---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/04/03: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:22 AM - Dual bus VM-1000 (Treff, Arthur) 2. 04:23 AM - Noise in the headset troubleshooting (long) (Treff, Arthur) 3. 08:30 AM - Re: Noise in the headset troubleshooting (long) (William Mills) 4. 12:13 PM - Re: Noise in the headset troubleshooting (long) (Doug Dodson) 5. 12:51 PM - music input jacks (Dan Checkoway) 6. 06:40 PM - Re: music input jacks (Charlie & Tupper England) 7. 08:14 PM - ACK ELT control wire? (BAKEROCB@aol.com) 8. 09:09 PM - alternator (Tom Reading) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:22:36 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dual bus VM-1000 From: "Treff, Arthur" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Treff, Arthur" Bob, Thanks for your research on my behalf. It was definately above and beyond the call of duty. You should be inducted into the EAA hall of fame. Not only did you go the extra mile and contact Vision Mirco, but you generated a schematic. None of the drawings for my plane look as good as yours. Anyway, thanks again for your tireless efforts. Art Treff RV-8 Fastback in progress ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:23:33 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Noise in the headset troubleshooting (long) From: "Treff, Arthur" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Treff, Arthur" Listers, I wanted to share with you some recent events surrounding troubleshooting 'noisy radio' problems in my 1966 Mooney, just in case this ever happens to you. The electrical system is standard "store bought" with battery on the firewall, 60A PMA'd alternator with external Zeftronics VR with on board over voltage protection. The output of the alt goest thru the firewall to the bus bar. (NFG). Gage is battery ammeter and I monitor bus voltage via a feature on the Stormscope. Regulator has 800 hours on it, and the alternator is a rebuilt with approx 50 hours. The scenario: Over time, I have noticed two abberations in my plane, I have treated them as unrelated. Here's the setup. Every once in awhile in flight, particularly at high altitudes. I notice a slight noise in the headset that sounds like frying bacon. It is intermittent. I further notice that if I turn on a high load device like a landing light (250W) the noise goes away. So, historically, I have suspected that this has something to do with the VR, but I do nothing about it, as it's intermittent. Additionally, Every once in awhile ATC tells me my KX-155 is totally unreadable. I switch to the UPS GX60 and they say it's better, but not perfect. The King is as old as they get, and it usually has to go into the shop at least every other year, so I really do nothing about it. I'm thinking that perhaps it's getting too hot, so I usually turn it off, and xmit on the GPS comm. Why that's not as clear, I usually rationalize that it's an inferior radio, or antenna, or less power than the King's 10 watts. The scenario worsens. Last month, the 'frying bacon' noise worsened. It was louder in the headset, and loading up the alternator with Pitot heat and landing light lessened the volume but did not erradicate it. I fly legs of 3-5 hours so I have alot of time to listen and wonder. Shutting off the audio panel made the sound go away. Hmmm.....perhaps the PS Engineering unit is starting to go... or perhaps I got some Corrosion X into critical places in antenna wiring during my annual last month...I also had more calls from ATC asking me to switch to another radio than the King. So, I was thinking that the KX-155 needed to go into the shop as did the audio panel, this can't be the voltage regulator. (not so fast, silly boy). Total chaos. Last week, during climb out on a routine 190 mile trip, the noise in the headset was really bad, and my ability to hear radio xmissions was diminished. ATC did not like my radios at all. I was on an IFR plan, but it was VMC so I pressed on. I tried loading up the bus, to get rid of the noise, but this no longer helped. I shut off the audio panel and all this did was make the noise softer. Finally, my eyes alighted on the voltage monitor. It read 11.2 volts! The ammeter showed a slight discharge. No alternator. I pulled the 5A alt field CB and all quieted in the headset. Ah ha! Gotcha you little bugger. A bad somethingorother in the alt circuit. I pressed the field breaker back in and the alt came back on line, voltge came back up to 13.8, the battery was drawing a charge on the ammeter and the noise quieted down, but was not gone. Now is when I really started troubleshooting. Every time I pulled the field breaker, the noise totally died away. I happen to have a spare VR with me (I'm not so organized usually) and the connector is accessible from under the panel. I shut off everything except one radio, pulled the field breaker. I reached under, found the connector and plugged in the new regulator. I reset the field breaker, in eager anticipation of a nice fat charge, quite in the earphones and a charging battery. I was convinced that the problem was the VR. What happened surpriese me: the new regulator lighted the OV light, and popped off line! OK, so a bad alternator I thought, could it be intermittently shorts in the field, diodes, what? The solution. On the ramp, I pulled the side cowling and wiggled the alt terminal connections. The field ring terminal was tight on the post, but the whole post was loose! I wiggled the other post (goes to ground) and it too was loose as well. So much for "Gen-U-Wine FAA repair stations, yellow tags saying Return to Service and PMA's parts." This was a newly overhauled alternator, with approx 50 hours on it over 3 months. I took off the ring terms, tightened down the jam nuts on the terminal posts and reinstalled the field and ground ring terminals respectively. My sceptical self did not really thing that this could be the cause of the entire episode, but my return flight was the quietest I've had in a long time, no complaints from ATC re: the King radio's quality and best of all no frying bacon at all, not a trace. The lesson, FWIW. What started out as a radio annoyance turned out to be a mechanical problem on the alternator. The radio and audio noise, as it turns out, were the best troubleshooting tools at my disposal. Better that than total alternator failure in the goo at night. In the future, I will not take changes in headset noise lightly. It could be trying to tell me something. Art Treff RV-8 Fastback interior work. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:50 AM PST US From: William Mills Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Noise in the headset troubleshooting (long) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: William Mills >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Treff, Arthur" > > >Listers, -----------snip------------- >The lesson, FWIW. >What started out as a radio annoyance turned out to be a mechanical >problem on the alternator. ----------snip------------ >Art Treff >RV-8 Fastback interior work. Art - Nice write-up. It drives home the importance of becoming intimate with a plane by feeling all its parts! I often find that problems with electrical systems are mechanical in nature (not "bad diodes" as we'd jokingly say). Good on ya for finding and fixing this without throwing parts at it. Thank you - Bill Mills RANS Courier in progress SF bay area, Calif. P.S. Our A&P school instructor, Huston "Buck" Choate, would inspect an airplane with the usual flashlight and mirror but emphasized touching everything in sight and giving it a squeeze, tug, jiggle, etc. I'd never seen anything like this but over time I realize he was teaching us a most valuable lesson. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:29 PM PST US From: "Doug Dodson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Noise in the headset troubleshooting (long) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Doug Dodson" Same airplane (1966 M20C), with an InterAv alternator conversion. Worked perfectly for a year then started to get the occasional noise problem just as Arthur did. Similar trouble shooting sequence (but without the spare VR). Got slowly worse over time then my JPI started showing the low voltage conditon, intermittantly and infrequently at first then more frequently. I check all the connections several times. Fix came when one day I decided to just unwrap all the wiring from the harnesses and start checking splices and I discovered that the crimp had gone bad on the ring terminal where the field wire attaches to the alternator. That was the first thing I had checked in previous attempts and I checked it on several occasions. I didn't discover it sooner because all I really checked was that the nut held the terminal on the post well (post was solid). I had done such a good job with the heat shrink that the mechanical connection was pretty good but of course, not THAT good. First good tug it came right out of the crimp. 10 minutes later with a new ring terminial from my bench stock and my ratchet crimpers... problem fixed. Execellent electrics for 3 years and 600 hours now. Douglas L. Dodson, Jr. Glasair II-S FT Flight Test Engineer, CFI-A,I,G -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Treff, Arthur Subject: AeroElectric-List: Noise in the headset troubleshooting (long) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Treff, Arthur" Listers, I wanted to share with you some recent events surrounding troubleshooting 'noisy radio' problems in my 1966 Mooney, just in case this ever happens to you. The electrical system is standard "store bought" with battery on the firewall, 60A PMA'd alternator with external Zeftronics VR with on board over voltage protection. The output of the alt goest thru the firewall to the bus bar. (NFG). Gage is battery ammeter and I monitor bus voltage via a feature on the Stormscope. Regulator has 800 hours on it, and the alternator is a rebuilt with approx 50 hours. The scenario: Over time, I have noticed two abberations in my plane, I have treated them as unrelated. Here's the setup. Every once in awhile in flight, particularly at high altitudes. I notice a slight noise in the headset that sounds like frying bacon. It is intermittent. I further notice that if I turn on a high load device like a landing light (250W) the noise goes away. So, historically, I have suspected that this has something to do with the VR, but I do nothing about it, as it's intermittent. Additionally, Every once in awhile ATC tells me my KX-155 is totally unreadable. I switch to the UPS GX60 and they say it's better, but not perfect. The King is as old as they get, and it usually has to go into the shop at least every other year, so I really do nothing about it. I'm thinking that perhaps it's getting too hot, so I usually turn it off, and xmit on the GPS comm. Why that's not as clear, I usually rationalize that it's an inferior radio, or antenna, or less power than the King's 10 watts. The scenario worsens. Last month, the 'frying bacon' noise worsened. It was louder in the headset, and loading up the alternator with Pitot heat and landing light lessened the volume but did not erradicate it. I fly legs of 3-5 hours so I have alot of time to listen and wonder. Shutting off the audio panel made the sound go away. Hmmm.....perhaps the PS Engineering unit is starting to go... or perhaps I got some Corrosion X into critical places in antenna wiring during my annual last month...I also had more calls from ATC asking me to switch to another radio than the King. So, I was thinking that the KX-155 needed to go into the shop as did the audio panel, this can't be the voltage regulator. (not so fast, silly boy). Total chaos. Last week, during climb out on a routine 190 mile trip, the noise in the headset was really bad, and my ability to hear radio xmissions was diminished. ATC did not like my radios at all. I was on an IFR plan, but it was VMC so I pressed on. I tried loading up the bus, to get rid of the noise, but this no longer helped. I shut off the audio panel and all this did was make the noise softer. Finally, my eyes alighted on the voltage monitor. It read 11.2 volts! The ammeter showed a slight discharge. No alternator. I pulled the 5A alt field CB and all quieted in the headset. Ah ha! Gotcha you little bugger. A bad somethingorother in the alt circuit. I pressed the field breaker back in and the alt came back on line, voltge came back up to 13.8, the battery was drawing a charge on the ammeter and the noise quieted down, but was not gone. Now is when I really started troubleshooting. Every time I pulled the field breaker, the noise totally died away. I happen to have! a spare VR with me (I'm not so organized usually) and the connector is accessible from under the panel. I shut off everything except one radio, pulled the field breaker. I reached under, found the connector and plugged in the new regulator. I reset the field breaker, in eager anticipation of a nice fat charge, quite in the earphones and a charging battery. I was convinced that the problem was the VR. What happened surpriese me: the new regulator lighted the OV light, and popped off line! OK, so a bad alternator I thought, could it be intermittently shorts in the field, diodes, what? The solution. On the ramp, I pulled the side cowling and wiggled the alt terminal connections. The field ring terminal was tight on the post, but the whole post was loose! I wiggled the other post (goes to ground) and it too was loose as well. So much for "Gen-U-Wine FAA repair stations, yellow tags saying Return to Service and PMA's parts." This was a newly overhauled alternator, with approx 50 hours on it over 3 months. I took off the ring terms, tightened down the jam nuts on the terminal posts and reinstalled the field and ground ring terminals respectively. My sceptical self did not really thing that this could be the cause of the entire episode, but my return flight was the quietest I've had in a long time, no complaints from ATC re: the King radio's quality and best of all no frying bacon at all, not a trace. The lesson, FWIW. What started out as a radio annoyance turned out to be a mechanical problem on the alternator. The radio and audio noise, as it turns out, were the best troubleshooting tools at my disposal. Better that than total alternator failure in the goo at night. In the future, I will not take changes in headset noise lightly. It could be trying to tell me something. Art Treff RV-8 Fastback interior work. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:51:30 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: AeroElectric-List: music input jacks --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" Can somebody recommend a decent 1/8" stereo music input jack that can be panel mounted and isolated from ground somehow? I'm just assuming that keeping the audio return isolated from ground is ideal for reducing noise induced in the system. Are there insulating washers available, similar to those used on headset/mic jacks, that can be used on smaller jacks? Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:46 PM PST US From: Charlie & Tupper England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: music input jacks --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England Dan Checkoway wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > >Can somebody recommend a decent 1/8" stereo music input jack that can be >panel mounted and isolated from ground somehow? I'm just assuming that >keeping the audio return isolated from ground is ideal for reducing noise >induced in the system. > >Are there insulating washers available, similar to those used on headset/mic >jacks, that can be used on smaller jacks? > >Thanks in advance, >)_( Dan >RV-7 N714D >http://www.rvproject.com > A Google search for 'miniature phone jack with isolated ground' yielded: Stereo phone jack has isolated ground. Designed for pc-board mounting, the CTP-310 and CTP-312 3.5-mm stereo phone jacks offer optional grounded or isolated bushing and a life expectancy of 5000 mating cycles. The mini-phone jacks can be used for industrial, consumer, and computer multimedia sound cards, as well as other applications requiring audio input and output. Unit price in volume quantities is $0.20. Connect-Tech Products Inc, Carson City, NV. (702) 883-0986. not exactly what you want but a trip to their web site: http://www.connect-tech-products.com/connectors/three_five/three_five_downloads/35mm.pdf might get you what you want. CTP-354W-S1 looks like it would work, with a couple of extra unneeded pins. Switchcraft.com is another good bet, but their web site is being stubborn tonight. Charlie ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:04 PM PST US From: BAKEROCB@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: ACK ELT control wire? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BAKEROCB@aol.com 7/4/2003 Hello Russ Werner and Jerry Kaidor, Below is a copy of your postings a while back on this subject. I am confronted with the same issue with an ACK ELT O1 regarding replacing the telephone style control wire extension. But one issue remains unresolved. Russ says you must do some wire swapping when putting on new connectors and Jerry says the cable works fine as purchased. Can either one of you or both revisit this issue and tell me if I can use a standard 4 wire telephone cable as purchased with connectors already installed or if I'll have to buy connectors, do some wire swapping and crimp on the new connectors? Many thanks. 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/? <> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:15 PM PST US From: "Tom Reading" Subject: AeroElectric-List: alternator --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tom Reading" Looking at the drawings it shows on the b+c the field wire goes from a single terminal on the regulator but two terminals at the alt. I ran a small link between the two then one wire back to the reg. Is this the right way. Also I was wondering with the two alt. system will there be times when I could or should run both of them at the same time? -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of AeroElectric-List Digest Server Subject: AeroElectric-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 07/01/03 * ================================================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================== Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can be also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-List.2 003-07-01.html Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-List.2 003-07-01.txt ================================================ EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================ AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 07/01/03: 13 Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:48 AM - Problem with web page? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 07:45 AM - Re: Problem with web page? (Freddie Freeloader) 3. 08:08 AM - Re: Problem with web page? (Bruce Gray) 4. 08:12 AM - Re: Problem with web page? (Bruce Gray) 5. 08:19 AM - KX-125 problem (Bruce Green) 6. 09:23 AM - Grounding questions (Bob Lee) 7. 12:22 PM - Re: KX-125 problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 02:27 PM - Re: KX-125 problem (Bruce Green) 9. 04:00 PM - Re: KX-125 problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 04:08 PM - Re: KX-125 problem (Matt Prather) 11. 05:01 PM - Re: Grouping wires for firewall penetration (Rick Fogerson) 12. 06:18 PM - Re: Grouping wires for firewall penetration (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 11:51 PM - Team Grumman (Aucountry@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:27 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Problem with web page? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" I had a note from a lister citing problems with reading our web page at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/tools.html Seems that some of the pictures at the top of the page don't display. He sent me a capture of the HTML code his browser sees and indeed, some quotation marks are missing from two of the HTML tags that call the images in question. It would be helpful if folks would check this page and see if any image boxes come up empty. No need to respond to this message if the page displays okay. I would like to receive a DIRECT e-mail if anyone can duplicate our friend's observation. Thanks! Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( and still understand nothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:27 AM PST US From: Freddie Freeloader Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Problem with web page? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Freddie Freeloader Hello Robert, Tuesday, July 1, 2003, 6:47:17 AM, you wrote: RLNI> I had a note from a lister citing problems with reading our RLNI> web page at: RLNI> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/tools.html Yes, the 2 images under the heading "25 Watt, 115 VAC Soldering Iron" appear as broken links. I'm using Win2K and Mozilla 3.1 browser. -- Best regards, Freddie mailto:lists@stevet.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:38 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Problem with web page? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" All images work for me. (Win2kPro and IE6.0) Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Freddie Freeloader Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Problem with web page? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Freddie Freeloader Hello Robert, Tuesday, July 1, 2003, 6:47:17 AM, you wrote: RLNI> I had a note from a lister citing problems with reading our RLNI> web page at: RLNI> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/tools.html Yes, the 2 images under the heading "25 Watt, 115 VAC Soldering Iron" appear as broken links. I'm using Win2K and Mozilla 3.1 browser. -- Best regards, Freddie mailto:lists@stevet.net ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:50 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Problem with web page? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" Additional information. All was fine with my copy of Mozilla 1.4 browser. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Freddie Freeloader Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Problem with web page? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Freddie Freeloader Hello Robert, Tuesday, July 1, 2003, 6:47:17 AM, you wrote: RLNI> I had a note from a lister citing problems with reading our RLNI> web page at: RLNI> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/tools.html Yes, the 2 images under the heading "25 Watt, 115 VAC Soldering Iron" appear as broken links. I'm using Win2K and Mozilla 3.1 browser. -- Best regards, Freddie mailto:lists@stevet.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:23 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: KX-125 problem From: Bruce Green --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green I have a KX-125 and it had worked fine and then suddenly, it was inoperative. Sent it out for repairs and they replaced a diode in the power supply and two transistors in the transmitter for $350. Put it back in and all was well for about an hour but now it seems to have suffered the same fate again. I sent it back to the avionics shop and have not heard what they think yet. Of course I am wondering if there is something about the plane that created this problem with the radio, such as a voltage spike. The transponder and intercom run off of the same circuit and have not failed. I was going to connect a voltmeter and fly around for a while and see what it does. Could a bad regulator cause this problem?? Bruce Green Eagle N110GM The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:34 AM PST US From: "Bob Lee" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grounding questions --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Lee" Bob K, Unfortunately, I already completed wiring my instrument panel before I found your wonderful book "The AeroElectric Connection". I just read the chapter on grounding and am concerned that I might have a problem with ground loops. I've got a couple of questions that require some background to make sense. I used a sheet of .060" 7075 aluminum to build the instrument panel. I have full IFR instruments on the left, radio stack in the center, and engine instruments on the right in the standard locations. I used the panel as a ground for everything mounted there (G3) and then ran a number 2 wire to the battery minus terminal. The firewall is .015 stainless (G2) that is connected to the battery minus terminal with a number 2 wire. Number 2 was selected for these two grounds because the two battery bus connections to the main bus are through 35 amp breakers each. Number 2 will flow 100 amps so it gives me a margin over the 70 amps maximum available The crankcase has a 1 foot long 00 wire run to the battery minus terminal. The two batteries are in a common battery box and their negative terminals are bolted together with a 1/4" bolt. The alternators are PM units with the regulators mounted on the firewall. The firewall and instrument panel are electrically isolated structurally due to composite airframe. From reading The AeroElectric Connection, it's obvious that I need to update my wiring diagram with appropriate ground locations for each component. Before I make the changes I want to make sure I have a good understanding of the grounding requirements. With that said, here are my 3 questions: 1. Will the firewall and instrument panel serve as acceptable G2 and G3 ground busses? (I don't want to rewire all the grounds if it is not necessary) 2. To prevent ground loops should the number 2 wire connections to the battery minus terminal from the instrument panel and firewall be replaced with larger wire (if yes what size do you recommend)? 3. I have fuel transfer pumps nav lights and strobes in the wings, should they be grounded to the firewall to provide the return path to the voltage regulators? If you're a visual type, you can see my wiring diagram at: http://flyboybob.com/kr2/wd0001.htm. It's a seven sheet drawing that comes up on sheet 1 power distribution. Use the pull down at the bottom of the page to select sheet 7, Grounding. Regards, Bob Lee ______________________________ N52BL KR2 Suwanee, GA 30024 91% done only 51% to go! Phone/Fax: 770/844-7501 mailto:bob@flyboybob.com http://flyboybob.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:25 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX-125 problem --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:33 AM 7/1/2003 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green > >I have a KX-125 and it had worked fine and then suddenly, it was >inoperative. Sent it out for repairs and they replaced a diode in the >power supply and two transistors in the transmitter for $350. Put it >back in and all was well for about an hour but now it seems to have >suffered the same fate again. I sent it back to the avionics shop and >have not heard what they think yet. Of course I am wondering if there >is something about the plane that created this problem with the radio, >such as a voltage spike. The transponder and intercom run off of the >same circuit and have not failed. I was going to connect a voltmeter and >fly around for a while and see what it does. > >Could a bad regulator cause this problem?? Sure. Do you have ov protection? Do you have a voltmeter in the airplane? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:27:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX-125 problem From: Bruce Green --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 14:21:12 -0500 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" writes: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > At 10:33 AM 7/1/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green > > > > >I have a KX-125 and it had worked fine and then suddenly, it was > >inoperative. Sent it out for repairs and they replaced a diode in > the > >power supply and two transistors in the transmitter for $350. Put > it > >back in and all was well for about an hour but now it seems to have > >suffered the same fate again. I sent it back to the avionics shop > and > >have not heard what they think yet. Of course I am wondering if > there > >is something about the plane that created this problem with the > radio, > >such as a voltage spike. The transponder and intercom run off of > the > >same circuit and have not failed. I was going to connect a > voltmeter and > >fly around for a while and see what it does. > > > >Could a bad regulator cause this problem?? > > Sure. Do you have ov protection? Do you have a voltmeter in the > airplane? > > Bob . . . > > Bob, I do have over voltage protection, but I have never verified that it is working properly. I do not have a voltmeter, all that I have is an ammeter like in a car, with a 60-0-60 scale. It is what came with the plane and at some point, I plan to replace it with a voltmeter. In my last plane, I bought a davtron unit from B&C that mounted right at the end of the buss bar and I was very happy with that. The only electric devices in the airplane are the KX-125, a KT-76 transponder and a PS Engineering intercom and so far the transponder and intercom have not been affected. I plan to go flying with my handheld and connect my multimeter to the bussbar and see what the output is and if there are any aberations. When I put the battery in, I adjusted the voltmeter to I believe, 13.8 as the battery manufacture recomended. Should I be looking for high voltage excursions or just a generally high voltage?? Thanks for your help, Bruce Green Eagle N110GM The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:00:46 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX-125 problem --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > >Bob, I do have over voltage protection, but I have never verified that it >is working properly. It's a good thing to do. I describe both bench and in-place test procedures in http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/crowbar.pdf > I do not have a voltmeter, all that I have is an >ammeter like in a car, with a 60-0-60 scale. It is what came with the >plane and at some point, I plan to replace it with a voltmeter. In my >last plane, I bought a davtron unit from B&C that mounted right at the >end of the buss bar and I was very happy with that. The voltmeter is a good thing to have . . . better I think than the battery ammeter . . . but either instrument is just a troubleshooting assist. > The only electric >devices in the airplane are the KX-125, a KT-76 transponder and a PS >Engineering intercom and so far the transponder and intercom have not >been affected. I plan to go flying with my handheld and connect my >multimeter to the bussbar and see what the output is and if there are any >aberations. When I put the battery in, I adjusted the voltmeter to I >believe, 13.8 as the battery manufacture recomended. Should I be looking >for high voltage excursions or just a generally high voltage?? Most automotive and aircraft regulators are set at 14.2 volts for better recharge rates . . and while slightly elevated with respect to optimum room temperature floating recharge, it's not particularly injurious to the battery. >Thanks for your help, Put your voltmeter on the bus and fire up the airplane leaving the radios off. See how stable the voltage is with variable loading. Run up to 1800+ rpm and switch everything but radios on. Bus voltage shouldn't wiggle by more than 0.5 volt or so. Your story seems to favor an ov event. I'd sure check out the ov protection to be sure. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX-125 problem From: "Matt Prather" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" Probably a long shot, but I wonder whether the KX-125 is susceptible to damage from a shorted antenna. King seems like a good brand, and so probably wouldn't sell a radio with this kind of problem, but its something else to check. Another point is that some devices may be more likely to be damaged by a bus voltage problem. The KX-125 may have the least overvoltage protect/robust design. When you say that you adjusted the voltmeter to read 13.8, I assume you mean that you were adjusting the voltage regulator so that the voltmeter read 13.8? Good luck, and let everyone know what you find. Regards, Matt- N34RD > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green > > > > On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 14:21:12 -0500 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > writes: >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >> >> >> At 10:33 AM 7/1/2003 -0400, you wrote: >> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green >> >> > >> >I have a KX-125 and it had worked fine and then suddenly, it was >> inoperative. Sent it out for repairs and they replaced a diode in >> the >> >power supply and two transistors in the transmitter for $350. Put >> it >> >back in and all was well for about an hour but now it seems to have >> suffered the same fate again. I sent it back to the avionics shop >> and >> >have not heard what they think yet. Of course I am wondering if >> there >> >is something about the plane that created this problem with the >> radio, >> >such as a voltage spike. The transponder and intercom run off of >> the >> >same circuit and have not failed. I was going to connect a >> voltmeter and >> >fly around for a while and see what it does. >> > >> >Could a bad regulator cause this problem?? >> >> Sure. Do you have ov protection? Do you have a voltmeter in the >> airplane? >> >> Bob . . . >> >> > > Bob, I do have over voltage protection, but I have never verified that > it is working properly. I do not have a voltmeter, all that I have is > an ammeter like in a car, with a 60-0-60 scale. It is what came with > the plane and at some point, I plan to replace it with a voltmeter. In > my last plane, I bought a davtron unit from B&C that mounted right at > the end of the buss bar and I was very happy with that. The only > electric devices in the airplane are the KX-125, a KT-76 transponder and > a PS Engineering intercom and so far the transponder and intercom have > not been affected. I plan to go flying with my handheld and connect my > multimeter to the bussbar and see what the output is and if there are > any aberations. When I put the battery in, I adjusted the voltmeter to > I believe, 13.8 as the battery manufacture recomended. Should I be > looking for high voltage excursions or just a generally high voltage?? > > Thanks for your help, > > Bruce Green > Eagle N110GM > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:18 PM PST US From: "Rick Fogerson" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grouping wires for firewall penetration --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" Hi Bob, 1) Dual batteries, buses, and contactors in the rear. 2) A 2AWG wire connects the two bat cons to the starter con. 3) A 2AWG wire connects the two battery negative terminals to the inst. panel ground bus. 4) An 8AWG wire connects 40amp alternator B lead to 40amp ANL and then to starter con. Rick Fogerson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grouping wires for firewall penetration > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 03:27 PM 6/30/2003 -0600, you wrote: > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" > > > >Do not archive > >Hi Bob, > >I was thinking the starter contactor normally went on the cockpit side of > >the firewall. I'm getting the idea that maybe it should go on the engine > >side. If this is correct or does it matter? > > People have stuck them everywhere. I prefer to use the starter > contactor as a junction point for attaching the alternator b-lead > to the system via ANL current limiter setting right next to the > starter contactor on the engine side of the firewall. Where > is your battery mounted? > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:42 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grouping wires for firewall penetration --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 06:02 PM 7/1/2003 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" > >Hi Bob, >1) Dual batteries, buses, and contactors in the rear. >2) A 2AWG wire connects the two bat cons to the starter con. >3) A 2AWG wire connects the two battery negative terminals to the inst. >panel ground bus. >4) An 8AWG wire connects 40amp alternator B lead to 40amp ANL and then to >starter con. >Rick Fogerson Okay. So it's about a wash as to where you put the starter contactor. If inside, then you have starter and b-leads coming through the firewall. If outside on firewall, you have battery feeder to the starter contactor and main-bus feeds coming through the firewall. Either way it's two fat wires. So if you have it mounted inside already, I wouldn't move it. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:14 PM PST US From: Aucountry@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Team Grumman --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com Matt, how and when can I start enlisting members into TeamGrumman? The rules you post make a lot more sense than the GG rules. Gary