Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:48 AM - Problem with web page? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 07:45 AM - Re: Problem with web page? (Freddie Freeloader)
3. 08:08 AM - Re: Problem with web page? (Bruce Gray)
4. 08:12 AM - Re: Problem with web page? (Bruce Gray)
5. 08:19 AM - KX-125 problem (Bruce Green)
6. 09:23 AM - Grounding questions (Bob Lee)
7. 12:22 PM - Re: KX-125 problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 02:27 PM - Re: KX-125 problem (Bruce Green)
9. 04:00 PM - Re: KX-125 problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 04:08 PM - Re: KX-125 problem (Matt Prather)
11. 05:01 PM - Re: Grouping wires for firewall penetration (Rick Fogerson)
12. 06:18 PM - Re: Grouping wires for firewall penetration (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 11:51 PM - Team Grumman (Aucountry@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Problem with web page? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
I had a note from a lister citing problems with reading our
web page at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/tools.html
Seems that some of the pictures at the top of the page don't
display. He sent me a capture of the HTML code his browser
sees and indeed, some quotation marks are missing from two
of the HTML tags that call the images in question.
It would be helpful if folks would check this page and
see if any image boxes come up empty. No need to respond
to this message if the page displays okay.
I would like to receive a DIRECT e-mail if anyone
can duplicate our friend's observation.
Thanks!
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Problem with web page? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Freddie Freeloader <lists@stevet.net>
Hello Robert,
Tuesday, July 1, 2003, 6:47:17 AM, you wrote:
RLNI> I had a note from a lister citing problems with reading our
RLNI> web page at:
RLNI> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/tools.html
Yes, the 2 images under the heading "25 Watt, 115 VAC Soldering Iron"
appear as broken links. I'm using Win2K and Mozilla 3.1 browser.
--
Best regards,
Freddie mailto:lists@stevet.net
Message 3
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| Subject: | Problem with web page? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
All images work for me. (Win2kPro and IE6.0)
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Freddie Freeloader
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Problem with web page?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Freddie Freeloader
<lists@stevet.net>
Hello Robert,
Tuesday, July 1, 2003, 6:47:17 AM, you wrote:
RLNI> I had a note from a lister citing problems with reading our
RLNI> web page at:
RLNI> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/tools.html
Yes, the 2 images under the heading "25 Watt, 115 VAC Soldering Iron"
appear as broken links. I'm using Win2K and Mozilla 3.1 browser.
--
Best regards,
Freddie mailto:lists@stevet.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Problem with web page? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
Additional information. All was fine with my copy of Mozilla 1.4
browser.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Freddie Freeloader
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Problem with web page?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Freddie Freeloader
<lists@stevet.net>
Hello Robert,
Tuesday, July 1, 2003, 6:47:17 AM, you wrote:
RLNI> I had a note from a lister citing problems with reading our
RLNI> web page at:
RLNI> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/tools.html
Yes, the 2 images under the heading "25 Watt, 115 VAC Soldering Iron"
appear as broken links. I'm using Win2K and Mozilla 3.1 browser.
--
Best regards,
Freddie mailto:lists@stevet.net
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green <mailindex@juno.com>
I have a KX-125 and it had worked fine and then suddenly, it was
inoperative. Sent it out for repairs and they replaced a diode in the
power supply and two transistors in the transmitter for $350. Put it
back in and all was well for about an hour but now it seems to have
suffered the same fate again. I sent it back to the avionics shop and
have not heard what they think yet. Of course I am wondering if there
is something about the plane that created this problem with the radio,
such as a voltage spike. The transponder and intercom run off of the
same circuit and have not failed. I was going to connect a voltmeter and
fly around for a while and see what it does.
Could a bad regulator cause this problem??
Bruce Green
Eagle N110GM
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 6
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| Subject: | Grounding questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Lee" <bob@flyboybob.com>
Bob K,
Unfortunately, I already completed wiring my instrument panel before I found
your wonderful book "The AeroElectric Connection". I just read the chapter
on grounding and am concerned that I might have a problem with ground loops.
I've got a couple of questions that require some background to make sense.
I used a sheet of .060" 7075 aluminum to build the instrument panel. I have
full IFR instruments on the left, radio stack in the center, and engine
instruments on the right in the standard locations. I used the panel as a
ground for everything mounted there (G3) and then ran a number 2 wire to the
battery minus terminal. The firewall is .015 stainless (G2) that is
connected to the battery minus terminal with a number 2 wire. Number 2 was
selected for these two grounds because the two battery bus connections to
the main bus are through 35 amp breakers each. Number 2 will flow 100 amps
so it gives me a margin over the 70 amps maximum available
The crankcase has a 1 foot long 00 wire run to the battery minus terminal.
The two batteries are in a common battery box and their negative terminals
are bolted together with a 1/4" bolt. The alternators are PM units with the
regulators mounted on the firewall. The firewall and instrument panel are
electrically isolated structurally due to composite airframe.
From reading The AeroElectric Connection, it's obvious that I need to update
my wiring diagram with appropriate ground locations for each component.
Before I make the changes I want to make sure I have a good understanding of
the grounding requirements.
With that said, here are my 3 questions:
1. Will the firewall and instrument panel serve as acceptable G2 and G3
ground busses? (I don't want to rewire all the grounds if it is not
necessary)
2. To prevent ground loops should the number 2 wire connections to the
battery minus terminal from the instrument panel and firewall be replaced
with larger wire (if yes what size do you recommend)?
3. I have fuel transfer pumps nav lights and strobes in the wings, should
they be grounded to the firewall to provide the return path to the voltage
regulators?
If you're a visual type, you can see my wiring diagram at:
http://flyboybob.com/kr2/wd0001.htm. It's a seven sheet drawing that comes
up on sheet 1 power distribution. Use the pull down at the bottom of the
page to select sheet 7, Grounding.
Regards,
Bob Lee
______________________________
N52BL KR2 Suwanee, GA 30024
91% done only 51% to go!
Phone/Fax: 770/844-7501
mailto:bob@flyboybob.com
http://flyboybob.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: KX-125 problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:33 AM 7/1/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green <mailindex@juno.com>
>
>I have a KX-125 and it had worked fine and then suddenly, it was
>inoperative. Sent it out for repairs and they replaced a diode in the
>power supply and two transistors in the transmitter for $350. Put it
>back in and all was well for about an hour but now it seems to have
>suffered the same fate again. I sent it back to the avionics shop and
>have not heard what they think yet. Of course I am wondering if there
>is something about the plane that created this problem with the radio,
>such as a voltage spike. The transponder and intercom run off of the
>same circuit and have not failed. I was going to connect a voltmeter and
>fly around for a while and see what it does.
>
>Could a bad regulator cause this problem??
Sure. Do you have ov protection? Do you have a voltmeter in the
airplane?
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: KX-125 problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green <mailindex@juno.com>
On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 14:21:12 -0500 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net> writes:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 10:33 AM 7/1/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green
> <mailindex@juno.com>
> >
> >I have a KX-125 and it had worked fine and then suddenly, it was
> >inoperative. Sent it out for repairs and they replaced a diode in
> the
> >power supply and two transistors in the transmitter for $350. Put
> it
> >back in and all was well for about an hour but now it seems to have
> >suffered the same fate again. I sent it back to the avionics shop
> and
> >have not heard what they think yet. Of course I am wondering if
> there
> >is something about the plane that created this problem with the
> radio,
> >such as a voltage spike. The transponder and intercom run off of
> the
> >same circuit and have not failed. I was going to connect a
> voltmeter and
> >fly around for a while and see what it does.
> >
> >Could a bad regulator cause this problem??
>
> Sure. Do you have ov protection? Do you have a voltmeter in the
> airplane?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Bob, I do have over voltage protection, but I have never verified that it
is working properly. I do not have a voltmeter, all that I have is an
ammeter like in a car, with a 60-0-60 scale. It is what came with the
plane and at some point, I plan to replace it with a voltmeter. In my
last plane, I bought a davtron unit from B&C that mounted right at the
end of the buss bar and I was very happy with that. The only electric
devices in the airplane are the KX-125, a KT-76 transponder and a PS
Engineering intercom and so far the transponder and intercom have not
been affected. I plan to go flying with my handheld and connect my
multimeter to the bussbar and see what the output is and if there are any
aberations. When I put the battery in, I adjusted the voltmeter to I
believe, 13.8 as the battery manufacture recomended. Should I be looking
for high voltage excursions or just a generally high voltage??
Thanks for your help,
Bruce Green
Eagle N110GM
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: KX-125 problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>
>Bob, I do have over voltage protection, but I have never verified that it
>is working properly.
It's a good thing to do. I describe both bench and in-place
test procedures in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/crowbar.pdf
> I do not have a voltmeter, all that I have is an
>ammeter like in a car, with a 60-0-60 scale. It is what came with the
>plane and at some point, I plan to replace it with a voltmeter. In my
>last plane, I bought a davtron unit from B&C that mounted right at the
>end of the buss bar and I was very happy with that.
The voltmeter is a good thing to have . . . better I think
than the battery ammeter . . . but either instrument is just
a troubleshooting assist.
> The only electric
>devices in the airplane are the KX-125, a KT-76 transponder and a PS
>Engineering intercom and so far the transponder and intercom have not
>been affected. I plan to go flying with my handheld and connect my
>multimeter to the bussbar and see what the output is and if there are any
>aberations. When I put the battery in, I adjusted the voltmeter to I
>believe, 13.8 as the battery manufacture recomended. Should I be looking
>for high voltage excursions or just a generally high voltage??
Most automotive and aircraft regulators are set at 14.2 volts
for better recharge rates . . and while slightly elevated
with respect to optimum room temperature floating recharge, it's
not particularly injurious to the battery.
>Thanks for your help,
Put your voltmeter on the bus and fire up the airplane leaving
the radios off. See how stable the voltage is with
variable loading. Run up to 1800+ rpm and switch everything
but radios on. Bus voltage shouldn't wiggle by more than
0.5 volt or so.
Your story seems to favor an ov event. I'd sure check out
the ov protection to be sure.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: KX-125 problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Probably a long shot, but I wonder whether the KX-125 is susceptible
to damage from a shorted antenna. King seems like a good brand, and
so probably wouldn't sell a radio with this kind of problem, but its
something else to check.
Another point is that some devices may be more likely to be damaged
by a bus voltage problem. The KX-125 may have the least overvoltage
protect/robust design.
When you say that you adjusted the voltmeter to read 13.8, I assume
you mean that you were adjusting the voltage regulator so that the
voltmeter read 13.8?
Good luck, and let everyone know what you find.
Regards,
Matt-
N34RD
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green
> <mailindex@juno.com>
>
>
> On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 14:21:12 -0500 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net> writes:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>>
>> At 10:33 AM 7/1/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green
>> <mailindex@juno.com>
>> >
>> >I have a KX-125 and it had worked fine and then suddenly, it was
>> inoperative. Sent it out for repairs and they replaced a diode in
>> the
>> >power supply and two transistors in the transmitter for $350. Put
>> it
>> >back in and all was well for about an hour but now it seems to have
>> suffered the same fate again. I sent it back to the avionics shop
>> and
>> >have not heard what they think yet. Of course I am wondering if
>> there
>> >is something about the plane that created this problem with the
>> radio,
>> >such as a voltage spike. The transponder and intercom run off of
>> the
>> >same circuit and have not failed. I was going to connect a
>> voltmeter and
>> >fly around for a while and see what it does.
>> >
>> >Could a bad regulator cause this problem??
>>
>> Sure. Do you have ov protection? Do you have a voltmeter in the
>> airplane?
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>
> Bob, I do have over voltage protection, but I have never verified that
> it is working properly. I do not have a voltmeter, all that I have is
> an ammeter like in a car, with a 60-0-60 scale. It is what came with
> the plane and at some point, I plan to replace it with a voltmeter. In
> my last plane, I bought a davtron unit from B&C that mounted right at
> the end of the buss bar and I was very happy with that. The only
> electric devices in the airplane are the KX-125, a KT-76 transponder and
> a PS Engineering intercom and so far the transponder and intercom have
> not been affected. I plan to go flying with my handheld and connect my
> multimeter to the bussbar and see what the output is and if there are
> any aberations. When I put the battery in, I adjusted the voltmeter to
> I believe, 13.8 as the battery manufacture recomended. Should I be
> looking for high voltage excursions or just a generally high voltage??
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Bruce Green
> Eagle N110GM
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Grouping wires for firewall penetration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
Hi Bob,
1) Dual batteries, buses, and contactors in the rear.
2) A 2AWG wire connects the two bat cons to the starter con.
3) A 2AWG wire connects the two battery negative terminals to the inst.
panel ground bus.
4) An 8AWG wire connects 40amp alternator B lead to 40amp ANL and then to
starter con.
Rick Fogerson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grouping wires for firewall penetration
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 03:27 PM 6/30/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson"
<rickf@cableone.net>
> >
> >Do not archive
> >Hi Bob,
> >I was thinking the starter contactor normally went on the cockpit side of
> >the firewall. I'm getting the idea that maybe it should go on the engine
> >side. If this is correct or does it matter?
>
> People have stuck them everywhere. I prefer to use the starter
> contactor as a junction point for attaching the alternator b-lead
> to the system via ANL current limiter setting right next to the
> starter contactor on the engine side of the firewall. Where
> is your battery mounted?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Grouping wires for firewall penetration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:02 PM 7/1/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
>
>Hi Bob,
>1) Dual batteries, buses, and contactors in the rear.
>2) A 2AWG wire connects the two bat cons to the starter con.
>3) A 2AWG wire connects the two battery negative terminals to the inst.
>panel ground bus.
>4) An 8AWG wire connects 40amp alternator B lead to 40amp ANL and then to
>starter con.
>Rick Fogerson
Okay. So it's about a wash as to where you put the starter
contactor. If inside, then you have starter and b-leads
coming through the firewall. If outside on firewall, you have
battery feeder to the starter contactor and main-bus feeds
coming through the firewall. Either way it's two fat wires.
So if you have it mounted inside already, I wouldn't move it.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
Matt, how and when can I start enlisting members into TeamGrumman? The
rules you post make a lot more sense than the GG rules.
Gary
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