Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:31 AM - Recent order (Neville Kilford)
2. 06:09 AM - Re: Grounding questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:16 AM - Re: Recent order (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:54 AM - Re: Grounding questions (DHPHKH@aol.com)
5. 08:56 AM - Re: Wiring VM1000 for dual alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 10:35 AM - Thanks - PIDG Article... (Don Honabach)
7. 03:25 PM - Re: Thanks - PIDG Article... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 04:55 PM - Off list for a while... (Ralph E. Capen)
9. 11:32 PM - Fluctuating Ammeter (Richard V. Reynolds)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
Bob and B&C,
The fulfilment of my recent order is the singularly most impressive piece of
customer service I've ever experienced. I ordered on Saturday evening, and
the package arrvied (in good order and with nothing missing) this morning
(Wednesday) at 9.00. Elapsed time: two working days.
This is especially impressive considering I'm in the UK. Great fun, opening
a complete "electrical system in a box".
Thanks for the great service.
Kind regards.
Neville Kilford
--
Jodel D-150 in progress
UK
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:22 PM 7/1/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Lee" <bob@flyboybob.com>
>
>Bob K,
>
>Unfortunately, I already completed wiring my instrument panel before I found
>your wonderful book "The AeroElectric Connection". I just read the chapter
>on grounding and am concerned that I might have a problem with ground loops.
>I've got a couple of questions that require some background to make sense.
>
>I used a sheet of .060" 7075 aluminum to build the instrument panel. I have
>full IFR instruments on the left, radio stack in the center, and engine
>instruments on the right in the standard locations. I used the panel as a
>ground for everything mounted there (G3) and then ran a number 2 wire to the
>battery minus terminal.
Geesh! That's a hawg. All this wire carries is ground flow for
the panel mounted stuff. You can get by with much smaller, perhaps
a 10AWG.
> The firewall is .015 stainless (G2) that is
>connected to the battery minus terminal with a number 2 wire. Number 2 was
>selected for these two grounds because the two battery bus connections to
>the main bus are through 35 amp breakers each. Number 2 will flow 100 amps
>so it gives me a margin over the 70 amps maximum available
>
>The crankcase has a 1 foot long 00 wire run to the battery minus terminal.
>The two batteries are in a common battery box and their negative terminals
>are bolted together with a 1/4" bolt. The alternators are PM units with the
>regulators mounted on the firewall. The firewall and instrument panel are
>electrically isolated structurally due to composite airframe.
>
> From reading The AeroElectric Connection, it's obvious that I need to update
>my wiring diagram with appropriate ground locations for each component.
>Before I make the changes I want to make sure I have a good understanding of
>the grounding requirements.
>
>With that said, here are my 3 questions:
>
>1. Will the firewall and instrument panel serve as acceptable G2 and G3
>ground busses? (I don't want to rewire all the grounds if it is not
>necessary)
G2 should be a single bolt on the firewall. Avoid running
cranking current TROUGH the firewall sheet. Your locally
grounded equipment items (see below) will flow current in the
firewall sheet but this is relatively small and does not share
a path with any potential victims.
>2. To prevent ground loops should the number 2 wire connections to the
>battery minus terminal from the instrument panel and firewall be replaced
>with larger wire (if yes what size do you recommend)?
"Loop" refers only to architecture and has nothing to do with
wire size. The goal is to have potential victims (usually panel
mounted stuff) have a common ground point at G2 . . . your
intermediate bus (panel sheet) tied to G2 satisfies this
requirement. Your ground wires are certainly robust. The 00AWG
jumper might be better located at the single bolt at G2.
>3. I have fuel transfer pumps nav lights and strobes in the wings, should
>they be grounded to the firewall to provide the return path to the voltage
>regulators?
These items are neither potential victims nor potential
antagonists and can be grounded locally.
>If you're a visual type, you can see my wiring diagram at:
>http://flyboybob.com/kr2/wd0001.htm. It's a seven sheet drawing that comes
>up on sheet 1 power distribution. Use the pull down at the bottom of the
>page to select sheet 7, Grounding.
Tried to look at it but it seems your present site provider
is involved in a turf war and we can't access your uploaded
pages. Will try later. Looks like your e-mail return address
is to the same server . . . you probably won't get this
AeroElectric-List item until the battle is won or a truce
is signed. Good luck!
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Recent order |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:30 PM 7/2/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
><nkilford@etravel.org>
>
>Bob and B&C,
>
>The fulfilment of my recent order is the singularly most impressive piece of
>customer service I've ever experienced. I ordered on Saturday evening, and
>the package arrvied (in good order and with nothing missing) this morning
>(Wednesday) at 9.00. Elapsed time: two working days.
>
>This is especially impressive considering I'm in the UK. Great fun, opening
>a complete "electrical system in a box".
>
>Thanks for the great service.
>
>Kind regards.
>Neville Kilford
>
>--
>Jodel D-150 in progress
>UK
I'll forward a copy of this to the folks at B&C. I'm pleased
that they were able to provide timely response to your
needs.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DHPHKH@aol.com
<<The two batteries are in a common battery box and their negative terminals
>are bolted together with a 1/4" bolt.>>
Just a thought: May not be wise to bolt two heavy batteries together at
the terminals. A flexible connection seems more appropriate.
Dan
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring VM1000 for dual alternator |
installation
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:32 AM 6/25/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Treff, Arthur"
><Arthur.Treff@Smartm.com>
>
>Listers,
>
>I'm wiring my RV-8 with Z-13. My ammeter will the embedded in the Vision
>MIcrosystems VM-1000 display.
>
>My questions are:
>1) What would be the consequence if I connected the leads from both
>ammeter shunts to the VM-1000? Since both alternators would be operating
>at different times wouldn't the display just show the current from which
>ever alternator was switched on? No doubt I'm missing something, please
>poke holes in my logic.
I got a note from Vision Microsystems that answered questions
I had on how their transducers were wired. I've published a suggested
wiring diagram for dual ammeter transducers on the VM1000 at
http://216.55.140.222/temp/VM1000_Dual_Bus.pdf
Consider that you might do quite nicely without putting
an ammeter sensor on the aux alternator. If the bus voltage
is staying above 13.0 volts then you're certainly not overloading
the aux alternator. Besides, your en-route load analysis
needs to be accomplished before first flight. You KNOW
what the maximum auxiliary alternator loads are going to
be long before you ever need to load that alternator.
>2) For those who have used a primary and an E bus and a display like the
>VM-1000, where in the circuit did you wire the voltmeter? Any reason to
>have a voltmeter on the main bus as well as the E-bus? OOps, that's a
>dumb question, I think I just answered it myself. Current is very
>important to system health, but knowing if the voltage falls below
>alternator output (#1 or #2) is all that really matters, yes? Having said
>that, my logic is that putting a single voltmeter accross the pnl ground
>plane to the started contactor would do the job. Fire away, what am I missing?
If power to operate the VM1000 fits into your power
budget for sustained en route operations with the aux alternator
(and I would think 8+ amps is plenty) then run the
VM1000 from the e-bus and be aware that voltage readings
for normal operations are 0.7 volts lower than actual.
Momentary closure of the alternate feed switch will give
you the real bus voltage and show that the alternate feed
path is intact.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Thanks - PIDG Article... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
Bob,
I wanted to thank you for doing the new crimping article. It was very
educational and helped me better understand crimping, etc.
In the article I noticed you cut the connectors apart. I'm getting my
new AMP crimper this week and will cut open the crimps and compare.
Should be interesting if nothing else from a techie prespective.
Thanks again for all your help.
Regards,
Don Honabach
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Thanks - PIDG Article... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:34 AM 7/2/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>
>Bob,
>
>I wanted to thank you for doing the new crimping article. It was very
>educational and helped me better understand crimping, etc.
>
>In the article I noticed you cut the connectors apart. I'm getting my
>new AMP crimper this week and will cut open the crimps and compare.
>Should be interesting if nothing else from a techie prespective.
A cornerstone of good science is the repeatable experiment.
There's no better activity than a DIY confirmation of results
to validate an idea and commit it solidly in memory. Now
YOU will be armed with another simple-idea that can be shared
with others as the occasions arise.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 8
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"Avionics-list" <avionics-list@matronics.com>,
<aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Off list for a while... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
I'll be off list until the 14th
Message 9
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| Subject: | Fluctuating Ammeter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds@macs.net>
With the engine running and the alternator on, the ammeter fluctuates between +60/-60
amps
with all loads on. As the loads are reduced, i.e. the landing lights, strobes,
and nav
lights are turned off, the fluctuations reduce to +5/-5 amps.
The battery voltage is 13.6 volts before start and 15.2 volts with the alternator
on as
measured with a digital voltmeter. The voltage does not appear to be fluctuating.
I presume the RV has the standard Vans regulator and alternator.
Any thoughts on the cause.
Richard Reynolds for a friend
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