Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:59 AM - Re: Two questions-- (BobsV35B@aol.com)
2. 08:09 AM - Re: Cheap blind encoder. (Ian Scott)
3. 08:13 AM - Isolation amplifier (Paul McAllister)
4. 09:36 AM - Re: Cheap blind encoder. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 01:47 PM - Re: Z-13 with aux battery -- a few questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 03:28 PM - Re: Cheap blind encoder. (Greg Young)
7. 04:07 PM - Re: Z-13 with aux battery -- a few questions (Geoff Evans)
8. 04:11 PM - VERY confused about AMP Mate-N-Lok connectors (Dan Checkoway)
9. 06:18 PM - Re: cutting heavy gauge wire, contactor diodes, copper alloys (Dan Checkoway)
10. 07:23 PM - Re: cutting heavy gauge wire, contactor diodes, (Charlie & Tupper England)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Two questions-- |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 5/25/03 12:19:29 AM Central Daylight Time,
bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
> >1) Along with keyswitch orientation. How about the little keyway on the
> >toggle switch bushing. I always put them on the OFF/Down side. Is there a
> >standard I don't know about?
>
> Our diagram numbers assume key-way up. Of course, this only affects
> the progressive transfer switches. All others are mirror image
> for operation and can mount either way.
>
Good Morning Bob and Eric,
For What It's Worth, in order to have the numbers right side up when using
Klixon CBs, the keyway must be up.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Message 2
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| Subject: | Cheap blind encoder. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ian Scott" <jabiru22@yahoo.com.au>
HI again,
Is there any difference between
ACK A-30 ALTITUDE ENCODER P/N A-30 $178.000 USD (seems to come with
harness and static fittings Aircraft spruce and
Ameri-King AK-350 30,000 ft. 11-12010 $152.000 USD Aircraft spruce
I am about to order one of them, to talk to the microair 2000
transponder.
Thanks
Ian
Message 3
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| Subject: | Isolation amplifier |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi Bob,
Has this project progressed any further? Are you contemplating offering it up
as a kit?
Thanks, Paul
Message 4
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| Subject: | Cheap blind encoder. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:06 AM 5/26/2003 +1000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ian Scott" <jabiru22@yahoo.com.au>
>
>HI again,
>
>Is there any difference between
>
>ACK A-30 ALTITUDE ENCODER P/N A-30 $178.000 USD (seems to come with
>harness and static fittings Aircraft spruce and
>
>Ameri-King AK-350 30,000 ft. 11-12010 $152.000 USD Aircraft spruce
>
>I am about to order one of them, to talk to the microair 2000
>transponder.
Either one is fine . . .
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13 with aux battery -- a few questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:24 PM 5/22/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Geoff Evans
><hellothaimassage@yahoo.com>
>
>Bob:
>
>I posted this question last weekend while you were out of town (sorry, I
>didn't know you were gone). Perhaps it got lost somewhere in your inbox
>somewhere, so I'm reposting it now with some slight changes. I'd really like
>your comments.
Sorry for the delay . . . holding a few extra dragons
a bay . . .
>I'm planning a Z-13 architecture with an additional small (4.5 AH) battery
>to support one side of a dual electronic ignition in the very unlikely event
>that the main battery goes inop for whatever reason. I perfer this to two
>full-sized batteries because it offers unlimited endurance and it weighs
>less.
fine . . .
>I'm making an assumption here, and that is that a 4.5 AH battery can support
>the operation of either the SD-8 or a standard alternator like the L-40. If
>this is *not* the case (e.g. I should only use a larger battery with the
>larger alternator), then the below-proposed system is overly complicated and
>I can slim it down somewhat. I just figured that if I am going to install a
>second small battery just incase the main battery goes inop, it might as well
>be able to make either of my alternators run as well.
Why have the little battery support anything BUT the second ignition?
>Anyway, I propose connecting the 4.5 AH battery directly to the #2 ignition
>with a fuesable link.
Okay . . .
> I will also connect it to the always-hot side of the
>main battery contactor through a S704-1 relay. I will call the switch for the
>relay the "Aux Battery Bus Tie," and it will be open for starting and closed
>for all other operations EXCEPT for when both alternators are inop.
. . . correct
> In that
>case, I'd open the relay to split the batteries so I have more control over
>battery endurance.
With dual alternator failure, I'd open the battery tie relay
-AND- shut down the alternator on the Aux battery. It's the last
ditch reserve which you're never going to need . . . and we
know the engine runs fine on one electronic ignition . . . hundreds
of airplanes do it every day when they run electronic paired
with a magneto . . . the magneto contributes nothing at manifold
pressures below 25" or so.
>Additionally, the power to the coil in the relay will come from BOTH
>batteries, via diodes. This will allow the relay to be powered from either
>battery without allowing current to flow from one battery to the other unless
>the relay is actually closed.
That's okay . . .
> I think this would be useful in the unlikely
>event of a battery-inop situation (which is the only reason I'm installing a
>second small battery in the first place). If the aux battery goes inop, I can
>still use juice from the main battery to hold the relay closed and thereby
>power the #2 ign from the main battery.
. . . whoa . . you're piling so many multiple failures on
top of each other that folks may be wondering if you're
getting paranoid . . . or identifying with too many
dark-n-stormy-night stories. This IS B&C equipment you're
considering . . . no? Failure rates on that stuff for
other than user induced damage has been very close
to zero for over ten years.
Had a builder loose a 200G a few weeks ago. Turned out
to be improperly installed terminals that worked anyway
for a very long time.
>Alternatively, if the main battery
>goes inop, I can use juice from the aux battery to hold the relay closed and
>thereby allow the aux battery to be available to support either the L-40 or
>the SD-8 alternator.
If it were my airplane, I'd take Z-13 as is and add the second
battery + S704 to support the second ignition. I'd probably even
use an LVWarn/Aux Battery Management Module to run the S704
relay . . . but manual is fine too as long as you DO have
active notification of low voltage by other means.
>With this architecture, the only time I'd be without electrical power on the
>e-bus and powering only the #2 ign directly from the aux battery is if the
>main battery and both alternators died -- highly unlikely.
You're more unlikely to have problems do to wiring complexity
and/or system management errors than for multiple failures
cited. Obviously, you can wire it any way you wish but if it
were my airplane, a simple addition of battery, two diodes
as you've proposed, and a battery switch would take care
of the second ignition just fine . . . also, a new 4.5 a.h.
battery goes into that slot every year. You can run the main
battery longer since you have two engine driven power sources
that offer unlimited endurance without draining either
battery.
>Questions:
>
>Once again, I'm making the assumption that a small battery will support
>either the SD-8 or the L-40 alternator. Is this correct?
yeah . . . but I wouldn't do it.
>If the small aux battery somehow got discharged, what prevents it from
>accepting too much current from the main alternator through its relatively
>small wiring connections (12 AWG)? Is there something I'm missing, inherent
>in the way batteries accept a charging current, that would prevent this wire
>from being overloaded?
RG batteries are pretty tolerant of an occasional rapid
energy stuffing . . . it'll be okay . . . especially
if you replace it every annual.
>What type of diodes should I use with the relay? The same 1N5400s that you
>show on Z-14?
They're fine or 1N400x series too. You're going to have
three diodes come together into one terminal on coil(+)
so the 1N400x are probably the best choice (smaller wires)
You can take diode(-) ends to the other three relay
connections to share terminals with lead wires. 12AWG
is whopping too big . . . 22 or 20 AWG is fine for
a small battery like that.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Cheap blind encoder. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
The ACK has a very short plastic barb-type fitting to connect the static
source. I found it a PITA to get a hose clamped to it. The Ameri-king has a
threaded port to use a variety of fittings. I had the ACK on the RV and have
the Ameri-king on my Navion. They are functionally equivalent but I'd buy
the Ameri-king if I needed another. FWIW the pin-outs are identical.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY - project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ian Scott"
> <jabiru22@yahoo.com.au>
>
> HI again,
>
> Is there any difference between
>
> ACK A-30 ALTITUDE ENCODER P/N A-30 $178.000 USD (seems to come with
> harness and static fittings Aircraft spruce and
>
> Ameri-King AK-350 30,000 ft. 11-12010 $152.000 USD Aircraft spruce
>
> I am about to order one of them, to talk to the microair 2000
> transponder.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Ian
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13 with aux battery -- a few questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Geoff Evans <hellothaimassage@yahoo.com>
Bob,
>>>
Sorry for the delay . . . holding a few extra dragons a bay . . .
<<<
No problem at all..
>>>
Why have the little battery support anything BUT the second ignition?
<<<
It won't, with the exception of being able to stabilize the SD-8 in the
unlikely event the main battery goes tango uniform. After all, the only
reason I'm installing the second battery in the first place is for that same
unlikely event, so I figure I ought to be able to put that small battery on
the bus with the SD-8 and still have unlimited endurance.
>>>
. . . whoa . . you're piling so many multiple failures on
top of each other that folks may be wondering if you're
getting paranoid
<<<
Not paranoid.. I just figure that if I'm going to carry around an aux
battery, that I ought to be able to power its relay from either itself or the
main battery. For the cost of a 2-cent diode, I'll be able to deal with an
additional electrical malfunction that probably won't ever happen anyway. It
just somehow seems wrong to me to put a battery in an airplane and then
restrict the way it can be used.
>>>
If it were my airplane, I'd take Z-13 as is and add the second
battery + S704 to support the second ignition. I'd probably even
use an LVWarn/Aux Battery Management Module to run the S704
relay . . . but manual is fine too as long as you DO have
active notification of low voltage by other means.
<<<
The only problem I see with the ABMM driving that relay (by sensing e-bus
voltage) is that if the main battery does go tango uniform, the ABMM will
open the relay and therefore subsequently render the SD-8 useless (because it
won't have a battery to stabilize it). I'd also lose the entire e-bus in this
situation. Of course, with the OFF-AUTO-ON switch, I could force the aux
battery back on the bus, using it to bring up the SD-8 and thereby repowering
the e-bus.
Anyway, is the low voltage warning light from the main alternator controller
good enough, or are you suggesting that I also need a low voltage monitor on
the line going to the aux battery? I figure that if I do have a main
alternator failure and have to start up the SD-8, I'm going to be paying *a
lot* more attention to the voltmeter that will be on the e-bus.
>>>
>Once again, I'm making the assumption that a small battery will support
>either the SD-8 or the L-40 alternator. Is this correct?
yeah . . . but I wouldn't do it.
<<<
Curious.. Why not?
>>>
RG batteries are pretty tolerant of an occasional rapid
energy stuffing . . . it'll be okay . . . especially
if you replace it every annual.
<<<
I wasn't worried so much about the battery, but about the wire going to it.
If I use 18-20 AWG wire going to the aux battery, what prevents the main
alternator from pumping 20 amps down this wire if the aux battery is deeply
discharged?
>>>
They're fine or 1N400x series too. You're going to have
three diodes come together into one terminal on coil(+)
so the 1N400x are probably the best choice (smaller wires)
You can take diode(-) ends to the other three relay
connections to share terminals with lead wires.
<<<
Three diodes? Does the S704-1 need a spike catcher as well (like the
contactors do)?
Once again, thanks so much for your time!
If it helps, I've added the setup I described to the Z-13 drawing and made a
few other modifications. You can download it at:
http://home.attbi.com/~rv8/My_System.dwg
-Geoff
RV-8
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | VERY confused about AMP Mate-N-Lok connectors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
I'm sitting here looking at the Digikey & Mouser catalogs, and I'm totally
confused about AMP Mate-N-Lok connectors. There are Commercial, Universal,
and Universal II. Each one seems to use a mutually exclusive pin/socket
type.
Then...ok, let's say I've got 22 AWG wire that needs to be connected. I'm
looking at the contacts selection and there are "30-22AWG" and "24-18AWG"
ranges. Then there are brass, brass gold, brass pre-tin, phosphor bronze,
etc.
Then there's what Terminal Town sells, and who knows what that stuff is.
I've looked on a zillion aircraft builder web sites and sure, everybody says
to use Mate-N-Lok connectors. Ok, would if I could...nobody spells out the
specific parts!
SHEEEEESH.
Can somebody give me a CLEAR answer about which connectors are ideal for
free-hanging applications in aircraft?
How about the required tools? Since these catalogs seem to sell different
crimpers for different style connector contacts (yes, the crimper part #s
are *different*), I can't tell what's what.
Is the BCT-1 a crimp-all-end-all tool?
Frustrated and confused,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: cutting heavy gauge wire, contactor diodes, copper |
alloys
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> >2) What type of diode(s) should be used on battery/starter contactors? I
> >couldn't find any spec on it in the AEC book. I have a 3-terminal
battery
> >contactor (ES 24115 from Van's) and a 4-terminal starter contactor (ES
> >24021). I've checked the archives and found varying info...1N5xxx or
1N4xxx
> >or other?
>
> The diode needs to be rated for 15v or more and be capable
> of carrying the same current that it takes to energize the
> contactor (1 to 5A) for a few milliseconds. About any
> diode rectifier is electrically suited to the task. 1N400x
> series are fine but they are rather small, sometimes glass
> devices that are fragile compared to the 1N540x series
> devices that are always 1/4" diam plastic and 20AWG leads.
>
> If you look at the diodes we supply on the S700 series
> contactors at
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/s701-1l.jpg
> and http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/s701-2.jpg
>
> . . . you can see how the mechanically more robust
> 3A diodes lend themselves to the task.
>
> ANY diode you can find will work electrically . . .
> chose for convenience of application.
Sorry to bring this back up, but the vagueness of "ANY diode" has left my
head spinning as I look at page 468 of the Digikey catalog (Sept-Dec 2002).
There's a selection of 1N540x diodes (bridge rectifiers?), the variation
being the "max peak reverse voltage." It ranges from 50V to 1000V. Can I
assume that 50V is sufficient? Is this voltage what you meant by "rated for
15v"? They all cost the same (32 cents), but does "going big" equate to
being conservative?
Or should I really just throw a dart at the page and choose one that way?
8-)
I have no clue what any of this means (I am no electrical engineer!), so any
light you can shed is much appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: cutting heavy gauge wire, contactor diodes, |
copper alloys
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>
>
>>>2) What type of diode(s) should be used on battery/starter contactors? I
>>>couldn't find any spec on it in the AEC book. I have a 3-terminal
>>>
>>>
>battery
>
>
>>>contactor (ES 24115 from Van's) and a 4-terminal starter contactor (ES
>>>24021). I've checked the archives and found varying info...1N5xxx or
>>>
>>>
>1N4xxx
>
>
>>>or other?
>>>
>>>
>> The diode needs to be rated for 15v or more and be capable
>> of carrying the same current that it takes to energize the
>> contactor (1 to 5A) for a few milliseconds. About any
>> diode rectifier is electrically suited to the task. 1N400x
>> series are fine but they are rather small, sometimes glass
>> devices that are fragile compared to the 1N540x series
>> devices that are always 1/4" diam plastic and 20AWG leads.
>>
>> If you look at the diodes we supply on the S700 series
>> contactors at
>>
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/s701-1l.jpg
>> and http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/s701-2.jpg
>>
>> . . . you can see how the mechanically more robust
>> 3A diodes lend themselves to the task.
>>
>> ANY diode you can find will work electrically . . .
>> chose for convenience of application.
>>
>>
>
>Sorry to bring this back up, but the vagueness of "ANY diode" has left my
>head spinning as I look at page 468 of the Digikey catalog (Sept-Dec 2002).
>There's a selection of 1N540x diodes (bridge rectifiers?), the variation
>being the "max peak reverse voltage." It ranges from 50V to 1000V. Can I
>assume that 50V is sufficient? Is this voltage what you meant by "rated for
>15v"? They all cost the same (32 cents), but does "going big" equate to
>being conservative?
>
>Or should I really just throw a dart at the page and choose one that way?
>8-)
>
>I have no clue what any of this means (I am no electrical engineer!), so any
>light you can shed is much appreciated.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
Think in terms of a one-way check valve in a water line. The higher the
voltage rating, the more reverse pressure (voltage) the diode can take
before failing to block current flow, just like a check valve has
limited strength as to how much water pressure it can take before
allowing water to flow backward in the pipe. Higher voltage rating won't
hurt anything unless it causes the device's physical size to increase to
the point that it becomes hard to use in the intended application. In
this application, 'going big' can equate to being (unnecessarily ?)
conservative, but it won't hurt either.
Charlie
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