Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:04 AM - Re: wire labels (RSwanson)
2. 05:11 AM - Oil temp switch (Ian Scott)
3. 05:18 AM - Backup power source for ignition? ()
4. 06:01 AM - Re: Cable Tie Mounts (Ron Raby)
5. 06:02 AM - Re: wire labels (Billie Lamb)
6. 06:14 AM - Re: Re: Mom-on toggle (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 06:17 AM - Re: Oil Level Switch (Ed Anderson)
8. 06:23 AM - Re: wire labels (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 06:34 AM - Re: Backup power source for ignition? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 06:54 AM - Re: Oil Level Switch (klehman@albedo.net)
11. 07:22 AM - Re: Backup power source for ignition? ()
12. 07:24 AM - Re: Oil temp switch (Harold Kovac)
13. 07:32 AM - Re: wire labels (John Rourke)
14. 07:39 AM - Re: Oil Level Switch (Rogers, Bob J.)
15. 07:49 AM - Re: Cable Tie Mounts (Lockamy, Jack L NA)
16. 07:58 AM - Re: Oil Level Switch (Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD)
17. 08:22 AM - Re: Oil Level Switch (Ed Anderson)
18. 08:51 AM - Re: wire labels (Bob Kuc)
19. 10:41 AM - Re: wire labels (John Rourke)
20. 11:11 AM - GPS antenna question (Gilles.Thesee)
21. 11:42 AM - Re: GPS antenna question (Randy Pflanzer)
22. 12:12 PM - Re: GPS antenna question ()
23. 12:15 PM - Re: GPS antenna question ()
24. 12:34 PM - Re: GPS antenna question (Don Honabach)
25. 01:23 PM - Re: wire labels (Mike Heinen)
26. 01:24 PM - Re: GPS antenna question (Richard E. Tasker)
27. 01:53 PM - Re: GPS antenna question (David Carter)
28. 02:24 PM - Re: GPS antenna question (Scot Stambaugh)
29. 02:49 PM - Re: GPS antenna question ()
30. 02:50 PM - Re: GPS antenna question (Scott Bilinski)
31. 03:31 PM - Re: GPS antenna question (Alex Peterson)
32. 03:40 PM - Re: GPS antenna question (BobsV35B@aol.com)
33. 03:56 PM - Re: wire labels (RSwanson)
34. 05:18 PM - Re: GPS antenna question (Randy Pflanzer)
35. 06:53 PM - Re: GPS antenna question (Richard Sipp)
36. 07:35 PM - Re: Oil Level Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
37. 07:48 PM - cable tie mounts (BAKEROCB@aol.com)
38. 08:07 PM - Re: cable tie mounts (Steve Richard)
39. 08:36 PM - Oil Scavenge Pump Controller (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
40. 10:48 PM - Re: cable tie mounts (Werner Schneider)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RSwanson <rswan19@comcast.net>
Yes, I didn't think about that. I had forgotten that they also make paper
labels. Never even considered using them, all mine are laminated.
R
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rourke" <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke
<jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>
> I think you have to use the laminated labels, not the paper ones, for
> fairly good immunity to heat.. I tested the paper ones in my oven, they
> totally blacked out... I haven't tried the laminated ones yet though.
>
> -John R.
>
> RSwanson wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RSwanson <rswan19@comcast.net>
> >
> >Must be too much heat. I also used the PTouch for all my labels and had
no
> >problem. I didn't use a regular heatgun, but a MonoCoat heatgun left
over
> >from my RC days.
> >R
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Mark Means" <rgvelocity@lmf.net>
> >To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Means"
> >>
> >>
> ><rgvelocity@lmf.net>
> >
> >
> >>Time: 02:00:34 PM PST US
> >>From: "iflyaa5" <iflyaa5@attbi.com>
> >>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wire labels
> >>
> >>Andy,
> >>
> >>I tried the pTouch labels with heat shrink but found that being thermal
> >>
> >>
> >they would often turn black when shrinking the tubing. Maybe my heat gun
> >was too hot but I got frustrated after several attempts and gave up. Did
> >you have this problem, what is your secret?
> >
> >
> >>Mark Means
> >>
> >>
> >>I make the labels using a pTouch style labeler. They're easy to make
and
> >>stick to the wire while I slide and position the clear heat shrink into
> >>place. Works very well.
> >>
> >>Andy Morehouse
> >>Grumman AA-5 N7167L
> >>future RV builder
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ian Scott" <jabiru22@yahoo.com.au>
HI Bob and all,
I know that there are vicarious NO and NC temperature dependant switches
available, I was thinking of placing one on my sump (with a normal oil
temp pickup as well) in various temp ratings.
What epoxy would allow me to glue this to the sump?
Thinking of driving a overtemp buzzer and LED on a separate circuit to
the normal oil temp circuit.
Ian
Message 3
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| Subject: | Backup power source for ignition? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
Hi Gang,
I've been rewiring my RV6A that has a Chevy 4.3L V6 with dual point ignition.
I have completed the Always Hot Battery Buss with 7 amp ATC fuses running to each
ignition switch then to the coils. The ignition switches are about 2 inches
from the main bus and I wondered about the feasability of running a wire from
the main bus to the ignition switches for a redundant power supply. With the
fuses being unaccessable in flight located in the tail cone on the battery box
if the fuses both blow then it will get real quiet...
Would this be a bad idea? Would it need diodes to keep the 2 power sources isolated?
The power from the main bus could be fused abd switched as well??
Thanks,
Ned
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cable Tie Mounts |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron Raby" <ronr@advanceddesign.com>
Steve
Nelco products. 781-826-3010. Do you have the Panduit catalog? There are
many versions. that is the base #. I would recommend # TM1S6-C for most
cases. Fits medium tywrap # 6 mounting hole in the middle.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Richard" <steve@oasissolutions.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Cable Tie Mounts
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Richard"
<steve@oasissolutions.com>
>
> Ron,
>
> Where did you buy your mounts? Telephone number? I've tried Greybar, but
> they don't carry in-stock.
>
> Steve Richard
> steve@oasissolutions.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ron
> Raby
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cable Tie Mounts
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron Raby"
> <ronr@advanceddesign.com>
>
> I have been using varios panduit mounts. part#s TM1 TM2. I sand the back,
> put some Hysol on them and use a pop rivit to hold them while they dry.
>
> Ron Raby
>
> Lancair ES
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Richard" <steve@oasissolutions.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cable Tie Mounts
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Richard"
> <steve@oasissolutions.com>
> >
> > I'm building a fiberglass airplane. I'd like to use cable ties to hold
> most
> > of the wire. What is everyone using for cable tie mounts? Lanciar uses
> > click-bond at $1.65 each. Panduit has some for 90 cents each. Both
> appear
> > easy to install but expensive.
> >
> > Steve Richard
> > steve@oasissolutions.com
> >
> >
>
>
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Billie Lamb" <N254BL@cfl.rr.com>
I just finished wiring my Mustang II. I used the P touch labeler and used
the TZ tape. It will stand all the heat you want to give it with no
discoloration and the adhesive is adequate to hold it in place until you
shrink the tube over it. I used the small pencil propane torch to shrink all
the tubing and am quite satisfied with the finished product.
Bill Lamb
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rourke" <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke
<jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>
> I think you have to use the laminated labels, not the paper ones, for
> fairly good immunity to heat.. I tested the paper ones in my oven, they
> totally blacked out... I haven't tried the laminated ones yet though.
>
> -John R.
>
> RSwanson wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RSwanson <rswan19@comcast.net>
> >
> >Must be too much heat. I also used the PTouch for all my labels and had
no
> >problem. I didn't use a regular heatgun, but a MonoCoat heatgun left
over
> >from my RC days.
> >R
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Mark Means" <rgvelocity@lmf.net>
> >To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Means"
> >>
> >>
> ><rgvelocity@lmf.net>
> >
> >
> >>Time: 02:00:34 PM PST US
> >>From: "iflyaa5" <iflyaa5@attbi.com>
> >>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wire labels
> >>
> >>Andy,
> >>
> >>I tried the pTouch labels with heat shrink but found that being thermal
> >>
> >>
> >they would often turn black when shrinking the tubing. Maybe my heat gun
> >was too hot but I got frustrated after several attempts and gave up. Did
> >you have this problem, what is your secret?
> >
> >
> >>Mark Means
> >>
> >>
> >>I make the labels using a pTouch style labeler. They're easy to make and
> >>stick to the wire while I slide and position the clear heat shrink into
> >>place. Works very well.
> >>
> >>Andy Morehouse
> >>Grumman AA-5 N7167L
> >>future RV builder
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Mom-on toggle |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:44 PM 6/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
>
>I didn't see the option you pointed out before I ordered. Thanks. I hope
>the ones originally discussed will work. I had planned on not wiring the
>on position, just the (on) position. Won't this result in the same
>functionality?
Apparently you missed my earlier post on this item:
>Larry and Bob,
>I looked up the Carling switch 6FB5H-73-XA, Allied stock # 683-5121, and
>find that it is a ON-NONE-(0N) SPST unit. Larry, you intend to guard that
>switch with the hinged cover which ensures that the toggle is down unless
>lifted to activate. This means that the switch would be ON if I'm
>interpreting this correctly. Two lines up in the catalog is the Allied
>stock # 683-5119 which is OFF-NONE-(ON). Seems to me that this is what
>you want.
>
>http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN896.pdf
>
>Jim Foerster
An on-none-(on) switch simply means that the switch is
a single-pole, two-position switch with no center position
and electrical conductivity AVAILABLE in both extremes. Whether
you hook up to both is optional hence the opportunity to
wire the switch as (off)-none-on or off-none-(on) or
on-none-(on) . . . this is why we don't stock the off-xxx-(on)
versions of any switch . . . it just makes us stock
different configurations of switch while adding no utility
with respect to how the switch is used.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Level Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> > Last time I took on a similar
>
> Guys, There is way more to this oil return from the turbo then what you are
> thinking. First, the oil flow rate is way higher through a turbo. Most have a
> 3/16 to 1/4" line feeding them so figure a gallon a minute. Second, the oil
> coming out of a turbo that is spinning 100,000 to 130,000 rpm's a minute is not
a
> liquid. it is a foamy state and it needs to sit in a tank for some time to de
> emulsify so it can be pumped. Third, it is coming out of the turbo bearing
> housing at twice the oil temp then in your engine. You can figure oil temp out
> of a turbo to be in the 300 degree range. Now the real problem is finding a
> pump that can pump a foamy substance that is 300 degrees and at least at one
> gallon a minute and is electric powered. I researched this a few years back and
> couldn't come up with a pump. I would love to see your specs for all your
> componants. Of course this is just my opinion and thats coming from a guy who
is
> stuffing an all aluminum 349 cu in. stroker V-8 Ford into my Zenith 801.
>
> Ben Haas N801BH.
>
Hi Ben,
Regarding turbos and oil, as usual - it depends. The oil pressure needed to
keep a turbo happily lubricated ranges from approx 10-15 psi when at idle to
approx 45-60 psi at full gallop. However, the flow rate is not quite as much
as you indicated (at least not with the turbos I am familiar with) and will
seldom exceed 1/2 gallon/min for our size turbos (less than 3"dia wheels). Older
turbos (before water cooling) often did have large oil flow for cooling as
well as lubrication purposes - newer ones with water cooling generally have less
oil flow).
If you are not using a water cooled turbo then the oil temps can get a bit high
as the oil picks up heat off the turbine shaft and housing and can get up
around 60-80F above the inlet oil temp when at full boost, but the relative small
amount of oil so heated (when compared to the total oil capacity of the engine)
will seldom elevate the sump oil temp more than 5F-10F during boost. The
principal reason you see you oil temperature increase during boost is because
you engine is producing more power and therefore more waste heat
There is the exception, of course, and that is if you shut the engine down after
running the turbo hard - without letting the turbocharger cool down, then with
no new oil/oil movement through the turbocharger, the oil remaining can indeed
reach 300F or more and that will generally lead to a condition known as "coking"
of the shaft and ultimately to bearing/shaft wear and failure. The water
cooled turbos are generally not nearly as bad under those conditions as even
with the engine off the water will still tend to carry heat away from the turbocharger.
The oil temp should not exceed 250-260F and I highly recommend that
if you are using a turbo, then to use synthetic oil with its higher temperature
tolerance.
Totally agree about the foamy state of the oil as it drains from the turbo, one
of the reasons the turbos have such large drain orifices compared to the oil
inlet. So you also need a container/sump to collect the foamy oil and give it
a chance to settle out. Otherwise, as you indicate, it will be difficult for
any pump to pump frothy oil. However, a pint size container is generally sufficient
to accomplish this. I would recommend putting a slanting plate (drilled
with 1/8" dia holes) from near the oil entrance to approx 3/4 way down the
tank that spans the diameter of the tank. The oil inlet should be placed so
that the frothy oil drops onto this plate (splitting oil flow over both sides
of the plate as much as possible). This plate will induce the oil/air bubbles
to collapse releasing the oil to flow down the plate to the bottom of the tank
in liquid form to be pumped out by the scavenger pump.
Regarding the scavenger pump, I would recommend a diaphragm type pump or piston
type over a rotary. A rotary/vane impeller type pick up might have more trouble
if the oil were still a bit frothy than a diaphragm or piston type pump.
It needs to be a low-pressure, high volume type pump as all it needs to do it
pump the oil back into the engine sump. A recommend capacity is 1 1/2 times the
expected oil inflow. So if you expect 0.5/gpm of oil flow then a 1.5 gallon/min
pump should do the job.
Regarding turbos and aircraft, its important to verify that the change in operating
conditions (i.e. decrease in ambient pressure) as you climb in altitude does
not push your compressor wheel into the "surge" zone. If the boost pressure
is kept constant during the climb, then the pressure ratio of P1/P2 (P1 ambient,
P2boost) will increase as P1 decreases and that will move the operating
point vertically on most compressor maps (toward the surge zone on the left hand
side of the graph lines). FWIW
Ed Anderson
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:02 AM 6/10/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke
><jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>
>I think you have to use the laminated labels, not the paper ones, for
>fairly good immunity to heat.. I tested the paper ones in my oven, they
>totally blacked out... I haven't tried the laminated ones yet though.
>
>-John R.
Not sure what is being referred to by "laminated" and "paper"
labels here. I have a label maker that puts out adhesive backed
tape which uses a thermal process to print the text . . . totally
unsuited to this task. Whole label goes black under the heat shrink.
Further, I've not seen any label maker that puts out a label small
enough to use on 22AWG wire.
See picture at http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/s817c.jpg
The wire at the top is 22AWG . . . the type is a single row of
6pt.
Labels printed on ordinary paper (or Avery label material) in a
laser or inkjet printer are fine (caution on using colored lettering
from inkjet . . . some inks are not fade resistant . . . your numbers
may disappear with time).
The Avery label material is not suggested for its ability to hold
the label on the wire . . . you will find that when you put a
label on a 22AWG wire, the label will consist of a single line
of 6pt type. This skinny piece of paper is easier to work with
if it sorta sticks to the wire while you pull the heat shrink over
it. Once the heat shrink is centered over the label, it doesn't
matter if the label has adhesive on it or not.
On FAT wires, a column of numbers can be wrapped around the wire
and again, an adhesive backing can hold the label in place while
the heat shrink slides over it.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Backup power source for ignition? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:17 AM 6/10/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
>
>Hi Gang,
>
>I've been rewiring my RV6A that has a Chevy 4.3L V6 with dual point
>ignition. I have completed the Always Hot Battery Buss with 7 amp ATC
>fuses running to each ignition switch then to the coils. The ignition
>switches are about 2 inches from the main bus and I wondered about the
>feasability of running a wire from the main bus to the ignition switches
>for a redundant power supply. With the fuses being unaccessable in flight
>located in the tail cone on the battery box if the fuses both blow then
>it will get real quiet...
If you DO blow two fuses, what is likelihood that replacing
either of them will make things get noisier? 7A circuits are
generally quite robust with respect to actual power required
to run an ignition system . . . these fuses are not going
to nuisance trip.
>Would this be a bad idea? Would it need diodes to keep the 2 power
>sources isolated? The power from the main bus could be fused abd switched
>as well??
>
>Thanks,
>Ned
If you have two ignition systems, will EITHER run the engine
independently of
the other? If so, consider two batteries, one for each ignition. The
second battery doesn't have to be a big one. Are you using one of
the Z-figures as a baseline distribution diagram?
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Level Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: klehman@albedo.net
Yup, I for one won't be available for a ride in such a setup ;(
However for a somewhat different approach, "TurboTom" has been flying an
ej22 where the engine sucks oil from a remote oil tank that sits lower
than the normal crankcase. Essentially he has lowered the oil pan and
separated it from the engine. Think he trashed the first engine when the
suction line collapsed but last I heard his setup was working fine.
Ken
>I am planning to have a small container to catch the oil draining from the
> >turbocharger on my Mazda RX-7 Rotary engine (which is converted for
> aircraft
> >use on the Mustang II kitplane that I am building) and will use an
electric
> >oil pump to transfer the oil from the container back to the engine
> >crankcase. This is necessary because my aftermarket turbo is
mounted too
> >low for a gravity drain-back. The electric pump only needs to
operate long
> >enough to pump oil out of the container when it gets full and stop
when the
> >container is empty.
> >
> >What I am looking for is some sort of a sensor/switch that will
detect when
> >the oil level is at the top of the container to turn the pump on,
and will
> >detect when the oil level is at the bottom of the container to turn the
> pump
> >off. I have seen several devices/methods to turn a switch on when
the oil
> >gets too low, but what I need is just the opposite and it needs to
> >detect/switch at maximum and minimum levels.
> >
> >Does anyone have suggestions or ideas regarding an oil level sensor
with a
> >switch that works as described above?
>
> Last time I took on a similar
Guys, There is way more to this oil return from the turbo then what you are
thinking. First, the oil flow rate is way higher through a turbo. Most
have a
3/16 to 1/4" line feeding them so figure a gallon a minute. Second, the oil
coming out of a turbo that is spinning 100,000 to 130,000 rpm's a minute
is not
a
liquid. it is a foamy state and it needs to sit in a tank for some time
to de
emulsify so it can be pumped. Third, it is coming out of the turbo bearing
housing at twice the oil temp then in your engine. You can figure oil
temp out
of a turbo to be in the 300 degree range. Now the real problem is finding a
pump that can pump a foamy substance that is 300 degrees and at least at
one
gallon a minute and is electric powered. I researched this a few years
back and
couldn't come up with a pump. I would love to see your specs for all your
componants. Of course this is just my opinion and thats coming from a
guy who is
stuffing an all aluminum 349 cu in. stroker V-8 Ford into my Zenith 801.
Ben Haas N801BH.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Backup power source for ignition? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
Good point Bob. I'll just Keep It Simple.
Thanks,
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Backup power source for ignition?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 07:17 AM 6/10/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
> >
> >Hi Gang,
> >
> >I've been rewiring my RV6A that has a Chevy 4.3L V6 with dual point
> >ignition. I have completed the Always Hot Battery Buss with 7 amp ATC
> >fuses running to each ignition switch then to the coils. The ignition
> >switches are about 2 inches from the main bus and I wondered about the
> >feasability of running a wire from the main bus to the ignition switches
> >for a redundant power supply. With the fuses being unaccessable in flight
> >located in the tail cone on the battery box if the fuses both blow then
> >it will get real quiet...
>
> If you DO blow two fuses, what is likelihood that replacing
> either of them will make things get noisier? 7A circuits are
> generally quite robust with respect to actual power required
> to run an ignition system . . . these fuses are not going
> to nuisance trip.
>
>
> >Would this be a bad idea? Would it need diodes to keep the 2 power
> >sources isolated? The power from the main bus could be fused abd
switched
> >as well??
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Ned
>
> If you have two ignition systems, will EITHER run the engine
> independently of
> the other? If so, consider two batteries, one for each ignition. The
> second battery doesn't have to be a big one. Are you using one of
> the Z-figures as a baseline distribution diagram?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> --------------------------------------------
> ( Knowing about a thing is different than )
> ( understanding it. One can know a lot )
> ( and still understand nothing. )
> ( C.F. Kettering )
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Oil temp switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Harold Kovac" <kayce@sysmatrix.net>
did you mean various?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Scott" <jabiru22@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Oil temp switch
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ian Scott"
<jabiru22@yahoo.com.au>
>
> HI Bob and all,
>
> I know that there are vicarious NO and NC temperature dependant switches
> available, I was thinking of placing one on my sump (with a normal oil
> temp pickup as well) in various temp ratings.
>
> What epoxy would allow me to glue this to the sump?
>
> Thinking of driving a overtemp buzzer and LED on a separate circuit to
> the normal oil temp circuit.
>
> Ian
>
>
Message 13
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
Right. The TZ-types are all laminated, I believe, and some are specially
designed to resist chemicals as well, if I recall their catalog info
correctly... BTW, Sam's Club has the tapes in a multi-pack now, 3 for
$25 (Clear, White and Yellow, 26.2' each, 1/2-in wide) or so.... I'm not
sure if there's better deals out there, but I believe they are usually
$12-15 apiece?
I believe all the model types PT-1100 and above use laminated tapes (TZ-
and other types); while the cheaper ones (PT-65 and below) use the
M-type tapes, which are all paper.
-John R.
Billie Lamb wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Billie Lamb" <N254BL@cfl.rr.com>
>
>I just finished wiring my Mustang II. I used the P touch labeler and used
>the TZ tape. It will stand all the heat you want to give it with no
>discoloration and the adhesive is adequate to hold it in place until you
>shrink the tube over it. I used the small pencil propane torch to shrink all
>the tubing and am quite satisfied with the finished product.
>
>
>Bill Lamb
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John Rourke" <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
>
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke
>>
>>
><jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>
>
>>I think you have to use the laminated labels, not the paper ones, for
>>fairly good immunity to heat.. I tested the paper ones in my oven, they
>>totally blacked out... I haven't tried the laminated ones yet though.
>>
>>-John R.
>>
>>RSwanson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RSwanson <rswan19@comcast.net>
>>>
>>>Must be too much heat. I also used the PTouch for all my labels and had
>>>
>>>
>no
>
>
>>>problem. I didn't use a regular heatgun, but a MonoCoat heatgun left
>>>
>>>
>over
>
>
>>>from my RC days.
>>
>>
>>>R
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Mark Means" <rgvelocity@lmf.net>
>>>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Means"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>><rgvelocity@lmf.net>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Time: 02:00:34 PM PST US
>>>>From: "iflyaa5" <iflyaa5@attbi.com>
>>>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wire labels
>>>>
>>>>Andy,
>>>>
>>>>I tried the pTouch labels with heat shrink but found that being thermal
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>they would often turn black when shrinking the tubing. Maybe my heat gun
>>>was too hot but I got frustrated after several attempts and gave up. Did
>>>you have this problem, what is your secret?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Mark Means
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I make the labels using a pTouch style labeler. They're easy to make and
>>>>stick to the wire while I slide and position the clear heat shrink into
>>>>place. Works very well.
>>>>
>>>>Andy Morehouse
>>>>Grumman AA-5 N7167L
>>>>future RV builder
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Oil Level Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers@FDIC.gov>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rogers, Bob J."
<BRogers@FDIC.gov>
>
>I am planning to have a small container to catch the oil draining from the
>turbocharger on my Mazda RX-7 Rotary engine (which is converted for
>aircraft use on the Mustang II kitplane that I am building) and will use an
>electric oil pump to transfer the oil from the container back to the engine
>crankcase. This is necessary because my aftermarket turbo is mounted too
>low for a gravity drain-back. The electric pump only needs to operate long
>enough to pump oil out of the container when it gets full and stop when the
>container is empty.
>
>What I am looking for is some sort of a sensor/switch that will detect when
>the oil level is at the top of the container to turn the pump on, and will
>detect when the oil level is at the bottom of the container to turn the
>pump off. I have seen several devices/methods to turn a switch on when the
>oil gets too low, but what I need is just the opposite and it needs to
>detect/switch at maximum and minimum levels.
>
>Does anyone have suggestions or ideas regarding an oil level sensor with a
>switch that works as described above?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Last time I took on a similar project, it turned out to be
more practical to just put a timer on the pump. Run it for
so many minutes out of every hour. No switches to procure,
calibrate, maintain or fail to work. Figure out what the
max oil flow rate is to be expected. Triple or quadruple that
number. I suspect you can pump that amount of liquid in
a minute or so with even a small pump. I designed the timer
so that it ran the prescribed period of time at first power-up
and then once per hour after that at long as power stayed on.
Bob . . .
Thanks for the excellent suggestion! Using a timer should work, since the
flow of oil out of the turbo is pretty constant (especially at cruise power
settings). I found a timer that looks like it would be suitable from
Artisan http://www.artisancontrols.com/pdf/4615.pdf Model # 4615A-2-3-A
and the scavenge pump is from Westech.
http://westech.home.mindspring.com/home.htm
I have two additional questions. The timer requires external potentiometers
to set the duty cycles. Do you have any suggestions as to the best or
proper type of potentiometer to use?
Secondly, I want to know when the pump is running by having a small light on
the panel come on. I know that if I hook a light bulb in parallel with the
pump, I will know when the timer switch is on, but not necessarily if the
pump is actually running. How do I hook up a small light bulb in a circuit
that detects when electricity is actually passing through the scavenge pump
motor?
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Cable Tie Mounts |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lockamy, Jack L NA" <jack.lockamy@navy.mil>
Avery Tools (www.averytools.com) sells packages of 25 for $5.50.
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
RV-7AQB
Message 16
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| Subject: | Oil Level Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD <John.Livingston@wpafb.af.mil>
Do you really need this second sump? Wouldn't the oil be pushed back up into the
engine sump by the oil pumped to the turbocharger?
-----Original Message-----
From: Rogers, Bob J. [mailto:BRogers@fdic.gov]
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Oil Level Switch
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers@FDIC.gov>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rogers, Bob J."
<BRogers@FDIC.gov>
>
>I am planning to have a small container to catch the oil draining from the
>turbocharger on my Mazda RX-7 Rotary engine (which is converted for
>aircraft use on the Mustang II kitplane that I am building) and will use an
>electric oil pump to transfer the oil from the container back to the engine
>crankcase. This is necessary because my aftermarket turbo is mounted too
>low for a gravity drain-back. The electric pump only needs to operate long
>enough to pump oil out of the container when it gets full and stop when the
>container is empty.
>
>What I am looking for is some sort of a sensor/switch that will detect when
>the oil level is at the top of the container to turn the pump on, and will
>detect when the oil level is at the bottom of the container to turn the
>pump off. I have seen several devices/methods to turn a switch on when the
>oil gets too low, but what I need is just the opposite and it needs to
>detect/switch at maximum and minimum levels.
>
>Does anyone have suggestions or ideas regarding an oil level sensor with a
>switch that works as described above?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Last time I took on a similar project, it turned out to be
more practical to just put a timer on the pump. Run it for
so many minutes out of every hour. No switches to procure,
calibrate, maintain or fail to work. Figure out what the
max oil flow rate is to be expected. Triple or quadruple that
number. I suspect you can pump that amount of liquid in
a minute or so with even a small pump. I designed the timer
so that it ran the prescribed period of time at first power-up
and then once per hour after that at long as power stayed on.
Bob . . .
Thanks for the excellent suggestion! Using a timer should work, since the
flow of oil out of the turbo is pretty constant (especially at cruise power
settings). I found a timer that looks like it would be suitable from
Artisan http://www.artisancontrols.com/pdf/4615.pdf Model # 4615A-2-3-A
and the scavenge pump is from Westech.
http://westech.home.mindspring.com/home.htm
I have two additional questions. The timer requires external potentiometers
to set the duty cycles. Do you have any suggestions as to the best or
proper type of potentiometer to use?
Secondly, I want to know when the pump is running by having a small light on
the panel come on. I know that if I hook a light bulb in parallel with the
pump, I will know when the timer switch is on, but not necessarily if the
pump is actually running. How do I hook up a small light bulb in a circuit
that detects when electricity is actually passing through the scavenge pump
motor?
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Level Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Oil Level Switch
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
>
> > > Last time I took on a similar
> >
> > Guys, There is way more to this oil return from the turbo then what you are
> > thinking. First, the oil flow rate is way higher through a turbo. Most have
a
> > 3/16 to 1/4" line feeding them so figure a gallon a minute. Second, the oil
> > coming out of a turbo that is spinning 100,000 to 130,000 rpm's a minute is
not a
> > liquid. it is a foamy state and it needs to sit in a tank for some time to
de
> > emulsify so it can be pumped. Third, it is coming out of the turbo bearing
> > housing at twice the oil temp then in your engine. You can figure oil temp
out
> > of a turbo to be in the 300 degree range. Now the real problem is finding a
> > pump that can pump a foamy substance that is 300 degrees and at least at one
> > gallon a minute and is electric powered. I researched this a few years back
and
> > couldn't come up with a pump. I would love to see your specs for all your
> > componants. Of course this is just my opinion and thats coming from a guy who
is
> > stuffing an all aluminum 349 cu in. stroker V-8 Ford into my Zenith 801.
> >
> > Ben Haas N801BH.
> >
> Hi Ben,
>
> Regarding turbos and oil, as usual - it depends. The oil pressure needed
to keep a turbo happily lubricated ranges from approx 10-15 psi when at idle
to approx 45-60 psi at full gallop. However, the flow rate is not quite as much
as you indicated (at least not with the turbos I am familiar with) and will
seldom exceed 1/2 gallon/min for our size turbos (less than 3"dia wheels).
Older turbos (before water cooling) often did have large oil flow for cooling
as well as lubrication purposes - newer ones with water cooling generally have
less oil flow).
>
> If you are not using a water cooled turbo then the oil temps can get a bit
high as the oil picks up heat off the turbine shaft and housing and can get
up around 60-80F above the inlet oil temp when at full boost, but the relative
small amount of oil so heated (when compared to the total oil capacity of the
engine) will seldom elevate the sump oil temp more than 5F-10F during boost.
The principal reason you see you oil temperature increase during boost is because
you engine is producing more power and therefore more waste heat
>
> There is the exception, of course, and that is if you shut the engine down after
running the turbo hard - without letting the turbocharger cool down, then
with no new oil/oil movement through the turbocharger, the oil remaining can
indeed reach 300F or more and that will generally lead to a condition known as
"coking" of the shaft and ultimately to bearing/shaft wear and failure. The
water cooled turbos are generally not nearly as bad under those conditions as
even with the engine off the water will still tend to carry heat away from the
turbocharger. The oil temp should not exceed 250-260F and I highly recommend
that if you are using a turbo, then to use synthetic oil with its higher temperature
tolerance.
>
> Totally agree about the foamy state of the oil as it drains from the turbo, one
of the reasons the turbos have such large drain orifices compared to the oil
inlet. So you also need a container/sump to collect the foamy oil and give
it a chance to settle out. Otherwise, as you indicate, it will be difficult
for any pump to pump frothy oil. However, a pint size container is generally
sufficient to accomplish this. I would recommend putting a slanting plate (drilled
with 1/8" dia holes) from near the oil entrance to approx 3/4 way down
the tank that spans the diameter of the tank. The oil inlet should be placed
so that the frothy oil drops onto this plate (splitting oil flow over both sides
of the plate as much as possible). This plate will induce the oil/air bubbles
to collapse releasing the oil to flow down the plate to the bottom of the
tank in liquid form to be pumped out by the scavenger pump.
>
> Regarding the scavenger pump, I would recommend a diaphragm type pump or piston
type over a rotary. A rotary/vane impeller type pick up might have more trouble
if the oil were still a bit frothy than a diaphragm or piston type pump.
It needs to be a low-pressure, high volume type pump as all it needs to do it
pump the oil back into the engine sump. A recommend capacity is 1 1/2 times
the expected oil inflow. So if you expect 0.5/gpm of oil flow then a 1.5 gallon/min
pump should do the job.
>
> Regarding turbos and aircraft, its important to verify that the change in operating
conditions (i.e. decrease in ambient pressure) as you climb in altitude
does not push your compressor wheel into the "surge" zone. If the boost pressure
is kept constant during the climb, then the pressure ratio of P1/P2 (P1
ambient, P2boost) will increase as P1 decreases and that will move the operating
point vertically on most compressor maps (toward the surge zone on the left
hand side of the graph lines). FWIW
>
OOPS! The above should read P2/P1 vice P1/P2.
> Ed Anderson
>
>
>
Message 18
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1@tampabay.rr.com>
I just use word, and the Lucida 9 pt font because of the character shapes,
and create 9 labels across. I usually have two of each end of the wire, but
would use others where there are slices and such. I use an ink jet on plain
paper. Once I print them out, I cut to a size, just a little longer and
wider that the label text. I place that label on clear tape to protect the
ink. I then roll the clear tape on the wire. The goal is to get it
wrapped around the wire and really protect the label from the elements. I
then use shrink tubing over that. This give the hard protection seems to
work well for me. Because of the wire insulation does not stick well to the
tape, I am able to move the label around as needed.
Bob
Message 19
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
I haven't tried to use the P-Touch TZ-tapes for wiring myself yet; I
got a labeler when this topic first went round 6 months ago and (because
I was cheap and bought the low-end labeler, the PT-65...) discovered
exactly what you say - the M-type tape it uses is totally unsuited for
wiring - I almost returned it, but find it handy around the office so
that's what I use it for now - although if my office burns up, I'll be
in a real pickle trying to identify the ashes, because all the labels
will turn completely black! ;-)
But, I did a little more research, and discovered the TZ-tapes, used by
the higher-end labelers, are much more resistant to heat... but I hadn't
tested them in the oven, so I just did now - 400 degrees F for 1 hour
has no effect - and I doubt that anywhere even in the engine compartment
(other than mounting directly on the cylinders or exhaust) will ever see
400 degrees... I really got the black-on-clear tape for labeling the
instrument panel, but now it looks like they could be used for wiring
too, apparently even in the engine compartment (although I don't think
I'd label the EGT leads!). And it's definitely more convenient than
laser printing, when you want to make a label on the spot.
-John R.
(p.s.: apparently I was wrong about the "M" tapes being paper - their
website says they are METAL! (??) I don't know if I'd really believe
that (they tear like paper), but it did react very strangely in the oven
- it actually swells and puffs up! - and no, I'm not going to try it in
the microwave!!)
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>At 01:02 AM 6/10/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke
>><jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>>
>>I think you have to use the laminated labels, not the paper ones, for
>>fairly good immunity to heat.. I tested the paper ones in my oven, they
>>totally blacked out... I haven't tried the laminated ones yet though.
>>
>>-John R.
>>
>>
>
> Not sure what is being referred to by "laminated" and "paper"
> labels here. I have a label maker that puts out adhesive backed
> tape which uses a thermal process to print the text . . . totally
> unsuited to this task. Whole label goes black under the heat shrink.
> Further, I've not seen any label maker that puts out a label small
> enough to use on 22AWG wire.
>
> See picture at http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/s817c.jpg
> The wire at the top is 22AWG . . . the type is a single row of
> 6pt.
>
> Labels printed on ordinary paper (or Avery label material) in a
> laser or inkjet printer are fine (caution on using colored lettering
> from inkjet . . . some inks are not fade resistant . . . your numbers
> may disappear with time).
>
> The Avery label material is not suggested for its ability to hold
> the label on the wire . . . you will find that when you put a
> label on a 22AWG wire, the label will consist of a single line
> of 6pt type. This skinny piece of paper is easier to work with
> if it sorta sticks to the wire while you pull the heat shrink over
> it. Once the heat shrink is centered over the label, it doesn't
> matter if the label has adhesive on it or not.
>
> On FAT wires, a column of numbers can be wrapped around the wire
> and again, an adhesive backing can hold the label in place while
> the heat shrink slides over it.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | GPS antenna question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Hi Bob and all,
Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do you think of
the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
Pros :
- No additional drag
- Short coax run
Cons :
-Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why is it
forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
-What other inconvenients do you see ?
Any advice appreciated,
Thanks
Gilles
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Randy Pflanzer <F1Rocket@comcast.net>
Here's another option. Mount it to the engine side of your firewall,
at the top, on a plate that points it up toward the sky. It will sit
underneath your fiberglass cowl. That way, it is not in the slipstream
(it's not visible at all) and the coax run is still short. Many RV'ers
do it this way.
Randy
F1 Rocket
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee"
> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Hi Bob and all,
>
> Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do
> you think of
> the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
> Pros :
> - No additional drag
> - Short coax run
>
> Cons :
> -Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why
> is it
> forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
> -What other inconvenients do you see ?
>
> Any advice appreciated,
> Thanks
>
> Gilles
>
>
> _-
>
======================================================================_-
= - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
> _-
>
======================================================================_-
= !! NEWish !!
> _-
>
======================================================================_-
= List Related Information
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <racker@rmci.net>
Gilles,
Active gain, small, black, cheap. Mounted on my glareshield, works perfect:
http://www.lowe-electronics.com/acatalog/Lowe_Electronics_Accessories_24.html
Rob Acker (RV-6, 34 hrs)
> Hi Bob and all,
>
> Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do you
> think of the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
> Pros :
> - No additional drag
> - Short coax run
>
> Cons :
> -Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why is it
> forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
> -What other inconvenients do you see ?
>
> Any advice appreciated,
> Thanks
>
> Gilles
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <racker@rmci.net>
Forgot one detail, make sure you remove the mounting magnets first
(otherwise your compass goes crazy, ask me how I know <g>).
Rob.
> Gilles,
>
> Active gain, small, black, cheap. Mounted on my glareshield, works
> perfect:
>
> http://www.lowe-electronics.com/acatalog/Lowe_Electronics_Accessories_24.html
>
> Rob Acker (RV-6, 34 hrs)
Message 24
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| Subject: | GPS antenna question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>> Mount it to the engine side of your firewall...
Would of never thought of that in a million years. Thanks for sharing...
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Pflanzer [mailto:F1Rocket@comcast.net]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Randy Pflanzer
--> <F1Rocket@comcast.net>
Here's another option. Mount it to the engine side of your firewall,
at the top, on a plate that points it up toward the sky. It will sit
underneath your fiberglass cowl. That way, it is not in the slipstream
(it's not visible at all) and the coax run is still short. Many RV'ers
do it this way.
Randy
F1 Rocket
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee"
> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Hi Bob and all,
>
> Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do
> you think of
> the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
> Pros :
> - No additional drag
> - Short coax run
>
> Cons :
> -Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why
> is it
> forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
> -What other inconvenients do you see ?
>
> Any advice appreciated,
> Thanks
>
> Gilles
>
>
> _-
>
======================================================================_-
= - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
> _-
>
======================================================================_-
= !! NEWish !!
> _-
>
======================================================================_-
= List Related Information
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
>
>
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 25
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Heinen" <mjheinen@adelphia.net>
I have a Kroy pc-3000 that prints on shrink wrap. If you buy enough cartages
they give you the printer free. You have a choice of a stand alone printer
with built in fonts or the PC-3000 prints in any font you have on your
computer as well as any graphic (gray scale) can be printed on multiple size
and types of labels as well as heat shrink tubes and wire wraps. I suppose a
few builders could go together and buy a cartage or two and then send the
printer around the block!
Not sure if I can mention where I got mine but Hanover Technical was the
place and Don Lovette will work with you to come up with what you need. Very
helpful.
http://members.tripod.com/~HANOVER_TECHNICAL/
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Make sure that the top of the antenna is still "up". May complicate the
mount, but essential for proper operation.
Dick Tasker
Don Honabach wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>
>
>
>>>Mount it to the engine side of your firewall...
>>>
>>>
>
>Would of never thought of that in a million years. Thanks for sharing...
>
>Don
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Randy Pflanzer [mailto:F1Rocket@comcast.net]
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Randy Pflanzer
>--> <F1Rocket@comcast.net>
>
>Here's another option. Mount it to the engine side of your firewall,
>at the top, on a plate that points it up toward the sky. It will sit
>underneath your fiberglass cowl. That way, it is not in the slipstream
>(it's not visible at all) and the coax run is still short. Many RV'ers
>do it this way.
>
>Randy
>F1 Rocket
>http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>Date: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 1:11 pm
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee"
>><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>>
>>Hi Bob and all,
>>
>>Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do
>>you think of
>>the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
>>Pros :
>>- No additional drag
>>- Short coax run
>>
>>Cons :
>>-Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why
>>is it
>>forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
>>-What other inconvenients do you see ?
>>
>>Any advice appreciated,
>>Thanks
>>
>>Gilles
>>
>>
>>_-
>>
>>
>>
>======================================================================_-
>= - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
>
>
>>_-
>>
>>
>>
>======================================================================_-
>= !! NEWish !!
>
>
>>_-
>>
>>
>>
>======================================================================_-
>= List Related Information
>
>
>>_-
>>======================================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Rob,
Which item (antenna) on that web page did you buy? The descriptions aren't
very robust when you click on each item - some are cigarette lighter power
adapters, 2nd from top on left is an antenna - didn't click all the rest.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: <racker@rmci.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <racker@rmci.net>
>
> Gilles,
>
> Active gain, small, black, cheap. Mounted on my glareshield, works
perfect:
>
>
http://www.lowe-electronics.com/acatalog/Lowe_Electronics_Accessories_24.html
>
> Rob Acker (RV-6, 34 hrs)
>
>
> > Hi Bob and all,
> >
> > Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do you
> > think of the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
> > Pros :
> > - No additional drag
> > - Short coax run
> >
> > Cons :
> > -Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why is it
> > forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
> > -What other inconvenients do you see ?
> >
> > Any advice appreciated,
> > Thanks
> >
> > Gilles
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scot Stambaugh <sstambaugh@qualcomm.com>
You also want it as high as you can get it without having it rub against
the inside of the cowl. The goal is to give the antenna a "view" of the
entire sky including the horizon, or as much of it as possible. The metal
of the firewall and boot cowl block the signal from the rear of the
airplane but you can get a bit more angle and view of the aft horizon if
you move the antenna forward, away from the firewall. GPS satellites that
are lower in the sky provide more accurate position data in the x-y
plane. Satellites high in the sky provide better altitude information,
which isn't as useful.
scot
At 04:23 PM 6/10/2003 -0400, Richard E. Tasker wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker"
><retasker@optonline.net>
>
>Make sure that the top of the antenna is still "up". May complicate the
>mount, but essential for proper operation.
>
>Dick Tasker
>
>Don Honabach wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
> >
> >
> >
> >>>Mount it to the engine side of your firewall...
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >Would of never thought of that in a million years. Thanks for sharing...
> >
> >Don
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Randy Pflanzer [mailto:F1Rocket@comcast.net]
> >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
> >
> >
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Randy Pflanzer
> >--> <F1Rocket@comcast.net>
> >
> >Here's another option. Mount it to the engine side of your firewall,
> >at the top, on a plate that points it up toward the sky. It will sit
> >underneath your fiberglass cowl. That way, it is not in the slipstream
> >(it's not visible at all) and the coax run is still short. Many RV'ers
> >do it this way.
> >
> >Randy
> >F1 Rocket
> >http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> >Date: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 1:11 pm
> >Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee"
> >><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> >>
> >>Hi Bob and all,
> >>
> >>Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do
> >>you think of
> >>the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
> >>Pros :
> >>- No additional drag
> >>- Short coax run
> >>
> >>Cons :
> >>-Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why
> >>is it
> >>forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
> >>-What other inconvenients do you see ?
> >>
> >>Any advice appreciated,
> >>Thanks
> >>
> >>Gilles
> >>
> >>
> >>_-
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >======================================================================_-
> >= - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
> >
> >
> >>_-
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >======================================================================_-
> >= !! NEWish !!
> >
> >
> >>_-
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >======================================================================_-
> >= List Related Information
> >
> >
> >>_-
> >>======================================================================
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <racker@rmci.net>
Dave,
You are probably clicking on the links to other items (at the top of the
page). Scroll down to the bottom of the page, you will see two pics of
the antenna (MCX and BNC connector versions).
Rob.
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter"
> <dcarter@datarecall.net>
>
> Rob,
>
> Which item (antenna) on that web page did you buy? The descriptions
> aren't very robust when you click on each item - some are cigarette
> lighter power adapters, 2nd from top on left is an antenna - didn't
> click all the rest.
>
> David
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <racker@rmci.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <racker@rmci.net>
>>
>> Gilles,
>>
>> Active gain, small, black, cheap. Mounted on my glareshield, works
> perfect:
>>
>>
> http://www.lowe-electronics.com/acatalog/Lowe_Electronics_Accessories_24.html
>>
>> Rob Acker (RV-6, 34 hrs)
>>
>>
>> > Hi Bob and all,
>> >
>> > Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do you
>> think of the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
>> > Pros :
>> > - No additional drag
>> > - Short coax run
>> >
>> > Cons :
>> > -Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why is
>> it forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
>> > -What other inconvenients do you see ?
>> >
>> > Any advice appreciated,
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Gilles
>>
>>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Wont engine compartment heat affect the GPS antenna over time?
At 03:53 PM 6/10/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter"
><dcarter@datarecall.net>
>
>Rob,
>
>Which item (antenna) on that web page did you buy? The descriptions aren't
>very robust when you click on each item - some are cigarette lighter power
>adapters, 2nd from top on left is an antenna - didn't click all the rest.
>
>David
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <racker@rmci.net>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <racker@rmci.net>
>>
>> Gilles,
>>
>> Active gain, small, black, cheap. Mounted on my glareshield, works
>perfect:
>>
>>
>http://www.lowe-electronics.com/acatalog/Lowe_Electronics_Accessories_24.html
>>
>> Rob Acker (RV-6, 34 hrs)
>>
>>
>> > Hi Bob and all,
>> >
>> > Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do you
>> > think of the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
>> > Pros :
>> > - No additional drag
>> > - Short coax run
>> >
>> > Cons :
>> > -Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why is it
>> > forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
>> > -What other inconvenients do you see ?
>> >
>> > Any advice appreciated,
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Gilles
>>
>>
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 31
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| Subject: | GPS antenna question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
> Won't engine compartment heat affect the GPS antenna over time?
>
It most definitely affect the antenna, the only question is how much. I
would defy anyone to find a method of measuring the lost airspeed caused
by a tear drop shaped GPS antenna when it is mounted on the turtledeck.
My GPS antenna cost a lot of money, and I would not really want to
subject it to 200 degree temps on a regular basis. Probably won't hurt
it, but for what gain?
Another consideration is that most paint colors contain metal oxides,
which will attenuate the signal some non-zero amount. Again, might not
be much, but for what gain?
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 308 hours
www.rvforum.org
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 6/10/03 5:32:34 PM Central Daylight Time,
alexpeterson@usjet.net writes:
> Another consideration is that most paint colors contain metal oxides,
> which will attenuate the signal some non-zero amount. Again, might not
> be much, but for what gain?
>
Good Evening All,
Many folks have very successfully placed a GPS antenna beneath the fabric on
fabric covered airplanes. I have seen it on Staggerwings and I tried it on my
Piper Pacer. Worked great!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Message 33
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RSwanson <rswan19@comcast.net>
They also sell black TZ labels with white letters. That's what I used on
my panel, since it was flat black.
R
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rourke" <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke
<jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>
> I haven't tried to use the P-Touch TZ-tapes for wiring myself yet; I
> got a labeler when this topic first went round 6 months ago and (because
> I was cheap and bought the low-end labeler, the PT-65...) discovered
> exactly what you say - the M-type tape it uses is totally unsuited for
> wiring - I almost returned it, but find it handy around the office so
> that's what I use it for now - although if my office burns up, I'll be
> in a real pickle trying to identify the ashes, because all the labels
> will turn completely black! ;-)
>
> But, I did a little more research, and discovered the TZ-tapes, used by
> the higher-end labelers, are much more resistant to heat... but I hadn't
> tested them in the oven, so I just did now - 400 degrees F for 1 hour
> has no effect - and I doubt that anywhere even in the engine compartment
> (other than mounting directly on the cylinders or exhaust) will ever see
> 400 degrees... I really got the black-on-clear tape for labeling the
> instrument panel, but now it looks like they could be used for wiring
> too, apparently even in the engine compartment (although I don't think
> I'd label the EGT leads!). And it's definitely more convenient than
> laser printing, when you want to make a label on the spot.
>
> -John R.
>
> (p.s.: apparently I was wrong about the "M" tapes being paper - their
> website says they are METAL! (??) I don't know if I'd really believe
> that (they tear like paper), but it did react very strangely in the oven
> - it actually swells and puffs up! - and no, I'm not going to try it in
> the microwave!!)
>
>
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >
> >At 01:02 AM 6/10/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Rourke
> >><jrourke@allied-computer.com>
> >>
> >>I think you have to use the laminated labels, not the paper ones, for
> >>fairly good immunity to heat.. I tested the paper ones in my oven, they
> >>totally blacked out... I haven't tried the laminated ones yet though.
> >>
> >>-John R.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Not sure what is being referred to by "laminated" and "paper"
> > labels here. I have a label maker that puts out adhesive backed
> > tape which uses a thermal process to print the text . . . totally
> > unsuited to this task. Whole label goes black under the heat shrink.
> > Further, I've not seen any label maker that puts out a label small
> > enough to use on 22AWG wire.
> >
> > See picture at http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/s817c.jpg
> > The wire at the top is 22AWG . . . the type is a single row of
> > 6pt.
> >
> > Labels printed on ordinary paper (or Avery label material) in a
> > laser or inkjet printer are fine (caution on using colored lettering
> > from inkjet . . . some inks are not fade resistant . . . your numbers
> > may disappear with time).
> >
> > The Avery label material is not suggested for its ability to hold
> > the label on the wire . . . you will find that when you put a
> > label on a 22AWG wire, the label will consist of a single line
> > of 6pt type. This skinny piece of paper is easier to work with
> > if it sorta sticks to the wire while you pull the heat shrink over
> > it. Once the heat shrink is centered over the label, it doesn't
> > matter if the label has adhesive on it or not.
> >
> > On FAT wires, a column of numbers can be wrapped around the wire
> > and again, an adhesive backing can hold the label in place while
> > the heat shrink slides over it.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Randy Pflanzer <F1Rocket@comcast.net>
I suspect that if you place the antenna on the dash of your airplane, and
that dash is painted black like most of them, then you subject the antenna
to temperatures in excess of 230 degrees on a routine basis. I don't know
if the heat effects the antenna's ability to receive the signal (I doubt
it), but I'm not a radio antenna expert. It is purely a matter of personal
choice. You can mount it outside, your can mount it on your dash, and you
can mount it in your engine compartment. As long as it has a clear view of
as much of the sky as possible, you'll be just fine.
Randy
F1 Rocket
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson"
<alexpeterson@usjet.net>
>
>
> > Won't engine compartment heat affect the GPS antenna over time?
> >
>
> It most definitely affect the antenna, the only question is how much. I
> would defy anyone to find a method of measuring the lost airspeed caused
> by a tear drop shaped GPS antenna when it is mounted on the turtledeck.
> My GPS antenna cost a lot of money, and I would not really want to
> subject it to 200 degree temps on a regular basis. Probably won't hurt
> it, but for what gain?
>
> Another consideration is that most paint colors contain metal oxides,
> which will attenuate the signal some non-zero amount. Again, might not
> be much, but for what gain?
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 308 hours
> www.rvforum.org
> www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
> Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do you think
of
> the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
> Pros :
> - No additional drag
> - Short coax run
The GPS antenna on my 4 is under the canopy on the fuselage top behind the
rear seat.....works fine.
Dick Sipp
RV4 250DS
Message 36
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| Subject: | Oil Level Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>
> Last time I took on a similar project, it turned out to be
> more practical to just put a timer on the pump. Run it for
> so many minutes out of every hour. No switches to procure,
> calibrate, maintain or fail to work. Figure out what the
> max oil flow rate is to be expected. Triple or quadruple that
> number. I suspect you can pump that amount of liquid in
> a minute or so with even a small pump. I designed the timer
> so that it ran the prescribed period of time at first power-up
> and then once per hour after that at long as power stayed on.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>Thanks for the excellent suggestion! Using a timer should work, since the
>flow of oil out of the turbo is pretty constant (especially at cruise power
>settings). I found a timer that looks like it would be suitable from
>Artisan http://www.artisancontrols.com/pdf/4615.pdf Model # 4615A-2-3-A
>and the scavenge pump is from Westech.
>http://westech.home.mindspring.com/home.htm
>
>I have two additional questions. The timer requires external potentiometers
>to set the duty cycles. Do you have any suggestions as to the best or
>proper type of potentiometer to use?
I'd go fully digital. One of the PIC micro-controllers can be
programmed to put out a "1" on a pin for so many seconds out of
every other so many seconds. In fact, one of the cheap chips
I use has quite a number of output pins that could be programmed
for say 1%, 2%, 4%, 7%, 10% etc duty cycles. This way the user
could choose which pin most closely meets the needs for transferring
oil without running the pump any more than necessary.
>Secondly, I want to know when the pump is running by having a small light on
>the panel come on. I know that if I hook a light bulb in parallel with the
>pump, I will know when the timer switch is on, but not necessarily if the
>pump is actually running. How do I hook up a small light bulb in a circuit
>that detects when electricity is actually passing through the scavenge pump
>motor?
You can wind a coil of wire around a reed relay capsule to make
a current relay . . . contact close if the motor IS powered and
IS drawing current. You could fold this back to the uController
to light a warning light if the motor doesn't respond by drawing
current when a RUN command is issued.
There are some other schemes for current detection that would
work nicely for a uContoller interface as well.
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | cable tie mounts |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BAKEROCB@aol.com
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Steve Richard"
<steve@oasissolutions.com>
<<I'm building a fiberglass airplane. I'd like to use cable ties to hold most
of the wire. What is everyone using for cable tie mounts? Lanciar uses
click-bond at $1.65 each. Panduit has some for 90 cents each. Both appear
easy to install but expensive. Steve Richard.>>
6/10/2003
Hello Steve, One cannot trust the inexpensive sticky back self adhesive cable
tie mounts such as available from Radio Shack to hold long term.
Here is how I solved the cable mount problem. I bought a packet of 100 of the
inexpensive plain nylon four way cable tie mounts designed to be fastened on
with a # 6 screw and modified them. I modified them by roughing up the back of
the mounts with sand paper and gluing them in a row to a one inch wide strip
of cut off fiberglass scrap using laminating epoxy. This ensured that the
slots for the ties would not be fouled.##
When the epoxy cured I cut half way between each of the mounts so that I had
a whole bunch of nylon four way cable tie mounts glued to one inch squares of
fiberglass. When it came time to use them I applied a bit of fast curing
hardware store type gel epoxy that comes in push out tubes. The gel epoxy holds
them in place until cured.
This method is fast, easy, permanent enough, and pretty inexpensive. I am
very generous with applying these mounts wherever they might possibly be needed
because they are so ready to use once made up and inexpensive.
I bought my mounts from Newark for $18.34 for 100. They are Voltrex type
VRTH-05 with Newark stock number 81N2595. (My Newark catalog incorrectly describes
them as swivel head mount -- they are not. They are the non adhesive version
of the Voltrex type VRTH-05A).
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
##PS: If you don't have such scrap available you can lay out a 10 inch by 10
inch square of several layers of fiberglass. When that layup has cured you can
glue a mount in the middle of each one inch square.** When that has cured you
can cut the layup into one inch squares and you are ready to go for
installation as needed.
**PS: Or if you are really clever / eager you can put the cable tie mounts
right on the curing lay up and avoid the subsequent gluing on step.
Message 38
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| Subject: | cable tie mounts |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Richard" <steve@oasissolutions.com>
Thanks to all for the cable tie mount ideas. Just what I needed.
Steve Richard
steve@oasissolutions.com
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| Subject: | Oil Scavenge Pump Controller |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> >
> >Thanks for the excellent suggestion! Using a timer should work, since the
> >flow of oil out of the turbo is pretty constant (especially at cruise power
> >settings). I found a timer that looks like it would be suitable from
> >Artisan http://www.artisancontrols.com/pdf/4615.pdf Model # 4615A-2-3-A
> >and the scavenge pump is from Westech.
> >http://westech.home.mindspring.com/home.htm
> >
Here's a schematic . . . takes less than a dozen
parts and is infinitely "modifiable" through the
programming port.
http://216.55.140.222/temp/ScavengeController.gif
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | Re: cable tie mounts |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
Very interesting discussion, I'm just wondering, how do you mount the
cabling on a steel cage, conduits, cable ties only?
Many thanks for your ideas here
Werner
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