey)
8. 06:28 AM - Re: EXPbus (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 07:02 AM - Kudos to Bob (Fergus Kyle)
10. 07:21 AM - Re: falcon t&b (aronsond)
11. 07:26 AM - Re: starter transients (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 07:26 AM - Re: EXPbus (Robert Miller)
13. 07:35 AM - Re:lights (KahnSG@aol.com)
14. 08:10 AM - Insulated Window Butt Connectors (Edward O'Connor)
15. 09:15 AM - Re: falcon t (DAVID REEL)
16. 10:54 AM - Re: My camera on Ebay . . . (Shannon Knoepflein)
17. 12:58 PM - Re: questions (Peter Laurence)
18. 02:35 PM - Re: questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 03:18 PM - Re: My camera on Ebay . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 03:20 PM - Re: EXPbus (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 04:17 PM - Re: EXPbus (Robert Miller)
22. 05:10 PM - Re: EXPbus (Ralph)
23. 06:39 PM - Re: EXPbus (Steve J Hurlbut)
24. 07:15 PM - Re: EXPbus (Sam Hoskins)
25. 07:27 PM - Re: EXPbus (Kevin Horton)
26. 08:50 PM - Builder documentation on the Web-summary (David Carter)
27. 10:56 PM - Microair Radio-Xpdr Wire Harness (Rick Fogerson)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:05 PM 2/3/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Bob,
>My thoughts on the dual electronic ignition was to put one ignition on the
>battery bus and the other on the essential bus, if the wire from the
>battery contactor to the battery bus broke, I would still have an
>electronic ignition that would work. If both ignitions were put on the
>battery bus, would opening the essential bus alternate feed switch restore
>the battery bus?
E-bus alternate feed switch has nothing to do with the
battery bus. Battery bus is always hot irrespective of
the position of any switch.
>The alternator field c.b., in figure Z-11, what is the purpose of the
>fuselink when the wire has a 5a c.b. protecting it?
The 5A breaker is remotely located from the main bus.
There is a wire segment between the main bus and the
breaker that is not protected. Any protection we put there
needs to have a time constant much longer than the breaker
so that an ov trip doesn't open the upstream protection.
>With the dual alt/single battery design (figure Z-12,) should I connect
>the aux alt on/off switch to the same bolt as the master switch?
Yes, if you're using fuse blocks, you'll need to remote the
field breakers for both alternators and use fusible links
from the main bus feed bolt.
HOWEVER . . . Figure Z-12 is not recommended for new
design. Note that the main busses drive breakers. This
is recommended for adding a second alternator to an
existing system like on a Bonanza or C-210 . . . or
a homebuilt that's already configured with breakers
and 1960's architecture system. If you're starting
from scratch, you can do better.
>Finally, the essential bus is shown connecting to the main bus via a bolt,
>there is only one bolt on my 20 amp fuse block that I bought from B&C.
>Should I also connect this bus via the single bolt?
Yes, the bolt is long enough to stack multiple terminals
on it.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Starter Contactor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:49 AM 2/14/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
>
>I have an automotive engine with a solenoid controlled starter. I
>currently do not have a starter contactor. What is the purpose of the
>contactor? To remove high amp from bus? Or? Just wondering if while I'm
>modifying the wiring for OV protection if I should add a starter contactor
>and contactor engaged warning light..
see http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Odyssey PC625 Question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:50 PM 2/15/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
>Bob or anybody...
>
>I find myself the proud owner of 2 PC625's (It's a long story... :)) and I
>have coming shortly a Superior XP-IO360 engine. Is one of these at 625
>cranking amps sufficient for this engine or would I be better advised to go
>the two battery route and switch them in parallel for cranking? Of course
>this would add 13 lbs... Any and all opinions/facts are welcome.
Battery selection is mostly driven by CAPACITY requirements
to support your endurance bus and to have a low enough
internal impedance to deliver the very small dose of energy
required to get an engine going. You use typically less than
5% of a battery's capacity to get the engine going.
ONE PC625 is plenty of battery to crank and engine. There
a SMALLER batteries yet that are plenty to crank and engine.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:58 PM 2/15/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Casey <mikec@caseyspm.com>
>
>Bob,
>My RV7A will have a 200HP IO 360. I see that your recommended Engine
>switch has three positions, Prime - Boost - Off.
>
>I don't understand the difference between Prime and Boost?
>Walter
Boost only turns on pump only. Prime turns on both
pump and opens primer valve. You don't need a primer
valve on an injected engine.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: JJN Current Limiters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:50 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>I have 2 current limiters, a T-Tron JJN-70 and JJN-80 that I acquired some
>time ago to protect the b-lead from the battery. Some time has passed and
>I can no longer find the articles explaining the sizing of these devices.
>
>I now have a 40 amp alternator and am wondering if either of these current
>limiters is sized properly to protect the 40 amp alternator? Or would
>these be better suited for a 60 amp alternator?
Either will work for the 40A, use the 80A device for a 60A alternator.
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/anl/anlvsjjs.html
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: BundleDeratingFactor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:26 AM 2/16/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
>
>I'm having fun calculating the wire temperture rise using the methods of
>AC43-13 but don't know how to employ Figure 11-5 on page 11-31. For the
>right wing, I'm planning one 14awg landing light, one 18awg position
>light, and one 3 conductor 18awg shielded strobe wire, all three to be
>laid loosely inside the 3/4" plastic conduit Van sells. But I know a
>bundle derating factor of three can't be right because the wires aren't
>bundled closely together, the shielded wire actually bundles three wires,
>and the conduit restricts air circulation pretty severely because it's
>about 10' long. Is there a way to estimate the effects of these different
>factors, obtain an 'effective' number of wires in the bundle, and use the
>published derating curves which I assume apply to individual wires tie
>wrapped closely together in free air?
The current values shown on my wire table are already derated
for bundle service. The wire sizes you've cited will be just
fine.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | starter transients |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
Just as an anecdotal data point: I used to own a Cessna TR182 with a
24-volt system and King Silver Crown radios. Occasionally the radios would
"reset" when the gear motor cycled, losing their stored frequencies. This
would never happen when being turned off with the power switch. One could
assume that the voltage transient caused by the gear motor is similar but of
a lower amplitude than a starter motor. After checking for the integrity of
all the electrical system components I put a high-frequency scope on the
avionics buss and cycled the gear motor (with the engine off, assuming that
the alternator couldn't respond to rapid transients anyway. As Bob would
predict I found no voltage "spikes", but did find that the voltage dropped
from 24 to about 14 in a very few nanoseconds. My theory, one that wasn't
contradicted by King after a few tries on their part to fix the radios, was
that the rapid negative spike was entirely different from a power disconnect
in that the power lead was essentially being instantly shorted to ground.
Any filter caps in the power supply portion of the radio would therefore be
shorted, eliminating any chance for the microprocessors to shut down
gracefully. If the power line had a choke an opportunity for a resonance
could have been set up. Anyway, that's all I could figure out and the
problem wasn't fixed until we switched to Garmins. I could find no one else
with the same radio/airframe combination that had that problem. If I had a
sophisticated microprocessor-driven avionics system that's the only problem
I can imagine by leaving the avionics on while cranking the engine. The
code in the equipment might not be robust enough to handle a sudden
power-down during the start-up routine.
Gary Casey
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:51 PM 2/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PA-Glastar <paglastar@nationi.net>
>
>Bob, I was wondering how you were making out analyzing the
>Eggenfellner/EXPbus design? I'm not flying yet but I have my
>electrical design almost done using your Z-11a as the backbone.
>
>Randy Gaugler
I have about a half dozen piles of drawings sent to me
wherein people are trying to shoe-horn the EXP-Bus into
one of the z-drawings. I must confess, I'm not enthusiastic
about this. The result of any recommendations I might
make will be a compromise to architectures carefully
considered operational features . . . I think I'm going
to pass on this and all future deliberations about how
to make the EXP-Bus work better.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 9
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Bob,
Since I was the catalyst for this latest round of skirmishes on the
avionics bus, I want you to know how much I appreciate your advocacy
for the OBAM community. The energy and commitment you apply to
improving the state of the art in aviation electronics is awesome and
we all owe you a big debt of gratitude. Joel Harding
May I add my name to what I am sure is a growing list of those who wish they
had written the above?
Ferg, Europa A064
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "aronsond" <aronsond@pacbell.net>
Listers:
I have a noisy Falcon T&B from Van's. Have the rest of you found that this
unit sounds like a bearing is bad. It is 10X louder than my Citabria's
unit. Is it design or should I return it.
Dave Aronson
RV4 N504rv
At airport and racing to fly this month.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: starter transients |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:26 AM 5/7/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
>
>Just as an anecdotal data point: I used to own a Cessna TR182 with a
>24-volt system and King Silver Crown radios. Occasionally the radios would
>"reset" when the gear motor cycled, losing their stored frequencies. This
>would never happen when being turned off with the power switch. One could
>assume that the voltage transient caused by the gear motor is similar but of
>a lower amplitude than a starter motor. After checking for the integrity of
>all the electrical system components I put a high-frequency scope on the
>avionics buss and cycled the gear motor (with the engine off, assuming that
>the alternator couldn't respond to rapid transients anyway. As Bob would
>predict I found no voltage "spikes", but did find that the voltage dropped
>from 24 to about 14 in a very few nanoseconds. My theory, one that wasn't
>contradicted by King after a few tries on their part to fix the radios, was
>that the rapid negative spike was entirely different from a power disconnect
>in that the power lead was essentially being instantly shorted to ground.
>Any filter caps in the power supply portion of the radio would therefore be
>shorted, eliminating any chance for the microprocessors to shut down
>gracefully. If the power line had a choke an opportunity for a resonance
>could have been set up. Anyway, that's all I could figure out and the
>problem wasn't fixed until we switched to Garmins. I could find no one else
>with the same radio/airframe combination that had that problem. If I had a
>sophisticated microprocessor-driven avionics system that's the only problem
>I can imagine by leaving the avionics on while cranking the engine. The
>code in the equipment might not be robust enough to handle a sudden
>power-down during the start-up routine.
>
>Gary Casey
Good detective work. Yup, what you've discovered is a shortcoming
in the wording of the DO-160 requirements for this situation.
Consider the following:
DO-160D, paragraph 16.5.4.3
"a. Definition - Voltages may momentarily vary below nominal for
any duration up to seven seconds"
"b. Requirement - The equipment, when exposed to this condition
shall operate within the applicable equipment performance
standards when returned to normal operating voltage range."
"With the equipment operating at nominal rated voltage, decrease
the input DC voltage to 6v for seven seconds. With the equipment
still energized, adjust the input DC voltage to nominal rated
value and DETERMINE COMPLIANCE WITH APPLICABLE EQUIPMENT
PERFORMANCE STANDARDS"
Doing this test as described is pretty silly . . . wonder
where that 7 seconds number came from. I'll be it's a wash-
over from cranking turbine engines where single spool engines
can put a very long, high current load on a battery. Never
mind that there are NO 14v turbine powered aircraft and
never mind the obvious fact that power interruptions can
(1) have a RANGE of times from 0 to whatever value you want to
pick and (2) have a variation of rise/fall times. In fact,
the wording of the definition says "UP TO SEVEN SECONDS".
This phrase clearly suggests a range of 0 - 7 seconds. Another
loophole in this test requirement is the establishment of
APPLICABLE EQUIPMENT PERFORMANCE STANDARDS. The manufacturer
gets to influence these. There are legal variations
that could be written into their "standards" that would
mask this effect.
I have personally interpreted this paragraph of DO-160 to
mean that I should account for brown-out conditions with
a suite of possible amplitudes, durations and wave-shapes
to explore my product's ability to ignore or be relatively
unaffected by such events. This would embrace the stimulus
you observed in the measurements you cited above.
It's this poor wording of DO-160 that prompts many folk
to ask for avionics bus protection . . . not because
of potential hazard to their product due to spikes but
erratic behavior due to brownout. They do 16.5.4.3
exactly as stated and pronounce their product "qualified"
and then weasel-word their way around obvious shortcomings
in their design.
DO-160 is a powerful and useful document but was, after
all, crafted by a committee and then probably edited
by bureaucrats and stenographers. It's not without flaws.
I think I'll craft a letter to RTCA suggesting that
this paragraph be revised to be more meaningful
and representative of real life on the bus of an
airplane (or any other vehicle).
Bob . . .
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Miller <rmiller3@earthlink.net>
Dear Bob:
Planning to go with Eggenfellner Sub....
The functionality of the electrical design, and redundancy, are attractive.
But I wish the EXPbus itself could be eliminated, and still achieve this.
I thought, perhaps, in some earlier postings on this list, an electrical system
for that
installation might be developed that provided that redundancy and functionality
without the
EXPbus and perhaps with greater simplicity?
I wonder if you are working on such a design?
Thanks for all you've taught so many of us.
Robert Miller
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 07:51 PM 2/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PA-Glastar <paglastar@nationi.net>
> >
> >Bob, I was wondering how you were making out analyzing the
> >Eggenfellner/EXPbus design? I'm not flying yet but I have my
> >electrical design almost done using your Z-11a as the backbone.
> >
> >Randy Gaugler
>
> I have about a half dozen piles of drawings sent to me
> wherein people are trying to shoe-horn the EXP-Bus into
> one of the z-drawings. I must confess, I'm not enthusiastic
> about this. The result of any recommendations I might
> make will be a compromise to architectures carefully
> considered operational features . . . I think I'm going
> to pass on this and all future deliberations about how
> to make the EXP-Bus work better.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> --------------------------------------------
> ( Knowing about a thing is different than )
> ( understanding it. One can know a lot )
> ( and still understand nothing. )
> ( C.F. Kettering )
> --------------------------------------------
>
Message 13
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KahnSG@aol.com
The specs. for H4351 and H4352 headlights are:
Part no. volts watts rated life
H4351 12.8 65 w 320 hrs.
H4352 12.8 55 w 1000 hrs.
There was no spec. for candle power but other halogen headlights that draw 55
w. are rated at 24,000 to 30,000 cp, and 65 w. 28,000 to 40,000 cp.
Steve
Springfield Auto Parts Co., Inc.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Insulated Window Butt Connectors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Edward O'Connor" <EdwardOConnor@compuserve.com>
I purchased some Butt connectors at Sun n Fun (Clear) for small wires
AWA 20-24. Since then I have been trying to find a squeezer die or
crimper for them at a reasonable price. They are shown in the new
Wicks Catalog Page 135 with a part # B1841BN. Wicks also lists a low
cost crimper down to #22 but not for #24. It might work but has anyone
used it before? The red position on the Pro Crimper I have will not
squeeze them tight. Thanks
Ed O'Connor/RV-8/Instruments/Sandy Creek Airpark/Panama City Fl
Message 15
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
If anyone out there thinks radio noise from a turn & bank indicator is going to
be a problem, just wait until you have to try flying partial panel in an emergency.
The Dynon EFIS provides a real backup considering that my own, and I would
guess most people's, partial panel skills are lethally rusty. Yes it's 2
grand and not IFR certified, but it's just the ticket for emergency backup in
a VFR panel. I'd toss the turn and bank.
Dave Reel - RV8A
Message 16
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| Subject: | My camera on Ebay . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann@kyol.net>
Bob, can I make a recommendation? I would highly suggest you look at
the Cybershot cameras from Sony instead of the CD1000 you are looking
at. First off, I don't even think the CD1000 is produced anymore, which
means it is already out of date. I think the CD500 is the latest model
in the CD series. However, I think you'll find the CD and FD series
very large and cumbersome. I used to own both, first the FD-91 (top of
the line floppy disk one, 1Mp) and then the CD1000 (2Mp). They are just
so big and bulky, and they really don't have the specs of the new
cameras that cost the same. Now I have the Cybershot 707 which is 5Mp
and uses Memorysticks. I highly highly recommend this camera. I love
it. The things it will do will amaze you.
The new 717 has just been released (it supports the memory stick PRO,
which holds 1Gb), and the price has dropped to 799. I'm sure you can
find lots of 707 at decent prices now. I'd even sell mine to upgrade to
the new model that takes the 1Gb memory stick.
Just something to think about. I highly recommend the 707 or 717
(unless you are getting a killer deal on the cd1000)
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann@kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: My camera on Ebay . . .
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
I'm planning to do LOT more media presentations and publishing
best done with high quality digital photography. After 45+
years I'm getting clean out of the chemical photo business.
Thought I would miss it when I upgraded to a new Canon EOS
a couple of years ago and sold all my darkroom equipment.
I ran a few rolls of film that the local one-hour place
processed to negatives for me for $3.00 a roll. Used a scanner
to digitize the negatives. Really good results but pretty
clumsy and slow turnaround. Found that 90% of my photo needs
were covered with the Mavica . . . and if I move up a couple
more model steps in the Mavica series, the digital route
will cover 100% of my needs.
Soooo . . . if anyone is interested in a nearly new 35mm
camera, they're welcome to take a peek at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2927709307
I'm planning on ordering a new Mavica CD1000 next week.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 17
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Peter Laurence <dr.laurence@mbdi.org>
Bob,
I'm a little puzzeled by this string:
> HOWEVER . . . Figure Z-12 is not recommended for new
> design. Note that the main busses drive breakers. This
> is recommended for adding a second alternator to an
> existing system like on a Bonanza or C-210 . . . or
> a homebuilt that's already configured with breakers
> and 1960's architecture system. If you're starting
> from scratch, you can do better.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> Figure Z-12 is the schematic you suggested for the Velocity XL ( starting
from scratch) utilizing a single battery ,60A and the B&C 20A alt.
How could I have done better?
Peter
Message 18
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|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:58 PM 5/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Peter Laurence <dr.laurence@mbdi.org>
>
>Bob,
>
>I'm a little puzzeled by this string:
>
> > HOWEVER . . . Figure Z-12 is not recommended for new
> > design. Note that the main busses drive breakers. This
> > is recommended for adding a second alternator to an
> > existing system like on a Bonanza or C-210 . . . or
> > a homebuilt that's already configured with breakers
> > and 1960's architecture system. If you're starting
> > from scratch, you can do better.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> > Figure Z-12 is the schematic you suggested for the Velocity XL ( starting
>from scratch) utilizing a single battery ,60A and the B&C 20A alt.
>How could I have done better?
Figure Z-14 is better. If you have two alternators, either one
of which depends on a battery to keep running, then having a
single battery puts the whole system at risk for loss of
connection to the battery. An aux alternator diving the
main bus of a one battery system is the obvious upgrade to
the carved-in-stone system on a certified ship. Now, if you
have Figure Z-12 installed, you are head and shoulders above
most single engine certified ships flying for overall system
reliability. There are probably several hundred Bonanza
and C-210 pilots breathing a lot easier now that there is
a reliable replacement for the piece-of-!#$@# stand-by
generator that they just took off their airplane. So they
too have enjoyed a quantum jump in system reliability
for having the second alternator. Soooo . . . if the
AeroElectric Connection had never come along and you
had wired your Velocity like a C-172, you probably wouldn't
be worried in the least . . . or at least no worse than
if you were flying around in a stock Cessna. Now that
you have two alternators, you've got the best that RAC,
Piper or Mooney can offer in their finest S.E. offerings.
Bottom line is, if you have Z-12 up and running, I'd leave
it alone. It's a fine system. If we had some conversation
about it and you went went with Z-12 in lieu of Z-14
there must have been some consideration of weight of
two batteries or some issue with additional complexity.
Z-12 is VERY user friendly . . . it autoswitches and
annunciates a shift to standby alternator operations
if the main alternator fails. Lots of folks including
the FAA really like that feature.
None the less, if one seeks the very best we know how
to do today, Z-14 with consideration of spreading
critical items over two TOTALLY INDEPENDENT busses is the
way to do it. I know of NO CERTIFIED GA aircraft that
can match this reliability for independent generation and
distribution of power to flight critical systems . . .
$million$ bizjets go though all kinds of monkey-motion
to achieve the system reliability that is probably not
as good as Figure Z-14.
Bob . . .
Message 19
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| Subject: | My camera on Ebay . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:53 PM 5/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shannon Knoepflein"
><kycshann@kyol.net>
>
>Bob, can I make a recommendation? I would highly suggest you look at
>the Cybershot cameras from Sony instead of the CD1000 you are looking
>at. First off, I don't even think the CD1000 is produced anymore, which
>means it is already out of date. I think the CD500 is the latest model
>in the CD series. However, I think you'll find the CD and FD series
>very large and cumbersome. I used to own both, first the FD-91 (top of
>the line floppy disk one, 1Mp) and then the CD1000 (2Mp). They are just
>so big and bulky, and they really don't have the specs of the new
>cameras that cost the same. Now I have the Cybershot 707 which is 5Mp
>and uses Memorysticks. I highly highly recommend this camera. I love
>it. The things it will do will amaze you.
>
>The new 717 has just been released (it supports the memory stick PRO,
>which holds 1Gb), and the price has dropped to 799. I'm sure you can
>find lots of 707 at decent prices now. I'd even sell mine to upgrade to
>the new model that takes the 1Gb memory stick.
>
>Just something to think about. I highly recommend the 707 or 717
>(unless you are getting a killer deal on the cd1000)
I've looked at the stick memory cameras and will eventually
go that route. I usually buy upgrades at the tail end of
market on a product. You get a lot more for your money that
way.
I got spoiled with the 14x optical zoom on the current
digital camera (FD91). I may keep it out at RAC . . . we have
digital cameras all over the place guarded by folks who
are not always easy to find. I'd rather supply my own
camera. The 1000 is older than the 500 but at least has
a 10x optical zoom. It's CD writing system is not as
handy as the floppy for handing images to folks in real
time which is another reason I'll keep the FD91 around.
Size isn't really a big issue for me. I've got a nearly
antique Olympus XA2 for pocket-sized snap shots. When I've
got business photos to do, a whole new criteria kicks
in. May end up with something different but for now,
there are several CD1000's on ebay I'm tracking. I
appreciate your input!
Bob . . .
Message 20
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:28 AM 5/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Miller
><rmiller3@earthlink.net>
>
>Dear Bob:
>
>Planning to go with Eggenfellner Sub....
>The functionality of the electrical design, and redundancy, are attractive.
>But I wish the EXPbus itself could be eliminated, and still achieve this.
>
>I thought, perhaps, in some earlier postings on this list, an electrical
>system for that
>installation might be developed that provided that redundancy and
>functionality without the
>EXPbus and perhaps with greater simplicity?
>I wonder if you are working on such a design?
>
>Thanks for all you've taught so many of us.
>
>Robert Miller
What does the Exp-Bus do for you that one of the
Z-figures does not?
Bob . . .
Message 21
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Miller <rmiller3@earthlink.net>
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
> What does the Exp-Bus do for you that one of the
> Z-figures does not?
>
> Bob . . .
>
Yes... that's it exactly.
I do wish to eliminate the EXPbus (just can't make myself comfortable with using
it)
The functionality of the electrical system hammered out for the E-Sub installation
guide
provides:
1. Redundant supply, using two batteries ... for an engine that must have electrical
supply
to run - including for processing unit
2. Automatic switching-in of back-up fuel pump, if fuel pressure were to fall,
using
"fail-over relay"... pilot would only know this has happened because of annunciatior.
3. An "essential Bus"
I agree that the Z designs are able to provide much of this, and probably be more
robust in
the process. I guess what I am asking is for someone (more knowledgeable than
I) to sketch
out the equivalent of the electrical guide for the E-Sub as beautifully done by
Gary, except
not using the EXPbus.
Robert
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 10:28 AM 5/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Miller
> ><rmiller3@earthlink.net>
> >
> >Dear Bob:
> >
> >Planning to go with Eggenfellner Sub....
> >The functionality of the electrical design, and redundancy, are attractive.
> >But I wish the EXPbus itself could be eliminated, and still achieve this.
> >
> >I thought, perhaps, in some earlier postings on this list, an electrical
> >system for that
> >installation might be developed that provided that redundancy and
> >functionality without the
> >EXPbus and perhaps with greater simplicity?
> >I wonder if you are working on such a design?
> >
> >Thanks for all you've taught so many of us.
> >
> >Robert Miller
>
> What does the Exp-Bus do for you that one of the
> Z-figures does not?
>
> Bob . . .
Message 22
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ralph <rdf1del1@yahoo.com>
If I can pipe in on this thread, all the features that you have described are easily
accomplish using the Z designs with the addition of a low fuel pressure
switch attached to a fuel pump relay, this will give you the switch over feature
you were asking about. What the expbus will not do is give you flexability
in the future to add or subtract systems as your aircraft evolves. We live in
an era of rapid change therefore flexability is vital. Ralph
Robert Miller <rmiller3@earthlink.net> wrote:--> AeroElectric-List message posted
by: Robert Miller
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
> What does the Exp-Bus do for you that one of the
> Z-figures does not?
>
> Bob . . .
>
Yes... that's it exactly.
I do wish to eliminate the EXPbus (just can't make myself comfortable with using
it)
The functionality of the electrical system hammered out for the E-Sub installation
guide
provides:
1. Redundant supply, using two batteries ... for an engine that must have electrical
supply
to run - including for processing unit
2. Automatic switching-in of back-up fuel pump, if fuel pressure were to fall,
using
"fail-over relay"... pilot would only know this has happened because of annunciatior.
3. An "essential Bus"
I agree that the Z designs are able to provide much of this, and probably be more
robust in
the process. I guess what I am asking is for someone (more knowledgeable than I)
to sketch
out the equivalent of the electrical guide for the E-Sub as beautifully done by
Gary, except
not using the EXPbus.
Robert
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
> At 10:28 AM 5/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Miller
> >
> >
> >Dear Bob:
> >
> >Planning to go with Eggenfellner Sub....
> >The functionality of the electrical design, and redundancy, are attractive.
> >But I wish the EXPbus itself could be eliminated, and still achieve this.
> >
> >I thought, perhaps, in some earlier postings on this list, an electrical
> >system for that
> >installation might be developed that provided that redundancy and
> >functionality without the
> >EXPbus and perhaps with greater simplicity?
> >I wonder if you are working on such a design?
> >
> >Thanks for all you've taught so many of us.
> >
> >Robert Miller
>
> What does the Exp-Bus do for you that one of the
> Z-figures does not?
>
> Bob . . .
---------------------------------
Message 23
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve J Hurlbut" <sjhdcl@kingston.net>
Can someone point me in the right direction to learn more about "Z designs"?
Steve
Rv7A
Eggenfellner Subaru
Exp Bus
Wiring all done
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Miller" <rmiller3@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EXPbus
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Miller
<rmiller3@earthlink.net>
>
> "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>
> > What does the Exp-Bus do for you that one of the
> > Z-figures does not?
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
>
> Yes... that's it exactly.
> I do wish to eliminate the EXPbus (just can't make myself comfortable
with using it)
>
> The functionality of the electrical system hammered out for the E-Sub
installation guide
> provides:
> 1. Redundant supply, using two batteries ... for an engine that must have
electrical supply
> to run - including for processing unit
> 2. Automatic switching-in of back-up fuel pump, if fuel pressure were to
fall, using
> "fail-over relay"... pilot would only know this has happened because of
annunciatior.
> 3. An "essential Bus"
>
> I agree that the Z designs are able to provide much of this, and probably
be more robust in
> the process. I guess what I am asking is for someone (more knowledgeable
than I) to sketch
> out the equivalent of the electrical guide for the E-Sub as beautifully
done by Gary, except
> not using the EXPbus.
>
> Robert
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >
> > At 10:28 AM 5/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Miller
> > ><rmiller3@earthlink.net>
> > >
> > >Dear Bob:
> > >
> > >Planning to go with Eggenfellner Sub....
> > >The functionality of the electrical design, and redundancy, are
attractive.
> > >But I wish the EXPbus itself could be eliminated, and still achieve
this.
> > >
> > >I thought, perhaps, in some earlier postings on this list, an
electrical
> > >system for that
> > >installation might be developed that provided that redundancy and
> > >functionality without the
> > >EXPbus and perhaps with greater simplicity?
> > >I wonder if you are working on such a design?
> > >
> > >Thanks for all you've taught so many of us.
> > >
> > >Robert Miller
> >
> > What does the Exp-Bus do for you that one of the
> > Z-figures does not?
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>
Message 24
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@globaleyes.net>
Allow me...
Buy bob's book, the AeroElectric connection. Best $35 you will ever spend.
It has all the Zzzzzs, and much much more.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
Sam
Jusst completing re-wiring my Quickie Q-200
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
J Hurlbut
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EXPbus
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve J Hurlbut"
<sjhdcl@kingston.net>
Can someone point me in the right direction to learn more about "Z designs"?
Steve
Rv7A
Eggenfellner Subaru
Exp Bus
Wiring all done
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Miller" <rmiller3@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EXPbus
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Miller
<rmiller3@earthlink.net>
>
> "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>
> > What does the Exp-Bus do for you that one of the
> > Z-figures does not?
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
>
> Yes... that's it exactly.
> I do wish to eliminate the EXPbus (just can't make myself comfortable
with using it)
>
> The functionality of the electrical system hammered out for the E-Sub
installation guide
> provides:
> 1. Redundant supply, using two batteries ... for an engine that must have
electrical supply
> to run - including for processing unit
> 2. Automatic switching-in of back-up fuel pump, if fuel pressure were to
fall, using
> "fail-over relay"... pilot would only know this has happened because of
annunciatior.
> 3. An "essential Bus"
>
> I agree that the Z designs are able to provide much of this, and probably
be more robust in
> the process. I guess what I am asking is for someone (more knowledgeable
than I) to sketch
> out the equivalent of the electrical guide for the E-Sub as beautifully
done by Gary, except
> not using the EXPbus.
>
> Robert
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >
> > At 10:28 AM 5/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Miller
> > ><rmiller3@earthlink.net>
> > >
> > >Dear Bob:
> > >
> > >Planning to go with Eggenfellner Sub....
> > >The functionality of the electrical design, and redundancy, are
attractive.
> > >But I wish the EXPbus itself could be eliminated, and still achieve
this.
> > >
> > >I thought, perhaps, in some earlier postings on this list, an
electrical
> > >system for that
> > >installation might be developed that provided that redundancy and
> > >functionality without the
> > >EXPbus and perhaps with greater simplicity?
> > >I wonder if you are working on such a design?
> > >
> > >Thanks for all you've taught so many of us.
> > >
> > >Robert Miller
> >
> > What does the Exp-Bus do for you that one of the
> > Z-figures does not?
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>
Message 25
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
Steve,
The downloadable materials section on Bob Nuckolls' web site is a
good place to start.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html
His drawings are in Appendix Z to the Aeroelectric Connection that he
sells. Appendix Z can be downloaded at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev10/z10.pdf
Also read:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/allelect.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/All_Electric/allelect.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/failtoll.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusad.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Carling_Micro/Carling_Micro.pdf
The Aeroelectric Connection is described at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/pub/pub.html
It is a very worthwhile purchase, but it does take some time and
effort to read and digest it.
Kevin
At 9:30 PM -0400 5/7/03, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve J Hurlbut"
><sjhdcl@kingston.net>
>
>Can someone point me in the right direction to learn more about "Z designs"?
>
>Steve
>Rv7A
>Eggenfellner Subaru
>Exp Bus
>Wiring all done
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Robert Miller" <rmiller3@earthlink.net>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EXPbus
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Miller
><rmiller3@earthlink.net>
>>
>> "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>>
>>
>> > What does the Exp-Bus do for you that one of the
>> > Z-figures does not?
>> >
>> > Bob . . .
>> >
>>
>> Yes... that's it exactly.
>> I do wish to eliminate the EXPbus (just can't make myself comfortable
>with using it)
>>
>> The functionality of the electrical system hammered out for the E-Sub
>installation guide
>> provides:
>> 1. Redundant supply, using two batteries ... for an engine that must have
>electrical supply
>> to run - including for processing unit
>> 2. Automatic switching-in of back-up fuel pump, if fuel pressure were to
>fall, using
>> "fail-over relay"... pilot would only know this has happened because of
>annunciatior.
>> 3. An "essential Bus"
>>
>> I agree that the Z designs are able to provide much of this, and probably
>be more robust in
>> the process. I guess what I am asking is for someone (more knowledgeable
>than I) to sketch
>> out the equivalent of the electrical guide for the E-Sub as beautifully
>done by Gary, except
>> not using the EXPbus.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>> >
>> > At 10:28 AM 5/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>> > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Miller
>> > ><rmiller3@earthlink.net>
>> > >
>> > >Dear Bob:
>> > >
>> > >Planning to go with Eggenfellner Sub....
>> > >The functionality of the electrical design, and redundancy, are
>attractive.
>> > >But I wish the EXPbus itself could be eliminated, and still achieve
>this.
>> > >
>> > >I thought, perhaps, in some earlier postings on this list, an
>electrical
>> > >system for that
>> > >installation might be developed that provided that redundancy and
>> > >functionality without the
>> > >EXPbus and perhaps with greater simplicity?
>> > >I wonder if you are working on such a design?
>> > >
>> > >Thanks for all you've taught so many of us.
>> > >
>> > >Robert Miller
>> >
>> > What does the Exp-Bus do for you that one of the
>> > Z-figures does not?
>> >
>> > Bob . . .
>>
>>
>
>
Message 26
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"RV-list" <rv-list@matronics.com>,
"aeroelectric-list" <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Builder documentation on the Web-summary |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
I received 13 excellent, helpful replies to my request for "how to create drawings,
sketches, & tables viewable on a web site". Thank you all.
Here's a summary of what I learned:
1. Drawings made by CAD programs (Autocad, Intellicad-an Autocad "full features
clone" (I have Airplane PDQ which has full Intellicad embedded):
a. File, Export to File, in the Save As box navigate to the desired folder,
use or change the file name, then go to File Type & scroll down to & select .bmp;
that all disappears and you are back in Intellicad with the "Selection Menu"
box popped up - click "select all" then press "Enter" (a non-intuitive response
to a command line question) and in a short moment the conversion is completed.
b. Then use Paint (MSPAINT) to open the file & immediately Save As a .jpg
Everyone with Windows has Microsoft's "Paint" for this .bmp to .jpg conversion.
And everyone with Windows has Kodak's "Imaging" program that views
.jpgs, plus .jpg files/images are imbedded directly into aweb page and thus viewable
by a browser.
(interesting side note: My "Imaging" pgm won't let me save anything as .jpg
. . . weird.)
2. Non-cad drawings and sketches (fuel system, simple electrical schematics or
wire diagrams, etc)
a. Hand draw and color sketches and simply scan them as .jpg files to insert
into web page; or,
b. Use "Paint" (MSPAINT.EXE in Programs, Accessories) for Sketches -
c. Excel has a "drawing" mode with lots of features.
- Another lister several months ago shared how he used Excel to "draw"
a very neat electrical schematic.
- My impression is that one would be able to "draw" a neater, more detailed
drawing than using PAINT - maybe easier, too, since Exel has more drawing
features than the rudimentary lines, rectangle, and "free hand with a mouse"
of PAINT.
3. Lists/tables created in Excel:
"File", "Save as" and select .html as file type; or "File", "Save as Web Page"
and navigate through the pop-ups.
- This isn't a .jpg but it works - displayed nicely.
-- However, if I want to control how it displays, I think I'd have
to spend extra time to gain a lot more knowledge of HTML than I currently have
- When I viewed this file in my browser and clicked View, Source, it was a
long complex document, not like a single line entry for an anchor tag to reference
a single .jpg image.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Shertz suggested exporting files as .gif. I tried that on an Intellicad drawing
and it displayed as a black rectangle, without the colored lines of the
drawing. I can't say more about use of .gif. What programs will display it?
Other tips (summary listing):
1. Eric M. Jones: If you have an interest in CAD, please see http://www.tenlinks.com/CAD/products/free/cad.htm. This is a repository of all things in free cad, and add-ons too
2. Chris Good: Powerpoint has an "export to html" function that creates the pages
on the web site.
3. Ernest Christley: Try "The Gimp". There is a version for Windo[ws] <snip>
It's a Photoshop wannabe, that will cost you exactly $0. You'll be able to work
on the JPG files and do lots of other neat things if you'll just spend a few
hours with the included documentation. As a bonus, the JPG files it produces
tend to be about 1/4th the size of what my digital camera program produces.
4. Dale Smith: "jpeg optimizer" will trim your photos' file size literally to any size you like, all the while showing you in a window what the downsized picture file looks like! ... it's shareware located for download on CNet at: http://download.com.com/3000-2192-9623164.html
- File sizes a third of the original show with almost negligible differences.
If it does degrade, just kick it up a few percent. You don't need to re-size
most pics down to enjoy the benefits, but cropping out the unneeded always
helps keep the filesize in check.
5. Rob Housman: Use "FinePrint" to save the file in Adobe Acrobat's pdf format. Go to www.fineprint.com and download the free version of that program. [ This sounds like one to get familiar with. ]
6. Dan Checkoway: There are plenty of forums and self-teach web sites out there for web development. See http://www.w3schools.com, for example. [ I went to this and will use it as my primary learning tool for web stuff.]
7. Joshua Siler: Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator, with a tablet input device,
are the
best ways to do this [sketches]. However they are quite expensive.
- Try Paint Shop Pro 8.0 - you can find it at http://www.download.com . It will let you create an
image, and then you can save it as a file format that windows can read.
David Carter
RV-6 (into first wiring - to tail lights; started my "Electrical System Loads by
Phase of Flight" spreadsheet; needing to sketch 13B rotary engine cooling system
design variations for peer review) (learning to document my work and "systems"
somewhere besides my "Word Perfect" word processor for DOS)
Message 27
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| Subject: | Microair Radio-Xpdr Wire Harness |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
Hi Bob,
Are you going to be selling wiring harness's for the Microair radio or xpdr anytime
soon? Also, the xpdr itself?
Rick Fogerson
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