---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/26/03: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:19 AM - Another Question, Different Subject (William Bernard) 2. 06:42 AM - Re: Wingtip VOR antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 07:13 AM - Re: Another Question, Different Subject (C. M. Shearer) 4. 07:55 AM - RingTerminalBoltSize (DAVID REEL) 5. 08:26 AM - Main Bus (Tinne maha) 6. 09:39 AM - Re: Main Bus (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 09:41 AM - Re: Ring terminal sizes for contactors (Neville Kilford) 8. 09:50 AM - Re: Another Question, Different Subject (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 10:45 AM - Re: Ring terminal sizes for contactors (Dan Checkoway) 10. 11:19 AM - Re: RingTerminalBoltSize (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 11:32 AM - Re: Ring terminal sizes for contactors (Neville Kilford) 12. 11:42 AM - Re: Ring terminal sizes for contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 11:45 AM - Re: Ring terminal sizes for contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 11:47 AM - Re: Another Question, Different Subject (Don Honabach) 15. 11:55 AM - Re: 10622 Capen (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 12:37 PM - Re: Another Question, Different Subject (Matt Prather) 17. 02:18 PM - Re: Terra 760 D/manual source (Paul Messinger) 18. 02:26 PM - Wiring VM1000 for dual alternator installation (BAKEROCB@aol.com) 19. 08:09 PM - Re: Mom-on toggle (Larry Bowen) 20. 08:27 PM - Re: Mom-on toggle (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 21. 08:32 PM - KX-125 pinout (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 22. 08:43 PM - Grouping wires for firewall penetration (Rick Fogerson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:50 AM PST US From: "William Bernard" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Another Question, Different Subject --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard" Thanks to Bob for the answer on the TC. The main reason I installed the diode was that the LEDs that were lit up were assosiated with the angle of attack computer. I doubted that this would cause a problem long term, but didn't want to take the chance. Also, it just didn't seem right the that they should light up when the power was turned off. I plan to not install any diodes in the power lines for the future DG and AH. My next question is about the VOR antenna shown on page 13-16 (Figuare 13-12) in the Aeroelectric Connection. It appears from the sketch that the central conductor for the antenna coax is electrically insualted from the antenna itself. Is this actually the case? Are there any revisions or updates to the sketch? Is the thing worth building, or should I just buy an antenna> Thanks again. Bill ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:57 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wingtip VOR antenna --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 06:22 AM 6/26/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard" > > >Thanks to Bob for the answer on the TC. The main reason I installed the >diode was that the LEDs that were lit up were assosiated with the angle of >attack computer. I doubted that this would cause a problem long term, but >didn't want to take the chance. Also, it just didn't seem right the that >they should light up when the power was turned off. > >I plan to not install any diodes in the power lines for the future DG and AH. > >My next question is about the VOR antenna shown on page 13-16 (Figuare >13-12) in the Aeroelectric Connection. It appears from the sketch that the >central conductor for the antenna coax is electrically insualted from the >antenna itself. Is this actually the case? Are there any revisions or >updates to the sketch? Is the thing worth building, or should I just buy >an antenna> If you study the assembly carefully, you'll find that the center conductor ties to one side of a CAPACITOR formed by two strips of aluminum sandwiched around a piece of phenolic. This design was purloined from an issue of RVAtor some years ago. I found out several years later that someone else had purloined it from one of Bob Archer's designs. I met Bob for the first time in California at a seminar I was doing for Aircraft Spruce. He told me that this was his original design. If you build this antenna as depicted it will probably perform as well as necessary . . . unless you plan to use VOR for long range, en route navigation where NO wingtip antenna is going to perform as well as a set of cat-whiskers on the tail. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:43 AM PST US From: "C. M. Shearer" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Another Question, Different Subject --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "C. M. Shearer" Bill, I am new to the forum, so I hope I am not breaking any protocol with my response. However, I have an answer for your VOR antenna question. The antenna listed as figure 13-11 is a half-wave dipole antenna. When connecting a coax to a dipole one should connect the inner wire to one rod (it doesn't matter which one) and the outer breaded shield to the other wire. A ground plane antenna has the inner wire connected to the vertical rod and the shield to the ground plane. BTW, if your are building your own VOR antenna, be aware that the length of the antenna is important. The closer your antenna is to 1/2 of a wave length of the VOR signal, the better your reception will be. The formula for finding the total length (both sides added together) is length = 491.8 divided by frequency in MHz Hope this helps. CMS C. M. Shearer Taylorcraft N43502 March 11, 1946 Serial No. 7161 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > William Bernard > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 7:22 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Another Question, Different Subject > > My next question is about the VOR antenna shown on page 13-16 > (Figuare 13-12) in the Aeroelectric Connection. It appears > from the sketch that the central conductor for the antenna > coax is electrically insualted from the antenna itself. Is > this actually the case? Are there any revisions or updates to > the sketch? Is the thing worth building, or should I just buy > an antenna> > > Thanks again. > > Bill ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:03 AM PST US From: "DAVID REEL" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RingTerminalBoltSize --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" A number 2 wire ring terminal with a hole to fit the .193" bolt that comes with Bob's favorite battery, a Panasonic LC-RD1217P , will not clear the case but must be ground down to bolt flush to the battery terminal. Is there any advantage to doing this versus just using a ring terminal for a larger bolt? Dave Reel - RV8A ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:26 AM PST US From: "Tinne maha" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Main Bus --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" List, I am building a kitfox with the battery in the tail. Recent posts have brought a question to mind: In my aircraft the wire running from the battery contactor to the bus will be about 15-20 feet. Figure Z-11 indicates the wire should be 8AWG but it is not protected. If that wire somehow shorted I think I would be in a world of hurt. Should I protect it with a fusible link ordoes the battery haveinsufficient capacity to burn that size wire (or am I completely missing something?) Grant ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:45 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Main Bus --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:09 AM 6/26/2003 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" > >List, > >I am building a kitfox with the battery in the tail. Recent posts have >brought a question to mind: In my aircraft the wire running from the >battery contactor to the bus will be about 15-20 feet. Figure Z-11 >indicates the wire should be 8AWG but it is not protected. If that wire >somehow shorted I think I would be in a world of hurt. Should I protect it >with a fusible link ordoes the battery haveinsufficient capacity to burn >that size wire (or am I completely missing something?) If your battery is located behind the seat, then you tie the main bus feeder onto the starter contactor on the firewall which will significantly shorten this wire. There is no compelling reason to "protect" heavy feeders other than to put them downstream of the battery contactor. It is sufficient to install these wires with due diligence for avoiding mechanical damage to the wire . . . same as one would do for a fuel line or a control cable. Likelihood of these feeders causing in-flight problems is extremely remote. This fact has be recognized by the FAA in certification of light aircraft. I'll quote Part 23 in part: Sec. 23.1357 Circuit protective devices. (a) Protective devices, such as fuses or circuit breakers, must be installed in all electrical circuits other than-- (1) Main circuits of starter motors used during starting only; and (2) Circuits in which no hazard is presented by their omission. . . . Bob. . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:07 AM PST US From: "Neville Kilford" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ring terminal sizes for contactors --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" Thanks Bob... > http://216.55.140.222/temp/Tap_and_Clearance_Drill.pdf That is the mother of all conversion tables. Made no sense whatsoever! I really wanted to know just what the size of #10, #8, and #6 would be (in inches or mm). Gilles has said that #10 is a 5mm, which should suit the contactors alright, and I have some M8 PIDG terminals. I just need to order the .31" uninsulated rings for the fat leads. So, I think I'm there or thereabouts. I'll shout if I need any more info. Cheers. Nev ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ring terminal sizes for contactors > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 04:44 PM 6/25/2003 +0100, you wrote: > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" > > > > > >Hi guys, > > > >Does anyone know what size studs are required for the contactors? In metric > >they're M5 & M8, but I only see imperial sizes on Bob's order form. > > > >The M8 one converts to .31" or so, but what about the M5? It's smaller than > >.25", so perhaps it's #10, #8, or #6, but I've no idea what those mean! > > > An "M" size is in approx millimeters. A millimeter is about > 0.040" An M8 would be therefore about 0.32", an M5 is about > 0.20" > > See > > http://216.55.140.222/temp/Tap_and_Clearance_Drill.pdf > > for a list of tap and clearance drill sizes for the vairious > screw sizes. Note that a free fit on a #6 screw is a #25 > drill (0.145") if one were to convert this to millimeters, > it would be an M3.7 > > If you go to > http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/TE/bin/TE.Connect?S=13836&M=FEAT&LG=1&I=13 > you'll find a listing of terminal sizes offered in the PIDG > series from AMP. Note the data fields labeled "Stud Diameter" and > "Stud Size" You can order a terminal sized in mm/in format > or by screw size (#4, #6, etc.) > > Does this help? > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:11 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Another Question, Different Subject --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:13 AM 6/26/2003 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "C. M. Shearer" > >Bill, > >I am new to the forum, so I hope I am not breaking any protocol with my >response. However, I have an answer for your VOR antenna question. The "protocols" for this list-server is to offer, analyze, and deduce practical application of simple ideas that support the physics and art of building airplanes. Your considered participation in this endeavor is always welcome . . . >The antenna listed as figure 13-11 is a half-wave dipole antenna. When >connecting a coax to a dipole one should connect the inner wire to one rod >(it doesn't matter which one) and the outer breaded shield to the other >wire. He was referring to the 1/4-wave, gamma-matched antenna in Figure 13-12. >A ground plane antenna has the inner wire connected to the vertical rod and >the shield to the ground plane. > >BTW, if your are building your own VOR antenna, be aware that the length of >the antenna is important. The closer your antenna is to 1/2 of a wave >length of the VOR signal, the better your reception will be. The formula >for finding the total length (both sides added together) is > > length = 491.8 divided by frequency in MHz This yields a length in FEET. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:45:18 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ring terminal sizes for contactors --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > I really wanted to know just what the size of #10, #8, and #6 would be (in > inches or mm). http://bobmay.astronomy.net/misc/drillchart.htm )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:41 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RingTerminalBoltSize --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:54 AM 6/26/2003 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" > >A number 2 wire ring terminal with a hole to fit the .193" bolt that comes >with Bob's favorite battery, a Panasonic LC-RD1217P , will not clear the >case but must be ground down to bolt flush to the battery terminal. Is >there any advantage to doing this versus just using a ring terminal for a >larger bolt? > >Dave Reel - RV8A Having trouble visualizing this . . . I presume that your talking about the edge margin around the bolt hole for terminal with a 0.193"+ hole is so large that the edge of the terminal hits the battery case and prevents alignment of the two holes for bolt insertion. I'm wondering how a terminal with a larger hole helps. Usually, as hole size goes up, overall diameter of the margin around the hole goes up too. The drawing I have for the Panasonic battery isn't very well dimensioned but it seems to suggest there is a 0.315 distance from hole center to top of battery case. This allows for a 0.600" diameter terminal with a 0.200" hole in it to still fit the battery terminal without modification. If the terminal you have is too large, it is best to trim the edge to gain needed clearance. The real meat of where a terminal does it's job is area under the nut and around the hole . . . the hole should fit the bolt as closely as practical. There are no "standards" for overall terminal diameter around the hole versus actual hole size. You can download a typical terminal catalog at http://www.hollingsworth.com/Misc/hollingsworth%20catalog.pdf check out page 46 for un-insulated terminals for 4AWG wire. Note that for each stud size there can be more than one diameter offered for overall size of the flag. If you have trouble finding a terminal with the right hole size and still small enough to fit the battery, you can sometimes use hole size down down for hole size and drill it out to fit . . . or trim a flat on the edge as you've suggested above. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:17 AM PST US From: "Neville Kilford" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ring terminal sizes for contactors --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" Brilliant, Thanks, Dan. Just the ticket. They're closer together than I thought they would be Cheers. Nev do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ring terminal sizes for contactors > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > > I really wanted to know just what the size of #10, #8, and #6 would be (in > > inches or mm). > > http://bobmay.astronomy.net/misc/drillchart.htm > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:10 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ring terminal sizes for contactors --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 05:38 PM 6/26/2003 +0100, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" > > >Thanks Bob... > > > http://216.55.140.222/temp/Tap_and_Clearance_Drill.pdf >That is the mother of all conversion tables. Made no sense whatsoever! ??? >I really wanted to know just what the size of #10, #8, and #6 would be (in >inches or mm). The chart says the range of sizes from close to loose fit on a 10-32 threaded stud is 0.196" to 0.201" diameter drill. Divide these by 0.039"/mm and you get 4.97 to 5.1 mm. I would assume a 5mm terminal is available. A #8 works over range of 0.169 to 0.177" for a mm range of 4.29 to 4.49 mm. Depending on who is supplying your terminals, a 4mm (tight) or 4.5mm terminal seems to be in order. A #6 stud needs 0.144" to 0.149" or 3.65 to 3.78 mm, I would guess a 4mm terminal would be best fit on the #6 stud. >Gilles has said that #10 is a 5mm, which should suit the contactors alright, >and I have some M8 PIDG terminals. I just need to order the .31" uninsulated >rings for the fat leads. So, I think I'm there or thereabouts. I'll shout >if I need any more info. A 8 mm terminal times .039"/mm yields 0.315" in diameter . . . just right for a 0.312" (5/16) treaded stud on the contactor. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:45:46 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ring terminal sizes for contactors --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:40 AM 6/26/2003 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > > I really wanted to know just what the size of #10, #8, and #6 would be (in > > inches or mm). > >http://bobmay.astronomy.net/misc/drillchart.htm pretty cool chart . . . but it gives TAP drill sizes, not clearance drill sizes. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:03 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Another Question, Different Subject From: "Don Honabach" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" Please excuse my lack of knowledge, but I'm confused on this diode issue with the TC. What is the difference between putting diode(s) on the contactors to prevent the energy wave back into the critical parts of the circuit and putting the diode on the TC to prevent it from doing the same or similiar? I'm sure I'm missing something, but on the surface it looks like the same type of problem/solution. Thanks! Don Honabach -----Original Message----- From: William Bernard [mailto:billbernard@worldnet.att.net] Subject: AeroElectric-List: Another Question, Different Subject --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Bernard" --> Thanks to Bob for the answer on the TC. The main reason I installed the diode was that the LEDs that were lit up were assosiated with the angle of attack computer. I doubted that this would cause a problem long term, but didn't want to take the chance. Also, it just didn't seem right the that they should light up when the power was turned off. I plan to not install any diodes in the power lines for the future DG and AH. My next question is about the VOR antenna shown on page 13-16 (Figuare 13-12) in the Aeroelectric Connection. It appears from the sketch that the central conductor for the antenna coax is electrically insualted from the antenna itself. Is this actually the case? Are there any revisions or updates to the sketch? Is the thing worth building, or should I just buy an antenna> Thanks again. Bill direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:13 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 10622 Capen --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >Bob, > >I am building an all-electric RV-6A and currently planning on a dual >alternator, single battery electrical system (a-la Z-12), with a D25 Diode >assy providing E-Buss primary feed...fuses - not breakers. > >For overvoltage protection, a crow-bar (OVM-14) driving a B-lead contactor >(S701-1)...or do I really need two sets - one for each alternator? I >don't really understand how it works - looks like it (OVM-14) would short >the circuit that normally provides power to the S-701 (easiest path) >causing the S-701 to open....yes/no? Although it looks like the LR-3/SB-1 >alternator controllers would be one-stop shopping providing OV protection >too?! First, not that Z-12 is shown set up with breakers. If you go the fuseblock route, you need to treat your alternator field supply circuit like that shown in Figure Z-11 where there is a fusible link coming off the bus to supply field power to the alternator control switch. This path continues on through a 5A breaker mandated for the crowbar ov protection . . . The second alternator would have its own fusible link and field supply circuit as the first alternator. OV protection is built into the regulators B&C makes. You would not need to add an OVM-14. >I would prefer the autoswitching as described on pg 17-12. Are these >mutually exclusive? OV protection is more critical to me than >autoswitching if I have to make a choice - I'm open to education though..... Autoswitching happens because the standby alternator is set to regulate at 0.5 to 1.0 volts BELOW normal bus voltage. Normal operation is for both alternator switches to be ON all the time. Should the main alternator fail, bus voltage sags and the #2 regulator brings the #2 alternator on line to support ship's loads. The Alternator Load/Overload light will flash until you reduce ship's load to or below 20A. >SB-1's and SD-20's are not listed anywhere on your website - are they >discontinued? I don't sell those, B&C does at http://www.bandc.biz >I hope that I've conveyed my intended direction...please validate or >provide education. I would like to make sure that the pathway is valid >given current availability of hardware. All the hardware you need is currently available. Figure Z-12 is most often applied to airplanes that already have breaker panels. You can certainly apply it to a new airplane with fuseblocks provided that you make the small changes described above to add fusible links and alternator field breakers. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( and still understand nothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:37:05 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Another Question, Different Subject From: "Matt Prather" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" Don, Diodes across relay coils allow for increased switch life by eliminating arcing across the contacts caused by the inductive load of the application. The illumination of LED's caused by the mechanical energy stored in the gyro doesn't pose a reliability/durability threat to any of the components in the circuit. I can't really see needing to turn off the bus that feeds the gyros while in flight, while in the dark - the condition which causes the LED's to light up. I'd guess that leaving any component on the bus turned on while the bus feed is off would probably extinguish the LED's. Regardless, it doesn't sound like the LED's can provide useful information while the bus is turned off, so they can be ignored for the minute or two that the gyros take to wind down, if the bus loads are that low. Regards, Matt Prather N34RD > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" > > > Please excuse my lack of knowledge, but I'm confused on this diode issue > with the TC. > > What is the difference between putting diode(s) on the contactors to > prevent the energy wave back into the critical parts of the circuit and > putting the diode on the TC to prevent it from doing the same or > similiar? I'm sure I'm missing something, but on the surface it looks > like the same type of problem/solution. > > Thanks! > Don Honabach > snip ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:56 PM PST US From: "Paul Messinger" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Terra 760 D/manual source --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" I have had good luck with the following for older manuals etc. http://www.esscoaircraft.com The quality was good last time I used them. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "David J. Spencer" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Terra 760 D > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David J. Spencer" > > Ed... > > Sorry, but I don't have any advice about the technical difficulties. > > However, I have dual TXN-960s and am wondering how you got a maintenance > manual? I'd love to have one for my 960s... have the install manual. > > David J. Spencer > Super3 > djs@54Transmission.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ed Anderson" > To: > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Terra 760 D > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" > > > > > Hi Bob, > > > > Don't know if you or anyone on the list may be able to help me with my > > problem or not. I have a Terra 760D transceiver. I have always had a > > problem with distortion when transmitting. Sometimes so bad folks > receiving > > can not understand me. At first, I though it might be the high noise > level > > in the cockpit, so got a better noise supression mic and also uphosteried > > the interior to reduce ambient noise. Nothing seemed to solve the > problem. > > There is no static/distortion when receiving and my side tone does not > have > > any distortion. I have had the transceiver in three times to have it > > checked, but you know how an intermittent problem is - never show up in > the > > repair shop. Antenna and Coax has been changed as well. > > > > I finally obtained a maintenance manual and noticed that the sidetone is > > generated one transistor before the modulation transistor. This leads me > to > > assume that the audio portion of the circuit is good (at least up to the > > side tone generator) and I wonder if an intermittent condition with the > > modulation transistor could cause distortion. It does seem worst during > hot > > weather. If anyone has had a similar problem and discovered the cause, > would > > appreciate hearing from them. > > > > Best Regards > > > > Ed Anderson > > RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > Matthews, NC > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:53 PM PST US From: BAKEROCB@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring VM1000 for dual alternator installation --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BAKEROCB@aol.com AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Treff, Arthur" <> 6/26/2003 Hello Arthur, I have installed a VM1000 system in my not yet flying airplane. I get the impression from your question that you don't have the hardware or VM manual in hand yet and are sort of feeling your way along. I would like to emphasize that I think the VM equipment is top quality gear (although perhaps no longer on the cutting edge of technology) and I have been absolutely pleased with the support that I have gotten from Lance Turk and his people, BUT there are some "gotchas". If you don't have the hardware and manual in hand and are very familiar with them you might be in for some surprises. Such as: 1) There is a cigar box sized DPU (Data Processing Unit) that you must mount somewhere with some subsequent access to. Many, many wires will run from your engine compartment to the DPU and connect through a D sub plug that you must wire. A flat ribbon cable will run from the DPU to the instruments in the instrument panel. 2) The wires going to the DPU D sub plug come from sensors either attached directly to the engine / magneto (CHT, EGT, OIL TEMPERATURE, RPM) or located in front of the firewall (OIL PRESSURE, FUEL PRESSURE, FUEL FLOW) or located optionally either in front of or behind the firewall (MANIFOLD PRESSURE, AMPERAGE). Voltage feeds directly to the D sub from the bus / source that you choose with no sensor. OAT and CAT connect directly to the DPU D sub if you are using those sensors. 3) As Bob Nuckolls said VM uses a Hall effect sensor for amperage input. The sensor provided by VM is a small printed circuit board with a hole in the middle and a coil around that hole. The hole is big enough for maybe one (fat) wire to go from the alternator to the positive side of the starter contactor (how I wired mine). VM would like you to put this sensor in a benign environment (aft of the firewall), but I did not want that "fat, noisy wire" in the cockpit. If you can't put the sensor in a benign environment then VM wants you to protect or encase the sensor in some fashion. I found that next to impossible to do because of its shape and size and the fat wire running perpendicularly through the board's middle, so mine is hanging exposed from a bracket fastened to the front of the firewall. 4) Coming from the amperage sensor are four wires within the shieldedcable provided by VM that lead to the D sub plug going into the DPU. It is difficult for me to envision how you would rig two different alternators to feed the DPU, but I'm sure that it could be done with some effort and extra hardware such as switches (12 contact rotary?) and maybe an extra Hall effect sensor. 5) VM provides you with high quality four wire shielded cable to go from the sensors to the DPU. But you don't need all four wires for all the sensors. You can reduce weight and bulkiness (big issue when wiring the D sub plug) by buying some two and three wire shielded cable and using that where appropriate rather than the four wire cable provided by VM. 6) If you go for the VM fuel quantity system you get another printed circuit board (naked, no enclosure) that VM calls the IO board. You must also mount that some place and protect it as desired / needed. The wires from the fuel sensor probes go to the IO board via another D sub connector and the flat wire from the DPU to the instruments on the panel goes through the IO board. Arthur, I know that this is very nutsy and boltsy and I'm sure that you know some of this already, but the above information would have been very helpful to me at one stage of my building. Please let me know if you have any questions (by direct email if appropriate) and I'll give it my best shot. 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/? ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:26 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Mom-on toggle --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" A follow-up on my quest for the guarded momentary-on toggle switch: I'm not having much luck so far. For use with the switchguard, they have to be mounted a certain way. Basically, the momentary-on needs to be opposite the groove in the neck that is used for the anti-rotation tab. The switch listed in the previous email below has the opposite action: (on)-on as mounted in the switchguard. So, I ordered CARLING 6FA5H73: ALLIED STOCK # 683-5119 which is listed as having a (on)-off action. But it's the same -- the momentary on is opposite the groove. So using either of the switched purchased so far, the starter will engage as soon as the switchguard is flipped open, and stay engaged until the guard is closed. That's not what I'm after. Is the only solution to file off the anti-rotation tab on the switchguard, or am I over looking something? Thanks, - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com 2003 - The year of flight! > -----Original Message----- > >I'm looking for a off-(on) toggle switch for use as a starter engage > >switch. Same functionality as the push button that Bob sells, but I > >want the form-factor of the toggle switches. This will be used with > >the red flip-guard. Anyone know a source? I guess one of the > >three-position switches would work [xx-xx-(on)], but ... > > CARLING 6FB5H73XA: ALLIED STOCK # 683-5121 > http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=896.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:23 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Mom-on toggle --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 11:05 PM 6/26/2003 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" > >A follow-up on my quest for the guarded momentary-on toggle switch: > > >I'm not having much luck so far. For use with the switchguard, they >have to be mounted a certain way. Basically, the momentary-on needs to >be opposite the groove in the neck that is used for the anti-rotation >tab. The switch listed in the previous email below has the opposite >action: (on)-on as mounted in the switchguard. So, I ordered > >CARLING 6FA5H73: ALLIED STOCK # 683-5119 > >which is listed as having a (on)-off action. But it's the same -- the >momentary on is opposite the groove. So using either of the switched >purchased so far, the starter will engage as soon as the switchguard is >flipped open, and stay engaged until the guard is closed. That's not >what I'm after. > >Is the only solution to file off the anti-rotation tab on the >switchguard, or am I over looking something? Nope, that's how we all do it. Most guards are not built to any standard . . . only those done to a Mil-Spec are going to be consistent. I've purchased guards that had anti-rotation tabs both ways. Use anti-rotation tab washers on the BACK of the panel for the switches and file off the tab on the guard. They'll probably work just fine. If push comes to shove, put two tiny dots of adhesive on the back of the guard's mounting plate. Sho-Goo or one of its cousins works well. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:04 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: KX-125 pinout --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > Bob >I'm looking for pin-out info for a KX125. Have any idea where I can >borrow or download a copy. >Thanks Try http://216.55.140.222/Installation_Data/KX125.pdf I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to share the information with as many folks as possible. A further benefit can be realized with membership on the list. There are lots of technically capable folks on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can join at . . . http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/ Thanks! Bob . . . |---------------------------------------------------| | A lie can travel half way around the world while | | the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . | | -Mark Twain- | |---------------------------------------------------| ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:58 PM PST US From: "Rick Fogerson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grouping wires for firewall penetration --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" Hi Bob, I plan on grouping wires in the following two groups for firewall penetration: 1) CHT, EGT, and tach, oil T&P, MAP, and fuel pressure transducer wires 2) E.I. controllers (2), Alternator field and B output, and starter contactor Is this okay? thanks, Rick Fogerson RV3, finish Boise, ID