Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:34 AM - Wiring VM1000 for dual alternator installation (Treff, Arthur)
2. 02:45 AM - Re: recording intercom with a digital voice recorder (Ian Scott)
3. 06:06 AM - Electric Gyro Question (William Bernard)
4. 06:23 AM - Re: Electric Gyro Question (Benford2@aol.com)
5. 06:26 AM - Re: Electric Gyro Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:32 AM - Re: Wiring VM1000 for dual alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 06:36 AM - Re: Re: isolated ground wire for avionics (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 08:32 AM - Electric Gyro Corp turn co-ordinator (Neville Kilford)
9. 08:45 AM - Ring terminal sizes for contactors (Neville Kilford)
10. 09:58 AM - Re: Ring terminal sizes for contactors (Gilles.Thesee)
11. 10:48 AM - Re: Ring terminal sizes for contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 10:50 AM - Re: Is the E-Bus that Essential? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 10:57 AM - Re: Ring terminal sizes for contactors (Neville Kilford)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Wiring VM1000 for dual alternator installation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Treff, Arthur" <Arthur.Treff@Smartm.com>
Listers,
I'm wiring my RV-8 with Z-13. My ammeter will the embedded in the Vision MIcrosystems
VM-1000 display.
My questions are:
1) What would be the consequence if I connected the leads from both ammeter shunts
to the VM-1000? Since both alternators would be operating at different times
wouldn't the display just show the current from which ever alternator was
switched on? No doubt I'm missing something, please poke holes in my logic.
2) For those who have used a primary and an E bus and a display like the VM-1000,
where in the circuit did you wire the voltmeter? Any reason to have a voltmeter
on the main bus as well as the E-bus? OOps, that's a dumb question, I
think I just answered it myself. Current is very important to system health,
but knowing if the voltage falls below alternator output (#1 or #2) is all that
really matters, yes? Having said that, my logic is that putting a single voltmeter
accross the pnl ground plane to the started contactor would do the job.
Fire away, what am I missing?
Arthur Treff
Asheville, NC
Message 2
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| Subject: | recording intercom with a digital voice recorder |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ian Scott" <jabiru22@yahoo.com.au>
What about minidisk, cheap, robust, small light and they can record and
provide music when you need it.
Ian
(who will be installing a Minidisk player in the jabiru as soon as I
can).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
W
Subject: AeroElectric-List: recording intercom with a digital voice
recorder
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chris W <chrisw3@cox.net>
I would like to tie in a digital voice recorder to the intercom for 2
purposes. First to record everything while I am doing my flight
training. Second to be able to play back what ATC just said. I found
an adapter wire in the Aircraft Spruce catalog that you stick between
the intercom and your headset plug that has electronics that convert the
headphone signal down to a mic signal. That's great for recording.
Then they have a CD Player adapter where you also insert the plug in
between the intercom and your headset plug and then plug the little 1/8"
plug into the headphone jack of a CD player or in this case the voice
recorder. But then there are the cell phone adapters. Can those be
connected to a voice recorder some how and record all intercom traffic?
And then play it back through the intercom? Then there is the issue of
mixing stereo and mono plugs. I don't really care if I loose the option
to hear stereo music as long as the signal is still coming through both
ears. Can some one please clear this up and let me know what the best
solution is? I'm also looking for suggestions on MP3
players/voice recorders.
I have also seen some MP3 player/recorders that can record from a line
in signal, would that be a better solution? Has anyone seen or used
these? The only one I know of right now is called a Ripflash. They
have several different models. Their web site is here
http://www.pogoproducts.com/
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206
chrisw@programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Electric Gyro Question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard" <billbernard@worldnet.att.net>
I've installed my electric TC and in testing it, I noticed that it would turn into
a 'generator' when it was winding down after power off: LEDs on the panel
would light and then gradually fade as the gyro spun down.
I 'corrected' this by adding a diode to the '+' side of the connection. My question
is this: Is this sort of thing normal for all electric gyros? I haven't installed
the electric DG or AH yet. Would it be worth my time to install diodes
in the feed wires now or is this likely a wasted effort?
Thanks in advance
Bill
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Gyro Question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 6/25/2003 7:07:43 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
billbernard@worldnet.att.net writes:
>
> I've installed my electric TC and in testing it, I noticed that it would
> turn into a 'generator' when it was winding down after power off: LEDs on the
> panel would light and then gradually fade as the gyro spun down.
>
> I 'corrected' this by adding a diode to the '+' side of the connection. My
> question is this: Is this sort of thing normal for all electric gyros? I
> haven't installed the electric DG or AH yet. Would it be worth my time to install
> diodes in the feed wires now or is this likely a wasted effort?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
Wow,,, Now that is bizarre for sure. But it does sound plausible.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Gyro Question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:09 AM 6/25/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard"
><billbernard@worldnet.att.net>
>
>I've installed my electric TC and in testing it, I noticed that it would
>turn into a 'generator' when it was winding down after power off: LEDs on
>the panel would light and then gradually fade as the gyro spun down.
First, why is this a concern? Sounds like your
bus is VERY lightly loaded during power-down else
the tiny amount of energy stored in the gyro rotor
wouldn't provide so noticeable an effect. LEDs
will produce visible light at very low excitation
levels . . . you wouldn't see this effect at all
were your lamps of the incandescent type . . .
aside from the noticed effect while powering down,
why is it a bad thing and why increase parts count
and reduce performance on gyro by adding a diode?
>I 'corrected' this by adding a diode to the '+' side of the connection. My
>question is this: Is this sort of thing normal for all electric gyros? I
>haven't installed the electric DG or AH yet. Would it be worth my time to
>install diodes in the feed wires now or is this likely a wasted effort?
Depends on the instrument. If the motor is brush-type
dc motor (some turn coordinators are) then the motor
will "generate" too. If the motor is an ac induction
device, then the instrument includes an inverter to power
the ac motor from the dc bus. The best gyros are of this
design and will not "generate" . . .
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring VM1000 for dual alternator |
installation
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:32 AM 6/25/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Treff, Arthur"
><Arthur.Treff@Smartm.com>
>
>Listers,
>
>I'm wiring my RV-8 with Z-13. My ammeter will the embedded in the Vision
>MIcrosystems VM-1000 display.
>
>My questions are:
>1) What would be the consequence if I connected the leads from both
>ammeter shunts to the VM-1000? Since both alternators would be operating
>at different times wouldn't the display just show the current from which
>ever alternator was switched on? No doubt I'm missing something, please
>poke holes in my logic.
the VM1000 uses hall effect sensors, not shunts. You can
connect the three wires so that both sensors are powered up
all the time but you need a switch in the signal lead to
swap the instrument between sensors.
>2) For those who have used a primary and an E bus and a display like the
>VM-1000, where in the circuit did you wire the voltmeter? Any reason to
>have a voltmeter on the main bus as well as the E-bus? OOps, that's a
>dumb question, I think I just answered it myself. Current is very
>important to system health, but knowing if the voltage falls below
>alternator output (#1 or #2) is all that really matters, yes? Having said
>that, my logic is that putting a single voltmeter accross the pnl ground
>plane to the started contactor would do the job. Fire away, what am I missing?
since the VM-1000 doesn't help you get from
point A to point B, I'd put it on the main bus
and let it go dark during battery only ops.
One might argue that you need a voltmeter on the
endurance bus 'cause it's the battery's "gas gage"
but if you've done your load analysis versus battery
size -AND- you do reasonable periodic maintenance
on the battery, then there is zero concern for getting
airport in sight battery only, even if your alternator
crapped 5 minutes after departure.
Your engine isn't going to quit running because it
isn't being monitored. If there are things the VM-1000
can do for you en route, they are very short duration
activities that can be covered by momentarily turning
the master switch on.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: isolated ground wire for avionics |
in metal airplane
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:37 PM 6/24/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: CardinalNSB@aol.com
>
>Would I see any benefit or detriment to using a dedicated ground wire for my
>avionics in my metal airplane, isolated from the metal airframe? Thanks, Skip
Ground is ground is ground . . . at some point in time the
avionics gets connected to the airframe. Some installers
have an "avionics" ground on the stack at the panel and then
connect the remote ground bus to the firewall ground bus
with a suite of 2 to 4 wires (for redundancy) . . . Unless
you're building a LA4P with a bizillion electro-whizzies on
the panel, individual ground wires to the firewall ground
bus minimizes parts count and maximizes system reliability.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Electric Gyro Corp turn co-ordinator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
Hi guys,
Does anyone have any experience of the EGC turn co-ordinators? They look
pretty good, but anyone know how they are electrical noise-wise?
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Nev
--
Jodel D-150 in progress
UK
Message 9
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| Subject: | Ring terminal sizes for contactors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
Hi guys,
Does anyone know what size studs are required for the contactors? In metric
they're M5 & M8, but I only see imperial sizes on Bob's order form.
The M8 one converts to .31" or so, but what about the M5? It's smaller than
.25", so perhaps it's #10, #8, or #6, but I've no idea what those mean!
Any help would be appreciated.
Cheeers.
Nev
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Ring terminal sizes for contactors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
----- Message d'origine -----
De : "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
Envoy : mercredi 25 juin 2003 17:44
Objet : AeroElectric-List: Ring terminal sizes for contactors
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
<nkilford@etravel.org>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Does anyone know what size studs are required for the contactors? In
metric
> they're M5 & M8, but I only see imperial sizes on Bob's order form.
>
> The M8 one converts to .31" or so, but what about the M5? It's smaller
than
> .25", so perhaps it's #10, #8, or #6, but I've no idea what those mean!
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Cheeers.
> Nev
Neville,
M 8 studs perfectly fit 5/16 (or .31") terminals
M5 will be OK with # 10 terminals
Hope this helps,
Gilles Thesee
Metric since French revolution
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Ring terminal sizes for contactors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:44 PM 6/25/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
><nkilford@etravel.org>
>
>Hi guys,
>
>Does anyone know what size studs are required for the contactors? In metric
>they're M5 & M8, but I only see imperial sizes on Bob's order form.
>
>The M8 one converts to .31" or so, but what about the M5? It's smaller than
>.25", so perhaps it's #10, #8, or #6, but I've no idea what those mean!
An "M" size is in approx millimeters. A millimeter is about
0.040" An M8 would be therefore about 0.32", an M5 is about
0.20"
See
http://216.55.140.222/temp/Tap_and_Clearance_Drill.pdf
for a list of tap and clearance drill sizes for the vairious
screw sizes. Note that a free fit on a #6 screw is a #25
drill (0.145") if one were to convert this to millimeters,
it would be an M3.7
If you go to
http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/TE/bin/TE.Connect?S=13836&M=FEAT&LG=1&I=13
you'll find a listing of terminal sizes offered in the PIDG
series from AMP. Note the data fields labeled "Stud Diameter" and
"Stud Size" You can order a terminal sized in mm/in format
or by screw size (#4, #6, etc.)
Does this help?
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Is the E-Bus that Essential? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:52 PM 6/24/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Whitaker <rmwhitaker@lanl.gov>
>
>Gang,
>
>Up to this point, I have been planning to wire up my RV-9
>according to Fig. Z-11A. My understanding is the essential
>bus would be used to conserve power during an alternator out
>condition.
>
>However, almost all of the things that I plan to hang off of the
>main power distribution bus are switched. Therefore, I could
>turn off the "non-essential" equipment to conserve battery
>capacity. This being the case, do I need an E-bus?
>
>I'm probably missing another good reason for wiring up a
>separate E-bus as shown on Fig. Z-11A.
>
>Please shoot holes in my logic before I shoot a hole in
>my foot!
There has been a lot written about this . . . in fact,
the bus is more properly called the "endurance" bus.
Check out chapter 17 of the 'Connection which you can
download at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev9/ch17-9.pdf
By the way, Mr. Martin Gomez (who was so kind as to
share his experience with us) was told that I'd used
his story as but one of multitudinous illustrations
of how certified systems architecture and mind-set
boxes us into stupid and unnecessary situations.
I invited him to read the chapter cited above.
He contacted me again later and offer the following:
I just read the chapter. You were right on! I often thought
before and after my little fiasco that our electrical systems
were fine in the days when the Piper J-3 was a typical light
airplane. Now that we expect to fly in miserable weather,
relying on our avionics, it's nuts to still have the same
electrical system.
I, too, am an engineer (BS in aero, M.Eng. in EE, MS in
Applied Physics), with 20 years of experience. Of that, 9
was at a UAV company. We once lost a UAV because of an
alternator overvoltage...3 years after my emergency, and
after I had implored the avionics designers to split the bus
in two.
One of my hobbies is that I collect flight manuals for
airplanes that I'll never get to fly, including jet fighters,
airliners, etc. They do NOT put all their eggs in one
basket. It seems silly to have two radios (say) and put both
on the same bus so that one failure can zap them both.
I am indeed considering building an airplane. My current
choice is an RV-7. And you can bet that it will have a non-
standard electrical system! In fact, it was on the Van's
Airforce Yahoo group that I learned about you, and was told
that you used my AOPA article.
I would love a copy of your book, but if I'm going to benefit
from your experience, I ought to pay for it.
Regards,
Martin
Martin Gomezmlg28@cornell.edu
A day later his order came in for the book. The e-buss
is more than load reduction . . . it's a DUAL path distribution
structure to keep minimal en-route operational equipment going
until airport is in sight and do it battery-only for duration
of fuel aboard.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Ring terminal sizes for contactors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
Great!
Thanks, Gilles.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ring terminal sizes for contactors
> ----- Message d'origine -----
> De : "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
> : <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Envoy : mercredi 25 juin 2003 17:44
> Objet : AeroElectric-List: Ring terminal sizes for contactors
>
>
> > Does anyone know what size studs are required for the contactors? In
> metric
> > they're M5 & M8, but I only see imperial sizes on Bob's order form.
> >
> > The M8 one converts to .31" or so, but what about the M5? It's smaller
> than
> > .25", so perhaps it's #10, #8, or #6, but I've no idea what those mean!
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated.
> >
> M 8 studs perfectly fit 5/16 (or .31") terminals
> M5 will be OK with # 10 terminals
> Hope this helps,
>
>
> Gilles Thesee
> Metric since French revolution
>
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