Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:32 AM - Engine torque measurement (Gary Casey)
2. 06:37 AM - Re: Engine torque measurement (Benford2@aol.com)
3. 07:46 AM - Re: Wire Labels (Mark Nielsen)
4. 10:07 AM - Re: Wire labels (John Schroeder)
5. 02:00 PM - Re: Wire labels (iflyaa5)
6. 05:05 PM - Re: Engine torque measurement (Tom Schiff)
7. 05:08 PM - D-Sub for Idiots (kc)
8. 06:52 PM - Re: Mom-on toggle (James Foerster)
9. 07:52 PM - Re: Mom-on toggle (Tom...)
10. 09:21 PM - Re: Engine torque measurement (BobsV35B@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Engine torque measurement |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
I've often wondered if measuring the engine deflection in the engine mounts
would be a practical method of determining torque. The idea would be to
attach a position sensor to opposite cylinders, since that is a convenient
location where two sensors could be placed as far from the centerline as
possible and in the same plane as the crank. Engine mount deflection is not
linear with applied and it probably changes significantly with time, but it
might be a way to grasp a large enough signal to be practical. Common-mode
effects due to G loading and thrust would presumably be cancelled. One
could also use strain gages on the engine mount tubing, but the stresses are
very low and because of the geometry canceling the common-mode effects would
be difficult. Any comments?
Gary Casey
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engine torque measurement |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 6/8/2003 6:33:23 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
glcasey@adelphia.net writes:
>
> I've often wondered if measuring the engine deflection in the engine mounts
> would be a practical method of determining torque. The idea would be to
> attach a position sensor to opposite cylinders, since that is a convenient
> location where two sensors could be placed as far from the centerline as
> possible and in the same plane as the crank. Engine mount deflection is not
> linear with applied and it probably changes significantly with time, but it
> might be a way to grasp a large enough signal to be practical. Common-mode
> effects due to G loading and thrust would presumably be cancelled. One
> could also use strain gages on the engine mount tubing, but the stresses are
> very low and because of the geometry canceling the common-mode effects would
> be difficult. Any comments?
>
> Gary Casey
>
>
On all the dyno's I have run there where several ways to monitor loads. On
the Stuska brake it was a fluid filled diaphram that send the fluid pressure to
the 12" gauge in the control room. You could suppress most engine pulses with
a inline needle valve. On the Superflow dyno's there is a electronic strain
gauge and you program out the pulses with their software. All dyno's have the
brake sitting on two rather large bearings and the force of the engine torque is
measured by monitoring the retarded and regulated rotation force loaded by
the brake. I would imagine a person could weld up a mount that incorperates a
similar set up with the motor sitting a a cradle with two rubber mounted large
bearing, one at each end of the engine. You can then weld a pad for the
strain gauge / load diaphram and get info from that. It would need to resist thrust
loads too. Just my two cents worth.
Ben Haas Haas Racing Products. Jackson Hole Wy. N801BH.
Message 3
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Nielsen" <mark.nielsen@fiedler-lp.com>
>>
>>
>>I use MS word and a 6 point font to print a sheet of labels, then cut
>>them up with scissors and insert the label between the shrink tubing
>>and the wire. Just about any printer and plain paper works great.
>>Regards, John Slade
>
> For an illustration of how this works, see:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/s817c.jpg
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/wiring.html#s816c
>
> Bob . . .
>
I recently rebuilt my instrument panel, and I used this method for wire
labels. Instead of printing the labels on plain paper however, I
printed them on self-stick return address labels (1/2" x 1 3/4", Avery
5267). I used one return address label for each wire label. The wire
designation (a number in my case) was printed 20 times on a single label
-- 5 columns of 4 rows (in 6 point font). I then cut the label between
the five columns. This gave me five labels for each wire -- one for
each end plus three spares. (Those of you who always do everything
exactly right the first time would have no need for the spares.)
I found it much easier to just wrap the self-stick label around the wire
and then add the heat-shrink tubing, rather than trying to coax an
uwilling plain-paper label under a piece of tubing. The self-stick
label makes a fairly decent wire label all by itself, without the
heat-shrink tubing. I used the labels without tubing to replace some of
the "flag" type labels that I used when I originally wired the airplane.
To print the labels, I used an Excel spreadsheet. By using a number for
each label, I was able to prepare all the labels that I needed, without
a lot of typing. I printed a whole sheet of 80 labels then cut it into
strips; each strip had 20 consecutively numbered labels. It did take
some fiddling to get the spreadsheet rows and columns setup to index
properly with the sheet of labels. If anyone wants a copy of my
spreadsheet, please contact me OFF LIST and I will send you one.
Mark Nielsen
RV-6; 812 hrs.
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Bob -
Do not archive
I had forgotten that I had downloaded the Standard Wire and Cable Catalog
from your site and it has all the sizes and shrink factors for hundreds of
shrink wraps. It also has the table you posted. Many thanks for the help
and next time I'll look there first.
John
O
> Here's an excerpt from the spec for Mil-W-22759/16
> wire . . . most commonly used for aircraft.
>
> http://216.55.140.222/temp/22759-16.pdf
>
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "iflyaa5" <iflyaa5@attbi.com>
I make the labels using a pTouch style labeler. They're easy to make and
stick to the wire while I slide and position the clear heat shrink into
place. Works very well.
Andy Morehouse
Grumman AA-5 N7167L
future RV builder
> Time: 06:20:16 AM PST US
> From: "Dean Head" <banana@atlantic.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire labels
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dean Head" <banana@atlantic.net>
>
> Hi,
> I am new to the list. I am building a Cozy MK4. I have seen some wire
labels
> that are printed on shrink tube. Are these labels available or do you need
> some sort of "printer" to make them?
> Thanks
> Dean Head
> Cozy MK4 #1040
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Engine torque measurement |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tom Schiff" <tomschiff@attbi.com>
I have heard that on the old big round engine airliners they leaned the
engine by using a gage that measured the engine output. It was either
torque or thrust. The engine was leaned for maximum output and just a
tad beyond (lean of peak). So they knew how to do what you want to
measure in the early 50s and therefore must be old technology. Might
look up how they did it. If all you are interested in is a relative
measurement my guess is that a few strain gages on the engine mounts
should do it.
If on the other hand you want a real accurate torque measurement it
might be more difficult.
Message 7
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| Subject: | D-Sub for Idiots |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "kc" <samdacat@elp.rr.com>
??Is there a "D-Sub for Idiots" publication available?? I want to utilize these
connectors. I think I understand where to buy pins, crimpers, and wire. I
think I know how to crimp and insert pins. BUT when it comes to connector shells
I am totally lost.
I am currently looking at an application that tells me to use a Female connector
to mate with a Male DB-25P. I find the recommenced source, Mouser, and enter
DB-25P in the search window. I immediately get 30 matches to my inquiry, all
different. ??What am I missing??
Message 8
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| Subject: | RE: Mom-on toggle |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@attbi.com>
Larry and Bob,
I looked up the Carling switch 6FB5H-73-XA, Allied stock # 683-5121, and find that
it is a ON-NONE-(0N) SPST unit. Larry, you intend to guard that switch with
the hinged cover which ensures that the toggle is down unless lifted to activate.
This means that the switch would be ON if I'm interpreting this correctly.
Two lines up in the catalog is the Allied stock # 683-5119 which is OFF-NONE-(ON).
Seems to me that this is what you want.
http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN896.pdf
Jim Foerster
Message 9
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tom..." <tsled@pacbell.net>
Here ya go with the Red cover:
http://www.kilbyenterprises.com/
Tom...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry
Bowen
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mom-on toggle
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
I'm looking for a off-(on) toggle switch for use as a starter engage
switch. Same functionality as the push button that Bob sells, but I
want the form-factor of the toggle switches. This will be used with the
red flip-guard. Anyone know a source? I guess one of the
three-position switches would work [xx-xx-(on)], but ...
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Engine torque measurement |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 6/8/03 7:06:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
tomschiff@attbi.com writes:
> I have heard that on the old big round engine airliners they leaned the
> engine by using a gage that measured the engine output. It was either
> torque or thrust. The engine was leaned for maximum output and just a
> tad beyond (lean of peak). So they knew how to do what you want to
> measure in the early 50s and therefore must be old technology.
Good Evening Tom,
Those were referred to as Torquemeters and they worked by measuring the
movement of the planetary ring gear in the reduction system. No reduction gearing,
no torquemeter. We not only used them for normal leaning, but to check that
the engine was producing normal power on every takeoff. They were every nice
things to have. As to leaning lean of peak, we leaned the Turbo Compound
R-3350 on the DC-7 ten percent lean of best power, advanced the spark and leaned
some more.
There is nothing new under the sun. Lindbergh did the same thing only he
didn't have a torque meter. However, he had the next best thing. He had a fixed
pitch prop. By developing the numbers on a test engine, he knew just how big
a drop he needed to get the engine into the best BSFC range.
The problem was the same back then as it is today, you had to get even fuel
distribution to successfully run the engine on the lean side.
Incidentally, I mentioned a few days ago that there has been development work
done on using strain gauges on the engine mounts to develop a low cost torque
meter. It would be nice to have.
Al Hundere developed the use of an EGT gauge because there wasn't any
reasonable way to get a low cost torque meter on our small engines. By running
an
engine on a test stand and noting the EGT readings at various mixtures and power
settings, we can approximate what was done on the old piston airliners. The
actual temperature read on the EGT gauge is basically immaterial. The
important thing is what it is telling you as to how far you are from best power.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
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