Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:59 AM - Re: Circuit protection question (Gilles.Thesee)
2. 03:08 AM - Circuit protection question follow on (Gilles.Thesee)
3. 05:11 AM - Subject: Re: Source for Brass Bolt (William Bernard)
4. 07:11 AM - Re: Source for Brass Bolt (Jim Oke)
5. 08:42 AM - Tach P-lead feed (Neil Clayton)
6. 08:45 AM - DPDT relay (Treff, Arthur)
7. 08:55 AM - Re: Circuit protection question follow on (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 08:57 AM - Re: Source for Brass Bolt (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 09:00 AM - Re: LR3B Warning Light (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 09:01 AM - Shielding of Alternator and Magneto Wires (MikeEasley@aol.com)
11. 09:12 AM - Re: Circuit protection question (Phil Birkelbach)
12. 09:12 AM - Re: Whelen strobe circuit current draw and grounding (Shaun Simpkins)
13. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: Whelen strobe circuit current draw and grounding (Dennis O'Connor)
14. 10:30 AM - Re: Whelen strobe circuit current draw and grounding (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 10:59 AM - Documentation methods-CAD pgm to plot data, then print .pdf (David Carter)
16. 11:52 AM - Wig wag relay (Bob Kuc)
17. 12:00 PM - Re: Shielding of Alternator and Magneto (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 12:02 PM - Re: 10519 D'Amico (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 01:15 PM - Re: DPDT relay (RSwanson)
20. 01:33 PM - Alt Field Trip (Rick Caldwell)
21. 03:18 PM - Re: Documentation methods-CAD pgm to plot data, then print .pdf (Rob Housman)
22. 04:57 PM - Re: Alt Field Trip (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 07:33 PM - Documentation methods to print .pdf (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 09:28 PM - Re: Z-13 and Dual Electronic Ignitions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 09:40 PM - Re: Documentation methods to print .pdf (David Carter)
26. 11:25 PM - Re: Whelen strobe current draw (Bill Irvine)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Circuit protection question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> > > They say they wire with 16 AWG, despite the fact they use a 25 amp
> >breaker.
>
> The flap system on a King Air doesn't draw
> that much power. This doesn't sound like the
> folks who did the kit backed up their suggestions
> with any research.
>
> > >
> > > My intention is to use a fuse, and fatter wires.
> > > Does it make sense to use 14 AWG wires, since the 25 amp protection is
> >only
> > > there for the very momentary inrush current draw ?
> > > And do I add a 18 AWG fuselink in case of faulted wire or shorted
motor ?
>
> No, fuses are always MUCH faster than breakers and
> faster still than fusible links. Wire it with 16AWG
> and fuse it at 10A and go fly. I'll bet you don't pop
> the 10A fuse. Try flying for awhile on a 7A fuse. I'll
> bet it doesn't pop either.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob,
Thanks for answering.
Our problem is, we'd like to eliminate the risk of nuisance trip.
In the landing position the flaps are VERY powerful, and in case of failure
to retract in a go around we'd be in trouble for real.
They are using 4 small 35 watt Bosch motors that are rated at 10 amps
nominal current each, according to Bosch's scarce documentation.
They are using a similart motor for the pitch trim and they use to protect
the trim circuit with a 10 amp breaker.
Seems a lot of amps, but we are stuck with the motors.
Now since I told him the fuses are faster than the breakers, my friend is
talking of using a resettable breaker, 'just in case'.
That's why I suggested using a fuselink and fatter wires. What should I do
to reassure him ?
Thanks,
Gilles
Message 2
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| Subject: | Circuit protection question follow on |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> > > > And do I add a 18 AWG fuselink in case of faulted wire or shorted
> motor ?
> >
> > No, fuses are always MUCH faster than breakers and
> > faster still than fusible links. Wire it with 16AWG
> > and fuse it at 10A and go fly. I'll bet you don't pop
> > the 10A fuse. Try flying for awhile on a 7A fuse. I'll
> > bet it doesn't pop either.
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>
> Bob,
>
> Thanks for answering.
> Our problem is, we'd like to eliminate the risk of nuisance trip.
> In the landing position the flaps are VERY powerful, and in case of
failure
> to retract in a go around we'd be in trouble for real.
> They are using 4 small 35 watt Bosch motors that are rated at 10 amps
> nominal current each, according to Bosch's scarce documentation.
> They are using a similart motor for the pitch trim and they use to protect
> the trim circuit with a 10 amp breaker.
> Seems a lot of amps, but we are stuck with the motors.
> Now since I told him the fuses are faster than the breakers, my friend is
> talking of using a resettable breaker, 'just in case'.
> That's why I suggested using a fuselink and fatter wires. What should I do
> to reassure him ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gilles
Bob and all,
I just succeeded in calling the electrician who devised the flap system. He
is now wortking in an FBO in Luxemburg.
Here's a summary of what he said :
-Yes the inrush current is in the order of 20 amps.
-Yes the 16 AWG wire is a bit weak considering the 25 amp protection. But
his boss was reluctant to buy another reel of larger wire !
-The 14 AWG would definitely be bettter.
Now here's my new question :
Aren't we in a case fairly similar to the Hyd pump ? And then, would'nt it
make sense to go the fuselink only route ? So we'd stick to the 'Connection
philosophy while eliminating the risk of nuisance trip.
Bob, where am I wrong ?
Thanks,
Gilles
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Source for Brass Bolt |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard" <billbernard@worldnet.att.net>
Thanks for all the suggestions. As it turns out, I got a 3/8" x 1" bolt at the
electrical supply house. It was used in the clamp on a ground rod. They had a
couple extra, so I didn't have to buy the whole clamp.
Looks like it will work great.
Thanks for the suggestions.
Bill
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Source for Brass Bolt |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
Bill;
The plumbing industry uses 5/16" brass bolts for toilet bowl hold downs and
for attaching the tank to the bowl. Check the plumbing department at Home
depot or a similar outlet. Watch for cheaper plated steel bolts instead of
pure brass ones though.
Jim Oke
Winnipeg, MB
RV-6A C-GKGZ (waiting for final inspec.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Bernard" <billbernard@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Source for Brass Bolt
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard"
<billbernard@worldnet.att.net>
>
> I'm trying to follow Bob's recommendation to use a 5/16" (or bigger)brass
bolt to get the ground wire through the firewall. I need to get the wire up
from the bottom of the aircraft around a large fuel tank mounted near the
firewall, up to the top where the ground buss is located.
>
> Does anyone have a source for a 5/16" bolt? The biggest I've been able to
locate so far is 1/4".
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Bill
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Tach P-lead feed |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Neil Clayton <harvey4@earthlink.net>
Van's sells in nice electronic analogue tach that I think I'll use, but the
description says it works off the mag "P" lead.
How would I wire it to take it's feed from both mag P-leads so that I can
do a mag-drop test at run up time and still get a signal when I switch from
one mag to the other?
Thanks
Neil
Message 6
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Treff, Arthur" <Arthur.Treff@Smartm.com>
Listers,
I'm looking for a 12V DPDT relay to switch a WigWag function on and off with an
INfinity stick grip switch. Any ideas on a source?
Arthur Treff
Asheville, NC
RV-8 N666AT (reserved)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Circuit protection question follow on |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:07 PM 5/9/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee"
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>
> > > > > And do I add a 18 AWG fuselink in case of faulted wire or shorted
> > motor ?
> > >
> > > No, fuses are always MUCH faster than breakers and
> > > faster still than fusible links. Wire it with 16AWG
> > > and fuse it at 10A and go fly. I'll bet you don't pop
> > > the 10A fuse. Try flying for awhile on a 7A fuse. I'll
> > > bet it doesn't pop either.
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > Thanks for answering.
> > Our problem is, we'd like to eliminate the risk of nuisance trip.
> > In the landing position the flaps are VERY powerful, and in case of
>failure
> > to retract in a go around we'd be in trouble for real.
Understand . . . and this is precisely the reason that the
folks who are supplying this system to you should take the time
to
> > They are using 4 small 35 watt Bosch motors that are rated at 10 amps
> > nominal current each, according to Bosch's scarce documentation.
4 motors in a flap system? Why? How are they synchronized
with each other?
Is there a website that describes this system?
> > They are using a similart motor for the pitch trim and they use to protect
> > the trim circuit with a 10 amp breaker.
> > Seems a lot of amps, but we are stuck with the motors.
> > Now since I told him the fuses are faster than the breakers, my friend is
> > talking of using a resettable breaker, 'just in case'.
> > That's why I suggested using a fuselink and fatter wires. What should I do
> > to reassure him ?
It doesn't matter if you have one motor or 4 . . . IF
full flap extension puts you at-risk for go-around
performance . . . then you should write POH
procedures that call for NOT extending flaps beyond
comfortable go-around settings until on VERY short final.
The early C-150's had infamous "barn door" flaps that
would extend to a setting of 40 degrees. More than
one C-150 pilot made an unplanned/unwanted contact
with the earth when circumstances found him too low,
too slow and too much flaps. There was an AD
issued to limit flap travel on these aircraft to
30 degrees . . . and that was still pretty tense
at gross on a warm day.
Your friend is worrying about the wrong thing. If
the flap system can EVER fail in ANY way, then you
need to operate the airplane in a manner that mitigates
risk. Remember, all other things held constant, system
reliability is inversely proportional to system
parts count; with 4 motors, your are 4x more likely to have
a system failure than with one motor. Wire and
fuse size are WAY down on the list of concerns.
Will failure of a single motor produce asymmetrical
flap extension? There's a 4-motor system on Eclipse
and an 8-motor flap system on Premier. There was about
5 times more work to make sure the system was fail
safe than work required to make them function
normally. Be careful about what you are led to
believe about this system. I am VERY skeptical.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Gilles
>
>Bob and all,
>
>I just succeeded in calling the electrician who devised the flap system. He
>is now wortking in an FBO in Luxemburg.
>Here's a summary of what he said :
>
>-Yes the inrush current is in the order of 20 amps.
Yes . . . ALL motors and ALL lamps have a startup inrush current
that is 3-20 times the running current but these currents last
only for very short periods of time . . .that's why they call
them "inrush" currents.
Went to the workbench and plotted the current/voltage curve
for an H4352 headlamp. You can download the data plot at
http://216.55.140.222/temp/4352_Headlamp.pdf
Note that as current rises from 0 mA, the line is fairly
straight. At 600 mA, the voltage drop is 155 mV which
translates to a resistance of 260 milliohms. It's easy
to see that if we were to increase terminal voltage at
the lamp to 14v, the current through the lamp would be
56 Amps! Hmmm . . . this is a 55 Watt lamp so at 14.0 volts
we would expect 3.9 Amps . . . and indeed, a few hundred
milliseconds after the lamp is turned on, the temperature
rise is so great as to reduce current draw into the normal
operating range.
Another interesting data point gleaned from this
experiment. Looking directly at the lamp's filament,
it was up to dull red glow temperatures (800 degrees
plus?) with only 1.0 Volts applied. At this point
on the curve, it was drawing only 1.5 Amps for
a power consumption value of 1.5 Watts. This
underscores the very steep positive temperature
coefficient of resistance. This lamp was at about
33% normal operating temperature with only 3%
of normal operating power applied!
Motors have a similar characteristic. A pitch
trim motor on the Beechjet draws about 2 Amps
under normal loads. In-situ inrush currents have been
measured at over 12 Amps. This is mitigated by additional
resistance of ship's wiring. If we put 28 Volts right on
the motor terminals, I would expect inrush currents on
the order of 20 Amps. The Beechjet's trim motor has an
acceleration time constant of about 300 mSeconds. So
after about 1 second, the motor is operating within
a few percent of normal operating current.
Should we fuse the 4352 lamp at 60A and wire it with
4AWG wire? The Beechjet's trim system at 10A? No,
like the devices they protect, fuses and breakers have
time constants too. Thermal devices have what is called
an I(squared)*T constant. Generally speaking, if you
double the current through the device, it can be
expected to open in 1/4th the time. Further, the
experiment cited above shows how strongly system
wiring can mitigate inrush currents.
While at the bench, I took the same lamp and powered
it from a 17 a.h. battery through very short test
leads and plotted the inrush currents on a 'scope.
I found that the inrush current peaked at 38 amps
(See . . . internal resistance of battery combined with
resistance of shunt and test leads mitigated a 56
Amp theoretical inrush down to 38 amps!) The time
constant for current on this lamp was observed at
70 mSeconds. This means that it took much less than
a 300 mSeconds for the lamp to reach full operating
temperature. Way below the I(squared)*T value
that puts a 5A fuse at risk.
Is the protection circuit in danger of operating during
normal inrush? Sometimes . . . you can't use the very
fast magnetic breakers on motors and big lamps without
consideration of their ability to detect and operate
on short duration overloads. Thermal devices like fuses
are much slower, breakers slower still, limiters like
the ANL devices recommended for alternators are virtual
snails with respect to response time.
>-Yes the 16 AWG wire is a bit weak considering the 25 amp protection. But
>his boss was reluctant to buy another reel of larger wire!
Typical program manager . . . bottom-line investment
considerations drive decisions best left to engineers.
This is an excellent illustration of a point I've
tried to make many times here on the list. There is
no better data than that which is gathered by the
repeatable experiment. Any of you with access to the
equipment can repeat what I've measured above and
confirm both my methodology and analysis. I'll bet
the folks who supply the flap motor to your project
don't have a 'scope nor have they conducted the
experiments that allow them to size wires and
circuit protection with confidence . . . they're
operating in the, "if 10A/16AWG is good, 25A/12AWG
is better mode."
You need to ask your flap system supplier about
their data from an experiment you might want
to repeat on your airplane.
>-The 14 AWG would definitely be bettter.
>
>Now here's my new question :
>Aren't we in a case fairly similar to the Hyd pump ? And then, would'nt it
>make sense to go the fuselink only route ? So we'd stick to the 'Connection
>philosophy while eliminating the risk of nuisance trip.
>Bob, where am I wrong ?
You're not wrong . . . I am skeptical of the
understanding of physics by people who are advising
you.
I would encourage you to forward a copy of this
note to the supplier of your flap system. If they
perceive it to be the helpful suggestion it is
intended to be, they'll take time to learn more
about operational details of their product.
Given what you've told us today, there are system
operation and safety issues that run far beyond
worries about wire and fuses. Let's talk some
more. Is this the ONLY option you have for flap
system operation?
By the way, there was a discussion over the last
few days about web publishing. When this message
came up on the list, it took about 5 minutes to
gather data at the bench, 5 minutes to plot it to
AutoCAD, 1 minute to "print" to Adobe Acrobat
and another minute to write it to the /temp
directory on aeroelectric.com . . . . pretty
powerful, effective and easy to use tools.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Source for Brass Bolt |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:09 AM 5/9/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
>
>Bill;
>
>The plumbing industry uses 5/16" brass bolts for toilet bowl hold downs and
>for attaching the tank to the bowl. Check the plumbing department at Home
>depot or a similar outlet. Watch for cheaper plated steel bolts instead of
>pure brass ones though.
I've used plumbing hardware with the only disappointment
being the coarse threads. Jim makes a good point. Use
only bare brass hardware. Plating increases resistance
and may hide the fact that the hardware is not brass.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: LR3B Warning Light |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:57 AM 5/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DHPHKH@aol.com
>
>Bob,
> Quick dumb question. LR3B instructions state that the low voltage
>warning lamp is a "midget flanged #330 bulb". Is there something special
>about it's specifications, or may any small 12V incandescent warning light be
>substituted?
>
>Thanks
>Dan Horton
Any 12v lamp can be substituted.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Shielding of Alternator and Magneto Wires |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com
I participated in a debate with a couple composite builders and myself
yesterday about which alternator wires should be shielded. I spoke up and
said, "According the Aeroelectric Connection you don't need to shield any of
the field or B-lead wires. So they pulled out diagrams from their panel
builders, and Firewall Forward and the debate began.
The diagram from the panel builder showed the alternator field wires
grounded, one builder said to use shielded wire on the alternator B lead.
I read about shielding my magneto P leads, but I couldn't find anything in
Aeroelectric Connection about shielding any alternator wires. I ran
unshielded wire on my plane to the alternators.
Please confirm that I'm not building a noisy airplane.
Thanks,
Mike Easley
Lancair ES
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Circuit protection question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
<snip>
> Bob,
>
> Thanks for answering.
> Our problem is, we'd like to eliminate the risk of nuisance trip.
> In the landing position the flaps are VERY powerful, and in case of
failure
> to retract in a go around we'd be in trouble for real.
> They are using 4 small 35 watt Bosch motors that are rated at 10 amps
> nominal current each, according to Bosch's scarce documentation.
> They are using a similart motor for the pitch trim and they use to protect
> the trim circuit with a 10 amp breaker.
> Seems a lot of amps, but we are stuck with the motors.
> Now since I told him the fuses are faster than the breakers, my friend is
> talking of using a resettable breaker, 'just in case'.
> That's why I suggested using a fuselink and fatter wires. What should I do
> to reassure him ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gilles
>
35 Watts pulling 10 Amps???? That ain't right. There are fuses that are
designed for highly inductive loads that will not blow as fast. I don't
know right off hand what the specs are but there are hundreds of different
ratings for fuses out there. You may have to use regular glass fuses and
not the automotive type blade fuses but you could do it.
All in all I bet Bob is right. Run 16AWG wire fuse it with a 10A fuse and
you'll never have to think about it again. If in doubt test it rigorously
on the ground. Put the flaps under load (hold them with your hand) and run
the motors. Put a good Recording DVM on them and see what you get for max
current.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage
http://www.myrv7.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Whelen strobe circuit current draw and grounding |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns@hevanet.com>
Gents:
Don't forget power supply efficiency!
The Whelen guy you talked to may not have sounded knowledgeable, but
the Whelen guy who designed the power supply may have known what he
was doing when he spec'd the current draw.
Although the calculation you performed was correct for the average current
demanded by the strobe tube (assuming all tube input energy was converted into
light), it did not take into account the efficiency of the DC-DC converter driving
the thing.
Modern designs can have efficiencies over 90%, but the design that Whelen is
using might not be that good ( TSO stagnation strikes again ).
I posed this same question to Whelen 2 years ago. For some reason, I got through
to one of their design engineers. He estimated that their supply was at best 80%
efficient - which means that it takes at least 5A input to get 4A out.
The manufacturer's typical spec may cover a multitude of unknowns.
Operating temperature, humidity, aging...all legitimate.
After all, the objective of the company is to guarantee the smallest set of specs
that ensure proper usage of the product under all foreseeable conditions
and minimize their liability.
It would be great if Whelen just published power supply demand limits and
typicals for each operating mode. If the strobe power drain is that critical for
your project,
nothing beats actually measuring its current draw.
Shaun
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Whelen strobe circuit current draw and grounding |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor@chartermi.net>
Bingo!
Denny
If the strobe power drain is that critical for your project,
> nothing beats actually measuring its current draw.
>
> Shaun
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Whelen strobe circuit current draw and grounding |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:15 AM 5/9/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns@hevanet.com>
>
>Gents:
>
>Don't forget power supply efficiency!
>
>The Whelen guy you talked to may not have sounded knowledgeable, but
>the Whelen guy who designed the power supply may have known what he
>was doing when he spec'd the current draw.
Probably did but how did he convey it? Peak current? Average
current? Integrated current? Given the periodic nature of
power emission from the flash tubes, one can rightly expect
a periodic fluctuation in power input wherein AREA UNDER THE
CURRENT curve is integrated current and the true value of
energy demand on the ship's system.
I can tell you that no salesperson at RAC can answer any
similar line of questioning on the part of one of our
customers. I would hope he/she would refer to the question
to the cognizant engineer . . . but in my total tenure
at three airframe companies, I think I may have talked
to a customer once or twice.
>Although the calculation you performed was correct for the average current
>demanded by the strobe tube (assuming all tube input energy was converted into
>light), it did not take into account the efficiency of the DC-DC converter
>driving the thing.
>Modern designs can have efficiencies over 90%, but the design that Whelen is
>using might not be that good ( TSO stagnation strikes again ).
>
>I posed this same question to Whelen 2 years ago. For some reason, I got
>through
>to one of their design engineers. He estimated that their supply was at
>best 80%
>efficient - which means that it takes at least 5A input to get 4A out.
>
>The manufacturer's typical spec may cover a multitude of unknowns.
>Operating temperature, humidity, aging...all legitimate.
>After all, the objective of the company is to guarantee the smallest set
>of specs
>that ensure proper usage of the product under all foreseeable conditions
>and minimize their liability.
>
>It would be great if Whelen just published power supply demand limits and
>typicals for each operating mode. If the strobe power drain is that
>critical for your project,
>nothing beats actually measuring its current draw.
Yup, did such a study on a builder's proposed
strobe light a few years ago. We were looking at both
noise and the periodic, erratic nature of input current
draw for his power supply. See the plot of this
data at:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/Strobe_Plot.pdf
Here one may observe the effects of various filter
techniques tried for noise mitigation. The top
plot is current curve using one of the radio shack
filters as described in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/filter.html
The second plot places a single 10,000 uf cap across
the power supply input.
The third plot shows unfiltered current noise.
In the second plot, we see a data value deduced from
area under the current curve that says this strobe
uses 1.3 ampere seconds of current per cycle. The
ENERGY consumed by this particular strobe is
1.3 a-s/flash x 14v = 18.2 Joules/flash input power.
I think this was a 10 Joule/flash system so this
puts overall efficiency at about 55%. Probably
average for products of this type.
The peak current was measured at 2.7 amps. Average
current is 0.9 x 1.3 or 1.17 amps. I seem to recall
the instructions for this system called for a 5A
breaker . . . a 2A breaker would probably have worked
nicely too.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Documentation methods-CAD pgm to plot data, then print |
.pdf
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit protection question follow on
<< BIG snip >>
> By the way, there was a discussion over the last
> few days about web publishing. When this message
> came up on the list, it took about 5 minutes to
> gather data at the bench, 5 minutes to plot it to
> AutoCAD, 1 minute to "print" to Adobe Acrobat
> and another minute to write it to the /temp
> directory on aeroelectric.com . . . . pretty
> powerful, effective and easy to use tools.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob,
First topic of two: While jogging this morning, was trying to digest/deduce
meaning of what you said yesterday about "fooling the computer into thinking
that Adobe was a printer". Since I don't YET have Adobe Acrobat (only have
Reader), I don't know the interface and menu choices and set-up on a typical
Windows system, thus the following question(s):
1. If I have a .dwg or .dxf AutoCAD drawing I want to convert to .pdf,
and IF/WHEN I have Adobe Acrobat, what are the "clicks"?
-- For example, when Adobe Acrobat is first installed, is there a
new "printer" icon installed called "Adobe" (along with my existing Canon
blk & white hooked to my computer and my wife's color printer hooked to her
computer on other end of our LAN) which I print my file to so it gets
"printed" to the HD as a .pdf file (converted from whatever file type I
tried to print)?
-- Likewise, if I have a .jpg file I want to convert to .pdf, do I
just "print" it to Adobe to get the conversion?
-- If that is the procedure, which folder does it "print" to?
(When I print to a real printer, there is no "save as" dialog box - will
there be in Adobe?)
2. I looked at Kevin Horton's RV-8 Project website last night - I
nominate it as the GREATEST "builder documentation web site". He's
converted all his images to .pdf.
- I can even print his pdf documents/drawings from the website,
which I have never been able to do for any other pdf files being displayed
on the web or in a browser (the "print" option has always been "grayed out"
on other sites/files).
?? Why is it that I can't usually print other people's pdf files
being shown in a browser?
Meanwhile, I'm going to ebay and shopping for Adobe Acrobat (is that what I
want/need?)
Second topic: Plotting data with a CAD program (as opposed to plotting in
Excel).
I tried creating a data chart once on Intellicad and could not get the
desired results (I was very new to the system at that time). What are the
basic steps in Autocad for creating a chart, with X & Y axis labeling and
"units" tick marks or graph paper lines, and plotting the data?
David Carter
Nederland, Texas
RV-6
Message 16
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1@tampabay.rr.com>
Bob,
Did you receive the package from me?
Bob Kuc
>
> Hmmm . . . I've built dozens of these. I'm
> curious as to what's going on here. Can you send
> me your flasher assembly in the mail to look at?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Shielding of Alternator and Magneto |
Wires
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:00 PM 5/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com
>
>I participated in a debate with a couple composite builders and myself
>yesterday about which alternator wires should be shielded. I spoke up and
>said, "According the Aeroelectric Connection you don't need to shield any of
>the field or B-lead wires. So they pulled out diagrams from their panel
>builders, and Firewall Forward and the debate began.
>
>The diagram from the panel builder showed the alternator field wires
>grounded, one builder said to use shielded wire on the alternator B lead.
Yup, Cessna shielded these leads about 1965 and whatever's
good for 100,000 Cessnas must be good for everybody. The
myth was sown in 1965 and has been watered and fertilized
well ever since. There is no basis in physics for doing this.
>I read about shielding my magneto P leads, but I couldn't find anything in
>Aeroelectric Connection about shielding any alternator wires. I ran
>unshielded wire on my plane to the alternators.
>
>Please confirm that I'm not building a noisy airplane.
You stand about 100x better chance of having noise due
to poor grounding techniques than from the lack of any
shield on an airframe system component. Don't loose any
sleep over it.
Bob . . .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 10519 D'Amico |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:13 PM 5/9/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Mike D'Amico (mike.damico@hp.com) on Friday, May 9, 2003 at 06:13:45
>
>Friday, May 9, 2003
>
>Mike D'Amico
>
>,
>Email: mike.damico@hp.com
>Comments/Questions: Hi Bob,
>
>I just receieved my order of Wig-Wag modules yesterday, and have a quick
>question. Are these solid state devices, or relay devices?
>
>I have a couple of folks that are wary of anything that is a relay device,
>such as an automobile blinker... personally, I just want something that
>works and is reliable.
>
>Thanks for your time,
I presume you're talking about the flasher that is shown
on the B&C catalog hosted on this website. That is a relay
driven by electronic timer. It's not a thermal flasher
common to most automotive applications.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 19
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RSwanson <rswan19@comcast.net>
Try http://www.jameco.com/ , they have a fairly large selection. Might
have one you could use.
R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Treff, Arthur" <Arthur.Treff@Smartm.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: DPDT relay
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Treff, Arthur"
<Arthur.Treff@Smartm.com>
>
> Listers,
>
> I'm looking for a 12V DPDT relay to switch a WigWag function on and off
with an INfinity stick grip switch. Any ideas on a source?
>
> Arthur Treff
> Asheville, NC
> RV-8 N666AT (reserved)
>
>
Message 20
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell@hotmail.com>
Hello All,
Anyone have experience in alternator circuit failures that could narrow down
my search?
I have a 40A B&C alternator with the LR3B-14v for control. My 5A field CB
pops. However, after a minute or so, I can reset it and it stays in, most
of the time. I have the Aeroelectric loadmeter and the load on resetting is
high but settles down to the normal 10% load after a minute or so. Adding
or cutting off loads does not seem to influence the tripping. No blown
fuses on any of the other circuits. I just installed a new Concorde 25RG-XC
battery thinking that was the problem. It wasn't. Tripped on take-off last
night. I will now start looking for intermittent shorts tomorrow. I sure
don't want to find that the LR3B is bad. I've flown 3.5 yrs with no alt.
problems until now.
Rick Caldwell
RV-6
Message 21
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| Subject: | Documentation methods-CAD pgm to plot data, then |
print .pdf
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
A FREE alternative to Adobe Acrobat is FinePrint which "saves" files in the
Adobe Acrobat pdf format. Go to www.fineprint.com
to download it. The only downside to FinePrint is that it puts a one line
footer in your document giving a link to their web site.
FinePrint, and I presume Adobe Acrobat also, installs as if it were a
printer so when you want to "save" the document you actually "print" to a
file that happens to be in Adobe Acrobat format. Every installed Windows
application will have this "printer" choice available. In this respect it
is similar to fax software such as WinFax that "prints" to the fax/modem
hardware.
I can find no direct way in AutoCad 2000 LT to make a chart (other than as
text, and that would be rather tedious) but it is straightforward to make a
chart in Excel and use copy & paste to place the chart in an AutoCad
drawing.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airfarame complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
Carter
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Documentation methods-CAD pgm to plot data, then
print .pdf
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter"
<dcarter@datarecall.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit protection question follow on
<< BIG snip >>
> By the way, there was a discussion over the last
> few days about web publishing. When this message
> came up on the list, it took about 5 minutes to
> gather data at the bench, 5 minutes to plot it to
> AutoCAD, 1 minute to "print" to Adobe Acrobat
> and another minute to write it to the /temp
> directory on aeroelectric.com . . . . pretty
> powerful, effective and easy to use tools.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob,
First topic of two: While jogging this morning, was trying to digest/deduce
meaning of what you said yesterday about "fooling the computer into thinking
that Adobe was a printer". Since I don't YET have Adobe Acrobat (only have
Reader), I don't know the interface and menu choices and set-up on a typical
Windows system, thus the following question(s):
1. If I have a .dwg or .dxf AutoCAD drawing I want to convert to .pdf,
and IF/WHEN I have Adobe Acrobat, what are the "clicks"?
-- For example, when Adobe Acrobat is first installed, is there a
new "printer" icon installed called "Adobe" (along with my existing Canon
blk & white hooked to my computer and my wife's color printer hooked to her
computer on other end of our LAN) which I print my file to so it gets
"printed" to the HD as a .pdf file (converted from whatever file type I
tried to print)?
-- Likewise, if I have a .jpg file I want to convert to .pdf, do I
just "print" it to Adobe to get the conversion?
-- If that is the procedure, which folder does it "print" to?
(When I print to a real printer, there is no "save as" dialog box - will
there be in Adobe?)
2. I looked at Kevin Horton's RV-8 Project website last night - I
nominate it as the GREATEST "builder documentation web site". He's
converted all his images to .pdf.
- I can even print his pdf documents/drawings from the website,
which I have never been able to do for any other pdf files being displayed
on the web or in a browser (the "print" option has always been "grayed out"
on other sites/files).
?? Why is it that I can't usually print other people's pdf files
being shown in a browser?
Meanwhile, I'm going to ebay and shopping for Adobe Acrobat (is that what I
want/need?)
Second topic: Plotting data with a CAD program (as opposed to plotting in
Excel).
I tried creating a data chart once on Intellicad and could not get the
desired results (I was very new to the system at that time). What are the
basic steps in Autocad for creating a chart, with X & Y axis labeling and
"units" tick marks or graph paper lines, and plotting the data?
David Carter
Nederland, Texas
RV-6
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Alt Field Trip |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:30 PM 5/9/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Caldwell"
><racaldwell@hotmail.com>
>
>Hello All,
>
>Anyone have experience in alternator circuit failures that could narrow down
>my search?
>
>I have a 40A B&C alternator with the LR3B-14v for control. My 5A field CB
>pops. However, after a minute or so, I can reset it and it stays in, most
>of the time. I have the Aeroelectric loadmeter and the load on resetting is
>high but settles down to the normal 10% load after a minute or so. Adding
>or cutting off loads does not seem to influence the tripping. No blown
>fuses on any of the other circuits. I just installed a new Concorde 25RG-XC
>battery thinking that was the problem. It wasn't. Tripped on take-off last
>night. I will now start looking for intermittent shorts tomorrow. I sure
>don't want to find that the LR3B is bad. I've flown 3.5 yrs with no alt.
>problems until now.
If your LR3 is that old, it may benefit from an update we
added to the that series of regulators about 2 years ago.
We had some nuisance tripping problems on some certified
ships that caused some redesign. It's a very minor change
that only a tiny percentage of customers can take advantage
off. If your voltage and current behavior of the system
is stable and "normal" for what you've been observing for
years, then I suspect you have no wiring problems that
will account for this. Call B&C and see if they'll update
your LR3 for the "nuisance trip" fix for a very reasonable
price . . . if you don't like the price, send it to me
and I'll do it.
Bob . . .
Message 23
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| Subject: | Documentation methods to print .pdf |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>First topic of two: While jogging this morning, was trying to digest/deduce
>meaning of what you said yesterday about "fooling the computer into thinking
>that Adobe was a printer". Since I don't YET have Adobe Acrobat (only have
>Reader), I don't know the interface and menu choices and set-up on a typical
>Windows system, thus the following question(s):
>
> 1. If I have a .dwg or .dxf AutoCAD drawing I want to convert to .pdf,
>and IF/WHEN I have Adobe Acrobat, what are the "clicks"?
you say "plot" or "print" and then when the print menu comes up,
Acrobat Distiller will be one of your printer options in addition
to any other printers you may have installed. Select Acrobat Distiller
and then it will ask you things about paper size, landscape or portrait,
etc. Instead of spitting out image on hardware printer it asks you
what you want to name the .pdf file and where you want it stored.
If you've printed any application to a hardware printer, you can
print to Adobe Acrobat just as easily.
> -- For example, when Adobe Acrobat is first installed, is there a
>new "printer" icon installed called "Adobe" (along with my existing Canon
>blk & white hooked to my computer and my wife's color printer hooked to her
>computer on other end of our LAN) which I print my file to so it gets
>"printed" to the HD as a .pdf file (converted from whatever file type I
>tried to print)?
yup . ..
> -- Likewise, if I have a .jpg file I want to convert to .pdf, do I
>just "print" it to Adobe to get the conversion?
yup . . .
> -- If that is the procedure, which folder does it "print" to?
>(When I print to a real printer, there is no "save as" dialog box - will
>there be in Adobe?)
Adobe will ask you where to save it and what to name it . . .
> 2. I looked at Kevin Horton's RV-8 Project website last night - I
>nominate it as the GREATEST "builder documentation web site". He's
>converted all his images to .pdf.
> - I can even print his pdf documents/drawings from the website,
>which I have never been able to do for any other pdf files being displayed
>on the web or in a browser (the "print" option has always been "grayed out"
>on other sites/files).
> ?? Why is it that I can't usually print other people's pdf files
>being shown in a browser?
Make sure you have the latest freebe version of Acrobat
Reader . . although if you're going to install Acrobat
then you'll get the latest reading capability with it. Uninstall
older versions of Reader before you install Acrobat.
Also, you can eliminate lots of potential for download/display
problems if you tell your browser to download and store a .pdf
to a directory and open it with Reader or Acrobat AFTER download
is complete. This technique fixes about 90% of my readers
complaints about Adobe .pdf files.
>Meanwhile, I'm going to ebay and shopping for Adobe Acrobat (is that what I
>want/need?)
That would sure be my choice. I've used it here now for about
5 years. Except for occasional hassles with specific browser/reader
problems, it's been the most convenient and trouble free document
generator for publication. Get the latest version you can . . .
sometimes it's more economical to buy a new, unregistered copy
in an older version and then get the update from Adobe. That's
how I got my first Acrobat running . . . I think I did the whole
thing for under $150. Also consider taking an engineering student
to lunch and then dropping by the university bookstore after
lunch so he/she can buy you a latest/greatest version at the
university bookstore . . . these are QUITE reasonable too. They
say "for academic use only" to which I reply, "I don't know how
to use this and therefore I AM in the learning mode . . ."
>Second topic: Plotting data with a CAD program (as opposed to plotting in
>Excel).
> I tried creating a data chart once on Intellicad and could not get the
>desired results (I was very new to the system at that time). What are the
>basic steps in Autocad for creating a chart, with X & Y axis labeling and
>"units" tick marks or graph paper lines, and plotting the data?
Hmmm . . . this is pretty tall order for a two paragraph tutorial.
When you get ready to study AutoCAD, find a file called acad.pgp
Use a generic text editor like notepad.exe to cut and paste the
following list into the file . . . erase all existing similar looking
equivalents . . .
AR, *ARRAY
B, *BLOCK
BR, *BREAK
CI, *CIRCLE
CC, *COPYCLIP
CE, *COPYEMBED
CH, *CHAMFER
C, *CHANGE
CO, *COPY
E, *ERASE
ED, *DDEDIT
F, *FILLET
H, *HATCH
IN, *INSERT
L, *LINE
LA, *LAYER
LC, *LTSCALE
LT, *LINETYPE
M, *MOVE
MI, *MIRROR
O, *OSNAP
OF, *OFFSET
PE, *PEDIT
PG, *POLYGON
PL, *PLINE
Q, *EXIT
R, *REDRAW
RG, *REGEN
RO, *ROTATE
S, *STRETCH
SC, *SCALE
T, *TRIM
TX, *TEXT
U, *UNDO
V, *VIEW
WB, *WBLOCK
XP *EXPLODE
XT, *EXTEND
Z, *ZOOM
This is a list of 1 and 2-letter overlays for the
fully spelled out plain English command that AutoCAD
will understand. There are about 40 commands here.
AutoCAD understand virtually hundreds and hundreds
of commands . . . however, this is my personal .pgp
file that represents the commands I use about 99% of the
time. Therefore, this same list is a good study guide.
Go down the right hand column of AutoCAD commands in this
list and look them up in any study guides you may acquire.
If you learn nothing but these commands (plus a few
rudimentary houskeeping commands like "open" and "save")
you'll be getting a handle on a suite of commands that
does about everything I do with AutoCAD . . .
I ignore the pull-downs and learned how to type with
the right hand and steer the mouse with the left hand.
I found it much easier to learn and faster to use
than fiddle with those windows-like pulldowns.
Bob . . .
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13 and Dual Electronic Ignitions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:20 PM 5/8/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joel Harding <cajole76@ispwest.com>
>
>Norm,
>I have been contemplating many of the same ideas you just presented. I
>started out with Z-11 and added dual electronic ignitions. Then I took
>the Lightspeed recommendation to install a small 4.5 A H aux battery as
>a backup for one of the ignitions, and started thinking about using it
>as a second power source for the essential bus. But then, like you I
>began thinking why not install a disconnect between the main and
>essential bus and use it as like an avionics bus since most of the same
>items would be on both.
>The questions I have are:
>1. What are the negative consequences of installing a switch between
>the main and essential buses?
>
>2. Is a contactor needed with the small aux battery?
>
>Joel Harding
What failures do you anticipate that you would be needing
the second battery to power the e-bus? If you do reasonable
preventative maintenance on the main battery AND do a load
analysis that shows your main battery will carry e-bus
loads for duration of fuel, I think I'd leave the second
battery for ignition only. In fact, with Z-11 and dual
17 a.h. batteries, you get 34 a.h. of cranking. You have
a less than two-year old battery in aux slot to carry
engine loads only. You've got a fresh battery in main
slot to carry e-bus loads only (I'd shut off one ignition
during alternator out operations).
>On Thursday, May 8, 2003, at 10:25 AM, Muzzy Norman E wrote:
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Muzzy Norman E"
> > <MuzzyNormanE@JohnDeere.com>
> >
> > I will run with a 40A alternator and an SD-8 for engine driven power
> > sources, and a pair of electronic ignition systems (no mags). The Z-13
> > diagram lays out the architecture for the SD-8 and L40 charging system
> > with
> > one battery. I could wire my ignition systems directly to the Battery
> > bus
> > as shown. It has been said several times that an electrically
> > dependent
> > ignition design really deserves two batteries. So, where do we go to
> > achieve this?
> >
> > We could adopt the architecture of Z-14 but use the SD-8 as a second
> > alternator. One of the challenges with this architecture is that it
> > requires a minimum of two contactors to power the busses where the
> > essential
> > items reside. The ignition systems would be located one each on the
> > battery
> > busses. I think that Z-14 makes sense with two big alternators, but
> > may not
> > be optimized for the SD-8.
> >
> > Or, we could add an additional battery to Z-13 using Figure Z-30. In
> > this
> > manner, we can run the essential bus philosophy, with an additional
> > battery
> > that could be isolated from the rest of the charging system. In order
> > to
> > supply the essential bus from the second battery, we need to modify
> > how the
> > essential bus is powered. As soon as you do that, it begins to smell
> > a lot
> > like an avionics bus, which can be powered from either Battery 1 or
> > Battery
> > 2. We can: A) leave it as is, with the diode to one of the main busses
> > and
> > alt feed from the same battery. B) use a 3 position switch as a
> > selector
> > between the two batteries (There's that avionics bus smell again...),
> > eliminate the diode (to prevent tying the batteries together during
> > starting
> > if the alt feed switch were on, or if one of the battery busses were
> > somehow
> > pulled close to ground).
> >
> > While we are considering how to tie this second battery in, we are also
> > being reminded that using lightweight washers instead of standard
> > washers
> > could save a few ounces on your airframe. And that adding weight is
> > even
> > worse than installing a split master switch! So, that little voice in
> > the
> > back of our head encourages us to install the Z-13 system with a single
> > battery and save the weight.
> >
> > My gut tells me to add a second battery to the Z-13 architecture,
> > using the
> > Z-30 technique. Tie the E-bus to the Battery bus that is associated
> > with
> > the SD-8.
> >
> > I suspect that I am not alone in debating these possibilities, and
> > would
> > like to here some discussion on what would be the appropriate manner to
> > handle feeding the E-bus.
If you have two engine driven power sources, then you don't
need two batteries. I'd run a Figure Z-13 system and run
both ignitions from the battery bus. Further, if you're really
tight on weight, you can down-size the battery to something on
the order of 10 a.h. if you don't mind the extra cost of the
smaller battery.
There are LOTS of different ways to hook things up that will
FUNCTION. What we should be trying to do is honor the wisdom
of a 13th century philosopher, William of Ockham who opined
"Plurality should not be assumed without necessity" . . . or
in more modern parlance, don't make it any more complex
than necessary. If you deduce some shortfall in the suggested
system cited above that drives a necessity for adding complexity
to the system, let's talk about it.
Bob . . .
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Documentation methods to print .pdf |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Thanks, Bob, for the patience to give an informative (long) reply to help us
get going on our documentation and design work.
Started modifying Z-13 for my RV-6 with John Deere PM alternator ("dynamo")
as the only alternator and two batteries, to power my Mazda rotary engine.
Making progress deleting the "std alternator, regulator, & mags", then
looking up "block names" in the Blocks window and the "insert blocks", by
name, into dwg (switches, dots, etc). Re-routing lines and having a great
time. I'll put the dwg out for peer review when done - hopefully in .pdf
format!
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Documentation methods to print .pdf
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >First topic of two: While jogging this morning, was trying to
digest/deduce
> >meaning of what you said yesterday about "fooling the computer into
thinking
> >that Adobe was a printer". Since I don't YET have Adobe Acrobat (only
have
> >Reader), I don't know the interface and menu choices and set-up on a
typical
> >Windows system, thus the following question(s):
> >
> > 1. If I have a .dwg or .dxf AutoCAD drawing I want to convert to
.pdf,
> >and IF/WHEN I have Adobe Acrobat, what are the "clicks"?
>
> you say "plot" or "print" and then when the print menu comes up,
> Acrobat Distiller will be one of your printer options in addition
> to any other printers you may have installed. Select Acrobat Distiller
> and then it will ask you things about paper size, landscape or
portrait,
> etc. Instead of spitting out image on hardware printer it asks you
> what you want to name the .pdf file and where you want it stored.
> If you've printed any application to a hardware printer, you can
> print to Adobe Acrobat just as easily.
>
>
> > -- For example, when Adobe Acrobat is first installed, is there
a
> >new "printer" icon installed called "Adobe" (along with my existing Canon
> >blk & white hooked to my computer and my wife's color printer hooked to
her
> >computer on other end of our LAN) which I print my file to so it gets
> >"printed" to the HD as a .pdf file (converted from whatever file type I
> >tried to print)?
>
> yup . ..
>
> > -- Likewise, if I have a .jpg file I want to convert to .pdf,
do I
> >just "print" it to Adobe to get the conversion?
>
> yup . . .
>
> > -- If that is the procedure, which folder does it "print" to?
> >(When I print to a real printer, there is no "save as" dialog box - will
> >there be in Adobe?)
> Adobe will ask you where to save it and what to name it . . .
>
> > 2. I looked at Kevin Horton's RV-8 Project website last night - I
> >nominate it as the GREATEST "builder documentation web site". He's
> >converted all his images to .pdf.
> > - I can even print his pdf documents/drawings from the website,
> >which I have never been able to do for any other pdf files being
displayed
> >on the web or in a browser (the "print" option has always been "grayed
out"
> >on other sites/files).
> > ?? Why is it that I can't usually print other people's pdf
files
> >being shown in a browser?
>
>
> Make sure you have the latest freebe version of Acrobat
> Reader . . although if you're going to install Acrobat
> then you'll get the latest reading capability with it. Uninstall
> older versions of Reader before you install Acrobat.
>
> Also, you can eliminate lots of potential for download/display
> problems if you tell your browser to download and store a .pdf
> to a directory and open it with Reader or Acrobat AFTER download
> is complete. This technique fixes about 90% of my readers
> complaints about Adobe .pdf files.
>
>
> >Meanwhile, I'm going to ebay and shopping for Adobe Acrobat (is that what
I
> >want/need?)
>
> That would sure be my choice. I've used it here now for about
> 5 years. Except for occasional hassles with specific browser/reader
> problems, it's been the most convenient and trouble free document
> generator for publication. Get the latest version you can . . .
> sometimes it's more economical to buy a new, unregistered copy
> in an older version and then get the update from Adobe. That's
> how I got my first Acrobat running . . . I think I did the whole
> thing for under $150. Also consider taking an engineering student
> to lunch and then dropping by the university bookstore after
> lunch so he/she can buy you a latest/greatest version at the
> university bookstore . . . these are QUITE reasonable too. They
> say "for academic use only" to which I reply, "I don't know how
> to use this and therefore I AM in the learning mode . . ."
>
> >Second topic: Plotting data with a CAD program (as opposed to plotting
in
> >Excel).
> > I tried creating a data chart once on Intellicad and could not get
the
> >desired results (I was very new to the system at that time). What are
the
> >basic steps in Autocad for creating a chart, with X & Y axis labeling and
> >"units" tick marks or graph paper lines, and plotting the data?
>
> Hmmm . . . this is pretty tall order for a two paragraph tutorial.
> When you get ready to study AutoCAD, find a file called acad.pgp
> Use a generic text editor like notepad.exe to cut and paste the
> following list into the file . . . erase all existing similar looking
> equivalents . . .
>
>
> AR, *ARRAY
> B, *BLOCK
> BR, *BREAK
> CI, *CIRCLE
> CC, *COPYCLIP
> CE, *COPYEMBED
> CH, *CHAMFER
> C, *CHANGE
> CO, *COPY
> E, *ERASE
> ED, *DDEDIT
> F, *FILLET
> H, *HATCH
> IN, *INSERT
> L, *LINE
> LA, *LAYER
> LC, *LTSCALE
> LT, *LINETYPE
> M, *MOVE
> MI, *MIRROR
> O, *OSNAP
> OF, *OFFSET
> PE, *PEDIT
> PG, *POLYGON
> PL, *PLINE
> Q, *EXIT
> R, *REDRAW
> RG, *REGEN
> RO, *ROTATE
> S, *STRETCH
> SC, *SCALE
> T, *TRIM
> TX, *TEXT
> U, *UNDO
> V, *VIEW
> WB, *WBLOCK
> XP *EXPLODE
> XT, *EXTEND
> Z, *ZOOM
>
> This is a list of 1 and 2-letter overlays for the
> fully spelled out plain English command that AutoCAD
> will understand. There are about 40 commands here.
> AutoCAD understand virtually hundreds and hundreds
> of commands . . . however, this is my personal .pgp
> file that represents the commands I use about 99% of the
> time. Therefore, this same list is a good study guide.
> Go down the right hand column of AutoCAD commands in this
> list and look them up in any study guides you may acquire.
> If you learn nothing but these commands (plus a few
> rudimentary houskeeping commands like "open" and "save")
> you'll be getting a handle on a suite of commands that
> does about everything I do with AutoCAD . . .
>
> I ignore the pull-downs and learned how to type with
> the right hand and steer the mouse with the left hand.
> I found it much easier to learn and faster to use
> than fiddle with those windows-like pulldowns.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Whelen strobe current draw |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bill Irvine <wgirvine@yahoo.com>
> So, if we assume that the strobe outlets produce a
> flash once every 860 milliseconds, then Outlets 3 42
> watt/seconds divided by .86 seconds is 48 watts, or
> 4 amps in a 12 volt system. This 4 amp "event" is
> alternating with Outlet 1. Therefore, the power
> pack is drawing 4 amps continuously, am I right?
I'm no expert on this, but keep in mind that for the
CF (Comet Flash) power supplies, everytime they
"flash", they actually produce four flashes in very
rapid succession. If the sum total of the four
flashes is 42 joules, then your calculations might be
correct. But if each one of the four flashes is 42
joules, then you will be off by a factor of four.
Bill
Lancaster, CA
C-310 (still in pieces)
do not archive
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